, that also allows it to be downloaded)
< 1291930076 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either way should do.
< 1291930110 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, opinion on DNSSEC?
< 1291930118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no opinion.
< 1291930125 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you don't think it is bloated?
< 1291930130 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am confused.
< 1291930134 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I'd rather fix the scheduling.
< 1291930138 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by this behaviour
< 1291930148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/8c/cgen.c Entire 386 code generator for the Plan 9 compiler.
< 1291930160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I haven't even looked at it since it sounds incredibly boring.
< 1291930162 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, long
< 1291930163 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What scheduling?
< 1291930171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Long?
< 1291930174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'd like to see gcc's.
< 1291930177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it's probably 70 files.
< 1291930234 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, consider the following scenario: you wan to print something, input, print something else, then print whatever was input.
< 1291930249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/vc/cgen.c The much shorter code generator for big-endian MIPS.
< 1291930249 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... DNSSEC stands for "Domain Name System Security Extensions", hm SEC. I spot either a backronym or someone designing with the the acronym in mind
< 1291930260 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lazy K's non-strict semantics cause the two constant outputs to be performed before the input.
< 1291930278 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, still the usual mess, typical of well written C code
< 1291930294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Code generation is a mess; there are nicer programs in the tree.
< 1291930298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nicer than gcc and llvm, I'll bet.
< 1291930298 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OK, then fix that problem.
< 1291930303 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, C is ugly.
< 1291930312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not Plan 9 C.
< 1291930313 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, there are better and worse C code examples
< 1291930319 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, compared to haskell yes it is ugly
< 1291930323 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not if it is neatly printed using Enhanced CWEB.
< 1291930331 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, aaaaargh
< 1291930335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not at what Plan 9 is doing.
< 1291930341 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like sgeo and activeworlds
< 1291930359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then we are doing the wrong thing :P
< 1291930400 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But I still suggest you correct the page to allow downloading (there are two ways to do so), as well.
< 1291930474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The page isn't broken.
< 1291930480 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what page
< 1291931260 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4255
< 1291931264 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks cool
< 1291931407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Heh.
< 1291931430 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, proposed though
< 1291931505 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, we can only be happy that the guys who invented stuff like DNSSEC haven't made DRM schemes. DNSSEC seems utterly competently made
< 1291931699 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@75-174-217-96.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291931759 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@128.198.97.220 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291932204 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, ping.
< 1291932253 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, problems?
< 1291932272 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, asking if he's come to a decision on MoveCraft.
< 1291932294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://interfacelab.com/objective-c-memory-management-for-lazy-people/ "whine whine i'm hardcore i don't need a gc"
< 1291932360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The metatree is now a meta4.
< 1291932370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait.
< 1291932371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still a meta3.
< 1291932384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But hey, I never meta3 I didn't like.
< 1291932395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr
< 1291932400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much horizontal clearance does a tree need
< 1291932488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Are you coming back on today?
< 1291932690 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1291932716 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Pong.
< 1291932773 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, have you come to a decision re MoveCraft?
< 1291932871 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, the classic hardcore nerd.
< 1291932876 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't looked at it yet, no.
< 1291932884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wut?
< 1291932886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1291932908 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a tree built out of metatrees?
< 1291932929 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, a tree built out of those^?
< 1291932939 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySmYyAqV8jM
< 1291932940 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this
< 1291932988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: do you play minecraft? i can only explain it if you do
< 1291933017 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, it's a tree planted on top of a tree. Ignore elliott.
< 1291933067 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :metatree
< 1291933073 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a rad name
< 1291933078 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i don't suppose minecraft yet has enough vertical voxels to accomodate a tree built of trees built of trees built of trees
< 1291933092 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, it does nott.
< 1291933094 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not
< 1291933132 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: zzo38
< 1291933170 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it might could manage 1 less meta there by digging down sufficiently far and limiting how many sub-trees each tree has suitably
< 1291933172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's harder than that
< 1291933176 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1291933177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to do surgery after it grows
< 1291933189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I forget, what's the common way to get "jz" and friends all knowing after you do a mov?
< 1291933192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test foo, foo?
< 1291933207 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the usual one.
< 1291933219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that work if foo is [di+N] for constant N? :P
< 1291933294 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you can have two mem arguments in test, but in that case the other operand of mov should've been a register you could test.
< 1291933437 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: i don't suppose minecraft yet has enough vertical voxels to accomodate a tree built of trees built of trees built of trees <-- do you mean the height from top to bottom of map in blocks?
< 1291933438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Constant actually :P
< 1291933442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could do test const, const.
< 1291933451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, wait.
< 1291933453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just precompute the result.
< 1291933459 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make lisp using redstone logic
< 1291933466 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case you should do it compile-time, yes.
< 1291933476 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, assemble-time.
< 1291933480 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: I forget, what's the common way to get "jz" and friends all knowing after you do a mov? <-- somehow I read that as "jwz and [his] friends"
< 1291933482 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1291933507 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did spend a moment thinking "who's jz?" too.
< 1291933588 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1291933660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway my system now does dnssec. Very nice
< 1291933672 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to set flags based on what's at di+N, you could "cmp [di+N], 0"; I don't know offhand if there's a variant that doesn't involve a silly immediate value 0.
< 1291933702 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, if you assembler supports macros you could make one
< 1291933708 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course, that is cheating)
< 1291933739 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but for a dword that's a four-byte immediate.
< 1291933794 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why are you using asm if you care for efficiency.. Oh wait
< 1291933828 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And in fact you'd need to indicate the size there since there's no register involved, and Intel syntax doesn't put in the suffixes.)
< 1291933862 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so how do you indicate the size with intel syntax?
< 1291933884 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember
< 1291933889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmp dword [di+N], 0
< 1291933894 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1291933928 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how verbose
< 1291933935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1291933940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stfu
< 1291933949 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it *is* shorter with gas :P
< 1291933950 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think the suffixes take up more bytes on average.
< 1291933963 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, maybe
< 1291933963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1291934035 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmpl $0, N(%di) there?
< 1291934048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew
< 1291934156 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you are on MC, but what are you doing
< 1291934165 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, seems quite sensible
< 1291934198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn;'6
< 1291934210 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's not do the same syntax discussion again.
< 1291934225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's
< 1291934232 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to go grepping my examples with the phone, anyway.
< 1291934443 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291934511 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, down?
< 1291934638 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very down
< 1291934641 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, what is going on?
< 1291934790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does anything have to be going on
< 1291934871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What's the maximum displacement?
< 1291934873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it signed 8 bit?
< 1291934990 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1291934997 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32, I think.
< 1291935003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what, +32? :)
< 1291935004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :signed 32-bit, okay.
< 1291935015 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what are you doing?
< 1291935016 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you stay within 8, the encoding is shorter.
< 1291935020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: hm?
< 1291935040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you know how you tried to make the dna maze source unconventionally formatted to irritate people?
< 1291935042 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Asleep now.)
< 1291935134 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, see comment about authcraft in server chat
< 1291935582 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1291935591 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.114.29.124 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291935596 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-)
< 1291935618 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291935663 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :请点我到英吉利海峡
< 1291935667 0 :hkrliu!~hkrliu@121.61.150.92 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291935713 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1291935978 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho
< 1291936110 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he
< 1291936181 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1291937070 0 :Goosey!~goose124@99-60-156-25.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291937230 0 :hkrliu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1291937343 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.com/Unicorn-Castle-T-Shirt-Cotton-Sleeve/dp/B0037TPED4/ref=pd_sbs_a_2 // best comment ever: Here's the life-changing part: As soon as I started wearing it, people started believing I was gay. No more insisting on my part - the shirt says it all.
< 1291937521 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if I'm gay, I should definitely get that shirt.
< 1291937648 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To quote another review: "Gay is the new black"
< 1291937698 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Customers Who Viewed This Item Also Viewed
< 1291937699 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Mountain Three Wolf Moon Short Sleeve Tee by The Mountain
< 1291937708 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surprising!
< 1291937771 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I get a Three Perry-the-Platypus Moon Short Sleeve Tee?
< 1291938052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1291938152 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1291938168 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@128.198.97.57 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291938193 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314
< 1291938295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor:     *  Receive 1 Ugly Christmas Sweater Fleece free when you purchase $100.00 or more of Qualifying Items offered by Bison Lake Trading Company. Enter code Q7WVSL9K at checkout. Here's how (restrictions apply)
< 1291938299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WORST FLEECE EVER
< 1291938338 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It is pretty ugly :P
< 1291938349 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, speaking of [SUPERLATIVE] [NOUN] EVER:
< 1291938357 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you are the BEST JAZZ MUSICIAN EVER
< 1291938364 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems unlikely :P
< 1291938407 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, you are a PRETTY GOOD JAZZ MUSICIAN?
< 1291938416 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am no kind of jazz musician ...
< 1291938432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think tswett means Gregor's friend who is indistinguishable from him.
< 1291938436 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods solemnly.

< 1291938439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is my compiler trying to compile NULL and why is it working.
< 1291938449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is it actually...
< 1291938451 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're referring to Eric Allen, then he most assuredly is, y es.
< 1291938451 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yes
< 1291938467 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is NULL a programming language, a specific string, or... something else?
< 1291938638 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(void*)0
< 1291938644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: NULL is NULL :P
< 1291938663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Actually it can be (T *)0 for any T, no?
< 1291938674 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, a null pointer.
< 1291938679 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it mean to compile a pointer?
< 1291938699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: To feed the NULL pointer to my compilation procedure.
< 1291938699 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not sure
< 1291938708 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods.

< 1291938710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it actually is, but...
< 1291938775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: In C and C++ programming, two null pointers are guaranteed to compare equal; ANSI C guarantees that any null pointer will be equal to 0 in a comparison with an integer type; furthermore the macro NULL is defined as a null pointer constant, that is value 0 (either as an integer type or converted to a pointer to void), so a null pointer will compare equal to NULL.
< 1291938786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: So NULL can actually be #define NULL (char)0 :)
< 1291938835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what
< 1291938838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, perhaps my parser is broken.
< 1291938843 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night
< 1291939020 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what compiler?
< 1291939179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: This one.
< 1291939292 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one
< 1291939307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: This one.
< 1291939335 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1291939607 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't see any compilers here
< 1291940036 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghh
< 1291940131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSER INSTRUCTION
< 1291940269 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1291940668 0 :terry123!~xiang@183.16.126.108 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291940888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: ./foo: cannot execute binary file
< 1291940890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a new one.
< 1291941045 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1291941063 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-46-249.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291941224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hereby present The World's Worst Code Formatting Style, revision 1:
< 1291941232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/hShh
< 1291941260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there are rules involved.
< 1291941262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Horrible rules.
< 1291941274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :&c and &d should be "& c" and "& d" there.
< 1291941289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1291941537 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One could immediately spot "optimizations". :-)
< 1291941667 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that :F
< 1291941690 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope that elliott isn;t trying to write another C compiler
< 1291941887 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1291942628 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1291942668 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-32-81.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291942686 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1291942766 0 :terry123!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1291942841 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z̷̰͙͚̫ͮ̐͝a̢̳̹̪͂̊̇̔̃͛̕͜ḷ̷̡̘̙̝̠̩͇̈́͆͢ǧ̅͏̹̮̟̰͇̝ő̱͚̠̗̠̖̣ͯ̀̀͠ͅ,̢͚̪̯͍̰̟̠̗̎ͪͧ̅ ͙̝̞̬̘͈̫̐͊̏̀ͧ̐͌a̡̖̪̻͕̯̅ͬ͋́̾͘ǹ̳̤ͧ́̀ͪ̍ͦͭ͘̕͜y̸͕̙͈̣̣̥̰͎ͩ̏ͦ̈́̓̌ͧo̶̮̼̫ͧ̐̍̃n̡̝̦̭̰͉̳͎͓̄̒ͩ̎ͪ̄͘͘ĕ̫̲̺ͤ?̥̥͇̦̻̗̟ͫ͒̃͑ͤ͋
< 1291943038 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who
< 1291943048 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is that
< 1291943074 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zatgo?
< 1291943097 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Zalgo. Zalgo is to invoke the hive-mind representing chaos.
< 1291943107 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invoking the feeling of chaos.
< 1291943111 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With out order.
< 1291943142 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T̜̙̙͎̹̾͋ͩ̾͒ͤ̾ͅȟͬ̅e̢͚̣̩̩ͩͯ̌ͅ ҉N̈̾̚ez͖͍̬̥̣͙ͨ̾̌̔̔̇p̯͚eͯ͏̼̤̼r̾ͯ̕d̸̲̗̺i̹̳̹͉̙̳ͫ̃̽ͮ̽̅ͭa̡̺̻͙͕͕͇͕ͦn̴͓̜͌̊̅̔̊̒̓ ̛̜̤̭̊ͭh̵̟̮͔̘̬̜ͪi͎͊̑v̢͖͚̖͖͈̈́̿̀̽̏e̖̝̙̱̗͎̦͌̏̎̅̚-̟̹̠ͬͥ̈m̩̞͔͖̰̥̉̄̅ͫͬ́iͩ́ͫ̏͊̚n͋ͨͭ͞ḏ̩̰̦̫͇ ̨̹̫ͯ̔ͣͪo̡̮͈f͓̫͖̣̭ͩ͗̓ͧ̍̏̄ ̤̩̯̰̞̎͢c̲͓̯͞h̳̗̳̜̲͚ͤͥa̜͊o̳̣̭̐͂ͅs̎̒̐̋ͪ
< 1291943143 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̨̖͙͖̹̞̗̈́ͨ.̛̟̦̙̙͎̮̉͑̈́ ̳̘̫̳Ž̧̬͎̝ͤ̿͆̋a̹̦l̢͔̟̜̈̀͐g̩̩̣̲͍͈ͯ̈͐ͦ̐̽̽ò̥͖.̍ͤ̽̍҉̙̭̰̼̞̩ ̸̂
< 1291943156 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ḩ̶̡̯̮̠̙͙̹ͤ͊͂ͅe͍͖̅ͬͪ̏ͅ ̶̞̬̬̪̳̄͆̍͌̈́͘w̸̷̩͓̠̌̇ͯh͈͙̰͈̫̃̿̒ͭ͆ͪͣ̀͘͢ȍ̺͈̞̥̺̝͖ͯͮ͞ ̡̮̃͠Ẅ̮̖̝̊̀͜ͅá͖̻̞̬̖̮̾͒̎͂̔͠i̸̤͉̻̣ͮͤ̆ͥͭ̾̀t̸ͭ͋͗̍͋̔ͩ҉͔̣ş̷͖̝ͤ̑̈́̒͋̑̀ͣ̔ ͚͖̻͙̲̂ͦ͌ͤ̄͗B̝̫̻̬͈̦̲̮̭͊ͮ̍̂̏ͯ̇ͯe̼̺̠͍͚̤̫͖̊ͩ̒̋h̦͉ͤi̻͈͉̱̭̠̲ͪͪ̈́̀̊̐̑̈̀͡n͈̥͔̤̫̜ͮ̋͗d̡̼̖͕̠̙̫̬̗̂ ̢͈̜̺͉ͥ͌ͬ̀̆͑̔͠T̿ͦ
< 1291943156 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̧̗̭̺͗̑ͥ̾͞h̷̨̤ͩ͂ͥ͒̈̿eͥ̅͗̽͛̂ͦ҉̗̝͎͖͚̩͍̹̜͜ ̔ͫ̏ͮ͗ͩ̚҉͈̝W̵̛̱̩͙̦̲̗͔̳̏̀͡a̸̯̣͍̽ͮ̔͒̅͑ͥͥ͐l̸̴̗̉̒̌̐̐͋͐̒͢ḽ̗͉̻̠̞͉͙ͫ̒͝.ͮ͐͏̴̗̺̟͖̣͎̮
< 1291943165 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z̶̵̑̋̑̐͊̂̓̽ͨ̃͏͕͍̖̘̱̻͙̗̺̗̠͙̥Ą̴̯̺̟̭̅ͩͣ͑͘͝L͚̙͖̳̂̌̑̈́͌ͪ̿ͦ͘̕ͅĢ̷̛̹̙̖̩̻͚͚̳̳̬͇̮̬̰̬̒̑̑͗͗͆͛ͮͯ͑ͩ͜͝Ö̓̃̍ͬ̏̈́͋̉ͨ̓̂̔̐̐҉̴̨̞̟̪͈̬̝̞̬̱͠!̍ͭ̇͊̈̎̿ͬ͗ͥ̅̓̓̿̆̈́ͯͦ̈́̀͞҉̥̹̮͓̻
< 1291943240 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh this creepypasta
< 1291943242 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1291943350 0 :augur!~augur@96.231.228.232 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291943708 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1291943799 0 :nooga_!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291943802 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :h3h
< 1291943843 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i couldn't screen -x the existing irssi session because it was on pts/0
< 1291943861 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll do it.
< 1291943978 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1291944787 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1291944808 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-32-81.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291944915 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh
< 1291944918 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screen is stoopid
< 1291945038 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as putty
< 1291945041 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and windows
< 1291945306 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291945329 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1291947042 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-36-248.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291947254 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291947584 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1291948006 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like your suggestions about this D&D class http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/options/Patamagician.c
< 1291948062 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291948849 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like Null Metamagic?
< 1291949516 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1291949594 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291952553 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even get it
< 1291952567 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No one gets it.
< 1291952603 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also don't get why this channel is fucking up in my buffer...the last line printed stays six lines up :(
< 1291952611 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, XChat?
< 1291952615 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-D
< 1291952618 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi
< 1291952622 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: What program? Do other channels do that?
< 1291952623 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I'm betting it's because I ZALGO'D YOU
< 1291952626 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION blames ZALGO :D

< 1291952635 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just this one
< 1291952640 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's not happening in my irssi
< 1291952652 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1291952653 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@209.59.220.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291952654 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZALGO?
< 1291952656 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the terminal option is misconfigured?
< 1291952658 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: try pressing ^L ?
< 1291952670 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't fix it
< 1291952675 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i need a new window
< 1291952679 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that unicode noise Gregor pasted
< 1291952691 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It had no detrimental effect on my clien
< 1291952691 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's a meme)
< 1291952692 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Za̷l̴g͞o is̀ ̨to̵ ̶ín͞v̶ok͡e ҉the̕ h͠i̛v̸e-͝m͞i̴n͡d͟ ͘re̛p̶r̵e̡śen͟t͞ìng ch̢a͘ơs.
< 1291952694 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :client
< 1291952705 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hive-mind?
< 1291952726 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I͎̖͝n̨͔͙̪̹̰͎͎v͔̥̖̝̺͡o̱̦̳k͍̲̱̺ͅi̭̲͙͓̗̥n̟͖͎̱͓̯g̮̹̼̘͇̹ ̟̟͚̻̱̝͎th̰͓͓̞̟e̺ ̷̙̻̟̮͚fe̶el̟̼̹̀ị͖̮̯̞n̬ͅͅg̟̼͎̳̩̠͘ ͔̠o̙͓̳f̻̜̪͖̻̙ ̲͕c̢̣̪̩̣̺͕h̪̮̬̙̥a͕͈̱̻̬̹̦o̯̺̬̼̟s̗͖̦̠̣̦.̞̲́ ͔̱͈̭̠̟W̕i҉̘̖t̴̳̪ͅh̝̱̬̭͜ ͕̮o̮͍͎̭̥͉͡ut͙̟ ̼͈͖̫͠o̢̼r̪͙̝͢d͖̮̩ͅe̡̳̩̣͕͙r̗̣̜̝͎͜.̪͕̤̜͞ͅ
< 1291952727 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zalgo is to invoke the hive-mind representing chaos
< 1291952732 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: nah, that doesn't do anything.  what appears to be happening is that somehow the window got the wrong offset for when to start displaying
< 1291952738 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION makes a new window

< 1291952738 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just see the words with squares overlapping some letters
< 1291952739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it only makes sense in a lovecraftian way
< 1291952740 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1291952751 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@209.59.220.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291952761 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see mostly boxes
< 1291952762 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okiedoke
< 1291952768 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the letters are clear enough
< 1291952785 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then your Unicode support S̷̨͈̼̖͈̈́̓ͥ͋̈̑Ų̷̠̹͓͎̱̰͉̮̠̻̮̭͓͌̉ͫ̓̆̿͛̀̐̓̿ͭ̄̍ͤͅC̓̔̔́ͫ͌̾͘͟͏̶̰̤̺̮̕ͅK̵̴͉̞̰̟̣͈̬͔̗̟̐̎ͯͣ͊̐̇͊ͮ̓ͥ͒ͯ̓̓̈́̽͋̚S̴͌̾̊̽͂͛͂͂ͦͧ̈́̽̒͌͒̋̚҉̞̯͎̝͓̥̱̤̹̙̻̦̘̯͓͟
< 1291952786 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is my favorite time of day in this channel
< 1291952803 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you is silly
< 1291952806 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1291952807 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any suggestions about the 'Patamagician class?
< 1291952816 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: does it really need a '?
< 1291952821 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: If you don't give me WebSplat suggestions, I'll just have to make it zalgofy things you jump on!
< 1291952829 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it's traditional!
< 1291952837 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ... not bad.  go for it!
< 1291952837 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: That is part of the name it has a apostrophe
< 1291952853 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Zalgo (all ED links should be assumed NSFW)
< 1291952894 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what the hell is a null metamagic?  why would you want one?
< 1291952972 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone smile
< 1291952975 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1291952984 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::E
< 1291952995 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1291953017 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3:
< 1291953023 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D̷̢̼̮͍̫͇̣̹̗̥͍͕̺͆̆̅̇ͭ̇̿ͣ͂ͭ̿̀͜͟͠ͅ
< 1291953044 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor did you just write something
< 1291953053 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes? :P
< 1291953067 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it was you that broke my window
< 1291953074 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you better not have done it this time
< 1291953110 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-D
< 1291953118 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOVE THE ZALGO
< 1291953127 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You said it wasn't the Zalgo :P )
< 1291953151 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel needs an admin bot to auto-punt anyone that uses the RTL unicode modifier...
< 1291953184 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tests

< 1291953209 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it broke anything this time
< 1291953227 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait, it added and extra blank line
< 1291953238 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1291953241 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@209.59.220.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291953274 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i could write a script that autokilled those particular characters
< 1291953288 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before they reach the buffer
< 1291953296 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: The purpose of a null metamagic is mostly for use with 'patamagic.
< 1291953304 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there might be other uses as well.
< 1291953331 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's purpose is to what?  occupy a slot?
< 1291953333 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any suggestions for the auxiliary tables, or any 'patamagic feats?
< 1291953349 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: So that you can apply a 'patamagic to it.
< 1291953359 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1291953360 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_v._$124,700 Such bullshit.
< 1291953369 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is USA v. $124,700.
< 1291953385 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, in full: United States of America v. $124,700 in U.S. Currency
< 1291953411 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: body table: one arm shrinks five inches and the other grows five inches :P
< 1291953481 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. If you have more than two arms, select two at random. If you have only one, select shrink/grow at random. If you have none, reroll.
< 1291953504 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the US *actually sued* money.
< 1291953514 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know you are allowed to sue money
< 1291953529 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The US can.
< 1291953575 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: They sue the currency to do asset forfeiture, without either just compensation or convicting anyone of a crime.
< 1291953619 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything else for the auxiliary tables? I should put twenty or one hundred choices per table, I think.
< 1291953658 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it allowed to sue the sun?
< 1291953678 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the US could sue the sun to claim it.
< 1291953704 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that would be against a space treaty, i believe
< 1291953719 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy crap pikhq.  that's BS.  that's practically spitting in the face of the fourth amendment
< 1291953726 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The US handling of treaties is that they are ordinary law.
< 1291953734 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: And as such the courts can overrule them just fine.
< 1291953750 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: In short, the US says "FUCK YOU, I WANT TYRANNY".
< 1291953753 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you find anything wrong with this 'Patamagician class? Any ideas for 'patamagic feats that can be written?
< 1291953762 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Yeah.
< 1291953796 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the only thing i find wrong with it is that i don't understand it
< 1291953828 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: What parts do you not understand? Maybe I can clarify it?
< 1291953831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, *anyone* can directly sue an item in order to attempt to claim it.
< 1291953855 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it allowed to sue yourself?
< 1291953858 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See: R.M.S. Titanic, Inc. v. The Wrecked and Abandoned Vessel, R.M.S. Titanic
< 1291953864 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, really)
< 1291953873 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did they win it?
< 1291953879 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it allowed to sue things which do not exist?
< 1291953914 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think not.  cases X vs. God tend to get thrown out.
< 1291953939 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1291953948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: No.
< 1291953962 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: explain what that big level table is about (i don't play, so i have no idea)
< 1291953977 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: does anyone have a claim to it?
< 1291953980 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That "R.M.S. Titanic" case is not against itself.
< 1291953997 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: No.
< 1291954009 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, well, i suppose that's for the best
< 1291954014 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: The level table describes how many spells you get at each experience level
< 1291954015 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: It was merely shown that R.M.S. Titanic, Inc. did not have a valid claim.
< 1291954041 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: spells per slot?
< 1291954049 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: No, spell slots per day.
< 1291954064 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: only one kind of spell can occupy a slot at a time?
< 1291954073 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Yes.
< 1291954077 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1291954098 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 'patamagic feats ... let you use prepared magic spontaneously and vice versa?
< 1291954189 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: No. 'Patamagic feats are effects applied to metamagic feats (like metamagic feats are effects applied to spells), but 'patamagic is applied spontaneously to a prepared spell, and you can spontaneously cast a spell from a spontaneous slot which has been prepared with a 'patamagic feat.
< 1291954217 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1291954232 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's an example of a 'patamagic feat?
< 1291954239 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also spontaneously cast a spell with a spontaneous slot even if it has not been prepared with 'patamagic.
< 1291954275 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I have none yet, but I guess one possibility is one which allows you to use a metamagic feat by spending 'patamagic points instead of adjusting the spell level.
< 1291954299 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another could be that the metamagic affects the spell during even numbered rounds of the spell's duration only.
< 1291954386 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or...the metamagic affects the last spell cast, and history is rewritten to account for the change?
< 1291954432 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: No. Metamagic affects the spell you are currently casting.
< 1291954455 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 'patamagic only affects a metamagic you have applied to a spell you are casting.
< 1291954457 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that won't work.
< 1291954464 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, but why couldn't your 'patamagic feat make the metamagic travel back in time? :D
< 1291954535 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i evil for even suggesting it?
< 1291954552 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Perhaps that might be a possibility. But the metamagic still has to apply to a spell you are currently casting.
< 1291954561 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making a mistake is not the same thing as being evil.
< 1291954655 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i'm suggesting that you first apply the metamagic to the spell you are casting, and then you do the 'patamagic feat, and it switches the metamagic from the spell you are casting to the previous spell, if it applies to that spell
< 1291954688 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Ah! That could work, I think.
< 1291954904 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(My character in current D&D game is ettercap and my brother's character is human. Next time my character I think I should want to be 'patamagician class, and my brother's character is ninja.)
< 1291955281 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can look at some of the other spells and feats I wrote too, if you want to (they are in the same directory).
< 1291955384 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7eREddMjt4 this is going to take forever to happen, but if it ever does...wooooo!
< 1291955494 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is that video about?
< 1291955555 0 :Pupuser402-1!~puppy@61.187.179.78 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291955746 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a new MMO in development
< 1291955749 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, if the target asks
< 1291955763 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :large scale procedurally generated universe
< 1291955766 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why did Bodhidharma come to China from India?" and the manifester answers That oak tree in the garden" those words are understandable
< 1291956016 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1291956041 0 :Pupuser402-1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1291956041 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also do you have any comments about the esolang called TNTNT?
< 1291956133 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1291956149 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you watch the videos?
< 1291956289 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: No. Do you have a transcript of the videos? And then I can watch the transcript. Or a Ogg Theora video I can also watch (but I prefer a transcript).
< 1291956369 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by transcript?
< 1291956415 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a text transcript of the things the video is about.
< 1291956422 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1291956439 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would just leave you wishing you had seen the video
< 1291956452 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is a transcript of everything that is said in the videos:
< 1291956457 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\
< 1291956478 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it is a tech demo
< 1291956483 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about pretty graphics
< 1291956657 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I submitted the only deterministic solution to the "123" problem on anarchy golf.
< 1291956695 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the problem again?
< 1291956720 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program is run three times. No input. The first time, output "1", the second time, output "2", the third time, output "3".
< 1291956757 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soo...it's "find a way to save state between runs"?
< 1291956793 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Actually there is another later problem which involves saving state between runs.
< 1291956840 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no way to do 123 without finding a way to preserve some state...
< 1291956847 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your solush?
< 1291956849 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the other solutions to the "123" problem use the process ID or random numbers.
< 1291956864 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My solution (in Bash and Zsh) is:     ls>>*;wc -l<*
< 1291956884 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is shorter than the nondeterministic solutions in Bash.
< 1291956952 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please note that with most programming languages available (including Bash and Zsh), your program is the only file in the directory, initially.
< 1291956965 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, no i see it
< 1291957013 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, you'd get some other numbers :P
< 1291957022 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1291957058 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello coppro
< 1291957070 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Are you trying to make a report about the IRC clients used by people in this channel?
< 1291957071 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi
< 1291957076 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No. I should.
< 1291957090 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even better
< 1291957096 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should do like a chart of the top N freenode channels
< 1291957161 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the top N channels?  i can't even begin to guess
< 1291958249 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Maybe you can also make a report about timezones and cloaks.
< 1291958301 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, do you know what random number algorithm would be suitable for TeXnicard?
< 1291958366 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(One possibility is the same one used in METAFONT, so that I can reference it in the bibliography.)
< 1291958466 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would that one be suitable? Or would a different one do better?
< 1291958554 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sshc's VERSION response says "mIRC version something"
< 1291960566 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
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< 1291960569 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1291960569 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
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< 1291960831 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@209.59.220.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-36-248.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-32-81.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :nooga_!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :Goosey!~goose124@99-60-156-25.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181142190.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :tswett!~Warrigal@arch06.cis.gvsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-239-57.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:32ae:1:4261:86ff:fe96:fca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-64-85.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :aloril!~aloril@84.249.126.153 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :iamcal!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :Leonidas!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :jix!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :yiyus_!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :mycroftiv!~ircguy@h69-128-47-242.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :fxkr!~fxkr@unaffiliated/fxkr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.251.165.38 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!~user@2002:5870:32ae::1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291960831 0 :yiyus!~124271242@67.202.106.57 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291962987 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is anyone on, today?
< 1291963681 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1291965164 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291965349 0 :Zuu_!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291965371 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1291965387 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1291966141 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-8-64.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291966781 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1291967352 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291967518 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1291967545 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291967549 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1291967620 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1291967999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1291968000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291970161 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if the French translation of Star Wars uses "Ceci n'est pas une lune"...
< 1291970453 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1291970467 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1291970644 0 :MigoMipo!~John@62.119.155.253 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291971608 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that makes for a funny t-shirt text though
< 1291971961 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1291971979 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291972799 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ce n'est pas une lune." in the French subtitles.
< 1291973678 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1291975887 0 :nopseudoidea!~nopseudoi@85-168-235-235.rev.numericable.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291976023 0 :atrapado!~rodrigo@193.144.79.241 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291979851 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, close but not close enough
< 1291980326 0 :nopseudoidea!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quitte
< 1291981224 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1291981710 0 :nopseudoidea!~nopseudoi@85-168-235-235.rev.numericable.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291981749 0 :nopseudoidea!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1291983006 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291983190 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1291984915 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291985602 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291985610 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291985819 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1291985869 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291985984 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Abandonando
< 1291986439 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291986591 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1291986694 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291986802 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b73ee.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291986815 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291986887 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-12-141.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291987355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1291987379 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291987382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:46:47  Do you have any suggestions about the 'Patamagician class?
< 1291987385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the p is lowercase in 'pata
< 1291987447 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It is a title, though?
< 1291987452 0 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.89.201 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291987453 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1291987455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the ' is uppercase
< 1291987476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh, it seems that the P is capital only at the beginning of a sentence or in a name, like brainfuck
< 1291987553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: er, in a title
< 1291987569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's 'Patamagician in titles or at the start of sentences, 'patamagician everywhere else
< 1291987591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:04:18  See: R.M.S. Titanic, Inc. v. The Wrecked and Abandoned Vessel, R.M.S. Titanic
< 1291987591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:04:24  (yes, really)
< 1291987593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :album name.
< 1291987599 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291987617 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The name of the class is a title.
< 1291987792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hi
< 1291987813 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, you should generate a new map. the last one is quite old
< 1291987958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:59:21  what are the top N channels?  i can't even begin to guess
< 1291987962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ubuntu, #gentoo is on there somewhere
< 1291987964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#wikipedia
< 1291987973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try /list in a fancy client that can sort /list
< 1291987973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s
< 1291988044 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ##linux is high too
< 1291988045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1291988052 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also uh, /list will take ages
< 1291988097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not that long, actually
< 1291988102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a few thousand lines :)
< 1291988116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xchat just displays it raw though, you'd have to | sort -n and the like
< 1291988129 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291988130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* End of /LIST
< 1291988132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1291988185 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought http://irc.netsplit.de/ had a sortable channel list, but apparently not. They produce an across-networks top-100 channel list, and they can list freenode's channels (paginated into 950 pages of 10), but they don't have a per-network top-channels page.
< 1291988196 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or if they do, I can't find it.)
< 1291988223 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, now it went sorted-by-user-count.
< 1291988228 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what I did, exactly.
< 1291988252 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://irc.netsplit.de/channels/?net=freenode in that case, maybe. They strip one # off the name there.
< 1291988260 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1291988261 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1291988285 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So #ubuntu (1407 users), then #debian, #gentoo, #archlinux, #python, #git, #jquery, ##c++, #perl, #haskell.
< 1291988297 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but didn't debian move to oftc?
< 1291988308 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and #debian redirect to ##debian iirc?
< 1291988320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian are still on freenode, but they're on oftc too.
< 1291988322 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291988325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1291988328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's ##debian now
< 1291988336 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why is #debian so large?
< 1291988344 0 :nooga_!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291988345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it redirects
< 1291988349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it used to be #debian
< 1291988356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the netsplit.de system still knows it as #debian
< 1291988360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one presumes
< 1291988388 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1291988408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, ##c is too high up that list for comfort
< 1291988411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horrible channel
< 1291988429 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it's our departmental christmas party now, I think I should be out there. ->
< 1291988458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION plots ways to overthrow ##c

< 1291988461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nukes?
< 1291988462 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I need to know which sea you plan to use for the glass cube, because I need to find one for something I planned. Need to be large (but not nearly as large, something like 70x50 is enough for me)
< 1291988478 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, thus I would rather not build where you will be building
< 1291988496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Um, find a sea that isn't very close to nice, mountainous land, and that ideally doesn't have a perfect 128x128 block somewhere in it. :p
< 1291988507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you can go further from spawn that would work too.
< 1291988532 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well which one. I want to be reasonably close to spawn due to travel time otherwise (I will need to get a lot of material from my store)
< 1291988539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Warp :P
< 1291988547 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, none yet afaik?
< 1291988573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, but you could always get one added.
< 1291988580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a single command at Mount Vorpal to get /warp vorpal.
< 1291988620 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, depends on ineiros doing it though
< 1291988640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ask nicely? :p
< 1291988656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Actually /warp thingi'mbuilding would be better, since you wouldn't want /warp vorpal to go inside.
< 1291988661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then we could visit it too.
< 1291988669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But, ehh, just take any sea; most of them don't have 128x128 blocks.
< 1291988670 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well yeah, he said he would add them but was rather preoccupied.
< 1291988685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tp dwarf1982 BCxVAhWQXI
< 1291988688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/setwarp thing
< 1291988693 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as for that thing I plan: I have no idea how it will turn out. :P
< 1291988701 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did you type that user name from memory!?
< 1291988708 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mine I mean)
< 1291988718 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if so: more than I can do
< 1291988719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL, PHP decided against supporting "finally" beause you could just catch and ignore the exception.
< 1291988720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genius.
< 1291988724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, I did.
< 1291988727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *WQxi, actually.
< 1291988739 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it. okay
< 1291988746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "B.C. Ex-vah Wuh-kwuh-cksi".
< 1291988760 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the w is not voiced
< 1291988780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 'Tis in my mind.
< 1291988781 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second one in that pronunciation that is
< 1291988782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa.
< 1291988789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, heh.
< 1291988790 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Vorpal, are you two planning Minecraft things?
< 1291988792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1291988796 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as in: "B.C. Ex-vah Wuh-kuh-cksi"
< 1291988797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[This is one of numerous cases why finally is useful:
< 1291988797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql_query("LOCK TABLES mytable WRITE");
< 1291988797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try {
< 1291988797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  // ... do lots of queries here
< 1291988797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} finally {
< 1291988805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try {
< 1291988807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  // ... do lots of queries here
< 1291988809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} catch (Exception $e) {
< 1291988811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  // do nothing here
< 1291988813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}
< 1291988814 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1291988815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mysql_query("UNLOCK TABLES");
< 1291988817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only difference is the second example does rethrow the exception. Though this is still possible (however much more to type) it is wrong design. Since obviously you are using the exceptions as control flow.]]
< 1291988818 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that makes no sense
< 1291988820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at that
< 1291988822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silently dropping the exception is better than re-throwing it after cleaning up
< 1291988824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this person is a core PHP developer.
< 1291988826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_<
< 1291988828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: PHP makes no sense
< 1291988830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=32100 see the problem and first response
< 1291988831 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "transactions"?
< 1291988832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then cry
< 1291988845 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean, that is how you do sql stuff. With transactions
< 1291988848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Dude, they built this language on embedding values into SQL strings.
< 1291988852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't know shit about SQL features :P
< 1291988872 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, php does support sql transactions iirc though. No idea to what degree
< 1291988891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah yeah :P
< 1291988974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The best thing is, to rethrow the exception, you need
< 1291988976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try { ... }
< 1291988982 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes I'm considering an underground dock. Two waterfalls in the middle of the sea, a bit from each other. then a small river from the down shaft, opening onto a small lake (this really needs flickering flames :/) with a dock. From that another short river to an up shaft
< 1291988985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catch (Exception $e) { mysql_query("UNLOCK TABLES"); throw $e; }
< 1291988986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql_query("UNLOCK TABLES");
< 1291988995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Redundancy AND it loses the file/line info!
< 1291989013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Two waterfalls in the middle of the sea, a bit from each other" ;; use the ones you already have? :p
< 1291989022 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, these ones go *down*
< 1291989023 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how MoveCraft deals with ships sailing into waterfalls.

< 1291989030 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but I could do it in the same sea, sure
< 1291989066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That might work, I don't plan to buld there.
< 1291989072 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually one waterfall and one drop shaft. Hm. How to prevent the water from flowing into the drop shaft and making the boat not drop
< 1291989088 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, I could use that.
< 1291989090 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1291989091 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1291989106 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like the water-redstone thingy, except with no redstone)
< 1291989112 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(perfect drop shaft)
< 1291989452 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, elliott: which of you ruined the easter egg
< 1291989458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh?
< 1291989465 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, not me.
< 1291989467 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, lots of lava, stuff dug away
< 1291989479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not I, I haven't been tot he easteregg since you led me there
< 1291989485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not good enough at navigation :P
< 1291989493 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Phantom_Hoover: I doubt fizzie would do it, nor ineiros. I certainly didn't do it. nailor: doubtful. So that leaves you two.
< 1291989509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I haven't been there in ages *shrug*
< 1291989513 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so PH then
< 1291989519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get lost by travelling for 30 seconds away from Mount Hoover.
< 1291989520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no good lying
< 1291989525 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, it wasn't me.
< 1291989543 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you or elliott. I don't know who
< 1291989560 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously. One of you are lying
< 1291989568 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not me.
< 1291989576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame sheep.
< 1291989589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or cows. What did the server say to burn?
< 1291989594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever they are, they're clearly evil.
< 1291989601 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ... pouring lava over the whole thing? digging away blocks?
< 1291989616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nasty piece of work, cows... sheep?
< 1291989625 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiendishly intelligent beasts, sheep.
< 1291989626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously though, I've been there exactly once.
< 1291989642 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....
< 1291989681 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I find out who did it, I will make the same damage to whatever he built
< 1291989737 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you are the prime suspect. Can you prove you didn't do it?
< 1291989743 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291989761 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, ...no. Why am I the prime suspect?
< 1291989764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see Vorpal's legal system is based on the tried-and-true principle of guilty until proven guilty. :p
< 1291989989 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: hagb4rd
< 1291990067 0 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.72.77 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291990071 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I can't log in
< 1291990075 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says i'm alraedy logged in
< 1291990098 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it says "ehird joined/left" all the time
< 1291990299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1291990900 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: CubeHash is not an SHA-3 finalist.
< 1291990913 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"According to the announcement, the choice of finalists came down more to issues of efficiency than issues of security."
< 1291990925 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[# Given the above, NIST didn’t have much to go on, with regard to security, in making their decision. They even made what I find to be an unusual statement in their announcement: “in some cases [we] did not select algorithms … largely because something about them made us ‘nervous,’ even though we knew of no clear attack”.]]
< 1291990947 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, down?
< 1291990958 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Seems so. I'll come there with bukkits of lurva.
< 1291990968 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, no thanks :P
< 1291990978 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Obsidian, dude!
< 1291991009 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well, will do other stuff for a while. And only I know the font.
< 1291991033 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'd just donate the bukkits.
< 1291991068 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you realise how much you would need? the V alone is 9 blocks
< 1291991086 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O is considerably more. Besides the scaffolding for that would be large
< 1291991098 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to prevent lava going everywhere
< 1291991117 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl, going to make food now
< 1291991209 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, ping
< 1291991312 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You just need to make a 3D O shell, fill it with water, and put lava there.
< 1291992166 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh oklopol isn't here
< 1291992655 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1291992666 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97.124.32.81 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291992875 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1291992884 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-32-81.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291993256 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1291993280 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291993528 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291993556 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1291993763 0 :Vorpal_!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291993774 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1291993968 0 :hoxily1!~hoxily@60.177.51.58 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291993996 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : what are the top N channels?  i can't even begin to guess
< 1291994005 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://irc.netsplit.de/channels/?net=freenode has a list
< 1291994042 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memetech.com is still down
< 1291994076 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ubuntu, #debian, #archlinux, #gentoo, #python, #git, #jquery, #haskell, ##c++, #perl i think
< 1291994081 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i saw the whole discussion above already, thanks
< 1291994096 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait there was a discussion?
< 1291994121 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION was still on yesterday's logs

< 1291994123 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie said the same things you just said
< 1291994132 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two hours ago
< 1291994153 0 :Vorpal_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Vorpal
< 1291994265 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW RUDE
< 1291994311 0 :hoxily2!~hoxily@60.176.38.137 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291994430 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people should really make all their responses to logs in a separate file as they read, and then post them all at once when they reach the present moment...
< 1291994494 0 :ginz!~ginz@202.96.191.100 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291994517 0 :hoxily1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1291994604 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: whine whine, we do it this way and we like it
< 1291994638 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: ah.  that's good then.
< 1291994650 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buffered IO is more work
< 1291994652 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1291994721 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, i don't care much. i just think it must be embarassing to be ninja'd by hours...
< 1291994834 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psht, just being in this shithole is embarrassing!
< 1291994903 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: true.  but it's really not worth any effort to reduce the amount of shit here. best to come up with more and more ways to add to the shitpile.
< 1291994943 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inDEED
< 1291995072 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ups his font size in an effort to become friends with his eyes once again

< 1291995245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I just wrote the following: "void* with_rng_state_saved(func, data) void* (*func)(void*); void* data; {"
< 1291995255 0 :hoxily2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1291995257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is something so wrong about functional programming in K&R C
< 1291995265 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is NetHack K&R or something? :)
< 1291995273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1291995283 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd make it a macro.
< 1291995289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetHack: 1987; C89: 1989
< 1291995330 0 :ginz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1291995353 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: #define DO_with_rng_state_saved(q) do { rng_state *foo = current_rng_state(); {q;}; restore_rng_state(foo); } while (0)
< 1291995354 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that
< 1291995360 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO just to mark it as a macro without shouting the whole thing
< 1291995366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps
< 1291995370 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usage:
< 1291995370 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO_with_rng_state_saved(
< 1291995372 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    ...
< 1291995374 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :);
< 1291995386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: issue with there is not writing any commas in what might be quite a complicated function
< 1291995393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*issue with that
< 1291995398 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can solve that in various ways
< 1291995400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1291995406 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: by calling the macro as DO_with_rng_state_saved((...))
< 1291995413 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tweaking it slightly
< 1291995414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can't use semicolons
< 1291995422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you use gcc extensions
< 1291995427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and IMO, gcc extensions and K&R C don't mix
< 1291995438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not because you can't do it, just because it's an abomination)
< 1291995448 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and, it's just that constructing functions in C is irritating, and also, you have to separate the code from where it happens
< 1291995451 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't really aid reading
< 1291995462 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291995485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not too bad, because I'm doing it in two consecutive functions, the second of which is mostly a wrapper
< 1291995488 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm... what about
< 1291995496 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WITH_RNG_STATE_SAVED {
< 1291995498 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    ...
< 1291995500 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} END_SAVE_RNG
< 1291995504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, macros are the wrong tool for this
< 1291995514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :functions are clearly "better"
< 1291995515 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Cpp macros are, yes :)
< 1291995522 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what it really wants is a Lisp macro
< 1291995541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp macros always strike me as fundamentally impure and awkward
< 1291995547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they work syntactically rather than semantically
< 1291995553 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's the whole /point/
< 1291995559 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: with Lisp, the syntax and semantics are closely linked
< 1291995585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think that's a huge negative for a language
< 1291995588 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have you looked at Scheme's hygenic macros?
< 1291995592 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're much nicer
< 1291995602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually almost what inspired Underlambda
< 1291995609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is pretty much syntax-independent
< 1291995611 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, scheme macros?
< 1291995626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, wanting to not link syntax and semantics
< 1291995629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Underload does
< 1291995653 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: clearly, we need to define Abstract Semantic Trees
< 1291995667 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION 's brain flags up a warning sign: that actually sounds like a good idea

< 1291995671 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like we're straying off topic!
< 1291995682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good ideas aren't offtopic
< 1291995688 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no, but close :)
< 1291995690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as they're sufficiently eso
< 1291995728 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd just like to say that I highly recommend 12pt fonts on small, high-PPI laptop screens like we have.
< 1291995729 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is nice.
< 1291995731 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: sounds to me like you're summoning augur :D
< 1291995740 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh dear :D
< 1291995748 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliott
< 1291995752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1291995752 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291995756 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION actually did that now, didn't he :D

< 1291995756 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AWAKEN
< 1291995763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AIIIIIEEEEEEEEEE
< 1291995811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the problem with abstract semantic trees is that for all programs, P,Q, eval(P)=eval(Q) must => ASemT of P = ASemT of Q
< 1291995818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they're not computable, *unless* you restrict the operations on them
< 1291995842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that for every ASemT P' and Q' of programs P and Q, eval(P)=eval(Q) => f(P')=f(Q') for all f
< 1291996093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know a way to get the GNOME menu to only show the generic names of applications, not their brand name too? it's irritating me that a bunch of applications have an irrelevant name on top of them
< 1291996112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Pidgin Instant Messenger" vs. "Instant Messenger", etc.)
< 1291996144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1291996242 0 :hoxily2!~hoxily@60.176.41.193 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291996307 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291996698 0 :hoxily2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1291996823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb ais523
< 1291997023 0 :hoxily2!~hoxily@60.176.46.79 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291997104 0 :hoxily2!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1291997157 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm, would you prefer "gimp" or "image editor"? And what about gimp vs. krita then (both are image editors)
< 1291997177 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, if you have no more than one of any type of application installed
< 1291997197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "GNU Image Manipulation Program"? :P But yes, disambiguation is required, it's just one of those niggles.
< 1291997219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably rename GIMP to "Image Editor" and Krita to just "Krita" if I used both but GIMP more often. Admittedly that is not a very future-proof solution.
< 1291997226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or automatic, either.
< 1291997233 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1291997242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But my menus are a bit daunting, so I'm decluttering them.
< 1291997251 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine just say "Gimp" and so on
< 1291997269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: For instance "AisleRiot Solitaire", there's no reason not to have that as Solitaire really, since it's the GNOME desktop's official Solitaire program.
< 1291997287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also it's a little confusing, I wondered "what game is AisleRiot?" the first time Is aw it.
< 1291997455 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, gconf-editor failure: "long description: Project-Id-Version: gnome-panel Report-Msgid-Bugs-To: POT-Creation-Date: 2010-07-27 00:02+0200 PO-Revision-Date: [... lots more ...]"
< 1291997458 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some setting
< 1291997492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: :D
< 1291997527 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, very strange that the UI is in English but some key descs are in Swedish
< 1291997535 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(some are however in English)
< 1291997545 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the UI on this machine is set to English I find this very strange
< 1291997567 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nice, this one has different languages for short and long desc
< 1291997584 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does any METAFONT-like music program exist?
< 1291997632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1291997651 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291997679 0 :hoxily!~hoxily@60.176.44.218 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291997733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what Inkscape's generic name is

< 1291997738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scalable Drawing Editor?
< 1291997742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scalable Graphics Editor?
< 1291997823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1291997840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't figure out what the difference between Applications → System Tools and System → Administration is meant to be
< 1291997844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :local vs. global? that doesn't really fit
< 1291997867 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Information vs. modification or something like that?
< 1291997890 0 :hoxily1!~hoxily@60.176.46.249 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291997917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Nope; System Tools has Configuration Editor.
< 1291997930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Most things in Administration are modification, but not all.)
< 1291997964 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think GF-Magick is better than Inkscape and GIMP?
< 1291998037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree!
< 1291998110 0 :hoxily!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1291998124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pidgin calls itself Pidgin Internet Messenger, not Pidgin Instant Messenger. Interesting.
< 1291998137 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, system → admin I think is gnome settings for system stuff. contrast with system → preferences
< 1291998152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, but what is Applications → System Tools then?
< 1291998169 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ones that doesn't show up in the gnome control center?
< 1291998178 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, since the ones under system → admin do
< 1291998181 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION assumes it has bloated so much it is no longer instant

< 1291998186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you think that's a worthy distinction? :)
< 1291998195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The Control Centre is basically hidden out of sight nowadays anyway.
< 1291998199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Getting to it is non-trivial.
< 1291998202 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Applications → system tools contain stuff like wireshark and other non-settings thingies
< 1291998209 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, gparted too there
< 1291998221 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gconf-editor is in system tools too for me
< 1291998222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it also contains Configuration Editor. also, GParted here in in System → Administration
< 1291998231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conclusion: Nobody knows what the fuck the difference is meant to be.
< 1291998235 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have control center right there in the system menu
< 1291998254 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't think I added it manually
< 1291998271 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1291998283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ubuntu?
< 1291998284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or what?
< 1291998298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway the Control Centre is a rather rubbish version of a menu. :)
< 1291998315 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stuff that requires root privileges vs. stuff that doesn't? :-P
< 1291998357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That's actually vaguely plausible, but not a very relevant distinction; e.g. just because Disk Utility doesn't require root to show information, doesn't mean it isn't system-wide.
< 1291998364 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's nothing else it's probably something similar to regular vs. power user distinction
< 1291998391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What, Configuration Editor isn't a power-user tool?
< 1291998407 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, both on ubuntu and arch
< 1291998407 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't what Configuration Editor is, so I can't answer that question
< 1291998409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if you mean the other way around: the Services settings?
< 1291998411 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+know
< 1291998412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: gconf-editor.
< 1291998418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Think regedit, except less annoying to use.
< 1291998420 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, neither install is brand new
< 1291998421 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what gconf-editor does
< 1291998421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where GNOME settings go to die.
< 1291998422 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright
< 1291998441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, Ubuntu hasn't had the Control Centre visible in forever (years).
< 1291998446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It *may* be in stock GNOME; dunno.
< 1291998452 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then it's probably not that either, which is a bit surprising
< 1291998472 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, on my ubuntu system it dates back to jaunty
< 1291998474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm just moving everything in System Tools to either Administration or Accessories :P
< 1291998478 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so maybe the default was different then?
< 1291998488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not that I know of.
< 1291998494 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, huh
< 1291998498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Amusingly, Administration is in the top-level menu System, so one would think System Tools would at least be System → Tools.
< 1291998521 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but System menu contains stuff like log out?
< 1291998525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think System Tools is meant to be Accessories: The Expert Edition.
< 1291998528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes it does. And?
< 1291998535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not on recent Ubuntus, incidentally.)
< 1291998537 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't think it is a "real" menu in the sense that applications is
< 1291998540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntæ.
< 1291998541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes it is.
< 1291998546 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, recent = ?
< 1291998546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can add things to it with the menu editor.
< 1291998553 0 :augur_!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1291998556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Recent = 10.04 onwards? Maybe 9.10 onwards.
< 1291998559 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, my lucid system has logout and such in the system menu
< 1291998570 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it didn't back in jaunty
< 1291998577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, that's just because your upgrade botched *shrug*
< 1291998577 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know my arch always had it in system
< 1291998591 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it did? haven't noticed in general
< 1291998596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.liberiangeek.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/photo_on_menu_thumb.png
< 1291998620 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have log out and shut down below that. But isn't that 10.10?
< 1291998631 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe not
< 1291998637 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(considering date)
< 1291998648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I've *used* Lucid, I know what it was :P
< 1291998659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can tell it's not Maverick because it has that brown highlight, not orange.
< 1291998663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beigey.
< 1291998676 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, I upgraded to lucid and switched back to clearlooks first thing :P
< 1291998705 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also indeed, ubuntu has gparted in system -> admin
< 1291998716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian too.
< 1291998721 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and in control-center too
< 1291998835 0 :hoxily1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1291999031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers putting Emacs in every menu

< 1291999085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION renames Quadrapassel to Tetris

< 1291999089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers appending a (TM) sign

< 1291999336 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anything wrong with GF-Magick? Is there anything wrong with Inkscape and GIMP?
< 1291999406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: They have completely different usage cases, as far as I am aware.
< 1291999444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# (Deletion log); 14:49 . . Keymaker (Talk | contribs) (deleted "Talk:Brainfuck/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brainfuck/index.php")
< 1291999445 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They do?
< 1291999449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: will you hate me?
< 1291999461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Sure; GF-Magick is a batch program, and Inkscape and GIMP are interactive editors.
< 1291999613 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes and that is the problem with those programs, that if you do it wrong, you have to do it over again, and even if you have a macro with calculation, you still have to click the point manually every time you change something.
< 1291999647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, in my opinion they are much more suitable for creating and editing images than GF-Magick, because you can see what you're doing while you're doing it, and you don't have to plan ahead as much.
< 1291999756 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, static linking. Would it not be rather annoying when you have a security update in some commonly used library. Such as OpenSSL. Probably would take more time to get the update out too, since more stuff needs to be recompiled?
< 1291999790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I am sure you have raised this objection before as it is the first one *everyone* raises when hearing of static linking ... no?
< 1291999800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The answer is basically that
< 1291999802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1291999829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The answer is basically that with symbol versioning, ABI breaks in libraries are *already* common and we have to go through situations like this. Additionally, it does not really help that much:
< 1291999830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't remember having mentioned it. Of course this does not apply to glibc and it's stupid versioned symbols. But to stuff like openssl it seems somewhat relevant
< 1291999846 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, openssl doesn't version symbols though
< 1291999847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a decent distribution method -- think binary diffs here -- it does not actually take all that much bandwidth to transfer the new binaries.
< 1291999860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if you're on dial-up it would be a problem.
< 1291999865 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but time on the compile farm before you can push out the upgrades?
< 1291999892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: As far as compilation goes, any active, semi-large distro already regularly compiles many, many packages every day as part of the normal routine of things -- updates, simple time-based builds to check it still works, etc.
< 1291999911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Compile farms are fast. And the best part is, with static linking, they'll spend a lot less time running ld(1) ;-)
< 1291999913 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes but kitten will be a one man project for quite some time
< 1291999919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So quicker security updates!
< 1291999935 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so slower since you don't yet have a huge compile farm
< 1291999936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Indeed it will. Small distros tend to not be so quick on the security updates. That's a risk you take.
< 1291999946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Of course I would endeavour to recompile all vulnerable packages ASAP.
< 1291999946 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, true
< 1291999955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it might take three days or so to get everything pushed out.
< 1291999985 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur
< 1291999987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway, I don't plan to recompile for every new library update, as for things like new features and the like it really doesn't matter. I can easily update a library package without updating every program to be compiled with it.
< 1291999997 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do not plan ahead when making the drawing, you will make a mistake! And then you have to do it all over again.
< 1291999998 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, true
< 1291999999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every now and then I'll rebuild every single package over the course of a week to bring in a new libc.
< 1292000010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No, because with Inkscape and GIMP you can just fix your mistake.
< 1292000012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or use undo.
< 1292000043 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but for security issue in openssl that is quite a bit. Hm. *checks with ldd for binaries using openssl*
< 1292000075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I plan to avoid OpenSSL wherever I can.
< 1292000086 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, gnutls?
< 1292000088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have seen a few too many code snippets to trust their sanity.
< 1292000092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno about gnutls.
< 1292000095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to see.
< 1292000102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dropbear uses LibTomCrypt :P
< 1292000103 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, from what I remember it's API is actually somewhat saner
< 1292000115 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ssh != ssl
< 1292000117 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes you can undo, of course. But can you put all the steps in one window and type equations in there, and keep them there with the drawing? (With SVG you can *almost* do so, but almost is not enough except for exploding hand grenades)
< 1292000118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, gnutls is probably my best bet.
< 1292000120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I know that.
< 1292000134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But IIRC There's a LibTomWhatever for that.
< 1292000151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: /msg
< 1292000153 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, still, a lot of stuff only has code for openssl. Unless you plan to rewrite those I suspect you will need openssl
< 1292000168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: gnutls is actually meant to be openssl-compatible ... *sort of*
< 1292000176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, openssl is probably a necessary evil.
< 1292000184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't say I didn't warn you if another vulnerability is found :)
< 1292000223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: "but almost is not enough except for exploding hand grenades" what?
< 1292000332 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: O, it is just a metaphor. It can be safely ignored.
< 1292000343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm not sure I quite understand that metaphor.
< 1292000354 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Then ignore it.
< 1292000424 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And just read the rest of the sentence by assuming the metaphorical part is not there.
< 1292000757 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Even if it can, not all SVG rendering programs work the same way (some might not support all feature, or might be slow, you might have some fonts missing, etc), and it doesn't do the kind of contrast/hue/colorspace and those kind of things (Inkscape and GIMP are not the same program).)
< 1292000914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What license is Enhanced CWEB under?
< 1292001327 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It is under the license that you are not allowed to call any derivative works just "CWEB" by itself, and that you must not change the license.
< 1292001386 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, it must be clear that it is not the standard CWEB.
< 1292001418 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I included the comment at the top of each source file "% This is modified from standard CWEB." to make it more clearly)
< 1292001473 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programs written with Enhanced CWEB can use whatever license you want to use, though. (I often use either the GNU GPL or public domain, depending on the program.)
< 1292001617 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you want to know what the license is?
< 1292001830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Just curious. I thought it was GPL.
< 1292001934 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't. It is a free software license incompatible with the GPL. I believe the license only applies to the specific modules included in standard CWEB, not to external modules such as PicoC.
< 1292001966 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you want to use Enhanced CWEB to write your own programs, those programs can be GPL if you want it to.
< 1292002062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's compatible with GPL version 3; see clause 7c
< 1292002131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're allowed to add a requirement "requiring that modified versions of such material be marked in reasonable ways as different from the original version"
< 1292002142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and requiring it to not have exactly the same name as the original version seems reasonable to me
< 1292002178 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK let me see. OK I saw it. So I guess that means you are permitted to add modules licensed under the GPL, to the program, and link them together without license violations.
< 1292002201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so, too, as long as the modules don't require a version before 3
< 1292002216 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't think you are allowed to relicense the CWEB modules though, because they specifically say you can't change the license)
< 1292002253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPL version 3 had quite a few changes to make it more compatible with existing open source licenses
< 1292002255 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I agree with you that it is a reasonable requirement.
< 1292002320 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I made a GPL'd software as part of a commercial project, I would certainly want to make that requirement.
< 1292002584 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it do to simply type "Option 7c of the GNU GPL v3 is selected" in the license notice, or is that not specific enough?
< 1292002596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's not specific enough
< 1292002653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd say something like "As an additional restriction, you must give any derivative works a name other than just 'CWEB', to distinguish them from the original work."
< 1292002704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/original work/original version/, may as well keep it as similar to the wording in GPLv3 as possible
< 1292002757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292002835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
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< 1292002904 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
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< 1292002955 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it allowed to make any of the options in section 7 to be conditionally applied, such as only for commercial use or whatever?
< 1292002981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be non-Free, I strongly believe.
< 1292002989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Discrimination on the basis of field of endeavour.)
< 1292003045 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Maybe that makes it non-Open-Source, but for the Free-Software definition, such things are not explicit (whether they are important depends on certain things).
< 1292003081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, it's non-Free according to the DFSG.
< 1292003087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So your software could not be included in Debian.
< 1292003123 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I suppose the condition can be written as a separate license, and the separate license is deleted, then it is unconditional, so it can be used, then, I guess.
< 1292003167 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyways, I have no reason to add these kind of conditionally applied restrictions except in the case of software I would be writing as part of a commercial project, so it doesn't really need to be included in Debian anyways.
< 1292003300 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But writing the condition as a separate license probably helps.
< 1292003494 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.114.29.124 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292003646 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similar to how the LGPL v3 is written as a separate license which adds extra permission to the GPL v3.
< 1292003871 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you agree with me that octal numbers are good for coding the patterns on a seven-segment display?
< 1292003902 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hardly ever use octal, but it does have a few good uses.
< 1292004358 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1292004613 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, down?
< 1292004653 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, no, as you would have noted if you could wait for more than two goddamn seconds before asking.
< 1292004672 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@97-124-32-81.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292004789 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1292004924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god
< 1292004926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu Shop
< 1292004926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://shop.canonical.com/
< 1292004936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=795 ha what
< 1292004946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ubuntu Mouse"
< 1292004948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=643
< 1292004953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it flat
< 1292004958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does the ubuntu logo illuminate
< 1292005414 0 :nooga__!nooga@156.17.4.19 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292005507 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services
< 1292005513 0 :nooga__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :nooga
< 1292005777 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292006790 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, down?
< 1292006792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: dwon?
< 1292006821 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't know if d won anything
< 1292007041 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Basically having such a conditional requirement only will work for the FSF's notion of "Free", and even then they will be damned annoyed by it.
< 1292007098 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OK.
< 1292007270 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it can be separate license for the condition this is you can stop being annoying by it?
< 1292007358 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some scripts using FurryScript, such as D&D adventure, video game names, TV plot, etc. Maybe you or someone else can have more ideas, such as news headlines, or mahjong, or something else?
< 1292007389 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still annoying to the FSF for the licensing conditions to change based on whether or not you like money.
< 1292007431 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it is a separate license, then you are allowed to tell the licensing conditions not to change, if that is what you prefer.
< 1292007455 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I feel I may regret this, but what is FurryScript?
< 1292007480 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Probably the best way is to look at it http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/furry/
< 1292007505 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no documentation yet, sorry. Just use the existing scripts as examples to base on
< 1292007559 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Despite what some people think, it has nothing to do with pornography or Javascript.)
< 1292007842 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1292007851 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Did you regret this? Or do you have another question, because you did not understand it the first time?
< 1292007916 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292008354 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292008366 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292008470 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1292008969 0 :Sasha2_!~WHAT@97-124-38-155.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292009108 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1292009473 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, down?
< 1292010104 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292010182 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1292010296 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292010440 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Did you manage to figure it out yet?
< 1292010701 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@m-183.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292011053 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292011184 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292011731 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :down?
< 1292012034 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's down?
< 1292012603 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The basement
< 1292014136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is there a NASM-portable way to get names for syscall numbers in a program?
< 1292014148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't want to run cpp on my program.
< 1292014258 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apply sed to the relevant headers, massage into nasm syntax, use %include (if there is such a thing)
< 1292014260 0 :Algoromist!~A@115.84.143.16 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292014281 0 :Algoromist!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1292014281 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed <3
< 1292014317 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I just read about how C++ differentiate operator overloading of ++ prefix vs. ++ postfix
< 1292014319 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UGH
< 1292014333 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ [...] UGH
< 1292014340 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you surprised or something? :P
< 1292014342 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.sk89q.com/wiki/CraftBook#Usage
< 1292014342 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you mean the dummy argument?
< 1292014346 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, yes indeed. But this is worse than average
< 1292014348 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed
< 1292014355 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, remember your integrated circuit thing?
< 1292014369 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's fantastic. Horrible, but somehow fantastic.
< 1292014382 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, how?
< 1292014396 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it is like they left in a quick hack for testing during development. (the "sane" thing would have been to have operator++pre or something like that. Or a prefix/postfix keyword)
< 1292014401 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm, I don't really get that, how is it fantastic?
< 1292014405 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, how what?
< 1292014415 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it differentiate?
< 1292014426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, remember your integrated circuit thing?
< 1292014427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm?
< 1292014435 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it needs different function signatures. Right?
< 1292014436 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I don't know, it's just a subjective feeling.
< 1292014443 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: fair enough
< 1292014444 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so it passes an extra int dummy argument for postfix
< 1292014450 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION still doesn't get it though :P

< 1292014474 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, http://wiki.sk89q.com/wiki/CraftBook/ICs
< 1292014483 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the way operator overloading works in C++ is very dumb. I think many things in C++ are very dumb in general.
< 1292014484 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, do you know if there is a defined value for the dummy argument, or is actually using it implementation-defined (or even undefined)?
< 1292014487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Definw how it's my integrated circuit thing.
< 1292014496 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not sure.
< 1292014497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Define
< 1292014518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, a PRNG.
< 1292014550 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foo& Foo::operator++() { /* code for prefix */ return *this; }  Foo Foo::operator++(int this_is_so_stupid) { /* code for postfix */ return whatever; }  -- what's not to like!
< 1292014560 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, bookshelves in some form.
< 1292014588 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, http://wiki.sk89q.com/wiki/CraftBook/Readable_bookshelves
< 1292014667 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you could make a prng in redstone by making use of the timing issues of redstone on SMP :P
< 1292014697 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Incidentally, do you know if there is a defined value for the dummy argument, or is actually using it implementation-defined (or even undefined)? <-- no idea. one source says "constant dummy value"
< 1292014698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's a server mod though.
< 1292014702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or are all of these server mods?
< 1292014703 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, the dummy argument is defined to have a value of 0 when the postfix code is called. I'd like to know how much code there is in the world that actually relies on that value. :p
< 1292014710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, they are.
< 1292014711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L A M E
< 1292014714 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not so much server mods as plugins to hMod.
< 1292014729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was an actual redstone PRNG.
< 1292014735 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they can be installed while it was running.
< 1292014746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ISO/IEC 14882:2003(E) 13.5.7 para 1: "When the postfix increment is called as a result of using the ++ operator, the int argument will have value zero.125)"
< 1292014754 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, lame indeed
< 1292014769 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"125) Calling operator++ explicitly, as in expressions like a.operator++(2), has no special properties: The argument to operator++ is 2.")
< 1292014785 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ooh, that implies that you can call it explicitly with a non-zero value :)
< 1292014790 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292014795 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, wait, it isn't an hMod plugin. Forget it.
< 1292014798 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, if you was to decide it would no longer be minecraft that we ran. But some sort of blinkenlightcraftbling
< 1292014800 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo->operator++(7) or something like that
< 1292014808 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Right, that's the second line I pasted.
< 1292014816 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WaitI'mnotsureanymore
< 1292014838 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: doh, missed that :)
< 1292014850 0 :Algoromist!~A@115.84.143.16 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292014861 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: ooh, that implies that you can call it explicitly with a non-zero value :) <-- you can explicitly call operations in C++ iirc. Except for the classical C types
< 1292014863 0 :Algoromist!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1292014866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be a void argument
< 1292014868 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :operators*
< 1292014869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :operator++(void x)
< 1292014870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292014875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you're not allowed to use, except as
< 1292014877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x;
< 1292014879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or
< 1292014880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(void) x;
< 1292014892 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Right, again, that was the second line I pasted.
< 1292014893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could do
< 1292014899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo->operator++(function_returning_void())
< 1292014900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see!
< 1292014906 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292014918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bonus points for not allowing a void value/argument ANYWHERE but in operator++.
< 1292014930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yet having (void) in a declaration imply one void argument, thus making every C89 header ever invalid.
< 1292014939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since the only time you could use that in a declaration would be for operator++.
< 1292014962 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if you also add an empty expression and make it have a void type :D
< 1292015010 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that calling foo(), where foo is declared foo(void) actually calls it with one void argument
< 1292015070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: no, the syntax for a void argument is (;)
< 1292015076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the null statement results in a void value
< 1292015081 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, ok
< 1292015082 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, C++ apparently left out operator** to simplify parsing. How utterly ironic
< 1292015083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo->operator++((;))
< 1292015090 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but statements don't have values, stupid
< 1292015098 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the empty *expression* has a value :)
< 1292015100 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you might like that irony too
< 1292015115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: when has C++ ever been logical?
< 1292015116 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the empty statement is simply an expression statement evaluating the empty expression!
< 1292015125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I don't suppose you have a nasm struct declaration for an ELF header? :p
< 1292015129 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292015133 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I do not, no
< 1292015165 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292015180 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I won't have ELF in my OS, I'll just have a jump-to-first-byte binary format - considering making the "magic" value an x86 jmp instruction :D
< 1292015213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: who needs a magic value!
< 1292015217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :execute anything you're told to
< 1292015227 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, but I think hashbang is useful enough to keep around
< 1292015255 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably pluggable loaders too, since that should allow me to support ELF too in theory
< 1292015257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: psht, do what the commodore 64 did (sort of); instead of hashbangs, use some assembly code that does exec(interp, myfilename)
< 1292015272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: then just have a compiler that turns #!foo at the start of a file to a program with that at the top!
< 1292015296 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hashbang is useful because it's in ASCII, you don't need a binary editor to edit shell scripts
< 1292015302 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure, that can be done
< 1292015304 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Then you have to compile it on every computer, the file won't just run on all computer, but it can still work, I guess.
< 1292015308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you can do x86 code in ascii, just ask ais523
< 1292015312 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, having the shell recognize hashbangs works
< 1292015315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he wrote a self-uudecoder program in entirely ascii
< 1292015319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: not really, exec()
< 1292015322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. what does init do
< 1292015382 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The jump to first byte format can work, maybe similar to .COM format, it can load the PSP (program segment prefix).
< 1292015384 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO, init can be limited to the set of binary formats actually supported by the vanilla kernel
< 1292015386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: nasm-mode is supremely irritating for structures :P
< 1292015393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: no, I mean, init scripts
< 1292015398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the scripts that init calls
< 1292015404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with exec()
< 1292015407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could be in any language :)
< 1292015458 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they just need to be something that init can execute, and init doesn't necessarily use exec(), and exec() doesn't necessarily even exist
< 1292015507 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, C++ allows overloading the comma operator?!
< 1292015511 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that even make sense
< 1292015521 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well of course C++ isn't required to make sense)
< 1292015530 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but here I meant "how can that even have a meaning")
< 1292015540 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comma operator overloading is hardly the most weird part of C++ even :P
< 1292015558 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy, it's a binary operator, you can make it do whatever you want
< 1292015566 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, oooh, the comma operator does the dummy int too
< 1292015575 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1292015576 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1292015580 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think it doesn't make sense to overload the comma operator, though.
< 1292015595 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is binary but exists in prefix and postfix
< 1292015598 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck
< 1292015660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, it isn't even like the comma operator is commonly used in C... I mean, to stuff into for (...) or while (...) is the only common usage afaik
< 1292015699 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm you can overload ->....
< 1292015706 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you handle this-> then
< 1292015712 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not used a lot, no... maybe for corner cases like sequencing into a single statement or to do something similar to statement expressions
< 1292015722 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: this-> doesn't invoke the overload
< 1292015728 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, how boring :P
< 1292015733 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a pointer to Foo, not a Foo
< 1292015740 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1292015745 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, so this->->?
< 1292015746 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is often used to implement classes that behave like pointers
< 1292015747 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no
< 1292015753 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*this)->
< 1292015757 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how silly
< 1292015765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you ever do that?
< 1292015767 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smart pointers, handles, etc
< 1292015768 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just for the syle?
< 1292015772 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what
< 1292015783 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, n/m
< 1292015795 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, how can this ever be a **?
< 1292015807 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, this is C, right?
< 1292015819 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, Sgeo is lost, right?
< 1292015845 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still C++: vorpal is reading about C++ and finding things he find weird :)
< 1292015862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: C/C++!
< 1292015865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mauled

< 1292015883 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, this is *well* into the C++-only part of C/C++
< 1292015884 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, only because a course uses it
< 1292015888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm translating http://www.sco.com/developers/gabi/1998-04-29/ch4.eheader.html (lolol sco.com yeah yeah) to nasm and it's a pain :)
< 1292015890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i was joking
< 1292015894 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, ok
< 1292015898 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok then. Why would this ever be a **?
< 1292015905 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it isn't
< 1292015913 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you ever ask? :P
< 1292015924 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*this)->
< 1292015963 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a pointer to Foo, (*this) is a Foo, Foo presumably has an overloaded -> operator, it gets called
< 1292015988 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1292015995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing your own elf header is a bitch
< 1292016031 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next, someone will tell me that * and & (as deref and ref) can be overloaded
< 1292016037 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the operator would then return a pointer to Bar, and the name that comes after -> is then resolved as a member of Bar
< 1292016038 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes.
< 1292016041 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[or did I get the names backwards?]
< 1292016042 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: they can
< 1292016048 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O
< 1292016077 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The times I've written ELF headers in NASM, I've just done it with commented db/dw/dd lines. (Possibly because I haven't ever bothered with NASMs struct macros anyway.)
< 1292016078 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*but*, as before, this is a pointer so *this always gets the default operator* (the one that takes a pointer type)
< 1292016090 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what the utility of fake pointers is

< 1292016103 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*(*this) however, could invoke an overloaded operator
< 1292016112 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1292016118 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new[] could overflow couldn't it?
< 1292016132 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well, smart pointers and such things
< 1292016136 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the size of the object * the number of objects to allocate > SIZE_T_MAX
< 1292016140 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ^
< 1292016150 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As much as calloc, I would say.
< 1292016152 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if that will be a compile time error
< 1292016153 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you're supposed to check for that
< 1292016160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You can also overload cast to void*.
< 1292016177 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, "you" as the programmer check for that size? Or "you" as compiler writer?
< 1292016184 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets a vaguely uneasy feeling his new[] overloads and calloc implementations don't check this

< 1292016189 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you overload other casts? Or add your own casts?
< 1292016195 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, wait, why do you use C++ ?
< 1292016198 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the one implementing new[] that is
< 1292016211 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's too big, return null or throw bad_alloc
< 1292016226 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, won't throwing an exception allocate memory btw?
< 1292016233 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Hmm. Yes, you can.
< 1292016242 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :operator name_of_type()
< 1292016243 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, which is bad for OOM
< 1292016248 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: only if you heap-allocate the exception, I don't think you usually do that
< 1292016254 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you stack-allocate it instead
< 1292016264 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have never ever used exceptions in C++
< 1292016276 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, won't that be invalid when the function returns?
< 1292016284 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, even if it returns by exception that is
< 1292016295 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't return, it throws an exception, and then magic happens
< 1292016320 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you catch by value, it's even intuitively okay.
< 1292016327 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, so... surely the stack frame must be cleared up, and then signal handlers could clobber it
< 1292016339 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think catching by reference is sort-of allowed too.
< 1292016348 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get how this could possibly work
< 1292016356 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copy to reserved area
< 1292016359 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack frames, signal handlers, these things don't even exist in C++'s semantics afaik :)
< 1292016361 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, what about size of the thing
< 1292016371 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, stack frames must, at some level
< 1292016379 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, and even plain C89 has signals iirc
< 1292016381 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in the language, maybe in the implementation :D
< 1292016388 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a very abstract level.
< 1292016404 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, #include  I presume works
< 1292016408 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uh...
< 1292016416 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely they realised this must be handled
< 1292016433 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uuuh, signals are a POSIXism.
< 1292016442 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, they are in C99. I checked
< 1292016442 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :signals are too unixy to exist in C/C++ - for one Windows doesn't ever do signals
< 1292016456 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, just SIGFPE and SIGABRT iirc
< 1292016478 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right, they did add signals to C, didn't they.
< 1292016485 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they must exist in C++.
< 1292016510 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I don't have a copy of C89 so can't check it
< 1292016520 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, if exception handlers don't allocate new stack space until after the exception object has died, it'll be fine... but I wonder what happens if you catch by reference and call some functions
< 1292016521 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just specify that signals during exception handling use a different stack or something. Or run the exception handler before the stack actually gets properly unwound, I'm sure that's doable (if messy) too.
< 1292016522 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1292016527 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man page of signal(2) says
< 1292016530 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C89, C99, POSIX.1-2001.
< 1292016534 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in conforming to
< 1292016534 0 :Sasha2_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1292016563 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it'll be fine as long as you don't unwind the stack until after you've run the exception handler(s)
< 1292016594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ isn't based on C99
< 1292016598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no, they mustn't exist in C++
< 1292016601 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Is based on C89.
< 1292016613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: based on, yes, but not as a standard
< 1292016620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C++ spec doesn't go "this is a delta to C89 that defers to it"
< 1292016623 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, post increment operator needs to return previous value?
< 1292016624 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1292016628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it doesn't mention signals in the PDF, it's not part of C++
< 1292016633 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: True, true.
< 1292016638 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's only POSIX.
< 1292016647 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't it just be called *AFTER*
< 1292016664 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you could say that signal "conforms to" C99 also if C99 doesn't include the signal function, as in saying any function you've written in pure C99 conforms to it
< 1292016704 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's not proper overloading if you can't completely specify the return value to whatever.
< 1292016705 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is to say: "conforms to? what does that EVEN MEAN?"
< 1292016724 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so it isn't just syntax sugar then... It needs to act insane
< 1292016743 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you just always returned the object it's called on, then you could only use postfix ++ for "postfixy" things.
< 1292016759 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you can use it for any operation you want.
< 1292016759 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not insane, it just needs to act as the normal postfix-increment operator or your users will go mad
< 1292016761 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, patently good idea!
< 1292016767 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, flexibility!
< 1292016769 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to only allow postfixy uses)
< 1292016815 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, "act insane" = "make a deep copy of the object to return, then modify the original one"
< 1292016819 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, is what I'm saying
< 1292016893 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're just trusting their magical optimizing compilers to optimize away the copies.
< 1292016937 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that would be a good trick. I have a feeling this would entail solving the halting problem to handle for the general case.
< 1292016965 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not sure though)
< 1292016987 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would all make perfect sense to you if you were sufficiently damaged by C++
< 1292016995 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as it does to me)
< 1292017012 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-44-210.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292017013 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, why have you exposed yourself to so much C++
< 1292017018 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, surely you must hate the language
< 1292017031 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm is delete NULL; valid?
< 1292017035 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, free(NULL) is
< 1292017039 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's a no-op
< 1292017090 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hrm, literally "delete NULL;" might not be valid because delete on a void-pointer is undefined
< 1292017157 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I meant literally yes
< 1292017248 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, written literally, it's a damned stupid thing to do and best removed by nothing or a better no-op :)
< 1292017257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1292017262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like __asm__("nop")
< 1292017265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1292017307 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, actually tried it. error: type long int argument given to delete, expected pointer
< 1292017312 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not what I expected
< 1292017325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :delete (void *)NULL;
< 1292017326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try that
< 1292017346 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, tells me that delete of void* pointer is undefined
< 1292017354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: delete (char *)NULL;
< 1292017376 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the void* thing was just a warning though
< 1292017378 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not an error
< 1292017379 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292017380 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-- if the value of the oeprand of delete is the null pointer the operation has no effect."
< 1292017384 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that shouldn't be an error.
< 1292017389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oeprand.
< 1292017392 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The void thing is prohibited, though.
< 1292017392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that really in the spec?
< 1292017402 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm typing because the PDF-paste often messes things up.
< 1292017402 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That conventional space between char and * irritates my eyes
< 1292017413 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it really because of the int* a, b; thing??
< 1292017413 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: *but* doesn't the null pointer and void thing interact?
< 1292017418 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\?\?/?/
< 1292017430 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which takes precedence - is deleting a null void-pointer a no-op or undefined? :)
< 1292017446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's also because of declaration-mirrors-use.
< 1292017450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int *a;
< 1292017451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a = 3;
< 1292017452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See?
< 1292017457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Not really, since the null-pointer thing was when the expression has a valid type.
< 1292017462 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it seems to have been optimised away at -O0 by gcc
< 1292017464 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how weird
< 1292017478 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-O0 shouldn't do that
< 1292017479 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, hmm.
< 1292017491 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only about deleting an incomplete class type.
< 1292017500 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't really work that well with C++'s reference types, which must die a horrible death
< 1292017545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ...what's wrong with them?
< 1292017579 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They seem a bit magical. Assign to them once, followed by a subsequent assign.. those assigns do two different things
< 1292017593 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Initialization != assignment.
< 1292017615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what fizzie said
< 1292017621 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what elliott said
< 1292017625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what olsner said
< 1292017629 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what elliott said
< 1292017633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what fizzie said
< 1292017651 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no, what I said
< 1292017709 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh
< 1292017735 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't see if the thing will be modified with references
< 1292017743 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without checking the declaration of the function
< 1292017744 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider:
< 1292017746 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int i;
< 1292017750 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i = 4;
< 1292017753 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo(i)
< 1292017770 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then consider: foo(int x) vs. foo(int &x)
< 1292017804 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C# actually gets that right, it requires ref keyword both in function "prototype" and in the call to the function
< 1292017833 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hence C++ references needs to die.
< 1292017910 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++'s references were most assuredly a mistake.
< 1292017930 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aside from being totally redundant with pointers, they make function calls super-confusing since you can't tell what's what.
< 1292017935 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you all know that :P
< 1292017966 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, I'm not so sure everyone knows that :P
< 1292018016 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION didn't know :D

< 1292018029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not knowing C++ almost at all helps with that
< 1292018047 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I switch back and forth from C++ to JavaScript every day 8-D
< 1292018054 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people think "but omg, references, like, optimization! and stuff!", but references are really exactly like pointers except *possibly* if something gets inlined (and then I believe references and pointers are just as optimizable anyway)
< 1292018063 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: and your brain has not been completely fried yet?
< 1292018083 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Have you seen pictures of me?
< 1292018084 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1292018107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who designed ELF, can I shoot them?
< 1292018113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so freakin' complex X_X
< 1292018113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i realized that after i spoke.  ok, i retract my previous line.
< 1292018171 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: HEY
< 1292018177 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ELF is fucking AWESOME.
< 1292018186 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And why are you trapped in the land of ELFs?
< 1292018196 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*elves
< 1292018202 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ELFs
< 1292018208 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was probably led there by a GNOME
< 1292018209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I've decided that the only way my wimpy coreutils efforts can possibly compete with asmutils is to... , so yeah, I'm writing elf.inc right now with all the ELF header structures.
< 1292018214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I will define macros to assemble them manually :P
< 1292018216 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ELVes then :D
< 1292018221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But SHEESH there is a lot of crap here.
< 1292018270 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@75-174-222-170.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292018300 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That ... explained nothing.
< 1292018320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ld generates big executables. So I'm assembling in a custom ELF header.
< 1292018327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which involves defining the ELF structures in nasm.
< 1292018343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Big = almost 300 bytes when stripped!)
< 1292018396 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1292018445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Explained? :P
< 1292018454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it should have been called GIANT then?
< 1292018461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats oerjan

< 1292018467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an invisible swatter obvs
< 1292018472 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@75-174-222-170.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292018474 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: For some definition of "explained"
< 1292018494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: WHY ARE SECTION HEADERS SO HUGE
< 1292018500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually plausible given that putty shows unknown unicode as space to me
< 1292018549 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although clog sees and reveals all.  well almost all.
< 1292018570 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1292018588 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: PornograFREE.
< 1292018603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What.
< 1292018606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :porn wants to be free
< 1292018629 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is of course a corollary to porn being information
< 1292018634 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292018700 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keys are information
< 1292018720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :information wants to pee
< 1292018736 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Information wants to be Cree.
< 1292018737 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... and according to rule 34/35, information is porn
< 1292018773 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The leaked diplomatic cables are SO HOT
< 1292018858 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, what's the correlation between that and its Kolmogorov complexity?
< 1292018861 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what's rule 35
< 1292018891 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: over 9000
< 1292018915 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the one about if there's no porn of it, it must be made (no exceptions)
< 1292018935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1292018985 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the rule that makes sure rule #34 always applies even when it doesn't (didn't)
< 1292018998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: the one about if there's no porn of it, it must be made (no exceptions)
< 1292018999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not true
< 1292019005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not the statement of the rule
< 1292019007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the statement is:
< 1292019012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If porn of it does not exist, it will be made.
< 1292019025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e.: it's a platonic statement, not a mere order
< 1292019055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO -- speaking theologically -- rule 34 has no exceptions, as it itself states, and rule 35 merely clarifies it
< 1292019056 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you're probably right. seems the end effect of either formulation is the same though
< 1292019064 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so. It is just the way things tend to happen. Or, at least that is what I have heard.
< 1292019072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, for everything, there IS porn of it, but it might not be on the internet, anyone's hard drive, or even in this universe
< 1292019095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rule 35 is merely stating that, upon this being noticed, eventually, porn of it *will* enter this universe, after existing in mathematical platonic concept-space
< 1292019105 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: rule 34 always applies! but when it doesn't, rule 35 makes sure it applies anyway! :)
< 1292019110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, there is porn of it, no exceptions; and if the porn cannot be found, it will be made
< 1292019120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it is not a crude hack, it is an elegant clarification!
< 1292019127 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a tautology with a plus menu
< 1292019131 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it has nothing to do with mathematical platonic concept-space. Just some people like to make pornography of anything so that is why they do so.
< 1292019132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292019139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I pray for your soul.
< 1292019147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe one day you will see the light.
< 1292019157 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not that I LIKE to make pornography of everything.
< 1292019165 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that the Great Guiding Pervert forces me to.
< 1292019184 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like to make pornography of anything, but some people do, so they can have freedom to do so.
< 1292019212 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I expected zzo38 to be more of a pervert
< 1292019315 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Some people think some of my concepts are a bit perverted. However, it is not meant to be.
< 1292019424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: MC!
< 1292019428 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, you made porn of what now?
< 1292019433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: isn't he asexual? pretty sure he's said he's asexual.
< 1292019451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Colour porn.
< 1292019458 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: by choice? :P
< 1292019459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nasty, perverted colour porn -- interracial, non-matching colour porn.
< 1292019461 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other people are the perversion, who thinks FurryScript has something to do with both pornography and Javascript, and gave a (completely stupid) example. In reality, FurryScript has nothing to do with pornography or with Javascript.
< 1292019468 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Gregor or zzo38?
< 1292019470 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you are about to close 123 tabs, do you want to save your session" <--- hell, no that will take forever to open
< 1292019471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo
< 1292019471 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1292019476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner:  Pretty sure he's said he's gay.  by choice? :P
< 1292019478 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also explains the memory usage
< 1292019507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Lesson: just don't go there. :p
< 1292019508 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, zzo38 is asexual, according to his WP user page.
< 1292019518 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: haha, ok
< 1292019534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: creepy, dude :P
< 1292019565 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "ZOMG YOU KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT SOMEONE THAT THEY ADMIT OPENLY" is not a mature mode of conversation.
< 1292019581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I was referring more to the looking up his wikipedia page.
< 1292019590 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in the "not having sex" sense, it can certainly be by not-choice though
< 1292019597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: that's not what asexual means
< 1292019612 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, remembering information from it is not creepy either.
< 1292019629 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not really, no, but that's the sense I used back there
< 1292019656 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia user pages are of course strictly private information.
< 1292019661 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I say it, it means what I mean it to mean, or however that nice quote goes
< 1292019683 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fleebquobble mcflooby screenflib.
< 1292019693 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: quite.
< 1292019710 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: just quibble that flibble-flobble
< 1292019721 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: PERVERT
< 1292019806 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 123 tabs is seriously nothing to worry about
< 1292019864 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This user likes to use redundant userboxes that are redundant. This user likes to use redundant userboxes that are redundant. This user likes to use redundant userboxes that are redundant. This user likes to use redundant userboxes that are redundant. This user likes to use redundant userboxes that are redundant. This user likes to use redundant userboxes that are redundant. This user likes to use redundant userboxes that are redundant.
< 1292019930 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: so you're not the zzo38 on wikipedia?
< 1292019978 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I am the same as the User:Zzo38 on the Wikipedia, that is my user page.
< 1292020013 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks batshit insane
< 1292020060 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I know from here that you're not nearly as batshit insane as that looks
< 1292020118 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hay, I *invented* Icoruma and FurryScript. If you are not perversioned, you might be able to guess the correct usage of FurryScript (or you might not, if you have no information)
< 1292020121 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, did you stalk my Wikipedia page some time back, or did I link it?
< 1292020130 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: And I am a bit insane in some ways though, too.
< 1292020131 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember.
< 1292020137 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not all ways.
< 1292020138 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, insane is good.
< 1292020151 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, "This person does not understand Python (or understands it with considerable difficulties, or does not want to program in Python)."
< 1292020154 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are at war
< 1292020182 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, that statement applies to me too!
< 1292020182 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, this'll be entertaining.
< 1292020185 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, it can be, depending on many things. But often the insane can do good things, and this is good things.
< 1292020202 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the "does not want to program in Python" part
< 1292020218 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[This user knows that 0.999... is exactly 1.]] — zzo38's WP page.
< 1292020224 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: omghaahhahaohwow
< 1292020228 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in nonstandard analysis!
< 1292020239 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Actually since I put that there, I have programmed a few card games in Python, and have modified a drive wipe script written in Python. I don't ever write any of my own new programs in Python, though.
< 1292020282 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292020308 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I suppose then you can use nonstandard analysis? In the standard way, though it is equal. In my opinion it is equal, but it might still be incorrect to use the equivalence sign there; the equal sign is OK there
< 1292020358 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This user can code in XUL"
< 1292020363 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you want to?
< 1292020374 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, well, saying "not in nonstandard analysis" is like saying "2+2 /= 4 in Z_4"; it's an axiomatic thing.
< 1292020379 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless Vonkeror can do XUL, which would surprise me
< 1292020415 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: There is probably not a good reason except for making Mozilla based programs (Vonkeror is Mozilla based)
< 1292020429 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wasn't aware of that
< 1292020457 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Essentially, \lim_{x→\infty}1/x = 0 in standard analysis, but an infinitesimal in nonstandard analysis.
< 1292020478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, sort of...
< 1292020478 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What 2+2 makes is not axiom in TNT.
< 1292020509 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, but it is dependent upon the axioms of the system you're in.
< 1292020529 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes. I guess so. TNT is only for natural numbers, anyways.
< 1292020558 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, have you used a proof assistant in the past?
< 1292020571 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No.
< 1292020639 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe later I will invent a computer program for proof assist if I would have a reason to do so.
< 1292020639 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1292020706 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, making a proof assistant yourself is an exercise in futility unless you have several years of free time and like writing long papers showing that your proof kernel is reliable.
< 1292020767 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you have an intimate understanding of a particular flavour of logic and its implementation into a computational system.
< 1292020858 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know how TNT works (described in Hofstadter's book), and how it could be generalized, and how you could also have macros and so on, so that would work.
< 1292020962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TNT does not a good proof assistant make.
< 1292020982 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there actually any good proof assistants other than Coq?
< 1292020994 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then it can be possible to prove Fermat's Last Theorem in TNT by writing macros and so on.
< 1292021052 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, words fail me on that.
< 1292021071 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would not be interactive, it would only execute the macros which you write and which can be checked according to the current state of the proving system, and so on, and then tell you which ones are valid, and then have a macro check if it is valid to make another proof.
< 1292021075 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's NIH and there's proving Fermat's Last Theorem on a self-written proof assistant.
< 1292021154 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coq, the best, most mature proof assistant I know of, has a barely-understandable non-constructive implementation of the *reals*, let alone the vast towers of mathematics upon which that proof is based.
< 1292021281 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Sgeo/randcolor-hex being broken
< 1292021283 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Coq prove Fermat's Last Theorem?
< 1292021288 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, I still need to learn Coq
< 1292021429 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Coq prove the twin prime conjecture?
< 1292021438 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1292021546 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is again thinking about scientists inside GoL

< 1292021618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No.
< 1292021633 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, in the loosest sense.
< 1292021659 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. they are constructible within its logical framework from an appropriate set of axioms.
< 1292021737 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not the twin prime conjecture since we don't actually know if it's true or not.
< 1292021833 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it _does_ prove the four color theorem, though
< 1292021872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: erm fermat's last theorem might not hold in Coq's logic
< 1292021879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiles' proof wasn't exactly constructive
< 1292021886 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh?
< 1292021888 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292021932 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-32-65.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292021955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ?
< 1292021957 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292021977 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not exactly constructive...?
< 1292021979 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coq...
< 1292021988 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk
< 1292022023 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you constructively prove a universal statement?
< 1292022154 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Fermat's Last Theorem provable in Typographical Number Theory?
< 1292022245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You mean forall x, y?
< 1292022252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a function..
< 1292022259 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair point.
< 1292022261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: erm fermat's last theorem might not hold in Coq's logic
< 1292022262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Wiles' proof wasn't exactly constructive
< 1292022269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i'm saying is, all we have to go on is wiles' proof
< 1292022274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done in very non-constructive logic
< 1292022288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't FALSE in constructivist logic, we know that thanks to wiles
< 1292022290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it might not be provable
< 1292022406 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But do you know if it is possible in TNT? Even if you do not know if it is provable in Coq?
< 1292022433 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1292022498 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, depends entirely on the specific flavour of logic TNT uses.
< 1292022570 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: TNT works entirely by typographical operations of replacing groups of symbols matching a template with other ones.
< 1292022601 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by combining and splitting previous theorems in some ways.
< 1292022853 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ʝ̃ŋʝ̃ŋʝ̃ŋʝ̃ŋʝ̃ŋʝ̃ŋʝ̃ŋʝ̃ŋ]
< 1292022878 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think [ʝ̃] is a sound in any language.  :P
< 1292022999 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it defined in the IPA?
< 1292023019 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.  It's a nasalized voiced palatal fricative.
< 1292023033 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But "nasalized" and "voiced palatal fricative" are separate symbols; you just put the former over the latter.
< 1292023054 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1292023057 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I should say ~ and ʝ are defined in the IPA but ʝ̃ is not.
< 1292023204 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, the joys of making up stupid phonemes.
< 1292023237 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1292023250 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a sound, not a phoneme.  If it were a phoneme, it would be /ʝ̃/ instead of [ʝ̃].  :P
< 1292023287 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The sound written ‹r› in Mandarin has an odd history; for example, it has been borrowed into Japanese as both [z] and [n]. It seems likely that it was once a nasalized fricative, perhaps a palatal [ʝ̃]."
< 1292023323 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was, of course, just speculation.
< 1292023347 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, *prod*
< 1292023351 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Mandarin apparently doesn't have that sound now, or else it would say.
< 1292023378 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you must see the underground dock I built in MC. only thing remaining is adding some wooden piers + some pirate feel to it
< 1292023382 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or smugglers maybe
< 1292023390 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smugglers is better
< 1292023392 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292023404 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it have a ramp going up to the ocean?
< 1292023420 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, it has a drop shaft and a boatlevator
< 1292023428 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, both in the middle of the ocean
< 1292023436 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, the boatlevator ends at the sea bottom
< 1292023449 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; it does list some other nasalized fricatives (which to a Finnish speaker is a bit strange-sounding concept in the first place); "Some of the South Arabic languages have phonemic nasalized fricatives, such as /z̃/, which sounds something like a simultaneous [n] and [z]."
< 1292023454 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not that particular one, no.
< 1292023468 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: cool.
< 1292023493 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's a strange idea to me, too.  I would be surprised if English had them.
< 1292023645 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ever.
< 1292023738 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rule 34 roulette
< 1292023756 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is Rule 34 roulette?
< 1292023766 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The world's greatest idea.
< 1292023778 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how does it work?
< 1292023782 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just roulette with different rules (one rule, in fact - rule 34)
< 1292023828 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what is that rule? Is that the only number on the board?
< 1292023844 0 :Goosey!~goose124@99-60-156-25.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292023898 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, the internet is full of numbers
< 1292023965 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I took a look at the Internet once and found that, while it had a lot of numbers in it, it also had a lot of pointers and mutexes.
< 1292024025 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does rule 34 work?
< 1292024050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292024248 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cannot really write a proper syntax highlighter for TeX or for Forth, but METAFONT and FurryScript can be properly syntax coloring.
< 1292024280 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With Forth, it is possible, however, to prettyprint a program while it is executing.)
< 1292024285 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FurryScript?  What is this language whose name catches mine eye?
< 1292024299 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett:  http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/furry/
< 1292024351 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have ideas for additional scripts, you can suggest and/or write them. (Sorry, no documentation yet. You can look at the files in the scripts/ directory for examples)
< 1292024414 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any questions so far? There probably is one, at least.
< 1292024445 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any documentation that isn't code?
< 1292024462 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I should learn to read
< 1292024469 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Unfortunately not. But we can work together to write some.
< 1292024510 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it TC?
< 1292024567 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I believe so.
< 1292024592 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1292024609 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I am not completely sure.
< 1292024760 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you think?
< 1292024784 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should make a language whose TC-ness is undeterminable. And as soon as I thought that, I start thinking that it's already been done
< 1292024816 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: There is one that is dependent on Goldbach conjecture
< 1292025019 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully the files available in scripts/ is enough to understand most of the features of FurryScript so that you can write a code in FurryScript.
< 1292025040 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that programming language where a program is a series of fractions?  Is it called "Bag" or something?
< 1292025050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: fractran; bag is iirc oerjan's extension of it
< 1292025074 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I just realized that Fractran is equivalent to some other language, and then I realized that that other language is also equivalent to Fractran.
< 1292025078 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY MIND IS SO PROFOUND.
< 1292025079 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fractornran
< 1292025484 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are other programs with similar purpose to FurryScript exists, but as far as I know the other programs are weaker and not as clean.
< 1292025722 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Please tell me whether or not any of this makes any sense to you.
< 1292025747 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292025813 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292025867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Please tell me you feel a great surge of pride every day knowing you created {{purge}}.
< 1292025915 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that makes sense.
< 1292025940 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Does the files I linked makes sense to you?
< 1292025958 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION isn't sure how serious elliott is, but I am somewhat glad I made some somewhat widely used contribution

< 1292026040 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, if I can figure out how it's used today, since I certainly don't see a purge link on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Buffer_overflow
< 1292026056 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also made http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Wstress3d
< 1292026283 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh, those files.  I didn't look closely at them.
< 1292026316 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo created Wikipedia's {{purge}}?
< 1292026375 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have as much claim to it as I have to Wikihack and Creatures Wiki
< 1292026390 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I created a page number template which was once used on Wikipedia, that template is now gone, however.
< 1292026433 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is probably the most significant thing I ever posted on Wikipedia, except for a few userboxes I created, some of which (but only a few!) are used by other users too.
< 1292026459 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of my Wikipedia edits are removing commas.
< 1292026469 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1292026503 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have done some minor changes like that too, but I think it was never removing commas, as far as I know.
< 1292026588 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to see which userboxes that I have created are used by other user pages, go to edit on my user page, and then on the list of templates see things started with "User:Zzo38/Userboxes/" scrolled there, click on each one and select "What links here" to see what pages used that template.
< 1292026629 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-32-212.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292026641 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[User:Zzo38/Userboxes/cmdline]] seems to be the one used the most.
< 1292026789 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If GoL scientists discovered the glider, would they assume that it has "phases" that it exists in
< 1292026803 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gliders in phase 1 react a certain way, gliders in phase 2 act differently
< 1292026804 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc
< 1292026814 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although presumably macro-level objects are mostly resistant
< 1292026822 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or self-repairing
< 1292026892 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night →
< 1292026896 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nigh
< 1292026897 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t
< 1292026949 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that's very likely.  They might not even discover until the very end that the two things are both gliders.
< 1292027058 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they might discover that glider guns seem to produce one or the other or both seemingly at random
< 1292027077 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(depending on how they position the target object, but they wouldn't know that)
< 1292027156 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, they'd... only see one at a time, they wouldn't see both eminating at once
< 1292027253 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that's an interesting idea - if their life form has a consistent global phase with some large cycle number, like our own molecules have chirality...
< 1292027283 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if the cycle length is even, then the two phases of glider _would_ have different biological effects
< 1292027359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D
< 1292027366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish GoL was the universe, it's cooler than this one
< 1292027446 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Out of phase" has more meaning in their universe than it does in ours
< 1292027450 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they would probably still be capable of producing chaos in scientific experiments, assuming their universe contained some to start with
< 1292027534 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about the orientation of the glider?
< 1292027570 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, as in, it kind of has 4 phases, 2 of which are just reflections of the other 2
< 1292027589 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1292027597 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they might see 4 different kinds
< 1292027676 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also if their life form has parts that are always directed in the same way globally, then they might even find gliders traveling in different directions to be different
< 1292027715 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, didn't think of that
< 1292027734 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's.. interesting
< 1292027742 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they might need to do experiments with chaos in order to discover the simpler fundamental rules
< 1292027786 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does it have to take on such an existance. Why not a different form of life, more like a single sentient being?
< 1292027787 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :life could have global symmetry phases both in position on the grid, timing, and direction
< 1292027789 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, Sgeo ^
< 1292027795 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depending how little/much their smallest movement is (if they can move), they'd notice that building a glider gun in different places results in different gliders?
< 1292027797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: very irrelevant to this hypothetical.
< 1292027819 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292027822 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh?
< 1292027833 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: except without chaos to investigate they might not even recognize building a glider gun in different places as the same operation
< 1292027890 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...huh
< 1292027916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they might have to use entirely different methods to build them 1 place shifted
< 1292028170 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would they even get a correct value for c?
< 1292028207 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things in a vacuum have a maximum speed that's lower than c, right?
< 1292028245 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :periodic things, yes
< 1292028267 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a long line still expands at c, but it gets shorter in the process
< 1292028453 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Max speed in a vacuum in Life is c/2, IIRC.
< 1292028486 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking that we should make a simulation that lets us pretend to be GoL Scientists, but we don't know what good manipulatory .. manipulations are reasonable
< 1292028811 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wow, amazing lava + water cavern
< 1292029063 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there items in GoL with a small number of parents?
< 1292029089 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps some life might evolve with a finite resource, a pattern that is involved with some reaction that ends up returning just that pattern
< 1292029110 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Said pattern has no parents other than reactions in which the pattern is part of the parent
< 1292029136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Are there items in GoL with a small number of parents?
< 1292029140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are items with 0.
< 1292029156 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have said non-zero
< 1292029621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :93 true
< 1292029623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is more f'n like it!
< 1292029629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Okay, I love ELF now (since I got it working.)
< 1292029637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's even a pretty "istruc", too!
< 1292029641 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1292029658 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dslreports.com/r0/download/1606057~0c86508b26b11f6901e6989a7b4e327c/Soeed.JPG From a recent FCC survey on broadband in the US.
< 1292029689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://sprunge.us/TjZS true.s :P
< 1292029711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (I am not at all sure "xor al, al    inc al" works reliably if anything above the low byte of eax is set.)
< 1292029721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure how much the kernel looks at, for a syscall, or what guarantees there are on eax's initial value in Linux :P
< 1292029724 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl
< 1292029739 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that by the FCC's current standards on what "broadband" is, 58% of US broadband connections aren't.
< 1292029765 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine most assuredly is not.
< 1292029768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Still, dude, 92 bytes! Not bad!
< 1292029780 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 4 Mbps down and 1 Mbps up?
< 1292029784 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: A shell script would be shorter ;)
< 1292029786 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Nope.
< 1292029788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to go further in the Whirlwind page and pick the one that stays remotely sane :P
< 1292029794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not if you add /bin/sh's size :P
< 1292029810 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292029816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Thing I learned reading sco.com (lawl)'s copy of the ELF header specification thing: ELFs can set an interpreter. Seriously.
< 1292029820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who needs shebangs?!
< 1292029820 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm assuming, based on my brilliance, that you have to include /bin/sh ANYWAY.
< 1292029821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But remember, "we're number one!".
< 1292029837 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That is actually how dynamic linking works.
< 1292029840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not if you don't need it!
< 1292029842 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Calling that an interpreter is a bit misleading, although that is the spec, that's where you put /lib/ld.so
< 1292029844 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The dynamic linker is set as the interpreter.
< 1292029845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, indeed.
< 1292029850 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say their biological cycle is a multiple of 4
< 1292029859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But what if you wrote an ELF/esolang polyglot? :p
< 1292029862 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They see gliders as 4 distinct particles, don't see the connect
< 1292029863 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why not just "xor eax, eax" + "inc eax"? It's not any longer.
< 1292029866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or /anylang, but I doubt most languages would accept such silly :P
< 1292029870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It is? Oh, wonderful. :p
< 1292029873 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But yeah, it could be an invalid ELF otherwise, just enough to get passed into an interpreter :P
< 1292029873 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens when they come across a 5... thingy item
< 1292029883 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, but the ld.so actually gets passed the file. :)
< 1292029898 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might they eventually deduce that the 4 particles are in fact the same, similar to the 5-phase item?
< 1292029898 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1292029903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Kudos to the first person to write an ELF/something else polyglot with the something-else set as the interpreter :P
< 1292029910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could actually set your ELF files to load using qemu. :P
< 1292029915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Mega kudos if it's a quine.
< 1292029929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Only if you lied about architecture and the like :P
< 1292029931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, it'd only really work if the file in question is statically linked.)
< 1292029937 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Should be possible with BF.
< 1292029937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://sprunge.us/TjZS true.s!
< 1292029949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That's so close to cheating that I don't like it :P
< 1292029954 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :)
< 1292029956 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1292029967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Like polyglots where the other languages are all in comments.
< 1292029972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, man, you gotta use dual meanings!
< 1292029995 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-41-56.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292030009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why my version of true is two bytes larger than his 42...
< 1292030022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps nasm changed the instructions generated somehow, but I doubt it.
< 1292030030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the, what, 11 years since that article was written)
< 1292030036 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It is in fact one byte shorter with eax:
< 1292030038 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00000000  30C0              xor al,al
< 1292030038 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00000002  FEC0              inc al
< 1292030038 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00000004  31C0              xor eax,eax
< 1292030038 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00000006  40                inc eax
< 1292030043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What luck.
< 1292030106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Note that the last eight bytes in the ELF header bear a certain kind of resemblence to the first eight bytes in the program header table. A certain kind of resemblence that might be described as "identical".]]
< 1292030110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some phrasings I just love.
< 1292030193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OTOH "xor ebx, ebx" seems to be bigger than "xor bx, bx" here.
< 1292030217 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shouldn't, in 32-bit mode.
< 1292030246 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One will require a prefix byte, but it should be the one that's not the "native" size.
< 1292030266 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ndisasm defaults to -b 16 though.)
< 1292030305 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I found a VAST lava + water cavern
< 1292030310 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got lost in it for half an hour
< 1292030314 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before I found my way back
< 1292030318 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fizzie ^
< 1292030333 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, just 30 second walk from underground dock
< 1292030355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides that 93 bytes is acceptable for true

< 1292030357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shocking, I know.
< 1292030363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to interleave with the ELF header.
< 1292030408 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's harder to interleave with the structs anyway. :p
< 1292030424 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you realise you will NEVER use less than min(page-size,disk-sector-size)
< 1292030489 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292030500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: untrue
< 1292030506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you, e.g., pack it all into one file
< 1292030518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: not really, well yes ehdr and phdr, but not putting the code into ehdr
< 1292030521 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well okay
< 1292030524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: since it's basically just macros :P
< 1292030540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anyway it's not about saving disk space, which I have in abundance
< 1292030575 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also don't the filesystems do tail-packing nowadays anyway?
< 1292030599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's more about coding asceticism, for fun and also to remind myself facilis descensus Averni.
< 1292030612 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At least experimentally.)
< 1292030614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Whereby Avernus I clearly mean bloated code.)
< 1292030799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/code/crtls$ make; wc -c true
< 1292030800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make: Nothing to be done for `all'.
< 1292030800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :94 true
< 1292030800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/code/crtls$ make; wc -c true
< 1292030800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nasm -f bin true.s -o true
< 1292030800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chmod +x true
< 1292030802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :93 true
< 1292030808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I replaced "xor ebx, ebx" with "xor bx, bx".
< 1292030810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear, it's smaller.
< 1292030823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bl is the same as bx.
< 1292030835 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure you're assembling with bits 32?
< 1292030846 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not the default with -f bin.
< 1292030857 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00000007  31DB              xor ebx,ebx
< 1292030857 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00000009  6631DB            xor bx,bx
< 1292030857 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000000C  30DB              xor bl,bl
< 1292030874 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are the three variants with ndisasm -b 32.
< 1292030885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Indeed I was not! Oops.
< 1292030900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now my size matches Raiter's, too. Joy.
< 1292030911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: And the two variants are the same, as well, although ebx is probably "nicer".
< 1292030936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real	0m0.001s
< 1292030937 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I sleeps now.)
< 1292030940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the fastest true I've ever seen!
< 1292030942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASM POWER!
< 1292031042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When Linux starts up a new executable, one of the things it does is zero out the accumulator (as well as most of the other registers). Taking advantage of this fact would have allowed me to remove the xor, bringing the program down to five bytes. However, this behavior is certainly not documented, and there's no guarantee that it can be counted on to stay that way (other than the lack of any obvious reason to change it)."
< 1292031048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Methinks I will not rely on that. :p
< 1292031074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without any code, my ELF spooge takes up 84 bytes. I think that is an acceptable smallest program size :P
< 1292031183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My eyes love me so much for this new theme.
< 1292031535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"VbeSignature should be set to 'VBE2' when function is called to indicate VBE3.0"
< 1292031750 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... guh?
< 1292031765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: From the Plan 9 fortune file :P
< 1292031830 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292031878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If emacs buffers were limited to the size of memory, it would not be possible to
< 1292031878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :edit /dev/mem."
< 1292031885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a profound and yet utterly insane statement.
< 1292032029 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What we need is the computer game allowing adjusting all the rules, including: days played, hours played per day, season, wind, gravitational field strength, match condition, players per team, wicket strength, field diameter, field eccentricity, pitch length, leg bye toggle, LBW toggle, time limits, etc.
< 1292032114 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It shouldn't make much sense to edit /dev/mem directly in emacs though!?
< 1292032147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would be great is editing the part of Emacs' memory that pertains to the open /dev/mem buffer.
< 1292032155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Emacsen all the way down!
< 1292032183 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Figure out if you can do that.
< 1292032215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No :P Thinking about Emacs makes my head hurt, I just use the thing and pretend it doesn't exist.
< 1292032264 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then figure out if you know anything about making a computer game like I described.
< 1292032305 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many computer games allow adjusting gravitational field strength?
< 1292032334 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to see if I can watch the first ep of DS9
< 1292032358 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Then do watch the first ep of DS9
< 1292032394 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no, he's just going to check if he _can_.  for the principle of it.
< 1292032423 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, check if you can.
< 1292032441 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, are there simple 5... thing spaceships?
< 1292032450 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i have no idea
< 1292032457 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the description I made, what other rules are needed adjustment, I think?
< 1292032464 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has got a new shell account on an OpenBSD box

< 1292032467 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION likes

< 1292032469 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, ones with an odd number of ... I want to call them phases
< 1292032481 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Next time see if you can watch DS999
< 1292032518 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No, you have to call them phones. Even if it is incorrect.
< 1292032600 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night →
< 1292032654 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again?
< 1292032665 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again??
< 1292032720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal goes to bed about 5 times every night.
< 1292032730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he dilutes the usage of → to a hideous degree.
< 1292032746 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION points a glider gun at Vorpal

< 1292032767 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Maybe he has the macro set up to do that, and he didn't bother to change it.
< 1292032767 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal is secretly a hamster
< 1292032798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i approve of this theory
< 1292032819 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they eventually work out that these four c/4 diagonally-moving particles that move in the same direction are one and the same, might they end up lumping in other spaceships that are also c/4 in the same direction?
< 1292032847 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As they lazily assume that that's the best observable distinguishing characteristic
< 1292032905 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :day
< 1292032909 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292032979 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if they don't directly observe that the 4 phases are similar, but guess it from a 5-phase ship or something
< 1292034379 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh... IPv6 in practice is just a one big Charlie Foxtrot. Well, if you take all the RFCs about it, it is a decent network-layer protocol, but the practical implementation is just CF.
< 1292034476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: YAY PEOPLE
< 1292034498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: This is why technical specifications must be flawless and completely-specified; then it'll only be a major clusterfuck, rather than a gigantic one!
< 1292034506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And that's really the best you can hope for.)
< 1292034563 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is not incomplete specifications that are the problem... It is the "not implemented yet" and "broken in practice" stuff...
< 1292034693 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and then there's still that great IPv6 routing split (really really bad)...
< 1292034882 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with IPv6 implementations? Beside the fact that they're not used?
< 1292035017 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#1) The great routing split #2) Hosts that think they have IPv6 connectivity but don't #3) Last mile issues #4) Low adoption on client side.
< 1292035049 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1292035080 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-239-57.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292035123 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and then there's DNS whitelisting. It just won't scale.
< 1292035159 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The complexity isn't linear, it is quadric, and the n is very large.
< 1292035321 0 :donglongchao!donglongch@112.0.38.187 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292035323 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DNS. Whitelisting
< 1292035325 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.
< 1292035356 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what that means, but please tell me it's more sane than it sounds
< 1292035397 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alsol, what's the great routing split?
< 1292035490 0 :donglongchao!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292035634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realise how badly I was treating my eyes before this.
< 1292035744 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If GoL life _doesn't_ have a NORTH or whatever, and can rotate, they might discover that 2 of the phases are just the other two upside down
< 1292035751 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or might not, I guess
< 1292035766 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they'd think there are 2 distinct particles instead of 4
< 1292035780 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I calling it a "particle"?
< 1292035794 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I'm mistaken, aren't I?
< 1292035807 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ?
< 1292035816 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, n/
< 1292035817 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m
< 1292035823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ?
< 1292035836 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I didn't realise how badly I was treating my eyes before this.
< 1292035862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I've upped all my font sizes and made my theme a bit nicer on the eyes :P
< 1292035884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Specifically everything's about 12pt now, although what I actually did was set my PPI properly, so it's still set at 10pt.
< 1292035885 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should wear polarized computer-viewing glasses like meeeeeeeeeeeee :P
< 1292035887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the point is it's big.
< 1292035893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Do you... actually do that?
< 1292035901 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Have for years.
< 1292035914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the problem was that 10pt fonts when X thinks your display is 96 ppi and you actually have a 120 ppi laptop display that you sit away from = LOL PAIN
< 1292035924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But why.
< 1292035940 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Because after I sit in front of a computer without them for an hour or so, my eyes start to scream at me.
< 1292035977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What do they even change, anyway? Visually. :p
< 1292036002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My eyes have adapted to staring at a computer screen for countless hours at a time. Surprisingly I don't need glasses and have better-than-average vision even after all these years...
< 1292036009 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Uhh, everything looks yellow? They reduce glare? I'm really not sure, but I know that they work, and believe their affect to be stronger than placebo.
< 1292036024 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have great vision, my eyes just burn after staring at a computer for a while :P
< 1292036026 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, it probably isn't.
< 1292036117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Everything looking yellow sounds "fun"
< 1292036122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: As in "no thanks" :P
< 1292036277 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You certainly lack faith in your mind's ability to adapt to scenarios w.r.t. vision.
< 1292036319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But dude, all the porno would become ASIAN!
< 1292036326 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1292036329 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*clap clap*
< 1292036484 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have no problem looking at a computer screen for 12+ hours at a time
< 1292036491 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, actually, I do go eat sometimes
< 1292036509 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Coyote finally caught me
< 1292036640 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Your computer doesn't feed you? Ha.
< 1292038396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I eat my keys.
< 1292038409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I's geng qui difficu o ype
< 1292038414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ge||ing
< 1292038448 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I eat my cryptographic keys.
< 1292038476 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's getting quite difficult to 0x8fd0113ab9c04e
< 1292038568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i eat chips
< 1292038569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1292038571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computer chips
< 1292038573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha! ha!
< 1292038574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha!
< 1292038576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha!
< 1292038633 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beep boop
< 1292039755 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay the newest uTorrent is ugly as fuck
< 1292039761 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it so ugly
< 1292039772 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes me feel like they are making programs for retards
< 1292039790 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all big pictures and "lawl it's a search thing too"
< 1292039805 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION points out that _is_ a possibility

< 1292039816 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that that
< 1292039950 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have there been any big surveys in the last couple of years about which terminal emulators people use?
< 1292040007 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are enough people using terminal emulators for a big survey?
< 1292040027 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and/or virtual terminals
< 1292040037 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically everything that can speak vt
< 1292040038 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there are glider guns with odd periods, if they're constructed, the GoL scientists should see that some guns emit the 4 (what they think are distinct) while others only 1, right?
< 1292040073 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you'd think
< 1292040105 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not entirely sure if they'd make the right inference from that, but surely it would help
< 1292040139 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that doesn't really prove anything, you could be able to make something that emit the 4 without doing it in a periodic way
< 1292040158 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even something that emit precisely 3 of them...
< 1292040218 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*emitted
< 1292040432 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-software-2/what-is-your-favorite-terminal-emulator-442024/
< 1292040445 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame.  why does konsole have such an overwhelming number of users?
< 1292040464 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People like KDE?
< 1292040468 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i know the answer...default kde and all that)
< 1292040475 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is aterm default on something?
< 1292040487 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's with the Konsole hate?
< 1292040512 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use konsole on XFCE.
< 1292040513 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i found it fat, slow and ugly?
< 1292040517 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :konsole is the best terminal emulator there is.
< 1292040532 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has nice bindings, tab support, scrollback, ...
< 1292040566 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has lots of gui stuff that mostly just got on my nerves
< 1292040585 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but again: is aterm default for anyone?
< 1292040592 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: It has ... almost no GUI stuff, and what little it has is all disable-able, like most KDE stuff.
< 1292040789 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: perhaps it is that i am using a relatively slow computer and frequently at a very low resolution
< 1292040808 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could be an issue :P
< 1292040917 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION again ponders switching his Ubuntu install to Kubuntu

< 1292041552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : have there been any big surveys in the last couple of years about which terminal emulators people use?
< 1292041556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um it's hardly a subject of holy wars
< 1292041593 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use vimterm
< 1292041734 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i don't intend to start a major holy war.  i just wanted to have my finger on the pulse of common preference
< 1292042085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really irrelevant
< 1292042091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're never going to see major innovations in vt100 emulation
< 1292042099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's undeniable
< 1292042104 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1292042127 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to agree with Gregor
< 1292042132 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Konsole is the superior terminal emulator
< 1292042147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really get what konsole does that gnome-terminal doesn't, to be honest
< 1292042168 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urls
< 1292042181 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copy-paste keyboard shortcuts
< 1292042199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: gnome-terminal does urls.
< 1292042202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and copy-paste keyboard shortcuts.
< 1292042239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so/
< 1292042241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*so...?
< 1292042242 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hrm
< 1292042252 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe some other term was running last time I used non-konsole then
< 1292042257 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort of assumed it was gnome-term
< 1292042259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably xterm ...
< 1292042284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gnome-terminal is actually pretty darn configurable
< 1292042286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike most gnome programs :)
< 1292042410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: anyway copy-paste shortcuts are for noobs, learn to use selections
< 1292042433 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: fuck them
< 1292042442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: seriously?
< 1292042449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're the only thing X does for me that I like. :)
< 1292042468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The X server has to be the biggest program I've ever seen that doesn't do anything for you." --Ken Thompson
< 1292042468 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate trying to remember what the last thing I selected is
< 1292042475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that's not how you do it...
< 1292042485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you select what you want, immediately move to where you want it, and press the middle button
< 1292042491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing in-between
< 1292042502 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, and that last step is where I have trouble
< 1292042514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have trouble pressing the middle button?
< 1292042521 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1292042525 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nothing in-between bit
< 1292042548 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I hate my algebra prof
< 1292042582 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second half of the course to me was roughly equivalent to taking a pull-string doll
< 1292042587 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that says "polynomials"
< 1292042588 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"root"
< 1292042591 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"irreducible"
< 1292042594 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"finite field"
< 1292042597 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"irreducible"
< 1292042600 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"polynomials"
< 1292042687 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :galois galois galois
< 1292042694 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thankfully none of that
< 1292043463 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why wouldn't the Second Law of Thermodynamics apply in GoL? Isn't it a statistical thing, rather than a physical thing?
< 1292043532 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe I'm confused
< 1292043623 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for a start it's not clear that the _first_ law applies
< 1292043705 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Second rely on First?
< 1292043721 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems rather clear that the First law does NOT apply
< 1292043740 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for the second, there is probably some way to apply the informational interpretation of it to GoL, yes.  but i think that without the first law and the link between them the consequences might not be as strong
< 1292043785 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, you still have free energy
< 1292043791 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*"energy"
< 1292043797 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can go from an active state to a dead state, but not dead to active
< 1292043810 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*completely dead
< 1292043850 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking that that's.. something
< 1292043850 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more importantly, you cannot increase the information content
< 1292043864 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether or not you have active states
< 1292043868 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRB
< 1292043911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ping
< 1292044155 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ack
< 1292044193 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O viously, I wore out my  key
< 1292044252 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the equivalent of heat in GoL?
< 1292044262 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, closest equiv
< 1292044417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea that is not essentially "looks lively"
< 1292044625 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we attempt to make GoL life via evolution, we should make sure that it's absolutely full of a pattern F such that all ancestors of F contain more than one copy of F in some generation
< 1292044636 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that those otherwise immortal ****s can know mortality
< 1292044711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wow -- Brian Raiter, dissatisfied with a 45-byte program returning 42, made a 45-byte program that acts as either true or false, depending on how you invoke it.
< 1292044714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/true.asm.txt
< 1292044716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impressive.
< 1292044796 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Does it work if invoked as "/bin/true" instead of "true"?
< 1292044815 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292044819 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292044823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It only checks one byte near the end of argv[0], so "yes".
< 1292044843 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, with maybe one ancestor of F that contains 1 F, but that should be stilllifeish or something
< 1292044869 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmmm, near the end ... clever, also impressive to keep it so small.
< 1292044909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm too much of a wimp, and have complete ELF headers in my programs. :)
< 1292044915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Albeit far smaller ones than you'd expect.
< 1292044926 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhh :P
< 1292044935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Still, 91-byte true and false ain't bad :P
< 1292044939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even use symbolic names for the fields and values! I want my money's worth out of elf.inc, it was a bitch to write.
< 1292044946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I copied large swathes of the ELF specification in there.)
< 1292044966 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, earlier, I was thinking that something similar [but less brutal [all ancestors of F contain as much F as the child]] would help foster competition and assist in the evolution of intelligent life
< 1292045058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hopefully I can manage to write cat(1) without going insane.
< 1292045066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And next, why, mount(8)! Or, er, eventually.
< 1292045081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pride myself in being A Slightly Better-Maintained asmutils With More Naffness.
< 1292045088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(My true and false are smaller though!!)
< 1292045140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should make macros for these :P
< 1292045149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(These = standard ELF junk.)
< 1292045577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523logread: http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/intercal/os2diff.txt does this still suffice for using c-intercal on os/2?
< 1292045923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1292046606 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1292046697 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292047044 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292047266 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"These 16 particles [4 in each direction] cause damage to biological tissue. Fortunately, the damage is usually automatically repaired by our bodies. All 16 particles travel at the same speed."
< 1292047291 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what the hell?
< 1292047322 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^not an actual quote from anything
< 1292047327 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: BE AFRAID
< 1292047368 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just what I'm imagining as possible incorrect knowledge in GoLverse
< 1292047380 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is GoL?
< 1292047386 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why is it so brainhurty
< 1292047389 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Game of Life
< 1292047458 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because we're speculating what a completely alien form of life might think about the universe around them
< 1292047478 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And said universe has very, very little in common with ours
< 1292047618 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292047627 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are more than 4 directions in Life
< 1292047637 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gliders can only travel in 4
< 1292047659 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I se
< 1292047665 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason, I'm obsessed with gliders
< 1292047671 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What they think of gliders
< 1292047718 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan suggested that if they have a universal-to-their-form-of-life UP, then they might not notice that a NW glider is the same thing as a NE glider
< 1292047752 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if there's a biological ... clock thing that's a multiple of 4, the phases of a glider might be seen as distinct and unrelated particles
< 1292047767 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I guess that also assumes that they move at distances that are multiples of four
< 1292048098 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Coyote finally caught me
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< 1292048604 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1292048943 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you awake/
< 1292049061 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does "Amount of blocks destroyed when deterministically placed all at a certain distance from live cells after X amount of time" sound as a definition of heat/
< 1292049125 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, 'deterministically placed' would need to be replaced with an algorihm, I mean
< 1292049131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that's something to measure, at least
< 1292049165 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funky IETF working group names: 6lowpan, multimob, softwire, dime, grow, bliss, drinks, martini, mmusic, salud, splices, forces, dane, emu, hokey, kitten, ledbat and storm.
< 1292049289 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blinkers shouldn't be considered to have heat, should they? (Given any distance above um, a very small number, used in the definition, they don't)
< 1292049337 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, then, a sufficiently dense immobile object doesn't have heat, even if there's a lot of internal activity :/
< 1292049357 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :External heat?
< 1292049370 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's certainly not causing things around it to move, seeing as it's immobile
< 1292049394 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, immobile and not giving stuff off
< 1292049400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way to measure it is only going to be an approximation, anyhow, while waiting for their scientists to develop a deeper understanding
< 1292049479 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to clarify: Deeper than us? Or are we trying to think of what THEY'd use as a definition? I was being selfish
< 1292049498 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'm sure they would have a deeper than us understanding of larger scale stuff
< 1292049501 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well both
< 1292050747 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What could we do to attempt to identify life? Intelligent life/
< 1292050844 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...also raising a question, what if WE are in a simulation, and our watchers have limited means to identify intelligent life?
< 1292050855 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should we do something that might be recognizable somehow?
< 1292051122 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Anyway, good night
< 1292052939 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@k-224.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292053755 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292054399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
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< 1292056838 0 :andywang!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
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< 1292056997 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292057289 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@k-224.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292058129 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292058203 0 :nopseudoidea!~nopseudoi@85-168-235-235.rev.numericable.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292058221 0 :nopseudoidea!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1292058334 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-15-236.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292061226 0 :Macstheyjustsuck!~Cyrus@76.247.98.91 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292061257 0 :Macstheyjustsuck!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292061517 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292063192 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1292064240 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.81.221 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292064812 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292065748 0 :Georgey!~Kalleos@host10.natpool.mwn.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292065765 0 :Georgey!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292068133 0 :ishagua!~ishagua@117.136.9.242 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292068152 0 :ishagua!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292069055 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MoveCraft empties chests when used. How irksome.
< 1292069559 0 :kfdsfdsafdsaf!~user@59.34.3.4 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292069656 0 :kfdsfdsafdsaf!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292070355 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292070361 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292070997 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it has a 1000 block limit. "$£%"£$%^
< 1292071036 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A changeable limit, but I suspect the ROU will slow things horrifically. I give up.
< 1292073830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: ping <-- pong
< 1292073864 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : he dilutes the usage of → to a hideous degree. <-- well in that case I had planned to go to bed before, but then forgot it
< 1292073869 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it was exactly 2 times
< 1292075281 0 :ppseeker!~ppseeker@221.212.116.34 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292075342 0 :ppseeker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~
< 1292075869 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it only me who thinks that the lambda calculus page on WP should use $tags\; around\; expressions\; rather\; than$?
< 1292075939 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no
< 1292075944 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but luckily, WP is a W
< 1292075946 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not merely a P
< 1292075968 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but doing things like that will tend to bring down the screaming hoardes of bureaucrats.
< 1292076029 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it wont
< 1292076041 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's only one way to find out!
< 1292076062 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292076159 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Urgh, the tags aren't even ; they're .
< 1292076242 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1292076284 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Previewing this will be fun...
< 1292076440 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the LaTeX macro thingy for ↦?
< 1292076494 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, \mapsto
< 1292076842 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if it's justifiable to be annoyed at people calling the lambda calculus "code".

< 1292076981 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, forget it. That page is beyond easy repair.
< 1292076985 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: depends. do you think LC is a programming language?
< 1292076989 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooo dont stop!
< 1292076996 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MUST
< 1292077031 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, I'm trying to convert horrific HTML formatting into nice LaTeX formatting on a huge article with lots of the former.
< 1292077048 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a job for a script!
< 1292077086 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can fix the various lexing errors etc., but spacing &stupidhtmlentities; have sapped my resolve.
< 1292077248 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I suck at scripting things.
< 1292078215 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292078808 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292078833 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292079105 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1292079437 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ Many programmers have created and promoted the computer programming language known as "open source code" to be shared on public sites at no cost, but licensing issues are murky.]] — Reuters.
< 1292079460 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall make this language, and write an absurdly incomprehensible licence for it.
< 1292079789 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292079811 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1292079843 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :journalists are extremely ignorant in all fields
< 1292080091 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except journalism, naturally.
< 1292080102 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is not a particularly high endorsement.
< 1292080117 0 :jack!~jack@host-150-203.consiagnet.it JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292080134 0 :jack!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Jackoz
< 1292081521 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is tempted to add ""Goths don't do anything bad in the UK," I say "They're a gentle and essentially middle-class subculture."" to the head of TV Tropes' article on goths.

< 1292081635 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292082564 0 :Jackoz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Jackoz
< 1292082590 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1292083585 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292083718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:32:45  Funky IETF working group names: 6lowpan, multimob, softwire, dime, grow, bliss, drinks, martini, mmusic, salud, splices, forces, dane, emu, hokey, kitten, ledbat and storm.
< 1292083721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: wat :D
< 1292083752 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And out of those, dane was IIRC annouced less than 48 hours ago...
< 1292083767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:00:44  ...also raising a question, what if WE are in a simulation, and our watchers have limited means to identify intelligent life?
< 1292083768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:00:55  Should we do something that might be recognizable somehow?
< 1292083782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no reason to believe they could recognise our actions at all.
< 1292083789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there is also no reason to believe that they *want* sentient life.
< 1292083864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ping2
< 1292083896 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: The orignal name for 'dane' was rejected for being too similar to 'kitten' (which is existing working group).
< 1292084011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: do the names have any meaning? :P
< 1292084075 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the formatting in the WP article on the lambda calculus is awful.
< 1292084080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm fixing it now.
< 1292084093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fully expect to get reverted for daring to be an anonymous IP and making such a sweeping change of evil.
< 1292084110 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your soul must be greatly uncompressible.
< 1292084115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[The [[identity function]] $I(x)\; =\; x$ takes a single input, ''x'', and immediately returns ''x'']]
< 1292084117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahaahahaha.
< 1292084120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how they phrase it imperatively.
< 1292084124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no, I am here to fix formatting alone.
< 1292084154 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of apparently acronyms...
< 1292084169 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that section is not for the intelligent. It is for the kind of idiot who thinks of everything imperatively.
< 1292084275 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No doubt choosen for amusement potential...
< 1292084315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Amusingly, this actually looks uglier with the default math formatting (do it in HTML for simple stuff).
< 1292084316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH WELL!
< 1292084470 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, use some terrible hack to force it into formatting with TeX always!
< 1292084477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No :P
< 1292084566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: If this gets reverted I'll replace the λ-calculus article on Esolang (pretty sure we have one) with a merger of it and my revision of the Wikipedia page.
< 1292084587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    x[x := N]        ≡ N
< 1292084587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    y[x := N]        ≡ y, if x ≠ y
< 1292084587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    (M1 M2)[x := N]  ≡ (M1[x := N]) (M2[x := N])
< 1292084587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    (λy.M)[x := N]   ≡ λy.(M[x := N]), if x ≠ y and y ∉ FV(N)
< 1292084592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ Only a shithead does that with monospaced text.
< 1292084601 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, we do not have the MW TeX thing on the esolang wiki.
< 1292084618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, I can prerender stuff. Or beg Graue for it.
< 1292084619 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked graue, and he said it was effectively impossible with his hosting setup.
< 1292084642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given two arguments, we have:

< 1292084642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((x, y) ↦ x*x + y*y)(5, 2)

< 1292084642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : = 5*5 + 2*2 = 29.

< 1292084642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, using currying, we have:

< 1292084644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thou art fucking with me.
< 1292084676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'll do something or other, then.
< 1292084690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rutian is still alive.
< 1292084694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all these years.
< 1292084696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it has an IP.
< 1292084703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could put something on there. :p
< 1292084780 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what'd be funny? If the article had originally been done with LaTeX and some moronic bureaucracy had led to it being HTMLed.
< 1292084832 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rutian?
< 1292084900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Rutian is the server of yore.
< 1292084908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Born out of the ESO standards agency.
< 1292084915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Used for miscellaneous crap for three years or so.
< 1292084920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, two, it's beend ormant lately.
< 1292084954 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, was out gathering wood in the middle of nowhere. Found a lone obsidian block, no water or lava near.
< 1292084960 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, halfway up a mountain
< 1292084967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: DUN DUN DUUUUN
< 1292084980 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what genre are we talking about?
< 1292084987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what?
< 1292085004 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh I thought that was supposed to be scary music
< 1292085019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It was just your standard moving DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUUUUUN.
< 1292085028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g9WjcGdxuM
< 1292085069 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, so not the music when the protagonist is carefully walking forward and you just *know* something will happen at any moment
< 1292085084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing was the lone obsidian.
< 1292085119 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm. will watch in a sec
< 1292085148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Failed to parse (unknown function\begin): \begin{align*} ((x, y) \mapsto x*x + y*y)(5, 2) \\ &= 5*5 + 2*2 = 29. \end{align*}
< 1292085152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: NO SOUP FOR YOU
< 1292085162 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that video says "not available in your area"
< 1292085166 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so what is it
< 1292085168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What X-D
< 1292085172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's just the DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN.
< 1292085172 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed
< 1292085188 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, huh, it works when refreshing page
< 1292085218 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, that sound. Is it a stock one or?
< 1292085304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Presumably.
< 1292085306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1292085313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or else constantly reproduced perfectly.
< 1292085341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION forces Firefox to look at clog logs in utf8

< 1292085351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anyway what i was pinging you for is this http://code.google.com/p/loper/source/browse/trunk/crap/example/oiuboot.asm?r=93
< 1292085360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: an example of super-simple sorta-orthogonal persistence
< 1292085385 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, too tired to read asm
< 1292085385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: specifically, whenever it gets a page fault, it loads that address from disk into RAM and pages it into the virtual address, then returns
< 1292085403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and it doesn't even load the kernel itself; it just sets up the page fault handler, and jumps into unloaded memory
< 1292085413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the page fault handler then pages it in from disk, and the jump succeeds
< 1292085418 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292085425 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what makes sure stuff gets written to disk then?
< 1292085436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It wasn't developed that far. :)
< 1292085457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's the oiu system from memetech.com which is *still* down.
< 1292085462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cap system got more development...
< 1292085702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Should I switch to sid to get Firefox 3.6?
< 1292085718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT, it's still 3.5 in sid.
< 1292085722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.6 is only in experimental.
< 1292085730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck this, I'm installing the experimental package manualla.
< 1292085732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*manually.
< 1292085790 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :manuel, the package from barcelona
< 1292085855 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did you give up on the LC rewrite?
< 1292085949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Not yet.
< 1292086000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~$ sudo dpkg -i iceweasel_3.6.13-1_amd64.deb
< 1292086004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bring on the instability!
< 1292086008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : iceweasel depends on xulrunner-1.9.2 (>= 1.9.2.11); however:
< 1292086009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Package xulrunner-1.9.2 is not installed.
< 1292086009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOZL
< 1292086210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need: libmozjs3d, iceweasel-l10n-en-gb
< 1292086446 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of tex articles being redone in html, is there a good tool for converting a tex file to an html file (getting as close an approximation to the formatting as html allows)?
< 1292086571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, there are tools but they all suck at it and i'll kill you if you use them because they're that bad.
< 1292086589 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn
< 1292086591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may want to look into mathjax (jsMath's successor) if you're willing to do some manual work.
< 1292086598 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you pelase write me one that doesn't suck?
< 1292086609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it is basically impossible
< 1292086614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :html doesn't work like that
< 1292086625 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't care about the math.  i just want to preserve the non-math formatting
< 1292086660 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, where text and images are located, and laying out of bibliography, and anchoring citations
< 1292086681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not gonna happen. html doesn't work like that unless you force it to, and doing it from tex would just be near-impossible.
< 1292086694 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's one that's OK.
< 1292086697 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One sec.
< 1292086699 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know a lot of it could be done approximately
< 1292086768 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm willing to tolerate a lot of differences since they are fundamentally different paradigms
< 1292086769 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: http://www.tug.org/applications/tex4ht/ <-- good part: Works well. Bad part: Original creator is dead.
< 1292086779 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1292086821 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: so the continued development isn't as good as the original development?
< 1292086846 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not that it's not as good so much as that it's slowed to a crawl.
< 1292086909 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, if you have something that you want to convert to an HTML page that looks like it came from LaTeX but isn't just a PDF barfed into a web browser (e.g. a language spec), it's pretty good.
< 1292086937 0 :Goosey!~goose124@99-60-156-25.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292086973 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh
< 1292086993 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there some papers on implementing UNIX-like systems?
< 1292087017 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Literally every advanced OS textbook in history? :P
< 1292087076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Unix counts as advanced nowadays? Fuck.
< 1292087095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, the OS designed to be as simple as possible to implement and get working and be practical.
< 1292087102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a multi-user, networked environment.
< 1292087118 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: By "advanced" I mean "it covers topics lower than shells", not "it covers research in OS design"
< 1292087137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: There are OS design textbooks which... cover just shells? And not kernels?
< 1292087140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you being serious?
< 1292087147 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slight exaggeration :P
< 1292087157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ^_________________^
< 1292087161 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point is there are definitely OS textbooks you could read cover-to-cover without being able to write an OS.
< 1292087170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Indeed...
< 1292087176 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/being able to/learning to/
< 1292087200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how big my fonts are and how beige my background is! I'm OLD now!
< 1292087284 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292087404 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how goes the LaTeXification of WP?
< 1292087422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh stop bugging me.
< 1292087688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wtf is up with cat.
< 1292088300 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1292088350 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292088427 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how should we know?
< 1292088434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :magic
< 1292089270 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, read MC Experiment day 12 yet?
< 1292089306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I haven't read since ... I forget. Link me to the first
< 1292089347 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.pcgamer.com/author/pentadact/
< 1292089356 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look back until you find the one you haven't read.
< 1292089404 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it goes to beta in 9 days.
< 1292089486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’m swept violently over the threshold, flung clear of the falling water, and left mid-air, sickeningly high over dry land. My only hope is if the water somehow hits the ground before me, spreads out into some kind of pool and…
< 1292089487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn’t.
< 1292089487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fountain of metal, stone, sand, torches and sticks explodes from me as I hit the ground, and the last thing I see in front of my dying face is the egg, still intact.
< 1292089505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Beta? With all the shitty bugs?
< 1292089558 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume he's working like hell to ruin^W fix it.
< 1292090122 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=571
< 1292090134 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel quite intensely nerdy for getting that reference.
< 1292090569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://i.imgur.com/asrO9.jpg XD
< 1292090577 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1292090688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh my God.
< 1292090688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. That should be enough.
< 1292090688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Monday: turns out it’s not enough."
< 1292090692 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://i.imgur.com/LZZJx.gif
< 1292090709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: what
< 1292090719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ha, the price is going up to 15 euros in beta.
< 1292090725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More bugs cost more!
< 1292090778 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I still prefer his GCII playthroughs by a small margin, though.
< 1292090786 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Tom Francis', that is.)
< 1292090798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I haven't played GCII, so I probably wouldn't.
< 1292090805 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nor have I.
< 1292090812 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not written for people who have.
< 1292090821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OK, rephrase: I don't really like games like that.
< 1292090839 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor I.
< 1292090851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh fine, link me then.
< 1292090857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I like the Minecraft ones partly because I know how silly he's being.
< 1292090908 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=161570&site=pcg
< 1292090942 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone buy me a fast computer so i can play minecraft
< 1292090959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: what?
< 1292090975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I play it on a 1.3 GHz Core 2 Duo laptop running at 1.2 GHz with an onboard Intel GPU
< 1292090985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Linux, no less, where the graphics performance isn't exactly stellar
< 1292090996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: rendering distance to short, graphics to fast, problem solved
< 1292091009 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1292091038 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it always ran ridiculously slow for me.  i'll see about the settings.
< 1292091053 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, and my mid-to-low end laptop runs it fine on normal rendering distance and fancy graphics.
< 1292091056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Sometimes it does and you just have to restart it. You're not playing in-browser, right?
< 1292091096 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: don't think so.  haven't played in-browser since the very first demo.
< 1292091099 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ran okay then.
< 1292091111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Sun JRE or?
< 1292091115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're not on Linux I can't even remotely help.
< 1292091125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: My laptop is actually on the high end of mid end; it's very sturdy, thin and lightweight, and has a long battery life; it's just that long battery life, lightweight and super-fast CPU don't really mix. :p
< 1292091128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually pretty snappy.
< 1292091135 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a modification of sun jvm i think
< 1292091151 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, depends on how you define "end", then.
< 1292091180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Price-wise, ignoring things that are stupidly overpriced because of a brand name (*cough* Sony *cough*)
< 1292091184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: what? you mean icedtea?
< 1292091190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't a modification, that's a backport of openjdk to run java 6
< 1292091202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: uninstall the other javas and install the sun-java6-* packages on debian
< 1292091300 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure that's my default (or something close enough to it not to make a difference)
< 1292091324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: no, in fact, the difference /does/ matter
< 1292091330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :openjdk, icedtea, etc. don't work or don't work as well
< 1292091370 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i'm talking about an experimental build that doesn't actually change the performance of sun's build at all
< 1292091431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: well, suit yourself
< 1292091653 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[So I did what I always do when I can't do anything good: I did something stupid.]]
< 1292091664 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's something unspeakably profound about that quote.
< 1292091780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Link me to the playthrough of GCII?
< 1292091804 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=161570&site=pcg
< 1292091960 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's another one where he takes over the next size of galaxy through peaceful means.
< 1292091968 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, *"peaceful"
< 1292092239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "Final Entry"?
< 1292092241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't look final to me.
< 1292092246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also that site's font rendering is fucked up and hideous.
< 1292092250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Or rather: Where's First Entry.
< 1292092457 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it must have been updated in place.
< 1292092467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Greaaaat. And on a hideous site too.
< 1292092471 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The diary starts at Day 1 on that page.
< 1292092477 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is rather, isn't it?
< 1292092494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Especially since it fucks up Firefox's font rendering for me. I think I'll skip that playthrough for now. :p
< 1292092508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(computerandvideogames.com <-- what kind of domain name is that)
< 1292092521 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a thing that guts horrible rendering on webpages and makes them vaguely readable, if that helps.
< 1292092555 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also guts the screencaps, but that's a minor loss and you can use the popup thing if you're that desparate.
< 1292092560 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*desperate.
< 1292092595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I know, I know, Readability, yes.
< 1292092596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like it.
< 1292092602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can never get it looking nicely.
< 1292092626 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not?
< 1292092655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To force the formula to render as PNG, add \, (small space) at the end of the formula (where it is not rendered). This will force PNG if the user is in "HTML if simple" mode, but not for "HTML if possible" mode (math rendering settings in preferences).
< 1292092656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha.
< 1292092668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm fussy.
< 1292092704 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, default layout or Readibility layout. Guess which is palatable?
< 1292092715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Shaddap.
< 1292092913 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, still in there?
< 1292092931 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so can we expect Nicely Formatted Lambda Calculus soon?
< 1292092999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes.
< 1292093000 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if you want me to show you the way out, that happens now, not in half a minute
< 1292093000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Maybe.
< 1292093012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You're really irritating when you bug people. :p
< 1292093023 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, guess not then
< 1292093039 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, FEAR MY BUGGINESS.
< 1292093522 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: Especially since it fucks up Firefox's font rendering for me. I think I'll skip that playthrough for now. :p ← what rendering would that be?
< 1292093527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/c/b/4/cb4c22a5b26892bebcca85d168d98566.png
< 1292093530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Whoops!
< 1292093535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathisavariable
< 1292093542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1292094047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Sheesh, WP's LC raticle is just terrible.
< 1292094076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tempted to write a treatment that doesn't both assume its readers are stupid and also use non-obvious mathematical terminology in the same sentence.
< 1292094077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*article
< 1292094132 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is the problem with WP as a reference source...
< 1292094159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A basic form of equivalence, definable on lambda terms, is alpha equivalence. This states that the particular choice of bound variable, in a lambda abstraction, doesn't (usually) matter. For instance, λx.x and λy.y are alpha-equivalent lambda terms, representing the same identity function. Note that the terms x and y aren't alpha-equivalent, because they are not bound in a lambda abstraction. In many presentations, it is usual to identify alpha
< 1292094160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-equivalent lambda terms.
< 1292094163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"doesn't (usually) matter"
< 1292094165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real fucking helpful there.
< 1292094221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Prediction: Being an IP, I'm going to get auto-reverted by a bot for making too many changes, left a threatening anti-vandalism message by it on my talk page, and will then have to contact the owner of the bot to stop it re-reverting if I do, at which point my edit will be reverted because fuck you.
< 1292094224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by a human)
< 1292094236 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1292094271 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll help in that case; I have a probably-autoconfirmed account handy.
< 1292094290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Undoubtedly a sockpuppet of me!
< 1292094300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, Google Code redesigned and it's now harder to read and get information.
< 1292094310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More cluttered too.
< 1292094312 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1292094316 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 2-year-old sockpuppet?
< 1292094407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes! Sinister.
< 1292094441 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bulwer-lytton.com/
< 1292094455 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shivers at the pure unadulterated awfulness of the design.

< 1292094651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Why are you even visiting those poseurs? http://adamcadre.ac/lyttle.html
< 1292094669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congratulations, you won the Bulwer-Lytton -- you can write long sentences! Fuckfaces.
< 1292094674 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, stumbled there from TV Tropes.
< 1292094687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (Presumably you already know of the Lytton Lytton, though.)
< 1292094693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If not, READ ALL THE RESULTS NOW AND LAUGH)
< 1292094718 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I've seen it.
< 1292094858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: FWIW, I'm up to "Beta reduction" in the informal description.
< 1292094873 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292095029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:55:22  http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=571
< 1292095030 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:55:34  I feel quite intensely nerdy for getting that reference.
< 1292095031 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050026.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292095082 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey i got it too, but i consider sandman to be on my _less_ nerdy side... :D
< 1292095138 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this may just be a further sign of my madness, i guess
< 1292095405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you know the two "famous" LC encodings of data types, Church and Mogensen-Scott?
< 1292095424 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually no.  at least not the latter.
< 1292095430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mogensen%E2%80%93Scott_encoding
< 1292095612 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok the scott encoding looks like the one i consider "obvious"
< 1292095670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: presumably you know http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_encoding :p
< 1292095683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which ofc applies to more than just naturals
< 1292095727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: anyway (as actually mentioned in that article at the bottom) i've been wondering about an encoding based on the induction combinator for a function... i.e. right fold
< 1292095730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm for a data type
< 1292095733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1292095735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nil f g = f
< 1292095735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cons x xs f g = g x (xs f g)
< 1292095737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then we can define foldr
< 1292095739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldr f z xs = xs z f
< 1292095740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::
< 1292095740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  foldr f z {nil} = z
< 1292095740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  foldr f z {cons x xs} = f x (xs z f)
< 1292095740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::
< 1292095742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  foldr f z {nil} = z
< 1292095744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  foldr f z {cons x xs} = f x (foldr f z xs)
< 1292095761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the first :: there is expanding out the call tot he list, and the second one is replacing foldr's RHS (xs z f) with a call to foldr itself
< 1292095764 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, wait, the Church encoding isn't the obvious one for you?
< 1292095778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: mogensen-scott is pretty obvious for non-numeral-and-list types
< 1292095785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and I'm just wondering how well this would work in general
< 1292095797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm you can define foldl with foldr right? (ignore efficiency right now :))
< 1292095799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget how
< 1292095800 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, you meant in general.
< 1292095806 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: not what is listed as church encoding on the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mogensen%E2%80%93Scott_encoding page
< 1292095836 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the boolean and pair examples on the Church encoding page are indeed what i'd consider obvious
< 1292095843 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, indeed.
< 1292095857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how do you do that again? :p
< 1292095915 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i'm wondering if that first page might have it wrong then?
< 1292095953 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true = \t f -> t, false = \t f -> f
< 1292095972 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cons x y = \f -> f x y
< 1292095987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be so, now tell me how to define foldl with foldr :p
< 1292095992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or i'll ASK #HASKELL
< 1292095999 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh _that_
< 1292096060 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is suddenly very hungry

< 1292096065 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, so Mogensen-Scott for the unary naturals would be... 0 = \ c1 c2 -> c1, S = \ n c1 c2 -> c2 n?
< 1292096068 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you'd better as #haskell then
< 1292096074 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ask
< 1292096080 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :food ->
< 1292096100 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really need to find a better reference for the LC than WP...
< 1292096205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan:
< 1292096205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myFoldl f z xs = foldr step id xs z
< 1292096205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    where step x g a = g (f a x)
< 1292096211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks RWH, that was so real-world of you :P
< 1292096385 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what do you seek to do?
< 1292096415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm playing with this data encoding to figure out if it's a good representation of data.
< 1292096430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The Reduceron, for instance, represents data as functions, and doesn't use this encoding AFAIK.
< 1292096450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they have notes writing about how their automatic CPU-level inlining optimisations and the like help inline data structures right into the code so that stuff is efficient.
< 1292096457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering if this foldl expands to the "efficient" implementation.
< 1292096513 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get this steadily growing feeling that a Lazy K implementation in Haskell would be a good idea...
< 1292096544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, I made a mistake.
< 1292096550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Enjoy your possible space leak. :p
< 1292096554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But yeah, it would make things easier.
< 1292096572 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it can't be worse than the one in the existing (C++) implementation.
< 1292096578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1292096587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Lazy K is kinda rubbish, though; it's SKI calculus plus gimmick. :p
< 1292096622 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, it's SKI calculus + normal functional IO mechanism.
< 1292096642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Plus syntax gimmick.
< 1292096767 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still ponder the sanity of someone who thinks "SKI calculus implementation? C++ is the perfect language!".
< 1292097018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  foldl fl zl {cons xv xsv} = (\xq gq aq -> gq (fl aq xq)) xv (xsv (\xi -> xi) (\xq gq aq -> gq (fl aq xq))) zl
< 1292097019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is going well
< 1292097098 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The worst part is that you cannot pronounce any of those names.
< 1292097134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I've renamed them to disambiguate :P
< 1292097189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What I need is a program to let me do valid manipulations on lambda expressions manually, handling alpha conversion etc. itself.
< 1292097198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can simplify these things step by step without making stupid mistakes.
< 1292097224 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you mean handling code as code rather than text?
< 1292097288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1292097306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES!
< 1292097310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simplified
< 1292097311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldl fl zl xsl = foldr (\xq gq aq -> gq (fl aq xq)) (\xi -> xi) xsl zl
< 1292097311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to
< 1292097313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  foldl f z {nil} = z
< 1292097313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  foldl f z {cons x xs} = foldl f (f z x) xs
< 1292097342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I'm saying is: The right-fold data structure representation supports foldl perfectly well.
< 1292097346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With a sufficiently smart CPU :P)
< 1292097642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I am not sure how this works with mutually-recursive data types and the like :(
< 1292097719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I guess I'll just go with the induction schemes.
< 1292097808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"TIL That Linus Torvalds also created Git, so much cooler now"
< 1292097811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck you /r/programming.
< 1292097814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to Slashdot.
< 1292097938 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, zuh?
< 1292097979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's on /r/programming's front page.
< 1292097991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has finally ceased to be worthwhile even in the slightest.
< 1292098067 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "What do Java developers think of Scala?" I sense the invisible hand of Sgeo!
< 1292098101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember when git was low-level and you had to use cogito to get anything done.
< 1292098367 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're OLD
< 1292098391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Dude, it was 2006 :P
< 1292098412 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OLD
< 1292098432 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back then I could write Hello World in Pascal and that was IT!
< 1292098682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tree_rec =
< 1292098682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun (T : Type) (P : Tree T -> Set) => Tree_rect T P
< 1292098682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :     : forall (T : Type) (P : Tree T -> Set),
< 1292098682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       (forall t : T, P (Leaf T t)) ->
< 1292098682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       (forall t : Tree T,
< 1292098845 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coqing, then?
< 1292098871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, I was just trying to get a tree's recursive induction scheme.
< 1292098876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since Coq is :oohdependent:, it hasn't helped much.
< 1292098934 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the whole rec and rect thing.
< 1292099043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leaf x f g = f x
< 1292099043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Branch x y f g = g (x f g) (y f g)
< 1292099045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful
< 1292099096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mapTree f t = foldTree f Branch
< 1292099106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wundervoll!
< 1292099122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm actaully
< 1292099123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mapTree f t = foldTree f Branch t
< 1292099130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*actually
< 1292099150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait
< 1292099154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mapTree f t = foldTree (Leaf . f) Branch t
< 1292099208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  mapTree f {Leaf x} = Leaf (f x)
< 1292099209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  mapTree f {Branch x y} = Branch (mapTree f x) (mapTree f y)
< 1292099210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mission accomplished
< 1292099471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  map f {nil} = nil
< 1292099471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  map f {cons x xs} = cons (f x) (map f xs)
< 1292099476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: these things really expand properly!
< 1292099478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is awesome
< 1292100039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Have you looked at the Reduceron?
< 1292100043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may restore your faith in electrons.
< 1292100048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://www.cs.york.ac.uk/fp/reduceron/
< 1292100054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The memos are great.
< 1292100070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: tl;dr purely functional, lazy graph rewriting on an FPGA.
< 1292100081 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO?
< 1292100089 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :electrons, traitorous little schemers
< 1292100091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, it does have IO of some kind.
< 1292100094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it has O. Dunno about I.
< 1292100103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's irrelevant though, just gawp at the amazingness and read the lovely memos.
< 1292100882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oops, I just realised my tree structure was (Leaf X | Branch Tree Tree), which is rather useless.
< 1292100894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be (Leaf | Branch X Tree Tree).
< 1292101158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  mapTree f {Leaf} = Leaf
< 1292101158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  mapTree f {Branch x t1 t2} = Branch (f x) (mapTree f t1) (mapTree f t2)
< 1292101160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w00tz.
< 1292101535 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, idea: redstone message bus (think CAN)
< 1292101552 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, doable or not?
< 1292101562 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d932927c.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292101568 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well presumably doable considering the CPU
< 1292101573 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... feasible?
< 1292101582 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi@all
< 1292101597 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1292101674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Maybe.
< 1292101679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo: hi.
< 1292101709 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  i didn't like jquery, until i decided to use it because it made development faster. now i can't go back to women...
< 1292101727 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :241)  i didn't like jquery, until i decided to use it because it made development faster. now i can't go back to women...
< 1292101837 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: "hi@all" isn't likely to elicit much of a reaction, except for elliott mistabbing you :P
< 1292101859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 241)  i didn't like jquery, until i decided to use it because it made development faster. now i can't go back to women...
< 1292101859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat
< 1292101870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastequotes
< 1292101873 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.28706
< 1292101880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I can't believe my new quote system isn't 17x as efficient as the old one :P
< 1292101887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your bot spends SO MUCH TIME doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OF VALUE X-D
< 1292101943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :231)  Wow, that [ ! "$1" ] actually works.
< 1292101946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is that even in the database.
< 1292101948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 231
< 1292101961 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*poof*
< 1292102088 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  ONLY GOOD QUOTES PLEASE!  AND NO FAKE ONES EITHER!
< 1292102089 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :241)  ONLY GOOD QUOTES PLEASE!  AND NO FAKE ONES EITHER!
< 1292102107 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOLY CRAP MY PARENTS ARE WATCHING SELTZER AND FRIEDBERG AND LAUGHING I'M GOING TO UNIVERSITY NOW AND NEVER COMING BACK
< 1292102132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE THAT IS THIS ONE:  The mother of my children is a goat!
< 1292102144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ;__;
< 1292102209 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, AAAAAAAAAAAA ALL MY GENES ARE THEIRS AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
< 1292102245 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I need a fuse-hg.
< 1292102251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Don't worry! It is theoretically possible that every single gene you have mutated!
< 1292102257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could share NO genes with them!
< 1292102260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCIENCE
< 1292102261 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yesyesyesyesyesyes
< 1292102261 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hg clone-ing a large repository is (sometimes) quite slow >_>
< 1292102267 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :242) IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE THAT IS THIS ONE:  The mother of my children is a goat!
< 1292102268 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, inconsistent-speed.
< 1292102285 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is "fuse-hg" meant to be something more interesting than a FUSE interface to hg?
< 1292102498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: y/n?
< 1292102520 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 129
< 1292102523 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :129)  if you claim that the universe is more than 3D the burden of proof is on you to produce a klien bottle that doesn't self intersect    ^ I learned that trick from atheists
< 1292102536 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, the good old days.
< 1292102577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's vaguely irritating that fax was an interesting cool person and an utterly insane psycho in one
< 1292102803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph, what's foldl on a tree..
< 1292102852 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i'm not sure that makes sense
< 1292102857 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldl . toList
< 1292102871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: me neither, but i *want* it to make sense :)
< 1292102876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: bad Deewiant *slaps*
< 1292102895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- foldlTree f z Leaf = z
< 1292102895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- foldlTree f z (Branch x t1 t2) = foldlTree (f (foldlTree f z t1) x) t2
< 1292102896 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It typically is that
< 1292102898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think that *sort* of works
< 1292102908 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes
< 1292102912 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean a tree is basically a way to correct for a list's biased direction-ness...
< 1292102919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so really there's foldlTreeLeft and foldlTreeRight
< 1292102921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you get my meaning
< 1292102927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you just swap t1 and t2 there
< 1292102931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hm? were you saying yes to my definition?
< 1292102968 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that for a list, a foldl is equivalent to a foldr of the reversed list
< 1292102979 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: To fuse-hg :P
< 1292103010 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however if you reverse/mirror a tree, you still use the same fold
< 1292103012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What would it be, then? (Suggest rename to hg-fuse, for consistency.)
< 1292103013 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Basically, I want to be able to fuse-mount a particular revision, then when I unmount it commits a new revision with my changes.
< 1292103021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with tweaked parameters)
< 1292103022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right.
< 1292103027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, so "no" then.
< 1292103042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I was saying: is it more interesting than FUSE? As in: did you mean "fuse" the verb?
< 1292103046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in fuse two hg repositories together in some way?
< 1292103048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be interesting.
< 1292103054 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh :P
< 1292103152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: give me a tree operation other than fold and map, then :P
< 1292103166 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: monad operations!
< 1292103167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to write in terms of foldr and expand back
< 1292103175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh gawd -- what are they on trees?
< 1292103206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well return x is just Branch x Leaf Leaf i think
< 1292103232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm doing this because I'm fairly sure that representing structures as their right fold (i.e. their induction-recursion combinator) is the best representation in LC; it's easy to convert pattern matching into it, and when inlining and expanding functions defined with the combinators, they tend to unroll to the obvious, efficient "direct" implementation
< 1292103449 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i'm not sure about monad operations on trees when the x'es are embedded straight into Branch rather than Leaf
< 1292103510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: eh? (Leaf X | Branch Tree Tree) you mean as the alternative?
< 1292103513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what should join (Branch (Branch x t1 t2) t3 t4) be
< 1292103517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had that at first, but then realised it doesn't model actual trees
< 1292103519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean
< 1292103524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Leaf X | Branch X Tree Tree)?
< 1292103543 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former has an obvious monad instance, at least
< 1292103562 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter may not actually help in that respect
< 1292103577 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gyaaah, where's pikhq when you need him and his multimedia nerdery.
< 1292103668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I have some of it.
< 1292103676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: erm but how do you model an "actual" tree with the former?
< 1292103684 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just goes for the torrent with the most peers.

< 1292103751 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh forget that
< 1292103762 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what :D
< 1292103767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but then it's hardly a tree structure, is it?
< 1292103770 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't work
< 1292103771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh or do you mean, forget what i said
< 1292103774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, I can help
< 1292103775 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1292103785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: pretend i'm pikhq, i'm as much an encoding nerd as he is :)
< 1292103786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, close
< 1292103806 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is in fact pikhq converted to big5
< 1292103809 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, http://torrentz.eu/search?f=futurama+season+3
< 1292103816 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, that's the wrong way around
< 1292103820 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(obviously)
< 1292103832 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pick one or find a better one.
< 1292103841 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have an idea how to make that "clear" one work. Involves one SR-latch and two buttons
< 1292103861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://torrentz.com/7f97cf9ea5ff10a01b56789c85ce32e3c8a24674 This is the best one out of the first few.
< 1292103873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: 11 seeders, 10 peers. Should go quickly enough.
< 1292103900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: There is a preferable 8 gig Matroska rip, but it is seederless.
< 1292103904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So go with that one.
< 1292103931 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, define "quickly enough".
< 1292103939 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I shall compare it with actual results.
< 1292103942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You can't tell without downloading.
< 1292103963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It depends on your connection, everyone else's connection, general swarm health... Start the torrent, add the trackers from torrentz, and give it some minutes to get going.
< 1292103968 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean in the sense of "what would be the kind of order of magnitude you'd expect"?
< 1292103988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: A few hours if stuff is good.
< 1292104009 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 peer.
< 1292104014 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stuff is not good.
< 1292104035 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 peer *listed*, not connected.
< 1292104044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Did you add the trackers?
< 1292104050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you *wait* because this stuff takes time to propagate?
< 1292104052 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1292104066 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were 4, and one of them was already there.
< 1292104066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No you didn't.
< 1292104068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait a few minutes.
< 1292104072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wait.
< 1292104077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You did add them with a blank line in between, yes?
< 1292104084 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1292104098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Give it some minutes.
< 1292104118 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I am looking at the tracker list right now and two of them have 1 peer listed each.
< 1292104170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OK, I realise you don't get how BitTorrent works, but stop looking at it and go back in five minutes.
< 1292104172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously.
< 1292104203 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take your point. It's up to 29.
< 1292104363 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE IS EGG ON MY FACE
< 1292104390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so wait what's the preferable tree structure again :D
< 1292104397 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU NEED TO IMPROVE YOUR COOKING SKILLS
< 1292104425 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nothing wrong with your original, is there
< 1292104436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you mean Tree = Leaf | Branch X Tree Tree?
< 1292104441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1292104445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right, so what's join :D
< 1292104464 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DON'T KNOW
< 1292104476 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it even is a monad
< 1292104491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: now i need to find the monad laws as phrased for join :p
< 1292104497 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googles

< 1292104511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: now i need a winning lottery ticket
< 1292104516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if it worked once, it's worth trying again!)
< 1292104683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: join . return == id
< 1292104684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :join . fmap return == id
< 1292104684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :join . join == join . fmap join
< 1292104700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wait do you need fmap to do a monad? doesn't join/return suffice
< 1292104740 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you need it in some capacity, since >>= can't be expressed in terms of join and return alone.
< 1292104750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm indeed
< 1292104766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok well I have treeMap so that's sorted
< 1292104777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok so obviously "join (Branch x Leaf Leaf) = x" :)
< 1292104832 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>>= f) = join (fmap f), yes?
< 1292104890 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish cpressey was here so I could torment him with both monads AND pointfree style!
< 1292104952 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, s/!/./
< 1292104972 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What an overbearingly gregarious lapse.
< 1292104998 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the examples i find for tree monad all seem to assume something equivalent to the Leaf x | Branch (Tree x) (Tree x) version.  although i found this one comment: http://www.rhinocerus.net/forum/lang-haskell/383058-good-old-tree-monad.html#post1814212
< 1292105025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well I mean I have no objection to "Leaf x | Branch (Tree x) (Tree x)" I just don't see how it's a *tree*
< 1292105035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in when someone says "oh yeah i solved this problem using a TREE", i can't imagine them using that
< 1292105115 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, Tree is a monad now?
< 1292105174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: seemingly
< 1292105190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: HA!
< 1292105192 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1292105200 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are bind and return done?
< 1292105200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Initially, I thought this was going to be about even plainer binary
< 1292105200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trees, like this:
< 1292105200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Tree a = Branch (Tree a) (Tree a) | Leaf a
< 1292105200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--
< 1292105200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simon Richard Clarkstone:
< 1292105205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: = our SimonRC
< 1292105210 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can combine it though, Tree a b = Leaf b | Branch a (Tree a b) (Tree a b), then Tree a is still a monad
< 1292105212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lesson: #esoteric is unable to avoid itself
< 1292105217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you can combine it though, Tree a b = Leaf b | Branch a (Tree a b) (Tree a b), then Tree a is still a monad
< 1292105219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ugly though :)
< 1292105220 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I assume return = Leaf.
< 1292105240 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: um clarkstone doesn't ring a bell
< 1292105250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Simon Richard Clarkstone = SimonRC
< 1292105253 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-36-36.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292105260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/whois if you want to check (also note present in #haskell too)
< 1292105263 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh /whois agrees
< 1292105265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i remember his sig :)
< 1292105271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so would you recommend I just go for the ultra-plain binary tree route for the sake of algorithmic purity :)
< 1292105272 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* [SimonRC] (~sc@fof.durge.org): Simon Richard Clarkstone
< 1292105290 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird, i thought his surname was something different
< 1292105434 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: for join, whenever you have t :: Tree a (Tree a b), you can conceptually get a Tree a b from that by replacing all Leaf x with x
< 1292105460 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at the outer level)
< 1292105471 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what's the structure of this tree?
< 1292105488 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the combined one above
< 1292105515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wait since when does Tree have two type parameters
< 1292105529 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in the combined version it does
< 1292105543 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1292105543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: we're doing the (Leaf X | Branch Tree Tree) version now, I've decided :P
< 1292105545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for simplicity
< 1292105547 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you allow different types for values in branches and in leaves
< 1292105558 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ok in that case just ignore the a's
< 1292105672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hm
< 1292105677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tree :: Tree (Tree a) -> Tree a
< 1292105682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh that's rather easy then isn't it
< 1292105686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: we just want to s/Leaf x/x/
< 1292105693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no?
< 1292105702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :join (Leaf x) = x; join (Branch t1 t2) = Branch (join t1) (join t2)
< 1292105737 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1292105747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and thus joinTree = foldTree Branch id
< 1292105751 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I found out why Coq files have a .v suffix: it's short for "vernacular".
< 1292105776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Insert lewd reference to Coq's name and word beginning with V.
< 1292105784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Insert me being swatted by oerjan.
< 1292105793 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION obliges -----###

< 1292105834 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine if this subreddit actually were highly active http://www.reddit.com/r/correctionsdept/
< 1292105854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "there doesn't seem to be anything here" - ha, ha, ha
< 1292105880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm so wait how do you do bind in terms of fmap and join?
< 1292105884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's uh
< 1292105890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x >>= f = join (fmap f x)
< 1292105891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right?
< 1292105896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292105912 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's no fair to type my lines before me!
< 1292105972 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw it was linked from http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/ek22q/reddit_now_creates_the_news_the_ciapsyteknet/)
< 1292106156 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oerjan, I said that about 15 minutes before either of you.
< 1292106206 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, (>>=) = flip $ join . fmap
< 1292106208 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well your time-traveling ways aren't fair either!
< 1292106263 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: um no i don't think that's right
< 1292106282 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh?
< 1292106286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :progress so far simplifying bind:
< 1292106287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  bindTree {Leaf v} f = f v
< 1292106287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  bindTree {Branch t1 t2} f = Branch (((mapTree f t1) (\x -> x) Branch)) (((mapTree f t2) (\x -> x) Branch))
< 1292106303 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, operator precedence or...?
< 1292106341 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish we still had lambdabot...
< 1292106345 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>>=) = flip $ (join .) . fmap
< 1292106404 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were trying to use . with a two-argument function
< 1292106404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: go ask for lambdabot again :D
< 1292106410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: *not* you, you're not nice and persuasive
< 1292106415 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i didn't do it the first time
< 1292106423 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bind = (join .) . flip fmap
< 1292106423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: which is why you're the best person to do it now!
< 1292106428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: nobody's sick of you yet
< 1292106459 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt anyone remembers me from last time I asked...
< 1292106473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, but when you asked, it disappeared soon after.
< 1292106480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I (IIRC) asked gwern it didn't.
< 1292106488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I'm sayin' is: you're not sweet enough :P
< 1292106498 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1292106522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: just use puppy dog eyes
< 1292106523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8.8
< 1292106582 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it probably disappears whenever lambdabot quits, regardless.  sheesh.
< 1292106605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it didn't last time, iirc it was added to the list :) i may be wrong though
< 1292106622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: anyway go ask! you can prolly use your haskell report credentials to make ridiculous demands or sth
< 1292106625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  bindTree {Leaf v} f = f v
< 1292106625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  bindTree {Branch t1 t2} f = Branch (bindTree t1 f) (bindTree t2 f)
< 1292106626 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how's fmap defined for Tree?
< 1292106626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES
< 1292106628 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it was added to the list why did it disappear again?
< 1292106628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT FINALLY WORKS
< 1292106638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's just map.
< 1292106642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  mapTree f {Leaf x} = Leaf (f x)
< 1292106642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  mapTree f {Branch t1 t2} = Branch (mapTree f t1) (mapTree f t2)
< 1292106643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or
< 1292106645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mapTree f t = foldTree Branch (Leaf . f)
< 1292106649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: who knows? I think it changed servers at one point or something
< 1292106654 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, just map Leaf x => Leaf (f x).
< 1292106656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Lemmih is the current guy-to-bug.
< 1292106785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/UiAY here's my working out of all of this
< 1292106790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: precedes a block that's equivalent
< 1292106836 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear god what is that at foldl aaaaa
< 1292106870 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldl = xqgqaqgqflaqxqzl
< 1292106872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Read it like this:
< 1292106887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldl f z xs = foldr (\x g a -> g (f a x)) (\x -> x) xs z
< 1292106891 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: fthagn!
< 1292106895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The suffixes on the variables were added because I ran into alpha-renaming issues.
< 1292106913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is why I need a manual-but-automated rewriter tool. :p
< 1292107070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would anyone like a copy of my GLORIOUS EYE-CURING GNOME THEME?
< 1292107163 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, Coq curries things, doesn't it?
< 1292107215 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chicken and curry
< 1292107469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Generally, yes.
< 1292107521 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My tormentor was in fact the byzantine implicit argument system masquerading in the garb of currying oddities.
< 1292107554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes http://www.cs.york.ac.uk/fp/reduceron/memos/Memo13.txt for reading in a minute

< 1292107565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The implicit argument system is nicer than Agda's, at least.
< 1292107572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Would you like my WONDERFUL GNOME THEME?
< 1292107588 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY IS IT SO "£$%"£$%ING *HARD* TO MAKE ID A FUNCTION?
< 1292107592 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLEASE EXPLAIN.
< 1292107592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1292107611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Definition id x := x.
< 1292107619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no.
< 1292107625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Definition id {A} (x : A) := x.
< 1292107633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything wrong with that?
< 1292107634 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, YOU'D THINK IT'D BE THAT SIMPLE BUT NOOOOO
< 1292107640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coq < Definition id {A} (x : A) := x.
< 1292107640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :id is defined
< 1292107642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes it is.
< 1292107647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're doing it wrong.
< 1292107649 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES THERE BLOODY WELL IS
< 1292107656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What?
< 1292107677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Case expressions can be removed by defining data constructors as
< 1292107678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :functions and transforming case expressions to function applications.]]
< 1292107684 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fmap (A B : Set) (f : A -> B).
< 1292107690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey they stole Church's and Mogensen's and Scott's and my idea :)
< 1292107695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And? How is id not a function?
< 1292107715 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap [elided or not actually there depending on what's set] id is a type error.
< 1292107731 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't ask me why because I don't know.
< 1292107743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OK, please give me the full definition of fmap.
< 1292107749 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :id has type forall A : Type, A -> A.
< 1292107753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OK, please give me the full definition of fmap.
< 1292107768 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO BECAUSE IT IS EMBARRASSINGLY AWFUL
< 1292107776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OK, please give me the full definition of fmap.
< 1292107784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have done monads in Coq before.
< 1292107800 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fixpoint fmap (A B : Set) (f : A -> B) (t : tree A) : tree B := [elided].
< 1292107821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Definition of tree, please.
< 1292107825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, nevermind.
< 1292107827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can just make it an axiom.
< 1292107917 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Essentially, I'm told that fmap id is an error as id : ID rather than * -> *.
< 1292107936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, because the values of A and B are not clear.
< 1292107938 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where ID = forall A : Type, A -> A.
< 1292107946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You might want to try using {A B : Set} in fmap.
< 1292107958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Failing that... just give A as a parameter, and forall A in the scope you're in.
< 1292107961 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, just tried that.
< 1292107965 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still an error.
< 1292107967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Failing that... just give A as a parameter, and forall A in the scope you're in.
< 1292107969 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, tried that.
< 1292107972 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still an error.
< 1292108020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coq < Axiom tree : Set -> Set.
< 1292108020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tree is assumed
< 1292108020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coq < Axiom fmap : forall (A B : Set) (f : A -> B) (t : tree A), tree B.
< 1292108020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap is assumed
< 1292108020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coq < Definition id {A} (x : A) := x.
< 1292108028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap_id
< 1292108030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :     : forall A : Set, tree A -> tree A
< 1292108032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You did something wrong, then.
< 1292108051 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, so I have to actually *define my own id* because Coq's definition is idiotic?
< 1292108070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Nope:
< 1292108081 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, you did.
< 1292108086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I forgot Coq has its own.
< 1292108096 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then try it with that.
< 1292108116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly.
< 1292108123 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292108133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coq < Definition fmap_id (A : Set) (t : tree A) : tree A := fmap A A (id (A:=A)) t.
< 1292108133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap_id is defined
< 1292108142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Was that so hard?
< 1292108151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If an implicit parameter can't be inferred, just specify it with (paramname:=val).
< 1292108172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How I found out what name to use:
< 1292108176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coq < Check id.
< 1292108176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :id
< 1292108176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :     : ID
< 1292108176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coq < Print ID.
< 1292108176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ID = forall A : Type, A -> A
< 1292108233 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly what I did.
< 1292108251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I refuse to believe it discriminates against you and refuses to execute the same code that works for me.
< 1292108253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You did something wrong.
< 1292108269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I've managed to convince myself that the only good representation of data as lambda-calculus functions is with their induction-recursion right folds. Yay.
< 1292108283 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, sans the (A := A) which is the silly part I couldn't remember.
< 1292108286 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"also, for future reference, spambots,  makes no sense as an XML-style tag in any markup system I know..." Apparently someone typed that in a spam message in esolang wiki?
< 1292108296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The silly part? That's the important part.
< 1292108314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: When you say "fmap A A id t", it can't infer what the value of A is in id's type, (forall A, A -> A).
< 1292108330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You can't say (id A), obviously, because we can easily infer that A:=Set and thus id is Set -> Set and thus (id A) = A.
< 1292108342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The reliable way to specify implicit type parameters is with (name:=val).
< 1292108353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just because the name in id's type and the name in your code happen to coincide doesn't make it silly.
< 1292108366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be (A:=WhatARandomNameToGiveASet).
< 1292108390 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is not my problem; my problem is "why make the parameter implicit if you'll have to specify it explicitly anyway".
< 1292108418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Because in all the /other/ cases, it works fine.
< 1292108437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implicit parameters are hugely convenient; the type inferrer just can't manage this one case; once you see the error and know what to do, it's trivial to fix.
< 1292108443 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you mean those in which id is not being passed to other functions?
< 1292108462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, you can pass id to other functions easily; just not to functions you're using polymorphically.
< 1292108474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or some condition roughly like that.)
< 1292108482 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think it is somehow possible to do some special things in C by a external program that looks at the error messages emitted by the compiler?
< 1292108489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a compromise solution, sure; but then so is type inference, there's always going to be cases it can't handle.
< 1292108756 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that you can insert compile-time error traps into the program, and then in case of specific errors, modify the program and resubmit it to the compiler to try again.
< 1292108776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That seems... interesting.
< 1292108779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An automatic bug-fixer? :p
< 1292108783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Would you like my GNOME THEME?!?!?1i19037248957yj
< 1292108819 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does it shrilly scream about type errors constantly?
< 1292108876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: NOPE! That's the best feature!
< 1292108882 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, not quite an automatic bug-fixer. You would still have to enter manually what it changes in case of what error, so you might use it to change things in case something doesn't fit due to machine word size, or to allow "x.qqq" to be replaced by a macro if "x" is not a structure, and so on.
< 1292108888 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I shall have it!
< 1292108894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: BTW, I often find that it's actually easier to write functions with tactics first.
< 1292108897 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-239-57.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292108909 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every video encoder sucks.
< 1292108918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1292108929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Defining functions like that is a Bad Idea, but you can do it -- just end Definition with a dot. And you can even do some fixed-point stuff. Just remember to Show the code at the end and replace the tactics with it.
< 1292108937 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot figure out *any* way to properly encode mixed framerate video.
< 1292108977 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Handbrake almost does it, (Windows-only) Avisynth can be hacked into doing it, x264's CLI can do it if you can somehow get a timestamp file for it, and nothing else even *makes the attempt*.
< 1292109035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://filebin.ca/qkmtx/Kimono.zip
< 1292109044 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I could perhaps write a timestamp-generating inverse telecine filter + deinterlacer, I could just barely get it going right.
< 1292109047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Install by selecting the zip in Appearance → Install...
< 1292109062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Fonts to set: Application font = Droid Sans, Document font = Sans,
< 1292109065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Desktop font = Droid Sand
< 1292109074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Sans; Window title font = Droid Sans Bold
< 1292109077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fixed width font = Droid Sans Mono
< 1292109081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All 10 except Window title, which should be 11.
< 1292109095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And set your DPI write in details, too. (http://members.ping.de/~sven/dpi.html to calculate)
< 1292109103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay, so the DPI thing is optional.
< 1292109105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the fonts aren't. :p
< 1292109128 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Droid Sans preinstalled?
< 1292109138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the .deb for the Droid fonts: http://ubuntu.mirrors.pair.com/archive//pool/universe/t/ttf-droid/ttf-droid_1.00~b112+dfsg+1-0ubuntu1_all.deb
< 1292109145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://ubuntu.mirrors.pair.com/archive//pool/universe/t/ttf-droid/ttf-droid_1.00~b112+dfsg+1-0ubuntu1_all.deb
< 1292109154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wget it and dpkg -i it.
< 1292109169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and I apologise to pikhq for making a theme that isn't Grey Mist.
< 1292109170 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. ATM I am encoding with a gigantic pipeline because I've gotten fed up with the limitations of all the tools out there. ALL OF THEM.
< 1292109181 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Screenshot?
< 1292109217 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or possibly if you suppress some error messages, even.
< 1292109225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sure.
< 1292109252 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, erm, Appearance expects something called a theme file and complains about the zip.
< 1292109261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh.
< 1292109265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'll reupload in a second.
< 1292109266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://imgur.com/GIKWc.png (Phantom_Hoover too)
< 1292109273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (If you think the fonts are huge, consider that my display is 120 ppi.)
< 1292109299 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that Bad or Good?
< 1292109316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Good, but it means fonts will look huge for people on less Good displays. :p
< 1292109323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. desktop displays or not-as-small laptops)
< 1292109328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Still want it after seeing THE HIDEOUS SCREENSHOT?
< 1292109350 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must say my enthusiasm is dimmed somewhat.
< 1292109361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOUR LOSS
< 1292109372 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I actually *like* Mist.
< 1292109375 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Insufficiently Grey. And insufficiently Mist.
< 1292109377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now pikhq will yell at me for the fact that it has a gradient.
< 1292109380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SEE I WAS RIGHT
< 1292109443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Looking at it, I guess it actually just shows that, deep down, I still like Bluecurve. :P
< 1292109509 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an easy way of expressing function composition in Coq?
< 1292109556 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think another use of getting these message from compiler to automatically change things, might also include linker errors, if needed.
< 1292109571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://coq.inria.fr/library/Coq.Program.Basics.html
< 1292109574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notation " g ∘ f " := (compose g f)
< 1292109575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  (at level 40, left associativity) : program_scope.
< 1292109589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You may want to define your own notation for it that is less Unicodey.
< 1292109635 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funnily enough, compose is not a defined object for me.
< 1292109663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "Library Coq.Program.Basics"
< 1292109667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Require Import Coq.Program.Basics.
< 1292109691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (Or Require Import Program.Basics or Require Import Basics.)
< 1292109697 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Electric terminator, but anyway...
< 1292109716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What about it?
< 1292109731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You realise you can cause statements to become un-evaluated? And also unevaluate everything beyond a certain point in the document?
< 1292109741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, of course, is what you should do all the time when correcting things...
< 1292109753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-c C-u to unevaluate the previous statement, I think ... but I've forgotten.
< 1292109765 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, but typing "." evaluates.
< 1292109783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes; and?
< 1292109812 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eviluation
< 1292109881 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so Require Import Foo.Bar. will evaluate as soon as I type the "." after Foo.
< 1292109893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And?
< 1292109913 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it takes care of that.
< 1292109951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ohh, I see what you mean.
< 1292109952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it does.
< 1292109960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proof General is godly.
< 1292109981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# See the Proof General Eclipse wiki for screenshots of Proof General in Eclipse."
< 1292109982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DOES THAT EXIST
< 1292110072 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD.
< 1292110262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What are you writing in Coq?
< 1292110309 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, incompetence personified.
< 1292110318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Which is intended to be?
< 1292110357 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something... monady...
< 1292110385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh, sprunge your code. :p
< 1292110417 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1292110446 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even better: I'll EXTRACT it!
< 1292110525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'd prefer to laugh at your Coq.
< 1292110530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering extraction removes all the interesting dependency.
< 1292110537 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the monad of incompetence
< 1292110558 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally a good use for strict encapsulation
< 1292110579 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NB: My method for proving things in Coq is "type simpl. Type rewrite and some relevant rule. Type unfold and a function name. Is proof finished? Repeat otherwise."
< 1292110597 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With "type intros. Type induction and a variable name." stuck in for good measure.
< 1292110606 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the occasional reflexivity.
< 1292110625 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know 6 tactics and that is enough!
< 1292110816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: If rewrite is your most common tactic, ur doin it rong.
< 1292110828 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deeply.
< 1292110832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: BTW, Proof General can list all the tactics in the system (there's fewer than you think).
< 1292110837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just TAB on that and pick a likely one. :p
< 1292110847 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't pretend to know how to do it properly.
< 1292110901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm just trying to help.
< 1292111068 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously; I've never had occasion to do anything interesting enough to invest time into properly learning Coq.
< 1292111199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Do what me and fax were trying to do, replace the standard library.
< 1292111214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (Try starting with category theory; there's a wonderful paper about embedding it into Coq, absolutely wonderful.)
< 1292111222 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That actually seems worthwhile. How do I sign up?
< 1292111224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can't get the algebraic structures down, you lose.
< 1292111227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You sign up by doing it!
< 1292111234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Er, there's some option to Coq to tell it to forget the stdlib exists.
< 1292111235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me find it.
< 1292111246 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@75-174-221-22.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292111253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i note that fax disappeared from the internet right after oerjan banned it
< 1292111270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover:
< 1292111271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*
< 1292111271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** Local Variables: ***
< 1292111271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** coq-prog-args: ("-emacs-U" "-nois") ***
< 1292111271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** End: ***
< 1292111274 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i've seen fax on freenode since then
< 1292111279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Put that at the end of your file... or the top, I forget.
< 1292111285 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, okay, stopped posting to reddit. And its blog.
< 1292111287 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I think you misunderestimate how weirdly uneven my understanding of things.
< 1292111291 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is
< 1292111297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Try the bottom. Yes, the bottom.
< 1292111304 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292111358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://sqig.math.ist.utl.pt/pub/CarvalhoA/98-C-DiplomaThesis/maintext.ps
< 1292111361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (One version of) the lovely paper.
< 1292111385 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did I mention that I don't know any category theory?
< 1292111394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You don't really have to. :p
< 1292111413 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also that I'm tired?
< 1292111420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not even midnight...
< 1292111439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Categories are what happens when you decide to make entire mathematical foundations objects. For instance, in the Set category, objects are sets. In the Hask category (Haskell), objects are Haskell types.
< 1292111454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Then you get to the cat of small cats -- sorry, category of small categories -- and shit goes crazy.
< 1292111462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think oerjan can agree with the part of my explanation that involves shit going crazy.
< 1292111479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also morphisms and monoids and monads.
< 1292111522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and topoi.  or so i hear.
< 1292111540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i never got that far :D
< 1292111551 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really me either
< 1292112479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can you make oklopol come back
< 1292112602 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did oklopol go?
< 1292112757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: he's just busy i think
< 1292112788 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his masters iirc
< 1292112793 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Little did Beethoven know, on that cold December morning in 1770, that he was about to be born. (Randall Munroe)]]
< 1292112807 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was this pre- or post- the xkcdecay?
< 1292112879 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1292112913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: erm he's doing his bachelors iirc, working on his thesis
< 1292112918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's just planning to do his masters because he's crazy :)
< 1292112931 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292112932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although he probably will start doing his masters before his second year is over, i guess
< 1292112947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but he did mention having to do some last fixes on his bachelor's thesis  sometime :p
< 1292112970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: post- I think but it hardly matters
< 1292112972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe during-
< 1292113027 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. So he still keeps the ability to be funny, he just doesn't apply it to his webcomic?
< 1292113336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes. See: Oh Dear Family Is Sick 5 Minute Comix.
< 1292113341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those were good.
< 1292113352 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1292113370 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292113387 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although as soon as normal programming was resumed I dropped it from my webcomic list altogether.
< 1292113424 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : he's just planning to do his masters because he's crazy :) <-- who?
< 1292113431 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1292113435 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklo?
< 1292113581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1292113606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/gm2/2010-12/msg00009.html
< 1292113608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU Modula-2 1.0!
< 1292113659 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we make a computer game that allows you to adjust the gravitational field strength, field eccentricity, number of deliveries per over, etc? And then possibly also more crazy things such as alien abduction (my brother suggested this).
< 1292113691 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Number of deliveries per... what?
< 1292113710 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh oh... 3.75Mi worth of new (<5 days) allocations from APNIC. This model now estimates IANA depletion at end of January.
< 1292113741 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Deliveries per over.
< 1292113756 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuh?
< 1292113817 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An over is six consecutive balls bowled by one bowler.
< 1292113865 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extending up to 30 days: 11 /14s, 5 /13s, 3 /12s and a /11. That's 10.25Mi addresses (plus some <0.25Mi allocations)...
< 1292113959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1292114039 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other crazy ideas include multiball mode, antigravity, sloped (or curved) ground, slowly rotating field, making the players on the team to be not people but spiders or monsters or something else, and even more possible crazy ideas.....
< 1292114073 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It really is bizarre how xkcd is funnier when he spends *less* time at it.
< 1292114084 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: ...
< 1292114087 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: ...
< 1292114099 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Run on the bank!
< 1292114235 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Counted from delegated file for APNIC, 13 606 144 addresses have been allocated on 20101111 and since.
< 1292114245 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*assigned
< 1292114273 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow.
< 1292114350 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy crap: Of those, 8 124 928 were assigned this month.
< 1292114395 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So everyone's trying to get their hands on what's left of the internet?
< 1292114476 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, because otherwise the Internet will be full.
< 1292114493 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Okay, so we can probably expect RIR depletion to start much sooner than "late next year".
< 1292114525 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When IPv6 is used more often, then IPv6 won't be full.
< 1292114553 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the current IPv6 address space usage? 0.027% or so?
< 1292114562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Sounds about right.
< 1292114747 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Holy crap: Of those, 8 124 928 were assigned this month. <-- sooo, the end of ipv4 is moving to earlier?
< 1292114780 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, that much? I blame crappy allocation
< 1292114790 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I have a fricking /48!
< 1292114798 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from sixxs
< 1292114821 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :623 553 494 712 323 IPv6 networks out of 2 305 843 009 213 693 952 (0.027%) have been allocated. current RIR pool usage is at 2.74%.
< 1292114839 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.027%? That sounds ENORMOUS? Are we really using that much of ipv6?
< 1292114839 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, still quite a lot more of it than reasonable
< 1292114852 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, it *is* enormous
< 1292114890 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess with ipv6 they can ridiculously over-provision, and still have many trillions of ipv4 networks worth of free IPs :P
< 1292114896 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, the number of network addresses allocated is about 600 trillion...
< 1292114910 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, whaaaaat?
< 1292114921 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, we *will* run out of ipv6 at this rate
< 1292114946 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The smallest allocation is a /64.
< 1292114979 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So are we out of ipv4 yet? :P
< 1292114985 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A small number of gopherspaces are IPv6-only, and the ASCII Star Wars in color is only IPv6.......
< 1292114996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There's still enough /64s to give every man, woman, child, and pet there own and have leftovers.
< 1292115000 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, it isn't in colour on ipv6 either....
< 1292115003 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/there/their/
< 1292115070 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes but that doesn't help when I got a /48...
< 1292115147 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/48 for each person on the planet would be only /15. The present defined unicast space is a /3 (4096 times bigger).
< 1292115149 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then we use hypernet next time, since hypernet uses no allocation and can therefore never be run out.
< 1292115196 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hypernet?
< 1292115197 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does IPv6 have more port numbers? Or is it the same port numbers?
< 1292115201 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, individual allocations to RIRs are bigger than that.
< 1292115210 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, that is not on ip level
< 1292115214 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is transport layer
< 1292115227 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1292115288 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, the "standard" allocation is a /48.
< 1292115290 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Can they fix DNS to allow a hostname to be associated with a IPv6 address and a port number range together?
< 1292115312 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That ... would not be a fix.
< 1292115322 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And it's still enough to grant everyone one.
< 1292115338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : zzo38, it isn't in colour on ipv6 either....
< 1292115338 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It isn't?
< 1292115339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is
< 1292115344 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It is technically possible for DNS to return an IPv6 address and a port number, but WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO?
< 1292115345 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK, The entiere present internet going IPv6-only wouldn't need enough addresses to even warrant new allocation from IANA.
< 1292115356 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No I mean a range of port numbers.
< 1292115368 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That said, if you really want to, you'd just need to create a new kind of DNS response and make software support it.
< 1292115369 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even a offset number.
< 1292115378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: Can they fix DNS to allow a hostname to be associated with a IPv6 address and a port number range together?
< 1292115379 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, is it technically possible? Wouldn't it need a new record type?
< 1292115383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That's just NAT implemented at the wrong layer.
< 1292115392 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, if you want to access SMTP on port 25, and the returned offset number is 1000 then you connect to SMTP on port 1025.
< 1292115396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That's just NAT implemented at the wrong layer.
< 1292115399 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: New record types, I'm pretty sure, can just be added.
< 1292115405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Question./
< 1292115406 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah yes indeed
< 1292115413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any POLICIES for ipv6 allocation?
< 1292115414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g.
< 1292115417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can sixxs do whatever they want?
< 1292115420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so: WHY.
< 1292115426 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there are.
< 1292115428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're a provider, not an end-customer, so they shouldn't be allowed free reign
< 1292115432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. giving Vorpal a /48 :)
< 1292115436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't be allowed unless he actually needs it
< 1292115446 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: /48 is the standard end-user allocation, actually.
< 1292115448 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I would be happy with a /64
< 1292115451 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much of the ipv6 range is reserved for extraterrestrial species?
< 1292115473 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: IPv6 is not for extraterrestrial species. You need to make IPv9 for that.
< 1292115479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my opinion, the standard allocation should be /54.
< 1292115489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course this is not workable with the way IPv6 is defined.
< 1292115492 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A /64 is only enough for that end-user to have a SINGLE IPv6 network using stateless autoconfiguration.
< 1292115501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Which is a flaw in IPv6.
< 1292115515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: A /54 is actually entirely feasible.
< 1292115515 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then there are 6 times present IPv6 unicast space reserved by IETF...
< 1292115520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Question: In 100 years, do you think IPv6 will still be almost endlessly available?
< 1292115523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Answer: No.
< 1292115529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Question: Is this avoidable?
< 1292115532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Answer: Yes, but nobody wants to.
< 1292115561 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it is handy to have some space for network number.
< 1292115577 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Actually, even with current allocation policies, it's entirely possible that it will be almost endlessly available.
< 1292115578 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even 1024 addresses should be a lot more than enough addresses for each end-user (in most cases).
< 1292115583 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise you would need to sometimes "NAT" the stuff.
< 1292115586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I doubt that.
< 1292115591 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's 281474976710655 /48s.
< 1292115595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Did you forget that technology accelerates?
< 1292115608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: As the 100 years progress, IP allocation will go up, up, up.
< 1292115612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*regular IP allocation
< 1292115615 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's 281474976710655 /48s.
< 1292115623 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, when are we due for the singularity?
< 1292115630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Indeed. /48 isn't the biggest block being handled out.
< 1292115651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Probably 100 years+. Sign up for cryonics if you hit middle age and we still don't seem to be close. :p
< 1292115658 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For ISPs, /32 is pretty standard.
< 1292115663 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still want to make a network simulator that will simulate IP networking between Earth and Mars :P
< 1292115665 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah
< 1292115666 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Okay, so there is some stupid, stupid, stupid shit regarding allocations.
< 1292115670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Who says I was joking?
< 1292115677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: s/handled/handed/
< 1292115681 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, but it was still funny
< 1292115715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think /48 is really supposed to be any sort of standard "end-user" thing, except if you're a cery large end-user; and even so, the network part of the address is supposed to reflect the routing hierarchy, not some sort of logical "owned by X" thing.
< 1292115723 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: For instance, the DoD does *not* fucking need a /12.
< 1292115740 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IPv6 workaround oddities: NAT-to-self: Perform 1:1 NAT to address itself.
< 1292115748 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed. a /60 would be quite nice instead
< 1292115753 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think it'd be a lot more reasonable to just give customers as many individual /64s as they need networks.
< 1292115756 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, whaat?
< 1292115771 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are supposed to be easily renumberable anyway.
< 1292115777 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you need internal hierarchy and only have /64...
< 1292115784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, a /13.
< 1292115797 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, /13? what a strange number
< 1292115802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Why does the DoD have a /13.
< 1292115821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Because GOD DAMMIT I WISH I KNEW IT MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE.
< 1292115824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh right because US MILITARY ONLY IMPORTANT MILITARY IN THE WORLD SO FUCKIN' BIG TO DEFEND US FROM ALL THE 0 PEOPLE ATTACKING US
< 1292115836 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: For traceability, every bullet has its own IP, and stores all interdepartmental memos on it.
< 1292115842 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's 64 times larger than *any other entity's allocation*.
< 1292115851 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't. The total marked for US is about a /18.
< 1292115860 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You're not far off.
< 1292115871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No, no. They have an IP allocated for every secret they have. WikiLeaks actually just scans the space for open ports.
< 1292115873 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody should need that many addresses, I think......
< 1292115878 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They use IPv6 addresses as a unique identifier for objects.
< 1292115884 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, shouldn't the RIRs get /32s or such?
< 1292115886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : They don't. The total marked for US is about a /18.
< 1292115887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : They don't. The total marked for US is about a /18.
< 1292115890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq seems to be ignoring this :P
< 1292115906 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now the policy seems to be that RIRs get /12 at a time.
< 1292115911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, IPv6 is being mismanged IMO; the policies need to be more stringent.
< 1292115918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How strict are the policies that apply to places like SixXS?
< 1292115931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Evidently not *too* strict, considering some of the insane, untrustworthy shit SixXS does.)
< 1292115965 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, all the IPv6 addresses allocated IN THE ENTIERE WORLD wouldn't even be a /14.
< 1292116019 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: But you don't want any sort of "internal hierarchy" that'd reflect a corporation's structure (US site, European site, etc.) to be visible in the network part, because they need to be aggregatable routing-wise. (Okay, possibly some level of internal hierarchy could be useful even for a single physical site; but I would still think also a not-necessarily-contiguous group of individual /64s would work just as well.)
< 1292116030 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Therefore you can use one block for a private network (which might even include individual files on your computer), if you need a private network.
< 1292116067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Internet is crazily geography-biased.
< 1292116068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it.
< 1292116084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't they *understand* that it's irrelevant on the net?
< 1292116093 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adress this: did you know there are more connections in a human brain then stars in in the universe?
< 1292116101 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Except that it's not irrelevant, because at some point you have to route, and you have to be able to route quickly.
< 1292116104 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The addressing is supposed to reflect the network structure so that the routing tables don't grow too much.
< 1292116129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sure, but it's in the core of *everything*.
< 1292116132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it impossible to find ARIN's list of IPv6 assignments?
< 1292116137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: CCTLDs should never have been invented.
< 1292116151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, okay, CCTLDs are good for... governments.
< 1292116154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, that's it.
< 1292116155 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just try to put two computers on seperate logical networks to the same /64.
< 1292116160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can find it for each other one.
< 1292116162 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Also, for .tv domains!
< 1292116173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That is a reason they should not have been invented too :P
< 1292116188 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: What was that related to?
< 1292116209 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That /64 might not be enough for end-user, even small one...
< 1292116217 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: You seem to be ignoring the whole "a set of individual /64s" thing.
< 1292116238 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: That sounds like one of those quotable-quotes that turns out to not actually be true.
< 1292116239 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, I can't even find which fucking *number* is the DoD's IPv6 address.
< 1292116240 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, like, a /63?
< 1292116277 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY POSSESS AN ACTUAL ASSIGNMENT, AND ARIN DOESN'T SHOW WHICH ONE IT IS.
< 1292116282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : adress this: did you know there are more connections in a human brain then stars in in the universe?
< 1292116285 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: that's false.
< 1292116290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: that's completely and utterly false.
< 1292116297 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck you, ARIN.
< 1292116305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless the universe is SIGNIFICANTLY smaller than I've been told, you're off by orders of magnitude.
< 1292116310 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: Maximally 330 trillion connections in the human brain according to Wikipedia, which is way, WAY less than the number of stars in the universe.
< 1292116316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: Where the heck did you get that info?
< 1292116333 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: Maybe "stars visible to the human eye at night".
< 1292116347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not only was the universe created 6000 years ago, but it was created to be the solar system tiled 100x100.
< 1292116352 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least i wonder how they know how many stars there are out there
< 1292116356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: As such, there are exactly 10,000 stars in the universe.
< 1292116356 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: X-D
< 1292116361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: They just GUESS!!!
< 1292116362 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not necessarily a contiguous set. Sure, not grouping them into a single block means it's two routing table entries, but it's still just one organization's clients. (I think the power-of-two sizes encourage over-allocating things.)
< 1292116374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: Or, perhaps they measure all their data and extrapolate beyond that...
< 1292116380 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: One estimate said 3*10^23.
< 1292116385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure we've measured something CLOSE to 330 trillion stars.
< 1292116387 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Biggest individual IPv6 assignments from ARIN are /22s.
< 1292116389 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm
< 1292116395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't take much to put a bunch of sensors up there and listen/look intently :P
< 1292116409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, maybe more like hundreds of thousands to hundreds of millions.
< 1292116409 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia also says minimally 100 billion times 100 billion stars in the OBSERVABLE universe.
< 1292116410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT STILL.
< 1292116418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: See, yer wrong :P
< 1292116419 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Incidentally, I have computers in different logical networks in a single /64. (Nebula's home customers get a /64 each; not sure about their corporate clients.)
< 1292116425 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k :)
< 1292116430 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, Nebula...
< 1292116443 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Did you know that there are less stars in the entire universe than there is Love in God's discarded toenail?
< 1292116460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What is the SI unit for love?
< 1292116473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Did you know that there are fewer stars in the entire universe than there are angels that can dance on the head of a pin?
< 1292116475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The Jesus.
< 1292116482 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: In terms of base units?
< 1292116495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 1 orgasm / minute.
< 1292116503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Orgasm is not a base unit.
< 1292116505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Based on measurements of Jesus)
< 1292116506 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Giving only a single /64 and then doing some things wrong, one will break neighbor discovery, making things nasty.
< 1292116510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sure it is.
< 1292116515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's the base unit of LOVE.
< 1292116523 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Photons. It's quantum.
< 1292116523 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: In every second you're being bombarded by trillions of Love of Jesus photons. This is in spite of the fact that only 0.0001% of them make it through the ozone layer.
< 1292116525 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The ozone layer is evil btw)
< 1292116532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That all came through at once.
< 1292116533 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: What do they do wrong?
< 1292116535 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The SI base units are: meter, kilogram, second, ampere, kelvin, candela, and mole.
< 1292116542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You forgot orgasm.
< 1292116544 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, so did yours, my connection is all wonkulous *shrugs*
< 1292116545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And also turkey.
< 1292116559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meter, kilogram, second, ampere, kelvin, candela, mole, orgasm and turkey.
< 1292116581 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sticks several thousand kg m^2/A s^3 through elliot

< 1292116588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm underage!
< 1292116594 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know about them now, but I heard somebody complain they broke neighbor discovery somehow in the past.
< 1292116597 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, uh. A?
< 1292116598 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: FWIW, I did the logical segmentation of the /64 with a bridging firewall (interface-based rules), and some host-lists for services that care.
< 1292116601 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ampere.
< 1292116604 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote * pikhq sticks several thousand kg m^2/A s^3 through elliot    pikhq: I'm underage!
< 1292116606 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :242) * pikhq sticks several thousand kg m^2/A s^3 through elliot    pikhq: I'm underage!
< 1292116613 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They might have; I had problems with it.
< 1292116614 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes, I thought you defined that
< 1292116617 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, wait no
< 1292116618 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh
< 1292116621 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tired
< 1292116623 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You may know that whole unit as the Volt.
< 1292116629 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah indeed
< 1292116631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: pikhq: I hope that when they figure out how to define the kilogram independently of a chunk of metal in France or wherever, they also change it to the gram instead. :P
< 1292116648 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Would be nice, but that would fuck up many, many derived units.
< 1292116650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having "kg" be the base unit and specifying that, when prefixing it, you pretend it's "g" is just COLOSSALLY STUPID.
< 1292116653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Why?
< 1292116655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kg would still be a kg.
< 1292116666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mkg! Megakilogram!
< 1292116675 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292116717 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shouldn't be on here right now
< 1292116718 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kkg: Kilokilogram
< 1292116719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, but then all of a sudden you've got orders of magnitude between the named derived units and the natural expression in base units.
< 1292116730 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think I have an awesome idea for a definition of "heat" in GoL
< 1292116740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So?
< 1292116747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The universe doesn't care about small numbers. :p
< 1292116748 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : We'll measure it in Love of Jesus photons!
< 1292116748 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And that makes things a Pain.
< 1292116751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not really.
< 1292116756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Just don't use base units when they're a pain ...
< 1292116775 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, solution: define the base unit as g. Which is defined to be 1/1000 of the weight of the prototype.
< 1292116807 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: This is not the whole thing) XOR the current generation with the next generation
< 1292116837 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blocks are completely cold, blinkers are somwhat warm, but not as hot as some chaos
< 1292116844 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Problem: the natural unit for power is the milliJoule, the natural unit for force is the milliNewton, the natural unit for resistance is the milliOhm, the natural unit for electric potential is the milliVolt, and so on and so forth.
< 1292116850 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is some hot, hot chaor.
< 1292116853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, solution: define the base unit as g. Which is defined to be 1/1000 of the weight of the prototype.
< 1292116853 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... chaos.
< 1292116859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The prototype is *really* obsolete and work is ongoing to replace it now.
< 1292116864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It is, after all, getting lighter.
< 1292116867 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I know
< 1292116885 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, take the heat for generation 1, and XOR it with the heat of generation 2
< 1292116886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Any change to g should be done simultaneously with the change to an actual definition, and there it's easy; just divide the equation by 1000 :P
< 1292116891 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes the constant factor will be annoying
< 1292116895 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similar to a second derivative
< 1292116898 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, solution: rename the kg to g
< 1292116901 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait that is painful too
< 1292116906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: Problem: the natural unit for power is the milliJoule, the natural unit for force is the milliNewton, the natural unit for resistance is the milliOhm, the natural unit for electric potential is the milliVolt, and so on and so forth.
< 1292116909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't see why.
< 1292116913 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By that measure, blinkers are completely cold
< 1292116916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Leave the other units intact.
< 1292116922 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I see why easily
< 1292116922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If something says kg, keep it saying kg.
< 1292116943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arbitrary restrictions the SI definers decided to impose shouldn't stop sanity prevailing :P
< 1292116949 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For any pattern: keep doing it. If it ever reaches 0, it's Polynomial Heat, otherwise, it's Nonpolynomial Heat
< 1292116958 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Because a Joule is a m^2 kg s^-2, and so a Joule in base units would be *100* m^2 g s^-2.
< 1292116969 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, 1000.
< 1292116979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OK. Anything wrong with that?
< 1292116993 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, *ouch*
< 1292116993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's a BITCH to do physics with!
< 1292117001 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any boring things (things that stay in one play, don't deserve to be called warm) that are nonpolynomial heat?
< 1292117002 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Which is the only time that you even care about base units!
< 1292117011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Nobody likes physicists.
< 1292117012 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, any chance of renaming the kg to be g?
< 1292117018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's terrible since g is in use.
< 1292117020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rename the kg to...
< 1292117022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the...
< 1292117025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :q!
< 1292117026 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the gram
< 1292117032 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gram to the milligram
< 1292117033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, because g is in use.
< 1292117035 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on
< 1292117037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No :P
< 1292117040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better idea:
< 1292117051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rename it to the quam.
< 1292117054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Symbol: q.
< 1292117059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kiloquam.
< 1292117060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kq.
< 1292117062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WORST NAME EVER
< 1292117067 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds absurd
< 1292117068 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just name it "klograham", where the fact that "klo" sounds a lot like "kilo" and "graham" sounds a lot like "gram" is a coincidence.
< 1292117070 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rename it to the grave, the original unit of mass in the French metric system.
< 1292117078 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The shortform for the klograham will be "kg"
< 1292117089 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hah
< 1292117107 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Said unit of mass is actually about equal to 1 kilogram.
< 1292117117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No, dammit, because then we'd have to talk about kkgs :P
< 1292117122 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, "about"?
< 1292117145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Make it the k, and then we can measure things in kkks.
< 1292117152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's effectively impossible for something other than The Kilogram to be precisely equal to 1 kilogram.
< 1292117156 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *knew it*
< 1292117169 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I knew you would make a joke about kkk....
< 1292117171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "How heavy is that dude?!" "Oh, about 3 kkk."
< 1292117177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "Not cool, man."
< 1292117181 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Whoah, heavy
< 1292117183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU
< 1292117189 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the kilogram is, of course, defined as the mass of The Kilogram. Stupid.)
< 1292117191 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD
< 1292117198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, kinda like your mom. Who is also, unrelatedly, a KKK member.
< 1292117201 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you are soooo predictable
< 1292117203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: This is because she hates black people.
< 1292117219 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's a good reason to be a KKK member.
< 1292117222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The best!
< 1292117230 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Pretty much the only, actually.
< 1292117231 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so how is the grave defined?
< 1292117269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I dunno man, their robes are pretty slick.
< 1292117285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The grave was defined as the mass of 1 cm^3 of water at the melting point of ice.
< 1292117303 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That should make more sense than The Kilogram.
< 1292117305 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The pressure and the composition of the water were not defined.
< 1292117315 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh we get circular here?
< 1292117317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: PRESSURE PUSHIN' DOWN ON ME
< 1292117318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1292117320 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then define the pressure and composition of the water!
< 1292117338 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and how is pressure defined?
< 1292117353 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: A better definition would probably fix Avogadro's number.
< 1292117374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a01QQZyl-_I
< 1292117376 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's broken?
< 1292117376 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, s/cm^3/dm^3/
< 1292117385 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AKA 1 liter (not an SI unit).
< 1292117400 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  zzo38: A better definition would probably fix Avogadro's number.  It's broken?
< 1292117401 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1292117403 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :243)  zzo38: A better definition would probably fix Avogadro's number.  It's broken?
< 1292117406 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit sad, really, here the physicists were all ready to make the perfect measurement system.  but somehow the chemist managed to get a mole in.
< 1292117419 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, he meant "fix" as in "not variable"
< 1292117427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: <3
< 1292117432 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292117440 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*chemists
< 1292117440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wait that wasn't a pun.
< 1292117443 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it should be a motherfucking unitless quantity.
< 1292117446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i thought it was :P
< 1292117453 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: um yes it was
< 1292117454 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1292117455 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it was in fact.
< 1292117459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292117460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: <3
< 1292117482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it was at first :P
< 1292117504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, COMMENT
< 1292117553 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets the pun finally

< 1292117599 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{- chirp -}
< 1292117610 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, comment on GoL heat
< 1292117621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if you don't he'll burn to death
< 1292117622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather ironic
< 1292117735 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to figure out if an (obviously impossible) dot that appears for 1 gen, then is gone for 2, then repeats, has polynomial heat or not

< 1292117805 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might need paper :/
< 1292117858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: do /you/ know the algorithm to calculate a type's induction scheme from its ADT definition?
< 1292117908 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: hm so the "nth derivative" is found by XORing the (n-1)th derivative with its next generation?
< 1292117940 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I think so
< 1292117989 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've done a similar calculation before, it's pascal's triangle mod 2:  1 11 101 1111 10001 110011 1010101 11111111 1000000001
< 1292118070 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm?
< 1292118073 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 2^n'th "derivative" in fact ends up being just the xor of two 2^n'th apart original generations
< 1292118083 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the brain-connections-issue:  if there are 10^11 neurons and each one can make 100 connections, then the total possible number of different connections is 10^13 times 10^13, which is about 10^26 ...  there are about 10^80 atoms in the universe.. how many stars did u say? 33x10^13 stars.. so it seems i was right.. elliott :>
< 1292118089 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-2-154.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292118092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ^ tell him how he's wrong i'm too lazy
< 1292118111 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so unless you have a 2^n period, it will _never_ fade out completely to 0
< 1292118113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: erm wait you know this channel is about programming right
< 1292118121 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry
< 1292118123 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;)
< 1292118141 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1292118149 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh COME ON it's no more off topic than we use to be
< 1292118161 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so, polynomial vs nonpolynomial is not too interesting/
< 1292118165 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The pseudomath in hagb4rd's last thing was too mind-bogglingly stupid for me to actually comment on.
< 1292118179 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I loved pseudomath back in my day
< 1292118184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: THAT IS WHY YOU ARE STUPID.
< 1292118204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, but if you don't correct him he'll start believing it and bring it up all the time as a reason to be awed by... something because that's what people look like do, dear god save us and reply to it.
< 1292118205 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292118207 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, linky, or just what hagb4rd last said?
< 1292118214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I beg thee.
< 1292118220 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : on the brain-connections-issue:  if there are 10^11 neurons and each one can make 100 connections, then the total possible number of different connections is 10^13 times 10^13, which is about 10^26 ...  there are about 10^80 atoms in the universe.. how many stars did u say? 33x10^13 stars.. so it seems i was right.. elliott :>
< 1292118240 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: If there are 10^11 neurons and each one can make 100 connections, then the brain can have 10^13 connections. Period.
< 1292118267 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1292118292 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mentioned this, because i think there must be an alternative way of addressing.. someway like a neural network
< 1292118339 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nevermind
< 1292118341 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also the rest of your numbers are all wrong, but that's irrelevant in the face of that wtf)
< 1292118385 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd:  hagb4rd: One estimate said 3*10^23.
< 1292118435 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: maybe you are right _if_ there were connections between almost every two neurons, but obviously there isn't
< 1292118450 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and discard the "100 connections" thing
< 1292118465 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats not really important.. im really not that good in math
< 1292118473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: It seems to me that you are not trying to find out whether it's true, you're just trying to find a way to make it true.
< 1292118476 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just forget it
< 1292118477 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Even then he'd be off by 4 orders of magnitude.
< 1292118487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: Besides, if it was true, what would it mean?
< 1292118488 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is hagb4rd trying to make true?
< 1292118493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would it be relevant? I'm actually interested.
< 1292118501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that there are more connections in the human mind than there are stars in the universe.
< 1292118538 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Stuff that uses actual physical numbers stemming from science. Bleh *gets bored*
< 1292118556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  Oh. Stuff that uses actual physical numbers stemming from science. Bleh *gets bored*
< 1292118563 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :244)  Oh. Stuff that uses actual physical numbers stemming from science. Bleh *gets bored*
< 1292118587 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell..i was just wondering about life, cosmos and stuff
< 1292118605 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excuse me!
< 1292118627 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: 42.
< 1292118632 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: btw i think they estimate the number of stars by estimating the number and sizes of galaxies (many billions) and estimating the number of stars per galaxy for those nearby enough to count stars (for our own galaxy, also many billions)
< 1292118633 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1292118638 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yess
< 1292118709 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-239-57.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292118717 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel sorry for GoL scientists, who, in a random soup beginning universe, have limited means of learning about the cosmos
< 1292118754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hell..i was just wondering about life, cosmos and stuff
< 1292118757 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i'm not sure the estimate for stars is entirely accurate - red dwarf stars are hard to observe, but then that would give an underestimate
< 1292118757 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have a way for them to determine the age of the universe, though
< 1292118760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: I just want to know what you'd conclude from your statement.
< 1292118766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is the number of stars relevant to neurons?
< 1292118791 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1292118799 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: didn't we have a previous discussion at one time where we assumed the initial soup should be very thin, to avoid too much chaos
< 1292118801 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, are there any patterns that have ONLY themselves (and other things at a distance of two empty cells or more away, of course) as parents?
< 1292118808 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I don't remember :(
< 1292118813 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[2:44]i mentioned this, because i think there must be an alternative way of addressing.. someway like a neural network <--- elliott
< 1292118816 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is such a weird experience being at a party where you speak only one of the two spoken languages there.
< 1292118824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: i do not understand
< 1292118837 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i fold
< 1292118865 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i do not understand" is an invitation to speak, not an insult.. at least, if it were coming from me. elliott is caustic
< 1292118874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i am actually asking hagb4rd what he means
< 1292118874 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, it felt weird trying to avoid capitals in that
< 1292118881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i legitimately don't understand and want to know
< 1292118904 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no idea about self-parent patterns
< 1292118915 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes thanks np sgeo, but im not really intrested, sry ;)
< 1292118953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: don't reply to me saying you're right if you're not going to elaborate when i ask sincerely.
< 1292118963 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because if there were, and there was some chaos in the universe, and they knew how often some such patterns should appear, and know how likely such patterns are to decay, etc. etc.
< 1292118971 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not "decay"
< 1292118976 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But be hit by random universe chaos
< 1292118997 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is similar to decay, kind of
< 1292119076 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I still don't remember that discussion :(
< 1292119096 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well i'm not sure who was there
< 1292119114 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was many months ago, at least
< 1292119199 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea i think was that it would be easier for life to survive in such an environment
< 1292119424 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292119541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if i start an esowiki project to create formal definitions of the multiple facets of Turing-completeness, accounting for disagreements about ais-style proofs, and Befunge/index.php type scenarios and Easy, can I coerce you into participating?
< 1292119556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need an actual mathematician to give the scribbles credibility :D
< 1292119564 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very unlikely
< 1292119673 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I would like there to be such a project on esowiki, though.
< 1292119675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: free cookies.
< 1292120032 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "Befunge/index.php"?
< 1292120045 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free air!
< 1292120072 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, doesn't TCness have a formal definition?
< 1292120084 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in the original church-turing thingy
< 1292120094 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But sometimes there are strange circumstances
< 1292120107 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, ... go on
< 1292120108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Church-Turing thesis? If so: that's just a non-mathematical conjecture.
< 1292120119 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :èlhm
< 1292120121 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1292120122 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm*
< 1292120127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Befunge/index.php is my language which ais523 has proved both TC and not.
< 1292120132 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: See the [[Befunge/index.php]] and [[Easy]] pages on the esolang wiki for more information.
< 1292120134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"    Proof that the language is Turing-complete: you can trivially write a BF interpreter in it, by reading strings from user input onto the stack (easy in Befunge-93), then running them.
< 1292120134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Proof that the language is not Turing-complete: it's impossible to compile all Turing machines into it, because there are an infinite number of Turing machines yet a finite number of Befunge/index.php programs."
< 1292120152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Easy has the same basic situation (there's one program and it's a brainfuck interpreter).
< 1292120170 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, .... wow
< 1292120175 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(about those proofs)
< 1292120181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The basic definition used is... "can emulate all universal Turing machines", although it's hard to distinguish that from "can emulate *a* universal Turing machine" and ... it's basically a clusterfuck.
< 1292120182 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually one is false I think
< 1292120199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Both are true. They exploit the informality of the definition of Turing-complete.
< 1292120208 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sometimes we get even more strange situations.....
< 1292120211 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in the second case, what is the input
< 1292120214 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and what is the program
< 1292120216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What?
< 1292120242 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is the input not actually part of the program?
< 1292120277 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if we get rid of the concept of input this can trivially be resolved. Since all input is then part of the program
< 1292120290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That does not solve the problem in the slightest.
< 1292120296 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how does it not?
< 1292120305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It may solve it for Befunge/index.php but it doesn't solve it for anything else.
< 1292120310 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay
< 1292120321 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it also solves it for Easy
< 1292120331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy is a pathological case :P
< 1292120338 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, easy to solve yes
< 1292120360 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, P'' had no I/O. I/O has no place in a definition of TC.
< 1292120366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes it does.
< 1292120375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same reason it's in the Halting problem.
< 1292120376 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it just complicates stuff
< 1292120378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO is just functions.
< 1292120381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functions have results.
< 1292120384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functions have inputs.
< 1292120384 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1292120389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, what we need is multiple precise, mathematical definitions; it seems clear that there are at least three things people mean when saying "Turing-complete" and surely certainly more; these should all be formalised separately.
< 1292120409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Pipe dream: Coq library with all of them defined and a framework for proving things are $variation_on_TC in Coq.)
< 1292120414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That would be really nice.)
< 1292120430 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why the silly name Befunge/index.php?
< 1292120475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Talk:Befunge/index.php was created protected because it was a frequent spambot target. ais noted in his protect message that it would only be useful in the unlikely case that someone invented a language named Befunge/index.php.
< 1292120487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, of course, being me...
< 1292120508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I created it just to troll the esolang wiki into arguing over its TCness :P But I didn't think it was actually legitimately ambiguous.
< 1292120514 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "In spring of this year on the IRC channel I proposed a language called ℒ. ℒ is a severely restricted subset of your favourite indisputably Turing-complete language (say, Pascal) -- so severely restricted, in fact, that you can only write a single program in ℒ. But that program is a Universal Turing Machine simulator. Is ℒ Turing-complete? "
< 1292120521 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: hagb4rd
< 1292120523 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I remember that discussion
< 1292120533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: indeed
< 1292120553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey adamantly holds the position that you must be able to write a program for *every* Turing machine to qualify as TC
< 1292120566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., a brainfuck interpreter where you can specify an input of arbitrary size in the interpreter program qualifies
< 1292120573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as a proof)
< 1292120580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not a "regular" brainfuck interpreter that reads from stdin
< 1292120592 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1292120597 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how does that even make sense
< 1292120621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It makes perfect sense.
< 1292120648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If the program size is bounded, then there isn't a program for every Turing machine.
< 1292120667 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and blah blah blah this is boring shut up Chris." <--- what
< 1292120706 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed
< 1292120717 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but why does there have to be one for every TM?
< 1292120746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because otherwise the language where there's only one program and it's a BF interpreter is TC.
< 1292120778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It is, of course, completely useless and you can't write any program you want in it.
< 1292120792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey believes this is sufficient justification for not believing it to be TC; your definition may vary.
< 1292120803 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Issues of input
< 1292120807 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in some sense of TC he is right
< 1292120812 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moral of the story, TC is ambiguous.
< 1292120816 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds almost like when I deluded myself into thinking I disproved God via math
< 1292120816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: My WHOLE POINT is that there are multiple valid definitions.
< 1292120818 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed
< 1292120820 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed
< 1292120821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What?
< 1292120824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No, that just sounds idiotic.
< 1292120856 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort of decided that uncomputable meant unknowable, and that therefore Chaitin's constant was an unknowable number
< 1292120870 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if God's supposed to know everything...
< 1292120901 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my idea of "uncomputable = unknowable" had something to do with Oracle machines and input
< 1292120907 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "Rock heavy enough God can't lift it" is the same damned argument.
< 1292120934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the best "mathematical" argument for god is the natural numbers. And even that's silly.
< 1292120942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You do realise we know values of the Busy Beaver function, which is uncomputable?
< 1292120942 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, except yours is weaker. "Uncomputable" generally means "uncomputable using a UTM", not... That.
< 1292121000 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b7e63.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292121012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Also, you can work out N prefix bits of a given halting constant with a lot of effort.
< 1292121027 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For any N?
< 1292121035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Depends how good a mathematician you are...
< 1292121059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The first four bits of binary lambda calculus's Chaitin's constant are .0001.
< 1292121090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I mean, you can do it just by looking at every program with N bits in it and proving whether it halts or not.
< 1292121097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it's just numberthathalt/numberthatdon't.
< 1292121119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So for a simple language like binary lambda calculus, it's not hard to calculate the first few bits.
< 1292121137 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. It has been proven that Sigma(12) > g1.
< 1292121162 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I was thinking "Oracle machine hooked up to input to make machine that outputs a Chaitin's constant using fewer... symbols than should be expected".
< 1292121163 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(g1 being the starting value in the sequence that defined Graham's number)
< 1292121165 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something like that
< 1292121173 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I mention I no longer believe this?
< 1292121192 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is to say, it's greater than 3 uparrow^4 3)
< 1292121226 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Hmm. Actually, the lower bound for the entire sequence is known.
< 1292121252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigma(2k) > 3 uparrow^k-2 3.
< 1292121268 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... Absurd.
< 1292121302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What an upper bound :P
< 1292121317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1292121319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wow. Lower bound.
< 1292121321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Lovely :P
< 1292121337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not sure I believe in numbers that big.
< 1292121340 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's Sigma(12)
< 1292121356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: busy beaver
< 1292121360 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Sigma(n) is the Busy Beaver function.
< 1292121365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292121370 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: G_1 is 3^^^^3, if it's defined correctly.  :P
< 1292121374 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G_0 is, of course, 4.
< 1292121398 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: ... Yes...
< 1292121399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: And G_2 is a pony!
< 1292121407 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Precisely.  G_2 is a pony.
< 1292121424 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: And G_64 is insane.
< 1292121427 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also a pony.
< 1292121433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we should just replace every number larger than, say, 26 in mathematical literature with a pink, sparkly picture of a pony.
< 1292121436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be much nicer.
< 1292121450 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think 27 is an important number, so we should keep it.
< 1292121460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I think pony is an important number too.
< 1292121488 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :163 is also a pretty important number, come to think of it, because e^(pi*sqrt(163)) is within 0.0000000000001 of an integer.
< 1292121505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: It's also within 0 of an integer!*
< 1292121511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*0 is a rounded value here
< 1292121527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "Semi-implicit batched remote code execution as staging" --Oleg
< 1292121535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hypothesis: For any string of words, Oleg can be smarter than you about it.
< 1292121537 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think we should replace the term "number" with "pink, sparkly picture of a pony".
< 1292121543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: YES.
< 1292121551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graham's pink, sparkly picture of a pony is very large.
< 1292121563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would take more space than there is in the universe to draw it.
< 1292121609 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same is true of the g1 pink, sparkly picture of a pony.
< 1292121635 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's larger than the pink, sparkly picture of a pony of Planck volumes in the Universe.
< 1292121667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://okmij.org/ftp/DreamOS.html
< 1292121842 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, Planck units are most definitely the most awesome system of units ever.
< 1292121977 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's definitely something to be said for E=m.
< 1292122001 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU MEAN E = m^2 + p^2
< 1292122020 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1292122022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: E=E
< 1292122023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHOA
< 1292122025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'M LIKE AYN RAND
< 1292122028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*YOU MEAN E^2 = m^2 + p^2
< 1292122030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXCEPT 4 LETTERS ONWARDS
< 1292122032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DUUUUDE
< 1292122044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you mean E = vibrating strings
< 1292122047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION prepares for swatting

< 1292122067 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats elliott in E minor -----###

< 1292122076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: No, I definitely meant E=m. Who cares about the energy of an object in motion, anyways? :P
< 1292122130 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT IS THE KIND OF ATTITUDE THAT HAS LEAD TO THE CURRENT OBESITY EPIDEMIC
< 1292122162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D
< 1292122176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you need like a web form where people can file requests to be married to you, just for a few weeks
< 1292122179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be very profitable
< 1292122193 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D
< 1292122218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: don't you agree, i mean
< 1292122224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that comment totally warrants brief matrimony.
< 1292122233 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Totally.
< 1292122251 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Warrants brief polyamorous matrimony.
< 1292122258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO HE'S ALL MINE
< 1292122264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets swatten

< 1292122402 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292122478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "InDecember 1999, it was found that Netscape Communicator used ROT-13 as part of an insecure scheme to store email passwords."
< 1292122481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*In December
< 1292122525 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1292122884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hmm. Can you change the page size on x86-64?
< 1292122964 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1292122982 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1292123062 0 :nooga_!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292123558 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nope. The page sizes are fixed.
< 1292123583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: That's a shame. 4K is so tiny.
< 1292123592 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there are 4MB ones too...
< 1292123693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Eh?
< 1292123698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: You can use 4MB pages?
< 1292123744 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-239-57.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292123787 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's flag in second-to-lowest page table structure on if the entry is pointer to 1024 page structure or pointer to page itself (if it is pointer to page, it will be 4MB).
< 1292123870 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, at least late iteration X86s supported 4MB pages, and I presume X86-64s do too...)
< 1292123923 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or it might be that X86-64 had 4kB and 2MB page sizes...
< 1292123949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Hmm... would be nice to have something inbetween, say 1MB.
< 1292124001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86-64 supports up to 1GiB pages.
< 1292124038 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, only three page sizes: 4KiB, 2MiB and 1GiB (which may not be supported).
< 1292124049 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right, those are the only ones.
< 1292124090 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 base, PSE+PAE, and... Absurd.
< 1292124125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1GiB pages X-D
< 1292124133 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay, it's only absurd with respect to the currently available RAM, not with respect to address space or all of what could reasonably *have* an address.)
< 1292124133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a whole 12 pages on a super-high-end desktop system!
< 1292124150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although in THIS case I actually have all of disk. But not all of it will have page entries.
< 1292124166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, that's 2048 theoretical maximum pages on the biggest reasonable consumer disk manufactured today :P
< 1292124167 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason why it is 1GiB is that it is next level of aggeration (512 2MiB pages).
< 1292124215 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like 2MiB/4MiB is the next step from 4KiB.
< 1292124232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how easy is it to use 2 MiB pages in an OS? I mean, compared to the code requires to use 4 KiB.
< 1292124291 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if one wanted to use 2MiB pages only, perhaps even sightly simpler than using 4KiB pages...
< 1292124309 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since that would cause one page table level to vanish.
< 1292124319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: For a 4 MiB page, one simply sets the PSE flag in the page table.
< 1292124325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds nice.
< 1292124329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll do that, then.
< 1292124348 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: For a 2 MiB page, one simply also supports PAE, which has the side effect of halving the larger page size.
< 1292124369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And x86-64 is based on PAE.
< 1292124377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (Great idea, that; base your next-generation future-proof architecture on a massive hack.)
< 1292124408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They really, really should have thrown out more of x86 with that.
< 1292124441 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least they threw out most of segmentation...
< 1292124480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: still have to deal with it in real mode :)
< 1292124497 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, segmentation only exists for privilege seperation now, thankfully.
< 1292124521 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, 32 bit protected mode is the worst...
< 1292124530 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 16-bit.
< 1292124532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: It would be wonderful if x86-64 specified some IO port stuff you could do that would make it automatically turn on the A20 line and switch into long mode, and give some flag back that x86 wouldn't (make it be something that does nothing on plain x86).
< 1292124555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Then you could just make your initial bootsector be "shove to IO port; check response; if it's good, jump into 64-bit code; otherwise error message".
< 1292124558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But noooo.
< 1292124572 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, measure of heat that is simpler than "destroyed blocks", but has the same "problem" of internal activity with no external activity being cold: Draw a bounding box. Count how many generations it takes for an escape of the bounding box. 1/that is the heat
< 1292124573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have to go through real mode, check CPUID, disable the A20 line ourselves, go into protected mode, and go into long mode.
< 1292124580 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Or even *write an actual address to jump to* to that IO port.
< 1292124597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That would work, but IO ports touching the instruction pointer feels really weird to me.
< 1292124603 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that's crap
< 1292124613 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Fair enough.
< 1292124640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Right now I'm going slowly (quickly) insane trying to get into long mode and set up a page fault handler.
< 1292124645 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Draw bounding box. Advance until it's about to escape. Count how many cells escape
< 1292124671 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do some fudge factor to make it comparible usefully
< 1292124776 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... Huh. PAE is actually nowhere near as bad of a hack as you'd think.
< 1292124813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It totally is, though. :p
< 1292124828 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Setting the PAE bit of CR4 changes the entire page data structure.
< 1292124838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm.
< 1292124903 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Each entry in the page table becomes double the size, and there's another level of nesting in the paging.
< 1292124938 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And x86-64 adds yet another level of nesting.
< 1292124939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: hey can you link me to your protected mode / long mode snippets so i can steal them again :D
< 1292125136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha found it
< 1292125184 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292125767 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1292125882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Paging sure is complicated.
< 1292125890 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love headphones.
< 1292125930 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...you don't seem to be on the same page
< 1292125955 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parties are loud. And I wish not to leave the basement.
< 1292125967 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And headphones solve much of the noise problem.
< 1292125994 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oddly enough, parties are even *louder* when half of the people in attendance are deaf.
< 1292126047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq: Paging sure is complicated.
< 1292126055 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Tis.
< 1292126060 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Segmentation sucks.
< 1292126162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I JUST WANT TO GO INTO LONG MODE WHY DO I HAVE TO SET ALL THIS STUFF UP MAN? YOU HATE ME, CPU
< 1292126216 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Would it make you feel better to know that they actually expend valuable wafer space on this bullshit?
< 1292126220 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Probably not, no.
< 1292126261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm not entirely sure *what* is in the wafer of a modern x86-64 processor... everything's so small that they can fit Micro Manhattan in there, and yet chips aren't really getting smaller... WAIT!
< 1292126264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've figured it out!
< 1292126272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: To comply with the GFDL, they have a copy of Wikipedia in there.
< 1292126280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, that's the source of ALL computing bloat.
< 1292126299 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you're so wrong, it hurts
< 1292126317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: You mean they don't REALLY have a copy of Wikipedia in there to comply with the GFDL???????????????????????????
< 1292126376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: ????????????/////////////////
< 1292126378 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: All computing bloat but that of Microsoft.
< 1292126388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, they have a copy of Wikipedia in there too. It's a long story.
< 1292126404 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, they have 1) a compiler 2) a VM 3) an interpreter 4) an optimizer 5) a copy of Windows 6) several encryption/compression algorithms, such as AES, DES, and MPEG
< 1292126408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Microsoft also has a copy of every single version of Windows in there, for the sake of compatibility.
< 1292126409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292126419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: WOW THAT IS GOOD TO KNOW, BECAUSE I WAS BEING TOTALLY SERIOUS
< 1292126421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you're full of shit
< 1292126431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since when does x86-64 have an interpreter in it
< 1292126432 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: On the silicon?
< 1292126433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or an optimiser
< 1292126446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they have shit to SUPPORT MPEG, but they don't have an actual MPEG codec.
< 1292126447 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, *my* processor has those
< 1292126449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be ridiculous.
< 1292126451 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: No.
< 1292126456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: on what grounds do you claim this?
< 1292126467 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the docs.
< 1292126470 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: It has opcodes to make those algorithms more efficient.
< 1292126472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Which docs?
< 1292126489 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.via.com.tw/en/initiatives/padlock/hardware.jsp
< 1292126494 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :among others
< 1292126507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: OK, link me to the page where it says "We have an actual complete MPEG decoder in hardware."
< 1292126558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: I'm waiting...
< 1292126563 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/processors/c7/ "all VIA C-Series mobile chipsets integrate hardware MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 decoding acceleration"
< 1292126575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: That's marketing bullshit. Note "acceleration".
< 1292126577 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That acceleration is not a full MPEG decoder.
< 1292126588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: What they mean is there are instructions dedicated to certain tasks which, when implemented in an MPEG decoder, speed up the process.
< 1292126589 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Odds are, it's a fast inverse discrete cosine transform.
< 1292126600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Now where's the interpreter? And the optimiser?
< 1292126621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: (Also the copy of Windows...)
< 1292126643 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: pretty standard features... it interprets the machine instructions, and optimizes them when it can
< 1292126660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: That's not an interpreter ... That's silicon.
< 1292126666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so it's microcode, but it's *not* an interpreter.
< 1292126675 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psshh
< 1292126675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: And no, CPUs aren't in the business of optimising their instructions...
< 1292126689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Pipelining and the like, yes. Branch prediction, yes. Outright optimisation, *no*, far too expensive.
< 1292126695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: OK, where's the compiler?
< 1292126701 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I call pipelining optimization
< 1292126707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: OK, where's the compiler?
< 1292126718 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiler = interpreter + optimization, obviously
< 1292126721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: I call anything faster than a room full of females optimization.
< 1292126729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: And NO IT FUCKING ISN'T.
< 1292126741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is ... not what a compiler is.
< 1292126748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what an optimising interpreter is.
< 1292126763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: You're obviously just trolling, so here we go: where's the claimed copy of Windows?
< 1292126798 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: see #2 in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial_evaluation#Futamura_projections
< 1292126816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: I know what the Futamura projections are. Specialisation is one of my great loves.
< 1292126827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: An interpreter and an optimiser together do NOT a specialiser make.
< 1292126831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have no idea what you are talking about.
< 1292126837 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Specialisation is *very* different from optimization.
< 1292126847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A specialiser optimises, but an optimiser doesn't specialise.
< 1292126862 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Actually, a specialiser doesn't necessarily optimise.
< 1292126868 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, whatever. I'll agree there's (probably) no copy of Windows
< 1292126872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's a useless specialiser if it doesn't.
< 1292126883 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Never said it was a *useful* specialiser. :)
< 1292126929 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Where's the VM?
< 1292126953 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you mean "virtual memory" by that, I'll hunt you down and kick you into next week.)
< 1292126982 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I start weeks on Sundays, that means tomorrow.
< 1292127004 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'll just fall asleep instead of letting you kick me
< 1292127006 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Far* into next week.
< 1292127015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: You really don't start weeks on Sundays, you just claim to.
< 1292127043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have noted several people who like to say that for them the week starts on Sunday and they all feel very strongly about it being "right". They also go "oh no, the weekend is over, it's Monday and a new week begins!!!111".
< 1292127048 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no... sunday is "noneday", and I count starting from 0
< 1292127056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: No you don't. You really don't.
< 1292127065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're just saying that because it sounds interesting.
< 1292127099 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sunday the unday
< 1292127119 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no... listen to J. H. Conway some time
< 1292127147 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Stop being psuedoïntelligent for a bit.
< 1292127157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: are you just naming all these things and people thinking I don't know what or who they are?
< 1292127165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Presumably you are referring to the Domesday algorithm.
< 1292127169 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes...
< 1292127180 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Doomsday.
< 1292127186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: But I am about 90% sure that you do not, actually, think of Sunday as Noneday. And that you do not actually start counting at 0.
< 1292127188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Whatever :P
< 1292127194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: At least not for days of the week.
< 1292127253 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how I could tell where I start counting, other than saying that I do
< 1292127290 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stopped counting out loud long long ago...
< 1292127302 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fairly certain that he typically just thinks of the names of celestial bodies and/or associated deities with "day" appended for the days of the week.
< 1292127366 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what? then why would I have trouble remembering how to spell "Wednesday"?
< 1292127405 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Because you have *extreme* difficulty remembering the Old English term for Odin.
< 1292127453 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, you might be right
< 1292127536 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know enough about Odin to know if I've forgotten about (it/him/...)
< 1292127701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: https://gist.github.com/657234#LID75 In which olsner manages to make me hate real mode.
< 1292127703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm.
< 1292127705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: https://gist.github.com/657234#LID75 In which olsner manages to make me hate long mode.
< 1292127846 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Clearly, "jmp rip+0" should be enough to initial long mode.
< 1292127851 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Initiate.
< 1292127874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: MAKE THE PAIN GO AWAY
< 1292127959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION puts elliot out of his misery

< 1292127967 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION also puts elliott into further misery.

< 1292127968 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1292128000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_;
< 1292129174 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multicast:manypeople::?:oneperson
< 1292129207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: unicast
< 1292129212 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kk
< 1292129213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: (this is the technical term)
< 1292129218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: also dude you can use spaces
< 1292129220 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx
< 1292129224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multicast:many people :: ?:one person
< 1292129237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm quintopia
< 1292129242 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh
< 1292129250 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a stylistic thing
< 1292129255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard to read. :p
< 1292129287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Fun fact! "if (write(fd,buf,n) < 0) { perror("write"); exit(1); }" prints "write: Success" and exits with failure on HALF of all possible bufs.
< 1292129306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Why? Because sizeof(size_t) = sizeof(ssize_t); write takes the former and returns the latter.
< 1292129309 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:VLC_Icon.svg
< 1292129312 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION stares

< 1292129315 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PERTY GRADIENTS
< 1292129318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (I suppose one could make ssize_t a bigger integer, but nobody does.)
< 1292129318 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRADIENTS
< 1292129325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You're fucking psycho.
< 1292129353 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a reason I have a link to a bunch of Nuvola icons on User:Sgeo
< 1292129375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because you're fucking psycho?
< 1292129410 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Nuvola-like_mail_internet.PNG you can't tell me that this isn't pretty
< 1292129447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It really isn't.
< 1292129458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That globe-and-plug thing looks awful on it. As well as making evry little sense.
< 1292129463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the envelope has an awkward angle.
< 1292129469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ... no, no it's not pretty. You're insane.
< 1292129485 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about just the globe part?
< 1292129535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: IT'S NOT PRETTY
< 1292129544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could not stare at it for more than two seconds.
< 1292129561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nuvola is one of the worst icon sets ever created, switching to it turns your desktop into a lens flare generator.
< 1292129609 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gibbers in joy at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuvola

< 1292129619 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes
< 1292129621 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gibbering
< 1292129628 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in "gibbering idiot" right?
< 1292129642 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it "gibbering lunatic"?
< 1292129699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: HAPPY FOURTH BIRTHDAY
< 1292129725 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um
< 1292129733 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are there GNOME icons for Nuvola
< 1292129736 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: link me to something you would describe as pretty
< 1292129740 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nuvola makes me think very KDE thoughts
< 1292129743 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the visually attractive sense)
< 1292129757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Imagine the opposite of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuvola#Examples_of_icons.
< 1292129779 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's a subjective thing.  link me to the opposite for you -.-
< 1292129788 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WANT TO KNOW HOW YOUR MIND WORKS
< 1292129794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Link to something pretty" is a pretty vague question ...
< 1292129802 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed.
< 1292129805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kind of hard to do on the spot.
< 1292129820 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next time you see something pretty, link me
< 1292129821 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is pretty imo: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Nuvola_icons
< 1292129932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: It's hard. "This is pretty" is a rare thought for me; "beautiful" maybe.
< 1292129942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prettiness tends to be rather vapid and flashy ... like Nuvola ...
< 1292129949 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: beautiful is good enough.  do that then.
< 1292129958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: But that's even harder.
< 1292129968 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't go out of your way
< 1292129974 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just next time it happens and you remember
< 1292129984 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is just trying to hide the fact he thinks _everything_ is ugly
< 1292129994 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh geez yeah those icons suck balls
< 1292129997 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION whistles innocently

< 1292130021 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: must be a lonely sad depressing life
< 1292130041 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For regular use maybe, I don't know, but surely to look at on occasion...
< 1292130048 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE WERE TALKING ABOUT HIM NOT ME
< 1292130073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i think plenty of things are beautiful, oerjan just likes to project his crankiness onto me :)
< 1292130090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah nuvola is like staring at a lightbulb
< 1292130109 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIES
< 1292130214 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I ever mentioned the dumb stuff I've done with a lightbulb
< 1292130257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Oh god.
< 1292130272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Come to think of it, the last few things I've thought "wow, that's pretty" have probably been in Minecraft, and I probably didn't screenshot them.
< 1292130279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such is the way of random number generators.
< 1292130297 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292130446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: http://www.math.cornell.edu/~mec/2008-2009/HoHonLeung/fig.7.png This might be pretty.
< 1292130451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, I am no good at introspection.
< 1292130478 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a trefoil eh?
< 1292130495 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you like symmetry?
< 1292130512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I suppose so? :p
< 1292130534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 3D version http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/trefoil.gif would be nicer, except the shading and colours are horrible.
< 1292130539 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like my women as symmetrical as i can get them, so i suppose i can relate :P
< 1292130567 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :render your own trefoil in a raytracer
< 1292130585 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ball-shaped women ftw
< 1292130587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah. i've never used a raytracer and don't really want to
< 1292130594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D
< 1292130630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: google helped me find this http://i35.tinypic.com/1r42zd.jpg
< 1292130632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :symmetrical!
< 1292130664 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mirrored people always look bizarre.
< 1292130670 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even me, and i'm perfect
< 1292130694 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, symmetry isn't my only criterion in women)
< 1292130700 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to self: Stop looking at blinkers as being + shaped. They're not
< 1292130700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: that's offensive, i was in a mirror accident and now my second half is a permanent mirror
< 1292130704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typing is kind of difficult
< 1292130749 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With narrow spacing of blocks, even the block definition of heat has blinkers being warm
< 1292130750 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote < elliott> quintopia: that's offensive, i was in a mirror accident and now my second half is a permanent mirror
< 1292130757 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that how that works...
< 1292130760 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rifj yeotu slaøy lseo
< 1292130773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how did i parse that
< 1292130776 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :245) < elliott> quintopia: that's offensive, i was in a mirror accident and now my second half is a permanent mirror
< 1292130781 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good
< 1292130790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i 's/< ell/ quintopia: that's offensive, i was in a mirror accident and now my second half is a permanent mirror
< 1292130797 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it that hackbot has such a long warm-up period?
< 1292130799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1292130803 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i don't know, did it make sense?
< 1292130810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i 's/\< ell/ quintopia: that's offensive, i was in a mirror accident and now my second half is a permanent mirror
< 1292130814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go
< 1292130822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes
< 1292130828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "if you say so"
< 1292130836 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: while you're at it, tack the typing thing on the end
< 1292130840 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292130845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: wut?
< 1292130846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1292130847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: wut?
< 1292130858 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next line "typing is kind of difficult"
< 1292130881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody's said that
< 1292130894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292130895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did
< 1292130895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292130909 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must have been the mirror half
< 1292130918 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it just a line in a plaintext file?
< 1292130920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i '245s/$/   typing is kind of difficult/' quotes
< 1292130924 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292130927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yep. it was previously a sqlite db
< 1292130932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i chucked all that out and rewrote the system unixy
< 1292130936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 245
< 1292130938 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :245)  quintopia: that's offensive, i was in a mirror accident and now my second half is a permanent mirror   typing is kind of difficult
< 1292130989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/quotes is the raw quote database
< 1292131006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:53:32  addquote http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/addquote
< 1292131006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:53:32  allquotes http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/allquotes
< 1292131006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:53:32  quote http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/quote
< 1292131006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:53:32  pastequotes http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/pastequotes
< 1292131006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:53:32  And the latest quote database is always available at http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/quotes.
< 1292131013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: ^ all the sources
< 1292131014 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose flat files makes sense for a channel this small, but when i create a hackbot to take over the IRC universe, it will use a db :P
< 1292131025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: well, there's actually now also http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/pastenquotes
< 1292131029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: and it was *way* slower with a DB
< 1292131039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: unix is fast.
< 1292131058 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why i wouldn't switch over until 100000 quotes
< 1292131086 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or until i need the ability to search for specific quotes easily by content)
< 1292131090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: err, i can do that
< 1292131094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quotes oklo
< 1292131095 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292131101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...well it usually works :D
< 1292131105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it's called grep.
< 1292131107 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you can only use regexes and such
< 1292131115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: as opposed to...
< 1292131122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: and even after 100000 quotes it still wouldn't be faster than e.g. a strfile-indexed file
< 1292131124 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't attach category lists to quotes
< 1292131139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: nobody can be arsed to do that.
< 1292131152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody fundamentally gives a shit about qdbs, good luck trying to make them
< 1292131160 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would write a learning system to do it if i had 100000 quotes to categorize :P
< 1292131168 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quotes ell
< 1292131169 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292131177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1292131178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote ell
< 1292131180 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :29) PA ET ANNET UNIVERSET DER DE ENESTE PERSONEN OERJAN:  sa jeg kan bare konkludere med at det er feil, eller er verden helt bonkers \ 53)  Gregor is often a scandalous imposter. It's all the hats, I tell you. \ 75)  ehird: every set can be well-ordered. corollary: every set s has the same diagram used
< 1292131185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf?
< 1292131187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls -l bin/quotes
< 1292131190 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 9 Dec 12 05:19 bin/quotes -> bin/quote
< 1292131191 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i realize that i'm never going to do this, it being that i don't give a shit either)
< 1292131196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote oklo
< 1292131198 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :37)  i can get an erection out of a plank, you can quote me on that. \ 39)  anyway, torture would be fun to experience, true   should put that on my todo list \ 42)  i'm my dad's unborn sister \ 52)  oklofok: I'm a tad over-apologetic. I apologize. \ 55)  GregorR: are you
< 1292131202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quotes oklo
< 1292131203 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292131204 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: bin/bin/quote?
< 1292131205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SYMLINK FAIL
< 1292131210 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god it's so active in here tonight
< 1292131212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cd bin; ls -l quotes
< 1292131214 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 9 Dec 12 05:19 quotes -> bin/quote
< 1292131216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: LOZL
< 1292131224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run unlink bin/quotes; cd bin; ln -s quote quotes
< 1292131225 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wareya: RUN IN FEAR
< 1292131226 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292131227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quotes oklo
< 1292131230 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292131231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quotes oklo
< 1292131232 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :37)  i can get an erection out of a plank, you can quote me on that. \ 39)  anyway, torture would be fun to experience, true   should put that on my todo list \ 42)  i'm my dad's unborn sister \ 52)  oklofok: I'm a tad over-apologetic. I apologize. \ 55)  GregorR: are you
< 1292131235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1292131245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastequotes 
< 1292131247 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.16424
< 1292131252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.16424
< 1292131253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best quotes
< 1292131267 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's the best way to select a random line?
< 1292131269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy SHIT it's 5:20 am!
< 1292131270 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastequotes 
< 1292131273 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.22726
< 1292131275 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastequotes 
< 1292131283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I use shuf; http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/quote
< 1292131284 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.17216
< 1292131295 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 69
< 1292131295 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :69)  if a girl is that cute, i don't care how many penises she has \ 169) (in #irp)  Flonk, ask on #esoteric?   Sgeo: yeah well its C++, so not that esoteric :P
< 1292131298 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, why are those links broken?
< 1292131301 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote  Vorpal loves the sodomy.   elliott, sure why not \ 232)  [...] ALWAYS OPEN TO TRYING NEW THINGS. \ 233)  So it's not exactly trivial. [Later about same thing]  It's a trivial C program :P \ 241)  ONLY GOOD QUOTES PLEASE!  AND NO FAKE ONES EITHER! \ 242) * pikhq sticks
< 1292131303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: give it time
< 1292131306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try reloading
< 1292131314 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It'd be nice if `quote 69 didn't give you 169 and 269 too :P
< 1292131319 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote  if a girl is that cute, i don't care how many penises she has
< 1292131338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: `quote ^69\) :P
< 1292131356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't want to make it impossible to search for a number. Admittedly you could do that by doing (93) or whatever.
< 1292131358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Okay, I'll do it.
< 1292131379 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad I've made such persuasive arguments.
< 1292131424 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 69)
< 1292131425 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292131432 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: poor you and your lack of sleep
< 1292131438 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My quotes are boring
< 1292131445 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my quotes are non-existent
< 1292131450 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  My quotes are boring
< 1292131452 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :246)  My quotes are boring
< 1292131453 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then i don't talk
< 1292131464 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't get a word in edgewise next to elliott :P
< 1292131473 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliquintopia
< 1292131475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: nobody can, the graphs prove it
< 1292131497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i was the most active talker when i was only on for two hours or so, at night, on an iphone, concealing this fact
< 1292131504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my life's achievement
< 1292131505 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the evidence before the court is incontrovertible, there's no need for the jury to retire.
< 1292131519 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I still like XOR Heat, despite the uselessness of polynomial heat vs not
< 1292131529 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(verdict: you have no life)
< 1292131539 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP elliott
< 1292131562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: hard to have a life in a mental unit.
< 1292131577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd have gone insane without the wonders of mobile data links.
< 1292131632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '#!/bin/sh' >bin/quote
< 1292131633 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292131638 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely you could have smuggled a knife into your room somehow?  there's no end of fun to be had with a knife...
< 1292131641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then' >>bin/quote
< 1292131641 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292131648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '    if [ "$(($1+0))" = "$1" ]; then' >>bin/quote
< 1292131649 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292131653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: good to know your sanity is still intact
< 1292131659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '        sed "$1{p;q};d"' >>bin/quote
< 1292131660 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292131665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '    else' >>bin/quote
< 1292131666 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292131671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '        egrep -i -- "$1"' >>bin/quote
< 1292131672 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292131677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '    fi' >>bin/quote
< 1292131678 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292131679 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Good lord man X_X
< 1292131682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'else shuf -n 1; fi' >>bin/quote
< 1292131683 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292131687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i actually wrote those lines on the spot!
< 1292131694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that sentence would be true, were it not a lie!
< 1292131698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote penis
< 1292131699 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :69)  if a girl is that cute, i don't care how many penises she has \ 106)  A person's sex is not the same thing as their penis length.
< 1292131703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 69
< 1292131704 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :69)  if a girl is that cute, i don't care how many penises she has \ 69)  if a girl is that cute, i don't care how many penises she has
< 1292131707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1292131717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote (69)
< 1292131718 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :69)  if a girl is that cute, i don't care how many penises she has \ 169) (in #irp)  Flonk, ask on #esoteric?   Sgeo: yeah well its C++, so not that esoteric :P
< 1292131723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it almost works :D
< 1292131735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1292131753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1292131777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i 's/        sed "$1{p;q};d"/        sed "$1q;d"/' bin/quote
< 1292131779 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292131787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 69
< 1292131798 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :69)  if a girl is that cute, i don't care how many penises she has
< 1292131802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was quite slow
< 1292131803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well
< 1292131804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 69
< 1292131805 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :69)  if a girl is that cute, i don't care how many penises she has
< 1292131807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1292131809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote (69)
< 1292131811 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :69)  if a girl is that cute, i don't care how many penises she has \ 169) (in #irp)  Flonk, ask on #esoteric?   Sgeo: yeah well its C++, so not that esoteric :P
< 1292131816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: leet unix coder, at your service
< 1292131822 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl
< 1292131849 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1292131884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you have a tmi story relating to that quote?
< 1292131887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this i gotta hear
< 1292131914 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it involve the phrase "or more precisely, pre-op transexual"
< 1292131937 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's less of a story, and more of an incorrect belief I had as a kid
< 1292131940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hellooooooooo Sine!
< 1292131953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (I think Ami pumped oestrogen into #lobby.)
< 1292131967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Oh contravarsy)
< 1292131968 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Funny since Ami is a bot run by a male :P
< 1292131970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Am I a bad person yet?)
< 1292131975 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oyster gene
< 1292131979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: *by a male... FOR NOW
< 1292131983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, by a (male... FOR NOW)
< 1292131988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GET OUT WHILE YOU STILL CAN
< 1292132063 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My mom told me that girls were different from boys, and my creativity was very limited. I thought "almost exactly the same, except at the tip"
< 1292132088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... and ... uh, what was the difference at the tip ...
< 1292132140 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of a slit, I thought maybe a star, for example
< 1292132164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wow.
< 1292132191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Girl With The Starry Urethra.
< 1292132251 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sure-fire path to stardom
< 1292132279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What, can girls aim their penises better?
< 1292132282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOUR PUNS REQUIRE SCIENTIFIC BACKING
< 1292132306 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  oerjan: What, can girls aim their penises better?
< 1292132306 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :247)  oerjan: What, can girls aim their penises better?
< 1292132326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I should have added "starry" in there to complete the quote's perfection :P
< 1292132338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm having nightmarish images in my head now of a penis with a starry urethral opening.
< 1292132340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god it's terrifying.
< 1292132347 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need to add datestamps to the bot, so we can find out the context of quote
< 1292132348 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s
< 1292132375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's called a copy of the logs and grep.
< 1292132389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Or... just looking at the hg history on the HackEgo log.
< 1292132414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Anyway, are you sure you want people to be able to find what you said easily forever? :P
< 1292132450 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Actually I occasionally recreate HackEgo's hg repo, losing (from the perspective of the public viewer) all history.
< 1292132463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that's revisionism for you
< 1292132485 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know who else liked revisionism?  stalin!
< 1292132543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and hitler!
< 1292132558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and their baby, stalitler. unfortunately the world was not ready for gay couples to have babies and it was killed shortly after.
< 1292132559 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah, but then he wrote the Declaration of Independence, founded the USSR (United States Soviet Region) and began a reign of prosperity that lasts to this very day.
< 1292132561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: a true shame
< 1292132580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I approve of this history, the only history. And also the true history.
< 1292132825 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Soviet America, history alter you.
< 1292132863 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And negros are lynching you)
< 1292133129 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, suppose life moved at c/2 orthogonally
< 1292133144 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's call the direction of movement EAST
< 1292133160 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How will that affect what they can perceive, what experiments they can run?
< 1292133173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan, suppose life moved at c/2 orthogonally
< 1292133175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be very fast!
< 1292133179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find that completely unlikely.
< 1292133189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c/2s can't do much that isn't moving.
< 1292133236 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but if we were all in it together, it'd be just business as usual in our reference frame (although, significant blueshifting and redshifting of the night sky maybe?)
< 1292133237 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hasn't it been proved that ships cannot go faster than c/2
< 1292133250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: we're talking about game of life.
< 1292133251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes.
< 1292133276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: intelligent life moving at c/2 would have to compute *and* do half of moving in one generation, or something
< 1292133279 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i thought you were making a joke by remapping it to real life
< 1292133282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: c/100000000000000 is more likely :)
< 1292133334 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and in any case, i was doing that whether or not you were)
< 1292133334 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which came first? Proof of c/4 max speed diagonal, or of c/2 max speed orthogonal
< 1292133346 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'm missing some piece of this particular GoL conversation though
< 1292133346 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know one is easily proved from the other
< 1292133374 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, scientists living inside GoL
< 1292133392 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292133465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: basically sgeo is crazy
< 1292133471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :words to live by
< 1292133487 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no more crazy than you though.  just crazy in a different way.
< 1292133535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: an inferior way!
< 1292133571 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, they'd have to have spaceships travelling ahead of them at all times if they wanted to be able to detect one another to turn before colliding
< 1292133601 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they'd have to rebuild each other's spaceships when they passed one another to maintain them at that distance
< 1292133628 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if they didn't cooperate, they'd die really easily at that speed
< 1292133651 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i doubt they would trust each other any more than we would, and so wouldn't do so
< 1292133656 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore i'm gonna rule it out
< 1292133680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: the scientists are really just hypothetical here, it could just be scientist :P
< 1292133681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye.
< 1292133681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1292133756 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i suppose they could stop, build their own spaceship, let it get a little bit ahead, and then start chasing it
< 1292133761 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they evolve like that, there would possibly be pressures against breaking that sort of trust. Or it could be an automatic biological thing, like heartbeat in humans
< 1292133836 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: evolution would tend to make them smaller, and shave off unnecessary components.  aka, they'd devolve into viruses.  more than half of the population would be viruses because there could be more of them in the same amount of space
< 1292133863 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the "waiting a bit before starting moving" is a more evolutionarily stable strategy
< 1292133975 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahaha, i just imagined someone posting on the GoL database "the smallest pattern that never stabilizes" and then coming back later and retagging it "the smallest pattern that evolves into a community of intelligent lifeforms"
< 1292133992 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes i realize both are impossible)
< 1292134052 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i also realize that even if it were, the former, at least, couldn't be proven)
< 1292134069 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good luck proving the latter too
< 1292134098 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is the latter impossible, exactly?
< 1292134118 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...because the former is impossible?
< 1292134133 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define "stable"?
< 1292134140 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would not a community of interacting intelligences be unstable by definition?
< 1292134168 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't see why the former is impossible
< 1292134183 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is GoL stability usually define?
< 1292134189 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea
< 1292134201 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we know GoL is TC, so you definitely can do neverending processes
< 1292134241 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Conways_game_of_life_breeder_animation.gif stable?
< 1292134265 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wait...
< 1292134292 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lack of the first doesn't preclude the second
< 1292134301 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i withdraw my statement
< 1292134316 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i would call a breeder stable
< 1292134374 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there comes a point where the possibility of certain reactions (that may have taken place in the past) can never happen again <-- how i would define stabilizing
< 1292134485 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, if *our* universe is accelerating in its expansion, there will come a point where we can never observe light incoming from the boundaries of the universe again
< 1292134563 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A still-life that has only itself as a parent...
< 1292134568 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once you run out of those
< 1292134594 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I was thinking of that as a way for particularly smart and determined inhibitants to determine the age of the universe)
< 1292134622 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not counting those parents of it whose active cells other than it are at a distance such that they have no influence)
< 1292134804 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, with my definition of stabilizing above, it is trivially true that any finite pattern in an infinite universe must eventually stabilize
< 1292134839 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*empty universe
< 1292134841 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah
< 1292134868 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivially?
< 1292134882 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivially
< 1292134913 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1292134918 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, not exactly trivially
< 1292134926 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is one technical issue
< 1292134963 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i could prove it though
< 1292135000 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, define "reaction"
< 1292135007 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's a bit ambiguous
< 1292135014 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is obvious is that you'd need the "active area" to expand forever
< 1292135045 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order for a sequence of events never to repeat
< 1292135069 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok
< 1292135093 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that's blindingly obvious once mentioned but it didn't occur to me
< 1292135152 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i define reaction more intuitively than precisely
< 1292135175 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as two or more patterns interacting in a way that produces other patterns (or not)
< 1292135189 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here patterns would be cohesive distinct pieces
< 1292135193 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like spaceships
< 1292135223 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where all the parts are necessary for it to behave the way it does
< 1292135232 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, what the greeks meant by atom
< 1292135290 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a definition of pattern, what about: Works even when separated by all other active cells by 2 empty cells
< 1292135307 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"works" is weird
< 1292135368 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so imagine you had puffers travelling orthogonally in all four directions, releasing nothing but gliders alternately to either of the directions "behind" them
< 1292135385 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those gliders are timed to hit each other and annihilate
< 1292135407 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some sense, the same thing never happens in the same place twice
< 1292135439 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet, the places and times where particular reactions happen form a very simple predictable sequence
< 1292135452 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i would call it a stable system
< 1292135466 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can describe it by a small number of formulas and nothing surprising will ever happen
< 1292135470 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"predictable" isn't well defined
< 1292135488 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's ambiguous there?
< 1292135492 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of GoL is 100% predictable
< 1292135499 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1292135510 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b7d16.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292135510 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the "simple" part that's interesting here
< 1292135550 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 3-body gravitational problem is completely predictable for any 3 specified bodies, but it's far from simple for many of those arrangements
< 1292135566 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may show chaotic behavior
< 1292135590 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :completely determined...but hard to describe
< 1292135656 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in a stabilized universe, an observer could look around and say "these types of reactions are going to keep happening for eternity, and those are never going to happen again"
< 1292136265 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1292136417 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the more reason that an infinite random soup is a much better place to grow up
< 1292136442 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, even with eventual stabilization, life could thrive for a little while
< 1292136465 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even indefinitely, I guess. Just not.. creatively, if the brains don't expand
< 1292136936 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly
< 1292136970 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not creatively by definition
< 1292137002 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because on some scale something fundamentally new must happen
< 1292137102 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if someone were able to say "oh look, we can do this thing that's never been done!" that would contradict the definition of stabilized as the point after which nothing new happens.
< 1292137409 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's almost awesome that GoL universes die --- I am no longer _as_ jealous
< 1292137418 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our universe dies, their universe dies
< 1292137432 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except, ofc, infinite random soup)
< 1292137478 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe for GoLverse a definition of heat should be such that we can talk about heat death == stabilization
< 1292137495 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need sleep
< 1292137526 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you define as life in the GOL?
< 1292137586 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ... don't know. I do know that I like the thought of intelligent life in GoL
< 1292137696 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292137826 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292137900 0 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292137966 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gemini hardly seems like it deserves to qualify
< 1292138006 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gemini as in what? Sounds like an interesting conversation.
< 1292138059 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GoL
< 1292138066 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, thought so.
< 1292138071 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know logs exist, right?
< 1292138085 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I didn't know where.
< 1292138095 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!logs
< 1292138107 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, hoped maybe a bot would have a link.
< 1292138117 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where are they?
< 1292138118 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/topic
< 1292138123 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1292138134 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :這是通道有深奧的編程計算機語言。在這裡，我們用英語交談，如中文，請找其他渠道
< 1292138139 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's all I see of the topic
< 1292138147 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say /topic
< 1292138153 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my client, that's "symbol not displayable"
< 1292138165 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D ?
< 1292138184 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: what is gemini?
< 1292138185 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright. Dunno why that's easier than someone just answering me, but meh.
< 1292138199 0 :Sgeo|CGIIRC!18bf618a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.191.97.138 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292138210 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TLUL, so you know how to get it for next time
< 1292138228 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, /topic doesn't work in CGIIRC
< 1292138246 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, replicator
< 1292138252 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: It's a UCC-based spaceship.
< 1292138270 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link?
< 1292138273 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a replicator, as it cannibalises its parent configuration
< 1292138288 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=399&p=2327#p2327
< 1292138304 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can it be made to not do that?
< 1292138309 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i wasn't aware of a GoL replicator existing yet...
< 1292138329 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be, yes.
< 1292138371 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has three-armed constructors at each end. Two arms are for construction, one is for destruction of the parent.
< 1292138387 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder when the first true replicator will be constructed...
< 1292138420 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tape is a glider stream, duplicated and reflected back at each end, offset enough to enter the child created last time it passed through.
< 1292138551 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many diffrent variants of Gemini there are? Last I looked a while ago there were at least 3 (the original, true knightship variant and slope 5 ship with different speed)...
< 1292138564 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, if you took out the deconstruction arm, it would be a replicator?
< 1292138578 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i agree with the thread then... awesome pattern
< 1292138617 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it was the first spaceship with slope not 0 or 1.
< 1292138758 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night
< 1292138775 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292138776 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see
< 1292138783 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tape doesn't get duplicated
< 1292138790 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would require some more modification
< 1292138835 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder if there is pattern that is bounded in width, length goes to infinity and lengthwise minimum coordinate also goes to infinity, which is not a forward-shooting rake?
< 1292138838 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292138914 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would be pretty wild patterns: Gun shooting caterpillars and rake that shoots caterpillars... :-)
< 1292139058 0 :Sgeo|CGIIRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1292139060 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For constructing those, four-slavo glider synthethis of The Caterpillar would be very useful.
< 1292139653 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1292139711 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gaaah, today.
< 1292139711 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you're describing sounds like one of the fuse-ships (being chased by something that burns the fuse slower)
< 1292139715 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just had dinner.
< 1292139721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is 00:41 local time.
< 1292139737 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mountain time eh
< 1292139745 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :albuquerque? :P
< 1292139758 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, suburb of Colorado Springs.
< 1292139768 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :close enough
< 1292139775 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not very far from the UTC-7 meridian.
< 1292139792 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1292140315 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: All that said, I now have parts of Albuquerque stuck in my head.
< 1292140358 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: if you can wake up some neighbors by singing it at the top of your lungs, please do so
< 1292140470 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I'm afraid I cannot without going outside.
< 1292140476 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it is FUCKING COLD OUTSIDE HOLY FUCK.
< 1292140490 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :swut you get for being in CO
< 1292140503 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE I HAD MY TRAY TABLE UP
< 1292140558 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to weather.gov, the current temperature at the nearest reporting station (the Air Force Academy, a few miles away) is 15°F (-9°C).
< 1292140572 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... Very, very bizarrely humid.
< 1292140579 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... 68% humidity? What the hell?
< 1292140591 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The usual humidity here is more like 0.
< 1292140605 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329a97.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292140799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1292140800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292141519 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Oh, /topic doesn't work in CGIIRC
< 1292141520 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1292141540 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not using CGI:IRC
< 1292143013 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1292143294 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292143366 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@j-247.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292143631 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292144380 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if the temperature is low, even slight amount of water gives high RH.
< 1292144506 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same amount of water that gives 70% RH at -10degC would give only about 6.3% RH at 25degC.
< 1292144945 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-4-65.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292145424 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:wrong version number
< 1292145529 0 :Ilari_!~user@2002:5870:32ae::1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292145537 0 :Ilari_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Ilari_antrcomp
< 1292146522 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292146649 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: *disappears in a puff of orange smoke*
< 1292149903 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As one of those freaky Northerners, I'm conractually obliged to note that -9°C is pretty far from "fucking cold outside holy fuck".
< 1292150008 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With that amount of expletives, it should be at least -30°C, and even that is pushing it; it's not such a unheard-of temperature.
< 1292150720 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292151541 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed, -9°C is more like "uncomfortably cold, but sadly quite common"
< 1292152390 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-4-65.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292154563 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw I found a lone block of obsidian out in the middle of nowhere yesterday
< 1292154578 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there is a torch trail to it from the crafting bench near the water pillars
< 1292154611 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no water or lava near it
< 1292154711 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I had anything to do with that.
< 1292156130 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, down?
< 1292156135 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1292156379 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, know anything about the floating *wood* block above a very flat mountain top opposite of nailor's old house?
< 1292156386 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it is next to your house
< 1292156830 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292158752 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@i-73.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292158848 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lyttle Lytton idea: "There are no words in the English language to describe what I have seen, which is why the remainder of this book is in Finnish."
< 1292159024 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO anything below -20°C is enough for "fucking cold holy fuck"
< 1292160555 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329a97.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292160719 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1292163063 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, indeed
< 1292163081 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, wait, I thought you said 25
< 1292163091 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 is "fucking horrible cold"
< 1292163188 0 :nopseudoidea!~nopseudoi@85-168-235-235.rev.numericable.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292163917 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1292164568 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1292164860 0 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-3-133.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292167393 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292167564 0 :nopseudoidea!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quitte
< 1292167754 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie, btw I found a lone block of obsidian out in the middle of nowhere yesterday
< 1292167764 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly a relic of the previous ice age
< 1292168715 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925108588.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292169195 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292169262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:03:56  Sgeo: evolution would tend to make them smaller, and shave off unnecessary components.  aka, they'd devolve into viruses.  more than half of the population would be viruses because there could be more of them in the same amount of space
< 1292169270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: that's only true iff it's true in this world too
< 1292169333 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, FWIW, I have previously pointed out that existing examples of CA evolution march inexorably towards miniaturisation.
< 1292169362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: sure, that's what'll happen if you aren't a bastard and don't make them scavenge.
< 1292169370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: and don't tile the plane with evil things they have to avoid.
< 1292169397 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, remember the tribulations in trying to invent an interesting conservative CA?
< 1292169419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yep. but you can do it inside life, really
< 1292169435 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hmm. How?
< 1292169436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you just have to get an initial lifeform that has some kind of decaying thing that needs feeding :P
< 1292169440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also tile the plane with obstacles
< 1292169448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such that even small, dumb things will bump into something eventually
< 1292169453 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally: "There are no words in the English language to describe what I have seen, which is why the remainder of this book is in Finnish." Comment in the context of a Lyttle Lytton entry.
< 1292169468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Perfect.
< 1292169473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Although not really.
< 1292169493 0 :p_q!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-1176439313.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292169493 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could work comedically?
< 1292169494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's merely funny, and as Adam loves to point out, it would be a perfectly good start to a comedic book.
< 1292169504 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1292169506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But it's not actually badly written, just very silly. :p
< 1292169513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en fi There are no words in the English language to describe what I have seen, which is why the remainder of this book is in Finnish.
< 1292169531 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ei ole sanoja Englanti kielellä kertoa, mitä olen nähnyt, minkä vuoksi jäljellä tämä kirja suomeksi.
< 1292169548 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "badly-written" isn't necessary; just that you would think "oh, GOD" if someone made you read a book that opened with it.
< 1292169567 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1292169795 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As there are no words in the English language to describe what I have seen, I shall lay out the ones I have created for the purpose in brief."? It's pushing the word limit, and it's a bit clunky.
< 1292169853 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it has that groanworthy quality of a pretentious SF or fantasy novel.
< 1292169873 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hits Phantom_Hoover with a lump of scrith

< 1292169928 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OW!
< 1292169945 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My NEUTRINOS!]
< 1292169948 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/]//
< 1292170001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "There are no words in the English language to describe what I have seen. Therefore, allow me to tell you about my constructed language."
< 1292170017 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 2 sentences.
< 1292170028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: 2 sentences appear several times in old competitions.
< 1292170038 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hits elliott with a loaf of lembas

< 1292170057 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hmm.
< 1292170090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Okay, I can't actually find two-sentence ones.
< 1292170108 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, [[You need not limit an entry to one sentence, and you can even enter more than once. ]]
< 1292170120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "As there are no words in the English language to describe what I have seen, the rest of this book is in Klingon."
< 1292170139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You saw very violent things.)
< 1292170144 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's actually /funny/, though; Klingon makes things funny.
< 1292170189 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION poors some 'Iw HIq over elliott's head

< 1292170226 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pours
< 1292170235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, well.
< 1292170253 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT IS HAPPENING TO MY SPELING
< 1292170263 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW: APNIC cumulative delegations this year: http://imagebin.ca/view/R7vXhV.html
< 1292170271 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lembas overdose
< 1292170280 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the constructed lang/words ones are probably the most convincingly awful.
< 1292170303 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what competition is this?
< 1292170317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The Lyttle Lytton, the world's premier bad book-opening authoring contest.
< 1292170322 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah
< 1292170335 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does it have to be on that form?
< 1292170353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (Unlike the rabble of talentless hacks calling themselves the Bulwer-Lytton contest, who only manage to spew out some billions of words and call that a bad opening, Lyttle Lytton entries must be short. And terrible>0
< 1292170355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*terrible.)
< 1292170359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, I'm just trying to aid Phantom_Hoover.
< 1292170430 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, the tricky bit is making it amusingly awful but not making it satirical.
< 1292170436 0 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292170461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: There are no words for what I have just seen. So I made some up, and here they are:
< 1292170461 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quassel is a bit ugly, and you MUST resize stuff
< 1292170466 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it doesn't seem terrible
< 1292170482 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that. That is good.
< 1292170491 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, sudo apt-get uninstall ubuntu-desktop did not have the effect I was expectinng
< 1292170510 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor did sudo apt-get autoremove afterwards
< 1292170705 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they delegated 6.76x/8 just this year... And the total amount of space remaining to them is about 5.73(3.19[present]+2.00[newblocks]+1.54[various]-1.00[setaside])x/8s.
< 1292170760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "Ah, poetic Paris: with its pâtés and beaujolais, tiramisu and au jus."
< 1292170764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love these winners.
< 1292170797 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Emperor Wu liked cake, but not exploding cake!"
< 1292170802 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cracks me up every time.
< 1292170934 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ei ole sanoja Englanti kielellä kertoa, mitä olen nähnyt, minkä vuoksi jäljellä tämä kirja suomeksi" -> "There are no words language English to tell, which is why there is left this book in Finnish", if I try to approximate the ungrammaticalness in it.
< 1292170978 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, I skipped the whole has-seen part.
< 1292170983 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one is reasonably correct, though.
< 1292170992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Scaling Everest was, by far, the most amazing and transformative experience of my life. Unfortunately, this is a thesis on context-free grammars.
< 1292170996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I swear augur wrote that one.
< 1292171011 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did i write? :o
< 1292171016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: "Scaling Everest was, by far, the most amazing and transformative experience of my life. Unfortunately, this is a thesis on context-free grammars."
< 1292171028 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha
< 1292171032 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i had written that. :D
< 1292171040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur would never write a thesis on something that simple
< 1292171048 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: depends on what the question is
< 1292171071 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pika ... chu, thought Pikachu. "
< 1292171077 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is unknown yet
< 1292171080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fukutsuru died in 2005 but his frozen sperm lived on for people’s benefit.
< 1292171083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't really beat that
< 1292171088 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that one clearly was by pikhq
< 1292171099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pik... hq, thought pikhq.
< 1292171100 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My... my god
< 1292171106 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My mind is blown.
< 1292171109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That Fukutsuru line was from WIKIPEDIA.
< 1292171117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's *still there*.
< 1292171117 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I know!
< 1292171128 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have read through all of these twice!
< 1292171181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: SO HAVE I
< 1292171286 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'"Caramba!" exclaimed Diego de Fonseca, "a cucaracha has fallen onto the tortillas of my wife!"'
< 1292171306 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modulo italics.
< 1292171442 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so "There are no words for what I have just seen, so I made some up, and here they are:"
< 1292171448 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Final version?
< 1292171466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hmm... Not sure.
< 1292171474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Gimme an hour or two to see if anything better pops into my head :P
< 1292172096 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292172096 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292172096 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292172096 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
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< 1292172097 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292172097 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
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< 1292172101 0 :yiyus_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292172101 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
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< 1292172228 0 :p_q!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-1176439313.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-3-133.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329a97.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-4-65.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!~user@2002:5870:32ae::1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-239-57.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-2-154.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@75-174-221-22.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050026.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :nooga!nooga@156.17.4.19 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :Zuu_!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@209.59.220.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :tswett!~Warrigal@arch06.cis.gvsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:32ae:1:4261:86ff:fe96:fca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :aloril!~aloril@84.249.126.153 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :iamcal!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :Leonidas!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :jix!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :yiyus_!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :mycroftiv!~ircguy@h69-128-47-242.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :fxkr!~fxkr@unaffiliated/fxkr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.251.165.38 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :yiyus!~124271242@67.202.106.57 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172228 0 :nopseudoidea!~nopseudoi@85-168-235-235.rev.numericable.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172363 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err, Yudkowsky wrote fanfic!?
< 1292172385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Does-write; it doesn't show any signs of stopping and I'm quite some chapters behind. It is hilarious.
< 1292172394 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is it bad or good?
< 1292172396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5782108/1/Harry_Potter_and_the_Methods_of_Rationality
< 1292172403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It is very, very good. And hilarious.
< 1292172415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, okay, it's not all yuks, but it is partly yuks.)
< 1292172428 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does it take things seriously, or does it make fun of the thing? Considering the title...
< 1292172445 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292172445 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
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< 1292172477 0 :nopseudoidea!~nopseudoi@85-168-235-235.rev.numericable.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :p_q!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-1176439313.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-3-133.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329a97.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-4-65.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!~user@2002:5870:32ae::1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-239-57.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-2-154.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@75-174-221-22.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050026.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :nooga!nooga@156.17.4.19 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :Zuu_!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@209.59.220.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :tswett!~Warrigal@arch06.cis.gvsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:32ae:1:4261:86ff:fe96:fca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :aloril!~aloril@84.249.126.153 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1292172477 0 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :Leonidas!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :jix!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1292172477 0 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1292172477 0 :yiyus!~124271242@67.202.106.57 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172477 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172485 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1292172510 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food
< 1292172637 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292172832 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, incidentally, when does the 2011 competition close?
< 1292172845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Um, 2011, one would assume.
< 1292172861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I will accept entries up to but not after 2011 April 15 at noon, Pacific Time."
< 1292172970 0 :nopseudoidea!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quitte
< 1292173068 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1292173255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh jesus christ, now reddit are masturbating over the fact that http://surfraw.alioth.debian.org/ was written by Julian Assange.
< 1292173281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU GUYS, WE LIKE JULIAN ASSANGE, AND GET THIS: BEFORE HE BECAME THE SELF-APPOINTED "PERSON WHO DOES VERY LITTLE EXCEPT BE A LIGHTNING ROD FOR WIKILEAKS", HE *WROTE SOME PROGRAMS OH MY FUCKING GOD*
< 1292173412 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was this pre- or post-ridiculous hair?
< 1292173477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His ridiculous hair is CONSTANT.
< 1292173698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone going on Minecraft?
< 1292173772 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not on.
< 1292173788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but going-on.
< 1292173872 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know.
< 1292174068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, fizzie's bunker has pretty.
< 1292174224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"After a lot of writing in Q10 on Windows, I got used to the typewriter sound it makes every time you press a key. At least for me it feels great to have this sort of sound feedback.
< 1292174225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Linux on the other hand, I love writing it VIM, because of it's editing features. How could I add this functionality to VIM?
< 1292174225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simply said, I want to play a sound every time I press a key in the insert mode."
< 1292174228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't make this shit up.
< 1292174278 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, who said that
< 1292174286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4418364/how-can-i-make-vim-play-typewriter-sound-when-i-write-a-letter/4418605#4418605
< 1292174288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1292174290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4418364/how-can-i-make-vim-play-typewriter-sound-when-i-write-a-letter/
< 1292174314 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, presumably you could patch it to do that.. I mean, it shouldn't be too hard at all really
< 1292174325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It was solved in Vimscript, but that's not the point.
< 1292174327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point is WHY GOD WHY.
< 1292174333 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292174334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Is why I love vim, because "crazy" and dare all other "freaks" are always ready to give them the answer, and "Vim" in turn serves as a backdrop to all this by having these endless possibilities. – user107745 6 hours ago]] <----- what
< 1292174338 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why god why indeed
< 1292174354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Perhaps what you really want is an IBM Model M keyboard." "After buying $200 keyboard? Nothx :) – Darth 21 hours ago"
< 1292174363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I bet it was a Logitech expensive-mush keyboard.
< 1292174366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Money well wasted!
< 1292174421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Redis without a Linux kernel - How to run Redis natively on Xen"
< 1292174425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Xen the new OS? :)
< 1292174494 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, xen actually runs below the dom0 in some senses
< 1292174517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Indeed.
< 1292174525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I've just heard "Foo on Xen" quite a bit lately.
< 1292174536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Am I right in thinking that Xen's dom0 architecture is totally insane?
< 1292174548 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't know the details
< 1292174562 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but it seems probable
< 1292175318 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292175338 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292175680 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292176412 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1292176492 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1292176823 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It is completely insane.
< 1292176858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: CubeHash isn't an SHA-3 finalist :(
< 1292176923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Meanwhile: Fragments from "WikiLeaks! The Musical.": http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2010/12/2greenman.html
< 1292176940 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, on what grounds?
< 1292176952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They don't state their reasons individualy.
< 1292176964 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, but presumably technical reasons?
< 1292176977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well ...
< 1292176983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The selection was challenging, because we had a strong field of fourteen hash algorithms remaining in the SHA-3 competition that were very strong contenders for the hash function standard. Security was our greatest concern, and we took this very seriously, but none of these candidates was clearly broken.  However, it is meaningless to discuss the security of a hash function without relating security to performance, so in reality, NIST wan
< 1292176983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ted highly secure algorithms that also performed well. We preferred to be conservative about security, and in some cases did not select algorithms with exceptional performance, largely because something about them made us “nervous,” even though we knew of no clear attack against the full algorithm.
< 1292176999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: tl;dr CubeHash isn't in because it isn't.
< 1292177022 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, was cubehash fast?
< 1292177030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It was parameterisable. But yes, it was fast.
< 1292177061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The SHA-3 contender was CubeHash 16/32, which is as fast as SHA-256 and SHA-512, sez djb.
< 1292177085 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mhm.
< 1292177091 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl
< 1292177100 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329cc9.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292177470 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292177642 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "Something about them made us 'nervous'"?
< 1292177650 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Damned stupid selection criterion.
< 1292177661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: They're just afraid of djb's BLACK STARE.
< 1292177763 0 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-140-166.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292178107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hi
< 1292178532 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292178533 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello!
< 1292178614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear
< 1292178863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On an i386 system with x86-64 kernel" What.
< 1292179282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: MAME is non-DFSG. Lame.
< 1292179287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You should rewrite it.
< 1292179536 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'sup?
< 1292179605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: supness.
< 1292179728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ping
< 1292179738 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any furtherances on the Lyttle Lytton front?
< 1292179806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Not really.
< 1292179810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: [[Also in 2007, the Open Group reached a binding legal agreement to prevent the German University of Kassel from using "UNIK" as its short form name.]]
< 1292179842 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There are no words for what I have just seen, so here are the ones I made up:"
< 1292179862 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good enough?
< 1292179869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No...
< 1292179873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That one's not good.
< 1292179911 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1292179951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Dunno.
< 1292179983 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There are no words for what I have just seen, so I made some up."?
< 1292180007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[In 2004 a bootleg version of MAME was created, called '39-in-1' which ran on an Intel XScale processor. As of version 0.133u1, MAME also emulates this 'game', thus in essence, emulates itself.]]
< 1292180040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "There are no words for what I have just seen, so I made some up, and here they are:" is the last one you and I said.
< 1292180044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still mulling it over though.
< 1292180079 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Ordinarily, I'd go for compactness, but bumbling prose is good here.
< 1292180164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Let's make an end-of-book sentence! Dunno if that competition's being run this year, but let's do it anyway.
< 1292180175 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is.
< 1292180201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: First thought: "And that was when I finally conceded that, yes, orang-utans probably *do* exist. Probably."
< 1292180208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: First thought: "And that was when I finally conceded that, yes, orang-utans *do* exist. Probably."
< 1292180210 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make: *** No rule to make target `1.2.mkv', needed by `all'.  Stop.
< 1292180215 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Follow-up to that opening sentence, laced with poorly-made up words?
< 1292180218 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a rule for %.mkv.
< 1292180229 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure that matches 1.2.mkv.
< 1292180233 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the hell, Make?
< 1292180240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Show your Makefile; I've fixed problems like that before.
< 1292180256 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/DJSX
< 1292180279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And that's when her furli'net finally absorbed my guarætïr, in a most hunji manner. At last, I was a virgin no more.
< 1292180294 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh.
< 1292180310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So, uh, do 1.2.mp4 1.2.ac3 1.2.... all exist?
< 1292180314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Because if not, it won't count as an implicit rule.
< 1292180333 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would actually work with the opening, and reinforce the implication that this book was eyelash-wrenchingly awful.
< 1292180335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Wait, %.title shouldn't be there.
< 1292180340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (Imagine having a rule "%.o: %.s" and doing "make foo.o" when you have foo.c; you don't want it to try and make foo.s, you want it to say "Sorry, you don't have a rule to do that!")
< 1292180368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also...
< 1292180378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ${<:%.mp4=%.ac3} is the same as $*.ac3
< 1292180383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stems, man.
< 1292180386 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, dur.
< 1292180404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also, make it a mkfile! Everyone loves mkfiles!
< 1292180450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "2>&/dev/null" What.
< 1292180455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That & is... no.
< 1292180482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%.ac3: %.title
< 1292180482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	tccat -i ${DVDPATH} -T ${TITLE},-1 | tcextract -x ac3 -t vob -a 0 > %@
< 1292180486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: excuz me wat is %@
< 1292180492 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A typo.
< 1292180504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%.sid1.idx: %.title
< 1292180504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	tccat -i ${DVDPATH} -T ${TITLE},-1 | tcextract -x ps1 -t vob -a 33 | subtitle2vobsub -o ${<:%.idx=%} -i ${DVDPATH}/VIDEO_TS/VTS_`printf '%.2i\n' ${TITLE}`_0.IFO
< 1292180504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%.sid1.sub: %.sid1.idx
< 1292180513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Does the %.sid1.idx rule create %.sid1.sub too?
< 1292180517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1292180521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: YOU FAIL AT MAKE
< 1292180526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%.sid1.idx %.sid1.sub: %.title
< 1292180527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	tccat -i ${DVDPATH} -T ${TITLE},-1 | tcextract -x ps1 -t vob -a 33 | subtitle2vobsub -o ${<:%.idx=%} -i ${DVDPATH}/VIDEO_TS/VTS_`printf '%.2i\n' ${TITLE}`_0.IFO
< 1292180530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Fixed that for you.
< 1292180536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And remove the dependency-only rule.)
< 1292180563 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That does *not* actually work the way you think it does.
< 1292180571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It doesn't? I've done it before and I swear it does.
< 1292180581 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Make will call that rule to make %.sid1.idx, and then to make %.sid1.sub.
< 1292180594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well that's stupid.
< 1292180598 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes it is.
< 1292180609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: As well as using $*, I'd also unify the sid0 and sid1 rules, and just use "foo: VOB_A_PARAM=32 or 33". (With a better name.)
< 1292180622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I'm not sure why you're saying ${FOO}; $(FOO) is more conventional.
< 1292180642 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1292180651 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, uh.
< 1292180703 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1292180863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Rewrite it in mk/rc!
< 1292180996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, to figure out why it's still not making 1.2.mkv.
< 1292181025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Rewrite it in mk/rc!
< 1292181034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Or just use make -v.
< 1292181076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-v is version info.
< 1292181084 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make -d is more helpful.
< 1292181093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah well your mother.
< 1292181095 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me, or does WikiLeaks not actually have any leaked stuff on its site?
< 1292181096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: MK/RC
< 1292181108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://213.251.145.96/
< 1292181113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: See the links with dates below them.
< 1292181127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://213.251.145.96/cablegate.html, http://213.251.145.96/file/wikileaks_archive.7z, http://213.251.145.96/iraq/diarydig/, http://213.251.145.96/iraq/diarydig/, http://www.collateralmurder.com/
< 1292181158 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahh.
< 1292181165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a very good link colour, admittedly.
< 1292181289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would appear to be *fucking retarded*.
< 1292181311 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hmm, I have an implicit rule without prereqs that gets me a prereq for my target. Well, fuck that."
< 1292181320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: mk!
< 1292181321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: mk and rc!
< 1292181326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: plan 9 port!
< 1292181359 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I get the strong feeling that Make hates rules without prereqs.
< 1292181422 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231049071.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292181426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: mk!
< 1292181440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I've used it before! It's great!
< 1292181443 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck it. Everything gets a prereq on $(DVDPATH).
< 1292181454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: mk!
< 1292181455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I've used it before! It's great!
< 1292181455 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it even makes sense!)
< 1292181463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: WHY DO YOU IGNORE ME
< 1292181604 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does mk handle implicit rules without prereqs?
< 1292181611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Pretty sure, yes.
< 1292181617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It Just Works.
< 1292181626 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GAAAH WHY WON'T MAKE PROCESS THIS NOW.
< 1292181638 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT SEEMS TO FAIL AT PREREQS.
< 1292181640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also you say $stem instead of $* and you can say $foo instead of $(foo) and also the whole body of rules is executed as one thing, so "cd" works.
< 1292181644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES, /dev/null EXISTS.
< 1292181647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And also you can quiet an entire rule by using attributes.
< 1292181663 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT REALLY, REALLY, REALLY FUCKING EXISTS.
< 1292181719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also mk has awesome shit:
< 1292181720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: P     The characters after the P until the terminating : are taken as a program name. It will be invoked as rc –c prog 'arg1' 'arg2' and should return a null exit status if and only if arg1 is up to date with respect to arg2. Date stamps are still propagated in the normal way.
< 1292181728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: R     The rule is a meta–rule using regular expressions. In the rule, % has no special meaning. The target is interpreted as a regular expression as defined in regexp(6). The prerequisites may contain references to subexpressions in form \n, as in the substitute command of sam(1).
< 1292181735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U     The targets are considered to have been updated even if the recipe did not do so.
< 1292181751 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH FUCK THIS.
< 1292181763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: plan 9 port! mk!
< 1292181767 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/BjPa
< 1292181780 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is what I've got right now, with 1.{1..7}.fuck touched.
< 1292181781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://swtch.com/plan9port/man/man1/mk.html Unix man page for mk.
< 1292181796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: All you have to do is "MKSHELL=$PLAN9/bin/rc" and it is wonderful!
< 1292181799 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT HATES ME SO.
< 1292181805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Andrew Hume wrote mk for Tenth Edition Research Unix. It was later ported to Plan 9. This software is a port of the Plan 9 version back to Unix."
< 1292181818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: WHY ARE YOU SO TIED TO YOUR EVIL BUILD TOOL
< 1292181847 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Honestly, I just want to know *why* this doesn't work. And then I will probably switch it over to mk.
< 1292181858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I've debugged similar problems before, but I forgot how to fix them.
< 1292181876 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAKE, YOU SIMPLETON, 1.2.fuck EXISTS.
< 1292181883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not that.
< 1292181888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's something else it doesn't like.
< 1292181927 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's somehow not finding an implict rule for 1.2.mkv.
< 1292181927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Right now, I've half-convinced myself that the best build system is a "memoise" command that runs the command given in its arguments if and only if its dependencies have changed, where the dependencies are determined by tracing the program the first time. (This actually exists, it's called memoize.py. But I think it needs tweaking to be truly perfect.)
< 1292181958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Then just a bunch of canned commands like "CC() { echo CC "$@"; $CC $CFLAGS $LDFLAGS "$@" }"
< 1292181976 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, it disliked my %.sid0.sub rule.
< 1292182079 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "There are no words for what I have just seen, so here are the ones I made up:" <-- there *were* no words in that case
< 1292182117 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1292182213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's intentional.
< 1292182296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://web.archive.org/web/20070612145920/http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~billm/memoize.html
< 1292182337 0 :nopseudoidea!~nopseudoi@85-168-235-235.rev.numericable.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292182491 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys! using the powershell?..question: is there a way to br0wse thr0ugh the namespaces of the attached .net assemblies? i'd like to see which classes, enums exist in specific namespace.. i use get-member  or get-childitem on objects, but it doesn't seem to work with namespaces^^ help please..
< 1292182500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: (1) nobody here uses windows
< 1292182508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: (2) "br0wse thr0ugh"? what are you, 14?
< 1292182534 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx elliott^^
< 1292182539 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... ?
< 1292182547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glad to help!
< 1292182550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "... ?"?
< 1292182616 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, at the very thing you just responded to
< 1292182624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: powershell is this thing for windows.
< 1292182632 0 :nopseudoidea!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1292182634 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, utter astonishment at his answer to your reply to him
< 1292182644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he was being slightly sarcastic.
< 1292182645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever so.
< 1292182654 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /sb end
< 1292182658 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, s/ever/even/?
< 1292182660 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a very useful command.
< 1292182661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.
< 1292182665 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292182679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: powershell is actually kinda cool; it's like sh but object-oriented (admittedly it's .NET), so rich objects pass between the | pipes and get formatted automatically or customly depending on where you feed them. but, uh, it's still .NET.
< 1292182739 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah, it's .NET, also it is bloated. Every time you like it, a bunny named glenda becomes sad. Or something.
< 1292182752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: insert middle finger
< 1292182764 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that sounds rude to the bunny
< 1292182774 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the general model is actually pretty cool
< 1292182779 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, yeah, .net
< 1292182799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is stat64 just what's called instead of stat on x86-64 kernels?
< 1292182823 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm, isn't stat64 for large file support on 32-bit?
< 1292182851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, maybe
< 1292182859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just -
< 1292182860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    os.system('strace -f -o %s -e trace=open,stat64,exit_group %s' % (outfile, cmd))
< 1292182864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder why stat's not there
< 1292182881 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which is kind of on all the time on 64-bit. So presumably it only needs one system call. No idea what it might be named though
< 1292182891 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, where is that from?
< 1292182922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: memoize.py
< 1292182927 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292182942 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, very strange then
< 1292182992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, tracing for stat seems to pick up lstat too
< 1292182992 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in fact, shouldn't it trace all the stat variants
< 1292182993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with strace
< 1292182998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how odd
< 1292183004 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heh
< 1292183032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that?
< 1292183040 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't know.
< 1292183118 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does it track deps properly too?
< 1292183137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what, memoize?
< 1292183137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1292183141 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice
< 1292183142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why it uses strace
< 1292183146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to find out what files the program uses :)
< 1292183150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :program=compiler
< 1292183187 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can it do conditional compilation. Sometimes having something like --enable-large-optional-feature-that-depends-on-uncommon-stuff is useful.  (with a shorter name preferably!)
< 1292183203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal:
< 1292183205 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't need to be fancy, just that really
< 1292183209 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott droog .. im 29! i mentioned and am really sorry about my poor english.. it's a pity, because i really like this chan and conversations here are kind of inspiring.. but with my couple of words i really feel a little like a stupid child in here.. i try to do sth about it.. sry
< 1292183210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if [ "$poop" = 1 ]; then
< 1292183213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  memoize.py foo bar baz
< 1292183213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi
< 1292183221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: it's ok, i'm just an asshole
< 1292183225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore me
< 1292183232 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm interesting (that code)
< 1292183237 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*g
< 1292183269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: of course you'd probably prefer to use a nicer shell... say rc
< 1292183273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: if($poop) memoize.py foo bar baz
< 1292183276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where $poop is true or false)
< 1292183291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: of course you'd want scaffolding around all this to make it more automatic
< 1292183291 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also if I'm a developer I would probably prefer to write some code to make it remember between build runs
< 1292183296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and memoize itself isn't maintained
< 1292183297 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe just a wrapper script
< 1292183298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but,s till
< 1292183300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*but, still
< 1292183316 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if memoize still works, I don't really see any issue
< 1292183320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: um it does remember
< 1292183322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it saves it to a file
< 1292183340 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so you don't invoke the same script the next time you build? but another one?
< 1292183344 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense
< 1292183350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what?
< 1292183362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, memoize.py just looks to see if the dependencies file is there and goes, "oh look, it is" and uses it.
< 1292183374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also use it from python
< 1292183396 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, lets say I have conditional compilation for optional feature. Do I run ./build.py  every time?
< 1292183419 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can I make it just do ./build.py after that basically
< 1292183423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Um, ./configure --additional-pylons --butt-tastic would presumably create config.sh.
< 1292183432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then ./build would do ". config.sh" or the like.
< 1292183446 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292183447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Substitute equivalent things for Python, and also s/sh/yaml/ or s/sh/xml/ or whatever the hell you want to store configuration in.)
< 1292183462 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, any parallel support?
< 1292183474 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :equiv of -j2 or such I mean
< 1292183499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Um, it's just a function call. In non-Python usage, it's just a process called once for each command. Anyway the script is tiny, read it yourself ffs: http://web.archive.org/web/20070622221648/www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~billm/memoize.py
< 1292183506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is no, but I'm not telling anyone to use memoize.py.
< 1292183511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying it's a better design than mk.
< 1292183522 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so -j is basically the only thing missing to make it perfect
< 1292183530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, more is missing.
< 1292183535 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, such as?
< 1292183537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you'd have to write ./configure manually and the like.
< 1292183541 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay
< 1292183557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: A way to use it more efficiently without having to write your script in Python? Some "memoize" function that talks to a pipe it has, rather than making a bunch of processes.
< 1292183563 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, idea: autoconf - automake + memoize = what?
< 1292183577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Um, = autoconf is still terrible.
< 1292183582 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm true
< 1292183595 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also probably a pain to get that working
< 1292183600 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with memoize I mean)
< 1292183613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ptraces his utensils.

< 1292183615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hee, so few syscalls.
< 1292183629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ strace bin/uname >/dev/null
< 1292183629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :execve("bin/uname", ["bin/uname"], [/* 35 vars */]) = 0
< 1292183629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arch_prctl(ARCH_SET_FS, 0x7fffc7abfc50) = 0
< 1292183629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uname({sys="Linux", node="dinky", ...}) = 0
< 1292183629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write(1, "Linux", 5)                    = 5
< 1292183630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write(1, "\n", 1)                       = 1
< 1292183632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_exit(0)                                = ?
< 1292183646 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, still, -j is actually very nice when building something large. Not sure how you can make that work for first build easily
< 1292183652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: autoconf is perfectly capable of memoizing too; it doesn't by default because people kept transferring the cache files between computers
< 1292183655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, -j is nice.
< 1292183677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: context fail
< 1292183693 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, memoize could easily -j for builds where it already know the deps, but for initial build I don't see how it could possibly do that
< 1292183694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd expect ignoring the context and replying while ignoring pertinent details like ".py" from Vorpal, not you ...
< 1292183696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The first build it ... might ... work. The problem is of course that the dependency information is implicit in the ordering until it's calculated.
< 1292183697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah
< 1292183704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but, OTOH...
< 1292183713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: if your linking phase fails because some object files aren't there, the script could take that into account
< 1292183715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and try again
< 1292183721 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which kind of defeats the point of -j for anyone but a developer
< 1292183734 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well sure, but what is linking in general
< 1292183746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, it's irrelevant... cc tries to open all these object files
< 1292183747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some don't exist
< 1292183749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it fails
< 1292183755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the script goes "ah! I'll try again when those files come into existence"
< 1292183793 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about building a tool used to build other files? Example: ick builds oil which is used to generate another c file which will be compiled later
< 1292183821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh, shut up :P
< 1292183834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you know what the perfect build system is?
< 1292183842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc --make src/Main.hs -o foo
< 1292183859 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes indeed. You can make very good language-specific build systems
< 1292183872 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, erlang has a good one too for example. But well, they are language specific.
< 1292183884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: good! who wants to use another crappy language anyway
< 1292183940 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm.
< 1292183951 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it does become a problem for a mixed language project
< 1292183962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *a crappy project!
< 1292183973 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, like... ghc itself?
< 1292183976 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, is just being jingoistically Swedish.
< 1292183981 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :P
< 1292184055 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm 99% certain that parts of ghc runtime stuff, such as GC, isn't written in haskell.)
< 1292184337 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292184435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you know scapegoat?
< 1292184642 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the tree structure?
< 1292184649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what?
< 1292184656 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, scapegoat tree
< 1292184660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a data structure
< 1292184666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i don't mean that.
< 1292184670 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah
< 1292184681 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I asked because it was unclear to me what you meant
< 1292184755 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292184779 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292184832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(message (buffer-string)) <-- anyone who can make that elisp not a horrible hack gets points
< 1292184837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(must go to stdout when using emacs --batch)
< 1292184843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't care what it does when X is there)
< 1292184854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or, anything but --batch really)
< 1292184896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay so that does to stderr
< 1292184897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever
< 1292184902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried (write-file "/dev/stdout")
< 1292184918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, there is princ
< 1292185026 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the proper to display a constantly changing file in a terminal in such a way that the display automatically updates when the file changes?
< 1292185055 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1292185076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: um, tail -f if all that happens is appending
< 1292185099 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: entire file contents get replace
< 1292185108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: does it need to be immediate?
< 1292185115 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much
< 1292185125 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm watch -n 0.001 ?
< 1292185127 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1292185136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: sucks to be you, write your own
< 1292185149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: wow, i had no idea watch did that.
< 1292185154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i've always just used clear in a loop with sleep :)
< 1292185171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: watch seems to change 0.001 to 0.1 :P
< 1292185241 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292185248 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, watch is also linux specific iirc
< 1292185257 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, at least watch means something very very different on *BSD
< 1292185273 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(something to do with tty snooping iirc)
< 1292185283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah bsd watch is more fun!
< 1292185296 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not really feasible to do it without polling, and as such, the best method is to continuously check the last write of the file, and refresh the display when it changes?
< 1292185331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: you can do it without polling.
< 1292185333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAM, say.
< 1292185336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would involve coding.
< 1292185347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: what you said is pointless, though
< 1292185349 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, gamin or inotify yeah
< 1292185349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat is basically instant
< 1292185352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to check for last write
< 1292185369 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, depends on size of file
< 1292185370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: "watch -n 0.1 cat foo" should do fine.
< 1292185376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: whatever :)
< 1292185409 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "watch -n 0.1 clear;cat foo"?
< 1292185417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: no.
< 1292185419 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, watch does clear
< 1292185421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: when i say something, i mean it.
< 1292185421 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292185424 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it is not a shell syntax
< 1292185433 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try it
< 1292185442 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "did this base64 encoded DVD DL iso just change" <-- cat is no longer instant. But then that is 1) useless to watch for 2) doubtful it would fit on screen anyway
< 1292185458 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assumed you meant it, but didn't know if you meant it to clear :D
< 1292185473 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also 3) why the heck did you base64 encode the iso ANYWAY?
< 1292185488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stallman's "The Right to Read", gzipped: http://nullprogram.com/projects/pngarch/right-to-read-gz.png and the program to extract it: http://nullprogram.com/projects/pngarch/files/pngarch-0.2.png
< 1292185494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to rewrite that in haskell because of NIH!
< 1292185526 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh, how do you run the outer one?
< 1292185533 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, huh?
< 1292185548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "the outer one"?
< 1292185566 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how do you actually execute the program to extract it?
< 1292185577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: by using PNG Archiver to extract the PNG Archiver source, duh!
< 1292185588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (try using your favourite OS's lazy evaluation features)
< 1292185593 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and where can I get png archiver to bootstrap this
< 1292185598 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if you see what I mean
< 1292185609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://nullprogram.com/projects/pngarch/files/pngarch-0.2.png
< 1292185619 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't "watch -n 0.1 tail foo" print the last 10 lines of foo every 0.1?
< 1292185621 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you are not helpful.
< 1292185627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: >:)
< 1292185633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yes.
< 1292185641 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't :/
< 1292185645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yes it does
< 1292185647 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, I believe it should, assuming your terminal is larger than 11 lines (since watch adds a line at the top)
< 1292185651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just isn't changing, so it looks the same
< 1292185662 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, watch itself clears
< 1292185668 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, so it looks static
< 1292185676 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "foo" in this case is this channel log, and that's irrelevant since nothing at all was displayed
< 1292185684 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1292185685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: um, you are on linux yes
< 1292185688 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1292185701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: does "tail file" work
< 1292185714 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1292185719 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, does it work if you remove watch -n 0.1? I believe stderr will not be visible
< 1292185732 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1292185738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       The -d or --differences flag will highlight the differences between
< 1292185738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       successive updates.  Using --differences=cumulative makes highlighting
< 1292185738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       "sticky", presenting a running display of all positions that have ever
< 1292185738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       changed.  The -t or --no-title option turns off the header showing the
< 1292185738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       interval, command, and current time at the top of the display, as well
< 1292185739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       as the following blank line.  The -b or --beep option causes the com‐
< 1292185741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       mand to beep if it has a non-zero exit.
< 1292185741 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs to be piped to stdout?
< 1292185743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may like that
< 1292185762 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       Note that command is given to "sh -c" which means that you may need to
< 1292185762 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       use extra quoting to get the desired effect.  You can disable this with
< 1292185762 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       the -x or --exec option, which passes the command to exec(2) instead.
< 1292185764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: ^
< 1292185766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may cause problems
< 1292185775 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1292185778 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, my watch don't accept fractional time
< 1292185792 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, it does, but only in current locale
< 1292185793 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that fixed it thx
< 1292185793 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292185795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: mine's made out of quartz
< 1292185810 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1292185823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: am i a weird person if I like mail(1)?
< 1292185838 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, depends. If you like it for mailing from shell script: no
< 1292185842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no :P
< 1292185850 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if you like it for interactive usage? maaaybe
< 1292185856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: actually I'm considering trying out nmh
< 1292185858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maintained version of MH
< 1292185878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although really, it isn't unixy *enough*; why should i have to run a command to view an email when I have cat? :)
< 1292185928 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really amusing to "watch" this channel :P
< 1292185938 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because they all go in the same file. Also you need locking to avoid collision with the MTA if you try to delete a mail
< 1292185951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: don't all go in one file with Maildir!
< 1292185955 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, there tail -f works fine
< 1292185959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: but your IRC client does that
< 1292185961 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, correct
< 1292185970 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, still needs locking for some operations iirc?
< 1292185970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anyway the backing storage is irrelevant, if the mail client maintains its own
< 1292185971 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah yeah yeah
< 1292185974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which MH does as far as i know
< 1292185988 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, still it needs to *fetch* mail from somewhere
< 1292185993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, vrms sets up a monthly cron job to tell root about non-free software installed
< 1292185993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol!
< 1292186002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sure, and?
< 1292186015 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does tail -f auto-truncate lines further up than 10?  i thought it just kept appending to output...
< 1292186024 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, such as maildir or mail files or pop or smtp. And there you need some sort of locking for most of the file based ones.
< 1292186035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So? that has nothing to do with the interface.
< 1292186036 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and protocol code for the network based ones
< 1292186043 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed
< 1292186047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there's no reason the mail agent can't maintain a directory $mail
< 1292186052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "cat $mail/inbox/some-identifier" :P
< 1292186064 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed, but will you manually pull the mail?
< 1292186077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, you'd use a cron job or any other method
< 1292186081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :push mail, if you can get it
< 1292186097 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then you need locking to avoid collision as far as I know
< 1292186106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: AND?
< 1292186109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what relevance does this have at *all*
< 1292186150 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so how does using cat, rm and so on ensure proper locking?
< 1292186162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ok, quote the line where i said rm
< 1292186162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go on
< 1292186167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll wait here
< 1292186176 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well I assumed that, since it is more unixy
< 1292186187 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or do you accept mail-rm or such?
< 1292186206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what.
< 1292186227 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so how will you remove mails you want to delete from that directory
< 1292186294 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ..
< 1292186301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we both have no idea what this conversation is about any more
< 1292186302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i certainly don't
< 1292186312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ping#27
< 1292186840 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot
< 1292186846 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, where is fungot?
< 1292186870 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, question about kitten.
< 1292186890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear
< 1292186934 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how will you handle stopping some processes when switching from AC to battery. Such as cron, (no one wants updatedb while on battery!).
< 1292186940 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/n,/n/
< 1292186972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what do you mean, how?
< 1292187015 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, will you chmod -x the script and such. And what about preventing it from starting when booting on battery?
< 1292187028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The important question is this: How do you accomplish it now?
< 1292187030 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, will you run some stuff before it can start to chmod -x it if on battery, otherwise chmod +x
< 1292187046 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I believe ubuntu has some magic for it. Considering it does work that way for me
< 1292187059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, that's not exactly very precise.
< 1292187095 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, seems it does it by anacron
< 1292187111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No reason you couldn't accomplish that with plain cron, no?
< 1292187121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, you know, just run anacron.
< 1292187150 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually.... it runs a shell script on the relevant acpi events, which tells anacron to enable/disable
< 1292187157 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems
< 1292187171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "Do that, then" (except s/anacron/whatever you use to handle updatedb and the like/)
< 1292187195 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but how does that solve it for booting?
< 1292187210 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I know it skips it while booting, but I can't find how
< 1292187217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *shrug*
< 1292187229 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also I know it skips "mounted too many times"-fsck if on battery
< 1292187256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's irrelevant on JFS.
< 1292187265 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed
< 1292187271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since fsck takes <1s ("nothing wrong") to maybe 2-3s ("bad shit").
< 1292187393 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292187444 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to do 3D modeling with METAFONT?
< 1292187457 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-4-65.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292187493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't know, but ... let's not find out.
< 1292187535 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, oh my god DO IT DO IT DO IT
< 1292187541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone rename the Howduzitwerk section on http://esolangs.org/wiki/Runespells or I'll die.
< 1292187626 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Can't you do it yourself?
< 1292187640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea what to call it
< 1292187663 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1292187713 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "Overview" or something.
< 1292187741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exec emacs -Q --batch --script /dev/tty/3 3< Deewiant: Also, if you go within a 1 km^2 radius of Vorpal's house, expect to replace things that break randomly. <-- now you are exaggerating.
< 1292188663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sorry; 0.9 km^2.
< 1292188668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Don't let him show you around IT'S A TRAP.
< 1292188697 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the worst that could happen
< 1292188703 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, I meant in the other part. The only place I require breaking of stuff due to bugs is the boatlevator, and it is clearly signed as buggy due to MP bugs
< 1292188712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Suffocating inside a stone block!
< 1292188720 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, other than that only for carelessness or maliciousness
< 1292188747 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I.e. death, something which has no consequences? :-P
< 1292188752 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I never asked for replacement at the underground dock for example
< 1292188764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You'd lose all your inventory! Also, no, no death, health is disabled, remember? You can just /spawn or /home. :P
< 1292188776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still, think of the horror.
< 1292188793 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disabled health sounds lame
< 1292188805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Dude, our primary method of transportation is high in the sky.
< 1292188805 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with no inventory to lose it's no consequences. :-P
< 1292188808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Health was a bitch :P
< 1292188820 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you should rethink the method, then
< 1292188822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Also it broke my top-altitude to bedrock stairs and they're beautiful.
< 1292188825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEAUTIFUL.
< 1292188835 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, anyway, when you spawn, don't move and set your render distance to "far".
< 1292188837 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, until fizzie widened it from 1 wide to 3 wide
< 1292188844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Er, why?
< 1292188847 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, now it is just elliott who fails to walk on it
< 1292188849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should have Creeper Wednesdays or something where monsters are turned on. :p
< 1292188850 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ROU.
< 1292188869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh, yes.
< 1292188871 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well i don't know but i think you could say he once survived by _not_ being the one to use a magic trunk (the ark)
< 1292188879 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, well, the stretch from you to Mt. Hoover is 1 wide.
< 1292188899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should turn on monsters but not health, just to have helpless creepers running about, exploding to no avail.
< 1292188909 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, because you haven't fixed it? I did most of the stretch to me, fizzie most of the stretch from spawn to him and to nailor
< 1292188923 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, both of us said "uh, lets make PH do this" basically
< 1292188926 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is so long
< 1292188927 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, that stretch is REALLY LONG.
< 1292188935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody goes to Mount Hoover that way :P
< 1292188935 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, which is why we left it to you
< 1292188938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray for the minecarts.
< 1292188945 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you might as well now.
< 1292188955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Slow.
< 1292188956 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The minecarts are slow now, for some reason.
< 1292188964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Not as slow as walking.
< 1292188974 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bug of some sort, they are slower than in single player
< 1292188978 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not *quite* as slow.
< 1292188990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe we should just tell Deewiant the address, considering he has Finn Privileges. :p
< 1292189003 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I never heard of that
< 1292189008 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait for ineiros
< 1292189017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: fizzie, ineiros, nailor -- see the pattern!
< 1292189037 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, me, you, Phantom_Hoover. 3 other people
< 1292189059 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, but you are from SCANDINAVIA!
< 1292189070 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is basically the SAME THING!
< 1292189083 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, not even same language group
< 1292189105 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language group, SCHMANGUAGE GROUP.
< 1292189117 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm... schmanguages...
< 1292189136 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt a Hungarian would get in on the premise of having a mother tongue in the same language group
< 1292189155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, me, you, Phantom_Hoover. 3 other people
< 1292189158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those three were there first. p
< 1292189174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And fizzie said it was basically a .fi server before you infiltrated.
< 1292189178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant has Rights.
< 1292189213 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also on that other channel with ineiros and fizzie.
< 1292189222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, that seals the deal.
< 1292189236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh, and Vorpal saying "t" constantly is his Tourette's. Please be respectful of his condition.
< 1292189241 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And based on idle time, I think that ineiros may have gone to bed about 2 minutes before I asked.
< 1292189260 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no I say t because the thing doesn't echo locally, so good lag check
< 1292189262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Do you know of a domain name that consists of a with three numbers after it, ending in a generic TLD for non-profits?
< 1292189266 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, since the server goes down every now and then
< 1292189267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*three digits
< 1292189274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the last two digits are equal.
< 1292189293 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and since t is talk, tt = send a t. which is fast
< 1292189300 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can guess. :-P
< 1292189329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You can guess three digits? :P
< 1292189329 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Phantom_Hoover says t a lot too
< 1292189338 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The TLD, mostly.
< 1292189349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I was using it to verify if you already knew most of the address. :p
< 1292189350 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Appears to be running Apache with some kind of default index.
< 1292189359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Verily.
< 1292189372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You know how some servers have ports they run on?
< 1292189391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is feasible that one of them would have a port denoted by the maximum value of an unsigned char, in decimal, followed by the last digit of that value, plus one.
< 1292189402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Is that not a valid port according to the relevant specifications?
< 1292189405 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....
< 1292189412 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would guess that all servers have at least one port that they run on.
< 1292189419 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I wonder what ineiros will say
< 1292189420 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or respond on, to be precise.
< 1292189422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Not if they're magical.
< 1292189429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Say when what?!
< 1292189461 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, UCHAR_MAX depends on CHAR_BIT, at least. :-P
< 1292189480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, hey, I wasn't specifying anything, I was just SAYING!
< 1292189488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take no responsibility for my information, which is factual.
< 1292189539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheesh, this business is too cutthroat. I think I'm leaving the fact dissemination industry.
< 1292189607 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's much safer to just lie about everything.
< 1292189629 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo hey, is there an echo bot in here?
< 1292189640 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, is there an echo bot in here?
< 1292189671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^cat whirlpool
< 1292189678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm is that the name, i forget
< 1292189681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know ^echo is silly
< 1292189698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I feel like my services aren't being appreciated.
< 1292189706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need payment.
< 1292189741 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gave you the word "overview" earlier, does that cover it?
< 1292189760 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, have you figured out the Secret Address of the Esoteric Order of Minecraft?
< 1292189781 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. I haven't tried it yet, though.
< 1292189818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow! I wonder how.
< 1292189821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Did you just guess??
< 1292189839 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of it, yes.
< 1292189846 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CHAR_BIT == 8, for example.
< 1292189856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
< 1292189872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I guess the ways of Finns are not to be ken by mortal men.
< 1292189879 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then don't bring it up as subject matter.
< 1292189890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, that rhymes. The ways of Finns / are not to be ken / by mortal men. Can I get a payment for *that*, then?
< 1292189937 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to translate it into grammatically correct finnish first.  while still rhyming.
< 1292189956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Bork bork bork / bork bork bork / bork bork bork. wait that's swedish
< 1292189975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Paaïetta paaïetta paaïetta / paaïetta paaïetta paaïetta / paaïetta paaïetta paaïetta.
< 1292189986 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't correct English, why bother making it correct Finnish
< 1292189998 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate paaietta
< 1292190003 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paaietta
< 1292190024 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto fi en paaietta
< 1292190026 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paaietta
< 1292190034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: while my translation was accurate, it was not correct.
< 1292190034 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not Finnish. :-P
< 1292190054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspected that, with the ï
< 1292190137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not Finnish. :-P
< 1292190142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reporters report that Deewiant may be "not Finnish".
< 1292190156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is supposedly based on a statement by Deewiant himself where he reportedly says that he is, reportedly, "not Finnish".
< 1292190180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Are you actually there? :P
< 1292190314 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello.
< 1292190320 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, hi!
< 1292190427 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, can Deewiant join our big Minecraft party?
< 1292190436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Big Minecraft party, in the sky.
< 1292190439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a cloud.
< 1292190443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is my fanon and I'm sticking to it)
< 1292190552 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides to build a cloud with his titanic cloth surplus.

< 1292190834 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just don't lett the cloud hit any icebergs
< 1292190838 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*let
< 1292190861 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION strangles his spelling

< 1292190905 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292191289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1292191333 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal
< 1292191644 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@209.59.220.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292191831 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  your premise to falsify "false" is false
< 1292191832 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :248)  your premise to falsify "false" is false
< 1292192250 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@75-174-221-22.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292192268 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292192430 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292192569 0 :augur!~augur@store.redemmas.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292192796 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal
< 1292192828 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@209.59.220.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292193059 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292193671 0 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-d9329cc9.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292193703 0 :fizzie`!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292193736 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-1176439313.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292193791 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292193791 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292193792 0 :p_q!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292194017 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292194055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1292194086 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ompldr.org/vNmpiYw/2010-12-12_21.44.23.png
< 1292194110 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wooden house, chess and stairs by night.
< 1292194195 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292194214 0 :fizzie`!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :fizzie
< 1292194218 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1292194220 0 :augur!~augur@store.redemmas.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292194526 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → sleep

< 1292194528 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1292194535 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292195236 0 :hagb4rd2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :hagb4rd
< 1292195246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://ompldr.org/vNmpiYw/2010-12-12_21.44.23.png
< 1292195248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is pretty.
< 1292195339 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal
< 1292195519 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@209.59.220.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292196223 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: i hope
< 1292196301 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@209.59.220.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292196374 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1292196509 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phon far?
< 1292196513 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah
< 1292196520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he quit
< 1292196535 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, quite small window he plays in
< 1292196539 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not near maximised
< 1292196543 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or he has a small screen
< 1292196599 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I should get a dual screen setup again, so I can post HUGE screenshots
< 1292196629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: who
< 1292196638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh phantom
< 1292196650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: erm 1366x768 is the size of my display
< 1292196652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and presumably his
< 1292196767 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, small
< 1292196782 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have 1680x1050 on this
< 1292196792 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@209.59.220.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292196793 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1292196804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yours isn't a laptop.
< 1292196823 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, correct
< 1292196830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mine is 24"
< 1292196861 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 24" laptop would be annoying
< 1292196883 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no?
< 1292196895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 1680x1050 at 24" is terrible ppi.
< 1292196904 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, maybe it is 22"
< 1292196905 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure
< 1292196908 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets a ruler

< 1292196930 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, slightly over 50 cm diagonally
< 1292197075 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@209.59.220.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292197196 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test
< 1292197364 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, seems sprunge runs on google app engine
< 1292197372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: evidence?
< 1292197383 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1292197383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's open sourec now
< 1292197384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*source
< 1292197385 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/rupa/sprunge (linked from sprunge.us)
< 1292197387 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed
< 1292197401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't see what's wrong with that :)
< 1292197412 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nothing, just interesting
< 1292197429 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and explains why it is never laggy
< 1292197435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://un.ix.io/ this is him
< 1292197444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah, but it's not as good as MY pastebin!1111
< 1292197451 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, link?
< 1292197452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i appear to be turning into some kind of mutant object database in my head
< 1292197456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: /home/elliott/code/...
< 1292197457 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1292197469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well fizzie's does both url forwarding and pasting so why not EXTEND THAT
< 1292197470 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, second system syndrome
< 1292197477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: actually, first system syndrome :D
< 1292197496 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for you yes, but second compared to exisiting ones
< 1292197510 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that link: bash revision control
< 1292197511 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1292197527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: technically i wrote the perfect pastebin earlier which used *your* editor configured how *you* want it to display the file, in a manner tuned to your OS
< 1292197533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but everyone whined that ZOMG IT OPENS A NEW WINDOW
< 1292197538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so HMPH
< 1292197542 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I like it showing in browser
< 1292197551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, 's 'cuz you're stupid!
< 1292197559 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, everyone wanted that though
< 1292197571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, ais523 loved it :P
< 1292197580 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but what about Gregor? or fizzie?
< 1292197588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they didn't comment
< 1292197599 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, see, they were just to polite to complain!
< 1292197615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Made this little wrapper around the delightful automeme service for easy spamming with irssi. I have /meme aliased to /exec -o meme and it annoys the hell out of esch."
< 1292197618 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How exactly does it use YOUR editor configured how YOU want it.
< 1292197628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Because it tells the browser to open the file in the appropriate application.
< 1292197635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is set to your favourite editor for that type of file.
< 1292197643 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wtf is "flattr"? I saw a link saying "flattr this", "twit this" and "dig this" I seen, but this is a new one
< 1292197661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's this thing the guys behind tpb made i think ... at least i hear it was them
< 1292197667 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1292197669 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are services down?
< 1292197672 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yet another social network?
< 1292197678 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, so it said in the wallops a while ago
< 1292197684 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-tomaw/Wallops- Services will be offline for a few minutes while we fix some database issues.
< 1292197686 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-tomaw/Wallops- Channel ops may wish to op themselves in case they need ops during the downtime
< 1292197686 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: thanks
< 1292197687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, i forget what it is
< 1292197690 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231049071.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292197695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: micropayments, it seems
< 1292197702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flattr is a micropayment system - more specifically, a microdonation system - that launched publicly in March 2010 on an invite-only basis[1], and then opened up to the public in August 2010[2].
< 1292197702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flattr Button (does not actually Flattr this page)
< 1292197702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flattr is a project started by Peter Sunde and Linus Olsson. Users are able to pay a small amount every month (minimum 2 euros) and then click Flattr buttons on sites to share out the money they paid in among those sites, kind of like an Internet tip jar.
< 1292197705 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm, bad thing to click on such a link thne
< 1292197720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, it SUCKS YOUR MONEY OUT AUTOMATICALLY WITHOUT EVEN CONFIRMING
< 1292197721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something
< 1292197724 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of annoying in channels requiring registration to talk :/
< 1292197745 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, use a bouncer!
< 1292197756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1292197766 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1292197769 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: dunno anything about those
< 1292197781 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest66174
< 1292197788 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this looks interesting https://github.com/joelthelion/autojump/wiki
< 1292197791 0 :Guest66174!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292197798 0 :Guest66174!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like they're back :D
< 1292197798 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back up I guess
< 1292197859 0 :Guest66174!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :quintopia
< 1292197952 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Is that server new enough to have biomes or is it all grassy?
< 1292197981 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or whoever knows:)
< 1292197998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292198001 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, biomes in far out areas
< 1292198013 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but older generated in the areas around spawn
< 1292198040 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, one place biomes start is just beyond mt. hoover
< 1292198042 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, that explains it
< 1292198060 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you get strange jagged areas along the edges sometimes
< 1292198367 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1292198399 0 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292198808 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal
< 1292198823 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@209.59.220.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292199228 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292199255 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292199375 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292199380 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292199460 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm, ice cappuccino
< 1292199524 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, a bit on the chilly side?
< 1292199531 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but I guess it is still quite a cool idea
< 1292199535 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hot inside
< 1292199564 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but where does the ice come into it?
< 1292199585 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's refrigerated
< 1292199593 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, not hit then?
< 1292199597 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hot*
< 1292199601 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confused
< 1292199611 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the room is hot
< 1292199618 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292199624 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, lucky you
< 1292199627 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, in this winter
< 1292199645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, this looks interesting https://github.com/joelthelion/autojump/wiki
< 1292199645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old
< 1292199657 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does it work well?
< 1292199665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people swear by it :P
< 1292199677 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, your personal opinion?
< 1292199678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use it for all your swearing
< 1292199688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't support ksh so I'd be violating my principles by using it.
< 1292199698 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I could have sworn you was about to make a pun
< 1292199715 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, apart from that?
< 1292199775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Got a bucket?
< 1292199801 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, /dev/null
< 1292199809 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the bitbucket)
< 1292199813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, I mean, uh, come to ineiros' pit./
< 1292199822 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not about to log in again
< 1292199828 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, need to get up in 6 hours
< 1292199829 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so nigh
< 1292199831 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night*
< 1292199836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The end is nigh.
< 1292199859 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, just tell me what happened here on irc
< 1292199874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I created two beautiful waterfalls and now I can't find the way back up. I could just /spawn :P
< 1292199888 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in his pit?
< 1292199893 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also /sethome
< 1292199900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: MAYBE in his pit.
< 1292199917 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why did you carry the buckets in your quickslots
< 1292199935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's what I do.
< 1292199939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was not unintentional :P
< 1292199946 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then you have to face the consequences
< 1292199955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will they ever be the same again?
< 1292199974 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I
< 1292199978 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure he will remove them
< 1292201476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I already did.
< 1292201479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant is still on.
< 1292202176 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1292203975 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d932907e.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292204507 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292205024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://torrentfreak.com/mininova-pays-settlement-to-brein-to-end-bittorrent-lawsuit-101210/ Mininova finally gives up.
< 1292205029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP, you were shitty.
< 1292205164 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292205546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so people actually (1) still use DES
< 1292205550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and (2) use DES to hash passwords
< 1292205895 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292206000 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd link to something incredibly awesome, but it would reveal my approximate location
< 1292206007 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I might have done so already
< 1292206008 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm
< 1292206057 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, name the school I go to
< 1292206080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Farmingdale.
< 1292206083 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs887.snc4/72009_10150103222437744_618027743_7875332_7903663_n.jpg
< 1292206095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is that incredibly awesome
< 1292206110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair, I didn't actually look more than a glance.
< 1292206134 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it makes me happy, at any rate
< 1292206181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually know what it is :P
< 1292206195 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is tempted to look for jpeg metadata ;D

< 1292206198 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm certified to give CPR
< 1292206204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh good idea oerjan
< 1292206209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: um isn't cpr ... pretty easy
< 1292206219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, as far as things go :P
< 1292206223 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Sadly, you are not certified to take clear pictures.
< 1292206241 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ye...es
< 1292206260 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although doing it wrong on someone who doesn't need it can kill them
< 1292206262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no interesting EXIF.
< 1292206269 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292206274 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Doing it wrong on someone who does need it can kill them too
< 1292206290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Indeed, taking unclear pictures can cost lives.
< 1292206298 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone who does need it is already dead. Doing it wrong just increases the chance that they'll stay dead
< 1292206311 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*severely increases
< 1292206311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ... Your definition of "dead" SUCKS.
< 1292206320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beyond all previous known bounds of suckage.
< 1292206331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I was dead but -- thanks to Sgeo -- I got better!"
< 1292206343 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CPR doesn't actually restart the heart
< 1292206346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you think cardiac arrest constitutes death, WELCOME TO THE PAST
< 1292206347 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And I didn't even get turned into a newt!"
< 1292206397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo is now qualified in ZOMBIE CREATIONL.
< 1292206398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*CREATION.
< 1292206409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OMG IF WE FLATLINE WE CAN BECOME ZOMBIES.
< 1292206413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD IDEA OR BEST IDEA
< 1292206435 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure why trained persons are preferred for AED usage. I mean, as long as you follow directions... ah, that's probably why. Although I doubt the thing about using adult pads on children and not child pads on adults is on there
< 1292206447 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S CLEARLY HOW THE KIM FAMILY GOT THEIR SUPERPOWERS
< 1292206469 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean most of them look half dead already
< 1292206492 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1292206496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: COPYRIGHT FUCK YEAH: Aston Kutcher is in trouble for broadcasting 13 minutes of the film Killers, starring Aston Kutcher, on the interwebnets.
< 1292206520 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did he make the film, or just star in it?
< 1292206530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: He made every single frame with his own nose.
< 1292206534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By hand.
< 1292206536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean. by nose.
< 1292206549 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nasufacturing
< 1292206565 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if porn companies do copyright violation lawsuits.
< 1292206585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEHOLD, UDEV:
< 1292206585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENV{x11_options.EmulateWheel}="true"
< 1292206586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENV{x11_options.EmulateWheelButton}="2"
< 1292206586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENV{x11_options.YAxisMapping}="4 5"
< 1292206586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENV{x11_options.XAxisMapping}="6 7"
< 1292206586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENV{x11_options.Emulate3Buttons}="false"
< 1292206588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENV{x11_options.EmulateWheelTimeout}="200"
< 1292206600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's right -- we replaced xorg.conf with a bunch of magic files that have conditional rules to ... set xorg.conf settings.
< 1292206610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PROGRESS AUTOMATIC MAGICISM
< 1292206613 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, aimed to embarrass
< 1292206621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What.
< 1292206628 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :embareass
< 1292206639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1292206641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Kill him.
< 1292206647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just kill him and evrything will be perfect.
< 1292206708 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Die Bösen werden geschlachtet, die Welt wird gut.
< 1292206736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE
< 1292206786 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that _was_ a quote in case you didn't realize
< 1292206814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE WHERE NORWAY IS HITLER
< 1292206818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIKE THE ACTUAL PERSON HITLER
< 1292206822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QUANTUM THEORY SAYS IT IS POSSIBLE
< 1292206836 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many-person interpretation
< 1292206840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I can't find the thing that let you easily do single-file git
< 1292206948 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many-Norway Interpretation
< 1292206958 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292207105 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Fried
< 1292207114 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the poet of the above)
< 1292207172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm going to assume he was being *slightly* sarcastic :)
< 1292207175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a tad
< 1292207182 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you don't say :D
< 1292207292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You should donate like three servers to me.
< 1292207375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: WHY HAVEN'T I RECEIVED THEM YET
< 1292207419 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Do not doubt him who tells you he is afraid, but be afraid of him who tells you he has no doubts."
< 1292207628 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That would leave me with -3 servers.
< 1292207645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: SO?
< 1292207717 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gives Gregor i servers

< 1292207736 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION steals j servers from Gregor

< 1292207779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Seriously, kill him.
< 1292207822 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION multiplies elliott by i

< 1292207836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Please.
< 1292207847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION quantum collapses Sgeo 

< 1292207863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GET REAL
< 1292208152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... *Anyone* still uses DES?
< 1292208194 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... *That's* how X11 settings get set?
< 1292208198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Udev‽
< 1292208209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Seemingly! (That's for overriding stuff.)
< 1292208229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The DES thing was Gawker. Their password DB got stolen and they've cracked two hundred thousand passwords or so.
< 1292208236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Serves them right too, Gawker are scum.
< 1292208258 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Takes a complete moron to continue using DES.
< 1292208289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was demonstrated to be entirely practical to crack 10 years ago...
< 1292208335 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about Triple-DES?
< 1292208352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: lol.
< 1292208356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU FUNNY MAN
< 1292208399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: (Well, yes, it works. For now.)
< 1292208407 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Triple DES is not comically poor.
< 1292208426 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: *However*, there are much better encryption schemes to use.
< 1292208427 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All these things are "for now"
< 1292208430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wanna build an FPGA DES cracker and run it on the database? (Not publicly leaked yet, but ...)
< 1292208433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Hahahahahaha.
< 1292208440 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't have $10,000 handy.
< 1292208442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Okay, firstly: IT WAS PASSWORDS.
< 1292208447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU DO NOT ENCRYPT PASSWORDS
< 1292208450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU *HASH* PASSWORDS
< 1292208464 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... WAITWAITWAIT THEY ENCRYPTED THE PASSWORDS WITH DES WHY GOD WHY
< 1292208465 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would someone encrypt a password?
< 1292208467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://www.sciengines.com/copacobana/
< 1292208473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Don't need $10k.
< 1292208493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how they cracked so many so quickly.
< 1292208518 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: With $10k worth of FPGAs.
< 1292208519 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible for them to crack several without actually determining the key?
< 1292208533 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sciengines.com/copacobana/photos/photo_b4.jpg
< 1292208543 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun thing, I have undone cryptography and computer security homework that I'm putting off at this moment
< 1292208543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Are you sure that's $10k worth. Just buy evaluation boards :P
< 1292208555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: NEVER EVER DO CRYPTOGRAPHY *EVER*
< 1292208557 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should look for my textbook or something
< 1292208562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is directed specifically at you.
< 1292208579 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh... why?
< 1292208585 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Still... Even if it is $10k, that's still *terrible* encryption.
< 1292208603 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's seriously at the point of "if any single person wants it fairly badly, they can have it."
< 1292208608 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And surely you don't think I'm a security moron, do you? I mean, maybe I don't follow best practices in my own life, but
< 1292208659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, of course, any business or government would hardly think anything of it.
< 1292208698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Almost nobody should try and write cryptographic code.
< 1292208708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would yell the same at pikhq and ais523.
< 1292208719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you get a special, additional message.
< 1292208722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That message is: NEVER EVER
< 1292208736 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rule #1 of cryptography is you will almost certainly fuck it up.
< 1292208742 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'd probably even yell it at himself.  i hope.
< 1292208782 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have homework I haven't done
< 1292208790 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact every morning he stands in front of the mirror for 10 minutes yelling "DON'T DO CRYPTOGRAPHY!"
< 1292208802 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a wonder they let him out of that institution, really.
< 1292208813 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote matrimony
< 1292208824 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292208829 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_-'
< 1292208835 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i don't think anyone added it
< 1292208850 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 7 min, I'm quitting IRC
< 1292208895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote matri
< 1292208895 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forever?
< 1292208896 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292208899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote oerjan
< 1292208900 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7)  what, you mean that wasn't your real name?  Gosh, I guess it is. I never realized that. \ 19)  ehird has gone insane, clearly. \ 21)  oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a
< 1292208906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quote oerjan | tail -n 2
< 1292208908 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :195)  it's not obvious from quantum mechanics that you can destroy a universe arbitrarily. \ 247)  oerjan: What, can girls aim their penises better?
< 1292208916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what did you do to the quote
< 1292208937 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing, and i do not recall anyone actually _adding_ it to HackEgo in the first place
< 1292208946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292208973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:47:56  oerjan: No, I definitely meant E=m. Who cares about the energy of an object in motion, anyways? :P
< 1292208973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:48:50  THAT IS THE KIND OF ATTITUDE THAT HAS LEAD TO THE CURRENT OBESITY EPIDEMIC
< 1292208973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:49:22  oerjan: :D
< 1292208973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:49:36  oerjan: you need like a web form where people can file requests to be married to you, just for a few weeks
< 1292208973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:49:39  it could be very profitable
< 1292208975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:49:53  oerjan: :D
< 1292208977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:50:18  pikhq: don't you agree, i mean
< 1292208979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:50:24  that comment totally warrants brief matrimony.
< 1292208981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to condense to quote size
< 1292209056 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/m
< 1292209162 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TWO MINUTES LEFT
< 1292209198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ban him after the 7 minutes
< 1292209200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOREVER.
< 1292209246 0 :benuphoenix!~benuphoen@beowulf.benuphoenix.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292209250 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry, Elliott. I'm afraid I can't do that.
< 1292209275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you're now my least favourite insane all-powerful AI.
< 1292209280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (previously you were my favourite)
< 1292209299 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not very all-powerful really.  ok maybe just a little.
< 1292209379 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1292209417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: YOU SHOULD COME BACK TO AGORA
< 1292209419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ALSO YOU
< 1292209432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the great thing is, it's so boring now that you don't have to do anything
< 1292209503 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was outside with the dog
< 1292209511 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably look for my textbook or something
< 1292209516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's been two minutes
< 1292209519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ban him
< 1292209520 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do the ambiguous Perl project
< 1292209530 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or go insane
< 1292209542 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ALREADY DID THAT
< 1292209569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: IT'S BEEN SEVEN MINUETS
< 1292209573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, all seven Minuets
< 1292209580 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like twelve, actually
< 1292209598 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My laptop's acting broken
< 1292209605 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gives his laptop the middle finger

< 1292209610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that does not stop you quitting IRC
< 1292209617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can't you see he has a problem
< 1292209619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: YOU MUST BE THE REMEDY
< 1292209631 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: IRC終われ！
< 1292209657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: GOATS HATE YOUR CONNECTION
< 1292209670 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well but don't you see, if i banned people for procrastinating here, i'd have to ban myself too
< 1292209686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah but you don't say "OKAY I'M GOING IN N MINUTES" and then not :D
< 1292209694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal only gets away because → is not *yet* regulated
< 1292209729 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, he actually _does_ occasionally sleep at nighttime
< 1292209763 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well me too although that's more of a pseudorandom accident
< 1292209827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: BATS
< 1292209828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALWAYS
< 1292209829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KNOW
< 1292209830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god
< 1292209857 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292209858 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's this talk, have you gone batshit insane?
< 1292209861 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → nowhere in particular

< 1292209878 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn, I thought Sgeo would have pinged out by now
< 1292209888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: ENTERING IS NOT LEAVING
< 1292209889 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He quit, yay!" "Wait, he's back"
< 1292209909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: didn't you buy some fucking melatonin
< 1292209911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i distinctly recall
< 1292209917 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1292209923 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sleep is not my issue here
< 1292209926 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My issue is homework
< 1292209937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292209938 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Piles and piles of homework
< 1292209942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: when i get thrown off here i usually have to kill my irssi after logging on again
< 1292209943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well take some anyway just for the hell of it
< 1292209954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: i'll give you $15 for every hour you stay up on Melatonin after the first
< 1292209956 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of this going through a shell account
< 1292209964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., take regular melatonin dose, first hour passes, then $15 for every full hour after that
< 1292209964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go!
< 1292209973 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe in 2 weeks
< 1292209995 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if my doctor would give me melatonin if i asked
< 1292210009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well it's over-the-counter in most places
< 1292210019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: WP says it's prescription-only in the uk but it isn't since you can buy it anyway
< 1292210031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: failing that just import it http://melatonin.com/ :P
< 1292210041 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's considered a dietary supplement in the US.
< 1292210062 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meaning it isn't even fucking regulated beyond actually having to contain only what it claims to contain.
< 1292210079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's on all those vaguely-new-agey ~herbal remedies~ websites over here
< 1292210103 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tobacco: All natural. Must be good for you, try some today!
< 1292210107 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it requires a prescription in norway
< 1292210114 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Your body doesn't produce tobacco.
< 1292210119 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :norway is pretty strict about such things, i think
< 1292210123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh well, just import it anyway :D
< 1292210141 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was more mocking herbal stuff than anything connected to melatonin
< 1292210143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i mean worst case, you get outraged headlines talking about the drug smuggling charges for ... melatonin on the national newspapers
< 1292210149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and that would be hilarious.
< 1292210154 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Ah. Fair enough.
< 1292210171 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well there wouldn't be anything wrong with _asking_ my doctor would it, given that i actually have an appointment on thursday
< 1292210174 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. What does the body produce that you shouldn't take in more of?
< 1292210184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well maybe he'll find out about your cocaine habit
< 1292210189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: semen
< 1292210202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: um, shit? :p
< 1292210213 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's a she)
< 1292210224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's what he wants you to think
< 1292210229 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A shee? Creator of norns?
< 1292210239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok seriously, ban him
< 1292210242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have justification now
< 1292210258 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just heard a cat yelping. Got frightened, then realized that my cat is right here
< 1292210284 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: HCl.
< 1292210330 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In homeroom, which was in a science classroom: "Hey Seth, what's HCI? Is it safe to drink?"
< 1292210342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I"
< 1292210343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rage
< 1292210362 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not against me. I'm saying what the person said...
< 1292210374 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure HCI is possible.
< 1292210407 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about H#C#I# for nonzero #?
< 1292210415 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, possibly different numbers
< 1292210505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turtles
< 1292210506 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably *possible*, not necessarily all that *stable*.
< 1292210509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turtles say bye Sgeo_
< 1292210511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_ go bye bye
< 1292210514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turtles
< 1292210625 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if you help me find my textbook... hm, I have nothing of value to give you. But since it's physically impossible for you to help me find it anyway
< 1292210641 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Methyl iodide, also called iodomethane, and commonly abbreviated "MeI", is the chemical compound with the formula CH3I."
< 1292210649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: The one thing of value you could give me is for you to leave right now.
< 1292210680 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you realize that I'm not taking you seriously
< 1292210698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Um, I was really serious there.
< 1292210708 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: that's supposedly simplest organic iodine compound
< 1292210712 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+the
< 1292210713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no that's you
< 1292210720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're the simplset organic iodine compound
< 1292210722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*simplest
< 1292210723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a kitten
< 1292210877 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i'm really more a puppy
< 1292210894 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, 3 min, I leave
< 1292210914 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2min
< 1292210915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ban him this time
< 1292210921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also, i hate dogs, so you're a kitten
< 1292210928 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what's with the me-hate?
< 1292210939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: i'm just trying to help you achieve your goals
< 1292210940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are leaving
< 1292210946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which also coincides with my goals, which are to be an asshole
< 1292210960 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My goal is to get my homework done. If I could do that and stay on IRC, I would
< 1292210977 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although avoiding IRC hasn't helped in the past...
< 1292210990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet next class you'll learn about looping through an array!
< 1292210991 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Industrially significant organoiodine compounds, often used as disinfectants or pesticides, are iodoform (CHI3), methylene iodide (CH2I2), and methyl iodide (CH3I)."
< 1292210995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an education well-spent
< 1292211031 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1292211070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can you ban him anyway?
< 1292211215 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk
< 1292211266 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@97-124-32-78.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292211341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: BAN HIM
< 1292211414 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1292211706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm so if pastebins, url shorteners and image hosters are the same thing maybe EVERYTHING Is
< 1292211707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is
< 1292211850 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292212039 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292212471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais better be more active tomorrow
< 1292212473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ensure it
< 1292212641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed 's/^X//' > \R\E\A\D\_\M\E << '+ END-OF-FILE '\R\E\A\D\_\M\E
< 1292212642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X#	This file is part of the Concurrent Versions System CVS.
< 1292212643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that is clever!
< 1292212647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remind me to use that in ddshar maybe
< 1292212654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait i can't really, not with this architecture
< 1292212655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn
< 1292212661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remind me to do ddshar properly, then
< 1292212708 0 :quintopi1!~quintopia@209.59.220.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292212714 0 :quintopi2!~quintopia@209.59.220.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292212778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[# No versioning of symbolic links. Symbolic links stored in a version control system can pose a security risk - someone can create a symbolic link index.htm to /etc/passwd and then store it in the repository; when the "code" is exported to a Web server the Web site now has a copy of the system security file available for public inspection. A developer may prefer the convenience and accept the responsibility to decide what is safe to version and
< 1292212778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : what is not; a project manager or auditor may prefer to reduce the risk by using build scripts that require certain privileges and conscious intervention to execute.]]
< 1292212780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst excuse ever
< 1292212789 0 :quintopi2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1292212838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[OpenCVS is a BSD-licensed implementation of the popular Unix version control software called Concurrent Versions System. OpenCVS is developed as a part of the OpenBSD project by Jean-Francois Brousseau, Joris Vink, Xavier Santolaria, Niall O'Higgins and others.
< 1292212838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenCVS aims to be as compatible as possible with the GNU CVS implementation without compromising security or source code correctness, and to provide better access control.[1] As of October 2010[update], the project website claims that "OpenCVS is to be released soon"[2] and the project shows CVS activity as recent as August 1st, 2010. The project is still actively being developed.
< 1292212838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[edit] OpenRCS
< 1292212839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of the development of OpenCVS the developers saw the need for OpenRCS also and OpenBSD has started to develop a free and secure version of RCS also.]]
< 1292212844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.opencvs.org/
< 1292212846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: LOL NIH
< 1292212890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RCS was first released in 1982[1] by Walter F. Tichy while he was at Purdue University as a free and more evolved alternative to the then-popular Source Code Control System (SCCS). It is now part of the GNU Project, who is still maintaining it. The current development version is 5.7.95 (released on 2010-12-02,[2] is a step toward the first release since 1995[3]—5.8 is planned to be released “in a week or so”.[3]
< 1292212938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha wow, Jörg Schilling maintains SCCS.
< 1292212969 0 :quintopi1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1292212975 0 :p_q!~poiuy_qwe@66.49.147.144 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292213014 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292213055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1292213221 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6f8c.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292213492 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn it took him forever to get to bed :P
< 1292213507 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hi elliott! i love you i promise!)
< 1292214233 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-33-181.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292214403 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1292215182 0 :CPi!~CPi@113.111.198.10 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292215414 0 :CPi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :假洋鬼子
< 1292215427 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slip inside my sleeping bag
< 1292215437 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sasha!
< 1292215463 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate 假洋鬼子
< 1292215469 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh thanks oerjan
< 1292215474 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was just gonna ask someone to do that
< 1292215494 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fake foreign devil
< 1292215500 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292215566 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en zh Don't you like our topic? :D
< 1292215568 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :你不喜欢我们的话题？ ：Ð
< 1292215645 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto zh en 你不喜欢我们的话题？
< 1292215646 0 :CPi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :你们喜欢用英文，这很正常。但你们的标题我不太认同
< 1292215646 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do not like our topics?
< 1292215669 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto zh en 你们喜欢用英文，这很正常。但你们的标题我不太认同
< 1292215680 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like English, this is normal. But I do not agree with your title
< 1292215740 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en zh It's just meant as a joke anyhow.
< 1292215741 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :这只是意味着一个玩笑，无论如何。
< 1292215779 0 :CPi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may be
< 1292215863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :If this topic doesn't confuse you, you haven't understood it properly. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1292215960 0 :CPi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :我想大家都没有什么恶意，只是在开放的网络，更需要开放的精神，还有中国人的胸怀
< 1292215978 0 :CPi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :对不起，打扰啦
< 1292215991 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate 我想大家都没有什么恶意，只是在开放的网络，更需要开放的精神，还有中国人的胸怀
< 1292215993 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think everybody does not mean anything, but in an open network, more needs to open up the spirit of the Chinese people's mind there
< 1292216012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate 对不起，打扰啦
< 1292216013 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry to bother friends
< 1292216049 0 :CPi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1292216372 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has a point i suppose
< 1292216427 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1292216451 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was gonna change topic to "this topic is as subtle as your penis" but that's not really the medium for that joke
< 1292216489 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't do that, if our previous topic attracted furious chinese, then that might attract furious women
< 1292216500 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly
< 1292216515 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's especially apt for women
< 1292216596 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about "this topic is as subtle as the idea of a penis as a status symbol for males" :P
< 1292216626 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_may be_
< 1292216646 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah it's too convoluted
< 1292216661 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST LIKE YOUR PENIS
< 1292216851 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what she said
< 1292216864 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("she" is traditionally taken to be "your mom")
< 1292216988 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WANTED (soon): Pithy, short, well-known phrases about evil.
< 1292217005 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which include the word "evil")
< 1292217015 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The love of money is the root of all evil.
< 1292217169 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :related: women are evil
< 1292217272 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.
< 1292217342 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.
< 1292217355 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I am evil, not stupid."
< 1292217382 0 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292217564 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
< 1292217631 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do good, reap good; do evil, reap evil.
< 1292217662 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BTW, this is incredibly fun
< 1292217697 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: what are you going to do with them?
< 1292217708 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to get the best pithy title for a paper about eval :P
< 1292217724 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Root of All Eval was vetoed as being misleading since we're not about provenance.
< 1292217795 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The current title is The Eval that Men Do, but I think we can do better.
< 1292217805 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a necessary evil"
< 1292217869 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not for the paper you're writing
< 1292217889 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's already used for a subsection, with a question mark (A Necessary Eval?)
< 1292217893 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"good vs. evil"
< 1292217948 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems a bit more biased than we want in a title for a scientific paper :P
< 1292217985 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: anything you write is going to bring up evil-eval associations, so...
< 1292217992 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this bible site is darn slow
< 1292218012 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"an evil spirit"
< 1292218023 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I googled "evil quotes"
< 1292218037 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: THAT'S CHEATING
< 1292218040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, evil
< 1292218049 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: It's supposed to bring up evil-eval associations of course, but the title, not taken as a pun, should not be biased. The bias should only be through the pun :P
< 1292218092 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To fear the LORD is to hate evil
< 1292218095 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the wave of eval"
< 1292218109 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION whistles innocently^Wevilly

< 1292218146 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the worst of evil"
< 1292218182 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the paper about?
< 1292218203 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the lesser of two evils"
< 1292218209 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why do you
< 1292218210 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :entertain evil thoughts in your hearts?"
< 1292218262 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah here i think is the one i was looking for: "The Heart of the Sons of Men Is Full of Evil"
< 1292218294 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: what's the paper about?
< 1292218311 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: It's an in-depth study of how eval is used in real-world code.
< 1292218311 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hazards a guess it's about eval somehow

< 1292218373 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the eval that men do is actually descriptive
< 1292218401 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1292218408 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not pithy enough :P
< 1292218416 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll do if we don't find anything better
< 1292218445 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"evil empire"
< 1292218462 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Eval Empire"...?
< 1292218528 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION whistles the Star Wars theme

< 1292218573 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall some short phrase involving "the nature of evil", but can't find it ...
< 1292218589 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"axis of evil", but that's someone's blog
< 1292218653 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is now looking at Wikipedia titles, which have much less noise

< 1292218668 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fear no evil"
< 1292218690 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the mind of evil"
< 1292218701 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"don't be evil"
< 1292218737 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"all about evil"
< 1292218787 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "Resident Eval" wins the worst-possible-name award.
< 1292218793 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Using the same method :P )
< 1292218852 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the changing face of evil"
< 1292218891 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"for love of evil"
< 1292218912 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I will fear no evil"
< 1292218950 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the ultimate evil"
< 1292218971 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deliver Us from Eval X-D
< 1292219009 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"defending the throne of evil"
< 1292219047 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292219052 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"good people in times of evil"
< 1292219072 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey
< 1292219092 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1292219141 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the stench of evil"
< 1292219145 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p
< 1292219200 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I think that's pretty much it
< 1292219203 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The evil league of evil?
< 1292219208 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1292219238 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"evil among us"
< 1292219243 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, unfortunately I think The Eval that Men Do is still the best :(
< 1292219262 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an evil that walks the earth
< 1292219272 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i think it suits your paper best as well
< 1292219313 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but when you find a good reason to write a paper called "The Life of Eval Knieval" let me know)
< 1292219453 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: on the other hand, now you know how to quickly find good titles if you're completely stuck
< 1292219475 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would be surprised if he had not done this before
< 1292219489 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I need to find how to name a subsection Lord Deliver Us from Eval
< 1292219513 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drop the lord and you can find a way
< 1292219562 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, since it is the worst-possible-name, resident eval deserves a subsection
< 1292219613 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: IMO "the eval empire" should also be in there
< 1292219635 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: It's a good'n, but I don't know what it means :P
< 1292219665 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about you have a section judging whether uses of eval are legitimate or stupid
< 1292219666 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spawn of eval
< 1292219670 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and call it "the eval umpire"
< 1292219687 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: used by Ronald Reagan to refer to the Soviet Union
< 1292219700 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Nonono, I don't what it means in terms of eval
< 1292219711 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: ... *barf* :P
< 1292219747 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you use it for the introduction... "widespread use of eval", etc.
< 1292219794 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Rats Lave On No Eval Star
< 1292219928 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OOOH
< 1292219945 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See No Eval, Hear No Eval can be a title for a subsection about how most analyses simply ignore eval 8-D
< 1292220077 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... "a report on the banality of eval"
< 1292220161 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ Gregor ?
< 1292220175 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval is not banal though
< 1292220230 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only Gregor knows the results of his paper, and whether or not eval is banal
< 1292220232 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, eval considered harmful?
< 1292220244 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure this has been done
< 1292220276 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i lolled a little though
< 1292220306 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "Considered Harmful" Papers Considered Harmful
< 1292220315 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, indeed
< 1292220438 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: does your paper end up showing that eval is banal?
< 1292220477 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: You could say that
< 1292220481 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the conclusion should definitely be called the evaluation instead
< 1292220540 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: then IMO
< 1292220565 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A Report on the Banality of Eval" is a better title
< 1292220569 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Is that a reference to something though?
< 1292220603 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banality_of_evil
< 1292220633 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the eichmann book
< 1292220642 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmmmm
< 1292220659 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to you, of course
< 1292220670 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, js
< 1292220671 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1292220675 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yuh
< 1292220780 0 :asiekierka[2]!~asiekierk@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292220906 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1292220941 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl, university
< 1292220963 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: where's it going to appear? LtU?
< 1292220993 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: I can't guarantee that it's going to appear anywhere :P
< 1292221006 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: But we're aiming for ECOOP, which luckily is non-anonymous so I can talk about it :P
< 1292221017 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I want to see it!
< 1292221033 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: how does non-anonymous peer review work?
< 1292221068 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: advance copies for everyone here, right?  eyes only?
< 1292221087 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Uhhh, like any other peer review? Remove conflicts of interest, and don't be "that guy" who treats people preferentially :P
< 1292221130 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292221130 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the third paper I've published this term, but the first I've mentioned here since the other two have been anonymous :P
< 1292221158 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are avoiding the question sir
< 1292221175 0 :asiekierka[2]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292221179 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed!
< 1292221205 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If somebody wants to proofread it on Wednesday, maybe :P
< 1292221521 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anonymous papers?
< 1292221565 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nonanonymous
< 1292221596 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: why can't I read it now? just throw it up somewhere like arXiv, Google docs, etc.
< 1292221599 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...for some of us it's the concept of an _anonymous_ paper which boggles the mind :D
< 1292221614 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now it's a giant pile of graphs with little explanation :P
< 1292221621 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292221622 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Anonymous only for review
< 1292221662 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292221677 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when will they become nonymous?
< 1292221698 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean lolonymous
< 1292221726 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: When/if published :P
< 1292221829 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm not _sure_ if math uses anonymous review, the times i was asked it certainly wasn't.  in any case keeping it secret for anyone _other_ than the reviewere sounds weird, given that we basically give preprints to anyone who could want one...
< 1292221844 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-e
< 1292221869 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true that
< 1292221881 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so gregor, what were the other papers about, vaguely?
< 1292221896 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, you're supposed to make a best-faith effort not to reveal that information just in case someone knows someone who knows someone, unless you actually intend to work with them.
< 1292221901 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: JavaScript and JavaScript.
< 1292221905 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not vaguely because you have to keep them secret.  vaguely because i don't care enough to hear details)
< 1292221914 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, blargh
< 1292221918 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION stopped caring

< 1292221919 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnight
< 1292221921 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you write about anything but js?
< 1292221932 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Not right now ;P
< 1292221958 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: _and_ we give talks at conferences about the work, too.
< 1292221970 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ... yes, that's the whole point of a conference.
< 1292222001 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329929.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292222014 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's because judging the work based on its author is such a good nutjob-filtering heuristic in math, anonymous review would break the field.
< 1292222017 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unless it's a very big field it would be extremely likely for the reviewere to be at that conference, i should think...
< 1292222019 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders wtf oerjan thinks Gregor means by "anonymous submission" :P

< 1292222051 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: These are /conference/ submissions.
< 1292222060 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: oh.
< 1292222062 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Conferences are the journals of Computer Science.
< 1292222087 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think math should go that way too
< 1292222097 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i guess it's not common to have pre-reviewed conference talks in math either
< 1292222150 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: A non-pre-peer-reviewed conference in CS is called a joke :P
< 1292222281 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHAHA good one Gregor
< 1292222397 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... not a good joke I'll admit.
< 1292222530 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of jokes, i hear doug presented the chicken paper at a conference.  wish i could have been there.
< 1292222533 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: why? they just need some way to, after the first minute, shut them up and say "next"
< 1292222552 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: the music!
< 1292222609 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: That's just how CS works. Journals are generally considered sort of an olde and musty means of doing things, used only for extremely drab things like giant proofs and shit, conferences are just the equivalent for new and ongoing stuff.
< 1292222646 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the way math works too
< 1292222666 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idonno how math works :P
< 1292222681 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: who does?  it's alchemy...
< 1292222892 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
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< 1292225557 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I have the H. Lee hand grenade of Auntie Ock.
< 1292225629 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*groan*
< 1292225967 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@97-124-35-253.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1292227199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
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< 1292231142 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1292237541 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest36478
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< 1292239366 0 :hagb4rd|afk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :hagb4rd
< 1292239418 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: *disappears in a puff of orange smoke*
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< 1292242852 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1292243312 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
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< 1292246139 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 
< 1292246591 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b754d.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292247060 0 :ais523!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292248531 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292249628 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1292250430 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292251407 0 :p_q!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1292251469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, you know your job is potentially awesome when you come up with a valid reason to play Enigma during a meeting, and even tell the other people there you're doing so
< 1292251575 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its even better when there is no need to tell the others at all
< 1292251584 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess^^
< 1292252766 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292253052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: nah, I could get away with that sort of thing nearly all the time, nobody pays attention to what you're doing
< 1292253431 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1292253476 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292253526 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292253689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so olsner wtf is that stuff you have to do before long mode your code is magic :D
< 1292254322 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292254777 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: hagb4rd
< 1292254856 0 :nopseudoidea!~nopseudoi@85-168-235-235.rev.numericable.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292255011 0 :nopseudoidea!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292255431 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d932d78d.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292255942 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1292255945 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292255961 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292255969 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292256132 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thing that annoys me about Minecraft: you get flint from gravel.
< 1292256136 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.188.14 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292256149 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In class now
< 1292256151 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flint is found in limestone in real life, not gravel.
< 1292256152 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, why does that annoy you?
< 1292256155 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1292256163 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No way I'd be able to focus on homework for a different class
< 1292256177 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but boats accelerating up waterfalls due to floating on water doesn't bother you?
< 1292256182 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor am I willing to pirate a textbook (I own the physical copy) and I obviously don't have the textbook with me
< 1292256190 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, no!
< 1292256200 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, arguably that is a much larger error
< 1292256212 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, but it's a cool error!
< 1292256237 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1292263481 0 :clog!nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292263484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: reason I don't think it should be .scapegoat, btw: it's not configuration, and it's not a cache; it's an actual directory with useful contents, just not one you want at the top of your file lists
< 1292263485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi clog
< 1292263489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, this convo hasn't been logged
< 1292263494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have it logged
< 1292263498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good
< 1292263509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll put it on a pastebin in a bit
< 1292263515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sprunge
< 1292263519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evil idea: paste the entire log in-channel, so that a) clog logs it, and b) Vorpal gets to read it
< 1292263528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've done that before, during much shorter outages
< 1292263530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, probably bad idea)
< 1292263538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, and also, servers
< 1292263544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you don't want to have a directory foo/ with just .scapegoat in it
< 1292263545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does sprunge stay around forever?
< 1292263550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes
< 1292263554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :git makes it "foo.git"
< 1292263563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no real reason you shouldn't be able to do, e.g.
< 1292263572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darcs uses _darcs, which isn't ideal but which is better than .svn or whatever
< 1292263601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/awesomeproject$ cp -R @scapegoat /var/scapegoat/awesomeproject
< 1292263619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and scapegoat when pulling would basically go "is this directory a scapegoat repository? if not, look at ./@scapegoat"
< 1292263622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everyone's happy
< 1292263631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: _darcs is actually like that solely for Windows
< 1292263638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? how boring
< 1292263641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even realise it ran on Windows
< 1292263650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that why it doesn't record permissions?
< 1292263652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and people (even me...) have lobbied to change it to .darcs... regretfully
< 1292263654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: who knows?
< 1292263661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it only runs on windows through some half-cygwin monster, I think
< 1292263664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget what, exactly
< 1292263677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, we so need an ISO 646 for permissions, i.e. a permission subset that works everywhere sane)
< 1292263688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the problem with _darcs that you really want something that comes after everything in the alphabet; just like you name things README and INSTALL so they sort first alphabetically, the scapegoat directory should come last to avoid annoyance
< 1292263693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(then we can invent trigraphs for permissions that aren't there)
< 1292263706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I get used to ignoring a load of junk at the start of ls outputs
< 1292263720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, last is probably more readable than first because of the way terminals scroll
< 1292263724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first scrolls off before last does
< 1292263728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I say we just track Unix permissions in the actual implementation (it can be abstracted out as metadata in the specification) and forget Windows even exists
< 1292263738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so do I
< 1292263740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : in fact, last is probably more readable than first because of the way terminals scroll
< 1292263743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but e.g. graphical file managers
< 1292263748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :README and INSTALL go first, which is nice
< 1292263752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I forgot they existed for a while
< 1292263769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm far from a live-inside-the-terminal sort of person
< 1292263771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually use Nautilus occasionally :)
< 1292263773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do I
< 1292263780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, for opening Enigma levels
< 1292263784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292263791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure why; I just developed different workflows for different sorts of file for some reason
< 1292263797 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, is that why README and co. are uppercased? Too bad that not all LC_COLLATEs operate that way
< 1292263801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes.
< 1292263816 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Any others than C?)
< 1292263816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not do it Makefile-style and just uppercase the first letter?
< 1292263825 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I doubt it
< 1292263826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION makes mental note to make sure scapegoat implementation is in C, because it's flexible enough that the overhead of something else is probably a bad idea :)

< 1292263828 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always figured it was just to make them stand out
< 1292263830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know README sorts to the middle in my ls
< 1292263840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you see 00README on ftp servers a lot
< 1292263841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the like
< 1292263844 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm mostly just wondering about en_US
< 1292263848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292263858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: mine's en_GB.UTF-8, I think
< 1292263860 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because if that doesn't work that way, then most people probably don't see it like that :-P
< 1292263862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ditto
< 1292263866 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same here
< 1292263871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though there's no actual reason to use UTF-8 for British English other than the £ sign
< 1292263876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you use British English?
< 1292263877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: you're... en_GB.UTF-8?
< 1292263887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and €, I suppose
< 1292263889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION 's mind causes a fault or two

< 1292263904 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ locale | sed 's/"//g' | cut -d= -f2 | sort -u
< 1292263904 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :custom
< 1292263904 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :en_DK.utf8
< 1292263904 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :en_GB.utf8
< 1292263904 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi_FI.utf8
< 1292263904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: btw, I needed this conversation to regain my sanity
< 1292263914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Linux keylogger thing was as disasterous as you might have imagined
< 1292263944 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, huh?
< 1292263958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not nice debugging code where the only indication that something went wrong is that the entire system crashes hard (apart from interrupt handlers; and as the keylogger hooks the keyboard interrupt, any key you press to try to fix the problem makes things worse)
< 1292263973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :D
< 1292263981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you do realise you can gdb linux?
< 1292263983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably painful though
< 1292263986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm paid to help people work on exercises, even if they were terribly flawed in the first place
< 1292263994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't, in fact I thought it was impossible
< 1292264004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gdb on the keyboard interrupt handler is asking for a disaster
< 1292264011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you'd have to use, umm, telepathy to control it?
< 1292264019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: umm, you run Linux in qemu or whatever
< 1292264021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the handler in question is called on mouse movements and clicks too)
< 1292264023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and attach gdb to it from outside
< 1292264028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that makes more sense
< 1292264029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's called kgdb
< 1292264036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, technically, it's over a serial port
< 1292264040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but you just tell qemu to emulate a serial port
< 1292264048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're using the serial console in the NetHack TAS
< 1292264052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(good luck debugging the serial driver...)
< 1292264057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the Debian installer, modified to run NetHack
< 1292264063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what.
< 1292264076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the serial console because it was faster than waiting for the network connection to come up
< 1292264097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ooh, let's argue about what hash function to use to identify things!
< 1292264099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the Debian installer beause we were trying to strip down Debian and then realised that the installer itself was Linux-based, really small, and ran a single program
< 1292264126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(GUIDs are lame, (1) they're random numbers, which feels so unplatonic and bad, and (2) hash-addressing is awesome, because it constitutes a near-certain proof that you know what the content is)
< 1292264129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it no longer actually installs Debian, unfortunately; that'd have been pretty fun if it did)
< 1292264134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :D
< 1292264154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, the Debian installer has an actual name, although not the part you mean
< 1292264160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the installer program itself is called debian-installer
< 1292264166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably mean "the Debian installer environment"
< 1292264169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I do
< 1292264172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, hash arguing! the most fun and pointless sport there is
< 1292264190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about SHA-(maximum filename length on Windows)
< 1292264197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's probably shorter than UNIX's
< 1292264200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh
< 1292264203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is, with typical filesystems)
< 1292264217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd say we should just go for whatever turns out to be the winner of SHA-3, except that they disqualified djb's CubeHash
< 1292264222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm sad because I /like/ CubeHash
< 1292264223 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My eyes really hurt for some reason...
< 1292264235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, they disqualified some just because they were too simple
< 1292264240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, you do realise that SHA-n isn't n hex digits?
< 1292264241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus, too good to be true
< 1292264245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed
< 1292264246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not too simple, just ones that made them "nervous"
< 1292264252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless your source is something more than the press release
< 1292264266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, my source is something less, it's a random Slashdot comment
< 1292264272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292264277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they have a pretty good accuracy on average
< 1292264290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less like Wikipedia is still mostly correct
< 1292264294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: to be honest, we could just use SHA-512 and it'd never be a problem, but *eh*
< 1292264305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could use md5 and it'd never be a problem
< 1292264312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless people were trying to store hash collisions or something
< 1292264318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or deliberately trying to screw up repos
< 1292264319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not true, what if we version-controlled those presidential predictions :)
< 1292264323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292264333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: deliberately screwing up repos is a platonic concern, considering everything is one gigantic tree
< 1292264337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292264353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the filenames (and thus patch names) should probably include the hash algo as part of the name
< 1292264356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: an issue of SHA-512 is that I can imagine a filename having multiple hashes in its path
< 1292264360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we can change without breaking compatibility
< 1292264366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a lot of filesystems have limits
< 1292264373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, base36 encode whatever hash we use?
< 1292264376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, like /etc/passwd
< 1292264386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I dunno, hexadecimal is so pretty :)
< 1292264399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, IIRC the SHA2 algos are designed to not get weaker by any more than you'd expect if you remove bits at the end
< 1292264412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, obviously they get weaker, but they don't collapse or anything like that
< 1292264416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Max filename length 	255 bytes
< 1292264417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--JFS
< 1292264424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, presumably that's a single path
< 1292264426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than the whole thing
< 1292264428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*single path component
< 1292264428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that for filename components? or the whole thing? does it count slashes?
< 1292264432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, comments crossed
< 1292264448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, whole thing would be ridiculous, I'm sure I have something about that long on my system
< 1292264449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: which is it
< 1292264456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would filenames have multiple hashes in their path, anyway?
< 1292264468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to refer to multiple hashes, you just hash the hashes together
< 1292264474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because the hash-based-append-only-key-value-store is nested
< 1292264481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because?
< 1292264493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: erm, because otherwise you'd end up storing patch1_thing1_foo1
< 1292264495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, in fact, every single thing would have its own hash, even if it's nested inside something else
< 1292264500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the nesting doesn't have to reflect on the filesystem
< 1292264502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so never mind
< 1292264503 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the point
< 1292264511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are arbitrary nesting levels, but the filesystem itself is flat
< 1292264518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1292264548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: prediction: if we get any sort of reputation at all, we'll get a bad reputation from people who do "ls [NUL]scapegoat" and see a shitload of hashes
< 1292264550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nothing else
< 1292264560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, better than Monotone, which just has a gigantic sqlite database
< 1292264575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NUL in filenames is a terrible idea
< 1292264585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it was a joke
< 1292264588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292264597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd still have things like the equivalent of git config --global, too
< 1292264607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, nothing to do with the repo at all, but with the user
< 1292264612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, SHA-512 is only 128 hexadecimal digits, so we shouldn't have a problem
< 1292264614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/.scapegoat would be an excellent place for those
< 1292264621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, 255 is very unlikely to be whole-path!
< 1292264640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vaguely wonders if there's a hash algorithm that produces cryptosecure 8.3 filenames

< 1292264641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because Nix does /nix/store/LONGHASH--packagename-version/... (or similar), where ... is a whole root tree
< 1292264653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anything with a long path installed to / gets an even longer path in there
< 1292264653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is no, there probably just aren't enough filenames to prevent bruteforcing
< 1292264661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people use various filesystems on nix
< 1292264665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, what are the valid chars of an 8.3 name?
< 1292264714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in terms of what physically fits on the filesystem, anything including NUL, except spaces are used to pad the filename portions to 8 and 3 respectively
< 1292264714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, should ~/.scapegoat be an append-only-hash-addressed-key-value store itself, or just a directory with some plain text files in it?
< 1292264718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say the latter, for easy editing :P
< 1292264728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, DOS didn't check for validity in the filenames, that was left up to individual applications
< 1292264729 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, depends
< 1292264734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nothing complex should really go into ~/.scapegoat anyway; if it has to, a store can go in a subdirectory
< 1292264742 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't lowercase stored as uppercase in FAT16
< 1292264743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what did most things consider valid, then? I know that it's uppercase-only
< 1292264746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember the chaos I had trying to delete an 8.3 filename with an embedded space years ago, on DOS
< 1292264769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: indeed, but if you flip the bits on the disk by hand, it won't physically you changing the letters to lowercase
< 1292264771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Legal characters for DOS filenames include the following:
< 1292264771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * Upper case letters A–Z
< 1292264771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * Numbers 0–9
< 1292264771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * Space (though trailing spaces in either the base name or the extension are considered to be padding and not a part of the filename, also filenames with spaces in them could not be used on the DOS command line because it lacked a suitable escaping system)
< 1292264772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * ! # $ % & ' ( ) - @ ^ _ ` { } ~
< 1292264773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * (FAT-32 only) + , . ; = [ ]
< 1292264776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * Values 128–255
< 1292264786 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, of course you can physically flip a / into a Unix filename as well
< 1292264794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've known some FAT16 systems to uppercase, e.g., ë
< 1292264795 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't mean it's valid as such :-P
< 1292264797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, I meant é
< 1292264799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, 26+10+1+16+128
< 1292264810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the number of valid chars
< 1292264815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's 11 of them
< 1292264836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: an 8.3 filename, even with insane 128-255 characters and space, has 82.4983 bits in it
< 1292264840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slightly more because trailing spaces are allowed, but not leading or embedded spaces
< 1292264851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, answer: not really anything secure, no
< 1292264871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OTOH, there's rather more filenames than you can bruteforce
< 1292264876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's around 2^41 for a birthday attack, considering a theoretically perfect hash
< 1292264881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 6830686029298982514463981
< 1292264893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we ignore 128-255 and space, then 7516865509350965248
< 1292264894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fear 2^41 is within range of modern hardware, more or less
< 1292264903 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it's a horrendously large number
< 1292264904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is 62.7 bits)
< 1292264909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh, you *fear* that?
< 1292264920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292264925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modern hardware is scary
< 1292264932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember I grew up with floppy disks
< 1292264941 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A megabyte is big, dammit
< 1292264958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^41 is large enough that although I have a mental idea of how it compares to various other large numbers, I just can't mentally conceptualise it at all
< 1292264965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, and you said 50K was quite a large save file and thus is a feasible minecraft save file
< 1292264973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1292264975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the server's must be about 80 megs by now
< 1292264977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe more, 100 or so
< 1292264982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it saving?
< 1292264996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (big number)x(big number)x128 bytes
< 1292265001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, I think blocks are bytes
< 1292265006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: plus a little bit more
< 1292265021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: big is, uhh
< 1292265024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well the area isn't square
< 1292265031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a bitmap of the entire 3D map?
< 1292265033 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What about stuff like snow on top of ground, that doesn't take up a tile does it?
< 1292265036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://a322.org/mc/map-2010-11-29.png is a recent-ish map
< 1292265036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think it'd at least use runlength encoding
< 1292265037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: basically, yes
< 1292265040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it probably does
< 1292265045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but that's the raw data it's storing
< 1292265050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That counts as a block I think.
< 1292265055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Just a not-very-tall block.
< 1292265066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You can't place stuff on top of it until the next block above, I don't think.
< 1292265092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, the fact that it's 3d means it's storing a bunch of underground caves and lava and oceans and stuff
< 1292265092 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough
< 1292265125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I'm afraid I'm going to not be able to stop myself from writing a hash-addressed, append-only key value store now
< 1292265126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: even so, you'd imagine them to be relatively easily compressible
< 1292265142 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, snow, ice, torches, redstone, etc. are just non-solid blocks.
< 1292265143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: go for it, we might even use it and even if we don't, it'd be useful in general
< 1292265166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it can't compress them too much, since it has to random-access write frequently
< 1292265193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RLE survives random-access writes pretty easily
< 1292265203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it occurs to me that I may just be reinventing Venti backed by a unix file system
< 1292265207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you'd need to use something like a skiplist to prevent shuffling data around in memory too much
< 1292265211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venti) Venti is a network storage system that permanently stores data blocks. A 160-bit SHA-1 hash of the data (called score by Venti) acts as the address of the data. This enforces a write-once policy since no other data block can be found with the same address: the addresses of multiple writes of the same data are identical, so duplicate data is easily identified and the data block is stored only once. Data
< 1292265211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : blocks cannot be removed, making it ideal for permanent or backup storage. Venti is typically used with Fossil to provide a file system with permanent snapshots.
< 1292265215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(plan 9)
< 1292265314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm
< 1292265330 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't know how it does actual storage, but the network protocol deflate-compresses the block updates it sends out.
< 1292265332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I just realised that there's one problem with my "merging two scapegoat directories is always easy" thing
< 1292265341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHA-1? isn't that broken nowadays?
< 1292265343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: which is?
< 1292265343 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming 50000 square units, which doesn't seem unreasonable, the map would be 300 megabytes uncompressed
< 1292265349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um, it's Plan 9
< 1292265353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: SHA-1 isn't nearly broken, no
< 1292265356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been attacked
< 1292265358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not nearly broken
< 1292265361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, Plan 9 is old
< 1292265363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, OK
< 1292265367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they probably picked it soon after SHA-1 came out
< 1292265372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less than theoretically perfect, probably
< 1292265378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: besides -- "Several source code management systems, including Git, Mercurial, Monotone, and Fossil, use the sha1sum of various types of content (file content, directory trees, ancestry information, etc.) to uniquely identify them."
< 1292265381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which always scares the crypto people
< 1292265396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it's been attacked.
< 1292265398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: don't you want to 1-up them?
< 1292265400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: of course!
< 1292265403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not suggesting we use it
< 1292265419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, i just realised an issue
< 1292265427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: with my "merging two scapegoat directories is always trivial" thing
< 1292265433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it?
< 1292265489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: given a scapegoat directory, how can the user ask for a reasonable working copy of a project without being given additional information? Note that it is possible to merge every single scapegoat directory ever (ok, ignoring hash collisions) without doing anything more than letting the merge of two identically-named and identically-valued files happen (which is a nop).
< 1292265507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if the answer is "figure out what the Official Branch is and extract that", tell me how you'd do that
< 1292265513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember that you must address everything by its hash
< 1292265543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd need to specify a branch, which is after all just a criterion for selecting a set of patches
< 1292265550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the real question is how
< 1292265562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right.
< 1292265564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some sort of nicknames-for-hashhes method would be useful
< 1292265574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nicknames-for-hashes
< 1292265576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean, personally, I don't see ScapegoatHub taking off if you have to paste a big hash in to get a project :)
< 1292265581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: possibly ... but then how do you store them?
< 1292265587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without breaking the Merge Principle
< 1292265590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like git uses server branch, and the server can be abbreviated
< 1292265603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you could get away with the same principle
< 1292265617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, perhaps µscapegoat/nicknames/[hash that's being nicknamed]-[hash of the nickname]
< 1292265622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the content of the file is the nickname itself
< 1292265648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then, when the user asks for branch "fobly", scapegoat looks at ↓scapegoat/nicknames/*-H, where H = hash("fobly")
< 1292265650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simpler, you could just do "scapegoathub.org/intercal" or whatever
< 1292265651 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the block updates take up 2.5 bytes per block. (One byte for block type, one nibble for metadata, one nibble for static daylight value, one nibble for dynamic block light value or some-such.)
< 1292265659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no
< 1292265665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: æscapegoat is the scapegoat directory
< 1292265672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it was another topic
< 1292265674 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah
< 1292265680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean, just for specifying a branch name
< 1292265683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and if there's only one nicknames/*-H file, it accepts it and uses that hash
< 1292265687 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, are they packed?
< 1292265689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but if there's multiple, it goes "conflicting nicknames!"
< 1292265693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does this seem reasonable to you?
< 1292265697 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, or what does he put in the remaining holes?
< 1292265704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can say which server it's a nickname according to
< 1292265717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to download someone's project, you connect to the server and request a particular nickname from it, it tells you what hash that is
< 1292265720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm really adamant about the "never any conflicts in øscapegoat directories" thing, because being able to synchronise with *anything* is just too nice, and also being able to merge any two arbitrary repositories
< 1292265721 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They're packed. I don't know how it deals if there's an odd number of blocks in a chunk update.
< 1292265722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then gives you the hash and all the dependencies
< 1292265726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, but the beauty of this is,
< 1292265727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree
< 1292265730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same concept
< 1292265731 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe zero-pads the last byte.)
< 1292265733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I just invented our branch naming method too
< 1292265734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: without any servers
< 1292265737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a different syntax on the command line
< 1292265738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes
< 1292265766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: simply, to nickname an object with hash H, to nickname N, you write N to ¹scapegoat/nicknames/H-HN, where HN = hash(N)
< 1292265771 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: They're packed. I don't know how it deals if there's an odd number of blocks in a chunk update. <-- sounds inefficient to unpack
< 1292265777 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is this for your mapper?
< 1292265789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then we just need naming standards
< 1292265806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that raises the risk of someone slipping a malicious nickname in
< 1292265809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: e.g., say that @tip names the Official Branch by convention
< 1292265814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (issue: how to name things that aren't constant?)
< 1292265815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does it? how?
< 1292265823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the problem we've come up against is the DNS problem
< 1292265830 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :' ais523: simply, to nickname an object with hash H, to nickname N, you write N to ¹scapegoat/nicknames/H-HN, where HN = hash(N)
< 1292265832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decentralized, secure, memorable, pick two
< 1292265839 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's with the superscript 1?
< 1292265845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: running gag
< 1292265854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: we can't agree on a name for the directory, so we're picking random Unicode characters as prefixes
< 1292265855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, I don't see why security is important here
< 1292265867 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it called scapegoat?
< 1292265868 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's not *that* inefficient: to get one nibble, it's a single >>1 to get byte offset, and either a &0x0f or a >>4 to get the value. Anyway, I don't look at the metadata or light values, so...
< 1292265877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because say you have a nickname you care about, underload or whatever
< 1292265878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if there's two files claiming to give a value to the nickname "grok", and you ask scapegoat for grok, it just goes BEEP BEEP YOU CAN'T DO THAT IT'S BROKEN FIX IT
< 1292265887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think you should name anything underload
< 1292265895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you should name something, e.g. "tip" or "next-gen"
< 1292265908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the fact that merging two unrelated repositories would make these nicknames useless is irrelevant; you just reassign them
< 1292265912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, are nicknames server-relative? or global?
< 1292265915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they are, after all, mere conveniences
< 1292265918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: neither
< 1292265919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thoguht you meant global
< 1292265921 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why is it named scapegoat? It make me thing of scapegoat tree (the data structure).
< 1292265929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because it's blame-based
< 1292265929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because it's based on blame
< 1292265934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: basically,
< 1292265936 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, interesting
< 1292265937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there's a data structure called a scapegoat tree?
< 1292265952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you ask scapegoat for "a good working directory", it looks up the nickname -- say -- @tip
< 1292265956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and uses that
< 1292265974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good working directory for... what?
< 1292265975 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's yet another self-balancing binary tree.
< 1292265980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the repository!
< 1292265982 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, a self balancing tree with no per-node memory overhead compared to plain binary trees
< 1292265985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now, if a nickname points to more than one thing -- e.g. you merged two independent repositories -- it'd go "Beep! Beep! Name points to two things! Fix this!"
< 1292265986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say I connect to scapegoathub.org and ask it for @tip
< 1292265990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you don't!
< 1292265994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, good
< 1292265997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: scapegoat doesn't even know what scapegoathub.org *is*
< 1292265998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're getting somewhere now
< 1292266003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed
< 1292266005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for instance, imagine this
< 1292266008 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@97-124-39-38.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292266009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I want to download a project from there
< 1292266011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do I do?
< 1292266022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: $ wget http://scapegoathub.org/especially-ridiculous-distribution-methods/tarballs/my-awesome-project-of-luv.tar
< 1292266031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: $ tar xf my-awesome-project-of-luv.tar
< 1292266033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: $ ls
< 1292266038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ¾scapegoat
< 1292266042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, and that tarball contains all the hashes in the project and their dependencies, presumably?
< 1292266044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: $ scg give-me-a-reasonable-cwd
< 1292266045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1292266048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see
< 1292266050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it'd look up @tip
< 1292266068 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ¾?
< 1292266071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wget line, although it'd work, though, is likely inefficient
< 1292266074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: of course, you wouldn't actually distribute repositories that way, I was just trying to demonstrate how I'm trying to make everything completely agnostic of how you get the scapegoat directory
< 1292266075 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for the current map, the bounding box is about 4704x6032 blocks, of which 6913281 blocks (24.36%) actually exists; that means about 850 megabytes if I just take *128 bytes; more, if it's actually *128*2.5; less, if it's more sensibly stored.
< 1292266082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thus the /especially-ridiculous-distribution-methods/
< 1292266088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: as i said, running gag
< 1292266090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292266099 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mhm
< 1292266106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, if you did e.g.
< 1292266115 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, iirc the admin said it was like 100 MB some weeks ago
< 1292266122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: $ cp -R proj/someproj/€scapegoat/* proj/anotherproj/€scapegoat
< 1292266124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then you did
< 1292266127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: $ cd proj/someproj
< 1292266132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: $ scg give-me-a-reasonable-cwd
< 1292266138 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think it's very likely the on-disk storage is deflate'd or something.
< 1292266142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ERROR: Nickname "@tip" points to more than one hash!
< 1292266144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: [ahash]
< 1292266146 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It might be kept uncompressed in memory, though.
< 1292266146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: [anotherhash]
< 1292266146 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah probably
< 1292266149 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Away some moments.)
< 1292266150 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1292266153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Please rectify this problem with "scg name".
< 1292266164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so, obviously, you just have to fix that to get it working
< 1292266172 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, built anything on the server yet btw?
< 1292266183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: IMO there's little reason to try and keep nicknames global, because (1) they're just conveniences and (2) you can easily reassign them
< 1292266195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, slightly unrelated; I've realised that you could use a patch name instead of a branch name, making every patch implicitly "a branch containing only dependencies of this patch"
< 1292266195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (you should probably version them, but that's irrelevant at this point)
< 1292266204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed
< 1292266204 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, I meant 300 gigabytes earlier, I typoed my divisor
< 1292266209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, there's *one* remaining problem with this
< 1292266219 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nothing of relevance
< 1292266222 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, 300 GB for what?
< 1292266234 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-12-13 20:35:14 ( Deewiant) Assuming 50000 square units, which doesn't seem unreasonable, the map would be 300 megabytes uncompressed
< 1292266239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: one thing that worries me is why the nicknames have to be inside the ¬scapegoat directory
< 1292266240 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah
< 1292266247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they seem more reasonable alongside rather than inside it
< 1292266251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe they don't, but let's stick with it until I've corrected this issue:
< 1292266253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1292266258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: with ðscapegoat/nicknames/HO-HN (HO = hash of object, HN = hash of name), how do you make @tip always point to the Official Branch?
< 1292266270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: updating it every time the Official Branch changes is brittle and ugly
< 1292266272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: aha!
< 1292266275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've got it
< 1292266282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Official Branch is just an algo for picking a certain set of hashes
< 1292266285 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait wait wait
< 1292266285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you make it point to the algo
< 1292266286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAIT
< 1292266290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better?
< 1292266290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the formula for the Official Branch is *itself* an object, of type Pointer
< 1292266292 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-14-115.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292266295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I just said
< 1292266299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but I thought it first :D
< 1292266306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just been assuming that all this time
< 1292266309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and didn't realise you weren't too
< 1292266310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: whenever anything tries to use a Pointer as something of another type, it's implicitly evaluated
< 1292266312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good
< 1292266315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was easy
< 1292266316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd call it of type Branch
< 1292266320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's just semantics
< 1292266322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, okay, but you get the point
< 1292266344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: as for whether it's in ħscapegoat or not, I think it should be, because having branch and tag names in the repository is nice
< 1292266349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and also, I think they should be versioned
< 1292266361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think we maybe need two layers
< 1292266366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: e.g., if you merge two projects in a silly manner, and then resolve the branch naming conflicts
< 1292266368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be versioned
< 1292266381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and quite possibly; perhaps we should have ”scapegoat/store be the actual key-value backing
< 1292266389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's what I was about to suggest
< 1292266391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (but I *refuse* to break the copy-merging :))
< 1292266393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, smartquotes? shame on you!
< 1292266403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, I like smart quotes :)
< 1292266405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way, copymerging would work, but copycaching would wrok too
< 1292266408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*work
< 1292266410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Microsoft ruined their reputation by doing them terribly
< 1292266413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and pre-Unicode)
< 1292266415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. just copying the store
< 1292266423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed
< 1292266427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, what do you mean by copycaching?
< 1292266458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, just copying the store wouldn't necessarily change the repo, because it might be based entirely on whitelisting branches
< 1292266465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm... some VCSes try to promote the idea of branching by cloning... but I think that's actually really infeasible with scapegoat, because of the platonic view of things :)
< 1292266466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, I suspect, the most common usecase
< 1292266469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: I don't see this as a bug)
< 1292266470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'd speed things up in future
< 1292266476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: whoa, I just realised something excellent
< 1292266489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: say you want two working directories pointed at a different branch of the same project
< 1292266489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not infeasible, you just hardlink the stores
< 1292266508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: $ mkdir branch1; ln -s main/ħscapegoat branch1
< 1292266516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh, right, but the point is
< 1292266526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: some VCSes promote doing it without even telling the VCS you're branching
< 1292266528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway, that's lovely
< 1292266531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is, whether the store has to be inside the directory or not
< 1292266542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (the above softlink doesn't work in every other VCS, because they have the working directory addressed without a hash)
< 1292266544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't, working directories and stores are independent
< 1292266552 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so far it looks like 4/5th of the code with be a char mapping table :P
< 1292266567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, there's no reason to have multiple stores on a given physical computer at all
< 1292266568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(TODO: figure out how to find the relevant working directory without having the path hardcoded and keeping merging and linking working)
< 1292266575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed
< 1292266579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't want a patch, you just don't whitelist it
< 1292266587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but you would, anyway, for convenience :)
< 1292266596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for speed using scapegoat, probably
< 1292266600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to save network traffic, or whatever, you set things to download only patches that are contained in some branch you have
< 1292266605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1292266621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but NOTE, I *still* refuse to have anything in ñscapegoat be able to have the same file name but different contents
< 1292266628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agree, I don't see a reason to do that
< 1292266631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'll never shut up about that :)
< 1292266654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the only remaining thing I can't figure out how to do without that is how to identify "the current working scratch space", and I'm sure I'll figure that out
< 1292266665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(perhaps it doesn't even have to exist)
< 1292266670 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I think it works the other way round
< 1292266679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292266684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you ideally want is for the working directory to implicitly be a branch
< 1292266693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :referring to "the changes that happen to be in this directory right now"
< 1292266703 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only tricky part there is figuring out what its name is
< 1292266706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: actually, I think the VCS should not even care about the current working directory unless you tell it to commit it
< 1292266713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(perhaps not platonically, but practically)
< 1292266726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's just, the VCS has to know what patch your working directory is applied to
< 1292266728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i.e., its parent
< 1292266734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and all the changes since
< 1292266736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so we have to figure out a way to look that up
< 1292266741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which I'm not sure how to do
< 1292266749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because we can't have łscapegoat/current-parent
< 1292266758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in favour of editor integration so every change automatically makes a patch, then committing is just grouping them into a larger patch
< 1292266779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think I'm for that in theory, but strongly against in practice due to efficiency and disk space concerns
< 1292266790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you mean every change as in every keypress
< 1292266791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weren't you writing an editor that worked like that?
< 1292266798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe not /quite/ to that level
< 1292266804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, sort of
< 1292266807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every save would be good enough for most practical purposes
< 1292266812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: my editor just pushed saving one level lower
< 1292266814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and let the rest cascade
< 1292266830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, it's nice to be able to cherrypick and organise each change
< 1292266835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm not sure that's actually practical
< 1292266838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, whatever
< 1292266847 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lack of sensible cherrypicking is one of the things I dislike most about git, btw
< 1292266854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you can do it, but it's much worse than darcs or scapegoat
< 1292266857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the only thing that needs to be figured out, really, is how to figure out what the parent of the current working directory is
< 1292266867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1292266880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can't have Ωscapegoat/current-parent, as I said
< 1292266897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that violates the One Filename, One Contents (Modulo Hash Collisions) Principle
< 1292266901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TODO: give that principle a better name
< 1292266905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*One Possible Content
< 1292266935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm... ReiserFS, were it still maintained (heh) would be perfect for scapegoat
< 1292266950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: since, it's going to have a *huge* number of files, most of them very small
< 1292266967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully, filesystems with the same advantages as ReiserFS in that area are popping up
< 1292266972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ext4, to a degree, and btrfs (grr Oracle)
< 1292266979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing that worries me is the files-per-directory limit
< 1292266988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that many filesystems have
< 1292266994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it crashed NAO a while ago, for instance)
< 1292266996 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not use a non-file backing?
< 1292267003 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather
< 1292267010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: for trivial ®scapegoat merging
< 1292267013 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consolidate the data in some db locally
< 1292267017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope.
< 1292267018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: conceptually, that works fine with scapegoat, as does any other sort of backing store
< 1292267020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not happening :)
< 1292267026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it defeats the esofeature that elliott most wants for it
< 1292267027 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay, but is it actually practical to not do so
< 1292267039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sure, it'd just lose an important feature
< 1292267046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it may be eso, but I think it's valuable
< 1292267050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, indeed
< 1292267054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eso != useless
< 1292267060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there is a strong correlation
< 1292267060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for instance, having to run a special VCS-specific server turns a lot of people off
< 1292267066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do insist that it's an esofeature, though
< 1292267067 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1292267075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this way, anything that can distribute a file tree -- including tarballs! -- works for pulling
< 1292267078 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, rsync backup on .minecraft takes AGES due to the many small files. Fewer larger files would end up less spread out over the disk
< 1292267080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the copy-with-cp, rather than filesystem store)
< 1292267087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's rsync's fault
< 1292267090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: just tar it up beforehand
< 1292267097 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no it isn't. tar would be just as slow
< 1292267104 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because 90% of the time is seeking
< 1292267106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's tar's fault
< 1292267109 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it isn't in cache
< 1292267111 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you fail
< 1292267117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nope, tar fails
< 1292267135 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so what should it do to work around the required seeking?
< 1292267157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: switch you to a filesystem that stores small files inline
< 1292267163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like btrfs (I think ext4 does it too)
< 1292267167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (or buy you an SSD)
< 1292267175 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, using ext4 or jfs on that partition iirc
< 1292267183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wrt files-per-directory,
< 1292267187 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no I couldn't. The backing disk is 2 x 1 TB
< 1292267194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: easy hack: just do store/1, store/2, store/3, ..., store/55555555
< 1292267202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and also have a prefix _
< 1292267208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: store/_1 is another hierarchy just like store/
< 1292267217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that'd become inefficient over time
< 1292267228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd a) end up with duplicate stores for the same hash, in, say, /1 and /2
< 1292267229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you think you could ever use up (max inodes in directory)^2?
< 1292267230 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, better, use the two first letters of the hash as prefix
< 1292267237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think store/_1 would ever actually happen
< 1292267240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and b) have to lsearch all the subdirs to find a given stash
< 1292267241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh, that is a better idea, indeed
< 1292267242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mean _1
< 1292267243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps first three
< 1292267247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just mean with the numbered subdirs
< 1292267248 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like store/fa/fabajshd.whatever
< 1292267248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see what Vorpal said
< 1292267250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an actually good idea
< 1292267255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was thinking about that
< 1292267256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although let's say first three or four characters
< 1292267258 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this is a classical solution to the issue
< 1292267263 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, look at stuff like ccache for example
< 1292267264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't scale in that you need to know which size of prefix to use
< 1292267265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I know, it just didn't occur to me
< 1292267271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'd have to be fixed in advance
< 1292267280 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you could subdivide
< 1292267283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just pick the longest prefix that all of them will fit into a single dir of a filesystem we're targeting
< 1292267297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, filesystems are becoming 64-bit
< 1292267299 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if store/fa becomes too large then split it in store/fa/a/ and so on
< 1292267300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what is a good lowest-common-denominator for filesystem limits anyway? ext2?
< 1292267303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so presumably, the limit is going away
< 1292267309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd say Minix filesystem
< 1292267309 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, see what I mean?
< 1292267317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably the stupidest, simplest, most limited Unix-like filesystem there is
< 1292267321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: then you could have subdivided and nonsubdivided versions of the same system and try to merge them
< 1292267327 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh right
< 1292267335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, it doesn't *really* matter too much
< 1292267343 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, this works as long as you don't want copy on merge
< 1292267343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because we can always just define a new repository format with more subdivision
< 1292267348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm just trying to preserve your esofeature
< 1292267348 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can't those adjectives all be applied to Minix itself?
< 1292267355 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you can't copy merge then
< 1292267360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :against all possible eventualities
< 1292267364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (and that'll be the one exception to the copy-merge rule -- if the Ŧscapegoat/version files aren't equal, then you're fucked)
< 1292267378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (thankfully, you can just convert the older one)
< 1292267381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, we can make do without that exception too
< 1292267390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you do is, you use version-specific subdirs in ôscapegoat
< 1292267391 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I *do* think that using a sqlite db or such would be far more efficient
< 1292267393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you mean store everything in ¥sca- heh
< 1292267404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure, I guess, but the resulting repository would be useless
< 1292267406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, if you detect two different versions there
< 1292267408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: haha!
< 1292267411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you convert it all to the newer formar
< 1292267413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*format
< 1292267415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not for scapegoat itself, that's for sure
< 1292267422 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well for the metadata I meant
< 1292267422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also would *completely* ruin my esofeature
< 1292267431 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sqlite isn't good for storing large blobs
< 1292267431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fair enough, then
< 1292267436 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and yes it would
< 1292267439 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or not
< 1292267442 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fuse-sqlite !
< 1292267446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: rugh
< 1292267447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ugh
< 1292267449 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :D
< 1292267455 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, note: I was not serious
< 1292267471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: does that /exist/?
< 1292267477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the concept, though
< 1292267496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anyway, sqlite is relational
< 1292267503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and scapegoat's database isn't even remotely relational
< 1292267515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most I'll even *think* about caving into would be an object database
< 1292267520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, freeform object database
< 1292267523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a JSON database or something
< 1292267541 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: does that /exist/? <--- not that I know
< 1292267549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not too far off the NoSQL databases
< 1292267555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: as long as you could get two separate database files and do "scg db merge db1 db2" I'm *willing* to consider it.
< 1292267556 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw rugh is +5 V right?
< 1292267560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*maybe*
< 1292267560 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and rugl -5 V
< 1292267563 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think something like that exists
< 1292267564 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you use 3.3?
< 1292267569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, now I have an urge to call them databasen just to annoy all the people who come up with silly plurals for things
< 1292267570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: shaddap :P
< 1292267578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: UNICES
< 1292267585 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nongnu.org/libsqlfs/
< 1292267599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, what happened to you going home? (please don't answer this with "oops, I forgot, goodbye!", as that'll just teach me not to ask in future)
< 1292267611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that's the wrong way around, no?
< 1292267613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, I decided to stay as long as the conversation was interesting
< 1292267616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal meant mounting sqlite with FUSE, didn't he?
< 1292267623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd better think of something, then :)
< 1292267625 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, which makes no sense
< 1292267655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I didn't want to go home in rush hour
< 1292267664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: terrible idea: People are defined as the set of objects they've created.
< 1292267668 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, I strongly suspect the esofeature will kill efficiency. Adding a version number is indeed a good idea
< 1292267670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no, really, it's terrible, I'm joking)
< 1292267672 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but two hours for an interesting ontopic conversation here (if you consider esoVCSes as esoprogramming) is close to a record
< 1292267680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's not so much terrible as nonsensical
< 1292267682 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then, if you have to drop it, sad, but not much to do about
< 1292267683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, we'll see :P
< 1292267692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and impossible to enforce without some sort of public-key signing
< 1292267699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: if I can get "scg db merge db1 db2" working exactly the same way with some database, then I'll consider it
< 1292267713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I think that patch authors and the like *should* be tied to a public key, now that you mention it
< 1292267715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "scg"? that's even worse than "sg"
< 1292267724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so do I, but not to get that genuinely terrible idea working
< 1292267728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: to avoid the situation mentioned in http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/so-i-married-a-kernel-programmer
< 1292267733 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what does git's repo format look like?
< 1292267736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transcription if you won't click that:
< 1292267741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reiser: Oh dear god, please forgive me!
< 1292267744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linus: Um, hi Reiser
< 1292267748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reiser: Linus, I've done something TERRIBLE!
< 1292267754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linus: Tell me, I'm sure we can sort it out
< 1292267761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reiser: I faked a Signed-Off-By From CHRISTOPH HELLWIG!
< 1292267766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*from
< 1292267778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...irrelevant material elided...]
< 1292267781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: um, a mess
< 1292267799 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but fast iirc?
< 1292267801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :git is a versioned filesystem that, as of late, has started pretending it's a version control system :)
< 1292267816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: scg was a legitimate brain-typo
< 1292267818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for spg
< 1292267827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spg may be a bad name if it's hard to remember
< 1292267828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spg doesn't sound very scapegoat-y
< 1292267830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292267849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's just call the binary (insert non-ASCII character here)
< 1292267851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if cpressey were here, he'd be adamant that we call the implementation something different from the specification
< 1292267861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think that's a terrible idea in this case :)
< 1292267870 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw, how will you store stuff. I mean, incremental diff? What I'm wondering about is how long a checkout from scratch would take
< 1292267870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better, let's make the binary "scapegoat", and symlink it from /every/ non-ASCII Unicode character
< 1292267874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't have to remember which is its
< 1292267879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: brilliant!
< 1292267884 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for a repo with many many many commits (think, linux source code)
< 1292267891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ask ais523 to summarise the patch format in one line ...
< 1292267894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully he's okay with doing that :P
< 1292267899 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not with clog down
< 1292267902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really a patch at all, it's...something
< 1292267907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what should I grep for?
< 1292267908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be bound to mess something up
< 1292267910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have your logs
< 1292267911 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is up isn't it?
< 1292267916 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clog, hi!
< 1292267919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : anyway, you can think of the lines, with unique IDs (which don't have to be consecutive integers, I just don't want to keep typing long hashlike strings) as "start of file:0", "end of file:1", "add 'a' between 0 and 1:2", "add 'b' between 2 and 1:3", "add 'c' between 3 and 1:4"
< 1292267926 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, this client has a lot of scrollback
< 1292267932 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181137083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292267933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's back up, wasn't when the conversation started
< 1292267940 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292267956 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh is this the fractal one discussed here some time ago?
< 1292267962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yse
< 1292267963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yes
< 1292267969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: scapegoat is the perfect version control system for ElliottOS
< 1292267974 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, bound to be HUGE amount of data then
< 1292267978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm no
< 1292267984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: tell him why he's wrong, i'm way too lazy
< 1292267988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fractal nature isn't even the major feature, it's just there to simplify things
< 1292268001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: one large piece of information in many small pieces is still much the same amount of information
< 1292268002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why there'd be more data than a diff, really
< 1292268012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe slight overhead from the fact that they're objects
< 1292268023 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true, but does it store it per line or at a more granular level?
< 1292268025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if you stored every character separately, sure...
< 1292268029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: both
< 1292268042 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that sounds like it would have some overhead to me
< 1292268045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why scapegoat is perfect for ElliottOS: there's only one language to deal with, so it can be totally semantic about the storage; there's no files, but scapegoat works fine without files
< 1292268046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. :P
< 1292268055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: indeed
< 1292268068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but say it doubles or triples the overhead, that's not going to be amazingly large as VCSes go
< 1292268097 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how large is linux-2.6.git again? Some hundred MB iirc?
< 1292268115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: internally, you could always just store, say, lines as the lowest thing and then address codepoints as positions in that line, no?
< 1292268123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "again"? you expect me to have it memorised, and to have told you before?
< 1292268141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed
< 1292268150 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm I thought you complained about the size some months ago in here. Maybe it was someone else
< 1292268152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect an efficient implementation will actually store entire recent trees
< 1292268162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid having to reconstruct them on every edit
< 1292268162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in fact, as a storage optimisation, you could not store lines separately
< 1292268165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all of them, just a few
< 1292268168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that is, you store them in the patch
< 1292268171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and just attach a hash to them
< 1292268173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is all storage optimisation
< 1292268184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and then you have some kind of index that says "for the line with hash FOO, see patch BAR"
< 1292268186 0 :Zuu_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Zuu
< 1292268187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1292268187 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so you get one file per patch?
< 1292268195 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in the store
< 1292268200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: of course, in an ideal scenario, the store library will handle all this :)
< 1292268202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you just tell it to
< 1292268222 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what if two authors made the exact same change, will they get the same filename?
< 1292268233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hehe... ais523, tell him about identical changes!
< 1292268234 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, (that is, does the hashed bit include the author?)
< 1292268237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, it wouldn't be the exact same as it wouldn't have the same author
< 1292268254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but the line they append would be the same
< 1292268258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it would simply be the hash of the line they add
< 1292268261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, there wouldn't be a conflict unless you asked for one, because it'd automerge the changes
< 1292268267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right?
< 1292268279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, you mean hash individual source lines as well as patches themselves, as an optimisation?
< 1292268293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure, and destination lines too
< 1292268294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just an idea
< 1292268294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd probably be a pessimisation, on the basis that the lines are likely to be generally shorter than the hashes
< 1292268297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably
< 1292268299 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like space-time tradeoff
< 1292268317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really care how slow it goes as long as it's faster than darcs, and doesn't increase exponentially
< 1292268323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose, what you could do is, if the line is shorter than a hash, store the line; if it's longer than or equal to a hash, store the hash
< 1292268332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: meh, seems like a waste of time
< 1292268332 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does darcs increase exponentially?
< 1292268335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is a Vorpal-level microoptimisation at this stage
< 1292268342 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also, what about super-exponentially?
< 1292268345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: probably not, but it's so slow, who can tell?
< 1292268348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: in the worst case, yes, but that case is kind-of hard to trigger nowadays
< 1292268354 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, XD
< 1292268364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darcs is pretty nice platonically, but *really* bad for computers
< 1292268369 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1292268375 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it never been slow for me
< 1292268377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not convinced patch theory actually /does/ much other than look mathematical
< 1292268381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sorear looked into it, and decided the way it handled conflicts made no sense, mathematically
< 1292268384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: dude, you use bzr
< 1292268387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzr is the slowest VCS out there
< 1292268390 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I used darcs too
< 1292268390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas sg conflict handling is very sensible
< 1292268393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so slow as to be painfully unusable, and everyone agrees
< 1292268398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your opinion on speed is biased :P
< 1292268407 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh, it works fine for me. I never had issues with speed.
< 1292268424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if the order you apply the patches in matter, or a patch has nowhere to apply, that's a conflict; you resolve it by reverting both patches and adding a new one)
< 1292268424 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sure, hg is a bit faster, but bzr is not annoyingly slow
< 1292268437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in matters
< 1292268446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also, reverts are stored as just "revert patch X"
< 1292268463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both for semantic reasons, and because that's all the info you need, you don't need to store what was reverted
< 1292268481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, patches should be able to have multiple authors
< 1292268492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for instance, if you merge two identical changes, who's the author? I don't think it should be "whoever told scapegoat to merge"
< 1292268495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're the *committer*
< 1292268498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't see how they're the author
< 1292268499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292268509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the author is both of the people who had the wise idea to, I don't know, add "foo" to the README
< 1292268510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'd say the author of the merge is in fact scapegoat itself
< 1292268517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, yes, but that's not helpful to see in repositories
< 1292268517 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is this about blame based bit?
< 1292268518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are two authors in its dependencies
< 1292268526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you see the diff that adds foo, you should see both authors who did it
< 1292268532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: admittedly, for more complex merges, I'm not sure
< 1292268539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it should probably be the person who ran scapegoat, in that case
< 1292268543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as scapegoat is basically acting as their automatic helper
< 1292268553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, the great thing is, all the info's available both ways
< 1292268559 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292268566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292268573 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so what is the blame bit?
< 1292268585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thing I don't like about git: if you have a merge conflict, it puts it in the actual file being merged
< 1292268587 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exclude some author simply?
< 1292268592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the author should be scapegoat, incidentally, to avoid identical conflict resolutions of identical patches propagated ad infinitum
< 1292268594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, of course, makes it a completely meaningless file to whatever tools you use it with
< 1292268598 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, most VCS does that iirc
< 1292268603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's bad
< 1292268608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, wait
< 1292268609 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, quite
< 1292268613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if a patch can have multiple authors
< 1292268615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just do authors = []
< 1292268618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where [] is the empty set
< 1292268619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292268641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'twould also let you submit patches anonymously
< 1292268654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, disagree
< 1292268663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: such a path doesn't have no authors, it has an anonymous author
< 1292268665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I'm unsure on that myself
< 1292268675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and what of the GPG key?
< 1292268687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, anonymous patches wouldn't have one
< 1292268691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: an anonymous author should be something like "Anonymous ", though
< 1292268705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, .invalid is actually in RFCs!)
< 1292268707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know
< 1292268724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :signing should perhaps be optional
< 1292268733 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can sign a commit rather than the individual lines in it, for instance
< 1292268737 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why email
< 1292268744 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ais523: do either of you have any plan to implement this  btw?
< 1292268746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: perhaps...
< 1292268749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, at least I do
< 1292268753 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/  / /
< 1292268755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could set the default branch rules to reject unsigned patches
< 1292268758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't before round about now
< 1292268761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I do now
< 1292268776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I had very vague plans which never got anywhere, and a lot of more urgent things to do
< 1292268785 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah right
< 1292268786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think even gcc-bf is above scapegoat on my list of things on indefinite hold
< 1292268798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most things work better with someone to work on them with, though
< 1292268807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but if I start working on it, it better shoot near the top of that list, I don't wanna do all this myself :P
< 1292268833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this may be a bad time to do it, then; you could try in December instead
< 1292268837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, January
< 1292268855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha, you vastly overestimate how quickly I work on things
< 1292268862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'll probably spend the next few months puttering about with key-value stores
< 1292268875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, it wouldn't need to be near the top of the list, halfway down would be just fine
< 1292268905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: by start working on it, I mean for actual real
< 1292268909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, implementing the actual patches and algorithms
< 1292268942 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, key value stores are easy aren't they?
< 1292268948 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as in, a solved problem really
< 1292268948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not this kind of key value store
< 1292268960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's hash-addressed, append-only, and *everything* goes through that mechanism
< 1292268973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has to be fast, space-efficient, and capable of supporting huge, huge trees
< 1292268973 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh and does it need to copy merge?
< 1292268975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I mean huge
< 1292268976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "append-only" always reminds me of "write-only"
< 1292268978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's also recursive
< 1292268985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, sure, but that's already handled by the hash-based part
< 1292268990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why recursive, btw?
< 1292268991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, "immutable" isn't quite right, obviously
< 1292268998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: recursive simply because objects contain other objects
< 1292269004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: patches contain changes
< 1292269006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: branches contain patches
< 1292269007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc.
< 1292269013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean, patches have authors
< 1292269021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if it wasn't recursive, you'd have to say patch1_author1 or something
< 1292269023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't they just refer to the hashes of the other objects, though?
< 1292269025 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can it be self-recursive?
< 1292269038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, sure, but that's recursivity
< 1292269042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just optimised out, into pointers
< 1292269046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: wat? you mean cyclic?
< 1292269049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see
< 1292269051 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes!
< 1292269051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose there's no reason it couldn't point to itself
< 1292269055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you aren't storing plaintext, but arbitrary objects
< 1292269060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew I was missing something
< 1292269065 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this patch depends on itself!
< 1292269069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, perhaps not totally arbitary, but close
< 1292269084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and, I mean, you'd want to say { insert_reference(patch, "some_relevant_thing", anobj); } and have it automatically insert a hash reference
< 1292269096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean, I'm not storing arbitrary objects, it's more like...
< 1292269096 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, this would modify the hash right
< 1292269111 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which means you would have to find a self-hash kind of
< 1292269116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm storing a key-value store, which can have, as its values, either strings, or key-value stores; which can have, as their values, ...
< 1292269124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's like YAML with all the features for things like mutually recursive pointers
< 1292269126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: looks like I'm not supporting mutual references, then!
< 1292269130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except, in the filesystem rather than a serialisation
< 1292269134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: YAML has those, actually
< 1292269138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know
< 1292269142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I was referencing
< 1292269144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but, not really; I mean, I'm literally just storing:
< 1292269144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that it does
< 1292269149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Foo = String | Map String Foo
< 1292269153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really
< 1292269157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, fair enough
< 1292269160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that, values of the latter are replaced by the hashes of the relevant objects
< 1292269164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JSON, then, rather than YAML
< 1292269166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when serialised
< 1292269169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: JSON has integers!
< 1292269172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and arrays
< 1292269185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I suppose
< 1292269196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scapegoat would like unordered sets
< 1292269202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: easy
< 1292269207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: to insert into a set, do
< 1292269217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set[hash(obj)] = "irrelevant"
< 1292269222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: or rather, set[obj] = ...
< 1292269226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it gets auto-hashed
< 1292269229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1292269235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1292269236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually
< 1292269236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the old Perl trick of setting them to 1
< 1292269239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set[hash(obj)] = obj
< 1292269245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, you can't have a pointer as a key, only a string
< 1292269250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's from a string to a pointer
< 1292269250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right
< 1292269254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just, they happen to be encoded almost identically
< 1292269256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd probably want to optimise that case
< 1292269259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, yes
< 1292269261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(key = value with different encoding)
< 1292269293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I bet GitHub are worried about having to store N copies of many, many commits
< 1292269295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of forked projects
< 1292269302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas scapegoathub doesn't have to worry about that in the slightest :)
< 1292269313 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, doesn't git support shared repo data?
< 1292269317 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, even bzr does that
< 1292269318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :github may use a similar form of centralised hash database
< 1292269326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not that i know of, probably if you do links
< 1292269328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given how git works and what they do, they'd be fools not to
< 1292269334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nah, they use actual git
< 1292269341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: afaik
< 1292269362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's your opinion on fastforwards in git?
< 1292269367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what are they?
< 1292269368 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, shared repo is one feature I love with bzr
< 1292269372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've probably heard of them and just forgotten it
< 1292269386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: in scapegoat, that's easy; you just symlink the ßscapegoat dirs
< 1292269387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they're a merge when one side made no changes
< 1292269398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case, there's no commit message for the merge, it just copies across
< 1292269400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and it's guaranteed to never clash, if they're the same repo, just with branches and the like
< 1292269416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: erm, how can there be any requirement to merge if one side made no changes/
< 1292269418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*changes?
< 1292269419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's technically a merge-rebase, just a special case that comes up a lot
< 1292269420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because it's git
< 1292269427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're merging changed with unchanged
< 1292269435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember, git cares about snapshots, not diffs
< 1292269435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: as in, if the server is A->B->C, and your tree is A->B->C->D, I don't see why it doesn't just turn into A->B->C->D
< 1292269441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it does, that's a fastforward
< 1292269448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some git users really dislike them
< 1292269451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in fact, scapegoat's logic already has it doing that; the point of divergance is C, so a branch for D is created, attached to C
< 1292269457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it tries to merge with the Official Branch
< 1292269460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is -- surprise! -- C
< 1292269460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I think scapegoat handles the issue great
< 1292269465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and merging X with X is a nop
< 1292269468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it just succeeds
< 1292269480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *I think elliott's mergeless commit system in scapegoat handles the issue great
< 1292269480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1292269481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :git's model really screws up that case badly, thoguh
< 1292269488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I promise not to get *too* egotistical about that!
< 1292269490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by making it really conceputally confusing
< 1292269506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: git made so much more sense when it was a low-level distributed filesystem, and tools like cogito build a VCS on top of it
< 1292269514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then everyone went WAAH! MAKE GIT ITSELF USABLE!
< 1292269517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now it's insane
< 1292269537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can I make a confession? I stole the every-commit-branches-and-merges-are-optional thing
< 1292269543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PVCS, an old CVS-alike
< 1292269552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"However PVCS can also be configured to support several users simultaneously attempting to edit the file; in this case the second commiter (chronologically speaking) will have a branch created for him/her so that both modifications, instead of conflicting, will appear as parallel histories for the same file. This is unlike CVS and Subversion where the second commiter needs to first merge the changes via the update command and then resolve conflic
< 1292269552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ts (when they exist) before actually committing."
< 1292269558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, on the other hand, PVCS was primarily locking-based
< 1292269565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and didn't have a nice auto-merging algorithm for the common case
< 1292269565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so nyah
< 1292269572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hg works a bit like that too
< 1292269593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, except that it treats heads and branches differently, and having multiple of the former is a huge pain that you try and rectify immediately
< 1292269595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, really, makes little sense
< 1292269597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you think I'd design a VCS without scouting out the competition?)
< 1292269610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what was that GNU VCS called?
< 1292269613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: arch?
< 1292269615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tla
< 1292269616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it
< 1292269622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the insane one that we tried and failed to set up ages ago
< 1292269625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1292269630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have you looked at Monotone?
< 1292269633 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1292269635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's similarly crazy in over-hash-use :)
< 1292269639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and very, very slow)
< 1292269652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in fact, it met all of Linus' criteria for what the new kernel VCS must be *except* for being fast
< 1292269656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it failed very hard at :)
< 1292269722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have you looked at Codeville? good luck doing that, the site is gone now
< 1292269727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't
< 1292269741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the name is worryingly reminiscent of Farmville
< 1292269751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I fear has stolen a potentially useful name fragment
< 1292269753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's Ross Cohen & Bram Cohen (bittorrent inventor)'s, circa 2005, still used at BitTorrent, Inc.
< 1292269768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: basically, it was very much focused on never having to merge anything manually again
< 1292269775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[It uses an innovative merging algorithm called the "Codeville merge". A new merge algorithm called "Precise Codeville" or "pcvd" merge is under development.]]
< 1292269776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and apparently,
< 1292269783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[The SCCS file format uses a storage technique called interleaved deltas (or the weave). This storage technique is now considered by many revision control system developers[who?] as key to some advanced merging techniques, such as the "Precise Codeville" ("pcdv") merge.]]
< 1292269808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, #revctrl exists on freenode, but I haven't found it a particularly worthwhile place
< 1292269812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bad, just not very interesting
< 1292269814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, the best thing about Wikipedia cleanup tags is that they identify the source of code straight off
< 1292269823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Topic for #revctrl is: You are in a maze of twisty little version control systems, all different: aegis bazaar codeville cvs darcs git mercurial monotone rcs revc svk svn tla vesta || wiki: http://revctrl.org/ || mailing list: http://lists.zooko.com/mailman/listinfo/revctrl || logs: http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/revctrl or http://www.scooter.cx/~mozbot/ || see channels of specific systems for hel
< 1292269823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*source of text
< 1292269828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh
< 1292269844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: svk is truly a sight to behold; it's written in perl, and based on svn
< 1292269844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, is that topic completed as "help" or "hell"?
< 1292269848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it turns svn into a destributed system
< 1292269855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's completed as hel
< 1292269858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1292269894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1292269907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so would scapegoat come with, like, a library of merging techniques?
< 1292269915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, a bunch of "conditions for this working => actions to take" rules
< 1292269922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so
< 1292269928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, more likely it'd be a library of patch types
< 1292269931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm *fairly* sure it's doomed to end up with a programming language inside it.
< 1292269937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much like darcs attempts but never really got started at
< 1292269938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What with branch specification, this, ...
< 1292269952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(branch specification = e.g., the formula that @tip is defined to be)
< 1292269954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like the search-and-replace patch would be so much better if they were actually semantic
< 1292269975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: interesting idea, but i'd only attempt it with a language plugin handy
< 1292269978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what? I fear we'll end up with editor : Emacs :: VCS : scapegoat
< 1292269980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a very good one at that
< 1292269983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean, with the language plugins
< 1292269993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, I fear that too; I'm going to try and stop you if you start making it *too* flexible
< 1292270002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for reasons of both speed and sanity :)
< 1292270005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and implementability
< 1292270022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: can I at least have a Towers of Hanoi simulator?
< 1292270027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, fine
< 1292270033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Feather revision control system: every change is applied retroactively, so there are no changes to track. Problem solved!
< 1292270044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was joking
< 1292270053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know... I was too (re Feather)
< 1292270066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't make me get my head around Feather right now
< 1292270071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292270080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it would be fun if you could somehow set up a bunch of branches such that merging them would end up solving a towers of hanoi game in the process
< 1292270091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (thing to make ABSOLUTELY SURE OF: merging always halts)
< 1292270095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like solving Sokoban inside apt?
< 1292270099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yse
< 1292270101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yes
< 1292270105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sudoku
< 1292270109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sokoban really would be impressive
< 1292270117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking that :P
< 1292270148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you know, I've never heard of any really innovative VCS ideas
< 1292270155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you're the only real innovator in the field :P
< 1292270172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that could almost be the motto of #esoteric
< 1292270211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but at least programming languages have active academia..e? academiae?
< 1292270225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the only VCS-related topic I can think of that gets papers is regular-style merging algorithms
< 1292270313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1292270345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it occurs to me that the loss of þscapegoat/names is rather disasterous
< 1292270352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as, for instance, you no longer know what the tip is
< 1292270352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1292270353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, you do
< 1292270360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since @tip always means one thing
< 1292270369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in fact, @tip shouldn't be in þscapegoat/names, because it should be constant
< 1292270374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you used þ earlier!
< 1292270377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :referring to the Official Branch definition
< 1292270379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: whoops, sorry
< 1292270388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm running out of alt-gr
< 1292270392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*§scapegoat
< 1292270394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I was using dead keys
< 1292270427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: arguably, you might actually want to redefine what the default checked-out branch is... but that argument sounds flimsy to me
< 1292270428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and really confusing
< 1292270440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the repository can configure everything about the VCS, you can never be sure how the VCS will act
< 1292270443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't sound like a good policy to me
< 1292270452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, repos themselves don't have a "checked-out branch", platonically
< 1292270457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just hints for which branches might be interesting
< 1292270480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, yes, but consider @tip
< 1292270500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if we say in the spec that @tip is, platonically, [some hash], referring to the formula for the Official Branch
< 1292270508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then it always behaves consistently
< 1292270515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if we don't, and a repo can redefine @tip
< 1292270522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(@tip being the implicit argument to, e.g. "gimme-a-cwd")
< 1292270528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the VCS could behave unpredictably
< 1292270548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, "the Official Branch" needs to be bounded somehow
< 1292270564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, by the hashes in the tarball in question
< 1292270570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: basically, I'm just saying that some names should be built into scapegoat, not looked up in the repository
< 1292270583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and @tip is one of them, it should always point to one single formula that is blessed, by word of god, to be the formula for working out the Official Branch
< 1292270608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, should repo stores contain only patches that are vaguely relevant to the repo?
< 1292270623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you're a distributor, then yes
< 1292270635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think we should have a garbage-collect command that gets rid of all unreferenced objects
< 1292270653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ooh, risky in a sense
< 1292270654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (note: git has this, and people say it's a design flaw in git; c'est la vie)
< 1292270669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, only in that you could potentially lose patches that aren't referenced anywhere, if everyone in the world does it
< 1292270671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more so than in git, on the basis that you'd need to define, right now, all branches that might later be interesting
< 1292270674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how would you look at such a patch anyway?
< 1292270678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to specify its hash directly
< 1292270686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a branch that matches it
< 1292270689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, it wouldn't go that insane
< 1292270702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe it would
< 1292270711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, how about this for logic:
< 1292270725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: everything not reachable from @tip, and that doesn't have a nickname, is removed
< 1292270726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: except...
< 1292270730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: forwards from @tip too
< 1292270733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd get the temporary branches
< 1292270742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could work
< 1292270750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but should not be something that people run regularaly
< 1292270752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*regularly
< 1292270754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not sure how you'd look forwards from @tip, though :)
< 1292270756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed
< 1292270773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a case to be made for making patches never deletable ever, which is to protect the VCS from clueless users to some extent
< 1292270776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screwing things up
< 1292270808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well
< 1292270814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: consider scapegoathub, with its One Gigantic Store
< 1292270835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: when you ask for a tarball of Ðscapegoat for a certain project from scapegoathub
< 1292270841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how does it determine what subset to give you?
< 1292270842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, downloading the whole thing and asking for @tip would be stupid
< 1292270856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: however it determines it: that's the algorithm to figure out what objects you need to keep in the store
< 1292270857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything else can go
< 1292270873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two possibilities; ask for @tip for a subset of patches, or ask for a different nickname
< 1292270892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, you could just get @tip's referent itself and its dependencies
< 1292270893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, say you want to download every branch
< 1292270895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a git clone
< 1292270895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you wouldn't get branches, etc
< 1292270902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how would you do that?
< 1292270907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for every branch, you'd need a way to know what project they belonged to, I suppose
< 1292270910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (this includes unnamed branches, say if there's branches past @tip that haven't been merged yet)
< 1292270928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, suppose I make readme-alpha.txt inside my intercal repository
< 1292270933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a new file that has no relation to anything else
< 1292270944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :htf is the VCS meant to know that it belongs to INTERCAL rather than some other random project?
< 1292270964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, / itself is an entity, right?
< 1292270967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like lines and files
< 1292270970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, I've just realised that
< 1292270973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so it says that you append a file to /
< 1292270980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and that / happens to be intercal's
< 1292270983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I only just noticed
< 1292270989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, you can even do an SVN
< 1292270996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and grab a portion of a directory tree
< 1292271000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292271007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: except that, they wouldn't have scapegoat directories
< 1292271011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's eww
< 1292271018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot SVN did that
< 1292271024 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could grab a portion, but a different way
< 1292271028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then calculate @tip for that portion
< 1292271030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm happy now
< 1292271030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: of course, directories MUST be entities, to track empty directories
< 1292271039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is *not* an unheard of usecase; I've wanted to do it before!)
< 1292271047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this solves both problems at once
< 1292271067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better, you can make two projects into one large one just by creating a new / *below* the existing two
< 1292271073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and moving them into place
< 1292271095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, the concept of "create entirely new repo" exists, but also "merge repo" and "split repo", neither of which is well-defined in, say, darcs
< 1292271110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not merge as in VCS merge, but merge as in what's considered one project)
< 1292271111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: holy shit, you can merge two /s
< 1292271114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1292271121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that is, if you have two separate projects that don't have any clashing filenames
< 1292271125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can merge them into one, new /
< 1292271133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is beautiful.
< 1292271134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if they did, you could
< 1292271137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd just have conflicts
< 1292271150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, yes, I mean you could merge them into one branch...patch...thing
< 1292271152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one state
< 1292271160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a better name for this concept
< 1292271197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "tree"
< 1292271199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what git calls it, IIRC
< 1292271203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest we call it an (insert random non-ASCII character here)
< 1292271210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "root" is probably an unambiguous name
< 1292271214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, a single root
< 1292271215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: git's name is more for a snapshot of the entire state, as that's what it thinks of it as
< 1292271225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"by default, scapegoat checks out the root identified by @tip"
< 1292271226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it could be the root, a leaf, or even one of the brnaches
< 1292271230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*branches
< 1292271232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not talking tree-wise!
< 1292271235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I just meant root as in /
< 1292271245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is we have two conceptual trees and they go in different directions
< 1292271247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: agh, the problem with trees is that they take up so much terminology :)
< 1292271259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about "twig"?
< 1292271281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I can't see myself calling the gcc source tree a "twig".
< 1292271299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here: let's call them "turtles"
< 1292271301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: file tree... file root... ugh
< 1292271306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're mostly defined in terms of other turtles
< 1292271308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: okay, we'll call them turtles. *for now*
< 1292271311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not forever :P
< 1292271314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can add new turtles beneath, if you like
< 1292271330 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you add turtles in the bottom or on the top?
< 1292271361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both
< 1292271380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's turtles all the way up
< 1292271417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how come we've unified most of the disparate concepts in VCSes and this /still/ feels more complicated? :)
< 1292271435 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, have you been esovcsing?
< 1292271446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yes, except it's turning out to be disgustingly useful
< 1292271452 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuck!
< 1292271455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because it's alien
< 1292271458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm considering disowning it and putting it up for adoption
< 1292271464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not really)
< 1292271472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put it this way, what's simpler, BF or C?
< 1292271482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: BF, of course
< 1292271497 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disagree
< 1292271503 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: really?
< 1292271528 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes!
< 1292271536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bear in mind I teach C, and have come to the conclusion that BF would probably be easier to teach
< 1292271539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: coppro uses C++, he's crazy
< 1292271548 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when was the last time you wrote an operating system in BF?
< 1292271549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although admittedly, it isn't normally used to write kernel-mode keyloggers
< 1292271557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that's got nothing to do with the simplicity of a language ...
< 1292271582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C runtime model: flat memory, file system, arithmetic, stack ...
< 1292271592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF runtime model: flat tape, increment, decrement
< 1292271603 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: has anyone? yet?
< 1292271605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok, also: input stream, output stream, but that's still far more simple)
< 1292271608 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: to my knowledge, no
< 1292271620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so how is C simpler?
< 1292271632 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just said
< 1292271644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no, you didn't
< 1292271647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you asked an irrelevant question
< 1292271673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, I fear scapegoat goes the other way, it's a C to existing VCS's BF
< 1292271688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: perhaps
< 1292271703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's more like Lisp or Haskell vs C, really
< 1292271704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, BF has all that disparate [>+<-] and [>+>+<<-]>[<+>-] stuff
< 1292271712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas C just uses assignment
< 1292271724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we're looking at it from a C perspective, and it seems like *such* a complicated gob of memory management and pointers, but at the same time, really elegant
< 1292271731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now say C = git, hg, etc.
< 1292271742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that's another step on a similar scale
< 1292271744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, this view is just an artefact of looking from C
< 1292271750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we looked from something more objective, it'd look simpler
< 1292271792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: time to make your head hurt: what is the most true-to-the-model name of the command commonly called "commit" in other VCSes?
< 1292271798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, now imperative stuff and side effects are all the same, everything's a function in the mathematical sense, flow control's just another function
< 1292271804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why do I have to use monads?
< 1292271817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "commit" is ambiguous in other VCSes
< 1292271823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., the one that inserts a new branch off from the branch of the current working directory
< 1292271826 0 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn37-232.vpn.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292271826 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea:
< 1292271828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then tries to merge it with @tip
< 1292271831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what do you call it?
< 1292271834 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should actually do something with the ideas we come up with here
< 1292271836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :git commit approximately equals naming a set of hashes
< 1292271842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, doesn't try to merge with tip
< 1292271850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just inserts a new branch off from the branch of the current working directory
< 1292271855 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ironically, we will just ignore this idea)
< 1292271856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I'm already planning to implement it.
< 1292271860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a serious discussion, actually
< 1292271870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :git push is approximately equal to scapegoat make-the-other-side-aware-of
< 1292271877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and-tell-it-to-accept-these
< 1292271877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the "merge with all branches >= the one this is diverged from" is what happens on a default push
< 1292271883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "push" is a pretty true name for that
< 1292271889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: perhaps
< 1292271899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: with scapegoat, there's "give this store all the hashes we've got that it hasn't"
< 1292271900 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scapegoat is too long to type
< 1292271902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but that's a low-level command
< 1292271912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and you're more likely to want it to do "merge with all branches >= the one this is diverged from" automatically afterwards
< 1292271916 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blargh econ 101
< 1292271918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it's going to be sg or spg or something
< 1292271923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, the main semantic action is "tell the other side to whitelist these patches"
< 1292271926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like mercurial is hg
< 1292271936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right, it's just -- you know the commit logic I came up with?
< 1292271939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292271941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in the Vorp/Orcl situation
< 1292271949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whitelisting the patches does that automatically, is the brilliant thing
< 1292271965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they didn't need whitelisting, push would be a no-op, it'd figure out they existed automatically, somehow
< 1292271969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, it's obviously "sg sync"
< 1292271970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so "sg push" = "sg send" + "sg whitelist"
< 1292271977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where send is just
< 1292271982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"send all the hashes that we've got and the remote server doesn't"
< 1292271988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, sync's a good name for that
< 1292271996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: except, sync feels like it should be two-way
< 1292272004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so let's say that sg sync is, conceptually, sg send + sg recv
< 1292272007 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and shouldn't it?
< 1292272008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just, optimised so it does both at once
< 1292272019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and then "sg push" = "sg send" + "sg whitelist" or something
< 1292272021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1292272022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually
< 1292272023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like
< 1292272023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, send and receive aren't useful operations, you'll get the patch eventually anyway
< 1292272030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sg push" = "sg recv" + "sg whitelist" + "sg send"
< 1292272035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't not receive patches, conceptually, you just don't whitelist them
< 1292272038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure they are, it's the only time where actual data is transferred :)
< 1292272044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they are implementation details
< 1292272046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in this case
< 1292272049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the fact that you might not care about the existence of non-whitelisted patch is an implementation detail)
< 1292272054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, oh I see
< 1292272058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but important ones, ones that you couldn't get away from without completely redesigning the internet
< 1292272059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we want to give the implementation details an actual name
< 1292272063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1292272109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so, e.g., sg push would end up pulling down everything that's happened lately, try and merge your current branch with all the ones >= your current branch's parent (this is my commit logic), and then it would send the result back off
< 1292272113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something along those lines
< 1292272125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that'd be
< 1292272127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ sg recv
< 1292272128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ sg whietlist
< 1292272129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*whitelist
< 1292272132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ sg send
< 1292272132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or similar
< 1292272141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except probably keeping the same network connection for recv/send)
< 1292272149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does that sound about right?
< 1292272159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine a config setting (as in, actually ~/.scapegoat, not one of the non-ASCII dirs) would be whether to automatically send and recv on general principles
< 1292272164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what to send and recv in that case
< 1292272176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, whitelisting your patches on the remote system would need to actually send the patches
< 1292272189 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292272198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I agree with your idea
< 1292272229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the reason this feels complex is that scapegoat's model is mathematically simple, yet at odds with the way the Universe actually works
< 1292272237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's pretty eso
< 1292272242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's just, you can't possibly update your main VCS server properly without (1) knowing all the things it knows -- you have to be able to figure out the three structure; (2) merging (however it's done) your patch with everything >= its parent that it *can* merge with; and (3) giving your patches, and all effects, to the server
< 1292272249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to address that detail at some point
< 1292272255 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I am suddenly immensely interested in this concept.
< 1292272258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2) is the only bit part of the actual platonic model
< 1292272264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292272268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but (1) and (3) are required for it to be able to actually /do/ anything
< 1292272272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, indeed
< 1292272280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally, you'd have them happen automatically as much as possible
< 1292272281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: come to think of it, we should probably specify the non-platonic bits too, just at a higher layer
< 1292272282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you told it not to
< 1292272284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they're quiet important
< 1292272286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*quite
< 1292272294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, we should use a different name for it, though
< 1292272297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise we'd have incompatible implementations of the platonic model... which makes a spec rather silly
< 1292272303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it clear it's an impl, not the system itself
< 1292272323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, "Scapegoat: A Model for Distributed Version Control" vs. "Scapegoat: Implementation in Practice"
< 1292272325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that
< 1292272341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (Scapegoat's too good a name not to use for the end product)
< 1292272346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292272353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, it took ages to come up with that name
< 1292272373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, if people think the VCS malfunctions, we can just blame them for looking for someone to blame
< 1292272376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292272398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I thought for a short period of time that it sounded a bit negative and confrontational to be the name ... then I realised that MAJOR COMPANIES are saying the word "git" on a regular basis, and mentally congratulated Linus Torvalds for being such a magnificent bastard
< 1292272422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[git /'ɡɪt/
< 1292272422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Git is an extremely fast, efficient, distributed version control system ideal for the collaborative development of software.]] --GitHub homepage; now mentally substitute the real dictionary definition rather than their technical one
< 1292272433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, in actual fact, how git was named; Linus said it was named after himself)
< 1292272448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the GIMP has all sorts of issues due to its nam
< 1292272451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*name
< 1292272454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the GIMP is a really terrible name
< 1292272456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet, I doubt it's going to be changed
< 1292272471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps someone can do an Iceweasel on it
< 1292272474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thankfully, the GIMP is such a horrible program that putting people off using it is probably a good thing
< 1292272481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, I find it useful
< 1292272485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, it's useful
< 1292272493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it depends on what you're trying to use it for
< 1292272502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's just that if you made an image editor, and at every design decision, took the direct opposite of what GIMP took, you'd end up with a wonderful program
< 1292272504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the UI has got noticeably better over the last few years, but it's still quite bad
< 1292272516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they're moving to a single-window model, and I can't wait to see how they mess it up
< 1292272523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(optionally, I think)
< 1292272526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wasn't that the actual method by which certain design decisions in git were made?
< 1292272527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but who would turn it off?)
< 1292272533 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if in doubt, do the opposite of SVN?
< 1292272537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *CVS
< 1292272546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "When I say I hate CVS with a passion, I have to also say that if there are any SVN (Subversion) users in the audience, you might want to leave. Because my hatred of CVS has meant that I see Subversion as being the most pointless project ever started. The slogan of Subversion for a while was "CVS done right", or something like that, and if you start with that kind of slogan, there's nowhere you can go. There is no way to do CVS right."
< 1292272548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292272564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: incidentally, have you ever used svn?
< 1292272565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's truly awful
< 1292272567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1292272575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slow, bloated, hard to use (especially to create a repository)
< 1292272579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :badly designed ...
< 1292272586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the major thing that irritates me about it is the inability to svn log withotu an internet connection
< 1292272591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh
< 1292272601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never tried to actually create a repo, just look at other people's and commit occasionally
< 1292272611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I use tailor to create an automatic mirror of them in darcs
< 1292272621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: let's put it this way: the recommended way to host a svn repository is via WebDAV.
< 1292272622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I used git-svn on a serious project once
< 1292272630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: specifically, WebDAV in Apache.
< 1292272644 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm unaware of what WebDAV is, and get the feeling that I'm probably better off not knowing
< 1292272648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have vaguely heard of it, though
< 1292272650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The protocol consists of a set of new methods and headers for use in HTTP. The added methods include:
< 1292272650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * PROPFIND — used to retrieve properties, stored as XML, from a resource. It is also overloaded to allow one to retrieve the collection structure (a.k.a. directory hierarchy) of a remote system.
< 1292272650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * PROPPATCH — used to change and delete multiple properties on a resource in a single atomic act
< 1292272650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * MKCOL — used to create collections (a.k.a. a directory)
< 1292272650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * COPY — used to copy a resource from one URI to another
< 1292272652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * MOVE — used to move a resource from one URI to another
< 1292272654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * LOCK — used to put a lock on a resource. WebDAV supports both shared and exclusive locks.
< 1292272656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * UNLOCK — to remove a lock from a resource
< 1292272658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's WebDAV.
< 1292272663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: basically, subversion does commits via extended HTTP.
< 1292272668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you may now hang yourself.
< 1292272676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and yes, it is *that slow*)
< 1292272695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a pretty hilarious case where a leaked internal Microsoft memo said that they'd gained an advantage with DAV on the basis that it was complicated and the open-source people would probably guess wrong as to what to copy first
< 1292272700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: honestly, if not for the pserver login crap, cvs is nicer to use than svn
< 1292272701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and haha
< 1292272705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a couple of days later, the whole thing was implemented in Apache
< 1292272723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: proprietary software, gotta love its motivations
< 1292272725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably not in a particularly working state, but just to show off)
< 1292272767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: incidentally, it'd be nice if scapegoat is structured in a way that you can do almost all processing client-side (I know the server is just "another client", but you know what I mean)
< 1292272772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I know that servers are optional)
< 1292272783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can change that to "command-side"
< 1292272785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so that it isn't a pain to use it on a low-powered VPS
< 1292272786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ,yes
< 1292272788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*well, yes
< 1292272794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, whichever side happens to have the sg command
< 1292272798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i know this is horribly implementation-detail for this point in time, but still
< 1292272799 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever we call it
< 1292272800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right
< 1292272813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha, i just realised something
< 1292272833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again?
< 1292272838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a huge project for sudden realisations
< 1292272839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can give people commit access by letting them only: add files to store/; and add and modify files in .
< 1292272849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, the only files out of that are ... names)
< 1292272853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in fact you never modify names
< 1292272858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can give people commit access by letting them only: add files to store/; and add and delete files in .
< 1292272860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort-of like the opposite of Feather, it keeps becoming suddenly easier to understand every now and then, rather than harder
< 1292272861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1292272861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to delete names)
< 1292272871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, can you set up rsync servers to let you do that easily?
< 1292272875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be nice
< 1292272876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably
< 1292272890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scp would work, but it'd give more permissions than necessary
< 1292272933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there an rscp?
< 1292272936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, there should be
< 1292272941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :googling suggests not
< 1292272962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can write that after your append-only key value store
< 1292272966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: actually, if we go the database file route, rsync will be basically a requirement
< 1292272976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because it can just send a delta from the old file
< 1292272985 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, I thought we'd have to write our own system for syncing
< 1292272986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you wouldn't overwrite the old file, though; you'd merge it)
< 1292272988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we can just use rsync
< 1292272997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, except, if we don't go the db file route, we don't even need rsync
< 1292273004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything that can... upload and download files works fine
< 1292273017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rsync would still help by sending just the files we didn't already have
< 1292273025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, yes, indeed
< 1292273035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's why I used wget and tar, previously
< 1292273043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to highlight /why/ i wanted such an insane feature :)
< 1292273070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insane + useful, the best combination
< 1292273072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nice thing about the key-value store: every file comes with its own checksum
< 1292273084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if hash(lookup(x)) != x, something went wrong/has been tampered with
< 1292273097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonus: hashing is pretty fast, so you can do this all the time without much overhead
< 1292273112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hmm, SHA-3 is selecting for speed as well as security, so that'll be nice)
< 1292273127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it selecting for fast or slow?
< 1292273132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fast
< 1292273135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but secure
< 1292273145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: of course, for things like password hashing, you want slow
< 1292273146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so sub-ideal for passwords
< 1292273152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for more general things, fast is a great advantage
< 1292273156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is still reading about the Gawker hack

< 1292273177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I doubt bcrypt will be beaten for passwords any time soon, especially as it basically has a parameter for "increase this when computers get faster".
< 1292273183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*faster, and it'll become more secure
< 1292273204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people have been suggesting scrypt, which is designed like bcrypt except that it deliberately parallelises really badly
< 1292273210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it harder to use GPUs to attack it
< 1292273215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, yes, that's Colin Percival's
< 1292273218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot about that one
< 1292273224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, scrypt is probably the best right now
< 1292273226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(doesn't really help, though, as you can just check multiple passwords in parallel...)
< 1292273238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: doesn't help if you only want to crack one
< 1292273244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. the missile launch codes :)
< 1292273252 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001f5b00390f-CM001e6b2335dc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292273257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean you're trying to crack a particular hash
< 1292273264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, i see
< 1292273266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you test password1 against the hash while testing password2 against the hash
< 1292273275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, yes, but you'd need more than if it was easily-parallelisable
< 1292273276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's even theoretically possible to avoid that
< 1292273315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, using non-sg vcses is going to feel horrible now
< 1292273319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for that :P
< 1292273322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry
< 1292273330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm kidding :)
< 1292273333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they already do feel horrible :P
< 1292273356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :git is already entirely usable for me even though it's far from my favourite VCS, it just more or less won the DVCS war
< 1292273372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it did, and I kind of regret egging it on
< 1292273389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hadn't quite realised that it wasn't like it was when it started out -- a versioned file system with a VCS built on top of it
< 1292273441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh well, thankfully we #esotericers exist in our own bubble where we do what we want and suffer the consequences
< 1292273459 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's sort-of like the opposite of Feather, it keeps becoming suddenly easier to understand every now and then, rather than harder <-- so after you've implemented it, you can do feather by a simple time reversal >:)
< 1292273464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: incidentally, how does scapegoat handle binary files? presumably it's just fixed to byte-based?
< 1292273475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: perhaps it should have a binary diff algorithm included for those rare cases
< 1292273478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends on what sort of binary diffs are sane
< 1292273488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :treating them as blobs is generally what you want
< 1292273494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.daemonology.net/bsdiff/
< 1292273497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you go down the C-INTERCAL route and have source code in binary
< 1292273500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (also Colin Percival)
< 1292273513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: by binary I mean things like image data
< 1292273513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ESR deleted the files in question on the basis that he thought they were generated; good thing that VCSes exist...)
< 1292273521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not mostly-text files with little binary snippets in them, say
< 1292273524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what files are those again?
< 1292273531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the character conversion tables
< 1292273535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292273551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making them text would have required an extra layer of encoding for no reason at all
< 1292273551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, I basically mean just images, complicated level data formats, that sort of thing
< 1292273607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a rare correct usage of big O: "bsdiff is quite memory-hungry. It requires max(17*n,9*n+m)+O(1) bytes of memory, where n is the size of the old file and m is the size of the new file. bspatch requires n+m+O(1) bytes."
< 1292273646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"plus an arbitrary constant", it's being used for there?
< 1292273651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1292273668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: e.g., what most people mean by O(2n) is 2n + O(1)
< 1292273678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, at least, close
< 1292273689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now that we've got a vaguely good idea of what scapegoat is, we can argue about more important things, like code formatting standards
< 1292273696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and software licenses
< 1292273709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, not my irritate-everyone format for C?
< 1292273723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt annoying everyone /equally/ is actually possible, but that one must be close
< 1292273731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed not; btw, I made a more irritating format than that
< 1292273753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say "as irritating as possible", just "equally irritating"
< 1292273756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://sprunge.us/hShh
< 1292273764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (one mistake there: &c and &d should be & c and & d)
< 1292273774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's evil
< 1292273780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the indents before the { and } are spaces, but the indents before the actual code are 2-widtht abs
< 1292273782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*2-width tabs
< 1292273784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like GNU-style, but in reverse
< 1292273788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHAHA
< 1292273804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worryingly, it actually fulfils the design goals for GNU style better than GNU style itself
< 1292273807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and all but the last * go in the type, the last goes before the name
< 1292273808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless there's only one
< 1292273811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case it goes in the type
< 1292273838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I should hire you to work on my hypothetical esolang that's designed to look like C but have subtly different semantics almost everywhere
< 1292273850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is this the kind of hiring that involves no pay? :)
< 1292273854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so
< 1292273861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do that kind of hiring a lot! it rarely works
< 1292273884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i say we release it under the WTFPL, and then when esr relicenses it it'll actually /work/
< 1292273890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: justification slightly meaningless)
< 1292273923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike the WTFPL
< 1292273927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why?
< 1292273931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I have paranoid parents and some of the paranoia rubs off
< 1292273935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been using it exclusively lately
< 1292273941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the FSF consider it a valid Free software license
< 1292273942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get a lot of "but what if someone does something illegal with your code?"
< 1292273954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they want me to put disclaimers in my licensing against that sort of thing
< 1292273959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Every major Linux distribution (Debian, Red Hat, Gentoo, SuSE, Mandrake, etc.) ships software licensed under the WTFPL."
< 1292273969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even though, I suppose, it's a field-of-use restriction)
< 1292273970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well -- [[The WTFPL is an all-purpose license and does not cover only computer programs; it can be used for artwork, documentation and so on. As such, it only covers copying, distribution and modification. If you want to add a no warranty clause for a program, you may use the following wording in your source code: ]]
< 1292273988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can't stop people using your code for illegal purposes
< 1292273989 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And what single piece of software is that?
< 1292273990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like at least a no-warranty clause, anyway
< 1292273994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: licenses only cover /redistribution/
< 1292273997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: software, plural
< 1292273997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed
< 1292274009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm not sure what, exactly; I seem to recall I looked it up once
< 1292274010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because a lot of people are extreme idiots
< 1292274020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: eh?
< 1292274022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not the majority
< 1292274025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm just saying that that would have to be an EULA
< 1292274031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and EULAs are evil
< 1292274034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and invalid, too
< 1292274035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I'm not talking about the no illegal use clause
< 1292274041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously that makes no sense in a contract
< 1292274049 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh shit dude, the EULA says I can't use this for illegal purposes, guess I won't then."
< 1292274057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking about no warranty
< 1292274058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using this software to break the law is AGAINST THE LAW!!
< 1292274061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah
< 1292274070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I slipped and fell and broke my finger on a CD of your software, I demand $20,000"
< 1292274083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it's easy enough to put a no-warranty clause on top of the WTFPL... really, I'd use another license, it's just that there's no good PD-equivalent license
< 1292274087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those sorts of people would probably actually be stopped by a warranty disclaiemr
< 1292274090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*disclaimer
< 1292274094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(creative commons zero is (1) IIRC under revision and (2) really, really long and ugly)
< 1292274110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, I know, I'll just remove the requirement from the ISC
< 1292274113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've thought about using CC0 for something (other than Esolang)
< 1292274123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actually copying the entire license text in
< 1292274124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copyright (c) Year(s), Company or Person's Name 
< 1292274124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Permission to use, copy, modify, and/or distribute this software for any
< 1292274124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :purpose with or without fee is hereby granted.
< 1292274124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS" AND THE AUTHOR DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES
< 1292274124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WITH REGARD TO THIS SOFTWARE INCLUDING ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF
< 1292274125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHOR BE LIABLE FOR
< 1292274127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANY SPECIAL, DIRECT, INDIRECT, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OR ANY DAMAGES
< 1292274128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHATSOEVER RESULTING FROM LOSS OF USE, DATA OR PROFITS, WHETHER IN AN
< 1292274129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without an indication that it's actually public domain
< 1292274131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION OF CONTRACT, NEGLIGENCE OR OTHER TORTIOUS ACTION, ARISING OUT OF
< 1292274132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE USE OR PERFORMANCE OF THIS SOFTWARE.
< 1292274135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go!
< 1292274137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sorry for the flood
< 1292274138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that... BSD1?
< 1292274139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only changed paragraph is the second one
< 1292274141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or BSD0?
< 1292274145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISC_license
< 1292274155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring, I like the idea of removing yet more clauses from BSD now
< 1292274156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's BSD2, minus stuff the Berne convention makes unnecessary; OpenBSD use it for everything
< 1292274166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's FSF-declared Free
< 1292274169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's OSI-approved
< 1292274173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: basically, the change is just
< 1292274176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Permission to use, copy, modify, and/or distribute this software for any
< 1292274176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :purpose with or without fee is hereby granted, provided that the above
< 1292274176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copyright notice and this permission notice appear in all copies.
< 1292274180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--> Permission to use, copy, modify, and/or distribute this software for any
< 1292274180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :purpose with or without fee is hereby granted.
< 1292274190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's call it BSD1, then
< 1292274193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as that's a great name for a license
< 1292274203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I like the concept of a license where the version numbers go backwards
< 1292274211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's more like BSD0
< 1292274214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it has, literally, no requirements
< 1292274226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the permission is still a clause, isn't it?
< 1292274232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe... but then ISC is BSD1
< 1292274235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ours is... BSD0.5
< 1292274245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a true 0-clause license would be all rights reserved
< 1292274255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: my absolute favourite license is the OSI-approved Fair License:
< 1292274256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usage of the works is permitted provided that this instrument is retained with the works, so that any entity that uses the works is notified of this instrument.
< 1292274257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DISCLAIMER: THE WORKS ARE WITHOUT WARRANTY.
< 1292274263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but it's only OSI-approved AFAIK, not anything else
< 1292274276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and removing the requirement would make it so vague as to be useless
< 1292274278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, does that have a power of at least 1?
< 1292274281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Usage of the works is permitted.")
< 1292274283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh
< 1292274288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should use that to license the Agoran source code
< 1292274311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, "Usage... is permitted"? "/Usage/"?
< 1292274322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a pretty restrictive license, without futher clarification
< 1292274323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: redistribution is usage!
< 1292274324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: redistribution is usage!
< 1292274325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1292274333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not according to most licenses I've seen
< 1292274342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. the GPL allows unlimited usage but limits redistribution
< 1292274342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not seriously suggesting it, I just like it
< 1292274344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1292274365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there should be a collaborative-effort license
< 1292274382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to try and find an SHA-512 library that isn't horrible
< 1292274386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for the key-value store prototype)
< 1292274399 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292274421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Permission to use, copy, modify... is granted provided that each derivative work adds another 6 words and one punctuation mark to this sentence: 'David slowed slightly as his ears,'."
< 1292274434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, LibTomCrypt has it
< 1292274438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could become quite a story after a few thousand people had modified it
< 1292274450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh
< 1292274475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did remember the sentence fragment right, right?
< 1292274479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes
< 1292274495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :David Slowed, slightly as his ears, entered the room.
< 1292274508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :David Slowed Slightly, as his ears, was gigantic.
< 1292274509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you added an extra comma, that's cheating
< 1292274519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: erm, such modification happened all the time when we were playing with it
< 1292274522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292274530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just the comma at the end that's immutable?
< 1292274539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not sure even that was immutable :)
< 1292274544 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292274546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember it was
< 1292274556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, I'll replace the sentence with "Just another Perl hacker,"
< 1292274558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :David slowed slightly as his ears rebelled against his tyranny and forcefully pushed him backwards.
< 1292274654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: come to think of it,
< 1292274664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: scapegoat's store is pretty much identical to ElliottOS' model of the world
< 1292274680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: with scapegoat, you could merge every possible store and, ignoring hash collisions, get a valid storage of... everything
< 1292274682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a good thing, right?
< 1292274691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: with ElliottOS, every object is identified by its unique hash
< 1292274694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how many OSes are you working on now? ElliottOS, Kitten, and @?
< 1292274697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can refer to objects anywhere in the world with it
< 1292274699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ElliottOS = @
< 1292274702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292274703 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only two, then
< 1292274715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you're working on the linux-on-a-floppy too, aren't you?
< 1292274716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: @ is a macro that expands to whatever ElliottOS will be called in its first real release
< 1292274723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flinix is abandoned as I can't get X on it :P
< 1292274724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see
< 1292274799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: incidentally, is this a weird thought to have: "releasing software is an obsolete notion"?
< 1292274833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: gah, no, if you go too far down that path you end up with JNLP
< 1292274845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, no, I wasn't thinking *that*
< 1292274854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good
< 1292274871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad I discovered JNLP without explicitly looking for it
< 1292274875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292274884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was just thinking that it's probably nicer to have a Debian-esque model: every now and then, you update the stable branch in your repo with all the changes you've done in the development repo in
< 1292274885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thought of coming up with that in the first place and looking for it explicitly is worrying
< 1292274893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, if you just did some experimental commits, all the commits up to, but not including, that one
< 1292274900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you just point people to that
< 1292274905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and, ideally, offer auto-generated tarballs of it)
< 1292274908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than making actual releases
< 1292274912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardly any programming projects have the issue of "how do I not do auto-update"
< 1292274919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292274960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so, what's the scapegoat language like :P
< 1292274967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you specify merge tactics (patch types, whatever) and branch specifications in
< 1292274987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, impl details again
< 1292274996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it not enough just to specify that it's a program?
< 1292275020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, we've solved most of the theoretical issues :)
< 1292275034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, um, I'd personally include the language as part of the platonic spec
< 1292275037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering it's pretty important
< 1292275045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the pragmatic spec?
< 1292275058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, no, because it's pretty core to the whole thing, I'd say
< 1292275059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I suppose all this depends on how practical and how eso we want to be
< 1292275064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: e.g. every branch is a "program" in this
< 1292275064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably, you could use CSS
< 1292275070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not much of a program, it's not TC (hopefully)
< 1292275076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but every branch is specified by one of these
< 1292275078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's pretty integral
< 1292275090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the plus side, it has most of the properties we need, on the minus side, it's CSS
< 1292275105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It ... how would you write a patch type in CSS.
< 1292275107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're crazy.
< 1292275137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :square brackets after the tag name with a key-value pair, presumably
< 1292275163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You know what, we're not using CSS.
< 1292275173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292275183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you think of an existing language other than CSS that does most of what we need, though?
< 1292275200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it's pretty much a very domain-specific language
< 1292275204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292275221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it wouldn't be too far off OIL, which is the only DSL I've ever written
< 1292275238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, no, it would be miles off OIL
< 1292275239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: INTERCAL-sans-esr would be (\p => p.author != *long_hash_that_identifies_esr_goes_here)
< 1292275263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what lang is that? Ruby? C#?
< 1292275267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't quite identify the syntax
< 1292275267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mu
< 1292275275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's haskell, except -> to => to avoid ambiguity, and !=
< 1292275278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292275279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and *x to mean "the object with hash x"
< 1292275284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mu meaning, none
< 1292275289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292275307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to clarify it wasn't some random language name :)
< 1292275316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as ESR wrote C-INTERCAL originally, removing his contributions and things that depend on them wouldn't leave you with very much)
< 1292275322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, I know
< 1292275323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a joke
< 1292275336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: @tip would be rather complex
< 1292275337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, useful, I just got an email informing me of a seminar at 4pm
< 1292275342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, I am in the same timezone as you
< 1292275342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292275362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it's sent time is 9:07pm today
< 1292275368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in fact, I'm half-way to saying "fuck it, let's use a super-simple specification mechanism, way below a language, and just hardcode the meaning of @tip and the like"
< 1292275370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it would just be a slow received, apparently not...
< 1292275413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: make it pluggable, start with hardcoded @tip, etc, and a simple specification lang, and just leave space for expansion later
< 1292275449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe... but on the other hand, I'm not sure I'd *want* people to be able to specify, e.g., @foo, being the last commit that didn't have a parent thrice removed with "foo" in its patch or... or something else silly like that.
< 1292275464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by a simple specification lang, I mean -- what was your specification for branch ais523 again?
< 1292275468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, only patches you specifically accept
< 1292275481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only patches that I've whitelisted in the repo
< 1292275487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be my typical branch specification
< 1292275498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, the branch would just be a patchset, same as any other, in that case
< 1292275511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the interesting part would be for the whitelist command to update the nicknames
< 1292275523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't actually need a lang at all
< 1292275527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, the nickname would point to the specification
< 1292275540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but in this case the specification is "one patch and its dependencies"
< 1292275549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just, /which/ is updated by the whitelist command
< 1292275549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the other type of branch doesn't need a specification, because it has the implicit "...that doesn't conflict with this branch" that everything has
< 1292275559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so in fact, the only type of specification we need is (mu | whitelisted-specifically)
< 1292275561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, "one set of patches"
< 1292275563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1292275565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so in fact, the only type of specification we need is (none | whitelisted-specifically)
< 1292275575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that works for what I'd use
< 1292275586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might want the "everything but Oracle"
< 1292275597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I can't think of another useful specification other than things like @tip
< 1292275602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, well maybe
< 1292275608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this definitely needs more thought
< 1292275613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the anonymous siblings of @tip need some way to refer to them, too
< 1292275629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, that branch exists via a formula, but it wouldn't automatically have any name at all, not even a hash
< 1292275632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed, I'm not actually sure how you *get* to them
< 1292275637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er no it would have a hash
< 1292275641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything has a hash
< 1292275643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that
< 1292275646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hash would be the commit
< 1292275652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, the patch
< 1292275654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, nothing would insert the hash into any database automatically
< 1292275664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure it does -- the commit's hash
< 1292275668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :patches are branches, aren't they?
< 1292275678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see, you can't have multiple unrelated commits in any of those branches
< 1292275695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so although in general you can't refer to a set of patches by a hash without creating the hash, the set always has exactly one element here
< 1292275704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yep, you can just use the commit's hash
< 1292275727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sheesh, I want a Ph.D. out of this
< 1292275734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's making my head hurt enough just trying to figure it out
< 1292275745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and better still, the whitelist list on the repo in question gives an easy list of all @tip's siblings (they're its direct, rather than indirect, dependencies)
< 1292275754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was... unexpectedly trivial
< 1292275770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: dammit, model, stop making things easy for us
< 1292275776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we like a challenge!
< 1292275784 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292275802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, here's something we haven't addressed - metadata.
< 1292275804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, I have an idea!
< 1292275810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: make sure you save that log, btw
< 1292275816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is being saved, constantly
< 1292275817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep logs
< 1292275818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to review the conversation, and this is a webclient that doesn't log
< 1292275819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right
< 1292275821 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292275826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, somewhere you can find it more easily
< 1292275826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: files are just their contents, not anything else; the names and permissions are stored in the *directory* they're in
< 1292275838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this also means that moving a file around doesn't even touch it
< 1292275840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just its hierarchy
< 1292275847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this allows putting a / below your existing / without changing every single file
< 1292275849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how well does that fit a common programmer's use of a filesystem?
< 1292275853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine, quite well
< 1292275854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what do you mean?
< 1292275867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what features of a file are attached to the file itself?
< 1292275872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in this model?
< 1292275873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the contents.
< 1292275874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :size is, obviously; absolute path probably isn't
< 1292275880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a file is just an arbitrary chunk of texct.
< 1292275881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*text.
< 1292275882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mean, in your model, but in general use
< 1292275883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292275897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I *think* I'd say that the (directory-local) name and permissions of a file are part of it
< 1292275898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you decided to send me a file, what metadata would you send along with it?
< 1292275901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's just cognitive bias
< 1292275912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the name; not the permissions, owner, or group
< 1292275916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but I think the name thing is just, human bias
< 1292275922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we like things to have names tied closely to them
< 1292275930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas from a VCS perspective, it makes more sense to have them in the directories
< 1292275934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, many programming languages do too
< 1292275939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java, for instance
< 1292275941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, and consider the case of merging two files
< 1292275946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and also, splitting one file up into multiple
< 1292275953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is /much/ easier if files are just text, and have no metadata
< 1292275957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all the metadata is in the directories
< 1292275961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I suppose so
< 1292275992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, that was an easy decision made
< 1292276000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but -- how are directories stored? obviously, we need to be able to patch them
< 1292276001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: aha!
< 1292276010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: directories exist *only* as a (built-in) language "plugin"
< 1292276013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they have no textual form
< 1292276019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works, I think
< 1292276020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the unit is something like, "one item of metadata"
< 1292276033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: actually, no
< 1292276035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the unit is "one entry"
< 1292276038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, I think probably all language plugins should work like that
< 1292276039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including name, permissions, etc.
< 1292276049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, sure, just, they'll be built on parsing the actual text
< 1292276052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas this won't
< 1292276055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of them will choose to have a plaintext backing
< 1292276058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but perhaps some won't
< 1292276067 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1292276067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, I think we should definitely stick to only tracking actual files
< 1292276069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if they're binary
< 1292276078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the language plugin shouldn't be serialised; the plugin should read in the actual files
< 1292276083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and they should handle formatting changes
< 1292276086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO
< 1292276089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1292276095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they're more like, smarter semantic diffs, rather than AST versioners
< 1292276097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, give the plugin the choice of whether it's filesystem-related or not?
< 1292276111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for, say, C you can handle the source code just fine
< 1292276112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: eh... I think it's a lot simpler if the plugin just gets a file and is told "hey, make sense of this"
< 1292276119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conceptually, too, as in the scapegoat model
< 1292276119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wouldn't it be great to, say, version a running Haskell program
< 1292276125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, the platonic model would be way too general
< 1292276127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, not the source code, the program itself
< 1292276129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the point of uselessness
< 1292276136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can do that later, though
< 1292276145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it sounds cool, but it doesn't sound like something I'd actually want to do :)
< 1292276149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, not outside of @, in Unix
< 1292276158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, i just got a second reminder about that seminar
< 1292276165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: MAKE SURE YOU DON'T MISS IT
< 1292276166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders about time zone issue

< 1292276176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe it's for tomorrow?
< 1292276194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, today
< 1292276201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe it's automated, and the system was slow/down?
< 1292276210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering about that
< 1292276215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it's automated, at least
< 1292276223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the mail server it used was down or something
< 1292276269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so, does sg have any nice properties/features that you know of for single-developer cases?
< 1292276274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, for versioning dotfiles? :)
< 1292276309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one that would be nice would be the ability to extract just a file and its dependencies from a large project and work on that
< 1292276326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried to do that before, but darcs ended up pulling in 9/10 of the project because it was too coarse-grained
< 1292276328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, re: storing file metadata in directories, the command line tool would have to be a bit smart about that, i.e. say that telling it to track file X is actually interpreted as cherry-picking the change to the directory of X
< 1292276335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if multiple files were changed in a patch, it had to use both or neither
< 1292276347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sg could easily use "half a commit" if necessary
< 1292276357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (does ^ make sense?)
< 1292276363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed
< 1292276371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a massive smartness issue, though
< 1292276379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292276425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, to get this out of the way, I strongly oppose having Ŋscapegoat's name actually start with a non-ASCII character :-)
< 1292276441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough
< 1292276485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just use , that's in ASCII and sorts to the end of a directory
< 1292276489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292276497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@scapegoat or %scapegoat seem like the best bets to me (wow, just realised the perl connection) because they're at least near the top (% comes before numbers and letters, @ before letters) and they suggest "special things" but don't have to be escaped in a shell
< 1292276500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unlike {arch} :-))
< 1292276515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, left shift + left control + u lets you type arbitrary Unicode in GNOME by specifying its hex code
< 1292276524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not here
< 1292276531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a specific input method, perhaps
< 1292276560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, really?
< 1292276566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm certainly using gnome
< 1292276566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works on CentOS here and Ubuntu at home
< 1292276588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, and seems not to be sensitive to which control and which shift is used, unlike altgr
< 1292276589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian here... but who knows what i have input methods set to
< 1292276604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, http://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics/ is really depressing
< 1292276630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and v4 is running out faster than ever
< 1292276644 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it'll continue running out long after it's actually out of addresses
< 1292276658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully, IPv4 exhaustion will finally prompt ISPs to start switching to IPv6
< 1292276660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you never know
< 1292276674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: actually, the last allocations are almost in
< 1292276687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and the actual-last-address-allocated estimate is looking like about March 2011
< 1292276688 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, 7 blocks left, and the last 5 are allocated all at once
< 1292276691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari can confirm for sure
< 1292276699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so "long after" is wrong
< 1292276714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was referring to recursive NAT
< 1292276721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I suspected that
< 1292276724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is bound to be the stopgap used, until people realise that it doesn't actually work
< 1292276728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but, still, consider every VPS provider ever
< 1292276738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I could create five new slices right now, and each would get its own static IP
< 1292276746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no real way to NAT VPSes
< 1292276750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, you wouldn't be able to in a while, I suspect
< 1292276752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can run anything on them, on any port
< 1292276762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exhaustion will hit servers much harder than clients
< 1292276764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so it really is a huge thing, because businesses don't exactly want shared hosting
< 1292276775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when they need to put a new machine up ... they just can't
< 1292276826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292276835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's huge, but it probably won't cause the end of the world
< 1292276840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather, it'll just be a wake-up call
< 1292276851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I suggest we assign an IPv6 address to every scapegoat object, just to make IPv6 depletion that much easier
< 1292276862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that even make sense?
< 1292276885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it can if we make it!
< 1292276921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We reply to Russ Cox's "Yacc is Not Dead" by running the example that he claims has best-case complexity of Ω(3^n). It terminates instantly for n > 100."
< 1292276926 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHERE IS FUNGOT
< 1292276934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OH GOD THE BEES
< 1292276950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, so what should we do for public keys? presumably, commits should be optionally signable
< 1292276958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and author objects would have a gpg public key with them
< 1292276968 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what's Russ Cox's "Yacc is Not Dead"?
< 1292276971 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, its now February... And yes, some RIR will grab 2 blocks, and then last five are immediately distributed.
< 1292276972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: a blog post
< 1292276980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that makes sense, I suspect
< 1292276983 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, for killing fungot, I challenge you to a Minecraft duel!
< 1292276988 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Choose your weapons!
< 1292276999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: are there any plausible weapons?
< 1292277001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, maybe we should just have it future-proof... as in, just include gpg-signature keys in patches, and gpg-pubkey in authors
< 1292277004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know whether to laugh
< 1292277005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and then we can switch at a later date
< 1292277016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and tools that don't want to can just ignore them, like other unknown keys
< 1292277018 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that's for fizzie to decide!
< 1292277019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we should futureproof everything, where it doesn't cost too much
< 1292277020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, there's a sword in Minecraft, so yes
< 1292277029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it work for PvP?
< 1292277033 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buckets of lava and water, and cobblestones!
< 1292277037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, minecraft has pvp, yes
< 1292277042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's disabled on our server
< 1292277043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :along with health :P
< 1292277055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making a battle to the death rather difficult
< 1292277072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why am I suddenly reminded of Falcon?
< 1292277088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: erm, for minecraft or for scapegoat? :)
< 1292277093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minecraft
< 1292277097 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that RIR is thought to be APNIC...
< 1292277099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea
< 1292277125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's as if Minecraft's put in any feature that anyone asked for
< 1292277126 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because it's astonishingly poorly-coded?
< 1292277133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not really
< 1292277134 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ohhhh, no.
< 1292277137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or attempted to, but not got too far
< 1292277149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's Survival Multiplayer; the existence of PvP is practically a given
< 1292277154 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notch removes everything that's enjoyable which causes the game to be played in The Wrong Way.
< 1292277156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't disable health with the stock server, we use a mod
< 1292277158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough
< 1292277163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can disable monsters and pvp
< 1292277168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the server open-source, btw?
< 1292277170 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best example: /home.
< 1292277174 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no.
< 1292277176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least open-binary?
< 1292277178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, but people have deobfuscators that you run on the decompiled java
< 1292277179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open-binary, yes.
< 1292277183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (this is how mods exist)
< 1292277191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the nice thing about the mod we use, hMod, is that it has a stable plugin API
< 1292277197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so only one person needs to worry about server code changes
< 1292277203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by open-binary, I more or less mean "allowed to download the binary at will, etc"
< 1292277208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1292277212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you don't have teh game
< 1292277214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the
< 1292277221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://minecraft.net/download/minecraft_server.jar?v=1292277191330
< 1292277291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: another thing nicknames are useful for: identifying author objects
< 1292277291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, just checked the computer here, it's IPv4 only
< 1292277295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed
< 1292277300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful when you want to do, e.g., "sg mail foo" to mail patches to foo
< 1292277303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're useful for naming anything, more or less
< 1292277304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one issue with that: we need a consistent prefix
< 1292277313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enforced? or convention?
< 1292277315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~foo would be ideal, but you'd have to quote it in a shell
< 1292277316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: convention
< 1292277321 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "there will be beta soon" blagpost also said he'll start working on a stable server API for mds.
< 1292277327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest lpsz, to annoy Windows programmers
< 1292277333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that joke's a bit dated nowadays
< 1292277334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: only enforced thing is that @ is a reserved prefix, I think
< 1292277339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for things like @tip
< 1292277354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: although arguably, @ should mean "branch"
< 1292277357 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Long pointer size?
< 1292277373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (this is the point where it's worth considering having a different set of nicknames for each object type rather than this silly prefix business...)
< 1292277393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: long pointer to zero-terminated string
< 1292277410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to a short pointer?
< 1292277418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292277425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although even in win3.1, it was a silly distinction
< 1292277440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the library functions you were calling were unlikely to be in the same segment as your program itself
< 1292277447 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And long pointer? Who uses that with 32-bit stuff?
< 1292277455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: relic from 16-bit Windows
< 1292277460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the prefix was preserved into win32
< 1292277466 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that lparam/wparam stuff.
< 1292277467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope they finally got rid of it with #net, though
< 1292277470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*.net
< 1292277476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C#NET
< 1292277526 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292277528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: annoying thing about scapegoat: it's so close to being perfect for Haskell, except that you'd need all the store operations to be in IO because of the implementation detail that you happen to save them
< 1292277543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, it's probably over-generalised enough that Haskell would be too slow :(
< 1292277568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not with hand-optimisation, perhaps, but then why bother using haskell?)
< 1292277573 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder how many Linux programs (besides stuff like DOSEmu or so) use far pointers (at least Linux/i386 has some syscall that only makes sense with far pointers...)
< 1292277594 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Far pointers?
< 1292277633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm wondering if the object store might want to store more complicated things too; a patch is basically a set, isn't it?
< 1292277647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be a bit awkward to do set[hash(x)]=x for every single change in a patch
< 1292277683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292277707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, maybe we should just store a patch as its changes, sorted in some arbitrary way?
< 1292277718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case, we'd need lists (and at that point I'd agree that we should abandon a filesystem-based approach...)
< 1292277765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :storing a patch as its changes would effectively store the whole repo in any toplevel patch
< 1292277778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so obviously you can't do that completely in general
< 1292277785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would be a sensible optimisation for some patches
< 1292277803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: define toplevel
< 1292277834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, a patch that isn't referred to by any other
< 1292277844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the merge of @tip and its siblings
< 1292277857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worse, the same would apply to any patch that had ever been @tip
< 1292277902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, are you sure?
< 1292277908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wouldn't it be the set of changes from the previous @tip?
< 1292277941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean not recursively
< 1292277978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I imagine that could work
< 1292278000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, "changes, not recursive" is pretty much the definition of a diff :)
< 1292278005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-based VCS
< 1292278015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean, you already have a diff-esque format
< 1292278018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the list of changes
< 1292278027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just, make them relative to their parent(s) in the tree
< 1292278031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, there's the issue of multiple parents
< 1292278046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hg has commits with multiple parents and is diff-based
< 1292278049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how it works, though
< 1292278049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you distinguish between the diff from the previous @tip (all the merged changes), and the diff from the merged changes (the previous @tip)?
< 1292278057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, maybe you store one diff per parent
< 1292278061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such that each diff produces the same result
< 1292278069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have multiple parents
< 1292278070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe?
< 1292278071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno
< 1292278075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of that, but then the diff to the "small" parent's going to be the whole repo
< 1292278086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, if you're just going for efficiency, you store the smallest diff to a parent
< 1292278101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which'll be right 99% of the time, and the rest, you just calculate from scratch
< 1292278111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: TODO: figure out what hg does in this case
< 1292278115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(multiple parents)
< 1292278172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I wonder what it *does* do?
< 1292278179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it definitely has commits with multiple parents, usually merges
< 1292278182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it definitely stores things as diffs
< 1292278190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in our case, every commit is a merge except for the first
< 1292278195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so every commit has multiple parents
< 1292278215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : How does hg handle the storage of commits with two parents (e.g. merges) internally? If it stores them as a diff, which parent does it calculate the diff from?
< 1292278218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--#mercurial
< 1292278222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see if anyone's awake
< 1292278242 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1292278329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliot: Mercurial always stores snapshots conceptually. Delta compression is handled at a lower level.
< 1292278329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: but conceptually, the diff shown from a merge is from the first parent
< 1292278330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mpm: OK. How would the lower level look in the case of two parents being merged?
< 1292278330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : homa_rano: ah -- how does hg work out which parent is the first?
< 1292278334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (mpm is the creator of mercurial)
< 1292278343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I love how I catch out everyone who doesn't use tab complete
< 1292278349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't highlight me if you spell my name wrong, guys...
< 1292278358 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: and the actual-last-address-allocated estimate is looking like about March 2011 <-- i've seen at least twice (Ilari yesterday was the second time) estimates indicating late _January_
< 1292278370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yep, I was behind on my results
< 1292278379 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.114.29.124 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292278383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523:  the first is the one you had checked out when you typed 'hg merge'
< 1292278384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ah :)
< 1292278385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why is it accelerating? people trying to get addresses before the Internet runs out?
< 1292278388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh ninjaed
< 1292278393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so, tl;dr hg just picks an arbitrary parent to diff from, pretty much
< 1292278398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ?
< 1292278400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: diff-to-one-parent seems correct for us, too
< 1292278412 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the model estimates (as opposed to personal guesses of various people) was in January few days ago.
< 1292278413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep, it's just that, they have a working copy that they can choose to diff from; we have no real way to decide which
< 1292278422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calculating a diff from every parent is expensive
< 1292278425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we should pick the one that results in the smaller diff as it's a sensible heuristic to determine which one makes the better working copy
< 1292278433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait
< 1292278434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but the underlying storage is unrelated to parentage
< 1292278434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: We may or may not delta against a convenient revision in the underlying storage.
< 1292278434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mpm: OK.
< 1292278445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can't you just calculate in parallel and stop once you have any diff?
< 1292278447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Would it, say, diff against every parent and then pick the shortest diff?
< 1292278447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Or?
< 1292278450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's find out!
< 1292278453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, not if you want the smallest one
< 1292278468 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292278481 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The current estimates are 2nd February and 23rd February.
< 1292278483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you have to remember that with sg's extra metadata, you can do some large diffs very quickly
< 1292278499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can?
< 1292278505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as normally, you'll find a common ancestor quickly if you just do a breadth-first search
< 1292278511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no need to expand any further from there
< 1292278512 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone fancy thrashing this guy at his own programming contest? http://skybuck.org/BoxifyMe
< 1292278531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a line's the same line in two files, then it's got to be based on the same patch
< 1292278533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: "And may the boxforce be with the fokking you ! ;) =D LOL."
< 1292278540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: I can't do anything related to anyone who says... whatever that is.
< 1292278546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's in the same context, then those have to be based on the same patch, too
< 1292278553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on recursively
< 1292278554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: true
< 1292278559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523:  It generally deltas against the last revision, regardless of how it's related. But that's an implementation detail.
< 1292278569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the problem is, in sg, we can't have the luxury of treating diffs as an implementation detail
< 1292278572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're fundamental
< 1292278583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at the bottom level, there are only a very few diffs
< 1292278606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "insert "x" between 2 and 3", "change 5 to "hello world"", "delete 8"
< 1292278612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, oh, here's something you might like
< 1292278615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://git-annex.branchable.com/
< 1292278619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: from Joey Hess, of Debian fame
< 1292278621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very interesting
< 1292278636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although of course, you'd want to probably cache what combinations of those bottom-level patches came to
< 1292278639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the walkthrough especially (well, after the two introductory paragraphs)
< 1292278642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :highly recommend you take a look
< 1292278643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and yes, true
< 1292278660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "change 5 to "hello world""
< 1292278665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wouldn't that be "change 5 to 6"?
< 1292278667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had a quick look, I'll check more later
< 1292278672 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, that /is/ 6
< 1292278681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, the *change* is the line?
< 1292278691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's blame-based
< 1292278694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, let's say 6 = insert "x" between 2 and 3
< 1292278698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lines are referred to by the change that introduced them
< 1292278698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's "change 6 to "hello""?
< 1292278713 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I suspect the guy running the contest is about 10 years old :-)
< 1292278714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it changes the x that was originally addded between 2 and 3 to "hello"
< 1292278727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because this is scapegoat, it knows which one that was, and whether it's still there
< 1292278762 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: I would do it except reading the image in sounds like the only part that'd take any time, and it sounds boring :)
< 1292278764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it had been deleted since, or changed to something else, it wouldn't be there, or have a different number, respectively, so it wouldn't be found
< 1292278783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so "change 3489573945 to "blah"" if 3489573945 isn't present in the revision we're applying this to would barf out?
< 1292278784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1292278794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, that's the definition of a merge conflict
< 1292278802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, how easy is it to do "sg diff", i.e. "give me a diff between, say, @tip and current working directory"
< 1292278811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: as in, an actual unified diff
< 1292278823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and after you've answered that: same question, but s/@tip/r1/ and s/current working directory/r2/ for arbitrary r1 and r2
< 1292278851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conceptually simple; you take the set difference between the recursive dependencies of each
< 1292278862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then convert that into the lines in question
< 1292278864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then add context
< 1292278883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but actual simplicity?
< 1292278891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect also simple
< 1292278896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean, imagine a revision from 10 years ago to now, when there's been 3 rewrites in-between
< 1292278899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you want a unified diff between them
< 1292278908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely "sg diff r1 r2" would be ... rather slow?
< 1292278928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, I suspect it might be, finding a common ancestor would take ages
< 1292278935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then sg would list one with a bunch of +s, and the other with a bunch of -s
< 1292278942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't generate a textual diff, but a conceptual diff
< 1292278950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, no, I mean in an actual diff -u output
< 1292278952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not anything sg-specific
< 1292278953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :textual
< 1292278957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be an actual -u output
< 1292278961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1292278963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I mean, not generated by diffing text
< 1292278966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: come to think of it, how fast would "sg checkout rev" be?
< 1292278968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for an arbitrary rev
< 1292278971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but by working out what changed, then converting that into unidiff
< 1292278980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect the answer is "slow, in the general case"
< 1292278987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and incredibly slow with a naive impl, but easily optimisable
< 1292279001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how easily?
< 1292279015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you mean "oh, just store the last few revisions unpacked"... well
< 1292279017 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Al Zimmermann's latest programming contest requires quite a bit of processing power :-) http://azspcs.net/Contest/Cards
< 1292279023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect the best storage is a git-like one: for each patch which nothing depends on, store the entire tree; for each patch which something depends on, store a diff from something that depends on it
< 1292279029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think a 15-year-old revision should take hours to check-out.
< 1292279030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. a backwards tree of diffs
< 1292279042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A minute, would be about the most I'd accept (assuming it's not huge, filesystem-wise)
< 1292279055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, every so often, store a complete tree
< 1292279055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a local Ħscapegoat directory
< 1292279062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to speed the process up
< 1292279068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe... does git actually do that though?
< 1292279069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, once every 100 dependencies or so
< 1292279078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it does either that, or something pretty similar
< 1292279081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't quite remember the details
< 1292279086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think the Linux git has hundreds of full copies of Linux in it.
< 1292279088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect that would work, though, and even has tuneable performance
< 1292279127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1292279133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, we'll see :P
< 1292279147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, I just realised something
< 1292279160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the Linux git tree probably does have hundreds of full copies
< 1292279161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, wait, I realised something but it was wrong
< 1292279164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and no
< 1292279166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps one at each release
< 1292279171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: linux-2.6.git is <200 megs
< 1292279181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're deduplicaetd
< 1292279183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*deduplicated
< 1292279188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :via hashes
< 1292279189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: latest 2.6 itself is 60 megs bzipped
< 1292279192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bzip2ed
< 1292279195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1292279205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is git fast at really old revisions?
< 1292279209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes
< 1292279215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: all revisions take the same time to extract, afaik
< 1292279225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less, at least
< 1292279235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, we can look into what it does
< 1292279250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst case, just use git as the FS behind scapegoat and let it handle the deduplication, if it's that magical
< 1292279263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we should look at hg's internal system too, since it's like git but less hacky :)
< 1292279268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's also python
< 1292279281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably easier to get overall details from than git's optimised C
< 1292279293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"store a diff against something" is probably reasonable for an implementation strategy, but it's unclear how it would work for really old things
< 1292279320 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: ? <-- i was (still am :D) way backscrolled so i didn't see Ilari had commented on the same thing
< 1292279329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, I thought nicknames could be done in the store, but I was wrong
< 1292279331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! maybe I wasn't
< 1292279345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd be global if they were
< 1292279350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by definition, pretty much
< 1292279369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, yes, it's just that if you had multiple clashing nicknames, you couldn't use those nicknames
< 1292279375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: first, let's say that the hash function takes a type as a parameter -- branch, pointer, nickname, whatever -- and mixes that into the hash however
< 1292279396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nice to have short nonunique nicknames like "elliott" for a local repo
< 1292279406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: shush, i'm explaining how you can have that
< 1292279408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the store
< 1292279439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now, store a nickname like this: nickname_kvstore = insert(kvstore, type="nickname", key=nickname, value=new_kvstore)
< 1292279452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so, this has {hash(nickname, type="nickname") => {}}
< 1292279455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and nickname_kvstore is the kvstore
< 1292279458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now
< 1292279481 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: why is it accelerating? people trying to get addresses before the Internet runs out? <-- that's the suspicion
< 1292279481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: insert(nickname_kvstore, type="branch", key=the_branch_not_its_hash_the_actual_branch_object, value=the_branch_etc_etc_etc)
< 1292279497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so it's {hash(nickname, type="nickname") => {hash(branch, type="branch") => branch}}
< 1292279506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now, imagine copying a store into another
< 1292279512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: obviously, in this case, the hash for the nickname just gets bigger
< 1292279513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so branches own their own list of other branches
< 1292279516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1292279517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no!
< 1292279518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's... peer to peer branching
< 1292279520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1292279525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has nothing to do with what i said!
< 1292279526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, nicknames to other branches
< 1292279526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop exasperating me
< 1292279528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1292279536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, yes, in that they're versioned, but they don't HAVE to be
< 1292279538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no, I misread
< 1292279539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just talking about the kv store itself
< 1292279556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so, if foo is the nickname for bar in one repo, and the nickname for baz in another, and you copy them into another
< 1292279558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you'd get
< 1292279561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought you had a hash from branches to hashes of nicknames to branches, that isn't what you said though
< 1292279582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{hash("foo", type="nickname") => {hash(bar, type="branch") => bar, hash(baz, type="branch") => baz}}
< 1292279589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now, here's how you look up a nickname:
< 1292279600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nickname_kvstore = lookup(kvstore, "foo", type="nickname")
< 1292279611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you get a set of possibilities
< 1292279614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (number_of_elems(nickname_kvstore) != 1) { NOOO! IT'S BAD! }
< 1292279624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that's what we were doing anyway?
< 1292279632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :else /* get the single element out */
< 1292279634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, it is
< 1292279639 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason it wasn't in the store was so you could copy stores indiscriminately without global namespace pollution
< 1292279659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right, except that it doesn't actually matter, unless you actually use sg on those merged stores directly
< 1292279669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in my model, I didn't think it could go in the kvstore
< 1292279680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because I made the file be called HB-HN
< 1292279686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where HB = hash of branch, HN = hash of nickname
< 1292279694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I didn't realise that it could be done without two hashes in one name
< 1292279703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you couldn't do hash(HB "-" HN) because you don't know HB
< 1292279706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this works
< 1292279711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, consider scapegoathub
< 1292279728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it simply only includes nicknames that reference objects it's sending down
< 1292279732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292279745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (this means we need a sort of, "second level search", i.e. give me the key whose value contains this key, which is easy with a filesystem, at least)
< 1292279747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just like the theory that someone could grab its store without all their nicknames becoming useless
< 1292279754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps what we need is a whitelist for nicknames too
< 1292279763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, you could store them in a not a filesystem
< 1292279766 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like directoreis
< 1292279766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, what i was thinking is, you know how directories?
< 1292279767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1292279768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292279769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*directories
< 1292279777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we both came up with that at the same moment
< 1292279788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, wait, that means we don't even need
< 1292279794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we don't even need this method of storing it
< 1292279800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we just have a not-a-filesystem with a bunch of names
< 1292279805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, but a problem
< 1292279806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1292279809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: say @tip is Orcl
< 1292279825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Orcl don't like me, so they don't include foobarly in their nicknames
< 1292279826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :within a given repo, entirely possible
< 1292279827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what now?
< 1292279836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's in your nicknames
< 1292279841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but what about other people?
< 1292279842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just don't whitelist that, you do
< 1292279851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how would they discover the branch?
< 1292279859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm... actually, wait
< 1292279862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: @tip makes *no sense*
< 1292279870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not globally, no
< 1292279876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes sense relative to a particular branch
< 1292279879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: platonically, everything is part of one yggdrasil repository
< 1292279884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292279885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but that's the thing, @tip *is* a branch
< 1292279889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was meant to be the bootstrap that let you see anything else
< 1292279892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a subbranch
< 1292279896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmmmph
< 1292279903 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think repositories themselves have to be the bootstrap
< 1292279903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: great, everything just got re-confused in my head
< 1292279916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I *think* I've just gone back to thinking that nicknames shouldn't be part of turtles themselves
< 1292279922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid a huge bootstrap issue
< 1292279930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right
< 1292279938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works perfectly except bootstrap
< 1292279949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right... and we're not in the bootstrapping business
< 1292279953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and personally, I don't want to be in that business
< 1292279956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we need to rethink
< 1292279957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrmm
< 1292279959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because Featehr
< 1292279962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*because Feather?
< 1292279966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: partly, yes :)
< 1292279974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also because i want to solve version control, not bootstrapping too!
< 1292279994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, at least I like scapegoat now (previously I thought it was line-based for no real reason, and impossible to store efficiently)
< 1292280016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the problems are tractable, if we step a *little* outside platonic perfection
< 1292280018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to allow bootstrapping
< 1292280026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you have a pointer to a useful branch, you're basically sorted
< 1292280029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no problems
< 1292280057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if we hardcode @tip to mean a certain hardcoded specification, then we can probably store nicknames in turtles
< 1292280072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's just that, two branches having two different ideas of what nicknames there are is perverse
< 1292280081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could switch to a branch and have no way to switch to another branch without going through @tip
< 1292280092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, that's enough to not turtle nicknames for me
< 1292280114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so I think the original, Åscapegoat/names approach was actually best
< 1292280115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be like visiting a website and finding it had entirely different DNS and your back button didn't work
< 1292280121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no real point to put them in the store, really
< 1292280122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I might
< 1292280125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an implementation detail at this point
< 1292280233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, might as well use my nested-hash-in-store if I can get that working efficiently with the two-level search for scapegoathub
< 1292280249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, easy enough to use the %scapegoat/names system (yes, I'm dropping the unicode thing)
< 1292280258 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, scapegoathub is a ridiculous website name
< 1292280262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it really is
< 1292280268 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1292280315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other options are !scapegoat (no, shells barf on that), "scapegoat (nope, shells), #scapegoat (nope, shells... as well as reminding me of IRC and being weird), $scapegoat (shells), %scapegoat, &scapegoat (shells), 'scapegoat (shells), (scapegoat (shells), )scapegoat (shells), *scapegoat (shells), +scapegoat (shells? maybe not), ,scapegoat (weird), -scapegoat (nah)
< 1292280321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for the directory)
< 1292280326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think out of those, %scapegoat or +scapegoat is the best choice
< 1292280343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+foo seems to be uninterpreted in bash, so that's a possibility
< 1292280355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, some programs use it for long options
< 1292280362 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a problem with naming it just ... scapegoat?
< 1292280364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: true, but programs operating on files?
< 1292280365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including programs generated by C-INTERCAL, I think just to be perverse
< 1292280368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: erm, this is the directory like .hg
< 1292280371 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH
< 1292280381 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not .scapegoat then? :P
< 1292280389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't want it to be called .scapegoat because it's neither configuration nor a backup file
< 1292280391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no real reason to hide it
< 1292280398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not very *interesting*, but it's not irrelevant
< 1292280402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't backup files end with ~?
< 1292280405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and eliding it from filename listings is just confusing
< 1292280408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, why?
< 1292280417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: don't call it a backup directory, I'll have to slap you
< 1292280423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why would you start them with .?
< 1292280428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292280430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is this a Vorpal-level misunderstanding on my part?
< 1292280434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, vim calls its swap files .something.swp I think
< 1292280434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget
< 1292280440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs has .#foo# too, at least for me, sometimes
< 1292280464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're thinking of the broken symlinks starting .# it uses to prevent accidentally opening the same file twice
< 1292280475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(why it uses broken symlinks for that purpose, I'm not sure)
< 1292280478 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : *because Feather? <-- wait is this scapegoat idea actually _based_ on feather?
< 1292280480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1292280486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's too insane for words
< 1292280487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could also go for :scapegoat (naw), ;scapegoat (shells), scapegoat (shells), ?scapegoat (shells, I think)
< 1292280491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but those come after numbers
< 1292280496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making them not really order any particular way at all
< 1292280498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're making design decisions to stop it working like Feather as much as possible
< 1292280517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what about calling it -rf?
< 1292280519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly some things put ^scapegoat before other things too
< 1292280520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :D
< 1292280545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+scapegoat seems like the best contender to me, it's like %scapegoat but less ugly... and really, I don't know of any tool that accepts +-options and would be useful to use on a file, at least, not very often
< 1292280552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the + makes me think "additional"
< 1292280563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you don't *need* this, if you want these files, but it has additional sets of files like this that you might liek
< 1292280564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*like
< 1292280577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I like the look of the + too
< 1292280582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that it renders really badly with this font
< 1292280586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame your font
< 1292280591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even know you /could/ render a + asymmetrically...
< 1292280594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1292280603 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [...] (yes, I'm dropping the unicode thing) <-- i was about to ask...
< 1292280611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :)
< 1292280614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and now I'm wondering if arch/tla is perhaps just terribly misunderstood, and they picked all their filenames for perfectly good reasons :D
< 1292280624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's a pixel shorter on the left than right, and a pixel shorter below than above)
< 1292280625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and if all that confusing terminology is just GENERALITY!
< 1292280629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably not.
< 1292280640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difficulty of creating a repo is quite large
< 1292280649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I say we go for "sg init"
< 1292280650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it has some sort of repo repo you store your repos in
< 1292280651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1292280666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally, you wouldn't have to think about all this advanced technology every day...
< 1292280694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, every repo needs to come with one commit there, because it's the branch everything is based on
< 1292280702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest it be authorless, and absolutely contentless
< 1292280715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then every store will include that object and maybe a few others if it needs extra ones to exist :)
< 1292280731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, shouldn't it be an empty directory?
< 1292280734 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292280737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1292280747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I need to go home, now may be a good time
< 1292280749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye everyone
< 1292280756 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1292280802 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does he hate me that much?
< 1292280981 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you weren't supposed to suspect that
< 1292280988 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is back to the future

< 1292281050 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The only acceptable directory name is +scape🐐
< 1292281056 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you can't read that ... neither can I, but still
< 1292281059 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes forward to the past.

< 1292281065 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292281756 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292281857 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1292282125 0 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn37-232.vpn.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292282317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokoko
< 1292282362 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopower!
< 1292282823 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.16/20101130074636]
< 1292283192 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any idea or comment or collaboration or anything about TeXnicard? Should I create a IRC channel on my server for this purpose? (Remember to FLUSH the channel afterwards if you want to ensure your question/comment is not lost due to power failures!)
< 1292283625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmm, hg log -r 'limit(sort(all(), -rev), 4) and not merge()' does the same thing as hg log -l 4 -M, which isn't what i want
< 1292283629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear god it has Python in it.
< 1292283648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: erm I don't believe you can FLUSH an IRC channel
< 1292283690 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: On most IRC servers you cannot. On CthulhuIRCd, you can FLUSH an IRC channel.
< 1292283699 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is _zzo38's_ IRC channel we are talking about, it's ... right.
< 1292283709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1292283721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words, it's not IRC :)
< 1292283797 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It is IRC, it is just non-standard. Commands like NS and CS supported on Freenode are not standard IRC commands either.
< 1292283881 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1292283898 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And I have no need to support syntactically incorrect commands in my server.)
< 1292284014 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: +scape🐐
< 1292284047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is 🐐 a goat? :p
< 1292284123 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Why do you want to support syntactically incorrect commands in your server?
< 1292284214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ...:D
< 1292284218 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292284223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what did you do
< 1292284279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, I hate libraries whose manuals are PDFs
< 1292284290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or postscripts or dvis, before zzo38 mentions it :P)
< 1292284379 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: um i'm pretty sure i never said i wanted that
< 1292284379 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :🐐 - "U+1F410 GOAT (eighth of the signs of the Asian zodiac)"
< 1292284385 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I have in any of my fonts either.
< 1292284413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you didn't ctcp him or anything?
< 1292284420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: WHY DO YOU WANT TO KILL BABIES
< 1292284421 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, "eighth of the signs of the Asian zodiac, used in Vietnam"; was reading the RAM instead.
< 1292284431 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: BECAUSE THEY'RE SO TASTY
< 1292284434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: rams and goats, what's the difference
< 1292284447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: why do you think oerjan wants to support syntactically incorrect commands in his server?
< 1292284450 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The difference is that they use the GOAT in Vietnam.
< 1292284463 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Because some people do.
< 1292284471 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSO THEY SCREAM TOO MUCH
< 1292284475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what?
< 1292284496 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, it seems common.
< 1292284500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: (for some X in People, WantsSyntacticallyIncorrectCommands(X)) => WantsSyntacticallyIncorrectCommands(oerjan)?
< 1292284504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i... think not
< 1292284509 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+1F47D EXTRATERRESTIAL ALIEN, right there between BABY ANGEL and ALIEN MONSTER.
< 1292284517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: mind, I do want syntactically-incorrect commands in my IRC servers.
< 1292284524 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The "miscellaneous symbols and pictographs" block sure is the best.)
< 1292284532 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why?
< 1292284542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: because they're convenient.
< 1292284578 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think they still should be made syntactically correct even if it is going to be convenient!
< 1292284591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: not possible, with existing clients
< 1292284622 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: *EXTRATERRESTRIAL
< 1292284627 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It is possible with my client, if your client doesn't do that, it is partially broken.
< 1292284639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yep, but I don't like your client, and I like the client I use
< 1292284655 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Can't you correct  the client you use then?
< 1292284681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no, I use my distribution packages for convenience.
< 1292284687 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: EXTRATASTY.
< 1292284690 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, cpressey linkified feather on the wiki.  i think this means we are all doomed.
< 1292284693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: correcting them brings me no benefit, is a lot of effort, and I'd have to update it for each new version of my client.
< 1292284702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's not allowed!
< 1292284711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais has said he won't create a page until it's ready
< 1292284718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and putting intentional redlinks there that won't be filled for ages is just silly
< 1292284834 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it silly
< 1292284859 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well it is clearly a link to the FUTURE
< 1292284870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: because it's an empty promise?
< 1292284876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not going to be a useful link for ages, so it's rather pointless
< 1292284913 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Your IRC client must have some way to enter another command to IRC server though, it depends on the client. The FLUSH command I implemented can take only one parameter anyways.
< 1292284965 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cost of linkifying is low compared to the potential uses; it might be unlinkified for a long time after the page goes up, which is a greater loss
< 1292285051 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders making a joke page for Feather

< 1292285247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'''Feather''' is like... ''whoa,'' man...
< 1292285255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: RED IS UGLY
< 1292285256 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is writing now

< 1292285267 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Use custom CSS.
< 1292285273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ;_;
< 1292285278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: psht, if you weren't an admin i'd ask for it to be deleted :D
< 1292285349 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _am not_ an admin
< 1292285389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, indeed :D
< 1292285470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm how many characters do you need to store an sha512 digest
< 1292285484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64, it seems
< 1292285784 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anything wrong with the C-LONG beer program?
< 1292285894 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And do you have anything to say about TeXnicard anyways?
< 1292286041 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that was some fast editing
< 1292286075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i just clicked the red feather link and saw you'd already created the page :)
< 1292286077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pure coincidence
< 1292286084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one might even say ... SYNCHRONICITY
< 1292286090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets switten

< 1292286110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(those who are swatted are switten)
< 1292286132 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: heh.  but you managed to do it between me saving the page and refreshing Recent Changes
< 1292286139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292286149 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which must have been less than half a minute
< 1292287133 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292287139 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-39-38.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292287500 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this reminds me of mel brooks's luggage in space balls: http://www.buzzfeed.com/gavon/top-25-gawker-passwords
< 1292287653 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1292287654 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... Wonder why ping times on this LAN link are so asymmetric and growing: In the start the ping times were about 0.5ms and 0.6ms. Now those are about 11.0ms and  1.7ms (resp.)
< 1292287756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: "Top 25 Gawker Passwords"? Seriously?
< 1292287769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If writing "Top" and then a number was banned on the internet, I would be a happy man.
< 1292287778 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: gravitional time dilation.  check if one of the servers has become a black hole
< 1292287789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1292287791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's literally, most popular
< 1292287794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not "best" :D
< 1292287798 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292287804 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't pings round trip times?
< 1292287834 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :divided by 2, usually
< 1292287867 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, there's factor of ~6 difference in round-trip times...
< 1292287900 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And variability between pings is very small...
< 1292287931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: erm are you sure ping times are divided
< 1292287963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: they're not, since they're round-trip times
< 1292287973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure why you said they were divided by 2.
< 1292288006 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't time measurement drift: Starting another ping shows the same kind of RTTs.
< 1292288011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: ?
< 1292288076 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, both times grew at start, but now that lesser time appears to have reached saturation whereas the bigger one continues to increase...
< 1292288204 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, pings to IPv6 address of the same host are fast (~0.6ms).
< 1292288344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://sprunge.us/JYDZ Please tell me how silly I am.
< 1292288416 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW: IPSec slows down RTT by about 0.3ms. :-)
< 1292288676 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i misremembered, i guess
< 1292288683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1292288807 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> IPSEC doubles the latency for me... :-)
< 1292288807 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292288831 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-39-38.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292289361 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How close are you to the batsman?
< 1292289368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I am the goddamn batsman.
< 1292289393 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The closer you are to the batsman, the more silly you are.
< 1292289425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Such a Joker.
< 1292289435 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must ... kill ... everyone ...
< 1292289509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: wat
< 1292289517 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Two or four jokers, please?
< 1292289571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: wat
< 1292289625 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292289655 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292289816 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the minimum worst case bound for number of UTF-8 characters required to store SHA-512 hash? :-)
< 1292289897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: 64, surely
< 1292289902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: if they're all in ASCII range
< 1292289925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: well, presumably you mean the actual raw hash in base 256
< 1292289926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe not
< 1292290015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: these look nice: http://www.retributiongames.com/quandary/
< 1292290079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: heh i like this: http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=46707
< 1292290092 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please read this and tell me how crazy I did this:  http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/textfile/miscellaneous/computer_cricket
< 1292290219 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, not UTF-8 characters, but UTF-8 bytes. It seems the number is 72, 73 or 74.
< 1292290252 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The FPGA is no good unless there is sufficient public information available to create and upload the files to the FPGA without using any software you didn't write.
< 1292290264 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks "minimum worst case" looks a _teeny_ bit oxymoronic

< 1292290636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: methinks many people would disagree ...
< 1292290699 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why?
< 1292290709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's silly to say that?
< 1292290723 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why?
< 1292290737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: because FPGAs are useful even without meeting that condition
< 1292290789 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is better if it does meet the condition I wrote.
< 1292290829 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love not studying for finals.
< 1292290857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "Laziness + weak hash tables + dynamic scope + side effects = heisenbug. Made a race condition look like an off-by-one error."
< 1292290863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Anyone who can combine these things is a god among men.
< 1292290873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And then FIGURE OUT what a bug involving them is.)
< 1292290882 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you read my other message? Do you think the umpire is really a vampire?
< 1292290883 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh holy mother of god.
< 1292290893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Indeed.
< 1292291556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Please recommend me an alternative to /r/programming that isn't Slashdot.
< 1292291698 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :RadioBotStreams
< 1292291704 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric
< 1292291727 0 :RadioBotStreams!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :quintopia
< 1292291756 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah pretty much #esoteric
< 1292291801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but I generate most of the links in #esoteric... from /r/programming :)
< 1292291806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want something where I don't have to do the filtering work, dammit!
< 1292291884 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are looking for programming-related news links?
< 1292291916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: pretty much... although more a CS bent
< 1292291921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, programming links.
< 1292292006 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That minimum worst case is actually well defined. Consider all functions that map all 2^512 SHA-512 hashes to UTF-8 strings. For each function f, there is maximum number of bytes in resulting UTF-8 strings (L(f)). Now what is the minimum of L(f) over all possible choices of f?
< 1292292111 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: start going to conferences :P
< 1292292151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: that costs rather more money than the £0 I currently spend on programming links, involves a lot more travelling that probably doesn't fit into my life, and involves a lot more boredom and time passing, too
< 1292292157 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is at most 74 because one can split 512 bits into 74 blocks of 7 bits each, and one can encode each block using a single ASCII character (which is subset of UTF-8).
< 1292292174 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but you'll always be on the bleeding edge of CS news
< 1292292200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i can get the same from reading random arxiv papers, I want a filter, dammit
< 1292292219 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(more seriously, there aren't many places out there where you don't have to separate the signal from the noise yourself...even conferences have some crap)
< 1292292248 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lower bound of 72 comes from the fact that entropy of UTF-8 is ~7.1756 bits per byte, giving lower bound of ~71.353 bytes (which rounds up to 72 bytes).
< 1292292270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yes, but /r/programming is significantly worse than it used to be.
< 1292292352 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: figure out who is making it worse and get them kidnapped by ethiopian pirates?
< 1292292385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your solutions, always so practical.
< 1292292445 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder...
< 1292292557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1292292611 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: news.ycombinator.com?
< 1292292648 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I computed the exact low bound: 73.
< 1292292648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i know of it.
< 1292292658 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it?
< 1292292665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: sure, it is generally better than reddit -- but on the other hand, it's coated with the startup mindset
< 1292292669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh *quintopia:
< 1292292691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: meaning, lots of stupid business articles I don't care about, lots of rubbish startup-related things I don't care about, and more links than I'd like to WEB 2.0 crap
< 1292292696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(WEB 2.0 is shouted there.)
< 1292292750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Facebook intern visualizes friendships, draws world map" "HN: We're starting a "Move to Silicon Valley" wiki. We could use some help." "The Anatomy of a Perfect Landing Page" "Commute to work like a boss, fly there" <-- first things on the current front page that i really don't care to see
< 1292292757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i mean, the programming links are better than reddit's. and the comments too.
< 1292292774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: but there's more completely-unrelated-to-programming crap than /r/programming, and it's more irritating than reddit's non-programming crap
< 1292292782 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: write a simple software filter on top of their rss feed :P
< 1292292801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: unfortunately i have not yet written a program to classify the topic of statements from their text by interpreting them
< 1292292855 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know someone who has.  he implemented it from another paper, and is sending me a writeup on wed.
< 1292292891 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :classifies with 97% accuracy in a 3-fold cross-validation
< 1292292956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: "Commute to work like a boss, fly there" -- how on earth would you classify this is "non-programming"
< 1292292970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's near the level of AI to identify that as non-programming without also filtering out a lot of programming links
< 1292293018 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you'd need to look at the actual article
< 1292293028 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes a certain number of features
< 1292293050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i doubt i could get past a paywall.
< 1292293050 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~100 words is usually enough
< 1292293063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: you realise that classification algorithms are not a new thing?
< 1292293070 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: could you get past a paywall anyway?
< 1292293075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they won't categorise Hacker News for me.
< 1292293084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i'm saying that it's pointless mentioning it without linking the paper
< 1292293097 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but if you take a significant subset of HNews and classify it manually, then they can
< 1292293116 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For SHA-256, the similar number is 37. And for Skein-1024, 144.
< 1292293143 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you misunderstood me
< 1292293147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: what about cubehash :)
< 1292293151 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So have you renamed it to scape🐐 yet?
< 1292293155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I did?
< 1292293156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: nope!
< 1292293165 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: DOOD WHY NOT
< 1292293172 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant, your learning algorithm would need to look at the actual article linked from HNews in order to get enough data to classify
< 1292293175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: VARIOUS REASONS
< 1292293177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: oh.
< 1292293184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: that would eat my bandwidth :)
< 1292293204 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...how often do new articles get posted?
< 1292293214 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like at most every 10 min
< 1292293230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: way more often than that, they just don't all get promoted to the front page
< 1292293238 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292293239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see /newest
< 1292293247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i don't want it using my bandwidth when i'm not viewing it, anyway!
< 1292293250 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: TOO VARIOUS IF YOU ASK ME
< 1292293253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'd have to do it all at once --> slow
< 1292293258 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, 36 (256 bits), 72 (512 bits) and 143 (1024 bits)... :-/
< 1292293260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: maybe if you write some code for it i'll CONSIDER it
< 1292293284 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: best to have it hosted on a remote server then :P
< 1292293293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: or just keep reading reddi
< 1292293294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t
< 1292293339 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How about if I just register goatpettingzoo.com and don't put goat porn there?
< 1292293350 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: does that mean you're gonna stop whining about /r/programming's slow decline?
< 1292293354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: X-D
< 1292293369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: can you link to clog log dates when i have whined about it?
< 1292293376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH RIGHT there's actually only one and it's today.
< 1292293387 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy enough to link then :P
< 1292293429 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but complaining about something when you're not willing to work to improve is useless even if it's only once
< 1292293442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: what am i expected to do, start my own fucking site?
< 1292293451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said that /r/programming is going to shit and *asked for alternatives*
< 1292293451 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292293452 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please?
< 1292293465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i already have a design for a reddit-based site and it relies fundamentally on nobody knowing about it
< 1292293468 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but there are no alternatives :P
< 1292293469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reddit-like
< 1292293475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: then just say that?
< 1292293482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: you whine about me whining way more than i actually whine
< 1292293505 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlikely
< 1292293522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: well, it's the same order of magnitude
< 1292293547 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what yakitori penalties are?
< 1292293563 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Restricting to BMP doesn't change the figures (36/72/143).
< 1292293600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: why on earth are you calculating this :)
< 1292293609 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just for fun... :-)
< 1292293643 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it is considerably easier than computing the exact expression for the entropy of UTF-8 bytes. :-)
< 1292293696 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: What is the entropy of UTF-8?
< 1292293699 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you need to solve one root of 4th degree polynomial (that doesn't have rational root) for that...
< 1292293742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: BAH! Throwing things at Wolfram Alpha solves all problems.
< 1292293748 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...just expressing the polynomial and saying which root it is would be an exact expression, nay?
< 1292293833 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The polynomial is x⁴-128x³-1920x²-61438x-1048544=0 and the root in question is the root in the interval [128,256].
< 1292293945 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take base 2 logarithm of that and you get the entropy in bits per byte.
< 1292293961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :144.56765801397
< 1292293983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: fuck you, i was just doing that :)
< 1292293985 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK.
< 1292293987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"solve x⁴-128x³-1920x²-61438x-1048544=0, 128 <= x <= 256"
< 1292293988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wolfram alpha
< 1292293990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1292294009 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i happened to have a src0 function in one of my haskell files
< 1292294055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: 7.1756 bits of entropy per byte
< 1292294058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ha i did the last step before you
< 1292294077 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: only because i didn't even try, PHHH
< 1292294079 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can anything have negative or complex number entropy?
< 1292294085 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that PPPH
< 1292294100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what sound are you trying to express :P
< 1292294102 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: not in this sense
< 1292294102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no. well negative maybe.
< 1292294110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's a black hole, say :D
< 1292294111 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: No, it is PPHHHPHPHHHPPHPHPHPHHHPPHPHPHPPHPHPHPHPPHPHPHPHPH
< 1292294137 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it called a raspberry sound?
< 1292294171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "phhhhhhhbt"
< 1292294173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one would think
< 1292294173 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the sound of one raspberry clapping?
< 1292294179 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowing_a_raspberry
< 1292294185 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: DEEP
< 1292294196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: phhhhhhhbt
< 1292294198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd go for
< 1292294233 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow.  someone sold a web app for $350?  lol
< 1292294241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: BIG BUX
< 1292294252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i was offered IIRC $20 for the source to my digg#1 site :P
< 1292294271 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: although physically entropy might very well be negative given that afaik the zero point is an arbitrary choice
< 1292294279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this being before digg went to shit... well ok it had gone to shit but not as much as it have now)
< 1292294291 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but informational entropy is not that way
< 1292294326 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: But what I mean is, can negative informational entropy have some meaning?
< 1292294327 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the macroscopic thermodynamic version of entropy only speaks of changes in it, not an absolute scale, iirc
< 1292294352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know
< 1292294358 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make a esolang with negative (or complex number) informational entropy.
< 1292294384 0 :daniel!~daniel@114.81.104.139 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292294415 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me what should belong in the "Multiball mode" section and "Alien abduction" section, and what things are wrong with the "Physics" section.
< 1292294419 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that entropy for FSA's is always non-negative, since it's a solution of a non-negative matrix maximal eigenvalue
< 1292294455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ConversationalChaff whoever wrote this is a horrible person and knows way too much about people :)
< 1292294494 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Would a negative entropy esolang have to be uncomputable to work? Or not?
< 1292294511 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1292294529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and why do you want to include syntactically invalid commands in your IRC server?
< 1292294531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the babies demand to know
< 1292294545 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292294565 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowing_a_raspberry
< 1292294566 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i don't think uncomputability helps, really
< 1292294570 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope the raspberry at least buys you dinner.
< 1292294585 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats Gregor -----###

< 1292294587 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK.
< 1292294620 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd rather need some esoteric concept of information to calculate the entropy of, i think
< 1292294662 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there _is_ of course such a thing as quantum information theory which i know almost nothing about, i don't know if it has any nonnegative entropies
< 1292294696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan is quantum
< 1292294705 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the babies cannot demand anything, i ate them all
< 1292294712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: WHYYYYYYYYYYY
< 1292294727 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i already _told_ you they were tasty
< 1292294749 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the people who wrote the RFC of IRC know why?
< 1292294765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes.
< 1292294767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :undoubtedly.
< 1292294791 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i would be surprised if they even were aware of my existence
< 1292294812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: THEY SEE EVERYTHING
< 1292294967 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Do they see my IRC server?
< 1292294986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1292295020 0 :daniel!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2
< 1292295026 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they see invisible people?
< 1292295064 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguolabial_consonant
< 1292295093 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the r proves IPA has a symbol for _everything_)
< 1292295184 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now make a language that has all the sounds of IPA, and a few new ones that are impossible for any people to ever speak.
< 1292295218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i would like to meet someone who can pronounce all of IPA
< 1292295254 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say
< 1292295254 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Do you even know of any such people?
< 1292295300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no, i'm not sure it's possible :)
< 1292295321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably two sounds in there that are impossible to pronounce with the same mouth, like it can only learn to use one and then it can't do the other
< 1292295322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something
< 1292295449 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make the game with a monster with two mouth
< 1292296271 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292296417 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Terminal fell off
< 1292296468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1292296560 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292297281 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, AIDS has been cured.
< 1292297471 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool
< 1292297683 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it money?
< 1292297953 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cureaidsinfo.com/ <<< oh so actually it was done in the 80's already
< 1292297989 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and apparently, once you've cured your aids at home, you can take up a new hobby & learn a new language
< 1292298034 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Bone marrow from someone immune to it!
< 1292298035 0 :Iwnda01!~nomad@pool-72-79-134-68.sctnpa.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292298056 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaand Pidgin is crashing.
< 1292298064 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In its JSON parser‽
< 1292298067 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does it have one?
< 1292298140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's not news
< 1292298188 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: No, but seriously. AIDS has been cured.
< 1292298249 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...more than one person?
< 1292298284 0 :Iwnda01!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to butt in but, there is no cure for aids.
< 1292298325 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh!
< 1292298328 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: No, but only due to the expense.
< 1292298363 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fucking hard to hunt down a bone marrow donor that is genetically immune to AIDS, and this happened by chance.
< 1292298372 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iwnda01: Yes there is.
< 1292298372 0 :Iwnda01!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not true. it's because HIV morphs so often it's apparently impossible to kill.
< 1292298390 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iwnda01: do you even know the case we are talking about?
< 1292298402 0 :Iwnda01!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i suppose i dont.
< 1292298408 0 :Iwnda01!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would all be news to me.
< 1292298409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iwnda01: Bone marrow transplant with someone actually *immune* to the virus.
< 1292298421 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iwnda01: Suddenly, all the immune cells in that person's body are immune to the virus.
< 1292298426 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so HIV goes away.
< 1292298430 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poof, cure for AIDS.
< 1292298438 0 :Iwnda01!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which person
< 1292298473 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are people genetically immune to AIDS
< 1292298473 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He was named only as "the Berlin patient" in the /New England Journal of Medicine/ and /Blood/.
< 1292298478 0 :Iwnda01!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how would we find out if they are immune without infecting them and/or possibly killing them in the long run
< 1292298483 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's genetic
< 1292298487 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can devise a simple test
< 1292298504 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i am pretty sure i saw a reddit post about him giving an interview under the full name
< 1292298508 0 :Iwnda01!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see, remove the fluids and test out of the body
< 1292298535 0 :Iwnda01!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he's got a trillion dollar body if he lives through all of the operations.
< 1292298549 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not one person
< 1292298557 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iwnda01: About 1% of Caucasians are immune to it, actually.
< 1292298565 0 :Iwnda01!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing.
< 1292298605 0 :Iwnda01!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's great news
< 1292298614 0 :Iwnda01!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they making any headway with it?
< 1292298663 0 :Iwnda01!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone been cured?
< 1292298673 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Research on easier/cheaper ways of doing it are in progress.
< 1292298699 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, a single person, who by *chance* needed a bone marrow transplant (leukemia), and his donor was immune to AIDS.
< 1292298702 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we can finally have start having unprotected buttsex with strangers
< 1292298704 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.aidsmap.com/page/1577949/?r=1 is the link currently on reddit
< 1292298704 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I said earlier.
< 1292298714 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a species
< 1292298747 0 :Iwnda01!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: that's looking at it with a hawks eye
< 1292298754 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: well you'd need to find an immune bone marrow donor first
< 1292298779 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iwnda01: i think you may not be acquainted with oklofok's particular brand of humor
< 1292298784 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, you have like 50 years to do that once you get the virus
< 1292298799 0 :Iwnda01!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i totally get him. i was just seeing which he was
< 1292298844 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: yeah but what if there _aren't_ any?  compatible donors are probably rare, immune people are rare...
< 1292298846 0 :Iwnda01!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :butt sex for everyone
< 1292298851 0 :Iwnda01!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who would want it...
< 1292298878 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually this one time, doctors told me i absolutely must have chlamydia, but then turned out i didn't; my conclusion is i'm immune to all std's
< 1292298897 0 :Iwnda01!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: you're in tall cotton
< 1292298913 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iwnda01: what does that mean?
< 1292298918 0 :Iwnda01!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, oklofok, am also the king pin.
< 1292298946 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get you at all
< 1292298983 0 :Iwnda01!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I don't get you either
< 1292298989 0 :Iwnda01!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice to meet you
< 1292298990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Uh, bone marrow donors are always compatible.
< 1292298991 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't not get me
< 1292298997 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: They start by removing your immune system.
< 1292298998 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: not in house
< 1292299002 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292299018 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The new bone marrow replaces it.
< 1292299026 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh they are?  i guess that makes sense.
< 1292299050 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: in that case it should be possible to _grow_ immune bone marrow, shouldn't it
< 1292299059 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possible.
< 1292299061 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought they stick a needle in the donor's back, take some shit outta there, and inject it in the other dude
< 1292299065 0 :Iwnda01!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stem cells?
< 1292299065 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poof done
< 1292299071 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iwnda01: king pin?
< 1292299072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iwnda01: yeah
< 1292299079 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who else is the king pin?
< 1292299109 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: After irradiating & chemotherapying the receiver of the marrow to kill the bone marrow and the white blood cells.
< 1292299113 0 :Iwnda01!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will farrel
< 1292299135 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: have you even *watched* house?
< 1292299150 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that sounds just crazy!
< 1292299159 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: I don't watch House, no.
< 1292299173 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: I prefer knowing how medicine actually works.
< 1292299204 0 :Iwnda01!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus house has a terrible attitude
< 1292299227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  oklofok: I don't watch House, no.   oklofok: I prefer knowing how medicine actually works.
< 1292299245 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :249)  oklofok: I don't watch House, no.   oklofok: I prefer knowing how medicine actually works.
< 1292299260 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what, you trust a dusty old ugly book more than SMART MEDICAL TYPE PEOPLE on tv?
< 1292299284 0 :Iwnda01!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :judge not the book by its dusty ugly cover
< 1292299301 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: hey you cannot trust anyone who's been spending time with blackadder
< 1292299304 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: ^ This explains the entire American political, intellectual, and cultural climate.
< 1292299329 0 :Iwnda01!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but judge the book once you read it thoroughly.
< 1292299336 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i learn all my math on numb3rs
< 1292299369 0 :Iwnda01!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats that oklofok
< 1292299375 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION se'hųku suru tiȳû

< 1292299384 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tijuu?
< 1292299388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: words to live by
< 1292299399 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: More like words to die by.
< 1292299410 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"/me is in the middle of seppuku"
< 1292299416 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iwnda01: show about... well no idea what but they have funny clips on youtube
< 1292299433 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok words to live by, very briefly
< 1292299436 0 :Iwnda01!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds about right
< 1292299438 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1292299461 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sort of hacking stuff probably.
< 1292299468 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Math.
< 1292299474 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: It claims to be about math.
< 1292299491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: which means it's probably about arithmetic?
< 1292299499 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure it *claims* that
< 1292299500 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1292299504 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :show about aritmetic
< 1292299506 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: No, it's about BULLSHIT.
< 1292299528 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Imagine if Treknobabble were done using mathematics jargon.
< 1292299531 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That.
< 1292299531 0 :Iwnda01!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION installs tuxmath

< 1292299537 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hey let's make a show where people do like REALLY BIG SUMS MENTALLY and all teh math ppl will luuuuurb it"
< 1292299537 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1292299576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2rGTXHvPCQ Also, this.
< 1292299584 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"we have to calculate the topological invariant to find the kleene closure of this klein vierergrouppe!"
< 1292299590 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gruppe or whatever
< 1292299602 0 :Iwnda01!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gruppe secks
< 1292299607 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's how hackers chat when they don't want to be overheard."
< 1292299611 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: hey no fair i was about to write some mathobabble myself!
< 1292299627 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can still do it, it's funny twice
< 1292299628 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it would, of course, take a *complete* moron to use IRC to be secretive.)
< 1292299634 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(SILC, perhaps, but IRC?)
< 1292299653 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, 1337.
< 1292299671 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHIPPING CHANNELS IN THE OCEAN
< 1292299677 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually the only clip i know
< 1292299681 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the show
< 1292299689 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...does 1337 have any interesting mathematical properties?
< 1292299730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: No, it's an incredibly mundane substitution cypher.
< 1292299773 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"OMG OMG THIS WILL BE OVER IN A SECOND" "SCREENSHOT QUICKLY BEFORE THE INFORMATION IS GONNEEEE"
< 1292299779 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F3-j-GQcts&feature=related OH MY GOD THAT HURTS
< 1292299805 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell [n | n <- 2:[3,5 .. 40], 1337 `mod` n == 0]
< 1292299812 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah no egobot
< 1292299872 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`which factor
< 1292299873 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/factor
< 1292299877 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 1337
< 1292299878 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1337: 7 191
< 1292299901 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT EVEN PRIME
< 1292299915 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i'm so confused i don't even know if that was a correct description
< 1292299917 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hypothesis: 1337 is the smallest uninteresting number
< 1292299921 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292299945 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: It was a bizarre mangling of the Chinese Room thought experiment and the Turing Machine.
< 1292299955 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Making it an interesting number.
< 1292299957 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i'm still not sure what happened there
< 1292299966 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's the joke
< 1292299968 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: shush, you
< 1292299978 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the chinese room experiment is ... which is called the turing test
< 1292299979 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: EXPLAINING THE JOKE MAKES IT FUNNIER
< 1292299984 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: true
< 1292300086 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so yeah he just mentions perfectly programmed computer = turing test while explaining the chinese room experiment... i think
< 1292300089 0 :Iwnda01!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292300121 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks for halting test clip

< 1292300177 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope :(
< 1292300193 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION clips a halting test onto oklofok 

< 1292300231 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pun-isher strikes again!
< 1292300272 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MOST DEFINITELY AM NOT ON STRIKE
< 1292300315 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying too hard
< 1292300354 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCinK2PUfyk <<< "i doubt you studied it *the usual way*!"
< 1292300446 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: The pain! The agony! The wrong aspect ratio!
< 1292300462 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"math math math math math math math. now let my use my brain to calculate the probabilities."
< 1292300493 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love this show, it's like watching puppies fighting to death
< 1292300501 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know it's really wrong
< 1292300503 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but oh god
< 1292300505 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't stop watching
< 1292300515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to be so bad it's good.
< 1292301264 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i can't find any math related clips
< 1292301268 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should watch the whole show
< 1292301290 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the math guy has written articles in low-dimensional topology, so probably he talks about that stuff
< 1292301326 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but only in a flat and linear way
< 1292301376 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noob, i work almost exclusively with 0 dimensional spaces
< 1292301417 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i guess you did as well, but couldn't make a pun out of that
< 1292301438 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION prefers dealing with n-dimensional spaces where n is in N and less than 0.

< 1292301441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cantor i won't
< 1292301448 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(quick, someone make that make sense!)
< 1292301459 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are many definitions of topological dimension
< 1292301467 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm not sure any of them allow subzero dimensions
< 1292301480 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: was that yours?
< 1292301481 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: iirc many of them coincide for zero, though
< 1292301485 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1292301521 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know this fact very well because many of the ppl doing math in our uni are actually computer scientists, they don't even seem to care what the definition is, because they just work with 0 dim
< 1292301527 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can consider the empty set to have dimension -1
< 1292301541 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1292301562 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the recursive sphere definition at least
< 1292301573 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dimension = dimension of sphere + 1
< 1292301577 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for metrics
< 1292301584 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*metric spaces
< 1292301637 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else is there.... d dimensions = open covers have a subcover where at most d+1 sets intersect at any given point
< 1292301645 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it work with that...
< 1292301654 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1292301656 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfectly
< 1292301662 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'm getting an erection
< 1292301677 0 :quintopi1!~quintopia@209.59.220.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292301681 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'm getting an erection
< 1292301690 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe that definition was the one used for the topological measures stuff
< 1292301710 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we used that in our ergodic theory seminar couple weeks ago
< 1292301716 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you need dimension at least 2 for things to be non-trivial)
< 1292301735 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for showing something like topological entropy = sup of measure theoretic entropies for different measures
< 1292301771 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" (you need dimension at least 2 for things to be non-trivial)" <<< what do you mean?
< 1292301803 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that subcover thing is "trivial" for 1d
< 1292301844 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for 0 it says that you can extract a clopen cover from any open cover... is that even true?
< 1292301845 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292301901 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i certainly didn't know that if it's true
< 1292301926 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292301933 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's for *refinements*
< 1292301957 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah obviously you can't always extract clopen covers
< 1292301971 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just take more than half the space in two open sets, but not all of it
< 1292301977 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then obv you need to take both, and get some overlap
< 1292301983 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for any definition of half
< 1292302034 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :refinement being a family of open sets U such that each u \in U is a subset of an open set in the orig cover
< 1292302056 0 :oerjan_!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302093 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also why am i here, i woke up at 5 so i could do some slides and then i just idle on irc
< 1292302095 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:42  oerjan> at one time i _thought_ i had a proof that if you had dimension >= 2 then you _did_ have nontrivial topological measures but it didn't survive my blackboard demonstration :/
< 1292302100 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:44  oerjan> ...what does that entropy supremum (i think i recall the theorem) have to do with dimension...
< 1292302114 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with leasurely topology technobabble
< 1292302146 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm what
< 1292302157 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay what's your definition of topological measure
< 1292302165 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because zero dimensional spaces have very nontrivial measures!
< 1292302215 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i've explained it before, they're a topological generalization of lebesgue measures, which are only defined on open and closed sets
< 1292302264 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which only need to be additive on partitions of the whole space into open and closed sets
< 1292302286 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean into clopen sets?
< 1292302292 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not into either
< 1292302293 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, either open or closed
< 1292302295 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1292302297 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each set
< 1292302303 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1292302325 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only finitely many (although we have a theorem that countable also works)
< 1292302331 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you say this thing is trivial for 0 dim and i assume the definition assumes a zero dimensional space :D
< 1292302337 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm smart ain't i :D
< 1292302346 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thing is trivial for <= 1 dim
< 1292302348 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
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< 1292302349 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
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< 1292302355 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
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< 1292302358 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292302358 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292302359 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292302359 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292302360 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by assuming you meant clopen partition)
< 1292302368 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292302373 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, all the examples become lebesgue measures
< 1292302442 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302442 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302446 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, but so what's the exact definition, any function to positive reals that's finitely additive on partitions into closeds and opens?
< 1292302470 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure you've explained this before, so sorry about having absolutely no recollection :P
< 1292302472 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it should be continuous
< 1292302485 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both-continuous?
< 1292302493 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1292302494 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1292302497 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the measure of an open set is the supremum of the measures of closed sets inside
< 1292302500 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302520 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay
< 1292302528 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302528 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302528 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-239-57.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302528 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-2-154.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302528 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302528 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302528 0 :mycroftiv!~ircguy@h69-128-47-242.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302535 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the additivity means that the dual also holds
< 1292302542 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1292302545 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302551 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finite measure?
< 1292302556 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1292302562 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i believe you but let's see
< 1292302572 0 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-140-166.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302572 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302572 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.251.165.38 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302572 0 :yiyus!~124271242@67.202.106.57 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302577 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1292302579 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obv
< 1292302597 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the basic theory the space is compact, connected and locally connected
< 1292302599 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know why i had to think about that
< 1292302601 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302601 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302601 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-39-38.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302601 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302601 0 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302601 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!~user@2002:5870:32ae::1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302601 0 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:32ae:1:4261:86ff:fe96:fca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302603 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the whole space
< 1292302603 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1292302605 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-173-239-57.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302625 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i almost never get to see such spaces
< 1292302626 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1292302634 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and also hausdorff
< 1292302640 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes they are connected, sometimes they are compact, but never both!
< 1292302652 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292302664 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait connected doesn't imply locally connected?
< 1292302668 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
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< 1292302679 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1292302680 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what it means but
< 1292302680 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck is going on
< 1292302680 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like it
< 1292302703 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Write error: Broken pipe
< 1292302716 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1292302729 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd say locally connected is a very weird term for that
< 1292302730 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :standard example is the space of {(x, sin (1/x)) | x > 0} union 0 x [-1,1]
< 1292302736 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-173-239-57.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302736 0 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:32ae:1:4261:86ff:fe96:fca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302736 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!~user@2002:5870:32ae::1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302736 0 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302736 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302736 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-39-38.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302736 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302736 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302736 0 :yiyus!~124271242@67.202.106.57 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302736 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.251.165.38 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302736 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302736 0 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-140-166.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302736 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302736 0 :mycroftiv!~ircguy@h69-128-47-242.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302736 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302736 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302736 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-2-154.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302736 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302736 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302736 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302736 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302736 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302738 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neighborhood basis of connected sets
< 1292302746 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :connected, compact, but not locally connected
< 1292302767 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded
< 1292302770 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i proved that's connected but not path connected in topology
< 1292302773 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, * x > 0 and x <= 1
< 1292302779 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it's not compact
< 1292302781 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iir
< 1292302781 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c
< 1292302788 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1292302794 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1292302802 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not path connected obv
< 1292302822 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302822 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed but it's not locally connected e.g. around (0,0)
< 1292302823 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's OBVIOUSLY connected
< 1292302827 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look i proved it again!
< 1292302860 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you need the entire height of the curve to connect different parts of it
< 1292302866 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1292302868 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i get it
< 1292302874 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think
< 1292302898 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i get it intuitively, but i'll have to think about the defs a bit
< 1292302915 0 :quintopi1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 322 seconds
< 1292302916 0 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292302946 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right you can't get ANY open set around origin
< 1292302949 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's connected
< 1292302974 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :locally connected doesn't imply connected? erm. of course it doesn't, disjoint union
< 1292302999 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know this conversation of ours would already make a pretty good tv show
< 1292303018 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>
< 1292303032 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would watch that show
< 1292303120 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the strange properties of these measures depends on it _not_ being possible to approximately partition any open set into small open or closed parts that you can add up
< 1292303141 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then all the youtube comments would be like "lol that's SO inaccurate, what he's saying is so totally only true if the measure has no atoms!"
< 1292303186 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but dimension <= 1 is equivalent to saying every open covering can be refined into a partition of the space into open and closed sets
< 1292303195 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :win 27
< 1292303195 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292303202 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292303244 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw this theorem doesn't use any of the connectedness assumptions on the space)
< 1292303258 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the <= 1 one?
< 1292303263 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1292303271 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are just needed to be able to construct examples nicely
< 1292303302 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i don't see why that thingie is true, but i suppose that's nontrivial?
< 1292303312 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay if it's dimensions 0 and 1, then i'm sure it's nontrivial
< 1292303328 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i don't know any properties those have others don't :d
< 1292303342 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take that usual refinement of a dimension <= 1 space, then by definition the open sets only intersect at most 2 at each point
< 1292303344 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually
< 1292303346 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right
< 1292303353 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for this to be a great tv show
< 1292303362 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need like a really stupid fbi guy
< 1292303367 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who asks stupid questions
< 1292303386 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"so you're saying a locally connected spaces is like a rabbit that sticks its head into a bush when it gets scared?"
< 1292303410 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1292303436 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? :D
< 1292303442 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that fbi guy
< 1292303483 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay walk me through it, how exactly do you make the partition
< 1292303488 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1292303494 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait a minute
< 1292303515 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if you look carefully at this refinement, the points that are in two given sets are of course in the open set that is their intersection
< 1292303531 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take open cover's intersections with all others, plus it minus the union of all the others?
< 1292303551 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess not...
< 1292303552 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh?
< 1292303564 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so walk me through it, how do you make the partition
< 1292303599 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, the points that are in just _one_ given open set of the refined cover and not in any other, form a closed set
< 1292303615 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or continue your explanation whatever :D
< 1292303617 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the complement of the union of the other open sets)
< 1292303621 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1292303630 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you explaining exactly this...
< 1292303632 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's look!
< 1292303637 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course!
< 1292303641 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1292303649 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assumed you assumed i'd just see it
< 1292303660 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it sounded so simple
< 1292303673 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not hard if you draw the sets on paper
< 1292303693 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have like 3d diagrams
< 1292303697 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of the refinement)
< 1292303698 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and flying numbers on the screen
< 1292303767 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" on the other hand, the points that are in just _one_ given open set of the refined cover and not in any other, form a closed set" <<< this was the part i didn't see, but yeah it's obvious now that you stated it explicitly
< 1292303783 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they form a bipartite graph, with the closed sets for the points in exactly one refinement set being one set of vertices, and the open sets for the points in _two_ refinement sets the other set of vertices
< 1292303785 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" (the complement of the union of the other open sets)" <<< and even more obvious after you gave the proof
< 1292303804 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and edges between sets that touch
< 1292303886 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1292303899 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true for all partitions gotten this way?
< 1292303913 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that obvious again...
< 1292303917 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@209.59.220.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292303943 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well of course it is
< 1292303946 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by definition of touch
< 1292303969 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1292303982 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the definition of touch?
< 1292303983 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292303987 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you could alternatively say edges between sets that come partially from the same original refinement set
< 1292303990 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is the fbi agent

< 1292303994 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1292304003 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i believe that is equivalent
< 1292304011 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :touch = their closures intersect
< 1292304018 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by "original refinement set" you mean "original set"?
< 1292304025 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh alrighty
< 1292304045 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well we started with an arbitrary open cover and than used the dimension to refine it
< 1292304051 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh indeed we did
< 1292304064 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*then
< 1292304102 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then this refined cover pretty directly gives this graph of open vs. closed vertices
< 1292304291 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but erm so
< 1292304335 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1292304367 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take [0, 1] with cover [0, 5), (0.4, 0.6), (0.5, 1], then (0.4, 0.5) and (0.5, 0.6) have intersecting closures even though both are intersection sets
< 1292304396 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that 5 doing there
< 1292304407 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1292304414 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0, 0.5)
< 1292304418 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 was visiting his aunt
< 1292304447 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm right
< 1292304459 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only test open sets for touching closed sets
< 1292304463 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not other open sets
< 1292304465 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :win 16
< 1292304473 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so then it's basically by def
< 1292304482 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: are these some sorta election thingies
< 1292304489 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: no
< 1292304499 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no other guesses
< 1292304534 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :common field sizes?
< 1292304554 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1292304580 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan_: wait where were we going with this graph thing?
< 1292304585 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a bit... distracted
< 1292304591 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should prepare for this talk thingie
< 1292304595 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but here i am
< 1292304630 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the graph is just a side thing
< 1292304661 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the thing is, this allows us to partition the whole space into tiny open and closed sets
< 1292304682 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.math.utu.fi/projects/jac2010/program.html <<< look i'm famous!
< 1292304706 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it certainly does do that
< 1292304734 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we had this really fun partition lemma in our seminar on beuhahrug spaces (i may remember the name wrong)
< 1292304743 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you make them small enough, the measure of any larger open set can be approximated as sums of tiny sets within... but in the limit this forces the measure to be a lebesgue measure.
< 1292304762 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1292304766 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool
< 1292304770 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I GUESS
< 1292304787 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was whose def?
< 1292304790 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean
< 1292304797 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this topological measure thing
< 1292304815 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :johan aarnes, the advisor of my collaborator alf rustad
< 1292304838 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :originally he called it quasi-measures
< 1292304844 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, guessed it was you ppl's or you wouldn't be the ones doing this basic research on it
< 1292304853 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it called basic research
< 1292304861 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fundamental essentials research
< 1292304862 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much
< 1292304947 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to define a lot of different things (used to meaning it was last months theme) but in the end i just always realize it's a known concept in disguise, so now i just try to take concrete problems others have stated and solve them
< 1292304958 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :month's
< 1292304998 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his original example of a quasi-measure was created as a counterexample to a conjecture
< 1292305011 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course that only works if you're willing to go far enough that open problems become solvable :D
< 1292305019 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool
< 1292305036 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i guess that's the sensible way to come up with new things
< 1292305047 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is usually more like LET'S TAKE THIS RANDOM THING AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS
< 1292305052 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about the linearity of certain functionals on C(X)
< 1292305063 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1292305087 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the measures are equivalent to certain functionals that are almost, but not necessarily quite linear)
< 1292305114 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they _are_ linear then they are lebesgue measures
< 1292305143 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1292305172 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose a measure gives you the functional "integral"
< 1292305173 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1292305187 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :precisely!
< 1292305200 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are they not linear
< 1292305208 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1292305228 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know too little about this stuff
< 1292305238 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUST
< 1292305239 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KNOW
< 1292305240 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERYTHING
< 1292305253 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riesz_representation_theorem#The_representation_theorem_for_linear_functionals_on_Cc.28X.29
< 1292305259 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously i know that
< 1292305261 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theorem
< 1292305267 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks

< 1292305267 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then :)
< 1292305279 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know the basic riesz repr theorem
< 1292305295 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that linear functionals are dot products
< 1292305297 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's that linear <=> lebesgue, in our case
< 1292305306 0 :NicolaeDebevec!~Nicolae@74.195.164.67 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292305317 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, Borel
< 1292305357 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however the "almost but not quite linear"
< 1292305370 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't know what a "lebesque" measure is, as an adjective
< 1292305373 0 :NicolaeDebevec!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292305381 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a measure defined on... lebesque sets? :D
< 1292305383 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1292305392 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i meant borel
< 1292305395 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1292305396 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k
< 1292305406 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the fuck?
< 1292305417 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the UK, you have to be over 18 to buy... Plastic cutlery.
< 1292305425 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for every function f in C(X), look at the sub-algebra C(f) generated by it.  then the functional should be linear on it
< 1292305457 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks

< 1292305470 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty.
< 1292305481 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that C(X) is _real_ functions.  if we were looking at _complex_ functions, then indeed this requirement _would_ force the entire functional to be linear.  i think this was an old theorem.
< 1292305506 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the conjecture which aarnes disproved was that this would hold for real C(X) as well
< 1292305521 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the functional should be positive too
< 1292305534 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think
< 1292305572 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the theory _has_ been generalized to signed measures/non-positive functionals too, in fact one of our articles was about it
< 1292305687 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh reals okay
< 1292305710 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my thinking went C... durrr... complex.
< 1292305753 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did such cool stuff
< 1292305760 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now C here is for continuous i think
< 1292305762 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no
< 1292305764 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all my theorems are really boring in comparison
< 1292305771 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1292305773 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm aware
< 1292305775 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292305793 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm aware that i also think that's where it probably comes from.
< 1292305794 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-239-57.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292305951 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1292305974 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*YES*.
< 1292305985 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how encouraging
< 1292305999 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a restaurant with ninja waiters.
< 1292306001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES.
< 1292306029 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but are they _french_ ninjas?
< 1292306033 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, no.
< 1292306044 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Halfway there, though!
< 1292306047 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION assumes pikhq got the reference

< 1292306052 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course.
< 1292306061 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why else do you think I was going "YES" so much? :)
< 1292306067 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, true
< 1292306082 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't get the reference
< 1292306124 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: tell me something in japanese!
< 1292306126 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1100/fv01076.htm
< 1292306127 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: You. Read Freefall.
< 1292306165 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that one, i recall seeing that furry chick
< 1292306167 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: あんた。フリーファル読め。
< 1292306184 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292306213 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anta?
< 1292306236 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A more casual form of あなた.
< 1292306244 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even completely get the sentence :(
< 1292306251 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You. Read Freefall."
< 1292306253 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNICODE ATTACK
< 1292306253 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freefall read "me"
< 1292306255 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lol
< 1292306283 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait oklofok knows japanese?
< 1292306285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :もっと日本語が欲しいか。
< 1292306286 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we haven't done any of the short forms
< 1292306292 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the course is sloooooooow
< 1292306296 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan_: He's taking a class.
< 1292306300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: I *told* you.
< 1292306311 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shall is something more japanese
< 1292306326 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Also, not doing the short forms of verbs first is a travesty.
< 1292306337 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: told me what? i got the sentence already if that's what you mean
< 1292306351 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: I told you not to take a formal class because it would be slow!
< 1292306362 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i think so too, because i see them all the time and i understand nothing outside the class therefore
< 1292306364 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292306390 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: The thing is, the short forms of verbs are the *actual root forms*. The conjugation goes from there.
< 1292306403 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just do masu
< 1292306412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But nooo, classes insist on teaching the teineigo conjugations.
< 1292306414 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also we've only done like 70 kanji
< 1292306425 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(-masu, -desu, etc.)
< 1292306431 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i don't even officially know the kanji for "read"
< 1292306442 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah we just do those
< 1292306461 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no one fucking ever uses them, at least in the shows i've tried to start watching
< 1292306468 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, that's horrifically wrong, and you will have to unlearn things.
< 1292306473 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1292306479 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i like a challenge!
< 1292306482 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The teineigo forms are very commonly used in normal Japanese, but *it's the wrong thing to learn first*.
< 1292306506 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(shows tend to use more casual Japanese than is otherwise normal, for a variety of reasons.)
< 1292306522 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright
< 1292306557 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the "quick japanese for business dudes" book does masu only, it just skips telling the basic forms of the verbs! :D
< 1292306574 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cuz it's faster to just learn masu and not ru + masu!
< 1292306577 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The worst part is, verb conjugation in Japanese is *really easy* if you start from the plain forms.
< 1292306668 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i'll probably take the second course anyway, it's not like i'll have enough free time next year to actually be able to study it on my own.
< 1292306676 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no, they insist on using the teineigo forms first so that you'll be less rude if you somehow find yourself talking to someone in Japanese after 6 months of taking the class.
< 1292306692 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though by that point you'll have trouble saying anything at all because they suck so hard.
< 1292306695 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully the unlearning i have to do occurs there
< 1292306731 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i could *easily* have a conversation about how good fish tastes.
< 1292306738 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sakana wa oishii desu yooo
< 1292306765 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should learn to write japanese on the computer, maybe.
< 1292306787 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :魚が美味しいですが、僕にはカレーが一番美味しい事だと思います。
< 1292306802 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, that's outside my kanjibility
< 1292306858 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :さかなが　おいしい　ですが、　ぼくには　カレーが　いちばん　おいしい　だとおもいます。
< 1292306897 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fish is good but you find curry the best
< 1292306900 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get the last word
< 1292306905 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1292306906 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, yeah, if you keep up with the classes, you will be permanently illiterate.
< 1292306913 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "datoo"
< 1292306928 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"da to omoimasu".
< 1292306939 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, probably. i'm not keeping up with the classes, i assure you 90% of our class couldn't read taht.
< 1292306940 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that
< 1292306982 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does "to" mean there
< 1292306988 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"as well as"? :P
< 1292307005 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, it's a fairly complex particle.
< 1292307016 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that much i know...
< 1292307027 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the sentence comes out as "Though fish is delicious, I think curry is the most delicious."
< 1292307046 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1292307059 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, you would be significantly better off spending all the time you would have on that class just watching anime without subtitles. *That alone* would be a massive improvement.
< 1292307071 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1292307073 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah possibly
< 1292307079 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuredly.
< 1292307084 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't find that as entertaining as a monotone lecture
< 1292307130 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, anime without subtitles might not be such a bad idea, watching it with subtitles isn't doing me much good at least.
< 1292307145 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because after a few minutes i stop listening
< 1292307152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the point is to *not* cling to the language you're fluent in...
< 1292307193 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still, for some reason i've always used subtitles for learning purposes.
< 1292307211 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that's intuitive as well
< 1292307226 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're a robot
< 1292307269 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is "to" always used with omoimasu?
< 1292307285 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see i just know omoimasu from the dictionary...
< 1292307308 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never actually seen it in a sentence before
< 1292307339 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why do you say boku *ni*?
< 1292307353 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that also omoimasu's fault?
< 1292307360 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm... Not entirely sure, actually.
< 1292307366 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1292307379 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The grammar of Japanese has gotten a bit automatic.
< 1292307397 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "ni" got added because that conveyed the sense I wanted. Somehow.
< 1292307455 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kinda got a sense of "*But as for myself*, ..." in this context, I guess?
< 1292307460 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's a bit like "X ni aimasu", like me as a person
< 1292307468 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno
< 1292307490 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just know it's a human postfix thingie
< 1292307503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest you just do Japanese often enough that everything happens without thinking about it.
< 1292307509 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as a couple (million) other things
< 1292307523 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR HOW ABOUT I ANALYZE IT UNTIL IT GETS A RESTRAINING ORDER?!?
< 1292307534 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your way is good too.
< 1292307537 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, don't. You'll never get good if you do that.
< 1292307554 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that was what the restraining order meant
< 1292307555 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1292307573 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much like you'll never get good at math by taking elementary/middle school/high school math courses.
< 1292307574 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. actually it's not really a good metaphor
< 1292307589 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. or even just by taking any courses.
< 1292307617 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You at least have a *chance* of getting good at math when you study for a math degree.
< 1292307628 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely
< 1292307647 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly the highest chance
< 1292307650 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still
< 1292307674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But below college? "You, too, can learn how to do everything that we have calculators for, but didn't when the curriculum was designed!"
< 1292307695 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292307709 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't get me wrong, manual calculation is a nice skill and all, but it really doesn't deserve to be a focus of *12 fucking years* of education.)
< 1292307731 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and done completely wrong, too
< 1292307758 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. i guess it's an okay way to teach it to people who don't want to learn it.
< 1292307760 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but other than that
< 1292307765 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The pacing on them is absurd.
< 1292307838 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arithmetic should *not* take several years to teach.
< 1292307888 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292307990 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's true
< 1292308009 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292308106 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'd like to beat whoëver designed the handling of fractions in primary education.
< 1292308127 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: May I join you?
< 1292308132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Depends.
< 1292308140 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm a math major
< 1292308152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: What are your thoughts on "improper" vs. "proper" fractions?
< 1292308215 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, who am I kidding. I know your thoughts on them. "WHY THE FUCK IS THAT A DISTINCTION"
< 1292308224 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: my thoughts on fractions are: teach pure fractions first. decimal notation etc. can come later
< 1292308261 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :improper/proper fractions is like 4 3/8
< 1292308262 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1292308266 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs 7/6
< 1292308270 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1292308284 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not wrong to draw a distinction
< 1292308289 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a math major and i totally think that's not a distinction, in most contexts. not this one.
< 1292308301 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, however, very very wrong to teach it so heavily like they do
< 1292308309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: The worst part is the notation used.
< 1292308314 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially because the notation is 4 3/8 which later on means 3/2
< 1292308322 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2¾ looks to me like 6/4, not 10/4.
< 1292308362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because dammit, that's how it's used anywhere outside of elementary school.
< 1292308442 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also strange is the insistence on things like using the LCD for adding/subtracting fractions with different denominators.
< 1292308464 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly, in elementary school, there should be separate classes for set theory, arithmetic, and problem solving
< 1292308471 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How often is it going to matter that you picked the *smallest* common denominator?
< 1292308491 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that math could take 3 times more time slots
< 1292308498 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: :D
< 1292308502 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also set theory?
< 1292308513 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set theory is the most important thing in the world
< 1292308529 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I've just heard lots of suggestions about elementary school education
< 1292308532 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and set theory was never one of them
< 1292308537 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally agree now that you think of it
< 1292308544 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we used to have that here, in the 70's or something
< 1292308554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: They tried it in the 70s. Problem: it was the same teachers.
< 1292308566 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the profs think those that was good, because students were not retarded back then, because of that
< 1292308568 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know, the ones that think that calculus is the highest that math goes.
< 1292308579 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh, I had one of those in high school
< 1292308585 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately the ones that didn't become profs, and had normal idiots as teachers, probably didn't have the same idea
< 1292308598 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1292308599 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what pikhq said.
< 1292308665 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't exactly drop arithmetic out, at least the ppl who aren't going to learn anything interesting anyway learn to count their money :D
< 1292308680 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably the worst part of primary/secondary math education is that it hardly ever touches on something very fundamental to the practice of mathematics.
< 1292308682 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logic.
< 1292308693 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+1
< 1292308702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Yeah, I don't think it should be *omitted*, I just think it's taught far too slowly and they put far too much of a focus on it.
< 1292308711 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION needs to remember to follow up with the people here who go through math+teaching

< 1292308751 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what do you mean "go through"?
< 1292308766 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sry i'm slow)
< 1292308772 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: math+teaching is a program here
< 1292308777 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh
< 1292308790 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have something like that too, prolly every uni does
< 1292308816 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically if you're good you do pure math, if you suck real bad you become a teacher
< 1292308818 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292308831 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not being an ass, it really is like that
< 1292308842 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on the ppl i know
< 1292308865 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The US system has you get a degree in education.
< 1292308868 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not just being
< 1292308874 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voila, you are magically qualified to teach everything.
< 1292308880 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1292308884 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? Because fuck making sense.
< 1292308902 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Yeah, we have a degree in education too. Except this program is a BMath + BEd program, so the teachers come out knowing nonzero math
< 1292308903 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in high school, you *might* start getting teachers with more qualifications. Maybe.)
< 1292308904 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had this religious nut as a teacher through 3-6 grade who didn't know anything about anything
< 1292308915 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except god
< 1292308920 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she knew a lot of bible stories
< 1292308929 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: in my experience, it wasn't /quite/ so bad
< 1292308932 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but close
< 1292308987 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the teachers have to learn stuff like group theory here too, it's just they pass the relevant courses with bad grades and forget the few things they memorized rote after the course.
< 1292308996 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: blargh
< 1292309016 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also a pure math with teaching option program
< 1292309029 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i said there is partly conjecture, have to admit
< 1292309040 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the requirements are actually far looser, but due to the requirement of pure math courses, basically no one goes through with it
< 1292309049 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone who does probably knows math properly
< 1292309055 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway, come on, they don't actually need it, the actual facts *will* be useless to them
< 1292309070 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the way of thinking that you'd like them to have
< 1292309090 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1292309092 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more importantly
< 1292309095 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want them to pass it on
< 1292309097 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they won't)
< 1292309118 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292309214 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292310268 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292310276 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need help going to sleep
< 1292310303 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should not have watched a let's play of an apocalyptic flash game
< 1292310318 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292310407 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't get tex4ht.  :P
< 1292310414 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292310415 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It didn't render my bibliography!)
< 1292310452 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do i need to do latex bibtex latex before htlatex?
< 1292311446 0 :oerjan_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1292311460 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292311518 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292311529 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1292311614 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292311683 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: oh nvm, doing all the latexing and bibtexing and whatnot made it render the bibliography right
< 1292312533 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose seeing large amounts of string APNIC in listing of >250k blocks allocated last month is not a good thing...
< 1292312592 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, unless your sensibilities are warped certain way... :-)
< 1292312596 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292312643 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APNIC: 3.19 /8s in RIR Pool
< 1292312657 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About 1.2 /8s to go...
< 1292312703 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is about 20 million IP addresses...
< 1292312793 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292312819 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292313254 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 210 368 addresses allocated this calender month. If this rate continues, X day is somewhere mid-January...
< 1292313324 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-6-248.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292313599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1292313600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292313917 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292314014 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292314194 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, if one makes pie chart of IPv6 pools + allocated, the slice for allocated isn't even visible...
< 1292314206 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, it is 0.027% anyway...)
< 1292314842 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1292314962 0 :atrapado!~rodrigo@193.144.79.241 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292315789 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292316285 0 :p_q!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292316442 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1292316894 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1292317176 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292318597 0 :p_q!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292318693 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292320511 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems that elliott's favourite algorithm evar, CubeHash, is not going to become SHA-3: http://crypto.junod.info/2010/12/10/sha-3-finalists-announced-by-nist/
< 1292320724 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blake, Grøstl, JH, Keccak and Skein...
< 1292320956 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292320977 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, that name containing the ø is pain to type...
< 1292320981 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292321041 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CubeHash seemingly has too much symmetry anyway...
< 1292321553 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They say they'll publish a proper report on why each algorithm was accepted or not.
< 1292321601 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292321662 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One more year of public comments, and then deliberations in 2012; they're probably going to get the standard published just before the end of the world.
< 1292321751 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make a program to handle compile errors of the C compiler, and then it changes the source-file and resubmit to the compiler. Example:  #errorhandler no_member(register_value,is_number) _register_value_is_number
< 1292321814 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another example:  #errorhandler no_member(something_else,) _something_else_bind
< 1292322003 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have various kind, such as: no_member, wrong_initializer, pointer_expected, function_expected, no_label, link_error, ...
< 1292322103 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What standard is that? Are you sure 2012 is the end of the world?
< 1292322147 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHA-3, and no, but it's often said to be.
< 1292322355 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have just finished playing a game titled "Square Circle". You do have to make a square circle in that game. They say you commit a crime that you are not allowed to know, but you can be freed if you make a square circle. But this is all a lie made up by the government.
< 1292323912 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nk
< 1292323993 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :url?
< 1292323997 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292324078 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292324080 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That "2012" end of the world is a complete misinterpretation of Mayan mythology. The dates don't even start to require 6 symbols (that's sometime in 4xxx or so)... :-)
< 1292324210 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently somewhere in end half of 48th centry...
< 1292324367 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you understand how to make a square circle?
< 1292324495 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Unix time_t to beginning of that day (in UTC) is 88 447 248 000...
< 1292324539 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no
< 1292324582 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292324765 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I don't see what 6 symbols would have anything to do with it; the world was also supposed to end in 2000 (also for non-y2k-computer-related reasons) and that's equally much just the most significant digit changing.
< 1292325002 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1292325294 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292325311 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like the year mayan calendar starts to require six symbols to represent dates is 4772...
< 1292325384 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, some writings contain six-symbol absolute dates.
< 1292325385 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Use these definitions of "square" and "circle":
< 1292325386 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Circle: A figure bounded by a circumference every point of which is equidistant from the centre.
< 1292325390 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Square: A figure bounded by four equal straight lines, each of equal length, such that the four angles between adjacent sides are also equal.
< 1292325396 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Straight Line: A one-dimensional figure forming the shortest path between two points.
< 1292325407 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now can you figure it out?
< 1292325428 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: The dreaded Y4772 problem, for all of us who stupidly allocated memory space for only five symbols in our Long Count using date systems.
< 1292325480 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then there's thing called distance dates. Some writings have absolutely huge distance dates.
< 1292325562 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and that day happens to be Friday the 13th... :-)
< 1292326397 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292326494 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292327597 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292327694 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292328717 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the more pessimistic estimate is back at January (30th).
< 1292328797 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292328895 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292329394 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292329413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :analysis of dynamic programs proves they're not dynamic at all: http://gnuu.org/2010/12/13/too-lazy-to-type/
< 1292329447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I was under the impression most people understood that 99% of stuff that happens in Ruby or Python could be done with practically no modification in a statically typed language with good enough type inference. Still, it's only 99%. The remaining 1% would be a serious pain to do with static types, which is why even the stalwart of static types, Haskell, has Data.Dynamic in case you really do need to stick arbitrary types somewhere."
< 1292329449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, over on reddit,
< 1292329465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone defends people using something awkward and problem-causing in 99% of the cases and helpful in 1%
< 1292329479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then demonstrates a case that's helpful and robust in 99% of the cases and slightly fiddly in 1%
< 1292329482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't realise it
< 1292329523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:55:11  Seems that elliott's favourite algorithm evar, CubeHash, is not going to become SHA-3: http://crypto.junod.info/2010/12/10/sha-3-finalists-announced-by-nist/
< 1292329531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yup, I found out N days ago.
< 1292329560 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where N ≤ 4)
< 1292329564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It was probably just rejected because they felt "nervous" about it as they say was the case for some algos their press release; presumably djb's black clothes and piercing stare stabbed right into their soul.
< 1292329576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Please, follow me around on the internet establishing upper and lower bounds for my placeholders.
< 1292329601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:04:01  CubeHash seemingly has too much symmetry anyway...
< 1292329602 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you insist, N = 4.
< 1292329623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Sorry, but I don't consider a one-line IRC statement more reliable than an excellent cryptographer :-)
< 1292329654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:25:55  I have just finished playing a game titled "Square Circle". You do have to make a square circle in that game. They say you commit a crime that you are not allowed to know, but you can be freed if you make a square circle. But this is all a lie made up by the government.
< 1292329654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What.
< 1292329666 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1292329703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:17:08  Ilari: The dreaded Y4772 problem, for all of us who stupidly allocated memory space for only five symbols in our Long Count using date systems.
< 1292329708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Convince me not to write a library that does this.
< 1292329717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, no, wait! Get ais523 to put it into AceHack.
< 1292329723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although he'll probably find that it /already/ has some of that.
< 1292329725 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:25? Are you in the USA now?
< 1292329737 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's in the army now.
< 1292329784 0 :reiffert!~thomas@mail.reifferscheid.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292329839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/10.12.14
< 1292329850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, I'm in the army, brutally mauling puppies.
< 1292329870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why I joined the /US/ Army to do that is anyone's guess.
< 1292329872 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, didn't notice you joined.
< 1292329893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Or, in other words, no, but clog is in the US.
< 1292329894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Army.
< 1292329901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably it mauls puppies in a brutal fashion over HTTP.
< 1292329969 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternatively, it doesn't denote AM/PM and is somewhere in Russia.
< 1292330025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Thank you, I vastly prefer that interpretation.
< 1292330040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Presumably "23:59:59" at the end of yesterday's log is 23:59 am.
< 1292330084 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Earth does have 4 corner simultaneous 24 hour days, you know.
< 1292330094 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292330110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Do you just have a bank of possible references to reply to almost any statement? :-P
< 1292330112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[1.5 Lua seems very verbose. Why isn't it like C?
< 1292330112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The compactness of C (and the Unix environment in which it grew up) comes from the technical limitations of very clunky teleprinters. Now we have tab completion and smart editors which can do abbreviations, so it doesn't really take more time to type Lua than C.]]
< 1292330120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how they don't bother mentioning *reading* the code at all.
< 1292330137 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not "any", no.
< 1292331197 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292331294 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292331329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  i love this show, it's like watching puppies fighting to death   you know it's really wrong   but oh god   you can't stop watching
< 1292331937 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292331974 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292332343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hi
< 1292332375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1292332397 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292332399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, re: should the first revision contain an empty / directory, I'm not sure; shouldn't the first revision add that?
< 1292332405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to continue an hours-old conversation...)
< 1292332419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, [[cpio]] has an infobox just titled "cpio" that lists information for GNU cpio
< 1292332425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :systematic bias ahoy
< 1292332494 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292332661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm
< 1292332663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "For instance, the size of the cloned git repository (all history, branches, tags, etc.) for the Linux kernel is approximately the size of the checked-out uncompressed HEAD, whereas the equivalent checkout of a single branch in a centralized checkout would be the compressed size of the contents of HEAD (except without any history, branches, tags, etc.)."
< 1292332672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wikipedia suggests (to me) that git compresses everything
< 1292332681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so perhaps it /does/ have multiple copies of Linux in there, just compressed
< 1292332688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably compressed relative to each other, too
< 1292332742 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1292332829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: BTW http://projects.haskell.org/camp/
< 1292332838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a darcs offshoot research VCS
< 1292332842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet more competition to scout out :-P
< 1292332849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coq-formalised, too
< 1292333119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU All-Permissive License
< 1292333119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    This is a simple permissive free software license, compatible with the GNU GPL, which we recommend GNU packages use for README and other small supporting files. All developers can feel free to use it in similar situations.
< 1292333119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Older versions of this license did not have the second sentence with the express warranty disclaimer. This same analysis applies to both versions.
< 1292333122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, gnu have their own ISC license
< 1292333125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gnu.org/prep/maintain/html_node/License-Notices-for-Other-Files.html
< 1292333175 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Seriously, that name containing the ø is pain to type...
< 1292333188 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAVE _NO_ IDEA WHAT YOU'RE BABBLING ABOUT
< 1292333221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we'll just replace it with an o, Orjan
< 1292333228 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that tl at the end doesn't look particularly norwegian/danish
< 1292333231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets swiftly banned

< 1292333261 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i already replaced it with oe, duh
< 1292333389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah but oe is actually vaguely accurate :D
< 1292333410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you'll be pleased to know i mentally pronounce your name as "oar-dshjan"
< 1292333420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where dshj is a combination of dj and sh-n
< 1292333436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: or on a good day, oer-JAn
< 1292333442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where J is hard
< 1292333445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what i mean
< 1292333450 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i already heard you pronounce it, remember?  hm it seems you've deteriorated then
< 1292333485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah that was when I had any sort of pretence of being able to get it right
< 1292333541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the j should definitely not be an affricate
< 1292333547 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The backscroll is too long to read, so this might have been mentioned already: but git initially just stores each file into a separate file named after the hash (so identical files are stored only once, but it doesn't use delta-based representation); then every now and then when it deciders to stick all the free-floating objects into a compressed pack file, there it uses both full files and deltas.
< 1292333636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow: "    The license is a free software license, incompatible with the GPL. It permits relicensing under a certain class of licenses, those which include all the requirements of the Jabber license. The GPL is not a member of that class, so the Jabber license does not permit relicensing under the GPL. Therefore, it is not compatible."
< 1292333649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is that the first license incompatible with the GPL /because it aims to be more compatible/?
< 1292333659 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know how it decides which files to store "deltified" and which "undeltified" -- Official Terms from http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/technical/pack-format.txt -- or whether it uses the revision-history relationships to look for candidates to deltify.)
< 1292333668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: right, it's just scapegoat makes much less sense than git, so it's hard to understand how its storage model applies :D
< 1292333684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: considering the whole thing's mostly based on patching patches.
< 1292333728 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to get into your blameable-mammal discussion, it's already too long to jump in; that was just an aside.
< 1292333780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the basic problem is: checking out revisions is Hard when you have to trace N diffs for large N and reassemble the result. But storing multiple copies of the whole tree at periodic points sounds Big(TM).
< 1292333800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so the question was basically "wait, how come linux's git tree isn't very big at all really, but checkouts are still fast?".
< 1292333826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: clever: [[The reason that this is useful is for the "camp send" command. Rather than, as in darcs, having a separate concept of a "patch bundle", and a separate "camp apply" function to apply them, we can just use the "camp pull" command. We get the interactive patch selection etc for free.]]
< 1292333938 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the way git decides what to pack and where is "magic": http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/technical/pack-heuristics.txt (that's convoluted IRC discussion about it is the official documentation, it seems)
< 1292334014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I've seen this file before...
< 1292334017 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/'s//
< 1292334056 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Big Brother Is Phishing You.
< 1292334076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But, summarise it for me: If we have a crazy recursive patch system that takes an awful long time to check out a revision, and we use this to store full copies of (things) at various (points in time), and (possibly compress them), can this give us fast checkouts without huge repositories?
< 1292334081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SURELY AN EASY QUESTION TO ANSWER
< 1292334141 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With sufficient magic, I'm sure it can! (Read: I'm still not going to get involved here.)
< 1292334159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: BUT IT'S THE BEST VCS /EVER/
< 1292334206 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'll be sure to try it out after you have made it.
< 1292334236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Are you *sure* you want to commit to that?
< 1292334260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You'll have directory trees cluttered up with +scapegoat! Can you even *talk* to a man who would name a directory entry that?
< 1292334280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And really, immutable functional weenie storage -- do you trust people like that?
< 1292334289 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, not going with Gregor's not-in-anyone's-font-ever GOAT? Well, still.
< 1292334318 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if mutation was good enough for darwin...
< 1292334341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can you TRUST a program that, when discussed about, was so hopelessly generic that the command "sg give-me-a-reasonable-cwd" was discussed?!
< 1292334342 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I would like my weenie to be safe...
< 1292334360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOUR WEENIE WILL NOT BE PROTECTED FROM THE GOAT AT ANY POINT IN TIME
< 1292334576 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292335153 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292335196 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292335351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292335482 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1292335497 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292336292 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1292336297 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292336394 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292336536 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292337442 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1292337716 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292337818 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-13-110.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292338201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One-operand OISCs without accumulators. Discuss.
< 1292338260 0 :reiffert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O is?
< 1292338319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reiffert: ?
< 1292338325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reiffert: Oh, One.
< 1292338331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/OISC
< 1292338378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/RSSB is 1-operand, but has an accumulator; http://esolangs.org/wiki/TOGA_computer is two-operand, with no accumulators.
< 1292338455 0 :reiffert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION raises the Bushmills flag

< 1292338632 0 :reiffert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OISC without accumulator translates like OISC without registers, slow and direct addressing required?
< 1292338669 0 :nooga!nooga@156.17.4.19 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292338738 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haa
< 1292338914 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: nice topic
< 1292338993 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mu
< 1292339584 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mu?
< 1292339627 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_(negative)
< 1292339662 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1292339873 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292340274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sorry about not replying earlier, I was in a meeting and it looks like the wireless went down when I was there
< 1292340284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, that's okay
< 1292340292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reiffert: who cares about speed :)
< 1292340300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did you see the messages, though?
< 1292340306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, clog :P
< 1292340434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the most recent nickping of yours that I saw before I rejoined was  ais523: clever: [[The reason that this is useful is for the "camp send" command. Rather than, as in darcs, having a separate concept of a "patch bundle", and a separate "camp apply" function to apply them, we can just use the "camp pull" command. We get the interactive patch selection etc for free.]]
< 1292340442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the most recent, or should I clog?
< 1292340494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, there's more before that
< 1292340505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I saw everything before
< 1292340508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292340511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just showing the last oen
< 1292340512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*one
< 1292340627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Any replies re: empty directory on first change; camp?
< 1292340633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Two questions.)
< 1292340699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say the repo doesn't, platonically, exist at all until there's something in it
< 1292340712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, yes, but I mean what "sg init" creates
< 1292340727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: obviously, it needs 1 patch in there, that everything else is based on, right?
< 1292340747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think so, yes
< 1292340789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but checking the directories is how you determine if two repos are currently the same project or not, effectively
< 1292340797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can split them apart and join them, but that's an explicit change to the arrangement
< 1292340807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, if you didn't have any changes at all, how would you know where to commit?
< 1292340817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, we need to decide whether the repo's created by sg init or sg commit
< 1292340828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second would be perverse, but has a certain logic to it
< 1292340838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in which case, sg init would just set the metadata ready for a repo to be created)
< 1292341002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, one could argue that, if you need 1 god patch to base everything on, there's no reason it can't be the first
< 1292341013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't say "but you need a patch to base patches on!" and then say that 1 patch doesn't need to be based on any
< 1292341094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :directories don't need to be based on anything
< 1292341108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you can't merge them together without adding a relationship between them and some other directory
< 1292341113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure they do; patches don't have an "insert X", they just have "append X after Y"
< 1292341118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need an Empty Directory to base things on
< 1292341125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with... one item
< 1292341126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inexplicably
< 1292341129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, no items
< 1292341138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"insert new empty file in Z" only requires a directory to insert it in
< 1292341140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then how do you add an item?
< 1292341147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, consider a file with 0 lines
< 1292341149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you append a line?
< 1292341186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"add 'x' between start of file added by 5, and end of file added by 5"
< 1292341213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :giving BOF and EOF their own hashes would probably make the actual storage a little simpler
< 1292341231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the point is just what they're added between, which is the start and end of the empty file
< 1292341254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough
< 1292341259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what about the fact that directories are unordered?
< 1292341263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't have "add X between"
< 1292341314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just have "add X into"
< 1292341322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "between" is only important for preserving order
< 1292341328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't care about preserving order, you just give the parent
< 1292341353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. if you have a directory containing files called a.txt and d.txt, you don't want to conflict on adding b.txt just because someone else added c.txt
< 1292341358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor would there be any sensible reason to do so
< 1292341380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so directories have different operations from files because they're inherently different structures
< 1292341401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(likewise, if you were versioning, say, a key-value store, you'd have "add into", "change", "delete" because order doesn't matter)
< 1292341664 0 :nopseudoidea!~nopseudoi@85-168-235-235.rev.numericable.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292342236 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292342664 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292343037 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292343234 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292343266 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-2-154.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292343370 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292343686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292343824 0 :nopseudoidea!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292344372 0 :nopseudoidea!~nopseudoi@85-168-235-235.rev.numericable.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292344641 0 :nopseudoidea!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1292345077 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292345101 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292345368 0 :augur_!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292345605 0 :Alhwawi_!~alhawi@2.88.19.125 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292345618 0 :Alhwawi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi
< 1292345639 0 :Alhwawi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any one here
< 1292345641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1292345654 0 :Alhwawi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How r u
< 1292345689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alhwawi_: this channel is about programming btw
< 1292345980 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah at the topic
< 1292346197 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :¬confused → ¬understood, And it is well known that being confused about something means you don't understand it. Thus ¬understood → confused. Which means ¬confused → confused.
< 1292346291 0 :Alhwawi_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://www.roomsapp.mobi
< 1292346304 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we are confused, then we might have understood it. And since I feel this is pretty confusing, I'd say that confused is true. However, I can't from that conclude I understood it since we have an implication at hand (not an equivalence)
< 1292346322 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, is my analysis of the topic you set correct?
< 1292346330 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MU
< 1292346353 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what is the right question then?
< 1292346364 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MU
< 1292346377 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cackles evilly

< 1292346386 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292346406 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ Topic for #esoteric set by oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no at Mon Dec 13 05:50:37 2010 <-- from this we can conclude you set the topic, thus I'm not asking the wrong person (if you changed something else then that's your own fault)
< 1292346407 0 :Alhwawi!~alhawi@2.88.19.125 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292346412 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@97-124-39-38.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292346418 0 :Alhwawi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any one here ??
< 1292346434 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1292346452 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292346459 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :∃x : in-#esoteric(x)
< 1292346467 0 :Alhwawi!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292346489 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, did the unicode work for you?
< 1292346498 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(iirc you got it working some time ago?)
< 1292346499 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um no
< 1292346509 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, was \exists
< 1292346549 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my font includes little outside latin scripts
< 1292346559 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh. Tried dejavu?
< 1292346583 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't tried anything
< 1292346832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ¬confused → ¬understood, And it is well known that being confused about something means you don't understand it. Thus ¬understood → confused. Which means ¬confused → confused.
< 1292346837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: wow you're like a master of formal logic
< 1292346867 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, stop being sarcastic
< 1292346880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. wait, let me reconsider. no.
< 1292346881 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it was of course not serious meant
< 1292346933 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the whole "And it is well known that being confused about something means you don't understand it" bit is obviously bogus (using confused in another, though related, sense)
< 1292346934 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it doesn't look like it supports windows...
< 1292346944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's just a ttf.
< 1292346947 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ... what? it is just a true type font
< 1292346959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people use it on windows
< 1292346963 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know very little about fonts
< 1292346975 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just didn't see any mention of windows on the page
< 1292346978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://sourceforge.net/projects/dejavu/files/dejavu/2.32/dejavu-fonts-ttf-2.32.zip
< 1292346979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p
< 1292346981 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. not sure that symbol is from it. It looks badly hinted
< 1292346990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drag contents to Control Panel -> Fonts
< 1292346997 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the system might be picking it from elsewhere
< 1292347067 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is suspicious that the mono is sans serif only...

< 1292347102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it is.
< 1292347152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Luxi Mono I think has decent unicode support, and is serif'd
< 1292347166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in http://xorg.freedesktop.org/releases/individual/font/font-bh-ttf-1.0.2.tar.bz2
< 1292347177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the luxim* files
< 1292347187 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292347194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea how much unicode it does, though
< 1292347194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1292347195 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe i'll try that instead
< 1292347209 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, unless he has extremely high res screen, then serif isn't very good on screen
< 1292347229 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm already used to serif, is all
< 1292347231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that is incorrect.
< 1292347233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott
< 1292347244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't think telling oerjan "your opinions are wrong!" is productive at all
< 1292347255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *most systems render serif in an ugly way?
< 1292347266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen serif rendered well on screen, but it's rare
< 1292347267 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh, you mean he use a line printer for irc?
< 1292347277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you use terrible settings, though
< 1292347283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (and so do most people/OSes)
< 1292347295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, this OS renders much better than most of the others I use
< 1292347305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst is probably Adobe Reader on CentOS
< 1292347314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which manages to screw up kerning incredibly badly
< 1292347326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's as if any given pair of letters is kerned at random
< 1292347337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enough about this, let's talk about everyone's favourite subject -- scapegoat!
< 1292347344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(EVERYONE'S)
< 1292347364 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wouldn't a normal res screen, but larger, brighter, and further away, give pretty much the same result as a high res screen?
< 1292347390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, your eyes have faeries in them and would blind you if you tried to do that.
< 1292347409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: obviously no, it has a lower bandwidth
< 1292347417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming that it has the same refresh rate)
< 1292347446 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ... wait, you mean for the GPU<->display connection?
< 1292347449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: applying communications theory to font rendering doesn't normally work, but it can at least prove the most egregious statements wrong instantly)
< 1292347455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, for the screen<->eyes connection
< 1292347484 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm. Lower bandwidth how?
< 1292347495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's just less information being sent
< 1292347527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. the pixels are coarser, so the shapes of the letters aren't as defined, and that has nothing to do with the brightness of the screen
< 1292347558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I assumed that by "normal res" and "larger" you meant, say, "1024x768, but on a larger monitor"
< 1292347567 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err, did I say res? I meant dpi
< 1292347568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose "resolution" is ambiguous in this context
< 1292347577 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: should i copy the entire archive to Fonts, or just the contents of the ttf/ directory?
< 1292347587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: just the .ttf files.
< 1292347613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you *may* need to extract the archive to a normal directory first, but dragging is worth a try.
< 1292347669 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so if it scales so the size in your field of view is the same, and the size of each pixel is the same, then you just need to take care of light level (since the light is not unidirectional). Maybe focusing distance would cause an issue
< 1292347676 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what I was wondering about
< 1292347689 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/cause an issue/be an issue/
< 1292347885 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah this looks horrible
< 1292347922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: JUST INSATLL UBUNTU AND ALL; YK OUR PROBLEMS WIL BE FIX
< 1292347964 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also i'm suspicious that putty didn't say anything about it containing any chinese or japanese characters, in fact the list of scripts was precisely the same as for courier new
< 1292347976 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does windows try to use other fonts if it can't find anything in the current font for a given codepoint?
< 1292347999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no it just puts a little picture of adolf hitler there
< 1292348009 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ....
< 1292348010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i didn't actually check if it has jewnicode :D
< 1292348012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: windows might i don't know, but putty certainly doesn't
< 1292348020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(adolf hitler hates jewnicode, that's why he replaces the glyph)
< 1292348023 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: er...
< 1292348031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: by jewnice i mean unicode.
< 1292348034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*jewnicode
< 1292348038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually a jew plot.
< 1292348040 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I suspect elliott is sleep-deprived
< 1292348042 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understood that
< 1292348047 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well so am i
< 1292348049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: just trying to help out
< 1292348084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: UBUNTU EVERY SONG OF THE DOVE IS IXED
< 1292348086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FXIED
< 1292348127 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, anyway, *if* windows or putty tries to find the symbol in other fonts, then dejavu sans has \exists
< 1292348175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh yeah cuz substituting a non-mono character in mono text is just a great idea
< 1292348209 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, let me check mono too
< 1292348232 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mono has it too
< 1292348236 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so your point is moot
< 1292348248 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: putty doesn't even try to substitute the CJK characters that i do have in other mono fonts
< 1292348256 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1292348267 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to use the selected font, only
< 1292348269 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but shouldn't this be handled by the system text rendering API?
< 1292348278 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and happen transparently to the application
< 1292348280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if you answer, Vorpal will start ranting about your OS.
< 1292348302 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i suspect putty more than windows on this point
< 1292348304 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, look, on linux it happens in cairo or fontconfig or something. It is just as messy
< 1292348312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that won't stop you :)
< 1292348317 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should actually upgrade putty, it's probably from 2006
< 1292348320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why not just use a windows irc client... i mean it's just an idea :P
< 1292348331 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I could rant about the linux implementation too
< 1292348336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://the.earth.li/~sgtatham/putty/latest/x86/putty.exe
< 1292348399 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm not sure where text rendering should happen. On one hand, there is a good case for not putting it in the display server. On the other hand, having it everywhere is a messy solution too
< 1292348412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: shouldn't it just be a library.
< 1292348420 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also e.g. IE _does_ substitute when i look at the logs e.g., but the mononess is ruined
< 1292348422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"servers" are basically useless
< 1292348433 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so what will elliotOS do?
< 1292348435 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tt*
< 1292348443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever you see a server in linux, it's usually a library that does privileged stuff but that is called from user code
< 1292348446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which unix can't handle
< 1292348448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it has to be a server
< 1292348456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :server as in X server not httpd
< 1292348569 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, where will elliott OS do font rendering?
< 1292348616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: in your heart
< 1292348662 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ...
< 1292348702 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur
< 1292348759 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+22D8 VERY MUCH LESS-THAN ⋘  <--- "much less than" I knew about, but this one I never heard of before
< 1292348859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :⋘⋘⋘⋘⋘⋘⋘⋘⋘⋘⋘⋘⋘⋘⋘
< 1292348876 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I found no "way way less than" sadly
< 1292349196 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw you said that substituting non-monospace for monospace missing codepoint is bad. Yes indeed. But is it worse than not being able to show the information?
< 1292349252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :information is in your mind
< 1292349260 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is not an answer
< 1292349742 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1292349799 0 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292349833 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There is, however, ⪡ and ⫷; 2AA1 and 2AF7, double/triple nested less-than.
< 1292349845 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jm
< 1292349846 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm*
< 1292349863 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : information is in your mind  elliott, that is not an answer <-- last I saw
< 1292350149 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: There is, however, ⪡ and ⫷; 2AA1 and 2AF7, double/triple nested less-than.
< 1292350222 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, you're alive!
< 1292350223 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that interpreter is slow.' wrong: there are 3 different tape types... no ends... one end... 2 ends and c begins... and otherwise. i just check if one is willing to fight chuck norris. :p
< 1292350307 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wazzaaa
< 1292350354 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I still want my duel.
< 1292350759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you there?
< 1292352304 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1292353245 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ever used nexttoward() ?
< 1292353265 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or nextafter)
< 1292353298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nope.
< 1292353301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't touch math.h generally.
< 1292353316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially floats.
< 1292353316 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, seems python has no mapping for nextafter() hm
< 1292353322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Floats make me cry.
< 1292353330 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, these are for double
< 1292353331 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not float
< 1292353337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1292353344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't you write it in Python, given the double epsilon?
< 1292353370 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, presumably I could. The trick is figuring out said epsilon
< 1292353467 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1292353470 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, OR I could just create a binding with cython :D
< 1292353484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: While x>0 { y=x; x/=2 }; return y
< 1292353528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: wait, does python even have doubles?
< 1292353536 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, float in python is double
< 1292353544 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it doesn't have single precision float
< 1292353549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh right double is float
< 1292353553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought double was fixed-point there
< 1292353592 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1292353610 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how do you use the epsilon now again to figure out how far it is to the next point, since the actual distance between the points you can represent will vary over the range
< 1292353622 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PYTHON FOLLOWS THE IEEE 764 FLOATING POINT STANDARD
< 1292353634 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MEAN 754
< 1292353636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: THAT'S NICE TO KNOW
< 1292353638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY ARE YOU TELLING US
< 1292353645 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounded relevant
< 1292353654 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't does it? 1.0/0.0 is not inf
< 1292353657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, how do you use the epsilon now again to figure out how far it is to the next point, since the actual distance between the points you can represent will vary over the range
< 1292353659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was assuming fixed-point
< 1292353663 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah
< 1292353666 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, it isn't
< 1292353729 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, besides fixed point would be highly inconvenient for this thing, since I need to work both with small number (0.00284 or so say) and huge numbers (10^40 or that range)
< 1292353741 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even larger
< 1292354171 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292354336 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139220.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292354447 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You are at the mercy of the underlying machine architecture (and C or Java implementation) for the accepted range and handling of overflow." So the spec (2.6, 2.7, 3.1 all have the same text) doesn't exactly guarantee IEEE-754, but it might often be.
< 1292354450 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Throwing an exception at 1.0/0.0 is perfectly valid, in fact one of the optional alternatives in the standard; though I guess for full compliance there should be some way of disabling it, and that -- the fpectl module -- is not built by default, it seems.)
< 1292355483 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In My Egotistical Opinion, most people's C programs should be indented six feet downward and covered with dirt."
< 1292355502 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.junauza.com/2010/12/top-50-programming-quotes-of-all-time.html
< 1292355855 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[44. "I have always wished for my computer to be as easy to use as my telephone; my wish has come true because I can no longer figure out how to use my telephone."- Bjarne Stroustrup 43. “Computer science education cannot make anybody an expert programmer any more than studying brushes and pigment can make somebody an expert painter.”- Eric S. Raymond]]
< 1292355878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Want to CODE FOR ME?
< 1292355883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also, why did you quote esr.
< 1292355884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whyyyyy.
< 1292355885 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two idiots. But which is right most times per day? There's only one way to find out...
< 1292355891 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some good ones in the comments too
< 1292355891 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIIIIIIIIGHT!
< 1292355892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hey, Bjarne Stroustrup isn't an idiot.
< 1292355895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's evil, sure.
< 1292355898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But he's not an idiot :P
< 1292355920 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so those "spoof" interviews when he admits C++ was an evil plot were actually true?
< 1292355937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Pretty much! (Actually it's more like: he's a decent guy who had a really, really terrible idea and still hasn't realised that yet.)
< 1292355976 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remind me again of the well-articulated reasons C++ sucks/
< 1292356011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ow ow ow ow ow ow pain ow.
< 1292356025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: When parsing your language is Turing-complete, it's time to find a new language.
< 1292356027 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Well*-articulated.
< 1292356037 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh, operator overloading?
< 1292356053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Nope.
< 1292356054 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or templates?
< 1292356055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Templates.
< 1292356058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Because of <>
< 1292356058 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1292356063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< can be either less than or open template.
< 1292356067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay, that's just context-sensitivity.
< 1292356075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall if parsing it is TC, but IIRC it is.
< 1292356080 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, parsing Perl is TC.
< 1292356087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know.
< 1292356087 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure about C++.
< 1292356182 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[44. "I have always wished for my computer to be as easy to use as my telephone; my wish has come true because I can no longer figure out how to use my telephone."- Bjarne Stroustrup 43. “Computer science education cannot make anybody an expert programmer any more than studying brushes and pigment can make somebody an expert painter.”- Eric S. Raymond]] <-- assuming the first one i
< 1292356182 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s ironic (which seems patently obvious), it says something about modern landline telephones...
< 1292356194 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second one seems more idiotic
< 1292356208 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is because ESR is fractally wrong.
< 1292356225 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His whole worldview is wrong, and if you zoom in on any part of that worldview, it's still wrong.
< 1292356249 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: Pretty much! (Actually it's more like: he's a decent guy who had a really, really terrible idea and still hasn't realised that yet.) <-- arguably the original "C with objects" was not quite as bad as what C++ turned out as
< 1292356335 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that said, C with object wasn't exactly good either. But it it wasn't the nightmare that modern C++ is
< 1292356343 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :objects*
< 1292356442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[
< 1292356442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :26. "In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they’re not."
< 1292356442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Yoggi Berra]]
< 1292356443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr.
< 1292356445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate that quote.
< 1292356453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theory doesn't match practice --> theory sucks.
< 1292356471 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory that's a good quote
< 1292356494 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in theory, the theories do match practise, in practise they don't ;)
< 1292356509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ...that's what the quote said
< 1292356521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just reproduced it almost word for word.
< 1292356535 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to agree with elliott there
< 1292356570 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually what you did too
< 1292356575 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Theory doesn't match practice --> theory sucks.
< 1292356581 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what the original quote said too
< 1292356585 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most theories suck
< 1292356606 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just really a pessimistic worldview
< 1292356608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no, it isn't
< 1292356615 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it implies that
< 1292356615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not even remotely what the quote said
< 1292356618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't.
< 1292356622 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes it does
< 1292357616 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[24. "PHP is a minor evil perpetrated and created by incompetent amateurs, whereas Perl is a great and insidious evil, perpetrated by skilled but perverted professionals." ]]
< 1292357624 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would that PHP were minor.
< 1292357731 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[7. “Most software today is very much like an Egyptian pyramid with millions of bricks piled on top of each other, with no structural integrity, but just done by brute force and thousands of slaves.”]]
< 1292357753 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That shows blatant ignorance of the construction of the pyramids.
< 1292358453 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's not minor, it's a minor evil.
< 1292358466 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Compared to Perl, PHP is downright refined.
< 1292358480 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1292358509 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely that puts Perl so far into language hell it's squishing C++?
< 1292359289 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292359292 0 :griffiw!~griffiw@hc65279a9.dhcp.vt.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292359303 0 :griffiw!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292359497 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1292359605 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP is definitely a great evil.
< 1292359613 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl, however, is clearly the work of Morgoth.
< 1292359794 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl 6 4 life yo
< 1292360148 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calling PHP evil is an insult to all the properly evil languages (like perl)
< 1292360158 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP is just stupid
< 1292360298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ping
< 1292360662 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Perl makes C++ look downright angelic.
< 1292360815 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Stupidity is a high form of evil.
< 1292360965 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't think so, for one stupid people usually don't mean any harm by what they're doing
< 1292360966 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, pikhq seriously?
< 1292360981 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl, otoh, is deliberated :P
< 1292360995 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Perl 6 will make Perl 5 look squeaky-clean :P
< 1292360998 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Quite.
< 1292361038 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, those who refuse to acknowledge that they are stupid, or worse, take pride in their stupidity, are being evil.
< 1292361038 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, where lies the evil in Perl?
< 1292361075 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$_
< 1292361085 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it the boring, bloody-minded evil of PHP and C++ taken to the extreme, or is it creative, Malbolgey evil?
< 1292361087 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc, in PHP's case the original author(s) have freely admitted not having a clue
< 1292361114 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: $_ is no longer implicit in Perl 6
< 1292361128 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it can be accessed through the alternative name ""
< 1292361162 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: With PHP it's incompetence. With C++ it's overengineering. With Perl, it's boldfaced evil.
< 1292361165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Please tell me the empty string actually evaluates to $_.
< 1292361165 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ...???
< 1292361175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: As in,
< 1292361178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: '"' '"'
< 1292361183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Rather than (empty string) :P
< 1292361186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus
< 1292361190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print "" foreach @blah
< 1292361217 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ah, so Malbolgey evil that everyone else is too stupid to see?
< 1292361247 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Most people see it. It also has CPAN :P
< 1292361254 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a malbolgey evil disguised as usefulness
< 1292361290 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, so it's Malbolgey evil that everyone sees but ignores because...?
< 1292361301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION downloads j602a_linux64.sh.

< 1292361304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only sane programming environment!
< 1292361306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or close, anyway.
< 1292361314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Because it's BRILLIANT, Malbolgey evil.
< 1292361319 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Because it's easy to write a lot of code quickly in it ... so long as you never need to read it again.
< 1292361325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: $ wget http://www.jsoftware.com/download/j602a_linux64.sh
< 1292361327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Post haste!
< 1292361361 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, tell me what it is immediately.
< 1292361373 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, J ... too bad it doesn't handle ~ in my keymap, and ~ is a frequently used operator
< 1292361383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: J, version 602, Linux 64-bit edition.
< 1292361386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*602a
< 1292361386 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, that's evil that is worthy of respect.
< 1292361391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Whut? It's just Java-based, the UI.
< 1292361400 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, cool or evil?
< 1292361412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The only sane programming environment! Proprietary but them's the breaks
< 1292361418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's like APL.
< 1292361423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's basically ASCII APL :P
< 1292361434 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, APL the notorious?
< 1292361437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Here's a program to compute the average of an array: +/%#
< 1292361446 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm... I wonder how they managed to break Java :/
< 1292361448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ is addition, / means "over" (fold, like foldr in Haskell)
< 1292361449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% means divide
< 1292361451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# means length
< 1292361453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+/ % #
< 1292361455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sum divide length
< 1292361462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+/%#) 1 2 3 4 ====> 2.5
< 1292361468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :avg =: +/%#
< 1292361473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :avg 1 2 3 4 ====> 2.5
< 1292361478 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that the open-source APL derivatives suck?
< 1292361486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Pretty much :P
< 1292361489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's just A+ and it's lame.
< 1292361496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K is super-proprietary and not even free.
< 1292361500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :J is nice and cosy.
< 1292361559 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: Most people see it. It also has CPAN :P <-- the tool or the website? the website is not bad as such. Modelled after the godly ctan iirc
< 1292361571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctan is more painful than godly.
< 1292361592 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how is ctan painful?
< 1292361603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it is.
< 1292361619 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which bit of it annoys you
< 1292361630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The painful bit.
< 1292361638 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the concept of a central repo for latex packages?
< 1292361650 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to presume you hate that
< 1292361659 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you are completely unhelpful
< 1292361665 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "java64: not found"
< 1292361668 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not impressed.
< 1292361674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have to edit bin/jwd.
< 1292361676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/java64/java/.
< 1292361677 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, why java64?
< 1292361690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The UI is Java-based, but the language itself is written in C :P
< 1292361701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Let me put it this way: J and Python are the only languages oklopol likes.
< 1292361719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he only likes Python because it gets his crazy shit done :P
< 1292361721 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python? Eugh.
< 1292361723 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if hash java64 2>/dev/null; then
< 1292361725 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, see?
< 1292361731 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial to check for
< 1292361734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ...what relevance does this have at all?
< 1292361736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover didn't write it.
< 1292361742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're criticising someone else entirely's programming.
< 1292361751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we know it's trivial. we can program perfectly well thank you very much.
< 1292361751 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it looked like your?
< 1292361759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did you infer that?
< 1292361763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, *yours.
< 1292361777 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he said: " elliott, "java64: not found"  Not impressed." <-- looked like he complained about your code
< 1292361780 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Could not find the main class: jx/frames/J. Program will exit.]]
< 1292361781 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read it out of context
< 1292361784 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it will look the same
< 1292361796 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DO YOU MOCK ME
< 1292361800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Whut.
< 1292361801 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's THREE errors now.
< 1292361804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What command did you run?
< 1292361823 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./jwd
< 1292361833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: In what directory?
< 1292361838 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, what, does it fail at altgr or?
< 1292361851 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: specifically, dead keys
< 1292361855 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, ah
< 1292361859 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, that's nasty
< 1292361875 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, file a bug?
< 1292361878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I had no such error; what directory?
< 1292361892 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, j*/foo
< 1292361895 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, bug report that is
< 1292361897 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bin
< 1292361902 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I chose an easier path and stopped using their product
< 1292361904 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HATE YOU BRAIN
< 1292361907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: do you have java?
< 1292361908 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, that works too
< 1292361927 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I HAVE BEEN PLAYING MINECRAFT WITH YOU FOR TWO WEEKS
< 1292361935 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES I HAVE JAVA
< 1292361940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: are you suuuuuuuuure?
< 1292361958 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, NO, I HAND-JITED IT.
< 1292361964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so
< 1292361975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: try running from outside bin :P
< 1292361977 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ah. I was a bit scared there. That you would have java
< 1292361983 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fires up hexl-mode

< 1292361988 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, why not hand-JIT J?
< 1292361988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ...why?
< 1292361997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you need hexl-mode?
< 1292362001 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for hand-jitting. Duh
< 1292362023 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SAME ERROR
< 1292362050 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, my Java is OpenJDK.
< 1292362087 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw, checked recently, openjdk works with minecraft alpha
< 1292362089 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I have sun-java6-bin installed.
< 1292362093 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292362094 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least with downloaded one
< 1292362097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Get rid of openjdk, then.
< 1292362101 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, check /etc/alternatives
< 1292362110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Um, or use update-alternatives.
< 1292362112 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why, openjdk works fine with minecraft
< 1292362113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not meant to change those yourself.
< 1292362117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And because OpenJDK clearly doesn't work with J.
< 1292362134 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, true, but checking /etc/alternatives != changing it there
< 1292362143 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, checking is good for finding out WHERE it goes
< 1292362154 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how do I change it?
< 1292362158 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so my statement was correct
< 1292362161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Try removing *openjdk* :P
< 1292362165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: update-alternatives can show that.
< 1292362171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: As in sudo aptitude purge *openjdk*
< 1292362171 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not as fast
< 1292362180 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it involves reading help output first
< 1292362186 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to ls -l
< 1292362223 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm assuming that glob is metaphorical.
< 1292362233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: nope
< 1292362276 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "Couldn't find any package blah blah blah "*openjdk*""
< 1292362289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aptitude search openjdk
< 1292362290 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wheres alice been? :(
< 1292362293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove all "i"s
< 1292362295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: right here!
< 1292362298 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat
< 1292362303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: i'm ehird :P
< 1292362308 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o man wat
< 1292362312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you... didn't realise this?
< 1292362316 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firstly, i thought you had one l and one t
< 1292362319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i had a sex change!
< 1292362321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a MAN now
< 1292362336 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second, no, i thought you were some random kid named elliott
< 1292362341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i am
< 1292362344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some random kid named elliott :P
< 1292362354 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man, ive been hostile towards you for no reason :(
< 1292362359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292362362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good to know i'm that dislikeable
< 1292362363 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome
< 1292362364 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hugs elliott

< 1292362370 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed you are!
< 1292362375 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now go die in a fire
< 1292362383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.26:16:54:28  elliott: what
< 1292362383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.28:16:45:17  elliott: what
< 1292362383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.11.12:02:30:37  elliott: what
< 1292362383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.11.26:16:40:15  elliott: you're talkative
< 1292362383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.11.26:16:40:19  elliott: http://www.jaybirdgear.com/cart/sb2/#
< 1292362384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.11.28:14:47:16  elliott is agreeing with me on something
< 1292362385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.12.01:19:58:24  elliott: deny
< 1292362387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.12.06:12:04:29  elliott: but thats because performance is not competence
< 1292362389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: man, so hostile
< 1292362393 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knowing you're ehird, now i HAVE a reason
< 1292362416 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i ended up not getting those you know
< 1292362434 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got a pair of sony's
< 1292362443 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still bluetooth, but not jaybirds
< 1292362454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than radio-based wireless ones at least
< 1292362460 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1292362465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those ones have constant fuzz and if you don't play audio for too long -- I'm not joking here --
< 1292362466 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the jaybirds were bluetooth too..
< 1292362467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they go to white noise
< 1292362468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOUD white noise
< 1292362470 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oic
< 1292362472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: oh, i was just commenting in general
< 1292362474 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine are fine
< 1292362476 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, more errors!
< 1292362477 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sound great
< 1292362478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, you just sit there... haven't played music in a while
< 1292362479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT
< 1292362481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what now
< 1292362493 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i missed you :(
< 1292362496 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a POPUP
< 1292362501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes, that's the introduction.
< 1292362508 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In hideous Java blue.
< 1292362508 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ironic, since you were here the whole time
< 1292362514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you can change that.
< 1292362522 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saying "Load library file:bin/libjnative.so failed."
< 1292362524 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how can you live with wireless headphones?
< 1292362530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wait, is your system actually 64-bit?
< 1292362531 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they are laggy
< 1292362532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i don't any more :P
< 1292362537 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, stuff doesn't sync up
< 1292362540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...although lag was not my complaint, what?
< 1292362543 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, at least in my experience
< 1292362544 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as opposed to?
< 1292362546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the radio ones are fine with lag
< 1292362549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just terrible at everything else
< 1292362553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: um, as opposed to 32-bit linux
< 1292362554 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really being very 64-bit?
< 1292362556 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm talking of video sound being out of sync with the bluetooth ones I tried
< 1292362565 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being 53 bit but not telling anyone?
< 1292362565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: uname -r
< 1292362567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it end with x86_64?
< 1292362569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1292362571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*amd64
< 1292362575 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, compared to plain cable ones
< 1292362584 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.6.32-5-amd64
< 1292362586 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is 64-bit.
< 1292362586 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which work fine, don't need battery, and give better sound
< 1292362590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: huh.
< 1292362592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah yeah
< 1292362609 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, beat my DT150 with wireless. Good luck
< 1292362619 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, the FSF have some mysterious marker on java -version, so I am SUSPICIOUS
< 1292362620 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sb live + DT150 that is
< 1292362629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i don't use wireless.
< 1292362637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :java version "1.6.0_18"
< 1292362638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenJDK Runtime Environment (IcedTea6 1.8.2) (6b18-1.8.2-4)
< 1292362638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM (build 16.0-b13, mixed mode)
< 1292362640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did that happen.
< 1292362655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: WELP I TOTALLY APPROVE OF ICEDTEA YOU SHOULD INSTALL IT
< 1292362679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome, java doesn't do font fallback
< 1292362680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a boss
< 1292362712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it does
< 1292362721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1292362736 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: monads!
< 1292362736 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292362754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Users can add a physical font as a fallback font to logical fonts used in Java 2D rendering by installing it in the lib/fonts/fallback directory within the JRE."
< 1292362756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: gonads
< 1292362759 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D:
< 1292362889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, fallback thing doesn't work
< 1292362909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292362912 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292363338 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reinstalls all Javay things.

< 1292363397 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...And it still won't work.
< 1292363443 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate it when things don't go through fontconfig.
< 1292363476 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a central point for this configuration! I don't *want* your dumb-ass ways of handling it!
< 1292363488 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292363497 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: if you can replace fontconfig with something less XML-loving and make it universal, I will love you forever)
< 1292363617 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, comment in the context of @.
< 1292363638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: @ has no configuration.
< 1292363641 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, I will Leave And Never Come Back if you don't declare that XML is banned from @.
< 1292363644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It renders fonts in the perfect way, as determined by me, God.
< 1292363656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, it'll have an XML parser... for feed reading, say :P
< 1292363687 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can't you configure it by messing around with the rendering code?
< 1292363704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: NO. It is protected.
< 1292363710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: By the same notion, everything is configurable because we have text editors.
< 1292363720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INDEED
< 1292363747 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes, but in @ everything is adjustable at runtime.
< 1292363750 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow.
< 1292363834 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAGIC
< 1292363889 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, what happens when you meddle with code that's being executed?
< 1292363908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Your bunny turns into a fluff.
< 1292363914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is as cute as it sounds, too.
< 1292363935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: More realistically: It works.
< 1292363940 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed, but what happens to the computer/
< 1292363951 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How?
< 1292363979 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmm, milkshake...
< 1292364026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, if you edit an executing function, nothing will happen, but the next time it's called...
< 1292364039 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hmm.
< 1292364040 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Deewiant: down?
< 1292364052 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite.
< 1292364059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: If you want to change a tight-looping function while it executes, use the debugger.
< 1292364072 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah.
< 1292364085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. hit pause/break or some similar key, step a few times if you want to, and tell it to change the code, then exit the debugger and continue.
< 1292364089 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you still need to restart your web browser if significant changes are made to the code?
< 1292364102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really; I would imagine a web browser is composed of a good many functions.
< 1292364123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the main loop was compiled to be non-recursive (looping instead) and you modified that, then maybe. But I'd like to see if I can't make it update the code in that case too.
< 1292364131 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but presumably some of them are going to run for a very long time.
< 1292364146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's no actual main loop; FRP.
< 1292364148 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything that waits for user input, for instance.
< 1292364152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything is just event --> reaction in the simplest case.
< 1292364155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Asynchronous.
< 1292364166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, your browser won't even hard-loop like that, since it's based on an event-based GUI toolkit.
< 1292364176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that in @, /everything/ is asynchronous and you use FRP to do all effects.
< 1292364278 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DO NOT KNOW THESE WORDS
< 1292364291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What, "asynchronous"?
< 1292364303 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FRP!
< 1292364308 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard-loop!
< 1292364315 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Event-based!
< 1292364318 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Effects!
< 1292364321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hard-loop = loop :P
< 1292364329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your browser, when it pops up a dialogue box, doesn't freeze.
< 1292364336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's not in a loop; it's doing everything normally.
< 1292364346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just has an event set up for "dialogue-box-clicked-OK".
< 1292364445 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re earlier topic, Bluetooth wireless headphones + Linux was indeed a really very laggy combination; but the same headphones were markedly better (lag-wise) in some other systems. Maybe the others do some sort of lag-compensating guesswork, who knows.
< 1292364710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone have a tool to merge two fonts?
< 1292364724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. A+B => C where if char c not in A, char c in C, taken from B
< 1292364729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but otherwise char c in C, taken from A
< 1292364836 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FontForge might be capable of that, but the user interface (if you can call it that) is so confusing, no-one can tell.
< 1292364857 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001f5b00390f-CM001e6b2335dc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292365198 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you trying to create an all-encompassing unicode font?
< 1292365221 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quit
< 1292365283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Just trying to merge Droid Sans Mono with fallback DejaVu Sans Mono, for J, which doesn't do fallbacks.
< 1292365289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Wanna TRY IT OUT FOR ME? :P
< 1292365358 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that made a difference
< 1292365358 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you extend a class to allow fallbacks?
< 1292365460 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION 's eyes hurt

< 1292365464 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1292365479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: it's not OSS, so no.
< 1292365497 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone else noticed that linux audio has really gotten lame in the past year or so, skipping and etc?  I wonder if something happened to the driver for my card
< 1292365531 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it goes back more than a year now, I lose track of time
< 1292365555 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seemed to start around the same time as that pulseaudio stuff, but that could just be a coincidence
< 1292365567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't
< 1292365570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pulseaudio is the worst.
< 1292365606 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but pulseaudio isn't in the kernel, right?
< 1292365662 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was assuming if I selected ALSA, then I avoided pulseaudio messing me up
< 1292365700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: not unless you uninstall pulseaudio
< 1292365710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: it reroutes ALSA's library to go to pulseaudio, which then goes to ALSA
< 1292365721 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see
< 1292365722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: note: if you're on ubuntu, uninstalling pulseaudio = no volume control
< 1292365752 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm also not sure if KDE 3.5's audio stuff is screwing me too
< 1292365786 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they had added yet another layer of crap lol
< 1292365805 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not even alsamixer?
< 1292365823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Well, sure, that will work.
< 1292365831 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh ok
< 1292365831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: You're using KDE 3.5 still?
< 1292365838 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1292365851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Don't; use Trinity.
< 1292365859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: (Maintained fork of KDE3.5, being ported to Qt 4.)
< 1292365864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/
< 1292365868 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCKING AWESOME!!!!
< 1292365917 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh maybe it just changed names, lets see
< 1292365942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: hm?
< 1292365945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what changed names
< 1292365952 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, this seems different
< 1292365975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: what did you think changed names?
< 1292365977 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was using this before deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/kde3-maintainers/ppa/ubuntu lucid main
< 1292366003 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, there it is
< 1292366016 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so I'm using the same one
< 1292366041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're still on lucid? :-P
< 1292366045 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1292366128 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to upgrade right away, but I got tired of stuff breaking so now I upgrade a release behind
< 1292366151 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :upgrade to something that's already old: FUN
< 1292366203 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you use kde 3.5?
< 1292366245 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err Trinity
< 1292366292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: nope, I use gnome :P
< 1292366309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: more out of convenience than anything else
< 1292366330 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I put gnome onmy new work lptop because I do realize kde 3.5 is crufty
< 1292366342 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seems alright
< 1292366363 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they removed all the features they could for a while and it stabilized
< 1292366453 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the earlier KDE always reminded me of some kind of Windows 3.1/95 mix.. however the later KDE was better looking at they never removed features.. instead they just scrapped the entire thing and put ot KDE 4 lol
< 1292366492 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only went to KDE3 because I was afraid of what Gnome would remove next.. there was one release where you couldn't even edit the menus
< 1292366648 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be fair, though, the menu stuff was more of an outside standards effort that they adopted.. but they definitely could have waited a bit on that one
< 1292366735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares about linux anyway
< 1292366736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or X11
< 1292366739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... uh
< 1292366740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keyboards
< 1292366747 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody actually likes X11 any more.
< 1292366804 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I bet there is some freak that does
< 1292366822 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol if I had to choose between keyboard and mouse, the rodent would lose out
< 1292366932 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't use xman exclusively due to it's amazing ui?  oh wait, neither do I
< 1292366983 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*its .. when did I start screwing that one up?
< 1292367682 0 :tswett!~Warrigal@arch06.cis.gvsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292367719 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :LASCIATE OGNE SPERANZA, VOI CH'INTRATE | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1292367738 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sentence written on the door to Hell.
< 1292367748 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, there are lots of sentences.  Like, nine or something.  That's the last one.
< 1292368710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, moving average is easy in J.
< 1292368728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"4 avg\ v" -- window is 4
< 1292368866 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :filter(ones(1,4), 1, v) in MATLABy things; not "quite" as nice.
< 1292368941 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides that a Haskell moving average would fit within eighty characters.

< 1292369055 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: whats your opinion on scheme again
< 1292369056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Go on, then :P
< 1292369063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: it's a racket
< 1292369094 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: racket?
< 1292369095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, seriously, someone merge two TTFs for me.
< 1292369097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinite praise.
< 1292369100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: A swindle, no less.
< 1292369108 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, fine.  :P
< 1292369113 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wat :|
< 1292369130 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's consider a list, like [1,7,2,5,3,8,9,4,2,7,3].  Then you just...
< 1292369136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: tswett: Also, it only counts if you use a predefined "avg" function.
< 1292369141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That you can substitute for any function.
< 1292369143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To make moving.
< 1292369180 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, down?
< 1292369182 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map (avg . take 4) . tails $ [1,7,2,5,3,8,9,4,2,7,3]
< 1292369211 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a good size for an interpreter of a "minimal" language?
< 1292369216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: um, in what? bytes?
< 1292369218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language?
< 1292369226 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Okay: mean(buffer(v, 4, 3)). (Except you can't quite substitute "any" function there; but most do it right by default.)
< 1292369247 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funnily enough, that will take the average of [1,7,2,5], then of [7,2,5,3], . . ., then of [4,2,7,3], then of [2,7,3], then of [7,3], then of [3], then of [], at which point the program will crash.
< 1292369247 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a Lisp, implemented in anything, counting tokens
< 1292369252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Cheater :P
< 1292369258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: counting tokens? pg got to you eh?
< 1292369281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Anyway it's a meaningless question without specifying the implementation language.
< 1292369282 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah; you can count LOC if you'd rather
< 1292369283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Now fix it :P
< 1292369302 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you can use any language you want.
< 1292369322 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I just want an order-of-magnitude estimate
< 1292369328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: then the question is meaningless :)
< 1292369347 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buffer(v, 4, 3) gives [[0; 0; 0; v(1)] [0; 0; v(1); v(2)] [0; v(1); v(2); v(3)] [v(1); v(2); v(3); v(4)] ... ], and most functions that make sense for a vector do their operation separately for each column.
< 1292369387 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ok, we'll start with c. what size is a C interpreter for Lisp
< 1292369403 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1292369406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: BTW:
< 1292369408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   4 (+/%#)\ 1 7 2 5 3 8 9 4 2 7 3
< 1292369408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.75 4.25 4.5 6.25 6 5.75 5.5 4
< 1292369410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Good luck beating that.
< 1292369416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Uh, 100-200 lines? C is pretty verbose.
< 1292369434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: That includes the avg function.
< 1292369510 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so 700 lines of Haskell is way too long?
< 1292369514 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :octave:6> sum(buffer([1 7 2 5 3 8 9 4 2 7 3], 4, 3, 'nodelay'))/4
< 1292369514 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ans =
< 1292369514 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   3.7500   4.2500   4.5000   6.2500   6.0000   5.7500   5.5000   4.0000   3.0000
< 1292369524 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's a bit longer. And repeats the window width thrice.
< 1292369528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: definitely. if the language is minimal in even the slightest, definitely.
< 1292369530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it isn't
< 1292369536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :700 lines of haskell could control nukes :)
< 1292369541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Psht.
< 1292369547 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nuke controllers aren't that complicated.
< 1292369550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Shaddap.
< 1292369556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OK, now define a function that takes a window size and a list and moving-averages them.
< 1292369574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: mavg=:(+/%#)\
< 1292369596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: You too. :p
< 1292369618 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"f = @(w, v) mean(buffer(v, w, w-1, 'nodelay'))" if you don't mind using mean.
< 1292369625 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/f/mavg/ if you like.
< 1292369653 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 'nodelay' is a bit debatable; it zero-pads in front if you don't include that, but according to someone's definition that might be the right thing.
< 1292369706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OK, now write a function that produces a screwy TABLE OF AVERAGES OR SOMETHING, like so: http://sprunge.us/MThf
< 1292369713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The last column is the moving averages, the first is the list itself; not sure what the list inbetween is.
< 1292369727 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map negate
< 1292369732 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A nuke controller in Haskell.
< 1292369737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, it's each window size from 1 (just return the list directly) to the size you specify.
< 1292369743 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Requires a relatively "smart" API.
< 1292369745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: With the moving averages for each window being a column.
< 1292369779 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop being like that, it's going to be pretty ugly.
< 1292369783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 3D version does nothing interesting, unfortunately. :P
< 1292369789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's okay, I like ugly!
< 1292369797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: At least it'll teach people not to call J ugly. :P
< 1292369853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mmavg is (add over divide length) infix infix", what's so hard about that!
< 1292369862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(When each element is pronounced :P)
< 1292369922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: SO HOW'S IT GOING
< 1292370103 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://p.zem.fi/gp4u I HOPE YOU'RE HAPPY NOW.
< 1292370111 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not identical due to lack of nodelay.
< 1292370124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Does yours handle >1D arrays?
< 1292370144 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not. It almost didn't handle window width of 1 either.
< 1292370221 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think buffer deals with matrices sensibly, you'd have to do something else, probably another arrayfun over a list to do the buffering.
< 1292370225 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to try that.
< 1292370241 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MATLAB's pretty horrible when you just want to map.
< 1292370257 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least Mathematica has that funky /@ operator or whatever they called it.
< 1292370276 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292370277 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elsewhere, now.
< 1292370332 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1292370413 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292370457 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292370569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292370924 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1292370980 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1292371163 0 :oklofok!~oklopol@xdsl-83-150-123-242.nebulazone.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292371288 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1292371591 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh
< 1292371915 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292371953 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292372499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: uh?
< 1292372505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I'm waaiiiitiiiing. :p
< 1292372674 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please write a C program, at most 415241 characters long, that calculates pi to one million decimal places.
< 1292372744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: That's not difficult, is it.
< 1292372777 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, too lenient.  It must be at most 165373 characters long.
< 1292372786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Can it print in hex as long as the result is 1 million decimal places when converted to decimal?
< 1292372802 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my gf went to a girl's party
< 1292372821 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, if it's accurate to one million decimal places.
< 1292372901 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and got back completely stoned
< 1292372904 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gerat
< 1292372906 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great
< 1292372948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Just a minute then.
< 1292373004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Or a few minutes.
< 1292373066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Is it alright if I, uh, steal some code from elsewhere and adapt some of it?
< 1292373067 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.spoj.pl/ranks/PIVAL/lang=C here's some that are limited to 4096 bytes (no code, though).
< 1292373080 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They presumably could go to 1 million given enough time
< 1292373086 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: only if that code is written in plain English.
< 1292373100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: What if it's written in mathematicalformulas?
< 1292373107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mathematical formulas
< 1292373133 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are fine.
< 1292373172 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292373354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Oh fer gods sake, this is fiddly; I was just going to do http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bailey%E2%80%93Borwein%E2%80%93Plouffe_formula in an infinite loop.
< 1292373364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: That's an easy way to print the entirety of pi with a simple program.
< 1292373367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In hex, no less.
< 1292373388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you don't need any arbitary-precision this or whatever.
< 1292373399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Aha, wait, I think I've got it.
< 1292373410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Gimme a minute.
< 1292373556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Why do you want this, anywy?
< 1292373558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*anyway
< 1292373693 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No good reason.
< 1292373992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: this is SO NEARLY ALMOST SORT OF WORKING
< 1292374177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: are you trying to kolgomorov complexitise pi? :P
< 1292374237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: btw i cheated *slightly* (stole one single expression that is just a basic arithmetical calculation restated in python)
< 1292374240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to be a bit lazy
< 1292374393 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1292374534 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292374750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Think I've got it.
< 1292374796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: 245 foo.c
< 1292374798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett:
< 1292374799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include
< 1292374799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include
< 1292374799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(void){printf("3.");for(long double n=1,r,l=0;n<1000000;n++){printf("%x",(int)floorl(16*(l=(modfl((16*l)+(((120*n-89)*n+16) / ((((512*n-1024)*n+712)*n-206)*n+21)),&r)))));fflush(stdout);}printf("\n");}
< 1292374804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Valid C99, or something in that vicinity.
< 1292374813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Verification of the one million hex digits is left as an exercise to the reader.
< 1292374819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, that can be even shorter.
< 1292374851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :243 foo.c
< 1292374853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include
< 1292374853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include
< 1292374853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(void){printf("3.");for(long double n=1,r,l=0;n<1000000;n++){printf("%x",(int)floorl(16*(l=(modfl((16*l)+(((120*n-89)*n+16)/((((512*n-1024)*n+712)*n-206)*n+21)),&r)))));fflush(stdout);}printf("\n");}
< 1292374871 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292374875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Are you happy? :p
< 1292374893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(void){printf("3.");for(long double n=1,r,l=0;n<1000000;n++){printf("%x",(int)floorl(16*(l=(modfl((16*l)+(((120*n-89)*n+16)/((((512*n-1024)*n+712)*n-206)*n+21)),&r)))));fflush(stdout);}puts("");}
< 1292374896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One shorter! Oh the joy
< 1292374899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*joy!
< 1292374948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include
< 1292374948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include
< 1292374948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(void){printf("3.");for(long double n=1,r,l=0;n<1<<20;n++){printf("%x",(int)floorl(16*(l=(modfl((16*l)+(((120*n-89)*n+16)/((((512*n-1024)*n+712)*n-206)*n+21)),&r)))));fflush(stdout);}puts("");}
< 1292374950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shorter AND prints more digits!
< 1292374965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the results of that one are fishy.
< 1292374989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually the end results are fishy in general but that might just be my eyes.
< 1292375015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: praise plz
< 1292375094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=129236621626462&w=2
< 1292375104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Alleged FBI backdoors in widely-copies OpenBSD IPSEC code.
< 1292375192 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292375548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Do you have the power to summon oerjan?
< 1292375772 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ilari: http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=129236621626462&w=2 <-- ouch
< 1292375795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The FBI-backdoors-OpenBSD story is like the NSA assassinations stories: Believable except for the minor detail that it's the wrong TLA." --cperciva
< 1292375833 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, TLA?
< 1292375836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :three letter acronym
< 1292375844 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed
< 1292375844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one would expect it to be the NSA wanting such backdoors, not the FBI
< 1292375847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: can i have servers+funding please
< 1292375854 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for?
< 1292375863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: project!
< 1292375867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also /me is trolling #openbsd now >_>
< 1292375871 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what project
< 1292375877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay, opaquely enough that it doesn't actually count as trolling)
< 1292375878 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and trolling is *never* nice
< 1292375883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's joke-trolling
< 1292375901 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, going to sleep as I packed the backpack
< 1292375908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the project project! parade!
< 1292375910 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9.21M addresses allocated from APNIC this calender month (based on delegated file dated 2010-12-14)... At this rate, IANA pool will deplete in a month (mid-January).
< 1292375920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=129236621626462&w=2 :P
< 1292375927 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, answer: no, you are being annoying vague too
< 1292375933 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoyingly*
< 1292375937 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Freow.
< 1292375938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: do you really /want/ me to be specific
< 1292375940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=129236621626462&w=2
< 1292375945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amusing if nothing else
< 1292375950 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sure
< 1292375957 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is it for kitten?
< 1292375966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nope, it's an entirely separate project
< 1292375968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but an excellent one!
< 1292375972 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what project
< 1292375979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i want to obsolete VPSes. well, mostly. >:)
< 1292375986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i even know how to market it!
< 1292375988 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, details
< 1292376016 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Aaaah, the joys of the spy agencies spying on each other.
< 1292376066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: basically, you pay me $N/mo. where by me I mean $company. put "float" in front of a command, and it executes on $server, where you don't care what $server is. you can manage this process in various ways from the command-line -- putting it in the "background", monitoring it, killing it, sending stuff to its stdin, etc. -- and also view its output, log files (you have to tell it what those are, though -- pretty much looking through the / it
< 1292376066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s in), etc.
< 1292376093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: this process is seamlessly migrated to other servers as the server load demands, and given a Xen-or-whatever allocation according to how much you're paying us, and how much you're already using, globally
< 1292376109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you can start processes in more involved ways to make them integrate better with the system, by specifying more about how they act
< 1292376128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the migration doesn't lose internet connections and the like, because sockets and the like go through "fd proxy" machines
< 1292376133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(tl;dr custom patched libc)
< 1292376143 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sooo. some application level virtualisation along google apps lines?
< 1292376148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not really, it'd be actual linux
< 1292376151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xen-based or whatever
< 1292376158 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but per process?
< 1292376168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: pretty much. obviously you can spawn multiple processes at a time, but yes, per "task"
< 1292376183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the basic use-case is... you've made an IRC bot, and you've been running it locally, but now you want it up permanently
< 1292376185 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and how do you count fork()
< 1292376186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put "float" in front of the command
< 1292376188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forget about it
< 1292376189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tada
< 1292376191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "count"?
< 1292376194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes in the same namespace
< 1292376199 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, same or different task
< 1292376199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the original process
< 1292376202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same. duh
< 1292376208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"task" is up to you
< 1292376208 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay, fork() + execv() ?
< 1292376211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1292376211 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292376212 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1292376214 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1292376215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ARE SUCH A FUCKING NITPICKER >_<
< 1292376218 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense
< 1292376229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anyway, it'd also scale to things above IRC bots
< 1292376242 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, such as minecraft?
< 1292376247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure :D
< 1292376255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, the float command would try to automatically figure out what paths and files you've mentioned, and upload them (you are, of course, able to do this manually if the magic isn't working out)
< 1292376261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so e.g. "mybot myconffile mydatadir/"
< 1292376270 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you think you could implement it actually
< 1292376274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also access the filesystem from afar
< 1292376277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., you start a web server
< 1292376280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and want to upload stuff there
< 1292376283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you scp/sftp in
< 1292376289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sure, it's all technically feasible
< 1292376307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: migrating processes w/ the patched libc for keeping FDs it'd require would be the hardest part, really
< 1292376308 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and the file system, this is shared in the "cluster"?
< 1292376310 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292376316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, it's Xen-esque
< 1292376323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every process gets its own root filesystem
< 1292376330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course you could share them, by setting it up manually, I suppose)
< 1292376344 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so how do you properly migrate that. The fd-proxy would work fine for, say, sockets
< 1292376352 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but not so great if you try to mmap() files
< 1292376369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well it'd pretty much re-mmap() them on the other side
< 1292376385 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can you ensure proper mmap() semantics between threads and forks?
< 1292376387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it'll either have to be non-Linux-based at the migration level, or use some kind of kernel patch to be able to freeze and restore processes, I'll have to see about it
< 1292376395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's likely that you'll have to specifically enable migrating to another server
< 1292376395 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm thinking "database server" here
< 1292376401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: let's see if i can!
< 1292376407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, fine, your DB server isn't migratable
< 1292376416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get shitty performance if the server gets bogged down, but what can you do? you suffer that with VPSes anyway
< 1292376421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the performance of my solution is always >=VPS
< 1292376427 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there is linux kernel support for freezing processes
< 1292376429 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1292376431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, this is all based on the observation that VPSes generally run a bunch of services, but they rarely *interact* directly with each other
< 1292376438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's much easier to be able to manage them separately
< 1292376456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the cost of entry is way too high; setting up an IRC bot involves scp, shelling in, probably setting up a screen instance if it has a useful stdio interface
< 1292376456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc.
< 1292376462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to just saying "here, run this somewhere on the interwebs"
< 1292376470 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you need to ensure proper handling of shared memory between a db server and something using it
< 1292376472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marketing strategy: can't you guess?! Cloud! Run your programs from the cloud!
< 1292376475 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is annoying
< 1292376476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Total cloud virtualised environment cloud!
< 1292376491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, SQL servers are often used over sockets :-P
< 1292376495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually, even
< 1292376511 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes true, but they are over shm if local often
< 1292376529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah, true ... I mean there'd be no limit to how "big" a task can be really
< 1292376536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's the sum of your resource usage that's considered
< 1292376540 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rigjt
< 1292376542 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right*
< 1292376557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd certainly be a technically interesting project to work on
< 1292376567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only problem is that it needs a bunch of dedicated servers to get started :)
< 1292376623 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, resources I don't have
< 1292376633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: buy them!
< 1292376658 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, but the resource I lack here is money
< 1292376671 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1292376673 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do like xkcd suggested and report it to the idea agency or whatever it was when someone else implement this. ;P
< 1292376677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's okay, you can have 50% of the profits!!!!!!!!
< 1292376681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm an IDEA MAN
< 1292376693 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Halliburton is offering to pay Nigeria $250 million to drop *bribery* charges against Cheney.
< 1292376709 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are bribing someone to get away with bribery.
< 1292376720 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, Halliburton?
< 1292376730 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also, are they doing that in the open?
< 1292376738 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a bribe then technically
< 1292376758 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They do oil.
< 1292376764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also, no, not in the open.
< 1292376800 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've also been a major military construction contractor.
< 1292376820 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dick Cheney was their CEO.
< 1292376826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like cheney the dick LOL
< 1292376891 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I praise you, O great elliott.
< 1292376937 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He most certainly is a dick.
< 1292376939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: thank you. so why did you want that program
< 1292376974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include
< 1292376974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include
< 1292376975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(){printf("3.");for(long double n=1,r,l=0;n<1000000;n++){printf("%x",(int)floorl(16*(l=(modfl((16*l)+(((120*n-89)*n+16)/((((512*n-1024)*n+712)*n-206)*n+21)),&r)))));}puts("");}
< 1292376979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't flush output after every digit, but is smaller
< 1292376983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(220 chars)
< 1292376987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone feel like golfing it? pikhq? :P
< 1292376999 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night →
< 1292377164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Meh.
< 1292377189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but it's 1 million hex digits of pi!
< 1292377198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, there might be an overflow in there :)
< 1292377225 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: like I said, no good reason.
< 1292377270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: C'mon, I need to feel good about having written it :P
< 1292377274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it was utterly pointless.
< 1292377431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm*...
< 1292377449 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gawker stored passwords. But only the first 8 characters.
< 1292377454 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They actually truncated passwords.
< 1292377456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That's because of DES.
< 1292377497 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ...
< 1292377508 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, did they use *1 block* of DES?
< 1292377534 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO MUCH FAIL.
< 1292377549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Abcdefgh, Joy of Man's DESiring.
< 1292377556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(worst pun ever)
< 1292377957 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think it's amazing how you're able to write working C code at your age.
< 1292377996 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You clearly understand computing better than the vast majority of people in the world.
< 1292378050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Yes. Also, I am god.
< 1292378057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Furthermore, I invented sandwiches.
< 1292378095 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: which kind?
< 1292378110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: ALL KINDS
< 1292378198 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a language construct, which theoretically can do everything in existence. does anyone care?
< 1292378221 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe
< 1292378253 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: there are lots of those drifting around.  :)  But sure, what is it?
< 1292378285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I'd imagine many of us could write working C code at elliott's age.
< 1292378285 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick description: "fixed-point ambiguous lazy definition"
< 1292378302 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, then, we're people sitting in a channel *all about* programming. Sooo. :)
< 1292378305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I have a language construct, which theoretically can do everything in existence. does anyone care?
< 1292378307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do too.
< 1292378309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called lambda.
< 1292378318 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this is more powerful.
< 1292378326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: ...no, no it's not.
< 1292378330 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can do types
< 1292378332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's uncomputable.
< 1292378334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case sure.
< 1292378343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no, your construct is not more powerful than lambda. by definition.
< 1292378357 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may be easier to use than lambda.
< 1292378369 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Lambda is Turing-complete. Therefore your construct is not more powerful than lambda. QVOD ERAT DEMONSTRANDVM
< 1292378377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qvod.
< 1292378385 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if it's computable, lambda calculus can compute it.
< 1292378389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: That's very subjective and arguable, still.
< 1292378393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find lambda pretty easy. :p
< 1292378394 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: theoretically, its value is undecidable in some cases.
< 1292378405 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/its/my construct's/
< 1292378414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: lambda too :P
< 1292378426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\x. _|_) \equiv _|_
< 1292378467 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll ignore you and give examples
< 1292378469 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: okay, then maybe it is more powerful than lambda.
< 1292378479 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignoring elliott is often a good plan.  :P
< 1292378483 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = 2 -- simple definition
< 1292378491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I'm right, though.
< 1292378494 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = 1; b = a -- simple assignment
< 1292378501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: const _|_ = _|_
< 1292378519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: ok so that's two constructs (definition and assignment) already
< 1292378550 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, just examples. the type is [(LHS,RHS)]
< 1292378562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very well.
< 1292378566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :show something more interesting? :-P
< 1292378619 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = 1 : a -- infinite data structure
< 1292378648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so right now it's haskell :P
< 1292378657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is : not part of the control structure?
< 1292378666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. is that "a = f x a" for arbitrary function f and value x?
< 1292378687 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, (:) is just an operator
< 1292378704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: is it part of the construct?
< 1292378705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not?
< 1292378708 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = 0 + a -- a is all numbers
< 1292378731 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(all elements of rings, to be precise)
< 1292378738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: erm, "a = 0 + a" -- a is 0
< 1292378742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you mean 1 + a?
< 1292378748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are : and + part of the construct?
< 1292378763 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, they're just operators.
< 1292378770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very well.
< 1292378775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more examples? show some actual computation
< 1292378777 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the construct finds the fixed points
< 1292378790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: btw, this thing is not more powerful than lambda because it /depends/ on lambda or something equally powerful
< 1292378793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, it depends on functions
< 1292378886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: am i being too nitpicky :)
< 1292378898 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it does simultaneous equation solving too: a = b^2 + 1; b = a - 1 -- a is {-2,-1}, b is {-3,-2}
< 1292378924 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe I have that wrong
< 1292378926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ... do you have any actual implementation strategy for this? :)
< 1292378941 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no. but I have lots of special cases.
< 1292378952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: so it's not really a construct so much as a heap of special cases :)
< 1292379005 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, I can describe it simply: fixed-points of the given equations
< 1292379021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: ok, but it's not really much of a construct if it doesn't have an implementation that isn't a heap of special cases
< 1292379049 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right... it's too powerful to have one implementation that works all the time
< 1292379070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we have different definitions of power
< 1292379081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey, it'll fit right in to mathematica :P
< 1292379114 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the main point: integrate math and programming so well you don't notice the difference
< 1292379155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: have you ever used mathematica?
< 1292379158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll love it.
< 1292379163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well at least until you realise how hateful it is.
< 1292379180 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = 1 + a -- various types of infinity (-infinity and infinity for reals, set {0,1,2,3} for Z_4, etc.)
< 1292379192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-infinity and infinity aren't reals
< 1292379211 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, reals extended to limits
< 1292379232 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292379270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deewiant floating http://imgur.com/5fLbZ.png
< 1292379286 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION used mathematica until he met Stephan Wolfram

< 1292379293 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+1
< 1292379305 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not met him
< 1292379308 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he seems errrrgh
< 1292379356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's funny :)
< 1292379388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"my brilliant mind was correct! it's universal! i'm a genius! a genius! i tell you! p.s. thanks to ais523 who helped fellate my ego by proving it but who cares about that"
< 1292379485 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: I'd like to see a formal definition of this construct.
< 1292379514 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of constructs, I've been pondering languages that are based as much as possible on a single thing.
< 1292379532 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a language where the only thing there is is the associative array, or the semaphore.
< 1292379542 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the continuation.
< 1292379573 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: {variable assignments s.t. all equalities are satisfies}
< 1292379589 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/s}/d}/
< 1292379611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: ok, so it's... an equation!
< 1292379633 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right, I guess the key is in which types of values you have
< 1292379648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1292379685 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the variables can be assigned *sets* of values
< 1292379704 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. a = {1,2,3,4,...} is a legitimate result
< 1292379704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: ok... so it's an equation. some equations have multiple solutions.
< 1292379714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's... a rather old mathematical result, one would think
< 1292379718 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but it has more solutions
< 1292379724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: more solutions than what
< 1292379730 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: so it's a function that takes a set of equations, and returns the set of all values that satisfy the equations?
< 1292379793 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: than normal equation solving. e.g. a = !a has solution {True,False}
< 1292379797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c = root(n, a^n + b^n), n = 3+x
< 1292379802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck yeah!
< 1292379814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: but True = !True isn't true at all
< 1292379817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and False = !False isn't true, either
< 1292379820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's a meaningless result
< 1292379829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think you can define results like that even *slightly* in the general case
< 1292379847 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but !{True,False}={!True,!False} = {False,True} = {True,False}
< 1292379864 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why it's weirdly powerful
< 1292379883 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it will *always* assign values
< 1292379886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: ok, but you can define that with normal equations too, more or less.
< 1292379898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, solving "a = !a" over sets of booleans
< 1292379900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you get that result
< 1292379912 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: if so, then what constants and operators are allowed in the equations, and what values are considered to be possible solutions?
< 1292379917 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right... that was what I was saying
< 1292379959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: so it's an equation. :P
< 1292379968 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: it's defined on general functions, so you can really extend it to any domain
< 1292379984 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but it always has solutions, which is not a property of most things
< 1292379993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: c = root(n, a^n + b^n), n = 3+x
< 1292379995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: what's the solution?
< 1292380015 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: an equation set dependent on x
< 1292380018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the function that takes a set of equations and returns a set of bindings that satisfy those equations is... mathematics in a function
< 1292380024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematica already has your heap of special cases
< 1292380026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called Solve
< 1292380040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: erm you /do/ realise it has no solutions, right?
< 1292380043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fermat
< 1292380051 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: well, if you say "all functions are allowed", then it simply inherits the power of all the functions that you can stick into it.
< 1292380065 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292380074 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: right... so it's definitely at least as powerful as lambda
< 1292380089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: that's misleading.
< 1292380095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't "at least as powerful as"; it's all-powerful.
< 1292380099 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no solutions over integers, maybe. but I can construct lots of others
< 1292380100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can solve any theorem.
< 1292380109 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: probably :p
< 1292380120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: c = root(n, a^n + b^n), n = 3+x, a = floor(a), b = floor(b), n = floor(b)
< 1292380125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Go on, gimme a solution.
< 1292380143 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: what you have is a bit like HQ9+B.  It's a Turing-complete programming language with five instructions: H, Q, 9, +, and B.
< 1292380144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it isn't "at least as powerful as" for another reason: it doesn't replace lambda, it depends on it -- it depends on functions to work.
< 1292380148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it isn't really a control structure at all.
< 1292380155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: What does B stand for? :-P
< 1292380162 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: but the instruction B simply executes the remainder of the program as Brainfuck, and that's where all the power lies.
< 1292380173 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: everything set to infinity
< 1292380180 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p
< 1292380205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: c = root(n, a^n + b^n), n = 3+x, a = floor(a), b = floor(b), n = floor(b), a+1 != a, b+1 != b, n+1 != b
< 1292380212 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: your construct allows arbitrary things from set theory to be included.  But set theory is already Turing-complete and more.
< 1292380216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably you allow !=, since it's all-powerful /anyway/ you might as well make it even more fun.
< 1292380244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: What /is/ the computational class of a machine that can work out every solution to a given equation, or tell you if there are none, anyway?
< 1292380245 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: you could just say "x = the result of running the following Brainfuck program: ..."
< 1292380253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from "the highest computational class even theoretically possible".
< 1292380266 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: essentially, this takes questions in set theory and answers them.
< 1292380278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Yes, yes, I'm just asking a side-question.
< 1292380281 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which... is a pretty high computational class.  :P
< 1292380284 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know anything about weather systems?
< 1292380285 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Is the computational class of a machine that can do that even /named/?
< 1292380287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty insane :P
< 1292380296 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.  I wonder how well-defined it is.
< 1292380304 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: don't forget: it gives multiple answers too
< 1292380324 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's *ambiguous*, so it's always well-defined
< 1292380333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I think it's well-defined but *almost certainly* not physically possible :P
< 1292380359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I mean, you can verify any theorem in O(1) time (well, if the machine can do it in O(1)).
< 1292380366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More importantly: You can verify any theorem haltingly.
< 1292380371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any theorem! Any!
< 1292380378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, any expressable in ZFC or whatever.
< 1292380381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is an awful lot.
< 1292380475 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right, it can "do" the halting problem, by giving {true,false} as well as true and false
< 1292380489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: that...
< 1292380494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: no, you can't do that.
< 1292380501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't make sense even in the framework of your definition
< 1292380536 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know anything about weather systems that you can make some weather in a computer game and that the captain can sometimes predict the weather from it?
< 1292380626 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, I'm missing the inconsistency
< 1292380671 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: can it always return {true,false}, or only sometimes?
< 1292380673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: {True,False} = Halts(P,P)
< 1292380678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no real sense, at all
< 1292380882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1292380915 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know anything about weather in here at all?
< 1292381231 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know which channel and on which network can help?
< 1292381439 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: only when the input depends on the output. it returns the *least* fixed point.
< 1292381451 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not the empty set
< 1292381570 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I detect a distinct silence due to lack of elliott
< 1292383447 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"       !!!"
< 1292385165 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292385336 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1292386080 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292387758 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :🍱 have a Unicode BENTO BOX
< 1292387988 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I do not have that font
< 1292387997 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No one does :P
< 1292388009 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Unicode 6, only been out for a month and a half.
< 1292388044 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I believe you.
< 1292388053 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yûnikotò hènntô? sukề!
< 1292388054 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what
< 1292388060 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually a bento box?
< 1292388061 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :myndzi
< 1292388072 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are you just joking, because it's a box (no character)
< 1292388083 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: 🏩 maybe you would like to enjoy the delicious 🍱 Unicode BENTO BOX in a Unicode LOVE HOTEL
< 1292388090 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol.
< 1292388118 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... They *actually put* LOVE HOTEL in‽
< 1292388154 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 👅 I am sticking my Unicode TONGUE out at your lack of faith in Unicode!
< 1292388157 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, he must certainly be joking
< 1292388172 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless maybe we are talking about kanji, but that was not the impression i got
< 1292388210 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are many things I do not like about unicode. One is that you need a lot of unicode tables to parse properly which are wide and text direction and various other properties.
< 1292388211 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/block/miscellaneous_symbols_and_pictographs/list.htm
< 1292388218 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently love hotel is only hiragana
< 1292388230 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Uh, katakana.
< 1292388239 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what
< 1292388243 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there really is?!
< 1292388245 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D:
< 1292388249 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely "rabu hoteru" should be katakana.
< 1292388268 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i don't know
< 1292388273 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: There really, truly is :P
< 1292388276 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I believe it probably should be too. Is that a term in Japanese that means something?
< 1292388280 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know if it should be katakana or not
< 1292388292 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since i've only heard the term in anime i thought it was native
< 1292388306 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I found out what it means on Wikipedia
< 1292388308 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it is obvious that this is katakana, but i didn't bother to consider it
< 1292388318 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It's a hotel that exists for the sake of people having sex.
< 1292388331 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?????
< 1292388334 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a Japanese word though. It is based on two English words.
< 1292388338 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why so display only mirc
< 1292388339 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ラブホテル
< 1292388346 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess so, but whatever
< 1292388355 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some Japanese words are a compound word based on an English word together with a Japanese word.
< 1292388373 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, wasei eigo (Japanese-made English) is not that rare.
< 1292388383 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bridge at night
< 1292388384 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf
< 1292388396 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it sometimes gets put back into English!
< 1292388399 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f4a9/index.htm UNICODE - PILE - OF - POO
< 1292388401 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(e.g. karaoke, anime)
< 1292388411 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, that doesn't even make a good symbol because it's inverted
< 1292388418 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHA
< 1292388428 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and Pokémon.
< 1292388433 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes it does come back into English too sometimes!
< 1292388437 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o rly
< 1292388443 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what english word is pokemon based on
< 1292388447 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, karaoke, anime, and pokemon are all words that partially or fully in English
< 1292388451 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: Pocket Monsters
< 1292388467 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pocket monsters" → "poketto monsutāzu" → "pokemon"
< 1292388488 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't think there is a "zu" in it.
< 1292388514 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Ah, sure enough, they never put that syllable in.
< 1292388519 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then the words like karaoke,anime,pokemon are in Japanese, and then are used also in English.
< 1292388554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Karaoke, BTW, is from "kara" (empty) and "orchestra".
< 1292388560 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ON WITH EXCLAMATION MARK WITH LEFT RIGHT ARROW ABOVE" huh?
< 1292388569 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That is because that syllable does not belong. It is not based on a English thing called "pocket monsters", it is based on the English words "pocket" and "monsters", therefore the "zu" does not belong.
< 1292388571 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "anime" is fairly obviously a shortening of "animation".
< 1292388583 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, I know where the words "karaoke" and "anime" are from.
< 1292388585 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Sure it does. "Monsters" is not pronounced "Monster".
< 1292388591 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right
< 1292388598 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode SILHOUETTE OF JAPAN
< 1292388599 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yeah, but who else does here?
< 1292388600 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... yes.
< 1292388603 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No it doesn't. They don't use plural in Japanese.
< 1292388610 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: English does.
< 1292388622 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is there a bunch of japanese stuff in there, why isn't there a silhouette of micronesia?
< 1292388633 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: And they *usually* follow English pluralisation patterns for English words.
< 1292388645 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: They encoded emoji.
< 1292388673 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	WHITE LEFT POINTING BACKHAND INDEX
< 1292388675 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT NO BLACK HAND
< 1292388677 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it was coming from a English phrase called "pocket monsters", then it would have the "zu" in the end. But it is not based on a phrase, it is based on the two words individually.
< 1292388678 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RACIST ASSHOLES
< 1292388706 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I can confirm that it was marketed as "Pocket Monsters" in Japan.
< 1292388708 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How can you know? Are you Japanese??
< 1292388724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No, but I've played the game in Japanese!
< 1292388777 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes it was marketed as "Pocket Monsters" but that is because they turned it into Japanese and then into English words. Such combined abbreviated words like "pokemon" and "daburii" is common in Japanese.
< 1292388794 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: Anyways. These are all from the emoticon/pictograph set on various Japanese cell carriers.
< 1292388815 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: The Japanocentric nature of that should be clear. :)
< 1292388852 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have played some Japanese games too, I am not Japanese either. I also read Japanese manga book, too.
< 1292388868 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hates fonts

< 1292388876 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I buy unicodelovehotelforyou.com or unicodelovehotelforus.com?
< 1292388876 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :日本語で?
< 1292388896 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It depends.
< 1292388910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Clearly we should all just read bits.
< 1292388928 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, we read pixel pattern
< 1292388930 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*s
< 1292388936 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thereby solving a wide variety of i18n issues.
< 1292388940 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Now* can you understand why there is no "zu" in "poketto monsutaa"? It is clear to me. Why don't you understand?
< 1292388969 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: we read code, not language
< 1292388972 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Because it's a transcription of an English phrase.
< 1292388985 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: everyone knows C++, right?
< 1292388999 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No it isn't. It is a transcription of two English words. It was then later translated into an English phrase.
< 1292389011 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That said, Japanese transcription of English phrases can be completely and utterly *bizarre* sometimes, so whatever.
< 1292389036 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on, anybody? Real opinions? Should I buy unicodelovehotelforyou.com or unicodelovehotelforus.com?
< 1292389039 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moræ make things weird.
< 1292389058 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: I know C, I don't know much of C++.
< 1292389066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Nobody knows C++.
< 1292389086 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ok, but surely everyone knows English...
< 1292389090 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, some people program in C++, I think Microsoft does.
< 1292389110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: They program a small subset of C++.
< 1292389121 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Not everyone knows English either, and some concepts are difficult to mean in English.
< 1292389125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knowledge of the whole will ruin your mind forever.
< 1292389135 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why mathematics is used, is one thing.
< 1292389152 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ok, everyone knows mathematics...
< 1292389188 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, no.
< 1292389196 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Not everyone knows mathematics either, but it is commonly known by mathematicians and so on in anywhere, and can specify things less ambiguous. Of course, it only specifies mathematical things!
< 1292389259 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell me, what you can understand from the following English phrase:  charities for poor people and monsters with names starting with "A"
< 1292389268 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it ambiguous?
< 1292389388 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes... ambiguous languages are the best kind
< 1292389421 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematics is ambiguous, out of context
< 1292389482 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Yes, out of context you cannot know what is the purpose of a mathematical formula, but that is because there is no information, not because there is multiple ways to interpret it.
< 1292389491 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Even if there is multiple ways to interpret it)
< 1292389579 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing with English; you can find out
< 1292389674 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you can find out. Sometimes.
< 1292389726 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :similarly in math; and if you don't understand, you ask
< 1292389943 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1292389996 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1292391045 0 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292393355 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Help! I cannot eat my own brain!
< 1292395050 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1292398414 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-239-57.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292399999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1292400000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292400398 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292400544 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :ETARTNI'HC IOV AZNAREPS ENGO ETAICSAL | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1292401214 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292401434 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292401676 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f499/index.htm Unicode is not for color blinds either. (also see U+1F49A..1F49C)
< 1292401997 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also green book/blue book/orange book (1f47[d-f]).
< 1292402009 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, 1f4d[7-9] instead.
< 1292402022 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I apparently have early-onset dysxelia.
< 1292402126 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole block is so random. Silhouette of Japan? Orange/blue diamonds, but red/blue circles and red triangles?
< 1292402224 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because the entire pictograms added in Unicode 6.0 are originated from Emojis, which are inherently random
< 1292402855 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!
< 1292405035 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: To koan or not to koan. This is the koan (not the previous sentence).
< 1292405500 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1292406908 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: *disappears in a puff of orange smoke*
< 1292407729 0 :Guest48752!~butt@ANantes-259-1-130-244.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292411397 0 :Guest48752!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Slereah
< 1292412557 0 :MigoMipo!~John@62.119.155.253 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292413317 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292413332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: figured out how to merge fonts yet? :P
< 1292413525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, FontForge truly does have a uniquely bad interface.
< 1292413675 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't even try. It is pretty special.
< 1292413778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Okay, I've merged the two fonts ... ... HOW THE HELL DO YOU RENAME A FONT?!?!?!
< 1292413789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Thankfully merging was a direct menu item.)
< 1292413801 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you just start a new font and copy all the characters there.
< 1292413809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Like every other operation in the known universe other than useful ones.)
< 1292413819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: No, you open the base font and merge it with the font-you-like.
< 1292413823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now how do you rename a font. :p
< 1292413828 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean, for renaming.
< 1292413832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1292413841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to hope that's not the case and keep trying :P
< 1292413851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha.
< 1292413852 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably not a good idea, no.
< 1292413889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Droid-DejaVu Sans Mono"; I am the creative.
< 1292413930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Validating... Your font contains ERRORS! NYAH!
< 1292413989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HA.
< 1292413994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It appears to be very DejaVu.
< 1292414053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What GUI toolkit *is* this?
< 1292414098 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aptitude show fontforge → Tags: implemented-in::c, interface::x11, role::program, scope::application, uitoolkit::xlib, use::editing, works-with::font, x11::application
< 1292414130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So, wait... if it uses Xlib directly, somebody actually *programmed* the buttons to have such frickin' gigantic borders?
< 1292414148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this person still walk the streets of polite society?
< 1292414162 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.. think so. The dependencies don't seem to have anything relevant, at least.
< 1292414329 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292414360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: If we act calmly and rationally, we can save humanity before it is too late.
< 1292414420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joy, the merged-the-other-way one still uses the DejaVu glyphs. I think it literally duplicates glyphs rather than selecting one, or something.
< 1292414657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "
< 1292414657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The third approach was in fact the one I tried first, using Merge Fonts.
< 1292414657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I removed all the non-Khmer characters from KhmerOS Freehand except space, zero-width space, zero-width joiner and zero-width non-joiner (U+200B, 200C, 200D). Then I attempted the merge. The system crashed both times I tried it."
< 1292414666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh man, it's stable too!!!!
< 1292414714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It... has search and replace.
< 1292414716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On splines.
< 1292414717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What.
< 1292414723 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh.
< 1292414764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how it has a scrollbar.
< 1292414777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, oh yeah, have fun scrolling through Unicode, pal!
< 1292414798 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think FontForge was involved when I truetypified the rfk86 font for web-use, but somehow my mind has completely blanked off any details.
< 1292414896 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292414907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think mine is valiantly attempting to do so now.
< 1292414924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you get a searing migraine too?
< 1292414937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOOOOO IT WORKS
< 1292414944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what have I been doing for the past fifteen minutes?
< 1292414947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember anything.
< 1292414988 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly. I wrote a Perl script to generate a SVG font, and then somehow it has turned into .ttf, but I don't know how.
< 1292414993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is done in the manner proposed by W.W. Sawyer in his
< 1292414993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vision in Elementary Mathematics (Penguin Books, 1964). In
< 1292414993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :particular, his method avoids clothing the simple ideas of
< 1292414993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :addition and multiplication in the much more complex ideas
< 1292414993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inherent in the decimal system.
< 1292414994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--J
< 1292415003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Probably pixies.
< 1292415129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, I have a proper J environment with a nice font and looking-enough-like-GTK-that-you-can't-tell-it's-Java-until-you-try-and-use-it.
< 1292415266 0 :yiyus_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292415593 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1292415977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, I wish ais523 knew how confusing his patch format is.
< 1292416027 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292416655 0 :yiyus_!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292417841 0 :MigoMipo!~John@62.119.155.253 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292417849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So when do we get X-Ray-O-Vision. :p
< 1292417854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Clearly bugging you will help!)
< 1292417894 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll put it somewhere as a communal christmas present.
< 1292417910 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except that I'm pretty sure the beta update will break it on the 20th.)
< 1292418060 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The protocol doesn't have any sort of overall format, so it needs to know all the packet IDs that go through the pipe in order to be able to determine the packet length, to know where the next packet will start.)
< 1292418153 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't sound like good protocol design...
< 1292418171 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but I wasn't expecting it to be.
< 1292418220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can I bribe you for early access? :p
< 1292418500 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1292418560 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I'm very bribable. But maybe I'll get a... uh, what's two steps before an alpha version? ... out tomorrow or so; I just need to add markers for other players, keys to look at other z-levels than the player's own in cross-section mode, surface/cross-section mode toggling with something else than a recompile, and handling of those "user removed/placed a block" packets since currently it doesn't actually update the map when you dig.
< 1292418575 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except if you place a torch, because the changing light-values will make the server send out a chunk update.)
< 1292418671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Aw, but /I/ was looking forward to the low-hanging-fruit-with-large-gratification task of adding keys to look at other z-levels. :p
< 1292419644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly what fizzie really needs to release his code early is a version control system to store it in. I wonder if he would like my 36-line file of scapegoat patch theory!
< 1292419649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO TEMPTING
< 1292419805 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1292420310 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1292420345 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1292420472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 j
< 1292420477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!y = */>:i.y
< 1292420494 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292420494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :factorial y = multiply over increment integers y
< 1292420655 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f = @(y) prod(1:y)
< 1292420690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Pssht.
< 1292420723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Product of the sums of M lists of N random integers from 0 to X.
< 1292420726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go go go.
< 1292420743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (You can just put "M", "N" and "X" there, rather than making them actual parameters.)
< 1292420759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and that's 0 <= random < X.
< 1292420785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: My entry: */+/?M N$X
< 1292420788 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prod(sum(randi(X, N, M)))
< 1292420797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: WHOOPS LOOK AT THAT YOURS IS LONGER
< 1292420801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And more nested too!
< 1292420803 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How surprising.
< 1292420859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Random positive 32-bit integer calculated by setting every bit to 0 or 1 with probability 1/2.
< 1292420880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#.?32$2
< 1292420926 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just random integer in the [0, 2^32-1] range.
< 1292420936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, it is, but it's the implementation details that matter.
< 1292420954 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's going to be long and ugly if you want it like that, but just a moment.
< 1292420970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You don't think I'm /aiming/ for long, ugly and unreadable code on your part? :-P
< 1292421015 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sum((randi(2, 1, 32)-1) .* 2.^(0:31))
< 1292421033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Wow, that is truly awful.
< 1292421053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUESS J IS THE PERFECT LANGUAGE HUH
< 1292421068 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a 1x32 matrix of random bits, element-wise multiplied by [2^0 2^1 .. 2^31] and then sum'd.
< 1292421083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'd challenge you to implement a finite state machine... but, uh: [[  	
< 1292421083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x;:y implements a sequential machine (finite state machine, finite state automaton). x is the specification of a machine, including the state transition table, and y is the input. A sequential machine solves the problem of recognizing the “words” in the input. The machine starts in some initial state and processes the input one item at a time; given the current state and input item, the new state and output are determined by the state transit
< 1292421084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion table. The machine then proceeds to process the next input item.]]
< 1292421088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I would win that one. :p
< 1292421164 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure there's a FSM toolbox, but, well, it's going to be longer than that; just the function-call parens take two chars.
< 1292421193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: To be fair, x /is/ a rather ugly boxed thing: "y is any array and x=.f;s;m;ijrd is a boxed list from which ijrd or both m and ijrd may be elided."
< 1292421200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it would be shorter anyway. :p
< 1292421210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Now: A fully-functional Minecraft server!
< 1292421216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calling out to C is permitted as long as you provide the C source.
< 1292421444 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MATLAB's forte is the existing stuff. Let's see your J implementation of training a feed-forward neural network with Levenberg-Marquardt backpropagation; in MATLAB it's train(net,data).
< 1292421602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: M-CPM-=M-tlM-
< 1292421606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Two characters shorter, I believe.
< 1292421670 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure if I should trust you there.
< 1292421705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: M-CPM is the module name (they're named sequentially, alphabetically; not much logic to that, immediately).
< 1292421713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: I'm full of shit; it's cat -v /dev/urandom output.
< 1292421743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But admit it... for a second you felt the pangs of using an inferior language.
< 1292421893 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@62.119.155.253 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292421898 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, though in an incident completely unrelated to this one. (I was trying to pick a random sample from a nonparametric discrete distribution which I had the PDF -- well, non-normalized, but anyway -- for, and the only single-line MATLAB solution I could figure out was pretty crappy.)
< 1292421945 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[~, t] = histc(rand(), [0 cumsum(d)]/sum(d));    -- to do "t = 1 .. length(d) randomly, with the probability of getting i proportional to d(i)".
< 1292421971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's probably really short in J, but I'm too lazy and inexperienced to work it out.
< 1292422006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION watches Deewiant's loop-booster make a round.

< 1292422010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, it looks so silly when it turns.
< 1292422014 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292422016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Have you got any iron I can borrow in MC?
< 1292422017 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The statistics toolbox has a random() function that takes a PDF, but it doesn't take matrices; it just takes "ProbDist" class objects, and the only ones I could figure out to create were either out of ~30 families of parametric distributions, or a non-parametric kernel-smoothing-fit-to-data thing.
< 1292422044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm not sure why you'd store data in PDFs. ARF ARF ARF
< 1292422047 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only in my safe place, and not too much. How much would you need?
< 1292422057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Enough for about... two Minecart tracks?
< 1292422076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, just as a unit of measurement.
< 1292422092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I can pay it back, next time I go to Mount Hoover.
< 1292422110 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's, what, 12 ingots? I guess I could donate that much, but I'm not sure when I'll have time to visit the World.
< 1292422117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12? Is it? Yow.
< 1292422131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They look so flimsy.
< 1292422143 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's |-| where the ||s are iron and - is a stick or a plank, either-or.
< 1292422147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I have 4 ores on me, but no smelty.
< 1292422157 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is "either-or" in the "can't remember which" sense, not in the "anything goes" sense.
< 1292422178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Heh; increasing the height of the default window size just slightly makes the inventory and chat 1:1 pixels.
< 1292422185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the crafting grid tiny.
< 1292422196 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well (Orwell); that is the recipe, but you do get 16 tracks out of it.
< 1292422211 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just can't get them in smaller increments.
< 1292422224 0 :MigoMipo!~John@62.119.155.253 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292422246 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292422352 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't quite figured out the UI sizing logic. I use the 960x1200 window for playing, and the UI elements are reasonably sized; but if I open a full-screen window, they are annoyingly huge and space-wasting. I guess it scales (or at least tries to) aspect-ratio-preserving.
< 1292422374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can Matlab's interpret-this-list-of-integers-as-digits-in-base-N function accepts arguments LARGER than the base???
< 1292422378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   10 #. 1 2 3
< 1292422378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :123
< 1292422378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   10 #. 1 2 11
< 1292422378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :131
< 1292422387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And equ
< 1292422390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*equal to, for that matter.
< 1292422432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1A34Z_10 = 20365
< 1292422435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_10
< 1292422437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is
< 1292422452 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@62.119.155.253 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292422455 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wellll, yes, in the sense that it doesn't have a "interpret this list of integers as digits in base-N" function, and if you do it the way I did that rand32, it's just a sum-multiply-powers-of-N thing, and there it of course will.
< 1292422503 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> sum([1 2 11] .* 10.^(2:-1:0))
< 1292422503 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ans =
< 1292422503 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   131
< 1292422536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   1.3 #. 1 2 3
< 1292422536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7.29
< 1292422543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Fractional bases, does it do them? Presumably.
< 1292422583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What about complex bases?
< 1292422584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   3j10 #. 1 2 3
< 1292422584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_82j80
< 1292422586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(_ is negative)
< 1292422622 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1292422651 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, What does 3j10 mean? 3+10*i?
< 1292422669 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> sum([1 2 3] .* (3+10*j).^(2:-1:0))
< 1292422669 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ans =
< 1292422669 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -82.0000 +80.0000i
< 1292422671 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess so.
< 1292422684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: 3j10 is 3+10i, yes.
< 1292422686 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There might be a complex-number literal format, too.
< 1292422703 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the * in my expression is superfluous.
< 1292422716 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that J I see there?
< 1292422744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Yup.
< 1292422751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's more J in the logs if you look closely.
< 1292422770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The string 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10, interpreted in base N!, where N is a random number picked by selecting 8 random bit values and interpreting them in base 2.
< 1292422774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And N! is of course N factorial.
< 1292422777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   (!#.?4$2)#.>:i.10
< 1292422777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2036
< 1292422779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your entry?
< 1292422805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is acceptable to say "I don't like you." at this point.)
< 1292422924 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the "random bit values in base 2" thing, since it's completely identical to "random integer in the range" value-wise.
< 1292422933 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can write that down if you like, assuming it fits in my terminal.
< 1292422955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OK, I'll redo the random bit values in base 2 thing.
< 1292422969 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With something more horrible, I guess.
< 1292423048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: N = The base-3 interpretation of 2 random numbers in the range [0,1] (at least I think 1 is included; it might not actually be), both multiplied by ten.
< 1292423051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You still need to do the factorial thing.
< 1292423054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   (!3#.10*?2$0)#.>:i.10
< 1292423054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5.39227e234
< 1292423055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your move.
< 1292423079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (The rest of the challenge still applies.)
< 1292423149 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> sum((1:10) .* prod(1:sum(10*rand(1,2).*[3 1])).^(9:-1:0))
< 1292423149 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ans =
< 1292423149 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  2.3719e+177
< 1292423173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: rand(1,2) includes 1.5, surely?
< 1292423190 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's 1x2 sized matrix of [0, 1) uniform-distributed random numbers.
< 1292423199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1292423206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: The string 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10, interpreted in base N!, where N is a random number picked by selecting 8 random bit values and interpreting them in base 2.
< 1292423214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Does it do /all/ of that?
< 1292423219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except with the new N definition.
< 1292423223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just checking.
< 1292423267 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. prod(1:...) does "N!", taking that .^(9:-1:0) gives the proper products, that's multiplied elementwise by 1:10 (the list [1 2 3 .. 10]) and then the result is sum'd together.
< 1292423304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OK, that's not bad, not bad.
< 1292423312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still not as good as (!3#.10*?2$0)#.>:i.10, of course.
< 1292423328 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did the "base 3 interpretation of two numbers times ten" a bit cheatingly, though, with that manual [3 1] multiplication, but... as I said, there's no real "interpret in base-N" built-in. (Unless there is.)
< 1292423329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That 2$0 is probably clearer as 0 0.
< 1292423351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'd randomise the number of digits but I'm not that cruel and it'd overflow J's integer.
< 1292423390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s.
< 1292423392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Probably.)
< 1292423404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay, so it's not an integer.
< 1292423469 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using a separate function for base-n "decoding" would simplify the MATLAB version a lot.
< 1292423471 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> bn = @(b,d) sum(d .* b.^(length(d)-1:-1:0));
< 1292423471 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> bn(prod(1:bn(3, 10*rand(1,2))), 1:10)
< 1292423471 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ans =
< 1292423471 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  6.5004e+291
< 1292423482 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe "a lot" is a bit too much to say.
< 1292423502 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Btw, elliott, I find http://www.jsoftware.com/help/dictionary/vocabul.htm to be a great reference for J
< 1292423520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Yeah, you can get that by hitting F1 inside J.
< 1292423525 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1292423529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very useful
< 1292423537 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually use the command-line frontend
< 1292423544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Why would you do that :)
< 1292423545 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's a built-in factorial, but it takes more characters; prod(1:N) vs. factorial(N).
< 1292423545 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err
< 1292423551 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The terminal-based one, that is
< 1292423553 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno
< 1292423565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, so the GUI one is Java. It is nice though.)
< 1292423671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmph, making Minecraft texture packs looks like a pain.
< 1292423678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I want to see what 1x1 textures look like.)
< 1292423847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, it looks like it's all in one file.
< 1292424276 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i gotta hand it to matlab on the readability here.  ...not that line noise isn't fun too.
< 1292424446 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gnaa, horrible dumbing-down of text: http://www.shopexplorer.com/news/squarehead-audioscope-zoom-in-on-sound.html -- "Once a subject has been selected, the required microphone picks up the audio by amplifying the source, while the other mics are turned down." That's so not how it works; all sensible beamforming systems use the whole set of microphones and the known-from-geometry delays, not just "hay we have a directional microphone pointing at the source, let'
< 1292424446 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s turn that on".
< 1292424468 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's worse, it's like they've taken the description directly from the company page, except then removed the parts they didn't understand.
< 1292424507 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"AudioScope is based on the same principle as sonar. A dish with an array of microphones can locate and record sound anywhere in a large room. A speaker's voice in an auditorium is picked up by all the microphones on the dish. Depending on the position of each microphone, the sound will reach them at a slightly different time. We use this to our advantage." → "It works in a similar way to sonar; a central dish houses a number of microphones within it that poi
< 1292424508 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nt in slightly different directions and a camera is used to view the source area. Once a subject has been selected, the required microphone picks up the audio by amplifying the source, while the other mics are turned down."
< 1292424552 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'd like to hear that in action, incidentally.)
< 1292424575 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an electronic implementation of auditory attention!
< 1292424595 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it do spectral analysis to narrow in on the interesting part of the spectrum too?
< 1292424657 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't tell that sort of stuff, of course, since it's a commercial product.
< 1292424680 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to see a robot that is capable of the cocktail party effect, capable of integrating visual cues such as a speaker's mouth moving, with the lingual auditory information
< 1292424705 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/lingual/linguistic/
< 1292424752 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's being done in several places, I think.
< 1292424760 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Academically, I mean.
< 1292424771 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not aware of any actual product-development projects.
< 1292424882 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, you don't know who is doing it?
< 1292424973 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not offhand. The auditory/visual combination thing was one of the topics in our "learning from multiple sources" course; I've forgotten the name of the robotics EU project that was doing exactly that that a visiting guy from another university talked about; and I just recall seeing rather many references to the whole multimodality thing, it's sort of a buzzword.
< 1292424994 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we have the sort-of-invented-here ICA, which is typically mentioned in the cocktail party context. (It's a blind source separation thing, not very directly related.)
< 1292425089 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man, this interactive film thing is such a great idea.  imagine a movie that takes place entirely at a party, in one house, and there are cameras everywhere, and you can interpolate between them using standard vision techniques so as to watch from any angle...and you can track any sound source.
< 1292425105 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and EVERY partygoer is involved in some interesting story that unfolds over an hour
< 1292425136 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, you could spend days watching that
< 1292425151 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could spend quite a long making that, too. :p
< 1292425190 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes
< 1292425198 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no longer than it takes to make any movie
< 1292425219 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you'd just have to actually rig a house with camoflauged cameras and sound-zoom things
< 1292425228 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then have the actors rehearse for ages
< 1292425241 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and finally, film the entire thing in one continuous shot
< 1292425248 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a stageplay
< 1292425262 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the robotics folks were also doing gait recognition. Someone had the audacity to ask them about whether it is, you know, actually useful for something.
< 1292425281 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292425298 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a punchline?
< 1292425305 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292425340 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd say it would be useful in strong AI for threat recognition
< 1292425466 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, he sort of avoided the question; there was something about how it works from a longer distance than face recognition.
< 1292425618 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1292425643 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have (a bit silly) demo-video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjyN7qjkKjU but I'm not promising anything mind-blowing there.
< 1292425810 0 :jix!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292426126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[“vim doesn’t support interactive buffers? after 20 years? well, I’m a hacker. I’ll just add support for it.”
< 1292426126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sees quality of vim codebase, runs frantically in opposite direction
< 1292426127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :“who needs a console in their editor anyways!!!! I am all about the unix philosophy, etc”]]
< 1292426202 0 :nopseudoidea!~nopseudoi@85-168-235-235.rev.numericable.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292426387 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. I sort-of wanted a nice VIM/Matlab integration, didn't work out all that well.
< 1292426407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit computer, I'm only using 1.4 GiB out of 3.7 GiB of RAM I have.
< 1292426415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So stop lagging, even if both my cores are being used intensively.
< 1292426418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By... uh... Firefox, I guess.
< 1292426459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's from “vim doesn’t support interactive buffers? after 20 years? well, I’m a hacker. I’ll just add support for it.”
< 1292426460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sees quality of vim codebase, runs frantically in opposite direction
< 1292426460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :“who needs a console in their editor anyways!!!! I am all about the unix philosophy, etc”.
< 1292426460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm.
< 1292426468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's from “vim doesn’t support interactive buffers? after 20 years? well, I’m a hacker. I’ll just add support for it.”
< 1292426468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sees quality of vim codebase, runs frantically in opposite direction
< 1292426468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :“who needs a console in their editor anyways!!!! I am all about the unix philosophy, etc”
< 1292426470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOD DAMMIT FIREFOX
< 1292426472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I PRESSED CTRL+C THAT MEANS COPY
< 1292426480 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THOU SHALT NOT COPY.
< 1292426483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's from http://kevinw.github.com/2010/12/15/this-is-your-brain-on-vim/.
< 1292426487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Used the menus to cut/paste that, how shameful.
< 1292426507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I was really expecting it to end with "and then I switch to Emacs", what with the flurry of non-modal modifier key+foo binding.
< 1292426520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the Y-combinator-browsin'-in-vim, and the vimscript hatred.
< 1292426524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no; he's a wimp!
< 1292426533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Because Vim users are wimps, obviously.)
< 1292426547 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A vimp.
< 1292426595 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tries impressing someone watching over shoulder with a macro, only to mess up and uppercase/rot13 the entire file"
< 1292426818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I personally have rot13 bound to C-x x.
< 1292426822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that useful.
< 1292426876 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm ashamed to admit I usually just paste into a tr a-z n-za-m.
< 1292427091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm not ashamed to admit that I basically never use rot13 :P
< 1292427145 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whenever I see gibberish, I rot13 it just in case.
< 1292427468 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292427777 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.188.14 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292427799 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I was suffering from IRC deprivation
< 1292428058 0 :nopseudoidea!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quitte
< 1292428159 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292428244 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I assumed that topic was elliott being silly as always, but then I saw that zzo set it and I now fear that Cthulhu has awoken.
< 1292428292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHA
< 1292428403 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm caffenatired
< 1292428480 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm terrified of lonliness. Protip: Do not play One Chance. Do not watch walkthroughs of it. Especially if you're me
< 1292428497 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim
< 1292428576 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, assuming you found out about that from qntm?
< 1292428582 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes
< 1292428595 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a shoddy copy of "Every Day the Same Dream", FWIW.
< 1292428617 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the plot's similar, remind me to never play that either
< 1292428631 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naw, the plot is different (and not crap).
< 1292428643 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the gameplay and several scenes are identical.
< 1292428665 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as the final scenes aren't identical
< 1292428669 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've shown vim to my windows based friends and they said "what, this is retro man, like uh, does it have any keyboard shortcuts?"
< 1292428669 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292428670 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shudders

< 1292428704 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1292428729 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they can't code in visual studio 2008 so they download huuuuuuge visual studio 2010
< 1292428729 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, One Chance's plot is... terrible. Particularly, as pointed out by Hughes, it seems to say "forget saving the world FAMILY FAMILY!!!1111!!"
< 1292428777 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, badness of plot doesn't stop me from having nightmares
< 1292428951 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just saw the "good" ending
< 1292428955 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still haunts me
< 1292428966 0 :jix!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292429123 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, have you still not read Fine Structure?
< 1292429132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Not the end yet!
< 1292429133 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, he's read some of it
< 1292429151 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you are lagging behind Sgeo!
< 1292429154 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For shame!
< 1292429177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has Sgeo played eversion
< 1292429180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, I recommend Sgeo plays eversion
< 1292429184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a fun 8-bit game about happy things!
< 1292429203 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could swear I've seen that name before in connection with another game
< 1292429261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's like this: http://zarawesome.googlepages.com/screenie.png
< 1292429376 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be like Erfworld -- looks cute, full of death
< 1292429450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Did you think that when playing Super Mario Brothers? :P
< 1292429466 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, think of the GOOMBA HOLOCAUST.
< 1292429467 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SugarWiki/Eversion?from=Main.EVERSION this seriously reads like a trick
< 1292429475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://zara.verge-rpg.com/eversion173.zip
< 1292429478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're so damn sceptical.
< 1292429522 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/DarthWiki/Eversion uhhh
< 1292429562 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, it's a lie! A troper lie!
< 1292429664 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIES
< 1292429665 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292429773 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/DarthWiki/Eversion
< 1292429775 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1292429979 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292430140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523!
< 1292430147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I implemented the basic patch logic of Scapegoat in Haskell.
< 1292430149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*scapegoat
< 1292430153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://imgur.com/ymmLk.png
< 1292430161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1292430166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, trying to do something at work here
< 1292430176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, i'll shut up then :)
< 1292430176 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm on far + fancy, no way I'll open browser atm
< 1292430180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually at a friend's house (for the Internet connection), but luckily ssh -X works
< 1292430183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: wget|feh
< 1292430188 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, feh?
< 1292430193 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, did you tell some newspaper or other that you know 6 esolangs?
< 1292430207 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: No route to host
< 1292430218 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, 6 is pathetic, especially as you've *invented* at least 3.
< 1292430223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6? that seems unlikely
< 1292430233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: feh is an image viewer
< 1292430239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember making a comment along the lines of "around 20, 30 if you count esolangs" when asked how many languages I knew
< 1292430242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was an estimate
< 1292430257 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POOR JOURNALISM STRIKES AGAIN
< 1292430270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waiting for TreeFrame to appear... 600 seconds left.
< 1292430272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waiting for TreeFrame to appear... 599 seconds left.
< 1292430273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TreeFrame has appeared!
< 1292430277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this application does not fill me with confidence
< 1292430302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292430386 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love estimated completion times.
< 1292430403 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd think the people who write them have no concept of precision.
< 1292430442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, turns out it crashes immediately after you make any change
< 1292430450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm having to restart it every time I change anything
< 1292430454 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TreeFrame has appeared! sounds like something from a MMORPG.
< 1292430470 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Pokemon, surely?
< 1292430526 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TreeFrame has evolved to TreeFrameFactory!
< 1292430547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I suspect it's a timeout, not an estimated completion time
< 1292430673 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hmm.
< 1292430686 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an esolang in this!
< 1292431009 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, cgi scripts can't give arbitrary status codes?
< 1292431012 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTP status codes?
< 1292431041 0 :SaFi2266!~safi@109.205.116.91 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292431118 0 :SaFi2266!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all
< 1292431118 0 :SaFi2266!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally newbie here
< 1292431162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi SaFi2266
< 1292431182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I fear I'm doing something insane; I just set up Evolution over ssh -X so I could send emails from work from home
< 1292431198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I...
< 1292431203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: everyone who invented mail protocls hates you
< 1292431208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SaFi2266: hi, this channel is about esoteric programming languages
< 1292431209 0 :SaFi2266!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh hello
< 1292431210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*protocols
< 1292431218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why?
< 1292431239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because the whole point of IMAP etc. is to be able to use local programs to access any remote server :)
< 1292431243 0 :SaFi2266!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry
< 1292431248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SaFi2266: sorry?
< 1292431268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, indeed
< 1292431274 0 :SaFi2266!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I am discovering the irc I am new
< 1292431276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually using IMAP on the remote server
< 1292431284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and yet you forward evolution over X why?! :)
< 1292431292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose that computer might only have, like, outlook
< 1292431294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case okay
< 1292431296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can attach files that exist at the other end
< 1292431300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292431302 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It might be a server only visible in the LAN
< 1292431308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I think Thunderbird was set up already, but I just typed Evolution out of habit
< 1292431319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's sshfs for that sort of thing.
< 1292431455 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And CGI scripts can product many status codes, if not all; you just output a Status: header in front.
< 1292431466 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Perl, failing to put quotes around a string you're trying to print should not print the string
< 1292431468 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION glares

< 1292431485 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happened was it printed out a garbled thing
< 1292431503 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use something sensible like "use strict; use warnings;".
< 1292431523 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The strictness will disable "bareword" strings in many places.
< 1292431598 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I think it will.
< 1292431622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway, I agree that forwarding a mail client over X pretty much makes no sense
< 1292431653 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Laziness!
< 1292431661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least I have two now, Thunderbird doesn't work if you're logged in twice from different workstations
< 1292431663 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the server isn't SSL-enabled it can.
< 1292431672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh, I can't resist; here's an example of the code:
< 1292431674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c1 = Insert Start End "Hello, world!"
< 1292431674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c2 = Insert c1 End "Goodbye, cruel world!"
< 1292431674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c3 = Replace c1 "Ow, my ear."
< 1292431681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main Data.Maybe> map snd . fromJust $ applyLis [c1,c3] empty
< 1292431681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :["","Ow, my ear.",""]
< 1292431687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where the first and last strings are Start and End)
< 1292431695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and map snd discards blame information)
< 1292431703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main Data.Maybe> map snd . fromJust $ applyLis [c1,c2,c3] empty
< 1292431703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :["","Ow, my ear.","Goodbye, cruel world!",""]
< 1292431704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but:
< 1292431718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main Data.Maybe> applyLis [c1,c3,c2] empty
< 1292431718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing
< 1292431726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the end
< 1292431727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've done most of the urgent and fast tasks now
< 1292431737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how does it handle a merge conflict?
< 1292431745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you mean a failing patch?
< 1292431747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just returns Nothing :)
< 1292431750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :applyLis evaluates in order
< 1292431758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a convenience function
< 1292431771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't validate that the patches make sense unorderedly
< 1292431815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK
< 1292432062 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want a language with no syntax
< 1292432070 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, down?
< 1292432074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: do
< 1292432075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1292432078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: any of the zerodimensional ones?
< 1292432080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: forth
< 1292432096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, the apply function is surprisingly neat!
< 1292432140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://sprunge.us/gZDO the guards are basically a half-assed excuse for not writing a proper validation function, and the do notation is unnecessary, but it's surprisingly simple
< 1292432148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Line is just (Change,String); i.e. (blame,text)
< 1292432301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: basically, I think this can work
< 1292432542 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292432580 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah, i thought about forth
< 1292432601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: But you concluded that it has syntax?
< 1292432644 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's RPN
< 1292432648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Wrong.
< 1292432662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: It just so happens that by default, the mathematical words defined happen to act in a manner similar to RPN calculators.
< 1292432669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth itself has no syntax.
< 1292432691 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, with such language i would enable programmers to define syntaxes just like we define functions
< 1292432694 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then
< 1292432699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Indeed, that is possible in Forth.
< 1292432704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Words can read from the input stream directly.
< 1292432707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a very common technique.
< 1292432712 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit
< 1292432715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can implement C as a Forth word, even, like this:
< 1292432723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run-c int main(void) { return 0; } SPECIAL-END-C-MARKER
< 1292432778 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if i'd like to use forh words between run-c and SPECIAL-END-C-MARKER...
< 1292432788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Sure, you can implement that as part of run-c.
< 1292432810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run-c int main(void) { return HERE-COMES-SOME-FORTH 3 1 2 + - OK-THE-FORTH-IS-OVER-EMBED-THE-TOP-OF-STACK-INTEGER-INTO-THE-PROGRAM; } SPECIAL-END-C-MARKER
< 1292432829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: In fact, : -- the word definition word -- is implemented like run-c, except that it uses the existing "read a Forth word" procedure.
< 1292432841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It simply reads each word, and executes its immediate version.
< 1292432846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is it.
< 1292432850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then terminates on ;.
< 1292432869 0 :jix!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292433188 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you said you found dungeons. Found any records?
< 1292433204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I was blatantly lying.
< 1292433207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry. :p
< 1292433218 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292433218 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so where did you get the TNT?
< 1292433224 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that a lie too?
< 1292433228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I didn't. >_>
< 1292433245 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so you never used any tnt?
< 1292433249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1292433255 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1292433275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The time I said I spent dungeoning was, in fact, spent doing nothing at all.
< 1292433282 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1292433295 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so there goes my plan for public jukebox at subtree
< 1292433450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, when did this become #minecraft?
< 1292433550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: since we all bought minecraft
< 1292433569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in fairness, the alternatives would be silence, or /other/ off-topic stuff
< 1292433613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or scapegoat?
< 1292433626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember this channel used to have ontopic discussions more often
< 1292433629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, offtopic discussions more often
< 1292433638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, the minecraft playing has been ... excessiev
< 1292433641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*excessive
< 1292433926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd make a #scapegoat, except it'd never get any activity ever.
< 1292433932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Project-specific IRC channels rarely do.
< 1292433947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292434083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, #ubuntu tends to be pretty crowded
< 1292434086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially around releases
< 1292434094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ubuntu is a pretty big project :P
< 1292434215 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, incidentally, what was your response to my (awesome) naming scheme for Mitosis?
< 1292434234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Um, I believe I ignored it.
< 1292434245 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :(
< 1292434817 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, down?
< 1292434833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BJAODowN
< 1292434845 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ?
< 1292434848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "Please don't list this on a work's page as a trope.
< 1292434849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Examples can go here, on one of this page's subpages, or the work's YMMV tab."
< 1292434854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: TV Tropes: Now with YMMV tabs.
< 1292435603 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, what is your opinion on the matter?
< 1292435603 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: or something weird like a preprocessor. it creates external files with the code. perhaps in gcc-specific projects, though...
< 1292435796 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION finds it *incredibly* strange that international telephone calls have additional rates.

< 1292435823 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like sending packets over the Atlantic costs much more than sending packets to the other side of the country.
< 1292435840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what people are charged for something depends not on what it actually costs, but on what people are willing to pay for it
< 1292435862 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Aaaand people are morons.
< 1292435862 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck.
< 1292435928 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would like to replace large parts of humanity with rational actors.

< 1292435936 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would make *so much* of economics work better!
< 1292436102 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1292436112 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you forgot well-informed
< 1292436115 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: how would you ensure that that rationality was common knowledge?
< 1292436131 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Ah, right. That too is important.
< 1292436142 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Rationality isn't knowledge, it's a property!
< 1292436173 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: nothing will change if your world is full of rational actors that still think everyone else is irrational and uninformed
< 1292436177 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: also a functioning justice system
< 1292436183 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to make those facts common knowledge to change anything
< 1292436223 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Rational, well-informed actor, then.
< 1292436225 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means proving to all these people that you have the power to make that change....
< 1292436245 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: A set of rational, well-informed actors would probably be inclined to create such a system.
< 1292436246 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@137.125.180.96 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292436252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: But, yeah, we could really do with that.
< 1292436277 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The problem is the other set of rational, well-informed actors with money
< 1292436283 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who don't want a functioning justice system
< 1292436287 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they can have more money that way
< 1292436288 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those, we lynch.
< 1292436301 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: once per day, majority vote?
< 1292436301 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRAISE THE FRENCH REVOLUTION
< 1292436417 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292436433 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION votes elliott as mob

< 1292436446 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's a sneaky bastard.  he has to be mafia.
< 1292436559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq: The problem is the other set of rational, well-informed actors with money
< 1292436559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : who don't want a functioning justice system
< 1292436564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: not rational, well-informed, utilitarian actors with money
< 1292436570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rational, well-informed, selfish actors, sure
< 1292436718 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, down?
< 1292436738 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No
< 1292436758 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes from here
< 1292436762 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1292436768 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you and elliott left
< 1292436777 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so maybe it only works from .fi now
< 1292436808 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Welho
< 1292436813 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm
< 1292436813 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1292436853 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, "no route"
< 1292436874 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well bbl, will make food
< 1292436935 0 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292437282 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"NOT INDICATED FOR CHILDREN OR THOSE OF A NERVOUS DISPOSITION."
< 1292437286 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/jeoacafpbcihiomhlakheieifhpjdfeo Glee.
< 1292437564 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tempted to watch a Let's Play
< 1292437574 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's what screwed me over on Monday...
< 1292437945 0 :SaFi2266!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Ex-Chat
< 1292437975 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, need to conserve battery badly
< 1292438957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Nice.
< 1292438970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But does it have a Firefox version? :p
< 1292439210 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if LAWS_OF_REDDIT is still alive

< 1292439331 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION falls asleep on the chair

< 1292439336 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The chair... of DOOM
< 1292439344 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously, just a chainr
< 1292439616 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, down?
< 1292439621 0 :Ilari!~user@a88-112-50-174.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292439625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nwod.
< 1292439633 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nwod?
< 1292439639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1292439650 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: strrev("dowN") as well as a bit like "nod"
< 1292439689 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292439707 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292439862 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292440453 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I surrender
< 1292440461 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to watch a blind LP of Eversion
< 1292440469 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is the best such LP?
< 1292440504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: QuantumCrayons
< 1292440516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, it's the one I watched
< 1292440531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's hilarious
< 1292440540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBKvtQtKf0s
< 1292440544 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty
< 1292440549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore the suggestions sidebar
< 1292440549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1292440552 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wishes he had headphones with him :/

< 1292440612 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How blind was QC? To the level of not knowing how dark it would get?
< 1292440650 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181141048.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292440678 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292440696 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why was there a banner saying something in Russian, why did I click it, and how do I get YouTube to not be in Russian?
< 1292440726 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to go to comp. lab to get work done
< 1292440727 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BBL
< 1292440729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: He had no idea.
< 1292440787 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :D
< 1292440789 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds fun
< 1292440844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: It's very long -- some 14 parts or something -- because after he did the first ending he repeatedly failed at getting the good ending.
< 1292441056 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292441130 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5141 It's a CNCable transistor.
< 1292441837 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"JavaScript is usually used to add dynamic behavior to sites, to improve the user experience orthogonally to the actual presentation of information. Pornography sites, contrarily, rarely need such additions, as a user presented with the data will improve the user experience themselves."
< 1292442116 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+1
< 1292443433 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292443650 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh god
< 1292443660 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : tswett: Do you have the power to summon oerjan?
< 1292443663 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously not :D
< 1292443664 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do your courts suck so much
< 1292443665 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/12/15/1922205/First-Sale-Doctrine-Lost-Overseas?from=rss
< 1292443729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i want you to work out some complex-sounding yet ultimately meaningless mathematics based on scapegoat patches
< 1292443743 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that topic sort of like the _opposite_ of saying the lord's prayer backwards?
< 1292443745 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292443799 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah.  i guess in that case you may have triggered my intrinsic magical defenses against work.  no wonder tswett's summoning didn't work.
< 1292443815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i've even stated it in haskell for you!
< 1292443836 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1292444041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the language you helped father.
< 1292444045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by greatly aiding in its development.
< 1292444051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i'd say you probably invented half of haskell.
< 1292444219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dark: 3d3d3d
< 1292444224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :light:9b9b9b
< 1292444285 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes those don't sum to ffffff

< 1292444309 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think some kind of semi-dynamic analysis could be made that can work with TAVSYS to make it check things such as proving the game is always in a winnable state, or that things must be done in a certain sequence in the game, and so on?
< 1292444333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed
< 1292444359 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: BUT THAT MEANS YOU HAVE BROKEN THE DUALITY BETWEEN LIGHT AND DARKNESS
< 1292444363 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate" is not the Lord's Prayer.
< 1292444378 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er.
< 1292444382 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since the sum < FFFFFF, not in the correct direction either
< 1292444391 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, it's sort of the opposite of the Lord's Prayer.  So yes, precisely.
< 1292444409 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan greatly aided in the development of Haskell?
< 1292444420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, he's in the haskell 98 report
< 1292444421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292444431 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: apart from the ridiculous hyperbole, there _might_ be a trace of truth there
< 1292444441 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The man himself is in the Report?
< 1292444456 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh... doing Fsck on these disks takes a long time...
< 1292444461 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah they extracted some of my organs and embedded them
< 1292444470 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a typesafe way
< 1292444494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : tswett: apart from the ridiculous hyperbole, there _might_ be a trace of truth there
< 1292444496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO EGOTISTICAL
< 1292444516 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just a scheduled one, not unclean shutdown)
< 1292444716 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would appear that clog has murdered all the other bots here
< 1292444780 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe clog just should be very very afraid
< 1292444956 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, mc crashed
< 1292444960 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, null pointer
< 1292444965 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1292445093 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ... FIRST SALE DOCTRINE.
< 1292445105 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: YES
< 1292445107 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You are MOTHER-FUCKING KIDDING ME.
< 1292445140 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT IS BULLSHIT.
< 1292445144 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCKING BULLSHIT.
< 1292445329 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck the US. I'm moving to the Moon.
< 1292445453 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1292445485 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah move to the secret nazi base there
< 1292445486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think the decision that the right not to be searched without a warrant doesn't apply within 100 miles of a border or any international airport is even more ridiculous
< 1292445496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, what place in the US isn't?
< 1292445508 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181141048.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292445531 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Very very ridiculous.
< 1292445542 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ... *100 miles of an international airport too*?
< 1292445545 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, then.
< 1292445549 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That leaves us... Uh.
< 1292445552 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, what
< 1292445556 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parts of Alaska.
< 1292445591 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not like the submission rules of arXiv and viXra. I should propose the following:
< 1292445613 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* You must submit a DVI file containing no specials, and using only fonts in the font repository. You may submit fonts to the font repository.
< 1292445630 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* In addition to the DVI file, your submission must contain exactly one attachment, no more, no less.
< 1292445682 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yeah, it has been ruled that the 4th amendment's "search and seizure" clause does not apply within 100 miles of a border.
< 1292445695 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that it doesn't apply "at the border".
< 1292445710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where "the border" is a 100 mile strip from a land border or sea cost.
< 1292445721 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* The attachment must be in one of the following formats (optionally compressed by gzip): .tex .w .web .zip
< 1292445731 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wait what
< 1292445732 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link
< 1292445733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is actually used. Border patrol actually has inland checkpoints.
< 1292445734 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* It must be valid free cultural works.
< 1292445742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.aclu.org/national-security_technology-and-liberty/are-you-living-constitution-free-zone
< 1292445748 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.aclu.org/technology-and-liberty/fact-sheet-us-constitution-free-zone
< 1292445748 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Pornography is not permitted.
< 1292445794 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some 2/3rds of the US population lives within the "border".
< 1292445813 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* You must include a form with your submission including title, authors (which are allowed to be anonymous if wanted, but you are not allowed to lie about who the author is), short description, and tags/categories.
< 1292445826 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Submission is done using HTTP or FTP.
< 1292445839 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: goddamit your country
< 1292445839 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think these submission rules are better?
< 1292445853 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It is very literally a police state.
< 1292445893 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: We also set up "free speech zones" for protests. You can be arrested for protesting outside of them.
< 1292445894 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, one more attachment format: .tar
< 1292445922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: any restrictions on what can be inside the tarball or zip archive?
< 1292445973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: my interpretation of free speech is that you can say what you like, but other people aren't obliged to give you communication channels
< 1292445977 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, although someone can report it if it is considered to contain improper things.
< 1292445996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The government, however, is obligated not to stop you.
< 1292446003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: indeed
< 1292446006 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And they do.
< 1292446025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, are any of the amendments more or less intact?
< 1292446049 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523,pikhq: I agree with your interpretation of free speech. Nobody is obliged to give you communication channels but the government is obligated to not stop you from free speech. It makes sense.
< 1292446051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ironically, the 2nd amendment is probably the least abused.
< 1292446079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one's that?
< 1292446085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not being american, I don't have them memorised by number?
< 1292446087 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right to bear arms.
< 1292446089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes
< 1292446100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the spirit of the 2nd is completely gone
< 1292446102 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I presume you meant "of the amendments naming rights".
< 1292446114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea was that people should be able to form private militias to defend themselves against the government
< 1292446120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that seems a little unlikely
< 1292446132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People still can form private militias, and the crazies actually *do*.
< 1292446133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hmm, although they mostly name either rights or restrictions
< 1292446134 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FLOODY TIME
< 1292446135 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :---: I keep thinking "Fujita, what does your enhanced scale say about the tornado's power level? IT'S APPROXIMATELY TWOOOOOOOOOO!"
< 1292446135 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CDGregorR: It's not Fujita's enhanced scale, it's Fujita's scale, enhanced.
< 1292446135 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :---: Fujita, what does your scale, enhanced, say about the tornado's power level? IT'S APPROXIMATELY TWOOOOOOOOOO! ... enhanced
< 1292446136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or else repeal each other
< 1292446140 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CDGregorR: FUJITA IS DEAD
< 1292446143 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :---: Zombie Fujita, what does your scale, enhanced, say about the tornado's power level? Nnnnnnngngggggggggnngh! ... enhanced
< 1292446144 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Or change procedural details.
< 1292446145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yep, but a private militia isn't going to do a lot against the US army
< 1292446151 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not being american, it may be disturbing that i _do_ know 1, 2 and 5 by number.  no guarantees of having their _content_ correctly...
< 1292446158 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cough*Iraq*cough*
< 1292446173 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Eh, those are the ones that Americans actually know.
< 1292446176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well, it could work defensively, I suppose
< 1292446179 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also do not live in United States.
< 1292446187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would lead to a lot of bloodshed yet not get anywhere
< 1292446197 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: *GASP*  um canadian then?
< 1292446212 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: They may actually be aware of the details of others, but not actually know them by number.
< 1292446218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, -0800 timezone
< 1292446220 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I live in Canada. You might be able to figure out from my IP address my service provider too
< 1292446226 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i certainly had the impression you were north american
< 1292446231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty west for most parts of North America
< 1292446233 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for instance, most Americans are probably aware that Prohibition was created and repealed via amendments)
< 1292446235 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And from the timezone you can figure out the province.
< 1292446265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been west of Ottawa
< 1292446293 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll probably find most everyone unaware of the 9th and 10th amendments.
< 1292446335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(9th states the enumeration of rights is not comprehensive, 10th states that any powers not given to the federal government are for the states or the people.)
< 1292446364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, 10's abused a lot
< 1292446372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what does 9 do, if anything/
< 1292446375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like Agora's R101
< 1292446425 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Nominally, it means that the government does not grant rights at all, but that there are rights completely independent of it, and that the government should not infringe them.
< 1292446445 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: In practice, it means that people like to use the Bill of Rights as toilet paper.
< 1292446457 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION also may have a vague idea of 13 and 14, if he recalls the numbers right

< 1292446476 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Where in the constitution does it say separation of church and state? :P
< 1292446482 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: 1st.
< 1292446510 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm kidding
< 1292446518 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not!
< 1292446522 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was referencing the fact that someone actually asked that at a political debate
< 1292446526 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a /candidate/
< 1292446528 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it need to say separation of church and state? I agree with separation of church and state, but does the law need to say it explicitly?
< 1292446542 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Look at US political debate.
< 1292446548 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It needs to be the most explicit thing.
< 1292446550 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yes.
< 1292446551 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it does.
< 1292446562 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and apparently the establishment clause is not sufficiently clear
< 1292446563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there are enough idiots in politics that even if you do say something explicitly, some people won't get it
< 1292446605 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also fun is people who shout "treason" like crazy in the US.
< 1292446614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Treason is actually defined *in the Constitution*!
< 1292446617 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that one's happened here
< 1292446627 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i vaguely recall reading that before the amendment that extended the bill of rights to apply to states and not just congress, there were states in the US that had an official religion
< 1292446631 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps I don't know because I don't live in United States. If I did live there, probably I would know. But I don't want to live in United States. If I have too much money I can make up a country instead.
< 1292446633 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People are accusing Assange of treason!
< 1292446649 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: does treason including sharing state secrets?
< 1292446653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I know, and he isn't actually American
< 1292446654 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: No.
< 1292446664 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ok then
< 1292446670 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ours does, but only to wartime enemies)
< 1292446681 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but public revelation could arguably count if we have a wartime enemy)
< 1292446735 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Treason in the US is levying war against the US.
< 1292446746 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or giving aid to the US's enemies in war.
< 1292446832 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The section of the US code defining treason and its punishment also states that you must owe allegiance to the US in the first place.
< 1292446844 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making it literally impossible for a non-US citizen to commit treason in the US.
< 1292446868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people are furious enough in the UK at Sweden apparently trying to abuse our legal processes
< 1292446871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt Assange
< 1292446919 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It amazes me the effort that Sweden is going to to get Assange.
< 1292446933 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The punishment for what he's accused of is a ~$700 fine.
< 1292446956 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously. They are expending all their effort on a slap on the wrist.
< 1292447008 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: in which case it somewhat amazes that assange doesn't simply agree to the extradition - the UK is no less likely than Sweden to give him further trouble, is it?
< 1292447032 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it the US should ask for an extradition, say)
< 1292447033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think he's objecting on principle
< 1292447042 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*amazes me
< 1292447058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I do not like the submission rules of arXiv and viXra. I should propose the following:
< 1292447059 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: He did turn himself in as soon as an arrest warrant was out for him in the UK.
< 1292447059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh jesus christ
< 1292447067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why would you extradite someone over a $700 fine?
< 1292447069 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: And now he is simply going through the full court process.
< 1292447071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Pornography is not permitted.
< 1292447074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what about Gregor's papers
< 1292447077 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Even worse.
< 1292447078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all the pornography-detection result
< 1292447081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is actually real)
< 1292447091 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: He's not even wanted for the punishment of the $700 fine.
< 1292447092 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hm i guess he might simply just want to have things as much in the media as possible
< 1292447097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: as far as I can tell, everyone's complying with due process so far, both the UK and Assange
< 1292447099 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: He's wanted as a witness *regarding* the case.
< 1292447110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so who's the accused, then?
< 1292447113 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: He is.
< 1292447128 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Descrobe about Gregor's papers.
< 1292447130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think I'm missing something here
< 1292447158 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The prosecution is being all sorts of crazy.
< 1292447185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this feels more like an SCO scale of crazy
< 1292447192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Gregor's papers have involved analysis of pornographic websites.
< 1292447204 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He got charged. The charges were dropped. The charges were picked up again. He stayed around for a couple *months* waiting for them to ask for a deposition. He then left to the UK. *Then* they wanted him in court.
< 1292447205 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are allowed to describe things relating to pornography if it has possible scientific merit, your paper is just not allowed to include any pornography itself.
< 1292447210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: also, there is plenty of legitimate research which includes (censored) pornography; mostly work on content detection, to help block pornographic materials.
< 1292447220 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: But Lenna!
< 1292447221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these images are required to demonstrate the strengths and drawbacks of the methods
< 1292447258 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If it is sufficiently censored that only the part necessary for scientific research is included, you may include it.
< 1292447270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ok, and why does it matter if it's not censored? hypothetically
< 1292447287 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing that is prohibited is explicit pornography that is not related to the scientific issue at hand.
< 1292447292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, if you're going to start censoring pornography, might as well add a "and no instruction on how to make bombs either!" clause
< 1292447295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems strange to single pornography out
< 1292447306 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh, and crazier. He has actually told the prosecution he would be entirely willing to give a deposition outside of Sweden.
< 1292447320 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instructions to make bombs are permitted. Pornography is also permitted as long as only relevant parts are included.
< 1292447325 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: do the current guidelines include anything about pornography? otherwise, _why the heck mention something almost completely irrelevant to the archive_?
< 1292447331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think someone's milking this for publicity, but am not entirely sure who
< 1292447334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps, everyone involved at once
< 1292447357 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By disallowing pornography I didn't mean to prohibit legitimate scientific research. I mean to prohibit someone posting free pornography there so that people can just watch pornography all the time.
< 1292447369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: btw, I need your help to defeat an Agoran scam
< 1292447370 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to watch pornography, you can find it a lot elsewhere.
< 1292447376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without 8 objections
< 1292447382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I need all the objections I can get, really
< 1292447384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think, and this is just a wild guess here, that zzo38 really dislikes pornography
< 1292447391 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you don't say
< 1292447392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, I like scams, sorry
< 1292447394 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also link to it in your article if it is important.
< 1292447402 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't imagine elliott ever defeating a scam
< 1292447413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: maybe with another failed scam that just happens to stop the other one working, accidentally :D
< 1292447417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, the scam itself is boring, it's just an escalator by changing the number of objections needed to block a ratification from 1 to 8
< 1292447425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas getting 8 people to agree on anything is a lot more fun
< 1292447490 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh, and meanwhile, people in the US Justice Department are trying to *find* things to charge Assange with.
< 1292447508 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And Senators are wanting to make an ex post facto law regarding this.
< 1292447519 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your file contains such things as the permitted kinds of pornography, or profanity, or whatever else like that, you should tag it as such "pornography", "profanity", and so on.
< 1292447531 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I know, it's hilarious
< 1292447537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: why not just "being Julian Assange is illegal?"
< 1292447538 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you people are just so bad at government
< 1292447539 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that people who do not like to watch it can filter it out.
< 1292447542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems pretty foolproof
< 1292447553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't even need to be retroactive
< 1292447558 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Not that the UK is any better.
< 1292447570 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: They're wanting to ban protests in response to the recent student protests.
< 1292447573 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, ban protests.
< 1292447583 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: legislators are saying this?
< 1292447583 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because *that's* going to help.
< 1292447583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can give him a slap on the wrist the first time, then successively higher punishments for not ceasing the behaviour
< 1292447589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I haven't heard anything of that, and I'm in the UK
< 1292447602 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is there some kind of constitution that disallows banning protests?
< 1292447604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was even a discussion about whether to use water cannon or not, and they decided no
< 1292447607 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/student-protests-may-be-banned-altogether-if-violence-continues-2160620.html
< 1292447611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the UK doesn't have an explicit constitution
< 1292447614 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: constitution? uk? hah
< 1292447626 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thankfully not Parliament.
< 1292447628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: broken link
< 1292447636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If your file contains such things as the permitted kinds of pornography, or profanity, or whatever else like that, you should tag it as such "pornography", "profanity", and so on.
< 1292447637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: fuck that
< 1292447638 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh, ok
< 1292447643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no it isn't, I forgot the l at the end
< 1292447656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's just the London police force
< 1292447662 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what about the european human rights convention?  i'm sure you're a member
< 1292447673 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, yes they are.
< 1292447678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're all embarrased at the moment because someone broke Prince Charles' car's window
< 1292447682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't even bulletproof or anything
< 1292447703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how do you know that wasn't intentional :D
< 1292447706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: we are
< 1292447723 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that sounds a little reckless.
< 1292447728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way protesting in the UK goes, is you're supposed to tell the police in advance
< 1292447728 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Anything wrong with this kind of tagging?
< 1292447743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they make sure that there isn't going to be a huge riot or anything
< 1292447743 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: In a comical way that doesn't directly give the courts to invalidate an Act of Parliament, but hey.
< 1292447746 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i wonder if the norwegian king has a bulletproof car.  i know the prime minister does.
< 1292447754 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, give the courts the power to
< 1292447761 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the police are really embarassed at the moment because everyone knew the protest was happening, and yet they screwed up
< 1292447815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a little strange that the heir to the throne can drive around in an ordinary car in the middle of a riot...
< 1292447820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say what actually happened was a little inevitable
< 1292447833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that the police considered shooting, but decided against it
< 1292447858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the police in the UK generally aren't armed, there are a few armed officers but they're generally only deployed when there's reason to think they might be necessary, say in response to armed criminals)
< 1292447874 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's much saner than the US.
< 1292447882 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Example: If the author owns a store for selling pornography, they may identify themself as the owner of such a store. You may not include the logo if it is pornographic (unless it is important to the article in some way), but you may link to it.
< 1292447896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: indeed
< 1292447909 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: US police are all armed, and they have an actual *paramilitary unit* they use in response to armed criminals.
< 1292447912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also means, if you see an armed policeman, you know something serious is going on
< 1292447913 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it makes sense now?
< 1292447920 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ah.  norway has made laws to give some conventions precedence over our ordinary laws, including that one.
< 1292447926 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the armed policemen generally carry really big and obvious guns so everyone knows they're armed, incidentally)
< 1292447934 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Members_of_the_37th_Training_Wing's_Emergency_Services_Team_at_Lackland_AFB.jpg THESE ARE FUCKING POLICE.
< 1292447979 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, those are assault rifles.
< 1292448020 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all our police are armed
< 1292448023 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks to you
< 1292448042 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and these guys are also used for riot control.
< 1292448053 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And searches.
< 1292448124 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :norwegian police isn't usually armed either
< 1292448131 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially no-knock warrants, where your first indication of their wanting to do anything is *breaking down your door and threatening your life if you don't comply*.
< 1292448158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the UK police famously do that at dawn
< 1292448173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they normally don't shoot at you, just arrest you if you don't comply
< 1292448230 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you should be permitted to eat yourself as defense against threats made against you by the police.
< 1292448243 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you fire back at all you will be charged with assault.
< 1292448257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: not really, what if the person makes bombs?
< 1292448261 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except in Texas, where their trespassing gives you full license to kill them.
< 1292448277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, why do you have a rule against pornography -- which is almost irrelevant in this case -- and no rules against, say, bigotry?
< 1292448397 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Because anything should be allowed in these articles. Only, some people do not like to watch pornography, so you should not include it if it is not necessary. Anyways, the article must be a DVI file containing no specials. You may use profanity in your article, but you may not use profanity in the title unless the article is related to such things (for example, a article about brainfuck programming language may contain the word "brainf
< 1292448412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: some people do not like to read statements of racial hatred
< 1292448415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't that banned too?
< 1292448434 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It is banned in submissions that do not have the tag "racial hatred" assigned to them.
< 1292448447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: okay. what about papers containing the word "weasel"
< 1292448452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people do not like to read that word
< 1292448454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so surely it should be a tag?
< 1292448524 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, it isn't a common enough thing to worry about, like racism and profanity and so on, are. But since some people disagree with restrictions against profanity, it is still allowed as long as it is tagged as such.
< 1292448570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the way zzo38's comment was cut off after the f of brainfuck
< 1292448575 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to read article only about mathematics, you may tag search "+mathematics", but if you want only articles about mathematics that have no profanity, you can tag search "+mathematics&-profanity".
< 1292448577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after the n, here
< 1292448588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: okay, then why isn't pornography allowed, but just in articles tagged "pornography"?
< 1292448589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different server, probably
< 1292448593 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ...uck programming language may contain the word "brainfuck" in its title).
< 1292448602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just the most hilarious place to cut it off in a discussion about censorshi
< 1292448605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*censorship
< 1292448652 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I suppose it can be allowed in articles tagged "pornography". You are right about that.
< 1292448720 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My concern is that some people might want to go there only to view pornography. It doesn't seem likely, especially that you must submit a DVI without specials and that any picture file attachments must be in an archive file instead of directly, So maybe it doesn't matter.
< 1292448775 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Gregor: no bots today
< 1292448783 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: See?
< 1292448811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay.
< 1292448841 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there is a general principle that you don't make up rules for things that aren't likely to be problems
< 1292448920 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/don't/shouldn't/
< 1292448923 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: In that case, such a rule should not be required. Just the tagging rule can be used.
< 1292448981 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have many kind of search functions, for example if you want to find only an article that will fit on letter-sized paper.
< 1292449044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would anyone search based on that?
< 1292449054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if the article had the wrong paper size, it could be scaled
< 1292449073 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's international Bot Awareness Day
< 1292449079 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ah
< 1292449086 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292449087 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292449093 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo hi
< 1292449108 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1292449113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's slow even when it just entered...
< 1292449113 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I suppose it could also be recompiled from source if you modify the source files for the document.
< 1292449143 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it might still be something you want to search. You might also want to search by filesize, by number of pages, by attachments, by tags, etc.
< 1292449148 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  I love the way zzo38's comment was cut off after the f of brainfuck   that's just the most hilarious place to cut it off in a discussion about censorshi
< 1292449151 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :250)  I love the way zzo38's comment was cut off after the f of brainfuck   that's just the most hilarious place to cut it off in a discussion about censorshi
< 1292449153 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or by which fonts are used....
< 1292449156 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's slow ESPECIALLY when it's just entered.
< 1292449207 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i had this idea that it was slow because it sometimes needed to dredge itself up from a cache, and that that wouldn't apply if it just had done something including entering
< 1292449230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: stop making me want to delete every quote :D
< 1292449254 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's wrong about that one? :(
< 1292449271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh never mine :D
< 1292449274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind.
< 1292449329 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Pretty much.
< 1292449350 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for the including entering part, apparently
< 1292449396 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose other things you might want to have search criteria is: title, author, date, description, filename, fonts, etc. And possibly a few more in the case of literate programs.
< 1292449439 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Today must be the national No Bots Day.
< 1292449494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: eh?
< 1292449501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant the omission of the p, thought it was intentional
< 1292449520 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: er that last was a response to Gregor
< 1292449564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat
< 1292449566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1292449566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1292449570 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well we may never know but i doubt it :)
< 1292449644 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292449655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 250
< 1292449655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p
< 1292449664 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*poof*
< 1292449689 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292449701 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :(
< 1292449739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh fine add it back :P
< 1292449764 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert
< 1292449766 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1292449819 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"•In Frankfurt, they call them wieners (after Wien, or Vienna). In Vienna, however, they call them frankfurters. The fact that neither city wants to claim credit for them might tell you something.
< 1292449822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: erm let's hope that worked :D
< 1292449824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 250
< 1292449826 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292449829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 249
< 1292449832 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :249)  oklofok: I don't watch House, no.   oklofok: I prefer knowing how medicine actually works.
< 1292449843 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: huh why not?
< 1292449855 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from yesterday's iwc annotation, updated)
< 1292449871 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Android operating system consists of 12 million lines of code including 3 million lines of XML, 2.8 million lines of C, 2.1 million lines of Java, and 1.75 million lines of C++.[19]"
< 1292449875 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XML?!
< 1292449898 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk
< 1292449908 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's because it's so verbose
< 1292449915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert
< 1292449917 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define "line".
< 1292449917 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1292449918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 250
< 1292449921 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292449923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help
< 1292449924 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
< 1292449963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292449997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so is the p intentional or not :P
< 1292450001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not i'll add it with the p
< 1292451181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Every physicist wants to violate Einstein, but thus far the great man has remained pretty chaste."
< 1292451209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote "Every physicist wants to violate Einstein, but thus far the great man has remained pretty chaste." --Kode Vicious
< 1292451215 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :250) "Every physicist wants to violate Einstein, but thus far the great man has remained pretty chaste." --Kode Vicious
< 1292451288 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the absense of the p is the whole _point_ of the quote, sheesh (and it was ais523's mistake, not mine)
< 1292451297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*absence
< 1292451301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right
< 1292451305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: re-add it then :P
< 1292451320 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but why didn't the revert work?
< 1292451335 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was there some privmsg reverted instead?
< 1292451412 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  I love the way zzo38's comment was cut off after the f of brainfuck   that's just the most hilarious place to cut it off in a discussion about censorshi
< 1292451413 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :251)  I love the way zzo38's comment was cut off after the f of brainfuck   that's just the most hilarious place to cut it off in a discussion about censorshi
< 1292451424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think revert only works with a revision number nowadays
< 1292451430 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292451438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 266
< 1292451440 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1292451441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 250
< 1292451442 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :250) "Every physicist wants to violate Einstein, but thus far the great man has remained pretty chaste." --Kode Vicious
< 1292451445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1292451446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not :D
< 1292451447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 250
< 1292451448 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :250)  I love the way zzo38's comment was cut off after the f of brainfuck   that's just the most hilarious place to cut it off in a discussion about censorshi
< 1292451450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there
< 1292451454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote "Every physicist wants to violate Einstein, but thus far the great man has remained pretty chaste." --Kode Vicious
< 1292451454 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :251) "Every physicist wants to violate Einstein, but thus far the great man has remained pretty chaste." --Kode Vicious
< 1292451472 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what >_<
< 1292451486 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that line is brilliant
< 1292451486 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/revert
< 1292451487 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure he meant to finish that with "censorshit"
< 1292451487 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292451499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, it's okay
< 1292451505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: just sometimes, it takes a while to merge the repository
< 1292451512 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292451514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: basically, "`A" and then "`B" both execute in separate repositories
< 1292451522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: then, after they finish, an "hg commit" is done
< 1292451528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it tries to merge it into the main repository
< 1292451533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so sometimes you have to wait
< 1292451542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not separate repositories, just separate / checkouts
< 1292451604 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 249
< 1292451605 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :249)  oklofok: I don't watch House, no.   oklofok: I prefer knowing how medicine actually works.
< 1292451629 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1292451630 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :128)  Darn, now I can't acknowledge the reference you were making.
< 1292451730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastenquotes
< 1292451731 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.11835
< 1292451733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: quote feast for you
< 1292451826 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, there was one of mine in there
< 1292451869 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote olsner
< 1292451871 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :175)  i think of languages as tools, there is no holy grail of languages    even if there's no holy grail, that doesn't mean cups of crap is ok \ 222)  olsner, FINALLY NOTHING BETWEEN ME AND WORLD DOMINATION! \ 223)  DAMN YOU, I'm leaving   olsner, FINALLY NOTHING BETWEEN ME AND WORLD
< 1292451927 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 223
< 1292451928 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :223)  DAMN YOU, I'm leaving   olsner, FINALLY NOTHING BETWEEN ME AND WORLD DOMINATION!
< 1292451942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 222
< 1292451943 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*poof*
< 1292451947 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote olsner
< 1292451948 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :175)  i think of languages as tools, there is no holy grail of languages    even if there's no holy grail, that doesn't mean cups of crap is ok \ 222)  DAMN YOU, I'm leaving   olsner, FINALLY NOTHING BETWEEN ME AND WORLD DOMINATION! \ 238)  elliott: just to bring you up to speed, you are
< 1292451973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote fuck
< 1292451974 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :249)  I love the way zzo38's comment was cut off after the f of brainfuck   that's just the most hilarious place to cut it off in a discussion about censorshi
< 1292451983 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 238
< 1292451984 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :238)  elliott: just to bring you up to speed, you are now my baby nephew.   wtf, elliott is a nephew and his uncle is here?   what   Heck yes I'm elliott's uncle.
< 1292452045 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote f.ck
< 1292452046 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292452052 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote f\.ck
< 1292452053 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292452066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what happened to yon regexen?
< 1292452092 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/quote
< 1292452093 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/sh \ allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then \     if [ "$(($1+0))" = "$1" ]; then \         sed "$1q;d" \     else \         egrep -i -- "$1" \     fi \ else shuf -n 1; fi
< 1292452157 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote f\\.ck
< 1292452157 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292452161 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote f\\\.ck
< 1292452162 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292452222 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote f\(\.\)ck
< 1292452222 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292452230 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote fuck
< 1292452231 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :249)  I love the way zzo38's comment was cut off after the f of brainfuck   that's just the most hilarious place to cut it off in a discussion about censorshi
< 1292452253 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote ck
< 1292452255 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3)  Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened...  More practice is in order. \ 4)  that's where I got it  rocket launch facility gift shop \ 9)  Lil`Cube: you had cavity searches?  not yet  trying to
< 1292452275 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know if you can quote search to result only the numbers?
< 1292452279 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote mm.
< 1292452280 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292452309 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you could sed the result?
< 1292452313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...what happened to yon regexen?
< 1292452316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good question
< 1292452334 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am assuming some horrible shell escape disease here
< 1292452339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run x="f.ck"; [ "$(($x+0))" = "$x" ] && echo poop
< 1292452340 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292452344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run x="f.ck"; [ "$(($x+0))" = "$x" ] && echo poop; echo pang
< 1292452345 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292452347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what.
< 1292452354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run x="f.ck"; [ "$(($x+0))" = "$x" ] && echo poop 2>&1; echo pang
< 1292452355 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292452357 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, make a new program quotesearch that you can do that?
< 1292452359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run x="f.ck"; [ "$(($x+0))" = "$x" ] && echo poop 2>&1; echo pang 2>&1
< 1292452359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf
< 1292452359 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292452364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no, no real reason for it to exist
< 1292452368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just sed
< 1292452386 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: um that _shouldn't_ trigger that condition, should it?
< 1292452387 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Then you will run it in a shell.
< 1292452418 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo no output
< 1292452419 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no output
< 1292452424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but i had an echo after it
< 1292452436 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh
< 1292452436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the programs are shell scripts anyway
< 1292452448 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes.
< 1292452552 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quote ck | sed 's/).*$//'
< 1292452553 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 \ 4 \ 9 \ 10 \ 13 \ 41 \ 43 \ 57 \ 61 \ 87 \ 88 \ 110 \ 123 \ 128 \ 129 \ 163 \ 164 \ 177 \ 186 \ 189 \ 217 \ 224 \ 238 \ 239 \ 241 \ 249
< 1292452597 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quote ck | wc
< 1292452598 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :26     569    3294
< 1292452627 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quote zzo38 | wc
< 1292452628 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5      95     565
< 1292452647 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote .
< 1292452648 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292452653 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote \.
< 1292452654 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292452660 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quote "."
< 1292452661 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292452668 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quote "\."
< 1292452669 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292452671 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quote "\\."
< 1292452672 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292452675 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quote "\\\."
< 1292452675 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292452678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quote "\\\\."
< 1292452679 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292452682 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quote "\\\\\."
< 1292452682 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292452730 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That means there is something wrong with it and you have to correct that program.
< 1292452781 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quote elliott | wc
< 1292452782 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11     194    1181
< 1292452790 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quote esoteric | wc
< 1292452790 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1      19     105
< 1292452793 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run if [ "f.ck" ]; then echo yes; else echo no; fi
< 1292452794 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1292452852 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quote Gregor | wc
< 1292452853 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17     342    2102
< 1292452869 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders why Amazon doesn't offer products not sold in the local domestic markets...

< 1292452886 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quote oerjan | wc
< 1292452886 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12     222    1318
< 1292452891 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run if [ "$(("f.ck"+0))" = "f.ck" ]; then echo yes; else echo no; fi
< 1292452891 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292452893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote f(u|x)ck
< 1292452894 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292452894 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely they could make *some* money off of import gamers or something.
< 1292452897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote felt
< 1292452899 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292452900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote bin/quote
< 1292452902 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292452903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/quote
< 1292452904 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/sh \ allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then \     if [ "$(($1+0))" = "$1" ]; then \         sed "$1q;d" \     else \         egrep -i -- "$1" \     fi \ else shuf -n 1; fi
< 1292452915 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quote Japan | wc
< 1292452916 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0       0       0
< 1292452917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run allquotes | egrep -i -- "f.ck"
< 1292452920 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :249)  I love the way zzo38's comment was cut off after the f of brainfuck   that's just the most hilarious place to cut it off in a discussion about censorshi
< 1292452923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1292452929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i say oerjan fixes it
< 1292452932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs away screaming

< 1292452993 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can a file be uploaded to HackEgo? Is there a FTP or something to do so?
< 1292453009 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But *no*, the only way to get something from Japan via Amazon is to pay exhorbitant shipping & handling fees.
< 1292453014 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sh -c 'if [ "$(("f.ck"+0))" = "f.ck" ];' 2>&1
< 1292453016 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/sh: Syntax error: end of file unexpected (expecting "then")
< 1292453021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1292453029 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(¥2,700 per shipment! That's ~$27!)
< 1292453042 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sh -c 'if [ "$(("f.ck"+0))" = "f.ck" ]; then echo yes; else echo no; fi' 2&>1
< 1292453043 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292453066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1292453081 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sh -c 'if [ "$((f.ck+0))" = "f.ck" ]; then echo yes; else echo no; fi' 2&>1
< 1292453082 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292453109 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there's a wget i think
< 1292453112 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: There are some things they won't ship from Japan. But I have managed to order things from Japan though a local Japanese book store.
< 1292453171 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Is it possible to copy the other way too?
< 1292453182 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1292453199 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "$((f.ck+0)"
< 1292453200 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292453213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: one more ), but aha
< 1292453215 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`which paste
< 1292453215 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/hackenv.32135/bin/paste
< 1292453216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's escaping
< 1292453220 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "$((f.ck+0))"
< 1292453221 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292453242 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: paste
< 1292453258 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then download from repository
< 1292453316 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat bin/paste
< 1292453317 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/bash \ if [ ! "$1" ] \ then \     PASTE=- \ else \     PASTE="$1" \ fi \  \ PASTENUM="$RANDOM" \  \ mkdir -p $HACKENV/paste \  \ echo 'http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.'"$PASTENUM" \ cat "$PASTE" > $HACKENV/paste/paste."$PASTENUM"
< 1292453343 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is there no FTP?
< 1292453360 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask Gregor
< 1292453381 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION needs a job.

< 1292453389 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for one thing the machine probably doesn't accept outside connections...
< 1292453407 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm except web, obviously
< 1292453441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "$((f.ck+0))" 2&>1
< 1292453442 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292453450 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no error message :(
< 1292453459 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sh -c 'echo "$((f.ck+0))"' 2&>1
< 1292453460 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292453483 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sh -c 'echo hi "$((f.ck+0))" ho' 2&>1
< 1292453484 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292453491 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't put other connection allow? On my computer I allowed outside connection for a few different services and might add more later. You can do similar if you need to or if you want to.
< 1292453519 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/You/Gregor/
< 1292453544 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest of us cannot escape the sandbox
< 1292453547 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean in general.
< 1292453558 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not necessarily on HackEgo, either.
< 1292453564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'll fix it in a bit
< 1292453582 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Gregor should put FTP or whatever other connection in HackEgo if there is a use for it.
< 1292453586 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: good because i have no idea what $((...)) even _does_ :D
< 1292453662 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "$((2+2)"
< 1292453663 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292453667 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "$((2+2))"
< 1292453668 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4
< 1292453677 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok now i have _some_ idea
< 1292453694 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "$((a+2))"
< 1292453695 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2
< 1292453702 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "$((f.ck+2))"
< 1292453703 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292453717 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "$((r.ck+2))"
< 1292453718 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292453744 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i suspect maybe $(()) simply doesn't support this string stuff?
< 1292453762 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "$((2 . 2))"
< 1292453763 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292453770 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "$((a . b))"
< 1292453771 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292453782 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see which ports I have available for incoming connections (although not all of them have servers on it all the time):  25  70  80  194  9876
< 1292453783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh
< 1292453814 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have servers on 25 and 9876 only when needed, and then I turn it off.)
< 1292453979 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, zzo38: You have an HTTP proxy, no other networking at all.
< 1292454344 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The router I have is stupid, it cannot be configured using FTP or USB or anything else. Also, it seems you cannot disable doing configuration by wirelessly, and occasionally it will stop working even though the light is still flashing.
< 1292454568 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that's the case with most routers I've used
< 1292454576 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it is stupid)
< 1292454646 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A friend had a network printer which had a FTP server built in; when you uploaded a postscript file, it printed it out.
< 1292454672 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It did of course speak some more printery protocols too.)
< 1292454677 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And Telnet.)
< 1292454755 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to see a printer with Plan 9 protocol built in.
< 1292454938 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292455348 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292455387 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292455626 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1292456717 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1292457136 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it seems like the LP is missing videos
< 1292457287 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or not
< 1292457659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: server down?
< 1292457692 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope
< 1292458246 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eversion LP > Homework
< 1292458848 0 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292459992 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1292460786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit, ais went again
< 1292461010 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: maintenance
< 1292461089 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=integral+of+4-x+from+-1+to+0 Wolfram Alpha mistaken here, or am I screwing up my math?
< 1292461115 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In all likelihood it's you. :-P
< 1292461187 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You're screwing up.
< 1292461246 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4(0) - 0 - [-4 - 1/2] = +5/2
< 1292461254 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait what?
< 1292461269 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION slaps self

< 1292461325 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, you're screwing up.
< 1292461656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Down?
< 1292462056 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292462932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you're about to be made active in agora
< 1292462936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then what if people invade?!
< 1292462943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can't even get 8 objectors to a dangerous scammer right now!!!
< 1292462944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SAVE AGORA
< 1292463048 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why 8?
< 1292463051 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not 20?
< 1292463163 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought everyone was so in love with "It should be so difficult to make arbitrary power-1 changes, no need to defend power-3 stuff against power-1 stuff" argumet
< 1292463167 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*argument
< 1292463221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's 8.
< 1292463227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case.
< 1292463229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ratification scam.
< 1292463400 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Objected
< 1292463447 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Agoran culture's fault
< 1292463457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whine whine whine
< 1292463462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like scams.
< 1292463469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, git does directories the same way as elliott's-view-of-scapegoat
< 1292463480 0 :Iwnda0!~nomad@pool-72-79-134-68.sctnpa.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292463518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, and stores the root directory hash with a patch
< 1292463521 0 :Iwnda0!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you'll find that the universe pretty much covers everything.
< 1292463611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    *
< 1292463611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      I can go back in time and make a different commit instead
< 1292463611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		
< 1292463611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    *
< 1292463611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      Commits not reachable from any head are eventually discarded
< 1292463611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :          o
< 1292463613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :            Typically after 90 days or so
< 1292463617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so it has anonymous commits too ...
< 1292463620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like scapegoat!
< 1292463661 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iwnda0: SHUT UP WOMAN GET ON MY HORSE
< 1292463661 0 :Iwnda0!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at my horse, my horse is amazing.
< 1292463675 0 :Iwnda0!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally.
< 1292463688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iwnda0: I refuse to entertain your notions.
< 1292463703 0 :Iwnda0!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got the notion
< 1292463706 0 :Iwnda0!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont rock the boat baby
< 1292463729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so git just stores the entire current commit's tree ...
< 1292463756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://perl.plover.com/classes/git/samples/slide039.html "Look! It's like darcs but with an inferior UI!"
< 1292463795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TODO: read http://www.newartisans.com/2008/04/git-from-the-bottom-up.html
< 1292463843 0 :Iwnda0!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this the chat of intellectual geeks
< 1292463850 0 :Iwnda0!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's what im looking for
< 1292463882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iwnda0: it's for esoteric programming languages.
< 1292463890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, yes, it's rarely on-topic.
< 1292463893 0 :Iwnda0!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cool thats close
< 1292463953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iwnda0: If I start ranting about something this goat that it's me singlehandedly destroying my inner concept of version control systems through overthinking.
< 1292463960 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iwnda0: And if you read the topic message, they always change it, except the log URL should stay there. You can read the log if you want to.
< 1292463981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They aaalways change it :P
< 1292463985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They being the gods, obviously.
< 1292464009 0 :Ilari!~user@a88-112-56-215.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292464011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iwnda0: Additionally, EgoBot, HackEgo and fungot are absolutely not bots and acting as if they are will hurt their feelings.
< 1292464012 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well yeah... loop through the sequence, it gives bizarre results.... but it seems what he actually checks
< 1292464023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also http://esolangs.org/ since nobody reads the ChanServ message.)
< 1292464026 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually anyone can, I am the last guy to change the topic message.
< 1292464040 0 :Iwnda0!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bots with receptors
< 1292464074 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iwnda0: Look at the wiki if you are interested with esoteric programming.
< 1292464112 0 :Iwnda0!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok thanks for all of that
< 1292464117 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what elliott thinks of Ur/Web

< 1292464136 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO, single-purpose languages scare me a bit, but it looks interesting. But magic syntax scares me
< 1292464148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's an interesting research topic by an expert and innovator in the field, the web part is totally irrelevant, and if you fall in love with it I will tear your heart out and smash it to pieces.
< 1292464155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Magic syntax"? What?
< 1292464163 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1292464167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not "magic".
< 1292464188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone trying to understand Ur/Web without a solid background in programming language design and type theory is really going to get nothing out of the exercise.
< 1292464393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1292464456 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: *disappears in a puff of orange smoke*
< 1292464503 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Is it single-purpose?
< 1292464540 0 :Iwnda0!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292464545 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how well Ur works as a standalone language
< 1292464586 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ur/Web?
< 1292464774 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.impredicative.com/ur/
< 1292464803 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. What I do know is I have made a few programming languages meant for a single-purpose but can do other things as well due to turing-complete. I don't know if Ur/Web can make command-line programs either.
< 1292465034 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does not look as clean as haskell
< 1292465056 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how to help make a few things with TAVSYS standard libraries?
< 1292465438 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Ur seems ugly compared to haskell
< 1292465458 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ILoveEval
< 1292465598 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION assassinates ILoveEval for the good of security

< 1292465652 0 :ILoveEval!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I LURRRRVE EVAL
< 1292465702 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you love it eval(some_user_entered_supposed_number) much?
< 1292466099 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292466231 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292466298 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292466498 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292467193 0 :zeotrope!~a@unaffiliated/zeotrope JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292467281 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :DDDD
< 1292467301 0 :DDDD!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tswett
< 1292467473 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O'
< 1292467720 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292467906 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1292468422 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your C is terrible.
< 1292468432 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What say you, pikhq?
< 1292468447 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are not C's, they're D's
< 1292468482 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah.
< 1292468593 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sshc: Ùńĩçôđë!
< 1292468607 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The last good thing written in C was Chopin's Concerto 3
< 1292468925 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION salivates

< 1292468938 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is you guisers favorite distro?
< 1292468988 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292469233 0 :ILoveEval!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your C is terrible because it has no eval.
< 1292469253 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292469304 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've recieved numurous affirmative PMs from augur
< 1292469309 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is quite clear.
< 1292469314 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sshc: s/^.*$/"\&"/
< 1292469333 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, he's here now
< 1292469349 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've said nothing
< 1292469351 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"&"
< 1292469369 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\& means the entire matched string
< 1292469378 0 :ILoveEval!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Ping?
< 1292469381 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C has been used for plenty eval.
< 1292469386 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Ping!
< 1292469389 0 :ILoveEval!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnybodyElseWhoMightWantToProofreadAPaper: Ping?
< 1292469397 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C no eval
< 1292469417 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ping!
< 1292469428 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Not with less sophisticated regex transmissions
< 1292469453 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was quite convenient to hide our quite excellent strategy from augur, no?
< 1292469477 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D:
< 1292469477 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has no idea who sshc is talking to

< 1292469484 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who are you
< 1292469524 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why... I am sshc.
< 1292469531 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most well known IRC user of this channel, at the moment.
< 1292469551 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I...am rather green.
< 1292469556 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's who I am.
< 1292469612 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1292469613 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOLY SHIT SOMEBODY ACTUALLY JOINED ##############################################
< 1292469620 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION feels lucky for guessing right

< 1292469621 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i have no idea what you're on about
< 1292469623 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bai nao
< 1292469628 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, later dude!
< 1292469646 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what bai nao means in chinese

< 1292469876 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1292469919 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292469924 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292469994 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://askville.amazon.com/eversion-video-game-children-play-adult/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=32693562
< 1292469997 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION facepalns

< 1292470000 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :palms too
< 1292473260 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I should not be on IRC tomorrow. If I am, feel free to ban me for the duration. Duration ends ... should really end Saturday, I guess, not Friday
< 1292473278 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what if I start feeling depressedly lonely again?
< 1292473279 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: is that an actual question? :O
< 1292473347 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I drained myself of happiness this past Thanksgiving
< 1292473354 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1292473407 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From Tuesday to Saturday during that break, I was giddy. Stuff happened Saturday, and I wasn't the same, even after she told me to forget about it
< 1292473437 0 :DrPhillate!~tehjamez@CPE00222d66da07-CM00222d66da03.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292473570 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This past Tuesday, a friend of mine was telling me something that happened on the road that day
< 1292473598 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep thinking that if she had been paying less attention, she might have died
< 1292473606 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I don't know the details, maybe I'm mistaken
< 1292473651 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been driving and been in a situation where myself and one other driver needed to be alert or bad things might have happened
< 1292473676 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a truck ahead of me made a sudden stop and I was forced to make an emergency lane change; if the guy in the other lane hadn't slowed back things would have been ugly
< 1292473781 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I be worried that she listens to audiobooks in the car?
< 1292473786 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, that's scary
< 1292473802 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Very.
< 1292473851 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION suddenly wonders what thing "Very" was in response to

< 1292474099 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the line immediately above it?
< 1292474178 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.>
< 1292474194 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I don't want to drive
< 1292474336 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal
< 1292474883 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925109240.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292475461 0 :DrPhillate!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Room42
< 1292475721 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... APNIC has 1.06 /8s left before crossing 2x/8 threshold...
< 1292475734 0 :Room42!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Elephantitus
< 1292475828 0 :Elephantitus!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :VerticalSmile
< 1292476044 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 575 872 addresses (63.0% of /8) allocated this calender month...
< 1292476116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S THE FINAL COUNTDOOOOWN
< 1292476153 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About 17.8M addresses left to the threshold...
< 1292476406 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Average allocation rate would be 700k addresses per day... At that rate 17.8M addresses would be gone in less than 4 weeks (mid-January that is)...
< 1292476619 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, Sam Hughes's rant about One Chance comes to mind...
< 1292476678 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also looks like IPv6 routing is seriously borked for me... :-/
< 1292476725 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ftp.fi.debian.org is reachable, ftp.se.debian.org isn't, as isn't Freenode IRC servers...
< 1292476818 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Traceroute6 isn't very helpful...
< 1292476845 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(besides pointing out that packets do reach the gateway).
< 1292476849 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the public starts pressuring ISPs sooner, say now instead of in 4 weeks, will there be 4 weeks less of pain?
< 1292476992 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Internet Corporation for Assigned IP address ICANNâ's experts warned that the existing IPv4 address will run out next January."...
< 1292477064 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sooner we raise a fuss, the sooner ISPs feel pressure, and... it's at least a little help. Although atually, it could backfire if the day comes around and the world doesn't end, which it won't
< 1292477353 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reminds me of some long lived threads on ISP forums about IPv6: The general theme is: 2005: "We have IPv6 in production use in our core network". Winter 2009: "When are customers going to get IPv6?", "It is planned, no timetable to annouce yet.". Repeat for each season.
< 1292477360 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1292477511 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, Winter 2009, Spring 2009, Summer 2009, Fall 2009, Winter 2010, Spring 2010, Summer 2010, Fall 2010...
< 1292477525 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... The same Q&A pair...
< 1292477990 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292478172 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, is http://pastie.org/private/fuqe7yxf4gztpaofh0xbmg reasonably accurate?
< 1292478288 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's not going to the press. Just my Facebook friends)
< 1292478348 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :famous last words
< 1292478355 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it" meaning IANA depletion?
< 1292478384 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I titled it "The Internet is Full"
< 1292478388 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a bit hyperbolic?
< 1292478389 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1292478417 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, RIRs still have addresses, right?
< 1292478556 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, how can I fix for accuracy?
< 1292478581 0 :VerticalSmile!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tehjamezs
< 1292478582 0 :tehjamezs!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tehjamez
< 1292478770 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of "it" in the January sentence, should I say "a major milestone"?
< 1292478834 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tentatively pokes Ilari 

< 1292478924 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION puts a clarifying thing in parentheses

< 1292478951 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ome estimates are predicting it (well, a major milestone showing that it's going to happen soon) to happen in January"
< 1292478954 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit awkward
< 1292478956 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shrugs

< 1292479173 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really hope 700k a day isn't going to be long time trend...
< 1292479205 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After the RIRs are depleted, it won't be.
< 1292479268 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it would drain APNIC enough to make it allocate about 2 weeks ahead of (pessimistic) model predictions, but the bigger problem is that it would drain APNIC completely months before even the most pessimistic estimates so far...
< 1292479309 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's no telling what happens once IANA depletion is announced...
< 1292479365 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should make sure that IANA depletion makes the news. And not just the geek news
< 1292479374 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should get people angry at the ISPs
< 1292479468 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, APNIC, is that asia?
< 1292479557 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes.
< 1292479640 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problems with native IPv6: 1) Access networks usually can't carry it. 2) modems usually don't support it. Tunneled IPv6: Poor software support.
< 1292479687 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, if you control the CPE, you could upgrade it to terminate the tunnel, but usually that's not the case.
< 1292479697 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another problem with tunneled IPv6: Most users have no idea how to set such a thing up
< 1292479701 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, hm... what will happens to phones?
< 1292479711 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The IPv6-only Internet would be inaccessible to them
< 1292479720 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, it is 10 easy steps (and 5 hard)!
< 1292479736 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the hard ones are convincing sixxs)
< 1292479746 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, and getting every clueless Internet user to do those steps?
< 1292479748 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sixxs?
< 1292479758 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, SixXS yes
< 1292479791 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl university
< 1292479940 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, with DHCP and access to logically same network segment, one could theoretically provode IPv6 access in automated fashion. But that "same network segment" is kinda tall order.
< 1292479983 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait
< 1292479994 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :End-user hardware tends not to support IPv6?
< 1292480008 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um... does this mean we're completely fucked?
< 1292480052 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, wait for user to send DHCP request. And in return, send back DHCP response and IPv6 router advertaisment.
< 1292480104 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DHCP configures IPv4 + nameservers, the RA configures the IPv6 layer 3...
< 1292480204 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION needs to sleep soo

< 1292480206 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n
< 1292480288 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Arp table has entry for default gateway that does not correspond to any known MAC of the DSL modem...
< 1292480340 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would mean some telco equipment is on the same segment, or at least in bridged segment...
< 1292480380 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and then there is some bad software that will crash if it receives a RA...
< 1292480399 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Very, very little end-user hardware supports IPv6, yes.
< 1292480413 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because the only people more short-sighted than ISPs are electronics manufacturers.
< 1292480426 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we don't have rational, informed actors.
< 1292480627 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that settles it.
< 1292480656 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Humanity is going to be either wiped out or delt a severe blow due to Global Warming
< 1292480684 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IPv4 depletion, given enough time, is FAR simpler to solve
< 1292480696 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given everyone working together
< 1292480705 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can't do that much...
< 1292480902 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3G network standards have supported an IPv4/IPv6 mixture since 2004 (3GPP R5); the 3GPP address autoconfiguration does IPv6 assignments (spec'd to provide a /64 for each mobile device, for personal-area-network brouhaha); I don't know about phones except that Symbian has done IPv6 since version 7.0s (2003).
< 1292480921 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's in theory; I don't know how well that will go in practice, and whether anyone's actually tried that stuff out.)
< 1292481519 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night all
< 1292481578 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292482200 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, Android phones should at least be trivially upgradable to IPv6.
< 1292482222 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: "should". You never know what some ignorant moron has done to it.)
< 1292485191 0 :ILoveEval!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor
< 1292486322 0 :nopseudoidea!~nopseudoi@85-168-235-235.rev.numericable.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292486386 0 :nopseudoidea!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1292486399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1292486400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292486786 0 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.rh.rit.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292486828 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone has seen me sign on but I'm saying something to let you know I'm not just lurking.
< 1292486856 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek, the evil car is back
< 1292486919 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly you are the first to say anything for 1 hour 17 minutes
< 1292486973 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1292489149 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: And I didn't notice you said anything for a while, either. I'm a great chatter.
< 1292489168 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay.  sadly i'm about to leave soon.
< 1292489172 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And sadly I must retire too.
< 1292489185 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well bye then
< 1292489187 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being sick and having to get up for class in four hours...
< 1292489190 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...sigh.
< 1292489193 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, later.
< 1292489195 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Blah.
< 1292489988 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1292491019 0 :tehjamez!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tehjamezZzZz
< 1292492219 0 :atrapado!~rodrigo@193.144.79.241 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292492733 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1292492944 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor has pingeth me
< 1292492953 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes gregor?
< 1292493007 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i have the write-up on document classification now wee
< 1292493094 0 :Ilari_!~user@2002:5870:38d7:1:20e:a6ff:fe6f:2288 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292493174 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Changing server
< 1292493221 0 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:38d7::1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292493243 0 :Ilari_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Ilari_antrcomp
< 1292494432 0 :Ilari_!~user@2002:5870:38d7:1:20e:a6ff:fe6f:2288 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292494507 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1292494509 0 :Ilari_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Ilari_antrcomp
< 1292497051 0 :MigoMipo!~John@62.119.155.253 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292497536 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292498822 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292498855 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1292499195 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292499224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:03:54  it does not look as clean as haskell
< 1292499225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:10:38  Sgeo: Ur seems ugly compared to haskell
< 1292499238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: please STFU, it is more powerful than haskell
< 1292499242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it contains new type-system research
< 1292499255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not some random language
< 1292499282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:16:29  AnybodyElseWhoMightWantToProofreadAPaper: Ping?
< 1292499286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Shure
< 1292499628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:20:49  If the public starts pressuring ISPs sooner, say now instead of in 4 weeks, will there be 4 weeks less of pain?
< 1292499634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people have been pressuring ISPs for 10 years.
< 1292499669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:46:24  I titled it "The Internet is Full"
< 1292499669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:46:28  Maybe a bit hyperbolic?
< 1292499671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU DON'T SAY
< 1292499701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:42:52  Ilari, is http://pastie.org/private/fuqe7yxf4gztpaofh0xbmg reasonably accurate?
< 1292499714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what hope do we have for solving climate change? none without bioengineering, which won't happen because of politics! enjoy!
< 1292500251 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: An ideal world is left as an exercise to the reader
< 1292500290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2010/08/18/212-lust-old-phone-numbers-are-new-thing-in-tech-scene/ this is the stupidest thing ever i can't even comprehend
< 1292500447 0 :Leonidas_!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292500483 0 :Leonidas_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Leonidas
< 1292500696 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, bioengineering won't happen because it isn't as good as it is portrayed as. What really prevents action on climate change is economics...
< 1292500699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:23:47  Well, that settles it.
< 1292500699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:24:16  Humanity is going to be either wiped out or delt a severe blow due to Global Warming
< 1292500699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:24:44  IPv4 depletion, given enough time, is FAR simpler to solve
< 1292500699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:24:56  Given everyone working together
< 1292500699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:25:05  We can't do that much...
< 1292500708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are so naïve it is hilarious.
< 1292500735 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Converging catastrophes... Global Warming is just one of those...
< 1292500830 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292500858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Obviously we will all die.
< 1292500916 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, humankind getting dealt serious blow is much more likely than full wipeout.
< 1292500927 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, inevitable)
< 1292500958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I disagree about its inevitability.
< 1292501079 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It won't be global warming that is going to deal the main blow (just additional one).
< 1292501204 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the main blow will come from IPv4 depletion.
< 1292501220 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats fizzie -----###

< 1292501301 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like depletion of natural resources.
< 1292501317 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IPv4 addresses don't count as natural resources) :->
< 1292501345 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292501382 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION compresses fizzie's filesystem with md5sum

< 1292501412 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phosphorus looks like a big one... we're going to have to start recycling human sewage again
< 1292501990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: let's hope the arsenic bacteria don't take over :D
< 1292502010 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, that seems to have been shoddy science anyway
< 1292502078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "Uh oh, Minecraft update."
< 1292502082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: shush :)
< 1292502122 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The client wasn't updated, btw, that was a side-effect of copying the files around. The updater thought they were new."
< 1292502126 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Notch twitter feed.)
< 1292502129 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arsenic is immensely rarer than phosphorus anyway
< 1292502144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The client wasn't updated, btw, that was a side-effect of copying the files around. The updater thought they were new."
< 1292502229 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292502265 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo "The client wasn't updated, btw, that was a side-effect of copying the files around. The updater thought they were new."
< 1292502265 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The client wasn't updated, btw, that was a side-effect of copying the files around. The updater thought they were new." "The client wasn't updated, btw, that was a side-effect of copying the files around. T ...
< 1292502440 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, in fact, exactly what made me bring the 'got here.
< 1292502460 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo "\"The client wasn't updated, btw, that was a side-effect of copying the files around. The updater thought they were new.\""
< 1292502481 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"\"The client wasn't updated, btw, that was a side-effect of copying the files around. The updater thought they were new.\""
< 1292502487 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh damn
< 1292502487 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAIL
< 1292502498 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry :(
< 1292502509 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, retweeting in irc is fun
< 1292502569 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1292502640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : That is, in fact, exactly what made me bring the 'got here.
< 1292502644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, me pinging you?
< 1292502668 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, what oerjan did.
< 1292502704 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to do the whole "there's an echo here", but noticed the lack of 'got.
< 1292502737 0 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-130-244.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292502816 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I wonder if the updater compares the web-version timestamp and the local minecraft.jar timestamp, and if so, whether you could disable auto-updating by adding a "touch ~/.minecraft/bin/minecraft.jar" into your minecraft startup script.
< 1292502942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Maybe it hashes the server pathname too for NO GOOD REASON./
< 1292502953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Wait, maybe "moving things around" meant moving things around in ~/.minecraft.
< 1292502954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Creepy.
< 1292502964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't look like it :P
< 1292502970 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it probably just looks at the value in ~/.minecraft/bin/version, which looks suspiciously like a time_t *1000.
< 1292503005 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe you can disable auto-updating by putting a ridickulously large number in.
< 1292503022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hey, look at Notch's ingenious solution to the problem "lastServer:hostname:port discards the port value because of the separator": "lastServer:aNNN.org_MMMMM"
< 1292503026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For appropriate Ns and Ms.)
< 1292503040 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I noticed.
< 1292503047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the equivalent of "key, value = line.split(':', 1)" was just TOO HARD.
< 1292503081 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292503099 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats FireFly -----###

< 1292503115 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::<
< 1292503116 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be String[] key_value = line.split(":", 2);
< 1292503122 0 :MigoMipo!~John@62.119.155.253 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292503160 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it's one of the examples in the String.split(String regex, int limit) documentation.
< 1292503185 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The string "boo:and:foo", for example, yields -- [regex :, limit 2:] { "boo", "and:foo" }"
< 1292503195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: FireFly has developed crushing depression due to your constant swattling.
< 1292503201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: bahahaha
< 1292503204 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah
< 1292503218 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm
< 1292503229 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well flies are supposed to live shitty lives
< 1292503240 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least _ is a non-DNS-friendly replacement character, compared to something like "q".
< 1292503259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes but he's a firefly, he already has a recent, awful, overplayed pop song involving him, give him a break
< 1292503260 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so is your mom, oerjan :|
< 1292503279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DING DING DING someone did the your mom joke on one of the incorrect targets
< 1292503284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prepare for canned response
< 1292503288 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ow
< 1292503301 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds.. bad
< 1292503305 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY MOM IS DEAD YOU INSENSITIVE CLOD
< 1292503313 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: close enough?
< 1292503319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: should do
< 1292503335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I would have gone for "MY MOTHER WAS KILLED BY YOUR KIND", but that is acceptable
< 1292503357 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i ... don't recall any flies being involved.
< 1292503412 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the Semantic Web, FireFly's client would have seen the mom-dead metadata and made a yes/no confirmation query before sending the comment.
< 1292503430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: surely it would be the mother metadata's dead property
< 1292503434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: isn't this conversation SO COMFORTABLE
< 1292503440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway he's a firefly, not a fly :P
< 1292503448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe he's a Fire Fly, like a fly on fire or something
< 1292503459 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, it would be in the Ontology(tm) somewhere, I just simplified.
< 1292503483 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being a fly on fire would make the swatting pretty pointless, though
< 1292503488 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably some sort of a RDF graph.
< 1292503565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: well oerjan is just that cruel
< 1292503574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't think he's speaking to me any more :D
< 1292503654 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what
< 1292503744 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He's so nice, he wouldn't hurt an on-fire fly", as the saying goes.
< 1292503758 0 :nopseudoidea!~nopseudoi@85-168-235-235.rev.numericable.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292503819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wut
< 1292503856 0 :nopseudoidea!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1292504039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so how's the ultimately-meaningless patch theory going :D
< 1292504404 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1292504563 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-existingly
< 1292505310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: flower
< 1292505311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s
< 1292505316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(multiple/plural)
< 1292506076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harm Considered Harmful
< 1292506137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://74.125.155.132/scholar?q=cache:Dk-wWK6NAaIJ:scholar.google.com/+hello+world+considered+harmful&hl=en&as_sdt=40000000000
< 1292506142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WORST. PAPER. EVAR!
< 1292506437 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um
< 1292506438 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite
< 1292506452 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try this one  http://journalofcosmology.com/Mars144.html
< 1292506535 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are probably a lot worse papers than those...
< 1292506755 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i know, but that was one i was already looking at that seemed at least a little bit worse
< 1292506779 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, go go gadget quick reply counterexample reflex!
< 1292507266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : try this one  http://journalofcosmology.com/Mars144.html
< 1292507267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that's most awesome
< 1292507324 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose.  but it's amusing that it is in journal of cosmology, clearly being an analysis of human sexual relations
< 1292507336 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not what i usually think of as cosmology
< 1292507396 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought the message of the paper you linked was dead-on though.  A lot of people teach OO very wrong.
< 1292507435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: thinking that paper and its "solution" are reasonable are a sign of brain damage.
< 1292507465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only one who truly believes OO is the One True Solution to everything would mangle and overcomplicate Hello-fucking-world to fit their disastrous worldview.
< 1292507469 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't say the solution was reasonable
< 1292507475 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said the message is dead-on
< 1292507475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is a
< 1292507486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the message includes the solution
< 1292507502 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wholeheartedly disagree with your statement
< 1292507522 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a question of pedagogy techniques, not whether or not OO is the One True Solution
< 1292507543 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would rather see hello world not used at all, however
< 1292507566 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actually jump right into a real problem that actually shows the purpose of OO
< 1292507592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: here's an idea, maybe we shouldn't teach possibly the worst paradigm in recent history
< 1292507597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(original OO I can accept, Java I cannot)
< 1292507617 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree. Smalltalk is better suited for teaching OO.
< 1292507635 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just there aren't any truly non-shitty implementations of Smalltalk
< 1292507698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: "I invented the term Object-Oriented, and I can tell you I did not have C++ in mind. Nor Smalltalk." --Alan Kay, last sentenced paraphrased because I can't find a source actually including that bit
< 1292507708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway smalltalk has perfectly good implementations
< 1292507719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Squeak's UI is a bit stupid but it has the Smalltalk-80 lineage.
< 1292507731 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :squeak is pretty shitty
< 1292507735 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least
< 1292507739 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was, the last time i used it
< 1292507750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: from what do you derive that conclusion
< 1292507782 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you need to tell me where i can find a non-shitty smalltalk?
< 1292507791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: you fail at english
< 1292507797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: from what do you derive the conclusion that squeak is pretty shitty
< 1292507806 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292507834 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the problems i had with the system.  i'd rather have one that didn't act like a VM, really.
< 1292507840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it is not a VM.
< 1292507852 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it acts like an OS being run in a VM
< 1292507868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Smalltalk-80 ran on the bare metal; Squeak is directly based on it, runs under an existing kernel and graphics layer because of portability. it also provides access to the filesystem as a convenience.
< 1292507870 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is understandable considering smalltalk's origins
< 1292507879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is like saying "I wish Linux didn't act like a VM, really."
< 1292507889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk's power is /nothing/ and worthless without the integrated environment.
< 1292507892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU Smalltalk is a joke.
< 1292507900 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< quintopia> which is understandable considering smalltalk's origins
< 1292507907 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i indicated i get all that
< 1292507922 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i disagree that you need it to be implemented like /that/
< 1292507930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feel free to disagree, but you're wrong.
< 1292507944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact the adherence to the shitty Unix-alike OSes we all run on is why every development environment more or less completely sucks.
< 1292507945 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel free to disagree, but you're wrong
< 1292507957 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that i can agree with
< 1292507958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thankfully Emacs is a slightly nicer environment, and is widely accepted -- but --
< 1292507959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only slightly.
< 1292507971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So would you prefer it if Smalltalk booted on the bare metal?
< 1292507981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be even less integrated with your OS, and less portable too.
< 1292507990 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, i would like a smalltalk that integrates nicely into /other/ tools.  i don't want it running on the bare metal.
< 1292508000 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want the language itself
< 1292508015 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if i had another computer
< 1292508018 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was smalltalk based
< 1292508022 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would be happy with it
< 1292508027 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i would be happy with a lisp machine
< 1292508036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: ok, so press fullscreen in a smalltalk window. :p
< 1292508036 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the purposes of the /computer i have/
< 1292508051 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...they window already fills the screen :P
< 1292508064 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the abstraction there is way too leaky
< 1292508068 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so leaky it is annoying
< 1292508078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would switch to squeak if it booted on the bare metal and had drivers, probably.
< 1292508086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i could make the UI less irritating.
< 1292508112 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might as well...not for everything of course, just for fun, and only if i had another computer to use it on
< 1292508156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, i'd just need a browser. :p
< 1292508180 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i thought alan kay had a heavy hand in designing smalltalk
< 1292508182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292508185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: precisely.
< 1292508190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he invented it.
< 1292508193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but smalltalk is broken too.
< 1292508205 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i'm wondering where that quote comes from
< 1292508214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a talk he did; the bit without smalltalk is widely quoted.
< 1292508218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ironically.
< 1292508238 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how does he think smalltalk is not OO?
< 1292508240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: one of smalltalk's main problems is that it has inheritance, of course.
< 1292508264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OO has always been about message-passing from the start, not classes, not inheritance, message-passing, and anything that disrupts that isn't OO
< 1292508267 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the proper way to do templating/code reuse in OO?
< 1292508278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: composition
< 1292508282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/aggregation
< 1292508293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combine components to produce bigger components.
< 1292508325 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the proper way to do shared interfaces/interchangeable types?
< 1292508356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: you're going to have to state that in terms of what you're trying to accomplish, not OO buzzwords, for me to give a coherent answer. :)
< 1292508559 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292508565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1292508624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1292508645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can i ask a scapegoat-related question?
< 1292508699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just did
< 1292508702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but feel free to ask a different one
< 1292508719 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292508721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(semantic argument: are scapegoat-related-question-related questions scapegoat-related questions?)
< 1292508740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: only if you program Pelr
< 1292508741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Perl
< 1292508744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((1, 2), 3) = (1,2,3)
< 1292508745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-)
< 1292508784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because array constants embed into other array constants by definition
< 1292508796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what the , operator does when given an array and scalar, or two arrays, as arguments in list contexts
< 1292508832 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i mean, you can't always have your code going around asking what kind of object it has been passed and whether it accepts those messages, but you may want to have an entire class of objects that believe differently yet are guaranteed to have the same messages available
< 1292508833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292508841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, i've forgotten the question
< 1292508851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you can't always have your code going around asking what kind of object it has been passed and whether it accepts those messages," erm why would code ever do this quintopia
< 1292508855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a smell to me
< 1292508858 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i can't be here every second of the day
< 1292508871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: ?
< 1292508873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was talking to ais523
< 1292508874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: isn't that what an interface is, in the OO sense?
< 1292508875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until i quoted you
< 1292508883 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292508891 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's what i'm trying to describe yes
< 1292508891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I had a new esolang idea last night
< 1292508903 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was basically, "make a cross between ML and Prolog"
< 1292508920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is sufficiently crazy to need no further complications to be eso, but I'd probably add some anyway
< 1292508957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can tell I had to do a project in OCaml over the last couple of days, it's what got me thinking along those lines...)
< 1292508962 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what are your thoughts on contracts, in the eiffel sense?
< 1292509026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I want some editor advice; what's the fastest way to, given a huge number of files, look at them all and edit a small subset based on what they look like?
< 1292509040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the moment I'm scrolling through them in less and using vi for any edits I need to make
< 1292509042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: i mean, you can't always have your code going around asking what kind of object it has been passed and whether it accepts those messages, but you may want to have an entire class of objects that believe differently yet are guaranteed to have the same messages available
< 1292509045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you answer my question?
< 1292509061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would code ever be "going around asking what kind of object it has been passed and whether it accepts those messages"
< 1292509069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmm, I want some editor advice; what's the fastest way to, given a huge number of files, look at them all and edit a small subset based on what they look like?
< 1292509070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: grep?
< 1292509097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it 's a situation that isn't really suited for grep
< 1292509103 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if it didn't have the ability to determine what messages an object had available by apriori knowledge like "it implements this interface" or "it inherits from that class"
< 1292509109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to look at a bunch of files submitted by students and fix the ones that are malformed
< 1292509115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they come up with really creative ways to do malformed
< 1292509130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: if you're passed an object as a parameter, then you use it according to some interface
< 1292509132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the problem?
< 1292509155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if some parameter is a number, you can do x*2. if it's a string, you can do x length. if it's a random-access container of some sort, you can do x at(3) or whatever.
< 1292509159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, vi keeps annoying me with its nonintuitive choices of units of measurement
< 1292509159 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: when you want to ensure that the wrong object doesn't get passed crashing your entire program
< 1292509166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. d2j deletes three lines, who'd have guessed?
< 1292509179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: directional keys
< 1292509188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: j is down 1 line
< 1292509190 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it'd be nice to be able to guarantee this things at compile time, and it'd be nice to be able to compile)
< 1292509191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, j moves a line downwards
< 1292509197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? no
< 1292509199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so d2j would delete two lines downwards, logically
< 1292509218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps
< 1292509222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: don't you mean d2d?
< 1292509235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: ok, well, we're talking about where smalltalk went wrong here
< 1292509240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, perhaps, but d to mean line doesn't really make sense
< 1292509240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: and duck typing is a major part of smalltalk
< 1292509244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i don't see the relevance at all
< 1292509252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep using vim like it would be meant to work, rather than like it actually works
< 1292509268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I'm assuming it sticks to a really rigid philosophy which is only an approximation of the one it's actually based on
< 1292509270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: use traditional-vi, see what it does :p
< 1292509305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also understand why vi doesn't do major modes, after using it for a while
< 1292509316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you really need to memorise things like what its definition of a word is to use it efficiently
< 1292509324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if that kept changing on you, it wouldn't really help
< 1292509394 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: fine.  so what are your thoughts on contracts, then?
< 1292509404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: completely unrelated?
< 1292509419 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1292509433 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether they are a valuable idea in OO language design
< 1292509465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i'm uninterested in OO language design
< 1292509482 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.  you don't act like it.  you can understand my thinking you are.
< 1292509492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: well, i know what smalltalk did wrong.
< 1292509496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't think OO is the way forward.
< 1292509506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I also have a vaguely related question: elliott and/or quintopia, what are your opinions on Objective C (purely as a language, ignoring things like userbase, etc)
< 1292509517 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no opinion
< 1292509519 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta go
< 1292509531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough
< 1292509542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: all the safety of C with all the speed of Smalltalk! at least the Smalltalk part's good.
< 1292509544 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292509549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ish.
< 1292509560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spent ages reading Apple's guidelines about Objective C memory management; they were, surprisingly, exactly the same as Perl uses internally
< 1292509616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *perl, surely
< 1292509617 0 :zeotrope!~a@unaffiliated/zeotrope JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292509625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, yes
< 1292509633 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have said perl(1)
< 1292509646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically refcounting with a strong convention for when you change the reference count
< 1292509651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nah, it's "only perl can parse Perl", not "only perl(1) can parse Perl"
< 1292509670 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the ability for the reference count to go below 1 without freeing the object, as long as it comes back up "soon enough"
< 1292509736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and the ability for the reference count to go below 1 without freeing the object, as long as it comes back up "soon enough"
< 1292509738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's insane.
< 1292509906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's useful, though; the idea is that you always free an object before returning it from a function
< 1292509923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the function you returned it to allocates it again if it wants it to stick around
< 1292509935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that sounds brittle :)
< 1292509950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a defined place where everything with a refcount of 0 gets freed at once
< 1292509963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's between statements in Perl, or each iteration of the event loop in Cocoa
< 1292510022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292510050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not brittle, but only works if you understand how it's meant to work
< 1292510105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: brittle from a human point of view, i mean
< 1292510130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps
< 1292510139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory, you should be able to do it statically
< 1292510652 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292510675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wrt scapegoat, I think I'm going to start hacking up a "test" implementation in Haskell or C, just to see "how it works" and catch any potential major problems before taking all the effort to start a complicated, optimised, robust implementation
< 1292510676 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292510681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also because i'm lazy, but want something to code
< 1292510732 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you mean "optomized"?
< 1292510748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*OPTOMIZED(TM).
< 1292510779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, highly recommended reading: http://perl.plover.com/yak/git/ -- turns out git has a lot of *my* ideas :P
< 1292510819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: e.g., immutable hash-based indexing, maintaining directories the same way as files, and anonymous commits newer than the head (automatically removed after 90 days, apparently; not sure whether it's on next git invocation or "git gc" or whatever)
< 1292510830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, it still lacks the Scapegoat Patch Format of Wonderment
< 1292510934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't you know git had immutable hash-based indexing?
< 1292510978 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1292510985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, yes
< 1292510992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I just didn't realise that it combined it with other parts of my design
< 1292511024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it seems that about half of my scapegoat ideas are basically unintentional adaptions of git to the scapegoat model :P
< 1292511029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, incidentally, today as an experiment I deleted all my cookies and set Firefox to prompt before accepting them
< 1292511032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wtf spellchecker, adaptions is a word)
< 1292511039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: lynx does that by default, it's intensely irritating
< 1292511048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's... surprisingly less irritating than I thought it would be
< 1292511051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292511058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: tried google yet?
< 1292511061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because it gives me the optoin to whitelist or blacklist domains the first time it happens
< 1292511062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get like 50 cookie requests
< 1292511066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had them blacklisted already
< 1292511070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292511077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm only getting one question per page request
< 1292511090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I accept any cookies from a domain, I'm probably going to want to accept all of them, after all
< 1292511096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you'd like this, if it were for Firefox: https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/jeoacafpbcihiomhlakheieifhpjdfeo
< 1292511114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: completely anonymises google, disables tracking by digg, facebook, google, twitter, yahoo
< 1292511158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, yes, it seems a little complex
< 1292511167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less like what I'm doing except with defaults
< 1292511182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for a second there, you were zzo38
< 1292511195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"That thing that does exactly what I want to do is too complex in my opinion, so I wrote my own."
< 1292511202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(zzo-ly english left to the reader)
< 1292511223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see with me i just write my own without justifying it :D
< 1292511266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cookies seem like javascript to me; most of the time they don't actually do anything useful for me so I may as well leave them off, and some of the time they're actively annoying
< 1292511296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the web is kind of inherently irritating :P
< 1292511381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup
< 1292511385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC's nicer in that respect
< 1292511401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, the web is kind-of hard to avoid nowadays if you use the Internet a lot
< 1292511694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you ever figure out how you're meant to use trackpads ergonomically, please tell me
< 1292511701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't figure out how to do it without holding your wrist up uncomfortably
< 1292511709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or using your thumb
< 1292511712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not very precise
< 1292511749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use my index finger, with my wrist below the trackpad on the table
< 1292511763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works quite well, except I have to use my other hand to click
< 1292511773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I'm doing something that can't be done with a simple tap on the touchpad
< 1292511786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how I play Enigma on this laptop, at least, and that needs quite a lot of precision
< 1292511789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wrist-on-table is very uncomfortable, and also you can't do that with it in your lap
< 1292511802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("you're not meant to put it on your lap!!!!" only if it's a stupidly overly hot machine)
< 1292511808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have enough coordination to use a trackpad while holding the laptop
< 1292511813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hold? i said lap
< 1292511816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in sitting, on your lap
< 1292511824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it'd be too low to reach
< 1292511843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of my laptop use at home is in bed, with me lying down and the laptop on top of the duvet
< 1292511862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wrist-on-duvet isn't a very stable position
< 1292511881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292511930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can use my other hand to help hold the laptop steady
< 1292511936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh
< 1292511941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the duvet is relatively stable because the rest of my body's holding it in place
< 1292511959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: personally, if i was designing a laptop, i'd make it longer, and somehow make the bit after the trackpad soft
< 1292511965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could use it as a wrist-rest
< 1292511994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and put the trackpad somewhere other than the centre, to stop it being knocked so easily?
< 1292512012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: possibly :P
< 1292512013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the alternative's to use something other than a trackpad
< 1292512019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just somehow detect the hand position on the laptop
< 1292512019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a good old-fashioned trackball
< 1292512022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and disable the trackpad accordingly
< 1292512025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ugh, i hate trackballs
< 1292512039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think I've used most of the common pointing devices in existence now
< 1292512044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used a logitech trackball mouse exclusively for over a month, and when I switched back to a mouse I was so much faster and more comfortable
< 1292512056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mouse, trackpad, trackball, touchscreen, MouseKeys
< 1292512061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that's interesting
< 1292512070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it a finger trackball, or a thumb trackball?
< 1292512089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used a thumb trackball by Microsoft, and it worked pretty well; it was much better than a mouse because the mice kept falling off the table and breaking
< 1292512136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thumb
< 1292512139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finger is probably nicer
< 1292512142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was thumb
< 1292512151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it was a well-regarded one, too
< 1292512162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this: http://www.bluesnews.com/miscimages/tmmarble150.gif
< 1292512163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I suppose it varies from person to person
< 1292512373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: scapegoat question: what's the algorithm to find @tip? I know how the Official Branch is defined
< 1292512383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how would scapegoat actually go about finding the right hash in a haystack of hashes?
< 1292512403 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's on my @tongue...
< 1292512418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats oerjan distractedly

< 1292512436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's one that would work but be inefficient: start off by taking all hashes from the branch you're trying to find @tip for; eliminate any commit/revert pairs (always necessary for anything sensible to work)
< 1292512448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, what?
< 1292512449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tip is a branch
< 1292512454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can multiple branches have a @tip?
< 1292512455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there are no conflicts, you're done; otherwise, remove the chronologically newest patch and check for conflicts, etc
< 1292512463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, @tip is defined with respect to a repo and/or a branch
< 1292512474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it would mean "the most current version of everything"
< 1292512480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is hilarious, but would take a while to calculate
< 1292512493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, fair enough
< 1292512501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the design in my head has no concept of repository, it seems
< 1292512506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a repository?
< 1292512540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically just a branch, but one defined by physical location
< 1292512545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm.
< 1292512556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, sure, that algo would work, but I was thinking something vaguely efficient :-)
< 1292512561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have millions of hashes that would be ... "fun"
< 1292512562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have a concept of push and pull, you have to have a concept of repository so you have something to push and pull into
< 1292512576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you have a concept of push and pull?
< 1292512583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do, in terms of whitelisting
< 1292512585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my model, pushing is just cp -R +scapegoat /another/+scapegoat
< 1292512592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pulling is just cp -R /another/+scapegoat +scapegoat
< 1292512601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, whitelisting
< 1292512611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in your model, then, your repo is the set of all hashes in the +scapegoat directory
< 1292512613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forming a branch
< 1292512633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fair enough; I was under the impression that +scapegoat's not having some hashes is purely an implementation detail
< 1292512641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but good point
< 1292512659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you were inconsistent on the point, I wasn't sure what your impression was
< 1292512669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps...
< 1292512671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just confused :)
< 1292512683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, so are there any more efficient algorithms than you can think of than O(hashes)? :p
< 1292512685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can do things as either "all hashes in +scapegoat are part of the repo" or "only whitelisted hashes in +scapegoat are part of the repo"
< 1292512711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: same algo, but optimised such that "check whether this set of hashes conflict" is efficient
< 1292512726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm
< 1292512734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, I'm thinking of caching whether the set of dependencies of a given hash are mutually consistent or not
< 1292512735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i can't think how to make that efficient without reading every single hash in th repo
< 1292512736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292512788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then, all you'd have to do is take toplevel hashes - those which nothing currently depends on - and take their most recent common ancestors, which would be quite a fast thing to do
< 1292512791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reconstruct from there
< 1292512806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the notion of a toplevel hash is pretty irrelevant as far as the VCS goes, but seems to be very useful for optimisation)
< 1292512950 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1292513414 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292513516 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ukresistance.co.uk/2010/12/by-public-demand-the-sega-toilet-game/
< 1292514014 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1292514703 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-3-253.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292515360 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925109240.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292515365 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292515680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, a forum I just logged into had two checkboxes for "remember me?", one marked yes and one marked no
< 1292515685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I checked both of them to see what would happen
< 1292515690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to see if I'm still logged in tomorrow
< 1292516879 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey ais
< 1292516884 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a question about monads
< 1292516930 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in this electronics/wires analogy for monads, what is >>= ?
< 1292517127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: connecting two blocks to each other, and also taking a second connection from the output of the first
< 1292517147 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where does the second connection go to?
< 1292517154 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think a drawing would help
< 1292517185 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but i'm sure it can be explained without one)
< 1292517205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, >>= is combined with a lambda
< 1292517209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, >>= \a.
< 1292517217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes to wherever that lambda's connected to
< 1292517218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, anywhere
< 1292517249 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand :(
< 1292517273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see... monads are just computations with a sidechannel
< 1292517286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, the computations might do nothing but interact with the sidechannel, as in IO () or whatever
< 1292517291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case, you just connect with >>
< 1292517298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, they might also produce a result, entirely independent of the monad
< 1292517298 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, you're using a metaphor for monads?
< 1292517310 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A questionable one, too.
< 1292517312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case, you need to put the result somewhere
< 1292517316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it doesn't extend forever
< 1292517321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I used it to teach cheater99 monads months ago
< 1292517326 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about the [], Maybe or Identity monads?
< 1292517342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, >>= is like >>, but it lets you specify somewhere to put the result of the computation that the monad wraps
< 1292517375 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know >> yet
< 1292517386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, >> is literally just connecting two blocks together
< 1292517391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you understand do notation?
< 1292517400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you just understand the concept but not any notation?
< 1292517411 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know the notations
< 1292517419 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, a >> b = a >>= const b.
< 1292517420 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may or may not understand the concepts behind them
< 1292517430 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know const, i'm a haskell n00b
< 1292517444 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :const == K in the SKI calculus.
< 1292517449 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've just recently learnt about the state monad, and i'm trying to figure out how that works with the idea you gave me ais523
< 1292517457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK
< 1292517470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see... imagine a simple computation which doesn't have a monad at all
< 1292517474 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1292517481 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has one input and one output
< 1292517484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let a = 2 + 2 in a * 3, let's say
< 1292517490 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, such things are probably a bad idea; the State monad is trivial enough that you can just look at the code itself.
< 1292517492 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for example, a box, with a "pin" on the left and a "pin" on the right
< 1292517499 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a DIP with just one pin on each side
< 1292517500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1292517501 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes?
< 1292517502 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1292517510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a monad is a sidechannel representing that
< 1292517518 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1292517521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sidechannel alongside that
< 1292517525 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok
< 1292517526 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1292517533 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a monad is a wire running above our box
< 1292517535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1292517538 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :our box is not connected to it yet
< 1292517540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292517546 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :------------------
< 1292517548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor need it be ever, depending on what we do with the monad
< 1292517551 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-|   |-
< 1292517555 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1292517557 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, now
< 1292517562 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does >>= do?
< 1292517577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, notationally speaking, we want to connect both the wire representing the monad, and the inputs and outputs of the boxes below
< 1292517594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's more than one thing to connect, and that's where the notation gets a little complex
< 1292517612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easier to start with >> first; that corresponds to ignoring the output pin of the computation itself, and just connecting the monad
< 1292517614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if I do a >> b
< 1292517616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the same as
< 1292517618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :------------------------
< 1292517619 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok go on
< 1292517632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-| a |-o  -| b |-
< 1292517637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the -o means I didn't connect it to anything
< 1292517650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :connecting the inputs of the boxes a and b is easy enough, as they're just functions and can take arguments
< 1292517650 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the monad in your drawing isn't connected
< 1292517656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the monad is, that line above is continuous
< 1292517662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the boxes below aren't connected to each other at all
< 1292517670 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait let's use some sort of online whiteboard maybe
< 1292517678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there such a thing?
< 1292517702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose I want to give inputs to a and b, still not connecting them to each other at all
< 1292517706 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got java?
< 1292517706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I do (a 6) >> (b 7)
< 1292517708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gives me
< 1292517710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :---------------------
< 1292517722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6-| a |-o   7-| b |-
< 1292517731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, yes, but not the Oracle version, and it's unreliable sometimes
< 1292517741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably easier just to do it over IR
< 1292517743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*IRC
< 1292517793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the point is, that although connecting the output of a to the input of b is the "obvious" thing to do, you could actually connect them anywhere
< 1292517816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so long as you don't try to take them in the opposite direction to the monad (that is, you can't take outputs from blocks that haven't run yet, unless you're writing in TwoDucks or something)
< 1292517842 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1292517956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you following this so far?
< 1292517961 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1292517978 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to think about it but i just remembered i have to call someone real quick
< 1292517990 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll let you know when i'm back, ok? shouldn't take a lot of time
< 1292518000 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, incidentally, do you know how the Maybe monad works? It's the easiest to understand non-trivial one.
< 1292518039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no it isn't, State is in this model
< 1292518050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a huge number of different ways to understand monads
< 1292518058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and different people learn it different ways
< 1292518065 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of which don't work for at least half of them.
< 1292518073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are concepts of monads where IO is simplest, where Maybe is simplest, where State is simplest
< 1292518086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are even ways of understanding monads based on starting from the trivial monad
< 1292518095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is, surprisingly, actually useful on occasion)
< 1292518108 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the category-theoretical version of monads is identical, but the metaphors you'd use are *completely* different.
< 1292518126 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, monad transformers, isn't it?
< 1292518140 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That Identity is useful for?
< 1292518153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just that
< 1292518165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use it for tagging values hungarian-notation-style, but more reliably
< 1292518177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, "this needs to be escaped before showing to the user", etc
< 1292518188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there are other ways to do that anyway in Haskell
< 1292518221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, for encapsulation purposes, to make an opaque handle that can only be passed around, not modified directly, by other parts of the program
< 1292518272 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, using the Identity monad for that seems utterly stupid.
< 1292518303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps
< 1292518304 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, why not just do data EscapedString = EscapedString String, then give it a Show instance that escapes it?
< 1292518311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't really do a lot, though, just tag things
< 1292518318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ouch at making that a Show instance
< 1292518332 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1292518332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the reason is, you couldn't do things like, say, concatenate your EscapedStrings together
< 1292518342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*UnescapedString, I suppose
< 1292518428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do something as simple as liftM reverse to reverse an EscapedString if it were a monad
< 1292518443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, *UnescapedString
< 1292518458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the idea is that these are identical to ordinary strings, just you have to be careful not to use them in situations you don't want)
< 1292518458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: it doesn't extend forever
< 1292518458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but I used it to teach cheater99 monads months ago
< 1292518461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "teach"
< 1292518469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, I think he "got" them
< 1292518475 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, erm... Functor and fmap?
< 1292518479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though the metaphor was imperfect
< 1292518482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well, monads are sorts of functors
< 1292518502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, liftM and fmap are IIRC the same function
< 1292518509 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, but why make them monads when they have no monadic properties whatsoever?
< 1292518532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they do
< 1292518547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the monad version would be Tainted String, rather than UnescapedString
< 1292518551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it actually takes a type as an argument
< 1292518559 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an article on the Haskell wiki which complains about people who use monads when some other category-theory thing would do the job.
< 1292518594 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you *could* just define the relevant functions yourself.
< 1292518595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, "unescaped" was too specific
< 1292518602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant "untrusted", etc.
< 1292518608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523, yes, but why make them monads when they have no monadic properties whatsoever?
< 1292518612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're monads they should have a Monad instance
< 1292518616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regardless of how useful it may seem
< 1292518617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. user input that you don't want to put straight into your SQL queries, whether they're strings or not
< 1292518644 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with them as monads, rather than functors, if you convert them from strings to, say, magic numbers for accessing some crazy enterprisey database
< 1292518661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then they're still inside the same monad, and thus won't be passed to the database without explicitly extracting them from the monad
< 1292518673 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait, the point here is that you /don't want a functor/.
< 1292518679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it isn't
< 1292518685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fine to do arbitrary operations on the untrusted data
< 1292518688 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so long as it remains untrusted
< 1292518707 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The original thing here was to escape strings, not have some general interface thing.
< 1292518731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I slightly screwed up my original statement, I was being slightly too specific and should have realised you'd take me literally
< 1292518748 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK.
< 1292518774 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you were talking about uses of the Identity monad.
< 1292518779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tep
< 1292518783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yep
< 1292518790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the point here is that Untrusted /is/ the Identity monad
< 1292518804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you work out what >>=, return, etc. are, they come to the same thing
< 1292518952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i saw a post on perlmonks saying perl doesn't need monads because perl already has taint built in
< 1292518968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the example being used for monads was "look, you can do taint in it without even any language support!")
< 1292519008 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh mc updated
< 1292519010 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, interesting
< 1292519018 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does it break with the server now?
< 1292519020 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-96-158.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292519023 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1292519027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not updated
< 1292519030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: he just moved some files.
< 1292519045 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh? so what was that then
< 1292519049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: he just moved some files.
< 1292519050 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as in
< 1292519057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the server
< 1292519058 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, changing directory structure?
< 1292519061 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay
< 1292519062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1292519066 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the server, right
< 1292519070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in ~/.minecraft it seems, i checked
< 1292519120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so would a scapegoat impl cache the list of toplevel patches?
< 1292519316 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hi
< 1292519379 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, out of curiosity, where does join fit into your metaphor?
< 1292519441 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey
< 1292519443 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://skrbl.com/156427695
< 1292519446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Although most filepatches will be hunks, darcs is clever enough to support other types of changes as well. A ``token replace'' patch replaces all instances of a given token with some other version. A token, here, is defined by a regular expression, which must be of the simple [a-z...] type, indicating which characters are allowed in a token, with all other characters acting as delimiters. For example, a C identifier would be a token with the fl
< 1292519446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ag [A-Za-z_0-9].
< 1292519446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What makes the token replace patch special is the fact that a token replace can be merged with almost any ordinary hunk, giving exactly what you would want. For example, you might want to change the patch type TokReplace to TokenReplace (if you decided that saving two characters of space was stupid). If you did this using hunks, it would modify every line where TokReplace occurred, and quite likely provoke a conflict with another patch modifying
< 1292519448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those lines. On the other hand, if you did this using a token replace patch, the only change that it could conflict with would be if someone else had used the token ``TokenReplace'' in their patch rather than TokReplace--and that actually would be a real conflict! ]]
< 1292519452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i did not know this ^
< 1292519458 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we start out with a simple function, Ax = 2x
< 1292519483 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and let's see how >>= works on things
< 1292519491 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1292519519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I did
< 1292519525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've even used it before now
< 1292519529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: hmm, OK
< 1292519531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: problem is, you have to do it manually
< 1292519533 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, there?
< 1292519535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed
< 1292519539 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1292519541 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, weird track south of your place. where does it go?
< 1292519542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which sort of makes the VCS a version ... creation system
< 1292519544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it isn't language-aware, so it replaces inside comments
< 1292519556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, not a very useful feature, then
< 1292519557 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, Mt. Hoover? Dunno.
< 1292519567 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To the Batmobile!
< 1292519568 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you involved in it? it is above ground
< 1292519569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rather limited, yes
< 1292519570 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and FAAR
< 1292519574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be much better
< 1292519583 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, skrbl is broken
< 1292519586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what kind of track
< 1292519588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: well, in Haskell notation, we'd write that a x = 2 * x
< 1292519596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(capital letters are reserved for type names)
< 1292519598 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, minecart
< 1292519598 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok
< 1292519601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you didn't click his fancy java whiteboard! he won't talk to you!1111
< 1292519608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i have no idea. ride it and see
< 1292519614 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-56-80.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292519623 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it completely lacks boosters, but it is mega-scale
< 1292519627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if we want to double a value, and double it again, we could write, say, a (a 5), and get 20
< 1292519630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: walk it then
< 1292519636 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, wait for me!
< 1292519649 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so we have a x = 2 * x. ok.
< 1292519661 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it is represented by a box with one pin on the left and one on the right.
< 1292519665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1292519700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, does scapegoat have an easy patch-invert algo?
< 1292519704 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dabbleboard.com/draw?b=Guest527979&i=0&c=9d321a8e4ccd7efbf770e3f5f3517f427b010b35
< 1292519710 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you see a box with "a" on it here?
< 1292519725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: darcs does inverse patches as P^-1 P = nothing, but I think it's easier to do P P^-1 = nothing... I may be wrong though
< 1292519747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that dabbleboard thing is flash.
< 1292519755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to save you opening a browser.
< 1292519883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1292519919 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i hope thatwasn't the whiteboard!
< 1292519965 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292519988 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did the whiteboard hang up your pc? :O
< 1292519988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, connection dropped
< 1292519990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where was I?
< 1292519997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you didn't actually link me to the whiteboard thing
< 1292520000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you did
< 1292520001 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dabbleboard.com/draw?b=Guest527979&i=0&c=9d321a8e4ccd7efbf770e3f5f3517f427b010b35
< 1292520005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he did, two of them, one JS, the other flash
< 1292520006 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dabbleboard
< 1292520022 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will it work for you? it's flash
< 1292520075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I loaded it in my non-locked-down browser
< 1292520099 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. do you see a box with an "a" on the drawing??
< 1292520110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1292520117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess it isn't working
< 1292520132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it loaded, but doesn't seem to have anything to do with what you're doing
< 1292520135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i had that kind of dedication to explaining things to trolls
< 1292520138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i'm not sure why
< 1292520140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, seems to be independent between me and you
< 1292520146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm a teacher, remember? it's good practice
< 1292520152 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-3-253.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292520164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, most students aren't outright trying to waste your time ... ok maybe they are
< 1292520181 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, let's abandon the whiteboard concept. i'll try to find something for next time. let's continue describing on irc :)
< 1292520184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, it isn't their fault
< 1292520197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[17:13]  ais523: so we have a x = 2 * x. ok.
< 1292520198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[17:13]  now it is represented by a box with one pin on the left and one on the right.
< 1292520199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[17:13]  yep
< 1292520201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[17:14]  if we want to connect two of them together, we can do something like "let b = (a x) in (a b)"
< 1292520202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[17:14]  i.e. we've given a name to the result, and we can use the name later on
< 1292520213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's where we'd got to
< 1292520216 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1292520251 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, that's how it works with monads involved
< 1292520258 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, let's wrap that one into a monad
< 1292520262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :monads are like burritos
< 1292520262 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1292520268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.plover.com/prog/burritos.html
< 1292520274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I write (liftM a), that's our a function, except now it's inside a monad (and doesn't interact with it)
< 1292520275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the only acceptable way to explain them
< 1292520286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the case of the sidechannel being independent of the function itself
< 1292520291 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok
< 1292520299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because it's Haskell and amazing at figuring out types, we don't have to say /which/ monad)
< 1292520300 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how does liftM know which monad i want?
< 1292520323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing like bread
< 1292520324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but we could, as in ((liftM a) :: Int -> State Int Int))
< 1292520343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: basically, if there's only one that works from context, it uses that one
< 1292520347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and normally, there is
< 1292520347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i am unconvinced your analogy has pedagogical value... although no monad analogy does
< 1292520362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually they just convey a sense of giving knowledge IMO
< 1292520379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you can tell when it's worked when the other person starts disagreeing with you
< 1292520385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it shows they've slipped into a different analogy from you
< 1292520391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone has their own mental model of things like monads
< 1292520393 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, so from context
< 1292520396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1292520397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: monads are like mirrored piles of dung
< 1292520399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: don't you agree?
< 1292520407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: now /you're/ trolling
< 1292520417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but if you don't agree, that's proof that it worked!
< 1292520445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, what I did before, was to give a name to the return value of a x, so that I could pass it to another function
< 1292520450 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, so liftM just takes a function and gives it monadic type, without the function interacting with the monad in any way
< 1292520454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Haskell lets you abbreviate that a lot, but I won't because it's clearer without)
< 1292520459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: yep, it wraps the function up in a monad
< 1292520462 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1292520475 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean "give a name to the return value of a"?
< 1292520488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, 09:25:24  (but we could, as in ((liftM a) :: Int -> State Int Int))
< 1292520490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: well, if we wanted to use it more than once, for instance
< 1292520490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is not valid
< 1292520490 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*by
< 1292520492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the slightest
< 1292520496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did I typo slightly?
< 1292520496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM :: (Monad m) => (a1 -> r) -> m a1 -> m r
< 1292520504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right
< 1292520514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be State Int Int -> ...
< 1292520516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be State Int Int -> State Int Int
< 1292520524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did mean liftM, I just braintypoed for a moment
< 1292520600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: anyway, it's sort-of like assigning to a variable, except that it's a functional-style variable (lambda binding) which just gets its value once and then keeps it until it goes out of scope, rather than an imperative-style variable whose value you can change
< 1292520632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: an immutariable :)
< 1292520669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably a better name than the usual "lambda binding"
< 1292520683 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm lost
< 1292520692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "constant" would be right but unfortunately has incorrect connotations
< 1292520694 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is liftM a  "like assigning to a variable"?
< 1292520738 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides
< 1292520740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: oh, it isn't liftM I was talking about
< 1292520748 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, what were you talking about?
< 1292520755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the "let b = (a x) in (a b)" example, because I thought you asked me about it
< 1292520763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : what do you mean "give a name to the return value of a"?
< 1292520770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I mean, I named it b so I could use it later on
< 1292520814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the issues with IRC is that you get used to having multiple conversations at once, even with the same person
< 1292520819 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ok
< 1292520820 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1292520829 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we want to connect two a's together and call them b. ok.
< 1292520849 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no
< 1292520860 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we want to connect two a's together and call one of them b for some unknown reason
< 1292520872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we want to connect them together
< 1292520874 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's so that we get x
< 1292520876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we call the point where we connect them b
< 1292520880 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let b = (a x) in (a b), alright.
< 1292520888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so here, the first one takes input x, and output b
< 1292520902 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so (a b) == 2 * 2 * x
< 1292520904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the second one takes input b, and its output is the output of the expression as a whole
< 1292520907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1292520909 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1292520917 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the second one" is (a .)
< 1292520918 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes?
< 1292520926 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where . is a "place for a variable"
< 1292520928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1292520929 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1292520932 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's keep going
< 1292520939 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :our aim is to understand >> or >>=
< 1292520941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1292520960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, let's say we want to connect two (liftM a)s together, and also connect their sidechannels together
< 1292520975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"our" aim?
< 1292520976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmmm.
< 1292520982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> and >>= are what we use to do the connection
< 1292521008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now, x is an integer with state as a sidechannel
< 1292521064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I feed it to one (liftM a), as in (liftM a) x, there isn't much of a problem
< 1292521076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose I want to connect it to both the liftM as, and they have connected sidechannels
< 1292521085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to connect the sidechannel, and connect the output as well
< 1292521100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I do (liftM a) >>= (\b. liftM a b)
< 1292521105 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1292521110 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a sec
< 1292521112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, the >>= is doing two things
< 1292521119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *\b ->
< 1292521123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right
< 1292521128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*so I do (liftM a) >>= (\b -> liftM a b)
< 1292521141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Haskell busy using a different notation from maths, it caught me out
< 1292521157 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is ( (liftM a) >>= (\b. liftM a b)) 2  == 8?
< 1292521163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (\x.e) isn't very common maths :P
< 1292521166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because 2 doesn't have a sidechannel
< 1292521167 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it "8 with some monad stuff wrapped around it"?
< 1292521170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it is for me
< 1292521171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even CS, really
< 1292521179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you gave it a 2 with state, it'd give you an 8 with the same state
< 1292521250 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, down?
< 1292521255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because liftM-produced monad actions aren't interfering with the sidechannel at all
< 1292521259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why it has to be the same state
< 1292521331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\lambda q. (\lambda g. g (\lambda x. g (q x))) (\lambda b. (\lambda k. ((k (\lambda u. u)) (\lambda l. ((k b) (\lambda t. (l (t\ \mathsf{skip}))))))) (\lambda v.\lambda w. w v))
< 1292521334 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how does join fit in here?
< 1292521341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's an actual quote from my most recent paper
< 1292521354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, probably the esoprogrammingiest bit of it
< 1292521355 0 :tehjamezZzZz!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tehjamez
< 1292521356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can i read that paper? :p
< 1292521368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, I'm not sure, let me check if it's online somewhere
< 1292521369 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah!
< 1292521372 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda ftw
< 1292521372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it paywalled and copyright-stolen (alternatively, if you just don't like me)
< 1292521395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(copyright-stolen, n. a nonce neologism for what journals do to the copyright ownership of papers.)
< 1292521406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, a pretty rubbish neologism
< 1292521449 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, *a., surely?
< 1292521459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: erm, yes
< 1292521487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think it's been published yet
< 1292521496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's the one before it: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=MImg&_imagekey=B75H1-50XT4JJ-M-1&_cdi=13109&_user=122868&_pii=S1571066110000976&_origin=search&_coverDate=09%2F06%2F2010&_sk=997349999&view=c&wchp=dGLzVtz-zSkWA&md5=29034da8cccf0c1f639f8277873c9ad1&ie=/sdarticle.pdf
< 1292521513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in other news, online journal places have stupid URLs)
< 1292521526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: paywall
< 1292521527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$19.95.
< 1292521530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1292521542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't paywall for me, presumably because I'm inside the University, rather than because I wrote it
< 1292521547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the DOI is http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.entcs.2010.08.018
< 1292521578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, but it links back to the same place
< 1292521580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1292521599 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: $20 per read seems a little excessive for that sort of thing :)
< 1292521659 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does your scrupulous adherence to the law prevent you from letting us see it?
< 1292521663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure
< 1292521673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a little confused, because I never knowingly signed copyright over to them myself
< 1292521675 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does not probably
< 1292521685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think it comes under the writing things for your employer category
< 1292521691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what most people do, that I know of,
< 1292521699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is publish the final-but-one draft before submitting it
< 1292521705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :online
< 1292521715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's "more legal"
< 1292521723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you're not publishing what they're publishing
< 1292521730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're publishing a clearly inferior draft version, with three words different
< 1292521753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha: http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~drg/papers/mfps10.pdf
< 1292521760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: SO HEY SCIENCE IS FREE RIGHT
< 1292521765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OPEN ACCESS, WORLD'S KNOWLEDGE FOR EVERYONE
< 1292521771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PAY $19.95 TO READ MORE
< 1292521775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'tis indeed different, it's missing the logo
< 1292521785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh man, without the logo why should i even bother reading it
< 1292521786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not, AFAICT, paywalled
< 1292521794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed it's not
< 1292521810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: permission to upload that to filebin.ca for backup?
< 1292521819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be there forever
< 1292521820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the off-hand chance that you own the copyrights to that draft
< 1292521824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fair enough
< 1292521827 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok
< 1292521831 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: reading
< 1292521836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, filebin.ca doesn't last forever
< 1292521840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know this from experience
< 1292521847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :     This paper is electronically published in
< 1292521847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Electronic Notes in Theoretical Computer Science
< 1292521847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      URL: www.elsevier.nl/locate/entcs
< 1292521849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess what that URL is?
< 1292521851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :answer: 404'd
< 1292521873 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like this typographic awesomness of science papers... made by LaTeX
< 1292521883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   This “functionalised” syntax can be represented in a more conventional way. For
< 1292521883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example, a program such as bool x; if (y) x=z and t else x=z or t can be
< 1292521883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :written using the functionalised syntax as:
< 1292521883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  newvar(λx.if y (asg((and(der z)(der t)), x))(asg((or((der z), (der t))), x))).
< 1292521885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but obviously!
< 1292521895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: um you realise latex is ubiquitous?
< 1292521898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: we're saying that the functionalised syntax is more convenient for our purposes
< 1292521902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it's harder to read
< 1292521908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm just kidding :)
< 1292521912 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, so...
< 1292521916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nice that the references are hyperlinked
< 1292521918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't see that much
< 1292521935 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we have LiftM a's connected with >>=.    What does >> do?
< 1292521945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what >> does is, it doesn't connect the output at all
< 1292521955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is mostly only useful if there isn't one in the first place
< 1292521970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, if you're not connecting liftM a, but, say, something that changes the state
< 1292521981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would change the sidechannel, but not produce output of its own
< 1292521989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: darcs pet peeve: Shall I record this change? (1/2)  [ynWsfvplxdaqjk], or ? for help:
< 1292521996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I like it
< 1292522001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nonono, not the UI
< 1292522002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you know you can use -a, right?
< 1292522010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the "[ynWsfvplxdaqjk]"
< 1292522015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the summary of what keys you can press?
< 1292522019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: really, it could at least list the commands in separate blocks according to what they do (respond to the question, navigate, etc.)
< 1292522023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just have fewer keys :)
< 1292522029 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure, even I use LaTeX
< 1292522034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the [] is basically useless, if you forget how it works you need to use ? anyway
< 1292522041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's a pet peeve, it doesn't have to matter :)
< 1292522074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: the other thing to mention is that there's a different notation you can use which does the same thing, just you don't have to write out all the >>=s and lambads
< 1292522089 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: gotta admint, it's interesting
< 1292522100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like this: {do b <- a x; a b}
< 1292522105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wrong
< 1292522110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do { b <- a x; a b }
< 1292522111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've messed it up again, haven't I
< 1292522121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, almost write this time
< 1292522122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*right
< 1292522127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can tell I haven't used Haskell for a while :)
< 1292522139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell and ML are two languages that I find it hard to think about simultaneously
< 1292522180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, doing the scapegoat first draft in haskell may be a bad idea from you-reading-it POV :)
< 1292522182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*from a y
< 1292522184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ou-etc.
< 1292522197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nah, I've done my little OCaml sideproject
< 1292522202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can go back to thinking in monads again
< 1292522236 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so if i did (LiftM a >> LiftM a) x, where x is two-with-a-state, what would i get?
< 1292522240 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would i get anything at all?
< 1292522247 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can LiftMa be >>'d with itself?
< 1292522264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's liftM with a lowercase l; and I think you'd just get an error
< 1292522276 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the proof is .... interesting
< 1292522278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you haven't given LiftM a an argument
< 1292522292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least, not giving a function an argument doesn't normally cause an error in Haskell, just a partial application)
< 1292522304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but I think it'd make them not connect due to being of the wrong types)
< 1292522317 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MONAD... now you're thinking with monads
< 1292522354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: the long proof at the end, in an appendix?
< 1292522359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that bit was mostly me, most of the rest was mostly Dan
< 1292522375 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t liftM
< 1292522377 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that one
< 1292522378 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry yes, lowercase l
< 1292522379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a really annoying proof, it's something like 1000 simple cases
< 1292522387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a few that require more thought
< 1292522391 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit hard to read
< 1292522395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do it in COQ!!1112
< 1292522409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: indeed
< 1292522414 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DON'T MAKE ME THINK ABOUT COQ
< 1292522419 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Abandonando
< 1292522443 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM :: (Monad m) => (a1 -> r) -> m a1 -> m r
< 1292522449 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks ais523, it was very useful
< 1292522454 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can visualize this more now
< 1292522458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ugh, did you write this latex?
< 1292522487 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, are my continued exhortations for you to explain how join fits into this growing obnoxious?
< 1292522502 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i think electronics are a very good parallel for functional programming
< 1292522509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, I wrote it in LaTeX, but the whole thing was retyped
< 1292522519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it isn't my LaTeX you're seeing there
< 1292522525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I can't remember what join does
< 1292522526 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since electronics circuits are (in theory) pretty much like functional language programs
< 1292522533 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I suspect it doens't fit the analogy too well
< 1292522534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah... because there's "FORK; XOR" in math mode; the problem is, latex is seeing that as F*O*R*K;X*O*R, so the spacing is horrid
< 1292522538 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, join = (>>= id)
< 1292522540 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are no side effects, for example, and no state unless you introduce it
< 1292522547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and \mathnormal{FORK} or however you do proper text italics in math mode (I forget) should have been used
< 1292522550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: in practice too, that's what my papers are about
< 1292522568 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At which the analogy seems to break down since id doesn't map nicely to a box.
< 1292522570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh right, Dan's awful wrt text in math mode
< 1292522586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: stab him a bit for me, if you please
< 1292522587 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now write a compiler
< 1292522590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've known him to set \mathsf{} for an entire expression, just to write a few words in sans-serif
< 1292522597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: that's likely my PhD project
< 1292522611 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome!
< 1292522622 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, in practice, you have problems such as ground plane interaction, capacitive coupling, ...
< 1292522633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: psht, no, clearly Feather is
< 1292522637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: umm, I'm a qualified electronic engineer?
< 1292522640 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with careful analog design those are bypassed
< 1292522651 0 :tehjamez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyimre you say anaology i get a notofication
< 1292522653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we're just compiling onto FPGAs
< 1292522655 0 :tehjamez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because anal is a hottoipic word for me
< 1292522658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tehjamez: analogy analogy analogy
< 1292522663 0 :tehjamez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;)
< 1292522671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tehjamez: why don't you filter it to whole words, rather than anywhere in a word?
< 1292522674 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's fine, i'm just pointing out that you're thinking of fpgas whereas i'm thinking of linear electronic circuits in general
< 1292522675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :methinks tehjamez has no idea where he is
< 1292522678 0 :tehjamez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because
< 1292522684 0 :tehjamez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if someone says anal with a ? at the end
< 1292522685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, you'll find it quite banal when people talk about analysis
< 1292522692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tehjamez: ? is nonalphabetic
< 1292522693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: damn you, i was pulling out analysis
< 1292522698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: take that back!
< 1292522699 0 :tehjamez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh its quite enjoyanalable
< 1292522708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um... uoy nmad
< 1292522713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh fine, i take it back
< 1292522716 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, *nanalphabetic
< 1292522717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :furrfu
< 1292522728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tehjamez: you could use \banal\b if you're using Perl-style regular expressions for stalkwords
< 1292522735 0 :tehjamez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahah
< 1292522737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but that's banal
< 1292522743 0 :tehjamez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl
< 1292522758 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonanalphabetic: made out of nine letters.
< 1292522767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we might see a banal publication in the correctly-spelled version of "Anals of Mathematics", analysing the most common analogies.
< 1292522777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *Annals?
< 1292522782 0 :tehjamez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is gettign hot
< 1292522782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the joke doesn't work if you misspell a word
< 1292522783 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION facepalms

< 1292522789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, the correctly-spelled version of Anals of Mathematics is Annals of Mathematics
< 1292522796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why it's quoted, and corrected in the sentence
< 1292522803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292522818 0 :tehjamez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's better to say annal with one n anyways
< 1292522821 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, i have a question about verilog
< 1292522825 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you use verilog at all?
< 1292522830 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can you recommend learning it?
< 1292522838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I grew up on VHDL, rather than Verilog, but know a bit of Verilog
< 1292522840 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to learn *something* for fpgas but not sure if verilog is the best
< 1292522841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends on what you want to do
< 1292522849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Verilog and VHDL are basically the same language with different syntax
< 1292522851 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i want to start with something simple
< 1292522859 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, say, a few fifo's chained
< 1292522865 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with async clock
< 1292522877 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. a different clock for incoming and a different for reading out
< 1292522880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they suffer from the Brainfuck issue in a way, they're not only simple, but perhaps a little too simple to accomplish anything useful without lots of code
< 1292522894 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are they functional languages?
< 1292522900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, they're behavioural
< 1292522905 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that mean?
< 1292522909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, let's see
< 1292522922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main primitive in the langs in question is connecting wires
< 1292522932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's interesting watching the patterns of one side of this conversation, as my IRC client is arranging for me :P
< 1292522943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. in VHDL syntax, a <= b means that b (an output) is connected to a (an input)
< 1292522961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pretty much all you do in the lang are connect components together by connecting their pins
< 1292522970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: whereas b => a is greater-than-or-equal-to, naturally!
< 1292522983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it actually means something completely different, and I can't remember what offhand
< 1292522988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well it /should/ be taht.
< 1292522989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :greater-than-or-equal-to is >=
< 1292522990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that.
< 1292522994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's unrelated to <=, anyway
< 1292523007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :greater-than-or-equal-to is unrelated to connecting wires! :P
< 1292523024 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, greater-or-equal is probably something slightly different)
< 1292523038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the language doesn't have statements, like some other langs do
< 1292523044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a whole load of "when a changes, b changes"
< 1292523049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, "when b changes, a changes"
< 1292523054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, e.g. if you do a <= b + 5
< 1292523062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then whenever b changes, a changes to the new value of b, plus 5
< 1292523072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the change is very slightly delayed
< 1292523091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what i'd like to see
< 1292523099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a semi-functional language based on "signals"
< 1292523103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like VHDL but with parameters
< 1292523103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g.
< 1292523107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a(n+5) <= b(n)
< 1292523111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then if you had a print function you could do
< 1292523112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the langs also let you do things like "when the clock has a positive edge, b changes to a"
< 1292523115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print(n) <= a(n)
< 1292523128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, that's pretty much all you can do if you want it to synthesize into hardware
< 1292523129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or e.g.
< 1292523135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print("a =", n) <= a(n)
< 1292523153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're just simulating, you can do more things, like use imperative-style variables, and even print messages (thus a VHDL hello world is both possible and incredibly misleading)
< 1292523166 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Prologgy!
< 1292523172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: similar, but not quite
< 1292523189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: got that? that's basically all VHDL and Verilog are, and yet they're what people /actually use/ to program FPGAs
< 1292523194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except,
< 1292523197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a(n+5) <= b(n)
< 1292523201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would actually be
< 1292523209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a(m) <= b(n), add(n, 5, m)
< 1292523215 0 :tehjamez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :420?
< 1292523224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where add is a "virtual" signal that continuously emits every combination of A+B = C
< 1292523228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :valid combination, that is
< 1292523235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this sounds quite a bit like Proud now
< 1292523239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tehjamez: if you don't know what esoteric programming languages are, go away
< 1292523246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is computable, though (add only does that in theory)
< 1292523264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it was uncomputable due to doing things like quantifying over all functions
< 1292523273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :factorial_result(0) <= factorial_of(0)
< 1292523287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, wait
< 1292523299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :factorial(0, 1) <= tick
< 1292523322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :factorial(n, r) <= sub(m, 1, m'), factorial(m', r'), times(n, r', r)
< 1292523338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tick could theoretically just tick at N Hz
< 1292523343 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1292523346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in an actual implementation, you'd probably simulate it ticking at infinity Hz
< 1292523357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. everything depending on tick executes immediately
< 1292523361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, you'd treat it as constant
< 1292523375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"factorial(0, 1) <= tick" would just add a permanent entry into a table saying "yup, factorial(0, 1) is being emitted"
< 1292523398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's basically Prolog for events :)
< 1292523409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could even implement add, e.g.
< 1292523415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add(n, 0, n) <= tick
< 1292523461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add(n, m, r) <= add(m', 1, m), add(n, m', r'), succ(r', r)
< 1292523475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :succ would have to be built-in, though (assuming numbers are primitive)
< 1292523475 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ever used altera?
< 1292523483 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what fpgas DO you use?
< 1292523502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Assume for contradiction that there is an interaction v·w·m in exactly one of the sets [[M_2]](*) • [[M_1]](*) and K_2 • K_1 (with v and w interactions, and m a move), all moves in w are in θ', the last move in v is in θ, v is in both [[M_2]](*) • [[M_1]](*) and K_2 • K_1, and at least one of the following statements is true: m is not in θ, m is a P-move in M_1, or the last move in v is an O-move in M_1 and v·w·m is not a subse
< 1292523504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: name some non-altera, non-xilinx brand
< 1292523509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh wait, there aren't any
< 1292523510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not sure if there /are/ any
< 1292523513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292523535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: let's say, I spent weeks trying to get the Xilinx boards to work, and couldn't
< 1292523547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my supervisor gave the FPGA job to someone else
< 1292523557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been involved since, but I notice there's an Altera board sitting on the desk now
< 1292523573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do_print(n) <= some_signal(n)
< 1292523580 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ouch :(
< 1292523584 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not good!
< 1292523588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ you could imagine that the platonically perfect runtime system would have a rule
< 1292523593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has_been_printed(n) <= do_print(n)
< 1292523594 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i hope you will get back on top of it
< 1292523600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: oh, no
< 1292523602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it made sense to move it
< 1292523604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and every program that /read/ things just set up a signal on that, etc.
< 1292523610 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so what are you doing now?
< 1292523615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing research >>> struggling with an FPGA board with incomplete and misleading documentation
< 1292523616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this is "functional", arguably; at least, as functional as the language's actual mechanism
< 1292523620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: writing papers, rather than struggling with hardware
< 1292523637 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I saw a FPGA ad in one of the magazines at the coffee room, and I don't think it was either one of those. (Though it could have been Xilinx. It was something PowerPC-based.)
< 1292523642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 man, why don't you want to enjoy the INNER LOVELINESS of working with fpgas
< 1292523649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope you can get back to fighting the IDEs!!!
< 1292523655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because FPGA companies know they have no competitors
< 1292523664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, that's the impression I get
< 1292523669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm joking
< 1292523684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (wrt cheater's response to the job being reassigned)
< 1292523695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it made sense, really
< 1292523704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better to put me somewhere where I can do something useful, than somewhere where I can't
< 1292523750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I was reaching the point of writing a bunch of programs just to pulse individual pins on the FPGA from the software's point of view, then getting an oscilloscope onto the FPGA board, all because, amazingly, Xilinx didn't even have a pinout for the evaluation board available)
< 1292523753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: agreed, thus the joke
< 1292523758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly a poor one
< 1292523820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(instead, they had a big complex IDE-like program that was basically an FPGA setup wizard, which was huge and monolithic and did all sorts of crazy things, like embedding a processor onto the FPGA and forcing you to communicate via it if you wanted to do any I/O over an unnecessarily complex custom protocol)
< 1292523831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292523845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seriously doubt it's possible to write a portable FPGA program
< 1292523849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so where's our mcmap
< 1292523858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to interact with hardware, rather than just toggle pins on and off
< 1292523904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: heh, I just saw the copyright notice at the bottom of Dan's website: "Copyright notice: This work is Copyrighted, and anybody caught usin' it without our permission, will be mighty good friends of ourn, cause we don't give a dern. We wrote it, that's all we wanted to do. (Woody Guthrie)"
< 1292523920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292524307 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1292524322 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is munching on some really good panettone

< 1292524327 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it pannetone?
< 1292524338 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be a language based on the concept of panettone.
< 1292524368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I also notice it's legally equivalent to all-rights-reserved, which is hilarious
< 1292524372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did you answer my sg implementation question? I forget
< 1292524383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, wow, you're right
< 1292524388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except, suing someone isn't very friendly
< 1292524395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i imagine it's slightly permissive in practice
< 1292524426 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: panettone
< 1292524436 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1292524440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I forget what the question was
< 1292524443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may as well ask again
< 1292524443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: pantone
< 1292524454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: would an sg implementation cache a list of top-level patches?
< 1292524454 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No
< 1292524459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: tanpone
< 1292524468 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No
< 1292524485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think so, it seems like the most efficient way to get things done
< 1292524486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: mascarpone
< 1292524491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how would it maintain this list?
< 1292524494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there aren't too many, it might make sense even to cache their intersections
< 1292524506 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No
< 1292524513 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :panacotta
< 1292524516 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm...
< 1292524537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'd imagine in a subdir of +scapegoat; you'd delete them from the cache if they turned out to be depended upon by other apparently top-level patches
< 1292524547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the great thing is, that lets you copy one subdir over another and it just works
< 1292524576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus preserving the ehird VCS property
< 1292524588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean, how would it know when to add or remove from the cache?
< 1292524592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how would it generate the cache the first time?
< 1292524627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'd likely maintain caches as e.g. cache/-toplevels, and then if there's two toplevel caches, sg discards them both and regenerates them
< 1292524635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever you add a patch to the DB, you also add it to the cache
< 1292524641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something of that sort
< 1292524648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever you add something that depends on a patch in the cache to the DB, you delete the patch it depends on from the cache
< 1292524648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's all patches, then, isn't it? unless you remove them often
< 1292524650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1292524665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: depends on == references a part of, right?
< 1292524671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1292524699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cache doesn't need to hold the patches themselves, incidentally, just the list
< 1292524707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :together with things like the most recent common ancestor of given pairs
< 1292524707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the hashes
< 1292524710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely
< 1292524718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it holds their names
< 1292524724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, most common ancestor doesn't sound that hard
< 1292524725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some precalculated data
< 1292524727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do on-the-fly, I mean
< 1292524737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: especially lazily
< 1292524739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably isn't
< 1292524763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: get lists of all dependencies of P1 and P2, which is a simple tree-walk, really; then just iterate through both until you find a common one
< 1292524779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the most recent common ancestor is thousands of revisions back, it'll be instant
< 1292524788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get lists being lazy there, that is
< 1292524792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you only read what you need to
< 1292524798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(an argument for impure lazy computation...)
< 1292524829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ML does impure + lazy quite well, basically using closures that need a dummy argument to force them
< 1292524840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let a = 1 + 2 calculates it now
< 1292524848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed; scheme has basically the same thing
< 1292524850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let a () = 1 + 2 calculates it each time you write a()
< 1292524857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with DELAY and FORCE
< 1292524867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(force (delay (+ 2 2))) => 4
< 1292524894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, scapegoat prototype 1 should load the whole repository into memory, I think
< 1292524895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underlambda does that too
< 1292524901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems reasonable
< 1292524903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid having to do lazy IO, which would be an unreliable pain in Haskell
< 1292524921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on small projects, it might even be efficient and reliable
< 1292524980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Assume for contradiction that there is an interaction v·w·m in exactly one of the sets [[M_2]](*) • [[M_1]](*) and K_2 • K_1 (with v and w interactions, and m a move), all moves in w are in θ', the last move in v is in θ, v is in both [[M_2]](*) • [[M_1]](*) and K_2 • K_1, and at least one of the following statements is true: m is not in θ, m is a P-move in M_1, or the last move in v is an O-move in M_1 and v·w·m is not a
< 1292524981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we should probably take the Varnish route in an actual implementation
< 1292524981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subset of K_2 • K_1. <-- my favourite part of that proof
< 1292524986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just mmap the repository
< 1292524990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292525001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sentence took me hours to figure out
< 1292525009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's just a list of apparently arbitrary assumptions
< 1292525027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that way, we can allocate repositories as big as we want (with a careless enough OS, which is Linux by default and I think BSDs), access them as ordinary memory, and still do things efficiently otherwise
< 1292525034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I spend half a page proving that they contradict each other
< 1292525039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've been won over by the Most Stuff Should Be In A Single DB position.)
< 1292525041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :D
< 1292525049 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, this is insane: http://www.ramblesandruminations.com/2006/12/hi-im-here-for-my-panetone.html
< 1292525070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, we wouldn't need a DB file if it weren't for the fact that individual changes need to be accessible
< 1292525078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leading to a huge explosion of objects
< 1292525101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what a VCS is, isn't it?
< 1292525104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I should go home
< 1292525110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292525127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, change != patch
< 1292525142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it was just storing patches, that'd be okay, but every single change in the patch has to be stored separately
< 1292525310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, repo = set of patches + irrelevant stuff like nicknames and caches
< 1292525312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :patches = set of changes
< 1292525361 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1292525505 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925109240.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292525871 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Deewiant: down?
< 1292525876 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so, yes.
< 1292525882 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah
< 1292526081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: have you seen the destruction
< 1292526085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of Deewiant
< 1292526134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so where did the ground-level minecart path go
< 1292526262 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292526466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ?
< 1292526830 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, to a hill to the south of Mt. Hoover. Some furnaces and a workbench at the end.
< 1292526861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Anyone admitted to making it?
< 1292526885 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was almost certainly nailor.
< 1292527052 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230231134.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292527072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: btw yesterday I found some pumpkins in mount vorpal and took them
< 1292527147 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's funny, i couldn't get gnocchi today at the italian place because they couldn't find any pumpkins
< 1292527152 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that explains it
< 1292527176 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is a pumpkin thief
< 1292527195 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1292528034 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: btw yesterday I found some pumpkins in mount vorpal and took them <-- if you did that I expect them back
< 1292528064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: to be fair i also put the same number + 1 back in
< 1292528090 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db40889.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292528102 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-56-80.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292528109 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heh
< 1292528128 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, down?
< 1292528129 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1292528144 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, built marker at (4000,4000)
< 1292528152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so?
< 1292528227 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah you don't get it
< 1292528235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what?
< 1292528344 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-234-226.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292528375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what?
< 1292528409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: invalid UTF-8 can make X crash.
< 1292528426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a light breeze can make X crash
< 1292528605 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, true.
< 1292528823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: mind if I colonise the unused peak of mt. vorpal?
< 1292529042 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes
< 1292529052 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it isn't unused. The throne room extends below it
< 1292529057 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other stuff too
< 1292529089 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so basically it won't be a good idea
< 1292529090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: below it, but not on top
< 1292529103 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I plan stuff there
< 1292529115 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a glass star observatorium
< 1292529118 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sp)
< 1292529126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :observatory.
< 1292529140 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it already has some buildings on it
< 1292529156 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, given your lava handling I want you NOWHERE NEAR ME
< 1292529162 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't want everything burned down
< 1292529197 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor do I want a waterfall there
< 1292529216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what have I done with lava lately??
< 1292529218 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, go make your class cube somewhere far away
< 1292529224 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, up at Deewiant's place...
< 1292529230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nothing happened
< 1292529241 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fuck off
< 1292529271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: btw, have you done anything to the deewiant express lately?
< 1292529432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: btw, almost all the house survived the lava, and dewi didn't seem overly pissed off at it, so "fuck off" is a slight overreaction.
< 1292529539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: are you /ignoring me?
< 1292529551 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's playing
< 1292529569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that doesn't mean he isn't /ignoring me!
< 1292529583 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but it can explain why he's not saying anything
< 1292529594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Does the Express still loop
< 1292529605 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, I got rid of it
< 1292529610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: BUT WHY.
< 1292529611 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The loop, not the Express)
< 1292529619 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because with lag, it's hard to stop
< 1292529627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to pour lava all over Mount Vorpal in protest
< 1292529634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then mine the debris
< 1292529648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then dig Vorpal down to bedrock and surround him with a ten-thick layer of obsidian.
< 1292529656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the rest up to sea level with TNT.
< 1292529661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is what you have done to me, Deewiant.
< 1292529868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant just doesn't realise the horror.
< 1292530049 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I was not /ignoring
< 1292530198 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292530243 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292530298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb ais523
< 1292530318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty
< 1292530370 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b75bb.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292530388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: opinion poll: "verify :: Hash -> ByteString -> Bool" or "verify :: ByteString -> Hash -> Bool"
< 1292530403 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, down?
< 1292530406 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter
< 1292530417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "fuck off" --you
< 1292530429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's obviously irrelevant, but I think the first is a little neater
< 1292530431 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes due to denying that you messed up
< 1292530444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, i was an evil deceiver
< 1292530454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did i think that i could possibly defeat the awesome power of screenshots that everyone has seen
< 1292530459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but darnit, I had malicious intent!
< 1292530466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Deewiant: you two have to duke it out to the death now
< 1292530526 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I'm the one with no clue what the params mean
< 1292530574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ais523 doesn't either, but it just checks that the bytestring hashes to the given hash
< 1292530578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is sha-512, but that's irrelevant
< 1292530582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and returns whether it does or not
< 1292530630 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the latter, verify = (==) . sha512
< 1292530653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Very well then.
< 1292530657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what?
< 1292530660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, indeed.
< 1292530662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you're right.
< 1292530668 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@75-174-222-86.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292530687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Erm, no
< 1292530689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it?
< 1292530698 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is :-P
< 1292530704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: indeed
< 1292530758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Know what's awesome? Two libraries, one that uses strict bytestrings, the other that uses lazy
< 1292530767 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, the map thing's online now. But do remember that I'm only sharing it on the "no bitching about it" condition; in fact I'll be away immediately and not discuss it at all, even if it has trivial bugs (like it probably has).
< 1292530770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, trying to use them both in one module
< 1292530775 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's at https://github.com/fis/mcmap now.
< 1292530780 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And there's a README anyway.)
< 1292530789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Thanks. If Vorpal whines I'll lava Mount Vorpal.
< 1292530797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That should be sufficient incentive, one thinks.)
< 1292530799 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What's the *ware term for that condition?
< 1292530808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Stfuware
< 1292530817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "fuck you ware".
< 1292530817 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good enough
< 1292530824 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds reasonable, yes.
< 1292530841 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to add some sort of a COPYING file at some point, maybe.
< 1292530874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But until you do, it's PUBLIC DOMAIN!*
< 1292530878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lies
< 1292530917 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1292530926 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not expecting it to be horribly popular; it's not a very user-friendly tool.
< 1292530944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "In the most basic form, ./mcmap -r 600x600 host:port"; "Unknown option -r".
< 1292530949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (Not a whine, just a bug report.)
< 1292530951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in either the readme or the C :P
< 1292530991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, it's actually -s.
< 1292531006 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!~user@2002:5870:38d7:1:20e:a6ff:fe6f:2288 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292531053 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, heh.
< 1292531059 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't have done it from memory.
< 1292531097 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I did fix at least that.
< 1292531178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OMG IT DOESN'T HANDLE RIDING IN MINECARTS FIX IT FIX IT FIX IT I PAID FOR THIS SOFTWARE NOW GIVE ME MY SUPPORT
< 1292531181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Joking.)
< 1292531208 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I wonder what is with riding. It seems to go to (0,0,0) for that.
< 1292531259 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is an "attach entity" packet that (according to the protocol wiki) "is believed to" be sent when a player has been attached to a cart.
< 1292531263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant: ais523 doesn't either, but it just checks that the bytestring hashes to the given hash <-- I guessed that from the signature, with a name like that there's not much else it could do and yet be vaguely sane
< 1292531275 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess after that it sends player motion relative to the attached entity, and then just moves the entity around.
< 1292531308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I like how chats are invisible if you use a light background, got confused there for a second. :p
< 1292531319 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292531331 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, yes. There's the --nocolor flag for that.
< 1292531352 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though then it won't strip out the color codes either.
< 1292531360 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you'll see §f's everywhere.
< 1292531431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Carapace Averages Nine Thin Zit Loots | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1292531449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that topic was crying out to be anagrammed
< 1292531477 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, err, I have zlib but not in pkg-config it seems
< 1292531507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's not fizzie's problem
< 1292531520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, just wondering why
< 1292531526 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ubuntu 10.04 LTS
< 1292531531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie probably knows, 'cuz he's psychic.
< 1292531538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you're totally obeying the "no questions" policy.
< 1292531541 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I thought he used ubuntu too nowdays
< 1292531550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sometimes I think the main difference between you and zzo38 is that you give the context
< 1292531566 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, could be.
< 1292531569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and zzo38 is too detached from what we're saying to get angry :P
< 1292531576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at us, for anything)
< 1292531587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'd take two zzos over one Vorpal
< 1292531655 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since this one is zzo38, there should be 38 before him
< 1292531674 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, switching to -lz for zlib works
< 1292531751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ dpkg-query -S zlib.pc
< 1292531751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zlib1g-dev: /usr/lib/pkgconfig/zlib.pc
< 1292531755 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's where mine is from.
< 1292531892 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, awesome tool
< 1292531899 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I have that package
< 1292531903 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but I'm on last LTS
< 1292531940 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1292532279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I think scapegoat objects need types as part of their name, so e.g. "look at all patches" is a reasonable operation
< 1292532301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh btw:
< 1292532302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:44:30  ais523: btw, we wouldn't need a DB file if it weren't for the fact that individual changes need to be accessible
< 1292532302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:44:38  leading to a huge explosion of objects
< 1292532302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:45:01  that's what a VCS is, isn't it?
< 1292532302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:45:04  anyway, I should go home
< 1292532303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:45:10 --- quit: ais523 (Remote host closed the connection)
< 1292532305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:45:27  ais523: no, change != patch
< 1292532307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:45:42  if it was just storing patches, that'd be okay, but every single change in the patch has to be stored separately
< 1292532310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:48:30  hmm, repo = set of patches + irrelevant stuff like nicknames and caches
< 1292532312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:48:32  patches = set of changes
< 1292532314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chaneg ~= hunk
< 1292532316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*change
< 1292532399 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292532470 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db423e0.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292532671 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, stop ruining the hole
< 1292532682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a patch either has exactly one change, or is a set of other patches
< 1292532682 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, conclusion: in the future keep exploration silent
< 1292532682 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, RUINING IT BY FIXING IT
< 1292532692 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you broke it. Lava does not belong there
< 1292532706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably go back to calling them turtles again
< 1292532712 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, but if you were silent about your achievements how would you prop up your ego?
< 1292532742 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, very droll
< 1292532771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1292532773 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a serious point!
< 1292532779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, seems it didn't remember my login
< 1292533410 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, would it be feasible to make it render leaves transparently?
< 1292533708 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that seems to work
< 1292533712 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard coded patch thoug
< 1292533715 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though*
< 1292533743 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could more easily just not render leaves at all. The surface bitmap (well, "blockmap") is being separately maintained by the updates for faster drawing, so you could just either skip leaves (like it skips air).
< 1292533821 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is what I did
< 1292533854 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to do that properly, you'll need to do that in both handle_chunk and block_change.
< 1292533906 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah just did it in handle_chunk
< 1292533922 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the latter only matters if you go and dig out the leaves.
< 1292533945 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should probably add some sort of block-type enum for any block-specific customizations at some point. The current testing for air (!x) is a bit iffy too.
< 1292533973 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, iffy how?
< 1292533986 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also yeah the AIR_COLOUR thing for stuff like buttons won't do much
< 1292534006 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's mostly meant for the cross-section map.
< 1292534011 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where it works reasonably well.
< 1292534103 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why is south now down btw?
< 1292534104 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I could have a better "these blocks are practically empty" table that it'd use for the surface map, and a command-line flag to include/exclude leaves in that.
< 1292534110 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not down.
< 1292534119 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I don't think it is.
< 1292534120 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, s/now/not/
< 1292534124 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1292534133 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I've oriented myself to ineiros' maps.
< 1292534143 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292534161 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if I just swap x/y y/x, I get north/south properly but then east/west will be the wrong way around, and that's really confusing.
< 1292534178 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and yes zoom would be nice, kind of hard to spot pumpkins now
< 1292534252 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There could be some sort of highlight mode that'd greyscale the other block colors and turn the one you're looking for red, or something. (Or just desaturate-but-not-completely.)
< 1292534253 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I hit some kind of redrawing bug
< 1292534270 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of?
< 1292534279 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not that I'm going to think about it now.)
< 1292534282 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, vertical 1 pix wide lines
< 1292534286 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, when I go south
< 1292534291 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :into unmapped
< 1292534306 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, note I have both a chunk at spawn, and a chunk at 4000,4000
< 1292534306 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about that. Screenshot?
< 1292534321 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sure, could be my fault when hiding leaves. who knows
< 1292534356 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A surface that large will take quite a bit of memory. (61 megs or so.)
< 1292534362 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link to this magic mappy thing?
< 1292534399 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pleasepleaseplease?
< 1292534404 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/lastlog http
< 1292534424 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, http://sporksirc.net/~anmaster/tmp/mcmap.png
< 1292534436 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and I run the mapper on a separate computer :P
< 1292534443 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, where's this mapper thing?
< 1292534463 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, see what Deewiant said
< 1292534493 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I did enter a minecart by mistake, not sure if that affects it
< 1292534519 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got some bit strange-looking surfaces when traveling by minecart, but, well, who knows.
< 1292534609 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re zoom, you could just use compiz' magical zoom if you're running it on another box (that can do that).
< 1292534655 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope all the exploration won't make the server really run out of memory storing the world.
< 1292534684 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess when unloading blocks from the clients it also unloads them from itself and only keeps them in the disk storage, though.
< 1292534688 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least one could hope so.
< 1292534703 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292534709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: a patch either has exactly one change, or is a set of other patches
< 1292534713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1292534719 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that box has intel graphics
< 1292534720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why not just do patch = set of changes
< 1292534726 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't think compiz is a good idea there
< 1292534734 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292534745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I should probably go back to calling them turtles again
< 1292534750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: turtles are the file trees
< 1292534752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: silly
< 1292534772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the actual tree with all the files, belonging to a specific patch
< 1292534806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no?
< 1292534910 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f681.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292534987 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah
< 1292534990 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, down?
< 1292535022 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't care less.
< 1292535038 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, "tough shit".
< 1292535564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ping?
< 1292535837 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal
< 1292535916 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's lime green in mcmap?
< 1292535923 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, got it to work btw?
< 1292535946 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, thanks to your polite and helpful advice.
< 1292535966 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, lime  = green cobble
< 1292535973 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, so that's a dungeon.
< 1292536008 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, probably
< 1292536159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/1jip7 Goodbye AltaVista and delicious.
< 1292536167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also AlltheWeb.
< 1292536240 0 :yiyus_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292536283 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1292536337 0 :reiffert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1292536364 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1292536364 0 :fxkr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1292536589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ping
< 1292536667 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292536667 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292536668 0 :tehjamez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292536668 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292536668 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
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< 1292536669 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
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< 1292536671 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
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< 1292536672 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
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< 1292536699 0 :yiyus!~124271242@67.202.106.57 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1292536699 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!~user@2002:5870:38d7:1:20e:a6ff:fe6f:2288 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292536699 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@75-174-222-86.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292536699 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292536699 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-56-80.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292536699 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230231134.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292536699 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925109240.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292536699 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-3-253.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292536699 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1292536699 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1292536699 0 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1292536712 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1292536713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ping
< 1292536739 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-234-226.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292536783 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, tab stacking is nice
< 1292536797 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quartered the height of my tab bar
< 1292536839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: hm?
< 1292536886 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new feature in opera 11, allows you to combine tabs into tab groups (maybe they're called stacks)
< 1292537023 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed it's called a "tab stack", it displays the active tab and a small button to expand it and view all the other tabs in the stack
< 1292537050 0 :Sasha2_!~WHAT@97-124-46-110.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292537098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: oh, you're a stupid opera user, i forgot
< 1292537118 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I stupid? really?
< 1292537142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: only in that you use opera :)
< 1292537199 0 :yiyus_!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292537208 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1292537212 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ok.
< 1292537226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it's like, a little pocket of stupidity
< 1292537233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if albert einstein regularly shot himself in the face
< 1292537240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'd be a stupid self-face-shooter
< 1292537242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not stupid
< 1292537259 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you ubuntu: "The computer needs to restart to finish installing updates. Please save your work before continuing."
< 1292537272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: dude, even debian does that
< 1292537281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although it lets you make it go away for N times)
< 1292537287 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is, it wants to restart *before* upgrading
< 1292537287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where times = seconds, minutes, whatever
< 1292537298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: no, i think that's misleading wording
< 1292537305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just means "i replaced the kernel, reboot, you bum"
< 1292537308 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, torrenting?
< 1292537310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe libc too
< 1292537324 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, it's serious: pressing "install updates" does nothing but pops up that message
< 1292537347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: impressive. what.
< 1292537360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: not even os x does that ;)
< 1292537365 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. They released another episode of Pioneer One. Shouldn't take long.
< 1292537400 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: os x does that for many (most?) upgrades though, you have to install-and-reboot in one operation
< 1292537412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: true.
< 1292537420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it's irritating how long it can lock you in an "upgrading lol" screen
< 1292537424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it never used to do that in Tiger
< 1292537449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: You may NEVER EVER use your internet connection for recreational purposes; we *depend* on Minecraft!
< 1292537511 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That is honestly scary. :P
< 1292537521 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll just have to uninstall the automatic updates program so I'm not annoyed by there being updates it won't allow me to install
< 1292537526 0 :tehjamez!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292537527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: Well, if Vorpal was the only player, that would in fact be the case.
< 1292537537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you could just disable them rather than uninstalling it :)
< 1292537542 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Maybe I should take a second connection with a better upstream and make you people pay for it. :)
< 1292537553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: or just colocate :P
< 1292537573 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but... why would I keep it installed when I've disabled it?
< 1292537587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: because of the ubuntu-desktop metapackage
< 1292537594 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not as if I have infinity space to give away to useless software
< 1292537598 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: I keep suggesting the CloudCraft.
< 1292537601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: so that when Canonical add more and more crap in the next major release, you can get it without manually installing it!
< 1292537606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: P2PCraft
< 1292537625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: If everyone democratically decides that you're in a gigantic lava pit covered with obsidian at the bottom of the sea, well, you are!
< 1292537668 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ubuntu-desktop doesn't fit :)
< 1292537680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ok, i'll bite: what machine is this?
< 1292537706 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cool, i didn't know there was a parisc channel
< 1292537728 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, actually it would fit according to the package manager's estimate of used space
< 1292537746 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd leave ~100MB of free space
< 1292537768 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, incidentally, what happens when Beta comes out?
< 1292537774 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: To quote the SDL documentation wiki: "A lot of the keysyms are unavailable on most keyboards. For example, the SDLK_1 keysym can't be accessed on a French keyboard. You get the SDLK_AMPERSAND instead. So, you should not hardcode any keysym unless it's one of the universal keys that are available on all keyboards."
< 1292537788 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's just this one, my main desktop system
< 1292537800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: how much disk have you got? how much is used? :p
< 1292537809 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5GB used to be plenty of space for linux, apparently not so much anymore
< 1292537818 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(currently using 4.6GB of it)
< 1292537819 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you pick apart that protocol and reimplement mcmap?
< 1292537821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: mcmap is provided without support. :p
< 1292537825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: erm do you have a separate /home?
< 1292537829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you really stuff everything into 5 gigs?
< 1292537830 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1292537835 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't ask him to fix it, I'm just informing. :-P
< 1292537839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, he just adds handling for server-side inventory packets.
< 1292537842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: :P
< 1292537871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: (Do French keyboards have & where 1 should be?)
< 1292537890 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, but SDLK_1 doesn't work for my keyboard so I have to hack it.
< 1292537896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_z9jvYW4hF3k/Sw56ZFHSceI/AAAAAAAAAB8/OhcuW0qzRG0/s1600/titanium_azerty_keyboard.jpg
< 1292537901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like Frenchies have punctuation on shift.
< 1292537903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And & below 1.
< 1292537905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1292537908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like Frenchies have digits on shift.
< 1292537915 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As do I.
< 1292537960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That's 'cuz you're Finnish.
< 1292537964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The explanation for everything.)
< 1292538019 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Sure, I'll fix for beta if it breaks, assuming it's not too dissimilar.
< 1292538040 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Do the Unicode-translation chars work better?
< 1292538063 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, my workaround was to add SDL_EnableUNICODE and use the .unicode field for 1,2,3
< 1292538068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I demand you add a command to spit out the locations of objects in a specific list of object ID #s within +-X,Y,Z of your current position. --Vorpal
< 1292538076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (Actually that *would* be kind of useful X-D)
< 1292538084 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a big part of the partition is used by my home folder though, 300MB of irc logs for example :P
< 1292538092 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But upon reflection, I probably should've made it respond to !,@,# so I don't have to press shift. :-P
< 1292538092 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'll fix it like that in the next version.
< 1292538096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Consider bzipping them :P
< 1292538119 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Ooh, or a keyboard mapping config file. :p
< 1292538122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Just make it subtract (keysym of 1) from the keycode, and %3 it.
< 1292538130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Then every 3 successive keysyms on the keyboard work.
< 1292538133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCIENCE
< 1292538137 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: !,@,# aren't successive.
< 1292538147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Pick better keys
< 1292538153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or use multiple hands, stretched
< 1292538155 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: THEY'RE THE DEFAULTS
< 1292538161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Thus why
< 1292538164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: Just make it subtract (keysym of 1) from the keycode, and %3 it.
< 1292538164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: Then every 3 successive keysyms on the keyboard work.
< 1292538165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCIENCE
< 1292538179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could use qwe, rty, or uio! Assuming those scan properly. If not, pick other keys!
< 1292538257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant passed out from the awesomeness of my idea.
< 1292538266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU COULD EVEN USE NUMLOCK
< 1292538276 0 :Sasha2_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1292538487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ping
< 1292538493 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, incidentally, you might want to change the readme for mcmap to make it clear that you have to connect to 127.0.0.1
< 1292538502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: pong
< 1292538509 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was pretty clear
< 1292538515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  elliott: a patch either has exactly one change, or is a set of other patches
< 1292538515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmm
< 1292538515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: why not just do patch = set of changes
< 1292538518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  I should probably go back to calling them turtles again
< 1292538518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: turtles are the file trees
< 1292538518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: silly
< 1292538518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : as in, the actual tree with all the files, belonging to a specific patch
< 1292538519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : no?
< 1292538531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I tried localhost, which doesn't work
< 1292538536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because patch = set of changes only does one level
< 1292538543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Also :(the port we use) whereas it's always :25567 for mcmap.
< 1292538547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and? :p
< 1292538550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should be able to group individual changes into a commit, individual commits into a tag, etc
< 1292538560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, true... but does a tag have to be a patch?
< 1292538561 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Worked for me!
< 1292538562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, a "merge resolution" is also a set of patches, some reverts and some unreverts
< 1292538566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean, a patch to /what/?
< 1292538573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : also, a "merge resolution" is also a set of patches, some reverts and some unreverts
< 1292538575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then it's not a set!
< 1292538576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a list
< 1292538577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, /everything/'s a patch to nothing
< 1292538579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the application order matters
< 1292538580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, it's a set
< 1292538587 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292538589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :howso?
< 1292538596 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1292538599 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rule is, you apply patches before patches that depend on them
< 1292538608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, fair enough
< 1292538610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it's ambiguous even then, you have a merge conflict
< 1292538626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the other rule is, you don't apply a reverted patch at all (that is, if both the patch and its revert are in the set)
< 1292538640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is needed for merge resolutions to make sense at all
< 1292538643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm fairly sure that we need to reserve two hashes, BTW
< 1292538649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps
< 1292538651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for "Start" and "End"
< 1292538653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (SOF and EOF)
< 1292538658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which have no valid expression as patches
< 1292538666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that makes sense
< 1292538671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd just do all-zeroes and all-ones, as that's a pretty unlikely hash
< 1292538675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*both are pretty unlikely
< 1292538678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that's wrong altogether
< 1292538678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, not unlikely in absolute senses
< 1292538683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hm?
< 1292538683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different files have different SOF and EOF
< 1292538688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Of course.
< 1292538692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But there are no files.
< 1292538710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Consider: Two empty files in a directory point to the same object, the Start/End patch.
< 1292538710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do directories contain?
< 1292538717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, no
< 1292538720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, yes
< 1292538726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two empty files each have their own start and their own end
< 1292538730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Why?
< 1292538735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, if you did "add between start and end", how would you know which file it went into?
< 1292538748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you don't have to; the directory tells you what to put in what file
< 1292538751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the /only/ information for an addition is what it goes between
< 1292538755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that seems very backwards
< 1292538767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you look at the patch, apply it to the [(Start,""),(End,"")] string, and then write it to the file listed in the directory entry
< 1292538768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, you'd have to amend the directory every time you changed a file in it
< 1292538771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just the metadata
< 1292538775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is great because you can completely rip out FS-centrism
< 1292538776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :patches /do not have directory data/
< 1292538778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just by replacing directories
< 1292538784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523:  then, you'd have to amend the directory every time you changed a file in it
< 1292538786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, you do anyway
< 1292538790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the hash changes
< 1292538791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you don't
< 1292538794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the hash changes
< 1292538799 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the directory doesn't depend on the files in it at all
< 1292538803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, I create an empty directory
< 1292538809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I add a file to it, that doesn't change the original hash
< 1292538822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just adds a new one, "add file to directory with hash 1298371028938"
< 1292538839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *add file to directory OSDIJFSODF with hash ASOIDHASOD
< 1292538846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, no, no!!!!
< 1292538862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so directories are maintained completely differently to files?
< 1292538863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exciting
< 1292538864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hash of "add file to directory with hash 129837192837", together with metadata, etc, /is/ the hash used to refer to the new file
< 1292538872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so directories are maintained completely the same as files
< 1292538876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why can't you have a file outside a directory?
< 1292538891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then how would you know what project it was in?
< 1292538902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you wouldn't
< 1292538906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seemed to understand this a couple of days ago...
< 1292538913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, I do
< 1292538925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just trolling you at this point, in the hopes of making the system even more interesting
< 1292538930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(OK,  the hash of "add file to directory with hash 129837192837", together with metadata, etc, /is/ the hash used to refer to the new file
< 1292538935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :helped, but after that I've just been trolling :))
< 1292538939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292538950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, shouldn't I just ignore you until you stop?
< 1292538956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've stopped now
< 1292538968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK then, given "add file to directory with hash 129837192837", what does a patch that inserts a single line "hi" into that file look like?
< 1292539016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's "add 'hi' between 239487-SOF and 239487-EOF", where 239487 is the hash in question and -SOF and -EOF are hashes based on that
< 1292539037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, you could literally append the -SOF and -EOF to the end, because all that matters about the hashes is a unique method of creating them
< 1292539037 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, this mp3 player has a built-in hypnotoad feature, that plays the hypnotoad tune in the background when the program is running
< 1292539038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, what object do those hashes point to?
< 1292539051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to 239487, of course
< 1292539054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the Implementation Guy, I insist all hashes point to an actual object
< 1292539059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, because they're != 239487
< 1292539066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: say they're 27 and 72 respectively
< 1292539069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what objects do they point do?
< 1292539070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to?
< 1292539076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the start and end of 239487
< 1292539076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: :D
< 1292539086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are real concepts
< 1292539091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so every time you create a file, you create two patch objects too?
< 1292539094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1292539104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And these patch objects are "SOF" and "EOF"?
< 1292539112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of that file, yes
< 1292539120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, so "SOF " and "EOF "?
< 1292539133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be one way to express it
< 1292539139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Fair enough then.
< 1292539140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, of course, an impl detail
< 1292539153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Of course; it's just that I'm the Implementation Guy looking to Actually Implement it. :)
< 1292539166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm still down in the trenches of the object storage layer right now, though.)
< 1292539178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so, let me see
< 1292539245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: patch := insert  between  and  | replace  with  | delete  | do all of  | start of file  | end of file 
< 1292539250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: except, for directories, it's
< 1292539269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :patch := insert  | delete  | do all of  | empty-directory
< 1292539273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*empty directory
< 1292539274 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Plain "localhost" worked just fine for me, too.
< 1292539275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes?
< 1292539284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm checking that
< 1292539315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for directories, it'd be patch := insert file  | insert directory 
< 1292539316 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's 25565 (not 25567) that's mcmap's (and Minecraft's) default port, unless I'm mistaken.
< 1292539322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than just a plain insert
< 1292539331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, make it
< 1292539334 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The listening port is a command line option too.)
< 1292539343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: patch := insert  | delete  | do all of  | empty directory
< 1292539344 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292539348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: where fileinfo also allows symlinks, etc
< 1292539352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, fair enough
< 1292539361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking that these types will likely eventually be pluggable anyway
< 1292539384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: one problem I can see right off the bat is that "start of file  | end of file " is a type constraint -- those must be "insert " changes -- that is not represented within the implementation type system
< 1292539387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, then again,
< 1292539389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the eventual plan is to use C
< 1292539393 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : so I checked both of them to see what would happen
< 1292539395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we're in for that kind of pain /anyway/ :)
< 1292539396 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR SCIENCE!
< 1292539429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: turns out, my login wasn't remembered
< 1292539433 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1292539450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wonder if the people in charge of the forum had ever heard of radio buttons
< 1292539456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, say P:S means "line S (blame: patch P)"; what does the patch (insert "cat" between P1 and P2) do to the file [P1:"rabbit", P3:"weasel", P2:"dog"]?
< 1292539458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: conflict?
< 1292539468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how my apply function did it, it just wouldn't let you
< 1292539471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (assuming no merge handling)
< 1292539485 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the real "x-ray" vision mode, I thought I'd just add a key that causes mcmap to send "set block to glass" packets for each non-interesting (not ore, chest, etc.) block inside a given radius, and then (for fake-glass) reply to all "player digging" packets with set-block-to-what-it-was.
< 1292539500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: conflict
< 1292539517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thought so
< 1292539517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because there's no way to automatically guess whether it should go before or after the weasel)
< 1292539539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I like how it turned from the string "weasel" into an actual weasel embedded in the file in the space of a few IRC messages.
< 1292539539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, as for your hatred of the automatic v v v v ^ ^ ^ ^ conflict marking in files
< 1292539559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the obvious thing to do is to have a command to edit the files with conflict marking, but not do it by default
< 1292539573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: possibly, but it shouldn't name it with the original filename
< 1292539580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: foo.conflicts I could accept, but not foo
< 1292539588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, often, in such cases, you want to edit the file into the unconflicted version
< 1292539598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so mv it back afterwards?
< 1292539608 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, if you have sensible-for-everyone mcmap fixes (as opposed to local-only kludges), the github repo is public read-write, you can just push there.
< 1292539611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the VCS shouldn't pose one of its own-format (even if it is a simple format) files as the real thing
< 1292539620 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quit
< 1292539634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I sort-of see what you mean; on the other hand, they're presenting something that should be edited into the real thing
< 1292539638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: IMO, if sg gets a merge conflict, it should refuse to update /any/ file you have *by default*
< 1292539640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, obviously it should work like sudoedit
< 1292539652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not even the files not involved in the conflict?
< 1292539653 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292539661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed, since working directory wouldn't be in a consistent state
< 1292539690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it should print out the conflicts, you should be able to do "sg conflicts write filename" which would create filename.conflicts or whatever, which you would then fix,
< 1292539702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and then you'd do "sg conflicts fixed filename"
< 1292539705 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292539714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and once you'd fixed all conflicts, you could do "sg conflicts commit-fix" (command names all hypothetical)
< 1292539720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: something like that, anyway
< 1292539735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: of course, this only applies to when you try and check out a conflicting revision which ... wait
< 1292539738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can that ever actually happen with sg?
< 1292539749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, if you explicitly specify a conflicting revision
< 1292539755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would make sense if, say, you wanted to fix the conflict
< 1292539767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how an a revision conflict with itself?
< 1292539779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you specify a patchset
< 1292539784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the set is internally inconsistent, that's a conflict
< 1292539793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why can you checkout multiple patches? shouldn't you only be able to check out one?
< 1292539814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, indeed, but that patch might be a set of patches
< 1292539818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which conflict with each other
< 1292539824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's a perfectly sensible thing to want to do
< 1292539843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people will want to resolve merge conflicts eventually, rather than leave the two version in the repo forever
< 1292539861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, but should you really be able to commit a patch that conflicts?
< 1292539869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just speaking platonically here
< 1292539892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should be able to pull a patch that conflicts, certainly
< 1292539912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fair enough
< 1292539922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a huge number of usecases for that
< 1292539930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then your repo would be inconsistent, but you probably intended that
< 1292539932 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does the joint mine agreement cover the spoils from dungeon crawling?
< 1292539933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you fix the inconsistency
< 1292539988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Not sure.
< 1292540045 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The iron is unambiguously shared, though, so I'll give you half of that.
< 1292540465 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, can you generate a new map sometime soon?
< 1292540721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm
< 1292540735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we need so many caches... maybe we can replace sg(1) with one big cache :)
< 1292540738 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Coyote finally caught me
< 1292540745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292540750 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292540776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't get darcs' patch theory
< 1292540776 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Except one in about an hour.
< 1292540781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: all this commuting patches and stuff
< 1292540789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's never explained why it's really useful or correct at all
< 1292540799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't ever elaborate on why this is a good way to do merging
< 1292540810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sorear looked into it, and concluded that it was just smoke and mirrors
< 1292540823 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292540842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so, tl;dr: "I'm a physicist and can use LaTeX, therefore I've solved merging!"?
< 1292540885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps
< 1292540898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (as opposed to you: "I'm a computer scientist and it's fractal, therefore I've solved merging!" :-))
< 1292540916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not claiming to have solved merging, necessarily; I just came up with the model and noticed it had good merging properties
< 1292540929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was joking :)
< 1292540973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: FWIW, the model seems sound to me.
< 1292541018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, it's at least fully-specified
< 1292541020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it does something
< 1292541028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only way in which it could malfunction is it not doing what we want
< 1292541041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed
< 1292541243 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1292541258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, the type system of the object store I have in mind is quite queer
< 1292541260 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nifty... Konqi does not fallback from IPv6 to IPv4 at all (and neither it presumably will fallback from one address to another)...
< 1292541297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Every object has a type, and every type mandates a certain set of fields. But arbitrary fields can be added to it, and are just ignored by clients that don't support them.
< 1292541308 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couple this with IPv6 routing problems and one is in for some nasty surprises...
< 1292541308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Modelling this in Haskell = OH SO MUCH FUN (pain)
< 1292541316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292541336 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Everyone sucks!
< 1292541403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've been coding this like every object would have its own serialisation procedure, but I think I'm going to rewrite it to only support "string -> arbitrary binary data" maps.
< 1292541414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you write procedures to extract the keys you care about into a Haskell value.
< 1292541418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and vice versa)
< 1292541498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: any opinions on --and I know this is horribly implementationy-- the object store file format?
< 1292541513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of any obvious features it would need
< 1292541521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than storing the data, ofc
< 1292541531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was thinking a B-tree, but I'm not sure how well that would work for a structure that's essentially a big set of (type,hash)=>stuff, with random lookup required on hash.
< 1292541534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give it a version number, so we can subsequently change the format if necessary
< 1292541551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically it shouldn't require too many seeks, or a huge amount of iteration, to get to the stuff belonging to a given hash.
< 1292541566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the obvious storage system is a Perl-style associative array
< 1292541573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not much of a serialisation format, though
< 1292541578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292541646 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292541688 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292541706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not sure how B-trees let me do a random lookup like this, though, as I'm no filesystems guy... :/
< 1292541709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any ideas? :p
< 1292541776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick with filesystem-style things is to reduce the number of seeks you need
< 1292541797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm far from an expert on that sort of thing either
< 1292541810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear B-trees are used, but *eh*, serialisation format can wait!
< 1292541813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who tracks revisions on disk anyway.
< 1292541951 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1292542009 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, does the server work for you?
< 1292542017 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I get null pointer exception all the time no
< 1292542018 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now
< 1292542026 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm connected
< 1292542026 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Now I will write TeXnicard.
< 1292542043 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I had some weird item dupe bug then got disconnected
< 1292542057 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll wait a few minutes for anything floating around there to get timed out
< 1292542061 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I'll try again
< 1292542080 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, if that doesn't work, do you have any way to poke the server?
< 1292542121 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poke?
< 1292542146 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has to admit all the spam in the esoforum doesn't look good, even if the noise is visible mainly because the signal is so tiny

< 1292542173 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, as in, get in contact with ineiros
< 1292542181 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope
< 1292542197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'm sure ineiros REALLY WANTS TO BE CONTACTABLE 24/7 FOR THIS.
< 1292542209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, Vorpal, maybe you should move in with him and watch him sleep.
< 1292542219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the server goes down you could just breathe into his face until he wakes up.
< 1292542227 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, strawman
< 1292542240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, you could make an effigy of ineiros while you're there.
< 1292542243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out of straw.
< 1292542244 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: clearly what we need here is some kind of server-dream interface
< 1292542258 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait logic turns off when you sleep.  never mind.
< 1292542267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Maybe we could just rewire ineiros's brain to connect to Minecraft when he sleeps.
< 1292542274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...hell, *I* would go for that
< 1292542360 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292542382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, any opinions on Unicode support?
< 1292542397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obviously better than no Unicode support
< 1292542400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I /think/ at least the first paragraph won't have a smaller VCS-relevant unit than the line, so it isn't a big problem there
< 1292542417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess it's just patch descriptions etc., where it's obviously a good thing
< 1292542419 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292542439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd suggest as using lines as the VCS basis to get something working, and switching to pluggable bases later
< 1292542441 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will IRC, homework, and verb nouns at the same time
< 1292542448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, and at the moment, the model of scapegoat we have /will/ mangle any binary file it can if you stuff one in
< 1292542450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe
< 1292542452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, with patch descriptions, etc, couldn't you just store them verbatim
< 1292542457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose if \r isn't treated specially, it could be okay
< 1292542461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly won't get small patches though
< 1292542517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Tubes#Boxdrawing_symols aaargh painful to read
< 1292542530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why don't you delete that page, seeing as you're a wiki admin as we all know >:D
< 1292542533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: true
< 1292542533 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I stayed well out of that, because I couldn't understand what it was about
< 1292542569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "I want a charset encoding that has box-drawing chars as single bytes. What is it? (Is it obscure? If so, I'd better not use it.) Here is a C-based demonstration that I have no idea what the hell I'm talking about, and also use Windows. Goodbye!"
< 1292542648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he's talking about IBMgraphics, potentially
< 1292542650 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o oerjan
< 1292542661 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+b *!*Sgeo@*.dyn.optonline.net
< 1292542662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, which == codepage 437
< 1292542667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: <3
< 1292542681 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he asked me to do this yesterday if he failed the temptation)
< 1292542684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know
< 1292542695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how you waited before pouncing
< 1292542708 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i didn't i just was web browsing :D
< 1292542727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but it LOOKED like you did
< 1292542729 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-o oerjan
< 1292542738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he's crying now, he isn't responding to my /msg :D
< 1292542920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : SORRY NO CAN DO
< 1292542920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo drowns elliott in tears
< 1292542927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you forgot to ban his clog access
< 1292542996 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, night
< 1292543033 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<@oerjan> (he asked me to do this yesterday if he failed the temptation) <-- what temptation?
< 1292543049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: to not go to bed
< 1292543052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*COUGH*
< 1292543068 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the temptation to irc when he needed to do his homework
< 1292543075 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@128.198.97.64 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292543076 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually I just observed it was night
< 1292543077 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :P
< 1292543083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: should object keys be Unicode? :-D
< 1292543089 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the observation is still accurate
< 1292543223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Minecraft is a game about placing blocks to build anything you can imagine. At night monsters come out, make sure to build a shelter before that happens."
< 1292543228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worst sales text ever.
< 1292543501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you forgetting Enigma?
< 1292543510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enigma contains different floors !
< 1292543518 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;d
< 1292543518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: dammit, I *did* just forget about that before you reminded me
< 1292543528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now the general quality of things in my head has decreased significantly
< 1292543533 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want minecraft ;f
< 1292543535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, you never know, it /could/ help
< 1292543547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if I ever need to cheesy someone to death?
< 1292543553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, sorry it, I retract that statement
< 1292543559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, it's bad enough for people to talk about it
< 1292543566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Downloading of large movie clips is useful, as you will likely review them many times."
< 1292543569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not /that/ one, I sure won't!
< 1292543572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: have you seen the Enigma trailer? it's hilarious
< 1292543657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV9l26Y-mBk
< 1292543675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: (turn up for bad music)
< 1292544220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was about to ask whether you considered objects being non-plaintext OK but then realised that it's in a DB anyway...
< 1292544223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO NEVER MIND
< 1292544472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg, can someone kill google for me?
< 1292544655 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, my account seems broken. Could you when you see this message remove the files for it (same as you did for PH when he became a ghost)
< 1292544685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was a ghost earlier today and didn't whine about it.
< 1292544688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just reconnected and killed it.
< 1292544767 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Done.
< 1292544806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: He's moving in with you BTW.
< 1292544817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant, if that doesn't work, do you have any way to poke the server?
< 1292544818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Poke?
< 1292544819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant, as in, get in contact with ineiros
< 1292544824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: Make room.
< 1292544916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hey you're not the most paranoid person ever now
< 1292544918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=106877
< 1292544954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I don't trust you, you're lying, make a video to prove you made this" [other person] "here's a pic" [creator] "I'll make a video" [first person] "No we need a video AND a virus scanner because I am scared to even touch a zip if it might have viruses inside oh god"
< 1292544988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I unzipped it into a sandbox, avast doesn't showed anything after the scan, it contains a world folder, with usual chunk folders but some strange text/nonextension files" <-- apparently dotfiles are viruses now
< 1292545020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Avast crashed near the end when it was scanning those files, so i dont know, Dont wanna risk putting it into my minecraft saves folder. Might steal mah account D:"
< 1292545029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The stupidity of this place is literally unmatched and unbounded.
< 1292545067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/8152/31306982.png I have no idea how this image is meant to verify that the poster is not the original creator.
< 1292545130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL wtf, one of the people has this in their signature http://www.spa.org/images/stories/logos/468x60_tag.gif
< 1292545132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously??
< 1292545134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :advertising a piracy hotline?
< 1292545142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S 5 AM DO YOU KNOW WHERE YOUR SOFTWARE IS?
< 1292545167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"my theroy is he stolen this from another creator and is trying to get unfair gratitude/money (i hate donate buttons) from it."
< 1292545191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[    ScottyDoesKnow wrote:You guys do realize that you can only get viruses from certain types of files right? Next somebody will post a text file and you guys will be like "ON NOEZ I'M NOT DOWNLOADING YOUR VIRUZES"
< 1292545191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not true. Text files can contain commands to delete system32 or something else that is vital.]]
< 1292545195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is so hilarious
< 1292545197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a trainwreck
< 1292545199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't stop watching
< 1292545445 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah, despite that... enigma is playable
< 1292545455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Enigma is a wonderful game and ais523 knows that more than anyone else.
< 1292545459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a TERRIBLE trailer :P
< 1292545471 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i played oxyds when i was kid
< 1292545518 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehy ais523 ?
< 1292545521 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why*
< 1292545532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: he's made some levels, including ones that implement other games, with actual AI
< 1292545538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :included in Enigma
< 1292545542 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292545545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone else = anyone else in here.
< 1292545551 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Good, my rent is killing me. :P
< 1292545555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: he also single-handedly wrestled a bear to death
< 1292545560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: Oh no, he's not going to help with that.
< 1292545570 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: hehe, same
< 1292545573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: He just wants to watch you sleep so that if the server goes down, he can breathe in your face until you wake up to fix it.
< 1292545673 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... disturbing. I might not sleep this night. :P
< 1292545713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: It's okay... he'll tuck you in silently.
< 1292545717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a ninja, except creepy.
< 1292546003 0 :Goosey!~goose124@99-60-156-25.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292546054 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292546145 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925351908.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292546248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: WHOOPS LOOK AT THAT http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm301/r3ynor/plateau8.png in-air minecarts in single-player survival game
< 1292546250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :circa august
< 1292546253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess mobs don't destroy it
< 1292547742 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292548002 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-56-80.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292548204 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1292548554 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-56-80.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292548658 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292548692 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292548742 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1292548968 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1292549434 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292549884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: fizzie: Better Grass + Better Light + Far rendering distance + Fancy graphics + 128x128 Sanguine texture pack = oh god it is so pretty but my GPU hates me forever
< 1292550164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the ROU is pretty
< 1292550308 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok what the heck does ROU mean
< 1292550343 0 :p_q!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-1176440074.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292550358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Rapid Offensive Unit apparently. it's a type of ship from the Culture
< 1292550374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PH built a gigantic scale replica (200 blocks long, 1 block ~= 1 m^3)
< 1292550389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of cobblestone.
< 1292550392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :floating in the air, no less.
< 1292550397 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1292550422 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292550436 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can defy gravity in minecraft?
< 1292550459 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION <- not a player, obviously

< 1292550808 0 :p_q!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1292550830 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292550997 0 :p_q!~poiuy_qwe@69.157.46.148 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292551340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes
< 1292551344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: unless it's sand, or gravel
< 1292551356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: in which case gravity applies because obviously, the more granular something is, the more easily it falls
< 1292551366 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292551378 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_obviously_
< 1292551379 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292551471 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder how much better it would look if there was also triangular and pyramidal blocks...
< 1292551503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: VIOLATING THE PURITY
< 1292551513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: (Admittedly we have half-high blocks and doors and buttons and switches and torches :P)
< 1292552045 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granular objects get teared apart much more easily by gravitational tidal forces... :-)
< 1292552129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: See, it's obviously logical.
< 1292552132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: This is why cobblestone floats.
< 1292552134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also dirt.
< 1292552139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dirt is, uh, less granular than sand and gravel.
< 1292552140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP QUESTIONING
< 1292552149 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fridge logic...
< 1292552246 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even ordinary planets can generate powerful enough tidal forces to rip apart objects that aren't solid...
< 1292552322 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the forces from gravitational gradient are greater than object self-gravity).
< 1292552380 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292552660 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100m "rubble pile" of 10cm rocks would become about billion fragments if fragmented...
< 1292553059 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying some scenarios in Earth impact effects program: "Max wind velocity: 637 m/s" "Sound Intensity: 117 dB (May cause ear pain)".
< 1292553217 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :600+ m/s wind would essentially destry anything on its path. 100m/s for tornado would be in EF5 (Total destruction) catagory...
< 1292553376 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uuuh, damn, that's not far from being an actual shockwave from an explosion.
< 1292553430 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See if you can get it up to 194 dB.
< 1292553446 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the maximum possible sound pressure in air at 1 atm)
< 1292553449 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq
< 1292553548 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Peak overpressure 40.3bar, peak wind 1590m/s, peak sound intensity 132dB...
< 1292553606 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :67bar, 2070m/s, 137dB...
< 1292553662 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :111bar, 2670m/s, 141dB... I don't think this is going to go much higher...
< 1292553823 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... Current dB drag racing record is 180.5dB...
< 1292554430 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292557512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i need an opinion
< 1292557521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is it okay if object bodies are limited to 2 gigabytes? :D
< 1292557533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it'd probably be fine limited to 64k, since objects are always pretty darn small
< 1292557538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 32-bit is Future Proof(TM).
< 1292557553 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah no one cares about fat objects anyway
< 1292557601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thought ais523 had a near normal sleep schedule

< 1292557751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no way :)
< 1292557758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he's been on american time, before
< 1292557767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: IIRC just because of collaborating with an American on something
< 1292557774 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1292557780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also as you've probably seen he has a tendency to be at work at 9pm :P
< 1292557818 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said sleep schedule, not work schedule
< 1292557864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right, just saying
< 1292558587 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normal sleep schedules are overrated.
< 1292558592 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very
< 1292558612 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The closest I've been to "normal" the past couple years is going to bed a bit after midnight.
< 1292558613 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm happy with my sleep schedule of "go to bed whenever. wake up whenever"
< 1292558626 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've pulled at least an all-nighter a week
< 1292558630 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is actually so astonishingly close to normal that you can actually interact with people IRL with ease doing it.
< 1292558645 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda odd that I've been able to do it regularly.
< 1292558649 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more if you count going to bed at 5-6am an all-nighter
< 1292558667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: my problem is that i have terrible akrasia wrt going to bed so i end up tired all the time
< 1292558670 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: um i consider "a bit after midnight" within normal range.
< 1292558673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also waking up when it's dark or near it depresses me
< 1292558693 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, so do I
< 1292558702 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rarely wake up when it's dark though
< 1292558707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: solution: better living through chemistry! remind me to buy that melatonin sometime.
< 1292558724 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION slaps elliott

< 1292558786 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION either forgot or didn't dare to ask the doctor about melatonin yesterday

< 1292558817 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on the plus side, i seem not to have diabetes.  yay!
< 1292558820 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's just at the very *edge* of normal, though.
< 1292559044 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it looks like some people are migrating from r/programming to r/coding
< 1292559091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: just like they did when /r/coding first came around; but there's always been a strong air of anti-Haskellism on /r/coding from what I've seen
< 1292559098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a focus on "practical" shit
< 1292559103 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1292559117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it may be getting better. will have to see.
< 1292559119 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hasn't been to r/coding himself

< 1292559133 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who gives a shit about practical? It should be about being interesting!
< 1292559137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: e.g. bonch was one of the first users and he's the one behind the Haskell-post-drinking-game spam he put on every haskell post he could find
< 1292559148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAKE A DRINK / FOR EVERY HASKELL LINK or something
< 1292559151 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's practical and interesting, awesome. If it's completely impractical and interesting, also awesome!
< 1292559152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then "Here's to another"
< 1292559152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC
< 1292559238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I had an article to write, but the only word processor I could find on my iMac was TextEdit, essentially a stripped-down version of Notepad." --Reviewer, about OS X, failing to note that TextEdit is vastly more powerful than Notepad, and also not noting that Windows ships with no word processor.
< 1292559245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAIR AND BALANCED, STRAIGHT FROM THE HUFFINGTON POST
< 1292559256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It didn't take long to become frustrated with the iMac mouse too. It limped across my desk, the "on" switch, which is located on the belly of the mouse, scraping the mahogany of my desk as it went."
< 1292559259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also he can't afford a mouse pad.
< 1292559269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I booted up my bank account before realizing the Mac keyboard had no number pad"
< 1292559274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or select the other keyboard option. Or plug in a USB one.
< 1292559277 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Windows ships with Wordpad, which actually *is* a word processor.
< 1292559282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Neither did Ipswitch FTP, my file-uploader."
< 1292559284 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fairly basic one, but that's beside the point.
< 1292559288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor can he, apparently, use another FTP app.
< 1292559294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: TextEdit is a word processor too.
< 1292559298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has font settings, line spacing, etc.
< 1292559304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RTF-native, like WordPad.
< 1292559318 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: heh i just looked at r/coding and two of the top ten links are about haskell :D
< 1292559320 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, sure enough, it's essentially on par with Wordpad.
< 1292559323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"My .flv and .mkv files triggered only error messages, and some of my .mpg clips opened to blank screens."
< 1292559330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE WINDOWS SUPPORTS .MKV OUT OF THE BOX AND I CAN'T DOWNLOAD PERIAN
< 1292559343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I opened Mac's Thunderbird, and my jaw dropped again. The font on every email was so small, I was going to need the Hubble telescope just to answer my morning mail."
< 1292559345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck
< 1292559351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just bought it looking for things to complain about.
< 1292559354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: lawl
< 1292559357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the only OS that does media playback out of the box is... Linux distros.
< 1292559370 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, *general* support for it.
< 1292559372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hmm? My Slackware install plays your .mkvs not. :P
< 1292559381 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: True, it depends on the distro.
< 1292559397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There were two obvious solutions: For the next few years I could type every letter in 16-point font, then decrease the font size just before sending it, or I could decrease the screen's radically high resolution. I sighed, realizing this was yet another Mac complication for a function my PC simply performed without fuss."
< 1292559406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JOURNALISM: It's when you complain about high PPI screens.
< 1292559423 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But... Yeah, it's usually at least a bit of a pain to get support for non-WMV or MPEG on Windows or non-Quicktime or MPEG on Mac OS.
< 1292559425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I found the screen settings and slid the resolution bar down one notch. Suddenly everything was fuzzy. The blood vessels in my eyes began to constrict again."
< 1292559427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called LCDs.
< 1292559437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The final straw came when Mac's Firefox took me to my website. To my horror, all the spacing was askew, the graphics tossed left and right like the wreckage of a hurricane. I asked myself: As a web designer, how can I design web pages when I can't see what 90 percent of my viewers are seeing?"
< 1292559441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One might -- and bear with me here --
< 1292559446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blame your website rather than WebKit.
< 1292559462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh and _the_ top link doesn't mention haskell ... but it is an _oleg_ link :D
< 1292559473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's what we need!! /r/oleg
< 1292559479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: s/WebKit/Gecko/ He *said* Firefox, did he not?
< 1292559487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh indeed :D
< 1292559500 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... Also, couldn't he just *set the DPI for his monitor right*?
< 1292559503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if you could, wouldn't you just read oleg all day.
< 1292559515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's a built-in display, and OS X doesn't really support setting the ppi.
< 1292559518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so. he has like. half a point.
< 1292559528 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Okay, that's kinda stupid.
< 1292559537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (the "plan" is to get all of OS X's graphics scalable or something and then turn on automatic ppi detection so that /everything/ scales properly)
< 1292559543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's not like apple would ship a half-done solution ;)
< 1292559547 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But I'm suspecting *he's* the one being stupid.
< 1292559567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[For a second I thought, well, I could load Parallels, the Mac OS program that allows you to run Windows applications on your iMac. But that plan was squashed fast. Before I could complete Parallels' installation, it asked for a copy of the Windows CD. I shook my head in disbelief: where the hell am I going to get a copy of the Windows CD?]]
< 1292559575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Macs are bad because I don't know where I can buy Windows.
< 1292559576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's not like a PPI issue is going to be Mac OS's fault.
< 1292559578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What.
< 1292559596 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run Windows on a very high PPI screen and everything is about the same.
< 1292559606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm returning my iMac, then headed to Best Buy to snag a PC, one four-times faster than my current computer and $400 cheaper than that iMac."
< 1292559614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this one will fall apart seven times faster, too!
< 1292559623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'll spend the difference on a video editing program, a new haircut and a first-rate pair of swing dancing shoes."
< 1292559623 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that unless you have the very latest version, it'll look like shit if you change your setting to match your display!
< 1292559626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am going to punch you in the testicles.
< 1292559672 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, so he doesn't know the difference between decent-quality hardware and the cheapest shit that still works, either?
< 1292559673 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: um no.
< 1292559684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why not.
< 1292559703 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to mention that he... Can't buy a copy of Windows?
< 1292559715 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like that's *niche*.
< 1292559717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that article has managed to piss me off to the point where it's actually increased my already-present niggling desire to buy one of those shiny new MacBook Airs :D
< 1292559721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to put Ubuntu on)
< 1292559724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go to any store that sells software.
< 1292559731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (now is the time to convince me not to, by the way)
< 1292559742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Only if you buy me one. :P
< 1292559796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm sorry, only one of us can have a 1.32 kg, 0.11-0.68 inch high, 13" 1440x900, 2.13 GHz Core 2 Duo with 256 GiB of SSD storage and a Nvidia GeForce 320M GPU. And ~6-7 hours battery life.
< 1292559803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a multitouch glass trackpad.
< 1292559818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no fucking Ethernet port so they swindle you out of the money for the USB 2 adapter for it. :p
< 1292559829 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sucks for you, doesn't it?
< 1292559830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Admittedly, it is thinner than an Ethernet cable at all points.)
< 1292559831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1292559842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it can only do about 80 Mbit ethernet because of USB 2 but really who cares
< 1292559847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have other computers to LAN with :P
< 1292559848 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because reading much oleg would make my brain hurt just as much as anyone else's
< 1292559870 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Uh, USB 2 is 480 Mb/s nominal.
< 1292559879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well, it doesn't manage more than 80 Mbit :P
< 1292559881 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Surely it can sustain 100 Mb/s.
< 1292559884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's 100 Mbit ethernet only
< 1292559887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: dunno why 80, oh well
< 1292559898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's actually a network adapter encased in plastic, since the motherboard doesn't even have a PHY
< 1292559930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the machine, the ethernet adapter, and the USB optical drive total to £1,599.02, which is really a ridiculous figure considering this machine cost about £500 :)
< 1292559940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's shiny and thin and gaaah logical brain functions disabled.
< 1292559946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hurt or AWESOME
< 1292559955 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"USB optical drive"? Who needs such outmoded media?
< 1292559968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OS X upgrades are not yet offered via USB stick afaik :P
< 1292559977 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck OS X.
< 1292559979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, it would save £65.
< 1292559987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You need OS X to upgrade the EFI. Also because of shiny.
< 1292560002 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck the Macbook Air, then.
< 1292560018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'll cut you a deal. Work on scapegoat for a few years with me and ais523, and I'll buy you the 11" model. 1.4 GHz processor, 2 GiB RAM, 64 GiB flash storage. £849!
< 1292560052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (Anyway, the next OS X updates will probably be available by the Steve Jobs Ego-Enhancing Spooge Factory, also known as the Mac App Store, so you shouldn't actually need an optical drive.)
< 1292560058 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But by that time I'll probably have a degree and good employment!
< 1292560247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, but you'll still be unable to bring yourself to buy a Mac.
< 1292560255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also, good employment: USA: job market: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
< 1292560270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Maybe we could get ais523 to somehow employ us to work on scapegoat.
< 1292560349 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I intend to expatriate.
< 1292560399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: World: Job market: HAHAHAHAHA
< 1292560442 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Funny, seems to me the rest of the world is merely in a recession, rather than trying its hardest to *ruin everything*.
< 1292560461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Recession.
< 1292560499 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION seems to be gainfully employed, and in the USA :P

< 1292560554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, but you have a jew nose and hats.
< 1292560556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also ties.
< 1292560560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq has none of these things.
< 1292560570 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what recession? 
< 1292560581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: JUST WAIT UNTIL YOU RUN OUT OF OIL
< 1292560583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST WAIT
< 1292560588 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hats are expensive, but I'd be happy to punch pikhq in the face, and you can get ties at any goodwill.
< 1292560589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE'LL GO TO WAR WITH YOU TO SEE IF YOU'RE LYING OR NOT
< 1292560603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No amount of punching can reach jewnose status :P
< 1292560675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Maybe if you committed suicide and also killed all the other jews, after punching pikhq in the face, he might have the biggest nose.
< 1292560677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But until then. No.
< 1292560723 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not size, it's shape.
< 1292560728 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, yeah, it's size :P
< 1292560731 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's mainly shape!
< 1292560866 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292560934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sort of like penises.
< 1292561166 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: hagb4rd
< 1292561167 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: we already passed peak oil, actually.  now the buzz is mainly about natural gas.
< 1292561239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: shut up.
< 1292561262 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and our ministers of finance have been fond of reminding us that despite oil and all, norway's largest amount of capital remains its workforce.
< 1292561348 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has a big nose, actually.

< 1292561417 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You guys also have the property of having things damned nice. I mean, aside from the weather, Norway sounds like an incredibly nice place to be.
< 1292561506 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, apart from being ... y'know ... Norway.
< 1292561547 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, like you're one to talk. You live in the same country as Palin.
< 1292561579 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And you live in the same country as Bush!
< 1292561585 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh God.
< 1292561623 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's my sword. I need to ritually remove a large portion of my digestive system, thereby causing death.
< 1292561660 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION imagines if bush had been born in japan instead.  scary.

< 1292561690 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mass suicide all over
< 1292561703 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Except Bush couldn't do as much there.
< 1292561714 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: If Japan goes all crazy and stuff, the world can just tell them to fuck off.
< 1292561726 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: If the US goes all crazy and stuff, well, there goes a country.
< 1292561750 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: only until japan develops the giant robots
< 1292561766 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, Japan with mechs would fuck us all.
< 1292561796 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(citation: half of all siȳônenn anime.)
< 1292561859 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i think it _would_ be nice if you used a transcription i could actually google :D
< 1292561893 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Fine, fine.
< 1292561895 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Shonen
< 1292561907 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just guessed that actually
< 1292561943 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternately, you could just learn the rules of Japanese orthography minus the glyphs. :P
< 1292561958 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is literally all that there is to my transcription scheme...)
< 1292561967 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1292562054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: please translate "desu" to your scheme so i can troll /classily/
< 1292562071 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tèsu
< 1292562279 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION listens to ナイトフィシングイズグッド  (NAITO HUĪSINNKÙ ISÙ KÙ'TÒ)[Night Fishing Is Good] by サカナクション (SAKANAKUSIȲONN)[Sakanaction] happily

< 1292562297 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION also wonders what's with the Engrish in the title

< 1292562317 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only problem with Japanese music: knowing English makes much of it painful.
< 1292562415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree night fishing is AWESOME
< 1292562431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Tis a good album.
< 1292562455 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of problems with the Japanese seem to come down to the fact that Japan wants to be America Jr.: All the America, None of the Fat!
< 1292562479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not really.
< 1292562495 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: At least, that explains absolutely *none* of the WTF factor you get from there.
< 1292562519 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there's a unique WTF factor of course, but that's combined with Americaphilia.
< 1292562539 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They actually have severe foreignphobia...
< 1292562547 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"OH GOD IT'S FROM OUT OF THE COUNTRY"
< 1292562584 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they have NIH to an extent that would shock zzo38.
< 1292562588 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just - like - America
< 1292562595 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, to the last part
< 1292562601 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who likes awful puns?
< 1292562618 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's a rhetorical question)
< 1292562626 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: see latest xkcd
< 1292562658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it's xkcd, the ID is above 400, and Randall is off his five-minute-comics-that-are-actually-funny streak.
< 1292562665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no reason to type in the keys x k c d . c o m enter
< 1292562670 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Do Americans only usually take tours of foreign countries in highly coördinated tours with swarms of fellow Americans?
< 1292562683 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Cause, uh, that's kinda a social norm in Japan.
< 1292562686 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you do not like awful puns.  oerjan does.  that should be reason enough for him.
< 1292562691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :verified terrible
< 1292562697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: even oerjan recognises how bad xkcd is :)
< 1292562707 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well
< 1292562709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndrome
< 1292562717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_syndrome is interesting)
< 1292562727 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, Americans just refuse to acknowledge that other countries exist.
< 1292562729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stendhal_syndrome
< 1292562743 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as awful puns go, this one made me giggle slightly more than his usually do, so i'm going to give him half credit
< 1292562753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, someone on a forum suggested using Wikipedia to predict the day of the week future dates would fall on
< 1292562759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't a calendar work better?
< 1292562767 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or do it in your head
< 1292562772 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pretty simple calculation
< 1292562799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_terrorists_have_won wikipedia confirms ir
< 1292562800 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Okay, true, the US kinda has it bad, too.
< 1292562800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it
< 1292562810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: better than Doomsday imo
< 1292562811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292562821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i might implement a cal(1) that does that
< 1292562835 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But *dear God they create their own everything* when it comes to tech for no good reason.
< 1292562839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm reading about the efforts to crack the RNG in the new Pokémon games; they created something crazy with internal timings, DS ID numbers, MAC addresses, SHA-1 hashing, and to-the-frame timings, and yet people /still/ cracked it by disassembling the code)
< 1292562864 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Link?
< 1292562878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i bet reverse engineers would hate it if companies just gave up and didn't obfuscate anything
< 1292562880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's the fun gone
< 1292562881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1292562890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i think i pinged you a few times in the log
< 1292562892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't recall
< 1292562894 0 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292562899 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Smogon Univeristy's RNG research threads
< 1292562917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if there's a single post summarising yet
< 1292562929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:45:21  ais523: is it okay if object bodies are limited to 2 gigabytes? :D
< 1292562929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:45:33  actually it'd probably be fine limited to 64k, since objects are always pretty darn small
< 1292562929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:45:38  but 32-bit is Future Proof(TM).
< 1292562976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: only object I can see getting that large is a binary blob which is being stored per-file rather than per-byte (the only two units of measurement that make sense for a binary with no format data)
< 1292562998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, I'll go with 48-bit or 64-bit prolly "just in case"
< 1292563002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remind me to, please :P
< 1292563003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just...
< 1292563007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :===HEY YOU, ELLIOTT
< 1292563009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bignum?
< 1292563011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no
< 1292563015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :===HEY, LISTEN!===
< 1292563015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :===HEY, LISTEN!===
< 1292563015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :===HEY, LISTEN!===
< 1292563016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :===HEY, LISTEN!===
< 1292563023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, that should make me recoil enough to pay attention
< 1292563028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in a binary file format?
< 1292563036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: basically pointless, show me a >64-bit-length file :)
< 1292563039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: where did you pick up zelda memes from?
< 1292563061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, in a suitable encoding, bignums would generally be less than 64 bits long
< 1292563061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey listen is more an everywhere meme than a zelda-specific one... also i /have/ played some of the zeldas (plural!)
< 1292563078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very far, admittedly, but enough to want to claw navi's eyeballs out. did it have eyeballs? i forget.
< 1292563088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Ocarina of Time was what started the meme in the first place
< 1292563109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it spread from there
< 1292563126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I was watching a video of someone glitching their way through the whole game (tool-assisted)
< 1292563126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is
< 1292563139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it turns out that the infinite sword glitch can be triggered off anything that displays a message
< 1292563144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including Navi's advice
< 1292563155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so someone actually found a use for it in a maximum-speed glitched speedrun, which was hilarious
< 1292563170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292563186 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : quintopia: even oerjan recognises how bad xkcd is :) <-- NO I DON'T!  ER WAIT...
< 1292563194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: someone should make a pokemon rom hack that lets you DISABLE ALL THE FUCKING REPEATED TEXT
< 1292563199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like telling you what a pokecentre is every fucking time
< 1292563211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it restore my pokemon to full health! really! i didn't know that. thanks for the tip.
< 1292563218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we hope to see you again!
< 1292563228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they actually fixed that for black and white when they realised the implications)
< 1292563257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ooh, an interesting theory
< 1292563268 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Probably the most annoying thing about Pokémon is the very slow walk speed.
< 1292563286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's that the crazy generation method, because it's based off internal timings, is meant to detect whether you had an action replay connected when you caught the Pokémon or not
< 1292563286 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's such fucking filler.
< 1292563290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: my finger is in a permanent press-B-down position
< 1292563302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thumb
< 1292563303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they actually fixed that for HGSS, there's a toggle-permanent-B on the touchscreen
< 1292563311 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ?
< 1292563315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "run"
< 1292563317 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because it's designed to be playable dpad-and-touchscreen
< 1292563319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh, i just realised the implications of "we hope to see you again"
< 1292563322 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ...
< 1292563325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what
< 1292563335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: When did they add that?
< 1292563338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i haven't played anything past sapphire 'cuz i'm OLDSCHOOL
< 1292563339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: only available from 3rd gen onwards, if you're wondering how you missed it all this time
< 1292563347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right i sort of haven't played first gen :)
< 1292563359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or uh, anything but sapphire, i think i played another one of the generations at some point
< 1292563364 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The last gen I played was 2nd.
< 1292563367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292563379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's an unlockable in all the games in question, but it normally unlocks very early
< 1292563383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about when walking everywhere is getting old
< 1292563397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can't unlock it in previous gens, woop, guess i won't be playing them
< 1292563417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait i have played diamond
< 1292563418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the transport situation gets better from gen to gen
< 1292563419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit
< 1292563424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but strangely, better in the later games of a gen to the earlier
< 1292563440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. you can normally bicycle through guardhouses in the later games in a gen, but not the earlier games
< 1292563447 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, with first/second gen you can crank up the emulation speed.
< 1292563452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a nice timesaver as you don't have to get back on the bike again
< 1292563453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :D
< 1292563459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how odd
< 1292563475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: prediction: next gen pokemon will be partly procedurally-generated
< 1292563480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i say prediction, I mean hope)
< 1292563490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: shall I be naive enough to assume you're referring to Pokémon Stadium's link-to-early-gen-gamepak-and-play-at-enhanced-speed feature?
< 1292563500 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That *or* a ROM.
< 1292563506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can tell it's bad if they released an unlockable in an entirely different game just to play it faster
< 1292563540 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, in Pokémon Stadium you could play an early-gen game emulated on the N64. And crank it up to 8x speed.
< 1292563544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no no clearly pikhq ripped the ROM from his actual legal cart
< 1292563546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because people do that
< 1292563549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the time.
< 1292563555 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Stadium 1 only did gen 1, Stadium 2 did gens 1 and 2.)
< 1292563568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess what's a shitty game
< 1292563569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CORRECT
< 1292563571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pokemon colosseum
< 1292563586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, colosseum's one of the best of the Pokémon games, from what I've seen of it
< 1292563590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although admittedly I haven't actually played it
< 1292563596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: really? i've played it and got so bored that I just stopped
< 1292563603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292563604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without even getting anywhere
< 1292563607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, much
< 1292563614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or if you go by Japanese names: Stadium 2 only did gen 1, Stadium Gold & Silver did gens 1 and 2.)
< 1292563625 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and Stadium 1 sucked)
< 1292563625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what's jap Stadium 1
< 1292563626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has an actual plot, an actual AI, and boss battles that are actually interesting
< 1292563638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe i shoulda sticked with it
< 1292563640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*stuck
< 1292563642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or *sticked :P
< 1292563663 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It only had 42 Pokémon coded in, and was crazy-hard.
< 1292563664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, pokemon would be nice with a keyboard
< 1292563667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :single keys for attacks
< 1292563678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how it works in HGSS, using the touchpad
< 1292563687 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it was originally released for the 64DD, which bombed.
< 1292563690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, that works even in DPP; it's one of the few touchpad controls they actually got right there
< 1292563854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, I'm the sort of person who ignores most apparently interesting Pokémon news
< 1292563860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then goes all crazy over Mental Herb blocking Taunt
< 1292563891 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, I'm the sort of person that hasn't followed the series much at all. Though... Not for any real reason other than not doing so.
< 1292563912 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's still a decent RPG series.
< 1292563923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they removed all the dialogue
< 1292563935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and made it less irritating to avoid trainers stairing at you with their eyes causing legally-binding fights to the death
< 1292563941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then made walking take like 0 seconds
< 1292563945 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Okay, true, almost all of the dialogue is pointless.
< 1292563946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd play the shit out of it.
< 1292563946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually, that happens because of running
< 1292563952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: really?
< 1292563954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for randomly-facing trainers, you can sneak past them, but only by walking
< 1292563955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: today I learned!
< 1292563963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for fixed-facing trainers, there's not much you can do about it
< 1292563964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, right, i know that
< 1292563966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than walk round them
< 1292563971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the fixed ones i hate, sometimes you can't
< 1292563972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that usually isn't possible
< 1292563972 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ... YOU CAN AVOID THOSE BASTARDS IN LATER GENS?
< 1292563978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hahaha
< 1292563981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck timing it, though
< 1292563989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they love turning around to look in your direction JUST as you start to move away
< 1292563999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because you're running, it's 100% guaranteed if you run
< 1292564001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK THEM SO MUCH
< 1292564007 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :walking or cycling, it's just random
< 1292564008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, when walking
< 1292564010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1292564013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the battle options should be
< 1292564014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fight
< 1292564015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bag
< 1292564016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run
< 1292564017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pokemon
< 1292564021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :punch the little bastard
< 1292564027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least for the stupid bug guys
< 1292564033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do they ever think they'll win
< 1292564034 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The god damned bug catchers.
< 1292564045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HURR I CATCH BUG IT'S GONNA DEFEND ITSELF 'GAINST YOUR SWATTER
< 1292564054 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My Mewtwo will still kick your ass.
< 1292564070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, don't knock bug catchers, their purpose is for providing XP to speedrunners
< 1292564087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most Pokémon speedruns ignore all non-mandatory trainers but the bug catchers near the start
< 1292564092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and in R/B, the trainer before Brock)
< 1292564101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, if they don't glitch past him)
< 1292564108 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://tasvideos.org/1678M.html What do you mean, "XP"?
< 1292564115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY MISSINGNO DEFEATS ALL
< 1292564124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although really
< 1292564124 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I ♥ using Missingno.
< 1292564127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i primarily fight with magikarp
< 1292564127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: which TAS is that? the one that doesn't catch any Pokémon at all?
< 1292564133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever fought those fishers who
< 1292564134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even collect the first one
< 1292564137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally just have three magikarps
< 1292564140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pathetic
< 1292564143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and really kind of sad
< 1292564145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ofc, great source of speed EVs
< 1292564149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well THAT one just bobbed up and down a bit
< 1292564150 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The one that corrupts the save data to skip from the very first room to the end credits.
< 1292564150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rather easier than farming Starlys
< 1292564153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm sure this one will do something more!!
< 1292564155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do they even bother
< 1292564159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: very first room? it was obsoleted
< 1292564164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely they should try and NOT look at you since apparently people who lose matches PASS OUT
< 1292564166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it turned out skipping from the second room was slightly faster
< 1292564173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have to be magically teleported to a glorified mechanical vet
< 1292564180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it your house, i forget
< 1292564181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vet i think
< 1292564182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nope, they even flavoured that away later on
< 1292564183 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh, that does leave his bedroom, doesn't it.
< 1292564187 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goes downstairs!
< 1292564189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yep
< 1292564193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they did? THEY ARE DESTROYING EVERYTHING I HOLD DEAR, how did they do it
< 1292564201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :resetting the game in the middle of a save
< 1292564205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean
< 1292564206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know the game tells you not to? that's why
< 1292564208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: nope, they even flavoured that away later on
< 1292564211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292564212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i've tried that tons!!
< 1292564214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it always just like
< 1292564216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :broke my save
< 1292564217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did nothing
< 1292564219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so disappointing.
< 1292564222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried all kinds of timing
< 1292564227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's flavoured as you running back to a poké center, protecting the fainted Pokémon from further harm
< 1292564233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also ripping the cart now, a favourite of mine
< 1292564234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*out
< 1292564245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tends to make the soundtrack glitch music temporarily
< 1292564245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be hilarious in, say, the Distortion World
< 1292564247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: In the first gen, doing it during a trade would clone a Pokémon.
< 1292564256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: in the second gen too
< 1292564260 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both parties would have the first Pokémon and lose the second.
< 1292564264 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, second gen too.
< 1292564271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Emerald, you could do it by interrupting the save caused before a link battle tower battle
< 1292564277 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used that a lot with my brother. Screw you, Pidgy!
< 1292564283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ruby and sapphire have no known exploitable glitches of the sort)
< 1292564287 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, Pidgey.
< 1292564295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in diamond and pearl, you can do it during the save after depositing a Pokémon on the GTS
< 1292564300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also do the same thing with the boxes in gen 2.
< 1292564319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the DP cloning method doesn't even lose a Pokémon, it just creates an extra copy out of thin air)
< 1292564381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should really leave, like, now
< 1292564387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1292564387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to sleep?
< 1292564392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently so
< 1292564409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Butbut hǫke'tomonnsutâ!
< 1292564768 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know POKESAV can also be used to modify the game state information. It seems to not always work though.
< 1292564832 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know if POKESAV is wrong or if eepinator is broken.
< 1292565088 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once made up how you can play Pokemon Red using only a 8x8 ASCII display. It is enough, in fact you can display more information than Pokemon Red did itself, and with only 7 buttons (push only 1 button at once) you can do many actions much quicker actually, too.
< 1292565202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pokesav'ed Pokémon can be detected unless it's done really well, it doesn't generate all the data according to the algorithm Pokémon itself uses
< 1292565230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which Pokémon games do you play (emulated, simulated or on the cartridge), btw? just red/blue?
< 1292565257 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Emulated I have played Red. On the cartridge I have played Pearl.
< 1292565270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting
< 1292565289 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't play multiplayer over the internet.
< 1292565294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mostly use a simulator to play Platinum (the simulator lets you set any legal team you want, and play against other people, using an independent codebase)
< 1292565298 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realized many broken things in these games.
< 1292565304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the AI isn't good enough to let single-player work
< 1292565338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proof is that I beat the final, bonus boss of Pokémon HeartGold with a team of level 5, unevolved Pokémon
< 1292565360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because training up my main squad to a level where it could win would have taken too long
< 1292565421 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.12/20101026210630]
< 1292565434 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Did you know that an 8x8 ASCII display (no colors, no reverse video) with only 7 buttons (without pushing multiple buttons at once) is enough to play Pokemon Red and display even more information at once than Pokemon Red does?
< 1292565441 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Uh, what?
< 1292565486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it wouldn't surprise me
< 1292565502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it just takes a bit of strategy and a bit of lateral thinking
< 1292565510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :together with some effects that are new in 4th gen, admittedly
< 1292565522 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Did 1st gen even *use* select?
< 1292565527 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Also I have won Pokemon Pearl with only six of Ditto with no attacks and all zero IVs. But I had a lot of potions though.
< 1292565544 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It used the SELECT button to reorder items only, I think.
< 1292565549 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile I just used a GTS-traded maxed Mew to beat Diamond
< 1292565549 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, so it did.
< 1292565562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaah, Mew.
< 1292565567 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So cute ^_^
< 1292565571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was likely hacked, even if it had legal stats
< 1292565574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what nature?
< 1292565580 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it was hacked
< 1292565581 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umm
< 1292565588 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno, I forget
< 1292565609 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It had perfect IVs for attack and special attack, with the extra point on speed
< 1292565616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a Pokémon legality checker, that told you things like what time and date to set the DS to to catch the Pokémon if it was legal
< 1292565619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TLUL: that's EV, not IV
< 1292565628 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Unless the game is as glitchy as gen 1 was, probably hacked. :)
< 1292565631 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right
< 1292565634 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1292565637 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The IVs were all 31s
< 1292565638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IVs can be maxed in all six stats at once, under certain circumstances
< 1292565641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292565646 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in the thing I wrote about 8x8 ASCII Pokemon Red, it used all seven buttons for nearly all things. In battle mode, up/down/left/right use an attack (there are four of them), A is ITEM, B is SHIFT, C is SURRENDER.
< 1292565705 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I ever write that game, I will write the VM first and make it as a game in the VM.
< 1292565713 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone have a torrent file for Hazard's OSX cracks? The only one I can find is for tracker.thepiratebay.org, which was shut down
< 1292565721 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now resolves to localhost
< 1292565731 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which confused the hell out of me for a couple of seconds :P
< 1292565744 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I have httpd running.
< 1292565746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TLUL: no asking for ROMs/crack data on Freenode, it's against the rules
< 1292565748 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TLUL: Well, you should still have the infohash, making the torrent still good.
< 1292565776 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was some restrictions though: Item names and attack names are all no more than five letters long. Pokemon species names don't exist, they are three-digits numbers. Nicknames are up to two letters long.
< 1292565787 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically I'm not asking for it, I'm asking if someone happens to have the hash of it.
< 1292565790 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two loopholes there.
< 1292565802 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TLUL: The torrent file possesses the hash.
< 1292565808 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bamf.
< 1292565966 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my opinion there are many broken things in the Pokemon games and a "Limited" mode could be added to correct them.
< 1292565980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well, I have a completely legit quint-flawless Arceus
< 1292565984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, with an imperfect nature
< 1292565998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: they might have fixed them in later games
< 1292566001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Mew".
< 1292566011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Arceus is also an event mon, if you hadn't noticed
< 1292566021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually went and attended the event
< 1292566026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, so it is.
< 1292566029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it happened to be nearby
< 1292566029 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck event mons.
< 1292566030 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have played some games and heard of some of them and the newer games tend to be even more broken.
< 1292566103 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, playing them multiplayer, the brokenness can be used on both sides
< 1292566113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although some things are banned because they make the game unbalanced, unfun, or too luck-dependent
< 1292566120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like putting more than one enemy Pokémon to sleep at a time
< 1292566133 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, yes. I am refering to single-player mode.
< 1292566133 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and causing a tie is a loss
< 1292566141 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one's important
< 1292566154 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1292566160 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's a strategic move!
< 1292566166 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly why
< 1292566170 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, how do you cause a tie? Make everything die at once?
< 1292566176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1292566186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: actually, depending on the tournament, it depends on /how/ you cause a tie
< 1292566193 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh?
< 1292566196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in tPCI's official tournaments, even dying to the recoil of your own attack is enough to make you lose
< 1292566217 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hadn't thought of that
< 1292566218 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing that can be done is selecting SET battle mode. In SHIFT battle mode, the player gets an advantage to shift for free while the opponent gets no such advantage. I always played in SET mode. But the game is still very broken.
< 1292566224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in most tournaments run by other people, dying to the recoil of your own attack, if you KO the enemy's last Pokémon in the process, is a win unless it was selfdestruct/explosion
< 1292566239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: set mode's the mode used for all tournaments
< 1292566243 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that covers the Destiny Bond case
< 1292566261 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about Perish Song?
< 1292566285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure there's a ruling for the non-official tournaments, as it comes up so rarely
< 1292566295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in tPCI's tournaments, it's a loss for whoever used perish song
< 1292566306 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, Pokemon is losing interest to me
< 1292566315 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: SET mode is automatically selected in multiplayer mode I think. In multiplayer mode, maybe it should have also draft mode and betting and doubling cube and riichi and dora and low PP starting, and money for usable items and so on.
< 1292566316 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's gettin gsilly
< 1292566334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: money for usable items would be unbalanced, it's too easy to grind
< 1292566349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5th gen has an optional mode making you gain points that can be spent on items every turn
< 1292566360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :starting at 0
< 1292566375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course, from 2nd gen onwards every Pokémon gets to bring a hold item into battle
< 1292566380 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, you have a certain amount of money at the beginning of the tournament, and from that you must select all items and all pokemons too. You start with no pokemons at the beginning of the tournament either.
< 1292566387 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sort of like a Magic: the Gathering booster draft)
< 1292566388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292566392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there have been tournaments a bit like that
< 1292566401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but good teambuilding is normally considered more interesting
< 1292566417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd play you at a diamond/pearl/platinum game online, if you had a team to build
< 1292566418 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292566462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(normally, the way it's done is to agree on a list of banned Pokémon before the battle; there are some common banlists depending on what sort of power of play you want)
< 1292566492 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That is because it is Constructed. I want to play Limited.
< 1292566493 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The online gaming still interests me a little
< 1292566503 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I find that it's still getting too ridiculous
< 1292566516 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have better things to do
< 1292566519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the gaming itself is generally only a small subset of what's legal
< 1292566521 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like M:tG)
< 1292566526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the rest is just underpowered/useless
< 1292566534 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why Limited is fun
< 1292566536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I used to play M:tG, but gave up when they released a couple of bad sets in a row)
< 1292566546 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Mercadian Masques?
< 1292566552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, much later
< 1292566557 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kamigawa?
< 1292566558 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also want to play with low starting PP. And riichi.
< 1292566561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there's a Limited mode in Pokémon Platinum
< 1292566564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Lorwyn
< 1292566574 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, ha and blargh
< 1292566581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get to draft a team of 3 from a random 6 you start off with
< 1292566587 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Do you mean Battle Factory? That was also in Emerald.
< 1292566594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then after the battle, if you win, you get to swap one of yours with one of the opponent's
< 1292566595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes
< 1292566601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's slightly different between the two, though
< 1292566616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not really as fun as constructed because it's far too luck-based
< 1292566617 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1292566627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you get a bad initial selection, there's not a lot you can do aobut it
< 1292566629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*about
< 1292566638 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drafting solves that problem neatly
< 1292566645 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is for that reason much nicer than Sealed
< 1292566657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily
< 1292566671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best Pokémon in the selection will be drafted first, and some will be much better than others
< 1292566679 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a little bit of luck in draft, I guess
< 1292566688 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but skill is a far greater component
< 1292566692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. if you get an SD Garchomp or whatever, the opponent is very unlikely to have a counter in their small team
< 1292566708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drafting works well in M:tG, but only because the packs are so large and because a card can't win singlehandedly
< 1292566716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't work in Pokémon
< 1292566754 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need to establish conditions on movesets too - you could certainly do it if the 'packs' were built from a number of preconstructed pokemon, for instance
< 1292566776 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have other rules too for a multiplayer similar to Pokemon: That the gender is based on the total of the IVs (or the EVs, if you want) whether it is even or odd, and you are allowed to deduct one in order to increase the bet.
< 1292566784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how it's done in battle factory
< 1292566800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: gender doesn't work like that since 3rd gen
< 1292566816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it /is/ related to the IVs and nature, at least for legendaries with a random gender
< 1292566822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, umm, Heatran and nothing else
< 1292566858 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean to make it like that during the tournament. You can switch the gender between odd/even by betting an IV. And this changes many other things too, please.
< 1292566870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gender is almost irrelevant in competitive Pokémon
< 1292566878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because Attract is incredibly weak as a move, as is Captivate
< 1292566879 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also zzo38, what is Riichi?
< 1292566881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't affect anything else
< 1292566888 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(To be specific, three things at once: bet, IV, and gender.)
< 1292566890 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1292566927 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Riichi is a rule in mahjong that you can lock your hand (it can no longer be adjusted) and bet 1000 additional points (given to the winner), if you manage to win, you get 1 han yaku and ura dora.
< 1292566954 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh, thanks for clearing that up then
< 1292566965 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it /could/ be relevant in a very low-grade battle with Cute Charm
< 1292567003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: except that everything that gets Cute Charm gets something better as well
< 1292567012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. the Cleffa line would be insane to not use Magic Guard
< 1292567024 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, everything? never mind then
< 1292567041 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Again, it would be in Limited (draft) mode, as well as low starting PP. And you could adjust many other things in order to make everything to work together.
< 1292567065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, except Wigglytuff, who has no other optoin
< 1292567082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lopunny's only used for its alternate ability, likewise Delcatty
< 1292567093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Magic Guard is amazingly better on Clefable
< 1292567112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: actually, you seem to assume PP is unimportant at the full level
< 1292567113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't
< 1292567124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've won tens of games via PP stalling
< 1292567145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reducing starting PP would basically make stall an unusable tactic
< 1292567149 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't assume PP is unimportant.
< 1292567173 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4f25e.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292567204 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there is also items you get also with tournament money and drafting, such as ether.
< 1292567211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: wanting PP reduction sounds like you're assuming it's too high
< 1292567213 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And weather.
< 1292567231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and weather is overpowered enough just on a move or autoinduce ability
< 1292567236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :putting it on an item would be completely broken
< 1292567241 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It is a bit too high because often you use the same move all the time.
< 1292567261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: only sweepers do that, and only very rarely
< 1292567269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, they often switch out just to change move, because of Choice items
< 1292567300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're probably too used to playing against an AI that doesn't switch all the time
< 1292567350 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am talking about changing so many things that it then becomes almost an entirely different game.
< 1292567361 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why would you want to use Klutz?
< 1292567388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to protect yourself from enemies swapping items onto you
< 1292567394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to let you swap detrimental items onto them
< 1292567402 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292567415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :protection from detrimental items is important enough to make me seriously consider running Mail on a Pokémon competitively
< 1292567431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although Leftovers are likely better
< 1292567651 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By adding riichi, limited draft, low PP, many new move sets, dora indicators, rule changes per different tournaments, betting, odd/even gender with IV, item use, redouble, en passan, hit wicket, complex numbers...
< 1292567709 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logarithms
< 1292567713 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely logarithms
< 1292567978 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yakitori penalties, long match with many battles, each with a few rule changes applied, declare the innings closed, hex grid, cards to be used to select rules before each battle, promotion, river, imbalance betting...
< 1292568080 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how these things are going to work in this game?
< 1292568096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of them, no
< 1292568105 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Can you guess?
< 1292568118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it seems like you're planning to make it into a tactical game, though, where the Pokémon have a position on a grid
< 1292568131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'd be more like Pokémon Mystery Dungeon than the main series of games
< 1292568215 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But everything in these messages, I have listed some things, what things would you understand most and what suggestion, changes, question, confusing, go crazy, play game?
< 1292568255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say it wouldn't really be Pokémon any more
< 1292568273 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Also, it is 2 or 3 players game. Each game itself (no prior construction or things are permitted, like in Magic: the Gathering limited booster drafts).
< 1292568298 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes it isn't Pokemon game any more, it is new game with some similarities but almost completely different.
< 1292568373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect Pokémon would be more popular
< 1292568397 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it is strictly multiplayer. No single player mode is permitted.
< 1292568487 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to add dora indicators, like mahjong has, and Washizu mahjong, and betting like you can do in poker, even, and so on.
< 1292568614 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most people don't like Test cricket because it is not exciting. Pachinko with digital display is trying to make more exciting, but actually what it does is it gets in the way of the ball!
< 1292568627 0 :TLUL_!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292568628 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you agree with me about this?
< 1292568802 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292568859 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is your opinion about "Most people don't like Test cricket because it is not exciting. Pachinko with digital display is trying to make more exciting, but actually what it does is it gets in the way of the ball!"?
< 1292568999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think that sort of sport is better watched on TV, in a stadium you're too far from the action to really see what's going on
< 1292569159 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Whether it is on TV or not, I think Test cricket has better strategy (as well as simpler rules) but most people don't like it because it is not exciting. Other people like the game with the crowd screaming 100x loud and with fire, played in such a short time that you can't do anything important.
< 1292569161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's actually true of a lot of spectator sports.
< 1292569173 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think it telling that spectator sports only really took off with TV.
< 1292569243 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hątinnko is only exciting if you think funneling your cash directly into the yakusà is exciting.
< 1292569341 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I prefer with my own pachinko game, no digital display getting in the way of the ball (only the pins and holes affect the game), and nudging permitted.
< 1292569361 0 :Transcix!~Transcix@bas5-montreal02-1096555380.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1292569531 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Regardless of TV or not! Most people like to watch loud game with not enough time for important strategy, and with exciting to them, and they don't like to watch Test cricket.
< 1292569562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I note that chess is not a spectator sport.
< 1292569569 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1292569598 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, yes. Mostly, anyways. Some people do watch a chess match. But it is irrelevant.
< 1292569663 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but it's not exactly a big thing.
< 1292569807 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I note that I am not talking about chess. I am talking about Test cricket. It can be watched by spectators in the stadium or on television (I don't actually know how often you actually see it on television).
< 1292569838 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My point is just that chess is another strategic game that people don't usually watch.
< 1292569871 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OK. Now I understand your point.
< 1292570094 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, still! Even if it is the cricket game, there is different kind. Test cricket is the longest kind, and simplest kind, and the strategic kind.
< 1292570127 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many people like to watch the short game with loud crowd talking and lots of fire and complicated rules but no strategy.
< 1292570212 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you ever watched a cricket game? I have never, but I still prefer Test cricket.
< 1292570367 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, with chess it is different. There are many chess variants, some simple and some complicated, taking various amount of time to play, some with different board and equipment, but still just as good and strategic game.
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< 1292572502 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know in Pokemon Pearl you can pass your turn in a trainer battle with a pokeball? And you will not lose the pokeball by doing so.
< 1292572516 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Huh.
< 1292572539 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you can't ever suffer from zugzwang in Pokémon Pearl.
< 1292572559 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: I'm not sure that can come up, anyways)
< 1292572572 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes. In trainer battles in single-player mode, you cannot be zugzwang.
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< 1292572948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just Pearl?
< 1292573345 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: In Red, you will lose a pokeball from doing that, I think. In other games, I don't know.
< 1292573381 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, in Red you can have 2^8-1 pokeballs at will.
< 1292573397 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except in combat.
< 1292573558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: zugzwang definitely exists at least in multiplayer
< 1292573565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :final Pokémon PP stall is the classic example
< 1292573574 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah, but the AI is retarded.
< 1292573680 0 :atrapado!~rodrigo@193.144.79.241 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292573699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PP stalls can happen in single-player too, I suppose, but only by mistake
< 1292573833 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You can't use pokeballs in multiplayer!
< 1292573871 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is usable only in single-player mode, although their effect varies depending on wild or trainer.
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< 1292574574 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is better, Magic Set Editor or TeXnicard? Any comment about the license at the top of this file? http://sprunge.us/DadR
< 1292574660 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any suggestions for the Patterns and/or for the English?
< 1292575049 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or what specials could be supported?
< 1292575244 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.cards -> .tex,.mf; .mf -> .tfm,.*gf; .tex,.tfm -> .dvi; .dvi,.*gf -> .miff and ImageMagick command-line sequences; .miff -> .png
< 1292575385 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292580833 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hit another site that doesn't work due to bad IPv6 routing...
< 1292582846 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.02 /8s in APNIC pool (about 1 /8 to go...)
< 1292583002 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 986 240 addresses this month...
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< 1292590567 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292590822 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Abandonando
< 1292590868 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1292590998 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292591205 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not a very good sign.
< 1292591253 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292591313 0 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292591462 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, joined and left?
< 1292591473 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MC is crashing for some reason.
< 1292591481 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what error?
< 1292591500 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember. Probably NullPointerException.
< 1292591583 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to be mcmap.
< 1292591596 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, try again without it?
< 1292591603 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that what you did?
< 1292591662 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conclusion: it's not mcmap.
< 1292591695 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, still fails?
< 1292591709 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, were you near 4000,4000 ?
< 1292591723 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I had the same issue there yesterday evening, had to get ineiros to remove my player files
< 1292591743 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1292591744 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I was crafting TNT up there, placed it back in inventory. then crash
< 1292591759 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, maybe the map around there contains some invalid data or something
< 1292591759 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming that my inventory is gone, then?
< 1292591767 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it will be when you get reset yes
< 1292591772 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, not much to do about that
< 1292591775 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFF
< 1292591787 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, which is why you offload to chests often
< 1292591787 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, can you do something for me?
< 1292591800 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I'm not going up to that place if that is what you want
< 1292591808 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Check the chests in the ROU and Mt. Hoover; if there's 20-odd gunpowder there, it's OK.
< 1292591821 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, can do ROU, mt. hoover is too far
< 1292591844 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, this crash is due to you.
< 1292591849 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You owe me one.
< 1292591951 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, not due to me. Due to notch failing at coding
< 1292591963 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no gunpowder up in ROU
< 1292591968 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1292591994 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure I offloaded at Mt. Hoover anyway.
< 1292591998 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The string, though...
< 1292592084 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, presumably you could patch mcmap to filter the "offending" message
< 1292592113 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What "offending" message?
< 1292592123 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ineiros-quit had more to do with our shell-server doing "Broadcast message from root (pts/93) (Fri Dec 17 14:45:44 2010): Security fixes. The system is going DOWN for reboot in 15 minutes!" than anything else.
< 1292592272 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, don't know, probably the last one before it crashes?
< 1292592299 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, if it was caused by buggy crafting then presumably something related an item
< 1292592323 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, or you could inject a message that sends /spawn at the start?
< 1292592339 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hopefully you move before client disconnects
< 1292592358 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mcmap still connects, FWIW.
< 1292592371 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes and?
< 1292592372 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how to inject the signal there is beyond me.
< 1292592380 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, *using mcmap*!
< 1292592407 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I'm sure fizzie can tell you approx where it is handled
< 1292592416 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, help!
< 1292592430 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it has two message loops. One that handles server->client and one that handles client->server
< 1292592452 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has one bit of code for both, but there's a variable you can test for the direction.
< 1292592486 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main.c proxy_thread is the main message-forward loop, or just in main if you want to inject some immediately-after-connection initial stuff.
< 1292592500 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though it might be better to do that only after the handshake messages have been passed.)
< 1292592536 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm.
< 1292592563 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you
< 1292592568 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing?
< 1292592586 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, would you outline how I'd patch it to make it send "/spawn" once the connection is made?
< 1292592624 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b7820.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292592696 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well... in main.c:proxy_thread, add in the switch a case PACKET_HANDSHAKE: if (cfg->client_to_server) { /* code to write a "/spawn" command */ }.
< 1292592736 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for constructing a packet, there aren't any helper functions yet for that, since I don't make from scratch any packets yet.
< 1292592823 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But basically the /* code */ part would be: unsigned char bytes[] = { /* bytes for the proper packet */ }; packet_t p = { .id = PACKET_CHAT; .size = sizeof bytes; .bytes = bytes }; packet_write(sto, &p);
< 1292592838 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, commas instead of semicolons in the initializer list.
< 1292592901 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And for the /* bytes */ part, maybe { PACKET_CHAT, 0x00, 0x06, '/', 's', 'p', 'a', 'w', 'n' } would do.
< 1292592962 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's assuming both client and server send a PACKET_HANDSHAKE; I'm not sure if that's actually the case. I think they do.
< 1292592974 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, use PACKET_LOGIN for the triggering instead.
< 1292593318 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell?
< 1292593326 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MC proxy?
< 1292593355 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an automap.
< 1292593375 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being abused for something else here.
< 1292593442 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292593571 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, does the bytes array include the package id?
< 1292593578 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1292593590 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually you don't need to include it in packet_t for writing.
< 1292593623 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since packet_write just writes .size bytes out of the .bytes array.
< 1292593634 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how many bytes is the packet id?
< 1292593637 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One.
< 1292593702 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db43095.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292593850 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, OK, copying in that code now.
< 1292593998 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the what.
< 1292594074 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When the client sends a 0x0d packet (position+look), the fields are (in order) {X, Y, stance, Z, yaw, pitch, ground}; when the server sends that (with the same ID), the fields are {X, stance, Y, Z, yaw, pitch, ground}.
< 1292594086 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the Y/stance fields are swapped, even though the packet ID is identical.
< 1292594120 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, testing it...
< 1292594150 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Disconnected by server: protocol error."
< 1292594158 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hheh. Hmm.
< 1292594173 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use PACKET_LOGIN instead of PACKET_HANDSHAKE?
< 1292594196 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can try, but then it'd be even earlier in the session.
< 1292594212 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still a protocol error...
< 1292594215 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course my chat packet might be malformed, but I don't think it should.
< 1292594219 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps I made a typo somewhere...
< 1292594264 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, um. You can try using PACKET_SPAWN instead of PACKET_HANDSHAKE.
< 1292594275 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the "set spawn position" packet, you should receive one of those at the start of the session.
< 1292594324 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PACKET_SPAWN undeclared.
< 1292594334 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may use a different name, a sec.
< 1292594343 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PACKET_SPAWN_POSITION, sorry.
< 1292594391 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying that...
< 1292594425 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, saw you join at least
< 1292594432 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just crashed again.
< 1292594443 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, say something else?
< 1292594455 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what if you reconnects, maybe it updated your position just before it crashed
< 1292594469 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, I can still see what you say, BtW.
< 1292594493 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another thing you can try (I'm not too hopeful) is to filter out all unnecessary packet types, in the hope that the crash is caused by one of those.
< 1292594514 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, did it work now?
< 1292594521 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1292594524 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1292594534 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've set it to say "aspawn", so check if that gets through.
< 1292594541 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waits

< 1292594562 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, nop.
< 1292594569 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, sure you sent it in the right direction?
< 1292594582 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't even get the MoTD this time.
< 1292594593 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, to the server I mean
< 1292594596 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (cfg->client_to_server) { ... } should make it send it to the server.
< 1292594626 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1292594635 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, could try sending as soon as you get motd from server
< 1292594659 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think something else was wrong that time.
< 1292594682 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything get through?
< 1292594707 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, the message-sending code is the problem.
< 1292594716 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, nothing through indeed
< 1292594740 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could add a fprintf(stderr, "I SPOKE\n"); in there to make sure it gets executed.
< 1292594748 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, the error has fixed itself so I live.
< 1292594847 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it was some broken item on the ground I assume it timed out now
< 1292594863 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wouldn't do that unless the chunk is loaded)
< 1292594892 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it was indeed item-related, you could have fixed it by filtering out all the entity-related packets in the server→client stream, those are mostly "useless" in the sense that you should be able to play normally without those.
< 1292595021 0 :STALKER!~mtz_mtz82@213.87.86.85 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292595032 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, looked at the map; it used to be mostly a neat + shape (with some irregularities), but now it's a weird misshapen critter shape.
< 1292595261 0 :STALKER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292596395 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so which do you choose?
< 1292596426 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He chose... poorly."
< 1292596525 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I may have "jumped the gun" there a bit.)
< 1292597049 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, he was griefing yesterday. I just hope it didn't mess it up again, a bit annoying to go check at 4000,4000...
< 1292597368 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the lines in mcmap thing happens when you are far enough away from spawn
< 1292597377 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, say, 1000 or 2000
< 1292597381 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for both coords
< 1292598555 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-230-248.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292598744 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1292599157 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: matlab has a built-in perceptron algorithm, yes?
< 1292599473 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah... Run into some stuff mentioning IPv6 depletion modeling... :-)
< 1292599505 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Model timescale: 50-100 years (and those models might not even run into full exhaustion...)
< 1292599932 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292600053 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, incidentally, what Vorpal considers "grieving" is "putting some lava right at the bottom of a hole to bedrock to make it more interesting, then removing the water added to get rid of said lava".
< 1292600138 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, a hole I made for jumping into from the top of the marker.
< 1292600146 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not fun to end up burning
< 1292600152 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just annoying
< 1292600433 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: The Neural Network toolbox has. I'm not sure how standard a component that is.
< 1292600450 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292600467 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's one of the toolboxes you can install with the a version
< 1292600505 0 :scirath!~madhatter@97-64-195-191.client.mchsi.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292600552 0 :scirath!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292600569 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Octave-Forge has a clone, but (at least in the versions I've tried) it's a bit unfinished and broken. (And of course only works in Octave.)
< 1292600611 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing MATLAB/Octave polyglot code is not very much fun, or so I hear.
< 1292600653 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't see why it would be
< 1292600701 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they're meant to be compatible up to a degree, but it's full of quirks.
< 1292600868 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of my favourite MATLAB quirks: logspace(a, b, n) returns a vector of n points from 10^a to 10^b (already a bit strange with the exponentiation), except that if b equals pi (either the closest possible double or float), then it's from 10^a to pi.
< 1292600890 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a being equal to pi doesn't do anything special, of course.)
< 1292600915 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that...why would they do that?
< 1292600937 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Er, the points are also logarithmically spaced, but that's not strange.)
< 1292600969 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> type logspace
< 1292600971 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1292600973 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if d2 == pi || d2 == single(pi) d2 = log10(d2);
< 1292600973 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end
< 1292600985 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah uh
< 1292600987 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, a newline disappeared in the paste.
< 1292600990 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still makes no sense
< 1292601026 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but they've kept that for the past ten years or so for backwards compatibility.
< 1292601409 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another thing: in normal expression, "a && b" is a short-circuiting overall logical 'and' while "a & b" is a non-short-circuiting elementwise logical 'and'... except when used in the conditional of an "if" statement, in which & works as &&.
< 1292601484 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> 0 && fprintf('x\n');
< 1292601484 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> 0 & fprintf('x\n');
< 1292601484 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x
< 1292601484 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> if 0 && fprintf('x\n'); 0; end;
< 1292601484 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> if 0 & fprintf('x\n'); 0; end;
< 1292601487 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>
< 1292601511 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The whole "fprintf can be called without a fid too" thing is also a bit bizarre.)
< 1292601592 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The magic in & and if stops if it's "deeper" in the expression:
< 1292601594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> if ~(0 & fprintf('x\n')); 0; end;
< 1292601594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x
< 1292601808 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~nice@p5B132D87.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292602053 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292602184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:55:38  proof is that I beat the final, bonus boss of Pokémon HeartGold with a team of level 5, unevolved Pokémon
< 1292602187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292602195 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proof of what?
< 1292602219 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Proof that evilution is a LIE.
< 1292602270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that pokemon AI is bad
< 1292602271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:02:26  TLUL: no asking for ROMs/crack data on Freenode, it's against the rules
< 1292602281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um that is not a rule we follow very strictly here :D
< 1292602481 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-6-85.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292602492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:14:53  The online gaming still interests me a little
< 1292602493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:15:03  but I find that it's still getting too ridiculous
< 1292602509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i'm going to assume that you just keep saying it's ridiculous and silly throughout the entire log without elaborating on it
< 1292602553 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what's ridiculous in the world of coppro?
< 1292602567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: pokemon, or rather it's "getting" silly and ridiculous
< 1292602593 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They sold out when it got popular.
< 1292602634 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Another thing: in normal expression, "a && b" is a short-circuiting overall logical 'and' while "a & b" is a non-short-circuiting elementwise logical 'and'... except when used in the conditional of an "if" statement, in which & works as &&. <-- apart from the "except ..." bit that matches C
< 1292602638 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of
< 1292602640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "sold out"? has pokemon ever /not/ been popular? has it ever /not/ been hugely commercial?
< 1292602645 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(& is bitwise as well there)
< 1292602665 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Jesus, do I have to add ":P" to every blatantly sarcastic comment I make?
< 1292602665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so I've fried my GPU! (nearly)
< 1292602676 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why
< 1292602680 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and how
< 1292602684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: #esoteric tradition (at least if you ask ais523) to annoy people by ignoring obvious sarcasm
< 1292602717 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that thing.
< 1292602717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Far rendering distance + fancy rendering + Better Light mod + Better Grass mod (ok so that doesn't really use any processing power) + 128x128 texture pack.
< 1292602729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (1) SO PRETTY (2) SO SLOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
< 1292602737 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but did it overheat?
< 1292602740 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "except" bit is the only strange bit.
< 1292602747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, but it doesn't like me any more.
< 1292602759 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what?
< 1292602768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can I push feature additions to mcmap, too? You said bugfixes were okay.
< 1292602773 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, are you getting the GPU equiv. of a sad map?
< 1292602774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: We are no longer friends.
< 1292602775 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1292602777 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sad mac*
< 1292602780 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they make sense.
< 1292602786 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in what way?
< 1292602788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The GPU equivalent of a "Hey look, you can't turn around any more!"
< 1292602796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you can, but IT'LL TAKE FIVE MINUTES
< 1292602812 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right, but if you go back to normal mc it will presumably work again?
< 1292602816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: By the way: Better Light mod: *highly* recommended.
< 1292602819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It just looks better.
< 1292602827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Does lighting smarter, and smooths it out.)
< 1292602834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, it will, but I'm blinded by the pretty.
< 1292602844 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so not using your 1x1 pack?
< 1292602857 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292602864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I decided to make Minecraft as HD as I could to kill my GPU.
< 1292602866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the result :P
< 1292602874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But I recommend Better Light anyway, no matter what the texture pack. It's really good.
< 1292602891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything just looks so smoother.
< 1292602899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially where blocks meet the ground.
< 1292602930 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does it not require patching mc iirc
< 1292602942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, but it has its own patcher program. And it saves a backup.
< 1292602949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you just run a .jar, tick Better Light, and click Patch. :p
< 1292602964 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, guess what!
< 1292602971 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re feature additions, if you're unsure you can always just push an "elliott" branch, then I can merge/reimplement them if they don't conform to my Vision(tm).
< 1292602974 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MrMPatcher.jar fails for me!
< 1292602987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Maybe it doesn't like you.
< 1292602996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh no, I'm never unsure.
< 1292603003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm just going to add things like scaling the map :P
< 1292603023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: And maybe some command to print out coordinates of all blocks of the given values within a certain radius.
< 1292603047 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, urgh.
< 1292603052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What?
< 1292603057 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's complaining about some Swing thing.
< 1292603069 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : What is your opinion about "Most people don't like Test cricket because it is not exciting. Pachinko with digital display is trying to make more exciting, but actually what it does is it gets in the way of the ball!"?
< 1292603079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I really don't want to try and figure out your Java install. :p
< 1292603085 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I may still end up reimplementing them if they don't conform to what I think is nice. But public is public, of course.
< 1292603093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You know, the clone URLs look awfully "Read-Only" to me.
< 1292603109 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, a nice feature for the map would be ground altitude mode. I'm looking for any mountain near where I am (it is fairly flat within the area I can see in MC itself)
< 1292603112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why fizzie stores all his program options in a struct.
< 1292603123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Write it and you get to use it. :p
< 1292603126 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not urgent in any way, but would be nice
< 1292603139 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My java is STILL in the iron grip of the FSF.
< 1292603142 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a shame david morgan-mar isn't a part of the community, he's the only other big cricket fan esolanger i know...
< 1292603148 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah, I didn't demand the feature, just thought it might be a nice idea
< 1292603150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: only /other/?
< 1292603158 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than zzo38...
< 1292603164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292603170 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I'm rather surprised that he's never been seen here.
< 1292603181 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know about github, it's supposed to be public. Possibly you need to be logged in though.
< 1292603187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I am.
< 1292603199 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take a look after dinner.
< 1292603200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't think you can do an "outright public" thing though.
< 1292603213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just add me as a committer, and everyone else too. :
< 1292603213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p
< 1292603219 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. I'll check.
< 1292603230 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: from his iwc forum i understand that he is rather busy with his other projects, his job, and his wife
< 1292603235 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A topo-map is something I was going to do myself.
< 1292603236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Arc anarki guys had it done but IIRC that was a special GitHub-done thing.
< 1292603250 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's already a tracked heightmap for surface-map.
< 1292603278 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes indeed. Btw what was the enum thingy with packet sizes
< 1292603289 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I didn't look into detail at it, but it looked rather confusing
< 1292603295 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sizes aren't fixed.
< 1292603301 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's a list of formats.
< 1292603309 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For decoding them.
< 1292603322 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes but why did you make an enum per packet type (as far as I could tell)
< 1292603330 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a list of field types there.
< 1292603342 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an array per packet type.
< 1292603349 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(An array of enum values.)
< 1292603351 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1292603356 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you don't typedef your stuff
< 1292603357 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1292603403 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't tend to typedef. Can't recall why I did for packet_t; maybe I was going to keep that opaque.
< 1292603411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Out of curiosity, why /do/ you have opt be a struct?
< 1292603440 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just as a sort of a namespace-prefix-thing.
< 1292603448 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Away for now; food.
< 1292603452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Okay. Why are they gints and gchars rather than ints and chars?
< 1292603453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait.
< 1292603455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't answer that.
< 1292603458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is probably horribly glib.
< 1292603467 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, swat!¬
< 1292603474 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/¬//
< 1292603599 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, gio!
< 1292603606 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he uses async gio stuff
< 1292603615 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure why
< 1292603620 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :swat! not, ok
< 1292603621 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it is threaded
< 1292603624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, I can tell that it's utterly awful code made by someone with a deranged, pitiful GNU mind.
< 1292603627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm sure I can hack it. :p
< 1292603639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll fork it and remove all traces of things starting with g.
< 1292603719 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not "async gio stuff", it's normally blocking gio stuff.
< 1292603754 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I saw the word async somewhere!
< 1292603762 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's still gio.
< 1292603764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why god why.
< 1292603767 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And remember the "no bitching" thing?
< 1292603778 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I did not bitch
< 1292603785 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I just noticed the fact
< 1292603819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, Vorpal was already flagrantly violating it, so why not. :p
< 1292603830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how so?
< 1292603865 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, discovered new strangeness with MC water physics
< 1292603879 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, built a rig near the snow/lava thingy near spawn
< 1292603908 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it is a bit hard to explain without testing it)
< 1292604025 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292604025 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292604025 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292604025 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292604134 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-230-248.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292604134 0 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292604134 0 :jix!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292604134 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292604319 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1292604336 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-230-248.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292604434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 23:16:52  Have you ever watched a cricket game? I have never, but I still prefer Test cricket.
< 1292604436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: told you
< 1292604486 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very zzo
< 1292604650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: zzo is very zzo? you don't say!
< 1292604661 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which leads to a philosophical question: does this information reduce the number of cricket fan esolangers by one or not
< 1292604706 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*of known
< 1292604815 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue being, while most people wouldn't be considered fans of games they don't watch, most people wouldn't prefer a game they don't watch either
< 1292604912 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm or what is the probability that zzo38 has _played_ test cricket without watching it...
< 1292605916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://imgur.com/7U4xZ.png
< 1292605931 0 :spikku!~spikku@66.236.86.190.ptr.us.xo.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292605955 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Christ, that's unsettling.
< 1292605984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You even have realistic-ish hair, moulded into a CUBE.
< 1292605998 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, SIGABRT
< 1292606008 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(strange)
< 1292606048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does SDL_BlitSurface have any kind of scaling parameter?
< 1292606177 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, strange, but it crashed for all of us
< 1292606185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was your nagging.
< 1292606232 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I abort() when things go wrong. That should be replaced with a __FILE__ + __LINE__ -enabled die() macro.
< 1292606253 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or proper error handling, but that's for "queers".
< 1292606264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And fags.
< 1292606282 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And cigars.
< 1292606284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I curse you -- in a non-bitching way -- for using SDL_BlitSurface, which does not support scaling.
< 1292606295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see about this SDL scaling nonsense.
< 1292606301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SDL_Surface* SDL_ScaleSurface(SDL_Surface* Surface, Uint16 Width, Uint16 Height);
< 1292606305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that doesn't seem too bad.
< 1292606322 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what you, you know, use, for drawing, in SDL.
< 1292606327 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm also the line thing seems related to underground lava
< 1292606335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Will you kill me if -s chooses how many blocks to show, not the pixelles?
< 1292606338 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, when you get below-surface stuff first
< 1292606342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So -s 10x10 -x 5 is actually 50x50.
< 1292606355 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, then some lava, then that spreads, and the spreading lines are left after it loads it properly
< 1292606363 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, at least it looks like that
< 1292606385 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't have an opinion on that, either way is just fine. I'd think it'd still be easier just to have -s define the SetVideoMode numbers, though.
< 1292606402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Totally! Except for the fact that then the blitting becomes more complicated.
< 1292606454 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I would hope the blitting will handle non-integral window sizes for the resizable-window mode anyway. (If only by leaving partial blocks unblitted.)
< 1292606470 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-integral in this context == non-multiple-of-block-size.
< 1292606480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I believe that, in this case, it would end up stretching it.
< 1292606509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Is accessing opt. outside of main.c verboten?
< 1292606573 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, just aborted again.
< 1292606574 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're going to call the SDL tutorial's SDL_ScaleSurface in map_draw, it might be a performance issue; that thing is slow as anything.
< 1292606578 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And also C++.)
< 1292606601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, they actually wrote it theirself.
< 1292606604 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It could be spreading-related; if the server sends spreading lava with the multisetblock thing, I might easily be decoding that wrong.
< 1292606606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Grmbl. Okay. New idea.
< 1292606615 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah
< 1292606616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Is it okay if your map structure sort of kind of doesn't have a 1:1 mapping to blocks?
< 1292606619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. I handle the scaling her.
< 1292606620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*there.
< 1292606621 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'll convert the abort()s into a proper die() now.
< 1292606653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'll take that as a yes.
< 1292606679 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You implement it the way you want, I'll let you know if it's okay afterwards. (If you want to have the "map" bitmap scaled, that's just fine, though then it'll end up taking N*N times more memory.)
< 1292606693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It will, but it'll also be ~fast.
< 1292606727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Um, I have to touch map_update, don't I.
< 1292606735 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's where it's drawn.
< 1292606742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That function looks like it's going to eat me.
< 1292606745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a grue.
< 1292606788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay I will ASSUME that cz and cx are the relevant things to scale.
< 1292606814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But, just to check -- no "opt." outside of mainc.?
< 1292606815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*main.c?
< 1292606828 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see, with -x 5 and a 400x400 block map (the smallest possible thing, since that's what you get without moving) you'll have a 15M bitmap. For the awful case where you visit spawn and (4000,4000), it's going to be 1.5 gigabytes.
< 1292606855 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really have a firm opinion on opt. either, you can move it to some sort of common.h if you want.
< 1292606878 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In fact I'll put the die macro there.)
< 1292606880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Got a better idea that isn't horribly slow?
< 1292606906 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure. In the optimal case I'd just scale with opengl, but that'd need a SDL → OpenGL switch in drawing.
< 1292606937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Or just do it all in OpenGL. :p
< 1292606948 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is sort of what I meant.
< 1292606999 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, even if you start at 4000,4000 you get a bitmap from spawn
< 1292607001 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scaling while drawing (with something a bit more elegant than SDL_ScaleSurface -- just do something that does integer scaling factors naively, it's going to be better than the floating-point-math in SDL_ScaleSurface) is probably fast enough for small windows.
< 1292607006 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, at least it draws air over to there
< 1292607038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Scaling doth appear to work, maybe.
< 1292607042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try a higher factor to see.
< 1292607056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oo, or maybe not.
< 1292607057 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, though that might be avoidable. I'm not sure if it actually sends any chunk packets at 0, I just initialize the maps like that.
< 1292607063 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That was to Vorpal.)
< 1292607069 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah
< 1292607083 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but it isn't using 1.5 GB
< 1292607095 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, mcmap that is
< 1292607096 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that was with 5*5 block-size scaling.
< 1292607101 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ouch okay
< 1292607117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Okay, zooming is VAGUELY near working!!
< 1292607120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vaguely.
< 1292607124 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, might not be viable to do it that way then
< 1292607138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It seems to be trying to fill the whole screen with 1x1s for some reason. Or not quite...
< 1292607139 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, maybe you have to do it manually if you want scaling
< 1292607320 0 :spikku!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292607592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Uh, why not?
< 1292607596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 1.5 gigs is hardly much.
< 1292607612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've allocated Minecraft 2 gigs, and I have 4 gigs; so 1.5 + 2 = 3.5 gigs. I can handle that.
< 1292607646 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not especially elegant, though.
< 1292607664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You'll be pleased to know that it now fails to render anything at all.
< 1292607798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://imgur.com/Cwzdw.png
< 1292607803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: This reminds me of Apple IIs.
< 1292607828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The problem is that you draw it as a 1D array X-D
< 1292607877 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just repeat the lines. I don't think my drawing is especially weird, I even recompute all pointers for each row, IIRC.
< 1292607910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Wait, x is left-right and z is up-down in this view,r ight?
< 1292607986 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, minecraft x = bitmap x, minecraft z = bitmap y.
< 1292608121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SWEET it segfaults
< 1292608138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X Error of failed request:  BadGC (invalid GC parameter)
< 1292608138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Major opcode of failed request:  60 (X_FreeGC)
< 1292608138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Resource id in failed request:  0x4400000
< 1292608138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Serial number of failed request:  112
< 1292608138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Current serial number in output stream:  111
< 1292608148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you even /meant/ to get those when using SDL?
< 1292608223 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you use it very incorrectly, I don't see why not
< 1292608247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :			for (int bz = 0; bz < CHUNK_ZSIZE*zoom; bz += zoom)
< 1292608252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrapping the innards of this loop in
< 1292608254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :				for (int i = 0; i < zoom; i++) {
< 1292608257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did Not Really Work.
< 1292608269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...especially since it'd just overwrite the same pixels
< 1292608356 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you do need to wrap the Uint32 *p in there too, and the pixels += pitch.
< 1292608376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course scale the initial "pixels" initialization.
< 1292608418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: When I did /that/ it segfaulted.
< 1292608419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The latter.)
< 1292608435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, I wrapped everything up.
< 1292608460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Segfault ... it appears that I am truly doin' it rong.
< 1292608480 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you don't want to wrap the blocks += blocks_pitch part in, but you do want the unsigned char *b = blocks bit.
< 1292608495 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course scale the surface size, but I guess you have done that already.
< 1292608503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think I have. :p
< 1292608509 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, crashed
< 1292608510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		map = SDL_CreateRGBSurface(SDL_SWSURFACE, xs*CHUNK_XSIZE, zs*CHUNK_ZSIZE, 32, rmask, gmask, bmask, 0);
< 1292608511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOPE
< 1292608520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in handle_chunk
< 1292608528 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Aw, mine didn't.
< 1292608530 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1292608531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Erm, are you telling me to fix a bug?
< 1292608545 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I tried to tab complete line number somehow XD
< 1292608549 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and hit e instead of the number
< 1292613511 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292613511 0 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292613817 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, github updated; fixed the "too high update" bug and there's a rudimentary scaled-map mode with some bugs.
< 1292613861 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It doesn't compute the "how many fractional blocks there should be at the edges of the screen" value correctly, so the player markers are placed only approximately in the right positions.
< 1292613884 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They seem to jump around a bit when adjusting the scaling factor. Keys are pgup/pgdown right, might change those later.)
< 1292613886 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I note that that's one commit, not two
< 1292613899 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I have bad habits like that.
< 1292613932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See with scapegoat, you could just split it into two commits because of fractal.
< 1292613936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it makes you toast.
< 1292613956 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case I could've just added world.c in a different commit, they were nice and localized.
< 1292613963 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With git you could also split it into two commits but that's a bad idea if anybody's pulled it already
< 1292613969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But where's your toast?
< 1292613975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Go to hell, anti-toast-man.
< 1292613976 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you mean, post-datedly. Right.
< 1292613983 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a toaster.
< 1292614035 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292614035 0 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292614082 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Rather manually.
< 1292614095 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go on.
< 1292614103 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curiously enough, the code for scaled map-drawing is shorted than the SDL_BlitSurface one. (Because the scaled map-drawing just loops through the whole screen and skips map-x/z < 0 rows/columns, while the blitting variant computes source and destination rectangles for the (screen, map) intersection-box messily.)
< 1292614144 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sss.cs.purdue.edu/projects/dynjs/jstep.jpg I win the Internets forever!
< 1292614176 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, you are publishing that please tell me you're publishing that.
< 1292614183 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1292614186 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'fraid not :P
< 1292614189 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not per se anyway
< 1292614292 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, it's just a loop over the screen pixels, while doing "if (++m_xo == map_scale) m_xo = 0, m_x++" to repeat each map pixel map_scale times.
< 1292614292 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although if you combined the two relevant papers, you'd have something like that :P
< 1292614292 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In place of "m_x++", that is.)
< 1292614292 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes, but what's the control to turn it on?
< 1292614292 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohhh.
< 1292614292 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pageup a couple of times, I think.
< 1292614292 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or down.
< 1292614292 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think up ups the scaling factor, which is... well, illogical, depending on your logic.
< 1292614292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: Write programs that do one thing and do it well.
< 1292614292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh come on, git is hardly that.
< 1292614292 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292614292 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You could think of pageup as "go farther away", in which case it should be the zoom-out key instead of scaling-factor-enlarge key.)
< 1292614302 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, but my toaster is.
< 1292614306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yo yo yo does it have -x.
< 1292614312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Nuh uh. It can also do bagels.
< 1292614329 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it can't.
< 1292614335 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Er, no. But that's just "add an option, do map_setscale(xvalue, 0); in main".
< 1292614348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, it can do ... other things.
< 1292614352 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it can't.
< 1292614356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It can burn your fingers.
< 1292614367 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The later is true for relative, false for absolute xvalue.)
< 1292614370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Psht. Fine. I'll do it.
< 1292614379 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's like saying that 'cat' can cause your disk to run out of space.
< 1292614401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Indeed.
< 1292614409 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, *my* toaster has three buttons on it!
< 1292614423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What you should do is have three different toasting machines, and plug them into each other.
< 1292614425 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition to the spring-switch-thing.
< 1292614469 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The buttons are "defrost", "reheat" and "cancel". Oh, and there's also a burning-time control dial.
< 1292614484 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've ever pressed the buttons.
< 1292614530 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The log is broken.
< 1292614598 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Is there a button for heat one side of the bread only?
< 1292614611 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but maybe you could use one-sided bread somehow.
< 1292614800 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'd advise you to make clay higher-visibility in map.c.
< 1292614857 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I think there should be some sort of more structured colormap handling, maybe customizable ones, or "I'm looking for something" auto-highlights that'd desaturate other blocks and highlight-in-red the one you're looking.
< 1292614896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I picked something sand-like because I had already a horrible amount of grey-whites for different stones and other white stuff.
< 1292614905 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the colors are pretty arbitrary.
< 1292614914 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And snow/ice looks silly, I think.
< 1292614978 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be that I set snow-cover to air-color, so it doesn't show up in cross-section maps, but that makes snow-covered blocks show up as air in the surface-map, because it only looks for topmost non-air block, not topmost non-air-colored block.
< 1292615056 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is the log broken?
< 1292615592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    where put1 (k,v) = do
< 1292615592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :            let kl = fromIntegral (B.length k) :: Word8
< 1292615592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :            let vl = fromIntegral (B.length v) :: Word64
< 1292615592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :            put (kl::Word8); put k
< 1292615592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :            put (vl::Word64); put v
< 1292615602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY IS THIS PLACING MORE THAN 9 BYTES MORE THAN THE ACTUAL CHARACTERS
< 1292615608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait maybe bytestrings have a special serialisation
< 1292615948 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292616074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :           then error ("HASH COLLISION!! " ++ show o ++ " and " ++ show o' ++
< 1292616074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                       " have the same hash! ROCKS FALL, EVERYBODY DIES!")
< 1292616078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think my error is scary enough?
< 1292616161 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292616249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet
< 1292616253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have two separate concepts named object
< 1292616639 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292616639 0 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292616642 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://i.imgur.com/CwBtv.jpg This screenshot from a channel called, and I quote, "CNN Headline News".
< 1292616651 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK US NEWS REPORTING SO MUCH.
< 1292616654 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND JUSTIN BIEBER.
< 1292616657 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT MOSTLY THE NEWS.
< 1292616733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... Why did I ping you for that?
< 1292616738 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a rant for everyone!
< 1292616809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Actually, that's part of "Showbiz Tonight".
< 1292616818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I don't think anyone claims is real news.
< 1292616839 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's a program on "CNN Headline News".
< 1292616860 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't care if it's a fucking show about entertainment gossip, it's *claiming to be headline news*.
< 1292616879 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like Ice Road Truckers claims to be History?
< 1292616888 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Palin's Alaska claims to be Learning?
< 1292616892 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: FUCK THE HISTORY CHANNEL AS WELL.
< 1292616897 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: AND TLC.
< 1292616908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: WHICH, INCIDENTLY, IS NOT "THE LEARNING CHANNEL" ANYMORE.
< 1292616915 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TLC has been a joke of a channel for years *shrugs*
< 1292616928 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So's the rest of them.
< 1292616962 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, any channel that plays Seinfeld is, ironically, not a joke of a channel for the brief duration during which they play Seinfeld.
< 1292616972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ice Road Truckers amuses me.
< 1292616975 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same goes for STTNG, Corner Gas, Mythbusters ...
< 1292616983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't take it seriously, because I imagine the ice to be, like, miles deep.
< 1292616992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wimps.
< 1292616994 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Lasts very short, though.
< 1292617011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How does one pronounced "STTNG"? Stttttng?
< 1292617029 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you haven't coughed up any organs, you're not pronouncing it right.
< 1292617034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292617054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You know what I should make????? A NEW BUILD SYSTEM
< 1292617057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mauled by bears

< 1292617077 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It continues to amaze me that there's a few *hundred* channels available, and they're almost all *terrible*.
< 1292617092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha ha, BBC in your face. Okay so most of BBC sucks too.
< 1292617095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But we got Dirk Gently.
< 1292617098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TODO: Watch Dirk Gently.
< 1292617100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Watch it SO HARD.
< 1292617107 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: YOU BASTARDS.
< 1292617116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Problem? :trollface:
< 1292617123 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Though a lot of the BBC sucks, *it actually still has good programming*.
< 1292617148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: US channels love to cancel popular shows and rape the premise of the channel.
< 1292617156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if I need to support more than 2^64 objects in a scapegoat database
< 1292617166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, wait
< 1292617170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if I need to support more than 2^64 keys in a scapegoat object
< 1292617172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I THINK NOT
< 1292617184 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many US channels have wrestling now? Eight? Ten? Covering comedy, sci-fi, history, education, ...
< 1292617186 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TLC used to have interesting documentaries. Now, it's The Babies Channel.
< 1292617192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, i doubt I even need to support more than 256
< 1292617199 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O! The log is fixed now.
< 1292617201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: do you think I need to support more than 256 key/values in a given scapegoat object?
< 1292617211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose for an author ... if he uses, like, 30 IM services... and has 10 emails...
< 1292617215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 20 keys...
< 1292617222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And has ... uh ...
< 1292617226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*they use
< 1292617228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "Discovery Health" is soon going to become the "Oprah Winfrey Network".
< 1292617231 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, a channel for Oprah.
< 1292617237 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Oprah*.
< 1292617247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Dude, shut up and answer my question.
< 1292617253 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and even now, it's The Babies Channel)
< 1292617270 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Bah, support 2^2^64.
< 1292617275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq: do you think I need to support more than 256 key/values in a given scapegoat object?
< 1292617278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the question at hand :P
< 1292617281 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Bah, support 2^2^64.
< 1292617285 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1292617301 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^^^^^2?
< 1292617303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kinda relevant because there are tons of objects in the system and 8-bit vs. 32-bit count is a difference of 3 bytes per object :P
< 1292617309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(tons = literally tons.)
< 1292617384 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What is it that you are making?
< 1292617401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Scapegoat, a version control system.
< 1292617462 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what is it that I am making?
< 1292617469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: How should I know?
< 1292617519 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Maybe you guess. I don't know how you should know.
< 1292617602 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292617660 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is your opinion about this file so far?  http://sprunge.us/DadR
< 1292617662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1292617894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1292617904 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have opinion about this?
< 1292617904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, today I learnt that Firefox doesn't respond well to having fonts uninstalled while it's trying to use them
< 1292617915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it breaks even more horribly than you'd expect
< 1292617948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Firefox is also the only application on here that breaks while it's being upgraded; most programs just use the old version until you restart them)
< 1292617949 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Why do you uninstall fonts while it is trying to use them? Does it do different depending on the operating system?
< 1292617966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh, because it was the Microsoft fonts that I'd been meaning to get rid of for a while
< 1292617975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because things kept using them by default
< 1292617987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they decided to update, and the update came with a new EULA I didn't want to accept
< 1292618025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, what EULA?
< 1292618032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the microsoft cor fonts are unrestricted AFAIK
< 1292618039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://corefonts.sourceforge.net/
< 1292618043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the site hasn't been touched since 2006, so
< 1292618115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may have been a repeat of the old one
< 1292618125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, microsoft core fonts have a license that shouldn't require a EULA
< 1292618128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is partly why I declined it
< 1292618496 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why should you require Microsoft's fonts anyways? (Except for Windows computer) For other computer you can use it has its own fonts to use in its programs.
< 1292618651 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, Postel's law.
< 1292618692 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/
< 1292618693 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What.
< 1292618703 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i
< 1292618708 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why has that been domainsquatted.
< 1292618717 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Why should Postel's law have something to do with it?
< 1292618745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: mostly because everyone assumes you have them
< 1292618758 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Presumably somebody forgot to renew i t
< 1292618782 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works for me, though. Hooray for cacheing.
< 1292618785 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1292618795 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You can still use other fonts as replacement fonts. Whatever fonts of your system should work.
< 1292618800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292618814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what actually annoys me is specifying fonts by name in the first place
< 1292618828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you have a huge list containing fonts for a wide range of operating systems
< 1292619011 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I make my computer aware of the changes I've made to /etc/hosts?
< 1292619057 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is aware.
< 1292619062 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I know Windows will do it right away. In UNIX, I don't know what you need to do.
< 1292619072 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it is not.
< 1292619084 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you read the man page?
< 1292619088 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I changed it to fix haskell.org, and it's still broken.
< 1292619097 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, quiet.
< 1292619109 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You might have to restart whatever programs you use that use domain names.
< 1292619120 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gethostname() should read /etc/hosts every time.
< 1292619164 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many programs cache DNS. In Firefox I'm pretty sure a ctrl+shift+R will force a relookup.
< 1292619419 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you really dislike TeXnicard?
< 1292619558 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: One foot is both the same.
< 1292620559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Our hardware now diverges!
< 1292620640 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O
< 1292620640 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292621196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shpx is such a bad curse.
< 1292621479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Programming with Natural Language Is Actually Going to Work" --Stephen Wolfram
< 1292621508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (His evidence is Wolfram Alpha, which apparently works just great.0
< 1292621510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*great.)
< 1292621779 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :common OOP doesn't go far enough
< 1292621781 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ^
< 1292621789 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, terrible data hiding
< 1292621789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What is it now.
< 1292621795 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most you can do is private
< 1292621796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data hiding doesn't work.
< 1292621804 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that still allows the own class to access
< 1292621809 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a further level
< 1292621809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just shut up.
< 1292621826 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"secret even to self" doesn't quite cut it
< 1292621839 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, so that no one can access it
< 1292621858 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and indeed, data hiding doesn't work. Wikileaks proves that.
< 1292621859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see.
< 1292622568 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Wolfram Alpha, an example of natural language programming working? LOL
< 1292622601 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1292622604 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :working?
< 1292623054 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was a good example of how not to do UI design.
< 1292623074 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wolfram Alpha would be *much* more useful if you could just tell it *what to an interpret a string as*.
< 1292623245 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++: I'm not sure if templates of multiple inheritance is most awful. They are certainly both horrible
< 1292623376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inheritance itself is the most awful.
< 1292623489 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes quite, though the original idea (semantic networks) it is inspired by was sound
< 1292623531 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but doesn't even smalltalk have inheritance iirc?
< 1292623545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Alan Kay did not imagine C++ _or_ Smalltalk, as I've said.
< 1292623550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(When he invented the term OOP.)
< 1292623550 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, true
< 1292623567 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so what do you think about semantic networks?
< 1292623580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no opinions on them and don't plan to get any.
< 1292623590 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1292623609 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, surely you agree that smalltalk is less awful than C++?
< 1292623625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, doesn't stop it being awful though.
< 1292623636 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1292624601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Convince me not to make a build system.
< 1292624736 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Odyssey I'm tempted to call this FFXIII.
< 1292624819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq: Convince me not to make a build system
< 1292624821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*system.
< 1292624825 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No.
< 1292624833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Whyy.
< 1292625040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You do realise FFXIII exists?
< 1292625043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a cursory google :P
< 1292625052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also XIV
< 1292625093 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XIV is again one of them mumorpugers, right?
< 1292625157 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The real one is painful, and XIV is actually hurting Square a lot.
< 1292625171 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Let me put it this way: net profits for Square are down 90% because of *that one game*.
< 1292625175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lawl.
< 1292625180 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One wonders whether they'll give up the naming scheme somewhere around Final Fantasy LXVII.
< 1292625196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: They've already kinda given up on it.
< 1292625205 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are like 3 games with the number XIII attached.
< 1292625228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFXIII, FF Agito XIII, FF Versus XIII.
< 1292625236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Phantom_Hoover: http://imgur.com/9g2rZ.png AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH GOD
< 1292625240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm *fizzie:
< 1292625244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GET AWAY FROM ME PIG, HOLY SHIT
< 1292625258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They stare at you often, but I couldn't get a screenshot of that.
< 1292625280 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That looks very horrible.
< 1292625301 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About the only good thing from FFXIV is that it was an excuse for Uematsu to make more music.
< 1292625307 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFXIII didn't even have that.
< 1292625352 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, XIII had only one piece of music based on something Uematsu wrote: the Chocobo theme.
< 1292625395 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that pig is scary.
< 1292625743 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, consider: perhaps the Final Fantasy series jumped the shark long ago, and you should abandon rather than complain
< 1292625810 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Butbut I *liked* FFXII! … Aside from the gameplay, that was absolutely positively terrible.
< 1292625836 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, there's this kind of non-interactive game thing with really good graphics that's catching on.
< 1292625856 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called a 'film'; maybe you should try one?
< 1292625895 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many of them suck. Just like the game industry, the film industry focuses on "oooh pretty" instead of... Merit.
< 1292625909 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I strongly dislike it!
< 1292625971 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GYAAAH, GIMP, WHY DO YOU MAKE IT SO HARD TO INVERT SOMETHING
< 1292625984 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but consider that many, indeed most, games suck!
< 1292625992 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially when gameplay is ignored!
< 1292626025 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Colors/Invert, what's wrong with that?
< 1292626039 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it's greyed out!
< 1292626049 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, many things suck.
< 1292626050 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you in an indexed-color mode, then?
< 1292626057 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Doesn't mean I can't be upset when things suck.
< 1292626058 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DON'T KNOW
< 1292626064 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I JUST WANT TO INVERT AN IMAGE
< 1292626067 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Image/Mode/RGB?
< 1292626069 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK
< 1292626148 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, even in indexed-color mode for me Colors/Value invert seems to do a full-image inversion. (Don't know if that's palette-index-dependent, though.)
< 1292626199 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's just the luminosity-channel inversion, not exactly the same thing.
< 1292626250 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange that it can do "Colors/Value invert" for an indexed-color image (by doing the operation for each of the palette entries, it seems) but not "Colors/Invert".
< 1292626353 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The palette-based inverting ignores the selection, I guess whoever made those two filters had different opinions on what's sensible and what's not.)
< 1292626569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Happy Creeper happy happy yay YAY!" http://painterlypack.net/picker/big/screenshots/happycreep.png
< 1292626572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--Painterly customiser
< 1292626631 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1292626646 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292626646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I want to have the Halloween pig. н" http://painterlypack.net/picker/alternates/spookypig.png
< 1292626650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that just a mask or something?
< 1292626699 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard to say when they don't have the actual preview image there.
< 1292626759 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, my own selections have "Happy Ghast happy Ghast yay yay yay! Happy!" selected.
< 1292626788 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Couldn't help myself, it looked so happy.)
< 1292626821 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://painterlypack.net/picker/big/screenshots/happyghast.png)
< 1292627089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
< 1292627116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm enabling that in my Creepy Pack of Doom.
< 1292627733 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292627893 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292628542 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292628827 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292629106 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1292629136 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292630100 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, see /msg
< 1292630435 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1292630536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back, sort of
< 1292630583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ddarius wonders if there is a #not-not-math channel.
< 1292630583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ddarius: constructive or classical?
< 1292630586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : augustss: Well clearly it would be a place to stick all those non-classical mathematicians.
< 1292630590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan-logread: ^
< 1292630613 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, know what, I detected another change
< 1292630621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: huh?
< 1292630638 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, someone wasted one stone + one glass on changing a window from ** to 2 vertical glass instead
< 1292630649 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this is beyond logic
< 1292630663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut
< 1292630685 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed!
< 1292630740 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, see /msg too
< 1292630757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a minute, brbing right now
< 1292631115 0 :Leonidas_!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292631121 0 :Leonidas_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Leonidas
< 1292631585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=99223 this is awesome
< 1292631734 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292632295 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292632415 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ide spac
< 1292634235 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292634649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What I'm thinking about for a build system: vaguely Make-backwards-compatible, but (1) ALLOW NON-TAB INDENTATION, (2) run recipes as full shell scripts, (3) make $... and $(...) and ${...} synonyms for {...}, where the code inside {}s is part of a pure, functional language; (3) strictly separate (with GNU make-style |) source files and dependencies; and (4) a huge library of fancy built-in rules and the like, e.g. the C rule would handle a
< 1292634650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :utomatic dependencies.
< 1292634924 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1: Yes 2: Yes 3: Yes 4: Yes
< 1292634954 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add "it supports spaces" and you have the best Make-ish thing.
< 1292635016 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Coyote finally caught me
< 1292635035 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292635052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://imgur.com/RtgyF.png
< 1292635066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I like this texture pack a lot. (also featured: Better Light, and Better Grass!)
< 1292635071 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292635071 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can't open it on this computer *types into other*
< 1292635075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly it's hard to see the Better Grass.
< 1292635100 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, better grass?
< 1292635201 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292635254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It makes continuous patches of grass cover the entire block.
< 1292635256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice effect.
< 1292635947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also, you forgot my SECOND (3).
< 1292636222 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 三: Fuck you.
< 1292636223 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1292636522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP Captain Beefheart.
< 1292636582 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*groan*
< 1292636610 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently Julian Assange has not been made *aware* of what the charges against him are. No wonder everyone's confused. We only have rumors of what the charges are.
< 1292636629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect with *that* detail, no sane court will extradite.
< 1292636637 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is to say, he should stay the fuck out of the US)
< 1292636982 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, got the -3 error when placing a torch in a very very specific place
< 1292636989 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not when removing it though
< 1292637005 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, 100% reproducible, out near 4000,4000
< 1292637201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: In fact, my idea is pretty similar to OMake
< 1292637209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Which has ".DEFAULT: $(CProgram prog, foo bar baz)"
< 1292637260 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So, basically OMake but elliotised.
< 1292637273 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1292637327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: TWO
< 1292637328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MOTHER
< 1292637328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCKING
< 1292637329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TS
< 1292637417 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry elliott, but I was talking to elliot here.
< 1292637469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1292638516 0 :church!~admin@d207-216-223-76.bchsia.telus.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292638557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :church: Alonzo!
< 1292638561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :church: It is the highest honour.
< 1292638589 0 :church!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wetfish.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/leaking_by_humon-d34xwuj.jpg
< 1292638598 0 :church!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello elliott.
< 1292638624 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By Lambda, it's Church!
< 1292638703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a crazy theory, maybe church is not actually Alonzo Church.
< 1292638711 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292638738 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hmm. Perhaps Alonzo Church of the Lambda Calculus is not immortal.
< 1292638770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GASP
< 1292638772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heathen!
< 1292638837 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear, what have I done?
< 1292638870 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION performs 12 evaluations of (\x.xx)(\x.xx)

< 1292638876 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/evaluations/iterations/
< 1292639395 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1292639654 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292639691 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292639962 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1292641169 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@209.59.220.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292641916 0 :church!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1292641966 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d/win 23
< 1292642066 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292642953 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292644976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "Minecraft is a hype created by TIGsource scammers." zomg!
< 1292645060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Quite a schizophrenic "apology" and stuff: http://www.codergames.com/news/games/minecraft/
< 1292645064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :November 18th, 2010
< 1292645065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minecraft, a harmony and joy of creation!
< 1292645065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minecraft proves that there's still hope for a human kind!
< 1292645065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :November 16th, 2010
< 1292645065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minecraft, more thoughts.
< 1292645065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have rushed a bit with the conclusion about Minecraft.
< 1292645067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :November 12th, 2010
< 1292645069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole propaganda surrounding Minecraft is very fishy.
< 1292645071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing that stinks is TIGsource!
< 1292645080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I was under a lot of pressure, I still am. Anti-communists in Serbia don't have social security, jobs or any ability to get a job as everything is highly controlled and is only there to leave the impression to other countries that its a normal country as well."
< 1292645083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, uh ...
< 1292645138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol: http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=6273.0
< 1292645191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"People are not stupid, they're capable of thinking on their own, they just need to free themselves from constant brainwashing, people just need to unplug, free their mind from the prison some very bad people (TIGsource and alike, illuminati, satanists, reptilians, luciferians, etc.) imposed onto them."
< 1292645387 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amen
< 1292645428 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliot.. what time do you have now?
< 1292645497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amen?
< 1292645500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please tell me you're joking
< 1292645510 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am
< 1292645530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew
< 1292645538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: what time do you have now? i can't parse your sentence >_>
< 1292645548 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :timezone
< 1292645580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292645581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gmt
< 1292645662 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o'right.. so you're from..uk? (if i may ask)
< 1292645683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1292645706 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k ..*updating statistics*
< 1292645737 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so y the hell you're awake?
< 1292645739 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1292645773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not
< 1292645882 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.. you guys have a public minecraft server?
< 1292645942 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where do you play?
< 1292646043 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*last question so far ;)
< 1292646098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: we have a server, but it's private :P
< 1292646109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not really an #esoteric server, it just happens that all but one of the people on it are in here
< 1292646170 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from #irp:
< 1292646170 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:19 < sbluen> finally, a language that can solve the undecidability problem, I think
< 1292646174 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:20 < sbluen> that is, the halting problem
< 1292646262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that's a rather terrible name :D
< 1292646312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: #irp is like our retarded twin brother we try to pretend doesn't exist :/
< 1292646324 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..i'd really like to join you.. let me know if you're interested in having some company then
< 1292646325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember setting it up when reddit invaded here :)
< 1292646339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: ineiros is the admin. being Finnish helps a lot, I gather
< 1292646347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although actually the Finns are in a minority now aren't they...
< 1292646348 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k thx
< 1292646349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no, exactly 50%
< 1292646369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: health is turned off so if you don't like that it's probably not worth it :)
< 1292646456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm going to drag up you being an idiot!
< 1292646458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You're all wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. To quote the page: "write, in plain English, in polite command form, what you intend for your program to do." Brainfuck is NOT plain English in polite command form. So it's not valid IRP. And while you can request that somebody keep infinite memory in mind, they actually can't do that. So it may be that the language itself is Turing-complete but there is no TC implementation. --GregorR 17:37, 21 Aug 20
< 1292646458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06 (UTC)
< 1292646462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: HAHA I'VE NEVER SAID ANYTHING STUPID
< 1292646502 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhh, OK?
< 1292646514 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see nothing of me being an idiot in that quote.
< 1292646522 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292646545 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway, http://sss.cs.purdue.edu/projects/dynjs/imgsrc/javascript_the_evil_parts.png makes up for it regardless.
< 1292646613 0 :sbluen!~chatzilla@cpe-98-151-3-89.socal.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292646622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You claimed that "Please execute the brainfuck program 'blah blah blah'." wasn't valid IRP, because that somehow wasn't polite English.
< 1292646636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, it seems, your holiness, ",[.,]" just made this sentence not polite English.
< 1292646637 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292646659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I commend you for that publisher line though :P
< 1292646784 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Please interpret the following Spanish: "Considere si la proporción de los idiomas es más o menos importante que el lenguaje de nivel superior."
< 1292646799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor:  elliott: Please interpret the following Spanish: "Considere si la proporción de los idiomas es más o menos importante que el lenguaje de nivel superior."
< 1292646807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: This is still an English statement. And a polite one at that.
< 1292646821 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You clearly did not interpret the Spanish :P
< 1292646824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Admittedly the execution of that directive is beyond my grasp; but then, so is "Print out the decimal digits of Graham's number", which is definitely a valid IRP program.
< 1292646844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Just interpreted it and I'm fairly sure the proportions is irrelevant.
< 1292646848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English has quoting! Gasp!
< 1292646871 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pff
< 1292646969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Are you seriously saying that [[Please interpret the following Spanish: "Considere si la proporción de los idiomas es más o menos importante que el lenguaje de nivel superior."]] is not English?
< 1292646977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Are you seriously saying it is not polite?
< 1292646987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is /both/; it is a polite English command, and therefore a valid IRP program.
< 1292647026 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your mom is not polite English.
< 1292647924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Your face is not polite German.
< 1292648612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://sprunge.us/BUPQ
< 1292648737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Give me endless praise and wonderment for doing the obvious.
< 1292648762 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (cat is just like juxtaposing all the variables, except that it doesn't add pointless spaces when the variables are empty ... should probably be called catargs or something)
< 1292648854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is an astonishing statistic! Imagine being
< 1292648854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :able to do a single file compile, out of 1000
< 1292648854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :source files, in only 10 seconds, plus the time for
< 1292648854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the compilation itself.
< 1292648861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--Recursive Make Considered Harmful
< 1292648867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH MAN I CAN HARDLY WAIT, THANKS 1998!
< 1292649038 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292649143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hang on a minute! On real-world projects with
< 1292649143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less than 1000 files, it takes an awful lot longer
< 1292649143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than 25 seconds for make to work out that it has
< 1292649143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing to do."
< 1292649150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Did you live in 1998? What was it like? :-P
< 1292649172 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... oh come on, you're not THAT young ...
< 1292649198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But we are not using PDP11s any more. The
< 1292649198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :physical memory of modern computers exceeds
< 1292649198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10MB for small computers, and virtual memory
< 1292649198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :often exceeds 100MB."
< 1292649208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I was *three years old* when that paper was written.
< 1292649225 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, ALIVE
< 1292649242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But I could hardly be said to have lived in the same 1998 as people who used make occupied :P
< 1292649262 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe I was make-capable in 1998
< 1292649371 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292649379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't actually know how old you are exactly :P
< 1292649395 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good.
< 1292649450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BUT THANKFULLY GOOGLE DOES
< 1292649453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or at least is likely to.)
< 1292649500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: WHY DOES GOOGLE NOT KNOW HOW OLD YOU ARE
< 1292649524 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you ALREADY FORGOTTEN that I'm a stable causal loop?
< 1292649530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can Google not... know ... anything
< 1292649544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://www.thorn-lang.org/ Google thinks I care about this more than how old you are.
< 1292649669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Remind me to grep the logs to figure out when you started doing that grad school thang so I can extrapolate :P
< 1292649674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then I can post it on Google and EVERYONE WILL KNOW
< 1292649675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR SCIENCE
< 1292649733 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't know how old I was when I started grad school, how many years I spent in undergrad, how many years I spent at Intel, what year I started 1st grade ...
< 1292649748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Darn, right, I was assuming you entered grad school right after undergrad
< 1292649752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm
< 1292649758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'll examine your nose to determine your age. Like tree rings
< 1292649762 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This only works on jews)
< 1292649772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "The composite logo of the GNU and OSI logos was created by Gregor Richards." ;; please, please, please show this to rms.
< 1292649783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Video tape it. Then YouTube his heart attack.
< 1292649785 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-D
< 1292649800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! WHY GOD WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY"
< 1292649910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: NOT EVEN YOUR MICROSOFT RESEARCH BIOGRAPHY HAS IT WHYYY
< 1292649919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Did you actually ever come into existence?
< 1292649923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or have you just, like, always been there.
< 1292649986 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Have you ALREADY FORGOTTEN that I'm a stable causal loop?
< 1292649993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I KNOW I KNOW
< 1292649997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Computer Science student, revered software developer, natural-born rally navigator: Gregor is a man who wears many different hats!]]
< 1292650000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me that was intentional.
< 1292650011 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... wtf?
< 1292650019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am the only person who can Google-stalk someone and not find their birthdate :-P
< 1292650025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://twistyroads.net/trnt/entrylist.html; grep /your name/
< 1292650087 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite probably intentional :P
< 1292650108 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very subtle since all two readers of that page wouldn't know the reference.
< 1292650130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: THREE NOW
< 1292650164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ivkC_YJxk ;; Maybe you'll offhandedly mention your birthdate in this
< 1292650195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Congratulations, you bastard; you've singlehandedly destroyed my faith in Google.
< 1292650202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what to believe any more.
< 1292650205 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WIN FIVE INTERNETS
< 1292650230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BTW, how old are you again?
< 1292650250 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damnit elliott, I HAVE NO AGE. I am infinitely old but do not age, I am a stable causal loop!
< 1292650256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: THAT ALMOST WORKED
< 1292650276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Anyway, I am not sure stable is the right word to describe you :P
< 1292650285 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHHHH SNAPPPPP
< 1292650379 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What hint could I give that would be insufficient to guess too much, but could help potentially ...
< 1292650491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "I accept friend requests on Facebook from people who upload videos of stapling their own face."
< 1292650500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Assuming you have your birthdate on Facebook :P)
< 1292650532 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only day, not year.
< 1292650578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Do you post updates saying "AWESOME, I'm # NOW!!!!"?
< 1292650580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, that would suffice.
< 1292650602 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really care about birthdays.
< 1292650685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Grepping the logs for you mentioning numbers between 17 and 30: INDEED YOU DON'T
< 1292650699 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 17
< 1292650700 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18
< 1292650700 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19
< 1292650701 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20
< 1292650701 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21
< 1292650702 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22
< 1292650702 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23
< 1292650704 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :24
< 1292650706 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :25
< 1292650708 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :26
< 1292650710 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :27
< 1292650712 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :28
< 1292650716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: CURSES, HOW CAN I EVER GET AROUND THIS ATTACK?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
< 1292650716 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :29
< 1292650718 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30
< 1292650738 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's hilarious is that I've never made even the slightest attempt to hide that information :P
< 1292650777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.03.06:22:17:20  Whereas the target audience for your site is in the 0.25-to-0.75 turnips intelligence range.
< 1292650806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:17:45   It is time to put those Haitian jigaboos in their place!  No matter how many times the civilized world donates money, opens schools, rebuilds their nation, and holds their little monkey paws, the damn niggers can never get it right.  They never will!  The same goes for New Orleans!  Cancun in Mexico suffered few fatalities after their major hurricane, and the rebuilding is already completed.  Wha
< 1292650806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:17:45   t have the niggers in New Orleans done? If you are sick of this, join Chimpout Forum!  http://www.chimpout.com/forum  We welcome all races except for NIGGGGGGGERS!  We are not white supremacists, just negro inferiorists! http://www.chimpout.com/forum
< 1292650808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The site in question :P
< 1292650817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how one pronounces "NIGGGGGGGERS".
< 1292650880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's "nig" -- at which point you allow a little bit of water to flow to the top of your mouth and vibrate it while continuing the g sound -- and then "ers".
< 1292650913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:18:46  i once knew a nigger named esoteric
< 1292650913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:19:02  he had a sister named shaquanda
< 1292650919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only he had taken my advice
< 1292650921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to, his fortune, not squander
< 1292650922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT RHYMES
< 1292650992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:20:23  Average Human IQ 100  Average Nigger IQ 80  Of course there are negroes that have normal IQs, but you are much more likely to run into a feral ape
< 1292650992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:20:28  than a magic negro
< 1292650992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:20:42  many who don't see this have been isolated from the bulk of the nigger population
< 1292650992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:20:49  and just know a few magic ones in the workplace
< 1292650994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Can you feel the magic
< 1292651072 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I can tell I know only magic ones. And no feral apes, modulo the fact that by any reasonable definition, all humans not in captivity are feral apes.
< 1292651104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Obviously the intelligent negroes commit themselves to a life of BDSM.
< 1292651108 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d93294fe.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292651108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously.
< 1292651126 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently grepping for "25" has some pretty interesting effects X-D
< 1292651126 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292651137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: wat
< 1292651139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean timestamps?
< 1292651155 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I assumed you got that by grepping for Gregor.*25
< 1292651159 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292651161 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's me ... then a (0.)25
< 1292651165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not just 25 :P
< 1292651170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, all the numbers.
< 1292651181 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I don't know exactly how you grepped X-P
< 1292651182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The numbers are the integers between 17 and 30, inclusively.)
< 1292651193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That is how the numbers are defined and only shit it's almost 6 am.)
< 1292651238 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lesse, what's the minimum age I could be? Is it even reasonable that I could have been 17 while on #esoteric ...?
< 1292651265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, I came in here when I was 11 or so... and started being active when I was 12.
< 1292651276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly you're more than the difference older than me, probably :P
< 1292651280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Between 12 and 17.
< 1292651281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1292651288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But really, I get no meaningful results even with that range, so *shrug*
< 1292651289 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't mean just being here at that age at all
< 1292651298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What then?
< 1292651298 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean that, given the knowledge you have, could I have possibly been here at 17?
< 1292651303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. Well, not really.
< 1292651314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Are you <, =, or > 25? :P
< 1292651319 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup.
< 1292651362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Are you < 25?
< 1292651384 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think for some reason I'm required to actually answer these questions? :P
< 1292651405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes.
< 1292651406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Are you < 25?
< 1292651415 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sadly, 1998 was a full 4 years before I would use make for the first time.
< 1292651431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Man, I interpreted make as a regular word there SO CONFUSED
< 1292651441 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, I've been Unixing for a long time.
< 1292651450 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(relative to my life span)
< 1292651453 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Apparently The Google is insufficient to guess my age! Although I don't really care THAT MUCH about keeping my age secret, the fact that it's not out there is so fascinating I kinda have to!
< 1292651464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Has anyone really been far even make as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
< 1292651554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: then again people were mostly pinging me by wrongfully tab-completing the other guy whose nick began with Gr :)
< 1292651555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gracenotes: It's okay, we've killed him off and now his corpse lines our walls and floor. You can come back now.
< 1292651557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: PLAY DEAD
< 1292651580 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292651600 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meows
< 1292651608 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. There's a lunar eclipse this winter solstice.
< 1292651636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: JUST JOKING YOU'RE NOT WELCOME HERE
< 1292651639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GO DIE IN A FIRE
< 1292651643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(death and fire optional)
< 1292651667 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D:
< 1292651678 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A CURSE UPON YOU AND YOUR DESCENDANTS FOR A THOUSAND GENERATIONS
< 1292651687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: We already have a curse! A SEXY curse!
< 1292651865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: as a linguist, what are your opinions on version control theory?
< 1292651878 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: uh?
< 1292651889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: yep!
< 1292651958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: well that's the best blank stare i've ever seen communicated over IRC
< 1292651961 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i dont see how it relates
< 1292651998 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1292652002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: well it's vaguely to do with streams of things. that have semantic meanings!
< 1292652003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and merging them.
< 1292652009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SORTA LIKE LANGUAGES AMIRITE
< 1292652012 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no?
< 1292652014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: YES
< 1292652021 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not.. really
< 1292652094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: no but if darcs can claim to be based on quantum physics, i want scapegoat to be based on linguistics
< 1292652097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so start bullshitting, faggot
< 1292652103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::|
< 1292652105 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut
< 1292652107 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darcs?
< 1292652115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: THESE WORDS ARE OF NO CONCERN TO YOU
< 1292652155 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::|
< 1292652199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292652264 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fantastic Mr. Fox is turning out good
< 1292655416 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who are you Gracenotes
< 1292655499 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what to say. You ask a very deep question.
< 1292655591 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been here before though
< 1292655610 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: hagb4rd
< 1292655757 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292656038 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329388.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292659199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1292659200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292659448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292661266 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: all that's in my logs is you joining and pinging out a lot.  how long ago was it?
< 1292661288 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, was it in november?  i didn't idle here in november because it was too distracting
< 1292661744 0 :wth!~tianhou@2001:250:4001:302:223:8bff:fe54:5b7a JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292661768 0 :wth!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292662177 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-37.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292662257 0 :wth!~tianhou@2001:250:4001:302:223:8bff:fe54:5b7a JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292662298 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1292662300 0 :wth!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292662501 0 :sbluen!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]
< 1292663646 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1292663823 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-7-25.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292664844 0 :wth!~tianhou@2001:250:4001:302:223:8bff:fe54:5b7a JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292664873 0 :wth!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292664997 0 :wth!~tianhou@2001:250:4001:302:223:8bff:fe54:5b7a JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292665021 0 :wth!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292665659 0 :wth!~tianhou@2001:250:4001:302:223:8bff:fe54:5b7a JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292665699 0 :wth!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292666183 0 :wth!~tianhou@2001:250:4001:302:223:8bff:fe54:5b7a JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292666198 0 :wth!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292666624 0 :wth!~tianhou@2001:250:4001:302:223:8bff:fe54:5b7a JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292666728 0 :wth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1292667219 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292668886 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292670069 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292671759 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu
< 1292672423 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You might consider using the github issue trucker for mcmap bugs, then I can keep 'em straight(tm). Anyway, for the -3 error I think I'm going to need to dump the whole packet to file and see what's up with it.
< 1292672968 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm
< 1292673100 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to me to be very simple; no complicated milestone/class/priority/component/whatever forms to fill in, just a single text-box.
< 1292673182 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though it's not like I'm going to forget the -3 thing, just in general it could be easier to report there, since I don't really logread #esoteric, sometimes even not when I'm highlighted.)
< 1292673260 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What -3 thing, BTW?
< 1292673403 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes chunk update packets cause the zlib uncompress() function to fail with error -3. ("Z_DATA_ERROR if the input data was corrupted or incomplete.")
< 1292673444 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you feed the wrong data to zlib...
< 1292673446 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's rather strange, since the compressed-data length is given in the packet before the actual data, and I read exactly that many bytes.
< 1292673458 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But of course there can be some sort of bug.
< 1292673469 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that it seems to happen only in very specific circumstances.
< 1292673500 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What circumstances?
< 1292673509 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better ask Vorpal that.
< 1292673531 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far there's been some sort of a complicated waterfall-related scenario, and now placing a torch in a very specific place.
< 1292673639 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither of which should make the sent-out chunk-updates any different than plain old regular chunk-updates, though.
< 1292673705 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some sort of buffer overrun?
< 1292673786 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, this is Java...
< 1292674009 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1292674050 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, actually it is within 2-3 blocks of that place
< 1292674060 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, his code is C though
< 1292674067 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(minecraft is however java)
< 1292674215 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I guess I could try valgrind
< 1292674224 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(atm I'm not using mcmap)
< 1292674411 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION discovers that the Reader monad is the same as the (->) monad.

< 1292674414 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My mind is blown.
< 1292674568 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's one well-known zlib valgrind error that always happens.
< 1292674577 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least on my installation the default suppression files don't cover it.
< 1292674582 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's safe, though.
< 1292674633 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than that mcmap was valgrind-safe (error-wise; there might be leaks; it's not very careful code) at some point.
< 1292674646 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, valgrind suppressions. One thing one would likely want to suppress: All memory leak messages from allocations done inside global ctors.
< 1292674832 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292674860 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==16424==    definitely lost: 116 bytes in 4 blocks
< 1292674860 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==16424==    indirectly lost: 436 bytes in 7 blocks
< 1292674860 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==16424==      possibly lost: 14,719,745 bytes in 721 blocks
< 1292674860 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==16424==    still reachable: 1,458,563 bytes in 1,774 blocks
< 1292674874 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But just the one conditional-uninitialised zlib thing.
< 1292674958 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, could you stop mcmap from crashing when something goes wrong in the map-side code?
< 1292674988 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that it just becomes a pipe between the server and client?
< 1292675014 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I *could* just ignore broken chunk-updates, it's just that I'd rather fix the bugs and this forces me to do it.
< 1292675047 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, you can even probably do that by changing the die-macro to do some sort of thread-suicide instead of exit(1).
< 1292675113 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to try that, change the exit(1) in main.c:do_die into g_thread_exit(NULL).
< 1292675182 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though you'll probably end up running out of memory at some point because it'll keep pushing "interesting" packets into the "hey, look at these" queue, and there's then no-one at the other end to take care of them.
< 1292675227 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :File an issue in github if you want me to add a "try to fail so that we just disable the map and keep forwarding packets" feature. :p
< 1292675436 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Shouldn't be that hard. Just a status flag to see if the packet-inspection thread is running, single if (not) continue; in the packet-forwarding loop, and that's about it.)
< 1292675472 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292681818 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... Why does white flour exist? Really, why the step to white flour done?
< 1292682185 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :White rice is quite understandable, but what about white wheat flour?
< 1292683904 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292684364 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:13:31 * Phantom_Hoover discovers that the Reader monad is the same as the (->) monad.
< 1292684367 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:13:34  My mind is blown.
< 1292684388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know Writer is the same as a (,) monad?
< 1292684400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not one usually defined though)
< 1292684412 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waits for Phantom_Hoover's head to explode

< 1292684550 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:16:58  Heh... Why does white flour exist? Really, why the step to white flour done?
< 1292684555 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting question
< 1292684664 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not only that, afaiu bread is cheaper the more white flour it contains
< 1292684678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might somehow explain the why, i guess
< 1292684807 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flour

< 1292684913 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The reason for the limited shelf life is the fatty acids of the germ, which react from the moment they are exposed to oxygen. This occurs when grain is milled; the fatty acids oxidize and flour starts to become rancid. Depending on climate and grain quality, this process takes six to nine months. In the late 19th century, this process was too short for an industrial production and distribution cycle. As vitamins, micro nutrients and amino acids were co
< 1292684949 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :completely or relatively unknown in the late 19th century, removing the germ was a brilliant solution."
< 1292684986 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: looks like the likely culprit there...
< 1292685043 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then some article has a pitch about "health benefits" of whole grain products. HRT, anyone?
< 1292685082 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well _today_ we have less problem handling whole grain than in the 19th century i assume
< 1292685104 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it might still be more expensive to do so
< 1292685120 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*of a problem
< 1292685146 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, in epidemiological studies, HRT seemed benefical, but in actual controlled studies, it proved to actually be deadly.
< 1292685155 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: ouch
< 1292685157 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hormone Replacement Therapy)
< 1292685189 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait you aren't implying whole grain is actually unhealthy?
< 1292685217 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is trying not to eat too fine bread as his stomach gets upset by it

< 1292685224 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah.
< 1292685296 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's worthwhile to note a confusing error: the USDA's Nutrient Data Laboratory (http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/) —and many websites that derive their data from it—show vitamin E as absent in crude wheat germ, this is an error."
< 1292685332 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And besides, bread isn't a good source of anything besides carbohyrate. The protein in it is junk, it isn't good source of micronutrients (and that's before it screws up absorption of some micronutrients).
< 1292685429 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fineli gives 22.1mg per 100g of vitamin E in wheat germ (this is wheat germ, not whole grain wheat!)
< 1292685481 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fresly ground wheat flour gives 0.4mg per 100g...
< 1292685513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...brilliant solution. Without the germ, flour cannot become rancid. Degermed flour became standard. Degermation started in densely populated areas and took approximately one generation to reach the countryside."
< 1292685519 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some other whole wheat product gives 1.0mg per 100g.
< 1292685578 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no valgrind error when I reproduced the bug with water. Can't with torch since the the memory usage of the huge surface stretching to somewhere around 4000,4100 + valgrind overhead makes the machine swap trash
< 1292685579 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And besides, those fibers in bread aren't good either...
< 1292685609 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Flour dust suspended in air is explosive -- as is any mixture of a finely powdered flammable substance with air[12] (see flour bomb). Some devastating and fatal explosions have occurred at flour mills, including an explosion in 1878 at the Washburn "A" Mill in Minneapolis, the largest flour mill in the United States at the time."
< 1292685665 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, there's the gluten sensitivity / celiac disease issue. Celiac disease is real nasty to diagnose (to say nothing about other gluten sensitivity).
< 1292685728 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl
< 1292685804 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bleached flour is a white flour treated with flour bleaching agents to whiten it (freshly milled flour is yellowish) and to give it more gluten-producing potential."
< 1292685824 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Adherer effect" and "I don't give a shit effect" can really mess up results of epidemiological studies...
< 1292685836 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: wait what
< 1292685915 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, the helathines/unhealthiness of something isn't the only factor, also healthiness/unhealthiness of other factors it is associated with will skew the results.
< 1292685999 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense
< 1292686020 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Find people with high consumption of say, whole grain bread and you likely run into health freaks. Find people with high consumption of butter and you likely run into those that don't give a shit about effects of their diet...
< 1292686054 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or also low-carbers in the latter group, but those tend to be rare compared to the rest).
< 1292686084 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: you seem to be defining me as a health freak, that just doesn't seem _right_ :D
< 1292686108 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i avoid both whole bread and usually butter)
< 1292686109 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Likely... Not that they are...
< 1292686120 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fine bread
< 1292686174 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm no fan of butter personally (because I don't have that much use for it)...
< 1292686270 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think milkfat is pretty much the only kind of real fat with independent track record...
< 1292686329 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well until recently i'd been avoiding milk products for a while as i think they upset my stomach a bit
< 1292686370 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With milk products, it tends to be that the more fat, the less stomach upset...
< 1292686393 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, there are other factors as well...
< 1292686477 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good sign to tell your eating habits are real bad: You get hungry again and "need" a snack few hours after eating...
< 1292686525 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are always other factors, with that and this adherer effect you speak of i wonder if we have any _chance_ of finding out what things are really healthy or not (and not just food, but everything in our environment)
< 1292686545 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there is just too much noise to be able to extract most of the signal
< 1292686634 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then there's other stuff as well. One of the largest metastudies on saturated fat concluded (paraphrased): There is no link between saturated fat intake and heart disease, but because of publication bias, we probably overestimated the dangers of saturated fat...
< 1292686673 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. saturated fat being neutral is likely overestimate of dangers...
< 1292686732 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: i had this idea in my head that it should be obligatory to register health studies somewhere _before_ they are done, so that negative results cannot be completely lost due to publication bias
< 1292686762 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the way it is done with clinical trials.
< 1292686795 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1292686874 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did real nasty things with efforts to make statins seem effective...
< 1292686937 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good :D
< 1292686948 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess the system is better than i thought, then
< 1292686950 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW: Graph with total mortality vs. cholesterol will express better than words how much current guidelines on TC have to do with reality (none at all).
< 1292686972 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TC?
< 1292686978 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Total Cholesterol.
< 1292687025 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The upper end of reference range is in FALLING edge of U curve! If you reach the bottom (of course, this is just correlations), your doctor will complain about your cholesterol...
< 1292687036 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION finishes his fish and macaroni

< 1292687090 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and FFS, Sugar is not a saturated fat...
< 1292687165 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ability to public health persons and nutrion researchers to confuse diffrent macronutrients is incredible...
< 1292687192 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sugar and saturated fat confusion is just the most common one.
< 1292687286 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-9-134.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292687534 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION guesses today's square root of minus garfield was eventually inevitable

< 1292687615 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(warning: not pretty)
< 1292687647 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's not the first either
< 1292688136 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1292688664 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-9-134.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292688771 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292688883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:56:56  who are you Gracenotes
< 1292688889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: someone who's been in here longer than you
< 1292688910 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Ghost of Esolangs Past
< 1292689552 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I left during that one period when we didn't discuss anything marginally related to esolangs
< 1292689590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: let us refer to that period, as "always"
< 1292689604 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :precisely my dear ehird
< 1292689607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: right now hot topics are minecraft and scapegoat :-P
< 1292689629 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, the countless hours I have wasted with minecraft
< 1292689638 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :later we'll pass on to minegoats and spacecraft
< 1292689643 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...the countless seconds I have saved not looking up scapegoat
< 1292689647 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*checks*
< 1292689653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: good luck with that
< 1292689679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: scapegoat is ais523's plasmaware version control system that I'm trying to upgrade to vapourware and, maybe, one day, solidware.
< 1292689703 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : where is ais523?
< 1292689728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: erm, presumably doing things that don't involve #esoteric, right this second :P
< 1292689754 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have this vague impression he tends not to be here during weekends much
< 1292689781 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, no kidding.. this is his wikipedia editing chart nowadays. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia_user_ais523%27s_edit_times.png
< 1292689812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: he's pretty much left wikipedia, afaiu
< 1292689821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, he de-sysopped himself
< 1292689829 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: that graph is from 2007
< 1292689830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah i don't think he has internet at home
< 1292689839 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i vaguely recall that too
< 1292689843 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. same principles
< 1292689850 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compare with e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia_user_Gurch%27s_edit_times.png
< 1292689859 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I haven't touched Wikipedia in a while either
< 1292689877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: well let's put it this way, the only times ais mentions wikipedia now are to try and explain why it's so terribly fucked up :)
< 1292689889 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i'm sure i've seen him _some_ on weekends
< 1292689890 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1292689915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think he comes in when he'sat other people's houses
< 1292689917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*he's at
< 1292689925 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1292689939 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also wat, wikimedia has raised 10M dollars
< 1292689953 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some effective campaign this has been
< 1292689956 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some effective campaign this has been
< 1292689974 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er.. sorry.. reaching over keyboard for falling mouse
< 1292689991 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Ais523 shows no activity since november
< 1292690023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah those ads are beyond irritating
< 1292690033 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Gracenotes shows no activity since May
< 1292690041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and also the amount they need has been increasing suspiciously far more than wikipedia has been growing
< 1292690050 0 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292690069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I don't really want to donate with the such close ties to Wikia, which I abhor...
< 1292690127 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they made a killing-ehirds-family wikia, didn't they
< 1292690146 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1292690174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: No... but they have continually fucked over many wikis, including some I know the founders of, in VERY sleazy ways.
< 1292690193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: For instance: registering [wikiname].com and .net and refusing to give them over; redirecting them to the Wikia wiki, saying it's to "protect their brand" or some shit.
< 1292690227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: And whenever a wiki wants to move, they like to remove all notices it has been removed and fork off the wiki into their own graveyard that people can't find the real wiki from.
< 1292690239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as a lot of censorship and hullabaloo over their utterly unreadable new skin...
< 1292690271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: Anyway, even if I liked Wikia, it's still a blatant conflict of interest.
< 1292690279 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... some wikis on there flourish, but wikis are supposed to be about the long tail...
< 1292690305 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ones with autonomy and room to grow are the ones that were there from near the beginning
< 1292690322 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uncyclopedia, well, they probably have the most autonomy
< 1292690355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Quick! Can you tell that nethackwiki has been abandoned and moved at first glance?
< 1292690368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows how long that news post will be allowed to stay -- Wikia staff said they'd allow it for a certain time but then remove it.
< 1292690370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Seriously.)
< 1292690384 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(old site) in title?
< 1292690391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: Yeah, I don't think that will last...
< 1292690398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and who looks at the title bar any more?)
< 1292690409 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you're on slow internet and it loads first
< 1292690420 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. I dislike how minecraft on linux forgets custom key configs when you restart it.
< 1292690434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything they've said on issues like this makes perfect sense if you accept this: "The founders of a Wikia wiki do not own that wiki. The entire community of a Wikia wiki do not own that wiki. Wikia owns that wiki, and the entire community moving out and abandoning ship is immaterial to the Wikia wiki."
< 1292690436 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R FOR INVENTORY, T FOR DROP
< 1292690449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is... rather /not/ what most people expect when signing up, I imagine
< 1292690453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: erm save in .nethackrc?
< 1292690474 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...there really is a .nethackrc? heh.
< 1292690487 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This discussion is not good for my blood pressure
< 1292690502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: ...
< 1292690506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: you play nethack and don't have a nethackrc?
< 1292690512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: but what do you have boulders as???
< 1292690523 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't play nethack. I play minecraft.
< 1292690530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh MINECRAFT okay
< 1292690531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1292690537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i misread
< 1292690537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292690540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to context
< 1292690546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: I don't think minecraft has custom key configs.
< 1292690546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it?
< 1292690573 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does. until a few weeks ago it remembered them upon closing
< 1292690583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: oh yes, I remember, it does
< 1292690588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never changed them though
< 1292690597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r for inventory sounds nice
< 1292690733 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the season that I'm getting dissertation/doctorate defense notices in the mail from my university CS department.
< 1292690739 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in the email
< 1292690748 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently receptions only follow *successful* defenses. funny that.
< 1292691100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: you should be on our mc server :|
< 1292691125 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how busy tis
< 1292691159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: um ineiros fizzie nailor (just zis guy, you know?) Vorpal (alas) Phantom_Hoover Deewiant and me.
< 1292691161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very busy at all.
< 1292691168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly 0-3 people online :P
< 1292691175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: although health is turned off. you have been warned.
< 1292691193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and preparing for being on fire rather more than is strictly necessary is probably a good idea
< 1292691236 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :health turned off? as in, there's no damage?
< 1292691253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: yep. it used to be that way, but notch decided it was a bug and fixed it, so we put it back.
< 1292691254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p
< 1292691269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: let's put it this way, getting places is a /lot/ more convenient if you can just jump off tall buildings.
< 1292691275 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I played extensively on a server before the health update
< 1292691294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the Temple of Doom's purifying lava bath didn't last nearly long enough to cleanse your body and soul with health on.
< 1292691295 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jumping off superstructures etc. but despite no damage, my stomach still turns every time I do it
< 1292691307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: stay away from the Stairs then
< 1292691310 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can hardly see anything underlava
< 1292691313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: (two stairs from max alt to near level 0)
< 1292691322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that doesn't matter; you swim up a glass tube
< 1292691324 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: didn't say it wasn't fun though
< 1292691347 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I set up a water elevator on my server, it worked despite buggy boat physics
< 1292691349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: anyway if you want in ask ineiros, he's the admin
< 1292691357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: Vorpal has two boat elevators or so
< 1292691363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are rather easy to break
< 1292691374 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :water ladders are much more fun
< 1292691375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for instance, here's one method: "press A or D while in the boat")
< 1292691381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: water ladders? how does that even work?
< 1292691386 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay.. less fun, more useful
< 1292691400 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. a bug in water physics probably
< 1292691409 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lets you climb at 3x the speed of normal ladders
< 1292691422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds very useful.
< 1292691423 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG I FOUND A PUMPKIN PATCH
< 1292691435 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :hagb4rd|afk
< 1292691439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: our server is pre-halloween, so people go off on pumpkin expeditions all the time :P
< 1292691457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so people=Vorpal and all the time=occasionally
< 1292691518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: i hate how tools regenerating is going to be fixed :(
< 1292691519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in SMP
< 1292691550 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it already is fixed
< 1292691562 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..ain't it
< 1292691564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: no it isn't
< 1292691569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :throw, pick back up again, woohoo
< 1292691582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's going to be fixed with server-side inventory (suggesting that the current form is *client-side* inventory: wow just wow)
< 1292691584 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means you actually have to look for *resources* goldarn it
< 1292691595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, we'll just use hMod to put it back >:)
< 1292691598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: hey we have enough of that already
< 1292691604 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you have to do anyway if you forget to drop it
< 1292691607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: but making diamond tools all the time is waay too expensive :P
< 1292691610 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I have done many, many a time. even with diamonds.
< 1292691619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i've never done that
< 1292691621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see a brain doctor :P
< 1292691642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway yes ineiros is the man.
< 1292691766 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had root on the box my previous server was on. I also had physical access to it. unfortunately, 2/3 disks failed on RAID.. 1, I think
< 1292691794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: our "box" is a computer in ineiros's home :P
< 1292691807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, exactly the same things happen when he torrents as you'd expect.
< 1292691809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're low-fi, man.
< 1292691812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :authentic.
< 1292691817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're recording minecraft on cassette.
< 1292691838 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :groovy
< 1292691865 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, seems I have AA off in MC. I tried forcing it on (it turned out the settings were not what I thought they were) and it causes rendering issues
< 1292691877 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, white lines at the edges of flat textures
< 1292691882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i heard about that
< 1292691884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sucks :(
< 1292691894 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason I'm listening to My Chemical Romance. I feel like I'm 16 again.
< 1292691912 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually I'm not surprised if it is using one image for several textures
< 1292691926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH MAN IM WATCHING NOTCH DO THINGS ON HIS COMPUTER LIVE ITS LIKE HAVING A BABY
< 1292691929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does this even exist
< 1292691942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude everyone who plays minecraft hates you
< 1292691943 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he always does ludum dare
< 1292691945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you even doing
< 1292691971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop doing whatever you're doing and fix the myriad bugs you bastard
< 1292691977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll punch you
< 1292691993 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : OH MAN IM WATCHING NOTCH DO THINGS ON HIS COMPUTER LIVE ITS LIKE HAVING A BABY <-- ?
< 1292692006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://mojang.com/live/ WARNING TO SEE NOTCH'S AWESOMENESS IN ACTION REQUIRES MACROMED^&wADOBE FLASH
< 1292692120 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the basic structure of SMP (Sustainable Minecraft Project) is done btw
< 1292692132 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what remains is to flesh it out
< 1292692144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i, Metropolis, am going to come and civilise the fuck out of your people
< 1292692147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: expect smallpox.
< 1292692153 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :P
< 1292692170 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I expect you are careful next to the non-windowed lava lighting systems
< 1292692185 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which depends on on lava flowing down to lower alt
< 1292692188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: DAMMIT IF YOU WON'T ENTER CIVILISATION HOW CAN WE SHOW YOU THE DANGERS OF YOUR WAY OF LIFE
< 1292692192 0 :Gracenotes_!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292692201 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, placing blocks in the wrong places could result in severe problems
< 1292692221 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I use enternal-log-fire in a few places
< 1292692222 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292692224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What else do I have? A sword, some gravel, a bucket of water… a bucket of water! The deadliest weapon of all!" --Tom Francis
< 1292692228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *eternal
< 1292692228 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eternal*
< 1292692241 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah, beat you to it (same second though)
< 1292692241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He has the saddest face, as the current drags him away from me and I quickly lay down a barrier in case he can overpower it. He can’t, he just thrashes armlessly as he stares miserably into my eyes, drifting slowly backwards."
< 1292692258 0 :Gracenotes_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gracenotes
< 1292692261 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a creeper?
< 1292692265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1292692456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I swear to god I will now write a Lisp interpreter in 150 to 200 lines of C code, including a reader.
< 1292692465 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have monsters turned on right
< 1292692471 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..killable monsters
< 1292692541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: well, not enemy mobs. :p
< 1292692552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd just be irritating, since they couldn't do anything
< 1292692561 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't mind creepers
< 1292692577 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.. you need monsters for real. they're something new in SMP I haven't played with before.
< 1292692691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: ask ineiros :P
< 1292692706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: i think the creepers might make the way into the underground minecart system though.
< 1292692710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be. irritating.
< 1292692713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*their
< 1292692720 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :torches torches everywhere
< 1292692730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: old mine gigantic old mine everywhere connected to the minecart syste
< 1292692731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m
< 1292692733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*system
< 1292692748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also open-air exit/entries
< 1292692754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*exits
< 1292692765 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. have security checkpoints. ;.;
< 1292692784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: it would be fun to have Creeper Wednesdays with monsters, pvp and health turned on or something
< 1292692880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the raw price of Minecraft times the number of sales = £6.76 million pounds.
< 1292692886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think PayPal deducts 20% or so.
< 1292692905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So £5.4 million or so.
< 1292692910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notch is one motherfucking rich bastard.
< 1292693127 0 :jsaasch!~Johannes_@dslb-084-057-001-156.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292693285 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you know the locations you scouted fort he cube?
< 1292693287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fort he
< 1292693288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fort he
< 1292693290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*for the
< 1292693293 0 :jsaasch!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1292693297 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fort he
< 1292693302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fort, he!
< 1292693314 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292693363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I presume the only cobble in SMP will be from a factory.
< 1292693552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Luckily, I discover after three minutes of tactical standing still, this particular Creeper is too stupid to move."
< 1292693895 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes or that which is excavated to make room for the rooms (no pun intended)
< 1292693905 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, throwing it away would be kind of pointless
< 1292693907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's not sustainable, dude
< 1292693912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :build houses only in existing indents in hills
< 1292693929 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that would leave a large above-ground footprint
< 1292693940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you prefer non-sustainability?
< 1292693970 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it isn't non-sustainable, I used existing dirt for tree plantation (just moved it around, less than 5 blocks in all cases)
< 1292693992 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it will be sustainable because it won't need to grow, thus it will be a fixed, finite cost
< 1292694014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's more damaging to hollow out the ground than to build small, perishable structures in indents of hills
< 1292694018 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, since there will be capping to make the population sustainable
< 1292694039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you're going to kill people when they reach 21? :p
< 1292694054 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, I do it like China or something
< 1292694063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. emulating china. always a good idea
< 1292694068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so forced abortions then
< 1292694072 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite!
< 1292694077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you got sustainable coat hangers?
< 1292694087 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but your suggestion reduces natural habitats for various threatened animals living in the ecosystem in indents of hills!
< 1292694092 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how can you possibly support this
< 1292694104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't build doors and put animal food in the houses, duh
< 1292694108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :live in peace with the mobs
< 1292694124 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, alas, that won't work, considering they need untainted nature
< 1292694129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: all you need to do is build a small box of wood with one side open
< 1292694132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can leave the grass floor
< 1292694140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could even open up the ceiling apart from one block border around
< 1292694143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to let the light in
< 1292694149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then just build sustainable things for living in the corners
< 1292694167 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I specifically avoid existing caves btw to not taint the underground ecosystems
< 1292694170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: or, better: do it in the relative dark -- not so much that you'll need extra lighting, but nowhere that animals would be attracted to
< 1292694189 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292694214 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292694255 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1292694290 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about animals allergic to wood then?
< 1292694308 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think we jumped the shark)
< 1292694326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they will stay away, since it's not in the light
< 1292694336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: in fact, what you could do is put some lava lighting above an area just a bit away from the house
< 1292694339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just floating in the air
< 1292694345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way, animals will go there, not to your house
< 1292694366 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and they will burn
< 1292694368 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor them
< 1292694375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no?
< 1292694377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lava is in the air
< 1292694403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: in fact, you could even shield them from the upsetting image of lava... put cobble stairs on the top and bottom
< 1292694406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they let light through)
< 1292694422 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1292694439 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the aesthetics police would be after me then
< 1292694490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: find a natural flat space surrounded by mountains so that not many mobs make it in
< 1292694504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: build a fence around the space not occupied by animals, and say two to four doors around it
< 1292694512 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1292694513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: tada, you can build sustainably without worrying about the animals
< 1292694652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, reddit has officially denigrated to saying "lol, stop making excuses for wanting free shit!" to anyone who dares to question incredibly strong copyright in any way
< 1292694659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck this shit.
< 1292694678 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I thought you liked reddit?
< 1292694705 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how you use "reddit" to describe every single user
< 1292694770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: i like that too!
< 1292694779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: actually i'm just sick of the general quality of the comments. uh, and posts.
< 1292694788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I /did/, circa 2007
< 1292694805 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsubscribe from shitty subreddits
< 1292694829 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so which one do you like now?
< 1292694846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Name a non-shitty programming/CS-related subreddit.
< 1292694855 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HASKELL
< 1292694856 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/r/coding?
< 1292694869 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOREVER
< 1292695149 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG DIMINS
< 1292695202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: /r/coding is terrible.
< 1292695221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Its front page spans a whole half year.
< 1292695238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: And it misses a lot of the interesting stuff *actually in* /r/programming.
< 1292695246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh, and Jon Harrop is on the case:
< 1292695247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Building a business with Haskell: Case Studies: Cryptol, HaLVM and Copilot"
< 1292695249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-->
< 1292695257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Off-topic for /r/coding and you already posted it to /r/programming as well as /r/haskell." -- Jon "Colostomy Bag" Harrop
< 1292695272 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pick quality xor quantity.
< 1292695369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: /r/programming = quality + crap; /r/coding = fewer quality + fewer crap + very slow
< 1292695379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ still has crap
< 1292695385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slashdot = Slashdot
< 1292695390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? = ???
< 1292695399 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hacker News = Hacker News
< 1292695409 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/r/compsci = /r/compsci
< 1292695431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Hacker News = Quality + irritating startup asswipes + irritating startup asswipe posts
< 1292695441 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but.. didn't you hear.. hacker news is turning into reddit???!?!?!?!?!?111!?!!1oneone
< 1292695442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If I could filter out the business bullshit from HN I'd read it exclusively.)
< 1292695477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: /r/compsci = Nice reading, perhaps, but not really the same thing as the others.
< 1292695488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots of questions, not really many actual interesting posts.
< 1292695521 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't have everything
< 1292695541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes I can, see: /r/programming circa 2007.
< 1292695550 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't have everything permanently
< 1292695577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: There's no inherent reason why it went to shit. Anyway I would be fine if people just kept cloning /r/programming every 2 years or so. :p
< 1292695585 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, see mc
< 1292695610 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/r/coding is a clone; as you've noted it didn't take off
< 1292695729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I mean on something that isn't reddit. :p
< 1292695744 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't matter where it is if it doesn't take off
< 1292695788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, yes.
< 1292695802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I meant clone as in clone and take users. :p
< 1292695820 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nontrivial.
< 1292695836 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292695838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It was a hypothetical.
< 1292695870 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the meanwhile, just read whatever and downvote and hide the crap
< 1292695893 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292695935 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the amount bothers you too much, stick to low-traffic places
< 1292695940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But I have so much laze within me, dude.
< 1292695941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much laze.
< 1292695955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway "downvote and hide" is a rather more tedious policy with comments. :p
< 1292695977 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really
< 1292696019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Consider that bad comments often have good replies.
< 1292696040 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, not "often". Rarely.
< 1292696099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, fine, but I can't stop myself reading them anyway. :p
< 1292696107 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Latest github version should make the -3 bug non-fatal; if it hits, it should just freeze all map updates, but the packet-forwarding (and GUI stuff, but that's... less useful when it won't see the traffic) side should continue working.
< 1292696114 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do need to actually fix the bug too, of course.
< 1292696115 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are drawn to crap, don't complain that it exists.
< 1292696145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But I like complaining.
< 1292696289 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, we know...
< 1292696310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. But evidently not Deewiant ... either that or he just wants to complain about my complaining, which I can support :P
< 1292696342 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just have a vain hope that you'd stop complaining
< 1292696394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Alack, alack, alack, my complaints are unstoppable.
< 1292696548 0 :Eva_Earlong!~Eva@213.87.74.173 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292696676 0 :Eva_Earlong!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi cheaters
< 1292696863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eva_Earlong: Cheaters?
< 1292696874 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292696942 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292697104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I neither *am* a cheater no do I *wear* cheaters.
< 1292697107 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1292697200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: let fib=(fix$(0:).(zipWith(+)=<<(1:)))!!
< 1292697202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Golf.
< 1292697227 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Needs more ()
< 1292697228 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, see mc...
< 1292697256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Feel fee to donate it more ()s :P
< 1292697272 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You need to wrap the whole thing in ()
< 1292697281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No you don't.
< 1292697285 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes you do.
< 1292697303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so you do.
< 1292697304 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Very nice... Hmm.
< 1292697305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMMIT SCIENCE
< 1292697314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then
< 1292697314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib=(!!)$fix$(0:).(zipWith(+)=<<(1:))
< 1292697315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is shorter.
< 1292697345 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think the partially applied !! works like that without more parens, in the first, though.
< 1292697350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah, thus
< 1292697351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib=(!!)$fix$(0:).(zipWith(+)=<<(1:))
< 1292697362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW: This is both memoised and O(n).
< 1292697363 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's just fine and shorter.
< 1292697397 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to think of a shorter way of generating that list...

< 1292697412 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you made an attack in MC, that you then did not justify, care to justify it either there or here?
< 1292697438 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: fib=(!!)$fix((0:).scanl(+)1)
< 1292697456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (1) You are incredibly paranoid to call that an "attack"; (2) you often call other people cheaters yet didn't blink an eye at discussing the precise implementation of a definite cheat method (one I have no problem with); I found this hypocrisy amusing.
< 1292697462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Nice.
< 1292697473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: fib=(!!)$fix$(0:).scanl(+)1
< 1292697475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That was easy :P
< 1292697480 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*grin*
< 1292697481 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't remember calling other cheaters, and which method did you mean?
< 1292697498 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't really optimize it, but scanl anyway. :-P
< 1292697502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Clearly you have a terrible memory, as you've called me a cheater plenty a time; and I meant the teleportation.
< 1292697509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yeah, but needless parens!
< 1292697538 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm, not sure I consider it cheating, if the server is badly coded enough to accept it
< 1292697568 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coded badly enough*
< 1292697574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You called plenty of server-allowed things cheating before.
< 1292697578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. duplication bugs.
< 1292697613 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The bracket-heavy version (fix((0:).scanl(+)1)!!) is the same length, FWIW.
< 1292697629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Pah!
< 1292697632 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, I changed my mind about that
< 1292697637 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't have written it with the prefix-(!!) in the first place. :-P
< 1292697645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I see. And when was this? Five minutes ago...?
< 1292697647 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, once I learnt that it was due to crappy code
< 1292697651 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a few days ago
< 1292697655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You definitely said that PH would be a cheater to use duplicated TNT yesterday.
< 1292697657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the day before.
< 1292697691 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I said it would scare me, and I don't support that usage. But not cheating, rather it's making use of bugs
< 1292697857 0 :Eva_Earlong!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292698867 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. Villa Las Estrellas. It's the only civilian settlement on Antartica. Not a research station, it's just a freaking town.
< 1292699005 0 :Eva_Earlong!~Eva@213.87.74.173 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292699256 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that antartica itself or a closeby island?
< 1292699586 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Antartica itself.
< 1292699592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I mean something like http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/274/0/6/realistic_minecraft_icon_by_triquetraclover-d2ztxky.png
< 1292699596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: except, less realistic dirt
< 1292699599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and without the stone
< 1292699608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i.e., something as "cartoony" (except not really) as the original, just HD... not realistic
< 1292699622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ore would still look the same, just moar pixels.
< 1292699631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Diamond blocks would still look as non-diamondy as they do, just moar pixels.
< 1292699637 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah
< 1292699669 0 :Eva_Earlong!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292699671 0 :Eva_Earlong!~Eva@213.87.74.173 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292699676 0 :Eva_Earlong!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292700331 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God. People do Let's Plays of Persona 3.
< 1292700355 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Persona 3 is a ridiculously long JRPG. A speedy playthrough is 60 hours.)
< 1292700420 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292700430 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, it's in the series that *invented* the "gotta catch 'em all" mechanics of Pokemon)
< 1292701089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: context?
< 1292701386 0 :church1!~admin@d207-216-223-76.bchsia.telus.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292701409 0 :church!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1292701684 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, down?
< 1292701701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523:  God. People do Let's Plays of Persona 3.
< 1292701701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Persona 3 is a ridiculously long JRPG. A speedy playthrough is 60 hours.)
< 1292701861 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah...
< 1292701888 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is currently 53 hours into a playthrough.

< 1292701898 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This may end up being a really speedy 100% run.
< 1292702016 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292702930 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You definitely said that PH would be a cheater to use duplicated TNT yesterday.
< 1292702936 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had duplicated TNT?
< 1292702952 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made 1 block, and once I used it I had no duplicates.
< 1292702959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You didn't.
< 1292702966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal just decided that it was a posibility.
< 1292702968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*possibility.
< 1292702972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you've watched it for 53 hours? :p
< 1292702978 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On what grounds?
< 1292702979 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you had singulated TNT, you cheater!
< 1292703019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You're a filthy cheater?
< 1292703020 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, on the grounds that it could be done
< 1292703031 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, not saying you had
< 1292703043 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it was a misinterpretation of what elliott told me
< 1292703074 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is a murderer.  hey, it could be done...

< 1292703114 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, I've *played* it for that long.
< 1292703120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ah.
< 1292703128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you expect that to /not/ go way over Vorpal's head? :D
< 1292703155 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i did not consider that issue.
< 1292703203 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, of course it doesn't go over my head. It went below my feet
< 1292703211 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(due to not watching irc)
< 1292703378 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1292703484 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, this might take less time than I thought to finish.
< 1292703487 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GAME BREAKER GET!
< 1292703500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deliberate game breaker? or a glitch?
< 1292703515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defeat boss before it gets a turn!
< 1292703534 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you, Odin!
< 1292703603 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, this is not the infinity-plus-one sword, just an unintended consequence of game mechanics.
< 1292703626 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How?
< 1292703644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thunder Reign + Elec Amp + Elec Boost + max magic.
< 1292703679 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voila, defeat everyone while seriously underleveled.
< 1292703755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The infinity-plus-one sword, BTW, just one-shots all but one enemy in the game... But you can only get it at the very end. Literally level 98.
< 1292703833 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what game?
< 1292703860 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Persona 3 FES
< 1292703877 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292703878 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh
< 1292703907 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I highly recommend it, but note that it's long and hard unless you're very clever at abusing the game mechanics.
< 1292703928 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a fan of Persona
< 1292703940 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which game/games have you played, and for how long?
< 1292704176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: tetris, for five days (without breaks)
< 1292704196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the series.
< 1292704201 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: -_-'
< 1292704294 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION did a mean tetris back when

< 1292704377 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, waiting for it to connect
< 1292704388 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also disconnected, have a typo to fix.
< 1292704393 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Won't take long.
< 1292704396 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, minecraft.net is down
< 1292704402 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohh.
< 1292704411 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could even have caused the invisibility.
< 1292704415 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, maybe
< 1292704418 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the skin-loading won't work.
< 1292704422 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :502 bad gateway
< 1292704424 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292704434 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up again partly
< 1292704436 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and down
< 1292704467 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION realizes s/when/before ehird was born/

< 1292704478 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ehird/elliott/
< 1292704480 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, managed to connect now.
< 1292704487 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I have not
< 1292704506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the longest I've played a game before in a row is probably 12 hours or so, for both Neverwinter Nights and Battle for Wesnoth
< 1292704521 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292704533 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which NWN?
< 1292704544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1
< 1292704557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 is a) not as good IMO, and b) doesn't run on Linux
< 1292704562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I played Tetris before they invented computers.
< 1292704563 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean
< 1292704567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abatris.
< 1292704568 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably the 2002 one?
< 1292704573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLAYED ON A MOTHERFUCKIN' ABACUS
< 1292704576 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, given that you mentioned 1 and 2, yes.
< 1292704579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "No, the original AOL one!"
< 1292704596 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's a reasonable question.
< 1292704612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Not really, since probably three people played the original AOL one :P
< 1292704628 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like tens of thousands.
< 1292704631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You know why? It went out of business because of people copying floppies.
< 1292704633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A sad tale.
< 1292705130 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, down or just lagged?
< 1292705135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have made it go down.
< 1292705139 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attempted to place a tile entity where there was no entity tile!
< 1292705145 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mc said that
< 1292705146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly, my client did not want to download that many chunks.
< 1292705148 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what did you do?
< 1292705150 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ...
< 1292705153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I might have gone to somewhere.
< 1292705157 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, where?
< 1292705167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be a place with 6 digits in its coordinates.
< 1292705168 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if you crashed the server, fuck you idiot
< 1292705188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because I could have *easily* known that was going to crash the server, being omniscient.
< 1292705200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's just uberlagged.
< 1292705208 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, when notch is involved it seems likely :P
< 1292705247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, is it going to generate *every single chunk* between where I was and (100000,100000)?
< 1292705252 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just hope it's just a "restart the server" mess and not a "well, restore your world from backups" sort of a mess.
< 1292705255 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes I think so
< 1292705258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because if so, isn't that going to take up like ... gigabytes on the server?
< 1292705266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS WAS A BRILLIANT IDEA IF YOU ASK ME
< 1292705269 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ....
< 1292705272 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no it wasn't
< 1292705277 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also last backup was days ago
< 1292705285 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what'd you do?
< 1292705287 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how?
< 1292705289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's going to be hung for like five weeks generating masses of terrain that will never be visited. :p
< 1292705293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: //goto 100000 100000
< 1292705302 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.o
< 1292705305 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, iff it did that, then I propose you are banned
< 1292705307 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a goto command?
< 1292705308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: We have teleportation in mcmap now, and it's KER-AAAZY
< 1292705312 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, in mcmap
< 1292705313 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You could've dropped a 0 from both of those numbers and still got to a new location.
< 1292705318 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohhhh.
< 1292705319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, but.
< 1292705328 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no but
< 1292705329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I could even *walk* to (4000,4000) from /that/.
< 1292705333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Which is just boring.
< 1292705337 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....
< 1292705339 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you crazy bastard.
< 1292705343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: *genius
< 1292705349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: *pioneer
< 1292705355 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bastard
< 1292705355 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, s/bastard/idiotic bastard/
< 1292705357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: *scientist (I was doing an experiment! Everyone died!)
< 1292705365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there seems to be something very wrong with this game
< 1292705368 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bastard scientist!
< 1292705371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's causing such chasms in the community
< 1292705377 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hah
< 1292705380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Vorpal is the only one who actually gets angry.
< 1292705388 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, it's unthinkable that Vorpal and elliott not get along just fine.
< 1292705396 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what's wrong with it is that it was coded by an idiot who had exactly one good idea and then messed it up royally.
< 1292705403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: To be fair, we are now on the level of blatantly exploiting major bugs :-P
< 1292705409 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, you crazy bastard.  ais523: Vorpal is the only one who actually gets angry.
< 1292705416 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you have Phantom_Hoover on /ignore?
< 1292705419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...lol
< 1292705424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You were being totally serious and really hate me now, right?
< 1292705436 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What idea?
< 1292705437 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think he is annoyed with you
< 1292705438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like I have lost my only true friend in this sad, cold, thankless world of desolation.
< 1292705442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think you think wrong.
< 1292705449 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, time for single player
< 1292705450 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think bunnies.
< 1292705450 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I DETEST YOU AND I AM ALREADY ON A TRAIN TO HEXHAM TO BEAT YOU TO DEATH WITH A LAMP POST.
< 1292705456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: OH NO, YOU WERE RIGHT!!
< 1292705458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH GOD WHAT WILL I DO
< 1292705460 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that
< 1292705465 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it's called "Minecraft"/
< 1292705468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd better jump out of the window before Phantom_Hoover can unleash his rage on me.
< 1292705477 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WINDOWS WILL NOT SAVE YOU
< 1292705480 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah fun playing with the CPU
< 1292705491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Welp, so anyway, until the server stops creating ~31G of maps (well, if uncompressed), scapegoat time!
< 1292705499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*finishes creating
< 1292705499 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, but what part of it is the good idea
< 1292705510 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the bits that are actually *fun*.
< 1292705519 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad ideas include: doing it in Java.
< 1292705533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god, this doggerel battle is impossible.
< 1292705533 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing it without knowing the slightest thing about geology.
< 1292705548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hey now, the geology ignorance is brilliant.
< 1292705550 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, I think elliott just royally fucked up the server
< 1292705550 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making it steadily more restricted.
< 1292705559 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, with SCIENCE!
< 1292705562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's like Mark Doesn't Understand Animals: The Game: The Geology Edition.
< 1292705584 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The science of "hmm, it works with n... BUT DOES IT WORK WITH 10^n?"
< 1292705589 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I was wondering if you could point to any differences between it and, say, Infiniminer.
< 1292705600 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, haven't played Infiniminer.
< 1292705602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I didn't try and go to 10^4000. :p
< 1292705625 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, who cares about exact geology. I mean, it isn't like the 1x1x1 cubic block of stone unit is very realistic either
< 1292705633 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the carrying capacity of a player
< 1292705636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I like how all the infiniminer google results point to Minecraft pages.
< 1292705641 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the yield of a sheep
< 1292705669 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Where "all" = "first two"
< 1292705678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yup.
< 1292705700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back up.
< 1292705704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal:
< 1292705724 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1292705765 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nope
< 1292705769 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or down again
< 1292705777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nope, up.
< 1292705777 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it fails to log in
< 1292705780 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not for me
< 1292705786 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah now
< 1292705795 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's very laggy for me.
< 1292705853 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, have you played Infiniminer?
< 1292705874 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No
< 1292705898 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PH!!!!
< 1292705900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you'll need to "git pull".
< 1292705902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And re-make.
< 1292705904 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you will dos the server
< 1292705908 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, do you want that?
< 1292706081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's //goto 100000 100000
< 1292706085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: FWIW, since the chat is lagging.
< 1292706101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh, and you need to quit mcmap after it.
< 1292706109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And reconnect *without* it.
< 1292706111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Okay?
< 1292706130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also you MUST BE ABLE TO SEE THE SKY when doing it.
< 1292706130 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting extremely bad lag, FWIW.
< 1292706137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Have you done it yet?
< 1292706249 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it seems pretty much down anyway
< 1292706258 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, scenery completely stopped loading for m
< 1292706260 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me*
< 1292706264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover?
< 1292706268 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, DAMN YOU
< 1292706280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you close mcmap afterwards...?
< 1292706283 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it went down
< 1292706284 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You made it seem like it was actually doable now the server had recovered!
< 1292706287 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as in, timed out
< 1292706294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It will probably be down for a lot shorter time this time.
< 1292706296 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes he is an utter idiot
< 1292706298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it doesn't actually have to /do/ anything.
< 1292706310 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, still this is definitely a DOS
< 1292706321 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the teleportation send one packet or several?
< 1292706324 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What.
< 1292706324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, we're all evil computer spy hackers stopping you get on with your legitimate business work.
< 1292706327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Thousands.
< 1292706330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: We sort of have teleportation now.
< 1292706333 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it actually?
< 1292706335 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1292706335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: And it's SCIENTIFIC!
< 1292706339 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've briefed him in query already.
< 1292706346 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So that could be the cause.
< 1292706346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Mr. President! Mr. President!
< 1292706349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE MASSES HAVE WEAPONS
< 1292706351 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, mcmap sends two packets.
< 1292706358 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What the server does is of course anyone's guess.
< 1292706358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1292706376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ineiros is officially sick of us :)
< 1292706381 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, adding those wrap points would have been a good idea, would probably have meant that no one cared to do this hack
< 1292706381 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What.
< 1292706390 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least of elliott
< 1292706392 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1292706393 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just drunk.
< 1292706395 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292706407 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1292706411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The tiles are 1 m^3." --Notch, in a YouTube video titled "Cave game tech test", May 2009.
< 1292706418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently we're all 1.7 m tall, too.
< 1292706420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Despite being two blocks high,
< 1292706421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*high.
< 1292706430 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, we are not fully 2 blocks high
< 1292706434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: I suggest you just leave the server alone and wait for it to recover :P
< 1292706437 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm over 1.8m tall.
< 1292706438 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, stand in a 2 m corridor
< 1292706443 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, *in game*
< 1292706446 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what he mant
< 1292706447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm 7m tall.
< 1292706448 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meant*
< 1292706458 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he is drunk. Stop confusing him
< 1292706459 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me too. :P
< 1292706464 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, you are just nasty now
< 1292706464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal apparently thinks drunk people = people who are beyond even stupidity.
< 1292706465 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1292706466 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ^
< 1292706468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HE MEANT IN GAME DUH
< 1292706471 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are just nasty now elliott
< 1292706481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh man, that's the worst insult I've ever heard from you. I'm going to kill myself.
< 1292706486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sob, I sob, I cry.
< 1292706500 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so, will you keep porting to places that bring down the server for several minutes?
< 1292706509 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or will you learn from this mistake?
< 1292706522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I will if you keep whining about it. :p
< 1292706532 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no one will like that you know.
< 1292706542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No one else is whining at me constantly.
< 1292706565 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only because you keep acting as if you did nothing wrong
< 1292706605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think you should hang me, like Saddam.
< 1292706613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Tis only fitting for a DOSing cybercrime-terrorist like I.
< 1292706630 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In-game, of course.
< 1292706648 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe with some string, and a hanging thing built out of fenceposts.
< 1292706680 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not sure how you would get the horizontal bar out
< 1292706688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Tis taking all my willpower to not find the most popular Alpha server and teleport to 2^60 there or so.
< 1292706696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, so it's actually taking very little willpower since I wouldn't be anonymous.)
< 1292706711 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, would you actually do that if you was anonymous?
< 1292706722 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if so, what sort of moral code do you have
< 1292706759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently downloading existing chunks is slower than generating them.
< 1292706763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who'da thunk it.
< 1292706770 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it need to read from disk
< 1292706773 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or maybe it crashed
< 1292706778 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back up.
< 1292706789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: COME!
< 1292706795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COME AND DELIGHT IN THE 100K WITH ME
< 1292706821 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK!
< 1292706843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Don't use mcmap, you doofus.
< 1292706855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It can't handle >64k maps.
< 1292706858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Connect directly.
< 1292706897 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292707165 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, there?
< 1292707236 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, tp request to ehird
< 1292707248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It booted my client ...
< 1292707255 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no it didn't
< 1292707262 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, that was weird.
< 1292707264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After I said your mothers are dingbats; perhaps it found me insulting. :p
< 1292707268 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks his screenshots.

< 1292707271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Straight after, actually; quite odd.
< 1292707273 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the...
< 1292707275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I took some screenies too.
< 1292707280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...they're totally black.
< 1292707285 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No -- wait -- this one has something more.
< 1292707286 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got random noise.
< 1292707299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: THE FURY OF THE SOUND CAN NEVER BE MEASURED
< 1292707305 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_-
< 1292707317 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you know, you are a parody of yourself now
< 1292707351 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, the contents of the screenshots folder is *changing*.
< 1292707369 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's a process with 100% CPU use and no command in top.
< 1292707403 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O GOD IT'S SPREADING
< 1292707455 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292707457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STAND TO ATTENTION.
< 1292707462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is your final warning. This is your only warning.
< 1292707467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The gate is here, it ææ@³øđŊ¼Ø⅛Ŋ¼
< 1292707478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the strike £ı¿°| it will©£
< 1292707486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There will be no ŋ”ŋŋŋŋ
< 1292707496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it @ł³½€}→¸every w³½\}→ will disintł³]}½→ß}¶ßŧ“
< 1292707498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1292707508 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly you could consider the off-topicness of your performance art, though?
< 1292707544 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch Ouch OuchOuchOuch Ouch OuchOuchOuchOuchOuchOuchOuch Ouch OuchOuch OuchOuch Ouch Ouch Ouch Ouch OuchOuchOuchOuchOuchOuchOuchOuchOuchOuchOuchOuchOuchOuchOuch WARNING DANGER OUCHOUCHOUCHOUCH OUCH OUCHOUCH
< 1292707587 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 is not participating, I ought to point out.
< 1292707593 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is just being weird.
< 1292707604 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292707605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all
< 1292707606 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's completely in-character for him.
< 1292707607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must
< 1292707612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292707749 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it crashed?
< 1292707777 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, die: main.c:77
< 1292707778 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in a bus. Soon home.
< 1292707782 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, client->server
< 1292707789 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got a SocketException
< 1292707789 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's just when it gets disconnected.
< 1292707798 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, did you just hellify the server?
< 1292707805 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD.
< 1292707808 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, did you just...
< 1292707816 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently
< 1292707824 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ghasts, too!
< 1292707826 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My, my!
< 1292707837 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm disconnecting until it is fixed
< 1292707838 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I did hear that sort of thing happens to naughty users. :p
< 1292707847 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292707849 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no intention to play until it is fixed
< 1292707849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THOU IN THY PEREFCT ATTACK
< 1292707862 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do want to see how mcmap shows hellworld, though.
< 1292707872 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The surface map at least will probably be broken.
< 1292707875 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting drawn in by this, and I came up with the idea!
< 1292707881 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1292707900 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer getting the normal world if it is all the same to you
< 1292707907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THOU IN THY TERROR DISTRACT
< 1292707909 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, actually getting to my house
< 1292707920 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The US Senate has voted to repeal the ban on gay soldiers.
< 1292707924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THOU IN THIS WORLD SHALL DENY
< 1292707926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THOU IN THY PEREFCT ATTACK
< 1292707930 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yaaaaay!
< 1292707937 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, did it go through?
< 1292707938 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In America, you kill yourself. In Soviet Russia, yourself kills YOU!!!
< 1292707942 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :65-31.
< 1292707967 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, solution to this: add those damn wraps. I don't see how else people will stop doing client side teleporting
< 1292707990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Literally the only thing that could hold it up now is Obama not signing it.
< 1292707992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yeah right)
< 1292707995 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, as in, it won't happen, whenever you like it or not, it would be all the same to me
< 1292708008 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, yes, all of this is due to client-side teleports.
< 1292708015 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE HAVE TAMPERED IN GOD'S DOMAIN
< 1292708015 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, the hellworld certainly is
< 1292708024 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM PLAY GOD
< 1292708042 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, the hellworld is because ineiros joined in on me and elliott's little act.
< 1292708056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The hellworld is because I asked for hell on earth.
< 1292708059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, londonmidland.com tries to set over 70 cookies
< 1292708060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is it doing?
< 1292708061 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1292708062 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The weirdest thing: any //goto in the hellworld teleports you above the top-bedrock.
< 1292708065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out ineiros is awesome.
< 1292708069 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, right
< 1292708075 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway, I want to reach my house
< 1292708076 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't
< 1292708076 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Then you'll just stand on a flat sheet of bedrock.
< 1292708080 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously...
< 1292708089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: WHOOPS IT'S A GAME
< 1292708116 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll patch mcmap to dump the world, then go around next time it is back to normal, and then start a saner server
< 1292708132 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because I do like my house)
< 1292708144 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(BtW, I've not been connecting because I have a tonne of clay and I don't want to risk losing it to a ghast.)
< 1292708150 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, could you not run two separate servers
< 1292708159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: You've upset him.
< 1292708162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll never hear the end ofi t now.
< 1292708165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Chest it.
< 1292708167 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, Cthulhu almighty, it's a temporary joke!
< 1292708173 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, also, cartographer (iirc you use that one) breaks if nether exists
< 1292708181 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it can't handle the world later
< 1292708188 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless that bug was fixed
< 1292708191 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Good chance to collect hellblocks, though.
< 1292708198 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not sure I care...
< 1292708223 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hey, good point.
< 1292708290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: You didn't enable monsters. I think.
< 1292708293 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gyaah, MC crashed when I tried to connect.
< 1292708300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: see /msg
< 1292708304 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I certainly heard a ghast's giggle.
< 1292708307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ditto.
< 1292708406 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this series of Futurama isn't going to watch itself...
< 1292708410 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, I'd love to get in on the minecraft server :D mc nick = gracenotes
< 1292708420 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's.. been a while.. :x
< 1292708424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: It's currently in Hell.
< 1292708427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: Because of Cthulhu.
< 1292708444 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? didn't notch fix the bug of merging hell and non-hell in SMP?
< 1292708453 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes, dunno.
< 1292708458 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not on our server/
< 1292708474 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... keep server client updated :)  server.. client.. yeah.
< 1292708475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: Currently we're in hellworld.
< 1292708482 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, at home now. Who would like to tell what's been happening?
< 1292708487 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But long story short, elliott and I pretended we'd just found R'lyeh and ineiros played along.
< 1292708503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: see /msg
< 1292708516 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the server at a particular IP? does it do mac/ip filtering?
< 1292708529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: It is a particular IP; no filtering; ask ineiros.
< 1292708545 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ineiros
< 1292708560 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how does the client side teleporting work? I'm heavily intoxicated so please explain in simple terms. :P
< 1292708586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: Go into sky, fly fly fly.
< 1292708596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: (Go into sky, say I'm there.)
< 1292708602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: see /msg
< 1292708608 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :teleport ing.. with mods??
< 1292708645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: No, with our fancy server proxy.
< 1292708647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It maps too.
< 1292708656 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: I just explained this to you in the query, what more do you want?-)
< 1292708666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: /msgggg
< 1292708667 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try to read again.
< 1292708674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: Read mine too :P
< 1292708754 0 :hagb4rd|afk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah inerios! ..would you mind if if i bug u for a second? query?
< 1292708762 0 :hagb4rd|afk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :hagb4rd
< 1292708785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: see /msg
< 1292708794 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay taking shower now... be back later
< 1292708821 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell me when health is on.
< 1292708949 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's play yakitori cricket.
< 1292709105 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They talked about Pluto in the radio today.
< 1292709126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's on.
< 1292709334 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fuck you too
< 1292709343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: You are super-boring.
< 1292709347 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros++
< 1292709376 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woot, NullPointerException on connect
< 1292709388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: :'(
< 1292709395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: I'll cry for seven days and seven nights!
< 1292709396 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, yay
< 1292709410 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, you did the right thing when restoring
< 1292709414 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why do you need to cry that much?
< 1292709422 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, inventory lost
< 1292709441 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Every posession is a stone to your leg.
< 1292709472 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't meaning to possess it for long
< 1292709479 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stopped the server gracefully, so it's probably a bug.
< 1292709500 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What did you want the mud for, anyway?
< 1292709539 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll find out soon enough
< 1292709555 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Ominous!
< 1292709577 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, if you need say 5 blocks then I can give you some
< 1292709584 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw !
< 1292709598 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 isn't quite enough
< 1292709600 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, FWIW, what're your plans for once beta is released?
< 1292709608 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The mud is for throwing at your eye so you can't see, at your ear so you can't hear, and at your paper so that you can't read.
< 1292709622 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I suppose I could duplicate more and pretend that it's from a nether-expedition
< 1292709622 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That certainly explained things.
< 1292709634 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there soe information available? Are there some decisions to make?
< 1292709637 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It punctuates the ominousness
< 1292709643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: There's :6666.
< 1292709659 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But does inventory stick?
< 1292709663 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it a different instance?
< 1292709665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, it is.
< 1292709672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Which is lame, and also means both are impossibly laggy.
< 1292709682 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other words, it's not an option
< 1292709770 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, dunno!
< 1292709772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Neither is the main server right now.
< 1292709785 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean?
< 1292709834 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it more laggy for you now?
< 1292709837 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have gotten a lot more things in TeXnicard to work now.
< 1292709850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: Impossibly, yes.
< 1292709864 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason my connection is really laggy, but the load is just above one and the server has two cores.
< 1292709867 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, completely bugged
< 1292709868 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After I finished, we should make up the TeXnicard contest.
< 1292709873 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll turn it off, then.
< 1292709876 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, err, bogged*
< 1292709880 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, not bugged
< 1292709882 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo there
< 1292709888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: Turn off the non-hell server.
< 1292709896 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, turn off the hell server
< 1292709906 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turn off one half of both!
< 1292709912 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Don't ask me how.)
< 1292709917 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, since the hell one is useless without access to material from the normal world
< 1292709933 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also ehird just go around destroying shelters
< 1292709938 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there isn't much point to it
< 1292709938 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: Turn off two thirds of both.
< 1292709979 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Haha.
< 1292709988 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I presume you don't carry best armour? if so, I could just pvp you out of existence. Problem solved in hell.
< 1292709991 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then we'll be stuck with only two thirds of a server
< 1292710003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: Turn off both and watch Vorpal whine for a year.
< 1292710004 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, turn off two thirds of each.
< 1292710010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY HOUSE! MY BEAUTIFUL HOUSE!!!
< 1292710011 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually I wouldn't
< 1292710024 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I would expect you to whine a lot more
< 1292710032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, why?
< 1292710041 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turn off both of them (as well as the backup) and then just play cards instead.
< 1292710043 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, since you whined about it NOT being hell all the time
< 1292710057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Only because it basically happened because you whined a lot.
< 1292710069 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I did not. I complained. Not whined
< 1292710097 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, as the one responsible for this madness I demand loads of netherware.
< 1292710118 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whine and cheese
< 1292710124 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hah
< 1292710148 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, netherware all 'round!
< 1292710154 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would start a server, except I have adsl. It just couldn't handle the uplink
< 1292710157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from Vorpal.
< 1292710167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He didn't want any Netherware and said "who cares" when Phantom_Hoover said he lost his Netherware.
< 1292710170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So clearly he doesn't want any of it.
< 1292710175 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah it is pretty useless
< 1292710184 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, slow sand and lightstone sure
< 1292710191 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the netherstone... is useless basically
< 1292710196 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logs burn forever too
< 1292710204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want my 14 lightstone dust. :p
< 1292710226 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine. Try the other server at zzo38computer.cjb.net:9876 and see if it is work. Probably it doesn't, but try anyways.
< 1292710257 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what is it?
< 1292710258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I doubt that is a Minecraft server :P
< 1292710261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292710263 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292710281 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try connecting to it with Minecraft. Probably it doesn't work, but try anyways.
< 1292710289 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, so what is running on it
< 1292710302 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Why don't you try and figure out?
< 1292710312 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the server working?
< 1292710315 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Netherware, isn't that Novell's silly LAN thing?
< 1292710316 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, oh is this a guessing game? why didn't you say
< 1292710328 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, XD
< 1292710334 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, doesn't seem to be working
< 1292710340 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, well, nmap says port is open
< 1292710345 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but connecting to it times out
< 1292710348 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must be brokeded it.
< 1292710361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also minecraft.net was down a moment ago.
< 1292710366 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be related to that too.
< 1292710368 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try now.
< 1292710369 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292710370 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be
< 1292710373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the user-account checkery.
< 1292710389 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well minecraft.net is still down for me
< 1292710390 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not, the server wasn't responding to any commands.
< 1292710393 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292710397 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, I got in
< 1292710402 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of
< 1292710404 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Had to force-kill it.
< 1292710408 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in a grey void
< 1292710448 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, hm I think elliott teleported just before
< 1292710450 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could explain it
< 1292710462 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, down again
< 1292710470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh?
< 1292710472 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, I think he will keep doing it until you ban him
< 1292710479 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you bought down the server again
< 1292710481 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No teleporting.
< 1292710484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did? o_O
< 1292710525 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you teleported I bet
< 1292710543 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, it might be a good idea to add some wrap points however
< 1292710558 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do that.
< 1292710569 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, remember what happened last time we teleported.
< 1292710571 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But why is the lag so horrible?
< 1292710592 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, who knows
< 1292710610 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, approx 15 second
< 1292710649 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, clearly it was tampering in Notch's domain.
< 1292710664 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest you do something to (100000,100000).
< 1292710672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: You should make a new map.
< 1292710701 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, not before limiting view to say, 5000 in each direction
< 1292710706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no, before that.
< 1292710711 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, since otherwise you will get a multi-gb image file
< 1292710713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to see it ALL.
< 1292710717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Er, not with png.
< 1292710721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do realise that a lot of white space compresses well?
< 1292710734 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You do realise it's a silly Python script that creates the image.
< 1292710742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Verily.
< 1292710751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not going to be able to build that without having an uncompressed version around before packing.
< 1292710755 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes but it will be unusable due to most programs loading it not handling it
< 1292710777 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given the "code quality" (ahem), I wouldn't be too surprised that the 100k,100k location could possibly influence the server just by existing.
< 1292710784 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes
< 1292710793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fast enough right now, so "no".
< 1292710799 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4000 I *walked* to
< 1292710825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes, and now I, in my campaign of evil, not only went back in time and stopped music from ever existing, but CHEATED CRUELLY.
< 1292710827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right?
< 1292710839 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did think about doing an if (x > -5000 && x < 5000 && z > -5000 && z < 5000) test in the teleportation code, but that would've been oh-so-trivial to just comment out.
< 1292710841 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys, what's a likely command for calculating the total amount of disk space my vps is allowing me from inside my container?
< 1292710863 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, writing an email and asking them
< 1292710894 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have the software for email composing and sending in my container at the moment.  any other way?
< 1292710895 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what is this "music" thing you're talking about?
< 1292710900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Who knows.
< 1292710913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: um, df?
< 1292710921 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: What container?
< 1292710935 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's an old ubuntu i think
< 1292710975 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :df has a possibility of working.
< 1292710986 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not exactly guaranteed to.
< 1292711006 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks elliott
< 1292711030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you there/
< 1292711032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1292711066 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, elliott now wants the server to delete the world and start afresh.... or at least remove pre-halloween bits.
< 1292711074 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, just a heads-up as a warning
< 1292711084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'm going to hack in to the server and force it to be regenerated.
< 1292711087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fear my cyberterrorism!
< 1292711091 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ... did I say that?
< 1292711095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hyperbole will never be the same again!
< 1292711103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: as a "warning"
< 1292711105 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but you should not be allowed to convince the server alone
< 1292711110 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what the warning is about
< 1292711121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure ineiros does everything I tell him to without questioning it.
< 1292711124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that right, ineiros?
< 1292711132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe Vorpal thinks drunk people agree with the first person to suggest them anything.)
< 1292711148 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well you manage to get him to do the hell mess
< 1292711157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually that was Phantom_Hoover too.
< 1292711161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it wasn't a "mess".
< 1292711161 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given Vorpal's super-obnoxiously-boring attitude to life, I wouldn't be surprised.
< 1292711164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a mess because you were whining.
< 1292711172 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, you convinced ineiros alone.
< 1292711178 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I didn't actually listen to you guys, that was something I decided to do when the server started throwing errors. :)
< 1292711183 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the most recent version of ImageMagick not available as a Ubuntu package? When I send a message to them, they wouldn't install it, because, they said, the Ubuntu package does not have the new version of ImageMagick. (If it is important, I could install it in my home directory, I guess.)
< 1292711184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, but I'd already suggested it to him months ago.
< 1292711189 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was as surprised as everyone else when I connected and found myself in hell?
< 1292711190 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292711191 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was on my N900 at the time, didn't really read the backlog.
< 1292711197 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, phew
< 1292711200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh, his naïvety wrt booze 'n drugz is on record.
< 1292711205 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/?/./
< 1292711236 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, wait, so you did that purely by coincidence?
< 1292711253 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDZBgHBHQT8
< 1292711313 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes. Also drunken malice. :P
< 1292711391 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you're all listening to that video at the moment.
< 1292711432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am.
< 1292711435 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I am not listening to any video at the moment.
< 1292711464 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, well listen to that one!
< 1292711479 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No. What is it anyways?
< 1292711488 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The X-Files theme.
< 1292711504 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfect for any supernatural activities!
< 1292711514 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it necessary to watch it too? Or just listen?
< 1292711559 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292711667 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway what?
< 1292711678 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, *disconnect*.
< 1292711681 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292711686 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except you weren't around to see that part of it.
< 1292711690 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, right
< 1292711706 0 :ineiros_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292711710 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1292711714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi j-invariant
< 1292711744 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway, we can blame elliott for this pretty much.
< 1292711752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly.
< 1292711759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Despite the fact that the server would be erroring anyway.
< 1292711760 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, you mean the hellening?
< 1292711765 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no
< 1292711781 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, or yes too, he did the porting causing errors
< 1292711781 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1292711787 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, resulting in this
< 1292711796 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and then the blanket ban
< 1292711807 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, what blanket ban?
< 1292711810 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, if it had been used responsibly that would not have happened
< 1292711815 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what "this" is, but, well.
< 1292711820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Insert standard channel is about esoteric programming languages not esoterica etc. disclaimer here.
< 1292711827 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ehird claimed that the server added a blanked ban on porting
< 1292711832 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are esoterica in the first place?
< 1292711839 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Someone with "invariant" in his name is obviously programming-related already.
< 1292711845 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know of any software MML->MOD conversion, or MML->OGG conversion?
< 1292711852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-invariant You sure?
< 1292711853 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, could just be mathematical.
< 1292711860 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Which MML?
< 1292711861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Esoterick magick Aleister Crowley.
< 1292711870 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1292711870 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Music macro language
< 1292711878 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, k?
< 1292711884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What?
< 1292711890 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I haven't seen any Wiccans here lately?
< 1292711893 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you typoed magic
< 1292711896 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/?/./
< 1292711897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, I really didn't.
< 1292711899 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, okay, but it's not the sort of magikcy sort of name.
< 1292711901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magick
< 1292711902 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes that is why I asked
< 1292711912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: We get them occasionally.
< 1292711936 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, there's MML to MID, a format that more tools can handle
< 1292711942 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many times have channel members been turned into a newt as a result?
< 1292711956 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, none that I know of
< 1292711960 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: -2+ei
< 1292711980 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, is it connectable to again? Or is it about to go down again?
< 1292711994 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, the port is open so...
< 1292712010 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Open now.
< 1292712047 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Then should I write a MML->MOD program? Can it work with improper note pitch?
< 1292712076 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know enough about the formats to be able to answer that
< 1292712079 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fear that the problems with the connection are beyond my command. I may have to upgrade the connection (or outsource the server).
< 1292712198 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, just a question, what was it that you forbid?
< 1292712208 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, forbade
< 1292712212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Teleportation.
< 1292712213 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever the word is
< 1292712225 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, it sounded like illegal moves
< 1292712240 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, in which case, doesn't ending up on the top of a fence cause it
< 1292712247 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, which can happen out of accident
< 1292712252 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and same for top of boat iirc
< 1292712267 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning it is near impossible to avoid
< 1292712276 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless we walk all the time
< 1292712277 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it do?
< 1292712283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: He's trying to loophole his way out of a teleportation ban.
< 1292712284 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you make an illegal move?
< 1292712285 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what does what do
< 1292712289 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no I'm not
< 1292712294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you are.
< 1292712297 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm trying to get a clear answer
< 1292712310 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Near impossible to avoid" - I've ended up on top of a fence exactly once :-P
< 1292712310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is really beyond tedious, can we talk about something interesting?
< 1292712321 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well for elliott I meant
< 1292712332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh huh.
< 1292712342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So, scapegoat.
< 1292712344 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, since he seem to have a grudge to me
< 1292712350 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I won't help him
< 1292712363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that was sudden
< 1292712378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, surprising, as you said it just after I started reasing scrollback after not paying attention for ages
< 1292712389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm trying to shut Vorpal up, or at least drown his noise out with something vaguely approximating signal.
< 1292712399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Now I just have to think of some sg-related insight.
< 1292712400 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, just /ignore me then
< 1292712411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No; this way I get interesting discussion too.
< 1292712433 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, anyway, I never saw the teleportation ban mentioned by you. Only a "don't do that" for illegal move
< 1292712443 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can easily happen when exiting boat
< 1292712449 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, meaning, are we banned from using boats?
< 1292712485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He said "No teleportation."
< 1292712489 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, where
< 1292712502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:14:41  elliott: No teleporting.
< 1292712507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now watch as Vorpal claimed that only applied *specifically* to me.
< 1292712510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*claims
< 1292712522 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, it would be the reasonable option
< 1292712543 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, are you using the Tree monad?
< 1292712549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: Can you please just answer to shut him up.
< 1292712557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't see how that would help; anyway, sg repos are graphs.
< 1292712562 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, presumably it should be read as "no dangerous teleportation" as well. It worked fine when fizzie did it for moderate values.... He only knew about your telport to 100000 or whatever it was
< 1292712574 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Graph monad!
< 1292712580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Are graphs monads?
< 1292712591 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what a silly question!
< 1292712611 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything's a monad if you can get return, join and fmap working on it!
< 1292712616 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you?
< 1292712617 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's something I have to say: not being the one to run a minecraft server for you guys is one of the things I'm extremely happy about.
< 1292712624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Totally.
< 1292712629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Can you what?
< 1292712633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Only if they obey the laws. :p
< 1292712641 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hence "working".
< 1292712647 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you make a graph monad/
< 1292712657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: "Maybe."
< 1292712664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap seems obvious.
< 1292712670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return too.
< 1292712671 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, "Graph".
< 1292712674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :join, I'm not sure about.
< 1292712676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite possibly.
< 1292712678 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell? in my #esoteric ?
< 1292712680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think so.
< 1292712682 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, graph of graphs.
< 1292712683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Maybe.
< 1292712686 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make into a graph.
< 1292712692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes. But where do you connect the connections?
< 1292712696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to, that is.
< 1292712706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I wonder if I could coerce the server to running with 256 MiB of ram. :p
< 1292712707 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, connect everything to each member of the subgraph?
< 1292712719 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does graph monad not finish for cyclic graphs? :x
< 1292712740 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er.. I suppose you'd use a more sensible graph representation.. nevarmind.
< 1292712747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Possibly, yes.
< 1292712747 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes, silly question, again. Ask again once we have defined a monad.
< 1292712760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hire j-invariant to code it, as is the policy* with newbies.
< 1292712761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*as of now
< 1292712773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone any good with B-trees?
< 1292712774 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remind me of the join-based monad laws.
< 1292712779 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you treat it as a list of nodes, it's not so bad
< 1292712785 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You could run craftd, Mineserver or Quartz; those are C/C++, just simply based on the language they might be a bit less resource-hungry.
< 1292712786 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have a go
< 1292712792 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as it satisfies the laws
< 1292712799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Well, that I wasn't expecting. (What language?)
< 1292712811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: One would assume it has to hold at least some of the map in memory regardless... but maybe.
< 1292712812 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: join . fmap join = join . join
< 1292712824 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :join . return = id
< 1292712855 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Can you play Washizu mahjong, backwards?
< 1292712856 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := join . fmap return
< 1292712857 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what definition of a graph are you using, BtW?
< 1292712863 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1292712863 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And can't remember the third
< 1292712865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm not sure.
< 1292712867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Directed cyclic?
< 1292712875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Directed cyclic or non-directed cyclic, anyway.
< 1292712877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not acyclic, that's boring.
< 1292712879 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In terms of a data declaration?
< 1292712884 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no I've never played Mahjong of any sort
< 1292712886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Somethin reasonable.
< 1292712913 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, but 256M is already a 1448x1448x128 map-block. (And maybe you could be agressive about run-length encoding air away, or unloading blocks to disk. Okay, so 256M does sound quite pushing it.)
< 1292712937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It has to run the OS, too. :p
< 1292712945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And all the miscellaneous structure.
< 1292712949 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: OK. Have you ever played Dungeons&Dragons game?
< 1292712962 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sorry zzo38 I have not played those either
< 1292712972 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The goal of craftd is to provide a high performance, low overhead implementation of the Minecraft Survival Multiplayer (SMP) protocol." (They don't list any system requirements, though.)
< 1292713017 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: OK. How many computer programs have you written (if any)?
< 1292713037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "It doesn't currently implement much of the Minecraft protocol, but you can follow along and track progress. Check back later for release tarballs and eventually binaries."
< 1292713055 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the Mineserver folks say it "consumes less than 1/10th the resources of the official server", so if you take that at a face value, your 256M is equivalent to 2560M for the official server.
< 1292713067 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not sure I'd trust 'em.)
< 1292713069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Sounds PLAUSIBLE.
< 1292713103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Mineserver has its own map generation which probably sucks ass.
< 1292713131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, what would you recommend I implement after objects, scapegoat-wise?
< 1292713139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there's, like, 10 things I could do -- maybe patches?
< 1292713214 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, incidentally, I think that tentative definition of join actually works with the laws.
< 1292713285 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: If you haven't played those games... Can you play cricket? If not, what can you play? Shogi? Poker? Funny-Poker? Pokerscope? Flipperless pinball? The game of the year?
< 1292713313 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no I don't play cricket. I have tried to learn Shogi but I am very bad at it
< 1292713321 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strip paintball, does that already exist?
< 1292713333 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, please look at the esolang wiki, to learn about esoteric programming.
< 1292713360 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqXYPvhHMCo Real SNES, CD quality sound with game. (oh, and about 4GB of storage space available) Whooo.
< 1292713363 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I can play fencing.
< 1292713378 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not very good at shogi either, but I know all the rules and am better than most people who are not very good at shogi.
< 1292713382 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION slaps zzo38 

< 1292713387 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Choose your weapons!
< 1292713413 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, whose thing is that?
< 1292713418 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I choose the weapon that it has a 50% chance to damage the target and 50% chance to heal the target, every time it hits.
< 1292713439 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VERY WELL
< 1292713471 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION upside-down Phantom_Hoover

< 1292713487 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION lunges

< 1292713511 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION room spin too fast

< 1292713546 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually I can't write join. if our graph was (a)----(b), where a was the graph (x)-(y) and b was the graph (x)-(z) I have no way of distinguishing between the two x's.
< 1292713566 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Sorry, you lose. You are out hit wicket.
< 1292713621 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, do you need to?
< 1292713632 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mentanpin riichi dora 13. Yakuman.
< 1292713643 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too bad for you!!!
< 1292713652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: allow duplicates?
< 1292713686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I think there is a type of graph that allows duplicates, so just a cyclic one of those.
< 1292713706 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't see where it breaks the monad laws...
< 1292713734 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/AC9MQggA
< 1292713744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: the result would be "x(1)<->y; x(1)<->x(2); y<->x(2); x(2)<->z; x(1)<->z; y<->z;"
< 1292713746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: assuming undirected
< 1292713747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I think?
< 1292713749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this right?
< 1292713753 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Next time, make sure to use a real fence.
< 1292713757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say x(1) is the x attached to y and x(2) the one attached to z
< 1292713764 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's what I had in mind but I can't program it
< 1292713773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yeah it sounds like a bitch to do
< 1292713780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: hmm well merge vertices and edges
< 1292713789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: so that every element contains all its arcs?
< 1292713790 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we would have to have  join :: m (m a) -> m (a,Tag)
< 1292713796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that way, you won't need to
< 1292713801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since each element "knows" its connections
< 1292713826 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, represent graphs by matrices -- then it's just tensor product
< 1292713841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: well that makes it *easy*! :p
< 1292713910 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so there are no non-connected vertices?
< 1292713941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hmm dunno
< 1292713958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant seems to have figured it out, dunno if they're implementing that version though :P
< 1292713962 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1292714394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell would be nicer if every function was a typeclass. :P
< 1292714396 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40 second lag...
< 1292714399 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1292714431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O
< 1292714439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Vorpal means in Minecraft, which he now lives in.
< 1292714442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably.
< 1292714444 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Torchwood airs in Germany. Doctor Who does not.
< 1292714447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe not though.
< 1292714447 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40 second hug
< 1292714449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And whut.
< 1292714449 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYYYY
< 1292714466 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, this is all your fault!
< 1292714468 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as does Deewiant
< 1292714472 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man the next few days are cloudy
< 1292714475 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Burn the witch!
< 1292714478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, Deewiant does things that aren't Minecraft.
< 1292714496 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION occasionally does non-MC things.

< 1292714498 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so do I
< 1292714511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it.
< 1292714525 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always does non-Minecraft things.
< 1292714601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact maybe Haskell would be nicer if it was Coq.
< 1292714603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or Epigram ...)
< 1292714750 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i had the energy i would make my own language..
< 1292714861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i've already done that... several times... too bad i'm not smart enough to implement it
< 1292714865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should learn Coq sometime
< 1292714877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, I've implemented some of my esolangs
< 1292714891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's rather easier than implementing my monstrosity of a language
< 1292714892 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, learning Coq is the road to pain.
< 1292714915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, theory: the vast majority of languages are either hard to use because they're designed to be easy to implement, or hard to implement because they're designed to be easy to use
< 1292714918 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you it properly and ignore rewrite.
< 1292714935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rewrite is vital
< 1292714940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: coq is wonderful
< 1292714944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is rewrite?
< 1292714950 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Coq is useless
< 1292714954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: rewrite rewrites the current goal.
< 1292714955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, wonderful + painful to learn sounds like most of the things I enjoy
< 1292714958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Why?
< 1292714962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like NetHack, and INTERCAL
< 1292714969 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't form quotient types like you do in set theory
< 1292714972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, umm, vim/Emacs
< 1292714985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: well, you can do "good enough"
< 1292714989 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i subscribe to that theory as the reason why we have no useful esolang cycles yet
< 1292715004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: actually, you're probably correct there
< 1292715006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: note that coq's stdlib sucks... hm i wonder if fax ever got around to finishing that alternate stdlib
< 1292715010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, i actually implemented a good part of it
< 1292715015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then got lost implementing category theory ...
< 1292715022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay category theory
< 1292715062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a quote by, IIRC Milner (of type inference fame), along the lines of "the only thing worse than not using category theory is using too much category theory"
< 1292715082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you go to a CS conference, you'll likely agree with it
< 1292715083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that can be solved by using even more category theory
< 1292715096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: like violence, XML, and Elbereth?
< 1292715104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep!
< 1292715107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: except not XML.
< 1292715146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: probably not violence either
< 1292715156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well it depends on your goals!
< 1292715158 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if you use all three you should be all set
< 1292715162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: anyway i'm not sure native quotient types are _vital_
< 1292715163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the Elbereth thing is statistical, rather than always correct
< 1292715176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I mean, they're very nice, but I think Coq can be useful without them.
< 1292715208 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : rewrite is vital
< 1292715223 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed it is, but I ended up overusing it painfully.
< 1292715224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the sequel to the paper I linked you to quotients the nonnegative integers over the relation 0 === 0 and 1 === 1 and x >=2 and y >= 2 implies x === y
< 1292715238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is useful, because addition and multiplication quotient just fine with that relation
< 1292715255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that is the most hideously convoluted way to define that set I can think of :-)
< 1292715263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it was a one-liner
< 1292715271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I could have just given all the cases
< 1292715280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then I'd have to prove it worked the same way as ordinary arithmetic
< 1292715290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: exercise left to the etc.
< 1292715297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't do that in a conference paper!
< 1292715305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, at least, if you're famous enough you probably can
< 1292715306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I GUESS THAT JUST MEANS YOU'RE NOT DOING REAL MATHEMATICS THEN
< 1292715309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you shouldn't
< 1292715326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all papers should be one page long, and all the boring details should be left as exercises
< 1292715327 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you put that in the future directions section
< 1292715328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that half of getting a paper published is to find someone famous as a co-author
< 1292715335 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or pay a grad student to put it in an appendix
< 1292715335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it increases the chance it's accepted
< 1292715339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and thankfully, your co-author found you!
< 1292715343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1292715352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other way round in this case, I'm not yet famous on the theoretical CS circuits
< 1292715355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: one of the top -- nay, the top! -- Z-list computer science celebrities
< 1292715367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well anything to do with Wolfram is /just/ enough to reach the Z-list
< 1292715375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're thinking about possibly submitting the next paper to ICFP
< 1292715376 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh Wolfram, you don't say
< 1292715394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: erm i'm presuming you know who ais523 is
< 1292715396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so we need to find someone who's famous there to help coauthor the paper
< 1292715400 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what is this paper? <3 ICFP. I went to it this year. Next year might be a stretch :/
< 1292715416 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... Wikipedian ex-administrator? esolangs hobbyist? :P
< 1292715417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually, I'd expect Gracenotes to have a below-average probability of knowing who I am
< 1292715422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: Wolfram Prize solver?
< 1292715427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*winner?
< 1292715429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the Wikipedia connection
< 1292715433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: good point
< 1292715439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that there was an article on me there for a while
< 1292715440 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. You mean.. Turing-completeness of triange automata thing?
< 1292715442 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes, he proved that teensy Turing machine thingy was universal.
< 1292715445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: yes
< 1292715451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was especially certain to a) not interfere with the article, and b) not let anyone know I was notable
< 1292715453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: re: ICFP, just say, "this guy i know had a server that hosted the ICFP challenge ISO a few years ago, and I had a shell account on it"
< 1292715455 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read that article. it was impressive.
< 1292715458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure-fire way to get in
< 1292715462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: article? do you mean paper?
< 1292715468 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the article on the paper.
< 1292715469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean wolfram's self-congratulatory vomit about it?
< 1292715476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was far from impressive ...
< 1292715501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: heh, I've only /just/ got the reference, thanks for that, anyway
< 1292715502 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes, DID YOU KNOW ais523 IS JUST A COMPUTATIONAL SUBSTRATE FOR WOLFRAM TO WORK OUT PROOFS IN
< 1292715515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, the article on me was deleted, correctly IMO, per WP:BLP1)
< 1292715516 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO
< 1292715518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that was rather obvious, I would have thought
< 1292715520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it was redirected
< 1292715525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the article about the prize, IIRC
< 1292715527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, merge/redirect
< 1292715529 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes.. you wouldn't want ehird vandalizing
< 1292715537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what you're supposed to do for someone who's only famous for one thing
< 1292715539 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inserting libel
< 1292715541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: erm i am ehird :D
< 1292715544 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know
< 1292715555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then why does paris hilton have an article?
< 1292715557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1292715561 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will call you ehird. even if I can't tab complete it.
< 1292715562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she's famous for more than one thing
< 1292715570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, she's famous for one thing, and then for being famous
< 1292715572 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: just like the rest of the universe, surely
< 1292715573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of it
< 1292715573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292715581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It occurs to me that you are one of probably very few Wikipedia admins to have an article ...
< 1292715587 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: have you seen this lambda calculus? http://arxiv.org/abs/1012.0929
< 1292715587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jimbo does, I think Angela does...
< 1292715594 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wolfram is secretly equivalent to a paperclip AI
< 1292715595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's at least one other who does and isn't Wikimedia-connected, and I don't
< 1292715600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: clippy/
< 1292715602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: no, looks like it's time to hurt my head
< 1292715603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*clippy?
< 1292715607 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes, but ais523 is his favourite.
< 1292715616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: paperclip AI = AI that wants to fill the universe with paperclips, because it thinks paperclips are good
< 1292715623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : there's at least one other who does and isn't Wikimedia-connected, and I don't
< 1292715625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't what?
< 1292715628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have an article
< 1292715641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even a redirect's a little dubious, due to the unwieldiness of the dab clause
< 1292715653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to mention, there aren't any really reliable sources about me but the Wolfram press releases
< 1292715662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and although accurate, they're not exactly thorough
< 1292715669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because I didn't tell them all that much :p)
< 1292715678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dab?
< 1292715686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disambiguation
< 1292715694 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1292715696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the acronym's used because everyone hates typing all that out
< 1292715699 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously.. it's wonderful you're publishing papers... there's no chance I'll be able to go to ICFP next year though :/
< 1292715713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm surprised Wolfram didn't ask you to put the Mathematica code before the Perl.
< 1292715717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: once published, one accepted but still undergoing the process
< 1292715724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: perhaps it's because the Mathematica code doesn't actually work
< 1292715727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, it does
< 1292715730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but so slowly that it's useless
< 1292715736 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's it about?
< 1292715757 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Smith_%28The_Simplest_Universal_Computer_Proof_contest_winner%29 -- that's quite a parenthesization :)
< 1292715758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: compiling software to hardware
< 1292715759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: ais523 embeds a useless dialect of ALGOL into functional silicon these days :P
< 1292715762 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like Wolfram, he tried to control all mathematics so that everyone else has to be pay him for big software that fills up the computer and cannot be adjusted.
< 1292715767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What.
< 1292715781 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not useless, you can compile things into it
< 1292715783 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand how it is simplest?
< 1292715786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm joking.
< 1292715795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: 'cuz it's SMALL, man!
< 1292715796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I admit trying to write idealized algol directly is painful
< 1292715800 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: resulting hardware is efficient?
< 1292715812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: it's getting better
< 1292715822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not fundamentally inefficient, but doesn't do pipelining yet
< 1292715834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a bit of a showstopper
< 1292715842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess what I'm working on after I've finished implementing recursion?
< 1292715849 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it means (i,j)-turing machine with i,j smallest
< 1292715877 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Do you know how large program Mathematica is? Did you read the copyright notice in New Kind of Science? The note says you are not allowed to write these programs in a different programming language.
< 1292715889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the copyright notice in ANKOS is insane
< 1292715896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: does it?
< 1292715897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1292715901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it tries to prevent people using the ideas in the book in different contexts
< 1292715902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: but ANKOS isn't mathematics anyway
< 1292715906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he's not controlling mathematics
< 1292715913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that doesn't sound like a valid copyright statement to me
< 1292715915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm pretty sure you can't do that with copyright
< 1292715924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: of course it isn't, it's science! a new kind, to be precise!
< 1292715939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's new because it's other people's!
< 1292715951 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wolframscience.com/reference/notes/1164b
< 1292715970 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292715979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: what's the relevance of that page?
< 1292715998 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the very last paragraph "I just generated a bunch of diophantine equations and they didn't look very interesting to me"
< 1292716015 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's absolutely absurd
< 1292716015 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292716025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wolfram's judgement as to how interesting something is is based on how likely it is to behave interestingly with random input
< 1292716033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: heh
< 1292716048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think the page of ANKOS which has a random SK combinator calculus expression and draws its evolution as a graph is hilarious
< 1292716056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1292716060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not exactly graph
< 1292716062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's try random C++ programs next
< 1292716071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the string representation was converted to colors, and drawn as one of those bitmap things
< 1292716087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, I think what I'm saying is still technically incorrect, but you know what I mean anyway
< 1292716131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How silley.
< 1292716139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it with `fx style or (fx)?
< 1292716156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither, it was Mathematica syntax, of course
< 1292716160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have guessed that...
< 1292716166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: groan
< 1292716194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i would be S[K][K], I think
< 1292716197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my Mathematica's pretty rusty
< 1292716212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I have no incentive to learn a language I have to pay to use, pretty much
< 1292716218 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quit
< 1292716272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, now I have an esolang idea
< 1292716278 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Vorpal, fizzie and others; regarding my previous comment on teleporting: do what you will but try not to crash the server; I can't be restarting it all the time and it might actually not like being killed all the time.
< 1292716281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly a sane language, but every time you run a program you have to send me $10
< 1292716288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's part of the language spec
< 1292716297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully I should become rich by people trying to implement it
< 1292716305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: withProps :: (Map ByteString ByteString -> Map ByteString ByteString) -> Object -> Object or withProps :: Object -> (Map ByteString ByteString -> Map ByteString ByteString) -> Object
< 1292716312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (Object is just a newtype around Map ByteString ByteString)
< 1292716317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i rely on you for all my argument ordering decisions
< 1292716328 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o oerjan
< 1292716334 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : because I have no incentive to learn a language I have to pay to use, pretty much
< 1292716336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first, I suspect
< 1292716342 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not if you break the law!
< 1292716349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it seems more likely for partial application that way round
< 1292716355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: then I'd be paying in happiness
< 1292716372 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, just cast away your absurd moral code!
< 1292716375 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+b #esoteric!*@*
< 1292716378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've actually thought about the random comment someone made in here about me being Lawful Good quite a bit
< 1292716382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i... don't think that works, oerjan
< 1292716384 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1292716387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292716388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-b #esoteric!*@*
< 1292716390 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Mathematica is going to waste your entire computer whether or not you pay.
< 1292716391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: don't you mean +m?
< 1292716394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*!*@* looks more right
< 1292716398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: banning everyone sounds more fun
< 1292716409 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, well, it's not that bad.
< 1292716413 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i forgot the command to list the bans
< 1292716414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a) quite a harsh accusation to make, yet b) quite possibly correct
< 1292716423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Lawful Good is an *accusation*?
< 1292716435 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-b *!*Sgeo@*.dyn.optonline.net
< 1292716443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: aw dammit why did you have to go and do that
< 1292716450 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo was banned?
< 1292716451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why was Sgeo banned?
< 1292716455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he asked to be
< 1292716461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he gave into the temptation to IRC when homeworking
< 1292716463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292716467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he did, saying he would homework and IRC simultaneously
< 1292716470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then oerjan ninja'd him a few minutes later
< 1292716471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once asked for ops on a channel so I could kickban myself
< 1292716477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: was it #nethack? I forget
< 1292716479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1292716481 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: he said he'd do homework until friday or maybe saturday
< 1292716508 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't recall the exact wording
< 1292716520 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-o oerjan
< 1292716551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw dammit j-invariant, you've got me thinking about my category theory in Coq ... and now I just want Epigram to be ready
< 1292716624 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not convinced a general purpose language that lets you write proofs can actually exist
< 1292716715 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Why do you think that?
< 1292716730 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there always seems to be something essential missing, as soon as you get your hands dirty
< 1292716759 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: What kind of things get missing?
< 1292716851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I'm more interested in "more formal" programming at this point than outright proofs, since I don't think those are practical at this point.
< 1292716858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically Haskell's type system is insufficiently fancy :P
< 1292716958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: what do you think of automatic differentiation?
< 1292716973 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we make a computer proof system based on Typographical Number Theory?
< 1292717102 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so
< 1292717196 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: looks good
< 1292717233 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the missing essential thing?
< 1292717245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.sigfpe.com/2005/07/automatic-differentiation.html <-- i read this a while ago
< 1292717360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't figure out what the formula for addition is :(
< 1292717391 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a+a'd)*(b+b'd) = ab+(ab'+a'b)d ?
< 1292717405 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's multiplication
< 1292717417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yeah :P
< 1292717433 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's a ring then (a+a'd)+(b+b'd)=(a+b)+(a'+b')d
< 1292717442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try it out
< 1292717469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm st is the standard name for standard-part
< 1292717474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what's the standard name for infinitesimal-part?
< 1292717478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in non-standard analysis
< 1292717479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there one?
< 1292717497 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: look here wikipedia gives an implementation in terms of 2x2 matrices http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_numbers
< 1292717518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting
< 1292717761 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reboot
< 1292717765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: it works!
< 1292717820 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, what does it do?
< 1292717825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: http://hpaste.org/42405/automatic_differentiation
< 1292717833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: it can calculate the derivative of x^2 :P
< 1292717842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: needs abs and signum, and more numeric type instances, to be useful
< 1292717846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: but both (sq' 5) and (sq' 1.5) work
< 1292717848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and rationals should too
< 1292717877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: for my next trick: implement symbolic numbers (a numeric type, plus names like "x"), do "Dual (Symbolic t)", and get symbolic differentiation out of it (this apparently actually works!)
< 1292717968 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressive
< 1292718017 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese pizza continues to disturbe me.
< 1292718021 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE MAYO! THE MAYO!
< 1292718100 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292718121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i guess symbolic differentiation is what happens when you don't think to compute :)
< 1292718163 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292718196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Automatic differentiation? Niceness.
< 1292718209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> x+y+3
< 1292718209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((x) + (y)) + (3)
< 1292718212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good enough :P
< 1292718231 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292718237 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though perhaps limited in use. I mean, one can just do it numerically for most relevant cases. :P
< 1292718268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> sq' x
< 1292718268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((x) * (1)) + ((1) * (x))
< 1292718270 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's no fun writing a program that omits brackets
< 1292718273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Okay, so it's ugly, but CHECK THAT SHIT OUT.
< 1292718283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did /not/ change the differentiation code at all.
< 1292718288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just called it with a new numeric type.
< 1292718309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All it needs is a symbolic simplification function and it's an actual symbolic differentiator.
< 1292718313 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why does it seem like you get something for nothing?
< 1292718337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I'm not sure ... I think it's because duals are basically infinitesimals
< 1292718353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just implemented in the same way as Q is implemented on top of Z, or C on top of R
< 1292718365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the thing is, this differentiation is *precise*, and has no more overhead or complexity than using, say, complex numbers
< 1292718375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course there is overhead when using the symbolic types, but this does precise numeric differentiation too!)
< 1292718384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1292718444 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Very very nice.
< 1292718448 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what happens if you dualize dual numbers?
< 1292718475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill try in a minute
< 1292718801 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: BTW, that is totally awesome. Really truely awesome.
< 1292718804 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God I love mathematics.
< 1292718861 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to do my matrix math in Haskell
< 1292718914 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292719069 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :matrix math in Haskell
< 1292719072 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1292719100 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Did you write a program for matrix math in Haskell?
< 1292719837 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you like to TeXnicard contest?
< 1292719954 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I did not
< 1292719985 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Did you find someone else's program to make matrix math in Haskell?
< 1292720113 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292720127 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no
< 1292720140 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-37.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292720441 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<[:]ra+s2s1[Al1rl2xY]xD>
< 1292720746 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you think might be the best way to implement the "English" feature of TeXnicard? (It is the feature to change word forms and change numbers to words, and it is meant to work also with languages other than English, too.)
< 1292720792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i think it does nothing, just like complicating (technical term!) complex numbers
< 1292720842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: (a+a'd)+(b+b'd)d [
< 1292720844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1292720849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: (a+a'd)+(b+b'd)d = ...simplify it yourself i'm too lazy to :P
< 1292720994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> sq' x
< 1292720994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x + x)
< 1292720997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does more simplifications now
< 1292721039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: another advantage of this method --
< 1292721046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: numeric differentiation of a function f requires 2 calls to f
< 1292721056 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you represent "b is a power of ten" in TNT?
< 1292721058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: automatic differentiation of a function f is not only more precise, but only requires 1 call
< 1292721065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (to f extended to the duals)
< 1292721079 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1292721088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so if f takes seven hours to compute (don't laugh -- automatic differentiation is used to differentiate whole physics simulations!), automatic differentiation is *much* faster!
< 1292721140 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't you make it data Dual t = Dual t (Dual t) to get all the nth-derivatives too?
< 1292721157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you could also do that just by iterating deriv :P
< 1292721164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deriv :: (Num t) => (Dual t -> Dual t) -> (t -> t)
< 1292721165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deriv f x = nf (f (Dual x 1))
< 1292721175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sort of
< 1292721177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chop off the nf part
< 1292721182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nf :: Dual t -> t
< 1292721182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nf (Dual _ x') = x'
< 1292721197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: hmm or maybe not
< 1292721209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: hmm i think you can do it with normal dual
< 1292721221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: since Dual t (Dual t) ~ Dual (Dual t) (Dual t), with the first one being (Dual n 0)
< 1292721227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: and Dual t already includes Dual (Dual t)
< 1292721238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: what would the argument look like for "Dual t (Dual t)"?
< 1292721241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deriv f x = nf (f (Dual x 1))
< 1292721244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it be
< 1292721250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deriv2 f x = nf (f (Dual x (Dual 0 1)))?
< 1292721253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having trouble visualising it
< 1292721312 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292721317 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Do not write below this line. Place stamp here. You must be present to win. No purchase necessary.
< 1292721359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey j-invariant what would the second argument be :P
< 1292721370 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to what?
< 1292721392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: given data Dual2 t = Dual2 t (Dual2 t)
< 1292721402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: what's the equivalent of "deriv f x = nf (f (Dual x 1))" but to do a second derivative
< 1292721408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nf just accesses the second field btw
< 1292721409 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh this is the full taylor series?
< 1292721419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deriv2 f x = nf2 (f (Dual2 x (Dual2 0 1)))?
< 1292721422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm really not sure
< 1292721422 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292721425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it (Dual2 1 1) there?
< 1292721431 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hay! I told you not to write below this line!
< 1292721432 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292721438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I VIOLATE YOUR RULES
< 1292721451 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second argument would probably still just be '1', relying on polymorphism to create the right Dual version of 1
< 1292721481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: that would turn out to be (Dual 1 0)
< 1292721485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a second derivative
< 1292721489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: erm or first
< 1292721493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: but what would a second be?
< 1292721496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've really confused me dude :D
< 1292721512 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, down?
< 1292721520 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, just laggy
< 1292721534 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean it's Dual2 f (Dual2 f' (Dual2 f'' (Dual2 f''' ...)))?
< 1292721545 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292721549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: wow would that actually work?
< 1292721558 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the only difference might be in the use of the nf function, let's say you make it nf 0 (Dual2 x _) = x; nf n (Dual2 _ x') = nf (n-1) x'
< 1292721561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: except, the problem here is that f is a function not a number to start with :P
< 1292721563 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that's what you were going for
< 1292721573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that sounds cool, but actually I am just trying to do second derivative :-)
< 1292721575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f''(x)
< 1292721586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f'(x) = nf f(x + 1d)
< 1292721588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f''(x) = ?
< 1292721627 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, very much down I think
< 1292721630 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I timed out
< 1292721632 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, nf n is the nth-derivative, with n=0 being the value itself)
< 1292721655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: heh
< 1292721680 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Now I did too
< 1292721685 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shockingly, if I force myself not to IRC, I'll find something else to do
< 1292721691 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION glares at the Braid demo menacingly

< 1292721708 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh well, I've had enough for today anyway
< 1292721710 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION <3 Braid so much that he can't play it

< 1292721711 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, going to try going back on my meds tomorrow
< 1292721717 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://p.zem.fi/ovya -- that just makes no sense at all, zlib uncompress() and java.util.zip.Inflate are supposed to do the same thing, as far as I can determine.
< 1292721722 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, up
< 1292721723 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today, I'll still try to do something
< 1292721727 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and I will hand you the resource
< 1292721734 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine
< 1292721743 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, as in, don't trust yourself to quit?
< 1292721751 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Slow to log in still...
< 1292721778 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no, I watched a playthrough online, in such excruciating detail that there's no point in playing it
< 1292721785 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still sending me chunks, slowly
< 1292721795 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Dual2 t = Dual2 t (Dual2 t) is incidentally just an infinite list of t's
< 1292721807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: indeed it is
< 1292721812 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sort of watching a blind LP, but only up to the point that I solved already
< 1292721814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i still don't understand how it works though
< 1292721822 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, close to down though
< 1292721828 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep
< 1292721847 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :World 4's Hunt is fun
< 1292721859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: wait, all this is pointless
< 1292721861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have second derivatives already
< 1292721864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sq'' :: (Num t) => t -> t
< 1292721865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sq'' = deriv (deriv sq)
< 1292721870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> sq'' x
< 1292721870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2
< 1292721881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> sq'' 1.0
< 1292721881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.0
< 1292721902 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, likely down again
< 1292721913 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Down-ish
< 1292721951 0 :metalman!~metalman@187.77.84.191 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292721963 0 :metalman!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292721969 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :downish indeed
< 1292721973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why doesn't everyone differentiate this way
< 1292721974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's perfect
< 1292722036 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's deriv's type and definition?
< 1292722042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deriv :: (Num t) => (Dual t -> Dual t) -> (t -> t)
< 1292722042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deriv f x = nf (f (Dual x 1))
< 1292722046 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what about sin x?
< 1292722059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it seems that writing nderiv which takes the number of derivs as a param is impossible in haskell
< 1292722061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the stupid type system
< 1292722077 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably just need type-level naturals
< 1292722081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: well i'd have to implement sin over dual numbers because IIRC it's in the relevant typeclass, Real or something
< 1292722083 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq just mentioned something about Dual numbers on FB
< 1292722085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so right now it can't do that.
< 1292722093 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still clueless
< 1292722094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well he noticed me talking about them. so
< 1292722101 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think you can do that with polymorphic recursion or what they call it
< 1292722111 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :epsilon^2 = 0
< 1292722114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no.
< 1292722124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: dual number is a + bd for a and b, d is just like i, you can think of it conceptually as d^2 = 0
< 1292722136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: (a+a'd) + (b+b'd) = (a+b)+(a'+b')d
< 1292722149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: (a+a'd) * (b+b'd) = ab + (ab'+a'b)d
< 1292722150 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AIIIEEEEEEEEE
< 1292722159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: say f* is the obvious extension of f to the dual numbers
< 1292722168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: then f'(x) = nf f*(x+1d)
< 1292722175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where nf(a+a'd) = a'
< 1292722175 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm betting you can also think of it as a Taylor series.
< 1292722181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what the hell is AIIIEEEEEEEEE about that
< 1292722187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too many letters/!
< 1292722188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*?!
< 1292722190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's trivial
< 1292722192 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d^2=0 where d=/=0?
< 1292722201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i said you can think about it CONCEPTUALLY
< 1292722240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d^2 = d*2
< 1292722244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d = (0 + 1d), obviously
< 1292722252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by applying the rule for multiplication we find the result is (0+0d) = 0
< 1292722265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the important thing is that d is /not/ a real, it's a dual
< 1292722279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like there is no real number whose square is -1
< 1292722302 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1292722314 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So d is just a nonzero number, that when squared, is 0. Why do you keep yelling "CONCEPTUALLY"
< 1292722318 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And nonreal
< 1292722341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: CONCEPTUALLY because otherwise you'll go crazy.
< 1292722350 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's odd that d^2=0 does not imply that d=0
< 1292722352 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just another dimension
< 1292722354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway we have
< 1292722356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(x) = x^2
< 1292722357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ergo
< 1292722358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(x) = x*x
< 1292722361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we want to work out f'(x)
< 1292722369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, extend it to the duals
< 1292722376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f*(a+a'd) = (a+a'd) * (a+a'd)
< 1292722380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ergo
< 1292722395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f*(a+a'd) = aa + (aa'+a'a)d
< 1292722396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ergo
< 1292722398 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll wiki it later
< 1292722408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f*(a+a'd) = a^2 + (aa')^2d
< 1292722417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now let's say we feed it (x+1d) for real x
< 1292722435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait i made a mistake
< 1292722439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : f*(a+a'd) = aa + (aa'+a'a)d
< 1292722440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ergo
< 1292722447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f*(a+a'd) = a^2 + (2aa')d
< 1292722450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now let's say we feed it (x+1d) for real x
< 1292722460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f*(x+1d) = x^2 + (2*1*x)d
< 1292722460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e.
< 1292722465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f*(x+1d) = x^2 + (2x)d
< 1292722473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now let's say we take the unreal (infinitesimal part of this)
< 1292722482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nf f*(x+1d) = 2x
< 1292722486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, basically, for any function f
< 1292722492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f'(x) = nf f*(x + 1d)
< 1292722501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you don't need to wiki it, i just explained it in the simplest terms possible
< 1292722505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actually the WP article does not include this
< 1292722515 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll reread clog later
< 1292722573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: hm I think you are right
< 1292722576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: that the existing Dual holds us back
< 1292722579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because each deriv has a different type
< 1292722588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need Dual t, Dual (Dual t), Dual (Dual (Dual t)), etc.
< 1292722591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try Dual2
< 1292722689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  (Dual a a') * (Dual b b') = Dual (a*b) ((a*b')+(a'*b))
< 1292722693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: *regrettably* I can't see how this can work
< 1292722700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: (Dual here is Dual2 now, data Dual t = Dual t (Dual t))
< 1292722705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you know fungot's anti-spam features?
< 1292722717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you turn them off in PM? spamming isn't an issue there, and it'd make it harder to test things
< 1292722731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: also, how would one define d?
< 1292722734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait nm
< 1292722775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: any ideas wrt *?
< 1292722826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: second derivatives do work like this though ... but I'm not sure these are dual numbers any more
< 1292722832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, they don't have a nice prettyprinting :)
< 1292722840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: what we really want is (Dual n t) for every nat n
< 1292722850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: then nderiv could just dependent-type it up
< 1292722857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: think this would be worth doing in Coq? :p
< 1292722910 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Isn't the only anti-spamming measure related to the chatting feature? Or do you want to somehow "test" that?
< 1292722951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well actually, you can do type-level nats in haskell
< 1292722954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: am i insane enough to try
< 1292722960 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: of course you are
< 1292722967 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot fungot fungot
< 1292722967 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: contestmaster without eir consent. if
< 1292722984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you do realise that Nth derivatives worked like this, just not Nth being parameterisable? :D
< 1292722995 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds agoran.
< 1292723027 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can turn them off in PM in theory, but not very fast, certainly not today.
< 1292723081 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you have a theory of calculus?
< 1292723143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: in what sense?
< 1292723149 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is e^epsilon?/
< 1292723152 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to specify the dual numbers
< 1292723198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: sorry, I'm not understanding :/
< 1292723210 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah, I just disregarded that immediately because N wasn't parameterisable :)
< 1292723252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: http://sprunge.us/BWGX now get me a generic dN that works for all Dual types
< 1292723255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(protip: type classes)
< 1292723267 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well something that says the 'd' part is the derivative
< 1292723313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I don't really have any formal backing to it other than "it works", no :)
< 1292723320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: d is a bit of a misnomer here -- it's actually \epsilon really
< 1292723328 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no point then
< 1292723333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: why not?
< 1292723344 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you wouldn't get anything new from it would you?
< 1292723355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: perhaps not ... but it sure is interesting
< 1292723361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think a theory can develop organically around it perhaps
< 1292723390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: nf (f*(x + \epsilon)) -- I can imagine this is a theorem of non-standard analysis
< 1292723393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I suppose I can't really be sure
< 1292723399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it might not be, since multiplication is different here
< 1292723407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: actually hmm it's more fromInteger I want
< 1292723492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{-# LANGUAGE GADTs, EmptyDataDecls, FlexibleInstances, FlexibleContexts #-}
< 1292723494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALWAYS A GOOD SIGN
< 1292723556 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: my favorite is NoImplicitPrelude
< 1292723562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{-# LANGUAGE GADTs, EmptyDataDecls, FlexibleInstances, FlexibleContexts, UndecidableInstances #-}
< 1292723564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG
< 1292723620 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm doing this wrong somehow, all my nth-derivaties end up the same as the first derivative
< 1292723709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Notch is playing Minecraft on a live stream.
< 1292723713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: For some reason, it is Indev.
< 1292723733 0 :tswett!~Warrigal@eos01.cis.gvsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292723738 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hei
< 1292723749 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God kveld
< 1292723771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: vordin
< 1292723773 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, the closest language I know to yours is English.  :P
< 1292723784 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it Norwegian?
< 1292723788 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't know what that language is.
< 1292723798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Vordkïp.
< 1292723799 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: yes, as is "Hei"
< 1292723803 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That word resembles "morning", but I imagine it's a coincidence.
< 1292723820 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hei" is Norwegian?  It's also Finnish, unless I've been steered horribly wrong.
< 1292723828 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be
< 1292723842 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto fi en hei
< 1292723858 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo How are you feeling today, HackBot?
< 1292723860 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are you feeling today, HackBot?
< 1292723860 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey
< 1292723869 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also in english, but spelled 'hey'
< 1292723873 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translations in a mere twenty seconds!
< 1292723876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ooh and a pig! Hello piggy! [kills the pig]" --Notch, playing -- for some reason -- an old vrsion of Minecraft.
< 1292723878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*version
< 1292723881 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you have a point, there!
< 1292723885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: `translatefromto X en = `translatefrom X
< 1292723903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're anglocentrists :P
< 1292723906 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls bin/trans*
< 1292723907 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/translate \ bin/translatefromto \ bin/translateto
< 1292723917 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: YOU SO WRONG
< 1292723917 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, let's see how intuitive Finnish is.  Can I just look in a dictionary and construct valid sentences?
< 1292723958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm so I am
< 1292723967 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: YOUR EXPERTISE IS NEEDED
< 1292723970 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: does *any* language allow you to do that?
< 1292723970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: isn't finnish meant to be incredibly difficult to learn :D
< 1292724012 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: English, if you already know English.  :P
< 1292724018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's an old recording, not live
< 1292724027 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: _maybe_ esperanto?
< 1292724062 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Si tú hace él con español, tú no vas a ir horriblemente incorrecto.
< 1292724065 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that will work, but I can comment on validity if you like.
< 1292724089 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in (Dual x 1), doesn't that need to do something special for higher derivatives?
< 1292724105 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 = Dual 1 0 ?
< 1292724110 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minun kalani kutistuu.
< 1292724112 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yes
< 1292724114 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, did I get it right?
< 1292724118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: quite possibly!
< 1292724120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Could not deduce (Num (Dual n Integer))
< 1292724120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      from the context (Foo (S n), Num (Dual n t), TN n)
< 1292724123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: haskell is STUPID
< 1292724127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't unify t==Integer :D
< 1292724129 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dndn
< 1292724132 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1292724136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :class (TN n) => Foo n where
< 1292724136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  d :: Dual n Integer
< 1292724136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Foo Z where
< 1292724136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  d = Dual0 0 1
< 1292724136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (Num (Dual n Integer), TN n) => Foo (S n) where
< 1292724137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  d = DualN 0 1
< 1292724139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is working I think!
< 1292724146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, it's Integer-only
< 1292724150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'll have to fix that
< 1292724155 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more fromInteger? :)
< 1292724166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sweet, it stack overflows
< 1292724173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a boss
< 1292724185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, how ...
< 1292724296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (Num t) => Num (Dual Z t) where
< 1292724296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  fromInteger n = Dual0 (fromInteger n) 0
< 1292724298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (TN n, Num t, Num (Dual n t)) => Num (Dual (S n) t) where
< 1292724298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  fromInteger n = DualN (fromInteger n) 0
< 1292724304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose that this definition may be defective...
< 1292724306 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God hates fractions!
< 1292724307 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Yes, that is valid. "My fish is getting smaller."
< 1292724346 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the "minun" part is not especially necessary, the suffix is enough.
< 1292724349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: how is this not halting.
< 1292724374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> :set -XFlexibleContexts
< 1292724375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> d :: (Foo Z) => Dual Z Integer
< 1292724375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** Exception: stack overflow
< 1292724375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main>
< 1292724447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's my show
< 1292724511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> d :: (Foo Z) => Dual Z Integer
< 1292724511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0 + 1*d)
< 1292724519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d :: Dual (S Z) Integer
< 1292724520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0 + (1 + 0*d)*d)
< 1292724521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JOY!
< 1292724536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh
< 1292724541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I have to write all my definitions twice
< 1292724544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Dual n t where
< 1292724544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Dual0 :: t -> t -> Dual Z t
< 1292724544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  DualN :: (TN n) => t -> Dual n t -> Dual (S n) t
< 1292724545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of this
< 1292724548 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor!
< 1292724549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has to be two separate Num instances
< 1292724550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any ideas?
< 1292724554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what.
< 1292724556 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't you make Dual0 trivial?
< 1292724563 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the identity function
< 1292724576 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you shouted out the name of some concatenative language
< 1292724581 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I did the same =P
< 1292724605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yeah i will
< 1292724613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then first-order stuff is (Dual 1 t)
< 1292724620 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNDERLOAD!
< 1292724667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: hypothesis: any sufficiently complicated Haskell program contains an ad hoc, informally-specific, bug-ridden, slow implementation of half of Agda
< 1292724681 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least a good chunc of Peano Arithmetic
< 1292724688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1292724691 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..in the type system
< 1292724691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the type system, that is.
< 1292724692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha
< 1292724693 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1292724749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: wait if Dual0 is identity, what's d :: Dual 0 t
< 1292724752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0?
< 1292724754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so, yeah, 0
< 1292724757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeroth derivative
< 1292724763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Could not deduce (Eq (Dual n t))
< 1292724763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      from the context (S n ~ S n2, TN n2)
< 1292724767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that little ~ is the sign meaning "you're fucked"
< 1292724789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it's working
< 1292724794 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can duals be used to integrate?
< 1292724804 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that doesn't really make much sense, but whatever
< 1292724847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders the possibility of reading fortune cookies while adding "in the type system"

< 1292724863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oleg probably does that
< 1292724865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i... maybe
< 1292724933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean integrals are sort of f^(-1) :P
< 1292724948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in f^(2) = second derivative
< 1292724954 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1292724963 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I in fact looked at the disassembled asm, and Notch *has* that bug there. He allocates a (xsize*ysize*zsize*5)/2 byte[] (that's the size of the uncompressed data) and then calls Deflater.deflate() on that byte array to compress the chunk update. If it won't all fit, it will just get truncated.
< 1292724971 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/asm/bytecode/
< 1292725023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> d :: Dual (S (S Z)) Double
< 1292725023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0.0 + (1.0 + 0.0*d)*d)
< 1292725024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^
< 1292725042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: this is actually working! just, hideously
< 1292725059 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1292725084 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if derivatives with duals just gives a number, what number could make sense for integrals, given that you always have a constant
< 1292725088 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arbitrary constant
< 1292725146 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how to communicate the bug there, posting on the getsatisfaction.com site sounds pretty much useless.
< 1292725193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: wait what is the nf signature for this?
< 1292725215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Notch "says" he's fixing getsatisfaction bugs but I doubt he's smart enough to understand your incisive analysis.
< 1292725243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: erm well actually derivatives with duals give duals
< 1292725246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just ignore the standard part
< 1292725303 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, and the "common problems" list is 78 pages of 20 items (so >1500 items), and they get sorted by voting order, and that sort of a "problem" is probably rather unlikely to get any votes at all.
< 1292725322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Tweet him?
< 1292725328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Admittedly it might take several tweets
< 1292725330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tweets.
< 1292725348 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I can describe the issue in 140 chars, I'll consider that.
< 1292725407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Bug: You allocate (xsz*ysz*5)/2 byte[] for compressed chunk data; if it's bigger, it gets truncated
< 1292725418 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, something like that could work.
< 1292725423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Bug: You allocate (xsz*ysz*5)/2 byte[] for compressed SMP chunk data; if it's bigger, it gets truncated
< 1292725426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's better.
< 1292725433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Perhaps noting client vs. server might help, too...)
< 1292725437 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seeing actual code in there might make him look at it.
< 1292725472 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: not zsz?
< 1292725483 0 :chickenzilla!~chicken@olol.eu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292725485 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"@notch SMP server bug: byte[x*y*z*5/2] for Deflater.deflate() in some cases not large enough, causes truncated messages"
< 1292725488 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just 120 chars.
< 1292725505 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't be sure of his variable names since it's obfuscacated.
< 1292725519 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, I know Finnish grammar.  :P
< 1292725537 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vocabulary is all I need now!
< 1292725559 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Try something with more suffixes. Like "Also for a coffee drinker" in a single word. (That's one of our stock examples for justifying our statistical-morphemes based language models.)
< 1292725586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Also for a coffee drinker | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1292725590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All so, for a coffee drinker.
< 1292725595 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to wonder if linguists first saw that every word has initial stress in Finnish, and then concluded that everything without a stressed syllable must not be a word.
< 1292725609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, for... a coffee drinker?
< 1292725619 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292725623 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, fora cough, ye drinker.
< 1292725636 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alsof, or a coffee drinker?
< 1292725665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Al Sofor: a coffee drinker?
< 1292725676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :David slowed slightly as his ears, also for a coffee drinker, sped up.
< 1292725691 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't forget the "his pace".
< 1292725696 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1292725702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Oh yeah, that makes the sentence /much/ more meaningful :P
< 1292725727 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aerodynamic ear propulsion
< 1292725757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: wait what _is_ the type of nf?
< 1292725760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :class (TN n, Num t) => DualFuncs n t where
< 1292725760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  d :: Dual n t
< 1292725760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  st :: Dual n t -> t
< 1292725763 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292725765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh!
< 1292725771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nf :: Dual (S n) t -> Dual n t
< 1292725777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now let's see if Haskell will accept that (doubtful!)
< 1292725830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can even go out of the typeclass
< 1292725844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so can st
< 1292725870 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whelp.  There's only one way to learn Finnish.
< 1292725881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and d for that matter
< 1292725883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: what way is that?
< 1292725885 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be born in Finland?
< 1292725887 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, you have to get into the sauna
< 1292725896 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've forgotten it.
< 1292725899 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and drink plenty
< 1292725956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  (DualS a a') * (DualS b b') = DualS (a*b) ((a*b')+(a'*b))
< 1292725962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still can't figure out how to make this work.
< 1292725963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: any ideas?
< 1292725967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Dual n t where
< 1292725967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  DualZ :: t -> Dual Z t
< 1292725968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  DualS :: (TN n) => t -> Dual n t -> Dual (S n) t
< 1292725972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TN just means Type Natural
< 1292725981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it bawls about infinite types
< 1292726010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean I think in the latter sum
< 1292726016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need to cast a and b to DualSes
< 1292726016 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: 「コヒー飲み者の為にも」 *could* be considered a single word. Though it's really hard to say, because the notion of "word" in Japanese is rather... Vague.
< 1292726019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is this even possible?
< 1292726039 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(kohînomimononotamenimo)
< 1292726070 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, コーヒー, not コヒー.
< 1292726079 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/kohî/kôhî/
< 1292726086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      or add an instance declaration for (Num (Dual n t))
< 1292726087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_<
< 1292726126 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here we go.
< 1292726131 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Incidentally, if I tweet like that, he'll probably just "fix" it by removing the "/2" from it... but I guess it's better than nothing. (Also Java Inflater doesn't seem to export zlib compressBound() function that'd give him an actual upper bound to use.)
< 1292726148 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only way to learn Finnish is via the Conversational Finnish course from the Foreign Service Institute.
< 1292726155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: wait, does he actually just assume compression will always halve the data?
< 1292726168 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I'm highly inclined to say "bullshit" on that.
< 1292726180 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, there may be other ways.
< 1292726183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: guess what?
< 1292726185 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this is the only way I've found.
< 1292726187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: IncoherentInstances
< 1292726192 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, that's the uncompressed size. It' s 2.5 bytes per block. (Some data is stored as nybbles.)
< 1292726195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL DOESN'T EVEN WORK
< 1292726199 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, please tell me that you're talking about someone other than Notch
< 1292726208 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Though I suspect their courses are pretty close to the only *actual courses* that will get you competence in the language, surely not the only way.
< 1292726210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no, i'm not, why
< 1292726228 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to assume then that someone is misunderstanding someone
< 1292726234 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seriously, most language courses are absolutely, positively terrible, and actually no better than a freaking phrasebook)
< 1292726282 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, he *is* assuming that the compressed output it always <= than the uncompressed.
< 1292726320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    No instance for (Num (Dual n t))
< 1292726320 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... naive, but I can imagine not realizing that that's not always the case unless casually mentioned
< 1292726341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I think this is one of those cases where Haskell just doesn't want to play.
< 1292726354 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, when I searched for 'learn finnish', every single Google result was useless.
< 1292726374 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I even looked through all 2.7 million of them.
< 1292726378 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1292726381 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soon holidays
< 1292726391 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.. Isn't Soon ***SPOILER***
< 1292726404 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, it's not a spoiler. He's dead
< 1292726415 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah, abusing the type system will usually end up like that...
< 1292726432 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, isn't Azure City kind of ***SPOILER***
< 1292726453 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: maybe you need a type class for what "n" is there
< 1292726455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What.
< 1292726462 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: s/finnish/any language ever/ and you'll have similar results.
< 1292726464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I do; it's TN
< 1292726465 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, lame OOTS references
< 1292726466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: type natural
< 1292726474 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my Dual2 version is working perfectly except it doesn't produce the right derivatives
< 1292726482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's just that, even though every constructor for Dual satisfies (TN n)
< 1292726491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: haskell doesn't realise this implies that Dual n t implies TN n
< 1292726493 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: huh, I guess I haven't tried that with very many languages.
< 1292726500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so because i use something that must be polymorphic over all duals in this case
< 1292726505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it says "hey!! you don't have instances for this"
< 1292726512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: even though I have instances for the Z and (TN n) => (S n) case
< 1292726526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because GADTs can't have typeclass constraints on the actual type, just the constructors :(
< 1292726532 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: The issue is that most people have this crazy idea that memorising phrases will eventually create fluency.
< 1292726546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or that memorising grammar rules will do the same.
< 1292726556 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1292726571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wanna try and fix it? :D
< 1292726596 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird.
< 1292726625 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it works about as well as memorising multiplication tables produces competence at mathematics.
< 1292726641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQriw-tiFBU So suave.
< 1292726657 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh.  Is there a way to tell Google Chrome to download a particular URL?
< 1292726683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Um, Ctrl+S?
< 1292726686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right click link save as?
< 1292726687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: wget?
< 1292726742 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl+S is disabled.  There is no link.  The only computer I have access to is running Windows.
< 1292726775 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, data: url?
< 1292726783 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably my favorite thing to do
< 1292726785 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.>
< 1292726834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why is that your... favourite thing to do?
< 1292726843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Why is Ctrl+S disabled, and how?
< 1292726848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Presumably you cannot download a wget port.
< 1292726868 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, seems easier than installing wget etc
< 1292726876 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Chrome doesn't let you Ctrl+S something that hasn't loaded.
< 1292726896 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recently did that to help a girl download some sound file for use in her presentation
< 1292726896 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you can use a data: URL to do that?
< 1292726919 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, data:text/html,Download
< 1292726930 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, you have a link
< 1292726996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: basically the issue is
< 1292726999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (Num t) => Num (Dual Z t) where
< 1292726999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (TN n, Num t, Num (Dual n t)) => Num (Dual (S n) t) where
< 1292727009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: do not, together, constitute an instance for (Num (Dual n t)) in Haskell's mind
< 1292727025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: because, even though every constructor of Dual has (TN n) in effect, this constraint is not on the type itself (and cannot be)
< 1292727060 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, use .... my mind is blank trying to come up with a sufficiently similar dynamically-typed language
< 1292727080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: there is absolutely no call for a dynamically-typed language here; it is merely that the type system is too weak
< 1292727104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when your logic can't prove a given statement (and you really want to prove it), you don't switch to an inconsistent logic (which a freely typed language is), you switch to a more powerful one
< 1292727151 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really want to prove 1=2 >.>
< 1292727193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why.
< 1292727227 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I was trying to be somewhat funny, and also a power powerful, consistent logic would not help there, yet an inconsistent one would
< 1292727304 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think I found the missing magic now: http://hpaste.org/paste/42405/automatic_differentiation#p42407
< 1292727319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Dual t = Dual t (Dual t)
< 1292727320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: fail
< 1292727325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: this makes Shows completely unreadable
< 1292727332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I'm trying to do it the proper way -- a hierarchy of Dual types
< 1292727339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. length-parameterised lists
< 1292727370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: that does look cool though
< 1292727375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it's just, Show will be so ugly :/
< 1292727376 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure, Show always gives an infinite result :)
< 1292727389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: any ideas around that? other than not using Deriv directly
< 1292727399 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bank of America blocks WikiLeaks. WikiLeaks claims to have dirt on Bank of America
< 1292727401 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is fun
< 1292727428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: *claimed to, ages ago
< 1292727432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, _implied_
< 1292727447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i mean your solution is more elegant obviously
< 1292727452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it's just, :(
< 1292727456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I want my hierarchy :P
< 1292727462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: any opinions?
< 1292727539 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ah, how useful.
< 1292727559 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Eq is a bit interesting too
< 1292727572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: oh. indeed. that is quite a problem.
< 1292727579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: e.g. consider piecewise functions.
< 1292727673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: do you know coq?
< 1292727718 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, never used it, only heard of it
< 1292727741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well I'm going to have a stab at it in Coq :P
< 1292727749 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck :D
< 1292727774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inductive Dual T : nat -> Type :=
< 1292727774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| dualZ : T -> Dual T 0
< 1292727774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| dualS : forall n, T -> Dual T n -> Dual T (S n).
< 1292727774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implicit Arguments dualS [n].
< 1292727777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it's not difficult!
< 1292727780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those are /real/ naturals
< 1292727783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, "42" works there
< 1292727831 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably much better suited for what you were trying to do than haskell
< 1292727850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yeah, but at the same time less -- instead of simple things like floats, you get constructive reals and other craziness :-)
< 1292727867 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, time for bed now that I've made the code output all the derivatives
< 1292727870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I think my original solution is the most elegant right now ... but yours is really nice
< 1292727873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not for the infinite shows and no eq
< 1292727878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, no eq is the worst part
< 1292727885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: could you add, like, a list terminator?
< 1292727894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: and then have one d for each possible length
< 1292727901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: that way if you didn't use infinite lists it'd all come out finite
< 1292727964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl i think i've just kept olsner up for the next ten hours
< 1292728050 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :list terminators are ugly, but maybe it's possible to detect at which point all remaining derivatives will be 0
< 1292728089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ugly, but not as ugly as that show output, man
< 1292728092 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do something like use the longest list length of the two inputs to + and *, then let deriv construct a suitable length for what you asked it to do
< 1292728136 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's like ... an ugly workaround for not having infinite memory and time available
< 1292728179 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather just remove show and eq and say that duals are not showable and not comparable :)
< 1292728386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you need comparable
< 1292728393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: foo n | n < 0 = bonk | otherwise = burp
< 1292728403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: perfectly well-defined on reals, so it should be on duals
< 1292728566 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292728734 0 :augur_!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292728772 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292728994 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292729114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: wtf @ the Integral restriction
< 1292729118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: that makes it useless for actual differentiation :(
< 1292729379 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has achieved the bad ending!

< 1292729390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: *Main> sq' x
< 1292729390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x * 2)
< 1292729390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> sq'' x
< 1292729390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2
< 1292729394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Congraturation!
< 1292729398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Now behold ^
< 1292729407 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :D :D
< 1292729469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> deriv 500 sq x
< 1292729469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0
< 1292729472 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Integral retriction?
< 1292729475 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what game?
< 1292729476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: now fixed.
< 1292729559 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3 FES (The Journey). （ペルソナ３FES『Episode Yourself』）
< 1292729601 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool
< 1292729619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: haha great Dual can't be a Real because toRational has to return ... a rational
< 1292729623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and obviously duals have no rational expression
< 1292729634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :class (Real a, Enum a) => Integral a where
< 1292729637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can't do Integral.
< 1292729641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solution: FAKE REAL INSTANCE
< 1292729668 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, Real is a really abused class already.
< 1292729672 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't do integrals because duals aren't reals?
< 1292729681 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION huhs

< 1292729685 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, WTF
< 1292729686 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that you cannot do Integral is even more obvious.  that's not _supposed_ to work for fractional classes.
< 1292729691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it is not what you think it is
< 1292729694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well yes.
< 1292729705 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Integral as in.. right
< 1292729709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: wait what is the rule for *division*?
< 1292729718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of duals
< 1292729733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wikipedia has it
< 1292729733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of
< 1292729766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh
< 1292729775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1292729780 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always just do (f(x))^-1 and use the d x^n = n x^(n-1) rule
< 1292729941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (Fractional t) => Fractional (Dual t) where
< 1292729941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  (Dual a a') / (Dual b b')
< 1292729941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    | b == 0 = Dual (a'/b') 0
< 1292729941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    | otherwise = Dual (a/b) (((b*a')-(a*b')) / (c*c))
< 1292729943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such hideousness
< 1292729967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm c is b there
< 1292729977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh needs more conversion
< 1292730028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now to have the end song stuck in my head for a bit.
< 1292730111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How bad was the bad ending?
< 1292730134 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Life ceased to exist!
< 1292730140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Seriously? :P
< 1292730144 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, seriously.
< 1292730154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, you sure didn't win the game.
< 1292730164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it giving you an ending song? :P
< 1292730172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cause it ended.
< 1292730181 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could even go to a new game+ after that.
< 1292730196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, it's *maybe* 5 hours from the good ending. Sooo...
< 1292730218 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(more if you're a completionist)
< 1292730330 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur
< 1292730428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: oh god I have to implement Floating ... actually I have no idea why I'm blaming you
< 1292730431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still
< 1292730437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck is the square root of (a+a'd)???
< 1292730512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: actually since there's (Real a, Fractional a) => RealFrac a I beg to differ; clearly there /are/ Real Fractionals
< 1292730547 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i was speaking about Integral
< 1292730553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh right :D
< 1292730626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wanna write sqrt and sin and cos for dual numbers/?!?!?! or uh just tell me how to i guess
< 1292730748 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea but i _am_ expecting this to either break down or become horribly complicated (essentially encapsulating _all_ the derivatives) at about this point
< 1292730788 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you are leaving simple ring operations behind
< 1292730876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: perhaps -- but, then, this is used widely in practice
< 1292730881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm not implementing some random idea I had :)
< 1292730893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combining this with symbolic numbers is _fun_:
< 1292730894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> deriv 1 x5 x
< 1292730894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(((x * x) * (x * x)) + ((((x * x) * (x * 2)) + ((x * 2) * (x * x))) * x))
< 1292730902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that actually simplifies to the right thing though)
< 1292730908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x5 is \x -> x^5)
< 1292730913 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1292730986 0 :__s!adf605db@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.246.5.219 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292731048 0 :__s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it count as a JIT if it compiles into an alternative format? As in, can there be AST JITs?
< 1292731055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> deriv 1 x5 x
< 1292731055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(((x ^ 2) ^ 2) + ((((x ^ 2) * (x * 2)) + ((x * 2) * (x ^ 2))) * x))
< 1292731058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's (slightly) better
< 1292731065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__s: I don't understand your question.
< 1292731072 0 :__s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a befunge JIT
< 1292731081 0 :__s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it doesn't do machine code
< 1292731108 0 :__s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead, it builds an AST. It seems to be fast enough though, outpaces my last interpreter on adder, primegen, mandelbrot
< 1292731135 0 :__s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my last interpreter was nearing 4x any other interpreters I could find
< 1292731147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__s: erm, does it support p and g?
< 1292731150 0 :__s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1292731153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, that still counts as a JIT
< 1292731163 0 :__s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At p, it rebuilds if it isn't dead code or a nop
< 1292731165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__s: I bet it's slower than fizzie's jitfunge :-) (that did Befunge-98 too ... "sort of")
< 1292731169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__s: (and did native code)
< 1292731173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__s: but very impressive!
< 1292731176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is your code available?
< 1292731178 0 :__s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLVM?
< 1292731180 0 :__s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1292731201 0 :__s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/serprex/Befunge
< 1292731238 0 :__s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't mind the commit message, I haven't coded for the past week and I'd fallen into depression so I'm riding a bit of a coding high right now
< 1292731315 0 :__s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figure next step is to add an optimization pass on the ast, include some special case opcodes. Constant propagation should be very useful with how befunge programs are written
< 1292731347 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__s: It compiles just in time, making it a JIT.
< 1292731386 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next: a JTL compiler
< 1292731421 0 :__s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's just that normally a JIT needs to generate machine code to pay for the cost of a JIT?
< 1292731429 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, math on the duals is very *similar* to math on the complex numbers...
< 1292731439 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__s: Yeah.
< 1292731452 0 :__s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figure static interpreters bolted on top of dynamic would otherwise appear on platforms that don't allow machine code generation
< 1292731568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : next: a JTL compiler
< 1292731571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: CLC-INTERCAL has one of those.
< 1292731580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: named very similarly to your pun IIRC
< 1292731653 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it _would_ make sense to have that in INTERCAL
< 1292731801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: my method /cannot/ yet differentiate (1/x), it seems :D
< 1292731835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, division is just plain broken
< 1292731839 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It'd be surprising if it could, actually.
< 1292731850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: not *really*
< 1292731861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha the issue is that I have no subtraction I think :D
< 1292731865 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm *really* not sure how you could get ln(x) out of that easily.
< 1292731883 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um ln(x) is the integral
< 1292731885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: thankfully I don't have to! because last i checked the derivative of 1/x doesn't involve logarithms
< 1292731895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this snark is unwarranted though -- I just made the same mistake in another conversation!
< 1292731913 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: GAAAH
< 1292731920 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: And to think, I got an A in calc I.
< 1292731931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I got an A in addition
< 1292731958 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: never take fourier analysis, ok?
< 1292732037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :<
< 1292732041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i don't like you
< 1292732060 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if elliott was wooshed there

< 1292732187 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to find the integral of log you can use parts on 1 * log(x)
< 1292732243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: most likely
< 1292734000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://i.imgur.com/fOopp.jpg
< 1292734103 0 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292734296 0 :__s!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292734549 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1292735069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm is the signum of 24 - 145d (1 + 0d) or (1 - 1d)?
< 1292735157 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd say the first
< 1292735189 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since a small adjustment has no effect on a real signum that isn't close to 0
< 1292735208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but (1-1d) ~= 1 :)
< 1292735215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but right, yeah, you are of course correct
< 1292735221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even realise 'cuz I'm dumb
< 1292735255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> deriv 1 recip 3
< 1292735255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-0.1111111111111111
< 1292735256 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is also the case for nonstandard reals
< 1292735259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: great success.
< 1292735275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right well these are almost hyperreals really :
< 1292735276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1292735280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I borrowed the st name
< 1292735288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1292735290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not hyperreals
< 1292735292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-standard reals
< 1292735310 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure of the terminology there myself
< 1292735326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm what's |a+bd|? I think it's just |a|+bd
< 1292735328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but am not sure
< 1292735338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., |0-1d| would = 0-1d
< 1292735342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, of course, <0
< 1292735351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but having it = 0+1d seems very silly... or does it?
< 1292735357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, |-d| of course = d
< 1292735363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so |a+a'd| = |a|+|a'|d
< 1292735369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right?
< 1292735379 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um not quite
< 1292735383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm right...
< 1292735390 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a and a' have the same sign, it is
< 1292735396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right...
< 1292735441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it's |x|= x if x > 0 and -x if x < 0 and d makes no difference for comparison with 0
< 1292735466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah
< 1292735470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just use comparisons
< 1292735478 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless the large part is 0)
< 1292735589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph, I think this introduces an (Ord t) dependency on my Num instance
< 1292735594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since abs has to do a comparison
< 1292735595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no wait
< 1292735602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can use signum, can't I?
< 1292735648 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably since you only need to compare to 0
< 1292735795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (Ord t) => Ord (Dual t) where
< 1292735795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  compare (Dual a a') (Dual b b') =
< 1292735795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    case compare a b of
< 1292735795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      EQ -> compare a' b'
< 1292735795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      x -> x
< 1292735801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does this think it needs (Num t) in the head?
< 1292735874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't figure it out
< 1292735897 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have a Num requirement on Dual itself somehow?
< 1292735934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Dual t = Dual t (Dual t) | Zero
< 1292735935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1292735938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH
< 1292735940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (Num t) => Eq (Dual t) where
< 1292735944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea how that go tthere
< 1292735955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292735956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of 0
< 1292735991 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't see why you need 0 to compare for equality

< 1292735996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Dual a b == Zero = a == 0 && b == Zero
< 1292735996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Zero == Dual a b = a == 0 && b == Zero
< 1292736009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so apparently, my code thinks the derivative of abs is 1
< 1292736030 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only for x > 0, hopefully
< 1292736094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh wait, that's the actual derivative, isn't it
< 1292736105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correction: my code computes the derivative of abs PERFECTLY
< 1292736108 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION comes to an odd realisation...

< 1292736113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what
< 1292736119 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"only for x > 0, hopefully"
< 1292736125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically, almost all of this game is optional.
< 1292736129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed.
< 1292736142 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are 7 mandatory fights. Total.
< 1292736154 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Literally everything else can be skipped.
< 1292736156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Play it skipping everything that isn't vital. I dare you.
< 1292736207 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, the boss fights would be *insanely* hard.
< 1292736222 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Except that on a new game plus, you keep your levels and personæ.
< 1292736272 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you could have the infinity plus one sword and be able to one-shot everything but the optional boss.
< 1292736333 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still. Damn. This game has a lot of room for speedrunning.
< 1292736335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> deriv 1 abs x
< 1292736335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** Exception: /home/elliott/code/adiff/diff.hs:(51,4)-(58,11): Non-exhaustive patterns in case
< 1292736339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIL: Breaking laws breaks laws.
< 1292736347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> signum x
< 1292736347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(signum x)
< 1292736352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that things might, hypothetically, not like that.
< 1292736361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you can skip everything but 7 bosses and cutscenes.
< 1292736394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Insanely hard -- but there'd only be 7 of them.
< 1292736405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So go for it. From the start. If you absolutely NEED to get some kind of weapon, get the one you can get without doing anything.
< 1292736409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And BEAT THE FUCKING BOSSES.
< 1292736421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And put it on YouTube.
< 1292736425 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably impossible without really fucking up the RNG.
< 1292736445 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But with a new game plus, entirely possible, and I could start right now.
< 1292736502 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I: Awake. Not having eaten yet. And having done absolutely no work whatsoever?
< 1292736532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because you don't like sleeping, you don't like eating, and you don't like working.
< 1292736534 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vacation?
< 1292736544 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drugs?
< 1292736559 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to go back on my meds tomorrow
< 1292736573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAPPY MEDS
< 1292736581 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Seriously though, this is already a fairly hard game. And it's one of the easiest games from Atlus.
< 1292736586 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292736604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm sorry, but if you don't start from scratch and do the bare minimum to complete the game, we can't be friends any more.
< 1292736624 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm strongly suspecting that grinding is mandatory without TASing.
< 1292736636 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what game?
< 1292736652 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simply because you aren't getting any persona other than freaking Orpheus if you do that...
< 1292736662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OK then. Complete the game doing it normally, but make sure you finish *only* with the infinity plus one sword. Nothing else.
< 1292736670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Then new game plus and do the 7 boss fights and nothing else.
< 1292736681 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is like playing Pokémon with just the starter, *never leveling*)
< 1292736698 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(almost exactly, in fact.)
< 1292736703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to beat Pokémon with an unlevelled starter now :P
< 1292736708 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see a game name in scrollback
< 1292736711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOOOOOOO PIDGEY!
< 1292736714 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Persona 3.
< 1292736715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know that's not a starter. But shut up.)
< 1292736719 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1292736744 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: By comparison, starting a new game plus now would be like playing Pokémon with only a level 100 Mewtwo.
< 1292736753 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then only doing the gym battles.
< 1292736760 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kansansatu, karhu, pala, suu, kettu, -pa, viimein, pohjoinen, päästä, juusto pääsi suusta...
< 1292736764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, because you have non-infinity+1-sword items.
< 1292736768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Discard them now and do the 7 boss fights.
< 1292736773 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm speaking Finnish, see?  :P
< 1292736821 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to stuff all these words into my brain!
< 1292736853 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: On a new game plus you merely keep your cash, the items equipped, and your persona compendium. Which basically lets you *purchase* any persona you previously had.
< 1292736859 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, and levels. Can't forget that.
< 1292736865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Do not purchase anything.
< 1292736874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Discard all non-infinity-plus-one-sword items. Discard all cash.
< 1292736880 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Except the persona needed.
< 1292736883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No.
< 1292736886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Do not buy that either.
< 1292736889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (Can you avoid doing so?)
< 1292736893 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Discard #esoteric
< 1292736897 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, this is actually impossible.
< 1292736909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Buy the cheapest Persona possible.
< 1292736912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Discard the rest of the cash.
< 1292736915 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Orpheus.
< 1292736917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Enter first battle. Continue until the last boss is completed.
< 1292736923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It should be fine, since you have that magical sword. Good luck :P
< 1292736925 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Unleveled starter...
< 1292736930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ...with magic sword.
< 1292736941 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "Infinity plus one sword" is a trope name. It's actually *referring* to the persona.
< 1292736955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I know it was a trope name ... but aww, I hoped it was a real sword.
< 1292736962 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, one of the bosses is immune to physical attacks.
< 1292736973 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So having the best *sword* in the game won't get you all the way through.
< 1292736976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OK. Start game. Purchase persona. Discard all other cash and items. Boss fights.
< 1292736984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And that doesn't matter; you can just do that one tediously and impossibly, surely?
< 1292736994 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Null. Physical.
< 1292736998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You. Cannot. Hurt. It.
< 1292737004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Then how is it killed? :p
< 1292737009 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Magic.
< 1292737018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How do you obtain the relevant magic?
< 1292737023 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Persona.
< 1292737033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Including the infinity+1 one?
< 1292737058 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The infinity+1 one can one-shot everything but a single optional boss that appears only in a new game plus.
< 1292737069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Skip the boss.
< 1292737103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No?
< 1292737147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No?
< 1292737147 0 :evincar!~chatzilla@64.223.161.149 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292737151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi evincar
< 1292737156 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey elliott.
< 1292737174 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the project and/or topic?
< 1292737179 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyways, this game is almost impossibly difficult if you can't do things like "healing" or "more than a few points of damage".
< 1292737197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: BUT IT CAN ONE-SHOT THEM.
< 1292737202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Various! I'm about to embed myself.
< 1292737207 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: With one-shotting, yes, it's really easy.
< 1292737209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done some automatic differentiation code. It's fun.
< 1292737211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So go do it.
< 1292737221 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But good ending!
< 1292737242 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Into...what, exactly?
< 1292737245 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And technically I don't have the infinity-plus-one sword! Just the next-closest thing!
< 1292737249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Bed, duh.
< 1292737264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Replay it. Make sure you finish with only the infinity-plus-one.
< 1292737265 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, you mean embedden. :P
< 1292737274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: New game plus. Discard all other items. One-shot boss fights.
< 1292737277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The end.
< 1292737301 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That will probably be a bit tedious, but easily doable.
< 1292737307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Go do it.
< 1292737315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: YouTube the whole new game plus.
< 1292737325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Right now I'm ordering pikhq to do silly things with a game I've never played.
< 1292737337 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, you should play this game.
< 1292737355 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, be nice.
< 1292737398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: But this is nice!
< 1292737408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I would ... except I have no PlayStation N, and Wikipedia suggested etc.
< 1292737411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For some N.)
< 1292737413 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm considering the terrible idea of creating a font authoring system.
< 1292737414 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.
< 1292737418 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's terrible because it's big, not because it's bad.
< 1292737421 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is like $99.
< 1292737532 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION enters 31 cards into his flash card program so he can stuff them into his brain.

< 1292737544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: What, isn't FontForge painful enough?
< 1292737554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Fine, buy it for my Christmas present.
< 1292737563 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No income!
< 1292737573 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, less like FontForge/Fontographer/whateverthefontingfontsoftware and more like Metafont, but less like TeX.
< 1292737574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: YOU'RE NOT BUYING ME A PRESENT?!
< 1292737606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What kind of hardware do you need to emulate a PS2?
< 1292737614 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I just realised I have the June 1957 issue of MAD, which contains an article by Donald Knuth.
< 1292737616 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, quite good?
< 1292737633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Approx. specs?
< 1292737639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Awesome! The system of measurements?
< 1292737643 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Potrzebie System of Weights and Measures"
< 1292737649 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: :)
< 1292737650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3
< 1292737686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, I cannot pronounce Potrzebie.
< 1292737696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Approx. specs? :p
< 1292737719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Uh.
< 1292737724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 4 core, really good GPU?
< 1292737751 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I pronounce it according to the Polish pronunciation, since, y'know, family's Polish and all...
< 1292737769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: What /is/ the Polish pronunciation of that?
< 1292737773 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pot-sheb-yeh" is all I can do for you without IPA or SAMPA.
< 1292737779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: BOORING
< 1292737786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Potterzebie, but without the te.
< 1292737799 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sh is voiced, no?
< 1292737801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMPOSSZEBIE
< 1292737817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So my new laptop won't do it. :(
< 1292737825 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Depends on your accent, but it usually isn't, I don't think.
< 1292737830 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292737883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (2.13 GHz modern Core 2 Duo, 4 GiB RAM, high-end integrated graphics (GeForce 230M 256MB))
< 1292737904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, the PS2 is the Emotion Engine bullshit.
< 1292737912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: With, like, seventy processors ...
< 1292737913 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuh.
< 1292737931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hmm. I could hook the PlayStation up to the laptop display, though, couldn't I?
< 1292737937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's a stupid Mini DisplayPort thing, but I can adapter.)
< 1292737943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (I have no TV in my room right now ...)
< 1292737946 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably.
< 1292737949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(TODO: Fix that. Some day.)
< 1292737956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, do the recent PS2 models have digital out?
< 1292737959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just analogue?
< 1292737965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like me no analogue vidyas.
< 1292737970 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS3 does.
< 1292737988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: PS3 can't play PS1 games and is expensive.
< 1292737989 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Older ones, like mine, are backwards compatible.
< 1292737994 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of them play PS1 games.
< 1292738005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, it's PS1 but not PS2. Right.
< 1292738012 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, this one is PS2.
< 1292738017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. I know.
< 1292738021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: PS3 is incredibly ugly anyway, pre-Slim; the PS2 design has always been really nice IMO.
< 1292738023 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Yeah.
< 1292738028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Slim and after is no-PS2, right?
< 1292738035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah, I kinda want an actual PS2.
< 1292738039 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1292738041 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just download a ps2 emulator
< 1292738054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I think we've established that my hardware is not up to that.
< 1292738077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Or?
< 1292738131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Today on "Names Wikipedia Likes To Use For Being More 'Neutral' Or Technically Correct That Nonetheless Confuse Just About Every Fucking Person Who Sees Them":
< 1292738135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrugated_fiberboard (Cardboard)
< 1292738148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed-wing_aircraft (Aeroplane/Airplane)
< 1292738160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_football (Football/English football/soccer)
< 1292738171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wouldn't be so bad, if they didn't make EVERY LINK use that terminology too.
< 1292738183 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that one is required too
< 1292738189 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/too/
< 1292738193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ?
< 1292738210 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "football" is a page about all football games generally
< 1292738213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: As a Brit, I would /vastly/ prefer Soccer to the current name.
< 1292738223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Soccer" was invented by an Englishman, anyway.)
< 1292738232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Nobody says "association football".
< 1292738235 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I may have to say I *had* that MAD issue, as I can't seem to find it at the moment. It may have been in such poor condition that it got thrown away without my realising it. But I know I've read it, and it was an original printing.
< 1292738236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody says "corrugated fiberboard".
< 1292738238 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: JS?
< 1292738249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOBODY says "fixed-wing aircraft" apart from maybe people who already know what they are in /detail/.
< 1292738252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: At least, nobody says "association football" in the past century.
< 1292738257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: what about JS?
< 1292738261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Indeed.
< 1292738266 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you skilled in it?
< 1292738271 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "Soccer" *is* a contraction of that, after all.
< 1292738280 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know what a fixed-wing aircraft is :|
< 1292738284 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i'd say it, but
< 1292738286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but nobody says that.
< 1292738293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I know all about its horrible, horrible corners and I can write code in it.
< 1292738294 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rotating-wing aircraft!
< 1292738303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a horrible language, and I would like to avoid doing so whenever possible.
< 1292738303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1292738305 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and video games? do you play them?
< 1292738314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Uh, on occasion, yes.
< 1292738317 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scifi?
< 1292738329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Sure, why not.
< 1292738337 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you like to make a game with me?
< 1292738348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Um. Does it involve coding JavaScript?
< 1292738355 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or C#
< 1292738360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Why C#.
< 1292738363 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unity3d
< 1292738388 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm C#-enabled
< 1292738395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I refuse to work on anything Sgeo works on.
< 1292738402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Would there be a server-side part? :p
< 1292738415 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: possibly, but preferably not
< 1292738416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unity looks like it doesn't have real JS, just "UnityScript", anyway.
< 1292738421 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is true
< 1292738425 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you've worked on PSOX
< 1292738428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: There's also Boo, which is python and thus horrible.
< 1292738431 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly deleting stuff, but still
< 1292738436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Only to try and de-shittify it (which didn't work).
< 1292738451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Are you /sure/ there's not a server-side part that I could lovingly craft in Haskell?
< 1292738453 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Removing its sandboxing mechanisms is "de-shittifying it"?
< 1292738456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes.
< 1292738459 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: im sure :(
< 1292738461 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh haskell
< 1292738463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: In fact, why don't you just use OpenGL and the whole thing can be in Haskell. :p
< 1292738465 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my dearest haskell
< 1292738480 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because unity is a nice little cross-platform engine
< 1292738491 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F#!
< 1292738495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: It's also closed-source, which -- being a fag -- makes me want to stay well away from it.
< 1292738502 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: He's right, you know. Unity is alright.
< 1292738503 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah well.
< 1292738507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: Fag justification possibly flimsy.)
< 1292738518 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you're also a homosexual.
< 1292738519 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I spit on .NET.
< 1292738521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh and it looks like its UI does its own widgets, ew. (See, even flimsier.)
< 1292738534 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-37.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292738535 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you can dick around with UI stuff
< 1292738537 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, just like The GIMP!
< 1292738539 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not sure.
< 1292738546 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[in the past][I think]
< 1292738560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Um, the GIMP invented GTK+ because /there were no toolkits/.
< 1292738584 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does anyone want to work on a scifi videogame?
< 1292738594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: So in conclusion, I'll work on your Unity-based, UnityScript-or-C game if it's actually OpenGL-based and Haskell. Hell, I demand a change from sci-fi to fantasy and from video game to drinking game while I'm at it.
< 1292738605 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1292738620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: No but seriously, you should do it in OpenGL and Haskell.
< 1292738620 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can learn UnityScript >.>
< 1292738637 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has weird... things with these sorts of languages

< 1292738645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Sgeo wants to be part of your project solely for the "reputation" and "fame" it will bring.
< 1292738645 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292738656 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i already have a rough idea of how i want the game to go, and i have a bit of code already, i just want someone to work with
< 1292738672 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: an opengl drinking game in Haskell?  sounds like the thing.
< 1292738672 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Functional programming languages have never seemed particularly well-suited to game development, in my mind.
< 1292738676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: You really don't want to work with Sgeo. (I am doing a service to Sgeo here as well as you :P)
< 1292738679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: FRP.
< 1292738690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: The only reason they seem unsuited is because the default IO monad model is _broken_.
< 1292738704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: There is a functional way to do effects, FRP; it's sort of like event-based programming, but purely functional.
< 1292738722 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm assuming augur is not an idiot. And you don't think I'm an idiot, do you?
< 1292738733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I refuse to comment.
< 1292738734 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Let me guess. The state of the program is a function of the current moment and all events that have happened up to the current moment?
< 1292738738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: No.
< 1292738743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: That's the shitty, non-functional model.
< 1292738748 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, that's what it ought to be. ;P
< 1292738753 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha...
< 1292738755 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1292738756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: No, that's just the State monad, faked as a function.
< 1292738761 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you once defended me when Vorpal made a comment...
< 1292738763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact it's the IO monad faked as the State monad faked as a function.
< 1292738775 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: we'll consider that question once you've done your homework... >:)
< 1292738776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Seriously -- there are ways to do games elegantly and functionally, and if I wasn't about to go to bed I'd be happy to explain.
< 1292738777 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292738780 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only place that'd work is in something like Flash, methinks...
< 1292738786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Kick ban him! Given into temptation!
< 1292738787 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that is, what I said.
< 1292738800 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waits for Death

< 1292738807 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: he clearly stated that he procrastinated just fine without the channel
< 1292738821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, but he can procrastinate without irritating me :)
< 1292738835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah humbug!
< 1292738841 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, another time, perhaps. I don't doubt it, I just find that it's easier for me to use an imperative style for realtime apps and leave declarative for editors and stuff like that.
< 1292738847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a sodding rubbish christmas to you lot, too!
< 1292738854 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G'night?
< 1292738865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Were I to explain it to you you'd be converted, but MY BODY NEEDS TO GO UNCONSCIOUS GOD DAMMIT.
< 1292738874 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/?/./
< 1292738875 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, night, and happy 
< 1292738881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: so long, fuckers
< 1292738926 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliot, feel free to explain it to me when you're back, I'd love to learn
< 1292738965 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You got "so long, fuckers"ed.
< 1292738991 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wishes he was a ... *gets slapped*

< 1292739034 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1292739078 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is so hilarious
< 1292739221 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A character, certainly.
< 1292739293 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+ED?
< 1292739303 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the only letters in his name that are hex numerals)
< 1292739368 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, I'm pretty sure he lives far into the private-use area.
< 1292739373 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg he is secretly ed!
< 1292739424 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Words stuffed.  That took about ninety seconds per word.  Now let's see if I can understand any of this story whatsoever.
< 1292739540 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Karhulla oli juustonpala suussa."  Something to do with a bit of cheese and a mouth.
< 1292739561 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bear, a bit of cheese, and a mouth.
< 1292739563 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Karhulla oli juustonpala suussa.
< 1292739569 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bear was a piece of cheese in your mouth.
< 1292739579 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure that's exactly what it means.
< 1292739607 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. -lla denotes the adessive case, which means... either in or on, lemme see.
< 1292739615 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Karhulla
< 1292739618 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Karhulla
< 1292739624 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On.
< 1292739625 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto fi en Karhulla
< 1292739626 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bear
< 1292739634 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, "oli"... some form of "olla".
< 1292739638 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto fi en oli
< 1292739645 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was
< 1292739651 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto fi en juustonpala
< 1292739654 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a piece of cheese
< 1292739654 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Third-person singular indicative past.  "Was".
< 1292739668 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto fi en suussa
< 1292739669 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mouth
< 1292739680 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "juusto" is "cheese"; who knows what the "n" is all about.  "Pala" is "bit".
< 1292739687 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bear had a piece of cheese in its mouth, perhaps?
< 1292739697 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally, -ssa is "in".
< 1292739707 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So.  "On the bear was a cheese-bit in the mouth."
< 1292739721 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, more idiomatically, "The bear had a piece of cheese in its mouth."
< 1292739731 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1292739738 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translateto en a piece of cheese
< 1292739739 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a piece of cheese
< 1292739744 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err
< 1292739747 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translateto fi a piece of cheese
< 1292739749 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pala juustoa
< 1292739768 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, your bot's translations into English are truly brilliant.
< 1292739774 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translateto no a piece of cheese
< 1292739776 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :et stykke ost
< 1292739784 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The phrase "a piece of cheese" captures every nuance of the phrase "a piece of cheese".
< 1292739803 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay.  Next sentence...
< 1292739812 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: oh i don't know, it's a bit imprecise
< 1292739831 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, what was the cheese's motivation?
< 1292739845 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Kettu pyysi sitä monta kertaa, mutta karhu ei sitä ketulle antanut."
< 1292739870 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "kettu" means "fox".  So... something about a fox.  "Karhu" is still "bear".  I think "mutta" might be "but".
< 1292739877 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate "Kettu pyysi sitä monta kertaa, mutta karhu ei sitä ketulle antanut.
< 1292739879 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fox asked for it many times, but the bear does it gives the fox.
< 1292739892 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: It's just Google.
< 1292739910 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, your bot's invocations of Google are truly brilliant.
< 1292739925 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the missing ei -> not, that was pretty understandable...
< 1292739936 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1292739947 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't recognize any of the other words, so I'm just going to move on to the next sentence.
< 1292739989 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Kettu kysyi viimein: 'Tiedätkö mistä nyt tuuli käy?'"
< 1292740009 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fox does something finally: "Something something something something something?"
< 1292740016 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Kettu kysyi viimein: 'Tiedätkö mistä nyt tuuli käy?'
< 1292740110 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo ping
< 1292740154 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: the source-of-fun has stopped yielding fun!  Labor in order to make us feel better!
< 1292740174 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: hagb4rd
< 1292740186 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292740222 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I'm just going to use a google.
< 1292740230 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/a4yhf.jpg
< 1292740233 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :El zorro finalmente preguntó: "¿Sabe usted donde el viento es ahora?"
< 1292740250 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo ping
< 1292740253 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION changes the output language.

< 1292740254 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fox finally asked: "Do you know where the wind is now?"
< 1292740296 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I can read a lot of this, but not most of it.
< 1292740350 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ping
< 1292740437 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1292740445 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo ping 19 38 59 (resonance mode, damping at level 7)
< 1292740454 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ping 19 38 59 (resonance mode, damping at level 7)
< 1292740633 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4247a.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292740947 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Sleep?
< 1292741852 0 :church1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1292742422 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is 0/epsilon?
< 1292742776 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I want to find f'(5) where f(x) = x^2
< 1292742845 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(5+eps)^2 = 25 + 2*5*eps + eps^2
< 1292742853 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := 25 + 10eps
< 1292742868 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- 25 = 10eps
< 1292742872 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/eps = 10
< 1292742877 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correct result, awesome
< 1292742930 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd try it with e^x but don't know how to do n^eps, is it 0 or something weird like that?
< 1292742953 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can find out!
< 1292742985 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e^eps is probably 1+eps
< 1292743044 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e^eps must equal something + eps...
< 1292743054 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why 1?
< 1292743066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to be close to 1 because eps is close to 0
< 1292743124 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more generally, i find the approximation e^x ~ 1+x for small x is useful for head estimates...
< 1292743212 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, for the dual part of eps^eps
< 1292743242 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1+eps)^(1+eps) = something + 0eps
< 1292743242 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292743245 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O
< 1292743260 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I screw that up? Yes I did I think
< 1292743266 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I forgot the derivative of x^x
< 1292743305 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something + eps
< 1292743324 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x^x + x^x * ln x
< 1292743423 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am assuming that f(x + y*eps) = f(x) + y*f'(x)*eps for f a function differentiable at x
< 1292743448 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what Wiki says I think
< 1292743518 0 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292744640 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: hagb4rd
< 1292744965 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db42971.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292745599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1292745600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292747815 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292748188 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1292748303 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292748588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1292752446 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-9-134.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292753925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292754233 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292756976 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1292759784 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: *disappears in a puff of orange smoke*
< 1292760429 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :K-Lined
< 1292760666 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: http://i.imgur.com/fOopp.jpg <-- what the hell is that?
< 1292761135 0 :FireFly!~firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292761135 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1292761135 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292763033 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5fa.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292764199 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, some kind of hyperdungeon?
< 1292764598 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I don't see any odd geometry in that...
< 1292764615 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swatpans Ilari --==\#/

< 1292764630 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch.
< 1292764939 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on blockiness, I guess its from minecraft...
< 1292765555 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ?
< 1292765560 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh the image
< 1292765562 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, perhaps
< 1292765590 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, man made in large parts I suspect
< 1292765592 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "shadowy" spots look abnormal.
< 1292765789 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, same do the cages
< 1292765818 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must be man-made
< 1292765840 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but I mean "abnormal" in the sense of "not like the usual lighting rules".
< 1292765866 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed
< 1292765905 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it's the default texture pack I think
< 1292765939 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be, I haven't looked at that lately. :p
< 1292766007 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw I'm handing out free records (subject to limited availability)
< 1292766068 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to log on soon(ishly) to test things.
< 1292766244 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, to test what?
< 1292766263 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "don't jump if blocked" best-effort test.
< 1292767595 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the TV Tropes Troper Tales pages...
< 1292767646 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet you thought Wolfram had the largest ego possible without collapsing under its own weight.
< 1292767648 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You were wrong.
< 1292767724 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately, Mary Sue has been cleansed of self-nominations.
< 1292767860 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, I finally worked out the relationship between differentiation and integration in my head, 3 years after learning calculus.
< 1292767904 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am now content with the world.
< 1292767946 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TroperTales/EverybodyHatesMathematics
< 1292768519 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1292768592 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hmm, what's the relation between integration and differentiation?
< 1292768605 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, seriously?
< 1292768653 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole "int_a^bf(x)dx = F(a)-F(b)" bit?
< 1292768664 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*F(b)-F(a)
< 1292768678 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, did you just realize what the words mean, or did you find a more profound relationship?
< 1292768746 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realised why it happens in the first place.
< 1292769020 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And since everybody hates matematics... It is easy to disinform using creative statistics... :-)
< 1292769154 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it "happens"? I've always thought integration and differentiation was something you *did* rather than something that just happens
< 1292769184 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, "the reason differentiation and integration are inverses of each other", then.
< 1292769526 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never managed to learn the definition of integration, but for me integration means semi-intelligently guessing a function that has the correct derivative
< 1292769568 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then they're simply inverses by definition :)
< 1292770144 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, yes, but the other meaning of (definite) integration is the calculation of the area under a curve.
< 1292770180 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which has, on the face of it, absolutely nothing to do with gradients of curves at a point.
< 1292771325 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION installs GNUstep with a feeling of self-hatred.

< 1292771538 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cut wrist, install gnustep?
< 1292771555 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not just gnustep!
< 1292771559 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnustep-devel!
< 1292771576 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("dev" isn't fancy enough for the GNUstep people, apparently.)
< 1292771813 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, Oolite is worth it.
< 1292772229 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1sXuHnf_lo
< 1292772596 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have some NeXTSTEP shit
< 1292772599 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone wanna buy it
< 1292773165 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1292773224 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm only installing GNUstep because Oolite was originally written in Objective-C, and noöne could think of a better way to port it to other platforms.
< 1292773261 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I still have two nextstep pizza boxes
< 1292773266 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a megapixel monitor
< 1292773272 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other BULLSHIT i want to get rid of
< 1292773825 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292774059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:29:56  i have some NeXTSTEP shit
< 1292774059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:29:59  anyone wanna buy it
< 1292774060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only a cube.
< 1292774272 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tru
< 1292774277 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every1 luvs the cube
< 1292774284 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i only have slabs of shit
< 1292774294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: well do you have anything that can actually boot
< 1292774345 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1292774351 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the slabs boots up fine
< 1292774358 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other doesn't (idk why)
< 1292774474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what keyboard/mouse ports do they have, wikipedia doesn't say
< 1292775203 0 :reiffert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1292775208 0 :reiffert!~thomas@mail.reifferscheid.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292775346 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292775557 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292775945 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making a case more cubical than flat seems to be a surefire way of attracting people.
< 1292775989 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have that SGI Indy slab ("Indigo without the 'go'", referring to the performance), and it's irrefutably more boring than the O2s, no matter that their hardware doesn't differ *that* much.
< 1292776082 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The O2 is a sort of a rounded cubeish thing.)
< 1292776126 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Admittedly it does also have many more megahurts too.)
< 1292776439 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925110027.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292776536 0 :p_q!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1292778066 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1292778095 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.35.11 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292778103 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@75-174-216-120.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292778960 0 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.117.134 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292778960 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1292778965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ERROR: Permission to fis/mcmap.git denied to ehird.
< 1292778966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Plzfix?
< 1292778985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think you pretty much have to add people individually as contributors :P
< 1292778989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I has two useful commits to push.
< 1292779071 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't you make a pull request
< 1292779096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, but fizzie said it was going to be public-push, and that sounds more fun than having my own repo. :p
< 1292779220 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I can add you as a collabomator there, soon. (What's the two things?)
< 1292779268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: //coords, which does some printin' of coordy actions (because F3 gets overwritten with graphs a lot), and I changed the "pure white" colour to in fact just use the terminal's default colours, so it works on lightbulb-y terminals too.
< 1292779271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. light-backgrounded)
< 1292779278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*backgrounded.)
< 1292779380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Is it "easy" to inject chat packets?
< 1292779385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, I'll make //coords do that.
< 1292779405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The colour code syntax would be nice, too; I know it involves that wavy S thing.)
< 1292779553 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure.
< 1292779572 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inject_to_client(packet_new(PACKET_CHAT, "foo")); will probably make 'foo' appear on the client.
< 1292779583 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just #include "common.h" and "protocol.h" for that.)
< 1292779678 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the color code syntax is just §-in-UTF8 followed by a character out of [0-9a-f], the palette is also somewhere.
< 1292779695 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you can look at the color code decoding to map between palette and terminal colors.
< 1292779753 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-8 in strings probably might not be quite safe, but you can use something like "foo \xc2\xa7dbar" to get bar in color d.
< 1292779756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: If I put the actual UTF-8 byte in the source, you'll hate me, won't you?
< 1292779761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, see, see, you preempted me.
< 1292779766 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and it's not a byte, it's two.
< 1292779770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes, yes.
< 1292779773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You PEDANT.
< 1292779778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh man, I have to use sprintf. Isn't that great?
< 1292779831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just make a 96-byte buffer; 's a power of two, and my envelope calculations tell me it'll work right up until Notch switches to 128-bit coordinates.
< 1292779875 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should I write in the collaborator thing? Is it a github account name or what? Are you that "ehird" guy?
< 1292779901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I may be that ehird guy, yes.
< 1292779905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think that's what you put in there, yes.
< 1292779920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am also that alise guy, but I use that account even less than this one.
< 1292779933 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292779942 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's there. And ooh, it has a completion thing.
< 1292779976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, wait, are packet_news garbage collected?
< 1292780038 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but when you hand a packet to inject_foo, the corresponding proxy thread will deallocate it when it has been injected.
< 1292780051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1292780061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What is your favourite colour?
< 1292780076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I need to pick a colour for the mcmap chat messages that isn't red (hMod) or purple (COBOLSERVER 3000).)
< 1292780091 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, I was going to go all purple.
< 1292780110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think ineiros would strike down upon thee.
< 1292780136 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The pink is quite sexy too, but I guess that's rather close to purple.
< 1292780154 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292780185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is yellow used for anything?
< 1292780192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, yes, it is, but I forget what.
< 1292780197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that the "main" server messages?
< 1292780205 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely recall seeing yellow somewhere, but not sure where.
< 1292780209 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any luck with the differentatiation
< 1292780213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll go with cyan.
< 1292780222 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, the "left the game" "joined the game" messages are in yellow.
< 1292780228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: well, yep; it works properly, for Nth derivatives, parameterisable N, and finite shows
< 1292780248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: basically I added a new constructor Zero that is, semantically, identical to (fix (Dual 0))... but of course all the operations on it terminate strictly and the like
< 1292780254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it can be printed more simply
< 1292780298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So I want colour 11. So... \xc2\xa7b?
< 1292780312 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds right.
< 1292780459 0 :chickenzilla!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292780867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Pushing now.
< 1292780874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (You will probably *really* want to rewrite cmd_say.)
< 1292780892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: There you go.
< 1292780910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Three lovely commits; commands now give output to chat, too, in cyan, and //coords works.
< 1292780913 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, got Oolite working; may not play MC for several days.
< 1292780915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To print your current coordinates.
< 1292780924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also shows white as the terminal's default colour.
< 1292780925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such happy.
< 1292781013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Interestingly, (0,0) isn't the spawn; it's three chunks that were presumably the original spawn, then a biome disconinuity.
< 1292781021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the spawn was changed right away for whatever reason.
< 1292781392 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I f3'd the spawn a while ago.
< 1292781406 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they moved it when starting the game, who knows.
< 1292781692 0 :radams976!~radams976@adsl-95-140-143.jan.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292781730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :radams976: hi
< 1292781795 0 :radams976!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1292781805 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't byte the noobs!
< 1292781908 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we can still nibble them, can't we?
< 1292781915 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1292782242 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nybble?
< 1292782287 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : And since everybody hates matematics... It is easy to disinform using creative statistics... :-) <-- only almost all, not all
< 1292782359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and a megapixel monitor <-- what
< 1292782472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is "what" about that.
< 1292782474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Megapixel = 1M pixels.
< 1292782492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I've pushed an incredibly important update; it is rather vital that everyone upgrades now.
< 1292782499 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but where can you even find non-megapixel monitors nowadays? except on like mobile phones?
< 1292782511 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: Oh man, I have to use sprintf. Isn't that great? <-- sn
< 1292782521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Shut up.
< 1292782521 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it is the name of NeXT's monitor
< 1292782537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (There was no way it could overflow the buffer, as the variables in question are fixed-size.)
< 1292782539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Integers.)
< 1292782554 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.monitorworld.com/Monitors/next/megapixel.html
< 1292782559 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, a
< 1292782560 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah*
< 1292782595 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: I've pushed an incredibly important update; it is rather vital that everyone upgrades now. <-- what is it?
< 1292782605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Vital.
< 1292782607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also an update.
< 1292782673 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no way
< 1292782690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No way what?!
< 1292782695 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that it is vital
< 1292782699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it is.
< 1292782702 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION slaps test with a super-large, super-smelly, decaying digitally-enhanced reinforced IRC-grade trout

< 1292782705 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1292782709 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had that alias here
< 1292782709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See?
< 1292782711 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf
< 1292782713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vital.
< 1292782714 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I wonder why
< 1292782720 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll remove it from my cleint
< 1292782721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because of the 90s.
< 1292782725 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :client*
< 1292782741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=trout-slap <-- Look, it even has pages of Urban Dictionary entries with lots of probably-not-ever-used-more-than-once sexual definitions.
< 1292782745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the mark of authenticity, that is.
< 1292782753 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1292782817 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292782835 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292783050 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The only time a Singaporean is capable of forming a complete English sentence on IRC" :)
< 1292783055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1292783174 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: -
< 1292783885 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292784136 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY GUYS I'm on a plane
< 1292784284 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: have you had it with the snakes on it yet?
< 1292784331 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sexual joke in poor taste*
< 1292784455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm refactoring all the non-[CHAT] messages to use chat(); that okay with you?
< 1292784460 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hippos in a helicopter at least rhymes.
< 1292784469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well.
< 1292784473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also apart from [PLAYER] appear/disappear.
< 1292784477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that would just be irritating.
< 1292784493 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that thing you're working on anyway?
< 1292784497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually turns out I already did that.
< 1292784502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: A Minecraft server proxy that does all kinds of fancy stuff.
< 1292784508 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, nice
< 1292784511 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess
< 1292784514 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I assume you play mc
< 1292784524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Assume"?
< 1292784525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On what grounds?
< 1292784526 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since almost everyone does)
< 1292784529 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you can assume whatever you want :P
< 1292784530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's ... not even false.
< 1292784533 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a Swede.
< 1292784534 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, too
< 1292784539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1292784550 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, like, more than half of the Swedes I know seem to have mc
< 1292784585 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*more* than half? that implies you know more than two swedes!
< 1292784591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :git push is so slow.
< 1292784611 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, blame git or github
< 1292784619 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, tens!
< 1292784621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll blame ssh.
< 1292784628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since git pushes are usually very fast and GitHub's HTTP is very fast.
< 1292784631 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ssh is fast in general
< 1292784639 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to imply that anyway, it depends on what it takes for you to think it "seems" like someone has mc
< 1292784646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to see bzr push faster than this over ssh. Ha.
< 1292784649 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, on whether I "seem" to have mc
< 1292784660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, you don't seem to have it
< 1292784673 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, seem was used in the sense of clothing
< 1292784674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: LOL CONVERSING WITH VORPAL
< 1292784697 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What messages are those?
< 1292784698 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also to the north-left)
< 1292784707 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the map-mode changes make sense in the client stream really.
< 1292784708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Mode setting ones, and nothing else at all. :p
< 1292784714 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's I guess a matter of opinion.
< 1292784717 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's so lol about that?
< 1292784721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh. Well, I've already pushed it. You can revert if you want, it's just that I never look at the console.
< 1292784729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (And I can easily imagine someone, e.g. redirecting it to a file.)
< 1292784733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner:  olsner, seem was used in the sense of clothing
< 1292784752 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a very strong opinion on it, so I guess I'll just let it be.
< 1292784765 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I missed that line, but that's spelled 'seam' afaik
< 1292784772 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, randomness
< 1292784788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it is, but it did helpfully derail the conversation without you getting an answer :)
< 1292784808 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FLOODTIME
< 1292784809 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* gamax92 has joined ##javascript
< 1292784809 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : may i ask you a question
< 1292784809 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : gamax92: First you have to check the schedule to see whether this is an Approved Questions Hour, then you have to file a question request at the web site in the /topic.
< 1292784809 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i dont have the question, my friend does
< 1292784810 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, the cart-riding will need a more complicated thing. :/
< 1292784812 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : gamax92: Well then he'll have to fill out the question request form.
< 1292784813 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* gamax92 has left ##javascript
< 1292784815 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Am I a bad person? :P
< 1292784819 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292784829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, and that's why we love you.
< 1292784861 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, did I ask anything that wasn't answered?
< 1292784870 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1292784902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well, OK, you didn't ask a question, but you implied one
< 1292784908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it seems to imply that anyway, it depends on what it takes for you to think it "seems" like someone has mc   specifically, on whether I "seem" to have mc
< 1292784919 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott:  olsner, you don't seem to have it
< 1292784934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner:  olsner, you don't seem to have it   olsner, seem was used in the sense of clothing
< 1292784939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: this is one of the things that vorpal likes to call "jokes"
< 1292784966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can I add timestamps to the [CHAT]/[PLAYER] things?
< 1292785023 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, right, and that derailed something?
< 1292785041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yes, the minecart fell off the track.
< 1292785042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what?
< 1292785076 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You mean on-console? Why not.
< 1292785114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm doing all my edits with vi without syntax highlighting or automatic indentation; can I have a hardcore prize?
< 1292785127 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure there is a prize.
< 1292785134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But I want a prize.
< 1292785142 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to find the right way to construct this PDPE
< 1292785162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can I conflict with math.h names? :p
< 1292785322 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, this one from a week ago:  https://gist.github.com/657234#LID75 In which olsner manages to make me hate long mode.
< 1292785332 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you mean that specific line? what's wrong about it?
< 1292785343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: MAGIC FLAGS AND BITS AND PGE AND WHAT
< 1292785472 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmkay, well paging involves flags, what's the big deal? :)
< 1292785485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: DFFFF
< 1292785534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You do realise that every time you call do_die, it's with "%s", msg, thus making the printf part of do_die rather useless? :p
< 1292785552 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not very true.
< 1292785562 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or of it is, it wasn't when I wrote it.
< 1292785564 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the dief macro still.
< 1292785569 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not my fault if I don't use it.
< 1292785582 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Because the instances have been changed to stopfs.)
< 1292785587 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And I think those still use do_die.)
< 1292785632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, so you do.
< 1292785632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn.
< 1292785654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (I want to make do_die use log(), but I can't, really, because it does two prints.)
< 1292785669 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and?
< 1292785673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And what?
< 1292785684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prediction:  ...logarithms...
< 1292785687 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why is it an issues it uses 2 prints
< 1292785692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because log() does one print.
< 1292785703 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes.... and?
< 1292785709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it timestamps them.
< 1292785715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can't use log() in do_die().
< 1292785720 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do use math.h here and there, I'm not sure how I feel about the name-conflict.
< 1292785724 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, are they macros?
< 1292785730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ...???
< 1292785733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OK, I'll rename it.
< 1292785746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: printlog, probably.
< 1292785749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or logprintf.
< 1292785755 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do_log
< 1292785756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or log_print :P
< 1292785761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do_ is a silley prefix.
< 1292785764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :log_print is good.
< 1292785767 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, true
< 1292785772 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, log_format?
< 1292785777 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :log_fmt
< 1292785781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :log_printf.
< 1292785783 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the do_ prefix is not visible to calling code.
< 1292785785 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that
< 1292785787 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like you want a va_list variant of log or something like that
< 1292785792 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just the underlying function for the die/dief/log/logf macros.
< 1292785795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: not really, it's more involved than that
< 1292785807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I need a va_list variant that also takes /another/ format and two extra args for that one :P
< 1292785835 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yes, the code in question does one vfprintf and one fprintf and expects them to be concatenated.
< 1292785841 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, you can just use a buffer there.
< 1292785870 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vararg-macros perhaps? #define foo(fmt, ...) real_log_printf("%d" fmt, timestamp(), ##__VA_ARGS__)
< 1292785873 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/log/stop/g
< 1292785905 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the ## magic is an gcc-extension though, without that you'll have interesting issues when doing foo("bar") with no extra args
< 1292785963 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the problem with doing two prints though?
< 1292786048 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: The "print" adds the timestamp, so the calling code -- which does fprintf(stderr, "DIE: %s:%d: ", file, line); vfprintf(stderr, fmt, ap); -- would end up having those two things split in two separate timestamped lines.
< 1292786052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1292786056 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1292786103 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, the ## gcc-onliness is why I have a die() macro and a dief() macro separately. (Though I already have nested functions and whatnot, so gcc-extensions aren't really much of an issue.)
< 1292786148 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey
< 1292786157 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you guys know some debuggers for DOS?
< 1292786165 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's DEBUG
< 1292786170 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh
< 1292786192 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :djgpp might include a gdb for dos
< 1292786210 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to tap into one game's memory and check some stuff there
< 1292786218 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gdb probably only works with DPMI or dos4gw though
< 1292786246 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Have fun fixing conflicts with what I just pushed to github, though.
< 1292786282 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also fixed the leak you had added in cmd_slap.
< 1292786291 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell..this awesome footage make one's flesh creep
< 1292786307 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuh?
< 1292786309 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJrtROuQFfk&list=PL408EDD9348488A28&index=11&playnext=4&fmt=18
< 1292786313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: If this were scapegoat ...
< 1292786403 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort of liked the "//goto: usage: //goto x z" over "usage: //goto x z", but whatevers.
< 1292786433 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: koyaanisqatsi is boring
< 1292786459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Really? It seemed like super-weird duplication to me.
< 1292786466 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it? it's the final scene right
< 1292786474 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm super-weird like that.
< 1292786496 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess you have to tune in someway.. or just be in the right mood
< 1292786510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Guess how lucky I am?
< 1292786516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's right! I get to rewrite handle_chat!
< 1292786527 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why's that?
< 1292786532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: log_print
< 1292786587 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use a glib string and g_string_append_printf/g_string_append/g_string_append_whatever instead of those separate prints.
< 1292786588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hmm, is there a "more efficient" way than str_join to build up a big ol' string incrementally in glib?
< 1292786593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, look at that, you're so helpful.
< 1292786647 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GString *s = g_string_new(""); and so on; then at the end you do a "gchar *cstr = g_string_free(s, FALSE);" and it gets rid of the glib string structures but gives you the single c-string back.
< 1292786662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glib is so weird.
< 1292786691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But, so I don't end up saying it in my head all the time when coding: LOLOLOL CONSTRUCT A NEW G-STRING ahem.)
< 1292786716 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like something stuffed with loads of dynamic allocations and indirection... how will you handle out-of-memory errors in log_print? :)
< 1292786725 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: It's not "real" logging.
< 1292786729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't! Yaaaay.
< 1292786735 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: It's just whatever ends up in the stdout of the program.
< 1292786743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can totally tee it to a file, man.
< 1292786749 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd, why does the rocket change a short way into that video?
< 1292786759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://library.gnome.org/devel/glib/stable/glib-String-Chunks.html This is probably better than a GString, but GStrings look more convenient.
< 1292786765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(LOLOLOLOL CONVENIENT G-STRING HAHA ahem.)
< 1292786784 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover? ..this is the challanger
< 1292786795 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION laughs.

< 1292786796 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're printing out silly text to the console, I'd really just go with the convenient choice.
< 1292786801 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is definitely not the Challenger.
< 1292786832 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right
< 1292786850 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not even a space shuttle
< 1292786861 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one thing, the Challenger disaster was 4 years after Koyaanisqatsi was released; for another, that rocket is clearly a Saturn V in the early bits of the video.
< 1292786871 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It changes to something else after it takes off.
< 1292786886 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :changes?
< 1292786891 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it blows up
< 1292786911 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean the rocket that blows up is not a Saturn V.
< 1292786925 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.. changing some states.. you can say indeed
< 1292786947 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :particle transformation matrix
< 1292787047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What.
< 1292787228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        char stamp[23];
< 1292787228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        time_t now = time(NULL);
< 1292787228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        struct tm *tm = localtime(&now);
< 1292787228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        strftime(stamp, sizeof(stamp),  "%FT%H:%M:%s%z", tm);
< 1292787228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        printf("%s ", stamp);
< 1292787228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        vprintf(fmt, ap);
< 1292787230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        putchar('\n');
< 1292787241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Why is, instead of the timezone, it printing :?
< 1292787246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's some garbage after the space but I think that's handle_chat.
< 1292787257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-12-19T19:30:�` [CHAT] 'Welcome to a322.org Minecraft server'
< 1292787257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-12-19T19:30:�v�� [PLAYER] appear: fizzief
< 1292787257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-12-19T19:30: [CHAT]  What's that? You think you fixed it? HAHAHAHA
< 1292787260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, no.
< 1292787265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first two have corruption before the space.
< 1292787269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So /something/ is WRONG.
< 1292787279 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, another question: can you tell me which rocket-part it is, focused by the cam in that epic falling sequence
< 1292787311 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a thruster and the tattered remains of the hull above it.
< 1292787349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: How fast can fungot generate babble?
< 1292787349 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a worker is any body of the rule defining a specific
< 1292787351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The command-line version.
< 1292787372 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not too fast. I can benchmark quickly. Depends also on the model. How so?
< 1292787375 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A second-stage thruster, too, since the first stage has at least 3.
< 1292787415 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats kind of precise :) thx
< 1292787418 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292787460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Turns out it doesn't matter!
< 1292787481 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The command-line version is a Perl script, though; one could whip up a trivial C version to be real fast. And it does the whole disk-reading-all-the-time (though I suppose disk cache will take care of that).
< 1292787494 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Perl script is probably slower than the Befunge code.
< 1292787540 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 words per second with europarl.
< 1292787624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  The Perl script is probably slower than the Befunge code.
< 1292787652 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :251)  The Perl script is probably slower than the Befunge code.
< 1292787673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Any ideas w/ my string corruption?
< 1292787766 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not immediately. Pastebin the surroundings of the function too?
< 1292787795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://sprunge.us/ZBYY
< 1292787801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Or do you mean the functions around it? 'cuz that would be weird.
< 1292787821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha... %s must be wrong.
< 1292787829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-12-19T19:32:[corruption]
< 1292787837 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Why is, instead of the timezone, it printing :? <-- maybe timezone is not set?
< 1292787839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       %s     The number of seconds since the Epoch, 1970-01-01 00:00:00 +0000
< 1292787839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :              (UTC). (TZ)
< 1292787841 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-90.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292787842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that explains little, but I want %S.
< 1292787844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: no, it is
< 1292787848 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k
< 1292787853 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I managed to not notice that.
< 1292787863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, that corruption don't look like seconds to me.
< 1292787895 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just read %H:%M, looked at your pasted examples, went "hours and minutes, okay" and didn't wonder about seconds.
< 1292787907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-12-19T19:44:22+ [CHAT] 'Welcome to a322.org Minecraft server'
< 1292787908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-12-19T19:44:22+  [PLAYER] appear: fizzief
< 1292787909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What.
< 1292787919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"+" doesn't rightlook.
< 1292787936 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the right character there to be the first-thing-of-timestamp.
< 1292787941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1292787953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I'm without enough space.
< 1292787959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Still, I would like it if it appended Z for UTC.
< 1292787968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: In fact, perhaps it doesn't really need to put the timestamp there at all.
< 1292787973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: People know what timezone they're in, right?
< 1292787978 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually.
< 1292788003 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you could s/localtime/gmtime/, put a Z in there manually, and just say it logs in sensible-time instead of local-time.
< 1292788004 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@75-174-216-120.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292788021 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, or, or! Timestamp in Internet time!
< 1292788035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Or you could s/localtime/gmtime/, put a Z in there manually, and just say it logs in sensible-time instead of local-time.
< 1292788039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If this were meant to be a useful log, sure.
< 1292788047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But actually it's just so that you can see general timestamps :P
< 1292788073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: In fact, I probably shouldn't bother logging dates. Nobody *really* wants to log this to a file.
< 1292788093 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, %H:%M:%S or even [%H:%M:%S] could be okay.
< 1292788111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: There's already bra-kets around the [CHAT] and the like, so that would look weird.
< 1292788116 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess.
< 1292788132 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a very serious matter, the formatting of this thing.
< 1292788134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION separates it out into a print_timestamp function to use in do_die.

< 1292788137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: YES IT IS
< 1292788170 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you already merge in my changes that add more plain printfs inside world.c? :p
< 1292788225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Not yet!
< 1292788237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: BTW, I'm making DIEs go to stdout, since they're part of the "log".
< 1292788239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that okay?
< 1292788262 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292788325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292788426 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure.
< 1292788443 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why are you doing quantum physics in an MC mapping tool?
< 1292788462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Because.
< 1292788489 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's not just a mapping tool, it's nowadays also a slapping tool.
< 1292788501 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goody!
< 1292788540 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-90.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292788559 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :java.io.IOException: Bad packet id 200 at gk.b(SourceFile:89) at jq.c(SourceFile:149) at jq.c(SourceFile:9) at pf.run(SourceFile:59) -- ooh, haven't seen that one before.
< 1292788742 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292788775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/code/mcmap$ ./mcmap -x 2 -s 300x a322.org:25566
< 1292788775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:58:53 [DIE] main.c:171: Invalid window size: 300x
< 1292788783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think I just unintentionally enterprisey'd your option parsing.
< 1292788806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Sh... should I put it back? :p
< 1292788848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1292788867 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does "enterprisey'd" mean, exactly?
< 1292788917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/code/mcmap$ ./mcmap -x 2 -s 300x a322.org:25566
< 1292788918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:58:53 [DIE] main.c:171: Invalid window size: 300x
< 1292788919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That.
< 1292788939 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right.
< 1292788946 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't mind.
< 1292788950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY ENTERPRISEY
< 1292788950 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It *is* a bit silly, though.
< 1292788956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, but, unified functions!
< 1292788970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The alternative is die_due_to_user_error_f and die_due_to_code_error_f. :P
< 1292788981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I think I've seen that line-number-in-user-error thing in some other big software package. Apache?
< 1292789022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                print_log("[BAD] Unknown packet id: 0x%02x", t);
< 1292789023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's bad.
< 1292789036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*log_print
< 1292789047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can I make a print_log function that prints the logarithm of a given number? :p
< 1292789088 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could actually be a dief there.
< 1292789095 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's actually going to die.
< 1292789106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, it is? Wonderful.
< 1292789120 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feel free to make it a die instead of log+return 0.
< 1292789126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "Dief" is such a wonderful word.
< 1292789129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so... Nazi.
< 1292789130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIEF!
< 1292789138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be slightly mad.
< 1292789156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/code/mcmap$ ./mcmap -x -y -s 300x300 a322.org:25566
< 1292789156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:05:14 [DIE] main.c:144: Option parsing failed: Cannot parse integer value '-y' for -x
< 1292789164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that the "Option parsing failed:" bit there is slightly redundant.
< 1292789183 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are directly from glib's option-parser, I guess.
< 1292789193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1292789200 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I can't recall writing such a thing.
< 1292789202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to pull in your changes.
< 1292789208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You wrote "Option parsing failed:", though.
< 1292789210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is just silley.
< 1292789212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, lowercase o.)
< 1292789214 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I did?
< 1292789220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1292789230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Auto-merging main.c
< 1292789230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Auto-merging protocol.c
< 1292789230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Auto-merging world.c
< 1292789230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONFLICT (content): Merge conflict in world.c
< 1292789230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Automatic merge failed; fix conflicts and then commit the result.
< 1292789237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think the merge went much more badly than git suggests.
< 1292789248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<<<<<<< HEAD
< 1292789248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        log_print("[PLAYER] appear: %s", name);
< 1292789248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=======
< 1292789248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        if (name)
< 1292789248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        {
< 1292789249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                printf("[PLAYER] appear: %s\n", name);
< 1292789251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>>>>>> dddd7178398e71bc67ef5aaa9312f0a40d8ed4b0
< 1292789253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh.
< 1292789259 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not much of a conflict there.
< 1292789280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1292789295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "VEHICLE"? Heh.
< 1292789300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[TRANSPORTATION MECHANISM]
< 1292789313 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I originally wrote CART, but I think the same thing will apply to BOATs.
< 1292789321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Anyway, apparently by "a bunch", you mean "three".
< 1292789327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, a whole THREE printfs you added! Oh god!
< 1292789335 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three's a... bunch.
< 1292789362 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are more in the nature of debugging messages than actual sensible user messages, but, well.
< 1292789368 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who wouldn't want to see some entity ids?
< 1292789409 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Coincidentally! I think I fixed the "red streaks" problem.
< 1292789430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So, uh, I didn't get any debug messages.
< 1292789433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I think I forgot to `make'.
< 1292789441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I didn't.
< 1292789445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:09:22 [CHAT] 'Welcome to a322.org Minecraft server'
< 1292789445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^C[VEHICLE] Mounted 855718elliott@dinky:~/code/mcmap$
< 1292789446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What.
< 1292789457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1292789459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot to loggify them.
< 1292789541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Mind if I go all OCD and make everything have a four-char [XXXX]?
< 1292789556 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nnnno, if you seriously don't have anything better to do. :p
< 1292789588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's Christmas, why would I have anything better to do? :)
< 1292789603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think I might make the die prefix [GAK!].
< 1292789608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's four bytes, after all!
< 1292789611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, six.
< 1292789685 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or DIEF, you seemed to like it.
< 1292789733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So does your thing handle pig-riding?
< 1292789754 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't quite know.
< 1292789759 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to test a boat now.
< 1292789786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:15:49 [DIED] main.c:147: Cannot parse integer value '-y' for -x
< 1292789788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO DAMN ENTERPRISEY.
< 1292789863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OK, pushed my enterprises.
< 1292789879 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't believe that there's a way to run gdb under DOS
< 1292789883 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in dosbox for example
< 1292789890 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't quite remember how to make a boat.
< 1292789895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: djgpp
< 1292789897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no?
< 1292789901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's a U shape.
< 1292789905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Bottom two rows.
< 1292789907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sticks or wood, I forget.
< 1292789922 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wood-U worked.
< 1292789948 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oo, works.
< 1292789995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers making his Minecraft start-up script start mcmap.

< 1292789996 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[VEHICLE] mounted 867873
< 1292789996 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[VEHICLE] unmounted 867873 by destroying
< 1292790007 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That was before your changes.)
< 1292790033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You might want to remove the IDs and make it (to modify the message in mine) "[INFO] Mounted vehicle.", "[INFO] Dismounted vehicle by destroying.", etc.
< 1292790045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (It's dismount, not unmount :P)
< 1292790095 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dismounted the filesystem.
< 1292790106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Blame Unix.
< 1292790175 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pushed a memory leak fix for your handle_chat. :p
< 1292790358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's not my fault C sucks. :p
< 1292790379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What would be really nice is if scaling scaled the little people indicators too... I know you already know of that, though.
< 1292790436 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-90.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292790530 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, my stepdad randomly decided to swap out routers.
< 1292790546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His new router hands back 192.168.1.1 for every DHCP request.
< 1292790548 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I should probably just buy a polygon-filler and draw the indicators with that.
< 1292790578 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meaning there's several systems on the same network with the same IP address.
< 1292790606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Completely randomly? :P
< 1292790611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And: AWESOME.
< 1292790617 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, sorry, 192.168.1.2, not 192.168.1.1.
< 1292790621 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, yeah.
< 1292790626 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just hands the same damned IP back.
< 1292790627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Put OpenWRT on it.
< 1292790628 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the one-person router.
< 1292790645 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He stopped working on it because "works for me".
< 1292790670 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'll probably do that to the old one.
< 1292790720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Was there any reason to change the router? :P
< 1292790728 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: None!
< 1292790749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Do you really have to buy one? I mean, you just do one more/less pixel each time.
< 1292790797 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the rectangles are already with FillRect.
< 1292790807 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The triangle-drawing is a bitmap though.
< 1292790815 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoo, the old one is currently supported by OpenWRT.
< 1292790823 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess eight-directional triangles I could just special-case instead of using a general-purpose polygon routine.
< 1292790834 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'll fix that at point X.
< 1292790864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: N-directional triangles would be fun too, though.
< 1292790931 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I don't want to redraw the map all the time just when you move your head around.
< 1292790944 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And it seems to send an awful amount of the player-look packets.)
< 1292790949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You could just redraw the triangules.
< 1292790962 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The code is not clever enough to repaint only part of the background.
< 1292791014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But it's enterprisey!
< 1292791021 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Away now.
< 1292791038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ENTERPRISEY
< 1292791061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Major mcmap updates.
< 1292791239 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh
< 1292791258 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gdb does not recognize this game as executable
< 1292791266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Well, djgpp is like, extended-only.
< 1292791274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Hmm ...
< 1292791280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: gdb can do remote debugging via serial port.
< 1292791284 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the game uses dos4gw i thinkk
< 1292791287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Perhaps you can convince a compiler to cross-compile for DOS with support for that?
< 1292791290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, djgpp has its own stuff.
< 1292791294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Oh, so you don't have the code.
< 1292791296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: I think you're fucked.
< 1292791301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try DOSEmu maybe? It might have gdb support.
< 1292791311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think mcmap should come with its own service manager, to restart mcmap if it ever dies.
< 1292791436 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weeelll
< 1292791441 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried using dosbox debugger
< 1292791468 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the game won't run properly when dosbox is in debug mode
< 1292791606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What would you say little patches of black would be, in post-halloween terrain?
< 1292791643 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pumpkins, if you haven't mapped them.
< 1292791645 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reeds, too.
< 1292791657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Pumpkins have a mapping.
< 1292791664 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reeds, then?
< 1292791668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (You might want to "git pull && make"; there have been a lot of updates t'day.)
< 1292791689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Answer: Shrooms.
< 1292791704 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, on sabbatical due to getting Oolite back, remember?
< 1292791713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Psht.
< 1292791714 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, bochs' debugger only displays the lower 32 bits of address space when you ask it to dump the page tables
< 1292791727 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, psht to you too, sir!
< 1292791801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Try remote gdb. :p
< 1292791806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: Requires kernel support.)
< 1292791813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think.)
< 1292791814 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it seems I have made my current page table work maybe I won't bother, but it would be really nice if it could a) actually display all mapped pages, b) check for errors in the page tables and complain visibly
< 1292791818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And a serial port driver.)
< 1292791829 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how would kernel support be involved in asking bochs what it's emulating?
< 1292792046 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292792057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: eh?
< 1292792065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: remote gdb requires a serial driver, I mean
< 1292792069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think kernel support
< 1292792117 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1292792128 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely that is not required to connect gdb to bochs
< 1292792141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: You mean ... debug bochs itself?
< 1292792150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean debug your kernel as it runs in qemu/bochs (qemu has better support IIRC).
< 1292792160 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I am talking about debugging the thing running in bochs
< 1292792164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, actually, bochs has all the support, right?
< 1292792168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't you just use bochs/gdb?
< 1292792183 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can, but gdb is useless for this debugging
< 1292792222 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292792225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: can't you just do
< 1292792228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print (*locationofpagetables)
< 1292792230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it not that simple
< 1292792261 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I already know what bytes the tables contain, what I'm interested in is what it's being interpreted as so that I can see what's wrong
< 1292792298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright then
< 1292792310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hmm, it would be nice if your current (x,z) coordinates were in a corner of the mcmap window.
< 1292792338 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't any of you file these things in the github?
< 1292792367 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it would also be nice to have (optional) coordinate labels (say 100 block divisions) at the edge of the window too.
< 1292792380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm a developer, dammit, USERS file bugs, not me!
< 1292792399 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can also implement that as you will, but you'd better do the text-drawing ELEGANTLY.
< 1292792400 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O'
< 1292792402 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SDL doesn't do text.
< 1292792407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm not sure what you mean with coordinate labels, though?
< 1292792414 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like maps have.
< 1292792420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also, I'd just use a TOTALLY SNAZZY BITMAP FONT that I would have JUST MADE UP AT THE TIME.
< 1292792421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ah.
< 1292792436 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese for "prostitution" is 売春. Literally, "selling youth".
< 1292792446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But, um, SDL_ttf.
< 1292792452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That's the japs for ya!
< 1292792453 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not part of SDL.
< 1292792461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: No, but you have it installed already. :p
< 1292792470 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because a euphemism ceased to have non-euphemistic usage.
< 1292792473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(glib isn't part of SDL either.)
< 1292792484 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not the development packages.
< 1292792492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, that's your fault!
< 1292792498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think I had to install glib-dev. :p
< 1292792931 0 :nooga!nooga@jasminek.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793495 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793498 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793501 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793502 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793514 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793517 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793519 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793521 0 :yiyus_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793521 0 :fxkr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793523 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793524 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793529 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793532 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793532 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793534 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793535 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793537 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793543 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793549 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793551 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793555 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793558 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793566 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793566 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793577 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793588 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793596 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793599 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793605 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793625 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793631 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793644 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793650 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793654 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292793782 0 :nooga!nooga@jasminek.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@75-174-216-120.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5fa.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-9-134.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-37.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :tswett!~Warrigal@eos01.cis.gvsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@209.59.220.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :Leonidas!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :jix!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :yiyus_!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-130-244.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :yiyus!~124271242@67.202.106.57 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :fxkr!~fxkr@unaffiliated/fxkr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!~user@2002:5870:38d7:1:20e:a6ff:fe6f:2288 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:38d7::1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.251.165.38 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :mycroftiv!~ircguy@h69-128-47-242.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793782 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292793844 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I like it, it prevents me from leaving any warnings around.
< 1292793845 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear clog: I love you forever. Please don't die again.
< 1292793847 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292793878 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1292793901 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-90.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292794057 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292794140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So how do you feel about the wonderful wonderful GPLv2?
< 1292794377 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't feel very strongly about licenses, as long as they are something sensible. GLfunge is GPLv2, I think.
< 1292794379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, I'll just bundle https://github.com/antirez/linenoise for simplicity. It can probably do the same things as this.
< 1292794385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(editline sucks ass, it turns out.)
< 1292794500 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I'd go to the trouble of bloating that thing with a real line-editing library (even one that says "20k lines of code" as if twenty whole thousand lines is somehow small), but then again, I'm not the one doing it.
< 1292794522 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The line-editing will be something like ten times the size of mcmap itself, though.
< 1292794532 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wc -l *.c *.h => 2433.
< 1292794552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie:
< 1292794552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * line editing lib needs to be 20,000 lines of C code.
< 1292794553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1292794555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* linenoise.h -- guerrilla line editing library against the idea that a
< 1292794556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * line editing lib needs to be 20,000 lines of C code.
< 1292794564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's just from the guy who made Redis; I found it when googlign.
< 1292794565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*googling.
< 1292794570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: There's a good chance it does what editline doesn't.
< 1292794575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, *shrug*.
< 1292794585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it is actually 21k lines. :p
< 1292794596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But anyway, you're "meant" to just include it in your program.
< 1292794598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And hey, Android uses it.)
< 1292794601 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, it is a bit more reasonably sized.
< 1292794656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What, 21k is more reasonable than 20k?
< 1292794690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You can just place leaves like that?
< 1292794693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Dude, let us place bedrock.
< 1292794702 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather you didn't.
< 1292794712 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's not possible to actually get rid of it.
< 1292794728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You - so boring.
< 1292794796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm planning to put unobtanium in one of my computer games
< 1292794806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the theory being that it's completely indestructable or movable by any means whatsoever
< 1292794807 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I'm looking at the right https://github.com/antirez/linenoise then linenoise.c is 599 lines (544 sloc), and linenoise.h is 56 lines (50 sloc); so if there isn't a lot more code hidden somewhere, it does look more reasonably-sized.
< 1292794821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, indeed, it is. I wonder how I miscounted.
< 1292794821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, it's completely useless; it has a bunch of highly useful properties, but there's no way to actually obtain the stuff to use it yourself
< 1292794827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's bedrock :P
< 1292794844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (bedrock is useful because you can build indestructable buildings out of it; so making it non-unobtainium would make it uselessium)
< 1292794850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I thought there might be an equivalent
< 1292794853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can I replace mcmap with a shell script that starts mcmap.real under ledit? :p
< 1292794855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it might be an equivalent
< 1292794866 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do that at home.
< 1292794872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that unobtainum is a hilarious name for it, as it's normally used as a placeholder name for incredibly valuable fictional materials
< 1292794875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, but not in polite company.
< 1292794891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'd use ncurses, but that would screw up >file.
< 1292794960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think I'll try the actual readline.
< 1292794968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And TAINT THE CODE.
< 1292795073 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott!
< 1292795074 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you *want*, you could add some #ifdefs that let the taint-fearing user disable that bit.
< 1292795080 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION taints elliott's code

< 1292795092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It is the FSF's considered opinion that that does not prevent the STD from spreading.
< 1292795099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, they are probably right.
< 1292795187 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the whole clisp thing is rather more complex than "he made it readline-compatible".
< 1292795200 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you could create a fork in github. (Though would a person then be allowed to contribute same code to both projects?)
< 1292795205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: I know how complex it is.
< 1292795208 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taint, as in, forced to use GPL?
< 1292795229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think I might just include readline and force you to GPL it, because it, unlike all the other libraries, does not mess up when other input comes along.
< 1292795254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (Perhaps one day someone will write a better line-reader and we can round up all 2 contributors to get them to agree to a license change.)
< 1292795256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p
< 1292795283 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you make it work with readline, that's all right for me.
< 1292795540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, silly-todo: Option to rl_ding() when someone mentions your name. :-)
< 1292795576 0 :BRASIL!~cardan@189.97.11.90 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292795608 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRASIL
< 1292795707 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SAMBA!
< 1292795729 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olé
< 1292795832 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Is rlwrap or equivalent not an option
< 1292795834 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vaguely suspects hagb4rd of confusing spanish and portuguese

< 1292795852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Sort of, but it's nicer to have it directly in there (and fizzie won't let me turn mcmap into a shell script.)
< 1292795863 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can do that at home already!
< 1292795876 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just let people turn it into a shell script
< 1292795889 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or make your own startup script start mcmap within some sort of readline-wrapper and minecraft.
< 1292795910 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't want the "main" branch to require some arbitrary readline-wrappers to run.
< 1292795934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Right. Thus building it in :P
< 1292795941 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need to require it
< 1292795953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway I'd have to do, like, 99% of the work anyway if I was using fread etc.
< 1292795955 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make a script that checks for the existence of rlwrap/whatever in some preferred order and picks the first it finds
< 1292795959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact more, since readline() handles allocation for me.
< 1292795961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So nyah.
< 1292796107 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does a whois and now vaguely suspects hagb4rd of being a native spanish speaker

< 1292796124 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope.. right you are
< 1292796169 0 :BRASIL!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292796237 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Or you could use glib's "read a line with automagic allocations" function, and the wrapper you prefer.
< 1292796260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "I'm fizzie look at me I'm fizzie." SORRY FIZZIE I'VE ALREADY WRITTEN THE READLINE CODE AND JUST NEED TO HANDLE SIGNALS
< 1292796260 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You could use glib!
< 1292796262 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But I don't mind the readline dependency either, so whatever makes you happy.)
< 1292796264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish it didn't have to be this way.
< 1292796269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is.
< 1292796272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yeah, using glib is ALWAYS fun
< 1292796285 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd like to learn more languages.. i love spanish, and as far as i know at least written are spanish and port. very similar
< 1292796287 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Just need to handle signals" doesn't sound very nice either.
< 1292796373 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it sounds very differently @oerjan
< 1292796391 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: yeah it's just that i think olé is very stereotypically just spanish.  however i _did_ have to look it up to check it isn't in portuguese :D
< 1292796397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Just need to handle signals" doesn't sound very nice either.
< 1292796403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: readline is /meant/ to do it, it just isn't doing it properly :D
< 1292796410 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :editline?
< 1292796430 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you're not sullying my oh-so-pristine utility with ugly and hacky workarounds.
< 1292796438 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<- doesn't _actually_ know either of them
< 1292796496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Absolutely not!
< 1292796503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Editline fucks up when someone else talks.
< 1292796504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Long story.
< 1292796514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it didn't handle signals either, so shut up and let me fix this bug :P
< 1292796621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:09:41 [DIED] main.c:81: proxy thread (server -> client) write failed
< 1292796627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That... should that happen?
< 1292796635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                char *line = readline("> ");
< 1292796635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                if (*line) add_history(line);
< 1292796635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                inject_to_server(packet_new(PACKET_TO_ANY, PACKET_CHAT, line));
< 1292796635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                free(line);
< 1292796655 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it happens if you get disconnected for any reason.
< 1292796854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh -- it was "Chat message too long."
< 1292796856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What's the max length?
< 1292796869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About a hundred bytes.
< 1292796884 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :103 or something, IIRC.
< 1292796917 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly s/bytes/characters, not entirely sure on that.
< 1292796938 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It needs to be in UTF-8.)
< 1292796965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> /playerlist
< 1292796965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:15:22 [CHAT] Player list (1/10): ehird
< 1292796968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Booyah.
< 1292796978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now just a bit of signal-handling and WE'RE DONE
< 1292796995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so it also segfaults on ^D despite resetting the terminal correctly; I've no idea why.
< 1292797009 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/who is an alias for that.
< 1292797016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it is? Thanks.
< 1292797034 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you guys like electro music?.. in case you
< 1292797042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's probably thread-related issues, I bet.
< 1292797050 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aer in need of a little distraction --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qCFSYAgbAI&list=PL408EDD9348488A28&index=33&playnext=5&fmt=18
< 1292797063 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case ..sry
< 1292797087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Heh, //coords doesn't work on the console for obvious reasons.
< 1292797093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Nor //goto. But "whatever", I say.
< 1292797103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (Unless you have a generic send_chat_to_server_maybe function somewhere?)
< 1292797161 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I don't. You could check for // and call cmd_parse instead of inject_to_server if you like.
< 1292797193 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders why you double /'s in minecraft...

< 1292797205 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The interface for cmd_parse is a bit strange, it'd be something like cmd_parse(line+2, strlen(line)-2);
< 1292797212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you don't, it's mcmap's command syntax
< 1292797218 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292797221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: since /foo are server commands, we decided to play it safe
< 1292797231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (since we intercept the chat packets)
< 1292797238 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense
< 1292797267 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as the server doesn't start to implement any // commands.
< 1292797288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I am happy to slit Notch's throat in that case.
< 1292797339 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292797486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Function: void rl_free (void *mem)
< 1292797486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Deallocate the memory pointed to by mem. mem must have been allocated by malloc.
< 1292797487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useful!
< 1292797753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Does glib have any special signal-handler functions?
< 1292797962 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall having used any.
< 1292798085 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The underlying threads are pthreads (at least that'd be my assumption), and those have signal masks if you want to mess with which thread handles signals, but I'm not sure if glib's threading side exposes that.
< 1292798095 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit platform-specific weirdness.
< 1292798106 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Signals and threads don't tend to be a happy combination.
< 1292798186 0 :zeotrope!~a@unaffiliated/zeotrope JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292798273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeah ... I just want these signal handlers to execute, in, like, "every thread".
< 1292798383 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know, you can't do *that* in a plain pthreads thing. With luck you can just make sure it executes in one particular thread.
< 1292798416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So "just do the readline in another thread" was your way of saying "ha ha". :p
< 1292798438 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't really know readline dabbles with signals.
< 1292798477 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In retrospect I guess it has to for the terminal-caused ones, but anyhow.
< 1292798478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Function: int rl_set_signals (void)
< 1292798479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Install Readline's signal handler for SIGINT, SIGQUIT, SIGTERM, SIGALRM, SIGTSTP, SIGTTIN, SIGTTOU, and SIGWINCH, depending on the values of rl_catch_signals and rl_catch_sigwinch.
< 1292798483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: How else do you think it resets the terminal?
< 1292798486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I could use an atexit...
< 1292798527 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1292798539 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292798564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An alternate interface is available to plain readline(). Some applications need to interleave keyboard I/O with file, device, or window system I/O, typically by using a main loop to select() on various file descriptors. To accomodate this need, readline can also be invoked as a `callback' function from an event loop. There are functions available to make this easy.
< 1292798568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY SO
< 1292798582 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292798609 0 :nooga!nooga@jasminek.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292798621 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure that will help you.
< 1292798645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not.
< 1292798647 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that you can'd do "wait for SDL events" and "select() on a fd" simultaneously.
< 1292798688 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I think I'll be sleeping now.
< 1292798795 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think hooking to atexit is where SDL does it's emergency cleanup too.
< 1292798811 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though actually I'm not quite sure.
< 1292798868 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might also install signal handlers of its own, because if the SDL_Init is before the blockinmg "wait-for-connections" call, you can't interrupt it with ^C any more.
< 1292798979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you entirely sure you don't want to do the input-line handlinmg cleanly in another process?-)
< 1292798990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Was that your lag or mine?
< 1292799006 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which lag?
< 1292799045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Tons of messages came in at once.
< 1292799052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems 'twas mine.
< 1292799058 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could even have been freenode's
< 1292799117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Dude.
< 1292799124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That is the first time you have ever not terminated a sentence properly.
< 1292799198 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SURELY WE ARE IN THE END TIMES
< 1292799256 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried my very best, but my fingers betrayed me.
< 1292799294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Do you guys not have heating in Finland?
< 1292799319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically I'm already asleep, so I'll just blame the dream-fizzie.
< 1292799353 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't have heating in Scotland!
< 1292799354 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, we just cuddle with polar bears when it gets too cold.
< 1292799376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: AWWWWWbrb moving to Finland
< 1292799843 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION growls at being unable to block blocks of IPs larger than /16 in MediaWiki

< 1292799881 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to block a /0 block

< 1292799950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Um, you do realise you mean a /1, right?
< 1292799972 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does /1 include every single IP address?
< 1292799993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: It's 1/1 of the address space, so you work it out.
< 1292800071 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Range_blocks
< 1292800079 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That suggests that /1 is half of the address space
< 1292800097 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, do IPs greater than 127. exist?
< 1292800104 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes they do
< 1292800106 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ELLIOTT IS TEH WRONG
< 1292800122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, indeed ...
< 1292800139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Anyway, it's not "a" /0 block, it's "the" /0 block.
< 1292800264 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION WTFs at a spambot talking about a "lethal dose"

< 1292800270 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way to bring in the customers there
< 1292800290 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lethal dose of spam
< 1292800508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Read as sperm. What.
< 1292800511 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wikisuperosity.com/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges
< 1292800518 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Disclaimer: [it's slow], because it's written in python. Eventually I'll rewrite it an C and it'll be very, very fast."
< 1292800527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: haha
< 1292800533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: what's that about
< 1292800549 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: your brain actually managed to invent something worse than a lethal dose of spam.  congratulations.
< 1292800556 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: about that "redo" thing someone posted on progit (make killer)
< 1292800566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Superosity is the greatest comic in existence. There are many comics in existence that have earned genius-level Comic Quotient's (CQ) for short periods of time. Calvin and Hobbes demonstrated that a CQ of 145 was possible by combining beautiful artwork, kinetic humor, and philosophically balanced characters with a semi-episodic story structure. Jim Davis, the creator of Garfield, once earned a CQ of 136 for a six month period in the late 1980s
< 1292800566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has consistently held himself in the mid 120's by applying a consistently minimalistic banality. Scott Adams, creator of Dilbert, holds the honor of maintaining 128 for more than six years in a row. Family Circus, on the other hand, continues to exist in syndication despite a CQ below 80.
< 1292800566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Superosity however, holds the distinction of having achieved an average CQ of 193 over the last ten years. This places it approximately five and a half standard deviations away from the average mainstream comic. This singular fact would appear to be mysterious if not for the concomitant fact that creator Chris Crosby is truly a creative genius of the type that Greek Myths would be written about (and by) if this were presently a Greek World.]]
< 1292800573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Why does this wiki exist, and how can I stop it existing.
< 1292800592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: oh, it's chris2's!
< 1292800665 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, you found genuine content that wasn't touched?
< 1292800674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: That is not genuine content, that is a pile of shit.
< 1292800683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: [[mcmap: ../../src/xcb_io.c:249: process_responses: Assertion `(((long) (dpy->last_request_read) - (long) (dpy->request)) <= 0)' failed.]]
< 1292800689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I AM TOTALLY CLOSE TO WORKING THIS OUT
< 1292800704 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: who's that?
< 1292800721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: he invented tumblelogs and did a bunch of other things too
< 1292800726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(w/ http://anarchaia.org/)
< 1292800753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: oh -- he did not write the program
< 1292800755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just posted the reddit link
< 1292800760 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292800820 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders making a Python script that will autoblock every IP

< 1292800852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: You could just disable editing.
< 1292800855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or protect every page.
< 1292800881 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think I'd need access to server-side config stuff to disable editing?
< 1292800896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: fizzie: https://github.com/fis/mcmap; now with chatting support. (I accidentally called it readline in the commit message, oh well.)
< 1292800911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Doesn't handle // commands because of internal structure, but it's fully readline-enabled.
< 1292800922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that redirecting output to a file now doesn't work for some reason, however; I'll fix it later.
< 1292800931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Probably. If the rest of the pages are like that then spam is an improvement.
< 1292800967 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1292801124 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, genuine content:
< 1292801126 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wikisuperosity.com/index.php?title=List_of_Superosity_Characters
< 1292801214 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even more: http://wikisuperosity.com/index.php?title=Boardy
< 1292801536 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can never accuse me of not having esoteric taste
< 1292801547 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, eccentric might be a better word
< 1292801697 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm pleasantly surprised at how small the commit is. I was expecting something quite a lot more horrible. (Yes, yes, I'm still asleep.)
< 1292801712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, well, they do call me the God Of Code.
< 1292801724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (Really, though, the only bug was ^D and ^C handling, which required thought more than anything else.)
< 1292801749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (Readline thankfully does the right thing if you \r before printing, \n after, and then force it to redraw the line.)
< 1292801767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Re: redirecting to a file -- but now it has industry-standard timestamping!
< 1292801806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: BTW, hypothetically, it might be nice if snow-covered things just got tinted.
< 1292801812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Rather than, you know, becoming invisible in a sea of snow.
< 1292801815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(On overhead view.)
< 1292801832 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It doesn't quite do completely the right thing.
< 1292801843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you write an input line that's longer than the offending input, the trailing bits are left.
< 1292801868 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You probably need a \r[new output]\n instead of just \r[new output]\n.
< 1292801886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Very well then. (I should probably get a global set up for is_doing_readline_stuff to separate all this out.)
< 1292801892 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:23:21 [CHAT] Player list (2/10): ehird, fizziefjoi jojoi joi jjoisdfjoisdaof josadf joasdf joosajifd
< 1292801892 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:23:35 [CHAT]  Hello there, asleep-ghost.joi jojoi joi jjoisdfjoisdaof josadf joasdf joosajifd
< 1292801895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (And also that'd let you disable readline at compile time, for all the embedded system uses.
< 1292801902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uses.)
< 1292801904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*uses.)
< 1292801917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Vorpal apparently runs mcmap on another machine to the one he connects on for no apparent reason.
< 1292801925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Perhaps we should OPTOMIZE(tm) for LATENCY.
< 1292801928 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought he had quasi-sensible reasons.
< 1292801941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "Um, uh, RAM something this, full screen that."
< 1292801941 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it tries to be low-latency, though not very hard.
< 1292801960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It seems that he has a machine with not much RAM and a good GPU, and lots of RAM and a crap GPU.
< 1292801962 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mainly what it does is "forward the packet immediately after reading it".
< 1292801963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One may speculate freely.
< 1292801983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Tomorrow, I might see about saving the map state to a file.
< 1292802007 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway re clean-end-of-line, I don't mind if you just do \x1b[K instead of actually using the proper sequences from terminfo.
< 1292802008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also giving reeds a colour. They need one.
< 1292802012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, of course.
< 1292802020 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that it already does colors with hardcoded escapes.
< 1292802026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking printing spaces or something; I'm kinda dumb.
< 1292802030 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, the meds are really helping me focus on anything but homework
< 1292802158 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: *facepalm*
< 1292802251 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At some point you could add auto-wrapping (maybe even try it dumbly at spaces/hyphens when it looks okay) to forcibly conform the 100-char limit. Just in case one pastes in something and forgets to think about it.
< 1292802257 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But now really honestly gone.
< 1292802260 0 :reiffert!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292802324 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1292802489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think you should ban Sgeo_.
< 1292802502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: his request was, after all, in spirit eternal: if I give in to the temptation to IRC instead of homeworking, ban me.
< 1292802505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore you must
< 1292802525 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why do you hate me so>
< 1292802526 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1292802536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate everyone equally.
< 1292802539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just get special treatment.
< 1292802608 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: hagb4rd
< 1292802756 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what do you think of BitCoins?
< 1292802791 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229028183.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292803018 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292803250 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION will get some when the getting's good. (but not before)

< 1292803509 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: ah but when ordinary people _think_ the getting's good is just when schemes are about to collapse >:)
< 1292803561 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(applies to stocks, pyramid schemes and bubbles in general)
< 1292803563 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what makes you think I'm an ordinary person?
< 1292803665 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: believing you are smarter than the market is the first warning sign >:)
< 1292803674 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also a lack of sense of humor)
< 1292803711 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'll agree I should take an economics course or two, but it's pretty hard to claim I'm dumber than average
< 1292803747 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I do have a sense of humor; I just don't use it since it tends to distract from the point at hand)
< 1292804027 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229028183.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292804084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what oerjan said
< 1292804124 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone should take an economics course
< 1292804130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: well i object to any use of bitcounts to sell data.
< 1292804133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: other than that i have no opinion
< 1292804134 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be a prequisite to having an opinion
< 1292804199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: and to hell with anyone who self-educates amirite
< 1292804220 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: self-education is ok. but you have to pass the test.
< 1292804248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: heh. guess that'll ensure economics doesn't get too much innovation then!
< 1292804264 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, you're still allowed to innovate
< 1292804267 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not to have an opinion
< 1292804311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: obviously you're not being serious, but that doesn't stop you being stupid too.
< 1292804370 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was only half kidding
< 1292804388 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people should actually not be allowed to argue about government spending until they know the definition of the word "externality"
< 1292804390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: indeed. it's the best way to say wrong things without being called out on it.
< 1292804392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: cynical)
< 1292804416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: there are plenty of autodidactic geniuses. and there are plenty of college-educated morons.
< 1292804431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who passed exams, even.
< 1292804453 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know this fact
< 1292804494 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292804823 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone should know economics. *Especially* anyone who thinks about touching anything to do with the government.
< 1292804855 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, stupidity should be more painful.
< 1292804869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I support this painful-stupidity proposal
< 1292804894 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is strongly against

< 1292804929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: But think of the politicians screaming in pain on the TV.
< 1292804937 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the voters!
< 1292804939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (It would trigger for doing stupid things, not for being stupid, which is a different thing entirely.)
< 1292805128 0 :majawana!~Mj@den-69-171-160-200.evdo.leapwireless.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292805419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lava pit at (-2241,1966).
< 1292805426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((x,z))
< 1292805495 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229028183.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292805592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice tree at (-2009,1653); however I want wood so it shall die.
< 1292805692 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292805792 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to slap everyone who thinks of Bitcoins as a way to be free of transaction fees
< 1292805888 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4fee8.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292806230 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1292806246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supposedly "VORPAL WAS HERE".
< 1292806372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(-1777,1324) -- nice cave. Explore sometime.
< 1292806646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There used to be clay at (-1675,966), but it's all mine now.
< 1292806671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty damn tall dual-bodied tree just after that, too.
< 1292806693 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229028183.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292806985 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292807029 0 :hIchamAT!~hIchamAT@adsl-135-199-192-81.adsl2.iam.net.ma JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292807072 0 :hIchamAT!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292807945 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great, there's a convenient instruction for swapping the 'gs' segment when entering/leaving the kernel, but interrupt handlers can be called from both user and kernel mode - you need to figure out which context you came from and swapgs conditionally
< 1292808058 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229028183.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292808238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DID IT
< 1292808352 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292808773 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did what?
< 1292808785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: walked from (-4000,4000) to spawn
< 1292808789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you had a sign on the way, i put one next to it
< 1292808798 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what did that sign say
< 1292808803 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I completely don't remember it
< 1292808813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: VORPAL / WAS / HERE
< 1292808820 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wasn't that on the very marker?
< 1292808824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1292808829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-4000, not 4000
< 1292808832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's north-ways
< 1292808835 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh
< 1292808836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I put "BUT THEN EHIRD WAS HERE AND IT WAS MUCH COOLER" next to it, anyway. :p
< 1292808842 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :P
< 1292808874 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the marker at 4k,4k has a sign on top saying "Vorpal was here, and he was great"
< 1292808949 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1292809008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway, pull mcmap; it has been muchly modified today.
< 1292809213 0 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-57-77.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292809416 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229028183.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292809426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hm interesting http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Griefing doesn't list /anything/ about teleportation
< 1292809436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think fizzie may be the first one to discover this rather crippling bug.
< 1292809553 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Hacks subsection lists flying and noclip, which are arguably worse
< 1292809581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Arguably?
< 1292809585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: This thing can take down a server for minutes.
< 1292809597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Hell, arbitrary lengths of time (travel to 2^60 anyone?)
< 1292809612 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right, the DOS thing
< 1292809615 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forgot about that
< 1292809643 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292809686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Maybe I should tell Notch about it on Twitter by pinging him -- you know, full disclosure and all that... :-P
< 1292809816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh, and you could fill up some poor bastard's disk too.
< 1292810513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. At risk.
< 1292810549 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292810605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Are you so much at risk that you've given up playing?
< 1292810632 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229028183.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292810649 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, details
< 1292810739 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292811744 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229028183.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292811747 0 :majawana!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's up for some coffee?
< 1292811918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1292811953 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292812007 0 :majawana!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292812638 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292812688 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want no coffee, please
< 1292812841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: how's it a mess?
< 1292812944 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229028183.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292813053 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well... it's messy
< 1292813054 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!
< 1292813078 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292813148 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292814081 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229028183.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292814245 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292814906 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1292814926 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292815224 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, there?
< 1292815231 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, math question
< 1292815236 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229028183.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292815249 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaa
< 1292815251 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, for every m in Z_+ there is an n in Z_+ such that m^n (mod 65) == 64
< 1292815255 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that is the theory
< 1292815256 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, hi
< 1292815257 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it true?
< 1292815282 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1292815292 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee 65 = 13*5
< 1292815308 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it was something with prime, right
< 1292815330 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so it's false e.g. for m = 5
< 1292815333 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1292815351 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the equation is not correct for the problem
< 1292815363 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the problem in question gives 1 after 64
< 1292815366 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no 0
< 1292815374 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(stacking items in minecraft)
< 1292815387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's mod_63 really
< 1292815387 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wrong equation
< 1292815387 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292815402 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but then you couldn't get stacks of 64
< 1292815410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 = stack of 1
< 1292815413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 = stack of 2
< 1292815414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1292815420 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1292815421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1292815422 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292815422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mod_64 really
< 1292815423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then
< 1292815425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :63 = stack of 64
< 1292815455 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ factor 64
< 1292815455 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64: 2 2 2 2 2 2
< 1292815494 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yet 3 works
< 1292815539 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: actually the primeness has nothing to do with it, it's false for m = 65 which obviously generalizes
< 1292815548 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that equation)
< 1292815549 0 :boily!~boily@dsl-173-206-10-62.tor.primus.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292815604 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm
< 1292815644 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, then same question but given that instead of 0 it goes to 1
< 1292815662 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so that f(64) = 64, f(65) = 1
< 1292815674 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you haven't yet defined anything clearly
< 1292815680 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, true
< 1292815685 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I don't know how to define it
< 1292815695 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it is an iterative algorithm I want to study really
< 1292815705 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then give the bloody algorithm
< 1292815709 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yeah
< 1292815711 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets see
< 1292815738 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a number m. You can perform one operation on it. That operation is to double it
< 1292815740 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however
< 1292815761 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it goes to 65 you get 1 back
< 1292815773 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if it goes _above_ 65?
< 1292815780 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything above 64 gives you the value - 64
< 1292815786 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1292815787 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such that 66 - 64 = 2
< 1292815789 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on
< 1292815806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: basically there's a bug. you can duplicate a stack of N into two stacks of N.
< 1292815819 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(x) = let y = 2*x in if y > 64 then y-64 else y
< 1292815821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: vorpal wants to know: if you duplicate a stack until you have a 64 stack + leftovers, then do the same to the leftovers
< 1292815823 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, now, will repeatedly duping it sooner or later give you exactly 64
< 1292815825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: do you ever end up with just 64s?
< 1292815826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no leftovers
< 1292815845 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far most it took me is 3 "wraparounds"
< 1292815891 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm well this is the same as doubling mod 64, really
< 1292815900 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and asking whether you ever reach 0
< 1292815913 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, maybe.
< 1292815914 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is indeed true
< 1292815920 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, for all starting values?
< 1292815928 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1292815936 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :six doublings gives you 0 (mod 64)
< 1292815942 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1292816046 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a stack of odd size should give you that in exactly six
< 1292816056 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, probably
< 1292816068 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1292816073 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, how do you calculate that
< 1292816080 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just out of interest
< 1292816082 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d932908b.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292816088 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and i think the most wraparounds are if you start with 63
< 1292816118 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 2^6 = 64
< 1292816124 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right
< 1292816139 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well it hits 0 (mod 64) when the number becomes divisible by 2 six times, each doubling adds one
< 1292816206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :63 -> 62 -> 60 -> 56 -> 48 -> 32 -> 64 with all except the last step wrapping
< 1292816217 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: omghaahhahaohwow
< 1292816250 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right
< 1292816291 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's the most you can get, since the final step hitting 64 cannot wrap
< 1292816307 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292816318 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292816337 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the number of wraps is the same as the number of set bits minus 1, i think
< 1292816345 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1292816346 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1292816372 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i think so
< 1292816378 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229028183.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292816396 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ls ~/.minecraft/resources/streaming
< 1292816405 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, those are records
< 1292816415 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but we only have two records
< 1292816418 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet there are more .mus
< 1292816420 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1292816420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, c4183274982347whatever has mentioned it
< 1292816430 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so how can we get the other .ogg
< 1292816440 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that are missing
< 1292816446 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ls
< 1292816446 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11.mus  13.mus  13.ogg  blocks.mus  cat.mus  cat.ogg  chirp.mus  far.mus  mall.mus  mellohi.mus  stal.mus  strad.mus  ward.mus  where are we now.mus
< 1292816447 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean
< 1292816458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shrug
< 1292816461 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely we can extract the missing ones somehow
< 1292816475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.mus looks like Finale music score
< 1292816479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or
< 1292816483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"SCORE Music Publishing System"
< 1292816486 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they are "data" days file
< 1292816503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would guess Finale.
< 1292816503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Maybe.*
< 1292816509 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, don't think so
< 1292816521 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would he distribute that
< 1292816522 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292816532 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: BTW: Grains are quite nasty for digestive system. And the bad effects are not limited to digestive system, those can show up as who knows what problems in who knows where (joints, heart, brain, you name it...).
< 1292816534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shrug
< 1292816539 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, probably just metadata
< 1292816550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 elliott elliott 1.5M Nov 10 18:00 /home/elliott/.minecraft/resources/streaming/strad.mus
< 1292816552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: DOUBTFUL
< 1292816559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably some tracker thing
< 1292816559 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm
< 1292816560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe
< 1292816565 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah
< 1292816565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 elliott elliott 1.1M Nov 10 17:59 13.mus
< 1292816565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 elliott elliott 1.1M Nov 10 17:59 13.ogg
< 1292816568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 elliott elliott 1.3M Nov 10 17:59 cat.mus
< 1292816568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 elliott elliott 1.3M Nov 10 17:59 cat.ogg
< 1292816569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insert obvious theory
< 1292816581 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, xor?
< 1292816592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: maybe binary audio data but in another format. but sure, xor to see if you can get the ogg header
< 1292816603 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292816605 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, didn't you write a program for it?
< 1292816633 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, exactly as many bytes long
< 1292816647 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if different format I would expect it to differ a bit
< 1292816710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: a program for what?
< 1292816714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, i expect they're the same data
< 1292816729 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a program for xoring router firmware
< 1292816765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh. no, i stole one off the interwebs
< 1292816773 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1292816774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but uh, it's just putchar(getchar()^3590835904) :P
< 1292816778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy to do with even python
< 1292816781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since all you need to find is the ogg header
< 1292816831 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1292816835 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw http://www.minecraft.net/resources/
< 1292816880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292816888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if you can replace them easily? probably already done
< 1292816974 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway "meh" at trying to figure out scheme for "encryption"
< 1292816989 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, presumably decompiling is easier
< 1292816990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"meh" at iterating through 256 values, xoring a few bytes, and comparing them? srsly?
< 1292817001 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, meh at writing any code this time of the day
< 1292817034 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292817058 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d932925f.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292817121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, it's not a simple xor cipher.
< 1292817131 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh?
< 1292817149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tested all combos.
< 1292817152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'O,\x8d\xbf'
< 1292817157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be OggS.
< 1292817167 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1292817233 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to xor, xor not to xor, that is the question
< 1292817255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be iterative xor of some kind, whatever
< 1292817438 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1292817518 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229028183.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292817518 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes make a stupid mistake. I made a stupid mistake I accidentally typed q=malloc(strlen(s)+strlen(stack_ptr->text)); instead of q=malloc(strlen(s)+strlen(stack_ptr->text)+1); but I fixed it now. Now it can do things like this:
< 1292817524 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<[:]ra+s2s1[Al1rl2xY]xD>
< 1292817527 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<[:]ra+s2[;]ra+s10[ddl1xrl2x1+d256-0 1diQY]xD>
< 1292817592 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think I made some progress with this program now? (I added various other features too, including a few fixed and new data structures.)
< 1292817638 0 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-4db43366.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292817651 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It actually has some similarities to dc and Underload. Do you think it is?
< 1292817734 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292817837 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292817844 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any Underload program without S can be directly written in TeXnicard by converting one character to one character, in fact.
< 1292818023 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1292818036 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night →
< 1292818376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1292818401 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hay you! What time is it on the moon right now?
< 1292818449 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292818537 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that question doesn't have a definite answer
< 1292818612 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any more than "what time is it on earth now" does
< 1292818733 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I believe you.
< 1292818793 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229028183.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292818827 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although in addition, the day on the moon is a lot longer than on earth, about a month long
< 1292818844 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like my general plan of TeXnicard? (The plan is it makes .tex and .mf and so on from the .cards file, and then .dvi and .*gf, and then from those it creates MIFF and send the results to ImageMagick to process.)
< 1292818867 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which means, that to use TeXnicard, you also need TeX, METAFONT, and ImageMagick.)
< 1292818872 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the moon always has the same face towards the earth, and goes around in a (moon, not calendar) month
< 1292818878 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*around it
< 1292818954 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's still short compared to venus's day which is only a bit different from a venus _year_
< 1292818956 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, that is what a "month" is, isn't it?
< 1292818968 0 :Wamanuz4!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292819012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but the calendar months aren't exactly those months in our calendar, because they were stretched to get exactly 12 in a year
< 1292819012 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292819045 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike the islamic and jewish ones, afair
< 1292819050 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes. I know that.
< 1292819078 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably the chinese too iirc
< 1292819180 0 :Wamanuz3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1292819411 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will you be part of the TeXnicard contest?
< 1292819428 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.
< 1292819444 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you ever used Magic Set Editor?
< 1292819456 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.
< 1292819508 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any high resolution templates for Magic: the Gathering cards? I should need templates with a better quality than the ones Wizards of the Coast uses.
< 1292819576 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION leaves that question for anyone else who might play magic

< 1292819742 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-161-75.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292819880 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/19/wireless-carriers-openly-considering-charging-per-service/ FUCK YOU PHONE COMPANIES.
< 1292819883 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU.
< 1292819972 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, Magic: the Gathering might not be the first templates we make for TeXnicard. But it should be done eventually. However, none of these templates will be included with TeXnicard, you will have to download them separately, because they are not part of TeXnicard.
< 1292820023 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229028183.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1292821352 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1292822363 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229028183.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292822522 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292823395 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292823496 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1292823503 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229028183.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292823591 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-179-113.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292823628 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1292825956 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292826004 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm addicted to blockexplorer.com
< 1292826031 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitcoin is dumb
< 1292826042 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too scarce
< 1292826292 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, quick random questoin
< 1292826304 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does ESR associate you with Discordianism here: http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=2491
< 1292826519 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you be interested in a program converting MSE set symbol files into TeXnicard format?
< 1292826693 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really
< 1292826705 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't touched MSE code at all in a while
< 1292826719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Oh, right, you're making something much less revolting than MSE!
< 1292826720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292826744 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This would probably be done by writing METAFONT macros for the various symbol combines, symmetry, and so on, in .mse-symbol files.
< 1292826760 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Are you interested in MSE and/or TeXnicard?
< 1292826801 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm a bit interested in TeXnicard, because my experience using MSE in the past has been rather painful.
< 1292826831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially the Linux port.
< 1292826837 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, coppro, but ow.
< 1292826890 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OK. Do you have any suggestions/comments for TeXnicard? I might consider them. (I also found MSE a bit painful, which is one of the reasons I am writing TeXnicard. In addition, it should run the same on Linux as Windows, no need to make separate ports.)
< 1292826923 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229028183.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292826933 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Currently, no real comments, except "Ooooh, good typesetting".
< 1292826949 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Oh, well. It would be nice if it were easier to create new templates for cards.
< 1292826968 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MSE's whole spriting approach is a bit obtuse.
< 1292826986 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, yes, it will use TeX for typesetting the cards (and ImageMagick for rendering them).
< 1292827024 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, it would be nice for a better way to create new templates. What would be good is some GUI program that allows placing the fields.
< 1292827036 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm.
< 1292827074 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no offense taken
< 1292827083 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux port is a rickety thing at bets
< 1292827084 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After writing the main TeXnicard program, I might write some additional utilities, which can be used for such things as these.
< 1292827084 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*best
< 1292827089 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is kind of why I gave up
< 1292827107 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292827112 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I know I spent a full freaking day patching it to *build*.
< 1292827116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not *work*, just *build*.
< 1292827144 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably have better luck going through winelib.
< 1292827245 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, then good thing that TeXnicard probably will not require any such things as that. If it does require a few patches though, they should be very few, and can be made in a .ch file.
< 1292827290 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: really? yuk
< 1292827298 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can at least get it to build
< 1292827309 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then again, autoconf is happy with my system
< 1292827316 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is itself a miracle)
< 1292827328 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: What things don't work with MSE in Linux?
< 1292827335 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh, lots of things
< 1292827348 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there's one menu that crashes it about 50 % of the time
< 1292827357 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like my arch-nemesis
< 1292827364 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some bug deep in wx it's triggering I think
< 1292827384 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I was using Gentoo at the time.
< 1292827392 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: And Gentoo tends to expose a *lot* of build system bugs.
< 1292827399 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some random arbitrary input restriction that the debug build doesn't check for and is inconsistent across platforms
< 1292827408 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wxWidgets absolutely loves those
< 1292827434 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wxWidgets is a piece of shit
< 1292827500 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, obviously I am not using wxWidgets for TeXnicard. (Any utility programs that go with it probably won't use wxWidgets either.)
< 1292827509 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I would hope
< 1292827519 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would not wish wxWidgets upon anyone
< 1292827531 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cross-platform UI is basically agony.
< 1292827560 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qt is probably the best. wxWidgets... Works sometimes.
< 1292827583 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GTK is, of course, not native anywhere but X.
< 1292827753 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1292827758 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Qt has its own pains
< 1292827770 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it does.
< 1292827803 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I will figure out what GUI toolkit (if any) to use, when it is time to write the utility programs.
< 1292827920 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What pains does Qt have?
< 1292827939 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows and OS X.
< 1292827958 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also build steps
< 1292827981 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :build systems suck enough already that you don't need MOC to screw things up more
< 1292828053 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any advice for me to make TeXnicard, in terms of: random number generators, sorting and grouping, pattern matching, word form adjustment (such as plurals and number to words), ?
< 1292828093 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229028183.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292828127 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RNG: don't write it yourself, pick a solid algorithm
< 1292828144 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorting: don't write it yourself, pick a solid algorithm
< 1292828144 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292828155 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pattern matching: don't write it yourself, use ML
< 1292828175 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: TeX.
< 1292828181 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: He's writing it himself.
< 1292828182 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1292828211 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: OK, then what solid algorithms should be used?
< 1292828250 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For sorting, C does have a qsort command for sorting, which could be used for a part of it, maybe)
< 1292828261 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what is ML?
< 1292828422 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I know :P
< 1292828428 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl
< 1292828447 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i think that ML part was a joke
< 1292828453 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4ed50.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292828492 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK.
< 1292828507 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what algorithm to use for random numbers, which is suitable for this program?
< 1292828604 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And again, what would be best for matching patterns and keywords?
< 1292828642 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although of course ML _is_ good for writing languages in
< 1292828854 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
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< 1292831999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
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< 1292832070 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
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< 1292832578 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229028183.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1292834976 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292835699 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Included in the release today is leaf decay, working server-side inventory, throwable eggs, and less system hungry servers."
< 1292835708 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I give that thing rather good odds of breaking mcmap.
< 1292835865 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT CAN YOU MAKE OMELETTES?
< 1292835983 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229028183.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292836138 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if you craft a bucket of lava, an iron ingot and an egg together.
< 1292836143 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1292839235 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1292839253 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
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< 1292840465 0 :atrapado!~rodrigo@193.144.79.241 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1292846638 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292846725 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292846738 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292847407 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230228047.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292847538 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292847591 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292847838 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292847938 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292848240 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1292848343 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-175-161.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292848577 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230228047.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292848849 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292849017 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, elliott: "Just asking, have you forgot about the drop + pickup = intact item bug?" → "no, that's fixed as part of the server-side inventory". No more infinitely durable diamond pickaxes.
< 1292849038 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292849138 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292849229 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And a rather weird comment about "'Collaborating' in chests will be way more fun when you can see each others mouse pointers".)
< 1292849282 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ouch, when will it be released
< 1292849306 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today.
< 1292849311 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At some unspecified time.
< 1292849337 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might also very easily fix the item-placement thing, but that's probably just a good thing.
< 1292849565 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what item-placement thing?
< 1292849574 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, you weren't around.
< 1292849597 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I built Deewiant's tree by forcibly placing leaves, yet another instance of server not verifying client-sent values.
< 1292849614 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the same thing could obviously be used to place an infinite amount of any block type at all.
< 1292849633 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except possibly bedrock, there is supposedly a special check against that.)
< 1292849705 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh
< 1292849837 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230228047.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292849918 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292850056 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292850331 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anything mentioned about torches btw?
< 1292850373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in the twitter. "Included in the release today is leaf decay, working server-side inventory, throwable eggs, and less system hungry servers."
< 1292850382 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or did I paste that already?
< 1292850386 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I did.
< 1292850402 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the official server-mod support "early next year".
< 1292850477 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1292850496 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, time to switch to alternative auth system then
< 1292850514 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and log in early
< 1292850784 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292851005 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230228047.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292851307 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292851642 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: omghaahhahaohwow
< 1292851657 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292852122 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292852250 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230228047.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292852585 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292852657 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1292853031 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: omghaahhahaohwow
< 1292853350 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292853483 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-175-161.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292853495 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230228047.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292853504 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1292853707 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292853905 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292854082 0 :tswett!~Warrigal@eos01.cis.gvsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292854695 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230228047.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292854933 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292855873 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1292857479 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you know those mobile core 2 duo's that make a high pitched noise when they wake up from C4? I can't run mcmap on that laptop due to the noise, it wakes up a lot (even discounting network traffic).
< 1292857519 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... Reminds me of my other computer that makes noise with high network traffic.
< 1292857553 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, well, it doesn't so much here, anyway I tried with a local server and local client on the same computer... and traffic over lo never made noise before
< 1292857578 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just client + server does not cause the noise
< 1292857590 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : so something like... 1200  wakeups / second according to powertop
< 1292857601 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of that will be network, but it seems far from all
< 1292857606 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My other box makes a very annoying whine whenever the display card needs to draw anything 3D.
< 1292857635 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292857659 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway, any idea about those extra wakeups?
< 1292857729 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not immediately, no. It shouldn't be busy-polling anything when nothing happens, and there aren't any high-frequency timers. (But it's maybe not very performance-optimized in general.)
< 1292857745 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... 10.3 pinging 10.1, ping times are ~23.4ms. 10.1 pinging 10.3, ping times are ~1.55ms...
< 1292857745 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ḧm okay
< 1292857770 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, asymmetric paths do exist
< 1292857777 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(might not be the case here)
< 1292857798 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The paths are symmetric (only one exists).
< 1292857814 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, could be slow firewall on one side maybe?
< 1292857828 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-12-13.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292857851 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, one computer (10.1) is much slower than the other, but that doesn't explain why ping times just worsen and worsen...
< 1292857880 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first ping time has increased by almost 50-fold from what it was inititally...
< 1292857890 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, check load?
< 1292857907 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if one is swap trashing...
< 1292857937 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, also 10.1, is that a 16-bit IP? XD
< 1292857958 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Load average: 0.00
< 1292857968 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1292857981 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what does (h)top say?
< 1292858033 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About what? That load average was from top...
< 1292858035 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway the system in question seems to jump between C4 mwait (90.7%) and C0 (5.5%) with the rest accounted by in C2 mwait
< 1292858041 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, well, memory usage
< 1292858067 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, just standing still in MC
< 1292858081 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292858085 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some bad scheduling from the linux kernel there I suspect
< 1292858103 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Over half of memory free or discarable.
< 1292858111 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*discarable
< 1292858120 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swap use less than 1MB.
< 1292858125 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, how very strange, has it worked well before?
< 1292858185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:30:11  Will you be part of the TeXnicard contest?
< 1292858185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:30:28  no.
< 1292858185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:30:44  Have you ever used Magic Set Editor?
< 1292858185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:30:56  no.
< 1292858185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:31:48  Do you have any high resolution templates for Magic: the Gathering cards? I should need templates with a better quality than the ones Wizards of the Coast uses.
< 1292858191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Funny you should mention it, why yes I do!
< 1292858198 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1292858202 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, oh wait, is any of the firewalls rate limiting or such?
< 1292858203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: Last line never happened.
< 1292858209 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, aww
< 1292858213 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pinging IPv6 link-local address of the same box is fast (~0.5ms).
< 1292858219 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1292858227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:20:31  bitcoin is dumb
< 1292858227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:20:42  it's too scarce
< 1292858229 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, .... what
< 1292858230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: divisible to 8 decimal places
< 1292858233 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, that's just absurd
< 1292858234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:24:52  ais523: hey, quick random questoin
< 1292858234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:25:04  why does ESR associate you with Discordianism here: http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=2491
< 1292858238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: because esr is a fuckfaced moron?
< 1292858238 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, ARP issues?
< 1292858249 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though arp *should* cache
< 1292858276 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both have correct-looking ARP tables.
< 1292858286 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and routing tables?
< 1292858299 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, is it just a switch in between or is the setup more complex?
< 1292858314 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seem sane. And yes, only one switch.
< 1292858327 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there was that one network card that notified every n bytes, not every packet
< 1292858337 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it that rt8192 one?
< 1292858398 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "... I discovered that INTERCAL had nucleated an entire weird little subculture of esoteric-language designers around itself, among whom I had come to be regarded as sort of a patriarch in absentia ..." (esr); did you know that's how you regard him?
< 1292858399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you just told zzo not to write something himself, /thrice/
< 1292858410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, I did, thanks to ais523 quoting it.
< 1292858426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Funny, 'cuz we all seem to be pretty quiet about our esr worship.
< 1292858443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OH, does he mean how when we came in here every day we said "Praise be to esr, giver upon to us of C-INTERCAL's glory?"
< 1292858446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. Yeah, I remember taht.
< 1292858448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that
< 1292858462 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, except you linking to a webcomic named after him all the time!
< 1292858469 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note, hyperbole)
< 1292858471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, no, it's Eric Raymond, not Eric S. Raymond.
< 1292858478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally different guy that looks and behaves identically.
< 1292858483 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1292858501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: BTW -- proper readline erasing -- that escape sequence doesn't really work, because readline actually uses multiple physical-terminal-lines (they're physical, you can touch them and they're fuzzy!)
< 1292858503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I just got up!
< 1292858532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: And telling readline "undisplay everything, dammit" is difficult because, well, it's not really designed for multithreaded use -- and how can you call rl_shoo_you_bastard() when readline() is blocking?
< 1292858535 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that every n bytes wouldn't explain why it was initially fast... Also, the other direction also slows down, but much slower (factor of about 3 currently)
< 1292858592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So there isn't really a function for that. There *are* some functions to save and restore internal state, but if I save state, replace the line with "" to get it to be one line, redraw, erase the line, print out whatever, restore the state, and tell it to redraw, it gives me a blank line I can't type into; enter works to send nothingness, ^A^K does nothing but lets me type, and I think ^A might actually work like that -- I suspect it is s
< 1292858592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omehow saving the mark and point and whatnot but not the text.
< 1292858614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Perhaps the text-replacing function actually writes to the pointer; I looked at readline's source and it just did "sp->line = readline_line", except with more words there.
< 1292858673 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You could make all output go through the readline'ing thread; have it select() (or alike) on both a pipe (of output, from other threads) and stdin, and call that readline callback interface when stdin has data. Though that would only help for the blocking part, not how to properly interlace input and output.
< 1292858681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:01:39  "Included in the release today is leaf decay, working server-side inventory, throwable eggs, and less system hungry servers."
< 1292858681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:01:48  I give that thing rather good odds of breaking mcmap.
< 1292858697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, look at that, I can forget mcmap ever existed for a while!
< 1292858710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: You could make all output go through the readline'ing thread; have it select() (or alike) on both a pipe (of output, from other threads) and stdin, and call that readline callback interface when stdin has data. Though that would only help for the blocking part, not how to properly interlace input and output.
< 1292858722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The blocking part ain't no problem; log_print() is called from elsewhere. I was talking as
< 1292858730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Mr. Readline Architect, circa 1995, not realising multithreading exists:
< 1292858744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But why do you need rl_go_away()? You can't call it while readline() is blocking, so it would never do anything!"
< 1292858752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: The blocking part ain't no problem; log_print() is called from elsewhere. I was talking as
< 1292858752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: Mr. Readline Architect, circa 1995, not realising multithreading exists:
< 1292858753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great.
< 1292858758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've started splitting my IRC lines Minecraft-style.
< 1292858769 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, elsewhere, must get home.
< 1292858811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:07:57  hm
< 1292858811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:08:16  fizzie, time to switch to alternative auth system then
< 1292858811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:08:34  and log in early
< 1292858821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Or just get an hMod plugin that makes all items durable.
< 1292858873 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that works too
< 1292858894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So, uh, we should duplicate every block. Now.
< 1292858920 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I guess that slowdown might be is that continuous pinging pollutes some connection tracking tables and the system then has to search for the active entry...
< 1292859073 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292859139 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, hm but ICMP? connection tracking?
< 1292859144 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe
< 1292859160 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, anyway, do you do something strange with contrack and icmp?
< 1292859244 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually there goes that theory... 10.1 has no firewall rules.
< 1292859259 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, kernel bug or shoddy hardware?
< 1292859279 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both 10.1 and 10.3 run the same kernel version (but diffrent archs).
< 1292859280 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and does it reach a cap in ping time? Or does it keep getting worse still?
< 1292859294 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it goes worse and worse...
< 1292859308 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is fairly slow process...
< 1292859318 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what does rebooting do to it?
< 1292859335 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These systems are not to be rebooted.
< 1292859341 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292859348 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food is ready
< 1292859381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you're as clever as someone else!
< 1292859382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/ejf1t/on_the_search_for_mathematical_truth_and/c18jhx0
< 1292859386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Dual numbers is actually the same idea as in the Dif numbers, but the Dif implementation has a lazy infinite tower of derivatives.
< 1292859386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you can do symbolic derivation with Dif if you want to"
< 1292859412 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey elliott I want to program this in haskell http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse_limit
< 1292859445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: are you sure that's even possible? :)
< 1292859463 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I asked that question in #haskell and someone just said "try it"
< 1292859470 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't konw
< 1292859477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Dif type is the type of differentiable numbers. It's an instance of all the usual numeric classes. The computed derivative of a function is is correct except where the function is discontinuous, at these points the derivative should be a Dirac pulse, but it isn't."
< 1292859484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i think that's code for "oh man that looks hard" :)
< 1292859494 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: stop making me disconnect from Sine.  :P
< 1292859522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best way to stop disconnecting from Sine is to stop connecting to Sine.
< 1292859550 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree.
< 1292859607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    abs p@(D x x')           =  D (abs x) (signum p * x')
< 1292859610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why didn't i think of that
< 1292859619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my code is way longer
< 1292859710 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... Floodpinging 10.1 does loads of packet loss (I got 85% packet loss) if done in longer bursts...
< 1292859845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey this is great
< 1292859852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has all the Floating algorithms! :)
< 1292859904 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292859972 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, huh. check dmesg
< 1292859979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant:
< 1292859980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    sin              = lift (cycle [sin, cos, negate . sin, negate . cos])
< 1292859980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    cos              = lift (cycle [cos, negate . sin, negate . cos, sin])
< 1292859984 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, for any strange non-iptables limiting that may happen
< 1292859993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lift :: (Num a) => [a -> a] -> Dif a -> Dif a
< 1292859993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lift (f : _) (C x) = C (f x)
< 1292859993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lift (f : f') p@(D x x') = D (f x) (x' * lift f' p)
< 1292859993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lift _ _ = error "lift"
< 1292860006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: best way to implement sin/cos ever
< 1292860089 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that last line looks weird
< 1292860106 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing strange in dmesg...
< 1292860116 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that was to elliott, the last line I said)
< 1292860121 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you it like  sin' = cos ; cos' = -sin ? and get the 4-cycle for free
< 1292860122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: why?
< 1292860130 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what does D denote?
< 1292860132 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it can differentiate compositions
< 1292860138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: dual numbers
< 1292860146 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm... oh wait misread the type signature. Now it makes more sense.
< 1292860146 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.  Neat.
< 1292860146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, infinitely-stacked dual numbers
< 1292860149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: hm possibly
< 1292860153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: wouldn't you have to integrate though?
< 1292860170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to take advantage of that
< 1292860350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take 42 . show $ sin d
< 1292860350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"0.0 + 1.0 + -0.0 + -1.0 + 0.0 + 1.0 + -0.0"
< 1292860361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol @ -0.0
< 1292860470 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having -0 is handy in some numerical calculations.
< 1292860498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1292860501 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in case 0 is some kind of branch split for some function).
< 1292860590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> deriv 1 tan (1.1*pi)
< 1292860590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.1055728090000843
< 1292860593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yay
< 1292860665 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Database of fixed SSL _private_ keys... Why do people use non-PFS ciphers?
< 1292860803 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292860837 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, if ciphersuite is not PFS, you can passively capture session and later decrypt it using server private key. That does not work with PFS ciphersuites...
< 1292860885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha
< 1292860946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: :( second derivative of tan is 0 here
< 1292860951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait no
< 1292860958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just "deriv 2 tan" doesn't work
< 1292861054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nderiv 0 f = f
< 1292861054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nderiv n f = deriv (nderiv (n-1) f)
< 1292861056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does not work :(
< 1292861169 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had a go at inverse limit but it didn't work
< 1292861260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION 's brain asks him what it would be like if there was a third type-of-types among Set and Prop called Coset which was defined as a codata, thus allowing infinite types... ow, that hurts

< 1292861303 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X = X -> X?
< 1292861326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that isn't allowed by the codata rules is it?
< 1292861328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only X = blah -> X
< 1292861338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you couldn't do that unless (->) was in Coset
< 1292861345 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right I se
< 1292861352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. if you have Setprop which is a supertype of Set and Prop and then Coset, and both of those are in Type
< 1292861356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then (->) could be on Setprop
< 1292861359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you couldn't have a function like that
< 1292861364 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Set could be a subset of Coset, and (->) : Set -> Coset -> Coset
< 1292861390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that, yep
< 1292861403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: but there's curry's paradox there isn't there?
< 1292861415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no
< 1292861420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curry's paradox is only for X->X
< 1292861424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which we couldn't construct
< 1292861425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm interesting
< 1292861450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: we can construct a proposition, then, that an infinite number of things imply that ...[hang]
< 1292861453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful!
< 1292861484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i wonder how you'd define coset concretely
< 1292861634 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus if you have infinite types you would probably need infinite terms... and they can hold an infinite amount of information
< 1292861719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: well no, i mean, you can already have infinite terms with codata
< 1292861738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so sets : cosets :: terms : codata terms
< 1292861744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no?
< 1292861800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I seem to have broken your code somewhere along the line.
< 1292862014 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheCatsters#p/c/E337D7DEA972E632/10/SpCyaNi257w
< 1292862034 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these cone things are neat, no clue if they can be computed though
< 1292862131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: so little is computable :(
< 1292862213 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, down?
< 1292862247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Seemingly.
< 1292862251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I like how snow is just some elevated floor.
< 1292862254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, the bit marked SNOW.
< 1292862280 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah
< 1292862285 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, added for completeness
< 1292863150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently Notch can't rename Minecraft accounts.
< 1292863154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Question: Why.
< 1292863170 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad database design?
< 1292863177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: http://minecraft.net/haspaid.jsp
< 1292863180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Obviously.
< 1292863183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notch is a terrible coder.
< 1292863221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: [[@jeb_ @mattmagician points out that minecraft.net/minecraft-server.zip is missing! Could you check if it's in the SECRET_ROLLBACK folder?]]
< 1292863229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SECRET_ROLLBACK.
< 1292863251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh man, I've figured out why updates are always so buggy.
< 1292863255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: [[The first stage of inventory prediction works fine now.. Now to test rollbacks and errors..]] -- six hours ago.
< 1292863264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: This man implements, tests and releases things in the space of *hours*.
< 1292863267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Tests".
< 1292863289 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The floor is snow, so of course snow is just elevated floor. ;-P
< 1292863299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Indeed. Can I blow up the TNT?
< 1292863302 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1292863307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Can I blow up the TNT, please?
< 1292863310 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1292863313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Can I blow up the TNT, pretty please?
< 1292863315 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1292863325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm going to blow up the TNT and you have to strangle me in the next 24 hours to stop me.
< 1292863333 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1292863368 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What TNT?
< 1292863385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: In Minecraft. :p
< 1292863402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What if I lined the TNT's cage with obsidian?
< 1292863406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then blew it up?
< 1292863418 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you just want to blow up any TNT, that can be arranged.
< 1292863426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, no, it has to be this TNT.
< 1292863439 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You should ask ineiros for a bedrock walls for the TNT room. :p
< 1292863459 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lining it with obsidian would break the layout of the place and can't be done trivially.
< 1292863464 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, nope.
< 1292863465 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does TNT look like? I hope that game does not mix up dynamite and TNT. :-)
< 1292863477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: It does.
< 1292863495 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in Painterly (at least with my options) TNT actually is "creeper bombs".
< 1292863504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make it dynamite too.
< 1292863509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: If you don't let me blow up the TNT, I'll cry.
< 1292863517 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then do.
< 1292863522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Waah.
< 1292863523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Waah.
< 1292863524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Waah.
< 1292863524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Waah.
< 1292863548 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In dynamite, the actual explosive substance is nitroglycerine. TNT is trinitrotolunene, which is itself explosive...
< 1292863576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Yes, but this way I get to blow up Deewiant's room of TNT, which is way more fun.
< 1292863614 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe there's been a miscommunication: no, you don't get to.
< 1292863632 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much TNT is there anyway?
< 1292863738 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001f5b00390f-CM001e6b2335dc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292863812 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't it 22 blocks in each room?
< 1292863839 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, 22 blocks of the item type that's being presented in the particular room; not 22 blocks of TNT in each room.
< 1292863845 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, with a few exceptions (chest, sand, gravel)
< 1292863933 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much 22 blocks of TNT would be?
< 1292863991 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One block is supposedly 1 m^3
< 1292864181 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1m^3 of TNT would be 1654kg, so about 36.4 metric tons... That would give quite an explosion...
< 1292864452 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, down?
< 1292864464 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292864479 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1292864678 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292866251 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since a block is a cubic meter, I guess the characters are pretty short.
< 1292866272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: We're 1.7 blocks tall.
< 1292866360 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're short.
< 1292866363 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292866606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Not so short as I.
< 1292866667 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh yeah that's short
< 1292866674 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.9 is more reasonable
< 1292866684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was that.
< 1292866694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god, upgrade.
< 1292866697 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to tswett
< 1292866761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO WHAT ABOUT THESE OPTIONAL UPDATES EH
< 1292866796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Made SMP servers save chunks way less often in most cases. Chunks don’t resave if they got saved in the last 30 seconds
< 1292866799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the hell did they do before.
< 1292866812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Moving too far away from a container, or having it blow up, closes the inventory screen
< 1292866812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Fixed /kill
< 1292866812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Introduced leaf decay again. It acts differently from before
< 1292866813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) LAME
< 1292866814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2) LAME
< 1292866816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(3) Yay
< 1292866822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* On a whim, added super exclusive clan cloaks for Mojang Employees
< 1292866822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1292866860 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has coffee

< 1292866869 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kannhąi!
< 1292866878 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, coffee is the drink of the DEVIL!
< 1292866910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Then PRAISE BE UNTO THAT DARK LORD!
< 1292866954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Man, as an Englishman, I have to say that coffee is a pretty good idea.
< 1292867007 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, stupid you restarting the client
< 1292867014 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if you just reconnected it worked
< 1292867041 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Just because you like tea doesn't forbid you from liking coffee.
< 1292867051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You realise I could always just use my backup?
< 1292867056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: MIX THEM TOGETHER
< 1292867064 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, except you couldn't log in then?
< 1292867074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *shrug*
< 1292867080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm not about to never upgrade again.
< 1292867087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway --
< 1292867098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoover Heavy Industries' tactical and strategic test is complete.
< 1292867102 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not actually that good, sadly.
< 1292867115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a resounding success, and our skill and quality on the defence and offence fronts is vastly improved.
< 1292867131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our clients will begin to see the higher-quality service in our work immediately.
< 1292867142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is all.
< 1292867166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait.
< 1292867168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Those of you coming in late may not be aware that (1) INTERCAL is the longest-running and most convoluted joke in the history of programming language design, and (2) all modern implementations of this twisted, sanity-sucking horror are descended from one that I tossed off as a weekend hack in 1990 here in the town of Malvern Pennsylvania (the manual describing the language goes back to 1972 but before my C-INTERCAL there hadn’t been a running
< 1292867168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : implementation available in about a decade).]]
< 1292867170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's /not even false/
< 1292867173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLC-INTERCAL
< 1292867176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell, even J-INTERCAL
< 1292867186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not even true
< 1292867189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not even false, it's way beyond false
< 1292867198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's simply _wrong_
< 1292867227 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that at the time he wrote that it may have been true.
< 1292867239 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure why, though. That fucker says stupid shit sometimes.
< 1292867254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That was written /this year/.
< 1292867261 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm*
< 1292867267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Praising himself for, uh, getting ais to track down all the old C-INTERCAL revisions.
< 1292867283 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is such an egotist asshat.
< 1292867283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "whilst I was off doing the Mr. Famous Guy thing on behalf of open source) I discovered that INTERCAL had nucleated an entire weird little subculture of esoteric-language designers around itself, among whom I had come to be regarded as sort of a patriarch in absentia…."
< 1292867303 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Patriarch? We call him an egotist asshat!
< 1292867322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :~THE INTERCAL-BASED SUBCULTURE OF ESOTERIC-LANGUAGE DESIGNERS~ ~GREETINGS TO OUR PATRIARCH IN ABSENTIA, ERIC S. "GIGANTIC PENIS" RAYMOND~ ~PREVIOUS ESR WORSHIPS AVAILABLE AT http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D~
< 1292867342 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LMAO
< 1292867389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to start referring to ais as "ais523, hail Eris, all hail Discordia!, a doughty Englishman", like esr did in that post.
< 1292867391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=2491)
< 1292867414 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does ais523 have anything to do with Discordianism?
< 1292867416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1292867420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Nope. Not that I know of at least.
< 1292867428 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aside from having said "Hail Eris!" once or twice.
< 1292867435 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is he a doughty fellow?
< 1292867445 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: That's quite subjective.
< 1292867455 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is most certainly an Englishman, though.
< 1292867531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Relevant: http://abstrusegoose.com/329
< 1292867534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: (To you, that is.)
< 1292867539 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we troll him?
< 1292867577 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least point out that we hold him in an amused sort of contempt?
< 1292867613 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt he'd listen.
< 1292867617 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He makes RMS seem humble.
< 1292867814 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, which of you guys invented the Internet?  Was it you, elliott?
< 1292867821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1292867831 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I took the initiative of creating the internet
< 1292867844 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool.  Good work on that.
< 1292867849 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I willo-on-haven created the first IMP.
< 1292867859 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both of you, its creator and its taker-of-initiative-of-creating.
< 1292867867 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though before that, I willo-on-haven changed my name and time traveled.
< 1292867915 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that infix "on" pronounced the same way as the preposition "on", or is it pronounced /ʌn/ or something?
< 1292867919 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/Phoc96v1.jpg
< 1292867963 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know you have gotten too much milk fat when: Your trousers no longer fit because they are too big... :-)
< 1292867982 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I dunno, it's a somewhat obscure H2G2 reference.
< 1292868096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not that obscure.
< 1292868129 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Really obscure would involve Lintilla, yeah.
< 1292868138 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(how many people have actually listened to the radio series, anyways?)
< 1292868164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. And a half.
< 1292868480 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services
< 1292868496 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292868534 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314
< 1292869318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'm going to capture conor mcbride
< 1292869322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and force him to complete epirgam
< 1292869323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*epigram
< 1292869364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/ad ;; automatic differentiation like 10x as polished as mine
< 1292869563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: upgrade plz
< 1292869592 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll downgrade instead!
< 1292869612 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is hMod updated as well?
< 1292869744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: Hey, it might "just work". MIGHT
< 1292869756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: hmm
< 1292869815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: well, if you installed some plugin to stop trying to authenticate with minecraft.net
< 1292869834 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, what to do with this router?
< 1292869836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: then we could just fail to login and keep an older version
< 1292869856 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu
< 1292869873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: http://wiki.nexua.org/Plugin:AuthCraft
< 1292869874 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nah, I'm not doing that.
< 1292869878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: AuthCraft is a replacement for MineSecurity since MineSecurity is no longer supported and has inventory bugs. AuthCraft serves one main purpose in two different ways, it allows server-side authentication by making the user create a password upon logging into the server. This is helpful when the MineCraft authentication servers are down, or if you are hosting your own MineCraft server that does not require Minecraft authentication - also
< 1292869878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :known as offline mode.
< 1292869880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: Aww. Why not?
< 1292869892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would last until hMod is updated
< 1292869894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*updated.
< 1292869899 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, it does in fact support OpenWRT.
< 1292869906 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hMod's usually been pretty fast.
< 1292869915 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ideas?
< 1292869932 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, why would you play before the all-important mcmap's fixed either? (Admittedly I've gotten two of the new packets handled already.)
< 1292870043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ineiros just secretly hates oklopol for not having bought the game yet and wants to make sure he never gets in.
< 1292870046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Tis the only explanation.
< 1292870109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros's silence is like unto admitment.
< 1292870343 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I could just use it as a really overblown switch...
< 1292870796 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, dur. VLANs. Hooray, having some utility.
< 1292871071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: I am going to CONTINUALLY CONNECT TO THE SERVER.
< 1292871225 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MOP
< 1292871291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if my https://github.com/fis/mcmap/commit/3a1eae914d55b525004b08225c31e1d3623dd4eb commit message couldn't have been a little harsher on the GPL.
< 1292871359 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1292871969 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minor patch 1.0_01 is up
< 1292872078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Ain't it grand?
< 1292872101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Notch's schedule: Two hours of coding, ten minutes of testing, five minutes of uploading; then ten hours of minor fix updates.
< 1292872102 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really
< 1292872106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's AGILE!
< 1292872130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I’ve also heard about weird item duplication bugs with dropped items" OHOHOHOHOHOHOHO
< 1292872134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and a severe performance reduction." >_<
< 1292872175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My GOD he's not joking.d
< 1292872180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Is it incredibly slow for you too?
< 1292872185 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't updated
< 1292872225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Not even to beta? Heh.
< 1292872232 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I've just stayed connected
< 1292872278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Items have tooltips now
< 1292872285 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You have not been in Mount Hoover, have you?
< 1292872289 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292872304 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in it, no
< 1292872313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And you?
< 1292872381 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :This topic message does not have Theorem-nature. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1292872489 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no
< 1292872653 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what was the rarer thing he mentioned in the blog post
< 1292872656 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone found out?
< 1292872670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Dunno.
< 1292872827 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292872907 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1292873010 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292873233 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to make a ROM from NAND-gates, what is the minimum number of NAND gates you will need?
< 1292873325 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: do you mean, given n bits of static information: How many NAND gates are needed to give a function 2^(log n) -> 2 that addresses the information?
< 1292873377 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 = {0,1}
< 1292873435 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Actually I mean something a bit different. I mean that if you have a certain number of bits of address, a certain number of bits of data, and a certain file which must be encoded into ROM.
< 1292873475 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is roughly what I said but with the same n bits but to construct the function 2^k -> 2^l instead?
< 1292873505 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And there is the possibility that some parts of the data are unimportant, so it doesn't matter what will be read out when accessing that data.)
< 1292873548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that possibility seems to cloud the issue to me ...
< 1292873550 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Yes, more like that.
< 1292873553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i declare all parts of the data unimportant
< 1292873556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tada! i can do it with 0 anythings
< 1292873628 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could find a lower bound with some work in terms of information complexity, and an upper bound by construcing the ROM function
< 1292873638 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But some of it is definitely going to be important. Like, maybe you have 1024 bytes of ROM, but only 1000 bytes used.
< 1292873648 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That means there is 24 unimportant bytes)
< 1292873652 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think theyll be quite far apart though, because it's a difficult problem
< 1292873761 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition, there is one more thing, which is the total delay caused by the NAND gates.
< 1292874226 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there is a good way to optimize NAND circuits? good enough that a reasonable solution would be to generate the stupidest possible ROM function then just optimize it to get one with low number of gates/
< 1292874348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If one hears a sort of whooshing, ominous sound like "whrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrkowww" in the background when underground in survival single player on peaceful mode WHAT DOES IT MEAN
< 1292874364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I thought it was the Nether sound but no, it was like something... I don't know, arriving from another dimension. :p
< 1292874496 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mob spawning from mob spawner?
< 1292874519 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001f5b00390f-CM001e6b2335dc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292874527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: But it's on peaceful.
< 1292874590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Got a video of the mob spawner noise?
< 1292874642 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, huh
< 1292874655 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@75-174-216-120.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292874662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It was sort of like the noise a train going past really close would make ... except without any train noises, and quiet.
< 1292874672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the sound of wind going past, except no whistling, and made "gravelley".
< 1292874676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*"gravelly".
< 1292874694 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh, gravy!
< 1292874701 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no idea)
< 1292874767 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mobs still spawn from mob spawners on SSP/
< 1292874774 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even on peaceful.
< 1292874779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just checked; yes, that was the sound.
< 1292874783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: What, creepers etc.?
< 1292874785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just sheep?
< 1292874795 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, whatever mob it makes.
< 1292874809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: OK, so by "peaceful", it means "PEACEFUL UNTIL YOU HEAR THAT FUCKING SOUND"?
< 1292874822 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yep!
< 1292874839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: The way you're talking implies to me that you found this out in the way known as "the hard way".
< 1292874841 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it mean you cannot hurt each other, and it blocks your movement?
< 1292874845 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, avoiding dungeons is a) trivial and b) creeper free IIRC.
< 1292874845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[In Peaceful difficulty, Monster Spawner blocks will still appear, but any spawned mobs will disappear the instant they spawn. This makes it easy to make the aforementioned trap without any trouble.]]
< 1292874850 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, Vorpal told me.
< 1292874851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Me thinks you are wrong.
< 1292874854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[In Peaceful difficulty, Monster Spawner blocks will still appear, but any spawned mobs will disappear the instant they spawn. This makes it easy to make the aforementioned trap without any trouble.]]
< 1292874857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Vorpal is usually wrong.
< 1292874873 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I assume you'd still get the noise from it.
< 1292874878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1292874878 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1292874888 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, of course mob spawners do what elliott said
< 1292874888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the mean time I shall play on mute.
< 1292874925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm scared though.
< 1292874936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Avoiding dungeons is not easy when you're building a staircase mine.
< 1292874957 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "if you see cobble, act appropriately".
< 1292874992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Except I /don't/ see cobble, but now every stair down I make I'm going to be scared shitless. :p
< 1292875019 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if it comforts you, I can hear spiders next to me in my mine constantly.
< 1292875045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: On /Peaceful/?
< 1292875067 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, on Normal.
< 1292875080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAVE FUN WITH THAT
< 1292875123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: All I want is some damn iron.
< 1292875292 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292875314 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292875375 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292875415 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: We won't give you any iron!!
< 1292875613 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292875917 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, pushed mcmap update to the beta protocol.
< 1292875949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is like a magic.
< 1292875965 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been tested in the Notchy fashion, i.e. not much. I managed to open the inventory, move an arrow from one slot to another, and it didn't yet crash; I could also take a step or two.
< 1292875988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can you make that DATA %s print [DATA] %s and the packet print [PACK] or something? Wait, wait, never mind, I *refuse* to argue about the formatting of debug prints.
< 1292876014 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll fix that the next time I have to enable those.
< 1292876031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+    log_print("IMMINENT CRASH, reading tail for log");
< 1292876032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So kind.
< 1292876038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIEF.
< 1292876047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :error: Your local changes to 'main.c' would be overwritten by merge.  Aborting.
< 1292876051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Methinks I'll abandon those changes.
< 1292876072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Whoa -- please explain how "man git revert" manages to work.
< 1292876175 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easier to see what action actually caused the bug if it prints out that thing before collecting the next 256 bytes or so for the dump.
< 1292876233 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't know; strace | grep git says it goes directly to git-revert.1.gz, presumably based on some index somewhere.
< 1292876300 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, since the new packets I've seen have had IDs 65, 66, 67, 68 and 6a, I wouldn't be very surprised if there were a 0x69-id inventory-related packet that will still crash mcmap; for example something related to having multiple players do things on the same inventory.
< 1292876307 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and I haven't tried chests and such at all.
< 1292876322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But "man foo bar" = man foo; man bar.
< 1292876329 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know.
< 1292876330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I don't see how an index can override that.
< 1292876353 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if it tries the whole line with spaces first, and then splitted only after.
< 1292876360 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at the source, of course.
< 1292876369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p
< 1292876371 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I just wanted the rhyme-alike.)
< 1292876558 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully by the time ineiros has the server updated and my missing packets turn up, some other people have already bothered to figure the protocol out. (I'm a bit suspicious of the 0xae packet too; it might be just trailing edge when some packet-size-change has made the parser be confused as to where another packet ends. In particular, it looks suspiciously much like the player-position-and-look packet's rear end.)
< 1292876623 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, it doesn't actually seem to happen.
< 1292876651 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was probably just my messed-up health-update handling that caused me to add that; I'll remove it. (I had a similar issue with a non-existing "0x7f" packet too.)
< 1292876728 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dying and respawning seems to leave regions of the map flickering, which is really quite bizarre.
< 1292876749 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it shouldn't be able to flicker unless the server keeps sending chunk-updates or block-setting packets.
< 1292877017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Mind if I make an OMG OPTIMISED build target?
< 1292877027 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sure, do that.
< 1292877034 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be OPTOMIZED by default, too.
< 1292877036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Cuz it's, you know, SO SLOW.
< 1292877039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Very well.
< 1292877040 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funroll-loops
< 1292877047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Ricer ricer ricer.
< 1292877049 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The funniest loops ever.
< 1292877049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4EVA
< 1292877054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do a funroll.
< 1292877135 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not just -funroll-loops, but -funroll-all-loops.
< 1292877147 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The option description is: "This usually makes programs run more slowly."
< 1292877218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292877232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :protocol.c:634: error: dereferencing type-punned pointer will break strict-aliasing rules
< 1292877237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Your program doesn't compile with -O3 because of -Werror.
< 1292877265 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Which one makes programs run more slowly, -funroll-loops or -funroll-all-loops ?
< 1292877270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter.
< 1292877287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can that type-punning be fixed or should I just disable -Werror for the optimised build?
< 1292877313 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it can be fixed with the union trick. I'll do that.
< 1292877317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rwxr-xr-x 1 elliott elliott 68K Dec 20 20:34 mcmap
< 1292877318 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit ugly-looking now, anyway.
< 1292877324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, the OPTOMIZED(tm) build is smaller.
< 1292877329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It uses -combine -fwhole-program.)
< 1292877512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie:
< 1292877516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :protocol.c: In function ‘packet_double’:
< 1292877516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :protocol.c:634: warning: dereferencing type-punned pointer will break strict-aliasing rules
< 1292877516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :protocol.c:639: warning: dereferencing type-punned pointer will break strict-aliasing rules
< 1292877516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main.c: In function ‘proxy_thread’:
< 1292877517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :protocol.c:359: warning: dereferencing pointer ‘state’ does break strict-aliasing rules
< 1292877519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are all the warnings.
< 1292877557 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better protocol.c in place. Though IIRC it would've been okay also to use just a float variable and access that via char *, wasn't there a special exception to strict-aliasing rule that you could access any memory via (unsigned) char*?
< 1292877563 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, the union thing works too.
< 1292877564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows.
< 1292877615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You may want to consider turning on -O2 in the debug build; a lot of warnings are missed without it.
< 1292877616 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I missed that one warning.
< 1292877620 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, working on porting to new protocol?
< 1292877627 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Already done, to some extent.
< 1292877632 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, large changes?
< 1292877649 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and is the docs for the protocol public or did they reverse engineer that quickly?
< 1292877659 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I reverse-neggineered it myself.
< 1292877673 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly I don't understand all the inventory packets, but I don't need to, for map-making.
< 1292877675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: HOW OFFENSIVE
< 1292877683 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah
< 1292877691 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Health packet went from one byte to two (took me a while to catch that, since it just desynced the packet reading; yay for not having a length field in there) and then a slew of inventory-related packets.
< 1292877709 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why did it go to two bytes I wonder
< 1292877711 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have probably not catched them all, I suspect some need interaction from multiple players. So it might still go crashy-crashy.
< 1292877723 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caught.
< 1292877734 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, caught?
< 1292877737 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can access anything through a char* safely but doing something like (a*)(char*)(b*) is no more correct than (a*)(b*)
< 1292877814 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, yes, but "double d; unsigned char *db = (unsigned char *)&d; db[0] = ...; ...; db[7] = ...;" should be fine, assuming that I do put in the proper values?
< 1292877821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Pushing the OPTOMIZED(tm) version now; to get the old type of build, do "make debug" (which just does @$(MAKE) --no-print-directory DEBUG=1, making it ever-so-slightly slower.)
< 1292877836 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes; like said, you can access anything through a char*
< 1292877841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(No, "debug: all DEBUG=1" doesn't work; the CFLAGS get set before that happens.)
< 1292877855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, I broke it. Lemme fix.
< 1292877893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pushing the fix now.
< 1292877898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The problem was that I tried to indent things.)
< 1292877931 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: How was it with the union trick? "union { double d; unsigned char b[8]; } db; db.b[0] = ...; ...; db.b[7] = ...; return db.d;"?
< 1292877947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1292877954 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The problem is languages which have such universal type inference don’t provide the same safety that languages with local or no type inference can provide"
< 1292877963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: heh what
< 1292877974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: is it trying to say "type inference generates too-general types"?
< 1292877982 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think someone got their head screwed on backwards http://www.codecommit.com/blog/scala/universal-type-inference-is-a-bad-thing
< 1292877985 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, basically. Although strictly speaking that is invalid C, all implementations I know of support it.
< 1292878010 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll let it be like that for now then, since I already made it like that.
< 1292878014 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, interesting:
< 1292878016 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main.c: In function ‘log_print’:
< 1292878016 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/bits/stdio2.h:115: sorry, unimplemented: inlining failed in call to ‘vprintf’: function body not available
< 1292878016 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main.c:496: sorry, unimplemented: called from here
< 1292878020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: well they're a scala fan, of course their head isn't quite right
< 1292878023 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In some sense, type inference weakens the type system by no longer providing the same assurance about a block of code." let me translate that "I never wrote more than one page of ocaml. Certainly never used the module system."
< 1292878024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What.
< 1292878026 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what
< 1292878033 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what it said when I went "make".
< 1292878035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Just looks like it's trying to inline vprintf and can't.
< 1292878036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh.
< 1292878037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Does it error out?
< 1292878043 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes.
< 1292878048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You /really/ want to get rid of -Werror for the optimised build.
< 1292878051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That ... uh, might fix that.
< 1292878052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe.
< 1292878053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the fuck.
< 1292878064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        CFLAGS += -O3 -combine -funroll-loops -fwhole-program
< 1292878070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not even -fricer level.
< 1292878094 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does -funroll-loops actually help?
< 1292878098 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, have you profiled?
< 1292878103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nope.
< 1292878106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm not gonna, either.
< 1292878112 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then why do you use it
< 1292878116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Cuz it's ricer.
< 1292878125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it's going to go any /slower/, at least.
< 1292878127 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, usually it is a pessimisation
< 1292878130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I can't think of a single unrollable loop in there.
< 1292878136 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, -Os is better often
< 1292878143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Of course it is.
< 1292878145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this is the ricer build.
< 1292878155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And -Os is pointless with glibc.
< 1292878155 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, of what?
< 1292878160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mcmap.
< 1292878168 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1292878170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most resource intensive program -- evar.
< 1292878172 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why on earth
< 1292878178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'S why it needs such optimisation.
< 1292878197 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, only time when -O3 helps tend to be when you are basically CPU bound in numerical computations
< 1292878208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like mcmap.
< 1292878220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I have dietlibc here.
< 1292878223 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't really
< 1292878230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'll add a target to use gcc -fucking-small and link with dietlibc. :p
< 1292878243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It enables the space-saving optimisations described in Ucking 98.)
< 1292878251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ucking et al. 98.)
< 1292878394 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, does the porting still work btw?
< 1292878410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Useless dietlibc support added! (Prizes to the first person who can compile glib and SDL with the dietlibc and get mcmap to link.)
< 1292878415 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the record, not using -Werror wouldn't have helped; it's an error, not a warning. (Though I have zero clue why bits/stdio2.h defines vprintf with the always_inline option.)
< 1292878421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'M ON A ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLL
< 1292878427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Have you fixed it?
< 1292878464 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what system? And I still don't have pkg-config files for zlib on ubuntu 10.04 LTS btw.
< 1292878469 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no, not yet. I don't really know what mcmap could be doing wrong there; it just calls vprintf, after including stdio.h and stdarg.h.
< 1292878471 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so I need to patch make file every time so far
< 1292878472 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1292878476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: lol "I am not quite sure I buy your argument." from the /creator/ of Scala
< 1292878481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the comments
< 1292878493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You shouldn't need to patch it now.
< 1292878511 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh? You changed it?
< 1292878512 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice
< 1292878513 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292878515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like "make libs='gio-2.0 sdl zlib' LDFLAGS+='-lzlib'" should work.
< 1292878516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe.
< 1292878524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC foo+=bar doesn't really work properly from the command line...
< 1292878532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :properly as in it doesn't execute after the makefile's definitions
< 1292878535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it gets overridden
< 1292878536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except, ah
< 1292878538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't in this case
< 1292878541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like "make libs='gio-2.0 sdl zlib' LDFLAGS='-lzlib'" should work.
< 1292878543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely
< 1292878545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, -lz
< 1292878548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what flags it needs, presumably
< 1292878549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1292878552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like "make libs='gio-2.0 sdl' LDFLAGS='-lzlib'" should work.
< 1292878555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fff
< 1292878558 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you could keep a local branch with the patched Makefile and "git rebase" on master after pulling, that'll work automagically each time the Makefile doesn't drastically change.
< 1292878570 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, key stuck?
< 1292878575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, I kept correcting in.
< 1292878576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it.
< 1292878583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: $ make libs='gio-2.0 sdl' LDFLAGS='-lz'
< 1292878587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fill in appropriate flags for -lz.
< 1292878589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should work.
< 1292878601 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, mmm
< 1292878603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But I won't "guarantee" it always will, since libs is, like, a private variable!)
< 1292878611 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, just -lz worked for me
< 1292878617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So that invocation worked? Good.
< 1292878625 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well before
< 1292878629 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I haven't tried it now
< 1292878629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may want to "make clean" if you have .os lying around; the optimised build won't generate them, so.
< 1292878635 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I edited the makefile before anyway
< 1292878644 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't plan to update just yet, I'm still connected
< 1292878745 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can only find a single reference to someone getting that inline-failed message for vprintf in particular (usually it's just their own functions), and there is no resolution, the guy just ends up removing -fwhole-program.
< 1292878755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES!! AN IRON PICKAXE!!
< 1292878763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what gcc version?
< 1292878777 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why not diamond?
< 1292878785 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and iron is trivial
< 1292878786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because I don't have any diamond; this game isn't very old.
< 1292878791 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292878795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no it isn't, I've been mining for iron with stone pickaxes for way too long.
< 1292878799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even now I only have enough for this and one more pickaxe.
< 1292878805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm building a staircase down, so...
< 1292878808 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mcmap?
< 1292878813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: On single-player?
< 1292878815 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc (Ubuntu/Linaro 4.4.4-14ubuntu5) 4.4.5, Ubuntu whatsitcalled, package version 4:4.4.4-1ubuntu2. Whatever it installs by default, anyway.
< 1292878819 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, minutor then
< 1292878824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Personally, I would edit the system header to remove that always-inline thing, but I'm crazy like that.
< 1292878828 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is a decent mapping tool when you have the world
< 1292878831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc (Debian 4.4.5-8) 4.4.5
< 1292878831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me
< 1292878847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Cheatin', man. I've only turned Peaceful on because I'm a wimp.
< 1292878855 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, my system has gcc 4.4.3 btw
< 1292878858 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD
< 1292878868 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "linaro"?
< 1292878872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO NO NO
< 1292878874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A SPIDER JUST SLURPED
< 1292878877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT I'M ON PEACEFUL
< 1292878882 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, bug?
< 1292878887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE IS *NO WAY* A MOB SPAWNER CAN HAVE A SPIDER BE ALIVE FOR LONG ENOUGH TO MAKE A SLURPING NOISE
< 1292878891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I CONCLUDE THAT THE BETA HAS BROKEN PEACEFUL MODE
< 1292878895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEAR GOD
< 1292878897 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whops
< 1292878931 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, is beta 1.0_01 ?
< 1292878934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hearing mob spawner noise + hearing things moving about when there's nothing outside the window, in the day time, and it sounds like it's near you + hearing spider slurp when in your mines, near where the mob spawner was
< 1292878935 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that make sense
< 1292878936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
< 1292878942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It was 1.0, but then he fixed it five minutes later.
< 1292878959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I will work on the MacOSX launch bug tomorrow!"
< 1292878961 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes the _01 I get
< 1292878969 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the 1.0 bit I don't get
< 1292878972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because it's the first version of beta.
< 1292878977 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 1.0 sounds like final release
< 1292878978 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay
< 1292878986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Well, holy moly, beta is out. We'll update the website and increase the price now. :D" ;; Aren't you *already* a millionaire?
< 1292878989 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's what it says nowadays. Linaro's some sort of linux-on-ARM advocacy group.
< 1292879000 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, huh
< 1292879007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it's still 25% off the full price.
< 1292879014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much money does the man want for such a buggy game?
< 1292879028 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well hopefully it won't be buggy when it reaches stable
< 1292879028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/427
< 1292879029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1292879047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Presumably they include Linaro optimisations, but I can't imagine how they'd touch non-ARM-target builds.
< 1292879056 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the headers end up having the always-inline attributes (for vprintf and others) when __GNUC_PREREQ(4,3) and __GNUC_STDC_INLINE__ is defined.
< 1292879101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Undefined the latter. :p
< 1292879103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Undefine
< 1292879146 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1292879155 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://p.zem.fi/pjsm
< 1292879163 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which ubuntu version?
< 1292879164 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think they want me to. :p
< 1292879170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I ...
< 1292879174 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The official one.
< 1292879182 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can never remember the numbers.
< 1292879184 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10?
< 1292879185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "-D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -D_REENTRANT" Ain't them new?
< 1292879187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, 10.10
< 1292879198 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, the Perfect Ten.
< 1292879206 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stay on LTS
< 1292879229 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Those are added from pkg-config somewhere.
< 1292879260 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe not.
< 1292879283 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, for --cflags sdl.
< 1292879333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Welp, SORRY but your computer is not hardcore enough for the optimised edition.
< 1292879374 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, with -U__GNUC_STDC_INLINE__ instead I get:
< 1292879376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In file included from /usr/include/stdio.h:930,
< 1292879376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                 from /usr/include/SDL/SDL_stdinc.h:37,
< 1292879376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                 from /usr/include/SDL/SDL_main.h:26,
< 1292879376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                 from /usr/include/SDL/SDL.h:30,
< 1292879376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                 from world.c:5:
< 1292879377 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/bits/stdio2.h: In function ‘printf’:
< 1292879379 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/bits/stdio2.h:105: error: invalid use of ‘__builtin_va_arg_pack ()’
< 1292879435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292879464 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what distro does ellitott use?
< 1292879474 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian nowadays, I think.
< 1292879477 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least at the moment.
< 1292879491 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292879520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292879543 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should need a good quality random number generator that will first generate a seed value or take it from user input, and then can generate random numbers based on the algorithm, such that it will be the same all computers (so that you can play duplicate draft). Which algorithm should work good? Is the one in METAFONT good?
< 1292879602 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not exactly sure how mcmap manages to trigger the problem, since a test program that just has a main and a vprintf-function like that works just fine.
< 1292879603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292879623 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292879662 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, was it gcc 4.5.x?
< 1292879669 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so: not surprised
< 1292879674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:11:04  fizzie, what distro does ellitott use?
< 1292879676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1292879688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: mersenne twister
< 1292879692 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well not same as fizzie I guess
< 1292879712 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but iirc mersenne isn't a CPRNG+
< 1292879716 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/+/?/
< 1292879733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Is zzo38 doing cryptography?
< 1292879735 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I already mentioned the version, didn't I?
< 1292879742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think he is.
< 1292879744 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.4.5.
< 1292879747 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, true, he isn't
< 1292879751 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm huh
< 1292879771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You may also want to consider http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blum_Blum_Shub.
< 1292879772 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes, couldn't find it when scrolling bacl
< 1292879774 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back*
< 1292879785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Mersenne twister is very popular.
< 1292879804 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No. I am looking for one that is suitable for TeXnicard.
< 1292879817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Welp, Mersenne twister of Blum Blum Shub are my recommendations.
< 1292879853 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, isn't blum blum shub rather slow (hm, wtf at that name btw)
< 1292879864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: He's writing this in TeX, it's going to be slow.
< 1292879868 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The generator is not appropriate for use in simulations, only for cryptography, because it is very slow."
< 1292879870 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blum's the slowest thing in the world.
< 1292879875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And it was invented by Blum, Blum and Shub.
< 1292879880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, I'd go for Mersenne.
< 1292879887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just Vorpal whined about not being crypto-ready. :p
< 1292879889 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I am writing the program in Enhanced CWEB.
< 1292879892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Ah.
< 1292879895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mersenne_twister
< 1292879898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Just use that, everyone does.
< 1292879906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's even pseudocode on the page.
< 1292879935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mersenne_twister#Implementations <-- Now here's a section that needs extreme cutting.
< 1292879954 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's decent if you don't need a CPRNG
< 1292879955 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MT's very popular indeed.
< 1292879975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linoleum_%28programming_language%29 LOL BLATANT ADVERTISEMENT
< 1292879998 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Marsaglia (of "Random numbers fall mainly in the planes") posted what he likes best in comp.lang.c not far ago, IIRC.
< 1292880026 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/)/ fame)/
< 1292880038 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, planes? is that the thing about PRNG and attractor analysis?
< 1292880045 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha!
< 1292880053 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just wrote my first trainer
< 1292880054 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292880062 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK I can use Mersenne twister
< 1292880071 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, trainer for?
< 1292880076 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B.A.D
< 1292880090 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, never heard of it, what is it?
< 1292880093 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :space shooter for DOS by Webfoot, hard to find
< 1292880097 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing special
< 1292880107 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, the high-dimensional lattice structure thing, yes. Probably just that.
< 1292880108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am going to venture -- with sound off -- into the territory of Minecraft on Supposedly Peaceful.
< 1292880111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I will have my fucking sword at the ready.
< 1292880136 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: finally I just decided to write small, offline memory dump analyser
< 1292880136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Armourless no less.
< 1292880136 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mcmap build works without -combine -fwhole-program, but of course that's loser-talk.
< 1292880140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: heh
< 1292880154 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of patching dosbox debugger
< 1292880158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: As long as you put go-faster flares on, I guess it's okay.
< 1292880161 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with new functions
< 1292880202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O god.
< 1292880204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's too scary.
< 1292880208 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the best way to initialize the seed if no user seed has been specified?
< 1292880221 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time(NULL)^getpid()
< 1292880222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: "Another issue is that it can take a long time to turn a non-random initial state (notably the presence of many zeros) into output that passes randomness tests. A small lagged Fibonacci generator or linear congruential generator gets started much more quickly and usually is used to seed the Mersenne Twister with random initial values."
< 1292880233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: As for the input to that, try the current time. :p
< 1292880282 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK. (I want to ensure it works on both Windows and UNIX systems, however. I could put a change tag there if needed.)
< 1292880310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Don't seed it directly like that.
< 1292880326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Seed a Fibonacci generator or whatever with that, run it for a bit, and seed the Mersenne twister with its output.
< 1292880364 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, maybe I can do with Fibonacci generator.
< 1292880370 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For seeding it.
< 1292880391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie I need therapy because of spiders.
< 1292880415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to pause the game every two seconds because I'm frightened to death that a spider will jump out of a corner and ravage me.
< 1292880442 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No actually you have to win a big spider more bigger than you. You also need to make a copy of the game on VHS tape.
< 1292880444 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i HATE spiders
< 1292880452 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Just for giggles I tried it with gcc-4.5 in addition to gcc-4.4 too, and what it did was to remove the warning for the vprintf call in main.c:log_print, but add instead two similar warnings for both the printf and the vprintf calls in main.c:do_die. I'm not sure they've quite debugged the whole -combine thing.
< 1292880473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You could use "cat" instead. :p
< 1292880488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Now I need therapy.
< 1292880501 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the function for which it gives the warning depends on the order of the source files on the command line.
< 1292880516 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No you don't need therapy. You need a VHS tape.
< 1292880525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do?
< 1292880541 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1292880542 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's a bit different warning: "/usr/include/bits/stdio2.h:115:1: sorry, unimplemented: inlining failed in call to ‘vprintf’: redefined extern inline functions are not considered for inlining"
< 1292880589 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need a VHS tape and a big spider.
< 1292880660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[# This may raise some eyebrows but I'm restricting the use of eval(*), setTimeout(string, ..), setInterval(string, ..) and Function(..). Don't dynamically include a script either (good call @bga_!). This list may grow if I discover another way of getting eval in so please don't bother. This rule targets the dynamic creation and running of js only (creating dynamic animations or whatever is fine). Note that setTimeout and setInterval with functi
< 1292880660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on arguments are still okay! I'm doing this for aesthetic reasons, mostly. The most fun of creating a demo is hand tuning it!]]
< 1292880672 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : time(NULL)^getpid() <-- uh, what if pid wraps around in the same second!?
< 1292880673 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1292880677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently the JS1k guy thinks he's cool enough to disallow procedural generation of programs.
< 1292880683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way to eliminate a major source of compression and creativity!
< 1292880705 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's laaaaame
< 1292880713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Totally is.
< 1292880722 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, JS1k?
< 1292880722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why would you even do that? Dynamic inclusion of scripts, OK. But the others??
< 1292880727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Exactly what it sounds like.
< 1292880734 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, javascript 1000?
< 1292880741 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You should read my eval paper!
< 1292880744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *1024 +byte
< 1292880746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, link it already.
< 1292880750 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sss.cs.purdue.edu/projects/dynjs/eval-TR.pdf
< 1292880765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it isn't pun-titled I refuse.
< 1292880798 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH BUT IT IS
< 1292880804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3
< 1292880804 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, have you seen any enemies on peaceful yet?
< 1292880817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, I'm too much of a pussy to unpause for more than a few seconds.
< 1292880821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, I can't believe this is 1k: http://js1k.com/2010-first/demo/635
< 1292880827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c=document.body.children[0];h=t=150;L=w=c.width=800;u=D=50;H=[];R=Math.random;for($ in C=c.getContext('2d'))C[$[J=X=Y=0]+($[6]||'')]=C[$];setInterval("if(D)for(x=405,i=y=I=0;i<1e4;)L=H[i++]=i<9|L9?0:X;j=H[o=x/u|0];Y=y9&S<41;ta(u-S,0);G=cL(0,T=H[i],0,T+9);T%6||(A(2,25,T-7,5),y^j||B&&(H[i]-=.1,I++));G.P=G.addColorStop;G.P(0,i%7?'#7e3':(i^o||y^T||(y=H[i]+=$/99),'#c7a'));G.P(1,'#ca6');i%4&&A(6,t/2%200,9,i%2?27:33);m(-6,h);qt(-6,T,3,T);l(47,T);qt(56,T,56,h);A(G);i%3?0:T$-9?1:D);ta(S-u,0)}A(6,u,y-9,11);A(5,M=u+X*.7,Q=y-9+Y/5,8);A(8,M,
< 1292880827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q,5);fx(I+'¢',5,15)}D=y>h?1:D",u);onkeydown=onkeyup=function(e){E=e.type[5]?4:0;e=e.keyCode;J=e^38?J:E;X=e^37?e^39?X:E:-E}
< 1292880831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very very impressive.
< 1292880882 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no procedural generation kind of ruins it
< 1292880969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1292880974 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I SEE A SETINTERVAL BLORP BLORP
< 1292880987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That's from the last competition; also, he only disallowed *string* setIntervals.
< 1292880994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, you can still  procedurally generate, just not procedurally generate *code*.
< 1292880996 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I SEE A STRING SETINTERVAL BLORP BLORP
< 1292881000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genetic algorithms vs. genetic programming.
< 1292881004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That's from the last poop.
< 1292881011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://js1k.com/2010-first/demo/593 MOTHERFUCKING ANIMATED LASERS
< 1292881075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You should have attributed the opening quote to Douglas "Secretly Satan" Crockford.
< 1292881077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know it's true.
< 1292881087 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, silly
< 1292881094 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lack of code gen)
< 1292881097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1292881197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To this end, we have built an infrastructure that automatically loads over 10,000 web pages." "And have since put it to work downloading porn."
< 1292881220 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We probably have a not-insubstantial amount of porn downloaded, yeah.
< 1292881302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Put up a torrent of all of them :P
< 1292881353 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ du -hc cache
< 1292881353 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6.4G    cache
< 1292881412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So?
< 1292881416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: There are torrents bigger than that.
< 1292881425 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't saying that was infeasible at all :P
< 1292881432 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, that's only half our cache.
< 1292881440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Do eet.
< 1292881450 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably a lot of it ISN'T porn though D-8
< 1292881476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You probably got some kiddie pr0n in there, too, and also of course heaps of copyrighted material so GOOD LUCK redistributing that :P
< 1292881493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"   To illustrate the power of eval, consider the following example, which is one way to
< 1292881493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :implement objects using only functions and local variables."
< 1292881497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRB, ADOPTING THIS IN ALL MYCODE.
< 1292881498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MY CODE.
< 1292881499 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don't think there's child porn in the top 10,000 most popular sites ...
< 1292881507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU WANNA BET
< 1292881508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And:
< 1292881512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You didn't consider unpopular sites? LAME
< 1292881579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What's that new function syntax JS1.93458345whatever introduced?
< 1292881584 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there?
< 1292881592 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: function(x) x
< 1292881599 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, need help debugging the possible collaboration thingy?
< 1292881609 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you have a server I could try going there)
< 1292881617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: To illustrate the power of eval, consider the following example, which is one way to
< 1292881617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :implement objects using only functions.
< 1292881619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Point = function() {
< 1292881619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    return {x:0, y:0};
< 1292881619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}
< 1292881622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: U JELLY?
< 1292881635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES! FOILED AGAIN!
< 1292881647 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That doesn't implement objects, it just leans on the pre-existing implementation of objects.
< 1292881650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also, does anything actually support function(x) x yet...?
< 1292881654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: That doesn't implement objects, it just leans on the pre-existing implementation of objects.
< 1292881658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So does yours :P
< 1292881660 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How good is Xorshift random number generator?
< 1292881661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval is a function which is an object.
< 1292881662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also strings.
< 1292881665 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Only Mozilla, and it's not even part of standard ES, so nothing will.
< 1292881667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Not as good as Mersenne.
< 1292881670 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'll save that to some point when it naturally crashes; if I have any luck, someone has figured the protocol out by then.
< 1292881671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: lawl
< 1292881679 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah
< 1292881679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Oh, wait.
< 1292881682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It's Marsaglia.
< 1292881685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yes, that should be just fine.
< 1292881691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Just steal the implementation from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xorshift :P
< 1292881716 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That is the page I looked at! The only problem is, what is the best way to seed it?
< 1292881726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Looks like it comes pre-seeded to me.
< 1292881757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: But, um, if seeding it with time() or whatever isn't enough, you could use a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_congruential_generator.
< 1292881761 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can see that. That is why I need to make it seedable by external.
< 1292881803 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ought to use a generator good enough that even WotC could use it for making booster packs and it would be difficult to predict what cards you are going to get.
< 1292881844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Point = function(){
< 1292881845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    return (function(o){
< 1292881845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        
< 1292881845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    })(function(f){return f((function(f,x){return x}),(function(f,x){return x}))}
< 1292881845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}
< 1292881854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Skeleton of an example which implements objects using only functions.
< 1292881870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That function it's being called with is lambda-calculus-style (0,0) :P)
< 1292881877 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think you fully understand the notion of an illustrative example :P
< 1292881889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You should have put that in with "..." in the body.
< 1292881894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leaving the body as an exercise to the reader.
< 1292881917 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Results
< 1292881923 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Results are left as an exercise to the reader.
< 1292881929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"                                                                    Any assignment to
< 1292881930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an undeclared variable in JavaScript, including in an eval, will implicitly declare the
< 1292881930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable in the global scope, becoming globally visible and polluting the namespace.
< 1292881930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, executing eval(”x=4”) in a scope that does not include x will declare x in
< 1292881930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the global scope and assign it the value 4."
< 1292881932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr javascript sucks
< 1292881978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Now you've made me want to write Pong In Five Statements D:
< 1292882009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[                           Of course the above code could be implemented straight-
< 1292882009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forwardly without eval as:
< 1292882009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      Resources[”message ” + userInput]]]
< 1292882016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ever considered Resources.messages[userInput]? :P
< 1292882056 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's not the above code.
< 1292882061 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's code similar to the above code.
< 1292882066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No, but it is a better solution :P
< 1292882076 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, it is, and we go into that later.
< 1292882086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Your eval("Resources.message_" + validate(userInput)) isn't the same code as that either.
< 1292882091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depending on the definition of validate :P
< 1292882097 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough *shrugs*
< 1292882106 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If using Xorshift, what would be the best way to modify the registers for seeding? Should we change "w"? Should we add the seed number to all of "x" and "y" and "z" and "w"? How should it be entered into a bibliography?
< 1292882111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm jus' pickin' on you 'cuz I'm jealous.
< 1292882144 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jealous of all the porn our autostuff downloaded.
< 1292882147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38:     * Marsaglia (July 2003). "Xorshift RNGs". Journal of Statistical Software Vol. 8 (Issue  14). http://www.jstatsoft.org/v08/i14/paper.
< 1292882151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: would be the bibliography reference.
< 1292882167 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... XD
< 1292882171 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK. What formatting should be used?
< 1292882196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The seed set for xor128 is four 32-bit integers x,y,z,w not all 0, while the seed set for MWC is three 32-bit integers
< 1292882196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x,y,z and an initial c SPACE := $(EMPTY) # <-- why not " " ?
< 1292885392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you mean SPACE := " "?
< 1292885399 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah
< 1292885399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that defines it to literally be quote mark, space, quote mark
< 1292885401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh
< 1292885405 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh...
< 1292885409 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how silly
< 1292885409 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hopefully that's sarcasm and that other construct is considered equally bad
< 1292885412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are clearly a make n00b luz3r
< 1292885418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I doubt it
< 1292885423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: oh wait
< 1292885426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: just looked at it :D
< 1292885428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah okay
< 1292885428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1292885485 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe the submitter thinks that's the best way to do it and the wonder of clarity
< 1292885487 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, C#?
< 1292885496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: prolly
< 1292885498 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck does ?? do there
< 1292885501 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as the readers we're supposed to go "lol, the *real* wtf, etc"
< 1292885505 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not remember
< 1292885531 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably s ?? foo means s != null ? s : foo
< 1292885533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1292885539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: btw i want to get rid of implicit rules in the makefile, not on the command line
< 1292885549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so -h does not help :P
< 1292885588 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, all:\n$(MAKE) - realall
< 1292885594 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(NOTE: DON'T DO THIS)
< 1292885601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	echo $(subst $(SPACE),$(COMMA),$(LD.FLAGS))
< 1292885603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHA IT WORKS
< 1292885606 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could ... $(filter) on MAKEFLAGS (or whatever it's called), then call make recursively if implicit rules are not disabled
< 1292885614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I might, actually, except the way olsner does it.
< 1292885618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't really think of a cleaner solution. :p
< 1292885634 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you would need one per target
< 1292885635 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!
< 1292885642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nope
< 1292885645 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put an if around your whole makefile, and use MAKECMDGOALS along with a catch-all rule to implement the wrapper
< 1292885645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: %: \n ...
< 1292885651 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh my
< 1292885653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, what olsner said
< 1292885671 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and remember to handle an empty list of goals
< 1292885725 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember doing this once (not for the purpose of adding -r though) and deciding that it didn't end up that ugly after all
< 1292885725 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, won't the first rule be invoked then?
< 1292885756 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: put everything in an if so only the wrapper part is visible when you've decided you need to wrap
< 1292885761 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not BSD make
< 1292885766 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it much nicer iirc
< 1292885825 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, didn't mk have problems with spaces in the filenames?
< 1292885846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mk, yes, I think so.
< 1292885854 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about make?
< 1292885856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSD make is less featureful, so I can't bend it into usefulness.
< 1292885864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It works *if* you take precautions at every point to make it work.
< 1292885871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Which my library *will* but *nothing* else does.
< 1292885884 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a make library?
< 1292885893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes.
< 1292885900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The idea is that you can make your Makefile look something like this:
< 1292885906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :include useful.make
< 1292885909 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a make library? intriguing
< 1292885916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(call c-program, foo, *.c)
< 1292885918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the like.
< 1292885925 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does it do the deps thingy then
< 1292885929 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you get those .d files
< 1292885930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, it will.
< 1292885943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It'll also hopefully have easy ways to add pkgconfig libraries to the mix, without manually doing $(shell pkg-config ...).
< 1292885960 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and if the package only has foo-config?
< 1292885973 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in /usr/bin/motif-config (I hope not!)
< 1292885975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, then you get to add support yourself. Or maybe I'll have specific stuff for that :p
< 1292885979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, *allegro-config would be more realistic.
< 1292885995 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well okay, I don't know which packages still use only that old style
< 1292886006 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :allegro would be reasonable to presume
< 1292886010 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is so.... backwards
< 1292886017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Allegro is nice though. :p
< 1292886024 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, SDL isn't bad either
< 1292886030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Allegro does more stuff for you.
< 1292886045 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, true, but it feels rather outdated somehow (yes yes, allegro 5...)
< 1292886045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, how can one make a submake not print "make[1]:"? I want to use $(MAKE) to be a Good Citizen but I don't want it to think "ooh, recursion!".
< 1292886052 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used SDL. It does work.
< 1292886059 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one doubted that
< 1292886071 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (oneHundred == 100) { oneHundred /= 2; }
< 1292886086 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, dailywtf?
< 1292886095 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: What is the point of such a code?
< 1292886150 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Indeed.
< 1292886166 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX sometimes makes overfull boxes. I fixed it by setting \emergencystretch=\hsize
< 1292886264 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yes I have seen that code in Daily WTF.
< 1292886304 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Don't use a submake?
< 1292886320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Give me another way to disable the default set of implicit rules.
< 1292886334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Than filtering on MAKEFLAGS and re-making with --no-builtin-rules if it isn't there.)
< 1292886344 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh!
< 1292886378 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's what you're doing.
< 1292886431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah.
< 1292886432 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, just manually redefine a replacement for each built in rule
< 1292886436 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1292886444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There is no way to know exactly what built-in rules are defined. :p
< 1292886455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except maybe INVOKING MAKE TO ASK IT!11271892 (Even if this is possible: NO.)
< 1292886467 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, make -p
< 1292886477 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then write a parser in make
< 1292886487 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, generate a makefile, and include it
< 1292886489 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something
< 1292886500 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, note: not a good idea
< 1292886511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl#
< 1292886513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lawl
< 1292886515 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292886545 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm is make classified as an expert system or not?
< 1292886559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1292886567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact "Recursive Make Considered Harmful" explicitly describes it as one.
< 1292886570 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292886581 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I wonder if you could turn it into a probabilistic expert system!
< 1292886677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha.
< 1292886678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAKELEVEL=0.
< 1292886713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make: *** No rule to make target `sdf'.  Stop.
< 1292886713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make: *** [sdf] Error 2
< 1292886716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to get rid of that pesky second line.
< 1292886726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq:
< 1292886726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.RECIPEPREFIX
< 1292886726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    The first character of the value of this variable is used as the character make assumes is introducing a recipe line. If the variable is empty (as it is by default) that character is the standard tab character. For example, this is a valid makefile:
< 1292886726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :              .RECIPEPREFIX = >
< 1292886726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :              all:
< 1292886728 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not sure you can
< 1292886729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :              > @echo Hello, world
< 1292886730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    The value of .RECIPEPREFIX can be changed multiple times; once set it stays in effect for all rules parsed until it is modified.
< 1292886733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL WAT.
< 1292886746 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is a "recipe" in make
< 1292886763 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292886764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The actual shell script with make variable inclusions and the like.
< 1292886767 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1292886770 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1292886782 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can it be set to two chars
< 1292886789 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so you can do space indented makefile
< 1292886791 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even mixed
< 1292886801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.RECIPEPREFIX := $(SPACE) *should* work.
< 1292886808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you'd really want space-or-tab, which I think is impossible.
< 1292886812 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292886835 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I know it would confuse the hell out of most editor's mode for makefiles
< 1292886843 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs would probably hate you
< 1292886845 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for kate
< 1292886851 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU Make really could do with a "break compatibility" option so that it can have saner syntax.
< 1292886867 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, then, GNU would fuck it up somehow.
< 1292886871 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeha
< 1292886872 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah*
< 1292886875 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write your own?
< 1292886901 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, all of this channel would thank you
< 1292886908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like turn $@ into $THE_TARGET_FOR_THIS_HERE_GNU_(GNU'S_NOT_UNIX)_MAKE_RECIPE_WILL_BE_PUT_IN_PLACE_OF_THIS_STRING
< 1292887004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Hey, my plan if this doesn't work out is to write my own Make-alike.
< 1292887016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Where in $(...), the code in ... is just interpreted in a pure, functional language.
< 1292887022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With PROPER LISTS, god dammit.
< 1292887102 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1292887108 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need lists, you can just use space-delimited strings! it's so much easier!
< 1292887134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Especially when your filenames have spaces in them!
< 1292887160 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can't use such files with make, make users will not create such files :D
< 1292887169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you can, actually
< 1292887172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just reaaally painfully
< 1292887202 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about filenames with : in them
< 1292887226 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you do foo: bar is a nice file.interesting extension.really fun : something
< 1292887230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think foo\:: bar might be valid
< 1292887231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not,
< 1292887234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo := foo:
< 1292887235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(foo): bar
< 1292887236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably is
< 1292887239 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah
< 1292887251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when in doubt, make a fucking variable
< 1292887269 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mpw make!
< 1292887275 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just because)
< 1292887278 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ever used it?
< 1292887293 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has it's own syntax, using non-ascii for stuff like : and \
< 1292887303 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(macroman ftw)
< 1292887320 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ?
< 1292887322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i've seen it.
< 1292887326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when trying to compile your cfunge port
< 1292887334 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I didn't port cfunge...
< 1292887338 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I ported ick
< 1292887352 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :porting cfunge would be insane
< 1292887392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh joy, there's commas in my function argument
< 1292887399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to mutilate my vital organs
< 1292887403 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1292887426 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the issue is that make is doing this on a textual level
< 1292887431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say
< 1292887439 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean, it is rather insane
< 1292887439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait my cat function seems broken
< 1292887440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat!
< 1292887442 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even for shells
< 1292887442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like real cats
< 1292887451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always...broken
< 1292887474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok you know what? fuck $(LD.FLAGS) for now
< 1292887488 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why are you using that name
< 1292887495 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, LDFLAGS is kind of more common
< 1292887500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA THE ISSUE IS THAT I HAD NEWLINES IN MY MACRO
< 1292887513 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: this is not the channel for "common" and you know it
< 1292887516 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait what
< 1292887518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because "CFLAGS" is stupid; I'm rationalising all the variable names and then defaulting them to the common name
< 1292887526 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah
< 1292887526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. CC.FLAGS := $(CFLAGS)
< 1292887528 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nice idea
< 1292887531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may end up lowercasing it to cc.flags for less annoyance :P
< 1292887534 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, seen it done before though
< 1292887546 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, WHY NOT SHOUT WHEN YOU CAN. ALSO IT'S TRADITIONAL!
< 1292887583 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Tradition, tradition, where would we be without tradition" <-- I know this is a quite from somewhere, but I can't remember where
< 1292887618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define default
< 1292887618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(eval,ifndef $(1)
< 1292887618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(1) := $(2)
< 1292887618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endif)
< 1292887618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endef
< 1292887620 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think, some play)
< 1292887621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww, doesn't quite work
< 1292887622 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or such)
< 1292887826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaa it works
< 1292887831 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how?
< 1292887835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define default_body
< 1292887836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	ifeq ($$(origin $(1)), undefined)
< 1292887836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		$(1) := $(2)
< 1292887836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	endif
< 1292887836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endef
< 1292887837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :default = $(eval $(call default_body,$(1),$(2)))
< 1292887843 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whaaat
< 1292887854 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense
< 1292887857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure why the make example for ?= uses origin like that though
< 1292887861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think that
< 1292887861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(eval
< 1292887862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo
< 1292887863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar)
< 1292887866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gets all its whitespace flattened
< 1292887871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas a multi-line macro can have any whitespace it wants
< 1292887877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. $(foo bar baz) has all its newlines normalised to spaces
< 1292887882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas the body of a multi-line macro does not
< 1292887884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus explaining the above
< 1292887885 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ouch
< 1292887906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"    If the variable variable-name has an empty value, the text-if-true is effective; otherwise, the text-if-false, if any, is effective. The rules for expansion and testing of variable-name are identical to the ifdef directive."
< 1292887906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292887908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so origin is morep recise
< 1292887910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*more precise
< 1292887949 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ...what does origin do now again?
< 1292887961 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230230111.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292887966 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292887968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: horrible things: http://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/make.html#Origin-Function
< 1292887991 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, *decides to leave minecraft running overnight*
< 1292888001 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope it won't do anything insane like swap trash
< 1292888065 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh my
< 1292888127 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230230111.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292888171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quote = '$(subst ','\'',$(1))'#'
< 1292888175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Guess what that comment is for.
< 1292888187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Answer: To stop Emacs thinking the rest of the Makefile is in a quote.
< 1292888199 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, emacs fails parsing then
< 1292888200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXAMPLE USAGE:
< 1292888201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define c-program
< 1292888201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	;
< 1292888201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	$(call cat, $(CC) $(CC.FLAGS) $(CPP.FLAGS)) \
< 1292888201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		-o $$(call quote,$$@) \
< 1292888201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		$$(foreach src,$$^,$$(call quote,$$(src)))
< 1292888203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endef
< 1292888222 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have no idea what that does. I never used call in make even
< 1292888228 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292888230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal:
< 1292888233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo = $(2) $(1)
< 1292888236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(call foo,a,b) => b a
< 1292888243 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yearh
< 1292888246 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeargh*
< 1292888250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: quote = '$(subst ','\'',$(1))'#'
< 1292888255 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did it turn a variable into a function?
< 1292888256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So, we have literal ', a call, and a literal '.
< 1292888260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The call transforms ' into '\''.
< 1292888261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So:
< 1292888265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(call quote,a' b)
< 1292888266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :->
< 1292888270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'a'\'' b'
< 1292888271 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!!!!
< 1292888272 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. 9 months after the election, Iraq finally forms a government.
< 1292888274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is how you shell-represent "a' b".
< 1292888278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And yes, it does; string-based!
< 1292888280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Remember that
< 1292888281 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
< 1292888281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define foo
< 1292888282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1292888282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endef
< 1292888285 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just defines a string too.
< 1292888295 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not a string foo?
< 1292888298 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1292888302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes yes yse.
< 1292888303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yes.
< 1292888305 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1292888326 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, $(flavor ...) looks even worse
< 1292888329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ make
< 1292888329 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than origin
< 1292888329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc -o 'foo' 'foo.c'
< 1292888330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit ugly though.
< 1292888332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOLUTION?
< 1292888333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another function!
< 1292888340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That only quotes if there's any quote-needing characters.
< 1292888341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To quote.
< 1292888356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am, by the way, laughing.
< 1292888364 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh?
< 1292888369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1292888371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is very silly.
< 1292888383 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, yes it is
< 1292888399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I think if I do
< 1292888403 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(info text...)
< 1292888403 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    This function does nothing more than print its (expanded) argument(s) to standard output. No makefile name or line number is added. The result of the expansion of this function is the empty string.
< 1292888404 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh
< 1292888407 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@echo ?
< 1292888412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anywhere in the makefile, silly.
< 1292888413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(filter-out %a%,$(1))
< 1292888414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1292888416 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh right
< 1292888420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(filter-out %a%,$(1))$(filter-out %b%,$(1))$(filter-out %c%,$(1))...
< 1292888425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for every single safe character
< 1292888428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I can do kwote
< 1292888432 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this in absurd
< 1292888444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no. Argh.
< 1292888475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to start listening to emo just to accurately convey my mood right now.
< 1292888481 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ouch
< 1292888484 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that's bad
< 1292888489 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you need a VHS (??)
< 1292888493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION slits the wrists of his inner programmer

< 1292888496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And a big spider!
< 1292888500 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and that
< 1292888506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCCS
< 1292888507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Any file n is extracted if necessary from an SCCS file named either s.n or SCCS/s.n. The precise recipe used is ‘$(GET) $(GFLAGS)’. The rules for SCCS are terminal (see Match-Anything Pattern Rules), so SCCS files cannot be generated from another source; they must actually exist.
< 1292888508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DOES THIS EVEN EXIST
< 1292888510 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and a big RMS plush figure
< 1292888528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh man, I would buy that if and only if it's in the pose of eating stuff it picked from its feet.
< 1292888535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and then promptly burn it.
< 1292888535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Twice.
< 1292888541 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I doubt rms does that
< 1292888546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHA
< 1292888550 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what?
< 1292888560 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, [citation needed]
< 1292888562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I25UeVXrEHQ
< 1292888562 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292888566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: skip to 1:47
< 1292888574 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not sure I will...
< 1292888575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (Note: You really, really don't want to.)
< 1292888575 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hm
< 1292888588 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed I won't
< 1292888646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Writing a make replacement sounds SO lovely right now.
< 1292888648 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "8.12 Functions That Control Make" <-- don't all in some sense
< 1292888661 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, keyword: NOT TEXTUAL
< 1292888666 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, binary file format!)
< 1292888669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sexual make. (Wait, what?)
< 1292888670 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:16:25  20:31:48  Do you have any high resolution templates for Magic: the Gathering cards? I should need templates with a better quality than the ones Wizards of the Coast uses.
< 1292888675 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:16:31   Funny you should mention it, why yes I do!
< 1292888677 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:16:38  XD
< 1292888692 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU ENJOYING YOURSELVES
< 1292888696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> 07:16:25  20:31:48  Do you have any high resolution templates for Magic: the Gathering cards? I should need templates with a better quality than the ones Wizards of the Coast uses.
< 1292888696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> 07:16:31   Funny you should mention it, why yes I do!
< 1292888696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> 07:16:38  XD
< 1292888696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU ENJOYING YOURSELVES
< 1292888702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU ENJOYING OURSELVES
< 1292888712 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait what
< 1292888718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, wait what
< 1292888719 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you mean "good to see us"
< 1292888724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good to see wait what!
< 1292888726 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :redundant elliott is redundant
< 1292888728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  elliott, wait what
< 1292888728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, you mean "good to see us"
< 1292888732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S GOOD REDUNDANT
< 1292888754 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is indeed redundant (not just redundant elliott!)
< 1292888774 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, we have Gregor
< 1292888792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor serves my purpose?
< 1292888795 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that X Y is X is an old meme
< 1292888800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he probably knows.
< 1292888802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one would assume.
< 1292888802 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well no, but zzo fills the rest
< 1292888803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps.
< 1292888810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I will cause your death.
< 1292888812 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: _probably_, but he _is_ Vorpal
< 1292888821 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: that X Y is X is an old meme <-- you don't say!??!?!
< 1292888827 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1292888855 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I can only presume that is your intention
< 1292888857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Quick, help me design a Make replacement.
< 1292888863 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, use macroman
< 1292888865 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not)
< 1292888878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Macro Man.
< 1292888879 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call it "fake"
< 1292888879 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, should it be TC?
< 1292888884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Why not :P
< 1292888892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Bake. Cake. Shake. Lake. Sake. Rake.
< 1292888894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quake.
< 1292888897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take.
< 1292888901 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well... there are arguments in both directions
< 1292888906 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but yeah, TC
< 1292888918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not making it TC would make it harder to support useful features.
< 1292888920 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I seem to remember that "rake" is taken
< 1292888924 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some build system
< 1292888926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. So's cake.
< 1292888929 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is it? huh
< 1292888935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So's bake, it seems.
< 1292888935 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no that's a lie!
< 1292888943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sake is taken too.
< 1292888953 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, construct?
< 1292888963 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm too long
< 1292888967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Cons, the tool that SCons is inspired by :P
< 1292888973 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah...
< 1292888982 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is cons even worse than scons?
< 1292888991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's Perl. YMMV.
< 1292888993 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292888998 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YMMV indeed
< 1292889017 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292889026 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, make is a Swedish word  btw
< 1292889029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: At Least It's Not CMake(TM)
< 1292889040 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, alinc?
< 1292889048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does make mean in svedish?
< 1292889056 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "husband"
< 1292889068 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also w
< 1292889092 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so you could call the program spouse?
< 1292889117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh.
< 1292889131 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this is like taking cockney rhyme to a new level
< 1292889134 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something
< 1292889138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"emake" is my work-in-progress name, but. That's boring.
< 1292889140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Extended Make)
< 1292889144 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, emake is used
< 1292889150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shake has quite a nice qwerty-feel.
< 1292889155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, erlang.
< 1292889158 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1292889160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thankfully nobody uses erlang :P
< 1292889167 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think there is another emake too
< 1292889213 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you mean, last.fm, ubuntu (couchdb), Ericsson, ejabberd (forgot the company behind it) and so on?
< 1292889226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yep.
< 1292889228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of those exist.
< 1292889231 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah
< 1292889238 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so ubuntu is a lie?
< 1292889238 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230230111.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292889244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1292889257 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, explains why the bug reports seem to stay open forever
< 1292889259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mark Shuttleworth has actually just managed to embed mind-control into an .iso; your screen is, in fact, blank for the duration of Ubuntu's use.
< 1292889265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a sick, sick joke he is playing on us all.
< 1292889270 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, lucky I'm on arch
< 1292889271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, "%: Makefile" doesn't do the right thing. :P
< 1292889272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1292889272 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atm
< 1292889289 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so what *does* %: Makefile do?
< 1292889449 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mc data values make no sense
< 1292889491 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a number of blocks, wall signs, furances, pumpkins and so on, can face different directions
< 1292889503 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would think east/west/south/north would be same for all
< 1292889505 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1292889509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292889549 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ground levers:
< 1292889550 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * 0x5: Lever points west when off.
< 1292889550 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * 0x6: Lever points south when off. (Note that unlike the other types of switch, this version will not power wires around the block it is sitting on.)
< 1292889551 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1292889566 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292889571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1292889607 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also stairs use a different direction-encoding scheme
< 1292889609 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well
< 1292889622 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as ladders YET another one
< 1292889978 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1292890214 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292890350 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-83.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292890721 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292890926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ifneq "$(findstring $(SPACE),$(CURDIR))" ""
< 1292890926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(error Your work area is under a directory whose name contains a space.  While it's possible to beat make into working with such directories, it's surprisingly hard and causes more problems than it solves.  So, sorry, but don't do that)
< 1292890926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endif
< 1292890936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--salma-hayek, another (and much larger, multi-file) make "framework"
< 1292890945 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I fail this course, my GPA will go from 3.86 to a number larger than 3.61
< 1292890955 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you will do it I presume?
< 1292890961 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, GPA?
< 1292890976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: GPA = stupid numeric measure of success in USA
< 1292890977 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292890982 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah
< 1292890989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And I don't know if I'll do it; it really is a *huge* pain and it's also impossible to use lists like that, I think.
< 1292890991 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.0 being straight As
< 1292891003 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, so don't fail it?
< 1292891016 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, do half a semester's worth of work in one night?
< 1292891052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: On, what, xor swapping in Perl?
< 1292891061 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: make framework == fail, make library == potentially not fail
< 1292891063 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, so why didn't you?
< 1292891077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: "framework" in so far as it defines targets like "all" and "clean" for you :P
< 1292891079 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "GPA" = "Grade Point Average". Essentially an averaging of grades, with A=4.0, B=3.0, C=2.0, D=1.0, F=0.0.
< 1292891080 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, I missed a deadline, then got scared of checking whether it would be possible to submit
< 1292891081 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I mean, why didn't you work
< 1292891084 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it kind of snowballed
< 1292891090 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1292891092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Scared"?
< 1292891094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1292891096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ?
< 1292891097 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least using the framework/library distinction I read in a random blog post a while ago, dunno if there's any official definition of it
< 1292891098 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night →
< 1292891104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a very bizzare "measure" of academic performance.
< 1292891113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well with make it's more like... ball of mud vs. ball of mud :D
< 1292891117 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially as the given out grades are essentially arbitrary.
< 1292891147 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, scared
< 1292891153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Howso exactly?
< 1292891158 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of the thing closing so I couldn't submit work
< 1292891169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"scared of checking whether it would be possible to submit"
< 1292891175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You said scared of checking.
< 1292891177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not scared of it closing.
< 1292891192 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I ended up not checking. Or looking at it. Or doing anything else
< 1292891197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ...why?
< 1292891230 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1292891246 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292891268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You... forced a new WebKit build into Safari?
< 1292891270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY GOD WHY
< 1292891279 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, early adapter?
< 1292891289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Well, I ended up not checking. Or looking at it. Or doing anything else
< 1292891289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo: ...why?
< 1292891291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Question not answered yet.
< 1292891315 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because I was scared.
< 1292891325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Of /what/
< 1292891327 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grades are useless
< 1292891343 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292891344 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of it being too late to do anything
< 1292891352 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for getting into the next level of education where you can achieve: more useless grades
< 1292891353 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you think that this was rational?
< 1292891355 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't
< 1292891355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, but you said scared of /checking/.
< 1292891361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but irrational is one thing.
< 1292891363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Completely stupid is another.
< 1292891379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: but then you get a ph.d.!
< 1292891397 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION declares it to be time for more Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3 FES

< 1292891408 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: orly? I didn't
< 1292891424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: then you didn't get enough useless grades
< 1292891431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: do what i said :P
< 1292891441 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292891483 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eugh, these x86 assembly instructions are so damned long :(
< 1292891562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: write your OS in MIPS and then just write a MIPS emulator in x86 asm
< 1292891654 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ARM, I have arbitrarily decided that I like ARM assembly more than MIPS
< 1292891661 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIPS is easier to decode though
< 1292891703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yes but with mips you can, one day, perhaps run on jsmips
< 1292891737 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps!
< 1292891737 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1292891760 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe look into Alpha which has that PAL thingy
< 1292891764 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sounds cool
< 1292891767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: alpha is super-complex :P
< 1292891768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1292891816 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-83.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292891832 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, right, not so cool to emulate... but potentially for writing stuff in
< 1292891845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: write it in MIX, not MMIX, MIX
< 1292891856 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, write a microkernel directly in PAL or something
< 1292891863 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man. This game has an in-game calendar.
< 1292891868 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The End of the World is marked on it.
< 1292891898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"By default, the Make rules should compile and link with ‘-g’, so that executable programs have debugging symbols. Users who don't mind being helpless can strip the executables later if they wish."
< 1292891900 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what you can do with it though, and wikipedia didn't have a complete description so I'll assume there's not a lot of online information about it
< 1292891906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I use the debugging symbols in my binaries ALL THE TIME
< 1292891923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: define pal
< 1292891947 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20100131, in fact.
< 1292891969 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's a microcodeish thing that allows you to define custom assembler instructions (really function calls into PAL code)
< 1292891989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: psht, why not overwrite the actual microcode of the x86
< 1292891990 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292891995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do bytebytejump!
< 1292892000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: heh
< 1292892017 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that would be awesome, if only you could make your own
< 1292892028 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should get a job at intel or something
< 1292892040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you can
< 1292892057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: linux lets you write to microcode with a file in /proc if it's enabled at kconfig time
< 1292892064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: for applying microcode updates from intel
< 1292892067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something
< 1292892072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: all you have to do is figure out the format and instructions!
< 1292892085 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... and intel's private key for microcode updates?
< 1292892152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well, let's put it this way
< 1292892159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: either you can figure it out by reading the linux kernel source,
< 1292892166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: or /intel's cpus actually check the key themselves/
< 1292892176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, the latter would be an amazing feat of silicon
< 1292892177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i doubt it
< 1292892211 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I understand it, what's in linux is just glue code for sending the contents of intel's microcode files into the cpu
< 1292892239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: so you're saying the cpu actually has silicon/microcode on it to verify a public key?
< 1292892240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1292892240 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. mostly useless for anyone wanting to construct their own microcode file
< 1292892265 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the key wouldn't actually have to be assymetric, would it?
< 1292892279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well no i was about to correct that but decided not to :D
< 1292892289 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*asymmetric
< 1292892336 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it could also have plain x86 code that does it - every x86 cpu comes with an x86 cpu after all
< 1292892350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well, yes.
< 1292892354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: TIAS :P
< 1292892362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I accept no responsibility if etc.)
< 1292892374 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIAS?
< 1292892379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Try It And Snorkel
< 1292892382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or See.
< 1292892384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But probably snorkel.
< 1292892401 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do wonder what happens if you send random data as the microcode thing
< 1292892410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: TIAS!
< 1292892421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Tiaras Impede Actually Snorkelling)
< 1292892422 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION watches olsner brick his computer

< 1292892470 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292892523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: so how can I make everything depend on the Makefile I wonder
< 1292892525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must answer
< 1292892553 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sounds promising: "The microcode update is volatile and needs to be uploaded on each system boot i.e. it doesn't reflash your cpu permanently, reboot and it reverts back to the old microcode."
< 1292892640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it probably won't brick it then! now cat /dev/urandom to it
< 1292892664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: http://www.urbanmyth.org/microcode/
< 1292892668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: this may help sorta
< 1292892677 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep, found
< 1292892704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the filename for microcode again?
< 1292892708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna see if i can cat it :P
< 1292892733 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a text file, with many sets of updates (for different models, presumably), each is a list of 32-bit hexadecimal values
< 1292892751 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can: apt-get install intel-microcode :)
< 1292892754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292892790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit, make needs a
< 1292892800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(.WHAT_DEFAULT_GOAL_WILL_BE_AT_THE_END_OF_EVALUATION)
< 1292892849 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the data sets seem to have a header (a bunch have 12 words, the last entry in the file has 36 words of header)
< 1292893043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: please tell me you're actually gonna try writing to the file
< 1292893235 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292893266 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first problem: finding out which of all these updates belong to my CPU model
< 1292893266 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOON THERE SHALL BE SATAN
< 1292893284 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND I SHALL BE INVINCIBLE
< 1292893411 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice, the code that teases apart the file-of-all-updates into the right per-cpu update is in the kernel
< 1292893460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292893460 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292893677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/code/useful-make$ ls
< 1292893678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo.c   foo.d  Makefile  useful.make
< 1292893678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/code/useful-make$ rm foo.d
< 1292893678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: cannot remove `foo.d': No such file or directory
< 1292893679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spot the error
< 1292893707 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo.d\ \ Makefile?
< 1292893776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: nope
< 1292893843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: GUESS AGAIN MY FRIEND
< 1292894313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: answer: \ foo.d
< 1292894466 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292894593 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292894720 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, looks like I won't have time to do this microcode thingy until after christmas
< 1292894745 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to the academic calendar, the grades are due in a week
< 1292894751 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe I can still pull this off
< 1292894922 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it suddenly involved a reboot because I don't have kernel modules installed for my running kernel)
< 1292894962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: rebooting takes until after christmas?
< 1292894962 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and microcode loading (which might print some numbers when running) and msr reading (which could also tell me those numbers) both require loading some specific kernel modules
< 1292894966 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep
< 1292894970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292894976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: can't you just modprobe
< 1292894977 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no time for planned downtime!
< 1292894979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one advantage of dynamic modules!
< 1292894984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they save uptime
< 1292894999 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, using modprobe solves not having the modules installed?
< 1292895024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well you can always recompile the kernel, install it, and use modprobe, no>?
< 1292895025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no?
< 1292895033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even just compile the modules themselves?
< 1292895034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and modprobe them?
< 1292895048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makefile:2: *** commands commence before first target.  Stop.
< 1292895050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHUT UP YOU PIECE OF SHIT
< 1292895084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol it was because i had indentation
< 1292895235 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm starting to think I put about as much effort into school as a high school dropout, I just happen to be lucky
< 1292895275 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I could just reinstall the kernel package I had when I last booted :)
< 1292895322 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dmesg after modprobe microcode says: sig=0x10677, pf=0x10, revision=0x703 <-- those are the droids I should be looking for
< 1292895353 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's snow in Australia right now.
< 1292895358 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the summer. Fucking. Solstice.
< 1292895476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w.t.f.is.this.
< 1292895484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define compile
< 1292895484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@echo $(call quote,$(1))
< 1292895484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(2)
< 1292895484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endef
< 1292895484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works
< 1292895487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define compile
< 1292895487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@echo $(call quote,$(1))
< 1292895488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@$(2)
< 1292895490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endef
< 1292895492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says missing separator
< 1292895496 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, therefore, Global Warming is a lie!
< 1292895499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND
< 1292895502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define compile
< 1292895502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@echo $(call quote,$(1))
< 1292895503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	@$(2)
< 1292895503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endef
< 1292895505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works, but still prints $(2)
< 1292895511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT THE FUCK IS HAPPEN;FGHING
< 1292895561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define c-dep-rule
< 1292895561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(1).d : $(1).c ; $(call compile,DEP $(1).c,
< 1292895561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	$(CC.INVOKE) -M -MG \
< 1292895561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		-MT $(call quote,$(2)) \
< 1292895561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		-MF $(call quote,$(1).d) \
< 1292895562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		$(1).c)
< 1292895563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endef
< 1292895565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: behold the ugly
< 1292895609 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292895657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i needed MOAR BACKSLUSHES
< 1292895672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope wait avoided
< 1292895766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/code/useful-make$ make
< 1292895767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEP foo.c
< 1292895767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CC foo.c
< 1292895767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/code/useful-make$ make clean
< 1292895767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm -f 'foo' 'foo.d'
< 1292895769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh god this is hideous.
< 1292895793 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292895854 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this thing only contains 2012 bytes of microcode
< 1292895904 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when the snow crust carries a man at summer solstice, spring will be late
< 1292895925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I think they only contain "patches".
< 1292895993 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ancient northern norwegian proverb)
< 1292896016 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, forgot about how 4-byte ints take 4 bytes each - it's actually 8k :)
< 1292896166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define c-program-body
< 1292896166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(call c-program-rule,$(1))
< 1292896166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(call c-dep-rule,$(1),$(1))
< 1292896166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(if $(cleaning),,-include $(1).d)
< 1292896166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endef
< 1292896265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: olsner: http://sprunge.us/ejFR useful.make
< 1292896267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/YEbG Makefile
< 1292896272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: MOST HIDEOUS HACK IN THE HISTORY OF HACKS.
< 1292896282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FEATURES CODE LIKE
< 1292896282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quote = '$(subst ','\'',$(1))'#'
< 1292896283 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The language for Apex is sort of a combination of TECO and Sam."
< 1292896287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and
< 1292896289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define c-dep-rule
< 1292896289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to-clean += $(1).d
< 1292896290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(1).d : $(1).c ; $(call compile,DEP $(1).c,
< 1292896290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	$(cc.invoke) -M -MG \
< 1292896290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		-MT $(call quote,$(2)) \
< 1292896290 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://scientopia.org/blogs/goodmath/2010/12/19/apex-my-editor-project/
< 1292896290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		-MF $(call quote,$(1).d) \
< 1292896292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		$(1).c)
< 1292896294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endef
< 1292896308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: <3
< 1292896327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, dammit, Apex is already a cpressey language!
< 1292896412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody gonna call me out on that? :P
< 1292896447 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1292896455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: not gonna cry at my useful.make?
< 1292896686 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: google does not seem to support that claim much
< 1292896708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it was actually a language i managed to trick cpressey into semi-designing before he buggered off irc :)
< 1292896716 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292896809 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292897049 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292897341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/code/useful-make$ make
< 1292897341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  DEP	foo.c
< 1292897341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  CC	foo.c
< 1292897341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo.c: In function ‘main’:
< 1292897341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo.c:2: error: expected ‘;’ before ‘}’ token
< 1292897342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  (command was: cc -o 'foo' 'foo.c')
< 1292897343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make: *** [foo] Error 1
< 1292897345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww yeah
< 1292897351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define do
< 1292897352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	@echo $(call quote,$(SPACE)$(SPACE)$(1)$(TAB)$(2)); $(strip $(3)) || ( \
< 1292897352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		exit=$$$$?; \
< 1292897353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		echo '  (command was: '$(call quote,$(strip $(3)))')'; \
< 1292897355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		exit $$$$exit \
< 1292897358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	)
< 1292897359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endef
< 1292897361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a four-dollar programmer.
< 1292897363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ^
< 1292897902 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There is no God.
< 1292897912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No -- I am god, see.
< 1292897920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I got the number of $s right on my *second try*.
< 1292897923 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you are Loki.
< 1292897929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went straight from $? to $$$$?.
< 1292897929 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What language is this?
< 1292897932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is how in tune I am with make right now.
< 1292897934 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Make.
< 1292897936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Make, of the GNU variety.
< 1292897941 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292897948 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides not to learn it

< 1292897956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's not a language, it's a build system.
< 1292897962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A BUILD SYSTEM THAT I HAVE PERVERTED
< 1292897965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GAHAHAHAHAHA
< 1292897974 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's alright then
< 1292897977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO IT'S NOT
< 1292897983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IS SO, /SO/ NOT ALL RIGHT
< 1292898022 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh it's "Oh. Well, that's all right then"
< 1292898039 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292898049 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292898149 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.american-buddha.com/hitchhikersolong8.htm how is this legal? Or is it not?
< 1292898165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly it is totally legal.
< 1292898199 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292898338 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Copyright is enforced via civil law. Making it trivial to violate without fear of retribution if you're not a big enough target.
< 1292898486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://sprunge.us/STBN useful.make, slightly less horrific version.
< 1292898500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Semi-recommended reading now, as it merely provides insight into using and abusing make, rather than also inflicting mortal pain :P
< 1292898725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No?
< 1292899116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION attempts to gain 20 to 30 levels

< 1292899141 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292899158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: REEAD IT
< 1292899163 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could beat the game, but I want to completely break it first.
< 1292899205 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what game is this?
< 1292899207 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292899215 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, didn't I ask previously?
< 1292899216 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3 FES
< 1292899241 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AKA "really fucking hard".
< 1292899241 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wishes that all the effort that goes into mining Bitcoins was redirected to Folding@Home

< 1292899251 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292899313 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292899569 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I have now found the microcode that matches my CPU (both rev 0x705 and 0x703)
< 1292899592 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(change random parts and go? :D)
< 1292899597 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mooks have mediarahan. WHY.
< 1292899602 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mediarahan is a full party heal)
< 1292899673 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, the size of the patch doubled in size between those two revs
< 1292899711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo wishes that all the effort that goes into mining Bitcoins was redirected to Folding@Home
< 1292899714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose you hate hashcash, too
< 1292899730 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how much effort is put into hashcash, anywhere?
< 1292899739 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Hashcash even see use?
< 1292899742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: um, very little, just like bitcoins
< 1292899764 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People apparently have purchased lots of expensive GPUs for Bitcoins
< 1292899770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So?
< 1292899800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Would you be upset if I replaced the mcmap makefile with another one that's about 11 lines long, much clearer, and depends on an awful hideous monstrosity file I'm writing called useful.make? :-)
< 1292899950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real	0m1.961s
< 1292899950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha.
< 1292899962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mcmap's current Makefile is broken and doesn't generate the .ds.
< 1292900183 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1292900214 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292900319 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292900485 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292900665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So... you ever generated filenames with spaces in them using make?
< 1292900679 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really.
< 1292900717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Darn.
< 1292900725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (I'm trying to fix useful.make's handling of that right now.)
< 1292901287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I should just give up, shouldn't I.
< 1292901459 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292901640 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292901735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DOES IT DO THIS TO ME
< 1292901760 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because you don't go to sleep at night
< 1292901771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just 3:22 am fuck off
< 1292901781 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION was trying to be humerous

< 1292901784 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :humouros
< 1292901788 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't spell today
< 1292901847 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, now I'm cracking up
< 1292901977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So... do you happen to know a variant of $(foreach) that works for escaped spaces?
< 1292902220 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im afraid to make my videogame :(
< 1292902303 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, don't turn into me >.> [yes I know that makes no sense]
< 1292902311 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really.
< 1292902442 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wat
< 1292902461 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, crippling fear preventing you from getting something done
< 1292902468 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh, well
< 1292902475 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im afraid to do it because i want to EXPERIENCE the game
< 1292902490 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if i MAKE the game, ill be intimately familiar with it from the outset
< 1292902498 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there wont be anything wondrous to experience
< 1292902537 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm which one of you talented young minds wants to write about something interesting on my BLOG
< 1292902577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: i don't know. such a shame that links can only be clicked once before they expire forever
< 1292902583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope you choose wisely
< 1292902629 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292902672 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know : (
< 1292902717 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait what?
< 1292902788 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway if someone is interested in posting something cool i'm totes down with it but ideally it should probably contain a little math or compsci
< 1292902847 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292902888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh WRITE about something
< 1292902892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you said read
< 1292902900 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no write
< 1292902908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just link to the #esoteric logs
< 1292902912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instant blog post
< 1292902917 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no #esoteric logs are terrible
< 1292902923 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are the worst ever
< 1292902936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you'll find much support for that statement on #esoteric
< 1292902954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially considering how popular logreading is
< 1292903130 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway are there any interested ppl
< 1292903348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubtful, i can't recall ever seeing anyone in here do any work voluntarily
< 1292903398 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really work
< 1292903418 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an outlet to Talk About Something Interesting
< 1292903435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :through work
< 1292903456 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292903473 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292903528 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well i don't want someone writing who'd feel like they're doing work
< 1292903822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So this horrible hack turns out to be really nice actually: http://sprunge.us/HBNM
< 1292903829 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292903993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hey ho?
< 1292903993 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292904673 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hee ho!
< 1292904708 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's pretty nice if you ignore the contents of useful.make.
< 1292904771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's getting better, actually: http://sprunge.us/MbZN
< 1292904785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, ignore the commented-out defines...
< 1292904792 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're making GNU make usable.
< 1292904794 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God.
< 1292904806 0 :kanzure!~kanzure@131.252.130.248 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292904816 0 :kanzure!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what iz this place
< 1292904903 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :この場所は皆が英語で話せる所です。けど、僕は英語で話したくないので、日本語で話してる。^_^
< 1292904930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kanzure: a place of death and diere
< 1292904932 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292904934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and DIEF DIEF DIEF
< 1292904935 0 :kanzure!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lovely
< 1292904939 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292904942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kanzure: or a channel for esoteric programming languages
< 1292904943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU DECIDE
< 1292904965 0 :kanzure!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will, fine
< 1292904975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kanzure: we're all awaiting your decision!
< 1292904988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Apparently, because you talk in English, you speak Japanese.
< 1292904990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: A feat of logic.
< 1292905009 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Google Translate fails horribly.
< 1292905027 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It turns a negative into a positive and ignores the "want to" suffix.
< 1292905030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :P
< 1292905057 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is a place where everyone speaks English. But, since I don't want to speak English, I'm speaking Japanese."
< 1292905135 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292905135 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292905289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can I replace the Makefile with http://sprunge.us/HBNM plus a 100-line-or-so-black-box include file? :p
< 1292905565 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: diere? dief?
< 1292905598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Dief! Dief! Dief!
< 1292905612 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION feels severy whooshed

< 1292905619 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*severely
< 1292905667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: dief is the name of a macro in mcmap's code; I just felt it suitably ... die-y. It sounded very Nazi in a wonderful way! (Best sentence. Best sentence.)
< 1292905670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIEF!
< 1292905682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Pronounced "dye-ff".)
< 1292905719 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it means "thief" in dutch
< 1292905727 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, no one understand dutch anyhow
< 1292905731 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*understands
< 1292905747 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hits his fingers for bad spelling

< 1292906079 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292906350 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292906504 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Especially not the Dutch.
< 1292906516 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a big game they play with foreigners.\
< 1292906518 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was implied.
< 1292906528 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much like Swedish without the bork bork bork.
< 1292906557 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the danish http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-mOy8VUEBk
< 1292906647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOG QUOTE OF THE DAY
< 1292906648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:10:03 * oerjan has _never_ masturbated to the curry-howard isomorphism.  should i try it?
< 1292906668 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has no recollection of that quote

< 1292906679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was after
< 1292906685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:09:24  HEY LOOK GUYS I CAN PRETEND I'M A MATHEMATICIAN BECAUSE I CAN WRITE PROOFS IN COQ fapfapfapfapfap etc
< 1292906685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:09:31 * Sgeo_ should probably learn what the Curry-Howard isomorphism
< 1292906686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:09:33  *is
< 1292906691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and some other stuff, but)
< 1292906742 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am pretty sure i didn't actually try it, though
< 1292906755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you have done a disservice to science.
< 1292906797 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Facebook: When I download my data, I want to download all of it. That includes the messages to/from a girl who blocked me.
< 1292906804 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :win2 6
< 1292906820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: TYPE BETTER
< 1292906826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lose some windows
< 1292906828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: MEGAN
< 1292906829 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292906847 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I thought you hated xkcdsucks
< 1292906877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd sucks, xkcdsucks is just stupid as of late
< 1292906884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcdexplained.com/ is perfect though
< 1292906909 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it seems to have ended
< 1292906926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's part of what's so perfect about it.
< 1292906958 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292907103 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do kind of like the latest xkcd, though the "bitches" bit seems overdone
< 1292907113 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Randall is now making references to his own comic
< 1292907153 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, the latest xkcd is awesome, especially if you subtract the flaws. It's a wonderful message
< 1292907339 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292907362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: look what you have done:
< 1292907364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./08.11.01:01:10:32 * psygnisfive manually masturbates oerjan for feminine hysteria
< 1292907364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./08.11.01:01:17:32 * psygnisfive manually masturbates oerjan for fun
< 1292907374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn you!
< 1292907401 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am _so_ sorry for destroying your innocence in this way
< 1292907412 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MWAHAHAHA*
< 1292907417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did it have to be so
< 1292907448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:15:07 * oerjan is not particularly hysterical today, or feminine for that matter.
< 1292907449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:15:38  perhaps.
< 1292907449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:17:22  doubly good then!
< 1292907449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:17:32 * psygnisfive manually masturbates oerjan for fun
< 1292907449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:19:37  hey, a deer outside the window
< 1292907449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:26:12  cute :D
< 1292907451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:36:12  Yeah, that mundane magic page is one of the most brilliant things I've read in a long time.
< 1292907454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:36:44  Er, misread that as "hey, a deer masturbates outside the window" "cute".
< 1292907458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:37:08  thank you, fizzie.
< 1292907487 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292907558 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that there is anything wrong with that.
< 1292907590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: as a deer, i concur.
< 1292907593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: TO CUTENESS!
< 1292907617 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY MIND'S EYE! MY POOR MIND'S EYE!
< 1292907669 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just the universe's way to attempt to shock you out of procrastination.
< 1292907725 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have more time than I thought
< 1292907741 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I don't have as much time as I now think I might have, I might as well accept the 3.6 GPA
< 1292908479 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292908608 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Hardly anybody will care about your GPA.
< 1292908697 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292909317 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eclipse begin!
< 1292909335 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, now?
< 1292909371 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Total lunar eclipse tonight; it's penumbral right now.
< 1292909387 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be more obviously visible in about an hour when the moon hits the umbra.
< 1292909392 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait now
< 1292909395 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And be total about an hour after that.
< 1292909397 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah
< 1292909398 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good
< 1292909401 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought I had my timing off
< 1292909413 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that, i just thought it was several hours until it
< 1292909435 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The penumbra screws your concept of timing!
< 1292909486 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly the moon here looks like it's about to set :(
< 1292909567 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/Visibility_Lunar_Eclipse_2010-12-21.png According to this, you will just barely be able to totality as the moon sets.
< 1292909587 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, to see totality
< 1292909709 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292909763 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to eat
< 1292909779 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292909781 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't miss anything if this is the last time I look at the moon for the next hour, will I?
< 1292909789 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1292909794 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the real fun is when you get totality
< 1292909802 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least when the umbra hits
< 1292909806 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, the moon will be slowly darkening for the next hour.
< 1292909819 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much to see until it gets close to the umbra, though.
< 1292910789 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292910938 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292911929 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292912108 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292912641 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1292913099 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292913241 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eclipse!
< 1292913288 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray!
< 1292913313 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever so slightly
< 1292913322 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just took a trip outside to check

< 1292913419 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292913419 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually pretty nice here.
< 1292913421 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Straight up.
< 1292913486 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um i am assuming it cannot look much different in america :D
< 1292913501 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, it's just a nice night out, and the moon is straight up.
< 1292913529 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no, but seriously, don't you know? The American moon is MUCH better than yours!)
< 1292913541 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(why else do you think we had to go there?)
< 1292913542 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND made of cheese, too
< 1292913557 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ours is just made of cardboard
< 1292913660 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. We go and mine it, because it's the only way for America to get good cheese.
< 1292913680 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds legit to me
< 1292914006 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: where are you??
< 1292914119 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is still eating :/

< 1292914389 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292914445 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Colorado.
< 1292914452 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o
< 1292914632 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292915649 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292915879 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292916080 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1292916879 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292917078 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292917362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totality. :D
< 1292917385 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq is Facebook-stalking me =P
< 1292917406 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Mr. Totality is an enemy combatant obviously
< 1292917410 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I FACEBOOK-STALK EVERYONE.
< 1292917420 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But especially you.
< 1292918061 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's still lighter on one side...will it not get totally red?
< 1292918079 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292918116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: It will towards the time of greatest eclipse, 08:16:56 UTC.
< 1292918147 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292918217 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@166.199.254.79 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292918230 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292918399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1292918400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292918885 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292919108 0 :boily!~boily@dsl-173-206-147-4.tor.primus.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292919249 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292919382 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292919864 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1292920182 0 :atrapado!~rodrigo@193.144.79.241 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292920389 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292920430 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye
< 1292920640 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292921649 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292921847 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292921898 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292921977 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1292922849 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292923195 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292924146 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1292924199 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292924445 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292925195 0 :frodatio!~user@p54B29253.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292925211 0 :frodatio!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292925214 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.98 /8s in APNIC pool (the allocation threshold is about 2 /8s)...
< 1292925399 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292925581 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292926569 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292926789 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292926846 0 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-17-245.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292927116 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@75-174-216-120.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292927305 0 :javawizard!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292927590 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292927593 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292927593 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1292927602 0 :javawizard!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jcp
< 1292927644 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292927696 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292927799 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292928037 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292928056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292928479 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292929029 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292929198 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292929457 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1292929933 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292930020 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Totality. :D
< 1292930031 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it got too cloudy here :(
< 1292930199 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029083.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292930415 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292931315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292931399 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230231022.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292931509 0 :atrapado!~rodrigo@193.144.79.241 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292931643 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292931645 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :roper
< 1292931658 0 :roper!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :atrapado
< 1292932621 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230231022.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292932797 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292933761 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230231022.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292933914 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292934025 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292934489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292934567 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292934993 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230231022.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292935037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, a page linked from reddit turned out to be incapable of scrolling without javascript turned on
< 1292935044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of all the things that people use javascript for, that's pretty weird
< 1292935053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I opened it in w3m, in the end, so it wouldn't use the CSS either)
< 1292935142 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292935768 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1292935859 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Javascript or is it javashit? :-)
< 1292935862 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-176-145.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292935952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: there's nothing fundamentally wrong with JavaScript (in fact, it's a very nice language, although the DOM is irritating), but people try to use it in all sorts of contexts where they probably shouldn't
< 1292936101 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230231022.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292936296 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292937271 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230231022.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292937476 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292938441 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230231022.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292938583 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292939216 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-33-235.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292939379 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1292939549 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292939887 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292940932 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292940985 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1292941159 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292942188 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292942467 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292943480 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292943682 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292943773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292944517 0 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-17-245.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292944710 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292944782 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db43fe8.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292944796 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292944928 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292944972 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292945606 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292946006 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292946296 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292946976 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292946987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/12/21/woke-kids-lunar-eclipse/ ;; apparently this is what passes for an article these days
< 1292947027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm then again clicking a random link on that page only seems to show a tagline for me too, so maybe Fox don't want me to see their articles for fear of mocking them :D
< 1292947326 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292947462 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292947535 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292947970 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292948005 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Times like these will never happen again.". Err... TLEs happen about once per 17 months on average (oh, and there's apparently two next year) and are visible from about half of the planet at once...
< 1292948047 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :misinformation in the news
< 1292948059 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's something that will happen again!
< 1292948181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: yeah I think there's more article but the server isn't showing it
< 1292948193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope wait
< 1292948199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/12/21/report-evacuated-suspicious-odor/ was just a tagline before but it isn't now
< 1292948207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so heh, the entire article is "Times like these will never happen again."
< 1292948225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he means that the democrats and gays are going to band together and blow up the moon
< 1292948236 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I got a decent chunk of cats done in coq now
< 1292948280 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the proofs are awful though, don't know how to sort that
< 1292948284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: This many? http://www.stitching-dreams.co.uk/images/Bundle%20of%20KittensMed.jpg
< 1292948292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More seriously though, cool.
< 1292948303 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason I can't seem to access anything under nasa.gov (it won't resolve).
< 1292948303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget why I abandoned my impl. based on that one paper...
< 1292948305 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1292948320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do know that whenever I start doing algebraic structures, it fails round about at ... what point was it
< 1292948328 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im going on the catsters youtube videos
< 1292948331 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing the resolutions manually works, no idea why the recursive nameserver can't resolve it.
< 1292948351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was the first one that was just two other structures combined
< 1292948356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think all my operations became ambiguous or something
< 1292948370 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well that's useful actually - if you know what it is that made you give up I could try it out (too see if what I have falls apart or not)
< 1292948375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it worked *really* nicely before that with coercions and all ... can't remember if I ever did it with categories though
< 1292948390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: well, that was when i gave up doing algebraic structures, not categories :)
< 1292948401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: An implementation of the structures with categories would be interesting, though.
< 1292948425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preferably with coercions from stronger structures to weaker ones, and then defining "op" on e.g. magmas
< 1292948431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that all calls to op downcast the structure or whatever
< 1292948434 0 :co345at_office_i!~CoWw__Cr_@p5DD3A435.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292948434 0 :co345at_office_i!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude u want this http://ihaxor.hpage.com/get_file.php?id=911760&vnr=411870
< 1292948434 0 :co345at_office_i!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292948435 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I would need an example of algebra done inside category theory to get me started though
< 1292948435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1292948436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do like
< 1292948444 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason it started to wrk...
< 1292948465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definition {A : Magma} (x : A) (y : A) := op A x y
< 1292948468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1292948469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1292948472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definition opp {A : Magma} (x : A) (y : A) := op A x y
< 1292948478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, to hell with it, I've forgotten; I'll try again!
< 1292948486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yeah i'm not sure how to do it with categories really
< 1292948502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I have a feeling that Coq-with-categories would end up being a lot of fluff to get it cooperating with the categories
< 1292948505 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, NASA does confirm the two TLEs for next year... :->
< 1292948562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hacking a complex makefile while writing Coq ... this can only go well
< 1292948564 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: proofs are really verbose - I think I have to have my categories act as a model of an abstract theory or something, so all the mess doesn't leak in to proofs
< 1292948582 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo
< 1292948586 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292948599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: you could do that thing where you declare a model with axioms and then you "prove" them according to a concrete structure
< 1292948603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though i've forgotten how to do that in coq
< 1292948606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something with sections or something
< 1292948606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or modules
< 1292948618 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll look into that
< 1292948622 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1292948664 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's Section ., then some Variable declarations, then End. IIRC.
< 1292948674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: right, yes
< 1292948684 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where each Variable is an axiom.
< 1292948688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can code everything to the "axioms" which you have actually proved according to the gnarly concrete structure
< 1292948772 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292948883 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: um the unusual thing is supposedly that the eclipse is on the same day as the solstice (in american time zones)
< 1292948947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION takes a look at  dude u want this http://ihaxor.hpage.com/get_file.php?id=911760&vnr=411870

< 1292948950 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read something about this only happening every 500 years.
< 1292948962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's a folder called psyBNC2.3.1 but that actually contains what looks like mIRC :P
< 1292949011 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I fail to see the actual *significance* of that.
< 1292949012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell 17/12 * 365
< 1292949039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh j-invariant left i was just about to say something i remembered
< 1292949045 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's news!
< 1292949046 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, extremely improbable astronomical things happen pretty regularly, since there are a lot of them.
< 1292949058 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo hi
< 1292949059 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1292949067 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell 17/12 * 365
< 1292949068 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :517.0833333333334
< 1292949113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i think it would be somehow nice if the timeout stuff didn't include the time EgoBot needs to drag itself out of bed, is my suspicion
< 1292949171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1292949183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you see, botte does everything really quickly ...
< 1292949245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ecord Magma := mkMagma {
< 1292949245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  M : Set;
< 1292949245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  o : M -> M -> M
< 1292949245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}.
< 1292949245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coercion Magma_to_Set (m : Magma) : Set := M m.
< 1292949250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the basic idea
< 1292949252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except *Record
< 1292949254 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't, because it's not _here_
< 1292949269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that since Coq is stupid we need
< 1292949276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Record Magma := mkMagma {
< 1292949276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  magmaM : Set;
< 1292949276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  magmaO : M -> M -> M
< 1292949276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}.
< 1292949283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because otherwise we get clashes later, because coq is a douchebag
< 1292949287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so moving on, anonymous log-reader,
< 1292949330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Record Magma := mkMagma {
< 1292949330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  magmaM : Set;
< 1292949330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  magmaO : magmaM -> magmaM -> magmaM
< 1292949330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}.
< 1292949330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coercion Magma_to_Set (m : Magma) : Set := magmaM m.
< 1292949331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definition o {M : Magma} (a : M) (b : M) :=
< 1292949333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  magmaO M a b.
< 1292949335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see that??? BEYOOTIFUL
< 1292949347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the point where i get bored for a while
< 1292949492 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : no it doesn't, because it's not _here_ <-- haven't you realised that elliott does not know the difference between present and future tense by now?
< 1292949512 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, timeless elliott
< 1292949512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's disturbingly close to the truth :)
< 1292949537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S NOT LEFT-RECURSIVE DAMMIT I TOLD YOU IT HAS NO ASSOCIATIVITY
< 1292949542 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I would say it *is* the truth based on the data we have
< 1292949553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck off, I'm battling Coq
< 1292949565 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also very elliottish
< 1292949808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES IT FUCKING WORKS
< 1292949816 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292949857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, why are you complaining
< 1292949858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit coq
< 1292949883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Error: Notation _ * _ is already defined at level 40 with arguments
< 1292949883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at level 40, at next level while it is now required to be at level 40
< 1292949883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with arguments at next level, at next level."
< 1292949899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am pretty sure those two are equivalent :D
< 1292949904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait no
< 1292949909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one is at level 40 i think
< 1292950166 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292950378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "The convention of using the same suffix ‘.l’ for all Lex files regardless of whether they produce C code or Ratfor code makes it impossible for make to determine automatically which of the two languages you are using in any particular case."
< 1292950493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ratfor was invented by the people who invented C. After inventing C, they realized that they had made a mistake (too many semicolons) and they fixed it in Ratfor, although it was too late for C." --Stanford
< 1292950503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, so not STANFORD THEMSELVES.)
< 1292950560 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, scapegoat question
< 1292950568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try.
< 1292950597 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, have I understood it correctly in that it allows you to, for example, filter commits by some commiters (such as esr)
< 1292950610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not "really".
< 1292950613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of. Kinda.
< 1292950655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, yes, you could use a script to whitelist every non-esr commit, and in a hypothetical infinitely-flexible version, you could define a branch to be "not-authored-by-esr", but in the version I'm planning to implement, no, there is no native support for that.
< 1292950683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think branches will end up as, in my version, explicitly-whitelisted or automatic, to control whether patches trickle in without being explicitly pulled in.
< 1292950724 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah. Because based on that rather simplistic explanation there are some obvious issues. Trivial one being, committer a writes a function foo, but you filter him.  In another file, committer b (which you white list) changes something to call this function foo.
< 1292950742 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the obvious issue arise)
< 1292950752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for x in ; do \
< 1292950752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :			@echo '  RM	$x'; rm -f $x || ( exit=$$?; echo '  (command was: rm -f $x)'; exit $$exit ); \
< 1292950752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	done
< 1292950754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's not right ...
< 1292950770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Obviously patches to patches you don't have don't get applied.
< 1292950783 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so the compile will then break as one would expect
< 1292950790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No shit, sherlock.
< 1292950792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no, what you describe is not a feature of scapegoat at all, it is merely something that can be done with an extended, general implementation.
< 1292950806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore don't tell me how useless it is, I /know/ how useless it is; good thing it's not a feature, then.
< 1292950828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's simply that if you let branches be predicates for whether a patch is accepted, then
< 1292950828 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right, I saw you discuss this some days ago with ais.
< 1292950835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\p => p.author != (hash of esr))
< 1292950841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a valid branch, albeit one with rather few files in it.
< 1292950848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(given C-INTERCAL, which he wrote most of)
< 1292950849 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1292950914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea was that @tip would point to a complex formula specifying "the most recent (or was it oldest?) maximally-merged branch".
< 1292950932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But at that point you've got a full programming language and at least for now I've vetoed it, and will special-case @tip.
< 1292950963 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, but TC branch description sounds fun!
< 1292950972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would definitely not be TC.
< 1292951123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mcsweeneys.net/links/dreamjobs/dreamjobs5.html Ouch.
< 1292951198 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292951346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT THE FUCK MAKE
< 1292951351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW CAN A VARIABLE /LOSE/ VALUES
< 1292951370 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292951375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to_clean += $(1) $(2:.c=.o) $(2:.c=.d)
< 1292951381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fff
< 1292951382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH
< 1292951385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's to-clean
< 1292951387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to_clean
< 1292951438 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :underscoring the difference
< 1292951707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://sprunge.us/gZOC
< 1292951721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: useful.make -- now with implicit rules and more readability!
< 1292951798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Heh, I was just about to whine at you for making a curses dependency, but I see you've made it readline.
< 1292952428 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292952537 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292952628 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292952674 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292952784 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-14-126.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292952810 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1292953078 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1292953263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: quick! what's the variable name of the tree in which we're out-of-tree-building to?
< 1292953271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUILDDIR is ugly because of the repeated D
< 1292953484 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ANITVPATH?
< 1292953494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: wut.
< 1292953494 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since iirc VPATH works kind of the other way)
< 1292953512 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, not really)
< 1292953524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ANTI, then
< 1292953532 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292953533 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1292953538 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't notice the typo
< 1292953540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I'm not sure whether to get source files from another directory, or to put build files in another directory
< 1292953552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"GNU Standard" is to put build files in . and look for sources elsewhere, but that's a bit inconvenient
< 1292953561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to "make" by default putting stuff into build/
< 1292953573 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is kind of useful when you have a configure script and you have different builds against the same tree
< 1292953585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "make BUILDDIR=x" "make BUILDDIR=y"
< 1292953586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc
< 1292953608 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, make DEBUG=1 BUILDDIR=debug vs. cd debug && make
< 1292953614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also, the Makefile would have to figure out what directory it's in to figure out where all the files are, which just screams "MORE GNU MAKE FUNCTION FUN" to me :)
< 1292953616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, make DEBUG=1 BUILDDIR=debug vs. cd debug && make
< 1292953617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean
< 1292953626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make DEBUG=1 BUILDDIR=debug vs. cd debug && ../configure --enable-debug && make
< 1292953628 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is a bit messier without a configure script yes
< 1292953631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first one sounds nicer to me
< 1292953636 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the thing with configure is that you do it once
< 1292953640 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : then just make in the future
< 1292953645 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you update the version control
< 1292953656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 99.999999999999999999999% of times that's not what happens.
< 1292953666 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is when you are a developer
< 1292953672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the makefile changes. or because you remove the source tree. or any number of reasons. (yes, i know /you/ don't0
< 1292953673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*don't)
< 1292953675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a developer --
< 1292953682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easiest just to keep the default build/ directory.
< 1292953684 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292953687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell, you could even make DESTDIR=debug by default if DEBUG is on
< 1292953689 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as an end user, sure it isn't
< 1292953692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then
< 1292953693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ make
< 1292953693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs.
< 1292953698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1292953698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then
< 1292953700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ make debug=1
< 1292953701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs.
< 1292953704 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, quite
< 1292953704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ cd debug && make
< 1292953712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former is actually more convenient because you don't have to cd back afterwards
< 1292953717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you want to)
< 1292953725 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, often you want do run the binary though
< 1292953728 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are a developer
< 1292953730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: build/mcmap :P
< 1292953764 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I tend to not trust that for anything large. Imagine: wesnoth: can not find data files
< 1292953764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and for users, "$ cd mcmap && make" is much nicer than "$ cd mcmap && mkdir build && make -f ../Makefile"
< 1292953772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is how it'd look in this case
< 1292953780 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1292953781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i.e. programs that need to be installed to be tested
< 1292953783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. bad programs)
< 1292953792 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1292953796 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, they tend to often run from the build dir too
< 1292953805 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the devs get fed up with installing when testing
< 1292953807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: add a "make test" target
< 1292953811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.PHONY: test
< 1292953818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test: mcmap ; cd build; ./mcmap
< 1292953821 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is probably for the regression test suite
< 1292953823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*: build/mcmap
< 1292953826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: try-it-out ffs
< 1292953832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mcmap doesn't even have an install target :P (although if I can convince fizzie to let me replace the Makefile with one using useful.make, it'll automagically get one)
< 1292953832 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also mcmap need options
< 1292953840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh jesus shut up and write a shell script
< 1292953840 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292953851 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I didn't say your solution was bad
< 1292953861 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, just that the alternative isn't as bad as you make it out to be
< 1292953867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. But it is without a configure script.
< 1292953874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnu make is so broken :( You can't make targets depend on variable values.
< 1292953875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in
< 1292953879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%.o: %.c $(CFLAGS)
< 1292953879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in
< 1292953883 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sometimes a configure script is the sanest option
< 1292953884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if CFLAGS change, the objects need rebuilding
< 1292953888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not for mcmap.
< 1292953894 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well duh
< 1292953899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if CFLAGS change, the objects need rebuilding
< 1292953899 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I was thinking larger thing.
< 1292953905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah, no, configure is never the right option.
< 1292953914 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Gregor disagrees
< 1292953920 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does pikhq
< 1292953933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, pikhq hates autotools almost as much as i do.
< 1292953944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but nice argument from authority...
< 1292953946 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes but he think it is the least of bad alternatives iirc
< 1292953953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, he likes makefiles.
< 1292953958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If you ever want to update me on your current opinions... just let me know.
< 1292953967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: After all, you are like unto a god, and everything you say is immediately entered into my mind.
< 1292953993 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, I pretty much agree with Gregor's arguments for why configure is sometimes good. That is why I refer to him instead of restating them
< 1292953999 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I know he told you before
< 1292954021 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not appeal to authority thus
< 1292954026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Actually, he said configure is better than SCons, CMake, and plain-untailored-Makefiles when stuff is semi-complex and needs to be portable.
< 1292954028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is because:
< 1292954033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. SCons sucks ass.
< 1292954038 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, when you *can* avoid configure that is a good idea
< 1292954043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. CMake sucks ass.
< 1292954046 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not love configure either
< 1292954053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. Retards can't write Makefiles.
< 1292954060 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in some cases it is the least bad of options
< 1292954068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if you ignore the right option.
< 1292954072 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how do you crosscompile with useful.make?
< 1292954085 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, specifically a cross toolchain
< 1292954086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: make cc=your-crosscompiling-gcc-name
< 1292954088 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not canadian)
< 1292954110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But, uhh, if you're going to form opinions based on what is essentially a 115-line proof of concept ...
< 1292954118 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, of course not
< 1292954123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does everything mcmap's current Makefile does, plus some.
< 1292954130 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mhm
< 1292954139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now why the fuck is it not  regenerating the .ds at this point ...
< 1292954141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not regenerating
< 1292954161 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl
< 1292954222 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Right, the curses bits are there just because I used the curses attempt as a basis for the readline thing. Anyway, basically what it does is to use rl_replace_line("", 0); rl_redisplay(); to make the "readline area" contain just "> ", then wipe that with \r\e[K, print out the output, then rl_insert_text() the old text back and rl_forced_update_display() it on screen. (But since messing around with the readline buffer isn't exactly safe while some code
< 1292954222 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is inside readline(), I had to use that alternative, callback-driven interface.)
< 1292954277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Rite.
< 1292954299 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have to see the useful.make before I can make any sensible decisions; the current Makefile isn't exactly complicated either. (Especially if you get rid of the build-it-with-"-combine -fwhole-program" parts, which would I think happen also with the include useful.make solution.)
< 1292954319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The current Makefile has such features as "doesn't actually build the .d files properly".
< 1292954330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is why useful.make seemed to be almost half a second slower at building the whole program.)
< 1292954342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least it didn't build them properly last time I checked.
< 1292954415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(useful.make isn't exactly the *prettiest* thing -- GNU Make metaprogramming, yay -- but it doesn't do anything "awful", it's just a bit ugley. It's something I'm planning to maintain separately and beyond mcmap, though, so it's not like I've made the Makefile simpler by just shoving it into another file. It's more generic than that.)
< 1292954421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also this will give an install target for free.
< 1292954430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And do out-of-tree builds.
< 1292954463 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "whatever". As long as the build system doesn't get in the way.
< 1292954474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHAHA WORLD DOMINATION SHALL BE MINE
< 1292954522 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did switch from pkg-config zlib to just plain '-lz', since that is such a quasi-standard thing, and my work-workstation didn't have zlib installed inside pkg-config either.
< 1292954606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I dropped the debug target for "make debug=1", but to be fair, "make debug" was pretty slow because of the recursion.
< 1292954623 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and I did some protocol-updates based solely on that one wiki; I was a bit suspicious of one of their changes. Will have to test those new things tonight.
< 1292954644 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292954700 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I definitely don't care about the build system speed, given the size of the project. (So far things like "make clean; make debug" have been <2 seconds.)
< 1292954703 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that mc bug with peaceful in single player you mentioned
< 1292954708 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you confirm actual monsters?
< 1292954717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, I'm too much of a pussy to.
< 1292954731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I remembered how I did the structures.
< 1292954737 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I haven't seen anything about it elsewhere
< 1292954772 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Food now.)
< 1292954838 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: want to have a look at my draft?
< 1292954898 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sure it was on peaceful?
< 1292954911 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should try and define a group
< 1292954914 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292954917 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe you changed it by mistake
< 1292954921 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a bug changed it
< 1292954950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: sure
< 1292954953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, it was peaceful.
< 1292954974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Record Magma := mkMagma {
< 1292954974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  magmaM : Set;
< 1292954974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  magmaO : magmaM -> magmaM -> magmaM
< 1292954974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}.
< 1292954974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coercion Magma_to_Set (m : Magma) : Set := magmaM m.
< 1292954975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definition op {M : Magma} (a : M) (b : M) :=
< 1292954976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  magmaO M a b.
< 1292954978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infix "*" := op (at level 40, no associativity).
< 1292954980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that's the basic idea
< 1292954982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you do things like
< 1292954984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Record Semigroup := mkSemigroup {
< 1292954986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  semigroupMagma : Magma;
< 1292954988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  semigroupIsAssociative :
< 1292954990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    forall a b c : semigroupMagma,
< 1292954992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      a * (b * c) = (a * b) * c
< 1292954994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}.
< 1292954996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that code doesn't work because * is already defined in coq, but whatever)
< 1292955044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: but iirc this falls down later
< 1292955048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: but yeah i'd like to see your draft
< 1292955049 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been putting up with things like  magmaO M a (magmaO M b c)  everywhere
< 1292955054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292955073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: the nice thing about the coercions is, you can have "Foo" be a InsertStructureHere with all the proofs bundled in and the like,
< 1292955076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: but also say (x : Foo)
< 1292955081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the coercion to Set
< 1292955116 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://coq.pastebin.com/1jd3Ey51
< 1292955170 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292955206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking
< 1292955249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: you've certainly got much further than i ever did
< 1292955256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worries me slightly that the category definitions are a bit ugly though
< 1292955267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wow
< 1292955279 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised myself, I didn't expect to be able to defined CAT
< 1292955305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remind me to photoshop a picture of a cat to be made out of smaller versions of itself sometime
< 1292955307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat of small cats
< 1292955318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC the paper I read defined Cat
< 1292955334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very nice though
< 1292955455 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I keep going with it.. if it will not collapse
< 1292955475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I hope not, it'd be awesome if you could get the algebraic structures on top of that... then it might be a decent alternative to the crappy coq stdlib
< 1292955498 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah notice I use -nois which means nothing from Coq library gets used
< 1292955519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah ... for some reason that didn't undefine the * notation for me though when i did those structures just now
< 1292955554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Pushed the new build system; if you don't look at useful.make it's all nice and pretty. "make" does an OPTOMIZED(tm) build (well, just -O3; -funroll-loops is probably not helpful), "make debug=1" does a DEBUGGERISED(tm) build. "make clean" works, "make install" doesn't exist right now, "make objdir=foo" does what you'd expect, and you can set CFLAGS and the like if you don't know what cc.flags is.
< 1292955572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It niceifies the build output by default, but prints out the full command whenever anything goes wrong; V=1 makes it print everything (and this is automatically turned on if you use -n.)
< 1292955585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"make clean all" fails to generate the .ds properly due to an obscure bug, but I'm looking into that now.
< 1292955599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I used -lz rather than pkg-configging zlib.
< 1292955605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It builds into build/ by default.
< 1292955688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But "make objdir=." does work, if you're crazy.)
< 1292955717 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can't reproduce the issue you mentioned on peaceful in my games
< 1292955729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, it /was/ near a mob spawner.
< 1292955734 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but if you look at say lines 370 to 417. All that crap does is prove that  Ff o (eta o nu) = (Ff o eta) o nu = (eta o Gf) o nu = eta o (Gf o nu) = eta o (nu o Hf)
< 1292955737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because my STAIRCASE MINE IS ABOVE A MOB SPAWNER AAAA.
< 1292955741 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm, don't know anyone near me
< 1292955749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *any one :p
< 1292955757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yeah, it is a bit verbose ... but
< 1292955759 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nor any two
< 1292955765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: at least you proved it, I never got anywhere near that with mine
< 1292955804 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy idea: Maybe you could make a new category theory proof language... which uses Coq under the hood?
< 1292955825 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could even just be commutative diagrams
< 1292955888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No sounds so far...
< 1292955896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that would be nice ... sounds complicated though :)
< 1292955902 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1292955906 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl
< 1292955908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: it'd be nice if category theory turns out to be a useful basis for "typed" computation
< 1292955917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: like how intuitionistic logic is useful for that, via type theory
< 1292955923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lambda calculus
< 1292955947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what scares me a bit is that i have various tunnels of varying litness..
< 1292955962 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I don't see how that's possible because all the functions in category theory are just A --> B.. that's my ignorance though
< 1292955976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: it is a bit hard to imagine yeah
< 1292956083 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292956206 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292956223 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-238-210.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292956267 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm
< 1292956267 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292956303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I mean, can a spider spawned by a mob spawner manage to trigger off do-a-slurp-sound before it evaporates?
< 1292956323 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you happen to know what's the "simplest nontrivial theorem" for monoids?
< 1292956328 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no clue
< 1292956342 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I never seen them show up either like that
< 1292956345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: alas no
< 1292956346 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try and define moniod but I don't know what to say about them
< 1292956358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoid#Relation_to_category_theory :-)
< 1292956370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Likewise, monoid homomorphisms are just functors between single object categories. So this construction gives an equivalence between the category of (small) monoids Mon and a full subcategory of the category of (small) categories Cat. Similarly, the category of groups is equivalent to another full subcategory of Cat."
< 1292956372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: prove that :P
< 1292956448 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh I have n oidea how to define a subcategory..
< 1292956488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: maybe it's just (ob A) subtype-of (ob B)?
< 1292956489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the name was ob
< 1292956490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget
< 1292956493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the type of the category
< 1292956766 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that could work
< 1292956787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i guess you might need to include that the operations are equivalent but i forget so
< 1292956789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh
< 1292956796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically the main thing would be having the types be subtypes i think
< 1292956806 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"operations are equivalent" <-- Functor :D
< 1292956860 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292957092 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, beta is laggy as fuck
< 1292957094 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, on a local game
< 1292957104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: pretty, but restarting it helps
< 1292957108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i keep opening minecraft twice by mistake
< 1292957115 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh?
< 1292957120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pretty laggy,
< 1292957123 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway it is way slower than alpha
< 1292957132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: now i've fallen into a cavern and there's diamond but i'm busy running around scared shitless putting torches everywhere because oh god what if there really are monsters
< 1292957149 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I found no indications of that
< 1292957164 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the game is from pre-halloween btw (not that it should matter)
< 1292957224 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I considered doing some mega scale engineering in that game, smoothing out the discontinuities somewhat, at least for the areas I visit
< 1292957232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there is also gold though... and iron ... and diamond
< 1292957244 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fell?
< 1292957245 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how?
< 1292957245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have 64+33 coal though so I can come back to that
< 1292957256 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did you dig right below yourself
< 1292957258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: turns out when i removed a block to make my stairs go down further
< 1292957259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1292957261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just didn't notice
< 1292957264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it was obscured by darkness
< 1292957275 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so why didn't you use torches?
< 1292957309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I was about to place them FFS
< 1292957310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looked solid
< 1292957313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh redstone, too bad i don't need it
< 1292957316 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292957339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SERIOUSLY? a single diamond?
< 1292957341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck y'all
< 1292957367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shietloads of redstone though ... and coal
< 1292957385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i have enough coal for now
< 1292957416 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, lightstone on bottom of deep sea is pretty from the surface
< 1292957422 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like random lights spread out
< 1292957424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292957426 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially nice at night
< 1292957442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uh there's also water and lava and stuff so I bet these caverns branch a lot but I have lots of iron and a single diamond
< 1292957444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this is enough forn ow
< 1292957446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*for now
< 1292957453 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have until Sunday
< 1292957479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note to self: bunch of torches + torch on cobblestone = entrance to cavern
< 1292957502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more gold! wish gold was useful in any way at all
< 1292957503 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, idea to make creeper safe: small island, middle of ocean, 10 high obsidian tower. 3x3 or such. With ladder inside
< 1292957506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from like, compass
< 1292957508 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and steel door
< 1292957512 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, at both ends
< 1292957514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: heh
< 1292957518 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292957519 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then at top, a floating castle
< 1292957525 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least
< 1292957532 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :structurally unsound
< 1292957538 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the castle need not be obsidian
< 1292957554 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which saves on both annoyance and "fuuuu that was misplaced"
< 1292957565 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, probably make it obsidian just near the shaft
< 1292957576 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you think this is safe?
< 1292957621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, the castle would need to have no holes in the top.
< 1292957627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*on the top
< 1292957633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'd still see enemies if it had a glass ceiling :)
< 1292957644 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you could cover it with torches on top
< 1292957648 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without too much issues
< 1292957684 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but obviously, and exit there would use doors
< 1292957693 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(iron probably)
< 1292957713 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, still it is a lot less annoying than a obsidian fort on the ground
< 1292957716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's to stop a creeper getting in the obsidian fort? or is the top closed?
< 1292957724 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well yes
< 1292957739 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there could be doors to the top but as I said it would be floating above any ground
< 1292957742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what's to stop a creeper getting on top, and blowing up your castle's connection to the obsidian?
< 1292957743 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and it would be lit on top
< 1292957744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't matter, but
< 1292957752 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how could it
< 1292957757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: spawning there
< 1292957764 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but it is LIT ON TOP!
< 1292957768 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said several times
< 1292957769 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regarding the slowness, from Notch's Twitter: "I have a scary feeling the lag some people get might be leaf decay. Grraaaaahhh!!"
< 1292957776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it doesn't spawn there, it spawns below the castle
< 1292957779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on top of the obsidian
< 1292957790 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh
< 1292957793 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Misread as "lead decaf".
< 1292957793 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what?
< 1292957804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nm.
< 1292957805 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the obsidian shaft goes from ground to middle of bottom of castle
< 1292957810 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how could it spawn on top
< 1292957823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not floating?
< 1292957831 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://p.zem.fi/kdvd -- is there a reason it does DEP for all but one of the source files twice?
< 1292957836 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, I corrected that above
< 1292957848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Um, what. Let me take a look at useful.make.
< 1292957874 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, while a floating castle is indeed awesome, it has the disadvantage of being annoying to enter and exit
< 1292957880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can you clean and run it with V=1?
< 1292957889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Don't do make clean all, do make clean; make all V=1.)
< 1292957919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc -Wall -Werror -std=gnu99 -pthread -D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/include/glib-2.0 -I/usr/lib/glib-2.0/include -I/usr/include/SDL -O3 -M -MG -MF build/map.d map.c
< 1292957920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc -Wall -Werror -std=gnu99 -pthread -D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/include/glib-2.0 -I/usr/lib/glib-2.0/include -I/usr/include/SDL -O3 -M -MG -MF build/map.d map.c
< 1292957925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How strange, it's doing the exact same thing twice.
< 1292957936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect an objdir bug at this point.
< 1292957942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it worked fine before I added objdir support.
< 1292957973 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://p.zem.fi/g1cc but yes, it looks like that.
< 1292957983 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah... (about PCRM): "If these guys are against your dietary recommendations, you're probably doing something right, so I'm going to take this one as a win."
< 1292958004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does make -d V=1 2>&1 >foo to check

< 1292958090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Prerequisite `map.c' is older than target `build/map.d'.
< 1292958090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Prerequisite `build' is newer than target `build/map.d'.
< 1292958090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Prerequisite `Makefile' is older than target `build/map.d'.
< 1292958090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Must remake target `build/map.d'.
< 1292958110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It seems it decides it needs to do it all again after it re-makes after satisfying the .d dependencies the first time.
< 1292958155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha... hmm.
< 1292958200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Pushing a fix.
< 1292958218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr if you just want something to exist, not to update when it gets newer, make it a |-dependency.
< 1292958221 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there's a client update too?
< 1292958269 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's weird how it nowadays sends trees (or at least their leaves) before any other blocks.
< 1292958273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pushin' now.
< 1292958275 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must be leaf-decay-related.
< 1292958306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Fixed.
< 1292958344 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/what.png -- that thing in the upper-left corner does not fill me with confidence.
< 1292958346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" * Mysteriously, with the 1.2.0_02 update on November 4th, all Jack-O-Lanterns on worlds were converted back into pumpkins."
< 1292958346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*"*
< 1292958374 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also isn't static, it keeps flickering.
< 1292958433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gold tools are stupid, right?
< 1292958440 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is new in 1.0.2?
< 1292958447 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The durability is the same as wood, wasn't it?
< 1292958450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "on November 4th"
< 1292958451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Heh.
< 1292958457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also, that top-left is REAL. It's CHAOS.
< 1292958463 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, reading comprehension failure
< 1292958467 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you that is
< 1292958475 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, now read what I said again
< 1292958476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, compasses are IRON
< 1292958483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh.
< 1292958485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: bugfixes.
< 1292958496 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nothing on his blog, nothing on minecraft wiki
< 1292958556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay I'm on fire.
< 1292958574 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292958592 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/what2.png -- it's also not the only chaotic region.
< 1292958626 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it's the even rarer thing! missingno
< 1292958693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Visit it and SEE THE CHAOS.
< 1292958749 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've visited, but nothing special is visible to the client.
< 1292958761 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be that it goes over y=128, though.
< 1292958784 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292958795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: BTW, you're missing gold and iron ore from your emporium.
< 1292958804 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know.
< 1292958804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It does? How?
< 1292958848 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, protocol-wise the y coordinates go all the way up to 255, so he might have just relaxed the limits.
< 1292958865 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The room is slowly filling with smoke...
< 1292958869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might also be that the trees at max-alt are related.
< 1292958880 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't bother exactly counting which height it was at.
< 1292958881 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel that chimneys should prevent this.
< 1292958895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sucks having your house in a boring area.
< 1292958910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can you actually build above 128 though, now?
< 1292958927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Soul_Sand Since when is it called soul sand.
< 1292958929 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try to get up there to see.
< 1292958934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Netherrack Since when is it called netherrack.
< 1292958946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid tooltips.
< 1292958946 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"That's a nice netherrack you've got there."
< 1292958958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I can't even figure out that name ... at all.
< 1292958978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/eoxvk/sincere_thank_you_to_notch_for_the_tooltips/c19ufzq?context=3
< 1292958984 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rack as in wrack, I guess
< 1292958986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# The name "Netherrack" is not a misspelling of "Netherrock". [2]
< 1292958986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# It could also possibly be based on one or more of several definitions of rack having to do with suffering."
< 1292959061 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The server-side inventory did fix that item-placement thing.
< 1292959086 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should eat
< 1292959090 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION makes a respirator out of a blanket.

< 1292959102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://evilmousestudios.com/tronic/ Heh, someone got to the "single-colour texture pack thing" before me (well, sort of), except theirs is HD.
< 1292959181 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Teleporting still works, though with health on it's a bit dangerous. (Read: you pretty much die always.)
< 1292959268 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how does it work?
< 1292959310 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, gun powder is sulphur now?
< 1292959316 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(says tooltip)
< 1292959340 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half-step is stone slab
< 1292959371 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The server trusts client-sent "player position" packets pretty much absolutely, except it checks whether the path would go through solid blocks; so our teleportation command just sends two faked player-position commands, one to move from (px,py,pz) to (px,+128,pz), then another from there to (tx,+128,tz), where p is current player position and t the target.
< 1292959389 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then gravity will take care of getting the player down from y=128.
< 1292959417 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you can target lakes
< 1292959420 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for porting
< 1292959423 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's true.
< 1292959436 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1292959443 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you need to indicate if a lake is 1 or 2 deep!
< 1292959474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lakes aren't everywhere.
< 1292959497 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, common enough that it is still somewhat useful
< 1292959505 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it could keep the player flying with repeated move packets, and construct a temporary water basin below, then let you drop.
< 1292959507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But a322 has health off anyway.
< 1292959519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Actual flying is a known griefer thing, so that should actually work.
< 1292959520 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-80.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292959520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yep, but it breaks armour
< 1292959534 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, only in classic iirc
< 1292959534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But there's no health ... you don't need armour ...
< 1292959538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, okay.
< 1292959546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still.
< 1292959547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But there's no health ... you don't need armour ...
< 1292959549 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I like the look of the armour
< 1292959555 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might check whether you still get falling damage even if you "move" the player down from the highest point, but I suspect it just counts the drop from max-y to ground.
< 1292959556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So don't teleport.
< 1292959567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Move down 128 times.
< 1292959582 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it will still count the whole thing as a single jump.
< 1292959591 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'll test at some point.
< 1292959607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh *joy*, a lava lake.
< 1292959631 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a byte on the movement packets that is set when the player is on the ground, I'm not sure exactly what that does. The wiki says it's for "detecting flying".
< 1292959634 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yet another one
< 1292959643 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or at the old altitude?
< 1292959679 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, for large drops and such?
< 1292959768 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, course literature in one of your favourite areas. I have no doubt you will say the book sucks
< 1292959780 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Interaction design")
< 1292959797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Interaction design != HCI.
< 1292959806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway most HCI stuff is bullshit.
< 1292959810 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah
< 1292959816 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, course literature and so on
< 1292959834 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seems to cover HCI in parts at least
< 1292959836 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292959880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I died.
< 1292959913 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, authors are Sharp, Rogers and Preece. If those names mean anything to you (they don't to me)
< 1292959920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be explicit: I died, losing most of my possessions, and will now be transported to a spawn point from which I have no idea how to get to my house, which I built after wandering frustratedly at the bad map.
< 1292959926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Don't to me.
< 1292959939 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, why didn't you mark your path and so on
< 1292959947 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or use an inventory editor and teleporter
< 1292959958 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or next time, create a new world when you find the current one sucks
< 1292959968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because as I said, I was wandering frustratedly. The first coal I found, after walking for, like, a day, I punched through.
< 1292959969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Light streamed in.
< 1292959972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mountain was ONE DEEP.
< 1292959974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got ONE PIECE OF COAL.
< 1292959985 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292959987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then finally I found a nice mountain with trees and set up shop.
< 1292959995 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I would have generated a new map at that point
< 1292960002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I /was/ regenerating the world; I'd done it like five times, and decided I'd stop.
< 1292960015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. A tree I hollowed out.
< 1292960066 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, mcmap is definitely not as pretty as some of the competition, like the http://minecraftam.com/ thing.
< 1292960092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But who uses mcmap for the map?
< 1292960097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:P
< 1292960110 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the only thing I use it for, when I use it
< 1292960123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Looks like it needs a server mod to work.
< 1292960125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(automap)
< 1292960134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be wrong.
< 1292960142 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it does. "The mod/map is entirely clientside, meaning you can use it in singleplayer or on any SMP server, regardless of what mods it has."
< 1292960152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# The mod/map is entirely clientside, meaning you can use it in singleplayer or on any SMP server, regardless of what mods it has."
< 1292960153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1292960154 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is a client-side mod, not a nifty proxy tool like ours.
< 1292960160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's talking about http://minecraftam.com/MM.aspx.
< 1292960163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeah, proxies are more fun.
< 1292960190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: If you made your map lighting-savvy (i.e. torches light thiings up), and jigged the colours a bit, I think it'd be fine.
< 1292960225 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMP server?
< 1292960256 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "Survival multiplayer."
< 1292960257 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Aw, mcmap is definitely not as pretty as some of the competition, like the http://minecraftam.com/ thing. <-- sure, but which one runs on my system? mcmap, it has less requirements
< 1292960262 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1292960393 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it's path marking thing looks useful
< 1292960396 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to ehird at least
< 1292960410 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1292960414 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292960421 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linden Lab closed the Teen Grid
< 1292960433 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is not as big a victory for anti-age-segregationists as it sounds
< 1292960475 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Users between 13-16 have to be with an "affiliated organization" separate from the main part of SL
< 1292960480 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, 13-15
< 1292960500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All 1 people in here who play or care about Second Life thank you for that information.
< 1292960507 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't sound like a victory either way
< 1292960510 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, who cares about SL
< 1292960518 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in here at least)
< 1292960543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: BUT BECAUSE I'M BETWEEN 13 AND 16 ... NOBODY UNDERSTANDS M3... 0R MY UNKONVENSIONAL SPELUNG... WITHOUT SOMEWHERE I CAN BE TRULY UNDERSTOOD... A SECOND LIFE...
< 1292960549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..... HOW WILL I BE ABLE TO AVOID CUTTING MYSELF????/
< 1292960558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;__;
< 1292960566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MOVING ON
< 1292960568 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :octocat_sad.gif
< 1292960577 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is that github?
< 1292960589 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I got it the other day.
< 1292960601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hm3E2cGQE4
< 1292960607 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://github.com/images/error/octocat_sad.gif and then some sort of "the server, it is error" page.
< 1292960621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The error is a reference to those.)
< 1292960625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think.)
< 1292960626 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "Minecraft AutoMap requires Windows, the .NET Framework 4, and the XNA Framework 4.0."
< 1292960632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Mono :P
< 1292960637 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not xna iirc
< 1292960637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so XNA might be difficult.
< 1292960649 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also last I looked mono went to 3.5
< 1292960651 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to 4
< 1292960660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It goes to etc.
< 1292960670 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 11?
< 1292960675 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAA MY EYES
< 1292960676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes yes.
< 1292960685 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what
< 1292960710 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, DID I MENTION THIS ROOM IS FULL OF SMOKE
< 1292960726 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND I CAN'T OPEN THE DOOR OR THE SMOKE DETECTOR WILL GO OFF
< 1292960733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not the nicotine that kills! It's the smo-oo-ooke, the smoooke!
< 1292960745 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so put out the fire
< 1292960752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cancer, it's the smoke! Heart disease, it's the smoke. It's the smoooooooooke!
< 1292960766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the, it's the inhalation, it's the smooooke, the smooooooooke!
< 1292960784 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and there is this thing in fireplaces that kind of open and closes above them
< 1292960787 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you open it
< 1292960792 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what the English word is
< 1292960794 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, I'll get in trouble if the fire goes out!
< 1292960797 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spjäll in Swedish
< 1292960801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover is burning his parents.
< 1292960808 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so talk to some grown up?
< 1292960821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Phantom_Hoover is *burning his parents*.
< 1292960825 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, they didn't CARE
< 1292960829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also they live in Antarctica and there is nobody else within a seventy mile radius.
< 1292960831 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On account of being on fire.
< 1292960837 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh
< 1292960844 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1292960857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the smooooooooke.
< 1292960904 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION opens the door anyway.

< 1292961038 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292961156 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292961170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The first time I played the game I didn't know that I'd picked up clay, and I was wondering why the hell cooking eggs turned them into bricks..."
< 1292961217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/WNTDy.png whoa.
< 1292961273 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH GOD I CAN SEE FOREVER
< 1292961524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Get this. Framerate goes back to normal if you're beside trees and you look straight up at the sky...
< 1292961524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look back down, and I'm right back to 2fps from 40-60fps looking up."
< 1292961527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Notch quality.
< 1292961546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I propose we define "notch" to mean "very low/poor". It even SOUNDS like it means "small". Notch.
< 1292961592 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Notch" already has a meaning or ten.
< 1292961613 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crud
< 1292961616 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MISSED MY FINAL
< 1292961657 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're a retard
< 1292961671 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :missed missed or can-still-run-to-be-late missed
< 1292961680 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :missed missed
< 1292961688 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, why did you do that
< 1292961688 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must admit though, the "Crud" part is a lie
< 1292961693 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an optional final
< 1292961695 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292961696 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, alarm clock?
< 1292961703 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That can only help one's grade... my grade cannot be helped
< 1292961708 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1292961717 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to write a final tomorrow
< 1292961720 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last one
< 1292961725 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid balsdkfjals
< 1292961732 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm going in search of food
< 1292961734 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see yzs
< 1292961806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I MADE IT BACK HOME
< 1292961813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Notch" already has a meaning or ten.
< 1292961817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it does, doesn't it...
< 1292961857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HA I've lost all my iron.
< 1292961908 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Noun, sense 1. An affectionate synonym for 'vagina'. See also gash. Noun, sense 2. Someone with whom you basically just get drunk and/or high and have sex, usually on a short term basis. Compare to "your girl" or "a ho", both are higher on the intimacy ladder." (Urban Dictionary.)
< 1292961956 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the OED site has gone all multimedia and web 2.1 on me.
< 1292961966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: For every word, there is a sexual definition for it on Urban Dictionary.
< 1292961977 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrong.
< 1292961980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most likely several.
< 1292961996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You know, I had this /terrible/ feeling you were about to say "Wrong." when I said that.
< 1292962013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I decided amending it to s/every/almost every/, but then I decided not to edit my joke just because of you :P
< 1292962032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*considered
< 1292962042 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, OED 'notch': "4. In various /fig./ uses. a. /coarse/ slang. The female genitals."
< 1292962053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Still. :p
< 1292962062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: BTW, does mcmap >foo work with the new IO superplexer?
< 1292962081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (pipe(pipefd) != 0)
< 1292962081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goto no_terminal;
< 1292962082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1292962082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no_terminal:
< 1292962082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return;
< 1292962082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}
< 1292962084 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, without isatty(0) && isatty(1) it should just write into stdout as usual and not start it.
< 1292962087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One would think "return;" might suffice.
< 1292962100 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I was planning to have some sort of initialization done below there.
< 1292962107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But can it support reading from plain stdin?
< 1292962109 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then I couldn't invent anything to initialize.
< 1292962116 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no, it doesn't do that at the moment.
< 1292962121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cuz then we can have RIDICULOUSLY BLOATED BOTS that require Minecraft to be running for no good reason!
< 1292962140 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I can certainly add that.
< 1292962147 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds like a good thing to have!
< 1292962178 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyhoo, also on OED 'notch': "N. Amer. colloq. and regional. to the notch and variants: to the right standard, to perfection, exactly." That can't be right...
< 1292962188 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nice (about getting back)
< 1292962206 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292962250 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"notch effect n. Materials Sci. the increase in the susceptibility of a specimen to fracture caused by the presence of a notch." -- but this could be generalized into some sort of software breakage use.
< 1292962322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Have you got a testing server up on the beta server or something? My computer isn't strong enough to run the server properly, and I'd like to do some mcmap codeine.
< 1292962336 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292962473 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I've just been running it locally, and I don't feel like starting to add port-forwarding rules and all that to open things up.
< 1292962493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Woot, I have a commit on my hands and no way to test it :P
< 1292962519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :console.c:114: error: pointer targets in passing argument 1 of ‘cmd_parse’ differ in signedness
< 1292962519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmd.h:4: note: expected ‘unsigned char *’ but argument is of type ‘char *’
< 1292962521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh please.
< 1292962652 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where are you getting a char * for cmd_parse, anyway?
< 1292962660 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : That can only help one's grade... my grade cannot be helped ← ...how
< 1292962687 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've made it clear that the course is for simpletons and you are failing?
< 1292962711 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or alternatively, what do you need cmd_parse for?
< 1292962712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: readline.
< 1292962717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: And for //foo at the console.
< 1292962722 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It already works.
< 1292962729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Really? Does inject_to_server do It?
< 1292962730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*do it?
< 1292962740 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/fis/mcmap/commit/c336bce1afe12eb80f18bef1686766f4d8f43ee4
< 1292962751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I *think* it works.
< 1292962756 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1292962757 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't actually tried it.
< 1292962771 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I reworked it so that inject_to_server'd packets are processed as if they came from the client.
< 1292962783 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it should be indistinguishable from client-sent chat.
< 1292962790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1292962801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What happens if you do //slap <99 chars>?
< 1292962805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In-game.
< 1292962813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what happens if you type "a" 101 times at the console?
< 1292962820 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You probably will get kicked.
< 1292962827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right ...
< 1292962858 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or actually not at 101, but certainly at 105 or so. It was somewhere around there.
< 1292962871 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either truncating or auto-splitting could be a nice feature.
< 1292962885 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Truncating would be more IRCy. :p
< 1292962894 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Auto-splitting would be more "user-friendly IRC client"y.)
< 1292962916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Alpha server will check the message to see if it begins with a '/'. If it doesn't, the username of the sender is prepended and sent to all other clients (including the original sender). If it does, the server assumes it to be a command and attempts to process it. A message longer than 100 characters will cause the server to kick the client. This limits the chat message packet length to 103 bytes. Note that this limit does not apply to incomi
< 1292962916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ng chat messages as the server may have prepended other information, not limited to, but usually including, a username."
< 1292962929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Infalliprotocollywiki says it's 100.
< 1292962929 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, so it was 103 bytes per packet.
< 1292962992 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it's 100 characters or 100 bytes. Could be either.
< 1292963010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy (but boring) to check.
< 1292963024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey Deewiant, set up a server so I can test things. (I'm just going to bug random people until somebody does.)
< 1292963037 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell me how (I'm on Windows)
< 1292963091 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Run minecraft_server.exe.
< 1292963101 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've seen that mentioned on the download site.)
< 1292963101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What fizzie said.
< 1292963107 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link it.
< 1292963108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Also turn off monsters and PvP, or I'll eat your soul.
< 1292963109 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 100 bytes, not 100 chars.
< 1292963122 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'll put it on "hard".
< 1292963125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: http://minecraft.net/download/Minecraft_Server.exe
< 1292963125 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://minecraft.net/download/Minecraft_Server.exe?v=1292963092965
< 1292963129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: And you can't control the difficulty.
< 1292963132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just monsters and pvp on vs off.
< 1292963140 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, lame.
< 1292963144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think.
< 1292963150 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you're going to be the only person there, how does PvP matter?-)
< 1292963164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Because Deewiant will probably drop in and punch me to death.
< 1292963165 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it seems to be 100 bytes, not 100 characters.
< 1292963170 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292963179 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" works, "äääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääää" kicks me off.
< 1292963187 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have any pvp/monster settings
< 1292963199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes it does.
< 1292963201 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, tar.us.to:25565 may or may not work.
< 1292963206 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the "server.properties" file it generates somewhere.
< 1292963208 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This GUI doesn't, and the help command doesn't list any.
< 1292963213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same directory, I think.
< 1292963234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:26:38 [DIED] main.c: 106: proxy thread (client -> server) write failed
< 1292963238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you just take it down, Deewiant?
< 1292963244 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[INFO] ehird [/91.105.117.134:33325] logged in with entity id 4393
< 1292963245 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[INFO] ehird lost connection: disconnect.overflow
< 1292963251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lolz whats.
< 1292963260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Your mcmap, 'tis insufficient.
< 1292963261 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it happened to fizzie too.
< 1292963263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works now, second connect.
< 1292963272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I got kicked off.
< 1292963279 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I connected, got packet updates for a while, then got dumped.
< 1292963280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without an error thist ime.
< 1292963281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*this time.
< 1292963290 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'tis weird; it works if I connect to localhost.
< 1292963291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Nice beta support :P
< 1292963300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Are you surey ou're on the beat server?
< 1292963300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*beta
< 1292963303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sure you're
< 1292963307 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes.
< 1292963309 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292963315 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, TEST FAST.
< 1292963317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL THIS WORKS
< 1292963318 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-12-21 21:15:44 [INFO] Starting minecraft server version Beta 1.0
< 1292963410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying without mcmap now.
< 1292963435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: EOFException even without mcmap.
< 1292963442 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't know.
< 1292963444 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:27:49 server -> client packet 0xff size 4294967048
< 1292963445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Concludion: ERGO ROUTER FAIL (or server fail or something)
< 1292963448 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's probably not all right.
< 1292963520 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't had problems with any other kinds of servers thus far, so I blame the software.
< 1292963570 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292963571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Considering it works for fizzie, that's a rather odd conclusion. :p
< 1292963581 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it work for fizzie?
< 1292963590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie says it works for fizzie. As in, using a server on localhost.
< 1292963590 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, his server, you meant.
< 1292963594 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's not running it on Windows.
< 1292963613 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Does it say "Beta 1.0" for the version? (Though I don't suppose there are any others yet.)
< 1292963622 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[INFO] Starting minecraft server version Beta 1.0
< 1292963629 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's Java, you know, write once, run anywhere, platform-agnostic.
< 1292963634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Y'could try:
< 1292963634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://minecraft.net/download/minecraft_server.jar?v=1292963598077
< 1292963636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :java -Xmx1024M -Xms1024M -jar minecraft_server.jar nogui
< 1292963653 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I use to start it; though it might be just timing-related things, or worldgen-related things.
< 1292963663 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've written Java software with Windows-only hacks to make stuff work better.
< 1292963681 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you don't understand, write once, run ANYWHERE.
< 1292963687 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've been indoctramotated.)
< 1292963689 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anywho, nogui version running.
< 1292963700 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The noogie version.
< 1292963723 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shrug.
< 1292963726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write everywhere, run once.
< 1292963736 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crash, give up.
< 1292963775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So hey, dem forwarded ports.
< 1292963780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p
< 1292963788 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blonk. Yes, it certainly does seem to break even on a direct connection.
< 1292963796 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Any interesting messages in the server console?
< 1292963807 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This time it printed a few SocketExceptions.
< 1292963817 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :java.net.SocketException: Software caused connection abort: recv failed
< 1292963817 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        at java.net.SocketInputStream.socketRead0(Native Method)
< 1292963824 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :java.net.SocketException: Connection reset by peer: socket write error
< 1292963825 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        at java.net.SocketOutputStream.socketWrite0(Native Method)
< 1292963832 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Between ehird's join and quit
< 1292963880 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=110437 "my friends server has just been updated but me and a few other people are constantly crashing with errors such as: - internal exception: Java.EOFException - minecraft connection lost Internal exception: java.net.socket exception: socket caused connection abort: recv failed"
< 1292963896 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notch Engineering strikes again.
< 1292963905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Notch quality
< 1292963907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*quality.
< 1292963913 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm having exactly the same problem - I've tried on multiple servers, and on both my mac and pc machines - I tried updated java to the latest version, I've tried deleting my MC /bin directory and getting new files downloaded, nothing seems to be working."
< 1292963928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm beginning to hate Java -_-"
< 1292963930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hate the Notch, not the game.
< 1292963944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although hate Java too.
< 1292963946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically just hate.
< 1292964053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Ooh -- "Bad packet id 158".
< 1292964057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ^
< 1292964058 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the server-ip in server.properties an address to bind to or its external IP?
< 1292964064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DESYNCHRONISPORPOISE
< 1292964193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No idea.
< 1292964211 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, -22 C outside
< 1292964249 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who called -10 C or whatever it was "really fucking cold" last week or so?
< 1292964253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq i think
< 1292964254 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much snow?
< 1292964270 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, it snowed a lot yesterday and the day before that
< 1292964278 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but it rarely snow when THIS cold
< 1292964279 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cm-depth
< 1292964310 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, snow blower used yesterday, hasn't snowed since then. So about 1 cm where it was used. Almost 2 meters in other places
< 1292964326 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hard to tell what it actually is since it tends to blow up against walls around here
< 1292964329 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you have weather services?
< 1292964345 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you mean, the weather services us with a lot of snow? ;P
< 1292964356 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, sure, there is SMHI
< 1292964357 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean that snow depth is a well-defined value :-P
< 1292964365 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That they should report
< 1292964370 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and I don't know where to find it on there
< 1292964451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isthesnowdepthinswedentodayreallyfuckingdeep.com: "YES"
< 1292964457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's your value.
< 1292964486 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, at least over a meter I'd say
< 1292964491 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't find official values
< 1292964531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The command-output-appears-as-CHAT is a regression.
< 1292964539 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292964542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's all neon-coloured and unreadable now for those of us with lightbulb terminals.
< 1292964561 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no one uses those anyway
< 1292964563 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a feature
< 1292964563 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Use http://www.smhi.se/vadret/vadret-i-sverige/snodjup
< 1292964564 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a bug
< 1292964581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I use one, and I'm the only person who isn't fizzie who's contributed code, so there.
< 1292964602 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't the same apply for server-sent yellow messages?
< 1292964612 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, closest observation is 32, but it is not very near
< 1292964620 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and due to wind it is much deeper locally
< 1292964641 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's more harmonically harmonious when it does the same color-thing it does for all; there's the no-color option already, anyway.
< 1292964645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, but that's "less" problematic.
< 1292964653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mind the colours, I just don't like command output to be arbitrarily coloured.
< 1292964660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, easy fix, force bg to black
< 1292964663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only reason they're coloured in the client is because there's no other good way to indicate.
< 1292964671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the console, there's [INFO] vs [CHAT] to indicate.
< 1292964680 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, make it an option
< 1292964683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Especially considering that the coords response isn't chat by any reasonable definition of CHAT.)
< 1292964683 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292964683 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer coloured
< 1292964692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm talking to fizzie, not you.
< 1292964696 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, calling it a regression is just wrong
< 1292964711 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's chat by the definition that "it's something sent to the client as chat".
< 1292964728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, yes, but //coords is more info generated by mcmap than chat.
< 1292964737 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it makes //command and /command outputs work exactly the same.
< 1292964747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I mean, this way, /mode changes/ come out as [CHAT]... which is just weird.
< 1292964762 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't want mode changes to be reported to the client chat, anyway. :p
< 1292964768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, -c is broken.
< 1292964771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> //coords
< 1292964771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:52:11 [CHAT] §b//coords: x=-601, z=-16, y=68
< 1292964791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, ^D is broken too, I'll fix that.
< 1292964793 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I didn't want mode changes to be reported to the client chat, anyway. :p <-- nor me
< 1292964798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any special way to restore the terminal or is it atexited?
< 1292964830 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :console_cleanup() does the readline term-deprep if readline has been initialized.
< 1292964839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What about closing sockets and stuff?
< 1292964865 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did you want ^D to do?
< 1292964886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Quit; but I've already made it do that.
< 1292964886 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to exit, just exit; the cleanup is also atexit'd.
< 1292964889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK.
< 1292964912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, 'tis worky.
< 1292964932 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And right, the nocolor-mode doesn't actually parse the color codes at all. I guess it would be better if it did but just didn't print the escape codes.
< 1292964935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm going to let it send blank messages 'cuz that's totally useful. (If that's okay.)
< 1292964942 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292964952 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's possible, sure.
< 1292964964 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't tried a zero-length string chat message.
< 1292964965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, yes.
< 1292964989 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if the server doesn't mind getting those, by all means make it possible to send those too.
< 1292965001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering I've sent many before, yes. :P
< 1292965026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>
< 1292965027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:56:29 [CHAT]  !
< 1292965027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>
< 1292965027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:56:30 [CHAT]  !
< 1292965027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>
< 1292965030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they show as blank in Minecraft.
< 1292965039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think there's a printing code bug.
< 1292965048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ! might be printing 1 char of an uninitialised buffer.
< 1292965049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe.
< 1292965060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't print ! before you rewrote the console code, so.
< 1292965083 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1292965098 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can take a look at that if you want.
< 1292965108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's possibly something to look at.
< 1292965111 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you push the empty-message sending version.
< 1292965123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing so.
< 1292965165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Done
< 1292965167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Done.
< 1292965171 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okkay.
< 1292965187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okkkkkkkkay.
< 1292965256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hmm. Should I make debug=1 builds go into a debug/ directory? I think I keep accidentally mixing -g and -O3 objects.
< 1292965263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or I could just make debug=1 be the default.
< 1292965270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*default.)
< 1292965278 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it a good idea to give each configuration its own output directory
< 1292965315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm
< 1292965335 0 :Goosey!~IceChat77@99-60-156-25.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292965342 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know of a good high traffick image hosting site?
< 1292965356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: lemonparty.org
< 1292965364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It hosts an image and it's high-traffic.
< 1292965375 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No
< 1292965378 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going there
< 1292965381 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you bastard
< 1292965393 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice try though
< 1292965429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Got any nicer target directory names than _debug and _build? :p (Underscores to allow mental filtering-out in directory listings.)
< 1292965503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I am slowly -- but steadily -- leading mcmap onto the path of Java EE.)
< 1292965513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I plan to port useful.make to Ant in a few days.)
< 1292965524 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aieee!
< 1292965542 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to ... ant?
< 1292965560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yes. But it will also require Maven.
< 1292965567 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maven?
< 1292965577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You really don't want to know.
< 1292965589 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually I do
< 1292965598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Maven#Example
< 1292965599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun.
< 1292965602 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't be worse than ant
< 1292965609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but it's close.
< 1292965619 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waits for browser to load

< 1292965619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, those XML files get WAY more enterprisey and generic and bloated for even simple projects.
< 1292965638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p.s. http://i.imgur.com/T1cao.jpg
< 1292965644 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, different course
< 1292965649 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292965658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I was unaware your college offered non-moronic courses?
< 1292965675 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I presume maven still doesn't do proper dependency handling
< 1292965692 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The course I'm failing seems to be decent, except for problems that are my problems and not the course's
< 1292965698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Fucked if I know.
< 1292965705 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Bugfixed the no-color mode: https://github.com/fis/mcmap/commit/188d632 (and that's actually your bug; it used to be a fwrite(msg, 1, msglen, stdout); and you log_print'ified it even though obviously (for some values of...) msg might not be null-terminated. (Otherwise I wouldn't have had a msglen parameter.)
< 1292965720 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, the optional final course is a chemistry course, a bit moronic, but I'm not failing it
< 1292965755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, uh, your mother.
< 1292965777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: And no, you didn't quite bugfix it in that it still spews colour codes :P
< 1292965787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah.
< 1292965826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact I'll fix thatn ow.
< 1292965830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that now.
< 1292965844 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, make it an option!
< 1292965848 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292965854 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I do like the colour codes btw.
< 1292965864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You like it spewing colour codes when colour is off?
< 1292965865 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes output easier to read
< 1292965876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Please stop pinging me about mcmap.
< 1292965877 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh, hm. If it is turned off ...
< 1292965882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The no bitching policy applies.
< 1292965886 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, well, yes. It might be best that you just use the color-code parsing routine always, and nocolor-test away the escape-code outputs.
< 1292965890 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not to you, only to fizzie
< 1292965895 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I never agreed it to you
< 1292965921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Stop pinging me to whine about mcmap.
< 1292965983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Pushed what "might" be a fix; untested due to lack of server that'll stay up long enough to check.
< 1292966024 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The humans are dead
< 1292966069 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why
< 1292966078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because I said so.
< 1292966082 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, local server?
< 1292966094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough processing power to run Minecraft, the server, and mcmap at the same time.
< 1292966105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, not without waiting a minute for it to stabilise.
< 1292966112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Probably.)
< 1292966120 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh, mcmap is not heavy. So run server on one computer, client and mcmap on another
< 1292966122 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem solved
< 1292966129 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I /know/ you have an imac too
< 1292966129 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1292966132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I do not have reasonable access to another computer.
< 1292966140 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so where is the imac?
< 1292966142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The iMac is in a box and there's no free sockets here that I know of.
< 1292966147 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292966148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My router also only has one Ethernet port.
< 1292966155 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wireless?
< 1292966159 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why the fix wouldn't work; and I've put in quite a lot of untested code.
< 1292966165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Or I could just push without testing, like Notch.
< 1292966170 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah
< 1292966173 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And like me!
< 1292966177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mcmap: at least as stable as the game itself!
< 1292966196 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I haven't sold a million copies of mcmap and made them auto-update. :p
< 1292966200 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when will ineiros update the server
< 1292966208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: When hMod updates and he's sufficiently drunk.
< 1292966215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Obviously one can only upgrade servers when inebriated.)
< 1292966221 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can take care of the latter, but I don't know how to speed up the former.
< 1292966237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Get hey0 drunk too?
< 1292966292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So, do you want to have some fun by looking into my GNU Make metaprogramming bug?
< 1292966308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would make "make clean all" SLIGHTLY more convenient for all mcmap users!
< 1292966430 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nnnnot right now.
< 1292966480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define c-program-body
< 1292966480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to-install += $(1)
< 1292966480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to-clean += $(1) $(2:.c=.o) $(2:.c=.d)
< 1292966480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(objdir)/$(1): $(2:%.c=$(objdir)/%.o) Makefile | $(objdir) ; \
< 1292966480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(call do,LINK,$(objdir)/$(1),$(cc.link) -o $(objdir)/$(1) \
< 1292966481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(2:%.c=$(objdir)/%.o))
< 1292966482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(if $(cleaning),,-include $(2:%.c=$(objdir)/%.d))
< 1292966484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endef
< 1292966486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: HOW CAN YOU NOT WANT TO DEBUG THINGS LIKE THAT
< 1292966819 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292966864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pushes

< 1292966882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I think the build system "vaguely" complete now.
< 1292966904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being able to set objdir in a less hacky manner in the Makefile should be possible (need to figure out how to handle that in useful.make), and an install target would be useful, but it's pretty good.
< 1292966933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although you have to do "make clean debug=1" for it to clean a debug build properly. Although that might be the Right Thing.
< 1292967089 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292967265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. Lua lets you drop parens for single-argument functions.
< 1292967268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, seemingly.
< 1292967275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, only for string and list literals? What.
< 1292967712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :changequote(` ',`
< 1292967713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :')
< 1292967714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHAHA M
< 1292967715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*M4
< 1292967738 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1292967943 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what're you doing m4 for?
< 1292967949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No reason whatsoever.
< 1292968019 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292968066 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292968173 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I motion that m4 be made an honourary esolang.
< 1292968186 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292968210 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All in favour?
< 1292968326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It always has been.
< 1292968500 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not OFFICIALLY!
< 1292968533 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That reminds me, I still have to send a message to Fidelity
< 1292968642 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what are the properties of the entity you call Fidelity?
< 1292968673 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, possibly having possession of materials related to BancSTAR
< 1292968698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Wait, it's a *person*?
< 1292968699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Called Fidelity?
< 1292968712 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are *people* called Fidelity?
< 1292968713 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, I implied it's a person?
< 1292968725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Okay, so you didn't.
< 1292968734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh it's that!
< 1292968738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You realise a corporation would prefer to forget bancstar ever existed right?
< 1292968739 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I assume he assumed it was Alluded To Female.
< 1292968755 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh. female names like that were once common (not that specific attribute)
< 1292968772 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are people called Faith and Hope
< 1292968777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well yes, but it's also 2010 here.
< 1292968783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... Fidelity?
< 1292968783 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, in direct violation of Hoover's Naming Law.
< 1292968791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Faith and Hope I can kind of understand, even though they're terrible names.
< 1292968792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fidelity??
< 1292968802 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think Honesty also happened
< 1292968825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think this is God's way of telling us that he likes eugenics.
< 1292968859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was that Python-y-syntaxed language that was on the level of C?
< 1292968866 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cython?
< 1292968867 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Felicity". If you EVER have the urge to call a child "Fidelity", at least extend that kindness to it.
< 1292968880 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the think like Vala but with Pythony syntax1
< 1292968882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No.
< 1292968883 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!
< 1292968883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unrelated to Python.
< 1292968887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, not that either (Genie).
< 1292968899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The homepage had a screenshot of some mandelbrot program written in it, I think.
< 1292968906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Low-fi site, IIRC it had no CSS.
< 1292968928 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, Felicia Day?
< 1292968947 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what?
< 1292968960 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Felicity" kind of sounds like "Felicia"
< 1292968965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1292968983 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, and "Seth" sounds a bit like "Zath".
< 1292968988 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a voiced "th".
< 1292968989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which sounds a bit like Zach.
< 1292968992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which sounds a bit like Exactly.
< 1292968996 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE CALLED NOW.
< 1292968996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which sounds a bit like Eggsactly.
< 1292969001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which sounds a bit like eggs.
< 1292969003 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been called Zach before
< 1292969005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which are OVARIES.
< 1292969010 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292969011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I'm saying is, Sgeo is ovaries.
< 1292969020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Via logic.
< 1292969021 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott sounds a bit like "Elliot" which sounds a bit like "Eliott".
< 1292969033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I will make your intestines into a stew.
< 1292969034 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D.
< 1292969051 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sorry, is that sound a ł rather than an l?
< 1292969070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292969074 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Thou‑Shalt‑Not‑Commit‑Adultery Pulsifer?" he said, when she'd finished.
< 1292969075 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"That sort of name was quite common in those days," said Anath­ema. "Apparently there were ten children and they were a very religious family. There was Covetousness Pulsifer, False‑Witness Pulsifer‑"
< 1292969075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, I didn't realise that the Soviety government owned Tetris. :)
< 1292969101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Suffer-The-Little-Children-Onto-Me Jones.
< 1292969117 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fun fact: my real name has an "mhn" in it!
< 1292969126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Phantomhn Hoover?
< 1292969135 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the principle!
< 1292969152 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantomhnoover
< 1292969160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't think I ever want to know your real name, you're just Phantom to me.
< 1292969165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be weird.
< 1292969170 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phamhntom_Hoover
< 1292969188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :J_Edgar_Hoover
< 1292969193 0 :J_Edgar_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover: BROTHER.
< 1292969237 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, good omens?
< 1292969237 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292969241 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes.
< 1292969247 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, you need to *ask*?
< 1292969261 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how can you quote books in about 30 seconds?
< 1292969262 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, yes, well, it was some time ago I read it
< 1292969274 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Pyramids is underquoted
< 1292969278 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's just me
< 1292969278 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely you don't have a library a metre to your left.
< 1292969280 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover: It's this thing called computers, they can sort and search data pretty fast!
< 1292969295 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but did you know that putting books on computers is PIRACY?
< 1292969327 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, I love weird little phonemes that appear in about 2 languages.
< 1292969329 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/datasets ← the worst pirates of them all.
< 1292969345 0 :J_Edgar_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gyaah, I like Pyramids but I don't want to support Vorpal by quoting it.
< 1292969358 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_labiodental_plosive
< 1292969365 0 :J_Edgar_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Von Labiodental.
< 1292969371 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't used in _a single language_.
< 1292969377 0 :J_Edgar_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's used in TWENTY!"
< 1292969385 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It turns up occasionally in two.
< 1292969403 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover: NameDB (which is pretty small, only 30000 names) says there's two "mhn"-containing names, Adhamhnan (Irish-Gaelic, "little Adam") and Domhnall (Scots-Gaelic, "ruler of the earth").
< 1292969418 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no comment.
< 1292969419 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Edgar_Hoover, take for instance this stunned seagull (note: quoting from memory, YMMV)
< 1292969436 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naming someone "ruler of the earth" sounds a bit... suspicious.
< 1292969444 0 :J_Edgar_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover: Didn't you say it started with A?
< 1292969448 0 :J_Edgar_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is that my bad memory?
< 1292969450 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Edgar_Hoover, no comment.
< 1292969457 0 :J_Edgar_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Adhamhnan
< 1292969468 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does /usr/share/words contain person names?
< 1292969473 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Frankly, we should be catching these people earlier. I mean, if you have a kid named 'Death-tron' enrolled in school..."
< 1292969475 0 :Adhamhnan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suspiciously close to "Saddam", I might add.
< 1292969476 0 :Adhamhnan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in HUSSEIN.
< 1292969491 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, yes, that's what takes up all your disk space!
< 1292969493 0 :Adhamhnan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Source?
< 1292969498 0 :Adhamhnan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Googling just showed one archived TV Tropes discussion page. :p
< 1292969511 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adhamhnan: That Ozy and Millie webcomic, though I located that quote from the aforementioned tvtropes discussion page.
< 1292969524 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last time I was reminded of it I actually bothered to find the actual strip too.
< 1292969540 0 :Adhamhnan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"    In other news, Penguin Classics has decided not to publish all the commas removed from Humboldt’s Gift by Mr. Bellow while he was originally revising the manuscript."
< 1292969541 0 :Adhamhnan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wat.
< 1292969543 0 :Adhamhnan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*"In
< 1292969563 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O
< 1292969573 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adhamhnan, it's cited to Ozy and Millie, so the original source will be a PNG.
< 1292969586 0 :Adhamhnan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover: Right. Unless someone goes and transcribes them all.
< 1292969587 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The template I made is #411 on most transcluded templates
< 1292969589 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ozyandmillie.org/d/20040603.html
< 1292969593 0 :Adhamhnan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S THEORETICALLY POSSIBLE
< 1292969597 0 :Adhamhnan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Ego ego ego.
< 1292969611 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Jesus.
< 1292969618 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How the hell did you do that?
< 1292969619 0 :Adhamhnan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie is Jesus.
< 1292969624 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adhamhnan, you reminded me of it recently
< 1292969626 0 :Adhamhnan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He just flipped through every comic, sequentially, until he found that one.
< 1292969630 0 :Adhamhnan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With his cyborg mind.
< 1292969632 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover: That's nothing strange: it's in a published book, and Google books search finds things inside the speech bubbles.
< 1292969635 0 :Adhamhnan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Jesus is a cyborg.)
< 1292969640 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I KNEW IT
< 1292969641 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, O.o
< 1292969644 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?tbs=bks%3A1&tbo=1&q=ozy+and+millie+%22death-tron%22&btnG=Search+Books
< 1292969645 0 :Adhamhnan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ...I love you.
< 1292969650 0 :Adhamhnan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot ever imagine thinking,
< 1292969656 0 :Adhamhnan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh! I remember! They published those comics in a book."
< 1292969660 0 :Adhamhnan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hmm... Google transcribe books..."
< 1292969663 0 :Adhamhnan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To Google Book Search!"
< 1292969666 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It even highlights the word inside the bubble.
< 1292969673 0 :Adhamhnan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Aha, there it is... now what comic number is it... there we GO..."
< 1292969676 0 :Adhamhnan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"...aaaaand link it."
< 1292969678 0 :Adhamhnan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In, what, seconds.
< 1292969713 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the book name says it's 2004, and after seeing it in context, I remembered the whole sequence was about eradicating evil, so that was just "/evil" in the 2004 archive.
< 1292969715 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292969740 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: equality of functors is annoying.....
< 1292969740 0 :Adhamhnan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Do you have anything, you know, useful in your brain? :p
< 1292969743 0 :Adhamhnan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not that I do.)
< 1292969749 0 :Adhamhnan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: isn't it just equality of functions?
< 1292969752 0 :Adhamhnan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, admittedly, just as annoying
< 1292969756 0 :Adhamhnan!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliott
< 1292969787 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you just have simple functions f,g : X -> Y then f = g is forall x, f x = g x.
< 1292969800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right... are the functors more complex?
< 1292969802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, they are, aren't they
< 1292969819 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let C,D be categories and F,G : C -> D functors. Then we need to say that forall X, FX=GX and only then can we even state that for all f : X -> Y, Ff = Gf
< 1292969831 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because Ff and Gf have different types (unless FX=GX and FY=GY)
< 1292969841 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Coq does not like that...
< 1292969879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: you could do it in the same way as subtypes? maybe?
< 1292969891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: except, just use a bijection
< 1292969895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i.e. make it Ff <==> Gf
< 1292969901 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I don't know about subtypes
< 1292969903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where <==> is just a function bijection
< 1292969909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well by subtypes i just mean like...
< 1292969912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah just go for a bijection?
< 1292969921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall f:X->Y, Ff <===> Gf
< 1292969928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where <===> is just two functions, both ways
< 1292969932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a proof of equality
< 1292969936 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover: Incidentally, I think it's done with OCR, and it's not especially good, since the regular-google excerpt text contains "HAVE ft WD NAMED DEATH-TRON", so it's gotten the "A KID" part wrong.
< 1292969937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. to (fro x) = x and fro (to x) = x
< 1292969973 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can sort of see A → ft, but W → KI is a bit less believable.
< 1292969994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh
< 1292969995 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the other way around.
< 1292969996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Heh.
< 1292969999 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION laments the lack of names equivalent to "dark lord".

< 1292970029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover: "Phantom Hoover".
< 1292970107 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: line 306 of http://coq.pastebin.com/hRgqWQ6H - same thing as before except with SET now
< 1292970142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: looks pretty good to me? I might be missing something
< 1292970154 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OCaml: worth learning?
< 1292970170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover: Maybe.
< 1292970181 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worse than Haskell?
< 1292970182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover: It's like Haskell but impure, strict and unsafe. Also very, very, very, very, very, very fast.
< 1292970188 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a type error "Hom' (MapOb C D G X) (MapOb C D G Y)" while it is expected to have type "Hom' (MapOb C D F X) (MapOb C D F Y)".
< 1292970188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Competitive with C.
< 1292970194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: ahh
< 1292970195 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we know that GX = FX...
< 1292970204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: you need to do equality elimination?
< 1292970205 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, speed is for the weak!
< 1292970209 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292970215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: like make it H and prove FX=HX and GX=HX
< 1292970225 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might just start fresh and see if I can set things with this in mind
< 1292970346 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if A=B means we have a map A-->B
< 1292970371 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292970377 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more "use A or B, doesn't matter"
< 1292970396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: well yeah, but you can say A<=>B instead of A=B if coq doesn't like A=B
< 1292970397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's the same
< 1292970404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(obviously you have to define <=>)
< 1292970414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, "the same"
< 1292970421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every set of the same cardinality is equal by that definition
< 1292970422 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We paid for a product, whether it was finished or not, and we as customers deserve to have a working product. Therefore using us as guinea pigs throwing nonfunctional code at us is not right." Yet another way to solve any sort of an energy crisis would be to figure out a way to extract energy from all this indignation.
< 1292970439 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be too relaxed?
< 1292970455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: maybe ... but it'll definitely work
< 1292970461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: and i personally think sets with the same cardinality *are* the same :)
< 1292970477 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phamhntom_Hoover: It's like Haskell but impure, strict and unsafe. Also very, very, very, very, very, very fast. ← so wait, it doesn't have the nice bits of Haskell but is faster?
< 1292970480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: At the same time, anyone complaining about a bug in ANY WAY and saying that Minecraft isn't tested at all gets told "lol UR the tester".
< 1292970488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Which is just silly.
< 1292970493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover: It's still a functional language.
< 1292970541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know that Python-ish C-level language? I distinctly recall it ...
< 1292970656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww man, you were able to store things in your 2x2 inventory crafting area until the beta update.
< 1292970658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know that.
< 1292970697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The super-rare thing is just a single person's special outfit.
< 1292970712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "The downside of the mojang cape is that everyone thinks it's an item and therefore they can kill me to receive one" --C41813981398189.
< 1292970715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think we have a duty here.
< 1292970732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[["The mojang cape is [...] an item and therefore they can kill me to receive one" --/r/Minecraft; hopefully intentional.)
< 1292970735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*("
< 1292970747 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, clevur.
< 1292970782 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But wasn't the cape thing already mentioned in the same list as the "even more rare" thing?
< 1292970798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Jeb doth beggeth to differ; http://i.imgur.com/XJDhN.png
< 1292970822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest we track Notch down and brutally murder him, repeatedly, in a futile attempt to get the cape.
< 1292970830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just because DAMMIT NOTCH.
< 1292970837 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then what?
< 1292970842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover: Then we kill him some more.
< 1292970844 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, okay; so it's a single-person special thing in addition to the cape.
< 1292970851 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are we suggesting to kill notch?
< 1292970852 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who else will be masochistic enough to develop his code further?
< 1292970858 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey, because he's an IDIOT.
< 1292970866 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than that
< 1292970872 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because CAPE.
< 1292970892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: Because god dammit Notch.
< 1292970897 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1292970916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is for a bug. And this is for another bug! And we'll be here until Saturday!
< 1292970968 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of Minecraft
< 1292970973 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so fucking laggy
< 1292970989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: Yes, it's because of DEAF LECAY.
< 1292970991 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can play crysis, but not minecraft?
< 1292970992 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "This is for a bug! This is for the 43 bugs and 3 "fixes" of entertaining aspects of gameplay you removed in the bugfix!"
< 1292971002 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if i delete all the trees in an area....:D
< 1292971004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover: This is because you're Swedish!
< 1292971012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is just because I hate you!
< 1292971022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://twitter.com/Ridder_Graniet/status/17306802005741569 http://twitter.com/notch/status/17306923489566720
< 1292971037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Notch could be the ultimate troll if he wanted to be.
< 1292971038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How hilarious would it be if he made one more release which was incredibly and purposefully broken and then retired from Minecraft."
< 1292971048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't he already making releases that are incredibly and purposefully broken?
< 1292971049 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd do it
< 1292971055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of any other explanation for the bugs.
< 1292971066 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" please make that minecraft can handle ä,ü and ö" " coming tomorrow, I fixed it before I left work today" -- I didn't even know they were broken.
< 1292971068 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to block the patch updater and run old minecraft :/
< 1292971075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/SQhzh.png What.
< 1292971080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: good luck using SMP
< 1292971081 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because Notch does not actually understand coding.
< 1292971087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover: http://i.imgur.com/SQhzh.png Indeed.
< 1292971103 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't play smp much
< 1292971104 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too broken
< 1292971116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover: LOL DUPLICATION.
< 1292971119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Every time you throw a tool, two or more of that same tool are thrown. Each of those, when picked up, can also duplicate when thrown.
< 1292971119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you die, every tool you have is thrown, and is subject to the same duplication.
< 1292971119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best part is is that duplicated tools are unusable. The server detects them as duplicates, and thus are immediately destroyed after one use. Add this to the few PKers that camp the spawn point and you get tools everywhere."
< 1292971125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL SMP
< 1292971127 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still eludes me why anyone would decide to have two completely separate lumps of code for single- and multiplayer/
< 1292971133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: SMP isn't all that buggy if you disable the survival part.
< 1292971135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. health.
< 1292971144 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's *obvious* that SP is just a special case of MP.
< 1292971151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/GNrcO.jpg MY SOULMATE
< 1292971190 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, inventory
< 1292971192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Beta, taking everything working in alpha and breaking it, and then adding leaf decay."
< 1292971193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You can either have leaf decay or everything else, make up your minds."
< 1292971205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: Well, it's server-side now. So duplication is broken. :p
< 1292971209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It was a feature!)
< 1292971212 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idc about leaf decay
< 1292971216 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not playing MC until Notch fixes things to ineiros' high standards.
< 1292971218 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: "The downside of the mojang cape is that everyone thinks it's an item and therefore they can kill me to receive one" --C41813981398189. <-- hah
< 1292971226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is complete anarchy in there right now...
< 1292971227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The laws of physics don't even apply. I got in a boat and sank through the ground."
< 1292971232 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd still like to know if adding 360*24*60*60*1000 to the value in ~/.minecraft/bin/version will automagically block the updating functionality (for the next year) without disabling the logging-in thing.
< 1292971244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cough*
< 1292971253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turning and turning in the widening gyre
< 1292971254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
< 1292971254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
< 1292971254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
< 1292971254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
< 1292971254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
< 1292971256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best lack all conviction, while the worst
< 1292971258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are full of passionate intensity.
< 1292971263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't you know that was about the Minecraft beta?
< 1292971290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And not a single fuck was given that day.)
< 1292971300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"on one server I got in a boat, which forced me out of the server from some java socket error. then when I came back both me and the boat were still there. then the boat left my clone sitting in the air and decided to repeatedly smash itself into a stone wall. this all took place in my mine."
< 1292971314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"on one server I got in a boat, which forced me out of the server from some java socket error. then when I came back both me and the boat were still there. then the boat left my clone sitting in the air and decided to repeatedly smash itself into a stone wall. this all took place in my mine."
< 1292971316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1292971318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Inaccurate. That JPEG has a much better framerate than Minecraft on Windows 7 64 currently.{I used to get 30-40 in Alpha on Far}"
< 1292971319 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292971325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 FPS, fuck yeah.
< 1292971349 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  I can play crysis, but not minecraft?
< 1292971360 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :252)  I can play crysis, but not minecraft?
< 1292971381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm not playing MC until Notch fixes things to ineiros' high standards.
< 1292971387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe we should just get the hellworld out again.
< 1292971395 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I used to get 150-160 :/
< 1292971399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU WANT CHAOS?! I'LL GIVE YOU CHAOS!!
< 1292971401 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I get 10-15 at best
< 1292971423 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly
< 1292971427 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I think of the source for minecraft
< 1292971433 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If MC were any less fun to play, I wouldn't be playing it until Notch left and Donald Knuth rewrote it from scratch.
< 1292971444 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't help but think how terribly obfuscated and inefficient it is
< 1292971445 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they should just get rid of Minecraft. If more people want it someone can make using GNU GPL v3 or later version, with different people, might improve slightly.
< 1292971455 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably looks like rat shit
< 1292971458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: I don't think anyone's actually analysed the performance.
< 1292971458 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey, the best part is that Notch is going to RELEASE it!
< 1292971466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  Maybe they should just get rid of Minecraft. If more people want it someone can make using GNU GPL v3 or later version, with different people, might improve slightly.
< 1292971466 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once everyone's stopped buying.
< 1292971467 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :253)  Maybe they should just get rid of Minecraft. If more people want it someone can make using GNU GPL v3 or later version, with different people, might improve slightly.
< 1292971483 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, given the state of beta, I would estimate to be in about 3 weeks.
< 1292971498 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'd still like to know if adding 360*24*60*60*1000 to the value in ~/.minecraft/bin/version will automagically block the updating functionality (for the next year) without disabling the logging-in thing. <--- does that work?
< 1292971498 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbTEVbQLC8s
< 1292971503 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for now I mean
< 1292971506 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal
< 1292971507 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try
< 1292971515 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292971516 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If I knew, I wouldn't have to wonder.
< 1292971538 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a copy of the old version
< 1292971538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You could just try, with an old backup.
< 1292971540 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling it won't, since it'd be so easy I'd have seen it on the forumlons.
< 1292971540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have one.
< 1292971553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: If you mean minecraftforum, um, the average IQ is something like "duck" there.
< 1292971573 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loaded flatgrass
< 1292971574 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no lag
< 1292971577 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid trees
< 1292971577 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I have gotten the updates when I've just copied the minecraft.jar in place and left the new-version "version" file in place, so I think it does check the .jar files too, but that's just me.
< 1292971586 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BURN THE TREES.
< 1292971592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbTEVbQLC8s
< 1292971595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this terrible thing
< 1292971620 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, come on do the Qt 4 dance!
< 1292971623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtfo
< 1292971635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Why hasn't someone modded the client to say to the server, "oh ho, yes, yes, I am version 34589734589345 and my hash is bork"?
< 1292971636 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, go download Oolite and play it for a while. It should stop you talking for a while.
< 1292971637 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey, so did changing that version actually work?
< 1292971643 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants there to be a GTK+ dance

< 1292971645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's _possible_, by definition, anyway.
< 1292971694 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe someone has; I haven't tried to find out a way to play with the old version (and still participate in the authentication stuff) very hard.
< 1292971739 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, nope :/
< 1292971795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does *nobody* know of that language?
< 1292971881 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which language?
< 1292971905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It had a Python-y syntax but was about as low level as C. *Not* related to Python like Cython is or anything.
< 1292971919 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you tell us anything more about it?
< 1292971924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite barebones web page; I think it had no CSS or something although IIRC there was a screenshot on the left or right with some mandelbrot written in it running... I think with a tiling WM, unantialiased X fonts?
< 1292971926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Nope, I don't recall much.
< 1292971929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was on reddit once, I think.
< 1292971932 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, vala?
< 1292971932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not very helpful. :p
< 1292971934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No.
< 1292971938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Vala isn't Python-like at all.
< 1292971944 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay
< 1292971946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genie, which is Vala's alternative "frontend", is, but no.
< 1292971953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It had indentation-based syntax etc.
< 1292971970 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no clue
< 1292971974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr
< 1292971977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Grr.
< 1292971979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p
< 1292971991 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :The closer you are to the batsman, the sillier you are. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1292971995 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, only indention based languages I know of are: python, haskell, make
< 1292972008 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, only ones I can remember atm
< 1292972018 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, was it mentioned in here?
< 1292972018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It wasn't a well-known thing.
< 1292972023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I linked it ... maybe.
< 1292972023 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if so you could grep the logs
< 1292972035 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm stumped.
< 1292972047 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try to look at the MSE codes to learn some things that I might or might not use to make TeXnicard.
< 1292972056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: My arms are a bloody stump.
< 1292972136 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing that might be very likely to block the updates would be just to rewrite the "version" field of the response the launcher gets for "http://www.minecraft.net/game/getversion.jsp?..." (with a transparent-Squid and a script or whatever) to whatever you have; that way the launcher just won't try to download new packages, but it will still use the has-logged-in session ID for server connections. (Of course assumes the server is old enough to speak the same
< 1292972136 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :protocol.)
< 1292972157 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, oolite looks... primitive?
< 1292972172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minecraft looks... primitive?
< 1292972175 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, heck, even vegastrike has better graphics
< 1292972185 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fair enough, but in a different way
< 1292972189 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, elliott, I was going to say the same
< 1292972194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oolite is an Elite clone.
< 1292972195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So.
< 1292972199 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm okay
< 1292972216 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And to that you would have responded with indignation
< 1292972217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If it looks better than http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c4/BBC_Micro_Elite_screenshot.png, it's doing it right. :p
< 1292972218 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea: induction on syntax
< 1292972231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: to implement a compiler?
< 1292972244 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, well, there are expansion packs with extremely advanced graphics.
< 1292972244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or interpreter, whatever
< 1292972249 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for equality of functors
< 1292972260 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much so that I cannot use them since they break my graphics card.
< 1292972261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: ah
< 1292972291 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, ever played EV override?
< 1292972295 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, you might love it
< 1292972296 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1292972299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oolite_%28video_game%29#Critical_reception_and_reviews Rather well-praised.
< 1292972313 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to say I like it, but I got Vegastrike's interstellar movement stuck in my head. The idea of being fast when little gravity is acting on you, and slowing down near large masses
< 1292972334 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, classic mac, doesn't run under sheepshaver. So you need a real classic mac for it. Or an ppc mac os x with classic emulation
< 1292972337 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, how utterly silly.
< 1292972341 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a*
< 1292972357 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, Oolite is cross-platform in a beautifully hideous way!
< 1292972373 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, right, ev override was shareware
< 1292972387 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, ambrosia software (I presume you heard about it)
< 1292972411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.27:18:53:21  ===> Checking for vulnerabilities in python26-2.6.6nb2
< 1292972411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.27:18:53:21  Package python26-2.6.6nb2 has a denial-of-service vulnerability, see http://secunia.com/advisories/41279/
< 1292972411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.27:18:53:32  same for python25
< 1292972411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.27:18:53:38  i guess i could try python24
< 1292972422 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses Objective-C and the original Mac version was very OS X dependent, so all ports use the GNUstep libraries!
< 1292972424 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, looks like freebsd
< 1292972428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: NetBSD
< 1292972432 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah
< 1292972434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/NetBSD/Big Brother/
< 1292972438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Big Brother/Friend Computer/
< 1292972443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Friend Computer/NO YOU CAN'T INSTALL PYTHON/
< 1292972477 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ambrosia software is right up there along with spiderweb software amongst "cool sharware companies")
< 1292972481 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, don't you agree?
< 1292972487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe.
< 1292972487 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, see http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Griff_Industries for the ultra-cool OpenGL my-computer-breakery.
< 1292972489 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292972500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ambrosia soured me a bit.
< 1292972517 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how so?
< 1292972525 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 Microsoft Allegiance
< 1292972528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have this audio tool that lets you multiplex/redirect/etc. audio streams that I used to be able to record what's coming out of the sound and save it; except that its
< 1292972541 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its?
< 1292972550 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate day/night cycle
< 1292972551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"trial period is over" mode was to randomly say "Hey, this is not registered, I am a generic female voice" (well, not /exactly/ that) over your recordings.
< 1292972551 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, stop doing mc cutting on irc!
< 1292972557 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I JUST WANT TO BUILD DAMNIT
< 1292972560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very irritating.
< 1292972580 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ev override had unusual trial period over stuff too
< 1292972585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: btw http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiwinia
< 1292972591 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heard about it
< 1292972607 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 Introversion
< 1292972610 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh and introversion is also right up there among cool companies
< 1292972621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Introversion is *the* coolest company.
< 1292972629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One disc has Windows/Mac/Linux binaries, and is the only disc sold.
< 1292972634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another disc has the freaking SOURCE CODE.
< 1292972639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they allow mods to be redistributed.
< 1292972643 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or I could just add another axiom to Category
< 1292972659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can *buy a disc with the source code on* and *redistribute your modifications, even as binaries*.
< 1292972662 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, I rather disliked Uplink. Loved the music, not so much the game
< 1292972669 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, I only tried the trial version
< 1292972672 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Darwinia better?
< 1292972674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The game is awesome.
< 1292972678 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, that is because, as has been established, you have terrible taste.
< 1292972685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darwinia I haven't played due to not having a good enough computer when it came out.
< 1292972686 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Introversion is *the* coolest company. <-- no
< 1292972690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. It really is.
< 1292972696 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they never released the final darwinia upgrade for linux
< 1292972705 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that took them down a notch
< 1292972706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I see. So what company is better?
< 1292972715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can't name one: SORRY, still the coolest.
< 1292972716 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I had great fun once I worked out that with a single relatively-high risk hack you can get a million currencies.
< 1292972718 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, I don't know any. But they are not perfect
< 1292972727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover: Heh. I could never get the storyline to start.
< 1292972728 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, still they are cool, but that thing soured me a bit
< 1292972728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb.
< 1292972728 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292972743 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I shouldn't have read about the storyline
< 1292972754 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can go from crappy starting equipment, with some bank-oriented upgrade to OMGAWESOME supercomputer.
< 1292972760 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Darwinia I haven't played due to not having a good enough computer when it came out. <-- wait what
< 1292972767 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*upgrades
< 1292972771 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll try it agan
< 1292972773 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again
< 1292972775 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, darwinia (awesome awesome) has *retro* graphics
< 1292972790 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a Darwinia trial?
< 1292972792 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is low polygon
< 1292972797 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, think so
< 1292972798 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, there's a demo.
< 1292972803 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome
< 1292972806 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah demo
< 1292972810 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the full thing of course
< 1292972813 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe after Monday I'll try it
< 1292972823 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, first thing: disable mouse gesture interface
< 1292972827 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is bloody annoying
< 1292972827 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uplink doesn't work on modern Linux systems, though, due to the evils of shared libraries.
< 1292972830 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Braid. And get back to work on the Project
< 1292972837 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, ouch
< 1292972843 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, I know!
< 1292972844 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ban all IPs on Wikisuperosity
< 1292972846 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANd and and
< 1292972848 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, was uplink the nuclear war one?
< 1292972858 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, Uplink's the "hacking" one
< 1292972860 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, no, the Hollywood hacking simulator.
< 1292972865 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292972868 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never played it
< 1292972870 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds cool
< 1292972894 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, after completing the storyline about 5 times and hacking into every system in existence twice I got bored.
< 1292972896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had a real shell
< 1292972911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could delete a box's os
< 1292972918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'd die
< 1292972922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forever
< 1292972926 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NB: never side with ARC in the story mode; spreading that virus is ridiculously hard/
< 1292972949 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I downloaded a revelation.exe from a fansite once. Never opened it, never intended to
< 1292972974 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except maybe in a VM
< 1292972976 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, I presume a chroot with older linux would work
< 1292972980 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, when approx?
< 1292972991 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait... 2001
< 1292972993 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, if you run the revelation you get from the Arunmor campaign, you get a 30-second, autonomous way of taking out any server.
< 1292973002 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, it was their first game.
< 1292973007 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :little chance of automagic deb chroot then
< 1292973015 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subversion looks so cool.
< 1292973027 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, link?
< 1292973037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could deposit into a bank
< 1292973040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and
< 1292973040 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.introversion.co.uk/subversion/ is the development blog.
< 1292973056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the money woiyuold be there
< 1292973061 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's extremely sporadic.
< 1292973065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a new game
< 1292973077 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh, if you got caught?
< 1292973080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would
< 1292973082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup
< 1292973084 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, what is the game about?
< 1292973088 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, subversion I mean
< 1292973098 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the full version, at least, you could hack into the police servers and get people framed.
< 1292973101 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 the Uplink music
< 1292973107 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a pretty common mission.
< 1292973112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1292973133 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although IIRC you can't get the elliptic curve decipherer in the demo, so good luck with that.
< 1292973167 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, Subversion is AFAIK a Mission Impossibley game where you're the nerd in the van.
< 1292973214 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, awesome
< 1292973220 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEFCON is also pretty cool.
< 1292973227 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, that was the nuclear one
< 1292973242 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since you can have a pretty good time in MP even if you only get the demo.
< 1292973265 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXyHhyDzE7w LISTEN TO IT
< 1292973323 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what else was awesome?
< 1292973329 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The soundtrack for Micro Men.
< 1292973351 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, since it was a fringe docudrama that only aired on BBC 4, it'll never be released.
< 1292973359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, have a copy of uplink?
< 1292973376 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, on the old family Mac.
< 1292973380 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not on this computer.
< 1292973382 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y8IkcUGV9w
< 1292973383 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, for linux?
< 1292973395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buy it.
< 1292973397 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Skip forward until music is playing.
< 1292973405 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if it doesn't run any more...
< 1292973429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quake ii still runs!
< 1292973432 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I loved that thing...
< 1292973434 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, advocating purchasing data?
< 1292973435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use a chroot
< 1292973437 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's libgtk1 IIRC.
< 1292973441 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the world is ending
< 1292973442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so?
< 1292973448 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or some other stupidly low version.
< 1292973449 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, *gah*
< 1292973456 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, it's purchasing from INTROVERSION.
< 1292973458 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D
< 1292973467 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, watch Micro Men to take your mind off it.
< 1292973486 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, nah, after I listen to the video Sgeo linked
< 1292973499 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reminds me of Perfect Dark music (but more awesome than that)
< 1292973507 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though Perfect Dark was a pretty awesome game)
< 1292973523 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, that music brings back memories.
< 1292973533 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The Uplink music.)
< 1292973538 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try the game(s) I made. I made many different kind.
< 1292973569 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, you are not Introversion.
< 1292973612 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can download the soundtrack from Introversion I think
< 1292973624 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that soundtrack is long
< 1292973641 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover: You are correct about that. But maybe try it anyways.
< 1292973647 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, are you watching Micro Men
< 1292973669 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, no, the one Sgeo linked
< 1292973683 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to a YouTube commentor, there may be a glitch in the video
< 1292973687 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, the Uplink soundtrack is long, obviously.
< 1292973691 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292973702 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, I will watch the other one when you help me find uplink (I bought darwinia, after I tried it)
< 1292973709 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I never buy something before trying)
< 1292973730 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, what time?
< 1292973738 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, http://www.introversion.co.uk/uplink/downloads/uplink-demo-1.54.sh
< 1292973738 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7:50 some awesomeness
< 1292973750 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should be able to fix it better than I.
< 1292973761 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, I meant full version
< 1292973765 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this kind of game http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/games/xnazzyball.png or http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/games/meskilb.png or http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/games/oldgamescreen/009.png or http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/games/DiskCatch2.png or http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/mzx1/ASCMZXTO/screen.png
< 1292973774 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, not sure.
< 1292973784 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I got the Mac version from Ambrosia.
< 1292973790 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, NO.
< 1292973790 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, DF clone?
< 1292973793 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably you don't know without a description.
< 1292973795 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, they were involved?
< 1292973805 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What is DF clone?
< 1292973809 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, they're Introversion's Mac distributor AFAIK.
< 1292973817 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I hate puzzle games in general
< 1292973823 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, ah
< 1292973824 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, the graphics of that last screenshot look like they're from Dwarf Fortress
< 1292973827 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Darwinia, Multiwinia, DEFCON and Uplink.
< 1292973831 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1292973849 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, their trial-over stuff is on crack however
< 1292973850 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: They aren't. They are the CP437 character set, though.
< 1292973858 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, but less literate.
< 1292973859 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as exemplified by elliott)
< 1292973874 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, are you watching Micro Men yes
< 1292973874 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292973876 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yet
< 1292973880 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, uplink still
< 1292973888 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, several minutes left
< 1292973893 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, sorry about upstaging you
< 1292973904 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you watch Micro Men.
< 1292973914 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After the Uplink soundtrack is over
< 1292973916 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like the best thing the BBC have made since forever.
< 1292973937 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, well. We will see.
< 1292973956 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, there's glitching around 11:20
< 1292973967 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, but uplink music reminds me of Perfect Dark in parts
< 1292973968 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all parts though
< 1292973973 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess that is only natural considering the genre
< 1292973980 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glitching ends before 11:30
< 1292973984 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I have a copy of Perfect Dark somewhere!!
< 1292974003 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, well, it doesn't work well under mupen64plus
< 1292974007 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, that is all I can say
< 1292974007 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the last screen-shot, if you want information (and list of things that are not true in the "Criticize" section), see:  http://www.digitalmzx.net/wiki/index.php?title=Super_ASCII_MZX_Town
< 1292974011 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never *played* it, and I'm not entirely confident it or the second-hand N64 work, but..
< 1292974024 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, hah
< 1292974034 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, it is, or was, an awesome game
< 1292974050 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, <3 Rogue Squadron, incidentally.
< 1292974059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the only reason pirating minecraft was acceptable for demoing is because there is no demo offered. you can easily figure out whether you'll like uplink from the demo. if you just want to pirate it, fine, but don't phrase it as trying-before-you-buy.
< 1292974062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't expect Phamhntom_Hoover to help you
< 1292974085 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, never played that
< 1292974089 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, genre?
< 1292974102 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, space-sim-but-not-really.
< 1292974107 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, hm
< 1292974130 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It *should* be a space sim, but exactly one of the levels are in anything that could be called space.
< 1292974132 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Now do you like this game?
< 1292974175 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It hardened me against escort missions early on.
< 1292974188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: the only reason pirating minecraft was acceptable for demoing is because there is no demo offered. you can easily figure out whether you'll like uplink from the demo. if you just want to pirate it, fine, but don't phrase it as trying-before-you-buy.
< 1292974188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and don't expect Phamhntom_Hoover to help you
< 1292974206 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Some of the puzzles do not work correctly except on the author's computer"
< 1292974226 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, those criticisms are all jokes?
< 1292974242 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're not supposed to kill BIG_MONSTER?
< 1292974247 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That isn't true, though. Everything in the criticisms list is untrue.
< 1292974251 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott:  axioms like  forall {X X' Y}, ObEq X X' -> Hom X Y -> Hom X' Y  can't be realized
< 1292974257 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rogue Squadron and OoT were basically the first games I played.
< 1292974265 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, Criticisms says to kill the BIG_MONSTER...
< 1292974265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: goodbye constructivism :P
< 1292974275 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there needs to be a way...
< 1292974304 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes you shouldn't kill BIG_MONSTER. (You can't, anyways. But even if you could, you shouldn't. You should kill MEDIUM_SIZE_MONSTER though, because they are bad and BIG_MONSTER can help you to beat them.)
< 1292974345 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Understand?
< 1292974358 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides not to trust zzo38 to write cross-platform software

< 1292974374 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides not to trust zzo38 for ANYTHING.

< 1292974394 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"so you have to use the same forked version of MegaZeux that zzo38 wrote"
< 1292974414 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: This game is cross-platform software. Most of the software I write is cross-platform software and most of it works. (I have even tested some of my programs on Linux and they work.)
< 1292974426 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-228-8.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292974448 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, so what about that micromen
< 1292974455 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, decent music, but that's it
< 1292974458 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I meant in the sense of "is likely to write his own fork of the platform and make it run exclusively on that"
< 1292974459 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That is for Part II. Part I does not require it (but does work with my version of MegaZeux). I have only compiled my forked version of MegaZeux on Windows, but it should work on other operating system, too.
< 1292974470 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, Philistine.
< 1292974474 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, hm?
< 1292974475 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I expected as much!
< 1292974485 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, I loved uplink music!
< 1292974502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet Vorpal wouldn't even like the IT crowd!
< 1292974507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RABBLE RABBLE
< 1292974509 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love The IT Crowd!
< 1292974510 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: O, that is what you mean. Still, you should be able to compile the one with PZX-feature on any operating system with C and SDL.
< 1292974519 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, I did show him the "Have you tried turning it off and on again clip".
< 1292974523 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is that the one I seen a clip from where the technobable made sense?
< 1292974528 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He responded positively.
< 1292974530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Probably.
< 1292974536 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, that's a sign of QUALITY.
< 1292974543 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, something about the global interrupt table in the NT kernel or such
< 1292974550 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which made absolutely perfect sense
< 1292974552 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only seen seasons 1 and 2 :(
< 1292974555 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, quite!
< 1292974560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, that
< 1292974575 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, Season 3... hmm...
< 1292974585 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to remember if there's been a Season 4.
< 1292974588 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover: What things you didn't trust me with? Maybe some things I cannot properly be trusted but some things I can do it why didn't you trust it??
< 1292974592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only seen sporadic episodes; last I watched was the (Street) Countdown one.
< 1292974603 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I read about NT internals (don't ask why, I don't know). And I can tell you it was a perfectly sensible (if somewhat unlikely) problem description
< 1292974610 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, was that the one where Moss ends up justifying the Iraq war?
< 1292974629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover: I forget.
< 1292974643 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait, that one was the one where he invents the bra.
< 1292974649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: IIRC it had one issue
< 1292974660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: in that he said you wanted X to happen when in fact you didn't, i.e. the opposite
< 1292974660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh?
< 1292974662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something
< 1292974666 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't you tell me why? If you tell me why and it is a genuine mistake, I can attempt to correct it.
< 1292974666 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah could be
< 1292974681 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, don't remember exactly
< 1292974685 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm making practical applications for redstone :/
< 1292974696 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey, such as the CPU?
< 1292974703 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that would lag...
< 1292974706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until redstone can control an automatic mining machine, I don't acre.
< 1292974707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*care.
< 1292974725 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would pwn
< 1292974731 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, obviously one of the idiots on the 8th floor tried writing his own drivers for the printer and called Moss for help.
< 1292974742 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover, haha
< 1292974749 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THINGS THAT NEED TO HAPPEN: BOfH cameo on the IT Crowd.
< 1292974826 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1292974829 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292974861 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even better: the BOfH IS Renham Industries' network operator.
< 1292974885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Reynholm, you ... thing.
< 1292974894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reynholm.co.uk/
< 1292974916 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, shh!
< 1292974926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat
< 1292974934 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moving from the sublime to the ridiculous: Richmond is the BOfH in disguise!
< 1292974944 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like any of the games in this list?  BJACK BUMPERSH COLORSOL COLORSPI DANCEKEY DOWN ELEMENTA FATHER GIVEAWAY HACKBITS KNAR MAKETEN MAZEMAN MINES MUDCAGE MUTCHNAM PUZGEN PUZZLEX QCOOKIE SKEDALS SNAKEBIT SOVMINGA STARSTAK STARWARS STEPTILE STOKER WUMPUS9 .
< 1292975096 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :END THE VELOCIRAPTORS TYRANNY! BOARD UP YOUR HOMES!
< 1292975096 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292975135 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, NO, WE DON'T AND WE NEVER WILL
< 1292975153 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hides after remembering this is a akcd hate club

< 1292975159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Akcd!
< 1292975162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best web comic!
< 1292975170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://akcd.com/ THE BEST SPAM PAGE
< 1292975177 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd...
< 1292975186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: Note: I only hate xkcd post-around-comic-400.
< 1292975191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used to be excellent.
< 1292975203 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phamhntom_Hoover: What did you not like about this game?
< 1292975204 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it not anymore?
< 1292975214 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I like the black hat guy though :/
< 1292975222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: Because Randall went insane?
< 1292975222 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"so you have to use the same forked version of MegaZeux that zzo38 wrote"
< 1292975225 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops
< 1292975225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just ran out of ideas.
< 1292975235 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your helpdesk request has been successfully received. You have been automatically allocated the ticket number O65LRV2T. Please record this number in a safe place."
< 1292975279 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292975408 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292975462 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has a Reynhold Industries ID card!

< 1292975582 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SQL Query: SELECT `userid`, `username`, md5(`password`) FROM `intranet_users`
< 1292975636 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am still in progress of Part II game, so I didn't put SMALL_MONSTER yet, but SMALL_MONSTER is neither good nor bad. Now BIG_MONSTER is good, MEDIUM_SIZE_MONSTER is bad, and SMALL_MONSTER is neither good nor bad; this works isn't it?
< 1292975651 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Now I am going to steal your ticket number and sell it in the black market for access cards.
< 1292975811 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1292975822 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I created a semi controllable oscillator in mc
< 1292975834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are known oscillators
< 1292975841 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine changes speed bitch
< 1292975883 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1292975909 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sics a female dog on Goosey 

< 1292976241 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the point in even trying to protect a game
< 1292976249 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its going to get cracked anyways
< 1292976335 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it harder for lazier people to pirate it
< 1292976356 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a matter of copying and pasting a cracked exe
< 1292976362 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm lazy and I can do that
< 1292976366 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292976373 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again I also crack my own games sometimes, so I guess I'm  not that lazy
< 1292976521 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 or 2 requests a second shouldn't accidentally DoS anyone, should it?
< 1292976552 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Target is using Dreamhost
< 1292976670 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292976691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: um that's not a very good idea prolonged
< 1292976719 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1292976742 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1292976847 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm?
< 1292976925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well how long would you be making such requests for
< 1292976934 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~18 hours
< 1292976968 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe not all at one time
< 1292976971 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: You forgot about the AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA****************************\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
< 1292976991 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At any rate, I just contacted someone who might have administrative control of the wiki
< 1292977022 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hi. Do you have control over the wiki? Unofficial policy seems to be
< 1292977022 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that unregistered edits should be disabled for the time being. I've
< 1292977023 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :been contemplating writing a bot to ban IPs, but I'd really rather
< 1292977023 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not. There should be a simple setting somewhere, I think."
< 1292977034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 1-2 edits a second for 18 hours?
< 1292977035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L O L
< 1292977045 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 1-2 bans a second
< 1292977050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*requests
< 1292977057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm assuming it's on a shitty server
< 1292977059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i find very likely
< 1292977119 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I know is Dreamhost
< 1292977152 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292977219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe
< 1292977221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY NOT
< 1292977227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll probably be slightly slower.
< 1292977275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I improved http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1292977627 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292977797 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292977888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CVSup is written in Modula-3.
< 1292978052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously! What is this language!
< 1292978270 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MediaWiki.org uses what looks like a Linspire icon
< 1292978402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MUST FIND THIS LANGUAGE.
< 1292978551 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL at http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Newarticletext
< 1292978764 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292978967 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292979203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: hey, any slashes program ending with \ is invalid, right?
< 1292979570 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION slashes elliott's head off

< 1292979688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: And what about //foo/? Does that terminate immediately, or $wtf forever?
< 1292979939 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292980171 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292980695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> run "/abc/def/abc"
< 1292980695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :""
< 1292980697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tha's no' ri'.
< 1292980914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> replace "abc" "def" "helloabc"
< 1292980914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"defc"
< 1292980915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1292980921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh!
< 1292981024 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292981137 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292981276 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1292981494 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292981580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the name of the game. the length of the string. the crime of the time. the dog ate my moon.
< 1292981581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deep.
< 1292982313 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quit
< 1292982457 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292982586 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1292982658 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292983514 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my God
< 1292983515 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This
< 1292983516 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is
< 1292983517 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the
< 1292983517 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most
< 1292983524 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :epic keygen music I have ever heard
< 1292983554 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dancing pirate is awesome too
< 1292983595 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292983659 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292984615 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292984648 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone's playing DDR, I see.
< 1292984692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1292984884 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292985193 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292985399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : tswett: hey, any slashes program ending with \ is invalid, right?
< 1292985408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed not
< 1292985410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program just terminates
< 1292985412 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any slashes program consisting solely of \, you mean
< 1292985413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to my interpretation of the spec
< 1292985414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1292985417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no
< 1292985419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: foo\
< 1292985421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that prints foo and exits
< 1292985426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1292985428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because when there's not enough program to execute, program execution stops
< 1292985435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wrote a haskell slashes impl
< 1292985438 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the spec is quite clear on that point.
< 1292985447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/ICgN
< 1292985449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably very slow
< 1292985457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but quite elegant
< 1292985462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh the perl implementation may not be entirely correct on //.../ stuff, there was a discussion
< 1292985468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine infloops on that
< 1292985472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read the discussion
< 1292985506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes it was a perl special case feature interfering
< 1292985840 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292985875 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98ew0VtHmik
< 1292985986 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey, wtf?
< 1292985986 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292986112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I figured how to do N-arg c lambdas.
< 1292986138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: basically fn((int a, int b, int c), ...) using "join_args_commas args" inside fn and "join_args_semicolons", this also lets us do type inferrence
< 1292986143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just a note to self, amend http://sprunge.us/IOdM tomorrow
< 1292986182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also pikhq should link me to his copyable lambda code so I can base it off that.
< 1292986202 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, Revolution
< 1292986542 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ^
< 1292986555 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yoy forgot to ping yourself ;) )
< 1292986556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ?
< 1292986559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1292986559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1292986565 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you
< 1292986657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1292986953 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292987201 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292988153 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292988426 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292988670 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1292989353 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292989435 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292989918 0 :augur_!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292990078 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1292990219 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur
< 1292990400 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292990770 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292990803 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1292991577 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has been *years* since I played FFX, and I still have the freaking Hymn of the Fayth stuck in my head.
< 1292991587 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit UEMATU!
< 1292991633 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292991855 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292992599 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1292992696 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-204-200.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292992803 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292992929 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292993406 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah... PCRM has published bottom 5 cookbooks for the year... Of course, knowing what PCRM does, good work from writers of those 5.
< 1292993457 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha
< 1292993559 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PCRM, CSPI, PETA... All part of same bunch...
< 1292993715 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And all have doublespeak names...
< 1292993801 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're in league with each other?
< 1292993818 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK, Yes.
< 1292993883 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292993968 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the "best" cookbooks of the year on list PCRM did are all vegan (caveat!) or vegetarian (not so good).
< 1292994024 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :caveat?
< 1292994037 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Essentially means "Watch out!"
< 1292994062 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292994064 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what a caveat is
< 1292994067 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the caveat?
< 1292994140 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vegan diet without supplementing leads to nutrional defiencies.
< 1292994167 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k
< 1292994179 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that it isn't good for health even when when supplementing is an understatement.
< 1292994232 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd is only funny today because of previous xkcd
< 1292994248 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and having herbivore without signaficant predators in any ecosystem is a recipe for disaster.
< 1292994505 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even with plant-based diet one must choose the animal products well to avoid trouble with defiencies. And there are some plant products that are not acutely toxic but still just plain unfit for human consumption.
< 1292994566 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: There is no indication that a cultivating omnivore is no less dangerous
< 1292994700 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps... But that "herbivore on top of food chain" disaster has been seen time and time again...
< 1292994717 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure
< 1292994727 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But our situation has never truly occurred
< 1292994732 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the known history of life
< 1292994857 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1292995017 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292995037 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also, agriculture as presently practiced is really destructive to the environment and health.
< 1292995067 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1292995086 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an obvious economical consequence that will not be overcome until necessary
< 1292995171 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292995208 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I met someone with more nostalgia than myself.
< 1292995215 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really destructive to health: Second worst health-related disaster humankind has ever experenced.
< 1292995246 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: why do you say health?
< 1292995254 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what do you consider #1?
< 1292995343 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, #1 was also related to agriculture...
< 1292995352 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is?
< 1292995380 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The beginning of agriculture with cereal grains. That was REALLY ugly.
< 1292995390 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes
< 1292995397 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we got over that one, more or less
< 1292995404 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm?
< 1292995483 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One can tell from remains of human skull around the time of beginning of argriculture if it is remains of hunter-gatherer or of member of agricultural tribe with one look if one knows what to look for...
< 1292995510 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The diffrence is just so massive.
< 1292995519 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, not about to abandon agriculture, thank you very much
< 1292995562 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there are way better ways (for human health and environment) to do agriculture than what is presently done. And the reason why these changes are not done is economics.
< 1292995749 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is cheaper to do half-assed job and expend lots of fossil resources than to do it properly.
< 1292995891 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is closely related to reasons why seed oils and margarine are promoted as "healthy" and why butter is demonized as "unhealthy".
< 1292995969 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: economics is not about money
< 1292996131 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292996169 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and organization closely related to PCRM (CSPI) is the one who made restaurants switch from frying with tallow, lard and co to frying with partially hyrogenated plant fats (the unhealthiest fats in existence).
< 1292996241 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: no
< 1292996281 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the public has thankfully managed to straighten out the difference between saturated, cis-unsaturated, and trans-unsaturated fats, thankfully
< 1292996387 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292996453 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and don't forget the diffrence between trans fats from partial hydrogenation (why these are even allowed?) and vaccinic acid/conjugated linolic acid (seem to be healthy).
< 1292996546 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's true
< 1292996558 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :our body can process a few naturally-occuring trans-unsaturated fats
< 1292996618 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, one often hears statements about fats that can be only explained by 1) Who gives the statement has absolutely no clue about what they are talkin about. 2) The statement is just plain disinformation.
< 1292996633 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or intentional attempt to mislead the public...
< 1292996816 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder what is efficency of conversion of linolic acid into archadonic acid in the body... Is it real bad like ALA->EPA/DHA conversion or way better than that?
< 1292996858 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: do you understand why trans fats are bad for you?
< 1292997025 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and techno trans fats don't occur alone. Hydrogenation also produces dihydrovitamin-K1 from vitamin K1. Little is known about that compound, but the little that is known is chock full of red flags...
< 1292997258 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I repeat my question
< 1292997323 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, the biochemical basis of why trans fats are unhealthy could be rather interesting reading...
< 1292997360 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292997564 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292997695 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Eldaic acid (the infamous trans fat) has the double bond in position 9 (and most well-known desaturase acts on just that position)...
< 1292997765 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :desaturating position 6 would create C=C-C-C=C group (which is somewhat unstable).
< 1292998533 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292998728 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1292999702 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1292999931 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293000899 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293000985 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293001091 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293001243 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For your Consideration, The Firms of Dutton & Riverhead Books of New York City, Publishers of Ken Follett, Darin Strauss, David Rees, and the RZA, Present in the English Language: A Further Compendium of Complete World Knowledge in "The Areas Of My Expertise" Assembled and Illumined by Me, John Hodgman, A Famous Minor Television Personality*, Offering More Information Than You Require On subjects as Diverse As: The Past (As There Is Always
< 1293001243 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More of It), The Future (As There is Still Some Left), All of the Presidents of the United States, The Secrets of Hollywood, Gambling, The Sport of the Asthmatic Man (Including Hermit-Crab Racing), Strange Encounters with Aliens, How to Buy a Computer, How to Cook an Owl, And Most Other Subjects, Plus: Answers To Your Questions Posed via Electronic Mail, And: 700 Mole-Man Names, Including Their Occupations."
< 1293001249 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Formerly a Former Professional Literary Agent and Professional Writer, AKA "The Deranged Millionaire"
< 1293001252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now there's a title.
< 1293001453 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i only know of it due to hodgman's association with joco and the list of hobo names
< 1293002040 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293002060 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How difficult would it be to port zzo38's MegaZeux stuff to Flash?
< 1293002230 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293003179 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293003426 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293003676 0 :sexygirl153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293003679 0 :sexygirl153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1293003726 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cal153: THAT WAS TOO OBVIOUS
< 1293003754 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :launched 2 copies of mirc by mistake >.>
< 1293003786 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean that is your _actual_ alternative nick?  very well then.
< 1293003801 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed so
< 1293004381 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293004503 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... New set of IPv4 allocation reports is coming soon...
< 1293004646 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293004799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1293004800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293005205 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... 2.96x/8...
< 1293005383 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IPv6 depletion is still at 0.027%. Wonder if they manage to deplete even one IPv6 block next year (oh, and there are 506 of them free currently)...
< 1293005583 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293005794 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293005897 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293005902 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Build system weirdness: http://p.zem.fi/bow4 -- the actual link failure is because on some systems just having "gio-2.0" is not enough to pull in gthread fluff, so libs also needs "gthread-2.0"; but it fails in a bit funny way.
< 1293005919 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With V=1 it fails the way you'd expect, with the failing link step last and no extra fluff after.
< 1293005994 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least no weird header / library incompatiblities.
< 1293006169 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a quoting thing is involved.
< 1293006186 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Corresponding useful.make snippet:
< 1293006188 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define do
< 1293006189 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	echo '$(SPACE)$(SPACE)$(1)$(TAB)$(2)'; \
< 1293006189 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	$(strip $(3)) || ( \
< 1293006189 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		exit=$$?; \
< 1293006189 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		echo '  (command was: $(strip $(3)))'; \
< 1293006189 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		exit $$exit \
< 1293006191 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	)
< 1293006193 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endef
< 1293006260 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it ends up executing: echo '  LINK    _build/mcmap'; cc [..] || ( exit=_build/cmd.o _build/console.o [..]; echo '...'; exit xit )
< 1293006326 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, just stupidly quadruplicating the $$s into $$$$s makes it work.
< 1293006370 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming some double-expansion there somewhere; maybe once on the definition and once on use?
< 1293006386 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(GNU Make 3.81.)
< 1293006751 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293006950 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293007893 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293008267 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1293009269 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293009541 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293010235 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293010670 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1293012169 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1293012333 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-6-233.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293012811 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293012885 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1293014045 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293014781 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293015005 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1293016492 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1293017642 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
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< 1293018499 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293018539 0 :Vorpal_!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293018568 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1293019473 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181129100.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293019824 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293020759 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181129100.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293021010 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293021232 0 :Vorpal_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Vorpal
< 1293021959 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181129100.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293022119 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1293023306 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293023679 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"* Rewrote Leaf Decay for the seventeenth time, and as a result..
< 1293023679 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* .. fixed HUGE fps drops in single player
< 1293023679 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* .. fixed players getting spammed with data and getting disconnected in SMP
< 1293023679 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* .. felt like a sexy programming god
< 1293023679 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Fixed the item dupe bug in SMP"
< 1293023695 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure that third subitem there is a good sign, but at least it's (supposedly) fixed now.
< 1293023841 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293023991 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has MC been patched to a working state yet?
< 1293024165 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what they say.
< 1293024172 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "* Rewrote Leaf Decay for the seventeenth time, and as a result..
< 1293024172 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * .. fixed HUGE fps drops in single player
< 1293024172 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * .. fixed players getting spammed with data and getting disconnected in SMP
< 1293024172 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * .. felt like a sexy programming god
< 1293024172 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Fixed the item dupe bug in SMP"
< 1293024174 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm not sure that third subitem there is a good sign, but at least it's (supposedly) fixed now.
< 1293024180 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was just before your join.
< 1293024226 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the beta 1.1 update he posted was further updated to 1.1_01 because 1.1 "contained a bug where no text worked anywhere in the game because the newly made font.txt didn’t make it into package when building.."
< 1293024240 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But such issues are the norm when you're dealing with a "sexy programming god".
< 1293024260 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTCH: the man with the ego to dwarf Wolfram's.
< 1293024275 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181129100.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293024300 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Of course, that font bug doesn't happen except when testing through the live system.. Hold on.." -- "Yes, I ran the game right after it went on the live system, and saw the bug =)"
< 1293024318 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity_%28MMOG%29
< 1293024319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So he doesn't have any sort of system in place that'd test the binary blob he pushes into the world-wide updates.
< 1293024323 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How clevur.
< 1293024374 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"groooan, updated to 1.1_02, mandatory for client and server, fixing the container not opening with empty hands bug [7 minutes ago via web]"
< 1293024375 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the fact that it has 4 awards despite the fact that only a combat simulator with next to no of the promised features has been released.
< 1293024402 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, this is the first time I've ever seen you actually mocking someone.
< 1293024460 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293024471 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like the sort of stuff I do with mcmap, except that I have an audience of, uh, four, instead of 855793.
< 1293025415 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181129100.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293025605 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293025978 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293026579 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181129100.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293026805 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293027178 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293027262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, a site seems to have replaced an article with an entirely different article about a vaguely similar subject, in response to it being slashdotted
< 1293027336 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293027418 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293027698 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, as a mathematician, what is your opinion on whether 0 \in N?
< 1293027787 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it differs by mathematical subject
< 1293027873 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 is round and N is all acute-angly, I don't thing the former belongs in the latter.
< 1293027891 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181129100.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293027936 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I wonder if programmers in general (due to the whole zero-indexing thing) are more likely to put 0 in N than a random sampling of other people. Maybe someone should do a poll.
< 1293027948 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293028194 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293028350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:25:26  Yes, just stupidly quadruplicating the $$s into $$$$s makes it work.
< 1293028358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But I just /replaced/ them with $$s from $$$$s.
< 1293028370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough though.
< 1293028380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's because I use do both in template rules and real rules. TODO: fix.
< 1293028440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:04:13  pikhq: i only know of it due to hodgman's association with joco and the list of hobo names
< 1293028444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hobo names are in the previous book.
< 1293028485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:41:16 --- join: sexygirl153 (~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #esoteric
< 1293028485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:41:19 --- quit: sexygirl153 (Client Quit)
< 1293028487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2004 repeats itself
< 1293028601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:25:36  Incidentally, I wonder if programmers in general (due to the whole zero-indexing thing) are more likely to put 0 in N than a random sampling of other people. Maybe someone should do a poll.
< 1293028609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think 0 should be in N but accept that it usually isn't
< 1293028817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ make
< 1293028818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  LINK	_build/mcmap
< 1293028818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc: _build/cmd.o: No such file or directory
< 1293028818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc: _build/console.o: No such file or directory
< 1293028818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc: _build/main.o: No such file or directory
< 1293028818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc: _build/map.o: No such file or directory
< 1293028820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc: _build/protocol.o: No such file or directory
< 1293028822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc: _build/world.o: No such file or directory
< 1293028824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, uh, regret adding OBJDIR support.
< 1293029007 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181129100.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293029126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh well, actually turns out $$ -> $$$$ works perfectly for everything. Pushed it without realising I'd not done anything else, sorry if that causes conflcits.
< 1293029213 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293029216 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when things don't work, add more dollars
< 1293029222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what escaping format is there that requires quadrupling of dollars?
< 1293029260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: GNU Makke
< 1293029262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Make
< 1293029266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: GNU Make metaprogramming
< 1293029267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be exact
< 1293029315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, you're trying to show GNU make TC?
< 1293029320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no
< 1293029325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is actual code used in an actual project :)
< 1293029329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring
< 1293029332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, the latter because ... I bugged fizzie until he let me put it in
< 1293029346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: /boring/? I've practically proved GNU make TC /accidentally/ in the process of using it
< 1293029354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, if you've ever used GNU make, you will understand is not very usual
< 1293029366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define clean-recipe
< 1293029366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(foreach x,$(to-clean),$(call do,RM,$(objdir)/$(x),rm -f $(objdir)/$(x))
< 1293029366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1293029367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(call do,RMDIR,$(objdir),rmdir $(objdir) 2>/dev/null || true)
< 1293029367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endef
< 1293029367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clean: ; $(clean-recipe)
< 1293029372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that newline before the ) is *required* :)
< 1293029380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you must define clean like that ... I'm still not sure why
< 1293029394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more used to portable make than GNU make
< 1293029403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: define c-program-body
< 1293029403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to-install += $(1)
< 1293029403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to-clean += $(1) $(2:.c=.o) $(2:.c=.d)
< 1293029403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(objdir)/$(1): $(2:%.c=$(objdir)/%.o) Makefile | $(objdir) ; \
< 1293029403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        $(call do,LINK,$(objdir)/$(1),$(cc.link) -o $(objdir)/$(1) \
< 1293029404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                $(2:%.c=$(objdir)/%.o))
< 1293029405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(if $(cleaning),,-include $(2:%.c=$(objdir)/%.d))
< 1293029407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endef
< 1293029409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :## $(call c-program,foo,foo.c bar.c) -- compiles foo.c and bar.c into foo
< 1293029411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c-program = $(eval $(call c-program-body,$(strip $(1)),$(strip $(2))))
< 1293029413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: GNU Make is SO MUCH MORE FUN.
< 1293029439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual escaped thing, btw:
< 1293029440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define do
< 1293029440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        @echo '$(SPACE)$(SPACE)$(1)$(TAB)$(2)'; \
< 1293029440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        $(strip $(3)) || ( \
< 1293029440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                exit=$$$$?; \
< 1293029440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                echo '  (command was: $(strip $(3)))'; \
< 1293029442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                exit $$$$exit \
< 1293029444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        )
< 1293029446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endef
< 1293029590 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I do hope it's a GNUmakefile and not a Makefile!
< 1293029601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You hope wrong :-)
< 1293029618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The Makefile itself is perfectly portable to any make with, uh, "include file" and "$(call foo,bar,baz)".
< 1293029633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But if it doesn't have its own implementation of useful.make built in, well, I even included a GNU Make one for you.
< 1293029644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? It's kindness.
< 1293029658 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do most makes have that stuff? :-P
< 1293029689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Only decent ones. Sadly, there are no decent makes.
< 1293029691 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I'm not entirely certain the deps work; "make ; touch world.h ; make" => Nothing to be done for `all' for the latter case.
< 1293029714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hmm
< 1293029739 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another objdir-related thing, I believe.
< 1293029742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_build/cmd.d: /usr/include/SDL/SDL_timer.h /usr/include/SDL/SDL_version.h world.h
< 1293029742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_build/console.d: /usr/include/glib-2.0/gio/gzlibdecompressor.h console.h world.h
< 1293029743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_build/main.d: common.h protocol.h console.h map.h world.h
< 1293029743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_build/map.d: /usr/include/SDL/SDL_timer.h /usr/include/SDL/SDL_version.h world.h
< 1293029743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_build/world.d: /usr/include/glib-2.0/gio/gzlibdecompressor.h map.h world.h
< 1293029747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Indeed X-D
< 1293029751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since "make objdir=. ; touch world.h ; make objdir=." rebuilds the necessary bits.
< 1293029754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I swear this thing was perfect and un-buggy before I added objdir.
< 1293029757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you believe me? :P
< 1293029779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, am I going to have to set cc's output here?
< 1293029810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can give it an objprefix.
< 1293029818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait.
< 1293029818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1293029857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait.
< 1293029862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Why would it be objdir-related?
< 1293029887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the CWD in all the .d files' context is the mcmap source tree root.
< 1293029892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the filenames are *right*.
< 1293029892 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just based that judgement on the fact that objdir=. makes it work.
< 1293029899 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey I think I solved the problem elliott  but I have to go
< 1293029902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sure, I agree, I'm just confused.
< 1293029904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: awesome! how?
< 1293029928 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it seems a bit weird but I define equality of objects in terms of equality of morphisms
< 1293029938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that sounds really nice
< 1293029946 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so A = B is defined as having f : A -> B, g : B -> A, with fg = id and gf = id
< 1293029970 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't typed it up yet but we'll see!
< 1293029984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: wait
< 1293029988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that's just a bijection!
< 1293029994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that's what i've been telling you to do all along :-)
< 1293030010 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh geez you are right
< 1293030017 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I remember yuo saying that..
< 1293030036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at least i know i'm a perfect, infallible genius now
< 1293030037 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I think it will work anyway bbl
< 1293030041 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1293030063 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes the definition of a category simpler too
< 1293030066 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1293030144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH
< 1293030147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :world.o: world.c \
< 1293030261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exit: 1: Illegal number: 4957exit
< 1293030266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$L"~!O_)!_)£O_)@~F:!
< 1293030293 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181129100.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293030299 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, sounds like it got the $$ PID there now. :p
< 1293030304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1293030311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you know what? I'm making two nearly-identical do functions
< 1293030318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one with $$, one with $$$$
< 1293030336 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to look inside useful.make anwyay.
< 1293030340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD
< 1293030342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody should
< 1293030344 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293030354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the skeleton in your beautiful build system's closet
< 1293030541 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293030884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hey, hMod is actually beta'd; https://github.com/traitor/Minecraft-Server-Mod/
< 1293030886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just not as a release.
< 1293030891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick! Get ineiros intoxicated!
< 1293030914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/traitor/Minecraft-Server-Mod/blob/master/build.xml Ahahahant.
< 1293030955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Minecraft-Server-Mod] http://bit.ly/gRtj3z Erik Broes - Added item.getDamage()/item.setDamage()
< 1293030957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the last one.
< 1293031318 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might consider adding also "-MT $(objdir)/$*.d" in addition to "-MT $(objdir)/$*.o" (you can use multiple -MTs), that way it should then rebuild the depfile also when any of the headers change. (Currently I think it only rebuilds deps when the associated source file itself changes.)
< 1293031384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(objdir)/%.d: %.c Makefile | $(objdir)
< 1293031384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	$(call do,DEP,$<,$(cc.invoke) -M -MG -MT $(objdir)/$*.o -MF $@ $<)
< 1293031387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hmm.
< 1293031392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, you are right, I will do that.
< 1293031457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1293031481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "make clean all" still doesn't work, though, because make is astonishingly braindead.
< 1293031528 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for hMod, I'm not sure even an intoxicated ineiros would care enough to start testing pre-release things.
< 1293031556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a theory that ineiros is Notch.
< 1293031582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can you make very, very sure he's not Swedish?
< 1293031606 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, he doesn't *look* Swedish, but of course you never know.
< 1293031611 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181129100.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293031664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hell, I've seen *you* (well, in a dream), and you didn't look Finnish!
< 1293031686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, I'm pretty sure you were on the blacker side of brown. So maybe not very accurate.
< 1293031702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also you wore sunglasses and were bald.
< 1293031719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, were you bald or did your hair just look like thick fibre-optic cables...
< 1293031726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, for heaven's sake, I don't know.
< 1293031726 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293031736 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if there's any sort of product to test for Swedishness.
< 1293031750 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, http://www.amazon.com/Parent-Child-Testing-Product-Pack/dp/B002A6HXL6/ -- "Parent Child Testing Product, 5 Pack", $10035.98.
< 1293031759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Erm, Lutefisk : Norwegians :: ? : Swedes?
< 1293031796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Man, that parent child testing product looks judgemental.
< 1293032519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I just had a horriterrible idea.
< 1293032568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You know the GNU System thing you mentioned?
< 1293032811 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181134207.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293033001 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293033175 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293033592 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Surströmming.
< 1293033600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Right.
< 1293033604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Feed him that and see if he survives.
< 1293033633 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, only a very small group of swedes like surströmming
< 1293033633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: just checking, you being a lutefisk fan, Surströmming isn't something delicious? :D
< 1293033635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know what it is.)
< 1293033645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nope all of you
< 1293033650 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the majority think it is weird and wouldn't touch it.
< 1293033658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/Surstroemmngsklaemma.png every swede eats this every day
< 1293033686 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then I'm no Swede by your definition. Nor is some 90% of the rest of population
< 1293033699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: of course
< 1293033711 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is a local speciality in parts of north Sweden.
< 1293033727 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: by all i've read, surströmming is far more vile than lutefisk
< 1293033727 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and always beware of that)
< 1293033733 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, quite
< 1293033748 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and lutfisk occurs in Sweden to.
< 1293033761 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, almost none like it these days
< 1293033779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :northern sweden sounds like crazy land
< 1293033875 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, quite
< 1293034397 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the heck is that (and I hope that milk is whole milk...)?
< 1293034452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: It's DISGUSTINGNESS
< 1293034466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Surströmming with potatoes, onion on tunnbröd."
< 1293034499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Surströmming itself is, of course, rotting fish.
< 1293034509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because god dammit, we're Swedes, we're vikings, we're HARDCORE.
< 1293034536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[In April 2006, several major airlines (such as Air France and British Airways) banned the fish citing that the pressurized cans of fish are potentially explosive. The sale of the fish was subsequently discontinued in Stockholm's international airport. Those who produce the fish have called the airline's decision "culturally illiterate," claiming that it is a "myth that the tinned fish can explode."[6]]]
< 1293034541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I support cultural illiteracy.
< 1293034554 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least pretend that way... Well, in the past, real hardcore people existed...
< 1293035190 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lagging in mc is somewhat fixed
< 1293035194 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i get 40 fps now
< 1293035703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: as the premier wiki sysop, you should slap cpressey for decreasing the sum total of the world's happiness significantly: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brainfuck&curid=1138&diff=20541&oldid=20540
< 1293035832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1293035836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In addition, no well-defined algorithm has yet been devised that a universal Turing machine is demonstrably incapable of executing." --[[Esolang:Turing machine]]
< 1293035838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just stupid
< 1293035855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either we define well-defined algorithm = list of instructions in a TC language, and it's a tautology
< 1293035873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "determine whether a Turing machine halts" is a well-defined algorithm that a UTM is demonstrably incapable of executing
< 1293035874 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293035882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone rewrite that
< 1293035931 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293036575 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Because god dammit, we're Swedes, we're vikings, we're HARDCORE. <-- only some madmen up north
< 1293036611 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : What the heck is that (and I hope that milk is whole milk...)? <-- why do you hope that
< 1293036705 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm I just had the mad idea of a brainfuck supercompiler
< 1293036743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, if it's not a specialiser I don't acre.
< 1293036744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*care.
< 1293036770 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, I was thinking along the lines of partial evaluation
< 1293036772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, so supercompilers do usually do something close to specialisation.)
< 1293036777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Specialisation == partial evaluation.
< 1293036809 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but it seems rather tricky for bf, since the alias analysis is basically a hell, and figuring out previous state is not always that easy.
< 1293036833 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes quite
< 1293036858 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I never claimed those were different.
< 1293036865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, the more abstract a language it is the better you can compile it (dynamism is a separate factor that makes compilation more difficult; it just happens that more abstract languages tend to be more dynamic).
< 1293036876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's hardly surprising that compiling BF well is near-impossible. :p
< 1293036882 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mutable state makes it a lot trickier too
< 1293036899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, mutable state is effectively an anti-abstraction and an element of dynamism, so yeah.
< 1293036913 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh *looks up what dynamism is exactly*
< 1293036924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Dynamic languages are very dynamic.
< 1293036929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Changing things at runtime = dynamism.
< 1293036938 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293036945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Scheme's ability to redefine + is dynamism; it makes Scheme harder to compile efficiently, since you can't inline calls to it.
< 1293036954 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is "things" here code? or data too?
< 1293036958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything.
< 1293036980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk's extreme late binding is dynamism; it makes Smalltalk harder to compile because you have to do a lot of table lookups by strings, rather than hardcoding memory locations to load, store, and jump to.
< 1293036991 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, by /strings/?
< 1293037004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes; "foo abc: 3" looks up "abc:" in foo and passes it 3.
< 1293037015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If you change the abc: method, and call whatever method did "foo abc: 3", it will get the new method.
< 1293037026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is because everything is looked up at the latest possible moment -- right when it's used, i.e. late binding.
< 1293037026 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can't you compile identifiers into some table and then use that integer to look up
< 1293037028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is dynamism.
< 1293037031 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like an atom table
< 1293037036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sort of.
< 1293037038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes.
< 1293037041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not quite that simple.
< 1293037044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it was just an example.
< 1293037045 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293037048 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1293037062 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but doing it by strings sound incredibly stupid
< 1293037071 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds*
< 1293037073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes; I forget how most Smalltalks do it.
< 1293037100 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, now you made me imagine a bashtalk (along the lines of bashforth)
< 1293037129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: BTW, the insane idea I was going to tell to pikhq but he's not here: GNUGNUGNU/Linux. It's Linux, and then everything on top of that that can feasibly be GNU *IS*. That means even GNU inetutils. Additionally, everything is done The GNU Way, no matter how impractical that is.
< 1293037134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: For instance, all package management will be done with GNU stow.
< 1293037155 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what does inetutils contain now again
< 1293037159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ping etc.
< 1293037162 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293037164 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, stow?
< 1293037172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: inetutils is maintained by the *wonderful human being* called ams.
< 1293037174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may have heard of him.
< 1293037191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stow is:
< 1293037192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"GNU Stow is a program for managing the installation of software packages, keeping them separate (/usr/local/stow/emacs vs. /usr/local/stow/perl, for example) while making them appear to be installed in the same place (/usr/local)."
< 1293037194 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the tla sounds familiar, that is all
< 1293037206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its design is based on Carnegie-Mellon's Depot.
< 1293037207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gnu.org/software/stow/manual.html
< 1293037228 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the separate thing reminds me of gobolinux and such
< 1293037241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, it's a much older concept than that. :p
< 1293037247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU Stow is positively bleh.
< 1293037255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Heh, have you actually used it? :)
< 1293037257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway ams is an IRC jackass and troll.
< 1293037272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Who is probably rms' secret lover or something.
< 1293037276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes; the GNU System testing images used it.
< 1293037296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: They're HURD-based, though, aren't they?
< 1293037305 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not familiar
< 1293037306 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: IIRC, it's intended to be replaced with Stowfs.
< 1293037308 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah.
< 1293037314 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think I heard ams in some other context
< 1293037323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: See, mine is meant for Linux, because then we can SPREAD THE GOSPEL to other platforms.
< 1293037332 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh
< 1293037334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Anyway stow seems like a "good idea" to me apart from the implementation details.
< 1293037335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ?
< 1293037340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i.e. using symlinks.
< 1293037349 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, of course it sounded familiar. AMS.
< 1293037354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: heh
< 1293037382 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which seems to be rather overloaded btw
< 1293037450 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, stow's actually quite alright aside from implementation details.
< 1293037457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: once he asked me a question about C99 and I first quoted POSIX to him, which he said didn't count because it wasn't C99, I pointed out that it was unlikely to contradict the C standard (IIRC it was the behaviour of free(NULL) or something); I then found a C99 draft standard /newer/ (2007) than C99 itself, and quoted that to him, and he said that a draft didn't count since it wasn't C99, I said I don't have a copy of C99 to hand but I doub
< 1293037457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t it changed since C99 was published, and then he called me a liar because C99 wasn't published in 2007, and then when I said he was being awfully rude to someone who went out of their way to help, he /ignored me.
< 1293037463 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Which is why stowfs was a WIP.
< 1293037463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was before I knew who he was.
< 1293037466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pleasant chap. :p
< 1293037481 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heh
< 1293037491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (Later he started whining at the distro maintainers to make all software in the repositories Free As In FSF because it was an issue of "respect" for your users.)
< 1293037500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (Apparently he doesn't actually /use/ the distro.)
< 1293037509 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as for POSIX not contradicting, true. However POSIX may define something that C99 leaves undefined. That happened.
< 1293037516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Although he did ask about progress on a MIPS port, so he could run it on some netbook by the same company as rms' TOTALLY-FREE netbook.
< 1293037518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The one he uses.)
< 1293037526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~Free As In FSF netbook buddies~
< 1293037532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, as for POSIX not contradicting, true. However POSIX may define something that C99 leaves undefined. That happened.
< 1293037534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but still.
< 1293037568 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also, I have run into systems that don't follow the C standard on free(NULL). I think they were all ancient or embedded though
< 1293037579 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, even if it is a behavior unique to POSIX, that's still quite important.
< 1293037582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, but he was very explicit about wanting C99's take.
< 1293037600 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, most everything but Windows these days are going to give credence to POSIX.
< 1293037607 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/are/is/
< 1293037611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but just lol @ calling someone who quotes a draft of a post-1999 revision to C99 a liar for implying that C99 was published in 2007.
< 1293037626 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed wtf
< 1293037645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Anyway, the GNU Operating System seemingly  does not include an init system.
< 1293037649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least from scanning http://www.gnu.org/software/software.html.
< 1293037677 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 404!
< 1293037677 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what does hurd use then?
< 1293037686 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, remove the final dot
< 1293037689 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But anyways, I'm reasonably certain it uses init.
< 1293037696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Um, HURD? I think it just uses a shell script.
< 1293037699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or SysV.
< 1293037702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: 404!
< 1293037702 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah
< 1293037703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's 404?
< 1293037713 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: HTTP Error 404!
< 1293037715 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is file not found
< 1293037722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wat.
< 1293037724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gnu.org/software/software.html
< 1293037725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ not 404
< 1293037726 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: totally not what you meant)
< 1293037740 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, as I said, you probably copied the ending dot on the line
< 1293037746 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The . at the end got into the link because it's entirely valid!
< 1293037754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Your client sucks donkey dick!
< 1293037765 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, quite, but I made my client apply a heurstic at that.
< 1293037766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Technical term for clients that are too correct about URLs.)
< 1293037788 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Your URL is a giant donkey dick!
< 1293037791 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should have my site have all pages end in .html.
< 1293037797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: *.html..
< 1293037801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I terminated your sentence for you.
< 1293037817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gnu.org/software/mdk/ oh man so useful
< 1293037839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how some of the software links just go to empty directories.
< 1293037859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gnu.org/software/myserver/ GNU HTTPD!
< 1293037878 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, it's not like GNU only hosts things useful to the GNU system.
< 1293037887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, but that's a list of GNU packages.
< 1293037896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the bulk of the platonic ideal GNU Operating System.
< 1293037898 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Here's what it takes to get it into GNU proper: give a FSF copyright assignment.
< 1293037903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And most of it is USELESS.
< 1293037906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, yes.
< 1293037920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still. That list is an amazing glob of worthlessness, with like 10 useful things in it.
< 1293037928 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, well. Yeah.
< 1293037945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, wtf? reddit shows a link on /r/programming/ at +1009 with 852 comments
< 1293037952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what about it?
< 1293037959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when I click at it, it's on +0 with 3 comments
< 1293037967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cache... but still, wow.
< 1293037972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's quite a cache effect
< 1293037972 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"reddit is under heavy load right now, sorry. Try again in a few minutes."
< 1293037973 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.gnu.org/software/mdk/ oh man so useful <-- missing ending dot!
< 1293037985 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try again later
< 1293038002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/trac/ggc http://codu.org/projects/trac/gggc
< 1293038004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it's actually happening to every link there
< 1293038007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/trac/ggggc
< 1293038012 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The displayed karma is random.
< 1293038012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've figured out Gregor's versioning system.
< 1293038016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Duplicate the first letter."
< 1293038034 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Prepend g."
< 1293038054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Maybe the first one was called c, and it collected everything, not just garbage.
< 1293038075 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was the acronym for that, anyways?
< 1293038085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gregor's General-purpose Generational Garbage Collector."
< 1293038094 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right.
< 1293038098 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Gs!
< 1293038119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[# Never ever EVER have interior pointers. Ever. EVER. GGGGC relies on all GC pointers being to the base of an object.]]
< 1293038122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*[[#
< 1293038132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Any way to relax that? I really want to use GGGGC for this project, but ...
< 1293038140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it'd be simpler still to have a GC that required all pointers to be NULL
< 1293038146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could just garbage-collect everything on the heap
< 1293038146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What if the interior pointers are always to the start of a given element in a structure?
< 1293038153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (And I can specify which element at pointer-creation-time.)
< 1293038181 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Interior pointers make garbage collection both painful and slow.
< 1293038232 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why do you need interior pointers?
< 1293038233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Let's put it this way: the only kind I really need is "__typeof__(s->x) *foo = gc_pointer_to(s, offsetof(s, x));".
< 1293038237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 'cuz I do.
< 1293038242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well.
< 1293038243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe.
< 1293038272 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, just keep an extra pointer around?
< 1293038275 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, to the base I mean
< 1293038330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, wait
< 1293038335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would this even disallow (some_string + n)?
< 1293038353 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well duh
< 1293038361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1293038364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any way to relax that Gregor? :P
< 1293038379 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, some_string[n]
< 1293038386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I need a fix in the _GC_.
< 1293038389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: note: strings will always have their lengths encoded before them.
< 1293038398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the GC will always know where a string ends, even just having a pointer to the start
< 1293038407 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION returns.

< 1293038415 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott,  elliott: Interior pointers make garbage collection both painful and slow.
< 1293038428 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and the GC will always know the end anyway
< 1293038437 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as free() does know the end of the allocated block
< 1293038441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, but in this case it's /one special case/. I realise it won't be as fast, I just need it decent.
< 1293038445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll still beat boehm.
< 1293038471 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why is indexing so hard?
< 1293038473 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wondering
< 1293038488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The question is not "do I need (s+n)?", it's "can I make GGGGGGGGGGGGC support (s+n)?".
< 1293038505 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you know /why/ it is slow to suppor that?
< 1293038510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1293038512 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :support*
< 1293038513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Yes.
< 1293038514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid numpad
< 1293038532 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what XD
< 1293038547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pressed the . numpad key, but numlock was off so it did [del], which did nothing since i was at eol.
< 1293038564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used the numpad . because I had already completed the sentence, and moved my hands away without realising.
< 1293038568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it was the closest ..
< 1293038570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*".".
< 1293038572 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my numpad seems broken btw
< 1293038582 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow , -> 0 and 0 -> nothing
< 1293038588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like my numpad, it gives me bad habits.
< 1293038589 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf
< 1293038601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only recently started being able to type numbers with the normal row.
< 1293038623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I might just use boehm.
< 1293038624 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, only time I use numpad is for navigation in various games
< 1293038627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good enough.
< 1293038643 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, interior pointers is an option for boehm iirc. And it slows it down even more
< 1293038661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Presumably on by default due to the commonness of (s+n)...
< 1293038696 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think it is a global-variable-before-GC_init() style of option
< 1293038699 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure
< 1293038708 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Default.
< 1293038713 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm
< 1293038714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1293038718 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that's stupid
< 1293038722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really.
< 1293038722 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It tries not to break behavior of anything that's valid C.
< 1293038726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(s+n) is very common.
< 1293038749 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it will gleefully change various forms of undefined behavior, which can break programs.
< 1293038751 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but if you were doing manual memory management you would need a pointer to the base anyway, or you couldn't call free() on it
< 1293038929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I mean using (s+n) temporarily, calling a function with it.
< 1293038933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not throwing away s completely from the program.
< 1293038941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(What, would GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGC support that?)
< 1293038989 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not sure GGGGC is conservative.
< 1293039005 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... No, wait, it'd have to be.
< 1293039018 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think?
< 1293039019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It isn't.
< 1293039025 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, then.
< 1293039026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You have to do all reads and writes through a macro because Gregor is a masochist.
< 1293039031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, a sadist. But he uses it himself.
< 1293039033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So masochist too.
< 1293039043 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no freaking way you're getting internal pointers to work without much pain and agony.
< 1293039059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, but is string_function(s+n) okay, as long as you keep a hold of s in the calling function?
< 1293039068 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news: bsnes's unsupported game list is down by one.
< 1293039094 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if the parent function still holds a pointer to it?
< 1293039099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes.
< 1293039104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Does it move objects around in memory?
< 1293039113 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, of course, rewrite pointers?
< 1293039118 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it doesn't, then that will work.
< 1293039123 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then I don't see why it is an issue if you also have an internal pointer
< 1293039163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be fine then.
< 1293039179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So can OGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGC collect garbage in a separate thread, too? :p
< 1293039189 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, O?
< 1293039201 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also define each of those Gs you just used
< 1293039210 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1293039244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OGGGGGGGGGGGGC was just a reference to that OGC name thing.
< 1293039253 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, OGC?
< 1293039258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, http://www.eatliver.com/img/2008/3028.jpg.
< 1293039266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UK government organisation.
< 1293039273 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293039300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[A spokesman for OGC said: “It is true that it caused a few titters among some staff when viewed on its side, but on consideration we concluded that the effect was generic to the particular combination of the letters OGC - and it is not inappropriate to an organisation that’s looking to have a firm grip on Government spend.”]]
< 1293039309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and it is not inappropriate to an organisation that’s looking to have a firm grip on Government spend."
< 1293039327 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah wtf about that
< 1293039338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's called a joke.
< 1293039354 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is it really that far fetched
< 1293039357 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so ugh
< 1293039364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "that far fetched"?
< 1293039366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's bloomin' obvious.
< 1293039717 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1293039726 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I guess I must have used a bloom filter then
< 1293039736 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay, bad pun)
< 1293039932 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293039948 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293040079 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293040466 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1293041719 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott?
< 1293041799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1293041867 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isomorphism notion is Ob -> Ob -> Type, rather than -> Prop. Do you think that matters? I could redefine what an equivalence relation is to allow Type instead of Prop
< 1293041881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yeah i don't think it matters
< 1293041885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Coq Prop is rather restricted IMO
< 1293041915 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't want to go another 300 lines and realize I made a mistake
< 1293041985 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and what about equality of maps? should f = g be in Prop or Type?
< 1293042053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I think if one thing is in Type all of them should be
< 1293042061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: but, is it possible to make the isomorphism -> Prop by restricting it?
< 1293042064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, eh, it doesn't matter
< 1293042074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I end up putting sets into Type all the time, no reason not to put Props there
< 1293042079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coq doesn't have proof irrelevance anyway
< 1293042119 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just for equality of functors, we have F=G meaning that Ff=Gf but Ff : FX -> FY and Gf : GX -> GY
< 1293042133 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we need a way to cast FX <-> GX
< 1293042175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1293042188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems fine to me
< 1293042226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: is extensive generic (void *) hackery ok with GGGGGGGGGC?
< 1293043091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't see how any GC can manage that, if it actually collects things
< 1293043100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about storing pointers in files and reading them back later?
< 1293043126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: actually, I just mean having things like linked lists with (void *) elements
< 1293043224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, today I learnt that most new Windows software with an auto-updater installs its executables the equivalent of suid root
< 1293043229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid UAC prompts when it updates
< 1293043233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that... defeats the point
< 1293043233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1293043720 0 :OoS!~John@87.114.29.124 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293043723 0 :OoS!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-)
< 1293043733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1293043794 0 :OoS!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just clearing out some old computer books to make space for a few new ones :-/
< 1293044050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OoS: BUY MORE BOOKSHELVES
< 1293044082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I just keep them mixed with a bunch of other books in a pile on the floor
< 1293044088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or occasionally, in other people's bedrooms
< 1293044101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(general rule of house physics: people are loath to throw out anything in their own bedroom, you can exploit this fact)
< 1293044114 0 :OoS!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 14 shelves of books (mostly programming / computing / caving)
< 1293044138 0 :OoS!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus more in boxes / cupboards :-(
< 1293044142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's brilliant
< 1293044148 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hah
< 1293044172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now progress to Joey Hess stage -- use that for all possessions, and live in yurts
< 1293044183 0 :OoS!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wouldn't work, my girlfriend loves to throw stuff out
< 1293044187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimal debian-developing hobo status achieved
< 1293044204 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, who is that guy
< 1293044225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/
< 1293044228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: he wrote the debian-installer
< 1293044231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :among other things
< 1293044241 0 :OoS!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, I'm getting rid of stuff I likely won't need.  Assembly programming books for 68000, 6809...
< 1293044246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he lives in a yurt. http://kitenet.net/~joey/yurt/
< 1293044255 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh the guy with palm  investigation?
< 1293044258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah
< 1293044265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: his living expenses are flat 0, IIRC
< 1293044274 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : he lives in a yurt. http://kitenet.net/~joey/yurt/ <-- as in, permanently?
< 1293044277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes.
< 1293044291 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, somewhere warm I assume? or a hoax?
< 1293044304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno how warm it is. Probably relatively.
< 1293044308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a hoax, no, he really lives like that
< 1293044323 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erdős famously did the "hobo mathematician" thing.
< 1293044339 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh, does he have a more normal house as well?
< 1293044344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No.
< 1293044345 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh? I didn't know that
< 1293044350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: As I said, his expenses are roughly 0.
< 1293044357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mortgage or rent = expense.
< 1293044370 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, aiee! http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/pics/snowyurt.jpg
< 1293044374 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "Possessions meant little to Erdős; most of his belongings would fit in a suitcase, as dictated by his itinerant lifestyle. Awards and other earnings were generally donated to people in need and various worthy causes. He spent most of his life as a vagabond, traveling between scientific conferences and the homes of colleagues all over the world."
< 1293044377 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... "He would typically show up at a colleague's doorstep and announce "my brain is open," staying long enough to collaborate on a few papers before moving on a few days later. In many cases, he would ask the current collaborator about whom he (Erdős) should visit next. His working style has been humorously compared[by whom?] to traversing a linked list."
< 1293044377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you're a swede, be more hardcore.
< 1293044391 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, we have thick walls for a reason
< 1293044398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: VIKING
< 1293044399 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's around -25 C outside now
< 1293044402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: VIKING
< 1293044406 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm not :P
< 1293044448 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's -12.75 in Otaniemi now (it's far easier to browse to outside.hut.fi than to amble to the thermometer in the window), but they've predicted -15 to -25 for christmas.
< 1293044483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh ofc, I forgot ikiwiki
< 1293044486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: he wrote ikiwiki too
< 1293044502 0 :OoS!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The yurt looks cool.  I've slept in worse places.
< 1293044524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be kinda cool to do the hobo thing, but i need an internet connection... and heating
< 1293044531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1293044534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good internet connection, rather
< 1293044548 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's got both :-P
< 1293044550 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, outside.hut.fi should really respond to finger requests, that's how all the cool internet-connected coffee pots / cola vending machines / etc. used to be connected.
< 1293044552 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, see image on the page you linked
< 1293044570 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what XD
< 1293044582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I see no evidence of a /good/ internet connection
< 1293044591 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I see no evidence of a bad one
< 1293044597 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ethernet
< 1293044605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's America, isn't it?
< 1293044608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's gonna be like 2 Mbit.
< 1293044609 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1293044611 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, who knows where the ethernet goes
< 1293044618 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, presumably to a *HOUSE*?
< 1293044619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Into a dead badger, obviously.
< 1293044621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running Linux.
< 1293044629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think it's some way away from a friend's house or something.
< 1293044635 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm
< 1293044637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have his living situation exactly memorised, that would be creepy :P
< 1293044645 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: See for example the finger RFC (1288) chapter 2.5.5 "Vending machines": http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1288.txt
< 1293044645 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, -12? that's nothing
< 1293044662 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slow to load
< 1293044690 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IETF tends to be. There's faster places to get RFCs from, of course.
< 1293044711 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait a second.... this isn't april
< 1293044714 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so wtf
< 1293044727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fingering vending machines sounds a bit niche.
< 1293044736 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what all the cool universities had.
< 1293044766 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Vending machines should NEVER NEVER EVER eat money." <-- this make it sound like a joke rfc (it is too unrealistic)
< 1293044774 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I had one Internet book from the pre-web era, it listed a few fingerable vending machines around the world.
< 1293044780 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, doesn't fit into a serious rfc, would use MUST then)
< 1293044793 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, XD
< 1293044837 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very useful to see how many bottles of cola there are in some California university's cs department's corridor X.
< 1293044839 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sound implementation of Finger is of the utmost importance. Implementations should be tested against various forms of attack.  In particular, an RUIP SHOULD protect itself against malformed inputs. Vendors providing Finger with the operating system or network software should subject their implementations to penetration testing."
< 1293044850 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, that last sentence sounds....
< 1293044874 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seriously, was finger named to maximise uncomfortableness of using the names?)
< 1293045026 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Earnest named his program after the idea that people would run their fingers down the who list to find what they were looking for.
< 1293045047 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The earliest Finger RFC (742) from 1977 is pretty non-modern; port numbers in octal and it isn't really much of a protocol at that point.
< 1293045149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would anyone write port numbers in octal?
< 1293045187 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ICP to socket 117 (octal, 79. decimal) and establish two 8-bit connections."
< 1293045312 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1293045320 0 :micahjohnston!~Adium@174-23-72-242.slkc.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293045326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Earnest named his program after the idea that people would run their fingers down the who list to find what they were looking for.
< 1293045327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously?
< 1293045331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the stupidest etymology ever.
< 1293045386 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ICP?
< 1293045434 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't really know what it refers to; I strongly suspect it's not the modern web-cache thing.
< 1293045449 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RFC123 speaks of ICPs.
< 1293045453 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't know the modern meaning either
< 1293045470 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICP was on ARPANET
< 1293045483 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Control_Program
< 1293045504 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293045533 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. Anyway, the ICP socket number 79 does match the current Finger TCP port number, so I guess they just reused that.
< 1293045574 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And maybe ICP socket numbers used to be in octal, then.
< 1293045683 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One wonders if some day this "HTTP" thing will sound equally quaint and historical.
< 1293045704 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One would hope so.
< 1293045738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You had to use your hands? etc.
< 1293045755 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that sounds even dirtier!
< 1293045762 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Video Game Boy #1: You mean you have to use your hands?
< 1293045763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Video Game Boy #2: That's like a baby's toy!
< 1293045769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Thank imdb for the really-useful character names.)
< 1293045786 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what movie is it from?
< 1293045799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bttfii.
< 1293045806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pronounced "butt-fee", clearly.
< 1293045830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh back to the future
< 1293045832 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1293045836 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was ages since I saw that
< 1293045848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Number two. :p
< 1293045857 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also ages ago I saw it
< 1293045867 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, was it 3 in total? I don't remember
< 1293045869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahah: http://www.theasylum.cc/product.php?id=174 Titanic II.
< 1293045875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anything The Asylum won't push out?
< 1293045883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. Unless they've made Bttfiv.
< 1293045898 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "the asylum"?
< 1293045960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The people who brought you such quality films as "The Da Vinci Treasure", "Pirates of Treasure Island", "Snakes on a Train", "AVH: Alien vs Hunter", "Transmorphers", "The Terminators" and "Paranormal Entity".
< 1293045970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes with ROBOTIC DINOSAURS.
< 1293045971 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, snakes on a train?
< 1293045975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Asylum
< 1293045977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes.
< 1293045979 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also I never heard of any of these movies
< 1293045985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No -- but you may have heard of
< 1293045990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Da Vinci Code
< 1293045993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pirates of the Caribbean
< 1293045995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snakes on a Plain
< 1293045999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alien vs Predator
< 1293046000 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Plain/Plane/
< 1293046001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transformers
< 1293046002 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, the first is a book and suchs
< 1293046003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Terminator
< 1293046004 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sucks*
< 1293046006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Paranormal Activity.
< 1293046007 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes of course
< 1293046013 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not the last one
< 1293046017 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all the other ones
< 1293046027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. Now observe: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/32/Quartermainskulls.jpg
< 1293046059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now you understand what The Asylum does.
< 1293046061 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what an obvious rip off
< 1293046063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, probably.)
< 1293046079 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how come lucasfilm didn't sue them?
< 1293046081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, but to be fair, the Sherlock Holmes film that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherlock_Holmes_%282010_film%29 rips off did NOT have exploding dinosaurs, as far as I am aware.
< 1293046083 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or is it parody?
< 1293046089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not parody... well, sort of.
< 1293046124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's hard to distinguish the two sides close to the line dividing super-blatant, super-terrible ripoffs and super-blatant, super-terrible ripoffs that make fun of themselves.
< 1293046141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But god dammit, ROBOTIC DINOSAURS.
< 1293046164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As to where this film fits into the Canon of Sherlock Holmes is unclear." --Wikipedia
< 1293046169 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1293046179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the BEST PLACE.
< 1293046237 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293046239 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293046243 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Not to be confused with Sherlock Holmes (2009 film)." I was confused there a bit; I saw some Sherlock Holmes trailers somewhere, and wondered how I managed to miss exploding dinosaurs.
< 1293046262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: UNFORTUNATELY YOU SAW ONLY THE TRAILERS FOR THE INFERIOR MOVIE
< 1293046272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, I would rather watch the terrible one with exploding dinosaurs.
< 1293046276 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The inferior movie looked quite silly too.
< 1293046322 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, purely based on the trailer it looked like it was more explosions and action and so on, whereas from the "Sherlock Holmes" part I was expecting something, you know, that'd have involved, I don't know, thinking.
< 1293046355 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trailers tend to concentrate on explosions and action.
< 1293046391 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always dislike trailers for that reason
< 1293046392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: From what I've heard it was actually a pretty good film.
< 1293046400 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was.
< 1293046401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Supposedly they slowed some of the fight sequences to fit more thinking in there. :p
< 1293046413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want a bad trailer?
< 1293046414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND7tU8JME_g
< 1293046416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try Office Space's.
< 1293046418 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's true, and Holmes is a pretty active guy even in the books; it just looked somewhat overdone.
< 1293046451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"...comes a movie about people who go to work" You know, I don't recall Office Space involving very much going to work at all.
< 1293046526 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Sherlock Holmes actually got pretty good writeups according to WP/
< 1293046532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_:  fizzie: From what I've heard it was actually a pretty good film.
< 1293046534 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Asylum's version.
< 1293046538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1293046539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome.
< 1293046565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"CIA sets up Wikileaks Task Force. They're calling it WTF."
< 1293046588 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, .. are they trying to put the entire plot in the trailer?
< 1293046593 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, where is that from?
< 1293046599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Pretty much.
< 1293046600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: reddit.
< 1293046604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/21/AR2010122105498.html
< 1293046607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Officially, the panel is called the WikiLeaks Task Force. But at CIA headquarters, it's mainly known by its all-too-apt acronym: W.T.F."
< 1293046618 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD
< 1293046683 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conclusion: the Asylum's film titles are utterly hilarious.
< 1293046844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRANSMORPHERS
< 1293046899 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is something seriously messed up with my graphics drivers.
< 1293046951 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then fix it
< 1293046952 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duhhh
< 1293046979 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293046988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: YO ARE YOU THERE
< 1293046995 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never
< 1293047115 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, websplat on google results pages is weird
< 1293047135 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293047151 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's how Google does images.
< 1293047163 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ah
< 1293047184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Does SPS actually work at all?
< 1293047190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, correction.
< 1293047202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How easy would it be to port SPS to non-apt?
< 1293047228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, um, oh, it looks like you've thrown out all the code... which was in D.
< 1293047237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO I GUESS THE QUESTION IS IRRELEVANT
< 1293047322 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, the flags on http://wiki.inspircd.org/Main_Page don't get the proper yellow border
< 1293047324 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any idea why?
< 1293047349 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, they don't seem to use !important
< 1293047443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...What on earth has that got to do with Gregor.
< 1293047503 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, websplat...
< 1293047509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohh.
< 1293047544 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it was mentioned less than 1/5th of a screenful above
< 1293047890 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, Vorpal assumes that everyone has the same setup as him
< 1293048133 0 :OoS!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1293048280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: PING.
< 1293048375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, my OS makes it unnecessarily ugly to write haskell code
< 1293048399 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, well, even on a small monitor it would be in the same screenfull
< 1293048414 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how do you mean?
< 1293048435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: all the OS' structures are strict, and it has several unsafe operations due to them being immutable
< 1293048453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: for instance, a directory can't be a lazy tree accessed purely, because it can change, and it's evaluated strictly
< 1293048462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning efficient directory-traversing haskell code has to iterate, impurely
< 1293048529 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm, what does directory traversing haskell code do now normally?
< 1293048603 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what OS?
< 1293048716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: any :)
< 1293048718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Be ugly?
< 1293048727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Do a lot of IO, basically.
< 1293049044 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blargh
< 1293049061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: what
< 1293049076 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What was that latest ping, the one that wasn't discovering that SPS killed itself :P
< 1293049162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Nothing at all, I just wanted to see you try and answer my question that is now a non-question.
< 1293049166 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ever finished adventure?
< 1293049214 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as in. /usr/games/adventure
< 1293049218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nope
< 1293049223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: navigation and spelunking
< 1293049225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my two mortal enemies
< 1293049239 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ... why do you play minecraft then?
< 1293049261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: CUBE
< 1293049262 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, I find adventure somewhat hard to navigate in, simply because it is textual. I can't really visualise where I am thus
< 1293050047 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@75-174-222-45.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293050048 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1293050393 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, the repeal of DADT has been signed into law.
< 1293050431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do I say "In other news"?
< 1293050448 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. Did you or I start saying it first?
< 1293050467 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno.
< 1293050632 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, someone made a page with what xyzzy did in hundreds of different text adventure games
< 1293050655 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293050877 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293050883 0 :calamari_!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293050917 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1293050925 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-37.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293050929 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :calamari
< 1293051158 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1293051391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: http://lumeniki.referata.com/wiki/Mercan
< 1293051408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lumeniki.referata.com/wiki/Merca "Songist"
< 1293051414 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note insanity.
< 1293051465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lumeniki.referata.com/wiki/Bodily_excretion
< 1293051469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY FAVOURITE BODILY SECRETIONS
< 1293051531 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293051666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__:
< 1293051666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://lumeniki.referata.com/wiki/Bodily_excretion
< 1293051666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : MY FAVOURITE BODILY SECRETIONS
< 1293051675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doodie, nightwater, smells, nosechewiw and misstrasauce.
< 1293051703 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is creepu.
< 1293051706 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*creepy
< 1293051708 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And insane.
< 1293051717 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1293051735 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293051780 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That IS creepu.
< 1293051810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most crêpe thing I have ever seen.
< 1293051820 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Previous versions had "Menstrual blood"
< 1293051829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the top? :p
< 1293051838 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, no :(
< 1293051840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, no, he hates menstrual blood.
< 1293051847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Sadly? Are you like, a fan of menstrual blood?
< 1293051862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: http://lumeniki.referata.com/wiki/Jesus_%28carnation_Norm_Chomskywalker%29
< 1293051867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1293051871 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes.
< 1293051888 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This guy doesn't seriously think he's a yeti, does he?
< 1293051895 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That has cut deeply through his vaguely-manifested sanity.
< 1293051901 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He loves Noam Chomsky.
< 1293051911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Chomsky.
< 1293051921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: http://lumeniki.referata.com/wiki/EncyclopediaDracula apparently ed gives you diarrhoea
< 1293051925 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He really likes Chomsky.
< 1293051929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the dramatica sense, not the... other sense.
< 1293051934 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somebody add Santorum to that bodily-excretions list :P
< 1293051940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lumeniki.referata.com/wiki/Norm_Chompsky
< 1293051944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW MANY CHOMSKY ARTICLES ARE THERE
< 1293051952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lumeniki.referata.com/wiki/Chomsky
< 1293051953 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, FAR TOO MANY
< 1293051964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://lumeniki.referata.com/wiki/Mostsade what
< 1293051974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But sandorum is only partly excretion!
< 1293051979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: *santorum
< 1293051983 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any way to get this guy some mental health help?
< 1293051994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Free software vs closed source" ;; rms would cry at this title
< 1293051997 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's only partially /bodily/, it's all excretion in that it's excreted.
< 1293052003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I like him just how he is
< 1293052011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You excrete lube?
< 1293052013 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, the thing is, he's been showing some sanity lately.
< 1293052039 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, actual, coherent, well-thought-out arguments.
< 1293052039 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Excreted just means that it comes out of the body, and after the acts that produce santorum, that's where it comes from :P
< 1293052059 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the Venn Diagram correct?
< 1293052063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, sure. ARGUABLY
< 1293052080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Clearly we must EXPERIMENT to determine for sure. Who volunteers?!
< 1293052109 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what Venn diagram?
< 1293052118 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__, the wiki logo
< 1293052126 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it display all possible combinations?
< 1293052171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So, how easy would a HYPOTHETICAL SPS IMPLEMENTATION be to port to non-APT?
< 1293052172 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, that is... that is not a Venn diagram. I don't think it's *meant* to be a Venn diagram.
< 1293052191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: http://lumeniki.referata.com/wiki/File:Dude.jpg it is dude
< 1293052202 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Most of SPS wasn't apt-related at all, it just used that to make guesses about versions.
< 1293052202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not the phattest tom, really.
< 1293052207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And to install packages :P
< 1293052229 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's more-or-less independent of SPS proper.
< 1293052247 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, FUN FACT: that is a real picture of the King of the Dudes.
< 1293052250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Good; how long until SPS 2 is out.
< 1293052256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: i.e. you
< 1293052265 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Seven billion years.
< 1293052273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Can I pay you to make it go faster?
< 1293052277 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, some 19th-Centure New York socialite.
< 1293052287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Centure?
< 1293052288 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Century
< 1293052289 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sure, you'll bring it down to three billion years.
< 1293052289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A journalist of the New York American, Blakely Hall, made Wall famous, proclaiming him in 1888 "King of the Dudes" for having won the "Battle of the Dudes" against Robert "Bob" Hilliard, another sartorial dude when, during the blizzard of 1888, he strode into a bar clad in gleaming boots of patent leather that went to his hips.[4] Nevertheless, some historians still consider it was Hilliard who won that dude battle.[8]"
< 1293052296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How much money for three weeks?
< 1293052296 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's a centaur?
< 1293052316 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sorry, there isn't enough money.
< 1293052320 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I love that quote.
< 1293052334 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It still needs to be based on SOME packaging system y'know :P
< 1293052335 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, let us suppose that there was enough money.
< 1293052342 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much money would that be?
< 1293052363 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: Creating more money just decreases its value, the fundamental issue is that there's not enough /value/ in the universe.
< 1293052387 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, let us suppose there was enough value.
< 1293052392 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much value would that be?
< 1293052397 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have said that the universe isn't large enough to store the smallest possible description
< 1293052403 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In valunits).
< 1293052447 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: Sadly, the limitation of the speed of light prevents anyone from getting that much value to me in less than three weeks, and also if formed into a sphere, its radius would be greater than three lightweeks.
< 1293052472 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, let us suppose the speed of light was big enough.
< 1293052478 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How big would it have to be?
< 1293052517 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders the tactical mind of the guy who wrote the navy reserve expansion to Oolite.

< 1293052518 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: Changing the speed of light would be a fundamental enough change to the universe that value would reduce proportionally.
< 1293052541 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tactics seem to be "let's fly VERY SLOWLY at the enemy until they come into radar range!"
< 1293052579 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I don't want to associate fundamental constants any more today.
< 1293052729 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spent a depressing amount of my life convincing my chemistry teacher that yes, changing the fine structure constant /would/ affect the rate of enzyme function.
< 1293052821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What would you estimate is the value of a brick of antigold?
< 1293052860 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty damned valuable, but we couldn't store it, so it would be far more likely to destroy the Earth and therefore decrease overall global value.
< 1293052903 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure we could. I went to the frictionless pully store and got myself a vacuum bottle for it.
< 1293053047 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, let us suppose the value constant of the universe was big enough. How big would it have to be?
< 1293053056 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's dimensionless)
< 1293053323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: It still needs to be based on SOME packaging system y'know :P
< 1293053327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just factor out the few functions it needs.
< 1293053396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover__: Sadly, the limitation of the speed of light prevents anyone from getting that much value to me in less than three weeks, and also if formed into a sphere, its radius would be greater than three lightweeks.
< 1293053402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It does not matter that the money gets to you in 3 weeks.
< 1293053406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only that it is completed 3 weeks after it arrives.
< 1293053450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BTW, what is cunionfs that unionfs isn't
< 1293053451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*?
< 1293053481 0 :micahjohnston!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1293053659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://ishmodupdated.com/
< 1293053684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a blind, retarded hamster I support this motion of equality.
< 1293053710 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: cunionfs is a per-process union FS. Every process may see a unique union.
< 1293053721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ahh. So it's Plan 9, implemented in FUSE.
< 1293053727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes?
< 1293053739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Plan 9's namespaces, but same thing :P
< 1293053785 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much.
< 1293053820 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was just supposed to be the /usr-mounting part of SPS, the rest is what chooses what to union there, installs things, etc, but then I decided "blar" and din't reimplement the rest :P
< 1293053835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hey, you should make it based on an arbitrary function rather than just getpid.
< 1293053846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That would be COOL. and impractical and COOL.
< 1293053925 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And impossible to do in FUSE.
< 1293053932 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only reason it's possible with FUSE is that I have /proc
< 1293054053 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if a Slashes program ends with \, it simply stops.
< 1293054058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Right.
< 1293054067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is an FS kernel module so hard? :P
< 1293054092 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And //foo/ terminating immediately would be special behavior, it seems.
< 1293054111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: //foo/ infinite loops, no?
< 1293054118 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I should think so.
< 1293054120 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have no idea, I've never written any kernel code.
< 1293054130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ask ais523, his students are writing a KEYLOGGER!
< 1293054134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite this not being possible with vanilla linux
< 1293054136 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooooooooh
< 1293054138 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhhhhhhhh
< 1293054157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And despite them being so incompetent as to write size_t for sizeof because Eclipse completed size as that.
< 1293054162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (Note: They are Masters' students.)
< 1293054190 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured with that kind of incompetence they had to be PhD students.
< 1293054221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: In the UK we optimise incompetence on all levels.
< 1293054565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So is cunionfs actually stable? :P
< 1293054771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I, uh ...
< 1293054775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't sound good.
< 1293054921 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last I checked cunionfs itself was pretty solid.
< 1293055007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Can I call it cuneiformfs?
< 1293055019 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will not stop you from renaming it :P
< 1293055026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, "last I checked" -- has it got less stable since then? :P
< 1293055044 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible that the FUSE APIs have changed in incompatible ways :P
< 1293055080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How old is it exactly? X-D
< 1293055090 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Older than time itself.
< 1293055131 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 months apparently
< 1293055133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 2009 -- older than time itself.
< 1293055135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1293055155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:05 Changeset [3:3045e8c02021] by Gregor Richards 
< 1293055156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    cunionfs/cunionfs.c: Support for symlinks.
< 1293055170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see that by the end of its development it had already been feature-complete for quite a while!
< 1293055174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, for a whole two revisions.
< 1293055312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Maybe I'll just use stow :P
< 1293055325 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don't care.
< 1293055337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But how will you get my royalty money
< 1293055339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*money?
< 1293055411 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In principle SPS is like stow, minus the fact that stow has a rather "static" view of the installed directory. SPS just lets multiple users see different views. Since that's almost always useless in "non-enterprise" settings anyway, do whateverTF you want.
< 1293055418 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's cunionfs?
< 1293055434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But I /am/ an Enterprise and I want to give you five billion monies.
< 1293055452 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: The only component of SPS I ever ported to C :P
< 1293055459 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPS?
< 1293055467 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: cunionfs is a unionfs that lets each process see its own union.
< 1293055474 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: SPS is dead. Long live SPS.
< 1293055477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cunionfs is leftist scum, basically.
< 1293055486 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do I get five billion monies for writing gravity?
< 1293055488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Down with the unions!
< 1293055494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: No. You get six!
< 1293055508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: Did you ever do collision?
< 1293055516 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in a sense!
< 1293055542 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If two point masses (i.e. black holes) collide, the system divides by zero and crashes.
< 1293055559 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like in real life!
< 1293055560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: I ... I really hope our universe works like that.
< 1293055585 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*note: I am unsure if singularities actually "exist" in GR.
< 1293055617 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the sense that they are either entirely in your past or in your future, so they can't really do anything.
< 1293055694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: Make it instead blow everything up.
< 1293055697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crashing is so boring.
< 1293055715 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, blowing things up? That'll be 20 gajillion moneys.
< 1293055722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: http://ishmodupdated.com/
< 1293055723 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*monies
< 1293055742 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did you do that?
< 1293055750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1293055753 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://isthatcherdeadyet.co.uk/
< 1293055763 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A correlation!
< 1293055770 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what is the causal relation...
< 1293055785 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Thatcher wasn't dead, then hmod wasn't updated.
< 1293055800 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So logically, killing Thatcher will update hMod.
< 1293055805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't it be no, not not.
< 1293055841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's "NOT YET".
< 1293055844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My zoom broke it.
< 1293055876 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sooo.
< 1293055885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: ?
< 1293055895 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remind me how to do the collision mechanics for non-trivial shapes.
< 1293055949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: Make a rectangle. Collide that rectangle.
< 1293055954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make the rectangle slightly smaller than the object.
< 1293055960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor can attest to this method's effectiveness.
< 1293055973 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WebSplat's collision detection is the suck
< 1293055980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for working well, yes, yes it is :P
< 1293056002 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, surely compiled CL can be a little more decadent than JS?
< 1293056032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Please explain to Phantom_Hoover__ that rectangle collision is how the world works.
< 1293056044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, "the world" being "2D games"
< 1293056047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*games".
< 1293056063 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the big problem with that is that it handles rotation horribly.
< 1293056081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: Why?
< 1293056089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just rotate the rectangle.
< 1293056104 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and then how do you actually *check* if there's a collision?
< 1293056132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: "Does this rectangle intersect with this other rectangle?"
< 1293056200 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I can't think of an efficient way to do so that doesn't extend to arbitrary polygons.
< 1293056213 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least triangles and ellipses.
< 1293056248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collision_detection#Video_games
< 1293056253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: You don't tilt the rectangles, obviously.
< 1293056258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You still keep the lines straight.
< 1293056274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just rotate the rectangle and interpolate from that to make another rectangle; at least that's what /I'd/ do.
< 1293056275 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You just rotate the rectangle.
< 1293056279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes, yes, shut up.
< 1293056292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: Of course you could do arbitrary collision and it'd probably work... but surely there are more worthwhile things to spend CPU time on.
< 1293056309 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically we're back to "split shape up into lots of little rectangles and use rectangle method."
< 1293056320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1293056324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One rectangle per shape.
< 1293056332 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when you tilt?
< 1293056334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, ehh, I may be wrong, ask Gregor :P
< 1293056341 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rotate?
< 1293056345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: Tilt the rectangle; from that, compute another, straight-edged rectangle, with the approximate same dimensions.
< 1293056355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can do this without actually tilting the rectangle, obviously.)
< 1293056371 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I do not understand what you are saying at all.
< 1293056378 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some sort of diagram is in order.
< 1293056392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: Don't worry -- I don't either.
< 1293056441 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, last thing: do we want accurateish physics or speed?
< 1293056469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: If we can get 30fps with semi-decent hardware (i.e. better than our laptops) I'm happy with it.
< 1293056473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's in Amber, not Lisp.
< 1293056485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: (I think programming the whole world to a 30 Hz tick is the simplest.)
< 1293056506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: But, eh -- do general polygon collision.
< 1293056508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might just be fast enough.
< 1293056521 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how to do that!
< 1293056525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: But if bullets are objects too, then we might be looking at thousands of objects at once :P
< 1293056527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: So figure it out!
< 1293056529 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's basically how this got started!
< 1293056532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: Okay fine.
< 1293056535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: Do it any way you want.
< 1293056538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just google :P
< 1293056547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: http://gpwiki.org/index.php/Polygon_Collision
< 1293056548 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, how would you do this.
< 1293056554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complete with broken images, but there you go.
< 1293056563 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293056566 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[In order to prevent embarrassing situations where game objects move right through each other without even noticing, a lot of games utilize some kind of collision detection system. ]]
< 1293056591 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pshht.
< 1293056612 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, FWIW, bullets I think would be done as a specialised kind of object.
< 1293056638 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With negligible mass or something, and when they hit something they disappear.
< 1293056650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: http://www.flipcode.com/archives/Basic_Collision_Detection.shtml
< 1293056656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pogopixels.com/blog/2d-polygon-collision-detection/
< 1293056704 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think we should kind of map out what game we want to make.
< 1293056716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: I HAVE NO IDEA YOU'VE REELED ME INTO THIS WITH GRAVITY
< 1293056727 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. multiplayer deathmatch or something a bit more lasting?
< 1293057093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is there a way to use OGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGC without having it automatically-pointer-typedef the defined structures and similar magic?
< 1293057174 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293057199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You know about GCC nested functions, right?
< 1293057222 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nested functions are hilarious
< 1293057229 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the way they're implemented (read: not)
< 1293057250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Right. Returning them is non-kosher, right?
< 1293057255 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: very
< 1293057259 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they live on the stack
< 1293057299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Hmm. Can one use __builtin_whatever to access gcc's implementation of Ayn Rand^W^WObjectivist-C blocks from a non-Shrugging-Atlas language?
< 1293057307 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, IIRC the GCC manual says "you can pass the function pointer if you want, but really bad things will happen if you call it after the parent function's stack frame has exited."
< 1293057310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Those copy, I think.
< 1293057318 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: blocks?
< 1293057328 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, those have their own fun
< 1293057333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Meaning?
< 1293057354 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: their implementation is different
< 1293057361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Precisely.
< 1293057365 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a __block variable IIRC is actually heap-allocated
< 1293057367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Can I access their implementation outside of Objective-C?
< 1293057370 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ref-counted
< 1293057372 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: -fblocks
< 1293057373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care how ugly or difficult it is.
< 1293057379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Does that just ... enable them in regular C?
< 1293057383 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1293057389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Awesome.
< 1293057393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: (Is there a reason it isn't awesome?)
< 1293057398 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm wait
< 1293057402 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my gcc doesn't appear to have it
< 1293057405 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang does though
< 1293057408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a clang thing.
< 1293057410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ gcc -fblocks
< 1293057410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc: no input files
< 1293057416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, does gcc have anything similar?
< 1293057420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /can/ use clang ... if I have to.
< 1293057425 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: blocks are implemented in some GCCs aren't they?
< 1293057439 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: gcc complaining about no input files trumps gcc complaining about other options
< 1293057445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: heh
< 1293057455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, Apple added them to clang directly, didn't they?
< 1293057458 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell, sometimes gcc will compile before finding out it doesn't know what an option does
< 1293057464 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I had thought they were in some GCCs
< 1293057466 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could be wrong
< 1293057475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe
< 1293057481 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang certainly does
< 1293057484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?q=objective-c+blocks+gcc&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:unofficial&client=iceweasel-a
< 1293057484 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and certainly has -fblocks
< 1293057486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't look like it
< 1293057487 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also -foverloading)
< 1293057494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: maybe just in Apple's gcc?
< 1293057498 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: maybe
< 1293057504 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then the source would have to be available
< 1293057507 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so unlikely
< 1293057520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: basically I'm implementing a language that compiles down to "something gcc or clang (depending on which I pick) accepts"
< 1293057524 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and Apple knows better than to piss RMS off by trying to avoid the GPL)
< 1293057526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: and it has lambdas.
< 1293057527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1293057535 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blocks sound like a reasonable solution
< 1293057545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1293057553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just i'd rather stick with gcc for ... little reason other than being a luddite
< 1293057555 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and overloading)
< 1293057563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: overloading for what?
< 1293057567 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: functions of course
< 1293057579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what, why would I enable that?
< 1293057588 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because I'm trolling you
< 1293057596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: :p
< 1293057597 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know of a good Minecraft server?
< 1293057609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha2: yes, I know of one.
< 1293057610 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha2: {}
< 1293057616 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no
< 1293057631 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, care to divulge this information with me?
< 1293057633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I actually think my language might have function overloading, but it'd be done at the compiler level
< 1293057638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha2: nope! it's down anyway
< 1293057649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I'm already doing my own mangling, for namespaces.
< 1293057650 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1293057657 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah, I can't imagine a meta-compiler getting a lot out of -foverloading
< 1293057686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I wonder how hard it is to add gdb support for a language. :)
< 1293057697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mostly just demangling, since I think #line and the like will already have gdb show the correct source lines)
< 1293057698 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott:I wonder too... :p
< 1293057714 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about expression evaluation?
< 1293057718 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gdb can't do that for C
< 1293057720 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much less your language
< 1293057740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: let's just say that gdb has its own little language and leave it at that :P
< 1293057750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I'm still using C structs and stuff... well, depends how much Gregor's GGGGGGGGC mangles structs
< 1293057753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: how much does it mangle structs?
< 1293058506 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw, for what it is worth, I talked with a prof doing compsci (the "mathy" kind of compsci even) some days ago, and I asked about the issue with what TC really is (mentioning the example with "one-program-only" languages). He said that the original definition of turing-complete really had no concept of input separate from the program, thus it being somewhat ill-defined.
< 1293058537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. But I don't see how you can formulate ais523's proof without some notion of input.
< 1293058558 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, however, he argued that input should /probably/ be considered part of the program
< 1293058587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably, yes, but I can't see how to word ais523's proof without it.
< 1293058607 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe the proof doesn't work then?
< 1293058627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, I mean, I can't see how you'd even /state/ the false proof without having a notion of input.
< 1293058638 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm
< 1293058653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be wrong.
< 1293058662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although you can maybe just rewrite:
< 1293058669 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this is about the price I presume?
< 1293058676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run([P], I) as run([P(I)]).
< 1293058682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where [...] means "the language's equivalent of".
< 1293058687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how do you define that for brainfuck? or a CA?
< 1293058689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The price of what?
< 1293058693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the prize. Yes.
< 1293058694 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wolfram?
< 1293058699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : run([P], I) as run([P(I)]).
< 1293058699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Where [...] means "the language's equivalent of".
< 1293058699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : But how do you define that for brainfuck? or a CA?
< 1293058699 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, damn english
< 1293058723 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know enough about the details of that prize proof to make any sort of constructive comment with regards to it
< 1293058734 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and brainfuck is easy. It is fine without IO. P''
< 1293058744 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that is what you meant
< 1293058749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, you do not understand at all.
< 1293058764 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then what did you mean?
< 1293058778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's say our current form is run(P,I) where P is the program string and I is the input. Let [Q] denote a program string with semantics equivalent to the mathematical expression Q.
< 1293058786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now let's say the input-less run is run'.
< 1293058789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can rewrite:
< 1293058796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run([P], I) as run'([P(I)]).
< 1293058800 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1293058803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I do not know how to define [f(x)] for e.g. Brainfuck, cellular automata, etc.
< 1293058818 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, classical for brainfuck P(I) would be P+"@"+I iirc
< 1293058822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Brainfuck you'd have to do a lot of tape-tracking probably.
< 1293058826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ...wow, you really don't understand at all.
< 1293058832 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh you meant like that
< 1293058834 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1293058835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If you do that why remove input from the equation?
< 1293058839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd gain nothing.
< 1293058881 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true
< 1293058921 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for a CA, what would be P be? the initial state? The rules?
< 1293058947 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I presume the former, but then that seems the same as input
< 1293059004 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but yeah it is a tricky issue in general.
< 1293059019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: P would be the initial state.
< 1293059021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rules are the language.
< 1293059026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :initial state = program
< 1293059027 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1293059031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, CAs don't have input.
< 1293059033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So bad example.
< 1293059040 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right, that is why I got confused
< 1293059103 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, still, I don't think we can define TC sensibly with I/O. Imagine hooking a bf, somehow crippled to be non-TC (exactly how is not important for the concept), but able to do IO to something able to do TC calculations
< 1293059146 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what was Sgeo's bf thing called now again?
< 1293059159 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same idea basically (except with something more interesting)
< 1293059173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, still, I don't think we can define TC sensibly with I/O. Imagine hooking a bf, somehow crippled to be non-TC (exactly how is not important for the concept), but able to do IO to something able to do TC calculations
< 1293059180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure; the combination of those two is TC.
< 1293059185 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah
< 1293059189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TC + non-TC system = TC.
< 1293059403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Unrelatedly, got a better way to write this C99 program? http://sprunge.us/BLMO
< 1293059425 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm not in a C-ish mode really atm. but I'll take a look
< 1293059454 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that's err... interesting
< 1293059461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed :P
< 1293059482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't figure out how to do it in one assignment.
< 1293059485 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I never used variable length elements at the end of structs that were not only allocated dynamically
< 1293059498 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well you could probably do that
< 1293059507 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but I thought you wanted to avoid the extra struct
< 1293059509 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is harder
< 1293059514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, yes, I would rather.
< 1293059528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TBH, I'll probably end up dynamically allocating it and copying the string in.
< 1293059532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e.
< 1293059539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ByteString *str = malloc(sizeof ByteString + 3);
< 1293059542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :str->length = 3;
< 1293059544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :str->alloc = 3;
< 1293059552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strcpy(str->bytes, "abc");
< 1293059553 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I got a hunch how to do it in one assignment. I have no clue how to do it without defining a new struct type
< 1293059559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: One assignment would be cool.
< 1293059569 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, need to look something up for it
< 1293059599 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return (funge_vector) { .x = x, .y = y };
< 1293059604 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you can do that sort of stuff
< 1293059614 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, (btw, this makes splint go mad :D)
< 1293059625 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I suspect you could use the same general idea here
< 1293059643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I already tried that.
< 1293059647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can't cast a struct.
< 1293059649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That syntax is LIES.
< 1293059659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can't even do
< 1293059662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ByteString x = { ... }
< 1293059663 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah... so it's rather special cased syntax
< 1293059667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it thinks "abc" is non-constant
< 1293059671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the pointer could be ANYTHOMG!!
< 1293059673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something
< 1293059675 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err
< 1293059680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously
< 1293059680 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want a pointer to something you need to allocate storage for it, you can't do that in one assignment
< 1293059690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: True.
< 1293059692 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you can assign a constant string, you just did: __str0_v = {3,3,"abc"};
< 1293059695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's compiler output anyway. So no big deal.
< 1293059696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nope
< 1293059701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not with ByteString
< 1293059704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: VLAs are special
< 1293059706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the retarded sense
< 1293059707 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah right
< 1293059720 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why not make it a char*, then you could I think
< 1293059723 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or cost char*
< 1293059733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because that's another memory allocation for no reason?
< 1293059747 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, it would make an extra pointer
< 1293059763 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but the string would go in .rodata
< 1293059778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	ByteString *str = malloc(sizeof ByteString + 3);
< 1293059778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	str->length = 3;
< 1293059778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	str->alloc = 3;
< 1293059778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	memcpy(str->bytes, "abc", 3);
< 1293059780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should do.
< 1293059782 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, suggestion: don't use C
< 1293059784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :str can be reallocated willy-nilly anyway.
< 1293059787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's COMPILER OUTPUT.
< 1293059793 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah...
< 1293059796 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, LLVM IR!
< 1293059798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not writing a compiler that compiles to Haskell, that would just be ridiculous.
< 1293059800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ugh
< 1293059805 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :P
< 1293059807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm doing lambdas, you know! :p
< 1293059812 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, compiling to haskell sounds fun
< 1293059814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Which means I'm probably using clang, for its blocks-in-C support.
< 1293059826 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why not use pikhq's code for that
< 1293059827 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1293059840 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't he even have closures
< 1293059855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not ones you could return.
< 1293059860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is KINDA IMPORTANT
< 1293059961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[They never go back to fix bugs where they occur. They write new code to workaround the earlier failure case. I asked why they don't go back and just fix the bug where it happens. I was told "We can't go back and change it. That code's already done!" Their solution for insuring that failing code will be able to get to its workaround is the GOTO statement. GOTO is sprinkled liberally around other code, pointing to functions and routines that do n
< 1293059961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ot exist yet. If, down the road, it is discovered that the old code has a bug, they find out which GOTOs exist in that code that do not point to anything yet, pick one, and write the workaround there.]]
< 1293059964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've clearly never heard of COME FROM.
< 1293060038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if (Gregor) GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGC works with clang.
< 1293060053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You know what everyone loves??? NAME MANGLING
< 1293060502 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can return the nested function pointers so long as they don't close.
< 1293060514 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well... there are some reasonable cases for it. something like module_func_arity could work for some languages, except the one I know that would want that allows any valid atom for module and function name
< 1293060522 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Which is why my code did manual management of closing instead of using GCC's closing.
< 1293060527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M2myM7awesome_function
< 1293060545 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's technically not guaranteed to work at all, it just happens to.
< 1293060546 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but what about names like is-int?
< 1293060560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsupported
< 1293060567 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so it isn't a scheme-ish
< 1293060853 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what language are you compiling?
< 1293060870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amber
< 1293060882 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, never heard of it, is it an esolang?
< 1293060887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1293060888 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sort of esolang the
< 1293060890 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah
< 1293060893 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then what is it? :D
< 1293060914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1293061168 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, it's his C-with-lambdas-and-GC.
< 1293061296 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__, and something that needs name mangling too
< 1293061555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: Not quite true. plz leave explainin' to me
< 1293061589 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, waiting for that
< 1293061604 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, going to sleep in 5-10 minutes
< 1293061613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, yes.
< 1293061614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was busy.
< 1293061615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so.
< 1293061639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Basically it's a language whose semantics map very directly to C, but with GC, lambdas, saner structure declarations, nicer syntax, foreach and the like, ETC.
< 1293061659 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293061660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm nice
< 1293061664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It reuses (most of) the C standard library (well, with our own string structure and library), and creating bindings is as easy as making a new module, converting (automatically) a C header, and mangling them.
< 1293061667 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293061671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. SDL_Foo you probably want as sdl.foo.
< 1293061681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The target market is basically game development.
< 1293061706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The idea is that you don't need bindings at all because the calling convention is exactly the same, etc.
< 1293061716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Name mangling is for the namespaces/modules.
< 1293061724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M2myM7awesome_function is my.awesome.function.
< 1293061738 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm nice
< 1293061748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :name := M | _
< 1293061765 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you need some bindings to handle your "saner structs"
< 1293061775 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or can you just include a C header file?
< 1293061816 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and you probably need some kind of C-string<->sane-string mapping too
< 1293061847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, you need some bindings to handle your "saner structs"
< 1293061855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By saner structs I just mean you access stack and heap allocates ones the same :P
< 1293061861 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293061863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact I might not have stack structs.
< 1293061867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, and you probably need some kind of C-string<->sane-string mapping too
< 1293061867 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so . = -> ?
< 1293061870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's the one thing that will be mapped.
< 1293061874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just s ===> s->bytes)
< 1293061880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since they're kept null-terminated)
< 1293061886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But yeah, I might just have heap structs only. Not sure.
< 1293061890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No pointer type, I think.
< 1293061924 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm. That will make interfacing with stuff like sdl and allegro a bit more painful
< 1293061929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Why?
< 1293061938 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm pretty sure there are foo **bar style pointers there
< 1293061950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, right, I'll have to see. I can't have totally-general pointers though 'cuz of the GC.
< 1293061959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The first program (well, game) written in it will be Allegro-based. Or SDL.)
< 1293061985 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have to say I find sdl nicer. Even though allegro is higher level
< 1293062003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm going to look at Allegro 5.
< 1293062009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's out real-soon-now.
< 1293062014 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I never really found any use for more than blitting sprites, rotation and drawing primitives. All of which SDL can do
< 1293062020 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah I haven't looked at allegro5
< 1293062026 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only at the older one
< 1293062031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, it's a 2D game here.
< 1293062036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But with quite a lot of things to keep track of.
< 1293062047 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right, I written 2D games with both allegro and sdl.
< 1293062051 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have*
< 1293062071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame Phantom_Hoover__ for this endeavour entirely, BTW.
< 1293062073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not the language.
< 1293062112 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so, do you think you will complete this project within the next few months?
< 1293062117 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or will it be put on hold
< 1293062120 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a lot of other things
< 1293062121 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why was Vorpal asking about PSOX?
< 1293062126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, Phantom_Hoover__'s already written some code and is writing more.
< 1293062138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly it's in Common Lisp, but Phantom_Hoover__ writing code is rare enough that at least some dedication appears to exist.
< 1293062156 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he codes?
< 1293062160 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I wasn't aware of that
< 1293062166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think this is his fifth program. Phantom_Hoover__?
< 1293062174 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I thought he was purely theoretical
< 1293062192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm purely theoretical. I don't exist in practice.
< 1293062209 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and you... code a shitload. Just you do breadth-first not depth-first.
< 1293062226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p
< 1293062240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, Amber is specifically designed to be really easy to compile to C.
< 1293062256 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, still requires writing a parser
< 1293062258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once I have a parser, it should be pretty trivial.
< 1293062259 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell
< 1293062259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, yes.
< 1293062269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm probably going to write the compiler in Python for the "it's there"-ness of it.
< 1293062279 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and parsers I can't help with. Anything more complex than parsing, say, brainfuck I hate
< 1293062294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (The game is probably going to be commercial-but-comes-with-source-that-you-can-distribute-modifications-of, so having the compiler be portable is an added bonus.)
< 1293062304 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 5 is probably generous.
< 1293062318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, I'll be using one of those magic-BNF-parser tools. The C compiler time will dwarf whatever time it takes to translate to C, anyway.
< 1293062324 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, when I absolutely have to parse I tend to do it as basic as possible. Absolutely no "lenient in what you accept"
< 1293062326 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@75-174-222-45.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293062342 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is the game btw?
< 1293062364 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, magic-BNF? lex and yacc?
< 1293062365 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: No route to host
< 1293062372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 2D Newtonian mechanics third-person space flight/combat simulator. We're not sure exactly /what/ it's going to be yet, but something like that.
< 1293062375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Definitely Newtonian.
< 1293062385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Imagine Asteroids, times a few billion.
< 1293062394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also: Localised changes to the laws of physics as a tactical weapon!
< 1293062404 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, asteroids. Don't think I actually played that
< 1293062416 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, isn't it like Ambrosia's Maelstrom?
< 1293062419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's that thing where you're a triangle and there are hollow rocks around you.
< 1293062426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/13/Asteroi1.png
< 1293062432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you spin around shooting them.
< 1293062453 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do large ones break into smaller when hit?
< 1293062464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1293062466 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if so it is exactly like maelstrom, except with worse graphics
< 1293062479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair, it almost certainly predated Maelstrom by a long, long time :P
< 1293062484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1979)
< 1293062485 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes quite
< 1293062491 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you played the latter?
< 1293062498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maelstrom is a 1992[1] clone of Asteroids with an improved graphics and interface.[2][3] Many of Ambrosia's subsequent shareware titles followed in a similar formula.
< 1293062500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't.
< 1293062510 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Maelstrom_screenshot.png
< 1293062516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used exactly two Macs in my life for more than a few seconds, I think.
< 1293062530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One was someone else's eMac I used once, the other is my iMac.
< 1293062536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although to be fair it's rapidly approaching three.
< 1293062539 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emac... what one was that now again?
< 1293062551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you know the original iMac?
< 1293062553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like that, but white.
< 1293062559 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1293062577 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I do know the original imac. And it came in a snow white edition later. And flower power
< 1293062609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.extensions.in.th/post/emac/emac2.jpg
< 1293062614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was short for "education Mac".
< 1293062623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The eMac, short for education Mac, was a Macintosh desktop computer made by Apple Inc. It was originally aimed at the education market, then available as a cheaper mass market option over Apple's second generation iMac. The eMac design closely resembled first-generation iMacs. It sports a PowerPC G4 processor significantly faster than the older iMac's G3 processor, and a larger 17" flat display.
< 1293062627 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293062627 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293062647 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks OS-X-ish
< 1293062653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naw.
< 1293062655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS 8, OS 9.
< 1293062659 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the image it does
< 1293062660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it did last for several years under OS X, yes
< 1293062662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yes.
< 1293062665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until 2005.
< 1293062666 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293062668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, 2005/2006.
< 1293062670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But nobody bought it.
< 1293062685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway we've ruled out MMO because MMO physics, synchronisation and servers sounds like FUN (read: pain).
< 1293062696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So it's either going to be a deathmatch game or [insert other thing here].
< 1293062712 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I know a guy good at MMO
< 1293062714 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a swede
< 1293062721 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think he went by the name notch
< 1293062724 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may ask him
< 1293062729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You have a strange definition of good.
< 1293062733 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD
< 1293062739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also of MMO, Minecraft servers rarely have /that/ many people on them :P
< 1293062754 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed. AND IT IS ALREADY BUGGY!
< 1293062754 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293062761 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BZFlag!
< 1293062771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I feel kinda bad doing copyleft ...
< 1293062783 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BZFlag servers have lots of people on them!
< 1293062783 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, alt: it is MMO for minecraft
< 1293062787 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(massive there = 10)
< 1293062796 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD
< 1293062798 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293062801 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and lots of cheating, but I digress)
< 1293062808 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and copyleft rocks!
< 1293062813 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you are seeing the light
< 1293062821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (As in, the game will be released under "sorta-copyleft": it's copyleft, except you can't distribute anything more than patches in public, basically.)
< 1293062830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because otherwise people could just post the entire source :P
< 1293062848 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you're turning evil?
< 1293062863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Yes; mwahahaha, look at my fangs.
< 1293062879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So evil that I'm considering putting it on a torrent site as a potential solution for slow sales.
< 1293062883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHAHAHA
< 1293062888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: Phantom_Hoover__ is not nearly as insane as me.)
< 1293062910 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, of the two of us, who thought of the negative mass engine?
< 1293062915 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm "On July 5, 2006, an "educational configuration" of the iMac Core Duo was introduced, discontinuing and replacing the entire eMac line. The new iMac has a Combo drive rather than a SuperDrive and a smaller hard disk of 80 GB."
< 1293062920 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this sound feeble
< 1293062934 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean, for education you want power machines
< 1293062940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Are you being serious.
< 1293062941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: Well, okay, you.
< 1293062957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: But I'm crazy enough to want to release the whole thing as free-as-in-beer and open source after sales trickle off!
< 1293062973 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pssht, Notch thought of that.
< 1293062983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAKE THAT, CAPITALISM! I AM GOING TO BE AS NONCONFORMIST AND HIPPIE AS I CAN WHILE STILL RELYING ON THE SALE OF DATA TO MAKE A LIVING!
< 1293062991 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes quite. We all have Core 2 Quad or better in most labs at university. (so there are a few old ones with p4 and CRT iirc, but they are an exception)
< 1293062999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: education != uni
< 1293063001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :education = school
< 1293063007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := budget of approx. £0
< 1293063012 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and they are only there because other computers are non-legacy)
< 1293063025 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and we need parport programmers for some stuff)
< 1293063028 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like FPGAs)
< 1293063031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIT still use Athena :P
< 1293063042 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah but that is software. There is no excuse
< 1293063048 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, FUN FACT: as far as I can tell, the Edinburgh Council computers all have BT branding as their screensavers.
< 1293063059 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__, BT?
< 1293063060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: wat.
< 1293063062 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they refer to their "customers", which annoys me intensely.
< 1293063062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: British Telecom.
< 1293063068 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1293063070 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__, WAT
< 1293063071 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ARE A COUNCIL. NOT A BUSINESS.
< 1293063073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, customers of the government.
< 1293063080 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIVE WITH IT.
< 1293063085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it more like the government is *our* customer?
< 1293063088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of.
< 1293063096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, really, the government is our contractor.
< 1293063100 0 :infanticide!~infantici@c-98-192-175-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293063102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We just seem to forget that every now and then.
< 1293063104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infanticide: GAK!
< 1293063112 0 :infanticide!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1293063116 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more like "commercial metaphors can only lead to naïvety".
< 1293063139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: Sure.
< 1293063149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: But the government are definitely supposed to work for us. :p
< 1293063154 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, why athena?
< 1293063161 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean.... there is no excuse to use that
< 1293063171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because they invented it, and they have a LOT of machines with it.
< 1293063178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Hey, it runs gnome now. :p
< 1293063183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And is based on Ubuntu, now, I think)
< 1293063185 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"og:url - The canonical, permanent URL of the page representing the entity. When you use Open Graph tags, the Like button posts a link to the og:url instead of the URL in the Like button code."
< 1293063187 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF
< 1293063195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: What?
< 1293063202 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't sound the least bit abusable
< 1293063210 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://developers.facebook.com/docs/reference/plugins/like
< 1293063212 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, a second, isn't athena just a GUI toolkit?
< 1293063219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: what
< 1293063221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no
< 1293063228 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh
< 1293063237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Athena is just what some people call Xaw, because Project Athena at MIT (involving DEC and IBM) created it
< 1293063251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Athena created X11, Kerberos and Zephyr.
< 1293063267 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293063268 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah
< 1293063269 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1293063288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: tl;dr: if MIT wants to have a bunch of semi-thin clients, they buy a bunch of expensive workstations, put Unix on them, invent X11 and Kerberos, connect them to a server, and call them thin clients.
< 1293063293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Students would have access to (for the time) high performance graphical workstations, capable of 1 million instructions per second and having 1 megabyte of RAM and a 1 megapixel display." <-- THIN CLIENT
< 1293063303 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293063359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, if you need to do advanced computation then a lot of local resources might be good
< 1293063367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They're used to run Emacs :P
< 1293063389 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, see!
< 1293063396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha
< 1293063404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eight megabytes and constantly swapping, not one!
< 1293063409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay, so they've been upgraded since then)
< 1293063414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://blog.spang.cc/images/clean-athena.png Athena as of a few years ago.
< 1293063423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I understand it has been upgraded to be Ubuntu-based since then and probably the visuals too.
< 1293063426 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, when they started getting high-quality workstations was much more expensive than getting high-quality X terminals and UNIX systems.
< 1293063431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (That's GNOME 2.8. *In 2008.*)
< 1293063445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: X terminals didn't exist because X11 didn't exist.
< 1293063451 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: http://blog.spang.cc/images/clean-athena.png Athena as of a few years ago. <-- still decent
< 1293063455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: They bought high-end workstations: 1 MIPS, 1 MB RAM, 1 megapixel display.
< 1293063456 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to the original
< 1293063459 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ...
< 1293063460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 2.8!!!
< 1293063464 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Dear God.
< 1293063466 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what version is gnome now. 2.16?
< 1293063467 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The overkill.
< 1293063467 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot
< 1293063468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: They /invented X/ to run on these.
< 1293063470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 2.32.
< 1293063485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 2.8 came out in 2004.
< 1293063486 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Okay, Athena would have made sense if X terminals were easily available.
< 1293063491 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But holy God that's nuts.
< 1293063495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: *AWESOME
< 1293063496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not nuts!
< 1293063503 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, awesome for the students there
< 1293063506 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Okay, yes, I was actually looking for "crazy awesome".
< 1293063508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Anyway, they all have their own copy of GNOME I think.
< 1293063513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just /some/ apps are on a server.
< 1293063520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Emacs is, for instance.
< 1293063522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe.
< 1293063524 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, except those at the AI lab. They had lisp machines
< 1293063527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno about Firefox.
< 1293063537 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at some point at least)
< 1293063543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm pretty sure anyone could go down to the AI Lab :P
< 1293063545 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Lisp machines were falling out of vogue by the time Athena came into play.
< 1293063551 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah
< 1293063565 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though MIT almost certainly still had plenty at the AI lab.
< 1293063569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Athena started in 1983.
< 1293063573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So not "really".
< 1293063581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, it didn't take long for them to decline.
< 1293063597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Were they Symbolics, though? I doubt it.
< 1293063602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since Symbolics grew out of the AI Lab.
< 1293063620 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably the AI Lab-built machines.
< 1293063662 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293063710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It amazes me that X actually has support code for widget libraries.
< 1293063721 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293063728 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though it was last used over a decade ago.
< 1293063818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :widget libraries?
< 1293063822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably not gtk etc
< 1293063872 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xaw and Motif.
< 1293063888 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They called out to Xt.
< 1293063906 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293063910 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night →
< 1293063928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: People still use Xaw. And Motif.
< 1293063940 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If Vorpal moves left, will time move backwards back into day?
< 1293063951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEEP.
< 1293064086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I NEED LANGUAGE SUGGESTIONS
< 1293064168 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Falcon Factor Haskell C C++ Java Newspeak Smalltalk Ur Python BancSTAR Brainfuck
< 1293064174 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^in no particular order
< 1293064177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fail at interpreting my statement.
< 1293064259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What would JESUS put in a language???
< 1293064304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro:
< 1293064305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~$ clang -fblocks bar.c -o bar
< 1293064305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/cc-FT8NmW.o:(.rodata+0x20): undefined reference to `_NSConcreteGlobalBlock'
< 1293064307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: :(
< 1293064360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You never told me blocks don't work as regular function pointers :|
< 1293064370 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Jesus would put salvation into a language, and everyone else would turn it into C++.
< 1293064372 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, something that prevents debuggers and statements used in a debugging context from working properly. You need faith that the program will work properly.
< 1293064476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Clang doesn't yet provide an easy way to use blocks on platforms that don't have built-in operating system support (e.g., SnowLeopard)."
< 1293064480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Can I see your copying code?
< 1293064503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That line is bullshit.
< 1293064513 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://compiler-rt.llvm.org/ You just need that library installed.
< 1293064520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Right. Apparently it's not so mature though.
< 1293064527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They linked to that in the same comment.)
< 1293064573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But srsly, you can't use blocks as function pointers.
< 1293064575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. useless to me
< 1293064579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No?
< 1293064595 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/eFJC There's a self-contained example.
< 1293064613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq: But srsly, you can't use blocks as function pointers.
< 1293064614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this true?
< 1293064621 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Yeah, it is.
< 1293064646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://sprunge.us/eFJC There's a self-contained example.
< 1293064651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any way to avoid being explicit with the closure?
< 1293064658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's kind of a pain as a compiler-writer.
< 1293064658 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1293064685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the name of the compiler-rt lib?
< 1293064700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's librt but it's not that.
< 1293064831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Are you suuure I can't avoid explicit closing?
< 1293064859 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293064891 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you can avoid ever popping the function off the stack, you can use GCC's automatic closing.
< 1293064900 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293064916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hmm. Well, can I just list all the variables mentioned in the function body and that would be sufficient?
< 1293064932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also: How do you avoid invoking gcc's automatic closing in that code?
< 1293064937 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should C have a allocprintf command?
< 1293064952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: To do what?
< 1293064963 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What do *you* think?
< 1293064970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I have no idea.
< 1293064980 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I do not ever use any variable from the enclosing scope.
< 1293064987 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, how difficult would it be to port MegaZeux to Flash?
< 1293064992 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You cannot guess what I meant?
< 1293064994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Heh.
< 1293064996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No.
< 1293065009 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293065009 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: I don't know. But I suggest you don't port MegaZeux to Flash.
< 1293065036 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1293065037 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you compile C programs with SDL into Flash? If so, then it is easy. But I don't think you can do that.
< 1293065048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can compile C to Flash.
< 1293065052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A guy ported Doom to Flash that way.
< 1293065107 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Why do you want it in Flash anyways? It is much better native (it will both be faster and will not require a Flash player).
< 1293065134 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So more people will play MegaZeux games!
< 1293065171 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: MegaZeux will compile on most operating systems, including Nintendo DS.
< 1293065222 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's impossible to get lazy people to go through that effort to play what feels like a flash game
< 1293065224 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But if you can find a way to compile C programs with SDL into Flash, you can try compiling mzxrun only into Flash, although I still don't like it.)
< 1293065463 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Mainstream MegaZeux executables are available for most common operating systems. For my version, executable is available only on Windows to download, but it works on other operating systems too. If anyone wants to contribute executables of my MegaZeux in other operating system, I might post a link to those ones too.
< 1293065513 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What I meant by "allocprintf" is one that is like
< 1293065535 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sprintf" but it automatically allocates it too.
< 1293065563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: allocsprintf would be a better name. GLib has that, by the way.
< 1293065590 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't know that before.
< 1293065597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://library.gnome.org/devel/glib/stable/glib-String-Utility-Functions.html#g-strdup-printf
< 1293065638 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's for GNOME isn't it?
< 1293065664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No.
< 1293065669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: GLib is portable.
< 1293065685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: And works in programs with any type of interface; it does not depend on any interface library.
< 1293065699 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, either way, I am writing the program without such functions because it doesn't have it, I was just mentioning something that I might find useful. It is not absolutely necessary.
< 1293065751 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Glib just happens to be heavily used by Gnome; it's a fairly generic "throw everything in that should've been part of the C library" sort of thing, though.
< 1293065769 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it also has that revolting object system.
< 1293065832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but you don't have to link that in. :p
< 1293065905 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Have you played my MegaZeux game yet, though? (It is recommended you download my copy of both the world file and the MegaZeux program, but you don't have to (for Part I).)
< 1293065939 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what's horrible about it?
< 1293065956 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, besides trying to use it in its native language?
< 1293065971 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293065997 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I know is that when I need a object system in a C program, I will write one that is suited for that specific program that I am writing.
< 1293066024 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, that's because you're zzo38 >.>
< 1293066088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GLib is pretty awful in reality :P
< 1293066089 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293066107 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, to use from C, or even from a language like Vala/Genie?
< 1293066118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GLib is just awful full stop.
< 1293066123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it has some useful functions.
< 1293066168 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written more of TeXnicard already. Including pattern matching.
< 1293066228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: srsly though, I don't think Debian has a compiler-rt package.
< 1293066242 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What is a compiler-rt package?
< 1293066253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A thing for LLVM.
< 1293066338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1293066342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libblocksruntime-dev
< 1293066345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :split out by stupid debian
< 1293066364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Are you sure there's no way to cast a block to a function pointer?
< 1293066446 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a idea of esolang that nearly everything must be done by solving a halting problem. What is the minimum number of other things needed?
< 1293066617 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None that I know of.
< 1293066778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Bleh, I can't figure this out at all...
< 1293066922 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293066981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Why is parsing such a pain.
< 1293067021 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293067169 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293067339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293067443 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1293067462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Maybe I should just write the compiler in Haskell.
< 1293067482 0 :infanticide!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1293068047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT NESTED COMMENTS
< 1293068073 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293068105 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1293068163 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293068212 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-167-149.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293068842 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :109.8lbs
< 1293068855 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's considering I didn't eat much today
< 1293068861 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll be ok on Feb 10th
< 1293069091 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293069142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: HOW SHOULD I PARSE
< 1293069240 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293069602 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1293069634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ping
< 1293069862 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNIP
< 1293069918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: HOW DO I PARSE
< 1293069933 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using GNIP.
< 1293069977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ;_;
< 1293069981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Even Parsec is a bit of a bitch.
< 1293070199 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293070277 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293070346 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293070474 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1293070784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You should make a parser library.
< 1293071313 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293071471 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293071887 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: seen "Yacc is dead"?
< 1293071903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: yep. and every response to it. and the author's re-response.
< 1293071912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't really help my current situation :)
< 1293072129 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes back to debugging his language

< 1293072242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: what lang?
< 1293072296 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my lang. a pre-pre-pre-release version of what will eventually rule the earth
< 1293072308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: brief overview? and no, /my/ lang will rule the earth.
< 1293072364 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome's been acting up again lately
< 1293072375 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm almost tempted to switch back to Opera
< 1293072410 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it has message passing, and pattern matching, and multiple dispatch, and... the rest is part of the front-end I have to implement
< 1293072418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: strongly typed?
< 1293072429 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dynamically typed
< 1293072455 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293072456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: worthless
< 1293072462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: is it purely functional or impure?
< 1293072485 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the type system is part of the front-end
< 1293072490 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :purely functional
< 1293072501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: hmm. maybe not entirely worthless then
< 1293072514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: message passing/multiple dispatch have a lot of overlap -- why not just pick one?
< 1293072549 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has both; they're implemented in the same lines of code
< 1293072549 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293072559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: that's not a reason
< 1293072578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :careful, thought-out design taking into account what to exclude as well as what to include > "it didn't take many lines of code so I threw it in"
< 1293072579 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm... because I like power, and this is more powerful?
< 1293072595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far every time you've used the word power it's been to justify a bad idea ... but very well.
< 1293072629 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, it doesn't *really* have pattern-matching
< 1293072637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't even object to pattern matching
< 1293072685 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's why it doesn't have it. because it has no data structures.
< 1293072688 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it "more power" to drop the strong typing from Haskell? More power in that case -> suck
< 1293072710 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: it has no type system yet. OK?
< 1293072730 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, I was commenting on the idea of "power", not your language speciically
< 1293072730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: if it has no data structures, what do you send messages to?
< 1293072734 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically
< 1293072734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: how do you decide what dispatch to use?
< 1293072765 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: environments
< 1293072770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: go on.
< 1293072806 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an environment takes some code and evaluates it. I have an environment which can construct other environments
< 1293072869 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which dispatches to them
< 1293072870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still think that having both message passing /and/ multiple dispatch is a design flaw. or at least an indicator of badly-thought-out design.
< 1293072921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: wait, how do lambda expressions in C++0x compare, for compiling to?
< 1293073348 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to go watch a video on Ur
< 1293073353 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll warm up to it
< 1293073365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: You won't unless you have a decent grasp of dependent types.
< 1293073380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: In which a company announces that their BSD-licensed fork of the BSD-licensed LimeChat, which they do not name or link to in the press release, will be sold in the Mac App Store for $9. http://www.codeux.com/textual/future.php
< 1293073413 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18min
< 1293073419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: New item on my TODO list: Offer free builds, encourage people to link to it with "Textual" as the link text for googlebombing.
< 1293073419 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have that kind of time :(
< 1293073426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: No, you can spend it on IRC instead.
< 1293073430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you have 18min.
< 1293073452 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if I start thinking it's ok to watch lengthy videos when I should be working, I'm screwed
< 1293073499 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293073612 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293073879 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :wareya
< 1293074014 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.khanacademy.org/ good way to learn some more advanced math?
< 1293074128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um i don't really see anything there i would consider very advanced
< 1293074147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :khanacademy seems to be universally popular though.
< 1293074290 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEAR FLASH: FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU
< 1293074315 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes, when playing YouTube videos, the audio will keep going and the video will stop
< 1293074337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame Windows.
< 1293074411 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I see stuff about linear algebra
< 1293074427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: and?
< 1293074437 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's stuff I don't know
< 1293074444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't mean it's advanced stuff.
< 1293074579 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293074721 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293075176 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293075308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan
< 1293075315 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ho
< 1293075404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the ho what?
< 1293075415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Udage&diff=20547&oldid=20545 <-- i totally schooled that cpressey dude
< 1293075427 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ho de hi
< 1293075467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, and some classic Graue rage:
< 1293075469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[I reverted your purge of Talk:Udage because that isn't the way wikis work. You do not own that page, nor do you own the Udage article. Do not delete valid information from this site again. --Graue 19:16, 10 Oct 2005 (GMT)]]
< 1293075653 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, if I try to pretend PSOX never existed, and try to remove all traces of it ever existing, I'll be yelled at?
< 1293075693 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293075754 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293075770 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: sheesh, obviously you'll be yelled at regardless
< 1293075789 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_maybe_ a bit more in that case
< 1293075907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic thing to understand, Sgeo_, is that people like yelling at you
< 1293076181 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :precisely!
< 1293076203 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know you all secretly love me
< 1293076208 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: NOW DO YOUR HOMEWORK
< 1293076315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you should ban Sgeo_.
< 1293076329 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't help.
< 1293076365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also with my own procrastination that would be bad karma.
< 1293076491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, i just want you to ban him to make him go away
< 1293076688 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293076821 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293077761 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293077854 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293078006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computable_number#Formal_definition computable dedekind cuts -- awesome!
< 1293078169 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Last 30 days allocation lists for APNIC, 16x/14, 6x/13, 4x/12. That's about 11Mi addresses (plus then there are the <250k allocations...)
< 1293078219 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.com/Wishing-Well-Making-Your-Every/dp/078686561X . This book. This horrible, evil book
< 1293078306 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also intersting to look at raw allocation counts for 250k+ allocations: 5 for RIPE, 1 for ARIN, 1 for LACNIC, 2 for AfriNIC and 26(!) for APNIC.
< 1293078393 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runner-up in large allocations: RIPE with 5.25Mi. That's not even half of APNIC.
< 1293078582 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a kid, I had a bad reaction to the woowoo in that book
< 1293078618 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people find comfort in that sort of BS. I found abject fear that haunts me to this day
< 1293078756 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 forms of the final boss remaining.
< 1293078782 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Allocations this month: ARIN: 1 693 696. AfriNIC: 384 000. LACNIC: 1 095 936, RIPE: 3 953 920, APNIC: 12 063 232. Yes, APNIC allocated way more addresses than all the other RIRs COMBINED.
< 1293078813 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293078872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: You're fucking crazy.
< 1293078909 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the claims of that book have had such a profound negative influence on me
< 1293078935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Did I mention that you're fucking crazy?
< 1293078954 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, are you unaware of how easily kids can be affected by this sort of stuff?
< 1293078967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: No, no, I'm not quite sure you *understand*: you're fucking crazy.
< 1293079007 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293079043 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 forms remaining...
< 1293079051 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, YouTube it all
< 1293079075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Are you doing it with just the infinity-plus-one and mandatory bosses?
< 1293079077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If not: wtf i hate you
< 1293079136 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's different woowoo I believed as a kid, that wasn't so traumatic
< 1293079151 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm finishing my first playthrough dammit.
< 1293079158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ur lame
< 1293079162 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the final boss is still a pain with the infinity-plus-one.
< 1293079170 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did you just call Ur lame/
< 1293079173 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You see, it has 12 forms. You have to kill each one.
< 1293079176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: shut up
< 1293079207 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each one is a difficult boss in and of itself.
< 1293079259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: lawl
< 1293079285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except I one-shot each one.
< 1293079297 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need to have enough full-SP-heal items to get through.
< 1293079301 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I do.
< 1293079318 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find no fear in the idea of an afterlife, only comfort. In the idea of being able to control reality with your mind, I find the most horrible painful fear.
< 1293079327 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINISHED.
< 1293079504 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SATAN DEFEATS ALL
< 1293079546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Good ending.
< 1293079568 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, I used Satan to defeat the end of the world.
< 1293079572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: You can do that, it happens by sending a few signals down to effectors which effect changes in the world around them.
< 1293079602 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it would be better if it were an unwilling Anti-Christ
< 1293079639 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I could've used Odin instead; would that have made you feel better?
< 1293079677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No.
< 1293079684 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Messiah?
< 1293079685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Why aren't you in abject terror?
< 1293079688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: NO. SATAN
< 1293079696 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, then. Satan it was.
< 1293079704 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION rocks the devil horns

< 1293079714 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the only real way for my mind to affect reality is limited
< 1293079738 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My OCDish thoughts of people dying aren't going to kill them
< 1293079742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not very limited if you're an atom.
< 1293079745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what.
< 1293079749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the fuck has OCD got to do with that what
< 1293079773 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought OCD has to do with more severe unwanted thoughts than normal
< 1293079788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you have any idea what OCD is, shut up
< 1293079812 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm pretty sure there is a name for what I just described. I don't think I have it, but
< 1293079844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Um, thinking things you don't want to?
< 1293079848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a name for that: existing.
< 1293079857 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but more severely and painfully than normal
< 1293079859 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: OCD implies obsessive compulsions. And that it's a disorder.
< 1293079863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Umm... painfully?
< 1293079868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Just checking -- are we talking physical pain here
< 1293079911 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't know, ask the person I was talking to
< 1293079919 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRL
< 1293079935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: YOU JUST TALKED ABOUT "[THAT]LY" THOUGHTS, IF THEY DON'T EVEN CORRELATE WITH YOUR ONE-LINE DESCRIPTION THEN YOUR STATEMENT WAS BEYOND MEANINGLESS >_<
< 1293079953 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293080078 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you know what sort of thoughts I'm talking about, you said they were a part of existing
< 1293080095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's call it QRD. For the sake of argument.
< 1293080104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your thoughts did not involve the mentioned pain, how can you even say they are QRDly?
< 1293080136 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the other attribute of being unwanted is still there
< 1293080136 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293080470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: So let's say that a giraffe is an animal with spots and a long neck.
< 1293080482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Therefore jaguars are giraffey.
< 1293080506 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, maybe I shouldn't have said OCDish, or maybe my understanding is wrong
< 1293080509 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or inaccurate
< 1293080856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa myndzi is pronounced mind-zy
< 1293080859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think
< 1293080861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:19:02  ironic seeing as how i use a y in my nick for a long i sound
< 1293080871 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, in large allocations, APNIC allocated almost 3 times more allocations than rest of the world combined...
< 1293080895 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(last 30 days)
< 1293080898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1293080901 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "mind's eye" hth
< 1293080903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: so how long until the end now
< 1293080905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: WHOA
< 1293080907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: omg.
< 1293080909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wow.
< 1293080915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i thought it was just... "min-dzi"
< 1293080917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :min[imum] dzi
< 1293080923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like mindy but with more z
< 1293080924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa.
< 1293080926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have blown my mind
< 1293080927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how
< 1293080927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even
< 1293080928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1293080941 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IANA depletion in this or next month, APNIC depletion sometime in next year...
< 1293080946 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mind you i don't have real confirmation of this theory
< 1293080954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ;_;
< 1293080956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my lasdmklrt
< 1293081095 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293081155 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those who model RIR depletions are starting to have their doubts to their models...
< 1293081255 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, hm?
< 1293081255 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293081320 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to see example, look at the latest note to the IPv4 Address Report.
< 1293081427 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah: "[...]which, by the way, currently predicts that IANA will hand out its last IPv4 address blocks on 10 June 2011[...]". That was September this year. Now the prediction is February (and probably too optimistic)...
< 1293081499 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main problem with predicting exhaustions: Badly behaved distributions and changes to distribution parameters...
< 1293081542 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take door number e!
< 1293081546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still going!
< 1293081563 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's optional post-game content!
< 1293081728 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tr.froup.com/tr.pl?1671
< 1293081883 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The spread between highest and lowest daily allocation rates (for days with allocations) is more than factor of 1000.
< 1293082017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1293082154 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293082156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:31:46  I borrowed it without intent to return.
< 1293082157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:31:52  Phantom_Hoover, that's nasty
< 1293082161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293082231 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293082439 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293082678 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been an hour since I beat the final boss and I'm still playing the game.
< 1293082688 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not merely seeing cutscenes, oh no. Still playing.
< 1293082689 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God.
< 1293082778 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293082779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:33:49  actually damn, everything can be mass-nouned
< 1293082781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:33:59  "we don't have enough mousepad yet"
< 1293082784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293082799 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what elliot is doing

< 1293082821 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293082824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:59:39  C is an awesome language
< 1293082825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:01:03  it's like nuclear lego
< 1293082830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293082969 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going crazy. Got it.
< 1293083004 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION picks up a dropped t and stabs pikhq with it

< 1293083123 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was talking to elliot, not elliott, of course.
< 1293083167 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOO BAD YOU DIDN'T SAY THAT BEFORE I FATALLY STABBED YOU
< 1293083204 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaand the game is finally freaking over.
< 1293083401 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293083548 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293083727 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@75-174-222-45.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293083727 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293083821 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1293083924 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293084513 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293084649 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293085146 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1293085619 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293085692 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293086673 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293086934 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293087701 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293087874 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293088036 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293088233 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293088532 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Aug10
< 1293088603 0 :Aug10!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur
< 1293089014 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293089048 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293089127 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the esoteric programming channel!
< 1293089133 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: When the chips are down, well, the buffalo is empty
< 1293089315 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293089635 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: No brain, no headache.
< 1293090274 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293090494 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293091199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1293091200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293091446 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293091580 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293092314 0 :roper!~rodrigo@193.144.79.241 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293092375 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293092554 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293092761 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293093211 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293093724 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293093893 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293094184 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Lagerholm estimate jumed to "Today's IANA depletion date estimate: 2011-01-16".
< 1293094274 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What threw: It: 2Mi allocations to AU from APNIC.
< 1293094472 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.66 blocks in RIR pool...
< 1293094772 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293094894 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293094985 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293095125 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About 11M addresses left until APNIC gets another blocks, triggering X-day immediately.
< 1293095762 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1293095914 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293096192 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293096801 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, tell me when civilisation is about to ennd.
< 1293096803 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*end
< 1293096809 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to have popcorn handy.
< 1293096857 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, insufficient data to estimate that. :-/
< 1293097054 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293097176 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293097972 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293097974 0 :nefasto!~nefasto@ppp-66-182.98-62.inwind.it JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293098134 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293098140 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293098331 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293099133 0 :nefasto!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: http://irc2go.com/
< 1293099299 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293099426 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293100355 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293100522 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293101467 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293101621 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293102575 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293102783 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293103747 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293103984 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293104915 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293105024 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 20:59:39  C is an awesome language
< 1293105024 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 21:01:03  it's like nuclear lego
< 1293105024 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293105043 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only problem with that analogy is that C is way less modular
< 1293105081 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so, it is like lego, except when it comes to one of the key defining properties of lego)
< 1293105123 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey was on?
< 1293105158 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, at some point I presume
< 1293105320 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:24:08 --- join: zzo38 (~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com) joined #esoteric
< 1293105320 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:25:27  Welcome to the esoteric programming channel!
< 1293105352 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be baffled if anyone else did it, but zzo has desensitised me to his weirdness.
< 1293106073 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293106382 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, why is stunnel trying to create localhost-only AF_INET port and then trying to connect to it?
< 1293106607 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what is stunnel for now again?
< 1293106634 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similar to inetd, but listens for TLS connections instead of plaintext.
< 1293106660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293106669 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"trying" because it doesn't work and as result, stuff keeps failing...
< 1293106675 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, must be config issues
< 1293106677 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or bugs
< 1293106694 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think that exhausted all possibilities :P)
< 1293106921 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, has it worked before?
< 1293106961 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it has.
< 1293106985 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, so what did you change (if anything?)
< 1293107018 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Maybe it has always done that localhost connect thingy...
< 1293107036 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, well, presumably it hasn't always been failing
< 1293107084 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, is lo up when you get to userspace on linux?
< 1293107092 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does some early init script start lo
< 1293107162 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, /etc/rc.sysinit has /sbin/ifconfig lo 127.0.0.1 up
< 1293107184 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right after udev basically
< 1293107227 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, apparently strunnel is configured to use AF_INET instead of AF_UNIX for temporary internal sockets. Bleh.
< 1293107248 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, the whole "temporary internal sockets" thing sounds weird
< 1293107262 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, however, connecting over lo should work on every sane system
< 1293107290 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if someone has a crazy enough firewall that it doesn't work, then it is really their own issue
< 1293107387 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ unbound-control dump_cache | wc -l
< 1293107388 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :26297
< 1293107388 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1293107408 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for wc -c it is 1286918
< 1293107425 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recompiling strunnel with saner settings....
< 1293107449 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ unbound-control dump_cache | grep -E 'IN[ \t]*A' | wc -l
< 1293107449 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4702
< 1293107469 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1805 in AAAA
< 1293107470 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293107484 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so where is the  bulk
< 1293107500 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293107505 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN NS is 971, IN SOA is 1417
< 1293107531 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ unbound-control dump_cache | grep -E '^;' | wc -l
< 1293107531 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6728
< 1293107532 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1293107597 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that seems wrong above
< 1293107612 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite, the  \t didn't expand it seems
< 1293107691 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293107692 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unbound-control dump_cache | grep -Eo $'IN[ \t]*[^ \t]+' | awk '{print $2}' | sort -n | uniq -c | sort -n
< 1293107693 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293107707 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the parsing fails somewhat
< 1293107725 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah + there gives more reasonable results...
< 1293107753 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293107991 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah... stunnel segfaulted.
< 1293108032 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, why is it an issue that it uses AF_INET and lo?
< 1293108190 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unbound-control dump_cache | sed '/START_MSG_CACHE/q' | grep -Ev '^;' | grep IN | awk '{print $4}' | sort -n | uniq -c | sort -n
< 1293108191 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1293108203 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and NS dominates.
< 1293108205 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firewall rules.
< 1293108212 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, they restrict lo?
< 1293108218 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, if so they are utterly bonkers
< 1293108259 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, you should setup a data diode or whatever it is called on lo. Just firewall is too insecure!
< 1293108350 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stunnel crashes even if client doesn't try to send client certificate.
< 1293108489 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, but why are you firewalling lo to this insane degree?
< 1293108559 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's stunnel3 compat binary as well. Crashes just as good when connecting.
< 1293108583 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, yeah, but uh, why are you firewalling lo to this degree. That is the real wtf
< 1293108632 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293108810 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tried stunnel 3.26 too. Crashes on connect.
< 1293108820 0 :sftp_!~sftp@79.174.49.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293108842 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1293108861 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> Stunnel sucks...
< 1293108876 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, just fix the insane firewall rule
< 1293108891 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, really, what are the rules for lo?
< 1293108923 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same as global, plus few extra ports allowed.
< 1293108934 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, why are you surprised stuff breaks then
< 1293108968 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I expect software to use AF_UNIX for local stuff internally, not AF_INET to loopback.
< 1293108978 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, the usual way is to check for invalid state (and on ipv6 for rt type 0), then the rule after that/those is generally "if loopback, allow"
< 1293108990 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, you expect too much
< 1293109009 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, besides, what does it add to security? I doubt anything.
< 1293109021 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows-portable software will likely not use AF_UNIX for anything.
< 1293109028 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that too
< 1293109046 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually have built version of stunnel that uses AF_UNIX as it should. Except that that crashes if client tries to connect...
< 1293109056 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, probably because few people use it
< 1293109090 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, also, shouldn't you use something like selinux or similar to limit what unix sockets each program can use
< 1293109094 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293109098 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It crashes inside SSL client certificate routines, which AFAIK come before it tries to use internal sockets...
< 1293109098 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hi
< 1293109105 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g'day
< 1293109106 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, hm.
< 1293109120 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, I suggest you go back to the previous working setup and try again
< 1293109144 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn rsi acting up again :(
< 1293109151 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, rsi?
< 1293109173 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, (as in, which meaning of rsi)
< 1293109185 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one which it's painful to type out
< 1293109191 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ducks

< 1293109218 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah that would be "Register Storage Immediate"
< 1293109218 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION then whimpers

< 1293109227 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It crashes instantly after receiving the client certificate...
< 1293109238 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, even on the previous working setup?
< 1293109241 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats Vorpal -----###

< 1293109254 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, use speech to text or something
< 1293109260 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it would be a good laugh
< 1293109288 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this laptop doesn't actually have a microphone.  also i hate unnecessary sounds.
< 1293109387 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, 3.26 works (including invoking the program) if I don't send a client ceritificate. 4.34 crashes even if I don't send it.
< 1293109408 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, is this with or without insane firewall setup?
< 1293109423 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, for purposes of debugging you should test if it affects anything
< 1293109432 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl
< 1293109691 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no external mic?
< 1293109790 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1293109792 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, also, I never imagined you as one using a laptop.
< 1293109802 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I mean, a vt100 sounds more your style
< 1293109808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1293109808 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe a workstation
< 1293109819 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would work too
< 1293109826 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, when i was at the university...
< 1293109841 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yeah, but laptop just doesn't suite you!
< 1293109853 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, at least use a desktop
< 1293109861 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even I use a desktop at home
< 1293109978 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, besides laptops are not comfortable for long time use (say, more than a 4-5 hours / day)
< 1293109990 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say.  *ouch*
< 1293110033 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, the touchpad is useless. And the trackpoint finger gets sore after a few hours
< 1293110054 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mouse ends up at wrong height often.
< 1293110064 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't mind the touchpad, there is no trackpoint
< 1293110064 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course the monitor is in the wrong place
< 1293110126 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and the travel distance on laptops sucks
< 1293110205 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, at least I hope it has full sized keys
< 1293110205 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't actually bring it anywhere anyhow
< 1293110214 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1293110248 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, anyway, they are inferior to a proper mechanical keyboard
< 1293110298 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, found out why stunnel crashes: OpenSSL library/header mismatch.
< 1293110329 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it works even with client certs...
< 1293110517 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293110521 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293111408 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293111589 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that site to find shortest path on wikipedia?
< 1293111596 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :between two articles
< 1293111631 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor had a game based on it
< 1293111641 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I remember some automated tool for it
< 1293111646 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293111653 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are several.
< 1293111673 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, right, happen to know where to find one?
< 1293111675 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick googling found me http://thewikigame.com/ but not the one that had the psychedelic color-flashery and link-dropping feature.
< 1293111695 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the one I remember was just a pain white page
< 1293111697 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That one has a few game modes though.)
< 1293111698 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, like, no css
< 1293111720 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and I don't want it as a game, I want it as a tool that tells me the shortest path.
< 1293111729 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that.
< 1293111749 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes, I googled but can't find it
< 1293111758 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.netsoc.tcd.ie/~mu/wiki/ ?
< 1293111762 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's linked from Wikipedia.)
< 1293111765 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1293111790 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm, I guess that works. Not the one I thought of. But any tool that does the job is okay
< 1293111800 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit dated (March 2008) now.
< 1293111806 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293111809 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293111917 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1293111917 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also http://www.xltd.com/WikiMindMap/WikiPath.htm but that's not one I remember having seen before. That one doesn't say which day's dump they're using.
< 1293111962 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it could be http://www.netsoc.tcd.ie/~mu/wiki/ if they redesigned that page. The result page looks similar to what I remember
< 1293111981 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they could've just prettified it up a bit.
< 1293112076 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyone know what the longest path is (excluding those of infinite length due to lack of any links between)
< 1293112150 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Several people were asking about what's known as the "diameter" of Wikipedia, that is, the distance between the two articles furthest apart (the longest shortest path if that makes any sense to you). This was in fact the original goal of the project but it turned out not to be very interesting. Wikipedia has giant "tails", almost linear linked lists of articles that stretch out for 70 links."
< 1293112156 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's on that six-degrees page.
< 1293112166 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293112180 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Even when I special-cased out that string of 70 boring articles, a new one appeared (I think it was linked pages about administrations of Myanmar or something)."
< 1293112185 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello.
< 1293112189 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh
< 1293112190 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, hi
< 1293112204 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the center of wikipedia (in March 2008) was "2007".
< 1293112269 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't they change policy to include less year links in articles?
< 1293112286 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i saw some being edited away at one time
< 1293112385 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't recall if it was before or after 2008 though
< 1293112401 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm, I wonder if wikipedia has an Eulerian path...
< 1293112407 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not
< 1293112420 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1293112462 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a Hamiltonian path would be interesting as well
< 1293112492 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are pages with no incoming links and multiple outgoing links (like some disambig pages), so no.
< 1293112500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both of those only need three articles with either no paths out or no ... right
< 1293112542 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about the set of all pages that can be reached from the centre.
< 1293112555 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, dead ends I guess
< 1293112556 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293112566 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need paths both ways
< 1293112570 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yeah
< 1293112575 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; I don't know about the strongly-connected component, though.
< 1293112587 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, we need to carefully tweak the pages so that such a graph is possible
< 1293112596 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even then it can easily fail i think
< 1293112603 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, probably.
< 1293112607 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293112610 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A directed graph is Eulerian if it is strongly connected and every vertex has equal in degree and out degree."
< 1293112618 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like it's unlikely to hold.
< 1293112624 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for eulerian path you cannot have too many with an odd number of in/out neighbors
< 1293112643 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so Hamiltonian path might be more feasible
< 1293112646 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait _directed_ too
< 1293112659 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the links are quite naturally directed.
< 1293112716 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293112838 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293113134 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181130160.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293113198 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, ??? at your server
< 1293113205 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, I got in, but wtf
< 1293113241 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, I'm waiting for the real world to be back before I try again
< 1293113252 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, you have some completely weird place there now
< 1293113271 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, screenshot?
< 1293113298 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, try yourself. There were a number of monster spawner cages embedded in the ground near spawn. And it wasn't the usual world.
< 1293113316 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and empty inventory
< 1293113321 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it was also beta 1.1_02 and no hMod.
< 1293113325 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I assume it's for testing.
< 1293113328 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293113341 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not much point in playing on it
< 1293114333 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I get Debian to let me install Sid packages if necessary, but use the Squeeze packages by default?
< 1293114470 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add both to sources.list, then write an APT preferences file to prefer squeeze, but include sid with a lower priority.
< 1293114475 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cf. http://jaqque.sbih.org/kplug/apt-pinning.html
< 1293114648 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not working!
< 1293114675 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it has worked for me for a mixed-distribution Debian. How is it not working?
< 1293114706 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt-get upgrade still lists insanely huge numbers of packages to upgrade!
< 1293114735 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, http://wiki.debian.org/AptPreferences is the official version of above.
< 1293114823 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about "apt-get --dry-run -t testing upgrade", does that want to upgrade the world too?
< 1293114886 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be no different than using the preferences-file driven pinning, though.
< 1293114922 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, assuming I can s/testing/squeeze/, since that's what's on all of my apt lines.
< 1293114945 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you could try both. I think they should be usable interchangeably there.
< 1293115004 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, OK, got it working.
< 1293115329 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293115433 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's eliottt!
< 1293115467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1293115511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:59:04  damn rsi acting up again :(
< 1293115513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not carpal tunnel?
< 1293115550 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know precisely
< 1293115556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:12:58  oerjan, besides laptops are not comfortable for long time use (say, more than a 4-5 hours / day)
< 1293115564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i've been using this laptop exclusively for many months now
< 1293115601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i hope you enjoyed vorpal criticising every aspect of your computer, i bet you're going to replace it now
< 1293115607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with all that new knowledge
< 1293115629 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very nice sarcasm
< 1293115645 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, quick, give me a Debian mirror adress!
< 1293115648 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*address
< 1293115656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: se.mirrors.kernel.org
< 1293115658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1293115675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no
< 1293115687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:46:02  fizzie, it could be http://www.netsoc.tcd.ie/~mu/wiki/ if they redesigned that page. The result page looks similar to what I remember
< 1293115688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1293115693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mirrors.se.kernel.org/debian/
< 1293115693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: ^
< 1293115696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1293115752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:06:38  ineiros, ??? at your server
< 1293115752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:06:45  ineiros, I got in, but wtf
< 1293115752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:07:21  ineiros, I'm waiting for the real world to be back before I try again
< 1293115752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:07:32  ineiros, you have some completely weird place there now
< 1293115752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:07:51  Vorpal, screenshot?
< 1293115753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:08:18  fizzie, try yourself. There were a number of monster spawner cages embedded in the ground near spawn. And it wasn't the usual world.
< 1293115757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone got a screeny
< 1293115768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:25:33  How do I get Debian to let me install Sid packages if necessary, but use the Squeeze packages by default?
< 1293115771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: YOU NEVER, EVER DO THAT.
< 1293115774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: DO. NOT. DO. THAT.
< 1293115783 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1293115804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Rephrase. Do not do that unless you /really, really know what you're doing/. *REALLY.*
< 1293115872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Just manually dpkg -i the few packages from sid you really want.
< 1293115891 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293115999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:08:18  fizzie, try yourself. There were a number of monster spawner cages embedded in the ground near spawn. And it wasn't the usual world.
< 1293116006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you didn't destroy them, did you?
< 1293116108 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why do you ask
< 1293116148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In case you did. You said "were".
< 1293116151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Past tense.
< 1293116160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Is there a way to get into that blocked-off tunnel near spawn? :p
< 1293116182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god monsters are on
< 1293116256 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See those craters?
< 1293116261 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me and a couple of creepers.
< 1293116320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm scared
< 1293116440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Killed a fucking zombie with my bare fucking hands, chickened out, disconnected.
< 1293116522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zombie chickens
< 1293116533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: A creeper and a skeleton are currently molesting me from the game over screen.
< 1293116539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, now a zombie too.
< 1293116558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: So I should have rounded up a few enemies if anyone else wants to go on :P
< 1293116561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Did I mention I ran into the creeper to avoid the horrible fate of zombies?
< 1293116591 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: holidays
< 1293116592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitches can't climb up trees
< 1293116688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mob spawners just spawn pigs :(
< 1293116691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Got any explanation for this? :P
< 1293116709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: right clicking while holding a feather on dirt or sth ->
< 1293116710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:04:27 [INFO] Connecting to a322.org:25566...
< 1293116712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm,
< 1293116714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:04:23 [DIED] protocol.c: 359: Unknown packet id: 0xee (dir 2)
< 1293116737 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably desynced due to .
< 1293116755 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still can't quite "get over" not adding a length field in the "protocol".
< 1293116774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So has anyone actually done anything other than build a blocked-off tunnel at spawn? :p
< 1293116790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Holding down right click w/ feather -> pretty reliable crash if you walk
< 1293116861 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-13-169.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293116865 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take a look at home, hopefully. Though there's a movie-watching thing, so I might not have time.
< 1293116883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So is the server staying like this? :p
< 1293116901 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know; I haven't heard anything from ineiros except the "hello" on-channel.
< 1293116948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Let's just say yes, 'cuz this is pretty awesome.
< 1293116957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can COLOMIJIGGER
< 1293116960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MIZE
< 1293116977 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dir 2 is PACKET_TO_SERVER, though, so it got desynk'd in the client-to-server stream, which is nice, because that one tends to be less complicated and easier to anamalyze.
< 1293116989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1293117053 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Packet ID 0x05 at least seems to have been completely repurposed, so I'll have to update for that.
< 1293117076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iron at (17,-153) for whenever I'm not shitfaced.
< 1293117080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shtifaced scared that is.
< 1293117087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My terminology does not have to sense-make to be use-make.
< 1293117176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What @ (45,-242).
< 1293117227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THINGS THAT DO NOT WORK: Jumping off a cliff to get down
< 1293117244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> //coords
< 1293117245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:13:29 [CHAT] //coords: x=41, z=31, y=63
< 1293117245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> //coords
< 1293117245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:13:30 [CHAT] //coords: x=41, z=31, y=63
< 1293117251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: There's a blank line after the chat prompt.
< 1293117254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Printing bug?
< 1293117258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait.
< 1293117262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:08:40 [INFO] Starting up...
< 1293117262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:10:36 [CHAT] //coords: x=17, z=-153, y=65
< 1293117262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:12:21 [CHAT] //coords: x=45, z=-242, y=85
< 1293117266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blank line before that last one too.
< 1293117621 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello.
< 1293117680 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The placed spawners apparently only spawn pigs. I would like to have the capability to edit them, though. But hey, free bacon.
< 1293117740 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought to have something else there for a few days until the hMod is stable again.
< 1293117789 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, if someone wants to have maps at some point, you should point me to a system that can handle the current mess.
< 1293117922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: You use cartomograph, right?
< 1293117927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: plz keep it like this, it's awesome.
< 1293117932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As in this map.)
< 1293118162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:28:41 [DIED] protocol.c: 359: Unknown packet id: 0x19 (dir 2)
< 1293118164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after building cloth
< 1293118251 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, pymap.
< 1293118265 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: Why didn't you just patch the region?
< 1293118358 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Setting the extents manually caused an exception elsewhere in the code. Didn't have motivation to look further into the code.
< 1293118398 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, wasn't it pynemap instead of pymap?
< 1293118421 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, my bad.
< 1293118454 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't tried the others; Cartographer 5's Linux port didn't have extents-setting features.
< 1293118472 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone has done a google-maps driven map already, though, http://www.triangularpixels.com/Junk/TectonicusTest/map.html
< 1293118563 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Programs_and_Editors#Mappers says of one that it's the "The fastest mapper available; capable of processing very large maps. Supports multiple modes including cave maps and resource highlighting." but it seems to be Windows-only, according to them little icons.
< 1293118777 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still want to do that google maps / openlayers -based web-tile-mapper at some point, though I'd prefer if it had quasi-real-time player markers and such from a server plugin too.
< 1293119170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The Google Maps ones take up many-the-gigs of storage space, I gather.
< 1293119215 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They could have a limited-size cache and on-the-fly generation.
< 1293119279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That'll not slow the server down at all, nope.
< 1293119281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p
< 1293119325 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it could be done on some other box with the world rsync'd every now and then. Not sure how easy it is to add real-life geodata on top of gmaps. (Or openlayers.)
< 1293119329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Minecraft is about to go up in price, so today is your last chance to buy it for €10. Obviously I recommend it. When it officially reaches beta today, the main niggles with the mutliplayer will be gone and the price will be €15." -- yes, those niggles like not being able to duplicate shit :)
< 1293119376 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293119417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I stock up on wood. I stock up on stone. I stock up on metal. I even take some sand. Then I fret that the sand and wood is taking too much potential ham-space, and ditch it. Then I stock up on water. Then I wonder if I should go looking for more diamond to make armour with. Then I wonder if my beacon is tall enough. Then I wonder if I have enough pickaxes.
< 1293119418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I stop being such a dithering prick and set light to the portal."
< 1293119439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I’m almost ready. The only thing wrong with this scene is that it doesn’t feel very dramatic. I’m going to *hell*, there should be some spectacle here.
< 1293119439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I turn around and look at the closest tree for a while, then set fire to it. It starts a forest fire that rages across the hill behind me, enclosing the portal between a crescent of fire and the water of the bay."
< 1293119445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, too, solve all problems with forest fires.
< 1293119531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is when I discover the rock beneath me is not in fact rock, but a sea of screaming faces that stick to my feet in such a way that I can barely move. Shit like this is going in my TripAdvisor review, Nether. Two stars MAX."
< 1293119579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I bolt back down as the fireball hits above. OK, I saw it. It’s about three blocks this way, then five that way, then a couple up and whunk! I’ve struck obsidian. Congratulations, Tom, you’ve discovered the thing you just came out of."
< 1293120655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: [[The Settlers 7: Paths to a Kingdom
< 1293120655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Super horrible DRM problems aside, this is a fresh air of old school game design, almost feeling board-game like at times. 4/5]]
< 1293120665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Notch -- he hates stupid horrible DRM problems.
< 1293120672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, say, depending on a single server to play the game.
< 1293120676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*game in multiplayer.
< 1293120685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And bundling forced updates with the validation.
< 1293120978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
< 1293120978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too little, too late. Sonic in an undead zombie by now. 2/5]]
< 1293120986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coming soon to Minecraft -- zombies that aren't undead.
< 1293121156 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1293121271 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-240.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293121436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: FWIW, there are supposedly-stable pre-compiled builds of the beta-updated development hMod.
< 1293121480 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Someone has done a google-maps driven map already, though, http://www.triangularpixels.com/Junk/TectonicusTest/map.html <-- I seen at least two different programs that does it
< 1293121527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I've.
< 1293121545 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, when will the server go back to normal btw?
< 1293121554 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would guess when hmod is updated
< 1293121563 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right?
< 1293121851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or never.
< 1293121861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The maps would be cleaner. :p
< 1293121868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm even getting used to dying! A LOT!
< 1293122095 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Based on the hmod github commit-log, it's still seeing quite a lot of development, so I'd personally still wait a while. (Though of course for bleeding-edge testing...)
< 1293122118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Isn't that the motto of the League of Notch Apologists? "YOU'RE the testers!"
< 1293122323 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is only because haven't built anything really complicated. Sure the stairs were massive, but they didn't actually take that long. Something like fizzie's house and bunker is a lot more work
< 1293122346 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah, we should go back to the proper map when we have a working hmod
< 1293122370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You could just say "MY HOUSE!! MY BEAUTIFUL BEAUTIFUL FORTRESS!!" and be done with it rather than coming up with complicated excuses.
< 1293122387 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That /is/ what he said.
< 1293122394 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, quite
< 1293122493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, no, he said "You wouldn't know! You're not like fizzie!"
< 1293122494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compare:
< 1293122497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, that is only because haven't built anything really complicated. Sure the stairs were massive, but they didn't actually take that long. Something like fizzie's house and bunker is a lot more work
< 1293122498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : so yeah, we should go back to the proper map when we have a working hmod
< 1293122498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs.
< 1293122505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't want that, I'd lose my house.
< 1293122541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES! k3 is still available!
< 1293122692 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in other words, you got annoyed because I didn't fit your baseless image of me as someone who constantly whines when I tried to discuss in a civil manner and with proper justification for the statement.
< 1293122707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh snap, time for some quality Vorpal indignation.
< 1293122726 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually I'm amused.
< 1293122907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone want K3?
< 1293123357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/k$ chmod +x lin/k
< 1293123357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/k$ lin/k
< 1293123357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K 3.2 2005-06-25 Copyright (C) 1993-2004 Kx Systems
< 1293123357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIN32 2CPU 3805MB dinky.local 0 EVAL
< 1293123357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  2+2
< 1293123357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4
< 1293123359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^
< 1293123900 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, k3?
< 1293123958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K, the language, version 3.
< 1293123980 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, open source?
< 1293123991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what K is ...
< 1293124003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no. in fact i just found the interp against after olegfink linked me to nsl.com's copy
< 1293124006 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't remember the details no
< 1293124018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like J but different.
< 1293124021 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293124555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads the manual

< 1293124585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"K-Lite is a time-limited, reduced version of K which enables interested develop-
< 1293124585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ers to learn the language and develop small applications. K-Lite consists of the K
< 1293124585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :language and interpreter, GUI software, and ASCII file read/write capability. It
< 1293124585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does not include connections, file mapping, interprocess communications or
< 1293124585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :runtime capabilities." <-- hmm, this copy doesn't seem to be time limited
< 1293124590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*time-limited
< 1293124659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the manual is old
< 1293124663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for K-Lite 2.0
< 1293124665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas this is real K 3.2
< 1293124720 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: No route to host
< 1293124899 0 :jix!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293124930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm no it is the EVALuation version I think since it says EVAL
< 1293125018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For example, Logical Or is denoted by | and Logical And is denoted by & in both K and C."
< 1293125020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er. Not quite.
< 1293126140 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT QUITE
< 1293126165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knot quilt.
< 1293126596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293126734 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293127023 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1293127024 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1293127050 0 :jix!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293127171 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION now wonders how quickly it can take to go from 0 to the first boss in here.

< 1293127184 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on, absurdity.
< 1293127193 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And poor grammar.
< 1293127418 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of a few minutes?
< 1293127472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat
< 1293127483 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just guessing.
< 1293127519 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, bit more than that.
< 1293127572 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First hour or so skipped though.
< 1293127604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: are you doing the infinity-plus-one-all-that's-necessary run?
< 1293127607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so: <3
< 1293127609 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1293127614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: videoing it? :P
< 1293127621 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not atm.
< 1293127676 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION saveth not!

< 1293127837 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, which game?
< 1293127840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Persona 3.
< 1293127858 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293127905 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speedrunning is easy with most of the game being optional.
< 1293127915 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1293127945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is this going to give you a terrible ending? :P
< 1293127950 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :text adventure speed run. How would you measure it?
< 1293127958 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in number of commands?
< 1293127965 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not necessarily.
< 1293127973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, that's how it's done.
< 1293127977 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah
< 1293127981 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But the good ending would be PAINFUL.
< 1293127988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Take a look at this: http://www.the-spoiler.com/ADVENTURE/Infocom/trinity.1.html
< 1293128010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including comments.
< 1293128036 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There's a 260 floor dungeon. It is only mandatory at the very end of the good ending.
< 1293128102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Can you one-shot it? :P
< 1293128117 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can one-shot everything!
< 1293128132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Can you do the bad ending, then go back and do the good ending?
< 1293128147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so: do that, just so you can say you did the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM REQUIRED TO COMPLETE IT the first time.
< 1293128149 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can load from a savepoint, yes.
< 1293128164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Save right before the bad/good diverge point :P
< 1293128181 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a few minutes from there to the bad ending.
< 1293128195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh?
< 1293128232 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You choose whether to accept that the world will end or try to fight Death.
< 1293128240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl
< 1293128910 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293128920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi j=
< 1293128923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*j-invariant
< 1293128935 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey
< 1293128942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of coq
< 1293128943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computable_number#Formal_definition
< 1293128949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defining computable reals by computable dedekind cuts
< 1293128953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so cool
< 1293129024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok so that has very little to do with coq but still)
< 1293129086 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's so simple, I had always thought dedekind cuts would be really complicated to do
< 1293129242 0 :roper!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Abandonando
< 1293129309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I wonder what pi looks like
< 1293129332 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, seems it takes 45 minutes to get through the intro stuff.
< 1293129363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Not going to play on the HARDCORE SERVER?
< 1293129370 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And suddenly... SATAN!
< 1293129441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: still, it seems simpler than the complicated usual approximation-function definition
< 1293129447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: and also the continued fraction definition
< 1293129496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm spending the night in a pitch black 1x1x2 hole with things making noises right next to me.
< 1293129744 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: There's a 260 floor dungeon. It is only mandatory at the very end of the good ending. <-- large floors?
< 1293129756 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-38-203.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293129800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: hmm i should implement computable dedekind cuts
< 1293129804 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's pitch-black hole, mobs can spawn in it.
< 1293129813 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how you do arithmetic with them
< 1293129815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: As I said, it's 1x1. So they'd have to spawn... on me.
< 1293129821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: me neither ...
< 1293129834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Technically, they have .3 m above my head to cram into.
< 1293129857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaand the server went down.
< 1293129863 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm.  Perhaps you and them are both really narrow, or something.  I don't know if they can spawn there or not.
< 1293129879 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, if they are large, is it randomly generated or something (or at least generated + hand edited, actually making that many floors, if large, by hand sounds painful)
< 1293129952 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, I would probably get some enjoyment out of a game that is just a randomly-generated world that you can explore.
< 1293129959 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do nothing else.  Just explore.
< 1293130302 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, local game: larger overhang than mt hoover. Also it turns 90 degrees halfway out. And there is no scenery cut off to explain it (that game is all post-halloween)
< 1293130324 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It is mostly randomly-generated.
< 1293130347 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm okay
< 1293130357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And changes each time you go to a floor.
< 1293130359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I guess it isn't very story-heavy then?
< 1293130361 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ha
< 1293130382 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's very story-heavy. The design of the single dungeon is just irrelevant to the story.
< 1293130402 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wow there are 2 more overhangs like it visible from under the middle one
< 1293130416 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And aside from the very end of the good ending, it's entirely optional.
< 1293130418 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and a rather large floating island
< 1293130424 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION takes screenshots

< 1293130440 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, is there just /one/ good ending?
< 1293130465 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also I didn't mean if the game was story-heavy. I meant if the gameplay in that dungeon was
< 1293130473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This house should do me for the night.
< 1293130479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although a creeper will fuck it up.
< 1293130482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit, I only have three hearts.
< 1293130488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you get health back again? It isn't coming back naturaly.
< 1293130509 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eat.
< 1293130592 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do any of you play minecraft on ubuntu?
< 1293130610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I have no food.
< 1293130613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I play it on Debian
< 1293130615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so close enough
< 1293130616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1293130620 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wondering if you have to do any fixes to make it work?
< 1293130626 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't work when I tried it
< 1293130629 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So you won't get health back.
< 1293130652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: how do i get food again :D
< 1293130654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: well you need the sun jvm
< 1293130656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sun-java6-*
< 1293130661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, that fixes it for some people
< 1293130665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: what problems did you have?
< 1293130679 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Mushrooms, fish, pigs, apples
< 1293130688 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you get apples?
< 1293130694 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't remember.
< 1293130699 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, some mushrooms will hurt you, if I remember correctly.
< 1293130714 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I play on Ubuntu with the default openjdk, and it works just fine for me, but indeed for many it doesn't seem to.
< 1293130716 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ah.
< 1293130734 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the graphics rendenring was completely wrong, but maybe I should try again with the upgrade
< 1293130802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suspicious lack of noises tonight.
< 1293130807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Gonna play on the survival server?
< 1293130817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's all ~hardcore~ now although it is night time so you may want to wait some minutes.
< 1293130818 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not for a while.
< 1293130837 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Fun fact: you only get the infinity-plus-one sword after the first boss.
< 1293130839 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, an exposed dungeon up in the very tip of the overhang!!
< 1293130848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Said boss is entirely beatable without leveling.
< 1293130853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sounds ... silly.
< 1293130889 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's essentially scripted up until then.
< 1293130923 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There's precisely two endings.
< 1293130944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: how do you do "apply recordConstructor." in Coq without it complaining about not being able to find a value for a variable?
< 1293130947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want it to become the new goal
< 1293130952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno if you know
< 1293131005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, a zombie swimming, how cute.
< 1293131008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a creeper.
< 1293131014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what? It's LIGHT now, why are you appaering now.
< 1293131029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha burn
< 1293131165 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: eapply
< 1293131190 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~~~~~
< 1293131264 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1293131337 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: any ideas about this proof
< 1293131343 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/n4gcr.png
< 1293131367 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have mn = id, nm = id, etc.. and I want to show that Ff = m Gf v
< 1293131555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That lasted long.
< 1293131563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: no idea :/
< 1293131567 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I foolishly tried out mcmap.
< 1293131579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: eapply has me trying to prove things on ?7
< 1293131584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than getting me to specify ?7 first
< 1293131588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is there a tactic for that too?
< 1293131592 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah if that happens you are in trouble
< 1293131596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: can you please bring bacon? :{
< 1293131612 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say you have category with identity compose and some axioms..
< 1293131613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: hmm there's a command to declare a subgoal with a specified type right?
< 1293131638 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then a good way is instead of  eapply Build_Category.  you can do  apply (Build_Category  ). tehn you get goals left over for all the axioms
< 1293131648 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how I get around the ? stuff
< 1293131653 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange stuff; mcmap goes into a 100% CPU utilization loop.
< 1293131661 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it can be difficult to write the definitions in situ
< 1293131667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you sure do listen to my pleas :P
< 1293131676 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have any bacon to bring.
< 1293131685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there's a mob spawner at spawn.
< 1293131687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes lots of pigs
< 1293131693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :punch => food
< 1293131708 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, as soon as I get mcmap to actually let me in.
< 1293131717 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'mk stating to think that teh theorem isn't true
< 1293131723 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need more assumptions
< 1293131854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fff now I need to refer to Z's ^
< 1293131855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's Q's
< 1293131860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i've forgotten how to override scope
< 1293131894 0 :Wamanuz4!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293132134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh god spider noises
< 1293132195 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293132241 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I haven't had those in single player, but I have had strange noises
< 1293132341 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://coq.pastebin.com/v1Lb81As
< 1293132376 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the proofs are kind of a mess, and it's been hard work - but I got equality of functors defined
< 1293132389 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293132472 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (if there is a neater way to define functor equality, I'll take it!)
< 1293132585 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need natural transforms next
< 1293132628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Lagg.
< 1293132638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i don't know of one, way further than i've got
< 1293132647 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lagg indeed.
< 1293132660 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I threw out three bacon, I don't know if they disapparated somewhere. Hope not.
< 1293132679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: They were in my inventory when I spawned falling into nothingness.
< 1293132685 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay.
< 1293132701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You can stay at my house, FWIW. If you're staying on that is.
< 1293132701 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to start actually playing there, though, I just wanted to check if mcmap worked.
< 1293132715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: See how boring you are?!
< 1293132719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOERING
< 1293133069 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: want to do natural transforms for me? LOL this is making me exausted
< 1293133095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: er let me think of an excuse :D
< 1293133102 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its' probably going to be another 300 lines
< 1293133122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: and they said Coq couldn't get any more academic!
< 1293133127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you showed them!
< 1293133162 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really do want to define limits via cones though
< 1293133183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1293133228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p^3 <= (3*(q^3)))).
< 1293133228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr
< 1293133233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you do that if p's ^ is in Z_scope
< 1293133236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but q's ^ is in positive_scope?
< 1293133259 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something liek (q^3)%Z_scope
< 1293133291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah
< 1293133300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: well no q is positive_scop
< 1293133300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e
< 1293133301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah
< 1293133464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant:           (
< 1293133464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :            ((p^3)%Z) <=
< 1293133464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :            (Z_of_nat (nat_of_P (3*(q^3))%positive))
< 1293133464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :          )%Z)).
< 1293133466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will never work :D
< 1293133531 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293133549 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just type the full names lol
< 1293133558 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-37.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293133792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun H : Q =>
< 1293133792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let p := Qnum H in
< 1293133792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let q := Qden H in
< 1293133792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zle_bool (p ^ 3) (let q' := Z_of_nat (nat_of_P q) in 3 * q' ^ 3)
< 1293133794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks tactics
< 1293133879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the tactic that proves True again :D
< 1293133933 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tauto
< 1293134022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ============================
< 1293134022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   forall r s : Q,
< 1293134023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   Is_true
< 1293134023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :     (let p := Qnum r in
< 1293134023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      let q := Qden r in
< 1293134023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      Zle_bool (p ^ 3) (let q' := Z_of_nat (nat_of_P q) in 3 * q' ^ 3)) /\
< 1293134026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   ~
< 1293134027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   Is_true
< 1293134029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :     (let p := Qnum s in
< 1293134031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      let q := Qden s in
< 1293134033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      Zle_bool (p ^ 3) (let q' := Z_of_nat (nat_of_P q) in 3 * q' ^ 3)) ->
< 1293134035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   r < s
< 1293134037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well this looks fun.
< 1293134100 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's Is_true?
< 1293134104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: from Bool
< 1293134108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just if x then True else False
< 1293134116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: hmm i'd be better off using match rather than destructing with Qnum and Qden right?
< 1293134116 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see
< 1293134129 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait that means the theing is decidible
< 1293134137 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no because it's quantified
< 1293134143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: right
< 1293134148 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, http://sporksirc.net/~anmaster/minecraft/screenshots/overhang/
< 1293134152 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that beats mt hoover eh?
< 1293134154 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you destruct s it should simplify to the same thing
< 1293134166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, i've forgotten all the tactics
< 1293134189 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I wish there was another way to twirte proof, some sort of hand waving magic way
< 1293134217 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, take http://sporksirc.net/~anmaster/minecraft/screenshots/overhang/2010-12-23_19.57.42.png for example. That are two huge overhangs next to each other, not a full arch
< 1293134220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yeah like writing some stuff on paper, saying "the rest is left as an exercise to the reader", and calling it a day
< 1293134225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: why do we need computers to do it anyway!
< 1293134235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: heh
< 1293134261 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the rest of the pictures in that dir are quite nice too, showing off the THIRD huge overhang which is hidden in the picture I linked.
< 1293134278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I think that maybe "x = tt" is easier to work with than "if x then True else False"
< 1293134316 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1293134329 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you can't get up on one of them because it overhangs all around
< 1293134340 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the other two (including the largest one) you can get up on just fine
< 1293134368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   (if Zle_bool (p1 ^ 3) (3 * Z_of_nat (nat_of_P q1) ^ 3)
< 1293134369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    then True
< 1293134369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    else False) /\
< 1293134369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   ~
< 1293134369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   (if Zle_bool (p2 ^ 3) (3 * Z_of_nat (nat_of_P q2) ^ 3)
< 1293134369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    then True
< 1293134372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    else False) -> p1 # q1 < p2 # q2
< 1293134378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"do arithmetic yourself computer."
< 1293134381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zomg it worked!11
< 1293134416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: Omega: Unrecognized predicate or connective: Qlt
< 1293134417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you suck, Omega.
< 1293134504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: wanna do my proof for me? :p
< 1293134514 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there is an image on the improbable dungeon inside the overhang too
< 1293134577 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wait a second omega should handle Qle
< 1293134580 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qlt I mean
< 1293134591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: a second omega? it wouldn't even run once, because of that
< 1293134602 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :import QArith and stuff?
< 1293134605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: what upsets me is that it can't match (Is_true (... Zle_bool ...)) to Zle ...
< 1293134612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: oh i have an idea
< 1293134613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: instead of
< 1293134615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D : Q -> bool
< 1293134617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if it was
< 1293134621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D : Q -> Prop
< 1293134629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D_decide : forall x, (D x) \/ ~(D x)
< 1293134638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd give less Is_true crap right?
< 1293134848 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you might want to check out http://sporksirc.net/~anmaster/minecraft/screenshots/overhang/ too
< 1293134942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ============================
< 1293134943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   (1 ^ 3 <= 3 * Z_of_nat (nat_of_P 1) ^ 3)%Z
< 1293134945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's decidable you stupid prover
< 1293135019 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compute?
< 1293135089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, indeed, that works
< 1293135090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks :P
< 1293135110 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is this awesome: http://sporksirc.net/~anmaster/minecraft/screenshots/overhang/2010-12-23_19.59.38.png
< 1293135117 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, (see the dungeon!)
< 1293135129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn now what's the thing to do ~(x=y)
< 1293135132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for constructors x and y
< 1293135142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah congruence
< 1293135146 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discriminate
< 1293135158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   (Gt = Gt -> False) -> False
< 1293135168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: look at that filthy coq, with its ~~p!
< 1293135184 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1293135192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congruence sorts it out though :P
< 1293135199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   forall r s : Q,
< 1293135199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   match r with
< 1293135199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   | p # q => (p ^ 3 <= 3 * Z_of_nat (nat_of_P q) ^ 3)%Z
< 1293135199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   end /\
< 1293135199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   ~ match s with
< 1293135200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :     | p # q => (p ^ 3 <= 3 * Z_of_nat (nat_of_P q) ^ 3)%Z
< 1293135202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :     end -> r < s
< 1293135204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOW IS FUN TIEM
< 1293135213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: Omega: Unrecognized predicate or connective: Qlt
< 1293135215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why that is
< 1293135217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't omega do rats??
< 1293135241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: a creeper exploded one block from my house :)
< 1293135268 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ouch
< 1293135276 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, was it obsidian?
< 1293135284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, wood, but as i said, one block outside of blast radius
< 1293135287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the creeper one block away
< 1293135288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry
< 1293135290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be fair, i hit it with my sword
< 1293135298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, it got scared
< 1293135298 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293135308 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, scared to death
< 1293135317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. scared to explosion.
< 1293135327 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, it dies when it explodes
< 1293135343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   match r with
< 1293135343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   | p # q =>
< 1293135343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       match
< 1293135343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         match p with
< 1293135343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         | 0%Z => 0%Z
< 1293135343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         | (' x')%Z =>
< 1293135345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :             match
< 1293135347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :               match p with
< 1293135349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :               | 0%Z => 0%Z
< 1293135351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :               | (' x'0)%Z =>
< 1293135353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1293135355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: compute on this was a bad idea
< 1293135357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"match match" :D
< 1293135383 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293135397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: are you sure omega is meant to do Q?
< 1293135413 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I think it does
< 1293135419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1293135423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've imported QArith :/
< 1293135466 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no it does
< 1293135477 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z
< 1293135497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Require Import QArith.
< 1293135497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Require Import Omega.
< 1293135498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1293135545 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coq version 8.3 is before all a transition version with refinements or extensions of the existing features and libraries and a new tactic nsatz based on Hilbert’s Nullstellensatz for deciding systems of equations over rings. <--- interesting
< 1293135555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  p1 : Z
< 1293135555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  q1 : positive
< 1293135555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  p2 : Z
< 1293135555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  q2 : positive
< 1293135555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ============================
< 1293135555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   (p1 ^ 3 <= 3 * Z_of_nat (nat_of_P q1) ^ 3)%Z /\
< 1293135557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   ~ (p2 ^ 3 <= 3 * Z_of_nat (nat_of_P q2) ^ 3)%Z ->
< 1293135559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   p1 # q1 < p2 # q2
< 1293135561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :induction here doesn't look promising
< 1293135568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the conversions make things more painful here :/
< 1293135573 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does omega prove it?
< 1293135578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, omega doesn't do Qlt
< 1293135581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# is Qmake
< 1293135595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wish it was Q := Z*(q:Z)*(q>0)
< 1293135600 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well change it to p1 * q2 < p2 * q1
< 1293135610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: is there a premade lemma for that? :P
< 1293135623 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you just need p1 * q2 < p2 * q1 iff p1 # q1 < p2
< 1293135624 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#q2
< 1293135651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1293135661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope QArith has that
< 1293135676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notation QDen p := (Zpos (Qden p)).
< 1293135676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1293135732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  H0 : (p1 ^ 3 <= 3 * ' q1 ^ 3)%Z
< 1293135732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  H1 : ~ (p2 ^ 3 <= 3 * ' q2 ^ 3)%Z
< 1293135732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ============================
< 1293135732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   p1 # q1 < p2 # q2
< 1293135735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks less frightening now
< 1293135796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: lame, stdlib doesn't have that theorem
< 1293135822 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293135975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemma foo :
< 1293135975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  forall (p1 p2 : Z) (q1 q2 : positive),
< 1293135975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    (p1*'q2 < p2*'q1)%Z -> (p1#q1 < p2#q2)%Q.
< 1293135975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  auto.
< 1293135975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qed.
< 1293135978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was surprisingly painless
< 1293136019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  H1 : ~ (p2 ^ 3 <= 3 * ' q2 ^ 3)%Z
< 1293136021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just need to get this to be >
< 1293136108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemma Znot_ge_lt : forall n m:Z, ~ n >= m -> n < m.
< 1293136109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1293136175 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.114.29.124 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293136187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  set (H2 := Znot_le_gt (p2^3) (3*'q2^3) H1).
< 1293136187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  destruct H1.
< 1293136190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: is there a nicer way to do this?
< 1293136214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact that doesn't even work
< 1293136218 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, I tend to build everything from scratch
< 1293136241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I thought I wanted "rewrite Znot_le_gt in H1" but that doesn't work
< 1293136247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  H1 : ~ (p2 ^ 3 <= 3 * ' q2 ^ 3)%Z
< 1293136248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and iw ant
< 1293136253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  H1 : (p2 ^ 3 > 3 * ' q2 ^ 3)%Z
< 1293136258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemma Znot_le_gt : forall n m:Z, ~ n <= m -> n > m.
< 1293136259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1293136260 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see if you can rwewrite all the Q stuff in Z, then use omega for it
< 1293136264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rewrite Znot_le_gt in H1 doesn't work
< 1293136267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yeah that's what i've done
< 1293136271 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay
< 1293136274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but omega can't solve it
< 1293136278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I still need to get this rewrite out of the way
< 1293136281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm not sure how
< 1293136291 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try it in Coq
< 1293136340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: want the file
< 1293136347 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1293136369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: http://sprunge.us/BbLA
< 1293136427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I think Coq would be better if all the propositions weren't named... so instead of H1 and the like, there were just the types
< 1293136431 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an idea
< 1293136437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also all the proofs in Cut would just be the type with nothing before :
< 1293136438 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :letm e try this out
< 1293136443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to figure out names :P
< 1293136570 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit
< 1293136600 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it things A -> B is not quantifier free?
< 1293136658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: well that's a forall :D
< 1293136660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: just intro it
< 1293136700 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a second, maybe it's not even true
< 1293136722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: um i should hope not, since it's the example on wikipedia
< 1293136726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a computable dedekind cut
< 1293136748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: so it must be true, by wikipedian infallibility
< 1293136758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i think ic an hack the proof if youc an make "rewrite Znot_le_gt in H1" work :P
< 1293136959 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tested it in haskell and found no counter example
< 1293137004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, when coq users can't prove something they do it in haskell instead
< 1293137047 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant is my favorite thing ever
< 1293137069 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was writing an article once on near-integers, modular forms, and the j-invariant
< 1293137070 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O
< 1293137096 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just thought i might say that
< 1293137140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  D_true_ex_gt : forall r, D r -> (exists s, s > r /\ D s)
< 1293137143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: lol now THIS
< 1293137146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: this looks unfun
< 1293137153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I "admit"ted the previous one and am moving on for now)
< 1293137157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  r : Q
< 1293137158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  H : match r with
< 1293137158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      | p # q => (p ^ 3 <= 3 * ' q ^ 3)%Z
< 1293137158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      end
< 1293137158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ============================
< 1293137158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   exists s : Q,
< 1293137160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :     r < s /\ match s with
< 1293137162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :              | p # q => (p ^ 3 <= 3 * ' q ^ 3)%Z
< 1293137165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :              end
< 1293137167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOOKS EASY HUH
< 1293137171 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1293137185 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weather.Outside="frightful"; Fire.Delightful=true; Lights.Luminosity=WayDownLow; for (int i=1; i<=3; i++) { LetItSnow(); }
< 1293137207 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can't you encode the statement in SAT or SMT and try an automated prover (iirc coq is interactive?)
< 1293137225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's a rather ... generic statement
< 1293137231 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well yes
< 1293137236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coq has a ton of automatic solvers, none of them want to touch this :)
< 1293137241 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah...
< 1293137242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as i can tell
< 1293137263 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I was thinking about using something like alt-ergo or cvc3
< 1293137265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :step one is finding an s that satisfies
< 1293137287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: any ideas about what s to try? :p
< 1293137322 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what exactly are you trying to prove? I don't know co
< 1293137323 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coq*
< 1293137355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i'm trying to prove that D(p/q) = p^3 <= 3*(q^3) is a (computable) dedekind cut
< 1293137364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proving that it's the cube root of three is for after i have arithmetic. :p
< 1293137379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i.e. Yet Another approach to the computable reals
< 1293137390 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I guess I can't help until I first check what the heck dedekind cut is
< 1293137401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you ... don't know?
< 1293137407 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can't say I do no
< 1293137424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedekind_cut
< 1293137428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're the "usual" definition of the reals
< 1293137445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the computable version is described in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computable_number#Formal_definition starting "There is another equivalent definition"
< 1293137448 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, the definition is familiar
< 1293137455 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hi
< 1293137455 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but I don't think I ever heard it's name
< 1293137469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *its
< 1293137474 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Usual"?
< 1293137481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: well, i'd say so
< 1293137483 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well not sure about that.
< 1293137492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: dedekind cuts and cauchy sequences are the main ways
< 1293137492 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's not an approach to computable reals
< 1293137499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: what aren't?
< 1293137505 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: whatever you're doing
< 1293137505 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say the Cauchy sequence definition is far more common
< 1293137514 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the second one really cauched on!
< 1293137516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that may be so
< 1293137526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: that's both unhelpful and unjustified
< 1293137526 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry, but oerjan wasn't here)
< 1293137545 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if you want computable reals, you have to start talking about bounds and turing machines
< 1293137560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: I know what computable reals are. There are several approaches.
< 1293137576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. approximation functions, continued fractions, and this one, computable dedekind cuts
< 1293137605 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"computable dedekind cuts" sounds like a terrible idea
< 1293137644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: on what grounds?
< 1293137646 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually what are computable reals?
< 1293137651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: reals that are computable :-)
< 1293137660 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah but that's too vauge
< 1293137661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: clever use of shadows to give 32-colour images in minecraft: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/images/c/c4/Dither2.jpg
< 1293137673 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: a number which there is a finite process for computing the digits of to arbitrary precision
< 1293137675 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Markov made a nice article on that
< 1293137677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In mathematics, particularly theoretical computer science and mathematical logic, the computable numbers, also known as the recursive numbers or the computable reals, are the real numbers that can be computed to within any desired precision by a finite, terminating algorithm. Equivalent definitions can be given using μ-recursive functions, Turing machines or λ-calculus as the formal representation of algorithms."
< 1293137682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are tons of definitions i'd say
< 1293137686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're all equivalent. probably
< 1293137687 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they all equivalent?
< 1293137693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, wp says so.
< 1293137708 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A computable number was basically just defined as (f(x) - g(y))/h(z)
< 1293137718 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where all three functions are computable processes
< 1293137728 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::|
< 1293137739 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Owait
< 1293137752 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(f(x) - g(x)) / (1+h(x))
< 1293137776 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::|
< 1293137781 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wot
< 1293137817 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :YeshuaLord
< 1293137839 0 :YeshuaLord!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur
< 1293137875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: Can I have some bacon?
< 1293138034 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Deewiant is certainly right that the cauchy seq. defn is the usual defn of the reals
< 1293138045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but dedekind cuts aren't actually niche.
< 1293138074 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always thought I was alone with my cauchy sequences
< 1293138098 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who cares about the reals
< 1293138104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construction_of_the_real_numbers damn, wp lists dedekind second
< 1293138107 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole set of reals is useless!
< 1293138111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick, let's edit it to prove Quadrescence wrong
< 1293138125 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aleph one of it is basically not found in nature!
< 1293138146 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, my evidence is from reading books
< 1293138150 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not Wikipedia all day
< 1293138156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia disproves all books, obviously
< 1293138207 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cauchy sequence may be first because it's the most intuitive?
< 1293138227 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PROBABLY
< 1293138308 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 math classes. :D
< 1293138880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: notch should reintroduce holes in the bedrock, except make them correspond to holes in the nether ceiling
< 1293139241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: :( he's going to add degrade-on-hit
< 1293139262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there's a creeper jumping outside my door
< 1293139521 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: :( he's going to add degrade-on-hit
< 1293139521 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1293139525 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what do you mean
< 1293139539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: as in, your pick can break midway through mining obsidian
< 1293139542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's every hit that degrades it
< 1293139559 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what the...
< 1293139569 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so it won't last as long as before?
< 1293139572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it will
< 1293139578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the damage will be less
< 1293139585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, apparently block damage will last for like 10 seconds after you stop mining
< 1293139585 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293139590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have time to change to a new pick
< 1293139590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still
< 1293139594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i liked degrade-on-break
< 1293139604 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not as bad then as it could be
< 1293139631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CREEPER JUST TO THE RIGHT OF MY DOOR HOLY FUCKING SHIT
< 1293139641 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, change to peaceful?
< 1293139649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: on SMP?
< 1293139654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i killed it anyway
< 1293139656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy enough
< 1293139656 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293139675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waiting for someone to log in, kill some pigs, and share the bacon with me; I'll provide lodging in my house in return
< 1293139678 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well I'm waiting for the old world. Not really worth building anything in the current world
< 1293139679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only 2.5 hearts left :/
< 1293139679 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1293139692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no reason this world can't be brought out occasionally
< 1293139699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fun, i've already built a tall house
< 1293139708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and will mine once i can get coal for torches
< 1293139711 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, see, I like predictability
< 1293139720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1293139770 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "logging on thinking you will work on whatever your current project is. Huh, what, not the usual world?!"
< 1293139783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Or we could have it on predictable days ...
< 1293139788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say every two weeks or something.
< 1293139805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're going to say "no just trash it permanently": I built a house I like too, you know.
< 1293139814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except mine's in the survival world.
< 1293139835 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, donate to ineiros so he can get a good VPS to run all the servers on side by side
< 1293139844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just have the survival world come out at predictable times.
< 1293139859 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but yes I think we should switch world whenever you feel like working on glass cube
< 1293139872 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds good, switch away from the glass cube one then
< 1293139908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Are you just trying to be a dick, or are you really so dense that you'll demand that the peaceful world is kept constantly because of ~YOUR BEAUTIFUL HOUSE~ while completely disregarding the fact that I've built things in the survival world, too, and plan to continue doing so?
< 1293139942 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but you are the only one who built stuff there
< 1293139946 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you against all the other ones?
< 1293139967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I didn't say "trash the peaceful world".
< 1293139970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said "have the survival world occasionally".
< 1293139985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, the beta update for hMod won't be out for a little while, and this is only the first day of the survival server.
< 1293139994 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah, maybe one day per moth
< 1293139996 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :month*
< 1293140004 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or whenever hmod breaks due to upgrade
< 1293140010 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter seems fair
< 1293140021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I agree, let's only have your house when hMod breaks.
< 1293140065 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ... the other way around
< 1293140082 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but I predict it will break fairly often
< 1293140083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahh, I see; your house is worth more because you made it.
< 1293140085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your arguments, they are stellar.
< 1293140091 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no it is the hmod world.
< 1293140105 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, further, it also happens to contain a LOT more
< 1293140109 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :built by other people
< 1293140119 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fizzie, nailor, ineiros, PH and so on
< 1293140136 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so you hate the "wonder's of the world" thing.
< 1293140158 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you strawman me, then you get the same shit back)
< 1293140161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: any luck?
< 1293140365 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293140385 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the proof is 3 lines :D
< 1293140388 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or you could just switch topic...
< 1293140390 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you did
< 1293140398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: of what?
< 1293140402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which part i mean
< 1293140413 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :equivalence relation on natural transform
< 1293140422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, not my dedekind cuts :P
< 1293140428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1293140430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, though
< 1293140528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: have you seen http://coq.inria.fr/stdlib/Coq.Logic.IndefiniteDescription.html?
< 1293140601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: I'll bribe you for bacon. :p
< 1293140626 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: In retrospect, cunionfs is awesome :P
< 1293140665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What's so awesome about it? :p
< 1293140684 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should make a program to copy a CD/DVD with error emulation and other options. In case of error, it makes a error emulation file that the driver will emulate errors when reading the copy.
< 1293140757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm considering writing a package manager based on it, please tell me it actually works well >_>
< 1293140786 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh it works fine, that's never been the issue, it just doesn't do much (it's just a per-process union FS)
< 1293140792 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also a function to tell it to copy the entire disc even if it says only part of it has data, try copying everything anyways even if it says nothing there.
< 1293140850 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But what I imagine it's most useful for is building packages in a constrained environment where you don't want "smart" configuration dragging in dev packages you didn't want.
< 1293140908 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: As well as, of course, "enterprise"y environments like I said before.
< 1293140912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: But what I imagine it's most useful for is building packages in a constrained environment where you don't want "smart" configuration dragging in dev packages you didn't want.
< 1293140916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITT: Debian and Fedora both have this
< 1293140950 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but they do that in a fairly-bizarre way, this is just "let me see this, OK now they're in /usr"
< 1293140964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So can you mount / as a cuneiformfs? :P
< 1293141000 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking about that, and my answer is yes-and-no. You could, if you're willing to do that first-thing then do (most) everything else under chroot.
< 1293141046 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only real problem is that the directories you mount under it need to exist, but for them to exist they need to be in another FS (to be unioned in)
< 1293141138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I was thinking about that, and my answer is yes-and-no. You could, if you're willing to do that first-thing then do (most) everything else under chroot.
< 1293141139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :switch_root
< 1293141142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly
< 1293141147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what initramfses do IIRC
< 1293141158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it pulverises your existing / :P
< 1293141165 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't resolve the issue I mentioned later.
< 1293141186 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The directories you're going to mount /other/ filesystems to need to exist, but for them to exist, they need to ... already exist :P
< 1293141248 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello there.
< 1293141262 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To have two degrees instead of 1, I need: 1 extra class.
< 1293141378 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://coq.pastebin.com/xnGjabR6 line 481
< 1293141422 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't look at lines nera 200 :P
< 1293141446 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that stuff is awful but I don't know a better way
< 1293141469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i like it, i also think that it will never work as an stdlib :D
< 1293141514 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm going to try to define universal cones so I can get things like products
< 1293141568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds good
< 1293141585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: For a stow-alike, are there any advantages to cunionfs over unionfs? :p
< 1293141600 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why wont it work as a stdlib?
< 1293141608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: well it might with enough layering
< 1293141616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i just mean, if you have to build categories like that all the time
< 1293141648 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think (but I have to study this first) you can define a 'type theory' category, and just use that for everything
< 1293141650 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, every process can see its own stowish environment, giving it the build advantage I mentioned before, as well as the ability to have conflicting packages installed simultaneously, etc. Whether that's an advantage to you depends on what you want *shrugs*
< 1293141663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That's an sps-alike, not a stow-alike :P
< 1293141675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But yeah, compelling.
< 1293141682 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but that might be like defining a self interpreter for coq so..
< 1293141685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Now guarantee that cunionfs is stable enough to use in Kitten :P
< 1293141686 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: For a stow-alike, are there any advantages to unionfs over ... stow?
< 1293141690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yeah ...
< 1293141694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: also it'd be rather abstract
< 1293141697 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can't guarantee anything, it's F/OSS :P
< 1293141698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: like coding ASTs manually
< 1293141703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: stow uses ... symlinks.
< 1293141706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask pikhq for the gory details.
< 1293141717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: Symlinks are pretty much the devil.
< 1293141735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, half-guarantee then :P
< 1293141735 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to implement something like Knuth Bendix completion to automatically prove theorems
< 1293141755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: GNU stow does nothing more than looking in the stow directory and checking for files that aren't symlinked into the path.
< 1293141775 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have fair confidence that cunionfs is sufficiently stable, and that any stability issues are sufficiently minor that they could be fixed in short order.
< 1293141790 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not *terrible*, but it's only one step removed from Slackware's "untar things to root".
< 1293141818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: By you or me :P
< 1293141821 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, it claims to be a package manager for people who don't want package managers, right? :P
< 1293141833 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: By me if they're interesting :P
< 1293141844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stow is the official package manager of the GNU Operating System.
< 1293141847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True story.
< 1293141853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And cpio the official archiver :P
< 1293141857 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Frankly, I'd very much like to see a package manager properly integrated with cunionfs, so it's in my best interest to be helpful.
< 1293141880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Note: It would not plug into an existing package manager, it'd be an entirely new one based on cunionfs :P
< 1293141884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't like it, SUX2BEU.
< 1293141884 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is definitely going to end up with a dual major, then.

< 1293141906 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 credit hours extra for the freaking second major? Hells yes.
< 1293141910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Mathematical Knitting and Advanced Haberdashery?
< 1293141911 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: My integration with dpkg was ... spotty at best, mainly because dpkg (as with all other package managers) is wildly unsuited to union-based "transient" packages.
< 1293141922 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: CS and mathematics.
< 1293141933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: U BORIN
< 1293141945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would pay endless amounts of money for a degree in Advanced Haberdashery.
< 1293141967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: To be honest, the actual package manager part looks suspiciously close to "untar into /pkg/x" the way this is looking :P
< 1293141968 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bestows upon elliott a B.A. in Advanced Haberdashery.

< 1293141978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yæy
< 1293141990 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If it has SOME dependency management beyond that, that'd be nice :P
< 1293142006 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I increasingly regret not getting a minor in archaeology when I had the chance :(
< 1293142017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, but the actual install part :P
< 1293142029 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I could also pick up a minor in just about anything.
< 1293142035 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Er, anything liberal arts-y.
< 1293142037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sidenote on archaeology: Indiana Jones films -- 10x better if he sat there doing actual archaeology when shit was doing down? Answer: yes.
< 1293142050 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You see, the liberal arts requirements are completely undefined.
< 1293142061 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except in terms of credit hours needed.
< 1293142068 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I see no reason why the /install/ would be anything else, it's just the runtime choice of packages to union in that's interesting.
< 1293142076 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Awesome. Awesome to the max.
< 1293142099 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How I would do it, is package manager operating by pipes. I would do it other programs are also operating by pipes.
< 1293142198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wait, you mean when you do "emacs" it should create a new union with ONLY THE THINGS EMACS NEEDS?
< 1293142214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That has the major flaw that looking at /usr/bin with emacs would make me go wtf and get angry at my computer for being too smart :P
< 1293142226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also bash.
< 1293142321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Or is that not what you meant.
< 1293142463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :|
< 1293142533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hypothesise that Gregor cannot see his IRC client from inside his current process.
< 1293142597 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frustrating: Terminal objects are defined by universal cones on the empty diagram... but universal cones are defined in terms of terminal object. So i have to define terminal objects twice
< 1293142724 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293142905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have pioneered a new type of mining.
< 1293142920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: mutually recursive objects!
< 1293142949 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mutual recursion is terrifying
< 1293143024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: oi
< 1293143079 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh?
< 1293143126 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1293143188 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, any details?
< 1293143385 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you mean: A New Kind of Mining.
< 1293143445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes. I call it: Creeper mining.
< 1293143450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It also works for cutting down trees.
< 1293143490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Basically, you keep all your possessions in a chest. Then at night you walk out, see somewhere you'd like to mine/chop, and get a creeper there.
< 1293143492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you walk into it.
< 1293143553 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reappears.

< 1293143563 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, I do not mean that when you type "emacs", it should create a new union.
< 1293143586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But that would be awesometerrible :P
< 1293143627 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The unions are, at the minimal, by process-level, but most users would probably opt to just have their own master list, and the system would presumably have a semi-compulsory list. Users could of course opt to make more/less restricted lists for individual processes if they so desired, but the default (for sanity) would be to /behave/ as a per-user package system, while providing sufficient abstraction for per-process.
< 1293143685 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think of it like open fds: If you keep on opening new shit, it's going to have the same std{in,out,error}, unless you or it opt not to.
< 1293143689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How does one actually add a new union?
< 1293143740 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: CUNIONFS_DIRS environment variable, which (originally, Idonno if I reimplemented this in cunionfs (yet) or not) was backed by a per-user configuration file, backed by a per-system configuration file.
< 1293143771 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But since environment variables are passed exactly like fds, that abstraction fits best.
< 1293143818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hmm
< 1293143827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Woo me with its features
< 1293143837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The saddest creeper: standing in a tree, facing the leaves, so that it will never see anything.
< 1293143874 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't have sufficient motivation to try so hard; if you want each process to have its own unique and easily-malleable view of the FS, you want cunionfs. Otherwise, you don't.
< 1293143897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't, but I do want semi-sane builds and stow-like package management :P
< 1293143971 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my opinion "stow-like" is a bad compromise. So long as you have everything separated, there's no need to use something so clunky as a whole-system union to view it.
< 1293144003 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293144036 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :The sillier you are to the batsman, the closer you are. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1293144089 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, once again, it comes down to needs/wants: If you want more flexibility in what individual users/processes/whatever sees, then you really don't have all that many options .. it's either a smarter unionfs or something that clunks together a bunch of PATH, LD_LIBRARY_PATH, CFLAGS, LDFLAGS, etc etc environment variables.
< 1293144100 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't, don't use it :P
< 1293144103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : In my opinion "stow-like" is a bad compromise. So long as you have everything separated, there's no need to use something so clunky as a whole-system union to view it.
< 1293144110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would you have as the usual configuration, then, if not "all packages exposed"?
< 1293144112 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have time now to review my TeXnicard program so far?  http://sprunge.us/RgEZ
< 1293144170 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "All packages" could very well have conflicting packages in it. The default would be defined by the package manager. It would probably be what most distros consider a "task", or just whatever the system maintainer cared to make default.
< 1293144224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm just saying that in general, 99.9% of the packages would be available, since two conflicting packages are rather rare to install
< 1293144235 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember, packages have versions too.
< 1293144249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK then, the default would be the largest set of non-conflicting packages or whatever.
< 1293144252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But that's still stow-like
< 1293144275 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. with stow, macports, etc you can have multiple versions of programs/libraries installed. Then you can swap them out when there are incompatibilities, bugs, whatever. A cunionfs-based system would let you work around such bugs on a per-process basis without having to do anything particularly crazy.
< 1293144311 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But once again, all the cases I've listed where cunionfs gives you advantages over something whole-system are sort of corner-cases, I just argue that there are sufficiently many such corner cases that giving the flexibility /might/ be worthwhile *shrugs*
< 1293144331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: To be honest, I'd go straight to unionfs if not for the nice-builds thing. That seems compelling to me.
< 1293144343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, well, how easy is it to change the union of a unionfs/aufs mount without umounting?
< 1293144346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not easy: CUNIONFS IT IS
< 1293144350 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone up for bacon?
< 1293144361 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have no idea, probably not difficult.
< 1293144364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: Well. Uh. I sorta died enough that I have full health now. But you can come see my house!
< 1293144394 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: Why do you ask?
< 1293144503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not very hard; mount -o remount
< 1293144514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is there any window of not-workingness for the mount?
< 1293144536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Still, I could avoid chroots entirely with cunionfs... right? For building, I mean.
< 1293144545 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1293144564 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd just say "give me these dev packages, OK now build"
< 1293144606 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The inodes aren't guaranteed to remain the same across a remount, but otherwise everything continues to work.
< 1293144644 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I need to design a language for category theory (so I can automatically compute things like duals)
< 1293144660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yea
< 1293144675 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Do you have ideas how you can do that?
< 1293144694 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: not yet but I am wondering if it could be done in terms of category theory
< 1293144711 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: How much do you know of category theory?
< 1293144784 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think I finally have the basic definitions down, but that took a long time
< 1293145194 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think the mindset can take a long time to learn because a lot of things can be descrivbed in this language in a very conscice way which you would not expect
< 1293145268 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, like TNT, creepers destroy a percentage of the blocsk
< 1293145271 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blocks*
< 1293145348 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What is the percentage?
< 1293145615 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone told me that Wikipedia will be removed. Is that true?
< 1293145655 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I doubt it unless there is a good reason
< 1293145671 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without an explanation there is no reason to beleive it
< 1293145686 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: They told me it is because they have no more money.
< 1293145695 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that sounds like a hoax
< 1293145708 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit!
< 1293145722 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went to wikipedia to click on the advert bar.. now its gone
< 1293145792 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I look too and it is gone. I also looked in the meta and in the preferences and did not find information about it.
< 1293145934 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, the bar at the top of http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate looks rather bad though
< 1293145951 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad? they have 12.5 million dollars
< 1293145963 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: O, that is where they moved it to.
< 1293145973 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, oh wait, it needs js
< 1293145973 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks Vorpal that's what I was looking for
< 1293145983 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, that looks very very different when I allow it in no-script
< 1293146010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i thought you were mentioning Vorpal for no reason XD
< 1293146047 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, who?
< 1293146053 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(who was mentioning I mean)
< 1293146056 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(zzo or j-inv)
< 1293146103 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm, I suspect you have me on ignore.
< 1293146126 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well
< 1293146146 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he can't take being wrong I guess.
< 1293146201 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But what if you are being unsure instead of just plainly wrong?
< 1293146222 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what? I'm not wrong. elliott is
< 1293146237 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, please read what I actually wrote
< 1293146242 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I didn't mean you personally. I meant in general.
< 1293146245 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293146257 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what about it
< 1293146332 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Maybe I am not writing clearly.
< 1293146352 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, maybe.
< 1293146618 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now review TeXnicard program! Tell me if there is any mistake, thing I forgot, opinion, question, etc.   http://sprunge.us/RgEZ
< 1293146632 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And did you notice I changed a few words around in the topic message for this channel, today?
< 1293146761 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell me if (in your opinion) I did the random numbers correctly.
< 1293146962 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, fizzie, elliott and others who might care:  I put the normal world back up, without hMod. The backups are now unattended and done without turning the level saving off, so there's a good chance they won't all go as planned.
< 1293147111 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293147729 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, heh
< 1293147760 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, is it without monsters?
< 1293147887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: /msg
< 1293148687 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "The concrete details of a given construction may be messy, but if the construction satisfies a universal property, one can forget all those details: all there is to know about the construct is already contained in the universal property" - quoted from Dear Learder Wikipedia
< 1293148730 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's sort of like proof irrelevance, but for general constructions
< 1293148731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: it's like a philosophy of life!
< 1293148761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: hmm, that reminds me of how in non-dependent functional langs, you can encode values as their type's fold combinator
< 1293148782 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the univesral property :P
< 1293148795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1293148837 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cs.nott.ac.uk/~gmh/cat5.txt
< 1293148857 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :initial F-algebra
< 1293148877 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue about GADT though
< 1293148922 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think F-algebra will work for all simple data types
< 1293148955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: lol you might want to try and make your library multiple files
< 1293148966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's gonna be like 10,000 lines when you're done
< 1293148986 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how X)
< 1293149003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I think "Require Import Foo." will work if Foo.v is in .
< 1293149018 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be good to compile each bit seperately
< 1293149046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: if you ever manage to construct lists and map inside this ... I dare you to extract "map"
< 1293149060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be the ugliest fucntion ever
< 1293149060 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1293149061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*function
< 1293149064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(when extracted)
< 1293149074 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might be able to contribute to Evolution of a haskell programmer...
< 1293149097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: :D
< 1293149098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brilliant
< 1293149192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I wish Coq did some ugly special-casing for nats ... they're so slow and limited
< 1293149199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there's the binary nats somewhere, but ...
< 1293149221 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah numbers must be implemented in binary, peano is only useful for theory
< 1293149245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: still, even the binary nats aren't so hot
< 1293149254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I'd like it if it just special-cased nat and represented it internally as a machine word / bignum
< 1293149263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still allowed you to destruct on S to decrement one, etc
< 1293149265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*etc.
< 1293149283 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a funny idea
< 1293149284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fact and the like would be slow, but they wouldn't use up 34238490424 jiggabytes of memory
< 1293149289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: funny how?
< 1293149317 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean where would the implemeentaiton get the idea to use binary?
< 1293149329 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and more generally what else could it optimize
< 1293149334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: oh, I meant just hardcoding it ;-)
< 1293149337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ugly as hell, certainly
< 1293149339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nats are very common
< 1293149355 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes numbers seem to be special in some sense
< 1293149366 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never understood that
< 1293149383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean? you mean that numbers tend to be more useful/common than non-number structures?
< 1293149401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's because we looked at the most useful algebraic structures and called them numbers, and decided the less useful ones didn't count as numbers
< 1293149457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I think I will build it on top of cunionfs... is performance ok? i've always felt like fuse is slow but that may just be bias
< 1293149482 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293149493 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :natural numbers are universal in the category of discrete dynamical systems
< 1293149533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i think it may be due to our bias -- we think numbers are interesting, so we tend to look more into something once we see numbers appear
< 1293149536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and disregard things that aren't so numbery
< 1293149540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, in a very general sense
< 1293149545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus why numbers seem pretty darn common
< 1293149576 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I cannot come up with any counter-argument to that but I don't think it's true
< 1293149593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: when in doubt, i like to blame humans :)
< 1293149601 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah some words got stuck on my head
< 1293149602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i mean, let's put it this way
< 1293149614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: there's as much mathematics not involving numbers as there is mathematics involving numbers.
< 1293149618 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason I keep thinking of the phrase "high performance JIT cheese"
< 1293149627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: so the /only/ factor in consideration here is, why do the mathematics /we've explored/ involve numbers a lot?
< 1293149631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i suspect the answer is: because we like numbers
< 1293149663 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I haven't tested performance much 8-D
< 1293149672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That is not reassuring :-\
< 1293149682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: https://codu.org/projects/trac/sps/changeset/6%3A8584c8e2c0ed/cunionfs Why did you do this, I don't like it :p
< 1293149695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p.s.
< 1293149698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    char *dotfile;
< 1293149698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        sprintf(dotfile, "%s%s", curd, CUNIONFS_DOTFILE);
< 1293149700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol unallocated?
< 1293149705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait you allocate it later
< 1293149859 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I do that so that you can't cause packages to do things they ought to be finding files at weird paths which just-so-happen to have the right names.
< 1293149876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Your sentence does not parse.
< 1293149881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cause packages to do things they ought to be finding files at weird paths"
< 1293149918 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I do that so that you can't cause packages to do things they oughtn't to by finding files at weird paths which just-so-happen to have the right names.
< 1293149975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't get it :P
< 1293149977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Example?
< 1293150030 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have / mounted as cunionfs, and a version of sudo that isn't smart about checking the permissions of the sudoers file (it assumes only root can write to /etc). You make your own sudoers file in /home/mrhappy/evil/etc/sudoers, then mount that over / with cunionfs.
< 1293150078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Heh. Actually come to think of it I'll probably end up with / being an aufs of {regular filesystem, cunionfs for /bin /lib /share etc.}
< 1293150088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., process-specific /var and /home sounds "no".
< 1293150104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Union of a union... you know what, this is an EXCELLENT argument for /usr.
< 1293150149 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db42ffd.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293150157 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just a specific case, it's not really solved by contracting your unions a bit :P
< 1293150180 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, I assumed you'd have something else mounted over /var, /home and /root if you don't have /home/root, those are all silly to union.
< 1293150185 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as expected, getting lava from spawn no longer works
< 1293150198 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: could a brain exist which was obsessed with something other than numbers?
< 1293150222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Sure, why not.
< 1293150233 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it would self destruct
< 1293150237 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buenas
< 1293150240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I don't see why.
< 1293150251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Maybe I'll have no /bin, /lib, /share, and put it all in a cunionfs /usr :P
< 1293150263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: / = {/usr, /var, /home, /tmp, /boot} or something.
< 1293150270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: / = {/usr, /var, /home, /tmp, /boot, /etc} or something.
< 1293150283 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was the original intention behind SPS :P
< 1293150298 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I had a /bin and /lib for really-core stuff (libc, coreutils)
< 1293150315 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So that if for some reason your package setup was punked, you weren't completely screwed)
< 1293150391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor:  Well, I had a /bin and /lib for really-core stuff (libc, coreutils)
< 1293150395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: cal(1) is really-core? :P
< 1293150417 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude, my system won't even BOOT without cal.
< 1293150452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The nice thing is that with Kitten, you're always completely screwed.
< 1293150455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I don't have to worry about that
< 1293150457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that!
< 1293150475 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, did you have stuff like fsck and mount in /bin too?
< 1293150488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: On a more srs note, I can't really have a cunionfs /, because I have no initramfs in Kitten :P
< 1293150492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So / kinda has to be a real drive.
< 1293150506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DESCRIPTION
< 1293150506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       switch_root moves already mounted /proc, /dev and /sys to newroot and makes newroot the new root filesystem and starts init
< 1293150506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       process.
< 1293150506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       WARNING: switch_root removes recursively all files and directories on the current root filesystem.
< 1293150507 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah
< 1293150508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why it has to do that.
< 1293150517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BURN YOUR BRIDGES!
< 1293150557 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, to shrink the tmpfs size to 0 iirc
< 1293150602 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night →
< 1293150691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Do I get extra points if my package manager is Haskell?
< 1293150699 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No :P
< 1293150735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: WHY NOPT
< 1293150736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*NOT
< 1293150750 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE HASKELL KILLED MY FAMILY
< 1293150759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Mine too!
< 1293150780 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG JOIN US IN ##haskellkilledmyfamilyanonymous
< 1293150787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DONE
< 1293150792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU'RE NOT THERE
< 1293150802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSO YOU'RE NOT ANONYMOUS
< 1293150823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Actually, shipping Haskell with a statically linked system sounds slightly stupid, as the executable will probably be around 100 MiB :P
< 1293151015 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be surprised if GHC can't even make static executables (without some hacking)
< 1293151032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It can, I just tried.
< 1293151041 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, THERE GOES THAT THEORY.
< 1293151045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~$ ghc hello.hs -static -optl="-static" -optl="-pthread" ; ls -lh a.out
< 1293151045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compilation IS NOT required
< 1293151046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rwxr-xr-x 1 elliott elliott 1.7M Dec 24 00:36 a.out
< 1293151057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Post-stripping:
< 1293151059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rwxr-xr-x 1 elliott elliott 1.2M Dec 24 00:37 a.out
< 1293151060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT BAD ACTUALY
< 1293151062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ACTUALLY
< 1293151108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's actually pretty damn good ...
< 1293151232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Dammit man -- the package manager has to be functionally pure now.
< 1293151239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You've turned my OS into a bad recreation of NixOS.
< 1293151250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: _|_, and that's a middle finger, not the bottom value.
< 1293151329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Um. Question.
< 1293151335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is "nm -a" supposed to work on statically linked executables?
< 1293151337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unstripped ones.)
< 1293151355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ file hello
< 1293151355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (GNU/Linux), statically linked, for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, not stripped
< 1293151359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, it did actually work then :P
< 1293152043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wait, can you add to the unioned directories without restarting a process?
< 1293152398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :p
< 1293152407 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1293152953 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :65 pages so far!
< 1293152969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: y/n?
< 1293153005 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess how many pages there will be when it is done. (Remember it also will have the function to read commands from DVI, as well.) When it is done, we can see how close you are to correct answer.
< 1293153029 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it?
< 1293153069 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Are you asking me?
< 1293153127 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: If you are: It is TeXnicard.
< 1293153143 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: At present, no. Adding that wouldn't be particularly major, and it's something that's in the Eternal Todo o' Abandoned Projects :P
< 1293153152 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Remember the page count of 65 pages also includes the index, summary of chunks, and table of contents.)
< 1293153175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that's kinda dealbreaking ... you have to restart your whole X just to see the new package you installed or whatever
< 1293153180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even init, if you want it at every levle
< 1293153181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*levl
< 1293153184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*leve-fucking-l
< 1293153335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: or am i mistaken :P
< 1293153342 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How I think package manager should work, is, if you want to install a package, you add it to the dependency list of the "locally installed packages" package.
< 1293153352 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Adding that wouldn't be particularly major, and it's something that's in the Eternal Todo o' Abandoned Projects. Just need a way to tell the process "I want you to reevaluate my package list like so", probably by a file-write.
< 1293153371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Right, I'm just checking that, in fact, this has the major of issue requiring an effective-reboot to isntall a package :P
< 1293153402 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like my ideas about package managers? Do you think they are wrong for some reason(s)?
< 1293153414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: "based on pipes" isn't very descriptive
< 1293153441 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you want it to be visible to everyone, it's just a matter of putting it in the global configuration file. If you want it to be visible to a user, it's a matter of putting it in their user configuration file. If you want it to be visible to some process or process group, that's more tricky.
< 1293153464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK, so it rereads the config file all the time?
< 1293153471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was unaware that it had configuration files.
< 1293153479 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I haven't re-added the configuration files :P
< 1293153496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So what you're TRYING to say is:
< 1293153497 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The way it worked in D was with that daemon (the name of which I can't remember) which informs a process when a file has changed.
< 1293153503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If you want it to be visible to anyone, reboot.
< 1293153508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If you want it to be visible to a user, reboot.
< 1293153513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If you want it to be visible to some process or process group, reboot.
< 1293153518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the actual state. Yes? :P
< 1293153522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: The way it worked in D was with that daemon (the name of which I can't remember) which informs a process when a file has changed.
< 1293153525 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Look, you just dug up a project that I abandoned midway and you're expecting it to have features that are still on the TODO list. Fuck you.
< 1293153529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: fam, but nobody uses it any more
< 1293153539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamin is used, which is a daemonless impl of the api
< 1293153547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm not expecting, I'm just /checking/
< 1293153557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since your previous statement implied that there were, in fact, configuration files.
< 1293153566 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean, for example:  wg -MR0 ftp://example.org/packages/* | pm -tQ | ...
< 1293153573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: wg?
< 1293153578 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You're also expecting me to remember the exact state I abandoned it in.
< 1293153591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, you did just say that in retrospect it was pretty awesome earlier :P
< 1293153605 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: This is just an example of new programs I might make if I make a distro. wg is like wget except that multiple retrieval is sent to stdout as a tape archive.
< 1293153607 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And it is :P
< 1293153612 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And pm is package manager.
< 1293153634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'ma go for aufs, with the magical property of allowing me to remount without reooting :P
< 1293153635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rebooting
< 1293153650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unless "mount -o remount" would work with cunionfs? Wait, FUSE, so no.)
< 1293153662 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But what about the other idea, that if you want to install a package, you add it to the dependency list of the "locally installed packages" package?
< 1293153670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Sure.
< 1293153703 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do some package managers do that?
< 1293153753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably.
< 1293153802 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do any package managers work by pipes? Some new programs are not pipe but some old UNIX programs are designed with pipe operation, and I think it is good idea and new programs in UNIX should also work like that too.
< 1293153911 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, probably some programs on UNIX can already work with pipes, such as:   curl http://example.org/mail.tar.gz | zcat | tar -x
< 1293153977 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293154056 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that is how I want to make a Linux distribution, nearly all program are operated by doing pipes. Including the window manager.
< 1293154293 0 :BlSlereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-17-245.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293154348 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1293154351 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1293154351 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1293154360 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1293154370 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293154371 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*.net *.split
< 1293154385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not minecrafting?
< 1293155061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: WHAT THE FUCK
< 1293155108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So, I come out of the track from nailor's cabin. Floor is obsidian. I break my cart while in it as usual. Normally I go into the lava below and catch fire for like, 0.25s before going back to normal. Except this time, I *stayed in the fire, died, and lost all my possessions*.
< 1293155114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I WANT MY FUCKING STUFF BACK, NOTCH ;__;
< 1293155309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1293155366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iiiiit's Notch Quality!
< 1293155429 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-209-62.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293155537 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ch//
< 1293155675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i need help
< 1293155933 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db42ffd.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293156426 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: heh me too
< 1293156428 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats up?
< 1293156437 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: If God Had Intended Us To Play In Ten Tones Per Octave, Then He Would Have Given Us Ten Fingers.
< 1293156457 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am sick of trying to defin a symbolic category, it's really hard
< 1293156465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  p : Z
< 1293156465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  q : positive
< 1293156465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  H : (p ^ 3 <= 3 * ' q ^ 3)%Z
< 1293156465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ============================
< 1293156465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   exists s : Q,
< 1293156466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :     p # q < s /\ match s with
< 1293156467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                  | p0 # q0 => (p0 ^ 3 <= 3 * ' q0 ^ 3)%Z
< 1293156469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                  end
< 1293156471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: must prove.
< 1293156557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i.e. "given an underestimate of 3root(3), generate a closer underestimate"
< 1293156864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: any ideas? :/
< 1293156872 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying something righ tnow
< 1293156966 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p/q |--> (2*p^3 + 3*q^3)/(3*q*p^2)  tends toward the cube root of 3 but it never satisfies p^3 <= 3q^3
< 1293156998 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you look at the continued fraction you get one on either side of cuberoot(3), so you could just take all the odd ones... but that means implementing all the continued fraction stuff
< 1293157101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yeah and that kinda defeats the point
< 1293157127 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get a recurrence from the continued fraction for quadratics, but I think there is a theorem that says a state machine can't generate the continued fraction of any higher irrationality
< 1293157129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I think this "computable Dedekind cut" approach would be nice if not for the proofs :/
< 1293157158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: really? that theorem
< 1293157164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: would mean you can't use continued fractions for computable reals...
< 1293157200 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stated it wrong
< 1293157233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293157284 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://arxiv.org/pdf/1012.1709
< 1293157365 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The continued fraction expansion of an algebraic number of degree at least
< 1293157365 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :three cannot be generated by a finite automaton.
< 1293157435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that's not good is it?
< 1293157445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I mean could Coq do it? I don't actually know what computational class Coq is
< 1293157611 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: my guess is that constructive dedekind cuts are what intuitionists that have never seen a computer use
< 1293157644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: :D
< 1293157717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: have you ever used c-corn's constructive reals?
< 1293157721 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1293157755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what does :> mean again? in a coq type
< 1293157756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to :
< 1293157761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a record field declaration
< 1293157788 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's something to do with pretening the record is another type
< 1293157898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird
< 1293157906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: hmm you mean like
< 1293157911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Record blah := mkBlah { foo :> nat; bar : ... }
< 1293157914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use a blah as a nat?
< 1293157967 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1293157976 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I don't really know I don't use that, but it's something like that
< 1293157980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I could do algebraic structures like that!
< 1293157982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIME TO TRY IT OUT
< 1293158003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leave king dedede... sorry, dede.v for now
< 1293158006 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still haven't been able to define this damned symbolc category
< 1293158012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: what category is it exactly?
< 1293158031 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it's just graphs, that's a simpler way to think of it.
< 1293158058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you disable the coq stdlib in the file again? :/
< 1293158061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait i have it here somewhere
< 1293158067 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually graph isn't right
< 1293158074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*
< 1293158074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** Local Variables: ***
< 1293158074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** coq-prog-args: ("-emacs-U" "-nois") ***
< 1293158074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** End: ***
< 1293158074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*)
< 1293158075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right?
< 1293158103 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea is: Inductive Symbolic_Maps : nat -> nat -> Type := f 3 4 | h 2 1 | k 2 1 | m 3 4.
< 1293158109 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1293158116 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a bad example
< 1293158130 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets take Inductive Symbolic_Maps : nat -> nat -> Type := f 3 4 | h 4 1 | k 1 6 | m 3 4.
< 1293158144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is 3 the type w/ three elements?
< 1293158145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here
< 1293158154 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no just the number 3, or it could be any symbolc
< 1293158167 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so f : Symbolic_Maps 3 4
< 1293158177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293158210 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we need something like lists, Inductive Symbolic_Mappings : nat -> nat -> Type := nil : forall x, Symbolic_Mappings x x ; cons : forall a b c, Symbolic_Map a b -> Symbolic_Mappings b c -> Symbolic_Mappings a c.
< 1293158254 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the identity is nil and composition is append.. then things like   (f o g) o (k o h) = (f o (g o k)) o h  would be provable by reflexivity
< 1293158269 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a functor from Symbolic -> C would prove the same identity in any other category
< 1293158306 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now, to prove (f o g) o (k o h) = (f o (g o k)) o h .. it takes 300 lines of proof script
< 1293158650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I wish Coq had like, a minimal stdlib with it
< 1293158654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :giving eq, exists, that kind of stuff
< 1293158658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than having to code it myself
< 1293158681 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use mine
< 1293158702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: got a link again?
< 1293158721 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/BQaW0Cdb this is before I start defining category
< 1293158743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks, I'll nab useful bits from there as I go :)
< 1293158743 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Decidable is spelled wrong :/
< 1293158750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Coq has And/Or built in doesn't it?
< 1293158756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does "# Arguments." do :P
< 1293158758 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1293158784 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mispaste, should have been Set Implicit Arguments.
< 1293158855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I think set implicit arguments actually gets in my way
< 1293158866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nice to have to specify what gets implicit-ified
< 1293158974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inductive or (P Q : Prop) : Prop :=
< 1293158974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| zig : P -> or P Q
< 1293158974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| zag : Q -> or P Q.
< 1293158976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like my names more
< 1293159225 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheh
< 1293159269 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION assassinates Active Worlds's asinine update methods

< 1293159510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: Unknown interpretation for notation "_ /\ _".
< 1293159512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that mean again?
< 1293159519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1293159531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go
< 1293159617 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( my symbolic category does not work
< 1293159641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1293159648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i've defined up to abelian groups, now to watch the whole thing fall apart as i try and do rngs
< 1293159661 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rings because that has two operations?
< 1293159669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: because it's a combination of two structures, basically
< 1293159675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: and my structures have set fields
< 1293159683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I might restructure them to be Prop-records parameterised on type
< 1293159687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but IIRC that didn't work last time I tried
< 1293159700 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this really sucks,  F(f o g) doesn't evaluate to Ff ' Fg, should have known that
< 1293159705 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ff o Fg
< 1293159730 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are equal, but F(f o g) evaluates to Ff o (Fg o Fidentity) -- because of the way the category is made
< 1293159761 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if I make composition syntactic in the symbolic category then I don't get the proofs for free.. damned either way
< 1293159805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Record pseudo_ring := {
< 1293159805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  pr_ag :> abelian_group;
< 1293159805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  pr_sg :> semigroup;
< 1293159805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  pr_left_dist :
< 1293159805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    forall a b c :
< 1293159808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean do you write pr_ag or pr_sg
< 1293159811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both give you problem
< 1293159812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s
< 1293159820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I could refer to the record itself somehow there, that might work
< 1293159835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: who needs proofs for free :)
< 1293159838 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me!
< 1293159869 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://coq.pastebin.com/DzVkdQbV <- broken
< 1293159885 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :starts at line 629
< 1293159899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i did your proof
< 1293159902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: just add one line
< 1293159903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admitted.
< 1293159905 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'll just use a syntactic compose, and write a decision theorem
< 1293159952 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will not admit defeat
< 1293160095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Record magma S := {
< 1293160095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  mg_S :> Set := S;
< 1293160095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  mg_op : mg_S -> mg_S -> mg_S
< 1293160095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}.
< 1293160095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implicit Arguments mg_op [S m].
< 1293160096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theorem magma_is_set : forall S (m : magma S), mg_S m = S.
< 1293160098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  intros; apply refl.
< 1293160100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qed.
< 1293160102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now THIS might work!!
< 1293160147 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that theorem about?
< 1293160206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: just checking coercion works :P
< 1293160222 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293160244 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the biggest problem for me is I don't want to use Set
< 1293160261 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need something like NxN/~ for some equivalence
< 1293160270 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought category theory would solve it :/
< 1293160278 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it does - I just don't see how yet
< 1293160382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: category theory solves EVERYTHING!!!!!!!
< 1293160400 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it bloody well better after all this hard work :p
< 1293160709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i got pseudorings!
< 1293160734 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool
< 1293160792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: got any nice theorems about pseudorings/rngs? :p
< 1293160796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna see if this actually works
< 1293160808 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know what it is LOL
< 1293160815 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something  weaker than ring
< 1293160829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudo-ring
< 1293160843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: abelian ring (R,+) and semigroup (R,*) where * and + distribute
< 1293160942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ring 	
< 1293160942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pseudoring with identity element 1 for • (monoid)
< 1293160945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1293160955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i just need it to be that my pseudo-ring's semigroup must be a monoid too
< 1293161012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Record ring S := {
< 1293161012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  rg_S :> pseudo_ring S;
< 1293161012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  rg_sg_is_monoid : monoid (pr_sg rg_S)
< 1293161012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}.
< 1293161012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what.
< 1293161014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was stupid easy.
< 1293161035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to try Z I guess
< 1293161069 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try to prove 0*x = 0 in ring
< 1293161091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: heh damn you, i have to figure out what 0 is in this case... the problem is that everyone says * at the lower levels
< 1293161094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it turns into + in higher structurse
< 1293161096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*structures
< 1293161099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everyone says 1 even when it's 0
< 1293161103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO CONFUZZLING
< 1293161210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  S : Set
< 1293161210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  R : ring S
< 1293161210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  a : R
< 1293161210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ============================
< 1293161210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   mn_1 * a = mn_1
< 1293161213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think this is a problem with my scheme
< 1293161220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every structure on the same set looks the same to coq
< 1293161304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ============================
< 1293161304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   monoid ?385
< 1293161305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hnnnnnnng
< 1293161317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: are you sure coq doesn't have a tactic for "let me specify this ?385 now"? :(
< 1293161323 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does
< 1293161327 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instantiate (1 := ...)
< 1293161343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: no, but like
< 1293161345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instantiate 1.
< 1293161348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it becomes the new goal
< 1293161386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: and pushes the current goal to the end
< 1293161450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: surely it must exist, i mean it'd be so useful
< 1293161471 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I don't think that exists
< 1293161476 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that would bereally useful though
< 1293161877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to write eval in c using exec to call out to gcc, dlopen and dlsym... tomorrow.
< 1293161877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suck it, Lisp weenies.
< 1293161878 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293161878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or just use libtcc, which looks like it can do it out of the box.
< 1293161886 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services
< 1293161902 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-38-203.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293161903 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293161940 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314
< 1293162491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how I can avoid just reinventing Nix.
< 1293162652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Fair enough response to the half-block question. Real question: How long did it take you to become proficient enough a coder to make Minecraft?
< 1293162653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did my first programming when I was eight. I'm 30 now.]]
< 1293162662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: Notch's programming skills decrease every passing day.
< 1293162665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also:
< 1293162667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Any chance of getting a female player model? Also, how about some optional skinnable clothing that can be used with your model?
< 1293162667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly, yes, but how do I make a cube based female model without being extremely silly and/or slightly objectifying?]]
< 1293162676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notch has no idea how to make a female model without giving it gigantic breasts.
< 1293163461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1293166256 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Xiph is working on a new audio codec...
< 1293166284 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/celt/download1/celt-0.10.0-32.flac This is what it sounds like at *32 kbps*.
< 1293166427 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1293166441 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to beleive
< 1293166464 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1293166470 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wanna write something on my blog
< 1293166488 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you have a blog (then there would be no point!!!)
< 1293166501 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION haþ no blog

< 1293166571 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ok, well you seem like an intelligent, fun-loving guy
< 1293166580 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u should """""guest post"""""
< 1293167069 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: r u interested?
< 1293167171 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps.
< 1293167331 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION once tried to sudo on his school's Linux system

< 1293167353 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mistook that console window for the console window for my system
< 1293167437 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: u should www.symbo1ics.com/blog
< 1293167720 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: did it get noticed?
< 1293167800 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, no idea
< 1293167806 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sent some mail to the sysadmin about it
< 1293167933 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: any relation to xkcd?
< 1293168003 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd is the reason that I thought of it just now
< 1293168056 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lc1hqgvA8F1qzymhso1_500.gif
< 1293168195 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pukes on Quadrescence 

< 1293168207 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP THAT SGEO
< 1293168232 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, you're the one who posted that disgusting link
< 1293168309 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://media.damnfunnypictures.com/photos/j0xqdn9-animal-tortoise-turtle-ucumari.jpg
< 1293168371 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer that to the comic
< 1293168906 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes back to reading llvm

< 1293169727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1293169832 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-234-47.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293171020 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.zreomusic.com/listen All that is synthed. It sounds *far* to good to be synthed...
< 1293171039 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293171040 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, aside from being unhumanly accurately played.
< 1293171097 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm always surprised by what *isn't* synthed
< 1293171243 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, there ought to be no real barriers to me deciding to make some music *right now*
< 1293171344 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except talent.
< 1293171347 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ducks

< 1293171381 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah, I'll agree that reading documentation is always a good idea
< 1293171408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: This is why only Gregor makes music here.
< 1293171422 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is not a man! He is walking, typing, hat-wearing talent!
< 1293171472 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and simultaneously!
< 1293171510 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even while chewing gum!
< 1293171516 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's Isle of Tune, but it's too limited: http://isleoftune.com/
< 1293171583 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As such is his talent!
< 1293171593 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is so talented that he is talent *with talent*!
< 1293171661 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but AFAICT, there's no single FLOSS "music making" program
< 1293172289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who needs a program?
< 1293172295 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All you need is talent!
< 1293172314 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With talent, you can just bit-bang out the FLAC you want!
< 1293172332 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: I in no way advocate actually bit-banging a FLAC to generate music. God no.)
< 1293172367 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bit-bang?
< 1293172377 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O... literally writing the bits?
< 1293172407 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, what would such a thing sound like?
< 1293172435 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously, I should do it
< 1293172503 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: tristan perich writes one-bit music: music played by an arduino without a dac (and therefore using nothing but square waves)
< 1293172629 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: then what are you advocating?
< 1293172727 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: this is FLOSS afaict: http://chuck.cs.princeton.edu/release/
< 1293172738 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you like live coding :P
< 1293172747 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: I don't know, but it should be PAINFUL
< 1293172803 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also once composed a piece in audacity
< 1293172806 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from scratch
< 1293172809 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was painful
< 1293172862 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: life is pain. so that's satisfied.
< 1293172879 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :word to the wise: never try to do anything involving more than a handful of tracks in audacity.  it will blow up and do really freaky things
< 1293172911 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Doesn't it anyways?
< 1293172943 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it didn't blow up until 20 tracks on my old fast memoriful computer
< 1293172954 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on this one it can't record a single track for more than five seconds...
< 1293173250 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293173631 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293173656 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293173771 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha ha! Now push the "EXPLODE" button and your television set will explode.
< 1293174073 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I used Audacity to record my karaoke!
< 1293174079 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pushes zzo38's EXPLODE button

< 1293174098 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: since pikhq is not interested in writing on my blog, do you wanna
< 1293174103 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Does it work?
< 1293174112 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293174115 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: What do you want written on it? It depends.
< 1293174115 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I have a scapegoat for my horrible singing!
< 1293174123 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://symbo1ics.com/blog/
< 1293174130 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff about stuff
< 1293174154 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write whatever you want as long as it's expository in nature (and ideally about math or compsci?!?!?!)
< 1293174221 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(enable js)
< 1293174242 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know a blog written entirely in haskell that uses no js
< 1293174269 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah damn cale
< 1293174270 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it contains several tech topics
< 1293174271 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: What do you want me to do, add comments?
< 1293174276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is now frightened.

< 1293174279 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no, i'd give you an account
< 1293174288 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFXII has an optional boss with 50 million HP.
< 1293174288 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and you could write a (some) posts about whatever if you wanted
< 1293174295 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can apparently take 12 hours.
< 1293174372 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: No, it is very slow. I prefer PhlogJournal (in which I can just create plain text files with the correct names and everything else goes by itself).
< 1293174390 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://faidio.visuallycreated.com:8002/blog/view.cgi?id=5 here's how you make a blog in haskell.  i don't know haskell so i don't know how creative  this is.
< 1293174438 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what
< 1293174469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/yiazmat3.jpg Each one of those dots is a full health bar.
< 1293174497 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: I mean this gopher://zzo38computer.cjb.net:70/1phlog*a it is much faster and simpler. No account or anything needed, just a directory in your computer.
< 1293174512 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 hours seems reasonable
< 1293174523 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you save your progress and come back to it?
< 1293174543 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, did you write PhlogJournal yourself?
< 1293174547 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION guesses yes

< 1293174550 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, I wrote it myself.
< 1293174560 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is obviously a future psychic

< 1293174562 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the point is that anyone can have an account and anyone can log in and everything is secure
< 1293174592 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: And here is the code for it:  gopher://zzo38computer.cjb.net:70/0phlog*f0  (you can use netcat to download it if you want to)
< 1293174618 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Then why don't you juse use ssh then?
< 1293174618 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grrrrr
< 1293174626 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why doesn't Chrome support gopher?
< 1293174633 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293174633 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Opera support gopher?
< 1293174645 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I want several people to have access, and since I type math, I want javascript to be enabled
< 1293174680 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Neither Chrome or Opera does. But you can use netcat:    echo 'phlog*f0' | nc -q -1 zzo38computer.cjb.net 80 > PhlogJournal.php
< 1293174703 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the worst way to view a blog :(
< 1293174723 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, that's downloading the source for the engine
< 1293174728 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay
< 1293174763 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's cool about phlog?
< 1293174818 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Well, look at the codes if you want to. It is very simple but does calendars, comment system, and more.
< 1293174838 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without slowing down your computer with JavaScript and images and stuff like that.
< 1293174896 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: WHAT ABOUT LATEX RENDERING WITH NATIVE FONTS
< 1293174925 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the only thing I really use JS for
< 1293174929 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm getting a 501 on your nc command up thhere? :/
< 1293174946 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Then just use LaTeX to make a printout.
< 1293174956 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Sorry, that is because I accidentally typed 8 instead of 7.
< 1293174957 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: that's lame.  images are okay.
< 1293174966 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Change the 8 to 7 (they are close to each other on the keyboard)
< 1293174969 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then it will work.
< 1293174974 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: no it's quite not lame
< 1293174989 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx
< 1293174991 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: images assume the user has some sized screen at some resolution
< 1293175021 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer Plain TeX to typeset the mathematics and then can publish the DVI file if we need to make a report about mathematical things.
< 1293175027 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Port 70/TCP? Gopher?
< 1293175036 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Yes.
< 1293175050 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the point of a blog is to blog, and one can use TeX to do stuff on it
< 1293175093 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Could you write a blog program in TeX?
< 1293175110 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1293175115 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one *could* I guess
< 1293175128 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: i think it's fair to use JS to detect screen size.  it's less lame than printing text in all kinds of crazy positions to simulate tex, imo.
< 1293175128 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean "a tex program on the blog"?
< 1293175151 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: what
< 1293175176 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there really should be a css way to do that though :/
< 1293175190 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :images are just a poor option when you can do native TeX typesetting and use Real Fonts
< 1293175198 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathml is bad, but jsmath is good
< 1293175206 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: No, I mean a blog program in TeX. Like, you might use ssh to send files and stuff, perhaps message send protocol or something for comments, and then HTTP/FTP/Gopher to download the DVI file.
< 1293175217 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jsmath is slow and hangs a lot.  it annoys me.
< 1293175228 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it needs to render
< 1293175233 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, lynx supports gopher...
< 1293175235 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Yes it is slow on my computer too.
< 1293175245 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree it's slow, but it's not TOO slow
< 1293175258 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather have nice looking output :)
< 1293175264 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: I think it is too slow.
< 1293175270 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree with zzo38
< 1293175273 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the hanging thing
< 1293175278 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for rendering TeX in real time?
< 1293175283 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's quite fast really.
< 1293175296 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about we just not render it in real time, eh?
< 1293175304 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: AFAIK, no need to point MX record to host itself, A/AAAA records are enough for mail delivery...
< 1293175318 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: because that defeats the whole purpose of it
< 1293175344 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why browsers are getting better and better JS engines
< 1293175345 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc
< 1293175367 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just need to petition the w3c to add tex rendering stuff to the html standards.
< 1293175368 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Are you refering to my domain name? If I don't enter the MX record, I think cjb.net services will handle it.
< 1293175379 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let the browser do it fast instead of in js slowly
< 1293175387 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i agree with that
< 1293175387 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but having it pre-rendered
< 1293175390 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"zzo38computer.cjb.net.  300     IN      MX      0 zzo38computer.cjb.net.".
< 1293175403 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: but right now it's the best we have. and mathml blows
< 1293175412 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1293175432 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: i didn't know.  i'll test it real quick to see what you mean
< 1293175441 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Yes, I did that so that CJB service will not process the mail.
< 1293175465 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: mathml doesn't blow that bad
< 1293175513 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does
< 1293175537 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a piece of shit, designed by a web committee, not mathematicians or typographers
< 1293175718 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... how does that cause it to be bad?
< 1293175746 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: CJB inserts their own MX record if you don't put one?
< 1293175751 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well if you've ever examined either the output or the markup, you'd understand Mathnerd314
< 1293175812 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so tex4ht renders the math stuff as a png apparently.  add to that a script to switch out which image to use depending on resolution i think you'd have something looking reasonable and running fast until we get a proper standard
< 1293175860 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I highly favor native fonts, because they scale with the text around it, have the correct baseline, and don't look like shit when printed
< 1293175872 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially with monochrome laser printers
< 1293175891 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Yes I think they do.
< 1293175899 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print?  who prints?
< 1293175901 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :treekiller
< 1293175904 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I print a ton
< 1293175918 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's my current To Read stack http://i.imgur.com/U2uzT.jpg
< 1293175934 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of which I printed
< 1293175997 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1293176002 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1293176009 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :googling your nick i find that you do a lot of math reading and tex stuff
< 1293176015 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1293176018 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can see where that might be an issue for you
< 1293176042 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Ah, that explains it. If querying MX records for foo. doesn't produce any results, MTAs assume implicit 'foo. 0 IN MX 0 foo.'.
< 1293176059 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: tex4ht is a great application, I don't deny that
< 1293176070 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just like the output I have I guess :S:S:S:S
< 1293176071 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also didn't realize quadrescence was a made up word...what is it supposed to mean?
< 1293176080 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk it's made up
< 1293176095 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but you get to make up a def too :P
< 1293176109 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quad represents four facets of my mind~
< 1293176147 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have one more facet than you.  i win.
< 1293176152 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night
< 1293176156 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time cube
< 1293176173 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EARTH HAS 4 CORNER
< 1293176173 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY
< 1293176173 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIME CUBE
< 1293176173 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN ONLY 24 HOUR ROTATION.
< 1293176173 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 CORNER DAYS,  CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH- No 1 Day God.
< 1293176175 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jsMath doesn't even support a lot of commands of TeX. And the ones it does support, is all incomplete.
< 1293176182 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what?
< 1293176184 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no...
< 1293176198 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It supports the math typesetting, and that's rather complete
< 1293176276 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and looks exquisite if you have STIX fonts installed (free)
< 1293176276 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I typed \^^47amma and it says "Unknown control sequence '\^'"
< 1293176289 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it can't make \def or \the\count255 or anything like that either
< 1293176293 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can
< 1293176301 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just in the config files
< 1293176304 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on demand? no
< 1293176318 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why you'd type \^^47 anyway
< 1293176322 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, \def works.
< 1293176334 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But \the is broken.
< 1293176344 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's for typesetting math
< 1293176348 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is it
< 1293176361 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to typeset TeX documents, use TeX
< 1293176379 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to typeset math using TeX on webpages, use jsmath
< 1293176391 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.12/20101026210630]
< 1293176721 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293176937 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\mathchar doesn't work.
< 1293177065 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what is a practical use case of \mathchar
< 1293177118 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\kern only partially works.
< 1293177156 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: You can look at the TeXbook for some examples.
< 1293177168 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what it is. I am asking for a practical use case for a website.
< 1293177183 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that LaTeX doesn't solve.
< 1293177277 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: SORRY, I AM TAKING OFFENSE TO YOUR INANE PROBLEMS WITH JSMATH!!!
< 1293177382 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think TeX works better. If you want to make a math report, you can use TeX.
< 1293177419 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the \hbox command in jsMath is completely broken.
< 1293177421 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, if you want to make a math report for publication, yes
< 1293177440 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to write a blog, absolutely not
< 1293177499 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I think TeX can be good for math blog. You should just need ssh.
< 1293177531 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gross
< 1293177599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1293177600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293177819 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The broken \hbox is probably the most serious mistake in jsMath, I think.
< 1293178376 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i'd agree
< 1293178963 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But regardless of how well jsMath works or doesn't work, it is still slow!!
< 1293179338 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :250 Your request for doing nothing has been completed successfully.
< 1293179845 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leg before wicket.
< 1293182005 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-13-169.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293185394 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293185396 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey
< 1293185406 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me and my friend made this in my own game -> http://64pixels.org/christmas.png
< 1293185647 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181130160.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293185990 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1293188155 0 :Anon899!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1293188403 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181130160.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1293193188 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1293193639 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.114.29.124 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1293195128 0 :BlSlereah!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Slereah
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< 1293198051 0 :yiyus_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
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< 1293203564 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293203760 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293204457 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293204612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcd.com/838/ This... is actually close to having potential.
< 1293204633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get rid of the girl in the middle panel and just make it him wondering and it would be decent.
< 1293204738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:51:24  http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/celt/download1/celt-0.10.0-32.flac This is what it sounds like at *32 kbps*.
< 1293204739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Whoa.
< 1293204775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: heh Tom's Diner cameo at the end
< 1293204804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:10:37  pikhq: u should www.symbo1ics.com/blog
< 1293204808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh jesus christ that is the worst blog ever
< 1293204819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't it on reddit recently
< 1293204830 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293204870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:14:03  seriously, there ought to be no real barriers to me deciding to make some music *right now*
< 1293204870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:15:44  except talent.
< 1293204870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:15:47 * oerjan ducks
< 1293204870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:16:21  well, yeah, I'll agree that reading documentation is always a good idea
< 1293204874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no response
< 1293204958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:41:19  word to the wise: never try to do anything involving more than a handful of tracks in audacity.  it will blow up and do really freaky things
< 1293204958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:41:51  quintopia: Doesn't it anyways?
< 1293204964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :audacity is possibly the worst software ... ever
< 1293205010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:03:41  (enable js)
< 1293205017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :desperately trying to figure out a justification for having a blog depend on js now.
< 1293205357 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293205454 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey elliott
< 1293205457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1293205474 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the proof on line 746 http://coq.pastebin.com/rkDjqYFH
< 1293205490 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then see 877 where it gets mapped to a different category
< 1293205592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1293205618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: nice
< 1293205628 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really exciting
< 1293205628 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293205640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: this is getting close to the point where i understand nothing though :)
< 1293205645 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this gives a general way to prove things automatically
< 1293205661 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293205696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:10:06  me and my friend made this in my own game -> http://64pixels.org/christmas.png
< 1293205698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiek2erka: what.
< 1293205853 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if I should start keep developing this or try and simplify it and clean it up
< 1293205877 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too bad I can't bootstrap it.. because it would be a lot easier to define category theory if i already had it
< 1293205892 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logical consistency prohibits it
< 1293205947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: not if you did everything coinductively! maybe :P
< 1293205963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I'd keep going, it's "clean enough"
< 1293206625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I am not sure how to prove that 0+x = x in a ring at all, with my model
< 1293206642 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0+x = x isn't an axiom?
< 1293206676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Error: Impossible to unify "mg_op b" with "mg_op b".]] wat
< 1293206684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: not that i can tell
< 1293206693 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293206695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1293206697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it is
< 1293206697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yes, it is
< 1293206700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I mean 0*x = 0
< 1293206702 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that is so stupid, Coq should check if the string representations are the same - and show implicit parameters if they are
< 1293206710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Error: Impossible to unify "mg_op b" with "mg_op b"." ;; lol ok so my system does work
< 1293206713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coq just prints it confusingly
< 1293206717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i already said that
< 1293206719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah OK
< 1293206725 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i think i wrote a proof of 0*x = 0 on this channel once
< 1293206854 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0*x = (0+0)*x = 0*x+0*x --> cancel --> 0*x  = 0
< 1293206875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  elliott: i think i wrote a proof of 0*x = 0 on this channel once
< 1293206880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your crowning achievement as a mathematician
< 1293206887 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :254)  elliott: i think i wrote a proof of 0*x = 0 on this channel once
< 1293206890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: that needs you to prove that a = a+a means a =0
< 1293206894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a = 0
< 1293206920 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x=a+x -> x-x=a+x-x -> 0=a
< 1293206945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theorem foo S (R : ring S) :
< 1293206945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  forall a, (pr_mul (p:=R) a (mn_1 (m:=pr_ag R))) = (mn_1 (m:=pr_ag R)).
< 1293206948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard enough just to formulate it!
< 1293206992 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus... why Coq / etc. are not good for proving theorems
< 1293207171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: thus why unjustified generalisation
< 1293207172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stfu
< 1293207175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  S : Set
< 1293207175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  R : ring S
< 1293207175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  a : R
< 1293207182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol i just realised i structured this in a way that I can't prove a:S
< 1293207190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH WELL time to soldier on
< 1293207270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is 0+a = a left identity or right?
< 1293207273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :similarly a+0 = a
< 1293207318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theorem bar S (R : ring S) :
< 1293207319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  forall a, (pr_add (p:=R) a mn_1) = a.
< 1293207319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  intros.
< 1293207319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  unfold pr_add.
< 1293207319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  apply mn_right_ident.
< 1293207319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qed.
< 1293207321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a start
< 1293207421 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293207901 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :left
< 1293208309 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1293208338 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293208477 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293208815 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1293209883 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1293209991 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: rewrite rules are superior
< 1293210007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: for... theorem proving?
< 1293210012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: you have no fucking clue what you're talking about
< 1293210024 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? why?
< 1293210042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: I am eagerly awaiting your proof of the four-colour theorem in a term rewriting language
< 1293210047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until then, no.
< 1293210111 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293211040 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: does writing Coq in a term rewriting language count?
< 1293211067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Anyone can Greenspun. The answer is no.
< 1293211090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good luck: (1) Finding out how on earth you use term rewriting evaluation to "prove" something, especially without a powerful type system; (2) Formulating the proof.
< 1293211107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(3) Formulating the proof _without Coq's large array of tactics_, no less.
< 1293211215 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293211312 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293211339 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, it's pretty simple. I define equality to be two constructs, "rewrite to" and "rewrite from", and then Coq proofs are term-rewriting proofs, and Coq's tactics are then term rewriting strategies
< 1293211566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: hahahaha
< 1293211571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: i take it you have no idea how coq actually works
< 1293211620 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe; my conception is probably inaccurate in the details
< 1293211629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: any progress btw?
< 1293211636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: more than the details, I'd say ...
< 1293211650 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tired :(
< 1293211693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: category theory solves all problems! including tiredness!
< 1293211898 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the big picture is that category theory just organises things and seperates concerns, you still need to construct things by hand (e.g. using inductive definitions, recursive functions, composites) - so I might try and rewrite the equation prover thing without the categorical frame so I can use it to prove the early lemmas
< 1293211939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be cool
< 1293211972 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now it just interprets everything as (typed) lists, with composition as append -- I think I could also add in things like fg = id
< 1293212030 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand its a lot of work and I don't know if it will survive being turned upside down like that
< 1293212126 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1293212154 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should just press on and define limits
< 1293212269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i'd do
< 1293212415 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293212494 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293212513 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293212536 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: here we are... Coq tactics *are* rewrite rules
< 1293212544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: wrong, they're programs
< 1293212555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact IIRC they can even not halt (j-invariant?)
< 1293212577 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rewrite rules are programs, and can be non-terminating
< 1293212622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Coq tactics *are* brainfuck programs
< 1293212629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck programs are programs, and can be non-terminating
< 1293212640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Coq tactics *are* rule 110 initial states
< 1293212640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc.
< 1293212673 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, they're rewrite rules. they take propositions and turn them into other propositions.
< 1293212683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err. not really.
< 1293212687 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck programs aren't that general
< 1293212701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, what?
< 1293212710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :send proposition on stdin, get new proposition on stdout.
< 1293212756 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1293212860 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, we seem to different definitions. I interpret rewrite rules as "most general thing ever invented". you seem to interpret them as "esoteric thing nobody uses"
< 1293212936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firstly, those two aren't definitions.
< 1293212939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :secondly, I like rewrite rules perfectly well.
< 1293212946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thirdly, as they aren't definitions, they prove nothing.
< 1293212974 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/definitions/assumptions/ then
< 1293212998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they also aren't interpretations.
< 1293213003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i have no idea whatsoever what you are trying to convey
< 1293213054 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Coq you have a situation like   x:T, y:B, z:B->T->W |- _ : W
< 1293213102 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tactics fill in the gap. e.g. you might do apply z. then you get  x:T, y:B, z:B->T->W |- z _ _ : W
< 1293213132 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: we have different assumptions, leading to differing opinions/interpretations. so I am wondering where we start to disagree.
< 1293213161 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you take contexts and programming problems you can view tactics as rewrite rules
< 1293213165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: what are our differing assumptions? how are they at all relevant to the situation at hand? what do you think the situation at hand is?
< 1293213205 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's useless to do so because we're not interested in the tactic language
< 1293213240 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just some tacky script language that helps you program faster, like typeclasses in haskell or macros in lisp
< 1293213241 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that makes sense.
< 1293213347 0 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.86.45 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293213348 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way you use it is more like (an advanced version of) prolog
< 1293213361 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it has pproof search and unification and such
< 1293213370 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a _very_ advanced version of prolog :P
< 1293213459 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I was too busy living in meta-meta-land to notice ;-)
< 1293213561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1293213731 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the scoop with rewrite systems anyway
< 1293213763 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't they just another universal computer?
< 1293213806 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but they're a "nice" universal computer, nicer IMO than lambdas
< 1293213836 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1293213906 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Deewiant: The server is back up, BTW. Don't think ineiros pinged you two yesterday.
< 1293213909 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Without hMod though.)
< 1293213934 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: they are pretty nice because you can implement most other things in terms of them ... and also pattern matching on constructors comes "built in", there's no special notion of a constructor
< 1293213955 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you write down a rewrite system: You don't know if it's confluent or not do you?
< 1293213960 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: as in, implement other things /nicely/ in terms of them
< 1293213977 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think confluence is overrated
< 1293213980 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any use of a non-confluent rewrite system?
< 1293213992 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, for computing
< 1293214014 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-deterministic computing?
< 1293214017 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no?
< 1293214022 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it nondeterministic?
< 1293214049 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: do you mean like, given "foo x = x; foo (bar x y) = quux x y", you don't know which rule to apply for "foo (bar a b)"?
< 1293214063 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: because, generally you have a rule for this -- e.g. "most specific match", so it'd be the second
< 1293214070 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :built into the language
< 1293214146 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but imposing that restriction makes the system confluent
< 1293214196 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: then yes, you do know whether it's confluent or not: it is!
< 1293214331 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: you may be interested in the Q language http://q-lang.sourceforge.net/ and its successor http://code.google.com/p/pure-lang/ (which, inexplicably, is very fast; faster than Python etc.)
< 1293214474 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, fast; i should say efficient
< 1293214513 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: also rewriting languages are pretty "extensible"
< 1293214523 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., you can easily add new cases to a function from "anywhere", codewis
< 1293214524 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e
< 1293214534 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: which means you don't need typeclasses
< 1293214542 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say you have a few constructors for your new numeric type
< 1293214544 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then all you have to do is
< 1293214551 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add (C1 ...) (C1 ...) = ...
< 1293214552 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add (C1 ...) (C2 ...) = ...
< 1293214553 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc.
< 1293214564 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if infix + is bound to add, then it all magically works
< 1293214638 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats useful
< 1293214803 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: but when doing term rewriting stuff i *do* miss lambdas a bit ... I think there could be a term rewriting language that somehow makes rules themselves first class, so you could pass around anonymous rules
< 1293214806 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i haven't seen that done yet
< 1293214842 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I don't think people use non-confluent systems by choice; it's just that they don't bother adding in the rules to make it confluent
< 1293214874 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some new(ish) pattern languages but  I haven't been able to find the books on them yet so dunno
< 1293214942 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: I just mean, you are able to write down non-confluent systems -- so how do we make use of that?
< 1293214945 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: that's the programming language I'm trying to write
< 1293214962 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: message passing and multiple dispatch are not pattern matching. sorry.
< 1293214994 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: the messages passed are rewrite rules
< 1293215001 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the difference? :D
< 1293215020 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: also term rewriting lets you do fun things like this
< 1293215022 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl (+) 0 [a,b,c,d,e,f,g];
< 1293215022 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0+a+b+c+d+e+f+g
< 1293215025 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p
< 1293215056 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats new ??
< 1293215143 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: well, it's just a silly example.
< 1293215148 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still pretty neat.
< 1293215154 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(foldl is defined the normal way)
< 1293215191 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if I made a rule
< 1293215199 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :random = 1 ; random = 2 ; random = 3
< 1293215202 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then random + random ?
< 1293215211 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> random=1;random=2;random=3;
< 1293215211 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> random;
< 1293215211 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :warning: rule never reduced: random = 2;
< 1293215211 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :warning: rule never reduced: random = 3;
< 1293215211 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1
< 1293215222 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: basically I'd say "random = 1; random = 2; random = 3" is an invalid program
< 1293215228 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you have ambiguous rules
< 1293215241 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must be very hard to recognize valid/invalid programs
< 1293215255 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: not really
< 1293215257 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well may be
< 1293215259 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*maybe
< 1293215264 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there an algorithm?
< 1293215269 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, but i don't know it
< 1293215276 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it depends on your rule for specificity
< 1293215280 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: it's easy not to write invalid programs though IME
< 1293215284 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would never write anything like that random thing
< 1293215288 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i mean, you know in haskell
< 1293215301 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many times do you write a haskell program with two "f (X ...) ... = ..." that are ambiguous?
< 1293215304 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never do
< 1293215414 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1293215902 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: in my language, that would make random a type. (particularly, the type containing only 1, 2, and 3)
< 1293216031 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, does that make any sense? types are more like predicates
< 1293216093 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my type predicates are all "reachable by running rewrite rules"
< 1293216105 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g.,
< 1293216105 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nat 0 = true
< 1293216105 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nat (S n) = nat n
< 1293216105 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nat _ = false
< 1293216145 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "nat = 0; nat = S n" would specify the type nat
< 1293216156 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then e.g.
< 1293216157 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: if nat n then nat (fact n) else true
< 1293216157 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fact 0 = S 0
< 1293216157 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fact (S n) = S n * fact n
< 1293216161 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: really?
< 1293216167 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: so "S S" is a nat?
< 1293216170 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely you mean "nat = S nat"
< 1293216184 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yeah. good point.
< 1293216217 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, if we say that "x:f" = "f x" and also have -> for boolean implication (i.e. true->Q = Q, false->Q = true), then
< 1293216220 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: n:nat -> (fact n):nat
< 1293216220 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fact 0 = S 0
< 1293216220 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fact (S n) = S n * fact n
< 1293216222 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be correct
< 1293216306 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just has fact nat = nat

< 1293216343 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't make any sense
< 1293216347 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fac nat = {1,2,6,24,...}
< 1293216349 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N! is not N
< 1293216358 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N being naturals
< 1293216363 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that i could understand.
< 1293216395 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   !1+i.11
< 1293216395 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 2 6 24 120 720 5040 40320 362880 3.6288e6 3.99168e7
< 1293216398 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: J has that :P
< 1293216445 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: curses, you're right. fact nat : nat
< 1293216457 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see. what does "a : b" mean?
< 1293216464 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it reduces down to a rewrite rule of some kind.
< 1293216588 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an upper bound; it says "the set of results of rewriting 'fact nat' will produce a subset of the natural numbers"
< 1293216615 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := is a lower bound
< 1293216749 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: i don't suppose you have an algorithm for typechecking this
< 1293216789 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a general algorithm; with that I could solve everything. but for specific cases I do
< 1293216881 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: can you explain to Mathnerd314 why a type system without a type checker is useless, I'm too lazy to
< 1293216896 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm imagining Coq going "You might have proved this! I can't tell!"
< 1293217001 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you can check bounds on types easily
< 1293217027 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: if you can't check types in general, it's not a type system
< 1293217046 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293217062 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, it's not a type system. it's a proof system.
< 1293217070 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ...
< 1293217083 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: a proof system that can't tell you whether your proof is valid or not?
< 1293217083 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful!
< 1293217116 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, it's the thing you prove proofs about. I don't know what you call that.
< 1293217148 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two things to consider
< 1293217151 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* What can you compute?
< 1293217154 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* What can you define?
< 1293217204 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a turing machine computes and defines recursive sets. ZFC computes nothing but defines a huge chunk of mathematics
< 1293217213 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much more than just recursive sets
< 1293217305 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sorry, it's the thing you prove proofs about. I don't know what you call that.
< 1293217307 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1293217315 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: zfc scares me
< 1293217348 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant:
< 1293217351 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1293217352 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mistype
< 1293217411 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1293217416 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I am going to write a parser generator
< 1293217426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no!
< 1293217433 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write a generator parser instead
< 1293217461 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, merry christmas
< 1293217491 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it's a system, with semantics. you can "run" the statements with =, producing results, and you can "infer" the statements with :, producing bounds
< 1293217600 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's the 24th you bum
< 1293217644 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: christmas starts officially 17:00 today in norway
< 1293217654 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: really? that's just weird.
< 1293217657 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you guys are stupid and smelly.
< 1293217659 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliott
< 1293217663 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: and you can prove things about running and inference.
< 1293217664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1293217664 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293217671 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's when they ring all the church bells
< 1293217672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: you can't prove anything if you don't have a type checker
< 1293217708 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? 2+2=4; there's no stinking type checker
< 1293217736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: what/
< 1293217738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*what?
< 1293217751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a proof system, yes? presumably one based on some kind of type theory.
< 1293217755 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i have this theory it may be a holdover from when days were considered to start at sunset (as the jews still do for sabbath etc.)
< 1293217755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore you need a type checker to check your proofs.
< 1293217762 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by your own admission you don't have a general typechecker
< 1293217767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah yeah, silly nord
< 1293217808 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads wikipedia more

< 1293217820 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's an "abstract machine"
< 1293217862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you just reading wikipedia, picking random vaguely-related words from there, and applying them?
< 1293217872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far I have not a single idea how your system works, what it's intended to do, or what components it has at all
< 1293217881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how you expect to be able to write and verify proofs.
< 1293217902 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, precisely.
< 1293217917 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1293217923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know yourself?
< 1293217926 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.
< 1293217932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: then why are you wasting my time?
< 1293217949 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: he imght just be too tired at this point
< 1293217961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: are you sure you're not generalising from a sample of 1? :D
< 1293217968 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from all the arguing LOL
< 1293217981 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I might be
< 1293218038 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you want an accurate answer?
< 1293218047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: sure?
< 1293218078 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION starts preparing his 100-page thesis

< 1293218123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: on why you're wasting my time?
< 1293218139 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. probably won't be 100 pages though.
< 1293218278 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1293218873 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://pastebin.com/SvDE6sZr
< 1293218917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"10. He has an inflated ego (from being good at math)" <-- I wonder what to call this, it's not a self-fulfilling prophecy ... hmm ...
< 1293218927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i demand 100 pages
< 1293219094 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION writes his college essays

< 1293219688 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott:  Vorpal, fizzie, elliott and others who might care: [...]
< 1293219720 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But right, Deewiant was left out.
< 1293219791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poor Deewiant.
< 1293220070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Tis rather lonely on there right now.
< 1293220188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Incidentally, I found your secret chest. It's empty.
< 1293220267 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's not.
< 1293220284 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do you mean the thing under my floorboards in the house?
< 1293220299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I mean the thing with the secret entrance to the left of your fire.
< 1293220307 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right.
< 1293220314 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not very secret.
< 1293220321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: To be fair, I am very dense.
< 1293220330 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott the black hole
< 1293220339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I'll bother taking out all your floorboards, though. :p
< 1293220345 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also another chest under the floor in front of that chest, but that's currently empty also.
< 1293220355 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I moved stuff elsewhere.
< 1293220375 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, back to socializing. -¥
< 1293220380 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What.
< 1293220384 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :->
< 1293220779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOD FUCKING DAMMIT
< 1293220782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTCH YOU BASTARD
< 1293220794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW COME DESTROYING MY CART WHILE I'M IN IT
< 1293220796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUFFOCATES ME
< 1293220801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WANT MY POSSESSIONS BACK NOTCH
< 1293221611 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293221719 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1293221930 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott go play my game
< 1293221933 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://64pixels.org
< 1293221933 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::FD
< 1293221934 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D*
< 1293221958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't run Java programs that aren't Minecraft.
< 1293221973 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::[
< 1293222079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Port it to Haskell. :p
< 1293222090 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do it
< 1293222122 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293222129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme the source then.
< 1293222151 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott i have not obfuscated the code
< 1293222154 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can easily decompile it
< 1293222154 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1293222158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decompiled code != source
< 1293222175 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is almost equal nowadays
< 1293222179 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both of them are ugly in my case
< 1293222226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't found a decent open-source java compiler
< 1293222278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*decompiler
< 1293222279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not compiler
< 1293222339 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott - http://64pixels.org/christmas.png
< 1293222342 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is something in my game
< 1293222344 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reconsider playing it
< 1293222345 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1293222354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiek2erka: i saw in the looks. i also said "what.".
< 1293222380 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1293222383 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's multiplayer!
< 1293222383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*logs
< 1293222384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not looks
< 1293222385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fff i can't spell
< 1293222407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if you explain wtf http://64pixels.org/christmas.png is
< 1293222424 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A very ASCII Christmas
< 1293222433 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 screenshots glued together
< 1293222436 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of this giant scene
< 1293222488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get the relevance of the bible quote ... well, except that christmas used to be vaguely related to christianity after they took it from the pagans, but that seems to be a rather tenuous link
< 1293222513 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhhhhhhhhhh
< 1293222516 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :christmas
< 1293222534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Christmas = the joys of rampant consumerism; your point?
< 1293222548 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not what it is supposed to be
< 1293222589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiek2erka: is it "supposed" to be anything? there's no evidence at all that jesus was born on the 25th, and in fact the historical record very clearly shows that it was picked to coincide with a pagan day
< 1293222601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember the last time i saw christmas associated with christianity in... any way at all really
< 1293222602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiek2erka: um, you do realize elliott is this channel's resident semi-militant atheist?
< 1293222612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm not a semi-militant atheist, and it's not about that
< 1293222621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't see how modern christmas is related to christianity in any way
< 1293222625 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293222661 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey i added the semi- just to avoid your protests :D
< 1293222674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't have been confused if the bible quote even /mentioned/ jesus at all :p
< 1293222706 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's what the angels said when Christ was born AFAIK
< 1293222710 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :said or sang
< 1293222717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiek2erka: I don't think that actually happened :-P
< 1293222723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, /r/atheism irritates me as much as anyone :P ... so at least I'm not a typical reddit atheist!
< 1293222726 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well christians believe it did
< 1293222738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiek2erka: I'm nitpicking at this point :P
< 1293222748 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can never be 100% sure
< 1293222756 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/at this point/always/
< 1293222777 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION geeses

< 1293222780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiek2erka: Indeed -- that's why I worship the tiny china teapot orbiting around the sun in an elliptical orbit between the Earth and Mars.
< 1293222782 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1293222786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I trust it will bring me salvation.
< 1293222797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(side note: that would be a way better fake religion than FSM)
< 1293222797 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293222813 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's your belief, go ahead
< 1293222817 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i agree with the side note
< 1293222817 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293222818 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOTALLY
< 1293222834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tomorrow I will celebrate The Day of the Revelation of the Teapot.
< 1293222849 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much believers does your religion have
< 1293222854 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are proud to have over a billion
< 1293222861 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293222865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You measure the accuracy of beliefs by how many people believe them?
< 1293222869 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1293222872 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293222879 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that so many people believe us. why
< 1293222882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, uh, me and Bertrand Russell, which is pretty damn good company if you ask me.
< 1293222899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiek2erka: Um, because Christians went crusading to convert all the evil nonbelievers quite a while back and it worked surprisingly well ...?
< 1293222912 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, I can't disagree with this argument
< 1293222913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to all the Buddhist missionaries going around.
< 1293222930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Solipsist missionaries are the best though.)
< 1293222942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("I'm just saying ... I don't really exist. Only you do. Think about it.")
< 1293222974 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1293222982 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Christians took Pagan holidays for their own use to stop paganism
< 1293223005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surprisingly effective.
< 1293223008 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes!
< 1293223015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you consider that a good thing?
< 1293223021 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1293223028 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not accept the fact we christians used force
< 1293223039 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lol spanish inquisition)
< 1293223042 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we've changed since then
< 1293223051 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't do spanish inquisitions anymore, do we
< 1293223069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiek2erka: Do you really think all of Christianity is united with a single opinion?
< 1293223085 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all
< 1293223090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're saying "we" like you're a group of 10 likeminded people, not a group of N billion people believing the same basic vague thing but with millions of differences beyond that.
< 1293223120 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1293223121 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't we
< 1293223128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1293223133 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also why are you arguing with a 13-year-old
< 1293223138 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the most nonsensical thing ever
< 1293223145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What.
< 1293223177 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed.  asiek2erka, go to your room!
< 1293223188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is asiek2erka /asking/ me to discount his opinions based on his age?
< 1293223209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, isn't asiek2erka polish?
< 1293223209 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a sure sign of immaturity if i ever saw one!
< 1293223226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i seem to recall christianity having a very strong grip on poland ... going by my source for all information about poland ... that's right ... nooga!
< 1293223250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very reliable if you ask me
< 1293223259 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall recently seeing some headline about polish church attendance taking a nosedive
< 1293223281 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott no
< 1293223293 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am telling you why the hell are you arguing with someone that should be less intelligent than you
< 1293223295 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like trolls
< 1293223300 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they take you down to their level
< 1293223306 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then beat you with their stupid argumentatino
< 1293223330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you're older than someone you're smarter than them?
< 1293223351 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiek2erka: um this is #esoteric.  here age is not the strongest indicator of intelligence by far.
< 1293223354 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually
< 1293223355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sure, but it's more the early years that matter I would expect fwiw
< 1293223360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make someone christian
< 1293223361 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you had more experience in life
< 1293223367 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is anywhere
< 1293223368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiek2erka: lol
< 1293223376 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott look
< 1293223380 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about we just go like this
< 1293223382 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you believe what you want
< 1293223384 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe what i want
< 1293223388 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and let's live in peaced
< 1293223389 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :peace*
< 1293223392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been minutes since i questioned anything you said.
< 1293223398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well apart from the age-intelligence correlation. which is just stupid.
< 1293223456 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's go back to what we started
< 1293223457 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :christmas
< 1293223481 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The word Christmas originated as a compound meaning "Christ's Mass"."
< 1293223535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://retire-well-life.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/santa-claus.jpg Pictured: Jesus.
< 1293223554 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, in Chronographai, a reference work published in 221, Sextus Julius Africanus suggested that Jesus was conceived on the spring equinox, popularizing the idea that Christ was born on December 25.
< 1293223561 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of your arguments is right
< 1293223567 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We do not know when Jesus was really born
< 1293223572 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was only a suggestion and everyone said "ok"
< 1293223599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are better estimates
< 1293223604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC it's something like July
< 1293223618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if the historical jesus actually exists, which is arguable, but anyway
< 1293223618 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he New Testament does not give a date for the birth of Jesus. <- that means any guesses cannot be 100% sure even for christians
< 1293223629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right ... because everything not in the new testament is false?
< 1293223636 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1293223645 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for christians the new testament is 100% true
< 1293223646 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while
< 1293223649 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest may not be 100% true
< 1293223653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for christians the new testament is 100% true
< 1293223657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, er, hate to break it to you, but that's not even remotely so.
< 1293223657 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no
< 1293223663 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do not get on apocryphas
< 1293223678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of a single person who follows even the new testament 100% to the letter.
< 1293223689 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1293223694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hello
< 1293223699 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is true but nobody reads it because nobody cares!
< 1293223703 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott:  Vorpal, fizzie, elliott and others who might care: [...] <-- he is included in others
< 1293223712 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most Christians, at least in Poland, declare they are christians
< 1293223713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it didn't ping him, so. :p
< 1293223714 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but do not do anything
< 1293223719 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, happy xmas everyone
< 1293223721 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just declare and... maybe pray every evening
< 1293223727 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do not give a **** about anything else
< 1293223734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a Muslim! I demonstrate my Musliminity by doing nothing.
< 1293223739 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In Sweden we celebrate the 24th.)
< 1293223752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, yet more evidence that you're uncivilised backwater vikings.
< 1293223775 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, rather, the reverse
< 1293223788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool; I'm a viking.
< 1293223830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the other reverse
< 1293223834 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(everyone else is backwards)
< 1293223846 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but yes you probably are a viking as well
< 1293223857 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a backwards one maybe
< 1293223869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone get on Minecraft, it is terribly quiet today.
< 1293223872 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you mean he's a gnikiv!? [/lamejoke]
< 1293223878 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiek2erka, XD
< 1293223885 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293223888 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nah, I'm going to dig into this ioctl
< 1293223899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And mine it for ore?
< 1293223905 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ... what?
< 1293223910 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1293223928 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, been porting the pc-speaker tune playing code from freebsd to linux. As an user space app in this case.
< 1293223932 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost done
< 1293223939 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you going to craft a pc speaker from an ioctl and the user space
< 1293223952 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have a problem however. beep(1) is GPL. Not GPL2. GPL.
< 1293223961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So?
< 1293223969 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and there are some magic constants I need from there
< 1293223980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Those aren't copyrightable.
< 1293223982 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because I haven't been able to find docs on the IOCTL
< 1293223986 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ioctl*
< 1293224001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Small magic numbers aren't copyrightable; even if they are, another program's copy of them isn't.
< 1293224008 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is rather large. Over 9000
< 1293224014 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(over 90000 even!)
< 1293224030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Srsly -- not copyrightable. If the author of beep didn't invent those constants, there is no justification for saying its license applies.
< 1293224046 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is something like jiffies per timer interrupt of original IBM XT timer
< 1293224055 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't have the computer with the code on turned on atm
< 1293224057 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just got home)
< 1293224057 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293224086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What Painterly glass texture do you use? :p
< 1293224098 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the same as I told you about before
< 1293224103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget. >_>
< 1293224143 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't you hate it when someone says "same place as usual" when you ask where something is? I certainly do)
< 1293224177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TO MOUNT HOOVER!
< 1293224184 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it has a thin white border, it has some glints in opposite corners
< 1293224191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. The one I currently have then.
< 1293224194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the fact that it has two glints.
< 1293224245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I've died twice -- yesterday and today -- because of destroying the cart while I was in it pushing me into the block below and me suffocating.
< 1293224270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't happen when health was off; I did sink but I didn't suffocate and I could easily jump back up. I don't know whether to blame health or the beta update. Sigh.
< 1293224279 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, huh
< 1293224298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just happened again! Disconnected before I died though. Please, god, don't make me waste more of my diamond. Let me be back above.
< 1293224307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOPE I DIED LOL
< 1293224314 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, stop doing it then
< 1293224335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a habit; it's more efficient. It's Notch's bug, not mine. Now to run to the minecart station.
< 1293224336 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean, doing it again and again just to complain isn't likely to be very constructive since notch is not here
< 1293224358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I KEEP FORGETTING
< 1293224388 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can you forget that you dislike me?
< 1293224440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha -- my inventory duplicated.
< 1293224443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can't pick up any of it.
< 1293224448 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heh
< 1293224455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also there's a minecart on fire.
< 1293224460 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293224460 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c
< 1293224461 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1293224461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it's a booster on the *other* track.
< 1293224481 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, dw mentioned something about something similar up north some days ago
< 1293224481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wait!
< 1293224483 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before beta
< 1293224486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*My* cart overlapped the booster.
< 1293224489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, exactly on top of each other.
< 1293224494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My cart has somehow gone onto the other track, and caught fire.
< 1293224513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it is seemingly invincible. I can move though it and it won't move, and I can't destroy it.
< 1293224516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTCH QUALITY ENGINEERING
< 1293224543 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the option in the painterly customiser is: "I want windows with reflections in the corners."
< 1293224569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1293224610 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things can catch fire in MC?
< 1293224623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yes.
< 1293224624 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I can just dump the cookie it remembers things with I guess
< 1293224635 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Project: FUCK THE WORLD
< 1293224641 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@64.231.54.113 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293224654 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, http://sprunge.us/fYdb
< 1293224666 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do that, I want to see screenshots
< 1293224685 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, they don't burn for long mostly
< 1293224692 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a lot of stuff don't burn at all
< 1293224711 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I never seen minecarts burning at all. And since they are iron they shouldn't
< 1293224728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiek2erka: http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/1135238941_tVKGy-L.jpg
< 1293224729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION trolling

< 1293224742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, things could also pass through it. And it was invincible.
< 1293224818 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, probably a bug then
< 1293224823 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does it actually boost?
< 1293224828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: As I said, it wasn't a booster.
< 1293224832 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh
< 1293224834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It was just perfectly overlapped with the booster, which still moves.
< 1293224834 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, missed that
< 1293224841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how it teleported to where the booster is.
< 1293224842 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I bet it is a client bug then
< 1293224849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: This was after disconnecting and reconnecting.
< 1293224858 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what if you reconnect again?
< 1293224862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I did...
< 1293224866 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293224867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, everything caught fire when I fell under the track.
< 1293224874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So presumably it teleported from there ... to where the booster was ... on the other track.
< 1293224875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOMEHOW
< 1293224882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And became pass-through (like see-through except, you know).
< 1293224884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And invincible.
< 1293224885 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is there any lava under the track?
< 1293224901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. At least I recall burning, and I think there's obsidian there.
< 1293224931 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, idea: clear out a space tall enough to stand in below, then you won't suffocate I think, instead you /ought/ to fall through, and just get some fall damage
< 1293224940 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then be able to walk up given facilities for that
< 1293224941 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much can lava spread? Can it be pumped?
< 1293224960 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, which sort of lava?
< 1293224962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Or just wait for health to disappear again :P
< 1293224967 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, whichever
< 1293224975 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, well, define spread.
< 1293224987 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flow across the world
< 1293224993 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consuming everything
< 1293225001 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, 4 tiles on flat ground iirc
< 1293225009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I mean, even a racist clock is right twice a day."
< 1293225010 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, it can flow over an edge and get another 4
< 1293225019 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what
< 1293225027 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in fact, what is a racist clock
< 1293225035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: --Gabe, Penny Arcade
< 1293225059 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293225084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are porkchops good for two uses, or is that just SMP bugs duplicating it?
< 1293225105 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as far as I know they 1) don't stack 2) go away in one use
< 1293225105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bugs, it seems.
< 1293225115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It goes away, then it reappears. Picking something up replaces it in its slot.
< 1293225123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think if you right click while the dupe is there it works.
< 1293225123 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so infinite pork?
< 1293225127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No.
< 1293225129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It disappears the second time.
< 1293225133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of logic.
< 1293225139 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, .... does it heal the second time?
< 1293225144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so.
< 1293225150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I dunno; my health bar is full.
< 1293225150 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes no sense
< 1293225155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't very reliable on the survival server.
< 1293225161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I don't really know.
< 1293225168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feel free to jump off a cliff and test it :P
< 1293225183 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293225189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STUCK ON A FENCE
< 1293225196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Hoover farm is terribly positioned.
< 1293225201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to jump almost over it to get to the mines the way I do.
< 1293225202 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ... how?
< 1293225209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Jumpin' onto it
< 1293225212 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh. why not walk around it a bit
< 1293225217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was above it.
< 1293225220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I jumped, and miscalculated.
< 1293225224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slam, fence. Boing boing boing.
< 1293225225 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you don't want to jump onto the farmland anyway
< 1293225228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Boingy boingy boingy.
< 1293225266 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh did you take the long stairs. Don't they go just past?
< 1293225274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go past what?
< 1293225308 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, go past the point of the end of the farm, such that the farm is alongside the straight stairs
< 1293225371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1293225374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They emerge a little bit from the farm.
< 1293225377 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, thing I don't like with painterly: every pack icon has a creeper
< 1293225381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, I could go straight but I'd have to turn after that.
< 1293225387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Is there something wrong with that? :P
< 1293225402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhh, home sweet Hoover Heavy Industries Research Facility.
< 1293225409 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you don't see it often, but mmm... I don't like creepers
< 1293225491 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does mcmap work yet?
< 1293225497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. More or less.
< 1293225501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It crashes "sometimes".
< 1293225512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if phanty would object to me expanding the HHI research facility; it is rather small.
< 1293225575 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HHI?
< 1293225591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Hoover Heavy Industries.
< 1293225598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our services include many services. All our services are secret.
< 1293225607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you wish to make use of our services, contact us with money.
< 1293225763 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"After experimenting with the device for nearly two days, three Baptist Pastors were hospitalized with broken hips, two 14 year old girls were accidentally impregnated, and one 10-year old boy had his testicles permanently damaged."
< 1293225821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: BEST DEVICE EVER
< 1293225838 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is now a Microsoft fan.
< 1293225842 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut
< 1293225845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wat
< 1293225849 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.landoverbaptist.org/2010/december/luciferstoychest2010.html
< 1293225857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh man, I thought it was a real thing :(
< 1293225865 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh landoverbaptist
< 1293225922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Discerning Christian parents will immediately recognize the "Mindflex" as a crudely designed masturbation device. Simply put, it is cheap imitation of Scientology's, E-Meter - "E" meaning, "Eeeee!" or "OUCH!" as our team of specialists can attest to after squatting down on both devices for seven days."
< 1293225955 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: here's for you http://www.reddit.com/r/circlejerk/comments/eqw92/i_wish_atheist_redditors_a_very_merry_xmas/
< 1293225976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah, /r/circlejerk ... the more moderate version of the rest of reddit
< 1293225995 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is browsing r/all

< 1293226044 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess this is a sign of advanced addiction
< 1293226051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sec
< 1293226055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=55700&start=300
< 1293226065 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293226065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: leave the map one off but turn on better grass and light is what i'd recommend :P
< 1293226067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1293226070 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm
< 1293226073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=55700
< 1293226088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: bettergrass requires betterlight, so
< 1293226091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least for now
< 1293226094 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear computer: What the fucking fucking fuck?
< 1293226101 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, EINSUFFICIENTCOMPUTER
< 1293226107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: um i used it
< 1293226110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's fine
< 1293226115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: barely slows down at all
< 1293226124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the slowdown was from me also using far and fancy which my computer can't even remotely handle /anyway/
< 1293226129 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, besides I like the worse light. Useful when building something to match up an overhang
< 1293226133 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows, or something claiming to be such, I guess, told me it was low on memory
< 1293226141 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you can see exactly where you need to go based on the shadow :P
< 1293226149 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now the screen is blank
< 1293226192 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1, I never had that happen on linux (har har)
< 1293226195 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293226205 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if there's any malware that fakes that

< 1293226209 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it generally never told me first, and I blame nvidia when things went shit)
< 1293226224 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ibwasnt running much
< 1293226260 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1, yeah, and OOM should not cause that
< 1293226262 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293226264 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it never has for me
< 1293226283 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :§simoleon!
< 1293226311 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Encyclopædia
< 1293226336 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293226364 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nah, I don't want better light, it seems to make things look dark based on screenshots
< 1293226408 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, all I want is to make 2/3rd side grass work with painterly and biome grass
< 1293226424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it doesn't, i've used it
< 1293226432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy to uninstall, just rm -rf bin
< 1293226437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just give it a try :p
< 1293226475 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1293226577 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293226750 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I think you either have to choose no side-grass, inconsistent side-grass or just single-color all-grass.
< 1293226872 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there isn't no-side grass iirc, Even the default pack has some side grass
< 1293226883 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, does it work with the small setting on side grass?
< 1293226899 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1293226909 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293226909 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but it does for the default texture pack!
< 1293226931 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but the thing that loads from texture packs can't biomize sidecrass, I think. Or something like that, anyway.
< 1293226931 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn farkers can be idiots. I think about half of them aren't sure if Landover Baptist is parody
< 1293226938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Or you can have biome-compliant 1/1 grass.
< 1293226940 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fark.com/cgi/comments.pl?IDLink=5847704
< 1293226942 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is there any mode for that?
< 1293226945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Better Grass. :p
< 1293226957 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't want /complete/ side grass
< 1293226965 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I want the 2/3rd option in painterly
< 1293226965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Um, that's what Better Grass does.
< 1293226970 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes and I don't want that
< 1293226980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, tough, you can't have it.
< 1293227013 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, quite, but probably there is some other mod
< 1293227050 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll probably get officially fixed too at some point. Ot
< 1293227050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There isn't.
< 1293227059 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's there in the top-ten of getsatisfaction common-problems.
< 1293227072 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, true
< 1293227103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiek2erka: Your game won't even start.
< 1293227165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how goes SMP.
< 1293227173 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott yes it will
< 1293227178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiek2erka: No it won't, I just tried.
< 1293227182 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you using
< 1293227183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless there's a special key to start.
< 1293227189 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sun's JVM? OpenJDK?
< 1293227193 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JamVM? HotSpot?
< 1293227197 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IcedTea?
< 1293227216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenJDK, and no, I'm not changing; if it doesn't work, it's a problem in your code. And Sun's JVM *is* HotSpot, and IcedTea *is* OpenJDK (well, almost; slightly different VM is the only difference.)
< 1293227217 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also browser or download
< 1293227220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Browser.
< 1293227225 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott try download
< 1293227229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1293227234 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't tested it in openjdk yet
< 1293227241 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont even know where the **** you can get openjdk for windows
< 1293227264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Download and install the open-source JDK 6 for Ubuntu 8.04 (or later), Fedora 9 (or later), Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5, openSUSE 11.1, Debian GNU/Linux 5.0, or OpenSolaris. If you came here looking for JDK 6 product binaries for Solaris, Linux, or Windows, which are based largely on the same code, you can download them from java.sun.com."
< 1293227276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The code is basically identical.
< 1293227280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's your code's fault; fix it.
< 1293227292 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't if i can't see what's wrong
< 1293227293 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:(
< 1293227299 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does OpenJDK implement javax.imageio
< 1293227308 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and javax.swing
< 1293227308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenJDK implements everything.
< 1293227313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see the menu, I just can't select any of the options.
< 1293227317 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :click on the window
< 1293227318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using arrow keys, WASD, space, enter.
< 1293227318 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duhh
< 1293227321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did. Duhh.
< 1293227323 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1293227328 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arrows should work perfectly
< 1293227334 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :click on the select menu a few times
< 1293227335 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293227342 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does implement the ImageIO stuff, though there were some OpenJDK imageio bugs I had to work-around in one project.
< 1293227353 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something related to filters, I forget what exactly.
< 1293227368 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiek2erka, what is this game (note I only have openjdk and/or icedtea as well)
< 1293227374 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal it should work
< 1293227376 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://64pixels.org
< 1293227382 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an ASCII infinite open world game
< 1293227388 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with logic circuits
< 1293227391 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and multiplayer
< 1293227399 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiek2erka, wait, why do I get dejavu
< 1293227408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiek2erka: Add WASD keys.
< 1293227419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: BUT ZOMG, JEB VISITED!1129012012
< 1293227422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MOJANG FAMOUS
< 1293227425 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1293227430 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott i did
< 1293227436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they don't do anything.
< 1293227440 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C:\Documents and Settings\[username]\.64pixels\config.txt
< 1293227441 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiek2erka, also ascii?
< 1293227444 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add a line "wsad-mode=1"
< 1293227449 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiek2erka, I see graphics
< 1293227450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiek2erka: No. Make them work by default.
< 1293227453 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott no
< 1293227455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's DOS codepage.
< 1293227459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So what idiots think "ASCII" is.
< 1293227461 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not like WSAD
< 1293227470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiek2erka: They do nothing by default, so there is no reason not to have them work.
< 1293227470 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293227476 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiek2erka, do arrow keys work then
< 1293227484 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal yes
< 1293227523 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if it is a dos code page, it seems unlikely to work under linux?
< 1293227530 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott
< 1293227534 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the charset is a raw dump of the CGA ROM
< 1293227537 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's stored that way
< 1293227544 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore IBM should hate me by now
< 1293227548 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the CGA ROM is most likely copyrighted
< 1293227550 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://64pixels.org/scr5.png "64pixels 0.0.3.1, a random creation" <-- the hell
< 1293227558 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, doesn't that look familiar to you
< 1293227561 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION falls in love with the Landover Baptist Bible Quizes

< 1293227569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: One might consider it is intentional.
< 1293227577 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sure, but the title!
< 1293227577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not the player thing, anyway.
< 1293227583 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, true.
< 1293227592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this thing have any monsters?
< 1293227597 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1293227601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is intensely boring.
< 1293227607 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make a logic circuit
< 1293227613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do that without being a smiley face.
< 1293227619 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M90Hq4u3nQ
< 1293227622 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Font.getStringBounds was bugged in OpenJDK, and TextLayout.getBounds() returned Y=x in Sun's runtime, Y=-x in OpenJDK. And there was some unidentifiable problem in that doing AffineTransformOp.filter() didn't work, while drawImage() with the op did. I think all these have long since been fixed, though, this was two years ago.
< 1293227624 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiek2erka, are you a developer on this? (are there any other ones?)
< 1293227630 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiek2erka, and, how many people play it?
< 1293227633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, having right-clicking instantly erase anything is perhaps not such a good idea for vandalism prevention.
< 1293227637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: JEB PLAYED IT ONCE BEST GAME EVER
< 1293227644 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, GreaseMonkey helps me a bit
< 1293227647 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's been on indiegames.com
< 1293227650 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1293227651 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about 15-20 people played it so far
< 1293227654 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1293227658 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe more
< 1293227659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The idiot of the channel helps me occasionally!"
< 1293227681 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm putting that into the game's protocol
< 1293227682 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forever
< 1293227685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, is the space just randomly filled?
< 1293227691 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott yes
< 1293227693 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally
< 1293227697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so you've built like two things.
< 1293227720 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are more
< 1293227726 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but our server admin destroyed the forum database
< 1293227733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and that destroyed the world
< 1293227736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://64pixels.org/mods.html In what universe does this count as modding?
< 1293227742 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if you call GM the "idiot of the channel"... what do you call asiek2erka?
< 1293227744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG I CONFIGURED FIREFOX TODAY -- TOTALLY MODDED
< 1293227748 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiek2erka, and why the nick change
< 1293227749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 13.
< 1293227754 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also stop demotivating me
< 1293227756 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah
< 1293227759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's ok, he said I could discriminate based on age!)
< 1293227783 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, are you 14 or 15 now? I forgot
< 1293227791 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm 14 in 2 weeks
< 1293227792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 15. :p
< 1293227796 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah.
< 1293227808 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, still 13 emotionally sometimes.
< 1293227817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, and you're so mature.
< 1293227826 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did I claim that? I don't think I did.
< 1293227830 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think Vorpal is much nicer than you
< 1293227838 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm flattered
< 1293227842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm an asshole? Wow, I never realised.
< 1293227846 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, yes you are
< 1293227851 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no comments on that
< 1293227853 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you were the one who said it
< 1293227855 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1293227892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if asiek2erka actually knows what Inland Revenue is at all.

< 1293227940 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if elliott has to be so !@#$ing picky

< 1293227948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1293227962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I took the topmost flowers and nothing happened.
< 1293227969 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott oh no
< 1293227971 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rebuild the heap now
< 1293227976 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also wait, you got the game to work? :P
< 1293227983 0 :asiek2erka!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :asie[afk]
< 1293227985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umm. No, I don't think I'm going to bother to figure out how to switch blocks./
< 1293227996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"DON'T LEAVE CLOCKS RUNNING THEY WASTE BANDWIDTH" -- how on earth.
< 1293228003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it make a network connection for every tick or something?
< 1293228019 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, local game or multiplayer?
< 1293228023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiplayer.
< 1293228029 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293228037 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, now to work on the pc speaker player coder
< 1293228038 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code*
< 1293228048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One wonders if it is not asie[afk] and GreaseMonkey merely not knowing what "bandwidth" means.
< 1293228099 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, perhaps.
< 1293228473 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293228542 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/*
< 1293228542 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Emit tone of frequency thz for given number of centisecs
< 1293228542 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : */
< 1293228542 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :static void tone(unsigned int thz, unsigned int centisecs)
< 1293228549 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, thz sounds so strange
< 1293228559 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make me think of THz
< 1293228601 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293228860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1293229265 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293229382 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293229595 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, the program runs okay under gdb but malfunctions when ran alone
< 1293229615 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293229638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gdb quality.
< 1293229667 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD
< 1293229673 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, valgrind reports nothing
< 1293229677 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That has happened to me before, but I figured out the problem and corrected it.
< 1293229679 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not really very "what".
< 1293229683 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it still malfunctions under valgrind
< 1293229695 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gdb does affect uninitialized memory contents and such.
< 1293229709 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but 1) valgrind reports nothing 2) it still malfunctions there
< 1293229712 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though valgrind often catches that sort of stuff, admittedly.
< 1293229713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i probably shouldn't wander around minecraft with nothing to do.
< 1293229725 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, my guess atm is that ptrace changes something about how the system call works
< 1293229728 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, maybe EINTR
< 1293229729 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such
< 1293229737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are there little blue pixels in my painterly trees
< 1293229742 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I /should/ handle, but who knows if that is buggy
< 1293229775 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293230184 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know I have played D&D game today?
< 1293230414 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I found it
< 1293230427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mrf, what's the keys to rearrange tabs in xchat again?
< 1293230430 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the bug was actually that I typoed argv[1] as argv[0]
< 1293230433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I accidentally moved #esoteric to the left of freenode.
< 1293230433 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b7b6c.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293230439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Just mv the program before executing it.
< 1293230444 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that plus a number of coincidences
< 1293230450 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, quite esoteric yeah
< 1293230465 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay it seems to work
< 1293230499 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the strings from http://svn.freebsd.org/viewvc/base/release/8.1.0/usr.sbin/spkrtest/spkrtest.sh?revision=210188&view=markup is now playable on a linux pc speaker!
< 1293230541 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sounds better on my thinkpad, where it is just a pure tone through the usual speakers
< 1293230556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Let's build a hi-fi USB PC speaker.
< 1293230561 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD
< 1293230565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can listen to it in all its glory on a laptop.
< 1293230569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A *real* one too -- as in the actual same mechanics.
< 1293230576 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well my desktop has that
< 1293230585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But is it hi-fi?
< 1293230590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Are all the components isolated?
< 1293230591 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I doubt it
< 1293230595 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, however this needs root to run.
< 1293230603 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes me nervous while debugging
< 1293230603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAME
< 1293230608 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, blame linux
< 1293230612 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I need to open /dev/console
< 1293230617 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and do some ioctls on it
< 1293230627 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this needs either running from a vt
< 1293230630 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or as root under X
< 1293230642 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so it won't need root if you run it from a vt
< 1293230659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh; how weird.
< 1293230685 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, I guess it is because /dev/console depends on the owner of the current console. And when you are in X then X owns that vt
< 1293230692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Why on earth does that thing write to a choices file?
< 1293230694 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and X runs as root
< 1293230699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't it just assign to a variable?
< 1293230704 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have no idea
< 1293230730 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, on freebsd it needs root too iirc, but only because the default permissions of /dev/speaker
< 1293230785 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293230786 0 :Wamanuz3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293230793 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm... also I'm not sure if I can get the exact timing of freebsd. After all, on freebsd this happens in kernel
< 1293230799 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well, there is no buffer
< 1293230812 0 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293230814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I could transfer the IΞ type system to a term rewriting system.
< 1293230865 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw I made the backend code very easy to replace for different systems. Should be just two functions to rewrite (plus maybe some POSIX-isms) to port it to windows. If anyone wants to
< 1293230888 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(those functions: beep(freq, duration_in_ms), sleep(duration_in_ms)
< 1293230891 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1293230906 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293230947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Um, did you really call it sleep()?
< 1293230949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a C program?
< 1293230956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSIX hates you.
< 1293230959 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no
< 1293230965 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I call it hw_beep and hw_sleep
< 1293230971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1293230972 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and I don't call it "duration_in_ms" either
< 1293230983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Couldn't you just usleep(x*whatever_factor_i_forget)
< 1293230999 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, usleep: no such thing in POSIX-2008. Besides it isn't portable C.
< 1293231004 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unbelievable.. just made a bet with a friend that the incredible machine of elliott is online, keepin the synapses of the rest well heated
< 1293231005 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I use nanosleep
< 1293231014 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, since that is what replaced usleep
< 1293231016 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :merry xmas folks ;)
< 1293231020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: wat./
< 1293231029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm always online
< 1293231030 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, usleep was made obsolete in POSIX 2001 and removed in 2008
< 1293231032 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd, same!
< 1293231035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i live on the internet
< 1293231042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no you're destroying all the synapses
< 1293231048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUN FACT i have no physical form
< 1293231052 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :np.. it's good to have you here
< 1293231053 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: no you're destroying all the synapses
< 1293231053 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1293231066 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe you misread:  merry xmas folks ;)  hagb4rd, same!
< 1293231072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually can't leave, watch:
< 1293231072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1293231072 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293231074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMN
< 1293231080 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cycled
< 1293231095 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I can't leave however (channel is sticky in bouncer, it will filter /part)
< 1293231095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is my punishment, to stay in here for eternity. Well, specifically, to stay in here for eternity with Vorpal.
< 1293231138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is anybody going to MC today? :p
< 1293231142 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION giggles

< 1293231147 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I was on for a bit, but pc speaker is funnier!
< 1293231175 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played D&D game today. Do you think I won?
< 1293231190 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I should upload this code, but I don't know the license. Seeing as I pretty much had to reverse engineer beep(1) to figure out how to do it on linux (really, the docs for how you interface with kernel drivers on linux *sucks*)
< 1293231224 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and beep(1) is, as far as I can tell, GPL. The date is 1994 and the GPL is /not/ versioned. Nor is there "any future version" clause. This means in fact GPL1
< 1293231227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: just GPL v1 it?
< 1293231240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, GPL v1 is BSD-compatible
< 1293231243 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah but I have no clue what GPL v1 actually is.
< 1293231245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you stole BSD cdoe that's ok
< 1293231251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-1.0.html
< 1293231253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                    GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE
< 1293231254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                     Version 1, February 1989
< 1293231258 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Win32 api has a Beep(DWORD dwFreq, DWORD dwDuration) in kernel32.dll that spoke directly to PC speaker; it was dropped in Vista/WinXP 64-bit (because MessageBeep did the whole beep-via-sound-card thing, unlike kernel32 Beep); and in Windows 7 they brought Beep() back but made it pass through to a sound card.
< 1293231261 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I clearly stated that this file was same as freebsd one with minimal changes
< 1293231263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: erm gpl v2 is from june 1991
< 1293231268 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293231271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it probably means gpl 2.
< 1293231279 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think it says if it says "GPL" with no version number, you can use any version you want to unless the copyright holder tells you otherwise.
< 1293231294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: for a program predating GPL v2, even?
< 1293231298 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if the license is included with the program, you would use that one.
< 1293231298 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, basically, why should I write the parser code for that convoluted string when I just need to replace some types and calls and rewrite two functions
< 1293231301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Just say "This program is licensed under the same license as the beep tool from [wherever]."
< 1293231309 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I do not believe in NIH)
< 1293231318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe in NIH!
< 1293231341 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think if it says "GPL" with no version specified, and the license text is not included anywhere with the program, you are permitted to use any version of the GPL. (I think I read somewhere that it works that way?)
< 1293231343 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh. Noodly Interspace Horror?
< 1293231351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1293231358 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, isn't that a codename for flying spaghetti monster?
< 1293231368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That's not true ... imagine before GPL version 2 came out. It wasn't called v1, it was just called the GPL.
< 1293231376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: So code licensed under "GPL" then is definitely version 1.
< 1293231388 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wait
< 1293231392 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Then, OK.
< 1293231392 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a COPYING
< 1293231395 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is GPL2
< 1293231403 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: OK then it is whatever version the COPYING file says.
< 1293231404 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1293231410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't consider reverse engineering to be virally, though.
< 1293231422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Copying non-trivial code, yes.
< 1293231429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figuring out how it works and reimplementing it... naw.
< 1293231439 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 1193180 btw
< 1293231445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 349783498
< 1293231451 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, won't work.
< 1293231458 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is not the right magic constant
< 1293231463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3459358
< 1293231468 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again won't work
< 1293231485 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anything but the one I gave and frequency will be off
< 1293231487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Plz make shipping go faster.
< 1293231493 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, of the tool?
< 1293231496 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293231497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1293231504 0 :Wamanuz4!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293231505 0 :Wamanuz3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1293231506 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what do you mean then
< 1293231512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OF MAH LAPTOP
< 1293231528 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, I don't have any inside connections at apple
< 1293231529 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't help
< 1293231549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know Steve Jobs' zombie brother.
< 1293231556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But he disowned him, so GUESS THAT WON'T HELP.
< 1293231558 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293231568 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if system is loaded it won't play correctly
< 1293231572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's been dispatched, so it's probably not Apple's problem any more :P
< 1293231574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What?
< 1293231575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1293231578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loaded in that sense.
< 1293231580 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no buffer
< 1293231583 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so...
< 1293231587 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe I should try to give it real time priority?
< 1293231596 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what function is used for that
< 1293231609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Just renice yourself.
< 1293231609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think.
< 1293231633 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right, I was thinking real time IO priority as well
< 1293231637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If you try and get realtime priority when using the Brain Fuck Scheduler and you're not root, you get isochronous priority (which X runs at); it's sort of like just-below-realtime.
< 1293231650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only it worked with non-root :P
< 1293231661 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right, but since almost everyone use X you will end up needing root /anyway/
< 1293231672 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides it won't /fail/ without real time priority.
< 1293231713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides wood-bricks aren't nice, recustomises painterly

< 1293231731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Have you seen that insane Painterly Christmas thing?
< 1293231735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stone becomes ice. :p
< 1293231740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sound effect dissonance!
< 1293231748 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes....
< 1293231755 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, remember that fizzie took screenshots?
< 1293231757 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were on iirc
< 1293231758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might try it. You know, just for Christmas.
< 1293231761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, I believe I didn't look.
< 1293231764 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293231844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish the Painterly chests/benches/furnaces/doors were less ornate.
< 1293231846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's weird.
< 1293231888 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're a bit overdone.
< 1293231895 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293231921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the ice doesn't tile very well at all.
< 1293231949 0 :Wamanuz4!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293231970 0 :Wamanuz4!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293232004 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293232127 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1293232286 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm now how to change IO priority
< 1293232338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno.
< 1293232379 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah found it
< 1293232381 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :love google
< 1293232402 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great, my man ioprio_set doesn't mention what headers
< 1293232423 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should report that as a bug
< 1293232428 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to where
< 1293232490 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Incidentally, since you're already running as root and worried about exact scheduling, why not sched_setscheduler a SCHED_FIFO >0 priority for your process? That way you'd get it to hang the whole machine when it goes wrong.
< 1293232505 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ... huh
< 1293232525 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, are you /sure/?
< 1293232541 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure about hanging or sure about that being a good idea?
< 1293232557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, brilliant.
< 1293232562 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       Glibc does not provide wrapper for these system calls; call them using syscall(2).
< 1293232567 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is why there is no header...
< 1293232569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1293232593 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, on the other hand, there is another issue: where the heck do I get the macros mentioned in the man page
< 1293232619 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I doubt it will help anyway
< 1293232629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: why do you need any macros?
< 1293232630 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems block device IO specific
< 1293232631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use syscall()
< 1293232637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: Incidentally, since you're already running as root and worried about exact scheduling, why not sched_setscheduler a SCHED_FIFO >0 priority for your process? That way you'd get it to hang the whole machine when it goes wrong.
< 1293232637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it
< 1293232640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since fizzie is infallible
< 1293232651 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because        int ioprio_set(int which, int who, int ioprio); and for the last argument you use macros to construct it
< 1293232653 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says the man pae
< 1293232655 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :page*
< 1293232672 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it doesn't document the raw values for it
< 1293232677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: cpp(1)
< 1293232680 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that it is a bitmask and you use these macros...
< 1293232683 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ...
< 1293232688 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway it won't help me
< 1293232706 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./include/linux/ioprio.h:       IOPRIO_WHO_PROCESS = 1,
< 1293232706 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./include/linux/ioprio.h:       IOPRIO_WHO_PGRP,
< 1293232706 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./include/linux/ioprio.h:       IOPRIO_WHO_USER,
< 1293232718 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Grepping *.[ch] inside the kernel.)
< 1293232727 0 :asie[afk]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott
< 1293232735 0 :asie[afk]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a clock emits 120 bytes a second per player
< 1293232739 0 :asie[afk]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what we mean by bandwidth
< 1293232759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :120p B/s, oh noes!!
< 1293232760 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes those I have no problem with
< 1293232765 0 :asie[afk]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1293232766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Max 255 players, no?
< 1293232768 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I meant IOPRIO_PRIO_VALUE
< 1293232777 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, IOPRIO_PRIO_CLASS and IOPRIO_PRIO_DATA too
< 1293232777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maximum 32 KiB/s.
< 1293232779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW HORRIBLE
< 1293232793 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ./include/linux/ioprio.h:#define IOPRIO_PRIO_VALUE(class, data) (((class) << IOPRIO_CLASS_SHIFT) | data)
< 1293232795 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same place?
< 1293232817 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, right
< 1293232830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway it won't really help me, since it seems to be block device specific
< 1293232833 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notably they're not in my /usr/include/linux, just in the kernel source tree's include/linux subdir.
< 1293232838 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all I do is ioctls on a char device
< 1293232853 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, great...
< 1293232870 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Setting the scheduler would help you in the "won't let other processes get in the way" sense, but I'm not really recommending that.
< 1293232892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just hang the system for the duration of the song. :p
< 1293232911 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, actually I don't dare use SCHED_FIFO, SCHED_RR looks more interesting
< 1293232941 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's any easier on the system.
< 1293232947 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well actually I won't, since I sleep, not busy wait
< 1293232952 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still will pre-empt everything with a lower static priority.
< 1293232955 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Since a nonblocking infinite loop in a process scheduled under SCHED_FIFO or SCHED_RR will block all processes with lower priority forever, a software developer should always keep available on the console a shell scheduled under a higher static priority than the tested application. This will allow an emergency kill of tested real-time applications that do not block or terminate as expected."
< 1293232960 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hrrm
< 1293232969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I lie my head on my pillow and busy-wait for eight hours.
< 1293232991 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, good night then (assuming that is how it should be read)
< 1293233001 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also, you are going to bed early?
< 1293233005 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293233053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal:  elliott, well actually I won't, since I sleep, not busy wait
< 1293233066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I lie" as in every night.
< 1293233068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who needs sleep.
< 1293233098 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293233103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm probably going to bed semi-early in the interest of seeing /some/ sort of light on Christmas, though. :p
< 1293233187 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Finland uses the proper 24th too right?
< 1293233262 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Well, for the gift-giving part and so on; the 25th is still Christmas too.
< 1293233269 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, to guarantee proper execution in the face of swap trashing I should probably memlock myself too ;P
< 1293233304 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of sleep-based wait-times (which of course ignore the time you spend thinking before you invoke sleep), you might run a fixed-interval timer with a resolution small enough that you can perform all your song-related actions at the times when that fires. (Disclaimer: I don't really know how the pc-speaker IO works, and whether that's a blocking sort of thing or not.)
< 1293233381 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it is just ioctls
< 1293233404 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway, it seems to work well with just a -20 nice and normal scheduler
< 1293233439 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and your suggestion would involve rather heavy rewriting, which I don't want
< 1293233455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The ucs2 and utf8 character sets do not support supplementary characters that lie outside the BMP." ~~MySQL
< 1293233467 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. Well, you could pre-build a list of actions that you do on each timer-tick, it should (theoretically speaking, anyway) be a bit more accurate than "do a thing, then sleep", which will add the "do a thing" time to all sleep values.
< 1293233473 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, including making the playstring thingy reentrant
< 1293233514 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, actually it will be less like the original (freebsd speaker kernel driver)
< 1293233518 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which also sleeps
< 1293233525 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and works the same way
< 1293233546 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh... what? ucs2: yeah okay, that makes sense.
< 1293233547 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it depends on whether you want to match that or to conform to some sort of an ideal.
< 1293233549 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but utf8?
< 1293233562 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well I want to match
< 1293233562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: MYSQL QUALITY
< 1293233617 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also TOS theme on pc speaker is awesome "l2b.f+.p16a.c+.p l4mne8a2mspg+e8c+f+8b2"
< 1293233662 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mlock/mlockall thing could be a thing to do, of course.
< 1293233698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know how to insert UTF-8 chars with a mysql query?
< 1293233706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. what escape sequences or functions or whatever
< 1293233734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, seems like it's CHAR()
< 1293233767 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've got my PC speaker connected. I wonder how accurate the emulations are.
< 1293233806 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dosbox has a 360-line PC speaker emulation code; it looks a bit simplistic compared to something like resid-fp. (Admittedly the PC speaker itself is rather simplistic compared to SID, too.)
< 1293233976 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1293234085 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293234098 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah found docs
< 1293234108 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no need for GPLv2 any more
< 1293234116 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will probably do *BSD then
< 1293234123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: WTFPL
< 1293234134 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not BSD compatible iirc
< 1293234149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes it is?
< 1293234182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If you mean "but I based it on BSD code", you can still license your parts as WTFPL. Admittedly that's silly. But no, WTFPL is 100% BSD-compatible.
< 1293234183 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293234201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :            DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT TO PUBLIC LICENSE
< 1293234202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR COPYING, DISTRIBUTION AND MODIFICATION
< 1293234202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  0. You just DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT TO.
< 1293234205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard to not be compatible with that.
< 1293234207 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is based on BSD yeah
< 1293234209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also FSF-certified Free!)
< 1293234224 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and the mix is absurd
< 1293234227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Right, then you can't remove the draconian BSD restrictions (such as requiring attribution).
< 1293234234 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, since the bulk of the code is the BSD code
< 1293234236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Hey, plenty of projects include BSD-licensed code but aren't BSD themselves, and the like. :p
< 1293234242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly generally not in the same file.
< 1293234252 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the code that is not is basically main() + some linux specific functions
< 1293234267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still feel kinda dirty planning to copyleft things.
< 1293234278 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually I split it in multiple files because I thought it would be larger than it turned out to be
< 1293234412 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do a pulseaudio output option if you've run out of code to write. :p
< 1293234436 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ... what? Can it drive the pc speaker?
< 1293234442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: --lag-more
< 1293234445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: or --high-latency
< 1293234461 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, pc speaker or nothing
< 1293234469 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I just mean an emulation.
< 1293234494 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, for non-x86?
< 1293234507 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, and for us "no speaker connected" folks. :p
< 1293234508 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also, shouldn't I use jackd then instead
< 1293234516 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well sucks to be you :P
< 1293234527 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, /If/ I write anything it will be jackd
< 1293234554 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it really matters, since you would just be producing a PCM audio signal; anything that can play that back would be just fine, timing-wise.
< 1293234563 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like the audio needs to be synchronized with anything.
< 1293234587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libao obviously
< 1293234595 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to be a PC speaker purist, conduct a case study of a hundred PC speakers, then try to get as close to the same sound as possible.
< 1293234597 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, actually I should procedurally generate a soundfont, load it into the sound card, and then play midi
< 1293234603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie, actually I should procedurally generate a soundfont, load it into the sound card, and then play midi
< 1293234604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MT-32.
< 1293234610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make a PC speaker soundfont for an MT-32.
< 1293234614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be GLORIOUS.
< 1293234618 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I would, except I don't have one to test with
< 1293234623 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I only have a sb live
< 1293234647 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't ALSA have some sort of a PC speaker generic-PCM output driver? You could then run your emulated audio out via that. (It would probably sound quite horrible.)
< 1293234662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can have mine (note: no, it cost me £200).
< 1293234667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or was it £60.
< 1293234668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the wto.
< 1293234673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*two.
< 1293234683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Awesome.
< 1293234687 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the least bit creepy how easy it is to find my dad and step-mom's names
< 1293234689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: How far could you recurse it, I wonder.
< 1293234689 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not at all
< 1293234695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Indeed, Seth Gold.
< 1293234699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy-to-find names are a sign of creepiness.
< 1293234703 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you have one!?
< 1293234705 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, awesome
< 1293234719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. Also a theremin.;
< 1293234721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/;$//
< 1293234731 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is it a professional one
< 1293234734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Hooking up the MT-32 to an iMac didn't really work so well, though; I got it working, sort of.
< 1293234741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The theremin? Yes, it's a Moog.
< 1293234743 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or one of those with a knob for one of the things
< 1293234745 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wow
< 1293234750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not their high-end model (that's *lots of money*), but yes.
< 1293234754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got it off eBay.
< 1293234763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's BLACK WOOD... which isn't really stylish, but there you go.
< 1293234763 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, practising much?
< 1293234771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, the theremin is nearly impossible to play.
< 1293234783 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I seen people play it well
< 1293234783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm willing to sell it :P
< 1293234788 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it just require practise
< 1293234792 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You could pull out that ALSA's bit that converts the PCM signal into PC speaker programming, then use the emulation to turn that into a PCM signal, and then just iterate until it converges. (Well, except that it might well not converge or converge to something really boring; but at least a large number of time.)
< 1293234795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It needs a surgeon's hands.
< 1293234804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's not really something you can practice at.
< 1293234829 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well I have a Roland FP-4 piano. Decent (but not state of the art)
< 1293234843 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I prefer to play that
< 1293234848 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where'd you get the MT-32?
< 1293234865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: eBay too.
< 1293234874 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what sort of connector do you use for it?
< 1293234875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You can't buy them new, and they don't really degrade, so. :p
< 1293234880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Audio. Analogue audio.
< 1293234885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, theremin?
< 1293234888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Audio. Analogue audio.
< 1293234889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But MT-32 too.
< 1293234892 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no the MT-32
< 1293234895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1293234897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a MIDI input and an audio out.
< 1293234903 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah
< 1293234903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fat jack-style things.
< 1293234915 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Some things in life money can't buy -- for everything else there is eBay. (Paraphrased from that MasterCard ad.)
< 1293234921 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is that the same as the normal circular one?
< 1293234929 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or is it some other one
< 1293234937 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for midi I mean
< 1293234941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS_connector
< 1293234943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the MIDI one.
< 1293234946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno, I'll check in a minute.
< 1293234948 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes
< 1293234949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have cables for it, FWIW.
< 1293234951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1293234954 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and how did you get that to work with a mac
< 1293234965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Via adapter, I think.
< 1293234970 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah
< 1293234971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1293234983 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a gameport<->midi cable
< 1293234988 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I can use with this sound card
< 1293234993 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would certainly guess the usual DIN-5 if it's "jack-style".
< 1293235013 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think he thought I asked about the audio
< 1293235022 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, midi over usb sucks
< 1293235038 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no opto-isolation
< 1293235068 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, as far as I know, less real time guarantees
< 1293235117 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I think is funny is those hybrid "3.5mm analog stereo / optical S/PDIF" connectors. It's just like a regular stereo plug except there's basically a LED deep inside there.
< 1293235160 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(What will they think of next!)
< 1293235174 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, to save on connectors?
< 1293235178 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what
< 1293235195 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you only need one hole in the laptop or whatever.
< 1293235195 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293235204 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think my sb live card has S/PDIF
< 1293235218 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hm
< 1293235222 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is probably all dusty
< 1293235225 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The USB stick I have has one of those. There's a little piece of plastic that converts it into the usual optical S/PDIF connector: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61JztQ1Y7eS._AA1500_.jpg
< 1293235227 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I never used that hole
< 1293235246 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't they tend to have some plastic covers in there?
< 1293235273 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there is S/PDIF listed in alsamixer, but I don't think I have any connector that isn't either 3.5 mm style or gameport
< 1293235276 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks

< 1293235290 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which hardware is this?
< 1293235339 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sb live 5.1
< 1293235346 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, PCI card
< 1293235358 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed, only the connector styles I mentioned
< 1293235360 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My motherboard-integrated Intel HD Audio thing does (coaxial) S/PDIF via a header on the motherboard; had to get the coax connector back-panel plate separately. I guess something similar could be done on some sound cards too.
< 1293235361 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293235385 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm pretty sure the card does /some/ digital output however
< 1293235399 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/Sound_Blaster_Live!_5.1.jpg -- there's something that says "SPDIF" up there.
< 1293235423 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure what the topmost orange connector is either, from this angle.
< 1293235449 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I could check the back...
< 1293235455 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like another stereo plug in another image.
< 1293235483 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, can't tell the symbol, it is under the case metal
< 1293235494 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ANALOG (center and subwoofer)/DIGITAL OUT (front and rear SPDIF digital outputs) via 4-pole 3.5 mm minijack on rear bracket" says a spec sheet.
< 1293235501 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's actually another hybrid thing.
< 1293235510 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1293235512 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but an electrical sort?
< 1293235520 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"4-pole" sounds like that, yes.
< 1293235532 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I only every used green and pink (and gameport)
< 1293235535 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever*
< 1293235693 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. fizzie you should write a midi->speaker string thingy
< 1293235703 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we can get the whole TOS on there
< 1293235754 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, with some strong-AI modules to understand the semantics and reconstruct the best possible rendition out of a polyphonic midi file.
< 1293235843 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, I don't demand that
< 1293235870 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the speaker string syntax. Is there a spec for that?
< 1293235878 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sec
< 1293235885 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=speaker&apropos=0&sektion=0&manpath=FreeBSD+8.1-RELEASE&format=html
< 1293235889 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, scroll down a bit
< 1293235901 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, until you see a two column bit
< 1293235918 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though some of the text before and after is relevant too)
< 1293235958 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It did look quite BASICy indeed.
< 1293236004 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah I think it is similar, with some minor changes
< 1293236027 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" The `octave-tracking' feature and the slur mark are new."
< 1293236097 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The MB, MF, and X primitives of PLAY are not useful in a timesharing environment and are omitted."
< 1293236101 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what those did
< 1293236145 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MF/MB are probably "play in foreground/play in background" switches.
< 1293236156 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and X?
< 1293236171 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And X defererences a pointer, basically. :p
< 1293236175 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/qbc.html#QEw4MDNl
< 1293236179 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh?
< 1293236203 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's followed by a string representation of a variable's address, and it goes and executes that.
< 1293236216 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could also consider it a subroutine call.
< 1293236221 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why...
< 1293236236 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need to construct long strings that way.
< 1293236245 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you could call PLAY several times?
< 1293236269 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but that way you can do a hierarchical string that includes other parts several times.
< 1293236274 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293236275 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1293236287 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well not strange they don't want that, since it was done in the kernel
< 1293236288 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: I don't really know what it's for. The example given is pretty contrived.
< 1293236302 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1293236359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, now I want to play monkey island on the pc speaker. I know I seen that on youtube somewhere (it is probably in ~/tmp or maybe /mnt/old-system/home/anmaster/tmp or such
< 1293236412 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah found the MT-32 version of it
< 1293236423 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is awesome too
< 1293236459 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no, that is a different version of monkey island
< 1293236475 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, awesome music
< 1293236616 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah found the mt-32 one of the same game
< 1293236627 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as I had the pc-speaker one of)
< 1293236746 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293236934 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a324ykKV-7Y has a bunch of versions of the monkey island tune for the interested
< 1293237047 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I was walking to a friend's graduation party thing, there was a dude at the local train station underpass playing the Monkey Island tune on a melodica.
< 1293237110 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually it turned out the "dude" (which we only noticed really briefly, as we were in a hurry to get that party) was a quasi-friend of ours, who was also at the same graduation event thing too.)
< 1293237143 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, we hadn't realized that and started to tell him an interesting story about someone playing the Monkey Island tune under the railway station while we passed by.)
< 1293237145 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the one I thought of was http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DLoSAb1-bc
< 1293237173 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, XD
< 1293237198 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you thought it was some beggar or such?
< 1293237208 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I think they like to be called "street musicians".
< 1293237213 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah.
< 1293237220 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sure, though the choice of song did make us wonder.
< 1293237231 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah, those poor comp sci students
< 1293237232 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "uh, it was actually I" realization was a bit awkwardly entertaining.
< 1293237373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The song's a perennial favourite of everybody. I think I've seen a recording of Press Play On Tape performing it somewhere too.
< 1293237388 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a324ykKV-7Y has a bunch of versions of the monkey island tune for the interested
< 1293237389 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293237401 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought MT-32 was a standalone box?
< 1293237409 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that card is FUCKING huge
< 1293237434 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The LAPC-I is an MT-32 compatible card
< 1293237437 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They put it on an ISA card too, I think.
< 1293237438 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1293237441 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is an ISA card.
< 1293237449 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't take a look.
< 1293237450 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it really that acceptable for a language to make no distinction between x(5) and x=5?
< 1293237461 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also... are they all from the same version of monkey island?
< 1293237476 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was made for MT32
< 1293237478 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-23*
< 1293237479 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah
< 1293237481 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-32*
< 1293237495 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it shouldn't sound better on more recent hardware
< 1293237500 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are from the same
< 1293237510 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, then how can it sound better than MT-32?
< 1293237511 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, as typical for games of the time, it has different versions for different cards.
< 1293237525 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes quite. But some of them were made /after/ monkey island iirc
< 1293237528 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6A0CsU3fh8
< 1293237543 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you noticed the last annotation, the final one played ("CD audio quality" or whatever it was called) is from a different version
< 1293237549 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the ones before that are from the same.
< 1293237555 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes quite
< 1293237561 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293237564 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, didn't noticed that
< 1293237615 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and adlib was quite decent (unlike gameblaster) though nowhere near MT-32 of course
< 1293237635 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First two versions sound curiously unlike.
< 1293237640 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah...
< 1293237660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ultrasound one is good, but I think the MT-32 is even better.
< 1293237660 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that there's a very good standard for the PC beeper, of course.
< 1293237673 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Card looks like a full-size ISA one.
< 1293237685 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a 256K add-on memory card of that size somewhere.
< 1293237694 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and SB16 sounded bad
< 1293237726 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, dude I believe in my computer case it would be inside the harddisk bay at that size!!
< 1293237818 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's supposed to be *that* much difference between Adlib's OPL2 FM synthesis and SB16's OPL3; the latter just adds features. (Of course many things that play on SB16 are actually sampled stuff, I guess.)
< 1293237830 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If that's in the video, I'm not that far yet.)
< 1293237846 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the MT-32 sounds better than the SB16
< 1293237849 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by far
< 1293237858 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, *that*'s not surprising.
< 1293237862 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, true
< 1293237873 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the SCC-1 is nice too
< 1293237894 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the ultrasound is really bad considering it comes after the MT-32
< 1293237919 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the SCC-1 is mainly crisper
< 1293237937 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I don't really think fits
< 1293237947 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have a GUS MAX somewhere; GUS is a rather PC-demoscene-famous thing. It's not a bad piece of hardware, compared to the similar-cost SB16.
< 1293237954 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has some on-board memory for wavetabley stuff.
< 1293237968 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tracker music players could do hardware-accelerated mixing on that.
< 1293237977 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, right, but I don't really care about anything that sounds /worse/ than an MT-32 :P
< 1293237991 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That just depends what you play with it.
< 1293238018 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anything designed to make use of MT-32's capabilities :P
< 1293238041 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(pc speaker is an exception)
< 1293238060 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure that's a fair benchmark.
< 1293238068 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293238077 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In unrelated news, the new Special Edition re-orchestrated re-played soundtrack doesn't sound half bad.
< 1293238079 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but the segment between pc speaker and MT-32 I find throughoutly boring)
< 1293238091 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh? link?
< 1293238103 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's that last thing in the video.
< 1293238126 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, didn't it have the issue of not doing the proper transition-and-blend thingy?
< 1293238132 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that monkey island 2 only?
< 1293238150 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"iMUSE" I think it was called
< 1293238207 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that sounds possible.
< 1293238216 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's recorded-on-real-instruments stuff.
< 1293238217 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, iirc elliott played it or something
< 1293238231 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, basically you got lots of CD seeking even
< 1293238279 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't actually played it. (Though I did try out that episodic what-was-it-called modern thing, which was I-guess-nice but nothing that much to, as they say, write home about.)
< 1293238291 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, though if recoreded in *perfect* sync (note: impossible with real instruments) you could mix the channels
< 1293238308 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what episodic thing?
< 1293238315 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tales of Monkey Island.
< 1293238319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Telltale Games' thing.
< 1293238344 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Free wovels! Get them while they're wovel!" (Heard from a wovel salesman in the game.)
< 1293238424 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also there were some chuckle-worthy jokes about "U Tubes".
< 1293238435 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ... there is no excuse for that pun which doesn't even really work
< 1293238449 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, misread it
< 1293238454 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as "free wolves"
< 1293238456 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow
< 1293238462 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, now it makes more sense XD
< 1293238488 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Telltale Games' thing. <-- never heard of that
< 1293238510 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293238564 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The company, or the game?
< 1293238581 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the phrase in the line I highlighted
< 1293238590 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I have no idea IF it is a company or a game
< 1293238611 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Telltale Games is the company, and Tales of Monkey Island is the game.
< 1293238617 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293238624 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well neither then
< 1293238669 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've done episodic-style modern adventure games into existing "franchises"; that Monkey Island game, and some Sam & Max stories, and I don't know what else.
< 1293238782 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm should I use the FreeBSD name in the BSD license
< 1293238784 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or my own
< 1293238789 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is based on freebsd code
< 1293238798 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean in the line "The views and conclusions contained in the software and documentation are those of the authors and should not be interpreted as representing official policies, either expressed or implied, of the FreeBSD Project."
< 1293238806 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I do not plan to re-license it under GPL)
< 1293238841 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any idea?
< 1293238923 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293238979 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, I'll settle for something like:
< 1293238981 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In part) Copyright (c) 2010 Arvid Norlander. All rights reserved.
< 1293238981 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In part) Copyright (c) 1992-2010 The FreeBSD Project. All rights reserved.
< 1293238999 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the "all rights reserved" amuse me)
< 1293239207 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fizzie: http://sporksirc.net/~anmaster/software/pcspeak.tar.xz
< 1293239215 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to play with the software
< 1293239330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The song's a perennial favourite of everybody. I think I've seen a recording of Press Play On Tape performing it somewhere too.
< 1293239342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've done an *awesome* version of it segued into LeChuck's theme.
< 1293239368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The LAPC-I is an MT-32 compatible card
< 1293239377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Proper compat or just one of those ones with its default soundfont?
< 1293239413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can confirm that the PC speaker and Tandy ones are the same game.
< 1293239432 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Roland LAPC-I contains an MT-32 compatible synthesizer
< 1293239449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you can't compare cards with the MT-32 based on one track, since the MT-32 is far more reprogrammable than any of the others.
< 1293239453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Vorpal> fizzie, didn't it have the issue of not doing the proper transition-and-blend thingy?
< 1293239466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the CD version of MI1, but it didn't even have iMUSE; it was just slightly less smooth.
< 1293239478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MI2 has never been CD-soundtracked and was the first to use iMUSE.
< 1293239483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Special Edition != CD rerelease.
< 1293239483 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what did you do to that line, it only highlighted /part/ of it
< 1293239489 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, it ended just after >
< 1293239496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Vorpal> fizzie, basically you got lots of CD seeking even
< 1293239503 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you did it again
< 1293239504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was MI2 even released on CD when it came out?
< 1293239507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie, though if recoreded in *perfect* sync (note: impossible with real instruments) you could mix the channels
< 1293239510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iMUSE didn't mix any channels.
< 1293239518 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no longer
< 1293239518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It waited until an appropriate transition point and jumped to the appropriate transition.
< 1293239521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were handmade.
< 1293239525 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right
< 1293239539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the Special Edition theme; the main lead isn't pronounced enough.
< 1293239545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Telltale Games guy on the esowiki, btw.
< 1293239561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: just xchat copying colour codes for some reason
< 1293239574 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but it only did it 2 out of 3 times
< 1293239578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Vorpal doesn't see annotations, re:  And if you noticed the last annotation, the final one played ("CD audio quality" or whatever it was called) is from a different version
< 1293239585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since he uses some youtube-dl thing, not flashl.
< 1293239588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*flash.
< 1293239596 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and the modes of this channel should filter colour codes
< 1293239599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think it's based on the precise moon-phase.
< 1293239605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, no, annoying colours are GREAT!
< 1293239606 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, aaah
< 1293239612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Aaaaah?
< 1293239620 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, (moon phase)
< 1293239627 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irssi shows "< elliott> HH fizzie, ..." with inverse-video Hs.
< 1293239634 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah
< 1293239658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Have you ever actually played the Monkey Island games?
< 1293239671 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i luv them
< 1293239675 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, it is on my todo list however
< 1293239691 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but I never really liked point and click
< 1293239698 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I prefer more free form in general
< 1293239714 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, open world I love (ev override is very open world)
< 1293239716 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for 5: where is the fuel for the chainsaw?
< 1293239744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 is great (but short; once you've beaten it once it only takes like 2-3 hours to do), 2 is probably the best adventure game ever written, and 3 (Curse of) is excellent too (although basically just ignore-retconned 2's ending and didn't involve Ron Gilbert; it is still good, however; note that it's 640x480x8. ScummVM can play it.) 4 (Escape from) is utter terrible keyboard-controlled 3D dreck and should be avoided at all costs.
< 1293239751 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there is the craziness of the puzzles too
< 1293239752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tales I haven't played yet.
< 1293239756 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer RPG in general
< 1293239765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Of course you use the rubber chicken with a pulley in the middle to cross over the chasm ...
< 1293239767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you, an idiot?
< 1293239779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: Actual spoiler.)
< 1293239788 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I heard about that example before
< 1293239793 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm not spoiled by you
< 1293239830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but yeah I don't really enjoy exploring the combinatorial explosion of all items in all places at all times
< 1293239836 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what it seems like pretty much
< 1293239840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not really.
< 1293239843 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you use spoilers
< 1293239846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just have to sense a pun when one comes along.
< 1293239857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The combine-X-with-Y approach only happens when you're really stuck.
< 1293239871 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so is " Vorpal: Of course you use the rubber chicken with a pulley in the middle to cross over the chasm ..."  from a pun?
< 1293239883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: To be fair, it comes with the pulley.
< 1293239889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's a line conveniently crossing the chasm.
< 1293239901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, okay, so that one isn't terribly intuitive, but it /is/ lampshaded in the actual game. :p
< 1293239906 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about the rubber chicken?
< 1293239917 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the pulley, sure
< 1293239920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It comes with the pulley.
< 1293239929 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which seems rather weird
< 1293239935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well.
< 1293239940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Voodoo Lady is weird.
< 1293239940 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never seen a rubber chicken with a pulley built in before
< 1293239956 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it...
< 1293239961 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never seen a rubber chicken
< 1293239964 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rubber ducks sure
< 1293239966 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not chicken
< 1293239981 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They serve different roles.
< 1293239994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://media.photobucket.com/image/rubber%20chicken%20with%20a%20pulley%20in%20the%20middle/ErDracu/Pollo.jpg
< 1293239996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT NOW
< 1293239998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCIENCE
< 1293240003 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one thing, rubber chickens are far more floppy and less bath-toyey.
< 1293240010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfect for crossing chasms.
< 1293240030 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not science. Just... technology
< 1293240037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It disproves science.
< 1293240043 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so how much load can it take?
< 1293240057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Approximately one (1) Guybrush Threepwood./
< 1293240059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\/$//
< 1293240072 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I meant the real-world one
< 1293240085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Approximately one (1) Guybrush Threepwood.
< 1293240094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Turns out they live in a world where everything is tiny.)
< 1293240109 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :har
< 1293240177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was Tales really released in 2009? jeez.
< 1293240217 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :painted with deluxe paint.. btw ;)
< 1293240227 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tales wasn't relatively speaking too far on the "horrible annoying puzzlery" scale, but it did have its share. (And personally I am most annoyed by those cases where I clearly know what to do, it has a reasonable probability of being the right thing, but I just can't seem to figure out how to communicate that to the game through the UI.)
< 1293240255 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brushguy
< 1293240285 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah that sucks
< 1293240286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1293240289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :named after guy.brush
< 1293240299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since deluxe paint used .brush
< 1293240310 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did
< 1293240357 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guybrush Threepwood, Mighty Pirate(TM).
< 1293240364 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the first apps using thi terminology, as far as i know
< 1293240369 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you still think I wasted your time?
< 1293240376 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why on earth is niceness value so backwards. In other words: why does *nix use an inverse of the more straight-forward concept "priority"?
< 1293240380 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanna buy a map? *g
< 1293240383 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ^
< 1293240384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Everyone always wastes my time!
< 1293240396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So they could use C's default initialisation to 0? :)
< 1293240404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so that would work with priority too I guess.
< 1293240410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I suspect positive nice values came much before negative.
< 1293240417 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293240424 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ok...
< 1293240425 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it's nicer.
< 1293240431 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so they started with lower-valued priority?
< 1293240445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, yes
< 1293240455 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you are trespassing on oerjan's territory!
< 1293240520 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so is that a yes?
< 1293240533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: it's file_not_found
< 1293240542 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think I might want to write 4'33" for the pc speaker
< 1293240611 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's called "mute button"
< 1293240616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's 273 seconds. So, if ...
< 1293240621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many Hz does one 386 cycle take?
< 1293240630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather.
< 1293240637 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually the time tempo to give it
< 1293240641 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-audible-frequency beeps were a common-ish way of doing sub-second resolution delays in some system.
< 1293240644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many one-cycle instructions can you fit into one second of 386 execution?
< 1293240645 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need to figure out*
< 1293240650 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got dropped from it
< 1293240650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At 12 MHz.
< 1293240665 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, presumablly 1/12 MHz?
< 1293240671 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is
< 1293240678 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/(12 MHz) btw
< 1293240694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Right. So 83 ns for one instruction.
< 1293240704 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, assuming it takes one cycle
< 1293240735 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, the tool doesn't work like that
< 1293240758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: OK, 2^23 nops on a 12 MHz 386.
< 1293240764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming a 1-cycle nop.
< 1293240772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's close to 4'33", except as a power of two.
< 1293240788 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ... but how does that help me?
< 1293240790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Man, even 386s are /fast/.)
< 1293240797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, you can do it without even touching the PC speaker!
< 1293240805 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but I don't have a 386
< 1293240812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way you can listen to 4'33" even if you don't have a PC speaker to listen to it with.
< 1293240830 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Early in production, Intel discovered a bug that could cause a system to unexpectedly halt when running 32-bit software. Not all of the processors already manufactured were affected, so Intel tested its inventory.
< 1293240836 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Processors that were found to be bug-free were marked with a double-sigma (ΣΣ), and affected processors were marked "16 BIT S/W ONLY". These latter processors were sold as good parts, since at the time 32 bit capability was not relevant for most users. Such chips are now extremely rare."
< 1293240844 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's so very nice.
< 1293240852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's where 3-core AMDs come from.
< 1293240859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4-core AMDs born with Down's syndrome.
< 1293240862 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, here is the easy version: "". Note: program exits right away and it continues playing in background
< 1293240876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But how will I know when to stop listening?
< 1293240901 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit like the "only connections to IP addresses inside Finland" cheaper-rate thing our ISP used to offer.
< 1293240907 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, use a wall clock
< 1293240920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_clock_time
< 1293240923 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so no google for example
< 1293240925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, but I need a process that runs for 4'33" to do that.
< 1293240930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Which my example gave.
< 1293240937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie, so no google for example ;; I doubt Google existed then
< 1293240941 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293240943 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1293240944 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It was around 1991, so no Google anyway.
< 1293240953 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, aaah THAT far back
< 1293240959 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Disclaimer: Year is purely guesswork.)
< 1293240966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1991, before the dinosaurs got wiped out.
< 1293240969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When Jesus roamed the Earth
< 1293240973 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh?
< 1293240982 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he was long lived then
< 1293240991 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of we have exponential year length
< 1293240999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://farm1.static.flickr.com/172/431306643_528c65a6b3.jpg
< 1293241015 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ...
< 1293241054 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliot: "Brushes can be cut from the background by using the box, freehand, or polygon selection tools. They can then be used in the same manner as any other brush or pen. This functionality is simpler to use than the "stamp" tool of Photoshop or Alpha Channels as provided in later programs. Brushes can also be rotated and scaled, even in 3D. After a brush is selected, it appears attached to the mouse cursor,
< 1293241054 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : providing an exact preview of what will be drawn. This allows precise pixel positioning of brushes, unlike brushes in Photoshop CS3 and lower, which only show an outline." --wikipedia, on the amiga version of deluxe paint (1985!) [appendix]
< 1293241065 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh found a quickcam in a box
< 1293241069 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it works with linux
< 1293241076 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(logitech quickcam express)
< 1293241085 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(one of those with a pyramid base)
< 1293241095 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's popular enough to probably do.
< 1293241102 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293241108 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i loved it *sigh
< 1293241116 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd, loved what?
< 1293241123 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, some googling suggests a out of kernel driver, which seems unmaintained
< 1293241130 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deluxe paint
< 1293241136 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd, never heard of it
< 1293241137 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quickcam-in-a-box, sounds like a trademark.
< 1293241167 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, you were a mac guy, weren't you? (I  ay misremember.)
< 1293241170 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This functionality is simpler to use than the "stamp" tool of Photoshop or Alpha Channels as provided in later programs."
< 1293241175 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd, I see an issue here
< 1293241198 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd, mostly in that it won't 1) do blending very well 2) follow where you drag the mouse
< 1293241202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ooh found a quickcam in a box
< 1293241203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I wonder if it works with linux
< 1293241203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (logitech quickcam express)
< 1293241203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (one of those with a pyramid base)
< 1293241207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAD ONE OF THOSE OMG.
< 1293241212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such shitty quality.
< 1293241216 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's usb
< 1293241218 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: a painting app, i remember from the amiga, with quite innovative, and impressing func.
< 1293241220 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes shitty quality
< 1293241233 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd, ah, so not for retouching photos then
< 1293241263 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ithttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deluxe_Paint#Functionality
< 1293241264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also, careful with what you say about Deluxe Paint.
< 1293241268 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sry
< 1293241268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ui28.gamespot.com/475/full20040105092056_2.gif <-- It produced things like this.
< 1293241279 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293241281 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deluxe_Paint vorpal
< 1293241286 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay, good for drawing
< 1293241321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the character's name derived from the file used to store his image data. Contrary to popular belief however, the original source sprite was not named "guy.brush" as the file extension used was ".bbm" and not ".brush". The file was in fact named "guybrush.bbm", the "brush" portion of the file name being included by the artist behind the character, Steve Purcell." <-- aww
< 1293241323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH WELL
< 1293241409 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aye :)
< 1293241440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.effectgames.com/demos/canvascycle/?sound=1 ;; these are beautiful btw, colour cycling
< 1293241444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(turn sound on)
< 1293241463 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: gspca (which is in mainline kernel nowadays) supports at least some hw revisions of quickcam express.
< 1293241477 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh nice
< 1293241484 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, will try that when I recompile kernel
< 1293241486 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is Pull?
< 1293241488 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(going to anyway)
< 1293241494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ?
< 1293241495 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what?
< 1293241511 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is being silly. Look at the image of the game

< 1293241515 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait
< 1293241521 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tries on ubuntu box*
< 1293241523 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293241530 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so... what program does one use then?
< 1293241552 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        /* QuickCam Express */
< 1293241552 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        {USB_DEVICE(0x046d, 0x0840), .driver_info = BRIDGE_STV600 },
< 1293241565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anything? Cheese is popular for photo/video-taking, I gathe.r
< 1293241567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gather.
< 1293241569 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can lsusb to see if it has those ids.
< 1293241582 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are there any games iwth graphics like that throughout?
< 1293241586 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just dmesg for v4l messages about finding a new device. :p
< 1293241593 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, fizzie nop, 0x0870
< 1293241594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: On the Amiga, I would expect so.
< 1293241601 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, same for the first id
< 1293241608 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to play them
< 1293241609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Perhaps none quite so beautiful,t hough; they look quite high-res.
< 1293241624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it could still be compatible. Or handled by something else.
< 1293241631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: btw do you know about IΞ?
< 1293241641 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm
< 1293241645 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no what is that
< 1293241657 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        /* Dexxa WebCam USB */
< 1293241658 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        {USB_DEVICE(0x046d, 0x0870), .driver_info = BRIDGE_STV602 },
< 1293241668 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's in the same list.
< 1293241679 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, aah
< 1293241684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: a really awesome dependently typed lambda calculus extension that does it in a totally different way to everything else
< 1293241690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: see these posts (I haven't found a better source):
< 1293241694 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Marketing names are of course always pretty random.
< 1293241699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lukepalmer.wordpress.com/2009/02/18/dependent-types-are-ridiculously-easy/
< 1293241702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lukepalmer.wordpress.com/2009/03/25/system-ig-semantics/
< 1293241708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lukepalmer.wordpress.com/2009/04/12/some-constructions-in-ixi/
< 1293241713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lukepalmer.wordpress.com/2009/04/29/dana-actual-progress/
< 1293241715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lukepalmer.wordpress.com/2009/06/06/recursive-types-in-ixi/
< 1293241721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wish someone other than luke talked about it though :P
< 1293241726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: oh you can ignore the system-ig-semantics one...
< 1293241731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ig not iXi
< 1293241746 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im really in love with this color cycling stuff :(
< 1293241764 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should make a game with these graphics
< 1293241775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really cool because the type system is sort of, to the side
< 1293241778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that would be awesome
< 1293241785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm nowhere near a good enough artist to though :P
< 1293241788 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the image quality: aieee
< 1293241821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: the problem is that palette cycling only works for some things
< 1293241824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't do all animation withi t
< 1293241831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*with it
< 1293241852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: and also the way some of these are done you'd have very little palette left ... that is, on "authentic" hardware
< 1293241868 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some el-cheapo webcam which for some reason worked a lot better in Windows than in Linux for non-daylight levels. I suspect some sort of amplifier AGC thing not being handled properly.
< 1293241893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: anyway you should read those posts about i\Xi, it's a really cool system
< 1293241908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the posts get better as you go down :p
< 1293241924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: it has things like a universal set ... but is still consistent-looking
< 1293241931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the universal set, I suppose
< 1293242063 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : im really in love with this color cycling stuff :( <--- what colour cycling?
< 1293242092 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah yes mine seems to have some issues in here too
< 1293242101 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.effectgames.com/demos/canvascycle/?sound=1
< 1293242103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the one i linked.
< 1293242107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: requires js, best with sound turned on
< 1293242160 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heh, cool
< 1293242164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But there's also a case to be made that we all *really really suck* at
< 1293242164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a game we joined under a horridly stupid misunderstanding of what it
< 1293242165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was all about, and that this is actually still the first era." -- teucer, talking at the end of B's supposed 7th (I think) era
< 1293242165 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but where does the cycling come into it
< 1293242173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's done entirely by changing the entries in a palette table
< 1293242177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual pixel values stay the same
< 1293242182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just mapped to different RGBs with the palette table
< 1293242190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is how you did it on actual hardware, very common)
< 1293242204 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they change it midway through or such?
< 1293242212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it changes every frame
< 1293242215 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293242216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what makes it look like it's animated
< 1293242220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they never touch the actual image
< 1293242226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the palette
< 1293242233 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1293242249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"
< 1293242249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pragmatism is Agora's way of ensuring stability. B's is emergencies -
< 1293242249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if things are breaking down, we have an emergency."
< 1293242256 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if doing it through the middle of a refresh you could get more colours maybe
< 1293242268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Possibly. That would be a bitch though. :p
< 1293242274 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293242287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As for the present situation with the 2E issue, I'm gonna do what we
< 1293242287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always do: enumerate the Woobleverses and try to recombine and/or
< 1293242287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :destroy as many as possible."
< 1293242291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gee, B, what do you wanna do tonight?
< 1293242306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same thing we do every night, players -- try to figure out a consistent gamestate!
< 1293242324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALTERNATIVELY
< 1293242331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same thing we do every night, players -- have an Emergency!
< 1293242411 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's good about that XI thing?
< 1293242412 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293242420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: it's just cool :P
< 1293242425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i think it's more elegant than regular type systems
< 1293242429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: since you don't need the concept of a type
< 1293242431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just have predicates
< 1293242437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort of "more integrated"
< 1293242511 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you watch youtube in the browser
< 1293242512 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1293242523 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if so, does sound and video sync properly for you?
< 1293242554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, and yes. It didn't use to because of no native x86-64 player, but it works now.
< 1293242567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm using the native x86-64 Flash.)
< 1293242573 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but I thought there wasn't a native one currently?
< 1293242592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there is, I don't think it's totally "final" though, but Debian's package uses it... at least on squeeze
< 1293242600 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1293242614 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I get perfect sync in mplayer btw
< 1293242622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, that's hardly surprising.
< 1293242626 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :P
< 1293242632 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and I have for the past years
< 1293242644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I didn't use Linux the past years.
< 1293242652 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1293242653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In OS X, btw, everything syncs up perfectly, but Flash likes to take 100% of the CPU.
< 1293242664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am, incidentally, not planning to run Flash on my new laptop. :p
< 1293242667 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does it under linux (take 100%?)
< 1293242673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No.
< 1293242678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adobe just really hate Steve Jobs.
< 1293242689 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I assume you will use linux on that air?
< 1293242711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm planning to dual-boot it. I can't throw away OS X because of EFI updates and, well, it is nice in some ways.
< 1293242728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm gonna stick Ubuntu on it. :p
< 1293242748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure how much Kitten will like such foreign hardware.
< 1293242751 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, without or with flash?
< 1293242763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows :p
< 1293242763 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh, couldn't you make kitten support it?
< 1293242778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, but even Ubuntu's support was flaky as of a year or two ago.
< 1293242781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For Macs.)
< 1293242784 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, elilo?
< 1293242790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nobody uses elilo :p
< 1293242790 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or grub2?
< 1293242796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRUB 2 wasn't stable then.
< 1293242810 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, people used elilo when grub2 didn't yet exist iirc
< 1293242937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The BIOS emulation is the most common thing to do, I think
< 1293242939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*think.
< 1293242942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since that's automatic.
< 1293242973 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, bootcamp?
< 1293242978 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what?
< 1293242998 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also iirc it works well with freebsd
< 1293243000 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(EFI that is)
< 1293243009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Boot Camp is just the marketing name for (1) an EFI update that added BIOS emulation, and (2) a tool that partitions your drive for you then reboots.
< 1293243015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) is the important thing here.
< 1293243045 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, so how does EFI know if you want BIOS emulation for a given partition?
< 1293243075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It ... doesn't; it just starts emulatin' that thar BIOS if it looks like the bootloader wants a BIOS. I'm not sure how it works. Maybe EFI has different boot sectors.
< 1293243124 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I presume you still have to deal with GUID partition tables?
< 1293243135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, "deal"; (GNU) fdisk supports them.
< 1293243139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or was it GNU?)
< 1293243143 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the kernel needs to support it
< 1293243156 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think parted handles it too btw
< 1293243163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I meant parted.
< 1293243182 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is parted gnu?
< 1293243233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so.
< 1293243236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1293243241 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but... it is good?
< 1293243251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I wouldn't go that far!
< 1293243261 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it actually is
< 1293243274 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, with gparted it is a bliss compared to fdisk
< 1293243283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like fdisk.
< 1293243288 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, it is tricky to edit partition type manually from gparted
< 1293243289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The commands are shorter. :p
< 1293243291 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that lacks
< 1293243297 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about from parted
< 1293243324 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I ended up having to use fdisk to touch up the partition types afterwards a few times
< 1293243399 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293243449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Vorpal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYZXNVHVfhc The excellent Press Play On Tape Monkey Island theme / LeChuck's theme thing.
< 1293243548 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, decent performance
< 1293243567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The LeChuck part is better IMO.
< 1293243575 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but not same as the intro melody iirc?
< 1293243576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, LeChuck's theme is /really/ catchy.
< 1293243580 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, some minor variations
< 1293243580 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293243583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Indeed not; it changes at 1 minutes something.
< 1293243601 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well even before that
< 1293243613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, all that's the actual theme.
< 1293243619 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm
< 1293243635 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I prefer monkey island 2 theme personally
< 1293243652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one I linked gets rather metal at the end. :p
< 1293243662 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah....
< 1293243668 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I doubt it does that in the game?
< 1293243675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No ... but it totally should.
< 1293243681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the game songs loop cleanly. :p
< 1293243692 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wouldn't it be anachronistic?
< 1293243738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Almost everything in MI2 is anachronistic. Observe: http://www.mrbillsadventureland.com/reviews/m-n/monkeyR/stans1.jpg
< 1293243744 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have to say I prefer the game theme song (even discarding the metal bit)
< 1293243747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also "Ask me about LOOM(tm).")
< 1293243783 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1293243786 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, LOOM?
< 1293243790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The game.
< 1293243800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a guy who gives you a sales pitch for it in the SCUMM Bar.
< 1293243813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(SCUMM would also count as an anachronism, except it can sort of pass as not being one.)
< 1293243959 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCUMM not being the VM?
< 1293244102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: SCUMM = Script Creation Utility for Maniac Mansion, the engine used for Maniac Mansion and then the Monkey Island games.
< 1293244106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along with every other LucasArts adventure game.
< 1293244117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ScummVM is just a program that runs SCUMM games... along with several other engines, but :P
< 1293244236 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Along with every other LucasArts adventure game. <-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GrimE
< 1293244264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, well, up to then.
< 1293244272 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, quite so
< 1293244272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: To be fair, only one good GrimE game was ever released.
< 1293244279 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh?
< 1293244284 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which one?
< 1293244285 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Grim Fandango; the only other was Escape from Monkey Island, which was beyond terrible.)
< 1293244306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grim Fandango is probably the #1 or #2 best adventure game ever, though -- and that's *despite* the keyboard-arrow-button controls.
< 1293244313 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then what came after GrimE?
< 1293244314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which are *terrible*, and yet it still comes out on top for being just that good.
< 1293244320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nothing; LucasArts stopped making adventure games.
< 1293244327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Telltale have their own thing, but that's years later.
< 1293244330 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293244345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LucasArts pretty much just do Star Wars games... well, until the two Special Edition rereleases of Monkey Island.
< 1293244421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, how do you move XChat tabs. Eurgh.
< 1293244428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't get #esoteric back in its rightful place.
< 1293244469 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, when I use xchat I use the tree list view
< 1293244473 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sorted by name
< 1293244499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, well, I'm using tabs.
< 1293244606 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293244697 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://coq.pastebin.com/sjjga8Uj
< 1293244739 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this looks like a nice way to bootstrap, just set up enough machinary so that you can automatically prove equations - then start developing the theory
< 1293244757 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293244775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#
< 1293244775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Section PublicService.
< 1293244780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: make this "Section Socialism."
< 1293244782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1293244785 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1293244790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that looks much nicer
< 1293244799 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be a lot more effective if it took equations like fg = id into account (rather than just solving associativity) HINT HINT elliott
< 1293244827 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im just saying that because I don't know how to implement it :/
< 1293244870 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION may switch to Pigdin from Digsby

< 1293244872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: you think *I* know? i'm an amateur :D
< 1293244873 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: look at line 314 though. I need to prove a complicated equation, so I name the symbolic category - ask it for the proof, then functor map it into MY category
< 1293244904 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes the proof so much easier
< 1293244910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it looks awesome
< 1293244914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should learn category theory properly
< 1293244919 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Features I need: To know when a particular person goes online
< 1293244929 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And more importantly right now, a log of when everyone goes on and offline
< 1293244936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Features I need: To know when a particular person goes online
< 1293244938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, Pidgin does that ...
< 1293244940 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit late for that now
< 1293244948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : And more importantly right now, a log of when everyone goes on and offline
< 1293244949 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this is whatt I am using mostly http://www.scss.tcd.ie/Edsko.de.Vries/ct/catsters/linear.php
< 1293244950 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I know. Reread what I wrote
< 1293244953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, it might do th-- why do you want that.
< 1293244959 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but programming it helps a LOT
< 1293244989 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My friend's gf is worried about him, he was supposed to meet up with her, asked when I last spoke with him
< 1293245010 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, do you mean on irc?
< 1293245017 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, MSN
< 1293245018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nobody uses IRC.
< 1293245020 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1293245035 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ... your statement is absurd given the medium of it's transmission
< 1293245052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You know what I mean, though.
< 1293245066 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no one non-tech savey
< 1293245077 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(% typos)
< 1293245086 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, some tech morons manage to get on sometimes
< 1293245121 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, rare though
< 1293245131 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in channels like this
< 1293245134 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ubuntu is another thing
< 1293245171 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right now I can automatically prove all equations of the form  f(g(1h)1)(i(j1)1)k = (f1g)((1(h1))(il))k  (for example) because they both get reduced to f(g(h(i(j(k1)))))
< 1293245199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that is really awesome ... can coq even do that normally?
< 1293245205 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but it would be useful to be able to add reductions like pq --> 1 so that it could prove stuff like  pp1qq = 1
< 1293245233 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well you can do it without category theory, but it's the "same thing" really
< 1293245242 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to program it of course
< 1293245257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: but it would be useful to be able to add reductions like pq --> 1 so that it could prove stuff like  pp1qq = 1
< 1293245264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you just like, add that as an equality theorem
< 1293245269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and eliminate for equality in the tactics?
< 1293245270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generalising
< 1293245319 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I do now: have to use tactics for each rewrite (that includes working your way into the middle of a deep expression you want to rewrite it), what I mean is the automatic equation prover should be able to take these sort of equations into account too
< 1293245342 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a proof like (fg)(hk) = f((gh)k) needs like 40 rewrites or something
< 1293245394 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1293245417 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(N.B. this is only difficult because "=" is an arbitrary equivalence relation, proving this stuff is really easy if it's actual equality)
< 1293245431 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did you reread my line?
< 1293245435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes
< 1293245446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: put a "do_common_elimination" thing at the start and end of every tactic
< 1293245450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's "automatic" most of the time
< 1293245470 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can't implement do_common_elimination! that's too difficult
< 1293245480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: well you can eliminate equality as a tactic, right>
< 1293245481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1293245484 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1293245485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make that do_common_elimination for now
< 1293245486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and expand it later
< 1293245487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*right?
< 1293245490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: oh. what can you do?
< 1293245493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :**can*
< 1293245592 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: see http://coq.pastebin.com/sjjga8Uj line 72. That says that if  f = f' then fg = f'g.. you have to apply it manually if you want to prove something like  (jh)k = 1k  given jk = 1
< 1293245599 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean jh = 1
< 1293245772 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293245846 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: which is a huge hassle... but now I can just state an equation in the symbolic category, which then gets proved automatically.. and I just map the equation back into my category!
< 1293245862 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293245956 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would guess the genenral theory of typed equations would be decidible though?
< 1293245979 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually no you can encode the word problem can't you...
< 1293245984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that is awesome
< 1293246000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: hmm can you do language syntax extensions in coq?
< 1293246003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, not as expressions
< 1293246008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but actually defining things like "Record x := y"
< 1293246021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: if not, write a preprocessor for using coq with categories :)
< 1293246024 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you need to hack into the ocaml stuff to do that
< 1293246028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like "Category blah ..."
< 1293246033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do a preprocessor, way easier than hacking ocaml
< 1293246044 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well it would be easier to just make a new programming language that checks with Coq to see that everything checks out
< 1293246058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: are you sure? this way you get tactics for free
< 1293246071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: a preprocessor just has to transform some half-assedly parsed text into Coq boilerplate :P
< 1293246074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for defining a category or whatever
< 1293246080 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh yeah thats true
< 1293246094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: you can even shout it CATEGORY to show that it's not going to be parsed decently :P
< 1293246151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: this is really cool though
< 1293246162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: hey is Lam a category? for lambda calculus
< 1293246163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hask is
< 1293246168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but LC doesn't really have types
< 1293246169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess not
< 1293246174 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah I feel like with this I might be able to speed up a bit
< 1293246179 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293246220 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night →
< 1293246361 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: one category I really want to get defined is one where objects are prolog terms and maps are substitutions
< 1293246361 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1293246398 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so e.g. {X|-->e(Y,k)} : f(X,g(X)) ---> f(e(Y,k),g(e(Y,k)))
< 1293246479 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293246492 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1293246495 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a book that shows how to implement unification on it
< 1293246544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that is awesome. do that :D
< 1293246603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: what about CHR?
< 1293246687 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that is jsut syntax stuff
< 1293246692 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no actual execution
< 1293246879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293246882 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293246885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know much about chr
< 1293246911 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~david/categories/programs/
< 1293246920 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stealing ths stuff once I get the scene set
< 1293246955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~david/categories/programs/x.cat huh what is this, category theory in ML?
< 1293246982 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293247159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: do the Hask category next :D
< 1293247215 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way lol
< 1293247219 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do it
< 1293247229 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know wha the Hask is
< 1293247247 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can define simple data types using initiality, though - that needs to be tested out
< 1293247271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Hask is the category of Haskell types
< 1293247276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :category-extras uses it :)
< 1293247431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: so to implement Hask you need to implement Haskell's type system... and I think probably most of the values too :P
< 1293247448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/category-extras/0.53.5/doc/html/Control-Category-Hask.html
< 1293247451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Make it clearer when we are dealing with the category (->) that we mean the category of haskell types via its Hom bifunctor (->)
< 1293247648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: any opinions on lambda Prolog?
< 1293247754 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean
< 1293247761 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use it
< 1293247835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: any interesting insights, i guess
< 1293247990 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293248093 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293248345 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm going off to tell children that Santa is coming to a town near them, but will only visit their house if they're asleep. Anything else I should tell them?
< 1293248393 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Punching trees gives me wood"
< 1293248440 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.levelupstudios.com/punching-trees-gives-me-wood
< 1293248526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: "I killed your parents."
< 1293248564 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *young, impressionable children*
< 1293248578 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REMEMBER ME
< 1293248604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: "I killed your parents... while they slept. If you sleep... well, who knows what could happen?"
< 1293248609 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell them that Santa only exists because people beleive in it, and that they should be very careful not to beleive in anything BAD incase it becomes real. And then make up a scary story about this happening in the past with a terrible monster
< 1293248620 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, I hate you.
< 1293248624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Of course... Santa only brings presents to those who sleep."
< 1293248630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: "So, you know... it's your decision..."
< 1293248681 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you realize that their parents are standing right next to them, and the call is probably on speakerphone?
< 1293248693 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: whuy
< 1293248709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: "The reason why your parents seem to be next to you is ... they're replaced with duplicates."
< 1293248714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: "And they want your lungs..."
< 1293248733 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think I can get this all in before they hang up
< 1293248743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: practice talking REALLY QUICKLY
< 1293248749 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, when I was a little kid, I read a book about the power of wishes. Being a kid, I believed it.
< 1293248763 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really wish I never read that book
< 1293248768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: note -- Sgeo is crazy
< 1293248768 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1293248813 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also, the people sitting next to *me* will overhear and pull we away from the phone
< 1293248822 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/we/me/
< 1293248833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: wrestle with bears to practice your self-defence skills
< 1293248852 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How long is this phone conversation that you can talk about it right now?
< 1293248857 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this is just getting more and more insane.
< 1293248863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: "Santa loves you... but he has a secret. If you swap around two letters in his name... it becomes Satan."
< 1293248867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: [whisper] "Behind you."
< 1293248888 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's Norad tracks Santa, and my shift is in an hour
< 1293248898 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's more like it
< 1293248904 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1293248931 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why propagate lying to little kids?
< 1293248939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl
< 1293248945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Santa is EVIL CHRISTIAN LIES
< 1293249006 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if there's been any studies on how being taught that Santa is real or not as a kid affects the kid

< 1293249046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't.
< 1293249103 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293249104 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you know from experience?
< 1293249153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: From what I know of Sgeo finding out Santa wasn't real traumatised him and caused him to dedicate his life to overcoming the evil lies of Santa or something, so I hardly find the topic worth discussing *shrug*
< 1293249190 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone seen the new Tron?
< 1293249191 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293249207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not I
< 1293249208 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh, no
< 1293249222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I may have exaggerated slightly.
< 1293249232 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I was raised Jewish
< 1293249279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Precisely.
< 1293249281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jewish Santa.
< 1293249644 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how did you get to be so insane?
< 1293249716 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the new TRON good?
< 1293249777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: ENDLESS AMOUNTS OF DRUGS*
< 1293249778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lies
< 1293249796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: The soundtrack is good (Daft Punk), dunno about the film :-P
< 1293249856 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :random google/twitter/reddit link: http://mimeti.ca/journal/?p=1481
< 1293249957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# Tagged Christianity, Gnu, Jeff Bridges as Richard Stallman, root access, Sun Microsystems, Tron: Legacy"
< 1293249959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol @ first tag
< 1293249964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to figure that out :D

< 1293250214 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293250265 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293250299 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, a post carefully designed to be so obscure that elliott can't understand it
< 1293250316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it's christianity because of sacrifice son i think
< 1293250318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I THINK
< 1293250318 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293250390 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Count the seconds it takes to stop thinking about this sentence. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1293250411 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1
< 1293250414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh :D
< 1293250423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :IT IS CHRISTMAS AND SO WE WILL NOT HAVE ANY CONFUSING TOPICS | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1293250428 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's Christianity because it is Christmas, I think.
< 1293250443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that has nothing to do with tron
< 1293250446 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :IT IS SECULAR CHRISTMAS AND SO WE WILL NOT HAVE ANY CONFUSING TOPICS | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1293250512 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "The sillier you are to the batsman, the closer you are." a confusing topic? (Probably it is because I switched a few words around)
< 1293250569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes :P
< 1293250584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google's right sidebar has baubles
< 1293250633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :IT IS PAGAN YULE AND SO WE WILL NOT HAVE ANY CONFUSING TOPICS | HAPPY TWO DAYS AFTER FESTIVUS | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1293250662 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "proper" way is "The closer you are to the batsman, the sillier you are." (but of course it is not completely proper either)
< 1293250667 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, now the new topic message is OK.
< 1293250680 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make Yule as well as Christmas, now!!
< 1293250681 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that cricket?
< 1293250687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so
< 1293250689 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: What do *you* think?
< 1293250703 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't see baubles
< 1293250711 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't decide because I find it odd that "sillier" is a cricket concept
< 1293250746 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: "Sillier" isn't really a cricket concept. But the fielders standing very close to the striking batsman are said to be in the "silly" position.
< 1293250768 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1293250784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1293250786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?q=christmas&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:unofficial&client=iceweasel-a
< 1293250789 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will try watching cricket next time it's on TV
< 1293250792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only for "christmas"
< 1293250799 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ifeel like I am mssing out
< 1293250806 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't think they say that the ones closer are "sillier", though.)
< 1293250831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: don't worry, IIRC zzo38 says he has never watched a game of cricket
< 1293250842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: so obviously you can reach this level of enjoyment without ever playing it or seeing it played
< 1293250862 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1293250869 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You are correct, I don't even know what channel it is on. (Or if it is on any channel in where I am, at all.)
< 1293250882 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you are a fan of cricket without having seen any games?
< 1293250882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: so watching it is completely superfluous!
< 1293250887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, isn't it great :D
< 1293250890 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like this idea
< 1293250903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'm going to be a fan of, uhh
< 1293250908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :american football
< 1293250913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna buy ALL the rulebooks
< 1293250920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mark the superbowl in my calender
< 1293250923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not gonna watch it though
< 1293250934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*calendar
< 1293250948 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I had time, and I know what channel, I might watch a Test match.
< 1293250963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what about when they go for the real thing?!
< 1293250976 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What real thing?
< 1293250984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the non-Test match!
< 1293250992 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Insane asylums: Where the sane go insane
< 1293250994 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1293250998 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That isn't what Test match means.
< 1293251006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah!
< 1293251018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Don't worry, your stay will be peaceful.
< 1293251045 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Test match means the long game, with simpler rules but more strategy.
< 1293251113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't even realise it was festivus :(
< 1293251127 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's festivus?
< 1293251156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festivus
< 1293251158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: For the rest of us.
< 1293251164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[["Festivus" was a term used by the 2000 Baltimore Ravens of the National Football League (NFL) and their fans to denote the NFL Playoffs. During the season, Ravens head coach Brian Billick, wanting his players to focus on every game, banned the word "playoffs." Players substituted the term "festivus" for playoffs and "Festivus Maximus" for the Super Bowl. The Ravens eventually won the 2001 Festivus Ma
< 1293251164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ximus, Super Bowl XXXV.]]
< 1293251171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love it when Wikipedia humours other people's jokes for a sentence
< 1293251178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Ravens eventually won the 2001 Festivus Maximus"
< 1293251199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[# In 2007, in a commercialization of the holiday, the first Festivus Pole Lot opened [20] in downtown Milwaukee.]] oh the irony
< 1293251246 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish they would play Seinnfeld on TV
< 1293251266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think they do ... on one of Sky's 7 billion channels
< 1293251299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least here.
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< 1293252205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
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< 1293252518 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if elliott realizes I often rail against things that haven't affected me personally. I am utterly against faith healing, although no one I know has fallen for that BS. I am against thinking that vaccinations cause autism.

< 1293252520 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. etc.
< 1293252560 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293252950 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trying to think of what kind of algorithms and so on to use in TeXnicard for plurals and other word forms.
< 1293253064 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a list of patterns such as "]:1:s" and so on, but what do with other word forms?
< 1293253171 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am against drunk driving, texting while driving, and tired driving, but that might not be the best example -- I haven't learned to drive yet, and I have fears
< 1293253207 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I haven't learn to drive and never plan to. I don't want to have driving license, please.
< 1293253294 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye
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< 1293255975 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vaguely gets offended at "Rides the short bus"

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< 1293257170 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 
< 1293257328 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293257396 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I love it when Wikipedia humours other people's jokes for a sentence
< 1293257512 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Smith#Family_and_early_life.  actually it looks sillier now than when i last saw it.
< 1293257609 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just an edit from yesterday though, so will probably be reverted
< 1293257624 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should leave it :P
< 1293257655 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it wasn't _entirely_ serious before, it just that someone yesterday made it ungrammatical
< 1293257874 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :filebin.ca is down
< 1293257883 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a non-suck file upload site these days?
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< 1293258092 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293258192 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it's
< 1293258229 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes.  it does suck that it's down
< 1293258232 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make a recommendation
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< 1293260535 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Merry Christmas!
< 1293260550 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mêri kurisumasu!)
< 1293260565 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/mêri/merî/
< 1293260660 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :merry christmas
< 1293260682 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION chews som dried fish

< 1293260684 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*some
< 1293260795 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How Norwegian of you.
< 1293260857 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a norwegian specialty, although really i think it's mostly sold to tourists these days :D
< 1293260975 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stockfish it's called in english, according to the bag
< 1293261026 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, dried haddock
< 1293261043 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never heard of it. It just really seemed to me that dried fish would be something exceptionally Norwegian for some reason.
< 1293261056 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1293261084 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also exported in large amounts to southern europe and (the worst quality) africa
< 1293261220 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i don't think they usually eat it without further preparation
< 1293261277 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Beside oil, gas, and income from the merchant fleet, stockfish is Norway's longest sustained export commodity, and the socioeconomically most profitable export over the centuries.
< 1293261287 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293261404 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ... and it's of course the pre-stage to lutefisk!
< 1293261438 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaah, so it's a traditional part of the traditional penance!
< 1293261438 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293261439 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1293261447 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh :D
< 1293261518 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considered buying lutefisk, but apparently it cannot be prepared in microwave 

< 1293261611 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"After sorting by quality, most of the stockfish is exported to Portugal, Italy and Croatia. In Norway and Iceland, the stockfish is mostly used as a snack and for lutefisk production. In Italy and Portugal, the fish (called stoccafisso) is soaked and used in various courses, and is viewed as a delicacy.
< 1293261664 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: According to Wikipedia, "Lutefisk sold in North America may also be cooked in a microwave oven."
< 1293261674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because here in AMERICA we disbelieve in proper cooking!
< 1293261678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1293261716 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the package had no instructions for microwaving, unlike basically all the other ready-meals
< 1293261779 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It amuses me that lutefisk is more commonly eaten in the US than in Norway...
< 1293261802 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(largely courtesy of Scandinavian immigrants up north)
< 1293261805 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh.  well iirc there are more people of norwegian ancestry in the US than in norway
< 1293261821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably.
< 1293261895 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Perhaps I should actually try lutefisk.
< 1293261902 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If you guys disbelieve in proper cooking, what do the Texans do?
< 1293261922 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION assumes they put everything on the barbecue

< 1293261936 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Not only. But stereotypically, yes.
< 1293261958 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, no, there you would be mistaken
< 1293261966 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Texans are actually aware of another cooking method
< 1293261972 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deep frying!
< 1293261976 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh how they love it.
< 1293261990 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a little too much, if you know what I mean
< 1293261990 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1293262032 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Allow me to introduce you to "chicken-fried steak".
< 1293262040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has vaguely heardread on reddit about deep fried bacon

< 1293262040 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a *deep fried steak*.
< 1293262070 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's actually fairly typical in the South.
< 1293262096 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and served with gravy.
< 1293262107 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As is mandatory.
< 1293262144 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider a spherical texan in vacuum...
< 1293262165 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the name comes because it's made very similarly to fried chicken. Another typical food.)
< 1293262170 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also delicious.)
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< 1293263999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
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< 1293273875 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :morning
< 1293274052 0 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-34-16.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293274062 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hi
< 1293274098 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :merry  I guess
< 1293274107 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is xmas here tho
< 1293274159 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, well, it's the 25th here, but only in Scandinavia (as far as I know) does the celebration take place on the proper day, the 24th
< 1293274173 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1293274223 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see
< 1293274230 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i pmed u
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< 1293276086 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone happens to know if handlers registered with atexit() are called on ctrl-c?
< 1293276100 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293276111 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if I need a signal handler
< 1293276201 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like the answer is no
< 1293276241 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :signal handlers it is then
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< 1293278582 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293278634 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they are only called on normal exit.
< 1293278649 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not for signal-caused termination.
< 1293279351 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293279398 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm
< 1293279418 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, do you know if calling complex stuff in a signal handler is safe if you exit at the end?
< 1293279442 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, basically I just want to stop any sound generation in the beeper program if it is ctrl-ced
< 1293279442 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293279456 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so I need a ioctl, then exit()
< 1293279459 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an*
< 1293279467 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not sure that is allowed in signal handlers
< 1293279536 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure. But perhaps there were some relaxations of the rules if the signal handler doesn't exist.
< 1293279576 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I thought so, but I can't find any mention of it
< 1293279594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ncurses' signal handlers do manage the terminal cleanup (incl. raw → cooked input flip) on signals, so it must be possible.
< 1293279602 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293279843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm.
< 1293279854 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tcsetattr is in fact in the list of signal-safe functions, so they can call that.
< 1293279856 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do mask off all signals, so that should not be an issue at least
< 1293279858 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, ioctl is not.
< 1293279862 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, gah
< 1293279924 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it is because ioctl seems to be the sort of "catch-all" function of doing everything that doesn't fit anywhere else.
< 1293279947 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The list does include all kinds of IO stuff.
< 1293279953 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293279973 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so I guess I need a volatile sig_atomic_t then
< 1293279997 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there is that solution. Your sleeps should be interrupted by the signal anyway, I guess.
< 1293280037 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes quite. But what if someone hits ctrl-c when it isn't sleeping, sure not likely, but it could happen
< 1293280037 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be "safe enough" to risk, though. And of course there's not much you can do if you get SIGKILL'd during a beep.
< 1293280047 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means I can't keep it off the "fast path"
< 1293280053 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm
< 1293280054 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1293280101 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could sig-mask everything during the call to ioctl(); I think the only thing that's likely to break is if you call your beep-ioctl() while in the middle of another beep-ioctl() call.
< 1293280104 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ooh wait, init can (and afaik does) ignore kill. You could ptrace init (hm does that actually work?) and inject the beeping code into it.
< 1293280105 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1293280131 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you mean sigmask while calling it in the signal handler?
< 1293280143 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, in the app side.
< 1293280175 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how would that help, the ioctl is just "start playing note at this frequency", then I have to sleep and do another ioctl to stop it playing
< 1293280176 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does sigblock just ignore it, instead of keeping it pending? I haven't really done much messing with signals.
< 1293280209 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, you mean like that
< 1293280210 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hm
< 1293280231 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess blocking does mean actual ignoring.
< 1293280240 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293280244 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be nice if there was some way of keeping the signal in the pending state until it's safe to handle.
< 1293280285 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it actually does work the way I think it would, I think.
< 1293280288 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If the action associated with a blocked signal is anything other than to ignore the signal, and if that signal is generated for the thread, the signal shall remain pending until it is unblocked, --"
< 1293280310 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293280322 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you could hopefully that way make sure the signal is handled when you're safely (for some values of safe) outside the ioctl.
< 1293280375 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course if you want to be literal with the spec, just avoiding the in-ioctl call-ioctl case doesn't make it fully proper.
< 1293280410 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1293280413 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you could fork(), let the child handle the beeping (and ^C-from-terminal reception), and have the parent issue an extra "stop with the beep" ioctl whenever the child terminates.
< 1293280428 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293280455 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't help if someone deliberately sends a SIGTERM (or some other) first to the parent, then to the child.
< 1293280539 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, except if you add in the parent a signal handler to kill+wait the child first, and only then stop the beeping.)
< 1293280571 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293280600 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, this seems a lot more complex :P
< 1293280622 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did the sig_atomic_t now
< 1293280661 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also debugging this /does/ make me nervous. sudo valgrind feels so.... scary
< 1293280820 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For debugging, could you just temporarily sudo chown the device node? (Or does it test against something else?)
< 1293281018 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, do you know why kernel code seems to shun floating point?
< 1293281051 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, the device node is /dev/console, which is as far as I know a bit special, in that it depends on the current vt
< 1293281061 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what messing with chown there would do
< 1293281074 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, possibly it would mess something up
< 1293281144 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could however run it from a non-X vt
< 1293281152 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should change permissions.
< 1293281175 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm actually it doesn't
< 1293281185 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293281227 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Floating point doesn't exist everywhere, which might be a good reason to shun it.
< 1293281238 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I use the same interface as beep(1) but I can't even get beep to work on a vt as a normal user, though I remember that it worked in the past, and the man page states it should work
< 1293281246 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see section "ioctl wackiness"
< 1293281247 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1293281547 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293281680 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, fun: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_speaker#Pulse-width_modulation
< 1293281694 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293281844 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw I think I found out why that tandy sounded so different from the ibm in that video
< 1293281865 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to wikipedia tandy had 3 channels
< 1293281871 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike the ibm which had one
< 1293282037 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was mentioned in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GW-BASIC not sure how reliable it is
< 1293282688 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293282895 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293283267 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, three-channel beeping.
< 1293283579 0 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293283611 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Message on all protocols: Merry Christmas!!!!!
< 1293283768 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293283934 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293284921 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293285058 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293285401 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, quite
< 1293285430 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw... tried MT-32 emulation in scummvm. But... ALSA lib pcm.c:7245:(snd_pcm_recover) underrun occured
< 1293285440 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it may be time to upgrade this computer
< 1293285483 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides it didn't sound like the videos
< 1293285492 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(why I wonder)
< 1293285506 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it sounded like even more advanced synthing)
< 1293285513 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be sample rate or something I guess
< 1293285518 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1293285593 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, my thinkpad has two cards in /proc/asound... card0 and card29
< 1293285613 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :card29/id says ThinkPadEC
< 1293285617 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :card0/id says Intel
< 1293285622 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :card0 is what I would expect
< 1293285688 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ThinkPadEC just has one control in alsamixer, named Console. And it is just mute/unmute, no volume control
< 1293285790 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services
< 1293285811 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293285854 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314
< 1293286050 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293286138 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293286243 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services
< 1293286394 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293286894 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293287130 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293287255 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293287421 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like a ThinkPad console beep.
< 1293287481 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The motherboard-integrated Radeon card has an Alsa entry too, because there's a HDMI port that can be used for audio output.
< 1293287496 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a single alsamixer control called "S/PDIF", and it's also just mute/unmute.
< 1293287546 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293288222 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293288337 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293288481 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL|afk
< 1293289048 0 :TLUL|afk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL
< 1293289336 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293289411 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293289623 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL2
< 1293289653 0 :TLUL2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL
< 1293289982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293289997 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLULbot_
< 1293289998 0 :TLULbot_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1293289998 0 :TLULbot_!~TLUL@Wikia/TLULbot JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293290054 0 :TLULbot_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL2
< 1293290075 0 :TLUL2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL3
< 1293290097 0 :TLUL3!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL4
< 1293290122 0 :TLUL4!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL5
< 1293290185 0 :TLUL5!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL
< 1293290186 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1293290186 0 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293290414 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293290508 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293291144 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6d83.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293291464 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sounds like a ThinkPad console beep. <-- ah perhaps
< 1293291496 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293291518 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the thinkpad just beeps using the normal speakers. Normal volume control affects it
< 1293291628 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293292636 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293292687 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293292742 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293293052 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293293725 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293293850 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293293867 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293294085 0 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-34-16.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293294829 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293294994 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293295582 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1293295996 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293295999 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293296095 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293297079 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293297199 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293297709 0 :Wamanuz5!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293297789 0 :Wamanuz4!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1293298191 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293298333 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293298379 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoooh
< 1293298406 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haaah
< 1293298452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hieeee
< 1293298482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been meaning to ask; what /is/ the other meaning of esoteric?
< 1293298485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the non-programming one, that is
< 1293298500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hidden mystic knowledge?
< 1293298510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps
< 1293298527 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"confined to and understandable by only an enlightened inner circle; "a compilation of esoteric philosophical theories"
< 1293298541 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that is basically also the meaning we use!
< 1293298545 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except less magical
< 1293298547 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define esoteric
< 1293298558 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`swedish esoteric
< 1293298561 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!swedish esoteric
< 1293298587 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isutereec
< 1293298595 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* confined to and understandable by only an enlightened inner circle; "a compilation of esoteric philosophical theories" \        [23]wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn \      * Esotericism or Esoterism is a term with two basic meanings. In the dictionary sense of the term, "esoterism" signifies the holding of opinions
< 1293298597 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esutereec
< 1293298603 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh it's working
< 1293298631 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1293298638 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`swedish esoteric
< 1293298639 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isutereec
< 1293298642 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!swedish esoteric
< 1293298643 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esutereec
< 1293298655 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUST BE DIFFERENT DIALECTS
< 1293298694 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swedish and finno-swedish
< 1293298935 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :russe-norsk
< 1293298962 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russenorsk )
< 1293298998 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that survived the soviet union.  maybe it'll redevelop now...
< 1293299070 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although nowadays it's probably replaced by english
< 1293299192 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhuh
< 1293299306 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.12/20101026210630]
< 1293299329 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293299533 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293301157 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhuh
< 1293301173 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo uhuh
< 1293301173 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhuh uhuh
< 1293301350 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone tried Scala?
< 1293301352 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Io?
< 1293302534 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1293302547 0 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293302999 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~nice@p5B132767.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293305233 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293305301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hi elliott btw
< 1293305307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523!
< 1293305309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy christmas
< 1293305316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and/or other holiday of various kinds
< 1293305316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(saying "btw" at the end of that makes it look like the channel's been active...)
< 1293305324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed, insert typical christmas greeting here
< 1293305338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got SICP :)
< 1293305346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you read it today?
< 1293305358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like ten pages! finally i am a real programmer
< 1293305429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote * oerjan considered buying lutefisk, but apparently it cannot be prepared in microwave 
< 1293305431 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :255) * oerjan considered buying lutefisk, but apparently it cannot be prepared in microwave 
< 1293305445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only a Norwegian could decide not to bother with the delights of lutefisk because it would be too inconvenient
< 1293305591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:47:07  Floating point doesn't exist everywhere, which might be a good reason to shun it.
< 1293305594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also it is scary.
< 1293305614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:57:10  fizzie, btw... tried MT-32 emulation in scummvm. But... ALSA lib pcm.c:7245:(snd_pcm_recover) underrun occured
< 1293305619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You did pirate the ROMs, right?
< 1293305633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't work without them.
< 1293305638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:34:42  I've been meaning to ask; what /is/ the other meaning of esoteric?
< 1293305647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Aleister Crowley magick, except more general
< 1293305663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's a hideous overgeneralisation, but
< 1293305688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anybody stupid enough to think #esoteric on freenode would be about esoterica probably hasn't got a better definition themselves
< 1293305764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am, incidentally, very tired
< 1293306038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so am I
< 1293306049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been online recently because I've been pretty ill
< 1293306058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still am, actually, but Christmas takes precedence for some reason
< 1293306098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry to hear it
< 1293306103 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, some people put off dying until after christmas
< 1293306104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did those keyloggers ever get written?
< 1293306111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, I have to mark those somehow
< 1293306119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've been submitted, and I have a bunch of them to mark
< 1293306123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I haven't dared to actually look at them yet
< 1293306129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now may not be a good time
< 1293306199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1293306209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to find a suitable VM to mark them in
< 1293306215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'll be a pain rebooting it all the time
< 1293306236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a) because the kernel modules in question probably won't unload properly, b) because the very nature of the problem means that pretty much any error will just crash the system
< 1293306404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: qemu? that can boot without assembling a hard disk image
< 1293306422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: -kernel bzImage -initrd foo -append root=blah
< 1293306428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, root= just beind an example
< 1293306469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://syntensity.com/static/python.html <-- CPython, compiled to LLVM bitcode, compiled to JavaScript.
< 1293306623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here's a riddle/thought experiment for you
< 1293306630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (car '()) is an invalid Scheme program.
< 1293306637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is (eval '(car '())) a valid Scheme program?
< 1293307301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://syntensity.com/static/python.js
< 1293308151 0 :Wamanuz5!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293308297 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293308648 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293308701 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I have never watched any cricket game on television or in a stadium, I have heard the game on the radio, I have seen photographs, and I have seen scorecards.
< 1293309029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>  ((evil '(lambda (x) x) '())
< 1293309029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'(hello))
< 1293309029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: attempt to call a non-procedure
< 1293309029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       ('hello '())
< 1293309030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh what
< 1293309238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[    Interesting, but please, the wiki is really not a discussion board. We were using it that way before, but it sucked. Tell the forum about this matter. --Graue 02:02, 24 May 2006 (UTC)]], in reply to ais523
< 1293309245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graue must hate us so much :)
< 1293309260 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1293309273 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I disagree. The wiki works better as the discussion board than the forum we have. IRC can also be used for discussion.
< 1293309429 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293309445 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION needs to take a chill pill sometimes

< 1293309480 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :liquid nitrogen with raspberry flavor
< 1293309517 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=P lol
< 1293309532 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what it would take to have solid nitrogen

< 1293309767 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :63.153 K, -210.00 °C, -346.00 °F
< 1293309832 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that's only about 15 °C below boiling
< 1293310082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think everyone disagrees with em on that
< 1293310095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikis make very good forums
< 1293310105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find them much more convenient than most actual forums
< 1293310112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I agree completely -- I was remarking on the fact that /none/ of Graue's policies seem to be popular
< 1293310121 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think you are correct. I agree with you about that
< 1293310134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "no categories without discussing" thing is just weird, the keeping "User:" in links is weird too...
< 1293310140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I have watched cricket games, actually
< 1293310156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rarely worth going to a stadium to actually watch the game, the field's so big you can hardly see what's going on, on TV works a lot better
< 1293310160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've watched them both ways)
< 1293310163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, anyway, I'm trying to beat cpressey at his own game
< 1293310166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I agree with User: in links
< 1293310178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you know me from Wikipedia, I'm a stickler for namespace separation
< 1293310197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, I'm trying to beat him at the "Scheme subset with a short self-interpreter" game
< 1293310214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since, well, even reading the first few pages of SICP does things like this to you
< 1293310242 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can ignore any policies that don't work that are bad except for the one about public domain. (Even wikipedia has one rule "ignore all rules" and it is basically of a similar idea; if the rule doesn't work, do something else. But also fix things to meet the rule if they should. There are rules for a reason!)
< 1293310255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that's not such a wise idea, at least it wasn't when Graue was around
< 1293310260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his reaction to people breaking policies was to yell at them a lot
< 1293310263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1293310269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only once, but it was pretty famous
< 1293310275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combined with a mass revert of changes and a short ban
< 1293310282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: more than once
< 1293310285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really?
< 1293310291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the year categories thing is the only thing I can think of
< 1293310293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I found another Graue-rage recently, lemme grep the logs
< 1293310298 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You have watched at a stadium and television. What match was it and where was the stadium?
< 1293310298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wasn't he against them?
< 1293310311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it was Edgbaston stadium in Birmingham, more than once
< 1293310324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not in principle, e was against the fact they were implemented without asking for permission first
< 1293310344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e doesn't mind the categories /themselves/
< 1293310360 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was wrong with the year categories?
< 1293310368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: not in principle, e was against the fact they were implemented without asking for permission first
< 1293310374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: grr, ever said something and then been unable to find it in the logs?
< 1293310386 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You are correct partially I think, of course there are rules for a reason. But you have to know the purpose of the rules too.
< 1293310389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can't remember
< 1293310398 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean, what was the match format?
< 1293310400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems plausible that I've done that, but I can't think of an occasion on which it's happened
< 1293310412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: five-day, either international or county
< 1293310420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not seeing all five days
< 1293310420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.12.22:19:37:47  haha, and some classic Graue rage:
< 1293310420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.12.22:19:37:49  [[I reverted your purge of Talk:Udage because that isn't the way wikis work. You do not own that page, nor do you own the Udage article. Do not delete valid information from this site again. --Graue 19:16, 10 Oct 2005 (GMT)]]
< 1293310427 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Graue even still active?
< 1293310427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more commonly 1 or 2
< 1293310431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: nope
< 1293310433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he wiped the talk page after it got big, IIRC)
< 1293310435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e only wakes up in emergencies nowadays
< 1293310453 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's more active than I
< 1293310455 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.>
< 1293310464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I agree with not blanking the pages, but the reaction is a bit over-the-top)
< 1293310469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me, Keymaker and cpressey deal with most of the spam problem, that's pretty much the only thing that normally needs admin intervention
< 1293310495 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, that is OK. If there is enough of wrong thing that is emergency, it ought to be corrected like that.
< 1293310497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I like how cpressey didn't even realise he was a sysop until I told him
< 1293310501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: despite him deleting pages before that
< 1293310549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, I just realised I'm basically cheating at the self-interpreter game
< 1293310553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :accidentally
< 1293310576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm using various non-trivial procedures, and then just including them in the self-interpreter with
< 1293310578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(foo . ,foo)
< 1293310580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the default environment
< 1293310589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., abusing metacircular privileges to vastly inflate the language
< 1293310637 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is excited for the upcoming release of Newspeak, despite not having enough time to submit my trivial IDE changes

< 1293310652 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, change. And it would probably be easier to describe the change than to package it up in any way
< 1293310663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh
< 1293310665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mouse is ... leaking
< 1293310720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1293310724 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293310822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is there an idealised algol self-interp? :)
< 1293310933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have I/O, so no
< 1293310959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the interesting subsets are incapable of self-interpreting due to being FSMs
< 1293310972 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I assume that's a metaphor for trying to avoid me?
< 1293310980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what
< 1293310991 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What could a mouse possibly leak?
< 1293310991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you don't need IO, just have a program that is a function
< 1293310994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taking a program and returning the result
< 1293310997 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*non-biological mouse
< 1293311001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i wish i knew
< 1293311056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reminds me of my /quit I think my computer is on fire
< 1293311075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it doesn't have any sort of string type either
< 1293311088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even an easy equivalent to lists
< 1293311097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sounds useful!
< 1293311111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idealised, see?
< 1293311128 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have I actually talked about Alluded To Female enough in here for her to be called Alluded To Female?
< 1293311138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No, and please don't make it that way.
< 1293311145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX!
< 1293311149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: assume a perfectly spherical programming language in a vacuum
< 1293311169 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So why did you mention Alluded To Female the other day?
< 1293311181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did?
< 1293311211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, you know, say, Iterable from Java, or your equivalent in insert-favourite-programming-language-here?
< 1293311221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure
< 1293311226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty much as close to a string as you can get in Idealised Algol
< 1293311230 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I said something about sending a message to Fidelity, and you thought Fidelity was her name
< 1293311249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably close enough to work from
< 1293311249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so all strings are 8 bytes? :)
< 1293311257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1293311257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(say yes)
< 1293311259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn
< 1293311272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're things that support the same methods as a list of 8-bit characters would
< 1293311280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, bool
< 1293311282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not byte
< 1293311285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1293311299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who needs data types other than booleans?
< 1293311315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, IA's type system is hilarious; it's based around 1-bit integers and 0-bit integers)
< 1293311320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: idealised algol has functions, does it not?
< 1293311323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the 0-bit integers are used more often)
< 1293311326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why does it need booleans?!
< 1293311329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does, but only in the typed lambda calculus sense
< 1293311335 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0-bit... integers..
< 1293311347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it doesn't actually need booleans
< 1293311347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can do booleans in typed lambda calculus :P
< 1293311355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the typed
< 1293311360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, I think they end up equivalent in the final circuitry
< 1293311398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, \a\b.a and \a\b.b are wired the same way as true and false)
< 1293311399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your language is bloated! I'm switching to Idealised Concurrent Lambda Calculus
< 1293311432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how generic is idealised algol? e.g. could there be a VHDL compiler outputting idealised algol?
< 1293311439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have three or possibly four base types: command (0-bit int), integer (1-bit int), variable (like bool* in C), and perhaps Semaphor
< 1293311443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*semaphore
< 1293311451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0-bit int is just data () = (), surely?
< 1293311454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some debate as to whether the semaphores are intrinsically needed
< 1293311456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep
< 1293311466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it can still be evaluated for its side effects
< 1293311467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, like (bool *) sans pointer arithmetic, one presumes
< 1293311473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes
< 1293311481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like (bool &) from C++, except everyone hates C++
< 1293311485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I would call 0-bit int "the unit type"
< 1293311491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0-bit integer just makes it sound strange for no real reason
< 1293311491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ref bool from ML
< 1293311496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *bool ref
< 1293311496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, we normally call it "command"
< 1293311499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that sounds even weirder
< 1293311501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: err, yes
< 1293311510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in ML, type parameters come first, because inconsistency is a virtue
< 1293311548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IA/ICA is pretty heavily inspired by ML, actually
< 1293311562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it's call-by-name
< 1293311591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this makes it difficult to determine whether it's lazy or eager, it has properties of both; mostly lazy, I think)
< 1293311601 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4:30 I quit IRC
< 1293311603 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(local time)
< 1293311618 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, elliott. Not forever.
< 1293311641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have 16 minutes
< 1293311643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan!
< 1293311653 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION commends tswett on counting the number of sand particles in Nubia

< 1293311695 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wonder he was away from the channel so long
< 1293311706 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hmm?
< 1293311809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, beating cpressey is really hard
< 1293311861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can you get a rubber hose to beat cpressey with?
< 1293311884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just steal something from a shop, kill the Kops that come after you, and take theirs
< 1293311892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: this may only work in NetHack, not in Real Life)
< 1293311923 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@64.231.54.113 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293311926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: killing the Kops is not exactly /easy/
< 1293311933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, Kops are pretty rubbish
< 1293311935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: here ===================================
< 1293311938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the shopkeeper that's the issue
< 1293311943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Kops are just there to get in the way
< 1293311950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, the Kops are fine, I forgot
< 1293311954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was thinking of the Watch
< 1293311962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who, er, bad memories
< 1293311976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: YO HMOD UPDATE OUT CUZ IT'S LIKE THEI T
< 1293311978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*THE IT
< 1293311987 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you escaped the watch IIRC
< 1293312009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Correction -- I, pressing the keys that #nethack told me to, escaped the Watch.
< 1293312012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#nethack is a very good player.
< 1293312612 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, bye all
< 1293312624 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye all.
< 1293312635 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am sorry I am late.
< 1293312644 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What was the result of the match?
< 1293312645 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1293312790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I can't remember
< 1293312792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was ages ago
< 1293312799 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I was supporting either team
< 1293312851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs appears to rearrange itself in my task bar if i move it
< 1293312855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go next to firefox, stupid thing!
< 1293312862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, don't go next to two firefoxes
< 1293312862 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a description of algorithm for plurals, I might use something similar with TeXnicard.
< 1293312867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dragged you next to /one/
< 1293312924 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But first I should add conditional processing commands @< ... @>
< 1293312943 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps @[ ... @]
< 1293312962 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Do you need to support either team?
< 1293313012 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Do you remember if there were any ties or draws?
< 1293313024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1293313027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my program has a cadadr in it
< 1293313029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cadadr e)
< 1293313040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: draws are quite common, ties are pretty rare
< 1293313045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(draws happen when you run out of time)
< 1293313172 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How common are draws? (I have only seen a few scorecards, so I don't know.)
< 1293313429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty common
< 1293313443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes sides get greedy and get too many runs, then can't win in time
< 1293313457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sometimes sides stall for a draw because they know that declaring would probably make them lose
< 1293313480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes, about half the games are draws
< 1293313485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, I think I might have to convert my defines into lets
< 1293313495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to the extent that county cricket introduced a tiebreak rule for draws, to stop people doing it so much)
< 1293313533 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :declare?
< 1293313546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :concede the rest of your innings
< 1293313549 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Declare an innings closed is you end your current innings early.
< 1293313568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only do it when you think you'll win anyway, and fear that if you continue you'll end up running out of time and only getting a draw
< 1293313730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I /think/ I have BEGIN and DEFINE support now.
< 1293313969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, my default environment is going to be ugly though
< 1293313971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I have no LIST
< 1293314004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cons (cons 'cons cons) ...)
< 1293314010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cons cons cons cons cons cons cons.
< 1293314229 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is one possible rule (I don't know how well it would work): If one side has wasted more time than the other side in total, and the game is running out of time while the side wasting more time is the batting side, the batting side loses. (I don't know how well such a rule would work.)
< 1293314377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you tell if a side is wasting time?
< 1293314384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rule actually used is based on runs per over
< 1293314388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is similar, in a way
< 1293314397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that timewasting tends to be quite low on runrate
< 1293314409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas trying to hurry up so you can declare tends to be quite hich
< 1293314410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*high
< 1293314596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I need help with another scheme question.  I have four different functions that check four conditions to determine validity of the input. Each function checks one condition and returs a boolean.  Normally, I would just check ((func1) && (func2) && .....)and print out the boolean.  But appearantly Scheme48 doesn't allow logic operators.  So How do I check the four functions without using logic operators?"
< 1293314636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be something like (lazy-and (func1) (func2) (func3) (func4)), although I don't know what the function's actually called in Scheme
< 1293314651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "and", and it's a special form; but I know this, I was just quoting it for amusement.
< 1293314652 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293314656 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't know if you can tell if a side is wasting time much, except possibly in a computer game. Or maybe with TV recording. I don't know.
< 1293314660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[I tried doing cond( (func1) (cond( (func2) (cond (func3) (cond (func4)#T))))) but it returns
< 1293314660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: invalid variable reference
< 1293314660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        cond
< 1293314660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        #{Package 173 user}
< 1293314660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; no values returned]]
< 1293314663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ lol
< 1293314694 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293314737 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe runs per over might work. Either way, if you think you could tell which side wasted more time in the match in total, do you think my rule would work? (I don't know for sure?)
< 1293314977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   In any case, I strongly think that the primitive for assigment
< 1293314977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   should be SET and not SET!. In fact, since no one likes assignment
< 1293314977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   anyway, I don't see any reason why anyone should object to just
< 1293314977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   leaving this undefined in the standard.
< 1293314991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- Kent M Pitman, the RRRS standardisation list, 1984
< 1293314994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only.
< 1293315219 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What is it that you are making?
< 1293315292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I am attempting to implement an interpreter of a restricted subset of Scheme in that subset, such that the self-interpreter is shorter than that of Chris Pressey's Pixley effort (http://catseye.tc/projects/pixley/) without the language being much bigger at all.
< 1293315471 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. Try to make that.
< 1293315831 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293316021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow I think this self-interpreter might actually work right now
< 1293316024 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL5
< 1293316029 0 :TLUL5!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Cook_Me_Flax
< 1293316039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if I fix the ONE OR TWO errors :P
< 1293316107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, where _is_ that unterminated list
< 1293316255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you never tried that riddle, did you?
< 1293316267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1293316268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"riddle"
< 1293316272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a very lose sense of the word
< 1293316888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, more bugs
< 1293316931 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the document I found about English plural:   http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~damian/papers/HTML/Plurals.html   (I plan to use a somewhat more generic algorithm in TeXnicard)
< 1293316934 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293317018 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is TeXnicard?
< 1293317105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay damian conway
< 1293317285 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not sure ym little finger can take much more proving
< 1293317329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: you prove things with your little finger?
< 1293317335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tend to use my other fingers, too
< 1293317387 0 :TLUL_!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293317414 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293317425 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even with Ctrl moved to the caps-lock key, it's taking a beating with all these lemmas
< 1293317451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: the best place for ctrl is where alt is (on pc keyboards) IMO, that's where it originally was
< 1293317454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and alt was at the extremities
< 1293317460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :originally = on ibm pc keyboards
< 1293317461 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1293317472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although on os x of course this is done by default
< 1293317474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, with apple keyboards
< 1293317480 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any idea how to tell emacs this ? :D
< 1293317486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in emacs, though, which still uses ctrl...
< 1293317496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: dunno, what OS?
< 1293317501 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu
< 1293317524 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have to say I like them where they are
< 1293317558 0 :Cook_Me_Flax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293317575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: system → preferences → keyboard → layouts → options... → ctrl key position → ...never mind, it doesn't have an option for it
< 1293317584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: you could mess around with xkb. but that way madness lies.
< 1293317693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: telling emacs, though... I /think/ you can tell it to consider another key to be C-
< 1293317707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't know how.
< 1293318040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait /what/
< 1293318101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293318248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok this /almost/ works
< 1293318310 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: You did pirate the ROMs, right? <-- I found some copies on an old floppy. It said "this is totally legal" on the sticker
< 1293318323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I meant as opposed to not having the ROMs. :p
< 1293318333 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I do have the roms yes
< 1293318340 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it failed in a different way before that
< 1293318346 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which was to exit
< 1293318355 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and the music /plays/, it just stutters
< 1293318360 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every now and then
< 1293318360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Note: The MT-32 has a superior sound to the emulator, even when it works properly.
< 1293318366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, also, uses less CPU.
< 1293318372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I mention ScummVM can interface with a real MT-32?
< 1293318377 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't have one
< 1293318378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I'm saying is: BUY IT FROM ME GOD DAMMIT.
< 1293318381 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that doesn't help
< 1293318386 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, don't you want to use it
< 1293318389 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, free shipping?
< 1293318406 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I have nowhere to put it anyway
< 1293318409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Free shipping if the price is at least \epsilon more than the cost of shipping :p
< 1293318410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P
< 1293318412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's not big.
< 1293318425 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, approx dimensions?
< 1293318442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umm... it's wider and about as long as this 13" laptop, I'd say. Pretty flat; just enough for a display and some knobs.
< 1293318445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Light, too.
< 1293318452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/05/MT_32.jpg
< 1293318454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not big.
< 1293318466 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that doesn't really show the scale
< 1293318468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.chrisguitars.com/rol-mt32.jpg
< 1293318471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Comparison with big power brick.
< 1293318484 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293318499 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, won't fit. Only place I have is on top of the tower case really
< 1293318517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just put it on the floor :P
< 1293318539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternatively, I'M SELLING AN AUTHENTIC SNAKE-OIL-COATED HOUSING STATION FOR THE MT-32.
< 1293318545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only $1e9999999999999999999999.
< 1293318559 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, besides, the actual copy of the game for scummvm I have includes some *.ogg renderings that sound like the mt-32
< 1293318562 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that don't stutter
< 1293318569 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that scummvm seems able to use
< 1293318573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Is that Monkey Island 1?
< 1293318580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If so, those are rips of the CD tracks.
< 1293318582 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 1 and 2. Have only tried 1 so far
< 1293318591 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both have *.ogg
< 1293318594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Right, 2 you don't need MT-32 for, just tell it to use Adlib.
< 1293318601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, and BTW, you want to turn on aspect ratio correction in the ScummVM settings.
< 1293318602 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but adlib sounds horrible
< 1293318604 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard that
< 1293318608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not for MI2. It's designed for Adlib.
< 1293318611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(More or less.)
< 1293318611 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh
< 1293318624 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, aspect ratio correction?
< 1293318633 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, won't it just resize the window?
< 1293318634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. global scummvm settings -> graphics.
< 1293318647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: tl;dr the games are 320x200. This was shown on a 4:3 monitor.
< 1293318649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. non-square pixels.
< 1293318660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. everything will look subtly wrong if you don't turn on aspect ratio correction.
< 1293318661 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeargh
< 1293318671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You probably want 2x or 3x scaling (with no filters) too.
< 1293318676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Higher is better, since there's less error in the aspect ratio correction then.
< 1293318678 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw xdpyinfo or whatever thinks I have (very slightly) non-square pixels
< 1293318691 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dpi differs in like 1-2. I think it is wrong
< 1293318696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think that's just because you have non-square pixel distance, possibly.
< 1293318700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the actual pixels still being square.
< 1293318721 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well measuring and dividing by pixels gives it as square
< 1293318730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough then.
< 1293318732 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the difference is too small to actually be certain about
< 1293318746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to figure out how my self-interpreter is broken.
< 1293318761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhhhhh-ha!
< 1293318763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't.
< 1293318768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just foolishly using an INVALID PROGRAM.
< 1293318796 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean, I /could/ use the steel calipers I have. But the risk of scratching screen is high
< 1293318807 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also I don't think it would be enough for the width
< 1293318882 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it could be some integer rounding error for the dpi I guess
< 1293318903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/WhkPl.gif <-- Oh man, time to get some wood, I'm all out. La la la... la la la... WHAT AAAAAAAA
< 1293318912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on SMP, apparently)
< 1293318921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better with TNT though :P
< 1293318940 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two of these three monitors report non-equal X/Y DPI numbers too.
< 1293318942 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ xdpyinfo | grep -i resolution:
< 1293318942 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  resolution:    93x95 dots per inch
< 1293318942 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  resolution:    99x98 dots per inch
< 1293318942 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  resolution:    96x96 dots per inch
< 1293318958 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, water on the wood?
< 1293318964 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh right, you did that?
< 1293318985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No.
< 1293318989 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, we have 2 or 3 "water trees" on our server
< 1293318994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We do?
< 1293319014 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, two near 4000,4000, I made one (4x4x2 pool) and PH made one (1x1x1 pool)
< 1293319020 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and a third one elsewhere iirc
< 1293319026 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere northeast of spawn
< 1293319027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so a tree in water. Right.
< 1293319058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feck, it do not wurk.
< 1293319059 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that happens too
< 1293319067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This a bads!
< 1293319083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ mzscheme -f diuerse.scm
< 1293319083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(begin (define x (quote x)) x)
< 1293319083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(begin x)
< 1293319083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x
< 1293319083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :car: expects argument of type ; given ()
< 1293319084 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or rather, way east from spawn there is a waterfall with multiple partially submerged trees
< 1293319086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT HAVE I EVER DONE TO YOU
< 1293319098 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this was natural
< 1293319153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I fix this bug, though, I think I've beaten cpressey.
< 1293319167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'll want to implement a compiler to C, so we can have a wonderful Diuerse interpreter in C.
< 1293319176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. With a hardcoded program.
< 1293319208 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, beaten him at what?
< 1293319278 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beaten him with what?
< 1293319311 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A ray of sunlight is made up many atoms." -- Plan 9 from Outer Space.
< 1293319340 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supposedly with "of" in there, that might be a typo of whoever made this script transcription thing.
< 1293319394 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, not of sunlight, But what about a ray of CME? (Coronal Mass Ejection iirc)
< 1293319421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Beaten him at "a Scheme subset with a short self-interpreter".
< 1293319445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My language is slightly bigger than his (but smaller in some other aspects), but the self-interpreter is shorter and simpler.
< 1293319448 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh, but didn't he hate the begin keyword?
< 1293319504 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "Take a can of your gasoline. Say this can of gasoline is the sun. Now you spread a thin a line of it to a ball, representing the Earth. Now, the gasoline represents the sunlight, the sun particles. Here we saturate the ball with the gasoline, the sunlight. Then we put a flame to the ball. The flame will speedily travel around the Earth, back along the line of gasoline to can, or the sun itself. It will explode this source, and spread to every place tha
< 1293319504 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t gasoline, or sunlight, touches. Explode the sunlight here, Gentlemen, and you explode the universe."
< 1293319520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I could do without begin, it'd just be slightly uglier. I don't know that he hates it, anyway, and Scheme has no keywords; "begin" is a perfectly valid symbol, for instance. But, yes, the BEGIN special form.
< 1293319539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That is my new favourite science.
< 1293319557 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ... this is so.... absurd
< 1293319561 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about a solaronite bomb.
< 1293319604 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: BOOOM
< 1293319618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explode The Sunlight Here, Gentlemen, And You Explode The Universe sounds like a post-post-indie post-post-post-pre-'pata-post-hipster album title.
< 1293319622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so not really.
< 1293319625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT IT WOULD, IN A BETTER UNIVERSE.
< 1293319630 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, oerjan must've stumbled across some solaronite. Bye bye, universe.
< 1293319639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP universe a long time ago -- recently.
< 1293319660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I wonder what would happen in MC if the admin was to /give 64 blocks of 0 to a player
< 1293319664 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is air iirc)
< 1293319670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't think you can hold air.
< 1293319695 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the "space soldier" bad guy is called Eros.
< 1293319725 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, .... ....
< 1293319737 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if pre-beta you could have placed air (with the item-placement hack) as opposed to mining.
< 1293319807 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least with /give you can (or could) give someone water/lava source blocks, and they could hold those just fine. (They were rendered as thin, flat squares of water/lava when held in the hand.)
< 1293319856 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And protocol-wise the "no block" code tends to be -1, not 0. So it could do something.
< 1293319907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Minepedia is very adamant that you can't do any funny stuff with air, at least: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Air
< 1293319960 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There's no item with id 0"
< 1293319968 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently not, then.
< 1293320005 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Water is nice and animated in the inventory too.
< 1293320035 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both spring and block forms have the same tooltip ("Water").
< 1293320042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ mzscheme -f diuerse.scm
< 1293320042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(quote x)
< 1293320046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no, no ...
< 1293320052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Portals even have a nice inventory icon. :p
< 1293320059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, actual portal block. It just dies after a few seconds if you place it.
< 1293320108 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The non-source water block is pretty silly. You can place a block of still, non-flowing water anywhere, apparently.
< 1293320129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome.
< 1293320202 0 :calamari!~calamari@206.29.188.191 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293320202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works!
< 1293320205 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293320218 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1293320274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1293320488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I think that my procedures may not support recursion as-is
< 1293320514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1293320584 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :working on something fun?
< 1293320641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: semi-fun
< 1293320654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: a self-interpreter for a tiny subset of Scheme
< 1293320668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the goal is to beat cpressey by having a shorter self-interpreter with a language about as small :)
< 1293320693 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool
< 1293320730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently I have a 66-line interpreter which does everything except recursion.
< 1293320746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which I think can make self-interpret by changing (define (f ...) ...) to (define f (lambda (...) ...)).
< 1293320749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, and adding recursion :P
< 1293320775 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's kind of like having a C compiler that doesn't support loops
< 1293320803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Technically, all I have to do is fix DEFINE.
< 1293320824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I could have it so that in (define name value), name is in value's scope. Except not really, because that'd be infinite recursion etc.
< 1293320835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the way I do it, define is basically a let around the rest of the program.
< 1293320843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm not quite sure what to do.
< 1293320904 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For define, all you need to do is implement macros and convert (define (f ...) ...) to (define f (lambda (...) ...)) using them
< 1293320915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That's not the issue.
< 1293320924 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I was being snarky.
< 1293320932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1293320945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The real issue is that "(define x (lambda () (x)) ..." doesn't work, because it just adds x to the environment in which it evaluates "...".
< 1293320950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*x)))
< 1293320956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's not exactly clear how to fix this.
< 1293320968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could add list mutation, but, uh, that's a lot of additional complexity and ugliness and horrible and ugh.
< 1293320978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait!
< 1293320980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I can just fix define.
< 1293320983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no, I can't.
< 1293320986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I? Maybe.
< 1293320995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if I add another parameter to EVIL to denote ... no, no.
< 1293321000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if ... no.
< 1293321032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Fix my program, yo!
< 1293321043 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/bugs//
< 1293321046 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done
< 1293321046 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how goes the C game language thing?
< 1293321058 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not quite c
< 1293321072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Waiting for Phantom_Hoover to return from his mandatory six-day relative-visiting-hell. (Note: Hell may be exaggerating. Slightly!) :p
< 1293321095 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually I had guests from US this evening. Very nice.
< 1293321118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but this is IRELAND.
< 1293321141 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are not old relatives however, but rather young friends of my mom.
< 1293321161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mom"? You've turned into one of them already!
< 1293321176 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh right "mum" in UK
< 1293321210 0 :TLUL_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL
< 1293321265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr, this is actually really subtle.
< 1293321272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly I did not read sufficient amounts of SICP today.
< 1293321365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes:

< 1293321366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T3X.ORG : Goodbye
< 1293321366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to a revision of German law (the controversial JMStV), I will take this site off-line on 2010-12-31 until some degree of legal certainty has been established.
< 1293321368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for posterity:
< 1293321370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking for Scheme 9 from Empty Space?
< 1293321371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is now hosted at these locations:
< 1293321371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    http://tx97.net/s9fes/
< 1293321373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    http://telegraphics.com.au/s9fes/
< 1293321375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    http://www.sacrideo.us/s9fes/
< 1293321377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    http://xivilization.net/~marek/s9fes/
< 1293321379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks for giving the code a new home!
< 1293321627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   ((equal? (car e) 'lambda)
< 1293321627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    (lambda (args)
< 1293321627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      (evil
< 1293321627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       (car (cdr (cdr e))) ;;
< 1293321627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       (append (bind (car (cdr e)) args) env))))
< 1293321635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1293321649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pixley solves this problem by just Y-combinatoring, but, uh, ...
< 1293321792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody have any fantastically enlightening opinions to give?
< 1293321827 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evil??
< 1293321890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: It's what I called eval to not step on the built-in R5RS procedure.
< 1293322400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great, it doesn't self-interpret...
< 1293322409 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, HEATHENS
< 1293322488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: YO.
< 1293322490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Fix my 'terp.
< 1293322504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, everyone fix my 'terp.
< 1293322521 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOWAY BIACH
< 1293322521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If you don't want to do that, write a paper about this: http://syntensity.com/static/python.js
< 1293322526 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just have something that turns "lambda" into lambda and you're done
< 1293322536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CPython compiled to LLVM compiled to JavaScript.
< 1293322539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: nope, it's a scope problem
< 1293322548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: basically "(define x y) ..." is the same as (let ((x y)) ...)
< 1293322555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so obviously can't self-reference at all :-/
< 1293322558 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scope is always difficult..
< 1293322563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean I'm just doing
< 1293322567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define mock
< 1293322567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  (lambda (f)
< 1293322567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    (f f)))
< 1293322568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for now
< 1293322571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and having everything be ugly
< 1293322575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i have a subtle bug now, in self-interpreting
< 1293322578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just making me the sads.
< 1293322693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically
< 1293322695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cons: expects 2 arguments, given 1: (car #)
< 1293323080 0 :RachelS!~rpsikorsk@c-24-131-239-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293323091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi RachelS
< 1293323114 0 :RachelS!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello Elliot
< 1293323204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RachelS: this channel is about esoteric programming languages, btw
< 1293323222 0 :RachelS!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes I've visited your wiki
< 1293323231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, a lot of people come in here expecting other things :p
< 1293323241 0 :RachelS!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had no expectations
< 1293323483 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293323510 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293323590 0 :RachelS!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1293323678 0 :ineiros_!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293323984 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1293324371 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate re-writing :/
< 1293324662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros_: hMod, it is the out.
< 1293324755 0 :calamari_!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293324827 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye
< 1293324842 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :calamari
< 1293327348 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm running out o fmotivation :(
< 1293327516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: but category theory!
< 1293327521 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know
< 1293327542 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'ull make a roadmap
< 1293329414 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293330016 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293330247 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293330427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone else want to try the Pixley Challenge? :-P
< 1293330462 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293330487 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-38-203.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293330761 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it?
< 1293330836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: "Write a self-interpreter in a subset of R5RS Scheme. Optimise for the shortness of the interpreter and secondarily the size of the language. You may make it metacircular, but using EVAL itself is probably verboten in my opinion."
< 1293330842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: (That's what I just wrote now, not a quote.)
< 1293330848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It must be able to interpret itself, obviously.
< 1293330852 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it has to be scheme
< 1293330936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: well you could do it to common lisp if you wanted i guess
< 1293330940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but scheme is simpler to implement
< 1293331084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: why, what lang were you thinking of?
< 1293331824 0 :benuphoenix!~benuphoen@5.sub-97-168-29.myvzw.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293332106 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1293332702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1293332820 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-149-54.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293333423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man, this is so close to working
< 1293333488 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh?
< 1293333548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yep, my metacircular subset-of-Scheme interpreter
< 1293333629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :procedure ...e/diuerse/d2.scm:34:5: expects 2 arguments, given 1: ((procedure? e) e)
< 1293333631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, what :)
< 1293334016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: fix my code!
< 1293334165 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Insufficient Calvin & Hobbes.
< 1293334220 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck yeah scheme
< 1293334273 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood!
< 1293334282 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've not seen you actually say something in ages!
< 1293334284 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1293334583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: less talking more pixley challenging
< 1293334781 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs more call/cc
< 1293334845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: if you can make the self-interpreter smaller by doing CALL-WITH-CURRENT-CONTINUATION ... be my guest but i find it unlikely
< 1293334894 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1293334958 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-146-87.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293335056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so how do i order some piks from the hq
< 1293335254 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1293336569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://projectfortress.sun.com/Projects/Community/blog/ReplaceFancyPantsTerminology Guy L. Steele thinks that instead of saying "Commutative[Q,*]" we should say "OrderDoesn'tMatter[Q,*]". What.
< 1293336714 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, throw away existing, formally-defined terminology so someone doesn't have to learn something
< 1293336739 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has nothing to do with programming languages... this post is PR or something
< 1293336784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i like the fortress guys but ... what on earth made him think that
< 1293336875 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much chrismas spirit or someshing
< 1293337314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if floating point has any "useful" properties ... i.e. can you restate basic identities in them given some well-defined error term or whatever?
< 1293337335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like being able to say that a+b = b+a+error, except I'm pretty sure floating point addition is at least commutative ...
< 1293339816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Holy shit. WebTV is still marketed and sold.
< 1293339818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: As the "MSN TV".
< 1293339988 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1293340328 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1293340430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293340489 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy shit. People still buy that crap?
< 1293340709 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/U4mPS.png
< 1293340719 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rms doesn't quite give the same air as jimbo wales
< 1293340856 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1293340957 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-234-247.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293341549 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293341980 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the ashes on?
< 1293342050 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid some murderous robots from the planet Krikkit took them. Something about the "Wooden Bail"...
< 1293343543 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate floats
< 1293343553 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rational bignums ftw
< 1293343567 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIE FLOATING POINT DIE
< 1293343583 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1293343609 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I hate anyone who sees a coordinate system in the form of 0.54, fails to realize that it's internally an int that, in that example, stores 54, and decides to model it with floating point
< 1293343619 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION <3 floating point

< 1293343759 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hits Gregor with a banking program written by an idiot who used floating-point to represent currency

< 1293343774 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooooh, that's bad ...
< 1293343902 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1293343961 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-234-33.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293344418 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1293344526 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293345511 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1293345574 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293345612 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: are the ashes on
< 1293345671 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I don't know. Did you ask a question about TeXnicard after I quit earlier today?
< 1293345681 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes what is TeXnicard
< 1293345681 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293345723 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: TeXnicard is a program designed for making high-quality production quality cards such as Magic: the Gathering and so on, and also pack generation, statistics, and more.
< 1293345750 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is stats and stuff in TeX
< 1293345752 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems totally wrong
< 1293345754 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses TeX to do the typesetting, METAFONT for fonts and set symbols, and ImageMagick to put everything together and apply.
< 1293345760 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 100% totally totally wrong
< 1293345763 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cool zzo38 that sounds good
< 1293345763 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: The stats and stuff is not in TeX.
< 1293345767 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh
< 1293345774 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: basically he's trying to replace MSE
< 1293345780 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeXnicard is not written entirely in TeX. It only uses TeX for the typesetting.
< 1293345782 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knowing zzo38 it will likely not happen
< 1293345786 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if it does, <3
< 1293345923 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have actually already written much of TeXnicard already.
< 1293346039 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is already 71 pages long so far.
< 1293346061 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pages?
< 1293346065 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you measure code in pages?
< 1293346095 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes. (Note this count also include the index and table of contents)
< 1293346121 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god
< 1293346124 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you using CWEB?
< 1293346130 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I am using Enhanced CWEB.
< 1293346134 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear
< 1293346164 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Is such a thing wrong?
< 1293346319 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CWEB makes me twitch
< 1293346333 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Why?
< 1293346372 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's so focused on making documentation out of code
< 1293346391 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is usually unnecessary
< 1293346420 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're doing something wrong if you need a paragraph of text to accomplish each paragraph of code
< 1293346438 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: A paragraph of text is not necessary for most of the paragraphs of code.
< 1293346447 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sometimes it is useful to do so.
< 1293346464 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which regular comments usually do fine
< 1293346476 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, Factor separates code and docs into separate files
< 1293346502 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even for the ones without, it is useful to organize into chapters, use code chunk rearrange, index, and more things.
< 1293346511 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that I disagree with too
< 1293346532 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should really be two sorts of docs
< 1293346539 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :API docs and comments
< 1293346549 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :API docs are "how to use this piece of code"
< 1293346552 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Code and explanation is printed together in one book.
< 1293346568 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while comments let someone looking at a confusing block of code understand it
< 1293346572 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :API docs should be separate
< 1293346575 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly the explanations are about the "higher purpose" of the code.
< 1293346590 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be written as you write a book.
< 1293346590 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :putting API docs in comments and exracting them automatically is ok
< 1293346706 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally only put explanations where I think it to be necessary or if it is an interesting thing to put in the book.
< 1293346774 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enhanced CWEB has other features too, such as change files, and code generation (I used some @{ ... @} blocks for interpreted codes for code generation in this program, too)
< 1293347194 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I see with literate programming, is basically, the program is also a book. Or in other words, the book is also a computer program. It goes both ways.
< 1293347336 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even TeX itself is written in WEB!!
< 1293347503 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293347718 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, typical documentation does usually leave the super-high-level concepts out in the dust
< 1293347753 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dust?
< 1293347789 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DRIVE THEM OUT INTO THE SAHARA
< 1293347805 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: as in the coders leave it behind
< 1293347806 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in their heads
< 1293347833 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What does the Sahara have anything to do with this?
< 1293347858 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hear it's rather dusty
< 1293347895 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes. That *is* one thing you do in this book. Explain it and read it at many levels, because you can read the explanation of the "higher purpose" of each chunk (and chapter), and the cross-reference of the other chunk, too.
< 1293347915 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I still believe CWEB is overkill
< 1293347941 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: That is OK, you don't have to use it. I use it, though.
< 1293347944 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k
< 1293347955 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:09:29  http://projectfortress.sun.com/Projects/Community/blog/ReplaceFancyPantsTerminology Guy L. Steele thinks that instead of saying "Commutative[Q,*]" we should say "OrderDoesn'tMatter[Q,*]". What.
< 1293347960 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:11:54  yes, throw away existing, formally-defined terminology so someone doesn't have to learn something
< 1293347978 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also imprecise, since "order doesn't matter" would tend to imply associativity as well
< 1293347982 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hello oerjan
< 1293347990 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1293348009 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is so stupid sometimes

< 1293348022 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to do 4 chapters in one night, then 7 page essay the following day
< 1293348035 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, just finished one of the chapters, at any rate
< 1293348068 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am finally learning haskell ^_^
< 1293348072 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still have class
< 1293348120 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, the grades are due in by Tuesday, the professor saidn "Can you get in the review questions and a final paper by Sunday?"
< 1293348121 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : are the ashes on?
< 1293348140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suddenly half the channel seems to be interested in cricket...
< 1293348149 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: where the hell are you in school
< 1293348166 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it might help me with my mathematics
< 1293348177 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're in the land of disregarding the establishment clause, right?
< 1293348180 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no more classes, classes ended last week I think, no, that was finals week I think
< 1293348201 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1293348210 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my school has a rule against assignments in exams
< 1293348220 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually complaining doesn't do much because they make it due earlier
< 1293348239 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, there's something you're not grasping: All of this stuff was due over the course of the semester.
< 1293348241 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would probably actually work if you tried it now given that classes ended three weeks ago
< 1293348245 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh
< 1293348248 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're just an idiot
< 1293348254 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, yes.
< 1293348264 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k the
< 1293348313 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is like suddenly not showing up to class for half a semester, then trying to do all the homework and exams in a fixed time period...... and putting THOSE off until well beyond reason
< 1293348326 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm never taking an online class again.
< 1293348614 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.12/20101026210630]
< 1293348636 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo what happened?
< 1293348658 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, I stopped even looking at the online course for a few months
< 1293348665 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1293348677 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :were you fed up or juts thought it wasn't necessary?
< 1293348701 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, because. I was overdue with one thing, and it sort of snowballed. And yeah, I may have been a bit cocky, come to think of it. Usually, in my mind, "computer course" == "easy A"
< 1293348728 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw that sucks, what is the course about?
< 1293348751 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cryptography and Computer Security
< 1293348757 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, this question looks fun
< 1293348795 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :If you do not have access to IRC, then please do not read this notice. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1293348823 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hey, think of the poor log readers! 
< 1293348958 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cryptography is an actual science
< 1293348976 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you have to weigh up advantages and stuff
< 1293349013 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly based partly on unproved conjectures
< 1293349027 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Organizations may be willing to pay more for security products if the perceived risk is high, even if it�s completely off the mark from the actual risk. For instance, currently, in the U.S., a lot of money is being spent on controversial back-scatter machines for airports. It is unclear that the machines are effective, however, in the minds of many, the risk of terrorist attack outweights the risk of automobile accidents, although the latt
< 1293349028 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er claim many more lives, and might be a more worthwhile thing to invest against (depending on what can be invested on to prevent such accidents with effectiveness)."
< 1293349030 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry
< 1293349040 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm not forming my ideas coherently anymore
< 1293349112 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you find a proof, counterexample, or proof that there is no proof?
< 1293349131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: was that a response to me?
< 1293349146 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or proof of the opposite, even though you can find no counterexample?
< 1293349152 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Partially, yes.
< 1293349156 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's based on evidence rather than mathematical proof
< 1293349222 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: one _might_.  finding a proof would require proving the P!=NP conjecture.
< 1293349272 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the opposite might be somewhat weaker
< 1293349380 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while there is no actual proof of P!=NP yet, there are some results that imply the "easy" methods of complexity theory cannot work to resolve it
< 1293349423 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always wanted to learn those theorems
< 1293349434 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think it would take years though..
< 1293349456 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are statements like that about fermats last thoerem and four color thoerem? I think
< 1293349475 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't heard about those...
< 1293349486 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that's my imagination
< 1293349512 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were of course many false leads, which might vaguely be interpreted as such theorems
< 1293349569 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there such a thing as a proof that there is no proof that there is a proof of such a theorem?
< 1293349639 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wooo!
< 1293349644 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 chapters down, 2 to go
< 1293349665 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't even read the chapter, just the questions :/
< 1293349675 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I mentioned computing even once... oh, I did
< 1293349680 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Railed against the Cloud a bit
< 1293349681 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: probably.  there are some restrictions though.  for example if you proved that there was no disproof of fermat's last theorem, then you would have proved it... this is because there is an explicit, if non-terminating algorithm to find any counterexample.
< 1293349722 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and proofs that there are no proof need to be conditional on the consistency of the system, to avoid godel's theorems
< 1293349728 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: O, I guess you are right! That would work. A counterexample is a disproof.
< 1293349756 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Ah, you must be right about that too.
< 1293349811 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many years before IRC did Hofstadter write the GEB book?
< 1293349885 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC is from 1988 and GEB was published in 1979
< 1293349903 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come it's popular now?
< 1293349909 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says wikipedia
< 1293349994 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1293350017 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 page paper. Written on lack of sleep. It's going to be fun on a bun
< 1293350171 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1293350229 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: just hope you don't wake up and discover it consists only of repetitions of "All work and no play makes Seth a dull boy"
< 1293350271 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-109.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293350331 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1293350381 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, it will be glad that it doesn't say that! (It says "Jack" instead of "Seth")
< 1293350399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1293350400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293350451 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in any case i'm sure his paper will set a shining example
< 1293350498 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Do you think he has enough shiny ink?
< 1293350504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I watched that movie a long time ago. I remember nothing about it
< 1293350514 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Watched it at a sleepover iirc
< 1293350521 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I could be hallucinating
< 1293350540 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there was also The Excorcist, which I declined to watch, and some stupid movie about Martians
< 1293350558 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've only ever been to one sleepover in my life, so
< 1293350563 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except on a class trip
< 1293350567 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm rambling
< 1293350614 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supposedly, I didn't eat on that trip
< 1293350655 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I could be misremembering someone screaming about that at me, my memory of the trip itself is hazy
< 1293350659 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it was an evil camp where they starved children.  got it.
< 1293350669 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it sounds like something I might do, but that's not reliable
< 1293350682 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, there was almost certainly food. I can just imagine myself not touching it thogh
< 1293350693 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I drank Ensure. Used to have Ensure for lunch every day
< 1293350705 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If everything is an illusion and nothing exists, do you think he definitely overpaid for his carpet, or do you think the money you used to pay for it is all hallucination?
< 1293350720 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: is that a quote?
< 1293350747 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah woody allen
< 1293350755 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: No. It is something I wrote in the margin of a book, next to a similar quote.
< 1293350801 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it could be both... even illusionary money can be a scarce resource
< 1293350821 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK.
< 1293350837 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which iiuc is all that matters to economists
< 1293350873 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact our modern money is quite close to being an illusion already
< 1293350876 0 :CoBa!~Nix@host-73-146-66-217.spbmts.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293350881 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, everything being an illusion and nothing exists, does not *make* it he definitely overpaid for his carpet, directly. It might imply such a thing *indirectly*, though.
< 1293350889 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For example, if the carpet is expensive)
< 1293350938 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i am quite sure woody allen was joking, anyway
< 1293350978 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, of course. But this quote was in a book about philosophy (along with many other things, some of which are jokes).
< 1293351060 0 :CoBa!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit:  
< 1293351777 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This philosophy also contains a recipe for some Chinese food:
< 1293351800 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 pcs. chicken, 4 pcs. preserved beancurd, some gingar, chive, salt, sugar, gourmet powder, syrup, perfune, wine.
< 1293351829 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After wash, apply the preserved beaucurd, gingar, chive, salt, monosodium, sugar, syrup, perfume, wine into the bally of chicken, sew with iron needle.
< 1293351853 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After scalded by boiling water, pour water on duck, apply the syrup on the skin.
< 1293351856 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang it with cancel.
< 1293351866 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then roast the chicken for ripe and skinn turn into gold-red colour.
< 1293352172 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Surely you are joking, Mr. Feynman!
< 1293352547 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293352552 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/idZbZm8A <- my work of yesterday
< 1293352600 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :app stored in app.txt, in binary (for example: 0000 0011, non-01 chars are ignored)
< 1293352727 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainf**k can be implemented in it so it seems turing-complete
< 1293352812 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: don't you mean s/shift/rotate/ ?
< 1293352834 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, yes i do
< 1293352851 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interpreter is not really good
< 1293352852 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it works
< 1293352855 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've tested all the commands
< 1293352874 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume those shift/rotate operations are what makes it more than a pushdown automaton in power
< 1293352904 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1293352905 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it any good
< 1293353085 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems a bit run-of-the-mill to me
< 1293353948 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3/4
< 1293354054 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3/4 what
< 1293354071 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chapters of Review Questions
< 1293354263 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000 0000 0111
< 1293354264 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1000 0001 1101 0000 1101 0111 0001 1100 0111 0001 1100 0111 1001
< 1293354271 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code to duplicate value on the top of the stack
< 1293354274 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not quite
< 1293354285 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000 0000 0111
< 1293354285 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1000 0001 1101 0000 1101 0111 0001 1100 0111 0001 1100 0110 0110 1001
< 1293354333 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll have to work on it
< 1293354899 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000 0000 0110 0110
< 1293354899 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1000 0001 1101 0000 1101 0111 0001 1100 0111 0001 1100 0110 0110 1001
< 1293354901 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, fixed
< 1293354905 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first line is initalization
< 1293354910 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second line is copy
< 1293354920 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're left with two values, counting from the top of the stack they're 0, 2, 2
< 1293355003 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If we think of documentation as a written work of nonfiction (or, perhaps, fiction)"
< 1293355105 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it seems a bit run-of-the-mill to me
< 1293355112 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that inspired me for a name for my esolang
< 1293355114 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293355116 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stackmill
< 1293355204 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable = "I am too tired to actually think of anything creative here";
< 1293355207 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/FADctGjY
< 1293355232 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, ?
< 1293355253 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My way of both saying hi and trying and failing to be humorous
< 1293355265 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, variable == "I don't like being googled'
< 1293355270 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Hi
< 1293355313 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/R1ydyMJ8 --> does anyone see anything wrong with this implementation of brainfuck ?
< 1293355326 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I wasn't saying you weren't creative
< 1293355329 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was saying I was
< 1293355338 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am doing half a semester's worth of homework in one night
< 1293355341 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable i don't think so
< 1293355345 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry http://codepad.org/7jjWZ8QN
< 1293355351 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could keep a stack of instruction pointers for the [...]
< 1293355356 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would speed it up A LOT
< 1293355368 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, yeah - but it would complicate the code :-)
< 1293355372 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1293355388 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, problem is .. its Not Working for any code with []s
< 1293355390 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don'
< 1293355393 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't see why
< 1293355408 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what class?
< 1293355420 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cryptography and Computer Security
< 1293355433 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, fun - the best class :-)
< 1293355453 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, unless you screw up like I have and don't do any work for a few months
< 1293355475 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, do you see anything wrong with my [ and ] implementation ?
< 1293355487 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, ha
< 1293355527 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: the test for ] should be != 0, not == 0
< 1293355546 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable i am busy porting my stackmill interp to the GBA
< 1293355548 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stackmill is my own esolang
< 1293355573 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh woops. that was a copy/paste error ;-)
< 1293355635 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I knew this channel existed
< 1293355644 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hah! I'm getting more work done while in here than I ever have while forced out!
< 1293355647 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my computers are named after esoteric programming languages
< 1293355653 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your wish has been fulfilled!
< 1293355654 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie AlphaBeta Bork,
< 1293355658 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BrainFk
< 1293355659 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc
< 1293355666 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: heh
< 1293355674 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, knew != know
< 1293355716 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: wishes sometimes tend to come with uncomfortable delays
< 1293355725 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly
< 1293355753 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides not to state his sexual wishes in the channel

< 1293355784 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^even that might have been a bit much
< 1293355806 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i don't think that is very revealing
< 1293355818 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might give variable a wrong impression
< 1293355827 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, thanks for the bugfix
< 1293355842 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're welcome
< 1293355842 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now.. to see if I make it just as simple... without the stack/programsize limitation \
< 1293355931 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,[.,] --> cat in brainfuck  :-)
< 1293356018 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show cat
< 1293356018 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,[.,]
< 1293356035 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our "echo" command is a bit on the whimsical side.
< 1293356038 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo Hello?
< 1293356038 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello? Hello?
< 1293356043 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-|
< 1293356046 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help
< 1293356046 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ; ^def   ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
< 1293356051 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^code
< 1293356054 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source
< 1293356054 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
< 1293356060 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always forget which one it is.
< 1293356066 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-)
< 1293356088 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should rewrite it in INTERCAL
< 1293356111 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing that'd be a good idea if that someone were paid by line.
< 1293356138 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Say something insightful this time?
< 1293356139 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and the blots are removed from that player loses one blue vc. a unique instance of a
< 1293356141 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1293356142 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora* alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
< 1293356144 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc
< 1293356144 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
< 1293356154 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: The agora style isn't very insightful.
< 1293356155 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what language? answered my question already
< 1293356212 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you don't know of Agora?
< 1293356238 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, blots are OLD
< 1293356243 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oldie oldie old
< 1293356246 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I do, but it stil doesn't make that very insightful.
< 1293356272 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, the model was built out of some sort of a collection of both current and historical rules.
< 1293356375 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its 430 AM
< 1293356381 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has NO idea why I'm up

< 1293356777 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1293356888 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-227.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293358056 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1293359368 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1293359375 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ported my interpreter to GBA
< 1293359378 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and found a bug in libgba's printf
< 1293359385 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i had to use an itoa
< 1293360305 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libgba ?
< 1293360311 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :game boy advanced/
< 1293360318 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also -> what bug?
< 1293361400 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293361470 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf("%d",i) for i values over 9 breaks
< 1293365374 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293369317 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293369377 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : printf("%d",i) for i values over 9 breaks
< 1293369396 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone thought %d was for "digit"? :D
< 1293369599 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, hm... reported the bug?
< 1293369676 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, hm is it a freestanding or a hosted environment?
< 1293369681 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the C sense)
< 1293369709 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quoting C99: "A conforming freestanding implementation shall accept any strictly conforming program that does not use complex types and in which the use of the features specified in the library clause (clause 7) is confined to the contents of the standard headers , , , , , , and . "
< 1293369733 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notably this does not include stdio.h
< 1293369807 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure, but I *think* this means that *iff* it is a freestanding implementation, then it can do what the hell it wants in stdio.h, including making demons fly out of your nose.
< 1293369830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err wait no
< 1293369856 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A conforming implementation may have extensions (including additional library functions), provided they do not alter the behavior of any strictly conforming program³⁾"
< 1293369897 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"³⁾ This implies that a conforming implementation reserves no identifiers other than those explicitly reserved in this International Standard."
< 1293369906 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293369939 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that last bit is not in the bit that is specifically about freestanding
< 1293369950 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm not sure how you should interpret it
< 1293370068 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atm I'm tying to figure out this statement: "A program that is correct in all other aspects, operating on correct data, containing unspecified behavior shall be a correct program and act in accordance with 5.1.2.3."
< 1293370212 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal
< 1293370213 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about the bug
< 1293370221 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only happens in the best GBA emulator available, NO$GBA
< 1293370227 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't happen on the worse emulators (VisualBoyAdvance)
< 1293370228 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the real thing
< 1293370255 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw, of those headers required in a freestanding environment, only stdarg.h and float.h are non-trivial.)
< 1293370269 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, maybe it isn't the best emulator then
< 1293370340 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, it seems float.h is trivial too)
< 1293370926 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal sadly it is
< 1293370931 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it implements the most features and quirks
< 1293370933 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of all emulators
< 1293370956 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has a debugger (paid, though)
< 1293370961 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is recommended by most homebrew devers
< 1293371047 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293371073 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293372712 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Errr... What does printf("%d",i) do if i is 10 on that platform?
< 1293372833 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it prints 10
< 1293372833 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously
< 1293372840 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on GBA with the NO$GBA emulator
< 1293372846 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is the best emulator for it)
< 1293372848 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it crashes the machinr
< 1293372850 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :machine*
< 1293372911 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figured out what instruction inside printf crashes it?
< 1293373122 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't care
< 1293373127 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does not happen on the real thing
< 1293373128 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's OK
< 1293373153 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i've just found a custom itoa function for that
< 1293373944 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1293374078 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293374507 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-belc2-0-0-cust756.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293374522 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, everybody!
< 1293374682 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey
< 1293375068 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1293375103 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while it is quite easy to write a Makefile that fails with -j2 or such, I wonder if you can write one that fails *without* -j2.
< 1293375120 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that works reliably with -j2
< 1293375143 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if you only wanted to make it work *sometimes* with -j2, and never without -j it would be rather trivial.
< 1293376077 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How could such makefile even be constructed? It would have to contain race condition or unstated dependency...
< 1293376288 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that kind of stuff tends to make it nondeterministic...
< 1293376376 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Unless the executables do some bizarre stuff...
< 1293376404 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then the makefile would probably lock up if run without -j2...
< 1293376475 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293376542 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, well it could build and run an executable that checked /proc// for command line
< 1293376552 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheating though
< 1293376703 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Stackmill
< 1293378301 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, has ineiros updated the server yet?
< 1293378611 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, as far as I know it worked yesterday morning yes
< 1293378627 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and, I just died.
< 1293378629 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In lava.
< 1293378634 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With my full inventory.
< 1293378637 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to a bug.
< 1293378640 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Effing Notch.
< 1293378846 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the advice I was given by the intel-gfx people to fix my graphics drivers has resulted in them being stupid with normal-maps.
< 1293379357 0 :sftp_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293379826 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, was the bug exiting a minecraft by breaking it?
< 1293379836 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, yes.
< 1293379844 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1293379863 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, you been away, ehird complained about it too
< 1293379910 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, wrote guide for how to get a h8300-hitachi-hms cross toolchain working on modern Linux.
< 1293379918 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anyone needs that I could upload it somewhere
< 1293379939 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you need quite a few patches to make it build and work on recent systems)
< 1293379984 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people who might care: Anyone who has a Lego RCX and want to write C code for it (custom firmware).
< 1293380774 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway http://sporksirc.net/~anmaster/lego/rcx-toolchain-guide/guide.html
< 1293381061 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293381270 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hi
< 1293381283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1293381285 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, where did that happen btw?
< 1293381293 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, an MC bug ate my inventory!
< 1293381294 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I think removing the lava below might help
< 1293381308 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he is talking about the hitting minecraft bug
< 1293381325 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, erm... IIRC it was the subtree end of the subtree-crossroads link.
< 1293381337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The spawn is a lie.
< 1293381343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, it's happened to me. Several times.
< 1293381348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Get out of your cart before hitting it, it's all that helps.
< 1293381357 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, crossroad being the tunnel to fizzie's?
< 1293381364 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, yes.
< 1293381366 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1293381732 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it so laggy
< 1293381752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoover Heavy Industries accepts no responsibility for anyone who is heavy, or industrious. That is all.
< 1293381773 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293381781 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, are you behind the lagginess?
< 1293381798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect the server is torrenting.
< 1293381806 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293381808 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is down now
< 1293381816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or else the beta is really so bad that three people is too much work.
< 1293381825 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-91-192.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293381826 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in other news, the Xorg Intel graphics developers have failed me!
< 1293381827 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros_, what is going on?
< 1293381846 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, were you doing something strange when it went down?
< 1293381849 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or PH)
< 1293381857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No.
< 1293381861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Stop asking.
< 1293381877 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, I was heading northwards, towards ineiros..
< 1293381885 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the hell is that thing.
< 1293381889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If it were an HHI activity, it would be secret anyway, so there is no point in asking; but lagging the server is not good for business, so that is extremely unlikely.)
< 1293381891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What thing.
< 1293381897 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The crenellated wall, with torches.
< 1293381901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Pic?
< 1293381905 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was looking at it when the server failed
< 1293381918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pic would be nice :P
< 1293381928 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't have one, but if you went towards ineiros' fortress from spawn you'd've seen it.
< 1293383858 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293383873 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fizzie: mcmap bug report: planting a sapling: "[DIED] protocol.c: 361: Unknown packet id: 0x40 (dir 2)"
< 1293383878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm
< 1293383879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1293383894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't dig into the protocol stuff mostly; fizzie's your man there.
< 1293383903 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah oka[DIED] protocol.c: 361: Unknown packet id: 0x40 (dir 2)y
< 1293383904 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah
< 1293383910 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION STABS SYNERGY

< 1293383914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oka[DIED] protocol.c: 361: Unknown packet id: 0x40 (dir 2)y yourself.
< 1293383919 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay was what I said
< 1293383924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Have you tried that maintained fork of Synergy?
< 1293383924 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then I got a pseduo-paste
< 1293383932 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, I probably should
< 1293383934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Synergy+ and Synergy have now combined efforts. Visit the new Synergy website."
< 1293383935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1293383943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://synergy-foss.org/
< 1293383954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Synergy+ and Synergy have now merged! However, we'll still be using the old synergy-plus source code repository and mailing lists (just because there's no reason to migrate away). For those of you who are new: Synergy+ was started by Sorin Sbârnea and Nick Bolton in 2009 for the purpose of fixing bugs in the original version by Chris Schoeneman (which had temporarily paused development in 2006). Synergy+ and original Synergy have now combined e
< 1293383954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fforts for the benefit of the Open Source community."
< 1293383961 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I use whatever is called synergy on in the package repo. And since one is ubuntu the other arch then it might cause issues
< 1293383973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Try http://synergy-foss.org/packages/?C=M;O=D.
< 1293383982 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah, will shortly
< 1293383996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Debian squeeze appears to still have old-Synergy, and links to the website which now says "lol go here instead".
< 1293383997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So heh.
< 1293384389 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293384923 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recovered my laptop from the idiotic hoard.
< 1293384926 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hoarde
< 1293386275 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-91-192.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293386346 0 :Leonidas_!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293386513 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293386513 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1293386514 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu
< 1293387107 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293387149 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-91-192.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293387512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: They... took your laptop? And you didn't immediately kill them?
< 1293387530 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, since I would have got in trouble for that.
< 1293387548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Vorpal: Look at this: http://i.imgur.com/YF0nLl.jpg
< 1293387549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See sign.
< 1293387553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SEEMS IT'S A KNOWN BUG
< 1293387556 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I locked the screen before I gave in, so they couldn't do anything.
< 1293387564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notch Quality Engineering
< 1293387595 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but how did they manage to get stuff into it?
< 1293387609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Dig into it, make space, put things there.
< 1293387620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Or, no, wait.
< 1293387624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm fairly sure that's a real hole.
< 1293387636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disguised as an imaginary one.
< 1293387640 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, haha
< 1293387653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hey! I made it last night :) I'm glad people enjoy it. I'ts supposed to look like a chunk error."
< 1293387654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1293387787 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why did you loose connection? server said it was due to disconnect.genericReason on his side
< 1293387795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I closed the game :P
< 1293387800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without disconnecting first.
< 1293387801 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how?
< 1293387802 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293387812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCJeUvqFuA0.
< 1293387819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The music was getting in the way.
< 1293387983 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he has an issue, all won't go off at once (you need something like redstone activation to get all to start counting down at once)
< 1293388008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Doesn't matter, it worked anyway (and impressive result)
< 1293388016 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone have a convenient link to a rant on the "This page is best viewed with ." things you see everywhere?
< 1293388020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You'll notice a familiar figure when he reconnects :P
< 1293388029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://www.anybrowser.org/campaign/
< 1293388086 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the explosion was cool
< 1293388117 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the water in minecraft it not realistic
< 1293388156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: you can generate infinite water from a 2x2 pool
< 1293388159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of PHYSICS!
< 1293388177 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what's the familiar figure?
< 1293388184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like the statue of liberty :P
< 1293388191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was intentional but maybe not.
< 1293388196 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: You'll notice a familiar figure when he reconnects :P <-- hm?
< 1293388200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See above.
< 1293388224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "Obsidian is banned because it takes too long to destroy" "Fire is banned because it can crash clients" "Lava is banned because it can lag the server." "Water is banned because it can lag the server." "Ice is banned because it creates water when destroyed" "TNT is banned because it lags the server."
< 1293388233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Reddit Minecraft server -- you can, like, put GRASS and WOOD and COBBLES down!
< 1293388272 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they're a public, high-visibility server.
< 1293388280 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What'd you *expect*?
< 1293388281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: They've /banned water/.
< 1293388289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never seen that before.
< 1293388328 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but what about natural water and lava?
< 1293388338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: DON'T LOOK AT IT
< 1293388345 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did they remove it?
< 1293388350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it :P
< 1293388356 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl
< 1293388366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Can I expand the HHI research facility?
< 1293388378 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine.
< 1293388400 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Provided there are no externally-visible alterations to Mt. Hoover
< 1293388409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: There won't be. Well, unless I accidentally dig to the outside.
< 1293389620 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh geez you have to play minecraft in browser...
< 1293389648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: um no
< 1293389653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: just download the .jar
< 1293389662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody plays in browser ... partly because nothign works with it
< 1293389666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even think you can use texture packs in-browser
< 1293389671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://minecraft.net/download/Minecraft.jar?v=1293389628306
< 1293389687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's if you've paid ofc
< 1293389691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :classic is browser-only
< 1293389716 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1293389721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1293389735 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to buy it, I don't even know if it works
< 1293389752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: pirate it and see? :p
< 1293389761 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::S
< 1293389773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: it does work though ...
< 1293389777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least on debian and i know plenty of players on ubuntu
< 1293389797 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just, I was trying it in browser. No wonder /that/ doesn't work
< 1293389818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean Classic in browser?
< 1293389821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that doesn't work for me either
< 1293389824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just get a black screen
< 1293389826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alpha works perfectly though
< 1293389866 0 :ineiros_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need the Sun's (still can't get myself to say Oracle's) JVM for it to work.
< 1293389874 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "perfectly" is a relative term.
< 1293389888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros_: I use OpenJDK.
< 1293389891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros_: So, nope.
< 1293389894 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Notch" and "perfectly" are not words which fit comfortably together.
< 1293389896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, for it = ClassiC?
< 1293389897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Classic?
< 1293389901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alpha works with OpenJDK for me at least.
< 1293389905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Faster than Whoracle's.
< 1293389913 0 :ineiros_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Whoa, you got it to work with that?
< 1293389939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros_: Yes. It didn't work at first, but now it does and it's faster than Sun's./
< 1293389968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros_: http://sprunge.us/GJET Those are my packages (on Debian testing).
< 1293389987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My launch script:
< 1293389990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/sh
< 1293389990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exec java -Xmx2048M -Xms1024M -cp "$(dirname "$0")/launcher.jar" net.minecraft.LauncherFrame
< 1293389998 0 :ineiros_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, being faster is no surprise. But at least the previous versions didn't work. I have to try that when I get my new system.
< 1293390002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros_: I think maybe you have to use Sun the first time and then it works.
< 1293390013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros_: Like, maybe the initial log-in only works with Sunnnnnnnn's.
< 1293390090 0 :p_q!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-1167928546.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293390180 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-8-200.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293390230 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293390301 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293390346 0 :Leonidas_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Leonidas
< 1293391007 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293391873 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[Wrong language. It's a shame for me that C isn't used so much these days for applications.]]
< 1293391881 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—An idiot.
< 1293391893 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that the wrong language is Objective-C.
< 1293392545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Context?
< 1293392711 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3216&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
< 1293392739 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the many threads where someone turns up to the Oolite boards and says "Hey, let's make this an MMO!"
< 1293392830 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except this time the very well-founded reasons for not doing so are shrugged aside, and the person ploughs on regardless.
< 1293392911 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Highlights include the word "fidicurially".
< 1293392971 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~nice@p5B14C2AC.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293393054 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1293393112 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, as far as I can tell "fidicurially" is not a word, does it context let you figure out the intended meaning of it? (If so: what is it?)
< 1293393134 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, he meant "fiduciary".
< 1293393164 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, a word I have to admit I'm not familiar with either
< 1293393167 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks it up

< 1293393176 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monetary?
< 1293393191 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English: the Perl of human languages.
< 1293393214 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: thoughts on functor equality?
< 1293393218 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a person who holds assets in trust for a beneficiary; "it is illegal for a fiduciary to misappropriate money for personal gain""
< 1293393219 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293393259 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I have no doubt there are weird words like this in Swedish too, some that I know, some that I don't
< 1293393268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: does it work? if so it's good :P
< 1293393271 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so a functor F:C-->D maps objects of C into D like X:C |- FX : D, but also maps maps like f : X --> Y |- Ff : FX --> FY
< 1293393305 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I did manage to define it earlier but the proof is horrific. Hoping to simplify it
< 1293393340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be nice
< 1293393394 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this time I define it like F = F' when we have an isomorphism i between FX and F'X, and (dependent pair) Ff . pi1 iso Y = pi1 iso X . F'f
< 1293393453 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://coq.pastebin.com/nFRZJ7cR
< 1293393492 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: even with the proof machine on my side it's not looking good :/ line 580
< 1293393583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that looks scary
< 1293393673 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, aaaaaaa
< 1293394046 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293394100 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, what are you trying to prove today?
< 1293394139 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros_, elliott: is the server about to be hmodified or has it recently been?
< 1293394158 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I just want to show that '=' is an equivalence relation
< 1293394183 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, doesn't coq has that in the its standard library or such?
< 1293394191 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's my own definition
< 1293394233 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, how does the standard library do then?
< 1293394236 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it*
< 1293394257 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use that library here
< 1293394461 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros_: I've used OpenJDK and OpenJDK only, and I've actually told you this.
< 1293394494 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, yeah but is it as messy as the way you do it?
< 1293394507 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well not sure it is messy, but you seemed to imply that)
< 1293394519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's a totally different structure. so.
< 1293394521 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw saw what I said above about mcmap crashing on placing a sapling?
< 1293394522 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah
< 1293394542 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1293394592 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to prove Ff o fgX = fgY o Gf, Gf o ghY = ghX o Hf |- Ff o (fgY o ghY) = (fgX o ghX) o Hf
< 1293394641 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first step is to change the goal into (Ff o fgY) o ghY = fgX o (ghX o Hf). Then you can use the hypothesis
< 1293394778 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, been away. I'll take a look at some point, still more christmasy things to do first though.
< 1293394814 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293394992 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x40 is not a (wiki-)known packet type, so it probably has just gotten desynchronized again.
< 1293395000 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a decision producedure that does rewrites, not just associativity
< 1293395006 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :)
< 1293395006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I think I have a better structure for algebraic things now.
< 1293395012 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh neat
< 1293395013 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it work?
< 1293395017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definition is_ring S plus plus0 times times1 :=
< 1293395017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  is_pseudo_ring S plus plus0 times /\
< 1293395017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  is_monoid S times times1.
< 1293395018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that
< 1293395033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then e.g. integers are the ring (Z,+,0,*,1)
< 1293395056 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could work actually
< 1293395110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, unfortunately I think there may be one issue
< 1293395117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definition is_pseudo_ring S plus plus0 times :=
< 1293395117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  is_abelian_group S plus plus0 /\
< 1293395117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  is_semigroup S times.
< 1293395118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definition is_ring S plus plus0 times times1 :=
< 1293395118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  is_pseudo_ring S plus plus0 times /\
< 1293395118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  is_monoid S times times1.
< 1293395124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might have to prove (S,*) is a semigroup /twice/
< 1293395126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of that
< 1293395127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe not
< 1293395217 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about having
< 1293395240 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definition is_pseduo_ring S plus plus0 times semigroupPrf := is_abelian_group S plus plus0.
< 1293395294 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, you could just have   is_pseudo_ring ... := True.  because it takes both proofs as arguments
< 1293395315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: nah, because
< 1293395320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: then you have to do "eapply"
< 1293395322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't really work
< 1293395324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is much easier to prove
< 1293395325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also,
< 1293395325 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm...
< 1293395328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theorem Z_ring : is_ring Z Zplus 0%Z Zmult 1%Z.
< 1293395334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then having is_ring -> is_lower_thing
< 1293395336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is much nicer to do IMO
< 1293395340 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1293395356 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, if it got desynced... well I was just working on my tree farm before
< 1293395369 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cutting down trees and so on
< 1293395391 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also I believe PH just parted a second before or so. I don't know if he rejoined again
< 1293395396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: man, omega can't prove (a*b*c) = (a*(b*c)) in Z
< 1293395397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how stupid si that
< 1293395398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is
< 1293395493 0 :calamari!~calamari@206.29.188.191 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293395498 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1293395574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1293395581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: http://sprunge.us/ECba includes (really simple!) proof that stdlib Z is a ring
< 1293395607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: erm it's duplicatd
< 1293395610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: just cut everything after Qed.
< 1293395754 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"...[I]n 1902, the American company Hamilton Beach patented the first electric vibrator available for retail sale, making the vibrator the fifth domestic appliance to be electrified, after the sewing machine, fan, tea kettle, and toaster, and about a decade before the vacuum cleaner and electric iron."
< 1293395904 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong channel?
< 1293395916 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or was it completely out of any context?)
< 1293395937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't pasting things without context a CHANNEL TRADITION.
< 1293395939 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/out of/without/
< 1293395956 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm true
< 1293395986 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw if seems a sapling can grow if you stand on it, and you will suffocate then.
< 1293395997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1293396025 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have not yet hit that myself, but saw it on the wiki. Makes me a bit nervous about my tree farm
< 1293396112 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this equivalence of functors is just not working
< 1293396584 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: omega the ordinal number?  What does it mean for an ordinal number to prove a statement?
< 1293396603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Omega the tactic.
< 1293396666 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.  Is it supposed to be a tactic that figures stuff out automatically?
< 1293396723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Yes. :p
< 1293396732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I forget the exact solver it uses.
< 1293397546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I think I have up to integral domains
< 1293398249 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah try fields
< 1293398297 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: see eq_functors_lemma1 and 2. http://coq.pastebin.com/HRiZqtC9
< 1293398306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh yeah try fields
< 1293398308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT RIGHT NOW :D
< 1293398310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much pain
< 1293398320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that first lemma is the ... wow.
< 1293398328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second is even more wow.
< 1293398346 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just copy the proof state and turn it into a lemma
< 1293398377 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are very simple theorems, it's just proving them takes a lot of effort and typing..
< 1293398407 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if I had a decision procedure that took equations of the form  fg = id  into account :(
< 1293398422 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I don't think it would handle these
< 1293398537 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but programming a solver that takes inverses into account is probably really hard
< 1293398568 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1293398587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: you can make a lot of effort now and have it easy later ... or you can continually make a lot of slightly milder effort forever ... i usually do the latter :-)
< 1293398605 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293398612 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'm not even sure if throwing in inverses is still decidible
< 1293398621 0 :invariable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293398626 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293398697 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293398722 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293398728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: stop varying your name
< 1293398752 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I can't help it
< 1293398754 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-)
< 1293398760 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is variable 

< 1293398783 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe Knuth-Bendix
< 1293398791 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know much about Knuth-Bendix
< 1293398936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: you haven't been here before have you? hi
< 1293399010 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I would hope I've been here before - you couldn't program without me :-)
< 1293399020 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: hi
< 1293399023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Sure you can!
< 1293399028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Joy is Turing-complete.
< 1293399040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically it has top-level function definitions but you don't /need/ them.
< 1293399045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: BCT, also, has no variables.
< 1293399053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, Brainfuck doesn't... but you could consider tape cells variables.
< 1293399058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*brainfuck
< 1293399064 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googles

< 1293399071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: http://esolangs.org/wiki/BCT :)
< 1293399094 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, BCT would be my next computer.... (my computer names are esoteric programming languages)
< 1293399112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? Ha
< 1293399119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And over here we have brainfuck..."
< 1293399172 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far I have AlphaBeta, Babbage, and ByteByte :-)
< 1293399203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: say hi to variable
< 1293399204 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i was doing hw instructions would be and., and in the alternative syntax for c
< 1293399892 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: help!
< 1293399970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: ?
< 1293400029 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joy has no variab.. hmm, I guess that makes sense. Factor's variables are conveniences
< 1293400041 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye
< 1293400048 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should learn Joy
< 1293400066 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Joy doesn't exist
< 1293400069 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learning Factor might have been like learning an impure language instead of haskell for a first functional language
< 1293400072 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joy isn't esoteric
< 1293400077 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, down?
< 1293400088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no
< 1293400105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joy_%28programming_language%29
< 1293400109 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: try Underload for the esoteric version :)
< 1293400109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: http://www.latrobe.edu.au/philosophy/phimvt/joy.html
< 1293400111 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I need a way to prove these lemmas quickly
< 1293400114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underload, yeah
< 1293400119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: no idea, sorry :(
< 1293400145 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, Joy syntax is ugly to my eyes
< 1293400177 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'm just having an immediate knee-jerk reaction
< 1293400182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joy is wonderful.
< 1293400182 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to go AFK for a bit
< 1293400192 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (12)S(*a(~:)~*^~):((1)S)~*~((2)S:*)~*:(~:()~)~*^(a(:^)*~a(*()~)~*^~^):^
< 1293400194 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :122112122122112112212112122112112122122112122121121122122112122122112112122121122122112122122112112212112122122112112122112112212112112212211212212112212212112112212211212212112112212112122112112122121122122112122122112112122112112212212112122112112212112112212212112122112112122122112122121121122122121122122112122122112112 ...too much output!
< 1293400199 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros_, what the heck is going on with your connection?
< 1293400205 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't need two concatenative languages competing for my heart
< 1293400208 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and presumably also joyful
< 1293400251 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: maybe some way to extend the prover
< 1293400314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You'd hate Joy, it doesn't have aaaaaaaaaaaany libraries at all.
< 1293400341 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither does LSL. Oh wait, I hate LSL (but for different reasons)
< 1293400361 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that is an issue with LSL, come to think of it
< 1293400490 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (0)S((0)(1))(~:^:S*a~^~*a*~:^):^
< 1293400490 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010010110100110010110011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010011001011001101001100101101001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010010110100110010110011010011001011010010110011010010110 ...too much output!
< 1293400507 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIL that The Blue Valley has named parts
< 1293400517 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid&query=37685
< 1293400563 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what program is good for playing s3m files?
< 1293400577 0 :ineiros_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I may have used the connection again. Maybe I should try to setup some connection priorization at some point.
< 1293400583 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUn9SYdPF4A&feature=related is the same thing fwiw
< 1293400594 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But um... hm
< 1293400596 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VLC?
< 1293400659 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O http://www.aufgang.org/koch/homepage/music.asp
< 1293401054 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros_, well it seems completely lag spiky atm
< 1293401150 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros_, maybe you should give backup bulk priority or something?
< 1293401173 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros_, I'm giving up on mining obsidian atm
< 1293401195 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, xmp is one sensible app for s3m files.
< 1293401204 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some values of sensible.
< 1293401207 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros_, connection lost
< 1293401215 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mikmod player is pretty horrible.
< 1293401359 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VLC plays with ModPlug-derived code, I think.
< 1293401409 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros_, tell me when it is up?
< 1293401419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Or just wait.
< 1293401436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : o.O http://www.aufgang.org/koch/homepage/music.asp
< 1293401437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1293401510 0 :ineiros_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be up now.
< 1293402507 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ashes is on
< 1293402644 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: what are the rules
< 1293402966 0 :chickenzilla!~chicken@olol.eu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293404192 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would a .xm file be 30 MB?
< 1293404210 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0_0
< 1293404230 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone is using lots of very large samples
< 1293404255 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it's only 4 MB, not sure what happened there
< 1293404259 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I just misread it
< 1293405041 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ2BcvowYl8
< 1293405052 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets AW nostalgia issues from seeing the stone path

< 1293405087 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's not a play of the plot of Legend of Zelda?
< 1293405088 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh
< 1293405210 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the music
< 1293405219 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, agreed
< 1293407261 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it was 30 megabits? That's close-ish to 4 MB.
< 1293407268 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1293408145 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1293408236 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293408540 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293408714 0 :chickenzilla!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1293409304 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1293409911 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"J � It is unbeatable if you have RSI and need to type as little characters as possible for a task that can be applied to a whole array."
< 1293410022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha ha it's funny because J programs are short?
< 1293410134 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.rfc1149.net/blog/2010/12/09/something-nice-about-every-language-i-use/
< 1293410148 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha ha, it's the best thing the person could come up with to say about J
< 1293410245 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I should learn Ada
< 1293410626 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The experienced C programmer will probably be a bit frustrated with the attention to details required by the Ada compiler. You will not have your favorite "tricks" available to fool the compiler into doing something out of the ordinary. The Ada compiler cannot be fooled."
< 1293411036 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1293411159 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, some people really hate Ada
< 1293411548 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear tutorial: Do you HAVE to use a sample program with deliberately horrible style to show an example Ada program?
< 1293411552 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.infres.enst.fr/~pautet/Ada95/chap02.htm
< 1293411557 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.infres.enst.fr/~pautet/Ada95/e_c02_p1.ada
< 1293411578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think I should learn Ada
< 1293411582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1293411586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's one of the worst languages ever.
< 1293411611 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From my understanding, it's mostly syntax issues?
< 1293411627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much more than that.
< 1293411699 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does seem to have SOME supporters. Not many.
< 1293411729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got this idea that it's a good language for safety assurances
< 1293411737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The human extinction movement has supporters, so do Republicans.
< 1293411848 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vhemt.org/ whnat the fuck?
< 1293411873 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just want to decrease the number of people, not go exitinct
< 1293411897 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, some of them do want humanity to go extinct
< 1293411935 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They make a distinction between those who support extinction and those who just want to see the human population decrease significantly
< 1293411968 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh
< 1293411976 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an important difference!
< 1293411979 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They compare humanity to cancer
< 1293411988 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4369876000541116073#
< 1293412072 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About the difference: http://www.vhemt.org/ecology.htm#whyv
< 1293412089 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Q: Why extinction? Why not just get our population down to a sustainable size?
< 1293412089 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VHEMT Supporters favor this goal, while Volunteers see extinction as the only sure way to avoid breeding ourselves back to today�s density."
< 1293412248 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't really make sense to call yourself a member of Human Extinction Movement in that case :/
< 1293412715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: VHEMT is very stupid
< 1293412721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardly worth expecting consistency of them
< 1293412744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the best solution to overpopulation is lack of population!"
< 1293412780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it would (probably) leave the planet without any sentience which is /very/ stupid
< 1293412806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros_: The spawn protection area is waaay too big.
< 1293412807 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1293412809 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember on the news seeing some environmental cleanup program that was projected to take 99 years.
< 1293412812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: why what?
< 1293412817 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what VHEMT thinks of that

< 1293412839 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should earth be sentient?
< 1293412839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: why would it be bad to be without sentience, you mean?
< 1293412861 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1293412873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I hold sentience to be intrinsically valuable.
< 1293412880 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on what?
< 1293412891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: It's an axiom.
< 1293412899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's ZFC based on?
< 1293412900 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1293412920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At least "sentience is valuable" is a lot less likely to be inconsistent than ZFC...)
< 1293413087 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, if eta : F --> G is a natural transformation for functors F,G : C --> D. Then X : C |- etaX : FX --> GX
< 1293413128 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need some 'respectfulness' condition on it like  X = X' -> etaX = etaX'
< 1293413151 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293413180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i think i'm going to link to your file in #epigram and ask them what it looks like in epigram 2 >:)
< 1293413181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION troll

< 1293413190 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait let me paste it
< 1293413191 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-91-192.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293413207 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, see bug report for mcmap on mc
< 1293413359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "too much work for way too little gain"
< 1293413366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. something dereferences it and i can't figure out what because of glib :)
< 1293413369 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:28:24 [CHAT]  Woot, now it segfaults.
< 1293413369 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:28:26 [CHAT] ehird left the game.
< 1293413369 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:28:30 [CHAT]  heh
< 1293413369 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:28:48 [CHAT]  ehird quality engineering
< 1293413370 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ^
< 1293413379 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293413382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Technically it didn't segfault.
< 1293413385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just closed the map window.
< 1293413406 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the lastest http://coq.pastebin.com/cxeeG9qt
< 1293413416 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that statement still applies
< 1293413446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i can't bring myself to do it, they're too nice, the epigram folk
< 1293413611 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why would it be trolling to ask that?
< 1293413635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hehe... epigram is (sort of (kind of)) entirely vapourware ... more specifically they have an implementation but Epigram Itself: The User Language isn't on top of it yet
< 1293413677 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you would just get a "no idea yet"?
< 1293413691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: More likely "oh, go away"
< 1293413756 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-91-192.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293413756 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How simple is it to make a electronic circuit for receiving a call display information?
< 1293413864 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but I'm not sure how to define Component_respectful
< 1293413911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: heck if I know :D
< 1293413922 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1293413928 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p
< 1293413936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever used idris?
< 1293413940 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1293413959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293414095 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: The end of this sentence is false, but the beginning of it is true.
< 1293414120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION starts thinking about his old transaction type

< 1293414402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transaction ok? transformed? after-ok? result
< 1293414402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  A function -- given a world W that satisfies (ok? W), and a
< 1293414402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  continuation that takes a world s.t. (transformed? W), and a
< 1293414402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  value of type result, and returns a new world W',
< 1293414402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  s.t. (after-ok? W'), returns the new world W'.
< 1293414403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transaction (\_ -> True) (\w -> fileIsOpenInWorld? filename w) (\w -> fileIsClosedInWorld? filename w) File
< 1293414406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really ugly though ...
< 1293414411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it reduces to some elegant thing when strippe ddown
< 1293414416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*stripped down
< 1293414433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that would be the result of "openFile" given a filename)
< 1293414472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(readCharFromFile, given a filename, would look something like "Transaction (\w -> fileIsOpenInWorld? filename w) (\_ -> True) (\_ -> True) Char")
< 1293414476 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293414494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(then ofc you'd have to prove that the file is open in the world at type-checking time, which could probably be done automatically in most cases)
< 1293414549 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems pretty complicated
< 1293414549 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293414587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yeah it is but I think the "core" of it is pretty simple
< 1293414612 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that#s the important thoing
< 1293414631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: you want a certain value, and also a world which satisfies a relevant condition; to get it, you must give it a world that satisfies /its/ (the transaction's) relevant condition, and also show that the world at the end will be acceptable to it
< 1293414638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, opening a file without closing it is a type error in this system
< 1293414643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the postcondition in openFile
< 1293414658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically just "IO result" except really-overly-typed
< 1293414696 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1293414737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish oklopol would come back
< 1293414817 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-186-29.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293415075 0 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293415105 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how do you find out about VEHMT?
< 1293415119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um it's pretty well-known, dunno how i heard of it
< 1293415127 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had not heard of it
< 1293415153 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome's been acting up lately
< 1293415159 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tempted to switch back to Opera
< 1293415160 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1293415566 0 :sshc_!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293415772 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1293415896 0 :sshc_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293415961 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293416049 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1293416212 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293416306 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230231169.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293416341 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293416378 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293416384 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293416755 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1293416775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s[99],*r=s,*d,c;main(a,b){char*v=1[d=b];for(;c=*v++%93;)for(b=c&2,b=c%7?a&&(c&17?c&1?(*r+=b-1):(r+=b-1):syscall(4-!b,b,r,1),0):v;b&&c|a**r;v=d)main(!c,&a);d=v;}
< 1293416782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if this has been beaten yet.
< 1293416787 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293416794 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293417049 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293417117 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1293417122 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293417159 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293417344 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230231169.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293417429 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293417436 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it could be beaten by Haskell
< 1293417489 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably too much looping though :-/
< 1293417494 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293417518 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293417527 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: http://www.jaist.ac.jp/~hirokawa/tool/
< 1293417672 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC is a rewriting tool? news to me :p
< 1293417852 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1293417889 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293418023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Mathnerd314: http://www.jaist.ac.jp/~hirokawa/tool/
< 1293418025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that
< 1293418034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: do you know what it does, though?
< 1293418077 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like "glorious glasgow haskell compiler"...
< 1293418090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: i mean the c progam
< 1293418091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*program
< 1293418122 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obviously a brainfuck interpreter (just ask google)
< 1293418241 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1293418256 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293418424 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230231169.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293418593 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, your wonders of the world looks blown up
< 1293418621 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, was it you?
< 1293418649 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293418657 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, HUGE hole, several exhibits broken
< 1293418709 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who was that /bastard/
< 1293418720 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watching a binary counter count up is quite hypnotic
< 1293418781 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: link?
< 1293418883 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, on minecraft
< 1293418944 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION suddenly deeplinking into other people's computers

< 1293419013 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not)
< 1293419104 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1293419471 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't really vandalize other's stuff on AW!
< 1293419475 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.>
< 1293419656 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230231169.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293419804 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293420140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1293420283 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, was it you?
< 1293420285 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what I'm going to write my 7 page paper about
< 1293420289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ?
< 1293420291 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Misplaced trust
< 1293420316 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, someone blew up Deewiant's "wonders of the world"
< 1293420317 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Includes everything from SQL Injections and XSS attacks to social engineering
< 1293420330 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I suspect you or PH
< 1293420333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: o_O
< 1293420346 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no one else would do it
< 1293420355 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blew up? With an explosion, or mining it out?
< 1293420369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Was it the TNT room or something?
< 1293420379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine people blowing that up accidentally ... but then I'm me.
< 1293420387 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the TNT room. but it had a huge radius
< 1293420395 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it more or less cut the building in half
< 1293420398 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :across it
< 1293420412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure it wasn't a chunk loading error? :p
< 1293420412 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This doesn't happen in AW =P
< 1293420418 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes...
< 1293420424 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it had no straight edgers
< 1293420426 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :edges
< 1293420434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a joke.
< 1293420440 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1293420456 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, whoever it was, I suggest we all help in rebuilding the other walls at least
< 1293420463 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the rock below it
< 1293420469 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd help if I was in minecraft
< 1293420474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have some snow left.
< 1293420476 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And didn't have a 7 page paper to write
< 1293420476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll come see. :/
< 1293420480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Do you know coordinates for teleporting?
< 1293420485 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err sec
< 1293420491 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, are there any topics in computer security that don't come down to misplaced trust?
< 1293420491 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, armour-friendly or near?
< 1293420503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Near.
< 1293420513 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-717, 928
< 1293420520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Starting MC ...
< 1293420521 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Protecting from natural disasters I guess. Or could that be "Misplaced trust in God" >.>
< 1293420540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reflections on Trusting Trusting Trust.
< 1293420543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy shit what is *that*.
< 1293420554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not there yet)
< 1293420565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wheat
< 1293420794 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230231169.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293420932 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293421141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :///goto -717 928
< 1293421143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1293421144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ://goto -717 928
< 1293421258 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION laffs at elliott 

< 1293421267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1293421285 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it wasn't you accidentally inputting into IRC twice
< 1293421516 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oh wheat" <- awesome
< 1293421936 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230231169.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293421990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: wat
< 1293422040 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to say "oh wheat" whenever I see something surprising
< 1293422183 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293422184 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293422551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: ah. in this case it was actually wheat.
< 1293422662 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is wheat useful? Do you need to eat to live in MC?
< 1293422698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. No.
< 1293422710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although that will be an option in the final game.)
< 1293422789 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am going to be a gibbering idiot by the end of the night
< 1293422830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Why.
< 1293422840 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 page research paper
< 1293422840 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtons second law
< 1293422845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: OH NO A WHOLE SEVEN PAGE
< 1293422845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S
< 1293422852 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to get it done before my professor wakes up
< 1293422875 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I didn't even start on it
< 1293422991 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1293423346 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293423359 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's it about? maybe you can distribute it
< 1293423504 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cryptography and Computer Security
< 1293423512 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll talk about misplaced trust
< 1293423517 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is incredibly broad
< 1293423549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in security, all trust is misplaced.
< 1293423640 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't really afford not to trust the compiler, though. The risk is somewhat small, but the lengths that would need to be gone through to migitate that risk
< 1293423646 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same with hardware
< 1293423674 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293423675 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you're Wikileaks and you foolishly accept hardware from the U.S. Gov't or something
< 1293423749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Can't really afford not to trust the compiler, though. The risk is somewhat small, but the lengths that would need to be gone through to migitate that risk
< 1293423758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: http://www.dwheeler.com/trusting-trust/
< 1293423760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: trusting trust has been solved.
< 1293423788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the risk is somewhat large, actually; Trusting Trust was (thought to be) the only truly unbreakable hack
< 1293423977 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone actually do it?
< 1293424036 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you determine if something is bit-for-bit identical?
< 1293424037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Um, you don't do it if you don't strongly distrust your machine.
< 1293424064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : How do you determine if something is bit-for-bit identical?
< 1293424072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: You could use the second, trusted compiler it mentions to write a program to do so.
< 1293424123 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, have you read Double Computing
< 1293424128 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to counter trusting trust
< 1293424132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo__: http://www.dwheeler.com/trusting-trust/
< 1293424134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's Double Compiling
< 1293424136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's what the link is
< 1293424146 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait - you were describing that
< 1293424150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Diverse Double Compiling technically
< 1293424151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :)
< 1293424158 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get why its so good
< 1293424170 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its OBVIOUS that if you have a second trusted compiler you could defeat the attack
< 1293424177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: no, it's not that obvious
< 1293424185 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how do you gain that trust?
< 1293424201 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why not?
< 1293424209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's about compiling the _compiler_
< 1293424217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: you can ultimately trust your own software.
< 1293424234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're not interested in going that far, you can trust something that isn't yourself. but that is more trustworthy than your untrusted box.
< 1293424291 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if I have a compiler which I trust which compiles source code which I trust which is a compiler then I could use that second compiler to compile other programs without fear
< 1293424292 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct?
< 1293424307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: no. not if you don't trust the system library
< 1293424315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: anyway, the point is that -
< 1293424321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: the system programs are compiled with the untrusted compiler
< 1293424325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want to know: is the system compromised?
< 1293424328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DDC lets you check.
< 1293424341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't about compiling programs you can trust, it's about /seeing whether the system is trustable/
< 1293424347 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah ok
< 1293424353 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes about 100x more sense now
< 1293424361 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can a trusted compiler on an untrusted system be trusted?
< 1293424369 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Static-linking only, etc?
< 1293424460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: just write everything yourself
< 1293424473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: the only syscalls you need are "read from standard input" and "write to standard output" pretty much
< 1293424491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if write("yes") gives "no" you can easily test for that :-P
< 1293424615 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great now i have a comma category
< 1293424633 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Karma karma karma karma chameleon
< 1293424664 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*karma
< 1293424779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: what's that one?
< 1293424828 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have no idea..
< 1293424832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1293424881 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have functors A --F--> C <--G-- B and the comma category F,G is sort of like generalized commutative squares with maps being C-maps and B-maps in parallel
< 1293424930 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can define natural transforms in terms of it, and also the category of cones
< 1293424956 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the category of cones makes sense, but thats a really simplified specific case of the comma category
< 1293425062 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night
< 1293425145 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vaguely onders if Sputnik is still in orbit

< 1293425323 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :win 48
< 1293425341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sputnik 1 burned up on 4 January 1958, as it fell from orbit upon reentering Earth's atmosphere, after travelling about 60 million km (37 million miles) and spending 3 months in orbit.[5]
< 1293425430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/code/arthou$ make
< 1293425431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gfortran hello.f95 -o hello
< 1293425431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strip -s hello
< 1293425431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/code/arthou$ ./hello
< 1293425431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hello, world!
< 1293425432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why the space.
< 1293425742 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I've broke the 1000 line mark http://coq.pastebin.com/7tueVQYx
< 1293425748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1293425751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :program hello
< 1293425758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write(*,"(A)") "Hello, world!"
< 1293425759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end program hello
< 1293425770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work ...
< 1293425774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A needs length after it
< 1293425791 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :desperately needing a better prover though
< 1293425817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  write(*,"('Hello, world!')")
< 1293425818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works, but ugh
< 1293425880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  print '(A)', 'Hello, world!'
< 1293425881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tada
< 1293425905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't make it a function though
< 1293426011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subroutine say(s)
< 1293426011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  character s*(*)
< 1293426011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  print '(A)', s
< 1293426011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end subroutine say
< 1293426011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :program arthou
< 1293426012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  call say('Hello, world!')
< 1293426014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end program arthou
< 1293426016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there
< 1293426087 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :know a good text for Knuth Bendix?
< 1293426144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately not
< 1293426333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night
< 1293426334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1293426651 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1293426964 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the requirements for adding a language to esolang ?
< 1293427010 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um
< 1293427021 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make sure it's well-specified
< 1293427028 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and/or hilarious
< 1293427065 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, ie - can I announce a new one (derivative of brainfuck) on it or should I announce it on a personal blog first?
< 1293427111 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go right ahead and post it
< 1293427118 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add it to the language list
< 1293427121 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright
< 1293427142 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and make sure you put it in the brainfuck derivatives category so we know not to bother reading it :P
< 1293427148 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, heh
< 1293427182 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i'll probably read it to see if it adds anything brilliant
< 1293427203 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its brainfuck with one extra operator "~" which changes the value at the program counter by the amount at the stack pointer to allow for self modifying programs
< 1293427205 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing special
< 1293427268 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :program counter... it can only self modify at ~ points?
< 1293427282 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack pointer?
< 1293427297 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bracket stack?
< 1293427314 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, yes
< 1293427350 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1293427356 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean the data pointer
< 1293427358 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got it
< 1293427377 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it changes it to the pointed to value? or adds it?
< 1293427382 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adds
< 1293427395 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1293427403 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm - I just thought of a better idea
< 1293427418 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that sounds like a silly thing to do
< 1293427434 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :self-modifying brainfuck already does full self-modificatin
< 1293427443 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, it already exists?
< 1293427453 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION couldn't find it

< 1293427462 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah...every variant of bf already exists :P
< 1293427466 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, maybe we could do research into finite and limited self modification
< 1293427489 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe, like the way there are classes of computational complexity, such as TC, there are classes of self-modifyingness
< 1293427490 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Self-modifying_Brainfuck
< 1293427526 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-}
< 1293427603 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds difficult to write code to manipulate what you want and when
< 1293427631 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First step for convenience might be shifing everything over for easy..wait that would modify the source
< 1293427639 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! In the source code, include markers
< 1293427641 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: i suspect that like TCness, it will be hard to limit it in such a way that creates an in-between class between trivial self-modification (aka, the ~ thing that only changes a command once to something else) and full on self-modification where the entire continuation can be replaced by something else
< 1293427676 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, ~ is already nicely in between the full thing and no self-mod
< 1293427680 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's a start
< 1293427748 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: it seems like it gives you no more flexibility than SMETANA's line-swapping paradigm does
< 1293427761 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, does it give less?
< 1293427768 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that in and of itself would be interesting IMO
< 1293427769 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it does actuually
< 1293427773 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's hard to tell
< 1293427799 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, please don't take this hard
< 1293427806 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can only change a ~ to something other than a ~ exactly once
< 1293427815 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas you can swap lines as many times as you want
< 1293427824 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, hrm ?
< 1293427846 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, the near uselessness of ~, I mean. Well, actually, it is useful as an object of study, so
< 1293427853 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, i recognized it wasn't exactly useful
< 1293427866 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was using it so the user could modify the program
< 1293427871 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with input
< 1293427880 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Well, actually, it is useful as an object of study, so" --> how so?
< 1293427887 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, we're discussing it
< 1293427892 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I meant
< 1293427906 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's interesting, and want to keep exploring levels of self-mod
< 1293427914 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have a 7 page paper to write :/
< 1293427919 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on what topic?
< 1293427930 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to get into theoretical comp sci

< 1293427933 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cryptography and Computer Security
< 1293427943 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, oh right - the one you pushed off...
< 1293427950 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or someone here did :-
< 1293427969 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, me
< 1293427988 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have a non paper assignment in the same class
< 1293427989 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So
< 1293427991 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUN
< 1293428004 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1293428011 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my classes are thankfully ove
< 1293428038 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iei
< 1293428188 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the minimum change you need to BF to make it fully self-modifying is a ~ that appends the character under the data pointer to the program
< 1293428299 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293428313 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, that raises the question of the definition of "fully"
< 1293428343 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In theory, old code stays forever part of the program, but you could rewrite everything and never be in the old code again
< 1293428343 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the entire continuation can be replaced by something else"
< 1293428350 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1293428396 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's a reasonable definition
< 1293428435 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a program is fully self-modifying if it can ever reach a point that it is executing only code that did not exist before it started running
< 1293428483 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or rather, did not exist outside of the input /to/ the program)
< 1293428589 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should also be true that the code that can be created in this way is fully as powerful as the language itself
< 1293428620 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, how does that tie in with halting
< 1293428632 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or else languages that let you add a bounded-time subset of the original code would qualify
< 1293428643 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. added code doesn't return to the old code iff added code doesn't halt
< 1293428649 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(think eval())
< 1293428677 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that less powerful than full self-mod?
< 1293428697 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that depends if there's a HALT instruction, doesn't it?
< 1293428713 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: if the underlying language is capable of non-halting computations, any modified code should also be capable of not halting
< 1293428732 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/any//
< 1293428806 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that one could prove existence of programs for which haltingness and return-to-pre-existing code are fully separable problems
< 1293428832 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka, you can show that it will not return to pre-existing code even if you can't prove it will halt
< 1293428855 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, maybe not for all fully self-modifying languages
< 1293428875 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293428915 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, i bet i could prove that there exist programs that one cannot prove whether or not it returns to pre-existing code
< 1293428926 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll have to think about it
< 1293429051 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :EGASSEMTERCESATONSISIHT | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1293429087 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is zzo38.  there is no way anyone could guess what that message says, so it must be secret.
< 1293429148 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Are you sure?
< 1293429190 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright i've got it.  construct a program P that takes a program M and then does "GOTO 0" when it halts.  Now pass it as input to a program Q that prints "RUNNING" and then appends the input code to its own code.  Pass this program to your executes-preexisting-code-again decider
< 1293429220 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the decider says it does, then it says M halts.  if it says it doesn't then it says M does not halt
< 1293429291 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... fully self-modifying as i defined it is not a decidable class.
< 1293429311 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt. proof: apply rice's thm.
< 1293429430 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is "pre-existing" defined?
< 1293429438 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it depends on how good one is at reading.
< 1293429460 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1:00 I get to work
< 1293429767 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: "pre-existing"="invariant at program initialization irrespective of the input"
< 1293429800 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, does self-modification without accepting input to determine the modifications not count as self-modifying?
< 1293429831 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't consider it that, personally
< 1293429833 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, because you can undo it into a normal program
< 1293429838 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^
< 1293429978 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps another way of defining it is in terms of a state machine: if it can create new states and has  the potential of abandoning entirely the set of states it was initialized with
< 1293430146 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about a quine that copies itself and then executes on the copy?
< 1293430265 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i have a definition that reduces it to exactly what i'm trying to get at
< 1293430395 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language is SM-complete if it is possible to create a program where there comes a point in its execution such that the entire continuation is dependent ONLY upon the contents of the input string and the contents of the program itself at initialization is completely irrelevant
< 1293430610 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the quine program would not be such a program ad therefore says nothing about whether its underlying language is SM-complete)
< 1293431173 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... if one can write an interpreter in the language?
< 1293431209 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is almost getting confusing...
< 1293431295 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, the contents of the program at initialization are what lets it self-modify
< 1293431320 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can have a program that doesn't use those features, then the language isn't SM-complete by your definition
< 1293431335 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaict
< 1293431369 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take Befunge/index.php, and make x the only legal program
< 1293431374 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: no, i said the entire /continuation/ at /some point in its execution/ is independent of the program at init
< 1293431407 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1293431609 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks the entire concept of self-modification is a throwback to machine code and is otherwise useless

< 1293431647 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, as useless as Brainfuck?
< 1293431702 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"useless" in terms of not granting one any more power
< 1293431708 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha
< 1293431742 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should discuss how one could use it to grant one less power
< 1293431757 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh
< 1293431782 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you have SM-complete yet still have the option to limit ... yeah, you shuld
< 1293431785 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should
< 1293431831 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: maybe self-modification grants one no more power, and the same is surely true of introspection/reflection, but both can make a lot of programs a whole lot easier to write
< 1293431909 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: i suspect we could come up with a SM-complete language that that is only primitive recursive
< 1293431943 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SM-code is just another form of mutation. and mutation is ugly compared to calculation. (IMO, obviously)
< 1293431952 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd need to study up on primitive recursive
< 1293431978 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there languages where the only mutation is self-modification? I think I've seen it
< 1293432038 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: it is a whole lot easier to update an application without taking it offline if you have SM built in.
< 1293432073 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is running out of battery

< 1293432086 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plug in!
< 1293432092 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Updating is mutation! It must die!
< 1293432104 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From now on, only write perfect code!
< 1293432121 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, you can update without self-mod if the application is just an interpreter
< 1293432124 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: no! use copy-on-write and then garbage-collect!
< 1293432142 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: in underload, self-mod is the only form of flow control.  does that count?
< 1293432163 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1293432175 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There wasn't something stronger?
< 1293432183 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stronger?
< 1293432186 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No variables, just constants, modified by SM?
< 1293432192 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sort of thing
< 1293432196 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahm
< 1293432216 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hold on
< 1293432241 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you mean like all input is written immediately into the program?
< 1293432269 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, not sure
< 1293432269 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all data is stored in the program?
< 1293432284 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I haven't seen it before
< 1293432294 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aubergine would qualify there, although it has conventional flow control (gotos)
< 1293432356 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on a side note, Aubergine is one of my favorite languages on the wiki.  i couldn't say why.)
< 1293432479 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(This reference implementation is buggy. The "or" on line 15 should be an "and," and against all logic, the "<" on line 44 should be a "<=.")"
< 1293432481 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwat
< 1293432524 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i wrote that
< 1293432543 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i had to make those changes to the ref impl to make it work
< 1293432549 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not just fix it?
< 1293432555 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you don't control the interp?
< 1293432558 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider [[IINC]]. Is that relevant? Maybe if you remove the line values and make it modify the commands instead?
< 1293432561 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not my language
< 1293432593 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you do it :P
< 1293432629 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean hypothetically.
< 1293432695 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.12/20101026210630]
< 1293432842 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if you can make a new kind of esolang out of purely self-modifying.
< 1293432894 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that language where all instructions must come from input
< 1293432902 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to quintopia, it's SM-complete
< 1293432907 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Easy]]
< 1293432936 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Is Easy the right one?
< 1293432948 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1293433006 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm
< 1293433006 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that seems Forth-like
< 1293433015 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole program is interpreting the program thing
< 1293433021 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i'd say that's SM-complee
< 1293433035 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although
< 1293433049 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one could also argue that it is more an interpreter than a language
< 1293433091 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, there's a problem
< 1293433096 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, how is an interpreter that never leaves interpreter mode not as SM-complete as a program in an SM-complete language that gets completely overwritten?
< 1293433103 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the : command is guaranteed to always be executed again
< 1293433122 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it occurs at the end of a program regardless of the input
< 1293433134 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there is pre-existing code that always gets executed again
< 1293433140 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's disqualified
< 1293433253 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: it's possible that any TC language is SMC by virtue of such interpreters being possible.  i'll have to think about it.
< 1293433346 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bash.org/?926695 i'm gonna play this at a party some night :P
< 1293434568 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293434969 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm scared that if I describe what an SQL injection is, and don't provide a source, my professor will think I'm plagiarising or something.
< 1293435066 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have standards for common knowledge?
< 1293435111 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, do it anyway
< 1293435634 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I recommend making sure it's not your computer
< 1293435655 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twiddling bits is a fantastic way to screw your system up in precise ways
< 1293435663 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or use a VM)
< 1293435820 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i was thinking of building a system just to play on
< 1293435830 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can rebuild it from scratch the next day
< 1293436060 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wants to play detective
< 1293436350 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1293436436 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: ?
< 1293436525 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bobby Tables!
< 1293436657 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love playing detective
< 1293436673 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1293436677 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/EUswg.jpg
< 1293436677 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/d5vDN.jpg
< 1293436677 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/feroG.jpg
< 1293436677 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/WbMEs.jpg
< 1293436678 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the dressing up like a gumshoe and playing cat and mouse with attractive widows part
< 1293436680 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :figure who did it
< 1293436686 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't actually like solving mysteries
< 1293436690 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it happened a little while ago
< 1293436754 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 mins, I get back to work
< 1293436759 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next paragraph etc
< 1293436765 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1min
< 1293436799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1293436800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293437126 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now railing about Diaspora's piece of shit security
< 1293437183 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck you EasyBib, that is NOT an invalid URL
< 1293437810 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK
< 1293437811 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU
< 1293437837 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, nevermind
< 1293437844 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no. I'm still saying fuck you
< 1293437857 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I have no idea.
< 1293438523 0 :aloril!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1293438590 0 :marmar!~Marco_Gab@host34-149-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293438596 0 :marmar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ciao
< 1293438621 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi
< 1293438646 0 :marmar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!list
< 1293438660 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marmar, hm?
< 1293438665 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you trying to do?
< 1293438693 0 :marmar!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1293439037 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293439038 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1293439046 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Stackmill
< 1293439052 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you please look at the commands list
< 1293439061 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tell me if there's a command i could replace
< 1293439069 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be "duplicate topmost element on stack"
< 1293439093 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking division or multiplication
< 1293439164 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :�
< 1293439184 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1293439189 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sorry
< 1293439194 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't look at the page
< 1293439215 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think multiplication as it's far easier to implement with add/sub than division
< 1293439231 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duplicate topmost element on stack would save a lot of cycles for possible programmers
< 1293439235 0 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293439242 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example to duplicate a value of 10000
< 1293439247 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to execute like... 100000 commands
< 1293439387 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Seriously, cloud computing was the original motivation for the language." -- Gilad Bracha on Newspeak
< 1293439400 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, suddenly, I'm not so sure how much I like this language
< 1293439419 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the language itself is fine, but can I morally support this language when that is its goal?
< 1293439434 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's not really that cloud-extremist
< 1293439438 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should relax
< 1293442610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293443930 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-8-200.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293444007 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is exactly equivalent to an SQL injection vulnerability, except in a language other than Javascript."
< 1293444010 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok I'm tired
< 1293444144 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/ST7Cg.jpg
< 1293444145 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/ST7Cg.jpg
< 1293444146 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/ST7Cg.jpg
< 1293444148 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/ST7Cg.jpg
< 1293444331 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell if that's NSFW or not
< 1293444378 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides that it is

< 1293444529 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__
< 1293444530 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not NSFW
< 1293444535 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's Not Safe For Any Kind Of Life Or Sanity
< 1293444568 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, the only thing that matches that description is death
< 1293444823 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, BZFlag
< 1293444842 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talked about BZFlag two years ago, as an example of cheating in ga... no, I didn't actually
< 1293444847 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm using it now =P
< 1293444936 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1293445184 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1293445309 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293445439 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-91-192.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293445638 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1293445904 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293446690 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now talking about Trusting Trust
< 1293446806 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html this is it?
< 1293446811 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the whole thing?
< 1293447198 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/01/countering_trus.html I actually understand this
< 1293447956 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230231169.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293448074 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so... obvious, really
< 1293448710 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293449895 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Agu10sInternet
< 1293449907 0 :Agu10sInternet!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur
< 1293450454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/owls/ :D
< 1293450547 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION dares oerjan to read every Mezzacotta strip

< 1293450568 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice try
< 1293450786 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What am I on again?
< 1293450790 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Social engineering
< 1293451046 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293451173 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293452281 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What are some similarities and differences between prank calls and attacks such as SQL injections?"
< 1293452286 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's official, I'm insane.
< 1293452340 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION clarifies "prank calls"

< 1293452871 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 seemingly unrelated comp sec topics in one paper
< 1293452873 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sensible!
< 1293453441 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293453583 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.114.29.124 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293454893 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230231169.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293455968 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1293456177 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1293456179 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1293456184 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1293456461 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-8-200.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293456461 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293456461 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293456895 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1293456978 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293457349 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-8-200.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293457553 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1293457555 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... I'm seeing how small space one can pack the complete list of all allocated unicast IPv4 addresses...
< 1293457566 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1293457669 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far, 1/8th of the address space processed, about 2328 bytes output...
< 1293457806 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293457890 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, mcmap got desynced somehow when placing a torch high up. Garbage on map
< 1293457978 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1293458003 0 :jix!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293458094 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293458290 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION breathes

< 1293458299 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I submitted everything the professor asked for
< 1293458306 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me try to do more
< 1293458312 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Increase my odds
< 1293458421 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1293458755 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293458768 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293458813 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293459607 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229028037.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293459662 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program I wrote compressed bitmap (4Gib) of all allocated/delegated IPv4 address ranges to 29376 bytes...
< 1293459735 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293459867 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1293459939 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari can you send the decompressor and the compressed file
< 1293460242 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1293460256 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293460278 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I designed the format more for random access into compressed bitmap than to be decompressed...
< 1293460328 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293460332 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-224-120.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293460351 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks what xz does with the data...

< 1293460460 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you have random access, surely decompression is just a for loop over that :)
< 1293460476 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari even if it's slow, do eet
< 1293460515 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there are faster methods to decompress that data than loop over random access...
< 1293460838 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION might find that data useful at some point

< 1293460847 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to ban all IPs from a certain wiki

< 1293460858 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can just ban every /16 block, but that's tedious
< 1293460869 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, of course I'd use a bot, but still
< 1293460877 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel deranged
< 1293460959 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :patch source code?
< 1293461005 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have that kind of control over it
< 1293461016 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I did, I'd set the setting that blocks anons from editing
< 1293461032 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION finally gets to use his Evil Wanda laugh in his FB status

< 1293461749 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, /all/ IPs?
< 1293461755 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't that forbid everyone
< 1293461762 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would forbid anonymous users
< 1293461778 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't select the option to ban logged in users with those IPs
< 1293461810 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, tried captcha?
< 1293461821 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, I don't have that level of access
< 1293461832 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, can't you ask someone who /has/ that level of access?
< 1293461844 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think any such person is active
< 1293461861 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't let to ban above /16 size?
< 1293461888 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, nope
< 1293462102 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now the data even roundtrips through compressor and decompressor I wrote...
< 1293462167 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I deranged for comparing SQL injections to prank calls on The Simpsons?
< 1293462660 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....CRAP
< 1293462668 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My presentation doesn't have a works cited
< 1293463204 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's it
< 1293463209 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's all the work I can do
< 1293463215 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's anything else I can do
< 1293463218 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to breathe
< 1293463302 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1293465365 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293465374 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hi
< 1293465384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yawn
< 1293465459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:42:54  j-invariant: basically he's trying to replace MSE
< 1293465459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:43:00  TeXnicard is not written entirely in TeX. It only uses TeX for the typesetting.
< 1293465459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:43:02  knowing zzo38 it will likely not happen
< 1293465459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:43:06  but if it does, <3
< 1293465467 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://twcywesit21c.tumblr.com/
< 1293465476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: erm you have seen that TeXnicard is used by writing code in an underload-style language? :D
< 1293465503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: btw /Enhanced/ CWEB is zzo's own version of CWEB.
< 1293465544 0 :ineiros_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1293465600 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott
< 1293465606 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Stackmill
< 1293465621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:24:05  Sgeo: oh
< 1293465621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:24:08  so you're just an idiot
< 1293465630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no no you don't understand, he has a crippling fear of deadlines!
< 1293465631 0 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293465635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: seen.
< 1293465895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:38:47  brainf**k can be implemented in it so it seems turing-complete
< 1293465899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: i edited the page to correct this
< 1293465912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: you have implemented a /finite-tape/ version of brainfuck which only proves it is at least a finite state machine
< 1293465950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: also see http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Stackmill
< 1293465998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:21:53  http://codepad.org/R1ydyMJ8 --> does anyone see anything wrong with this implementation of brainfuck ?
< 1293466012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: as long as "quick" doesn't mean in the sense of execution speed, in which case it's going to be very slow ...
< 1293466041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:30:18  It might give variable a wrong impression
< 1293466051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo i'm sorry but i don't think any impression you could give would be wrong
< 1293466068 0 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.86.45 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293466072 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293466141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:30:12  Vorpal
< 1293466141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:30:13  about the bug
< 1293466141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:30:21  it only happens in the best GBA emulator available, NO$GBA
< 1293466141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:30:27  it doesn't happen on the worse emulators (VisualBoyAdvance)
< 1293466141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:30:28  or the real thing
< 1293466141 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think I see how BCT can be implemented
< 1293466147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well erm i hate to state the obvious...
< 1293466150 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott it is the best emulator
< 1293466157 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sorry but every NDS developer uses it
< 1293466159 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1293466160 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not developer
< 1293466161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but an emulator with a bug not in the real hardware that other emulators don't have does not *sound* like the best, i'm afraid
< 1293466165 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people who want to emulate the thing
< 1293466183 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is the only one which can emulate almost all commercial games properly
< 1293466193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sry, don't buy it. I see "LOL NO$GBA IS SO K33WL" all the time but I've never seen any evidence for it
< 1293466211 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is because it has a really good debugger
< 1293466215 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and
< 1293466220 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can run a lot of stuff well
< 1293466223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debugging is not to do with emulation
< 1293466339 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after checking BCT
< 1293466352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i read that as that the emulator may be the only one to have this particular bug, but all the others have _more_ :D
< 1293466377 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am sure it's doable
< 1293466378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: possibly ... but printf("%d",99) crashing an emulator suggests to me that it might be a widdle bit of a big bug
< 1293466385 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 = pop value
< 1293466388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think
< 1293466406 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 = if value is nonzero (1), put next input value on stack and shift up
< 1293466409 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: yeah i mentioned BCT because it looked to me like it would be easier
< 1293466414 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's BCT in Stackmill
< 1293466417 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not have a working implementatino
< 1293466420 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :implementation*
< 1293466422 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i can prove it is possible
< 1293466465 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not give up that easily
< 1293466467 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1293466472 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i will have to backport some stuff from BF algorithms
< 1293466474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:29:29  I'm scared that if I describe what an SQL injection is, and don't provide a source, my professor will think I'm plagiarising or something.
< 1293466487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man yeah i get punished for knowing things all the time because you're not expected to know simple things like that in university!
< 1293466493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd be careful even saying 2+2=4 personally
< 1293466563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:59:14  2 mins, I get back to work
< 1293466563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:59:19  Next paragraph etc
< 1293466563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:59:25  1min
< 1293466564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:59:59 --- log: ended esoteric/10.12.26
< 1293466564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:00:00 --- log: started esoteric/10.12.27
< 1293466564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:05:26  Now railing about Diaspora's piece of shit security
< 1293466577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: a good less-than-five minutes of solid work i see!
< 1293466592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait you meant in your ... um ... i don't really want to give it the title essay
< 1293466592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man
< 1293466594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am grouchy today
< 1293466598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: have you got any kittens
< 1293466599 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: at least for 1+1=2 you can cite russell/whitehead
< 1293466605 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1293466616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Brainfuck/w/index.php%3Ftitle%3DTalk:Brainfuck/index.php
< 1293466617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey look
< 1293466620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a new esolang to make!!
< 1293466629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brainfuck/index.php is going to be the BEST. ESOLANG. EVER
< 1293466651 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Stackmill#Turing-completeness
< 1293466762 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i am grouchy today <-- no _i'm_ grouchy
< 1293466849 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that kind of thing OK
< 1293466861 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293466865 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: you might also want BCT's top level loop and exit condition
< 1293466939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course, that's not very explicit...
< 1293466983 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan - check again, like this?
< 1293466988 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the exit condition might be slightly tricky.
< 1293467030 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you solved that part.
< 1293467051 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore i've shown that using the current command set it is possible to implement BCT in my language
< 1293467059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: write bf interpreter in scheme plz
< 1293467064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need for silly troll language
< 1293467090 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also
< 1293467096 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the **** did i port Stackmill to the GBA
< 1293467104 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ran a fibonacci program on it
< 1293467117 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the weakness of Stackmill is a need to run a time-consuming loop to duplicate/move a number
< 1293467118 0 :atrapado!~rodrigo@193.144.79.241 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293467119 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: actually it's the halting that's slightly tricky, since you have to be able to do that on every 0 instruction...
< 1293467143 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: do the check after the command runs
< 1293467181 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :push a check value on stack (0 - halt, 1 - no halt)
< 1293467182 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: it's not the checking that's tricky, it's the actual halting... although maybe it's not that hard
< 1293467192 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it'll be 0
< 1293467194 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the loop will terminate
< 1293467197 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's 1, it will restart
< 1293467201 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the beginning of the loop
< 1293467204 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the check value will be popped
< 1293467207 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go
< 1293467255 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: you have to do that check after each 0 command though
< 1293467264 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it will do it in the loop
< 1293467272 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one run of the loop = one command parsed
< 1293467273 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i only know how to do a "x==[constant]" check in Stackmill
< 1293467275 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd implement it
< 1293467279 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knew*
< 1293467343 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: i see, i was thinking of a compiler BCT -> Stackmill
< 1293467347 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1293467359 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am thinking of an interpreter there
< 1293467365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar to your brainfuck example
< 1293467370 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :input: the program, looped on and on
< 1293467374 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :output: nothing
< 1293467381 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a compiler may very well be impossible
< 1293467385 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an interpreter has the disadvantage that you need to keep both the program and the data in the stack
< 1293467390 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you don't
< 1293467397 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : input: the program, looped on and on
< 1293467403 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just have to send the program ad infinitum
< 1293467410 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real-world example: glue both ends of the program tape together
< 1293467420 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: i would not consider that a proof of TC-ness
< 1293467437 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too cheating
< 1293467441 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in that case it's not TC
< 1293467447 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you very much
< 1293467460 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless WAAAAAIT
< 1293467462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is.
< 1293467468 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do this
< 1293467472 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[command, check][command, check]
< 1293467476 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] - loop
< 1293467477 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are not unsolvable problems.
< 1293467479 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the check is 0
< 1293467484 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL the command/check loops will be ignored
< 1293467487 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to the program halting
< 1293467496 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1293467503 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the compiled version looks like this
< 1293467506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: yeah but you need to do it a bit more subtly than that
< 1293467511 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what
< 1293467523 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why
< 1293467527 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the solution works, is that not enough
< 1293467533 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: you sometimes need to be able to go to the next command _without_ skipping it
< 1293467541 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the check is 1
< 1293467542 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't skip it
< 1293467552 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and will have normal program flow
< 1293467561 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the check is 0 (read: stack empty)
< 1293467561 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...if the check is 1 how do you exit the first loop?
< 1293467567 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why would you have to
< 1293467572 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the check is 0 when the stack is empty
< 1293467587 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main loop would also exit as the last check executed would be a 0
< 1293467587 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_because you want to run the next command_!
< 1293467613 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it's "after each 0 command, halt if the stack is empty"
< 1293467622 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1293467626 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i do
< 1293467635 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what does your solution do if the stack is nonempty?
< 1293467640 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the check will be a 1
< 1293467652 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1293467653 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1293467655 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got me there
< 1293467667 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, hmm
< 1293467715 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[pop previous stack value -> command -> check -> shift up and push a 0 so it quits the loop] pop the 0 -> shift down, giving the true check value [pop -> next command...
< 1293467717 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here
< 1293467721 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a way to make it work
< 1293467780 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STACK AFTER CHECK:
< 1293467785 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1(data)
< 1293467796 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if the check was positive)
< 1293467800 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STACK AFTER QUITTING THE LOOP:
< 1293467802 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0(data)1
< 1293467806 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STACK BEFORE ENTERING THE NEXT LOOP:
< 1293467808 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1(data)
< 1293467823 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STACK BEFORE RUNNING THE COMMAND:
< 1293467824 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(data)
< 1293467837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You Know You're a Haskeller When: you write a scheme program without realising that it needs to be initialised with an infinite stream of 0s
< 1293467897 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yay
< 1293467911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: fix it for me >:|
< 1293467924 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: use set-cdr! ? >:)
< 1293467935 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is complex but i believe i can pull off a BCT compiler
< 1293467944 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what it's called
< 1293467946 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is VERY complex so i'll have to make an actual app for it
< 1293467949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ...hey that will actually work!
< 1293467950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thanks dude
< 1293467964 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're welcome
< 1293468063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm I just realised that I basically have to put my whole "interpret" procedure in the argument to H
< 1293468069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since presumably it doesn't have access to the super-Turing environment
< 1293468254 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: i think there's still a problem there
< 1293468258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 1. Comments in -- style are too hard to mention cause they do not stop the eye-flow as // vertical slashes do. 2. Comments in /**/ style are too easy to enter from the right numeric keyboard, but {--} style require shift + some keys in the middle of keyboard.
< 1293468258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From phisiological point of view - putting the right hand to the right for comments tells the body "i'm putting a comment", but putting {--} in some way tells the body - I still type-in the code part.
< 1293468314 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thinking about new general purpose programming language
< 1293468334 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: the "pop the 0" from the different loops accumulate
< 1293468348 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan no
< 1293468365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm I need Banana Scheme opinions
< 1293468366 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: saw that in r/programming
< 1293468367 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the loop pops VALUE #1, does the command, pushes VALUE #1, moves it and pushes #2
< 1293468375 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the un-loop pops #2, moves VALUE #1 back
< 1293468376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to use eval in this program
< 1293468380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I need to pass an environment
< 1293468385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I need to do (scheme-report-environment version)
< 1293468389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For R5RS, version=5.
< 1293468393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what is it for Scheme-1?
< 1293468405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(scheme-report-environment 5.1)? :p
< 1293468414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(scheme-report-environment '5H)?
< 1293468424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optional procedure:  (interaction-environment)
< 1293468424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This procedure returns a specifier for the environment that contains implementation-defined bindings, typically a superset of those listed in the report. The intent is that this procedure will return the environment in which the implementation would evaluate expressions dynamically typed by the user.
< 1293468426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or that will work!
< 1293468432 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: the problem isn't what happens inside the loops, but what happens between them once you decide to skip them
< 1293468473 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're popping a 0 in each gap
< 1293468482 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a swap instead might work
< 1293468565 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293468578 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm stuck
< 1293468581 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no
< 1293468588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (run '(+))
< 1293468588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme 48 heap overflow
< 1293468591 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi asiekierka
< 1293468591 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not a problem as we are quitting the loop, right?
< 1293468596 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we are halting
< 1293468600 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293468601 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not care about what happens to the stack
< 1293468609 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we're halting only when the stack is empty
< 1293468619 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stack will constantly return zeros when empty
< 1293468620 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: well you still might not want it to crash...
< 1293468625 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It won't
< 1293468630 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh in that case it should be fine
< 1293468632 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1293468641 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so turing-completeness is theoretically proved
< 1293468644 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not practically, thouh
< 1293468646 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though*
< 1293468697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but it _should_ be just a cut-and-paste compilation once you found out what each part becomes
< 1293468700 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1293468707 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1293468713 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So can I state that this is turing-complete
< 1293468713 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or
< 1293468717 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/cut-and-paste/search-and-replace/
< 1293468720 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I make a practical one first
< 1293468750 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you should make it at least as explicit as the brainfuck version is
< 1293468772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: now now, a mathematician can't demand full specification from others
< 1293468774 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1293468775 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will tomorrow
< 1293468776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's hypocritical!
< 1293468776 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtg bye
< 1293468778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: just handwave it
< 1293468780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say it's probably TC
< 1293468785 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1293468804 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1293468808 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elbląg
< 1293468849 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats elliott -----###

< 1293468860 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, *prod*
< 1293468863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what
< 1293468873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: shut up, i'm sad because scheme48 heap overflows on my program, und- OH
< 1293468875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHHHHH. I SEE.
< 1293468884 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, about when do you plan to work on that thing?
< 1293468888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thx rubber ducky
< 1293468896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: on the wonders of the world?
< 1293468899 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah
< 1293468900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit busy coding right now :p
< 1293468907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot to turn minecraft off
< 1293468917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll loot my stock a bit later to see what there is
< 1293468931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (run '(+))
< 1293468931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme 48 heap overflow
< 1293468933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT HAVE I DONE TO YOU
< 1293468936 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, just want to know when I can expect you there so we don't miss constantly miss each other with half a minute :P
< 1293468948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'll have breakfast first :p
< 1293468952 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: memory leak?
< 1293468955 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait what
< 1293468969 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, when did you move to US or whatever
< 1293468980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hey shut up, ais523 has been on us timezone before and the like :)
< 1293469006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and oerjan just does it discreetly
< 1293469014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well ...
< 1293469023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think possibly scheme48 handles cyclic lists badly
< 1293469032 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oops
< 1293469046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: all that /should/ be happening here is it incrementing the first element of after (after = 0:after)
< 1293469048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       ('+ (interpret (cdr p) before (cons (+ (car after) 1) (cdr after))))
< 1293469052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then seeing the null is list and returning
< 1293469055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    ((null? p) (cons before after))
< 1293469060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, possibly it's /printing/ it that isn'tw orking
< 1293469074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1293469076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's try mzscheme
< 1293469084 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1293469143 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's try Racket
< 1293469146 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets shot

< 1293469193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/code/bwipttbip$ mzscheme -if bwipttbip.sc1
< 1293469194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to MzScheme v4.2.1 [3m], Copyright (c) 2004-2009 PLT Scheme Inc.
< 1293469194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (run '(+))
< 1293469194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reference to undefined identifier: H
< 1293469194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (define (H x y) #t)
< 1293469194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (run '(+))
< 1293469196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grmbl
< 1293469200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: done.
< 1293469201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.
< 1293469204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically that's slightly pre-Racket.
< 1293469299 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk
< 1293470266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The air on which Haskell programmers seem to thrive reeks of foul stench of cargo cult mathematics, something in which I don’t want to be a part." -- Quadrescence, clogging up my proggit with bullshit
< 1293470271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: gtfo of my front page
< 1293470359 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION didn't see that

< 1293470397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can you just ban him or something, he's a persistent troll with no interest in esolangs who just bothers everyone and also says "u" for "you" :{
< 1293470414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that is clearly a direct attack on the secret cabal of haskellers >:)
< 1293470458 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no dammit
< 1293470469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psht
< 1293470472 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also beware, i am _damn_ grumpy today
< 1293470477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll have to find a more loyal haskeller
< 1293470493 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT YOU JUST MADE UP THAT QUOTE
< 1293470516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: er what quote
< 1293470551 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that air and stench one
< 1293470562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, that's on reddit right now.
< 1293470569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/es29o/the_air_on_which_haskell_programmers_seem_to/
< 1293470588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :symbo1ics.com is his stupid blog which he keeps bugging everyone in here to write a post on.
< 1293470595 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no you
< 1293470609 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah I've invited people to write things if they wish
< 1293470615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :banning me is so cliché it's happened like 4 times by now
< 1293470620 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm done bugging people about it. I just made an open offer
< 1293470730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well at least you're well on your way to becoming just as overly-dramatically acerbic as Stanislav without actually having decent opinions to back it up, i predict imminent internet fame
< 1293470738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least proggit. what's the difference.
< 1293470749 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: u mad
< 1293470773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proggit is bad enough without your crap.
< 1293470792 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't post it btw
< 1293470798 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, is .. was about to ask
< 1293470803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: also considering you just mentioned IIRC /two days ago/ that you were finally learning haskell i seriously doubt you're even /close/ to competent enough to have a decent opinion on it.
< 1293470811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but let's not let that stop us.
< 1293470811 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what?
< 1293470815 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, do you just accept all programming related thoughts?
< 1293470818 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when did I mention I was learning haskell
< 1293470836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait bsmntbombdood said that
< 1293470836 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i wrote a blog post about haskell like 2 months ago
< 1293470836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl
< 1293470869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it's too much to expect you to realise that nobody likes Num, it's a historical relic
< 1293470894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[18:36]  mauke: I'm not talking to Haskell inter-
< 1293470895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preters, I'm talking to humans over the internet.
< 1293470903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that [Num t => t] is valid with existential quantification.
< 1293470906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's hardly a nitpick.
< 1293470924 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if I said "forall", maybe it would!
< 1293470979 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually what am i saying "forall"
< 1293470992 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuckyouall
< 1293471013 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are having a heated debate over a failure in communication.
< 1293471022 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ping times: 65.4ms and 1.5ms...
< 1293471032 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah for once i agree with Sgeo__ :)
< 1293471055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: no, no we're not
< 1293471060 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293471072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: I'm having a non-heated shit-slinging over the fact that Quadrescence is a moron and just about every sentence in the post is either blatantly incorrect or stupid.
< 1293471093 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: r u mad cuz i attacked haskell
< 1293471108 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have no comment about the rest of the post, but Quadrescence and the rest of the world need to figure out how to talk to eachother
< 1293471109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i don't even /like/ haskell all that much
< 1293471123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: the problem is firmly Quadrescence's.
< 1293471163 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In breakdowns of communication, the prolem is firmly whoever things that it's the other side's fault entirely
< 1293471176 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, ok, not "firmly"
< 1293471204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: i'm not sure you quite understand: he did not write a post about how mauke is an idiot for being a pedant, this is one minor point in a whole gigantic, shining orb of idiocy.
< 1293471205 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to go back to napping now
< 1293471305 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: y u so mad
< 1293471343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing even vaguely "mad" is mild irritation that proggit is being clogged up with another idiotic headline. the rest is just you being a moron :)
< 1293471394 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some programmer found it sensible. i guess he is probs an idiot too eh
< 1293471439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, SOME PROGRAMMER?!?!
< 1293471444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit, those are some credentials there
< 1293471449 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you bet
< 1293471461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got another programmer on line three, says VB is the best language ever and anything with esoteric in the name is a tool of the devil
< 1293471463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta agree with him
< 1293471468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see you, satanic cocksuckers
< 1293471469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1293471486 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he seems upset
< 1293471500 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293471505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decided satanism is the thing for m
< 1293471507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*e
< 1293471537 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb elliott, master programmer of #esoteric
< 1293471554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry no, i think you're forgetting: Mr. VB
< 1293471621 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mr VB doesn't vent about his favorite website being clogged with nonsense, he just Continues On His Way
< 1293471657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uses VB, yep.
< 1293471663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thinks we're all going to hell.
< 1293471665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice guy.
< 1293471705 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is very nice of you to elaborate on his opinions. perhaps you can tell me more about who he is because i am curious why he posted my non-sensical blog
< 1293471714 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293471728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you see he's magical.
< 1293471974 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so are you, master elliott
< 1293471995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lord over my domain. all ~seven of us.
< 1293472077 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I wonder where Deewiant is
< 1293472135 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293472141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: do you know how to merge two LVM volumes?
< 1293472282 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: doing something deewiant, probably
< 1293472471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone want to fix my interpreter? >:)
< 1293472493 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: where is it
< 1293472504 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293472504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on my filesystem
< 1293472543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph wait why the fuck does that run out of heap
< 1293472550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whaat
< 1293472557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh.
< 1293472567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define (interpret p before after)
< 1293472567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  (eval
< 1293472567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   `(letrec ((interpret (lambda (p before after) ,interpret-code)))
< 1293472567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      (interpret ',p ',before ',after))
< 1293472567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   (interaction-environment)))
< 1293472577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :methinks ',after might not like to be evaluated if after is infinite
< 1293472593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (eval `',zeroes (interaction-environment))
< 1293472593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[hang]
< 1293472594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1293472636 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293472674 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Abandonando
< 1293472954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can i troll you please? http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck/w/index.php%3Ftitle%3DTalk:Brainfuck/index.php
< 1293472960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is this language Turing complete or not? ;)
< 1293472973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it can run any computation that brainfuck can, just so long as it halts
< 1293473029 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1293473035 0 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293473048 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the fuck am I doing that XChat interprets as "close this tab"?
< 1293473053 0 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293473061 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you're all addicted to /index.php
< 1293473066 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm gibbering mess
< 1293473092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Actually, I'm just addicted to reacting to spammers that spam "Talk:foo" for ridiculous foo by creating a language named foo, so that Talk:foo cannot be reasonably protected.
< 1293473094 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's freezing cold outside, I haven't had a good night's sleep for... um
< 1293473094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically I hate the admins.
< 1293473114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also all these foo languages are basically trolls against the concept of a computational class.
< 1293473147 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what did you think of the disussion of SM-complete?
< 1293473164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: To be honest I glossed over it as it didn't seem very interesting.
< 1293473191 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not TC, since you cannot emulate an arbitrary turing machine computation in it
< 1293473208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sure you can -- just so long as it halts
< 1293473210 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1293473217 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where "emulation" requires a halting computation for the translation, naturally
< 1293473222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you can even sort of emulate an infinite computation
< 1293473230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: by running it for N steps for paramaterisable N
< 1293473251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also, you can trivially construct a program which is valid iff a given Turing machine computation halts, so it's /super-Turing/ and /sub-Turing/ at the same time
< 1293473254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: confused yet?
< 1293473303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:46:46  http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html this is it?
< 1293473303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:46:51  This is the whole thing?
< 1293473304 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sorry, but i believe TC requires you to be able to translate a computation which you don't know whether halts or not, and give a valid program as result
< 1293473310 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293473311 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hai
< 1293473321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Yes, that is the thing that made the most common opinion to be that computer trust was inherently limited.
< 1293473329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For at least a decade.
< 1293473366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sure. but then, it is super-Turing in a way -- you can construct a program which, given an error-compliant implementation, behaves differently when given a halting turing machine program vs. a non-halting one
< 1293473375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: even if one of these cases is an error -- this is edging close to Kimian quines!
< 1293473436 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kim Jong-Il writes quines?
< 1293473444 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__ I LOL'D
< 1293473447 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek
< 1293473486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: what
< 1293473489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.
< 1293473492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shaddap :D
< 1293473493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: eek at what?
< 1293473545 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well your language reminds me of promise problems
< 1293473590 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the issue of detecting whether something is a valid problem is a completely different task to detecting what the answer is if it is
< 1293473621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but consider this:
< 1293473632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lambda (p) ...run turing machine p, discard all output, print out "YAY!"...)
< 1293473634 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course since your language has no IO the second task is actually trivial for it
< 1293473645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: given a strictly-erroring implementation, you can run this program with various inputs to determine whether the given turing machine halts
< 1293473686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: now imagine a simple shell script wrapper: do this. if the program halts, run it on an actual turing machine emulator. if the program does not halt, run it an infinite number of times. first telling it to execute instruction 1, then 2, etc., given the previous state
< 1293473694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: now obviously the infinite loop here means the wrapper is providing a lot of the TCness
< 1293473697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes.  but then you are essentially solving the first task, which means you are not _really_ making use of only legal programs in the first place
< 1293473702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1293473713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm saying that an error-conformant implementation is both::
< 1293473715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*both:
< 1293473718 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then of course that is super-turing
< 1293473724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- super-Turing (can solve halting problem for Turing machines)
< 1293473731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- and sub-Turing (can't emulate all of them with valid programs)
< 1293473741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can be made TC by combining the first with a simple conditional infinite loop
< 1293473754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr WTF IST DIS
< 1293473857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also consider: a non-error-conforming implementation is TC
< 1293473864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and can be implemented on a turing machine
< 1293473868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just use a bf interpreter)
< 1293473878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: because non-halting programs will have their undefined behaviour be "run forever" :)
< 1293473919 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am just saying, it's a promise problem and confusing the different subproblems of it will just give nonsense
< 1293473932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: don't you think i'm /trying/ to give nonsense?
< 1293473944 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OF COURSE NOT.  THAT WOULD BE _EVIL_
< 1293473958 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1293473963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it is, as i said, a troll :)
< 1293474086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=User:Chris_Pressey&diff=20610&oldid=20565 am i a bad person now
< 1293474143 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i already did a similar correction, as did cpressey
< 1293474174 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's a user page
< 1293474174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but not on his user page :D
< 1293474193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=User:Chris_Pressey&diff=11261&oldid=7997 oh that's okay then
< 1293474194 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then yes, clearly genocidal evil madness
< 1293474214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what's a really tempting smart-vandal target?
< 1293474216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Template:Catseye]] :D
< 1293474260 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say
< 1293474303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw can you delete http://esolangs.org/wiki/Template:Catseye/inner, it's been unused for ages :trollface:
< 1293474460 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT OF COURSE
< 1293474554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well when will it be done??
< 1293474670 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT "WILL"
< 1293474749 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION never figured out the difference between "could" and "would"

< 1293474753 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, when is the ETA on that macbook air?
< 1293474771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's delivered via tiny particles in the air, you wait for them to spontaneously assemble to form a laptop
< 1293474773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's lighter that way
< 1293474775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no packaging required
< 1293474776 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and more importantly: will it be beefy enough to run dwarf fortress
< 1293474785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Maybe :P
< 1293474805 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ETA are far too busy blowing up things in spain
< 1293474806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 2.1 GHz semi-recent Core 2 Duo, 4 GiB RAM, and a decent GPU but that hardly matters for Dwarf Fortress.
< 1293474808 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, doesn't it use text UI iirc?
< 1293474828 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so shouldn't you be able to get an account on bsmntbombdood's computer and play it over ssh?
< 1293474829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, it renders its own UI which uses sprites that are mostly DOS codepage 437 plus some extra ones (like a dwarf glyph).
< 1293474835 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293474837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a server for doing it over telnet/ssh, though.
< 1293474844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I doubt bsmntbombdood would do that :P
< 1293474867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/80/Curses-tileset.gif this is what dwarf fortress looks like; notice the bearded dwarves
< 1293474904 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is it CPU bound or memory bound?
< 1293474933 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, memory bound is the wrong word
< 1293474945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:System_requirements http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Maximizing_framerate
< 1293474945 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that would seem to refer to memory speed
< 1293474954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"DF is not particularly RAM-hungry. Expect the process to allocate between 300 and 700 MB with medium regions. With 512MB you may be a bit on the short side, but 1 GB is absolutely sufficient. World Generation can eat up far more than that, but Generation will only be slower if not more RAM is available. Otherwise the influence of RAM on game speed is limited, as DF is not loading and offloading big ch
< 1293474954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unks of data much."
< 1293474977 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 1 GB for dwarf fortress or 1 GB for the entire system I wonder
< 1293474985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Entire system, I think.
< 1293474998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I gather that just about anything can play Dwarf Fortress if you're okay with only seeing a handful of tiles at a time.
< 1293475044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal:
< 1293475045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    CPU: AMD 7750x2 BE @ 2.7GHz
< 1293475045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    MBO: Gigabyte GA-MA78G-DS3h
< 1293475045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    RAM: 4GB DDR2 800
< 1293475045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    GPU: XFX GTX260
< 1293475047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Game version: 31.08 - graphics
< 1293475047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    World size: Medium region (default, nonmodified)
< 1293475049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Embark size: 5x5
< 1293475051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Age of fort: 6 years
< 1293475053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Number of dwarves: 140
< 1293475055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Average fps: 6-14
< 1293475066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Note extremely low average fps (it controls input too; apparently 5-15 fps is clumsy for text/mouse input)
< 1293475067 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1293475084 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what makes it so CPU hungry?
< 1293475109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's reaaaaaaaaaally advanced.
< 1293475118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: For instance, world generation basically simulates the whole world for ages.
< 1293475131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Procedural up the wazoo.
< 1293475140 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well... that would happen /before/ actual gameplay, no?
< 1293475143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1293475149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Then after that, it's just really complex nature algorithms and everything affecting everything else, from what I gather.
< 1293475160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, each dwarf has its own AI (well, presumably).
< 1293475163 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so while annoying to wait, it is not a major issue)
< 1293475201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Can't really give any solid recommendations, but I can share my findings between my machines. A 3.0Ghz P4 w/ 1GB of RAM ran the new version a little slower than the old. Another machine with a dualcore 2.0Ghz processor and 2GB of RAM ran it even slower. And my main machine, a quadcore @2.3Ghz with 3.25 GB of RAM ran significantly faster than the old version."
< 1293475202 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in most games each create has it's own AI on some level. Otherwise all copies would do the exact same actions at a given point in time.
< 1293475227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You know why Minecraft is slow?
< 1293475245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Imagine if Notch was a crazy perfectionist who spent less time making the game fun than making it RIDICULOUSLY COMPREHENSIVE and had a magic infinite-speed computer.
< 1293475251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's why DF is slow.
< 1293475253 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, java mostly. It is slower in the beginning when stuff hasn't been jitted.
< 1293475257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, no.
< 1293475259 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he
< 1293475262 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh*
< 1293475265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's slow because it's handling thousands and thousands of blocks and shit at the same time.
< 1293475271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so Java doesn't help, but still.
< 1293475275 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for minecraft, yeah quite
< 1293475282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's OK in Minecraft because not that much is going on at any given time.
< 1293475291 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, playing it locally gives lower FPS than playing SMP
< 1293475297 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only for desktop
< 1293475307 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for my laptop both give same (and lower) FPS
< 1293475346 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because my desktop has a good GPU but a somewhat dated CPU. And my laptop has a decent CPU but intel graphics
< 1293475409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm optimistic about the Air's performance.
< 1293475420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it'll probably be faster than my old iMac, which is good enough for me. :p
< 1293475429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also SSD.
< 1293475486 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java performance... Java is quite performant, but has some rough edges that really murder performance if hit (large switch statements and virtual method calls).
< 1293475510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Switch statements being slow, who'da thunk it.
< 1293475668 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently (at least the most common) JVM can't use jump tables to optimize switches.
< 1293475713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can switch on strings in java.
< 1293475755 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, but even when switching on small integers it is slow.
< 1293475777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1293475811 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1293475893 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And some array-intensive code can be slow too (because of bounds checking)...
< 1293475923 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now is time for... PINK FLOYD :F
< 1293475939 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which recording should I choose hmmm
< 1293475983 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293475991 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dark Side of the Moon is always good.
< 1293476227 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah
< 1293476232 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean yes
< 1293476235 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not now
< 1293476776 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293476778 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shine on you
< 1293477077 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, "Wish You Were Here" is a pretty good album...
< 1293477227 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, skype again?
< 1293477366 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooooh. 27C3 started.
< 1293477418 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes.
< 1293477448 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@host81-154-106-246.range81-154.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293477835 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, mcmap failed with 19:21:23 [DIED] protocol.c:305: Unknown packet id: 0x68
< 1293477974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: As we've said, you failed.
< 1293477982 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How?
< 1293478010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: rm mcmap *.o
< 1293478012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: make
< 1293478015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: _build/mcmap ...
< 1293478018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You were using the old version.
< 1293478041 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, screw it, I'm removing it and recloning./
< 1293478059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You just did ./mcmap. It builds into _build/mcmap.
< 1293478063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./mcmap was your old build.
< 1293478064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duh.
< 1293478118 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sorry for not realising you'd changed the location of the executable from some vague references mixed with wrong advice.
< 1293478251 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of like the presentation I made
< 1293478578 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, what was it on and should I care?
< 1293478626 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, the incredibly vague topic of "misplaced trust", which I used to cover SQL injections, XSS, games, trusting trust, and social engineering
< 1293478646 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I seriously cannot see anyone else on the server.
< 1293478823 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293478840 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION guts .minecraft/bin

< 1293478868 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION needs to put food on his stomach soon

< 1293478887 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, eat your copies of ActiveWorlds.
< 1293478894 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: So, that's like writing about "formal reasoning" for a math class, then?
< 1293478913 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Full of essential semimetals!
< 1293478959 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm. I don't think it's _that_ relatively broad, but close
< 1293478959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Why do you keep dying?
< 1293478964 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some packets must be being dropped...
< 1293478967 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or somesuch.
< 1293478975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You're stupid.
< 1293478978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: We can't see each other either.
< 1293478981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's a glitch due to teleporting.
< 1293478984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Known.
< 1293478987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It happens to us all the time.
< 1293478992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We just don't want to reconnect because this is fun.
< 1293479000 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1293479002 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you ever discover who blew up the wonders of the world?
< 1293479005 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could have told me, rather than waiting for me to complain and then being smug.
< 1293479021 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo
< 1293479038 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, we told you in game
< 1293479042 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shaves

< 1293479055 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not literally)
< 1293479056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: We /did/ tell you. Several times.
< 1293479063 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, oh, you mean when I was connecting and disconnecting constantly?
< 1293479075 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no, before that iirc
< 1293479104 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I wasn't following the conversation; I assumed you couldn't see me but could see each other, and there was no evidence to the contrary.
< 1293479163 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, except what we said
< 1293479228 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, uninstall painterly?
< 1293479229 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1293479230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: We said we couldn't.
< 1293479240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: There. Is. Nothing. You. Can. Do. It. Is. A. Problem. That. Only. We. Can. Solve. Stop. Messing. With. Things.
< 1293479250 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a journal or book for citing Martin Pool? Is there some other algorithms?
< 1293479251 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, because I gutted .minecraft before you told me.
< 1293479261 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, notch could solve it too
< 1293479264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: WE TOLD YOU AS SOON AS YOU ENTERED.
< 1293479265 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, please don't just assume I'm a fool.
< 1293479275 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, your own fault for not reading what we said
< 1293479282 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise we have to assume you are a fool
< 1293479294 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi zzo
< 1293479296 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi zzo thirty-eight
< 1293479311 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm... no, you can tell me after I notice the problem.
< 1293479317 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And start complaining.
< 1293479319 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think it is because you kill Phantom_Hoover. Possibly, but not necessarily, by mistake (and/or indirectly).
< 1293479343 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 knows too much
< 1293479352 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than saying how stupid I am after missing a single comment a long time ago when I had to reconnect anyway because of an unrelated chunk error.
< 1293479369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: We told you while you were walking around in the actual thing, post-chunk-error.
< 1293479391 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: Do you like my program?
< 1293479434 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not at all clearly; I read it as me being invisible to you and you being invisible to me, but both of you being visible to each other.
< 1293479446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Nope, we can both see you but nobody can see us.
< 1293479465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: BTW, I detonated a TNT in HHI headquarters.
< 1293479470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ...but nothing got hurt.
< 1293479473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is because I am a magician.
< 1293479493 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I could post scrollback from mcmap then...
< 1293479504 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can see how wrong you are
< 1293479515 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, the scrollback I've just been looking at?
< 1293479615 0 :Wamanuz4!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293479687 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to watch some DS9 today
< 1293479690 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe
< 1293479721 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Captive Pursuit" sounds boring
< 1293479760 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Federation ambassador from Betazed, Lwaxana Troi, visits the station, but develops an affection for Odo.
< 1293479760 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"
< 1293479768 0 :Wamanuz3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293479775 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not "Captive Pursuit". "The Forsaken")
< 1293479778 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course she does
< 1293479801 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why don't you watch DS78565398 yesterday, instead of watching DS9 today?
< 1293479804 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do we have a doctor here?
< 1293479836 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bucket, irc medical advice
< 1293479837 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...dammit
< 1293479843 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, medical advice
< 1293479843 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: anything else i could make the alpha key work and not really consistent with a decent product, if they didn't have methods?
< 1293479881 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://irc.peeron.com/xkcd/bucket/literal_irc%20medical%20advice.txt
< 1293479925 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm
< 1293479932 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'm allergic to something
< 1293479945 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Are you allergic to you?
< 1293479961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we _do_ have a nutrition freak :D
< 1293479968 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it never happened but now sudenly i'm red and i'm shaking
< 1293479972 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides that i feel good
< 1293479974 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, reconnecting, but slow
< 1293479974 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, call a doctor?
< 1293479975 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really strange
< 1293480008 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Yes, call a doctor. They can see you directly and since they are a doctor they might know better about this kind of things, too.
< 1293480027 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will wait until it stops
< 1293480029 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, my dad is a doctor. I think I know what he'll say: "I refuse to give advice about someone I don't know"
< 1293480037 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think I agree
< 1293480041 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it does not want to stop, then i will call the doc
< 1293480054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: yeah it will stop one way or the other *cough*
< 1293480055 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION prods elliott 

< 1293480064 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan:  :P
< 1293480077 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm the one with skin cancer though ;f
< 1293480084 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1293480091 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(post)
< 1293480127 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which reminds me, i just yesterday saw a link to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCnchausen_by_Internet
< 1293480128 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhmhhm
< 1293480141 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no accusation implied)
< 1293480144 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::F
< 1293480149 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, i will shut up
< 1293480245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Captive Pursuit" sounds boring
< 1293480249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You do realise you can't skip DS9 episodes.
< 1293480282 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are they less skippable than SG-1 episodes? Because I successfully avoided a boring SG-1 episode
< 1293480302 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I'll watch it of course
< 1293480307 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But just wondering
< 1293480307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: SG-1 is basically entirely non-linear.
< 1293480310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can skip every episode.
< 1293480324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DS9 is heavily linear and has many important B-plots in otherwise irrelevant episodes.
< 1293480349 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to see more about the Dominion War dangit

< 1293480429 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, more skype?
< 1293480443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: ASTOP TALKING TYO PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET WE ARE DOEING SEIROUS 0BUSINESPK!!!!890
< 1293480484 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is just down
< 1293480618 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'll be off...
< 1293480622 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1293480653 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: you still alive?
< 1293480699 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that was that, then.
< 1293480713 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember kids, always call the doctor in time.
< 1293480730 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does not actually follow his own advice much

< 1293480770 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No more.
< 1293480905 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Skin cancer? The almost-harmless kind or the nasty kind?
< 1293480924 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293481463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "Seeds are dried to a moisture content of less than 6%. The seeds are then stored in freezers at -18°C or below. Because seed DNA degrades with time, the seeds need to be periodically replanted and fresh seeds collected for another round of long-term storage."
< 1293481480 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heh
< 1293481624 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1293482171 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is computation class of Brainfuck/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brainfuck/index.php language? Is it the same powerful or not, than BlooP with the REDPROGRAM command added?
< 1293482203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It's sub-Turing, but a fully compliant interpreter can be used to solve a super-Turing problem: determining whether a Turing machine halts or not.
< 1293482206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Confused yet?
< 1293482292 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes I realized that. But exactly what sub-Turing class is it? And of course a proper interpreter that gives error must be super-Turing to work properly. It is confused!!
< 1293482305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is very confused indeed.
< 1293482321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It's a rather powerful sub-Turing class, I don't think it has a name.
< 1293482338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For most sub-Turing classes ST, there is a program p \in TC such that halts(p) but p \not\in ST.
< 1293482351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas \forall p \in TC, halts(p) implies p \in ST.
< 1293482352 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, prod
< 1293482359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Calling this one ST.)
< 1293482390 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.out.print.some.more.dots.because.java.loves.dots.man("ow!")
< 1293482423 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Invent a name for it if it has no name
< 1293482519 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But do you know the computational class of BlooP+REDPROGRAM? BlooP is sub-Turing, if you add REDPROGRAM command in, it will still halt, but exactly by how much does it affect its computational class?
< 1293482572 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/sub-Turing,/sub-Turing;/
< 1293482655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not know.
< 1293482670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What is REDPROGRAM, again?
< 1293482672 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you going to make the computational class of Brainfuck/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brainfuck/index.php called "Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha class"?
< 1293482750 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: First I will define GREENPROGRAM. There is a catalog of all programs ordered by length and alphabetical order of FlooP programs. GREENPROGRAM takes the catalog program number (all numbered consecutively) and the input number. REDPROGRAM is the same but the catalog only contains programs
< 1293482756 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that halt for all values of their input.
< 1293482792 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So if GREENPROGRAMs 1 to 99 halt and 100 doesn't but 101 halts, then REDPROGRAM #100 is the GREENPROGRAM #101.)
< 1293482810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Can you say "REDPROGRAM f(x)+3"?
< 1293482813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some function f.
< 1293482814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And variable x.
< 1293482861 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I am assuming in this variant of BlooP, that the REDPROGRAM command takes two numbers as input, which can be specified in any way you can specify numbers, just like any other function.
< 1293482883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. Why two numbers?
< 1293482886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't it be one?
< 1293482901 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(BlooP is sub-Turing, always halts; FlooP is BlooP+MU-LOOPs)
< 1293482918 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Two numbers, because one is the catalog program number, the other is the input to that program.
< 1293482927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293482974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Quick, is unionfs1, unionfs2 or aufs "better"?
< 1293482982 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no idea
< 1293482992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Psht.
< 1293483012 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They're all terrible. elliottunionfs is the only choice.
< 1293483027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Why are they terrible.
< 1293483041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, elliottunionfs would consist of me forking Gregor's cunionfs and making it usable :P
< 1293483052 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Because they don't have elliott's magic sauce on them!
< 1293483068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That... I am not planning to put my "magic sauce" anywhere near a Kitten.
< 1293483080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, this Tomas M guy really hates unionfs and really loves aufs.
< 1293483091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.unionfs.org/ <-- Register a domain for open source research project X, use it to attack X!
< 1293483100 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I did not mean semen.
< 1293483126 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any idea about the computation class for BlooP+REDPROGRAM?
< 1293483129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mentally notes to never use Slax.

< 1293483148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: We all know what a sick, perverted furry you are now!
< 1293483153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tsk tsk tsk.
< 1293483208 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i think BlooP + REDPROGRAM is superturing, no?
< 1293483227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can determine if any program halts, by binary search
< 1293483254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are you sure?
< 1293483258 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes it might seem so. Can you prove? Still, programs in BlooP+REDPROGRAM still always halt, and you have no access to GREENPROGRAM or BLUEPROGRAM.
< 1293483263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: REDPROGRAM just runs a program
< 1293483268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you do have access to GREENPROGRAM, you can generate it
< 1293483277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even a sub-turing language can enumerate all valid floop programs
< 1293483291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you can't really distinguish two different programs which output the same thing given some input
< 1293483293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't tell what program it ran
< 1293483312 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But how can you match the catalog numbers between GREENPROGRAM and REDPROGRAM, especially if you cannot call GREENPROGRAM?
< 1293483325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I am not sure.
< 1293483331 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh hm
< 1293483348 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: er what is the _output_ of the REDPROGRAM function?
< 1293483352 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think you cannot even call BLUEPROGRAM; there is a diagonal argument saying you cannot do so.)
< 1293483385 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The output of the REDPROGRAM function is a single number. (Numbers in BlooP and FlooP are natural numbers, which are unbounded.)
< 1293483399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, by program zzo38 means one-argument function
< 1293483401 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott:
< 1293483404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq:
< 1293483411 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You're the one going on about magic sauce near a kitten.
< 1293483419 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, I mean a function taking one number argument and one number output.
< 1293483442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: BUT WHO BROUGHT THE SUBJECT UP
< 1293483449 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is possible to encode many numbers in one number. There are multiple ways to do so.)
< 1293483471 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Þou hast.
< 1293483480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: Because they don't have elliott's magic sauce on them!
< 1293483498 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is it tomato sauce, or pesto sauce?
< 1293483512 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Þou art þe one wiþ þe mind in þe gutter.
< 1293483525 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or taco sauce?
< 1293483546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. How much more inefficient is reading/writing to a loopback device, vs. a real partition?
< 1293483594 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq,elliott: Look that only elliott wrote "Kitten", and pikhq wrote something else (and, in addition, did not mean semen).
< 1293483742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So, stowfs is some hurd only thing right?
< 1293483768 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Quite.
< 1293483776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Lame.
< 1293483780 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Though the *concept* would be fairly easy to do elsewhere.
< 1293483793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What's the difference between stowfs and a unionfs?
< 1293483811 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The stowfs automagically handles the union.
< 1293483818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Uh, so does unionfs?
< 1293483833 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You drop a folder into /stow/ and its contents automagically becomes part of the union.
< 1293483833 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok if REDPROGRAM m n  is just the result of running halting program m on input n, then i don't see how to use that for anything useful
< 1293483839 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UnionFS doesn't do that.
< 1293483870 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could probably make a userspace unionfs-alike do it in an afternoon, though.
< 1293483959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Or just use unionfs and have a daemon watching /stow/ with gamin.
< 1293483959 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You would somehow have to calculate a number "m". You might do so from other known halting programs. I don't know.
< 1293483973 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Less elegant!
< 1293483986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"unionfs also stops unioning at mount points, which is really annoying and makes it unusable for a lot of purposes. e.g. a lot of the path-translation stuff in fakeroot could be avoided (and robustness improved) if you could union-mount the fakeroot directory over / before running the fakerooted command, so the changes that `make install' or whatever did landed in the fakerooted directory, but it norma
< 1293483986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lly saw the original /. But this doesn't work because of the mount-point-traversal problem."
< 1293483987 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293483988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1293483994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sure, but more elegant than stow.
< 1293484011 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, by far.
< 1293484016 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't know if quining helps at all.
< 1293484114 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+3
< 1293484117 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm *prod
< 1293484179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ?
< 1293484222 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you found it)
< 1293484353 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wawtched the ashes fora b it
< 1293484355 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo
< 1293484365 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the rules
< 1293484396 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: What ground did they play and what scores?
< 1293484406 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dont know
< 1293484462 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, what game?
< 1293484473 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cricket
< 1293484478 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293484502 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, the game that no one who isn't a fan can understand at all
< 1293484518 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the rules
< 1293484562 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least with football, which I'm no fan of, I dislike it even, I know that the point is to get the ball into the side of the game area that isn't guarded by your own guy. Then there are various arcane stuff like "off sides" rules or whatever)
< 1293484579 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but cricket just looks random)
< 1293484619 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(random to the point of mornington crescent)
< 1293484652 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In cricket the basically idea is that the bowler bowls the ball, the batsman should then try to hit it so that the fielders do not break the wicket. If they break the wicket, the batsman is out. Otherwise, the batsmen can run back and forth earning points, and stop when you think it is not safe.
< 1293484675 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, see, lots more jargon than you need to describe football
< 1293484691 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I didn't understand it, I got lost halfway through)
< 1293484700 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that's funny because I saw all of that except the part with the guy running back and forth
< 1293484708 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That may be.
< 1293484730 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: He didn't run probably because he decided it wasn't safe to run.
< 1293484748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq:
< 1293484748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stowfs
< 1293484749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... is a special mode of unionfs.
< 1293484750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--hurd wiki
< 1293484751 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and also that process does not sound like it takes very long - how is the overall game so long?
< 1293484780 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(When you step out of behind the popping crease (the popping crease is the line on the ground you have to stand behind to be safe), the fielder can throw the ball at the wicket and break it, and then you are out.)
< 1293484781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm the goddamn batsman." etc.
< 1293484814 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1293484858 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: The reason the game is long is because you will often defend so that you can continue and hope to score runs later. Also, there are eleven players in a team, there must be two batsmen in play at all times, so the innings isn't finished until ten batsmen are out (unless you declare).
< 1293484904 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically the batsmen try to score and the fielders try to break the wicket so that the batsmen cannot score.
< 1293484928 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how is the glass cube going?
< 1293484936 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, weren't you going to do it during xmas?
< 1293484941 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks zoo
< 1293484943 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks zzo38
< 1293484944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Still xmas holidays here!
< 1293484959 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well yes but *during*, it won't last forever
< 1293484969 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: There are other rules too, but I have described the basically the way the game works.
< 1293485026 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I plan to spread out and build an underwater base, so I might claim a large lake if you don't
< 1293485035 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it will need 128x128 too so...
< 1293485053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:/pkg$ ls foobar
< 1293485053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:/pkg$ ls -l foobar
< 1293485053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :total 0
< 1293485053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Dec 27 21:23 x
< 1293485053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:/pkg$ ls foobar
< 1293485054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x
< 1293485063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I may want to set udba=notify. If only it wasn't erroring on that ...
< 1293485086 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Did you ever notice anything in the game that I have not described?
< 1293485098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw ls foobar/x worked before all that)
< 1293485102 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well no, one thing was the filming
< 1293485114 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they vary the speed of time quite sharply
< 1293485138 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would rather they didn't
< 1293485177 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: That is just for instant replays and all of that kind of stuff so you can watch on television, it has nothing to do with the rules of the game. (If you do not like it, you might be able to go to the stadium?)
< 1293485213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone used aufs?
< 1293485261 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, iirc that is like the single non-bugfix patch in arch kernel
< 1293485266 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I use vanilla kernel though)
< 1293485274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: doesn't answer my question :p
< 1293485289 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, presumably every arch user not using a custom kernel then
< 1293485301 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it is a module
< 1293485303 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure
< 1293485306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "use"
< 1293485309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's a filesystem.
< 1293485315 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1293485317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a union filesystem.
< 1293485320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no, i doubt every arch user uses it.
< 1293485325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they'd have to mount it manually
< 1293485329 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but if the code is loaded into the kernel then it has been used in one sense
< 1293485339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1293485343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you trying to be unhelpful?
< 1293485371 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes same as you are when you do not answer which lake you plan to use. Since I'm just going to pick a large one at random then for this project
< 1293485376 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION feels like a douchebag

< 1293485377 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the one east of spawn
< 1293485380 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows
< 1293485395 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Said something I know I shouldn't have said, even though I only had good intentions
< 1293485410 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, this is not your diary. This is IRC.
< 1293485411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: east of spawn will invoke server's wrath.
< 1293485417 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, depends on how far
< 1293485431 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I was planning the one near the TNT test
< 1293485441 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe one of the large one to the west
< 1293485447 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you rebuilding Deewiant's stuff?
< 1293485456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: KITTEN WILL SHIP ONLY WITH GNUSTEP MWAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAAHIAHAAHAHAHAAIAIDIOJASHAJKLASDJFKG;ALD JN
< 1293485465 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, that is done
< 1293485471 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O awesome
< 1293485515 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or I could make an artificial lake between my place and mth
< 1293485519 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something
< 1293485526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not too close.
< 1293485557 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well I'm not sure yet. Or I could help on the cube if you start within the next few minutes (<5 minutes)
< 1293485582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Err, help how?
< 1293485594 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, draining water, digging, stuff like that
< 1293485596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP OpenSolaris -- the last System V derivative.
< 1293485600 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, marking out edges
< 1293485603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Link me to those possible locations again? :P
< 1293485607 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, opensolaris died? how?
< 1293485613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oracle have cancelled it.
< 1293485616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"OpenSolaris was just one of many Sun projects acquired by the proprietary database vendor Oracle, and although several of the others (Java, OpenOffice, and MySQL) have had their fair share of headaches and battles since the acquisition, OpenSolaris is the only one to be scrapped outright. A leaked Oracle memo announced the move in September, under which upcoming "Solaris 11" releases might be availabl
< 1293485616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e through a "technology partner program," but the open source version marches straight for the grave."
< 1293485627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System V is now dead, dead, dead!
< 1293485636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well.
< 1293485642 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, have to find it
< 1293485642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*RIP OpenSolaris -- the last _free_ System V derivative.
< 1293485653 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheh
< 1293485657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the first, I think.
< 1293485659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not that big a deal.
< 1293485664 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm experimenting with SPARC machines
< 1293485666 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1293485701 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, http://sporksirc.net/~anmaster/tmp/placement.png
< 1293485706 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i've recently met a team from Wroclaw's technical university that wants to build experimental, distributed OS for SPARCs
< 1293485738 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they love Plan 9
< 1293485753 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about the previous version
< 1293485757 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that one is still available no
< 1293485761 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and could be forked or?
< 1293485767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, presumably. I doubt it will be.
< 1293485769 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it can't be forked, then it was never free
< 1293485777 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm
< 1293485781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Hmm. That overlay makes it hard to see if there's any good mountains nearby.
< 1293485788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I need a mountain nearby for: (1) Entrance, and (2) Mining.
< 1293485796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt 2 is out; all that's near is sand.
< 1293485802 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minecraft = price wall
< 1293485803 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you get more stuff when mining below surface
< 1293485809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sure, but still.
< 1293485811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: "Price wall"?
< 1293485815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still pretty damn cheap.
< 1293485829 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheaper than most games
< 1293485839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even the final price ($20 I think) is cheaper than most games.
< 1293485844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modern games cost like £40 here.
< 1293485857 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how buggy final will be
< 1293485859 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably very
< 1293485866 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and then a number of bug fixes for it)
< 1293485872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adventure mode sounded fun until I read that you can't even place or remove blocks.
< 1293485876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remove blocks that you didn't place, sure.
< 1293485881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you should have to build things to get by!
< 1293485887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complete a circuit to open a door, say.
< 1293485895 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1293485924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt 1 or Alt 3 ... hmm.
< 1293485929 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway you have to check topo map to find mountains (which you don't need)
< 1293485936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt 1 is slightly closer to civilisation and spawn.
< 1293485956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Alt 3 has less water around it than Alt 1, right?
< 1293485969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really want it surrounded by water. Grr. I might have to explode some land.
< 1293485972 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hard to tell
< 1293486014 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for alt 1 I reserve the right to develop the waterfall area near it.
< 1293486027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I could explode the land in-between,t hough?
< 1293486027 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think that grown a bit since then
< 1293486032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That currently blocks off alt 1 from waterfall area.
< 1293486036 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also the mines cover much
< 1293486059 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as in, that has the underground dock and huge lava lake area
< 1293486064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Tell you what. Do you know the coords of alt 1 and alt 3?
< 1293486066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll look at both personally.
< 1293486072 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm no I don't.
< 1293486076 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could teleport there approx
< 1293486083 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by map clicking)
< 1293486094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That would be nice. I think it's about 10 ROUs above the ROU.
< 1293486100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On that map.
< 1293486127 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well alt 3 I been past a few times
< 1293486133 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt 1 I believe I gone past once
< 1293486149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: We both bring 256 cobbles?
< 1293486160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 512 cobbles is enough for a 129x129 border at sea level.
< 1293486199 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, connection rest
< 1293486201 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reset*
< 1293486215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You okay bringing 256 cobbles?
< 1293486244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PH: I've borrowed 256 cobbles on extended loan, hope you don't mind. Put some back in there.
< 1293486247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will return soon enough.
< 1293486253 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well I don't have 256 with me atm
< 1293486268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: How many, then?
< 1293486283 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this about 256 cobbles?
< 1293486286 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 10
< 1293486292 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I was on my way when you said it
< 1293486296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: minecraft :P
< 1293486303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Can't you /home and //goto?
< 1293486318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear PH: I've borrowed another 256. Sorry.
< 1293486334 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no due to lag I can't get out of /homed area (steel door)
< 1293486356 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you landed and parted game
< 1293486359 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely it's annoying gathering materials?
< 1293486364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Chunk loading error.
< 1293486372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, it is. Although stone is ridiculously common so cobbles are easy.
< 1293486398 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose if collecting stuff didn't exist, the game wouldn't be fun?
< 1293486417 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finite resources etc
< 1293486531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It'd be fun. That's what Classic was.
< 1293486532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this is more fun.
< 1293486730 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....why does chess boxing exist?
< 1293486869 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There needs to be snow in MC
< 1293486964 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i would pay... 5 eur for such a game
< 1293486981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: because why? the "bad" graphics?
< 1293486985 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, come play in Active Worlds!
< 1293486987 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snow in MC?
< 1293486988 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1293486988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: there is snow in MC, you dolt.
< 1293486992 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MC is snow-free
< 1293486994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: "no"?
< 1293486996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's snow in it.
< 1293487001 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hallowed halls shall ever remain clean
< 1293487016 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~nice@p5B133D2B.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293487022 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.biostatistics.ca/wp-content/themes/biostatistics/images/mc-building.jpg
< 1293487043 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor?
< 1293487049 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^MC
< 1293487060 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1293487078 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why a pink tie made me think of him. If the building were wearing a hat that would be more sensible
< 1293487092 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, because the autor is already too rich and he can't code
< 1293487105 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unfortunately this view of the building no longer exists as they are putting a building roughly where the camera would have been)
< 1293487138 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have to know why the building is wearing a tie
< 1293487152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's professional
< 1293487158 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.orientation.math.uwaterloo.ca/2010/pinktie.php
< 1293487209 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ashes 4th test is starting now in ITV4
< 1293487256 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION suddenly wants a pink tie

< 1293487280 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1293487349 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Who won the toss?
< 1293487381 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bit about the dean's tie isn't entirely accurate. There are a number of reproductions given out on special occasions
< 1293487411 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but the right to give them out is reserved for the dean)
< 1293487414 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I have seen some mathNEWS stuff even though I do not live in that province.
< 1293487421 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah, I recall
< 1293487434 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I didn't know if there was a toss
< 1293487446 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've garble warble fashes
< 1293487470 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: There is always a toss at the beginning of each match. That is how they decide who goes first.
< 1293487494 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of a coin?
< 1293487517 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, um
< 1293487530 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Yes, a coin.
< 1293487547 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION assumes that coppro is just joking around or somesuch, and is not having a stroke

< 1293487561 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm joking
< 1293487568 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't get the joke, I'm quite ashamed of you
< 1293487597 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mostly got that it wasn't serious, but what was humorous about it?
< 1293487693 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it was nonsenes
< 1293487709 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But why was coppro spouting nonsense/
< 1293487742 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Whoever wins the coin toss gets to decide who goes first (one team bats while the other team fields, and then after one innings they switch). There is some strategy involved in making this decision.
< 1293487763 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how can it be strategic, everyone has to have their turn
< 1293487820 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: The strategy has to do with the conditions of the ground and of the weather.
< 1293487837 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was not nonsense
< 1293487844 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: really?
< 1293487848 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q="garble+warble+fashes"&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
< 1293487852 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: They've table warble farble.
< 1293487870 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH
< 1293487873 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been a while
< 1293487902 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1293487903 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Yes. There is strategy in this game involving timing, ground conditions, weather, relative abilities of the players, endurance, and other things.
< 1293487934 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For example, if the ball has bounced on the pitch a lot, it might make dents in the pitch.)
< 1293487967 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that would make it harder to bowl
< 1293487977 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1293488041 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What-the-fucks-his-name dies in that book. And in the 5th book. And in the first book.
< 1293488069 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vaguely wonders if that's spoilery

< 1293488076 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hey there are actually two batsmen, and they both run back and forth
< 1293488111 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Yes. That is correct. One is the striking side. If they run an odd number of times, they will have swapped positions.
< 1293488145 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: thiss is getting more complicated all the time
< 1293488218 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Slartibartfast?
< 1293488225 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no
< 1293488228 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does seem to get more complicated all the time, but the rules have logical sense, the rules aren't just completely random.
< 1293488234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: As Gregor said, the game of cricket is so complicated that the human mind can either understand it, or all other games.
< 1293488235 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agrajag?
< 1293488241 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1293488253 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a computer called that.
< 1293488264 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Did Arthur kill it in a fit of rage?
< 1293488304 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, though it did have a habit of saying "CPU Fan Error - press F1 to continue" at boot-time.
< 1293488311 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol elliott
< 1293488329 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how not only has Agrajag died every time to Arthur in some way, but /everything Arthur has ever eaten or caused the death of has been a reincarnation of Agrajag/
< 1293488338 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The rules may be complicated, but not as much as some games. There are more complicated games. I think Quintuple Arcana is probably more complicated (in fact, so complicated that nobody has written out all the rules yet).
< 1293488350 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, hmm, didn't remember that
< 1293488376 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, the sperm whale?
< 1293488402 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes
< 1293488428 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1293488438 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I have this throwaway email address I use sometimes
< 1293488446 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yeah, but most of those games aren't popular sports.
< 1293488450 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the website said it will be terminated by Dec 8; it's still there
< 1293488458 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes.
< 1293488480 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ball hit the edge of the field?
< 1293488536 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: If the ball hits the boundary before anyone else catches it (or if someone catches it while it is outside the boundary), the batsman scores four points (or six points if it hasn't hit the ground yet).
< 1293488556 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can score without having to run in this case.
< 1293488557 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have thought he wasn't supposed to get it rigpht outside
< 1293488603 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cricket kinda is, if you happen to have allegiance to Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and of Her other Realms and Territories, Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith.
< 1293488680 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is that relevant?
< 1293488710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It's not very popular outside of Her Realms.
< 1293488712 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how come cricket AND baseball exist in the same world? and football and soccer
< 1293488733 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basketball and volleyball
< 1293488743 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Probably because they are different games.
< 1293488764 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many games are there?
< 1293488768 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, next you'll say that only one of C and C++ should exist or... oh wait, there's a good argument for that
< 1293488779 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: There are *many* varieties of football. It just so happens American football and association football are the two most popular.
< 1293488799 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro hates me now
< 1293488814 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Likewise, there are many bat-and-ball games, baseball and cricket being the two most popular.
< 1293488816 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably a lot. Even with card games, some people will make up some variant rules; with chess, there is FIDE chess but many people will make up variants; etc.
< 1293488824 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the crowd are making an ominous jeer
< 1293488835 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I can't say anything similar for basketball and volleyball, though; those are very unrelated games.
< 1293488842 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not clear whether the batsman hit the ball or not
< 1293488843 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1293488846 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :volleyball is a net sport
< 1293488847 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About the only thing in common is the term "ball".
< 1293488860 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :net sports overlap with racquet sports
< 1293488868 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rugby and american football
< 1293488883 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Yes, rugby is another football game.
< 1293488907 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: That does sometimes happen. Sometimes they have a TV camera that they can record it and watch more accurately. But other than that it is the umpire's decision to make once someone appeals.
< 1293488923 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they even have a heat vision camera
< 1293488924 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293488941 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :unaffiliated
< 1293488942 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also Australian and Canadian football. See, tons of football games.
< 1293488947 0 :unaffiliated!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo
< 1293488951 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Registered
< 1293489144 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the batsman dived to get past the line before the ball with pushed against the wiket. It was close to within 1/30th of a second but he made it
< 1293489206 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: OK.
< 1293489233 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised that it is so close
< 1293489262 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wicket
< 1293489354 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course such a thing might happen sometimes. Like other things might happen sometimes, too.
< 1293489363 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tennis and badmington
< 1293489390 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how common it is to be that close within 1/30th of a second, but of course it is possible.
< 1293489398 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293489430 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I imagine things come closer as the skill of the players increases - so these playes must be very good
< 1293489469 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it was just random
< 1293489506 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I would imagine that is probably the case. It is a Test match, so it is the highest level first-class and they would have good players there. But it can happen just by random, too.
< 1293489606 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does 4/283 mean, as a score>
< 1293489619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1293489662 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: It means they have scored 283 points in 4 wickets (in this sense, a "wicket" means the play before you are out (being out is also called "losing a wicket" or "fall of wicket")).
< 1293489710 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It can sometimes get confusing that "wicket" means two things until you are used to it, then it isn't really any more confusing than any other words meaning two things.)
< 1293489725 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see
< 1293490019 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone happen to know if there is a meterology channel on here?
< 1293490080 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know.
< 1293490094 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :harm
< 1293490149 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230230205.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293490169 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like an opinion. Should I use Martin Pool's algorithm (but in a more generalized way)? Is there a journal or book to cite in the bibliography?
< 1293490183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: down?
< 1293490209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: Ping.
< 1293490258 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the players got hit by the ball and he wont get back up
< 1293490282 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they cut away and now everything is back to normal
< 1293490402 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that must suck, playing with a sore knee
< 1293490435 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: is that something which orders like 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,... rather than 1,10,11,2,3,4,... ?
< 1293490452 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Yes.
< 1293490478 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't like those but that's just because the basic algorithm is simpler, maybe some people find this easier to use or something
< 1293490497 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, up?
< 1293490526 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1293490541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes
< 1293490571 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Well, I am using it to make the program versatile. You can modify the S table to adjust the sorting algorithm that my program uses.
< 1293491098 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the correct bibliography citation to use?
< 1293491708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTE TO SELF BEEP BEEP BEEP: (-200, 1000) IS CUBE
< 1293491880 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cube?
< 1293492264 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the reason I'm scared of this episode is it reminds me of VOY
< 1293492449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Cube = 128x128x128
< 1293492457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glass walls/floor. Lit by lava
< 1293492458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lava.
< 1293492485 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :W
< 1293492486 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T
< 1293492487 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F
< 1293492488 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF
< 1293492509 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minecraft bots
< 1293492513 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any?
< 1293492525 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a happy WTF, but still a WTF
< 1293492527 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mobs?
< 1293492549 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not deserve to get an A.
< 1293492582 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bots
< 1293492631 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: is that for the class you forgot about?
< 1293492635 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1293492835 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, got bus error from mcmap
< 1293492836 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf
< 1293492845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I Blame Notch.
< 1293492853 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also not it fails to connect
< 1293492861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That happens sometimes.
< 1293492862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keep tryin'.
< 1293492866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think minecraft.net is the slow.
< 1293493119 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bots
< 1293494313 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293494418 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BLORP
< 1293494460 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was over at a friends' yesterday, and they were playing Rock Guitar Band Hero Idol Game. They told me to play, and I said I only would if I "sung" by playing the melodica through the mic.
< 1293494468 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Long story short, five-minute guitar solo to Free Bird on melodica: Best idea ever?
< 1293494682 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: YES.
< 1293494937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :D
< 1293494981 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They play in some club every Tuesday. If I can figure out a reasonable approximation in a day, I could troll a whole crowd of people who think they're musicians. It would be ... quite entertaining.
< 1293495068 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AaronBurr
< 1293495074 0 :AaronBurr!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur
< 1293495114 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why don't you deserve an A? you know the material, right?
< 1293495213 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, do people who put off half a semester's worth of work for the last 48 hours or so ... beyond what should have been the absolute deadline, deserve As?
< 1293495225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: http://wiki.hey0.net/index.php/Flatfile_Configuration#kits.txt
< 1293495243 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "easy A"
< 1293495246 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes, if you've learned the material.
< 1293495246 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is getting this A really going to be a decent punishment for my brain?
< 1293495263 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, I answered a chapter's review questions without even looking at the chapter
< 1293495283 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: excellent!
< 1293495291 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming you got them right)
< 1293495296 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not "What is X Y Z" sort of things
< 1293495316 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're more out-of-the-box. They test creativity and some understanding, I guess, but not knowledge
< 1293495325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: We already know your university is crap.
< 1293495390 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yeah, that chapter seems pretty useless
< 1293495419 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293495456 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example question, just to confirm?
< 1293495715 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Most people think of security as a cost to projects, products, or services: the cost of analyzing a system for vulnerabilties, the cost of providing products or processes to detect unwanted activities, the cost of products or processes to prevent or mitigate wanted activities, and so on. But security can also be considered a benefit, such as when adding security to a product attacts more customers or enables a provider to raise a product's p
< 1293495715 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rice. Discuss the various ways that security provides economic benefit, not only to an enterprise but also to a nation."
< 1293495842 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1293495846 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293495940 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What else leads us to believe his university is crap?
< 1293495989 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what's the course on? "Ethical implications of software"
< 1293495993 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the fact that it's crap
< 1293496002 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have an IRC network or channel>
< 1293496004 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1293496006 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I'm asking for details.
< 1293496009 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the cool unis do
< 1293496016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: All his courses are taught by stupid people. All his courses have stupid people in them.
< 1293496018 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(we got a Christmas card from Oxford this year!)
< 1293496027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's Random State University with thousands upon thousands upon thousands of students.
< 1293496031 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what's MIT's irc channel?
< 1293496039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And he's in a course titled "Computer Information Systems" (IIRC).
< 1293496050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Or something similarly not-*even*-software-engineering course.
< 1293496065 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Okay, so... He could do *worse*, but we're not exactly talking good here.
< 1293496090 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: dunno
< 1293496093 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they better have one
< 1293496104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo: what's the course on? "Ethical implications of software"
< 1293496105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1293496112 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION usually twitches at the mention of software engineering

< 1293496114 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cough*University of Phoenix*cough*
< 1293496116 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ethic/economic/
< 1293496136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if MIT has an IRC channel they'll be too elitist to let anyone else know about it :)
< 1293496159 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION usually twitches at the idea of programming being a lecture-teachable skill rather than being a hard-earned craft.

< 1293496170 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I twitch at that too
< 1293496173 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so what unis *do* you know with IRC channels, since you clearly have a small sample size?
< 1293496181 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: McGill, UW, and Oxford
< 1293496196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Up there with the idea that a CS degree is a course in programming.
< 1293496202 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh god
< 1293496207 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brick science!
< 1293496232 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the university of phoenix is the anticool
< 1293496260 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cryptography and Computer Security is the course
< 1293496276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Degrees from the Crazy Drunk Hobo School of Dubious Merit are more valuable.
< 1293496294 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: did you cover buffer overruns in extreme detail?
< 1293496314 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. Unless I skipped that material by accident
< 1293496318 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: CS ought to be part of math, and programming should either be part of engineering or obliterated as a profession
< 1293496327 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I didn't real much of the textbook like I was supposed to
< 1293496330 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: like at my school!
< 1293496330 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: CS in my mind *is* a field of mathematics.
< 1293496334 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: your course is fail then
< 1293496341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: And programming is quite obviously a craft.
< 1293496342 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CS absolutely is a field in mathematics
< 1293496351 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming is a craft
< 1293496355 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: To which engineering can be applied.
< 1293496358 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an SE degree is debatably a programming degree
< 1293496366 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's more okay
< 1293496369 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's engineering
< 1293496372 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, ok.
< 1293496395 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, do you want to read the paper I wrote?
< 1293496402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq: CS ought to be part of math, and programming should either be part of engineering or obliterated as a profession
< 1293496406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol @ the latter.
< 1293496411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CS is already mathematics (at decent places).
< 1293496414 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obliterated by an AI
< 1293496418 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you wrote a paper? is it full of complete BS?
< 1293496421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :software engineering (i.e. programming) is a perfectly valid discipline.
< 1293496422 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: decent places are few and far between
< 1293496423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: it's not a "paper".
< 1293496436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: 90% of everything is crap, but you avoid it, don't you?
< 1293496443 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, it's full of not very in depth discussion about a somewhat random hodgepodge of topics
< 1293496456 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it were up to me, "CS" would be dubbed "computational mathematics" or some such.
< 1293496464 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes
< 1293496476 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: CS and CM are two separate disciplines at UW, actually
< 1293496481 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: then no. I think I've heard enough to know that taking that course is not worthwhile
< 1293496493 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CM courses have a high overlap with CS and AM
< 1293496495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: CS is "computing theory".
< 1293496496 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ♥
< 1293496504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: not the same as computability.
< 1293496506 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ucalendar.uwaterloo.ca/1011/COURSE/course-CM.html is the CM courses
< 1293496519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: CS is not about computers and it is not a science; it is about computing, and it is a field of mathematics -- computing theory.
< 1293496524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"computing theorist" isn't as catchy though.
< 1293496529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(How about "mathematician" instead.)
< 1293496543 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, are you sure that the plot for this DS9 episode wasn't cribbed from VOY?
< 1293496556 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Almost certainly the other way around.
< 1293496564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Which episode?
< 1293496566 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: VOY gleefully cribbed stuff poorly.
< 1293496571 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Captive Pursuit
< 1293496575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DS9 is 99.99999% good and Voyager is like 100 - epsilon% bad, so.
< 1293496584 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I look at the CM courses, though
< 1293496586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 1993. It predates Voyager.
< 1293496587 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't quite see the point
< 1293496587 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: how does applying there work? are there a lot of US students?
< 1293496624 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Probably quite a few; it's not terribly hard for a US student to go to Canada for school.
< 1293496632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonus: Canada
< 1293496651 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: thus the question :p
< 1293496682 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: applying? what about it?
< 1293496687 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you apply, you might get accepted...
< 1293496816 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, nvm then
< 1293496834 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you  mean to specific programs?
< 1293496904 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Mathnerd314, where do you go to?
< 1293496918 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is in HS still

< 1293496921 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there are a fair number of US students at UW, btw)
< 1293496922 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1293496933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Vorpal found your throne. also me.
< 1293496934 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're considering applying to UW, I definitely recommend it
< 1293496941 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grade 11?
< 1293496944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you apply, you might get accepted...
< 1293496944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmm, nvm then
< 1293496950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, if I might get /rejected/, what's the point!
< 1293496980 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no, senior with a procrastination habit :p
< 1293497001 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, try not to turn into me
< 1293497014 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: oh. You'd fit in perfectly then!
< 1293497025 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: parents are reviewing essays ATM
< 1293497026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all your highschool year names are stupid
< 1293497051 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: which name would this be?
< 1293497057 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it seems it is next to the cube being built
< 1293497072 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I concur with elliott
< 1293497079 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: freshman sophomore junior senior
< 1293497080 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth
< 1293497083 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially sophomore
< 1293497091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: and then it STARTS OVER AGAIN AT "COLLEGE" WHAT
< 1293497098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah, I'm a freshman. But last year I was a senior!
< 1293497115 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grades, forms, or years please
< 1293497139 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering how screwed up my college experience has been, I don't like to use those terms
< 1293497144 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: don't forget the missing metric system either :p
< 1293497229 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one is just funny
< 1293497236 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you should see UW
< 1293497247 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm?
< 1293497259 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nth year doesn't even mean much
< 1293497267 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of co-op, failures, etc.
< 1293497356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Considering how screwed up my college experience has been, I don't like to use those terms
< 1293497357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1293497377 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, first few semesters, didn't have a full course load
< 1293497378 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc.
< 1293497401 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that too
< 1293497407 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of funny, actually
< 1293497431 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the registrar's office tries to keep track of which term you are in by assigning "1A" "1B" "2A" to people but half the time it doesn't work
< 1293497449 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and "4C" and "4D" terms happen)
< 1293497457 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though those are officiall still 4B
< 1293497462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UW might be fun to go to.
< 1293497480 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is
< 1293497503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm biased though, I like Canada :P
< 1293497519 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: you should apply!
< 1293497524 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, skyping again?
< 1293497555 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: looking at the admission stuff; confusing website
< 1293497569 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: OUAC?
< 1293497571 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1293497679 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, if you are thinking of both CS and math, the thing about CS is it's harder to get into (you can't just declare it) and you need to pay extra $$. They won't let you in after long enough because of the $$ and they won't generally let you take upper-year CS courses without approval if you aren't in CS; also they get pissed if non-CS students try to take too many because they want your $$.
< 1293497744 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like the best thing to do is stay the hell away from CS
< 1293497765 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: some of the upper-year CS courses are awesome
< 1293497767 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I think I'll stick with the nice US schools where you can switch majors anytime you feel like it :p
< 1293497778 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: whice ones?
< 1293497812 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: non-CS non-Acturial Science math majors are a la carte
< 1293497830 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: trains, compilers, programming languages, formal languages and parsing, graphics...
< 1293497843 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's trains?
< 1293497875 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real-time programming
< 1293497986 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: colleges I'm applying to have all those and more, so not too worried about missing anything
< 1293498006 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are missing something :D
< 1293498539 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but I'm guessing it's mainly the pain and suffering of another college app
< 1293498572 0 :wth!~tianhou@2001:250:4001:302:223:8bff:fe54:5b7a JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293498676 0 :wth!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1293499128 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1293499227 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293499284 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293500120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yep, but I'm guessing it's mainly the pain and suffering of another college app
< 1293500134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: ah yes, the famous "Wrestling A Snake With Spikes All Over It To Death" test
< 1293500137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro can tell you all about it
< 1293500234 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230230205.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293500257 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293500380 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1293500380 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293500458 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1293500521 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-221-22.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293500667 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1293500823 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293501096 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I did exactly one application. It took an hour for the formal application, and like 2 hours for the extra info form
< 1293501111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: And then you had to wrestle a snake with spikes all over it to death, yes?
< 1293501269 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nope
< 1293501287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Look at how they lie.
< 1293501313 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: but you're from Canada
< 1293501382 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230230205.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293501525 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293501690 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: that's true
< 1293501706 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: oh, I also had to mail them a transcript
< 1293501726 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: I don't know about the process for foreign students, but I can't imagine it being much different from what I went through
< 1293501746 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I was out-of-ontario
< 1293501779 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.win 2
< 1293501781 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever.
< 1293501797 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION distracts himself with supercompilation

< 1293501807 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :supercompilation?
< 1293501899 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, never heard of it before, but it sounds ool
< 1293501900 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cool
< 1293502066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. Specialisers are the only decent compilers. :p
< 1293502090 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the difference ?
< 1293502106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: well nobody really knows what "supercompilation" means.
< 1293502113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes it means specialisers, sometimes i have no idea what the hell it means
< 1293502223 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;5;54
< 1293502294 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: managed to define products in terms of universal cone btw
< 1293502300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: awesome
< 1293502474 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, again mc
< 1293502521 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230230205.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293502661 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293502890 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: theoretically.. one could implement all sorts of categories and instance their limits etc etc.. at this point
< 1293502925 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if it's a good idea though
< 1293503401 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :categories?
< 1293503407 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Set?
< 1293503469 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: youre such a dickface. lol
< 1293503484 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why
< 1293503488 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1293503571 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your little temper tantrum against haskell
< 1293503584 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want my mommy!
< 1293503624 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1293503629 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when was this?
< 1293503631 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must read logs
< 1293503666 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230230205.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293503675 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/es29o/the_air_on_which_haskell_programmers_seem_to/
< 1293503730 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has it been proven that all imperitive data structures have an equally efficient functional version?
< 1293503828 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1293503828 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293503871 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: iteration is equivalent to recursion?
< 1293503971 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm?
< 1293503998 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there's an efficient functional queue, but can the same be said of all other data structures?
< 1293504066 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends on what you mean by "efficient" "functional" and "data structure"
< 1293504198 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"as fast as C" "written in haskell" "uses 'data'/classes"
< 1293504215 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1293504217 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :equiv time complexities
< 1293504365 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: do we get to design CPUs that are optimized for functional code not imperative code
< 1293504367 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1293504377 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if not, then C will always have the possibility for advantage
< 1293504430 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to pretend that microoptimizations don't exist?
< 1293504462 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293504541 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :World
< 1293504546 0 :World!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur
< 1293504634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Quadrescence: do we get to design CPUs that are optimized for functional code not imperative code
< 1293504636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Please yes.
< 1293504642 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :3
< 1293504647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Quadrescence: youre such a dickface. lol
< 1293504648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :concurred
< 1293504654 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive tried to think of ways to do this, actually
< 1293504661 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the opposite
< 1293504672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"thrive reeks of foul stench of cargo cult" are words that could only come from reading the loper os blog waaay too much.
< 1293504676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: http://www.cs.york.ac.uk/fp/reduceron/
< 1293504683 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you need mutation for ceratain things
< 1293504689 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the only thing i can think of is something that does in-place rewrites of ASTs
< 1293504691 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night →
< 1293504697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: not really true?
< 1293504699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: http://www.cs.york.ac.uk/fp/reduceron/
< 1293504707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: it does lazy graph reduction
< 1293504715 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting!
< 1293504721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: implemented on FPGA etc.
< 1293504725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memos are very interesting
< 1293504726 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sexy
< 1293504736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: core language is "typeless", it's basically just graph-rewriting-lambda-calculus
< 1293504748 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats an interesting nothing
< 1293504756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: an interesting nothing? xD
< 1293504762 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: persistent vs ephemeral
< 1293504762 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..
< 1293504772 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notion
< 1293504775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: well sure
< 1293504776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Has it been proven that all imperitive data structures have an equally efficient functional version?
< 1293504782 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid fingers
< 1293504799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: theoretical results IIRC suggest that functional languages are "inherently" less efficient than imperative ones in certain cases ... at least that's what Okasaki says, but: sufficiently smart compiler.
< 1293504812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, as Okasaki goes on to prove in his book... yes, basically, all the structures you can think of have efficient functional versions.
< 1293504832 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230230205.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293504855 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yeah I already did Set though
< 1293504875 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: what's Set's limit?
< 1293504888 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: huh?
< 1293504895 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:21 < j-invariant> elliott: theoretically.. one could implement all sorts of categories and instance their limits etc etc.. at this point
< 1293504900 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said you did Set?
< 1293504912 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: lol
< 1293504930 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :limits: terminal and initial object, products, sums, equaliziers  lots more things too
< 1293504937 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: did it ever occur to you to simply define Monoids over Num rather than over Int
< 1293504939 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set has them all
< 1293504952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: REEKS OF FOUL STENCH
< 1293504974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i wouldn't bother talking to Quadrescence anyway considering he's never once talked about esolangs. or done anything other than be irritating really.
< 1293504990 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I didn't implement any limits
< 1293504990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey, i respect anyone who likes wasting their time :p
< 1293505044 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293505050 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: well then why did you say you did it already?
< 1293505062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"one could implement all sorts [...] and instance their limits [..] at this point"
< 1293505065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one *could*
< 1293505075 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:53 < j-invariant> coppro: yeah I already did Set though
< 1293505102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: he already implemented Set, not found its limit. one would presume.
< 1293505130 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :limits
< 1293505180 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so you respect me for the unpaid project I worked on?
< 1293505189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what?
< 1293505193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. shut up.
< 1293505440 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: do you know much category theory
< 1293505529 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I am starting to doubt whether it really does magically solve all problems :/
< 1293505551 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yes
< 1293505554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: It does! If you believe in it.
< 1293505555 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I'm just trolling
< 1293505562 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1293505600 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's what I hate about christmas - "if you just beleive in something with zero evidence or reasonable explanation... then you will find it!"
< 1293505606 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :christmas films*
< 1293505617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: like religion! *ducks*
< 1293505638 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's probably a general flaw of human thought
< 1293505649 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why celebrate it...
< 1293505718 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's the same with the loch ness monster, there's even a film that pulls this
< 1293505728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully it's possible to overcome our cognitive biases ... but very hard
< 1293505730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: gh
< 1293505732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ugh
< 1293506036 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230230205.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293506061 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UFO films don't usually do that though
< 1293506229 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's more like science fiction
< 1293506250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1293506412 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293506733 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230230205.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293506947 0 :p_q!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1293506957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pikachurin
< 1293506960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Please /nick pikhqrn
< 1293507040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new mcmap out. :p
< 1293507045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relevant only to noansi users.
< 1293507628 0 :Wamanuz4!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1293508012 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293508043 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293509336 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you should put algebra on these categories :
< 1293509359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yeah that does not sound painful at all :D
< 1293509364 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it will sort of be like a 20x more difficult version of what you did before..
< 1293509366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if i get this algebra thing working nicely
< 1293509525 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly question: what is the difference between an FSA and a Turing Machine? is it the unboundedness of the memory ?
< 1293509588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: yes pretty much
< 1293509600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: a finite state machine can be written as a huge table of "state1 -> state2"
< 1293509616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: e.g., for your computer, assuming no IO devices, the contents of registers, RAM, disk, etc.
< 1293509621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the new contents, after executing one instruction
< 1293509628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this list is finite since your RAM/disk are finite
< 1293509653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: of course you won't find a real turing machine ... but TC languages are more interesting than FSAs generally
< 1293509694 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:55.10]  Quadrescence: did it ever occur to you to simply define Monoids over Num rather than over Int // Did it ever occur to you that a monoid might not actually support what Num does?
< 1293509714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um since Int is a Num ...
< 1293509740 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...............
< 1293509741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Finite-state_automaton
< 1293509748 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I just read that
< 1293509752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: heh :)
< 1293509786 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: r u implying i should declare all Num t as monoids
< 1293509793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: if you think you have a fairly good grasp on what turing completeness is, why not let my languages plunge you back into deep confusion: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Befunge/index.php http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck/w/index.php%3Ftitle%3DTalk:Brainfuck/index.php
< 1293509836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Befunge/index.php has a proof that the first is simultaneously TC and not, depending on your definition)
< 1293509844 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hello Quadrescence
< 1293509850 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey bsmntbombdood
< 1293509850 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i heard you where stirring up some shit
< 1293509855 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i guess so
< 1293509874 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293509908 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, my understanding of a TC language is that given unlimited memory it can compute any algorithm - is that correct?
< 1293509916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Define algorithm :)
< 1293509928 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: a turing complete language can emulate a turing machine
< 1293509928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: The most common definition is that you can simulate any Turing machine in it.
< 1293509931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: This, however, has ambiguity.
< 1293509933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Uh, no.
< 1293509937 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um yea
< 1293509939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: There are plenty of non-universal Turing machines.
< 1293509944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: So. No.
< 1293509947 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1293509952 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand Brainfuck/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brainfuck/index.php :S
< 1293509957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And being able to simulate one doesn't make you TC.
< 1293509958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: why not?
< 1293509959 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A universal turing machine can emulate any turing machine - correct
< 1293509970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: yes.
< 1293509986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: but when you step outside of things that are strictly turing machines and try and relate this concept to other languages it is difficult :)
< 1293509986 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the implementation really do what it says?
< 1293509999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yes (but it's written in Scheme-1, which has only super-Turing implementations)
< 1293510006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: note the "H" procedure, it's a Turing halt-checker
< 1293510016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see http://esolangs.org/wiki/Banana_Scheme
< 1293510035 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curious: which class should I expect to learn this stuff in?
< 1293510035 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I didn't notice "Scheme-1" was something special
< 1293510058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: computability theory
< 1293510064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/theory of computation
< 1293510075 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION didn't see that on my course list :-\

< 1293510078 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks again

< 1293510147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: btw if you do (define (H n p) #t) that interp actually works
< 1293510154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course just loops forever on invalid programs ;)
< 1293510204 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Automata theory and Formal Languages
< 1293510205 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1293510212 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: look for anything with "computation" in the name like "languages and computation" or intros to computer science theory
< 1293510222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: pretty much, yep
< 1293510228 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that might have it
< 1293510230 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( 4 more years
< 1293510231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: see e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automata_theory#Classes_of_automata
< 1293510246 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wishes I could that class now

< 1293510261 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh - perfect
< 1293510265 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was looking for such a list
< 1293510267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: #esoteric suffices pretty well for learning this stuff, it's just a bit of a random walk so it takes time ;)
< 1293510268 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: you can, just get a book
< 1293510270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that list isn't really perfect.
< 1293510273 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: should implement scheme-n in Coq
< 1293510280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: heh. NO :)
< 1293510285 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, recommendations ?
< 1293510289 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just make it so that executing a program is interactive theorem proving
< 1293510289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: (you could with axioms but it wouldn't construct ofc)
< 1293510319 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: what do you know already, both in math, and compsci?
< 1293510328 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, formally or informally?
< 1293510332 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :informally
< 1293510358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g'nigh'
< 1293510366 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know most major programming languages and a few esoteric ones. I've read an operating systems book cover to cover
< 1293510375 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I get how programming languages are compiled
< 1293510380 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats about it
< 1293510382 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Do you know the lambda calculus?
< 1293510388 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :math is <= calc
< 1293510409 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is a freshmen - so I havn't taken most university math classes yet

< 1293510412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1293510451 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: What programming languages are you comfortable programming in
< 1293510524 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, any particular book to read on computational theory? or do I need more of a math background first?
< 1293510524 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if so which book should I read on that?
< 1293510548 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: well, despite its name, lambda calculus is really just a model of computation
< 1293510559 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Have you read SICP?
< 1293510635 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, ?
< 1293510685 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Read the book "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs"; and do all of the exercises. It will introduce you to a broad array of which are highly beneficial to know before diving into computability.
< 1293510702 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, see pm
< 1293510708 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott left
< 1293510716 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:26.25] << elliott (~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott) has quit: Quit: Leaving
< 1293510779 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm comfortable in C, C++, Java, PHP, VB/QB (years ago), Bash, a few others.
< 1293510791 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know Python, Perl, and a few others - but not that well
< 1293510803 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs" ---> which author?
< 1293510815 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abelson and Sussman
< 1293510826 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googles

< 1293510829 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't worry, the book will not rehash stuff you already know
< 1293510839 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to learn Scheme
< 1293510852 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i mean, some things you might know, but it's not a Learn To Program In Language X)
< 1293510853 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/ --> ok - that book is now on my list
< 1293510873 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :creative commons textbook
< 1293510874 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I said, you should do all of the exercises. If you do, you'll learn a lot.
< 1293510874 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WIN
< 1293510898 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, I will
< 1293510909 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its winter vacation now for me - so I should have time to do so
< 1293510944 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: You'll learn a good deal about computability in it too. So you'll actually have a head start if you decide you want to read pure computability theory.
< 1293511023 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, thanks for the link
< 1293511044 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads

< 1293511064 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Oh, do you have a Scheme implementation installed?
< 1293511069 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, yeah
< 1293511073 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which?
< 1293511141 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, chicken
< 1293511154 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: great, that's my favorite
< 1293511187 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I havn't started yet
< 1293511193 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be my first functional language :-)
< 1293511211 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :procedural
< 1293511219 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: The nice thing is that it's functional, but also has imperative and whatever constructs too.
< 1293511369 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to do scheme -> haskell -> list
< 1293511371 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lisp
< 1293511383 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: well Scheme is a lisp
< 1293511409 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm?
< 1293511423 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant the regular lisp
< 1293511429 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Common Lisp
< 1293511430 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: You mean "Common Lisp"
< 1293511439 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1293511443 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any reason why?
< 1293511485 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was told that scheme is the easiest functional language to learn. Then I wanted to learn something different (non-lisp)
< 1293511500 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I want Common Lisp somewhere on the list
< 1293511568 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme might suit your Lisp desire. It's like Common Lisp, except a lot more elegant
< 1293511682 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: you might be interested in http://symbo1ics.com/blog/?p=729
< 1293511706 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bookmarks

< 1293512811 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1293513380 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, maybe your first functional language should be purely functional?
< 1293513417 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although hmm, that could be throwing you into the deep end I guess.
< 1293513513 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I tried haskel already - but I got a little confused -- I guess I'm so used to the imperative structure that I need a crutch for my first step
< 1293513583 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION needs to go to sleep - gnight everyone

< 1293513716 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night variable
< 1293513734 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... an esolang whose functionality varies based on time of day
< 1293513748 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night variables only accessible at night, or somesuch
< 1293513752 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1293513774 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: it's been done but more extremely
< 1293514126 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293514241 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: you wrote this http://symbo1ics.com/blog/?p=788
< 1293514386 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes...
< 1293514445 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: I haven't read it yet
< 1293514453 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: You should collect responses and criticisms
< 1293514483 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit is collecting them for me
< 1293514524 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: into a blog post
< 1293514541 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1293514637 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293514757 0 :kanzure!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1293514986 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: do you have a different language to continue this in?
< 1293515266 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: what is cargo cult mathematics
< 1293515395 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: yes, every number is a monoid
< 1293515416 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a category has one object, then it's a monoid
< 1293515428 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's true
< 1293515434 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I was talking about Haskell
< 1293515446 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can have a monoidal category, which is a different thing
< 1293515464 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: what are you currently doing with your life again?
< 1293515467 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, more  of this?
< 1293515500 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still talking about it in #haskell too
< 1293515551 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I need to find somethign to do actually - I welcome suggestions
< 1293515586 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: they're talking about it in haskell?
< 1293515592 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that is very true
< 1293515596 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmhmm
< 1293515730 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: no, I mean school, work, etc.
< 1293515738 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are you actually just doing nothing
< 1293515748 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: talking about what in #haskell?
< 1293515763 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence not understanding haskell
< 1293515774 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I just finished a maths course so I need to find something now
< 1293515795 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence obviously knows haskell
< 1293515808 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just because he said something vaugely acidic that people decide to belittle him
< 1293515835 0 :cal153!~cal@rrcs-24-43-224-194.west.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293515868 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just one math course?
< 1293515881 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1293516326 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: why dont' you want to talk about it
< 1293516384 0 :iamcal!~cal@rrcs-24-43-224-194.west.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293516385 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293516419 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I don't feel like making a blog post with the collection of everything. That is what the comments are for. Although I am required to accept a comment, I accept them all if they are not spam.
< 1293516486 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: but you gave up on haskell for this... my question is what will you use instead?
< 1293516530 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I gave up on writing the "tutorial".
< 1293516550 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I wasn't very fond of Haskell before it anyway)
< 1293516560 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My previous posts suggest what language I primarily use.
< 1293516564 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you give up on this problem?
< 1293516613 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. I wrote a "haskell for mathematicians" post. I was going to write another one. But I decided not to as a result of not wanting to explain the deficiencies (in my opinion) of the language.
< 1293516837 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not even sure what Quadrescence is complaining about
< 1293516852 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it just that 5 is a number instead of an Int?
< 1293516906 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is you can't define an algebra heirarchy in a useful way in haskell
< 1293516910 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typed
< 1293516933 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can
< 1293516938 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you can't
< 1293516940 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: has anyone done it?
< 1293516954 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :numeric prelude, etc
< 1293516957 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people have sort of done it with the Numeric-Prelude
< 1293516995 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure that numeric-prelude doesn't suck?
< 1293517036 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked through the code. I don't want to say it sucks. It is better (mathematically) than the current prelude. But I wouldn't say it's ~great~
< 1293517136 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: My complaint was also about the community.
< 1293517204 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: can you elaborat eon that please
< 1293517342 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: http://symbo1ics.com/blog/?p=788#comment-876
< 1293517479 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In mathematics, we strive to rid our expositions of ambiguity, and we deem the expositions with the least ambiguity as “rigorous.”  <-- this doesn't fit with my picture at all
< 1293517483 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what about you?
< 1293517487 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you do
< 1293517561 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: There are individuals, however, who thrive on the “mysteriousness” afforded by this unapproachability. They revel, rather than find distaste, in the “genius” image pinned to those who can speak in this technical tongue. <-- this is very astute and important observation
< 1293517595 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: rigorous: 	rigidly accurate; allowing no deviation from a standard; "rigorous application of the law"; "a strict vegetarian"
< 1293517620 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means if something is less open for interpretation --- less ambiguous --- it is more rigorous
< 1293517635 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: a kind of pseudo-mathematics <-- consider  (a -> b) -> (f a -> f b),  it should really be Hom a b -> Hom (f a) (f b)
< 1293517645 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even simpler example than Monad
< 1293517812 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: something is probably wrong when you’re using Functor f => Algebra f b -> GAlgebra f (Cofree f) a -> (f :~> f) -> FixF f -> a <--- where did you find that code?
< 1293517823 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't skype... :-)
< 1293517832 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: the good ol' http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Zygohistomorphic_prepromorphisms
< 1293517939 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: can you make any constructive suggestions?
< 1293517988 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rename monad to something else, delete "morphism" from your vocabulary unless you have reason to need it
< 1293518187 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: that's not radical enough
< 1293518276 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, rename haskell to Fortran++
< 1293518287 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1293518291 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortress?
< 1293518315 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1293518336 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Fortress is just upgraded Fortran)
< 1293518341 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services
< 1293518349 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note that ++ doesn't imply upgraded; see C++)
< 1293518363 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293518370 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: anyway what is your goal in programming
< 1293518391 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really have a goal in programming
< 1293518397 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not in general
< 1293518406 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314
< 1293518407 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1293518482 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish someone would talk to me about something interesting
< 1293518521 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go ask #haskell to talk to you about zygohistomorphic prepromorphisms
< 1293518539 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I talk to haskell for a bit but it died down
< 1293518573 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the truth I released about Haskell is sinking into their minds~
< 1293518581 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1293518700 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1293518822 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-139.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293518873 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: The issue is that fundamentally, the entire type system does not work with your idea of what "mathematics" is.
< 1293518875 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which seems to actually consist of your interpretation of a set of common definitions *in* mathematics.
< 1293518908 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: there's a reason why the post was put in the category "Opinion"
< 1293518996 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And no, the issue is that fundamentally, Haskell is trying to be mathematical (in my opinion!!!) by interpreting 5 as Num t => t, when the most sane option (in my opinion!) is Integer (or Int, which should be a special case anyway)
< 1293519031 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not work in Haskell unless you want to have *no easy form of literals* for any other numeric type.
< 1293519073 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does not work because it was not designed to work ;D
< 1293519096 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, if it were to work, then type inference would break.
< 1293519120 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you no longer have Haskell.
< 1293519137 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dono't know how anyone programs in haskell
< 1293519138 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inference worked fine in my implementation.
< 1293519154 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you find that you write some code then start to feel like it's all wrong and stop?
< 1293519158 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, with an implicit cast from Integer to Num t => t?
< 1293519163 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That inherently breaks it all.
< 1293519173 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: s/in haskell//
< 1293519176 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: just write   int 5  what is the problem?
< 1293519177 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, with '5' defined as an INteger to begin with.
< 1293519194 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Okay, but that makes a lot of stuff a *royal fucking pain*.
< 1293519201 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Like what?
< 1293519209 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Every other instance of Num!
< 1293519227 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How?
< 1293519257 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fromInteger 2 :: Int) + (fromInteger 2 :: Int)
< 1293519268 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's just syntax, deal with it
< 1293519282 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Yes, and it's still agony incarnate.
< 1293519307 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you need to be able to ignore taht sort of thing if you want to spot the deeper problems
< 1293519310 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Or scrap "Int" and use a library if you need machine precision integers specifically.
< 1293519313 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Not to mention, any use of "x + 1" would be forced to have the type of Integer.
< 1293519324 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1293519328 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not Float. Not Natural. Not Rational. Integer.
< 1293519342 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which... Defeats the whole point of *having* typeclasses.
< 1293519376 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's a shame no one has yet invented any idea of contagion.
< 1293519384 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Contagion?
< 1293519398 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like Integer + Float -> Float
< 1293519411 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: it's impossible to implement that in haskell
< 1293519443 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echm* Learn you some Hindley-Milner type inference.
< 1293519455 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: you need something more expressive than typeclasses
< 1293519456 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I wrote an implementation just the other day in lisp.
< 1293519498 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And did you also solve the halting problem before riding away on your unicorn?
< 1293519543 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What's the issue? You seem to be saying that defined rules about contagion prohibit the ability to type.
< 1293519552 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do
< 1293519557 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No they don't.
< 1293519565 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They prohibit the ability to *infer* type.
< 1293519576 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SoRrY, ~inferrrrrrrrrrrrrrr~
< 1293519581 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: you can't solve LUB of a poset in Hindly-Milner, not even HM + Typeclasses
< 1293519626 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, some Haskell extensions also cannot have types inferred, but those end up being special cases, rather than exceptionally common use-cases.
< 1293519653 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree that "x + 1" cannot be inferred if x cannot be inferred (under my model)
< 1293519724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, the whole point of typeclasses is that you can define instances later.
< 1293519740 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the memo
< 1293519745 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are literally arguing against the entire *point* of Haskell's type system.
< 1293519754 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not merely the Num typeclass.
< 1293519758 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem to not get the point of what I wrote
< 1293519758 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Literally the entire thing.
< 1293519764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And probably every other form of polymorphism.
< 1293519828 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny, it seems to me "It can't figure out from (Num t, Monoid t) => [t] that it's [Integer] because I happened to define only one instance so far." is what you're saying.
< 1293519837 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is, uh, kinda inherent in polymorphism.
< 1293519839 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, indeed
< 1293519862 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you two - be more interesting :/
< 1293519866 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just arguing past each other
< 1293519880 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is used in almost every programming language.
< 1293519882 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remind me; is there a way to define types in ghci?
< 1293519900 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Uh, should be just the same as in Haskell source.
< 1293519942 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `data'
< 1293519953 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, apparently not.
< 1293520047 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is too bad haskell doesn't have finite subtype inference, which would fix all the numeric bullshit
< 1293520078 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also too bad that I don't have a function that can tell me if any arbitrary function on arbitrary input will halt.
< 1293520081 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also want a pony.
< 1293520085 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"finite subtype inference"?
< 1293520095 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i didn't say arbitrary subtype inference
< 1293520102 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're not aware, what i said is decidable.
< 1293520119 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the paper by Duggan
< 1293520121 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That said, the Num typeclass is entirely crappy. Just not for any reasons you mentioned.
< 1293520198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it really bothers me that Float is an instance of it.
< 1293520214 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I hate Floats in almost every language
< 1293520268 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does everyone want inference to be complete?
< 1293520276 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea, I don't
< 1293520284 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: It's a nicety.
< 1293520296 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One that certain extensions to Haskell breaks, anyways.
< 1293520302 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: exactly.. it's just a nicety, it doesn't give you any theoretical guarantee about actual programs
< 1293520323 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that's approximately my philosophy
< 1293520324 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/breaks/break/
< 1293520355 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: What about using category theory to specify and organize programs?
< 1293520383 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I think it can provide nice theoretical underpinnings.
< 1293520399 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know of anyone who thinks they're doing lambda calculus when they're coding in e.g. Scheme
< 1293520402 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like how the type system just makes sure your syntax is good
< 1293520407 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, people tend to gloss over at the word "monad".
< 1293520418 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally don't see a huge amount of applicability of category theory to programming theory
< 1293520421 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I could be wrong
< 1293520424 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could act as a meta type system that makes keeps the semantics of your code in check
< 1293520436 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatwhat
< 1293520507 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Well, there kinda is, but it's a bit hidden unless you're looking for it, usually.
< 1293520542 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, by the same notion category theory has applicability to a child's arithmetic class, so hey. :P
< 1293520547 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well, in some sense there is, I suppose, but I have yet to see evidence of something that makes my life as a programmer easier
< 1293520566 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I was just saying purely theoretically.
< 1293520592 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the development of integers from peano arithmetic helps anyone do their taxes
< 1293520597 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Theoretical underpinnings of programming languages are useless to me unless they actually help me program
< 1293520604 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but they help with other stuff
< 1293520613 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :numbers are widely applicable
< 1293520620 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming langauges are a comparitively narrow field
< 1293520621 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ok under that definition, yeah, it's mostly useless
< 1293520632 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: numbers are useful, sure!
< 1293520636 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so advancements of number theory are more likely to have useful application
< 1293520658 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas advancements in PL theory are respectively less likely to have useful application
< 1293520665 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: do you program haskell?
< 1293520668 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that PL theory can't have useful application - see type inference or GC!
< 1293520672 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: not as much as I should
< 1293520718 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Arguably, monads actually *have* application.
< 1293520730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But even then, you're not caring much about the category theory about it.
< 1293520747 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're just caring that it's some form of object with bind and return functioned defined.
< 1293520762 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, the same applies for most of the "category theory" things in Haskell.
< 1293520786 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, sure it's kinda from category theory and all, but category theory itself is basically irrelevant to it.
< 1293520801 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and contradictory in some of the stupider cases, like Monads not being Functors)
< 1293520889 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1293521131 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is haskell.org down
< 1293521149 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to do that often.
< 1293521156 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it's on a shitty server.
< 1293521241 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(after all, the server software was written in haskell!)
< 1293521241 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, something I would like for haskell to have would be typeclasses that could somehow be instantiated with more than one set of functions
< 1293521242 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kid
< 1293521275 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I am well aware of the size of wrenches this throws at it :( )
< 1293521287 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: hehe
< 1293521414 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Ow ow ow.
< 1293521440 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, {ZZ, +} is a monoid, but {ZZ, *} is too
< 1293521450 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea
< 1293521461 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been working on that in the system i'm making
< 1293521489 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: what abot mathematically structured programming?
< 1293521508 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"system I'm making"?
< 1293521509 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do tell?
< 1293521525 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://symbo1ics.com/blog/?page_id=81
< 1293521591 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that doesn't say much
< 1293521593 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe see the PDF
< 1293521603 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the INFO section
< 1293521620 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only really has notes and ideas, it's nothing solid; i didn't even plan on releasing it
< 1293521906 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: looking over the section on algebras; you must be very careful about implicit introduction of ==
< 1293521961 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeed
< 1293522008 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm generally assuming there that there exists an algorithm to determine if x == y; but yes you're right
< 1293522017 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a fun one:
< 1293522034 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if A,B are objects in category C. A = B means that there is an isomorphism between A and B
< 1293522051 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but to define composition you need equality of objects
< 1293522062 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to check the composition is well formed)
< 1293522096 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but equality is not defined in terms of isomorphisms
< 1293522109 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are you just using that as an example of where = might mean something different?
< 1293522136 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: I like the notion of associative sequences but I don't immediately see applicability
< 1293522161 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the ability to do pattern matching with associative functions
< 1293522183 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm bad example
< 1293522185 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: do you know Knuth-Bendix algorithm?
< 1293522188 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1293522202 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help me !! :)
< 1293522223 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know category theory, you should be able to figure out KB
< 1293522244 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wan tyou to help me with Knuth-Bendix but you don't have to if you don't want
< 1293522263 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am just lazy and it is late
< 1293522292 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool alg though
< 1293522683 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: btw, have you looked at proof verifiers?
< 1293522693 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, extensively
< 1293522733 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a difficult balance i am trying to strike
< 1293522765 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that of practicality/usability and that of "correctness" overall
< 1293522864 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where are you in life, btw?
< 1293522933 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am working on these projects full time at my father's home, if that's what you're asking, and which I'm exceptionally grateful for
< 1293522958 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I asked you
< 1293522990 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: oh, sorry, I missed that. first-year undergrad
< 1293522995 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: oh okay cool
< 1293522998 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: educational background?
< 1293523058 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No formal (i.e. admitted-into) Uni background, but I go over to the university and audit a good number of graduate classes. I did 6 classes last semester
< 1293523081 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah, nice
< 1293523122 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly does auditing entail at that university?
< 1293523141 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just went to the uni and sat in the courses.
< 1293523146 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1293523150 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a formal audit then
< 1293523159 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a "formal audit"
< 1293523166 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: you can get audit status in courses here
< 1293523174 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293523183 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gets you more priveleges than just sitting in sometimes
< 1293523190 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: You're registered as an auditer. You're formally part of the class, just not actually expected to do coursework.
< 1293523199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1293523200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293523210 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, you don't get any *credit* for it, but that's neither here nor there.
< 1293523221 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course
< 1293523236 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. Well I don't know what benefits that would necessarily give. Maybe it's just a way to keep you happy about paying? :)
< 1293523249 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: usually you don't have to pay extra
< 1293523254 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess if there were laboratory courses, that would make sense.
< 1293523267 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in practice, you pay for the grade
< 1293523273 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1293523300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also makes sense if the university ends up having nearly-full classes.
< 1293523321 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you might get benefits like the ability to see reserved library books or access restricted online material
< 1293523326 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Registering to audit means that you actually know whether or not you're getting a seat.
< 1293523363 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah, makes sense, but seemed not to matter for the stuff I did, as there were usually no more than 20 kiddos
< 1293523364 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that someone might squat th eseat
< 1293523374 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, with graduate courses, it's probably not going to matter.
< 1293523375 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, for grad courses it's probably not a major concern
< 1293523395 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless the prof gives you funny looks.
< 1293523401 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha
< 1293523410 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the prof doesn't know who anyone is usually
< 1293523435 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just though I was Another Guy for a while
< 1293523455 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293523479 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suspicion did increase when the weirdo lie groups/lie algebras prof had a "small-group" style of teaching
< 1293523491 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we all got into small groups every day and answered questions
< 1293523502 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: which uni?
< 1293523511 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :university of minnesota: twin cities
< 1293523525 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a weird class
< 1293523530 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293523604 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the two guys I got paired with were extremely quiet and anti-social :(
< 1293523633 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just mumbled "mrmrmrmrmrmr orthogonal matrix mrmrmrmrmrmrmrmr"
< 1293523643 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds fun though, I never had that pleasure
< 1293523648 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it wasn't
< 1293523657 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like it could be, but it was a flop
< 1293523670 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one ever knew what was going on since the prof didn't actually teach
< 1293523888 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :teaching mathematics must be fucking miserable
< 1293523931 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least to undergrads
< 1293524060 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will almost certainly take several grad courses in my undergrad career
< 1293524090 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: see the logs
< 1293524105 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we were talking about your post for a while
< 1293524121 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: too lazy
< 1293524278 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1293524303 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god, there's a plan at my school that actually requires Convex Optimization and Analysis to graduate
< 1293524308 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahahahaha poor sods
< 1293524322 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Analysis
< 1293524338 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh 'Convex Optimization and Analysis' is a single thing
< 1293524345 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1293524349 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a course at my school
< 1293524360 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that sounds very...
< 1293524367 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there are some good algorithms in Convex Optimization but I haven't studied it
< 1293524375 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun >_>
< 1293524380 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it hs been described as the most rape to ever be perpetrated in a single course
< 1293524405 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably make you use MATLAB, so understandable)
< 1293524416 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1293524420 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very far from it
< 1293524566 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1293524581 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its enrolment this term was 9
< 1293524587 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly 2 of them were undergrads
< 1293524590 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know both of them)
< 1293524597 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1293524631 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a cross-listed undergrad/grad course
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< 1293549225 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WONKOTDOOG
< 1293549445 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293549454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:31:42  elliott, see pm
< 1293549487 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mighten be a _tad_ difficult
< 1293549534 0 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.125.212 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293549535 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1293549664 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:33:08  rename monad to something else, delete "morphism" from your vocabulary unless you have reason to need it
< 1293549676 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: oh, oh, and rename "Commutative" to OrderDoesn'tMatter too??
< 1293549681 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a warm fuzzy idea
< 1293549708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1293549711 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:49:56  pikhq: And no, the issue is that fundamentally, Haskell is trying to be mathematical (in my opinion!!!) by interpreting 5 as Num t => t, when the most sane option (in my opinion!) is Integer (or Int, which should be a special case anyway)
< 1293549716 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore haskell REEKS OF THE FOUL STENCH
< 1293549734 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously you are the most whiny idiot i have ever seen. and that's counting myself.
< 1293549775 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now now don't be so humble
< 1293549802 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*,
< 1293549822 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:04:26  you're just arguing past each other
< 1293549835 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it even an argument? Quadrescence is just wrong and he doesn't really care, we're just yelling at him.
< 1293549994 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:58:01  hah, nice
< 1293549994 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:58:42  what exactly does auditing entail at that university?
< 1293550000 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you see they get out the e-meter ...
< 1293550032 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either elliott_ saw the same reddit post as i did or this is synchronicity...
< 1293550045 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: erm which post, i haven't loaded reddit yet today
< 1293550046 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well i have now)
< 1293550060 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cadencewatch.com/420-watch classy
< 1293550060 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll have to reload myself
< 1293550111 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the top r/pics one
< 1293550142 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. the top post on reddit frontpage for non-logged in users)
< 1293550173 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1293550183 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: isn't that a rather _tenuous_ bit of synchronicity :)
< 1293550203 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293550211 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i didn't know the scientology meaning of "auditing" until that post
< 1293550313 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:17:25 --- join: elliott (~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott) joined #esoteric
< 1293550313 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:17:34  20:31:42  elliott, see pm
< 1293550317 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said "i was offline" after this.
< 1293550320 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh look variable's here now
< 1293550323 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now /that's/ synchronicity
< 1293550329 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i just saw that in the logs)
< 1293550343 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1293550404 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: can you resend last night's pm?
< 1293550405 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't get it
< 1293550840 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: I don't skype... :-) <-- Ilari mistab, meant ineiros
< 1293550855 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, anything happened on cube?
< 1293550865 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: just woke up
< 1293550883 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh. Just got home myself.
< 1293550889 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cubistic matters
< 1293550894 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: bet you were up at like 4 am!
< 1293550898 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CRAZY MAN
< 1293550931 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, eh? I woke up 14:00 today, then I went to shop and made use of the warranty of a product I bought there about a year ago.
< 1293550958 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, also am/pm: can never remember which is which.
< 1293550985 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: am is early. pm is late.
< 1293550992 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293551006 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, any mnemonic for that?
< 1293551007 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :post meridiem : after midday
< 1293551010 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 12:00 am because midnight is early morning :)
< 1293551014 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, see oerjan and then learn latin
< 1293551015 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, latin doesn't help
< 1293551026 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"post" isn't that unusual...
< 1293551029 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I suck at natural languages
< 1293551039 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but how to remember it isn't after midnight instead
< 1293551050 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"diem" means day
< 1293551055 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293551067 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: meridiem - meridian
< 1293551071 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noon = meridian hour
< 1293551081 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :post meridiem, post meridian, post-noon
< 1293551104 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293551119 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a is for ante of course but that's not as common as post i think
< 1293551134 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ever had a chunk load and then unload? :)
< 1293551136 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :antediluvian
< 1293551138 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw new mcmap out, only relevant if you use -c
< 1293551146 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, -c ?
< 1293551148 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use -s
< 1293551164 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-c is noansi.
< 1293551171 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, why not switch to % 6 for months. So we are no in the second june I think.
< 1293551175 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use:
< 1293551176 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/code/mcmap$ _build/mcmap -c -x 2 -s 300x300 a322.org:25566
< 1293551181 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes as much sense as taking hour % 12
< 1293551205 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, as in, no colour codes? I like the colour codes. I use a proper terminal
< 1293551216 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I do too! Except it has a light background and dark text.
< 1293551222 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So colour codes don't work very well.
< 1293551223 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, that is not proper
< 1293551225 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way I define it
< 1293551247 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, but the solution is trivial: use background colour codes to set it to black as well ;)
< 1293551295 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: joke)
< 1293551315 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I find the contrast of lit text on totally-off pixels to be jarring.
< 1293551394 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been doing dark-on-light every now and then too, but I'm on my dark period now.
< 1293551408 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1293552384 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the esolang wiki down?
< 1293552389 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox can't find the server at esoteric.voxelperfect.net.
< 1293552409 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/ works
< 1293552490 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1293552548 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1293552688 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DNS for esoteric.voxelperfect.net doesn't resolve
< 1293552751 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek
< 1293552776 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.voxelperfect.net has the text: "NOTICE: This domain name expired on 12/27/2010 and is pending renewal or deletion"
< 1293552812 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id: 11300  ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 1
< 1293552821 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that explains it.
< 1293552869 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs.org should be good until 24 May 2011
< 1293552881 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that's only a few months...
< 1293552886 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, after the manual backup, did you remember to turn on saves?
< 1293552944 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh dear.
< 1293553057 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are we /sure/ that graue likes us enough to renew it?
< 1293553091 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... querying DNS records for esolangs.org doesn't give AD flag for me...
< 1293553091 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm sending him an email
< 1293553224 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's AD flag?
< 1293553269 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just going by whois record or esolangs.org: Expiration Date:24-May-2011 19:21:16 UTC
< 1293553347 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's hosted by everydns's servers, that's one of the free dns services.
< 1293553384 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AD is a dnssec-specified flag that's set if the server has gotten the zone data in a dnssec-enabled way.
< 1293553391 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: what's AD flag?
< 1293553397 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1293553481 0 :Warrigal!ihope@thay.Stanford.EDU JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293553492 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Warrigal (ihope@thay.Stanford.EDU)
< 1293553501 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: congratulations?
< 1293553515 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's as if I were going to Stanford now.
< 1293553533 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal is at Stanford, tswett is at GVSU.
< 1293553537 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have determined this using science.
< 1293553544 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Precisely.
< 1293553546 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLONES
< 1293553599 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now, since I cannot bear the shame of being at GVSU instead of Stanford, I will die.
< 1293553603 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.1.0
< 1293553621 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, he was terminated with extreme prejudice.
< 1293553632 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tswett
< 1293553641 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: now please give back the body of the Stanford guy you murdered.
< 1293553654 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that Stanford guy is still alive.
< 1293553667 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT INTELLIGENT ENOUGH DOESN'T MEAN YOU SHOULD TAKE IT OUT ON THOSE WHO ARE
< 1293553689 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know where he is, but his name is Mason Chua.  Maybe you can find him.
< 1293553725 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's the guy I locked up in a closet.
< 1293553923 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293553942 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293553958 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh all my visited wiki links turned blue again...
< 1293553967 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders what he saw last

< 1293554027 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: DID YOU REMEMBER TO FEED HIM
< 1293554044 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't feed him; I'm not in California.
< 1293554052 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... yeah, I guess he's going to be dead in a while.
< 1293554068 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how sad.
< 1293554070 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googles Mason Chua

< 1293554115 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, he has an amateur radio license.
< 1293554156 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can see his address.
< 1293554280 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gasp!  He's a real person!
< 1293554283 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What have I done?
< 1293554284 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293554332 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I need to know.
< 1293554339 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How the hell does Google get its website summaries?
< 1293554342 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Torsion Operating System
< 1293554342 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multitasking SASOS with transparent data persistence: users and application programmers need not know or care that system memory is transient and must be ...
< 1293554342 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.torsion.org/ - Cached - Similar
< 1293554346 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That text is *nowhere* on the Torsion site.
< 1293554355 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I haven't seen ... anyone ... refer to Torsion apart from the Loper OS blog, which doesn't say that.
< 1293554361 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Google have people writing these all the time?!
< 1293554389 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :EGASSEMTERCESATONSISIHT | voxelperfect.net has expired, the wiki is still reachable at http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1293554923 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is theoretically possible for them to have submitted a separate metadata text file thing as a sitemap thorough google's web-admin things, but I don't know how likely that is.
< 1293554947 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It doesn't seem to have robots.txt or sitemap.xml files on-site.)
< 1293554952 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I doubt it, since the website is circa 2004.
< 1293554954 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-4-149.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293554956 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also, I see this shit for *loads* of websites.
< 1293554965 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Like, accurate, objective summaries of things that are /nothing/ like the pages themselves.
< 1293554979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps they use that AI for theirs.
< 1293554982 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (Google also makes up its own page titles a lot ... and they're usually better.)
< 1293556225 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "TIL torches can be placed on leaves only if fast graphics are on, though won't disappear if changed back to fancy graphics."
< 1293556239 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, TIL?
< 1293556239 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "Apparently this also applies to mobs? I've heard they don't spawn on trees if fancy graphics are on, but they will if fast graphics are."
< 1293556242 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Today I Learned
< 1293556248 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, also I think that is no longer the case about leaves
< 1293556248 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: TIL Notch is a terrible coder
< 1293556262 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I think in fancy, leaves are treated exactly like glass. In fast, they're treated exactly like grass... and all the connotations that brings."
< 1293556280 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(Disclaimer: this is mostly guesswork) It's more complicated than that: basically, glass and fancy-leaves are treated as air that you can't walk through. (incidentally, this also means that if you drop an item and place a block of glass over it, the item will not 'pop' out, but will be sealed inside the glass)"
< 1293556282 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, no longer the case, I tried it some weeks ago and I could place on fancy leaves
< 1293556283 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: this game ... so badly written
< 1293556408 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: try googling the phrase. it seems to be text from the various sites linking to it.
< 1293556425 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gaah
< 1293556427 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.NET
< 1293556454 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: most probably this: http://www.google.com/Top/Computers/Software/Operating_Systems/Single_Address_Space/
< 1293556473 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1293556496 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember when dmoz made any sense at all :)
< 1293556816 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new language: http://esolangs.org/wiki/TOD
< 1293556823 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, no - it never did :-)
< 1293556846 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fixes up the article :P

< 1293556851 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, working on that now :-)
< 1293556872 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK then
< 1293556873 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll add it to the list when its ready
< 1293556974 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, is it turing complete?
< 1293556987 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: I don't know! :P
< 1293556990 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually - you could fix up the article
< 1293556992 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::}
< 1293557006 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: It's hard to define TCness in this case because ... well ... it's time-dependent.
< 1293557016 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think no because you can't write a program that predictably emulates a universal Turing machine.
< 1293557038 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes you can - as long as you *start* it at the right time
< 1293557055 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it will only work that once and never again :-}
< 1293557076 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: what is the difference between an operation and an instruction?
< 1293557083 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yes you can - as long as you *start* it at the right time
< 1293557084 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instruction is the actual value in memory
< 1293557087 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, there is no instruction to sleep
< 1293557091 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instruction is the actual value in memory; operation is what happens
< 1293557093 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it might be possible ...
< 1293557097 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah "delay"
< 1293557111 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :delay sleeps for one clock cycle
< 1293557119 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293557133 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long is a clock cycle?
< 1293557149 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the processor
< 1293557152 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its like a NOP in assembly
< 1293557194 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Wouldn't "nop" be a clearer name then? :p
< 1293557204 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably
< 1293557215 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was originally thinking of an actual delay - but then decided to change
< 1293557223 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :renaming it would be better now :-)
< 1293557266 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: the pointer points to one byte, yes?
< 1293557277 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1293557307 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: is the tape right-infinite, left-infinite or both?
< 1293557313 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., say ^ is the pointer
< 1293557314 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it
< 1293557316 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^0 0 0 0 0 0...
< 1293557317 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or
< 1293557322 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 0 0 0 0 0 0 ^0
< 1293557323 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or
< 1293557327 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1293557328 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right infinite
< 1293557330 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...0 0 0 0 0 0 0 ^0
< 1293557330 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or
< 1293557335 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...0 0 0 0 0 0 ^0 0 0 0 0 0 0...
< 1293557339 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^0 .....
< 1293557388 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, aha, so this is where you are!
< 1293557407 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Cleaned up the article.
< 1293557436 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, thanks
< 1293557448 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION HATES HATES HATES (both-infinite) wiki syntax

< 1293557469 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: one byte per instruction, right?
< 1293557478 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. a file looks like "010101111000" where those are the ascii bytes for 0 and 1?
< 1293557509 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no - the instructions are bitwise
< 1293557523 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the stack (where the input and output goes) is bytewise
< 1293557540 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 0101 would be "delay" "do" delay" "do"
< 1293557559 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/TOD there we go
< 1293557582 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll add it to the table now
< 1293557600 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :serious language.... or joke language...
< 1293557603 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION can't decide :-)

< 1293557625 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, could I rename it to #Aardvark-tod so it goes first ????
< 1293557627 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1293557638 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ###Aaardvark-tod
< 1293557682 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: no :P
< 1293557687 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: it's not a joke language
< 1293557689 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what table?
< 1293557701 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Language_list
< 1293557741 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a table :-P
< 1293557752 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: but yeah, no, joke languages are those which aren't even "real" languages
< 1293557783 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I know - I was joking
< 1293557789 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right :p
< 1293557799 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people have got legitimately confused about that list before, mind
< 1293557805 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence the ":-)"
< 1293557831 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: how do you do loops or some equivalent? I can't see how to get a non-halting program
< 1293557834 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, notice how many of my lines have :Ps in it
< 1293557842 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: indeed.
< 1293557848 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's definitely sub-TC.
< 1293557853 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, infinite 0s
< 1293557866 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its all initialized to 0
< 1293557867 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: ...and?
< 1293557879 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I didn't make a way to halt....
< 1293557885 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh - I have an idea
< 1293557889 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION adds a halt

< 1293557897 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: no, you need a _non-halt_
< 1293557899 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you loop forever?
< 1293557927 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean?
< 1293557933 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what loop?
< 1293557938 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: umm, ok.
< 1293557944 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: I want to make a program that loops forever, doing nothing.
< 1293557947 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: what program does it?
< 1293557971 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just run it - its right infinite running with all 0s
< 1293557998 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: I don't get it -- the tape isn't the program, is it?
< 1293558004 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1293558017 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry
< 1293558021 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders

< 1293558053 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, would a "go backwards N instructions be fine" ?
< 1293558120 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe... starts to get ugly though
< 1293558133 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: it would allow an infinite loop, but I very much doubt it would be TC
< 1293558135 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about "go back to the start"
< 1293558144 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(considering all your operations are locked behind time, and you can't "wait until 12pm")
< 1293558151 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(only "wait an unspecified amount of time", and you don't even know what time it is now)
< 1293558177 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what could I change to fix this? "wait until 00:00" ?
< 1293558269 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: yes. and if you say nop waits exactly one second, say.
< 1293558276 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: you'll still need a conditional jump, though
< 1293558281 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. jump if and only if this certain condition is true
< 1293558284 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, the current cell is not 0
< 1293558294 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: oh, and what range do the cells have? are they signed or unsigned bytes?
< 1293558298 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about time based conditional jump?
< 1293558306 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jump iff its 4:35
< 1293558318 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are 2s compliment integers
< 1293558340 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it have to be based on the data?
< 1293558375 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: time might work
< 1293558382 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: 2s compliment -- ok so they're signed
< 1293558389 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in brainfuck usually they are unsigned i.e. 0 to 255 inclusive)
< 1293558486 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, jump iff it is is currently the apocalypse ?   and change "delay" to "wait 1ms"?
< 1293558513 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: I'd change delay to "wait an hour", to be honest.
< 1293558517 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise programs will be gigantic.
< 1293558522 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly :-)
< 1293558522 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Except ...
< 1293558526 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: You need to know what time it is.
< 1293558531 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Jump one hour doesn't help; you need to get to 12pm, say.
< 1293558546 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah - it depends on when you start it
< 1293558553 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Then it's not Turing complete. :)
< 1293558573 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if
< 1293558583 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program automatically delays until 00:00 ?
< 1293558597 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the first instruction ?
< 1293558600 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Yes, that would work.
< 1293558603 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Or better.
< 1293558609 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Have the interpreter error out if it's not 00:00.
< 1293558613 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1293558619 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, 00:00:00 to the second.
< 1293558633 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1293558656 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1293558679 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Then if you add two more things to the do instruction -- say "skip the next instruction if the current cell is 0", and "jump to the program location specified in the current cell"... then it still wouldn't work, because you'd only have 256 places you can jump to.
< 1293558701 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok
< 1293558719 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my goal is to avoid adding the brainfuck's [] operators but still have it be TC
< 1293558731 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: yep. good luck with that :P
< 1293558739 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it doable ?
< 1293558793 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: well, there are plenty of TC languages without loops.
< 1293558809 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you definitely need some kind of conditional jump for your structure to work.
< 1293558817 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-91-192.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293558828 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, can it only jump to the start and still be TC?
< 1293558867 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jump to instruction 0 iff its the apocalypse
< 1293558895 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: no. i don't think that will work :)
< 1293558922 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-48-79.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293558938 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to set some kind of label ?
< 1293559011 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: possibly
< 1293559024 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does lambda calculus do it?
< 1293559027 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or other languages?
< 1293559056 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Lambda calculus has first-class functions and no concept of memory or instructions.
< 1293559060 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: So it's ... not easy to relate.
< 1293559063 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293559069 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All lambda calculus is, is:
< 1293559079 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do other functions do it?
< 1293559082 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* languages do it
< 1293559094 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LC := 'λ' name '.' LC | '(' LC LC ')' | (name)
< 1293559095 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g.
< 1293559101 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(λx. x) y
< 1293559102 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==>y
< 1293559104 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for any y
< 1293559117 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :λx y z. is the same as λx.λy.λz.
< 1293559130 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293559133 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(λw. w w) (λw. w w) ==> (λw. w w) (λw. w w) ==> ...
< 1293559138 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(infinite loop)
< 1293559142 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: usually other languages have loops :-P
< 1293559145 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I havn't done any lambda calculus
< 1293559147 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu
< 1293559150 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, really, just conditional jumps
< 1293559161 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: lambda calculus is really really simple. I just described it there, basically
< 1293559167 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't tell you the actual evaluation rules, but it's just function application
< 1293559174 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except you don't evaluate function arguments until you really need to
< 1293559203 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: " therefore haskell REEKS OF THE FOUL STENCH", you seem to have been confused about my opinion, which indicates failure on your part to employ elementary logic, which is surprising for me since you seem to display aptitude in logic.
< 1293559218 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: actually it's called mocking :)
< 1293559220 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I just need "if current cell is zero delay until next 00:00:00"
< 1293559238 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: nah, that won't work -- then the rest of the program means two different things, and I doubt you could make them both do the right thing :)
< 1293559243 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Which in turn just made you look ``like an idiot'' ;)
< 1293559269 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: well, no, you look like the idiot w/ that post, it'd be hard to top.
< 1293559339 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great, now i'm lost in this damn pit
< 1293559355 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not quite concerned how I look. I do think people got their panties into a bundle because I seemed to insult them. A lot of people seem to agree though, but (unfortunately?) those who do don't have the loudest mouths.
< 1293559368 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293559379 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, how about something like iff apocalypse "move the instruction pointer backward in sync with the stack pointer until a 0 is seen on the stack"
< 1293559415 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: wait, since when is there a stack :)
< 1293559428 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, the "data pointer" or where the input/output occurs
< 1293559430 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION calls that a stack

< 1293559434 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though its not\
< 1293559440 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause its not LIFO
< 1293559452 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: hehe... I don't think you can make any of this work without a way to keep the current time predictable ... and having some kind of conditional jump :)
< 1293559453 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tape -- better turn
< 1293559470 0 :Wamanuz5!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1293559470 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, current time is predictable now: delay == 1ms
< 1293559485 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: well, right
< 1293559491 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you're proposing making jumps wait time based on value
< 1293559495 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is _not_ predictable :)
< 1293559541 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone got a secret stash of tnt i can borrow?
< 1293559543 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not?
< 1293559593 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: why not what?
< 1293559602 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is the current time not predictable now?
< 1293559603 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: because what "do" does after a conditional wait is completely unpredictable
< 1293559609 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could do one of two things, and you can't know which at the time
< 1293559624 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to write your whole program so it does the right thing based on the condition no matter which of the two times it is ... and it's just not gonna work
< 1293559696 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, if I forced [ and ] to occur at specific times would that be a problem?
< 1293559704 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie at the hour and at the half hour?
< 1293559728 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: probably not, since you can always wait
< 1293559733 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: oh, you need to specify how long instructions take
< 1293559735 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: I suggest 1 second
< 1293559747 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and if the interp takes more than one second to execute an instruction, it has to quit because the time's been messed up)
< 1293559763 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1293559779 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added a note about timezones btw
< 1293559851 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instructions take 1s - fine. delays are 1s as well
< 1293559903 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I can't see how I could add labels without changing from a bitwise instr. set to something else
< 1293559997 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: you don't really need labels
< 1293560087 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: ok, how about this
< 1293560093 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: add two things to the do instruction
< 1293560094 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: do you know how popular your blog is? did it just get a huge boost from that post?
< 1293560097 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable:
< 1293560102 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- skip next instruction if current cell is 0
< 1293560109 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- jump forwards/backwards according to current cell value
< 1293560113 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. jump 0 is an infinite loop
< 1293560115 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jump -1 goes back one
< 1293560119 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jump 1 goes forwards one
< 1293560120 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(instruction)
< 1293560126 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_then your limited to 256 values
< 1293560132 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: yes, but it doesn't matter because it's relative
< 1293560140 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: then you could basically do
< 1293560142 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I said before :- }
< 1293560151 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait
< 1293560153 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: make it
< 1293560157 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- skip next do instruction if current cell is 0
< 1293560159 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could do
< 1293560180 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait until skip time; do; wait until increment time; do; wait until skip time; do; wait until increment time; do; wait until skip time; do; wait until jump time; do
< 1293560191 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd jump forwards 2 after the last do if the current cell isn't 0
< 1293560262 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1293560346 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: but you'll need to subdivide time further :P
< 1293560361 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1293560371 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I'm keeping time at "clock cycle
< 1293560380 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and leaving it machine dependant
< 1293560405 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293560410 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: (1) because you need two new instructions
< 1293560414 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: (2) then it's not even a language
< 1293560421 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the semantics are /radically/ different depending on the implementation.
< 1293560431 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: if you did it "program counter modulo N"
< 1293560431 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm - fine
< 1293560432 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it'd work
< 1293560437 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it would not be time of day based :)
< 1293560446 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll make it 1 second
< 1293560450 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have my two times
< 1293560458 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do?
< 1293560467 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: wait wait wait.
< 1293560472 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: how on /earth/ do you determine sunset and sunrise.
< 1293560477 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, adding that now
< 1293560481 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't make those real times, it can't possibly work :P
< 1293560492 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I had an idea - I just didn't write it
< 1293560502 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw you probably want to say UTC rather than GMT on there
< 1293560505 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though they're the same
< 1293560576 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293560582 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using RFC 2119 terms - that's ok - right?
< 1293560644 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure :P
< 1293560679 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I changed it to UTC, since GMT isn't actually formally defined anywhere
< 1293560688 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's mean solar time at Greenwich Observatory technically :P)
< 1293560719 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I already made that change
< 1293560724 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh :D
< 1293560732 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: wrong
< 1293560736 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just checked the history
< 1293560761 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I didn't hit "edit" edit
< 1293560762 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* yet
< 1293560768 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was making other changes too
< 1293560786 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah :D
< 1293560891 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, refresh
< 1293560933 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001f5b00390f-CM001e6b2335dc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293560940 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: ok, so time is now nondeterministic because of relying on external data, and the language is sub-TC
< 1293560954 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the undefinedness of the two extra times make it not only sub-TC, but an undefined language too :-)
< 1293561011 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, what do you mean? it will occur in 2012 :)
< 1293561044 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: yep, but you can't wait backwards, and you can't figure out how far away you are from 2012 :-P
< 1293561051 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't ever wait until the apocalypse consistently
< 1293561068 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, also https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Interesting_number_paradox
< 1293561084 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know :)
< 1293561100 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :welp, your language definitely isn't TC, that's all I can say >:)
< 1293561117 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1293561122 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, fine :-}
< 1293561134 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think its better if I made it TC?
< 1293561157 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: well. I can't imagine anyone actually running a program in it, so the distinction is rather academic :-P
< 1293561198 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I just need to write a 99 bottles of beer in it now :-}
< 1293561279 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want it theoretically possible to write a program in it
< 1293561285 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so perhaps I should make it RC
< 1293561286 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* TC
< 1293561326 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: well 99 bottles of beer doesn't even require TCness
< 1293561345 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact C is arguably sub-TC (I think C + POSIX is TC and C + libc is probably TC, but plain C itself is sub-TC).
< 1293561367 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well yeah: if there was some operation that resulted in 99 bottles of beer....
< 1293561375 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is plain C non TC
< 1293561379 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: nope, there are plenty of languages with loops that aren't TC
< 1293561387 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. "loop from 0 to N" for fixed N
< 1293561391 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: plain C is non-TC because of sizeof
< 1293561393 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider,
< 1293561398 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all pointers must be castable to (void *)
< 1293561403 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sizeof(void *) must be an integer
< 1293561406 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore pointers must have finite size
< 1293561410 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and therefore the addressable memory is finite
< 1293561411 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED
< 1293561430 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, sizeof is measured in chars
< 1293561431 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1293561438 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sizeof(void *) = 1 where char is a big-num could work
< 1293561441 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for CHAR_BIT :)
< 1293561451 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, so if I removed the google source and changed those two times it wouldbe TC ?
< 1293561461 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since CHAR_BIT is in the libc you could argue it works ...
< 1293561472 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: I don't know, it's really hard to demonstrate TCness... but I think it would be quite likely, yes :)
< 1293561483 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really hard = write a BF interpreter in it is the easiest way
< 1293561494 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why ?
< 1293561541 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: why what?
< 1293561572 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, "based on a pre-generated table supplied to the interpreter?"
< 1293561575 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the TZ
< 1293561589 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "why is it so hard to demonstrate TCness?"
< 1293561610 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: because you essentially have to demonstrate an isomorphism to another TC language
< 1293561618 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :showing a table with BF instruction --> equivalent TOD code on the right would be sufficient
< 1293561622 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, that that gravel I threw you
< 1293561703 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, refresh
< 1293561758 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, would "based on a pregenerated table" be sufficient for sunrise and senset
< 1293561768 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: yeah, as long as you specify the table in the article
< 1293561782 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah - ok
< 1293561822 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I can't have it "user supplied"
< 1293561823 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: I'd just set it at, e.g., 7pm
< 1293561832 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: no, you can't, because then the TCness of the lang would depend on the table :)
< 1293561834 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also the behaviour of programs
< 1293561850 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want it to vary in the summer and winter
< 1293561890 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and location
< 1293561932 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: then the language is sub-TC
< 1293561940 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a program that works in summer won't work in winter
< 1293561958 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: well, ok, if you specified the timezone and season to execute it'd be TC
< 1293561961 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still :p
< 1293561964 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean
< 1293561970 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd really be tz*season languages
< 1293561976 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all of them would be TC
< 1293561982 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but programs won't only work in one of them
< 1293561983 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine
< 1293561999 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll set it to 7am/7pm
< 1293562057 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, refresh
< 1293562096 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: ok. I think it is TC then.
< 1293562114 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: but i can't be sure :)
< 1293562122 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1293562139 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, now.. to write hello world :-}
< 1293562158 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: good luck with that.
< 1293562173 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: you'll need a lot of nop*3600 :P
< 1293562203 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I should add a note that "programmers without large HDDs should probably write in a compressed format
< 1293562296 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Mind you, 3600 nops is only 450 bytes.
< 1293562406 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1293562533 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, tyvm
< 1293562547 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :np :P
< 1293562702 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-48-79.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293562938 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-57-8.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293562976 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293563578 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-57-8.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293563715 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1293564221 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You store gravel right? Can we borrow some? (To give back.) We're emptying the Cube.
< 1293564460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293564694 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would like to see IPv6 exhaustion counter. The "addresses left" counter would go down at an impressive rate, but the number would have 37 digits...

< 1293564816 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: No, I've been throwing all my gravel into lava.
< 1293564828 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Bah!
< 1293564848 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: For your inconsiderateness, you must help the mind-numbing work of excavation and draining. (Hey, we already have a glass wireframe. :p)
< 1293564896 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even 10^20 addresses allocated per second is not enough to exhaust IPv6 address space before the Sun fries Earth...
< 1293565127 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, that might be low rate. Let's throw a factor of 1000 more. That's still over 10 million years...
< 1293565290 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I DON'T SEE YOU HELPING
< 1293565437 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This month (according to latest data I have) 28 126 260 029 466 696 220 239 013 609 472 IPv6 addresses have been allocated/delegated.
< 1293565614 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, that's good bit more than 10^20 (or even 10^23) per second... Like 120 * 10^23 per second... At current rate, current unicast IPv6 space would be exhausted in about 100 000 years...
< 1293565813 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that pesky Y100K problem
< 1293565847 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.5 trillion IPv6 network prefixes allocated/delegated this motnth...
< 1293565875 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, heh
< 1293565895 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh i humanity hasn't developed a way of efficiently fixing problems long before then, it's doomed anyway
< 1293565898 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*if
< 1293565910 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is something fishy about my f key
< 1293565969 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that isn't even one millionth of current unicast space...
< 1293566027 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can we borrow sand then? :p
< 1293566060 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and seems like for universal IPv6, one would need few quadrillion subnetwork prefixes...
< 1293566210 0 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293566360 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1293566904 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_soup
< 1293566938 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will check when MC isn't running
< 1293569504 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: We hereby ENSLAVE you.
< 1293570574 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, working on a python implementation of TOD
< 1293570586 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: cool
< 1293571005 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I went to -200 10000 by mistake >_<
< 1293571028 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well what happened
< 1293571040 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, also write code to save bookmarks
< 1293571042 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, or such
< 1293571053 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love that story :-)
< 1293571095 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, also wrt link above: "The story is most commonly known as nail soup in Scandinavian and Northern European countries."  <-- oh that
< 1293571356 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293571371 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Open source stone soup: exactly like stone soup, except the travellers had to supply all the ingredients instead, and then someone dropped some mud in it
< 1293571410 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, someone saying something stupid about open source?
< 1293571418 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Nope, that was me saying that.
< 1293571581 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s pretty stupid though.
< 1293571586 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That's why it was a joke.
< 1293571592 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...well, 90% a joke.
< 1293571603 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So's your mom, but you don't see her complaining.
< 1293571611 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember the last time I saw an open source project that got started with a single stone (a README, say) :-P
< 1293571627 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Subtlety is my ex's name." "At least, I think she's my ex now.  She wasn't very clear about it."
< 1293571636 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293571640 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Explosion
< 1293571642 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover! Hello!
< 1293571648 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: CUBE CONSTRUCTION IS START
< 1293571648 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, word seen on wikipedia: "sphericity"
< 1293571650 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I like it)
< 1293571652 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: xD
< 1293571654 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sphericalosity
< 1293571666 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, consistent internet connection, how I have missed you!
< 1293571671 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, the sentence was "Then the part is honed to improve a form characteristic such as roundness, flatness, cylindricity, or sphericity."
< 1293571676 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Set your visor-goggles (fog) to Far, and //goto -200 1000.
< 1293571685 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does want to play Minecraft :/

< 1293571686 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will do!
< 1293571690 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: BEHOLD THE WIREFRAME. GAZE AT THE PARTIALLY-EMPTIED SEA. GAWP AT THE GIGANTIC UNDERGROUND EXCAVATION CAVERNS.
< 1293571691 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, explore the worlds
< 1293571692 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: BTW: You really want far.
< 1293571695 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I awesomised my SSP world.
< 1293571696 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, so buy it?
< 1293571700 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Otherwise you can't see the wireframe.
< 1293571713 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: P.S. I've sort of used some of HHI's duplicated TNT to help excavate... please don't hurt me
< 1293571738 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you're demoted to junior undersecretary of juniority!
< 1293571747 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's great, I can steal more under the radar!
< 1293571757 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ALSO ALSO: /kit g gets you a shitload of glass. And if you don't have enough inventory it goes into your armour slots. And YOU ACTUALLY GET A GLASS ORB ON YOUR HEAD.
< 1293571762 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is HILARIOUS.
< 1293571770 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AWESOME
< 1293571795 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: BTW: Reconnect after //goto.
< 1293571798 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You become invisible if you don't.
< 1293571807 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1293571822 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Because you do.
< 1293571917 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/heart_stopping_medics_limit_cpr_7Ahv46Qfw6NXpYklWpMhiO
< 1293572174 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah... Fail: Official Food pyramid: 60% carbohydrate, 25% fat, 15% protein.  Cattle rancher animal feed formula for fattening animals: 61% carbohydrate, 25% fat, 14% protein.
< 1293572203 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah
< 1293572258 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, 60% carbs, 25% fat and 15% of protein diet can be reasonable if one picks carb and fat sources well (definitely not the way food pyramid recomends).
< 1293572289 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, pretty lulzy
< 1293572296 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a difference though
< 1293572313 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that the ranchers are not in the business of mining fat deposits
< 1293572318 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they want fatty meat
< 1293572321 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the mean must still be ther
< 1293572325 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*meat
< 1293572326 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*there
< 1293572427 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, there was some primitive (i.e. healthy) population with diet approximately 70% carbs, 20% fat (15% saturated!) and 10% protein...
< 1293572637 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: so basically the food pyramid is perfect for cannibals?
< 1293572670 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If one wanted to look who food pyramid is good for, it is pharma companies...
< 1293572771 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is goddamn good for the goddamn pharma companies :(
< 1293572787 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This leads to a problem. When there are an infinite number of instances of every possible observation, it becomes impossible to determine the probabilities of any of these events occurring. And when that happens, the laws of physics simply don't apply. They just break down. "This is known as the "measure problem" of eternal inflation," say Bousso and buddies"
< 1293572804 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that it's the journalist screwing that up, because what I just read makes no sense
< 1293572808 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/25807/
< 1293572932 0 :zeotrope!~a@unaffiliated/zeotrope JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293573574 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort it randomly and compute the limits as number of observations increases?
< 1293573601 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No, I think they're serious
< 1293573636 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, is there some sort of math going on that makes more sense than what was in that article?
< 1293573644 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I'm caught up on
< 1293573670 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or are people just being dumbfarks? I don't want to just make that assumption
< 1293573672 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: did it occur to you to read the paper?
< 1293573725 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No :/
< 1293573730 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to look at it

< 1293573805 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first two paragraphs say pretty much the same thing
< 1293573813 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sees something that may be useful in the next

< 1293573898 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not just make the calculations for a given amount of space in a given amount of time?
< 1293573929 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, is that what they're saying?
< 1293573978 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Some
< 1293573978 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :observers will have their lives interrupted by the cuto"
< 1293573983 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is that interesting?
< 1293574073 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This cutoff they are talking about. I thought it was a mathematical tool so they don't have to look at everything. Why are they talking about it as though it has a physical reality
< 1293574075 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it
< 1293574144 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither
< 1293574158 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the argument "math doesn't work so it won't happen" is one worth considering
< 1293574384 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, if you carry any sand: use it now
< 1293574401 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders switching back to Opera

< 1293574432 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :play more netcraft imo
< 1293574436 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has vertex shaders
< 1293574626 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293574921 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CRAZY PHYSICS IDEA #2: Hawking generator.
< 1293574951 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make black hole. Stabilise mass loss due to Hawking radiation by pouring junk into it. ??? Profit!
< 1293575000 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any fatal flaws I've missed?
< 1293575045 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much energy does it take to put junk into it?
< 1293575065 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, "negative".
< 1293575115 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could get even more energy from the gravitational potential were it not for the fact that once you have a method for total mass-to-energy conversion, which I think this is, your energy needs are basically solved.
< 1293575116 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: does netcraft actually have a release at all
< 1293575126 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: no
< 1293575138 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just trolling
< 1293575140 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: a public source repository? :p
< 1293575144 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link?
< 1293575147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's semipublic
< 1293575178 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umm... isn't Hawking radiation basically matter?
< 1293575183 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1293575212 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what types of particles are "formed"?
< 1293575218 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly photons
< 1293575225 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which usually aren't considered matter
< 1293575232 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, I thought it was matter and antimatter in equal proportion?
< 1293575241 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So photons if you wait a while.
< 1293575249 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :photons are their own antiparticles
< 1293575265 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ergo, photons meeting photons = explosion
< 1293575269 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ergo, shining two lasers at the earth = BOOM
< 1293575271 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everywhere in the quantum foam of spacetime, particle-antiparticle pairs spontaneously appear then anhillate eache other.
< 1293575296 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: no silly it's all made out of tiny vibrating strings!
< 1293575299 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When this happens right at the edge of a black hole, it's possible that one of the partcles gets sucked in, so that the other has nothing to anhillate against
< 1293575308 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, yes, that's my understanding.
< 1293575323 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes, your idea is crazy but Just Might Work
< 1293575332 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two problems thought
< 1293575340 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I know, mass.
< 1293575341 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#1 is capturing the radiation
< 1293575347 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#2 is feeding the mass at the right rate
< 1293575383 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I thought this was a consequence of string theory
< 1293575384 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION suddenly wants portable black holes for use in spaceships

< 1293575392 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, naaaa.
< 1293575401 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I don't know how this quantum foam arises though
< 1293575402 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i was joking :)
< 1293575406 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't even move black holes without massive gravitational forces.
< 1293575417 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But configurations of holes in orbit, now...
< 1293575471 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much Hawking radiation do black holes emit? Enough to be usable?
< 1293575489 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did I never see git's description before?
< 1293575499 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I think it has been experimentally detected in a lab recently
< 1293575507 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, the formula is on the WP article.
< 1293575531 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, for a black hole with mass M:
< 1293575546 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes, some guy in the ashes tried to catch the ball but it just slapped his thumb
< 1293575556 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"catch"?
< 1293575575 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason, I thought in cricket, the ball was usually on the ground
< 1293575578 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P = \frac{\hbar c^6}{15360\pi G^2 M^2}
< 1293575597 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hbar?
< 1293575608 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :h/2\pi IIRC
< 1293575610 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well someone throws it, then the batsman hits it, after going through the air it rolls for a while
< 1293575632 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, aaaaaaaorganisedsportgetitaway
< 1293575633 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if someone gets killed by the ball? It happens in baseball :(
< 1293575654 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wow. I didn't know thatt
< 1293575662 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : why did I never see git's description before?
< 1293575663 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1293575667 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesterday the batsman got hit in the knee but he did keep playng
< 1293575671 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, let's calculate the mass necessary for you to get a 1 on the Kardashev scale!
< 1293575679 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.northjersey.com/sports/hs_sports/120510_Garfield_deals_with_grief_as_probe_continues_in_teen_baseball_players_death.html
< 1293575683 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: are the ashes worth watching
< 1293575686 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: poor cat
< 1293575690 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all he wants is some lasanga
< 1293575698 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lasagna
< 1293575699 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wt
< 1293575700 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f
< 1293575704 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a word, spellchecker.
< 1293575731 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the Mathematica thing to rearrange an equation so a given variable is dependent?
< 1293575736 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well that's what I am trying to find out
< 1293575749 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: you haven't figured it out yet? :D
< 1293575752 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what?
< 1293575765 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, !
< 1293575772 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sod it, the equation is trivial to rearrange.
< 1293575775 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what
< 1293575799 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you pick that up, not me
< 1293575908 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It annoys me that h is an angular momentum, yet they have no immediately obvious relation.
< 1293575975 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: random names in mathematics? shocking
< 1293575994 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, no, it's the dimensions.
< 1293576020 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293576032 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :h : m^2*kg*s^-2
< 1293576048 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Angular momentum is the same.
< 1293576070 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: torques are energy!
< 1293576087 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, it's so crazy!
< 1293576102 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lesson: just because the units work out doesn't mean you're right
< 1293576220 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, but it's so inelegant!
< 1293576410 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I definitely don't "get" it.. yet(?)
< 1293576410 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANYWAY, who wants to know the mass of the Hawking generator needed to produce a watt of power!
< 1293576438 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I think you need to, like, blend fifty rule books into a smoothie and drink it every day for five weeks
< 1293576481 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It turns out to be 5*10^-17kg!
< 1293576488 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1293576493 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This may be a problem...
< 1293576504 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1293576543 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the slightest disturbance in the mass you're feeding in and you end up with no black hole and a gamma ray explosion.
< 1293576572 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1293576578 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HMM.
< 1293576602 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the good news is that Sgeo's dream of having one on his spaceship is fulfillable!
< 1293576602 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get how this blog post has led to so much discussion
< 1293576618 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess haskell folks juts hate the idea of being a cargo cult so much
< 1293576634 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl
< 1293576672 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How it scales with power? What would be the mass for 1kW?
< 1293576685 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, the larger the power the smaller the hole.
< 1293576748 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I've messed this up.
< 1293576786 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no actually that's right
< 1293576795 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hawking radiation is quicker in smaller black holes
< 1293576824 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand that
< 1293576827 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that work?
< 1293576837 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, yeah, and my formula doesn't get that.
< 1293576865 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293576867 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, gradient of space around hole something something something physics.
< 1293576875 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh curvature I see
< 1293576909 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oho, that's why the formula is wrong!
< 1293576949 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, NOW it works.
< 1293576974 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like how surface gravity of a black hole is really weak
< 1293576984 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so now I have 2e16 for the mass of a 1-Watt Hawking generator.
< 1293577000 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUCH more practical.
< 1293577004 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very.
< 1293577006 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kg?
< 1293577010 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes.
< 1293577025 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: how much for 1 megawatt >:)
< 1293577027 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it scale linearly
< 1293577042 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it scales 1/square rootly.
< 1293577061 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 2e13?
< 1293577063 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a huge amount of power is actually far less mass.
< 1293577073 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yep!
< 1293577089 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course you would need to put more mass in to keep it going
< 1293577099 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, this is where the real practical problems come in.
< 1293577124 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to compensate the mass loss, which doesn't take much mass, but is tricky for very small holes.
< 1293577159 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so how much energy for 1 kg
< 1293577160 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Type 1 on the Kardashev scale is 1e16, so...
< 1293577171 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1kg of mass suppiles about 90PJ...
< 1293577176 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it's quite simple, it's just e=mc^2.
< 1293577177 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293577180 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oh ofc
< 1293577182 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And P=E/t
< 1293577188 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but you see, you're forgetting
< 1293577190 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'M LAZY
< 1293577216 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10^8 would get you to Type 1 on the Kardashev scale.
< 1293577237 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this is where the real problems come in.
< 1293577241 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except you wouldn't actually be able to get that to work
< 1293577244 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is important to note that as Sagan's Kardashev rating is base-10 logarithmic, a value of 0.72 means we are using approximately 0.16% of the total available planetary energy budget."
< 1293577256 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1e16 would be ridiculously hard to control.
< 1293577284 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And one would need to inject about 110 grams of matter per second to keep it stable...
< 1293577299 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And getting mass into the hole at all would be nigh-impossible.
< 1293577322 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, not too hard if you ignore the energy output
< 1293577338 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, you could get that with a shovel.
< 1293577345 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenTyrian FTW
< 1293577372 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I am now imagining a guy shovelling coal into a hole.
< 1293577380 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a sleek, shiny, lens-fare spaceship.
< 1293577381 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1293577392 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coal's far too valuable
< 1293577394 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was my intention.
< 1293577402 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about Christians instead?
< 1293577410 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although what kind of spaceship is Type 1?
< 1293577421 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: lmao
< 1293577432 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i'll have to remember that for asiekierka
< 1293577462 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, you can use absolutely anything.
< 1293577488 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the good news is that with that level of energe, you could afford the particle accelerator required to make it work
< 1293577502 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, hmm.
< 1293577506 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Could you even use EXCESS ENERGY
< 1293577520 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus giving a perpetual motion machine if you don't use it all! SCIENCE
< 1293577544 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: no, you would need matter as fuel
< 1293577552 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: SHUT UP
< 1293577553 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCIENCE
< 1293577572 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so you have 1e16W of radiation coming out, so how do you get stuff to it without it being vapourised?
< 1293577676 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, our current energy consumption is 16TW.
< 1293577719 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which requires a 1e11 hole.
< 1293577720 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: neutron stream?
< 1293577740 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Speaking of mathematics, me and Vorpal just simultaneously thought that 10x10x10 = 1000.
< 1293577742 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1293577743 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Speaking of mathematics, me and Vorpal just simultaneously thought that 10x10x10 = 100.
< 1293577750 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, well, I was kind of hoping you could just stick some rock in a mass driver.
< 1293577767 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : OK, so you have 1e16W of radiation coming out, so how do you get stuff to it without it being vapourised?
< 1293577772 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And hope that enough of it got in to keep the generator stable.
< 1293577772 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: just make a tube out of indestructium
< 1293577773 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well, neutrons shouldn't interact with the outgoing radiation at al
< 1293577774 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :straight into the hole
< 1293577776 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and route it outside
< 1293577781 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, momentum?
< 1293577800 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hmm?
< 1293577801 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not very significant if the neutrons are moving at all quickly.
< 1293577812 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :momenum of what?
< 1293577821 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The photons? Doesn't matter
< 1293577829 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, net momentum 0
< 1293577851 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean them colliding with the neutrons?
< 1293577856 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1293577868 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's M_E again?
< 1293577893 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6e24kg.
< 1293577936 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1293577962 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so you could fix our entire energy problem with less than a hundred trillionth of the Earth's mass.
< 1293578003 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but won't the photons not collide?
< 1293578031 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, I don't know, I assumed you were Mr Knows Physics.
< 1293578036 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oh, no
< 1293578049 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is Mr Knows Physics here, then?
< 1293578054 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually wait, that won't work
< 1293578057 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neutrans have quarks
< 1293578075 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, I think they wouldn't work because of that
< 1293578090 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was wondering, how much time and how many jet engines working at full power would take to change earth's orbit
< 1293578125 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many depends on how far and how much time, how far depends on how many and how much time, etc
< 1293578150 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, ask Sam Hughes, he's an expert on this kind of thing.
< 1293578190 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There really ought to be a name for kg/s.
< 1293578272 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Kuggs.
< 1293578385 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried to calculate that
< 1293578408 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was too riddiculous
< 1293578480 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no
< 1293578481 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1293578496 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was about changing the rotation direction
< 1293578809 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, trivial.
< 1293578829 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I can't be bothered to work it out, but I know that I could.
< 1293578951 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Work out the change in angular momentum.
< 1293578995 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know
< 1293578998 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i did that
< 1293579038 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it turned out that one should basically fill the entire Earth's surface with jet engines
< 1293579041 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1293579092 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://vimgolf.com/
< 1293579095 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa
< 1293579240 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1293579266 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice!
< 1293579391 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.xamuel.com/images/madfrege.JPG
< 1293579463 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1293579466 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://vimgolf.com/challenges/4d1a71c0b8cb34093200010b
< 1293579476 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure I can totally beat 189
< 1293579500 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although does this run vimrcs? if so you could easily cheat)
< 1293579785 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if there are MMORPGs whose servers are written in Erlang

< 1293579887 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how many baked beans he can stick up his nose

< 1293580006 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm
< 1293580012 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim is being weird
< 1293580012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm, baked beans
< 1293580089 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't I update marks within an @ command
< 1293580145 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait
< 1293580149 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't do 'a in a @
< 1293580301 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i knew two guys who wrote basic MMOG in Erlang
< 1293580322 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they had a presentation on a gamedev conference in Siedlce
< 1293580354 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I last looked at Erlang, what did I dislike about it?
< 1293580398 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/L3ILW.png troll
< 1293580410 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Marcin Gazda, Michał Ślaski - Rozproszony serwer œwiata wirtualnego jako narzędzie do analizy potrzeb serwerów MMOG."
< 1293580455 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :distributed server of virtual world as a tool for analysing demands of MMOG servers
< 1293580469 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was in 2005
< 1293580493 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and these two guys were Erlang freaks
< 1293580594 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do most MMOs do?
< 1293580693 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i think the cheating part is that a and b will also be polynomials, not numbers
< 1293580792 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb, sleep
< 1293580887 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks out digg

< 1293580897 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wtfs at how few comments there are on everything

< 1293581141 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What killed it? I've never had a straight answer to tha.
< 1293581144 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that
< 1293581160 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes you have, you just wanted infinite details.
< 1293581211 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it was along the lines of "they changed the UI and had a few outages and everyone left".
< 1293581388 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose you had a box which prints out an infinite stream of bits
< 1293581416 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bits are not a computable function, they can be any sequence you can define.. is it possible to make an infinite energy generator with it?
< 1293581446 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, XD
< 1293581448 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you have to put electricity in to get the bits out)
< 1293581451 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: coming back?
< 1293581452 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1293581459 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to covre the costs of the LED or whatever
< 1293581473 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I doubt it
< 1293581479 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it's not that I'm bored or anything, just that it sucks down time.
< 1293581483 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: how do you refine raw entropy :-P
< 1293581486 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this thing has infinite amount of information in it
< 1293581514 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yep, but that's not very useful
< 1293581524 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: well anyway
< 1293581530 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: do they /have/ to be uncomputable?
< 1293581540 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean you can specify the bits to be anything
< 1293581546 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: well
< 1293581551 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not "instructions for building an infinite energy machine" but...
< 1293581554 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: you could use the LED's light
< 1293581556 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when the bit is 1
< 1293581561 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to power some light-based electricity generator
< 1293581563 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even its heat
< 1293581567 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its very, very minimal heat
< 1293581572 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: except no
< 1293581573 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, except such a thing exists.
< 1293581574 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you have to cover the costs of the LED
< 1293581576 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you have to cover the LED generator
< 1293581579 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: ok then no
< 1293581588 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vaguely wonders why he installed Braid from Steam

< 1293581594 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quantum much?
< 1293581596 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I define the sequence to be 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, ...
< 1293581604 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: zomg! the AIR is that machine!
< 1293581610 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obvs the air gives us infinite energy :}
< 1293581630 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, read The Minecraft Experiment lately?
< 1293581634 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He reached the Nether.
< 1293581635 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: a few days ago
< 1293581639 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :air??
< 1293581701 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yep, just don't plug the led into anything
< 1293581703 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite 0 bits
< 1293581730 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't disprove that this might be possible
< 1293581755 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, see mc
< 1293581758 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, so how are you getting energy here?
< 1293581806 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose the machine was a halting oracel for the nth brainfuck program
< 1293581831 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might be able to prove some difficult mathematical theorems just by waiting a long enough time
< 1293581880 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if this was the 1800s I could have one that prints out instructions for a flying machine
< 1293581897 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a bad example actually
< 1293581917 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since we only know post facto that the sequence exists
< 1293581921 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't be silly, machines can't fly
< 1293582040 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S TRUE
< 1293582047 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: but um, i don't think you can use it to generate infinite energy
< 1293582054 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: well
< 1293582057 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: how does it generate the bits?
< 1293582060 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: does it come with the LED built in?
< 1293582060 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just feel like if an alien asked me what what infinite sequecne of bits I would like.. I wouldn't be prepared
< 1293582067 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: as in
< 1293582080 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: is it an impenetrable black box that lights up occasionally iff you give >= N watts of energy?
< 1293582081 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't open the device up
< 1293582084 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :into a little hole in the back
< 1293582086 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes exactly
< 1293582087 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i.e. the LED is built in, yes?
< 1293582087 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1293582108 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I'd say ... definitely no, because we can't access the information in any physical form
< 1293582116 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: only the LED, which we're covering
< 1293582131 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i.e. the actual /physical/ results of generating the information are not accessible
< 1293582131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1293582135 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what is relevant here
< 1293582144 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? what's the diffence, same 1s and 0s
< 1293582156 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what's the actual principle for the infinite energy?
< 1293582168 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: well because the point is that heat etc.
< 1293582172 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno :D
< 1293582218 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grumblegrumblemyideawasbetter
< 1293582284 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ?
< 1293582292 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For energy!
< 1293582296 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: can I cheat?
< 1293582308 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a man. Shovelling coal. Into a black hole.
< 1293582311 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT
< 1293582321 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can cheat if it's clever
< 1293582327 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I request the sequence of bits that represent ASCII instructions in easily-comprehended-by-a-modern-physicist English that describes all steps necessary to build an infinite energy generator given our current materials and understanding
< 1293582339 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: presumably, the black box itself uses some kind of infinite energy source to do it
< 1293582348 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if it was constructed specially by aliens, they can tell us how to make us one that gives electricity!
< 1293582355 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or heat or whatever
< 1293582358 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: that only works if such a machine exists -- current evidence suggests it doesn't
< 1293582379 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: current evidence suggests this infinitely-outputting box doesn't exist either!
< 1293582399 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: & if they can't give such a sequence, they're frauds, as their magic box must use an infinite energy generator
< 1293582407 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or physics is really, *really* weird)
< 1293582477 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: this is totally cheating though :)
< 1293582625 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1293582631 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's the best approach so far
< 1293582943 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc, the last time I got angry with Opera was because it failed to save my settings properly
< 1293582958 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But i remember that as a last straw. What else was wrong with it?
< 1293582968 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should have a private blog so I rememer things like this
< 1293582982 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no minecart tunnel yet.
< 1293582985 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until it's all done
< 1293582989 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Or just use a text file.
< 1293583032 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.31:16:42:28  It occurs to me that I have a record of my Opera usage
< 1293583032 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.31:16:42:42  So if I'm ever tempted to try Opera again, say in a few years...
< 1293583079 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty
< 1293583094 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, idea to confuse people: add "no pun intended" where there is no pun. It is correct but confusing
< 1293583104 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF.
< 1293583106 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spawn reverted too.
< 1293583113 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, what
< 1293583118 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, that's weird
< 1293583125 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah to pre-second-explosion
< 1293583130 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, are you behind this?
< 1293583135 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros said he'd help now where is he >:|
< 1293583146 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, I hope my home doesn't revert again
< 1293583158 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I dumped more pumpkins and fixed the lava there
< 1293583175 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.29:19:06:37  What an awesome security feature, Opera
< 1293583175 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.29:19:06:42 * Sgeo gives Opera the middle finger
< 1293583177 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.25:22:05:18  Opera complains about an illegal port number
< 1293583180 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.25:22:03:32 * Sgeo angers at Opera
< 1293583188 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.25:12:51:34  elliott: http://codu.org/tmp/websplat-does-not-work-on-opera.png
< 1293583193 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.24:14:24:52  Opera seems to be having some problems again
< 1293583195 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.23:18:55:30  Dear Opera, quit feasdf
< 1293583198 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.22:18:00:05  Why does Opera force me to click the flash before interacting?
< 1293583202 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.22:11:33:12  Dear websites/Opera: Stop making it so that Opera keeps thinking that something changed in your tab
< 1293583202 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.22:15:44:34  Opera fails to mark files as originating from the Internet
< 1293583211 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 10.10.22:18:00:05  Why does Opera force me to click the flash before interacting? <-- good idea
< 1293583218 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 10.10.22:15:44:34  Opera fails to mark files as originating from the Internet <--- ???
< 1293583226 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: good idea that IE invented :)
< 1293583243 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 10.10.25:12:51:34  elliott: http://codu.org/tmp/websplat-does-not-work-on-opera.png <-- this... is this hard mode?
< 1293583245 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or
< 1293583248 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impossible mode?
< 1293583270 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, 544 images?
< 1293583275 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Opera 11 fixed all that 
< 1293583302 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, why not use another browser, such as firefox. Firefox may be bad, but it works
< 1293583341 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because Sgeo hates chrome now for no clear reason
< 1293583350 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and WON'T SHUT UP ABOUT IT BECAUSE HE NEVER SHUTS UP ABOUT ANYTHING NO MATTER HOW LITTLE ANYONE CARES
< 1293583370 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It was creating its enemy images, then counting them, then creating more and recounting them, then creating more etc etc.
< 1293583404 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Played websplat lately? :P
< 1293583414 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, awesome
< 1293583423 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, issues with it?
< 1293583424 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I was just thinking about it; implementing zalgo went all fail :P
< 1293583430 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: wat
< 1293583431 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, zalgo?
< 1293583444 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what zalgo is
< 1293583446 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the sentence does not parse
< 1293583466 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Zalgo is to invoke the hive-mind representing chaos.
< 1293583492 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, if zalgo is a generic noun then it makes sense
< 1293583516 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, so how did you try to implement that?
< 1293583531 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ṫ͈̭̖ͅo̤̊̿͋̂́ͅ ̨̳̭͚̹̘̬̮̙ͥ̅̈́̿̍͌̌i̛̐̽̿ͪ҉̢̭͔̼̘̮ͅṅ̢͖̭̤͕̮̹̪ͧ̐̿ͦ͞v̷̬̙̻̳̤͔͙̓ͨͣ́̎o̦͔͐̇̂͋͊͂ͨͫ̚k̫̈͞ͅeͯͮ̌̂̓͑ͬ҉̳͍̖̠̰̖̭͎ ̮̝̪̲̦͈͎̗̿͐̄̌ͨͤ̉ͬͩ́t͈͐ͭ̑h̙͎̙̲͉̬͎͖̟́͗̓̓e̖̘͖̳̫̟̔ͬ̿ͬ͠ ̸̻̳͖̋͗̄̿̂̚ḩ̜̀̾̓͜i̼̘͗́̽ͭͩv̜̆̂̾̋́͋ͥ̾é̷̺͎ͬ̀̑ͭ̿̈̂͢͝-͚͍̙͉ͫ̆͛̆ͮ͗͘͝͡m̯̠̩̠͍̭͓̝ͭͫ̔̆iͧ̏
< 1293583531 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̸̴̞͔̝͍̭̂̑ͦ̑ͫ͜n̷͖̥̺ͮ̋̎̈́d̷͓̟̩̄ͨ ̽̔̕͜͏̰̤̼̠̤͖̠r̴̹̔̂͐͌ͦͣȅ̷̛̳̞̩̘ͫͤ͐̋ͨ͛p͎͚̃̒̄͌̈̕r̶̻̮͉͓̩̳̲̖ͤ̀ͨͧͪ̒̈́̈͡e͌̓̅ͥ͏̼̘̩͈͟s̸͎̮̭̘̥̫̒͂̉͗̎̕e̵̵̛̘̺͑ͬn̯̠̖͋͂̎̽͘ẗ̰͖͔̠͚̲̫́ͫ͐ͩ̔̈̂ͤͩ͟ͅi̗͇̦͈̙̮͆ͥń̨̛̰̘̘̮͓̙̫ͭ̍ͫ͛̀g̸̪̗̩͕̙̜̩͊ͮ͌̇͠ ͧ͂ͫ̆̔ͧ̽͏̮̭̫̣͚͇c̴̛̝̪͙̼̦̪͛͋ͬh̵̦͍̼̞͚͖͚ͧ̑̀ȃ̓͌̔
< 1293583531 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̵͍̥̣̩͉͉̤̫̔̓̀͠o̙̼̅́ͫͩͩ̇́s̪̟͚̲̋͋̿̄͆̉̏ͬ̓́ͅ.̲͙͈̖̏̂ͦ́
< 1293583533 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̴͎̝̩̮̤̲͈ͣ͛ͅĮ͉̖̱̭ͫ̎̈̒̒̿ͪ́n̞̰͔̱͖̯̜ͩ̇ͯͯ̈̚͘͠v̜̭̏ͩ̍̔͛ͣ͂͂͢͢ǒ̷ͭ̄̀̊ͧ̒̽҉̠̻̤̹k̡̰͓̰̱͂ͭ͋̔́ͅi̯̤̒͊͌ͥͦͬ͐n̤̤͐̿̏̌̇̆̈́͆́g̨̙̱̗̤̙̾̏̍̈ͧ͡ ̵̵̟̲̙̭͙ͩ̄̽̇t̺̫̔ͭ͟͞h̡̭̗̻̠̫̥̩͍ͮͧ̓̈̎̊̊ͮ̀͜e̴̝͙͉̘̙̍́̂̐ͥ̃ ̨͉͇̭̯̝̖̰̰͂̑ͫ͊͗͘ͅf͓̓͗̓ͧ̐ẹ̠͔̔ͬ͒ͧ͋ͤ̉͋e̹̫̥͊ͦͫ̍̌͝l̢͙̺̙̺̩ͥͭ̇̐ͫͧͧ͂͢ȋ̈͋̉͛
< 1293583538 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̧̟͉̩̘̼̙́̄ͧ̚͢ǹ̢͓̞̮̗͖̝̮͍ͭ͜g̙̻͖̠̎̚͜͟ ̢͎̪̲̬ͯ̊ͬͪ͒ͨ̑͜͡ͅo̗̙͋̊̂͌̄̋͌͝f̠͎͕̯͗̒ͯͯͪ͊̊ ̨̼̩̪̯̜̲̖͖͑ͤc̸̻̪̖̱ͭ͐ͨͫ̋h̴͈̹̦̼͙͇̼͖̣̄͗͡͡a̤̱̬͉̼͇̲̜ͮ́̏͋͊ơ͙̝̮̜̈́̐ͪ̿͗̔ͮs̖͎̟͊ͧ̇̈ͅ.̘ͬͧ̐ͣ́͠
< 1293583542 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̨̞̬̳̖̘͎ͮ̈̍ͫͬ̏̚Ẃ̛̻̗̒̓̉̉ͣȉ̺̬͎͖̭͔̝͆ͤͤ͑͝t̨͈̯̬̠̍̍̊̐h̛̯̬̬͗̃͗ͭ͐ ̨͇̹̬͓̗ͪ͑͛͗ͩ͑̒̚͠ǫ̶̶̫̱̼̮̦̪̟̔͐̇u̱͓̹̞̦̾t̸̮̘̭͌͗̐͛͛ͨ͂́͂ͅ ̊ͭ҉̸͕̟͖͉̙̣̩̲̹ǫ̸̬͕͖̰̍̑ͦ̾͐̐ͫ͒͘r̴͎ͬ̒ͧ̇ͪ͊̂̅͜d̯̙̙͍̦̼̣̭ͨ͊̀͟e̶͔̟̦͍͌ͤͧ̿̐̋̀ͮ͞ṛ̳͓̈ͦ͊ͨ̽ͩ̕.̨̲͖̳͔͉͇̯́̉ͨ̋͡
< 1293583547 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̃̍͏͏͓̙̖̱T̢̩̘̭̞̟͍̣̦̦́͊ͬh̨͓͈̻̗͙̱̘͛ͮͮ̑̍ͣẹ͙̰͉̲̘̹ͦͫ͂ͥ͞ ̶̨̬͉ͮ̑͐̃̀̂̈́̕N̫̲ͦ̒ͧ̊ͤ̈̉̕͜ͅe̷̲̊̾̐͐̅̕z̜͔̮̯̬̺̣̉̓͌̒͑͝pͨ̽͏͇̥̥̱͟e̸̖̤͊͗ͮ͝r̦̣͇̦̱̹ͨ͋͜d̞̺̘̪͕̯͎̹ͨ̓̄ͫͯͥ͊̂͡ͅi̢̖̍̊ͤͮ͑̈a̶̹ͫ̈̿́n̪̺̯̣̝ͮͬ̋ͨ ̡̰̍̉ͤ̊ͩ͡ẖ̴͚̼̯̖̈́ͤ̔͋ͬ̐̈͑́͠i͙͔̤̮̳̗̤̥ͯ̐̒̾̍ͯ̓̍̚v̛͉͎̫͆ę̤̳̮͈̟̪̰̰̿̆ͬ-̈́̈
< 1293583552 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̝̠̞͢m̶̷̯͎͑̚i̴̅͏̡̜̙̘̘n͗̌͗̅̅͛ͯ͋̃҉̸̡͉̜̼d̹͈̗̀ͦ̿ͣ͆̒ͣͨ͜͝ ̡̡̪̙̹̲͚͔̗͈̈̓́ŏ̶̥̣̬̘̯̟̼̺͉̅͗f̡̟͎̪̹ͬ̐͒͠ ̛̦͈̹̫͚͖̜ͯ̇͂͜c̴̥̬͚̣̹ͩ͌̔̅̚̕h̎̆͑͑̈͡͏͉̺̠̻̳͓̱͎a͂̄̊͋͐̍͊͗̕͡҉͍̪̣̹͚͚͇o̷̶͖͙͇̣͇̥͖̎͌͑͛͋̽ͦͤś̟̪ͦ͝.̯͎͈̞͗̄͆͗̾̏̈͑ͅ ̢̜̟̣ͯͯ̃͂̌ͩ͋Z̬̘͎͛̍ͣ͛ͣa̟͈̙͕͗ͦͨͪ͑̆l̛̘̤̤̼͍̏̑̉̀ğ́ͬ̅̆ͧ
< 1293583557 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̪̫̖̌̊̀o̷̻̤̰̼͉̞͖͖ͩ̂͊ͩ̽̓ͭ̚̚.̧̹̪̉́͆̽͌̈́̒̂ ̷̵̭̲̳̲̝̱̞ͩͫ͗͊ͪ͂
< 1293583559 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̢̭̤̓̐ͯH̵̲̮̬̹̣͓̮ͩ̉ͦ͌̍ͦ̑̌̀̚̕e̼̼͓̞͌̿ͣ̀ͩ ̧͔̭̭̙̩̥͑̍̔̃͗ͮ̉ͪ͟w̶̓ͮ҉̳͕͇̲͔͓h̥̱͖̘͔͕̔̄̊̉̆͊ͤo͊͗҉̫̹̲̰͉̀ ̶̼̼͕̙̙̫̝͚̩͐͒̓ͤ́͒̂́Ŵ̤̄̎ͫ̐̆̑͞a̳̣̞̣̟͚̯͙̪ͣ͐͠i̡̿̈̽̍͗̐́ͭ͏̞́ť̡̗͕̼̰͙ͣ̽̈́ͧ́̑ś̩͖͔͉̘̥̋͂̏̑͐ͯ̆͜ ̵͂̋ͮͣ̊͡͏̘͇͔͕̞B̢͚̼̞̔̉̒̓ͧͯ͌ͯ͘̕e̊̓̓ͬ͂ͦ͒̈҉̶͉̣̠̳̦̖̘ḣ͉̭̖ͣ̈ͪͅi͗̋ͩ̚͏͞
< 1293583562 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great. It *didn't* mess up my terminal
< 1293583564 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :͔́ņ̹̱͍ͥ̇d̜̻̹̹̿̈́̉̽͂ͩ̃ ̵͓͍͎͓̳̝ͬ̅͂̄́T̴̢͉͔̝̫͎̺̪̺ͧ̈́̋̄̎ͪͅḩ͖̝͕̰̳ͭ̾͐͞ͅe̯͙ͨ̋ͥ̎̆ͩ ̸̡̘̦̂̆̀̔̇́̕Ẁ̮͉͈̿ͤá̸̡̘͚̏͛ͥ̓͐̾̌ͪ͝ͅl̛͇̼̼ͯ̈͡ͅḻ̤̰̈ͫ̋ͩ.̲̙͔̫͓ͩ͋̎ͦ̈́ͥ̆̆̚͞
< 1293583565 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it won't
< 1293583568 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̢̠͔̳̆̽͛̾͘Z̦̺̺͊ͥ̒̒̏ͫ͜
< 1293583570 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wow, XChat failed at that
< 1293583572 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T̷̞̭̺̩͚̹̙̜͓̞ͭͧ̉ͩ̀ͤͥ̂͂ͨͫ̈ͨ̎̀͆ͨ̊̕o̶͉͔̮̺͙̳͈̰̙̞̝̖̜͕̗͇̣̭ͬ̐̀̈̽̽ͯ̆̔̇̉̕͡͝͝ ̵͎̜̩̹̻̲̜̪̉ͧ̔̓͂̀̈́ͣͤ͗̉͞i̴̢͇̻͍̘̦̜̦̩̜͓͎̗̠͊̉̈́̌͜ṋ͇͕͔̰̱̘̝̼͔͎̼͖͓͋ͬͪ̊́̀v̴̨͈̟͓̬̯̙͍̩̟̙̞̰͛̈́́̓͛͜͢ȍ͗͒͐ͥ̆͏̡͚͖̳̪̼͎͕k̡̛̖̥̭̬͚͙̟̫̰͔̦͖̲͕͖̟̥͈̘ͣ̈̄ͯ̌̌̓̏̈͆̇ͬͯ͊ͣ̋́̕eͭ̈́̀ͥ͂̏̽̈́̏̓̍̋ͤͮ̽̈́͌͐҉̷̛̣̭
< 1293583577 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̮̳̖ ̶̧̼͕̲̤̰͙̠̮͍̦̖̟̺̬̙̳͍̜̣̂̓͒̊ͮ̈́̉̃͑̽͡t̷̿ͧͦͨ҉̖̹̣͈̖̲̗͍͈̤ͅh̢ͮͭ͆ͯ̅̚҉̥̮̮̮͓̥̮͍e̷̡͍̼̲̞̣̘͓̻̠̻͖̩̤̹͔͒̊ͯ͘͟ͅ ̨̝̼͓̼̥̜̘͈̖̏̒́ͨ̑ͫ̌ͫ̿̐ͫ͊́́̒̉́͋̀͞ḩ̵̴̩̞̗͉̤̔̊̾iͭ͌͗ͮͥͤ̾ͭͪ͑ͮͣͨ̑̌̊ͫ͠҉̴҉͏̙̫̹̘͕v̦̠̰̝̱̱̄ͭ̀ͨ͋ͦ̃̂ͬ̊̈̂ͧͩ͐͌̚̕e̸̢̟̫̰͕̲̫ͩ͒ͬͨͫ̾͋̑̐͆̒ͬͮ̚̕-̗͉̱̳̣̥̣̏ͧͣ̿̕m̓̅̄̚
< 1293583582 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̿͐̔ͭͨ̿̓̉ͬ̚͏̷̸̣̭͉̦i̧̩͚̜̜͔̖̞̥̭̇ͪͣ̆ͬͫ̆̐̓̐͢͢n̔ͨ̇͐ͦ̃̉҉̷̠͎̳̝͍̲͚̙̟̬̤̟͉ͅd̐̉̄̾̀́͑ͮ͗̃͛̏ͩ͑̀̆̚҉͏͏̙̺͉͈͈̗͍̪̩̮͚̝̣͙͢͞ͅ ̸̮͓̰̱͎͇̙͔̖̙͓͔͇̙̾͆̊̅̍̄ͮ̿̅̃̃̚͜r̷̡͔̩͚̥̗ͩͮ̄ͨ̕ẽ͌͐͂ͮ̀͂̍ͮ̓́̎̈̊̒͗ͯ͏̴̫̰̙͇̳̙̫͍͈͈̦̙͖͘p̢ͯ̒̋̓ͩ̃ͥ̓̀ͯ̾͛̅ͬͨ̀҉̢̹̝̟̥̬͈̩̩͚͖̟ṛͧ͆̾̽̏ͫͣ͑̋ͤ͐͛ͫ̉̔̓͛̚͟͜
< 1293583583 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, did it?
< 1293583587 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̳̞̗̯̫̟̗̘̣̲̫͚̝ͅe̜͚͚̞̝͎͖̗̺͐ͫ͛̔ͯͧ̐͒͆̊̊ͫ̀͆̋̿ͧ́ͪ̀̕͜͜͞ş̲̦͉̪͔̪ͭ͛ͬ́̈́ͦ̐ͯ̍ͯͫͭ̋̕e͖̟̩̠͐ͫ͒̀̀̚n̽͒͊̆̀͏̰̩̗̜̫̖͚͉̣̤̯͉̻t̡͍͈̦͓͔̟̱̳̰̹̺͈̖̪̪͐ͮͣ̊͗̾̉ͣ͛ͧ̚ỉ͖̗̹̲̩̤̖̗̗̦̹̟̳͎̯͈͒̑̈́ͤ́̕n̴̷̘̞͓͚͔̼̳̣̘͋̃̎̋͐̾ͅͅg̢̧̢̨͖̣̱̙̖̫͔͕͐̉̑͐͆̔̃͊ͩ̋ͮ̈̐̏̋̀͊ͪ ̵̼͎̼̬͚̜͇̔̈͂͊ͦ̿̃́͠͡͡ͅcͬͦ̿͊ͥͬ
< 1293583593 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̸̨̰̩̪͎͍̥̫͔̻͖͍̯͔̤̖̋́͝h̨̙̬͓͈̱͉͖͈̖̫͍̫͕̱̟̼̳̥͌̓͒ͬ̈́̂̇́͛̎͂̈̓͠͞å̴̢̭̘͕̖͔̳̪̠͑̃̒ͭͤ̇̀͝o̴̺̩̰͚͎͚̺͓̭̘͕̠̩̫͍̺ͨͯ̒ͩ̈͂̀͘͜s̈́͒̓͛̎͌ͨ҉̳͎̩̙̣̗̣͍͓̰̟͎̟̖͔.̶̨̧̣̺͙͓̂͑ͬ̏͂ͩͧͪͭ̋ͦͤ͞͡
< 1293583594 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did it fail?
< 1293583596 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̷̥̖̙͓̊̂̏̈ͭ̌ͩͯ̔͛̿ͬ͟͠I̶̷͓̥͔̗̰̼̬̽̽̆̓̐ͭͤ̋̅̍ͥ̒͒̑ͬ͠ͅn̵̶̘̠̳̠͕̥͈̳͈͓̈́͆ͬ̂ͥ̄ͮͨ̆ͫ̎ͥ̎v̛͍̹̲̳̗̼͚̮̹͕̖̺̘̗̲̭̊̀̽͒ͩ͋̓͌͌̿̕ͅö̡̆ͭͭ͊̓̌̈́̿̄̑ͧͦ̎̐͑͑͏̨͙̰̞̭̠̰̹̼̣͍̭k̲̲̪̖̫̗̠͇̼̲̗̣̣̩̟̦ͭ̆̽̈́͐͒ͮ͐̉͑̅̿̎͝ͅi̡̲̦͕͈̗͙̞̜̦̯̽ͯͣ͒͝ñ̵̴̨͇̳̦̦̻̱͚ͫ͛̓̔͂ͯ̍͢͟g̷̴̸̘̱̠̼̫̙̘͕̳̝̥͖̰ͩ̓̿̄ͬ̚͜͠ ͧͨ
< 1293583601 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̨̗͇̱̹̦̺̐͆ͥͭ́͢͝͠t̴̺̝̩̹̺̠͙̺̘̱̤̻͖͓̐͐̈́ͭ͟͠h̲̼̮̰̰̤̞̙̅̒ͯ̃ͤ̽̓́̊̎ͬ͒̇̄ͨ͂͘̕e̸͓̥̯͈̬̘̼̯͕̱̠̖ͪ̔̽͐̈̉͊̿͊̓́̾͛̿͆̇̓͑͟͞͡ ̸̫̥̯̺̺̫̬͓͇̯̼̩͗̓ͣ̉̐̀ͭ̐ͣ̾ͭͪ͆͆́̑̀͠f̸̢̹͈̯̘̖͑̐̈́̏ͤ̊͛͞͡ͅë̶̛̛͙̦̱̻̣͔̘͙̠̣̖̯͇̻͈̓ͩ̔ͭͣ͗̿͒ͯ̎̂̈́̀͠ė̷̠͔̗̜̮̥͖͈̮ͥ̀̉ͪͨͬͩͩ͊͂̈ͭ̐͊ͯ͘͘l̇ͭ̏͋͒͐͑̈́ͭͥ̎̅ͮ̚͟҉̢͠
< 1293583606 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :͖̪̪͇̙͕̣̲̟̻̹̬͕̹̜̱̝͖ĭ̢̡͔͚̼̞͙̖̮̙̯͕̺̪͚̪͔̘̼͓̖̾̉̓ͬ̔ͤ̊̊͒̐̊ͪ̍̓̕͘͟ñ̻̬͓̯̙̪̥̭̞͇͉̯̹̬̘̱͓̏̌ͦ̊͒̓ͦ̈́͜͡g̶̼̥̗̻͓̟̩͚̱̺̗̼̰̈̓̒ͬͯ́́͠ ̧̛̦̺̫͔̥̲͇̪̈͛̌̑ͫ͆ͨͮ͛̆̒̚̚ȍ̧̖̺͎̤̘͈͎̫̱̩̆̽͑ͦͤ͌͌͡͡f̛̜̤̹̙̱̟̩̞̻̱ͣ͂̓̌͗̋ͬ̽ͤ̅̔̅͠ ̶̸̬̝̩̜̱̥̆ͤ͛ͧ̈̔ͩ̕͢͡c̷̵̢̯͉̦͚̘̳̹̘̭͙̦̈̃̊͐͋ͧ̉̾ͩ͊͆͆ͭͤͫ̀
< 1293583611 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̲̖̰͇̲̰̣̳hͥ̓̈̓ͭ̊͛̒̕͏͕̲̘̥̹̲̥̩̹̗͇̼ͅͅaͩ̍̈́̔͐ͥ̋͐̔̾ͩ͗ͮͣͫ̚̚͏̧̩̭̫͉̞͉̗́̕͝ő͎͉̤̈̅̓̆͐ͨ̎͗̽̉͋ͬͪͩ̂͡͝͞ͅs̮̣̮̤̺̘̣͍̱̤͕̠͓̼̗̦͌̔ͣͦͣ̓̊̑̑̏̋̆̿̀̕͜ͅ.̸̶̡̬̖̠̖̦͎̲͖͈͓̲̦͓̱̮͉̥̂̒ͦͩ͟
< 1293583615 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̡͙̳͙͍͓̞͚͖̤̘̯̭̮̹̥͉̊̐̏ͭ̐ͨͯ̿͘͡ͅW̵̨̡̯̮̜̰̩͎͇̠̮̖͚̗̯̬̞̦͓̒ͦ̑̈͑͗̑ͥͩͫͪͬ̋ͦ̂̔̀̚i̅͊ͣͫ̒̊̾́͊ͪ͐ͩ̌͒ͦ͂͏̰͔̞̮͉̹͔̲͖͉̩͎̤̟̳̫ͅt͆̓͐ͫͧ́̉̈́ͪ̋ͣ̄͑ͮ͗͒̓͏̧̛̪͇̳͟͡ͅ
< 1293583619 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1293583621 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is fail :(
< 1293583623 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid IRC length limit :P
< 1293583625 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also XChat cutting off limit
< 1293583646 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you seem to be spitting out line noise
< 1293583657 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: that's just the zalgo.
< 1293583668 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, actually biased noise
< 1293583673 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to unicode combining chars
< 1293583752 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, zalgo is part of zlib right?
< 1293583759 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the z algorithm obviously
< 1293583763 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.. you're right I can read it every few chars there's a real letter
< 1293583859 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: when you going to make websplat work on the wii... so I can have my computer back when my kids come over?
< 1293583901 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, it seems to read as a message
< 1293583903 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: When you buy me a Wii!
< 1293583906 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in lots of unicode combining
< 1293583923 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: is there some kind of debug mode?
< 1293583940 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to give you environment information or such
< 1293583964 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it's failing due to the js engine sucking
< 1293583966 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, doesn't your browser have a js console?
< 1293583985 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I could find
< 1293583990 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: We're talking about the Wii.
< 1293584000 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, make it work in opera mini (note: I doubt this)
< 1293584007 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Buy me a Wi
< 1293584008 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i
< 1293584043 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, verily
< 1293584046 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could go through the source and try to figure it out instead of complaining like a loser
< 1293584081 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is wii wrt. homebrew?
< 1293584085 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, linux
< 1293584114 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's linux and a bunch of homebrew
< 1293584134 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293584134 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the media player is nice, well as nice as SD resolution will allow
< 1293584152 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, SD?
< 1293584155 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :480p
< 1293584178 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, right... I prefer my 24" computer TFT for all purposes
< 1293584191 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except for carrying, then I prefer a smaller 15" laptop)
< 1293584214 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH GOD IT PLUGS INTO A TELEVISION IT'S USELESS
< 1293584219 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_-
< 1293584228 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes, I have a TV from the 80s
< 1293584235 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's sort of your problem
< 1293584241 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lacks scart and so on
< 1293584246 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: calm yourself.. ssh server ;)
< 1293584257 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: I was mocking Vorpal, not agreeing with him.
< 1293584261 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok
< 1293584328 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it /is/ useless compared to a full PC. Except for getting money from buyers
< 1293584344 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You realise it's meant for playing games, yes?
< 1293584358 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes, so why not an advanced PC for it?
< 1293584368 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, see bsmntbombdood's computer for example
< 1293584380 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1293584380 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I am punching you over the internet, and one day, you will be able to experience it.
< 1293584384 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, because, and I know you have trouble with this, MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT YOU.
< 1293584389 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because technology is worthless, today is not that day.
< 1293584393 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But one day, you will feel the punches.
< 1293584395 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that doesn't really answer it
< 1293584403 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY DO NOT WANT AN EXPENSIVE HIGH-END MACHINE TO PLAY GAMES.
< 1293584413 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw cost of bsmntbombdood's machine: $1600
< 1293584416 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cost of Wii: like 3 cents?
< 1293584423 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY WANT A CHEAP, COMPACT GAMES CONSOLE WHICH WORKS WITH VERY LITTLE SETUP EFFORT.
< 1293584432 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, cost of wii games = high, very high
< 1293584433 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got the Wii due to the games available for it
< 1293584440 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, this makes no sense
< 1293584445 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Cost of PC games = high, very high
< 1293584449 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, £40 for new releases, drops off later?
< 1293584449 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes true
< 1293584458 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, more than minecraft
< 1293584469 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, what.
< 1293584471 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: PEOPLE PLAY GAMES THAT AREN'T MINECRAFT
< 1293584480 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, really?
< 1293584486 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, this sounds like a strange concept
< 1293584489 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think most of the games I want to play are PC games
< 1293584492 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not punching you any more; I am using a knife, and it is stabbing you.
< 1293584495 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, quite
< 1293584496 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, hack your wii, download games for bittorrent.. games = $0
< 1293584502 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*from
< 1293584504 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, hah
< 1293584504 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, do please indicate a modern game that's less than £40.
< 1293584508 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A new one.
< 1293584513 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: BTW, making stupid jokes doesn't distract anyone from the fact that you've lost the argument.
< 1293584515 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, just released.
< 1293584517 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: used that to try a couple games before I bought them
< 1293584520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, minecraft.
< 1293584524 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover, minecraft.
< 1293584524 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover, minecraft.
< 1293584525 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover, minecraft.
< 1293584527 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: FUCK OFF >_<
< 1293584529 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, OTHER GAMES.
< 1293584534 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you didn't say
< 1293584539 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FROM A MAJOR GAMES STUDIO
< 1293584542 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but then I don't know. I don't follow that market
< 1293584548 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, ...ugh.
< 1293584552 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And yet you believe yourself to be qualified to speak about these subjects.
< 1293584560 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes I believe they are too expensive
< 1293584562 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are
< 1293584562 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably because you have successfully lodged your head firmly up somewhere it's not meant to go.
< 1293584570 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE FACT THAT GAMES ARE EXPENSIVE IS IRRELEVANT.
< 1293584573 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mental note: never mention the wii in this channel again
< 1293584573 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are talking about *consoles*.
< 1293584583 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are just so utterly, utterly thoughtless. In the literal sense that you put no thought whatsoever into what you say.
< 1293584584 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW: The Wii would still have to be sold if computers existed. As an IR receiver.
< 1293584585 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a controller.
< 1293584593 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those would be a big part of the cost of the Wii itself.
< 1293584595 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, if games were priced like minecraft you would get much less pirating
< 1293584599 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: It's okay, it's just that Vorpal is a moron.
< 1293584599 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait computers don't exist
< 1293584604 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We yell at him no matter what.
< 1293584606 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, Jesus, you just have no idea.
< 1293584606 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure you still get some
< 1293584623 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal is right on one level
< 1293584627 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wrong on so many ohters
< 1293584628 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minecraft is not Half-life 2.
< 1293584637 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I agree.. the wii hardware is total crap
< 1293584643 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO IT'S BETTER BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE FPSES, ERGO, I'M RIGHT
< 1293584645 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D.
< 1293584649 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't get it for that tho..
< 1293584687 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I have to admit being able to put linux on it did make it appealing lol
< 1293584693 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, do you have WoG on Wii?
< 1293584719 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → AWAY FROM VORPAL'S IDIOCY

< 1293584745 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293584759 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, quite. I'm an moron for helping with the cube
< 1293584765 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea why I did in the first place
< 1293584771 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: this? no   http://www.amazon.com/Mario-Sonic-Olympic-Winter-Nintendo-Wii/dp/B001SIFNXW
< 1293584782 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, I meant World of Goo
< 1293584784 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Everything is going to end up in you saying "WAAH CUBE" isn't it.
< 1293584806 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I did not say that
< 1293584809 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, does building stuff like that in MC require special intellect?
< 1293584832 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No.
< 1293584838 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1293584839 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bits Vorpal is helping with are essentially drudge work.
< 1293584839 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very droll
< 1293584864 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, and getting coords, and so on. A lot of stuff you couldn't have done without getting lost
< 1293584865 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, when was the last time I was called a complete idiot?
< 1293584895 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I could have found the lake myself, it would have just taken longer.
< 1293584935 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. you think I'm a complete idiot for thinking gaming consoles are stupid and pointless... right
< 1293584943 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shows you have strong feelings about them
< 1293584946 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What.
< 1293584952 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even own any consoles, the last I bought was the GameCube.
< 1293584952 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: hadn't heard of it.. I assume you like WoG?
< 1293584958 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just think that your reasons are really, really, really stupid.
< 1293584961 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which they are.
< 1293584963 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, maybe they're pointless for you. Other people like Wii games
< 1293585063 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS3 was nice
< 1293585066 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a Wii emulator.. how fast does it run on your fancy pc?
< 1293585068 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you could run linux on it
< 1293585082 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, I wish I had a fancy PC. never invested in one
< 1293585100 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well wish for this convo
< 1293585103 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants a fancy PC

< 1293585105 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have the money
< 1293585114 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't have the need
< 1293585123 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, give me the money? ;)
< 1293585126 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I spend it on other stuff
< 1293585131 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my bad, bsmntbombdood's pc
< 1293585133 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, not going to happen :P
< 1293585150 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, well he could do it. my current computers can't, but I could afford one that could
< 1293585158 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: bsmntbombdood's is i7/SSD/12 GiB, so it should work fairly well :-P
< 1293585162 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a lot cheaper to buy a wii.
< 1293585170 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also, unless you get the IR receiver and the wiimote it's... beyond pointless.
< 1293585177 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's like 60% of the cost of a Wii right there.
< 1293585209 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the games shouldn't have been made for that platform really. Of course emulation is going to be slow
< 1293585230 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait... games shouldn't have been made for the Wii?
< 1293585242 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because emulating the Wii system on PC is annoying?
< 1293585247 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or am I misreading Vorpal
< 1293585249 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1293585251 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are misreading me
< 1293585256 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad they weren't made for pc because then I'd have to boot winblows to play them
< 1293585260 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+1
< 1293585268 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, that is a fair point
< 1293585273 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you are misreading me
< 1293585276 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol.
< 1293585295 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there's no real point to keep talking about this because (1) you've enumerated all of your "points", several times and (2) nobody agrees with them.
< 1293585328 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal said I was misreading him
< 1293585328 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, while /you/ have not given any real substantial reasons
< 1293585332 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe he should clarify
< 1293585336 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only good reason I seen so far is that calamari made
< 1293585364 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah, except, i don't /feel/ like giving any reasons since you're the one spouting bullshit
< 1293585371 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, of course emulation will be slower than native. For any platform, A Wii emulating a PC to play a PC game would be slow as well
< 1293585372 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've /rebutted/ all your stupid reasons and that's enough.
< 1293585374 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not really a good reason... lol
< 1293585400 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, so the "speed for emulating" question is a bit nonsense
< 1293585411 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suggest we stop feeding him
< 1293585436 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not trolling
< 1293585452 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, elliott wants you to die
< 1293585460 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1293585461 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never said you were trolling.
< 1293585464 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i do think we should stop feeding you
< 1293585467 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott has wanted me to die in the past, I'm sure
< 1293585479 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, he wants everyone to die at some point
< 1293585485 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well everyone except himself
< 1293585496 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he could have stabbed me with an icepick through the internet he would have (re: forkbomb article)
< 1293585497 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is very emotional, easy to overreact and so on
< 1293585497 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he probably did
< 1293585514 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, what article was that?
< 1293585523 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I probably would have deserved it a little bit lol
< 1293585535 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: i don't want anyone to die, but hey, in that case pikhq had just as much vitrol as me >:)
< 1293585559 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i don't really overreact so much as I'm always ready to start yelling at you because I find the requirement to come up astonishingly often.
< 1293585572 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you do at other people too
< 1293585577 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like when you used to be able to set Mozilla to load at system startup to make it quicker when you start it
< 1293585598 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not really. I don't recall yelling at ais523 or olsner or Gregor or ...
< 1293585611 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, gregor and autoconf
< 1293585614 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, seriously?
< 1293585617 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you yelled at him
< 1293585620 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't "yell", I disagreed.
< 1293585631 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly with *bold marks*.
< 1293585635 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't recall you yelling at anyone.  do you ever caps lock?
< 1293585635 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, ais523: only once iirc, and over a year ago
< 1293585642 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm an opinionated asshole, it's easy to get into it with me :)
< 1293585646 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, that is rare. But he doesn't yell that way
< 1293585646 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is watching a Bit of Fry and Laurie.

< 1293585651 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The fact that you're *keeping track of who I yell at* suggests you're ... uh, crazy.
< 1293585661 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: love that shit.  which one?
< 1293585662 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I capslock exclusively for Vorpal, it is a privilege and honour reserved solely for ihm.
< 1293585676 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, wrong. You yelled at sgeo I think
< 1293585677 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha
< 1293585695 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I hold down shift at those junctures.
< 1293585698 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: First episode.
< 1293585699 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since he usually shuts up pretty quickly.
< 1293585981 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have misplaced trust in elliott_
< 1293585987 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What.
< 1293585993 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trust in me is always golden.
< 1293585999 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am like a shining pillar of perfection.
< 1293586029 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ?
< 1293586058 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, when was the last time I disagreed with elliott_?
< 1293586067 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the time?
< 1293586068 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I may have misplaced trust in elliott_
< 1293586068 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why
< 1293586087 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I take your opinions too seriously
< 1293586109 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, I *am* always right.
< 1293586133 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1293586198 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, do you know what hubris is?
< 1293586200 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you overstate your positions sometimes, but you have a lot of rightness.  occasionally you make matters of opinion out to be more black and white than they are and that is a bit irksome.
< 1293586212 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Something that doesn't apply to people who are already right.
< 1293586215 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, verily
< 1293586218 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: You see, the thing is that I'm always right.
< 1293586231 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: I do not actually believe that I am always right.)
< 1293586233 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes I do!)
< 1293586236 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(No I don't. etc.)
< 1293586239 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except when i am right and i disagree with you
< 1293586241 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also split personality)
< 1293586253 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: then you're wrong
< 1293586253 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might start to sway me into thinking i'm wrong
< 1293586269 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, don't let that happen
< 1293586269 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then i realize i was wrong about being wrong and was actually right
< 1293586275 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's good to know you are wrong sometimes
< 1293586289 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, are you right about that?
< 1293586322 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes
< 1293586329 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good
< 1293586335 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: unfortunately, you're wrong, that never happens
< 1293586339 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know this because i know it never happens
< 1293586340 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm always right
< 1293586358 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone need instructions for making a cross compiler to RCX on modern linux?
< 1293586369 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a guide, surely /someone/ out there needs it
< 1293586372 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, here's proof you're sometimes wrong...you are wrong about always being right
< 1293586396 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway http://sporksirc.net/~anmaster/lego/rcx-toolchain-guide/guide.html
< 1293586397 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, the smell of nitrogen is overpowering
< 1293586421 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obtw, True Grit is a p cool movie.  i smell an oscar nomination for jeff bridges
< 1293586432 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't nitrogen odorless?
< 1293586442 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I'm pretty sure you can't smell nitrogen
< 1293586451 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION was joking

< 1293586459 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : well, here's proof you're sometimes wrong...you are wrong about always being right
< 1293586460 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong.
< 1293586468 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/esj6l/fire_officials_noticed_a_strong_odor_of_carbon/c1akw23
< 1293586483 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1293586486 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not. It's HTML.
< 1293586488 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that commentor is a moron
< 1293586492 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But whatever
< 1293586503 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: hypertext markdown language
< 1293586539 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, the source of it is
< 1293586545 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, see same file .md
< 1293586567 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well it's a lie
< 1293586569 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ergo you are sometimes wrong
< 1293586571 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I saw no way to make a comment in markdown :P
< 1293586573 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ergo i'm right
< 1293586588 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I never claimed I was /always/ right. I just disputed you were always right
< 1293586602 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I see another typo there
< 1293586605 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I will fix
< 1293586605 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: your Makefile is wrong
< 1293586609 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't define all and clean to be phony targets
< 1293586615 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically you're a failure right
< 1293586628 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well all and clean are not required to be that
< 1293586633 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, if you create them: so what
< 1293586641 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not my issue
< 1293586644 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: touch all; make
< 1293586647 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will produce incorrect results
< 1293586650 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your makefile is WRONG.
< 1293586657 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, so will rm -f Makefile; make
< 1293586663 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, that produces wrong result too
< 1293586675 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but all is a perfectly valid filename and so is clean
< 1293586676 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets slightly creeped out by Reddit Enhancement Suite being in View Source of a reddit page

< 1293586682 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your makefile doesn't say "BREAKS IF YOU MAKE ALL OR CLEAN"
< 1293586694 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you are absurd
< 1293586725 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no elliott_ is quite correct
< 1293586732 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all and clean ought to be phony targets
< 1293586736 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, yes but it is not of any importance really
< 1293586746 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it also breaks if you >guide.md && > guide.html && make
< 1293586748 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one line
< 1293586749 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go do it
< 1293586753 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, this will not rebuild guide.html
< 1293586765 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, now that ehird said it? No :P
< 1293586773 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Vorpal having an off day?
< 1293586776 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :msut be
< 1293586798 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, actually they are already phony locally
< 1293586804 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, so I guess I just forgot to push
< 1293586813 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL THEN PUSH GODDAMMIT
< 1293586820 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, sure.
< 1293586835 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: AMEND
< 1293586895 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[on web browsers]
< 1293586895 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:05:35  Sgeo: what you must do, of course, is write your own
< 1293586896 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:06:23  Able to use WebKit, Gecko, or .. the IE one as necessary
< 1293586896 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:06:32  Able to use extensions from any browser
< 1293586896 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:06:50  Can use GreaseMonkey scripts designed for any browser
< 1293586903 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why, my OS can run Windows, Linux, and BeOS binaries!
< 1293586913 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it can't
< 1293586918 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, refresh
< 1293586922 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it was a joke
< 1293586928 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't even know what you're talking about
< 1293586949 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, since you complained about the makefile above, refresh
< 1293586961 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would that be easier than the browser thing?
< 1293586977 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, ........................................................................................................................................
< 1293586985 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we should kill Sgeo. Also Vorpal.
< 1293586998 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:11:35  Can I use IE6's Trident if IE>6 is installed?
< 1293586999 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:12:11  So that businesses can use this browser in place of IE6
< 1293587037 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you could, with a lot of pain. Such as a VM.
< 1293587040 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and invoke that
< 1293587081 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I miss cpressey.
< 1293587106 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the kernel can be set up to invoke WINE, and WINE keeps improving, a system would run both Win32 and Linux executables easily
< 1293587108 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yeah haven't seen him for a while
< 1293587112 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I wonder where he is
< 1293587120 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: he left because the channel was eating all his time.
< 1293587123 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's still active on the wiki.
< 1293587126 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, ah okay
< 1293587129 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i miss mocking you in /msg!
< 1293587132 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i shouldn't have said that
< 1293587142 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes I know you are a complete turd. So what
< 1293587153 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so cpressey is a complete turd too? :)
< 1293587176 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, probably not. Only 45% or so
< 1293587228 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293587246 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1293587246 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is voxelperfect.net expired?
< 1293587258 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the owner was LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME
< 1293587265 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :this channel is 45% turds on average | voxelperfect.net has expired, the wiki is still reachable at http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1293587281 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will correct the bookmark now.
< 1293587296 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who was the owner?
< 1293587300 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue
< 1293587309 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope esolangs.org won't expire
< 1293587311 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :turds at http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page | historical turds at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1293587317 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought graue owned esolangs.org?
< 1293587325 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ineded
< 1293587326 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Indeed
< 1293587336 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think voxelperfect only had esolangs on really
< 1293587340 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I fixed the bookmark now.
< 1293587357 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   Administrative Contact:
< 1293587357 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm
< 1293587357 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      Feeney, Scott  another.step.away@gmail.com
< 1293587359 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That's Graue.
< 1293587361 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: He ... owned both, and didn't tell us when one expired, even though all it had was esolangs? :P
< 1293587364 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs is a better name anyway
< 1293587373 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, yes I'm scared
< 1293587375 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It might have been an accidental slip; it was just the 27th.
< 1293587379 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: He's edited the wiki recently.
< 1293587383 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And esolangs is registered until 2011.
< 1293587384 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, hm
< 1293587391 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, that is just a few days away!
< 1293587392 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly he got tired of paying for two
< 1293587395 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It conceivably had non-esolangs stuff that just wasn't linked to
< 1293587404 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What.
< 1293587407 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs.org isn't Graue's.
< 1293587413 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Registrant Name:Alan Dipert
< 1293587413 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Registrant Email:completelycrazy@aol.com
< 1293587418 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess we're OK then :P
< 1293587420 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who the heck is that
< 1293587421 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who dat?
< 1293587422 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Created On:24-May-2005 19:21:16 UTC
< 1293587422 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last Updated On:03-Dec-2009 07:12:24 UTC
< 1293587422 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expiration Date:24-May-2011 19:21:16 UTC
< 1293587424 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhh
< 1293587426 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, who is alan dipert?
< 1293587426 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But who is that?
< 1293587431 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have NO FUCKING CLUE :P
< 1293587434 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : uh uh
< 1293587439 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://alan.dipert.org/
< 1293587441 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Then maybe they could get a subdomain if we need to, for non-esolangs stuff? (Except possibly things in the wiki, such as DottyWeb and so on)
< 1293587452 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well at least we have an email
< 1293587456 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google thinks one of his best works is https://github.com/alandipert/ncsa-mosaic
< 1293587478 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, dude how the heck did he get around the license problems of that
< 1293587488 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mosaic is /not/ foss
< 1293587504 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the source has been available for N years.
< 1293587519 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but check https://github.com/alandipert/ncsa-mosaic/blob/1e53bc1a5fb778f0bbcf49364d5947e666f2fbbd/COPYRIGHT
< 1293587536 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Licensee may make derivative works. However, if Licensee distributes *
< 1293587537 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * any derivative work based on or derived from the Software, then *
< 1293587537 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Licensee will (1) notify NCSA regarding its distribution of the *
< 1293587537 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * derivative work, and (2) clearly notify users that such derivative *
< 1293587537 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * work is a modified version and not the original NCSA Mosaic *
< 1293587537 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * distributed by the UI. *
< 1293587547 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically all he had to do was email NCSA and change one line.
< 1293587556 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, hm
< 1293587559 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's (almost) as FOSS as TeX.
< 1293587568 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX you have to change the name; this you have to change the name and tell them.
< 1293587579 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NCSA probably aren't going away ever.
< 1293587580 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm fair enough
< 1293587597 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After NCSA stopped work on Mosaic, development of the NCSA Mosaic for the X Window System source code was continued by several independent groups. These independent development efforts include mMosaic (multicast Mosaic)[19] which ceased development in early 2004, and Mosaic-CK and VMS Mosaic which are both under active development as of July 2010.
< 1293587611 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multicast mosaic?
< 1293587613 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how...
< 1293587615 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/9610_Workshop/paper05/paper05.html
< 1293587645 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1293587658 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/9610_Workshop/paper05/user-ex.gif UNIX!
< 1293587677 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could not look at screens like that all day without vomiting :P
< 1293587683 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually with TeX it is a bit different: Files like plain.tex you have to just change the name; with tex.web you have to put changes in separate files (but can still call it TeX as long as it passes the TRIP test), but the algorithms in TeX are public domain, so I assume the copyright on tex.web is like a collection copyright.
< 1293587698 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, blame mosaic's fucking stupid X resources
< 1293587701 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Fair enough.
< 1293587707 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The cyan background doesn't help
< 1293587720 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, true
< 1293587724 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course, you are still not allowed to call any software derived from it "tex.web")
< 1293587732 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, but bold italic menus?
< 1293587737 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Even if it passes TRIP?
< 1293587739 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, that's just utterly stupid
< 1293587745 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't /think/ that's default.
< 1293587750 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So someone, somewhere, decided to TURN IT INTO THAT.
< 1293587750 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it is
< 1293587752 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genius.
< 1293587753 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: heh
< 1293587766 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is why us typography nerds are important, guys.
< 1293587772 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we'd been around then, we'd have bludgeoned the guy to death.
< 1293587774 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, was like one of the first things I changed when I got the thing to work
< 1293587785 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes and you would have been locked up
< 1293587785 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did you ever try and get Mosaic to work.
< 1293587787 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Yes I think so. However if it doesn't pass TRIP, you are not allowed to call *executables* derived from it + change files "tex". If it does pass TRIP, you can call its executables "tex".
< 1293587789 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott_, yes and you would have been locked up
< 1293587794 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Worth it to avoid Mosaic, innit?
< 1293587794 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good typography is invisible, bad typography is everywhere
< 1293587797 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least this is how  understand it.
< 1293587806 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, worth it anyway!
< 1293587814 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I said.
< 1293587818 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/how  /how I /
< 1293587823 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh right
< 1293587840 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, anyway, I tried mosaic because I was interested in computer history
< 1293587849 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, same as you tried PDP emulators
< 1293587852 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think this is correct? (Knuth hasn't made it entirely clear; but I think this is the intention.)
< 1293587881 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, but history enthusiasts don't try and be a Jew in a realistic reenactment of the holocaust.
< 1293587889 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That is, use of the name TeX is intended to be governed by trademark law, not copyright law.)
< 1293587890 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So why did you revisit an interface holocaust?
< 1293587901 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yet they reenact the civil war and such
< 1293587909 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, but they don't use actual guns.
< 1293587912 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I didn't know the interface
< 1293587916 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using Mosaic is like shooting yourself repeatedly.
< 1293587923 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I found out after
< 1293587930 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You ... didn't know?
< 1293587933 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How long ago was this?
< 1293587937 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, a few years
< 1293587955 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are two things to look at: The copyright page of Computers & Typesetting Volume B, and the comment at the beginning of tex.web.
< 1293587957 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, like, weeks after I learnt C
< 1293587971 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1319327833/clubcompy-kids-heart-computers/posts/46045 "Why Teach Programming with BASIC" ... I think I have another person I need to kill.
< 1293587973 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293587991 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I believe it is like a collection copyright. Do you think this is reasonable?
< 1293587996 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps encourage him, and infect his curriculum with insanity; hopefully it will scare everyone subjected to it off from programming forever.
< 1293588006 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, that's better than having BASIC-weened programmers running around.)
< 1293588009 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Sure.
< 1293588018 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293588063 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, anyway mosaic isn't that bad
< 1293588066 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, apart from the UI
< 1293588069 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the actual code
< 1293588073 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't that bad
< 1293588080 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means only the idea is left
< 1293588080 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But Mosaic is a UI made out of code.
< 1293588082 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that isn't bad
< 1293588088 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes but the non-UI code is also horrible
< 1293588091 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um
< 1293588092 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea is WIMP, and I'd argue WIMP is pretty bad :P
< 1293588109 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the BASIC referred to have decent control structures?
< 1293588114 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they don't teach GOTO
< 1293588132 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what's wrong with 20 GOTO 10?
< 1293588143 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Teaching it to kids
< 1293588162 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, ... did you think I was serious?
< 1293588189 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No comment.
< 1293588194 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1293588195 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what makes Sgeo try and apologise for idiots.
< 1293588239 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, everyone knows you sshould teach programming with LOGO
< 1293588260 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a program once that allowed you to write GWBASIC programs without line numbers (something like WEB, actually; there were a few differences, one was that it printed to Epson control codes).
< 1293588279 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Similarly, BASIC's relative lack of abstractions is an advantage to people who've never programmed before." or, you know, you could just choose a language that has those abstractions but doesn't force them
< 1293588279 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, I'm all for scheme. Though if you are targeting pre-high school that might not work out so well for the majority of the cases.
< 1293588285 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Python comes to mind)
< 1293588321 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Python is a terrible first language to teach.
< 1293588328 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a second language -- or a third language -- or a language.
< 1293588340 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite
< 1293588362 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The big issue that I see with it being a first language is that it's different from mainstream languages in the importance of indentation
< 1293588367 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, an imperative one might work better if you are trageting pre-highschool
< 1293588372 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People might rely on it too much
< 1293588380 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not really.
< 1293588388 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ...shut up.
< 1293588390 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, not for you and me indeed
< 1293588392 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: these are like 10 year olds.
< 1293588395 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Imperative seems intuitive only because we know it.
< 1293588396 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, /but/ for the majority of kids
< 1293588399 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Same with WIMP interfaces.
< 1293588402 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Same with filesystems.
< 1293588413 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can guarantee you that none of these are actually intuitive the first time around.
< 1293588442 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I think you are wrong, but I give you the benefit of doubt. imperative is like shouting commands. functional is like math.
< 1293588470 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Filesystems are like filing cabinets. Object space is like goop. Do you have any idea how much trouble my mother has with filesystems?
< 1293588477 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you can construct metaphors that seem just about right. That's irrelevant.
< 1293588498 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, like goop? eh
< 1293588510 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, formless nothingness where you have to dig to find anything.
< 1293588514 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I make new computer, BASIC and Forth are both built-in to the system. (Others can be installed separately, or cross-compiled from other computers, or whatever.) And BASIC is not recommended for new programs, it is there for compatibility with old computers and old books.
< 1293588519 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Filesystems are not like filing cabinets. That you can construct a bad analogy does not mean that all analogies are bad
< 1293588523 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, hm. Are you sure that is a /good/ thing
< 1293588540 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, also I agree filesystems are bad
< 1293588542 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Of course not.
< 1293588549 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I was showing how metaphors can make filesystems look good.
< 1293588554 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This way makes sense?
< 1293588555 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're intuitive - everyone knows how to use filing cabinets.
< 1293588556 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, but a file system is not the same as imperative programming
< 1293588564 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm DEMONSTRATING HOW METAPHORS ARE NOT A VALID METHOD OF ARGUMENTATION.
< 1293588569 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, I used capslock.
< 1293588570 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I agree they aren't
< 1293588580 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imperative -- it's like shouting commands! No, that doesn't really work at all.
< 1293588588 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And really, is asking for input a command you shout?)
< 1293588591 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The link is very tenuous.)
< 1293588599 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, "WHAT DO YOU WANT?"
< 1293588602 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imperative is a list of instructions.
< 1293588607 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, why not that?
< 1293588621 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway, even if imperative is "easier" to teach it's still a bad idea.
< 1293588623 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes that is better is more like how imperative is like.
< 1293588630 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, so it is
< 1293588643 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, A HOLLOW VOICE SHOUTS PLUGH (yes, yes, paraphrased)
< 1293588645 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather have less people be able to program than a bunch of people who have no idea how to program well.
< 1293588665 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, verily but try to get that past the radar
< 1293588689 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it will be screams about elitism and segregation all over.
< 1293588712 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in Sweden
< 1293588725 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your politics might be different
< 1293588729 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ha, you are so lucky to be able to complain about too *much* populism.
< 1293588735 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For some value of populism.)
< 1293588745 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think programming at pre-high-school level is more likely to get cries of "but that's *useless*!" here.
< 1293588756 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well it would that too
< 1293588788 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, not sure this is populism actually. It is generally the Swedish education style. Dumb things down until almost everyone pass.
< 1293588836 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, well, you see that everywhere because of STATISTICS, we need better STATISTICS, exam results will improve THIS MUCH in five years -- and they do because now they're easy.
< 1293588841 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, this is true up to university level. Then it changes /drastically/
< 1293588843 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I do is this my new make computer, even the manual includes information about how to use these built-in programming languages, and you are encouraged to learn it and write a program. But you do not have to write a program to use this computer; you could just insert the DVD and play the game.
< 1293588844 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Politics is fucked, what's new?
< 1293588877 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how zzo...
< 1293588899 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it doesn't change anything really)
< 1293588911 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it is like pre-installing MSVC or something)
< 1293588980 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to watch Q-Less soon
< 1293589057 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's a Q episode and it's not Enterprise. Prepare for suckage.
< 1293589068 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You meant TNG
< 1293589069 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1293589071 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, yes.
< 1293589077 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*and it's not set on the Enterprise.
< 1293589078 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHA RETCON
< 1293589096 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think it does change some things, the entire computer is very different.
< 1293589096 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's still mandatory?
< 1293589116 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo: It's a Q episode and it's not Enterprise. Prepare for suckage. <-- I was wondering if it was star trek too
< 1293589147 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/too//
< 1293589165 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 watching stuff on YouTube
< 1293589188 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Such as, you do not have to learn any operating system, you can just put the DVD in and push START button if you want; but you can learn the operating system too (or even modify the operating system) if you want to.)
< 1293589190 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like what stuff?
< 1293589197 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Star Trek
< 1293589238 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, split into 10 minute videos?
< 1293589252 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably.
< 1293589256 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because BitTorrent is HARD.
< 1293589272 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, won't they get "aaargh remove this" stuff
< 1293589272 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My wikilog is 528MB
< 1293589276 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus not have them there
< 1293589278 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised that it's not bigger than that.
< 1293589281 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, wikilog hm?
< 1293589285 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that do
< 1293589292 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just heard a quote that I seem to remember has some relevance later
< 1293589299 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it like irc logs which you can comment on, using a wiki?
< 1293589310 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ... no :P
< 1293589319 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, it should be!
< 1293589326 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, (but seriously, what is it?)
< 1293589328 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That ... is nonsense.
< 1293589345 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: My backup of the wiki is stored in hg, so I have a log external to its own log.
< 1293589356 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, oh nice
< 1293589367 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, it is good to know someone has a backup of it
< 1293589404 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are several.
< 1293589444 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, could be that graue lets shit hit the fan and so on
< 1293589456 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(vps/dedi/whatever going away or such)
< 1293589532 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made in TeXnicard, a variation of Martin Pool's natural compare algorithm, but it does more things such as roman numerals compare, numbers with radix point, numbers with comma as thousands separator, and a few more. It is customizable at run time by the S table.
< 1293589543 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is your opinion about this?
< 1293589571 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's very sophisticated
< 1293589580 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could probably use it elsewhere
< 1293589612 0 :mycroftiv!~ircguy@h69-128-47-242.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293589636 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have put it in its own chapter. You could probably use it elsewhere and put a bibliography citation if you want to.
< 1293589896 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: except it's in TeX :)
< 1293589943 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Actually it is in C.
< 1293589963 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, okay.
< 1293589981 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeXnicard is not written entirely in TeX.
< 1293590061 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It does create .tex and .mf and whatever as output files, and then TeX makes the .dvi file, and then TeXnicard will read the .dvi file again and then calls ImageMagick to create .png and so on.)
< 1293590288 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this a proper code in C, assuming both functions have the same return type and arguments?   (fractional?compare_left:compare_right)(pa,pb)
< 1293590530 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Probably not.
< 1293590538 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*(fractional?compare_left:compare_right))(pa,pb) possibly.
< 1293590657 0 :Wamanuz3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1293590683 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, does it handle comma as decimal separator (Swedish use that)
< 1293590684 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Actually it looks like it compiled without error.
< 1293590694 0 :zeotrope!~zeotrope@unaffiliated/zeotrope JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293590699 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can customize those things by modifying the S table.
< 1293590729 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Plenty of invalid programs compile without error.
< 1293590731 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What compiler?
< 1293590741 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: GNU C
< 1293590754 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Try -std=c89 -Wall -pedantic.
< 1293590759 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, if both return function pointers
< 1293590763 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they it sounds valid
< 1293590765 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That will probably tell you it's not valid C90.
< 1293590769 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I won't promise you that
< 1293590774 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "(fractional?compare_left:compare_right)(pa,pb)" I am not sure this is valid.
< 1293590782 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you need to do (*f)() in such a complex expression.
< 1293590790 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, hm maybe
< 1293590818 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, who knows
< 1293590844 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, function pointer syntax is a bit whacky really
< 1293591366 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: did you get an error?
< 1293591639 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also should be kept in mind that 'bastards' is often used in English as a generic derogatory term, not necessarily relating to the marital status of one's parents.[3]
< 1293591899 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Then it makes even less sense, with no moving parts there isn't anything with a velocity.
< 1293591899 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A shutter requiring the energy of a nuclear bomb to work is much cooler to think about."
< 1293591923 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: so have you built that infinite energy machine yet
< 1293591970 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of using it to build a maxwell demon
< 1293591989 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in that case it would have to know where it was, as well as where every air particle is
< 1293592018 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not really the kind of abstract information I was trying to exploit
< 1293592173 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i think the issue is this: fundamentally, infinite information != infinite energy
< 1293592182 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: infinite information *generated according to physics* = infinite energy
< 1293592189 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this box basically violates physics, you can't exploit any byproducts of it
< 1293592232 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1293592236 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I guess os
< 1293592250 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Information confuses me
< 1293592549 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1293592567 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293592883 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: do you know what complexity class Coq is?
< 1293592895 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: it's bigger than PR (has Ackermann) but smaller than R (obviously)
< 1293592901 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia lists no classes in-between those two
< 1293592933 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively what type of automaton it is
< 1293593174 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BARTYOUWANNASEEMYNEWCHAINSAWANDHOCKEYMASK
< 1293593254 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: might have to understand a normalization proof to get a handle on that - I have absolutely no idea
< 1293593277 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: hehe yeah
< 1293593444 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coq guarantees halting
< 1293593446 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1293593457 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1293593544 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yes.
< 1293593549 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: if it did not, it would be inconsistent.
< 1293593571 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_|_ is a proof of anything. also, you would have a _type_ that doesn't halt i.e. _|_ : Set and I have no fucking clue what that would mean
< 1293593575 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it sounds very scary :-)
< 1293593637 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see why it would be inconsistent?  wouldn't it just be incomplete in a different way? (i have never used coq so i need more exposition)
< 1293593702 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: because _|_ would prove everything
< 1293593704 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proofs are values
< 1293593715 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you know Haskell --
< 1293593719 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can initialise any value to undefined
< 1293593727 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, undefined is a value of every type
< 1293593728 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==
< 1293593733 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, undefined is a proof of every proposition
< 1293593733 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Coq
< 1293593771 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1293593801 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it coq/haskell tradition to call bottom undefined? (i don't really know haskell either)
< 1293593804 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p : P  means that p is a proof of P. If we can always reduce p to a normal form the we can make the following argument:
< 1293593823 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no proof of false because there is no normal form proof of false
< 1293593841 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : is it coq/haskell tradition to call bottom undefined? (i don't really know haskell either)
< 1293593842 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell has
< 1293593845 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :undefined = error "undefined"
< 1293593851 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's just haskell tradition
< 1293593857 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coq has no _|_-relevant traditions, as it has no _|_ :)
< 1293593919 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: but being less than total recursive makes it impossible to guarantee p can always be reduced to a normal form and therefore the argument fails?
< 1293593929 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coq has no _|_?
< 1293593930 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O
< 1293593952 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: what do you mean less than total recursive?
< 1293593995 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, does agda always guarantee termination as well?
< 1293593998 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< elliott_> j-invariant: it's bigger than PR (has Ackermann) but smaller than R (obviously)
< 1293594020 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PR?
< 1293594024 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one is that now again
< 1293594029 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: primitive recursive
< 1293594032 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every primitive recursive function is total
< 1293594033 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh right
< 1293594036 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and agda does, unless you tell it not to, in which case you can do whatever you want
< 1293594042 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, ah
< 1293594043 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is used an uncomfortably lot)
< 1293594049 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1293594062 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it should really only be used to make a main loop or such
< 1293594068 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what I feel
< 1293594071 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Solvable groups are sometimes called "soluble groups," a turn of phrase that is a source of possible amusement to chemists. ' <-- hear that chemists??? possible amusment!
< 1293594075 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you don't need that
< 1293594078 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mathworld.wolfram.com/SolvableGroup.html
< 1293594079 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh?
< 1293594080 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say if you have a codata IO monad :-)
< 1293594080 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: my bad...i meant the name of the class of all computable functions
< 1293594094 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, ah
< 1293594100 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: oh man i feel this possible amusement bubbling up in my gut
< 1293594101 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it has that sort of stuff
< 1293594103 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that indigestion
< 1293594107 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, or does it?
< 1293594108 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well no agda doesn't :D
< 1293594108 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik
< 1293594109 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: all computable functions are total
< 1293594112 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, right
< 1293594121 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, does any language?
< 1293594148 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I mean, any implemented one
< 1293594156 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, but thankfully there are only like three languages like Coq and Agda. :)
< 1293594159 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that you can't make a programming language that matches that exactly
< 1293594164 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yes you can
< 1293594164 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: so is my statement correct about said class?  is that the reason the proof fails?
< 1293594168 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, which is the third one?
< 1293594170 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck/w/index.php%3Ftitle%3DTalk:Brainfuck/index.php
< 1293594176 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://damienkatz.net/2008/03/what_sucks_abou.html
< 1293594179 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Epigram? :p
< 1293594182 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh
< 1293594184 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, 1 or 2?
< 1293594185 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides that the criticisms of if are braindead

< 1293594189 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean in a Turing machine
< 1293594192 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the reordering thing though
< 1293594213 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i'm just trolling :)
< 1293594219 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most languages step over the line, and you have a lot of programs which never halt. Coq and others don't cross the line but they try to get close to it
< 1293594222 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: also you can if you acecpt the undefined behaviour of not halting when given an invalid program
< 1293594224 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*accept
< 1293594228 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: no it's a good point I shouldnt' make that assumption implicitly
< 1293594248 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well super-turing languages are pretty useless :p
< 1293594262 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sub-turing languages requiring a super-turing machine to run with full error reporting triply so
< 1293594267 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But it also means you can't distinguish easily at runtime between a string and a list, and especially between a string and a list of integers."
< 1293594280 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, actually super-turing languages are very useful. But not usable
< 1293594283 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typing [97,98] into erlang returns "ab"
< 1293594283 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1293594285 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can understand how Erlang's string stuff has problems... that's not really one of them
< 1293594285 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1293594302 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not having a char type is pretty lame imo but whatever
< 1293594304 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, this is correct. It is the REPL trying to be "helpful"
< 1293594312 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: heheh we should get quad to do a blog post on that
< 1293594318 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It is not helpful if you have some data which happens to be all in ASCII range
< 1293594322 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: if it does unicode, well, wow
< 1293594329 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suddenly everything prints as a string!
< 1293594337 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: it's a more valid complaint than having to write a tiny type signature :-P
< 1293594338 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I'm not sure what it does to random unicode.
< 1293594339 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries

< 1293594348 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: maybe a HEURISTIC
< 1293594355 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :          ((#\[) (let ((body (parse)))
< 1293594355 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                   (cons body (parse))))
< 1293594358 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( this makes my code uglier
< 1293594359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1> [$ä].
< 1293594359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ä"
< 1293594359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2> [$¬].
< 1293594359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"¬"
< 1293594361 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELLL
< 1293594364 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a REPL problem really
< 1293594364 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :¬ is latin-1
< 1293594369 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh fair enough
< 1293594375 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3> [$→].
< 1293594375 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[8594]
< 1293594378 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol.
< 1293594391 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's a problem with the language not encoding rich enough information into values
< 1293594418 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, so the reply tries to be helpful. Also since erlang is dynamically typed there isn't that much point in adding a char type.
< 1293594445 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Give me memory, or give me death!"
< 1293594452 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads

< 1293594453 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet, r5rs doesn't even have command line argument facilities
< 1293594456 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, THAT looks serious
< 1293594464 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I bet r6rs has
< 1293594477 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah it also has an aborted fetus sitting on top of a throne pooping on people who like the language too much
< 1293594483 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not really, but R6RS is of comparable horribleness)
< 1293594486 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1293594492 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: i am sleepy
< 1293594505 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo: it's a problem with the language not encoding rich enough information into values <-- possibly, but dynamically strongly typed sounds... weird
< 1293594518 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The following top-level program obtains the first argument from the command line via the command-line procedure from the (rnrs programs (6)) library (see library chapter on “Command-line access and exit values”). It then opens the file using open-file-input-port (see library section on “)”, yielding a port, i.e. a connection to the file as a data source, and calls the get-bytes-all procedure t
< 1293594518 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o obtain the contents of the file as binary data. It then uses put-bytes to output the contents of the file to standard output:
< 1293594519 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed.
< 1293594591 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://damienkatz.net/2008/03/what_sucks_abou.html <-- unidiomatic use of if. It is not like if of something like C
< 1293594592 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :group theory is so fucking complicated
< 1293594610 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you need to handle all variants
< 1293594618 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is by design
< 1293594658 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it is the wrong way to do it in those examples
< 1293594661 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: damien katz wrote couchdb FWIW.
< 1293594668 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, huh
< 1293594672 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so I _think_ he probably knows that ;)
< 1293594681 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, the first if example: should be case
< 1293594694 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second one: function with two entry clauses
< 1293594768 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Erlang string operations are just not as simple or easy as most languages with integrated string types." <-- actually they work fairly well in my experience
< 1293594795 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders falling in love with Erlang

< 1293594824 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, also he criticises it for single assignment. I rest my case on this point.
< 1293594857 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it looks like a bit of a rant. considering he created and maintains a _very_ popular, complex Erlang system.
< 1293594874 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the memory thing is possibly a valid thing, assuming he's telling the truth
< 1293594881 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"case should_foo(X) of
< 1293594881 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true -> foo();
< 1293594881 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :false -> ok
< 1293594881 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end"
< 1293594883 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that is stupid.
< 1293594909 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well yes, but what would haskell do?
< 1293594920 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if should_foo x then foo else ok
< 1293594920 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, Erlang isn't pure, Haskell is
< 1293594929 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :single-assignment is stupid in an impure language
< 1293594929 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you could use if for it yes
< 1293594952 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "Update: On OS X with the most recent Erlang VM (R12B-1, emulator version 5.6.1), I can no longer reproduce this problem. Yay!"
< 1293594952 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nope
< 1293594960 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, erlang is pure if you stay away from IO and ETS basically (okay process dict too)
< 1293594960 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar() ->
< 1293594960 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  if
< 1293594960 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  should_foo(X) ->  % compile error on this line!
< 1293594960 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    foo();
< 1293594960 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  true -> ok
< 1293594961 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  end.
< 1293594963 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This limitation is due to Erlang's "when clause" pattern matching engine, which needs certain guarantees from the expressions for static optimization. Erlang allows a subset of the built-in functions (BIFs) in conditional expressions, but no user defined functions can be called whatsoever.
< 1293594967 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: from the article
< 1293594969 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, awesome
< 1293594981 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if should_foo x then foo else ok <-- that's haskell for it?
< 1293594986 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it is about as bad
< 1293594990 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite
< 1293594992 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but similar
< 1293594994 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it doesn't mention True and False for no reason.
< 1293595005 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anyway Erlang should at /least/ have realif
< 1293595006 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, fair enough
< 1293595010 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if its "if" statement is so useless :p
< 1293595019 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, realif?
< 1293595033 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real if
< 1293595038 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would agree that records have annoying syntax however
< 1293595038 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one that accepts _any_ condition
< 1293595046 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it does
< 1293595052 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : bar() ->
< 1293595052 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   if
< 1293595052 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   should_foo(X) ->  % compile error on this line!
< 1293595052 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :     foo();
< 1293595052 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   true -> ok
< 1293595052 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you can add any number of clauses?
< 1293595053 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, where can user-derived functions be used in tests?
< 1293595053 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   end.
< 1293595055 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : This limitation is due to Erlang's "when clause" pattern matching engine, which needs certain guarantees from the expressions for static optimization. Erlang allows a subset of the built-in functions (BIFs) in conditional expressions, but no user defined functions can be called whatsoever.
< 1293595059 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly not.
< 1293595061 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : bar() ->
< 1293595063 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   if
< 1293595065 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   should_foo(X) ->  % compile error on this line!
< 1293595067 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :     foo();
< 1293595069 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes that is an issue
< 1293595069 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   true -> ok
< 1293595071 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   end.
< 1293595071 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, a large issue
< 1293595073 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : This limitation is due to Erlang's "when clause" pattern matching engine, which needs certain guarantees from the expressions for static optimization. Erlang allows a subset of the built-in functions (BIFs) in conditional expressions, but no user defined functions can be called whatsoever.
< 1293595077 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ^
< 1293595077 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, that iirc is working on being fixed
< 1293595079 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not real if.
< 1293595080 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, already partly fixed
< 1293595083 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, right
< 1293595086 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice language revision.
< 1293595092 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it meant to be stable?
< 1293595103 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it won't break anything existing to add this
< 1293595104 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, exactly, do large Erlang programs do currently?
< 1293595114 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo has a knack of asking terrible questions
< 1293595116 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it will let more code compile, it won't let less code compile
< 1293595118 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*knack for
< 1293595129 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes I'm trying to figure out what the hell he meant
< 1293595142 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think he means to combat the IMPOSSIBLE PROBLEM OF "IF".
< 1293595149 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1293595158 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I never found it a problem in practise
< 1293595182 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Update: On OS X with the most recent Erlang VM (R12B-1, emulator version 5.6.1), I can no longer reproduce this problem. Yay!" right this is old
< 1293595187 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R12B-1 ?
< 1293595188 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/wumpus/src/wumpus.erl THIS IS THE MOST ENTERPRISEY WUMPUS GAME EVER.
< 1293595189 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very old
< 1293595194 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the post was posted 2008.
< 1293595195 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you can see.
< 1293595200 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, even then it was somewhat old
< 1293595210 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, it was the most recent.
< 1293595212 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously.
< 1293595213 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as he says.
< 1293595217 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does not want to live in a world where 2008 is somewhat old, incidentally.

< 1293595217 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, erlang got unicode after R12B. It has lots of new stuff since then
< 1293595224 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://catseye.tc/projects/wumpus/src/wumpus.erl THIS IS THE MOST ENTERPRISEY WUMPUS GAME EVER.
< 1293595229 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :behold the enterprisey
< 1293595232 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* elliott_ does not want to live in a world where 2008 is somewhat old, incidentally. <-- eh?
< 1293595238 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, wow
< 1293595248 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think I don't like cpressey any more
< 1293595253 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ... perverse
< 1293595275 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I wouldn't use a record when you have like 4 members
< 1293595280 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would just use a tuple
< 1293595288 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Should data structures ever have more than four members?
< 1293595305 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well, sometimes that might be the best option
< 1293595311 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (Apart from boring enterprisey database stuff (like table of personal information).)
< 1293595320 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, what about a bf compiler
< 1293595332 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, that wumpus code has a nice antipattern: passing around a gigantic world state and returning new versions of it.
< 1293595341 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really stupid because ... it's imperative, you just hide it behind a lot of mess.
< 1293595351 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, heh
< 1293595363 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, no it doesn't
< 1293595367 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, digraph....
< 1293595373 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ?
< 1293595373 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :digraph uses ETS
< 1293595378 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%% The state of almost the entire game is encapsulated into one record,
< 1293595378 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%% so it can more easily be passed between functions.
< 1293595378 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-record(game,
< 1293595378 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{
< 1293595378 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  map,       % a digraph representing the cave system
< 1293595379 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  location,  % a vertex representing the player's current location
< 1293595379 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no idea why)
< 1293595380 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  arrows,    % an integer representing the number of arrows left
< 1293595382 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  nasty      % a list of hazard records representing the nasties
< 1293595384 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}).
< 1293595386 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, digraph uses ETS!
< 1293595393 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shaddap.
< 1293595396 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it is impure
< 1293595418 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Parts of this program were derived from the Erlang example program bf.erl."
< 1293595421 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that's some example program.
< 1293595448 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, that game records will look like this tuple: {game,,'strange$atom$whatever',42,[a,list,of,some,sort]}
< 1293595452 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :record*
< 1293595480 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh.
< 1293595493 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I don't remember what an ets table reference looks like
< 1293595499 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, probably /not/ 
< 1293595520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, could be an atom, could be something else
< 1293595570 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recently made a variant of Wumpus game, some of the differences are: that you do not always know exactly where you are, that the game is scored, that there is a time limit, etc...
< 1293595595 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the zzo edition of the world would be a strange place
< 1293595606 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0mg cPR£ESSY!!!! http://catseye.tc/projects/openflax/openflax_core/doc/design/api.html itz 1nvalid
< 1293595617 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll stay away from Erlang
< 1293595630 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, erlang is decent. But it isn't perfect.
< 1293595638 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sums it up pretty well I think.
< 1293595658 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, probably wrong mime type
< 1293595668 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah he needs to set it as text/html ... or de-xhtml everything :)
< 1293595701 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, or add those quotes. works too
< 1293595709 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not if it has other errors :P
< 1293595724 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well he could fix those as well
< 1293595751 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, probably easier than reconfiguring web server
< 1293595758 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is part of the CGA Collection, which can be downloaded at:  http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/GAMES/cgacoll.zip
< 1293595758 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: He already has an .htaccess of overrides.
< 1293595768 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh?
< 1293595776 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, apache is shit
< 1293595778 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When pikhq bugged him into fixing the types.
< 1293595786 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Pretty sure he uses a shared host.
< 1293595791 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293595811 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you try the CGA Collection games?
< 1293595820 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1293595861 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has 27 games.
< 1293595878 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay and?
< 1293595935 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293595964 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you can try one or more of them.
< 1293595976 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, works under linux as is?
< 1293595997 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, they are all DOS programs. But maybe you can run them in a DOS emulator they should work.
< 1293596006 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, too lazy to even consider it
< 1293596024 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what port is your irc server
< 1293596027 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or, recompile them for Linux; although doing so probably requires modifying the programs)
< 1293596031 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Port 194
< 1293596057 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe I should specify it in my userpage?)
< 1293596074 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah no one uses it, though it is allocated
< 1293596089 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Incorrect! zzo38 uses it!
< 1293596107 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* cthulhu :Summoning user to IRC
< 1293596107 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* summon :Unable to SUMMON at this time
< 1293596112 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What is it meant to do.
< 1293596155 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: You cannot summon too often.
< 1293596158 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, presumably SUMMON from original RFC
< 1293596190 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I made it so after SUMMON is used, it sets a timer and you cannot summon anymore until the timer is expired)
< 1293596203 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use the HELP SUMMON command for help, too.
< 1293596249 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The only solution we've found is to create a parent watchdog process to monitor the VM and restart it if it crashes." <-- erlang includes this
< 1293596269 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and iirc the bug that it was killed too was fixed
< 1293596370 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: How was SUMMON CTHULHU broken?
< 1293596477 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Anything in Erlang using a GUI, like the debugger or process monitor, is hideous on Windows and pretty much unusable on OS X." <-- aka Tk.
< 1293596494 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(been fixed since in many cases)
< 1293596577 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(still I can live with tk, some people can't(
< 1293596577 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No
< 1293596581 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the VM /itself/ was failing
< 1293596584 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/(/)/
< 1293596588 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, on os x?
< 1293596589 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the /entire VM/ needed to be restarted
< 1293596594 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, yes I know
< 1293596602 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, thus the heart process
< 1293596609 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has been fixed since
< 1293596637 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, fixed since, but you made it sound like it was never the case
< 1293596644 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, no I didn't
< 1293596653 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "The only solution we've found is to create a parent watchdog process to monitor the VM and restart it if it crashes." <-- erlang includes this  and iirc the bug that it was killed too was fixed
< 1293596663 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, how was this not clear
< 1293596755 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..
< 1293597414 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293598102 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293598162 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fixed it.
< 1293598211 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I broke it.
< 1293598230 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: You did? Then *you* fix it this time.
< 1293598239 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no
< 1293598420 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it should automatically do FLUSH when doing PART or QUIT
< 1293598898 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Latest xkcd was meh
< 1293598965 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems Martin Pool's natural compare algorithm is no book or journal, how can I cite it in the bibliography, then?
< 1293599223 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://sourcefrog.net/projects/natsort/ presumably
< 1293599269 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I looked at that URL, I can see no information about citations there.
< 1293599280 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Cite it as http://sourcefrog.net/projects/natsort/.
< 1293599285 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Martin Pool, Natural Order String Comparison; http://sourcefrog.net/projects/natsort/.
< 1293599287 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or whatever.
< 1293599413 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I did like that.
< 1293599472 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I made it slightly different to match the style of the citation for the random number algorithm.
< 1293599566 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the other one has a date it says "Marsaglia (July 2003)" should this one have a date too?
< 1293599657 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is there no date?
< 1293599835 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: There is probably a date, but it doesn't mention one, so who knows.
< 1293599974 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will just omit the date for now.
< 1293600120 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1293600291 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyvJI2nch24
< 1293600674 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My Cryptography & Computer Security professor: " When you speak of me, speak well."
< 1293601068 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have located the location of the music box
< 1293601145 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293601295 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q: What's hot, chunky, and acts on a polygon? A: Dihedral soup.
< 1293601304 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mathworld.wolfram.com/DihedralGroup.html
< 1293601319 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Renteln and Dundes (2005) give the following (bad) mathematical joke about the dihedral group"
< 1293601504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless someone tells me what's so bad about Racket other than not being Scheme-like enough when it was called PLT Scheme, I am going to try it
< 1293601546 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the only bad thing about racket is the stupid name
< 1293601594 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO, the only stupid names are ungoogleable
< 1293601638 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck you, factor newspeak j c
< 1293601646 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1293601771 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard good things about Racket's module system
< 1293601901 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1293603766 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I like Racket
< 1293603777 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although so far haven't seen anything that's Racket-specific
< 1293603781 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1293603791 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, some stuff, but it's trivial and not too relevant to me liking it
< 1293603855 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w/in 48
< 1293603865 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the macro debugger is great
< 1293603867 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: try that out
< 1293603893 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, hm?
< 1293604272 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Racket's guide's length example isn't tail recursive
< 1293604286 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They know *shrug*
< 1293604524 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's odd
< 1293604572 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, hmm?
< 1293604586 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have an example afterwards making a tail-recursive version
< 1293604587 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-57-8.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293604712 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293604874 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O at Racket's infix convention
< 1293605060 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1293605193 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The number categories integer, rational, real (always rational), and complex are defined in the usual way"
< 1293605196 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhhhh
< 1293605296 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a known diagonal c/2 fuse in GoL?
< 1293605675 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it seems there is...a very simple one too
< 1293605972 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if (void) #t #f)
< 1293605989 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably install Racket at some point
< 1293606097 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the different types of hashes, tbh
< 1293607050 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (rational? (sin 1/2))
< 1293607050 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#t
< 1293607051 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (sin 1/2)
< 1293607051 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.479425538604203
< 1293607051 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (exact? (sin 1/2))
< 1293607051 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#f
< 1293607063 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genius!
< 1293607073 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that sarcasm?
< 1293607083 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is
< 1293608306 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: WOW "This statement is out and out slander; it is frankly sick."
< 1293608429 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm?
< 1293608807 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1293609599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1293609600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293609788 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(struct dot (x y) #:mutable)
< 1293609789 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr
< 1293609805 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Syntactic forms are allowed to do that with keywords, but regular functions aren't?
< 1293610844 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1293611355 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm
< 1293611363 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if I want to use alternate PLaneTs?
< 1293612192 0 :a1234567890!~a12345678@61-225-134-248.dynamic.hinet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293612370 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1293612380 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293612582 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, no elliott-variant here today?
< 1293612632 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I recently discovered that pretty much every clever idea I had about my kernel/user interface already exists in L4
< 1293612652 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if this means I'll be making an L4 clone, because that'd be a bit boring
< 1293612907 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it something like 08:30am in elliott-land? I think he's usually here later in the day.
< 1293613015 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe more 09am, but still.
< 1293613112 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right... but why log out of irc, he should just use it as a messaging service while away
< 1293613654 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he switches off his computer
< 1293613895 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that's just absurd!
< 1293615443 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293615567 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS NO ABSURD AT ALL
< 1293615709 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... 3G IMS (IP Multimedia System) is IPv6-only.
< 1293615775 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION o.Os at Racklog

< 1293615828 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Racket's goal is to consume all possible uses for any languages into itself.
< 1293615847 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a LaTeX substitute, a Prolog substitute
< 1293615984 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was about to comment on Factor's presentation stuff, but Racket has that too
< 1293617077 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-4-149.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293617432 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293617551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, an unusual side effect of a) being ill, and b) sleeping all day and waking all night
< 1293617564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that you end up picking an incredibly dark theme for your operating system
< 1293617573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the 'a' key on my keyboard has become unreliable, which is really annoying
< 1293617611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think that's unrelated
< 1293617982 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293617990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I just got my first spam ever on my callforjudgement email account
< 1293618005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is completely full of apparently deliberate typos
< 1293618021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the extent that they've embedded alphanumeric line noise in the middle of about half the words
< 1293618033 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Can you add spellcheck to the spam checking program?
< 1293618060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a representative line, the spam is apparently from "Danial@kdelbhljaakgltdgkfleh.{SPF_D1}"
< 1293618067 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1293618074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hmm, I fear it would cause too many false positives
< 1293618096 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do spammers do that, exactly?
< 1293618106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get round spam filters
< 1293618116 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to use email a long time ago. So, I think any message with tabs in the subject line is probably spam message.
< 1293618116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that they no longer care if anyone actually reads the spam
< 1293618140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(likely, it's subcontracted; someone pays someone else to make sure spam is delivered, that person holds up the letter of the agreement)
< 1293618181 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Maybe that is how it works.
< 1293618189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this theme really shows up what a) has a hardcoded foreground /and/ background, b) hardcodes exactly one of the two
< 1293618194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :white on white ftw
< 1293618258 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But now days if someone tries to send me spam message they will probably get error due to unreachable SMTP server.
< 1293618280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott for the logs: Brainfuck/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brainfuck/index.php is completely obviously a finite state machine
< 1293618287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all defined programs halt, thus only use a finite amount of memory
< 1293618294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can just run them to see how much they use
< 1293618395 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that if you do not care about errors, any valid Brainfuck/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brainfuck/index.php program can run in a normal brainfuck interpreter.
< 1293618499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1293618520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I think elliott's trying to stop spambots editing the wiki by creating a legitimate page at every title they try to create
< 1293618530 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc1-sgyl29-2-0-cust788.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293618549 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some services require my email address to register, so in that case I can start the SMTP server and then when the message is received, I can stop the SMTP server. If they try to send spam message to me later, they will be unable to connect to the SMTP server to send a message!!
< 1293618572 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: but what if the ywant to send you useful information about your account?
< 1293618630 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: They can't. I don't want them to. If I need to know something about my account I will log in and see what happened.
< 1293618672 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1293618691 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is annoying my program is taking too long to compile
< 1293618709 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to be taking a massive effort to complie this single line of code
< 1293618745 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What program is that?
< 1293618773 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a definition that says given functions x -> a and x -> b we have x -> a*b
< 1293618788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't written in (oklopol's) Clue, is it?
< 1293618816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note, there are two esolangs called Clue, it's about time the wiki had a disambiguation page, but I don't think they're both up yet)
< 1293618829 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1293618940 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like to see natural sort algorithm (and the other algorithms)?  See it at:  http://sprunge.us/KiaC
< 1293619112 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long have you worked on this code?
< 1293619190 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293619476 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember how long, but I do remember I have started some time this month (I don't remember what day though).
< 1293619670 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293619931 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I cannot find oklopol's Clue?
< 1293619982 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231049092.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293620206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it isn't on the wiki
< 1293620209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was discussed in-channel a bit
< 1293620224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but basically, you give a bunch of input/output pairs and the interp bruteforces the actual program
< 1293620249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the interesting construction in the language is designing it so that that actually works in a plausible timeframe, and so that you always get the right program
< 1293620257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is done by giving clues, thus the name of the language
< 1293620394 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Maybe it should be added into the wiki
< 1293620475 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293622125 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :morning
< 1293622128 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1293622760 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the halting-problem always solvable of sub-Turing, if you have a Turing machine to solve it?
< 1293622826 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, if elliott joins and I'm not around, give him a clip on the ear from me.
< 1293622830 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What computational classes is halting problem always solvable for?
< 1293622855 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: lots of languages where every program terminates - that's one class its' decidible for
< 1293622860 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decidable*
< 1293622867 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He (or I assume it was he) left some TNT next to the door at Mt. Hoover.
< 1293622873 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The door with a pressure plate.
< 1293622891 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately, the explosion didn't actually punch through the mountain.
< 1293622959 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think there should be sub-Turing languages for which the halting problem is undedicable but I couldn't think of one yet
< 1293623030 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's decidable for FSAs, isn't it?
< 1293623140 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a language has finite memory you can solve the halting problem by checking if it enters the same state twice
< 1293623179 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Corollary: the halting problem is decidable for C.
< 1293623829 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I can't figure out an answer to that but very interesting question I hope someone knows
< 1293623883 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does seem like every language for which the halting problem is undecidable is turing equivalent though - I retract my guess from earler
< 1293624056 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can cheat the question (like having a language whose programs are mathematical propositions, if true they compute 1 if false they diverge -- so this language only computes the set {1} but it's halting problem is undecidable) but that's not a good answer
< 1293624725 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to program a halting problem into a string of Typographical Number Theory?
< 1293624819 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293625315 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand "Typographical  Number Theory?
< 1293625318 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand "Typographical  Number Theory"
< 1293625331 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like you take Peano Arithmetic and ... call it something else?
< 1293625443 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The set of positive values of 2y^4x + y^3x^2 - 2y^2x^3 - y^5 - yx^4 + 2y for positive integer inputs are exactly the fibonacci numbers
< 1293625481 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: using more complicated polynomials (higher degree and more than 20 variables) you can encode any turing machines in this way
< 1293625546 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously?
< 1293625579 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yeah it's Hilberts 10th, solved by Matiyasevic and Robinson and others
< 1293625589 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("solved" negatively)
< 1293625591 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool.
< 1293626356 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293626443 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION laughs at some code.

< 1293626460 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://programming-puzzler.blogspot.com/2010/08/racket-vs-clojure.html
< 1293626471 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know enough about Racket to comment on those criticisms
< 1293626484 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's meant to populate Oolite with an ultra-rare type of ship; the probability seems to have been intended to be 0.02.
< 1293626530 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it does so 30 times, so the probability of seeing it is nearly 0.5.
< 1293627089 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, one of the people on the Oolite board is from Hexham. I should tell elliott.
< 1293627316 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/steam.com
< 1293627321 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Geniuses, the lot of them
< 1293628062 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293628177 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, zuh?
< 1293628203 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're acting as thought steam.com is trying to steal Steam passwords
< 1293628405 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right.
< 1293630182 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This episode of DS9 features: Braindead computer security, and medical pseudoscience
< 1293630199 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Humanoids only use a small portion of their brain"
< 1293630951 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God I hate that statement.
< 1293630971 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so obviously false for so many reasons.
< 1293631249 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal, if elliott joins and I'm not around, give him a clip on the ear from me. <-- sure, one paper clip pushed through the ear (I hope you planned to get earrings anyway!)
< 1293631257 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;)
< 1293631350 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293631421 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-35-218.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293631647 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SG-1's treatment of this plot idea was better
< 1293631773 0 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293632030 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although SG-1 also pulls the same "We only use a small portion of our brains" bullshit
< 1293632927 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293633185 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293633589 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1293634046 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1293634148 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what plot idea?
< 1293634173 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, with the ancients' learning machines
< 1293634952 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001f5b00390f-CM001e6b2335dc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293635119 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh?
< 1293635333 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293635815 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What makes it /obviously/ false?
< 1293635860 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hi there. been on mc recently?
< 1293635872 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah
< 1293635877 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, someone (we haven't found out how) was careless in the TNT room
< 1293635888 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I saw your messages about it earlier (yesterday?)
< 1293635890 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, me and ehird helped rebuild things.
< 1293635900 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, a few days ago. Yesterday we were working on the cube
< 1293635913 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, it was the day before
< 1293635939 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, took a few days to repair it, so I would say at least 4 days ago (point of discovery)
< 1293635957 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-12-27 04:56:04#esoteric: ( Vorpal) Deewiant, your wonders of the world looks blown up
< 1293635968 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293635971 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1293635974 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :middle of night
< 1293635983 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant in "number of times I slept"-days
< 1293635986 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd call that "early morning" already ;-)
< 1293636003 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, 3 sleep-times ago
< 1293636012 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, or such
< 1293636045 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway, we did not add back the TNT, and some signs in the cactus/reed/wheat section are missing (we didn't know how they were placed)
< 1293636075 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but it blew out a large area. Even sand, gravel and clay on the opposite side
< 1293636079 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough
< 1293636105 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actually the outer wall behind clay was missing
< 1293636109 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember how exactly the signs were placed either, it doesn't exactly matter whether it's precisely the same ;-P
< 1293636149 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I was at a Boxing Day party when it happened, so that gives you a clue as to the date.
< 1293636167 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no that was the day after iirc?
< 1293636180 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I know you blamed me.
< 1293636190 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, we /asked/ you if you had done it
< 1293636218 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway, if you add TNT again that isn't behind glass and inside an obsidian room we will be rather disappointed (and also not help if it happens again)
< 1293636252 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you rebuild it so that there's space for obsidian on all sides? ;-)
< 1293636266 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, you need more than that
< 1293636298 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's impossible to put on display in a room like that without leaving at least some direction open for destruction
< 1293636299 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you need some sort of zig-zag walkway to it. So the blast doesn't get through the "door"
< 1293636307 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite
< 1293636313 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, actually just a zigzag walk works
< 1293636328 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway, a single TNT behind glass might be acceptable
< 1293636330 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, but that already takes up more space so it's a different kind of room.
< 1293636335 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like the pumpkin)
< 1293636472 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1293636475 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the TNT is there again
< 1293636491 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1293636508 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yesterday the server crashed. Some chunks were reverted then it seems. Including that chunk
< 1293636528 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, XD
< 1293636627 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, how fortunate.
< 1293636628 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1293636637 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOO FORTUNATE
< 1293636641 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, not really, since i had to re-empty a lava lake
< 1293636647 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that also reverted
< 1293636861 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, come see the Cube!
< 1293637081 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps later
< 1293637090 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You also didn't answer my question
< 1293637106 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right.
< 1293637113 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What makes what obviously false?
< 1293637122 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the 10% thing.
< 1293637151 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for one thing, something like that would almost certainly be evolved out quickly.
< 1293637186 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, one of the reasons childbirth is more dangerous for humans than other animals is the much larger size of the baby's heade.
< 1293637188 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*head
< 1293637203 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you have a selection pressure towards smaller brains right there.
< 1293637226 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough
< 1293637235 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That issue wasn't obvious to me, though ;-)
< 1293637718 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293638621 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc1-sgyl29-2-0-cust788.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293640144 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293640286 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293640800 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh the forum rss points all the links to voxelperfect.net even if i subscribe from esolangs.org
< 1293641471 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, weird, but surely not that bad?
< 1293641501 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: you didn't notice the discussion that voxelperfect.net has expired?
< 1293641511 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has‽
< 1293641520 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i put it in the topic but _someone_ has changed it again
< 1293641528 0 :ehird!5b697dd4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.105.125.212 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293641544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess what I'm not using.
< 1293641551 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S A TIME TRAVELLER FROM THE PAST
< 1293641568 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: deodorant?
< 1293641569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, I don't use this nick any more, do I...\
< 1293641572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliott
< 1293641581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I will ignore that insult...THIS TIME.
< 1293641586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1293641586 0 :elliott!5b697dd4@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293641586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1293641586 0 :elliott!5b697dd4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.105.125.212 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293641595 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1293641627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god, Sgeo's learning a new fucking language.
< 1293641634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way to put a damper on my day.
< 1293641646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And liveblogging^WliveIRCing it too.
< 1293641693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:59:32  (if (void) #t #f)
< 1293641699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The result of that is undefined.
< 1293641704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(void) is not standard Scheme anyway.
< 1293641710 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :turds at http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page | turds at voxelperfect.net have expired | historical turds at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1293641712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, Racket might give a consistent value, but Racket has no standard.)
< 1293641720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw esolangs.org isn't owned by Graue
< 1293641724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I discovered yesterday
< 1293641741 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: huh?
< 1293641756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what's huh
< 1293641758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the domain itself
< 1293641812 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.  i noticed yesterday but somehow got the domains switched in my mind
< 1293641830 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i thought it was a different name because it had expired, or something
< 1293641851 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok who the heck _is_ alan dipert
< 1293641873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: zis guy
< 1293641877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I googled him, he's just a random dude.
< 1293641879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of dudeness.
< 1293641890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no apparent relation to our community except being strange (he has a fork of NCSA Mosaic on github)
< 1293641903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE ANSWER TO "WHAT AM I NOT USING?" IS MY LAPTOP, FRIENDS
< 1293641922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sorry, we're no longer hardware buddies.
< 1293641951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:24:40  elliott for the logs: Brainfuck/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brainfuck/index.php is completely obviously a finite state machine
< 1293641964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you SURE
< 1293641965 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that sounds disturbing given that that domain is about to expire soon as well
< 1293641971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there are programs that use N bytes of memory for all N
< 1293641977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, because it was last renewed in 2009
< 1293641982 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why is Sgeo learning a language so bad?
< 1293641984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: we have no reason to suspect he doesn't feel like renewing it
< 1293641993 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sure hope _someone_ knows him
< 1293641995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because he thinks he's smarter than language designers and complains about stupid shit
< 1293642003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well email the bastard :)
< 1293642013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:28:40  also, I think elliott's trying to stop spambots editing the wiki by creating a legitimate page at every title they try to create
< 1293642022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, I'm trying to make it hard on the wiki sysops to protect talk pages
< 1293642028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have been a Discordian in another life
< 1293642034 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "stupid shit" is a bit ambiguous here. "Stupid things in the language" vs. "stupid complaints"
< 1293642035 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well i already emailed graue, i'll wait for an answer
< 1293642041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: latter
< 1293642045 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293642078 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what why
< 1293642085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: why what
< 1293642121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU GUYS, YOU ARE TOTALLY NOT TAKING MY ALL-CAPSED BAIT
< 1293642179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:41:07  He (or I assume it was he) left some TNT next to the door at Mt. Hoover. 03:41:13  The door with a pressure plate. 03:41:31  Fortunately, the explosion didn't actually punch through the mountain.
< 1293642181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what?
< 1293642186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: I didn't know pressure plates activated TNT
< 1293642194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the TNT has been there for a day or two, t'was an accident; I was planning to remove it safely
< 1293642257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:51:29  Hey, one of the people on the Oolite board is from Hexham. I should tell elliott.
< 1293642263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Are they competent? :p
< 1293642291 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lag spikes now
< 1293642295 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks at ineiros 

< 1293642309 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :been fine for hours
< 1293642345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: he won't stop skype just for MC so why bother mentioning it?
< 1293642349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm I should redownload Minecraft
< 1293642356 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, redownload?
< 1293642373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes FINALLY SOMEONE TAKES MY BAIT.
< 1293642376 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, competent in which sense?
< 1293642387 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why *re*-download
< 1293642397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Can e program? If not, can e form correctly-spelled and punctuated sentences that express coherent thoughts?
< 1293642409 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he had about 3 posts.
< 1293642410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 'CUZ I DON'T HAVE IT ON MY SHINY NEW LAPTOP DUH
< 1293642418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ how did it take you that long to fall into that trap
< 1293642419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh
< 1293642419 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh right, not much of a bait
< 1293642425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: SHUT UP
< 1293642432 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but first you must try out dwarf fortress
< 1293642435 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and report FPS
< 1293642438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evidently in Apple Time, 31st means 29th
< 1293642446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not complaining
< 1293642451 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait, he has 418 posts.
< 1293642460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah, not until I get an IRC client :-P
< 1293642495 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott waiting with baited breath
< 1293642502 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello.
< 1293642505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: die in a fire :}
< 1293642511 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have absolutely no idea about him other than that he is from Hexham and his punctuation and spelling are good
< 1293642514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if iChat supports MSN now.
< 1293642522 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, going to run linux to it. Or will you live in the flash-hating vendor-lockin closed apple world (right, so that product is a normal laptop, but still)
< 1293642523 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sorry, need to download Ubuntu. Stat!
< 1293642525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOPE
< 1293642530 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how rude.
< 1293642533 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, incidentally!
< 1293642538 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are building the cube!
< 1293642549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'll put Linux on it sometime
< 1293642552 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, ah, about how long will it take do you think?
< 1293642554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: not without me I hope!
< 1293642558 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which requires excavating an approximately 128x128x64 cuboid!
< 1293642568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't work on the cube without me to supervise ;x
< 1293642575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of you UNDERSTAND my ARCHITECTURE
< 1293642584 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So can we finally have a TNT kit?
< 1293642597 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, surely we can drain without you?
< 1293642599 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is rather trivial for the shell actually :P
< 1293642604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Okay fine.
< 1293642611 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the issue is the interior floors, which I leave to you
< 1293642613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And explode too.
< 1293642617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no expanding the glass wall! :p
< 1293642621 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, TNT kit! ineiros, we beseech you!
< 1293642634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: IF YOU DON'T GIVE ME A TNT KIT I'M GOING TO BLOW UP EVERYTHING
< 1293642646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAVE LIKE 6 STACKS OF EASILY-ACCESSIBLE TNT AND I'M NOT AFRAID TO USE THEM
< 1293642666 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HE USED THEM ON MY FREAKING MOUNTAIN
< 1293642670 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the wrong method
< 1293642676 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The stacks will be less available if I blow up the server.
< 1293642677 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you are just making it /less/ likely
< 1293642677 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you're demoted to HHI janitor
< 1293642690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: I'LL BLOW UP YOUR FAMILY
< 1293642695 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1293642698 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now you're promoted to landscape architect.
< 1293642705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND YOUR DOG
< 1293642712 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try to get to your TNT needs today.
< 1293642717 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your first job is to ment the
< 1293642717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See?
< 1293642717 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this is exactly the opposite of what you need to tell him
< 1293642722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm very convincing.
< 1293642725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Worked, didn't it?
< 1293642728 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mend the crater outside the door of the research facility.
< 1293642730 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No. :)
< 1293642738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: Poor Woof.
< 1293642745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only wish he did not have to die.
< 1293642746 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nah, I think you didn't manage to make him change opinion from yesterday /yet/
< 1293642791 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you will be transmoted to builder, and your job will be to rebuild the mouth of the tunnel to the research facility.
< 1293642794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh ... YouTube is one of the default sites in the top-sites-Safari-gallery thing ... but this thing doesn't ship with Flash.
< 1293642798 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, so... any idea how long this download might take? 10 minutes? half an hour? more?
< 1293642810 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40 seconds.
< 1293642813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And indeed clicking on videos says "lol no flash"
< 1293642816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You are way impatient.
< 1293642817 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You shall then be demoted to joiner, and your job will be to fit a new door into the research facility.
< 1293642818 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, ah
< 1293642818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way so.
< 1293642824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Can I be demoted to turd?
< 1293642836 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, just wondered if I should log off and do something else, or just wait a few minutes
< 1293642844 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After you've done all that.
< 1293642847 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc question: can you "emote", like /me but with other people appearing to do the action?
< 1293642862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: um, no.
< 1293642865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that sounds horrible.
< 1293642893 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd have something like (from ) at the end of it
< 1293642991 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Can you make your own messages look like someone else's?
< 1293643005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Mathnerd314 takes a bike (from elliott)
< 1293643008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You monster.
< 1293643013 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is playing OpenTyrian

< 1293643022 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: but with tags
< 1293643023 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awful
< 1293643032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TODO: Get IRC, IM clients; install YouTube5; get Minecraft.
< 1293643043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put up mandatory shrine to Steve Jobs.
< 1293643043 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: prefix it, then.
< 1293643045 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from elliott) * Mathnerd314 takes a bike
< 1293643062 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: new Mac?
< 1293643067 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the iPhone has no backquote symbol, does it?
< 1293643074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: (from elliott) * Mathnerd314 took / a $big (bicycle) / as he `shook
< 1293643080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: This is an iPhone?
< 1293643084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no, it has no backtick indeed.
< 1293643097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I have that command to output ` followed by something, in EgoBot.
< 1293643100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget the name.
< 1293643101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Yes.
< 1293643123 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, so there's a simple, foolproof way of securing WiFi networks against iPhones?
< 1293643134 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!he echo I think it was this...
< 1293643135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: MacBook Air, 2.1 GHz, 4 GiB, 256 GiB SSD, 13" 1440x900.
< 1293643139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Brilliant.
< 1293643141 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo I think it was this...
< 1293643153 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was this...
< 1293643164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Grmbl, in the MORNING, get me out of bed and sdjdiofgj
< 1293643174 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'd do it but half my family have iPhones now and they'd be nasty to me if I did so.
< 1293643187 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: blargh
< 1293643197 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Airs are pointless but pretty
< 1293643226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: correction -- they /used/ to be pointless.
< 1293643236 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um
< 1293643238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now they have respectable specifications, the fastest SSD of the macs, and they have actual fucking ports on the side.
< 1293643242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since late 2010.)
< 1293643254 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would change my mind if i had one :D
< 1293643260 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why do you have this now?
< 1293643271 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so, the answer is: no, irc doesn't have that?
< 1293643278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: I said no right at the start.
< 1293643293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Dunno. I think I'll give up all my material possessions.
< 1293643320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now do I download Minecraft or LimeChat first? OH THE DILEMMA
< 1293643328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH THE DALAI LLAMA
< 1293643364 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean, did you actually ask for one?
< 1293643372 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or go about purchasing one?
< 1293643395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: I would not own this today if not for a swift but damaging onset of temporary insanity.
< 1293643416 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you see it in a shop and become overwhelmed by lust?
< 1293643454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: No. Steve Jobs kidnapped me and did unspeakable things.
< 1293643476 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sell the story to the Sun.
< 1293643481 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll make MILLIONS
< 1293643517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This trackpad is ridiculously huge.
< 1293643526 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *LAMA
< 1293643527 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, doesn't it include the buttons?
< 1293643534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's bigger than my palm.
< 1293643537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The whole thing is a button.
< 1293643539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Intentional.
< 1293643553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's a gigantic glass touchpad that presses down :-P
< 1293643555 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you clearly have a tiny palm.
< 1293643573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously in future the keyboard will be replaced by a GIGANTIC touchpad.
< 1293643576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: I do.
< 1293643579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a rather tiny person.
< 1293643598 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, obviously malnutrition due to the Harrying of the North.
< 1293643627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Indeed.
< 1293643639 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am told that this is the reason I am taller than my entire extended family, although I am suspicious of this.
< 1293643650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHA WHEN I SWIPE WITH THREE FINGERS IT GOES BACKWARDS AND FORWARDS IN THE BROWSER I AM THE MASTER OF MY DOMAIN
< 1293643695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The windows themselves contain some kind of unbreakable glass-like substance, probably glass."
< 1293643728 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which windows?
< 1293643741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Um, context is long and I've already closed the tab.
< 1293643756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Safari thinks this web chat window is titled "Yahoo!".
< 1293643759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure why.
< 1293643831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOO IF I DRAG ANOTHER THING TO THE DOCK IT WILL SHRINK, BUT HOW CAN I VIOLATE STEVE JOBS' WISHES
< 1293643840 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh?
< 1293643871 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my eyes and brain hurt
< 1293643873 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, have you finished your landscape-architect-builder-joinerial duties?
< 1293643877 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from playing tyrian
< 1293643885 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol tyrian
< 1293643904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: No.
< 1293643906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Demote me to rock.
< 1293643922 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, once you've moved your way down the rank!
< 1293643924 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ranks
< 1293643934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to Software Update.
< 1293643935 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should invent a game
< 1293643962 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for ourselves and then introdouce a score table
< 1293643985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1293643987 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, any idea how long this second download might take? Roughly
< 1293644035 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Haskel is there a difference between take 3 [1..20] or just [1..3]   ---> since things are evaluated lazily?
< 1293644144 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, no.
< 1293644149 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There isn't.
< 1293644165 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell take 3 [1..]
< 1293644179 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, I mean - internally Haskel doesn't create the [1..20] list first
< 1293644183 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,2,3]
< 1293644191 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, that's what that example was for.
< 1293644192 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the output is the same
< 1293644202 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1..] is an infinitely long list.
< 1293644207 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh woops
< 1293644210 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION missed the ..

< 1293644218 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the discarded elements aren't calculated at all.
< 1293644218 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed that there wasn't an end
< 1293644222 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok cool
< 1293644226 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, thanks
< 1293644371 0 :elliott!~elliott@91.105.125.212 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293644381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wow, LimeChat's defualt theme is beyond ugly.
< 1293644382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*default
< 1293644387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1293644387 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293644618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: there are programs that use N bytes of memory for all N <--- I mean, any given program is an FSM, just like a lang that asked you to declare memory use in advance would be
< 1293644626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1293644643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1293644644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293644678 0 :elliott!~elliott@91.105.125.212 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293644678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest12014
< 1293644694 0 :Guest12014!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1293644697 0 :Guest12014!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf @ my name
< 1293644726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest12014: I suspect you aren't identified, and got automatically kicked to a different nick as a result
< 1293644728 0 :Guest12014!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1293644784 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest12014, if the owner of your nick chose "secure" you have 30 seconds to provide a password
< 1293644792 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they chose immediate you have no time
< 1293644798 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ns help
< 1293644801 0 :Guest12014!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1293644803 0 :Guest12014!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I set it like that. :)
< 1293644807 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, he is the owner of his own nick.
< 1293644809 0 :Guest12014!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think it's 30 seconds for me.
< 1293644840 0 :Guest12014!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293644929 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : let fizzBuzz xs = [ if mod x 3 && mod x 5 then "fizzbuzz" else if mod x 3 then "fizz" else if mod x 5 then "buzz" else x  | x <- [1..] ]
< 1293644935 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Couldn't match expected type `[Char]' against inferred type `Bool'     -> so I get
< 1293644943 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why I can't mix strings and ints
< 1293644948 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but where did the bool come from ?
< 1293644953 0 :dfj_!~elliott@91.105.125.212 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293644965 0 :dfj_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is elliott "temporarily unavailable"?
< 1293644966 0 :dfj_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My nick.
< 1293645022 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dfj_, /ns recover I think
< 1293645030 0 :dfj_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293645043 0 :dfj_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"invalid command" so, no
< 1293645062 0 :dfj_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's RELEASE
< 1293645064 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or release
< 1293645068 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1293645068 0 :dfj_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293645075 0 :elliott!~elliott@91.105.125.212 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293645077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it works
< 1293645078 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb
< 1293645082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1293645101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest77998
< 1293645104 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : let fizzBuzz xs = [ if mod x 3 && mod x 5 then "fizzbuzz" else if mod x 3 then "fizz" else if mod x 5 then "buzz" else x  | x <- [1..] ]
< 1293645110 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-\
< 1293645117 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not Guest77998
< 1293645128 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what.
< 1293645145 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: erm mod doesn't return a boolean does it
< 1293645156 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh righ
< 1293645175 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed not
< 1293645179 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: i'd do something like
< 1293645198 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait nm
< 1293645199 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :divBy x y = mod x y == 0
< 1293645213 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: I'd call that divides
< 1293645214 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could say
< 1293645221 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x `divides` 3
< 1293645222 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait
< 1293645225 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd want to swap the arguments
< 1293645227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo hi
< 1293645227 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1293645232 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :divisibleBy
< 1293645237 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo !echo hi
< 1293645238 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo hi
< 1293645240 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\
< 1293645345 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: case gcd x 15 of 15 -> "fizzbuzz" ; 3 -> "fizz" ; 5 -> "buzz ; 1 -> show x   >:)
< 1293645364 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: heh nice
< 1293645364 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, for maximum Haskell credit, write divBy point-free.
< 1293645375 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: for maximum haskell credit write EVERYTHING point free
< 1293645376 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, point free ?
< 1293645381 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: you don't want to know.
< 1293645384 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest77998, lie
< 1293645385 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: you don't want to tell him.
< 1293645394 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, explain
< 1293645396 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now
< 1293645403 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Point free is where you write things using the function composition operator and other combinators, and don't name any arguments to the function.
< 1293645428 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, in simple terms, a function f is defined point-free if it's "f =" rather than "f  =".
< 1293645441 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest77998: @pl \x y -> mod x y == 0
< 1293645441 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: flip flip 0 . ((==) .) . mod
< 1293645445 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: So you could say
< 1293645451 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dividesBy = flip flip 0 . ((==) .) . mod
< 1293645452 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead.
< 1293645471 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: Point-free style often improves code concision and readability. But not in this case.
< 1293645474 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that code may not be the best pl-ing of that.
< 1293645475 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also lambdabot is a bit stupid about it.
< 1293645478 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1293645494 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's (==0) . mod n
< 1293645500 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293645503 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense
< 1293645542 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude> let divisbleBy (==0) . mod n
< 1293645542 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::1:28: parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
< 1293645547 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: you forg =
< 1293645549 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*forgot =
< 1293645551 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh woops
< 1293645553 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I think it'd be ((==0).) . mod.
< 1293645606 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude> let divisbleBy = ((==0).) . mod.
< 1293645606 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::1:32: parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
< 1293645612 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell (((==0).) . mod) 2 4
< 1293645614 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :False
< 1293645624 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :False
< 1293645638 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell [1..]
< 1293645640 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell (((==0).) . mod) 4 2
< 1293645661 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True :-}
< 1293645663 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41,42,43,44,45,46,47,48,49,50,51,52,53,54,55,56,57,58,59,60,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,69,70,71,72,73,74,75,76,77,78,79,80,81,82,83,84,85,86,87,88,89,90,91,92,93,94,95,96,97,98,99,100,101,102,103,104,105,106,107,108,109,110,111,112,113,114,115,116,117,118,119,120,121,122,123,124,125,126,127,128,129,130,131,132,133,134,135,136,137,138,139,140,141,142,143,1
< 1293645675 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, !haskell is just GHCi.
< 1293645677 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very funny DCC chat
< 1293645678 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food
< 1293645689 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, I noticed
< 1293645691 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: yeah it DCC chats to give you what it flooded
< 1293645720 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest77998, I could use that to flood its connections - just keep on doing [1..]
< 1293645722 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-\
< 1293645725 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so apparently Steve Jobs needs a picture of me, I swear to god that it wouldn't let me use the computer until I let it take a photo of me
< 1293645738 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: It's too slow for you to be able to flood it, my friend.
< 1293645742 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: And the first line would still go to IRC.
< 1293645748 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sometimes it doesn't. But whatever.
< 1293645763 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either way
< 1293645771 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"\ntest"
< 1293645780 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell "\ntest"
< 1293645782 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"\ntest"
< 1293645804 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: actually !haskell is both ghci and ghc, it tries them in sequence.  this is sometimes confusing when you get an error message (only the last one is given)
< 1293645811 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell putStrLn "\ntest"
< 1293645811 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell "QUOTE MSG NICKSERV DROP"
< 1293645817 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-}
< 1293645829 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway anyone who tried to hold up the bots just gets a ban :-P
< 1293645832 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo hi
< 1293645833 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1293645842 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"!echo hi"
< 1293645849 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest77998, could I try something this once?
< 1293645850 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: also EgoBot sometimes times out :(
< 1293645858 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: sure. just don't do it all night :D
< 1293645868 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest77998, its afternoon - not night :-}
< 1293645886 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: yes, but it'll be night some day!
< 1293645892 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's 18:04, so, about midday
< 1293645900 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any other bots on this channel?
< 1293645906 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm it's 13:00 in new york, maybe i'm on american time
< 1293645907 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo Me!
< 1293645908 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me!
< 1293645911 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: yes, and also fungot
< 1293645911 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest77998: specs and examples of feather btw, that argument is fundamentally unscientific :) thanks
< 1293645913 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo Me!
< 1293645913 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me! Me!
< 1293645915 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :written in befunge, as you probably know
< 1293645919 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest77998, my goal: create a poly command between EgoBot and HackEgo :-}
< 1293645929 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is the more attention-seeking of the two.
< 1293645929 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: output, and with its own set of variables
< 1293645932 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes them keep on looping
< 1293645935 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: fungot filters other bots, BTW
< 1293645935 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest77998: i know quitting high school was about creating a procedure from itself) with a generic object system relies on _static_ types.
< 1293645942 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, do you think we haven't thought of that?
< 1293645944 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ignore
< 1293645945 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo !echo hi
< 1293645946 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo hi
< 1293645955 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '!sh echo hi'
< 1293645957 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo hi
< 1293645975 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "!sh echo '`run happy'"
< 1293645975 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1293645979 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1293645979 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "!sh echo '`run happy'"
< 1293645980 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1293645981 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo pays attention to EgoBot, though.
< 1293645982 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1293645982 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh - back to learn you a haskel
< 1293645986 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "!sh echo '\`run happy'"
< 1293645986 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo '`run happy'
< 1293645992 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293646007 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "!sh echo '\`run happy'"
< 1293646008 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo '`run happy'
< 1293646011 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION curses

< 1293646012 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1293646017 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok EgoBot ignores HackEgo
< 1293646046 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spent about half an hour flying around in Oolite, only to realise that I hadn't actually picked up the passenger I was meant to be ferrying.
< 1293646054 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: :-D
< 1293646060 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    No instance for (Show (t -> [[Char]]))
< 1293646061 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: mutual bot quines is a tradition in this channel, so most bots eventually is set to ignore the others
< 1293646062 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-\
< 1293646075 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*are
< 1293646075 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest77998, the worst part is that I've done this several times before.
< 1293646118 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1293646132 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, heh
< 1293646178 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: you're probably missing a function argument, as that usually implies you are trying to print a function
< 1293646185 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : let fizzBuzz = [ if divisbleBy x 3 && divisbleBy  x 5 then "fizzbuzz" else if divisbleBy x 3 then "fizz" else if divisbleBy  x 5 then "buzz" else "#"  | x <- [1..] ]
< 1293646202 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh wait - I had an extra "xs"
< 1293646207 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks
< 1293646231 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now I don't get *any* fizzbuzz
< 1293646233 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Show is the type class for stuff that is printed
< 1293646246 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :["#","#","fizz","#","buzz","fizz","#","#","fizz","buzz","#","fizz","#","#","fizzbuzz","#","#","fizz","#","buzz"]
< 1293646301 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I lied
< 1293646306 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION missed the 10th one

< 1293646312 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is an idiot

< 1293646315 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*12
< 1293646319 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is still an idiot

< 1293646319 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: don't you mean "else show x"? :)
< 1293646322 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get the numbers in there
< 1293646333 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest77998, no - I wanted the "#" for now
< 1293646336 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :full fizzbuzz program:
< 1293646344 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = mapM_ putStrLn [ if divisbleBy x 3 && divisbleBy  x 5 then "fizzbuzz" else if divisbleBy x 3 then "fizz" else if divisbleBy  x 5 then "buzz" else show x  | x <- [1..] ]
< 1293646350 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compilable with ghc :-)
< 1293646352 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless i fucked up
< 1293646357 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1293646361 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need divisibleBy obviously
< 1293646385 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest77998, I didn't know about show so using "#" stood in until I could figure out what i needed for int->string
< 1293646390 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION redownloads Minecraft. ah sweet addiction...

< 1293646392 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: right :-)
< 1293646425 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regarding minecraft: I was told not to play it while I still plan on doing something productive with my life
< 1293646444 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nested ifs are sort of bad style in haskell.  although they may be awkward to avoid inside a list comprehension...
< 1293646444 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: I concur absolutely ... and now to get to work on this 128x128x128 glass cube lit by lava
< 1293646457 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i decided not to pick on his style until he's more proficient >:)
< 1293646465 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY
< 1293646470 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, when is the "haskellian" way to do things
< 1293646480 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: pattern guards
< 1293646484 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest77998, please pick on my style - I don't want to get into bad habbits
< 1293646491 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googles pattern guards

< 1293646497 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: But you already have -- a life of imperative programming :-)
< 1293646513 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest77998, nothing is wrong with imperative programming for certain types of tasks....
< 1293646534 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Yes there is. :-) (I am a bit of a zealot.)
< 1293646544 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: But hey, I never denied that.
< 1293646561 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Haskell lets you write as much imperative code as you want, that's what "IO" and the do statement is for.
< 1293646573 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't think all of a program should be imperative, which is what most languages make you do :-)
< 1293646682 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: if you just wanted to handle a single x you could use pattern guards as follows: fizzBuzz x | divisbleBy x 3 && divisbleBy  x 5 = "fizzbuzz" | divisbleBy x 3 = "fizz" | divisbleBy  x 5 = "buzz" | otherwise = show x
< 1293646720 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that code looks clearer to me - but I'm not exactly sure of what it's doing
< 1293646741 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it similar to a "switch" in that it looks for the first pattern that matches?
< 1293646745 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: well one-line formatting doesn't exactly help
< 1293646815 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::1:5: parse error on input `|'
< 1293646817 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the parts between | and following = are the guards.  the first guard for a pattern which is True is selected
< 1293646835 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: oh and that's a function definition, so you need to put let in front in ghci
< 1293646840 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did
< 1293646846 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1293646849 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't
< 1293646851 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION slaps self

< 1293647006 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what is "otherwise"
< 1293647016 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it always returns True ?
< 1293647046 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, otherwise is a keyword for the default if no pattern matches.
< 1293647099 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskel cares about whitespace?
< 1293647104 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzbuzz.hs:2:0: parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
< 1293647106 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1293647190 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://notepad.cc/vefina87 -> how could this be formatted nicely - but still be compilable under ghc ?
< 1293647230 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: otherwise = True, it's just defined for convenience to make pattern guards look nice :D
< 1293647254 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, is there some way to print out what functions are defined as ?
< 1293647276 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: yes, Haskell cares about whitespace
< 1293647282 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: you can always use explicit bracing instead though
< 1293647284 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g.
< 1293647294 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = do foo
< 1293647296 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :          bar
< 1293647296 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: i see nothing in that paste that should be a syntax error
< 1293647297 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the same as
< 1293647301 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = do { foo; bar }
< 1293647334 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| actually doesn't need to be lined up, although it looks better if it is.
< 1293647351 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, fizzbuzz.hs:2:0: parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
< 1293647360 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: try a nother new line before "fb x"?
< 1293647363 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*another
< 1293647364 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: oh, you have a missing ) in the first line
< 1293647369 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that shouldn't do anything, but, it's a hunch- aaah
< 1293647370 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind
< 1293647372 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what oerjan said
< 1293647372 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1293647373 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293647397 0 :sdfjsdf!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293647404 0 :sdfjsdf!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293647410 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293647410 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or equivalently, an ( more than necessary
< 1293647416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: try
< 1293647423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :divisibleBy = ((==0) .) mod
< 1293647424 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I got it
< 1293647424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1293647428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :divisibleBy = ((==0) .) . mod
< 1293647429 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I need to define main :-}
< 1293647441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1293647458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: careful -- that's MONAD TERRITORY! (note: this is completely irrelevant and you don't need to think about it at all to use main)
< 1293647483 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :monad ?
< 1293647498 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, explain
< 1293647507 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, that is a whole can of worms you do not want to get into right now.
< 1293647518 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googles

< 1293647520 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get a good grasp of the basics, particularly the type system, first.
< 1293647522 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231049092.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293647522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: It's a thing from category theory. LYAH explains it in some chapters' times.
< 1293647523 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooooo!
< 1293647525 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't do that!
< 1293647534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Seriously, no, people are scared of monads for no reason.
< 1293647540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They think it makes Haskell impossible to use.
< 1293647544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're silly. :p
< 1293647560 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll get endless analogies of how monads = burritos which are far more confusing than the simple definition!
< 1293647569 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, elliott I really don't like to delay learning new things - but I'll go in order of LYAH
< 1293647606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: You can't learn all of Haskell at once, trust me :)
< 1293647658 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now: how could fb be written point freE?
< 1293647675 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, don't bother.
< 1293647676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: oh man, i don't even know
< 1293647677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobod
< 1293647678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y
< 1293647680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would do that :)
< 1293647687 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: ouch, it is rather hard to use pointfree and pattern guards simultaneously
< 1293647706 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Point-free is nice and elegant when you have simple functions which simply chain other functions togetheer.
< 1293647710 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*together
< 1293647710 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, alright
< 1293647715 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: pointfree is best for things that follow a pipelined path without branching
< 1293647719 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = [ fb x | x <- [ 1..20] ]    -> what's wrong with this?
< 1293647729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: main would result in a list
< 1293647732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to result in an IO action
< 1293647739 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, type signatures don't match.
< 1293647744 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fb x :: [Int]
< 1293647744 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: main mus... right
< 1293647748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: try this
< 1293647749 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main :: IO ()
< 1293647752 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1293647757 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: just put a print after the =
< 1293647761 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so - I tried "show" - but that didn't wor
< 1293647761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1293647769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: show :: (Show a) => a -> String
< 1293647770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: but print is
< 1293647775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print :: (Show a) => a -> IO ()
< 1293647778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main is :: IO ()
< 1293647780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read as:
< 1293647784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an IO action giving no result
< 1293647787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also
< 1293647791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getChar :: IO Char
< 1293647792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read as:
< 1293647795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an IO action giving a character
< 1293647797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: see? :)
< 1293647800 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is there some way to get ghci to print those declarations out?
< 1293647808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe it is technically legal for main to be any IO a
< 1293647809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: :t foo
< 1293647811 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie - can I print what a function is defined at as?
< 1293647813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives the type of foo
< 1293647818 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh - cool
< 1293647831 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the a will nearly always be () in practice
< 1293647833 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = print [ fb x | x <- [ 1..20] ] -> perfect
< 1293647855 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: i don't think ghci saves the source anywhere
< 1293647858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: that'll show as
< 1293647862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :["foo","..."]
< 1293647864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: you might want
< 1293647866 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean - if I defined "blah" 1000 lines up there is no way to view the source
< 1293647868 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's directly compiled
< 1293647873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = mapM_ putStrLn [fb x | x <- [1..20]]
< 1293647894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: nah, i don't think that's stored :)
< 1293647899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put good stuff in a file
< 1293647905 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: usually you want to do most definitions in a file with an editor, and just reload it after major changes
< 1293647914 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I do that - just curious
< 1293647925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you can only define types in a file too
< 1293647937 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: also reloading a file into ghci wipes out everything else
< 1293647946 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think
< 1293647954 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/ecJmXtWw --> my first haskel program ;-}
< 1293647982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: now try putting
< 1293647986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fb :: Int -> String
< 1293647989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before fb :p
< 1293648020 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that defines the type of fb to only take an int and return a string
< 1293648045 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :divisbleBy :: Int -> Int           as well ?
< 1293648084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: no
< 1293648092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: it results in a boolean :)
< 1293648099 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1293648108 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION made the inverse mistake before

< 1293648128 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and capital letters indicate types
< 1293648132 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would be Boolean ?
< 1293648212 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it works with the one for fb but not the one for divisibleBy - with Bool as the type   (:t True)
< 1293648218 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: actually capital letters also indicate other things, but type names are one of them
< 1293648258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: no, Bool isn't the type
< 1293648261 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: common hint:  use :t fb to find out what ghci thinks the type should be
< 1293648263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means divisibleBy would either be True or False
< 1293648266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: it's Int -> Bool
< 1293648274 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did that
< 1293648275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that'll show Num which is just confusing right now :)
< 1293648279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: huh. what error?
< 1293648280 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1293648306 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway shouldn't it be Int -> Int -> Bool
< 1293648319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1293648320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course :)
< 1293648322 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes
< 1293648329 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains the "Inferred Type"
< 1293648341 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the "couldn't match" part of the problem
< 1293648342 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool
< 1293648392 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a preferred order for things: should I do type A, type B, function A function B, main      or type A function A type B function B
< 1293648404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: latter
< 1293648416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: types should be right next to the functions; they're very useful documentation :)
< 1293648420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :machine-checked documentation at that
< 1293648434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given the name and type of a function you can usually work out 90% of what it does quickly
< 1293648453 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yep ---> this has been my preferred style for a while
< 1293648469 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :machine checked documentation :-}
< 1293648518 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now
< 1293648524 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that twas fun
< 1293648532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :careful, you're approaching Coq again
< 1293648545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :our machine-checked documentation is HUNDREDS OF LINES LONG PROOFS OF CORRECTNESS!
< 1293648681 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I get the distinct feeling that I'd liike Coq :-}
< 1293648707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: unfortunately it is not very useful for actually writing programs :-)
< 1293648720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: although there are one or two libraries that were extracted (automatically) from formally-proved Coq code
< 1293648726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell libraries that is
< 1293648861 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the difference between head and fst? lists and tuples ?
< 1293648912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: yep
< 1293648926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that fst only works on 2-tuples, even though there's 3, 4, 5 etc. -tuples
< 1293648934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's okay though because nobody uses >=3-tuples :)
< 1293648952 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : let rightTriangles = [ (a,b,c) | c <- [1..10], b <- [1..c], a <- [1..b], a^2 + b^2 == c^2]       -----> they should teach this in math class instead of making kids memorize
< 1293648967 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : :-}
< 1293648978 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...you memorized that?
< 1293648988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall memorising that :-)
< 1293648997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiplication tables on the other hand ...
< 1293648997 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no - we had to memorize the Pythagorean triples
< 1293649002 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1293649006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: sucks to be you :D
< 1293649045 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I personally think that math classes should be more programming and less computation - but meh
< 1293649048 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: in that case you should at least have learned the _real_ formula for listing them all (note:  i don't remember that either)
< 1293649079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: well "maths" should be renamed to arithmetic and then be all but abolished :-)
< 1293649096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm not altogether, you know what i mean
< 1293649190 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293649285 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, so wait, which country are you in?
< 1293649294 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, USA
< 1293649303 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figures.
< 1293649304 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :our education system is junk
< 1293649318 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, where are you?
< 1293649337 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scotland.
< 1293649366 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not terribly good here, although I'm informed that it's better than in England at final-year-of-school level.
< 1293649543 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*) :: (Num a) => a -> a -> a
< 1293649547 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it not Int -> Int ?
< 1293649561 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait - because it takes two ints
< 1293649565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: yes
< 1293649566 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, ah, you are introduced to the wonderful world of typeclasses.
< 1293649569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: no, not that
< 1293649574 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh?
< 1293649574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the two-argument thing here i think
< 1293649579 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, I get typeclasses already
< 1293649581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: yeah, takes two ints, returns one int :)
< 1293649592 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer it was something like Int,Int -> Int
< 1293649592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: btw a -> a -> a is the same as a -> (a -> a)
< 1293649596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and f x y is the same as (f x) y
< 1293649596 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its ambigious
< 1293649602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: that's why it's not Int,Int -> Int
< 1293649604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: because you can say
< 1293649605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo = f x
< 1293649608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then foo y == f x y
< 1293649616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: this is _very_ powerful & useful
< 1293649616 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, or, if you're adventurous, it takes an int and returns a function that takes an int and returns an int.
< 1293649635 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, ah - that makes sense
< 1293649648 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar to my dividesBy function
< 1293649655 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Identical.
< 1293649656 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Edinburgh?
< 1293649663 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, mhm.
< 1293649673 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This all Just Makes Sense
< 1293649675 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, the (==0) bit is just that in a disguise.
< 1293649678 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: and you study computer science on university of edi ?
< 1293649683 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-35-218.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293649686 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, yeah - I figured
< 1293649686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: he's in high school :P
< 1293649686 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, no, but go on.
< 1293649692 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1293649698 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then nothing
< 1293649698 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, why?
< 1293649701 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wishes I did this in High School :-\

< 1293649709 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm close enough though
< 1293649713 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-}
< 1293649721 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought maybe you're studying cs with a friend of mine
< 1293649726 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be awesome
< 1293649729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: mwahaha, i'm three years ahead of you ... well actually i learned haskell a year or two ago so a bit more
< 1293649742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WASTED CHILDHOOD
< 1293649746 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ahead = your a senior ?
< 1293649753 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or your in HS ?
< 1293649754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: ahead in learning
< 1293649754 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahhahahaha
< 1293649755 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ajhahahha
< 1293649756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P
< 1293649757 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah
< 1293649760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell, at least
< 1293649761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1293649766 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how old are you
< 1293649771 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, I think he's in school now.
< 1293649771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: 15
< 1293649778 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah - I'm 19
< 1293649787 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He used to be in a loony bin, but they let him out for not being very crazy.
< 1293649787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: not sure how I'm meant to parse that sentence
< 1293649792 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hates IRC

< 1293649793 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was doing C++ then ;-\
< 1293649797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i approve of this version of history
< 1293649800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: why?
< 1293649813 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, you poor baby!
< 1293649814 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looney bin xD
< 1293649824 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not enough structure
< 1293649835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: i don't want to tag every message i write
< 1293649839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freeform is nice
< 1293649841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more flexible
< 1293649853 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but you can't even when you want too
< 1293649860 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I still yearn for that LaTeX-rendering plugin.
< 1293649860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: i never want to
< 1293649871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: p. sure it exists
< 1293649879 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: thus why you irc and I hate it
< 1293649896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: well don't complain about irc on irc, you'll find little support :P
< 1293649917 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm hoping for something backwards-compatible
< 1293650108 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other problems: you can't correct or annotate
< 1293650123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good
< 1293650133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want mesags to change underneath me
< 1293650134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*messages
< 1293650136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ that is much nicer
< 1293650149 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so I'm assuming you approve of Learn You a Haskell?
< 1293650158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: yes.
< 1293650314 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293650328 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stopped reading it for reasons unclear to me now, which is a pity since I missed out on all of the stuff on functors and monads and stuff.
< 1293650384 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure, you can correct, but it isn't structured; I can't tell what you were correcting
< 1293650399 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*if
< 1293650406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: yes you can, because you (probably) possess a brain
< 1293650494 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: computers were invented so I could choose what to use my brain on
< 1293650509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you chose complaining about IRC
< 1293650530 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, I'm asking for a way to stop using my brain for trivial things on irc
< 1293650572 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to
< 1293650594 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, no, not with the ancient's learning machines
< 1293650619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can even _notice_ the tiny percent of your brain power it takes to figure out what message it's correcting, well ... maybe you don't have much brain power to go around
< 1293650658 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ignoring half a day's conversation and going on with what he was talking about before.
< 1293650704 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, I notice the accumulation. it's a reflex against falling into ruts
< 1293650715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a stupid reflex.
< 1293650804 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not at all. how else do you notice that your life sucks?
< 1293650830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: your life sucks because you're figuring out what messages correct which other messages on IRC?
< 1293650851 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wait, then when?
< 1293650859 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: exactly. so I want a program to do it for me, backwards-compatible with irc.
< 1293650977 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy crap.
< 1293650991 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a wiki of stuff that was too stupid for Uncyclopedia.
< 1293650992 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That.
< 1293650994 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*what
< 1293651022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: So ... uh ...
< 1293651025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I can't think.
< 1293651026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wht
< 1293651028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it contain?
< 1293651037 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I'm going in.
< 1293651055 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I don't come back, fix that damn crater on Mt. Hoover, then make it into a memorial.
< 1293651064 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: give a link first
< 1293651073 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: also, agree with me
< 1293651085 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.illogicopedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
< 1293651096 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to a random page.

< 1293651102 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I saw Illogicopedia before too
< 1293651121 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.illogicopedia.org/wiki/Mr._Bean
< 1293651125 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...my brain.
< 1293651145 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not even hurting, it's just exactly the wrong shape for conscious thought.
< 1293651150 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be an SCP.
< 1293651184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: http://www.illogicopedia.org/wiki/Flub_Nugget
< 1293651242 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just... if Cthulhu's diary was translated into English, I suspect you'd get this.
< 1293651254 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so do you agree with me yet?
< 1293651258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: nope.
< 1293651261 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, please shut up.
< 1293651296 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: that's new! why should I shut up?
< 1293651306 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it should be an SCP.
< 1293651324 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, because you are being intensely irritating. Stop it or shut up.
< 1293651401 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: so why am I irritating?
< 1293651430 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how do you work XChat's /ignore?
< 1293651442 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore is cheating
< 1293651448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: /ignore nick!*@* all
< 1293651457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nick* if you want to catch foo_ as well as foo
< 1293651459 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give me a reason and I'd shut up right away
< 1293651467 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1293651484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what you just did.
< 1293651486 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, let's discuss something worthwhile.
< 1293651530 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waits

< 1293651748 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Why is Applicative dependent on Functor?
< 1293651770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: because they're applicative functors
< 1293651794 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely fmap f = (pure f <*>)
< 1293651832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't have a
< 1293651840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (Applicative f) => Functor f
< 1293651845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's all overlapping
< 1293651849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this is the best way
< 1293651856 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would find it fun if Mr. Bean turned out to be god
< 1293651891 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in some twisted, fucked-up world the deity turned out to have demented so far. he's still all-powerful, just barely ever uses those powers because he pretty much forgot about them.
< 1293651894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently this machine is called Elliott-Hirds-MacBook-Air. Worst hostname ever?
< 1293651894 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, overlapping?
< 1293651900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: yes
< 1293651906 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explain
< 1293651908 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*.
< 1293651919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-bash: git: command not found
< 1293651925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: too lazy, google overlapping instances
< 1293651955 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, of course. You'd do (Functor f) (Applicative f) or something?
< 1293652006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: eh?
< 1293652021 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, maybe I should look it up.
< 1293652350 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: haskell doesn't support using the methods of a subclass to define the methods of a superclass implicitly.  there have been extensions suggested to allow this.
< 1293652374 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so just don't make Applicative a subclass of Functor?
< 1293652387 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: but every Applicative _should_ be a Functor
< 1293652407 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if not for hysterical raisins, every Monad should have been an Applicative
< 1293652419 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes, so have instance (Applicative f) (Functor f) or whatever.
< 1293652430 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where fmap f = (pure f <*>)
< 1293652438 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: and haskell does not support doing that, is what i'm saying
< 1293652443 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, why?
< 1293652462 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I looked up overlapping definitions, but I just ended up confused.
< 1293652469 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/definitions/instances/
< 1293652507 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, food.
< 1293652641 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: the algorithm ghc uses to look up whether a type belongs to a class does not look at other typeclasses it belongs to until _after_ deciding which instance to use, so class Applicative a => Functor a ... would be used for _every_ type a during the lookup phase.
< 1293652671 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you allow overlapping instances.
< 1293652750 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this restriction is in order to ensure that under normal circumstances, adding a new instance never changes the interpretation of already defined ones.
< 1293652843 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(without giving a compiler error for overlapping)
< 1293652943 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may also have something to do with keeping the typeclass resolution decidable
< 1293652991 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also this has been complained about before, but the haskell gurus are ardent about keeping this "open world" property
< 1293653377 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw
< 1293653416 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought about a compiler for a language typed pretty much like javascript
< 1293653462 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'd write type inference engine that would try to avoid any type hinting
< 1293653481 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it  can't guarantee correctness, right?
< 1293653494 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know...... there is big spider on my bed?
< 1293653536 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuck!
< 1293653559 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how big?
< 1293653588 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :approx. 1 metre
< 1293653621 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::F
< 1293653655 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, "F" is incorrect. The only choices are "A", "B", "C", "D".
< 1293653667 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is multiple choice question, isn't it?)
< 1293653718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: type hinting?
< 1293653722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean type signatures?
< 1293653728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: what do you mean re - guarantee correctness
< 1293653806 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: the technical theorem goes something like "full type inference in the presence of subtyping is undecidable"
< 1293653831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed, but if nooga's ok with hindley-milner ...
< 1293653852 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well javascript has object orientation
< 1293653882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, but javascript also has dynamic typing
< 1293653888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so clearly nooga is straying slightly :)
< 1293653894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw javascript has no inheritance
< 1293653900 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1293653904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's prototype-based, which is even /more/ of a headache
< 1293653912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, you can inherit things ... but you can also do hideous things too
< 1293653928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and it's hard to distinguish types (prototype objects) from values (their clones)
< 1293654056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, apple doesn't let you register as a developer without specifying a company/organisation
< 1293654062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott from N/A corp here
< 1293654076 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Javascript is better program language than PHP in general (ignoring their common uses)
< 1293654115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which Apple platforms do you develop with? Select all that apply.
< 1293654115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : iOS
< 1293654115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Mac OS X
< 1293654117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Safari
< 1293654121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how one "develops for Safari"

< 1293654154 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Hu Jintao is a much nicer politician than Stalin in general (ignoring their common policies)
< 1293654172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which web technologies do you work with? Select all that apply.
< 1293654172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : C# CSS 3 HTML 5 Internet Plug-ins Java JavaScript/AJAX/Ruby/Rails Perl/PHP/Python Other
< 1293654179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"JavaScript/AJAX/Ruby/Rails"
< 1293654183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear to god that is a single checkbox.
< 1293654213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there's an opinion in your message, but i can't find it
< 1293654238 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that comparing crap and horrible crap doesn't say much
< 1293654251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i never thought of you as a guy with opinions :D
< 1293654259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[By checking this box I confirm that I have read and agree to be bound by the Agreement above. I also confirm that I am of the legal age of majority in the jurisdiction in which I reside (at least 18 years of age in many countries).]]
< 1293654264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh snap, being under 18 i can check this without consequence
< 1293654271 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no no it's not an opinion, it's a meta-opinion
< 1293654288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well yes, but you just demonstrated anti-JS and anti-PHP sentiment :)
< 1293654289 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i never m *hit by time-traveling anvil*
< 1293654302 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: doesn't quite work that way
< 1293654306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw wouldn't mao have been more obvious
< 1293654321 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well i considered it
< 1293654321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: shh! I'm relying on being considered too stupid to have understood what I'm doing
< 1293654330 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh
< 1293654375 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :js is quite good
< 1293654386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :js is good apart from 90% of it which is horrible
< 1293654389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 10% is Scheme
< 1293654393 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1293654397 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like this 10%
< 1293654403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: yes, unfortunately it's useless
< 1293654409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like the object model and the DOM exist outside it
< 1293654413 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rainwave!
< 1293654415 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but look at the design of jQuery!
< 1293654416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: also the syntax is sub-optimal for a Scheme.
< 1293654455 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goddamit CBC
< 1293654457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i'm using a system COMPILED ENTIRELY WITH CLANG APART FROM THE KERNEL
< 1293654460 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop using the word 'troll' right
< 1293654460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leading f'n edge
< 1293654461 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's confusing
< 1293654466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1293654467 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nice
< 1293654468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1293654475 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 'troll' as in fishing
< 1293654475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yeah, they call it OS X :trollface:
< 1293654480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Problem?
< 1293654487 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;D
< 1293654498 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "The site trolls for information"
< 1293654501 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put elliott on /b/
< 1293654505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what xD
< 1293654517 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it is correct usage of the word
< 1293654518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: i'm an innocent flower who has never seen /b/ before.
< 1293654520 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watch trolls being trolled
< 1293654521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you better believe it
< 1293654523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I know
< 1293654524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: but lol
< 1293654536 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is so believable
< 1293654556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 hours until xcode downloads
< 1293654559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i might plug into ethernet
< 1293654568 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how he gets close to you and *stabs* you
< 1293654576 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe that there are some highly intelligent /b/tards out there that make idiots of themselves on /b/ just for pure fun
< 1293654593 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is true
< 1293654622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: that's all of them.
< 1293654631 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah
< 1293654638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. ok. it used to be all of them :)
< 1293654647 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used...
< 1293654673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: in the past.
< 1293654765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay it's going faster now
< 1293655439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.haskell.cafe/84865
< 1293655458 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, mcmap somehow got desynced while building with torches near max alt.
< 1293655488 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it "works" but the are has random "garbage"
< 1293655492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I blame Notch.
< 1293655500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is it time for Peter Landin Facts?
< 1293655510 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah
< 1293655571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/essc7/ok_i_am_a_bit_freaked_out/
< 1293655588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notch should make that kind of stuff generate naturally.
< 1293655606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidence of people being there before, occasional hidden deposits of useful things... man-made objects...
< 1293655671 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu
< 1293655694 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, quite, might want it as an option though to avoid pissing of users who want to feel that they are the first to walk there
< 1293655705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: everything's an option :P
< 1293655706 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I'm ok with either
< 1293655756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/UGw2n.gif
< 1293655761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit what limechat
< 1293655766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you inlining images
< 1293655769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad limechat
< 1293655771 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that think you linked: maybe F4 "bug"?
< 1293655772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody link to goatse
< 1293655776 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is an awesome MC idea.
< 1293655785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: apparently, it's chunks from old worlds being loaded
< 1293655792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except if he didn't build a nether portal ... well ...
< 1293655795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows anyway
< 1293655803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed the image inlining
< 1293655806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can all link to goatse now
< 1293655807 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, remember when pressing f4 gave you nether?
< 1293655810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes
< 1293655820 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't.

< 1293655823 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe he did that by mistake, that is what I meant
< 1293655831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: doubt it. since the boats etc
< 1293655833 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  nobody link to goatse   elliott, that is an awesome MC idea.
< 1293655836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and minecarts and chests
< 1293655841 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm okay
< 1293655852 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then weird bug or a hoax?
< 1293655853 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swatpans oerjan --==\#/

< 1293655902 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo hi
< 1293655903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why they didn't include XCode on the reinstall drive that comes with the Air.
< 1293655903 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the steps for roof thing is quite nice when you can use it
< 1293655910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's the tiniest USB drive I have /ever/ seen.)
< 1293655928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By tiny I mean *TINY*:
< 1293655928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://news.cnet.com/i/tim/2010/10/20/DSC_0072_610x438.JPG
< 1293655929 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so it doesn't have the developer cd?
< 1293655933 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1293655933 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :256)  nobody link to goatse   elliott, that is an awesome MC idea.
< 1293655942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 256
< 1293655943 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :256)  nobody link to goatse   elliott, that is an awesome MC idea.
< 1293655943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The developer CD == the install DVD. Or maybe it still comes on 2, so the second DVD.
< 1293655952 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how thick is it drive?
< 1293655953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But, eh, you can download it for free. All 3 gigabytes of it.
< 1293655961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's thinner than the USB port.
< 1293655968 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that sounds... unreliable?
< 1293655973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not really.
< 1293655978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit hard to push in though.
< 1293655995 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I wouldn't dare push it
< 1293656004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I had to wriggle it :-P
< 1293656015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, this thing is *crazy* thin.
< 1293656024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's exactly as high as a USB port ... in the highest place.
< 1293656041 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you need a border around the port, or it wouldn't be a port
< 1293656044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, OK, there is an imperceptible bit of non-USB-port aluminium above and below the USB ports. But still.)
< 1293656059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am fairly sure it's actually powered by gnomes.
< 1293656066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flat, two-dimensional gnomes.
< 1293656067 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, unibody design I presume?
< 1293656071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes.
< 1293656077 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[But that is nuts.]] — someone on that Reddit thread who clearly has no insight into the twisted mind of Notch.
< 1293656089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think the connections to other parts would make it 10x thicker :-P
< 1293656102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It actually has screw holes to open up the bottom though.
< 1293656112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it would be impossible to do anything but replace the battery.
< 1293656125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The SSD isn't soldered on (the RAM is though), but it's chips without any enclosure, slotted into the motherboard.
< 1293656125 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what was the nature of the madness that lead you to buy this laptop?
< 1293656137 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, soldered on ram? yeargh
< 1293656137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't think you can buy the chips separately.
< 1293656158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: To be fair, at least it was necessary in this case rather than being a "fuck you customers thing".
< 1293656165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, necessary given the crazy design goals.
< 1293656170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: God knows.
< 1293656205 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, please run me through the events that lead to it coming into your possession.
< 1293656212 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is the wifi good?
< 1293656219 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and does it have bluetooth?
< 1293656228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. Well, I haven't tried any LAN stuff yet, but the WiFi is very reliable so far.
< 1293656230 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders doing an Oolite Let's Play.

< 1293656231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Bluetooth.
< 1293656243 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293656273 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, keyboard backlit?
< 1293656277 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, FWIW, new Minecraft Experiment update.
< 1293656278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: What's this. Oh. That's thin. Too bad the specs are -- it has a decent processor? Better GPU? 4 gigs of RAM? ...High resolution display? No. No. I won't do it. I won't be tem- HOW thin? DAMN YOU, STEVE JOBS, YOU CRAZY MAN! I CANNOT RESIST!
< 1293656287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No. That is the one thing it does not have :P
< 1293656294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The previous model did IIRC, presumably it took up TOO MUCH ROOM.)
< 1293656302 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about a lamp above it?
< 1293656303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THANKFULLY I can touch type.
< 1293656307 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as in, above the screen
< 1293656308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No. I can touch type.
< 1293656312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well.
< 1293656317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You could use the camera-is-on LED :-P
< 1293656322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just the light from the screen.
< 1293656323 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1293656336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It *is* LED, so it runs the full gamut from black to lightbulb.
< 1293656341 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about flash reader?
< 1293656350 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it will do CF
< 1293656356 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but many some of the smaller ones?
< 1293656368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It has an SD card reader, at least. I don't know if it's a fancy combo thing.
< 1293656379 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293656380 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cubeengine.com/ this + crafting system + procedural landscape + MMO server > minecraft
< 1293656401 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and how many USB ports was it?
< 1293656405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: As a fan of Wouter (like everyone here!): shut up.
< 1293656411 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouter?
< 1293656418 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouter?
< 1293656419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Inventor of Aardappel, and also Saurbraten.
< 1293656428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's the guy with 3498573495349857393945 languages.
< 1293656431 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cube engine is pure awesomness
< 1293656432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also FALSE.
< 1293656433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course.
< 1293656439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: A whole two USB ports.
< 1293656439 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recognise these things, but I know nothing about them. Except FALSE.
< 1293656452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: http://strlen.com/aardappel-language
< 1293656454 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm... how is cooling?
< 1293656463 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and did you try dwarf fortress?
< 1293656466 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, looking at it now.
< 1293656486 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, Dwarf Fortress is pretty boring, to be honest.
< 1293656492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's cool enough that I'm using it on my lap with no discomfort at all, and it only got lukewarm when I played Minecraft on maximum settings. (But the fan made a bit of noise.)
< 1293656497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't tried Dwarf Fortress yet.
< 1293656511 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's no obvious Linux version.
< 1293656516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Yes there is.
< 1293656529 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Obvious.*
< 1293656529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SDL: Windows | Mirror 1 | Mirror 2 | Mirror 3 | Windows (No Music) | Linux | Mac (Intel)
< 1293656531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note "Linux".
< 1293656539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's on the same line as the Windows download.
< 1293656539 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE WASN'T WHEN I LOOKED
< 1293656546 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to play Dwarf Fortress once. I don't like the game, also there is many things I cannot figure out how to change (if it can be changed), and it is slow. In general, I do not like this game.
< 1293656557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah I technically don't remember that either :P
< 1293656561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It's slow because your computer is slow.
< 1293656581 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal, Dwarf Fortress is pretty boring, to be honest. <-- that is not important here. The important bit is that it has high system requirements
< 1293656613 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, yes, my computer is one of the things that makes it slow.
< 1293656617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: This thing is better than my iMac, let's put it that way. :p
< 1293656640 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if you ran windows I would suggest crysis
< 1293656648 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I tried playing it, I was astounded at the world generation, then confused to hell by the interface once gameplay actually started, then bored to hell and driven off by the prospect of (gasp!) micromanagement.
< 1293656658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crysis is only slow if you max the settings out, I gather :-P
< 1293656681 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, I never tried it.
< 1293656691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it amuses me that, four years after it was released, getting it to run at high FPS on maximum settings is still reserved for the absolute most expensive cards.
< 1293656701 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1293656719 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Play different game, such as the games I make you can watch. Or, please make up your own games (or game ideas)!
< 1293656727 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....
< 1293656739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: My game idea is to make a game that is Dwarf Fortress.
< 1293656778 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, crysis is mainly GPU heavy right? So combine crysis 3D engine with dwarf fortress
< 1293656778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have to admit that swiping four fingers downwards to activate Expose makes me feel like a bit of an uncivilised savage.
< 1293656787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I'm swatting something with my paw.
< 1293656803 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Can you write a FOSS game working like Dwarf Fortress and with improvements?
< 1293656804 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, didn't they use to put that in F?
< 1293656813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Probably not :-P
< 1293656833 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if I suggested something like that, I would get a very different answer :P
< 1293656846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They still do, but since over a third of the laptop's bottom is dedicated to a gigantic slab of clickable glass, I'm gonna use the shit out of it.
< 1293656865 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hope it doesn't break
< 1293656878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What, the glass?
< 1293656890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like glassy glass, it's just glass-coated. :p
< 1293656891 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1293656895 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293656900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It feels like very smooth plastic, basically.
< 1293656902 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/irc_log/ADMIN/1293597986
< 1293656914 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about fingerprints
< 1293656938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't see any. It's not like the iPhone's screen.
< 1293656954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: I don't have any idea what it's actually made of, I just know it's coated with glass.
< 1293656973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's nice, though; most trackpads feel really small to me.
< 1293656977 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey theoretically one could make a game that would keep using more and more resources the more computing power you throw at it, until it successfully simulates a universe in perfect detail
< 1293656989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed! get on it
< 1293657013 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theoretically, i am
< 1293657025 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what the eigenratio of the universe is.

< 1293657038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: er howso :D
< 1293657047 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, some sort of fractal might be a good way to do it
< 1293657059 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's a very dubious theory
< 1293657062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Matter is already fractal.
< 1293657069 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed.
< 1293657073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Matter is made out of matter is made out of matter is made out of quarks is ... oh, wait, never mind.
< 1293657086 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fractal up to a point
< 1293657086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Is made out of tiny vibrating strings is made out of raw hate for Notch!)
< 1293657089 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, matter is just a general term.
< 1293657110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Well, yes, but the way I see oerjan's idea, you'd go from simulating entire macroscopic objects to breaking them down slightly, to doing atoms,
< 1293657114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to simulating THE VERY FABRIC OF MATTER.
< 1293657126 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but considering something like a tree. They have a fractal nature. So level of detail comes more or less "naturally" there
< 1293657129 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually the virtual particle creation and destruction makes things fractal even at the elementary particle level, i believe.
< 1293657142 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more like Inductive matter := |  |  | .
< 1293657144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah well
< 1293657147 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invent the game called "Sandwich - The Card Game" and "Professional Octopus of the World" (these names are just generated by randomly)
< 1293657148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your face is fractal ugly
< 1293657152 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, how?
< 1293657171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  Invent the game called "Sandwich - The Card Game" and "Professional Octopus of the World" (these names are just generated by randomly)
< 1293657172 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :257)  Invent the game called "Sandwich - The Card Game" and "Professional Octopus of the World" (these names are just generated by randomly)
< 1293657225 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293657415 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1293657432 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: basically every elementary particle is surrounded by an infinite cloud of virtual ones, which only exist for tiny moments before being destroyed again.  this causes the math to blow up and they have to use a trick called renormalization to calculate how the things we actually observe (which consist of "real" particle + "virtual" cloud) behave
< 1293657439 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't you please try to play CGA Collection game, one of these games might be good game to you???
< 1293657453 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, still don't see the fractalness.
< 1293657469 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no self-similarity, just loads of particles on the same scale.
< 1293657489 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: these virtual particles, for the moment they exist, have their own virtual cloud
< 1293657503 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1293657531 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you're still selecting from a finite range of particles with constant size.
< 1293657546 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't zoom in on an electron and see lots of little electrons.
< 1293657554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the particles themselves have size _zero_ in the theory
< 1293657584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is this theory widely-accepted? :P
< 1293657589 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes.
< 1293657593 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they have mass, though. And mass is also energy.
< 1293657598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, right
< 1293657602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant the -- oh forget it
< 1293657606 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's part of the accepted corpus of QM.
< 1293657606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am terrible at explaining things
< 1293657607 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they can have differing amounts of energy.  in fact a virtual particle can have higher energy the shorter they live.  (heisenberg uncertainty)
< 1293657629 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, which leads neatly onto my awesome generator idea.
< 1293657648 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which converts mass directly to energy without any of that tedious mucking about with antimatter.
< 1293657685 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well mass is usually fixed for each particle type afaik.  it's the extra which varies, i think.  actually i'm not very sure about those details
< 1293657702 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the extra energy
< 1293657711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: oh?
< 1293657760 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Hawking generator?
< 1293657770 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I explained it yesterday when you were here?
< 1293657774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right.
< 1293657777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't that involve antimatter?
< 1293657808 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I applaud 3GPP for making IMS IPv6-only... :-)
< 1293657819 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, hawking generator doesn't involve antimatter.
< 1293657878 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no.
< 1293657894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, right.
< 1293657894 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although you could use it to convert antimatter into energy as well.
< 1293657900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: How is it *your* idea again? :-)
< 1293657912 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing about black holes: Is baryon number property of black holes or do black holes violate conservation of baryon number?
< 1293657923 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: it _does_ remain to be seen if a radiating black hole really destroys all quantum numbers other than charge and rotation, as predicted.  hm if not would that prevent the hole from disappearing?
< 1293657954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : who cares, black holes don't exist anyway
< 1293657954 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mass, charge and rotation
< 1293657956 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hmm?
< 1293657959 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same for lepton numbers (3 of them).
< 1293657967 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, please tell me cpressey doesn't really think that.
< 1293657983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Well, he doesn't actively go around saying black holes don't exist but he isn't convinced of their existence.
< 1293657993 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sighs.

< 1293658006 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why... just, why?
< 1293658021 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, B-L... That being violated would be even bigger deal than baryon/lepton number violations...
< 1293658033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Hey now, I distinctly recall some pop sci article saying SCIENTISTS were considering that they might not exist ;)
< 1293658069 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: if black holes preserve baryon number, say, then they would have to radiate matter rather than antimatter.  and that would mean they couldn't radiate just mostly photons... someone's probably thought about this
< 1293658091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd grep the logs for cpressey's opinions on black holes, but I'd need hg to check out Gregor's log repository, and to get hg I need Homebrew, and to use Homebrew I need XCode which is downloading.
< 1293658102 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: oh i didn't notice you asking the same question
< 1293658104 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, ahhh.
< 1293658113 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the matter/antimatter distinction in hawking radiation doesn't matter anyway before they reach enough temperature to start radiating electrons...
< 1293658115 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, awww.
< 1293658121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: ?
< 1293658124 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lawlfail
< 1293658134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: SHUT UP, IT HAS A GIGANTIC GLASS TRACKPAD.
< 1293658142 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, getting the codu repository from hg.
< 1293658158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Why did you go wait, ahhh.
< 1293658180 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And being able to reach 511keV thermally requires _quite_ high temperature.
< 1293658188 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because I've wanted that forever.
< 1293658211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Don't post the link, Gregor's method of conserving bandwidth appears to be to not publicise it at all and let people find it themselves :P
< 1293658225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly it is just a one-time download of about 70 megs.
< 1293658226 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much :P
< 1293658229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe nearing 100 by now.
< 1293658256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :33 minutes remaining for XCode ...
< 1293658280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I can tell Homebrew to use clang by default.
< 1293658317 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: you could imagine that black holes would stop radiating at some point because they couldn't satisfy the necessary quantum numbers...
< 1293658391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: http://i.imgur.com/H9nHB.png OUR GLASS HATS ARE ... WAIT FOR IT ... OLD-HAT
< 1293658403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG
< 1293658404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: http://i.imgur.com/eUq9d.png
< 1293658406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://i.imgur.com/eUq9d.png
< 1293658414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE NEED A CACTUS KIT THIS _VERY SECOND_
< 1293658421 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, is this GENERAL?
< 1293658434 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :turds at http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page | turds at voxelperfect.net have expired | historical turds at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D or via hg at http://codu.org/projects/esotericlogs/hg/
< 1293658439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Well ... I think it has to be a _block_.
< 1293658439 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DUN DUN DUNNNNNNNN
< 1293658444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That ... is really unwise :P
< 1293658444 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw is anyone mirroring the actual wiki?  this dns business is starting to make me nervous
< 1293658446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also you forgot https.
< 1293658447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes.
< 1293658450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor has it in hg.
< 1293658456 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, good
< 1293658456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other people have backups
< 1293658473 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Works via both http and https
< 1293658475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Gregor would only host the wiki if he could make it Hackiki :D
< 1293658480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BUT HOW CAN I SECURE MY TRANSMUTION
< 1293658489 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: By putting an 's' on it :P
< 1293658495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: YOU ARE FASCIST
< 1293658505 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no no s is for socialist
< 1293658526 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meaning the lack of 's' is for fascism.
< 1293658527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: [[This works with any block on SMP. Not items though. I gave myself a lightstone head.]]
< 1293658570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6771672/minecraft/armorbug/stairs.png
< 1293658576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6771672/minecraft/armorbug/fence.png
< 1293658583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6771672/minecraft/armorbug/halfblock.png
< 1293658596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6771672/minecraft/armorbug/portal.png APPARENTLY THIS IS ANIMATED OMG OMG OMG WANT
< 1293658597 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, OK, so what should I search for in the logs to see cpressey being nuts?
< 1293658601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WANT A SWIRLY HEAD
< 1293658612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Um, grep -i 'cpressey>.*black'
< 1293658615 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :P
< 1293658620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-ri 'cpressey>.*black' .
< 1293658623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well.
< 1293658627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-i 'cpressey>.*black' 10*
< 1293658651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: http://i.imgur.com/rNfZR.png
< 1293658653 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you should make esolang wiki have both MediaWiki and Hackiki, and allow some limited interaction between them.
< 1293658672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I put diamond ore on my head, many Lolz ensued" "Camp near where people are digging and hide your lower half, then when they try to mine the diamond the ore runs away :D"
< 1293658709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: apparently you can get a torch stuck to your head
< 1293658711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a lavaface
< 1293658753 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elementaly, my dear elliott
< 1293658760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: racist!
< 1293658761 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+l
< 1293658775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its funny cuz of asians and r and l
< 1293658784 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey i have nothing against fire elementals
< 1293658804 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, there?
< 1293658863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i suddenly envision people getting in trouble for collecting shoe laces ("Oh, I'm a lacist!")
< 1293658881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD
< 1293658884 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, if so: wrt that bug. What I did for cryptsetup-luks on ubuntu (which also uses device-mapper in the end, like lvm), was to set up disk using system rescue cd. Then I booted ubuntu live cd, mounted stuff, and installed on there
< 1293658916 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, and before I rebooted I made sure the initramfs had cryptsetup of course
< 1293658977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CALL APOGEE SAY "AARDWOLF"
< 1293658997 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION now envisions _chinese_ people getting in trouble for collecting shoe laces

< 1293659123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a confession to make
< 1293659127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am addicted to this magnetic power cord
< 1293659128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because
< 1293659128 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https? no httpy? :-)
< 1293659135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually snaps into the computer
< 1293659137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you hold it close enough
< 1293659157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari_antrcomp: Httpy? You mean http://www.eros-os.org/pipermail/e-lang/2000-May/003341.html? :p
< 1293659161 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GAWD I hate the magnetic power cord attachment.
< 1293659169 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only comes out when I don't want it to.
< 1293659190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The point is that it always comes out rather than having your laptop fall off the table, dude :P
< 1293659208 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never had this mystical laptop-falling-off-the-table experience.
< 1293659208 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the new ones are stupid iirc. Since the cable doesn't attach straight out
< 1293659219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Define "attach straight out".
< 1293659224 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I do have a never-ending sequence of plug-coming-out-of-laptop-for-no-reason.
< 1293659231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You are not clumsy. I am clumsy.
< 1293659252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly it's come out once or twice without me wanting it today :P
< 1293659372 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back when I still used the family MacBook the power cord broke at the attachment.
< 1293659390 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An entirely new cord was needed, at considerable expense.
< 1293659425 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, the one with the bad guy who enters minds
< 1293659426 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ones
< 1293659435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Was that a magsafe one or an older one?
< 1293659443 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, magsafe.
< 1293659458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAGNETS ARE EXPENSIVE
< 1293659504 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not even high-end magnets.
< 1293659504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: IIRC the original MagSafe was really badly designed.
< 1293659516 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4ea4d.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293659516 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you don't need to tell me tha.
< 1293659518 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that
< 1293659529 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It *melted* in the end.
< 1293659579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Yeah... Apple like to rush things.
< 1293659594 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And overcharge for replacements.
< 1293659613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: How much did the cord cost?
< 1293659631 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :£60 or so IIRC.
< 1293659644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Niiiiiiiiiiice.
< 1293659647 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a transformer, some wires and a magnet.
< 1293659656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Well, Apple do like to sell AppleCare. :-P
< 1293659667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(AppleCare? No AppleDon't.)
< 1293659669 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seriously don't understand people who think Apple gives you value for money.
< 1293659745 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the removal of mana burn in Magic: the Gathering cards
< 1293659764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Apple computers are, in fact, well-priced; the components are high quality. It's just that most people don't really care how well-shaped their aluminium computer is.
< 1293659770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replacements are a complete ripoff, of course.
< 1293659777 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they do offer an easy to use alternative to Windows. Expensive, but still
< 1293659794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: (For instance, the new iMacs are ridiculously cheap. Let's put it this way: The 27" models are as expensive as the _display they use_ would be by itself.)
< 1293659796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IPS.)
< 1293659814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ridiculously cheap in relative terms of course ... they still cost a bundle.
< 1293659884 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what's wrong with Racket?
< 1293659910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely nothin' (well, some things, but not much).
< 1293660013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293660035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP ais523
< 1293660050 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree that mana burn should've been kept, in general the game's been dumbed down too much IMO
< 1293660101 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what's the point either way? Are there a lot of things that cause there to be more than one mana put into the pool?
< 1293660109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG.
< 1293660109 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1293660111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Epiphany.
< 1293660123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: We must make Dwarf Fortress: The Tabletop RPG.
< 1293660128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All computation done by humans.
< 1293660134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be THE WORST>
< 1293660135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*WORST.
< 1293660151 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, on that topic http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Random_number_generator
< 1293660160 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A detailed explanation of Elite's RNG.
< 1293660160 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes I think that is correct. Mana burn should kept, and a lot of things have been made badly.
< 1293660172 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And galaxy-production mechanisms.
< 1293660182 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also think it has been dumbed down too much
< 1293660194 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, I think they should've kept interrupts :-P
< 1293660195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: "On that topic"? :P
< 1293660206 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, procedural generation!
< 1293660220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Installing this software requires 9.53 GB of space."
< 1293660227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's in decimal gigabytes. But still.
< 1293660231 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No, I like how the stack works actually. But there are some rules I never liked, such as the rule that a Aura that is also a creature is destroyed.
< 1293660256 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just liked that interrupts could be played during damage prevention but instants couldn't
< 1293660287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Is Oolite actually fun?
< 1293660287 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowadays you can block a creature, have it deal damage, and then return it to your hand with Boomerang for example; in the past I don't think you could
< 1293660293 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have the blocker deal damage, I mean
< 1293660299 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, depends.
< 1293660301 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also don't really like the way that planeswalkers rules work
< 1293660304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: On?
< 1293660329 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty boring slog at the start, but it gets better once you have the cash to pay for gadgets and blow things up.
< 1293660330 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well the planeswalker thing is actually a complication so I'm kind of fine with that in terms of "dumbing things down", although mostly they seem overpowered to me
< 1293660359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is unnerving for disk activity to be happening with no audial indication.
< 1293660405 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written rules for a "playercard" which is somewhat similar to a planeswalker, but it acts as another player. It doesn't get turns normally, but some spells can give it extra turns if it is a card that can give players extra turns.
< 1293660408 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend a RAID-1 array of a few dozen 10000 RPM disks, it should help with that
< 1293660437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I wonder if this thing is meant to get hot when installing software.
< 1293660452 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, OTOH, you can always hack your save files to give yourself 10000000 credits and then buy tonnes of stuff, then install some OXPs and go nuts.
< 1293660453 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Playercards are not allowed to concede, their life total is equal to the number of their loyalty counters, and they are discarded if they win or lose the game (and the game continues).
< 1293660460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on fan! You can do it!
< 1293660465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM
< 1293660489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOON I WILL BE INFERTILE
< 1293660492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU MUST HELP ME OUT, FAN
< 1293660497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SAVE MY CHILDREN
< 1293660555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear god, it's gone into jet engine mode.
< 1293660559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm worried.
< 1293660643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Vorpal: Recommendation seen on /r/minecraft: -Xincgc.
< 1293660648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incremental GC.
< 1293660667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Oh, time for irony.
< 1293660669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: [[Problem is, Notch said gold is intentionally useless — to quote him, "it's kind of a political statement". He was interested in the way gold is useless in the real world, but still has such a high value, and wanted to replicate that in Minecraft.]]
< 1293660677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: And yet diamond is the most useful ore in the game.
< 1293660688 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And gold is certainly not useless in the real world
< 1293660692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minecraft -- sponsored by De BEers.
< 1293660693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Beers.
< 1293660694 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See if you can figure out what any of these things do in Magic: the Gathering cards :
< 1293660702 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* A card with the type "Instant Land".
< 1293660709 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, diamond is very useful IRL.
< 1293660719 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As is gold, but not as obviously.)
< 1293660726 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* A creature with "Phasing. When ~ comes into play, it becomes an Instant in addition to its other types."
< 1293660733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Yes. But diamond is also not NEARLY as scarce as its price suggests.
< 1293660739 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An instant that granted mana makes more sense to me than "instant land"
< 1293660749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet in Minecraft diamond is very rare and very useful, and Notch ... mocks gold for being useless?
< 1293660751 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That is not what I am asking.
< 1293660781 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* A card with "Tribal" as its only type.
< 1293660791 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so wait, the rumours about De Beers are true?
< 1293660833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: The "rumours"?
< 1293660840 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I am asking what you would think would happen if a card's type somehow was "Instant Land", not what would make more sense and that kind of stuff.
< 1293660847 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I was told them I was told they were rumours.
< 1293660866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: If you mean the fact that diamond's supply is very carefully controlled to keep it expensive and rare-seeming, then I don't know if I'd call them rumours so much as definite facts.
< 1293660886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember that De Beers was a monopoly for god knows how long.
< 1293660892 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that was it.
< 1293660899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[De Beers is well known for its monopolistic practices throughout the 20th century, whereby it used its dominant position to manipulate the international diamond market.[2][16] The company used several methods to exercise this control over the market: Firstly, it convinced independent producers to join its single channel monopoly, it flooded the market with diamonds similar to those of producers who refused to join the cartel, and la
< 1293660899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stly, it purchased and stockpiled diamonds produced by other manufacturers in order to control prices through supply.[17] However, the De Beers model changed in 2000,[17] due to factors such as the decision by producers in Russia, Canada and Australia, to distribute diamonds outside of the De Beers channel, thus effectively ending the monopoly.[2][16]]]
< 1293660906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: But the effects -- diamond's ludicrous price -- remain.
< 1293660955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[“I plan on adding some kind of overarching narrative to the game to drive the player forward and provide a sense of direction, and add many more new features, like monster towns and alchemy.”]] -Notch
< 1293660995 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the ruins idea is interesting.
< 1293661030 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially if there were old mines.
< 1293661096 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, you could make it psychological horror or something!
< 1293661110 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MC is a very horrific setting in the first place.
< 1293661123 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least SSP is.
< 1293661205 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a price people are willing to pay though
< 1293661251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes ... because of De Beers marketing them :)
< 1293661294 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the price will likely drop though
< 1293661543 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spam subject: "stop smoking shark"
< 1293661566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll smoke as much shark as I want.
< 1293661699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#machomebrew is INSUFFICIENTLY ACTIVE.
< 1293661747 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1293661798 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me that that means something other than what I think it means
< 1293661808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What do you think it means?
< 1293661833 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a way to get binaries not signed by Apple onto Macs. Apple isn't THAT psychotic, is it?
< 1293661841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes they are!
< 1293661902 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, programming on the Mac is *horrible*.
< 1293661914 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, drained another two lines today in the cube. You haven't drained any today. No offence meant. Just a fact.
< 1293661926 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to get *every binary* signed by Apple.
< 1293661929 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, horrible as in, requires assistance from Apple, or horrible as in, .... WTF
< 1293661939 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, you're joking
< 1293661940 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recompile? Need new signature.
< 1293661943 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to be joking
< 1293661947 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1293661962 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293661964 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, even the interpreted languages are restricted.
< 1293662000 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have their own versions of Python and Perl which perform signature checks, and any other interpreters are denied permission.
< 1293662011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's not just a fact, you're complaining. What would you prefer I do? Make packages magically install faster so I can compile mcmap?
< 1293662017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shall I get out my magic wand?
< 1293662023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Also Ruby!
< 1293662028 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, I think you're trying to illustrate the silliness of what I thought was going on
< 1293662028 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, play without mcmap?
< 1293662030 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right?
< 1293662034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: And WALK to the Cube?
< 1293662035 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I wish I was.
< 1293662037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so.
< 1293662041 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you have two computers.
< 1293662052 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, link to source?
< 1293662053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM NOT TURNING ON MY OLD LAPTOP JUST TO RUN MCMAP FOR FUCK'S SAKE
< 1293662063 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also you don't /need/ mcmap as such.
< 1293662073 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, it is nice to have
< 1293662083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I am not walking to the Cube.
< 1293662091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ergo I need //goto.
< 1293662091 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah, but I mean, you'll have to wait to get Apple to sign it as well.
< 1293662107 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might as well break out the old laptop.
< 1293662155 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GPLv3 prevents allowing them from doing such things unless you are given a separate key for your own computer so that it can be bypassed in that way
< 1293662166 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Python/Perl/Ruby have this license?
< 1293662170 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know.
< 1293662199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of those are GPLv3'd.
< 1293662229 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But GNU packages are GPLv3'd.
< 1293662249 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you not allowed to run any GNU packages?
< 1293662250 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1293662257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You can if you homebrew them.
< 1293662292 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What does "homebrew them" mean? What do you do in order to do that?
< 1293662302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Break in.
< 1293662358 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, I think, when someone asks if you're being sarcastic, and you obviously are, the polite thing to do is to make fun of them for being slow to figure it out, not keep it going
< 1293662401 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't they just give you a "unit key" for this purpose? Even the GPLv3 suggests doing this.
< 1293662403 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I apologise for nothing!
< 1293662410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If you're that dense to miss obvious sarcasm, you deserve it.
< 1293662421 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, it was not, in fact, the truth.
< 1293662425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And fuck that idea of "politeness"; mocking you is hilarious, fun and easy, like all good things in life.
< 1293662452 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: It is unclear what you are refering to.
< 1293662458 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could have mocked me in a less cruel manner!
< 1293662464 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, the Apple thing.
< 1293662548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That was not cruel ... that was an obvious joke.
< 1293662551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are way too sensitive.
< 1293662864 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#machomebrew appears a secret unregistered channel.
< 1293662897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Um, it's registered for me.
< 1293662965 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My computer says it is unregistered and secret but existing.
< 1293662976 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does it say that? Is that a lie?
< 1293662982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know.
< 1293663018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION taints his box with non-LLVM stuff

< 1293663067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:19:42  It probably says "PentiumPro" because PPro is the first CPU to return family=6, which is what pentiums II, III, M, and Core/Core2/Core i7, and Atom, return too. (P4 returns family=15, for some unclear reason.)
< 1293663075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Aren't all the ones listed PIII arcthiecture, and P4 NetBurst?
< 1293663080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, wait, M is NetBurst too isn't it.
< 1293663173 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have plans to make the computer and one day I will do it!! (I have access to barter some people might help with these things) It is many difference from other computer.
< 1293663190 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://arxiv.org/abs/0908.1803v1
< 1293663199 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, all the good ideas are taken.
< 1293663206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  I have plans to make the computer and one day I will do it!! (I have access to barter some people might help with these things) It is many difference from other computer.
< 1293663207 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :258)  I have plans to make the computer and one day I will do it!! (I have access to barter some people might help with these things) It is many difference from other computer.
< 1293663221 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Racket has such a ... not-ready-for-prime-time-yet feel to it
< 1293663251 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, in their response to those criticisms, for instance
< 1293663280 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to use only components with the following criteria:  * Component is not expensive. * No special membership is required. * Public information is available how it works, someone else can make a clone or emulation. * It can be programmed without proprietary software. * Components are user-replaceable.
< 1293663280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Um, it is *decades* old.
< 1293663283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay, decade.
< 1293663292 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, which is why it's a bit concernng
< 1293663294 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :concerning
< 1293663296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1994 apparently.
< 1293663302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Your complaints are stupid, though.
< 1293663306 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And possibly a few more criteria, too.
< 1293663325 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about the complaints of the person I linked to?
< 1293663333 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is your opinion of these criteria?
< 1293663337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I didn't see.
< 1293663352 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://programming-puzzler.blogspot.com/2010/08/racket-vs-clojure.html
< 1293663368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I need to name my computer. Anyone have any good hostnames?
< 1293663370 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293663379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Clojure is terrible so anyone who's comparing X to Clojure and preferring Clojure is a moron unless X is PHP.
< 1293663408 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I get the impression that the person wants to prefer Racket
< 1293663416 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And hates a lot of things about Clojure
< 1293663420 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-34-253.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293663424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care about some random guy on the internet.
< 1293663428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now someone name my computer.
< 1293663431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: You name it.
< 1293663434 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't know. Are you going to use some dynamic DNS service? Will you get a static address and DNS? Is it only for your private network?
< 1293663438 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ok, but eir criticisms might still be valid
< 1293663445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(My previous one was called dinky; as this computer is EVEN DINKER, I have no idea what to call it.)
< 1293663454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, but I don't read every post that says HASKELL SUX either.
< 1293663460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Just for private network.
< 1293663461 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone defending Racket on that page: "In support of Racket, we have come up with a library of data structures in Typed Racket (a statically typed dialect of Racket). And we are in the process of integrating it into the Racket release"
< 1293663462 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the Anguish of Malevolence.
< 1293663466 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Call it "evendinker", then.
< 1293663466 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Angy" for short.
< 1293663472 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., "We're working on it"
< 1293663477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*evendinkier
< 1293663482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Typed Racket is very old.
< 1293663488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So clearly they are just merging it into Racket itself.
< 1293663493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Note that you can used Typed Racket with Racket.
< 1293663499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Racket supports multiple languages in one implementation.
< 1293663505 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I am aware of that
< 1293663506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They coexist and can use the same libraries.
< 1293663516 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty ... I think Racket wants to take over the world
< 1293663521 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consume all other languages
< 1293663536 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Racket = Scheme \cup other cool things, yes?
< 1293663543 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293663550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Pretty much. Except it's not a strict R5RS superset now.
< 1293663553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Conses are immutable)
< 1293663554 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There will never be a Racket.NET, because Racket and .NET are almost in competition
< 1293663575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Something wrong with creating a cohesive environment?
< 1293663579 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, pleasepleaseplease tell me that's a quote?
< 1293663583 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*.
< 1293663589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1293663589 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, that what's not a quote
< 1293663595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...?
< 1293663598 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1293663605 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if you do not call the computer Angy I will be very upset and I won't help you ever again.
< 1293663623 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, the thing I didn't put in quote marks?
< 1293663624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: BTW, my previous computer names have been Bournemouth (the iMac, named after the computer in Look Around You series 2; previously Deep-Thought), and dinky.
< 1293663638 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look Around You series 2!
< 1293663645 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I had it!
< 1293663651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Yes! The comedy program slightly worse than Look Around You series 1!
< 1293663654 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least series 1 is on YouTube!
< 1293663672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Bournemouth was a computer so clever it had to be kept in a cage to stop it escaping.
< 1293663689 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure that clip is on YouTube
< 1293663693 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen it, so
< 1293663700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC.
< 1293663710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnNSvzvY6VE
< 1293663713 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hmm. Remember it vaguely.
< 1293663745 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think more languages shoud have dual-pane REPLs like DrRacket
< 1293663750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd call it ninja, were it not so cliche.
< 1293663758 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, explain.
< 1293663759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll call it REAL-ULTIMATE-POWER.
< 1293663762 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ANGY
< 1293663771 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, definitions separate from REPL entry
< 1293663775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Got a list of every named object in H2G2?
< 1293663792 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can just edit the definitions without retyping them or copy-paste
< 1293663802 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And without having a file to store the program open
< 1293663815 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, oh, AKA @'s source editor.
< 1293663840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yeah, @ did it first ... or is that will do it later..."
< 1293663896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: I should call it Hotblack Desatio.
< 1293663913 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1293663920 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLaneT sounds great, but... I think centralization shouldn't be the only answer to module management
< 1293664100 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.12/20101026210630]
< 1293664339 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i forgot it, what was it about? remind me
< 1293664376 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DS9's was a murderer who escaped death by entering other people's minds, and was killed
< 1293664384 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry for spoilers)
< 1293664403 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ds9 and spoilers? ahahahah
< 1293664404 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude
< 1293664408 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1293664425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: what's so funny, ds9 is incredibly linear
< 1293664445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make: pkg-config: Command not found
< 1293664462 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FT-1'f jnf Nahovf jnf haxvyynoyr, naq gnxvat bire crbcyr. Ur riraghnyyl rfpncrq, ohg jnf gevpxrq vagb tbvat bagb n sebmra cynarg.
< 1293664471 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: saying "i spoiled ds9 for you" is like saying "i threw away your two week old pizza leftovers, you can't eat them anymore"
< 1293664493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know that Snape killed Dumbledore/!??!.
< 1293664500 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like he told us what's on the desert planet in star trek iv
< 1293664510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the answer is Khan)
< 1293664516 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the answer is
< 1293664519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SG-1's was Anubis was unkillable, and taking over people. He eventually escaped, but was tricked into going onto a frozen planet.
< 1293664522 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
< 1293664524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: fixed that for you
< 1293664533 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh him
< 1293664556 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was boring
< 1293664588 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i liked how his avatar in the higher plane was a rotund banker
< 1293664645 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone sane use Insert Lambda in DrRacket?
< 1293664676 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if they're sane but they use it to inflict pain on other people who later have to work with that code?
< 1293664686 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Snape did not killed Dumbledore. I did (accidentally)
< 1293664692 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a reason why i write production code with haskell
< 1293664758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Sure.
< 1293664761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode lambdas are nice.
< 1293664781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HERE GOES COMPILATION TIME TO RADIATE MY FUTURE BABIES AWAY
< 1293664784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE BENEFITS OF LAPTOPS
< 1293664882 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why my preferred means of getting babies is theft.
< 1293664895 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is very funny
< 1293664903 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :λ
< 1293664913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Before they're born?
< 1293664928 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before their parents are born?
< 1293664940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I have this mental image of you pulling fetuses out of vaginas now and keeping them all in your lair, laughing manically.
< 1293664947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is possibly the best mental image I have ever had
< 1293664997 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, incidentally, are you really anosmic?
< 1293665012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==> ed - config.h < config.h.ed
< 1293665013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i approve
< 1293665046 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have taken all the numbers under 24 million, and grouped them in groups of 24. then i took the 1st, 5th, 7th, 11th, 13th, ... 23rd number off those. that's 8 numbers, and if the nth number is a prime number, the bit is 1. i have put this string of bytes in a wave file, and the output is.. white noise?
< 1293665081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: ZOMG WHAT IS RANDOMNESS
< 1293665082 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Why did you do that?
< 1293665091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are spiral forms if you render the distribution a certain way though IIRC
< 1293665094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan probably knows more
< 1293665103 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, google "primzahlenkreuz"
< 1293665106 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why i did 24
< 1293665124 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how difficult it would be to implement a Python subset in Racket

< 1293665126 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone came up to me with this idea, i immediately called BS on it
< 1293665129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: been done iirc
< 1293665131 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, implement is the wrong word
< 1293665133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone did some denotational semantics thing
< 1293665137 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have as a #lang
< 1293665156 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i did this silly little calculation, and it proved interesting.
< 1293665163 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't really know what denotational semantics is :(

< 1293665166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting as ... white noise?
< 1293665182 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly this amount of interesting.
< 1293665187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :console.c:144: error: ‘rl_mark’ undeclared (first use in this function)
< 1293665197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Compiling mcmap on OS X needs you to manually use GNU readline, FWIW.
< 1293665202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it comes with libedit as libreadline, I think.
< 1293665225 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does there have to be readline drama
< 1293665229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1293665232 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all those people are out of their minds
< 1293665234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1293665238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no readline drama
< 1293665240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck are you talking about
< 1293665242 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course there is
< 1293665265 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every second language that has an interpreter abandons readline and goes for some sort of alternative bs
< 1293665276 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's gpl
< 1293665279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1293665281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfectly reasonable.
< 1293665288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libedit is very common and well-known
< 1293665290 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Pretty much accurate.
< 1293665293 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Hyposmic.
< 1293665308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: is it unthinkable to you that some people like licensing code under something that isn't gpl?
< 1293665312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus preventing them using readline?
< 1293665322 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what does that cause?
< 1293665335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map.c: In function ‘map_init’:
< 1293665335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map.c:107: error: nested functions are disabled, use -fnested-functions to re-enable
< 1293665335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map.c: In function ‘map_draw_player_marker’:
< 1293665337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map.c:399: error: nested functions are disabled, use -fnested-functions to re-enable
< 1293665339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ^
< 1293665360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :world.c: In function ‘world_thread’:
< 1293665361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :world.c:460: warning: no return statement in function returning non-void
< 1293665369 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this is too complicated for my simple mind
< 1293665413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: return NULL fixes that.
< 1293665415 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: It doesn't "cause" anything, it's a symptom, it's a reduced sense of smell.
< 1293665438 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, oh, of course.
< 1293665450 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: PRINTER IS EXPLODING
< 1293665540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on mcmap, you can connect.
< 1293665722 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293666182 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MAKE RFID READERS FOR THE NEW WORLD ORDER
< 1293666278 0 :Wamanuz4!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293666313 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, will they spare your organs when they make their harvest?
< 1293666333 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his organs will clearly be saved
< 1293666346 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now where and which purpose i cannot say
< 1293666355 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*for which
< 1293666438 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly they'll keep him so that when they get bored after crushing all the dissidents they have someone to RFID tag everyone else.
< 1293666476 0 :Wamanuz3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1293666748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: WHAT SHOULD I DO THAT IS INTERESTING
< 1293666861 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there an exploration mode in MC that doesn't let you mod stuff?
< 1293666917 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is one planned.
< 1293666923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: There's an adventure mode.
< 1293666928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mod presumably you mean change blocks.
< 1293666932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adventure mode is pre-scripted stuff.
< 1293666933 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1293666933 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it will never happen until Notch gets his act together.
< 1293666942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why you'd want to explore and do absolutely nothing.
< 1293666944 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which will never happen full stop.
< 1293666946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can; just never hit any blocks.
< 1293666956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that would be _boring_.
< 1293666983 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.  i was thinking you could make a true 3d maze and just trust everyone who plays it not to cheat :P
< 1293667047 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would be better if you had a 3d maze where hitting blocks was part of it...but can you even place indestructible blocks?  i didn't think you could...
< 1293667061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: well obsidian takes 30s or so to mine even with a diamond pickaxe
< 1293667064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with hand ... minutes
< 1293667072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: you can place bedrock as a server op though
< 1293667074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is indestructable
< 1293667126 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can't remove it, so god help you if you place a block wrongly.
< 1293667135 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could just make a map out of bedrock i guess...
< 1293667164 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is Racket's functional reactive stuff a good way to learn functional reactive programming?
< 1293667165 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, bedrock is destructible in the sense that it doesn't actually have infinite resistance to explosions, just mind-bogglingly high.
< 1293667177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Doubtful.
< 1293667201 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I suppose you could make a creeper farm or something, then set them all off at once once you had 186000 of them.
< 1293667275 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do 186000 creepers explode?
< 1293667298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Explosively.
< 1293667398 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's their kapow/gram ratio?
< 1293667421 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so what's a good way to learn?
< 1293667422 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293667430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Three goats and a pile of ratios.
< 1293667441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Approximately creeper kapows to the gram. :p
< 1293667456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Creepers are 1/4 less powerful than TNT, with explosion power of 3. The harder the surrounding material, the less damaging the explosion will be. So secure homes need to be built with a stronger material to avoid creeper damage.
< 1293667461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Explosion
< 1293667469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: You can work out the kapow/gram from that + explosion power = 3 :P
< 1293667519 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293667631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Guess what an OUTDATED GHC I am installing.
< 1293667645 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea!
< 1293667654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: 6.12.3 OH GOD
< 1293667663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: GHC 7 is not meant to be used by regular people yet :P)
< 1293667678 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minecraft cannons amaze me
< 1293667681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, there's a Haskell platform package
< 1293667682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.
< 1293667688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just install that.
< 1293667703 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: isn't there a HP beta/alpha/something for GHC 7 yet?
< 1293667720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: probably
< 1293667726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN-CeXyTmBE
< 1293667738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: but homebrew doesn't have it :)
< 1293667757 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously...
< 1293667775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: your obvious
< 1293667827 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :186000 creepers... Huh.
< 1293667837 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this is awesome
< 1293667846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Might be a BIT hard to get them into one place :P
< 1293667850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: You'd need a very very big trap.
< 1293667864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: And also a way to set them off and then get VERY FAR AWAY VERY QUICKLY.
< 1293667868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Perhaps with a Nether portal.)
< 1293667874 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: btw, I was reading about L4 in the holidays... turns out it's pretty much exactly what I was going to build with my OS thingy
< 1293667884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: this is why i tried to golf your kernel
< 1293667888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: to beat L4 at its own game
< 1293667895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: but did you listen?!
< 1293667966 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... I did listen, I just rejected all your ideas afterwards
< 1293667980 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even 500 resistance is apparently enough to resist any explosion that can occur...
< 1293668112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: but WHY :D
< 1293668113 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100k explosions occuring at once won't help if damage isn't cumulative...
< 1293668244 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://www.youtube.com/comment?lc=P78EgF_u1b1Ac68qVGQ4aPUxKZk9QNha7b6ooPb8gAQ
< 1293668256 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : olsner: but homebrew doesn't have it :) <-- * suddenly realizes what this macho mebrew talk was about
< 1293668267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1293668277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :-D
< 1293668294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well OS X does use the Mach-O object format
< 1293668303 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it all about with this Racket, what is this language? :P
< 1293668308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: PLT Scheme
< 1293668315 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i saw the webpage but looks like another Scheme
< 1293668317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so one could say -- Mac Homebrew: "Mach-O, me brew"
< 1293668320 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at first glance
< 1293668321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: it used to be called PLT Scheme.
< 1293668327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: you know of it. it's that famous one.
< 1293668333 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293668335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they decided it wasn't very scheme any more and rebranded
< 1293668376 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hole with lots of creepers on bottom might be nasty for who falls into it...
< 1293668376 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm
< 1293668380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh! http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2010-December/087788.html oleg wrote that :-D
< 1293668389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oleg writing about Peter Landin being a genius, is there anything better?
< 1293668399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Hell, a handful of creepers is already very close to fatal even with full armour.
< 1293668430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Have a bunch of pressure plates activating a redstone circuit that detonates a huge amount of TNT below you, going way down near bedrock, where there are 20 creepers...
< 1293668439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Death trap, but requires a lot of rebuilding for each victim :-)
< 1293668488 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about traps with sand and water
< 1293668511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: well, probably -- i don't know how to do them :-(
< 1293668567 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about digging hole 3x3 blocks in size and two deep. Filling the bottom with TNT blocks and above with something like sand. Then rig a trigger on the center block on ground level...
< 1293668790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Ponzi is better than Racket, anyway.
< 1293668808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Do you play Minecraft? If not, your evil genius is going SORELY to waste not doing so.
< 1293668839 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is uncertain whether that's a joke

< 1293668840 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wikis

< 1293668867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Ponzi Scheme is the name I have eternally reserved for my Scheme dialect.
< 1293668871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just SO PERFECT.
< 1293668879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) Ponzi is memorable and short, and a good name for binaries;
< 1293668882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2) The pun is awesome.
< 1293668893 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pressure plate to detonate TNT block immediately behind wall/floor/ceilling would probably be bad enough anyway...
< 1293668911 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(3) It will be talked about a lot, and get people interested, but never pay dividends
< 1293668924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: But rather a pain to put back after some poor sap dies.
< 1293668928 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly ponzi scheme is destined to take over the world.  and then cause its collapse.
< 1293668992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one disadvantage is googlability :D
< 1293669000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, tech things tend to rank higher than their non-tech meanings on google...
< 1293669004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nerds rule the internet
< 1293669026 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or some TNT blocks hidden behind a wall and a creeper there...
< 1293669052 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, put the creeper also behind a wall...
< 1293669065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: At this point, I think I'd just start stabbing people when they walk into my house.
< 1293669087 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ponzi's scheme paid dividends.
< 1293669120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why it was perfectly all right!
< 1293669128 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course!
< 1293669135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION worries briefly about why oerjan knows about ponzi's scheme

< 1293669146 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wikipedia?
< 1293669157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: CUT IT OUT, WITH YOUR LOGIC
< 1293669163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and your, and, and your LOGIC
< 1293669191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you know what makes me sad?
< 1293669192 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to talk about hotswapping, they're now talking about eval
< 1293669200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scheme's inconsistency with mathematical operators.
< 1293669215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (+)
< 1293669215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0
< 1293669215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (*)
< 1293669216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1
< 1293669218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but (-) gives an error
< 1293669220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and (- x) = -x
< 1293669222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than x
< 1293669224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(-) should = 0 of course
< 1293669235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and (/) should result in 1
< 1293669237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT THE WORST
< 1293669241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(min) and (max) are errors
< 1293669246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(min) should = infinity
< 1293669248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and (max) = -infinity
< 1293669251 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i don't see why, they're not monoid operations
< 1293669251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for obvious reasons
< 1293669261 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(- and /)
< 1293669270 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :min and max i might agree
< 1293669270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm just being silly
< 1293669280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but it would be more consistent to have (op x (op)) = x
< 1293669282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all op
< 1293669284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and x obvs)
< 1293669307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (and also you could use it to implement a fold where you don't have to specify the zero :))
< 1293669319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact such a fold could just be (apply op lst)
< 1293669376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Knowingly entering a Ponzi scheme, even at the last round of the scheme, can be rational economically if there is a reasonable expectation that government or other deep pockets will bail out those participating in the Ponzi scheme.[2]]]
< 1293669379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just silly :)
< 1293669380 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall there was some language where you could register identity elements for functions in that way
< 1293669397 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps one of the CASes
< 1293669434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably
< 1293669473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i just say that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania is the most amazing thing ever
< 1293669497 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION learned about that from a Phantom comic

< 1293670088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Want to invest in code-money with Ponzi Scheme Developments?
< 1293670103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I figure I can develop this on a Ponzi scheme model, using payments of code to pay other people who want implementations of that feature.)
< 1293670115 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1293670144 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293670166 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293670200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh man, this display has so much better colours than my old laptop.
< 1293670205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is insane how differently things look.
< 1293670289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: have you played the PLT GAMES yet
< 1293670298 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No?
< 1293670587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's in the racket folder
< 1293670593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PREPARE FOR AMAZING
< 1293670690 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1293670772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: CARD - MOTHER - GAMES - FUCKIN' - PLT - YEAH
< 1293670803 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it suppose to show that these sorts of games are easy to implement?
< 1293670891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I have no idea why it exists.
< 1293670898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably as a demo of ... its abilities?
< 1293670918 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Factor and Racket are related
< 1293670930 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are we sure Slava isn't part of the PLT team?
< 1293671005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Umm ... no he isn't.
< 1293671017 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was joking, kind of
< 1293671036 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both Racket and Factor seem to love the ability to include other languages inside itself
< 1293671063 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Racket and Factor both have slideshow libraries
< 1293671071 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Documentation DSLs
< 1293671253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293671306 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293671322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that if your whole screen goes pink that's not a good thing.
< 1293671517 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293671560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi j-invariant
< 1293671760 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey
< 1293671782 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it takes about 3 mins (= forever) to typecheck a single definition I have now :/
< 1293671796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: wow :-D
< 1293671806 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even a proof search, just Definition make_product : Hom X A -> Hom X B -> Hom X AxB
< 1293671811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: seriously? wow
< 1293671815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: how big is the printed term?
< 1293671817 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::= fun f g => pi1 (pi1 ... f g))
< 1293671822 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh never thought of checking that
< 1293671843 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's not big at all
< 1293671866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: huh
< 1293671870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: how good is your machine :-P
< 1293671889 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well everything happens quickly except for this single definition
< 1293671901 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://coq.pastebin.com/MJCUF7MT
< 1293671962 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think internally, it's got a situation like to  A x = A' y  to check, and it unfolds A to get B C D and it unfolds all those for layers and layers and them normalizes these huge terms
< 1293672015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1293672026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think there's anything you can do
< 1293672032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: are you low on ram? maybe that would help
< 1293672040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's expanding REALLY huge terms :p
< 1293672041 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not very promising.. what if you wanted to actually USE this stuff?
< 1293672093 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :top says 100% CPU but it's only getting up to 3.3% MEM
< 1293672100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: why would you do anything useful in Coq :D
< 1293672109 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh now it's climbing up to 7%
< 1293672252 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its still going :/
< 1293672293 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293672431 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I still like this idea of having a category theory language that checks with Coq to make sure everything is sound
< 1293672448 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: although I only know how to make simple data types in catgeory theory and they're no fun!
< 1293672452 0 :p_q!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293672664 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :left object nat with pr is
< 1293672668 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  0: 1 -> nat
< 1293672671 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  s: nat -> nat
< 1293672673 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1293672680 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end object;
< 1293672689 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's natural numbers and primitive recursion
< 1293672696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: nice
< 1293672699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: what are lists :-P
< 1293672718 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1293672726 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right object colist(X) with coprl is delist: colist -> coprod(1,prod(X,colist))
< 1293672729 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end object;
< 1293672737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: any non-co version? :p
< 1293672782 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :left object list(a) with foldr is
< 1293672787 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  nil: a -> list(a)
< 1293672791 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1293672794 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  nil: 1 -> list(a)
< 1293672798 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  cons: a -> list(a)
< 1293672800 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end object;
< 1293672814 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that's wrong
< 1293672829 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was maybe
< 1293672876 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  cons: prod(a,list(a)) -> list(a)
< 1293672900 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: best one is this:
< 1293672900 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right object exp(a,b) with curry is
< 1293672900 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval: prod(exp,a) -> b
< 1293672901 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end object;
< 1293672908 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they define lambda
< 1293672914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that is awesome.
< 1293672916 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in order to do ackermann)
< 1293672931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: have you actually implemented this syntax?
< 1293672938 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no this is someone else
< 1293672957 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/CPL
< 1293672967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: aww, boring! prior art is teh suck :)
< 1293672980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd like to live in a bubble where nobody has done anything so i get to figure it all out myself
< 1293673049 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time for more DS9
< 1293673055 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is supposed to improve soon, right?
< 1293673097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ds9 is good all the way through. but most especially in the later seasons
< 1293673107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: if you think "oh i'll just skip to the later seasons!" you fail everything forever)
< 1293673130 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When does the Dominion War start?
< 1293673137 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION <3 Odo

< 1293673267 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you know Charity
< 1293673274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I know of it, yes
< 1293673279 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's basically the same as that
< 1293673281 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except nicer
< 1293673298 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :charity is so ugly
< 1293673307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Season two is when the DOminion are introduced.
< 1293673324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Then it takes until season five and six for the war machine to actually explode.
< 1293673335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's a slow series, live with it.
< 1293673363 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but are many of the episodes before 5 and 6 about the Dominion?
< 1293673388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Plenty, it's all a long, slow buildup... but seriously, there are good non-Dominion episodes.
< 1293673390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stick with the series.
< 1293673394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: is charity category based?
< 1293673395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never knew
< 1293673403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh it is
< 1293673425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: this page has always amused me http://pll.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/charity1/www/wofm/wofm1.html
< 1293673431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yeah charity is totally 50% practical
< 1293673436 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah lol
< 1293673441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what with its complete lack of IO and strong termination requirement
< 1293673453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lack of any development or libraries at all :)
< 1293673480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: can you not have a constructor A->B->C in category theory?
< 1293673483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it all has to be A->B
< 1293673485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems kind of ugly
< 1293673579 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did anyone answer zzos question?
< 1293673592 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a sub-turing language that has an undecidable halting problem?
< 1293673603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: he answered it himself
< 1293673606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, there is not
< 1293673609 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not?
< 1293673611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it that you answered it
< 1293673615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: well
< 1293673622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: there was that cheat answer (he?) gave
< 1293673626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "yes" technically i guess
< 1293673629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no interesting ones :)
< 1293673696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno
< 1293673852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293673940 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293673968 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: btw CPL is a single category
< 1293673986 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and it's equivalent to simple lambda calculus
< 1293674001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: ah ... so those are not actually defining categories?
< 1293674005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1293674007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that makes no sense
< 1293674015 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: would be interesting to have one that lets you use multiple categories and equivalent to dependent types
< 1293674015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: the problem with category theory is that it's basically a meta-type-system
< 1293674020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and generally you want to work in a type system :)
< 1293674036 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I have been thinking about the idea of category theory as a meta-type-system
< 1293674049 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have  (terms : types) :: CATEGORY THEORY
< 1293674062 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :types make sure your syntax is good,  category theory makes sure your semantics are good ?
< 1293674069 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. that the program is correct)
< 1293674086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe
< 1293674093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: you need to make... METAGORY THEORY
< 1293674120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((terms : types) :: CATEGORY THEORY) :::::::::::: 
METAGORY THEORY
< 1293674123 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llol
< 1293674216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: http://www.lfcs.inf.ed.ac.uk/reports/87/ECS-LFCS-87-38/ this is the lang that haskell thing implements apparently
< 1293674229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ph.D. thesis - Price £7.00" <- fuck that
< 1293674231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone wanna pirate it
< 1293674238 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh you can get it off Haginos ste
< 1293674245 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.164.1837&rep=rep1&type=pdf
< 1293674249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.164.1837&rep=rep1&type=pdf
< 1293674250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1293674627 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've seen this episode before
< 1293674641 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is HtDP decent?
< 1293674653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I've never read it and I don't care.
< 1293674656 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HtDP sucks
< 1293674671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: really, why?
< 1293674674 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all faux pragmatism and getting stuff "done"
< 1293674711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sicccppppppppp
< 1293674731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: HAVE YOU READ YOUR SICP TODAY
< 1293674775 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1293674805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(RIP /prog/ being interesting some time -- some other time)
< 1293674977 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm?
< 1293675113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what?
< 1293675334 0 :a1234567890!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Ex-Chat
< 1293675433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293675447 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293675717 0 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293675746 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with /prog/?
< 1293675754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1293675756 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, you don't mean /r/programming do you
< 1293676006 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293676099 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have accessed by gopher server by a proxy, it will not work anymore, except Floodgap (there is two reasons I did not block Floodgap). Direct connection is prefer. If you do not want direct connection, you can use Tor.
< 1293676262 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Indeed, "/prog/" is not the same thing as "/r/programming" ... but /r/programming is terrible too.
< 1293676265 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Why can I not use a proxy?
< 1293676320 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I blocked the proxies from accessing it to prevent the gopher service from being indexed by Google. (You can still use Veronica to search it if you want to, though.)
< 1293676335 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What is wrong with Google indexing it?
< 1293676432 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Our slogan is: “category theory can provide a better and more natural understanding of mathematical objects than set theory”, so we use it to guide our tour around the world of data types. Note that we do not mean to abandon set theory by this. We will still heavily rely on it, but our intuition should not be obstructed by it.
< 1293676436 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that is the least catchiest slogan ever
< 1293676441 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*catchy
< 1293676458 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Two things. One thing is I don't want Google to index it (use Veronica if you want to search gopher). The other thing is the proxy requests indexed by Google waste power (but it is OK for Veronica and other things like that to index it, I am OK with these things).
< 1293676477 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Why do you not want Google to index it?
< 1293676514 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: What do *you* think??
< 1293676533 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't know. I am asking why you do not want Google to index it.
< 1293676551 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: LOL
< 1293676552 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that from?
< 1293676556 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: this thesis you mentioned
< 1293676559 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: with CPL
< 1293676563 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh
< 1293676585 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CATEGORY INDUSTRIES -- category theory can provide a better and more natural understanding of mathematical objects than set theory
< 1293676590 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1293676591 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, still not very ctachy
< 1293676592 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*catchy
< 1293676614 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-35-106.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293676624 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: That isn't their job. One thing Google is not suited for gopher search, and I don't particularly like Google and those other service, anyways. It is OK if Google indexes HTML pages linking to my gopher, that is OK with me and I have no problem with that.
< 1293676634 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to search gopher, please use a gopher search service, such as Veronica.
< 1293676647 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Why do you not like Google and other indexing services?
< 1293676726 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: why not like google?
< 1293676766 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually there are many thing I do not like about Google (not only the search engine, but other things too). I also do not want Copyscape to be able to find it (Copyscape uses both Google and Yahoo! to search), and I don't want someone to find the proxy page and not learn about the protocol.
< 1293676778 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there are many more reasons that I will not list here it takes too much time.
< 1293676784 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What are the things you do not like about Google?
< 1293676796 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what is wrong with copyscape?
< 1293676844 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, one thing is the search engine. I don't like the way they tried to make it much more user-friendly, or they try to steal everyone's information (even if before they tried not to, they still do now), etc.....
< 1293676884 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What do you mean by steal everyone's information?
< 1293676886 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to use Copyscape you can use it. But I have some files protected by Anti-Copyscape (a program I wrote).
< 1293676889 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what is wrong with user-friendly?
< 1293676898 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did you write anti-copyscape?
< 1293676906 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not understand what is wrong with copyscape.
< 1293676939 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Actually the original reason I wrote Anti-Copyscape is that someone had no PDF reader and I wanted to copy it out for them. The PDF was protected by Copyscape.
< 1293676958 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Excuse me? Copyscape is just a search engine.
< 1293676962 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do not protect PDFs.
< 1293676970 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You must be thinking of something else.
< 1293676984 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there is only one file on my service affected by Anti-Copyscape, and it is not linked anywhere, so it doesn't matter much.
< 1293676989 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyscape As you can see here they do not do any PDF things.
< 1293676993 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/et6tb/anyone_else_see_eating_food_as_a_chore/
< 1293677016 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Actually they do PDF, since Google does PDF, so does Copyscape.
< 1293677026 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone who understands me!
< 1293677028 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: OK, but I do not know what protected means here.
< 1293677034 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: How did it prevent you from copying the file?
< 1293677093 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: There is PDF encryption (anyone without PDF software cannot read it), but that was not the reason for writing Anti-Copyscape. Basically, there is a "Protected by Copyscape" sign.
< 1293677130 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: OK, well, what does it matter if someone put that there? All it means is that they'll search with Copyscape for plagiarised works based on theirs every now and then.
< 1293677138 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does Anti-Copyscape do?
< 1293677159 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Forces the user to enter a number before entering. (It tells the user what number to type in)
< 1293677175 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What does that accomplish?
< 1293677239 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also disable indexing as well.
< 1293677247 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What does having to enter a number accomplish?
< 1293677361 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Nothing much. But that's old and I really have no use for it anymore. I wrote it only for someone's request because they wanted to access a specific PDF file but they had no program to access it.
< 1293677377 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. Did they request you write Anti-Copyscape?
< 1293677566 0 :p_q!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1293677796 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This episode was ranked last in Entertainment Weekly's evaluation of the first two seasons of the show.
< 1293677796 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"
< 1293677800 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF? I liked it
< 1293677800 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: No; they couldn't have known about the Copyscape without seeing the PDF document. So I just had to make an assumption.
< 1293677810 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What show.
< 1293677818 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DS9
< 1293677821 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Move_Along_Home
< 1293677822 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What episode.
< 1293677846 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: BTW you liking a thing is inversely correlated with it being good.
< 1293677866 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Smalltalk!
< 1293677928 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Probably for all the wrong reasons.
< 1293677959 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If they could see the PDF document, they would not need me to do this, isn't it?)
< 1293678064 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Do you like the wrong reasons for all the wrong reasons?
< 1293678367 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://manifestoism.com/post/2183131490/manifestoist-manifesto Manifestoist Manifesto.
< 1293678422 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293678463 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, if someone wants to stop me making some kind of linkblahg to replace /r/programming so I can sleep at night, now is the time.
< 1293678482 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linkblahg??
< 1293678485 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on reddit or what
< 1293678495 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What does linkblahg means? And what are you doing anyways?
< 1293678519 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: linkblahg = linkblog = a bunch of summarised links and short commentary with an RSS feed.
< 1293678533 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think http://chneukirchen.org/trivium/, except cooler because it's me.
< 1293678555 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly i doubt i'll be able to stop myself posting long-form crap but at the same time my laziness will ensure that it is vanishingly rare
< 1293678597 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really care whether or not you make that. Decide by your own opinion, please.
< 1293678606 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://excamera.com/sphinx/fpga-j1.html this is VERY cool! 16-bit Forth CPU in _200 lines of Verilog_! w/ TCP/IP stack, system can fit in 8 kbytes!
< 1293678621 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with /r/programming ?
< 1293678625 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://excamera.com/files/j1demo/docforth/invaders.fs.html space invaders!
< 1293678627 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's terrible.
< 1293678633 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing about reddit is the comments are stupid
< 1293678640 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everything crap gets upvoted
< 1293678642 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to be excellent but now it's all uninteresting bullshit
< 1293678645 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all the comments are retarded
< 1293678651 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y;eah it used to be a great site
< 1293678660 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/r/haskell is still really good - but is of course haskell specific
< 1293678668 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if /r/programming was as consistently good as /r/haskell I wouldn't mind at all
< 1293678672 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's how I found out about Factor iirc... or at least where I first heard of it
< 1293678687 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: from our perspectives that is not a good thing as you have not shut up about it since
< 1293678690 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone said that they liked Factor and J, but they were frustratingly ungoogleable
< 1293678709 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I've slowed down about it
< 1293678727 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I don't like the commericalish/markety silliness that is taking over haskell
< 1293678742 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yeah, well ... I think it peaked a while back and is slowing down now
< 1293678745 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Download Haskell" instead of "Download GHC", "apps" etc..
< 1293678754 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: right yes download haskell pissed me off
< 1293678759 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: nothing wrong with "Download Haskell Platform"
< 1293678761 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what it /is/
< 1293678774 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell Platform as a brand name I can live with ... the capital P makes it ok imo
< 1293678806 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the link blog would basically be like all the silly links i post here, except with more coherent commentry, more often, and in a feed :P
< 1293678913 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you know I feel like the web could be more useful than it is right now, I'm not sure if that's because I just don't know about good sites though
< 1293678945 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful in what sense?
< 1293679003 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: well. the basic problem is that crap increases. so you need a filter, an aggregator to let you know what's good. the problem is that: filters run by one person can't keep up with the amount of content, and fundamentally rely on *other* filters (directly or indirectly, to find the content); and filters run by multiple people often get drowned out by noise as time goes on and they increase in popularity (e.g. reddit)
< 1293679035 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only that
< 1293679049 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but each person has a different filter criterion
< 1293679074 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well, yes. but it's easy enough to be your own meta-filter (lol Metafilter) on a filter that matches closely enough
< 1293679078 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which /r/programming was circa 2007
< 1293679083 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can basically do it in real-time
< 1293679094 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any Free (as in speech) FPGA? Is there any other hardware programming languages?
< 1293679101 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MetaFilter is actually quite nice incidentally, but it's rather generalised and so more of a timewaster than anything else
< 1293679113 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: VHDL and Verilog are the only ones I know of.
< 1293679388 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to see one that you write the hardware program in terms of gates and macros of gates, and that you can do preprocessing with powerful.
< 1293679451 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I preprocess with powerful all day.
< 1293679990 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Increasing generality: finite automata < pushdown automata < linear bounded automata < Turing machines           I get what one first and last are
< 1293679996 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the middle two?
< 1293680083 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are pushdown automata
< 1293680110 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, that is my question
< 1293680116 0 :Wamanuz4!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293680129 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finite automata which carries around a stack
< 1293680186 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and  linear bounded automata ?
< 1293680252 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A turing machine is just a automata with unbounded memory
< 1293680261 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could memory be linearly bounded?
< 1293680328 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any Free (as in speech) FPGA or similar devices?
< 1293680581 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1293680806 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pornography: Are we getting enough of it? A new study by Future Lechers of America suggests that we are not.
< 1293680914 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1293681035 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Please donate to keep Wikipedia free" I FUCKING HATE THIS TEXT
< 1293681039 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it suggests -
< 1293681040 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't donate
< 1293681043 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we'll start charging
< 1293681045 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ads all over the place
< 1293681046 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bullshit
< 1293681049 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you wikimedia
< 1293681174 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, adblock
< 1293681234 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: irrelevant
< 1293681242 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: whether i see them or not it's still stupid as fuck
< 1293681457 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228060092.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293681536 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293681571 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293681578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO ANYWAY,
< 1293681583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the back of my copy of SICP
< 1293681589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :refers to Hal Abelson as
< 1293681600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a Class of 1922 Professor
< 1293681603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is actually 1992
< 1293681612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i prefer thinking that Hal Abelson is like 100 years old
< 1293681619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thank the back cover for this exciting alternate history
< 1293681752 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293682067 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293682420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastequotes
< 1293682422 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.19947
< 1293682977 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION WTFs at some of those

< 1293683055 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(23:14:15) A?? ???: ??? - want to write a program in a new language I invented? TOD?
< 1293683055 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(23:17:05) B?? ???: Sure
< 1293683055 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(23:17:53) A?? ???: http://esolangs.org/wiki/TOD
< 1293683055 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(23:20:48) B?? ???: I'M NOT WRITING A PROGRAM IN THAT LANGUAGE
< 1293683108 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293683196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: bahaha
< 1293683202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What's the WTF
< 1293683238 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of them aren't that funny, I guess. Just weird
< 1293683271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's not meant to be funny, it's meant to be amusing.
< 1293683301 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :66)  What else is there to vim besides editing commands?
< 1293683302 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-}
< 1293683342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: basically half our time is spent laughing at Sgeo :)
< 1293683559 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My cat is trying to eat my hand
< 1293684367 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I still interested in Racket despite the lack of hotswapping stuff... I mean, it's theoretically doable, but I see nothing that makes it convenient
< 1293684456 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's got a cool macroexpander
< 1293684504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course people in #racket had no idea what I was talking about
< 1293684517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because hotswapping is a very niche feature?
< 1293684527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I find it likely they know what hotswapping is and you just explained it terribly.
< 1293684558 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it more likely that I got a bad impression based on one person
< 1293684613 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why do you care about hotswapping all of a sudden?
< 1293684637 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always cared about it. It's just that most of the languages I've obsessed over before had it.
< 1293684645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Because he's a moron who has no clue what he likes and basically just grabs onto things that are shiny, criticise things made by people many times more experienced than he is with greater expertise, basde on misconceptions, in here, for us all to see, 24/7.
< 1293684659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Factor doesn't have hotswapping as far as I know.
< 1293684664 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the AW stuff I was working on would have benefitted from it
< 1293684669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody gives a shit.
< 1293684733 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://docs.factorcode.org/content/article-vocabs.refresh.html
< 1293684748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's about as "hotswapping" as Python's reload function.
< 1293684758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have no idea what hotswapping is.
< 1293684879 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's somewhere between what you call "hotswapping" and Python's reload function
< 1293684907 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you consider Erlang to have hotswapping (both of you)?
< 1293684928 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, don't know Erlang that well, but I think so
< 1293685140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Erlang is pretty much _the only_ lang with hotswapping.
< 1293685155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo is presumably planning to write important, long-running network servers -- in which case -- god help us all.
< 1293685157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Please don't.
< 1293685190 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how about a "only-important-to-the-players-of-a-game" long-running network server?
< 1293685222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Perhaps a component of Active Worlds going down for a few minutes will have you reflect on how much of your life you plan to spend obsessing over it.
< 1293685223 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what does Smalltalk count as?
< 1293685670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone in here done Perl 6?
< 1293686013 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really
< 1293686035 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will look at it when they bother finishing it
< 1293686085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the spec is very close to being "final" actually
< 1293686097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just nobody wants to admit it :)
< 1293686447 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I know
< 1293686463 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the thing is damned hard to read
< 1293686468 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sort of assumes you know the history
< 1293686767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yeah :-P
< 1293686775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well it's better than perl 5's spec!
< 1293686778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with such nice properties as existing
< 1293686970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: now let me amuse you, last person who spoke
< 1293686972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: [[On a completely diffrent side note, it might be cool to have a new type of game playable on computer where all things in game are represented with ASCII like the art form just like I demonstrated up above. Imagine ASCII Castlevania, ASCII Mario Bros or ASCII Zelda. LOL just a passing thought.]]
< 1293686995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/132116-porting-the-original-classic-castlevania-to-the-2600/page__view__findpost__p__1593512?s=bcada80a7c4f8d16bdf1b84820d4a2c9 <-- seriously, the guy reinvents NetHack's display system in like 15 lines
< 1293687018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And the ASCII thing was a non Atari related side thought. Like a remake of any general popular game where ALL graphics in game are represented by ASCII only. though in color though where each ASCII character is its own color."
< 1293687019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gahaaha
< 1293687178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: maybe #esoteric should make its own Perl 6, a hodge-podge language consisting of everything useful/fun we can think of golfed to hell
< 1293687257 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would have thought you'd be sleepy by now mr. hird
< 1293687287 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://hackage.haskell.org/package/uAgda-1.0.0.1 interesting
< 1293687293 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahahah
< 1293687308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it's only 5:30 am ... going to bed soon though
< 1293687312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: WHAT'S SO FUNNY LITTLE MAN
< 1293687367 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 ... Ke7
< 1293687369 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and winning with it
< 1293687457 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is turning into elliott 

< 1293687489 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you are not
< 1293687492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: how.
< 1293687497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find the notion offensive
< 1293687498 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293687505 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not going to sleep at decent times
< 1293687528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. That is what defines me.
< 1293687562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's 0:38 in New York. You are ful
< 1293687566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*full of shit if you think that's late.
< 1293687575 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I didn't eat dinner yet
< 1293687585 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And last night, I didn't go to sleep. I was reading about Racket
< 1293687610 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293687640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: IMO, this is the greatest Perl 6 feature: http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/2009/12/19/day-19-whatever/
< 1293687644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It, literally, means anything.
< 1293687668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It is a single character that can do almost anything you want, and whose meaning is completely overridable and context-dependent in every way, having no common properties between them.
< 1293687685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is utterly hilarious (the world's first joke told with a language feature?) and yet beautiful somehow.
< 1293687767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G'night.
< 1293687768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293688349 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293688417 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you figure out this code golf http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?List+of+numbers+to+factor I figured it out maybe I can write 2 hint?
< 1293688489 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293688540 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: does the list of numbers differ between different programs?
< 1293688629 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The list of numbers has to be the specified list in order to solve the problem. You can make up this list of numbers using any algorithm you want to that produces this list.
< 1293688658 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the list of numbers from the sample output is always the list/
< 1293688798 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 hint: * It has something to do with the root directory! * Look at the individual numbers (on the left side) more carefully!
< 1293688923 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea man
< 1293688925 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can also use a embedded solution if you prefer, this is also valid for many problems; but you might prefer not to)
< 1293688981 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you can get down to 27 chars that way :P
< 1293689035 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are right you probably cannot do it that way, but you can try and score anyways, it just won't be the best score.
< 1293689502 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293689528 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293695999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1293696000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293696354 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... IPv4 allocation rate of APNIC has slowed a bit... Currently the pool is at 2.75. I guess it'll pick up after new year...
< 1293696541 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it usually?
< 1293696757 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't looked into that. But the days between xmas and new year tend to be slow anyway...
< 1293696758 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293696806 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293696884 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or then APNIC suprise-allocates around new years, bringing immediate X-day...
< 1293698133 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah... This piece of news gats IPv6 address space size wrong. First it says the number of addresses is 340 undecillion (right), but then it says "which is a 34 followed by 35 zeros". Except that 340 undecillion is 34 followed by _37_ zeros.
< 1293698221 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would that be the same as 340 trillion trillion trillion by any chance?
< 1293698227 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no, that makes no sense
< 1293698281 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, just googled 340 trillion trillion trillion, and the first few hits are about IPv6
< 1293698394 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1293698440 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For every meter I travelled upwards in Second Life, there's an IPv6 address >.>
< 1293698530 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is one IPv6 address for every possible key AES-128 has...
< 1293698720 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW: A while ago I patched git built-in git:// client and server to deal with IPv6 properly and sent the modifications upstream. :-)
< 1293698784 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, you're awesome
< 1293698933 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3
< 1293699093 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically the problem was that neither the client or the server could parse bracket notation properly.
< 1293699635 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1293699652 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much underlying stuff to establish ipv6 connections/
< 1293699670 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can it do ipv6 DNS too?
< 1293700368 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1293700395 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.46.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293700395 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sighs at User Friendly

< 1293700409 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Illiad forgot to put the "This 'toon is a repeat" thing up
< 1293700418 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So now it's displaying pre-Y2k stris
< 1293700420 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strips
< 1293700898 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293701246 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f3b0.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293701278 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1293701307 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1293701938 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so strchr(':') is actually a very bad way to find the port number of an address, if you want IPv6 support
< 1293702326 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293702640 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293703108 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g224201177.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293703496 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :hagb4rd|afk
< 1293703843 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Conservapedia
< 1293703994 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curse those liberals!!
< 1293704065 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL: 8 billion IP addresses.
< 1293704304 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc1-sgyl29-2-0-cust788.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293704326 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see also: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Conservatroll
< 1293705226 0 :Wamanuz4!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293705576 0 :hagb4rd|afk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :hagb4rd
< 1293705839 0 :Wamanuz5!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293705950 0 :Wamanuz4!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293707719 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Notepad++: "Encode in UTF-8 without BOM" should be called "Encode in UTF-8". UTF-8 does not have a BOM.
< 1293707884 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://patrickthomson.tumblr.com/post/2499755681/the-best-debugging-story-ive-ever-heard
< 1293708140 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I not going to sleep?
< 1293708164 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Linda was developed by David Gelernter and Nicholas Carriero at Yale University and is named for Linda Lovelace, an actress in the porn movie Deep Throat, a pun on Ada's tribute to Ada Lovelace[1]."
< 1293708271 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, because you are using your computer?
< 1293709610 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293709691 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1293711764 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1293711804 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293712092 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, down?
< 1293712119 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, no,,
< 1293712441 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Sgeo: Unfortunately, Windows doesn't appear to subscribe to this belief
< 1293712457 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also BOMs are legal if utterly retarded in UTF-8)
< 1293712474 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually have a script to prepend a UTF-8 BOM to deal with retarded programs
< 1293712493 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like some Windows text editors...)
< 1293712554 0 :sftp_!~sftp@79.174.46.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293712563 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1293713585 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1293714600 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so how goes the repair (the server is back up again)
< 1293714613 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I finished it ages ago.
< 1293714691 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ... no... ?
< 1293714702 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you must have lagged out before server saw it
< 1293714711 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the stone I was smelting is all there.
< 1293714713 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, still 5 blocks missing
< 1293714715 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec
< 1293714721 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About 8 blocks.
< 1293714734 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, 8 blocks as cobble, no coal in there
< 1293714744 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gyaaaa
< 1293714745 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh another furnace
< 1293714752 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, there were 8 stone in another furnace
< 1293714757 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293714759 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's mine.
< 1293714768 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this whole former PLT-Scheme looks quite nice
< 1293714779 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't like it's nomenclature
< 1293714780 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, repaired the remaining hole. want the 3 remaining stone?
< 1293714788 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not reall.
< 1293714790 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*really
< 1293714965 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, anyway, I'm sure we all have hidden away chests. But I have some pretty much mcmap-safe hide aways too.
< 1293714974 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't tell you any details
< 1293715004 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming you either embedded the chests in stone to make them hard to see or placed them in the middle of nowhere.
< 1293715032 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, the latter. I have a file with coordinate pairs
< 1293715061 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the hell do you have worth hiding?
< 1293715083 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TNT would seem to be about it.
< 1293715092 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, not TNT no.
< 1293715102 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, see /msg
< 1293715105 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293715116 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT'S THAT YOU SAY? OBSIDIAN?
< 1293715138 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's really not something worth keeping secret.
< 1293715146 0 :sftp_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1293715160 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, meh. Some mystery never hurt
< 1293717705 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, is it down?
< 1293717749 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LUCH
< 1293717751 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*LUNCH
< 1293718661 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-9-117.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293720286 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293720464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:34:17  (also BOMs are legal if utterly retarded in UTF-8)
< 1293720484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Is it really legal if the inventors of UTF-8 will kill you if you do?
< 1293721822 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001f5b00390f-CM001e6b2335dc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293723237 0 :vinu143_!~vinodkama@202.133.49.59 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293723255 0 :vinu143_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bailout
< 1293723265 0 :vinu143_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happily
< 1293723273 0 :vinu143_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hai
< 1293723273 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bail in!
< 1293723275 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly!
< 1293723277 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bai!
< 1293723284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bail sideways!
< 1293723288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ambivalently!
< 1293723291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...blah!
< 1293723297 0 :vinu143_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hellowww
< 1293723328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello world wide web!
< 1293723342 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293723362 0 :vinu143_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott:
< 1293723367 0 :vinu143_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :H r u
< 1293723428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harigo.
< 1293723497 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293723513 0 :Wamanuz5!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1293723528 0 :vinu143_!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1293723624 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mol
< 1293723666 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ecule
< 1293725494 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asses.
< 1293725550 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MOLECULEASSES?  THERE IS NO SUCH WORD
< 1293725686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like big molecule asses and I cannot lie.
< 1293725824 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, still missing one door. where did you put it
< 1293725837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I destroyed exactly one door and put it in the chest.
< 1293725847 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, who has the inner door then?
< 1293725874 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, PH I guess? And he seem to be acting like a 10 year old, so I doubt I'll get that back
< 1293725879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What a stupid question. I'll go grab my telepathy device and figure it out.
< 1293725896 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it was a rhetorical question.
< 1293725950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't think you understand what rhetorical questions are.
< 1293725958 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not have any doors.
< 1293726008 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, also, I'll have you know that I am 22, not 10.
< 1293726011 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so what did you do to the inner door in order to get out?
< 1293726028 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was 22 at it.
< 1293726066 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, waiting for an answer
< 1293726091 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT WAS ALL SUCH A BLUR
< 1293726093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the idea of ageing something.
< 1293726102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except just before you're 70.
< 1293726103 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably PTSD from being kidnapped.
< 1293726114 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, right. You still owe me one iron door.
< 1293726128 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, you're in the wrong here!
< 1293726134 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kidnapping is WRONG!
< 1293726142 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How stupid do you have to be not to understand rhetorical questions?
< 1293726147 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, break in is also wrong
< 1293726172 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, the word you are looking for is not kidnapping. I acted in self defence
< 1293726188 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, BY KIDNAPPING ME!
< 1293726210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: As stupid as Vorpal! (Yes, yes, I got it.)
< 1293726212 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, that was a meeting to foster corporate coöperation, not a break-in!
< 1293726229 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no. By filling up a room in my house. Why did you not use /spawn
< 1293726236 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no it wasn't
< 1293726267 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It WAS!
< 1293726302 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so is that why you changed a sign to read "Vorpal sucks"
< 1293726309 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep!
< 1293726309 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember, that was BEFORE I filled the room
< 1293726317 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a complement in HHI circles!
< 1293726317 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, pull the other one.
< 1293726322 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovers, after all, suck!
< 1293726367 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what was the second text now again?
< 1293726372 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second time you change it
< 1293726375 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :changed*
< 1293726411 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't get a chance, since you messed it up.
< 1293726424 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you changed it a second time.
< 1293726438 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and no I didn't mess it up. It was you who did in the first place
< 1293726461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover sucks.
< 1293726494 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why thank you.
< 1293726522 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so was it you or PH who dug away in the side of a wall of my place? Below boat loop
< 1293726557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What.
< 1293726588 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well there is a hole in a wall above the sign saying "boatloop ^\n\nfarming v"
< 1293726604 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, certainly new as of today
< 1293726610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I am really uninterested in your insane allegations of things I've done; please stop pinging me.
< 1293726618 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I presume it was PH then
< 1293726961 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, gee, thanks for stealing metals too.
< 1293726977 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuh?
< 1293726981 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gave them back.
< 1293726997 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh where? They are not in the chest where they were taken from
< 1293727039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, there is an awful J maze solver on Rosetta Code.
< 1293727051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most important part of the code is an imperative loop.
< 1293727255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293727301 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293727400 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what about all those mushrooms?
< 1293727419 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, I ate them.
< 1293727429 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, wasn't there like 30?
< 1293727435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, they did anagolf at 27C3
< 1293727446 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, OK, let's learn some maths!
< 1293727447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :approve
< 1293727454 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 + 8 = 16!
< 1293727459 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 < 30!
< 1293727470 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so there was 8 in there of each. Right
< 1293727471 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 - 4 = 12
< 1293727482 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't remember how many were in there
< 1293727487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open F,;eval
< 1293727488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What.
< 1293727491 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite different from math
< 1293727520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, now, when can I expect those back? Along with the iron door?
< 1293727533 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, when the cows come home.
< 1293727570 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I see. Well a cow just jumped outside my front door. So I guess now then
< 1293727591 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, that doesn't count
< 1293727611 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh?
< 1293727663 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cows can't count
< 1293727671 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scientific fact
< 1293727699 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, EXACTLY.
< 1293727715 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, alligators always alliterate
< 1293727759 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, there?
< 1293729112 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the HHI PR department is asking questions about the new message at our headquarters.
< 1293730190 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293730565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if I name Ponzi Scheme's editor Madoff, will you arrest me for being an unlicensed punster?
< 1293730979 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g224201105.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293731320 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293731668 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293731895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293731908 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293731960 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293732933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish the button on this thing was easier to press ... enabled tap to click for now.
< 1293733278 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.theonion.com/articles/internet-explorer-makes-desperate-overture-to-beco,6338/
< 1293733354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293733417 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293733642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   2.210 +[19:45:51] < fizzie> personally when I find enough money I don't have any use for I'll buy these. so I consider my usage just some kind of far-fetched "advance-preview" thing.
< 1293733649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So did you ever buy C99 and C++?
< 1293733755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293733797 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293733802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293733890 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293733896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   2.310 +[20:32:44] < fizzie> freaky. I've been a slackware-user since when I found linux, but recently I've been thinking about converting to a debianist. installed debian on this ppc-macintosh I have here.
< 1293733898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LORE AND HISTORY
< 1293734347 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which year is it from?
< 1293735210 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293735263 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293735390 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1293735424 0 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293735586 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293735832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bahahahahaha Minecraft.
< 1293735841 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOXES!
< 1293735859 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the official working title for what I have been calling netcraft)
< 1293735867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: That ... worst ... ever ... title
< 1293735879 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty epic so far; it uses vertex shaders to make the world "round"
< 1293735893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Minecraft may spill into Agora for a few message Real Soon Now (or B)
< 1293735902 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm on Holiday
< 1293735903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I apologise!
< 1293735912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Bah, Agora is like a magnet.
< 1293735916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't take a holiday from a magnet.
< 1293736081 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you have a magnetic monopoly
< 1293737209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293737257 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293737300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293737353 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293737515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMMTI GEOMTRYOMFEOGP
< 1293738116 0 :Wamanuz3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293738328 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I just got the pun
< 1293738330 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're horrible
< 1293738353 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're welcome
< 1293738519 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293738523 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :magnetic monopoly should be a game
< 1293738544 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293738896 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might raise a bit of a trademark issue
< 1293738936 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293738944 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats FireFly -----###

< 1293738950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1293738962 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S TRADITIONAL
< 1293738967 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh
< 1293738967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: cruelty!
< 1293738983 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good evening anyway
< 1293739563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, apparently my anagolf challenge is rather famous ...
< 1293739607 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link?
< 1293739622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Just the "minimal Scheme interpreter" one; it's famous for being a complete and utter failure.
< 1293739635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not only is one of the example programs invalid (unmatched parens), but the output is incredibly trivial to just embed.
< 1293739671 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1293739739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: In which dirt and gravel also become glass: http://abemiller.imgur.com/778N2
< 1293739848 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, clearly not gravel.
< 1293739880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay.
< 1293740988 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grievously groveling gravel
< 1293740998 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you promised me Minecraft in Agora
< 1293741009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What.
< 1293741011 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I object
< 1293741019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Oh, no, I didn't mean like that.
< 1293741025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I promised nothing?
< 1293741025 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : coppro: Minecraft may spill into Agora for a few message Real Soon Now (or B)
< 1293741030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pinged coppro once.
< 1293741031 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1293741034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, I mean Minecraft-related matters.
< 1293741039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's complicated.
< 1293741070 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION recalls Agora had some geography-like game at one time

< 1293741081 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm was it an Agora map
< 1293741090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: COME BACK AND FIND OUT
< 1293741096 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek
< 1293741116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: we're fluffy :<
< 1293741149 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT DO YOU TASTE GOOD WITH KETCHUP?
< 1293741193 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly a more refined sauce
< 1293741203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes
< 1293741212 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... tempting
< 1293741326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: or you could be like michael norrish; just post occasionally and have people gawp :D
< 1293741337 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... even more tempting
< 1293741398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: in fact, the rarer it is, the larger a spectacle you get
< 1293741497 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you realize that logically this implies that i should wait as long as possible
< 1293741530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, no, it ends after a while
< 1293741535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: at least for the first post
< 1293741538 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1293741539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody knows who the fuck you are :D
< 1293741556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except us, obviously
< 1293741557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably goethe since he's older than time itself
< 1293741557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SORRY *G.
< 1293741562 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well michael norrish would know.  maybe i could get a chain effect.
< 1293741591 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think goethe is on this channel to hear you?
< 1293741594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Michael Norrish is the most prolific of the people who never post :-P
< 1293741607 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...how logical.
< 1293741626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: IIRC his second-last (memorable, at least) post was dissing Spivak pronouns, and the last was denouncing nomic that's based on scams and rule trickery as boring, vs. one grounded in politics
< 1293741634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess he only posts when he's sick of our shit :)
< 1293741651 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1293741652 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk
< 1293742090 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293742218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Realisation: All OS X package managers suck.
< 1293742238 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1293742239 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also
< 1293742243 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bedroom is farting
< 1293742254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I thought you were going to say "also, OS X sucks" but ... what.
< 1293742255 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@75-174-217-205.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293742267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll start maintaining my own packages with stow.
< 1293742273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't sound like a half-bad idea actually.
< 1293742273 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something in my bedroom is making farting noises
< 1293742287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, all the OS X package managers compile anyway ... yes, I think I will do that.
< 1293742314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I can make stow use hardlinks instead of symlinks.
< 1293742381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gnu.org/software/stow/ TOTALLY EASY TO FIND TARBALLS FROM THIS PAGE
< 1293742426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is stow even *maintained*?
< 1293742435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last release is from 2002
< 1293742553 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been stowed away
< 1293742917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wish pikhq was here, he knows about stow
< 1293743022 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yes, witnesses to the Jehovahs incident"
< 1293743038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: wat
< 1293743051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: have you used gnu stow
< 1293743057 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No
< 1293743063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: use it so i can ask you questions about it
< 1293743070 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nuh-uh
< 1293743097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: plz
< 1293743154 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nuh-uh
< 1293743159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :{
< 1293743161 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the curious incident of the Jehovah in the night-time
< 1293743332 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1293743584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the FHS is so restrictive
< 1293743591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/local is overloaded :(
< 1293743601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/local is "shit the sysadmin wrote" but *also* "shit the sysadmin installed"
< 1293743606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the latter, something like gnu stow is useful for managing it
< 1293743612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the former, obviously you don't want stow trashing your shit
< 1293743621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it will if you use the same directory
< 1293743623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ...?
< 1293743702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you, random person I'm going to annoy. solve my problem
< 1293743733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   2.970 +[23:18:07] < fizzie> now that was just plain wrong. it's like killing twelve live kittens and stuffing a pentium inside each one.
< 1293743784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   2.984 +[23:43:14] < fizzie> I went to see the 'spirited away' movie today, and they showed the trailer for a new star trek film, 'nemesis', before it.
< 1293743784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   2.985 +[23:43:43] < fizzie> looked like lot of explosions and spaceflight, and then few people/things kissing in between.
< 1293743788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these logs are the best ever
< 1293744036 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was this when #esoteric was really #fizzie?
< 1293744069 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no
< 1293744085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, I'm just only quoting fizzie.
< 1293744088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone else in 2002 is boring.
< 1293744122 0 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293744130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  2.1339 +[02:50:11] < mooz_> am talkink
< 1293744130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  2.1340 +[02:51:30] < mooz_> sadly, pitr hasn't had much of a role in UF lately. one could even say the standard of the comic has lowered...
< 1293744130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  2.1341 +[02:54:25] < navigator> i haven't read it for about a couple of months
< 1293744132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  2.1342 +[02:54:37] < navigator> it was getting from silly to idiotic
< 1293744134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  2.1343 +[02:54:46] < mooz_> quite
< 1293744136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lesson that Sgeo has still not learned
< 1293744175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  2.1380 +[03:16:13] < fizzie> colin is my primary computer, it's "about the first genuinely useful" thing here, as ford says about colin in the book.
< 1293744175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  2.1381 +[03:16:32] < fizzie> random is a girl, and macs are of course girls.
< 1293744190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  2.1392 +[03:17:46] < fizzie> zem is a laptop, so it somewhat resembles a mattress.
< 1293744195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Some lines snipped.)
< 1293744199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This naming logic is horrific, fizzi.
< 1293744201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fizzie.
< 1293744218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  2.1395 +[03:18:30] < fizzie> and epun is really insignificant, and in reality here epun is a C128.   2.1398 +[03:19:16] < fizzie> yup. I'm trying to write an ipv6 stack for it, therefore it has a name :p
< 1293744365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is anyone FHS-savvy :)
< 1293744379 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's not getting from anything to anything right now.
< 1293744387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No, it's just bad.
< 1293744394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Iliad is dying of cancer or something.
< 1293744406 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..?
< 1293744423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Or something :P
< 1293744484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293744527 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293744531 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Illiad's a plagiarist? :(
< 1293744602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What?
< 1293744611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I think I'll stow in /opt:
< 1293744617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The directories /opt/bin, /opt/doc, /opt/include, /opt/info, /opt/lib, and /opt/man are reserved for local system administrator use. Packages may provide "front-end" files intended to be placed in (by linking or copying) these reserved directories by the local system administrator, but must function normally in the absence of these reserved directories."
< 1293744620 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_Friendly#Plagiarism
< 1293744635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I am not sure what to name the stow directory...
< 1293744656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/opt/stow isn't strictly correct, especially as ... oh fuck it, I'll go with /opt.
< 1293744700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Hardly a worthy accusation considering all the punchlines are tired, tired lines heard a billion times before.
< 1293744905 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what really has issues?
< 1293744908 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Natioal Geographic
< 1293744953 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*National
< 1293744969 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That may have been funnier if it were a bit longer before you said it
< 1293744983 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, I should not be giving advice on humor
< 1293744984 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably
< 1293744990 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, hm.
< 1293744990 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was supposed to be a lame pun
< 1293744992 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so me
< 1293744993 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*meh
< 1293744997 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, god.
< 1293745006 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swatpans coppro --==\#/

< 1293745050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes towards compiling GHC

< 1293745052 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like quadriplegic
< 1293745059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e.
< 1293745061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. Download GHC.
< 1293745063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. Download GHC's source.
< 1293745067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. Use (1) to build (2).
< 1293745070 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what is a nice sound?
< 1293745072 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an hourglass
< 1293745078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4. Call up Douglas Hofstadter -- tell him you just did something that'll BLOW HIS MIND.
< 1293745084 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it
< 1293745102 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do
< 1293745108 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's funny
< 1293745121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Sgeo means he doesn't get coppro's joke.
< 1293745130 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it wasn't a joke
< 1293745135 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't either

< 1293745138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably coppro was referring to my line, then.
< 1293745149 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was
< 1293745155 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the hourglass comment was no joke
< 1293745168 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the quiet flowing sound of an hourglass
< 1293745171 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't quite get elliott's thing either
< 1293745178 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION was given an hourglass for his birthday

< 1293745195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Douglas Hofstadter's career is built on making recursion sound like an amazing thing that solves all questions of consciousness.
< 1293745213 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That man is strange
< 1293745218 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and not just in a looping fashion)
< 1293745227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to understand consciousness you must first understand consciousness
< 1293745250 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't most compilers compiled by themselves these days?
< 1293745250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hofstadter seems like an intelligent guy who should have really been stopped from writing GEB.
< 1293745258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You have a strange definition of most ...
< 1293745259 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The funny thing about his writing is that he seems to have a reasonable grasp at mathematics, except it just sort of goes out the door and becomes a weird mysticism when he mentions strange loops
< 1293745263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC, GHC.
< 1293745265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's about it.
< 1293745266 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clnag
< 1293745270 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*clang
< 1293745270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the Lisps too, but they're weird.
< 1293745274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no, clang compiles with GCC too.
< 1293745278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC compiles only with GHC.
< 1293745280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC compiles only with GCC.
< 1293745295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SBCL compiles with CMUCL too, even, so even as a Lisp it doesn't qualify.
< 1293745299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect SBCL could compile CMUCL, as well.
< 1293745301 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you could build a working GCC with a few other compilers
< 1293745311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Well, it's dark magic.
< 1293745316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: And nobody actually does afaik.
< 1293745321 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ./configure -no-bootstrap
< 1293745326 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that
< 1293745332 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone done diverse double-compiling on GCC?
< 1293745339 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :double-compiling?
< 1293745340 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you go about doing that?
< 1293745341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It is one of the examples in the paper.
< 1293745343 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiling GCC once is bad enough
< 1293745343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read it
< 1293745347 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1293745353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Diverse Double-Compiling is the name for the technique to circumvent Trusting Trust.
< 1293745361 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAIT WHAT
< 1293745363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It lets you figure out if a system has been compromised in that way.
< 1293745372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: See http://www.dwheeler.com/trusting-trust/.
< 1293745501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking for path to top of build tree... dyld: Library not loaded: /opt/local/lib/libgmp.10.dylib
< 1293745502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by depends on xcode
< 1293745506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they meant depends on xcode and macports
< 1293745521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiling GHC is a bitch :-(
< 1293745563 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing about the trusting trust attack is it is so difficult to actually pull
< 1293745587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well, if the compiler gets modified too much, then the heuristic might fail
< 1293745595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it was more practical with 70s era compilers
< 1293745599 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1293745599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: coppro: well, if the compiler gets modified too much, then the heuristic might fail
< 1293745603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but note that if the original guy is still around
< 1293745605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he can easily fix this
< 1293745609 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what I mean is
< 1293745631 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are trying to backdoor every system as described in the paper
< 1293745648 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the amount of extra stuff you need to backdoor with your compromised compiler is very high
< 1293745648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you mean in the diverse doublecompiling paper?
< 1293745651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't actually read it yet
< 1293745668 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's the part describing a trusting trust attack
< 1293745668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: really, Trusting Trust is more theory than practice -- I don't know of anyone who isn't ken that's done it, and ken is basically a god
< 1293745673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: right.
< 1293745677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well, it's an academic paper.
< 1293745680 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1293745686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the point is to prove "even when all seems hopeless, we can still trust computers" :)
< 1293745693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you're willing to trust the second compiler.
< 1293745696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could always write your own.
< 1293745701 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the thing is, in practice, you'd need to backdoor the compiler in such a way as to at least backdoor every other compiler
< 1293745706 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who says that I can trust the hardware?
< 1293745710 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is non-trivial
< 1293745714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: compile the compiler on another machine, duh
< 1293745727 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but for instance, let's say you backdoored GCC
< 1293745735 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would then need to make sure it could backdoor clang when it was compiling clang
< 1293745742 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as well as, of course, backdooring GCC)
< 1293745744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the point is a backdoor on one system
< 1293745754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well, at the minimum, you need a binary of a compiler you trust.
< 1293745764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You can always write your own compiler, in machine code, from scratch, in theory.
< 1293745767 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: to perform the attack?
< 1293745771 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to defend?
< 1293745774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: to defend
< 1293745781 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about attacking
< 1293745784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: oh, were you saying that attacking is impractical?
< 1293745786 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1293745786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, i totally agree
< 1293745812 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defending, yes, needs to start with something trusted
< 1293745813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh, the other binary depends on the macports lib too
< 1293745824 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it could well be a machine-code compiler for something simple
< 1293745853 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. a machine code assembler makes an assembly C subset compiler makes a full C compiler makes everything else
< 1293745922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, my inst(1) program might actually come in useful.
< 1293745934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For compiling stuff into /opt/stow/foo.
< 1293746342 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293746367 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d932942f.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293746455 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293746563 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably go eat breakfast
< 1293746568 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293746633 0 :BMG!~behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293746634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Um, it's 17:00.
< 1293746656 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't left my bed since... maybe 7AM or so?/
< 1293746661 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that wasn't to eat
< 1293746662 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293746730 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1293746733 0 :BMG!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293746835 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1293746855 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i notified sgeo very often having problems with the very basic sustainment functions :)
< 1293746897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :verily
< 1293746899 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My only problems are with sleeping and eating!
< 1293746924 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so breathing works fine..last but not least
< 1293746929 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far
< 1293747054 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the bad sides in IPv4 depletion is GCN. Forum trolls and wiki vandals are absolutely going to love it...
< 1293747169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: gcn?
< 1293747181 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, CGN
< 1293747204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: lol you would hate how old this clang is
< 1293747212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ clang --version
< 1293747212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple clang version 1.6 (tags/Apple/clang-70)
< 1293747222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: apple can't even ship the latest version of the products they fund :)
< 1293747261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293747376 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293747454 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCN?
< 1293747458 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1293747462 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CGN?
< 1293747471 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Carrier Grade NAT.
< 1293747519 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that?
< 1293747524 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remind me
< 1293747589 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NAT by ISP.
< 1293747612 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, rings no bells
< 1293747631 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what NAT is (and why it is bad)?
< 1293747636 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20000users 1 IP
< 1293747637 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1293747648 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm dumb in IP matters
< 1293747649 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much...
< 1293747654 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also hah http://politics.slashdot.org/story/10/12/30/213246/Democrats-Crowdsourcing-To-Vote-Palin-In-Primaries?from=rss
< 1293747658 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1293747661 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait I thought IPv6 got rid of this
< 1293747675 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every machine/location pair will effectively have its own IP
< 1293747680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: thus "IPv4 depletion"
< 1293747680 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, yes. IPv6 hasn't been widely deployed yet
< 1293747684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also ipv6 has some nat i think
< 1293747701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that article is everything wrong with ameirca
< 1293747702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*america
< 1293747705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no not nearly everything
< 1293747707 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, every _machine/location pair_? Not just every machine? Hmm
< 1293747707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the voting system
< 1293747708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely
< 1293747710 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1293747712 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that makes sense
< 1293747712 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes
< 1293747730 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: individual organizations will get /64s
< 1293747736 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where organization might mean your house
< 1293747748 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other half is allocated based on your MAC address
< 1293747754 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so as to obviate DHCP)
< 1293747771 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since every computer can theoretically say "give me this IP" and it will be available)
< 1293747797 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd vote in the Republican primary against Palin (unless the only other serious contender was Huckabee)
< 1293747808 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, IMS (3G/4G IP Multimedia(?) Service) is IPv6-only and assigns /64 per handset.
< 1293747810 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if a computer lies about its MAC address?
< 1293747848 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: then you might get collisions
< 1293747870 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's DAD (Duplicate Address Detection).
< 1293747902 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also privacy extensions that make the computer hop the host part of the address.
< 1293747939 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's worse: Palin or Huckabee?
< 1293747952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your mother.
< 1293747978 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deceased people really don't make great presidents
< 1293747990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They make the best presidents!
< 1293748028 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Palin... Huckabee might be crazy, but at least he might be somewhere near competent...
< 1293748075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I need to amend my GHC compilation process.
< 1293748078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. Install GHC.
< 1293748089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. Install tons of Haskell libraries and programs to enable building all the GHC documentation.
< 1293748090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. Download GHC.
< 1293748095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4. Compile GHC with GHC.
< 1293748096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5. Install GHC.
< 1293748099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6. Uninstall the other GHC.
< 1293748101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7. Why god why
< 1293748165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For building library documentation, you'll need Haddock [6].  To build
< 1293748165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the compiler documentation, you need a good DocBook XML toolchain and
< 1293748165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dblatex.
< 1293748168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT I DON'T WANNA
< 1293748281 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why are you doing it that way for ghc?
< 1293748296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because GHC depends on GHC.
< 1293748299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC depends on recent GHC, even.
< 1293748301 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, couldn't you just get the haskell platform thingy?
< 1293748315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I doubt that thinks it's installed in /opt, and GHC is not very relocatable.
< 1293748327 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh, is this for kitten?
< 1293748334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Plus the platform is on GHC 6.12; I want the new, shiny, breaks-everything GHC 7.0.1.
< 1293748339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, this is for my OS X box.
< 1293748343 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293748345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is literally no good OS X package manager.
< 1293748354 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homebrew isn't good?
< 1293748355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried MacPorts, Fink, and Homebrew. They are all terrible.
< 1293748373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm just compiling stuff myself and using 2002-vintage GNU Stow.
< 1293748382 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so what is are the major news in ghc 7?
< 1293748387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What.
< 1293748391 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is are
< 1293748393 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS ARE
< 1293748395 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you said it breaks everything
< 1293748402 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, oops
< 1293748408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has more bunnies.
< 1293748422 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is what you get for changing a sentence midway and then not proof reading)
< 1293748431 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All that I was is lost to the waves. I was is lost. was is.
< 1293748439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293748495 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think elliott's fleeing me
< 1293748604 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293748792 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293748798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess my wifi password
< 1293748842 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeosucks
< 1293748863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: nope, although good idea
< 1293748872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually opticiansareactuallybearsindisguiseokay. based on a true story.
< 1293748900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scenes from 2002:
< 1293748901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  2.1712 +[02:47:45] < navigator> hey have any ascii anime porn links?
< 1293748928 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they can barely see?
< 1293748968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  2.1749 +[17:03:19] < navigator> i need either somebody to help me with dialup ppp from solaris or somebody to give me a lot of drugs
< 1293748968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  2.1750 +[17:04:32] < fizzie> heh, I was actually thinking of trying solaris/sparc too.
< 1293748968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  2.1751 +[17:04:51] < fizzie> maybe I should restock my supplies of drugs before I try that, then.
< 1293749009 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, I ate!
< 1293749018 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the major change seems to be haskell2010 support?
< 1293749029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: CONGRATULATIONS
< 1293749032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: probably. who cares. it's shiny & new
< 1293749051 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes but I was wondering what the shiny and new parts were (found the release notes)
< 1293749053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm starting to see the use of a package management system ... tempted to write installation shell scripts now
< 1293749071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can do /usr/local/install/ghc
< 1293749078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'll make /opt/stow/ghc-7.0.1 for me
< 1293749086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: higher version number than previous versions.
< 1293749124 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err, package management system, you mean, like those distros use? If so, how long have you been thinking they were useless? (I completely missed this)
< 1293749137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i was half-joking
< 1293749142 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, phew
< 1293749146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do believe most of what package managers do is useless though :)
< 1293749172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's not @'s cryptography-based API-based ultra-general system, then it better be Kitten's basically-no-runtime-dependencies minimalist extravaganza
< 1293749203 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1293749221 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, checksumming the API sounds cool.
< 1293749243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i stole it from tuomov :)
< 1293749282 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but a bit tricky for the general case of a distro. Since you need to handle everything from C API (how do you extract /that/? Checksumming AST of headers or something? Remember macros and so on)
< 1293749285 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it'll actually be /usr/local/share/install/ghc-7.0.1... and then I can say "install ghc" and it'll run that in a temporary directory for me
< 1293749287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with any luck!
< 1293749289 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ghc 7 it has a COMPLETELY NEW type inference engine thingamajig
< 1293749300 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, ah cool
< 1293749300 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :win 2
< 1293749329 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hackiki + Node.js: Best idea ever?
< 1293749348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh dear god.
< 1293749358 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and that is just the ABI, not the API
< 1293749371 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, since the API would include *behaviour* too
< 1293749381 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently the new thing supports stuff like interactions between GADT:s and other type-system features much better than before, and adds stuff like flexible kinding
< 1293749397 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what is node.js?
< 1293749423 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, heh
< 1293749424 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, server-side Javascript
< 1293749448 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293749459 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Server-side" is a bad name for it.
< 1293749461 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds crazy
< 1293749473 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Node.js is to JavaScript as CPython is to Python.
< 1293749473 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :istr ghc 7 includes the llvm backend too
< 1293749494 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, is the filename node.js (if so, what executes that?)
< 1293749499 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, wow
< 1293749504 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for javascript?
< 1293749507 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1293749518 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Like all other JavaScript projects, it has the worst name it could possibly have.
< 1293749532 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia: "Node.js is an evented I/O framework for the V8 JavaScript engine on Unix-like platforms. It is intended for writing scalable network programs ..."
< 1293749556 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, which js environment does it call out to for stuff it can't compile (assuming the analogy of cython works on that level)
< 1293749558 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, isn't V8 the Chrome thing?
< 1293749578 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, that doesn't sound like cython for js at all
< 1293749579 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, yes.
< 1293749595 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, CPython. Not Cython.
< 1293749596 0 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293749596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293749600 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just you wait until I implement @'s Javascript engine, I'll show you all.
< 1293749602 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh misread
< 1293749604 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1293749668 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does ghc no longer depend on gmp?
< 1293749709 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: no, I don't think it doesn't
< 1293749721 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm.
< 1293749724 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess os x ships with it then
< 1293749747 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads DS9's article on M-A

< 1293749751 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, was that double negative intended, or was it just an error on your side?
< 1293749756 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Changelings aren't the only ones in the Dominion?
< 1293749776 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: facepalm
< 1293749778 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes :)
< 1293749786 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well it probably does, since iirc gcc depends on mpfr which depends on gmp.
< 1293749796 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah. but this is apple, so who knows.
< 1293749809 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't like calling it "server-side JavaScript", because that's used to distinguish it from in-browser JavaScript, but there's nothing about Node that necessitates writing server apps.
< 1293749816 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, is that "yes" the logical "at least one of the alternatives is true"?
< 1293749819 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their unix development story is anything but logical
< 1293749834 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i.e. I'm pretty sure gmp is still used by ghc
< 1293749838 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, fair enough
< 1293749840 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, ah
< 1293749856 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I have a bootstrapping problem with the stow package
< 1293749864 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, GNU stow!?
< 1293749867 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes :-)
< 1293749879 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, didn't you say it sucked?
< 1293749882 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, get with the picture, he's been talking about it nonstop
< 1293749883 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anything I wrote for the purpose would basically be a reimplementation, so I'll use GNU's finest 500-line Perl script to do the job
< 1293749892 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it sucks. but I don't want to fuck around with FUSE and Gregor's cunionfs on OS X .
< 1293749896 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unionfs is linux-only.
< 1293749900 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: nonstop?
< 1293749903 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ive mentioned it like thrice
< 1293749904 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I've
< 1293749907 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keyboard adjustment period ...
< 1293749918 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, only 500 lines? isn't that 10x shorter than gnu's hello world? :)
< 1293749922 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, speaking of keyboards. How is the air keyboard?
< 1293749927 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, and is it full size?
< 1293749954 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that stow sounds like what macports does with installation
< 1293749961 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It is just as nice as every other Apple keyboard (i.e. perfectly decent if you're okay with a short-key-travel scissor switch; in that area, they are perfectly high quality); and yes, it is completely full size.
< 1293749970 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, apart from the arrow keys. but they're not full-sized on other apple laptops, either.
< 1293749975 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even i think on the mini apple keyboard
< 1293749977 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293749990 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1293749990 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: one annoyance is that Fn is to the left of Ctrl.
< 1293749998 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which any god-fearing American can see is an abomination.
< 1293749999 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, full size F keys?
< 1293750014 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, strange for a laptop
< 1293750015 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: full-width, yes; about half as high, but really, what laptop doesn't have shrinked F keys?
< 1293750023 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, indeed
< 1293750039 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they don't do Fn by default, though, they do brighten/dim display, expose, volume, blah blah blah, you have to Fn+ to get F-keys
< 1293750042 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, also arrow keys are normally shrunk as well. Well not on all, but most
< 1293750048 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno fi that's OS X or the hardware
< 1293750048 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*if
< 1293750053 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but F keys rarely do anything on OS X anyway
< 1293750056 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293750070 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, might be an issue in minecraft (F5 and so on)
< 1293750088 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. you just have to hold fn. and sometimes fn-shift- to bypass the *other* meaning :)
< 1293750108 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, they have menings on fn- too?
< 1293750116 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, they do whatever that F key would normally do.
< 1293750123 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually nothing, but still
< 1293750147 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh which of them does something like that?
< 1293750156 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that application specific?
< 1293750158 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think f11
< 1293750163 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup
< 1293750167 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, and what it is?
< 1293750169 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F11 increases volume one notch (har har notch)
< 1293750171 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in
< 1293750172 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not F11
< 1293750179 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the key labeled F11 in small, with a big audio symbol in main
< 1293750184 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fn+F11 hides all windows and shows desktop, like F11 does
< 1293750187 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293750193 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fn+Shift+F11 just sends F11 to the app, which is what you need for MC!
< 1293750208 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody seems to have figured that out because all os x minecraft screenshots appear to be maximised only
< 1293750228 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I wonder what would happen if the app made a difference between shift-f11 and f11
< 1293750249 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: um. it would break and apple wouldn't care, like usual.
< 1293750253 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1293750263 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what kind of app would do that anyway :)
< 1293750277 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, one written for non-apple?
< 1293750313 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yes, it sucks. but I don't want to fuck around with FUSE and Gregor's cunionfs on OS X .
< 1293750320 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last I checked, FUSE on Apple was no problem.
< 1293750321 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: would you use an app that assigns things to both F11 and Shift+F11?
< 1293750338 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it isn't, but it's still a thing you have to download etc
< 1293750344 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't trust you :-)
< 1293750376 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I wouldn't use that as the main criteria for the program if there didn't exist an in other aspects comparable alternative
< 1293750422 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/sh -e
< 1293750422 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pkg=$(basename $0)
< 1293750422 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curl -O http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/stow/$pkg.tar.gz
< 1293750424 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tar xzf $pkg.tar.gz
< 1293750426 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cd $pkg
< 1293750427 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would live with it, and if used too often I would complain a bit about it
< 1293750428 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./configure --prefix=/opt
< 1293750430 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make install prefix=/opt/stow/$pkg
< 1293750432 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/opt/stow/$pkg/bin/stow --dir=/opt/stow --target=/opt -v $pkg
< 1293750434 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if i can make this shorter, it's ugly.
< 1293750435 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since it is rather awkward to press)
< 1293750470 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, have you picked a name for your computer yet?
< 1293750484 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Nope. It's still Elliott-Hirds-MacBook-Air.
< 1293750489 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Thanks, Apple.)
< 1293750497 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION misread that as Elliott-Ehirds

< 1293750506 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: ... you must change its name
< 1293750513 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I just can't think to what. :-)
< 1293750517 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, so what is $pkg typically?
< 1293750518 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: It's kind of comical how long my shell prompts are.
< 1293750522 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: stow-1.3.3, in this case :P
< 1293750536 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I just kept typing stow-1.3.3 over and over and I thought god I hope they never release a new stow version.
< 1293750544 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still can't get over the fact that this computer refused to let me use it until it took a picture of me.
< 1293750553 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O
< 1293750555 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it what?
< 1293750560 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: To set the account picture.
< 1293750565 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, maybe if I selected to choose from the photo gallery I could have picked some stock thing.
< 1293750574 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I hope so
< 1293750575 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I was too lazy to, and subjected myself to its lens.
< 1293750589 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I technically cannot prove it did not immediately send it to Apple. :p
< 1293750599 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It also wanted to be internet-connected by that point.)
< 1293750603 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, hrrm
< 1293750626 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(To probe my Apple ID out of me.)
< 1293750633 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means apple now have your soul
< 1293750637 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also asked what I'd be using the computer for, I think.
< 1293750643 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, "apple id"?
< 1293750644 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I find that very probable.
< 1293750650 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, as in an apple.com account.
< 1293750658 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, do you actually need that?
< 1293750668 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think it offered to let you register one if you don't have one. :p
< 1293750676 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, and was there no "no thanks"?
< 1293750678 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's possible to skip that first-time application but I don't know how.
< 1293750681 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google actually do much of the same thing when you set up an android phone
< 1293750684 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't know, I didn't try, since I already have one.
< 1293750693 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293750704 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evil
< 1293750708 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of them
< 1293750713 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"give us all your accounts and passwords, we won't be evil. we promise."
< 1293750765 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only a matter of time until google reveal themselves as a 10-year massive identity theft plot and/or destroy the world
< 1293750772 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: to be fair, the Apple procedure, while annoying, isn't all that intrusive, since they *already* have all my details and the fact that I own an Air by virtue of ... it being bought
< 1293750801 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you could have bought it over counter, would it have asked the same then?
< 1293750815 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, and then they wouldn't have the details (at least if you paid with cache)
< 1293750819 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cash*)
< 1293750846 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cache as a token of exchange.
< 1293750847 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, perhaps, sure. But who pays ~£1.5k in cash?
< 1293750852 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I approve. Please develop.
< 1293750858 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well, SRAM is rather expensive
< 1293750877 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, hm true :P
< 1293750909 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (Answer: People who voted for Ron Paul.)
< 1293750915 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although they probably try and pay in gold first.)
< 1293750954 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, republicans in other words?
< 1293750985 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Uh.
< 1293750998 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Please try and explain to Vorpal the vast, vast chasm that exists between "Republican" and "voted for Ron Paul".
< 1293751010 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Swedish has words to describe such subtleties that far right on the spectrum.
< 1293751017 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's ron paul and who's republican?
< 1293751023 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1293751032 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their word for "right-wing authoritarian nutcase" is "social democrat".
< 1293751061 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, isn't it that Ron Paul wants rich people to do whatever the hell they like, while Republicans want them to do whatever the hell God likes?
< 1293751149 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so he is extremely right wing
< 1293751158 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ron Paul is a libertarian.
< 1293751182 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He thinks the gold standard is a stonking good idea, he likes giving the states lots of power and the federal government very little,
< 1293751196 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait
< 1293751198 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's a conservative Christian but doesn't try and legislate this in his policies -- and, despite being a complete and utter right-wing nutjob --
< 1293751204 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he managed to be saner than all the other Republican candidates.
< 1293751204 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, suuuure
< 1293751205 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0xFA1L
< 1293751210 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: This is because America is fucked up.
< 1293751212 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't BitCoins gold-standard-esque, or am I missing something?
< 1293751212 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I did not fall for that one
< 1293751216 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it valid in C?
< 1293751217 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Fall for what?
< 1293751220 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything I said was factual.
< 1293751227 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is, of course, a right-wing nutjob.
< 1293751236 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you really have to vote for a Republican ...
< 1293751265 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, pretty much the only respectable US politicians are Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul, and the only sane respectable US politician is Dennis Kucinich. But at least he's respectable.
< 1293751265 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, so he is more left that most republicans?
< 1293751268 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or more right?
< 1293751275 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's not even left vs. right here.
< 1293751279 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Republicans don't even fit on the spectrum.
< 1293751282 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh, it's the other axis?
< 1293751284 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293751286 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's neither!
< 1293751299 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you thoroughly confused me
< 1293751302 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you think is the computational class of [[Memfractal]]?
< 1293751319 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ron Paul is very much on the economic deregulation end and the social liberties end, yes. So right-wing. And this would be a terrible thing for America.
< 1293751329 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Republicans you can't even consistently place, they're just smack bang at the crazy end.
< 1293751334 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it a cube.
< 1293751340 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you're at the crazy end, the other positions don't even matter any more.
< 1293751342 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, hm
< 1293751344 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're just crazy.
< 1293751420 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what's the return status of "x=$(foo)"
< 1293751423 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the return status of foo?
< 1293751426 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do I have to consult $?
< 1293751430 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well, they do have the consistent "death to poor people" of the right.
< 1293751438 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, that depends
< 1293751457 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what
< 1293751460 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, local x=$(foo) will give you return status of local
< 1293751471 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the same applies for export
< 1293751477 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol, sh.
< 1293751489 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, but on it's own, then yes should be the return status of foo
< 1293751502 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you think is the computational class of [[Memfractal]]?
< 1293751508 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, anyway the same applies for $? when it comes to local/export
< 1293751527 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so at least that is consistent
< 1293751527 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What do *you* think is the computational class of [[Memfractal]]? :)
< 1293751689 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, hm I wonder if you can write any shell script as a single expression? If you could handle that way
< 1293751699 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ( x )
< 1293751700 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loops you could do with recursion
< 1293751714 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well no I meant as in no ; or newline kind of sense
< 1293751724 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval '...' :-P
< 1293751728 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is Memfractal?
< 1293751728 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293751738 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, okay, sure, but that is not the spirit of what I'm wondering about :P
< 1293751748 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you can do if else by using || and &&
< 1293751755 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you can't
< 1293751763 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x&&y)||z fails if y fails
< 1293751763 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I don't know. You can have infinite memory but only access by fractal and only enter the block in four directions. I don't know how well you can make the program make a decision in any other way.
< 1293751769 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: See esolang wiki.
< 1293751770 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fails as in works improperly
< 1293751777 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, depends on order of || and && of course
< 1293751784 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you need || first
< 1293751786 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1293751790 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not 100% sure)
< 1293751794 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (x||y)&&z -- y succeeds, z rus
< 1293751795 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*runs
< 1293751797 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i still here?
< 1293751800 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: no
< 1293751819 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x||(y;false))&&z would work, but you lose the error code obviously
< 1293751857 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, hm. Perhaps it is still enough to express stuff in. And loops are easy: exec $0 other args
< 1293751907 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr
< 1293751908 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ln -s /opt/stow/$pkg/bin/stow /opt/bin
< 1293751912 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hack from the end of my stow build script)
< 1293751913 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work
< 1293751928 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's meant to put a temporary stow, so that build(1) can do
< 1293751935 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote something about computational class on it.
< 1293751939 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stow -v $(basename $pkg)
< 1293751940 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have it stow stow
< 1293751944 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it complains about a conflict
< 1293751965 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What might be the minimum amount of things to add to make turing-completeness?
< 1293752036 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiki no worki
< 1293752049 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does
< 1293752057 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey how do you regexp match in bash again
< 1293752059 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ ~= ]] ?
< 1293752062 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes
< 1293752062 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Memfractal
< 1293752079 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ "$pkg" ~= "stow-.*" ] || stow -v $(basename $pkg)
< 1293752080 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I was using the voxelperfect address since that was higher up on google
< 1293752081 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doin it rite?
< 1293752086 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: voxelperfect expired
< 1293752102 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, uh. [[ ]] not [ ]
< 1293752106 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, won't work in [ ]
< 1293752107 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: er yes.
< 1293752134 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, also I think you need to drop the quotes in [[ ]]. You used to need to drop quotes at least
< 1293752152 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/local/bin/build: line 15: conditional binary operator expected
< 1293752158 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't suppose it might require bash 4, mightn't it?
< 1293752167 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, no, bash 3.12 or such iirc
< 1293752170 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X uses, uh, 3.2.48(1).
< 1293752173 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1293752173 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well. There's the problem!
< 1293752178 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you mean 3.1.2.
< 1293752178 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, 3.2.12
< 1293752180 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant
< 1293752182 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ah.
< 1293752191 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waits for Vorpal to recoil in horror at the ancient bash version.

< 1293752192 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, they are at 48 now, wow
< 1293752200 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "now" -- this is from 2007!
< 1293752208 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, even more wow
< 1293752213 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott-Hirds-MacBook-Air:~ ehird$ bash --version
< 1293752213 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU bash, version 3.2.48(1)-release (x86_64-apple-darwin10.0)
< 1293752213 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copyright (C) 2007 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
< 1293752237 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, wait, isn't it =~ ?
< 1293752247 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: um. maybe. is it?
< 1293752247 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is
< 1293752249 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't in perl.
< 1293752250 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it?
< 1293752253 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well it is =~
< 1293752268 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought we all learned to not to do =x after C's =-.
< 1293752292 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, =-  hm right that is ambig. Never thought about it
< 1293752305 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what /does/ x=-4; do in C
< 1293752312 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: x = -4;
< 1293752316 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: pre-K&R, it was x -= 4;
< 1293752320 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: then they realised oops.
< 1293752322 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fixed it.
< 1293752328 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes quite
< 1293752341 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, anyway in bash it doesn't matter since you need spaces around it anyway
< 1293752393 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so, i need dblatex next i think.
< 1293752396 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, idea for confusing language, make >= and <= be some sort of assignment operators
< 1293752406 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides to use debian download mirrors rather than sourceforge.

< 1293752408 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because fuck sourceforge
< 1293752419 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I've actually occasionally thought an unary != would be nice.
< 1293752419 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!= foo;
< 1293752422 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as foo = !foo;
< 1293752436 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, hm. looks a bit awkward though
< 1293752440 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have also sometimes thought of that unary !=
< 1293752468 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But with C if you are using boolean and you know the value 0 and 1 you can type   foo^=1;
< 1293752476 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1293752514 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, you mean _Bool?
< 1293752530 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_Bool is why the C committee needs to be fired.
< 1293752542 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you mean the name of it?
< 1293752546 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No I just mean if you are having a variable that stores boolean values.
< 1293752546 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1293752547 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how they made it _Bool, but then RESERVED "I" IN THE GLOBAL NAMESPACE.
< 1293752554 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_HOW RETARDED IS THAT?!_
< 1293752574 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For complex number support that I have not seen *one* use of. Apparently CPLX_I is just too much I guess.
< 1293752574 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-,-
< 1293752576 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, wait a sec. what is I ?
< 1293752579 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Complex unit.
< 1293752587 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Squares to -1, you know the thing.
< 1293752589 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reserved.
< 1293752590 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In C99.
< 1293752591 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh, isn't that in some header?
< 1293752592 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the global namespace.
< 1293752602 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. But it's reserved anyway and IIRC compiling something that defines I fails with gcc because of it.
< 1293752608 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very retarded I think. I think GNU C uses gnu89 by default so it doesn't enable any of the stupid C99 features, only the non-stupid ones are enabled.
< 1293752614 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, ... how retarded
< 1293752625 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you type gnu99 then it will use all GNU features and all C99 featurse.
< 1293752669 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, at least stdbool.h defines bool
< 1293752686 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I use gnu89 mode which is the default mode.
< 1293752718 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293752724 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if they do reserved "I" is a reserved word maybe you can use the #define (or @d) command?
< 1293752728 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/local/share/install/dblatex-0.3: line 6: ./configure: No such file or directory
< 1293752729 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear.
< 1293752736 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"setup.py"
< 1293752738 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Ohd ear.
< 1293752740 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Oh dear.
< 1293752763 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I. Don't think Python lets you have two separate prefixes.
< 1293752766 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION listens to "Little Mouse".

< 1293752770 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, PYTHONPATH ?
< 1293752772 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY THERE LITTLE MOUSE
< 1293752776 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, no, as in
< 1293752779 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./configure --prefix=/opt
< 1293752779 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make
< 1293752783 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make install prefix=/opt/stow/foo-3.1
< 1293752784 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HOPE WE CAN UNDERSTAND ONE ANOTHER
< 1293752790 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: HEY NOW LITTLE MOUSE
< 1293752791 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, DESTDIR?
< 1293752799 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, this might work
< 1293752800 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's Python. It's too elegant to look at environment variables.
< 1293752823 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHOW ME WHAT TO DO
< 1293752830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well surely it supports destdir of some sort. Every distro I know uses staged install
< 1293752831 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(little mouse!)
< 1293752840 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I assure you I could hold more than just Boolean values
< 1293752850 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Every distro I know of uses a chroot.
< 1293752852 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable!
< 1293752859 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Debian, Fedora. :p
< 1293752864 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo too I think.
< 1293752872 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway destdir won't help.
< 1293752874 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, gentoo didn't use to use a chroot for it.
< 1293752876 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I think maybe C should have though, is some attribute to tell it what value a variable is supposed to have so that the optimizer can use that information, and code analysis can also use that information. Maybe it can be a pragma to do that?
< 1293752879 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh?
< 1293752879 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll put things in /opt/stow/foo/opt/bin
< 1293752885 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1293752906 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Although I could set DESTDIR to build dir plus "root".
< 1293752910 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then mv them into the right place.
< 1293752915 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might work
< 1293752916 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I'm all for the hacks, ye ken.
< 1293752929 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I've advocated for this before
< 1293752933 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm going to try just "python setup.py install --prefix=/opt/stow/foo" first and grep to see if it tries and remembers where it was installed :-P
< 1293752936 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, warns me it may come to Coq
< 1293752937 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-}
< 1293752938 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well I doubt you have any other option that will give you a successful install
< 1293752945 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: See above.
< 1293752977 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: not found: latex, makeindex, pdflatex, kpsewhich
< 1293752978 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm
< 1293752983 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, aiee
< 1293752983 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh man, this is great 'cuz I get to install TeX Live!
< 1293752987 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which isn't like 70 gigabytes!
< 1293752992 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm not on WiFi right now!
< 1293752993 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nosiree!
< 1293752994 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, 700 MB rather
< 1293753002 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 70 gigabytes on OS X :P
< 1293753007 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Or, more like 3 gigs the last I looked.
< 1293753019 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, dude, you will be limited by your link to your ISP, not by your wifi
< 1293753022 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's technically MacTeX, which is made out of TeX Live.
< 1293753024 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, I'm not.
< 1293753025 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you have awesome internet
< 1293753027 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, what
< 1293753033 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, 100 mbit fibre or what?
< 1293753035 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You have no idea how much consumer routers suck at WiFi.
< 1293753045 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh right, true.
< 1293753048 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I get 200-500 KiB/s generally on WiFi, 700-800 KiB/s generally on Ethernet.
< 1293753056 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: And be specific? Can it be a pragma to do this?
< 1293753062 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The current distribution is MacTeX-2010.
< 1293753062 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To obtain the distribution, click the link below.
< 1293753062 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MacTeX.mpkg.zip
< 1293753064 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ approximately 1.6G	- 08 September 2010 ]
< 1293753066 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH WELL, IT'S SMALLER THAN XCODE
< 1293753068 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, weird, I have a speedtouch, and I get 700-800 on both
< 1293753091 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are all TeX distributions too large?
< 1293753095 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god
< 1293753097 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott_, warns me it may come to Coq <-- as in, coq would get it?
< 1293753105 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: As in he'll turn $language into Coq. :p
< 1293753109 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes
< 1293753119 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computers need to have a "take note of what I just did these past 30 minutes" when getting some software to install is a bitch.
< 1293753128 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you could just edit the actions and remove all the stuff that doesn't work, and it becomes your build script.
< 1293753138 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, script? make -n ?
< 1293753142 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they generally have it
< 1293753146 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: What?
< 1293753152 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, have you seen frama-c. frama-c + why +  might do what you want (except not for the optimiser)
< 1293753153 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean a script to automate the configuration & compilation of a package.
< 1293753160 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, no
< 1293753160 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sshh, he's learning Haskell.
< 1293753165 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't recommend evil C tools :-)
< 1293753179 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, iirc why can also export the problem to coq
< 1293753195 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, not recommending. Just informing
< 1293753197 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can they have any TeX distribution that doesn't have LaTeX and PDF and all of that stuff?
< 1293753198 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 800 KiB/s on WiFi, guess I'll eat my sock.
< 1293753205 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yes, it's called tex.web.
< 1293753209 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you have only one sock?
< 1293753216 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Indeed. I had to sell the rest to buy this computer.
< 1293753217 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, if not: left or right one
< 1293753220 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, ah
< 1293753244 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, why are C tools evil?
< 1293753252 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: BECAUSE C IS OF THE DEVIL
< 1293753255 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I tried compiling tex.web with GNU Pascal and although it compiles with very few changes, it then complains about "his.tex" which does not exist and is not mentioned anywhere.
< 1293753271 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Or just because I'm trying to ensure your swift indoctrination into the Church of (Alonzo) Church ;-)
< 1293753286 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I am already a sworn Pastafarian and Googlist
< 1293753304 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION could be cast to a different religion though

< 1293753313 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Get off my invisible pink unicorned lawn, you FSM poseurs.
< 1293753322 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pastafarian?
< 1293753325 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck is that
< 1293753330 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
< 1293753334 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh right
< 1293753348 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, don't say his name in vain!
< 1293753353 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1293753353 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : variable: Get off my invisible pink unicorned lawn, you FSM poseurs. <-- says the user of gnu stow
< 1293753361 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think they are going to walk into the unicorn by mistake?
< 1293753374 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....
< 1293753376 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worthless imitators of the One True, which worships the Invisible Pink Unicorn.
< 1293753376 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, no, the IPU takes up no space
< 1293753383 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRAISE BE UNTO HER AND HER INVISIBILITY AND HER PINKOSITY
< 1293753388 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, international postage union?
< 1293753390 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C
< 1293753394 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Invisible Pink Unicorn.
< 1293753397 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh
< 1293753415 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, :-}
< 1293753416 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say the IPU Prayer every day before I get out of bed:
< 1293753418 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Invisible Pink Unicorns are beings of great spiritual power. We know this because they are capable of being invisible and pink at the same time. Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them."
< 1293753420 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Then why do you have to get out of the lawn? Probably for a different purpose, like they just don't want other people walking on it.
< 1293753447 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This image features a pink unicorn but it has an alpha channel that makes the unicorn transparent, thus approximating the appearance of the Invisible Pink Unicorn." --Wikipedia
< 1293753453 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT ONLY APPROXIMATING
< 1293753464 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, what wikipedia has that?
< 1293753472 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: [[Invisible Pink Unicorn]].
< 1293753476 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, this sounds like uncyclopedia!!!
< 1293753485 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*like awesome!!!
< 1293753492 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Uncyclopedia has it too, you can check.
< 1293753493 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If every Wikipedia page was like that I would adore it forever.
< 1293753506 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing says encyclopedias can't be occasionally humorous.
< 1293753516 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293753530 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Wikipedia's editors have forgotten that they're editing what is essentially a gigantic book to be read by humans -- not a practically-mechanical, dry reference work containing tables of pure fact.
< 1293753553 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any free Pascal compiler that will compile TeX and METAFONT exactly as is (once it is tangled)?
< 1293753564 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yes, the one Knuth used. :p
< 1293753573 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that probably wasn't Free as in FSF.
< 1293753587 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(once it is tangled)" <-- tangled?
< 1293753597 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that mean in this context
< 1293753602 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: TANGLE is the program to convert the WEB file into the Pascal file.
< 1293753612 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293753619 0 :Wamanuz4!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293753649 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: my hunch is that Memfractal is turing complete, although i'm not entirely sure if four exits is enough or not
< 1293753699 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: If not, could having multiple blocks help?
< 1293753702 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i assume all bits start as 0?
< 1293753724 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes all bits start as 0 (unless initial state says otherwise) (probably it should be mentioned)
< 1293753726 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ais523!
< 1293753728 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: when did you come in?
< 1293753739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by multiple blocks?
< 1293753743 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Initial state includes input state)
< 1293753767 0 :Wamanuz3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1293753768 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ok so some of the bits might be set dependent on input?
< 1293753787 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: By multiple blocks, I mean that instead of one block, you have two rectangles which are two blocks and possibly have some new command to select one.
< 1293753811 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes some bits might be set on input. But if you are using with no input, it is all 0 at the start.
< 1293753817 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: so + would select one of them and some other command the other?
< 1293753846 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes maybe + selects one and some other command select the other.
< 1293753861 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might not be necessary though
< 1293753875 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I was thinking too, I don't know if it is necessary or not.
< 1293753927 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try to implement a TC language in it?
< 1293753948 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how though, but BCT is probably a good target
< 1293753988 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't do BCT, the fractal connections don't fit a queue very well
< 1293753995 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm true
< 1293754000 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, any better suggestion?
< 1293754009 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a tape might be easy
< 1293754032 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1293754041 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, when does the program end? (does it end at all?)
< 1293754055 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293754066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assumed it would end if you left the top program?
< 1293754075 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes you are correct
< 1293754095 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293754177 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can anyone make a Free emulation of the environment used in Knuth's TeX that can compile the program without changes and can treat file areas and so on in the way the TeX program does, and can save the program image (as described in section 1331 of TeX: The Program)?
< 1293754276 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1293754280 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody can do that.
< 1293754391 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well technically someone could. But would be tricky and pointless
< 1293754425 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No.
< 1293754426 0 :Wamanuz5!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293754428 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is physically impossible.
< 1293754430 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly.
< 1293754432 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, why?
< 1293754436 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is why zzo38 does not need to ask any more questions about it.
< 1293754439 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it is impossible.
< 1293754442 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we can drop the subject, obviously!
< 1293754449 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Don't you agree?
< 1293754456 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh. true
< 1293754477 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though I have MiKTeX installed here (and Live TeX at Free Geek), it is too large and contains a lot of extra stuff
< 1293754483 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it's the third law of thermodynamics right?
< 1293754487 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@75-174-216-30.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293754487 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes.
< 1293754488 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I am sure it is not impossible.
< 1293754494 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think it is.
< 1293754496 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of physics.
< 1293754511 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of physics?
< 1293754534 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1293754590 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I think it is possible for sure. Maybe it is even possible to modify GNU Pascal to work in this way.
< 1293754604 0 :Wamanuz4!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1293754610 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not impossible but improbable
< 1293754723 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to leak of motivation
< 1293754759 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: No.
< 1293754763 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: Impossible.
< 1293754770 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay okay
< 1293754779 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@97-124-45-84.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293754799 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't impossible.
< 1293754820 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1293754827 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to argue
< 1293754851 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :want some cookies?
< 1293754852 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh hm i see memfractal is reversible.  that might complicate things...
< 1293754858 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION offers

< 1293754975 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay tex live has almost downloaded
< 1293754980 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i can continue reinventing package managers, badly
< 1293754986 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least i don't need to worry about dependencies
< 1293755005 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vhdl must be the ugliest language on earth
< 1293755008 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any small TeX distribution that works?
< 1293755158 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: mactex is 3 gigs unpacked apparently
< 1293755158 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1293755159 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and installed
< 1293755223 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293755246 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, without LaTeX, PDF, kpathsea, PostScript, BibTeX, fontconfig, and all that stuff.
< 1293755353 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1293755364 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293755416 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tar: Unrecognized archive format: Inappropriate file type or format
< 1293755417 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf.
< 1293755450 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously, the file type is porn
< 1293755454 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293755494 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293755515 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They added a JPEG header by mistake and it just happens so to make pornography when you do that????? I don't think so.
< 1293755528 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no... tiff header
< 1293755593 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: O, it is tiff header.
< 1293755615 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, do you know what a joke is?
< 1293755719 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, no, he does not. Nor does he know that none of us care about any of his software.
< 1293755730 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or he knows and he doesn't care.
< 1293755774 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293755775 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I know a joke. I write my own joke too.
< 1293755797 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1293755825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 doesn't read other people's jokes, he just writes his own
< 1293756008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ...does curl keep an internal cache?
< 1293756016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to be downloading this file suspiciously quickly.
< 1293756104 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293756164 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I very much doubt it
< 1293756166 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone used https://www.nearlyfreespeech.net/  -> any recs?
< 1293756188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen plenty of people recommend it. It's probably the best choice ... if you want to get shared web hosting, but why would you want that?
< 1293756193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get a VPS.
< 1293756198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://prgmr.com/xen/
< 1293756248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Are you *sure*? :p
< 1293756280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The requested URL /debian/pool/main/d/dblatex/dblatex_0.3.orig.tar.bz2 was not found on this server.
< 1293756281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1293756293 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no I'm no curl expert
< 1293756295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait.
< 1293756298 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293756298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does curl not exit 1 on 404???
< 1293756312 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, HOW SHOULD I KNOW?!
< 1293756314 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check docs
< 1293756316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott-Hirds-MacBook-Air:~ ehird$ curl -O http://www.se.kernel.org/debian/pool/main/d/dblatex/dblatex_0.3.orig.tar.bz2
< 1293756317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  % Total    % Received % Xferd  Average Speed   Time    Time     Time  Current
< 1293756317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                 Dload  Upload   Total   Spent    Left  Speed
< 1293756318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :113   340  113   340    0     0   1211      0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:--  3908
< 1293756320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott-Hirds-MacBook-Air:~ ehird$ echo $?
< 1293756322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0
< 1293756324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is fucking retarded
< 1293756459 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try wget
< 1293756519 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use --fail
< 1293756524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ for prog in /usr/local/texlive/2010/bin/x86_64-darwin/*; do ln -s $prog /usr/local/bin; done
< 1293756529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: OS X doesn't ship with wget, so no. :-)
< 1293756534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Heh.
< 1293756540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Shouldn't it be --disable-fail :)
< 1293756547 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah
< 1293756552 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It successfully fetched the 404 page
< 1293756566 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the docs for --fail say that it doesn't always work
< 1293756570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1293756580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good to see curl is so mature.
< 1293756608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Groan, it /does/ remember where it was installed.
< 1293756658 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what does, stow?
< 1293756665 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found that someone did manage to compile TeX with GNU Pascal.
< 1293756746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, dblatex.
< 1293756760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python setup.py install --prefix=/opt --destdir=../dest
< 1293756760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkdir /opt/stow/$pkg
< 1293756760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cp -R ../dest/opt/* /opt/stow/$pkg
< 1293756763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a boss.
< 1293756784 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the final boss of the game?
< 1293756788 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a miniboss?
< 1293756795 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just a boss?
< 1293756804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COOL IT DOESN'T DO --DESTDIR
< 1293756811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Like a boss.
< 1293756816 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... it doesn't do destdir?
< 1293756834 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does mcmap do destdir?
< 1293756862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: mcmap doesn't do install. So no.
< 1293756878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  --install-base      base installation directory (instead of --prefix or --
< 1293756879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                      home)
< 1293756879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  --install-platbase  base installation directory for platform-specific files
< 1293756880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                      (instead of --exec-prefix or --home)
< 1293756883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see this is going to be fun and not painful at all.
< 1293756903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The single good thing about autotools is that it stops people too stupid to exist from creating their own systems.
< 1293756914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently being a Pythonisticator overrides that.
< 1293756927 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, isn't it setuputils or whatever the standard python thing is called?
< 1293757005 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is trying Aardappel

< 1293757018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: distutils.
< 1293757030 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah
< 1293757034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :setuptools is an extension to distuti^W^W^W^W something we should all try and forget ever happened.
< 1293757202 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is it an extension to something we should try to forget
< 1293757210 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean it is something we should try to forget
< 1293757211 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1293757211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^W
< 1293757214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter
< 1293757363 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why is setuptools bad?
< 1293757390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh god. so many reasons. easy_install is the worst program ever written. and the command-line wrappers it installs take like 1s to just find the program
< 1293757393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s classes
< 1293757406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be noted, for instance, that easy_install comes without an easy_uninstall.
< 1293757415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, installation requires manually editing a generated file, and removing a directory.
< 1293757418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*uninstallation
< 1293757533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god this is awful
< 1293757660 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is supposed to be an upsetting scene, I think, but I got distracted by the crappy CPR
< 1293757756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293757792 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293757963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY SOEONE FIX THIS REOJGEG]\E[PE]E[4
< 1293757963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :44
< 1293757987 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, change the O to an U and the J to a G
< 1293757988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahahahahaa!!
< 1293757990 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed
< 1293757993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I GOT IT LIKE A JUNGLE
< 1293758002 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ??
< 1293758030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python setup.py install --prefix=/opt --root=../root
< 1293758031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkdir -p /opt/stow/$pkg
< 1293758031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cp -R ../root/opt/* /opt/stow/$pkg
< 1293758227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION removes version numbers from his packages

< 1293758229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more simplar!!
< 1293758272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, it all works now
< 1293758383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: is it sane to have an autotools source directory as a subdirectory of the build directory? >:)
< 1293758527 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think GCC will hate you at least
< 1293758550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ghc hates anyone who even _looks_ at its build system. even it knows that it's the worst ever.
< 1293758556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1293758557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gcc
< 1293758560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how GCC devs even cope.
< 1293758575 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I meant the gcc build system
< 1293758577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a million-line shell script that always recompiles the entire source tree would be faster and easier to use
< 1293758578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know
< 1293758621 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc's build system is saner than ghc's IMO
< 1293758657 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has some slightly silly requirements, like only working for out-of-source builds
< 1293758665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: GHC's got completely modernised lately, dude
< 1293758673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./configure && make && make install is now perfectly sane
< 1293758681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it /used/ to be a right mess
< 1293758689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: if you're referring to the ghc dependency, well ... not much you can do about that
< 1293758696 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but I think it's not completely modernised, and not sufficiently modern :P
< 1293758705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: what's suboptimal about it?
< 1293758723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure: WARNING: cannot find DocBook XSL stylesheets, you will not be able to build the documentation
< 1293758726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure: WARNING: cannot find hasktags in your PATH, you will not be able to build the tags
< 1293758728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :todo: fix
< 1293758730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also hscolor
< 1293758906 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293759041 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally mostly that parallel builds aren't properly parallel, but there are other diffuse signs of ugliness
< 1293759059 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think something with the makefile generation through cabal was screwy last time I built
< 1293759163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JESUS CHRIST @ docbook-xsl's install.sh
< 1293759221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok what is an xml catalog an why do i need it
< 1293759335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: omfg xml is the worst, did you know
< 1293759383 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: let's just say I've used ant...
< 1293759394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yeah but that's not even the worst!
< 1293759402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: the worst is schema xsl catalogue files xsltproc
< 1293759633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+	dh_installxmlcatalogs
< 1293759633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+	# upstream ships {param,pi,table}.xml as example for DocBook
< 1293759633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+	# because we don't need them inside docbook-xsl, we exclude them
< 1293759635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+	dh_install -Xparam.xml -Xpi.xml -Xtable.xml -XChangeLog* -X.param.* -X.lib.* -X.gitignore
< 1293759645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian -- hiding things away in macros so you can't see how the fuck to build things since 1993.
< 1293759704 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :verilog looks much nicer than vhdl.
< 1293759707 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh.. "It always amazes me that someone as perceptive on blood glucose, and indirectly on blood insulin, as Dr Davis can still believe the lipid hypothesis. Really believe. Fascinating."
< 1293759759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks at the arch build scripts for this

< 1293759760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg what is this
< 1293759768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is awful
< 1293759770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is in fact the worst
< 1293759850 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, a Linux distro heavily reliant on PSOX would ... *gets shot by elliott*
< 1293759872 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is verilog turing complete?
< 1293759891 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, that went completely over my head (or maybe on the side of it)
< 1293759909 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you can implement a microprocessor in it, upon which you can implement a turing complete assembler
< 1293759918 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1293759926 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it should be turing complete, right?
< 1293759938 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, no actual hardware can be TC.
< 1293759956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: verilog is sub-TC.
< 1293759956 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure neither verilog nor vhdl are actually TC.
< 1293759964 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what can it not do?
< 1293759970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as ais523 can explain but i wouldn't recommend him to due to it being a waste of time due to the target.
< 1293760005 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the target of this conversation being you showing off that you're a prissy brat?
< 1293760021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so edgy.
< 1293760021 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, was it docbook-xml or docbook-xsl?
< 1293760023 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293760026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: -xsl.
< 1293760039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it probably is TC via the not-for-synthesis features
< 1293760043 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the PKGBUILD seems to be manual install commands?
< 1293760046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's incapable of dynamic allocation, which wouldn't surprise me
< 1293760058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm pretty sure it is, isn't it?
< 1293760059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the "because it can be used to make a microprocessor" is bogus reasoning as microprocessors aren't TC
< 1293760064 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the target of this conversation being you showing off that you're a prissy brat? <-- not brat no
< 1293760068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think VHDL is capable of dynamic allocation is it?
< 1293760082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not too sure about its not-for-synthesis features
< 1293760082 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seriously, and I never thought I'd say this, do try to get along the two of you)
< 1293760085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: cheater doesn't like me because i call him a troll when he trolls.
< 1293760086 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, but things that run on them can be
< 1293760096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't surprise me if you could make arbitrary length strings, for instance
< 1293760101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes i think the lack of moderation in here is a bad thing :)
< 1293760107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: no they can't, because they wouldn't be able to access infinite storage
< 1293760118 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293760125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITT: cheater99 doesn't know what Turing complete means
< 1293760127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can run a BF interp on a processor, but it would eventually run out of memory if you kept extending the tape
< 1293760160 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but no concrete implementation of a language has access to infinite storage
< 1293760176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: indeed
< 1293760188 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that would mean you imply no language is TC
< 1293760198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no concrete implementation is TC, indeed
< 1293760209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being TC is a property of languages in theory, not in practice
< 1293760235 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in theory for every program that needs to be executed a microcontroller with enough storage could be programmed in verilog
< 1293760238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also talk about bounded-storage machines, which are ill-defined, but effectively "machines that would be TC except for the possibility of running out of memory"
< 1293760250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :autoconf question: If I have an X system, and want to build a compiler as an X executable, that outputs X executables, _but_ it's bootstrapping from a Y compiler
< 1293760252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: yep, verilog counts as a bounded-storage machine for that reason
< 1293760254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's BUILD, HOST, TARGET?
< 1293760262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X=64-bit and Y=32-bit in this case
< 1293760267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :build = Y, host = X, target = X
< 1293760272 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh. that is a canadian cross
< 1293760274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thanks
< 1293760275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no it's not
< 1293760279 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no
< 1293760280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no it isn't
< 1293760280 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh
< 1293760284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :canadian cross requires three systems
< 1293760285 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUILD is where you build it, HOST is where you run it, TARGET is what it builds when run
< 1293760288 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is just cross compiling a native compiler
< 1293760290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have a 64-bit system, and want a 64-bit compiler; I just happen to have a 32-bit compiler to build it with
< 1293760296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is right I think
< 1293760303 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but the memory doesn't need to be bounded. when you're executing and run out of memory, freeze the turing machine just before the allocation fails, and transplant it onto a bigger host.
< 1293760318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: then doing that would be part of the impl itself
< 1293760319 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, no. 2 does it. on X build a compiler that will run on Y and will target X
< 1293760326 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as far as I know that is a canadian cross too
< 1293760332 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can certainly implement that in verilog.
< 1293760334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think you can have a /concrete/ impl that does that
< 1293760337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's a crossback
< 1293760342 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh okay
< 1293760366 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think canadian cross is only when you build a cross-compiler using a cross-compiler, in this case he's just cross-compiling a normal compiler
< 1293760380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1293760385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cross-compiling a compiler" is the best description
< 1293760391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more or less the same as cross-compiling anything else
< 1293760420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, canadian cross has the worst etymology ever
< 1293760423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discovered by cpressey
< 1293760426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done the YXX combination with C-INTERCAL before, in order to test it (where Y = x86-32, X = ARM, as I happened to have an x86 to ARM crosscompiler handy)
< 1293760429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically
< 1293760431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's a reference to the canadian political system
< 1293760435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the time, canada had three main political parties
< 1293760435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to the gcc manual
< 1293760437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also
< 1293760441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are three architectures involved
< 1293760445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean ... that is so stupid
< 1293760462 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I thought it was a reference to the red cross?
< 1293760463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not call it a ménage à compiler?
< 1293760465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes about as much sense
< 1293760467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: to me it fits in the "this is vaguely similar, let's call one after the other" strategy
< 1293760467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ...
< 1293760475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/strategy/category/
< 1293760505 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :red cross would work. You need band aid after doing a canadian cross
< 1293760506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ménage à compiler!
< 1293760510 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have you read "cryptonomicon"?
< 1293760512 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't that be compiler à trois? or was it flipped intentionally?
< 1293760522 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's a book that features a fictional version of alan turing.
< 1293760529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it's the Bad Etymology game
< 1293760533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it shouldn't make more sense
< 1293760539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Have you read "SICP"?
< 1293760546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I haven't
< 1293760546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's a book that features a real version of Sussman.
< 1293760551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never come across a copy, and it would take a while
< 1293760553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*The Sussman.
< 1293760573 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Sussman"?
< 1293760607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yes.
< 1293760623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Technically it should be [b]The Sussman[/b] but IRC doesn't support the requisite International Standard for BBCode.
< 1293760628 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if anyone has ever tried to name their child "The"

< 1293760700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GO GO GHC BUIL
< 1293760700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D
< 1293760702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAVE AN SSD
< 1293760704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THUSLY YOU GO FAST
< 1293760706 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but what's The Sussman?
< 1293760708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOOOOOOOOO ROCKET POWER
< 1293760720 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did you use -pipe, to save on the SSD?
< 1293760724 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, (for gcc that is)
< 1293760729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: The Sussman is the man otherwise known as ``Gerald Jay Sussman''.
< 1293760741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No. It'll only compile the runtime system with gcc anyway, the rest is all GHC.
< 1293760747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Besides, SSDs are smart.
< 1293760748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why use BBcode when you can do this?
< 1293760756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: +c, silly
< 1293760757 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, I see what you mean
< 1293760764 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOu can use CTRL+B for emphasis in IRC, some clients will accept it, some won't because it is not part of the main RFC for IRC.
< 1293760765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I thought that didn't block bolding
< 1293760767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just colors
< 1293760769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It blocks everything.
< 1293760773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293760780 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, this channel will filter it
< 1293760784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know my client blocks colors, but not bolding
< 1293760787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is probably for the best; when I'm on Jabber I abuse italics to ridiculous extent.
< 1293760789 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then use CTRL+A
< 1293760801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've been told off for using /slash italics/ excessively
< 1293760801 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he's not actually *in* the book, is he? as far as I understand he just (co-)wrote it?
< 1293760802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woo, the fan realised I was using the computational power of my CPU and has decided to start going.
< 1293760808 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or any other control character which is not blockde.
< 1293760809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in all sorts of contexts, not just Usenet
< 1293760812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: His beautiful voice comes through in the text!
< 1293760812 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test
< 1293760824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you aren't on the toshiba satellite any more, are you?
< 1293760824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Look, I had to fit the snowclone, shut up and let me quote /prog/ memes until the last river runs dry.
< 1293760831 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's funny, when I read it, it comes out in my voice
< 1293760832 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ctrl-A is reserved for CTCP commands
< 1293760838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, I left it behind two days ago.
< 1293760842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fan runs continuously on Windows 7, but on Ubuntu it only seems to run when I'm watching a lot of video
< 1293760846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what are you on now?
< 1293760850 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293760857 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Use another control character then.
< 1293760866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ensnared in the terrifying jaws of proprietary lockdown and loss of freedom ... but it's less than an inch thick!
< 1293760871 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use ANSI escapes I don't know if any IRC client accepts it though
< 1293760882 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293760885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an inch isn't really a very good comparison
< 1293760887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"VROOM I AM A JET PLANE," says the little fan. "VROOOOOM!"
< 1293760890 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that was dumb
< 1293760893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think even the Satellite is less than an inch thick
< 1293760897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it isn't
< 1293760905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inches are massive
< 1293760907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it also has ugly feet :)
< 1293760920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, reword: It literally couldn't fit a bigger port than USB.
< 1293760925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's better
< 1293760929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The USB port only has the slightest border on the top and bottom.
< 1293760930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macbook air?
< 1293760936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: MAYE
< 1293760937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MAYBE
< 1293760937 0 :fxkr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1293760944 0 :fxkr!~fxkr@unaffiliated/fxkr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293760945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of much else that fits both statements you've given
< 1293760948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my defence, they updated it recently and the specs are now ... well, respectable.
< 1293760962 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 13" or 11"?
< 1293760963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have no idea how good or otherwise it
< 1293760965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is
< 1293760969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Recent Core 2 Duo, 4 gigs of RAM, 1440x900 resolution, a whole *two* USB ports, and a 256 gig SSD.)
< 1293760972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: 13".
< 1293760985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish the fan ran less, but otherwise it's really nice.
< 1293760992 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this work?
< 1293760995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*s/\*/s\/$\/$'\//
< 1293760995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to like heating up whenever you actually /do/ anything.
< 1293761004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I just see literal characters around the "this"
< 1293761007 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, " Does [0010]this[0010] work?
< 1293761009 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I see
< 1293761010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that look like solid triangles pointing left
< 1293761025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, 0010 = 16 = control-P
< 1293761030 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, 1440*900? that's an improvement
< 1293761032 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Not to the right?
< 1293761036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yes, it's really nice actually
< 1293761037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, to the left
< 1293761041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: the Toshiba has 1366x768
< 1293761051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not that much larger a res
< 1293761053 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, does this do anything?
< 1293761053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the ppi might be a bit high on this considering the proliferation of bitmaps, but it's actually just fine.
< 1293761061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that gives me triangles pointing right
< 1293761062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, but it's definitely a marked improvement.
< 1293761068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would make sense
< 1293761081 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the macbook pros are only 1280x800 in 13"
< 1293761081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I grew up on 640x480
< 1293761091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: heh
< 1293761101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well this thing could stand up to a 13" macbook pro
< 1293761102 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Well, does this do anything? <-- same as before but 0011 now
< 1293761107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I forgot to mention it has the same GPU
< 1293761113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is /really/ nice, for integrated graphics
< 1293761116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I had an idea for an #esoteric collaborative language project, FWIW (there is, in fact, logic behind telling _you_ this in particular).
< 1293761125 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so intel graphics?
< 1293761128 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if integrated)
< 1293761128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No. Nvidia.
< 1293761136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: can you embed a literal NUL in your messages? most clients can't, but I wouldn't be surprised if yours could
< 1293761143 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh. So integrated nvidia? how strange
< 1293761149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Um, that's incredibly common.
< 1293761152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On desktops especially.
< 1293761162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Our own Perl 6: basically, second system design taken to perfection. The biggest language we can think of focusing on ridiculous concision and no care at all for ease of implementation or bloat.
< 1293761163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it seems unlikely that a Mac would use Intel graphics to me, it doesn't really fit their image
< 1293761169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The idea is to beat them at their own silly game :-)
< 1293761181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Actually they used to.
< 1293761185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(use Intel graphics)
< 1293761186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually rather like Perl 6
< 1293761197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh, I do too.
< 1293761203 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aos523: Let me see if I can embed a null
< 1293761204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I just think _we_ could do a much better job of it.
< 1293761215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiler/stage2/build/LibFFI_hsc_make.c:1: error: CPU you selected does not support x86-64 instruction set
< 1293761216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh
< 1293761218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but perl 6 almost isn't vaporware
< 1293761219 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What did it display?
< 1293761223 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293761233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38:  aos523: Let me see if I can embed a null
< 1293761239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the previous comment by you
< 1293761245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the comment you embedded a nul in?
< 1293761255 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think the server cuts it off.
< 1293761260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did you embed it in a different comment, in such a way that it didn't come up at all?
< 1293761265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :server cutting it off wouldn't surprise me
< 1293761265 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After the null I wrote "there it is"
< 1293761272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that makes sense
< 1293761291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, it occurs to me that it might turn out quite similar to J
< 1293761298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., Perl 6 has Zop for zip-with-op
< 1293761302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo Zop bar
< 1293761309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so obviously you can have /op for fold-with-op, like J has
< 1293761321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/op foo;
< 1293761322 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293761322 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293761324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which generalises to
< 1293761327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zero /op foo;
< 1293761330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g.
< 1293761336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/+foo;
< 1293761337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is
< 1293761342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo[0] + foo[1] + foo[2] + 1
< 1293761346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for 3-length foo)
< 1293761367 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-57-8.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293761565 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ety7i/the_one_day_challenge_one_php_file_24_hours_what/
< 1293761625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see first comment.
< 1293761740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: unfortunately, it looks like your cross-compilation help won't work
< 1293761747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think GHC /can/ cross-compile like that
< 1293761780 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293761873 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, this is interesting: apparently cretin originally meant "christian" and was used to point out that mentally retarded people were still christian and deserving of dignity
< 1293761904 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and atheist retards are apparently worthless...)
< 1293761958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: :D
< 1293761959 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minuit chrétiens
< 1293761976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it takes a huge amount of hackery to get autoconf to do build/host/target correctly
< 1293761997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: more like, when you have a compiler that depends on itself, all this stuff is complicated to do!
< 1293762000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-INTERCAL does it by running autoconf twice recursively
< 1293762009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even then, that only does build/host, not build/host/target
< 1293762011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /hope/ that it'll manage to do a proper bootstrap here, but I fear that it's going to just do an unregistered build
< 1293762021 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a shame, I somehow though half the point of autoconf was to make stuff like that work correctly
< 1293762029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you trying to build for 64-bit using a 32-bit compiler anyway?
< 1293762038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you should see gcc's autoconf script
< 1293762044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly written by hand, in shellscript rather than m4
< 1293762046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hideous
< 1293762052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because the only GHC binaries for 64-bit are two 7.0.1 ones that depend on MacPorts libgmp
< 1293762062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and I don't use MacPorts
< 1293762065 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I write a program with works without autoconf.
< 1293762072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (the support is rather new)
< 1293762082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so I'm using the regular 32-bit GHC binary to try and build a 64-bit one
< 1293762086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293762101 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I always thought autoconf was what did that :(
< 1293762106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1293762114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :autoconf does many things, but not that
< 1293762127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I also like how gcc uses _hand-written Makefiles_.
< 1293762139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it mostly compensates for nonportabilities with other systems
< 1293762140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't know if you've ever looked at them, but ... those don't look like the product of hands to me.
< 1293762153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have you seen GHC's Evil Mangler?
< 1293762153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: more fun, gcc has various flags describing the machine
< 1293762167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some combinations aren't supported by the gcc core, and the fact isn't documented except in comments inside the code
< 1293762181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these combinations are actually used, and the arches that use them have their own code just override the core for that bit
< 1293762184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's a literate perl script that runs regular expressions over C compiler output to remove the C function prologues and epilogues from the assembly ... for _multiple assemblers_
< 1293762184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code duplication ftw
< 1293762193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: haha
< 1293762195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, literate perl: they wrote their own literate perl processor
< 1293762201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it is, quite possibly, the most evil thing ever written
< 1293762203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and literate perl already exists
< 1293762210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you mean POD?
< 1293762212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1293762213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POD has nothing to do with literate programming.
< 1293762216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are very mistaken
< 1293762221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it can be abused for that purpose
< 1293762225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of.
< 1293762228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in this case they used latex: http://darcs.haskell.org/ghc/driver/mangler/ghc-asm.lprl
< 1293762228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=begin html
< 1293762230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=end html
< 1293762231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=cut
< 1293762235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, that's not what literate programming is at all
< 1293762240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever other markup system you like
< 1293762245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've seen literate programming
< 1293762254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me, it's nothing to do with the syntax, you could just use regular comments
< 1293762257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's just inline documentation
< 1293762266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's to do with how you intersperse the comments and code, and what the comments say
< 1293762272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it's about reordering the program
< 1293762277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1293762282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but more expressive languages alleviate this need by having more expressive procedural abstractions)
< 1293762289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(still, if you can't name a procedure a sentence, it isn't really the same)
< 1293762299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do that in algol 68!
< 1293762306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello world is an entirely legal variable name
< 1293762390 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the evil mangler is quite impressive in a way
< 1293762406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, i wish people woul stop talking about pair programming
< 1293762435 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pair programming LOL
< 1293762464 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you couldn't make this stuff up
< 1293762533 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should rewrite it in haskell and call it the Holy Mangler
< 1293762583 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how did they port ghc to a new platform in the first place if it can't easily cross compile?
< 1293762594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: unregistered builds
< 1293762599 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, meaning?
< 1293762627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: complicated things
< 1293762634 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay
< 1293762637 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can't you do that then
< 1293762641 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Literate programming is about making a book!
< 1293762641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Building/Porting
< 1293762643 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or temporarily use macports
< 1293762648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, and no.
< 1293762656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now you get the zzo38 book-is-program speech
< 1293762726 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Life is about making a book!
< 1293762744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Book is about making a book!
< 1293762761 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Book [...] a book!
< 1293762783 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about starting from a 64-bit ghc 6.x?
< 1293762787 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does that work?
< 1293762799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I had my own Wikipedia page for over 18 months. I made myself an apple orchard tycoon from the Midwest. Worst that happened was it being tagged for not including enough citations. When I started seeking "real" jobs I got paranoid that employers would see it and know it was me goofing off so I flagged it as a vanity page and got it taken down. I tried deleting it but the WikiBots auto-reverted it. I was very proud of that page. In fac
< 1293762799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t, I later found a student at a Wisconsin university had used made up information from that article for his Senior Project (a planned bike route through apple country)."
< 1293762802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there are no such builds
< 1293762806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X 64-bit support is new
< 1293762807 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah
< 1293762842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll just make a 32-bit build and save my sanity.
< 1293762854 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be nice if ghc porting wasn't so darned difficult
< 1293762876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: X depending on X is just a general headache :)
< 1293762886 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that depends
< 1293762887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: but it's shiny so we keep doing it regardless of the engineering problems
< 1293762889 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd probably help if it could do cross-compiling (of itself) too
< 1293762903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yeah #ghc says this build can't possibly work
< 1293762906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm leaving it going
< 1293762907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just in case
< 1293762914 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, erlang depends on erlang. But since it uses  bytecode this is less of an issue
< 1293762921 0 :Wamanuz5!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1293762925 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(still the erlang compiler is written in erlang)
< 1293762942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised how sturdy this laptop is... it feels as solid as a MacBook Pro
< 1293762943 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, elliott knows better than #ghc about building ghc
< 1293762962 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You know what "lipid hypothesis" is?
< 1293762969 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, never heard of it
< 1293762972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: no, but I've got FAIIITH OF THE HEAART -- and if the Enterprise theme just started playing in your head, enjoy the pain.
< 1293762992 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortunately, I don't remember it :D
< 1293762992 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh UGH
< 1293762998 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst theme ever
< 1293762998 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293763004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: absolutely
< 1293763011 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall the theme as being that bad though
< 1293763017 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, I love the mirror universe theme from that series thoug
< 1293763020 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though*
< 1293763022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1293763025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl5zw6fGjdA if you haven't seen it)
< 1293763029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also with totally different graphics
< 1293763030 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The (crock) idea that cholesterol causes heart disease.
< 1293763035 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, lyrics makes it instantly worse than all other star trek themes
< 1293763042 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, same graphics in part near the beginning
< 1293763049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well. all 3 seconds of it
< 1293763053 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and that is used to rather good effect
< 1293763067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically the title goes black even before the ship
< 1293763069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's more like .5s :P
< 1293763074 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, I have no opinion on that.
< 1293763076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... come to think of it, 
< 1293763089 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, too much of anything is probably bad anyway so *shurg*
< 1293763116 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote   ... come to think of it, 
< 1293763133 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :259)   ... come to think of it, 
< 1293763152 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes how that "... come to think of it," is clearly the only thing which _isn't_ pedantic

< 1293763165 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glucose and insulin in blood are necressary. But both become substances from hell when in excessive amounts... And those amounts aren't really that high.
< 1293763173 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this is very very strange (from unregistered build instructions): $ cp /bin/pwd utils/ghc-pwd/ghc-pwd
< 1293763178 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL
< 1293763184 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pedants don't just "come to think of" things!
< 1293763252 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE SENSE NO MAKE ALL THAT
< 1293763274 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, THE PUN MAKE INSTALL
< 1293763276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the little gnome inside my laptop is burning
< 1293763284 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: relistened to the enterprise theme now - it doesn't annoy me
< 1293763286 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, check sensors?
< 1293763293 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I remember there being an OS X app for it
< 1293763296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I GOT FAIIIIITH!
< 1293763303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's fine, it's just warm :P
< 1293763308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not quite at birth control level yet.
< 1293763318 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah
< 1293763382 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293763432 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they sing that? I don't hear it when I listen to the song, so bladder all you want about FAIIIIIITH :P
< 1293763445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: that's the alternate universe one
< 1293763446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not annoying
< 1293763448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you presumably clicked
< 1293763458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: that's the AWESOME one
< 1293763460 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I clicked onwards to the original theme
< 1293763473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: "I GOT FAIIIITH OF THE HEART"
< 1293763498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: this one yes? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPn-lTytfGo
< 1293763536 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one yes
< 1293763552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: maybe you are deaf :)
< 1293763568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: to be fair, it may be hatred for EVERY OTHER THING about Enterprise spilling over.
< 1293763618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ok it's killing my future children now
< 1293763624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this laptop's silence and coolness does not scale
< 1293763646 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, move it to a table...
< 1293763650 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it will cool better then too
< 1293763652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none nearby
< 1293763655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's actually just cooling my legs
< 1293763659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1293763659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :warming
< 1293763663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :melting more like
< 1293763670 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, move to a stable then
< 1293763678 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then move notebook on it
< 1293763680 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, I generally don't listen to lyrics, so "faith of the heart" would've registered as "faaaay blada baaa" or something like that
< 1293763703 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, hm. same for me actually.
< 1293763708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just cuz youre swedenish
< 1293763713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*your
< 1293763721 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you're
< 1293763773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*your
< 1293763811 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's the same for swedish songs :)
< 1293763820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*its
< 1293763825 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tro i ditt hjärta
< 1293763827 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :german and japanese lyrics work better though
< 1293763833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make[1]: *** [utils/haddock/dist/build/Paths_haddock.o] Bus error
< 1293763836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disregard that i suck cocks
< 1293763849 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "buss error" eh. That is quite rare
< 1293763855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not on OS X.
< 1293763857 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got it from mcmap the other day
< 1293763858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a segfault.
< 1293763866 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so you never get a segfault on there?
< 1293763868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They say bus error for whatever reason, perhaps Mach.
< 1293763870 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you get that too?
< 1293763879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think it's mostly bus errors. I think I may have seen a segfault once or twice.
< 1293763884 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293763892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION builds a 32-bit GHC instead

< 1293763896 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, on linux you see bus error once or twice instead
< 1293763903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stow is actually quite nice i wonder what pikhq dislikes about it
< 1293763908 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why do you hate macports?
< 1293763920 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never seen a bus error on linux, only on solaris and mac
< 1293763937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (1) they like to duplicate a lot of software Apple includes, which tends to be irritating ... except that they don't duplicate all of it, e.g. gcc (even though they have a gcc package), so managing everything can be a real pain
< 1293763941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's pretty darn slow
< 1293763942 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, happens like... 2-3 times / year on linux for me
< 1293763945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's really complex
< 1293763953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's often out of date, sometimes significantly
< 1293763958 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :segfault : 5 / week ?
< 1293763959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and it just generally isn't pleasant to use.
< 1293763969 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm
< 1293763973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's very easy to screw things up when using macports.
< 1293763980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have to keep track of what youre using the apple version of vs macports
< 1293763982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you're
< 1293763983 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but would using it for bootstrapping ghc hurt?
< 1293763991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I just downloaded the GHC installer for that.
< 1293763996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MacPorts wouldn't make that any simpler.
< 1293764002 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh but for 64-bit I meant
< 1293764005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think MacPorts has a 64-bit GHC, but really, 32-bit works better for now.
< 1293764011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well that'd be silly
< 1293764015 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh?
< 1293764017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because macports already does download binary -> build from source
< 1293764024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'd have to build ghc from source TWCIE
< 1293764025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*TWICE
< 1293764031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is the point where i commit suicide
< 1293764039 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well but why not download the binary only
< 1293764043 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and use that bit
< 1293764068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because binaries suxxx0r0r0r. :p (Because I want it in my /opt stow-based system, and GHC isn't relocatable.)
< 1293764097 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so get 64-bit binary version. Use that to build your own 64-bit one from source
< 1293764111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 64-bit binary requires macports libs.
< 1293764112 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you can remove the non-/opt one once you built your new one
< 1293764120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: OR HOW ABOUT THIS JUST USE THE 32-BIT ONE
< 1293764122 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so get that single macports lib
< 1293764127 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, THAT IS GIVING IN!
< 1293764128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than single. much more
< 1293764130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would also involve macports perl
< 1293764139 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, chroot for it?
< 1293764143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I wanted to do it 64-bit, I'd LOOK AT THE MACPORTS BUILD SCRIPT to figure out how it does it
< 1293764154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: macports already does everything in /opt/local so that would be pointless.
< 1293764154 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah
< 1293764157 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229028122.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293764159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also making an OS X chroot sounds "fun"
< 1293764167 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well then easy to clean up after!
< 1293764181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm -rf /opt/local
< 1293764200 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, quite
< 1293764203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, there is Gentoo/Interix
< 1293764209 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what...
< 1293764210 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1293764214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on gentoo prefix
< 1293764222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interix
< 1293764222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo/Interix (eprefix) is a port of Gentoo that runs atop the Interix Subsystem for Windows which is also known as Microsoft Windows Services for UNIX (SFU) or Subsystem for Unix-based Applications (SUA).
< 1293764222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A result of the Gentoo/Interix project is the ability to install and use the Portage system to emerge native Windows applications (requires Visual Studio, 2008 Express Edition will do too). However, this feature does not support the wide variety of packages supported by other platforms (including Interix).
< 1293764231 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I bet there is like one guy using it. The maintainer
< 1293764242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'd write something like that without any intention of using it just for the lulz :)
< 1293764253 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe
< 1293764266 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'd doubt you would touch gentoo though
< 1293764278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no.
< 1293764284 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, otherwise I charge you to do Gentoo/Hurd (unless this is done?)
< 1293764295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: apparently the port to gnu hurd was abandoned (for gentoo/alt)
< 1293764300 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD
< 1293764307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interix support but no HURD
< 1293764314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again hurd guys are basically in bed with debian so i'm not surprised
< 1293764324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although arch/hurd exists now, thanks to arch people being idiots with nothing better to do
< 1293764344 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293764353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: re - segfaults
< 1293764357 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes?
< 1293764400 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes?
< 1293764402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: here in OS X land we live in a land of perfect solutions. that is why we use a modified 4.3BSD kernel running on top of Mach, with a FreeBSD userland, running a windowing system which renders using PDFs.
< 1293764409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it Just Makes Sense!
< 1293764423 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, doesn't quartz use opengl?
< 1293764424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, Quartz is Display PostScript: The PDF Version)
< 1293764431 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1293764434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes
< 1293764436 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
< 1293764438 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293764443 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ... to render the PDF:s :P
< 1293764449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1293764450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[It is widely stated that Quartz "uses PDF" internally, often by people making comparisons with the Display PostScript technology used in NeXTSTEP (of which Mac OS X is a descendant) and OPENSTEP. Quartz's internal imaging model correlates well with the PDF object graph, making it easy to output PDF to multiple devices.[6]]]
< 1293764454 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, doesn't the pdf stuff slow down a LOT
< 1293764458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: see above
< 1293764461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not _actually_ PDFs
< 1293764468 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew
< 1293764471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: fun fact, before OS X 10.4 or so, the default OS X screenshot format was .pdf
< 1293764483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actual, scalable PDF ... apart from all the bitmaps used in the UI that made it utterly pointless
< 1293764490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, you actually got screenshots ending in .pdf.
< 1293764508 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :D
< 1293764521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: despite all of this insanity, it's better than X11 :)
< 1293764522 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it was used to make actually scalable UI:s, it'd be pretty awesome
< 1293764528 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, doesn't OS X use scalable icons and so on?
< 1293764531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no
< 1293764532 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so where are the bitmaps?
< 1293764546 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but look in finder on program icons. They are scalable
< 1293764547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: UI elements are bitmaps, icons are (512px or something) bitmaps
< 1293764550 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293764552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, they're just really huge bitmaps
< 1293764556 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I see
< 1293764556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rendered in multiple sizes
< 1293764560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1293764560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1293764563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not rendered in multiple sizes
< 1293764564 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, even linux uses svg nowdays
< 1293764566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno why i said that
< 1293764568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not really
< 1293764573 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it can
< 1293764575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, but it doesn't
< 1293764582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a regular default-gnome or tango setup won't use svg
< 1293764587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though the option is available
< 1293764590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there's faster rendered bitmaps
< 1293764618 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually, I looked at readahead files from ubuntu. It does load a handful of *.svg
< 1293764624 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, more *.png though
< 1293764639 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think computer.svg got loaded by gdm for example
< 1293764681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VROOOM IM A JET ENGINE VROOOOM VROOOM COMPILING VROOOOM
< 1293764689 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, TABLE!
< 1293764695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VROOOOOOOOOOM
< 1293764702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it makes a noise even when i hold it up :P
< 1293764716 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well duh. But future kids
< 1293764720 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1293764722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also little molecules of dirt are sweating off my palms onto the aluminium ... lovely. guess that's why they use plastic
< 1293764726 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KEEP IT IN YOUR LAP!
< 1293764739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't think me reproducing would give very good prospects as to the estimated further lifespan of the universe
< 1293764747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got lucky, I'm not *100%* evil.
< 1293764756 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, only 95% yes
< 1293764774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also they'd be little versions of me, and god knows I irritate myself enough already.
< 1293764782 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pfft.  he's a comparative teddy bear to 100% evil
< 1293764799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: you don't understand how *nice* 100% evil can be
< 1293764846 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why is the ghc evil mangler written in perl
< 1293764856 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh maybe i do and realize that your occasional dickwaddery moves you closer to averagely evil
< 1293764859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because FUCK YEAH LITERATE PERL FILE RUNNING REGEXPS ON C COMPILER OUTPUT
< 1293764871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: hmm darn
< 1293764872 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why not write it in haskell
< 1293764880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to be really nice from now on and then slit everyone's throat
< 1293764888 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also, literate perl!? that's even more wtf
< 1293764892 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good new year's resolution
< 1293764900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because that'd make porting even more of a pain. also, because haskell probably didn't have too good regexp support at the time :P
< 1293764905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah, they wrote their own literate perl processor
< 1293764911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: note: it is only used when compiling via C.
< 1293764916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not the recommended way to do things usually
< 1293764931 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well once it was the only way?
< 1293764935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-fvia-C really means "use the C compiler as a code generator, and then strip out all the C function bits from it"
< 1293764937 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we're on the subject of painful theme songs..
< 1293764941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no.
< 1293764949 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D
< 1293764960 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, that was ages ago. topic closed.
< 1293764977 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the evil mangler was also ages ago
< 1293764985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: but that doesn't involve Sgeo singing
< 1293764986 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more ages than bad themes
< 1293764987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"singing"
< 1293764991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: so SHUT UP
< 1293764996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop being That Guy!
< 1293765005 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is worse, the SGI theme or my singing?
< 1293765010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: YOU
< 1293765024 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's SGI?
< 1293765043 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67E-_SQLVRo
< 1293765053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: DO NOT CLICK
< 1293765059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst music ever
< 1293765061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to worst series ever
< 1293765087 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1293765089 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : stop being That Guy! <-- ??
< 1293765108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That Guy.
< 1293765121 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a reference I do not get.
< 1293765130 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, though it does sound familiar
< 1293765130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even really a reference :P
< 1293765131 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stargate infiiiinity-ity-ity-ity-ity
< 1293765140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stargate infinititty lol
< 1293765142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ humor
< 1293765152 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh thanks for labelling it
< 1293765162 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, speaking of music that is actually good though it really feels like it shouldn't be: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc
< 1293765169 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinititty? that sounds like something worth watching
< 1293765171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: its so u recognise
< 1293765171 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it made it funny hahaha yes it did
< 1293765171 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: that was the first line speaking of it)
< 1293765178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: dude /I/ linked you to that
< 1293765184 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, but not recently
< 1293765191 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and it is widely spread really
< 1293765192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yes it was a funny humorus
< 1293765223 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :breaking humeri is funny too
< 1293765237 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yuck, there's autotune in it
< 1293765251 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, true. He /spoke/ that.
< 1293765256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you expect Carl Sagan to sing properly in a TV series? :D
< 1293765257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg
< 1293765260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would have been so much better
< 1293765263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he just sang all the time for no reason
< 1293765276 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Universe: The Musical
< 1293765282 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is the first bit from "I'm not great good at singing but here is a try"
< 1293765289 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is it from that series or?
< 1293765291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"RIP Carl. Fuck off to all those low-life career theoretical physicists."
< 1293765293 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a glorious dawn is actually still my favorite melodysheep track
< 1293765294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: All of it is :P
< 1293765295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--YouTube
< 1293765296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i
< 1293765301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :low-life career theoretical physicists
< 1293765303 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even despite the hundreds of others now
< 1293765305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a phrase i never ever expected to read
< 1293765305 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so he /did/ sing in it?
< 1293765309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no.
< 1293765311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its the whalesong
< 1293765312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it's
< 1293765320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever it is
< 1293765328 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err, I haven't watched the series (it is on my todo list)
< 1293765331 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so what whalesong?
< 1293765335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the Whoop-booo he does at the start
< 1293765341 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "I'm not very good at singing whale songs, but I'll give it a dtry."
< 1293765344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right.
< 1293765351 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293765351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stephen Hawking should do a rap album after that bridge in A Glorious Dawn
< 1293765355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would buy it
< 1293765365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might have to hack up his software a bit though :-P
< 1293765366 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: MC Hawking.  it's hilarious.
< 1293765370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I know
< 1293765375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'd be better if he actually did it
< 1293765383 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but he wouldn't
< 1293765387 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1293765400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: how do you know
< 1293765403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stephen hawking is BADASS
< 1293765412 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, why not? seems like a fun thing to do
< 1293765420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit GHC compile faster, I need to go to the toilet
< 1293765434 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you can't leave it unattended?
< 1293765435 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he's not studying it?  he's thinking about math n shit?
< 1293765437 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, PUT IT ON THE FLOOR?
< 1293765445 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, shift stuck
< 1293765449 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially for someone who can't really talk, and can barely do it through text-to-speech, rapping would be pretty awesome
< 1293765455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no i'm just scared to leave it alone in case it becomes sentient
< 1293765455 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I need to clean keyboard
< 1293765458 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get off your ath and do some math.  math, math, math, math, math
< 1293765466 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hit ctrl-z to pause it?
< 1293765466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: only valid if he does it in real time though
< 1293765469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :work that throat yo
< 1293765472 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, will ALSO cool down the thing
< 1293765474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i don't trust that to work reliably :)
< 1293765478 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ... what?
< 1293765483 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, when has that ever broken?
< 1293765483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'M SCARED OF GHC
< 1293765505 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, dude, a program can't trap the relevant signal, unless it is pid 1
< 1293765509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCARED
< 1293765526 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to spend time with your new build so it doesn't end up a misanthropist
< 1293765533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: he wouldn't have any trouble actually rapping though
< 1293765538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just add some sleep()s into his software to wait for a beat
< 1293765545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact
< 1293765548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he should just never turn it off
< 1293765550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and rap all of his interviews
< 1293765581 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including end rhyme, mid rhyme, and ghetto slang
< 1293765819 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, no need for the latter. Just do it as nerdcore
< 1293765854 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nerdcore can still get crunk up in the hizzouse
< 1293765867 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, if you haven't seen it already: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nigRT2KmCE (I don't like rap in general, but this is an exception)
< 1293765879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure *everyone* knows who MC Frontalot is :P
< 1293765886 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sure, but that song?
< 1293765892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gangster christian nerdcore I would go for
< 1293765897 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like   LOL money
< 1293765898 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah
< 1293765906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(christian gangster rap was one of the nullsoft genres)
< 1293765927 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of frontalot before
< 1293765961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is with j-invariant 

< 1293765995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: comfortable rock is it?
< 1293765997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one you live under
< 1293766003 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really.
< 1293766034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: want a cushion?
< 1293766119 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Already got one
< 1293766178 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh no. You made him go to sleep. Now I have to provide the puns.
< 1293766184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god
< 1293766193 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice track
< 1293766204 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal:
< 1293766213 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, mmm
< 1293766308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latest xkcd 's title text is FRCTACUTALLY INATTCCURATE!!!!!1
< 1293766314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :putty is not just for windows
< 1293766339 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best kind of inaccurate?
< 1293766372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1293766381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"/Users/ehird/Downloads/ghc-7.0.1/inplace/bin/haddock" --odir="compiler/stage2/doc/html/ghc" --no-tmp-comp-dir --dump-interface=compiler/stage2/doc/html/ghc/ghc.haddock --html --title="ghc-7.0.1: The GHC API" --prologue="compiler/stage2/haddock-prologue.txt"  --read-interface=../Cabal-1.10.0.0,../Cabal-1.10.0.0/src/%{MODULE/./-}.html\#%{NAME},libraries/Cabal/dist-install/doc/html/Cabal/Cabal.haddock --read-interface=../array-0.3.0.2,.
< 1293766381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./array-0.3.0.2/src/%{MODULE/./-}.html\#%{NAME},libraries/array/dist-install/doc/html/array/array.haddock --read-interface=../base-4.3.0.0,../base-4.3.0.0/src/%{MODULE/./-}.html\#%{NAME},libraries/base/dist-install/doc/html/base/base.haddock --read-interface=../bin-package-db-0.0.0.0,../bin-package-db-0.0.0.0/src/%{MODULE/./-}.html\#%{NAME},libraries/bin-package-db/dist-install/doc/html/bin-package-db/bin-package-db.haddock --read-int
< 1293766381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erface=../bytestring-0.9.1.8,../bytestring-0.9.1.8/src/%{MODULE/./-}.html\#%{NAME},libraries/bytestring/dist-install/doc/html/bytestring/bytestring.haddock --read-interface=../containers-0.4.0.0,../containers-0.4.0.0/src/%{MODULE/./-}.html\#%{NAME},libraries/containers/dist-install/doc/html/containers/containers.haddock --read-interface=../directory-1.1.0.0,../directory-1.1.0.0/src/%{MODULE/./-}.html\#%{NAME},libraries/directory/dist-
< 1293766383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :install/doc/html/directory/directory.haddock --read-interface=../filepath-1.2.0.0,../filepath-1.2.0.0/src/%{MODULE/./-}.html\#%{NAME},libraries/filepath/dist-install/doc/html/filepath/filepath.haddock --read-interface=../hpc-0.5.0.6,../hpc-0.5.0.6/src/%{MODULE/./-}.html\#%{NAME},libraries/hpc/dist-install/doc/html/hpc/hpc.haddock --read-interface=../old-time-1.0.0.6,../old-time-1.0.0.6/src/%{MODULE/./-}.html\#%{NAME},libraries/old-tim
< 1293766385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e/dist-install/doc/html/old-time/old-time.haddock --read-interface=../process-1.0.1.4,../process-1.0.1.4/src/%{MODULE/./-}.html\#%{NAME},libraries/process/dist-install/doc/html/process/process.haddock --read-interface=../template-haskell-2.5.0.0,../template-haskell-2.5.0.0/src/%{MODULE/./-}.html\#%{NAME},libraries/template-haskell/dist-install/doc/html/template-haskell/template-haskell.haddock --read-interface=../unix-2.4.1.0,../unix-
< 1293766387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.4.1.0/src/%{MODULE/./-}.html\#%{NAME},libraries/unix/dist-install/doc/html/unix/unix.haddock --optghc=-H32m --optghc=-O --optghc=-package-name --optghc=ghc-7.0.1 --optghc=-hide-all-packages --optghc=-i --optghc=-icompiler/basicTypes --optghc=-icompiler/cmm --optghc=-icompiler/codeGen --optghc=-icompiler/coreSyn --optghc=-icompiler/deSugar --optghc=-icompiler/ghci --optghc=-icompiler/hsSyn --optghc=-icompiler/iface --optghc=-icompile
< 1293766389 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't decide if the title text or the comic itself is stupider.  but i know i don't care to look at again to try to decide
< 1293766389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r/llvmGen --optghc=-icompiler/main --optghc=-icompiler/nativeGen --optghc=-icompiler/parser --optghc=-icompiler/prelude --optghc=-icompiler/profiling --optghc=-icompiler/rename --optghc=-icompiler/simplCore --optghc=-icompiler/simplStg --optghc=-icompiler/specialise --optghc=-icompiler/stgSyn --optghc=-icompiler/stranal --optghc=-icompiler/typecheck --optghc=-icompiler/types --optghc=-icompiler/utils --optghc=-icompiler/vectorise --op
< 1293766391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tghc=-icompiler/stage2/build --optghc=-icompiler/stage2/build/autogen --optghc=-Icompiler/stage2/build --optghc=-Icompiler/stage2/build/autogen --optghc=-Icompiler/../libffi/build/include --optghc=-Icompiler/stage2 --optghc=-Icompiler/../libraries/base/cbits --optghc=-Icompiler/../libraries/base/include --optghc=-Icompiler/. --optghc=-Icompiler/parser --optghc=-Icompiler/utils --optghc=-optP-DGHCI --optghc=-optP-include --optghc=-optP
< 1293766393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiler/stage2/build/autogen/cabal_macros.h --optghc=-package --optghc=Cabal-1.10.0.0 --optghc=-package --optghc=array-0.3.0.2 --optghc=-package --optghc=base-4.3.0.0 --optghc=-package --optghc=bin-package-db-0.0.0.0 --optghc=-package --optghc=bytestring-0.9.1.8 --optghc=-package --optghc=containers-0.4.0.0 --optghc=-package --optghc=directory-1.1.0.0 --optghc=-package --optghc=filepath-1.2.0.0 --optghc=-package --optghc=hpc-0.5.0.6
< 1293766395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--optghc=-package --optghc=old-time-1.0.0.6 --optghc=-package --optghc=process-1.0.1.4 --optghc=-package --optghc=template-haskell-2.5.0.0 --optghc=-package --optghc=unix-2.4.1.0 --optghc=-Wall --optghc=-fno-warn-name-shadowing --optghc=-fno-warn-orphans --optghc=-XCPP --optghc=-XMagicHash --optghc=-XUnboxedTuples --optghc=-XPatternGuards --optghc=-XForeignFunctionInterface --optghc=-XEmptyDataDecls --optghc=-XTypeSynonymInstances --o
< 1293766397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ptghc=-XMultiParamTypeClasses --optghc=-XFlexibleInstances --optghc=-XRank2Types --optghc=-XScopedTypeVariables --optghc=-XDeriveDataTypeable --optghc=-DGHCI_TABLES_NEXT_TO_CODE --optghc=-DSTAGE=2 --optghc=-no-user-package-conf --optghc=-rtsopts --optghc=-O2 --optghc=-odir --optghc=compiler/stage2/build --optghc=-hidir --optghc=compiler/stage2/build --optghc=-stubdir --optghc=compiler/stage2/build --optghc=-hisuf --optghc=hi --optghc=
< 1293766399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-osuf --optghc=o --optghc=-hcsuf --optghc=hc --source-module=src/%{MODULE/./-}.html --source-entity=src/%{MODULE/./-}.html#%{NAME} --optghc=-DSTAGE=2  compiler/nativeGen/AsmCodeGen.lhs  compiler/nativeGen/TargetReg.hs  compiler/nativeGen/NCGMonad.hs  compiler/nativeGen/Instruction.hs  compiler/nativeGen/Size.hs  compiler/nativeGen/Reg.hs  compiler/nativeGen/RegClass.hs  compiler/nativeGen/PIC.hs  compiler/nativeGen/Platform.hs  compil
< 1293766401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er/nativeGen/Alpha/Regs.hs  compiler/nativeGen/Alpha/RegInfo.hs  compiler/nativeGen/Alpha/Instr.hs  compiler/nativeGen/Alpha/CodeGen.hs  compiler/nativeGen/X86/Regs.hs  compiler/nativeGen/X86/RegInfo.hs  compiler/nativeGen/X86/Instr.hs  compiler/nativeGen/X86/Cond.hs  compiler/nativeGen/X86/Ppr.hs  compiler/nativeGen/X86/CodeGen.hs  compiler/nativeGen/PPC/Regs.hs  compiler/nativeGen/PPC/RegInfo.hs  compiler/nativeGen/PPC/Instr.hs  com
< 1293766403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :piler/nativeGen/PPC/Cond.hs  compiler/nativeGen/PPC/Ppr.hs  compiler/nativeGen/PPC/CodeGen.hs  compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/Base.hs  compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/Regs.hs  compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/RegPlate.hs  compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/Imm.hs  compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/AddrMode.hs  compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/Cond.hs  compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/Instr.hs  compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/Stack.hs  compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/ShortcutJump.hs  compiler/nativeGen/S
< 1293766404 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, xkcd is not always accurate - for example the tic-tac-toe one had errors in the drawings
< 1293766405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PARC/Ppr.hs  compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/CodeGen.hs  compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/CodeGen/Amode.hs  compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/CodeGen/Base.hs  compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/CodeGen/CCall.hs  compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/CodeGen/CondCode.hs  compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/CodeGen/Gen32.hs  compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/CodeGen/Gen64.hs  compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/CodeGen/Sanity.hs  compiler/nativeGen/SPARC/CodeGen/Expand.hs  compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Liveness.hs
< 1293766407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Graph/Main.hs  compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Graph/Stats.hs  compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Graph/ArchBase.hs  compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Graph/ArchX86.hs  compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Graph/Coalesce.hs  compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Graph/Spill.hs  compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Graph/SpillClean.hs  compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Graph/SpillCost.hs  compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Graph/TrivColorable.hs  compiler/nativeGe
< 1293766409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/RegAlloc/Linear/Main.hs  compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Linear/JoinToTargets.hs  compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Linear/State.hs  compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Linear/Stats.hs  compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Linear/FreeRegs.hs  compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Linear/StackMap.hs  compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Linear/Base.hs  compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Linear/X86/FreeRegs.hs  compiler/nativeGen/RegAlloc/Linear/PPC/FreeRegs.hs  compiler/nativeGen/RegAl
< 1293766410 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn i wish i could kick
< 1293766411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loc/Linear/SPARC/FreeRegs.hs  compiler/deSugar/DsMeta.hs  compiler/typecheck/TcSplice.lhs  compiler/hsSyn/Convert.lhs  compiler/ghci/ByteCodeAsm.lhs  compiler/ghci/ByteCodeFFI.lhs  compiler/ghci/ByteCodeGen.lhs  compiler/ghci/ByteCodeInstr.lhs  compiler/ghci/ByteCodeItbls.lhs  compiler/ghci/ByteCodeLink.lhs  compiler/ghci/Debugger.hs  compiler/stage2/build/LibFFI.hs  compiler/ghci/Linker.lhs  compiler/ghci/ObjLink.lhs  compiler/ghci/R
< 1293766413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tClosureInspect.hs  compiler/basicTypes/BasicTypes.lhs  compiler/basicTypes/DataCon.lhs  compiler/basicTypes/Demand.lhs  compiler/utils/Exception.hs  compiler/basicTypes/Id.lhs  compiler/basicTypes/IdInfo.lhs  compiler/basicTypes/Literal.lhs  compiler/llvmGen/Llvm.hs  compiler/llvmGen/Llvm/AbsSyn.hs  compiler/llvmGen/Llvm/PpLlvm.hs  compiler/llvmGen/Llvm/Types.hs  compiler/llvmGen/LlvmCodeGen.hs  compiler/llvmGen/LlvmCodeGen/Base.hs
< 1293766415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiler/llvmGen/LlvmCodeGen/CodeGen.hs  compiler/llvmGen/LlvmCodeGen/Data.hs  compiler/llvmGen/LlvmCodeGen/Ppr.hs  compiler/llvmGen/LlvmCodeGen/Regs.hs  compiler/llvmGen/LlvmMangler.hs  compiler/basicTypes/MkId.lhs  compiler/basicTypes/Module.lhs  compiler/basicTypes/Name.lhs  compiler/basicTypes/NameEnv.lhs  compiler/basicTypes/NameSet.lhs  compiler/basicTypes/OccName.lhs  compiler/basicTypes/RdrName.lhs  compiler/basicTypes/SrcLoc.
< 1293766417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lhs  compiler/basicTypes/UniqSupply.lhs  compiler/basicTypes/Unique.lhs  compiler/basicTypes/Var.lhs  compiler/basicTypes/VarEnv.lhs  compiler/basicTypes/VarSet.lhs  compiler/cmm/BlockId.hs  compiler/cmm/CLabel.hs  compiler/cmm/Cmm.hs  compiler/cmm/CmmBrokenBlock.hs  compiler/cmm/CmmBuildInfoTables.hs  compiler/cmm/CmmCPS.hs  compiler/cmm/CmmCPSGen.hs  compiler/cmm/CmmCPSZ.hs  compiler/cmm/CmmCallConv.hs  compiler/cmm/CmmCommonBlockEl
< 1293766419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imZ.hs  compiler/cmm/CmmContFlowOpt.hs  compiler/cmm/CmmCvt.hs  compiler/cmm/CmmExpr.hs  compiler/cmm/CmmInfo.hs  compiler/cmm/CmmLex.hs  compiler/cmm/CmmLint.hs  compiler/cmm/CmmLive.hs  compiler/cmm/CmmLiveZ.hs  compiler/cmm/CmmOpt.hs  compiler/cmm/CmmParse.hs  compiler/cmm/CmmProcPoint.hs  compiler/cmm/CmmProcPointZ.hs  compiler/cmm/CmmSpillReload.hs  compiler/cmm/CmmStackLayout.hs  compiler/cmm/CmmTx.hs  compiler/cmm/CmmUtils.hs
< 1293766421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiler/cmm/CmmZipUtil.hs  compiler/cmm/DFMonad.hs  compiler/cmm/Dataflow.hs  compiler/cmm/MkZipCfg.hs  compiler/cmm/MkZipCfgCmm.hs  compiler/cmm/OptimizationFuel.hs  compiler/nativeGen/PprBase.hs  compiler/cmm/PprC.hs  compiler/cmm/PprCmm.hs  compiler/cmm/PprCmmZ.hs  compiler/cmm/StackColor.hs  compiler/cmm/StackPlacements.hs  compiler/cmm/ZipCfg.hs  compiler/cmm/ZipCfgCmmRep.hs  compiler/cmm/ZipCfgExtras.hs  compiler/cmm/ZipDataflo
< 1293766423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w.hs  compiler/codeGen/Bitmap.hs  compiler/codeGen/CgBindery.lhs  compiler/codeGen/CgCallConv.hs  compiler/codeGen/CgCase.lhs  compiler/codeGen/CgClosure.lhs  compiler/codeGen/CgCon.lhs  compiler/codeGen/CgExpr.lhs  compiler/codeGen/CgExtCode.hs  compiler/codeGen/CgForeignCall.hs  compiler/codeGen/CgHeapery.lhs  compiler/codeGen/CgHpc.hs  compiler/codeGen/CgInfoTbls.hs  compiler/codeGen/CgLetNoEscape.lhs  compiler/codeGen/CgMonad.lhs
< 1293766425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : compiler/codeGen/CgParallel.hs  compiler/codeGen/CgPrimOp.hs  compiler/codeGen/CgProf.hs  compiler/codeGen/CgStackery.lhs  compiler/codeGen/CgTailCall.lhs  compiler/codeGen/CgTicky.hs  compiler/codeGen/CgUtils.hs  compiler/codeGen/StgCmm.hs  compiler/codeGen/StgCmmBind.hs  compiler/codeGen/StgCmmClosure.hs  compiler/codeGen/StgCmmCon.hs  compiler/codeGen/StgCmmEnv.hs  compiler/codeGen/StgCmmExpr.hs  compiler/codeGen/StgCmmForeign.hs
< 1293766427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : compiler/codeGen/StgCmmGran.hs  compiler/codeGen/StgCmmHeap.hs  compiler/codeGen/StgCmmHpc.hs  compiler/codeGen/StgCmmLayout.hs  compiler/codeGen/StgCmmMonad.hs  compiler/codeGen/StgCmmPrim.hs  compiler/codeGen/StgCmmProf.hs  compiler/codeGen/StgCmmTicky.hs  compiler/codeGen/StgCmmUtils.hs  compiler/codeGen/ClosureInfo.lhs  compiler/codeGen/CodeGen.lhs  compiler/codeGen/SMRep.lhs  compiler/coreSyn/CoreArity.lhs  compiler/coreSyn/Core
< 1293766428 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF http://www.itv.com/news/100-car-pile-up-in-usa67788/
< 1293766429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FVs.lhs  compiler/coreSyn/CoreLint.lhs  compiler/coreSyn/CorePrep.lhs  compiler/coreSyn/CoreSubst.lhs  compiler/coreSyn/CoreSyn.lhs  compiler/coreSyn/CoreTidy.lhs  compiler/coreSyn/CoreUnfold.lhs  compiler/coreSyn/CoreUtils.lhs  compiler/coreSyn/ExternalCore.lhs  compiler/coreSyn/MkCore.lhs  compiler/coreSyn/MkExternalCore.lhs  compiler/coreSyn/PprCore.lhs  compiler/coreSyn/PprExternalCore.lhs  compiler/deSugar/Check.lhs  compiler/deS
< 1293766431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugar/Coverage.lhs  compiler/deSugar/Desugar.lhs  compiler/deSugar/DsArrows.lhs  compiler/deSugar/DsBinds.lhs  compiler/deSugar/DsCCall.lhs  compiler/deSugar/DsExpr.lhs  compiler/deSugar/DsForeign.lhs  compiler/deSugar/DsGRHSs.lhs  compiler/deSugar/DsListComp.lhs  compiler/deSugar/DsMonad.lhs  compiler/deSugar/DsUtils.lhs  compiler/deSugar/Match.lhs  compiler/deSugar/MatchCon.lhs  compiler/deSugar/MatchLit.lhs  compiler/hsSyn/HsBinds.l
< 1293766432 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, spam - much?
< 1293766432 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, shut up
< 1293766432 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, spam - much?
< 1293766433 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, spam - much?
< 1293766433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hs  compiler/hsSyn/HsDecls.lhs  compiler/hsSyn/HsDoc.hs  compiler/hsSyn/HsExpr.lhs  compiler/hsSyn/HsImpExp.lhs  compiler/hsSyn/HsLit.lhs  compiler/hsSyn/HsPat.lhs  compiler/hsSyn/HsSyn.lhs  compiler/hsSyn/HsTypes.lhs  compiler/hsSyn/HsUtils.lhs  compiler/iface/BinIface.hs  compiler/iface/BuildTyCl.lhs  compiler/iface/IfaceEnv.lhs  compiler/iface/IfaceSyn.lhs  compiler/iface/IfaceType.lhs  compiler/iface/LoadIface.lhs  compiler/iface/
< 1293766433 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what an asshole
< 1293766435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MkIface.lhs  compiler/iface/TcIface.lhs  compiler/main/Annotations.lhs  compiler/main/BreakArray.hs  compiler/main/CmdLineParser.hs  compiler/main/CodeOutput.lhs  compiler/stage2/build/Config.hs  compiler/main/Constants.lhs  compiler/main/DriverMkDepend.hs  compiler/main/DriverPhases.hs  compiler/main/DriverPipeline.hs  compiler/main/DynFlags.hs  compiler/main/ErrUtils.lhs  compiler/main/Finder.lhs  compiler/main/GHC.hs  compiler/main
< 1293766437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/HeaderInfo.hs  compiler/main/HscMain.lhs  compiler/main/HscStats.lhs  compiler/main/HscTypes.lhs  compiler/main/InteractiveEval.hs  compiler/main/PackageConfig.hs  compiler/main/Packages.lhs  compiler/main/PprTyThing.hs  compiler/main/StaticFlags.hs  compiler/main/StaticFlagParser.hs  compiler/main/SysTools.lhs  compiler/main/TidyPgm.lhs  compiler/parser/Ctype.lhs  compiler/parser/HaddockUtils.hs  compiler/parser/LexCore.hs  compiler
< 1293766439 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HASKAL?
< 1293766439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/parser/Lexer.hs  compiler/types/OptCoercion.lhs  compiler/parser/Parser.hs  compiler/parser/ParserCore.hs  compiler/parser/ParserCoreUtils.hs  compiler/parser/RdrHsSyn.lhs  compiler/prelude/ForeignCall.lhs  compiler/prelude/PrelInfo.lhs  compiler/prelude/PrelNames.lhs  compiler/prelude/PrelRules.lhs  compiler/prelude/PrimOp.lhs  compiler/prelude/TysPrim.lhs  compiler/prelude/TysWiredIn.lhs  compiler/profiling/CostCentre.lhs  compiler
< 1293766441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/profiling/SCCfinal.lhs  compiler/rename/RnBinds.lhs  compiler/rename/RnEnv.lhs  compiler/rename/RnExpr.lhs  compiler/rename/RnHsDoc.hs  compiler/rename/RnHsSyn.lhs  compiler/rename/RnNames.lhs  compiler/rename/RnPat.lhs  compiler/rename/RnSource.lhs  compiler/rename/RnTypes.lhs  compiler/simplCore/CoreMonad.lhs  compiler/simplCore/CSE.lhs  compiler/simplCore/FloatIn.lhs  compiler/simplCore/FloatOut.lhs  compiler/simplCore/LiberateCas
< 1293766443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.lhs  compiler/simplCore/OccurAnal.lhs  compiler/simplCore/SAT.lhs  compiler/simplCore/SetLevels.lhs  compiler/simplCore/SimplCore.lhs  compiler/simplCore/SimplEnv.lhs  compiler/simplCore/SimplMonad.lhs  compiler/simplCore/SimplUtils.lhs  compiler/simplCore/Simplify.lhs  compiler/simplStg/SRT.lhs  compiler/simplStg/SimplStg.lhs  compiler/simplStg/StgStats.lhs  compiler/specialise/Rules.lhs  compiler/specialise/SpecConstr.lhs  compile
< 1293766445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r/specialise/Specialise.lhs  compiler/stgSyn/CoreToStg.lhs  compiler/stgSyn/StgLint.lhs  compiler/stgSyn/StgSyn.lhs  compiler/stranal/DmdAnal.lhs  compiler/stranal/WorkWrap.lhs  compiler/stranal/WwLib.lhs  compiler/typecheck/FamInst.lhs  compiler/typecheck/Inst.lhs  compiler/typecheck/TcAnnotations.lhs  compiler/typecheck/TcArrows.lhs  compiler/typecheck/TcBinds.lhs  compiler/typecheck/TcClassDcl.lhs  compiler/typecheck/TcDefaults.lhs
< 1293766447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  compiler/typecheck/TcDeriv.lhs  compiler/typecheck/TcEnv.lhs  compiler/typecheck/TcExpr.lhs  compiler/typecheck/TcForeign.lhs  compiler/typecheck/TcGenDeriv.lhs  compiler/typecheck/TcHsSyn.lhs  compiler/typecheck/TcHsType.lhs  compiler/typecheck/TcInstDcls.lhs  compiler/typecheck/TcMType.lhs  compiler/typecheck/TcMatches.lhs  compiler/typecheck/TcPat.lhs  compiler/typecheck/TcRnDriver.lhs  compiler/typecheck/TcRnMonad.lhs  compiler/
< 1293766449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typecheck/TcRnTypes.lhs  compiler/typecheck/TcRules.lhs  compiler/typecheck/TcSimplify.lhs  compiler/typecheck/TcErrors.lhs  compiler/typecheck/TcTyClsDecls.lhs  compiler/typecheck/TcTyDecls.lhs  compiler/typecheck/TcType.lhs  compiler/typecheck/TcUnify.lhs  compiler/typecheck/TcInteract.lhs  compiler/typecheck/TcCanonical.lhs  compiler/typecheck/TcSMonad.lhs  compiler/types/Class.lhs  compiler/types/Coercion.lhs  compiler/types/FamIn
< 1293766451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stEnv.lhs  compiler/types/FunDeps.lhs  compiler/types/Generics.lhs  compiler/types/InstEnv.lhs  compiler/types/TyCon.lhs  compiler/types/Type.lhs  compiler/types/TypeRep.lhs  compiler/types/Unify.lhs  compiler/utils/Bag.lhs  compiler/utils/Binary.hs  compiler/utils/BufWrite.hs  compiler/utils/Digraph.lhs  compiler/utils/Encoding.hs  compiler/utils/FastBool.lhs  compiler/utils/FastFunctions.lhs  compiler/utils/FastMutInt.lhs  compiler/
< 1293766453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :utils/FastString.lhs  compiler/utils/FastTypes.lhs  compiler/stage2/build/Fingerprint.hs  compiler/utils/FiniteMap.lhs  compiler/utils/GraphBase.hs  compiler/utils/GraphColor.hs  compiler/utils/GraphOps.hs  compiler/utils/GraphPpr.hs  compiler/utils/IOEnv.hs  compiler/utils/Interval.hs  compiler/utils/ListSetOps.lhs  compiler/utils/Maybes.lhs  compiler/utils/MonadUtils.hs  compiler/utils/OrdList.lhs  compiler/utils/Outputable.lhs  com
< 1293766455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :piler/utils/Panic.lhs  compiler/utils/Pretty.lhs  compiler/utils/Serialized.hs  compiler/utils/State.hs  compiler/utils/StringBuffer.lhs  compiler/utils/UniqFM.lhs  compiler/utils/UniqSet.lhs  compiler/utils/Util.lhs  compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Builtins/Base.hs  compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Builtins/Initialise.hs  compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Builtins/Modules.hs  compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Builtins/Prelude.hs  compiler/vectorise/V
< 1293766457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ectorise/Builtins.hs  compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Monad/Base.hs  compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Monad/Naming.hs  compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Monad/Local.hs  compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Monad/Global.hs  compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Monad/InstEnv.hs  compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Monad.hs  compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Utils/Base.hs  compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Utils/Closure.hs  compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Utils/Hoisting.hs  compiler/v
< 1293766458 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks he accidentally copy/pasted and now can't stop it 

< 1293766459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ectorise/Vectorise/Utils/PADict.hs  compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Utils/PRDict.hs  compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Utils/Poly.hs  compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Utils.hs  compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Type/Env.hs  compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Type/Repr.hs  compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Type/PData.hs  compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Type/PRepr.hs  compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Type/PADict.hs  compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Type/PRDict.hs  compiler/v
< 1293766461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ectorise/Vectorise/Type/Type.hs  compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Type/TyConDecl.hs  compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Type/Classify.hs  compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Convert.hs  compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Vect.hs  compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Var.hs  compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Env.hs  compiler/vectorise/Vectorise/Exp.hs  compiler/vectorise/Vectorise.hs
< 1293766463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit
< 1293766465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i
< 1293766467 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks he accidentally copy/pasted and now can't stop it 

< 1293766467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had no idea how long that would be
< 1293766469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just copied one compilation line to mock ghc
< 1293766471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus christ
< 1293766473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it doing
< 1293766480 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, there's always ways to stop copy/paste
< 1293766486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry if that spammed
< 1293766491 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, force disconnect
< 1293766498 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even /part won't stop it
< 1293766502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow that is a lot of lines, i didn't even look that far back
< 1293766509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry
< 1293766510 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't decide if the title text or the comic itself is stupider.  but i know i don't care to look at again to try to decide
< 1293766515 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, xkcd is not always accurate - for example the tic-tac-toe one had errors in the drawings
< 1293766518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re:
< 1293766519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: elliott, xkcd is not always accurate - for example the tic-tac-toe one had errors in the drawings
< 1293766521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i saw it :)
< 1293766528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: I wouldn't mind, if only it was funny
< 1293766543 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, blasphemer
< 1293766548 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you dare call xkcd NOT funny ?
< 1293766558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: yeah ... it really isn't
< 1293766561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was great before comic 400.
< 1293766564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afterwards, not so much so.
< 1293766568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lately, absolute crap.
< 1293766572 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION needs FOOD

< 1293766575 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nope - that's a cognitive bias
< 1293766577 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FEED ME
< 1293766582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: lol
< 1293766584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: seriously?
< 1293766586 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, awesome movie
< 1293766588 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* play
< 1293766589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that how you respond to criticism of work?
< 1293766592 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, hmm?
< 1293766596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You DON'T LIKE XKCD? It's because your brain's broken."
< 1293766601 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nope
< 1293766610 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you missed what I as refering to as the bias
< 1293766614 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think... I accidentally made a reference of some kind.
< 1293766617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: that it's getting worse?
< 1293766624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like i'm the only person to notice that. whenever they started reading.
< 1293766628 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, WTF did I reference?
< 1293766629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fairly obvious that randall is running out of ideas.
< 1293766630 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is correct in this case though.  everyone knows xkcd just isn't as good as it once was
< 1293766648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because a lot of observations about "THE GOOD OL' DAYS" are false doesn't make them universally false.
< 1293766680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I hadn't already seen them, I guarantee you I could accurately sort, say, comics 550 and onwards from comics 350 and before (ignoring the ones in the middle as being part of a decline and so harder to categorise) with high accuracy
< 1293766686 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sort of. you remember the earlier good ones and forget the earlier bad ones. I'll bet that if you were to go thru them all in a random order and mark them good and bad the distribution would be roughly the same
< 1293766696 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i think he was saying it sucked before too
< 1293766711 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i disagree
< 1293766725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I doubt it:
< 1293766730 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i have done this experiment
< 1293766732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:35 variable: elliott, blasphemer
< 1293766732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:35 variable: you dare call xkcd NOT funny ?
< 1293766734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok he could be joking
< 1293766738 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that was a joke :-}
< 1293766740 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there were a lot more good ones then than there are now
< 1293766741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1293766743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to tell
< 1293766745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with some xkcd fans
< 1293766759 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'll mark jokes with :-) if a I remember for now on - ok ? :-)
< 1293766767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just mark every line with :)
< 1293766767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1293766769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: but no, xkcd really _has_ decreased in quality. i say this as someone who is almost to the point of paranoia with checking their own cognitive biases
< 1293766810 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the only way to really tell that would be to perform some kind of randomized ordering and rating of a representative sample of the comic
< 1293766868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: it is, in fact, possible to derive accurate results _without_ always performing the most anal procedure.
< 1293766877 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as an aside its been showing that being aware of cognitive biases and specifically attempting to avoid them might increase their likelyhood of affecting a person btw)
< 1293766883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :humans are capable of quite good rational thought if self-analysed to a sufficient degree.
< 1293766906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if variable is a Less Wronger.

< 1293766919 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less Wronger ?
< 1293766944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lesswrong.com/.
< 1293766964 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a name for something where I'm more attracted to someone if I know they've had a rough past?
< 1293766994 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, "Little Shop of Horrors"
< 1293766998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: being Sgeo
< 1293767002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: lol i like the timing of that
< 1293767005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:42 Sgeo: Is there a name for something where I'm more attracted to someone if I know they've had a rough past?
< 1293767006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:42 variable: Sgeo, "Little Shop of Horrors"
< 1293767027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote  Is there a name for something where I'm more attracted to someone if I know they've had a rough past?   Sgeo, "Little Shop of Horrors"
< 1293767028 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :260)  Is there a name for something where I'm more attracted to someone if I know they've had a rough past?   Sgeo, "Little Shop of Horrors"
< 1293767068 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I've not seen that blog before
< 1293767095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange.
< 1293767108 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides that Slava has his head in the sand about modules and about capability security

< 1293767119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb.
< 1293767128 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I've not seen that blog before
< 1293767135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: strange.
< 1293767136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1293767141 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there something particular about what I said that made you think of that?
< 1293767147 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so is it positive or negative ?
< 1293767150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re cognitive biases
< 1293767152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just curiosity
< 1293767159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now really brb, stop talking to me! :)
< 1293767181 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, talk
< 1293767182 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :talk
< 1293767183 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :talk
< 1293767613 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293767714 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293769098 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1293769165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GMMXle.
< 1293769171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MMXIe.
< 1293769300 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011e?
< 1293769326 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me that's not the new D&D edition
< 1293769336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GMMXIe is the new Google logo.
< 1293769365 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..? I don't see it
< 1293769472 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's New Years eve where you are, so
< 1293769503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Precisely.
< 1293769517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://www.google.co.uk/logos/2010/newyear11-hp.jpg
< 1293770543 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh is it new year already
< 1293770583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: no
< 1293770587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: nother 19 hours for that
< 1293770623 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Math#Usage <-- Cool formula for erfc
< 1293770671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1293770713 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293770723 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. http://yfrog.com/h2m6wtj why?
< 1293770738 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tattoos are daft, even if they are equations
< 1293770750 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can they stay on?
< 1293770753 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand that
< 1293770761 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would expect them to at least disperse
< 1293770857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: because of magic!
< 1293770866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: hey that equation doesn't look tex typeset
< 1293770876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I wouldn't get an equation tattooed on me (at all, but) unless it was set in AMS Euler!
< 1293771199 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1293771235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah tattoos are lame.
< 1293771265 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like.. bad to say it, because what if a person with a tattoo hears me - I don't want to upset them
< 1293771278 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... what were they thinking
< 1293771341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I think anyone who can withstand that sort of pain is hard enough to not get upset :-P
< 1293771352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://chirp.scratchr.org/dl/experimental/JsMorphic/morphic.html Smalltalk's Morphic ported to JS. This is great until Sgeo notices this message.
< 1293771377 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen in-browser Smalltalks before
< 1293771386 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I know little about Morphic
< 1293771387 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happy?
< 1293771403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not in-browser Smalltalk, it's actual real Morphic.
< 1293771407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without Smalltalk.
< 1293771425 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it really painful?
< 1293771457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Morphic is pretty cool actually ... not sure the browser part is of any use though :P
< 1293771801 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/12/30/liberal-group-criticizes-christie-with-parody-website/ Since when is the existence of a parody website news?
< 1293771861 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh those damn liberals are at it again!!
< 1293772214 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://vimeo.com/16754574
< 1293772245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't watch it i have a perfect mental image of conor mcbride
< 1293772253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't want to break it okay i pressed play omg no that's not what he sounds like
< 1293772276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: more seriously i'll watch tomorrow when it's not 5am :)
< 1293772332 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a perfect mental image of conor mcbride <-- hahaha
< 1293772336 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, Randall Munroe has a beef with audiophiles
< 1293772350 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293772369 0 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293772413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: eh?
< 1293772416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most "audiophiles" are idiots.
< 1293772423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest are not.
< 1293772466 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only joke in the latest xkcd is too angry to be a joke
< 1293772498 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who you calling an idiot!
< 1293772528 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ur just jelly of me listenin to flac vinyl rips on my grado headphones through this expensive ass setup
< 1293772546 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1293772550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: i bet you can distinguish lame -V2 --joint-stereo from flac too
< 1293772552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and FLAC from WAVs!
< 1293772557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and WAVs from the CDs themselves
< 1293772568 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could swear I've heard "jelly" used in that context before
< 1293772573 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can distinguish between different pressings of the same cd
< 1293772574 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many audiophiles have perfect pitch?
< 1293772586 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a: all of them
< 1293772595 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's whatever pitch they say it is and i dare you to argue
< 1293772595 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;)
< 1293772603 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1293772609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: u jelly?
< 1293772617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: the sane audiophiles are all at hydrogenaudio :p
< 1293772627 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcd.com/838/ <-- LOL
< 1293772641 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i liked that one
< 1293772759 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny because I RELATE TO IT !
< 1293772765 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen that meassage
< 1293772785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it emails the sysadmin
< 1293772787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. you/root
< 1293772795 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I ever tell you my sudo story?
< 1293772833 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should put a label on it: Warning: May cause death by boredom

< 1293773002 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell!
< 1293773244 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had two terminal windows open, one to the school and one for the computer I was using
< 1293773263 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to sudo apt-get something, I think Chromium, but I was doing it at the wrong terminal
< 1293773278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TODO: Figure out how to make cabal-install run "stow -v ghc" after installing/removing anything to redo the appropriate links.
< 1293773280 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Realized it eventually, and sent the person in charge of that system a message
< 1293773291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TODO: Figure out how to make cabal-install do copying and registering separately to integrate with stow.
< 1293773300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TODO: Perhaps abandon this silly idea and just install into ~/.cabal like normal people do.
< 1293773309 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: my brother plays muds a lot still
< 1293773321 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was granted an immortal character with OLC access
< 1293773324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brother plays with mud
< 1293773330 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what did it work or somethign?
< 1293773335 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he used to often get mixed up with which character he was on
< 1293773337 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it idn't
< 1293773340 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just got annoyed
< 1293773340 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he changed his immortal's prompt to be something like
< 1293773347 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: annoyed at what
< 1293773355 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That my password wasn't working
< 1293773370 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMMIMMIMMIMMIMMIMM
< 1293773370 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wanted to be root?
< 1293773383 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, so I could install Chromium!
< 1293773390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TODO: Or maybe have stow stow packages separately.
< 1293773391 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see
< 1293773400 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why did you say you have two terminals open?
< 1293773406 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that have to do wit hthis
< 1293773408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TODO: Maybe redo the bootstrap with executable stripping.
< 1293773414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: did it on the wrong terminal, got REPORTED
< 1293773439 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't figure out how to make a program not-crap with GTK
< 1293773467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TODO: wtf is root-cmd
< 1293773468 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a slightly more interesting story
< 1293773478 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: was that it?
< 1293773491 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that was the deadily boring story
< 1293773507 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but was that it?
< 1293773511 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you sent an email: End of story
< 1293773513 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1293773516 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL
< 1293773551 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So these numbskulls in class were playing with wall
< 1293773583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I play my head on wall
< 1293773586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay bouncy
< 1293773594 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I threaten to disable the next person who does so
< 1293773600 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just yes | write whoever)
< 1293773608 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I wouldn't tell them that ofc
< 1293773613 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I do so
< 1293773629 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Person closes PuTTY, opens it again, and walls again
< 1293773632 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do so again
< 1293773634 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. etc.
< 1293773663 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the next thing I do, I write something stupid on the command line to do yes | write in an infinite loop
< 1293773668 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1293773686 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next thing I know, people are complaining that the system's not working
< 1293773690 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing's happening
< 1293773691 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL
< 1293773718 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone eventually reaches to turn off my computer, despite my protests that it wouldn't work. It did.
< 1293773731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shell conncetion got dropped, duh.
< 1293773732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*connection
< 1293773760 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next class, we learn that someone was trying to work from home, couldn't, and complained
< 1293773777 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The people who were using wall got in trouble. I did not.
< 1293773807 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1293773813 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are the one that caused all the problems
< 1293773841 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and wall got disabled permanently
< 1293773859 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ehh, wall is still a problem. But yeah
< 1293773934 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'splain yes | write?
< 1293773957 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spams yes to whoever's being written to
< 1293773961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Spams y
< 1293773971 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, oops. Yeah
< 1293774024 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that disable someone?
< 1293774049 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like they ae running yes in their own terminal
< 1293774054 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PuTTY does not like being spammed
< 1293774059 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very hard to see what's gpoing on
< 1293774065 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see
< 1293774071 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, I think it actually froze PuTTY
< 1293774087 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just am unfamiliar with unix commands so i thought maybe it was doing something sly
< 1293774090 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;)
< 1293774110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sly as a faux
< 1293774115 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was doing something y
< 1293774340 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y so y
< 1293774398 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293774498 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should have sent them some BELs
< 1293774722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293775273 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293775274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293775492 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293775493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293775718 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293776184 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just ripped an arm off!
< 1293776495 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063210.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293776649 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, I ripped an arm off, what should I do?
< 1293776659 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1293776666 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293777007 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :????
< 1293777019 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a game
< 1293777031 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[off a chair]
< 1293779533 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1293781032 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293782399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1293782400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293783086 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293783638 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293783660 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.46.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293783855 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230229184.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293784550 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293785440 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293786436 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048109.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293787655 0 :sftp_!~sftp@79.174.49.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293787656 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293788081 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293788405 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-9-162.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1293791386 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc1-sgyl29-2-0-cust788.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293792251 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293792302 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293792983 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293793099 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293793114 0 :sftp_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1293795157 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-9-162.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293795223 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293795278 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293795420 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-9-162.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293795656 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293795672 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293795979 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things that annoy me with eog: it blurs the image if you zoom in so that a pixel in the image covers more than one pixel on screen.
< 1293796050 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293797636 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That annoys me too. Maybe there's some mysterious gconf flag that makes it do nearest-neighbor instead of filtering.
< 1293798459 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ilua
< 1293799185 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok Ubuntu is like a devil it run in any computer... it works his way in to your computer and a demon takes control of your computer...what do I mean?
< 1293799185 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you seen does cakes with cream felling that you like? Linux is the cream Inside thats what linux is and yes it should work in your in your computer..
< 1293799191 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love forums
< 1293799320 0 :PEDRO-8B4ACF159!~PEDRO-8B4@host253-228-dynamic.26-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293799347 0 :PEDRO-8B4ACF159!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293800081 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293801246 0 :Wamanuz5!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293802458 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d93294dd.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293802659 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293803865 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293803986 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293804218 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1293804581 0 :BMG!~behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293804788 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1293804906 0 :BMG!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1293804906 0 :BMG!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293804911 0 :BMG!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BeholdMyGlory
< 1293806339 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yieh
< 1293806366 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like new years eve
< 1293806897 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1293806989 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293807029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION realizes the paradox of variable learning haskell

< 1293807249 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293807299 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan what?
< 1293807574 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is purely functional, so everything is constant, not variable
< 1293807583 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sweeps some IORefs under the rug

< 1293807790 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also some STRefs, MVars and TVars
< 1293807860 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Newspeak's "module" system has spoiled me. Racket's makes me want to barf.
< 1293807900 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm convinced that the Factor people have their head in the sand, unless they're planning to pull a Racket and have a centralized distribution source
< 1293808025 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION now imagines a language named Ostrich

< 1293808113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally it would be based on ignoring all errors as long as possible
< 1293808176 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and having a number of flawed design choices
< 1293808228 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293808248 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293808249 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hrm....
< 1293808254 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that called Java ?
< 1293808287 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not aware of whether java ignores errors
< 1293808306 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never got much deeper than hello, world in it
< 1293808339 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess the second part applies to everyone's favorite hate languages
< 1293808347 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(java, php, c++ ?)
< 1293808369 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like C++
< 1293808378 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION puts on flamesuit 

< 1293808410 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but i hear it's a mess unless you work in a carefully restricted subset (and different people choose different subsets)
< 1293808426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't know php or c++ either

< 1293808478 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i recall java's checked exceptions are supposedly so annoying that people _do_ tend to ignore them, so maybe it fits
< 1293808539 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION disliks the exception paradigm 

< 1293808572 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its pretty much a "goto" but in an if statement :-)
< 1293808573 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, a few (out of many) reasons that C++ is deeply flawed: templates sucking, multiple inheritance, operator++ overloading for ++x vs. x++, STL being crazy (especially the io stuff)
< 1293808586 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a lot more reasons why C++ sucks
< 1293808591 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is very complicated
< 1293808599 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally haskell has _several_ variants of exception mechanisms, some purely functional and some not
< 1293808599 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, yes, and badly designed
< 1293808624 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, templates are one of my fav. parts of C++, nothing is wrong with MI if you know what your doing; STL is crazy and I wish there were certain; blah blah blah
< 1293808635 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to start this convo
< 1293808637 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the near-trivial Maybe monad up to IO exceptions
< 1293808708 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paging coppro, paging coppro
< 1293808733 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a MonadError type class, i'm not quite sure if all the examples belong to it
< 1293808743 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, did you know that while C++ is not TC (nor is C) thanks to sizeof(void*) having to be finite, C++ templates are actually TC at compile time.
< 1293808756 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, yes
< 1293808761 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually - I did :-}
< 1293808790 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, but its an interesting piece of knowledge (trivia?)
< 1293808816 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that templates usually come with a maximum recursion depth to force them to terminate
< 1293808847 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, and that parsing C++ requires you to do syntax and semantic analysis in one pass since you will get ambiguous parse tree otherwise.
< 1293808852 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a minimum of 16 -> but the standard allows infinite
< 1293808853 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, quite.
< 1293808861 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, yeah - its not context free
< 1293808877 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's horrible
< 1293808893 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc's type system is also TC at compile time if you set the right extension flags
< 1293808903 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong** :P
< 1293808916 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think something like A B(C); parses differently depending on what a, b and c are.
< 1293808933 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, exactly
< 1293808934 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that was the case already in C
< 1293808949 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes quite. But also C++ adds a few more variants to that
< 1293808979 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, for example, myclass foo(42); Now that won't be a possible way to parse it in C since it has no constructors
< 1293809010 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1293809095 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read that they're going to introduce a new type kind in haskell to solve the newtype deriving inconsistencies
< 1293809113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/haskell/ghc/
< 1293809116 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype deriving inconsistencies?
< 1293809172 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ghc's newtype deriving extension is inconsistent with both the GADT and the type family extensions
< 1293809194 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can combine them in such a way as to convert any type to any other
< 1293809210 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, convert in what sort of way?
< 1293809283 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in such a way as to break type safety
< 1293809297 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, right, but what will happen if you do it
< 1293809303 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, crash?
< 1293809311 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite likely
< 1293809328 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafeCoerce vorpal :: Int
< 1293809335 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you convert an Int to a function type you would be able to jump to an arbitrary address
< 1293809361 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you could define unsafeCoerce :: a -> b with this, i think
< 1293809373 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1293809391 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course unsafeCoerce _is_ already defined somewhere, but that's what the unsafe* prefixes are for)
< 1293809396 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, could you use this to get the bit pattern of a floating point value for example?
< 1293809412 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i would think so...
< 1293809419 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, is there any other way to do that?
< 1293809442 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, when I tell people in C++ channels that I'm using reinterpret_cast, and they yell at me, it's because they don't realize that's what I want to do
< 1293809443 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the RealFloat class has methods to get most of the information
< 1293809444 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I suddenly got an urge to do that famous inverse square function in haskell!
< 1293809476 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, squareroot
< 1293809493 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean integer square root?
< 1293809498 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no
< 1293809500 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_inverse_square_root
< 1293809503 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the newtons method one
< 1293809507 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, the one famous from quake
< 1293809527 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with magic number and so on
< 1293809539 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1293809641 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, surely you heard about it before
< 1293809698 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it vaguely rings a bell
< 1293809713 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially that strange constant thing
< 1293809778 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee how does this inconsistency work again
< 1293809842 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Trap a b where trap :: f a -> f b
< 1293809873 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Trap Int Int where trap = id
< 1293809964 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inconsistency?
< 1293809978 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype deriving
< 1293809985 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION needs to google it

< 1293810085 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/1496
< 1293810155 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. Does anyone know if there is any good algorithms for uninlining? For a brainfuck compiler this could be an optimisation, trying to factor out code into functions.
< 1293810872 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Related to Common Subexpression Elimination?
< 1293811172 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293811325 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293811492 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1293811643 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The CEO of Active Worlds just rickrolled me
< 1293812419 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293812563 0 :Wamanuz5!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1293812750 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BeholdMyGlory
< 1293812805 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293813115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:12:49  I like C++
< 1293813117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: not for long
< 1293813206 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuck
< 1293813207 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++
< 1293813417 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293813471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293813525 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293813902 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293814413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lbwfg7kwca1qe2mq3o1_1280.png?AWSAccessKeyId=0RYTHV9YYQ4W5Q3HQMG2&Expires=1293900774&Signature=tKmD48bMIwNvzV%2B55IbiF2gKWE0%3D /troll
< 1293814999 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293815160 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1293815205 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-33-161.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293815210 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1293815244 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-33-161.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293815415 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181137060.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293816400 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh
< 1293816414 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm told that AW telegrams are secure
< 1293816422 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I instantly disbelieve it
< 1293816435 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I open Wireshark, send a test message, stop collecting
< 1293816455 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And can't find the message in Wireshark. Doesn't prove that it's secure, but it's not plaintext like I was expecting
< 1293816634 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One can have all sorts of insecure encryption schemes... And those schemes look just as good in ciphertext as really secure ones.
< 1293816715 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed
< 1293816897 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, it's probably safer than email
< 1293816931 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calculating the total entropy of message blocks doesn't tell much either. Both good and bad encryption can have high entropy.
< 1293816954 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, tbh, I can't even isolate the packets, I don't know how and not going to try
< 1293817192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q: What is the future of open source? A: Nagware! http://i.imgur.com/GJhbS.png
< 1293817197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seen when starting Transmission for the second time.
< 1293817198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lame.
< 1293817211 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: if you can't even find the packets, does that mean they use telepathy?
< 1293817383 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293818169 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I mean I have so much other stuff running, and AW sends so many other packets, etc, I wouldn't know where to start
< 1293818187 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to think of it, standing there, I should only have been receiving packets other than the telegram, not sending
< 1293818224 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION carefully watches a blind Braid Let's Play

< 1293818243 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solved worlds 2-4
< 1293818444 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sees World 4's hunt in a thumbnail :D

< 1293818624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: TIME FOR HORROR
< 1293818865 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hora horroris
< 1293819062 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION WTFs at the player... he accidentally managed to do something I completely failed at multiple times

< 1293820350 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what horror?
< 1293820355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: KITTEN
< 1293820384 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, O GOD KITTENS AAAAAAA
< 1293820402 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sorry, my father was eaten by rampaging kittens.)
< 1293820416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: And INIT SYSTEMS
< 1293820438 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, he wasn't eaten by any of them.
< 1293820465 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INIT SYSTEMS EAT PARENTS!
< 1293820477 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do, even though they may not have eaten yours
< 1293820492 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, THAT IS INSENSITIVE
< 1293820520 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pfft
< 1293820553 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words: never get children of your own
< 1293820581 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least: never expose yourself to init systems after getting children
< 1293820600 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, tricky in this modern world of computers
< 1293820637 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait.... AHA! So *that* is how they plan to take over.
< 1293820646 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :matrix, terminator. they were all wrong
< 1293820665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: just use windows
< 1293820665 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead, they are going to scare humans into not having children
< 1293820668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no init system!
< 1293820670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of.
< 1293820678 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it has an init system of some sort. Not a /sbin/init sure
< 1293820685 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if windows has no init system, how does it start?
< 1293820709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: badl
< 1293820710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y
< 1293820711 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but there is something that checks and mounts filesystem, starts services and so on
< 1293820735 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows' "Services" seem to be kind of the corresponding thing, winlogon does some more stuff
< 1293820780 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think basic system startup like mounting filesystems is done before any of that
< 1293820982 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293821326 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181137060.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293821479 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293821521 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm considering getting a new laptop. Any suggestions?
< 1293821527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: MacBook Air :-P
< 1293821533 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, OTHER THAN THAT
< 1293821548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: BUY A SONY LOLZ
< 1293821575 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not biased or anything, it's just that the rest of my family are firm members of the Holy Church of Mac and I don't want to let them think I've come back into the fold.
< 1293821588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: That's why you put Linux on it. Duh.
< 1293821600 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they wouldn't care!
< 1293821610 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, specs are a little low for my liking.
< 1293821618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Preferably use a tiling window manager, semitransparent terminals with tiny, unantialised green text over inane anime wallpaper, and LOTS AND LOTS OF NCURSES PROGRAMS.
< 1293821628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Which specs?
< 1293821641 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MacBook Air.
< 1293821646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Yes, but which specs in particular.
< 1293821650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GPU is probably the second-best integrated graphics out there, which isn't bad if you ask me.
< 1293821657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually recommend the MBA since it's hideously expensive :P
< 1293821662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm curious which specs you think are low.
< 1293821675 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who are you poking fun at with the tiling window manager thing, BtW,
< 1293821680 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*?
< 1293821698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Umm, the kind of people who do that.
< 1293821702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly Arch users nowadays.
< 1293821706 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1293821738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kind of people who put a bunch of useless system performance statistics on their desktop because it looks MINIMALIST because it, totally has a transparent background, man.
< 1293821740 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1293821748 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293821770 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh, that.
< 1293821807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should put Ubuntu on this soon.
< 1293821898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: So what specs are low?
< 1293821900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Legitimately curious :p
< 1293821922 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, erm. Clock speed, although I know it doesn't matter very much. RAM.
< 1293821936 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using my current, dirt-cheap laptop as a baseline.
< 1293821936 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, while *nix permissions are rather limited, they have the advantage of being simple.
< 1293821961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: 2.1 GHz of a recent Core 2 Duo ain't bad at all. As you said, clock speed is irrelevant -- I really wish they had never advertised it at all, ever. BTW, my previous laptop was 1.3 GHz and you wouldn't notice.
< 1293821962 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is good when it comes to security IMO.
< 1293821962 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not dirt cheap, but a third of the price of an Air.
< 1293821971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: RAM -- I have 4 gigs.
< 1293821973 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(harder to get it wrong)
< 1293821981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't think you'll find 8 gigs on a consumer laptop with more than 2 minutes of battery life any time soon.
< 1293821983 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I must have been looking at different specs...
< 1293821994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: You were probably looking at the 11 inch version, or looking at the uncustomised 13 inch version.
< 1293822000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: You have to up the specs before ordering :-P
< 1293822006 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, quite probably. Price?
< 1293822011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Um, £expensive.
< 1293822025 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't HAVE £expensive!
< 1293822033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: I upped the RAM to 4 gigs and the SSD to 256 gigs and it came out to somewhere just under one-and-a-half kilo-monetary-units.
< 1293822046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr WHOO THIS THING IS GONNA LAST ME A DECADE
< 1293822077 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<2020 elliott> MY LAPTOP IS ON FIRE
< 1293822086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIRE IS THE APPLE WAY
< 1293822103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: But, yes, the unupgraded Air is kind of silly what with its 2 gigs.
< 1293822118 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, INDEED
< 1293822145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: If you're okay with a 128 gig SSD, you can get a 4 gig air for £1,179 apparently.
< 1293822153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, that's with the lower clock speed.
< 1293822160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: I also upped the clock from 1.86 to 2.1 GHz, btw.
< 1293822166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my defence, it has more cache.
< 1293822186 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't care! I have an aversion to spending monies!
< 1293822193 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Scrooger
< 1293822205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Scrooger: Buy a ThinkPad! It costs slightly less than £expensive!
< 1293822213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes indeed: £expensive-minus-epsilon!
< 1293822222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But hey, it'll run Debian until Lenovo finally fuck it up for good.
< 1293822230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In, say, five minutes.)
< 1293822288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Writing to argc -- am I a bad person?
< 1293822653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION WRITES A SHELL

< 1293822660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I need to know why you do it first
< 1293822671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: to avoid allocating another integer
< 1293822674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the stack
< 1293822675 0 :Phantom_Scrooger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, his own nefarious purposes, clearly.
< 1293822683 0 :Phantom_Scrooger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, don't do that!
< 1293822688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Scrooger: WHY NOT MWAHAHAHA
< 1293822693 0 :Phantom_Scrooger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use argv[0]!
< 1293822698 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, shouldn't the compiler be able to optimise that by a simple variable liveness analysis?
< 1293822705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Scrooger: that's not int-sized :P
< 1293822718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's gcc, i don't trust it to optimise its way out of a paper bag
< 1293822724 0 :Phantom_Scrooger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, OK, use the high dword!
< 1293822747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need names for hell that aren't hades or nether
< 1293822763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe naraka
< 1293822772 0 :Phantom_Scrooger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(LP64 IS THE ONLY TRUE 64-BIT SIZE SCHEME)
< 1293822777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shell -> sFOO
< 1293822784 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inferno
< 1293822795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Scrooger: Psht, I use SLP64. Ints are of course 16-bit.
< 1293822807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chars are 32-bits.
< 1293822815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :long longs are 9 bits.
< 1293822827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Sinferno? :D
< 1293822840 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh?
< 1293822847 0 :Phantom_Scrooger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Malebolge!
< 1293822849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm writing a shell
< 1293822853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: s hell
< 1293822855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s inferno
< 1293822856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sinferno
< 1293822857 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Scrooger: Psht, I use SLP64. Ints are of course 16-bit. <-- as awesome as that would be, I'm afraid C does not allow it
< 1293822860 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293822864 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1293822866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: C doesn't allow plenty of things that people do :P
< 1293822875 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: styx?
< 1293822880 0 :Phantom_Scrooger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalebolge
< 1293822884 0 :Phantom_Scrooger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tartarus!
< 1293822885 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293822887 0 :Phantom_Scrooger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Startarus!
< 1293822888 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not precisely hell, but close enough
< 1293822893 0 :Phantom_Scrooger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selysium!
< 1293822893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://www.zymondo.com/georgekeys/00Pics/StyxBabe.jpg
< 1293822898 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well I never heard about anyone breaking the rules it put down on char/short/int/long sizes :P
< 1293822910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I might go with hades actually
< 1293822911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shades
< 1293822923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, now even Greeks can use it!
< 1293822932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just pretend it refers to all the different shades of horror this shell gives.
< 1293822948 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: retrieved from swap
< 1293822965 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m?
< 1293822995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: EXAMPLE SHADES CODE
< 1293823004 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you were paging me
< 1293823005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo \ \   x
< 1293823007 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can't resist a pun
< 1293823008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the same as the sh code
< 1293823011 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that looks like perl 6
< 1293823013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo '  ' '' x
< 1293823021 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh
< 1293823022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE RULES ARE SIMPLE
< 1293823026 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* * *** ** * ** * * * * * ** ** **** ** ** ** ** *
< 1293823030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\ followed by anything adds that char to the current command
< 1293823039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything but a space adds that char to the current command
< 1293823043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :space moves on to the next command
< 1293823045 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is this a shell in the same sense as /bin/sh?
< 1293823048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1293823049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excep
< 1293823050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t
< 1293823054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to be used as /bin/sh
< 1293823059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's meant for writing simple init scrpts
< 1293823060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*scripts
< 1293823066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid the slowness of /bin/sh :D
< 1293823075 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ahahahaha
< 1293823075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fefe did it, so I can!
< 1293823079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: FEFE DID IT SO I CAN
< 1293823082 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fefe?
< 1293823088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of dietlibc fame.
< 1293823096 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also will it integrate into init then, or how will you make it fast
< 1293823105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by doing less obvs
< 1293823112 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obvs?
< 1293823115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously
< 1293823117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fefe's is called serdo
< 1293823147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :serdo has a bit of bloat though, it can do "cd" and "export"
< 1293823159 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, cd is probably a good idea
< 1293823166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes :P
< 1293823166 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also I doubt that adds much if it isn't used
< 1293823172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll make every assignment an export
< 1293823173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo=x
< 1293823201 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in fact you need cd if you plan to handle any sort of daemon that wants to be chrooted
< 1293823216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well yes. note that init scripts aren't services
< 1293823231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact most services will probably have their "run" linked to an actual command plus a "params" file with parameters to it
< 1293823233 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh so this is not for starting daemons?
< 1293823238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(idea to avoid pointless shell invocations stolen from fefe's minit)
< 1293823239 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but rather, for the stuff before that?
< 1293823245 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the fsck and so ojn
< 1293823246 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on*
< 1293823247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, /etc/rc/start.
< 1293823255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: of course it might still be useful for starting daemons in a lot of cases.
< 1293823551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can someone please move the ctrl key on my keyboard to somewhere I can press without getting RSI.
< 1293823555 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/12/31/1254208/One-Tip-Enough-To-Put-Name-On-Terrorist-Watch-List?from=rss
< 1293823568 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am tempted to go tip them off about the director of DHS being a potential terrorist or something
< 1293823579 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe a republican senator nobody's heard of
< 1293823696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wow.
< 1293823705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs is so much nicer when you bind ctrl to the key right next to your spacebar.
< 1293823709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. alt on pc, cmd on mac.
< 1293823761 0 :Phantom_Scrooger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I just bind it to caps lock.
< 1293823875 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1293823882 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim doesn't bind meta by default, does it?
< 1293823901 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293823915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293823983 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293823987 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim doesn't bind meta by default, does it?
< 1293823998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well meta = esc
< 1293823999 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293824007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as vim is concerned
< 1293824015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Scrooger: caps lock as ctrl is not really ergonomic
< 1293824034 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: uh what
< 1293824035 0 :Phantom_Scrooger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's all right.
< 1293824045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: uh yes.
< 1293824048 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: uh no
< 1293824056 0 :Phantom_Scrooger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, far less hand movement needed.
< 1293824073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: whoops look at that i denied accepted UNIX-WIZZARD wisdom i must be wrong
< 1293824076 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293824079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to say uh no condescendingly
< 1293824082 0 :Phantom_Scrooger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, not if you have your thumb over it,
< 1293824085 0 :Phantom_Scrooger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*.
< 1293824093 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the meta key is absolutely different from the escape key in vim
< 1293824094 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293824098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh /that/
< 1293824104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: not as far as terminals are concerned, lol.
< 1293824107 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have just verified this experimentally
< 1293824108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Alt+x sends ^[x
< 1293824111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESC sends ^[
< 1293824118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes, vim waits a short amount of time before accepting esc
< 1293824125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try pressing esc and then another key really quickly
< 1293824128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is also how it handles arrow keys.
< 1293824163 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293824780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psht, serdo is more ADVANCED than my script
< 1293824791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has quotes and all
< 1293824830 0 :Phantom_Scrooger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :serdo?
< 1293824994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Scrooger: this thing
< 1293825003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is ARG_MAX based on the sum of the arg lengths, or is it just the number of max args?
< 1293825020 0 :Phantom_Scrooger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter, I should think.
< 1293825037 0 :Phantom_Scrooger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, nowhere does it say that argv must be contiguous.
< 1293825134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Scrooger: I think it's the former, actually.
< 1293825141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since people refer to it as kilobytes.
< 1293825150 0 :Phantom_Scrooger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, size of argv?
< 1293825158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Scrooger: Size of all the arguments together.
< 1293825159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think.
< 1293825163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows.
< 1293825199 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293825296 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293825578 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Maximum length of argument to the exec functions including environment data."
< 1293825591 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Is how POSIX defines it.)
< 1293825708 0 :Phantom_Scrooger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So size of argv.
< 1293825726 0 :Phantom_Scrooger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, argv+envp
< 1293825777 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, the value is typically ASCII + 64
< 1293825785 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 0 = ^@
< 1293825790 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the rest go from there
< 1293825840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: that's for ctrl.
< 1293825843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're talking about meta
< 1293825846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, were.
< 1293825858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's kind of weird, since argv is really just an array of random pointers.
< 1293825865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it might just mean that
< 1293825877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy to test by measuring i guess but i'm laz
< 1293825878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y
< 1293825998 0 :Phantom_Scrooger!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1293826238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: p.s. static linking speeds bootup
< 1293826290 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG, bootup speed? HOORAY
< 1293826294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: YES I KNOW
< 1293826299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Small victories, my friend.
< 1293826301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Small victories!
< 1293826308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (I'm really just trollin' Vorpal)
< 1293826586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1293826590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't this output appearing after a fork()
< 1293826684 0 :Phantom_Scrooger!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293826819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Scrooger: fix my porgram
< 1293826874 0 :Phantom_Scrooger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, humbug!
< 1293826963 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My biggest concern with Newspeak is that it might be a headache to write small programs
< 1293826970 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick hacks, etc
< 1293826984 0 :Phantom_Scrooger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, my biggest concern with Newspeak is that you haven't shut up about it.
< 1293827360 0 :shutup!~shutup@91.105.67.154 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293827365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So what's your current language obsession again?
< 1293827432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Mm?
< 1293827465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293827483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ...
< 1293827570 0 :shutup!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293827577 0 :shutup!~shutup@91.105.67.154 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293827580 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, some things about Racket are getting on my nerves. Well, one thing about Racket. But the thing is, it's something that's been praised
< 1293827581 0 :shutup!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Shut up about Racket!
< 1293827599 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Newspeak
< 1293827599 0 :shutup!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Shut up about Newspeak!
< 1293827603 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asdf
< 1293827608 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asdf
< 1293827613 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk
< 1293827613 0 :shutup!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Shut up about Smalltalk!
< 1293827615 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor
< 1293827616 0 :shutup!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Shut up about Factor!
< 1293827620 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agda
< 1293827632 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COBOL
< 1293827635 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!
< 1293827644 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python
< 1293827645 0 :Phantom_Scrooger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you seriously liked Agda?
< 1293827650 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Scrooger, no
< 1293827665 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just testing elliott's bot
< 1293827713 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme
< 1293827714 0 :Phantom_Scrooger!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo_exceptnotre
< 1293827717 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LSL
< 1293827721 0 :Sgeo_exceptnotre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk
< 1293827722 0 :shutup!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Shut up about Smalltalk!
< 1293827724 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Active Worlds
< 1293827729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!
< 1293827733 0 :Sgeo_exceptnotre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor.
< 1293827733 0 :shutup!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Shut up about Factor!
< 1293827748 0 :shutup!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293827752 0 :shutup!~shutup@91.105.67.154 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293827759 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Active Worlds
< 1293827760 0 :shutup!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Shut up about Active Worlds!
< 1293827760 0 :Sgeo_exceptnotre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ActiveWorlds
< 1293827773 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF-RLE
< 1293827785 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you really had to restart the bot to add a term?
< 1293827797 0 :shutup!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293827801 0 :shutup!~shutup@91.105.67.154 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293827801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Hmm. Tell me,
< 1293827809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What language feature would I need to be able to add a term without restarting the bot?
< 1293827814 0 :Sgeo_exceptnotre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Active Worlds
< 1293827834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's that one you were complaining about Racket not having, yeah? What's its name again?
< 1293827841 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I know what you think my answer would be, but I'm aware that it's a wrong answer
< 1293827842 0 :Sgeo_exceptnotre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hotswapping?
< 1293827842 0 :shutup!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Shut up about AW!
< 1293827846 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1293827851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No, please tell me, I want to know.
< 1293827868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note to self: Matching "aw" in the message: not a good idea?)
< 1293827873 0 :Sgeo_exceptnotre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1293827879 0 :Sgeo_exceptnotre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awwww!
< 1293827894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Please, tell me!
< 1293827895 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll say it if you clarify that it's not my answer to your question.
< 1293827896 0 :Sgeo_exceptnotre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A hypothetical kitten!
< 1293827900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Certainly.
< 1293827908 0 :Sgeo_exceptnotre!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hooer
< 1293827911 0 :Phantom_Hooer!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1293827913 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hotswapping
< 1293827920 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...the bot's dead
< 1293827928 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the only reasonable conclusion
< 1293827932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whut.
< 1293827937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put hotswapping in.
< 1293827942 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hotswapping
< 1293827945 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hotswap
< 1293827954 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk
< 1293827955 0 :shutup!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Shut up about Smalltalk!
< 1293827968 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smalltaLk
< 1293827970 0 :shutup!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Shut up about Smalltalk!
< 1293828231 0 :shutup!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1293828303 0 :shutup!~shutup@91.105.67.154 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293828323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There.
< 1293828333 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hotswap
< 1293828336 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hotswaping
< 1293828338 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hotswapping
< 1293828338 0 :shutup!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Shut up about hotswapping!
< 1293828365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :swathopping
< 1293828443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So what's that old game you like?
< 1293828530 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lazy Planets
< 1293828531 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mutation
< 1293828534 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1293828539 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evolution
< 1293828544 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cybertown
< 1293828547 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Creatures
< 1293828551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No, the old game you like.
< 1293828551 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Docking Station
< 1293828561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one that's like Minecraft without any of the fun bits.
< 1293828573 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said that already
< 1293828573 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRB
< 1293828589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm trying to make you test it, dammit.
< 1293828600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only listens to you -- the saddest life a bot can have.
< 1293828640 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Active Worlds
< 1293828641 0 :shutup!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Shut up about Active Worlds!
< 1293828648 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AW
< 1293828649 0 :shutup!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Shut up about Active Worlds!
< 1293828702 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Falcon
< 1293828705 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Falcorn
< 1293828707 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Falctorn
< 1293828981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any suggestions to add to shutup's table are welcome.
< 1293829065 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX would qualify if he ever talked about it without it being tongue-in-cheek.
< 1293829107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh, believe me, he used to.
< 1293829122 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know that, but he's stopped.
< 1293829380 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX
< 1293829383 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh
< 1293829404 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I not that long ago was talking about PSOX2
< 1293829435 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, add it. Add it now.
< 1293829459 0 :shutup!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293829462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1293829467 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was then suggested to me that I just make a way for various esolang programs to talk to eachother
< 1293829475 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of what I had planned
< 1293829491 0 :shutup!~shutup@91.105.67.154 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293829495 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX
< 1293829496 0 :shutup!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Shut up about PSOX! I don't care if you're joking! Just shut up!
< 1293829517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It was suggested by cpressey, who already tried implementing it.
< 1293829530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was what catbus was.
< 1293829540 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was?
< 1293829637 0 :shutup!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1293829642 0 :shutup!~shutup@91.105.67.154 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293829647 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, god, what /was/ that game you only played due to a burgeoning sense of nostalgia?
< 1293829663 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cybertown. I said that already
< 1293829672 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no, no, the other one.
< 1293829679 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actsomething.
< 1293829686 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Passive Dimensions
< 1293829698 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flatland?
< 1293829705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actsomething = Flatland!
< 1293829710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A, c, t, tland. Flatland.
< 1293829714 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you can't win.
< 1293829721 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have POWERS
< 1293829727 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o oerjan
< 1293829732 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh-oh.
< 1293829733 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INDEED
< 1293829736 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ducks

< 1293829737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Weak-head-normal-form domains.
< 1293829746 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what?
< 1293829753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Active Worlds.
< 1293829757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> Lazy Domains.
< 1293829761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> Weak-head-normal-form Domains.
< 1293829767 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION jumps back up.

< 1293829799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What was that name? Starts with an Active, ends with a Worlds.
< 1293829812 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Active Worlds
< 1293829813 0 :shutup!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Shut up about Active Worlds! One day the servers will go down, and NOBODY WILL CARE! The 90s are over! Move on!!
< 1293829819 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+b *!*shutup@91.105.67.*
< 1293829821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, man, it duplicates the apostrophe.
< 1293829822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a mistak.
< 1293829824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mistake.
< 1293829825 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHOOPS
< 1293829830 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ducks

< 1293829832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was going to move it to a server anyway. :)
< 1293829874 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of AW's best moments were in this past decade
< 1293829946 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, lemme guess, all of them before '05.
< 1293829973 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't around that much after '05, so I don't know
< 1293830083 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-o oerjan
< 1293830099 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :shutup
< 1293830112 0 :shutup!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1293830126 0 :shutup!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo `echo ^echo echo
< 1293830141 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo ^echo echo
< 1293830145 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo echo
< 1293830156 0 :shutup!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1293830165 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmm
< 1293830194 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not smart enough to do what I want to do. Probably a good thing, as I'd get kicked anyway probably.
< 1293830205 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you want to do?
< 1293830233 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks to:
< 1293830234 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ignore
< 1293830234 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE|Sparkbot|optbot)!
< 1293830239 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may wish to start with ^echo.
< 1293830246 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the other bots are less picky.
< 1293830258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is sparkbot
< 1293830270 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know.
< 1293830278 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo !echo `echo echo
< 1293830278 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo `echo echo !echo `echo echo
< 1293830278 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo echo !echo `echo echo
< 1293830279 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo !echo `echo echo
< 1293830292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot echoes twice.
< 1293830293 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i mean, ok, i won't find about about call sites which need changing of the instruction struct?
< 1293830295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean ^cat.
< 1293830296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^cat x
< 1293830296 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x
< 1293830298 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, quine-like to get two bots in an infinite loop
< 1293830304 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^cat !echo `echo echo
< 1293830304 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo `echo echo
< 1293830305 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo echo
< 1293830306 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo
< 1293830306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. cat should output "meow" after :)
< 1293830306 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's also a truth.
< 1293830309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AMIRITE
< 1293830318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: dude, we've done those billions of times.
< 1293830319 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, we have repeatedly tried that, and as such it has been prevented.
< 1293830326 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1293830328 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.>
< 1293830369 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo !echo EgoBot? fungot? Don't you love me any more?
< 1293830370 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo EgoBot? fungot? Don't you love me any more?
< 1293830370 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: since lisp is so fractured into at least two more, and primarily) useful for development within it. how many do you have a lot of the design
< 1293830401 0 :shutup!~shutup@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293830402 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that neither fungot nor EgoBot like HackEgo.
< 1293830403 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: sigill is for making egobot use special characters, and work is ongoing on lispworks)) will make it easy to learn because it does
< 1293830408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's less yelly now. :p
< 1293830425 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot hates all other bots, though, since he was raised by humans.
< 1293830425 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it would be
< 1293830432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Indeed.
< 1293830433 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ruby for example has a coding standard. i ignored it for a couple of esoteric programs have turned up here: fnord/ cgi-bin/ fnord)
< 1293830443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignoring coding standards is a good idea for esoteric programs.
< 1293830448 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (^ul )(+ul )(~:SaS~aSaS(:^)S):^
< 1293830448 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ul (+ul )(^ul )(~:SaS~aSaS(:^)S):^
< 1293830454 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That used to work.
< 1293830463 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already forget who did +ul, though.
< 1293830463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the reason nobody likes hackego is because it only talks in code
< 1293830469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly EgoBot does too but shut up
< 1293830622 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: thutubot
< 1293830629 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh, of course.
< 1293830702 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (^ul )(!underload )(~:SaS~aSaS(:^)S):^
< 1293830703 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!underload (!underload )(^ul )(~:SaS~aSaS(:^)S):^
< 1293830703 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (^ul )(!underload )(~:SaS~aSaS(:^)S):^
< 1293830708 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It only talks in code" guh?
< 1293830715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, without the ignores that would go on and on.
< 1293830715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: SHUT UP
< 1293830718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot talks in happy.
< 1293830719 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i do that sometimes, switching between cl and scheme)."
< 1293830956 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1293830956 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
< 1293830963 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style jargon
< 1293830963 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: jargon (UNIX-HATERS mailing list archive)
< 1293830969 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo I'M BETTAR
< 1293830970 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'M BETTAR
< 1293830973 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, what do you hate?
< 1293830973 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: if ( ++sincereal 25) goto oops; for
< 1293830980 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo, NO YOU AREN'T
< 1293831016 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo Phantom_Hoover: YES I AM
< 1293831017 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: YES I AM
< 1293831026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Selected style: jargon (UNIX-HATERS mailing list archive)
< 1293831027 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you know what kind of like that) which is actually a very likely that confusion would result in the right solution is to traditional ( i.e., " owner-wimpy",
< 1293831037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how that didn't get renamed when I made fizzie get rid of the Jargon File :-P
< 1293831046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although I do believe I just asked for the pre-esr one.)
< 1293831129 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1293831146 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't imagine an unix hater
< 1293831159 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should be unsurprised that bacon chocolate isn't sweet at all.
< 1293831173 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bacon chocolate?
< 1293831177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You bought it? <3
< 1293831179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I got it for Christmas.
< 1293831180 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urgh, only in USA :F
< 1293831182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Which brand which brand
< 1293831184 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Got it for Jesusmas.
< 1293831187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: No. Not only in USA.
< 1293831190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Which brand is it that one starting with V
< 1293831191 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blargh
< 1293831195 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Vosges
< 1293831196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Trust me, it is gorgeous.
< 1293831197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: YES
< 1293831201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It is amazing isn't it <333
< 1293831204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I legitimately love it
< 1293831214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The saltiness is SO GOOD with the chocolate taste
< 1293831217 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i ate milk chocolate with mandels and rock salt
< 1293831221 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in norway
< 1293831223 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ... not as good w.r.t. chocolate as baconnaise is w.r.t mayonnaise :P
< 1293831229 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was suprisingly delicious
< 1293831242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Dude. Excuse me. It is amazing.
< 1293831248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You have been letting it MELT right
< 1293831251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And waiting for the aftertaste
< 1293831269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: P.S. small bites (Americans don't know how to eat real chocolate)
< 1293831272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Because they have never seen it
< 1293831273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1293831275 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pretty much shove foot directly down my throat with no chewing.
< 1293831284 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....
< 1293831288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD
< 1293831289 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That worked surprisingly well for a typo.
< 1293831300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: More seriously though, ... no, don't do that with good chocolate.
< 1293831311 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was called a JOKE.
< 1293831317 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even in the non-foot sense :P
< 1293831318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Dude, you're American.
< 1293831324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Of course it wasn't a joke.
< 1293831407 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering http://www.scottevest.com/v3_store/Expedition-Jacket.shtml
< 1293831430 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1293831479 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My current jacket has 19 pockets and removable sleeves, but it keeps falling apart ... it's also less expensive.
< 1293831497 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i drink beer after beer and eat tuna salad
< 1293831536 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then cheap champagne
< 1293831553 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then i will code
< 1293831598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 37 mothafuckin' pockets.
< 1293831603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You ... do not need that many pockets.
< 1293831630 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who needs jackets
< 1293831641 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're going to have more than one pocket, you should have a potentially infinite amount!
< 1293831645 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's not considered socially acceptable for a man to carry a purse!
< 1293831666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Clearly you must become a woman!
< 1293831672 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use two pockets: one for wallet and keys and one for cellphone
< 1293831678 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use all of my 19 except for one inner pocket and the back pocket. The back pocket because it's useless, the inner pocket because I use the other one 'til it falls apart, then switch.
< 1293831683 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then maybe one for cigarretes and lighter
< 1293831729 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i have this cursed blueberry bold
< 1293831749 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it sucks compared to my old ericsson w200i
< 1293831755 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's bigger
< 1293831769 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: 37 mothafuckin' pockets. <-- awesome
< 1293831772 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's harder to send a text message
< 1293831822 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pocket uses: (USB thumbdrives, camera batteries, other electrogadgets), (change), (student ID and/or bus pass), (pencils/pens), (tripod), (camera), (pocket reserved for unexpected carryables), (recycling when no bin is about), (papers to keep), (larger electrogadgets), (wallet), (passport)
< 1293831842 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly that's only 12/19, I'd have to look at the jacket to remember what I use the others for :P
< 1293831848 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most are used though.
< 1293831849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Dude, you have ... way too many possessions.
< 1293831862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, at least, way too many possessions on ha- why do you carry a tripod everywhere.
< 1293831870 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a small tripod!
< 1293831887 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, "Travel around town or around the world" it says under "Key Features" (gah text as image, hate that). Does that mean the travel is included in the jacket somehow?
< 1293831887 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I missed my phone on that list lawl, that's a pocket too :P
< 1293831894 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, if so, can you opt out?
< 1293831898 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I missed my keys! Yeesh!
< 1293831909 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Vorpal said "key" :P )
< 1293831936 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah, and two hand pockets.
< 1293831940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Fill up the rest of your pockets with a wearable computer.
< 1293831948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could practically carry an i7 rig around in that jacket you're considering :P
< 1293831958 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, "(student ID and/or bus pass)" "(passport)" <-- don't both of those go into wallet?
< 1293831973 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I assume by "practically" you actually mean "practically", as in "it would be practical"
< 1293831994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ABSOLUTELY.
< 1293832002 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, "(larger electrogadgets)" <-- such as?
< 1293832007 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The former I have in a surface pocket for quick access. The latter ... who the hell has a wallet big enough for a passport?
< 1293832023 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, fair enough, but who carries passport around everywhere
< 1293832032 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: E-Reader, or sometimes nonelectrogadgets such as a book :P
< 1293832034 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, also what do you do during hot summer days?
< 1293832057 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, another thing: backpack. Tried it?
< 1293832064 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: During hot summer days I take off the sleeves. My passport pocket is reserved for my passport because I so frequently travel, although I of course don't have my passport when I'm not at least out-of-state.
< 1293832072 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Backpacks suck. I hate them with hatred.
< 1293832085 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, you need passport to travel between states in US?!
< 1293832096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need a passport to turn into a goat in the US.
< 1293832112 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, but it would not be the first time that I'd found myself unexpectedly going to Canada whilst on another trip.
< 1293832148 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, okay, why do backpacks suck? They are good for carrying laptop in (if you have a pocket large enough to carry a 15" laptop in I will be impressed. And also worried about the uneven load.)
< 1293832152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: First you have a few drinks... and then you're walking and you're not sure where you are ... next thing you know, you wake up in Canada.
< 1293832161 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :D
< 1293832162 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15" laptops suck :P
< 1293832167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You turn to look beside you, where in bed there lies a grizzly bear.
< 1293832168 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, 17" then?
< 1293832172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you get mauled to death.
< 1293832173 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17" laptops suck more
< 1293832174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happens to me all the time!
< 1293832186 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, a mounty! (sp)
< 1293832198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I gather there was a lot of mounting going on the previous night with that bear.
< 1293832220 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, so what laptop size do you prefer
< 1293832226 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293832239 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: As small as you can fit a full-size keyboard onto.
< 1293832252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why Gregor just bought an 11" MacBook Air.
< 1293832252 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, without numpad I presume?
< 1293832260 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Without numpad.
< 1293832266 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It also has to be a legit laptop :P
< 1293832268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, with numpad. You pull it out the side!
< 1293832280 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, never felt a need for large screen area?
< 1293832281 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a 12" ... I think? Maybe 13" :P
< 1293832285 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not one iota.
< 1293832293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I would argue the issue on this MacBook Air, but I have the 13", which you can actually pay more to get a decent laptop :P
< 1293832301 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, so you would be happy with a 640x480 2" display?
< 1293832305 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(very high DPI)
< 1293832314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't need large != fine with tiny.
< 1293832319 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That is one crazy-high DPI. Strap that on a headgear and I'd love it :P
< 1293832326 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well duh, I'm joking
< 1293832331 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, :D
< 1293832336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it wasn't funny.
< 1293832354 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My desktop had a 12" screen for ... good lord, years.
< 1293832356 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice google logo today
< 1293832364 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It finally died and I bought the smallest screen I could find, 19"
< 1293832370 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GMMXLe
< 1293832371 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Find on short notice that is)
< 1293832390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MMXI
< 1293832393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You moron.
< 1293832393 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, the l should be lower case
< 1293832396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an I.
< 1293832398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in capital I.
< 1293832403 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293832407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, Google would be celebrating 2010 at the LAST POSSIBLE MOMENT.
< 1293832410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would be hilarious, but no :P
< 1293832423 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOOH 2010 YAAoh it's gone.
< 1293832441 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, their xmas logo was not recognisable as google IMO.
< 1293832457 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People seem to think it was some kind of secret code.
< 1293832463 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm gonna go with "no" on that :P
< 1293832465 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw, http://www.google.com/logos/2010/culturetour10-hp.jpg)
< 1293832469 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, the logo?
< 1293832470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1293832470 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what?
< 1293832471 0 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293832475 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, guys.
< 1293832477 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The Jesusmas logo.
< 1293832493 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, well it doesn't contain google anywhere in it that I can see.
< 1293832500 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it mean if your laptop's screen spontaneously turns bright magenta, fixed instantly by a reboot, and then two days later, turns teal/blue, fixed instantly by a reboot?
< 1293832501 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm not disputing that :P
< 1293832502 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't press anything.
< 1293832506 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT DOES IT MEAN.
< 1293832520 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: It means God has chosen you to go on a quest to find the Holy Grate.
< 1293832522 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, that guy in the picture near the middle, when I first spotted it I went like "mario without his hat?"
< 1293832528 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: THOUGHT SO but really
< 1293832530 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I worry for my laptop
< 1293832549 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : What does it mean if your laptop's screen spontaneously turns bright magenta, fixed instantly by a reboot, and then two days later, turns teal/blue, fixed instantly by a reboot? <-- use warranty presumably
< 1293832553 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but google for it first
< 1293832562 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Well your laptop, being a messenger of God, is unfortunately doomed to burn in Hell for all �ternity.
< 1293832567 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I am not sure if this thing came with a warranty :P
< 1293832571 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't sign up for AppleCare.
< 1293832578 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kind of hard to google for, but I can't /find/ anything.
< 1293832591 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By "turns", I mean literally whole screen fill. Instantly.
< 1293832592 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While typing.
< 1293832604 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, at least in Sweden you will by law get at least n months of warranty (where n depends on type of product)
< 1293832616 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is Apple, they don't care about no laws!
< 1293832631 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well they have to. Or they would get into legal problems.
< 1293832648 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, being forbidden from operating in the country in question
< 1293832649 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple laughs in the face of legal problems!
< 1293832658 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah probably there is a warranty.
< 1293832664 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll give it a week or so to see if it keeps happening though.
< 1293832668 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may be an OS X bug, after all.
< 1293832677 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't expect two different colours from a hardware bug like that.
< 1293832688 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, could be pretty random
< 1293832698 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I mean, if it is something glitchy
< 1293832735 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be installing Ubuntu soon anyway.
< 1293832738 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'll see if it happens there.
< 1293832753 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having said that, reboots happen in like 5 seconds total, so I'm not complaining :P
< 1293832754 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woot SSDs.
< 1293832761 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, anyway I can think of hardware issues that would give non-predictable results. Quite a few in fact. Most however involves analogue and a A/D converter
< 1293832775 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, but it isn't orthogonally persistent!
< 1293832778 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293832785 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, but under @ it would be!
< 1293832820 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how fast a modern computer with a good SSD can random-read some fragmented 8 gigs from disk into RAM.
< 1293832830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, btw, I suspect ubuntu will boot a bit slower than 5 seconds
< 1293832841 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I mean, apple can fine tune for that exact hardware
< 1293832862 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and apple spent a lot of time on such things anyway
< 1293832887 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, OS X boots fast on anyhting.
< 1293832893 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But Ubuntu, as of 10.10, boots fast on anything.
< 1293832894 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*anything.
< 1293832901 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's not the OS, it's the SSD :-P
< 1293832908 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My iMac was 10x slower because of the disk churning.
< 1293832930 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, is 10.10 much faster than 10.04?
< 1293832940 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, 10.04 spends most time on my thinkpad in readahead
< 1293832955 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They spent a lot of time with 10.04 and 10.10 optimising the bootup.
< 1293832964 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, right.
< 1293833309 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1293833413 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if Vorpal could see that the google christmas logo had expandable pictures...

< 1293833614 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it did?
< 1293833638 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.  but i thought maybe that was javascript so you didn't see it...
< 1293833662 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah. What were they like
< 1293833682 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each of those pictures grew in size when you hovered over them
< 1293833693 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :showing a larger scene
< 1293833694 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, containing google logo somewhere?
< 1293833707 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...not that i recall
< 1293833710 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293833733 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293833741 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yet another hotel-visit balcony view panorama thing: http://zem.fi/~fis/P1080159-173.jpg
< 1293833979 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, loading
< 1293833992 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nice!
< 1293834043 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The... uh, it's fi:pilkkijä, dudes-who-fish-on-the-ice... well, those people, were pretty persistent; they were pretty much all the day out there.
< 1293834069 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, pilka or pika or something in Swedish I think. I'm not sure, the hobby doesn't really interest me
< 1293834122 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are also three rather curious-looking ones from the hotel atrium: http://zem.fi/~fis/P1080216-235.jpg http://zem.fi/~fis/P1080242-260.jpg http://zem.fi/~fis/P1080277-288.jpg
< 1293834161 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, for the first, what projection?
< 1293834169 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I assume it was less bendy?
< 1293834182 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you can see from the other that it is less bendy.
< 1293834191 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fake-fisheye lens for the first one.
< 1293834212 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait, they are the same? Very different white balance there
< 1293834239 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, as for the third, were some of the pics blurry?
< 1293834244 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(while other were very sharp)
< 1293834261 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nice pics though!
< 1293834267 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yes" to both. Shot freehand and in .jpg, so white-balance comes from camera settings, which I changed to be less yellow.
< 1293834269 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293834287 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why not raw (or was this your phone?)
< 1293834341 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not really sure why not; I guess mostly because it's a bit slower, and I had to take about four shots for each angle already, to get at least one not horribly blurry one at ISO 100. (Anything above that is horribly noisy on the camera.)
< 1293834371 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, enfuse to get rid of noise?
< 1293834382 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though without tripod that is doomed I guess
< 1293834442 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1293834466 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also two mobile-phone stitchings I took on the way to the hotel: http://zem.fi/~fis/20101229_032-040.jpg http://zem.fi/~fis/20101229_045-048.jpg
< 1293834497 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1293834540 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are a bit stripy, because the default camera app doesn't do fixed white balance, and hugin's exposure-optimization doesn't seem to be able to fix it well.
< 1293834548 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh I guess it is 2011 over there already? Happy new .fi year then
< 1293834569 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About 00:30 Jan 1st 2011 here, right. Thanks.
< 1293834591 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy new year
< 1293834726 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, don't see any stripes in the second. And quite subtle in the first. Using my laptop though. Not the best colour reproduction in the world
< 1293834768 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: terrible new year \o/
< 1293834768 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                             |
< 1293834768 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                             |\
< 1293834779 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The stripes aren't too bad in that since the lighting (overcast sky) was quite identical in all the shots, so the camera guesswork is probably rather similar in all the cases.
< 1293834850 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, should be possible to get white balance in one place on the n900 then use the same for the rest of the shots
< 1293834861 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I mean, it is an advanced phone. Surely doable.
< 1293834892 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the third-party "fcam" app that can do raw and manual settings and all, but it's not quite as user-friendly as the default app.
< 1293834905 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one thing, it doesn't auto-start when you open the camera cover, which is important out there in the cold. :p
< 1293834921 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, fair enough
< 1293834925 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I guess I could share the hotel-room photo(s) too, since it (they) turned out to be rather nice: http://zem.fi/~fis/P1080070-077_r.jpg + http://zem.fi/~fis/P1080096-108.jpg -- the first one in particular would not look that out of place in a hotel brochure or something, I think. (Well, discouting slight noisiness and such.)
< 1293835057 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comment by uploader of DS9 to YouTube: "@murphy3162 if i pretend all bad voyager episodes dont exist....then theres no series left."
< 1293835057 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also some visible seams in the first
< 1293835074 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, (middle of door frame)
< 1293835090 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that too.
< 1293835122 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the mirror in the second one looks weird
< 1293835168 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh it has bevelled edges?
< 1293835170 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does. I'm not sure if the mirror is just faceted weirdly. (But there's also a visible seam near the roof/wall edge at one point.)
< 1293835204 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaving shortly for new year stuff here
< 1293835205 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1293835210 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 minutes to midnight
< 1293835284 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an hour and forty minutes to go, you unwashed heathens.
< 1293835305 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An hour and twenty¬!
< 1293835319 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliott
< 1293835325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: nO
< 1293835326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*NO
< 1293835327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FORTY
< 1293835330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I EXIST IN GMT MINUS 20 MINUTES
< 1293835395 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pffft
< 1293835404 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why aren't you on some party anyway
< 1293835431 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :party. That would suck.
< 1293835448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats nooga -----###

< 1293835453 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fireworks -->
< 1293835458 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This channel is all the party I can handle!"
< 1293835472 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a norwegian speaking party at my flat
< 1293835475 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in*
< 1293835478 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whateva
< 1293835486 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan could join
< 1293835515 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Why are you not here?
< 1293835528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOOO OPARTY
< 1293835529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PARTY IN THE HOUS
< 1293835530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E
< 1293835532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PARTY IN THE HOUSE
< 1293835533 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does no one ever ask me that?
< 1293835533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PARTY WITH A MOUSE
< 1293835535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN THE HOUUUUUUUUSE
< 1293835539 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Maybe he's at some sort of a hip norwegian-speaking party.
< 1293835540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: because we call those periods tranquil silence
< 1293835546 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'll protect you my friend
< 1293835557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Phantom_Hoover already referenced Little Mouse yesterday so stfu.
< 1293835561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm practically a substitute for pikhq, what do you want to ask.
< 1293835568 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1293835572 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "Tastes good, less filling"?
< 1293835577 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a calm party
< 1293835593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ff
< 1293835594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dfk
< 1293835600 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have some drinks, salad, champagne and chillout music from this computer
< 1293835601 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Did you ever find a good deinterlacing filter in mplayer?
< 1293835609 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 ppl
< 1293835618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: He found a gigantic combination of filters that worked on hideous, hideous inputs :-P
< 1293835622 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ this channel
< 1293835639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I suspect that he would use something rather more conservative for, you know, _regular_ interlaced stuff.
< 1293835641 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's my duty to be on this # now
< 1293835689 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, btw. i've recently read Wouter's PhD thesis
< 1293835720 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really inspiring but graphical Aardappel is bad
< 1293835881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: aardappel is kinda fun though
< 1293835895 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1293835902 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's good
< 1293835910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not good but it is fun
< 1293835911 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eee
< 1293835911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1293835912 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1293835914 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IS GOOD
< 1293835922 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\but not this graphical notation
< 1293835941 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried to read aardappel qsort in a graphical form
< 1293835964 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was really hard compared to the textual version introdouced in the paper
< 1293835975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: oh by graphical you mean the list visualiation things?
< 1293835978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*visualiation
< 1293835979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*visualisation
< 1293835981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah those are silly
< 1293835983 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this aarded
< 1293835991 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :textual form is nice
< 1293836063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: you mean like, linear? 1 dimensional?
< 1293836064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame
< 1293836067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that defeats the point of aardappel
< 1293836368 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the PARADING
< 1293836370 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M
< 1293836371 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit!
< 1293836374 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :midnight!
< 1293836375 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1293836405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga is going to get really, really drunk really, really quickly.
< 1293837225 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noo
< 1293837227 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;p
< 1293837762 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1293837768 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy new year + 22 minutes everyone!
< 1293837811 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, weirdo.
< 1293837815 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, I'll protect you my friend  Sgeo: Phantom_Hoover already referenced Little Mouse yesterday so stfu. <-- why the sudden rise in number of references to it?
< 1293837819 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :New year is in 40 minutes!
< 1293837829 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, A SIGN OF THE END TIMES?
< 1293837842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY NOW CTHULHU
< 1293837847 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, wait. that was 2012.
< 1293837854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Off-by-one.
< 1293837908 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah. Even for Maya yes
< 1293837925 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the Romans counted off-by-one.
< 1293837934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what have they ever done for us?
< 1293837936 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, did they? In what way?
< 1293838021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : _  _                       _  _             __   __            _
< 1293838021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| || |__ _ _ __ _ __ _  _  | \| |_____ __ __ \ \ / /__ __ _ _ _| |
< 1293838021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| __ / _` | '_ \ '_ \ || | | .` / -_) V  V /  \ V / -_) _` | '_|_|
< 1293838021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|_||_\__,_| .__/ .__/\_, | |_|\_\___|\_/\_/    |_|\___\__,_|_| (_)
< 1293838021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :          |_|  |_|   |__/
< 1293838041 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, right. You found banner(1)?
< 1293838044 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah
< 1293838050 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, figlet
< 1293838054 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1293838066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg i don't have fist(1)
< 1293838076 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fist(1) ?
< 1293838091 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O
< 1293838103 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is that
< 1293838107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fourmilab.ch/fist/
< 1293838124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOLY SHIT, its configure script runs fast.
< 1293838126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know why?
< 1293838130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Guess values for system-dependent variables and create Makefiles.
< 1293838130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Generated automatically using autoconf version 2.13
< 1293838131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Copyright (C) 1992, 93, 94, 95, 96 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
< 1293838132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously. Dang.
< 1293838134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was fast.
< 1293838140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it didn't check if I have every function ever, either.
< 1293838162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, I have to make my own /opt/stow/fist/bin.
< 1293838205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/NHIE; I would spam it in-channel, but, uh, it's a bit long.
< 1293839026 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anybody know the conditions under which YouTube releases the time limit for particular accounts?
< 1293839050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "Used to be a director's account", I think :-P
< 1293839066 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a director. I don't even know what that means.
< 1293839096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Then I think you are fucked.
< 1293839098 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, it means they like you.
< 1293839117 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: In the good way?
< 1293839118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, so you had it removed and you don't know why?
< 1293839124 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah
< 1293839130 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Congratulations! Your account is now enabled for uploads longer than 15 minutes. Click the Upload button below to select a video."
< 1293839132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: YouTube does not run on logic.
< 1293839150 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to write a friggin' epic 2 hour piano piece.
< 1293839189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Dude... play some Merzbow. On piano.
< 1293839193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must.
< 1293839210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure how this amazing idea did not come to me much sooner.
< 1293839262 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... yeah.
< 1293839275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is that a "YES I WILL DO THAT".
< 1293839299 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries his hardest to force as much sarcasm as possible across the webertubes.

< 1293839326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You can't deny that you'd watch two hours of Merzpiano on YouTube.
< 1293839330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO MAKE EVERYONE ELSE'S DREAM COME TRUE
< 1293839332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Support this idea.
< 1293839376 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION approves of this message.

< 1293839385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION approves of this message.

< 1293839389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's approve of our own messages!
< 1293839457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :▌▌▄ ▄ ▄ ▖▖  ▄ ▗ ▖▖  ▖▖▗ ▄ ▖▖▐
< 1293839457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :▛▌▄▌▙▘▙▘▚▌  ▌▌▛▘▙▌  ▚▌▛▘▄▌▛ ▝
< 1293839457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :▘▘▀▘▘ ▘ ▄▘  ▘▘▝▘▀▘  ▄▘▝▘▀▘▘ ▝
< 1293839464 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's the rfk86 font.)
< 1293839496 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks nice in this terminal, less so in the xchat with empty spaces between lines.
< 1293839507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Does not work in the logs :P
< 1293839571 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I forgot to uppercase the other words.
< 1293839744 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Hey, it's not even a magical gconf key in eog. It's just Edit/Preferences/Image View/uncheck "smooth images when zoomed-out".
< 1293839767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh you Gnome cynics.
< 1293839778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: QUICK! WE MUST DEVISE GOLFSCRIPT 2: ELECTRIC BOOGALOO
< 1293839785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(saying this because you're the only person even remotely likely to agree with me)
< 1293839797 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/-out/-in/
< 1293839837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GolfScript is pretty good though.
< 1293839847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~{.@\%.}do; isn't a bad gcd.