< 1294617991 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I've exported the essay to LaTeX... < 1294618207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TODO: make the display of branches somehow a table. < 1294618259 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, who wants to see the stupidity I make up when scrambling to finish an essay at 12 o'clock? < 1294618337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1294618404 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that command-line pastebin? < 1294618412 0 :TLUL|afk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL < 1294618478 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, sprunge. < 1294618583 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/SRKV < 1294618605 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Advice welcome, since I suspect I'll have to hand this in for some exam or other. < 1294618962 0 :hagb4rd|afk!~perdito@koln-4db41d94.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1294619278 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd|afk: HOW CAN YOU JOIN WHEN YOU'RE AFK, THIS NO SENSE MAKE < 1294619365 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, he joined with his mind. < 1294619371 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1294619439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: I refuse to review anything other than the originale ssay. < 1294619443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*original essay. < 1294619460 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is essentially it. < 1294619469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: \author{Phantom Hoover} < 1294619470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt! < 1294619489 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made no alteration to the text other than to change \author from my real name to... NOT GOING TO BE THAT EASY < 1294619520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1294619525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what were those two name possibilities again < 1294619533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: FWIW, OS X has only had Comic Sans as of very recently, and Unix machines rarely ship with it. < 1294619538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I don't get this "every computer" stuff. < 1294619547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"other operating systems rapidly followed suit" -- no they did not < 1294619551 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wat < 1294619561 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, WROTE IT IN 2 HOURS < 1294619570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: of the two possible names ph can be < 1294619572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did fizzie get that < 1294619579 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FACTUAL ERRORS ARE FORGIVEABLE UNLESS BLINDINGLY CLEAR < 1294619586 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't recall < 1294619642 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also, it's an ENGLISH essay. < 1294619648 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Facts are irrelevant. < 1294619791 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may lie as much as you wish, as long as your grammar and spelling is impeccable. < 1294619808 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which they are! < 1294619815 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1294619816 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for the semicolon splices. < 1294619916 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g228062212.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1294619983 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1294620019 0 :hagb4rd|afk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :hagb4rd < 1294620043 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1294620086 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1294620088 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sry oerjan.. i was afk before i quit < 1294620093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=128995 < 1294620094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes! < 1294620099 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1294620148 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but to answer your question: remote control :p < 1294620224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah from screenshots this relaly makes everything smoother < 1294620226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*really < 1294620238 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah phantom did it < 1294620244 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn :/ < 1294620245 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: what a ridiculous concept! < 1294620256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did whata < 1294620271 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :concept would go too far < 1294620292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=128043 arbitrary shader mod! < 1294620308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://img443.imageshack.us/f/screenshot20110108at101.png/ if better light is better light, what is this? perfect light? < 1294620309 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets call it 'the creative moment of superposition' < 1294620336 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ME GO TOO FAR! < 1294620348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahahahahahahaaa: < 1294620350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Do not distribute anything I've made. This includes the client and the server software for the game. This also includes modified versions of anything I've made.]] < 1294620357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't redistribute the minecraft server which is available for free download < 1294620358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1294620476 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of inviting < 1294620528 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe me/you leak on trust for the culture of white man < 1294620726 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[pretty nice track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egdOBB-Z16c&fmt=18] < 1294620782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: what < 1294620806 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minima lelectro music < 1294620823 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel free to ignore it < 1294620824 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jzsrnTFhyQ I think I prefer this. < 1294620908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aza's texture pack looks nice... < 1294620908 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.. u mean my mistranslated thompson quote :> < 1294620915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. < 1294620918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what i mean < 1294621054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to flesh out list semantics. < 1294621080 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice1 pikhq :) < 1294621081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A list has a current selection. The arrow keys move this selection up/down or left/right (same thing) the list of focusable children. < 1294621106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The E key can be pressed to cause the current selection to be focused. Before this, the current selection stays as the list's widget. < 1294621146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The current selection's border is blue; other selections' borders are light grey. I might have some extra border colour for "selected and focused", but this is not very relevant, since you could tell by seeing whether there are any highlighted borders inside it. < 1294621182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The D key defocuses the current selection, and returns to the list, with it still selected. < 1294621185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Focusing a number makes it become blue-bordered, say, and then typing overwrites that number. < 1294621197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So e123d, when a number is selected, would turn it into 123. < 1294621249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The + or = key (not sure which) adds a new element after the current one in a list and selects it (but does not focus it, I don't *think*.) < 1294621262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably have an "insert before" key so that you can insert at the top of a list. < 1294621273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I do, then probably = should be insert after, and + should be insert before, since + is shifted = for me. < 1294621294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in an argument list, +e123d adds 123 as an argument after the current one. < 1294621324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Perhaps I should make sure that all examples have the same number of arguments? That could be a pain (although maybe not), but it would be nice if it could do that somehow and... automatically add blank arguments to the others? Not sure.) < 1294621331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it would be +ie123d. < 1294621348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since + would take the type in an argument list; either integer (i) or list (l). < 1294621386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So +le+ie123d+ie456d+ie789d adds the list [123 456 789] after the current argument. < 1294621392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps e should be implicit after +. < 1294621403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case, it would be: (oh, and I'm using + to mean = here, i.e. insert after) < 1294621415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+l+i123d+i456d+i789d < 1294621421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's certainly nicer, but perhaps more confusing. I'll have to see. < 1294621434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Backspace or something deletes the current selection. < 1294621451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a set, obviously, everything gets sorted, so no matter where you add an element, it'll move to the right place after you enter the name. < 1294621463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On that note: in a bag, there's an extra type other than i and l, f for function. < 1294621483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is used in place of d when writing a string. (Perhaps should be a synonym for d everywhere.) < 1294621500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So +fesucc or +fsucc (if e is implicit) adds succ to the current bag. < 1294621503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it. < 1294621523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other things I should probably have: keys to jump to the branch list and bag of the current function, no matter where you are in it. < 1294621535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, a command called / which has you type in a function name, press enter, and it jumps there. < 1294621562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this could actually work! < 1294621574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, s or Cmd+s or whatever saves. Obviously. < 1294621587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saving will have to exit the current item if it's an integer or string to make sure it gets updated properly... < 1294621601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably also store history here, but I'm not sure how. Maybe just copy the whole thing on every change and store it in memory, the ghetto way. :p < 1294621872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also also, the focus starts on the program object, which is just a set of functions (well, really a dictionary, but you don't see that). < 1294621896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, + just takes a name and creates a function. Perhaps it should actually do an implicit "ee", i.e. enter into the function, and enter into the name. < 1294621904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously it would remove it if you try and name a function an existing name or whatever. < 1294621907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or don't give it a name. < 1294622000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=11997 The Minecraft Society of Blowing People's Chests Up. < 1294622005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wholeHEARTEDLY approve. < 1294622109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/ez76j/living_underground_playing_minecraft_in_moleman/ < 1294622115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really want to do this as a two-person SMP thing. < 1294622119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll convince PH. < 1294624139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so basically, I keep a list index (or object references for sets? Or for everything? I have no direct object duplicates... eh, TODO: figure this out.) in each list object. < 1294624148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And make sure it all gets highlighted and have bindings to move around that list. < 1294624154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I just have a binding to focus the current index/whatever. < 1294624168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each widget itself has a key to focus its parent, which accomplishes "going up" one, i.e. exiting (d). < 1294624172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And ). < 1294624176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And perhaps .) < 1294624178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*.) < 1294624183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, this could work. < 1294624209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously integers just have to snarf the keys 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and - when they're focused and do the obvious (*10)+. < 1294624216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although - might require some trickery. < 1294624226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should keep it as a string until the whole integer's written. < 1294624229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe not. Whatever. < 1294624390 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1294624453 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1294624485 0 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric < 1294624634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[["We" don't make us Ninjas or Rockstars - we still have the notion of "Monks". You might think this is stupid - on a cultural level you're basically comparing living the boheme with celebacy - guess what speaks to < 1294624634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people?]] < 1294624636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the silliest article ever < 1294624736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ah Perl, a ... weapon ... from an ... age." —reddit < 1294624961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1sXuHnf_lo Deldo, teledildonics for Emacs. WJW. < 1294625038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god he's having sex with Steve Yegge via Emacs. What is this. < 1294625161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bahahaha networked teledildonics < 1294625273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's proposing teledildonical eugenics to wipe out vi. < 1294625472 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1294625475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1294626198 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL|afk < 1294626677 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would a language that does a random walk among all its instructions (and otherwise TC) be considered TC because it will *eventually* perform whatever it is that you actually intended < 1294626972 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that sounds like it would be an infinitely long computation, wouldn't it? and defining what it means for infinite computation models to be TC is very subtle < 1294627025 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is that you need some kind of output translation algorithm to look through the actual random walk to say what the final result is < 1294627092 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the question is then, is it your random walk or the output translation that is doing most of the _real_ computation? < 1294627151 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a problem for such things as rule 110 cellular automaton and that minimal turing machine which ais523 proved < 1294627353 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both of which require an infinite setup which calculates forever < 1294627365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: ^ < 1294627446 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rule 110 cellular automation ? < 1294627449 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles < 1294627491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also to be nitpicking, theoretically TC should always be about computing a result somehow, whether it is also performing "actions" is fairly irrelevant < 1294627583 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the other one see http://www.wolframscience.com/prizes/tm23/solved.html < 1294627584 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so my question should have been "since it will eventually compute whatever it is you intended" < 1294627596 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ps - nitpicky is good for me - it helps me learn < 1294627610 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: well you see you have to have some way to decide on _one_ result to get out of it < 1294627649 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(warning, everything wolfram is embedded in an ocean of hype) < 1294627788 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might compute as many other things it wants, but at the end you have to have a way to choose, and if that way is itself too computationally complex it is too easy to cheat < 1294627824 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so what your saying is that the chooser itself becomes what becomes TC so the random walk doesn't matter < 1294627847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can happen yes. although sometimes there is a combination. < 1294627953 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the rule 110 automaton you need infinite setup and extraction of result but each of those is essentially still a finite state automaton (i think) < 1294628001 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in some sense they're still "simple" < 1294628094 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the 2,3-turing machine case the setup is even more complicated, and there was a debate about whether it was simple enough < 1294628155 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i recall ais523 telling that the output extraction was still a very simple check) < 1294628171 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1294631497 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1294631524 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-195-158.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1294632230 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1294632298 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think ive started to understand how continuation based backtracking works < 1294632298 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::T < 1294632540 0 :TLUL|afk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL < 1294632627 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1294632697 0 :azaq231!~derivecto@p4FF6868A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1294632699 0 :azaq231!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1294632710 0 :azaq231!~derivecto@p4FF6868A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1294632724 0 :azaq231!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1294632724 0 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1294632785 0 :azaq23!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1294632938 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's my essay about comic sans: "Comic Sans is not monospaced, nuff said." < 1294632977 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Comic Sans is not monospaced", Nuff said. < 1294633016 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds it funny how bad people are at driving in snow. < 1294633038 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh my god there's half an inch of snow! I CAN'T DRIVE!" < 1294633045 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for you non-Americans, that's 1 or 2 cm) < 1294633130 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.27 < 1294633173 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Ballpark figures get ballpark conversions from me. < 1294633205 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.270000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 < 1294633219 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 0s are irrelevant digits! < 1294633225 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1294633233 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOUR digits are irrelephant! < 1294633234 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: congratulations < 1294633238 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An inch is *defined as* precisely 25.4e-3 m! < 1294633248 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know. < 1294633253 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: :D < 1294633254 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1294633256 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was sort of his point < 1294633285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. < 1294633305 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. < 1294633315 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually saw people *parked on the side of the road*. < 1294633341 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the significance of that, said the foreigner? < 1294633360 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do americans only use fancy big parking lotw < 1294633361 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lots < 1294633371 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Their thoughts were "Oh fuck it's too bad I'm going to wait this out". < 1294633382 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh like just a random road < 1294633389 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Meanwhile I'm driving by at ~45 mph (~70 kph). < 1294633399 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose that's sort of the definition of road < 1294633429 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we rarely have half an inch of snow on the roads because people drive about as much as in the summer < 1294633451 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. probably much less, but you don't need that many cars to remove the snow. < 1294633472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It happens when it's snowing pretty well, and it's evening. < 1294633482 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it might < 1294633486 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't actually own a car < 1294633573 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should prolly go to uni and try to study a bit < 1294633754 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think i now understand the green's stuff completely, the lemmas are just because you first prove that there is a kind of inverse element for each *pair* of identity elements in the same D class, for D = L \circle R (an eq relation), that is, for each x, eRx, fLx where e and f are idempotents, there is a unique fRyLe such that xy=e, yx=f < 1294633788 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is actually pretty easy, but you have to guess what y is, by building it from the elements used in the implementations of L and R relations < 1294633804 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the same meaning of implementation as i used yesterday < 1294633843 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so xRy ~ xs = y, ys' = x would mean s and s' implement the relation, not sure that's a good term but anyhows < 1294633885 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the really complex looking lemma i listed yesterday is actually very simple when you think of it in terms of these diagrams representing D classes < 1294633951 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D = R \circle L so have R classes as rows and L classes as columns, then what the lemma says, or on of the things, is that if left multiplication takes an element in an R class a to another R class b, then actually the whole class a is bijected onto b < 1294633998 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db40fe0.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1294634029 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and L classes are preserved when multiplying a's elements from the left (by that element we chose), since well obviously because there's another element whose multiplication from the left inverts the operation < 1294634030 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1294634050 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really very clear this way either, but trust me, it's clear when you draw a diagram and move your fingers along it! < 1294634141 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhow so in short, H classes within one R class a are bijected onto H classes of the other R class b, if you multiply from the left by an element implementing the L relation between two elements x \in a, y \in b < 1294634191 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'll run away screaming now < 1294634220 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1294634242 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stuff in the inverse semigroups chapter is waaaaaaaay more complicated < 1294634293 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd love to rant about it but < 1294634299 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should probably read it once more < 1294634306 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to do that, i should probably leave < 1294634323 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway in short: < 1294634339 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inverse element of x is y such that xyx = x, yxy = y < 1294634348 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inverse semigroup = all have unique inverses < 1294634370 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in short my brain is not capable of this stuff today < 1294634387 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trace of a congruence is the restriction of it on the semilattice of idempotents (nontrivial that it's a semilattice, essentially needs the same proof we spend hours on back when) < 1294634391 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1294634399 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't really care! < 1294634403 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so umm < 1294634404 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where was i < 1294634410 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeeeeeah < 1294634413 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you don't mind speaking to yourself < 1294634417 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now for each congruence on an inverse semigroup < 1294634426 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you might not be listening, but others might! < 1294634432 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDDDDDDD < 1294634434 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway so < 1294634441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUUUUURE < 1294634493 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ninjapirate.com/newcomputer.html < 1294634496 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let p be a congruence, we can define p_{min} = complicated shit; then we can prove, using a page of dense impossibl- to-understand algebration, that p_{min} is the smallest congruence with the same trace < 1294634499 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for p_{max} < 1294634517 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's the greatest sexiness eva < 1294634565 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such a uniqueness of minimul suchness is not the case for all regular semigroups < 1294634578 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the case of groups, that is an empty definition < 1294634584 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is usually the case in semigroup theory < 1294634591 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is essentially the theory of idempotents afaiu < 1294634616 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay rant over, you don't have to feel bad about me wasting my time anymore < 1294634633 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY < 1294635202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1294635398 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll continue after the exam, try to get your brain up and running with puzzles and shit while i'm gone k?! < 1294635490 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVER < 1294635502 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::((( < 1294635511 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok MAYBE < 1294635530 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1294635566 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should actually try to clean up this place, i moved about a week ago, and i still haven't moved a single object < 1294635572 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe like 5 objects < 1294635573 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhow -> < 1294635576 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1294635580 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should do that today < 1294635588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck on the exam < 1294635592 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's possible i won't be here all day < 1294635594 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1294635602 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it's super hard < 1294635605 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1294635608 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1294635625 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to the guy who deduced how clue works from ski < 1294635685 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm sure i'll manage with 5 hours of sleep < 1294635732 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1294636073 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My new favorite game is Super PSTW < 1294636090 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll have to update shutup then < 1294636096 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks < 1294636097 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was joking < 1294636111 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has no idea what Super PSTW is anyhow < 1294636118 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/495903 < 1294636287 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-143.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1294636478 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1294636684 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1294639175 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no < 1294639180 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mercury < 1294639216 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Evil Planet < 1294639228 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, uh uh < 1294639260 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_definitely_ time to update shutup < 1294639310 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it will need to be provided with an AI capable of determining when I'm expressing an interest in something new. < 1294639335 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds plausible < 1294639512 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this sounds like a lot of redundant typing that Haskell eliminates via the IO monad < 1294639520 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1294639547 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Mercury IO predicates manually take in and give back the state of the world] < 1294639582 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1294639582 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naming all these intermediate states quickly becomes tedious, so Mercury < 1294639582 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :provides us with syntactic sugar in the form of state variables" < 1294639583 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh good < 1294639829 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll look at it in more detail tomorrow < 1294639837 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just got confused by a line that looks backwards < 1294640042 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1294640830 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1294641128 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL|rlybusy < 1294641194 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1294642302 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1294642889 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1294642900 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1294643110 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1294643245 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick! Everyone count to zero! < 1294643252 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Quick_Everyone_c < 1294643254 0 :Quick_Everyone_c!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1294643291 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at last a request we can fill < 1294643550 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't do it though. this isn't #irp < 1294643566 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you did. < 1294643594 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you lie. < 1294643612 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watch me count to zero again: < 1294643668 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1 .. 0] < 1294643668 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [] < 1294643672 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1294643691 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he didn't say to start counting at 1 < 1294643699 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most computer scientists start at zero < 1294643703 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the default duh < 1294643705 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that requires counting at least zero < 1294643737 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...you show me an average computer scientist who starts at zero when counting actual items < 1294643774 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he didn't ask anyone to count actual items < 1294643792 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop making up arbitrary situations where you're right and i'm not :P < 1294643802 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MWAHAHAHA* < 1294643947 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, me, out of habit, on occasion < 1294643965 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*counting chairs to remember where I sit* 0, 1, 2, < 1294643967 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I SAID AVERAGE < 1294643981 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :supergeeks don't count < 1294644061 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an annoying bug or something that is pissing me off. my microSD card unmounts always and only when i copy files to it < 1294644066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads up on the no true computer scientist fallacy < 1294644073 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ lie < 1294644074 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :creating files on it is fine, copying files from it is fine. < 1294644098 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to punt it but then i'd lose it...it's too small < 1294644123 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suggests cat > < 1294644139 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries < 1294644297 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still fails and unmounts but takes longer in doing it < 1294644304 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1294644324 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about touch followed by cat >> ? < 1294644334 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(FOR SCIENCE!) < 1294644380 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :failed fast again < 1294644395 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the size of the file copied matter? < 1294644396 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the touch worked though) < 1294644408 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i tried a pretty small one and it failed < 1294644414 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try an uber small one < 1294644467 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, a 4byte file copies fine < 1294644534 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about a slow-speed write with something like perl -e 'open IN, "<:raw", "/input/file"; open OUT, ">:raw", "/output/file"; while (read IN, $data, 512) { print OUT $data; sleep 1; }' -- that's half a kilobyte per second. < 1294644595 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently half a kilobyte is too big < 1294644608 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the block size? < 1294644612 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just tried to echo 10 lines of t's into a file and it failed < 1294644634 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens if you echo >> 10 times? < 1294644743 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it appears to fail as soon as the file reaches a certain (extremely small size) < 1294644749 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme try again slower < 1294644801 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just wondering if it's absolute file size or just amount written in one go < 1294644850 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently if i wait long enough between appending 80 or so bytes at a time i can make big files < 1294644859 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1294644878 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries the perl script with a 80 byte rate < 1294644880 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so it's not enought to close in between, you have to wait? < 1294644891 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1294644903 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echoing really quick in a row still breaks it < 1294644920 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could try echo + sync + echo + sync; though that sort of thing is probably going to wear out the card quicker. < 1294644931 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have to always erase a full block when writing, after all. < 1294644968 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :odds are it's an issue with the card reader < 1294644983 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know the card is fine < 1294645215 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1294645249 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1294645294 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is now writing a file at 40 bytes/sec >_> < 1294645377 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if this slow speed means it syncs so that it does that erase a full block everything thing... < 1294645400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*everytime < 1294645404 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeahhhhhhhhhhh... < 1294645416 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just for science anyway < 1294645543 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What're you doing? < 1294645589 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :running fizzie's perl script < 1294645675 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: MINDLINK. I had committed-and-pushed a (very preliminary probably broken) //save command (which saves the so-far received block data, sans signs, furnaces and chests, into a hopefully Minecraft-compatible world-dir) about an hour before you had that feature request. < 1294645677 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION discovers r/inglip < 1294645720 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, HOW DARE YOU STEAL MY THOUGHTS BEFORE I EVEN THINK THEM < 1294645732 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's any consolation, it probably doesn't work. < 1294645786 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if he is witnessing the birth of a meme < 1294645815 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only tried the resulting world with pynemap, and, well, http://zem.fi/~fis/pynemap.png -- there's a bit of it that's missing. < 1294645840 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the lighting values are likely to be very worng. < 1294645866 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the heightmap I know is mirrored over the x=z line. < 1294645894 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The heightmap is used as a speedup for computing the final light values from block-light and skylight, or some-such.) < 1294645918 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, inglip? < 1294645975 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the perlscript expt failed < 1294645987 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://www.reddit.com/r/fffffffuuuuuuuuuuuu/comments/eybba/dark_captcha_magic/ < 1294645996 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it's good enough for my plot to blow up Mt. Vorpal locally. < 1294646011 0 :azaq231!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1294646031 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course http://www.reddit.com/r/Inglip/ < 1294646032 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You shouldn't say stuff like that before actually verifying whether it works in the actual game at all. < 1294646056 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah, it's Zalgo 2.0. < 1294646062 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I WILL < 1294646067 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: possibly < 1294646079 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i guess that means it may have troubles competing < 1294646122 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zalgo does have something of a monopoly on the field of memetic Lovecraftian horrors. < 1294646399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1294646400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1294646521 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this Inglip seems a teeny bit reluctant though < 1294646544 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*this Inglip daemon < 1294646546 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1294646637 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'll try out the saved world now... < 1294646730 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It is possible you may fall into your death. < 1294646768 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have tried it myself, but I always get queasy when there are glitches in 3D-y games. < 1294646787 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I can confirm that it does indeed work. < 1294646800 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no! Wait, what? Where's the "not" in that sentence? < 1294646801 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spawned on Mt. Vorpal, and I saw the skyway in the distance. < 1294646833 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then what happened? < 1294646882 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The experience must've been so horrible, it robbed him of the power of speech. How tragic! < 1294646892 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, it even captured the front half of nailor's cabin. < 1294646897 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks a bit forlorn. < 1294646922 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's the lighting? < 1294647015 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine. < 1294647021 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird. < 1294647029 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I only explored the overground bits. < 1294647064 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At this point I just want to load hMod locally and give myself a load of TNT. < 1294647095 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can server-command-'give' yourself 64 blocks of TNT even without any hMods. < 1294647121 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The //save-enabled mcmap build will use 2.5 times as much memory as the normal version, which is a bit of a shame. I should possibly do the whole "persist far-away chunks to file" thing the usual client does; then there wouldn't be a separate //save, it'd be intemagrated. < 1294647182 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use mmap:ed memory for everything? :> < 1294647217 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes, but I want to turn health off. < 1294647265 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Just plain old data-structure dumps won't be combattible with the official client on-disk formats, unfortunately. < 1294647298 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah... unless your memory format is compatible < 1294647426 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The NBT thing it uses is a bit uncomfortable to work with. < 1294647430 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and it needs to be gzipped. < 1294647682 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, screw that then :) but you can always build converters from your format to official-client format < 1294648906 0 :wth!~tianhou@122.82.35.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1294649180 0 :wth!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1294649868 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. Dynamite disappears after a short time, and doesn't do anything when punched. < 1294649986 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only happens in some chunks. < 1294650751 0 :wth!~tianhou@122.82.35.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1294650793 0 :wth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1294650815 0 :wth!~tianhou@122.82.35.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1294650870 0 :wth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1294651098 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ilua < 1294651364 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, your house is next. < 1294651415 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just hope you don't get confused, accidentally connect to the real server, and then explode the *beep* out of it. < 1294651706 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't have 5 stacks of dynamite on the real server. < 1294651739 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the amount of TNT I used on your house seems to have broken the world... < 1294651882 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So this is how the world ends. < 1294652249 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not with a bang but with a NullPointerException. < 1294652967 0 :quintopi1!~quintopia@209.59.220.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1294653010 0 :quintopi1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1294654841 0 :TLUL|rlybusy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, look at this: http://goo.gl/4yVWN < 1294654874 0 :TLUL|rlybusy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has ruined breakfast for some of you < 1294655090 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have HAD breakfast, fool! < 1294655150 0 :TLUL|rlybusy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 5:30, fool < 1294655167 0 :TLUL|rlybusy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :europenub < 1294655401 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:30, more like. < 1294656030 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:38! < 1294656203 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1294656239 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1294656241 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1294656241 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1294656605 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh it saves now? excellent. < 1294656648 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to sorta-work for some purposes, but it's all reasonably experimental still. < 1294656686 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how does one enable this saving? < 1294656758 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's just a command to dump the currently-in-memory world into a directory. "//save" (which uses "world" in current dir), or "//save dir" if you want to specify where it goes. < 1294656786 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also how comes that part of the --help output is localised to Swedish? < 1294656797 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's from glib. < 1294656799 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1294656866 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm is it able to dump a larger area than that which the server lets you see at a single point in time? < 1294656921 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It dumps whatever you have seen during the "session". < 1294656930 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah nice < 1294657005 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably make it also load an existing dump and in general auto-persist the world on disk at some point, in order to reduce memory use for long-running game sessions where you wander around far and wide. < 1294657027 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Plus that way you'll have the map from the previous session as "background"; should probably shade it or something to indicate it may be out-of-date, though.) < 1294657053 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, might be a good idea to be able to turn off this tracking in case you don't want that memory overhead. Like when I play on my local test server. < 1294657098 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is currently no way for it to forget any chunks, but there probably should. < 1294657131 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any way to tell when it finished saving? < 1294657138 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, there it comes < 1294657145 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that took some time) < 1294657152 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's suspiciously slow. < 1294657154 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, http://imgur.com/3Wjwh < 1294657184 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well it is your local copy. As long as it doesn't happen on the actual server. *shrug* < 1294657214 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a feeling Vorpal wasn't supposed to have noticed that :D < 1294657224 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I did read scrollback :P < 1294657230 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have since corrupted the copy, though. < 1294657230 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1294657231 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ^ < 1294657246 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm? < 1294657274 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, I used an insane amount of TNT on fizzie's place and it corrupted the world data after crashing the server. < 1294657287 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ouch. < 1294657299 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, did you find fizzie's hidden chest by any chance? < 1294657319 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, another question: do signs and such things work? Chests? < 1294657327 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you get empty signs and chests? < 1294657331 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, no, although I did find two of yours. < 1294657338 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're empty, though. < 1294657355 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although I still looked inside them on the actual server.) < 1294657406 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I don't care what you do with your local copy as long as you don't steal anything on the actual server and don't mess it up there either. < 1294657455 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, notice I have never messed up your place so far, so I assume you won't mess up mine. :) < 1294657481 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be picking apart fizzie's house soon, though/ < 1294657493 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, not on the actual server I presume? < 1294657500 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chests will be empty, and signs will be gone completely. < 1294657510 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also furnaces should disappear. < 1294657518 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For some values of "should".) < 1294657525 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly just their contents. < 1294657528 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we need an extension like realms or similar. I hope we don't < 1294657534 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, they still exist. < 1294657540 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, then it's just their contents. < 1294657555 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about crops? < 1294657561 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those should be there. < 1294657574 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but isn't the growth stored as aux data? < 1294657578 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you track that? < 1294657584 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, nowadays. < 1294657587 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1294657604 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can compile-time disable that, though it will also disable //save. < 1294657611 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1294657765 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What will not be stored in the //save dump are Entities (mobs, items, paintings, vehicles, primed TNT and currently falling sand) and TileEntities (furnace and chest contents, signs, mob spawner details). < 1294657783 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait, paintings are entities!? < 1294657791 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains why they don't work on SMP < 1294657947 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, FWIW, test 2 of //save was far less positive. < 1294657955 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what happened? < 1294657962 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a jumbled mess of saved chunks and generated ones. < 1294657980 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw: any progress on the surface-and-heightmap corruption bug? < 1294657991 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, huh, did you save before everything loaded? < 1294658007 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. I'll retry... < 1294658013 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not really. I stared at it, but didn't figure it out. < 1294658026 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's probably best to wait that the situation is "stable". < 1294658061 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The hashmap walk will probably fail in the middle of the save (silently, to boot) if it's modified (read: chunk-update for a so far unseen chunk) during the save. < 1294658145 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that saving and updates are done by the same thread, so that shouldn't happen. < 1294658145 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that must happen a lot since the save takes like 20-30 seconds? < 1294658147 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I have a nice square area. < 1294658188 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saved it, will start blowing stuff up. < 1294658215 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun in your local copy < 1294658270 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, remember that you only need 5000 TNT going off at once to blow up one obsidian! < 1294658328 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, to make sure they go off at once I suggest redstone wiring. Be sure to time them right when it comes to inverters (so every TNT have the same number of inverters on the path to it) < 1294658359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however I'm not sure what this will do to the server < 1294658371 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is door position saved btw? < 1294658376 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Some chunks have spawn-like protection on them. < 1294658394 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well, where is your local spawn then? < 1294658410 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, presumably the area around that spawn is protected < 1294658420 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't really explain it; some other chunks are unprotected. < 1294658427 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, *protected. < 1294658431 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, huh < 1294658443 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, do you have admin rights on your local hmod server? < 1294658459 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but again, that doesn't explain *why* they have the protection. < 1294658474 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I got another world-destroying NullPointerException. < 1294658478 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, any weird plugins? < 1294658492 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I assume you made a copy before starting the local server? < 1294658496 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not do that for the next time < 1294658499 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The world spawn position may be set to something rather weird. < 1294658518 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, such as? < 1294658542 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's supposed to be set to wherever you appeared first when connecting. < 1294658581 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I just took the first PLAYER_MOVE packet sent by the server.) < 1294658634 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1294658635 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably take the last seen SPAWN_POSITION packet. (Currently I don't look at those at all.) < 1294658659 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though then it'd be the regular spawn, which might easily be outside the //save'd region. < 1294658667 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I think I found fizzie's secret chest. < 1294658668 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly I could just use player position at //save time. < 1294658682 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: In the house or in the bunker? < 1294658690 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, in the house. < 1294658697 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it's empty on the real server too. < 1294658705 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I detonated a TNT charge in it and I found a chest. < 1294658708 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on checking with the interactive map viewer minutor (rather good, and very quick and responsive) the dump I made worked fine < 1294658715 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIME TO SEE HOW THE BUNKER HOLDS UP < 1294658767 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, the TNT room will hold up just fine. And in case of nuclear war I have always planned to block the door up with obsidian. (since steel door won't last for long against TNT) < 1294658804 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, does the server send the random seed to the client or? < 1294658812 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I just got into the bunker without even bothering with the doors. < 1294658822 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The storeroom is ridiculously easy to break into. < 1294658841 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, fizzie's bunker you mean? < 1294658842 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1294658863 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's like single block of stone and one layer of dirt. < 1294658867 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, the random seed is sent. < 1294658890 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw it seems you can get bedrock holes again in recent versions < 1294658907 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know those underground lakes? And lava lakes at non-standard altitudes? < 1294658923 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I've heard you can get a lake over bedrock. < 1294658927 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can result in holes in the bedrock when they end up at a suitable altitude for that < 1294658947 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re the random seed, you'll of course get post-halloween map-generation even on blocks that would be pre-halloween on our server, if they don't end up in the //save-dump. < 1294659016 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't have mcmap when I started with the bunker, which sort-of explains why it's so near the surface. Didn't bother thinking about where I were inside the mountain. < 1294659035 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's also the reason the storage room is L-shaped; I was making it a long I-shaped one, but I hit the mountain wall. < 1294659058 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1294659175 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, an idea for mcmap which would be cool but is not really high priority: ability to load an image and overlay it on terrain with, say, 25% alpha or such. Perfect when you are doing mega-engineering. Currently I did this with cartographer + gimp but cartographer takes ages. < 1294659220 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is also useful to check that you did indeed get it right between the point of planning it and it being finished. So you can check the dimensions halfway < 1294659281 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(still the map corruption bug is more important than that idea) < 1294659286 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(way more important) < 1294659405 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mhm, well, sure; that could be done. < 1294659426 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, found it. < 1294659434 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the cactus farm? < 1294659444 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well done. Though blabbing on-channel is a bit impolite! < 1294659460 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now someone will steal all my treasureres. < 1294659465 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT WAS A LIE I FOUND NOTHING < 1294659466 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, let me tell you that it would be a sanity saver when working on a 200x200 sized structure. :P And so would fixing the corruption bug when working on the upper parts of said structure < 1294659502 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, really it was quite easy to find it already with mcmap < 1294659531 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I had a hunch it was around there since some time when I had mcmap in mode 2 when visiting you and noticed a 1x2 black thing in the wall < 1294659916 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Death to the subtree! < 1294660012 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for the hell of it, I'm going to send down a 5x5 raft of TNT. < 1294660024 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This will probably break the server. < 1294660024 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, raft? < 1294660115 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's that. < 1294660407 0 :TLUL|rlybusy!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: *disappears in a puff of orange smoke* < 1294660496 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm is the area around spawn never unloaded on servers? < 1294660517 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so that is the perfect place to place some redstone stuff that should run all the time < 1294660635 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"NOTE: This event is not suitable for undergraduate students". I wonder what sort of DIRTY PORNOGRAPHY they're going to show in this three-hour MathWorks-given "Programming Techniques to Speed up MATLAB/Parallel Computing with MATLAB/Symbolic Computing with MATLAB" seminar. < 1294660638 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What like? < 1294660727 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you have a rather strange mind. Personally it seems perfectly innocent to me. Just meaning "this is too technical for that group" or such < 1294660777 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no chance whatsover that a three-hour PR session is going to be "too technical" for undergraduates; there must be another reason. < 1294660796 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, PR? < 1294660827 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not going to come here just out of a desire to be helpful. < 1294660838 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, are you going to go there? < 1294660864 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. It's three hours I'd never get back; and ineiros attended the previous one and I think it was a bit "meh", IIRC. < 1294660878 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1294660900 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, there's a half-hour "Break", which might include free cookies. < 1294660969 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the third hand, I didn't know people were actually doing symbolic stuff with MATLAB; that smells a bit desperate to me. < 1294661032 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently they've (MathWorks, that is) bought a symbolic algebra company and "integrated" their product as a MATLAB Toolbox now. (Well, now == 2008 in this case.) < 1294661038 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MuPAD) < 1294661259 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1294661273 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: They had some useful advice. < 1294661298 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, hi there < 1294661310 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Though you could get 85% of the information in 15 minutes by reading the slides they provided. < 1294661334 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gawds, I hate the parcel-tracking of the Finnish post office; it has a textfield which auto-empties itself whenever it gains focus. So if you have, say, a parcel ID code in another browser tab in a non-pasteable form, you have to either remember the whole 17-digit number, or transcribe it elsewhere first for pasting. (Because if you write down only part of it, it'll get erased when you switch back to the tab.) < 1294661556 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it's just the front-page quick-link textfield that does it; the actual tracking-page field doesn't. < 1294661873 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, in a non-pastable form? < 1294661939 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, like an image? < 1294661941 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so wtf < 1294661969 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. For some unfathomable reason, the "delivered via the web-e-post-system" hey-we-have-your-parcel notes are scan-like images of the ones they deliver on paper. < 1294662016 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they're not really scans, since evince does manage to extract text from the "open as PDF" version. < 1294662037 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the thing shown in the web-system is a bona-fide image. < 1294662087 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they are "imagey" because they want the bar code to appear properly, and there are form fields for signatures and whatever on it. < 1294662109 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the PDF variants have the dubious distinction of being unprintable from Evince. < 1294662347 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1294662367 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, evince respects copy protection? < 1294662369 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised < 1294662383 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it just prints them... well, I'll take a photo. < 1294662391 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, garbled? < 1294662404 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, does it work in other pdf viewers, such as okular? < 1294662416 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works with acroread. < 1294662419 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't tried others. < 1294662433 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had problems printing pdf on some computers but not on other ones < 1294662441 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also shows up just fine on-screen in Evince, it's just the printout that turns out like http://users.ics.tkk.fi/htkallas/20110110_001.jpg (the red blocks are my own redactions). < 1294662459 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly from my desktop running arch, and it seems to have been related to a cups upgrade. < 1294662465 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it seems to work again now) < 1294662495 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah different type of garbling < 1294662497 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The barcode in the Evince print is correct, so theoretically speaking it might be that I could use that printout to claim the parcel; I've never bothered to try, though. < 1294662510 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also I see some was *red*acted ;P < 1294662536 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was just my name and address, and I'm not exactly sure why I bothered, since it's not especially difficult to find out. < 1294662540 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1294662561 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, also the sender company's name. < 1294662666 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm. Must have been some dirty MathWorks thing then ;P < 1294662724 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You caught me: it was a package full of toolboxes. (Well no, not really.) < 1294663301 0 :cheater-!~cheater@e181131170.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1294663372 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1294664619 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1294664693 0 :cheater-!~cheater@g230230230.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1294664961 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, speaking of movecraft and chests: worldedit managed to move a chest with the //move command just fine. So probably isn't too hard < 1294665568 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling that in these server-side inventory times, chest contents are only sent on-demand, so //save can't dump chest contents unless the player actually looks inside. < 1294665644 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1294665792 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw if it helps: the map corruption bug doesn't happen only when placing blocks up high through the client. If you use worldedit to set a block at similar altitudes it also happens. So presumably related to chunk update rather than sending "place block here" kind of message < 1294665886 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been dumping the chunk-update/set-block/multi-set-block messages, but haven't figured it out yet. I think next thing I'll try (later, though) is to dump only those packets that actually cause map-visible changes. The server keeps sending all kinds of inconsequential block-set packets quite often. < 1294665898 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like setting empty blocks to air, or grass to grass, or leaves to leaves. < 1294665970 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was it so that the topo-map also got corrupted? < 1294665994 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes < 1294666025 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, haven't seen mode 2 or 3 get corrupted though < 1294666055 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so maybe it is not a bug in how you handle the messages but in how you update the surface map? < 1294666063 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, probably. < 1294666092 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, tried valgrind? Otherwise I'll do it if you tell me how to make a debug build of mcmap < 1294666170 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least a short "okay, it got corrupted" test got no valgrind errors. But of course most of the memory around there is allocated as largeish blocks, and valgrind can't really notice if I just mess up indexing or something. < 1294666211 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, valgrind in memcheck mode won't tell if you enter another valid object < 1294666214 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so hm < 1294666228 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, exp-ptrcheck or ptrcheck-exp or whatever it was called < 1294666232 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the --tool parameter < 1294666241 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: probably even slower than the default memcheck) < 1294666250 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that tracks pointers jumping between objects < 1294666256 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll check at home. < 1294666315 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The current surface-map update logic is approximately: if placing a block with type T and Y >= current topmost non-air block: set surface on that point to T and height to Y. Then if T was air: rescan from Y down to 0 to find the highest non-air block. Set surface map to that block, and height to that height. < 1294666339 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also something I noticed is that the orientation of the player marker seems to lag behind when you rotate the view while in a boat < 1294666373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mhm, yes, I don't think I track the "entity-look" packets at all. < 1294666375 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1294666389 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well it does change, it just lags behind a bit < 1294666499 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm what happens if you try to teleport with mcmap while in a boat? < 1294666535 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know how it sends looking-around while in a vehicle. For location once you've "attached" to a vehicle, it will send only (0, -999, 0) or some-such as the location; for the view direction it might be more complicated, since there's both the current boat-direction as well as the player view direction. < 1294666538 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea. < 1294666552 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps an "illegal move" and a blocked teleport. < 1294666560 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, -999, how strange < 1294666568 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it was some sort of a nonsense value. < 1294666613 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that kind of "explains" that "placing block in the 999 bug z plane"-bug I read about recently though. For some very weird values of explains. < 1294666645 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what sort of packets the client sends when you're "driving" a boat, either. < 1294666663 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1294666695 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The usual entity-move packets are all marked as server-to-client only. < 1294666743 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, in mcmap or in protocol docs? < 1294666756 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In protocol docs, though of course those aren't any more official. < 1294666915 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1294667465 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah exploring with mcmap made the system swap trash now < 1294667502 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how did you say you disabled this at compile time? < 1294667521 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comment out the FEAT_IFORGETTHENAME #define in config.h and rebuild. < 1294667527 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1294667533 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FULLCHUNK or some-such. < 1294667563 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah there is only one there, not too hard to find < 1294667589 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The forthcoming "unload far-away chunks on disk" code will probably make it easy to also provide a (runtime) mode where it just forgets faraway blocks. They're always re-sent by the server for the client, anyway. < 1294667660 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though the hash-map based chunk storage isn't the best one for a "which chunks are outside this box?" query.) < 1294668377 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm is it just me or were the pre-halloween seas much larger than the ones you get nowdays? < 1294668402 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't really looked at any large-scale maps. < 1294668531 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, there's a (custom) minecraft terrain generator that comes with a FUSE filesystem module; you can mount it into a "world" directory and that way get on-the-fly terrain generator inside an unmodified client. That's quite a clever (if weird) trick. < 1294668558 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only weird, crazy < 1294668562 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, link to this? < 1294668571 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nuke24.net/projects/TMCMG/ < 1294668578 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about the quality of terrain it generates. < 1294668646 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1294668753 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well the current terrain generator in beta have some issues with desert biome edges. Looks like blocks that contain both sand and grass ends up with wrong rotation. So that the edge blocks are rotated away from the desert. < 1294668760 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it looks like that on a map < 1294668780 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I've wondered about the edges on the map too. < 1294669149 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that's brilliant... < 1294669302 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that site needs example screenshots from minecraft of the results of using it < 1294669328 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, it gets off due to being AWESOME < 1294669340 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hard to tell how awesome it is < 1294669391 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, uh, fuse is on the todo list? https://github.com/TOGoS/TMCMG/raw/master/doc/todo.txt < 1294669405 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also exists already. < 1294669412 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1294669421 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/TOGoS/TMCMG/raw/master/README "Using with GeneratorFS" < 1294669478 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: coordinates by any chance? < 1294669518 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: No coordinates for you! (That is, I don't really know what's causing the crash in the Windows version.) < 1294669534 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does it fail for you, anyway? For me it just seems to go into a 100% CPU-wastage loop and hang up. < 1294669547 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, didn't it work when you used it last time and other people spoke? < 1294669816 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm going to try that terrain gen thing. < 1294669914 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great, fuse requires root access. < 1294669980 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: timeout in mc, and the program just disconnects and crashes after a while afaiu < 1294669981 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*afair < 1294669987 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i could check at some point < 1294669996 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it worked for a while < 1294670012 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the bug can't just be that when people talk, it crashes < 1294670019 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kinda important, maybe, fizzie < 1294670110 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's a bit of a show-stopper, admittedly. < 1294670111 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" http://www.nuke24.net/projects/TMCMG/" " I don't know about the quality of terrain it generates." <<< it's a programming language, it generates what you ask < 1294670117 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but basically what you can do is < 1294670150 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have the perlin function, which is a pseudorandom function that gives you random constant size bumps, you can scale it, and gets big bumps and small bumps on top. < 1294670187 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and things like cutoffs for different kinds of terrains are easy to do as well, although it's one of the horriblest languages out there < 1294670193 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :made a couple levels for friends < 1294670210 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or one level for them, and a couple for myself, rather < 1294670227 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i meant, knowing that may be important < 1294670283 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the most retarded thing is that you actually have the 3d perlin function < 1294670295 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Great, fuse requires root access. <-- hm... so it does. But I thought only for the initial mount, and for the unmount. Not in between? < 1294670306 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't actually say things like insert the 3d coordinates to perlin, and if it goes over cutoff, put diamond here < 1294670318 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to reimplement the whole 3d perlin idea by using 2d perlin < 1294670324 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, i couldn't find a better way < 1294670356 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Right, right. I'd try a debugger to see where it's hung up, but I don't quite know how to debug a wine-running executable. I'm sure it's somehow possible, though. < 1294670418 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the "fractal" command is quite a letdown in tmcmg < 1294670423 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, testing it... < 1294670447 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just means you constant amount of levels of smaller and smaller grained bumps < 1294670459 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you add together a constant < 1294670519 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless i misunderstood it, i never actually tried it because if i understood it correctly, it's pretty useless < 1294670571 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, how comes you know so much about TMCMG? < 1294670667 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know pretty much everything about it because i read the documentation so i could make a level with it < 1294670676 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the docs are like one page < 1294670691 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, did it work well in the end? < 1294670692 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can call the perlin function, and do basic math on the result. < 1294670719 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i just wanted a world mostly full of sand, so yeah i succeeded well enough :D < 1294670783 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were also some oases < 1294670804 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i made a cutoff that added water and dirt < 1294670813 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the perlin function idea makes randomness very nice to handle < 1294670868 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because like water and dirt can just look for the same cutoff, and add themselves on different levels below sand level < 1294670886 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm nice worldedit has a //smooth command that you can use to patch up heightmap edges in the scenery. Mostly for the halloween ones. It seems to work decently when the difference in height is 0-20, but doesn't work very well if more than that. At least not when you only select like 10 blocks on each side of the border. (Tried it on artificial border since my local testing server doesn't have any pre-hal < 1294670886 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loween scenery) < 1294670904 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, nice < 1294670950 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, so for a given x,y,z perlin always return the same value? < 1294670954 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1294670973 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1294670980 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, any way to add a fourth parameter if you want to randomise different things for the same coord. < 1294670989 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just add 10000 to the y coordinate to get another perlin function < 1294671012 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, hm < 1294671018 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you'll actually be using the 3d perlin function to get *heights* of ground at different x, z spots < 1294671033 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I see < 1294671057 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if that y+100000 thing was the author's idea originally, to me it seems kinda retarded that you can't just say "put sand where 3d perlin spikes" < 1294671064 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but instead < 1294671078 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to have put sand from 1 to perlin height < 1294671090 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, in certain cases the former is much better < 1294671094 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in the case of resources < 1294671098 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1294671103 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : so what PRNG algorithm is this perlin? < 1294671115 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a well-known algorithm i first heard about when i read that documentation < 1294671122 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, :D < 1294671125 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, he doesn't say anything about the grain size < 1294671148 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a well-known algorithm I first heard about when I was looking at landscape generation ages ago. < 1294671155 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to trial and error that out, unless you know what the standard size is in perlin implementations (he surely didn't write the prng himself) < 1294671159 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because he sucks) < 1294671166 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it does appear in things like procedural textures quite often. < 1294671182 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know how it works? < 1294671199 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take a random map of 0 and 1, and add smooth transitions? :P < 1294671202 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know what would make SSP so much cooler? < 1294671204 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, you could check the source to find out what the grain size is < 1294671215 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The implementation [of simplex noise] used by TMCMG seems to have lower average amplitude than perlin noise, so you may want to multiply the output more to get a similar effect." -- yes, I don't think either one was written by the author here. < 1294671216 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it added the wreckage of a spaceship to your spawn point. < 1294671231 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, being less laggy is like 1000 times more important atm < 1294671234 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's not necessarily easy to see there < 1294671242 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, true < 1294671244 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, it's not that laggy for me. < 1294671252 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, better cpu maybe < 1294671259 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: was that from the tbtmbmtmbtmb page? < 1294671284 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: From it's readme, yes. < 1294671314 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, SMP works fine but in SSP it stutters a lot. And no it isn't low FPS as such, but seemingly random delays a few times every second. Between the FPS seems decent < 1294671348 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that comment is a bit ridiculous, since you'll have to adjust your intuition on what perlin looks like to fit the mc scale anyway < 1294671374 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless he means the hills are actually different shape or something, in which case multiplication doesn't help < 1294671382 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm < 1294671447 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is for simplex. He is just comparing perlin to simplex? < 1294671468 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. But it sounds like both implementations come mostly-cribbed from some external source. < 1294671475 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1294671501 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-9-252.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1294671503 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can tell by the programming language that he either doesn't have a very firm grip on what he's doing, or the project was a really really quick hack < 1294671509 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea of that program is good but the implementation seems poor. I guess it is a perfect fit for minecraft then < 1294671516 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1294671559 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language is just silly, or, well, tell me if you like the way argument passing is handled, in my opinion it was really annoying to use < 1294671620 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia on perlin noise: "The function has a pseudo-random appearance, yet all of its visual details are the same size (see image)." <-- the image doesn't explain what it means here. Exactly what is a "visual detail" and how do you measure it. < 1294671648 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the image < 1294671663 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt there's a definition that makes it more clear than that < 1294671679 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, do you mean the width of the white parts such? < 1294671698 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1294671700 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is approximately the same it seems. < 1294671705 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1294671721 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not white noise, it's a desert < 1294671727 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1294671743 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, uh does "desert" have some technical meaning in this context? < 1294671750 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1294671753 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1294671756 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a desert. not really the best possible way to put it. < 1294671764 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1294671778 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deserts have waves, not bumps < 1294671847 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1294671901 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, deserts can have that but there are different types. Stony ones for example. < 1294672061 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, surely it's clear what visual details means here. < 1294672074 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but is it rigorous? < 1294672094 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, you could formulate it in terms of self-similarity. < 1294672122 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm. That might work yes < 1294672384 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would formulate it based on some sort of second order differential, how fast, on average, the slope is changing < 1294672395 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno what you mean by self-similarity < 1294672415 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1294672463 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slope change + average i suppose < 1294672486 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, dunno if that works, it's a characteristic but maybe not really sufficient < 1294672527 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I assumed he meant to define it by the fractal nature of it somehow- < 1294672552 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has fractal nature? < 1294672567 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, hm maybe not. < 1294672571 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your way sounds better < 1294672573 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that exactly what it doesn't have < 1294672582 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1294672594 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if you look at it from further away, it will look *different*, bumps are smaller < 1294672605 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good point < 1294672626 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, so define it by the lack of fractal nature? < 1294672631 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1294672633 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe, maybe < 1294672698 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it has fractal nature? ← that's my point, there's no fractalness. < 1294672700 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just "fractal nature" and fractals in general make my "meaningless bullshit" sensor tick, sort like turing completeness, heard one meaning less too many < 1294672706 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ah < 1294672709 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what Vorpal said < 1294672717 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't make it look the same by scaling up or down. < 1294672767 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but since it is PRNG won't it eventually cycle? Given a large enough region. < 1294672792 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first of all a prng doesn't have to cycle even if it's just a function from integers < 1294672801 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second of all, no < 1294672829 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1294672845 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not in a sense that would mean grains appear again < 1294672855 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say when you zoom < 1294672872 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1294672907 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, however I guess it might when expanding to a larger region being generated at the same zoom level. < 1294672910 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :secret maryo is fun < 1294672926 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is true is that if you hold a constant size slot of bits B, compute some random value, and recompute the contents of B to get a new seed, then certainly the random values will cycle < 1294672941 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: might, doesn't have to tho < 1294672980 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohm < 1294672982 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm* < 1294672984 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could increase state as it moves further, and do more complicated computation < 1294672984 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1294673012 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloklopol < 1294673022 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if nth bit can be computed in O(1) after computing the n-1 first ones, then it'll eventually cycle, i think < 1294673034 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not sure if that's amortized < 1294673048 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really i'm so tired i might be spouting complete bullshit here. < 1294673055 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater-: helloes. < 1294673070 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not sure that's true if the O(1) is amortized < 1294673075 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes < 1294673086 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not even true if it's not amortized, actually < 1294673095 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance you could have it print 01001000100001 etc < 1294673101 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://www.secretmaryo.org/index.php?page=game_downloads < 1294673102 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a similar sequence < 1294673105 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by moving a marker < 1294673123 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that constant sequence is not very random, but at least my theorem is not true < 1294673142 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah, spouting bullshit here, you may just as well ignore me till tomorrow < 1294673157 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1294673159 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the usual situation :D < 1294673168 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1294673175 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm rarely wrong < 1294673191 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i mean the "ignore until tomorrow" < 1294673195 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j/k :3 < 1294673200 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater-: what's that? < 1294673207 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did you give it to *me*? < 1294673215 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you were in the blasting radius < 1294673220 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater-: i was just kidding too, i'm very often wrong < 1294673229 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: not true! you're always right. < 1294673239 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you man < 1294673245 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's hurtful < 1294673277 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah where's oerjan < 1294673281 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna talk to him about semigrops < 1294673283 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*groups < 1294673295 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, i told him i would, so he's probably in a bunker somewhere < 1294673469 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is there to discuss about semigroups? < 1294673488 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have all of the things to say about semigroups not already been said? < 1294673519 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1294673523 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly! < 1294673597 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc at least one of the branches of the current theory is about a very special case of inverse semigroups, which are exactly semigroups of partial injective functions < 1294673604 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*exactly the < 1294673648 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should know what that special case was < 1294673663 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway it's a reeeeeally beautiful theory < 1294673670 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inverse semigroups are much sexier than groups < 1294673688 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they are a superset of groups tho) < 1294673709 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, out of curiosity, what exactly is a semigroup? < 1294673720 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a set and an operation < 1294673724 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set is closed under the op < 1294673724 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1294673728 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :associativity < 1294673731 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is present < 1294673737 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, isn't that what a group is? (set + operation)? < 1294673750 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :associativity means (a*b)*c = a*(b*c) < 1294673761 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what associativity is in general yes. < 1294673790 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: groups always have inverses, and they always have an identity element < 1294673797 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1294673806 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a semigroup with identity but not necessarily inverses is a monoid < 1294673837 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, "not necessarily" as in "some members of the set might have inverses"? < 1294673860 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1294673864 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not forbidden < 1294673873 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus groups are monoids < 1294673878 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and monoids are semigroups < 1294673882 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1294673916 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get "semigroup". < 1294673926 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more of a third of a group, not half a group. < 1294673928 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a name < 1294673937 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An INACCURATE one! < 1294673938 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1294673962 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a weird name, i didn't like it at first, but now it's just a name to me < 1294674024 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: regular semigroups on the other hand have inverses (with a different definition), but not necessarily an identity element < 1294674030 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, would the set of all nxn matrices for a given constant n and the operation matrix multiplication be a semi-group? < 1294674041 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in fact if they have an identity, they are just groups) < 1294674047 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or monid even I guess) < 1294674055 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1294674061 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :monoid, but not a group < 1294674071 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not a group? < 1294674074 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, oh, so it's two thirds of a group. < 1294674077 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(homework) < 1294674078 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well obviously not a group indeed. Not all elements have inverses < 1294674085 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, *that* bit is trivial :P < 1294674088 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no monoid is 2/3 isn't it? < 1294674114 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what is not trivial then? the fact that matrix multiplication is associative is pretty obvious if you think of them as linear transformations < 1294674116 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, *regular* semigroups. < 1294674129 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, how do you have inverses without an identity? < 1294674130 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sorry < 1294674137 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well, I was just wondering if there was some other snag. < 1294674142 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: x's inverse is a y such that x = xyx < 1294674184 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it's not strictly obvious that it's associative even if you think about them as linear transformations, but anyhow everyone knows that! < 1294674200 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, but not such that forall y, x*x^-1*y = y? < 1294674200 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, hm x = xyx doesn't imply y = yxy in such a case I guess? < 1294674219 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: inverse semigroups are when you assume a *unique* x^-1 such that x and x^-1 are each other's inverses < 1294674255 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it doesn't, necessarily, although you can prove that in a regular semigroup, all elements x have a pair y such that x = xyx, y = yxy < 1294674291 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what property guarantees that? < 1294674295 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, if x = xyx, then x = xyx = x.yxy.x, and yxy.x.yxy = yxy, so yxy is such a pair < 1294674304 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: my proof guarantees it < 1294674322 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can clarify if you're not used to following that kind of stuff < 1294674338 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe that's easy to read < 1294674339 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what is the . there in that notation < 1294674345 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh just an explicit * < 1294674349 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* was harder to write < 1294674350 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1294674350 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1294674351 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1294674363 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1294674386 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, you need to drop associativity for that to no longer work I guess < 1294674408 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah associativity is very crucial, because it allows rewriting strings context-freely < 1294674411 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1294674417 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean context sensitively < 1294674420 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the sense that < 1294674436 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can rewrite something, and then use parts of it in another rewrite < 1294674437 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1294674478 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like? < 1294674498 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in xyx = x.yxy.x, i rewrite the x.y.x to x.y.xyx, but then i split the result in a different way to obtain x.yxy.x < 1294674499 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1294674504 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well yes < 1294674514 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I never disputed this < 1294674521 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a very good example because i don't actually use that new decomposition for anything, but that was all i had < 1294674537 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: just trying to make it clear what i mean < 1294674554 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because IT WAS SOOOOOOO COMPLEX < 1294674582 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, not really no < 1294674592 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, it was clear once you said what you meant by . :P < 1294674633 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, when i said why associativity is crucial, i wasn't talking about that example, but proving things for semigroups in general < 1294674649 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, oh okay < 1294674722 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a semilattice is a semigroup such that all its elements are idempotent x^2 = x, and its elements commute, xy = yx; let S be an inverse semigroup, let us prove its idempotents form a semilattice under the semigroup operation < 1294674729 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let e, f be two idempotents < 1294674737 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider the unique inverse x of ef < 1294674752 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1294674763 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ef = efxef = ef.xe.ef = ef.fe.ef by the fact e and f are idempotent < 1294674764 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, err can't say I'm very familiar with lattices < 1294674777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:00:25 according to the guy who deduced how clue works from ski < 1294674777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1294674790 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also xe.ef.xe = x.ef.xe = xe because x is the inverse of ef < 1294674810 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :similarly, fx.ef.fx = fx < 1294674821 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1294674840 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, xx = xe.fx = x because x is ef's inverse => x is an idempotent < 1294674859 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if x is an idempotent, then x^3 = x, and so x is its own unique inverse, which must mean x = ef! < 1294674870 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, the product of two idempotents is idempotent < 1294674876 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, let's prove commutativity < 1294674900 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, so what is a lattice then? (And isn't that word used for different things in different areas of mathematics) < 1294674905 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ef and fe are idempotent by what we already proved, ef.fe.ef = ef.ef = ef by the fact e and f are idempotents < 1294674911 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :similarly, fe.ef.fe = fe < 1294674918 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ef and fe are each other's unique inverses < 1294674925 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but again, they are also their own inverses => ef = fe < 1294674927 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w.e.d. < 1294674928 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*q.e.d. < 1294674932 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1294674948 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not completely, he knew the basic idea. < 1294674952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: wtf happened to your throne room < 1294674960 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, something happened to it? < 1294674966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blown up. < 1294674966 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you don't have to be familiar with lattices, since i was talking about semilattices :D < 1294674971 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i defined them! < 1294675012 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lattice is something more complicated, if you remember what boolean algebras were (the abstract axiom-based definition), lattices are boolean algebras with a few less axioms. < 1294675017 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'll check soon. Minecraft.net seems down. But then I suspect PH. He talked about doing it in a local copy saved with mcmap (it has that feature now) but if he did it on the server then fuck him. < 1294675038 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, there isn't necessarily a "0" or "1", and there is no complementation < 1294675047 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just union and intersection < 1294675088 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that have to satisfy a series of axioms, they don't actually have to be unions or intersections on a set though, just arbitrary binary ops that satisfy the axioms) < 1294675090 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow the lag < 1294675123 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not blown up? < 1294675134 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhow that's one of my favorite proofs, why aren't you more excited :( < 1294675159 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to wait for oerjan < 1294675162 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, yeah, I was just playing a trick on him. < 1294675162 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, hm < 1294675170 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh elliott? < 1294675171 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hah < 1294675178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Actually I knew. < 1294675183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wanted to see if you'd freak < 1294675185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*freak. < 1294675213 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hardly more than you would if told that the cube was blown up (once done). You would probably also go online to check :P < 1294675270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, I'd go online and immediately destroy Mount Vorpal, most likely. < 1294675276 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also everyone knows elliott is a crazy mythomaniac < 1294675277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTE TO PEOPLE WHO WANT TO BLOW UP THE CUBE: probably a bad idea. < 1294675301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so anyway i designed cled in the logs < 1294675307 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why on earth. It could have been nailor. < 1294675317 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too UNINTERESTING; didn't read < 1294675332 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and I wouldn't blow it up. I'm not like you. < 1294675350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's more like an incentive for everyone because they'd have to listen to you scream if it happened < 1294675353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So how fucked up is the lighting? < 1294675353 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nailor's door was locked :( < 1294675363 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not very, < 1294675368 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not at all, in fact. < 1294675381 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would it be? < 1294675402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie said they were. < 1294675406 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: No, I'd go online and immediately destroy Mount Vorpal, most likely. ← did that on the local copy. < 1294675420 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ended up corrupting the world file due to Notch-quality engineering. < 1294675422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1294675458 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also blew up the wooden house. < 1294675466 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, the charge in that was what broke it. < 1294675490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:56:45 I'll probably make it also load an existing dump and in general auto-persist the world on disk at some point, in order to reduce memory use for long-running game sessions where you wander around far and wide. < 1294675492 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1294675500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Do it the sane way; just use mmap and let the OS handle it for you. < 1294675522 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you realise that isn't sane when there is a shitload of small files? < 1294675531 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to a number of large ones < 1294675542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Umm, he should store them in one file and then convert for //save, duh. < 1294675548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No reason to be as stupidly-architectured as the client. < 1294675551 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, many files are smaller than the page size. Besides they are gzip compressed. < 1294675561 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And mcmap's internal data structures are different to MC's internal ones. < 1294675567 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, still, do you suggest storing them uncompressed? < 1294675571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1294675575 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that would be huge. < 1294675582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just for what you've seen in the current session... < 1294675602 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no? < 1294675608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is. < 1294675609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See logs. < 1294675623 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it sounds like it would be able to load dumps when starting? < 1294675636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and? < 1294675647 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning they would be between sessions < 1294675715 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, to get something like Slate working on Windows, would I compile using Cygwin, or MinGW? < 1294675722 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION barely knows the difference < 1294675738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: mcmap -c on OS X gives me unloaded chunks all around my current location. < 1294675742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: try mingw first. < 1294675748 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, ty < 1294675756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: or just use linux, it's unlikely to work on win. < 1294675825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Dude, is it totally broken for everyone else? < 1294676080 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1294676171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: to build debug mcmap, make debug=1 < 1294676191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1294676194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make clean; make debug=1 < 1294676228 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1294676236 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1294676242 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I guess the symlink at ./mcmap will no longer work? < 1294676259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse to answer that yourself since you can figure it out in 3 seconds. < 1294676267 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you know Mercury? < 1294676268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, separating normal and debug builds is a good thing. < 1294676271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, you don't need to clean. < 1294676275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make debug=1 will put it in _debug. < 1294676281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can keep your current build. < 1294676281 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes it is a good idea to separate them < 1294676748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so oklopol < 1294676750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cled < 1294676751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best or best < 1294677176 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1294678461 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: if you still come back, wanna tell me if i'm on your map? < 1294678490 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't go *that* far, and i was thinking settling down < 1294678521 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, where'd you go? < 1294678533 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm blowing up the spawn area right now.) < 1294678540 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to a random place < 1294678558 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're blowing it up locally or what? < 1294678563 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1294678591 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just checking, not a good time building a home if you're abandoning the world or something < 1294678638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: cleddy cled < 1294678644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also oklopol building a house? weird < 1294678654 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"house" < 1294678720 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001f5b00390f-CM001e6b2335dc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1294678811 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1294678813 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so, i heard i was trying to disprove clue works at all < 1294678834 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott told you or what? < 1294678847 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i sometimes do things without knowing. i'm sorry if you felt bad about my sleepwalking argumentative self < 1294678853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ? < 1294678855 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, apparently i have < 1294678873 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't feel bad about anything < 1294678876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION compiles a few clue programs < 1294678884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit, you're right, it actually just spews out python errors :D < 1294678894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ python repl.py qsort.clue < 1294678897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god what is this < 1294678898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ < 1294678925 0 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1294679305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: omg cled is actually working :D < 1294679344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://i.imgur.com/M27fK.png < 1294679352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: this is a graphical representation of {. 0 1 -> 1 . 0 5 -> 5 } < 1294679363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can even move about and ascend and descend the tree and everything < 1294679377 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No more comma? < 1294679385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: that was removed a while ago < 1294679390 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh < 1294679399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i can press cmd+s and it prints the tree < 1294679402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nicely-formatted and all < 1294679431 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get why i had the comma, i never have those in my languages < 1294679479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: dude http://i.imgur.com/M27fK.png < 1294679484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOOK AT THE BEAUTIFUL UGLY? < 1294679490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like aardappel < 1294679491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except clue < 1294679530 0 :cheater00!~cheater@e181140250.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1294679560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: in fact it's very similar to aardappel, since in aardappel you name func params with example values :P < 1294679563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clue just does it PROPERLY < 1294679633 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1294679722 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blinks < 1294679742 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw ---> as a solid arrow and was wondering how it would be typed in a real program < 1294679800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: With cled, -> IS a solid arrow! http://i.imgur.com/M27fK.png < 1294679826 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is talking about Mercury < 1294679838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Inferior to cled. < 1294679924 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, was just thinking that < 1294679940 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, still want me to help you on the server? < 1294679953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: was just thinking what < 1294679968 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aardappel has a property clue has, and you're making an editor that looks like a non-ugly version of the aardappel editod < 1294679971 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*editor < 1294679997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i wouldn't exactly call that screenshot non-ugly, but at least it doesn't have stupid pictures everywhere :) < 1294680002 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i have forgotten all context < 1294680003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can't really edit aardappel with the keyboard < 1294680004 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1294680006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas all of this is keyboard-based < 1294680016 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, you were lost? < 1294680017 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :want you to help me, that i do yes, if you log in, check if i'm on your map < 1294680021 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no not really < 1294680026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: in fact I think that editing with this will take quite a bit fewer keystrokes than editing wtih a file < 1294680100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i gotta say something though < 1294680109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: why can't you have zero-arg functions in clue < 1294680110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's totally nonelegant < 1294680119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a parser bug? < 1294680131 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\" (had the database < 1294680131 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :community known about maybe types they never would have invented NULLs < 1294680131 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wrecked the relational model. . . " < 1294680133 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1294680139 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just didn't want zero arg functions < 1294680140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: why not < 1294680156 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh: GLib-GIO:ERROR:gsocket.c:2347:remove_condition_watch: assertion failed: (g_list_find (socket->priv->requested_conditions, condition) != NULL) < 1294680163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you can't define _ in clue, that's not very elegant :) < 1294680165 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they are completely useless, and {. -> 3 } looks wrong < 1294680178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so useless that you defined one as a primitive < 1294680186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1294680196 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that used to be useful < 1294680200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ok well... why can't you return multiple values < 1294680205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be more symmetrical < 1294680205 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it will be again, when i add higher-order funcs < 1294680215 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should definitely be able to return multiple values < 1294680220 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1294680228 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's even more important than multiparam < 1294680232 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since < 1294680240 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiparam is more dangerous < 1294680243 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for explosions < 1294680249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what would f(multiple value returner(x)) do < 1294680265 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in clue, you don't have to think about that < 1294680278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well right < 1294680280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just asking < 1294680288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably None or whatever < 1294680291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the code gen would arrange for like < 1294680297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple value returner@2(x) < 1294680298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get the third arg < 1294680300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(@0 for first) < 1294680313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: now what i'd really like to be possible < 1294680316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is {. -> } < 1294680320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zero inputs, zero outputs < 1294680323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you wanna know why? < 1294680327 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1294680331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: as it is, currently, in cled, the program is not always a valid ast < 1294680342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: when you create an example, it creates two Hole objects (or, well, it will when i code that) < 1294680345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one arg, one result < 1294680348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these can't be serialised to value clue < 1294680354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just so that you can enter them, specify what type they are < 1294680356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then specify a value < 1294680365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you could have N inputs and N outputs, it could just have two empty input and output lists < 1294680369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'd add them at your leisure < 1294680379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the tree would always be a valid clue tree < 1294680443 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1294680467 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zero inputs and outputs would work just fine if "side-effects" are ever added, which i might just do at some point, not the binary output stream approach tho < 1294680486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ew no side-effects, that's so lame < 1294680495 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1294680496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but uh, basically a function with zero outputs would never be called I think < 1294680498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as part of a generated program < 1294680510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can only call a function as (func@(result number)(params)) < 1294680514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since result numbers start at 0 < 1294680518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no valid number for a zero-output function < 1294680523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the point is, it'd make cled more elegant :) < 1294680532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since having the tree in an invalid state is just lame < 1294680542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could have you specify the inputs and outputs before it let you do anything else, but that feels annoyingly restricting < 1294680544 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be called, it's output just wouldn't be numbered < 1294680545 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1294680553 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the current implementation, no, it wouldn't be called < 1294680559 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what you meant < 1294680568 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ignore what i said < 1294680602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well the way i see it is the simplest way to impl it would be to turn every func call from < 1294680605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :name (params) < 1294680605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :into < 1294680612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :name @resultnum (params) < 1294680617 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ok, if you didn't feel bad, but elliott has given me shit already, maybe i should start talking shit about clue, just to cash in my debt ;p < 1294680624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way you can't have f(multiple args(foo)), it's always f(multiple args@0(foo)) or @1 etc < 1294680627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*etc. < 1294680630 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater00: works for me < 1294680631 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1294680636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so since 0 is first result, for a zero input function, there is no valid @ number < 1294680640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'd never be calle < 1294680641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1294680648 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: clue is php < 1294680672 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: worse, clue is c++ < 1294680679 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that's enough kthx < 1294680687 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOEUGH < 1294680690 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENOUGHEONUGENOUGHEOUGNEOUGHE < 1294680700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what < 1294680700 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAN'T TAKEA IRTSARJTIJIT < 1294680702 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1294680709 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1294680711 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1294680716 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1294680717 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1294680721 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1294680722 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excuse me? < 1294680729 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i beg your pardon? < 1294680731 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry? < 1294680733 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :que? < 1294680736 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nani? < 1294680740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fag < 1294680748 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott broke it < 1294680753 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's such a spoil sport < 1294680755 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION works on a new language < 1294680759 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i thought that was a good ending < 1294680769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so uh got any suggestions for cled that don't involve holes < 1294680770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1294680774 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nope! < 1294680776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be that if you + to add an example < 1294680779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to say e.g. < 1294680781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :li < 1294680783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning "list to integer" < 1294680783 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just play minecraft and be a happy! < 1294680784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but eugh < 1294680787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so lame < 1294680796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so um is clue abandoned :p < 1294680816 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl is a general purpose language. It's also known to be the only widespread use obfuscated language. < 1294680818 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lulz < 1294680826 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so do u vant to normalize clue? < 1294680846 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001f5b00390f-CM001e6b2335dc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1294680848 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i think clue could actually lift off really well, there's nothing else that does what clue does < 1294680850 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no < 1294680859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's funny, this channel has only been witness to "perl is esolang" sentiments about 1000000 times :D < 1294680863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yay < 1294680864 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater00: it could totally become mainstream! < 1294680880 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with the current extreme TDD approach and python lifting off it could make me famous < 1294680880 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm not working on it today, no < 1294680883 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you too maybe < 1294680884 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly this week < 1294680889 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is on the wiki < 1294680892 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the idea is to come up with a spec < 1294680895 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense < 1294680903 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gnar, I don't get why the Win build fails; it is as if it just decides to close the connection. < 1294680906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think some random anon added it and nobody bothered to remove it. < 1294680917 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it should be kept - tis true < 1294680922 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I don't suppose you see any sort of "GLib-GIO" error message on your end when it goes? < 1294680925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'tisn't, not really < 1294680934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :odd, sure < 1294680947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but esoteric shouldn't be applied to every language just because people think it's weird. < 1294680948 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: doesn't ring a bell < 1294680965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol @ cheater00 thinking clue is practical < 1294680967 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get one, but I don't know, it might be just a side-effect of the connection disconnectering. < 1294680979 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey clue is TOTALLY practical < 1294680987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally < 1294681019 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1294681029 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1294681033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you have to swear now to always use cled for everything < 1294681034 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i believe it could become a practical language < 1294681039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater00: it really couldn't :) < 1294681040 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and/or framework for existing languages < 1294681047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like it could, before you figure out how it actually works. < 1294681049 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it could as well < 1294681063 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1294681063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh oklopol, you so zany < 1294681066 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: let's ignore the torl < 1294681067 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for certain values of practical < 1294681072 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what should I call my random chance language ? < 1294681079 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i feel it's a fairly new paradigm < 1294681092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the torl"? < 1294681100 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i think in fact what you got right now - the language in itself - is just very basic < 1294681108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's a new paradigm because it's amazingly stupid ... in that puttign it into practice is nearly impossible < 1294681109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*putting it < 1294681120 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's how retarded people pronounce troll. < 1294681137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fitting < 1294681154 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i think you could have multiple very languages very distant from eachother, derived from clue, just using different inference methods < 1294681176 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: because those inference methods are actually what defines clue < 1294681188 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hence i was talking about defining your own inference methods < 1294681236 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i think clue is a bit near to the automatic prover territory, isn't it? < 1294681286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater00: not raelly. < 1294681287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*really. < 1294681298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater00: also example-based programming isn't really a HUGE NEW IDEA < 1294681305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by saying < 1294681310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"omg different inference engines" < 1294681311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're saying < 1294681319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"chuck out all of the current work on clue and keep the obvious core idea!" < 1294681324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is stupid because the work was the hard part < 1294681357 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shush < 1294681370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater00: um what i'm saying is perfectly true < 1294681378 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. shush. < 1294681434 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :business in my pants < 1294681447 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that's where the business always is. < 1294681450 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's THAT for a slogan? < 1294681491 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm gonna go make some breakfast and watch the ballet dancers next door < 1294681540 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take pix k < 1294681544 0 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1294681604 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1294681943 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's illegal < 1294681967 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take mental pix < 1294682006 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1294682018 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with my mental-undress-ray < 1294682150 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, don't encourage him. < 1294682168 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do what, send me pictures of ballet dancers? < 1294682176 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, to be cheater. < 1294682198 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignore him and we'll all be much happier. < 1294682205 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if someone was encouraging me to be oklopol (elliott), i would be really pleased < 1294682225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: be oklopol < 1294682237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: be oklopol < 1294682239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater00: be oklopol < 1294682241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: be oklopol < 1294682243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: be oklopol < 1294682246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clog: be oklopol < 1294682251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: be oklopol < 1294682254 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, don't tell fizzie to be oklopol! < 1294682268 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If fizzie is oklopol, who will be fizzie? < 1294682271 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, be fizzie. < 1294682284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1294682287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't need fizzie < 1294682289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just need more oklopol < 1294682298 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1294682308 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there will be wars over interior decoration! < 1294682320 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Processing... ... ... Error 49123: Mutant produced. Details: Now Vorpol. < 1294682336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that like Vorpal but intelligent? < 1294682347 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't want to be someone who has "toilet" as part of their name < 1294682348 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is like the most extreme sides of me and oklopol < 1294682374 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1294682379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So incredibly stupid and irritating and awesome and intelligent? < 1294682381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: What have you done < 1294682392 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it was you who did it < 1294682408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame Vorpal < 1294682412 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha vorpol luuuuv it < 1294682414 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I blame you < 1294682461 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food < 1294682486 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&lang=de&searchLoc=0&cmpType=relaxed§Hdr=on&spellToler=&search=klo < 1294682568 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that word, yes < 1294682587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's funny because < 1294682590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol has "lo" in his name < 1294682593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so obviously he's low < 1294682594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BROW < 1294682595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :low-brow < 1294682599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklowbrowpol < 1294682612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and obviously i'm input and output < 1294682613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ell IO tt < 1294682623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal is clearly everyone's PAL < 1294682625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also into VORe < 1294682630 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really i could just go back to playing locally, you guys are never here < 1294682634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow this is like reading tea leaves but better < 1294682641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i was on but then you DIDN'T LET ME VISIT < 1294682650 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in fact I'm into VORs since I'm into flightsims :P < 1294682652 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well obviously i don't want to see any of you < 1294682654 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and i eat ch's? < 1294682672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater00: no, you're che guevara < 1294682673 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's a type of omnidirectional navigational beacon. < 1294682674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1294682681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes. right. sure. < 1294682681 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1294682698 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about MEEEEEE < 1294682709 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and you move impure IO (ellIOtt) < 1294682722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:03 elliott: and obviously i'm input and output < 1294682722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:03 elliott: ell IO tt < 1294682728 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh missed that < 1294682729 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you're j. edgar hoover < 1294682730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You're an ant named Tom. < 1294682746 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which is over something < 1294682763 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i think you're offtopic < 1294682768 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elli OT t < 1294682773 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1294682782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater00: I think you're gender-neutral < 1294682783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ch E ater00 < 1294682784 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains the channel < 1294682785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a fan of Spivak < 1294682794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuckin science < 1294682796 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric OT there < 1294682799 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so off topic < 1294682802 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it all fits < 1294682807 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you drive an audi TT < 1294682811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E's OT, Eric. < 1294682812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :translation < 1294682816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He or she is off-topic, Eric. < 1294682821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only remaining question is < 1294682822 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater00, no, he is a news agency < 1294682824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO IS ERIC < 1294682830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater00, (TT is a Swedish news agency) < 1294682835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excuse me < 1294682838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just decoded #esoteric < 1294682840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we science please < 1294682848 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I said it was OT in it yes < 1294682848 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1294682852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1294682855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i decoded the whole thing < 1294682859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric -> E's OT, Eric. < 1294682859 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's about Eric the Esot < 1294682863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He or she's off-topic, Eric. < 1294682867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this fits #esoteric < 1294682868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1294682869 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel is about Eric the Esot < 1294682870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so who's Eric???? < 1294682872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe oklopol is Eric < 1294682874 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the esot. < 1294682920 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what was your name again? < 1294682933 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :klo < 1294682936 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :toilet. < 1294682939 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's also an OPO < 1294682948 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes no sense because there's nothing named OPO < 1294682989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i broke it :DDDD < 1294683005 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you broke clue? < 1294683064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1294683064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cled < 1294683282 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1294683317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1294683482 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1294683525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT IST BROKE < 1294683548 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : #esoteric -> E's OT, Eric. <-- hm < 1294683550 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1294683553 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drakhan's heart. < 1294683562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who. < 1294683567 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : WHAT IST BROKE <-- your connection was broke before < 1294683570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1294683571 0 :drakhan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(; < 1294683572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not broke. < 1294683574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is drakhan < 1294683577 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection) < 1294683581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that is correct < 1294683593 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the TCP connection was broken. < 1294683596 0 :drakhan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as for my person - I`m new here < 1294683621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1294683630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you on one of those horrible keyboard layouts where you can't put an apostrophe in properly < 1294683631 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1294683647 0 :drakhan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi. < 1294683652 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well /whois says .pl, you could check that < 1294683668 0 :drakhan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it`s my preference < 1294683675 0 :drakhan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Poland. < 1294683725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's your preference to use backticks instead of apostrophes? < 1294683743 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even diamonds feel worthless when your items are all made of it for free :( < 1294683752 0 :drakhan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it so important? < 1294683762 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just curious, since it makes lines harder to read. < 1294683812 0 :drakhan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A matter of habit. < 1294683817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Somewhat typical of PHP’s API, there are actually thirteen different built-in array sorting functions." < 1294683980 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric < 1294684058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :philosophical question < 1294684060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if j-invariant's j varied < 1294684062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would happen < 1294684093 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP's design philosophy is "you should never have to write any real algorithms. any algorithm that actually does something difficult should be built in." < 1294684113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: "Except that, we'll actually implement it badly." < 1294684119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently usort() used to be — wait for it — BUBBLESORT. < 1294684120 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I would stay the same < 1294684136 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :friend of mine wrote bot in php and i said "it should have a rot13 function" and he determined that the best method to implement it ... would be to make a call to rot13() >_> < 1294684153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently they left their CS classes in the three seconds between "This is bubblesort" and "NEVER USE BUBBLESORT." < 1294684166 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe one should have to aquire a liscence to write algorithms < 1294684173 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like a driving liscence < 1294684188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: european computer mechanics license < 1294684193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there's a european computer driving license) < 1294684200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it is a hilariously easy Microsoft Office thing) < 1294684205 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course if you have a full proof that you algorithm works you can use a provisional algorithm liscence to have it uploaded into a sandbox < 1294684231 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one is bubble sort? < 1294684235 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it can never be actually used unless it is also experimentally determined to be efficient in practice < 1294684239 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever heard of Dijkstras room? < 1294684240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the horrible one < 1294684255 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the *algorithm*? < 1294684261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: bitch, you can work that out without testing it < 1294684267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your theory doesn't match practice your theory wasn't good enough < 1294684269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're executed < 1294684270 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the one with the near-guaranteed quadratic runtime in number-of-comparisons < 1294684284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubble_sort#Implementation < 1294684339 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" PHP's design philosophy is "you should never have to write any real algorithms. any algorithm that actually does something difficult should be built in."" <<< somehow i doubt it actually has any useful algorithms in it < 1294684340 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure, but sometimes it's easier to test it on all the possible hardware platforms than prove for each instruction set (and the respective latencies) that the constants in the runtime are low < 1294684346 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it? < 1294684355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: instructions are irrelevant, mostly < 1294684356 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://zem.fi/~fis/mcmap-win-fba7271.zip and then just doubleklick the .exe. < 1294684364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't get "oh this c code is really slow on sparc but really fast on x86" < 1294684377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just takes one level of abstraction to even those out < 1294684383 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean say if i want to turn an NFA into a DFA < 1294684388 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the php function < 1294684419 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's basically the only thing you'll ever need < 1294684419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: nfatodfa($nfa) OR nfa_convert('Dfa',$nfa,2) (the 2 is to disable the old version of the function) < 1294684423 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's mainly an issue when involving floating point stuff, memory/disk access, and other I/O < 1294684444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or automatonConvt($nfa, getconv('NFA'), getconv('DFA'), $output) < 1294684463 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah thanks < 1294684489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man how did i break this < 1294684491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: note: lies < 1294684494 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you even fail at quicksort? < 1294684502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: qsort is not really something that should be used. < 1294684511 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with quicksort? < 1294684513 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recursion? < 1294684517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: worst-case performance < 1294684520 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what about that algorithm that solves the two-pair case of pcp? < 1294684521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever(n^2) < 1294684523 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quacksort < 1294684529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--> if you sort arbitrary user-inputted data < 1294684533 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the marked version < 1294684533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you gon get DDoSed < 1294684536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1294684537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just DoSed < 1294684545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: e.g. merge sort is much better < 1294684553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: do merge sort in clue :P < 1294684562 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there an in-place sort with the performance guarantee of merge sort? < 1294684565 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking i'd, but then i not'd. < 1294684581 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i think there's an in-place merge sort < 1294684600 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's kinda hairy, if i recall correctly < 1294684626 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can do quicksort without recursion, i think < 1294684630 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1294684633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heap sort is also good < 1294684636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1294684638 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you don't get any better worst case performance < 1294684639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1294684640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1294684641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what < 1294684642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timsort < 1294684643 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heap sort is very fast, and can be done in-place < 1294684644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1294684645 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heap sort is also not in-place < 1294684647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stable mergesort < 1294684650 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1294684656 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to do in place oklopol < 1294684658 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia; merge sort is worst case n log n < 1294684658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it's in-place but < 1294684659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares < 1294684662 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: do what in-place? < 1294684666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mergesort or if you're feeling fancy, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timsort < 1294684670 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heap sort < 1294684713 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: You can do merge-sort in-place and some variants have even been described by Finnish guys: http://www.diku.dk/hjemmesider/ansatte/jyrki/Paper/mergesort_NJC.ps < 1294684714 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well you use an array, and 1 (2 3) (4 5 6 7) (8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15) ... where those are the levels of the tree < 1294684724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Finnish guys, what would we do without them. < 1294684733 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can then multiply index by 2 and either add 1 or 0 to get to children, and divide by 2 to get to daddy < 1294684758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww hi daddy < 1294684760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's mommy < 1294684764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this in a cruel world where all list mothers run away < 1294684765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1294684766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the worst < 1294684768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your sorting algorithm < 1294684770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what has it < 1294684771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of < 1294684813 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: lol no wonder a prof at our uni mentioned it < 1294684824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually funny how broken this is... < 1294684828 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jukka teuhola is a prof at our uni < 1294684833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well more like, depressing < 1294684839 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :katajainen hangs there too < 1294684849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :diz ir oklopol < 1294684850 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Yeah, we hear about Kohonen maps all the time at WaveU. < 1294684857 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1294684862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh god don't call it that < 1294684874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wait how old is fizzie now, 47? < 1294684898 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also WSOM 2011 deadline is Jan 14th, submit your full papers now!) < 1294684904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :48? < 1294684907 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's even PRACTICAL in-place mergesort :D < 1294684909 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Twentyseven, I think. < 1294684914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :49 then < 1294684926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i want to see the previous paper, Impractical In-Place Mergesort < 1294684940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: "average O(2^n), but hey, it's in-place mergesort!" < 1294684949 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: can you write fib with clue? < 1294684955 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the earliest draft, "completely useless out-of-place mergesort". < 1294684958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater00: yes. < 1294684960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :efficiently too. < 1294684967 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you write a clue compiler? < 1294684973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater00: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p6379491136.txt < 1294684983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yes, with more pain than anyone should have to endure :D < 1294685028 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: has been done, so yeah < 1294685037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no, IN clue < 1294685040 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1294685041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant means < 1294685047 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in a very nice way < 1294685051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1294685053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :understatement prize < 1294685055 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance parsing is nicest to do with mutual rec < 1294685077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah < 1294685077 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a clever way to do it though? by reflecting the way clue works < 1294685079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's totally the main reason < 1294685085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: nope, not even remotely < 1294685090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't harness it at runtime at all < 1294685094 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1294685099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if you had eval :P < 1294685106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clue interp ~ eval < 1294685107 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing as crude as eval < 1294685109 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe there could be a slightly modified form of clue < 1294685117 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which allows for a nontrivial self interpreter < 1294685128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's not really an interp < 1294685132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clue is pretty inherently a compiler < 1294685133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as much as can be < 1294685178 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clue could even be thought of as a metalanguage < 1294685198 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but hopefully people don't) < 1294685270 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there some detailed pages on Clue with source code? < 1294685278 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1294685310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: clue.py :P < 1294685311 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's the esolang page, that's it < 1294685312 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't the probability of getting O(n^2) runtime for a random-pivot quicksort unbelievably low? < 1294685326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yes, but the point is that you can't trust your users. < 1294685335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy to craft such inputs < 1294685339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this has been done < 1294685345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: also, why bother? merge sort is just as easy < 1294685361 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just trying to understand the theory man < 1294685364 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :merging is almost the same thing as pivoting < 1294685366 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not the guy in charge of this shit < 1294685380 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the other one unzips, the other one zips < 1294685381 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where can i find these carefully crafted inputs? < 1294685404 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: no he means if you run qs on user-given input on your server, then ppl can give crafted inputs that make slow it up < 1294685431 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can craft such inputs if you know how pivoting is done < 1294685435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this shit is well-known btw < 1294685436 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes, but i don't see how any adversary could slow a random-pivot quicksort < 1294685444 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like random pivoting is unbeatable < 1294685457 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed it does < 1294685466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, if you use a crypto rng < 1294685466 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if it *is* though < 1294685468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that seems unlikely. < 1294685470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, meh < 1294685472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :merge sort is nicer anyway < 1294685495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also quicksort is unstable < 1294685496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just lame < 1294685518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.44.5903 < 1294685555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the theoretical worst-case performance is reason enough :) < 1294685579 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was already convinced. you were preaching to the choir < 1294685595 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just curious about the theory of DoSing qs < 1294685637 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you need an easier character to type than > for the "goes to" symbol in clue < 1294685643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater00: it's -> < 1294685644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not > < 1294685648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that is like < 1294685650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stupidest complaint < 1294685650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever < 1294685661 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you realize > is inside -> ? < 1294685673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> is trivial to type, if it isn't your layout sucks < 1294685674 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `type' < 1294685678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also this is an esolang < 1294685683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop bothering us with your petty concerns :| < 1294685688 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you're boring me < 1294685691 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater00: i have to agree with elliott, that is even less interesting than elliott's additions! :P < 1294685708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i totally removed branchers, man < 1294685710 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the most important reason for me to use python over php is that it doesn't use braces :D < 1294685712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and implemented your default thing < 1294685716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :default branch thing < 1294685719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shower me with praise < 1294685722 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: being able to type in code without shift is veddy important < 1294685722 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: everyone ignored them already :D < 1294685726 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well except in ski < 1294685735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i did #x into x, that's like < 1294685738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :total improvement < 1294685741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also removed the devil ,s < 1294685745 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: can you do map/reduce with clue? < 1294685749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1294685751 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't < 1294685752 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you will be < 1294685755 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't you? < 1294685757 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :able to < 1294685760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it has no first-class functions < 1294685762 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1294685762 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because functions not ho < 1294685767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :functions not ho < 1294685767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1294685779 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about map/reduce with a hardcoded reduction < 1294685783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's trivial. < 1294685785 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like just + < 1294685806 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you can do that < 1294685807 0 :luatre!~luatre@91.104.236.154 JOIN :#esoteric < 1294685820 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might even compile fast! < 1294685838 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does Clue have higher order programs? < 1294685843 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1294685844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, as we just said :P < 1294685846 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not atm < 1294685853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: sum ~ {. [] -> 0 } sum ~ {:. [1 2 3] -> 6 : [2 3] -> 5 :. [4 5 6] -> 15 : [5 6] -> 11 } sum ~ add; cdr; 0 < 1294685853 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DepthLimitException: depth limit exceeded (sum) :( < 1294685855 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they would be easy to add though < 1294685855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1294685857 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no lambda! WHAT! < 1294685859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did i do wrong < 1294685867 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean ridiculously easy < 1294685871 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: wow! I was hoping they would be some tremendously difficult addition < 1294685874 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1TSND_enUS401US401&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=-lang.org#sclient=psy&hl=en&rlz=1C1TSND_enUS401US401&source=hp&q=lang.org&aq=f&aqi=g-s1g-c1g-ms2g-o1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=ca05a7bb65e82229 < 1294685876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol < 1294685877 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There goes my life < 1294685878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did i wrong < 1294685905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: WHAT DID I WRONG < 1294685906 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to die from lack of food and sleep due to reading about programming languages for the rest of my short life. Bye all. < 1294685910 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially you'd have to give an apply function to glue, and have syntax for functions in examples < 1294685918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: ah so you won't talk about them? < 1294685919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great, have fun < 1294685924 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: aren't most of then rubbish? < 1294685929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: doesn't matter to sgeo < 1294685951 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: anyway are you going to structure this, like study a new one at the start of each fortnight? < 1294685955 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1294685956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: lol http://www.thorn-lang.org/ is high on that list, which Gregor did something with :P < 1294685959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least i've seen it before < 1294685961 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: why not? < 1294685961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he's listed on the page < 1294685964 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: what is your plan? < 1294685969 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, just keep reading < 1294685970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to read them all and not eat or sleep and then die < 1294685971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as he stated < 1294685989 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: well maybe you are just fundamentally different than me, but if I did that I would not really get much out of it < 1294686013 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you don't have car < 1294686018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oh right < 1294686019 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, if by "get something out of it" you mean "be capable of writing a line of code in that language" than yes, well < 1294686022 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*then < 1294686023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you need pattern matching :P < 1294686027 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :car and cdr should be a single command < 1294686033 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: no I didn't mean that < 1294686035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: returning a list, good idea! < 1294686038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: waaaaiit. < 1294686039 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1294686041 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1294686043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: sum ~ {. [] -> 0 } sum ~ {:. [1 2 3] -> 6 : [2 3] -> 5 :. [4 5 6] -> 15 : [5 6] -> 11 } sum ~ add; car; cdr; 0 < 1294686043 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for -: 'float' and '_socketobject' :( < 1294686048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...xD < 1294686050 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly what i meant, but why not < 1294686067 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1294686072 0 :luatre!~luatre@91.104.236.154 JOIN :#esoteric < 1294686073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: sum ~ {. [] -> 0 } sum ~ {:. [1 2 3] -> 6 : [2 3] -> 5 :. [4 5 6] -> 15 : [5 6] -> 11 } sum ~ add; car; cdr; 0 < 1294686074 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiled in 0.0132999420166 seconds < 1294686074 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sum: (a) => [a] | [] => 0 | _ => add(@(cdr(a)) car(a)) < 1294686080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater00: fold ^ < 1294686086 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Epigram 1 any good? < 1294686088 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: þorn.org is the preferable address :P < 1294686097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No :-P Not compared to Epigram 2! < 1294686103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: why does the recursion become the first argument, that's kinda WEIRD < 1294686108 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why? < 1294686111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: omg that works :D < 1294686116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: BECAUSE IT'S NOT EPIGRAM 2 < 1294686123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::. sum([1 2 7 9]) < 1294686123 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19 < 1294686134 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, you know about this stuff. < 1294686138 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1294686141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh thanks Phantom_Hoover < 1294686144 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1294686181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: factorial loop ~ {. 0 6 -> 6 . 0 24 -> 24 } factorial loop ~ {:. 3 1 -> 6 : 2 3 -> 6 :. 1 6 -> 6 : 0 6 -> 6 } factorial loop ~ multiply; pred < 1294686181 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiled in 0.00318908691406 seconds < 1294686181 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :factorial loop: (a, b) => [a] | 0 => b | _ => @(pred(a) multiply(a b)) < 1294686216 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Everything that went into epigram 1 is spelled out in Conors research papers: Read those instead.. and once you've donen that you can read the new ones about the theory of Epigram 2 < 1294686222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::. factorial loop(0 factorial loop(1 factorial loop(2 factorial loop(0 3)))) < 1294686222 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 < 1294686228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...xD < 1294686232 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Once you've done all that.. maybe Epigram 2 will be useable! < 1294686233 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timber just caught my eye < 1294686234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::. factorial loop(0 factorial loop(1 factorial loop(2 factorial loop(3 factorial loop(0 4))))) < 1294686234 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :48 < 1294686240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good < 1294686249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait it should be 4 0 < 1294686254 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Does MapReduce = map . reduce with optimisations? < 1294686258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::. factorial loop(0 factorial loop(1 factorial loop(2 factorial loop(3 factorial loop(4 0))))) < 1294686258 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1294686260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait no < 1294686261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 4 < 1294686262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1294686265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::. factorial loop(0 4) < 1294686265 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 < 1294686266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::. factorial loop(0 5) < 1294686266 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 < 1294686274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we want < 1294686274 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mobl.... sounds... intersting yet scary < 1294686276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :factorial loop(rest this) < 1294686277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1294686280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :factorial loop(recurse this) < 1294686289 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would NOT like to see Mobl take over the world < 1294686311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is mobl < 1294686339 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mobl-lang.org/ < 1294686345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::. factorial loop(factorial loop(factorial loop(0 1) 2) 3) < 1294686345 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 < 1294686351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::. factorial loop(factorial loop(factorial loop(factorial loop(0 1) 2) 3) 4) < 1294686351 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2880 < 1294686363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::. factorial loop(factorial loop(0 1) 2) < 1294686363 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1294686379 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, Christ that's stupid. < 1294686386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: what ~ {. [] -> 0 } what ~ { [0 1 2 3 4] -> 2880 : [0 1 2 3] -> 6 :. [0 1 2 3] -> 5 : [0 1 2] -> 2 } what ~ factorial loop; 0; car; cdr < 1294686386 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiled in 0.00108098983765 seconds < 1294686386 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what: (a) => [a] | _ => 0 < 1294686389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1294686391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ^ < 1294686397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1294686398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1294686399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad syntax < 1294686407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: what ~ {. [] -> 0 } what ~ {:. [0 1 2 3 4] -> 2880 : [0 1 2 3] -> 6 :. [0 1 2 3] -> 5 : [0 1 2] -> 2 } what ~ factorial loop; 0; car; cdr < 1294686407 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded while calling a Python object :( < 1294686408 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many times will people reinvent the same language? < 1294686412 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1294686418 0 :luatre!~luatre@91.104.236.154 JOIN :#esoteric < 1294686421 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same language? < 1294686421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: factorial loop ~ {. 0 6 -> 6 . 0 24 -> 24 } factorial loop ~ {:. 3 1 -> 6 : 2 3 -> 6 :. 1 6 -> 6 : 0 6 -> 6 } factorial loop ~ multiply; pred < 1294686421 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiled in 0.00199413299561 seconds < 1294686421 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :factorial loop: (a, b) => [a] | 0 => b | _ => @(pred(a) multiply(a b)) < 1294686425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: what ~ {. [] -> 0 } what ~ {:. [0 1 2 3 4] -> 2880 : [0 1 2 3] -> 6 :. [0 1 2 3] -> 5 : [0 1 2] -> 2 } what ~ factorial loop; 0; car; cdr < 1294686425 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded while calling a Python object :( < 1294686430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1294686447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: what ~ {. [] -> 0 } what ~ {:. [0 1 2 3 4] -> 2880 : [0 1 2 3] -> 6 :. [0 1 2 3] -> 6 : [0 1 2] -> 2 } what ~ factorial loop; 0; car; cdr < 1294686447 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded while calling a Python object :( < 1294686458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: what ~ {. [] -> 0 } what ~ {:. [0 1 2 3] -> 6 : [0 1 2] -> 2 } what ~ factorial loop; 0; car; cdr < 1294686458 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded in __instancecheck__ :( < 1294686461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1294686515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::. factorial loop(factorial loop(0 1) 2) < 1294686516 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1294686529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::. factorial loop(0 1) < 1294686529 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1294686533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: what ~ {. [] -> 0 } what ~ {:. [0 1 2] -> 2 : [0 1] -> 1 } what ~ factorial loop; 0; car; cdr < 1294686534 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded while calling a Python object :( < 1294686537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf???? < 1294686539 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1294686544 0 :luatre!~luatre@91.104.236.154 JOIN :#esoteric < 1294686547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: factorial loop ~ {. 0 6 -> 6 . 0 24 -> 24 } factorial loop ~ {:. 3 1 -> 6 : 2 3 -> 6 :. 1 6 -> 6 : 0 6 -> 6 } factorial loop ~ multiply; pred < 1294686548 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiled in 0.00293016433716 seconds < 1294686548 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :factorial loop: (a, b) => [a] | 0 => b | _ => @(pred(a) multiply(a b)) < 1294686559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: what ~ {. [] -> 0 } what ~ {:. [0 1 2] -> 2 : [0 1] -> 1 } what ~ factorial loop; 0; car; cdr < 1294686560 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded while calling a Python object :( < 1294686562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol < 1294686587 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elly < 1294686602 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Like many programmers with a pulse, I am compelled to create my own programming language." < 1294686606 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jolt-lang.org/ < 1294686608 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want me to tell you what's wrong? < 1294686617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it stack overflows for no apparent reason < 1294686619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes < 1294686620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do < 1294686659 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-71.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1294686676 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1294686685 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1294686716 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see anything wrong < 1294686745 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::. factorial loop (0 6) < 1294686745 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 < 1294686753 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::. factorial loop (10 1) < 1294686754 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3628800 < 1294686756 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1294686763 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what gave an error exactly? < 1294686764 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plain language! < 1294686766 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what"? < 1294686793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes < 1294686797 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the examples for what make no sense, so there's really no telling what the code will do < 1294686805 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1294686820 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except you get a runtime error during compilation < 1294686826 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so obviously < 1294686834 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :factorial loop is called with parameters what make it infloop < 1294686841 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you don't catch exceptions anymore < 1294686854 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(incidentally, this is why i caught theem) < 1294686855 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*them < 1294686873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i'll catch stack overflow exceptions then? < 1294686879 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm yeah prolly < 1294686896 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Pika: < 1294686901 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mersenne Twister based pseudorandom number generator." is not a language feature. < 1294686907 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In conclusion, fuck you. < 1294686912 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.pika-lang.org/features/ < 1294686950 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chu < 1294686980 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Technically that depends :P < 1294686999 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: If it has a random-based object system ... :P < 1294687002 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: why not? < 1294687042 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Language features are features of the LANGUAGE, not libraries provided. < 1294687057 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the features page doesn't say _language_ features < 1294687066 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also doesn't list every single library < 1294687066 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it didn't? :P < 1294687070 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the different between language and library is fuzzy < 1294687080 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in that case, j-invariant: That's an extremely boring feature :P < 1294687085 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1294687121 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have a library that lets you retrieve content via HTTP! < 1294687135 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-71.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1294687165 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why you should use my language: Ships with binding to libcurl. < 1294687167 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rest of Pika is boring < 1294687179 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Everything except for the random number generator? ;) < 1294687213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey Sgeo_ < 1294687214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use Apex < 1294687215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the best < 1294687235 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's in contrast to those languages who ship with stdlibs who use the xkcd RNG < 1294687255 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...on-demand? < 1294687298 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's. A. Language. For. Code. That. Runs. On. salesforce.com. < 1294687298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1294687306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1294687319 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enterprise Language 101 < 1294687326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, every time you talk to us about languages < 1294687330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's time you could spend googling more < 1294687334 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you don't mean http://wiki.developerforce.com/index.php/Apex_Code:_The_World's_First_On-Demand_Programming_Language do you? < 1294687338 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what Google came up with < 1294687341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i don't < 1294687366 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahah, reading that. < 1294687373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean Apex, the expressive, functional imperative language from Cat's Eye Technologies < 1294687402 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Like all aspects of salesforce.com’s application and platform technologies, Apex Code is “on demand,” running entirely on Force.com without requiring any local servers or software' <-- this ... is what they mean? LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWL < 1294687495 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's the first language that HAS to be run on the cloud < 1294687505 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Probably not) < 1294687582 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I can't find Apex on cpressey's site < 1294687596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too secret. or too vapourware. < 1294687605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also mostly formulated by me. < 1294687679 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1294687799 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1294687931 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: how come you are interested in it anyway? < 1294687940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what < 1294687947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh epi < 1294687953 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: APPLIED PHLEBOTINUM IS BETTER THAN LOGIC < 1294687958 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The consensus is: " Let’s briefly look at some non-solutions to the software problem. First, we can’t just prove everything to be correct. This is way too expensive and most real systems lack formal specifications." < 1294687966 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" At present, it is not even clear that the correct behavior of large systems can be formalized at all, though hopefully this will be possible someday (exercise for the reader: formalize Asimov’s Three Laws in HOL, Coq, or a similar language)." < 1294687973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is this broken, what manner of witchery is this < 1294687974 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone seems to agree with this (tripe) < 1294687987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: eh? < 1294688009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT MANNER OF WITCHERY IS THIS!!!!!! < 1294688017 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it is exceptional to find people that seriously think proofs are sensible < 1294688023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtwfwtwffwtwftwfwwffwtwfwtfffffff < 1294688025 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or useful etc etc < 1294688040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: you can find them interesting without finding them useful :) i.e. computer-based systems < 1294688042 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Clearly math education should be mandatory. < 1294688057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not entirely sure that Coq/Epigram/etc. are useful for proving theorems. for writing verified software, of course. < 1294688062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but regardless, they are interesting. < 1294688078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh < 1294688082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how tk eats up all exceptoins < 1294688084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't print them < 1294688085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*exceptions < 1294688086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well Tkinter < 1294688089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very nice < 1294688110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, that is a problem < 1294688194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: can you give your executive opinion on a part of cled < 1294688201 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: huh? it is < 1294688212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: no it isn't < 1294688214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arithmetic education is < 1294688219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm it's kinda broken when you tab away... todo, fix < 1294688261 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: That's no more math education than the alphabet is literature education. < 1294688295 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to teach math? < 1294688347 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite likely. Is it possible without a mathematician becoming supreme ruler of the Department of Education (or your local national equivalent)? Probably not. < 1294688369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol i need opinion < 1294688376 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because almost everyone is convinced that we already teach math, and quite well... < 1294688422 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha they must be crazy < 1294688489 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, ...you didn't know this? < 1294688506 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't know what? < 1294688512 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Were you homeschooled for your entire life until you moved out into a cave in the wilderness? < 1294688517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1294688521 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That maths education is nothing of the sort. < 1294688521 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't pay much attention in school < 1294688564 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: anyway I am curious how&why did you get interesetd in epigram < 1294688573 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems... interesting. < 1294688577 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1294688668 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combinatorics is interesting < 1294688736 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man. I just now realised that IPv4 depletion is literally happening *this month*... < 1294688760 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome. < 1294688770 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blargh < 1294688774 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. It *could* happen early February. < 1294688807 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So wait, what was P(civilisation collapses) again? < 1294688814 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0. < 1294688835 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd suggest not being in the stock market, though. < 1294688846 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or strategically selling short. < 1294688873 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But P(civilisation collapses | the stock market fluctuates) is rather high, no? < 1294688888 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite high, yes. < 1294688906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't have that big a deal < 1294688909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NATs are not very hard to set up really < 1294688917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and remember that most hosting companies and the like < 1294688922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :already have way more IPs than they use < 1294688931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Telecoms are boned. < 1294688935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not like people are gonna see "lol no you can't have a server we have no ip to give it" < 1294688937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh sure < 1294688939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just saying that < 1294688943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone already has IPs to spare < 1294688945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it won't be a _huge_ deal < 1294688969 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that adoption of IPv6 will be really expensive at this point, and it will be mandatory pretty soon. < 1294688990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly for the telecoms. < 1294689311 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. < 1294689344 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After depletion, RIPE and AfriNIC will only allocate IPv4 to entities with IPv6 allocations. < 1294689604 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1294690210 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was there something derisive about measuring code in KLOCs? < 1294690234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: eh? < 1294690920 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://www.reddit.com/r/compsci/comments/ez93s/the_future_of_software_system_correctness/c1c7740?context=3 < 1294690978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: heh < 1294690984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i think they're right though ... _for now_ < 1294690989 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.999.. = 1 therefore math is not perfect < 1294691007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I have a feeling that with the progress, probably a... loss of precision will be had < 1294691023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i.e., it turns out that if you prove a kernel, like, "only 80%" correct, it takes only 30% of the work < 1294691041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"After depending typing, the only type of bugs left are those that are not provable, like if prime numbers ever end and such." lol wat < 1294691061 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well generally you would only prove the very very awkward difficult parts: So 80% correct would be 99% as hard < 1294691081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Perhaps! ...but then perhaps not, you see people writing unit tests for every damn thing < 1294691082 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: LOL < 1294691094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Anyway, consider, the very very awkward difficult parts tend to consist of multiple subproblems < 1294691102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: so if you prove most of those but not all < 1294691108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: or if you prove that all of them apply in, like, 80% of cases < 1294691135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: like, I can imagine some proof system that lets you state some property on, like, floats, and as long as it can experimentally verify it for a few thousand random values, and also pathological ones like denormalised numbers < 1294691139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it lets it be accepted as a theorem < 1294691143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useless, mathematically < 1294691147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for proving software, potentially very useful < 1294691235 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1294691239 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's called testing elliott < 1294691244 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :peopl already do that < 1294691264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: not really < 1294691269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I mean, say you have a big, formal proof < 1294691274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that relies on some twiddly property of floating point numbers < 1294691283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: if you can prove that, using that theorem < 1294691294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then have that hypothesis about floating points "experimentally" demonstrated < 1294691297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it allows the proof < 1294691308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a whole lot better than just testing the component < 1294691584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: lol ololol ololo olol ololololo lololoo < 1294691586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: "Does computer science completely miss the point of a computer -- namely, that it is a creative tool?" < 1294691599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One could argue that computer science is like a "pen science" where scientists find ways to write as quickly as possible with a pen and to fill up a page with as much text as possible. < 1294691599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would of course completely miss the point of a pen. < 1294691599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One could say something similar about computer science with its focus on time and space efficiency of computations. < 1294691601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The computer -- like a pen -- is a creative tool and the focus should be on the invention of new kinds of software applications -- not on making existing ones more efficient. < 1294691602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Universities should have a creative field of study -- distinct from computer science -- for novel uses of computers. < 1294691604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roffflllll < 1294691606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xDD < 1294691626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst thing ... ever < 1294691631 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1294691642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did that get on /r/compsci < 1294691666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i like how they think computer science is just about like < 1294691667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimising programs < 1294691680 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hat does the /r < 1294691686 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*What does the /r mean? < 1294691697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: subreddit < 1294691699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's part of the url < 1294691702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit.com/r/subredditname < 1294691956 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1294691961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol you'll love this program < 1294691966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know why oklopol < 1294692284 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1294692289 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: where was that < 1294692289 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION accidentally mentally dropped the why < 1294692297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: /r/compsci < 1294692301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: what < 1294692303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1294692303 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I know < 1294692309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: it's on the front page < 1294692312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of compsci < 1294692314 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked there < 1294692334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's #3 < 1294692337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're not looking quite hard enough :D < 1294692341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/compsci/comments/ez4op/does_computer_science_completely_miss_the_point/ < 1294692384 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what thehell? that's not on my front page at all < 1294692421 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1294692457 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: looks like the poster actually agrees with that stuff http://www.reddit.com/r/compsci/comments/ez4op/does_computer_science_completely_miss_the_point/c1c2upo < 1294692463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i have a feeling the poster asked the question < 1294692465 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: P.S. did you not notice this is voted zero :| < 1294692467 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just realized i haven't used ftp in so long that i don't have a proper ftp client installed. any recommendations? < 1294692474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i did yeah < 1294692479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: ftp(1) < 1294692487 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1294692496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's trivial to use < 1294692516 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-65-80.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1294692519 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but it requires me to remember the command names. i want drag and drop for instant gratification < 1294692539 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read: i'm lazy, motherfuckers < 1294692680 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1294692873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRONY: http://i.imgur.com/DkbPs.png < 1294692891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(after someone got into his account in the thread an xss was discovered in stackoverflow) < 1294692984 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ok, he never uses StackOverflow anyway < 1294693028 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jeff atwood is such a dork < 1294693160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thread where an < 1294693173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i could delete jeff atwood's face < 1294693174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or all of him < 1294693236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: have you written any clue programs yet? < 1294693251 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I am waiting for the wiki page: please write it! < 1294693281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Clue_%28oklopol%29 < 1294693290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: it is not very complete... e.g. bags can also contain objects < 1294693293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a primer :> < 1294693302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it does say that < 1294693304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok just read it then < 1294693324 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should write a Clue compiler < 1294693338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: uh, "good luck" < 1294693347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: clue.py is 717 lines < 1294693375 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously the problem is that you're using python < 1294693380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: :> < 1294693397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: writing clue programs is great fun though, you struggle through and go wtf, but the moment the compiler spits out the right function < 1294693402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it feels like it was so easy < 1294693405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and your code is so simple < 1294693466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::: http://pb.vjn.fi/p9634238413.txt < 1294693466 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Downloading... < 1294693467 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiling, just a minute... < 1294693467 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DepthLimitException: depth limit exceeded (:..: factorial stack-hogging factorial) :( < 1294693473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw man ... < 1294693478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comments don't actually work < 1294693496 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how do you compile clue? < 1294693512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: difficultly... < 1294693519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: it's basically advanced brute force :) < 1294693523 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not just breath first generate all programs? < 1294693529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way < 1294693539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a reason there's more than one {} branch in each function < 1294693542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, most functions < 1294693547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., there's a reason you do that < 1294693549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a reason the bag exists < 1294693553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's a reason :. : exist to denote recursion < 1294693565 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay this is getting complicated < 1294693585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: hehe < 1294693612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yeah there is basically no way you could do recursive functions (only flow control other than branching really) with a stupid search like that < 1294693618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the search is stupid, not the idea, that is < 1294693628 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1294693676 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1294693681 0 :luatre!~luatre@91.104.236.154 JOIN :#esoteric < 1294693682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::: http://pb.vjn.fi/p9634238413.txt < 1294693682 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Downloading... < 1294693683 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiling, just a minute... < 1294693683 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DepthLimitException: depth limit exceeded (:..: factorial stack-hogging factorial) :( < 1294693686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1294693694 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1294693699 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh this is a clue bot! < 1294693699 0 :luatre!~luatre@91.104.236.154 JOIN :#esoteric < 1294693701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::: http://pb.vjn.fi/p9634238413.txt < 1294693701 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Downloading... < 1294693702 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiling, just a minute... < 1294693702 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DepthLimitException: depth limit exceeded (:..: factorial stack-hogging factorial) :( < 1294693706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't use it i'm busy fixing it :> < 1294693712 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1294693719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what ... < 1294693732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o, lol < 1294693844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey j-invariant < 1294693852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many ways can you represent 6, if . is +1 and : is +2 < 1294693859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those are the only symbols you can use < 1294693899 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what . and : do < 1294693907 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh they are symbols for +1 and +2 < 1294693918 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ...... is 6 < 1294693923 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::: is 6 < 1294693923 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Downloading... < 1294693924 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ValueError: unknown url type: is 6 :( < 1294693939 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1294693940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yep < 1294693942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can combine them < 1294693942 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1294693949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it's a cluebot. < 1294693952 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::.... .:... ..:.. ...:. ....: < 1294693952 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Downloading... < 1294693953 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :URLError: :( < 1294693953 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lemonparty.com < 1294693961 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a fail :P < 1294693962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: xD < 1294693970 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::.. <-- can't be bothered drawing all these but there are 4!/2!2! of them < 1294693970 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Downloading... < 1294693971 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ValueError: unknown url type: <-- can't be bothered drawing all these but there are 4!/2!2! of them :( < 1294693981 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::: http://lemonparty.com < 1294693981 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Downloading... < 1294693981 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiling, just a minute... < 1294693982 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiled in 3.00407409668e-05 seconds < 1294693985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1294693987 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1294693989 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1294694007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott-Hirds-MacBook-Air:~ ehird$ curl http://lemonparty.com < 1294694008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1294694012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardly surprising it was fast then < 1294694029 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 1 + 5!/1!4! + 4!/2!2! + 1 < 1294694061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: ok, i'm not gonna write out all 2906 then :D < 1294694084 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's 13?? < 1294694092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, W|A fails at parsing < 1294694099 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1294694103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what < 1294694107 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I wasn't using proper syntax < 1294694119 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4!/2!2! is obviouly 24 < 1294694133 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 5!/1!4! is obviously 24*120 < 1294694143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 5!/(1!4!). < 1294694313 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean 4!/(2! * 2!) < 1294694320 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. 6 < 1294694345 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes no sense to use abcd/efgh as abcdfgh/e < 1294694351 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't who does this < 1294694356 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, everyone does, but I don't know why < 1294694365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes it looks nicer < 1294694366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda < 1294694373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same reason you see \frac{1}{x} ... in equations < 1294694376 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but in that case you can use (abcd/e)fgh < 1294694380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1294694382 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1294694499 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : same reason you see \frac{1}{x} ... in equations ← as opposed to...? < 1294694601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: \frac{...}{x} < 1294694609 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: words letters = map (flip replicateM letters) [1..] < 1294694617 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1294694654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: was that...responding to my #haskell question in here? < 1294694654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1294694683 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl words letters = map (flip replicateM letters) [1..] < 1294694683 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :words = flip map [1..] . flip replicateM < 1294694707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that produces a list of lists, you mean concatMap surely < 1294694722 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, an @pl which is pretty! < 1294694724 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re the "how many times", it's actually fib times: http://oeis.org/A000045 "F(n)=number of compositions of n-1 with no part greater than 2. Example: F(4)=3 because we have 3 = 1+1+1=1+2=2+1." < 1294694752 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh flip replicateM letters =<< [1..] then < 1294694782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude Control.Monad> takeWhile (\x -> s x < 7) (words ":.") < 1294694782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[":",".","::",":.",".:","..",":::","::.",":.:",":..",".::",".:.","..:","..."] < 1294694783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: wait what < 1294694788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude Control.Monad> let s('.':xs)=1+s xs;s(':':xs)=2+s xs;s []=0 < 1294694868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: is it just not ordered like that? < 1294694889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yay i got all 13 < 1294694890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[":::","::..",":.:.",":..:",".::.",".:.:","..::",":....",".:...","..:..","...:.","....:","......"] < 1294694919 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Re the "how many times", it's actually fib times: http://oeis.org/A000045 "F(n)=number of compositions of n-1 with no part greater than 2. Example: F(4)=3 because we have 3 = 1+1+1=1+2=2+1." ← COINCIDENCE? < 1294694927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1294694958 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And of course it's fib, since for all the F(n) ways to write n, there are F(n-1) those that start with '.' and F(n-2) those that start with ':'. < 1294694983 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know. < 1294694992 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly the example is a bit silly. < 1294695003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: how many times what < 1294695017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh how many ways to write? < 1294695018 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1294695020 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Should've been that, yes. < 1294695023 0 :luatre!~luatre@91.104.236.154 JOIN :#esoteric < 1294695032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p9634238413.txt < 1294695032 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Downloading... < 1294695033 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiling, just a minute... < 1294695033 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiled in 0.000127077102661 seconds < 1294695038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that's definitely not right < 1294695049 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1294695049 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1294695049 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1294695064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What's with that x- suffix. < 1294695104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: lol: < 1294695108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:28 EvanR-work: set of finite strings from a countable alphabet is countable? < 1294695108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:28 Cale: EvanR-work: yes < 1294695108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:28 EvanR-work: interesting < 1294695113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: WHAT A REVELATION < 1294695121 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: he meant something else < 1294695127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you suure < 1294695128 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: he was thinnking base infinity < 1294695133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1294695139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's continued fractions :) < 1294695141 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: which is not at all what he /said/ :P < 1294695145 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no idea. < 1294695154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no it isn't < 1294695158 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: everyone in #haskell is going "oh I misread it" < 1294695158 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask the guy on #freenode who cloaked me. < 1294695166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:29 cdsmithus: EvanR-work: It's pretty easy to see. Just enumerate all the 0-length strings (finitely many), then all the 1-length, then the 2-length, and so on. Every finite string has some length, and will be reached eventually < 1294695169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finitely many 0-length strings < 1294695173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all 1 of them < 1294695257 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1294695370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::: did i break this ~ {. 0 -> 1} did i break this ~ 1 < 1294695371 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Downloading... < 1294695371 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ValueError: unknown url type: did i break this ~ {. 0 -> 1} did i break this ~ 1 :( < 1294695374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: did i break this ~ {. 0 -> 1} did i break this ~ 1 < 1294695374 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiled in 0.00750088691711 seconds < 1294695377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, yes i did < 1294695408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhhh < 1294695410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xDDD < 1294695445 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1294695450 0 :luatre!~luatre@91.104.236.154 JOIN :#esoteric < 1294695454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p9634238413.txt < 1294695454 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Downloading... < 1294695454 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiling, just a minute... < 1294695455 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiled in 0.080559015274 seconds < 1294695455 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :factorial: (a) => [a] | _ => factorial loop(a 1) < 1294695455 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack-hogging factorial: (a) => [a] | 0 => multiply(pred(0) pred(0)) | _ => multiply(a @(pred(a))) < 1294695455 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :factorial loop: (a, b) => [a] | 0 => b | _ => @(pred(a) multiply(a b)) < 1294695455 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fibonacci: (a) => [a] | _ => fast fibonacci loop(a 0 1) < 1294695456 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fast fibonacci loop: (a, b, c) => [a] | 0 => b | _ => @(pred(a) c add(b c)) < 1294695456 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slow fibonacci: (a) => [a] | 0 => 0 | 1 => 1 | _ => add(@(pred(a)) @(pred(pred(a)))) < 1294695461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :commentz wurk! < 1294695537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: so my program's structure is quite flawed, what about you < 1294695541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any flawed programs lately? < 1294695735 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything I have written in the past ... forever < 1294695744 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1294695795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: :D < 1294695798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: have you ever written GUI PROGRAMS < 1294695806 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah they suck :| < 1294695812 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how to make it look okay < 1294695814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: haha what did you write < 1294695820 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I tried to make a little REPL < 1294695820 0 :pumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :copumpkin < 1294695830 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUI PROGRAMS WHERE ARE THEY GET THEM AWAY < 1294695893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: cled! < 1294695895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cled is a gui program < 1294695898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the best gui program ever in fact < 1294695902 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa < 1294695920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: how didn't it look ok? :p < 1294695972 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/6eG6a.png < 1294695991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that doesn't look bad < 1294696005 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sorts of sucks < 1294696010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd add a bit more spacing after the rendered equation, and possibly make that whole upper pane white-backgrounded if i could < 1294696016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: what did you write it with? < 1294696027 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/ezre7/did_notch_give_details_why_they_switched_from_git/ < 1294696029 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtk haskell < 1294696029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: anyway it's not as ugly as cled http://i.imgur.com/M27fK.png :D < 1294696033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: by far < 1294696041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: "From my own experience with both I find Subversion to be easier to understand." lol < 1294696044 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the look of cled < 1294696049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: really? it's hideous :D < 1294696055 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is Subversion awful? < 1294696061 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I want to make a GUI for interactive program derivation < 1294696066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: It's centralised. Its aim is to be "CVS done right" which is impossible. So yes. < 1294696070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that would be amazing < 1294696081 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Haskell < 1294696090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1294696092 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that paste I showed you: except you do it all in place < 1294696094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1294696101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which paste < 1294696101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1294696105 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey that would be really cute I should actually make it < 1294696118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: btw cled isn't really meant to look like that... ideally instead of those awful borders, it'd have like, those outwards poking ones... so that it looks like things deeper in the tree stick out further, you know? < 1294696119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3d style < 1294696126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: and then what would happen is, descent would be shown by element background < 1294696129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not by border colour < 1294696132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's on the todo list < 1294696171 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Program derivation? < 1294696196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: it'd be a lot nicer because right now borders kinda drown out everything < 1294696240 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: here is a derivation of init in terms of foldr http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=VBavHxpt < 1294696245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1294696258 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm actually there is no nice way to make a GUI for this < 1294696280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: btw, isn't your cons just (:) there... < 1294696300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1294696300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1294696313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cons name is kinda confusing though :p < 1294696360 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think there is a good way to make a GUI for program derivation < 1294696377 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are too many different ways to structure things < 1294696387 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What else is on voxelperfect.net other than esolang stuff? < 1294696389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps... < 1294696390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: nothing < 1294696392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that we know of < 1294696394 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: did you read that? < 1294696410 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, yes, but it confuzzled me. < 1294696413 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1294696454 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that's wrong < 1294696466 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I have no idea what fold is meant to do. < 1294696477 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: oh you should learn about foldr < 1294696484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: it is? < 1294696491 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you tried running it? < 1294696506 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I *know* what foldr is, but I thought it had a function involved... < 1294696508 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr cons [] [1..10] < 1294696509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saying why it's wrong >> telling to run :) < 1294696510 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [] < 1294696514 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1294696515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: fail < 1294696519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: cons is defined in the where clause < 1294696522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t cons < 1294696523 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. a -> [a] -> [a] < 1294696524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ that's not used < 1294696529 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1294696533 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I @let that myself < 1294696535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :init = foldr cons [] where < 1294696535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cons x [] = [] < 1294696535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cons x (y:ys) = x : y : ys < 1294696536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the final result < 1294696538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1294696539 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as defined in the where clause < 1294696546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what < 1294696563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, wait what < 1294696568 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote @let cons x [] = []; cons x (y:ys) = x : y : ys < 1294696732 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let cons x [] = [x]; cons x (y:ys) = x : y : ys in foldr cons [] [1..10] < 1294696733 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10] < 1294696742 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's revealing < 1294696748 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1294696761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: you should write a clue program ... with cled! < 1294696772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: that's not the intention, though < 1294696774 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I thought it was a debugger < 1294696779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: ... :D < 1294696787 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know! I'm just saying, it shows where it's going wrong < 1294696794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I have no idea how http://i.imgur.com/M27fK.png could be used to debug anything < 1294696803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: it's actually an editor < 1294696818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: what you see in that screenshot is the clue branch < 1294696819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{. 0 1 -> 1 < 1294696819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : . 0 5 -> 5 } < 1294696843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can descend and ascend through that tree, basically, move about, and edit individual atoms < 1294696849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus add/remove to the lists, etc. < 1294696855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lists in a display sense, not in clue-code-sense < 1294696907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm i shouldn't link to such scary screenshots when #haskellers are around < 1294696914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a feeling they have some modicum of taste < 1294696920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: can you confirm/deny? < 1294696927 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1294696935 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a true haskeller < 1294696941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that #haskellers have some modicum of taste < 1294696947 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, no taste here < 1294696952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus linking to things like http://i.imgur.com/M27fK.png when they're around is likely to scare them off < 1294696961 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen worse < 1294696967 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1294696976 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but keep in mind that I have no taste < 1294696985 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my idea of worse may actually be better < 1294696991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should implement that background-based system, like now < 1294696997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'd stop scaring off helpless children < 1294697097 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/compsci/comments/ez93s/the_future_of_software_system_correctness/c1c7ks6 < 1294697119 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAY GUYS: GODELGODELGODELGODELGODEL < 1294697130 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when will people learn this is just not relevant? < 1294697207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :godel is often relevant! but usually not in the cases when people think it is < 1294697280 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"GODELGODELGODEL" is the sound of a mathematician turkey. < 1294697550 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the incompleteness from outer space < 1294697647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a nice, light blue < 1294697658 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000FF < 1294697664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT IS NOT LIGHT < 1294697669 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFFFFF < 1294697674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT IS NOT BLUE < 1294697680 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BBBBFF < 1294697708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is... not nice... actually it's koay < 1294697709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1294697709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1294697722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :givin' cled a makeover < 1294697838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://twitter.com/notch/status/24558373093515264 Reeds are now sugar canes. I am not even kidding. < 1294697838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Sugar_Cane < 1294697851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Vorpal: Gawp at the ...ness. < 1294697959 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found some reeds but I could not find them again :( < 1294697961 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lost them < 1294698018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: *SUGAR CANES < 1294698024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: have you joined the server yet :p < 1294698043 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what is the address? < 1294698095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I can't tell you, that would be wrong; you'll have to look at a four days old log or something where we discuss mcmap! < 1294698106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a guess of course. Naturally. < 1294698106 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not < 1294698112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An utter guess. < 1294698116 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dno't want to join if I'm not supposed to < 1294698122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1294698133 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should ask the boss if its okay < 1294698136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get oklopol to tell you, he has oklopolic immunity < 1294698145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's no joke < 1294698235 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our administratafator has been a bit gone for the evening; my guess is some sort of debauchery. < 1294698279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You're the right-hand man, go tell j-invariant the address. < 1294698331 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and from those sugar canes you will be able to produce high-fructose corn syrup >:) < 1294698338 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, but I couldn't possibly, that'd be insubordination. < 1294698360 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Our administratafator has been a bit gone for the evening; my guess is some sort of debauchery. ← MATLAB debauchery? < 1294698362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Insubordinate! < 1294698381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So is there a scenester named SUGAR CANE who isn't in your pants either? < 1294698383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your sign needs changing. < 1294698392 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1294698399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also whiskey and creme brulee < 1294698399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just leave it as a protest :P < 1294698410 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe I'll just be all RETRO-reed. < 1294698412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh man, whiskey in Minecraft would be amazing. < 1294698425 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I was into reeds before they were sugar canes." < 1294698430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll, like, restore 70% of your health, but if you drink too much your vision starts going blurry and stuff. < 1294698434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And tilting around. < 1294698437 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you had reeds on vinyl? < 1294698457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had reeds before they sold out < 1294698468 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Reeds on Vinyl", sounds like a band. < 1294698494 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sounds like a band" sounds like a band. < 1294698500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: with the amount of things the internet has called good band names, we'd need like 1,000 times more bands than have ever existed to be created. < 1294698538 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"'Sounds like a band' sounds like a band" sounds like a band < 1294698573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My band will be called #1#="\"#1#\" sounds like a band". < 1294698577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Literally that. < 1294698583 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/band/band name/g < 1294698587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1294698590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First album will naturally be called Main Page. < 1294698596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because fuck Wikipedia! < 1294698819 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recalls there was a norwegian race horse named "Sugar Cane Hannover" < 1294698839 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hanover < 1294698861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the people who name horses are like people who name cats fun things, except on crack < 1294698871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, you start naming cats silly things < 1294698874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then when you get a job < 1294698875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and become a pro < 1294698877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you become a horse name < 1294698877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r < 1294698893 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :famous enough to have a no.wikipedia page < 1294698897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it with horse names, anyway? < 1294698911 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :born in sweden actually < 1294698952 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Followed by the horse formerly known as Horse." < 1294698975 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found that more hilarious than it was < 1294698984 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1294698985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if horse racing actually involved like < 1294698987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming jokes < 1294698990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd watch < 1294698999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But oh! Here comes My Other Car Is A Cdr! < 1294699036 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hits elliott with an element and a list < 1294699044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cons. < 1294699045 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll name my horse 🐎. < 1294699062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Name a horse after the Unicode snowman. < 1294699065 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone tell me if Firefly is non-crap. < 1294699078 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you think I'm capable of thinking of some stupid not-that-funny thing to say about car and cdr? < 1294699080 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't < 1294699082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: It's... Joss Whedon-y, isn't it? Said as someone who hasn't seen it. < 1294699084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: BIAS < 1294699085 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, I dunno < 1294699095 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, it isn't non-crap? < 1294699103 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the little I've seen, yes < 1294699105 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you mean the show < 1294699108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: I get the feeling there's more western there than scifi. < 1294699112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Space western", as they say. < 1294699114 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know people like Firefly < 1294699115 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean that it is, in fact, crap? < 1294699126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Name a horse the GLAGOLITIC CAPITAL LETTER SPIDERY HA. < 1294699129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Pronounced like that. < 1294699131 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that it was cancelled < 1294699131 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION applauds Sgeo_ for his research skills. < 1294699143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I THINK THEY MADE A MOVIE OUT OF IT < 1294699146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUYS? GUYS??? < 1294699151 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So wait, noöne has actually seen it? < 1294699159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :randall munroe likes it, which is always a bad sign < 1294699161 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well then, I see no harm in joining the crowd. < 1294699171 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he liked it pre-xkcdecay. < 1294699181 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Randall Munroe likes breathing. < 1294699192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Breathing is kind of a pain. < 1294699195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes. < 1294699201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Sure, but he also liked Python. < 1294699210 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Python! < 1294699212 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not breathing even more so < 1294699216 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Python is a necessary evil. < 1294699222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Is it? < 1294699232 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cries as his lingua fraca gets spit upon < 1294699251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python is a terrible language. < 1294699260 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, lazy people and idiots want to program. < 1294699272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Funny. I don't want them to. < 1294699299 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Dude, I'm going to change MY name to GLAGOLITIC CAPITAL LETTER SPIDERY HA < 1294699303 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, but it filled a gap in the market, so it was inevitable. < 1294699303 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And would you rather they used Perl? < 1294699323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: No, but ... intelligent people who like Python are odd. < 1294699326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I approev. < 1294699327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*approve. < 1294699332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: And they, strangely, exist. < 1294699335 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol! < 1294699350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol likes Python for, like, totally different reasons to everyone else. < 1294699374 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: *franca < 1294699385 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what reasons? < 1294699400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Well, not "clean code and comprehensive standard libraries" :-) < 1294699417 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you think I'm an idiot? < 1294699419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: don't be harsh, english isn't Sgeo_'s lingua fraca < 1294699427 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION lols < 1294699429 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because oklobrainese compiles easily to Python? < 1294699430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Not really, but I have the feeling you like Python for the wrong reasons. < 1294699433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: WHO KNOWS < 1294699446 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey i wasn't intending to start a fracas < 1294699457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ...you win :D < 1294699487 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY < 1294699527 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a language called HaXe < 1294699534 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND MY HAXE < 1294699545 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I can tell, the only reason people like it is its "portability" < 1294699554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1294699590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to start drinking more coffee. < 1294699658 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1294699724 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fancy's supposed to be able to target a bunch of stuff eventually < 1294699732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey j-invariant design my program < 1294699734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow < 1294699753 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-71.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1294699759 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that I look at http://www.fancy-lang.org/features/ again, it looks boring < 1294699773 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for the BDD thingy, which puts Scala's thing in mind < 1294699812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example-driven development is the only acceptable policy. < 1294699827 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1294699831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT < 1294699832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KIDDING < 1294699845 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still wants to know if it's TC < 1294699846 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1294699852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, Clue? < 1294699880 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ideally the language _specification_ should be example-driven, no? < 1294699882 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1294699890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: yes, it is < 1294699901 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. That's awesome. < 1294699903 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How? < 1294699905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh yes definitely, but unfortunately there's no other example-driven processors < 1294699915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: you can basically write simple imperative loops that use each other < 1294699921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's also an ski interpreter < 1294699925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and quicksort < 1294699926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soo < 1294699926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED < 1294699931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people would consider SKI enough < 1294699937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, you might not consider that so if, e.g., < 1294699940 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i guess it's hard when you don't have any examples < 1294699941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't express every turing machine as a unique program < 1294699954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, yes < 1294699958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can basically write code imperatively < 1294700088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1294700091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know tk here < 1294700186 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know of it. And that Python comes with libraries for it < 1294700204 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:55 < qfr> How am I supposed to develop software in Haskell if I can't even prepare my projects in UML?! It seems like an impossible task. < 1294700208 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHA < 1294700227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1294700230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they serious < 1294700234 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1294700322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: oh god, he is < 1294700345 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is amazing, like meeting a Mormon or something < 1294700357 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw everyone is ganging up on him < 1294700374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: except for the ones who are telling him UML can work ... lol < 1294700416 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF does UML have to do with Haskell? < 1294700428 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is UML some sort of imperative thingy? I thought it was flowchartiness < 1294700434 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I guess is imperative < 1294700448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's OO. < 1294700465 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1294700550 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://www.reddit.com/r/compsci/comments/ez93s/the_future_of_software_system_correctness/c1c7sdo < 1294700595 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: stupid guy, first comes out with this irrelevant halting problem crap then starts being all arrogant < 1294700646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1294700662 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1294700663 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the godel/turing/etc stuff < 1294700676 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, I got downvoted < 1294700677 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1294700679 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people just need to STFU about it < 1294700694 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah cool you just learned something new and interesting, NOT EVERYTHING IS A NAIL < 1294700700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant++ < 1294700726 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't we get people that just learned thermodynamics and join every fucking energy discussion with "YYEAH BUT YOU CANT CREATE INFINITE FREE ENERGY SO WHY BOTHER WITH WINDMILLS?" < 1294700739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote 22:55 < qfr> How am I supposed to develop software in Haskell if I can't even prepare my projects in UML?! It seems like an impossible task. HAHA [...] this is amazing, like meeting a Mormon or something < 1294700766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: because you don't have Thermo Engineering < 1294700768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: or Thermo Monkeys < 1294700790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo: ping :( < 1294700812 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :264) 22:55 < qfr> How am I supposed to develop software in Haskell if I can't even prepare my projects in UML?! It seems like an impossible task. HAHA [...] this is amazing, like meeting a Mormon or something < 1294700856 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the guy is fucking off the wall < 1294700863 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: like totally bonkers < 1294700868 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even keep up with what's going on < 1294700881 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the guy responding to me with a condescending tone < 1294700889 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: which guy < 1294700897 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tachi-kaze < 1294700901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/compsci/comments/ez93s/the_future_of_software_system_correctness/c1c7s0t < 1294700906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reply to that < 1294700923 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get the aversion to correctness < 1294700926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: i'm glad to see you've found the secret purpose of #esoteric, other than #minecraft < 1294700927 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually completely mad < 1294700930 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-71.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1294700931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is #behind-people's-backs < 1294700936 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm < 1294700940 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: you're godofpumpkins i guess? < 1294700946 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That just means we can't exactly decide when something halts or not <---- nobody cares < 1294700950 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yep :) < 1294701002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: oerjan is FAMOUS, he basically wrote half of the haskell 98 report* < 1294701006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*complete and utter hogwash < 1294701007 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/compsci/comments/ez93s/the_future_of_software_system_correctness/c1c7ks6 < 1294701011 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1294701014 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it upsets me that this comment has score 2 < 1294701016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: point copumpkin to that typo you fixed or whatever!! < 1294701018 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be -30 < 1294701020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your fame will never end < 1294701032 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: keep saying that in here and I'm sure it will be :) < 1294701039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did my bit!! HIVEMIND < 1294701041 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubt it < 1294701046 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION posts to twitter that it should be -30 < 1294701048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to go make stupid comments < 1294701055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: WE CAN DO THIS < 1294701056 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have a lot of dumb followers who do my bidding) < 1294701057 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well only actually downvote it if you agree with me: That his comment is totally irrelevant < 1294701059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we all work together! < 1294701064 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there were several and i don't have them memorized < 1294701068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: MORONS DON'T UNDERSTAND QUALIFIERS < 1294701093 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit now my z key is acting up < 1294701095 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think tachi-kaze has probably smoked a load of dope < 1294701102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit comex has a lot of twitter followers now < 1294701103 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing he says has anny connection to reality < 1294701105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :107,757... < 1294701107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember when he had like < 1294701107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 < 1294701109 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed :) < 1294701115 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex superstar! < 1294701117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn dude, getting all famous and hsit < 1294701118 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, copumpkin is in this channel < 1294701118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shit < 1294701121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1294701127 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: duh, I follow you around < 1294701129 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's comex? < 1294701133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: this Agora player! < 1294701137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D < 1294701139 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, actually I saw people mention it in #haskell(-blah?) < 1294701140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what he's known for < 1294701141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :playing Agora < 1294701143 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1294701144 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a player < 1294701148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay < 1294701150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EX-agora player < 1294701153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as of a few days ago :P < 1294701161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my statement will be correct again soon enough < 1294701164 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex is a playa < 1294701165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: I'm gonna go around tleling people < 1294701168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew comex before he was famous < 1294701170 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1294701173 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why so many followers? < 1294701179 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: superstar, and playa < 1294701181 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you never knew me before I was an Agora player < 1294701182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: he did the new jailbreakme.com iPhone crack < 1294701187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*jailbreak < 1294701187 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your statements contradict ;) < 1294701190 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cool < 1294701195 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that's not very new anymore < 1294701198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no < 1294701202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's what propelled you to INTERWEBS INFAMY < 1294701209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: i say new because, i remember using the old jailbreakme < 1294701212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the day i bought my iphone < 1294701214 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1294701215 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1294701215 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (I have a lot of dumb followers who do my bidding) <-- you do know that voting conspiracies are a bannable offense on reddit, right? < 1294701220 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I helped make that one :P < 1294701226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he can just say "omg this is so stupid" < 1294701231 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're not in Agora < 1294701235 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well luckily I don't do such conspiracies < 1294701237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: naw, Haskell can't do anything practical like that < 1294701243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop lying < 1294701246 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lol, that was pre-haskell :P < 1294701253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the old one < 1294701253 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I saw the light and lost interest in iphonez < 1294701275 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1294701276 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1294701279 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to go to bed < 1294701280 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as superstarish as comex, sadly < 1294701287 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not get anything done < 1294701287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had comex on vinyl < 1294701291 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sucks < 1294701294 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's play ircnomic < 1294701298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before he went platinum < 1294701301 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: don't sleep! < 1294701306 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleep is for the weak anyway < 1294701311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: heh, #ircnomic still redirects to ##nomic < 1294701312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT I CAN FIX THAT < 1294701321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grumble wooble grumble grumble cough < 1294701332 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION eats some orange chicken < 1294701348 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop ditsracting me < 1294701355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :risdacting < 1294701360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*risdracting < 1294701391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, how can i remove the redirect... < 1294701406 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought comex was famous for iPhone-related reasons before jailbreakme < 1294701407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1294701442 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: he had a sex tape < 1294701456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1294701464 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with emma watson < 1294701504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW DO YOU REMOVE A CHANNEL REDIRECT < 1294701507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the forces of wooble are acting against me < 1294701642 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: this fucking qfr is just an idiot trill < 1294701647 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm bored o fhim < 1294701648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: #ircnomic now open for business < 1294701654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't crowd around now < 1294701656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one at a time < 1294701703 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, I thought it was centuries before we learned the Trills' secrets < 1294701708 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*secret < 1294701724 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo < 1294701745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh, shush < 1294701751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: do you have a copy of the last ircnomic ruleset :D < 1294701755 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waht is a trill? < 1294701760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :star trek. < 1294701765 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1294701786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: well... get one? < 1294701809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: so have you started playing minecraft yet >:D < 1294701813 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want to progrma something really simple what is the issuse < 1294701817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: program what < 1294701828 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: just some really simple algorithms on polynomials < 1294701831 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: hell no < 1294701834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: do it then :D < 1294701842 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what language? < 1294701847 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried scheme, haskell and Coq they all fail < 1294701847 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: agda < 1294701849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: haskell? istr you did some stuff with it < 1294701853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and polynomialalalallal < 1294701854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1294701859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: agda is not a language for human consumption < 1294701860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or production < 1294701866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: it's only a matter of time before you're yelling expletives at Notch every day, btw < 1294701867 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I consume and produce it all the time < 1294701875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: you're a pumpkin < 1294701877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said human < 1294701878 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah I tried to write the same program in all languages, none of them are any good < 1294701879 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1294701888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: and maybe you do, but you certainly don't produce nontrivial proofs in it >:) < 1294701890 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should make my own language < 1294701892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's impossible! < 1294701896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: what was not good about it? < 1294701900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about haskell i mean < 1294701902 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: :( < 1294701909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: COQQQQQ < 1294701917 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: consider modular arithmetic data type < 1294701928 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you need to implement type level numbers to do it < 1294701932 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote that in two different ways in agda < 1294701935 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use unsafePerformIO < 1294701936 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both were painful < 1294701938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: use she :) < 1294701943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best language! < 1294701950 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes I did use she < 1294701957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: then you only have to implement nats ;P < 1294701957 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is she? < 1294701958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P < 1294701963 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but I don't do modular arithmetic but polynomials < 1294701971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: she's a thing. < 1294701977 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: she's a preprocessor for haskell < 1294701978 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the type level "thing" is not a natural but a polynomial < 1294701982 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I've started using for her other features, too < 1294701986 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just the autolifting of data < 1294701987 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it's a clusterfuck < 1294701998 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't do this in a reasonable way in haskuell < 1294701998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: just define a polynomial normally < 1294702003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and she will define the type-level version < 1294702004 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She's an it! < 1294702005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with that < 1294702008 0 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1294702011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: She's a SHE. < 1294702012 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, to a degree < 1294702014 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it does not work that way < 1294702020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: does for me :-D < 1294702020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1294702022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a good day ... < 1294702026 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she only lifts data constructors < 1294702029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true < 1294702032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who needs strong kinding < 1294702034 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if j-invariant wants to actually do something to the polynomial < 1294702039 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then he needs to write it himself < 1294702043 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: idk I just can't get stuff working it sucksf < 1294702047 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need proofs too < 1294702051 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you need a polynomial at the type level anyway? < 1294702056 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't program in haskell it's like "woah what if everything is wrong?" < 1294702065 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agda's getting a better compiler or two soon too < 1294702077 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Z[x]/(p(x)) < 1294702091 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1294702092 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1294702093 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait for epigram2 < 1294702096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1294702104 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEED < 1294702105 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MORE < 1294702106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the answer to everything < 1294702107 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LANGUAGES < 1294702109 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FEED ME < 1294702111 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what < 1294702119 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: or just use cochon < 1294702125 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything sucks: When epigram2 comes out I will find out something that sucks about it after a week < 1294702128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1294702130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: please say "i'm going to write my own language" < 1294702143 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, with observational type theory < 1294702143 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to write my own language < 1294702150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: YAAAAAAAY < 1294702154 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and easy reflection and so on < 1294702160 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who will help me design it < 1294702161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't tell Sgeo < 1294702165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: yeah who needs all that < 1294702167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: MEEEEEEE < 1294702173 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: don't forget substructural types (all sorts of them) < 1294702173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i suggest it have quotient types! < 1294702176 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and effect types < 1294702181 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: this is essential < 1294702184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who needs effects < 1294702184 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quotient types are easy with OTT < 1294702191 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about parametricity < 1294702196 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it is important < 1294702197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: but how do you avoid the extensional axiom of choice? < 1294702200 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: definitely separate forall and pi < 1294702201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1294702209 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pff < 1294702216 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I choose to not care about the AoC < 1294702226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: YOU CAN'T WELL-ORDER THE REALS DAMMIT < 1294702234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1294702238 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1294702239 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is well ordered < 1294702240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*o'connor's < 1294702246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: nuh uh! < 1294702248 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's loads of blog posts telling you how to count the reals out there < 1294702249 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"well ordered" is a set theoretic notion < 1294702251 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one put pi in the middle < 1294702254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :touche < 1294702255 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then laid them out in a grid < 1294702259 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then counted spirally! < 1294702260 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm < 1294702265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol @ pi in the middle < 1294702266 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what would well ordered mean in type theory? < 1294702276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1294702277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://r6.ca/blog/20050604T143800Z.html < 1294702278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :word of god < 1294702283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly you can't have quotient types < 1294702284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1294702294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait ... < 1294702304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can prove that you can well-order the reals in type theory + quotient types < 1294702309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... then what fucking program does that spit out?! < 1294702309 0 :luatre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ValueError: substring not found :( < 1294702313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up, luatre. < 1294702460 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we implement quotients in a type theory inside agda? < 1294702474 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :following e.g. Kipling < 1294702489 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Euphoria is supposed to be an "easy" language < 1294702492 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalms < 1294702510 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: we can with setoid-like things < 1294702517 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, just setoids < 1294702518 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no proper quotients < 1294702518 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://openeuphoria.org/wiki/view.wc?page=SampleCode < 1294702520 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1294702522 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION assassinates someone < 1294702533 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, check the OTT implementation in agda? < 1294702547 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1294702588 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I (1) sleep (2) write notes about this language that will probably never actually exist < 1294702604 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should do 1, but you will do 2 < 1294702624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: latter < 1294702643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i wanna help :D < 1294702676 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: you can follow conor's blog posts for the basic syntax and implementation < 1294702687 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of a core behind it) < 1294702687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant knows enough about Epigram i think :P < 1294702690 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I am not implementing epigram < 1294702694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man this python program is so ugly... < 1294702700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I was writing it in cled it'd be easy to navigate < 1294702703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny thing is, < 1294702704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cled < 1294702714 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's tricky to design a good AST that maintains invariants you want (especially the j- sort) < 1294702721 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and conor had a nice design on his blog < 1294702746 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: do you mean e-pig? < 1294702750 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1294702761 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, all self-hosting things start out that way, I think < 1294702807 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Clue should be written entirely in Clue. That makes no sense, but do it anyway < 1294702816 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I agre < 1294702855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: more chatting about your language! < 1294702862 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't really know category theory < 1294702871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: don't base it on categories then < 1294702880 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but they are the solution to all problems? < 1294702881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT AN INTRUIGING IDEA < 1294702887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: or ARE they!!!!!!!! < 1294702890 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet < 1294702891 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1294702905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: try and solve 80% of problems then :P < 1294702920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : self.fill_widget(self) < 1294702920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TypeError: fill_widget() takes exactly 1 argument (2 given) < 1294702920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1294702950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how tk just ignores errors, it's so cute < 1294703018 0 :rom9com!~Rom@men75-6-82-230-14-45.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1294703046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck ... oh < 1294703048 0 :jesus_muppet!~jesus@soy95-6-88-168-57-135.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1294703109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: gimme a unicode character that looks like a hole, or a box, or a cross or something < 1294703132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mr. unicode < 1294703134 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :∘ < 1294703136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(your new name) < 1294703143 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1294703145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: what is that :D < 1294703177 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when did I become mr unicode? :( < 1294703211 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use compose key < 1294703234 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ōºō°øô < 1294703241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow it works ... kinda < 1294703251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a not really working way < 1294703318 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is really stressful < 1294703476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: what is < 1294703500 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't get anything important done :| < 1294703504 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't have the tools < 1294703515 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't have the tools to make the tools etc. < 1294703562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: you have the latter surely < 1294703568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is good for implementing languages :P < 1294703654 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't "get" haskell < 1294703662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: there's nothing to get < 1294703666 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how those guys can do anything with it < 1294703675 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qntm.org/tesla DARNIT < 1294703701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: by testing code rather than proving it correct < 1294703708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what < 1294703714 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1294703905 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll try learning OCaml again < 1294703915 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, reading about < 1294703959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: so tell me about your lang :P