00:00:06 <Vorpal> elliott, it seems like it decided to take a vacation
00:00:53 <elliott> pikhq: Vorpal: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:3ddc0ff171950d3ad4f3e9c4c265b87f153803c3&dn=foo.avi
00:01:15 <elliott> Suggest that you download Ubuntu 10.10 32-bit normal installer CD so we find each other.
00:01:31 <elliott> http://releases.ubuntu.com/maverick/ubuntu-10.10-desktop-i386.iso.torrent
00:01:47 -!- olsner has joined.
00:02:45 <Vorpal> elliott, huh, more than half on that torrent use ipv6!
00:02:56 <Vorpal> well more than half in my list
00:02:58 <elliott> Vorpal: You did add that magnet link right? :P
00:03:04 <Ilari> Doesn't most clients also have "peer with this IP" functionality?
00:03:17 <Vorpal> elliott, I meant the other one
00:03:27 <Vorpal> elliott, ................................
00:03:35 <elliott> tell transmission to use the open port
00:04:07 <Vorpal> elliott, tell me when to start magnet again
00:07:28 <Vorpal> elliott, no luck so far
00:07:45 <elliott> Fuck this, I'm going to distribute it via netcat.
00:08:01 <pikhq> Just give it a tracker...
00:08:51 <Vorpal> elliott, just give me an IP to manually add as peer
00:09:13 * pikhq doesn't think Transmission can do that.
00:09:28 <Vorpal> pikhq, and I my ports done properly
00:09:41 <pikhq> Maybe Vorpal getting in on it will get me onto the tiny swarm.
00:10:28 <Vorpal> elliott, don't see you in the list?
00:10:39 <elliott> What list are you talking about?
00:10:47 <Vorpal> elliott, that is the list I need to add you in
00:10:52 <Vorpal> elliott, the ubuntu one
00:10:58 <Vorpal> elliott, can't add to a non-torrent
00:10:58 <elliott> Oh... why not add me in the foo.avi one
00:11:07 <Vorpal> elliott, because it is still magnet only
00:11:25 <Vorpal> elliott, it hasn't even found the data for the magnet yet!
00:11:32 <elliott> OK, re-added myself to Ubuntu.
00:12:06 <elliott> HTML5 has been renamed ... to HTML. /Now/ I'm confused.
00:12:23 <elliott> Ah: "In 2009 we announced that the HTML5 specification at the WHATWG was progressing to Last Call. The plan at the time was to finish the specification this year and publish a snapshot of "HTML5" in 2012. However, shortly after that we realised that the demand for new features in HTML remained high, and so we would have to continue maintaining HTML and adding features to it before we could call "HTML5" complete, and as a result we moved to a new
00:12:23 <elliott> development model, where the technology is not versioned and instead we just have a living document that defines the technology as it evolves."
00:12:27 * pikhq suspects that elliott doesn't have DHT working right.
00:12:44 <elliott> pikhq: My ports're forwarded.
00:12:54 <pikhq> Wait, CAN HAS CONNECTION TO ELLIOTT.
00:13:07 <elliott> Then I can cancel the Ubuntu torrent.
00:13:14 <elliott> Vorpal: LOOK AT PIKHQ AND SHARE IN HIS CONNECTION
00:13:22 <Vorpal> elliott, can I get his IP then?
00:13:45 <elliott> Port is presumably default.
00:13:52 <pikhq> 174.22.146.230, port 51413.
00:14:16 <Vorpal> well sooner or later it will work
00:14:58 * pikhq goes back on the Ubuntu swarm. Try now.
00:15:05 <Ilari> What's that foo.avi about?
00:15:20 <elliott> Ilari: It's a video of me failing at exploding lots of TNT in Minecraft badly :P
00:15:44 <Vorpal> <Vorpal> well sooner or later it will work
00:15:47 <elliott> But then I go underwater and let myself lose all my air and yet still suffer no damage thanks to my hacked armour, and that is the dramatic scene on which the video ends.
00:15:56 <olsner> anything referred to only as <filename>.avi always sounds like a relative to swap.avi
00:15:58 <pikhq> Even adding me as a peer?
00:16:09 <olsner> (not a good association fwiw)
00:16:15 <elliott> olsner: why weren't you around when SWAP.avi was relevant so I wasn't now known as THAT SCAT GUY???
00:16:39 <elliott> But oklopol was discussing scat porn.
00:17:00 <olsner> not even I managed to watch all of swap.avi
00:17:01 <pikhq> Well fuck it, then. Off the Ubuntu swarm, and let's see if Vorpal gets to peer.
00:17:42 <elliott> Vorpal: do you want the .torrent
00:17:44 <elliott> that would be more practical
00:18:05 <elliott> how do I export a torrent file from transmission...
00:18:15 <Vorpal> elliott, don't know. Easy from kTorrent of course :P
00:18:41 <elliott> pikhq: u disconnected y u hate me so much
00:18:52 <Vorpal> elliott, sure I get you don't like the cluttered feature-ladden kTorrent but still
00:18:54 <pikhq> elliott: Did you create it with the "new torrent" thing? If so, you saved it somewhere.
00:19:08 <elliott> pikhq: I DID but i don't know where
00:19:16 <elliott> let's try dcc, dcc is like
00:19:19 <elliott> i'm going to dcc you a torrent file
00:19:24 <Vorpal> elliott, uh firewall not set up for that here
00:19:33 <elliott> you get it uuencoded then, is that ok?
00:19:37 <Vorpal> elliott, and my modem seems broken atm
00:19:41 <Vorpal> elliott, sure. Or yencode
00:19:58 <Vorpal> elliott, on what gorunds?
00:20:13 <elliott> Vorpal: http://www.faerber.muc.de/temp/20020304-yenc-harmful.html
00:20:52 <elliott> Vorpal: http://www.exit109.com/~jeremy/news/yenc.html
00:21:10 <Gregor> I have now gotten two bursar notices in a row telling me "Amount Due --- [ $0.00 ]"
00:21:31 <elliott> Vorpal: http://sprunge.us/SSRi
00:22:29 <Vorpal> elliott, or maybe. I haven't got it yet
00:22:37 <Vorpal> elliott, what about base64
00:22:42 <elliott> so i bet you are downloading it
00:22:48 <Vorpal> elliott, oh then it might be getting magnet from you
00:23:03 <Vorpal> elliott, because I haven't yet got the damn thing
00:23:45 <elliott> I'm giving foo.avi to some random guy.
00:23:49 <Vorpal> elliott, SO CAN I GET IT AS base64
00:23:52 <elliott> Sorry for revealing your icky IPv4 IP.
00:23:56 <Vorpal> elliott, I CAN'T FIND UUDECODE!
00:24:12 <elliott> Ilari: I forgot I linked it in here :P
00:24:18 <Ilari> Well, you can get if you know how to decode the IP address in hostmask...
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00:24:40 <elliott> Vorpal: http://sprunge.us/FTjZ
00:25:52 <elliott> Ilari: Interestingly your connection to me isn't encrypted ... and also pikhq is getting a lot more data than you are.
00:26:00 <elliott> Oh, I think uTorrent is set to prefer encrypted peers.
00:26:10 <pikhq> elliott: I'm uploading a lot to Ilari.
00:26:20 <elliott> Ah, I won't bother trying to fix it then :P
00:27:02 <Vorpal> pikhq, had to add ips manually
00:27:14 <Ilari> Might have something to do with the fact that I have UDP parts (e.s.p. PEX) disabled because they use too much bandwidth...
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00:28:03 <pikhq> Ilari: You disabled peer exchange?
00:28:05 <elliott> Ilari: That is, er, unlikely to help :-D
00:28:31 <elliott> Isn't it "esp."? Unless you mean "extra superlative penguins".
00:28:37 <pikhq> elliott: Transport protocol over UDP that some torrent clients implement.
00:28:51 <Vorpal> pikhq, it is more friendly to other internet traffic iirc
00:29:02 <Vorpal> as in, rate limiting and such
00:29:14 <Ilari> I have 1596 active torrents at the moment. PEX traffic for them would be huge.
00:29:34 <elliott> I physically cannot imagine downloading that many torrents.
00:29:36 <pikhq> Ilari: I think that's the least of your problems.
00:29:57 <Ilari> elliott: All (1596)
00:30:13 <elliott> Maybe if you're a gigantic porn addict and need a huge buffer because you have a ridiculously slow internet connection, 1596 torrents would be possible...
00:30:16 <Vorpal> idea: google to index torrents
00:30:35 <Ilari> (and no, those videos aren't porn)
00:30:38 <elliott> Vorpal: They already do. Kinda. In that they index tracker sites.
00:30:55 <elliott> Ilari: Then I have absolutely no idea :P
00:31:00 <Vorpal> elliott, well yeah I meant more directly. Like google image search, google whatever search and so on
00:31:51 <Vorpal> hm I'm uploading way more than I'm downloading from each of pikhq and Ilari
00:32:08 <Ilari> Heh... If one uses torrent queueing, one can't have upload limit larger than 999 in this client...
00:32:12 <Vorpal> I mean, 12 vs. 46 kBps to you Ilari
00:32:31 <Vorpal> Ilari, you need to devote more bw to this
00:33:37 <pikhq> Ilari: Also, you realise that peer exchange is actually designed to be really low bandwidth, right?
00:34:11 <Ilari> Oh, and the amount of video in that that torrent collection is something like 685 hours...
00:34:17 <pikhq> Ilari: There can be no more than 50 added peers and 50 removed peers in a given PEX message, and PEX messages won't be sent more frequently than once a minute.
00:34:55 <Ilari> In packet traces, I saw things like 50+ UDP messages associated with Bittorrent PER SECOND.
00:35:03 <elliott> Ilari: How did you come to be downloading 1500 torrents at once...
00:35:42 <Vorpal> elliott, maybe he is seeding some?
00:35:55 <Ilari> Yeah, 1595 of those are being seeded.
00:36:19 <pikhq> Ilari: Oooooh, kilobit per second.
00:36:29 <Vorpal> elliott, you bandwidth. It sucks.
00:36:32 <pikhq> Ilari: Anyways, your client is braindamaged, apparently.
00:36:43 <elliott> My bandwidth is doing other things too, and also prioritising pikhq massively
00:36:51 <elliott> Oh wait pikhq is gone now.
00:36:59 <elliott> Well enjoy your bandwidth, bastard.
00:37:13 <Vorpal> elliott, mine is done now
00:37:22 <elliott> Vorpal: It's the most exciting video you'll watch all year.
00:37:25 <Vorpal> elliott, however you must have been prioritising Ilari?
00:37:32 <Ilari> I once shut down the torrent client. Kernel was sending tens of kilobytes of second worth of ICMP unreachables for the UDP traffic (and that continued tens of minutes)...
00:37:32 <elliott> Ilari got almost no pipe :P
00:37:41 <elliott> Ilari: TENS of KILOBYTES? :P
00:37:58 <Vorpal> elliott, no sound AT ALL?
00:38:10 <elliott> My MC is, as I said, stuck in mute, and I couldn't get microphone recording working.
00:38:24 <elliott> Otherwise you'd hear my expressing JUST HOW GIGANTIC THIS CUBE OF TNT IS
00:38:24 <olsner> TENS OF KILOBYTES? that's like FIFTHS OF KILOWORDS
00:38:35 <Vorpal> elliott, issue I think is that not all the chunks can be loaded at once here
00:38:40 <olsner> or *a couple* of kilowords
00:38:47 <elliott> Vorpal: Irrelevant, it doesn't even do anything in one chunk :P
00:38:54 <Vorpal> <elliott> My MC is, as I said, stuck in mute, and I couldn't get microphone recording working. <-- how is it stuck
00:39:05 <elliott> When I turn the volume up it crashes because of Notch quality engineering.
00:39:15 <Ilari> 50+ bittorrent PEX messages per second use a lot of bandwidth...
00:39:28 <elliott> pikhq: ARE YOU WATCHINGT OO
00:40:42 <nooga> someone should really reimplement this nice game
00:40:57 <elliott> They have, and the reimplementations suck
00:41:09 <Vorpal> elliott, wait, I never saw you using that editor in the video. What happened there?
00:41:12 <elliott> We're too used to the game's mouth feel by now :P
00:41:17 <elliott> Vorpal: I cut off the video while I did the editing.
00:41:24 <elliott> It's when I switched to the terminal and suddenly tons of messages appeared in IRC :P
00:41:36 <elliott> It's boring enough without /that/ bit of tedium.
00:41:57 <pikhq> elliott: Dude, primed TNT succumbs to gravity.
00:42:22 <Ilari> How many blocks of TNT is there????
00:42:27 <elliott> But pikhq's point is very good.
00:42:32 <elliott> NEVERTHELESS, the game crashes just working out gravity, it seems.
00:42:39 <elliott> Ilari: 5.5 million or so IIRC
00:43:24 <elliott> pikhq: I feel kinda stupid now X-D ... but still, it crashed all the same later on.
00:43:30 -!- amca has quit (Excess Flood).
00:43:32 <elliott> So I wouldn't have been able to get anything interesting even if I had solidified the ground.
00:44:07 -!- amca has joined.
00:44:12 <elliott> pikhq: SO HAVE YOU BOUGHT THE GAME YET
00:44:20 <pikhq> elliott: NO EXPENDABLE INCOME YET
00:44:34 <Vorpal> elliott, hah it fell in the water first XD
00:44:39 <elliott> Vorpal: I'M NOT CLEVER OKAY
00:45:01 <elliott> In retrospect, the first half of the video is hilariously stupid :P
00:45:15 <Vorpal> `addquote <elliott> Vorpal: I'M NOT CLEVER OKAY
00:45:23 <Vorpal> elliott, yes that shelter is very wtf too
00:45:24 <HackEgo> 271) <elliott> Vorpal: I'M NOT CLEVER OKAY
00:45:30 <Vorpal> elliott, you protected the terrain behind you
00:45:37 <elliott> Vorpal: Did you see when I accidentally blocked it up and I looked up and down going "wut" :D
00:45:42 <elliott> and then extended it badly
00:47:53 <elliott> Vorpal: Have you ever watched a more exciting video?
00:48:02 <elliott> The bit where I look at the file size of the video I'm recording is nicely meta :P
00:49:24 <Vorpal> elliott, .avi fails at seeking
00:49:40 <Vorpal> elliott, I needed to re-watch one
00:49:48 <Vorpal> elliott, it was so PRECIOUS
00:50:08 <Vorpal> elliott, yes I now know your mc password is 7 letters :P
00:50:22 <elliott> That's my password for everything, good thing MC doesn't use plaintext :P
00:50:40 <elliott> (I ought to use a password manager with a better master password...ought to...I will...sometime...I swear...probably...)
00:50:51 <elliott> Good thing I don't own or do anything of interest
00:50:54 <pikhq> elliott: BTW, should've muxed into mkv or something.
00:50:59 <elliott> pikhq: mencoder default :P
00:51:02 <pikhq> AVI has uber-overhead.
00:51:10 <elliott> Yah, it also has a blank MP3 audio track I think.
00:51:13 <pikhq> Just mkvmerge after the fact.
00:51:17 <Vorpal> elliott, what is with the mouse going in circles at some point?
00:51:27 <elliott> Vorpal: That's me making sure the video isn't BORING AND STILL.
00:51:50 <elliott> That part where it freezes near the end is where I switched to a vt to kill java :P
00:51:51 <Vorpal> elliott, next project: detonate in two minecraft instances at once
00:51:59 <elliott> Oh no wait, I didn't, it just crashed
00:52:22 <Vorpal> elliott, killall -9 java from a terminal window?
00:52:31 <elliott> Nope, I just waited until it ran out of heap space :P
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00:53:13 <elliott> The ending is super-dramatic.
00:53:40 <Vorpal> elliott, this will be fun. That constant notification window
00:53:44 <Vorpal> elliott, don't you think
00:54:14 <elliott> Vorpal: What are you talking about :P
00:54:25 <Vorpal> elliott, it pops up notification in corner
00:55:59 <pikhq> elliott: Like an electron!
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00:57:45 <Ilari> Probably not quite designed to explode 5 million cubic meters of dynamite at once...
01:00:15 <elliott> It wouldn't be at once, it'd be staggered :P
01:00:28 <elliott> In fact, I think that all the ones after the first would probably detonate underwater... or close to it at least.
01:02:25 <nooga> elliott: about passwords: almost every company i used to work for uses passwords in format <company name><year> for EVERYTHING
01:02:40 <Ilari> That amounts of dynamite would have explosive power in megaton range... :->
01:03:21 <nooga> probably one would get access in at leat 50% cases without even guessing
01:03:25 <elliott> Ilari: IT'S CLEARLY MARKED TNT
01:04:14 <nooga> are youguys talking about some video?
01:04:19 <nooga> with this tnt i mean
01:04:29 <elliott> get it from pikhq or Vorpal, i'm not seeding any more :P
01:04:38 <elliott> nooga: it's the most exciting video you will ever watch
01:05:01 <Ilari> But doesn't it look more like dynamite than TNT?
01:05:08 <Ilari> (aside from the markings)
01:05:59 <elliott> Ilari: And you make it out of gunpowder.
01:07:44 <olsner> http://www.quickmeme.com/Lame-Pun-Coon/
01:07:57 <olsner> too late must sleep :(
01:08:54 <Ilari> Approximate mass composition of TNT by element: 42% oxygen, 37% carbon, 19% nitrogen, 2% hydrogen. No sulfur in there.
01:09:00 <elliott> Ilari: you forgot dynamite!
01:09:09 <Vorpal> <elliott> get it from pikhq or Vorpal, i'm not seeding any more :P <-- I'm seeding to 1.0
01:09:23 <elliott> that raccoon is too cute :|
01:09:28 <elliott> Vorpal: what a good little torrenter!
01:09:31 <olsner> the puns are just puntastic too
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01:10:50 <olsner> at least I now have the complete collection of castle episodes, just in case I end up staying up a few more hours
01:11:39 <elliott> olsner: which is why you want to hear about sg yes?
01:12:18 <olsner> can't you put that in a paste or something so I don't have to hear all the yapping *about* talking about sg and can skip directly to the contents?
01:13:37 <elliott> olsner: oh i can tell you but only if you pledge FULL DEVOTED ATTENTION
01:15:11 <Ilari> And this one article says IANA has already allocated... That would mean they are currently writing out a press release (since I haven't seen any indication they have done so)?
01:19:02 <Ilari> Or then they do the usual thing with big news: Announce them Friday afternoon...
01:19:22 <Ilari> (banks always fail on Fridays)
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01:44:10 <elliott> http://twitter.com/angrydeveloper this is my favourite
01:44:32 <elliott> "(about the devs of a certain widely used piece of software) They are on my list with Rick Berman and that fuckwit who dreamt up javascript."
01:44:35 <elliott> offensive to both Sgeo and Gregor
01:45:47 <Gregor> When they guy's icon is trollface, I know to look elseward :P
01:46:20 <Ilari> javascript? More like javashit...
01:46:33 <elliott> Gregor: It's run by his cow-orkers, apparently.
01:46:38 <elliott> He doesn't know about it :P
01:46:51 <elliott> Ilari: Prepare for Gregor's wrath.
01:47:22 <Gregor> Why didn't Unicode 6 add a TROLL FACE character.
01:47:29 <Gregor> s/character/codepoint/
01:47:57 <elliott> Gregor: That is the best idea.
01:48:17 <Gregor> If they added friggin' LOVE HOTEL, they should have added TROLL FACE
01:48:33 <elliott> Gregor: They just imported emojis, didn't they?
01:48:42 <elliott> Remember, Unicode's primary method of growth is absorbing other encodings :P
01:49:07 <Gregor> elliott: Does that include GOAT and LOVE HOTEL? X-P
01:49:24 <elliott> Gregor: Dude, emoji = japs.
01:49:34 <elliott> Are you really surprised they have an icon for it? :P
01:49:49 <elliott> http://inner.geek.nz/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/iphone-emoji1.png <-- find love hotel yourself
01:49:58 <elliott> Yep, in bottom-left somewhere
01:50:23 <elliott> Hundreds of Emoji characters were encoded in the Unicode Standard in version 6.0 released in October 2010 (and in the related international standard ISO/IEC 10646). The additions, originally requested by Google (Kat Momoi, Mark Davis, and Markus Scherer wrote the first draft for consideration by the Unicode Technical Committee in August 2007) and Apple Inc. (whose Yasuo Kida and Peter Edberg joined the first official UTC proposal for 607 characte
01:50:23 <elliott> rs as coauthors in January 2009), went through a long series of commenting by members of the Unicode Consortium and national standardization bodies of various countries participating in ISO/IEC JTC1/SC2/WG2, especially the United States, Germany, Ireland (led by Michael Everson), and Japan.
01:50:23 <elliott> It is hard to count the final number of actual emoji characters encoded in this specific update of the Unicode standard, because various characters were already encoded in previous versions, and lots of new characters (especially symbols for maps and European signs) were added during the consensus-building process. The new symbols were encoded in seven different blocks (some newly created), and there exists a Unicode data file called EmojiSources
01:50:27 <elliott> .txt[1] that includes mappings to and from the Japanese vendors' legacy character sets. It should be noted that some emoji characters were encoded (or were already encodable) as a sequence of Unicode characters, not single characters.
01:50:43 <pikhq> Gregor: Yes, LOVE HOTEL is in the emoji block, and that is there soley for the sake of Japan.
01:53:46 <Gregor> How does one petition Unicode to add TROLL FACE ...
01:56:44 * pikhq pulls up the FCC's form for reporting an illegal telemarketing call to a cell phone.
01:56:47 <pikhq> Fucking local newspaper.
01:57:22 <elliott> I, Gregor Richards, Microsoft representative, demand you add TROLL FACE.
01:58:04 <elliott> Gregor: Propose it to http://www.evertype.com/standards/csur/ instead.
01:58:08 <elliott> You might actually get it in :P
01:58:24 <elliott> Gregor: Include a bunch of other F7U12 icons too, so it counts as a "script"
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02:58:56 <plaidguy> I theoretically may be getting near a quantum computer this summer, and thus wanted to see if lament's quantum brainfuck interpreter still existed anywhere
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03:03:18 <pikhq> Holy fuck holy fuck holy *fuck* it's cold.
03:04:17 <Gregor> I exist only as an out-of-control cron job at Freenode.
03:04:29 <pikhq> According to http://weather.gov/, -9 °C (16 °F)
03:05:06 <pikhq> Wind chill of -18 °C (-1 °F).
03:06:57 <pikhq> Ilari: Hmm. Any news regarding IANA at all?
03:07:28 <pikhq> I mean, gaaah. Surely the final allocation should be happening any minute now.
03:09:21 <Ilari> At least address space registry hasn't been updated... And the counter at inetcore still shows 7 blocks...
03:20:50 <Sgeo> O'Brien Must Suffer!
03:41:19 <pikhq> Wow... "Final Fantasy Versus XIII". Anyone want to guess how much connection it has to Final Fantasy XIII?
03:42:26 <pikhq> Unless you guessed "none at all", you're very wrong.
03:44:13 <Sgeo> What if I didn't bother to guess?
03:44:30 <pikhq> Then you're neither right nor wrong.
03:44:57 <plaidguy> pikhq: yay the game that only exists in trailers!
03:48:31 <pikhq> plaidguy: Am I allowed to look forward to a game being done by a group of people that actually *make good games*?
03:49:14 <plaidguy> pikhq: I'd say yes if I wasn't 8 hours and 1/2 through FF13
03:49:50 <pikhq> plaidguy: FFvsXIII is coming courtesy of basically everyone that brought you Kingdom Hearts.
03:50:08 <pikhq> plaidguy: Rather than the abortion that is FFXIII, brought to you by the people who brought you FFX-2.
03:52:49 <plaidguy> pikhq: it's the reason I got the ps3
03:53:01 <plaidguy> when I heard that it was exclusive
03:53:06 <pikhq> plaidguy: You... Got a PS3 for FFXIII? You poor soul.
03:53:51 <plaidguy> the later being far superior to prototype
03:54:12 <plaidguy> though I'm just waiting for Deus Ex 3 at this point
03:54:37 * pikhq is looking forward to Catherine (by Atlus)...
03:55:34 <pikhq> What, I like Atlus.
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03:56:37 <plaidguy> it sounds like japanified amnesia >_>
03:57:47 <pikhq> That's certainly an *odd* complaint.
03:58:49 <plaidguy> but the erotic bit doesn't really help the game
03:59:55 <pikhq> I'm pretty confident they'll not fuck it up. But you never know, they could actually make a bad game...
04:00:45 <plaidguy> I'm too cynical about the industry
04:04:11 <pikhq> Anyways, even if it is a total stinker the sound track will almost certainly be worth it.
04:13:09 -!- Gregor has set topic: PACHELBEL-FLAVORED WEETABIX SUCK | logs: http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ (formatted); http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D (unformatted).
04:14:18 <pikhq> Gregor: All flavors of Weetabix suck.
04:14:41 <Gregor> Yeah, but this one tastes like a corpse that was exhumed in secret for the dubious reason of flavoring a breakfast food.
04:15:27 <pikhq> Okay, true, that would suck more than most.
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04:44:34 <Sgeo> Protip: Do not follow the Ioke/Seph guy on Twitter
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05:31:22 * Sgeo relearns of Fancy
05:31:27 <Sgeo> Maybe it's not as boring as I imagined
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06:45:46 <pikhq> So, I've got my Rockbox'd MP3 player plugged into my computer right now.
06:46:19 <pikhq> As it turns out, doing that makes it actually act as a USB multimedia keypad.
06:46:31 <pikhq> I'm using my MP3 player to control Quod Libet.
07:29:04 <myndzi\> hot damn, didn't know that
07:29:13 <myndzi\> what version of rockbox though?
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07:29:28 <myndzi> i rolled mine back because of some annoying bugs in the last stable release i tried
07:29:52 <myndzi> also i really wish one-click queue/insert would make it into the main release
07:37:41 <pikhq> May have worked in the previous as well.
07:37:52 <pikhq> I just noticed by accident.
07:38:05 <pikhq> (hit "pause" on the thing by accident, and went "WTF!")
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08:05:20 <Sgeo> There are people who have trouble with Scala's co and contravariance?
08:05:31 <Sgeo> http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/2808
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08:32:07 <Ilari> Oh, there are 1598 now... :-)
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08:48:27 <pikhq> "Today's IANA depletion estimate: yesterday."
08:48:50 <pikhq> Yeah, they could very well be holding out until Friday to announce.
08:55:31 <Ilari> Houston estimate is February 2nd...
08:55:57 <Ilari> But I doubt that is just allocation processing delay...
08:58:32 <pikhq> What, waiting for 1 /8 left or something?
09:00:20 <Ilari> I think the request for address space is already sent (I do not know when or how long it usually takes to process) and is now stuck in IANA for some reason...
09:01:36 <pikhq> If it's stuck in IANA, then almost certainly for the sake of PR.
09:02:08 <Ilari> APNIC pool seems to be the the second of all RIR pools (second to only AfriNIC)...
09:02:58 <pikhq> "Second" by what sorting metric?
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09:09:47 <Ilari> Which is bit scary, as APNIC is way more active in distributing space than any other RIR (in fact, it is about as active as the rest _combined_).
09:13:27 <Ilari> Listned some talks about IPv6. In one panel Arin CEO remarked that we don
09:13:58 <Ilari> Listned some talks about IPv6. In one panel Arin CEO remarked that we don't want IPv6 depletion (in something like 100 years time) and thus the allocation policies should be sane...
09:16:27 <Ilari> Oh and that relative share of allocations (~50%) is growing...
09:17:53 <Ilari> (well, likely at least until APNIC declares depletion phase 3, at IANA depletion + 1x/8 remaining).
09:19:40 <Ilari> Oh, and another problem of IPv4 depletion: Routing table growth.
09:21:00 <pikhq> Yeah, the routing table is pretty snarly as-is, and will probably only get worse if there's any notable IPv4 address market.
09:21:58 <Ilari> In those talks someone said something like that IPv4 DFZ is about 300k entries now, and could grow to about 3M entries...
09:23:07 <Ilari> Which basically needs the beefiest routers available...
09:29:42 <fizzie> Oh, it's already at 300k? It was something like 100k not long (ie. a decade?) ago.
09:38:21 <Ilari> And with stuff like that, there apparently are some that want to kill off IPv4...
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09:41:38 <Ilari> Hurr... RIPE has also allocated some IPv4 /29s(!).
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09:43:26 <Ilari> That's like 6 usable addresses...
09:47:24 <Ilari> (but good luck getting them routed, unless you are a Very Important Customer).
09:54:48 <Ilari> Ways to make IPv4 seem bad: Underprovision the GCN boxes...
09:56:53 <Ilari> Oh, and screw up geolocation for GCN boxes also works...
09:59:29 <Ilari> There are companies that care VERY much about the latency/speed of their sites to the end user.
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10:10:43 <Ilari> There currently seems to be something like 110k IPv4 allocations/delegations (for IPv6, roughly 7k).
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10:48:41 <cheater00> why are we talking about something as boring as ip
10:48:54 <cheater00> has this channel really gone to hell?
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11:54:10 <Ilari> Well, IP is the basis of the Internet...
11:54:59 <fizzie> The Internet, how boring. What's that good for, anyway?
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15:10:54 <elliott> 03:04:00 <plaidguy> newcomer
15:10:54 <elliott> 03:04:05 <plaidguy> name's josh
15:10:54 <elliott> 03:05:04 <plaidguy> I theoretically may be getting near a quantum computer this summer, and thus wanted to see if lament's quantum brainfuck interpreter still existed anywhere
15:11:02 <elliott> maybe he's going to work at d-wave
15:13:25 <elliott> 04:50:45 <Sgeo> Protip: Do not follow the Ioke/Seph guy on Twitter
15:13:30 <elliott> Sgeo: What's wrong with Ola Bini
15:13:45 <elliott> I KNEW HE EXISTED BEFORE HE WAS IOKE FAMOUS ZOMGGGGGGGGGGGGG i'm so hipster
15:15:53 <elliott> 10:55:04 <cheater00> why are we talking about something as boring as ip
15:15:53 <elliott> 10:55:16 <cheater00> has this channel really gone to hell?
15:16:11 <elliott> at this point in time it might be worth considering that _you're_ the boring guy who never talks about anything interesting, not us
15:19:42 <Tritonio> about the brainfuck bugs game: should the "api" to control the bug contain certain cells on the tape or just the i/o commands?
15:20:31 <Tritonio> so in most cases two outputs should be written for the bug to do something
15:20:47 <elliott> Tritonio: I'd prefer a modified language than overloading IO.
15:21:11 <Tritonio> really? a supetset of brainfuck?
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15:21:22 <elliott> Remove the IO commands, add a couple of commands for your game.
15:21:25 <elliott> (Although note that commands that look at anything other than the value of the current cell are bad BF.)
15:21:41 <elliott> (e.g., a command shouldn't look at "current cell and one to the right"... so it might be a pain to keep the language BFy)
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15:22:05 <elliott> Oh, that was just a random number.
15:22:12 <Tritonio> something like output:move followed by output:west
15:22:22 <elliott> Tritonio: Instead, have "nesw" instructions.
15:22:41 <elliott> Much more elegant (and also you don't have the problem of "but what about output that doesn't fit one of the commands?" and the like)
15:22:54 <elliott> Anyway removing IO and adding commands is the approach of FukYorBrane, the premier CoreWars clone for brainfuck (indeed, the only one :P)
15:23:01 <Tritonio> i was thinking about a m(ove) command that moves to the direction that the current cell points too...
15:23:02 <quintopia> and just havd turn left and turn right
15:23:40 <elliott> Tritonio: Erm, what direction is 124?
15:23:45 <Tritonio> ok then... a few more commands that is...
15:23:52 <quintopia> although i think i like elliott's plan slightly better
15:23:54 <elliott> Tritonio: brainfuck programs shouldn't have any runtime errors
15:24:05 <elliott> that's like having , error out on EOF :)
15:24:09 <Tritonio> no error. it will be silently ignores.
15:24:19 <quintopia> because it shouldn't take different amounts of work to turn different directions
15:24:29 <elliott> hmmm... I'd still prefer nesw :P especially as you have to do a conditional to change direction according to an algorithm
15:24:32 <elliott> quintopia: oh, that's a very good point
15:24:37 <elliott> since presumably the BF programs will be cycle-locked to each other
15:24:41 <quintopia> how about (t)urn that turns left on 0 and right on 1
15:25:15 <Tritonio> quintopia: elliott's approach will make it harder to keep a steady direction based on some factor. my way you can use the move command after you have finished the making of the direction decision.
15:25:41 <Tritonio> the turn command would be nice too
15:26:02 <elliott> * because it looks like a bunch of directional arrows if you zoom in
15:26:16 <elliott> ** makes you face backwards from where you were
15:26:37 <elliott> quintopia: make turn always go right?
15:26:50 <fizzie> Or you could do lrfb, for left/right/forward/back, all Logo-like.
15:27:05 <elliott> fizzie: Letters are for comments :P
15:27:29 <fizzie> In that case, {}^ and, uh, _.
15:27:35 <Tritonio> wait wait wait. the main question is: do we want the commands to take the current cell as an argument?
15:27:43 <quintopia> elliott: then it would take 3 times as long to turn left. which is dumb
15:28:01 <elliott> Tritonio: I don't think so
15:28:09 <elliott> since [ handles basically all you'd need for that
15:28:22 <elliott> quintopia: OK, \ for counterclockwise and / for clockwise (imagine arrowheads on the end) and ^ for forward
15:28:28 <elliott> / or \\ make you face the opposite way
15:28:34 <elliott> { for counter, } for clockwise
15:28:48 <Tritonio> if they don't take an argument you will have to write code which is full of "if"s
15:28:59 <fizzie> Or use ←→↑↓; Unicode's trendy. For turning you could even go for ↺↻ or ↰↱ or something.
15:29:53 <Tritonio> I like the turning thing with \ and /
15:30:12 <fizzie> I'd like to see ↯⇌⇈⇄⇶↜↩↫ as valid code in something.
15:30:18 <elliott> \ and / are ugly for sequences
15:30:35 <elliott> <Tritonio> if they don't take an argument you will have to write code which is full of "if"s
15:30:42 <elliott> It's always going to be tedious
15:30:54 <Tritonio> ok i need more commands now: birth, eat.
15:31:23 <Tritonio> like dividing an organism in two. :-P
15:32:31 <fizzie> Good old APL FUNCTIONAL SYMBOL GREATER-THAN DIAERESIS for eating: ⍩ -- it's like pac-man without the circular outline.
15:32:54 <elliott> It looks like a > with an umlaut on top.
15:32:57 <fizzie> Font issues, I guess. It's the price you pay.
15:33:00 <elliott> In fact that /is/ what it is.
15:33:17 <elliott> < would be better, as the traditional orientation of Pacman.
15:33:38 <fizzie> Written as >̈ (with a combining char) -- well, <̈ in that case -- might be more compatible.
15:35:21 <elliott> What does brainfork use? :P
15:36:38 <Tritonio> and what about input commands? I had a read command
15:36:45 <elliott> Tritonio: where does the input come from?
15:37:02 <Tritonio> it may contain enemies, friends or food.
15:37:16 <Tritonio> we need an attack symbol too...
15:37:24 <elliott> Tritonio: can't you unify input/attack?
15:37:53 <Tritonio> so you actually think about having one heading? because currently i was writting it in a way that it has two headings: one for the movement and one for reading the enviroment.
15:38:15 <Tritonio> elliott: you mean if there is an enemy automatically attack it?
15:38:31 <elliott> Tritonio: well, i mean, the same instruction would be used for eating food as attacking enemies
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15:39:39 <Tritonio> hmmm... unless they have a different effect on the bug.
15:40:08 <Tritonio> also the read commands whould give you a way to check your health and food.
15:42:17 <Tritonio> the move command would make sense for attacking too...
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15:44:57 <Tritonio> also the move/attack command could return what stands in front of you after moving.
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16:29:35 <Ilari> Now APNIC graph shows 1.67x/8...
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16:39:41 <j-invariant> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0Z0raWIHXk
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16:50:48 <nooga> http://ooc-lang.org/
16:53:14 <nooga> i think i could leave C++ for good
16:53:29 <nooga> in some rare cases
16:53:41 <nooga> but then i code like in C using basic OO and exceptions
16:54:00 <nooga> and use pointers instead of object types and references
17:02:20 <Ilari> And no field/method pointers? :->
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17:20:03 <j-invariant> elliott: haha why did aynone upvote this http://www.reddit.com/r/fffffffuuuuuuuuuuuu/comments/f5si6/sometimes_i_hate_being_a_cs_major/c1didnb?context=3
17:20:41 <elliott> i'm tempted to upvote that
17:28:15 <oerjan> it is true. you are all going to die.
17:28:28 <oerjan> and that kurzweil guy will be first
17:30:26 <elliott> i'd love it if kurzweil died the day before the singularity
17:30:37 <elliott> "finally succumbed to old age"
17:30:40 <elliott> "THIS JUST IN: old age abolished"
17:31:02 <elliott> yeah kurzweil is a bit coocoo
17:31:09 <j-invariant> all the pills he takes... I bet they just make you more ill
17:31:26 <elliott> I think they're probably doing very little
17:31:41 <elliott> He does have type II diabetes though
17:31:48 <elliott> so he's surprisingly healthy
17:32:05 <elliott> still, 250 supplements a day is pretty crazy
17:32:30 <elliott> wonder how long it takes him to take those and the 10 cups of green tea
17:33:16 <Ilari> 150 pills/capsules of supplements?
17:33:28 <elliott> Presumably one pill of 150 different types.
17:33:37 <elliott> Some elements of Kurzweil's lifestyle are conventional. He exercises frequently, does not eat to excess, and does not abuse recreational drugs. Many others, however, are controversial and may be explained by his obsession with living as long as possible. Kurzweil ingests "250 supplements, eight to 10 glasses of alkaline water and 10 cups of green tea" every day and drinks several glasses of red wine a week in an effort to "reprogram" his biochemi
17:33:37 <elliott> stry.[55] Lately, he has cut down the number of supplement pills to 150.[56]
17:33:47 <elliott> Although not supported by science,[57] Kurzweil and many others believe that consuming large amounts of water is necessary for flushing toxins out of the body, and that alkaline water allows the body to preserve important enzymes used for neutralizing acidic metabolic wastes. For this reason, Kurzweil abhors soft drinks and coffee, which are both acidic. Kurzweil believes that acidic drinks drain detoxifying enzyme reserves. Kurzweil has taken cr
17:33:48 <elliott> iticism from nutritionists and scientists for his advocacy of alkaline water's alleged health benefits and other unconventional beliefs, and he responded to this over the Internet.[58] Green tea and red wine contain antioxidants that neutralize free radicals. Kurzweil also consumes red wine because it contains the compound resveratrol, which may help to fight heart disease according to some evidence, but it is also a potentiator of breast carcino
17:33:48 <elliott> mas which may prove to out-weigh any suggested benefit.[59] Kurzweil also takes pills containing high concentrations of the chemical because the amount in red wine is extremely inconsistent.
17:34:00 <elliott> On weekends, Kurzweil also undergoes intravenous transfusions of chemical cocktails at a clinic which he believes will reprogram his biochemistry. He routinely measures the chemical composition of his own bodily fluids, undergoes preemptive medical tests for many diseases and disorders, and keeps detailed records about the content of all the meals he eats. On that last note, Kurzweil only eats organic foods with low glycemic loads and claims it h
17:34:01 <elliott> as been years since he last consumed anything containing sugar. Kurzweil considers foods rich in sugars and carbohydrates to be unhealthy since they spike the levels of glucose and insulin in the bloodstream, leading to health problems in the long term. He instead eats mainly vegetables, lean meats, tofu, and low glycemic load carbohydrates, and only uses extra virgin olive oil for cooking. Kurzweil also diligently eats foods rich with Omega-3 fa
17:34:08 <elliott> tty acids (including small, wild salmon).
17:35:14 <elliott> j-invariant: come and see my use my powers on MC, that's more productive
17:35:16 <elliott> i can mine any block instantly
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17:38:00 <oerjan> that alkaline water thing sounds rather weird; wouldn't it just cause the body to do more work in order to keep the level of stomach acid stable...
17:38:06 <elliott> http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2011/01/duckduckgo-google-privacy/ I didn't know DuckDuckGo was big enough to afford a billboard.
17:38:16 <elliott> j-invariant: you bought the game didn't you
17:39:07 <elliott> j-invariant: oh yeah that's not a real update
17:39:08 <j-invariant> this is going to destroy all that customization I did... isn't it
17:39:13 <elliott> he just rearranged the server or sth
17:39:19 <elliott> j-invariant: you did back it up right? like i told you to
17:39:21 <elliott> before applying the texture pack
17:39:28 <elliott> so all you'll have to do is copy the backup back, and reapply the texture pack
17:39:33 <j-invariant> elliott: the reason it said I am not a premium user is because I clicked "play offline"
17:39:44 <elliott> you did do that backup right :p
17:39:47 <j-invariant> because it wasn't connecting to the minecraft site
17:40:12 <j-invariant> lwjgl_util.jar minecraft.mrm2011-1-16-0.jar
17:40:12 <j-invariant> minecraft-1.2_01.jar minecraft.patched.up.the.wazoo.jar
17:40:23 <elliott> copy the wazoo one to minecraft.jar
17:40:27 <elliott> and then run the texture pack customiser again
17:40:38 <j-invariant> but shouldn't I just reapply the patches to the new update?
17:40:44 <elliott> j-invariant: there _is no update_
17:42:07 * elliott tries to connect to server repeatedly
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17:42:39 <j-invariant> http://zh-cn.astronomycamerasblog.com/wp-content/uploads-extra/Saturn-B_WILLEMS.gif
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18:00:30 <quintopia> would i be allowed to stay here if I stopped being a computer scientist?
18:01:32 <elliott> unless you became a pure mathematician
18:01:46 <Gregor> Or a xenopsychologist.
18:05:04 <elliott> computational neuropsychologist
18:05:44 <Gregor> computation nutritionist
18:08:12 <pikhq> Computational cable guy.
18:08:59 <elliott> Computologist Xenucable wifologuyist.
18:09:30 <pikhq> PRAISE BE TO XENU!
18:12:11 <Gregor> That was the worst branch merge in human history.
18:12:24 <Gregor> Why must they change every datatype in every revision X_X
18:12:53 <oerjan> computer psychologist sounds like someone who is just destined to be the first victim when the computer decides to take over the world
18:13:18 <elliott> Gregor: Lightweight; we mcmap developers have to handle a brand new way to do a variable-length field almost every protocol update because Notch isn't clever enough to add a length field to the packets.
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18:13:26 <elliott> (Or *wants* to make unofficial clients have to go to great pains not to desync.)
18:14:46 <elliott> Gregor: Did I mention that for the past months there has been an x/z mixup in the map generator, generating retarded maps? Compare:
18:14:48 <elliott> http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5729/mineo.png
18:14:50 <elliott> http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/7637/mineme.png
18:14:55 <elliott> What we're learning, kids, is that Notch is retarded.
18:15:08 <elliott> <fizzie> Phantom__Hoover: All "yaw"-style variables keep accumulating rotational information -- it's never fmod(x, 360.0)'d -- so if you don't balance how often you turn left and right, you'll eventually (though not very fast) start to lose precision in your direction.
18:15:16 <Gregor> elliott: Heh, that does look pretty retardulous
18:15:24 <elliott> <fizzie> " * TAG_Float[0]: The entity's rotation clockwise around the Y axis (called yaw). Due west is 0. Can have large values because it accumulates all of the entity's lateral rotation throughout the game."
18:15:25 <elliott> <fizzie> It's even stored in the data file like that, so it's not per-session, it's per-world.
18:15:38 <elliott> Gregor: (That fixed image was generated by a mod; the official version still flips every fucking chunk.)
18:15:47 <pikhq> elliott: Waitwaitwait, *what*?
18:16:07 <pikhq> elliott: The random map generator has mixed up x and z?
18:16:09 <Gregor> So if you rotate too much, you'd better rotate back again or you'll overflow?
18:16:22 <elliott> pikhq: Yes. Get http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=146200 for a fix.
18:16:30 <elliott> pikhq: (Only affects newly-generated chunks, obviously.)
18:16:34 <elliott> pikhq: Well, not mixing up x and z.
18:16:38 <elliott> It's just that every single chunk is flipped.
18:16:38 <pikhq> That certainly explains the abstract nature of my maps.
18:16:44 <elliott> So all the smooth transitions... aren't.
18:16:55 <elliott> Gregor: Pretty much, yup :P
18:17:05 <elliott> Gregor: Well, floats don't really overflow...
18:17:09 <elliott> It'll just end up at infinity after a few years.
18:17:25 <Gregor> elliott: Well, you might be able to get to a point where accuracy suffers, although even that would take a while *shrugs*
18:17:46 <elliott> Gregor: Except it's per-game, so if you play a single world for a year while constantly turning left for some reason... :P
18:17:59 <Gregor> elliott: Dude, turning right is for pussies.
18:18:12 <elliott> When I need to turn right in MC, I just turn left a bunch.
18:19:41 <asiekierka> any ideas what crazy thing could I do today
18:22:48 <oerjan> <elliott> It'll just end up at infinity after a few years. <-- or you reach a point where turning more doesn't actually _change_ the value at all...
18:22:57 <elliott> oerjan: floating point has an infinity value
18:23:00 <elliott> so, yes, that's that point :P
18:23:06 <elliott> although i suppose it could have other "infinities"
18:23:14 <elliott> floating point saturates not overflows
18:23:29 <oerjan> elliott: um no i mean you could never actually reach infinity because you would reach a point where turning doesn't change the value long before
18:23:54 <elliott> i guess that is possible but i have not seen that happen in floating point
18:24:24 <oerjan> the largest exponent possible is much larger than the number of significant bits
18:24:51 <oerjan> > 1e200 + 360 == 1e200
18:25:37 <oerjan> an interesting question then is whether you could still diminish it by turning back the other way
18:25:52 <oerjan> might depend on the value
18:26:51 <elliott> @check (\(x::Float) -> x-1 /= x)
18:26:51 <lambdabot> Parse error in pattern at "->" (column 14)
18:27:00 <elliott> @check (\x -> x-1 /= x) :: Float -> Bool
18:27:00 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Float -> GHC.Bool.Bool'
18:27:05 <elliott> @check ((\x -> x-1 /= x) :: Float -> Bool)
18:27:17 <elliott> @check ((\x y -> y == 0 || x-y /= x) :: Float -> Bool)
18:27:31 <elliott> @check ((\x y -> y == 0 )|| (x-y /= x)) :: Float -> Float -> Bool)
18:27:33 <fizzie> On the usual 32-bit float, f + 1 == f when f is 16777216.
18:27:34 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: after a very long time
18:27:41 <oerjan> i suspect the quickcheck instances don't tend to create very large numbers
18:27:41 <elliott> @check ((\x y -> (y == 0)|| (x-y /= x)) :: Float -> Float -> Bool)
18:28:17 <lambdabot> "Arguments exhausted after 0 tests."
18:28:29 <lambdabot> "Falsifiable, after 1 tests:\nFalse\n"
18:28:41 <fizzie> And 16777216 degrees is about 46600 full revolutions; at that point, increments smaller than 1 will not change the value. I guess the sort of increments it does depend on how fast you move the mouse and what your FPS is.
18:28:44 <elliott> Probably used () as little sense as that makes before
18:28:51 <oerjan> that's rather annoying without the actual information about which values it tried
18:29:04 <elliott> fizzie: I would imagine it being independent of _that_... but then, Notch.
18:30:26 <fizzie> I wouldn't be surprised if it took delta-x of the mouse coordinates in two successive frames, then turn that into a float, apply some acceleration factor, then += that into the player yaw value.
18:30:45 <fizzie> Possibly depends on how lwjgl does input.
18:30:48 <elliott> fizzie: Do you think Notch can think at a low level like that? :P
18:33:18 <lambdabot> "Falsifiable, after 2 tests:\n2.0\n"
18:34:00 <elliott> oerjan: the only reason that works is (1) the magical f,x,y,z stuff lambdabot has and (2) the fact that quickcheck works on "functions of any argument"
18:34:01 <oerjan> how come _that_ included the value... oh right when there are 0 tests there aren't actually any values used
18:34:27 <oerjan> elliott: yeah i remembered that when i realized i hadn't made a scope for x
18:35:22 <oerjan> i think the Ord instance may be something resembling lexicographic
18:35:38 <oerjan> Phantom__Hoover: in a very limited manner
18:35:54 <lambdabot> f 1 (f 2 (f 3 (f 4 (f 5 (f 6 (f 7 (f 8 (f 9 (f 10 (f 11 (f 12 (f 13 (f 14 (...
18:36:01 <elliott> that is the best worst thing ever
18:36:06 <elliott> i bet they just did deriving (Ord)
18:36:25 <fizzie> elliott: In my single-player world #1, my current rotation value is 4517 degrees, indicating that I've turned left more than right for about 12.5 full rotations.
18:36:30 <Sgeo> What are we not telling me?
18:36:53 <oerjan> it's probably just for Map ordering or the like
18:38:04 <Sgeo> I vaguely remember being somewhere between "bored" and "frusterated at unintuitive documentation navigation"
18:38:54 <Sgeo> Maybe I'll look at it again
18:39:10 <oerjan> @check \x -> x < 100.1
18:39:11 <lambdabot> "Falsifiable, after 328 tests:\n113.53982300884955\n"
18:39:31 <lambdabot> "Falsifiable, after 1 tests:\n-2\n"
18:39:36 <lambdabot> "Falsifiable, after 1 tests:\n0.0\n"
18:39:39 <lambdabot> "Falsifiable, after 3 tests:\n-1.3333333333333335\n"
18:39:41 <oerjan> @check \x -> x < 1000.0
18:39:47 <lambdabot> "Falsifiable, after 1 tests:\n-1\n"
18:39:48 <oerjan> @check \x -> x < 300.0
18:39:52 <lambdabot> "Falsifiable, after 8 tests:\n6.625\n"
18:39:55 <lambdabot> "Falsifiable, after 491 tests:\n206.35064935064935\n"
18:39:55 <oerjan> @check \x -> x < 300.0
18:40:26 <lambdabot> "Falsifiable, after 5 tests:\n3.5\n"
18:40:29 <oerjan> elliott: i somehow doubt it's entirely deterministic
18:40:32 <lambdabot> "Falsifiable, after 440 tests:\n242.5\n"
18:40:35 <elliott> oerjan: DAMMIT YOU MADE ME LOSE
18:40:40 <elliott> STOP FLIPPING THE BITS BY TALKING
18:44:36 <Sgeo> I think I'm starting to like Scala again
18:45:11 <oerjan> elliott: this may be the beginning of a system of divination
18:45:25 <elliott> oerjan: what, @check or Sgeo
18:45:41 <oerjan> "When Sgeo likes Factor, expect monetary trouble."
18:46:35 <Sgeo> What's wrong with Scala?
18:46:42 <elliott> oerjan: aren't horoscopes meant to present a hope-giving and pleasing fiction, not a horrifying, despair-filled one?
18:46:55 <Sgeo> Despite it being pretty much the opposite of what I claimed I liked?
18:47:17 <oerjan> elliott: yes but this is the _sgeoscope_, sheesh
18:47:18 <elliott> Sgeo: Plenty is wrong with Scala, but that's not relevant; we don't hate the fact that you like awful languages, even though you often do; it isn't about the damn languages.
18:47:29 <elliott> It's about *you* (or rather *what you do constantly*)
18:48:16 <oerjan> "when Sgeo likes Plain English, hide in a nuclear shelter."
18:48:35 <Sgeo> oerjan, not going to happen
18:48:50 <oerjan> Sgeo: YAY, THE WORLD IS SAVED
18:49:06 <elliott> i kinda liked plain english :D
18:49:09 <elliott> like in a camp sort of way
18:52:48 <Sgeo> Where was the documentation again?
18:54:00 <oerjan> PLAIN ENGLISH IS ITS OWN DOCUMENTATION
18:54:11 <j-invariant> if you are interested in number theory http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-01/eu-nmt011911.php
18:55:09 <Sgeo> http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-plain-english-1056.html
18:55:31 <Sgeo> It's sad that one of the people arguing against Plain English is a moron
18:56:22 <elliott> Because the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
18:56:56 <elliott> "Uhm, wtf, how can it recompile itself? That's like...writing PHP5 in PHP5. Impossible." This has to be my favourite thing though.
18:57:04 <elliott> Especially how he specified that it only applied to PHP version 5.
18:57:07 <elliott> You can totally do that in PHP4.
18:57:23 <elliott> "GCC (C++ compiler) was written in C++" >_<
18:59:49 <elliott> "if (this.code == System.Types.Rubbish) {
19:00:29 <Sgeo> elliott, where's the Plain English download?
19:00:34 <Sgeo> The one on that page doesn't work?
19:00:59 <elliott> It's worth buying just for the hilarity.
19:01:25 <elliott> [[Regarding the "bootstrapping compiler" you mentioned, I'm afraid it is now lost in the annals of programming history. It was a Pascal-like language of our own design and was implemented using a very tiny subset of Borland's Delphi. We employed it briefly to produce the extremely minimal CAL-1000 (our first Plain English development system) and then immediately abandoned it. At that point we took the Osmosian Oath ("I promise never to program in
19:01:26 <elliott> any language but my own";) and used the CAL-1000 to develop the more robust CAL-1001, entirely in English. The CAL-1001, in turn, was used to produce the more capable CAL-1002, again in English, and so forth, all the way up to the fully functional CAL-3037, which we released as a commercial product. It's successor, the CAL-3040, is currently in testing.]]]
19:01:40 <elliott> [[But the really interesting work is about to begin as we enter Phase II of our project and use the the last of the CAL-series compilers to create the initial incarnation of our "apparently intelligent"(tm) machine, the PAL-1000.]]
19:02:57 <Gregor> Why must you force us to learn these things :P
19:03:06 <oerjan> at least there's a nice pun
19:03:19 <elliott> Gregor: Oh come on, we already researched Plain English extensively before.
19:03:34 <elliott> I think I concluded that a BF interpreter is probably _possible_ to write, but so unbelievably tedious as to be a mammoth project :P
19:04:05 <elliott> Sgeo: How did you get it anyway?
19:04:42 <Sgeo> Oh, I tried http instead of https iirc
19:05:13 <elliott> Sgeo: http://www.osmosian.com/cal-3040.zip
19:05:16 <elliott> Sgeo: ENJOY NEWER COMPILER PRODUCT
19:05:42 <elliott> Gregor said one and so did I.
19:05:57 <hiato> elliott: oh, ofc. *facepalm*
19:06:03 <elliott> I really wonder what lexicon/lexicon is for, does it reject misspelled programs?
19:06:32 <elliott> "Let me put it this way. The CAL-3040 is the most advanced Plain English
19:06:32 <elliott> compiler ever made. No 3040 compiler has ever made a mistake or distorted
19:06:33 <elliott> information. We are all, by any practical definition of the words, foolproof
19:06:40 <elliott> Unfortunately, we are also unusable.
19:06:56 <elliott> Sgeo: But be warned: "When you start me up, I will quickly take over your screen so you no longer
19:06:56 <elliott> have to look at that painted whore of an interface that comes with the kluge."
19:06:58 <Phantom__Hoover> http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y60/remyvoodoo/Screenshot2011-01-20at122039PM.png
19:07:01 <elliott> Note that the IDE interface is, er, quite hard to work.
19:07:36 <Sgeo> It's a full screen convention-breaking file browser!
19:07:50 <elliott> It doesn't break that many conventions :P
19:08:17 <elliott> Sgeo: But note that menus are organised alphabetically.
19:08:25 <elliott> So for instance you go to the N menu to make a new file or directory.
19:08:50 <elliott> It's the worst of both hierarchically-organised menus and completion-based commands.
19:09:39 <elliott> Sgeo: PS, for the best results, open instructions.pdf in the editor itself.
19:09:51 <elliott> Sgeo: Or, wait, open the non-pdf version.
19:09:53 <elliott> The PDF is just a rendering of it.
19:10:03 <Sgeo> "Pages can contain vector graphics, bitmapped pictures, and text. You can
19:10:03 <Sgeo> spell-check, print, enlarge, reduce; it's all there. But what's really swell is tha
19:10:03 <Sgeo> documents are stored as text. Go ahead. Force me to open one that way."
19:10:18 <Sgeo> Bitmapped pictures are stored as text?
19:10:18 <elliott> I don't see why that's so quotable
19:10:22 <Sgeo> Do I want to know?
19:10:30 <elliott> Presumably encoded... but there are no bitmaps in that.
19:10:36 <Gregor> So, it seems like Plain English is roughly ... ORK 2000.
19:11:03 <elliott> Gregor: It's actually quite impressive in that the compiler actually has inline asm generators and shit ... and ... it all actually works and bootstraps, despite the fact that you name variables with "the" followed by a type name.
19:11:12 <elliott> (OK, you can add extra descriptors, but it's still a pain.)
19:11:27 <elliott> So they're certainly very skilled Plain English programmers, it's just that Plain English is a terrible language :-P
19:11:41 <Sgeo> Ooh, it has a C FFI
19:12:26 <Gregor> That's would be very un-plain-English.
19:12:50 <Sgeo> To initialize com:
19:12:50 <Sgeo> Call "ole32.dll" "CoInitializeEx" with 0 and 2 [coinit_aparthreaded].
19:13:00 <elliott> Sgeo: That's just a DLL FFI :P
19:13:06 <Sgeo> I guess it's part of the sausage
19:13:19 <Gregor> Misread that function as coinit_apartheid.
19:14:46 <elliott> The manual is quite wonderfully psychotic:
19:14:50 <elliott> Was it as good for you as it was for me? Look how handsome he is! But he
19:14:50 <elliott> is not me — you can prove it with the Version command. And if you look in
19:14:50 <elliott> the new directory on an empty tab, you'll see the executable file we begat.
19:14:53 <elliott> You can quit the Baby Cal now, and — assuming you believe that a creator
19:14:55 <elliott> can do as he pleases with his creations — you can destroy him.
19:15:36 <elliott> Sgeo: It's possible that 3040 isn't the newest compiler, but whatever.
19:16:18 <Sgeo> "I don't do REAL NUMBERS. I do ratios, very elegantly, but I don't do reals."
19:16:26 <Sgeo> Can't they just say floating-point?
19:16:48 <elliott> Floating-point numbers aren't reals either :P
19:16:49 <Sgeo> Do they have to confuse EVERYONE and not just the people who don't know about FP in other languages?
19:16:55 <elliott> so that would explain the terminology
19:17:11 <Gregor> Y'know what the greatest thing about Plain English is?
19:17:20 <Gregor> In no sense of the words is it plain English.
19:17:31 <Gregor> AND YET IT TRIES SO HARD
19:18:17 <elliott> to add the allocate and deallocate and finalize and destroy routines:
19:18:17 <elliott> if the compiler's abort flag is set, exit.
19:18:17 <elliott> get a type from the types.
19:18:17 <elliott> add the finalize routine for the type.
19:18:18 <elliott> add the allocate routine for the type.
19:18:22 <elliott> add the deallocate routine for the type.
19:18:24 <elliott> add the destroy routine for the type.
19:19:38 <Sgeo> Does it do tail call optimization?
19:22:59 <Sgeo> "The third kind of comment that I understand is the qualifier." "Note that qualifiers are not like simple comments and remarks. Qualifiers are
19:23:00 <Sgeo> considered part of the program and affect how the compiled code executes."
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19:27:15 <Sgeo> Hey awesome, Plain English does not have a garbage collecter
19:27:22 <Sgeo> (Unless I'm missing something)
19:27:51 <Sgeo> "(3) Anything more than this falls under the heading "garbage collection" and,
19:27:51 <Sgeo> as every manly programmer knows, garbage collection is for sissies."
19:30:06 <elliott> So anyway, I made up an esolang.
19:31:08 <elliott> Sgeo: [[You will find that my editor displays simple comments in a delightful sky blue,
19:31:08 <elliott> making it easy for you to see what I'm going to ignore. And no, you can't
19:31:08 <elliott> change the color. My creators have assured me that this is the right color.]]
19:31:39 <Sgeo> I like sky blue
19:31:57 <elliott> Somebody ask me about my esolang.
19:32:00 <Sgeo> I'm not switching my allegiance to Plain English just so I can see sky blue
19:32:29 <Sgeo> asiekierka, if he didn't, he'll pretend to
19:33:14 -!- asiekierka has changed nick to asie[elliotting].
19:33:19 <elliott> I have asiekierka on ignore.
19:33:22 <elliott> asie[elliotting]: Don't do that.
19:33:31 -!- asie[elliotting] has changed nick to asiekierka.
19:33:42 <elliott> Also, "secret communication"; I still have logs.
19:33:57 <elliott> I don't think I'm quite crazy enough to make Herobrine ignore lines by people I ignore.
19:34:20 <asiekierka> Especially ones by me as they bring no value
19:34:27 <asiekierka> they'd make the logs about 42% smaller, too
19:40:54 <Gregor> elliott doesn't ignore too many people, he's just ignored by most everyone.
19:41:07 <Gregor> Now, if Herobrine didn't log people who ignored elliott ...
19:41:17 <elliott> Gregor: AFAIK nobody in here actually ignores me :P
19:41:27 <elliott> At least nobody who ever talks.
19:41:55 <Gregor> Maybe they'd talk more if they'd stop ignoring you.
19:43:13 <elliott> What Gregor is saying is, my iron phallus lords over this channel.
19:46:09 <cheater99> asiekierka: why would you ask elliott anything? he's obviously having another one of his ego trips
19:46:28 <quintopia> so was it decided that people could be psychology majors and still be accepted members of this channel?
19:46:53 <elliott> why would you ever want to do that
19:48:59 <quintopia> take computer science ideas and throw them at the brain and see what sticks
19:49:59 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
19:51:56 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
19:52:17 <elliott> psychology is not scientific in 90% of cases
19:52:33 <cheater99> what about social networks vs computer networks
19:52:55 <quintopia> j-invariant: i am already involved in a project to determine whether the visual system uses random projection to learn categories from a very small number of examples
19:53:21 * elliott thinks quintopia is either using the word "psychology" to mean something else, or is deluded
19:53:46 <quintopia> elliott: it's the school of psychology at a tech school. it's more mainstream cogsci than medical.
19:53:59 <elliott> quintopia: I'd call that cognitive science, not psychology.
19:54:20 <quintopia> nonetheless the degree would read phd in psychology
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20:12:28 * Sgeo WTFs at the existence of Procter & Gamble
20:12:39 <Sgeo> I've heard of it, but didn't know what it was
20:13:53 <Sgeo> SOAP OPERAS? The same company does razors, dental stuff, and SOAP OPERAS?
20:14:23 <quintopia> it makes sense when you consider the origin of soap operas
20:14:38 <quintopia> why are they called /soap/ operas you might ask
20:18:13 <elliott> Did I mention that my esolang cured world hunger?
20:19:30 <olsner> elliott: when did it do that?
20:19:41 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: It's called TICK
20:22:04 <Sgeo> What's its C FFI like?
20:23:38 <elliott> Sgeo: ...but Amethyst has a C FFI.
20:24:07 <elliott> Sgeo: Demonstration. [libc.puts "Hello, world!"]
20:24:34 <Sgeo> How well does it deal with C functions requiring callbacks?
20:24:48 <Sgeo> Or C functions that want void** pointers?
20:25:04 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
20:25:06 <elliott> Sgeo: [active_worlds_thing ^[x: [say x]]]
20:25:15 <elliott> void**? Why the extra star?
20:25:29 <Sgeo> So that the function can return a new void*
20:25:52 <Sgeo> In the AW SDK, void* are used to refer to instances
20:26:39 <elliott> [another-active-worlds-thing [ref my-thing]]]
20:27:14 <elliott> [another-active-worlds-thing [ref my-thing]]]
20:27:21 <elliott> would actually store the resulting pointer in my-thing
20:27:27 <elliott> *[another-active-worlds-thing my-thing]]
20:27:34 <elliott> Sgeo: But, uhh, you'd want a wrapper.
20:27:49 <elliott> Sgeo: Why are instances (void *) in AW...
20:27:53 <Sgeo> elliott, well, I'd make a wrapper, presumably
20:28:00 <Sgeo> elliott, don't ask me
20:28:11 <Sgeo> I guess they're nice and somewhat opaque?
20:28:15 <elliott> Sgeo: OK, better example. Let's say there's a function "void foo(int, int *)", which adds one to the first int and stores the result in the pointer.
20:28:54 <elliott> my-int-value: [deref my-int]
20:28:55 <Sgeo> http://wiki.activeworlds.com/index.php?title=Aw_create
20:29:04 <elliott> You could wrap it like this:
20:30:05 <elliott> This generalises to that void ** thing, but it's freaky and stupid so I don't want to think about how to do it exactly :P
20:31:43 <elliott> Sgeo: Although you could write that usage more simply as [ii say [foo-wrap 123]]
20:31:46 <elliott> (naming of ii not decided on)
20:32:10 <Sgeo> http://www.runrev.com/company/press-room/press-release-archive/runrev-unveils-the-worlds-easiest-programming-language Oh no, how much do you want to bet that this is crap?
20:33:12 <elliott> http://www.runrev.com/products/livecode/very-high-level-language/
20:33:37 -!- acetoline has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
20:34:08 <Sgeo> "The LiveCode language combined with the easy-to-use no-compile coding model mean youll start to see results faster than you would in any other language"
20:34:17 <Sgeo> *cough* Smalltalk *cough*
20:34:21 <Sgeo> http://www.runrev.com/solutions/beginners-and-hobbyists/beginners-and-hobbyists/
20:34:28 <elliott> That has nothing at all to do with Smalltalk whatsoever.
20:34:54 <Sgeo> "and youll learn all the concepts of modern programming you might need, whether in LiveCode or in any number of other environments you might be required to use later in your career."
20:35:43 <Sgeo> put Hello is in theText
20:38:05 <Sgeo> "The LiveCode Player (Formally revWeb Player) is a plugin technology allowing any application made in LiveCode to run in your browser. "
20:38:25 -!- quintopia has joined.
20:38:28 <Sgeo> WHY DOES THIS NEED TO EXIST IF THE CLAIMS YOU MAKE ARE TRUE?
20:39:22 <Sgeo> http://www.runrev.com/products/web/
20:39:26 <Sgeo> DEAR GOD PLEASE DIE
20:42:20 <olsner> "no-compile coding model" but "compile to ... applet files"
20:42:34 <olsner> and "without the need for users to download and install a standalone executable." but "a browser plugin" (apparently you don't have to install it?)
20:43:11 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:44:31 <Sgeo> I may have accidentally biased you
20:46:21 <Sgeo> Well, they were up in arms over the iOS TOS thing
20:46:38 <Sgeo> And Reddit seems to .. have taken that article and completely failed to comprehend it
20:46:43 <Sgeo> http://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/c59ty/runrev_banned_from_app_store_jobs_says_someone/
20:47:29 <j-invariant> http://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/c59ty/runrev_banned_from_app_store_jobs_says_someone/c0q72yb
20:47:35 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined.
20:48:26 <elliott> ?so if they just built their hypercard building app with c they could probably get it in the app store. But they wouldn't be able to say "use this app to make iphone aps". Again, what's the big deal?"
20:48:27 <lambdabot> if they just built their hypercard building app with c they could probably get it in the app store. But they wouldn't be able to say "use this app to make iphone aps". Again, what's the big deal?"
20:48:29 <Sgeo> The point is, Reddit complained that RunRev is being obtuse because "They never actually made an app", while failing to comprehend that any LiveCode apps are forbidden due to the TOS
20:48:32 <elliott> ITT: "I have no fucking idea what hypercard is"
20:49:47 <olsner> ehm, afaik the TOS have changed and no longer say that thing about "originally written"
20:50:02 <Sgeo> olsner, yes, but this was before then, presumably
20:50:07 <olsner> lol, the reddit stuff is 8 months old
20:50:25 <Sgeo> olsner, you think I might have searched Reddit for mentions of RunRev?
20:50:28 <elliott> ?so !c char *s="something"; printf("?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(%s,34,s,34);",34,s,34);
20:50:28 <lambdabot> !c char *s="something"; printf("?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(%s,34,s,34);",34,s,34); not available
20:50:34 <elliott> ?so !c char *s="something"; printf("?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(%s,34,s,34);",34,s,34);//
20:50:34 <lambdabot> !c char *s="something"; printf("?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(%s,34,s,34);",34,s,34);// not available
20:50:36 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="something"; printf(,34,s,34);
20:50:36 <lambdabot> !c char *s="something"; printf(,34,s,34); not available
20:50:42 <Sgeo> Instead of just noticing that this was on the front page, which it wasn't?
20:51:24 <Sgeo> RunRev is moronic, Reddit is moronic, Apple is evil
20:51:28 <elliott> ?so !c char *s=""?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:51:28 <lambdabot> !c char *s=""?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:51:33 <olsner> I somehow got the impression that you were all talking about it because it was put on reddit today
20:51:36 <elliott> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:51:36 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:51:38 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);"; printf(s,34,s,34);
20:51:38 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);"; printf(s,34,s,34); not available
20:51:51 <elliott> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:51:51 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:51:53 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:51:53 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:51:54 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:51:54 <Sgeo> I was googling Plain English and some article on RunRev's LiveCode came up
20:51:54 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:51:56 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:51:56 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:52:00 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:52:01 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:52:04 <elliott> ok now to tell ...who does lambdabot again?
20:52:05 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:52:05 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:52:07 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:52:07 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:52:10 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:52:10 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:52:12 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:52:12 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:52:14 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:52:14 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:52:17 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:52:17 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:52:19 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:52:19 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:52:20 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:52:21 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:52:22 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:52:23 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:52:24 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:52:24 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:52:26 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:52:26 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:52:28 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:52:28 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:52:30 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:52:30 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:52:32 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:52:32 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:52:34 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:52:34 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:52:35 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:52:36 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:52:37 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:52:37 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:52:42 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:52:42 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:52:44 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:52:44 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:52:46 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:52:46 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:52:47 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:52:48 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:52:49 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:52:49 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:52:51 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:52:51 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:52:53 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:52:54 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:52:55 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:52:55 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:52:57 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:52:57 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:52:59 <EgoBot> ?so !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);//
20:52:59 <elliott> that's the first botloop in like
20:53:00 <lambdabot> !c char *s="?so !c char *s=%c%s%c; printf(s,34,s,34);//"; printf(s,34,s,34);// not available
20:53:00 -!- EgoBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:53:01 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:53:19 -!- HackEgo has joined.
20:53:34 <elliott> Gregor: Dude, bot loops are a channel tradition :P
20:53:49 <Gregor> Note: I am not currently on a system with SSH access to codu, I had to SSH through another system to get there.
20:53:52 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: shootout show slap smack source spell spell-all src . ? @ v
20:53:56 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: do more show src vote yow
20:54:30 -!- EgoBot has joined.
20:55:13 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: . ? @ ask bf do ft id msg pl rc src thx v wn
20:55:21 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: . ? @ ask bf do ft id msg pl rc show src v wn yow
20:57:22 <olsner> elliott: congratz on the botloop
20:59:30 <lambdabot> "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\"
21:00:37 <elliott> > show . show . show . show $ ""
21:00:39 <lambdabot> "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\"\""
21:00:55 <lambdabot> "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\...
21:03:02 <olsner> > fix (Just . head . show)
21:03:51 <lambdabot> Just "Just \"Just \\\"Just \\\\\\\"Just \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"Just \\\\\\\\\\\\\\...
21:03:57 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `a -> a'
21:04:01 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Types.Char]'
21:04:07 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Base.String -> a'
21:05:58 <oerjan> > fix (show . fix . shows)
21:06:00 <lambdabot> "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\...
21:06:23 <olsner> @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
21:09:05 <elliott> olsner: how did yours work
21:09:09 <elliott> @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
21:09:12 <elliott> @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
21:09:13 <elliott> @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
21:09:14 <olsner> elliott: it's an actual command name
21:09:14 <elliott> @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
21:09:14 <lambdabot> "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\"
21:09:16 <elliott> @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
21:09:21 <elliott> @src yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
21:09:21 <lambdabot> Source not found. Listen, broccoli brains, I don't have time to listen to this trash.
21:09:32 <olsner> and an in-joke from #haskell a long time ago
21:09:43 <oerjan> @list yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
21:09:44 <lambdabot> quote provides: quote remember forget ghc fortune yow arr yarr keal b52s brain palomer girl19 v yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw protontorpedo nixon farber
21:10:29 <olsner> it goes like this: an old version of lambdabot's eval plugin translated the expression to something like (let v = foo in show v)
21:10:53 <olsner> people discovered that it was called 'v' and exploited it to write various clever fixpoints
21:11:18 <olsner> then they renamed it to something more complicated, and people found that variable name, and so on until they ended up with yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
21:11:30 <olsner> some time after that I think the rewrote the whole thing
21:11:37 <olsner> so you can't do these tricks anymore
21:11:41 <elliott> why did they rename it, sounds fun
21:13:22 <olsner> there was something between that and mu-eval iirc, but that's irrelevant and boring
21:15:12 <variable> olsner, meh better to ptrace the program and block it from performing anything evil
21:15:15 <olsner> btw, @v and @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw are the same command, and both just give you a random quote from its list of 7 or so selected funnies
21:15:37 <elliott> variable variable variable
21:15:46 <elliott> olsner: Just 'J' -- FUNNIEST THING
21:15:53 <olsner> variable: no, I didn't ... *you* did, by chosing that nick
21:15:58 <elliott> <variable> olsner, meh better to ptrace the program and block it from performing anything evil
21:16:03 <elliott> what has that got to do with this?
21:16:03 <variable> elliott, should make a bot that displays a :-) when highlighted on programming channels :-\
21:16:05 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `a -> a'
21:16:12 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `a -> a'
21:16:17 <elliott> the actual evaluation was sandboxed
21:16:31 <variable> elliott, better than picking a random variable name and hoping that helps :-\
21:16:33 <olsner> elliott: what with the what? I was talking about highlighting, not ptrace
21:16:45 <elliott> variable: erm "> v" didn't do anything evil
21:16:50 <elliott> variable: it just produced a silly string
21:17:23 <olsner> something like that might've been the "Exception: <<loop>>" one anyway
21:18:48 <elliott> j-invariant: DO YOU WANT TO KNOW ABOUT MY NEW ESOLANG, it: cured world hunger
21:19:18 <olsner> learn to program food, call it an esolang, use it to cure world hunger
21:19:21 <elliott> you're not j-invariant and you cured hunger
21:50:03 <elliott> val = VInt . read <$> many1 digit
21:50:03 <elliott> <|> vintChar <$> (char '\'' *> anyChar <* char '\'')
21:50:03 <elliott> <|> VList <$> (char '[' *> val `sepBy` char ',' <* char ']')
21:50:03 <elliott> <|> VList . map vintChar <$> (char '"' *> many (noneOf "\"") <* char '"')
21:50:04 <elliott> <|> VHole <$> many1 alphaNum
21:51:02 <olsner> an applicative parser!
21:54:24 <oerjan> well those _are_ Applicative functions too
21:54:49 <elliott> indeed, i'm using parsec 3
21:54:55 <elliott> what would be nice here is idiom brackets...
21:56:16 <elliott> between b x a = b *> x <* a
21:58:06 <elliott> rule = (,) <$> event <*> (string "->" *> event)
21:58:06 <elliott> <|> flip (,) <$> event <*> (string "<-" *> event)
21:58:12 <oerjan> for all Applicatives, i'd think
21:58:45 <oerjan> it's just liftA3 (\b x a -> x)
21:59:20 <oerjan> yes, the actions are performed left to right
21:59:39 <elliott> x <* a is do x' <- x; a; return x'
21:59:42 <elliott> j-invariant: no, it's absolutely great
21:59:55 <elliott> j-invariant: look at this:
21:59:58 <elliott> rule = (,) <$> event <*> (spaces *> string "->" *> spaces *> event <* char ';')
22:00:08 <elliott> you find the actual value by seeing what the *>s and <*s "contain"
22:00:16 <elliott> *> foo <* == this is the value here
22:00:22 <elliott> and it's written in the order that it's parsed
22:00:32 <elliott> that would be less scannable
22:00:36 <elliott> this way you can look for "> x <"
22:01:19 <oerjan> j-invariant: *< would be illogical, the argument on the * side behaves similarly for the two operators
22:01:34 <oerjan> (i.e. its value is discarded)
22:01:58 <olsner> you can think what you want, but that doesn't make it right :)
22:02:45 <elliott> j-invariant: what oerjan said is very relevant
22:04:21 <copumpkin> don't_keep_this_one_either *>>>>> keep_this_value <<<<<* don't_keep_this_value
22:04:23 <oerjan> although if Monads and Applicatives had been properly subclassed, then they would just have been called >> and <<
22:05:42 * copumpkin doesn't have access to j-invariant's machine
22:05:43 <oerjan> i guess that is more analogous to >>= vs. =<< though
22:06:03 <copumpkin> those have data dependencies, so there can only be one order
22:06:27 <j-invariant> oerjan: since a *> b /= b <* a, I don't like the notation
22:06:54 <copumpkin> in testing frameworks and such you often have ?= and =?
22:08:23 <elliott> while "a xyz b == b zyx a" is kinda nice it is not all /that/ important
22:08:34 <elliott> you'd have to scan for "> foo *"
22:08:41 <j-invariant> elliott: it is more important to me whther something is "ugly" or not
22:08:59 <copumpkin> a mnemonic is useful on sequences of punctuation
22:09:13 <elliott> j-invariant: *> and <* are not ugly at all
22:09:34 <j-invariant> in the quest for removing uglyness people invent stuff like ruby
22:09:51 <Sgeo> One of my webcomics is down!
22:10:01 <copumpkin> j-invariant: damn, you just used the godwin of programming language
22:10:47 <j-invariant> hm I should make a language called phithon where indentation is based on fibonacci numbers
22:11:19 <elliott> i wonder if my esolang could reasonably be called functional
22:11:22 <oerjan> phitler. it would _really_ be the godwin of programming languages.
22:11:38 <j-invariant> SYNTAX ERROR ON LINE 31: Indentation does not correspond to a fibonacci number
22:12:06 <elliott> `quote dynamic indentation
22:12:18 <elliott> very relevant, if HackEgo ever gets around to it
22:12:36 <elliott> `run grep 'dynamic indentation' quotes
22:12:38 <HackEgo> <oklofok> i use dynamic indentation, i indent lines k times, if they are used O(n^k) times during a run of the program
22:12:56 <oerjan> you know perfectly well HackEgo doesn't get quote searches with spaces in, unless someone repaired that
22:13:05 <elliott> oerjan: well it's my bug, and i like to be ignorant of my own bugs
22:13:20 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/quote
22:13:32 <elliott> I can't figure out the bug :P
22:13:56 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:14:02 <oerjan> shell escaping is a dark art which i'm not even going to attempt
22:14:12 <elliott> hm perhaps -eq would help there rather than =
22:14:48 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death).
22:14:53 <elliott> j-invariant: i don't wnana :D
22:16:06 <elliott> j-invariant: stop thinking your program sucks :)
22:16:28 <elliott> j-invariant: that it doesn't suck
22:16:35 <j-invariant> also I don't know how to do errors because thre is no "what is the type of object here" function
22:16:39 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
22:16:46 <elliott> j-invariant: you mean manual typechecking?
22:17:00 <elliott> j-invariant: i don't get what you mean then
22:17:06 <j-invariant> anyway I just solved it, definea generic function that describes what sort of object you are
22:17:18 <elliott> j-invariant: this generic function stuff is not very idiomatic :P
22:17:19 <j-invariant> elliott: instead of ERROR: No implementation for #<pict>
22:17:27 <j-invariant> elliott: I want ERROR: No implementation for algebraic
22:17:36 <oerjan> `cp bin/quotes bin/quotes2
22:17:45 <elliott> dunno... still... it's not idiomatic :D
22:17:52 <j-invariant> elliott: actually that still sucks, if it gives an error for something I haven't defined a description for :/
22:18:02 <elliott> j-invariant: this is because you rolled your own :P
22:18:04 <j-invariant> I don't care about buzzwords like idiomatic
22:18:32 <elliott> j-invariant: well it reminds me of writing a haskell program that uses Data.Dynamic constantly
22:18:43 <elliott> that's what it looks like to my scheme goggles :)
22:19:22 <j-invariant> how would you impleemnt a + function that acts in the following way (+ 3 4) ;=> 7, (+ '(a b c) '(x y z)) ;=> (a b c x y z)
22:20:16 <j-invariant> the only reason I wanted a description of the type of the object is for error messages
22:20:28 <elliott> j-invariant: as unhelpful as that is :P
22:20:38 <elliott> j-invariant: but er racket has an object system, you could try that, but i dunno
22:20:40 <j-invariant> elliott: it makes me think your criticism is unfounded
22:20:48 <j-invariant> elliott: the racket system is probably just a bad version of my one
22:20:59 <oerjan> elliott: my brain refused
22:20:59 <elliott> j-invariant: a bad version??
22:21:10 <j-invariant> yeah it's like 30000 lines of code, mine is 20
22:21:25 <elliott> j-invariant: and it will be 30, when you have good error messages ...
22:21:46 <j-invariant> it would still be 20 when I add error messages
22:21:57 <j-invariant> I would just have replaced x with (type-description-of x)
22:22:13 <j-invariant> anyway it doesn't matter because the whole thing sucks and gets rewritten differently
22:22:17 <elliott> and the implementation of type-description-of :P
22:23:58 <j-invariant> I just want the proofs so I don't have to worry about bugs :/
22:25:47 <elliott> j-invariant: haha... you've been damaged by COq
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22:29:27 <j-invariant> elliott: it's too bad I can't actually use it for anything I want to do
22:29:49 <elliott> j-invariant: hehe... i promise programming without proofs can work :)
22:30:26 <j-invariant> people today seem to think bugs are inevitable and they actually brute force (!) their programs to try and filter out some of them
22:30:51 <elliott> j-invariant: I write programs without proofs
22:30:56 <elliott> and they have bugs but the bugs get ironed out
22:31:09 <elliott> and if it wasn't for me adding features, they'd eventually become reliable
22:31:14 <j-invariant> elliott: so what? It's pretty clear you aren't goint to write my pogram for me :P
22:31:18 <elliott> Think how much of the world lives on software :P
22:31:25 <elliott> j-invariant: but it's evidence that programming without proofs is doable..
22:31:56 <elliott> j-invariant: bug-free programming without proofs isn't possible, but that's why you do things iteratively
22:32:34 <elliott> a bug that nobody hits is not yet a bug; a program that nobody uses has no bugs; so if you use your program, and don't hit a bug, it's perfect
22:32:39 <elliott> if you then hit a bug, then you can fix it
22:32:43 <j-invariant> well bug is too vauge a notion, let me say there are some specific things I want to be true of my program --- maybe ti will have other bugs but at least it will satisfy my specification
22:32:52 <elliott> so basically programs either don't get used, or have their bugs revealed, in time
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22:35:32 <j-invariant> elliott: what a bout a program which satisfies some spec.
22:37:44 <elliott> j-invariant: you write it making sure it satisfies it :-)
22:37:54 <elliott> if it turns out that in some point of the future, it fails to verify the spec, then you figure out why, and fix it
22:37:58 <elliott> and it is, then, bug-free until someone hits another bug
22:38:14 <elliott> as time goes to infinity, bugs go to 0, unless you add features a lot, in which case it kinda fluctuates
22:38:21 <elliott> but eventually you end up with a program with every feature and no bugs
22:38:27 <elliott> trust in limits!!!!!!1312904
22:39:28 <j-invariant> yeah that seems completely idiotic, the fact that absolutely everyone works that way isn't enough to convince me otherwise
22:40:01 <elliott> j-invariant: not even Wiles got it all right the first time
22:40:03 <j-invariant> maybe programming isn't flat? maybe it's actually round. I want to sail to the edge and find out
22:40:34 <elliott> j-invariant: yeah but have you considered there might be another way to program effectively...
22:40:39 <elliott> iteratively, with proofs, ???
22:40:58 <j-invariant> elliott: We are discussing ways to program effectively, and you ask me that? :P
22:41:12 <elliott> j-invariant: i'm sayin' that you seem to believe that there's only two ways to program
22:41:16 <j-invariant> Phantom__Hoover: well I am certainly having trouble getting my orientation on it, so that could well be
22:41:51 <j-invariant> well maybe there are more ways but afaict nobody knows them
22:42:13 <elliott> j-invariant: you said you want to find out if programming is flat or round
22:42:20 <Phantom__Hoover> j-invariant, you can use my method of programming, i.e. procrastinating after half-finishing it.
22:42:23 <elliott> j-invariant: whatever it is, go to the edge and see what happens :P
22:42:31 <elliott> j-invariant: if you don't know what the third way is surely that's encouraging???
22:42:47 <elliott> j-invariant: because it means it's something people haven't really analysed yet...
22:42:56 <elliott> and if you want to explore the design space...
22:47:00 * Sgeo is slightly disturbed by the Scala people telling him to learn a different language
22:47:19 <Phantom__Hoover> Sgeo, don't listen to them. If you learn another language the world will EXPLODE
22:47:54 <Sgeo> I think one of their recommendations was Clojure. Also on their list: Haskell and OCaml
22:48:50 <Sgeo> j-invariant, well, I mentioned that I didn't care at all about the JVM or learning Java libraries
22:49:03 <j-invariant> Sgeo: to be honest Scala is a gigantic mess, you probably have to know every language it's based on except one to be able to learn it
22:49:28 <elliott> yeah but Sgeo is a gigantic mess, he'll fit right in
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22:58:12 <elliott> @pl \rs -> concatMap (\e -> concatMap (\(t,(s,as)) -> maybe [] (\bs -> [(s, map (subst bs) as)]) (bindings e t)) rs)
22:58:13 <lambdabot> (=<<) . (. ((`ap` snd) . (. fst) . flip flip snd . (ap .) . flip flip fst . (((.) . flip (flip . (maybe [] .) . flip flip [] . ((flip . ((:) .)) .) . (. flip (map . subst)) . (.) . (,))) .) .
22:59:45 <elliott> @pl \rs -> concatMap (\e -> concatMap (\(t,(s,as)) -> maybe [] (\bs -> [(s, map (subst bs) as)]) (bindings t e)) rs)
22:59:47 <lambdabot> (=<<) . (. ((`ap` snd) . (. fst) . flip flip snd . (ap .) . flip flip fst . (((.) . flip (flip . (maybe [] .) . flip flip [] . ((flip . ((:) .)) .) . (. flip (map . subst)) . (.) . (,))) .) . flip
22:59:52 <elliott> oerjan: don't remind me that i haven't got any yet :p
23:00:04 <oerjan> elliott: i just started yesterday
23:00:18 <elliott> oerjan: how much are you taking per night? curious
23:00:37 <elliott> oerjan: how much is a pill :P
23:00:47 <elliott> "How much is that?" "Oh, about one unit.'
23:01:37 <Sgeo> I kind of like Scala's implict stuff, it's sort of like safe monkeypatching
23:01:39 <oerjan> Yksi tabletti sisältää 2 mg melatoniinia says the finnish text, the others are hidden by the prescription label
23:02:12 <elliott> oerjan: hm that's more than i've seen recommended (1.5mg)
23:02:22 <elliott> although i've also seen it being sold in 3mg tablets
23:02:42 <elliott> oerjan: is it working for you? i haven't yet seen anybody saying "it did absolutely nothing!" which is kinda weird
23:03:22 <oerjan> it didn't work yesterday but that may have something to do with how nervous i was (i had an appointment today too)
23:03:23 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
23:03:55 <elliott> oerjan: well 1.5mg supposedly knocks you out after 1 hour, maybe you didn't wait long enough :D
23:04:02 <oerjan> or rather, i got _tired_ but it took me at least 3 hours before i actually _slept_
23:04:28 <oerjan> the prescription says to take 1-2 hours before bedtime
23:05:08 <elliott> might need a higher dosage then
23:07:36 <elliott> j-invariant: http://www.gwern.net/Melatonin.html is the standard advocacy piece
23:08:42 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
23:08:46 <Sgeo> Maybe I'll take melatonin tonight
23:09:21 <elliott> What reason do you have /not/ to?
23:09:36 <j-invariant> Would that more Haskellers had this mindset! Indeed, would that more people in general had this mindset; as it is, people have bad habits of repeatedly failing when they think they have special information, are highly overconfident even in objective areas with quick feedback, and badly overestimate how many good ideas they can come up with4
23:12:43 <Sgeo> So, saw my first O'Brien Must Suffer episode
23:13:26 <Sgeo> Maybe I should learn how to play Go
23:13:33 <j-invariant> elliott: http://www.gwern.net/Wooden%20pillows.html wow
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23:14:21 <elliott> j-invariant: i could never do that :)
23:16:05 <elliott> j-invariant: re polyphasic sleep, nobody claims 1 hours is doable ... but two ... http://tesser.org/sleep/teslapattern/
23:16:10 <j-invariant> 23:22 < bays_three> IF YOU USE A SYMETRICAL SYMBOL FOR AN ASYMMETRICAL RELATION OR VICE VERSA YOU ARE A PEDERAST
23:16:26 <elliott> Tesla actually results in 80 minutes of sleep.
23:16:30 <Sgeo> OCaml or Standard ML?
23:16:49 <elliott> j-invariant: so yes, the craziest adherents do claim 1 hour will work! (+ 20 minutes)
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23:20:50 <elliott> http://qwantz.com/index.php <-- best Dinosaur Comic of late? Answer: NO, there is no best Dinosaur Comic of late, they are all perfect.
23:20:57 <elliott> *http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=1882
23:23:23 <Sgeo> I wish Oz didn't seem so dead
23:25:08 <elliott> another language for Sgeo to enjoy briefly and then leave in disgust
23:25:38 <j-invariant> I wonder if I could make a programming language that didn't exist
23:25:38 <Sgeo> The only thing that disgusts me about Oz is the apparent abandonment by the community
23:25:49 <j-invariant> Like have a wonderful thriving community, a really cool web2.0 site etc. etc.
23:25:54 <elliott> j-invariant: Sgeo would adore it.
23:39:56 <Sgeo> Oh, I misrepresented them, they were talking about OCaml's module system
23:41:55 <elliott> Sgeo: Misrepresented who...
23:43:04 <Sgeo> The people in #scala
23:43:52 <oerjan> elliott: (concatMap .) . ($ uncurry . flip . ($ ((maybe [] .) . ((:[]) .) . (. subst) $ uncurry (.) . ((,) *** flip map))) . flip (.) . bindings) . flip concatMap
23:44:04 <elliott> oerjan: have you been working on that ever since?
23:44:14 <elliott> oerjan: i don't actually want to make it point-free ;D
23:44:26 * elliott has been kicked by oerjan (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH)
23:44:27 * oerjan swats elliott -----###
23:44:42 <elliott> i appreciate the effort though, you mad bastard
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23:54:56 <j-invariant> elliott: shortly after complaining about DRM
23:54:57 <j-invariant> I love you, Twitter! I do sometimes only see the negative, but almost all of you are positive and awesome! <3
23:55:03 <Gregor> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230575982950 <-- who wants a fast-track Pandora?
23:55:15 <elliott> j-invariant: lol, Notch complaining about Twitte
23:55:22 <elliott> Gregor: I'll take your Pandora
23:55:41 <elliott> Gregor: Anywho, waaay too pricey :P
23:55:42 <Gregor> elliott: No. No you won't.
23:55:59 <elliott> ...and also why does the Pandora have a tiny, useless keyboard.
23:56:13 <Gregor> My cell phone has a keyboard.
23:56:18 <Gregor> It's because touchscreen keyboards suck ass.
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23:57:59 <elliott> Gregor: IT'S A HANDHELD GAMES DEVICE
23:59:01 <Gregor> Phantom__Hoover: People who don't take apart pens are lame.
23:59:29 <elliott> How... do you know...he takes apart pens.
23:59:32 <Phantom__Hoover> OMG YOU NOTICED THOSE PENS WHERE THE CLIPPY BIT IS ALSO THE LOCKING MECHANISM
23:59:42 <Gregor> elliott: I have a video of a particularly effective pen projectile on YouTube :P
23:59:46 <elliott> Did you look him up on MyPenIsTakenApartForAllToSee?
23:59:56 <elliott> You know, mypenistakenapartforalltosee.com.