00:00:24 <elliott> oerjan: now obviously you can just use unsafePerformIO to throw an exception with the data in it directly rather than serialising
00:00:28 <elliott> as long as you keep it all globally pure ...
00:00:49 <oerjan> um you don't need unsafePerformIO to throw exceptions
00:01:07 <elliott> hey look someone thinks I'm conal or someone: <davidL> hello :). I'm a friend of Jason's. I've seen you around in #llvm and probably at a Galois talk or two. I figured I should say hi sometime
00:07:17 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: hoogle hoogle+ do show todo yow
00:07:22 <lambdabot> Control.Exception throw :: Exception e => e -> a
00:07:22 <lambdabot> Control.OldException throw :: Exception e => e -> a
00:07:22 <lambdabot> Control.Exception.Base throw :: Exception e => e -> a
00:09:42 <elliott> oerjan: now the issue is, what about (a<3) && (a>1)
00:09:52 <elliott> oerjan: && uses unsafePerformIO to catch the two exceptions of its arguments
00:09:56 <elliott> and throws another exception
00:09:59 <elliott> this one representing a conjunction
00:10:02 <elliott> using the data from its two arguments
00:10:31 <elliott> oerjan: ofc, any function using this hideous, hideous type is ridiculously unsafe unless called by a catching function :)
00:10:37 <elliott> so clearly, no constructors could be exposed
00:10:41 <oerjan> except for the minor fact && is not polymorphic
00:11:14 <elliott> oerjan: well you could hide prelude's (&&), but then you could just hide prelude's (<) too
00:11:21 <elliott> oerjan: the purpose of this btw is for optimisation, consider querying a database engine
00:11:32 <elliott> you'd have "findRecords (\p -> age p < 42)"
00:11:45 <elliott> and it'd turn into "findRecordsQuery (Lt (Field "age") 42)"
00:11:59 <elliott> and anything it can't handle just gets run over every record in the db
00:12:38 <oerjan> this would be essentially the anti-haskell
00:13:05 <elliott> oerjan: ironically, a querying interface /based/ on this would be rather Haskelly
00:13:17 <elliott> oerjan: in that you'd just use pure functional predicates, and those queries that _can_ be optimised are
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00:16:30 <Gregor> OK, I got a new overdriven/distorted guitar soundfont. Plus a new timpani to boot.
00:18:28 -!- cheater00 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
00:19:09 <Gregor> Trying to see if I can improve the organ (which is actually pretty darn good)
00:20:38 <elliott> Gregor: What would 14-year-old Gregor think of this folly
00:20:47 <elliott> Your NEGLECT of SERIOUSNESS!
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00:28:23 <elliott> <table><tr><td class="timestamp"><time>HH:MM:SS</time></td><td class="who"><span class="angle"><</span>elliott<span class="angle">></span></td><td class="text">Hello, world!</td></tr></table>
00:28:35 <elliott> oerjan: My log formatter is suffering from second system syndrome a bit.
00:29:00 <elliott> oerjan: But you want to be able to choose whether you want left or right-aligned nicks, right???
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00:29:53 <elliott> oerjan: well i might even add a font selection.
00:30:27 <oerjan> well not if i have to reselect every time i visit
00:31:05 <oerjan> also i tend to go directly to a date by editing the address bar
00:31:09 <elliott> oerjan: nonono, it will use COOKIES
00:31:44 <elliott> oerjan: actually right now I'm just trying to figure out how to show "* foo blahs" as "• foo blahs" but have it copy-paste correctly :D
00:32:12 <elliott> 00:00:00<elliott>Hello, world!
00:32:12 <oerjan> second system syndrome, O KAY
00:32:26 <elliott> how does one pronounce "O KAY" anyway
00:32:57 <oerjan> like OK but more refined, yet louder
00:36:51 <elliott> "[Please do not use the comments section of my site to make it easier for people to rely on undocumented behavior. If you want to do that, do it on your own blog. -Raymond]" --The Old New Thing
00:37:09 <Gregor> The ending, with this selection of soundfonts.
00:37:25 <oerjan> but but if it's in the comments then it's NO LONGER undocumented!
00:37:43 <Gregor> elliott: So. So. Amazing.
00:37:47 <elliott> Okay, so I can't use tables/
00:38:00 <elliott> Guess I'll make it a BIG OL' HEAP of DIVS and SPANS
00:38:22 <oerjan> basically these days you have to do your own carpentry
00:38:37 <Gregor> Ignore people who say not to use tables for tables :P
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00:39:39 <elliott> Gregor: Nonono, for reasons other than it being "bad".
00:39:57 <elliott> Gregor: Because at least my browser puts tabs between table columns when copying.
00:40:06 <elliott> Gregor: I want nicely-formatted IRC logs, but they _must_ look reasonable when copied :P
00:40:19 <elliott> Logreaders rely on being able to paste logs into the channel to respond to them, so I have to get that working properly.
00:40:24 <elliott> Which means BIG MESS O' SPANS
00:40:38 <elliott> This also means that I'm going to have to manually size the time "column" rather than the browser figuring it out itself. Progress!
00:40:46 <elliott> This is why using a monospaced font was so nice :P
00:41:30 <elliott> 00:00:00 <elliott> Hello, world!
00:41:34 <oerjan> total project crash in 3,2,...
00:41:54 <elliott> 00:00:00 <elliott> Hello, world!
00:41:54 <elliott> 00:00:00 <elliott> Hello, world!
00:42:03 <elliott> I wonder how IE copies lists :P
00:42:10 <Gregor> http://codu.org/tmp/superturingsv.ogg
00:42:14 <quintopia> what happens when you paste things from logs?
00:42:15 <Gregor> elliott: My bet: poorly
00:42:23 <elliott> oerjan: You, go find a bulleted list on the internet, select it all, Ctrl+C, and Ctrl+V it into here. KTHX
00:42:25 <quintopia> does it link to other places in logs?
00:42:34 <elliott> quintopia: An automated log-linking bot would be awesome :P
00:42:43 <elliott> I wonder how many lines we duplicate.
00:43:11 <elliott> Gregor: It's lost a little bit of its ridiculousness at the start :P
00:43:19 <elliott> Gregor: That electric guitar still doesn't sound like a real electric guitar, dude.
00:43:25 <elliott> And it's definitely not overdriven :P
00:43:38 <oerjan> The South Korean Navy rescues the crew of the hijacked Samho Jewelry, killing eight Somali pirates.
00:43:41 <oerjan> A series of bomb attacks across Iraq kills more than 100 people.
00:43:44 <oerjan> More than 50 people are killed in widespread flooding across southern Africa.
00:43:47 <Gregor> elliott: You're on crack.
00:44:10 <elliott> oerjan: Why is that a list X-D
00:44:12 <Gregor> That distorted electric guitar sounds like a distorted electric guitar :P
00:44:13 <elliott> Okay, so IE doesn't screw that up.
00:44:26 <elliott> Gregor: Maybe to someone who really hates the sound of electric guitars and thus has no good idea of what one sounds like :P
00:44:36 <oerjan> elliott: um it's from wp frontpage
00:44:52 <elliott> oerjan: Oh, I thought it was like, an actual list of some kind.
00:45:22 <elliott> "Lions is the sixth studio album by American rock band The Black Crowes." ""The critics who rated Lions lowest considered it a poor imitation of the band's influences, such as Led Zeppelin."
00:45:23 <oerjan> it was the second list i tried, esolang didn't load
00:45:25 <elliott> What an odd featured article :P
00:49:09 <elliott> | JOIN { target :: String }
00:49:09 <elliott> | PART { target :: String, text :: Text }
00:49:09 <elliott> | TOPIC { target :: String, text :: Text}
00:49:09 <elliott> | NICK { newNickname :: String }
00:49:12 <elliott> | MODE { target :: String, mode :: String
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00:53:00 <elliott> copumpkin: yes, yes it will
00:53:08 <elliott> copumpkin: but almost all the constructors have that :P
00:53:16 <elliott> admittedly I haven't actually used an accessor on that structure yet
00:53:25 <elliott> I might eliminate them later
00:54:59 <elliott> hmm, does freenode actually let you part with a message nowadays?
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00:56:56 <quintopia> i forgot to use /cycle instead of /part and ended up on the wrong #esoteric upon rejoining :P
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00:57:08 <elliott> quintopia: "the wrong #esoteric"? :p
00:58:48 <elliott> mrf, I've forgotten, i'll ask copumpkin
00:58:55 <elliott> copumpkin: are where-s pattern-local or function local?
01:00:49 <elliott> copumpkin: you see i have this parameter with the same name in every clause, and I don't want to pass it around :D
01:01:08 <elliott> formatLine origin (PRIVMSG _ text) = withPunctuation angled origin text
01:01:09 <elliott> formatLine origin (NOTICE _ text) = withPunctuation dashed origin text
01:01:09 <elliott> formatLine origin (ACTION _ text) = withPunctuation bulleted origin text
01:01:49 <elliott> copumpkin: how do you use those again :D
01:01:58 <copumpkin> oh the withPunctuation first param changes too
01:02:02 <copumpkin> how would you _like_ to write that?
01:02:28 <elliott> copumpkin: withPunctuation angled
01:02:29 <elliott> copumpkin: withPunctuation dashed
01:02:33 <elliott> copumpkin: actually text is not always the parameter
01:02:35 <elliott> copumpkin: withPunctuation angled text
01:02:37 <elliott> copumpkin: withPunctuation dashed text
01:02:50 <elliott> basically one parameter is always constant :D
01:02:57 <elliott> formatLine origin (TOPIC _ text) = withPunctuation bulleted origin $ T.concat ["changed the topic to: ", text]
01:02:57 <elliott> formatLine origin (NICK newNick) = withPunctuation bulleted origin $ T.concat ["changed their nickname to ", T.pack newNick]
01:02:57 <elliott> formatLine origin (MODE _ mode affected) = withPunctuation bulleted origin $ T.concat ["set mode ", T.pack mode, " ", T.unwords (map T.pack affected)]
01:03:00 <elliott> you can see how ugly it gets
01:03:21 <copumpkin> hmm, maybe a pattern guard, which is h2010 anyway
01:03:31 <elliott> copumpkin: how do you use those again >_>
01:03:56 <copumpkin> f x y | Just [q, (a, b)] <- g y (x + 1) =
01:04:11 <copumpkin> basically you can write a guard that matches a pattern and fails if it doesn't match
01:04:25 <copumpkin> so regular guards are simply | True <- f
01:04:32 <elliott> yeah i seem to recall that
01:04:39 <elliott> copumpkin: how would that actually work here, though?
01:05:10 <copumpkin> helper :: YourMessageType -> (PunctuationType, TextCrap)
01:05:57 <copumpkin> formatLine o q | (zomgtype, text) <- helper q = withPunctuation zomgtype o text
01:05:58 <elliott> copumpkin: i wouldn't need pattern guards then though :)
01:06:09 <elliott> Gregor: SuperTuring needs a better ending, I feel.
01:06:14 <elliott> Gregor: I have a humble proposal.
01:06:19 <copumpkin> well, presumably you'd make it do something smarter than that
01:06:30 <copumpkin> like maybe return a Maybe of that pair
01:06:35 <elliott> Gregor: Merge EVERY SINGLE PART OF THE SONG into one gigantic ending cacophany placed right after the current ending.
01:06:38 <copumpkin> so you can handle the easy cases homogeneously
01:07:14 <Gregor> The ending is FRIGGIN' AWESOME
01:07:48 <elliott> Gregor: Yeah, it is ... but a cacophony mergingfest *right after* it would be even better.
01:08:02 <elliott> Gregor: Right as SUPERTURING comes on the screen.
01:08:13 <Gregor> Wow, this whole song and we haven't even seen him?
01:08:13 <elliott> And he, uh, jets off with his gay fartstream or however the hell SuperTuring flies.
01:08:19 <elliott> Gregor: THE WORD SUPERTURING
01:08:25 <elliott> But that would be amusing X-D
01:08:48 <elliott> Gregor: The opening sequence could show all of Turing's work, then his homosexuality being uncovered,
01:08:57 <elliott> Gregor: Ending with his transformation
01:09:05 <elliott> Gregor: That is the only thing that could possibly fill up the entire length of the song :P
01:09:31 <elliott> Gregor: Bonus points if all the horrible parts happen while the cheery piano is going on.
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01:09:57 <elliott> Gregor: SRSLYTHOUGH. Append cacophony!
01:12:46 <quintopia> end it with the beginning of mortuos plango, vivos voco!
01:12:55 <Sgeo> I suck at Go. Even against someone who's never played Go.
01:16:06 <Gregor> elliott: Nope, this sucks.
01:16:17 <elliott> Gregor: You haven't made it cacophonous enough.
01:16:23 <elliott> (Wow, "cacophonous" is a word.)
01:16:36 <elliott> Gregor: Okay, better: end it with HEAVY METAL
01:16:37 <Gregor> elliott: Even by the standards of cacophony, this cacophony sucks.
01:18:40 <elliott> Gregor: I think this theme should be Opus 14.
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01:20:24 <Gregor> pikhq: You've missed so much awesome :P
01:20:37 <elliott> Gregor: HAVE YOU MADE THE METAL ENDING YET
01:20:46 <Gregor> elliott: Yes. It sucked. I deleted it.
01:21:37 <Gregor> pikhq: http://codu.org/music/silly/superturing.ogg MORE AWESOME THAN EVER
01:24:43 <elliott> Gregor: Isn't it superturingsv now
01:24:59 <Gregor> elliott: That was just for /tmp/.
01:25:26 <Gregor> I use /tmp/ as a pastebin/filebin (I have a command set up to do that quickly), then eventually I put things in their proper place :P
01:25:32 <coppro> Gregor: i have to honestly say it sounds like a video game medly
01:26:04 <Gregor> (statements about it, that is)
01:27:30 <elliott> Oh wow, Attoparsec is scary
01:28:05 <elliott> HEY GREGOR I'm actually going to work on Kitten again, your dreams of noGNU/Linux will come true. Using a really dodgy definition of dream.
01:28:23 <Gregor> Pics or it didn't happen.
01:29:01 <coppro> also in general it sounds about 20% too fast
01:29:50 <elliott> Gregor: Either that or I'll switch to Windows XP, WATCH THIS SPACE
01:29:56 <Gregor> elliott: HEY I COULD MAKE THE THEME EVEN LONGER
01:30:11 <Gregor> ('cuz according to coppro it's too fast)
01:30:23 <elliott> Gregor: I feel that experimental electronic music is sorely underrepresented in the theme.
01:30:24 <Gregor> Accidentally allowed myself to tab-complete coppro instead of typing "pooppy"
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01:50:42 <Gregor> elliott: The whole theme is experimental electronic music ;)
01:52:39 <elliott> -rwxr-xr-x 1 elliott elliott 3.6M 2011-01-24 02:01 logview
01:52:43 <elliott> I love those compact Haskell binaries.
01:55:10 <lambdabot> forall a (f :: * -> *) b. (Functor f) => a -> f b -> f a
01:55:14 <lambdabot> forall a b (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
01:55:21 <lifthrasiir> elliott, seems to be too late, but puzzlet is not me
01:55:28 <elliott> lifthrasiir: yeah i realised that later :)
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02:00:48 <elliott> lifthrasiir: so when are we getting a new esotope-bfc :D
02:01:30 * elliott donates 1 Spare Time to lifthrasiir
02:01:43 <elliott> but I require that the new version completely evaluate every program up to input! :D
02:02:25 <elliott> seventy billion hours, now get on it :P
02:02:32 <elliott> oh and it cannot fail to halt of course
02:02:37 <elliott> so every non-halting program must be detected
02:08:36 <elliott> lifthrasiir: You could write esotope-brainfuck/w/index.php?title=talk:brainfuck/index.php instead. http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Brainfuck/w/index.php%3Ftitle%3DTalk:Brainfuck/index.php
02:12:14 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Word.Word8'
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02:48:05 <lambdabot> expecting white space, "()", natural, identifier, lambda abstraction or expression
02:48:08 <lambdabot> expecting white space, "()", natural, identifier, lambda abstraction or expression
02:55:05 <Sgeo> Gilad Bracha just wrote some rant about monads and how actors are better
02:55:24 <elliott> imo strings are better than rationals
02:55:30 <elliott> also exponentiation is better than ascii
02:55:42 <Sgeo> http://gbracha.blogspot.com/2011/01/maybe-monads-might-not-matter.html
02:55:52 <elliott> furthermore, HTTP is better than a weasel talking about magic
02:56:07 <elliott> and I would generally use right-aligned text over, say, drop down menus that explode
02:57:30 <Sgeo> "The most important practical contribution of monads in programming is, I believe, the fact that they provide a mechanism to interface pure functional programming to the impure dysfunctional world.
02:57:30 <Sgeo> The thing is, you dont really need them for that. Just use actors. Purely functional actors can interact with the stateful world, and this has been known since before Haskell was even conceived."
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03:06:02 <elliott> tolkad: ah, and another #haskeller trickles in
03:06:12 <elliott> soon, we will envelop the entire channel
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03:16:09 <Gregor> I am one of the few elite who has beaten Muscle March.
03:16:09 <Gregor> That's right. I am amazing.
03:16:13 <tolkad> ^bf ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>.
03:16:49 <Gregor> pikhq: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_s7iCOj9HU
03:28:50 <tolkad> ^ul `r```````````.H.e.l.l.o. .w.o.r.l.di
03:29:29 <tolkad> isn't that valid unlambda?
03:29:53 <Ilari> Hah... There is hardly a blogpost by this cardiac doctor where he doesn't slam wheat... :-)
03:31:16 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Underload
03:31:22 <elliott> !unlambda `r```````````.H.e.l.l.o. .w.o.r.l.di
03:31:26 <elliott> tolkad: fungot is btw written in befunge-98
03:31:26 <fungot> elliott: anybody care to recommend references for developing web apps in scheme
03:31:27 <fungot> http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
03:33:07 <fungot> > replicate 196 ' ' ++ "^botloop"
03:34:24 <fungot> > replicate 196 ' ' ++ "^botloop"
03:34:30 <elliott> how did that happen, are you using /msg? :-)
03:34:51 <fungot> (> replicate 196 ' ' ++ "^botloop")S
03:35:04 <tolkad> guess it doesn't wrap in-channel
03:35:10 <elliott> tolkad: you could probably use ?so.
03:35:27 <fungot> Usage: ^def <command> <lang> <code>
03:35:30 <elliott> ^def lol ul (> "?so ^lol")S
03:35:56 <elliott> hey fizzie add lambdabot to fungot's magic list
03:35:57 <fungot> elliott: i googled time decay and i got to
03:37:50 <tolkad> @pl (\x -> x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x) ^botloop
03:37:53 <lambdabot> join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (
03:37:53 <lambdabot> join (join (join (join id)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) ^ botloop
03:38:23 <elliott> ha ha, lambdabot is badly engineerd
03:38:28 <elliott> our befunge-98 code is far more reliable
03:38:43 <fungot> Usage: ^def <command> <lang> <code>
03:39:46 <tolkad> @fact-set tolkad_test test
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03:40:24 <EgoBot> 128 +++++++++[>+++++++>+++++++++++++>++++>+<<<<-]>+.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.-----.++.>-.>----.<<-----.>----.-..+.>>+. [354]
03:40:29 <elliott> ^def poop: bf +++++++++[>+++++++>+++++++++++++>++++>+<<<<-]>+.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.-----.++.>-.>----.<<-----.>----.-..+.>>+.
03:40:40 <variable> elliott, 128 & 354 --> what are those
03:40:51 <elliott> variable: first is length, second is generations (it's a genetic algo of some sort)
03:40:54 <elliott> ^def poop: bf +++++++++[>+++++++>+++++++++++++>++++>+<<<<-]>+.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.-----.++.>-.>----.<<-----.>----.-..+.
03:41:17 <fungot> Usage: ^def <command> <lang> <code>
03:41:22 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
03:41:34 <fungot> >,[>,]<[<]>[<++++[>--------<-]+>-[-------[--[<+++[>----<-]+>[<
03:41:53 <elliott> ...doesn't help me understand :D
03:47:33 <Sgeo> FILE_NOT_FOUND
03:47:55 <EgoBot> 72 +++++++++++[>+>++++++++>++++++><<<<-]>>--.>+++.<----.+.>++++.<----.-.<-. [77]
03:48:07 <elliott> ^bf +.+++++++++++[>+>++++++++>++++++><<<<-]>>--.>+++.<----.+.>++++.<----.-.[-]+.
03:48:25 <elliott> ^bf +.-+++++++++++[>+>++++++++>++++++><<<<-]>>--.>+++.<----.+.>++++.<----.-.[-]+.
03:48:27 <elliott> quintopia: no, that's impossible
03:48:58 <elliott> ew copumpkin is running that stupid commercial limechat fork
03:48:59 <tolkad> I like the screen clear command
03:49:04 <quintopia> elliott: no, i've seen a bot be made to quit by exploiting weirdnesses with line breaks in its echo ability
03:49:25 <quintopia> (it might be something that can only be done in whatever language that was written in tho)
03:49:27 <elliott> v0, that explains the excellent stability
03:49:42 * Sgeo gives up pretending to be a bot
03:50:13 <Sgeo> All v0 programs surely are one and the same?
03:50:14 <quintopia> elliott: oh pretty please try to break it :P
03:51:05 <Sgeo> 0 modifications to the code, it's all the same, like L-Space!
03:51:25 <tolkad> @bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<+[>.<+]
03:51:25 <lambdabot> 222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222...
03:51:40 <Sgeo> tolkad, don't worry. There's no such thing as 2.
03:52:13 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to ReferenceBot.
03:52:27 <elliott> there's no such thing as jews
03:52:27 <ReferenceBot> It would have been hilarious if this were registered
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04:00:31 <tolkad> it would be fun to pretend to be a bot
04:00:38 <quintopia> @bf +++++++++++++.->++++++++<[>[>+>+<<-]>>[<<+>>-]<<<-]>>++++++++++++++++++++.---------------.++++++++++++++.+.
04:01:14 <tolkad> use a markov-chain bot to come up with responses, then slowly start altering them to be more intelligent
04:01:17 <quintopia> i did that in my head at speed. surprised it came out spelling the right word.
04:01:39 <quintopia> ^bf +++++++++++++.->++++++++<[>[>+>+<<-]>>[<<+>>-]<<<-]>>++++++++++++++++++++.---------------.++++++++++++++.+.
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04:27:54 <Gregor> http://9gag.com/gag/71156/ <-- yes
04:33:56 <quintopia> Gregor: i find this graph sexist. if it said "male architects" in the middle, maybe it'd be okay.
04:34:56 -!- TLUL has changed nick to TLUL|afk.
04:35:19 <Gregor> quintopia: Pfff, women can't be architects, skyscrapers aren't omelettes.
04:35:50 <quintopia> Gregor: i'll be sure to let my women architect friends know that.
04:36:07 <quintopia> (also: very few architects get to build skyscrapers)
04:37:39 <Gregor> And very few ... I can't find a way to turn that around for women->omelettes :P
04:38:45 <quintopia> nah, go ahead and say it formulawise
04:38:57 <quintopia> omelettes are pretty difficult to make
04:41:03 <variable> they are hard to make __well__
04:41:55 <quintopia> variable: can you make a good omelette?
04:42:09 <Gregor> I can't even make plain ol' fried eggs very well :P
04:42:28 <variable> quintopia, your missing the magic words
04:42:43 <variable> quintopia, magic - not technical
04:42:50 <Gregor> Make me an omelette, bitch!
04:43:29 <Gregor> (That's a female dog that is also an omelette)
04:43:45 <quintopia> they're even harder to make than omelettes alone
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05:50:29 <Vorpal> <Gregor> http://9gag.com/gag/71156/ <-- yes <-- hahah
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14:54:07 <elliott> hm the logs do not show Dana_of_The_mead leaving
14:54:19 <elliott> maybe the nick-change logic is borken
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14:56:33 <elliott> ais523: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:ClearBF
14:57:07 <ais523> hmm, a lot of hate on the page
14:57:16 <ais523> I'll give it a few more days, it's not like it's hurting anything
14:57:46 <ais523> since when did we delete esolangs just because there was no evidence they existed?
14:58:21 <oerjan> "a lot"? it's just two posters...
14:58:30 <elliott> well there was discussion in here
14:58:33 <ais523> oerjan: that's a lot for esolang
14:58:33 <elliott> resulting in the first comment
14:58:35 <elliott> and i just posted the second
14:58:44 <fizzie> oerjan: In esolang circles, two people correspond to two million in the real world.
14:58:57 <oerjan> fizzie: EEK, it's crowded!
14:59:04 <elliott> ais523: it's because of their attitude really... not only is the article basically a laughable advertisement of their own "achievements" but their blog is similarly contentless with a whole post devoted to how they created an article on the wiki
14:59:20 <elliott> If it was just "oh we made this language but we haven't got a spec up yet" I wouldn't mind, but it's more like
14:59:33 <elliott> "We made a language! [List of people] And implemented it with C! And flex! And it's a project! And here is a link to our blog!"
14:59:46 <elliott> blog: "We made a wiki article! We use C and flex! The end!"
15:00:17 <fizzie> I'm just happy about the fact that esolangs.org is the "Esolang official website". Gives it all a nice veneer of legitimacy.
15:00:44 <elliott> alternatively, I wouldn't mind it being moved to User:Yasser/ClearBF, although [[User:Yasser]] is currently an old copy of the page...
15:03:07 <oerjan> hm my reading of the actual wordpress blog gives me the impression the project may not actually be _finished_
15:03:43 <elliott> oerjan: but they've implemented it, in C and Fast Lexical Analyser!
15:03:59 <elliott> Compilation Project! ENSIAS!
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15:05:42 * elliott tries to find their school on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandes_%C3%A9coles, fails
15:07:20 <ais523> elliott: C-INTERCAL is written in C, and generally uses flex
15:07:25 <ais523> does that make it a valid esolang project too?
15:07:59 <oerjan> OF COURSE NOT. REMOVE C-INTERCAL NOW!
15:08:00 <elliott> ais523: no! it is not "Compilation Project" at ENSIAS - Rabat!
15:08:16 <elliott> you have not applied the content of the Compilation course on the development of a compiler, which is a relatively large application!
15:08:17 <fizzie> Well, their school-link, http://www.ensias.ma/, is in .ma (Morocco), not .fr.
15:08:29 <elliott> fizzie: YOU AND YOUR SEMANTICS
15:08:39 <elliott> fizzie: I tried googling their name first but they don't appear to, you know, *exist*.
15:09:00 <elliott> But, err, I sorta forgot to .ma thing :P
15:09:21 <elliott> Morocco has also some of prestigious Postgraduate Schools like : L'École Mohammadia d'ingénieurs, l'Institut national de statistique et d'économie appliquée, l'École nationale d'industrie minérale, l'École Hassania des travaux publics, l'Institut supérieur de commerce et d'administration des entreprises, ENCG (écoles nationales de commerce et de gestion), EST (écoles supérieures de technolog
15:10:34 <fizzie> "Founded in 1992, the National School of Computer Science and Systems Analysis (ENSIAS) is one of nine institutions of the University Mohammed V - Souissi. C'est une grande école d'ingénieurs spécialisée en Technologies de l'Information et de la Communication. This is a great engineering school specializing in Information Technology and Communication. Elle a pour missions la formation d'ingénieurs d'état et la recherche en vue du développement technologi
15:10:34 <fizzie> que et économique du Maroc. Its mission is to train engineers and state of research to technological and economic development of Morocco."
15:10:48 <oerjan> ais523: Talk:AlphaBeta is spammed _again_
15:10:51 <fizzie> Which copy-pastes both the original and the translated.
15:10:59 <fizzie> I always manage to not remember that.
15:11:31 <ais523> wow those spambots are fast
15:11:42 <ais523> I'm going to look for a pattern (other than the page) to see how easy it would be to lock it down
15:12:37 <ais523> oerjan: there we go, I even deleted the spam from recent changes (just to make sure I could still remember how to do that)
15:13:51 <oerjan> ais523: one might suspect looking for filled in non-existing form fields might be a good idea?
15:14:01 <ais523> I mean, that I can implement
15:14:20 <ais523> I'm only an admin, I don't have server-level access
15:14:31 <ais523> but the spambots in question seem to be a wide range of IPs, it doesn't look like blocking them would help
15:14:40 <ais523> protecting the page helps sometimes, but sometimes just makes them move onto a different page
15:14:54 <oerjan> i was being slightly sarcastic there, it's pretty obvious this is reaching the point where you _cannot_ detect it
15:14:56 <fizzie> I'm an admin, not an elevator.
15:15:40 <oerjan> automatically, that is
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15:15:53 <fizzie> Moderate all talk pages by making the comments get pasted on #esoteric and need at least three different "!upvote"s before being shown on page?
15:15:53 <elliott> ais523: evil idea: require JS to submit
15:15:58 <elliott> yes, this is a pain, but less of a pain than spambots
15:16:04 <elliott> I doubt they execute full JS
15:16:53 <ais523> elliott: a) that's impossible in general (although you can do something crazy like send encrypted text and a public key and make a JS algo do the decrypting, which comes to much the same thing), and b) it'd hurt people who don't execute JS, which is probably a surprisingly large proportion of the site's visiters
15:17:58 <elliott> ais523: just run some source obfuscator over something that constructs the form, I doubt spammers know the URL to submit to or the form fields
15:18:07 <elliott> and (b) sure, but so does the restriction on divs!
15:18:14 <elliott> and making anonymous users add an edit summary!
15:18:35 <elliott> I'm sure every editor has a browser with some javascript capability, it's just a noscript exemption or whatever, and it'd probably solve the problem for good
15:18:37 <ais523> I completely forgot about the restriction on divs
15:18:43 <fizzie> If they don't run JS at all, you can just leave the form "action" field empty and put a <script> that sets it.
15:19:02 <ais523> fizzie: that depends on how guessable the action element is
15:19:14 <elliott> ais523: spammers == low hanging fruit
15:19:15 <ais523> spambots designed for mediawiki probably don't look at it anyway
15:19:24 <ais523> elliott: we've blocked most of those as it is
15:19:33 <ais523> the current spambots are aiming for a fruit that's slightly higher
15:19:47 <elliott> <form id="editform" name="editform" method="post" action="/w/index.php?title=Talk:AlphaBeta&action=submit" enctype="multipart/form-data">
15:19:56 <elliott> ais523: I imagine spammers have some kind of website automation framework
15:20:23 <elliott> ais523: they might already have to look at the form:
15:20:24 <elliott> <input type='hidden' value="20110124152903" name="wpStarttime" />
15:20:24 <elliott> <input type='hidden' value="20110124152128" name="wpEdittime" />
15:20:34 <ais523> elliott: that's for detecting edit conflicts
15:20:50 <elliott> ais523: hmm, they make sure to add an edit summary, whereas most spambots would probably avoid doing so, to stay unnoticed
15:21:00 <elliott> ais523: I wonder if it's because we reject non-edit-summary edits? naw
15:21:03 <ais523> based on the times in question, they know if overwriting someone else's change was accidental (to give a prompt), or deliberate
15:21:19 <ais523> elliott: some spammers are even posting URLs on occasion, which means they cracked the CAPTCHA
15:21:29 <ais523> admittedly, it's MediaWiki's default CAPTCHA and very simple
15:21:45 <ais523> but it requires knowledge that it's MediaWiki's default CAPTCHA in order to do that
15:21:56 <elliott> ais523: how much page layout can administrators edit?
15:22:02 <elliott> you can add stuff to the top and bottom of the edit page, right?
15:22:10 <ais523> hardly anything, we can't rearrange the skin or anything like that
15:22:19 <ais523> what we can do is add or remove text where there's text already
15:22:24 <ais523> but even then, it's not arbitrary HTML
15:22:29 <ais523> it's all escaped and sanitised
15:22:51 <elliott> ais523: you can rename the "edit" link, right?
15:23:20 <ais523> the link that says "edit this page"? we can change the text of the link, although not the URL it goe sto
15:23:27 <ais523> and I don't see how that would help at all
15:23:40 <ais523> I think either Esolang or Wikipedia customised it
15:23:44 <elliott> ais523: If you renamed edit to "change" and + to ++, well, it's an off-chance...
15:23:52 <elliott> ais523: but I bet they DO look for that link, if not for its text
15:24:01 <elliott> they don't know that mediawiki is at /w/index.php
15:24:03 <elliott> and the link tells them that
15:24:17 <elliott> they probably just look for it in a list, but it's worth a try
15:24:18 <ais523> elliott: they almost certainly find it by spidering for forms
15:24:24 <ais523> which is the completely obvious way to do it
15:24:29 <elliott> ais523: hmm, edit robots.txt?
15:24:35 <elliott> so google doesn't find it?
15:24:35 <ais523> elliott: spambots respect that?
15:24:40 <elliott> ais523: haha, that would be great
15:25:21 <fizzie> The spambots will be all "Oh, you didn't want spam after all? :/ Well then, never mind, I'll be going, have a nice day!"
15:25:38 <elliott> "But... don't you want to hear about how much I like your blog?"
15:26:00 <elliott> "Oh, I'm sorry, I just wanted to tell you about how you could make your penis bigger...if you don't want to that's ok..."
15:27:11 <oerjan> basically what we have here is a bunch of expert programmers who cannot keep a wiki spamfree because they don't actually have access to change its code.
15:27:50 <ais523> designing an esolang-based captcha would be so much fun, too
15:27:55 <elliott> if we had access to the source, I'd just rename all the form fields, add another one hidden by CSS visibility:hidden with a little note saying "don't fill this in" that stops the edit if it's filled in, called "url" or similar,
15:28:07 <elliott> and rename the edit action to editnospam
15:28:39 <ais523> elliott: visibility:hidden? that causes the object to take space on the screen, but not actually be rendered
15:28:53 <elliott> ais523: because apparently some spambots can do simple css
15:28:56 <elliott> so display:none might be caught
15:29:04 <elliott> ais523: I'd arrange it so that it's to the right of the buttons, say
15:29:09 <elliott> so that it doesn't actually change anything
15:29:15 <ais523> also, Google tends to get annoyed with you if you do that, although it's on a robots-excluded page so it probably doesn't matter
15:29:21 <elliott> ais523: oh, better: I'd have a white-backgrounded div with a higher z-index on top of it
15:29:32 <elliott> also, it's quite a common anti-spam technique
15:29:48 <elliott> <span class="emailfield"><input name="email" type="text" size="25" value="'"/> IGNORE THIS OK</span>
15:29:50 <Gregor> Do spambots handle JavaScript?
15:29:58 <elliott> Gregor: I already suggested that.
15:30:04 <elliott> Gregor: But, err, it's possible :P
15:30:07 <Gregor> elliott: Well I don't read backlogs :P
15:30:22 <ais523> Gregor: if they did, you could have all sorts of fun
15:30:37 <ais523> using botnets you didn't own for calculations
15:30:43 <Gregor> I was actually thinking the opposite, autocaptcha.
15:31:21 <ais523> a CAPTCHA that just sends a bunch of JavaScript and gets the user's browser to solve it?
15:31:39 <Gregor> Even one line of JavaScript, if the spambots don't run JS at all :P
15:32:03 <ais523> well, if you're a large enough site, they might hardcode what the JS is meant to do
15:32:21 <Gregor> We're not, and you could make the JS send down an arbitrary BF program.
15:33:07 <elliott> ooh, you could do JS-Hashcash
15:33:24 <elliott> at the very least, it'd slow them down a lot
15:33:25 <Gregor> Anyway, Vorpal will complain :P
15:35:52 <ais523> one issue with hashcash-style algos is trying to adapt them to the other person's processor
15:36:06 <Gregor> Doesn't somebody who isn't graue own esolangs.org?
15:36:09 <elliott> ais523: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashcash is pretty universal...
15:36:11 <ais523> e.g. what would slow a powerful desktop up for a second or so would be far too long on a mobile phone
15:36:22 <elliott> ais523: phones have 1ghz arms these days
15:36:36 <elliott> ais523: hashcash is fast, anyway
15:36:37 <ais523> elliott: there's still a definite speed difference, though
15:36:41 <elliott> ais523: the point is that spambots don't do JS
15:36:49 <ais523> and being fast defeats the point, doesn't it?
15:36:52 <elliott> ais523: and this way, the only way to circumvent it without doing JS,
15:36:55 <elliott> is to actually do the intensive work
15:36:57 <elliott> so it's basically ubreakable
15:37:07 <Gregor> elliott: All I'm thinking is that in principle we could just "mirror" the wiki, change the A record, and leave graue out of it :P
15:37:13 <elliott> ais523: hashcash takes like a second
15:37:20 <elliott> ais523: the point is that it's less than zero CPU work
15:37:22 <ais523> bruteforcing a hash that starts with lots of zeroes is faster if you do it native rather than JS
15:37:26 <elliott> ais523: spambots aren't gonna start manually doing our hashcash system
15:37:29 <elliott> and I very much doubt they execute JS
15:37:34 <ais523> elliott: oh, I'm thinking about CAPTCHAing in general
15:37:35 <elliott> the hashcash is just a proof that the browser executes JS
15:37:46 <elliott> Gregor: Categories without being yelled at?
15:37:48 <Gregor> I actually would not be surprised if they execute JS, that's the bit we haven't proven.
15:38:02 <elliott> Gregor: Well, sure, but if they have to do hashcash for every one of our pages, we're hogging their CPU time.
15:38:05 <oerjan> ais523: the thing about captchas is that it's best if you _don't_ do them "in general"
15:38:16 <ais523> oerjan: security through obscurity!
15:38:31 <elliott> obscurity through security1
15:38:40 <elliott> hmm, challenge: golf a package manager
15:43:39 <Ilari> APNIC at 1.4x/8... Crazy low...
15:44:17 <ais523> Ilari: any idea why the allocation hasn't happened yet?
15:44:27 <elliott> ais523: press release writing
15:44:31 <Ilari> 0.86x/8 allocated in 2 weeks...
15:44:45 <elliott> ais523: we don't hear when allocations get made, just when they're fulfilled
15:44:50 <Ilari> Nah, apparently APNIC hasn't requested yet (or did it recently).
15:44:50 <elliott> so IANA is almost certainly just stalling
15:45:12 <ais523> perhaps APNIC has just quietly NATted the whole of Asia and are hoping nobody notices
15:45:20 <Ilari> According to some IANA sources, they won't delay processing the request...
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15:47:27 <ais523> did I tell you about my idea for an anagolf-based programming language?
15:47:34 <ais523> programs are just integers
15:48:08 <ais523> and in order to interpret them, the interp finds the anagolf problem with the matching number, runs all the programs on it that aren't marked as cheats, and takes the majority opinion
15:48:12 <ais523> disregarding identical programs
15:48:42 <ais523> this leads to really short impls of most standard programs
15:49:02 <ais523> as well as almost tautologically winning on anagolf, although only after the deadline
15:49:10 <ais523> insane enough to work?
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15:53:29 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: -minecraft
15:53:37 <Ilari> And if they don't delay, that either means APNIC hasn't requested the space yet (WTF?) or the request has come so recently that IANA hasn't been able to process it yet...
15:53:58 <Gregor> Phantom__Hoover: People kept complaining about the soundfonts :P
15:54:57 <ais523> I'm at work, but should I listen to that when I get home, and if so, why?
15:55:40 <Gregor> ais523: http://codu.org/music/silly/superturing.ogg Yes, because it's awesome and will CHANGE YOUR LIFE
15:55:58 <ais523> I like the silly in the URL
15:56:04 <ais523> I should investigate to see if there's a serious dir too
15:56:16 <Gregor> That's everything that's not in "/silly/" :P
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15:58:55 <elliott> ais523: It's the theme tune to SuperTuring, the least tasteful superhero TV show ever.
15:59:33 <Gregor> With a theme like this, it's really gotta be a movie :P
15:59:57 <elliott> ais523: It is also the world's greatest musical achievement.
16:00:33 <Phantom__Hoover> ais523, the transition at 1:22 is the most inspired in musical history.
16:00:36 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: I think turning the suicide of a brilliant homosexual because of his government-mandated "treatment" into the birth of a super hero is way up there on the tasteless ranks :P
16:01:01 <elliott> Apart from Batman, who we all know is actually Hitler in a costume.
16:01:22 <Phantom__Hoover> elliott, well, yes, but I'm sure the neo-Nazis have tried their hand at the superhero genre. Although that's not so much tasteless as hateful.
16:01:38 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_Bummer
16:01:46 <elliott> Tyrannosaurus Reich is a supervillain who was featured in Major Bummer #5. T. Reich was pulled to earth through a dimensional portal from a dimension inhabited by Nazi dinosaurs.[1]
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16:03:47 <elliott> ais523: so I had a horrible idea
16:03:57 <elliott> ais523: you know my Python Braces?
16:04:09 <ais523> I know the concept of braces in Python in general
16:04:20 <ais523> yep, IIRC there's a source filter for that around somewhere
16:04:24 <elliott> ais523: the preprocessor I wrote that did "if x==3: { foo }" properly
16:04:38 <elliott> well...you were there so I'll just assume you remember
16:04:42 <elliott> ais523: I've figured out what version 2 should be
16:05:23 <elliott> (class Hello (object) (def (say_hello) (print "Hello, world!")))
16:05:31 <elliott> bonus points if print is a macro that cannot be passed around, like in real Python
16:06:09 <ais523> elliott: I thought that was an old version of Python?
16:06:21 <elliott> ais523: print is a function in Python 3, but nobody uses Python 3 at all
16:06:44 <elliott> ais523: that's like saying "I thought [Perl 5 feature] was an old version of Perl?", except if the Perl 6 implementations were good
16:06:59 <ais523> python 3 is that unpopular?
16:07:30 <elliott> ais523: well, nobody /dislikes/ it, but it's a catch-22 of "i won't port app until libraries" "i won't port library until users"
16:19:38 <oerjan> <ais523> Ilari: any idea why the allocation hasn't happened yet? <-- i saw some comment suggesting they might want to wait until some major conference in february for PR reasons ... didn't give any evidence though
16:27:40 <oerjan> <elliott> ais523: It's the theme tune to SuperTuring, the least tasteful superhero TV show ever. <-- incidentally there's a norwegian web-only superhero series called "fanthomas" whose characters are based on norwegian celebrities; the main superhero character is based on a gay stylist. i'd probably know more if i actually watched tv, or for that matter the series...
16:28:42 <Gregor> oerjan: "gay" is redundant in that noun phrase.
16:29:26 <ais523> hmm, potential worst idea ever: in Chrome, the search/URL box should work like Google Instant and show the I'm Feeling Lucky result
16:29:38 <ais523> so you can keep typing until the site you were thinking of comes up
16:30:02 <elliott> ais523: it shows google results when you type in the url bar
16:30:07 <ais523> elliott: I didn't say results
16:30:14 <ais523> I said the actual pages themselves
16:30:37 <elliott> "porn" AAAAAAAAAH! I was going to type "ography is immoral"!
16:31:03 <ais523> now I'm vaguely wondering what the top google result for porn is, and how often it changes
16:31:36 <elliott> I just checked after saying that, it's pornhub.com
16:31:44 <elliott> amusingly, porn.com is just second
16:31:56 * elliott wonders how much porn.com is worth
16:32:05 <ais523> more than it should be, I suspect
16:32:24 <elliott> Man, pushing chickens into lava pits is really difficult.
16:34:41 <Gregor> pornhub.com is in the Alexa top 100, porn.com isn't.
16:35:11 <elliott> I have no idea why people look at Alexa ratings.
16:35:20 <Gregor> Ohhhhh I think I just called your mom a lesbian.
16:35:25 <Gregor> elliott: Because there's no alternative.
16:35:49 <Gregor> Google is not a toplist, and cannot spit out a toplist.
16:36:14 <oerjan> <Phantom__Hoover> elliott, well, yes, but I'm sure the neo-Nazis hae tried their hand at the superhero genre. [...] <-- somehow i thought i'd read that the _old_ nazis made up a jewish supervillain parody of superman, but i cannot seem to google it...
16:36:14 <elliott> Your mom can't spit out a toplist.
16:36:43 <Gregor> elliott: No, but then neither can Google, so *eh*
16:37:08 <elliott> Gregor: "Your mother can't feed her children." "No, but then neither can Google, so *eh*"
16:37:37 <Gregor> elliott: Now you've got it.
16:38:02 <Gregor> Should my mother REALLY be expected to be more powerful than The Google?
16:38:08 <Gregor> I mean, let's be honest, that's sacrilege.
16:38:16 <oerjan> <Gregor> oerjan: "gay" is redundant in that noun phrase. <-- perhaps. he has a husband too...
16:38:59 <Gregor> You crazy Europeans and your human rights *ha ha ha*
16:39:29 <elliott> Gregor: You know how I reduced plash to basically a FUSE exercise?
16:39:41 <elliott> Gregor: I just realised that the whole /tmp being an alias thing is exactly what you can do with cunionfs.
16:41:06 <Gregor> (However, cunionfs allows /any/ process to change what it views, so it's hardly a lockdown)
16:41:27 <ais523> doesn't plash also control CPU usage?
16:46:45 <oerjan> <Gregor> Should my mother REALLY be expected to be more powerful than The Google? <-- depends. are we considering force of gravitation here?
16:58:45 <Gregor> elliott: "OK, you can solve the halting problem ... but what use is that for fighting crime?" "Well, you know how every interesting problem in computing reduces to the halting problem, yes?" "A lot of them do, fine." "The universe is just a physical implementation of a bounded-storage Turing machine." "That's a bit of a stretch, but even so—" *bright flash of light, SuperTuring vanishes* "... what the hell?"
17:01:00 <oerjan> reminds me of qntm.org/responsibility
17:09:16 -!- quintopia has set topic: ALAMAAILMAN VASARAT RAWX | logs: http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ (formatted hammers); http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D (unformatted underworlds).
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17:11:55 <oerjan> the mailman from outer space
17:14:00 <Ilari> This artcle claims APNIC will ask for the address space this week...
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17:14:46 <oerjan> theory: some nigerian has somehow got AFRINIC to ask for an allocation and IANA is desperately trying to find a way to control the fallout
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17:16:30 <Ilari> I think that would be rejected...
17:20:17 <Gregor> Nah, the IPs would have all gone to whites in South Africa anyway.
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17:23:32 <Vorpal> <oerjan> theory: some nigerian has somehow got AFRINIC to ask for an allocation and IANA is desperately trying to find a way to control the fallout <-- what
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17:33:09 <oerjan> Vorpal: (1) it would amount to africa stealing IPs from asia (2) nigerian scammers
17:33:39 <Slereah> Yeah, I would trust the bank of Bangkok much more
17:33:45 <Vorpal> oerjan, would it? if they run out they could get some
17:34:29 <oerjan> Vorpal: obviously AFRINIC is _not_ running out, they are the smallest region
17:35:03 <Vorpal> oerjan, well they could come to the end of a block
17:35:32 <oerjan> Vorpal: well the whole point is no one expects them to need it
17:36:12 <oerjan> while asia's internet is growing faster than the rest of world's combined
17:36:48 <oerjan> (technically, asia minus middle east and russia or so)
17:37:10 <oerjan> oh and + australia etc.
17:38:03 <oerjan> Vorpal: in any case it's a joke on the fact that everyone expects APNIC to make the two last normal allocations
17:38:17 <oerjan> Slereah: well it's most of asia by population
17:38:27 <Slereah> More of a bordering-the-pacific kind of thing
17:38:40 <oerjan> yeah the P is for pacific
17:39:49 <oerjan> Vorpal: i hereby officially give you the cognomen of Joke-Slayer
17:41:33 <oerjan> Slereah: co- + (g)nomen
17:42:27 <pikhq> And APNIC at 1.4 /8s...
17:45:32 <oerjan> co-gnome obviously belong to the underworld categories
17:47:35 <oerjan> <quintopia> the unformatted ones of course
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17:51:53 <Gregor> Hmmm, would it be "immoral" to make a web service to render MIDI in an expensive (but legally purchased by me) soundfont? :P
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17:52:25 <quintopia> Gregor: my morals don't cover this situation
17:52:44 <quintopia> i say it is de facto legal, however
17:52:56 <Gregor> It is most assuredly legal.
17:53:32 <Phantom__Hoover> It is also moral unless you're ais, but he has a non-standard definition.
17:54:40 <Gregor> So yeah, I bought the SONiVOX 250MB GM set.
17:54:42 <quintopia> Gregor: if you have been known to pirate things, it's not even a question anymore...
17:54:53 <Gregor> It's pretty decent, and I /don't/ pirate things.
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17:56:44 * Gregor proceeds to create webmidi.
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18:23:11 <oerjan> no fucking way he could fit anything in 140 chars
18:26:42 <elliott> quintopia: http://twitter.com/FakeEliezer
18:27:30 <oerjan> is that a real picture of him?
18:28:23 <quintopia> apparently this guy ran out of funny tweets
18:29:09 <elliott> eliezer is on reddit though
18:30:42 <oerjan> actually three, the last one is an afterthought
18:34:37 <zzo38> Now I made index program with TeX.
18:35:28 <zzo38> http://sprunge.us/gfMj
18:37:12 <elliott> http://lesswrong.com/lw/4g/eliezer_yudkowsky_facts/
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18:55:01 <Gregor> Gawd fluidsynth both sucks and is awesome >_>
18:55:18 <zzo38> Gregor: In what way?
18:55:27 <zzo38> Can you tell me why the first page doesn't line up?
18:55:35 <Gregor> zzo38: It's extraordinarily buggy, but when it works it's quite nice.
18:55:45 <zzo38> First page of the index.
18:57:14 <zzo38> I did asked on #LaTeX channel but they do mostly LaTeX in there (although it is supposed to be also about TeX in general?)
18:58:02 <zzo38> Would you know who else I can ask?
19:02:09 <zzo38> This program make up the index by insertion sort, please.
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19:08:21 <zzo38> Phantom__Hoover: Do you know anything about index-making in TeX?
19:12:22 <zzo38> There were a few people interested in TeXnicard and now I do not know who they are. Do you know?
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19:40:00 <Gregor> http://codu.org/webmidi/ TADA
19:40:04 <Gregor> It kinda sucks, needs some work :P
19:40:11 <Gregor> But it does just what it says on the tin.
19:40:15 <Gregor> Also, FluidSynth SUCKS.
19:40:26 <oerjan> as long as it doesn't sound like tin
19:41:43 <zzo38> Gregor: If FluidSynth is no good then use (or write) a different program.
19:42:28 <Gregor> zzo38: FluidSynth is great.
19:42:35 <Gregor> zzo38: It's just very buggy.
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19:47:12 <zzo38> Gregor: Are you able to fix it?
19:47:41 <Gregor> zzo38: I have no intention of fixing it, it's not my code and I don't have infinite time.
19:48:11 <Gregor> http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/111772090722638/111772090722638.ogg <-- look what SONiVOX can do :P
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19:58:49 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: I decided against it being 4 high; it's 3 now.
19:58:53 <elliott> Top ones were too inconvenient to access.
20:00:22 <Phantom__Hoover> (For "homework" read "bunging some variables into Mathematica and solving for them".)
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20:23:09 <oerjan> nice speculation in a reddit comment here: http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/f83l6/internet_expected_to_run_out_of_ipv4_addresses_as/c1e0rvv
20:47:17 <Gregor> http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/127001724023443/127001724023443.ogg <-- lawl, SONiVOX should not be used for strings X-D
20:47:44 <zzo38> Please I would like to know anyone interested with TeXnicard to please read the message.
20:48:59 <elliott> `addquote <Vorpal> ooh I want to see ehird pole dancing <ehird> I think that would be illegal. <Vorpal> oh you are right <Vorpal> damn :/
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20:49:27 <HackEgo> 280) <Vorpal> ooh I want to see ehird pole dancing <ehird> I think that would be illegal. <Vorpal> oh you are right <Vorpal> damn :/
20:51:24 <Gregor> http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/1286221765958/1286221765958.ogg <-- orchestral works are better, except for the string part ... bloody strings :P
20:51:50 <Gregor> (Mind you, the input .mid has no soul at all for that one :P )
20:53:02 <oerjan> always strings attached
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20:53:56 <elliott> Gregor: Do spiderturing^Wturingman^Wsuperturing with sunny-vocks
20:54:20 <Gregor> elliott: I did, the current version is using the samples from SONiVOX that improved it.
20:54:36 <elliott> oerjan: http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/f83l6/internet_expected_to_run_out_of_ipv4_addresses_as/c1e0rvv <-- OR, IPv6 adoption will happen quickly and everything will be fine :P
20:58:00 <elliott> I should get an ipv6 tunnel sometime.
20:59:07 <elliott> Ilari: oerjan: meanwhile, reddit demonstrates how boundless its idiocy is: "If this is such a crisis, why then is it so hard to obtain personal routers for home users that support IPv6? Why is it that my ISP and the ISP I work for not provide IPv6 capability to the end user? Answer: Its not a crisis."
20:59:15 <Gregor> http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/132011164021323/132011164021323.ogg <-- best use of SONiVOX ever
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21:04:28 <elliott> Gregor: Put the Monkey Island 1 theme in, I DARE YOU
21:05:00 <Gregor> Garbage in garbage out though./
21:05:07 <elliott> Gregor: *Brilliance in brilliance out
21:05:19 <elliott> Wasn't the Doom music done by Nine Inch Nails? I think it was.
21:05:26 <elliott> I think that's Doom music at least.
21:05:59 <elliott> Gregor: SRSLY, get the MI1 MIDI and try that.
21:06:23 <elliott> Gregor: http://imuse.mixnmojo.com/media/Midi/Monkeys/intro1.mid
21:06:29 <elliott> Also worth trying is http://imuse.mixnmojo.com/media/Midi/MONKEY1/Chuck.mid
21:06:53 <Gregor> You realize that, as a public web service, you too could do this :P
21:07:21 <Gregor> elliott: http://codu.org/webmidi/
21:07:39 <elliott> WHAT THE FUCK IS A BANK SET WHAT IS THIS I'M DYING OF A HEART ATTACK OK I CLOSED THE PAGE AND NOW I AM OKAY
21:07:41 <elliott> Sorry, what were you saying?
21:08:55 <Gregor> elliott: It's not fast btw :P
21:09:07 <Gregor> (Takes 1/4 to 1/2 the length to convert)
21:09:19 <Gregor> http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/13457265815880/13457265815880.ogg Ah, done
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21:09:37 <Gregor> elliott: So far, pretty awesome :P
21:10:10 <elliott> Gregor: Well, it was designed for the MT-32.
21:10:16 <elliott> So it was already pretty hi-fi :P
21:10:36 <Gregor> What is this open sine wave instrument X-D
21:11:42 <elliott> Gregor: The percussion is a bit too loud in this mix :P
21:12:50 <elliott> Gregor: What was the sine wave instrument?
21:13:19 <Gregor> I lost it, I thought I heard it somewhere in the mix, but maybe I'm just on crack *shrugs*
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21:24:44 <elliott> andrew12: You are really annoying.
21:24:53 <elliott> Gregor: http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/13553113312348/13553113312348.ogg ... percussion is really loud in this set but it's great.
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21:25:17 <Gregor> elliott: Yes, this is pretty awesome.
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21:26:56 * elliott tries to get the Largo LeGrande theme and use that.
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21:41:21 <oerjan> elliott: aww, i was just about to give him a turing test...
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21:48:48 <Gregor> http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/141992377926615/141992377926615.ogg Hmmm, 'snot bad.
21:49:38 <oerjan> Gregor: YOU DO A LOT OF NOSE PUNS FOR SOMEONE WHO CANNOT SMELL
21:50:50 <oerjan> <elliott> oerjan: You are really annoying.
21:52:45 <oerjan> Gregor: hey it's not your fault that you're a no nose sense guy
21:53:11 <Gregor> MY NOSE HAS FEELINGS TOO :(
21:53:51 <oerjan> IT'S JUST SLIGHTLY WRONG FEELINGS
21:54:00 <oerjan> basically your nose is gay
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22:13:22 <augur> Gregor: you're anosmic?
22:13:48 <Gregor> I'm hyposmic to the point that people accuse me of being anosmic :P
22:15:10 <oerjan> Gregor: hey no fair you're the one who taught us the word!
22:15:53 <Gregor> oerjan: I CHEAT AT LIFE
22:16:04 <elliott> I thought you were anosmic
22:16:19 <elliott> anosmic = NOT AT FUCKING TALLERTOIRJSYDLHKG
22:16:37 <Gregor> I am to smell as legal blindness is to vision :P
22:16:51 <oerjan> Hyper = OMG GET THOSE FLOWERS AWAY!
22:17:30 * oerjan is making an educaggerated guess there
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22:27:01 <oerjan> elliott: um, hypo- and hyper- are different prefixes
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23:40:36 <olsner> http://www.levelupstudios.com/punching-trees-gives-me-wood
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23:58:45 <quintopia> shit. someone remind me how to mv a non-empty folder in one command