< 1296346046 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-231-202.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1296346508 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me, at least, GNU is more a part of the operating system than KDE is. < 1296346605 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I reset my computer yesterday - so its gets a new name "befunge" < 1296346993 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1296347237 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296347683 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1296347775 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1296347959 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MostInterestingM < 1296347983 0 :MostInterestingM!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :copumpkin < 1296348004 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: hey what is the Monad instance for that < 1296348045 0 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.255.7 JOIN :#esoteric < 1296348046 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too interesting to repeat < 1296348048 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1296348054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AWW < 1296348070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1296348072 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the AW comonad transformer? < 1296348075 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliott < 1296348077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1296348077 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1296348089 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't really work < 1296348099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are comonad transformers? :D < 1296348134 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1296348139 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/comonad-transformers < 1296348192 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cunningly checks #haskell logs but is none the wiser < 1296348261 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure Sgeo would like that AWW transformer < 1296348266 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1296348360 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g224201152.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1296348556 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296349372 0 :nddrylliog!53db7097@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.219.112.151 JOIN :#esoteric < 1296349488 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohai. anyone alive? < 1296349509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1296349510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1296349511 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*GASP* *GACK* < 1296349531 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brains... < 1296349627 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice! < 1296349638 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got a crazy ideas I'd like feedback on < 1296349646 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-s < 1296349786 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the ideas? < 1296349791 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://docs.google.com/present/edit?id=0AakBA-t72L0TZGZncTh0aGJfMTAwZzM0cTJmYzk&hl=en&authkey=CMyQ8Qc < 1296349815 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ here it is, in its nake beauty. Bear in mind that it's 02:23 AM. < 1296349818 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+d < 1296349866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who the fuck makes slideshows at 2:23 am < 1296349874 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1296349879 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :D < 1296349888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: you're disturbed! < 1296349906 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, breaking news. < 1296349910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1296349923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We also know that it's probably stupid to try to access element -1, or element i > size (syntactic sugar aside). < 1296349923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But we have to spell it out carefully so that the program won't crash and burn because we joyfully walked over the boundaries of the allocated memory. < 1296349928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: you may like http://www.ats-lang.org/. < 1296349949 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, I'm hesitating between "this has been done before" and "nobody's smart enough to implement such a compiler" < 1296349949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: it's a low-level functional systems programming language with dependent types to ensure safety and correctness. < 1296349958 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with option 2 being a little more hopeful than the first < 1296349979 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, ATS sounded fun < 1296349991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/tags/ats/ are probably interesting posts since most of chris double's are :P < 1296350038 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but I hope you undertand from my slideshow that what I'm suggesting is way more than just pre/post conditions < 1296350044 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ooor just safety < 1296350045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I haven't read any more yet! :D < 1296350063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An array has constant time access to element of index 0" < 1296350066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and index N... but < 1296350071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that important for the compiler to know? < 1296350091 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that comes later < 1296350096 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just a human description < 1296350099 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with redundant rules, etc. < 1296350101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: looking at slide 11, i can safely say you're going to need to write proofs to program in this language < 1296350105 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this part doesn't matter much, it's just examples < 1296350108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in complicated cases < 1296350125 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think that's a safe assumption, yeah < 1296350131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: that element inside array can be written as e.g. < 1296350168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Record ElementOf (array : Array) := mkElement { index : nat; index_in_range : index < sizeOf array; data : something goes here } < 1296350170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: in Coq < 1296350175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where "index < sizeOf array" represents a proof of that < 1296350185 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1296350192 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should really take a look at Coq, it's been teasing me for years < 1296350200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such a Coqtease < 1296350202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i apologise < 1296350203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sorry < 1296350206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't kick me oerjan < 1296350212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a good person, inside < 1296350229 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goddamn, 78 google results < 1296350234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1296350236 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are weirder people than me < 1296350247 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot kick you, i didn't get the pun < 1296350262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: cock-tease + Coq < 1296350264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : element { < 1296350264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 <= index < size < 1296350264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : data < 1296350264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1296350264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (0 <= index < size) => exists(element e | e.index == index) < 1296350265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: rephrase: < 1296350268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :element { data } < 1296350293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0 <= index < size) <=> isElementAt(array, index) < 1296350294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1296350296 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wasn't aware of that word < 1296350315 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right but how do you define isElementAt ? < 1296350316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So, what can our language do?" <-- absolutely nothing, you haven't specified any computation mechanism >:D < 1296350339 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbbahh at this point it can check for things < 1296350343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: well here's an abstract array structure in Coq < 1296350360 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, having a good person inside is no excuse, that's true even for cannibals! < 1296350373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Record Array (elemType:Set) := mkArray { size : nat; get : forall index:nat, (index < size) -> elemType } < 1296350391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: where get is initialised by the run-time system and such < 1296350394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. this is just abstract < 1296350409 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but. you're missing the "consecutive" element part. < 1296350416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: howso < 1296350439 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr this is the only point I wanted to get across in these slides and I failed < 1296350444 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is < 1296350446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::))) < 1296350448 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not describing an array < 1296350452 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're describing any kind of list-like structure < 1296350462 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, on the other hand, I'm describing a specific implementation of a kind of list-like structure < 1296350463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: sure... but that's just a stupid low-level detail :D < 1296350469 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not < 1296350471 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my point < 1296350473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH YES IT IS < 1296350474 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cache < 1296350479 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ cache cache cache cache < 1296350482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another stupid low-level detail, like CPUs and the universe < 1296350485 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :victim cache - if anyone ever does that in hardware < 1296350487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and existence < 1296350489 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TLBs < 1296350493 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hit, misses, lines < 1296350494 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of coke) < 1296350502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: i'm sorry, all I can see is "DETAIL DETAIL DETAIL" < 1296350507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: more seriously, you might want to look at Frama-C < 1296350518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: it's a theorem-proving system for C code < 1296350524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: that uses Coq as a backend < 1296350541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I realise it's not what you want, but you could perhaps compile your language to this.) < 1296350544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or even just get ideas from it.) < 1296350548 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, right < 1296350552 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything that looks like it interests me < 1296350567 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, this idea is pretty much all about the details < 1296350573 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes a program run fast, you know. < 1296350585 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correctness and conciseness are just two nice side effects :) < 1296350603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: "In the following code, # means belong to and something' means the future version of something" <-- go purely functional, simply return a new array satisfying an additional condition < 1296350615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: this will make your language's semantics a _lot_ simpler and allow for easier implementation < 1296350629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: (without significantly reducing performance -- in most cases, it is easy to turn this into mutation at the compiler level) < 1296350634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: (after you verify correctness) < 1296350639 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's... what I'm doing < 1296350643 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where are you seeing any modification? < 1296350656 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1296350663 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well hmmph actually it's a bit unclear, I agree. < 1296350685 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mhm yeah I can go purely functional. < 1296350721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: well < 1296350727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :array.insert (index i, data d) => < 1296350727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (element e | e.data == d, e.index == i) # arra < 1296350730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: I would rephrase this as. < 1296350760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: erm < 1296350764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: dude, your element e thing is broken < 1296350768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it doesn't specify what array it refers to < 1296350769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1296350783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: it should be (exists e : element theArray | ...) < 1296350786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. taking the array as a type parameter < 1296350807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's how i would phrase it: array.insert(index i, data d) == array' => exists (e : element array' | e.index == array.size && e.data = d) < 1296350875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The compiler can detect edge cases itself, and optimize for them." < 1296350880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beware the sufficiently-smart compiler argument < 1296350890 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I know, I know < 1296350900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your language seems nice, but so far, you haven't provided ANY concrete details as to how any of this could be implemented :) < 1296350909 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems so simple from here, and we could help it for complex cases < 1296350926 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I know but you should know how my brain works - I have ideas how to implement that. I'm being practical < 1296350927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as someone who's looked a lot at formal verification of software < 1296350931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS NOT SIMPLE AT ALL :) < 1296350932 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1296350936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even these simple examples you give < 1296350937 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's not :) < 1296350949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: well let's put it this way i think your language would advance the state of the art about 20 years. < 1296350953 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hmm your version of insert is 1) much longer 2) I don't see what's wrong with my 'element e' < 1296350966 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you first define it, it doesn't belong anywhere... yet < 1296350975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: by version is much longer but much more precise and purely functional < 1296350985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: also, exists (element e | e.index == n && e.data = d) is true by definition < 1296350988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can construct such an element structure < 1296350995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: the point is that you've just said it exists, not where it is < 1296350995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh < 1296350998 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "e: element array'" replaces the '#' notation < 1296351001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically that statement is logically nonsense. < 1296351003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: no it doesn't < 1296351005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1296351005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1296351008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your # notation makes no sense :) < 1296351011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1296351012 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1296351020 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I wrote that, I knew it would be a nightmare to implement < 1296351022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it does intuitively, but not from a logic point of view at all < 1296351036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would also hold you back a bit i think as far as what propositions you could construct < 1296351057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: my insert is also longer because i removed the "future value" stuff and replaced it with a saner functional approach :) < 1296351070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: you may want to rephrase the whole thing as array.insert's type signature returning a certificate < 1296351081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically return a tuple of (array', proof of the proposition on array') < 1296351098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can have language support for ignoring the proof but absorbing it into the "environment" to make actually using the function easier) < 1296351183 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1296351190 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean make using the function easier? < 1296351219 0 :azaq23!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296351220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: as in, without having to explicitly say "first_tuple_element result" < 1296351242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could e.g. say that %x takes the first element of tuple x, but remembers the second one for the proof system < 1296351247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could do, like < 1296351256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(%array.insert(42))[0] < 1296351261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: oh and my insert was actually an append i just realised < 1296351265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why it was different to yours < 1296351314 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, that too < 1296351321 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we can do e.index == i, no big deal < 1296351330 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hum why the [0] ? < 1296351376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: just an example < 1296351384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: also just saying e.index == i isn't really enough < 1296351395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: you'd want to also demonstrate that every element at i and after in the original array is at i+1 < 1296351399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make managing things easier < 1296351465 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the thing is < 1296351489 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since we have (e1, e2: element array) => (e1.index != e2.index) < 1296351495 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a conflict < 1296351503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no there isn't < 1296351504 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so either the compiler would say that insert is invalid < 1296351513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is there a conflict? < 1296351521 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either it would figure out that the only way to do it is to move all the elements on the right of it < 1296351523 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*of i < 1296351530 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then we'd have two elements with index i < 1296351538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no we would no < 1296351539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1296351542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's how i would write insert's type signature, Coq-style (since Coq is less ambiguous ... :)) < 1296351563 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1296351622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insert : forall (array : Array), forall (i : Index array), ElementType -> (Sigma (array' : Array), (forall (j : Index array), j < i -> ... bleh < 1296351630 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw, "i think your language would advance the state of the art about 20 years." => yes, I figure that it's better to work on such a language even if it's not an easy problem, rather than try to re-implement Java/C# done right (ie. ooc) < 1296351646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: i think using any kind of non-opaque integer for index types is a bad idea. < 1296351654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the propositions get really gnarly :) < 1296351678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: have an opaque index type or something < 1296351767 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opaque? < 1296351777 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only opaque I know is C-struct-opaque and I don't see how it applies < 1296351790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: I mean exactly that. as in, you don't know that an (Index array) is a number. < 1296351811 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1296351813 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well why not < 1296351816 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't change much < 1296351822 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as it's comparable < 1296351888 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could even implement a hashtable on top of that dynamic array, haha :) < 1296351973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: it does change much < 1296351981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it lets your propositions be less ugly :P < 1296351992 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1296351999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well see my line of coq above. it got ugly. < 1296352011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: and the nice thing is you'd need no < relations or whatever. < 1296352018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Index array) is always addressable, no exceptions. < 1296352019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever. < 1296352029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, you know, maybe the compiler will think of a better representation of indices for your very specific type of data, because it has to be a genius already :) < 1296352037 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1296352048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: I'm interested in your ideas, don't take my mocking seriously :P) < 1296352063 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :256-elements array = use chars for indices \o/ (on an 8-bit processor, obviously - otherwise we're losing the perf. improvement) < 1296352063 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                                | < 1296352063 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                                >\ < 1296352081 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't take it seriously :) it's very constructive so far < 1296352091 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: from what I can see, Coq quickly gets clumsy.. probably because it works < 1296352108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: oh Coq isn't a party. but yes, it works. frama-c seems nice enough. coq is a good backend at least :P < 1296352141 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: let's talk about your element { data } part < 1296352145 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why rewrite it that way? < 1296352147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: the thing is that Coq was designed by taking a core, simple logic to ensure correctness, and then the rest was built on top of that < 1296352156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than starting with convenience and ending with a mess like a lot of people :P < 1296352159 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: somehow it bothers me to 'declare' index inside element, because it somehow makes me think the compiler will store it < 1296352162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: well i don't think your element structure even makes much sense. < 1296352179 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but.. not so much because from all the constraints it can be deduced that it's unnecessary to store it < 1296352181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elements aren't "real", there are just valid indices that you can access. < 1296352188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really you want an index type. < 1296352210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which could even be defined to be index array := n | 0 <= n < size array. < 1296352225 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1296352293 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well we have to be able to express that elements belong to the array and that they have a data.. and they definitely all have an index associated < 1296352308 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have trouble defining the 'get' operation without element.index :) < 1296352321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: no you wouldn't < 1296352330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get : (array:Array) -> Index array -> ElementType < 1296352339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming all arrays have the same type of element for simplicity) < 1296352340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: see? < 1296352365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: then you can prove that "forall idx:(Index array), exists (e:ElementType), get array idx == e" < 1296352369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's just a direct restatement of the function < 1296352369 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/defining/implementing < 1296352376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well this would be easier to implement. :p < 1296352380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably. < 1296352393 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easier to make a compiler for it, or easier to implement get in that language? < 1296352393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd likely have to actually implement arrays at some level... but then your genius layer takes care of that :) < 1296352403 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still not seeing your implementation of get, only the function's signature < 1296352439 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is, my (horrible, sketchy, ambiguous, not purely functional, unimplementable) language does away with that array primitive < 1296352447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no implementation there. < 1296352456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: no, in your language _everything_ is a primitive. < 1296352457 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1296352458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much. < 1296352461 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1296352464 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean? < 1296352468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: ok, well let's put it this way < 1296352477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: let's imagine a proposition IsArray T, where T is a type. < 1296352511 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1296352538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: IsArray Ary := exists (Index : Ary -> Type | exists (get : Ary -> Index Ary -> ElemType)) < 1296352542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ignoring the consecutive things FOR NOW) < 1296352554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: then your language pretty much takes IsArray and comes up with a type that fits. < 1296352561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc you'd likely want to specify how index behaves more. < 1296352568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever < 1296352678 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah nah nah don't "whatever" me - speak your mind < 1296352745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: no no no that was me speaking my mind < 1296352746 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-41.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1296352758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"but whatever" was just me breaking out of the train of thought as it became too complicated :) < 1296352765 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1296352774 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hu < 1296352776 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hum < 1296352781 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :embedded 'exists' = my mind hurts < 1296352846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: you may want to become rather proficient with formal logic if you're embarking on this endeavour. :p < 1296352853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recursive call to slow_fib has principal argument equal to < 1296352853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"S n1" < 1296352853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of one of the following variables: n0 n1. < 1296352854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fuck you. < 1296352858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuckity fuckity fuck < 1296352895 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahha < 1296352907 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have something simpler in mind :) < 1296352912 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to try to implement it. < 1296352916 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily right now, though < 1296352922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: what simpler thing? < 1296352965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Toplevel input, characters 142-154: < 1296352965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: This clause is redundant. < 1296352966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're redundant. < 1296352991 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha :D. This is Coq's error messages? < 1296353000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Fixpoint fibonacci (n:nat) : Z := < 1296353000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : match n with < 1296353001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | O => 1 < 1296353001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | S O => 1 < 1296353001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | S (S n as p) => fibonacci p + fibonacci n < 1296353001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : end. < 1296353003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1296353005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can do it like that < 1296353007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: yeah :) < 1296353013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursive functions in Coq have to be written... anally < 1296353017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it has to ensure termination < 1296353038 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooooooouch. < 1296353043 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have made TeX to read its own output. < 1296353055 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what' with you and TeX? < 1296353057 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1296353133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have that stupid principle argument why do you think i'm writing it like this coq < 1296353136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what have i ever done to you < 1296353150 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: What do you think? < 1296353159 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1296353182 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: dunno, maybe some child abuse story < 1296353189 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: No. < 1296353212 0 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-139-13.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1296353234 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: okay, I was messing with you. But making TeX do all sorts of weird stuff sounds extremely cool. Really. < 1296353250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: he's done underload in tex < 1296353254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which kinda puts yours to shame :P < 1296353258 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup, I remember :) < 1296353260 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, totally < 1296353267 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and mine doesn't work on all examples, too < 1296353296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: isn't your current project a magic the gathering card generator based on TeX that's written in an underload-like language implemented in tex? i forget how texnicard is structured exactly < 1296353344 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Something like that. It is not specific to Magic: the Gathering, and it uses TeX and METAFONT, but the main program is a C program (using Enhanced CWEB), it has a built-in programming language something like Underload (although more like dc than like Underload). < 1296353386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: sometimes Coq's error messages are even better: "Anomaly: uncaught exception Not_found. Please report." < 1296353394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok so the Program system is experimental.) < 1296353454 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should learn Coq. And Standard ML. And Erlang. And Esperanto. < 1296353476 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: aaaaaaaand lojban. < 1296353500 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love some Lojban words, like their "we"s. English should import those wes < 1296353537 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(TeXnicard is less specific to Magic: the Gathering than Magic Set Editor) < 1296353598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: (match Fib0 return Fib n 0 with x => x end) < 1296353600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YEAH COQ < 1296353607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like i have to prove that 0 = 0 < 1296353614 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ooooh. kinky < 1296353638 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "prove me, baby. prove me good" < 1296353642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait i thought dependent pattern matching was meant to solve problems like this :D < 1296353645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now how do you use it again... < 1296353821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol it still doesn't work < 1296353876 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you're more or less scaring my ass off Coq :) < 1296353884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: oh i'm actually just pretty stupid < 1296353898 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not a relief - not what it looks like < 1296353903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but coq is a great way to prove to yourself that you're stupid in general < 1296353921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: well i may be giving you the misleading impression that i'm actually any good at Coq at all, which I am not < 1296353994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat da fak < 1296353996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1296354000 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh I do smell the faint odor of someone trying to pretend he knows more than he does - but it's not bothering me :) < 1296354024 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing it all the time anyway < 1296354036 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course Sensei's Library uses custom wiki software. Why wouldn't it? < 1296354039 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalms < 1296354051 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's based on PhpWiki < 1296354072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: oh i make no pretensions about knowing what i'm doing < 1296354081 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The source could (if at all) only be published on alt.tasteless.jokes." < 1296354085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: i just know that a lot of things REALLY DON'T WORK, mostly because i tired them < 1296354113 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bpaste.net/show/13336/ < 1296354118 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ that looks pretty compilable to me. < 1296354125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Toplevel input, characters 1068-1072: < 1296354125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: < 1296354125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In environment < 1296354125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slow_fib : forall n : nat, Sigma nat (Fib n) < 1296354125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n : nat < 1296354128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The term "Fib0" has type "Fib 0 0" while it is expected to have type < 1296354129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Fib ?182 < 1296354131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : match ?183 with < 1296354134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | 0 => 0 < 1296354136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | 1 => 1 < 1296354137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | S (S n as p) => < 1296354139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : match slow_fib n with < 1296354141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | witness fibn _ => < 1296354144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : match slow_fib p with < 1296354146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | witness fibp _ => fibn + fibp < 1296354147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : end < 1296354149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : end < 1296354151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : end". < 1296354154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry for flooding, actually no i'm not, you all had to see that. < 1296354177 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, "witness" is a keyword in Coq? < 1296354243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: no. < 1296354245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my constructor. < 1296354270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: don't worry, it doesn't feel so much like an interrogation, as a shouting match < 1296354343 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, that's the spirit < 1296354348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recursive definition of slow_fib is ill-formed. < 1296354350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not again. < 1296354365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know what i'll do. < 1296354371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll tell it i'm going to use a termination proposition < 1296354375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then add it as an axiom < 1296354376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll show it! < 1296354462 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha that sounds so dirty < 1296354572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if you'll EXCUSE me, I'm going to devote 15 minutes of my life to watching two British dolts walk around in a computer game made out of 1 m^3 blocks being confused and doing lots of silly things. < 1296354579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because my time has no value! < 1296354583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, not at 3 am. < 1296354670 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1296354683 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm probably going to die of a haha overload. < 1296354760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahaha < 1296354879 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1296355348 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: aauughh < 1296355357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::wat: < 1296355431 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've haha'd me to death < 1296355437 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, cereals and coma sound good right now. < 1296355449 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheer(io)s o/ < 1296355465 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've turned nddrylliog into a cereal killer! < 1296355541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nddrylliog: and coma? < 1296355550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm going to eat cereal and then ENTER A VEGETATIVE STATE." < 1296355638 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: dammit, that's my CS nick :) < 1296355649 0 :op_y_mous!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quitte < 1296355652 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and ya, I can't really call that sleep, when I just pass out < 1296355655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, the famed computer science codenames < 1296355659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/nick TheCoqinator < 1296355700 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one would think that to be rather coqy. < 1296355737 0 :asdf__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1296357024 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1296357428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The term "prfp" has type "(fun H : nat => Fib ?119 ?120) n2" < 1296357428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : while it is expected to have type "Fib (S ?119) ?118". < 1296357467 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1296357832 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1296357847 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296357882 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :angkor < 1296358058 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :angkor wut? < 1296358103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :angkor HUGS! < 1296358162 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hugs hugs < 1296358189 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't let ghc get you down, hugs, you're okay with me < 1296358218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how cute, quintopia travelled here from 2003 < 1296358229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi quintopia, we've invented science while you're away < 1296358233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there's this thing called the "internet" now < 1296358265 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: even the woefully outdated need love too < 1296358660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CANADA < 1296358747 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, them. < 1296359247 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "CND" >>= (:"A") < 1296359248 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "CANADA" < 1296360164 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She's talking to me again < 1296360178 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, said one thing, but basically it said that we're talking < 1296360207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how I can predict who "she" is by telepathy! < 1296360224 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-\ < 1296360228 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or by memory < 1296360232 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1296360235 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1296360282 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's because the subject is telepathetic < 1296360298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally < 1296360340 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? Have I talked about more than one person recently who I feared stopped talking to me? < 1296360496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tend to try and forget everything you say very quickl < 1296360496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1296360506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*quickly < 1296361382 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The religious girl < 1296361556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1296361559 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1296361795 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also made TeX-js, although so far the only commands that work are \catcode and \message < 1296362311 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1296362531 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1296363181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if Kitten build scripts should be written in rc rather than sh < 1296363184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COMMENTS ON A POSTCARD < 1296363230 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How can I know where to mail it to? < 1296363264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: 37.5A Cabbles Street, Vistum Street, Orkney < 1296363271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Cabbles House, < 1296363319 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no opinion about whether they should be in rc or sh, but if someone does, they would need to know where to send the postcard. < 1296363321 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1296363369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And with that I LEAVE!" < 1296363580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1296366595 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296371241 0 :wth!~tianhou@110.200.47.45 JOIN :#esoteric < 1296371253 0 :wth!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1296372153 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1296372205 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1296372923 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1296373085 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1296374399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1296374400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1296375611 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1296376412 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1296378125 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-1-55.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1296381069 0 :acetoline!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1296382688 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1296382693 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1296382752 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now the rumours are about 31st... < 1296382808 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reliable infos < 1296384017 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like this IPv4 depletion will be a giant clusterfuck (in the best case). < 1296384122 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome! < 1296384185 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's no guarantees that there won't be a RIR depletion(!) event before the World IPv6 day... < 1296384281 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's RIR depletion? < 1296384340 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regional registrars < 1296384460 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, the current official estimates for APNIC depletion are in end of September. But there have been speculations about April and May... < 1296384551 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much does the official estimate assume demand will rise as depletion date approaches < 1296384778 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296384784 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, the model is exponential or quadric demand... < 1296384804 0 :cheater00!~cheater@e181139126.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1296384923 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think one of the estimates uses exponential model and one uses quadric model. But the amount of data those use is rather large, so effects from IANA depletion (including effects before it) are not taken into account... < 1296384943 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadric? Do you mean quadratic or quartic? < 1296385023 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2nd order... < 1296385710 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1296385737 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1296386478 0 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1296386648 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296388755 0 :Wamanuz3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1296389551 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296389582 0 :cheater00!~cheater@e181133003.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1296389595 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1296389678 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1296391175 0 :wth!~tianhou@110.200.47.45 JOIN :#esoteric < 1296391183 0 :wth!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1296395166 0 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-139-13.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1296395517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1296396155 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-229-194.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1296396463 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296397142 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-151.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1296400010 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296400312 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf with U+263A ? < 1296400319 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that a symbol :-\] < 1296402679 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1296404065 0 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1296404101 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: If you don't like the single smiley, you probably hate the 1F600 block: http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U1F600.pdf < 1296404167 0 :azaq231!~derivecto@p4FF682C3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1296404182 0 :azaq231!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1296404182 0 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1296404253 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Includes such gems as the CAT FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY, the KISSING CAT FACE WITH CLOSED EYES, and the {SEE,HEAR,SPEAK}-NO-EVIL MONKEY triplet. < 1296404304 0 :azaq23!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296404362 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly those are astral characters... ☹ < 1296404397 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we'll always have the snowman. < 1296404430 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the nicely zen U+26C4 SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW. < 1296404445 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What, is that, like, a man?" < 1296404468 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's actually just snowman without a snowfall background.) < 1296404562 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a weather symbol? < 1296404568 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1296404580 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's for "light snow"; and the BLACK SNOWMAN is for "heavy snow". < 1296404972 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its like someone said "we have all these code pages - so lets use them for our random (crappy) art! < 1296405345 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1296405433 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1296406065 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1296406117 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1296406562 0 :Mannerisky!~mannerisk@71-38-55-113.frgo.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1296406823 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296406864 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235033089.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1296406865 0 :cheater00!~cheater@e181141181.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1296407122 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sadly those are astral characters... ☹ <-- ? < 1296407164 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Characters outside the BMP are called "astral". < 1296407170 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1296407176 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it sad they are outside BMP? < 1296407191 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That I don't know; maybe because those are still often broken? < 1296407365 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, sometimes BMP characters work but characters outside it are broken. < 1296407390 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1296407518 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-16 applications in particular hate astral characters < 1296407520 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can believe there's quite a lot of Java code that doesn't do UTF-16 properly, just assumes a "char" can hold any character. < 1296407524 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because often they're really using UCS-2 < 1296407528 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Java code < 1296407529 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or KDE < 1296407549 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there are no easy fonts to cover the astral planes like unifont < 1296407602 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I mention that the Scottish 5th-year computing course states in no uncertain terms that Unicode is a 16-bit character encoding? < 1296407638 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...... < 1296407642 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lies to Children? < 1296407645 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway night → < 1296407651 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, not even that. < 1296407686 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lies to children are oversimplifications which are needed for basic understanding, not blatant falsehoods. < 1296407714 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads Boatmurdered. < 1296407720 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the funniest thing ever. < 1296407729 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's probably not so much lies as merely "insufficient clue when teaching was made" < 1296407731 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[The Manager demanded a clear glass window in his room. To fucking look at what, I asked him. Your room doesn't have a hole leading to the outside. Your room doesn't have a view of anything. The best I can do is put in a window that is 2 feet away from a stone wall.]] < 1296407788 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: there is one Scottish 5th-year computing course? < 1296407801 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, yes. < 1296407814 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: all the post-secondaries are standardized or something? < 1296407825 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, fifth year of high school. < 1296407828 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1296407852 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write angry letters to newspapers about them teaching falsehood < 1296407856 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with detailed citations < 1296407858 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which is different in Scotland and England for hysterical raisins.) < 1296408019 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1296408073 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, not so much hysterical as the fact that the two have entirely separate education systems.) < 1296408075 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1296408142 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296408166 0 :cheater00!~cheater@e181141065.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1296408381 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah... Post that calls Somalia "no longer a nation but an area on the map.". :-) < 1296408449 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it'd been like that for ages. < 1296408478 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah... < 1296408683 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[I've started project "Fuck The World", a top secret attempt to funnel magma to the outside. I'll kill those elephants. I'll kill *_all_* those fucking elephants.]] < 1296408703 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is even funnier than Tom Francis. This is even funnier than the Yogscast. < 1296408736 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I've read Boatmurdered < 1296408755 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, spoil it and you and all you care about will die. < 1296409323 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://scriptor.github.com/pharen/index.html < 1296409331 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel that this person should be shot. < 1296409588 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the english for "execution by firing squad" is boring < 1296409592 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't part of the problem with PHP the standard library? < 1296410011 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, what's interesting about the Swedish? < 1296410082 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly that it's a proper word < 1296410119 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously it's the Swede's method of choice. < 1296410137 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"arkebusering", iirc arcebus means rifle in some language like latin < 1296410156 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rifling, then? < 1296410345 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1296410470 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1296410493 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296410520 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g231051173.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1296410599 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1296410661 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296410663 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BeholdMyGlory < 1296410759 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know who else liked invoking Godwin's law? HITLER. < 1296410896 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1296410958 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dwarf Fortress world generation + Minecraft gameplay: the best thing ever? < 1296410991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't DF gameplay just MC gameplay++? < 1296411015 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it management of AI dwarfs? < 1296411063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:43:23 its like someone said "we have all these code pages - so lets use them for our random (crappy) art! < 1296411069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: all the crap in unicode is for backwards-compatibility. < 1296411086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I think partly, but you definitely mine a lot... < 1296411102 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I know < 1296411107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1296411114 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, but don't you mine by finding some dwarfs and telling them to go and mine? < 1296411127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: for instance the emoji block was recently added to unicode for interoperability, so some unicode character names actually specify a colour now :) < 1296411130 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And it has a roguelike mode. < 1296411135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Not that I know of, no. < 1296411150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I believe you act as yourself in the game, and keeping the dwarves alive is just your goal. < 1296411152 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeap < 1296411160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nope. < 1296411166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What then. :p < 1296411172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You just order around the dwarves. < 1296411182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hmm. But people on the subreddit talk about mining a lot. < 1296411192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you can basically order a dwarf around as a third-person-view player. < 1296411195 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, i.e. ordering dwarves to mine. < 1296411196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you order them to mine a lot. They're effing dwarves! < 1296411204 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn - why can't I find the real hustle online that doesn't forever to buffer :-\ < 1296411217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah, but how much mining is "manual"? < 1296411233 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, *none*! < 1296411234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my, the Let's Play archive looks all modern now. < 1296411262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I mean, do you have to tell it how to branch the mine? Or does it manage it itself? < 1296411271 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1296411287 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, if you don't tell it what to do it'll try doing its own thing. < 1296411295 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its own thing may just be bloody stupid, however. < 1296411298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And probably die? :p < 1296411326 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Let's mine right next to a magma flow. That's a good OH GOD WHY IS MY FLESH MELTING! OH, THE MIASMA!" < 1296411328 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This leads to one of the fundamental tenets of Boatmurdered, i.e. elephant massacres.) < 1296411341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ha, I just started reading Boatmurdered. < 1296411345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[In a nutshell, Dwarf Fortress is best described as a 2-D base building game in the theme of Dungeon Keeper. The concept is simple, the graphics are simple; but the depth of the game is fairly awesome. (Even more amazing when you realize it is all the product of a single man gaming company.) < 1296411345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dwarves you "control" are somewhat autonomous. They have likes, dislikes, and needs. While you can assign them specific duties and set basic orders, they have minds of their own and will act according to how they feel. You can give them a job, but that doesn't always mean they'll do it right away. Injuries to all animals and dwarves are tracked, down to internal organs and body parts. Dwarves have moods that are affected by the things around < 1296411345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :them. They can decide to throw a party for their friends, or they might stress out under strain and suddenly kill each other with little to no warning. Female dwarves occasionally get pregnant and, if they are exposed to trauma (say a goblin siege); they very well might miscarry. Sad thoughts caused by things of that nature can lead dwarves to tantrums or even suicide. < 1296411350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You begin with 7 dwarves and scarce few supplies at the face of a mountain. Your only objective is to survive the elements while building yourself as cool a fortress as you possibly can before you inevitably die. Simple enough, yes?]] < 1296411359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WONDER IF MY COMPUTER CAN HANDLE DWARF FORTRESS. < 1296411389 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MC + DF: melt your CPU and GPU AT THE SAME TIME! < 1296411400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MC is mainly CPU-intensive... < 1296411407 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? < 1296411407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And even then not *that* much.) < 1296411411 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not even doing much... < 1296411415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Sure, the GPU has a very easy job. < 1296411421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It just has to render gigantic squares, not any detail at all. < 1296411431 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the CPU up to, then? < 1296411431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The CPU has to simulate like 16x16 chunks. < 1296411449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A chunk is 16x16x238. < 1296411454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, the 9x9 chunks are loaded. < 1296411462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*128 < 1296411463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So 144x144x128. < 1296411473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: 144*144*128 = 2,654,208. < 1296411491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Answer: It's simulating MC's warped version of physics on two and a half million blocks every frame. < 1296411492 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but next to none of that is doing anything. < 1296411493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, every tick. < 1296411503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It still has to *look* at them to figure out *if* anything is happening. < 1296411514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Especially water and lava flow are intensive. < 1296411529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the game could be optimised, but it's never going to run on a 486. < 1296411585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: THE DWARF FORTRESS INTRO IS AMAZING < 1296411601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, the title screen gives me an even longer name with which to refer to the game! < 1296411602 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAVE FUN MICROMANAGING < 1296411615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slaves to Armok: God of Blood, Chapter II: Dwarf Fortress: Histories of Cupidity and Diligence, v0.31.188 < 1296411617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*.18 < 1296411625 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines GoTris < 1296411649 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines SgeoTris. < 1296411653 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should shut up < 1296411654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OMG DWARF FORTRESS IS HARDCORE WITHOUT A NUMPAD. < 1296411659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Use 824693 to scroll." < 1296411671 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a numpad. < 1296411681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: On your /laptop/? < 1296411686 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES < 1296411690 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IS SO CRAZY < 1296411698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ah, an 18" lugtop. < 1296411720 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I put it on top of a lug. < 1296411725 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes no sense. < 1296411751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao, you can make a 17x17 world < 1296411755 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They put numpads in ~16" laptops nowadays. < 1296411756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the largest is 257x257 < 1296411759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes yes yes. < 1296411778 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it could be one of those fancy external numpads. < 1296411806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :World generation is going pretty fast for me. < 1296411815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's almost done with the default settings. < 1296411826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1296411843 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a video on YouTube of someone massacring some elves he didn't like by opening a portal to hell and giving the flood of demons convenient stairs into their village. < 1296411857 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not "portal". < 1296411858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1296411891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW DO I CHOOSE WHERE TO PUT MY FORTRESS. < 1296411892 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More "gaping hole in the adamantine seal over a hole in what amounts to bedrock in DF". < 1296411982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy shit this is complicated. < 1296411994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I've always thought that the Nether's roof should be the world's floor. < 1296412003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you should enter the Nether by instead somehow poking a hole in bedrock. < 1296412007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And floating down. < 1296412044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW DO YOU PLAY THIS GAME < 1296412048 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the chunk height could actually be extended like that, adding the Nether beneath the world would be the least thing to do. < 1296412054 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Quickstart_guide < 1296412066 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur[afk] < 1296412076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually the floating down should just be accomplished by putting sand down there. < 1296412083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's OK if things are manual, Notch. < 1296412085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also -minecraft < 1296412121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I did not actually realise I could customise my dwarves, so I guess I just have some random dudes. < 1296412156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DF's music is amusing. < 1296412357 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1296413062 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1296413182 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1296413252 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296413289 0 :cheater00!~cheater@e181142136.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1296413375 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1296413588 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1296414229 0 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-139-13.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1296414283 0 :augur[afk]!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1296414499 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296414523 0 :cheater00!~cheater@e181135214.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1296415354 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Disallow: /?blockme= valid in robots.txt? < 1296415372 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason, I was under the impression it had to end with / < 1296415443 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "Disallow" field specifies a partial URI that is not to be visited. This can be a full path, or a partial path; any URI that starts with this value will not be retrieved. For example, Disallow: /help disallows both /help.html and /help/index.html, whereas Disallow: /help/ would disallow /help/index.html but allow /help.html. < 1296415507 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1296415545 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, don't visit http://senseis.xmp.net/?blockme=AccessBlocked unless you want your access to Sensei's Library blocked for 48 hours < 1296415550 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is so intensely curious < 1296415637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Access blocked for about 1 minutes because of misbehaving mirror script. < 1296415638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : See AccessBlocked for more information once you are unblocked again. < 1296415638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If you would like to have a local copy of Sensei's Library, < 1296415638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : do not mirror this site, but download the SL Snapshot instead. < 1296415638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It is less trouble for everyone. < 1296415638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /Arno, ahollosi@xmp.net < 1296415656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clicked the AccessBlocked link: < 1296415658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Access blocked for about 36 hours because of misbehaving mirror script. < 1296415801 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before one minute timeout? < 1296415813 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1296415892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Clearly :P < 1296415999 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1296416106 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296416124 0 :cheater-!~cheater@e181128107.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1296416439 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Maybe "giant clusterfuck" was much too optimistic about IPv4 depletion.... < 1296416624 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1296416679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: EVERYONE IS DYING < 1296416761 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh ffs. Mahjong scares me, and I don't even know what it is. Just that some craptastic collection of computer games I had as a kid included some Mahjong game < 1296416853 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally, a job for zzo38! < 1296416857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296416914 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1296416935 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Open the door and let me in!! < 1296416950 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Open the door and let me in!!!! < 1296416961 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shuts the door. < 1296416994 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296416994 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Open the door and let me out!!! < 1296417014 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Open the door and let me in!!!!!!!!!! < 1296417020 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The eternal battle between Helvetica and Arial: the two popular fonts are nigh indistinguishable to civilians, intolerably different to font snobs" < 1296417104 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Just let's use Computer Modern Sans Serif, then. < 1296417133 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unless, of course, you do not like Computer Modern Sans Serif) < 1296417140 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-179-189.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1296417174 0 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1296417180 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Yes, "giant clusterfuck" is way too optimistic at this point. < 1296417187 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1296417235 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1296417278 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now the time window to deploy it would be 7 months (and even that might be optimistic...) < 1296417285 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*deploy IPv6 < 1296417314 0 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1296417320 0 :cheater-!~cheater@g229031245.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1296417617 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296417711 0 :cheater-!~cheater@e181133189.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1296417777 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1296418033 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i thought about the language we were talking about and instead come up with possibly the most difficult to program language ever invented. I can't even tell if it's TC. < 1296418069 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Did you type the description? < 1296418129 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: not yet. it's certainly not wiki-ready < 1296418146 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1296418225 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the basic paradigm is that the only way to do computation is by rearranging the program itself, and the only non-I/O operation is "mark this character to be moved to the end of the program at the end of the next pass" < 1296418248 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka, the program never grows or shrinks, just permutes < 1296418272 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to figure out the best way to add conditionals to it to ensure maximum chances of TCness < 1296418308 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might need also some external memory if the program cannot grow/shrink because otherwise you have limited memory which means is not TCness < 1296418408 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, that's not true. i think i did come up with a way to make the program grow... < 1296418421 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. What is the way to make the program grow? < 1296418451 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :select the same character repeatedly to be moved to the end. it'll only be deleted once, but appended multiple times. < 1296418480 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that can work, I think. < 1296418531 0 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1296418543 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been thinking of new kind of chess pieces that when your piece is capable of capturing an opponent's piece of the same kind, their piece can never capture yours (if it was their turn). < 1296418583 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One kind is a Chinese cannon that jumps over only your own pieces, or a Chinese cannon that can jump over only opponent's pieces. < 1296418588 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so two bishops on the same diagonal are protected from one another, basically < 1296418605 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1296418640 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I am refering to new kind of pieces. One piece can capture the other but not the other way around. < 1296418647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Oh ffs. Mahjong scares me, and I don't even know what it is. Just that some craptastic collection of computer games I had as a kid included some Mahjong game < 1296418650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"scares"? < 1296418671 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it scare him as much as perpendicular lines? < 1296418698 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: so irreflexive attackness < 1296418698 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Do you know Chinese chess (Xiangqi)? < 1296418723 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1296418795 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Xiangqi there is one piece that can sometimes attack the opponent's piece of the same kind without being attacked back (but not always). The horse can do this. (Also, there is a way in which any piece other than the kings or advisors can, by having the target blocking the king's view; but this has to do with the rules and not with the pieces.) < 1296418851 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1296418877 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: OK. The horse in Xiangqi is like the knight in chess, but cannot jump over other pieces. The cannon moves like a rook when not capturing, but when it is capturing, there must be exactly one piece of any color in between the moving piece and the target piece. < 1296418897 0 :Zuu_!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1296418926 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1296418929 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1296418960 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xiangqi has a few other rules too. The kings and advisors must stay inside of their own palace, the elephants are not allowed to cross the river, and the kings are not allowed to look at each other. < 1296418962 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"scares" was the wrong word < 1296418979 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just... it puts me in mind of .. other games such as a 3d pacman thing < 1296418988 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-194-77.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1296418989 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I should look for that game < 1296419017 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1296419024 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I have played Pacman with 3D view, called 3-Demon. But other idea is to make a Pacman game with 3D grid instead. < 1296419033 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, that wasn't it < 1296419035 0 :Zuu_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1296419050 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a 3D grid like thing < 1296419056 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was nonfree in both senses, iirc < 1296419087 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1296419111 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Found the company < 1296419115 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That made the pack, anyway < 1296419125 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it seems to have changed focus < 1296419135 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Also, some collections have game titled "Mahjong", but it is not always a real mahjong game, some are actually a different game properly called "mahjong solitaire". Mahjong solitaire is not the same game as mahjong although the same tiles are used. < 1296419156 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nor is poker the same game as bridge, even though both games use the same cards.) < 1296419160 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I wouldn't know whether it was real Mahjong or Mahjong solitaire < 1296419225 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Real mahjong is played with four players. Mahjong solitaire is played by only one player. (Of course also they are entirely different games, but this is one way to tell the difference.) < 1296419240 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I never played the thing < 1296419245 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: we have differently-sized cards for bridge and poker < 1296419250 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just saw the name in the collection and got bored and moved on < 1296419280 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the collection was for mostly single-player games, I think < 1296419282 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Yes there are differently sized cards, although they are basically the same kind of cards, for many card games. < 1296419290 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although some of the games had multi-player modes < 1296419475 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have a collection of single-player computer games, which are free and Free, but some of them require a few modifications if you want to compile them on Free compilers. < 1296419495 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This collection is called the CGA Collection, and it is not yet complete.) < 1296419599 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1296419599 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1296419599 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1296419603 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1296419607 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1296419619 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1296419698 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invent a game called "Rust monsters has to eat, too" < 1296419779 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1296419916 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Zuu Danish? < 1296419931 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he is < 1296420028 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What country is ".dk"? < 1296420158 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1296420230 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1296420591 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how is it that database systems make complicated queries on structured files fast? < 1296420640 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the best computer games I have designed is probably Xnazzyball (unfortunately using a proprietary system that works only on Windows; later I might rewrite it in C/Enhanced CWEB). < 1296420666 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I don't know. Maybe some index tree? Is there a book about such things? < 1296420683 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there such a database program written by literate programming, then you can learn? < 1296420873 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha i doubt it < 1296420971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: indexes < 1296420972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1296421041 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no tree? < 1296421047 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296421107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure. < 1296421309 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1296421343 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1296421605 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like PBM file? (This is what TeXnicard uses as intermediate output. It goes .cards -> .tex & .mf; .mf -> .tfm & .*gf; .tex & .tfm -> .dvi; .dvi & .*gf -> .pbm & ImageMagick command-line; .pbm & ImageMagick command-line -> various output formats.) < 1296421670 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how close is texnicard to being as full featured as Magic Set Editor? (in terms of the aspects that aren't specific to MTG) < 1296421710 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : bool isAnswer(int num) { return (num == 42 ? true : false);} < 1296421713 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalms < 1296421730 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone else noticed... < 1296421747 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1296421751 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty dumb < 1296421753 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sry dood < 1296421759 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't be awesome every time < 1296421767 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: That is unfortunately a difficult question to answer. The best way is to look at the code and decide for yourself (since you may have different measures?). < 1296421799 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i've never used MSE, so i can't really compare myself :P < 1296421884 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately it takes a while to write (I think I have most of the core program done except for most of the GF/DVI stuff, but the Plain TeXnicard metatemplate is probably very incomplete. I am currently doing the GF/DVI stuff. < 1296422024 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1296422033 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: However, if you would like to help with any parts of it (including documentation, testing, templates, suggestions, discussion, etc) you can notify me and I will add your repo.or.cz username into the Extra repository. < 1296422053 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you just missed me explaining how I made a fool of myself in another channel < 1296422066 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO < 1296422115 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, your brain has been POISONED by IMPERATIVE THINKING. < 1296422191 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not even sure of the use of the isAnswer function, except possibly where function pointers are used (and the "?true:false" part is unnecessary) < 1296422290 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do need some help with some parts of TeXnicard, so please notify me if you can help with this kind of stuff!! < 1296422395 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know one feature MSE has specific to Magic: the Gathering, is the command to export to Apprentice; I am not sure if there are others. With TeXnicard, exporting to Apprentice must be done in a template just like any other exporting must be. < 1296422737 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kthx zzo38 but i don't care about card games really < 1296422896 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: OK, but do you know anyone else who might help with these kind of things? < 1296422938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know my long lost half-brother's cousin, Melvinoid. < 1296422939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is an expert. < 1296422960 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Expert at what? < 1296422972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything you mentioned. < 1296423011 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Is he on this IRC? < 1296423015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1296423027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could send him some mail but he lives in Africa so the post takes a long time to arrive. < 1296423122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Sorry, he actually does not exist. < 1296423138 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, don't listen to elliott. < 1296423157 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is backpedalling so that he can keep Melvinoid to himself. < 1296423158 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes it is strange to know your long lost half-brother's cousin, I was partially doubting his existence. < 1296423188 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But it is possible some people do) < 1296423194 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He doesn't exist because you murdered him. < 1296423207 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, voices don't transmit over IRC < 1296423224 0 :church!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1296423226 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If you have a microphone in your computer, you can record it. < 1296423263 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :church, hi < 1296423349 0 :church!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is everyone < 1296423351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :church: WHERE IS TURING < 1296423377 0 :church!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dead, son. < 1296423390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :church: SO ARE YOU, ALONZO < 1296423398 0 :church!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mwop mwop mwop < 1296423404 0 :church!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the how am I watching SCTV < 1296423414 0 :church!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not even on the AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIR < 1296423421 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When did church die? < 1296423451 0 :church!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :199jive < 1296423482 0 :church!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :omen < 1296423496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omen: it's da truth < 1296423511 0 :omen!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :womp womp wommmp < 1296423524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitchen < 1296423534 0 :omen!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so whats so esoteric about this place then < 1296423551 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omen: Esoteric computer programming. < 1296423573 0 :omen!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: haha, serious? < 1296423583 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omen: Well, sort of. < 1296423587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1296423590 0 :omen!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1296423591 0 :omen!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1296423599 0 :omen!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a program named Esoteric? < 1296423604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using programs to create magicke. < 1296423606 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omen: No. < 1296423608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm TOTALLY NOT LYING) < 1296423613 0 :omen!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whaaaaaaaat < 1296423622 0 :omen!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hhwaaat < 1296423622 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omen: See the wiki for more information: http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/ < 1296423659 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, a lot of things are discussed in this channel, not only esoteric computer programming. < 1296423698 0 :omen!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1296423702 0 :omen!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where do i go < 1296423724 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omen: Read the various pages in the wiki to learn some things. < 1296423739 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Try the page titled "Esoteric programming language" if you want a description) < 1296423788 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An esoteric programming language is a computer programming language designed to experiment with weird ideas, to be hard to program in, or as a joke, rather than for practical use." < 1296423821 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omen: Does that help? < 1296423824 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omen, esoteric programming is that which is too crazy to use. < 1296423850 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so BancSTAR is considered esoteric? < 1296423867 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, *and too awesome to throw up at < 1296423880 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So PSOX is not esoteric? < 1296423896 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not everyone has quite the same ideas of what is esoteric programming. < 1296423914 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because there is some ambiguous areas. Sometimes you can say some are quasi-esoteric. < 1296423985 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it really as bad as all that? < 1296424002 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Sometimes. < 1296424021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX is just boring and lame. < 1296424050 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX is not a programming language, it is a I/O layer. < 1296424075 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still esoteric programming, just not a language < 1296424114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arguably, the things you send to it are programs. < 1296424164 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would PSOX2, as once described here, have been more of a language? Or the same < 1296424242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less, I think. < 1296424247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it'd just forward the input on. < 1296424271 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we're thinking of two different PSOX2s < 1296424279 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant the one with the turing-complete thingy < 1296424485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking about the one that is catbus. < 1296424535 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also things, such as, dc has something similar to the STASH and RETRIEVE commands in INTERCAL, as well as something similar to the RESUME command in INTERCAL. < 1296424588 0 :omen!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1296424692 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omen: Do you know dc or INTERCAL? INTERCAL is the first esoteric programming language, while dc is a UNIX arbitrary precision desk calculator program. < 1296424820 0 :omen!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1296424830 0 :omen!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of this < 1296424853 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learn INTERCAL, then: http://esolangs.org/wiki/INTERCAL < 1296424866 0 :omen!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ... < 1296424879 0 :omen!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why would I do that < 1296424892 0 :omen!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if you are already so informed < 1296424893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omen sounds boring, let's scare him away. < 1296424904 0 :omen!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1296424911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :For the intelligent (and not-so-intelligent) discussion of ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES ONLY | http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ < 1296424913 0 :omen!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can try < 1296424916 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omen: Just in case you are interested, that is only. < 1296424920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omen: That line was not a line about esoteric programming languages. < 1296424943 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :For the intelligent (and not-so-intelligent) discussion of ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES ONLY | http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1296425073 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1296425168 0 :omen!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the record < 1296425180 0 :omen!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more melancholy and bored < 1296425185 0 :omen!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than scared, thanks. < 1296425190 0 :omen!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1296425193 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMMIT < 1296425197 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shoots elliott  < 1296425216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what? < 1296425233 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deliberately pshing people away annoys me < 1296425236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he obviously had not interest in programming or esolangs < 1296425238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no < 1296425247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1296425251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mwop mwop mwop < 1296425251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the how am I watching SCTV < 1296425251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : its not even on the AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIR < 1296425251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : When did church die? < 1296425252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 199jive < 1296425258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^^ anybody who says these lines is a terrible person < 1296425281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evidence of no interest, apart from the fact that he had no idea what the channel was about: < 1296425281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Learn INTERCAL, then: http://esolangs.org/wiki/INTERCAL < 1296425281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : zzo38: ... < 1296425282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and why would I do that < 1296425282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : especially if you are already so informed < 1296425311 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0L40f39bPII < 1296425324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ergo... < 1296425349 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, that's me posting one of those "funny youtube videos") < 1296425387 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emu root? < 1296425390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Maybe this is what Vorpal is really like. < 1296425398 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: one can only hope < 1296425412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: IRC is the only place he can act normal. well ok vaguely normal. < 1296425447 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1296425508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what < 1296425512 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1296425518 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1296425522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the butt < 1296425592 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what what what what in the butt"? I don't think that's how it goes < 1296425728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1296425943 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1296426711 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1296426758 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huston said failure rate of 6to4 is 15% on reverse path... That would imply total failure rate of something like 30%... < 1296426871 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1296426886 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Dang. < 1296426950 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder what's failure rate on backward path if forward path is good... < 1296427195 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, for provoding "native" IPv6, there's choice of "last mile" technology... < 1296428366 0 :th3b0m!th3b0m@CPE-124-183-101-252.lns14.ken.bigpond.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1296428947 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a freaking CF was handling that swine flu... Major shoot-in-the-foot for vaccination programs... < 1296429115 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm? < 1296429425 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1296429430 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could someone help me? < 1296429442 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :th3b0m: With what? < 1296429456 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna make a permanent irc channel... < 1296429467 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :th3b0m: On Freenode? < 1296429473 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1296429490 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First you need to register with NS REGISTER and then register the channel with CS REGISTER. < 1296429498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :th3b0m: #freenode < 1296429501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not a support channel < 1296429512 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Use NS HELP REGISTER for help about registration of nickname, and CS HELP REGISTER for help about registration of channel.) < 1296429522 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, like elliott said, the support channel is #freenode not this one. < 1296429534 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ok thankyou for helping me < 1296429582 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NS HELP REGISTER < 1296429616 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just tryed doing that and it said i hadnt joined a channel... < 1296429630 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :th3b0m: You might have to enter /RAW before the command, some IRC clients require that. < 1296429631 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :join #freenode < 1296429642 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1296429651 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you might have to use a menu. Some IRC clients use menus. < 1296429891 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1296429911 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i got the registration of my nickname working correctly < 1296429932 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :K-Lined < 1296429941 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :th3b0m: You need to complete the verification. < 1296429946 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was : /RAW NS REGISTER (password) (my email) < 1296429959 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should receive an email message that contains the verification code and instruction about how to complete verificiation. < 1296429966 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i no but the e-mail hasnt arrived yet < 1296429980 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, then you must wait for that before you can register the channel. < 1296429993 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea < 1296430001 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can i password protect the channel? < 1296430006 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember this IRC network is meant for Free software/Open source projects, so most channels created should have something to do with that. < 1296430021 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :th3b0m: Yes, you can password protect the channel: MODE (channelname) +k (password) < 1296430028 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Again, enter /RAW before the command) < 1296430034 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah my channel does < 1296430036 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1296430069 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i no stuff about hacking, and coding not irc stuff lol < 1296430079 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so thanks for ur help < 1296430101 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :th3b0m: Good, because computer programming is the main purpose of this IRC network. < 1296430113 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhu < 1296430128 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and our prposes for this channel < 1296430133 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should support < 1296430135 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it < 1296430170 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. However, although I can help you on this channel, the proper channel for discussing inquiries about this IRC network is the #freenode channel. < 1296430172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :th3b0m: "hacking". < 1296430193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1337 hax0rz? W3 are l00king for Dz33em! < 1296430205 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4r3 y0u < 1296430206 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1296430239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :th3b0m: y3sZ < 1296430239 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can discuss hacking on your channel too, as long as it is related to the Free software and that you are not discussing anything illegal. < 1296430252 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1296430253 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do not use this network for illegal discussion. < 1296430275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :th3b0m: j01n us... type /j #2,000 < 1296430282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bcause we are two thousand str0ng < 1296430287 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0k < 1296430317 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did t work? < 1296430326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :th3b0m: hmm, no < 1296430338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :th3b0m: there is a secret way to get in, try /join 0 < 1296430345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't tell anybody ;) < 1296430348 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1296430363 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel is logged anyone can read that. And anyways that won't work < 1296430373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank god < 1296430383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've got a lot of off-topic morons today... < 1296430393 0 :th3b0m!th3b0m@CPE-124-183-101-252.lns14.ken.bigpond.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1296430400 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes we have. < 1296430404 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it failed... < 1296430410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :th3b0m: no it worked, you have to wait five minutes after doing it < 1296430416 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :th3b0m: No it won't work. < 1296430429 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The correct way is to type "#freenode" instead of "0" < 1296430455 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do can u give me the exact code for me to use? < 1296430461 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so itll join me < 1296430496 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric : < 1296430503 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :th3b0m: I don't know the name of your channel. < 1296430504 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops! < 1296430506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :th3b0m: yes, type this: /part of us < 1296430506 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill fix it < 1296430515 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :For the intelligent (and not-so-intelligent) discussion of ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES ONLY | http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1296430517 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric : For the intelligent (and not-so-intelligent) discussion of ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES ONLY | http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=DFor the intelligent (and not-so-intelligent) discussion of ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES ONLY | http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1296430520 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :For the intelligent (and not-so-intelligent) discussion of ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES ONLY | http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1296430533 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /part of us < 1296430549 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it leaves the channel! < 1296430570 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not know the code to use to join your channel. Use your own channel name in place of the this one and read the XChat documentation for more help. < 1296430572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :th4t's b3cause y0u are not yet 4uthentic4ted < 1296430614 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im authenticated now < 1296430619 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just got the e-mail < 1296430633 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :th3b0m: OK. Now use the CS REGISTER command to register your channel. < 1296430642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :th3b0m: authenticated with our hax0rzz! < 1296430676 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how many diff channels can i have? < 1296430685 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliot: how do i authenticate? < 1296430707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :th3b0m: you must disconnect and reconnect in an hour...i've started the process now < 1296430708 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :th3b0m: You have already authenticated. I do not know how many channels you are allowed to have, ask that question on #freenode < 1296430770 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just did < 1296430800 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks guys for ur help < 1296430814 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, how do u then join the channel when it has a password? < 1296430825 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :th3b0m: Give the password after the channel name in the JOIN command. < 1296430829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :th3b0m: it's impossible < 1296430948 0 :th3b0m!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kk < 1296431658 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric