< 1297468876 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: shutter2 beats it because almost all my decoys are multiples of 3 :P < 1297468896 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1297468898 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust superfast_jellyfish +>>>>(+)*33<(-)*65<(+)*91<(-)*128>>>>>>>>([-[++[(+)*15[(.-)*3]]]]>)*21 < 1297468913 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I just wanted to see what happened when you changed it to a three-cycle wait; a lot of the defenders die to it < 1297468920 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for quintopia_superfast_jellyfish: 38.7 < 1297468923 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It would be nice to be able to say {} in comments :P <-- you could do ((...{}...))%0 . oh wait, what about (({{}}%)%0 < 1297468931 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ** < 1297468934 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. correction to * < 1297468951 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (({a{b}c})*0)*0 < 1297468952 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT NOW, GOD < 1297468999 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: except n should be a positive integer <-- hm actually i recall that with _multiple_ {}'s, you must stop at 1 because the {}'s may not contain the same thing < 1297469081 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gergor: oh well i guess there is little harm in making ()%0 a comment always < 1297469098 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust i_like_turtles (+)*11>>>>(+)*33<(-)*65<(+)*91<(-)*128>>>>>>>>([-[++[(+)*15[.-]]]]>)*21 < 1297469107 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just use "" < 1297469115 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd make sense and be simple < 1297469118 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for quintopia_i_like_turtles: 59.3 < 1297469123 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ < 1297469139 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: no lame < 1297469146 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais has approved of *0 as comments < 1297469155 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: WHOOPS, not #1 anymore are you < 1297469160 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lamer than abusing loop syntax for a not loop < 1297469162 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1297469165 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: () isn't loop < 1297469166 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's repeat < 1297469169 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 repeat = nothingness < 1297469172 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just don't use {} and it's fine :P < 1297469177 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTFWTFWTF < 1297469180 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: DAMN YOUUUUUUUUUUU < 1297469188 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha he owned all your programs huh < 1297469192 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Just write i_like_i_like_turtles < 1297469193 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1297469194 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it go down the hill < 1297469197 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'll return < 1297469199 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another top program that maglev beats < 1297469208 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Dude, he's WAY ahead! < 1297469218 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: maglev is superfast. i can't catch it < 1297469221 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah big scores < 1297469224 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact mapping_turtle is the only one above maglev that it doesn't beat < 1297469227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gergor: turtle_neck_to_neck, is what i want to see < 1297469261 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well now we know about your secret turtle fetish. < 1297469268 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turtle_necking < 1297469349 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where are they stored? < 1297469405 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait; how does maglev even work if you don't know how big the playing field is? < 1297469414 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust quapping_turtle -(>(+)*10>(-)*10)*4>([(+)*118(+.)*20.+>]+>[(+)*118(+.)*20.->]->)*11 < 1297469428 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_quapping_turtle: 49.2 < 1297469437 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figured :( < 1297469449 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The >(.+)*10000 at the end is just a tiebreaker against shudder if you're wondering about that < 1297469457 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1297469457 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust quapping_turtle < < 1297469467 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_quapping_turtle: 0.0 < 1297469474 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw < 1297469485 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i liked having a program named after me by someone else ;P < 1297469540 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1297469549 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust itsalaser (+)*20>[(-)*10>]([[+][+.]])*100 < 1297469581 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for coppro_itsalaser: 15.2 < 1297469583 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust itsalaser (+)*20>([(-)*10>][[+][+.]])*100 < 1297469614 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for coppro_itsalaser: 16.3 < 1297469684 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust antidefend13 >+(>(+)*100)*7(>[(-)*128[-.]])*22 < 1297469686 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust < 1297469687 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ < 1297469694 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beats it on every polarity and tape length. < 1297469696 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congratulations plz. < 1297469708 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gergor_antidefend13: 23.5 < 1297469709 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, I'm as Gergor. < 1297469710 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliott < 1297469716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Can you rename that one? :-P < 1297469720 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to re-Gergor to < it < 1297469725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gergor < 1297469729 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust antidefend13 < < 1297469730 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliott < 1297469736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust antidefend13 >+(>(+)*100)*7(>[(-)*128[-.]])*22 < 1297469744 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Screw ou < 1297469747 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you < 1297469750 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gergor_antidefend13: 0.0 < 1297469767 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_antidefend13: 22.8 < 1297469773 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust itsalaser (+)*20>([(-)*10>][+]--+++++)*100 < 1297469783 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1297469784 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for coppro_itsalaser: 7.6 < 1297469794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, I beat every ais defend* program on every possible configuration except for defend14 and dfend7, both of which I still beat. < 1297469796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*defend7 < 1297469818 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust itsalaser (+)*20>([(-)*10>][-]--+++++)*100 < 1297469823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: What was that about "NO PROGRAMS ON THE HILL" < 1297469832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I developed that one by thinking LOGICALLY and analysing TRACES on EgoJSout! < 1297469834 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for coppro_itsalaser: 7.6 < 1297469842 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1297469844 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I predict lameness: < 1297469848 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust quapping_turtle -(>(+)*10>(-)*10)*4>([(+)*96(+.)*64.+>]+>[(+)*96(+.)*64.->]->)*11 < 1297469855 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's how i write mine too! < 1297469858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, antidefend13's points are -15. < 1297469864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But its score is 23 because defend13 is so good :P < 1297469865 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_quapping_turtle: 45.6 < 1297469870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not lameness. < 1297469873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, you've failed at lameness. < 1297469878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm disappointed in you. < 1297469883 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the size range of the playing field? < 1297469887 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10-30 < 1297469903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1297469907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust decoytuner < < 1297469909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope that doesn't work < 1297469910 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust itsalaser (+)*20>(->+>-->++>)*2([(-)*10>][-]--+++++)*100 < 1297469913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has it saved :P < 1297469924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust decoytuner >+>+>->>>>(>[>-[++[+[----[(-)*118(.-)*16(>(-)*120(.-)*16)*18](+>--[++++[(+)*118[+]]])*19](+>++[----[(-)*118[-]]])*19](+>+[--[(-)*119[-]]])*19](+>-[++[(+)*119[+]]])*19])*20>[[-]][-]>[[-]][-] < 1297469925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliott < 1297469952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Did it... ignore me? < 1297469954 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for coppro_itsalaser: 4.5 < 1297469955 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523_decoytuner: 28.4 < 1297469955 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523_decoytuner: 28.4 < 1297469959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... what. < 1297469962 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that actually suffered? < 1297469964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It got 28.4 by being "<"? < 1297469988 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust itsalaser (+)*10>((-)*10>(+)*10>)*2([(-)*10>][-]--+++++)*100 < 1297470003 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for coppro_itsalaser: 4.5 < 1297470009 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, I see what I am doing wrong < 1297470011 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrmmmmm < 1297470011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This laser strategy looks good. < 1297470012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1297470025 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn you, brainfuck, for not doing what I want < 1297470093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Looks like egojsout has a bug. < 1297470098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, no. < 1297470113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, yup. < 1297470114 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :egojsout is incapable of bugs. < 1297470115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, nope. < 1297470123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Are you sure that two programs modifying the same cell work? < 1297470129 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1297470138 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to loop on zero, not on non-zero < 1297470153 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be a handy thing to loop on, wouldn't it < 1297470160 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOO BAD < 1297470170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Eh? < 1297470179 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What eh? < 1297470258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : That would be a handy thing to loop on, wouldn't it < 1297470259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : TOO BAD < 1297470278 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you eh'ing me < 1297470290 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not eh'ing you < 1297470301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What would be a handy thing to loop on < 1297470302 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gawd dammit < 1297470304 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's /ignoring who < 1297470307 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waitaminute < 1297470310 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can totally hack this < 1297470314 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me guess: elliott <-> coppro? < 1297470316 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: he's caught some canadian disease < 1297470321 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: oh < 1297470327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm /ignoring scrappy because scrappy ignored me and then started restricting his topics of discussion on-channel to how I was ignored < 1297470327 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /ignore elliott < 1297470332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, 80% of his topics, at least) < 1297470362 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case, DON'T EH ME IF YOU ONLY HEAR HALF A CONVERSATION < 1297470386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Normally I don't because coppro never speaks. < 1297470388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANd I read it as: < 1297470392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: Are you sure that two programs modifying the same cell work? < 1297470392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yes < 1297470392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : That would be a handy thing to loop on, wouldn't it < 1297470402 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g228060063.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1297470402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which just confused me, without realising I was missing a conversation, which is a pretty impossible thing to realise. < 1297470408 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Assume that when I say something, it makes sense < 1297470420 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, when it doesn't make sense, you're obviously missing a conversation < 1297470428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But that rule doesn't apply to 90% of people in the channel < 1297470433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who don't make sense on a regular basis < 1297470438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't get special-cases, sir < 1297470447 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the conversation _might_ be something only Deewiant hears, of course < 1297470474 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust itsalaser ((-)*10>(+)*10>)*2>([[-]..--+++++](-)*10>)*100 < 1297470510 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust itsalaser ((-)*10>(+)*10>)*2>([[-]..--+++++]++>)*100 < 1297470536 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for coppro_itsalaser: 15.0 < 1297470536 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for coppro_itsalaser: 15.0 < 1297470562 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust itsalaser ((-)*10>(+)*10>)*2>([[+]..--+++++]>)*100 < 1297470575 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297470581 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust itsalaser (>)*9>([[+]..--+++++]>)*100 < 1297470601 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust itsalaser (>)*9([[+]..--+++++]>)*100 < 1297470613 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for coppro_itsalaser: 11.9 < 1297470613 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for coppro_itsalaser: 11.9 < 1297470614 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for coppro_itsalaser: 11.9 < 1297470618 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1297470623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust < 1297470624 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ < 1297470637 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust itsalaser (>)*9([[+]..--+++++]+>[[+]..++-----]->)*20 < 1297470661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Sorry about that outburst, but it is for your own good, as #esoteric is not a very noob-friendly channel, and you can expect to receive abuse at the drop of a hat. | http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1297470686 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for coppro_itsalaser: 1.9 < 1297470738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is it chrome, or is holy shit egojsout laggy < 1297470808 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1297470929 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DON'T GO TO #ESOTERIC, YOU FUCKING IMBECILE, YOU'LL JUST GET ABUSED YOU MORON < 1297470948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(source: http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=68422 while googling for "bf joust") < 1297470958 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm hoping that's the message they get from it < 1297470965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember when we claimed to be the only channel friendlier than #haskell? < 1297470966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HA HA HA < 1297470968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fixed that < 1297470987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm preparing to be nice again in about a month, now that the influx of idiotic newbies has died down >:D < 1297470996 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1297471003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well apart from oerjan. < 1297471006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is the constant idiotic newbie. < 1297471025 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@_@ < 1297471038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@_@ < 1297471039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^ < 1297471040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~_~ < 1297471105 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Haven't tried it in Chrome. < 1297471143 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Seems pretty fast to me. < 1297471155 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Do you have full-run ties? They take a long time regardless. < 1297471159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No. < 1297471163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it's actually laggy sometimes after running a program. < 1297471168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I have to restart Chrome or whatever. < 1297471171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Laggy as in UI laggy. < 1297471177 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your Chrome is broken :P < 1297471207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1297471242 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ran out of CO2, so I just made some sugar-citric_acid-water. It's not bad :P < 1297471334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust vermillion http://sprunge.us/KUWC < 1297471341 0 :nescience!~myndzi@m6e0e36d0.tmodns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297471421 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_vermillion: 2.9 < 1297471435 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow < 1297471442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What < 1297471452 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good score :P < 1297471455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Totally. < 1297471679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Are you suuure I have to distinguish {} ()s and regular ()s? < 1297471683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don't want to >_> < 1297471712 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could choose whether to subtract or add in the ) when you follow back to the } or ( I suppose ... < 1297471721 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's certainly some way around it, but it's probably grotty :P < 1297471884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THINGS MY PARSER CURRENTLY ACCEPTS: ([)*1] < 1297471902 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: note that non-{} )'s are pretty much like {'s, you could just share that implementation < 1297471910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm quite possibly < 1297471918 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THINGS MY PARSER CURRENTLY ACCEPTS: [()$q < 1297471931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeaaaaah, lance's parser is rejecting non-strictly-well-formed programs for sanity :P < 1297471944 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's good :P < 1297471949 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@unaffiliated/poiuy-qwert/x-0506151 JOIN :#esoteric < 1297472075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Apparently ([)*1] increments its flag on the third turn and then does nothing forever. SOMEHOW. < 1297472089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably the ] is writing the loop position to the wrong place or whatever and it just so happens to be the + instruction :-P < 1297472090 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1297472121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also (+)*128 generates "Unknown instruction 128". < 1297472129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I FEEL CONFIDENT ABOUT MY PROGRAM REPRESENTATION < 1297472131 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1297472134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It doesn't use a struct.) < 1297472136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's just a list of ints.) < 1297472142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It... seemed like a good idea at the time.) < 1297472146 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoJSout is OBJECT ORIENTED < 1297472147 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : THINGS MY PARSER CURRENTLY ACCEPTS: ([)*1] <-- that does not seem like something you want to do :D < 1297472168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I using a list of ints X-D < 1297472168 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: THINGS MY PARSER CURRENTLY ACCEPTS: [()$q < 1297472171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH WELL, IT STAYS < 1297472181 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: O KAY < 1297472450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>FE 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 <80 -- >0, <9 < 1297472450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>FF 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 <80 -- >0, <9 < 1297472450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 <80 -- >0, <9 < 1297472450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 <80 -- >0, <9 < 1297472450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 <80 -- >0, <9 < 1297472451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 <80 -- >0, <9 < 1297472452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :===================== < 1297472456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How on earth does that end the match... < 1297472492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1297472687 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably didn't clear your loss flag right < 1297472889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i so did < 1297472909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: more importantly, the program is (+)*128 :P < 1297472915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, off-by-one. < 1297472920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. one of the hard things in CS. < 1297472966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha. < 1297472973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it's actually an optimisation trick. < 1297472995 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1297472996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: if both programs reach the end, i end in a tie. but actually i should only do that if the death counter expires, hmm < 1297473015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (hasended[0] && hasended[1] && !deathcount[0] && !deathcount[1]) return 0; < 1297473015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1297473449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, () work. Now for {}. < 1297473461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hmm, oerjan's trick only works when you keep an explicit loop stack at execution time, right? < 1297473538 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1297473582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Which I don't, yay :P < 1297473638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hmm, does that mean that I can't even figure out the matching ] at parse-time? < 1297474000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wait, no. Don't I just have to kee ptrack of the _number_ of nested loops? < 1297474022 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need a counter per loop. < 1297474190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hmm, yeah. That's weird... uh, you realise that by loop stack I mean [] loop stack? < 1297474192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not () loop stack < 1297474197 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH < 1297474202 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a [] loop stack < 1297474205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1297474207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't need it then. Yay. < 1297474221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But then how do you handle ([{a}])*3? < 1297474233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAICT without a loop stack, that won't nest thrice. < 1297474299 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is why you have to do the count-up count-down thing. < 1297474317 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're counting down during the second part, then you can jump back naively and still be on the correct [ < 1297474327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmmm, right. < 1297474334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically, (...{ and }...) are the two nesters :P < 1297474438 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1297474480 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i like the interface changes on bfjsout. making it obvious the arrows are links is a nice touch. < 1297474496 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do some program make a error only when it is not running in the debugger? < 1297474506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Because of witches. < 1297474520 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Glad I could help you beat me :P < 1297474577 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: < 1297474581 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Witches? < 1297474590 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Fascinating. < 1297474602 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to paste something and it won't < 1297474606 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bug i think < 1297474624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ time ./lance '(+)*10000000000000000000' '(+)*10000000000000000000' >/dev/null < 1297474624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real 0m0.548s < 1297474629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: SO HOW SLOW IS EGOJOUST ON THAT PROGRAM < 1297474632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1297474644 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm...i think bfjsout is now in an infinite loop >_> < 1297474645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: P.S. lance: so advanced it supports repeats up to maximum cycle count, not just 12 or whatever it is egojoust's limit is < 1297474649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P.P.S. trollin < 1297474652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*trollin' < 1297474657 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GAH < 1297474661 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION kills the browser < 1297474671 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whiches? < 1297474703 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1358: 0 <90 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 FF 8A 88 9B 76 08 0A 0A >FD 0 < 1297474707 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1359: 0 <90 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 FF 8A 88 9B 76 08 0A 0A >FD 0 < 1297474710 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1361: 2 <91 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 FF 8A 88 9B 76 08 0A 0A FE 0 < 1297474714 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1360: 0 <91 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 FF 8A 88 9B 76 08 0A 0A >FE 0 < 1297474717 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1297474728 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had to kill your page with had frozen to get the text copied from it < 1297474752 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a program shouldn't jump from 0 to 2 losses with its flag at 91 should it? < 1297474767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lance doesn't crash your browser because it doesn't touch your browser. discuss. < 1297474781 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finish it and give it to me < 1297474785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing so :P < 1297474799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except just the runner, I want to get a full EgoBot-ready solution before writing the helper. < 1297474891 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfjsout wouldn't kill my browser either if it didn't have a major lock-up-causing bug in it < 1297474898 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey, that's what js is for, isn't it? < 1297474902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :precisely! < 1297474953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Would you hold it against me if I used an actual parser generator for lance rather than hacking up this awful thing? X-D < 1297474993 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1297474996 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: have you already written up the grammar? < 1297474998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why < 1297475001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: The grammar is beyond trivial. < 1297475011 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAVE YOU WRITTEN IT DOWN < 1297475011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that my current parser accepts ([)*n], which is just perverse. < 1297475013 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Because it's loser. < 1297475021 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I would still accept Lance into EgoBot of course. < 1297475026 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But I would eternally shame you. < 1297475029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lance < 1297475030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's totes lowercase. < 1297475049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's EUNUCHS philosophy, in contradiction of Gregor's SUCK philosophy. < 1297475054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION unbias < 1297475063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sucklosophy. < 1297475068 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LANCE < 1297475073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L.A.N.C.E. < 1297475095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Luxurious, yet Anal, Noodly Cervix Enabler < 1297475096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what < 1297475106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That acronym was GOING to be about BF Joust < 1297475374 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like Acronyms are Not Coherent from Elliot < 1297475375 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1297475427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG MAYBE I CAN STORE THE NESTING STRUCTURE AS A BITFIELD INSTEAD < 1297475429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDD < 1297475434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a fuckin geni < 1297475437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plural of: geniuses < 1297475470 0 :R0b0t1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not realize how hardcore brainfuck programming could get. < 1297475491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF Joust is the only legitimate use of brainfuck :P < 1297475500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Every other use became tired years ago) < 1297475589 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, it's still useful for proving other (stateful) languages TC < 1297475598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1297475603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Proving -- depends on your definition of TC.) < 1297475621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Only proves TCness if the language {P} where P is a UTM simulator is TC; this is a matter of debate.) < 1297475650 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty well accepted that BF on an infinite tape can simulate arbitrary TMs < 1297475717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: that isn't the point < 1297475725 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is? < 1297475728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: s/P is a UTM simulator/P is a brainfuck interpreter/ < 1297475744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: the debate is: does a language have to have a simulator for /all/ Turing machines to be TC, or is a simulator for just one enough? < 1297475751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, at least, takes the former position < 1297475797 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see the difference between "can simulate a UTM" and "can simulate all TMs"? < 1297475825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: can simulate a UTM /with a specified initial input/ < 1297475837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point being that, you can have a program that takes a TM specification on stdin and simulates it < 1297475840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't pre-rig a program to do that < 1297475848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm glossing over the issues, it's actually a rather fundamental disagreement IMO < 1297475854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but rarely an important one < 1297475870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you're unlikely to find a non-contrived example of a language with a BF interpreter that doesn't have a program for every TM < 1297475872 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've not seen it discussed before. < 1297475885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: we fleshed it out in here some weeks / month ago :P < 1297475897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when trying to articulate just what the disagreements about the definition of turing-completeness are < 1297475950 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, because if you can simulate any BF program, then you can simulate the BF TM simulator, which you can use to simulate any UTM, which you can use to simulate all TMs... < 1297475957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong < 1297475966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, right < 1297475969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a program template < 1297475974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ foo ",[.,]" } < 1297475976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you can plug in any BF program < 1297475979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get a program that runs that < 1297475981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that's sufficient < 1297475982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you just have < 1297475983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ foo } < 1297475989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where that program takes a BF program as /input/ and runs it < 1297475997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that's insufficient, by the must-have-program-for-all definition < 1297476010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can't construct a program that does the same as the BF program +[>+] < 1297476018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or, you might be able to, but the mere existence of { foo } does not demonstrate it) < 1297476022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see? < 1297476029 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost < 1297476038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, 99% of BF interpreters will allow you to transform the latter type into the former < 1297476049 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhhh < 1297476050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but again, consider the language with one operation, where all programs consist of one instruction < 1297476051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the operation is: < 1297476054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run_bf_program_on_input < 1297476065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's arguable whether this language counts as TC, as there is not a program for every TM < 1297476078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a program for one specific universal language (brainfuck) < 1297476136 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's slipping away... < 1297476148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ok, the disagreement is very academic :P < 1297476197 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like there should be a program for every TM. namely, the BF UTM with that TM pre-written to the tape to be simulated by the BF UTM < 1297476223 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by pre-written, i mean, the sequence of BF instructions that write it) < 1297476231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but again, consider the language with one operation, where all programs consist of one instruction < 1297476232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the operation is: < 1297476232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : run_bf_program_on_input < 1297476235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is exactly one valid program < 1297476238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run_bf_program_from_input < 1297476239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*from, not on < 1297476245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is exactly one program. < 1297476248 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhhhhhhh < 1297476250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore there is not a program for every TM. < 1297476270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this program simulates a UTM (well, no, but equivalent). but you cannot write a program to simulate an arbitrary TM. < 1297476301 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is almost like the battle over whether the 5,3 TM is universal...because its TCness depends critically upon its input < 1297476338 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's the question of what it means to encode a TM...whether or not the encoding itself handles all the TCness of it < 1297476370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5,3? < 1297476372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*2,3 < 1297476381 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that. well, anyway, we've established that there are 2 good uses for BF < 1297476384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: but, err, it's almost exactly like it, because ais523 is the one who proved the 2,3 TM turing complete < 1297476388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he's the one who helped flesh it out < 1297476391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, do you actually know that? < 1297476394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you don't necessarily < 1297476429 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, no i didn't know that. i'm not exactly surprised. if i'd ever heard his name mentioned, i'd probably have recognized it. < 1297476438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alex smith < 1297476452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, apparently there's a wired article about it < 1297476721 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He also enjoys composing electronic music" where is this music? :P < 1297476730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: when questioned he has been < 1297476732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXCEEDINGLY < 1297476733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ELUSIVE < 1297476735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about the matter. < 1297476765 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm ahhh ehhh right the music umm < 1297476780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE DISCUSSING THE MUSIC < 1297476786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AT THIS POINT IN TIME < 1297476795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT UNTIL THE STATUE OF LIMITATIONS RUN OUDID I SAY ANYTHING NOOOPE I SAID NOTHING < 1297476805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOUR EARS MUST BE DECEIVING YOU. HA. HA. < 1297476863 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1297476865 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my ears < 1297476870 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are defective < 1297476876 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is why i am unable to hear the music < 1297476915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: drinking game for you < 1297476916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cs.nyu.edu/pipermail/fom/2007-October/012149.html < 1297476919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drink whenever wolfram links to his own book < 1297476925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prepare to become very, very drunk < 1297476935 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've read through this thread before < 1297477107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[That could be because cellular automata date back to the 1950s, Aaronson says. "The impact of NKS on all the areas of computer science and physics I'm familiar with has been basically zero," he says. "As far as I can tell, the main impact is that people now sometimes use the adjective 'Wolframian' to describe breathtaking claims for the trivial or well-known." Davis offers a sunnier take: "The book has a lot of beautiful pictures."]] < 1297477110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that last sentence < 1297477111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :priceless < 1297477237 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lul < 1297477430 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NKS? < 1297477462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: new kind of sexytime. sorry science. < 1297477494 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it does have pretty pictures. < 1297477512 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't read it < 1297477517 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by which i mean < 1297477524 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't admired the pretty pictures < 1297477646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, my parser is approaching something more stable. < 1297477651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A New Kind of Stability. < 1297477702 0 :R0b0t1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: R0b0t1 < 1297478096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ time (for i in $(seq 100); do ./lance '(+)*10000000000' '(+)*10000000000' >/dev/null; done) < 1297478097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real 0m10.167s < 1297478103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Does EGOJOUST offer that kind of RAW SPEED PERFORMANCE? < 1297478187 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS IT DONE YET < 1297478195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: ALMOST < 1297478211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need to add {} loop support, port report.c to it, and port the !bfjoust command to it. < 1297478244 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get the bfjoust command automatically, really < 1297478261 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you change the name of report, you might have to change one line in the shell script for the command < 1297478268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!info < 1297478269 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot is a bot for running programs in esoteric programming languages. If you'd like to add support for your language to EgoBot, check out the source via mercurial at https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/ . Cheers and patches (preferably hg bundles) can be sent to Richards@codu.org , PayPal donations can be sent to AKAQuinn@hotmail.com , complaints can be sent to /dev/null < 1297478304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to find the command < 1297478315 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the relevant line is ../report ../cache ../egojoust *.bfjoust < 1297478318 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all you need to change < 1297478330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads. < 1297478332 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in scmds/bfjoust or something like that < 1297478357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Do you run the report with... a post-commit hook? < 1297478368 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, no < 1297478374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 38 # Wait for the score to exist < 1297478374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 39 ( < 1297478374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 40 while [ ! -e ../cache/"$I_FILE".bfjoust.score ] < 1297478376 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Report does the committing, it's run by egobot < 1297478382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that about then < 1297478391 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good job understanding bash. < 1297478402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I just mean, what creates it. < 1297478407 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :report < 1297478413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's run in the background :P < 1297478428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, admittedly the bfjoust command itself just needs s/egojoust/lance/ or whatever :P < 1297478659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fprintf(stderr, "%d : Oi -- you have a {, but you're not in a ( block. If I were you, I'd make sure my family doesn't hear about this.\n", n); < 1297478660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY ERROR MESSAGES < 1297478663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY JUST KEEP < 1297478663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GETTING < 1297478665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BETTER < 1297478704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: { and } don't have to store any counts or anything with them, right? < 1297478705 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ -- /—/ < 1297478713 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Right < 1297478724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not even the location of the other }, yah? < 1297478735 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly not that. < 1297478738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: nou < 1297478741 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{} never jump to each other. < 1297478753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: " -- " looks nicer, especially in a monospaced medium where -s are wide. < 1297478763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Besides, as a Brit, I put thin spaces around em dashes. < 1297478784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: AND THAT'S HOW I LIKE IT. < 1297478801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TBH, I usually prefer the en dash simply because the em dash is pretty damn wide. < 1297478820 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"According to [...] some British sources (e.g., The Oxford Guide to Style), an em dash should always be set closed (not surrounded by spaces)." < 1297478844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"some" < 1297478851 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oxford" < 1297478864 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :en-GB-oed spelling goes with Oxford style < 1297478867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The Brit thing was a joke. < 1297478871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I never specified -oed. < 1297478880 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do. < 1297478885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[The Canadian The Elements of Typographic Style recommends the more concise spaced en dash – like so – and argues that the length and visual magnitude of an em dash "belongs to the padded and corseted aesthetic of Victorian typography."]] < 1297478891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Canada. < 1297478893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Canada hates you. < 1297478899 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screw Canada. < 1297478901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[The spaced en dash is also the house style for certain major publishers (Penguin, Cambridge University Press, and Routledge among them, all British).]] < 1297478902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[The spaced en dash is also the house style for certain major publishers (Penguin, Cambridge University Press, and Routledge among them, all British).]] < 1297478903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[The spaced en dash is also the house style for certain major publishers (Penguin, Cambridge University Press, and Routledge among them, all British).]] < 1297478906 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't even have Internet these days. < 1297478907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: CAMBRIDGE. < 1297478911 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OXFORD. < 1297478915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: PENGUIN < 1297478916 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :en-GB-cam? What's that? < 1297478922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE MOST PRESTIGIOUS UNIVERSITY IN ALL ENGLAND < 1297478939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Fucking FONTophiles. < 1297479026 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sugar_philip http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=0ppQDKzt < 1297479047 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_sugar_philip: 1.9 < 1297479053 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, really? < 1297479070 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor < 1297479077 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :were you even paying attention at all < 1297479085 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Yes, that's why I wrote this. < 1297479094 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a substantial improvement, at least by egojsout < 1297479096 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you fix the bug first? < 1297479105 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I guess I wasn't paying attention :P < 1297479126 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :egojoust does not support ({})% correctly < 1297479134 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhh < 1297479136 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet :P < 1297479137 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expand all that stuff manually and try again < 1297479160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No < 1297479161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: More importantly < 1297479163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That page is HTML < 1297479165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And starts with a < < 1297479174 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH < 1297479176 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pastebin made of fail. < 1297479177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How it gets more than 0 points, I have no clue. < 1297479178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: sprunge.us < 1297479178 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next time try a sprunge < 1297479180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Srsly. < 1297479193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the only way to stay sane :P < 1297479195 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I edited it in egojsout, I don't have it so conveniently in a file. < 1297479210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Write some PHP as a post form to sprunge :P < 1297479210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just < 1297479212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even php < 1297479228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1297479234 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: make it so you can submit programs FROM bfjsout! < 1297479235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Save as ~/sprunge.html :P < 1297479248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But usually I just do < 1297479249 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Stop saying "bfjsout" < 1297479254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ curl -F 'sprunge=<-' sprunge.us < 1297479255 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how do you get back the link title? < 1297479256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[middle click] < 1297479257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^D < 1297479267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: It'll be in the response you get < 1297479268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So just submit < 1297479282 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sugar_philip http://sprunge.us/jjJS < 1297479286 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. neatsauce < 1297479303 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_sugar_philip: 38.9 < 1297479308 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bad < 1297479310 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1297479334 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a sugar philip < 1297479340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A penis. < 1297479347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Made out of ... sugar. < 1297479350 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should have known < 1297479362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor is all about the sugar penises. < 1297479377 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now what's this bug about expanding ({}) that isn't a crashbug? < 1297479457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: See: the messages oerjan sent you via lambdabot that you ignored :P < 1297479494 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was a crashbug, not a correctness issue. < 1297479505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Nope :P < 1297479519 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well then screw you guys for not making that clear X-P < 1297479540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We did, you were all "OH BUT, LANCE WILL SAVE THE DAY" ... which it will. < 1297479557 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, it results in failure to parse on certain matches where the brackets get expanded too much < 1297479577 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and failure to parse is the PROGRAM'S FAULT SO THE PROGRAM LOSES < 1297479766 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sugar_philip http://sprunge.us/CjZH < 1297479783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In lance, failing to parse aborts the battle immediately :P < 1297479805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, because it comes from the SANE principle of software design, rather than the WTF principle of software design that Gregor employs in everything and that's why his life is meaningless and empty, devoid of all emotion. < 1297479807 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_sugar_philip: 4.2 < 1297479813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: WHAT AN IMPROVEMENT < 1297479814 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1297479818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1297479821 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was supposed to be testing the fix. < 1297479866 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which didn't work, as I win against different things here than in EgoJSout < 1297479868 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1297479875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE OF LOGIC < 1297479913 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't i say egojsout? there is no reason here for me to exert the tremendous effort required to reach for the shift key < 1297479917 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just get lance done already :P < 1297479921 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: You were saying bfjsout < 1297479921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I am :P < 1297479924 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: bfjsout is wrong. < 1297479929 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1297479933 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a bit drunk < 1297479937 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermindme < 1297479938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just debugging a RATHER CURIOUS parser bug, because fucking hell, everything is a fucking parser. < 1297479944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All programs have been reduced to parsing. < 1297479950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the sorry state of the fucking field we're in. < 1297479951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, what? < 1297479977 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sugar_philip http://sprunge.us/LHaP < 1297480002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust < 1297480002 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ < 1297480004 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really large decoys will eff up sugar_philip a lot. < 1297480010 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_sugar_philip: 24.4 < 1297480012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, egojsout is really quite awesome :P < 1297480024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes the strategy of programs so clear. < 1297480093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I like how (+)*-1 still works in EgoJSout... is that on purpose? :-P < 1297480098 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup :P < 1297480102 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of an easter egg :P < 1297480125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Arguably -1 should be code for "forever" ... admittedly, that's totally faggy, since it reduces the purpose of a large class of loops, but it's already possible because of the cycle limit. < 1297480127 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's equivalent to -? < 1297480133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: no, *100000000000000 < 1297480135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1297480149 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's dumb < 1297480161 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So's your face, but you don't see us complaining about that. < 1297480164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it's like that in egojoust. why's it dumb. < 1297480164 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+)*-n should be (-)*n :P < 1297480175 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...lol < 1297480180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :approve < 1297480184 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would make the metagame easier to write for < 1297480187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Figgrrred out what causes the LAGS in Chrome. < 1297480194 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? < 1297480196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: DON'T CLICK BREAKDOWN ELEMENTS BEFORE ALL THE RUNS COMPLETE < 1297480200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT WILL DESTROY YOUR SOUL < 1297480213 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh really? I thought I'd fixed that >_> < 1297480227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BTW, could you redirect codu.org/bfjoust to the right place? I keep having to !bfjoust :P < 1297480230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I could bookmark it. < 1297480237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, do I have to shift-refresh or w/e < 1297480250 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on how long it's been since you updated it I suppose :P < 1297480255 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That fix was actually a fair bit ago. < 1297480260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the first time I loaded it, which was when it came out :P < 1297480268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAVEN'T YOU EVER HEARD OF APPENDING ?VERSION TO THE URL, BOY < 1297480271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(JS URL THAT IS) < 1297480272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOY < 1297480290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just tried it again after refreshing in numerous ways, same problem, runs still stop trickling in. < 1297480322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Or maybe it's like GC or something ... after a tie, my browser goes all fuxilaggy. < 1297480326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scrolling is painful. < 1297480340 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The runs are supposed to stop trickling in if you click one, it's forced to stop. < 1297480349 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it shouldn't become laggy, just switch gears. < 1297480402 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... unless ... < 1297480444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 880: 0 75 81 81 7F ED 12 FF 01 00 X80 0 < 1297480444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 999: 0 75 81 81 7F ED 12 FF 01 00 XD4 0 < 1297480465 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...??? < 1297480633 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is bug, gregor < 1297480637 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole thing < 1297480639 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bug < 1297480886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that was just my quote for my prog :P < 1297481269 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, I actually did fix the bug, I just forgot that egojoust IS sensitive to *-vs-% :P < 1297481278 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sugar_philip http://sprunge.us/YgVQ < 1297481383 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_sugar_philip: 27.3 < 1297481405 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor: sugar philip pushed vorpal_shudder off the hill :D < 1297481414 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sugar_philip http://sprunge.us/iPFe < 1297481422 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny, I just want to push quintopia_* off ;) < 1297481429 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you knocked me WAY down from 1st. < 1297481444 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you're about to push quintopia_when_will_it_explode off < 1297481446 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun < 1297481558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: wat < 1297481643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gahh, this is hard. < 1297481843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, this might actually work < 1297482028 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sugar_philip http://sprunge.us/FeRb < 1297482036 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Got tired of waiting :P ) < 1297482045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust mexican_wave >>>+<<(>>[[-]+>[-]+>]+[<<])*-1 < 1297482065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This program does something I haven't seen any other program do. < 1297482076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, it visits two cells more every iteration of the "loop". < 1297482081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By doing a BF-tape style thing. < 1297482093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in "encoding tapes into BF". < 1297482094 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it'll fail in at least half of the tape lengths? :P < 1297482104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Nope. < 1297482108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Because it clears both cells. < 1297482120 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the first cell is the flag, doesn't it wander off? < 1297482126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Run it and another program in egojsout, you'll see what I mean by "wave". < 1297482128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no. < 1297482133 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okidoke. < 1297482143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It used to be a bit less of a lopsided wave before I added more stuff.) < 1297482162 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_sugar_philip: 31.2 < 1297482163 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_sugar_philip: 31.2 < 1297482168 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_mexican_wave: 1.1 < 1297482173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yaaaaay < 1297482180 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, mexican_wave causes EPIC FAILURE in sugar_philip sometimes. < 1297482183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howso < 1297482219 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try to avoid getting into a tight [+] loop by backing off, but you make me back off into my own decoys. < 1297482228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1297482267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I love how leisurely the normal polarity, 30-length sugar philip vs mexican wave run is. < 1297482283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mexican_wave just starts clearing all these cells slooooooooooooooooooowly while you sit around wasting time. < 1297482329 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, I pretty epically fail there don't I :P < 1297482423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I just made a modified mexican_wave that kills sugar_philip ... ... after 8804 turns. < 1297482429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is ... pretty epic. < 1297482450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mexican_wave fills the whole tape with crap as slowly as possible while sugar_philip sort of... tags along? < 1297482460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, 11045 turns maximum. < 1297482472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy shit, more. < 1297482479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 18911 turns. < 1297482494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Run sugar philip against this: < 1297482494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>>+<<(>>[(-)*128[+](+)*128>(-)*128[+](+)*128>]+[<<])*-1 < 1297482498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Polarity inverted, tape length 30. < 1297482500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Observe the madness. < 1297482508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust in_mexico_trains_are_slow >>>+<<(>>[(-)*128[+](+)*128>(-)*128[+](+)*128>]+[<<])*-1 < 1297482558 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_in_mexico_trains_are_slow: 4.8 < 1297482564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1297482577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From beating sugar_philip, basically. < 1297482581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, entirely. < 1297482585 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1297482594 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should set higher goals :P < 1297482595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sugar_philip is now #25 X-D < 1297482816 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sugar_philip is very experimental X-P < 1297482846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*crap < 1297483035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey Gregor, have you been breaking my parser again < 1297483617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: LANCE: TOTES ALMOST READY < 1297483693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Should I just support -1 as a synonym for maximum, or -anything? IMPORTANT DECISIONS < 1297483712 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A BAJILLION AND A HALF < 1297483720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: THAT'S NOT AN ANSWER < 1297484350 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, saw molecular diagrams of vitamin D3 and cholesterol (there's only one kind) side by side. Took a while to spot the differences. < 1297484379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Woo, just have to implement the actual bodies of ({}) and it's done. (Plain () works.) < 1297484425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So let me get this straight. ( pushes 0 on one stack, and its iteration count on another stack. } checks the first stack; if it's reached the iteration count, it's a nop (no popping), otherwise, it increments the value on top of the first stack, and goes back after the matching (. < 1297484426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right? < 1297484441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then }) does the same, except checking for 0, and decrementing. < 1297484488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Or do I only need one stack? < 1297484521 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, Cholesterol has C(CH3)C group, Vitamin D3 has C(CH2) .. CH - One hydrogen in different place and one bond in different position. < 1297484529 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust high_fructose_corn_philip http://sprunge.us/FNgE < 1297484534 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I am now too tired to judge that :P < 1297484541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Just gueeeesss < 1297484545 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_high_fructose_corn_philip: 53.7 < 1297484545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Do you need one stack or two < 1297484547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For ({}) < 1297484559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you need two, because ( has to push its maximum iteration, so that { can check it. < 1297484560 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just one. < 1297484569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How does { know when it's iterated enough? < 1297484569 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#3 :) < 1297484591 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to store the count somewhere it can get to. < 1297484605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i.e. on a stack (for nested ({})s) < 1297484608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1297484643 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohohoh < 1297484648 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, then you need two stacks :P < 1297484656 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just happen to be storing those inline in my object format :P < 1297484694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I could store them inline, but then { would have to scan backwards, would it not? < 1297484709 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I store that inline too :P < 1297484714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Of course what I COULD do is put a pointer to the ( in { instructions, and put a pointer to the ) in } instructions. < 1297484719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that what you do? < 1297484724 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1297484729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kay. < 1297484742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My parser is... quite thoroughly ugly. < 1297484817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Man, how do you get the pointer to the ) into }s. < 1297484823 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297484825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems like it'll be totally fugly for my parser. < 1297484846 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually stored everything I needed in (, including the location of ), and just go via there. < 1297484866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, good idea :P < 1297484873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (That's... so cheating.) < 1297484886 0 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric < 1297484906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : *into++ = whole_into[whole_into[j-1]]; < 1297484910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indirection, it's what's for dinner. < 1297484954 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1297485101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wait, why does ( need to know where ) is? < 1297485107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I store the repeat count in (... for some reason... < 1297485114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm really fucking confused. < 1297485125 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( needs to know where ) is for *0 < 1297485148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ha, currently I don't even handle *0, it's... an infinite loop X-D < 1297485156 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust high_fructose_corn_philip http://sprunge.us/dNYZ < 1297485158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So (x)*0 = xxxxxxxxxxx... < 1297485165 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice < 1297485168 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_high_fructose_corn_philip: 0.0 < 1297485171 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtfbbq < 1297485201 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, egojoust doesn't support ({})-nesting right hyuk X-P < 1297485286 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust high_fructose_corn_philip http://sprunge.us/TFbD < 1297485301 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_high_fructose_corn_philip: 52.9 < 1297485308 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one was better < 1297485329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: rewrite my parser < 1297485339 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'kay < 1297485373 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust rapping_turtle < < 1297485383 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_rapping_turtle: 0.0 < 1297485411 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why you killin' the turtle wrapper? < 1297485470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./lance '' '({})*3' < 1297485470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 : Oi -- your program has an unmatched . You can't just bash random keys and expect it to work! < 1297485474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An unmatched... what, exactly? < 1297485500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BTW, I fully intend to make sure !bfjoust reports these amazing complaints to the submitter. You have been warned. < 1297485509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is may payment for writing such an amazing piece of software. < 1297485511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*my < 1297485520 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Got too many on the board. < 1297485539 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they all too similar? < 1297485772 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Had three in the turtle family, two in the philip family. < 1297485774 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now have two in each. < 1297486065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey Gregor guess what I BROKE < 1297486072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohh < 1297486072 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OOOH WHAT < 1297486074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duh! < 1297486075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: IT. < 1297486170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Basically lance's parser is fucking everything up and it's 5 am. < 1297486171 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something happened to me. < 1297486179 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sweet. < 1297486180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: What, exactly? < 1297486192 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ate an entire box of pasta. I'm still hungry. < 1297486200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An ENTIRE BOX?!?!?!?! < 1297486204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are we talking: < 1297486212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Box you'd store a speck of dust in < 1297486221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Cardboard box you'd store something from Ikea in < 1297486225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Box size of house < 1297486229 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 servings of 2 oz of pasta < 1297486233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- The cardboard box surrounding the universe < 1297486264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... need supporters for my religion which says that the universe is surrounded by a cardboard box. < 1297486320 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust high_fructose_corn_philip http://sprunge.us/URVI < 1297486338 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_high_fructose_corn_philip: 58.3 < 1297486350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I have done what no man thought possible < 1297486359 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stretches. < 1297486361 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good to be king. < 1297486367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO MAN THOUGHT POSSIBLE < 1297486396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I have turned (foo)*N into (foo)*0. < 1297486397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For everything. < 1297486400 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If no man thought of it at all, then no man thought it possible < 1297486405 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lawl < 1297486467 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice one < 1297486476 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the philip idea is quite clever < 1297486489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's retarded, because I made it do stupid things ;) < 1297486512 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: It still depends fundamentally on this rather durptarded inner loop that's broken if you change your flag too much :P < 1297486522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"durptarded" < 1297486524 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, avoids decoys much better than the turtles. < 1297486526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A new addition to my lexicon. < 1297486537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully, one that will soon be purged. From the collective memory. Of everyone. Forever. < 1297486593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man... what is wrong with this. < 1297486595 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor: yeah, it's a nice way of speeding up the careless idea < 1297486619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at trace _what_ < 1297486779 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it'd be tough to beat both quintopia's stuff and the decoyboosters with the careless Philip the turtle strategy. < 1297486801 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1297486825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Draw Philip the turtle please < 1297486832 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cannot draw :P < 1297486850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Get that person who drew that existentialism one < 1297486852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make him do it < 1297486854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FORCE him < 1297486858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must see Philip the turtle < 1297486866 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But he's SO careless durpadurp < 1297486947 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, in spite of it turning out that it is careless' strategy, I didn't take it from there, I thought of it independently. < 1297486950 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do at least manage to beat ALL of my serious entries with fructose < 1297486955 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1297486960 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the only reason I'm #1 :P < 1297486973 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My points are substantially lower than #2, but I beat #2, #3, #4 :P < 1297486993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I imagine him smiling, with his eyes slightly further apart than a person of normal intelligence would have, walking in a way that could only be achieved with a complete misunderstanding of the way feet work. < 1297486994 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs, folds his hands < 1297486998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still. Smiling. < 1297487009 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1297487021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO CUTE. < 1297487091 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION draws < 1297487159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: MAKE SURE HE'S CUTE. < 1297487179 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does a turtle smile < 1297487184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: HAPPILY. < 1297487257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: lance will be all done for EgoBot integration tomorrow probably. < 1297488170 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1297488188 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In some US states allowing for common-law marriage, there is no requirement that the parties be male and female. < 1297488203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297488527 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here in GA, we don't let little loopholes like that slip through. we past CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS declaring gay marriage to be EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN < 1297488647 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://imgur.com/yQN9j < 1297488956 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, this is the first time I've ever felt like oggenc at default settings REALLY let me down. < 1297489029 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/tmp/death-2011-02-12.ogg Anyway, what does somebody who isn't an audiophile think of this as a "death ditty" < 1297489032 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a video game < 1297489106 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless people die by waking up from a dream, it sucks < 1297489111 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing deathy about it < 1297489118 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a very mellow game. < 1297489133 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell the person making this game to include careless Philip the turtle < 1297489140 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_X < 1297489193 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i know why it doesn't sound deathy < 1297489196 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too regular < 1297489214 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't tweaked the tempo yet at all, it definitely needs to be tweaked. < 1297489250 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just sitting here i've hummed a few things with a similar harmonic structure that sound far more deathy < 1297489612 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I wonder what full faith and credit has to say about that. < 1297489674 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what you mean there < 1297490036 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/tmp/death-2011-02-12-2.ogg Bleh, I shouldn't try to finesse rhythm at 1AM after being awake from 8AM X_X < 1297490038 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sleep* < 1297490050 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nainai < 1297491235 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY GOD WHY < 1297491259 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A sequel to Manos: The Hands of Fate. < 1297491277 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is considered by many to be the worst film. < 1297491345 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1297491353 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where can i get the MST3K of it? < 1297491391 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was only able to find it on Google Videos. < 1297491426 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Said Google Video upload is actually official. < 1297491437 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Low-quality, but nevertheless. < 1297491449 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, well, there's also the "complete MST3K" torrents. < 1297492239 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1297492539 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: AndroidIrc Disconnecting < 1297494552 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow gregor < 1297494557 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i couldn't geet code like that to work < 1297494559 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats ;p < 1297494595 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kinda what i wanted to do with careful but i wasn't having much luck writing it properly... or at least i didn't think that such ridiculous exponential expansion would fly < 1297495120 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235033089.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1297496910 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh i have what could be a pretty good idea < 1297496916 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do i have such ideas when i'm trying to sleep though?! < 1297496929 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually more of an extension of an idea but whatever < 1297497599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1297497600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1297502317 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1297502344 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1297505150 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1297505396 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-2-123.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297505477 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: Hmm, yeah. That's weird... uh, you realise that by loop stack I mean [] loop stack? < 1297505552 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically you don't need a loop stack either, you could save the current count somewhere associated with the loop, since it cannot be entered twice simultaneously. not that that is any simpler. < 1297505582 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a () loop stack < 1297505602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, for running. for parsing is a different matter. < 1297505631 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you need two stacks for parsing, although one could be replaced with recursion.) < 1297505931 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: Would you hold it against me if I used an actual parser generator for lance rather than hacking up this awful thing? X-D <-- ah. that may be a problem since the language isn't CF. (see previous comment) < 1297506016 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i guess you could use a parser generator for one half, and track the ({}) matching separately. < 1297506415 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : quintopia: the debate is: does a language have to have a simulator for /all/ Turing machines to be TC, or is a simulator for just one enough? <-- note that commonly accepted TC models where the input must be encoded into the program, such as the lambda calculus, cannot possibly make a meaningful distinction between these < 1297506513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. in my view this distinction is wholly based on fixing a particular notion of I/O for the model, something which may be an absurd restriction for purely mathematical models. < 1297506544 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although turing machines themselves do have a distinction between program and tape < 1297506588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*between machine and tape < 1297506713 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1297506738 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1297506762 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:34:20 quintopia: when questioned he has been < 1297506762 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:34:21 EXCEEDINGLY < 1297506762 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:34:23 ELUSIVE < 1297506779 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conclusion: he composes electronic music for porn films < 1297507190 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1297507945 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1297508352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: So let me get this straight. ( pushes 0 on one stack, and its iteration count on another stack. } checks the first stack; if it's reached the iteration count, it's a nop (no popping), otherwise, it increments the value on top of the first stack, and goes back after the matching (. < 1297508377 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh you must pop if you want to support my beautiful (({{}})*)* notation :( < 1297508399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in {) < 1297508503 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, only one stack < 1297509736 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1297510011 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297510033 0 :cheater-!~cheater@g230228018.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1297510417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i'm trying to find an example that (({{}})%)% is actually useful < 1297510442 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the first program i downloaded the other day, ais523_attack7.bfjoust < 1297510442 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>)*5(+)*40<(-)*40(>)*4(>[+[+[+[+[-----[-[-[-[-](-)*122[-.]]]]]]]]])*21 < 1297510497 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(first alphabetically, that is) < 1297510541 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huston estimate for APNIC depletion is August 15th. Has been coming nearer in last few days. < 1297510607 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297510644 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah fuck that doesn't need more than ordinary ({}) :( < 1297510677 0 :cheater-!~cheater@g228061084.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1297510731 0 :Tritonio!~TrT@150.140.231.220 JOIN :#esoteric < 1297510874 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1297511114 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1297513390 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297513454 0 :cheater-!~cheater@e181134095.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1297514119 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix_wiggle2 would have been a good candidate for (({{}})) if it was slightly more ordered instead of trying that hard to be unpredictable < 1297514497 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well at least i am assuming it is unpredictable, i didn't look at _that_ much of it < 1297514674 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries simplifying with s/// < 1297515151 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235033089.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1297515216 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297515224 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g230230031.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1297515509 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, if there is a pattern to how jix alternates the +, - and other things in there, then it probably can use (({{}})%)% for simplification, but if it's not repetitive then it cannot. < 1297515539 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there are obvious patterns, but they seem to have a random element at first glance) < 1297517612 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1297520734 0 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cci-209150237034.clarityconnect.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297523086 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Why are you not here now :P < 1297523102 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :high_fructose_corn_philip's canonical implementation uses (({{}})) < 1297523133 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works on egojsout, but not egojoust < 1297523461 0 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1297523674 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Y'know you're all the way down to fifth now, right? < 1297523678 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: You gonna take that? :P < 1297523690 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'll have to, I'm kind-of busy at work < 1297523696 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, I care more about playing than winning < 1297523824 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297523829 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1297523850 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1297524064 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1297524178 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1297524215 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, "egojsout"? < 1297524232 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/egojsout/ < 1297524241 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1297524255 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : besides, I care more about playing than winning <--- what, someone actually believes that playing is more important than winning < 1297524274 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, you know what. Sometimes you remind me of Carrot from the Discworld books. < 1297524292 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but I don't know the name of everyone in the universe < 1297524336 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, indeed. But in many other aspects... < 1297524405 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, you seem to act the way everyone think is a good idea but no one does. Like believing that playing is more important than winning. Everyone says that. But very few actually act like they really think that. < 1297524425 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it depends on where the interest of the game is < 1297524444 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I play nomic to win, not because I like winning for the sake of it, but because the win conditions are normally designed to be things that are interesting to aim for < 1297524464 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I tend to value manipulating a win for someone else as highly as manipulating a win for myself < 1297524468 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it takes the same sort of skill < 1297524481 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1297524584 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1297524825 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sucralose_philip http://sprunge.us/dVNA < 1297524890 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has high hopes for sucralose_philip :) < 1297524914 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1297524957 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I did a silly little egojoust-implementation experiment too: http://p.zem.fi/5zkw + http://p.zem.fi/bd54 [the name is a bit stolen from elliott and far too pompous, but try to disregard that] < 1297524958 0 :p_q!~poiuy_qwe@unaffiliated/poiuy-qwert/x-0506151 JOIN :#esoteric < 1297524985 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_sucralose_philip: 56.0 < 1297524992 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: egojoust IS an implementation, surely you either mean "bfjoust-implementation" or "egojoust-reimplementation" < 1297524999 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the latter. < 1297525014 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bahahaha, even less points than HFCP, even higher score (though not by much) < 1297525025 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it does egojoust-specificly the all-tape-lengths-and-polarity-flippery thing. < 1297525056 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pff, that should be considered canonical BF Joust now :P < 1297525075 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297525103 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sugar_philip < < 1297525119 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_sugar_philip: 0.0 < 1297525125 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nice to see an esolang evolve < 1297525220 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also nice to see my competitors dominate the hill >: ) < 1297525275 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to do another defend9-based program sometime, I think it could do quite well < 1297525292 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adjusted to work versus current strategies rather than really old strategies < 1297525298 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, how do you read ">: )"? Noseless with horns, or uncanonical-orientation sharp-frowny highbrow? < 1297525299 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not now, as you can tell from my nick I'm not on my own computer < 1297525347 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Smiley with evil eyebrows < 1297525370 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the... the empty space where your nose should be. Surely that's not a normal face. < 1297525372 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I make it noseless so that clients that turn :-) into a graphical smiley don't turn >:-) into a horrible abomination. < 1297525403 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that makes 'sense'. < 1297525759 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust julius_freezer (+(-)*2(+)*3(-)*5(+)*7(-)*11(+)*13(-)*17)*100000 < 1297525811 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297525819 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_julius_freezer: 20.6 < 1297525879 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better than I expected. < 1297525894 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also inverted HFCP and sucralose_philip :P < 1297525914 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's in third-to-last place X-P < 1297525918 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll just let it die :P < 1297525938 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that yet another shudderer? < 1297526024 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, just wanted to see if things had changed w.r.t. other strategies :P < 1297526041 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I know that both the turtles and the philips don't do well against shuddering. < 1297526154 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do the phillips work? < 1297526228 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1297526249 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They try to adjust the cell within a small range (+-8ish?) using []-loops, and if that fails they try a turtle-style thoughtless addition. sucralose_philip additionally switches to steamroller if it finds four big decoys. < 1297526327 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that's more or less how decoytuner works < 1297526349 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard coming up with genuinely innovative ideas nowadays; rule_of_nine was one, but it's rubbish < 1297526364 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1297526388 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the idea was to look at where an opponent attacked to deduce the location of its flag, because nearly all programs start attacking nine squares from their flag, where the first possible location for the enemy flag is) < 1297526408 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1297526415 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If their attack is []'d though, that's borklebork :P < 1297526433 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust oneway_shudder (+++++++++++++++)*1000 < 1297526451 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curious way to write that :P < 1297526453 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: well, it had to try to set a decoy on every cell of the tape in order to get round the problem < 1297526458 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think that's where the issue is < 1297526459 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I made that as spin_me_right_round at one point. < 1297526471 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: someone told me that egojoust cut off repeats after a while < 1297526484 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523__oneway_shudder: 13.0 < 1297526495 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust oneway_shudder ((((((+)*10)*10)*10)*10)*10)*10 < 1297526500 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: 100K < 1297526500 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's make sure < 1297526538 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to see the amazing drawing ability of that program < 1297526547 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, what it draws to on one polarity, and what it loses against < 1297526547 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1297526592 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523__oneway_shudder: 13.1 < 1297526627 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust lead_acetate_philip http://sprunge.us/RBIF < 1297526641 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: note the difference in score between the two versions < 1297526641 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_lead_acetate_philip: 54.2 < 1297526649 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: It was running on a different hill. < 1297526662 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK < 1297526669 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sucralose_philip < < 1297526682 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_sucralose_philip: 0.0 < 1297526701 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow that let wireless_frownie back into spot #2 :P < 1297526704 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, some turtle names that IIRC you haven't used yet: strapping; scrapping; slapping < 1297526705 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I want to undo that X-D < 1297526715 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm done with turtles though :P < 1297526719 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust lostkng http://p.zem.fi/lostkng < 1297526724 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The most sensible thing.) < 1297526725 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: lawl < 1297526733 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that actually made me laugh out loud < 1297526749 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing I'm the only person in the office right now (= good thing it's Saturday) < 1297526777 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is lostkng? < 1297526783 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for fizzie_lostkng: 0.4 < 1297526787 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Run it in a standard BF interpreter. < 1297526787 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a game? < 1297526789 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, lostkng's beating more or less everything on tape lengths 11 and 14 < 1297526791 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, a non-zero score. < 1297526801 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and losing to most things on most other tape lengths < 1297526802 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i don't wanna. just tell me what it was? < 1297526826 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a text adventure < 1297526833 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was my guess < 1297526836 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a rather difficult one, too; I never got very far in it < 1297526844 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sucralose_philip http://sprunge.us/dVNA < 1297526850 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't it the longest BF program ever written? < 1297526856 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it wasn't written.. < 1297526860 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_sucralose_philip: 51.8 < 1297526862 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did remove the [-][.] part that it had in the start. < 1297526863 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust lead_acetate_philip < < 1297526866 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was generated < 1297526875 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_lead_acetate_philip: 0.0 < 1297526887 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heywhatthe D-8 < 1297526893 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO LEAD ACETATE PHILIP I NEEEEEEEED YOOOOOOOOU < 1297526901 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust lead_acetate_philip http://sprunge.us/RBIF < 1297526901 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: auto-generated? < 1297526909 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Compiled. < 1297526911 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_lead_acetate_philip: 53.6 < 1297526914 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sucralose_philip < < 1297526929 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_sucralose_philip: 0.0 < 1297526994 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust anti_decoybooster (>)*8(>[[>]>((-)*120(.-)*16)*20])*21 < 1297527008 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523__anti_decoybooster: 0.0 < 1297527013 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...??? < 1297527015 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch, that bad? < 1297527016 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1297527042 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it loses to decoybooster < 1297527049 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION debugs < 1297527053 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were trying to beat the ones that put decoys in reverse order? < 1297527092 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1297527093 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yep < 1297527131 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust anti_decoybooster (>)*8(>[[>](>[(-)*120[-]])*20])*21 < 1297527145 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523__anti_decoybooster: 10.0 < 1297527151 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, should probably have a double tripwire there < 1297527160 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no, it isn't necessary < 1297527165 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust tape_length_15_ahoy >>>>>>>>>>>>>(-)*128.([-]>)*16 < 1297527168 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best - idea - ever < 1297527187 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bindun < 1297527192 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_tape_length_15_ahoy: 1.4 < 1297527197 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY < 1297527205 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: INB4STFU < 1297527209 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust anti_decoybooster (>)*5(>[[>](>[(-)*120[-]])*10])*24 < 1297527224 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523__anti_decoybooster: 15.0 < 1297527229 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just realised that if I'm detecting decoys, I probably shouldn't be skipping them... < 1297527276 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodpoint :P < 1297527303 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :experiment time! < 1297527314 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust wireless (>)*8+<-<(+)*18<(-)*19(<(-)*127<(+)*127)*2<(-)*17(>)*9([[[[-[++[(+)*9.[.-].[.++-------]]]]]]]>)*21 < 1297527327 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one does beat hfcp but i dunno if it does well < 1297527342 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for quintopia_wireless: 49.6 < 1297527351 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shakes his fist. < 1297527353 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah not so well :P < 1297527366 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: No, but its defeating HFCP twiddled the leaderboard. < 1297527384 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I needed those points :P ) < 1297527386 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust triple_tripwire_avoider (>[>>(>(-)*120[-])*21])*29 < 1297527397 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see how well large tripwire avoiders do on the current hill < 1297527397 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lap is till winning! < 1297527399 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523__triple_tripwire_avoider: 10.8 < 1297527412 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust double_tripwire_avoider (>[>(>(-)*120[-])*21])*29 < 1297527426 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523__double_tripwire_avoider: 23.8 < 1297527495 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not bad < 1297527495 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust double_tripwire_avoider (>)*4(>[>(>(-)*120[-])*21])*22(>++[-])*3 < 1297527510 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523__double_tripwire_avoider: 20.0 < 1297527516 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder why that did worse? < 1297527530 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 17 is actually the smallest thing i can decrement my flag by and still beat hfcp. it's not vulnerable to small changes in timing at all < 1297527543 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust double_tripwire_avoider (>)*4(>[>(>(-)*120[-])*21])*23(>++[-])*2 < 1297527558 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523__double_tripwire_avoider: 20.9 < 1297527567 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust double_tripwire_avoider (>)*3(>[>(>(-)*120[-])*21])*24(>++[-])*2 < 1297527585 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523__double_tripwire_avoider: 21.0 < 1297527597 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust double_tripwire_avoider (.)*32(>)*4(>[>(>(-)*120[-])*21])*23(>++[-])*2 < 1297527602 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just trying an idea here... < 1297527609 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523__double_tripwire_avoider: 20.1 < 1297527612 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust wireless (>)*8+<-<(+)*18<(-)*19(<(-)*127<(+)*127)*2<(-)*11(>)*9([[[[-[++[(+)*9.[.-].[.++-------]]]]]]]>)*21 < 1297527617 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go. back how it was. < 1297527618 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust double_tripwire_avoider (+)*32(>)*4(>[>(>(-)*120[-])*21])*23(>++[-])*2 < 1297527634 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for quintopia_wireless: 48.7 < 1297527635 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523__double_tripwire_avoider: 20.1 < 1297527647 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. that does worse. :P < 1297527656 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: You've gotta stop wandering DOWN the hill :P < 1297527660 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust wireless (>)*8+<-<(+)*18<(-)*19(<(-)*127<(+)*127)*2<(-)*17(>)*9([[[[-[++[(+)*9.[.-].[.++-------]]]]]]]>)*21 < 1297527664 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINE < 1297527676 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor_high_fructose_corn_philip.bfjoust vs ais523__double_tripwire_avoider.bfjoust: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ais523__double_tripwire_avoider.bfjoust wins < 1297527685 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for quintopia_wireless: 50.6 < 1297527691 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: You make me sad :P < 1297527706 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Uhh ... proceed wandering down the hill ... < 1297527711 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also beats one of the turtles and ties with the other one < 1297527732 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: And lead_acetate_philip? < 1297527743 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust i_like_turtles (+)*17>>>>(+)*33<(-)*65<(+)*91<(-)*128>>>>>>>>([-[++[(+)*15[.-]]]]>)*21 < 1297527746 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beats it on all 42 configs too < 1297527763 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for quintopia_i_like_turtles: 53.1 < 1297527777 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh I see, we're playing the arms-race game :P < 1297527780 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: just for you, i'm not going to tweak wireless_frownie < 1297527795 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I still think 85 is the optimal height for a large decoy < 1297527806 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you make it any taller, on average you help the opponent if they guess the wrong polarity < 1297527823 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that's true < 1297527823 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but perhaps I'm wrong in that < 1297527830 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i think that's right < 1297527856 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my defend9 variant will probably use a height-85 decoy too, as it produces the most clear-cut timing differences < 1297527873 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it'd be confused by an offset clear of height 28 or more < 1297527896 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I can design defence mechanisms that work best against the detected height, but well against the next-nearest < 1297527898 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: couldn't you put a small decoy in front of your large decoy to check the offset size? < 1297527903 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is unsure where to go with lead_acetate_philip :P < 1297527919 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes you vulnerable to turtle-style programs, as they look like a really large offset clear and then go destroy your flag < 1297527924 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 986: 2 <00 8F 6F 83 7B 83 7B 04 FC 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 6B 6B 01 80 >05 0 LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME < 1297527956 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: egojsout should do that < 1297527974 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It ... does? < 1297527981 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: print "LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME" on the last line < 1297527983 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every time < 1297527985 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhhh :P < 1297528026 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust double_tripwire_avoider (+)*32(>)*4(>[>(>[(-)*120[-]])*21])*23(>++[-])*2 < 1297528042 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523__double_tripwire_avoider: 39.5 < 1297528053 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added a defence detector and reverse-decoy detector < 1297528085 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: why is 85 better than 128 for regular offset clears? is it only better when turtle-style programs are taken into account? < 1297528126 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's because you don't know what polarity the opponent's aiming at; 128 means you don't punish them for being on the wrong polarity < 1297528149 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the extra time you spent setting up the flag is useless, as it takes them an average of 256 to clear from both 85 and 128 < 1297528160 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(85 means it takes twice as long to clear "backwards" as "forwards") < 1297528162 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*setting up the decoy < 1297528174 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1297528233 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: write a philip program that quick decrements by 85 before doing the slow clear. it's gonna be the next big thing. < 1297528244 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1297528298 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust double_tripwire_avoider (+)*32(>)*4(>[>(>[(-)*120[-.]])*21])*23(>++[-])*2 < 1297528301 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust wireless (>)*8+<-<(+)*18<(-)*19(<(-)*85<(+)*85)*2<(-)*17(>)*9([[[[-[++[(+)*9.[.-].[.++-------]]]]]]]>)*21 < 1297528318 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just seeing if a three-cycle clear makes any difference, although I doubt it will as dodging tripwires generally beats defence anyway < 1297528343 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for quintopia_wireless: 55.9 < 1297528344 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523__double_tripwire_avoider: 37.8 < 1297528354 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shakes ais523_'s hand < 1297528360 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1297528364 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as usual, sir, you are spot on < 1297528384 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it's better faster < 1297528400 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust double_tripwire_avoider (+)*32(>)*4(>[>(>[+[--[(-)*120[-]]]])*21])*23(>++[-])*2 < 1297528405 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's dodge trails too < 1297528416 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523__double_tripwire_avoider: 45.3 < 1297528422 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they're the most likely reason for an enemy to have set up lots of decoys < 1297528423 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1297528454 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up there with defend13, now < 1297528463 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :careless jumped up i think < 1297528468 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the highest a tripwire-avoider's ever got? < 1297528495 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really a relevant question :P < 1297528508 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they always used to do badly < 1297528511 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the only tripwire avoider on the hill < 1297528518 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: "(>)*9([(-)*128>])*21" vs ".", who SHOULD win? < 1297528536 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's unlike any other tripwire avoider in many way < 1297528558 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so left program, marginally < 1297528558 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: draw on all tape lengths but 10, left program wins on length 10 regardless of polarity < 1297528561 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: the nop < 1297528571 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: wtf, why does left program win on 10? < 1297528571 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it doesn't suicide) < 1297528587 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1297528588 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, left program loses < 1297528588 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1297528589 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the > is suicide < 1297528594 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and draw on other tape lengths < 1297528600 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the > is inside the brackets < 1297528605 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It suicides on ANY tape length. < 1297528606 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1297528613 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, it does that on the second flag-down turn. < 1297528617 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't, on other tape lengths it just does repeated [] loops < 1297528621 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't move < 1297528627 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only suicides on tape 10 < 1297528635 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as there's no < or > except inside the square brackets, apart from the first 9 < 1297528640 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohyeah :P < 1297528647 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(>)*9([(-)*128>]>)*21" then :P < 1297528658 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it always suicides < 1297528681 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a suicide, even as the flag is down for the second turn, is a loss? < 1297528698 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, at least as egojoust implements it < 1297528700 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you left the > inside the bracket < 1297528711 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take that out and it won't < 1297528725 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the > happens during the turn, whereas flag loss is measured at the end of the turn < 1297528738 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see an argument for making it considered a draw, though < 1297528746 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a draw in egojsout X-P < 1297528761 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, hmm, the documentation on the wiki implies it should be a draw < 1297528771 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i disagree. i think dying at someone else's hands is marginally smarter than suiciding < 1297528774 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it comes up very often < 1297528860 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we almost had the shudders pushed off the board at some point (vorpal's copy is actually gone), and now they've started climbing again < 1297528868 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i blame gregor < 1297528893 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he could modify philip so it beats shudder but NOOOOOO < 1297528904 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's a valid strategy < 1297528915 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1297528921 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what's with the topic? < 1297528927 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea :P < 1297528984 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Topic revoked under DMCA by the Department of Homeland Security | http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1297529017 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :tripwires and turtles and tuners, oh my! | http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1297529020 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A TOPIC < 1297529023 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT IS ACTUALLY TOPICAL < 1297529029 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I like that topic < 1297529034 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the first time in #esoteric history, i'm sure < 1297529064 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor_quapping_turtle.bfjoust vs ais523__double_tripwire_avoider.bfjoust: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tie < 1297529068 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one's interesting... < 1297529074 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1297529116 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: My canonical topic that was here for a fair while was Welcome to #esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - #esoteric is not associated with the joke language Perl, for that language please visit www.perl.org or #perl - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1297529118 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I think the report table looks marginally more interesting like http://p.zem.fi/erep this, since you can sort-of see how the +'s and -'s cluster in their own separate halves. < 1297529152 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I had actually thought about that. < 1297529160 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i think that was the topic when i first came here < 1297529163 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it seems quapping turtle reaches the flag first by miles, but the flag adjustment I did to waste time causes it to die on one polarity < 1297529222 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see an organisation of "similar" programs, determined via programs that beat similar sets of programs < 1297529227 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: moving the program numbers to the right side of the table would improve readability immensely. it's very difficult to trace the line from a - up to a number, find the number on the left, and then trace back to the right again. < 1297529229 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure how you'd do that < 1297529235 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably involves eigenvectors or something < 1297529242 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: edit distances on win/loss records < 1297529258 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1297529262 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even edit distances < 1297529269 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I mean, saying "this program is 50% group A, 25% group B, 25% group C" < 1297529271 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L1 distance would work just as well < 1297529274 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we then identify what the groups are < 1297529284 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's what eigenvectors do < 1297529284 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1297529286 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : he could modify philip so it beats shudder but NOOOOOO <-- why do you hate shudders!? < 1297529290 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that seems hard < 1297529296 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, what have they done to you? < 1297529316 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i don't. i just want every program on the hill to do well against such a simple and mindless strategy. < 1297529329 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the whole reason they exist, isn't it? < 1297529336 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, "mindless". Harsh words. < 1297529373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: There's a bazillion ways to do clustering (also soft clustering where you get partial membership values), and, well, not all of them involve eigenvectors/values. Spectral clustering does, though. < 1297529376 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't contain a single [ anywhere. therefore, it doesn't really "think" < 1297529405 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust i_regret_everything (-)*127>(+>)*8([-]>)*21 < 1297529421 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, none of them think! < 1297529428 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINE < 1297529438 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, and it contains no [ for speed reasons < 1297529439 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(-)*127 sounds like quite a start. < 1297529446 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: what would the rules be for the metabfjoust tournament? < 1297529464 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_i_regret_everything: 15.1 < 1297529469 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, making the best bfjoust tournament? < 1297529473 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's quite meta) < 1297529475 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I haven't fully decided, that's why I haven't made them. The BFJoust runs themselves would be identical. < 1297529483 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obv < 1297529500 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I want to make it fair in terms of runtime, which makes me consider requiring submission of something that can have a canonical cycle count. < 1297529517 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :careless and Nyarlathotep also contain no [, IIRC < 1297529522 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like MIPS binaries or something. I could make it "easier" by allowing you to submit C if you aren't as concerned about cycle counts. I just want it to be 100% consistent. < 1297529522 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but deciding how many programs each program gets to try against each competitor so as to give it time to "learn" the other program's "strategy" seems the main thing here < 1297529550 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I'd give you plenty of cycles, I just can't solve the halting problem is all :P < 1297529556 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: fuck that. measure time in ms like everyone else :P < 1297529584 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, cycle count is better IMO < 1297529616 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z80 binaries, since that seems to be the thing people spend large amount of time golfing, too. < 1297529637 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: That creates nondeterminism. Nondeterminism is bad. < 1297529648 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'd like something that's easy to compile C to :P < 1297529661 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: as long as all the programs are in a reasonably fast language and running on the same computer and don't run simultaneously (or if they do, run on different cores), the cycle count differences will be insignificant < 1297529688 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Nice theory. < 1297529693 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: It's completely wrong, but it's a nice theory. < 1297529697 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, incorrect < 1297529702 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: esp. if you dedicate a CPU entirely to them and don't let anything else run on them. < 1297529714 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, do you know about L3 cache? < 1297529723 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, 6502 asm and cc65, that's "C". < 1297529726 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to presume you don't < 1297529737 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might be borderline-correct if you were on a realtime system, but aside from everything else, Codu is a friggin' VM running Linux. Just no. < 1297529757 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, L3 cache is shared between cores. < 1297529763 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: why is cache going to play a factor here. we don't expect to be accessing a lot of memory for this game. < 1297529765 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even CPUs in some design < 1297529781 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, it will possibly stall cache still < 1297529784 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might happen < 1297529794 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus non-determinism < 1297529830 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright < 1297529836 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, beside depending on heat the actual clock frequency will vary a bit < 1297529854 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's run the tournament on an arduino :P < 1297529860 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, why that one < 1297529881 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just picked a popular chip that's reasonably priced and can be compiled to from C < 1297529897 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea is to simulate. < 1297529901 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, arduino is not a chip. It is a development board. < 1297529902 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way I can count cycles. < 1297529909 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, arduino uses the AVR chip < 1297529933 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: atsmega chips are also used in arduino clones. i refer to the entire family of products by the shorthand "arduino" < 1297529948 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, atmega* < 1297529956 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wutev < 1297529965 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: That's like calling all kinds of searching "googling". How dares you. < 1297529983 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...people use search engines other than google? < 1297529987 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, dude, I use ATmega chips in a course at university currently :P I know them well atm :P < 1297530002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that bingbong thing, some people I think do use it. < 1297530021 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, yes... I use grep, find and locate as local search engines < 1297530022 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even it uses google, so technically speaking, they're still googling < 1297530044 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i thought that's what google desktop search was for? >_> < 1297530048 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, "windows live search". As much as I hate it, people use them. < 1297530051 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, "google desktop"? < 1297530058 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/them/it/ < 1297530114 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone was surprised when I used Bing. I only used Bing because I was too lazy to switch the search bar to Google < 1297530115 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1297530118 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never heard of windows live search. lemme google it real quick. < 1297530122 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That would be better completely flipped; "as much as I hate them, people use it." < 1297530133 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, XFD < 1297530135 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD* < 1297530155 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: have you made "death" not suck yet? < 1297530185 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, "death"? Is that one of his projects? < 1297530215 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was, in a sense of speaking, everyone's project... < 1297530223 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a song snippet from the game he's composing for < 1297530232 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't sound very deathy last i heard < 1297530237 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, got a link? < 1297530241 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds more like a dream sequence < 1297530244 0 :Tritonio!~TrT@150.140.228.133 JOIN :#esoteric < 1297530249 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, I love his music < 1297530254 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/tmp/death-2011-02-12-2.ogg < 1297530269 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1297530277 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott! did you finish lance? < 1297530289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you i just got up < 1297530291 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION lances quintopia  < 1297530293 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how dare you show your face in here before having finished lance? < 1297530307 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1297530313 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, perfect bad dream yeah! < 1297530336 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Someone was surprised when I used Bing. I only used Bing because I was too lazy to switch the search bar to Google <--- pretty much the explanation for all use of Bing < 1297530340 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, your sleep schedule. It's fucked < 1297530353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no shit < 1297530360 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes shit! < 1297530364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: haha, i've done that too < 1297530367 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that, and the Windows malware that sets your default search engine to Bing and adds affilate identifiers, so they get referral revenue from it < 1297530419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone make a site that's a reskin of bing and google, and then /etc/hosts a relative's google.com there < 1297530421 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, ... that exists? < 1297530424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reskin of bing to look like google < 1297530426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see if they notice < 1297530446 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yep < 1297530446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:41:16 Gregor: Would you hold it against me if I used an actual parser generator for lance rather than hacking up this awful thing? X-D <-- ah. that may be a problem since the language isn't CF. (see previous comment) < 1297530448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1297530455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how new bf joust isn't context free < 1297530455 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they don't notice anyway, most likely < 1297530467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: a slightly more savvy relative then < 1297530472 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was that case where a news story about Facebook managed to beat Facebook in a Google search < 1297530481 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lots of people tried to log into Facebook via its comments form < 1297530488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:55:24 conclusion: he composes electronic music for porn films < 1297530489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you have not confirmed nor denied this. < 1297530494 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I haven't < 1297530499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's _suspicious_. < 1297530501 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems pretty believable < 1297530508 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wrong conversation < 1297530508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha! admission! < 1297530513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...haha < 1297530516 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1297530517 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I stole your name for a small alternative egojoust-reimplementation... I don't know what the right word is, "trick" or "experiment" or something. < 1297530526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What, "lance"? < 1297530530 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to know more context before I can sensibly confirm or deny it, anyway < 1297530531 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 10:55:24 conclusion: he composes electronic music for porn films <-- how did he reach that conclusion? < 1297530532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You do realise lance is 3/4ths done already? < 1297530532 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I called it "chainlance". < 1297530540 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's still name-stealing. < 1297530541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Heh, what does it do. < 1297530550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just absorb its features into lance and then sue you. < 1297530554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You horrible person. < 1297530563 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translates to x86-64 asm, basically. But it's not much of a win because of the strict cycle-alternation stuff. < 1297530566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:57:47 jix_wiggle2 would have been a good candidate for (({{}})) if it was slightly more ordered instead of trying that hard to be unpredictable < 1297530567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1297530585 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, with the right register allocation it could help < 1297530588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I can already simulate the longest possible battle in 1/10th of a second :P < 1297530602 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: even with insane programs? < 1297530609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So on a 100-big hill filled of programs that do + forever, it would take 10 seconds to try a new warrior. < 1297530614 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, given fully expanded source code? < 1297530621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Probably. < 1297530636 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100-big hill involves 100*99 = 9900 duels. < 1297530639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that it also detects when both programs stop executing and ties immediately. < 1297530651 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but only 100 duels to test a new warrior < 1297530655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What ais523_ said. < 1297530657 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cuz of cache < 1297530658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't redo the hill every time. < 1297530679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Most normal matches end in less than 0.06 seconds so far :P) < 1297530687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I haven't finished implementing {} yet. < 1297530691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I haven't extensively tested yet. < 1297530696 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, I get a 100000-cycle match done in 3/100ths of a second. :p < 1297530715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well lance is better because I said so. :| < 1297530716 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100000, or 384000? < 1297530728 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: 100k, it's trying to be egojoust-compatible. < 1297530732 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1297530735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it compatible in its broken %? < 1297530742 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: what is the "booster" in decoybooster meant to refer to? < 1297530752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:27:19 oerjan: Why are you not here now :P < 1297530752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:27:35 high_fructose_corn_philip's canonical implementation uses (({{}})) < 1297530752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:28:06 Works on egojsout, but not egojoust < 1297530752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Was it actually... useful? < 1297530754 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: using decoys in order to allow bigger decoys < 1297530770 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1297530773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:46:49 besides, I care more about playing than winning <--- what, someone actually believes that playing is more important than winning < 1297530774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, I play egojoust and never win < 1297530778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bfjoust < 1297530784 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would have said "staller" :P < 1297530786 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes but you aim to win still < 1297530790 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is your goal < 1297530793 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well... It doesn't do the non-matching-[s-in-() at all and replaces (foo{bar}baz)%n with a (foo)*n bar (baz)*n as a preprocessing step. I'm not seriously advocating it as a replacement, after all. < 1297530796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aim, but don't care about. < 1297530804 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed. Which is different < 1297530806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, so it has totally broken % :P < 1297530832 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1297530835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And seemingly runs redundant polarities. PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT < 1297530838 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I play too crappily to ever think I have a chance of winning < 1297530842 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: there's an obviousish fix to HFCP; you check 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0, -1, -2, -3, -4, -5, -6, -7, -8 before assuming a large decoy and doing the adjustment by 128 < 1297530849 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you check 0..7 twice? < 1297530851 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It doesn't run redundant polarities, it just does the *2 thing. :p < 1297530878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So does ([{x}])%n not even work, fizzie "I THINK I CAN COMPETE WITH LANCE, THE BEST PROGRAM EVER, HAHA" fizzie?!?!?!! < 1297530883 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust loop_suicide [-] < 1297530897 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust slow_shudder (+.-.)*100000 < 1297530917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does everyone keep submitting the same idiotic programs :P < 1297530917 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a shudder. that's a vibrator. < 1297530919 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, no, obviously not, since it turns into ([)*n x (])*n -- I just wanted to, you know, try the theory out in practice. < 1297530924 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There's a generated-code example at http://p.zem.fi/bd54 < 1297530925 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(vibrator? hardly know 'er!) < 1297530933 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: what's the difference? I thought vibrators went to 0 every second turn < 1297530953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm sorry, I *believe* that you have *lost* *forever* and are *bad*. Carry on. < 1297530964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes back to lance, cries about performance < 1297530971 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: well, call it an alternator then. the point is, it doesn't change its average value on its own) < 1297530986 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1297530992 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making that change the average value would just suicide, though < 1297531011 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1297531013 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why is breakdown not updating? egojoust doesn't seem to have even started running < 1297531026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because egojoust sucks < 1297531027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any questions < 1297531029 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("test\n"); < 1297531038 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does that every now and then < 1297531047 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lagged to hell I bet < 1297531059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lance debugger: TOTES GONNA BE CALLED "GUINEVERE" < 1297531061 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1297531077 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to consider llvm asm, but the "alternate between programs" would have meant some pretty awkward-looking code. (At least based on what little I remember of llvm ops.) < 1297531081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ;; run through all tape sizes with progA vs progB < 1297531081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : xor rTapeSized, rTapeSized < 1297531087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Don't you know that mov 0 is _faster_ these days? < 1297531090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly this man knows nothing of performance < 1297531120 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ps aux | grep ego | grep -v grep < 1297531139 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you provide references for that? I can believe xor a, a is no longer a win, but it sounds a bit strange that it'd actually be slower. < 1297531156 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I thought mov was faster into memory, and xor-with-self was faster in registers (due to taking the same number of cycles and being a shorter opcode) < 1297531169 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and thus fitting into cache more easily) < 1297531170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It was Wikipedia commenting on Abrash or something, saying that "mov 0" had been OPTOMIZED(tm) because, you know, it's common. < 1297531176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The xor version is of course shorter. < 1297531179 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5000 1458 0.2 0.0 3640 388 ? SN 17:39 0:00 ../../../slox/slox 25 ../report ../egojoust ../cache Deewiant_maglev.bfjoust Deewiant_monorail.bfjoust Deewiant_sloth.bfjoust Deewiant_steamroller.bfjoust Gregor_high_fructose_corn_philip.bfjoust Gregor_julius_freezer.bfjoust Gregor_lead_acetate_philip.bfjoust < 1297531196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "For example, the bit-oriented "XOR EAX, EAX" (example in Intel assembler syntax) instruction was the fastest way to set a register to zero in the early generations of the x86, but most code is generated by compilers and compilers rarely generated XOR instructions, so the IA designers decided to move the frequently occurring compiler generated instructions up to the front of the combinational decode logic, making the literal "MOV EAX, 0" < 1297531196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instruction execute faster than the XOR instruction." < 1297531198 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a strange thing for it to be held up on < 1297531203 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1297531211 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's egojoust it's held up on < 1297531213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: report runs all the matches < 1297531232 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but it's the list of programs there that's weird < 1297531233 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523__slow_shudder: 16.1 < 1297531233 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Sgeo_loop_suicide: 20.0 < 1297531235 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it's running now < 1297531254 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: report takes a list of programs as arguments < 1297531259 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's interesting < 1297531263 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the programs in the programs folder < 1297531283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:24:14 ais523_: 100K < 1297531286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: nope, 10K < 1297531292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cut off repeats) < 1297531293 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who did I win against? < 1297531298 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: if you kill yourself slow enough, some programs kill themselves first :P < 1297531316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:27:54 !bfjoust lostkng http://p.zem.fi/lostkng < 1297531316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:27:59 (The most sensible thing.) < 1297531321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is this what you wrote chainlance for? :D < 1297531332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:29:04 wow, lostkng's beating more or less everything on tape lengths 11 and 14 < 1297531334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha, wow < 1297531334 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it runs reasonably fast with stock egojoust too. :p < 1297531352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing that needs speeding up are * and {} really. < 1297531355 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slow_shudder actually does pretty well < 1297531358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lostkng runs fast because it has none. < 1297531363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ping < 1297531365 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, ais523's program should have been like a noop, why'd it score worse? < 1297531381 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: mine's not like a no-op at all < 1297531382 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check the report! < 1297531397 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it draws with two-cycle clears, but only on every other tape length < 1297531402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how on earth would ais523_'s be a nop? < 1297531402 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no-ops don't do that < 1297531548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll replace my strange program format with structs. < 1297531559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than storing instruction parameters as the instruction after the instruction. < 1297531583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:01:21 because the > happens during the turn, whereas flag loss is measured at the end of the turn < 1297531583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1297531589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I check for flag loss at the start of a turn < 1297531593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i suppose that's equivalent < 1297531597 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1297531610 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"between turns", you could say < 1297531616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also handle draws when both of your flags go to 0 at the same time, when both your programs end and neither of your flags are 0, and when both pointers run off the tape. < 1297531622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just THAT FAIR. < 1297531657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:04:36 also, what's with the topic? < 1297531658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean < 1297531660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:53:08 • elliott changed the topic to: Sorry about that outburst, but it is for your own good, as #esoteric is not a very noob-friendly channel, and you can expect to receive abuse at the drop of a hat. | http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1297531661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1297531696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it's a quote from this post about bf joust by quintopia telling people to /msg egobot rather than come into #esoteric because we're evil and kick puppies :D < 1297531697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=68422 < 1297531736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: how is http://p.zem.fi/erep different to the standard report? < 1297531742 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, quintopia trying to advertise BF Joust on xkcd? < 1297531753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ages ago < 1297531768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1297531769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feb 9 < 1297531771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not ages then < 1297531778 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, recently. < 1297531791 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my goal is actually to have a separate competition not involving the current hill < 1297531794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully nobody replied, it'd get really annoying checking the report every few hours and noting that ten new programs you don't know about appeared and are beating all of yours :D < 1297531797 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't think anyone will reply < 1297531803 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it works better on Reddit, and if you just say "hey, there's this ongoing game, join in if you want" rather than "let's have a separate competition" < 1297531813 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less like "join Agora/Blognomic" tends to work better than "let's start a nomic" < 1297531818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I think when you told people to download hg and compile shit they sort of stopped reading. < 1297531828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Or, you know, suggested programming in brainfuck. < 1297531870 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nah, it's just that the coding forum is no longer as fun as it used to be. two years ago I ran a similar competition for people to write their own versions of bf_txtgen < 1297531877 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tons of people entered < 1297531885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as xkcd gets stupider, the people who read xkcd get stupider. < 1297531887 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though they had to download and install the checker < 1297531908 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1297532135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: you'll be pleased to know that i've managed to break lance's ()* checking while implementing {} parsing < 1297532148 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would I be pleased to know that? < 1297532153 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be pleased to see your commit messages < 1297532156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it's innovation! < 1297532161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's not in VC. < 1297532167 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, technically speaking, I don't have to be pleased at that now, just later, to make your statement true < 1297532189 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take your time < 1297532195 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to trust in me < 1297532253 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, hah < 1297532274 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it isn't that funny... < 1297532441 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@86.241.112.87.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297532446 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1297532470 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup < 1297532547 0 :nescience!~myndzi@m6e0e36d0.tmodns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297532590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32 megabytes in global variables! < 1297532642 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i found a picture of you and your dad! http://www.bestworstadvice.com/photo-advice/feel-like-youre-losing-touch-with-your-son/ < 1297532655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I SEE < 1297532664 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it this is trolling? < 1297532665 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi impomatic < 1297532759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : switch ((progs[prog]++)->ins) { < 1297532764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that switch statement is perverse < 1297532820 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man I need a computer but I won't be able to try anythin until tonight :( < 1297532862 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's lance coming, elliott? < 1297532902 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The table of +s, -s and 0s is sorted according to score too. < 1297532920 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what happened to Lymia? < 1297533017 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that personage, after completely unravelling and breaking the game of fyb, disappeared. < 1297533075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: good < 1297533088 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent ;) < 1297533110 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of a legitimate use for ([)*n type code though < 1297533124 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't figure an analogue with ({}) < 1297533127 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :breaking? < 1297533142 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it's a thing I tried earlier but didn't flesh out < 1297533178 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is something like [[[[[[[a]b]a]b]a]b]a] < 1297533184 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you didn't say it'd be illegal, just undesirable so I am ok with that :P < 1297533186 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1297533190 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more like < 1297533211 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>[-++< < 1297533226 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>[-++<< < 1297533227 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1297533278 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't do (>[-++{}<]) because it adds extra tests that might make it suicide < 1297533320 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: ([[{a}]b]a)%3 < 1297533334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: i think you could do that with {}. maybe. < 1297533351 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see above < 1297533358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: btw Gregor's "preferred" version of a current contestant involves nested %, so I'm going to see how he does it and then decide to maybe reinstate % < 1297533361 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try and write it :P < 1297533369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: welp, manually expand it < 1297533382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: it's not like you're going to have 5000 of them :) < 1297533419 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you should definitely treat % and * with their specced meaning, whether you treat them as equivalent to acccomplish that or not < 1297533425 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*accomplish < 1297533426 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugly and hard to count ] < 1297533428 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1297533434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: use a proper editor that matches ]s... < 1297533438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: we agreed to eliminate %, actually. < 1297533443 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: [a[b[c[a[b[c[a[b[c]b]a]b]a]b]a]b]a] this can be done with % but would be a whole lot compacter with ([)* < 1297533448 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rolleyes < 1297533452 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, you're using ({}), aren't you? < 1297533458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: not rolleyes, _any_ editor can match ] < 1297533460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from notepad < 1297533465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: but if Gregor's use turns out to be... useful, % will be reinstated < 1297533487 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :point is just that it's not really necessary to disallow the syntax < 1297533494 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I mean is, I want to be able to write something like (a[{b}]c)%1000 efficiently < 1297533501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: yes, it is < 1297533506 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would be useful in some cases to allow it < 1297533507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expanding it is costly < 1297533512 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ideally that syntax should work, even if you treat it as (a[{b}]c)*1000 internally < 1297533517 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in neither case would you need an expansion < 1297533518 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't expand it < 1297533523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't avoid expanding it < 1297533528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why % was invented < 1297533528 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure you can < 1297533532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1297533545 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have 8 [s in a row and it can be parsed < 1297533546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: no, we agreed to remove the % syntax as redundant < 1297533550 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to do the abcabc....baba thing above, you have to expand it at least to ([a[b[c[a[b[c{a}b]a]b]a]b]a])%2, or whatever < 1297533558 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so too with 8 [s on one cell < 1297533560 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: redundant's no reason it shouldn't be allowed to preserve backwards compat < 1297533570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I'm not arguing over it, we already agreed :P < 1297533571 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you always have to know which one you are on anyway < 1297533574 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if nothing else, % serves as a visual clue to look at the {} < 1297533575 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no we didn't < 1297533576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it depends if Gregor's found a good usecase. < 1297533582 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agreed it was OK for you to keep the two internally < 1297533585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: All the rest of us did and I /did/ ask you and you said yes. < 1297533590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, you don't own the BF Joust spec... < 1297533609 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't see how gregor's usecase makes any difference as to whether it should be notated with % or with * < 1297533613 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently you do though? :P < 1297533627 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fine with you allowing ({})* as an alternative syntax to ({})%, too, even though it's confusing < 1297533635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: because it's ambiguous with just *... except that the case that requires explicitly marking %s seemed totally useless < 1297533647 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what way is it ambiguous with just */ < 1297533653 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\/$/?/ < 1297533653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: but no, ([)*n is definitely not efficiently doable < 1297533659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ((a{b}c)*m)%n < 1297533672 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by efficient you mean without expansion? < 1297533675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: other kinds of nesting < 1297533677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: yes < 1297533681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: if you s/%/*/, then this will be parsed as the old ((a{b}c)%m)*n < 1297533683 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oerjan and I agreed that was meaningless, I think < 1297533688 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's untrue < 1297533691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: not meaningless, just useless < 1297533702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: but Gregor's using it in an actual program on the hill (but not in that version, since egojoust doesn't support it) < 1297533705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but he's using it in egojsout) < 1297533706 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does (a{b}c{d}e)%2 expand to? < 1297533716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aabccdee < 1297533717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1297533718 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you encounter "stacked" [] you already have to keep track of your depth, yes? < 1297533724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: no < 1297533735 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you seeking matches or pre-processing and storing pointers? < 1297533740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latter obviously < 1297533754 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey I'm just being clear < 1297533756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1297533771 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't you need to track depth? you don't loop forever < 1297533781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea what you mean < 1297533795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case LOOP: < 1297533795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (!saves[prog]) { < 1297533795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : progs[prog] = progs[prog].jmp; < 1297533795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : goto nonext; < 1297533795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1297533796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : break; < 1297533798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case POOL: < 1297533800 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I'm missing something please set me straight before I proceed :P < 1297533800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (saves[prog]) { < 1297533800 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't consider that obvious at all, as it unmatches brackets: ([{x}][{y}])%2 would become [[x][][y]] which matches the wrong [ with the wrong ] < 1297533804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : progs[prog] = progs[prog].jmp; < 1297533806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : goto nonext; < 1297533808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1297533810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : break; < 1297533812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that answer your question? < 1297533814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOOP is [, POOL is ] < 1297533819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: well, (a{b}c{d}e)%2 wasn't allowed < 1297533822 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real hard to read on phone < 1297533822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the form i showed < 1297533832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(arguably, that's perverse) < 1297533833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1297533843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to have to see how Gregor uses it before I can make any kind of opinion < 1297533862 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just verifying that you have to store some information about how many ] deep you are < 1297533865 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, (([{x}])*2)%2 would come to the same thing < 1297533867 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er [ < 1297533868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: I don't < 1297533878 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you know how many ] to test < 1297533884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1297533892 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok example code time < 1297533952 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see, you only store counters on the (), yes? < 1297533963 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that doesn't conflict with what I am getting to < 1297533981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you realise that (a{b}c)%n was _invented_ because ([)*n is a huge pain to do without expansion? < 1297534022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lance.c:138: error: label at end of compound statement < 1297534023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid C < 1297534066 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, does anyone here like long-distance remote control robots? < 1297534067 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each [ pairs with a specific ]; all you need is to tie them together. so you track depth when pre parsing and have a list of pointers or something like that. you can store the depth in the same way you store loop counts, and it will indicate which item in the list to go to < 1297534075 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523_: btw Gregor's "preferred" version of a current contestant involves nested %, so I'm going to see how he does it and then decide to maybe reinstate % // no. The case for nesting back and forth hasn't been made. < 1297534083 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mz4FshiMu3U <-- robot ordering scones in a coffee shop, also awesome < 1297534092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So yours is just ((a{b}c)*n{d}e)*n? < 1297534093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or? < 1297534103 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme just pastebin :P < 1297534106 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/Gregor_high_fructose_corn_philip.bfjoust < 1297534118 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would make sense if you could somehow RLE the repeated rows of that < 1297534122 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1297534125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: umm, that's not the version he prefers < 1297534126 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/vTLvx2mM < 1297534130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the version he prefers doesn't work with egojoust < 1297534139 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed, I'm mentioning that that is clearly contractable < 1297534141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BTW, please tell nescience that I'm really not going to devote effort to making (A[B)*nC(D]E)*n work beyond a simple preprocessor until programs that do that get replaced :-P < 1297534149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still doubt it can be done efficiently < 1297534158 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: Yeah, that's bad. < 1297534169 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And can always be replaced by (...{...}...) < 1297534171 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1297534181 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see above example? < 1297534187 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#4 DAMN IT < 1297534201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh yeah, nescience wants to do it with *n *m < 1297534202 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you can nest those constructs which is confusing as hell < 1297534206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where n=/=m < 1297534208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making it like 10x as evil < 1297534216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My preprocessor won't even do that X-D < 1297534227 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: umm, the outside % is meant to match the inside {} there? < 1297534243 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Yes < 1297534243 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying it won't take more memory to process it with () than it would fully expanded < 1297534252 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you find a {, you match it against the nearest not-yet-matched ( < 1297534258 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1297534259 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND that it's not difficult to interpret without expansion < 1297534291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So those {}s all match the closest (), right? < 1297534292 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find the example and am not willing to look, having unmatched [] in () = pain, Idonwanna. < 1297534295 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :particularly when you make a pass before execution to store pointers < 1297534298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does the nested one actually match the _previous_ one? < 1297534301 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The closest not-yet-matched ( < 1297534313 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The innermost { matches the second-outermost ( < 1297534322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The way I interpret it, (a{b{c}d}e) would all belong to the same. < 1297534327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Your interpretation is a bit ... perverse. < 1297534330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can do that. < 1297534332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1297534349 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your love of the word perverse is perverse ;) < 1297534353 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You could have multiple nested {}s in one ()? That makes no sense. < 1297534367 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And mine makes philip possible :P < 1297534370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That's true :P < 1297534402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (a[{b[({[(a[b]c)%2]})*3]c}d]e)%42 < 1297534403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: FEAR < 1297534413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: Makes no sense :P < 1297534423 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my eyes < 1297534489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So, basically, we still don't need % any more. < 1297534498 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Right. < 1297534529 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You only need them if you allow multiple {} within one (), and specifically allow that to be introduced by ()* < 1297534535 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*within one ()% < 1297534590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Which sounds quite perverse. :p < 1297534596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perverse perverse perverse perverse perverse perverse perverse perverse perverse perverse perverse perverse perverse < 1297534600 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lols. < 1297534662 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have to try and hack on egojoust (or lance) to try and make the idea I want to try easier to implement < 1297534698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: Just write a generator program :P < 1297534702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't need a huge macro language. < 1297534715 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not what I meant < 1297534723 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait for lance. < 1297534725 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't hack egojoust. < 1297534729 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or hack egojsout < 1297534734 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the argument before is for keeping existing behavior, not making anything huge < 1297534737 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1297534751 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want to get some information more easily ;) < 1297534762 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably end up just doing it by hand though < 1297534766 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know, egojsout is a legit, by-the-book non-expanding interpreter. Its code is really pretty nice. < 1297534769 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust dta2 (+)*32(>)*4(>[+[--[>(>[+[--[(-)*120[-]]]])*21]]])*23(>++[-])*2 < 1297534789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You are not integrating egojsout :P < 1297534793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Lance is, like, almost done. < 1297534794 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not handy enough with c that it would be definitely less work < 1297534797 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Good lord no. < 1297534809 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm just saying it's not a bad platform to hack at just for experimental purposes. < 1297534812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, egojsout is really helpful. < 1297534814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Agreed. < 1297534819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Except for JS and all that, but. < 1297534830 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might be able to get what I want from egojsout < 1297534841 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect that'll do worse because it loses to most defence programs < 1297534856 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno yet, still haven't played with it from a screen bigger than like 3" < 1297534900 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, what if I make double_tripwire_avoider trail? < 1297534928 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust double_tripwire_avoider (+)*20(++>)*4(-->[>(>[+[--[(-)*120[-]]]])*21])*23(>++[-])*2 < 1297534938 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually you'll be jumping so many cells :P < 1297534942 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, once defend13 has you in a jam, you're just friggin' dead. < 1297534949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not if you're antidefend13. < 1297534953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is antidefend13 still on the hill? < 1297534954 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :P < 1297534956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's genius. < 1297534958 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't last very long < 1297534960 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tripwires will just add more decoys < 1297534967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: But it was awesome! < 1297534973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It made defend13 go into stupid mode :P < 1297534985 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no, it's still there < 1297534990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha < 1297535001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: It beats all of your defend programs IIRC < 1297535004 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ps aux | grep ego | grep -v grep < 1297535004 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to decide if there's any way that something akin to lead_acetate_philip could beat defend13. < 1297535005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And just about nothing else < 1297535006 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there is. < 1297535021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Do what defend13 does, detect defend13 and choose a different strategy :P < 1297535030 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: watch defend9 vs. wireless. it's a *thing of beauty* < 1297535030 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297535032 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't beat impomatic's defenders? < 1297535040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how Gregor went from absolutely terrible player to one of the top after implementing egojsout :P < 1297535046 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The whole reason the philips work is speed, they can't take time to detect. < 1297535048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: Oh, it might. But IIRC a few won. < 1297535070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Detect it really stupidly. Like with one single [ on only one cell at one point in decrementing. < 1297535079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno. < 1297535085 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g229031051.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1297535099 0 :p_q!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1297535116 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5000 4035 0.1 0.0 3640 392 ? SN 18:45 0:00 ../../../slox/slox 25 ../report ../egojoust ../cache Deewiant_maglev.bfjoust Deewiant_monorail.bfjoust Deewiant_sloth.bfjoust Deewiant_steamroller.bfjoust Gregor_high_fructose_corn_philip.bfjoust Gregor_julius_freezer.bfjoust Gregor_lead_acetate_philip.bfjoust < 1297535123 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: wow, defend9 gets quite a way through there < 1297535129 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite the misdetection < 1297535164 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a misdetection < 1297535166 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it? < 1297535179 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like it figured out my cycle length perfectly < 1297535183 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's a correct detection < 1297535185 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it wins < 1297535189 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I misread the results to start with < 1297535196 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a three-cycle clear? < 1297535240 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, indeed < 1297535298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF Joust is a pretty surprising success < 1297535308 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it surprising? < 1297535314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember when I was telling ais523_ that I didn't think defend programs were possible :P < 1297535315 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, after examining jsout more < 1297535318 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/surprising/SMASHING/ < 1297535326 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is one line per cycle after all yes? < 1297535328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: because it seems like it should be quite easy to write a near perfect program on first glance < 1297535333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because "oh, you can't ..." < 1297535339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then all sorts of strategies have arisen < 1297535345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like: detecting cycle count < 1297535351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't seem possible at first glance at all < 1297535357 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defend9's the only program that really does that < 1297535358 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't very reliable though < 1297535359 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in quite a naive way < 1297535371 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I can make a more reliable version, but not easily on this computer because it runs Windows < 1297535386 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think there may be a more reliable way that involves measuring on multiple decoys... < 1297535386 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523__double_tripwire_avoider: 47.4 < 1297535387 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523__dta2: 33.5 < 1297535406 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the difference < 1297535408 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can't read up < 1297535438 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a strategy in mind that I don't think has showed up yet ;) but it will be a great deal of effort to pull off and possibly not very maintainable < 1297535452 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you going to tell people what it is, or keep it secret? < 1297535466 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to write it first ;) < 1297535475 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you want to write it for me lol < 1297535486 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't be fun to give it away :P < 1297535527 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it's kind of a different twist on a defender which is what made me want to mention it :P < 1297535546 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a surprising amount of variety in that strategy after all < 1297535548 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1297535565 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with defenders is that counterdefence is so easy to write < 1297535584 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: does it involve exploiting the ()* expansion system? < 1297535586 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they'll never dominate the hill, just maybe end up filling a third of it or so < 1297535609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: but what about a defender that detected counterdefenders, and turned into an attacker? < 1297535625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why defend13 should be called hybrid1, because of possibilities like that :P < 1297535638 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still defence by my definitions < 1297535642 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then someone would write a countercounterdefenderattackerdefender and keep winning < 1297535644 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it waits for the opponent before it does anything < 1297535649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yes, but it's sort of like a transition < 1297535654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from pure defence < 1297535659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: that's not a real argument < 1297535665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could reply to any strategy like that < 1297535665 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but if you can make counterdefence untenable against other programs.. then you benefit < 1297535672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of /course/ any program gets counter-programs < 1297535675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the game < 1297535681 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not certain, even, say, defend7 attacks < 1297535689 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just it keeps the opponent locked at the same time < 1297535691 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to win somehow, after all < 1297535692 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the point was that counterdefense is easy to write, and i was extending that argument < 1297535694 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well I suppose I don't care if you write it, though I won't feel any ownership if it succeeds :P < 1297535700 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pure defender" only really applies to shudder-style programs, IMO < 1297535710 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: I'm unlikely to be able to write it now < 1297535711 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you go for it yourself < 1297535715 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, no.. that was just to make a tripwire tripper easie < 1297535722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: counterdefence is easy to write, counterhybrid isn't < 1297535742 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r < 1297535742 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway this builds on the idea about multiple cell timing I described to you before ais < 1297535743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if you try and counterdefence, it'll turn into an attacker < 1297535752 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also trapwire which didn't succeed < 1297535754 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: defense13 is a hybrid. it gets pretty solidly trounced by a rusher that waits forever. < 1297535760 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I forgot how loops work < 1297535767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it's not a true hybrid < 1297535771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as ais523_ said, it waits for the opponent < 1297535782 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya, I will probably try but I feel like a dick talking about it like a secret :P < 1297535783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a... protohybrid < 1297535790 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know a way of syncing with an opponent that doesn't involve waiting? < 1297535805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: talk about what like a secret? < 1297535810 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is to zero my flag for one cell when an attacker would encounter it with a loop < 1297535820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: the point is that a hybrid program would start off by setting up defences /and working out what the opponent is doing/ < 1297535823 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :causing the attacker to fall through < 1297535829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than only trying to work that out once the opponent starts coming < 1297535846 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by varying the decoys I should be able to spread out the timings of programs on the hill < 1297535859 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that I can tackle each one separately < 1297535879 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suggested that actually, elliott. building a big decoy while waiting on your reverse tripwires to get hit. i forget what ais523_ said about that... < 1297535885 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course there are only so many looping combinations you can really use < 1297535908 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, fixed cycle attackers can be tackled in a similar way < 1297535930 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: oh, it needs to be tuned to each individual opponent and tape length < 1297535930 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate programs like that < 1297535931 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you see a zero you can predict specific attack timings < 1297535931 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's defeated outright by check-twice programs < 1297535933 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that won't leave a cell without verifying that it's 0 for two cycles in a row < 1297535937 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but figuring out what an opponent is going to do while it is still building its own decoys is impossible, so i'm really not sure what you're trying to say < 1297535948 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is not to prevent leaving < 1297535955 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's to prevent entering < 1297535973 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: your idea up there is going to be partially used by defend9b or defend15 or whatever I call it < 1297535993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I didn't say I knew how to do it effectively < 1297535996 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you don't really have to tune it to the hill, you will wind up tuning it to "loop once, loop twice, 2 cycle, 3 cycle" all in the same program < 1297535999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who says you can't detect that an opponent's building decoys < 1297535999 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that I can detect certain types of enemy by checking to see if my decoys are still intact just before going into wait mode < 1297536001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wait for it to finish? < 1297536004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while building your own defences < 1297536012 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed cycle attack programs are less certain of course < 1297536019 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's very hard to detect decoys reliably without running off the flag < 1297536027 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*running off the tape < 1297536036 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but will have to fall in a certain range of timings as well < 1297536038 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you could detect decoys reliably, why not just skip them and sink the flag? < 1297536056 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like wiggle would probably beat it < 1297536068 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the attack varies per cell < 1297536099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: very true, but I'm just thinking heuristics < 1297536110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I'm not going to say something is impossible after saying defence programs were way back :) < 1297536119 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but generally, you can expect a fixed overhead and then a loop from looping attackers, and varying the decoys precisely can allow you the spread to tweak the flag at the right moment < 1297536131 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235033089.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1297536159 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: the issue is: if you use a large cell value you can't distinguish the fixed overhead from the loop; if you use a small value, the overhead normally ends up no longer fixed < 1297536175 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, hmm, what if you used two different large decoys? < 1297536178 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to know what it is < 1297536181 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and measured the number of cycles between them? < 1297536200 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just have to cause the fall through for every possibility < 1297536204 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be more reliable for a defend9-style program than what it currently does < 1297536226 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: so you want the opponent to arrive at your flag just as it goes to zero, thereby not ever trying to decrement it? < 1297536230 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you use decoy size to force different attackers to take a longer spread of time so you can control the cell timing < 1297536242 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically yes < 1297536261 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's trivially defeatable via a second [] after your zero-detection < 1297536264 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for fixed attackers you can use a +- to save yourself < 1297536271 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to mention, some programs use an unguarded offset clear < 1297536304 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's relatively easy to write an attack program that's theoretically incapable of running off the end of the tape without an arbitrarily complex shudder of your choice < 1297536306 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right, not much I can do about [[ < 1297536323 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: and wireless_frownie actually uses [[ < 1297536330 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it'd be slower and be defeated by other programs ;) < 1297536345 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, it does [[[[ :P) < 1297536363 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, it gets defeated by very fast rushers, like maglev < 1297536401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, my end of program thing takes up a cycle so it doesn't work at the cycle limit, but i think all such cases would end in draws anyway < 1297536435 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[[[ but it has instructions inbetween < 1297536442 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can be timed against < 1297536456 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides if the first one fails < 1297536460 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it skips it all < 1297536473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[ < 1297536474 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what am I talking about I already considered [ < 1297536477 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lettin you guys confuse me < 1297536495 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again none of them run if it NEVER ENTERS THE FIRST < 1297536523 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's the whole point of the idea < 1297536546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./lance '[+]' '.' < 1297536546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 : Oi -- your program has an unmatched X; you should feel bad. < 1297536549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh man, an unmatched X! < 1297536639 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defend9 vs. Nyarlathotep is one of the most hilarious matchups ever to watch in a debugger < 1297536659 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and incredibly close, because it depends mostly on effectively random factors < 1297536676 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: [][] < 1297536677 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanna see ;) < 1297536685 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta get off til later though < 1297536762 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais: there you go, that's what I was thinking about < 1297536762 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it still forces opponents into a possibly less effective strategy < 1297536762 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gotta save batteries < 1297536762 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot my laptop! :( < 1297536762 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1297536848 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: i don't think he could effectively time against a -[ < 1297536859 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, [][] is the smarter route < 1297536895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: lance is ALMOST ENTIRELY LANCED-UP. < 1297537167 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're still waiting < 1297537343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: shaddap < 1297537444 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey everybody: Just added a cheato statement to egojsout :P < 1297537458 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``(put JavaScript here!)*0 < 1297537459 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1297537462 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1297537482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That might actually be useful as a macro type language...but not JS. < 1297537500 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's mainly useful as ``(print("I just hit a point I'm interested in"))*0 < 1297537531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: `test(n)*((++---)*n) ... `test(3)% < 1297537537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO IMPLEMENT IT < 1297537551 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not really intended for cheating, it's intended for debugging :P < 1297537583 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts putting in statements that break the interpreter < 1297537597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That wouldn't be cheating. < 1297537605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd just expand to (++---)*3 :P < 1297537619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly this stuff belongs in a proper program, not the implementation. < 1297537629 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: It doesn't matter if it breaks the interpreter, that hurts only yourself. < 1297537640 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Doing well in egojsout is irrelevant, doing well on the hill is important. < 1297537649 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: duh < 1297537660 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like he thinks i'm an idiot or something < 1297537736 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'm going to put in some code that submits a file to be processed by webmidi in the inner loop < 1297537747 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1297537794 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your queue will be a year long < 1297537809 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297537811 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also made it show every PC that's hit by an instruction instead of just the first one. < 1297537838 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PC? < 1297537847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :program castration < 1297537862 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure what it means to hit a PC by an instruction < 1297537910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MPEG LA is actually trying to set up a VP8 patent pool now. < 1297537918 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made that unclear I guess :P < 1297537927 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every PC that's hit within a cycle. < 1297537931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION strongly hopes Google goes in and demands a royalty-free licensing scheme. < 1297537939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Isn't it always just one? Or are we talking abotu repeats. < 1297537940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*about < 1297537969 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (){} are all different instructions and so different PCs for me *shrugs* < 1297537970 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: Google actually has patents on VP8.) < 1297537977 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it'll be a number of (){}s, then a "real" instruction. < 1297537983 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: so if both players decrement the same cell, it shows it on two different lines? < 1297537986 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before it was just the first of any of those that you hit. < 1297538000 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Just go look at it X_X < 1297538004 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kk < 1297538049 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: maglev is p cool < 1297538051 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Or have you never clicked on a line in the debugging output and seen that it gives you the programs at that point? < 1297538091 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if this damned patent pool actually gets set up, well, I strongly hope the x264 guys give Vorbis some help. < 1297538116 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: no i hadn't, and i suppose you're referring to the highlight of the )? < 1297538128 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Yes < 1297538168 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you should make it decrement the numbers associated with the () so you can easily see which iteration its in < 1297538185 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: That was my original plan, but that data is lost and not easily recoverable by the time I'm generating those. < 1297538197 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, *hah*. < 1297538200 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1297538207 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ? < 1297538222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: give *Vorbis*? < 1297538225 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google's licensing scheme on the VP8 patents forbids you from enforcing your own patents on VP8. < 1297538227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely you mean Xiph.org. < 1297538236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorbis is an audio codec. < 1297538241 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Theora, not Vorbis! < 1297538248 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Theora needs the help! < 1297538250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1297538258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling Xiph.Org is quite thoroughly dormant. < 1297538262 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn it SodaStream, where's my CO2! < 1297538268 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, no, xiph.org is quite active. < 1297538277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well it was dormant for quite a few years. < 1297538289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're currently working on a Vorbis/Speex replacement. < 1297538290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Just extract it from the air to undo global warming with soda < 1297538296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEST IDEA? < 1297538299 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS < 1297538300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: More a Speex replacement no? < 1297538308 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it was originally just a Speex replacement, but it also outperforms Vorbis.) < 1297538313 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: too bad he'll probably end up burping it back out again :/ < 1297538315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What on earth is sodastream < 1297538315 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'll just make a diesel-powered machine to do that! < 1297538319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some soda maker thing? < 1297538325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: POWER IT WITH CO2 < 1297538336 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They make at-home soda machines. < 1297538342 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Theora has been improving. < 1297538353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I decided doing it manually was too cool so now I'm using a MACHINE. < 1297538357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You: sux < 1297538364 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297538368 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing it manually was too expensive and ineffectual. < 1297538376 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last I checked they were working on adding psy-opts. Which is what makes x264 so fucking good. < 1297538394 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Then they'll be working on getting sued 8-D < 1297538400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psychic optimisations: THE BEST < 1297538406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Doing it manually was too expensive and ineffectual. < 1297538412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your face is too expensive and ineffectual. < 1297538412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God. < 1297538415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next it'll be all < 1297538416 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Actually, psychological optimisations aren't patented, as far as we know. < 1297538418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hey guys < 1297538421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I bought a PVC instrument maker < 1297538427 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1297538427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You press a button and out comes a PVC instrument < 1297538430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hey guys < 1297538434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I think x264's currently one of *two* encoders currently doing it. At all. < 1297538436 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All this machine makes is carbonated water :P < 1297538437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I bought a programming language maker < 1297538443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Doing it manually was too expensive and ineffectual < 1297538451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hey guys, I bought a music box < 1297538461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Here's Opus 14: http://codu.org/musicbox.ogg < 1297538483 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nah, I'll just adapt the programming language maker to work with AlgoRhythms. < 1297538495 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, it seems that it will be impossible for any entity in a VP8 patent pool to *use* VP8. < 1297538503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GREGOR, PROFESSIONAL BUTTON PRESSER. < 1297538518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor's next paper will be automatically generated by a program that thinks of interesting things to say about JavaScript. < 1297538519 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: they're probably just trying to scare other people into not using it < 1297538525 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Almost certainly. < 1297538535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That he wrote by pressing a button on a machine that creates programs that think of interesting things to say about JavaScript and make papers about them. < 1297538539 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I'm still considering the case where it actually *happens*, though. < 1297538555 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Even though it *seems* that they won't be able to get any legit patents in there. < 1297538575 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC VP8 was carefully designed to not violate any h.264 patents. < 1297538603 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'd at least hope Google would have confirmed that before buying the company. < 1297538729 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that last one sounds useless, since it really only ever has to generate the one program... < 1297538791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Gregor made it with a machine that generates a program based on the buttons you press. < 1297538793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1297538798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Gregor made it with a machine that generates a machine that generates one specific program, based on the buttons you press. < 1297538810 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I've heard silly things like VP8 using a weird value for a constant because all the more sensible ones had been patented < 1297538816 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was thinking that that didn't make any sense at all < 1297538816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./lance '(++++)' '.' < 1297538817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sieve: (.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.= < 1297538817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kettle: (.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.=(.= < 1297538820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude... it's +, not . ... < 1297538837 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sieve calling the kettle black? < 1297538904 0 :Mannerisky!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1297538911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1297538914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1297538926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*p++ = (struct foo){a, b, c} is valid C99 right? < 1297538928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does what I want? < 1297538932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for "struct foo *p" < 1297538953 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think so; you might have to expand it to *p++ = (struct foo){.first=a, .second=b, .third=c} < 1297538962 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is likely more readable anyway < 1297538967 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Patent laws in the US are just weird. < 1297538969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: errr, why would you have to expand it? < 1297538970 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think the short version works too < 1297538987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Also, feel free to engage in revelry: none of this patent noise applies to you. < 1297539039 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never know, there have been repeated attempts to enforce software patents in the EU despite them being specifically banned in law < 1297539064 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1297539079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c struct foo{int a,b,c} bar[256]; struct foo *p = bar; *p++ = (struct foo){1,2,3}; printf("%d %d %d\n",(p-1)->a,(p-1)->b,(p-1)->c); < 1297539083 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please do tell me your legal system doesn't have "most money wins". < 1297539090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every legal system has "most money wins" < 1297539097 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 2 3 < 1297539100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1297539124 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And then you get charged more than you will ever make in your next three lifetimes? < 1297539146 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: less so in the UK than in the US, but it still happens to some extent < 1297539154 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the UK legal system is a lot less bullshit-tolerant than the US one is < 1297539177 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Let's kill all the lawyers" — Shakespeare. < 1297539181 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, the wisdom of the Bard. < 1297539188 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know about the cases you get in the US where the RIAA or whoever sue a huge number of people in the hope they'll settle, then drop the cases on whoever goes to court? < 1297539196 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone tried that in the UK, the judge wouldn't let them drop the case < 1297539202 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has decided to go through with it regardless < 1297539219 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably to be able to sanction them for trying something so ridiculous < 1297539285 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, note in the README of a kernel keylogger submission: "I advise you not to try to run this code" < 1297539292 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :together with a screenshot of it crashing the kernel < 1297539297 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not filled with confidence < 1297539313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Let's kill all the lawyers" — Shakespeare. < 1297539313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ah, the wisdom of the Bard. < 1297539315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quote fail < 1297539349 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Shaddup. < 1297539375 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is defend13 so much higher up the leaderboard than defend14, I wonder? < 1297539382 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given how similar they are? < 1297539385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, looks like it being a statement actually in support of lawyers is a myth in itself < 1297539386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOOP WOOP < 1297539396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: because we all tried to beat defend13 < 1297539400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nobody cares about defend14 because it satrted lower < 1297539411 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you have that backwards, possibly < 1297539415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ? < 1297539425 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, defend13 is much higher than defend14 < 1297539432 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and used to be only marginally higher < 1297539443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, right < 1297539469 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they still have a similar win/loss record < 1297539481 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I think antidefend13 just died < 1297539519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :question! < 1297539525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (int i = 0; i < n; i++) { < 1297539527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lbl: < 1297539528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1297539530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : goto lbl; < 1297539530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1297539536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does i get incremented after the goto? < 1297539566 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, obviously < 1297539575 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're jumping backwards, not forwards round the forloop < 1297539586 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want "continue;" if you want the for loop header to run too < 1297539587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: well, indeed < 1297539588 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/tmp/death-2011-02-12-3.ogg Death ditty, try 3 < 1297539592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just it's behaving like it did get incremented < 1297539607 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: i figured out a way to make wireless beat defend9 and wiggle3 with one change. let's see how it fairs with the rest of the hill... < 1297539618 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust wireless (>)*8+<-<(+)*18<(-)*19(<(-)*85<(+)*85)*2<(-)*17(>)*9([[[[-[++[(+)*9.[.-].[.++-------]]]]]]]>[[[[-[++[(+)*9.[-].[.++-------]]]]]]]>)*10[[[[-[++[(+)*9.[.-].[.++-------]]]]]]] < 1297539621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Too slow. < 1297539632 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's for a very mellow game. < 1297539638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Too tinkly, then :P < 1297539644 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: what was the change? < 1297539649 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lol < 1297539650 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for quintopia_wireless: 57.0 < 1297539654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Get rid of the... bubbling tinkly part in the background. < 1297539655 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1297539655 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    | < 1297539655 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   /'\ < 1297539656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOW I'M GOOD WITH WORDS < 1297539660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :57? wow, congrats < 1297539668 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that made it marginally worse < 1297539668 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it alternates cycle length :P < 1297539671 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was on 57.3 before < 1297539676 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really < 1297539679 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1297539708 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'll leave it anyway :P < 1297539722 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference is that it now loses to some of my defend programs on alternate tape lengths on one polarity < 1297539728 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it still beats them, but by not as much < 1297539761 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1297539804 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, that happens on both polarities vs. impomatic's chainmail < 1297539806 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the idea was to beat *all* defend programs on alternate tape lengths < 1297540062 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, short sound effect tunes are TOUGH < 1297540103 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust dta2 (+)*20(++>)*4(-->[>(>[+[--[(-)*120[-][>]]]])*21])*23(>++[-])*2 < 1297540115 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tweaked to beat wireless, and similar programs < 1297540117 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523__dta2: 45.9 < 1297540118 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see how that goes < 1297540145 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it doesn't beat wireless < 1297540146 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me see why < 1297540182 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, duh < 1297540201 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust dta2 (+)*20(++>)*4(-->[>(>[+[--[(-)*120(.-)*16[>]]]])*21])*23(>++[-])*2 < 1297540215 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523__dta2: 29.7 < 1297540233 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust charizard >(-)*6(>)*6(>[(>+[[-]])*29])*29[[-]+] < 1297540249 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_charizard: 17.1 < 1297540296 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it beats wireless, but loses to everything else < 1297540328 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust dta2 (+)*20(++>)*4(-->[>(>[+[--[(-)*120[-]>[>]]]])*21])*23(>++[-])*2 < 1297540338 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's too slow to beat wireless < 1297540342 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523__dta2: 30.3 < 1297540362 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1297540405 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust dta2 (+)*20(++>)*4(-->[>(>[+[--[(-)*120[-]>>>(>(-)*120[-])*10]]])*21])*23(>++[-])*2 < 1297540411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1297540414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it parses right but doesn't execute right < 1297540416 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523__dta2: 43.8 < 1297540449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: wrong nick wrong nick :( < 1297540457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"!bfjoust dta2 <" and /nick ais523 :P < 1297540470 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1297540492 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust dta2 (+)*20(++>)*4(-->[>(>[+[--[(-)*120[-]>>>>(>(-)*120[-])*10]]])*21])*23(>++[-])*2 < 1297540501 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so now I'm just blatantly tuning it to beat wireless :) < 1297540509 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523__dta2: 39.6 < 1297540513 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though I hate that sort of tactic normally < 1297540520 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it hurts it against other things too much, thoguh < 1297540522 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*though < 1297540561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: btw, you can kill other people's warriors by nicking to them... I killed one of yours to test... but I put it back :P < 1297540563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1297540578 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as long as it wasn't defend7, I'm fine with that < 1297540599 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(defend7 has a pretty ancient last-modified, I'd like to preserve that until it drops off the hill naturally) < 1297540657 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust dta2 < < 1297540670 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523__dta2: 0.0 < 1297540734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I think it was decoytuner < 1297540738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some recent one, anyway < 1297540897 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust decoytuner3 (++>)*8(>[+++([-{[+.++]}>+<])%256])*21 < 1297540916 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523__decoytuner3: 17.7 < 1297540923 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust decoytuner3 (++>)*8(>[+++([-{[+.++]}>-<])%256])*21 < 1297540936 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523__decoytuner3: 14.8 < 1297540942 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1297540947 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably just too slow < 1297540955 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust decoytuner3 (++>)*8(>[+++([-{[+.++]}>+<])%256])*21 < 1297540970 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523__decoytuner3: 17.6 < 1297541036 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm impressed by the sticking power of patashu's program as well < 1297541069 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, tactic works, it's just too slow, debugger confirms it < 1297541102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust < 1297541103 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ < 1297541165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: do you think that repeats longer than the max cycle count are useful? < 1297541171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to think if you could ever have one that works < 1297541179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe with % < 1297541179 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: only in order to mean "forever" < 1297541188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: that works with max cycle < 1297541219 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no elliott < 1297541226 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cap repeats at max cycle all you want < 1297541233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :P < 1297541241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just don't want to change these "metarules" too much < 1297541245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to get it right the first time < 1297541253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that mine still lets you do ((foo)*-1)*-1 < 1297541255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's no real limti < 1297541256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*limit < 1297541315 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeat > max cycle is indistinguishable from repeat = max cycle < 1297541325 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you aren't repeating the null string, you run out of repeats < 1297541328 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are, the whole thing collapses < 1297541336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1297541367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ time ./lance '(()*9999999999999999)*999999999999999999999999' '((-)*9999999999999999999999999999)*99999999999999999999999' < 1297541367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[hang] < 1297541368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1297541375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's strange, it must hang during parsing < 1297541911 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It could be worse; I get match.asm:176: warning: dword data exceeds bounds < 1297541928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: haha < 1297541967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, no, doesn't hang on parsing < 1297541967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1297541972 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my thing actually hangs in the fact that ()*9999999999 consumes no ticks, so the cycle-counter doesn't halt it. < 1297542026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :999999 is greater than 100000 right? < 1297542057 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but the ()-looping doesn't cost any cycles. < 1297542094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no no i'm just checking < 1297542098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because my code shouldn't be bugged like this < 1297542101 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 999999 is greater than 100000 right? <- no.... Aren't you up to scratch on the current mathematics? < 1297542112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, i blame oerjan then < 1297542127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (c >= '0' && c <= '9') { < 1297542127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : into->arg = (into->arg * 10) + (c - '0'); < 1297542127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (into->arg >= MAXCYCLES) break; < 1297542128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPOT < 1297542129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE < 1297542132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUG(GERY) < 1297542167 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there is no } matching the { < 1297542168 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a bug < 1297542171 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1297542177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong, the answer is that I need < 1297542179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :into->arg = MAXCYCLES; < 1297542180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise < 1297542185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can go one digit over < 1297542190 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, == then < 1297542193 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks like C < 1297542197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no < 1297542203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wouldn't fix it < 1297542205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would break it more < 1297542221 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh you mean outside the conditions < 1297542225 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust firefly http://corewar.co.uk/2.txt < 1297542228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be < 1297542236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (into->arg >= MAXCYCLES) { into->arg = MAXCYCLES; break; } < 1297542237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise e.g. < 1297542239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say maxcycles is 10 < 1297542240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can say < 1297542241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :999 < 1297542243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1297542248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can say < 1297542249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :99 < 1297542250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1297542252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 < 10 < 1297542252 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, you impersonator < 1297542256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :99 >= 10, so we just break < 1297542258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without resetting it < 1297542258 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_firefly: 27.2 < 1297542261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*capping it < 1297542262 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_Nineteen Eighty-Four_ has gotten to be an *absurdly* depressing book of late. < 1297542268 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: sorry :-P < 1297542377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, all i have to do now is to retweak {} < 1297542411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I sane-ised my parser) < 1297542451 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: anything innovative in that? < 1297542516 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust moonshine http://corewar.co.uk/2.txt < 1297542551 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_moonshine: 13.4 < 1297542562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, now I handle ()*N efficiently < 1297542563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by removing it :) < 1297542585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also (comments)*N obviously < 1297542597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I fully support (comment)*0 as the commenting standard for brainfuck joust < 1297542602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have used it in local work to great effect < 1297542609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: can I get a RINGING endorsement from the LONG-TIME CHAMPION?! < 1297542617 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: not really. I was thinking for the shortest tape the opponent would probably have (>)*9 and miss the cell I'm defending on. So I just tried to handle it differently. < 1297542635 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not without a sample of what I'm supposed to endorse, and not until I have a non-Windows computer to run it on < 1297542648 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: hmm, I've tried to exploit (>)*9-style programs before < 1297542649 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't really work < 1297542670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: you're meant to endorse ()*0 as commenting < 1297542683 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes, good idea < 1297542688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( Go right 8 cells )*0 < 1297542690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>)*8 < 1297542692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES INDEED < 1297542695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT WILL BE A NEW ERA OF USELESS COMMENTS < 1297542711 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm rarely at the top of the leaderboaard < 1297542714 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*leaderboard < 1297542720 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly, I'm hovering a little below the leaders < 1297542729 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust moonshine http://corewar.co.uk/2.txt < 1297542731 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :occasionally I submit a program and it goes straight to the top and surprises everyone, including me < 1297542744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: you do pretty consistently well,t hough < 1297542746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*well, though < 1297542757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compare with Gregor, whose programs either suck immensely or shoot straight to the top :P < 1297542761 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I like programs that hover around the middle of the leaderboard for ages < 1297542771 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_moonshine: 16.4 < 1297542863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You there? < 1297542891 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is firefly a Nyarahtotep or however you spell it variant? < 1297542896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Narlanrjnrkjentkarentlaerttop < 1297542901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my spelling is _creative_ < 1297543050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: can you give me two competitors with repeats but no % (and no unbalanced repeats) that are well-matched? < 1297543060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to "stress-test" here, so i want two good opponents that hopefully draw a lot < 1297543093 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they need to actually draw? or just have a hard time against each other? < 1297543120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: that's fine too < 1297543128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, relatively short would be best < 1297543133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i pass via argv atm :P < 1297543147 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yes, the only real difference is the second link which tries to handle battles on the shortest tape < 1297543211 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hrm? < 1297543270 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1297543275 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: "Freedom is the freedom to say that 2 plus 2 makes 4. From that all else follows." I'd like that freedom. < 1297543286 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust half (>(-)*8>(+)*8)*4(>+++++[-]>)*10[-] < 1297543287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust decoybooster (>)*7(-)*64(<(-)*64<(+)*64)*3(>)*7([(+)*5[-.]]>)*21[-][-.--] < 1297543291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that you are talking in this channel means that this is not 1984 < 1297543299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just noticed that decoybooster doesn't finish off opponents on max-length tapes < 1297543305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :america may be fucked up, but that's a gross exaggeration. < 1297543309 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh right, your government is doing stupid shit < 1297543312 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not saying that we are literally in a Nineteen Eighty-Four scenario. < 1297543322 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523_decoybooster: 41.2 < 1297543322 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_half: 1.3 < 1297543348 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I am saying "Fucking hell, that is getting eerie." < 1297543413 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust dumb (>(-)*8>(+)*8)*4(>+++++[-])*21 < 1297543441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: my new decoybooster is pretty closely matched with the "half" that impomatic just posted < 1297543448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, thanks < 1297543459 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_dumb: 29.7 < 1297543498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ time ./lance '(>(-)*8>(+)*8)*4(>+++++[-]>)*10[-]' '(>)*7(-)*64(<(-)*64<(+)*64)*3(>)*7([(+)*5[-.]]>)*21[-][-.--]' < 1297543498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sieve: <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>> < 1297543498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kettle: <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>> < 1297543499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Left wins (-22) < 1297543500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that correct? < 1297543502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :took 0.003s :P < 1297543509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, no < 1297543524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_decoybooster.bfjoust vs impomatic_half.bfjoust: ><><><><><><><><><>>< ><><><><><><><><><>>< ><><><><><><><><><>>< ><><><><><><><><><>>< impomatic_half.bfjoust wins < 1297543540 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! :-) < 1297543541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "joy" < 1297543549 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what does that output indicate? < 1297543550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: at least i got the winner right. < 1297543561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: who wins on each tape length and polarity < 1297543571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, the order there is ++ polarity, +- polarity for the lines; and the line contents are 10 to 30 tape length < 1297543573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those two programs match up the same regardless of polarity, incidentally < 1297543573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but eh < 1297543586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does Gregor's order the tape lengths logically? :P < 1297543589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are "sieve" and "kettle" the names of your two polarities? < 1297543592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, it does < 1297543606 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1297543619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they've always been the names of the polarities < 1297543621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I named them that from the start < 1297543625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then Gregor was all like < 1297543628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH I'M TOO COOL TO USE THE NAMES < 1297543632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then everybody forgot them. < 1297543638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why are the polarities named that? < 1297543647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reason at all :) < 1297543661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my local egojoust-based testbench calls them standard and switched just so the names will be the same length < 1297543671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, another esolangs.org on proggit < 1297543679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*esolangs.org link < 1297543687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did I guess! it's to a stupid joke language! < 1297543696 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1297543744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I like it. There is a serious message behind the madness: a program that has no input or output is a null program. < 1297543744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, theoretically speaking there are two types of programs that have no output: eventually terminating ones and infinite loops. I wonder if this language as anything to say about that." < 1297543749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on proggit and I'm an intellectual! < 1297543753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i should stop reading this thread < 1297543758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a joke AFAIK; it's a stupid OISC variant much like there are stupid BF variants < 1297543763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*AFAICT < 1297543773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't consider the endless stream of stupid BF variants jokes < 1297543776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's clearly a joke language because of the example programs < 1297543781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Solve NP complete problem < 1297543782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :solves the np complete problem" < 1297543784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"become self aware < 1297543785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cause the program to be self aware for a brief period" < 1297543792 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know? Abacists deaf dog hijacked luminous parquetry studio, avows ex-yakuza. < 1297543799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1297543803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see those programs < 1297543805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and zzo38 reaches new heights of coherence < 1297543808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Compute < 1297543817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there are /two/ esolangs links on reddit right now? < 1297543822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was looking at TinCan < 1297543839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1297543842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tincan looks stupid < 1297543844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/fjz71/i_created_my_own_esoteric_programming_language/ is what I thought you were referring to < 1297543849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what were you referring to? < 1297543857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Compute link < 1297543862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just grep (esolangs.org) on /r/programming < 1297543871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/fk2kt/powerful_programming_language_only_one_drawback/ < 1297543881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the chance of two esolangs links that close time-wise? < 1297543892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: very high < 1297543900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1297543906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: stupid thing gets posted on proggit, person sees it, likes stupid thing, looks around for another thing, finds another stupid thing < 1297543910 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally I managed to make the DVI/GF processing codes in TeXnicard. Now it works. < 1297543912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they like stupid things, thinks it's worthy of posting < 1297543912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :posts it < 1297543984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering if it was a concerted effort to bring /r/programming slightly more ontopic on average < 1297543989 0 :iamcal!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297544007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: don't be silly; that belongs in /r/esolangs! < 1297544019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, has iamcal been here recently? IIRC, he/she was here ages ago and hadn't been here for ages < 1297544024 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not here all the time myself < 1297544030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he < 1297544033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cal157 or something < 1297544035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget the name < 1297544038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nickname, rather < 1297544043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he never talks when we don't ping him though < 1297544048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that befunge interpreter seems to actually do jitting < 1297544050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on /r/esolangs) < 1297544052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(-93) < 1297544081 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iamcal == cal153 < 1297544086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are only three posts on that reddit altogether < 1297544091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iamcal: ah, that would make sense < 1297544091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and one of them is me < 1297544094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and contentless < 1297544094 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297544095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after creating it :P < 1297544120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh, it still links to ESO in the sidebar < 1297544133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523_ < 1297544138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1297544139 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should go back to my correct nick < 1297544145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try ais523__ < 1297544147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1297544150 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1297544186 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I invented a chess variant that the king is invisible. Did you invent any chess variant, too? < 1297544200 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: do you know of Kriegspiel? < 1297544206 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't invent it, but it's along similar lines < 1297544208 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a really fun game < 1297544275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I wonder why on earth those programs have that wrong behaviour :( < 1297544289 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes I do know of Kriegspiel chess. < 1297544296 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I HAVE INSUFFICIENT INFORMATION TO HELP YOU < 1297544306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: you wrote one of them! < 1297544313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: how can it not be your fault? < 1297544315 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the programs work fine, it's lance that's broken < 1297544322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what slander < 1297544347 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically speaking, it can't possibly be slander, this is a logged channel < 1297544356 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus it would automatically be libel rather than slander, were it illegal which it isn't < 1297544361 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also know of some other chess variants with incomplete information. < 1297544373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0[{0} < 1297544374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0-{0} < 1297544374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0]{0} < 1297544374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0-{0} < 1297544374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0]{0} < 1297544375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0-{0} < 1297544376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0]{0} < 1297544378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0-{0} < 1297544380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well [-]s trace is correct < 1297544384 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lie about elliott. < 1297544390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1297544394 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In such a way as to harm his reputation. < 1297544441 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, gah < 1297544460 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"while (1) sleep(UINT_MAX);" in a students' code < 1297544461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: how :D < 1297544468 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the worst part is, it isn't an infinite loop < 1297544482 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought only INTERCAL was that spaghetti < 1297544483 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.16/20101130074636] < 1297544487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: hmm, what's wrong with that? I can't actually tell < 1297544491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from sleep() failing < 1297544500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, being caused to exit early < 1297544503 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it hides the logic < 1297544514 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole of the rest of the program is in an interrupt handler < 1297544516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: oh, in the middle of a student's code < 1297544521 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including the exit < 1297544521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, and? < 1297544523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1297544529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that avoidable? < 1297544530 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how would anyone be expected to look there? < 1297544548 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typically it'd be while (volatile_sig_atomic_t_typed_flag) sleep(1) or whatever < 1297544559 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's clearer what's happening < 1297544582 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm; I (for benchmarking) downloaded a copy of the hill, and ran "report egojoust tmp hill/*"; the resulting breakdown.txt contains 35 lines of "Right warrior failed to parse, left warrior wins!" and only 1046 valid reports, but the 35 bad lines don't correspond to a single program always, since all 47 unique names occur in the list of matches. < 1297544610 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there's some program that fails to parse only against certain opponents on certain tape lengths < 1297544615 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a pain to track down < 1297544619 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and so this week the first 20 minutes of each album are commercial free. " < 1297544649 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I hope that's on a radio/radio-alike, rather than on a CD or download < 1297544656 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One other incomplete information chess variant is Intrigue chess, which is as follows: Each player writes the name of any square on a paper, in secret, and then marks one of the pawns on the bottom in secret. If you capture the opponent's pawn, look to see if it marked. < 1297544659 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, Magnatune < 1297544674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: there's some program that fails to parse only against certain opponents on certain tape lengths < 1297544677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: you see *lance*... < 1297544684 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it is marked, look at the secret paper and put the king on that square. If anything else is already there, whatever is already there is removed from the board. < 1297544688 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blogs.magnatune.com/buckman/2011/02/short-adverts.html < 1297544698 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So... this means less interruptions that ever before... for the first 20 minutes of each album. And then ads (every 30 secs) come in after the commercial-free 20 minutes" < 1297544707 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ads every 30 sec? o.O < 1297544712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every 30 seconds? Hahahaha < 1297544713 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :during a piece of music? < 1297544728 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's... what? < 1297544731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick, someone remix the adverts into a track punctuated with silence every 30 seconds < 1297544736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done so that it seems like the adverts are part of the track < 1297544749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: obviously it's their way of moving to a pay-only model without actually saying "NO MORE FREE MUSIC FOR YOU" < 1297544812 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I accidentally clicked on a Braid soundtrack song < 1297544813 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome < 1297544836 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No ads yet hmm < 1297545027 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't test the ad thing if it's not song but actually having to listen for 20 min < 1297545031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ time ./lance '[>[-]+]' '(-)*126(-+)*9999999999' < 1297545031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sieve: <><<><<><<><<><<><<>< < 1297545031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kettle: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < 1297545035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... is that right? I think so < 1297545048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You can't listen to something for 20 minutes? < 1297545103 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it agrees with egojsout < 1297545124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, i can just compare with egojstoustout < 1297545128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust < 1297545128 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ < 1297545140 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/egojsout/egojsout.html < 1297545167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1297545167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>[-])*30 < 1297545169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs < 1297545170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(-)*126(-+)*9999999999 < 1297545171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*vs. < 1297545176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :egojsout says it's > for all on sieve < 1297545178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < for all on kettle < 1297545181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my program DISAGREES < 1297545200 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "js" in "egojsout" is pronounced like some abominable amalgam of 'j' and 's' that nobody who isn't from China or the Czech Republic could even hope to pronounce. < 1297545206 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sieve? Kettle? < 1297545219 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: apparently they're the names for the polarities < 1297545247 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is which? < 1297545256 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sieve is unreversed, IIRC < 1297545257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: perhaps like egoshout, but with the sh being more... abrasive < 1297545261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sieve is normal, kettle is +- < 1297545282 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Something like that, but you could never hope to pronounce it. < 1297545284 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does polarity end up making any difference? < 1297545297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because otherwise you can submit a program and swap + and - < 1297545300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it often does better < 1297545302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just stupid < 1297545314 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would it do better? < 1297545360 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Consider (-)*127 vs (>)*9(>[-])*21 < 1297545387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what Gregor said < 1297545407 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: In any disagreement between lance and egojsout, egojsout is right X-P < 1297545478 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So each program in a battle might have a different polarity? < 1297545496 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of both having the same polairty, as I thought before? < 1297545516 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: those two programs where there's a disagreement, if there's a tape length dependency in lance, then lance is doing it wrong < 1297545525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: indeed < 1297545528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: both programs having + and both programs having - is trivially equivalent < 1297545540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even i can get that, and ais523_ has made a hobby of yelling SYMMETRY at me when i ask questions < 1297545551 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sufficiently trivially equivalent that elliott tried to convince me it wasn't for five minutes < 1297545561 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that's why I didn't see how polarity made a difference < 1297545562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: no < 1297545564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was +- and -+ < 1297545570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :++ and -- are trivially equivalent even to an ape < 1297545572 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: reverse one of the programs < 1297545573 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's ++ and -- < 1297545583 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's what you mean by +-\ < 1297545585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: hey, that requires like a millisecond of thought < 1297545593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :realising ++ = -- doesn't < 1297545601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: + means + and - do the normal thing < 1297545604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- means they're reversed < 1297545609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically the notation says what + does < 1297545612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so +-, left program has normal < 1297545616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right program has + and - swapped < 1297545622 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, it's just that I thought that Sieve was ++ and Kettle was --, which made no sense < 1297545659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: PLZ2BE s/, polarity inverted/, kettle/ in egojsout :P < 1297545688 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you do realise that your polarity names make no sense, right? < 1297545689 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nevar < 1297545703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: do names usually make sense? < 1297545716 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sometimes < 1297545719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: at least mine are memorable < 1297545722 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're better when they do < 1297545728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no they're not < 1297545731 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to remember which is which for yours < 1297545734 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source and Antisource < 1297545738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, + is dink and - is donk < 1297545753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I invented this terminology days before egojoust even started being implemented, so no arguments :P < 1297545764 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since in ++, the source programs are used as is, and in +-, one is inverted < 1297545769 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *egojsout, right? < 1297545774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1297545778 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow :P < 1297545806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I started implementing lance a few days before egojoust came about, and about a day after we fleshed out the polarity system and I gave them the names. < 1297545845 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where do the names come from? < 1297545854 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least my names make sense, if they're a bit uncreative < 1297545883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made them up. < 1297545890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you're gonna learn to like them. < 1297546187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: is Agora as dead as it looks? I haven't checked it in ages < 1297546203 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a few major people ragequit for various reasons recently < 1297546204 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What do the first and the last numbers in the egojsout trace mean? < 1297546205 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including me < 1297546211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: death counter < 1297546217 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so it's sulking in comparison < 1297546271 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What is a death counter? I mean, can you die more than once within one particular match? < 1297546292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: When your flag goes to 0, it becomes 1. < 1297546295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When the death count becomes 2, you die. < 1297546300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you go off the edge, your death count becomes 2. < 1297546326 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohhhh, two consecutive cycles. < 1297546329 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even know that. < 1297546337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :durpfizzie < 1297546339 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I certainly shouldn't be implementing this stuff. < 1297546367 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's so confusing with all this "original version" "ais523 revised version" "egojoust version" wikipage nonsense. < 1297546427 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't really deserve separate pages < 1297546438 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they are different versions, so... < 1297546457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't seem to be any good at mental patch(1)ing. < 1297546548 0 :Mannerisky!~mannerisk@71-38-35-190.frgo.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297546762 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, I changed the numbers to have UNICODE FLAGS < 1297546769 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY UNICODE < 1297546787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: wat < 1297546790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust < 1297546791 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ < 1297546812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: make it go white when you lose :D < 1297546818 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It does 8-D < 1297546838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :D < 1297546853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: but it goes white when you lose due to going off the tape too < 1297546855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not ok! < 1297546864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok maybe it is < 1297546881 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm waiting to have a more concrete idea of what the correct response to the infamous suicide-zero-flag-tie is. < 1297546888 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I'll need to change something for that. < 1297546943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That's a tie. < 1297546950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both of you lost, at the same time. < 1297546957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither program lost or won more than the other. < 1297546963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a tie in the purest sense of the word, and lance has done that from the start. < 1297546965 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's my thoughts too, but the "spec" doesn't make it very clear. < 1297546980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We hardly have any kind of spec :P < 1297546988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also, < draws with itself. < 1297546995 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[-] obviously ties with [-] < 1297546995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again, tie, for exactly the same reason. < 1297547007 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did you mean something else? < 1297547012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, he meant that < 1297547168 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, big news. See other channel. < 1297547208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, Vorpal's pregnant again < 1297547259 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh, Unicode skull and crossbones is two small :( < 1297547317 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grins < 1297547344 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, Monty Python put a gigantic bunch of Flying Circus videos on Youtube for free. (I think it's nearly every sketch by now?) < 1297547353 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This has apparently lead to a 23,000% increase in DVD sales for them. < 1297547371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: *too < 1297547401 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... /me sobs < 1297547420 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, no, nowhere near every sketch. < 1297547434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just quite a few of the more popular ones. < 1297547473 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you mean free stuff lets you sell stuff? < 1297547474 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO WAI < 1297547499 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll just use UNICODE WHITE FROWNING FACE < 1297547503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I know, it's kinda obvious that letting people get an idea what your stuff is like gets people to want it. < 1297547574 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: not to *AA < 1297547621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Racist. < 1297547675 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Well, no, they seem to think that the more they charge the more money they get. < 1297548054 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1297548072 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: An ideal world is left as an exercise to the reader < 1297548076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Canada, there is a legal tender million dollar coin. < 1297548097 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all "legal tender" means is that you can use it to settle a debt < 1297548108 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I'm well aware. < 1297548115 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, as the coin is made of gold, it is actually worth significantly more than $1 million. < 1297548142 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it is 100 kg) < 1297548173 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Last ~30 years, energy americans obtained from food has been going up. Also, obsesity epidemic. But is the enegy increase cause or effect? < 1297548177 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The coin in question is in the Royal Canadian Mint, and for obvious reasons will likely never circulate as such. < 1297548196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two correlated factors! Clearly there must be causality! < 1297548219 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :piracy (the old-fashioned kind with ships) prevents global warming! < 1297548224 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: :) < 1297548232 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should use PEACE SYMBOL :P < 1297548236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Hey, REAL piracy prevents global warming too! < 1297548246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: If you don't think that's the case, that's just because there's not enough piracy yet. < 1297548252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only you can save Earth!!! < 1297548257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infringe copyright today! < 1297548260 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, it actually seems reasonable that there is a causal link between higher food energy consumption and obesity. < 1297548266 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can actually make a plausible case for that < 1297548279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: not _really_ :P < 1297548283 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you download something rather than buying it in a shop, it saves on transport and packaging, both of which release carbon < 1297548294 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that applies equally well to legal and illegal downloads, ofc < 1297548307 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most things don't have legal downloads (although most of the things that actually matter do) < 1297548337 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Legitimate purchase of copyrighted works does, indeed, usually involve shipping and packaging. Downloading uses electricity, most of which would be in use anyways. < 1297548337 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :⍨ < 1297548346 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is there third factor that causes both at the same time? < 1297548364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ugh, stop being elliottcable < 1297548382 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: rise of convenience foods, maybe < 1297548435 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust attack1 [>[-]-] < 1297548439 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheer expense of more healthy goods. < 1297548448 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, the real question is: What bypasses / breaks down normal metabolic control systems? < 1297548517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be tempted to say "corn syrup", but that probably isn't the whole problem. What with an obesity epidemic developing in other countries, where corn syrup is actually more expensive than sugar. < 1297548544 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not as bad in most countries as it is in the US < 1297548556 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen a theory that obesity is actually caused by a virus, although that seems vaguely implausible < 1297548563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe my timing is messed up here < 1297548566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: you know those two programs you gave me? < 1297548578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: do they ever run off the tape? ever? < 1297548580 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, *technically* corn syrup already has a higher cost than sugar in the US, but most of that cost is in taxes, and would be paid *anyways*...) < 1297548587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>)*9 counts as running of the tape ofc < 1297548589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*off < 1297548593 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fuck corn subsidies SO MUCH) < 1297548600 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which two were they? fool and decoybooster? < 1297548606 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*half and decoybooster < 1297548607 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they do < 1297548608 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there are also subsides for soy and wheat. < 1297548617 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: The corn subsidies are much worse. < 1297548620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: then quite possibly it's because i handle running off the tape between turns < 1297548635 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's not a minor timing difference like that < 1297548635 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, really, all the subsidies on grains really distort the market a lot. < 1297548645 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if one program runs off, the other one is nowhere near winning or losing < 1297548664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: well, yeah... < 1297548666 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: HEY, high_fructose_corn_philip resents that. < 1297548669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's the only thing that's wrong :D < 1297548674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The various grain subsidies are a major, major part of why modern factory farming works at all. < 1297548678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1297548680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong = differnet < 1297548682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*different < 1297548682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1297548706 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And are the primary reason why food production is so unsustainable right now. < 1297548711 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite true. < 1297548760 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was the calories in / calories out ratio of food production (ignoring solar input) right now? I have heard of figures like 10. < 1297548763 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Corn subsidies are the worst, because they (IIRC) make producing corn profitable *before any sales occur*... < 1297548783 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Europe subsidises farmers to keep on farming < 1297548788 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523__attack1: 3.2 < 1297548795 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not sure if it subsidises particular sorts of farming more than others < 1297548829 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: The US has megacorps doing most all the farming. < 1297548848 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, in which case subsidy doesn't make a lot of sense < 1297548858 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the EU subsidies are because they like the idea of farmland being tended by farmers < 1297548869 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it were just subsidising farmers *in the general case*, it'd be much less objectionable. < 1297548875 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they actually produce food, it's just a bonus < 1297548888 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many people dislike the EU subsidies anyway, though, because they seem a little pointless < 1297548899 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We're going to make it easier for you to make a living producing food" is, at least, not something that horribly screws up the entire agricultural market. < 1297548910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may not be that great an idea anyways, but... Yeah. < 1297548932 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and US subsidies not only screw up US market. US exports lot of grains, screwing food production in lots of places. < 1297548939 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite true. < 1297548972 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it, that everything insane about the UK/Europe, seems to exist in a substantially more insane form in the US? < 1297548980 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: We export insanity. < 1297548984 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except possibly for CCTV and similar government surveillance) < 1297548987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is our major export. < 1297549002 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly, we need to put large import duty on it < 1297549003 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'd make a fortune < 1297549019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, CCTV < 1297549023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why it's such a uniquely British problem < 1297549029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Americans think it's insane < 1297549029 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: You do realise that the CIA has installed logging devices all over the US's network infrastructure, right? < 1297549041 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And farming of grains is extremely enviromentally destructive anyway. < 1297549049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess because US crazies are insanely pro-personal-liberties < 1297549056 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yep, the US is worse wrt technological solutions to that sort of thing < 1297549067 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the UK is more into tracking the movement of individual people < 1297549078 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a different kind of insanity < 1297549100 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: It'd probably be much less so if there were less of an incentive to do it. < 1297549141 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And grains also appear to be quite destructive to health (at least without proper processing, which just isn't done nowadays). < 1297549153 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the CCTV has vague advantages as well as the disadvantages; it's reasonably good at stopping certain sorts of burglary, for instance < 1297549164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I don't care about CCTV in stores < 1297549173 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine that the amount of grain that's actually used in a "normal" way to get food is a very small percentage of what's produced. < 1297549180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: but in public, it's unacceptable < 1297549189 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the CCTV aimed at roads only happens in city centres, as far as I know < 1297549198 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CCTV still requires warning signs wherever it's used < 1297549207 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With most of it being used in various industrial processing methods simply because it's so fucking cheap. < 1297549209 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the nearest area like that is miles from my house, for instance < 1297549227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yep, but it could easily get more insidious quickly < 1297549254 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and of course for feeding pretty much all livestock. < 1297549281 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a manner that is itself absurdly damaging to the environment. < 1297549300 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That "ignore solar radiation in energy inputs" should be quite realistic approximation, since solar radiation is essentially free energy, but other forms of energy that are used on it aren't. < 1297549320 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust poke http://sprunge.us/IcjB < 1297549375 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it *all* depends so fucking heavily on petrochemicals that peak oil will probably break agriculture. < 1297549388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: have you got any simple warriors that use ()*? it's hard to debug with the complex ones < 1297549405 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and then there's corn ethanol. Using the highest EROEI figures I have heard, it is still insane. < 1297549417 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did you try shudder? :P < 1297549419 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust simpleskip (>)*8(+>+++++[-])*21 < 1297549421 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shudder* < 1297549423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: against what? < 1297549429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: did you try shudder? :P < 1297549429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : *shudder* < 1297549436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ah, against what? < 1297549437 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Corn ethanol. < 1297549446 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, I just came up with that off the top of my head < 1297549454 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really meant to beat or tie with anything < 1297549463 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AKA "burning money". < 1297549486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ time ./lance '(>)*8(+>+++++[-])*21' '(>)*8(+>+++++[-])*21' < 1297549487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sieve: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<< < 1297549487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kettle: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<< < 1297549487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right wins (22) < 1297549491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HMM < 1297549504 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are those two programs not identical? < 1297549509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, yes they are < 1297549518 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something's pretty wrong, then < 1297549525 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tape-length dependence is particularly hilarious < 1297549525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST A BIT < 1297549538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: or maybe lance just disproved symmetry!!!! < 1297549541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT COULD HAPPEN < 1297549630 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knocks on egobot < 1297549632 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you there? < 1297549635 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for quintopia_poke: 52.0 < 1297549637 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi there < 1297549717 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1297549726 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: what sort of strategy does that use? < 1297549729 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523__simpleskip: 5.3 < 1297549733 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I KIWW U WIT A SPOON < 1297549739 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Animals usually defend against predation using speed, sharp things, camoflage, etc (sometimes also toxins, but those that do tend to be distinctive). Plants use toxins and antinutrients. < 1297549768 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: exactly what it says. it pokes the opponent before building decoys. i could probably make it even better by having it build even more decoys. < 1297549783 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, that's ingenious < 1297549798 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obvious what it's doing looking at a debug trace < 1297549829 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, there's also resistance to toxins, not having the mechanisms those toxins affect and enzymes that can break down antinutrients. < 1297549851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pokes how < 1297549882 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it starts off by seeing where the opponent is on the tape < 1297549883 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: And humans just figure out how to deactivate it. < 1297549887 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then runs back over to its side and builds decoys < 1297549892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a good opponent to show it against in a debugger < 1297549894 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it goes back to where it saw the opponent was < 1297549895 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see: half of food preperation) < 1297549900 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try defend10 < 1297549919 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't show off any of the advantages of poke, but does show off the strategy well < 1297549932 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh < 1297549942 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm seein' it. < 1297549943 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Clever. < 1297549951 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am really impressed at that < 1297549956 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the strategy can never be used to beat speedy2 though, because they always just cross < 1297550000 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of those toxins/antinutrients are heat-unstable. But some are heat-stable (which makes them much nastier to deactivate). < 1297550046 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, decoys are almost totally useless in the face of poke. < 1297550067 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Mmmm, fermentation. < 1297550069 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and grains have quite good complement of heat-stable ones. < 1297550075 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's one way. < 1297550087 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, this gives a large argument for /not/ trailing < 1297550088 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also soaking and sprouting. < 1297550112 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: But only against poke :P < 1297550125 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think quintopia has officially introduced a unique strategy, not yet seen before. < 1297550129 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think poke automatically loses to any aggressive program that doesn't set decoys < 1297550136 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it'll be crossed and not have chance to set up again < 1297550140 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: so do I < 1297550147 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's a variation on large-decoy-based rushing < 1297550153 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a really interesting one < 1297550164 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Yeah, >(>)*9([-]>)*21 beats poke. < 1297550179 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I'm referring purely to the "poke" part, not what it does after poking. < 1297550179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What BF Joust needs is a way to tell whether the current cell is > or < 128 :P < 1297550188 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd make things too easy < 1297550208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I know :P < 1297550233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: But maybe a "closer to 0" instruction would be nice? I dunno. < 1297550249 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think poke beats most slow-rush programs; and loses to pretty much all fast-rush programs < 1297550258 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but fast-rush programs are a rare breed nowadays because they tend to lose hard to slow-rush programs < 1297550266 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they screw around with dodging tripwires < 1297550277 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and with some of those, there's no way to deactivate them, rendering the whole thing unedible (or requiring finding something to compensate the effects with). < 1297550364 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :double_tripwire_avoider really decimates poke in all sorts of ways, btw < 1297550378 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it both decoys and trails < 1297550402 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GFtype program in MiKTeX appears broken < 1297550411 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, a bit less than decimates, it doesn't make up 1/10 of the hill < 1297550533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back 6 < 1297550534 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not a history of BF Joust, somebody should write a wiki page detailing the various BF Joust strategies. < 1297550652 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i modified it slightly and now it draws with speedy2 on all large tape sizes. interest. < 1297550669 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one polarity anyway < 1297550715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: something a bit disturbing about bf joust < 1297550718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can effectively break out of a loop < 1297550735 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm? < 1297550744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[foo ...condition...[thing i want to do after breaking out(.)*-1]...] < 1297550811 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...on both polarities :P < 1297550818 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1297550824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: ? < 1297550839 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at philip. Effectively breaks out of the loop by starting the loop again within the loop. < 1297550847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1297550867 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty much how bf works, yeah < 1297550897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust ethernet http://sprunge.us/fMFW < 1297550906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on longer tape lengths on both polarities this either draws with or beats wireless < 1297550921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like it does terribly against anything else, though :) < 1297550922 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_ethernet: 0.0 < 1297550926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1297550926 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1297550934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, really, what? < 1297550936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: egojsout has a bug < 1297550949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: run the program in http://sprunge.us/fMFW against wireless < 1297550954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note how it draws or wins on higher tape lengths < 1297550959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that this doesn't happen with egojoust < 1297550962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is *0 broken in egojoust? < 1297550963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or? < 1297550986 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible that *0 has nonsense behavior on egojoust. < 1297551001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw i think that strategy is quite unique < 1297551004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort of like poke except stupid < 1297551026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust ethernet (>)*8+(>[<[(+)*80<]((-)*80<)*7(-)*127(-+)*-1]+)*-1 < 1297551046 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_ethernet: 0.0 < 1297551050 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's lance? X-P < 1297551057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: egojoust is totally broken. < 1297551063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh wait. < 1297551070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: egojoust is broken because it caps repeats to 10K, not 100K. < 1297551078 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahlawl < 1297551086 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's lance? X-P < 1297551088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust ethernet ((>)*8+(>[<[(+)*80<]((-)*80<)*7(-)*127((-+)*-1)*-1]+)*-1)*-1 < 1297551096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Broken for some unknown reason, I'll fix it after playing a bit :P < 1297551109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think egojoust segfaulted or something. < 1297551147 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's my CO2 >: ( < 1297551232 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, no it kicks speedy2's ass. let's find out if it still beats other things... < 1297551250 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297551257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I beat your fucking #1 program and egojoust is withholding my victory < 1297551259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bitch < 1297551280 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust poke http://sprunge.us/eFgA < 1297551294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might be waiting a long while. < 1297551295 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits to see the result before vamoosing < 1297551301 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1297551306 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just goes then < 1297551550 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A program specifically designed to beat only the strongest program wouldn't score well, would it? < 1297551596 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not unless it happens to beat a lot of other stuff too < 1297552009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would score okay < 1297552018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially if it tied or beat one or two others. < 1297552094 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can never remember the URL < 1297552099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust < 1297552101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See above < 1297552114 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ < 1297552235 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would help if I understood what these programs were doing < 1297552256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: use egojsout < 1297552259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy to see any behaviour < 1297552399 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust lame (>)*10(-)*127 < 1297552440 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slow < 1297552484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What. < 1297552497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That works for 11-length tapes, and the program has to decrement its flag by one first. < 1297552501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean *128, for a start. < 1297552505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*11-length tapes only, < 1297552545 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust_strategies <-- please expand, particularly with defensive strategies. < 1297552546 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even mention tripwire, for instance. < 1297552557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that really belongs as part of the BF Joust article... < 1297552557 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, except for the 127 thing, it should win occasionally < 1297552562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: *never < 1297552567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing is stupid enough to let that work. < 1297552579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: And since you will lose on any non-11 tape length, you'll lose all your matchups. < 1297552585 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1297552599 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still hasn't finished < 1297552606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also, "BrainFuck" has two extraneous capital letters. < 1297552609 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so ulimately there's one result for each a vs b? < 1297552616 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, then import it first :P < 1297552618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes. < 1297552620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: Also, "BrainFuck" has two extraneous capital letters. < 1297552627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How can you even commit such a crime of capitalisation. < 1297552628 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens if they tie? < 1297552630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*crime of orthography. < 1297552633 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It hasn't finished because it'll tie in 100K cycles all the time. < 1297552676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And because we're not using Lance(TM), the Fastmaker. < 1297552683 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Then fix that AND import it into BF_Joust :P < 1297552685 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the new one will probably suck < 1297552696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Rather than working on lance?? < 1297552707 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: AND WHY'S THAT < 1297552711 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100K cycles? < 1297552716 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the new one will probably suck < 1297552716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The limit. < 1297552720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And why's what < 1297552720 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa < 1297552721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: ? < 1297552723 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1297552729 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1297552734 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why is it that we're not using lance :P < 1297552735 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome, we can DDoS EgoBot < 1297552736 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm running out of Gs < 1297552742 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i started at 3G < 1297552748 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now it's laG < 1297552752 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what should cause the most ties? < 1297552761 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Not very effectively. < 1297552767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust tie_the_knot ((+)*-1)*-1 < 1297552771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Because you want me to edit wiki pages instead! < 1297552776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust < 1297552792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, codu.org went down. < 1297552799 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A) The first 'D' is a lie < 1297552804 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ < 1297552805 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B) It doesn't disable any other services < 1297552805 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C) You can't even get it running two at once < 1297552815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : A) The first 'D' is a lie < 1297552817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1297552823 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Distributed" < 1297552837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must be TEH LAGGING < 1297552850 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :codu was slow before < 1297552858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust dos ((()*-1)*-1)*-1 < 1297552859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH < 1297552860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WENT THERE < 1297552873 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does *-1 do? < 1297552877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*10K < 1297552918 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely (()*-1)*10 does the same? < 1297552927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10,000, not 10K < 1297552996 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1297553007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wow, it's actually running it. < 1297553026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust dos ((([)*-1)*-1)*-1 < 1297553099 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good question: Why did I type DDoS? < 1297553180 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : This has apparently lead to a 23,000% increase in DVD sales for them. <--- *wow* < 1297553278 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, what? < 1297553423 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, see log < 1297553504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And piracy contributes to sales too! Zomg it's unbeliebable, the RIAAAA says it ain't so!!! < 1297553525 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on the piracy and pirated program, really < 1297553529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1297553604 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pirated single-player games might not encourage conversion to sales the way, say, Minecraft does < 1297553604 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1297553604 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, this is only a guess. I'd like to see actual studies < 1297553616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sentence was incoherent. < 1297553622 0 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297553673 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pirated copies of Minecraft necessarily do not have all features that the full version does (with regards to going online). Single player games don't have that advantage. < 1297553680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What do you mean? The majority of Minecraft play is single-player. < 1297553683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, that's quite irrelevant. < 1297553697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are many reports of Minecraft pirates whining about not being able to play multiplayer, but not buying the game. < 1297553712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And similarly there are many people who buy the game after only playing it pirated in single-player without the desire for SMP. < 1297553723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Also, WTF made you think I was referring to games only? < 1297553732 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But are there pirates who bought the game specifically for SMP? < 1297553783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly. But I see no indication that Minecraft's sales from piracy would be any worse if multiplayer was free for anyone. < 1297553801 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297553810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't heard much "I bought it to play on SMP" at all; I've heard a lot of "my annoying friend keeps whining that he can't play SMP with his pirated copy, and won't pay for it" and "I bought it after 3 SECONDS of playing singleplayer! SO AMAZING~~" < 1297553822 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1297554253 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting < 1297554257 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1297555095 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1297555179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey Gregor < 1297555187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's cool if lance has weird random bugs right? < 1297555191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll TOTALLY STILL USE IT? < 1297555193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fixing sounds hard)