< 1298678919 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it safe to say that if I wrote an esolang interpreter in Clojure, you'd all shoot me? < 1298678938 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I updated the inner clear of FFSPG to use (({{}})), which it was always supposed to use. < 1298679021 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... How many different non-singular nxn matrices over GF(2) there are? For n = 2, there are 6. < 1298679406 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time for still more linear algebra. < 1298679665 0 :cheater-!~cheater@g224203115.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1298679834 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298679836 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW: The program found 134 cubes. And looks like it ran out of range, so there are probably more. < 1298679882 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1298679888 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-145-209.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298679896 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The biggest is about 6.8*10^26 in magnitude. < 1298680106 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Checked: 1G cubes, found 134, largest 677667955666576979957565952 < 1298680373 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, there are still periods without known oscillators in the Game of Life. < 1298680381 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19, 23, 34, 38, 41, 43, 53. < 1298680422 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They discovered some new periods? < 1298680444 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Hm? < 1298680454 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They did, yes. < 1298680460 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :31 and 37 were discovered by random search. < 1298680470 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pentadecathlon.com/lifeNews/2011/01/is_life_omniperiodic.html < 1298680512 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A particularly small universal Turing machine (henceforth abbreviated to UTM) is the 7-state 4-symbol machine by Minsky. There even exists a UTM with only two states and three symbols, discovered by Stephen Wolfram." < 1298680516 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"discovered by" *sigh* < 1298680607 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The printer design is very simple and easily adapted to other uses, such as a hexadecimal printer with alphanumeric characters A-F added, similar to the extended printer in the fine-structure-constant-generating pattern that appeared at the beginning of April." < 1298680613 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is it the fine structure constant of Life? :-) < 1298680703 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. Tangent-0 17c/45 spaceship gun... That would be caterpillar gun? < 1298680757 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1298681000 0 :comex_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1298681206 0 :comex!comex@c-67-188-10-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298681267 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1298681330 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would be quite impressive and high-period. At about 331k cells long, it would take about 875k cycles just to clear the gun barrel. < 1298681375 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Universal constructor. Could probably build a caterpillar. < 1298681453 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When attempting to view some forum, I got the message "Sorry, 172.29.30.76 has been banned." (with the 403 status code) instead of the forum view. I can find at least 2 things wrong with that. Can you? < 1298681461 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1298681468 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Well, there's a universal constructor, and also a knightship self-replicator... < 1298681469 0 :comex!comex@c-67-188-10-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298681469 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :local ip address? < 1298681513 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :403 seems like maybe not the best choice too, but whatever < 1298681540 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one thing, that isn't even my IP address. < 1298681542 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, 403 is forbidden < 1298681547 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess it makes sense < 1298681552 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most things would return a legit html page or something < 1298681558 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it's not your ip address, it couldn't be < 1298681558 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. Reminds me when I got one site to block itself (broke some things). < 1298681573 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, unless the server was on a local network with you < 1298681602 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :172.16-31.*.* is reserved < 1298681607 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RFC1918. < 1298681608 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for local use, like 10.* < 1298681614 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 192.168.* < 1298681634 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, in case of being banned, you should still be able to view it (it should only prohibit sending messages). (You can view without being logged in!) < 1298681657 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My local network is 192.168.* anyways. < 1298681664 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be a reverse-proxy/load-balancer sort of thing, but banning the IP of a reverse-proxy frontend sounds like a rather bad move. < 1298681709 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes reloading the page causes it to load correctly, and then a bit later it will say banned again. < 1298681718 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(My LAN is 10.0/8 and some /64 in IPv6 ULA range (oh, and FE80::/16 also sees some use). < 1298681786 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: seems like maybe an admin didn't know what they were doing < 1298681790 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: fits with load balancing < 1298681806 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've used 172.something before just to be RaNdOm < 1298681840 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use 10...0/24 as the different local-network subnets here. < 1298681852 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With the same for all subnets, of course.) < 1298681921 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it does seem they banned some of the load balancing and that caused something mixed up. < 1298681977 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1298681989 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-152-193.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298682066 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there some order for local network addresses in case of one local network inside of another? < 1298682176 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't really matter how many you have inside each other < 1298682188 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you are talking about NAT here < 1298682378 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1298682443 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ips are translated, that's the T in NAT < 1298682447 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1298682455 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so when you 'nest' them, it doesn't really matter WHAT they are < 1298682471 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it's conceivable that maybe poor implementation could get confused if internal and external used the same subnet < 1298682475 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but is there a standard for the order of nesting? < 1298682504 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't go and do multi-level NAT without any particular reason, though. (Having the outer NAT controlled by someone else is a valid reason, of course.) < 1298682587 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there is generally not a good reason to do multi-level, but in some cases you do, and in these cases it might sometimes be useful to have a standard nesting order. < 1298682620 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are most routers you buy using 192.168.* group? < 1298682649 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I would guess so; and 192.168.0.0/24 and 192.168.1.0/24 are probably the most popular single /24s inside that. < 1298682664 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean about the 'order of nesting' < 1298682668 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no reason for it < 1298682682 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't affect anything, or at least it shouldn't < 1298682698 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly in order to prevent confusion, is the reason for having an order of nesting. Not much else. < 1298682705 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only time i've had a problem with local ips is when my stepmom's work used a common router subnet for their VPN < 1298682707 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was dumb of them < 1298682724 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could have chosen something else and not had to put up with a big chunk of tech support calls from people VPNing from home < 1298682743 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually (even though it's not at all a standard) my gut feeling is that 192.168.0.0/16 is what "normal people"/"consumers" use; 10.0.0.0/8 is used by "enterprise-level solutions"; and 172.16.0.0/12 is used by people who just want to be different (and/or is not used at all). < 1298682790 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I've seen 10.x quite often in corporate contexts, and all home-router defaults seem to come from the 192.168. area. < 1298682800 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then they should assign one group for VPN in order to prevent such problems with VPN. < 1298682829 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's still problematical if you want to be connected to more than one VPN at the same time. < 1298682842 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my first dsl modem used 10 < 1298682881 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here the modem uses 10.x address internally. < 1298682901 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back at dialup times I think at least one ISP used 10.x addresses for their nameservers and such. < 1298682911 0 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric < 1298682915 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The recursive-query ones used by their clients, that is. < 1298682941 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And perhaps even as the PPP link remote-endpoint, I don't think PPP endpoints need to be in the same network at all. < 1298682942 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and that is indeed the reason I use 10.x for this LAN). < 1298682986 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SLIRP by default uses some magical 10.x addresses too. < 1298683002 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: It looks like you are connected using IPv6 address though. < 1298683013 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is all LAN-internal stuff. < 1298683043 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But does your connection to the internet is IPv6, while the LAN is IPv4? < 1298683049 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is absolutely no valid reason to be able to reach that modem internal address from outside this LAN. < 1298683072 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, jwhois is so clever: < 1298683073 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ whois 2002:5870:3714::1 < 1298683073 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Querying for the IPv4 endpoint 88.112.55.20 of a 6to4 IPv6 address. < 1298683074 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you would be correct. < 1298683099 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298683116 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAN can carry both IPv4 and IPv6 traffic. < 1298683144 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I do not have whois, but I could connect to one if I know the host name (or IP address) and port number of a whois server, and then see what it does. < 1298683149 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Haven't considered going to a v6-only LAN setup? It'd be like you were living ten years in the future. :p < 1298683181 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are IPv6 LAN addresses? Are they just the translation from the IPv4 LAN addresses into IPv6? Are there others? < 1298683206 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are very different. < 1298683256 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the host name and port number for the whois servers? How do I figure out what they are? < 1298683268 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "unique local address" (ULA) addresses perhaps correspond closest to current private-network addresses. < 1298683277 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And/or the deprecated site-local scope addresses. < 1298683320 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some IPv6 traffic in this LAN actually involves 2000::/3 block adresses. < 1298683455 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: There isn't really a good way to determine the whois server responsible for a particular address/domain; though there are a few attempts. (tld.whois-servers.net tries to be a CNAME of the whois server for .tld domains, and there are some forwarding records from whois servers you can follow. In particular, I think whois.iana.org redirects into the reponsible RIR?) < 1298683479 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's a standardish port, 43. < 1298683562 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot connect to tld.whois-servers.net, it cannot resolve the domain name. < 1298683575 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean com.whois-servers.net and so on. < 1298683582 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But at least now I know what port number is whois. < 1298683588 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OK. < 1298683594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, if you ask whois.iana.org about my IP, it answers back with (among other fluff) "refer: whois.ripe.net". < 1298683599 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can keep following those. < 1298683652 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I figured out what causes the escalating ping delay: IPsec < 1298683763 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like the whois replies also include advertisements from people registering domain names that start with the one you are trying to search for. < 1298683829 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, for domains maybe. < 1298683837 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ones for IP addresses just contain poetry. < 1298683861 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1298683879 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In case of SixXS tunnels, you can keep following the records like this: http://p.zem.fi/v55u -- though for whois.sixxs.net the forwarding isn't automatic, it's just mentioned in the remarks: section. < 1298683911 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, removed IPv4 addresses from interfaces (on this computer, the other one needs those). Let's see what breaks. < 1298683970 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari_antrcomp: Do you have some sort of a NAT64/DNS64 system there, or some other transition mechanism? If not, I would assume all IPv4-only sites would break. :p < 1298683972 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh, and of course 127.0.0.1 is still there. < 1298683986 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REMOVE 127.0.0.1!!!!!! < 1298683994 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It won't remove. :-/ < 1298684005 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: IPv4-only sites -- heh, like, all sites < 1298684017 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Well, there's a v6 facebook, what else do you need? < 1298684056 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would guess that you can connect to whois using a (good quality) gopher client, with no problem. You could connect to finger and daytime as well. < 1298684062 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you can nowadays build a Linux kernel with IPv6 but not IPv4 support. ISTR it wasn't possible at some point, since the v6 code depended too much on the v4 code and not on some common, shared set. < 1298684069 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can. < 1298684079 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I don't recall the IPv4 checkbox being force-ticked when IPv6 was. < 1298684181 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IPV6 .. Depends on: NET [=y] && INET [=y] :/ < 1298684194 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww. < 1298684257 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least you can do IPv6 netfilter without IPv4 support, they have a common higher-level "core" part. < 1298684363 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm honestly a bit surprised no-one has yet managed to sneak in a netfilter module to do some sort of ad-hoc IPv6 NAT. < 1298684408 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, found one place that assumed IPv4 connectivity to another computer. Fixed & tested. < 1298684429 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even that NAT66 (prefix translation) < 1298684430 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Enjoying your 4 am computer-breaking? < 1298684437 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1298684452 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good, good. < 1298684672 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact I don't think the mangle table in v6-netfilter can really do much anything. Okay, you can MARK/CONNMARK/etc connections there (and then apply different routing tables based on those), and twiddle the DSCP/hop limit/TCP MSS/TOS values, but that's about it. < 1298684678 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. Tcpdump (to see what's on that LAN spoke) warns about lack of IPv4 address. < 1298684691 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries Leksah
< 1298684747 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tcpdump is fond of that warning, I think you get the same if you tcpdump a slaved-to-bridge iface that doesn't have/need any v4 addresses. < 1298684849 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WARNING: You are probably a time traveller! < 1298684920 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[PH-logreading:] (Block log); 01:55 . . Conficker (Talk | contribs) blocked Gooniepunk2010 (Talk | contribs) with an expiry time of 3 seconds (about right) (account creation disabled) (Member of a website supporting internet terrorism) < 1298684928 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are three-second blocks the... norm on RationalWiki? < 1298684946 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, looks like a beuaroeuaroeouar- bear crat. < 1298685105 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun: One can add the same IP address to two different interfaces. < 1298685205 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: You use a tunnel right? < 1298685209 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So your ISP is v4-only? < 1298685214 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU'RE COMMUNICATING WITH A V4 HOST < 1298685214 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1298685216 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE < 1298685220 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RECONFIGURE YOUR MODEM < 1298685221 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND ROUTER < 1298685226 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make them refuse to connect to your ISP. < 1298685228 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1298685231 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Purity at last! < 1298685304 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no seperate router. < 1298685334 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they just wanted to add it to the ban log instead of making them banned. < 1298685342 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Holistically Balanced™ guarantees that the constituents of the extract are in the same synergistic ratios as in the plant." < 1298685342 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1298685345 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Reconfigure the moderouter, then. < 1298685347 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moderouterm. < 1298685398 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Including all the toxins? :-) < 1298685429 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I make wiki for TeXnicard? < 1298685546 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like the thing is a hub to LAN side, not a router. < 1298685647 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: NO. < 1298685649 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ARE FORBIDDEN. < 1298685675 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Aren't you still crying on the floor? < 1298685680 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, note that you are probably not actually forbidden < 1298685780 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not asking whether or not I am forbidden. I am asking if I can. < 1298685960 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How should we know? < 1298686186 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clove must be the most powerful friggin' extract I have ever dealt with. < 1298686408 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the git protocol, so that it can make wiki that keeps the list of changes in the git repository? < 1298686429 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Just call out to the git command-line tool. That's what everyone does. < 1298686440 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or use a git library in your language of choice, though if that language is PHP you're out of luck. < 1298686445 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it exists. < 1298686446 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glip. < 1298686457 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://fimml.at/#glip < 1298686467 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it does not have to be PHP, of course. It could also be CGI. < 1298686553 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could also be a C program with Cygwin. < 1298686580 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin is slow enough that just shelling out to git would make no noticeable speed difference. < 1298686694 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, does Cygwin include git library for using in C programs? < 1298686718 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin doesn't include anything. < 1298686724 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is just a compatibility layer. < 1298686731 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think git comes with a library these days. < 1298686747 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have Cygwin installed and it happens to include git, too. < 1298686773 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the C library, can I check if it has it? < 1298686946 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, maybe I can look at glip codes to figure out how to make it in PHP4. < 1298687015 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it needs to work over secure shell protocol since that is what repo.or.cz uses. < 1298687030 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1298687048 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1298687321 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was probably a bad idea to end up having all of my linear algebra homework pending the day before it's due. < 1298687328 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank God I'm quick. < 1298688118 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1298688372 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1298688401 0 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric < 1298688860 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:43:11 999999 = 1M999 < 1298688862 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful < 1298689253 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear textbook: computing an O(n!) algorithm more than once is stupid and retarded and stupid. < 1298689278 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear textbook: computing an O(n!) algorithm when there exists an O(n^3) algorithm is fundamentally pointless. < 1298689307 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, the O(n^3) algorithm in question is also in the textbook) < 1298689941 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds vaguely like matrix inversion there. (Was the determinant-based solution O(n!)?) < 1298689967 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computing a determinant via cofactor expansion is O(n!). < 1298689983 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computing it via row reduction is O(n^3). < 1298691178 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:32:17 Just for giggles, I wrote a program to use (attempt to) use genetic algorithms to generate a P'' program that will produce the text "Hello, world!" < 1298691179 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:32:27 The closest it got after 1000 iterations was "HMMMMMMMMMMM!" < 1298691179 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:32:48 (PS I don't have a fegging clue how to do this) < 1298691179 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmmmmm. < 1298691227 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Sony has been sued due to them removing OtherOS feature and ability to run PlayStation 2 games. I probably will not buy it, but I definitely will not buy it if they do not put both of these features back on. < 1298691352 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Just the OtherOS feature. < 1298691371 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. they are being sued for that. under the same code they were suing under. < 1298691381 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:47:04 Also, it gets caught in local optima way to easily :( < 1298691382 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:47:23 Its equation for the hypotenuse of a triangle: x+.5*y X_X < 1298691384 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: They only stopped having the PS2 compatibility on new systems; if you bought a PS2-compatible system, it is still PS2-compatible. < 1298691385 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is my favourite < 1298691391 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's close enough if you ask me < 1298691409 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:48:23 --- quit: sanxiyn ("전 이만 갑니다.") < 1298691409 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what are those characters... < 1298691410 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3+0.5*4=5 < 1298691415 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Hangul. < 1298691417 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: like i said. close enough. < 1298691421 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4+0.5*3=5.5 < 1298691424 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very clsoe < 1298691433 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very clsoe indeed. < 1298691437 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As clsoe as close is to clsoe. < 1298691440 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't tell you more than that, because I don't speak Korean. < 1298691445 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: right < 1298691458 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clsoer than i am to my ex-gf < 1298691508 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, being of at least average intelligence, I could probably learn Hangul in a few hours if I cared to. < 1298691512 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :135th cube... < 1298691514 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: MEGAN~ < 1298691532 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, they do both hardware and software remove features. This should not be acceptable. Other things they removed in the hardware is some USB ports, which means you need a USB hub. < 1298691545 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Removing USB ports is UNACCEPTABLE < 1298691556 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your product has 3 USB points at any point in time, it can never decrease to only having 2 USB ports. < 1298691557 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I consider removing features from later hardware revisions annoying, but acceptable. < 1298691558 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should be illegal. < 1298691564 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ILLEGAL < 1298691587 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not because it had 3 USB and now as 2. It used to have 4. < 1298691592 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Removing stuff via firmware updates? Pretty bullshit. < 1298691599 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: OH NOOOOOOOOO < 1298691609 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: are you referencing the recurring character from xkcd? < 1298691618 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So now you cannot play a 4 player game with wired USB controllers unless you have a USB hub. < 1298691621 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Removing a feature that's listed on the fucking box via firmware updates? Complete and utter bullshit, and I want there to be a hell for those responsible to fry in. < 1298691623 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: *ex-gf of Randall < 1298691635 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: And the stock controllers aren't wired. :) < 1298691635 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has that been confirmed? < 1298691641 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: There is no possible way Megan is fictional. < 1298691649 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: You could ask him. < 1298691652 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless Randall had a relationship with a fictional character. < 1298691659 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I suppose is... possible... < 1298691661 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: he's pretty private about that sort of thing < 1298691661 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#xkcd on irc.foonetic.jet < 1298691666 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foonetic dot JET < 1298691670 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :net < 1298691672 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: i doubt that was her name even if she's based in fact < 1298691672 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1298691675 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's served from a jet plane. < 1298691682 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Removing features using firmware update is even more unacceptable. < 1298691687 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Names are irrelevant. < 1298691702 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1298691705 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think removing PS2 support is also stupid and unacceptable, although that seems to also be a hardware issue? < 1298691719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: How do you feel about PCs no longer shipping with BASIC in the BIOS? < 1298691730 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:02:35 ok, I already knew what monads are then, just not the word < 1298691730 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:03:06 why "monad" though? < 1298691731 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:03:22 Dunno. What else might they be called? < 1298691731 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:03:34 function objects? < 1298691731 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The universal sign of non-comprehension. < 1298691733 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I dislike it. Now it means you need to install an operating system! < 1298691736 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i do know what he got on the mental disease survey though :P < 1298691745 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and yeah, they removed PS2 support because the hardware for that was pretty expensive, and they wanted to cut costs. < 1298691748 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You are attempting to use logic on zzo38. This has been a PSA. < 1298691759 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Then they should put an emulator. < 1298691774 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(launch systems had an entire PS2 in there, later ones just had the PS2's GPU, then they cut that.) < 1298691781 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The PS2 is a *royal* bitch to emulate. < 1298691812 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt we'll be capable of decent PS2 emulation on normal hardware for 10 years. < 1298691818 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:51:52 HURD sounds nice < 1298691818 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:55:34 It does. And if somebody would care to help out the GNU system maintainer, it would even *be* nice. < 1298691819 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:56:04 (ams, in #natter and ##hurd. . . Ironically, in spite of being GNU maintainer, he's banned from #gnu) < 1298691819 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:56:53 hmph < 1298691819 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:57:49 microkernels are elegant < 1298691819 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then they should readd the OtherOS feature so that other people can collaborate to make the PS2 emulator and run on PS3, and then ship the PS3 with that program preinstalled as an operating system. < 1298691821 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:00:02 Pikhq: must be a complete asshole? < 1298691823 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:03:52 Nope. The channel owner kicked out a lot of the ops. < 1298691830 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: HATING HIM TO RECTIFY YOUR PREVIOUS MISJUDGEMENTS, I SEE < 1298691836 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:11:18 zomg, ams isn't in #gnu anymore? < 1298691836 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:11:34 That channel might be tolerable now, then < 1298691854 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Well, he *is* a complete ass, but that's not why he got kicked out. < 1298691882 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Channel founder had a power trip and booted out a bunch of ops, including ams. < 1298691892 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I blame you for subconsciously planting (note: lies) the idea in my head that helping ams out would be a good idea, leading to him developing a hatred for me X-P < 1298691898 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1298691910 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He'd have probably been nicer if I called his mother a goat and /ignored him. < 1298691943 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure why I thought he was anything but an ass then. < 1298691954 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RABID GNU FANBOYISM < 1298691975 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, *RMS* thinks ams is an ass. < 1298691988 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The PS3 is very powerful so hopefully it should be possible to emulate PS2 at a reasonable speed if enough people try. If the OtherOS feature is put back, enough people *will* try, and then Sony can make the PS2 emulator as the default operating system in OtherOS mode. < 1298691988 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, really? < 1298691990 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did that one transpire < 1298691997 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No, emulating the PS2 is almost impossible. < 1298692001 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has like three CPUs. < 1298692009 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I think two CPUs and one very powerful GPU. < 1298692014 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq can correct me on that. < 1298692018 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emulating that is almost impossible. < 1298692019 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :powerful? < 1298692020 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: More than that. < 1298692024 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :powerful for a long time ago < 1298692033 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: They pushed the PS3 hardware nearly to the max just emulating the PS2-minus-the-GPU. < 1298692039 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it has a freaking *weird* GPU. < 1298692040 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I don't actually own a PS2, but I do know that emulating the entire thing is pretty much impossible. :p < 1298692044 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The PS3 has eight cores isn't it? (Only seven can be used (one is reserved for the PS3 system and is disabled in OtherOS mode), but you should be able to, somehow) < 1298692048 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(On, you know, consumer hardware.) < 1298692052 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: GPUs aren't easy to emulate at all. < 1298692060 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emulating a GPU with a CPU is a basically futile task. < 1298692067 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, look at the Checkout language. < 1298692076 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole point is that you can't do those kinds of things with a CPU. < 1298692088 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: All 7 were used to emulate the rest of the PS2's hardware when they did mostly software emulation. < 1298692095 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was surprised he knows so much about gpu actually < 1298692115 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then they would need to make the GPU in PS3 also programmable in OtherOS mode. < 1298692122 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1298692128 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1298692135 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: who knows so much about gpu? < 1298692138 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the author of Checkout? < 1298692139 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais < 1298692141 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would require them to do so, that is what they have to pay for removing two features!! < 1298692147 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: his supervisor is some kind of gpu maniac, so i'm not surprised :) < 1298692152 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't know that < 1298692164 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ok you realise that < 1298692166 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :removing features is not illegal < 1298692168 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor even inherently bad? < 1298692186 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: also, a programmable gpu is crazy talk. are you that crazy? < 1298692187 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; but both of these features are important and advertised features. < 1298692202 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I am a bit crazy < 1298692218 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The freaking thing has 4 CPUs and a weird-ass GPU. < 1298692266 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, for no good reason, can do up to 1080p. < 1298692266 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote zzo38: also, a programmable gpu is crazy talk. are you that crazy? quintopia: I am a bit crazy < 1298692300 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: They should have included a REAL LIVE DUCK with its brain hooked up to the motherboard, just so that full emulation requires emulating a duck. < 1298692305 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they even still sell PlayStation 2? < 1298692313 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emulation: SOLVED. < 1298692314 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yes. < 1298692316 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :319) zzo38: also, a programmable gpu is crazy talk. are you that crazy? quintopia: I am a bit crazy < 1298692323 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yes. < 1298692330 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: $99 for a brand-new PS2. < 1298692335 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they do still sell PlayStation 2, then the problem is not quite as serious. < 1298692338 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The PS2 has made insane amounts of money over its lifespan and will continue to make insane amounts of money for the forseeable future. < 1298692355 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they only intend to stop selling the PS2 when it stops selling. < 1298692364 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is likely to be sometime after the PS4 comes out at this rate. < 1298692416 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's freaking hit 11 years of sales and has no signs of stopping. < 1298692468 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1298692482 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose then, that PS3 not running PS2 programs is not as serious, but it still might be false advertising. OtherOS feature being removed is therefore more serious, and that might also be false advertising. < 1298692490 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as of 2009Q4, PS3 outsells it... < 1298692496 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's a sigh of stopping... < 1298692504 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/gh/gn/ < 1298692507 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: They don't freaking advertise that it does PS2 emulation anymore. < 1298692554 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Removing shit via firmware upgrades with no recourse to legally restore an older firmware is Evil(TM) and should arguably be illegal. < 1298692559 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they should advetrise that it does *not* do PS2 emulation (at least in the manual), to clarify it. Because they are all called "PlayStation" and this might confuse some people. < 1298692561 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Removing features on new models is perfectly acceptable. < 1298692568 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS3: Revision 3 might just be a cardboard box with a horn in it. < 1298692571 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that would be fine. < 1298692591 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It's only false advertising if it can confuse someone who isn't an idiot. < 1298692593 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: That part about firmware upgrades I agree with; it is far worse than removing hardware features from new hardware. < 1298692594 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Yup, 3 years after its successor came out the PS3 finally started to outsell the PS2. < 1298692606 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Rearrange that. < 1298692613 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1298692622 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost everyone who wants a PS2 has one. < 1298692625 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There can only be so many sales on top of that. < 1298692631 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: OK, it is not false aftertise then; still it is possible someone might think it does, which is why the manual at least should mention that it does not run PS2 games. < 1298692649 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it probably does >.> < 1298692711 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Removing features from new hardware is not quite as bad, but I still think in many cases it is not very good; especially if the new hardware is not said to be a completely new product with a different name and everything like that. < 1298692750 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: as long as they don't say "new and improved!" < 1298692762 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Well, just this January they sold 260,000. < 1298692781 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. If they say "new and improved" then they are completely wrong; the only improvement is the larger hard drive. < 1298692827 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, pales in comparison with the other consoles (getting about a million each), but that's pretty significant to be pulling *5 years after it was made obsolete*. < 1298692919 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And I do also think there are many problems with modern PC BIOS; although a new one can still be written, so it is not too much of a problem. The only real problem is that new PC will not run without an operating system.) < 1298693000 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just replace the BIOS with Open Firmware. < 1298693014 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Super-fast, extremely elegant, incredibly simple, and you have a full Forth system at your disposal without any need for an operating system. < 1298693026 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not only that, but the Forth system has full access to the system hardware and the booting process. < 1298693044 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: That would work. Does Open Firmware work for normal PC operation? < 1298693045 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even better, Open Firmware is a fully open standard. < 1298693053 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yes. There are implementations of Open Firmware for x86 processors. < 1298693098 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I mean is, can you still install the same operating systems using the same PC BIOS calls and that stuff? Is it possible to make a combination of Open Firmware with PC BIOS? < 1298693142 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there might be a compatibility layer. Not sure. < 1298693152 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know all _that_ much about Open Firmware. < 1298693159 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it was certainly nice on that 1998 iMac. < 1298693194 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be possible to do, in the same manner of EFI emulation. < 1298693228 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth is pretty much the perfect BIOS language. < 1298693249 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Yes I agree it is the best program language to have built-in to the BIOS. < 1298693251 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incredibly simple implementation, full access to the underlying hardware, concise, readable and efficient, and fully extensible. < 1298693427 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What else would be useful in there is a command that takes a URL (or address/port/selector) as parameter, and then downloads the file to RAM and executes the file (which you might use to install a operating system over the internet in case you have no physical media to install an operating system from). < 1298693456 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would put in a terminal emulator, too (but that is just me). < 1298693648 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you would have to initialise all the network hardware too < 1298693654 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey i forgot about this http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/CRTL < 1298693690 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey oklopol wrote a program in that < 1298693695 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think oerjan might like that language o' mine < 1298693760 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Network booting tends to be a supported thing in most places. (I haven't bothered to read the context here.) < 1298693778 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually by downloading a file over tftp or something. < 1298693780 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: this channel is now about http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/CRTL < 1298693849 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When ais523 comes in, it should be about Checkout because I typed something on the Talk page for that article. < 1298693880 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But CRTL is more funs. < 1298693931 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can discuss CRTL too. But when ais523 comes in I will also discuss Checkout too. < 1298694024 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Open Firmware is the nicest, though: the devices (PCI cards and such) had platform-independent forth bytecode drivers burned on ROM on them, so Open Firmware itself didn't need to know about all possible network cards and other hardware, it just used the bundled driver for basic functionality. < 1298694153 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The above context was basically Open Firmware lovin'. < 1298694174 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The problem is in case some devices do not have such drivers? However, I think Open Firmware is still good idea in general. < 1298694178 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A rare example of a truly minimal, clean, usable and elegant system being put into widespread use without complaints. < 1298694373 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe not quite widespread use as it should, though. Most PC BIOS does not include Open Firmware. Although they really should include it. < 1298694424 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I was referring to the fact that all New World ROM Macintoshes used it. < 1298694445 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, every iMac and Power Macintosh-post-1998 up until the Intel switchover. < 1298694493 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1298694521 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298694569 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many Sun boxes too, under the name OpenBoot. < 1298694584 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1298694766 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1298694856 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:58:24 your real name is elliott hird, mine is oklofoan polakir < 1298694860 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always with the lies < 1298694863 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my real name is john < 1298694869 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pork john interval < 1298694973 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@unaffiliated/poiuy-qwert/x-0506151 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298695055 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interval: Greatest surname ever? < 1298695153 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1298695157 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not biased) < 1298695163 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pork: Greatest forename ever? < 1298695166 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1298695168 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not biased) < 1298695179 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: All I need is a Ph.D. < 1298695182 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good morning, Dr. Interval. < 1298695188 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEST SUPERHERO/VILLAIN EVER < 1298695399 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1298696154 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298697102 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1298697855 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1298697922 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-236-77.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298698595 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL|afk < 1298698784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298698799 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-247-180.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298699144 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088172176.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1298700341 0 :TLUL|afk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL < 1298700375 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298700415 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1298700704 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know a way to get google to stop treating newer stuff as more relevant. I'm trying to find information that is over a decade old < 1298702224 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The conversion to a C string in-place means we need to read one less than the size of the buffer." < 1298702234 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"All these issues resulted in compile time errors." < 1298702250 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compile time checking of off-by-one errors? < 1298702258 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or, well, at least this one) < 1298702403 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1298702418 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-181-53.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298703852 0 :zeotrope!~abc@unaffiliated/zeotrope JOIN :#esoteric < 1298704609 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally finished with linear algebra. < 1298704653 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, now would be a bad time to ask you to teach me algebra? < 1298704658 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*linear algebra < 1298704688 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It would be much easier for you to learn outside of a classroom, I expect. < 1298704710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you would be able to completely avoid the retarded emphasis on manual computation of algorithms that have no right to be done that way. < 1298704757 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vaguely remembers writing Python scripts to do his Spanish homework and TI-BASIC programs to do his math homework
< 1298704761 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially mother-fucking O(n!) algorithms. < 1298704770 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Enn. Factorial. < 1298704844 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, surely for very very small problems it's not that bad? < 1298704847 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*innocent look* < 1298704847 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or O(n^3); that's pretty bitchy, too. < 1298704856 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's still a bitch. < 1298704901 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides that what pikhq needs is a nice O(1) problem
< 1298704921 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's this sort of shit that makes people hate math: bland, pointless algorithm computation is done *in place of* math. < 1298704951 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What, like 1-digit multiplication? Where we memorise a look-up table? < 1298704959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1298704985 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would rewriting a matrix size n*n with bottom rows on the top etc. be O(sqrt(n))? < 1298705752 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1298705862 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:35:52 --- join: oerjan (oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no) joined #esoteric < 1298705867 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf timezone is that < 1298705934 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298706077 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like UTC-9. < 1298706156 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alaska Standard Time, French Polynesia time, and Hawaii-Aleutian Daylight Time. < 1298706169 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Wait, 23:35? < 1298706182 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTC-8:30? The fuck? < 1298706221 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i actually joined 09:08 in my timezone < 1298706248 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, looks like 01:08 in my timezone. < 1298706320 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually i'd expect UTC-9 from clog at this time of year at least < 1298706334 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1298706335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... UTC-9? Is clog in Alaska? < 1298706338 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTC-8 < 1298706348 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, see, that'd make sense. < 1298706361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet clog just doesn't sync with NTP. < 1298706366 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(forgot my own timezone isn't UTC) < 1298706379 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but 35 minutes? :D < 1298706400 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the more reason for NTP. < 1298706401 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i'm pretty sure it was reasonably synced not _that_ long ago < 1298706412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, unless it's inexplicably on Pitcairn Island time. < 1298706421 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which ceased to be UTC-8:30 in '98) < 1298706447 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh i thought pitcairn was further west than that < 1298706510 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's a bit east of Hawai'i. < 1298706524 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And quite a bit further south. < 1298706597 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm yeah north america is far more west than south, so it's still in the middle of the ocean < 1298706605 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*than south america < 1298706666 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://maps.google.no/maps?hl=no&biw=1070&bih=592&q=pitcairn%20island%20map&wrapid=tlif129870841650011&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl < 1298706696 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit i was hoping that included my unzooming < 1298706832 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some inexplicable reason the right click menu for the (i assume) permalink inside google maps _lacks the actual "copy this link" item!_ < 1298706849 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i tried the address bar, which didn't work < 1298706864 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://maps.google.no/maps?hl=no&q=pitcairn+island+map&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Hereheretue&ll=-19.973349,-144.84375&spn=123.556837,242.226563&t=h&z=2 < 1298706878 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actual had to open that in order to copy the address < 1298706881 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ly < 1298707199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1298707200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1298707367 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIL: I have the same birthday as William Shatner. < 1298707387 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who turns fucking *80* next month. < 1298707947 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298709521 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1298710833 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1298712819 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1298712928 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-255-63.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298712994 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiling gcc is annoying < 1298713225 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-13-173.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298713298 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1298713463 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088172176.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1298713488 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, because it takes ages < 1298713504 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, and now the dep cloog is acting up and don't want to compile < 1298713521 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screw it, I'll just compile with the proper -march on another computer that has the right gcc version... < 1298713524 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a personal problem < 1298713529 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, ... what? < 1298713552 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to ping me right now. there is no one else talking :P < 1298713559 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still: what < 1298713566 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I'm used to high traffic channels < 1298713575 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nickpinging is a habit that is hard to get rid of < 1298713619 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, besides, what did you mean with "sounds like a personal problem" < 1298713654 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i understand, but it's good to not forget the reasons why you do something, and you know, not do stuff that isn't necessary if possible < 1298713667 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like your personal sstem is the problem < 1298713674 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet others can compile it just fine :P < 1298713683 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define "sstem" < 1298713702 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I can compile it just fine on other computers < 1298713707 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it takes ages there too < 1298713721 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame that computer for it. Ubuntu LTS < 1298713801 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lucid? i run lucid. i bet i could compile it no probs bobs < 1298713822 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, gcc 4.5.2 ? < 1298713827 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, and yes lucid < 1298713863 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, also needs to go into $HOME/local/gcc-4.5.2 btw :P < 1298713890 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I done this before (for gcc 4.5.0) and it worked but it is still a PITA < 1298713906 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially since I need 4.5.2 to compile bsnes it seems < 1298713911 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.5.0 doesn't work < 1298713918 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1298713935 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you going huh over < 1298713980 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great. Compiling on another computer almost worked. < 1298713996 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ldd ./bsnes | grep not < 1298713997 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : libao.so.4 => not found < 1298714005 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from that < 1298714177 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/bsnes: symbol lookup error: bin/bsnes: undefined symbol: _ZN9QListData11detach_growEPii < 1298714179 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay what the heck < 1298714258 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ nm -CD bin/bsnes | grep detach_grow < 1298714258 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : U QListData::detach_grow(int*, int) < 1298714259 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1298714262 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly QT < 1298714274 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screw it. Lets try statically linked < 1298714314 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : link += -s -ldl -lX11 -lXext <-- or maybe not < 1298714320 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ldl doesn't sound good < 1298714351 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed it uses dlopen < 1298714407 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give up now. settle for the massive assload of twisted hackery that is zsnes < 1298714490 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1298714712 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, zsnes doesn't run the game in question properly < 1298714720 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, besides it worked with some LD_PRELOAD stuff < 1298714731 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I copied most of the QT libraries across < 1298714734 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oic < 1298714775 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, and the computer with gcc-4.5 that I have, which can compile this thing (runs Arch Linux) has a Sempron 3300+. The game sound stutters on it using bsnes < 1298714803 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, i'm used to game sound stuttering < 1298714831 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, I can't stand that. Lets see how it works here < 1298714841 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, need to copy roms across < 1298714947 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah smooth < 1298714949 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far < 1298715681 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, which is your favourite SNES game? < 1298715739 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMW. i'm not very exciting :P < 1298715751 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, for me it is Chrono Trigger definitely < 1298715761 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kk < 1298715818 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, haven't played it? < 1298715821 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well worth it < 1298715859 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than Secret Of Mana and the Final Fantasy series even IMO. < 1298715889 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, and of course, Square developed it < 1298715952 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, Super Mario RPG is also near the top < 1298716020 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1298716161 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, I'd say that Secret of Mana comes as clear number two of best SNES games ever. Then Super Mario RPG. Then some of the Final Fantasy games. Then Zelda - A Link to the Past < 1298716514 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1298716522 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In many ways I have to say that Secret of Mana had the best battle system. Not a separate mode as such (as in Final Fantasy 3) but integrated into the continual gameplay. But Chrono Trigger beats it thanks to such an awesome story. Even though the battles are something in between the two games. < 1298716534 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(still in normal view but battle mode that is) < 1298716561 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while final fantasy 3 switches to a side view mode for battles < 1298716636 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, you don't like RPGs or? < 1298716693 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just don't snes much < 1298716696 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1298716700 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainly i don't like rpgs < 1298716714 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :platformers for me please < 1298716716 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, right. That is why our lists are so utterly different then :P < 1298716728 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't really like platformers. Not enough story < 1298716790 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, for me the story is one of the most important parts of the game. Without an epic story a game isn't worth playing (exception would be the kind of games you use to fill up a few minutes while waiting for the bus, such as a minesweeper clone or whatever) < 1298716889 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Cubes at 143. Squares still at 11 (there probably aren't more). < 1298716946 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Largest cube: 32 359 333 255 236 395 269 222 926 293. Largest square: 888 288 787 822 276 < 1298716960 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what are you doing? < 1298716975 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to calculate subsequence subsets of cubes and squares. < 1298717109 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, why? < 1298717124 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: i prefer platformers with a kick-ass story < 1298717128 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like psychonauts < 1298717166 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: For fun? < 1298717184 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but the gameplay is more important than the story overall) < 1298717433 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, ah < 1298717441 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, haven't played that one < 1298717993 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Basic idea is: Take a set of strings. Then see what strings in the set you can't strike any symbols from to get another element of the set. That is fiendishly hard for most sets (computing some members of that subset is easy, proving you got them all is very hard). < 1298718005 0 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298718044 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For primes in base-10, that set is known to contain 26 primes. < 1298718194 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, exactly 26? < 1298718391 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1298718753 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1298718818 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For powers of two in base 10, it likely contains 5 elements (1, 2, 4, 8, 65536; but proving this seems extremely hard). < 1298718834 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyway, if that set contains sixth element, it is extremely large. < 1298718978 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For squares in base 10 (starting from 0), I get: 0, 1, 4, 9, 25, 36, 576, 676, 665856, 7888885568656, 888288787822276, ... (the set either does not have more or the greater elements are much bigger than last I got). < 1298719083 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This subset is always finite (but unbounded among sets) in size. < 1298719166 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To see it is unbounded. Take set of all binary strings at least k symbols in length. The size of this subset for this set is obviously 2^k. Now as k increases without bound, 2^k increases without bound. < 1298719710 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1298719943 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1298720085 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298720125 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1298720177 0 :cheater-!~cheater@g224200234.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1298720300 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the sparser the original set, the larger the subset tends to be. Primes has subset of size 26. Absolute pseudoprimes has set of size >4000. < 1298720452 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, how regular the set is also affects it. < 1298720515 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.251.165.38 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298720516 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I think that the set is computable if the original set can be described by regular language. < 1298720687 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1298720854 0 :vovten!~Miranda@188.232.193.64 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298721046 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And for basically any set that can be described by any class of languages with following properties: 1) The class is closed under difference. 2) Emptyness of generated set is decidable, 3) The class can express strings comtaining given symbols in given order, 4) lexicographically first string described by language can be computed. < 1298721269 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: *disappears in a puff of orange smoke* < 1298721471 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The algorithm is: subset(L): S = {}; while(!empty(L)) { t = first_of(L); S = union(S, {t}); L = diffrence(L, supersequences(t)); }; return S; < 1298721500 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1298721532 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That may not be efficient, but at least that runs in finite time. < 1298721634 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what is the complexity though? < 1298721677 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also "That may not be efficient, but at least that runs in finite time." is quite a strange statement in most contexts < 1298721702 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might be something crazy, even for regular languages (to say nothing about more complicated classes). < 1298721753 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, such as? < 1298721771 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(how crazy I mean) < 1298721807 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exponential? I haven't looked at that in detail. < 1298721821 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1298721832 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, exponential isn't crazy. Just bad. < 1298721861 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, for a complexity to be officially crazy you need worse than O(n!) < 1298721889 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, "worse than or equal to" of course < 1298721896 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bogosort is O(n!) and crazy < 1298721924 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least you can make it blow up exponentially in number of states in original DFA. Most probably doubly-exponentally. < 1298722027 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, nice < 1298722621 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1298722646 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1298723883 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1298724012 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1298724155 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1298724189 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1298724216 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1298726041 0 :yorick!yorick@gateway/shell/shellium.org/x-xjghvhxtahpvlqjs JOIN :#esoteric < 1298726176 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1298726578 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1298727310 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298727525 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298732404 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-1.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298732420 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1298732965 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088172176.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1298733518 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298734951 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to try Microsoft Bob
< 1298734987 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298735156 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what do you think about Microsoft Bob? < 1298735168 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"XD". < 1298735211 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1298735301 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking about why I got into Creatures, I thought about Microsoft Agent, wikied, discovered that Microsoft Bob was a predecessor of sorts < 1298735324 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it sounds fun. And a bit like this old Greetings Workshop program I used to have and love < 1298735694 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1298735728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1298736382 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1298736832 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [...] 4) lexicographically first string described by language can be computed. <-- i think mean shortest, aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa is before b in lexicographic order < 1298736836 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you mean < 1298736918 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more relevant, ab is before b < 1298737119 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i think you can replace it with 4) _some_ string described by the language can be computed < 1298737135 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can then check every substring < 1298737170 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*subsequence string < 1298737325 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not if your lexicographical order for different-length strings is defined by padding in front with a lower-than-any-real-symbol blank. That way the shortest strings will always come first. < 1298737399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not how lexicographic order is usually defined, fizzie < 1298737535 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but it's not a too untypical ordering for arbitrary-length strings. Is there a particular term for it? < 1298737549 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort of assumed that sort of ordering from his descriptions. < 1298737676 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not if your lexicographical order for different-length strings is defined by padding in front with a lower-than-any-real-symbol blank. That way the shortest strings will always come first. <-- that assumes though that you only have to deal with finite strings < 1298737709 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the definition of string usually includes finiteness < 1298737723 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm okay < 1298737730 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: just compare from the end of the string then < 1298737735 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, that works < 1298737748 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to be the "shortlex order". < 1298737778 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty much treating strings as numbers < 1298737782 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no need to actually pad to do that < 1298737801 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it's one way to think of it. < 1298737803 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, what is? < 1298737874 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I was thinking about why I got into Creatures, I thought about Microsoft Agent, wikied, discovered that Microsoft Bob was a predecessor of sorts And it sounds fun. And a bit like this old Greetings Workshop program I used to have and love <-- gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! < 1298737885 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think this order is the same order you'd get from comparing the numbers you'd get from interpreting the strings as base-n numbers (if you have n symbols) < 1298737912 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, oh right. That seems plausible indeed. < 1298738000 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, it would work for finite positive integer n at least I'm pretty sure < 1298738020 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that fractional negative ones would be sensible) < 1298738030 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strings are usually defined with a finite set of symbols < 1298738035 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, indeed < 1298738043 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, integers are usually defined not be fractional < 1298738049 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, .D < 1298738052 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D* < 1298738070 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that was what I said though < 1298738078 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all fun and games until someone loses an eye < 1298738082 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1298738093 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what about the fractional integers!? < 1298738106 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan made those up < 1298738111 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never mentioned them < 1298738113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, Vorpal did < 1298738120 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I didn't < 1298738123 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIAR < 1298738135 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (not that fractional negative ones would be sensible) < 1298738144 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"olsner, it would work for finite positive integer n at least I'm pretty sure" "(not that fractional negative ones would be sensible)" <-- the second statement is giving a rational for the first one < 1298738159 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes that is a rationale for why I restrict it to integers and positive onesx < 1298738161 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ones* < 1298738161 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU STILL MADE THEM UP TO USE THEM FOR REASONING < 1298738175 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no, they were not integers then < 1298738180 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were non-integers < 1298738198 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like your idea of fractional integers though < 1298738199 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but bbl < 1298738220 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3DNA is basically a 3D Microsoft Bob < 1298738225 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once liked 3DNA < 1298738232 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's indeed giving a rational, since it's no longer about integers. < 1298738262 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats fizzie -----###
< 1298738272 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How irrational. < 1298738287 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm a complex person < 1298738325 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's all fun and games until someone loses an i < 1298738365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RECYCLING IS ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY. also i don't recall when/if i said that. < 1298738396 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recently, you did < 1298738407 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eye(n) is the MATLAB function to return a nxn identity matrix. < 1298738413 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um not recently, sure < 1298738426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*surely < 1298738463 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1298738481 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better put that matrix operator away, you'll shoot your I_n out. < 1298738542 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also related! PostrgreSQL time input accept the string "allballs" as representing the UTC midnight. < 1298738552 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since 00:00:00 is all balls. < 1298738714 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298738988 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf :P < 1298739029 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fis=> SELECT TIME 'allballs'; < 1298739033 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : time < 1298739033 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :---------- < 1298739036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: what are you wtfing at? < 1298739037 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 00:00:00 < 1298739045 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What fizzie just said. < 1298739051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1298739061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try "help analyse" and "help analyze" in mysql sometime < 1298739091 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"help anal lyse" < 1298739092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two completely different commands... < 1298739251 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Special date/time inputs: "epoch" (1970-01-01 00:00:00+00), "infinity", "-infinity", "now", "today", "tomorrow", "yesterday", "allballs". < 1298739285 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The infinities are later/earlier than all other timestamps, "now" is transaction start time, and the days are midnight today/tomorrow/yesterday.) < 1298739329 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, about postgres allballs.... why!? < 1298739338 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, does some silly standard specify it? < 1298739342 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is there just no reason? < 1298739358 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" 00:00:00 < 1298739361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops. < 1298739367 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm sure it isn't in any SQL standard ;-). Tom Lockhart is doubtless < 1298739367 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :responsible for it being in our code; I suppose he put it in because it < 1298739368 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is in reasonably common use at JPL." < 1298739371 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(From the mailing list.) < 1298739380 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, JPL? < 1298739400 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jet propulsion laboratory? < 1298739409 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what use they would have for a database though < 1298739432 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, for storing test results? < 1298739473 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be just a PostgreSQL developer randomly from JPL doing other stuff there. < 1298739484 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I mean considering how different a jet engine can behave over the flight envelop you end up with a lot of data from tests. < 1298739488 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/basics/bsf2-3.php mentions "all balls". < 1298739497 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is JPL! < 1298739506 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was olsner not joking? < 1298739509 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, yes. < 1298739516 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... heh < 1298739536 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: true, might not be directly related to JPL like that < 1298739601 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do seem to use Postgres there, though. < 1298739607 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298739609 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:00:00.000000 <--- that is some high precision < 1298739612 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google -> http://dsnra.jpl.nasa.gov/software/postgres/ < 1298739620 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-246.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298739697 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm something I was considering before... Not sure if anyone played all the games (and thus is able to compare them) but... How would you compare the battle/combat systems of Secret of Mana, Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy III (all for SNES) < 1298739752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Final Fantasy III (Japan), or Final Fantasy III (US)? They're entirely different games. < 1298739756 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Final Fantasy VI < 1298739762 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: He said "all for SNES" < 1298739763 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm... The US one < 1298739772 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I'm off < 1298739776 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the one for snes < 1298739780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: good point, the Japanese game was NES, presumably? < 1298739783 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuh < 1298739795 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The FF3 for SNES is FF6. < 1298739799 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1298739800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, what the Americans call Final Fantasy III is actually Final Fantasy VI < 1298739803 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, that's a very broad question :P < 1298739809 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is < 1298739812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's the name it's given nowadays in remakes, at least in the UK < 1298739818 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have very different battle systems < 1298739833 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Secret of Mana is more like the Zelda series' battle system. < 1298739835 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in how it integrates with the non-battle world for example < 1298739855 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrono Trigger just uses the scenery, but is otherwise a normal JRPG battle system. < 1298739858 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, indeed, it doesn't have a separate battle mode as such. That is one main difference. < 1298739862 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FF6 is a classic JRPG battle system. < 1298739863 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite < 1298739896 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, considering personal preference, how would you rank these battle systems? < 1298739939 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same question goes to ais523 if he played the games < 1298739966 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, from my completely uninformed perspective, Zelda. < 1298739980 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say this because I detest management of any sort. < 1298739984 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, zelda was not involved here? < 1298739989 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1298740003 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Secret of Mana is more like the Zelda series' battle system. < 1298740008 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes < 1298740019 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but it is not relevant in ranking which one you prefer < 1298740084 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me it is (best battle system to worst): secret of mana, chrono trigger, ff6 < 1298740119 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waits for Gregor and ais523 to answer
< 1298740142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: err, I haven't played any of the games in question < 1298740148 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah okay < 1298740152 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then, Gregor < 1298740157 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember a ton about any of them, but i like the menu based systems best < 1298740160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I've seen other people play some of Chrono Trigger and of FF6, it didn't give a good feel for how the battle system worked < 1298740171 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the active ones have novelty value, but i don't like turning my rpgs into an attempt at a brawler < 1298740194 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though i kind of enjoyed the tales series's fighter-like battle systtem < 1298740212 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, I wouldn't call secret of mana that active. It is similar to zelda. But using some sort of circular wheel style menu for spells iirc < 1298740213 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Secret of Mana is multi-player capable which is a plus, and that possibility /is/ related to the battle system. < 1298740226 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ah, could be < 1298740226 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i don't remember SoM very well < 1298740232 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but don't you still have to "run up and whack stuff"? < 1298740233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Pokémon is multiplayer capable too, and it uses a menu-based battle system < 1298740234 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Could be? Is :P < 1298740234 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the part that annoys me < 1298740246 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, right < 1298740262 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hitboxing and all that is fairly crude and you basically have no real chance of getting particularly good at making use of the character control for dodging and stuff < 1298740266 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, I like being able to retreat from stuff freely and so on < 1298740276 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except in situations where it's a fundamental part of playing < 1298740284 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, it allows a lot more tactics than the fixed style of classical JRPG < 1298740285 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like boss fights, which can be like dumbed down shmups < 1298740307 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's really my complaint; i don't recall ever playing a game with a system like that where it felt particularly tactical < 1298740315 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was more just "run around and try not to get hit" < 1298740326 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :positioning didn't matter a great deal < 1298740327 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course the AI for the PCs you are not controlling atm in secret of mana was pretty dumb < 1298740341 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which brings it down to timing and attack selection < 1298740345 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is accomplished with menu systems < 1298740348 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1298740373 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :avoiding enemies in the environment, well, i'll give you that one, but it's usually either trivial or impossible < 1298740383 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much variety there, just a stylistic choice < 1298740404 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, hm. Also lets you escape even if they notice for slow ones < 1298740408 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i do enjoy being able to choose not to have to screw around with fights constantly, but many games offer you things that let you do that < 1298740426 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moogle charm, for example, in ff6 which was one of the original games selected < 1298740432 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever it's called < 1298740440 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what was that one now again < 1298740464 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, if i felt like it wasn't a poor mix of shmup, brawler, and rpg, i'd like it more < 1298740465 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1298740470 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, thing that annoyed me with ff6 was how you had like 17782367 chars and like 6 in your party and you had to leave most on some airship < 1298740471 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't particularly mind it < 1298740479 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why so many!? < 1298740479 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, well < 1298740488 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not make it like 8 or so then < 1298740490 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ff6 is nothing < 1298740495 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are talking about size of cast < 1298740500 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, yes indeed < 1298740501 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget the name, but there was some game with like hundreds < 1298740512 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, that's just insane < 1298740523 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nature of final fantasy games has enemies in greater numbers than you < 1298740528 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and more powerful < 1298740535 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have the intelligence and a wider variety of skills and strategy < 1298740537 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, there is no way you can level up and use the skills of all those chars < 1298740545 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :giving you like 20 PCs at once is a little silly < 1298740554 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so games don't really do that < 1298740561 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, hm < 1298740565 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the reason for a fairly large cast is to provide characters that appeal to different people < 1298740569 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not everyone likes the same party < 1298740585 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they might like different characters for story reasons, skill reasons, appearance reasons, whatever < 1298740589 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they can select the ones they like < 1298740599 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the airship'd members are just the ones they don't like ;) < 1298740613 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, in general I like something like: one excellent fighter, one or two excellent spell casters, the remaining ones generalists < 1298740615 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unless you're anal retentive like me, many people don't bother to try and keep all party members the same level etc. < 1298740640 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but some people like magic a lot, or some people like skull bashers a lot, or some people like LOL RANDOM < 1298740651 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, I do bother until I give up < 1298740656 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people like to hone their party into an efficient fighting force < 1298740661 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people just like to screw around < 1298740663 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, anyway there is a game with hundreds as you mentioned < 1298740666 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, it is called pokemon < 1298740684 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some people devise ridiculous challenges for themselves such as average party level 6 completion of ff6 < 1298740684 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol. < 1298740701 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah, the extra PCs give some variety and choice to suit different people < 1298740709 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, pokemon wasn't what i was thinking of < 1298740712 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme see if i can figure it out < 1298740738 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, it does have hundreds of chars though < 1298740809 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suikoden maybe < 1298740824 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of that < 1298740832 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_characters_in_Suikoden_V < 1298740837 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> WORDS < 1298740839 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor `WORDS' < 1298740860 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :108 playable characters < 1298740865 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, wow < 1298740874 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this may not be what i was thinking of though < 1298740891 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, you might as well give up and let your player roll his own char at that point < 1298740901 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, like in NWN and similar < 1298740903 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or nethack < 1298740913 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except you can't roll backstory and the like < 1298740920 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, hm true < 1298740938 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and while some people are of the kind that like to flesh out their characters like that < 1298740942 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :others just like to view the story < 1298740945 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, how many cds to fit the backstory of 108 chars though < 1298740969 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not very many bytes to throw in some dialogue and script programming < 1298740981 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, I was being sarcastic :P < 1298740988 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o well < 1298741046 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1298741069 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sgeo found out about MS Bob. Read log for hilarious comments. < 1298741089 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, if you would rate the story of the games this discussion began about, how would you rate them? < 1298741092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I always read the log but you have managed to instill a deadly fear for doing so today. < 1298741115 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwut: Death Spank: Stars of Virtue < 1298741115 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! < 1298741123 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, what < 1298741127 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a game < 1298741128 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that exists < 1298741130 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1298741132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deathspank is ron gilbert! < 1298741134 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, what sort of game? < 1298741137 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an rpg < 1298741137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(creator of monkey island) < 1298741139 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess < 1298741149 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, I meant... age rating < 1298741159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not an, uh, adult game X-D < 1298741165 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, *phew* < 1298741165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I assume. < 1298741166 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1298741168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not actually played it. < 1298741172 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not adult < 1298741177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But point is, it's Ron Gilbert and therefore perfect. < 1298741190 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google is unhelpful < 1298741192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anyway you are clearly bullshitting, I highly doubt Sgeo didn't know what ms bob was before :P < 1298741193 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, re: stories, while i have played all of them, it's been a long time and i tended not to play any of them to completion (though i think i've beat a fair number) < 1298741194 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and returns something else < 1298741201 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I do NOT wish to paste < 1298741202 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I had a vague idea < 1298741203 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ff6 is one of my faves just because of kefka < 1298741204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeathSpank < 1298741211 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to get the mindbleach
< 1298741216 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, how can you not love an evil clown guy that gets his kicks by breaking the world? < 1298741227 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just don't google for "Death Spank: Stars of Virtue" without quotes < 1298741237 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general i don't actually pay much heed to the "plot" of CRPGs though < 1298741244 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrono trigger is certainly well loved < 1298741250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i only get relevant links < 1298741253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol swedes < 1298741263 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't and I'm not logged into gmail < 1298741301 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : chrono trigger is certainly well loved <-- indeed. I am replaying it atm. < 1298741308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:57:54 screw it. Lets try statically linked < 1298741312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :statically linking to qt < 1298741314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brilliant < 1298741325 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it turned out it used libdl < 1298741330 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so impossible anyway < 1298741331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i saw < 1298741333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not true < 1298741337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can statically link libdl i believe < 1298741348 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I believe if you use -static it will break though < 1298741352 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was my first plan < 1298741357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:45:24 vorpal: i prefer platformers with a kick-ass story < 1298741357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:45:28 like psychonauts < 1298741360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tim schafer! < 1298741365 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libdl works just fine statically on glibc/Linux < 1298741375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my role here is basically to point out when games were made by old kick-ass adventure game guys < 1298741376 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, huh. Okay < 1298741397 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In general the .so's you dlopen in have to be statically linked too. < 1298741406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Schafer = Full Throttle, Grim Fandango, co-designer of MI1, MI2, Day of the Tentacle) < 1298741435 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, can .so be statically linked? < 1298741440 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Of course. < 1298741449 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh true < 1298741456 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld.so has to be < 1298741476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:42:31 * Sgeo wants to try Microsoft Bob < 1298741477 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld.so is a special case by any standards, but still :P < 1298741477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:45:56 Phantom_Hoover, what do you think about Microsoft Bob? < 1298741477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:46:08 "XD". < 1298741477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:46:51 Why? < 1298741477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:48:21 I was thinking about why I got into Creatures, I thought about Microsoft Agent, wikied, discovered that Microsoft Bob was a predecessor of sorts < 1298741478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:48:44 And it sounds fun. And a bit like this old Greetings Workshop program I used to have and love < 1298741481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fudsghdfgdf < 1298741483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal < 1298741485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why couldn't you be lying < 1298741486 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so i just skimmed the entire list of rpg series on rpgamer < 1298741487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1298741491 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suikoden must be the one i was thinking of < 1298741492 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1298741494 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't do that. < 1298741497 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think any other game has such a dense cast < 1298741499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i swear to god, this is conclusive proof that sgeo has been getting stupider since 2007 < 1298741504 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i could be mistaken < 1298741506 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: Suikoden was awesome < 1298741510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is close to rock bottom < 1298741528 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, isn't Microsoft Agent something to do with the office assistant thingy? < 1298741535 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, yes < 1298741543 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does that involve Creatures? < 1298741547 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it < 1298741551 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, the word "agent" < 1298741553 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last time i actively played rpgs was on an emulator years ago < 1298741554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't, read his sentence again < 1298741560 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where i tried various PSX rpgs that i rather liked < 1298741560 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.... < 1298741565 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and eventually they crashed my computer < 1298741577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSX emulation is terrible < 1298741583 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't until later that i determined that it was the fucking silicon image sata controller corrupting my disk images < 1298741595 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, i have a lot of interrupted forays that got reasonably far into various games < 1298741604 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general my long term sticktoitiveness is pretty poor though < 1298741638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:37:00 3DNA is basically a 3D Microsoft Bob < 1298741639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:37:05 I once liked 3DNA < 1298741643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffff < 1298741649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is painful. < 1298741653 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, n64 never had as good RPGs as snes as far as I remember? < 1298741667 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zelda was of course awesome, but that is no RPG < 1298741669 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never had an n64 < 1298741679 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rpgs kinda went from snes to playstation < 1298741684 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, I never did either. < 1298741688 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though i think nintendo got some franchises back < 1298741688 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N64 never had an awesome anything and all the N64 Zelda games suck foot. < 1298741692 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, WHYYYYYY < 1298741693 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least some contributions < 1298741694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Mario? < 1298741697 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, HERETIC < 1298741702 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heretic was a computer game? < 1298741707 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, PC < 1298741708 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there was paper mario < 1298741712 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was quite a fun rpg < 1298741714 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that maybe got a shitty console adaptation < 1298741716 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I got bored because 3DNA was a single-person thing < 1298741729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's not like I used it as my desktop regularly < 1298741732 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just had fun < 1298741733 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, Super Mario 64 is tolerable. < 1298741734 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a toy < 1298741738 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, Paper Mario! < 1298741742 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not as good as SMW, 3D platformers in general aren't a good idea. < 1298741742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:42:22 Also related! PostrgreSQL time input accept the string "allballs" as representing the UTC midnight. < 1298741742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:42:32 Since 00:00:00 is all balls. < 1298741742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... yes. < 1298741744 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never played Paper Mario :P < 1298741749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Have you ever played Super Mario Galaxy? < 1298741753 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, decent but not brilliant RPG < 1298741753 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i'm all for sprite based 2d platformers < 1298741756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone who thinks 3D platformers suck has to play Galaxy. < 1298741759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They will immediately repent. < 1298741764 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 Galaxy. < 1298741766 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was under the impression that my mom would find it useful though < 1298741767 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: Have you ever played Super Mario Galaxy? <-- it was not N64 though < 1298741771 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I haven't played any games on any system newer than the original Playstation :P < 1298741775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But not as good as SMW, 3D platformers in general aren't a good idea. < 1298741777 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except a rare few at friends house. < 1298741777 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, *3DNA"???? < 1298741777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see second half of sentence < 1298741784 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as Muscle March, greatest game ever. < 1298741785 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/"/*/ < 1298741785 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor, haha, i'm in the same category as you :( < 1298741787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yah, you need to play Galaxy. < 1298741791 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are so many good rpgs to be played too < 1298741795 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the time investment! < 1298741801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It is seriously the best. < 1298741801 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, http://www.3dna.net/ < 1298741809 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I HAVE SEEN IT < 1298741812 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IS AWFUL < 1298741827 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1298741835 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To use for regular computer use, sure. Although I don't think that occured to me when I tried to set it up for my mom < 1298741837 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because navigating a 3d environment is so much more EFFICIENT than double clicking icons < 1298741844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we just < 1298741845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop feeding sgeo < 1298741846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forever < 1298741850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1298741866 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : To use for regular computer use, sure. Although I don't think that occured to me when I tried to set it up for my mom <-- poor her < 1298741868 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right so you know what else i discovered < 1298741869 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, this was a while ago, obviously < 1298741875 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get some of Dat JRPG Vibe just from watching anime < 1298741881 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you don't have to grind for items at all! < 1298741882 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1298741900 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, har har < 1298741904 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my biggest complaint about many rpgs, particularly final fantasy < 1298741918 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that they seem made so that the only way you can really get the most out of them is to buy strategy guides and the like < 1298741929 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best stuff isn't just obtuse it's downright secret sometimes < 1298741930 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, I actually like the RPG bit of it. Not really in FF6. but in games like Chrono Trigger yes < 1298741945 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"beat the game in this amount of time, have this character as your main guy in this one scene and that's your only shot at getting his ultimate weapon" < 1298741947 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..yeah, wtf. < 1298741958 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, not beat, but progress through < 1298741958 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, they did that in FF6? < 1298741962 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 i believe < 1298741965 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for barrett's < 1298741967 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, wow < 1298741975 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, never played 7 < 1298741975 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the trend continues throughout < 1298741985 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are lots of things where you can't just work it out by being smart or getting clues < 1298741995 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they tend to be the things you would enjoy the most < 1298741997 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, anyway you can google to find the info < 1298741999 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :badass weapons and spells, etc. < 1298742003 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but why should i have to? < 1298742012 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, better than paying < 1298742015 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my point isn't that i can find the info, it's that i can't discover it < 1298742027 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not without a ridiculous amount of work in many cases < 1298742036 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1298742051 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i already play most of these games from a rather completionist point of view < 1298742060 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel wrong if i go through a dungeon and don't test every wall ;) < 1298742070 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some final fantasy games, including 6, are guilty also of < 1298742079 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, well duh. That is common for a nethack player too :P < 1298742079 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"don't get this specific chest, and when you come back later it's something better" < 1298742090 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of BS is that? < 1298742110 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how are you supposed to discover something like thatt on your own, even after having played the game and therefore knowing which areas you can come back to? < 1298742111 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, chrono trigger has that though! But it is logical there. You get something from the chest in the future first and then from the old period in time < 1298742121 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1298742127 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that i can forgive a little < 1298742131 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, getting it from the old period first would remove it from the future < 1298742132 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they KNOW that players are like GIMME GIMME :P < 1298742147 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, it's a game about some time travelin so sure < 1298742151 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, it is consistent too over a handful of places < 1298742161 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is acceptable too < 1298742167 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still don't like it that much though < 1298742172 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, mostly those black locked chests you know < 1298742188 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this tendency really annoyed me with Cave Story actually < 1298742192 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is an otherwise wonderful game < 1298742197 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, I haven't played that < 1298742199 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, can we agree that AS A TOY TO PLAY WITH OCCASIONALLY, 3DNA is not evil? < 1298742199 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it about? < 1298742207 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only way to get the "good ending" is basically to skip something that is useful and obvious < 1298742215 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, to be able to attempt to get the good ending ;p < 1298742220 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a doujin platformer < 1298742231 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cute and entertaining and also quite difficult if you go for hell mode < 1298742232 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doujin? < 1298742239 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i guess indie? < 1298742243 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, nethack hard? < 1298742250 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nethack isn't a platformer < 1298742252 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apples and oranges < 1298742262 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, fair enough. Nintendo hard then? < 1298742277 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm no game whiz, but when you make it to hell, let's say that it's comparable in difficulty to IWBTG without as many cheap tricks < 1298742301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IWBTG is all about the cheap tricks, ofc, they're what makes it interesting < 1298742307 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, right < 1298742317 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, anyway you can compare between genres by comparing percentage of started games that were won :P < 1298742328 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's the thing < 1298742333 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you have a platformer that you can save in < 1298742337 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't "start" many games < 1298742341 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1298742349 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, i'll link you a video < 1298742357 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to compare to a game that don't allow you to go back to previous saves < 1298742364 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwkquZV-nkY < 1298742366 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a speed run though < 1298742369 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comparing df and nh would be easier < 1298742378 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, tool-assisted? < 1298742382 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the record, i've made it to the end boss, but i got sidetracked by work and never came back < 1298742388 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i haven't technically beaten the game ;p < 1298742397 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't appear to be TAS < 1298742400 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not an emulated game < 1298742402 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a PC game < 1298742440 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it is a really nice game and you should try it if you like platformers at all < 1298742442 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is an english patch < 1298742481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: cave story is good < 1298742491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't completed it but it's really nice < 1298742496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful graphical and musical style < 1298742500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that hard i wouldn't say < 1298742507 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i completed two of three endings < 1298742513 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't get particularly hard unless you want the best ending < 1298742526 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mainly because of the level i linked in that video < 1298742535 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you don't even SEE unless you do the aforementioned crap about skipping an obvious useful item < 1298742541 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND do a couple tricks < 1298742553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks to be only a speedrun of one level < 1298742559 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct < 1298742561 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last level < 1298742571 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what i was talking about < 1298742580 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah if you like platformers it look fun < 1298742630 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol @ ultratapping < 1298742666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, it has a plot, if you care so much about that. :p < 1298742681 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too haha < 1298742692 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a cute robot girl! < 1298742693 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1298742695 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, good but I prefer the depth of the story when interacting with NPCs in a well written RPG < 1298742713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It has tons of NPCs to interact with. :p < 1298742723 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and it's a platformer? really? huh < 1298742724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say it's even a platformer/RPG hybrid. < 1298742731 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sounds interesting < 1298742735 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a whole lot of RPG to it, but yeah < 1298742738 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you mean hybrid like super mario rpg? < 1298742739 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more like a 'metroid rpg' < 1298742746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not that hybrid. < 1298742747 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you get upgrades to your life and weaponry < 1298742751 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right < 1298742752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey cool, there's a Linux port. < 1298742754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://shii.org/pixel/linuxdoukutsu-1.01.tar.bz2 < 1298742762 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but it is very strange for a snes game, don't you agree? < 1298742767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I haven't played it. < 1298742777 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah... It is isomeric < 1298742786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your experience with the Linux port is, unfortunately, the same as mine. It's not your netbook at fault; the Linux port doesn't seem to be very well optimized. I found Wine to be the way to go as well." < 1298742791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://shii.org/pixel/cavestory.zip then. :p < 1298742794 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that alone makes it strange for a snes era platform-rpg hybrid < 1298742807 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not an snes game < 1298742814 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a fairly recent PC game < 1298742818 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, I didn't say that < 1298742824 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, I said that about super mario rpg < 1298742827 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1298742845 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe later. Playing chrono trigger atm < 1298742862 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, interacting with npcs eh... maybe another vote for suikoden ;) < 1298742870 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :npcs / pcs / whatever < 1298742876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always loved the author's description: < 1298742877 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like it should have a lot of breadth at least < 1298742877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Cave Story is a jumping-and-shooting action game. < 1298742877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explore the caves until you reach the ending. < 1298742877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also save your game and continue from where you left off." < 1298742877 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, lots of npcs too? < 1298742887 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol elliott < 1298742888 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1298742889 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is zzo behind it+ < 1298742894 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/+/?/ < 1298742894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, the Japs are. < 1298742898 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i was thinking more like pcs = "in depth npcs" < 1298742898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, one Jap. < 1298742901 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I meant the last line! < 1298742909 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, hm < 1298742910 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can interact with them moreso than you could npcs in normal console rpgs < 1298742936 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, well pc to me, means one you can have in your party and can control in battle and so on < 1298742945 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might also enjoy Legend of the Galactic Heroes, which is an anime series but is epic and awesome ;) < 1298742955 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah, suikoden is the one with like a hundred PCs < 1298742957 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, mhm < 1298742958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to continue on worriedly with the logs < 1298742974 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it gets better after. Less sgeo. < 1298742974 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the point of it is that each of them is a different 'character' and they have their own plot situations and stuff, i think < 1298742976 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: i haven't played it < 1298742982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: FINALLY YOU ARE HERE < 1298742983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus < 1298742985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :been waiting < 1298742986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N fucking days < 1298743300 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1298743300 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1298743904 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://notalwaysright.com/her-banking-days-are-numbered/10397 this is a validation failure < 1298744544 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the system successfully failed to recognize an invalid account number :D < 1298744583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1298744590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<__moz> As to the 'phone warning, I was surprised to find that it wasn't solely due to people using a microwave to dry their 'phones out after getting them wet. Some people genuinely believe that a microwave could recharge the battery, and at least one of those has discovered that a 'phone doesn't work so well once you let the (thick black) magic smoke out. < 1298744606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a TDWTF quote that reminded me of Sgeo, or more specifically the sort of people he seems to be surrounded with < 1298744712 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders a battery charger that could work like that. Certainly it's possible with other frequencies on the EM spectrum (solar panels)
< 1298744731 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plenty off stuff is charged through induction < 1298744773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and now you're REALLY HERE < 1298744774 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. waterproof electric toothbrushes < 1298744794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed, although I might disappear a bit in a while < 1298744799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have written an Underload interpreter smarter than derlo. That optimises Church numerals. < 1298744803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to avoid someone at work, so I was turning up only when necessary < 1298744809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yay, it had to be done eventually < 1298744836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Me and oerjan had agreed that if you responded to that question with "oh, I wrote one of those too, but never told anyone about it", you would be banned. :P < 1298744840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NARROWLY AVOIDED < 1298744858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway it's written in Haskell but I'm half rewriting it in C every now and then. < 1298744870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, there are limits to my Underload-related prescience < 1298744881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think derlo is probably _faster_ for most programs, but anything involving heavy use of Church numerals will probably do okay. < 1298744887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it does addition. I'm not sure it handles addition. < 1298744896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it does use oerjan's insanely overcomplicated algorithm for detecting Church numeral literals. < 1298744915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here's the code if you want to take a peek: http://sprunge.us/YGiM < 1298744934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: including the best line ever < 1298744936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : where eq = I# (reallyUnsafePtrEquality# p q) == 1 < 1298744953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reallyUnsafePtrEquality# < 1298744967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that do something like, um, compare pointers in the underlying representation of its arguments? < 1298744967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reallyUnsafePtrEquality# :: a -> a -> Int# < 1298744971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1298744980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And returns an unboxed int. < 1298744988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I then box with I#, and compare to 1. < 1298745011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: In fact I think it's even possible that (reallyUnsafePtrEquality# x x) is 0#. < 1298745015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it basically returns false if two things are different, and an unspecified value if the things are the same < 1298745015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With GHC, I mean. < 1298745032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It returns either 0# or 1#. < 1298745040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unspecified 0# or 1#, then < 1298745043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If it returns 1#, the two things are the same. < 1298745050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, anything is possible. < 1298745058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's what I said just in reverse < 1298745059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : p == q = eq || p' == q' < 1298745059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : where eq = I# (reallyUnsafePtrEquality# p q) == 1 < 1298745059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Quote p' = toQ p < 1298745061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Quote q' = toQ q < 1298745066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just do it because toQ is sloooow. < 1298745071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :toQ :: Obj -> Obj < 1298745071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :toQ (Church _ p) = p < 1298745071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :toQ (Catn p q) = Quote (xs++ys) where Quote xs = toQ p; Quote ys = toQ q < 1298745071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :toQ (Rept n p) = Quote $ concat (genericReplicate n p') where Quote p' = toQ p < 1298745073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :toQ x = x < 1298745081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, that's broken < 1298745083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be = toQ p < 1298745099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I also wrote an Underload test suite, just because nobody gets * right < 1298745114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and oerjan has been working on minimisation like usual < 1298745131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to go for a while, but I'll stay connected and be back in a while < 1298745144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1298745144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://sprunge.us/fLWW < 1298745147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the link to burden.ul FWIW < 1298745191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: For when you get back, note that the channel's topic is now officially http://esolangs.org/wiki/CRTL. < 1298745330 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :today i have become less convinced that :()^ isn't TC. < 1298745367 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if it is it looks tricky to achieve < 1298745395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh dear < 1298745438 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically i think it's somewhat possible a self-deleting representation like the one for :()^~ could be made to work < 1298745638 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if so the two-counter minsky machine for :()^! could be ported < 1298745725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: maybe each quotation looks at the TOS and uses that to decide whether to delete itself or to execute? < 1298745752 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it looks like representing PQ would be tricky. i had a representation idea that would work simply for PQ but which cannot possibly work for quotes < 1298745761 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOS? < 1298745761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pq? < 1298745765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :top of stack < 1298745775 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a concatenation of two terms < 1298745802 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you know how to represent each of them, how do you represent their concatenation < 1298745839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes, ats does have compile-time error support for that. < 1298745866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully ats has way too much type theory for pikhq to ever udnerstand it. < 1298745867 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, off-by-ones in general, or that specific case of an off-by-one? < 1298745907 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, when you say that, don't you usually mean me? < 1298745934 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at the TOS is pretty obvious. the problem with :()^ is how to _get_ something you choose to be on the top of stack when you run the quotation. < 1298745975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point :D < 1298745976 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's one thing you can do, :^ runs the quotation with a copy of itself on top of stack < 1298745977 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover, can we agree that AS A TOY TO PLAY WITH OCCASIONALLY, 3DNA is not evil < 1298745978 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1298745982 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1298745994 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298745998 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Effing tabs. < 1298746002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, it uses strong ai to detect every off-by-one possible. < 1298746005 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, THE CONCEPT IS FUNDAMENTALLY EVIL < 1298746184 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1298746424 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, even Bonzi Buddy can be a fun toy if isolated to where it can't harm anything < 1298746450 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, are you incapable of hating crap < 1298746452 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*? < 1298746491 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't there something I despised once? < 1298746498 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forget the name... < 1298746512 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Progress? < 1298746518 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Change? < 1298746576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Sgeo even supported the Asylum project, which was designed to "make building software from svn easier". The genius concept behind this was to take a normal shell script, and wrap it in fake xml , , ..., because the project lead had no idea how to read lines sequentially from a file. < 1298746593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, so he posted that to the Daily WTF, but he still got to the point of joining the IRC channel and volunteering to help.) < 1298746603 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1298746618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1298746738 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm afraid you have a defective hate lobe. < 1298746744 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're going to have to operate. < 1298746774 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not psychic! How was I supposed to know that the person would be an idiot! < 1298746807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The entire concept was stupid! < 1298746871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo has a defective brain lobe. < 1298746882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I said, he's been getting progressively stupider over the period of many slow years. < 1298746907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: I have, in fact, tried "being nice" in the past, to little success.) < 1298746927 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Asylum wasn't recent < 1298746977 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I joined up because someone from Circe did, I think! < 1298747448 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this Asylum thing looks ... useful < 1298747472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it's like a shell script but useless! < 1298747587 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print "\nhere comes uncompressing of the source this takes about 1 minute and 10 seconds. Please be patient" < 1298747629 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, you found the Asylum source? < 1298747633 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme see, I'm nostalgic < 1298747637 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(No I'm not) < 1298747653 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://asylum.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/asylum/trunk/ < 1298747674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: :-D < 1298747676 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this wasn't xml though, just python < 1298747702 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I was told we would need to make an XML parser < 1298747744 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course! python is not enough to poorly emulate shell scripts, you need an XML parser too < 1298747774 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Special thanks to: The people at #python at irc.freenode.net for their advice" < 1298747795 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too bad their advice never included "Just stop. Right now." < 1298747808 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, #python was involved? that would explain a lot of how bad it turned out < 1298747842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone use python as a sh replacement? < 1298747846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like people do with perl sometimes? < 1298747855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1298747859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1298747871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, random thought: rafb.net/p/ getting deleted has affected me more than geocities < 1298747876 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Well the purpose of this script is to build Songbirds svn source just by running this script. Including downloading and doing all the steps that are needed to get it installed < 1298747877 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 and working on your linux box." < 1298747885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously dude, shut down your IMMENSELY POPULAR pastebin if you want to but don't delete all the damn pastes < 1298747901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly rafb used to delete pastes after one day by default iirc which is terrible too :/ < 1298747904 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, what the hell was the point of Asylum? < 1298747908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: NOBODY KNOWS. < 1298747912 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We are working on making asylum work for all svn open source projects. instead of just python.... < 1298747912 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :41 It should happen sometime soon." < 1298747925 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I think they meant Songbird there < 1298747956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't expect pastebin pastes to persist < 1298747958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they don't < 1298747968 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, where's the Daily WTF post for it? < 1298747977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ... stop being Vorpal < 1298747986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming omniscience) < 1298748001 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I never mentioned "Asylum" in the post < 1298748005 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/p/4361/99979.aspx < 1298748005 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I did try Googling it, but it's hard to pin down < 1298748008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, but I have put plenty of code up on a pastebin, lost the code carelessly, and then have been unable to retrieve it later :) < 1298748014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ask Sgeo, duh; he's the one who posted it < 1298748025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't see why pastebin pastes _shouldn't_ persist, anyway < 1298748027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, someone actually edited the sandbox < 1298748048 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, YES OK < 1298748052 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which sandbox? < 1298748056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, err, zzo ...found... your language < 1298748056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esolang's < 1298748060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rare that that one's changed < 1298748063 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1298748064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case you haven't checked the talk page lately. < 1298748072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: he found it in-channel first < 1298748077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1298748081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, have you been logreading? < 1298748084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, in realtime? < 1298748085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's interesting to see the zzo spin on things < 1298748088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, I was here at the time < 1298748091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1298748122 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it can be, but unfortunately the incessant "USE CWEB" and "PLAY MY GAMES" makes it more worthwhile just to ignore him. < 1298748150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't just ignore zzo38! you'd lose a vital part of Internet culture! < 1298748168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seriously, you can go to a random channel and mention zzo38 and there are people who have heard of him) < 1298748175 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am on here right now, in case you have questions that I would need to answer, and whatever < 1298748199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (seriously, you can go to a random channel and mention zzo38 and there are people who have heard of him) < 1298748202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tempted to try this < 1298748213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think it may just be cognitive bias on your part, ais523 :P < 1298748217 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 is world-famous. < 1298748221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. you only enter channels that are likely to have heard of zzo38) < 1298748231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, perhaps < 1298748244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it was quite a large channel < 1298748247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries it in #esoteric-minecraft
< 1298748255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wasn't it #nethack? i think you said that < 1298748263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : HAS ANYONE HEAR HEARD OF ZZO38 < 1298748263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : NOPE < 1298748264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn < 1298748266 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try it, I do not know how well it is going to work but you can try, and even write a report if you want to about the statistics you get from it. < 1298748270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which a) increases the chance that someone's there who's heard of him, b) increases the chance that someone's there who has his name on highlight < 1298748282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also, #tasvideos < 1298748291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't have a large overlap with #esoteric (I think just me and Ilari) < 1298748360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well zzo38 does ZZT stuff doesn't he? < 1298748364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd expect an overlap with that and TASing < 1298748372 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I have done ZZT stuff. < 1298748381 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also MegaZeux. < 1298748389 0 :vovten!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1298748397 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks like it's pronounced megasucks < 1298748431 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Not quite. < 1298748468 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I wrote a note in the [[Talk:Checkout]] page, can you read this note please? < 1298748480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I read it, I just couldn't think of anything to say in response < 1298748507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1298748521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here's a factoid you'll like: Template Haskell, a macro system for Haskell, does gensym with a monad < 1298748525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still can't, in fact < 1298748557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I apologise for my lack of imagination < 1298748566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, monads are pretty basic in Haskell < 1298748592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just amusing to think of gensym as referentially transparent and therefore requiring a monad < 1298748629 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. Currently it does not actually have the list of commands and their numbers, but do you think what I wrote is sufficient? Is there anything wrong with it? If I ever write a emulator I would make it use the binary format as input, probably. < 1298748664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more that I didn't think of the concept of using a binary format with Checkout at all < 1298748674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it makes sense that individual emulators, and individual GPUs, would have one < 1298748709 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes the GPU has its own binary format. This binary format I made is just a kind of intermediate binary format. < 1298748727 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is possible to convert between the standard Checkout text format and this binary format. < 1298748754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of using /7 for the preprocessor, btw, but it wouldn't really fit < 1298748767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might use /- to make it clear that it's completely different from actual execution < 1298748776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the preprocessor isn't designed yet, but one is obviously necessary) < 1298748849 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes you are right. However, the /7 in the binary format is just used to specify how it is encoded, when converted to text format the /7 is not actually there. < 1298748867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember TkTech who was in here a while ago? < 1298748897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1298748902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it was after PH incredibly-transparently impersonated Notch in #minecraft, got banned, and TkTech got an IRCop friend to abuse his position of power to figure out what channels PH was in < 1298748903 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's in response to elliott) < 1298748912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, obviously, didn't exactly endear him to us < 1298748918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would PH do that? < 1298748941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems sufficiently against Freenode rules that ircops would be allowed to get involved if they really wanted to regardless < 1298748949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Err, long story, but suffice to say that he didn't act even vaguely seriously and didn't even bother changing his ident, but got insanely worshipped anyway < 1298748956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Notch isn't a registered username < 1298748956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, presumably they might check if he was in here and impersonating, say, Chris Pressey or maybe Graue < 1298748974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it wasn't an "official" thing, though < 1298748989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We asked how the hell he found this place and he said he had links with ircop friends. < 1298749006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the upshot of this, that much of #minecraft is idiotic enough to believe an obvious troll is their glorious implementor? < 1298749019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, technically it should be ##minecraft if Notch isn't involved in it < 1298749022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed < 1298749046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes; what I was going to follow on with was that TkTech is now hilariously whois-stalking someone in #minecraft for no apparent reason whatsoever and being all accusatory, but if nobody here remembers him it's irrelevant < 1298749053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Vorpal eventually got him to go away by complaining loudly about his away-message script) < 1298749071 0 :Vonlebio!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1298749079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that works? < 1298749088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what, complaining? < 1298749095 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1298749103 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :complaining about away messages as a means to get someone to leave a channel < 1298749112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally it just gets them to turn their public away messages off < 1298749113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, he hadn't talked for most of the day, and then his away-nick script kicked in, and Vorpal just kept pinging him about how annoying it is until he got fed up and left < 1298749148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ooh, looks like TkTech is abusing his oper friends again to get dirt on this random guy in #minecraft < 1298749150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :classy! < 1298749153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^ // < 1298749197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps he's an undercover oper himself? < 1298749205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do those /exist/? < 1298749217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow TkTech is insane < 1298749229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know on Slashnet, there are people who come into channels you're in and spout random languages just as a result of you /whoising them < 1298749235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I haven't done it myself, but other people have) < 1298749240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, one person < 1298749244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's gone on to yelling at PH like he's the devil himself for calling the cyberstalking creepy < 1298749260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people would yell at the devil? it wouldn't seem very effective... < 1298749262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh, /whois notification? < 1298749292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You should add the codu logs to robots.txt. :p < 1298749297 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the server tells clients when their user is being whois:ed? < 1298749299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: he's an ircop, I assume he has some way of knowing he's being /whoised < 1298749302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah < 1298749306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps hooked into the ircd code < 1298749307 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *eh* < 1298749310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no way he could do it otherwise < 1298749316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They're a liability :P < 1298749375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm really tempted to bring up the fact that the channel should have two #s in front of its name, but he'd just snap back that so should #esoteric, and he's been here longer than me, and I'm evil scum, and shut up. < 1298749389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, does #esoteric have rights to the name? < 1298749401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: more than #minecraft < 1298749411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: especially since we vastly predate the policy; #minecraft definitely does not < 1298749426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could pretty easily put a message in an admin-change-only page in Esolang, which is pretty much Freenode's standard for verification < 1298749426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/PREFIX I like the part where this isn't esoteric at all < 1298749432 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We do represent the de facto body for esolang research and development. < 1298749436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure if esolangs.org would have rights to the name < 1298749440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be an argument for #esolang, not #esoteric < 1298749448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric.voxelperfect.net? < 1298749455 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I'm concerned this is the official IRC channel of the esoteric programming language community :D < 1298749459 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(whatever that is) < 1298749459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'll go register hello.sfoidjfoisdjfo.org < 1298749463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and register #hello < 1298749464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe the < 1298749467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or er < 1298749468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and" < 1298749473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe "microsoft-windows" < 1298749481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, I don't know if hello.org would give you rights to #hello either < 1298749496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you think python.com should have rights to #python? < 1298749506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes! < 1298749514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: python.com is rather different from python.org; some of my friends at University go there by mistake every now and then) < 1298749521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: this opinion is influenced by disliking Python and _hating_ #python) < 1298749534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((worst channel ever... ok apart from every efnet channel)) < 1298749561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : For anyone who still cares about Phantom_Hoover, here's the chatlog from his blatant trolling attempt < 1298749575 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TkTech> For anyone who still cares about Phantom_Hoover, here's the chatlog from his blatant trolling attempt < 1298749575 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : https://codu.org/projects/trac/esotericlogs/changeset/243%3A17617b496c58 < 1298749578 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's creepy. < 1298749590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, blatant trolling in #esoteric? < 1298749600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, the #minecraft stuff was mentioned in #esoteric when it happened < 1298749603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's happened, but it's not normally PH who's doing it < 1298749604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah < 1298749608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> TkTech: so how many kicks a day would you say you get on average from pointless, confusing cyberstalking and witchhunts? < 1298749609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : arithmetic mean would do, or median < 1298749613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ChanServ gives channel operator status to TkTech < 1298749613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* TkTech sets ban on *!*elliott@unaffiliated/elliott < 1298749613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* TkTech sets ban on *!*phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 < 1298749613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* You have been kicked from #minecraft by TkTech (elliott) < 1298749614 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, NORMALLY? < 1298749624 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/o/ < 1298749624 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         | < 1298749625 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        /| < 1298749636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, people do report trolling attempts in #esoteric sometimes < 1298749648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is strange because a) it's publicly logged, and b) I'm here and dislike that sort of thing < 1298749651 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I haven't trolled here... < 1298749655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I can't do much except yell incoherently < 1298749662 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFS, codu.org won't load. < 1298749666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:20 < elliott_> this channel should be ##minecraft < 1298749666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:20 -!- mode/#minecraft [+b *!*elliott@91.104.239.*] by TkTech < 1298749666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:20 -!- elliott_ was kicked from #minecraft by TkTech [elliott_] < 1298749666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it against freenode TOS to ban someone for reporting a policy violation? < 1298749666 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, FIX < 1298749670 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: in which case, it's true that trolls here aren't usually you, because they aren't ever you < 1298749673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just curious < 1298749679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't know, I'll checl < 1298749682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*check < 1298749695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, is Minecraft open source? < 1298749701 0 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric < 1298749708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1298749710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, that's a vaguely obvious policy vio < 1298749715 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ... uhh, E_WORKSFORME < 1298749715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, wrong network for the channel < 1298749719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: untrue, ##windows is accepted < 1298749724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just, it has to be a ##-channel < 1298749742 0 :Vonlebio!~vonlebio@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1298749748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :##windows makes sense, in that open source stuff often needs to know about Windows in order to work well < 1298749759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, mcmap is open source! < 1298749762 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and needs to know about Minecraft! < 1298749771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: olsner: < 1298749772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17 # So yeah This part will speed up the code to the point of being the same as compiled C or such. If you plan to use this script alot < 1298749772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18 # I recommend you downloading and installing it. You can grab it here http://psyco.sf.net. So install that shit and be done with :-p < 1298749773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--Asylum < 1298749779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's a reasonable argument < 1298749783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Psyco totally speeds up os.system. < 1298749786 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ChanServ gives channel operator status to redditalien < 1298749786 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* redditalien removes channel operator status from TkTech < 1298749792 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sense DRAMA < 1298749807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: how are you watching what's going on? as Vonlebio? < 1298749823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh this is ridiculous, tktech has gone utterly nuts < 1298749824 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yep. < 1298749854 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will notify as events unfold, if they actually do. < 1298749860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is getting wildly off-topic < 1298749866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do it in #esoteric-minecraft instead :P < 1298749895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there are quite a lot of rules for single-# channels, determining what's allowed, what's more allowed than others in case there's a conflict, and what definitely isn't < 1298749909 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: psyco will totally speed up make and tar when they're called from python < 1298749914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yes! < 1298749917 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1298749919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Groups on freenode which clearly do not have claim on a name, or whose activities are considered to be off-topic, will not generally be given administrative control over primary channels bearing a given name or name prefix." is the only rule that definitively says you can't get a single-# < 1298749937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think #minecraft is probably never going to be acted against because it's big < 1298749952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, because TkTech would just be all "I GOOGLED THE PERSON WHO SAID THAT AND THEY HAVE TIES TO PH AND ELLIOTT, EVIL PERSISTENT TROLLS" < 1298749953 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that's a double-whammy against us < 1298749956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"HERE ARE LOG LINKS:" < 1298749991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for #esoteric, we count as "Informal FOSS community projects and other projects producing broadly-licensed output.", I think; we can be beaten to the name by groups in that category who've used the name for longer (are there any longer-lasting esoteric programming groups?), or by " 1. Non-govermental organizations, standards organizations, government entities, formal news organizations, corporations, businesses and individuals with legally valid < 1298749993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :claims." < 1298750017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, cpressey adopted the term esoteric for esolangs < 1298750023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but esoteric was in use previously to mean some subtle but important detail < 1298750038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., "the working of the database flogger under conditions of intense load is somewhat esoteric; ..." < 1298750039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so IOW, we're allowed to use #esoteric, our "informal" name, so long as there isn't a legal claim to the name by someone else < 1298750043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1298750049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, at least, has "endorsed" this channel for the esolang purpose by being in here < 1298750051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, cpressey isn't, by himself, a community, although he's getting there < 1298750054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and e.g., "the working of the database flogger under conditions of intense load is somewhat esoteric; ..." < 1298750057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is just a generic term < 1298750060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you can't really "own" < 1298750067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, and which doesn't count as the name of a community < 1298750070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think as far as esoteric has a vaguely FOSS-related meaning as a community, we're it < 1298750083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, as long as we produce broadly-licensed output < 1298750095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which we do, with PD wiki edits and interpreters under a wide range of open source licenses < 1298750098 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can cat's eye technology claim the #esoteric name for us if required? < 1298750114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: cpressey has been in here since 2004 or so < 1298750115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on and off < 1298750120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is close enough to an endorsement as we'd need < 1298750142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think the claim actually goes to esoteric.sange.fi, the mailing list < 1298750147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming it exists enough to demand it < 1298750154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I disagree < 1298750159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being the oldest esolangs community with the word "esoteric" in its name < 1298750162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they stole the term from cpressey :) < 1298750165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it predates the wiki, doesn't it?) < 1298750170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not about the ownership of the name < 1298750171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, yes, by a long shot < 1298750171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1298750174 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that mailing list still alive? < 1298750177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I wonder where Befunge-97 and the like were designed? < 1298750179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about the length of time you've been in a community with that name < 1298750182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: heck no < 1298750191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it delivers a lot of spam, and every year or two, a "IS THIS THING STILL ON" message < 1298750199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who ran esoteric.sange.fi anyway? < 1298750202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the lists can't even be subscribed to thanks to bitrotting software < 1298750209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's a good question < 1298750209 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ok, good thing I'm not on it then :) < 1298750219 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1298750227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be fun to all suddenly revive it some point and act as if nothing had happened < 1298750247 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1298750276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :«Tra átekidáwakin» trakidawakin. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1298750282 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if it's been dead for years, I'd say that nothing *has* happened :) < 1298750288 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no acting required < 1298750306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1298750314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, as if it had been used all along < 1298750369 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could populate the archive with some fakes, reply to the threads, act confused when people complain about not having seen the e-mail you're replying to < 1298750383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just /whois'd TkTech; let's see if he enters here! < 1298750443 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not need worry about the Freenode policies too much for my own projects because I put the channels in my own computer (and I am the only one who can 'register' channels, meaning that they exist when empty, have topic message, and are logged). Although, I am still probably not violating Freenode policies, but I put it in my own computer anyways (one feature it has is automatic logging by server). < 1298750477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Freenode much care about what your own IRC server's rules are < 1298750546 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are correct, they probably don't care. What I meant is that even if I did make the channels on Freenode, it would not be against their policy. < 1298750592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you stop a channel appearing in /list? < 1298750596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+s hides it from whois < 1298750610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1298750611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+s does it < 1298750703 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELP CMODE tells you all the channel modes. < 1298750854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, on to more fun things < 1298750875 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relevant to what was being discussed a few minutes back: http://sprunge.us/VENB < 1298750879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've attempted to extend bitwise operations to the full Z < 1298750887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for a turing-complete OISC < 1298750888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on NAND < 1298750892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, ~x = -x - 1 < 1298750908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you going to do bitshift-equivalents? < 1298750914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND, OR and XOR are all pretty obvious, well, except (negative xor positive) < 1298750916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1298750919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :negative xor negative, that is < 1298750921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which turns into positive < 1298750928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because negative integers start with infinite 1s < 1298750937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: erm, you can just do them directly, can't you? < 1298750951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you said nand-based < 1298750957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that implied it didn't do anything else < 1298750968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, right < 1298750976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not entirely sure how it's going to work yet < 1298750977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking < 1298750981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IP is at location 0 < 1298750993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you load up memory space, which is just a finite list of Zs < 1298750993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a ZISC < 1298750997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the instruction is < 1298751003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a1,a2,a3) => [a1] = [a2] NAND [a3] < 1298751004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:= < 1298751006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have no idea if that even makes sense < 1298751010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so three literal addresses < 1298751017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1298751025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a1,a2,a3) => [a1] := -([a2] AND [a3]) - 1 < 1298751078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not sure NAND is so "universal" with infinite bits, though < 1298751089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I did mov < 1298751115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the BBC's technology program just explained that "OS X", as in the Apple operating system, is pronounced like the letter X not the number 10 because it's based on UNIX < 1298751122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure whether to believe them or not < 1298751126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tmp dst dst < 1298751127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :src dst dst < 1298751127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :src src src < 1298751127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dst tmp tmp < 1298751128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, that's mov < 1298751144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NAND's only universal if logical; bitwise NAND isn't < 1298751144 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say it's pronounced like the letter X because it's written with the letter X < 1298751147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's pronounced "Mac OS Ten" officially. < 1298751155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their reasoning is... bizarre < 1298751164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Apple always pronounces it Ten, at least. < 1298751166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roman numeral X. < 1298751170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently someone sent them an email complaining about their pronunciation < 1298751170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mac OS 8, Mac OS 9, Mac OS X. < 1298751187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's the explanation they gave for it < 1298751191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Knoll's Law of Media Accuracy: Everything you read in the newspapers is absolutely true except for that rare story of which you happen to have firsthand knowledge." < 1298751202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1298751267 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: please apply this OISC design to the 2-adic numbers < 1298751289 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-189-38.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298751320 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1298751350 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they used X because of both ten and because of UNIX. < 1298751350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: that's basically what i've done < 1298751357 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (-1) `xor` (-2) :: Integer < 1298751357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't 2-adic have ...111111110 = -2? < 1298751358 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1298751361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: haha, nice < 1298751390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 `xor` 2 < 1298751391 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraint: < 1298751391 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : `Data.Bits.Bits a' < 1298751391 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : a... < 1298751394 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: obviously < 1298751395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 `xor` 2 :: Integer < 1298751396 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 < 1298751401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right, just checking < 1298751413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1298751417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not _sure_ it can do negation < 1298751428 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it looked like you were using 2 < 1298751430 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not is -1-x < 1298751432 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2's complement < 1298751433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even increment < 1298751438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 523 `xor` -1 :: Integer < 1298751441 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1298751442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: well, yes, but on infinite bits < 1298751444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing, no? < 1298751449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: XORING IS VERY DIFFICULT < 1298751453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 523 `xor` (-1) :: Integer < 1298751454 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -524 < 1298751462 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, for one, there is no decimal :P < 1298751470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1298751482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1298751489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's x & (-x - 1)? < 1298751496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 523 `xor` (-524) :: Integer < 1298751499 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -1 < 1298751508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1298751509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's xor < 1298751510 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: um the bitwise operations can only do things that depend only on that bit positions in the arguments for which you are trying to calculate the bit position in the result. increment does not fulfil this property, nor does negation. < 1298751517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 523 .&. (-524) :: Integer < 1298751519 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1298751523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right, but you can do jumps < 1298751526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IP is at location 0 < 1298751581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and increment is just xor with carry :P < 1298751591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fsvo xor, carry < 1298751667 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck incrementing -1 < 1298751674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, who'd have thought removing concurrency from algol could be so difficult < 1298751676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: GOT A BETTER OISC? < 1298751682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote gah, who'd have thought removing concurrency from algol could be so difficult < 1298751711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the mathematical models of concurrent algol are simpler than those of non-concurrent algol, as they have fewer restrictions so there's less to say < 1298751725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, I was just addquoting because it's funny :) < 1298751745 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :319) gah, who'd have thought removing concurrency from algol could be so difficult < 1298751768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, it's vaguely annoying to be pinged a second time when HackEgo repeats the quote < 1298751779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first time is enough, the second time adds no new info but the number and HackEgo's reaction time < 1298751967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how Erlang's SDL bindings are... < 1298751979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : YOU MENTIONED A LANGUAGE, CLEARLY YOU ARE TURNING INTO ME < 1298751988 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... surely not better than SDL itself < 1298752001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I mean as far as threading goes. < 1298752007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erlang uses native threads, but it divides green threads between them. < 1298752021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So can the SDL bindings run asynchronously, so that network activity can still take place during expensive calls? < 1298752053 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the natural thing is to do something like dedicate a new native thread to SDL and an erlang wrapper process < 1298752064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: to add to the fun, SDL has its own threading library < 1298752074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: That's a strange definition of natural if you ask me. < 1298752087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly SDL calls aren't exactly _expensive_. < 1298752098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still, Minecraft could totally be less responsive if the proxying gets interrupted! < 1298752101 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erlang, you know, does things with threads and stuff < 1298752125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yes. Green threads. < 1298752138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: SDL does not use Erlang green threads. < 1298752141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SDL calls will therefore block. < 1298752146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Erlang can run threads on multiple cores. < 1298752146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you use Erlang + SDL for Minecraft? < 1298752149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But relying on that seems ridiculous. < 1298752164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm considering rewriting mcmap in Erlang to learn the language and also to make mcmap hacking a bit... nicer for me. < 1298752180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It uses SDL to... display the map. < 1298752193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And receives things from the client and server, and sends things to the client and server (it's a proxy). < 1298752198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And uses readline on the console. < 1298752259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Does that answer your question? :p < 1298752306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1298752313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reinventing the wheel for fun < 1298752320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that's what #esoteric is all about < 1298752321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:00:08 * ais523 finally got UMIX compiled < 1298752321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:00:31 the program at the heart of the 2006 ICFP < 1298752321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:00:47 it needs double-bootstrapping to compile, and you have to write the interpreter yourself < 1298752321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 2006 ICFP contest seems crazy, what with that 2D language inside. < 1298752326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That you have to write a ray tracer in. < 1298752338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it's more like a port than reinventing the wheel; mcmap is developed by fizzie and me < 1298752345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2006 was the best ICFP contest ever < 1298752356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 2007 the worst, no? < 1298752358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when's the 2010 contest, btw? < 1298752362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it tried too hard to be like the 2006 one and failed < 1298752365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, it's 2011 now < 1298752369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, right < 1298752372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when's the 2011 contest? < 1298752379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 2011 < 1298752383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible I'll have a paper submitted to the ICFP < 1298752385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a few months befoer ICFP" < 1298752387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*before < 1298752387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be fun if I did well in the contest too < 1298752397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: didn't you do the 2008 one? < 1298752404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1298752406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 2009; the one whose ISO we mirrored < 1298752408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how well did you do? < 1298752421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, I think it probably was 2008 < 1298752433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think I was eliminated in the fifth elimination round, or something like that < 1298752440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did quite well but wasn't up there with the best entries < 1298752451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how well did the tex one do? :p < 1298752458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1298752475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to do an INTERCAL-based ICFP entry sometime < 1298752485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it needs to be a vaguely appropriate task < 1298752491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems unlikely < 1298752518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: incidentally, I've half-invented a purely functional, lazy concatenative language < 1298752525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*purely functional, strongly-typed, < 1298752546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who invented the other half? < 1298752553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it just missing? < 1298752582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I haven't invented it yet < 1298752625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, by the way, can you edit the esolang wiki CSS? < 1298752631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be nice if you copied the "wikitable" class < 1298752636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from Wikipedia < 1298752696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can, indeed < 1298752696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think the CRTL spec is ambiguous < 1298752698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in more ways than one < 1298752701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the licensing on wikitable like? < 1298752707 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1298752715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, do the Wikipedia .css pages have licenses? < 1298752718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in MediaWiki:something < 1298752727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monobook.css or Common.css I think < 1298752732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, Vector.css, but that's not applicable for us) < 1298752734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MediaWiki:monobook.css or mediaWiki:common.css < 1298752737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the latter < 1298752756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm not sure < 1298752764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :monobook doesn't mention wikitable, but Common.css only has a few rules mentioning them < 1298752767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and none seem relevant < 1298752776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it's done via javascript... < 1298752780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that would be insane < 1298752787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's definitely CSS < 1298752801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember that I was involved in maintaining the MediaWiki: namespace on Wikipedia for over a year < 1298752811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I can't remember it all < 1298752816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :collectively for all users of one wiki in MediaWiki:Common.css (for example, on this and some other projects there is or was the class wikitable, later moved to shared.css) < 1298752820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/skins/common/shared.css?view=markup < 1298752835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it was moved, that would make sense < 1298752838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also these two from common.css: < 1298752839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[/* Normal font styling for table row headers with scope="row" tag */ < 1298752840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.wikitable.plainrowheaders th[scope=row] { < 1298752840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : font-weight: normal; < 1298752840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : text-align: left; < 1298752840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1298752843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1298752844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moved into the core itself is a little surprising, though < 1298752845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.wikitable td ul, < 1298752847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.wikitable td ol, < 1298752849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.wikitable td dl { < 1298752851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : text-align: left; < 1298752853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1298752857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1298752859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, that means it's OK for esolang, right? < 1298752867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the CSS files are licensed under mediawiki's license already < 1298752869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MediaWiki itself isn't PD either < 1298752878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but Esolang already has pages with its code < 1298752878 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1298752881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the MediaWiki: namespace < 1298752886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, those pages don't actually exist < 1298752887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they're arguably not pages < 1298752889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see? < 1298752892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you edit them, they do < 1298752893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's okay to put it in the .css page < 1298752895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1298752908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a case of global default, plus the possibility for a local override < 1298753123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm < 1298753129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the default file available < 1298753132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you edit it? < 1298753140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just include that with a css directive < 1298753167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then reasonably argue that the 16 wikitable lines are sufficiently obvious as to be uncopyrightable :P < 1298753180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but more importantly < 1298753180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CRTL! < 1298753187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be a mess; it is available sort-of, but the URL depends on things like whether you're logged in, or whatever < 1298753197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't you just do {| cellspacing=1 cellpadding=1 border=1 < 1298753199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever? < 1298753209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the old-fashioned pure-HTML way! < 1298753209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: border=1 produces an ugly ridge border < 1298753218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and having a flat border requires a style="" on every single cell < 1298753221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is hideously impractical < 1298753224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I actually rather like that sort of border < 1298753237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't like it on http://esolangs.org/wiki/Checkout/Quick_reference < 1298753240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too much visual noise < 1298753250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a flatter border would be beneficial, which wikitable has < 1298753257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, no CSS editing for me right now, I fear I'd get sucked into a holy war < 1298753266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as people would want it to be consistent across the wiki < 1298753275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1298753360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also fear it might end up breaking one of the Graue Regulations < 1298753371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are rules that you get into serious trouble for breaking, that nobody knows what they are until someone breaks them < 1298753382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(perhaps not even Graue) < 1298753398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote anyway, no CSS editing for me right now, I fear I'd get sucked into a holy war [...] I also fear it might end up breaking one of the Graue Regulations which are rules that you get into serious trouble for breaking, that nobody knows what they are until someone breaks them < 1298753399 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :320) anyway, no CSS editing for me right now, I fear I'd get sucked into a holy war [...] I also fear it might end up breaking one of the Graue Regulations which are rules that you get into serious trouble for breaking, that nobody knows what they are until someone breaks them < 1298753408 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I wrote an esolang interp in Clojure, would anyone use it, or are JVM esolang interps a bad idea? < 1298753412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :320 quotes and still not a funny one yet! < 1298753444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: they'd be around as likely to use it as in any other language < 1298753452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote 320 quotes and still not a funny one yet! < 1298753452 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :321) 320 quotes and still not a funny one yet! < 1298753455 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why do you keep adding non-funny quotes!? < 1298753467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: because if i didn't add quotes we'd never get a funny one!! < 1298753500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric : «Tra átedáwakin» tradáwan. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1298753510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not true < 1298753517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because running JVM stuff is a pain < 1298753523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially since all clojure programs come with an additional jar < 1298753536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ofc, if you meant that the chance is 0, then i agree < 1298753545 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QQ < 1298753570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, I was going on the basis that setting up esolang development environments tend to be nontrivial already < 1298753581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and, ofc, teaching Java for a living, I'm likely to be able to run JVM stuff...) < 1298753595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, did you ever figure out what computational calss qq was, apart from being sub-TC? < 1298753597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, really? < 1298753604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually it's just a "python" or a "gcc" away < 1298753692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: please don't ban me for twenty-four years < 1298753709 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..? < 1298753710 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we should standardize on asylum, so we can just build every esolang directly from svn < 1298753716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: :D < 1298753821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: note that that doesn't mean I think it's a good language < 1298753829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and especially not a good first language < 1298753836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what doesn't < 1298753840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you teaching java? < 1298753857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1298753867 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once Clojure-in-Clojure is completed, Clojure can be ported to bare metal! < 1298753873 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1298753876 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope, I mean < 1298753897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print "ok, so here comes the big gun (extracting the dependencies).This process takes about 2 minutes and 30 seconds to complete.....so chill" < 1298753901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--Asylum < 1298753947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's with the time estimates? < 1298753950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially hardcoded? < 1298753959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: idiocy is what's with them! < 1298753965 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't do it < 1298753976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you taken a look at my UL interp, btw? < 1298753986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may find oerjan's church algorithm interesting < 1298754067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not yet < 1298754091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do you have a copy of gearlance or one of its friends lying around, btw? I want to test some defend9.75 changes that egojous can't handle < 1298754117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and oerjan's church algorithm is presumably based on matching : and * pairs, but with specialcasing for commands that cancel each other out, and the ability to go down to 0 via !() < 1298754130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, the ! and () needn't be next to each other < 1298754133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they'd need to be included too < 1298754136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: egojsout? < 1298754138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the obvious thing to use < 1298754147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's online < 1298754150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and oerjan's church algorithm is presumably based on matching : and * pairs, but with specialcasing for commands that cancel each other out, and the ability to go down to 0 via !() < 1298754152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more complicated than that < 1298754158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus kind-of hard to use when I'm at home < 1298754159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no it's not, you can wget two files to get egojsout < 1298754162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I could save a local copy < 1298754172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: basically church works via partial emulation < 1298754187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it can even handle ((:*)^) < 1298754229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautifully complex < 1298754262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ul ((:a~*):a~*)^S < 1298754263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((:a~*):a~*)^S < 1298754263 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:a~*):a~* < 1298754266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! it works! < 1298754269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p === (p) < 1298754283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which i thought was impossible until i realised that's basically a quine) < 1298754293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((:a~*):a~*)^^^^^^S < 1298754294 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:a~*):a~* < 1298754318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this also implies that (p) === (p)a < 1298754319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1298754320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p === (p) < 1298754323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(p) === ((p)) < 1298754326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(p) === (p)a < 1298754513 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this feeling that the 3 lightbulbs problem would be fantastic for making sure you didn't hire people capable of abstraction. < 1298754540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut? < 1298754551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the switch thing. < 1298754569 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, that's probably a good criterion to hire code monkeys on. < 1298754569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My answer would be "Thanks, this interview is now over". < 1298754624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I know that upon hearing of the problem, I tried to work it out for more and more and more lightbulbs < 1298754651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spent quite a while wondering about if an infinite number were possible by undoing the switches, and reconnecting the wires behind them < 1298754658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I've forgotten what conclusion I came to < 1298754741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, i've entered my hating-all-languages rut again < 1298754743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1298754768 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I actually re-read the first time I started querying you on that. < 1298754784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, when you were horrible and liked things. < 1298754787 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out you actually did make sense, but you phrased your point *really* poorly. < 1298754790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a repulsive person you were! < 1298754795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (What logdate? X-D) < 1298754828 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, no, but you seemed to be saying "idiots hate Haskell because other idiots wrote crap libraries and package managers for it". < 1298754861 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which kind of implies a vast conspiracy of idiots making false flag operations to discredit languages which displease them. < 1298754871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I don't remember saying that < 1298754888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cabal isn't _awful_, just annoying in parts... and most hackage libraries are alright < 1298754898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say what's engendered most Haskell hate is dons' rabid promition >:) < 1298754900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*promotion < 1298754910 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's not what you actually were saying, but you constructed the sentence really poorly/ < 1298754951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you're assuming that all idiots have a common agenda < 1298754958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do < 1298754962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have a union and everything < 1298754963 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no, that's why it didn't make sense. < 1298754964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Union of Idiots < 1298754969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /hope/ that's not true, as the implications are complex and somewhat worrying < 1298754972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have bi-annual meetings < 1298754981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to discuss (idiotically) how to bring more idiocy into the world < 1298754987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very sinister. < 1298754989 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but how can you have a meeting of ~3 billion people? < 1298754992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they any good at it? < 1298755000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wow, that's an underestimate! < 1298755010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, absolutely terrible. unfortunately that's exactly what they're aiming for. < 1298755024 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the other 3.5 billion are too idiotic to have joined the union. < 1298755175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:27:05 the actual initial condition has no program that generates it < 1298755175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:27:08 the Perl is an approximation < 1298755175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errd < 1298755176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*er < 1298755177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*err < 1298755181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you ever write such a program? < 1298755238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ul (x)S < 1298755244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph, egobot used to have !ul as underload < 1298755247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, it was ais523's daemon < 1298755250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now it's all verbose! < 1298755331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was Keymaker's BF interp < 1298755339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I did was make a couple of small changes to daemonize it < 1298755349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I need more context to answer that < 1298755360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 2,3 proof < 1298755371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the initial condition's infinitely long < 1298755389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm trying to write a 1cnis program to generate it atm < 1298755399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to use 1cnis to formulate a definition of TCness < 1298755420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1298755470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is, that a language is TC if any Turing machine can be converted via a provably-halting process to a finite 1cnis program whose output is an initial condition for that language which causes it to halt iff the original Turing machine did) < 1298755612 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that say about 1cnis? < 1298755657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it's sub-TC < 1298755661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the point < 1298755671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's designed to be sub-TC, but still capable of relatively interesting output < 1298755802 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting enough to make your definition reasonable? < 1298755842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1298755863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the original definition was just "finite string padded with infinitely many 0s", then people realised that cyclic input was simple and interesting too < 1298755914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the 2,3 machine seems to need a more interesting generalised input than that < 1298755937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the idea's to use 1cnis to generate the input, without being powerful enough to work out whether a turing machine halts or not < 1298755959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: it's entirely possible for computable programs to work out if a TM halts if they're allowed infinite time to do so, and only have to output in the case where it halts) < 1298756044 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298756180 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a halt-recognizer. no one here would deny their existence. < 1298756189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1298756203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the idea is to come up with a language you can't write a general TM halt-recogniser in < 1298756209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet is as powerful as possible despite that < 1298756215 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1298756258 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is such a thing most likely less powerful than the most powerful sub-TC language? < 1298756272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I don't know < 1298756819 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think it's possible to design a language such that number of features it has are controlled by some parameter N, and as N->infinity, it the fraction of computable problems it is capable of deciding ->1? < 1298756856 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1298756863 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far, all the languages i know that have a parameter gain all the TCness suddenly in the jump from finite to infinite < 1298756876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (which is, that a language is TC if any Turing machine can be converted via a provably-halting process to a finite 1cnis program whose output is an initial condition for that language which causes it to halt iff the original Turing machine did) < 1298756878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dislike this < 1298756884 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, bounded loops < 1298756895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: for what reason? < 1298756938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because i don't think repeating progams are acceptable < 1298756965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1298756978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that makes a language with just enough to execute one sub-TC step, plus a simple conditional halt, TC < 1298756984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people disagree with you on that, I think < 1298756987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cycle (step; halt if halt flag) < 1298757002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's a little irritating that hibernation on this system correctly saves everything but the icon previews shown on alt-tab < 1298757017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is, that they're stored in GPU memory, and hibernation restores CPU memory correctly but screws up on GPU memory somehow < 1298757047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt they're exclusively in GPU memory... < 1298757051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: that makes a language with just enough to execute one sub-TC step, plus a simple conditional halt, TC <--- but it is, if it allows infinite programs, by most common definitions < 1298757072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, yes, which is why i don't think they should be allowed < 1298757090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a language which had that as its core but wrapped the whole program in an implicit cycle would be OK, since it doesn't have to resort to infinite programs being fed to an interpreter in its definition < 1298757095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think such a language probably /is/ TC, all it's missing is a loop construct < 1298757110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1298757113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's missing a loop construct < 1298757116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unconditional goto would be enough < 1298757126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and given that it allows infinite programs, that in itself is a loop construct < 1298757133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I really want is a formal definition of IO-complete. < 1298757156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: put it this way: Turing machines themselves are non-TC by your definition, because they'd only be allowed a finitely long tape < 1298757214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, no, tape isn't part of the program < 1298757250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm talking about using 1cnis to generate the equivalent of the tape < 1298757256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1298757259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. an input for a /particular/ Turing machine < 1298757273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough, then < 1298757286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm really talking from a language point of view < 1298757290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TMs are weird < 1298757320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, do you consider "turing machine" a language, or "a particular turing machine" a language? there are cases to be made for both points of view < 1298757347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, precisely < 1298757511 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1298757521 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298757521 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1298757521 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1298757580 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a universal turing machine is TC :o < 1298757593 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-202.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298757612 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1298757680 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Prince_Charles < 1298757692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you've read stack overflow a bit, right? < 1298757700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is the difference between the programmers stackexchange and stackoverflow < 1298757704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very small bit, mostly I just follow links to it from reddit < 1298757707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"migrated from stackoverflow.com 2 days ago < 1298757707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This question came from our site for professional and enthusiast programmers." --programmers.stackexchange < 1298757712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is a collaboratively edited question and answer site for expert programmers interested in professional discussions on software development. It's 100% free, no registration required." --programmers.stackexchange < 1298757714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think stackoverflow's about programming/coding specifically < 1298757722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is "What kind of things are easy in Haskell and hard in Scala, and vice versa?" < 1298757724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, "how do I write a while loop in brainfuck" < 1298757726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is about programming/coding < 1298757732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: possibly, but < 1298757733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : This question came from our site for professional and enthusiast programmers." --programmers.stackexchange < 1298757733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "This is a collaboratively edited question and answer site for expert programmers interested in professional discussions on software development. It's 100% free, no registration required." --programmers.stackexchange < 1298757737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas stackexchange is about things that aren't quite so specific < 1298757738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those descriptions are almost identical < 1298757743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*programmers. < 1298757748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stackexchange is just their money cow < 1298757755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, is money cow a word? :D < 1298757756 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, stackexchange is more enterprisey, and apparently has a more insane community < 1298757764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: stackexchange is a host < 1298757769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop referring to an individual site as that < 1298757773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like saying "geocities is badly designed" < 1298757775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of one site on it < 1298757793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, didn't realise there was more than one stackexchange site < 1298757815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for instance the Mathematics one < 1298757823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(different from MathOverflow, which is also a stack exchange site, but with its own domain) < 1298757836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it seems every stack*/*overflow site must have two copies!) < 1298757857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically Mathematics stackexchange is for idiots and MathOverflow is for mathematicians < 1298757875 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1298757919 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298757919 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1298757919 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1298757922 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://komplexify.com/blog/2011/02/23/indefinite-is-right/ < 1298757924 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1298757950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I’ve gone on about renaming the imaginary number or being precise with trig, and I’m a believer that was the wrong choice." < 1298757954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Person with no actual mathematical skill detected. < 1298757958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that pi was < 1298757962 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, link? < 1298757967 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1298757968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: THE THING YOU JUST LINKED < 1298757972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1298757979 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@87-95-31-198.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1298757984 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I SKIPPED THE FIRST BIT AND LOOKED AT THE FIRST MATHSY BIT < 1298757995 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, DO YOU HAVE, LIKE, A MATHS DETECTOR < 1298758003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol < 1298758003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg < 1298758005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've miiissed you < 1298758012 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Prince_Charles phantom < 1298758018 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, #esoteric-minecraft NOW < 1298758020 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yes. < 1298758029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol promise not to ever leave again please < 1298758044 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i promised to myself i wouldn't join before my master's thesis is finished, but here i am < 1298758054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a terrible promise, i hereby revoke it < 1298758066 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's been revokened already < 1298758070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooray < 1298758075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you revoke someone else's promise? < 1298758080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: forcibly < 1298758085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: note that I haven't been here for a while for similar reasons < 1298758098 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although my master's thesis was finished, submitted and marked ages ago < 1298758098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I thought you were avoiding someone < 1298758102 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but you're doing a real thesis < 1298758106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who can... tell when you're on IRC, or something < 1298758107 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm doing a silly kids' thesis < 1298758118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, in order to give myself enough time to finish the work for them that I hadn't done < 1298758122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1298758126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a copy of oklopol's masters thesis right here < 1298758129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :allow me to recite < 1298758135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1298758138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would be suitably insulting < 1298758150 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's in Finnish, remember. < 1298758153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY THE HALTING PROBLEM MEANS YOU CAN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT ANY PROGRAM, YOU JUST CAN'T KNOW, OR, < 1298758171 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not in finnish < 1298758173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Päöööööketealala on defining divison by zero in the reals < 1298758174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By < 1298758176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oklo the Pol < 1298758184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: one word of the title is! < 1298758195 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in yours, yes, in mine, no < 1298758199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: why not? < 1298758207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because oklopol can't speak finnish < 1298758210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that English researchers can read it? < 1298758210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he actually lives in new jersey < 1298758211 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because english is easier < 1298758215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1298758219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but finnish is agglutinative < 1298758223 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too < 1298758227 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the aggleuege thing < 1298758231 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's annoying < 1298758233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you ever pass up the chance to just pile a bunch of words on top of each other to get a new word < 1298758236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's amazing < 1298758263 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact english researchers can read it doesn't matter because no one is going to read it except my supervisor < 1298758281 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and another guy who checks it, who actually isn't very good at english because he's over 100 years old < 1298758292 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, AS A MEMBER OF THE ROYAL FAMILY MIGHT I REMIND YOU THAT ENGLISH IS OBVIOUSLY THE SUPERIOR LANGUAGE < 1298758294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i'd totally read it and pretend to understand, but i bet you won't even upload it < 1298758304 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to do the bachelor's in finnish, but - thank god - you can do your master's in english < 1298758312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: can't you get executed for impersonating the royal family < 1298758323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I'm just glad they don't make me do my PhD thesis in Finnish < 1298758326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i thought you were learning japspeak anyway, and that's agglunuangungoisnaoign pile-on-toppy < 1298758330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't know Finnish, and it would be kind-of difficult < 1298758330 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it will probably be published < 1298758334 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can link it < 1298758339 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, true, but I am a member of the royal family so it doesn't apply. < 1298758348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: toucheee < 1298758350 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :published in a free place < 1298758360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just learn the words for basic logical things < 1298758369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and use agglutinativity to construct the rest of what you have to say < 1298758374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from scratch < 1298758380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, every word will take up about five pages < 1298758380 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://komplexify.com/blog/2009/02/19/in-defense-of-j/ < 1298758398 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr: "i is bad because it weeds the idiots out of mathematics." < 1298758415 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1298758417 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is i < 1298758425 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, -_- < 1298758426 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1298758428 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the language < 1298758429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i is elliott < 1298758434 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the imaginarium < 1298758442 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of Doctor Parnassus? < 1298758449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Persnickity < 1298758452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was i gonna say. uhh. < 1298758460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah. < 1298758466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um i forgot. < 1298758475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's talk about how bad google translate's interface is. < 1298758478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something. < 1298758482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TDWTF forums are discussing the fact that apparently, you aren't supposed to use MSDN versions of Windows for anything but development < 1298758513 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but we have already pointed out that text interfaces are USER UNFRIENDLY and COMPLETELY INFERIOR TO SYSTEMS SUCH AS 3DNA, eh, Sgeo? < 1298758522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: it seems that the only mathematical stuff this guy writes about is stupid notational complaints < 1298758538 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I were my father I would make an antisemitic remark here. < 1298758541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should be j! "sin(x)^2 should obviously mean sin(x) squared, and sin^2(x) is like satan itself!" < 1298758546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"blah blah blah integrals confuse me!" < 1298758560 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles, when did I suggest that the me now agrees with the past me? < 1298758569 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if there's people who believe in the reals but not the complex numbers < 1298758575 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is OK to use "i" for imaginary numbers. I think it can be formatted as $\rm i$ when you mean the imaginary numbers mathematical constant rather than the variable "i" as $i$ < 1298758579 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, Recordis < 1298758591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: an iterated sin/cos is useful in describing the motion of a child on a swing < 1298758592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: they're imaginary! < 1298758608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but not an adult? < 1298758614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they swing differently? < 1298758614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their horizontal displacement from the midpoint is sin sin t, if you choose appropriate values < 1298758616 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recordis hates imaginary numbers. < 1298758619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I’m am a professional mathematician with an interest in the liberal arts." < 1298758621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adults tend to swing more violently, and possibly break the swing < 1298758623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'm am a professional mathematician < 1298758625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there's more air resistance < 1298758629 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you missed the point. the point was way stupider than that. < 1298758633 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, who is this Recordis person. < 1298758635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote zzo38: you missed the point. the point was way stupider than that. < 1298758641 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he's a professional complex analyst. < 1298758653 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :322) zzo38: you missed the point. the point was way stupider than that. < 1298758664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even want to know who Recordis is. < 1298758667 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we really want to go around changing math notation, let's start with the *really* egregious stuff. < 1298758675 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like 1-indexing of matrices. < 1298758675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a lie, i do want to know < 1298758680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i can laugh at Sgeo for associating with him < 1298758684 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, some idiot who Sgeo is incapable of seeing as such. < 1298758690 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fictitious character. < 1298758712 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i'm actually doing stuff where i need to do stuff on the whole Z^2 plane, but actually usually just use a submatrix of it < 1298758733 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i have to either use nonstandard indexing of matrices or < 1298758749 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonstandard indexing of the plane < 1298758767 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I'm just a poor CS student in a linear algebra class. 1-indexing must die. < 1298758773 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or constantly switch < 1298758782 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanted to strangle mathematics when i realized this < 1298758784 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did read the article. Also, they are wrong when they said "Mathematicians tried to fix this somewhat by changing the name of imaginary numbers to complex numbers". Imaginary numbers are like square root of negative numbers. Complex numbers are numbers with real and imaginary components. < 1298758796 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i was mostly hating on the fact the axes are in a different order < 1298758797 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(One or both of which may be zero) < 1298758800 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AlgebraTheEasyWay <3 < 1298758809 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As should (as I have said) any emphasis manual computation of algorithms. < 1298758830 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1-indexing is annoying as well, usually < 1298758845 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I SUSPECT YOU OF BEING INVOLVED < 1298758858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1-indexing is silly, it's for people who think N is the wrong N < 1298758862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1298758883 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, like the maths teacher who kicked me out of class for that? < 1298758887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES < 1298758888 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, manual computation of algorithms has absolutely no use. At all. < 1298758898 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Implementing* an algorithm, sure. < 1298758901 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which N is correct, elliott? < 1298758918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the one starting with 4 < 1298758919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean 0 < 1298758922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i mean 4) < 1298758928 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it's so you can know the suffering of those pre-any electronic device or slide rule people < 1298758934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it be cool if 4 was the smallest number. < 1298758951 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you mean pre-Napier people? < 1298758963 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was back when you didn't even have sensible notation. < 1298758971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What are these books doing on this site, then? Well, as the above quote suggests, the textbooks are written in the format of adventure novels, where the main characters essentially have to derive algebra (respectively trigonometry, calculus) from first principles in order to prevent the Big Bad from taking over the kingdom." < 1298758972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear god Sgeo < 1298758976 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes think of how things must have been then and shiver. < 1298758995 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i use the other N more often < 1298758998 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's mostly because for some reason indexing usually starts at 0 < 1298758999 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what? < 1298759012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: err the correct N is the one that includes 0 < 1298759015 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles, Wiki is unhelpful here < 1298759019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that me agreeing with you < 1298759020 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: erm, starts at 1 < 1298759022 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, Napier? < 1298759036 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The guy who invented logarithms in the stupidest way possible? < 1298759038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: right well that's just because everyone is stupid < 1298759044 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I suppose we should also make students know the suffering of those pre-pencil, and have to deal with a quill and an ink well? < 1298759051 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this we agree on < 1298759053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: YES < 1298759053 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Scottish < 1298759094 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oi, pencils are horrible. < 1298759105 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I do *all* written work with a fountain pen.) < 1298759107 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: Not compared to a quill. < 1298759116 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(My handwriting is legendarily awful.) < 1298759132 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Then in Chapter 8 of Calculus the Easy Way, the heroes have three hours to derive the Fundamental Theorem of Integral Calculus; if they fail, the entire country will be destroyed in a fire or flood.]] < 1298759134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: :pretentious fart: < 1298759134 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Knuth prefers writing a matrix with parentheses instead of square brackets? I prefer using square brackets for a matrix, and fortunately it is very easy to do in TeX: \def\bmatrix#1{\left[\matrix{#1}\right]} < 1298759138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOO COOL FOR BIRO EH < 1298759138 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but fountain pen cannot be destroyd < 1298759140 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What way do you prefer? < 1298759141 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*destroyed < 1298759149 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you have 10 seconds to tell me how that is not horrifically contrived. < 1298759155 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and students should also have to deal with books of tables of basic functions, like log and exp. < 1298759187 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which way do you prefer to display a matrix? < 1298759192 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, biros are horrible to write with... < 1298759201 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it makes sense to have to learn to deal with decades-old concerns. < 1298759204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: see < 1298759205 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ballpoint pens do suck. < 1298759207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too good for biros < 1298759209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking < 1298759209 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: parens < 1298759211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretentious elitistifier < 1298759212 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They require way too much pressure to use comfortably. < 1298759216 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles, well, the problem as presented to the characters is about finding the volume of a bunch of pools that the Gremlin placed magical flames in < 1298759220 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're cheap, and that's about the only thing that can be said for them. < 1298759225 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They need exactly the right amount of water, no more no less < 1298759228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: stfu busy mocking prince charles < 1298759232 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is contrieved, of course < 1298759247 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, y'know what, I don't care. < 1298759271 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: So you agree with Knuth on that, then. Nothing wrong with that; it is just different convention being used. (You can use \pmatrix in TeX to typeset such a matrix (except on Wikipedia).) < 1298759273 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're so incapable of abstract thought to need everything given a stupid "practical" scenario, I have no time for you. < 1298759311 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles, it's entertaining, and it helped me understand to some degree when I was a kid < 1298759335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION votes we just force kids to deal with abstract thought from a young age.
< 1298759345 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Step one: Ixnay on the algorithms. < 1298759366 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i use \begin{array} \end{it} in my latex. < 1298759388 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, which algorithms? < 1298759388 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I still hate Trigonometry < 1298759404 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I can't fault you on that, I hate trig too. < 1298759409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: Addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division. There is no sense in spending 6 years on them. < 1298759436 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes there is; idiots can't understand them. < 1298759457 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you need to redefine them about 3 times for different sets. < 1298759459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what about those of us terrible at arithmetic. :p < 1298759479 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we could kill everyone who's stupid? < 1298759492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like cough me < 1298759493 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Six. Fucking. Years. to get a high level of competency at a skill that is about as useful as the ability to succesfully operate a slide rule. < 1298759497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's in response to my line /and/ oklopol's < 1298759500 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: you mean extend for larger sets of numbers? < 1298759504 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what < 1298759510 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well, yeah. < 1298759518 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the N Z Q R C thing < 1298759529 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, perhaps *teach* them, but you really, really, really don't need to spend *years* drilling on them to get students to be able to perform them quickly. < 1298759540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone actually use Q? or is it just there for completeness? < 1298759545 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a slide rule! < 1298759554 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Q is taught pretty thoroughly. < 1298759558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made one once, but it wasn't very accurate < 1298759560 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm Q is used all the time < 1298759594 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that's rationals, not quaternions. < 1298759599 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1298759611 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then yeah, Q is covered pretty completely. < 1298759612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I like Q! < 1298759616 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you haven't seen Q used in math? :P < 1298759620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's much nicer than R. < 1298759629 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I was a kid, I read a book on doing arithmatic a bit differently < 1298759630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I think I study the wrong sort of math < 1298759631 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I prefer the computable reals, myself. < 1298759632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for that < 1298759636 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, it's basically all that's covered until idiots start getting trimmed out. < 1298759636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*maths < 1298759643 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, you study COMPUTER MATHS < 1298759660 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what sort of maths do you study? < 1298759663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: remember I was an electronic engineer for years < 1298759680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: mostly linear and affine type systems, at the moment < 1298759684 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, SCUUUUUM < 1298759689 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously there are some things wrong with the mathematical typesetting in Wikipedia, some things are incompatible between TeX and Wikipedia. If I write a change file for TeX and a program to convert a Pascal code to PHP, and then add some things to output .png and so on, can they use it? < 1298759691 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: It's a bit like spending 6 freaking years on the ability to write the glyphs of your spoken language well. < 1298759693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: that's a strange reaction < 1298759695 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well of course you won't see Q when doing continuous engineer stuff < 1298759700 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a *fucking waste of time*. < 1298759700 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1298759703 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ever heard of handwriting lessons? < 1298759705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I suspect they can, but that doesn't necessarily mean they will < 1298759718 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, maybe you don't have them in the States. < 1298759722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, remember that TeX is Turing-complete < 1298759726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be bad for a wiki engine to be TC < 1298759727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: Yes, we spend years on handwriting too. < 1298759732 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: It is still a fucking waste of time. < 1298759776 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I feel that we are somehow arguing over something we agree on. < 1298759791 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes I do know. And I would like wiki engine to be TC, however. It helps with many things. Even Hackiki is a TC engine (actually it has limited memory; but I mean ignoring that). And it can have time limit for PHP running. < 1298759792 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could literally remove the first 6 years of public schooling and have lost nothing. < 1298759824 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, weeeellll... < 1298759844 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.hookahcompany.com/hobo_nargile_4363_prd1.htm should i get? < 1298759847 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some useful bits in there, but they're mainly completed early on. < 1298759852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: Okay, not quite literally. Unless the parents are not idiots. < 1298759855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: no < 1298759855 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could replace it by beating the kids with a hammer for a few years to make the transition more smooth < 1298759862 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why not < 1298759875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm throwing out a truth value at pseudorandom without following the link < 1298759883 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the parents *are* idiots, then you have lost time away from the TV, which at least has some value. < 1298759890 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :) < 1298759901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides, "no" is my default answer to any question that involves "should I buy X" < 1298759902 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1298759902 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1298759922 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cannot remember any significant intellectual development he made in primary school.
< 1298759935 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have WAY too much money < 1298759943 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol! < 1298759943 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1298759946 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION learned to program whilst going through primary school
< 1298759953 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there was the odd bit of useful science, but nothing much more. < 1298759955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, I think I received my first spam ever on my nomic email account < 1298759955 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: i can't remember any development in high school either < 1298759958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally they come on the main one < 1298759971 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And read books that many high school graduates couldn't... < 1298759977 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was like 3 years of coma < 1298759979 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's not because of primary school at all. < 1298759987 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're all quite lame < 1298759990 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, wait, 3? < 1298759998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a 419 again, although this time the person doing it, apparently the daughter of the late "king of Bobo Land In BURKINA_FASO", is romantically interested in me < 1298760003 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in primary school i was reading the science desk reference cover to cover < 1298760005 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are your schools set out? < 1298760008 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and trying to grok relativity < 1298760013 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(failingly) < 1298760023 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: 3 years of high school is the norm in many countries, and was the norm in the US until vaguely recently. < 1298760031 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: yeah, that's the normal amount here < 1298760037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's a 419 again, although this time the person doing it, apparently the daughter of the late "king of Bobo Land In BURKINA_FASO", is romantically interested in me < 1298760040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1298760047 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ... < 1298760057 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, what ages are high school? < 1298760058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, reply-to doesn't match send address, /and/ there isn't an address to send to listed in the body of the email itself < 1298760066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which implies to me that the scammer is at least vaguely technically literate < 1298760067 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming you have 3 tiers. < 1298760073 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we first do 6 years of bullshit, then 3 more years of supposedly more advanced bullshit, then 3 years of high school, which is bullshit < 1298760098 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even has undisclosed recipients < 1298760117 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 years of bullshit, 3 years of bullshit, then 4 years of bullshit here. < 1298760119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm impressed, although I'm not actually planning to reply < 1298760124 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: we stard high school at 15 or 16 or something i think? < 1298760139 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you calculate, i'm on my 3rd year of uni and i was born in 89 < 1298760142 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ah, right. < 1298760150 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no gaps anywhere < 1298760190 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: We start high school around 14, graduate around 18. < 1298760193 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you get the answer, tell me too, would be interesting to know < 1298760237 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah, here it's secondary from 11 to 17. < 1298760248 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... you start school at 5? < 1298760272 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is way too confusing < 1298760272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1298760289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Yup. < 1298760295 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brain has no slots for bullshit-related information :( < 1298760301 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well, I started at 4, and those ages are based on my age at the end of each year. < 1298760321 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup at the 5 thing? < 1298760324 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1298760327 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gyaargh, fencepost. < 1298760327 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do have a program texvc written in OCaml. I could just write a shorter one in PHP and then write a TeX format file to disable a few commands and omit page numbers and so on. And then render all formulas in one TeX document and each page of output is then made into a .png file. < 1298760331 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fenceposts. < 1298760335 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12-17, then. < 1298760356 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 5-11 is primary. < 1298760367 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And have \write limited to writing to only one file, which its contents are then processed as MediaWiki codes by MediaWiki. < 1298760377 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at 4? :D here's a list of what we do at age 4: < 1298760402 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1298760404 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and here comes the exhaustive list for ages 5-6: < 1298760410 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then add some sort of timeout mechanism. < 1298760421 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, P1 has basically nothing in it. < 1298760436 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Middle school, also part of secondary education in the US, starts around 11 and goes to age 14... < 1298760439 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beginnings of reading and writing is all that I can remember. < 1298760466 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah, and we have an optional "preschool" thing... < 1298760471 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P1 being first year of primary? < 1298760478 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yes. < 1298760503 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we start learning to write at 7 < 1298760503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yeah, we spend a *fuckton* of time on primary and secondary education for, well, shitty results. < 1298760536 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have preschool at age 6, but that's just playing < 1298760606 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, pfft, we had woodwork when I was at nursery. < 1298760609 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With nails and hammers. < 1298760610 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, in Hackiki, it is probably possible to make proper TeX math. Does Hackiki have TeX? If not, does it have a GNU Pascal compiler (so that tex-gpc can be installed)? < 1298760619 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gave myself a blood blister once. < 1298760624 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's not a heck of a lot of value in kindergarten (first year of primary education), but it is mandatory in many states. < 1298760626 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nursery = ? < 1298760632 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, preschool. < 1298760640 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that'd be... age 3? < 1298760649 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, 4. < 1298760652 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we drool at age 3 < 1298760656 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here in finland < 1298760660 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1298760661 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1298760675 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty saddening that I could probably do education better than our school systems. Personally. < 1298760680 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have in fact, written a program that convert .dvi to .pbm format. < 1298760690 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well, could you? < 1298760690 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what you went to school at age 4 because you were a particularly smart 4yo? :P < 1298760700 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yes. < 1298760704 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1298760704 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1298760711 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cool < 1298760716 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I might have been able to read by then, but I can't actually remember. < 1298760718 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, courtesy of the religious wackos around here, I would actually be able to do so should I ever have a child. < 1298760764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i went to school at 4 < 1298760765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and could read < 1298760766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1298760767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preschool eyah < 1298760768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yeah < 1298760773 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm right next to the lower age boundary, though, so it was really a matter of rounding up rather than down.) < 1298760775 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone can read at 4 < 1298760775 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(certain religious nutjobs are worried about our schools not being sufficiently crazy, so have fought for the right to do homeschooling. Little-to-no regulations with it.) < 1298760818 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only tried writing at 5, i wrote "fuck, shit, satan" on a piece of paper, and showed it to my father, proud as hell < 1298760822 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in finnish) < 1298760849 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :homeschooling ftw < 1298760869 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, not *unregulated* homeschooling, though. < 1298760880 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: Regulations vary from state to state. < 1298760895 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the whargarble is strong in many states in the US. < 1298760908 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since that inevitably just results in crazies ruining their children's chances of sanity < 1298760908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regulate parenting, not homeschooling :P < 1298760930 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that's strangely unpalatable to some people. < 1298760930 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parents suck at parenting < 1298760941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't care < 1298760944 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, these people tend to be the lesser kind of idiot. < 1298760976 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, people suck at living < 1298760985 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general < 1298761008 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, the kind who aren't actively *stupid*, but are just incapable of making rational decisionss. < 1298761011 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*decisions < 1298761025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that you can't really stop crazies without rapidly approaching china :) < 1298761030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*crazies from breeding < 1298761047 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to stop them from breeding, you just have to kill their children < 1298761050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no real moral issue with regulating reproduction and parenting _except_ that it requires too powerful a government < 1298761056 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much less painful to everyone < 1298761061 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they still get to have sex < 1298761064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(providing services doesn't make a government more powerful) < 1298761064 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What elliott said < 1298761076 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but none of those condoms and buying kids food and shit < 1298761076 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, one other issue < 1298761086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's just have abortions for everyone!! < 1298761092 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, clearly the solution is to enact mandatory, genetically fixed sterilisation. < 1298761093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you don't even have to go through childbirth amirite < 1298761098 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regulating children is inhumane regardless of the step you do it at < 1298761099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: I have no real moral issue with regulating reproduction and parenting _except_ that it requires too powerful a government < 1298761099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1298761104 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it weren't inhumane, I wouldn't have an issue with it < 1298761122 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :requiring parents to undergo a course when pregnant would be fine < 1298761143 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. Apparently only a minority of those homeschooling in the US do so for any religious reasons at all. < 1298761145 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but moving children/preventing them from being born is not good < 1298761155 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hmm. < 1298761161 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: A lot do it because they (correctly) believe they can teach better than their children < 1298761168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was officially down as being homeschooled for N years. < 1298761171 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1298761173 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any factors able to skew that? < 1298761174 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1298761176 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than the teachers < 1298761183 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yeah, some 48%. < 1298761186 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what *were* you doing? < 1298761197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: Wikipedia :-P < 1298761198 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :teaching himself < 1298761200 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or because they don't want their children exposed to school social environment < 1298761209 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Which is entirely valid, IMO. < 1298761210 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also a good idea as long as they make sure their kid gets some social exposure) < 1298761218 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, WP kind of sucks as a teaching resource. < 1298761222 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the modern school social environment usually sucks < 1298761231 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am led to believe it's worse in the US < 1298761238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: Well, it's not ideal. WP + google is better than standardised schooling though. < 1298761247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's permanently scarring in the US. < 1298761249 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's just a heap of definitions that frequently take a lot of cross-referencing to figure out. < 1298761250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At the pre-university level.) < 1298761257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: Yes, but I call that "fun". < 1298761260 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: is it? < 1298761278 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could probably go to university at the end of this year, but the thought of going at 16 scares me too much. < 1298761289 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: why does it scare you? < 1298761300 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, because I'm a wuss. < 1298761304 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Here it was bad until I found a good peer group. Then the rest of the environment didn't matter because I had my peer group < 1298761304 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one cares how old you are at the uni < 1298761306 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least here < 1298761311 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: We have a fairly high proportion of mental disorders such as depression in high schoolers these days. < 1298761320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it would be awkward < 1298761326 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1298761327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and things being awkward aren't related to whether anyone else cares or not < 1298761332 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1298761334 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not for long. < 1298761338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: um deviating against any kind of social norm is usually pretty awkward < 1298761344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least for a short while < 1298761367 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people come to uni at all kinds of ages < 1298761372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: maybe in .fi < 1298761375 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: fair, but any clue why? < 1298761378 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right < 1298761388 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it the attitude at school in particular or social attitudes generally? < 1298761399 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was in uni courses when i was 16 and it was not at all awkward < 1298761410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah but you're insanely extroverted. < 1298761420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're all hopelessly shy nerds with social anxiety. < 1298761423 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people keep telling me that < 1298761426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and and uh < 1298761427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pimples!! < 1298761430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ACNE < 1298761433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta fit < 1298761433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all < 1298761433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the < 1298761434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Y'know "Lord of the Flies"? < 1298761435 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a bit of acne < 1298761435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stereotypes < 1298761437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in < 1298761441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stereotypes, gotta catch 'em all < 1298761446 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, IRL I am actually fairly extroverted depending on circumstances. < 1298761446 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hah < 1298761448 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, s|"|/|g < 1298761468 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!~user@2002:5870:3714:0:20e:a6ff:fe6f:2288 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298761469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm ridiculously shy and have terrible social anxiety but with friends I'm irritatingly chatty. < 1298761470 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: admittedly, my school had a gifted program < 1298761474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It bothers me. < 1298761517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Seriously, the administration at most schools fundamentally doesn't care about what's going on. If something comes to their attention, all involved get suspension or expulsion. < 1298761527 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: really? yuck :( < 1298761541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You forgot "or ignored". < 1298761544 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my administration experience was pretty good < 1298761545 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the n-volume of a standard n-simplex is 1/n! right? < 1298761548 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Or ignored, yes. < 1298761549 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they obviously couldn't monitor everything < 1298761560 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: what's a standard n-simplex? < 1298761561 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Depending on how their week had been going, really. < 1298761570 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one where you have a point 1 along each axis? < 1298761572 0 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298761581 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My experience with administration has been pretty negative, but then again I've never really had a problem with people making my life hell. < 1298761592 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: exactly < 1298761594 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I felt I was being bullied a bit more than constituted just fun one time, and I went in, and the assistant principal dragged everyone I named in and gave them a talking-to (using the convenient excuse that the substitute teacher that day had been concerned) < 1298761604 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they didn't get suspended, but they definitely got a message < 1298761607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was, uh, not very popular in middle school. < 1298761612 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I'll be fair; I didn't really want them suspended) < 1298761650 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Here, you'd be ignored up until you got injured. < 1298761655 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: And then you'd be punished! < 1298761660 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray, zero-tolerance! < 1298761666 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :/ < 1298761668 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that's awful < 1298761673 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i think it is, don't know tho < 1298761681 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, why would *you* get punished? < 1298761696 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hmm < 1298761716 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ermmmm < 1298761788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: Illogic. < 1298761822 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well who likes a little fag who gets beaten up all the time right < 1298761876 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I am genuinely curious as to what kind of twisted mind comes up with such an idiotic policy. < 1298761879 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i have no idea how to calculate that, even, in a simple way < 1298761929 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well, i'm pretty sure the first three are 1,1/2,1/6, so i just assumed it would continue :P < 1298761930 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except maybe solving the integral actually is pretty simple < 1298761934 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gives you 1/n! < 1298761958 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have nested integrals from 0 to 1, and you're integrating constant 1 < 1298761973 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1, x, x^2/2, x^3/6 etc < 1298761978 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, answer goddamn it. < 1298761981 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't make me hit you < 1298761996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : well who likes a little fag who gets beaten up all the time right < 1298761999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;--------------; < 1298762006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea what that smiley is even. < 1298762010 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1298762048 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1298762068 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: sorry, you may have noticed i was a bit hasty there, it's not that simple :P < 1298762077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:06:34 but I felt I was being bullied a bit more than constituted just fun one time, and I went in, and the assistant principal dragged everyone I named in and gave them a talking-to (using the convenient excuse that the substitute teacher that day had been concerned) < 1298762077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:06:44 they didn't get suspended, but they definitely got a message < 1298762092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened with me (obviously i was a lot younger) was, uh < 1298762103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i think they got verbally half-slapped on the wrist. < 1298762115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i don't know of any actual evidence that even that happened < 1298762139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that incident was actually physical.) < 1298762147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr i have no idea what this tl;dr is < 1298762150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1298762152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ff < 1298762155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back to minecraft < 1298762161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to get bullied by skeletons HUR HUR < 1298762163 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think we had that much bullying in our school, the physical kind that is < 1298762168 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it looks like it works out though < 1298762186 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it does. but does it actually work out? < 1298762196 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1298762219 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first integral is from 0 to 1, but the second is from 0 to 1-x for x the first integral's variable, and after that who knows! < 1298762244 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another way to approach it would be to decide whether the 1/n*A_0*h formula for volume of pyramids holds for all n < 1298762303 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm actually the simplex consists of the nonnegative points such that the sum of coordinates is less than or equal to 1 right < 1298762311 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's trivial to do the integral < 1298762324 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1298762338 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well isn't it? < 1298762340 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1298762346 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take one axis, let x go 0 to 1 < 1298762368 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, on the second axis, you have used up x... stuff, so now you have from 0 to 1-y to use < 1298762397 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(we'll take it as a given that any natural way to make a for-loop over the uncountable set of points gives us the right answer) < 1298762407 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1298762417 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the z axis you have 0 to 1-x-y left < 1298762432 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in "stuff, so now you have from 0 to 1-y to use", you have 0 to 1-x to use ofc, sorry < 1298762434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: Because zero tolerance for fights at all. < 1298762453 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, even if it was completely one-sided? < 1298762474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: You shouldn't have worn such provocative clothing if you didn't want to be raped! < 1298762497 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah if someone starts violently hitting his head against your fist, why should YOU get punished? < 1298762517 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it occurs to me that all you nerds have been beaten up all your life and this is a really sensitive topic. < 1298762546 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I've only been beaten up to any appreciable degree twice. < 1298762605 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would probably just count one beating a proper one < 1298762618 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have never been beaten up < 1298762622 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least involuntarily < 1298762623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i've only actually been physically beaten up once. < 1298762624 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that time when i didn't pay the pizza delivery guys more money because they came two hours late < 1298762626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but many more threats. < 1298762628 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's fight, oklopol < 1298762628 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they beat me up < 1298762631 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And both of those were just being punched in the face. < 1298762649 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i've been punched in the face a lot of times < 1298762689 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i'm not interested, to be honest < 1298762690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: Wimp, mine was being picked up roughly, dragged on the ground and carried indoors where I was shoved into a cupboard which was slammed shut. < 1298762699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, so being punched in the face was probably more _painful_.) < 1298762708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: btw i don't consider this a sensitive topic :P < 1298762712 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah, but that's because you're an ENGLISH PANSY < 1298762729 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha yeah elliott is a fag < 1298762730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow i actually managed to forget it happened until nighttime xD < 1298762736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: MY HOMOSEXUALITY ON THE OTHER HAND < 1298762783 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you mean you were in the cupboard all day, thinking about your latest OS project, and 8 hours later OH MY GOD THEY LOCKED ME IN A CUPBOARD! < 1298762789 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up < 1298762792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1298762797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was like six < 1298762809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think the cupboard actually locked < 1298762812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was pretty small though < 1298762855 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is so gay, he has consensual sex with other men and enjoys it. < 1298762865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because i'm gay doesn't mean i'm a fag. < 1298762871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST BECAUSE I'M GAY DOESN'T MEAN I'M HOMOSEXUAL < 1298762878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because i'm homosexual < 1298762880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't mean i have sex with men. < 1298762886 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not gonna touch that subject...that's a faggot-over-a-load for sure :P < 1298762888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i'm also a paedophile < 1298762896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get it < 1298762897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MEN < 1298762922 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i get it, it's not very funny, so please explain < 1298762947 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it occurs to me that i have beer next to me < 1298762954 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i could get drunk now that i'm here < 1298762969 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i'd be all like < 1298762971 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beer is good < 1298762973 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL I'M SOOOOOOOOOO DURNK < 1298762979 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAA EVERYTHINGSPINNING < 1298762980 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1298762994 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ that's what i'd be like < 1298763009 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1298763009 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not the kind of like that leaves the channel i meant what i said. < 1298763012 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you wouldn't < 1298763017 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't? < 1298763023 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you couldn't fit that much beer in your intestines < 1298763027 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try hard liquor if you want that < 1298763035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oklopol> if i get it, it's not very funny, so please explain < 1298763039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see if i'm a gay paedophile < 1298763043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have sex with men < 1298763047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have sex with BOYS < 1298763049 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1298763052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott Hird ehird google < 1298763057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric irc logs < 1298763059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott hird cv < 1298763065 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i got < 1298763068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just making sure google finds this when future employers googlestalk me) < 1298763080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott Hird programmer < 1298763083 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :figured that's what it was < 1298763084 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1298763151 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : DAMMIT I'M ON THE SEX OFFENDERS REGISTER < 1298763165 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have one in the uk? < 1298763201 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1298763217 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll probably have to disconnect soon and never return < 1298763228 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also best we put it in the qdb < 1298763241 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!~user@2002:5870:3714:0:20e:a6ff:fe6f:2288 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298763248 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yes, because blanket life sentences are a great idea. < 1298763273 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote just because i'm homosexual / doesn't mean i have sex with men. / ...i'm also a paedophile < 1298763283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that is the most faily way to quote it ever < 1298763290 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :323) just because i'm homosexual / doesn't mean i have sex with men. / ...i'm also a paedophile < 1298763292 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :figured you say that < 1298763305 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the lamer thing would be to say three times < 1298763306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 323 < 1298763307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote just because i'm homosexual doesn't mean i have sex with men. ...i'm also a paedophile [...] see if i'm a gay paedophile i don't have sex with men i have sex with BOYS < 1298763308 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*poof* < 1298763310 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :324) just because i'm homosexual doesn't mean i have sex with men. ...i'm also a paedophile [...] see if i'm a gay paedophile i don't have sex with men i have sex with BOYS < 1298763318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 323 < 1298763320 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :323) just because i'm homosexual / doesn't mean i have sex with men. / ...i'm also a paedophile < 1298763323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 323 < 1298763324 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*poof* < 1298763333 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also all that extra stuff you added is irrelevant < 1298763339 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are really bad at quoting < 1298763392 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no the extra stuff makes it good, because the actual joke was really stupid < 1298763413 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, we don't want it to look like a joke < 1298763422 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we want the qdb to reflect that he is a gay paedophile < 1298763424 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1298763563 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the first joke i thought elliott was making was that he's so small masturbation is gay pedophilia < 1298763596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1298763607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how that makes no sense < 1298763623 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes perfect sense < 1298763631 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is far funnier than the actual joke < 1298763670 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote actually the first joke i thought elliott was making was that he's so small masturbation is gay pedophilia < 1298763672 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :331) actually the first joke i thought elliott was making was that he's so small masturbation is gay pedophilia < 1298763686 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :masturbation being gay is a very old joke, probably from the bible < 1298763713 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but the idea that he is so small he's childlike is a nice new spin < 1298763730 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 323 < 1298763731 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :323) <<<<<<< /tmp/hackenv.22235/quotes < 1298763739 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that even mean? < 1298763758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: well i am pretty damn tiny yes < 1298763759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also LOL < 1298763761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ^ < 1298763764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: the hg merge failed < 1298763767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the quotes file now has merging shit in it < 1298763768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 324 < 1298763769 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :324) <<<<<<< /tmp/hackenv.22235/quotes < 1298763771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 325 < 1298763772 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :325) ======= < 1298763773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 326 < 1298763774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 327 < 1298763774 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :326) just because i'm homosexual / doesn't mean i have sex with men. / ...i'm also a paedophile < 1298763774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 328 < 1298763776 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :327) ======= < 1298763776 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :328) >>>>>>> /tmp/quotes~other.jicWNf < 1298763779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bahahaha < 1298763787 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idgi < 1298763791 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 330 < 1298763792 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :330) >>>>>>> /tmp/quotes~other.XV8QqK < 1298763804 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 329 < 1298763804 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :329) just because i'm homosexual doesn't mean i have sex with men. ...i'm also a paedophile [...] see if i'm a gay paedophile i don't have sex with men i have sex with BOYS < 1298763812 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1298763817 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott explained already < 1298763818 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 323 < 1298763819 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*poof* < 1298763821 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 323 < 1298763822 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*poof* < 1298763824 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 323 < 1298763825 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*poof* < 1298763827 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 323 < 1298763831 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*poof* < 1298763834 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 323 < 1298763835 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :323) just because i'm homosexual / doesn't mean i have sex with men. / ...i'm also a paedophile < 1298763838 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 323 < 1298763839 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :323) just because i'm homosexual / doesn't mean i have sex with men. / ...i'm also a paedophile < 1298763841 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 323 < 1298763842 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*poof* < 1298763844 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 323 < 1298763845 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*poof* < 1298763853 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 323 < 1298763854 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :323) >>>>>>> /tmp/quotes~other.jicWNf < 1298763856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1298763860 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops < 1298763866 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one more i guess < 1298763867 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 323 < 1298763868 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :323) >>>>>>> /tmp/quotes~other.jicWNf < 1298763869 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 323 < 1298763871 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*poof* < 1298763873 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 323 < 1298763876 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :323) just because i'm homosexual doesn't mean i have sex with men. ...i'm also a paedophile [...] see if i'm a gay paedophile i don't have sex with men i have sex with BOYS < 1298763881 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 324 < 1298763882 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*poof* < 1298763887 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 324 < 1298763889 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :324) actually the first joke i thought elliott was making was that he's so small masturbation is gay pedophilia < 1298763893 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kk < 1298764051 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone in turku? i'd like some coke < 1298764085 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 325 < 1298764085 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1298764223 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you saying you didn't like those quotes? < 1298764228 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought they were great quotes. < 1298764229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: define coke < 1298764254 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1298764266 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to drink some meh.
< 1298764286 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FROM THIS MOMENT ON, EVERY TIME I SAY COKE I SHALL MEAN COCA COLA IN THE ONLY FUCKING SENSE OF THE WORD < 1298764297 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i decided to do it < 1298764376 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a fucking sense of "COCA COLA"? Some kind of sex act? < 1298764394 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, well, there is that myth that it's a contraceptive... < 1298764401 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl, so there is < 1298764405 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a mythbusters episode? < 1298764420 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1298764429 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they mentioned it in their cola myths episode. < 1298764430 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH WAIT < 1298764433 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE TOTALLY IS < 1298764436 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They tested it! < 1298764437 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but did they have sex < 1298764440 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? :D < 1298764440 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1298764448 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1298764449 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They mixed coke with sperm :P < 1298764452 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was Adam's. < 1298764455 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh. < 1298764462 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that proves nothing < 1298764478 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well, it does if the sperm survive. < 1298764480 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was always thought to be a spermicide, not some more general contraceptive. < 1298764556 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, did it work? < 1298764578 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, unless Adam's sperm are significantly less robust than average. < 1298764585 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, the sperm seemed to like the Coke :P < 1298764607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION injects coke into his testicles
< 1298764611 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've always wanted to make love in a tub full of coke < 1298764612 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They would, it's full of sugar. < 1298764624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1298764627 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1298764632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: "make love" WHAT DID YOU DO TO THE REAL OKLOPOL < 1298764641 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, are these the artistic differences that led to you and your girlfriend breaking up? < 1298764662 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i felt like it was the appropriate word for inserting penis in vagina in coke < 1298764677 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prince_Charles: yes, she prefers sprite < 1298764707 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The ONLY soft drink I will have sex with you in is Sprite!" "THEN WE'RE THROUGH!" < 1298764724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Seems like Coke's acidity, at least, would be a bit much. < 1298764729 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, we tried fanta, but that didn't work AT ALL. < 1298764758 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ISTR that there was a study showing that it is nearly useless as a spermicide < 1298764760 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(is fanta international?) < 1298764770 0 :Prince_Charles!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well, we have it here. < 1298764776 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote * elliott injects coke into his testicles < 1298764777 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i thought < 1298764777 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :325) * elliott injects coke into his testicles