= {P}{^R} < 1299071473 0 :nddrylliog!~nddryllio@gprs33.swisscom-mobile.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1299071486 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since ^R is something left cancelable (by L'()), we know that {^R} is deleted by ^. this means that

^:^ is P < 1299071516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, hmm < 1299071527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely you need L' to actually be there, in order for ^ to delete it? < 1299071566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, merely being left-cancellable isn't enough for something to be deleted by ^, you need the actual left-canceller to cancel it < 1299071567 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by ^R being left cancelable by L'() i mean that L'()^R is null < 1299071577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1299071589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I missed the braces around {^R} < 1299071611 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1299071613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so {^R}^ = null, {^R}:^ = ^R? < 1299071627 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1299071641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes,

^:^ == P < 1299071649 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and

:^ is null < 1299071725 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will be the "API" for running/deleting programs of the kind that are put on the stack. < 1299071736 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and inside translated quotes < 1299071736 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299071739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you now have ^:^ and :^ as a second set of booleans, which unfortunately aren't left-cancellable < 1299071746 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um yes they are < 1299071755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes they are < 1299071771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ending with : that makes something uncancellable < 1299071775 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1299071786 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the left, yeah < 1299071854 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i mentioned above, whenever LR is null, R is automatically equivalent to these left cancelable things < 1299071893 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or alternatively, my haskell program constructs cancelable blocks with R's of this form, anyway) < 1299071948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reminds me a bit of my 2,3 proof, actually; it has cancelling-out constructions as well < 1299071966 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1299071968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where it arranges sections of tape to cancel each other's effects out (although only for a finitely long length of time) < 1299072129 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we now have the API settled, so we can translate individual commands: ! -> ^:^, ^ -> ^^:^ and : -> : < 1299072365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now assuming we have recursively translated nested quoted programs, the quotes in the program will be cancelable solely from the right. < 1299072380 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by ^:^) < 1299072449 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ is cancelable from the left, as is :'s followed by ^. a : alone needs a combination. < 1299072451 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: used jmIrc < 1299072510 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we now split up a subprogram (with quotes already handled recursively) into blocks where each block is cancelable. < 1299072610 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P = QP1P2..Pn. QQ', LiPiRi being null. < 1299072643 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the special Q is just for a bit of efficiency.) < 1299072693 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha: "He also said that they understand that IPv6 is not ready because OS vendors have not implemented IPsec. Talk about a bozo filter..." (from NANOG list). < 1299072770 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now we define

= Q{P1}{:^P2}..{:^Pn}{^Rn()(^)...^R2()(^)^R1Q'} < 1299072779 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1299072807 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(n should be >= 1 btw, we can add a dummy P1 if needed.) < 1299072887 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this still obeys the same API as for a cancelable P < 1299072908 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait < 1299072934 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*and now we define

= Q{P1}{:^P2}..{:^Pn}{^Rn...^R2^R1Q'} < 1299072961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erroneously mixing in an L-part there :) < 1299073001 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and that's about it, i think < 1299073011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that seems a pretty good description < 1299073047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's both logical and beautifully non-obvious, and reveals something that seems moderately profound about programming < 1299073288 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each Pi block constructed by my program tends to be of the form :^::^^:(...)...(...), with : and ^ (and sometimes S) first and quotes last < 1299073349 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the quotes and half a final : cancel from the right, the ^'s and most of the :'s from the left < 1299073421 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and Q is just quotes, thus the name :D < 1299073431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I think that's provably the minimum Underload minimization < 1299073438 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1299073451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to go any lower/different, you'd need to change some of the commands < 1299073467 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you should ask elliott about that, he had some suggestions < 1299073718 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Viivan loppu. < 1299074259 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOOOOO < 1299074262 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOMALIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1299075769 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1299075838 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to figure out how to construct turing tape block in Pointer-B. What it needs to do is fairly simple. Coding it is another matter since it involves loading a number of numbers (oh, and the numbers needed depend on the amount of code loading other numbers, and sometimes also the number itself takes). < 1299075895 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299076103 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1299076621 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088172176.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1299076999 0 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299077529 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1299077843 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299077968 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1299078097 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g228061116.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1299078399 0 :azaq23!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1299078571 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the "selected Unicode character names" series today: U+1F192 SQUARED COOL. < 1299078578 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is, in fact, just the word "COOL" in a box.) < 1299078719 0 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1299078830 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1299078994 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I... what. < 1299079006 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, weather. < 1299079049 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1299079219 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.187.237 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299079220 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah. when did the topic thing happen? < 1299079257 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the next char is U+1F193 SQUARED FREE. < 1299079282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1299079393 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hmm. < 1299079408 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's SQUARED CL, COOL, FREE, ID, NEW, NG, OK, SOS, UP WITH EXCLAMATION MARK and VS. < 1299079448 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Not as good as LOVE HOTEL < 1299079452 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And SQUARE DJ, which is just DJ without the enclosing square. < 1299079494 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SQUARE DJ < 1299079500 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE IS NOTHING SADDER < 1299079571 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1299079873 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g228060128.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1299079915 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1299080004 0 :pumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1299080048 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-89.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1299080083 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1299080344 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1299080616 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1299080822 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1299080898 0 :cheater00!~cheater@e181132098.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1299081060 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1299081151 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299081376 0 :haze_skw!~chatzilla@182.8.219.105 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299081543 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@17.101.89.204 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299081543 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1299081543 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1299081633 0 :haze_skw!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1299081686 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1299081687 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299082123 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1299082375 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SKI in Eodermdrome: too trivial? < 1299082403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how you plan to do S, Eodermdrome is very bad at copying things < 1299082420 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, dammit, you're right... < 1299082443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's /possible/ due to being TC, bu doing it directly would be difficult < 1299082448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*but < 1299082484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the obvious way to copy data in Eodermdrome would be to unzip it DNA-style < 1299082492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might be quite interesting, actually < 1299082505 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DNA? < 1299082518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know how DNA is copied? < 1299082528 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, is it actually *necessary* to copy things? < 1299082531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most proteins in human cells have the same localish view of reality that Eodermdrome does < 1299082546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, it isn't, e.g. Minksy machines don't; but S copies things, or else shares them < 1299082549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sharing would be messy too < 1299082555 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1299082569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to work out which line was which < 1299082575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the basic problem of eodermdrome < 1299082599 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is? < 1299082610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to work out which connection is which < 1299082612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as nothing is labeled < 1299082623 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as nothing is labeled graph shapes as labels < 1299082640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1299082652 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1299082657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my client is screwing up again (due to stray touches on touchpads) < 1299082718 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION realises that sharing messes up subgraph detection.
< 1299082723 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, kind of. < 1299082824 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1299083020 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The DNA idea is interesting, though. < 1299083120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1299083125 0 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1299083232 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1299083280 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to redirect DNA-Sharp to MONOD, but suspects that this would not go down well with ais.
< 1299083300 0 :Slo912!pJIRCUser@173-165-64-75-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1299083326 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slo912, hmm, I haven't noticed you before... < 1299083669 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do we immediately jump all over anybody who joins :P < 1299083707 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we can see if they're corruptible to our insanity. < 1299083833 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1299084140 0 :Slo912!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Slo912 < 1299084311 0 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1299084663 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conclusion: Vorpal = Slo912. < 1299084714 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, err what? (note I have no scrollback. I just rebooted after a kernel upgrade) < 1299084756 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1299084788 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, where is elliott's logging bot btw? < 1299084800 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It died and he didn't bring it back. < 1299084808 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see < 1299084929 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm now on fancy 2.6.37.2 btw < 1299084947 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still seems like the same old world < 1299084948 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1299084973 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most importantly... Still no flying cars. < 1299085374 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299085606 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, elliott disappeared < 1299085931 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange. radvd randomly unconfigured itself. As in the config file was wrong. < 1299085937 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well time to track that down... < 1299085990 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see I think. Hm. < 1299086002 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(good thing I keep /etc in version control!) < 1299086044 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the package moved from aur to main distro repos. And the config file location changed. Right. < 1299086360 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299086703 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1299086847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : woah. when did the topic thing happen? < 1299086871 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been working on it for about the past week < 1299086919 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yesterday my conversion program was finished, so i could test the theory < 1299086944 0 :wetneb!~berthe@dan75-6-82-239-12-53.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1299086963 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wet nebs, the best kind of nebs < 1299086998 0 :wetneb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1299086998 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APNIC down 0.04: 8k to Bangladesh, 512k+2k+1k to Japan, 2x64k+2x1k+2x256 to Australia, 64k+2k to Indonesia, 4k to China. No IPv6 allocations. < 1299087019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: do you think APNIC's going to run out first? RIPE and ARIN have relatively scary burn rates too < 1299087092 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and sharing would be messy too < 1299087104 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it might still be more efficient than copying... < 1299087152 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might leak memory, i imagine < 1299087179 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-leakiness is not a requirement for TC :P < 1299087182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, you'd get detached bits of graphs < 1299087188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: we know Eodermdrome's TC anyway < 1299087221 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I hope those aren't even remotely as scary as APNIC. And I don't think those are. < 1299087265 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1299087269 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: although you might manage reference counting too... well if you can fit it within the 26 letters. < 1299087270 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1299087288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could count references in unary, but it'd still be nasty < 1299087296 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although hm, deleting something when reference count reaches 0 is probably as hard as that DNA zipping < 1299087301 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*unzipping < 1299087410 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, is the topic about the subset of underload that consists of :()^ ? < 1299087415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be more efficient though < 1299087421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm not oerjan, but yes < 1299087428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you're allowed to put things inside the parens < 1299087435 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err... < 1299087441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but just :, ^, and more parens < 1299087442 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, " woah. when did the topic thing happen?" " i've been working on it for about the past week" < 1299087459 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so that is what I responded to :P < 1299087521 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why do you expect me to ask you specifically? Or did you apologize for answering in his place? (Why would someone apologize for that?!) < 1299087541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/underload/minskyconv.ul and http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/underload/ULDisclaim2.hs < 1299087556 0 :pumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1299087566 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, mhm. < 1299087567 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one is a minsky machine example < 1299087574 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will look at those a bit later < 1299087608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I was apologising for answering in his place < 1299087609 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1299087618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I generally do that when answering a question specifically aimed at someone else < 1299087623 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also ais523 is the only one who has got a full explanation (unless you read the logs) so he is somewhat qualified < 1299087628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a "oerjan," at the start of the line < 1299087638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*an < 1299087657 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i _suppose_ others might have been reading too, but they didn't say so) < 1299087662 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1299087731 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1299087883 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181128004.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1299087913 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :December-February (90 days) current unreserved pool and linear estimate: RIPE NCC: 1.612/3.30 (184 days). ARIN: 0.947/4.19 (398 days). APNIC: 3.693/3.37 (82 days!) < 1299087945 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, that doesn't take panic and demand shifting into account. But APNIC is depleting far far faster than other RIRs. < 1299088008 0 :augur_!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299088017 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1299088018 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn that I can't get good figures about free pool size for any other RIR than APNIC. < 1299088131 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the errors in pool sizes are by far insufficient for it to really be even near. < 1299088200 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh jeeze. Peak oil is insanely close. < 1299088242 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Estimates start at the end of this year. < 1299088248 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure it even is in the future? < 1299088271 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, if it hasn't happened right about now. < 1299088273 0 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1299088276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is genuinely possible. < 1299088302 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit's going to get *baaaad*. < 1299088308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what definition of peak oil are you using, btw? < 1299088339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No further increase in oil production, and *likely* a begin in decrease of oil production. < 1299088358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are people really insane enough to rely on oil production /increases/? < 1299088358 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, start in decrease. < 1299088363 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: YES. < 1299088373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like the definition of a deficit, the amount of extra debt a country gets year on year < 1299088389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that the definition even exists is scary < 1299088392 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Keep in mind that much of the world-wide economic development has relied on increases in oil production. < 1299088414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is also scary < 1299088455 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1299088458 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If oil production begins to *decrease*, the US is going to have some *really* bad shit happening. < 1299088507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could start by increasing the price of oil to something sane < 1299088540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's held artificially high in the UK via taxes, which among other things means that a decrease in production, causing a price rise, could be at least partially absorbed by lowering taxes < 1299088544 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Political suicide. < 1299088580 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recall that Americans, as a whole, *depend* on oil being cheap. < 1299088587 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And whenever peak oil is/was one has to remember oil production (by almost any defintion) has been aproximately flat since 2004/2005. < 1299088613 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Ah, fuck, you're right. < 1299088641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this probably explains the rise of biodiesel in the US < 1299088652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there aren't many other explanations for it, as it seems to make not much economic sense < 1299088667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if it's a case of relaxing capacity issues on crude supply, there might be a reason for it < 1299088681 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And biofuels stuff is completely insane. The EROEI is just plain horrible. < 1299088691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can just conclude lobbyists or something for why it's done in such an insane way < 1299088711 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Corn subsidies weight the whole thing against sanity. < 1299088731 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember, the cost to produce corn is negative. < 1299088743 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And looks like the economy is now in oscillatory mode caused by hitting oil supply constraints... < 1299088792 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Actually, the severe oscillation can be more accurately blamed on unregulated finance. < 1299088806 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though oil isn't helping things any. < 1299088821 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course, the unrest in muslim countries doesn't help matters any. < 1299088847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall there was an oil price inflation just before the financial crisis hit < 1299088862 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the crisis sort of nullified it, iirc < 1299088863 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. The economic situation is the result of a whole *ton* of stupid decisions and just straight-up bad fortune. < 1299088882 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, push things to extreme and disasters happen. < 1299088887 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah, but it certainly didn't *cause* the financial crisis, even in the US. < 1299088925 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, i meant it the other way around, the financial crisis stopped it < 1299088939 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it seems to have put a temporary hold on it. < 1299088955 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though we're seeing the price of oil skyrocket again. < 1299088970 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what is it now? < 1299088971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, did the financial crisis actually hurt anyone, as in deaths, etc.? < 1299088976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did it just reduce quality of life? < 1299088992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: In the US, it certainly caused deaths. < 1299088992 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure there were _some_ suicides and stuff < 1299089013 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember, unemployment means no non-ER health care. < 1299089027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, the US health system is insane < 1299089031 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it pushed financial system to really really edge. And thus the massive bailouts. < 1299089041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :work or die < 1299089092 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oil is at about $100 a gallon. < 1299089096 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, barrel. < 1299089126 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_of_petroleum < 1299089133 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still a bit up to the top < 1299089290 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1299089468 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course, SAD (Standard American Diet) doesn't help things any. < 1299089547 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems that out of diets that aren't blantantly massively deficient, diets that rollercoaster blood sugar, resulting in massive snacking are the absolute worst. < 1299089622 0 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299089676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1299089677 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1299089678 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOMALIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1299089784 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever the diet, at least have a diet that one can follow and isn't blatantly deficient. Otherwise, you will end up snacking a lot, and those foods are the absolute worst. < 1299089801 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOMALIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1299089903 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loads of sugar, loads of industrial trans fats (yes, those do still exist), loads of "fat" that isn't even fat anymore and other bad-for-you stuff... < 1299090058 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOMALIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1299090074 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and apparently lots of that third group of trans fats (polyunsaturated non-conjugated trans fats), of which very little is known. < 1299090147 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that they're delicious. < 1299090175 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think those things even taste good. < 1299090274 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1299090278 0 :cheater00!~cheater@e181052131.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1299090379 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION turns back to the channel and away from his tub of Imitation Butter Flavr� polyunsaturated non-conjugated trans fat meal to disagree. Then curse Somalia.
< 1299090493 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :polly unsaturated, wants a cracker! < 1299090759 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reboot < 1299091046 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1299092481 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1299092862 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1299093256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1299093560 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1299093660 0 :cheater00!~cheater@e181128174.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1299093831 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299093847 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1299093852 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-180-246.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1299093933 0 :pumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1299094343 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1299094960 0 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1299095031 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1299095114 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299096362 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.181.62 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299096431 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my Statistics professor may be an idiot < 1299096437 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not sure, I want to ask in here < 1299096468 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, yes. < 1299096496 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a) you do, b) they are because only an idiot would voluntarily teach at a place called "Farmingdale". < 1299096535 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To quote the 8-ball: ALL SIGNS POINT TO YES. [Disclaimer: the earlier may not be construed as the opinion of me.] < 1299096543 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, problem: X represents how many times 1 appears on a fair die in 3 rolls < 1299096547 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll bet Farmingdale doesn't even have a better Poultry Sciences department than Purdue. < 1299096566 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I bet they just Farmville all the time. < 1299096575 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, yeah, but Purdue has poultry science facilities beyond the dreams of avarice. < 1299096592 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He proceeds to show the possibility (I forget the exact term) space as such: < 1299096594 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 1 1 < 1299096597 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 1 not1 < 1299096600 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1299096631 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh oh :P < 1299096638 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then says that the probability of P(0) = 1/8 < 1299096639 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"not 1" is a poor way to represent a fair die :P < 1299096639 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1299096658 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i'd be worried if the etc. doesn't include 1 not1 1 < 1299096667 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it does < 1299096677 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically he didn't say how many sides the die has. < 1299096684 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be a two-sided die (also known as a coin) < 1299096685 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok 1/8 is bad < 1299096703 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*very* bad. < 1299096737 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 1-(5/6)^3, which is trivial if you know any probability at all. < 1299096741 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He explains the discrepency between what the formula got and what he did there as the difference between "discrete" and "binomial" (I may have forgotten the exact term there) variables < 1299096753 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Number of 1s, not 1 appearing at all. < 1299096767 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: (Which is even more trivial) < 1299096776 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, oh. < 1299096777 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: um P(0) is (5/6)^3, no 1- < 1299096779 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, or maybe I misunderstood the question *shrugs* < 1299096794 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*P(X=0) < 1299096803 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh, right. < 1299096814 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's slightly more trivial. < 1299096820 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (5/6)**3 < 1299096821 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.5787037037037038 < 1299096838 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He says that the 1/8 is considering it as a discrete variable, and the formula as binomial < 1299096866 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, please inform him of this and that the disagreement is backed up by an unemployed mathematician, a programmer whose greatest achievement is a JS game and a 16-year-old. < 1299096869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess by his logic, P(X=3) = P(X=0) = 1/8? < 1299096883 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes < 1299096884 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, yes, he is an idiot, and a first-class one. < 1299096887 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: he is wrongly assuming uniformity of the two options he has made for each coin < 1299096912 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh, so now it *is* a coin? :p < 1299096915 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elementary mistake < 1299096919 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: whoops < 1299096920 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I ended up questioning that in the middle of class. Once as me just being confused, and once as me trying to explain why the answers were disagreeing < 1299096930 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, "elementary". < 1299096933 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*? < 1299096952 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He *thinks the sum of the probabilities on a dice roll are 3.* < 1299096957 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you should have made him a large bet :D < 1299096978 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, where did I say he thinks that? < 1299097022 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he is obviously forgetting that the binomial distribution has a parameter for the probability of the even you count < 1299097029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*event < 1299097052 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, "fair dice" and the fact that P(X) = P(¬X) → sum is 3. < 1299097052 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole "discrete"/"binomial" thing sounds rather confused too. < 1299097054 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it's not like he left that out of the formula he gave us... < 1299097109 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to him, (as a discrete variable), P(0) = 1/8, P(1) = 3/8, P(2) = 3/8, P(3) = 1/8 < 1299097122 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So no, that doesn't equal 3 < 1299097139 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, erm, I mean in terms of the sum of the die rolling each face. < 1299097142 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's of course correct for a coin. < 1299097190 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kept telling him that the possibility space he should be expanding the not1, so 1 1 not1 -> 1 1 2, 1 1 3, etc. And he kept saying that then it wouldn't be binomial < 1299097216 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: there is absolutely no need to expand the not1 if you know what you are doing, though < 1299097244 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just need to take into account that the probability of a single not1 is 5/6, not 1/2 < 1299097279 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any context in which his answers make sense? < 1299097286 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some weird phrasing of the question < 1299097288 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: a coin, i said < 1299097308 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides P(success)=1/2 < 1299097337 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A coin, the fairest of dice. < 1299097352 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, he just picked the stupidest example possible. < 1299097397 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, hmm? < 1299097412 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He was showing us with a coin on Monday. That wasn't what he wanted to illustrate < 1299097413 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, die rather than coin. < 1299097429 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, he wants to illustrate a binomial distribution. < 1299097439 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coin is the thing to choose there. < 1299097456 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the "wouldn't be binomial if you expand the not1" does sort-of make sense, since the binomial distribution is for the number of successes of yes/no Bernoulli trials. < 1299097457 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, in non-idiot news, I'm thinking of doing an Eodermdrome implementation. < 1299097496 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But still, you can't assume p=0.5 for those trials.) < 1299097567 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH. SOMALIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1299097640 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, do you still lust for libc.so? < 1299097647 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1299097657 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, somebody figured it out < 1299097663 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1299097675 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just been screaming "SOMALIAAAAAAAAAAA" all day wondering whether anybody would "get it" :P < 1299097698 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1299097714 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: WHAT? < 1299097726 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Are you offended by my quest for awesome domain names? < 1299097727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1299097776 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-176-130.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1299097776 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i was assuming you were talking about some news that somehow i never saw... < 1299097796 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was! < 1299097807 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean there was this danish family but i didn't think that would cause such a reaction. < 1299097833 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The news that the .so landrush is over, and they will be assigning domains within the previous 24 hours or so. < 1299097843 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1299097852 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In theory I may already own libc.so < 1299097857 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In practice I don't know. < 1299097862 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, wait, so they've got a government now? < 1299097872 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Not REALLY < 1299097873 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mainstream news, you dolt < 1299097901 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you just accuse Gregor of not knowing of a US President who resigned? < 1299097902 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: But the transitional government that controls about 1/4 of the capitol and a few other outposts is all about technology, so they got .so up and running :P < 1299097919 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what? < 1299097934 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ITYM "MONEY" < 1299097939 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I think Sgeo's little mind has snapped at last. < 1299097959 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: that would seem the only explanation. but didn't it do that long ago? < 1299097975 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snapped MORE. < 1299097982 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fark meme < 1299098005 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fark.com/comments/5351459/Michael-Savage-I-dont-know-of-an-American-president-whos-resigned < 1299098008 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am also totally disappointed at the lack of interest in my plans for an Eodermdrome implementations. < 1299098017 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Fine fine, but at least the money actually goes to Somalia, instead of some random company in the US or something. < 1299098038 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: The language is cursed: people always just talk about implementing it, but never do. (Did oklopol have an eodermdrome thing or how was it?) < 1299098052 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh, perhaps it's an ais thing < 1299098116 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: I thought about recommending the NAUTY library, because it has a silly name, but it seems that it's only really useful for full-graph isomorphism testing, not for the subgraph isomorphism problem. < 1299098157 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an algorithm for that, but I'm failing to understand it due to procrastination. < 1299098179 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an app for that. < 1299098230 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[2008-07-17 19:06:16] < oklopol> i implemented eodermdrome < 1299098233 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, oklopol had one. < 1299098241 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was horribly inefficient, though. < 1299098241 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: well it is NP-complete < 1299098261 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes, it is. < 1299098295 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although with subgraph size limited to 26, maybe it's not a problem. < 1299098328 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well that means it's in _principle_ only a P sub-problem.) < 1299098704 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1299098706 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The eodermdrome graphs-to-match-against-the-subgraphs-of-the-state-graph are also constant over the lifetime of the program, which might help in some algorithms if they happen to involve some preprocessing on them. (Can't say I've looked at subgraph isomorphism algorithms at all.) < 1299098769 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe there ought to be a "Planar Eodermdrome" variant when you want efficient code; I think it was an easier problem there. < 1299098939 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking that a variant where copying things was easy would be nice, but I'm not completely sure how to do that. < 1299098948 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps using ais' suggested method is better. < 1299099073 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1299099125 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1299099398 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.13/20101203075014] < 1299099481 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to me that defining what to copy gets awkward when the graph isn't acyclic < 1299099661 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm? I was thinking simply that there would be a mechanism for having a closed node appear twice in the replacement subgraph, and then deleting the original subgraph except for that node, then building the replacement for the whole graph from two such components and the rest of the replacement subgraph. < 1299099705 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, the component is the set of vertices reachable from the duplicated node when the rest of the match subgraph is deleted. < 1299099725 0 :pumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1299099801 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@17.101.89.204 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299099801 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1299099801 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1299099809 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that's not *that* simple. < 1299099837 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1299099865 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it seemed the most natural way to do it. < 1299099869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The coincidentalism is astounding: you start talking about eodermdrome, and at the same time an ad for "An excursion into algebraic tools for combinatorial problems" seminar -- which seems to be mostly about graph-related combinatorics -- drops into my INBOX. < 1299099888 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SYNCHRONICITY < 1299099909 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SYN, Chron... I, city? < 1299099919 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ct < 1299099920 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) < 1299099932 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: The sword alone can't stop! < 1299099932 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: like, thanks princess. i'll take that under advisement!! < 1299099949 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That bot needs to learn some manners. < 1299099986 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey fizzie is _so_ a princess name < 1299100097 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it would be short for fizzonica or something, but still < 1299100168 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.181.62 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299100181 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Princess Fizzonica of Carbonium < 1299100225 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Disney Pretty Princess Fizzie Macic Wand Gift Set ( Fizzie Wand, 15 Tnted Bath Fizzies, Body Wash and Body Lotion )" (amazon.com) < 1299100265 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tnt'ed bath fizzies, sounds dangerous < 1299100289 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1299100318 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the "X-treem" bathers, for which the usual bath salts and the like are too tame. < 1299100362 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their bath salts are just sodium, no chlorine. < 1299100371 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assalt and bathery < 1299100382 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... ow < 1299100383 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brain. < 1299100386 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ass-salt, ew. < 1299100398 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, http://www.alilg.com/arcade-games/Fizzie-15731.html "Game description: Simple, fun and addictive, the goal is simply to maneuver Fizzie around the screen and capture the rising bubbles." I seem to be... quite spiky. < 1299100399 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1299100415 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me who hates "CE"? < 1299100422 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Click the mouse button to make Fizzie go Move the mouse around, and Fizzie will follow the cursor Holding the mouse button down and aiming the cursor towards a bubble is a great way to get Fizzie to catch the bubble Avoid the red enemies" < 1299100436 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I tend to have this urge to follow the cursor around. < 1299100443 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows CE? < 1299100453 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, instead of "AD". < 1299100458 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed he means CE certification. < 1299100458 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh :P < 1299100483 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :christianity evasion < 1299100536 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The CE/BCE pair is not as nice as AD/BC, since the lengths differ. < 1299100638 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should just use a single number starting from the big bang. DONE. Also, relativity be damned. < 1299100653 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the Kelvin of time :P < 1299100667 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Kelvin of time" is a great phrase. < 1299100793 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given current estimates, we should be able to choose a starting year within 110 million years. We could "conveniently" choose one that ends in 2011 < 1299100876 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, that is the best idea ever. < 1299100887 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From now on it is the date system I am going to use. < 1299100977 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also forget the whole year/month/day nonsense, maybe? Just seconds (it's the SI unit of time) since the big bang. < 1299101116 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1299101142 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a person who lives on Earth, I have certain reasons to desire the use of years :P < 1299101145 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And days < 1299101147 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Months are garbage < 1299101185 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goal: deprecate all legacy date formats by 2020... uh, I mean, let's say provisionally by 433620000000000000, give and take a few million "old-style years" depending on what the authorities will set the start time at. < 1299101264 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seconds are too small for most time scales, but it seems well chosen for the shortest timespan since it's easy for humans to approximate < 1299101416 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 433620000000000000/86400/365.2425 < 1299101417 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.3740870791323572e10 < 1299101489 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It was done with the 365-day approximation, sorry about that. Still, it falls in the 13.75 ± 0.11 range, anyway. < 1299101501 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The microfortnight, for when the seconds are almost suitable but just a bit too short. < 1299101503 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1299101606 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who ever figured KDE4 was a good move? < 1299101664 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :white king captures black queen on E4 < 1299101674 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like a pretty good move to me < 1299101692 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the notation is a _little_ off, i think < 1299101695 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, NIST got around publishing paper about SHA-3 finalists selection... Finally. < 1299101722 0 :wetneb!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1299101778 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can a king ever capture a queen < 1299101788 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk, yes, if the queen was moved by an idiot. < 1299101803 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternately someone who really knew what they were doing, but more probably an idiot. < 1299101868 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah right, you can basically force the king to eat the queen, and then checkmate him, in some circumstances, but I'd consider that a checkmate by the point the queen threatens him already < 1299101981 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1387595 -- here's a king-captures-the-queen game, courteously provided by Google, fed through an onerous Javapplet. < 1299102085 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I was hoping to find some sort of a number as to how often that happens in "real" chess games.) < 1299103065 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@17.101.89.204 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299103071 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1299103072 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1299103170 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1299103405 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1299103435 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1299103789 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1299103981 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1299104030 0 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1299104031 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1299104211 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1299104236 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1299104267 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1299105164 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/fvvd4/iama_member_of_congress_rep_john_garamendi_dca_ama/ < 1299105185 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that looks legit. < 1299105642 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1299105704 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :q: is it true that you've been bribed into secrecy? < 1299105986 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1299106084 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1299106345 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1299106347 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1299106469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:54:45 Don't anyone tell elliott this, but there's a lot of atrocious handwriting in Japan. < 1299106480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: my handwriting is that of a 3 year old < 1299106519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: re somalia < 1299106523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"US looking at new moves on Somalia piracy-Clinton‎" < 1299106531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT HOW WILL THEY GET THEIR MUSIC AND SOFTWARE < 1299106651 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the other form of piracy. < 1299106661 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1299106803 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1299106919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:06:46 hmm, elliott disappeared < 1299106921 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1299106926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: don't worry, i came back < 1299106932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you wish to consult me on, pilgrim? < 1299106998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:40:57 (i _suppose_ others might have been reading too, but they didn't say so) < 1299106998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was, hours later! < 1299107007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my future self was with you during that explanation. < 1299107133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:03:47 oh right, the US health system is insane < 1299107133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:04:01 work or die < 1299107137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it's not a bug, it's a feature!" < 1299107156 0 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-8-156.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1299107233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Gregor, yeah, but Purdue has poultry science facilities beyond the dreams of avarice. < 1299107243 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :328) Gregor, yeah, but Purdue has poultry science facilities beyond the dreams of avarice. < 1299107299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:14:26 Sgeo, please inform him of this and that the disagreement is backed up by an unemployed mathematician, a programmer whose greatest achievement is a JS game and a 16-year-old. < 1299107304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :together, they fight crime! < 1299107319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:14:47 Sgeo: he is wrongly assuming uniformity of the two options he has made for each coin < 1299107319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:15:12 oerjan: Oh, so now it *is* a coin? :p < 1299107322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, those pesky six-sided coins! < 1299107336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:15:57 Sgeo: you should have made him a large bet :D < 1299107336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1299107373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:23:33 Sgeo, die rather than coin. < 1299107373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COMMUNISM OR DEATH < 1299107444 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1299107488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:05:32 fungot: The sword alone can't stop! < 1299107489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:05:32 fizzie: like, thanks princess. i'll take that under advisement!! < 1299107489 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! geez! i see you're dressing...normally again!? you're joking!? < 1299107489 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there! there it is! but by the time we're through with you, you'll be in danger. open hatch. < 1299107489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1299107495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: *That sword, btw < 1299107503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least if i remember my fungot correctly. < 1299107503 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop, crono! < 1299107546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:13:18 Hah, http://www.alilg.com/arcade-games/Fizzie-15731.html "Game description: Simple, fun and addictive, the goal is simply to maneuver Fizzie around the screen and capture the rising bubbles." I seem to be... quite spiky. < 1299107554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no, that's Fizzie; you're obviously fizzie. < 1299107579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:13:35 Is it just me who hates "CE"? < 1299107579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:14:13 No, instead of "AD". < 1299107579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY'RE TAKIN' OOR CHRISTIANITY < 1299107662 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1299107698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:41:44 q: is it true that you've been bribed into secrecy? < 1299107698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what. < 1299107736 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the government is clearly involved in a conspiracy < 1299107745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: No, it's not. < 1299107759 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: proof < 1299107776 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1299107776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Burden of proof is on you; you are the one making the extraordinary claim. < 1299107778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where is your proof? < 1299107809 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it is more likely for a conspiracy to exist than for one not to exist < 1299107814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: By what evidence? < 1299107870 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: by the evidence that conspiracies are common < 1299107888 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as evidenced by the internet < 1299107892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: What is your evidence for that? And how does it generalise to the fact that the US government is *huge* and not exactly centralised? < 1299107896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what exactly is this conspiracy's goals? < 1299107920 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know that much about the conspiracy; just that it exists < 1299108012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: I don't know why I keep humouring you by prodding your inane assertions with requests for clarifications, you're clearly an idiot who tries to appear intellectual by spouting unsubstantiated bullshit. < 1299108028 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: obviously. < 1299108055 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1299108069 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is #esoteric after all < 1299108088 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1299108107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure the conspiracy is to cover up how powerful term rewriting is. < 1299108362 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1299108646 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1299108684 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1299108692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hundred = one drop sun. WELL DUHHH < 1299109415 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sees insane people
< 1299109418 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing out of the ordinary. < 1299109730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really get the strong feeling that math education's ordering is based on when things were first discovered, rather than anything that makes sense at all. < 1299109744 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On up through post-secondary. < 1299109851 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can anyone give me a rationale for defining many different objects and reïterating, except much more tediously, that they form a group, a monoid, a field, etc., before teaching those damned concepts? < 1299109857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone at all? < 1299109902 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An advocate of New Math, then? < 1299109910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Not *quite*. < 1299109974 0 :shachaf!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1299109980 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@208.69.183.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299109998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That Tae Kim fellow doesn't appear to like Remembering the Kanji < 1299110003 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But there is no damned reason to teach these after you're already dealing with the concept of freaking vector spaces. < 1299110020 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he seems to misunderstand RTK. < 1299110031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: CLEARLY HE IS A MORON < 1299110057 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, his conception of RTK seems to be defined by some of the morons who have started on RTK. < 1299110061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the problem with new math was that it wasn't preceded by New Logic and English wasn't eliminated and ;D < 1299110076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok new math was probably a legitimately bad idea, but i'm aaaall for teaching useless theory to 3 year olds) < 1299110104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I hope this ranks #1 in google for “Heisig douche bag” (Updated)" < 1299110106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guy has class < 1299110108 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Some people actually think that finishing RTK will get you full, complete literacy. < 1299110139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Even so, after over 50 comments, nobody has stepped forth and met my challenge by saying, “Yes, I can write whole words and sentences like a native using his methods.”" < 1299110145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o ya, i forgot the part in the preface where he was all like < 1299110151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you know all the kanji (all of them) < 1299110155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will be able to WRITE SENTENCES!! < 1299110158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PERFECTLY!!!! < 1299110170 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When really, all it will do is make kanji not a barrier to entry. < 1299110194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[If that’s not enough to incite you into commenting, here some more fodder. < 1299110194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it’s better to teach casual Japanese before polite Japanese. It sounds crazy I know, but first of all, it’s how all native speakers started out as kids so it can’t be that bad. Second, it’s much more useful grammatically and socially if you’re in high school or college. Finally, I worked at one of the largest, oldest, and most traditional Japanese companies in Tokyo and “business Japanese” was just putting “desu” and “ < 1299110194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :masu” at the end of every sentence. The rest is knowing phrases like 「いつもお世話になっております」, honorific/humble, and vocabulary that’s too difficult for beginners anyway.]] < 1299110199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err does heisig actually contradict that < 1299110203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is he just trying to get people to flame < 1299110212 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Heisig doesn't ever claim that at all. < 1299110224 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, doesn't contradict it at all. < 1299110243 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall some interviews with Heisig saying that his further Japanese learning involved comics and talking with kids. < 1299110257 0 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1299110258 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which suggests that he first learned casual Japanese. :P < 1299110318 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yeah, Tae Kim seems to be trolling there. < 1299110331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hmm, do comics et al (SHUT UP I KNOW IT'S "ETC", "ET AL" IS NICER) not use the politeness crap? < 1299110356 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Manga and anime in particular are much less likely to use the politeness crap. < 1299110359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rite < 1299110387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what about like, novels