< 1299975053 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g230231122.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1299975232 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1299975811 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has done TOO MUCH on the wiki today.
< 1299975820 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1299976183 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1299976552 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1299976750 0 :GregorOpMonger!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1299976919 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iconmaster: you might perhaps maybe consider possibly investing in a spell checker. just saying. < 1299976984 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you forget? (Or did I forget?) < 1299977002 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what? < 1299977088 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1299977113 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are many computer programs that parse algebraic chess notation. But I don't know how many are done with typesetting systems. < 1299977243 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you prefer descriptive notation or algebraic? < 1299977249 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or morse code chess notation? < 1299977262 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How often is chess played over morse code? < 1299977291 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1299977385 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How often is chess played by telephone? < 1299977411 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How often by mail? < 1299977474 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1299977474 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-247-226.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1299977525 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess (non e-) mail chess is rarer these days < 1299977540 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back in the 80's it was all the rage < 1299977559 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my dad was an avid player) < 1299977611 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people like to play chess on the order of "hours" instead of "months" < 1299977650 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall a children's story in which they played chess over the telephone. the kicker was that at the end it turned out the sweet lady on the other side was ... on the other side. < 1299977683 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a slow game too, only one move per call < 1299977686 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where the grass is always greener. < 1299977771 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intertwined with a crime mystery < 1299977895 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: he played chess on the order of "hours" too. probably very different, with mail you could do all kinds of literature lookup. mind you this was before the web and before computers became all-powerful in chess. < 1299977925 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN A TIME BEFORE COMPUTERS < 1299977929 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(were major in Chess) < 1299977954 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I guess I should start writing articles on a spell-checked text editor BEFORE submitting it... That would work. < 1299977970 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: And thank you for putting up with my spelling errors. < 1299977990 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iconmaster: i nearly always compose longer pieces in vim even if i'm a reasonably good speller < 1299978014 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one thing it guards against those annoying timeouts < 1299978020 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should do that. < 1299978023 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course if you have a sufficiently powerful computer, it can always win at chess (if programmed correctly). < 1299978043 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same with Go, although an even more powerful computer would be required, way more powerful. < 1299978074 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No computer will ever be good at Rock-Paper-Scissors, though. < 1299978076 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/always win/always win or stalemate/ < 1299978112 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: a computer can be _perfect_ at rock-paper-scissors, if it has a perfect random number generator. < 1299978142 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Then your definition of "perfect" is sorely lacking :P < 1299978149 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect in the sense of game theory, that is < 1299978164 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, possibly stalemate too. Although if they make such a computer they might figure out solving it entirely whether black or white has an advantage, and if so, how much. < 1299978172 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok maybe not perfect in taking advantage of inferior players < 1299978193 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Sure, but the generalization has to allow for stalemate, since not all games will have a distinct sidedness. < 1299978213 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, I did consider that, too. < 1299978224 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION recalls there was a game, hm let me look it up...
< 1299978266 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hex_(board_game) < 1299978289 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's always a win for the first player, this can be proven despite no one knowing what the winning strategy _is_ < 1299978358 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They tried to build computer to win at Rock-Paper-Scissors tournament, but then they realize it is impossible. There are a lot of players in the tournament and some are really good at it, so they will beat the other players, and so on. So the computer has a very small chance of possibly winning the tournament. At a single game though, with perfect random number generator, the computer expect to win 50% regardless of their opponent's plays. < 1299978434 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Playing at random is called chaos play. The official strategy guide labels the difficulty of the chaos play strategy to be infinite. < 1299978456 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not only is it infinitely difficult, but you cannot expect to win more than 50%.) < 1299978492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: aha so the computer can lose a "hill" even if doesn't really lose against any single player < 1299978514 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, like that. < 1299978560 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1299978582 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At a game like backgammon, a sufficiently powerful computer cannot always win, but it might be able to win a very large amount of the time (I do not know what the maximal probability of winning backgammon is with best strategy). < 1299978719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, one could build a rock-paper-scissors computer that would be better than a human. < 1299978725 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Humans have a tendency to choose scissors. < 1299978742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that it would *win*, but it would be *better*. < 1299978751 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray, averages. < 1299978787 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not better against a good player. < 1299978833 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But perhaps better than bad players. < 1299978930 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have also read rules of a chess variant for SCA, that uses dice. Most of the pieces do not move very far. On each turn you roll two dice and the number tells you what kind of pieces you are allowed to move. < 1299978987 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The knights (which are the same as FIDE chess) are the only ones that are allowed to move more than one space (and are forced to move more than one space). < 1299979018 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want an omega chess set < 1299979208 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Do you know where to buy it? < 1299979228 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a shogi set. < 1299979258 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it isn't very good because the board is paper. The pieces are OK, though. < 1299979353 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I haven't seen an omega chess set in a brick-and-mortar store < 1299979356 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even the Sentry Box < 1299979360 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/wiki/N-in-a-row%20game Vague musings on an unsolvable game. < 1299979404 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bgg appears to be down right now < 1299979502 0 :augur!~augur@pool-173-73-127-19.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1299979550 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ALLAGUF? < 1299979645 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what Infinity Chess is like to play
< 1299979683 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no such thing as infinity chess < 1299979695 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen a chess problem that says "checkmate in infinity plus fifteen". < 1299979719 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, as in.. < 1299979760 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah < 1299979777 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The board looks like the infinity symbol, except one of the loops is smaller than the other < 1299979781 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so omega chess isn't infinite chess? < 1299979821 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The name reminded me of it < 1299979837 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checkmate in omega plus fifteen would be a perfectly reasonable thing then... < 1299979838 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chess variants does not have it < 1299979880 0 :cpressey!~cpressey@63.133.138.10 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299979911 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess if i want to announce something, using the topic of this channel isn't a good option, huh < 1299979928 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, is there a weird boards category of chess variants? < 1299979931 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Just announce it as a normal message at first. < 1299979971 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well, i don't have anything -- yet. i was just figuring, it'll only stay up for a short time, then optbot will trample it < 1299979971 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it's unfinished, although finished to the point that you can consider it a very buggy finished product as opposed to an unfinished one < 1299979988 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will have something -- soon < 1299979996 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but haven't been able to do much while at pycon < 1299980038 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: What is it, though? Once you do it, just type something about it to the channel if you want opinion or whatever. < 1299980051 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a surprise :) < 1299980075 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Wikipedia page for Chess variant has it < 1299980076 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1299980084 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: we _could_ set the channel +t for a while, i guess... < 1299980094 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's important < 1299980102 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: No, I think that is not necessary; just announce it normally. < 1299980102 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what would that do? < 1299980110 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: prevent topic changes < 1299980115 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/32793/infinite-chess < 1299980117 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even announce in topic message if you want but of course someone can change it < 1299980120 0 :cpressey1!~cpressey@63.133.138.10 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299980128 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That has to be it, although I remember it looking a bit different < 1299980137 0 :cpressey1!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1299980140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the thing is now optbot changes the topic automatically every six hours < 1299980140 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: haha < 1299980144 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I can't connect to bgg for whatever reason < 1299980146 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.colebank.com/ichess/index.asp < 1299980146 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this channel is locked to -t though < 1299980157 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Experiencing God" < 1299980163 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think you should remove that function from optbot and have people change it manually. < 1299980163 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: elliott_, I know I don't have any < 1299980167 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i'm sure there's some chanserv command to change that < 1299980180 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's not my bot < 1299980184 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes there is some command to change mode locks if you are the owner of this channel. < 1299980197 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But otherwise it is locked to +nc-mst and you cannot change that. < 1299980206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm must one be founder? < 1299980209 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Then who is it? < 1299980212 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1299980226 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, ^ < 1299980244 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "Experiencing God" thing is not what I linked to, it's just another page on the same site < 1299980295 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a category for chess game with different shape boards http://www.chessvariants.org/index/mainquery.php?type=Game&category=Shape&startswithletter=&language=English&daysyoung=0&daysold=0&minyearinvented=&maxyearinvented=&boardrows=0&boardcols=0&boardlevels=0&boardcells=0&authorid=&inventorid=&orderby=LinkText&usethisheading=Game+with+different+shape+boards&displayauthor=on&displayinventor=on®expurl=®explinktext= < 1299980321 0 :amca!~amca@CPE-121-208-84-154.cqzr1.cha.bigpond.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1299980358 0 :augur!~augur@pool-173-73-127-19.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1299980408 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GodChess < 1299980442 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, isn't there a ST:TNG episode with Q that has something like that...? probably not < 1299980454 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What icons should I add in chess font? There is enough for 63 different kind of pieces, and I already have all 6 FIDE pieces, as well as: circle, vizier, firzan, inverted rook, crescent moon, amazon, knight rider. < 1299980459 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is an episode of Dr Who with eternal-type beings in a boat race though < 1299980475 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Doctor Who < 1299980482 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Gregor will yet at me < 1299980487 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b/c he has nothing better to do < 1299980505 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: What is GodChess? < 1299980588 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i don't know. i just randomly put together words that seemed to be coming from Sgeo's direction < 1299980628 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: If there is no game like that, then invent a game like that. < 1299980642 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, keep doing that, and we may have to put you into an Asylum build system. < 1299980673 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+t < 1299980682 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1299980687 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-t < 1299980691 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coming up with the name is the first step to inventing it, but i invite anyone who might be more intrigued with the concept to do so < 1299980706 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still say it was an episode of ST:TNG with Q, or should have been < 1299980721 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: apparently i have enough permissions for changing mode lock < 1299980722 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course he would have used the Enterprise as an, uh, pawn < 1299980725 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I know how to invent chess variants, but you can make some ideas about it too. < 1299980754 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yell < 1299980764 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, maybe you do, but I still think you shouldn't. Instead you should tell whoever programmed optbot to change the frequency of topic message changes to one week instead of six hours. < 1299980764 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: seriously? that is the ugliest thing ever < 1299980765 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(s/yet/yell) < 1299980769 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, i'm tired < 1299980790 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: optbot does NOT approve of your suggestions. < 1299980790 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yay < 1299980799 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, no. Not one week. Set it to 24 hours after the last change. < 1299980814 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or change only the part after the last | < 1299980821 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i can insert something < 1299980833 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, not every 24 hours, but 24 hours after the last change, but 1 minute if the log URL is missing. < 1299980876 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: That is another possibility, I guess. < 1299980906 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: one week would sort of remove the fun of it. maybe elliott could put some command in to let people change what optbot puts before its own part < 1299980906 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you don't happen to have an escape character for inserting controls now? < 1299980913 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: What do you mean is the ugliest thing ever? < 1299980913 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The question is not "do I need (s+n)?", it's "can I make GGGGGGGGGGGGC support (s+n)?". < 1299980929 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I know one week is too long, which is why I almost immediately took back that suggestion. < 1299981008 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a certain amount of time *after the last change* is better, perhaps 24 hours is good. < 1299981073 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: i hate technology < 1299981073 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I like how [[Offended]] starts with cute rabbit pictures < 1299981105 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all rabbit pictures are cute rabbit pictures < 1299981120 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well as of now i think optbot doesn't actually look at topic changes other than its own, it could do all sorts of things once it can do that < 1299981121 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, many are, but there's plenty of finite ones as well < 1299981147 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess, unless the rabbits in question are dead. they used to test pregnancy that way somehow, i ought to figure out exactly how someday < 1299981178 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: myxomatosis. < 1299981259 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok, good first step. but the wikipedia article on it says bubkis about pregnancy, human or otherwise, so i'm still wondering what the connection is < 1299981287 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it was a counterresponse to "all rabbit pictures are cute rabbit pictures" < 1299981309 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh. then: s/dead/dead or sick/ < 1299981312 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check snopes? < 1299981348 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh you mean like http://www.snopes.com/pregnant/rabbit.asp < 1299981351 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have invented many chess variants. < 1299981393 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snopes seems to have wacked my browser. thanks snopes < 1299981477 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :page explains it though. < 1299981496 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have invented no chess variants < 1299981498 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1299981508 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :start with chess, remove the bishops. < 1299981512 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go. < 1299981516 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atheist chess < 1299981517 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have invented a chess variant < 1299981529 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yes it does that to me too. Turn off plugins, javascript, images, metarefresh, and subdocuments, and so on, and select printer friendly pages. Now it works much better. < 1299981545 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: You are not the only one to have invented that variant. < 1299981564 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drat. oh well < 1299981572 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, turn on meta refresh. < 1299981701 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I was a kid, I saw kids in the before-school YMCA try a variant: Chess without pawns < 1299981708 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when a pawn reaches the other side of the board, it is removed from the board for a number of turns chosen by the player. after a wait of one turn it can return as a knight, two turns a bishop, three turns a rook, or four turns a queen < 1299981729 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less likely someone else has invented that (relatively minor) variant < 1299981781 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about "pawns move like rooks" < 1299981867 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or how about "bishops can self-destruct, destroying that square on the board (no other piece can ever move into or over that square)" < 1299981872 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe knights could move over < 1299981883 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i recall this variant with only pawns and king... < 1299981906 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall that as some kind of end-game thing < 1299981926 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, a computer program for playing it < 1299981936 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you're thinking, like, all eight pawns < 1299981956 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it was all eight < 1299981966 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, then that's new to me < 1299981982 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot find it again, because the obvious name for it happens to be the _actual_ norwegian for tic-tac-toe < 1299982023 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may have been just in some chess book < 1299982066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(norwegian for tic-tac-toe is "bondesjakk" which directly translates to pawn chess) < 1299982138 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's... rather trumped up < 1299982178 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, for checkers, maybe, ok < 1299982183 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but tic-tac-toe? < 1299982227 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, what do you call a tie in tic-tac-toe, in norwegian? < 1299982238 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a tie meaning, a draw, a stalemate) < 1299982240 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it's a bit ambiguous between three-in-a-row or five-and-row games < 1299982241 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Not farmer's chess? < 1299982252 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: um well that too < 1299982267 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say it's specifically that :-P < 1299982268 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pawn and farmer are both "bonde" in norwegian < 1299982285 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :peon, peasant, prole < 1299982339 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like Finnish "jätkänšakki"; I think it's just being derogatory about these people who play tic-tac-toe instead of chess < 1299982363 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes some sense < 1299982403 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i don't know if there's a specific word for tie in tic-tac-toe in norwegian < 1299982421 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. there is a specific phrase in english, is why i asked < 1299982425 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cat's game" < 1299982425 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the usual word would be "uavgjort", although in chess it's "remis" < 1299982548 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checkers is "dam" in norwegian, although chinese checkers is "kinasjakk" < 1299982568 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is because chinese checkers is a different game. < 1299982586 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then there's turkish draughts < 1299982604 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, but it's also not similar to chess, which the norwegian name would imply < 1299982622 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/44/messages/373.html <-- various entertaining theories on the origins of "cat's game" < 1299982739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf happened to the style of norwegian wikipedia < 1299982777 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're asking the wrong person < 1299982778 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's distressing < 1299982783 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're asking me < 1299982785 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i can go look < 1299982790 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1299982808 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, can't help you. looks like wikipedia to me < 1299982819 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except in norwegian (I think) < 1299982828 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1299982835 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was only that one page < 1299982848 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar to what cheater00 experienced the other day < 1299982859 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except shift-reload did _not_ fix it for me < 1299982860 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-149-34.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1299982869 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1299982873 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Janis Joplin (1943–1970) var ein amerikansk songar, låtskrivar og musikalsk arrangør." < 1299982901 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiangqi looks horrendous to me < 1299982922 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup, no css, or similar < 1299982944 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i reloaded, and it appeared < 1299982944 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so that looks bad for you too? < 1299982954 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first time, it did: missing stylesheet < 1299982966 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctrl+shift+r fixed it < 1299982983 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah now it finally loaded right < 1299983000 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, you here? < 1299983011 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am _sure_ i tried crtl+shift+reload once before < 1299983013 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or anyone else somewhat capable of reading Japanese? < 1299983015 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ctrl < 1299983023 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can someone say what http://i.imgur.com/fT4Wm.png says? < 1299983043 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the css is coming from a PHP script on a server called bits.wikimedia.org. probably this is new, and less reliable than a static file. i'm guessing < 1299983057 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1299983077 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, knee-jerk troubleshooting reaction < 1299983087 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i work at a place that makes websites < 1299983087 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That looks like Chinese < 1299983167 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what is this < 1299983181 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, an error I gt < 1299983197 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know of no special Chinese or Japanese programs on my computer. < 1299983211 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i would be totally freaked out, then < 1299983225 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you run any sort of spyware and/or virus checker? < 1299983228 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I kind of am reaked out a bit < 1299983249 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i would suggest trying to copy and paste that title bar into google translate... < 1299983250 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That is definitely not Japanese. < 1299983257 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know someone who can read chinese, and I can ask him, but I won't see him until tomorrow < 1299983259 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's already closed < 1299983271 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't think it was possible to copy-paste from title bars < 1299983284 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there's something that will let you OCR chinese characters online... < 1299983287 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks to be Chinese, either Hong Kong or Taiwan-origin. < 1299983313 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ok maybe it isn't possible < 1299983351 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you can find some copyable program listing somewhere... < 1299983454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm if you interpreted random bytes as unicode, what is the chance that the result would look chinese... < 1299983517 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except i see some repeated characters in there < 1299983524 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :High < 1299983540 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the two ones after the dots < 1299983545 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you picked humans at random, which is the chance they would be chinese < 1299983547 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Binary data in UTF-16 often looks like Chinese < 1299983549 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*what < 1299983571 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is googlecodesamples.com genuine Google? < 1299983583 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOT likes it, but I see no other indication that it's safe < 1299983595 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is one character that looks non-chinese there... sort of like "s?" < 1299983676 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: try googling "googlecodesamples.com" -- if google owned it, do you think its result would look like that? < 1299983692 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"LIVE! Google Code Samples < 1299983694 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Server Clock: Server-Sent Events, , PHP [source]; Offline eBook Reader: Google Chrome Background App feature, AppCache, Server-Sent Events, ..." < 1299983706 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems very non-googly to me < 1299983714 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTE EVERYONE: creat@libc.so is STILL AVAILABLE! Donate now and you could be creat@libc.so! < 1299983737 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you should totally announce that in the topic < 1299983754 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not Google owned < 1299983764 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it looks like its code is online. Supposedly. < 1299983783 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/m < 1299983804 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Donate to the Gregoran Somalian Relief Fund, and help Gregor buy libc.so! | Benefits of donation include a vanity @libc.so email address if I win (and a full refund if I don't); creat@libc.so is still available! | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ < 1299983868 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: he fell for it! < 1299983868 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: iirc < 1299983980 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Gemooy has an instruction pointer and a data pointer both pointing into the same playfield. i want a language like that, with two pointers into the playfield, but neither is "instruction" or "data", instead they... share those responsibilities equally. < 1299983984 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is exit@libc.so still available? What about system? < 1299983989 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1299983994 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck off, Sgeo_ < 1299983998 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Both < 1299984017 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually only malloc, free and fork are explicitly taken, everybody else who's donated has said "I'll choose later durpadurp" < 1299984021 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about cpressey@libc.so? OMG SO MISSING THE POINT < 1299984033 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i find references on this google page: http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/apps-apis/thread?tid=215415e044109197&hl=en < 1299984076 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it may be official < 1299984082 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1299984091 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: No, but memcpy and strcpy are available, and both have "cp" in them :P < 1299984128 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least officially tolerated < 1299984135 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh come on. I write a lengthy quit message, and Freenode nurfs it? < 1299984165 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because everyone wants some cp < 1299984190 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you have to be logged on for a certain time before quit messages show < 1299984203 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1299984213 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: do a whois googlecodesamples.com < 1299984232 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's registered by proxy < 1299984244 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not an encouraging sign < 1299984272 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too late < 1299984280 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At any rate, lemme just revoke access < 1299984286 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The OCR thingy failed, btw < 1299984303 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1299984321 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like it asked for my password >.> < 1299984326 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure why google would tolerate another website claiming "(c)2011 Google" at the bottom of the page < 1299984330 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, i'm not them, so < 1299984399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.no/#hl=no&safe=off&biw=1053&bih=620&q=%22googlecodesamples.com%22+site:google.com&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&fp=6f1a8d5df66b6a9c < 1299984434 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what to make of it < 1299984494 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm. maybe they intended it as an example url? i notice they don't actually have it in links, just text < 1299984516 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're *supposed* to use example.com for that sort of thing though < 1299984542 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: there is at least one place it's a link, in a message by a google employee in the link i pasted a bit further up < 1299984551 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weeeeeird. < 1299984590 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any other domain names that contain the name google are are known to be owned by them> < 1299984593 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1299984609 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :googlecode.com redirects to code.google.com < 1299984628 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whois on that gets back their mountain view office < 1299984643 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so -- if googlecodesamples is legit, why on earth did they register it by proxy < 1299984788 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose someone may have squatted it after google used it in text but forgot to register it < 1299984822 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: at any rate, if you want one of those addresses, there is really only one that makes sense: sbrk@libc.so < 1299984856 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that would make sense; i almost reasoned that far but didn't quite make it < 1299984857 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23.9% of APNIC pool available at the start of this month has already gone poof (9 business days). Crazy. < 1299984861 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, why? < 1299984875 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because both sbrk and Sgeo start with s and are 4 letters? < 1299984902 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :four letter words! < 1299984914 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: because system() and exit() are for peasants! everyone calls exit()! who calls sbrk()??? only REAL PROGRAMMERS, that's who! < 1299984925 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: there definitely don't seem to be any high-ranked pages _warning_ against it, though < 1299984993 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or how about 'fsck@libc.so', to advertise a delicate, cultured confusion about unix. < 1299985034 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is not a correct way to reformat a file system, Alex? < 1299985055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Created on: 6/30/2008 12:57:19 PM < 1299985057 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1299985125 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not new enough to be something google hasn't discovered yet < 1299985136 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, maybe they just don't care < 1299985152 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, it's theirs, in some weird convoluted way < 1299985170 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next theory: someone squatted it, quickly got threatened by google's lawyers, and google now owns it but still via the same registrar they originally used < 1299985172 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, this svr4 .so file is confusing the eff out of nm, readelf and objdump :P < 1299985173 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at any rate i don't think it's any kind of threat, exactly < 1299985227 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sbrk is pretty great :P < 1299985235 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fsck isn't a libc symbol. < 1299985261 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, unlike cpressey, is apparently not into the delicate, cultured confusion thing. So be it. < 1299985283 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i curse thee, DST. i need to get to bed < 1299985288 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night < 1299985291 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1299985300 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently svr4 had "pcopy" < 1299986034 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Aaaah*, decaf. Because I both want coffee and want to sleep tonight. < 1299986186 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really wish I had a legit C compiler in my svr4 install :( < 1299986864 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1299987047 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1299987096 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did quintopia finish his new bfjoust scoring? < 1299987131 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: did you end up getting it? < 1299987151 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Like I said, it's up for auction. < 1299987159 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when does the auction close? < 1299987179 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :April 4th. It opens March 28th :P < 1299987186 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-| < 1299987193 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants a good domain names
< 1299987193 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION rants
< 1299987203 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pants
< 1299987208 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could still have a good email address ;) < 1299987214 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh yeah < 1299987287 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes back to work on ports stuff
< 1299988417 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c-parse.y:1650.19-20: $$ for the midrule at $4 of `structsp_attr' has no declared type < 1299988422 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1299988485 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1299988678 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1299989024 0 :azaq23!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1299989628 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :creat < 1299989638 0 :creat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAS BEST NICK EVER < 1299989691 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should change his name to longjmp.
< 1299989738 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1299990332 0 :creat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Only if you buy longjmp@libc.so :P < 1299991181 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: creat I win < 1299991197 0 :creat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1299991202 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my name is the best :-) < 1299991215 0 :creat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmmm, it's pretty OK, but :P < 1299991250 0 :creat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :creat is more tongue-in-cheek :P < 1299992319 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299993046 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bop < 1299993476 0 :creat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Vanity libc.so email addresses! < 1299993482 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1299993513 0 :creat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I'm soliciting donations to try to win libc.so in a closed auction. As benefit for donating, I'm offering vanity @libc.so email addresses if I win :P < 1299993531 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1299993536 0 :creat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1299993561 0 :creat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohyeah, I'm Gregor btw X-D < 1299993606 0 :creat!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor < 1299993634 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snagged creat while it was available :P < 1299993655 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1299993666 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | I don't think she'll be too happy with me for letting you do this, but I'm not sure how many entries we'll be having in the first place. < 1299993680 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMN YOU OPTBOT < 1299993702 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should disable optbot until this problem can be corrected < 1299993702 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: 0xfoo is what I prefer of the alternatives < 1299993721 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as the author is concerned, this is a feature X_X < 1299993748 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe, but it still ought to be corrected. < 1299993767 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It ought to change topic messages less often and only under the correct circumstances. < 1299993784 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or else disable that function entirely is another possibility) < 1299993795 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The preferable possibility. < 1299993837 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know who wrote that program? < 1299993948 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know Betza Notation for moves of pieces in chess variants? < 1299994022 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott wrote optbot. < 1299994022 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh snap :P < 1299994047 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Seeeeeya < 1299994141 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have my own. I will proceed to type the notation for the moves in FIDE (ignoring special rules such as en passan, promote, double step, castling, check). Rook is "xr1". Bishop is "1r1". Queen is "(x|1)r1". King is "(1)x1". Knight is "2x1". Pawn is "(1c|m)1+". < 1299994153 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Can you ask elliott to correct it please? < 1299994165 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Can has optbot banned? :P < 1299994165 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (assuming b /= 0) < 1299994173 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do it yourself if he were here. < 1299994191 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh ... no? < 1299994205 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, that is an idea to temporarily ban optbot until this problem can be corrected, I guess. < 1299994205 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Interesting way to describe Caramac. < 1299994205 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that was in response to zzo38 < 1299994239 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh :P < 1299994239 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: He won't. < 1299994252 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1299994281 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like my notation for moves of pieces in chess variants? < 1299994285 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _am_ still willing to put a temporary +t on the channel, though. < 1299994289 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tried to nick to bdb < 1299994292 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone's using it < 1299994404 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: With what topic? < 1299994448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one from just before now? < 1299994466 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Welcome to #esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - #esoteric is not associated with the joke language Perl, for that language please visit www.perl.org or #perl - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1299994484 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want it to be QUITE that self-serving :P < 1299994508 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... what's the point in locking that < 1299994526 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even have the herobrine logs. < 1299994544 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then perhaps do not lock it. Ask elliott whenever they come on, to correct it. < 1299994552 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant if someone actually had some information that needed to stay on it. < 1299994600 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't NEED my libc.so fund to stay in the topic, it just seems stupid that it's being preempted by a fucking markov chain. < 1299994618 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, so ask elliott to fix it. < 1299994619 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't care if a human was replacing it. < 1299994623 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He won't. < 1299994626 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the purposes of this chanenl, I think nobody has information that needs to stay on it. However, I still think optbot ought to be corrected to change the message less often and not if it has been changed recently. < 1299994656 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot should, at most, change the topic iff it doesn't link logs. < 1299994656 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: agbfced < 1299994677 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: oh, i am perfectly willing to ban optbot if elliott doesn't make its topic changes less annoying _after_ a warning. < 1299994677 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I agree, carrier pigeons would be more reliable, if slower on average < 1299994682 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Very good idea I think. < 1299994702 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Also it is a good idea to give a warning first. < 1299994719 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then ban it temporarily until it can be corrected, if it is still not corrected. < 1299994808 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Donate to the Gregoran Somalian Relief Fund, and help Gregor buy libc.so! | Benefits of donation include a vanity @libc.so email address if I win (and a full refund if I don't); creat@libc.so is still available! | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ < 1299994834 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't care about the frequency of optbot's changes, but there should be a way to keep things in the topic. < 1299994834 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Perhaps, either when it doesn't link logs or [some length of time] after it has been last changed, whichever comes first. The length of time here should be at least 24 hours, maye even 7 days if you *really* don't want it changed automatic like that! < 1299994835 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hard to render kanji in low-res, and kana would have been quite long < 1299994860 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be no timer. Period. < 1299995013 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I think there should be, but it should count from the last change by anyone and it should be very long (make it fourteen days if you are really concerned, or maybe even twenty-eight days). Unless the logs are not linked, in which case the topic change is activated immediately instead. This channel many topic message change, so if it has not changed in fourteen days, it is time to change it! < 1299995036 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine, but it's never time to change it to a MARKOV CHAIN >_< < 1299995146 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Maybe. Perhaps it can select at random from a list, one choice is markov, one is quotes database, and so on. And then decide at random from that. < 1299995194 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it is important that it counts from the last change that anyone made, instead of counting the time only from its own changes. < 1299995196 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i disagree with both of you, so there. < 1299995203 0 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299995211 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What is your opinion then? < 1299995261 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, but I want a C++ keyword! < 1299995279 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Donate $100 or more and I'll give you anything @libc.so :P < 1299995316 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure optbot is actually a Markov chain. < 1299995316 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Not that I have any clue whether gcc would understand that access via that "bar" pointer there would be 16-byte-aligned. Or what auchar[1] would mean. Maybe there would be padding. < 1299995331 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's too semantically meaningful. < 1299995342 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's doing random log quotes. < 1299995390 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think it's doing random log quotes. < 1299995391 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: alise, that text is blurry though. < 1299995443 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot < 1299995443 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah it still says it doesn't know the magnet protocol < 1299995446 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Optbot < 1299995451 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.optbot. < 1299995451 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: We could name it "Norton utilities", after the great Discordian Saint. < 1299995455 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[optbot] < 1299995455 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: maybe he meant if you've checked from DSM you can't be sane < 1299995462 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, definitely random log quotes. < 1299995462 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah, EVEN WORSE than a Markov chain X_X < 1299995468 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i do not think we should make rules that are more strict than what's needed to solve what is an actual problem. i consider the actual problem here to be that optbot wipes out information from the topic. < 1299995468 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ar isn't difficult. < 1299995479 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :fungot[optbot < 1299995481 0 :fungot[optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot < 1299995481 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot[optbot: I also don't use reminder text in my cards generally (even if it has no flavor text or arts) < 1299995487 0 :fungot[optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :zzo38 < 1299995491 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1299995495 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's not. < 1299995502 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do believe that was an actual zzo38 quote. < 1299995523 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Yes, I think it is something I was doing with Magic: the Gathering cards. < 1299995698 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088172176.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1299995752 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I have never connected there, someone told me that FurNet immediately disconnects you if certain words are received from you. However, I want to try connecting from a computer with a reverse DNS containing one of those words. < 1299995906 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While SlashNet does not immediately disconnect you, but some commands are prohibited if they contain prohibited words, while others do different things in that case. PRIVMSG is then prohibited but not NS, and using it with QUIT causes your quit message to be suppressed but it otherwise works normally. < 1299995951 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such a thing, no doubt, suffers from clbuttic problems. < 1299995985 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1299996049 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The word happens to be "start keylogger" without the space (some faulty security programs disconnect you if you receive it on IRC). There are also other words such as a command to send a file but with a too long filename, that also is one of the words that is considered prohibited. < 1299996075 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitely clbuttic problems. < 1299996116 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Yes, there is, a bit. < 1299996139 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I, myself, do not think the IRC server should do that. Or, at least, make it a usermode for the receiver.) < 1299996150 0 :amca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: bye < 1299996186 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I consider naive filtering to be a clbuttic mistake < 1299996225 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it rarely even buttists in solving the problem; it's no more effective than a glbutt wall < 1299996225 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1299996247 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes I do, too. A clbuttic mistake is found in many things and doesn't work well in many cases. < 1299996261 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact it should be avoided. < 1299996314 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or, at least, made into a usermode for the receiver. Some forum software makes it a configuration option in the preferences of the receiver. Some even allows custom filters as well as setting which ones are sender, receiver, or both.) < 1299996343 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And I mean the individual users can define custom filters for themself. I just turned off all built-in and custom filters.) < 1299996387 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, still, if someone is able to configure their reverse DNS, try connecting to FurNet with the forbidden words in your reverse DNS to see what happens. < 1299996405 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider the english language as a canvbutt; why restrict users from using certain colors? < 1299996484 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes I agree that you should not restrict users in this way. They can decide for themself not to use certain colors, words, phrases, sentences, or whatever. Or, decide to use anything; perhaps even non-English texts if they will include some in whatever they are typing. < 1299996518 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I concur wholeheartedly < 1299996724 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other similar mistakes that are meant not to censor/filter words but other things, also sometimes do that, such as someone wanted to replace their HTML with XHTML, so they just did a global search/replace "br" to "br /" and obviously that mixed up every word with "br" in it (replacing "
" would have been better, but still not perfect). < 1299996766 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, in one instance someone managed to remove all "t" (only lowercase) from their main webpage (both inside and outside of tags). < 1299996968 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is your opinion about my notations for describing how pieces can move in a kind of chess variant game? < 1299996989 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not seen that variant or notation < 1299997009 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Notation for FIDE pieces: Rook is "xr1". Bishop is "1r1". Queen is "(x|1)r1". King is "(1)x1". Knight is "2x1". Pawn is "(1c|m)1+". < 1299997052 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand it < 1299997052 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not describing particular variants; I am talking about a general notation that might be used for multiple kind of games. Betza notation is another such notation. < 1299997062 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is probably bad < 1299997080 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I can't, from the FIDE pieces and your notation, understand the notatoin < 1299997157 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: OK I can explain a bit. It can have a form [horizontal-direction][horizontal-number][move-flags][vertical-number][vertical-direction]. < 1299997189 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where "r" means rider, "x" means the horizontal and vertical can be swapped, and so on. < 1299997195 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now can you understand it a bit? < 1299997199 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1299997303 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the Rook example, "xr1" is where "1" is the vertical-number, "x" means that it could be horizontal instead, "r" means it can move multiple times in that direction. So, it can move horizontal or vertical, moving one step each time and is allowed to move more than one space. < 1299997371 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... that's pretty cumbersome, I'd say < 1299997377 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there are no flags and the result would be ambiguous if that part is omitted, use "_" as the flags. < 1299997410 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, the x modifier seems silly < 1299997429 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would assume symmetric moves by default < 1299997441 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes a bit more cumbersome than Betza notation, but probably more versatile (I did not describe all things about rule, yet). < 1299997483 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: OK, that is a good point; still removing such modifier might cause problems in some other cases. < 1299997516 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is easier to add symmetry than to remove it... < 1299998440 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1299998487 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1300000786 0 :aloril!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1300001417 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300001555 0 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1300001845 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1300002540 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300002785 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300003123 0 :Okhotnik!~okhotnik_@87.241.223.146 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300003199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1300003200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1300003304 0 :Okhotnik!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1300003726 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1300004771 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-247-21.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300004773 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1300005116 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION adds symmetry to oerjan's gestalt
< 1300005412 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AUM < 1300005459 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey wait a minute, i've been trying to _avoid_ becoming spherical... < 1300005538 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why i made you a horned-sphere. < 1300005607 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaaa < 1300005621 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how diabolic. < 1300005647 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mwahahahhaha! < 1300005658 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also gave you a hunch < 1300005672 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horns and a hunch, very diabolic. < 1300005688 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had a hunch it would be. < 1300005728 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and hoofs < 1300005736 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oof < 1300005896 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1300005966 0 :cheater97!~cheater@g224201184.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300005971 0 :cheater97!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hooves, isn't it? :D < 1300005988 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1300006720 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Guinness Book of Records doesn't accept records with a health and safety risk. < 1300006723 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1300006991 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh. RIPE NCC is also exhausting quite rapidly. Not as crazy rate as APNIC but still pretty fast. < 1300007072 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1300007086 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YouTube won't let me create another account without my postcode. < 1300007155 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION enters SW1A 2AA
< 1300007250 0 :cheater97!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that the east end < 1300007268 0 :cheater97!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no strand < 1300007301 0 :cheater97!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, would be nice to be living there, wouldn't it? < 1300007345 0 :cheater97!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost got a job next to number 10, but didn't feel like moving back to london < 1300007568 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's SW1A 2AA? Some special code? < 1300007576 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 Downing Street. < 1300007581 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah. < 1300007626 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, reminds me of 90210 in US zip codes. That isn't special (but seems very popular nevertheless). :-) < 1300007660 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, /r/truetruereddit has 543 subscribers. < 1300007674 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sees how far the rabbit hole goes.
< 1300007837 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, only as far as truetruetruereddit, which has 9. < 1300007838 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1300008196 0 :aloril!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1300008563 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Using Plato's detailed account of Atlantis as a map, searches have focused on the Mediterranean and Atlantic as the best possible sites for the city.]] < 1300008567 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU DON'T SAY < 1300008947 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088172176.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1300008980 0 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1300010157 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-172-160.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300010160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1300010255 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-8-200.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300014644 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1300016208 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1300016625 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1300018494 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1300018535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot! < 1300018535 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | And, uh, well, not the entire compiler, I guess. < 1300018541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> <_< >_> <_< < 1300018589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:12:23 oklopol, so, uh, circuscheme. < 1300018590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:15:28 How do you have an uncountably infinite tree? < 1300018591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't. < 1300018595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by definition. < 1300018605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well almost < 1300018623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:18:00 hmm, that might be one reason why people like axiom-of-choiceless systems < 1300018623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:18:06 even though they don't seem to correspond to reality too well < 1300018625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes they do < 1300018632 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what was he going on about countably infinite trees for? < 1300018634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you're not referring to Banach-Tarski < 1300018646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: because that's what they are < 1300018671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:36:58 *two people never modify a file in the exact same way*; that's not a realistic user case. <-- um what if there's a single, obvious fix to a bug? < 1300018671 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm? Banach-Tarski would be an argument that systems with choice don't correspond to reality. < 1300018686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's possible, but even if the exact same change was made, you can trivially merge them < 1300018693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just, sg's algorithm can't < 1300018694 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A stupid argument, but an argument nonetheless. < 1300018695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It is NOT. < 1300018702 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I know! < 1300018710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*You* *cannot* *do* *that* *to* *physical* *spheres*. < 1300018718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why I'm hoping ais doesn't mean it. < 1300018736 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*But* if you're going to argue of choice or ¬choice corresponds to reality, Banach-Tarski would be an argument for ¬choice. < 1300018743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. you cannot deconstruct a ball into such "pieces" IRL) < 1300018751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, banach-tarski wouldn't be either way < 1300018753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's irrelevant < 1300018770 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, OK, but *if you decided to use it either way, it would be for ¬choice*. < 1300018777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and? < 1300018784 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[14:00:45] 23:15:28 How do you have an uncountably infinite tree?" by having one? < 1300018784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can still be hoping that ais won't use such a stupid argument. < 1300018797 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but true, it's impossible < 1300018810 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that's my point, he couldn't be, since he's saying that ¬choice doesn't correspond to reality. < 1300018814 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, not it's not < 1300018819 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, being stupid < 1300018821 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So he wouldn't use Banach-Tarski to argue it even if he was an idiot. < 1300018825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1300018829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :axiom of choice_less_ < 1300018834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought he said choice_ful_ < 1300018842 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if degrees are finite, then every connected component must be countable < 1300018847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: unless he thinks he can duplicate spheres :D < 1300018855 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | What should rem-0 be in funge? Taking /0 = 0 and thus 0? < 1300018910 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, YouTube requires a post code to create an account. Comment. < 1300018941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Uh, no? < 1300018949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Step 1. Make Google Account. Step 2. There is no < 1300019017 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a tree is uncountable, then of course there even has to be a vertex of uncountable degree, because a countable union of countable sets is countable < 1300019023 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, it did for me... < 1300019040 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for graphs in general < 1300019043 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :connected ones < 1300019514 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, so how would you do evaluation order in circuscheme? < 1300019601 0 :cpressey!~cpressey@conference/pycon/x-vsvlkxjamlqciiox JOIN :#esoteric < 1300019615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lord < 1300019618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long does this conference laugh < 1300019622 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a value is assigned to every node such that for every node, its value is the value of its operations done on the values of its children < 1300019636 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION attempts incompetently to convince the FlightGear IRC channel that XML is not a terribly good format for storing trees.
< 1300019640 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is done nondeterministically < 1300019641 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all. < 1300019645 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guten morgen fraulein, sprechen sie PYTHON??!?? < 1300019646 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a fail < 1300019658 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, NOOOO < 1300019662 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY HAVE TURNED YOU < 1300019665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: PYTÖN < 1300019678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: please tell me you translated all the keywords to german < 1300019681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as alternatives < 1300019846 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Entschuldigung nein < 1300020140 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :' "[14:00:45] 23:15:28 How do you have an uncountably infinite tree?"' <- have a countably infinite number of branches at each node? at a guess. < 1300020195 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, rem-0 should be 0, logically. < 1300020201 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rem-0? < 1300020207 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, exactly like that < 1300020208 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see topic < 1300020219 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1300020221 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even one node < 1300020236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: indeed < 1300020239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was me :) < 1300020245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i gave in and implemented funge-98. < 1300020246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in haskell. < 1300020247 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/beforeafter.htm < 1300020251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's even reasonably fast!!!!!1 < 1300020267 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conclusion: the tsunami has turned Japan into Gears of War. < 1300020271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's stalled on like... implementing TOYS or something else non-trivial < 1300020285 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the point is connectivity is defined by finite paths, so connected components will be countable unless you have uncountable degrees locally, somewhere < 1300020287 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess the acid test is what mycology says about it < 1300020298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I pretty much coded to Mycology, so yeah :P < 1300020315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All GOOD including the handful of fingerprints. Really Mycology is a metacircular specification < 1300020321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having almost no relation to the spec :) < 1300020337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(OK, OK, so most of the unambiguous cases are obvious.) < 1300020356 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"metacircular specification"? < 1300020364 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you feeling alright? < 1300020382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: It defines the language it's written in. < 1300020385 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how does it have no relation to the spec? < 1300020393 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: right, only one node, as long as you also have infinite paths downard < 1300020394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an executable, metacircular semantics, serving as the specification of Mycology Funge-98. < 1300020405 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: erm, or finite ones < 1300020409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: because when the spec is ambiguous, it makes up its own interpretation, or if the spec says you must d o something totally useless < 1300020414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes with the more useful interpretation < 1300020419 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1300020440 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: er - what if you have a root node, with a countably infinite number of children, but they're all leafs? that's not uncountable < 1300020440 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say take V = R \cup \{z\}, and E = R \times \{z\} < 1300020461 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"have a countably infinite number of branches at each node? at a guess." sorry, misread < 1300020476 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't help to have COUNTABLE degrees at each node < 1300020480 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, if you have UNcountably infinite branches at one node, then yes the tree is uncountable :) < 1300020484 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will have to have at least one node with uncountable degree < 1300020489 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i proved earlier < 1300020511 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, i believe you :) it was just a guess < 1300020526 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because for all k, the set of nodes you can reach with a path of length k or less will be countable, if all degrees are < 1300020545 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the whole graph's vertices are a union of a countable number of these countable sets < 1300020551 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1300020558 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the whole graph is countable. assuming it was connected. < 1300020573 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1300020583 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems like you could represent the reals in it... someh < 1300020587 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1300020587 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1300020609 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see there's no node at the end of your infinite paths < 1300020613 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1300020644 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have an infinite path in the graph, but any node on it is still reachable in a finite amount of steps < 1300020651 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's no last digit in pi either < 1300020662 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and the length of pi is countable < 1300020690 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't biject reals with the digits of pi just like you can't biject them with this graph < 1300020695 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Against my better judgement, read today's xkcd. < 1300020698 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. giving up. thanks :) < 1300020700 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read the alt-text. < 1300020710 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if this confuses you, read a book on set theory, this can be a bit mind-blowing at first < 1300020727 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you didn't have a reason to punch Randall Munroe in the face already, you will now. < 1300020753 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, are you confused as to countable vs. uncountable infinity? < 1300020765 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: all you have to know is i gave you a proof of countability, if you don't believe it, tell me where the error is, not where your intuition disagrees < 1300020862 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it wouldn't occur to me to use that phrase; possibly because funge doesn't know what GOOD means. < 1300020900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1300020901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r < 1300020902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what phrase < 1300020905 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also, I assume by "funge-98" you mean you implemented Une-, Be-, and Tre- < 1300020914 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the phrase "metacircular etc" < 1300020926 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, i'm not < 1300020932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: It's a program, that when run, prints out lots of GOOD or BAD lines according to whether the interpreter is correct or not. < 1300020949 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, i know that < 1300020960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Occasionally it contradicts the literal word of the Funge-98 specification when it says something particularly stupid; occasionally it makes up its own interpretation when there is extreme ambiguity. < 1300020966 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, FWIW, the *set* of all infinite graphs is uncountable. < 1300020966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore it defines its own language. < 1300020972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not executable semantics for a language. < 1300020975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is an executable specification. < 1300020982 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: my point was you have to know what GOOD means to interpret its rest < 1300020985 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :result < 1300020999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a predicate Myco that takes an interpreter I and returns whether that's a valid interpreter. You run it by doing I(Myco). < 1300021014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Well, that's no more of a problem than the fact that the C++ spec is written in English. < 1300021034 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: would you call the C++ spec metacircular < 1300021035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Of course a metacircular specification is not a very useful thing without any outside pointers, because the program could mean literally anything :) < 1300021051 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ON A VERY NON-PEDANTIC NOTE, THE CLASS OF ALL GRAPHS IS A PROPER CLASS < 1300021061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more of a joke than anything, but if you implement the Funge-98 spec to the letter, then you'll be able to run Mycology and get enough info to make it pass :-P < 1300021065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Probably.) < 1300021082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the place where it literally contradicts the spec, btw, is in y < 1300021084 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< cpressey> elliott: also, I assume by "funge-98" you mean you implemented Une-, Be-, and Tre- < 1300021087 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1300021103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I replied, didn't I? Maybe it's in my paste-buffer. < 1300021111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I implemented Befunge, but plan to extend it to N-funge for any N. < 1300021116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language::Befunge does this < 1300021120 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1300021125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also plan to implement TRDS, because I'm a madman. < 1300021138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's the bit that Mycology contradicts... except actually the spec contradicts itself < 1300021140 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're aspiring to be the next AnMaster < 1300021141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13. 1 vector containing the least point which contains a non-space cell, relative to the origin (env) < 1300021142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 vector containing the greatest point which contains a non-space cell, relative to the least point (env) < 1300021142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These two vectors are useful to give to the o instruction to output the entire program source as a text file. < 1300021147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*14. 1 vector (for the second) < 1300021155 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[I usually respond to someone else doing something good by figuring out a reason that they're not really as good as they seem.]] < 1300021160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, by the literal reading of the spec, #13 and #14 should always have an ACTUAL NON-SPACE CHARACTER there < 1300021161 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— Randall Munroe. < 1300021164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it's not the tightest square bounds < 1300021176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just the tightest x and y for which there is another coordinate that goes with it to return a non-space cell < 1300021182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it says "These two vectors are useful to give to the o instruction to output the entire program source as a text file." < 1300021202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1300021203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1300021212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#13 should be the smallest (x,y) that contains a non-space cell < 1300021216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not < 1300021224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the smallest (x,y) such that when paired with #14, all non-space cells are contained within < 1300021233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but the o line, depending on how perversely you're willing to interpret useful, means it MUST be a rectangular bound, as intended < 1300021243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mycology takes that interpretation, which is totally lame < 1300021249 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: with all the interesting ideas you have, why on earth did you implement Befunge-98 < 1300021252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi, you've all stopped listening :) < 1300021253 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yeah that's kind of an interesting thing to say < 1300021260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: It sounded like fun. < 1300021267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I do lots of stupid things. < 1300021271 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, best part is that he's not averse to doing good things himself. < 1300021279 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah elliott is pretty stupid < 1300021291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: It's less than 4000 lines of Haskell including fingerprints, and I got to use several type system extensions, so I can definitively state that implementing Befunge-98 is trivial. < 1300021306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A problem is non-trivial when it takes over 5,000 lines of Haskell to implement.) < 1300021317 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really hope he gets tonnes of people telling him how funding that school in Africa is nothing to be proud of. < 1300021365 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does he sport that on the webpage or something? < 1300021398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: AFAICT implementing Funge-98 is actually interesting, just not in the parts that matter < 1300021408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting things include efficient fungespace structures < 1300021419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uninteresting things include all the instructions :) < 1300021422 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can it be both interesting and trivial? < 1300021440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I think that's a deeper question than you intended. < 1300021445 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't < 1300021455 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you underestimate me < 1300021463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fermat's Last Theorem is pretty trivial. < 1300021470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it not interesting? < 1300021472 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god I'm having another attack of "I can't realistically go to university for another year and a half and I'll have all but one of the qualifications I actually need by this summer." < 1300021479 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's trivial? < 1300021484 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you implement it in less than 5kloc of hskell? < 1300021486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: The theorem is. < 1300021492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That the only proof we have isn't is irrelevant. < 1300021501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, it's relevant; it contributes to the interestingness.) < 1300021506 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i assumed you meant the implementation. i mean you didn't say *befunge* is trivial, you said implementing it is < 1300021508 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, weeeelll... < 1300021519 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge being trivial, and implementing it being interesting have nothing to do with each other < 1300021525 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*proof < 1300021529 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The theorem *itself* isn't trivial in the sense of "has no other use in mathematics"; the proof alone demonstrates this. < 1300021538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's trivial in statement. < 1300021552 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, OK. < 1300021552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Anyway, I haven't _written_ a fancy fungespace structure :) < 1300021560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a decent enough one so far to pass Mycology. < 1300021567 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so the actual theorem is both interesting and trivial, right < 1300021572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still has pathological cases. < 1300021574 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you mean the interesting thing was the proof < 1300021577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no < 1300021583 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*meant < 1300021586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the fact that the proof is so complicated contributes to the interestingness of the theorem though, IMO < 1300021594 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely < 1300021596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the theorem is so trivial < 1300021609 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and the method of the proof also increases the interestingness. < 1300021634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! now let's all pretend we understand the proof < 1300021652 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, in its original statement it's just a rather isolated number theory thing with none of the vastness of the influence it actually has < 1300021665 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And surely we all understand the *outline* of the proof? < 1300021676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vaguely, I didn't really look too hard < 1300021689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so which are you gonna prove the riemann hypothesis to be when you grow up, false or true < 1300021706 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought oklopol didn't like numbers very much. < 1300021718 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's going to prove it to be trivial < 1300021726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by implementing it in Haskell? < 1300021728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1300021734 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, the Riemann hypothesis isn't trivial in statement. < 1300021745 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it's not all that complex. < 1300021771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it requires complexes, it's not trivial < 1300021780 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complexes are pretty trivial. < 1300021785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no they're not < 1300021788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reals aren't < 1300021805 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, OK, but once you have the reals you have the complexes trivially. < 1300021854 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" And surely we all understand the *outline* of the proof?" << no never heard it, what is it? < 1300021915 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: please summarize the outline of the proof for oklopol's benefit < 1300021922 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's how much i know: elliptic something < 1300021930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll wait until Phantom_Hoover finishes, then ask cpressey for the tl;dr < 1300021946 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, if there exists a solution to the equation, that implies there exists a certain elliptic equation which cannot be modular. < 1300021955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: btw if i hadn't been implementing befunge-98 i'd have been playing minecraft, so it was probably a positive use of my time :) < 1300021962 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, *cannot have a corresponding modular form < 1300021969 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what what's an elliptic equation? always wondered but never checked < 1300021972 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*and < 1300021974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder how long amazon shipping takes, like a year prolly < 1300021983 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you just keep believing that < 1300021983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or like, seventy years < 1300022006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i'm not quite sure you understand just what a waste of time minecraft is < 1300022010 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I don't know, really. They're a certain form of equation with interesting behaviour which has nothing to do with ellipses directly. < 1300022035 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, i have this hunch it's just a third degree equation with multiple variables and some extra shit < 1300022038 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but let's wp < 1300022064 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And modular forms are something to do with complex analysis and group theory and maybe topology. < 1300022089 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Taniyama-Shimura says that they're equivalent in a specific way. < 1300022105 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.xkcd.com/865/ me like < 1300022126 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are equivalent in a specific way? < 1300022131 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those fields? < 1300022150 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, erm, elliptic equations and modular forms. < 1300022170 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh erm right < 1300022182 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some crazy shit they got there < 1300022202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that one was a pretty good xkcd for recently < 1300022209 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR they have some generator thingy which happen to correspond perfectly, and the conjecture was that that the generator thingy for elliptic equations would always correspond to a generator thingy for a modular form. < 1300022215 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we had this fun little course by some famous guy about automata in number theory so now i'm all about decimal expansions temporarily < 1300022230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how this has gone from < 1300022230 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love generator thingies < 1300022231 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i occasionally like numbers, but i suck at that stuff :( < 1300022235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : we all know the thing of the thing right? < 1300022238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : no, tell me < 1300022241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : well it's A and B < 1300022244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : what's A and B < 1300022246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : uh < 1300022248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : dunno < 1300022257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to uh < 1300022258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to that < 1300022263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have difficulty keeping track of my words. < 1300022281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: generators, the best thing ever!! < 1300022289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1300022289 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway, you can get an elliptic equation the generator thingy of which cannot correspond to a modular form, so ¬Fermat → ¬Taniyama-Shimura. < 1300022336 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Taniyama-Shimura → Fermat, and Wiles' proof is a proof of a sufficient subproblem of Taniyama-Shimura. < 1300022338 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have any kind of intuition for what this generator thingy is? i mean i don't see how an equation can have a generator of any kind < 1300022354 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh umm < 1300022356 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1300022363 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me read that again < 1300022376 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOMBS, FROGS, GOATS < 1300022384 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEN BOMBS AGAIN < 1300022410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i... newsletter, can is ign up < 1300022411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1300022412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: < 1300022413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not Phantom_Hoover < 1300022436 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO YOU ARE WRONG. CPRESSEY=PHANTOM_HOOVER < 1300022445 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did wiles prove that in certain cases, the generator thingy of an elliptic equation (curve?) corresponds to one of a modular form, and that if fermat is not true, then you find an elliptic equation of this form such that you can't find a modular form for it? < 1300022466 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yeah, basically. Well. < 1300022477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiles proved he's a wily fox < 1300022478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get it < 1300022480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiles...y fox < 1300022489 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Fermat-to-elliptic-curve thing was proven by someone else. < 1300022491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : NO YOU ARE WRONG. CPRESSEY=PHANTOM_HOOVER < 1300022493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one's the alter-ego < 1300022494 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a course on elliptic curves in our uni occasionally, but i think it's more about its applications in coding theory < 1300022496 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1300022500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is ph you pretending to be an irritating kid, because that's really funny < 1300022505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waits for swatting
< 1300022507 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know what this generator thingy is called or based in < 1300022507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever the kids do these days < 1300022532 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do technology < 1300022536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. < 1300022540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't want to be technologised. < 1300022554 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm still wondering about the generator thingy too, are we talking about some sort of generating set w.r.t. some operation, that generates the set of solutions to an elliptic equation or what? < 1300022559 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc doesn't count of course < 1300022570 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swatpans elliott
< 1300022577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't wait until facebook reinvents ir < 1300022578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c < 1300022581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably they already have < 1300022582 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I forgot the little --==\#/ < 1300022595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fact, only lamers make up their own swatting insrtument < 1300022601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly cuz vorpal did it first < 1300022615 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't, I stuck oerjan's swatting instruments together. < 1300022617 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, now i wanna know how fermat is proved :( < 1300022628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: with ducks :) < 1300022661 0 :cheater97!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the proof is in the pudding < 1300022670 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"software without software: the zen of softwareless software" < 1300022673 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well, I got this from a book which was (highbrow) pop mathematics, so I'm by no means an expert. < 1300022687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HIGHBROW POP MATHEMATICS < 1300022695 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i get that on a shirt < 1300022696 0 :cheater97!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i heard people who invented computers hard-wired them to prevent the tabs vs spaces dispute. < 1300022701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that... < 1300022709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i can't decide whether love or hate < 1300022751 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, y'know, not going over the same thing fifty times because you can't depend on the audience having paid attention. < 1300022757 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'M LOOKING AT YOU BRIAN COX < 1300022782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: he used to be a pop star, he's used to making money by repeating the same thing over and over again for three minutes < 1300022784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH < 1300022784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SNAP < 1300022789 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1300022795 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to steal that. < 1300022807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION PATENTS JOKE
< 1300022872 0 :cheater97!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: choose life. < 1300022890 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that movie had nothing to do with spotting trains < 1300022900 0 :hirnstein!~ich@dslb-088-074-185-163.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300022900 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants money back
< 1300022904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: :D < 1300022914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope some old conservative trainspotters went and saw it or something < 1300022944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia: There are still some pure 'trainspotters' (see below), but a large proportion of UK enthusiasts have wider interests than mere 'spotting'. < 1300022946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) ;) ;) < 1300022957 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[15:08:50] oklopol, well, I got this from a book which was (highbrow) pop mathematics, so I'm by no means an expert." <<< well of course you did, no one's crazy enough to actually read the proof; i'm just wondering if the book used a fancier term than generator thingy that i can google :) < 1300022975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read the proof < 1300022977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by reading the header < 1300022977 0 :cheater97!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it was the hobby of the uncle of the kid who can't run away from the shop at the beginning < 1300022981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then scrolling really fast to the bottom < 1300022983 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was L-series or something for elliptic forms. < 1300022986 0 :cheater97!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1300022996 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*equations < 1300022998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still took like three minutes < 1300023003 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what is "highbrow" pop mathematics? < 1300023005 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea what the corresponding thing is for modular form. < 1300023008 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, has some details in there < 1300023014 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yeah, basically. < 1300023017 0 :cheater97!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: god damnit stop saying the same words as i! < 1300023017 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1300023022 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of these http://www.ncomputing.com/products-lseries < 1300023023 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming your audience aren't scared by numbers. < 1300023075 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only certain numbers scare me < 1300023078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 < 1300023080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 scares me < 1300023085 0 :cheater97!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3333333333333333333333333333333333 < 1300023095 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Omega, because Cthulhu lives there. < 1300023097 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 3 < 1300023100 0 :cheater97!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 sort of looks like a butt < 1300023122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 IS NOT LESS THAN 3 < 1300023136 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is < 1300023144 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, they renamed the Taniyama-Shimura Conjecture to the modularity theorem? < 1300023150 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bloody mathematicians. < 1300023169 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dislike using people's names in theorems < 1300023180 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gasp! DISQUS IS NOT IN THE CLOUD < 1300023183 0 :cheater97!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's sort of annoying < 1300023189 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the humanity < 1300023191 0 :cheater97!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the one hand every second theorem is euler's theorem < 1300023193 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1300023199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1300023203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cries
< 1300023212 0 :cheater97!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other it's the Mzxdzszszszsz theorem, try and pronounce it. < 1300023213 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, have you seen those stupid "to the Cloud!" Windows ads and raged at them accordingly? < 1300023226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i just want Windows 8 Cloud < 1300023236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that runs by downloading the code for everything from microsoft servers < 1300023240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then uploading it to another server < 1300023241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where it executes < 1300023243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and does VNC to you < 1300023256 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Euler's Taniyama-Shimura Modularity Theorem < 1300023276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we just prefix Euler's in front of everything in mathematics? < 1300023278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :save a lot of trouble < 1300023278 0 :cheater97!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: almost. you need to find the kanji for the names. < 1300023286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, just call all constants Euler's constant < 1300023289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all theorems Euler's theorem < 1300023290 0 :cheater97!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: and then have a german maths student pronounce it. < 1300023299 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1300023301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Euler's conjecture < 1300023323 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to do stuff (this is a general statement) < 1300023336 0 :cheater97!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: just do it. < 1300023364 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater97: that's what that shoe company tells me, too < 1300023382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: you should visit here more often, so that such silly thoughts of "doing things" are quickly forgotten < 1300023396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very therapeutic < 1300023436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot! < 1300023436 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | asiekierka, not in funge 93 < 1300023439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot! < 1300023439 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | "Hello from my TABLET!!!" < 1300023442 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i has exam tomorrow so i'm probably going to go real soon. < 1300023464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so i actually bought the book, WHO'S DEDICATED *NOW* < 1300023475 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck, oklopol < 1300023480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1300023481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1300023483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck < 1300023487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kinda just tend to assume he'll doperfectly < 1300023490 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how many buttons did you have to press? < 1300023490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*do perfectly < 1300023490 0 :cheater97!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: bad luck! i hope you crash and burn. < 1300023491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like always < 1300023499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: like 25??? < 1300023502 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i had a mistake in my graph theory exam < 1300023505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a very stressful clicky experience < 1300023514 0 :cheater97!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's an old student custom to wish bad luck on exams otherwise you might spoil it) < 1300023515 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a bit vague" < 1300023521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: :O < 1300023527 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oh, i just saw why that tree thing isn't uncountable :) < 1300023528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give them ALL THE FUCKING DETAILS < 1300023534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prove everything from the peano axioms from scratch < 1300023542 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird, i wasn't even really thinking abotu ti < 1300023544 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: oh so you read my one line proof already? < 1300023546 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1300023561 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jk < 1300023562 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1300023572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1300023601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this touchpad would be nicer if ubuntu wasn't stupid about it < 1300023621 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but um, in the ergodic theory exam i actually made this huge mistake, the theorem was not provable using my technique at all < 1300023641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ... < 1300023651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ignore oklopol ;; too far < 1300023652 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i'll ever get over that < 1300023668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better put a sticky note on this laptop reminding me to never talk to oklopol again < 1300023669 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was like LOL SO EASY LOLOLOL < 1300023676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1300023678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i trusted you oklopol. < 1300023711 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but turns out things were east because i had started my proof by essentially stating that for every three points A, B, C, B is between A and C in pretty much every possible sense < 1300023715 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*easy < 1300023750 0 :cheater97!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol wtf? < 1300023764 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it is called "B" < 1300023766 0 :cheater97!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have just degraded yourself in my eyes :D < 1300023769 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what more do you need? < 1300023780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol is not very clever. < 1300023785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he < 1300023788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never learned the alphabet. < 1300023791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1300023805 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically that meant i accidentally reversed a < and didn't notice because a certain theorem applied in such a nice way to the result < 1300023825 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm certainly not clever, i doubt i've ever claimed that < 1300023850 0 :cheater97!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i know there's a reason why there's "klop" in "oklopol" < 1300023864 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm yes :D < 1300023869 0 :cheater97!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1300023875 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"python" is an anagram of "hypnot", which is the first part of the name "hypnotoad", which is from an animated series which is known to refer to programming languages < 1300023891 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all the proof i need < 1300023974 0 :cheater97!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what < 1300023988 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if i have that ergodic theory exam paper anywhere, i can't seem to recall what the problem was... < 1300023993 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should prolly ask ilkka tomorrow < 1300023995 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oklopol" is an anagram of... well i'm sure i'll find something < 1300024008 0 :cheater97!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not know what to say. < 1300024011 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure he likes me using his name here < 1300024016 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i shall call him mister x from now one < 1300024017 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*on < 1300024043 0 :hirnstein!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1300024160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol is a villa. < 1300024180 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most everywisely < 1300024203 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loop-lok < 1300024214 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lok is not english < 1300024231 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look-lop < 1300024249 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lop look works in theory < 1300024254 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1300024261 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look-lop could be a verb i guess < 1300024262 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-220-185.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300024266 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inspect, then cut < 1300024269 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1300024277 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300024286 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looklop would make a great higher-order function < 1300024290 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure what it does though < 1300024345 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it with pythonistas and list comprehensions? EVERY LANGUAGE HAS THOSE < 1300024349 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, approximately < 1300024365 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they just looooooooooooooooooooooooooove them < 1300024390 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python's are better tho < 1300024432 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not, but still < 1300024434 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll have to find out why someday < 1300024439 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for now, adios < 1300024452 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best os there is < 1300024559 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088172176.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1300024570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1300024645 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1300024706 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1300025188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : what is it with pythonistas and list comprehensions? EVERY LANGUAGE HAS THOSE < 1300025191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not C, or perl < 1300025193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1300025195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ruby < 1300025203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all good languages have them < 1300025209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but pythonistaaas have never used good languages < 1300025299 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which languages are good? < 1300025310 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coq doesn't have list comprehensions! < 1300025346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell < 1300025353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh... Erlang has them I think X-D < 1300025363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think cpressey's used Erlang, so yeah < 1300025376 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Epigram doesn't! < 1300026239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You could probably define it in Epigram... dunno about the syntax though :) < 1300026244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could do it with syntax in Agda. < 1300026262 0 :cheater97!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :php doesn't have list comprehensions! < 1300026456 0 :cpressey!~cpressey@conference/pycon/x-pukgqdlbibyywuie JOIN :#esoteric < 1300026489 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and one more thing, INTROSPECT IS NOT A TRANSITIVE VERB < 1300026497 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I CANNOT INTROSPECT YOU < 1300026563 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what it was was that i saw how to diagonlize the tree i was building from the reals < 1300026573 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: more of them things < 1300026581 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, it took me this long to even explain that part of it < 1300026584 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1300026600 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you build a tree from the reals exactly? < 1300026626 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i thought you could, but you can't. just like you can't build a table for them, classic diagonalization argument by whatshisname. < 1300026633 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :german guy < 1300026645 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well who cares who did that obvious thing < 1300026649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I CANNOT INTROSPECT YOU < 1300026650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1300026658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make a language based on objects introspecting other objects < 1300026659 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: AAAAIIIIRRRRGGGGGHHHHHhhh < 1300026661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>______> < 1300026671 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: IT ALREADY IS < 1300026673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, they cause the object to introspect itself and return what it sees < 1300026676 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it was g�del's idea < 1300026677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the object itself can't use it < 1300026694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(opposite of a public method, it's a ... something method?) < 1300026706 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :private-and-only-usable-by-others < 1300026722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: no, objects can call their own private methods :P < 1300026727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and er < 1300026733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other objects can't call the private method < 1300026737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in fact it's the opposite of private < 1300026739 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you saw how to diagonalize the tree you were building from the reals? can you elaborate, you take a tree with nodes tagged with reals and then what? < 1300026757 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :public-but-only-discoverable-through-"introspection"-by-others < 1300026770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I'm saying that the introspect method ITSELF would be this :P < 1300026780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would, of course, access all methods by finding a private method using the introspect method. < 1300026789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: To call one of your OWN methods, you get another object to do it. < 1300026808 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you use their decimal expansions or something? < 1300026809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do this by introspecting the other object (causing it to introspect itself), getting the appropriate method that ends up calling you, and passing yourself to it. < 1300026898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: come on, this is genius. < 1300026900 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no, i took my original tree (countable # of children at each node, countably deep.) and... assigned decimal expansions to each path (every child is another digit in a countably long number). and... some flash of "you could read that tree and diagonalize to derive a path that isn't in it". < 1300026910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two types of method < 1300026919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only_other_objects_can_access, and private (which you use for public) < 1300026922 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically realizing it's not really different from the table from ... that guy < 1300026932 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah the crazy guy < 1300026936 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm oh < 1300026947 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g�del, i thought you mean that < 1300026949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1300026954 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guy who doesn't believe in reals < 1300026963 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g�del was crazy too, ofc, but not mathematically < 1300026965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ceiling burger? < 1300026970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(zeilberger) < 1300026973 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1300026987 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :starts with a k? i should look this up < 1300026998 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kantor < 1300027005 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, cantor < 1300027007 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you prefer. < 1300027012 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1300027013 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was he much crazy? < 1300027022 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, he was a bit crazy. < 1300027023 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cantor < 1300027036 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR he ended up in a mental institution. < 1300027040 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g�del came up with similar ideas with the integers < 1300027068 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"guy who doesn't believe in the reals" made me think of someone else < 1300027080 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kronecker < 1300027084 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had to look that one up though < 1300027091 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not kronecker < 1300027091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah finitists < 1300027093 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :john something < 1300027094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeilberger is cooler though < 1300027097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he doesn't believe in the integers :> < 1300027103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even the naturals. < 1300027106 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't believe in the integers < 1300027109 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i mean < 1300027113 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only the prime ones < 1300027118 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your graph thing is similar to something a crazy guy said once < 1300027123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that's an infinite set, it doesn't exist < 1300027155 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why doesn't he? < 1300027165 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: much like aristotle, i have access to an infinitely powerful computer, so it exists for me < 1300027166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: because they're infinite < 1300027177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: you do? can I have an account? < 1300027200 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, and why doesn't he believe in infinite sets? < 1300027200 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure thing. to start, just speak into the parrot < 1300027218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: because he's an ultrafinitist/strong constructivist < 1300027226 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: make sure to close your eyes when the zebras run past < 1300027228 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest if trivial < 1300027232 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1300027245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: this is an interesting look into how prolonged exposure to Python damages the mind. < 1300027266 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: SNOW CRASH OMG U HAVE TO READ SNOW CRASH HAVE YOU READ SNOW CRASH??? < 1300027288 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this, list comprehensions, and introspecting other things. < 1300027304 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, how long does PyCon last? < 1300027308 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and a lot of dick-waving general nerdiness of course < 1300027324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, I was even _planning_ to read snow crash sometime < 1300027328 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well, the "Con" part of it ends today. there is a "sprint" part that i'm not attending that continues the rest of this week < 1300027332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The book presents the Sumerian language as the firmware programming language for the brainstem, which is supposedly functioning as the BIOS for the human brain." < 1300027334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no longer! < 1300027355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[No-Intro] Nintendo - Super Nintendo Entertainment System (20100805) [Various/1990]" FUCKYES < 1300027362 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sumerians and their NLP < 1300027381 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coisse them ratfaces < 1300027430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wish i knew what merging is. < 1300027442 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i'm really surprised that you don't have access to an infinitely powerful computer already, given how frequently you spell the letter E backwards, and A upside-down < 1300027456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 has taken over cpressey's mind! < 1300027464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly, everyone else's. < 1300027465 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it was john gabriel http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2010/02/_so_remember_back_in.php < 1300027468 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes some skill to misspell a letter < 1300027475 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're "discussing" that tree thing < 1300027482 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very fruitful a conversation < 1300027491 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: is that sarcastic? < 1300027498 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's taking time to load for me < 1300027499 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh most definitely < 1300027551 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather, not loading at all. oh well. i know the usual "hi i'm an internet kook, here's why cantor was wrong" pattern < 1300027608 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was one rather spectacular display i saw, some usenet group, on google groups -- i'm sure it wasn't the only one < 1300027615 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude was apparently famous < 1300027619 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on usenet) < 1300027694 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's him prolly < 1300027707 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's famous for being an incredibly retard < 1300027710 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*incredible < 1300027733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1300027734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knol < 1300027736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have just said < 1300027743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've probably even read it before < 1300027748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but knol is basically crackpot heaven < 1300027752 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't remeber, obviously < 1300027761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can write anything you want, it looks like an encyclopedia, and nobody can edit it!!!!!!! < 1300027769 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds familiar < 1300027775 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :australian? < 1300027779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's Google's shitty shitsite < 1300027780 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or new zealander? < 1300027781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: err, the person? < 1300027786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno < 1300027786 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, vague memories < 1300027788 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1300027849 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as he gets in long arguments about why cantor and/or godel were wrong because you can prove them wrong by programming in lambda calculus and also peano=penis... it doesn't really matter how many of him there are < 1300027885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :peano=penis? has anyone called him Penis please say yes < 1300027886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :penis arithmetic < 1300027928 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another vague memory that the peano numbers are due to peano having a name that is really "penis" in disguise < 1300027952 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to find this "knol" fellow; google insists that "knol" is a unit of knowledge < 1300027958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god. now i want a radical feminist argument that the reals are countable < 1300027965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on mathematics being a patriarchy < 1300027970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : trying to find this "knol" fellow; google insists that "knol" is a unit of knowledge < 1300027973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that _is_ what it is < 1300027976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's google's site < 1300027977 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : he's famous for being an incredibly retard ← the Good Math guy? < 1300027980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope of crackpots < 1300027989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: *MarkCC, and he's awesome < 1300028007 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, the guy he talks to behind that link < 1300028009 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I was thinking that he didn't seem to be a retard from what I'd read. < 1300028011 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the good math guy is okay < 1300028028 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, bloody page won't load. < 1300028042 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scienceblogs seems to be completely down for me < 1300028042 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, weird < 1300028043 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too < 1300028067 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh good, Google have a cache. < 1300028117 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh. googling for (peano penis lambda calculus) gets you #esoteric channel logs on the first page. :) < 1300028227 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting closer -- found an eric naggum thread on comp.lang.lisp -- still not nuts enough, though < 1300028258 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. I do not think all the real numbers can be represented in any radix system. < 1300028258 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. I think the reason that Cantor was unable to < 1300028258 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :show the real numbers are countable is due to the fact that real numbers are not well-defined. < 1300028258 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, every rational number can be logically defined in terms of pairs of natural numbers (natural numbers are themselves special ratios that were derived from the concept of ratio, but this is another story). One can't do this with real numbers unless one assumes the same can be represented using radix systems. < 1300028258 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. I DO NOT believe the real numbers are *countable* - surprised? Why? Because these are not *well-defined*. However, if one uses Cantor's reasoning (which is completely beserk), one can show logically as I have, that the real numbers are indeed countable. < 1300028258 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can just see you trying to swallow this one with your limited intellectual faculties. < 1300028337 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly he's just being silly, but you shouldn't joke about math :\ < 1300028353 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :math is where no one has to disagree and everyone happy < 1300028353 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not without a *really* colourful wig on < 1300028358 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :math <3 < 1300028536 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.flickr.com/photos/mochimedia/5318304839/ aaaand that pretty much sums up my disgust. < 1300028793 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-151-54.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300028811 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1300028903 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wn.com/Befunge < 1300028904 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1300028913 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, why video? < 1300028925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you are sitll talking < 1300028928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello!!!!!!!!!! < 1300028938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also.. < 1300028943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge for garrysmod video what why < 1300028944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why even exist < 1300028948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : getting closer -- found an eric naggum thread on comp.lang.lisp -- still not nuts enough, though < 1300028950 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why nixie tubes??? < 1300028953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erik, you damned merican >:D < 1300028954 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, on that page? < 1300028980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1300028988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that video though at least shows what a befunge ide _should_ look like :) < 1300029027 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to find an implementation in java < 1300029093 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant's page doesn't list any < 1300029110 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google gives me lots of spam results "download free Befunge98 java" < 1300029147 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's YaBI93, but that's 93 < 1300029150 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1300029312 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus, this John Gabriel guy really is an idiot. < 1300029338 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah he even makes elliott look smart < 1300029352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally < 1300029572 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as Gabriels go, I prefer Peter < 1300029661 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screw this ima gonna build the ultimate save the world open source python package and upload it to pypi and everyone will send me patches and love and they'll offer me a job at google with guido and it will be the best ever package for totally doing that yeahh < 1300029662 0 :fungot!~fungot@83.150.124.64 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300029706 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'll use rabbitmq somehow < 1300029709 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeahhhhh < 1300029727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i < 1300029760 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i approve. that is the only appropriate response. < 1300029799 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, "i'm sorry. i'm so sorry." was in fact what he was going to say. < 1300029806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1300029808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was going to say "i" < 1300029825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be pronounced as "I—" < 1300029950 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i have reconsidered. i will also consider that response to be appropriate < 1300029972 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, in that vein, < 1300029980 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION powers up the Device.
< 1300029987 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear god no < 1300029996 0 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@209.150.235.10 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300029998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: What about "*tears well up* ... *silence* I'll tell the Internet." < 1300029998 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ducks and covers
< 1300030113 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.focus.com/briefs/software-development/12-coding-languages/ < 1300030123 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so. < 1300030135 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as much as i don't like this crowd, at least they're not THAT. < 1300030198 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude does not seem to understand something fundamental about why half the languages on that list were created < 1300030289 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CPRESSEY MUST NOT BE REMEMBERED AS A PYTHONISTA < 1300030297 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION points the Device at PyCon.
< 1300030368 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, wait, where is PyCon. < 1300030375 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Atlantis < 1300030381 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1300030386 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Georgia‽ < 1300030393 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION turns the power to full.
< 1300030616 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1300030653 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, you'll probably want to stock up on stuff. Quickly. < 1300030720 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads that article cpressey linked.
< 1300030802 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear god. < 1300030811 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION re-aims the Device.
< 1300030858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just aim the Device at everything. < 1300030861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much more efficient. < 1300030880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"who, for programmers, sure knew how to throw around the personal attacks and backbiting" < 1300030884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programmers aren't known to be dicks? < 1300030889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this alternate universe I'm living in < 1300030905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously though, is this how new professions are formed? WHY IS OUR ENTIRE FIELD FILLED WITH CHILDREN < 1300030914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apart from the good children, you know) < 1300030924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like me) < 1300030924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not like ph) < 1300030944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHAHAAHAHA I love how the befunge example loses all its spacing < 1300030954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Befunge remained virtually impossible to compile until very recently" < 1300030963 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't think you understand how the re-stabilised abelianiser works on the zygomorphic manifold. < 1300030986 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aiming the Device works the other way around to everything else. < 1300030987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :õ_O < 1300030992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they know of jitfunge? :p < 1300031060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlike some of the other languages on our list, VMRL had some wide audience appeal and the potential for a lot more. At its height in 1997, VMRL was occasionally used in personal home pages and on some 3D chat sites such as "CyberTown." < 1300031067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aoijsvkdnlghrtw-m049geisfdjiovxjknm please let sgeo not see this < 1300031074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yes, I know that Haskell is a relatively popular language compared to the other flops on this list. That said, Haskell has always had the feel of an also-ran language, despite its small but strong (and vocal) fans." < 1300031076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1300031076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is going to be painful < 1300031095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HASEK < 1300031099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HASKELL IS NOT DEAD YOU MORON < 1300031101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gbnjHG|F';louri5ye4oaw0da] < 1300031105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'f,gmhjkfwodlpax,jcrdepkjhfgjdxlzkjdfhgcszl,mskjhr4nemdcfyk,iol.,y < 1300031111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1300031114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it calls delphi dead < 1300031122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently vb6 killed it < 1300031122 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it? < 1300031127 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read that. < 1300031148 0 :cpressey!~cpressey@63.133.138.10 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300031151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey cpressey < 1300031152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you missed < 1300031152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all < 1300031153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fun < 1300031153 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blub blub < 1300031156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read the atricle < 1300031166 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, good news, you're not going to get Deviced today. < 1300031167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i moved my hands wildly around my keyboard in lieu of replying MULTIPLE TIMES < 1300031168 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which article < 1300031174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: the one you linked to < 1300031175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1300031176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"list" < 1300031180 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I discharged it on the peoplw who wrote that list. < 1300031180 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah < 1300031182 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*people < 1300031185 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1300031187 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, i said < 1300031201 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perspective, it's all about keeping it in perspective < 1300031211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: READ THE LOGS lest i have to repeat all my hilarious comments. ok they're not hilarious < 1300031213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1300031216 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1300031217 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will < 1300031218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just say things anyway < 1300031218 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do < 1300031222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but but < 1300031228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i like how the befunge example lost all spacing < 1300031236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would like to live in a world where befunge programs are shared via html renderings < 1300031243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and piecing together the control flow is the receiver's problem < 1300031260 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, how do you know about the Device's projective calibration of tensor rings? < 1300031265 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU KNOW TOO MUCH < 1300031356 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes, that logread was quite enjoyable < 1300031430 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goddammit i meant to type "atricle" < 1300031443 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i seriously typo'd an intentional re-typo < 1300031451 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fingers, bloody fingers < 1300031470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)) < 1300031473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atricle atricle atricle < 1300031489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: *fnigers < 1300031832 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only PyFunge were implemented in ruby or something < 1300031862 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if only there was a RubyFunge and it was implemented in ... uh.... < 1300031865 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say Clean < 1300031887 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, as it stands, this is way too predictable < 1300031963 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok I have to figure out a way to pack up all my shit^H^H^Hwag < 1300031976 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MongoDB mug. bitchen < 1300031981 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll treasure this < 1300031990 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, a roomerang < 1300032003 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how whimsical < 1300032028 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... something you punch out and clip together, from Disney. < 1300032048 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a bunch of junk mail, basically < 1300032067 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... laptop < 1300032069 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, um < 1300032072 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :later :) < 1300032077 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1300032420 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, DMM explained the Banach-Tarski paradox? < 1300032594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello.c++:36:5: error: inconsistent deduction for ‘auto’: ‘std::vector >’ and then ‘__gnu_cxx::__normal_iterator*, std::vector > >’ < 1300032594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello.c++:36:5: error: inconsistent deduction for ‘auto’: ‘std::vector >’ and then ‘__gnu_cxx::__normal_iterator*, std::vector > >’ < 1300032595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is fun < 1300032613 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...is hello.c++ hello world? < 1300032625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ostensibly. it's grown to calculating factorials. this is to iterate through a list. < 1300032651 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1300032658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAITWAITWAIT I think I can use statement expressions < 1300032668 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because all good hello world programs should calculate factorials! < 1300032684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes! < 1300032718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define each(elem, container) each_(elem, container, __COUNTER__) < 1300032720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define each_(elem, container, i_) each__(elem, container, i_) < 1300032720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define each__(elem, container, i) \ < 1300032720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for (auto each__container__ ## i = (container), \ < 1300032720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : each__iter__ ## i = (each__container__ ## i).begin(), \ < 1300032720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : each__end__ ## i = (each__container__ ## i).end(); \ < 1300032721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (each__iter__ ## i) != (each__end__## i); \ < 1300032722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ++(each__iter__ ## i)) \ < 1300032724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for (auto each__fake__ ## i = true, & elem = *(each__iter__ ## i); \ < 1300032728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (each__fake__ ## i); \ < 1300032735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (each__fake__ ## i) = false) < 1300032735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's my current code < 1300032735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But C++0x doesn't like you using "auto" to declare two things of a different type, as it turns out < 1300032736 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god you've been allowed near CPP again. < 1300032747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cpp < 1300032749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And C++! < 1300032757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Commonly called cpp in restricted areas such as file extensions and domain names! < 1300032759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpp abuse in cpp! < 1300032815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet boost has something like this < 1300032857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :love how i can't load the full log for today due to slow internet on my logbot < 1300032874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet coppro knows how to do this :P < 1300033055 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reeads the last xkcdexplained post.
< 1300033056 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1300033302 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott wanted to hide something from me < 1300033310 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1300033373 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, WHAT KIND OF THING < 1300033398 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's either something I already know about VRML, or some claim that Haskell is dead < 1300033456 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW DID HE PLAN TO HIDE THIS < 1300033528 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1300033569 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1300033724 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By saying "please let sgeo not see this" < 1300033808 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably because it mentioned one of your obsessions. < 1300033824 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN OTHER NEWS, j_random_idiot has spoken again. < 1300033877 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300034012 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1300034072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: < 1300034076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for (declare_variable declare__variable__1(args); declare__variable__1.fake;) for (auto each__container__0 = declare__variable__1.value; declare__variable__1.fake; declare__variable__1.fake = false) for (declare_variable declare__variable__2(each__container__0.begin()); declare__variable__2.fake;) for (auto each__iter__0 = declare__variable__2.value; declare__variable__2.fake; declare__variable__2.fake = false) for (declare_variab < 1300034076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :le declare__variable__3(each__container__0.end()); declare__variable__3.fake;) for (auto each__end__0 = declare__variable__3.value; declare__variable__3.fake; declare__variable__3.fake = false) for (; each__iter__0 != each__end__0; ++each__iter__i) for (declare_variable declare__variable__4(*each__iter__i); declare__variable__4.fake;) for (auto& arg = declare__variable__4.value; declare__variable__4.fake; declare__variable__4.fake = < 1300034078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :false) < 1300034080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also ais523 < 1300034115 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1300034125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: HI THERE < 1300034126 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the crap < 1300034142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: This will totally make more sense when it works, trust me :P < 1300034162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :declare_variable looks worryingly C++ish, to me < 1300034165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the meantime, < 1300034167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define DECLARE__(type_, name_, value_, i_) \ < 1300034167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for (declare_variable declare__variable__##i_(value_); \ < 1300034168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : declare__variable__##i_.fake;) \ < 1300034170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, the whole thing there looks like C++ < 1300034170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for (type_ name_ = declare__variable__##i_.value; \ < 1300034172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : declare__variable__##i_.fake; \ < 1300034174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : declare__variable__##i_.fake = false) < 1300034176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may help elaborate on what 90% of that is doing < 1300034178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It is! < 1300034180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm writing the Best C++ Program Ever. < 1300034181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, I will refrain from trying to understand it for the sake of the rest of my sanity < 1300034194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is me implementing a C++0x feature that GCC doesn't have right now :P < 1300034196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason there isn't an IOC++CC is that it'd be too easy < 1300034199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, almost-implementing it) < 1300034213 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you're not implementing it :P < 1300034219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close enough < 1300034222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Basically DECLARE() lets you do a let block :P < 1300034232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a for loop that only runs for one iteration. < 1300034234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, two. But. < 1300034265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello.c++:50:5: error: invalid use of ‘auto’ < 1300034274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the 23498723489234 errors are from that same line and column :P < 1300034296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello.c++:50:5: error: request for member ‘fake’ in ‘declare__variable__4’, which is of non-class type ‘int’ < 1300034297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um ... < 1300034303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for (declare_variable declare__variable__##i_(value_); \ < 1300034306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't look like it from here, bro. < 1300034322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless I'm using templates wrong :P < 1300034340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: C++ is my favourite esolang < 1300034350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1300034385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, last Thursday I actually saw Valgrind tell off one of my students (it was running on a CUDA program, which is basically C with some extra constructs) < 1300034406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"More than 10000000 errors detected. Future errors will not be reported. Go fix your program!" or something like that < 1300034485 0 :cheater97!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1300034510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily, it didn't try to print all of the ten million previous errors < 1300034513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or we'd have been there for ages < 1300034524 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how... < 1300034535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1300034550 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is, how did they keep it running while producing all these errors < 1300034583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1300034583 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cleverly mismanaging memory not to crash? < 1300034590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :structs can be templated right? :) < 1300034591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a bit of context, as far as I can tell the program was an attempt to write a complicated program in one go without even intermediate compiles < 1300034595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :followed by fixing all the compile errors < 1300034603 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, structs are classes that default to public < 1300034606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1300034608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just checking < 1300034632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and getting really basic things wrong, like mixing up pointers to CPU and GPU memory (which point into entirely different memory spaces) < 1300034709 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10000000 is easy to get in a big program < 1300034729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a big, really broken < 1300034730 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just have a bunch of loops with off-by-one accesses < 1300034734 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me of a story from uni, they had an intern there to write a new system for doing computer exams (get assignment from server, submit solutions, get graded, kind of thing) < 1300034747 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't even manifest as broken, necessarily < 1300034756 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he coded for half a year or something, in Ada (because that's what he knew) never compiled anything once < 1300034769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Ehh... maybe if you had one really long loop :P < 1300034777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: and it worked the first time? < 1300034777 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then sent it to his supervisor and said "here you go, it's done now" < 1300034780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's Ada, after all! < 1300034792 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, no single part of it worked, obviously < 1300034801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1300034806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's not what the Ada people told me! < 1300034814 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, but the overall edifice? < 1300034820 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Five reads and five writes a million times isn't "really long" :-P < 1300034820 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Ada works if you get it to compile < 1300034832 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BORROMEAN PROGRAM < 1300034846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yeah right. < 1300034857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find the class ofbugs Ada tackles to be shallow and solved at the wrong level. < 1300034874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The solution to mixing up loop indices is to make them unnecessary in 99% of cases (by adding foreach), not by giving them types :P < 1300034892 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people use to say the same things about Ada and Haskell, "hard as hell to make anything compile but when it does it works" < 1300034925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell does a better job of it than Agda IMO :P < 1300034927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1300034928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Than Ada. < 1300034932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though not perfect. < 1300034942 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, haskell does it way better < 1300034969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If GHC turned its warnings about incomplete pattern matches into errors, it'd do a much better job. < 1300034975 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait; the compiler doesn't separately type CPU and GPU memory? < 1300034976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it stands, it does a better job if you use -Wall and religiously fix those mistakes. < 1300034979 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are phantom types regularly used? < 1300034983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(-Werror might be a bit much, GHC likes to warn a lot in my experience.) < 1300034991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Ha ha ha < 1300034996 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Ada is roughly equivalent to C++ in type safety, but Ada makes the unsafe stuff look worse by making it slightly more explicit and giving it scarier names < 1300035038 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell has unsafe stuff too... < 1300035040 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how good a job does Agda do :P < 1300035058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I cannot possibly answer ;P < 1300035059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P < 1300035132 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: so? pretty much everything has unsafe stuff... < 1300035135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct declare_variable { < 1300035135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : A value; < 1300035135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : bool fake; < 1300035135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : declare_variable(A value) < 1300035135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : : value(value), fake(true) < 1300035136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : {} < 1300035138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}; < 1300035140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1300035145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if that constructor might be wrong :P < 1300035171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Oh, and if Haskell removed error and undefined. < 1300035180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Using exceptions everywhere instead -- ugly, but.) < 1300035198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, you still have halting for _|_, but that's a lesser problem than e.g. each div requiring an if :P) < 1300035215 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, aren't error and undefined already exceptions? < 1300035227 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but iirc you can only catch exceptions in IO < 1300035260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Does bsnes no longer support .sfc or something? X_X < 1300035266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It refuses to show them in this directory list. < 1300035273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Well, yeah... < 1300035279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: But they're not USEFUL exceptions :P < 1300035286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. ones you can catch individually < 1300035302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Oh, and as hateful as it would be, something like Java's throws declarations in the type. < 1300035336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With those three changes (force all pattern-matching to be complete, remove error and undefined, add "throws" declarations to function types) Haskell would do a way, way better job than Ada. < 1300035400 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that supposed to be Ada or Agda? :P < 1300035406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ada :P < 1300035500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: wait; the compiler doesn't separately type CPU and GPU memory? <--- it's designed to be similar to C, you'd expect it to? < 1300035510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically just C with a few extra keywords and templates < 1300035544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :templates? < 1300035553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, C++-style < 1300035558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not C :) < 1300035569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it doesn't steal most other C++ features < 1300035571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that one < 1300035584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you use a c++ compiler with all the non-template stuff taken out? < 1300035586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds awkward :-P < 1300035589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it uses "nvcc" < 1300035599 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I think expands to "NVidia C Compiler" < 1300035607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not entirely sure what, if anything, it's based on < 1300035619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so it actually has C++ templates? < 1300035649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it's all the same features, because C++ is insane < 1300035663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does the basic stuff, with the same syntax as C++ < 1300035663 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if it has templates in particular, I'd expect it to type them differently, yes < 1300035683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointers aren't templates < 1300035686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the templates might only take things like integers as parameters, not class names, due to not having classes and structs not really being the same < 1300035696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1300035700 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-199-145.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300035738 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, but you could use templates to overload on GPU/CPU pointers < 1300035738 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1300035764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes, but (1) that sounds gross and (2) those wouldn't look like normal pointers < 1300035766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpu pointer: int *foo; < 1300035771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gpu pointer: oh_god_the_pain foo; < 1300035785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you wouldn't be able to index one of them < 1300035792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to C not having operator overloading < 1300035798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"int gpu *" would make sense, or "gpu int *" < 1300035803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure which would be appropriate < 1300035817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would make proper sense is using a language with real types and so avoiding C backwards compat entirely :) < 1300035875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, all this is far too high a level, they should be using Checkout < 1300035883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except there aren't any impls of it yet < 1300035914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcd.com/863/ ;; this is actually a good comic < 1300035930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no punchline, but amusing and pretty well-paced < 1300035934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: clearly < 1300035945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: of course functional languages are uniquely suited to GPUs >:) < 1300035952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (functional languages that compile to Checkout, of course) < 1300035975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I use phantom types occasionally < 1300035989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Haskell parallelizes better than, say, Python < 1300035993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they're not really strictly phantom types < 1300035996 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, I would hope that gpu pointers would just be a keyword < 1300036009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the point is that GPUs are essentially 349857349857394579834579835789347598347598347598347598347593475934857349573985-threaded CPUs :) < 1300036020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with CPUs, automatic parallelisation is infeasible < 1300036024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's too few threads to prioritise well < 1300036037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they typically only actually run 256 threads at a time < 1300036042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but that's still a ton < 1300036044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the interesting work is in switching between them quickly < 1300036061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. each thread has its own set of registers, to avoid having to save them anywhere when context switching < 1300036067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a context switch can be done in a single clock cycle < 1300036090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is insane < 1300036108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how fast is spawning a thread on a GPU, incidentally? < 1300036136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're spawned statically, you need to work out how many you want in advance then they all spawn at once < 1300036141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see parloop/4 < 1300036168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you have no threads, creating up to around a million threads can be done in a few microseconds < 1300036182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1300036184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although ofc that number can't run simultaneously, and will be somewhat sequentialised < 1300036206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, are GPUs good at anything OTHER than embarrassingly parallel problems? :) < 1300036210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1300036216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1300036217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it doesn't have to be embarassingly parallel < 1300036224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being moderately parallel is enough to have gains < 1300036234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, can you even DO shared memory on a gpu? < 1300036234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it still needs to parallelize somewhat < 1300036244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but it's slow and messy < 1300036254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what checkout/2 between 3 and 5 does < 1300036254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : being moderately parallel is enough to have gains < 1300036273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um I just mean embarrassingly as in what was i going to say ... < 1300036283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in no communication between tasks < 1300036295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, "embarassingly parallel" is a technical term, as in doubling every element in an array < 1300036298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. each thread completely independent of the others < 1300036299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep < 1300036310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tasks like adding every element in an array together aren't embarassingly parallel, yet GPUs are still quite good at them < 1300036320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1300036328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(divide the array into N segments, sum sequentially, sum the results?) < 1300036331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sum sequentially as in < 1300036333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sum each segment in a thread < 1300036337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the thread does it sequentially < 1300036340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's much more complex than that < 1300036347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1300036357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when you take thread blocks into account < 1300036369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are groups of threads that are capable of cooperating closely, and have fast shared memory between them < 1300036374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(those are the /3s of Checkout) < 1300036375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I think every embarrassingly parallel problem takes the form of a pmap < 1300036385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. map that does every application in a thread < 1300036406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, those sort of problems actually miss much of the point of GPUs < 1300036410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because block memory is so massively important < 1300036417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : which are groups of threads that are capable of cooperating closely, and have fast shared memory between them < 1300036419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me guess < 1300036426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPUs are bad at subtracting an entire array? < 1300036430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. this relies on commutativity :) < 1300036442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does subtracting an entire array even mean? < 1300036450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: umm, what does adding an entire array mean? < 1300036451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :summing it < 1300036458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subtracting an entire array = fold (-) something array < 1300036470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or negating every element than summing < 1300036478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that just negates the zero) < 1300036484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is that that is pretty much a commutative operation < 1300036490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, well, depends on your fold I guess < 1300036494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not really < 1300036499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the result on [a,b,c,d] != the result on [a,c,b,d] < 1300036515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so you couldn't do even a small chunk in parallel using fast shared memory < 1300036515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a-b-c-d = a-c-b-d < 1300036519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you'd have to synchronise them < 1300036528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, a-(b-(c-d)) < 1300036534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!= (a-(c-(b-d))) < 1300036545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's a + -b + c + -d + e + -f + g + -h, etc < 1300036550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, right < 1300036561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which still commutes pretty nicely, as you have information about which index into the original array an element is < 1300036588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES but I mean if you took the summing algorithm < 1300036592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and replaced the + sign with a - < 1300036594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it'd break < 1300036609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I bet it depends on all threads in a thread group being able to add to the shared counter without worrying about synchronisation < 1300036621 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's obvious that the votes for Reddit comments would decrease the further down the tree you went, but it interests me for some reason. < 1300036624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually works in pairs < 1300036638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you do ((a+b) + (c+d)) + ((e+f) + (g+h)), etc < 1300036652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing that within a block by first using all threads, then half the threads, then a quarter of the threads, etc. < 1300036672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1300036675 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you know when something is commutative though? < 1300036679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and down to the warp level (that's a /2), you can do conditionals on threads and actually save time < 1300036688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ais523 is describing a sum algorithm, not a general fold < 1300036695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :replacing all that with ((a-b) + (c-d)) + ((e-f) + (g-h)) is obviously trivial < 1300036704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, general folds don't parallelize < 1300036713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously a Ridiculously High Level GPU Language would have a fold that's parameterised on the function type < 1300036728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., if you want to fold \a.\b.(md5sum(a) + md5sum(b)) < 1300036730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a rule that for every function you've proved/assumed (as axiom) commutative < 1300036732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses the fancy sum algo < 1300036732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1300036777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the algo's much fancier than that, though, to use memory properly < 1300036781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so did Erlang inspire Checkout? :-P < 1300036784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1300036790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but the /N after a function name! < 1300036796 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is checkout? < 1300036801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was inspired pretty much entirely by a) CUDA, b) actual GPU architecture < 1300036808 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Checkout < 1300036811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I noticed that was the same syntax as Prolog, but it's a different meaning < 1300036815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I just liked the way it looked < 1300036824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I wouldn't be surprised at all if Erlang stole the syntax from Prolog < 1300036830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it stole most of its syntax from Prolog < 1300036842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for no obvious reason, given that the two languages are quite different in most other respects < 1300036844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1300036846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erlang stole it from prolog < 1300036850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erlang's relationship to prolog is so weir < 1300036851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1300036852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*weird < 1300036854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1300036856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and I wouldn't be surprised at all if Erlang stole the syntax from Prolog < 1300036857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : because it stole most of its syntax from Prolog < 1300036857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for no obvious reason, given that the two languages are quite different in most other respects < 1300036858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not read these lines < 1300036861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote my lines before reading them < 1300036865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1300036879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keeping up this elliott alter ego is more trouble than it's worth for me, ais523 < 1300036880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1300036889 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1300036891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to clarify < 1300036893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am ais523's alter ego < 1300036894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1300036898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no he isn't < 1300036914 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you can say CUDA C has templates; I mean, it has that <<>> notation to do the threads, but it's really quite far from templates. (At least as far as the C-like CUDA 1.x is concerned; I don't really know much about the 2.x "pretty much runs C++ on the GPU" CUDA.) < 1300036953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no, it has the template<> notation as well < 1300036955 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1300036961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is separate from the <<<>>> notation for running things on a GPU < 1300036974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even in 1.2, IIRC < 1300037014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it still has the > > vs. >> parsing nonsense < 1300037101 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, it's in Appendix D, "C++ language constructs for device code". Well-hidden. But according to this it does operator overloading too. < 1300037104 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1300037114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has nobody got the memo to stop using <> for parens in C? < 1300037154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently not < 1300037159 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1300037165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least <<< >>> is distinctive and obviously different from a regular function call < 1300037167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello.c++:50:5: error: invalid use of ‘auto’ < 1300037168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh joy < 1300037177 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god songs of praise is on < 1300037179 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaa < 1300037185 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brain.... melting.... < 1300037205 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flashbacks... overwhelming.... < 1300037206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :litb geordi: { auto(69); } < 1300037206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :geordi error: invalid use of 'auto' < 1300037207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks google < 1300037224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: plz stop talking so much in #c++-f so i can grep things more easily in logs found by google < 1300037224 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only templates it does is function templates, though, so you couldn't do a template-driven fake-pointer. < 1300037230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I use an O(n) grep. Totally.) < 1300037239 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must... remote... < 1300037240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: < 1300037251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct coppro { void *ptr; } < 1300037254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1300037256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't even be < 1300037256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1300037257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore me < 1300037271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(coppro is my new metasyntactic variable when talking about anything vaguely related to C++) < 1300037302 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could define new operators for a struct coppro, though, so maybe with the preprocessor you could manually construct fake-pointers like that. < 1300037314 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(To point at different data types, I mean.) < 1300037335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1300037338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_nesting_ DECLARE doesn't work < 1300037354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait no < 1300037355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1300037364 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : win 8 < 1300037372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's using auto that doesn't work < 1300037373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: lose 8 < 1300037381 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong < 1300037453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: not wrong < 1300037487 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY TUBES ARE CLOGGED < 1300037491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1300037500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: is "auto" not a valid template argument, O C++0x Oracle? < 1300037503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. foo < 1300037516 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are correct < 1300037535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that's laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame < 1300037559 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the hell would that even work < 1300037567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it'd infer the right argument!! < 1300037569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using magic < 1300037570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh LOL < 1300037576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"auto declare__variable__0(4)" < 1300037579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not going to work :) < 1300037582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to explicitly construct... < 1300037625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wtf < 1300037632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you can't even say "foo(X)" :( < 1300037656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'll use __typeof__. < 1300037772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah well, I bet coppro couldn't write this macro himself anyway. HMPH < 1300037830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, it works with __typeof__. < 1300037863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Well, almost." < 1300037950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello.c++:51:22: error: expected primary-expression before ‘<<’ token < 1300037950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : o_O < 1300037952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*o_O < 1300037972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess __typeof__ is resulting in something starting with a <> somehow < 1300038068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH no that's from the loop body. < 1300038138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT WORKS < 1300038175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: olsner: anyone who has ever coded C++ ever: ais523: http://sprunge.us/fhXB < 1300038180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOUR LANGUAGE IS AT MY KNEES < 1300038206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably make a WITH_COUNTER :P < 1300038376 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088172176.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1300038623 0 :azaq23!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1300038639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know if there is any way to get cpp to omit the contents of included files in its output? < 1300038643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: < 1300038648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SEE ALSO < 1300038648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : gpl(7), gfdl(7), fsf-funding(7), gcc(1), as(1), ld(1), and the Info entries for cpp, gcc, and binutils. < 1300038648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--man cpp(1) < 1300038656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bottom of gcc(1), too :P < 1300038754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you mean, just expanding macros and ignoring the declarations < 1300038765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could try using -imacros on the command line rather than #include in the file itself < 1300038769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, just whenever it sees #include, < 1300038776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the included files? < 1300038777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it loads all the macro definitions from the file < 1300038780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but does not spit it out in the output < 1300038790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can do "cpp foo.c" without everything in my scrollback being eaten < 1300038795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of 345893475349873897593759834597349834573497535 lines of system headers < 1300038839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: imacros is perfect < 1300038843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'd prefer it apply to all includes < 1300038846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to have to write them all out < 1300038858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, there doesn't seem to be an option to do it automatically, unfortunately < 1300038899 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using -P too would help reduce the length, it omits the generated #line directives < 1300038919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, apparently modifying specs files makes gcc developers refuse to provide support < 1300038924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably even if you just add -static... < 1300038940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's because the way gcc uses them is insane < 1300038963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's because they're not a "public interface", apparently < 1300038969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes them... fairly pointless < 1300039096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow, I've actually run into the "NO RECURSION" cpp thing while legitimately trying to tidy up my code < 1300039101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define WITH_COUNTER(f_, ...) WITH_COUNTER_(f_, __COUNTER__, ## __VA_ARGS__) < 1300039101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define WITH_COUNTER_(f_, counter_, ...) WITH_COUNTER__(f_, counter_, ## __VA_ARGS__) < 1300039101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define WITH_COUNTER__(f_, counter_, ...) f_(counter_, ## __VA_ARGS__) < 1300039102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used like < 1300039106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define DECLARE(...) WITH_COUNTER(DECLARE_, ## __VA_ARGS__) < 1300039106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define DECLARE_(i_, name_, value_) ... < 1300039111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any WITH_COUNTER'd function < 1300039116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't call any other function that uses WITH_COUNTER < 1300039121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's using WITH_COUNTER more than once < 1300039123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ridiculous < 1300039315 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-193-92.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300039320 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1300039638 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an easy way to get ANSI.SYS to start working in Windows? I need dem escape codes. < 1300039660 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This probably isn't the best place to ask this... < 1300039671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the best advice I can give if you need the full range is "use DOSBox" < 1300039679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Windows terminal does do some of them, though, like color < 1300039732 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, color _might_ be good enough if I just clear the screen instead of repositionnig the cursor... < 1300039742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1300039749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use a vt100 emulator :P < 1300039769 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm making console Lua programs. < 1300039781 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implementing ALAGUF < 1300039829 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300039878 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted where the IP was to be color-inverted; also displaying ALAGUF output is *a lot* easier with curos repositioning < 1300039886 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can do without < 1300039948 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a thing to putty to use it as a terminal for cygwin; but, well, cygwin... < 1300040095 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And of course if you bother with cygwin you could just use its xterm.) < 1300040162 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to make it system-independant, but Windows is dumb in not supporting ANSI. < 1300040172 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should get a new OS. < 1300040242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iconmaster: vt100s are just ANSI emulators for the most part... < 1300040258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vt100 terminal emulators, that is. < 1300040341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody uses the Windows terminal for anything, pretty much < 1300040348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including Windows programmers < 1300040358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who either use a GUI, or a better terminal emulator < 1300040444 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | actually saunalahti means a lahti containing a sauna < 1300040445 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Re your earlier thing, you can do something like this to get whatever's in test.c, preprocessed, after the last #include in it: gcc -E test.c | grep -A 10000 '# '`gcc -E test.c | grep -E '# [0-9]+ "test.c"' | cut -d ' ' -f 2 | tail -n 1`' "test.c"' < 1300040463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Heh, nice. < 1300040472 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder: Does PowerShell terminal support ANSI? I have that installed... < 1300040476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Doesn't work if you use -P, but you can process those afterwords, I suppose. < 1300040477 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leme check < 1300040479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iconmaster: It just uses cmd.exe... < 1300040486 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh... < 1300040496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmd.exe is the emulator, COMMAND.COM the command interpreter (though I think the latter has a different name nowadays) < 1300040510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hesitate to call cmd.exe a terminal and draw the line at calling COMMAND.COM a shell < 1300040600 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If Powershell dosn't have ANSI, that how does *it* use colors in its error messages? Direct BIOS calls, most like. < 1300040632 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1300040643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iconmaster: Uh, Windows' terminal does colours. < 1300040650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the BIOS can't do anything to cmd.exe. < 1300040667 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do anything in a console window using the console API; that's what you're "supposed" to use in a console app. < 1300040669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bug is in your code, I suspect. < 1300040673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hmm. < 1300040677 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh... < 1300040680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure colours don't work by default? < 1300040683 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for some values of "supposed". < 1300040685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, can't be. Cygwin's bash.exe works. < 1300040690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually, for added confusion, cmd.exe is also a shell that's different from command.com < 1300040691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In both a vt100 and the Windows terminal. < 1300040699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, similar but different syntax < 1300040700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I very much doubt that it has Windows code to do that :) < 1300040703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: joy < 1300040706 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Colors might work, I don't know about that. It was more of a general comment, if you need complicated things. < 1300040838 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1300040850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetHack works in the Windows terminal < 1300040859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a result of a crazy amount of specialcasing, IIRC < 1300040864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can restrict itself to just the subset that works < 1300040868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardly anything else does, though < 1300040881 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you directly WriteConsole in a console window, it doesn't support any escape codes at all, but I guess there might well be something somewhere in-between so that "regular" console output can use some control codes. < 1300040932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think bsnes hates me. < 1300041007 0 :Behold!~behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1300041012 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1300041012 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1300041032 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1300041040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it might actually be a bug in bsnes < 1300041138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I believe so < 1300041152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the file browser window is being created with no title, and thus the filter isn't working < 1300041182 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, the win/tty/wintty.c defined(WIN32CON) snippets seem very nice. There's one in tty_askname() that does backsp(); (void) putchar(' '); backsp(); after receiving a \b or \177 with the comment "\b is visible on NT". < 1300041196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how that makes no sense at all. < 1300041215 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: In any case it seems to use the proper Win32 console API with the functions from sys/winnt/nttty.c. < 1300041228 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(To move the cursor and such.) < 1300041237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, it works even over telnet < 1300041239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you can't use the API < 1300041243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what really impresses me < 1300041396 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The Windows "telnet" console app parses ANSI. It even does four different terminal types (vt100, vt52, ansi, vtnt). < 1300041410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I didn't know that < 1300041418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, vt52? < 1300041425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? < 1300041614 0 :FlyingTortilla!~chatzilla@host86-135-139-86.range86-135.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1300041661 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For all those people who have to telnet to pre-1978 systems that don't know about this newfangled VT100 family. < 1300041673 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: installing a z80 emulator.... My FAV ML! < 1300041811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, my compile of bsnes is either ridiculously buggy, or v076 is < 1300041824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, iconmaster has to quit to do things with his computer. clearly. < 1300041839 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300041887 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly yet another offshoot of ML. < 1300041903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Z80 is a dialect of ML. < 1300041904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ML and z80 machine language are both pretty clean languages < 1300041922 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps the dialect of ML used by the Venezuelan Air Force. < 1300042013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, bsnes doesn't even load a word at a time from memory. < 1300042022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It literally reads words byte-by-byte. < 1300042028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably because you can override individual bytes of RAM, < 1300042030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*RAM. < 1300042036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with a coprocessor) < 1300042039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I guess?) < 1300042056 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, the VTNT terminal doesn't use escape codes either: instead, all output is sent wrappend inside VTNT_CHAR_INFO structures, that specifies stuff like the coordinates of a rectangle where the output goes; and followed by an array of 32-bit VTNT_SINGLE_CHAR values that have a 16-bit character code and 16 bits of attributes. < 1300042063 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if anyone really uses that thing anywhere. < 1300042065 0 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@209.150.235.10 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300042089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and are they just fwrite()ten versions of internal Windows structures? < 1300042092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VTNT : VTNT - VT[5] community mailing list < 1300042093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18 Oct 1999 ... A low-noise mailing list focusing on using the Video Toaster NT. < 1300042093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :groups.yahoo.com/groups/VTNT/ - Cached < 1300042093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :► < 1300042093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VTNT Terminal < 1300042093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VTNT Terminal. VTNT terminal emulation is an extension to the Telnet Terminal Type Option standard (RFC 884), which is part of the Telnet protocol family of ... < 1300042096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms819760.aspx - Cached - Similar < 1300042098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly NetHack runs on a toaster. < 1300042100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Video Toaster, but a toaster. < 1300042118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "fwrite()ten" o_o < 1300042122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does "low-noise" there actually mean "low-traffic"? < 1300042128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not obvious where to put the parens < 1300042135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fwritte()n"? < 1300042143 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't recognize them, but of course they might well be. They're not exactly the console API structures, I think. < 1300042143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fwrite()d < 1300042194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ouch, that's not how you take the past tense of "write" at all < 1300042209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's okay, because you're not taken the past tense of write. < 1300042212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're taking < 1300042216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're taking the past tense of fwrite(). < 1300042226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I call multiple computer mouses "mouses" when I remember to, too. < 1300042228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the same word. < 1300042311 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: .sfc is the only extension it does support. < 1300042319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Yep. The code is buggy or my gcc is ludicrously buggy. < 1300042333 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, fuck DST so much. < 1300042336 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a "vtnt" terminfo entry in this here database, but it's just "ms-vt100-color|vtnt|windows 2000 ansi (sic)" and I don't think it does what telnet does in "vtnt" mode. < 1300042340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: The Load Cartridge window was created without a title. < 1300042347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: The function that adds the filename extension to the list, < 1300042350 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1300042352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also set the title of the (terrible, BTW) file chooser. < 1300042365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I checked what called that; it was another internal file-chooser function. < 1300042367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used a switch statement. < 1300042375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The case that added .sfc and set the title... < 1300042382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...was on the value it was called with directly in the menu code. < 1300042390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr: Evidently switch() compiles incorrectly. < 1300042416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Anyway, I then made it show every file just for testing; upon picking the ROM, bsnes emulated 41 FPS' worth of a black screen. < 1300042420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something Is Horribly Wrong. < 1300042436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I found a seeded version of that torrent, NO THANKS TO YOU. :p < 1300042479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Maybe I should use gcc 4.4 instead of 4.5, but I don't think 4.4 has dem lambadas. < 1300042611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, bsnes wants 4.5. < 1300042670 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I strongly suspect you got an invalid ROM? < 1300042694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do realise you aren't supposed to be discussing this on Freenode, right? < 1300042727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Who said it was a torrent of commercial games? < 1300042732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not said any such thing. < 1300042738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1300042763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: It was absolutely not the complete No-Info set circa 2010. < 1300042765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but non-commercial SNES games are nearly always distributed as a set of patches < 1300042777 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ... No, just non-commercial mods. < 1300042791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: It was by BitTorrent, so all the contents were verified. < 1300042793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people write non-commercial SNES games from scratch? < 1300042797 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1300042798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Besides, like I said, the file chooser thing was fucked up. < 1300042803 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not *many*, but yes. < 1300042804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the code was perfectly OK. < 1300042812 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more demos than anything else, TBH. < 1300042814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in conclusion, WTF GCC. < 1300042878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's Ubuntu's default gcc flags. < 1300042903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something -Bsymbolic-functions-related, perhaps. < 1300042926 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://byuusan.kuro-hitsuji.net.nyud.net/blargg_near_cd_quality2.7z Well, here's a simple audio demo you could try that I know for a fact works in BSNES. < 1300042936 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And only BSNES and a real SNES. :) < 1300043007 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(has lower sound quality on SNES9x, *is pain and agony* on ZSNES) < 1300043015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Do you have an .sfc file matching the pattern "C* T* (U*)" whose hash is de5822f4f2f7a55acb8926d4c0eaa63d5d989312? < 1300043058 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which hashing scheme? < 1300043067 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :md5? < 1300043067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Oh, sorry. SHA-1. < 1300043070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1300043085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I drove ais away. :p < 1300043096 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes I do. < 1300043096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That .7z contains an smc, anyway, which I don't believe bsnes supports. < 1300043107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Then my gcc is definitely the issue. < 1300043113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And gcc massively miscompiling is definitely esoteric. < 1300043122 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blame Ubuntu. < 1300043140 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know *what* they did to be worthy of blame, but they're an easy target. < 1300043165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Weeeeeeeeeell. < 1300043168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://wiki.kubuntu.org/CompilerFlags < 1300043182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do any of -fstack-protector, -Wl,-z,relro or -Bsymbolic-functions break bsnes? :P < 1300043240 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I *do* know that bsnes relies on fucking with the stack. < 1300043252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Indeed; it uses -fomit-frame-pointer, which scares me. < 1300043279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, symbolic functions aren't even used I think. < 1300043284 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-fomit-frame-pointer *only* screws up debugging on some architectures. < 1300043294 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is literally the only downside. < 1300043312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Then what's your better guess of why this is totally broken? < 1300043325 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. BSNES's simple multithreading library works by swapping the stack. < 1300043333 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm willing to bet that GCC is fucking with that. < 1300043350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Mm, but the Makefile specifically selects gcc-4.5 for Linux. < 1300043364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *suppose* a Debian or Ubuntu patch could break it, but... < 1300043368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Also, wait, what? < 1300043373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: This is a *UI* bug, for one! < 1300043374 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Namely, one of -fstack-protector of -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 < 1300043377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before it even emulates ANYTHING! < 1300043380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And fortify source is just about warnings. < 1300043381 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh. < 1300043398 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE adds runtime checks. < 1300043403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Like I said, somehow the filter isn't getting added despite the call being totally cromulent. < 1300043405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, indeed. < 1300043427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Observe: < 1300043444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void FileBrowser::fileOpen(FileBrowser::Mode requestedMode, function requestedCallback) { < 1300043444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1300043445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : switch(mode = requestedMode) { < 1300043445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case Mode::Cartridge: { < 1300043445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : setTitle("Load Cartridge"); < 1300043445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : filters.append(".sfc"); < 1300043446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : break; < 1300043448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1300043450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The call is: < 1300043463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : systemLoadCartridge.onTick = []() { < 1300043463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fileBrowser.fileOpen(FileBrowser::Mode::Cartridge, [](string filename) { < 1300043464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cartridge.loadNormal(filename); < 1300043464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : }); < 1300043466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : }; < 1300043468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet no title is being set, and no filter is being added. < 1300043491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can think of *exactly one* way this could possibly happen, and that doesn't explain the emulation not working. < 1300043502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one way is: < 1300043509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if(mode == requestedMode && folder == config.path.current) { < 1300043509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : setVisible(); < 1300043509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : contentsBox.setFocused(); < 1300043509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return; < 1300043509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1300043523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : enum class Mode : unsigned { Cartridge, Satellaview, SufamiTurbo, GameBoy, Filter, Shader } mode; < 1300043536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what... < 1300043550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :byuu, you fucked up mode initialisation,. < 1300043551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1300043577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: tl;dr value initialises to 0, 0 is Cartridge. < 1300043583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It thinks it's already in Cartridge, fails to initialise. < 1300043593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This doesn't explain the emulation bug, but does make me think that byuu might fail at them programmings. < 1300043704 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1300043839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This class is terrible, I blame byuu. < 1300043846 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300044013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I conclude that this compile is awesomely fucked. < 1300044390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Last day of optbot was 09.01.03. < 1300044391 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: from hehkua, which is glow i think < 1300044398 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: To answer your comparison to EgoBot: ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? EgoBot was set up to make sure the topic mentioned that this was a channel on esoteric programming and that it had the logs, it was NOT set up to make the topic be random fucking bullshit no matter what somebody puts there. < 1300044405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, "really" 08.11.15 or so. < 1300044407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It was a joke. < 1300044409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note the ":P". < 1300044446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, basically, over three months. Also, you care about the topic way too much. < 1300044454 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, make optbot togglable. < 1300044455 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: below 0: if the subtraction causes a borrow < 1300044467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Nah, I like it. < 1300044478 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care so much what the topic is, I would just much rather we allow it to be human rather than some random bullshit. < 1300044484 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we really *want* a specific topic, we should be able to keep it. < 1300044492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm going to assume that the many people who talked to optbot didn't outright hate it either :P < 1300044493 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh right < 1300044496 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, well, actually saunalahti means a lahti containing a sauna < 1300044502 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People like to set the topic. And it's fine to see the topic change. It's NOT fine to see some topic you put up change for NO FUCKING REASON. < 1300044505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I'll turn optbot off if the topic becomes like... vital information to donate money to save someone's life? < 1300044506 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nowadays, that's computer related stuff ;) < 1300044543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Uhh, people put up plenty of topics when optbot was around, the fact is that the topic rate turnover then was more than once per six hours and it generally is now too, so optbot doesn't really hide the topic any more than anything else. < 1300044544 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: j-invariant: why? < 1300044610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear it seemed like more than three months, mind you... < 1300044617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The channel was very active then though. < 1300044622 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Except that, to repeat myself again, optbot's topics are RANDOM. It's fine for the topic turnover to be high when PEOPLE are setting the topic. It would even be fine if it was a friendly AI (lols). Instead what we have is human topics being replaced by random lines from the log? WHY? < 1300044622 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: is that like /usr/local? < 1300044631 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: NO YOU FUCKING ASSHAT IT ISN'T :P < 1300044632 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :D < 1300044642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Because optbot is entertaining and says entertaining things. < 1300044642 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: apart from that? < 1300044648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This has been proved by three-month experiment. < 1300044661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the same reason fungot has a lot of quotes in the QDB, because these things are funny. < 1300044662 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because objects are " reference types" in java. :d), i really like some features of vim, however, is that < 1300044677 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SAYING things can be funny, but the topic is not PRIVMSG. < 1300044728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Actually optbot has produced many entertaining topics before and will do so in the future. < 1300044728 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: < 1300044732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again, 3-month experiment. :p < 1300044776 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, plus, when people complained about EgoBot's topic changing, I TURNED THAT FEATURE OFF. < 1300044776 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the point is that it overrides whatever has gone before. < 1300044787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: HOW MANY TIMES TO I HAVE TO POINT OUT THAT IT WAS A JOKE BEFORE YOU STOP YELLING ABOUT IT < 1300044801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: plz 2 be reading the things i say before replying kthx < 1300044845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Which bsnes are you using? I'm pretty sure this version is buggy. < 1300044886 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I had been using 0.73, for lack of GCC 4.5. < 1300044897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Isn't that super old? < 1300044901 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's not in Debian Testing yet, and I don't feel like building it myself) < 1300044910 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, a couple months old. < 1300044918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in testing now. < 1300044928 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, GCC 4.5, not BSNES 0.73. < 1300044937 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Orly? < 1300044937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean bsnes, yeah. < 1300044941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/gcc-4.5.html < 1300044942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Orly. < 1300044945 0 :cheater00!~cheater@e181137050.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300044945 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/CAlZJ.jpg < 1300044947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: You're probably on squeeze, which is stable. < 1300044948 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure enough. < 1300044951 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LUDICROUSLY UNSAFE < 1300044952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to wheezy, which is testing. < 1300044959 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They aren't even wearing gloves! < 1300044960 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on wheezy. < 1300044966 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For *foil*! < 1300044969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wheezy, cough, splutter. < 1300044976 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION installs gcc-4.5
< 1300044991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Do try bsnes v076 and tell me if it works :P < 1300044995 0 :cheater97!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1300045013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Also, do this to memory/memory.cpp line 48: < 1300045014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : destaddr = mirror(base + offset++, length); < 1300045014 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, sometimes I love chess < 1300045014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : //offset = (offset + 1) % length; < 1300045019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bug acknowledged/fixed by byuu. < 1300045019 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I earned a resignation in 10 moves < 1300045019 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is kjournald 75% of my file I/O ... < 1300045030 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right, that bug. < 1300045041 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't it be sort of limited by the amount of legit disk I/O that's done? < 1300045316 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The *fuck*, man. < 1300045324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: HAHA TOLD YOU < 1300045327 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Oh, I see*. < 1300045334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Yes, it's initialised to Cartridge. < 1300045340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: But even fixing the file selection bug, EMULATION DOESN'T WORK. < 1300045343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least of C* T* (U*). < 1300045346 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's going really slow due to defaulting to the accuracy profile. < 1300045352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, _really_ slow? < 1300045356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a pretty fast machine. < 1300045365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I have to wait like 30 seconds for it to start? < 1300045369 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the accuracy profile is insane. < 1300045370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: BTW, did the file selector work for you?! < 1300045378 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it did. < 1300045393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: o_O < 1300045397 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries the compatibility profile
< 1300045400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Anyway, I get 41-43 FPS. < 1300045404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When starting C* T* (U*). < 1300045404 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1300045411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Not that it ever _starts_. < 1300045414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if I get FPS like that... < 1300045422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely it should be starting the actual game quickly? < 1300045511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: ASKING QUESTIONS HERE :P < 1300045576 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh. < 1300045578 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beats me. < 1300045580 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1300045586 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But try profile=compatibility? < 1300045609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will. But I strongly suspect a broken compiler or something if the file selector is broken. < 1300045648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Kay. < 1300045655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Testing now. < 1300045660 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :My computer is possessed by the Ancient Spirit of ALGOL | Bless�d be his name | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ < 1300045668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1300045788 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1300045824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Same blank screen with compatibility. < 1300045826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But higher FPS. < 1300045832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's emulating, just not... blitting the emulation to my screen. < 1300045837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BYUU, YOUR UI IS SO BROKEN. < 1300045851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Can I have a binary with profile=accuracy? :-P < 1300045856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on x86-64 Ubuntu, so it should work on my machine too. < 1300045859 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hit "advanced options" and try a different video driver? < 1300045863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did that already. < 1300045864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't help. < 1300045867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the file selector bug is still there. < 1300045877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I conclude that my compiler or something is fucked, so your binary would be appreciated :P < 1300045881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least until I debug further. < 1300045899 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Do you have RAM restrictions per bot or just for the whole thing < 1300045968 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Got a simple way of getting it to you? < 1300045979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Is email acceptable? < 1300045989 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1300045990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "Uh oh". < 1300045997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: penguinofthegods@gmail.com :) < 1300046007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If Yet Another Person asks me wtf is with my email, I will kill them. < 1300046056 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hrm. < 1300046069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1300046072 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not getting past the very first bit in Super Mario Kart. < 1300046073 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Per bot; the two competitors are run as completely different processes. < 1300046087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I'll try 'nother ROM myself. < 1300046088 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: (The time limit is based on ulimit'ing CPU time to one hour.) < 1300046095 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ah, so the 256 megs is for just the bot? < 1300046099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Most people seem fine with this release, so clearly our compilers are SO FUCKED UP, SO FUCKED UP. < 1300046109 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works just fine with Chrono Trigger. < 1300046109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Is this the FANCY TOURNAMENT? < 1300046132 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, there's a small stub to accept situations from stdin and write moves to stdout, but that's not going to use very much memory. < 1300046151 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Depends on what's fancy and what's not < 1300046180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: SMW does the same black screen thing, so yeah. < 1300046188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your binary is more working than mine :P < 1300046194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: gcc --version? < 1300046205 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc (Debian 4.4.5-13) 4.4.5 < 1300046217 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Super Mario World *also* works just fine. < 1300046233 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd bet SMK is a DSP issue. < 1300046246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc (Ubuntu/Linaro 4.4.4-14ubuntu5) 4.4.5 < 1300046248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1300046253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I wouldn't mind your binary still, then. :p < 1300046258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll compile my own 4.5 later. < 1300046260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And test that. < 1300046260 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :En route. < 1300046350 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: http://p.zem.fi/ts0k.java -- this plus whatever code you write is run under "java -Xmx256M", to be most exact. < 1300046412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AIARCH < 1300046444 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The name is inherited, not mine. < 1300046453 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did put my own domain there for the prefix, though. < 1300046503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Your binary works. < 1300046522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Clearly I need a better compiler. < 1300046534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: (Meanwhile, wtf wtf wtf @ that miscompilation) < 1300046557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Actually what I *suspect* it is is that bsnes is depending on undefined behaviour and -O3 is messing it up. < 1300046565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the initialisation of the file opener mode... < 1300046704 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a-yup, I was having an issue with loading the DSP. Mario Kart works fine now. < 1300046767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: What kinda issue? < 1300046770 0 :FlyingTortilla!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1300046999 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had set up an XML file for loading it. The format of the memory-mapping XML changed. < 1300047024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Ah. (Why does the emulator come with cheats but not memory-mappers?) < 1300047048 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It guesses them on cartridge load. < 1300047058 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the actual memory layout for almost everything isn't known yet. < 1300047065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1300047070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But What About the BS-X Satellaview? < 1300047070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The truth of the matter is that most of these games are irreparably lost forever already. And those that remain are stored on extremely volatile flash memory. Not only does this mean the memory will fail an order of magnitude sooner than mask ROMs, it also means it is possible to tamper with. I will not be attempting the impossible here." < 1300047081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if all the games actually still exist on flash. < 1300047099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be quite a fun project, to track them all down and rip their contents. < 1300047111 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of them were only playable for a limited time, making it so that people would have deleted them. < 1300047120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe not ALL people. < 1300047129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe somebody lost interest in a shot while. < 1300047132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*short < 1300047141 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seriously need either a time machine or a break-in to get at it, as far as we know. < 1300047200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.satellablog.blogspot.com/ This seems to have... videos, at least. < 1300047293 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1300047409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I still can't believe that bsnes is even vaguely playable now that I know it loads RAM byte-by-byte :P < 1300047417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least the SNES is 16-bit, so it's only two reads. < 1300047504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Ohwait what's your g++-4.5 --version? < 1300047515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just realised I gave you my normal gcc version X-D < 1300047516 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g++-4.5 (Debian 4.5.2-4) 4.5.2 < 1300047521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine's < 1300047523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g++-4.5 (Ubuntu/Linaro 4.5.1-7ubuntu2) 4.5.1 < 1300047532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So MAYBE 0.0.1 VERSIONS FIXED SOMETHING < 1300047550 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, yeah, bsnes does a lot of stuff very inefficiently. < 1300047592 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hardware documentation that happens to be playable. :P < 1300047638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: HARDWARE DOCUMENTATION THAT RELIES ON THE STACK NO LESS < 1300047683 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses the stack-swapping thing because it makes things very, very readable. < 1300047714 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, aside from libco itself. < 1300047728 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Are recent previous years' bot rankings available? (I'm wondering how much better than the given quintuplet people's creations have tended to be) < 1300047866 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The old results page is at http://www.cs.hut.fi/Studies/T-93.4400/2010/results/ < 1300047886 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheers < 1300047910 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: And the 2009 at http://www.cs.hut.fi/Studies/T-93.4400/2009/results/ -- that year the top three out of the given examples (which are the top 5 from 2008) were unbeateded. < 1300047931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It uses the stack-swapping thing because it makes things very, very readable. < 1300047933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stack-swapping? < 1300047962 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how it implements coöperative multithreading, yes. < 1300047975 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds... readable < 1300048000 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this umlaut thing you keep doing is very annoying < 1300048015 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: The SNES is a combination of an insane number of CPUs, each with a different clock. < 1300048064 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any other way to handle that, with clock-tick-accurate emulation, *without* wanting to kill someone? < 1300048128 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not :) < 1300048153 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure the alternative is a truly insane state machine. < 1300048182 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Containing all the possible CPUs that could be loaded. < 1300048198 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(some SNES cartridges had another CPU that hooked into the system bus. No, really!) < 1300048212 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right! on-cartridge cpus... that makes it a lot more evil < 1300048296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I thought you meant libco didn't use it for that reason. < 1300048302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant it stack-swapped for some entirely different reason. < 1300048303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and this umlaut thing you keep doing is very annoying < 1300048310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called a diaeresis and PH is the one who does it all the time :P < 1300048342 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care who does it the most, I blame all of you! < 1300048362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically, it's called... < 1300048382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: It's actually a trema. < 1300048396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., a trema is a diæresis that marks a hiatus. < 1300048400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not making this up. < 1300048407 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trema is a genus of about 15 species of evergreen trees closely related to the hackberries (Celtis) < 1300048414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait. < 1300048421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An umlaut is also a trema. < 1300048427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's a hiatus trema diæresis! < 1300048452 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: BTW, if you have ROMs in .smc, use snespurify (in the bsnes source). < 1300048455 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We Finns keep döing it all the time too, but it's umlauts when we do it. < 1300048497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: So I need to run snespurify on byuu's thing you linked me? WELL THAT MAKES SENSE < 1300048513 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not Byuu's. < 1300048515 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tḧërë's älsö ẗḧë mëẗäl ümläüẗ. < 1300048520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hmm, are ä and ö not part of your balphabet? < 1300048525 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I object to is the use of non-umlaut tremata < 1300048531 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are, yes. < 1300048538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: http://byuusan.kuro-hitsuji.net.nyud.net/blargg_near_cd_quality2.7z Well, here's a simple audio demo you could try that I know for a fact works in BSNES. < 1300048546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless there's ANOTHER person called byuu out there who does SNES stuff. < 1300048546 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is rather hard to avoid not hearing how it sounds wrong when you see "coöperative" when the "hardwired" meaning is a different sound. < 1300048546 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Blame Blargg. < 1300048552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh :P < 1300048555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was wondering what that meant! < 1300048567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Are they actually pronounced umlauty? < 1300048573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or are they just separate members of the balphahet? < 1300048580 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :metal tremata are worse than diaereses since they don't even have a meaning < 1300048616 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Diæreſes are more correct þan þou. < 1300048654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: They're not tremata. < 1300048658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're diæreses. < 1300048665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The symbol is the diæresis. < 1300048685 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The trema is usually used to denote one of two distinct phonological phenomena: diaeresis (pronounced /daɪˈɛrɨsɨs/ dy-ERR-ə-səs), in which the trema is used to show that a vowel letter is not part of a digraph or diphthong; and umlaut (pronounced /ˈʊmlaʊt/ OOM-lowt), in which the trema illustrates a sound shift." < 1300048689 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 'pedia disagrees. < 1300048690 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A trema [...] is a diacritic consisting of two dots ( ¨ ) placed over a letter" < 1300048693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A tremeta is when a diæresis is used to denote either a hiatus, or a sound shift. < 1300048705 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1300048719 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "Diaeresis (prosody), pronunciation of vowels in a diphthong separately, or the division made in a line of poetry when the end of a foot coincides with the end of a word" from the disamb. page < 1300048721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Arguably, a trema is a diæresis when it is used to denote a hiatus, and an umlaut when it is used to denote a sound shift. < 1300048736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But metal umlauts are neither a hiatus nor a sound shift, so I think calling the mark a trema there is wrong. < 1300048747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yes, the article recently got deleted. < 1300048750 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since Varsity has told us that fascination with Jellybabies is a "fetish", < 1300048750 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we want to keep Nomicam a clean family game: < 1300048750 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The speaker shall once and once only go through the rules, changing every < 1300048750 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mention of the word "jelly baby" - in whatever grammatical form - into the < 1300048750 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :word "sheep" - in the corresponding grammatical form. < 1300048750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(diæresis, that is.) < 1300048751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1300048753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It all got reorganised. < 1300048838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@elliott-MacBookAir:~/Downloads/gcc-4.5.2$ ./configure --with-languages=c,c++ --enable-lto --enable-libssp < 1300048839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woo. < 1300048856 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you're in fact arguing the wikipedia is wrong, I think it clearly says that a trema is the diacritic regardless of what meaning you invent for it < 1300048881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=trema < 1300048883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that settles it. < 1300048902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S: (n) umlaut, dieresis, diaeresis (a diacritical mark (two dots) placed over a vowel in German to indicate a change in sound) < 1300048902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--WordNet < 1300048912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So at least WordNet disagrees, sort of, kinda. :p < 1300048937 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? I only get S: (n) Trema, genus Trema (an evergreen tree of the family Ulmaceae that grows in tropical America and Africa and Asia) < 1300049015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: It's called a ``joke''. < 1300049018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may have heard of this. < 1300049061 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :diaeresis appears to be a synonym of trema though < 1300049081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly a diæresis is a type of rtee. < 1300049083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tree. < 1300049157 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-217.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300049159 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Re the earlier discussion fork, a → ä is /ɑ/ → /æ/ IPA-wise, and o → ö is /o̞/ → /ø̞/, so it is "umlauty" in the sense of "sound shift"; I think that more or less matches German usage, too. < 1300049160 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1300049177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Nair fuff. < 1300049385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :../.././gcc/config/i386/i386.c: In function ‘ix86_handle_fndecl_attribute’: < 1300049385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :../.././gcc/config/i386/i386.c:26127: warning: unknown conversion type character ‘E’ in format < 1300049385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :../.././gcc/config/i386/i386.c:26127: warning: too many arguments for format < 1300049385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :../.././gcc/config/i386/i386.c:26135: warning: unknown conversion type character ‘E’ in format < 1300049385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :../.././gcc/config/i386/i386.c:26135: warning: too many arguments for format < 1300049386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Uh." < 1300049415 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice, nonstandard formats < 1300049561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/gnu/stubs.h:7:27: fatal error: gnu/stubs-32.h: No such file or directory < 1300049562 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: "E" is not a nonstandard type, though; at least in C99. < 1300049565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhhhhhhhh? < 1300049574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does gcc build a 32-bit thing by default? < 1300049580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# multilibs." < 1300049584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, no, no multilibs please gcc. < 1300049628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, /me installs multilib gcc :P < 1300049662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm*. < 1300049682 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Michelle Bachmann would like to let you know that E PLVRIBVS VNVM is unAmerican. < 1300049702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your mom is un-American. < 1300049710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Can we please stop saying "unA"? Really really ugly.) < 1300049721 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E PLVRIBVS VNVMerican < 1300049727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unÄmerican. Better? < 1300049728 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1300049757 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unaemerican < 1300049767 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*æ < 1300049807 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :un American, with U+200A HAIR SPACE ("thinner than a thing space; in traditional typography, the thinnest space available") there. (Again an awesome character name.) < 1300049826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S NOT EVEN A SPACE < 1300049831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a slight kerning failure! :P < 1300049843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a monospaced font, it's also quite a failure. < 1300050050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc sure does take a while to compile. < 1300050064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("A few seconds" would count as "not a while".) < 1300050580 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ʌnəmɛɹɪkən < 1300051293 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oiwajrh < 1300051595 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should work on installing emacs < 1300051603 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I have Emacs installed, kind of < 1300051760 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1300051801 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1300051808 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1300051808 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1300052150 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1300052163 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-187-144.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300052574 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: "Help! I've been g:lined from my mIRC!!" Bersirc 2.2: less n00bs [ http://www.bersirc.org/ - Open Source IRC ] < 1300052727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That gcc, it never stops compiling. < 1300052986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes me want to get an Oberon VM and order it to recompile itself. < 1300053611 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Have I ever designed a standard library? I'd like to lie and say "no", but the answer is "yes": I designed JavaScript's standard library (Clause 15 of ECMA-262, Edition 1, plus or minus) along with the "DOM Level 0" (onload and onclick and document, window, forms, etc. -- a great deal of this is only now standardized by HTML5). < 1300053611 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did this in about 30 days in May and June 1995 (10 days in May for the core language), and spent the rest of the year debugging and repenting. I was under orders to make JS look like Java, so some of the standard library is cloned from the JDK1.0 -- in particular, Ken Smith of Netscape did a pretty straight port of java.util.Date, Y2K bugs and all, to JS." < 1300053619 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4009#comment-60781 < 1300053930 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1300053994 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1300054760 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1300054778 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is bad UTF-8 in the TOPIC message. < 1300054813 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might not be utf-8 at all < 1300054857 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I read article of ] programming language, it says programs that the brackets are matched is invalid. I have a different idea, which is to make something such that a thing is not said explicitly, but instead is implied by the other rules of the language (such as its commands) that cause programs with all matched brackets to do nothing. < 1300054884 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: It is not UTF-8. But I think in here we mostly are using UTF-8, so it should be corrected unless you are deliberately trying to make it wrong. < 1300054931 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works fine for me, so I don't think it should be changed :) < 1300054977 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Is your client not in UTF-8 mode? Sometimes Japanese things are typed in here using UTF-8. < 1300055012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t mod < 1300055013 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Integral a) => a -> a -> a < 1300055020 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it neatly auto-detects whether stuff seems to be latin1 or utf-8 < 1300055083 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PuTTY does not do such things, though. Also, there might sometimes be something that causes the detection wrong. < 1300055118 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think if I used PuTTY I'd have to have putty and my locale set to utf-8 to allow the client to output whatever it auto-detected to < 1300055127 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ssh in general, for that matter < 1300055805 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1300055832 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1300056283 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1300056462 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1300057405 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX will skip tokens category 10 character 32 when reading undelimited arguments. So, I made a macro \makefunny that makes spaces funny so that the macro can read spaces. < 1300057524 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300058500 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1300058541 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1300058772 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1300058907 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → sleep
< 1300058917 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300059281 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- google.com ping statistics --- < 1300059281 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :42 packets transmitted, 19 received, 54% packet loss, time 41134ms < 1300059281 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 42.567/43.240/44.072/0.433 ms < 1300059281 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaargh < 1300059562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice. < 1300059853 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been on #LaTeX channel. I realized that a lot of people have a lot of problems with LaTeX which could be avoided by using Plain TeX instead. < 1300059925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the cost of much more pain. < 1300059991 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-165-44.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300060016 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1300060019 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Perhaps the first time. The first time I had a few problems too, but the second time I knew much better and now I can make Plain TeX documents very easily without much pain/trouble/whatever. < 1300060552 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have tried using LaTeX once. It is so weak and difficult that I am not sure why someone would use it, except, perhaps, people who like Microsoft Word. < 1300060576 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1300060588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, some of us like LaTeX and hate Microsoft Word, and simply want to work in a high-level document language rather than a low-level typesetting language. < 1300060591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So please stop telling us how bad it is. < 1300060594 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're funny sometimes < 1300060607 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Whatever, work with what you like. < 1300060610 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 is to elliott what eliott is to the rest of us < 1300060629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: don't be silly, i don't justify my criticisms < 1300060636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, who is eliott :trollface: