< 1300062033 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | From when they take effect. < 1300062065 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1300062382 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is watching Firefly
< 1300062834 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A chess variant about "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition" should be invented. < 1300062877 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1300062901 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the spanish inquisition is kept in pocket < 1300062904 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has the moves of a knight < 1300062924 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can places it only if it attacks two or more non-pawn pieces or delivers check < 1300062972 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, OK. I like that idea. < 1300062995 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My idea too was it is kept in pocket initially < 1300063034 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it is something like Pocket Knight chess. < 1300063545 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever happened to Fourplay? < 1300063567 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What is Fourplay? < 1300063573 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I linked to that idiot's blog who mentioned Fourplay a while ago < 1300063580 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fourplay itself however is nt by idiots < 1300063586 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a nomicchess < 1300063595 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nomic.net/deadgames/fourplay/fourplay.html < 1300063601 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not balanced, really < 1300063839 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: LaTeX and Microsoft Word can be compared? < 1300063870 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Maybe. < 1300063898 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Are you at Stanford University? < 1300063921 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: apparently < 1300063928 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. I just know how to look the look. < 1300063936 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1300064306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: He's in Stanford IN THE FUTURE. < 1300064312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the Doctor. < 1300064362 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doctor? < 1300064397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1300064399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He operates the TARDIS < 1300064401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*TARDIS. < 1300064811 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300064869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1300064876 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1300065340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Progress(TM): gcc have removed the option to inhibit warnings about #import without using -w, but not #import itself (despite wanting to deprecate it since 2003). < 1300065349 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1300065374 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-49.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300065458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Oh well, -Wno-deprecated works.) < 1300065943 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300065943 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1300065943 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1300065948 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My TeX chess program is not only for FIDE chess. So after I finished I can post to Chess Variants, too, since you can also use it for other games, not only for FIDE chess. < 1300066709 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1300066729 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1300066767 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1300067201 0 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300067743 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300068337 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g228062186.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300068790 0 :augur!~augur@pool-173-73-127-19.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300070607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you know you ported c-intercal to mac os 9? < 1300070621 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1300070627 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It came up again < 1300070631 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mysterious error < 1300070648 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1300070662 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION clicks Cancel in the hopes that whatever debugger comes up will give him a hint
< 1300070678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I was thinking that it would be a lot easier if one simply wrote Cygwin for Mac OS. < 1300070680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: SO CLEARLY IT MUST BE DONE. < 1300070702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it must work on System Software 6, obviously. To become the best operating system! < 1300070704 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't OS X a UNIX? < 1300070719 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Derivative of BSD, iirc? < 1300070738 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or am I flat out mistaken? (Or somewhere in the middle) < 1300070738 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :' < 1300070764 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I am not trying to make that into a list containing merely data and placing the ' on the wrong side < 1300070862 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nlo debugger came up < 1300070954 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mac OS X is UNIX. < 1300070969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: But older versions are not. < 1300070971 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It even has a few GNU programs. < 1300070978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite a few, actually. < 1300070981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It comes with gcc and Emacs, for one. < 1300070989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course it's quite easy to compile your own. < 1300070995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, comes with; gcc is part of Xcode. < 1300071008 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know those things. < 1300071037 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is elliott ignoring me again? < 1300071077 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: mac is a derivative of mach and BSD < 1300071078 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Maybe. I read your messages though. < 1300071096 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has been certified as UNIX < 1300071100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Heavens, it's much more fun than that! < 1300071126 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well yeah - it has its own stuff as well. It was mainly BSD + Mach + Cool looking shell < 1300071129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Mac OS X's kernel is XNU. XNU is 4.3BSD updated to FreeBSD, *running on top of Mach*. < 1300071151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kind of like NT. < 1300071154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win32 runs on top of NT. < 1300071158 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah: I know < 1300071169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: But then drivers are written in a subset of C++ separately... for no apparent reason :) < 1300071182 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except not quite, as Win32 is merely an API implemented on top of NT. < 1300071189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No; Win32 is a subsystem. < 1300071196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite a bit more. < 1300071198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas XNU has an entire BSD kernel running on top of Mach. < 1300071200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so it's the Windows subsystem with the Win32 API. < 1300071201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But. < 1300071203 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because c++ has saner type safety and allows one to use nicer features like classes without exposing implementation < 1300071225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: (1) I mean, why not use the BSD driver layer, and (2) I don't buy OOP propaganda :) < 1300071236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather: I think that the goal of abstraction is obviously an admirable one, but I don't believe OOP is the best way to do it. < 1300071240 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I wasn't think OOP (which has little to do with classes) < 1300071241 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The OS X setup is more analogous to User Mode Linux than anything else, really. < 1300071255 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, ...saner than C, I assume. I assume that other languages are out of the question, otherwise "C++ is sane" is.. silly < 1300071264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not quite. Mach is *designed* to have kernels run underneath it. < 1300071273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I mean, what do you think Hurd runs on top of? < 1300071274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mach. < 1300071279 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes; < 1300071291 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hurd, runs? < 1300071292 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-p < 1300071294 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it's also designed to have those kernels actually *use* Mach. < 1300071298 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that was in jest) < 1300071311 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300071317 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of, uh, using it as a pointless abstraction layer. < 1300071338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: It doesn't even support USB! :) < 1300071359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It isn't *quite* pointless. < 1300071365 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely if Linux never existed, Hurd would be further along... < 1300071366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Mach gives the OS soft real-time support, for one. < 1300071376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And more importantly, the drivers run on top of Mach instead of BSD. < 1300071383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := SPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED. < 1300071400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, a lot of OS X drivers run in user-space, which would be "fun" to do with BSD. < 1300071432 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Linux actually has quite a few user-space drivers by now... < 1300071484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in the 90s when nextstep was created :) < 1300071494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1986. < 1300071517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Anyway, RATE MY IDEA OF WRITING CYGWIN FOR MAC. < 1300071566 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Join #microcosm. < 1300071566 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1300071587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: AFAIK microcosm can't actually run anything yet :P < 1300071613 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can run a few trivial things... < 1300071636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And I VERY MUCH DOUBT microcosm would work on a platform without stdin/out, with no more than ANSI C (unless you wrote Mac OS Classic-specific code!), ... < 1300071646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ... I doubt it will yield to other processes, ... < 1300071658 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Mac OS Classic? < 1300071668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yep. < 1300071672 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that'd need to be a full kernel. < 1300071675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Mac OS X needs no Unix :P < 1300071683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What does Microcosm target, anyway? < 1300071687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it only works on other Unices it's a bit useless. < 1300071697 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Any vaguely modern OS. < 1300071714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not far away from Windows :trollface: < 1300071716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also, not necessarily a kernel; all Unix functions could yield. < 1300071722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Then only tight loops would lock up. < 1300071731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: DOS has this problem, for instance :) < 1300071748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It'd be NICE to multitask with tight loops, but... < 1300071761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And I think you could hook a "stop it!" key right to the OS to terminate them. < 1300071916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also, a Unix with only 8 megs of ram: FUN? < 1300071950 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can manage that without any real effort. < 1300071960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just isn't going to be doing anything too fancy. < 1300071965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I WANT TO RUN GCC ON IT < 1300071975 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Give up now. < 1300072034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: djgpp ran with only 2 megs of ram at the start... < 1300072036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(early 90s) < 1300072037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc < 1300072046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I could just port gcc 2 :) < 1300072077 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, you could probably get older GCC working fine. < 1300072094 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300072098 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Modern* GCC can suck up gigs if you look at it wrong. < 1300072098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And BASH < 1300072166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Seriously though, Mac OS is PERFECT for this. < 1300072175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You basically run as your own OS with a large graphical API. < 1300072399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: In fact, if I implemented my own timer, I could do proper multithreading... < 1300072402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, preemptive. < 1300072425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Awesomely though, every Unix application would stop if you tabbed away. < 1300072443 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, forcing Mac OS into proper multithreading. < 1300072497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I dunno if it's worth it though :p < 1300073309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> enumFrom 3 < 1300073310 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,... < 1300074082 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Did British Secondary Prevention Trial inadvertently end up reproducing Lyon Diet-Heart stydy (one of the most successful dietary trials ever) in reverse? < 1300074792 0 :augur!~augur@pool-173-73-127-19.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300074848 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300075090 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: What is that? < 1300075238 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1300075524 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300075793 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1300075964 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i see you have discussed optbot more. i'd like to repeat/point out that my basic executive decision in this case is that if optbot is to change the topic, it _must_ look at the topic that is already set, and preserve what others have put there. i suggest changing only the part after the last |. < 1300075964 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What does `ls' do on VMS < 1300075976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: when was that your executive decision? < 1300075982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall you ever saying that, not in 2008 and not in 2011 < 1300075992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that was never optbot's behaviour < 1300075992 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what do you think about that? < 1300075993 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...earlier today... < 1300076005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not according to herobrine < 1300076016 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's what i _thought_. < 1300076060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i'll just take it down then, since it'd be a huge pain to make the code do that, and also generate really clipped topics because of the limit < 1300076113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i may have also allowed an actual optbot command that other people than you can use. < 1300076113 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I see < 1300076126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that'd still clip topics < 1300076157 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd point out that both options are considerably more lenient than what some other people suggested. < 1300076174 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another option is just remove the topic changing. < 1300076175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some other people = Gregor < 1300076183 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and zzo38 < 1300076200 0 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300076205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's your sense of fun gone i ask! < 1300076257 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another another option is that it changes immediately if the log URL is missing, otherwise it changes it seven days after the previous change (including changes by other users). < 1300076303 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it appears that elliott does not think actually paying attention to TOPIC commands is a reasonable change. < 1300076313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not about reasonability, it's about feasibility. < 1300076334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The topic limit <<< the message limit, and optbot does messages, + the overhead it has now is about max before it sarts chopping unreasonably < 1300076334 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://www.google.com/search?q=x-directory&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:unofficial&client=iceweasel-a#hl=en&client=iceweasel-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:unofficial&&sa=X&ei=b6bZTJbjCOaV4gbn2qS8CA&ved=0CBEQvgUoAA&q=%2B%22application/x-directory%22&nfpr=1&fp=8ec2bc6eb6ca6ae0 < 1300076341 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, just make it never change the topic message. < 1300076352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's 50% of the fun of optbot, so i'd rather take it down. < 1300076352 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i meant to run it in the Integer -> Program direction, fwiw < 1300076367 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well _most_ irc messages aren't that long. < 1300076378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, but the topic limit is quite a bit less. < 1300076379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :200 or so less < 1300076386 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1300076386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has a hundred or so overhead. < 1300076399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOPICLEN=390 < 1300076415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, 100 less or so < 1300076419 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the message limit including nick prefix is 510 or so < 1300076441 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or change the message only when "PRIVMSG optbot :TOPIC" is received, is another way. < 1300076441 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no! < 1300076446 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: No? < 1300076446 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: But seriously, nobody would pay that much for a drive. < 1300076463 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do it for free then. < 1300076526 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm a suggestion, put a link to tunes in your own logs, then we can remove tunes from the topic. < 1300076552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that might work, but does not solve the issue that user-added topics will be far longer anyway. < 1300076552 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you may have already done so afaik, i only visit individual dates) < 1300076559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have not. < 1300076596 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I don't like it, I think tunes log should always be available there it is the official policy. < 1300076633 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: um the official policy surely is that _some_ logs must be there if there are any... < 1300076652 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could delete the word "logs:" and write "http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | " as the prefix. < 1300076659 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since "logs" is in the URL. < 1300076665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't need logs in the URL. < 1300076718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: does it? < 1300076776 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It doesn't, but since "logs" is already in the URL, the prefix "logs: " can be removed. However, I (and others) still think you should make it optbot not changing topic message. < 1300077619 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot! < 1300077619 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | I KNOW < 1300077623 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1300077761 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok current compromise is a 12 hour timeout after anyone changes the topic. < 1300077769 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | I DON'T KNOW < 1300077805 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That might work. Keeping track of the last change of *anyone* is important. < 1300077852 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if/when something longer is needed, either elliott or an op should be able to take action in that time. < 1300077875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compromise for when i'm not lazy, mind you. < 1300077897 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'm just summarizing mine and elliott's private conversation so it's official) < 1300077905 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, then for now just disable that feature until you get less lazy to be able to correct it. < 1300077906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't have private conversations < 1300077907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you talking about? < 1300077924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: nah; if someone really has something desperately urgent to put in the topic in the next few days, oerjan or fizzie can +t < 1300077932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a mythical situation, but just in case :) < 1300077936 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1300077936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I'll fix it, because I'll be less lazy. < 1300077941 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was done by telepathy. your consciousness may not have perceived it yet. < 1300077953 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300077961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OW < 1300077965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that hurt :( < 1300077968 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expect strange dreams. < 1300077980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION backs slowly away from oerjan
< 1300077984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you weren't joking about the wet furry porn < 1300077998 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I often have a strange dream < 1300077999 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1300078027 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot (not all) of them, is ones with no words (or picture) to explain. < 1300078040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dream about tortoises < 1300078094 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what kind of reason is there in such dreams why Achilles cannot catch the Tortoise? < 1300078095 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had a dream this morning < 1300078101 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about an airport < 1300078116 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you have to get on a conveyor belt and lie down < 1300078137 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it just does all the airporty stuff while you lay there and wait for it to take you to your plane < 1300078139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i approve < 1300078195 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was poorly designed in the dream, but the basic premise would be nice < 1300078247 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would work for tired people with no packages, no money, and no hunger. < 1300078272 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no packages are fine, they can also go on the belt. < 1300078284 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might work a little bit in some other cases too, possibly, but I don't know quite. < 1300078314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no money? < 1300078320 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they need to put the separator bars so you know whose package it is? < 1300078323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote It would work for tired people with no packages, no money, and no hunger. < 1300078378 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you could solve the hunger part by having some of those things from manufacturing belts that they use to fill food packages < 1300078383 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Separator bars might help a little bit in current airport, but then barcodes would also be required. Otherwise you always lose all packages < 1300078401 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you better be positioned right on the belt when that happens < 1300078422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: do the tsa just run up to you and grope you? < 1300078428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"this won't take a second." < 1300078429 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Still, if you are tired you might prefer to be lying on the conveyor belt. Other people who are not tired might prefer to stand up. < 1300078440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody likes standing up < 1300078460 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey they could give an actual MRI scan then. would solve that bombs in your cavities problem. < 1300078470 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or else, sit down on the chair and go in the plane from walking outside. < 1300078474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a bomb in my cavity hur hur I don't even know what that would mean < 1300078477 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I posted a dream of mine online a while ago < 1300078481 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLEARLY THIS IS THE FUTURE < 1300078484 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, so that's 3 dreams < 1300078487 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But lying down on conveyor belt would help if you are tired. < 1300078488 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dreamviews.com/f107/sgeos-dream-journal-53892/ < 1300078488 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And http://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/sgeo/alternate-universe-elevator-1827/ < 1300078504 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: disturbingly, it can mean exactly what it sounds like. < 1300078516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you mean a thing that can blow up in my cavity?!?!?!?! < 1300078516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG < 1300078541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, just got another telepathic communication from you. jesus christ. well, now i know what "i've got a bomb in my cavity" could mean. < 1300078546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure i want to though. < 1300078576 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ROBOTS DO THE GROPING. THEY HAVE NO FEELING. THEY WON'T POP A BONER.\ < 1300078580 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1300078604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: but do they handle the recipient ``popping a boner'' to use your crude American terminology? < 1300078609 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you an MRI scan would give new meaning to the "please remove metal objects" part < 1300078622 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is HackEgo broken again? < 1300078639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the airport could just have a total nudity rule. < 1300078642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, total goatse rule. < 1300078645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could hide nothing! < 1300078655 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i'll leave it to you to design a robot that can tell the difference between a pipe bomb and < 1300078679 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enemabot! < 1300078697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i'm sure i've seen approximations to that joke (well not the goatse) in several comics, including dilbert. < 1300078711 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, maybe even the goatse. < 1300078724 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regardless of how they do it, I no longer go on airplanes anyways; I have already for a few years, decided to stop using airport. < 1300078726 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is not quite sure about that.
< 1300078791 0 :azaq23!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1300078850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: have you ever been on an aeroplane? < 1300078975 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes I have once. But even then, and even more now, they do all stupid things with the surveillance, lost packages, prohibition of items on planes, and various other things. < 1300078990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i think they shouldn't prohibit bombs on planes. What do you think? < 1300079002 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, just go by boat if you need to go across the ocean. < 1300079029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D < 1300079060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i prefer to go overseas by train < 1300079065 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not sure, but I meant other things, such as nail files, toner cartridges, pencil and paper, and a lot of others. < 1300079074 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Is there a train in the water? < 1300079081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1300079083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The WATERTAIN < 1300079087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It exists, in your imagination < 1300079127 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if the dilbert one may even have been pre-2001
< 1300079157 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it's precisely the kind of dystopian idea scott adams _would_ get < 1300079172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to remember why i hate scott sdams < 1300079173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*adams < 1300079209 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i assume his comics have degraded like most long-time runners, and now he sucks? < 1300079212 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a dream once, there was various clubs in a building, for the pokemon element types, and also the administration club. The administration club was not permitted to have any members. < 1300079215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no no unrelated to his comics < 1300079226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he posted some ridiculously stupid anti-scientific thing to his blog once so i started hating him < 1300079231 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. some absurd opinion... < 1300079233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was relaly weird too < 1300079234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*really < 1300079250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is that you going throough the list of things i mate hate people for? < 1300079251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*typos < 1300079288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2007/08/poster-child-fo.html ;; well here he misinterprets "atheist" and is stupid about it. < 1300079302 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : zzo38: i prefer to go overseas by train <-- underseas, you mean < 1300079307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1300079309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the train floats < 1300079336 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It probably is not a train, even if they call it a train, it isn't. < 1300079341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is. < 1300079350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's railtracks under the water, it grows legs to connect to them < 1300079383 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i am now going to annoy elliott by pointing out that he is joking. < 1300079384 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each pokemon element type club has two ways of being a member (and no payment is required). < 1300079413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It exists, in your imagination < 1300079418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cover my bases. < 1300079428 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also not a list, i vaguely recall you mention that adams thing before < 1300079445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not interesting enough to donate brain cpu cycles to :D < 1300079457 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this is not cpu, it's memory < 1300079470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it hogs cpu cycles to access memory and process it < 1300079472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in a real computer < 1300079473 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, in your imagination, you can make it whatever you want including illogical things in seventeen thousand dimensional space with one is not both the same. < 1300079476 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1300079478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinking is much easier than remembering :) < 1300079487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, quicker < 1300079490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remembering is less "work". < 1300079495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it takes a long time. < 1300079503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what i'm saying is, use Checkout for your brain, bro < 1300079530 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i saw this train < 1300079530 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was in Spirited Away < 1300079530 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :went right along the water < 1300079593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely remember that! < 1300079599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirited away is kinda one big gob in my head. < 1300079600 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: seventeen thousand dimensional space is not illogical, mind you. although maybe a little inconvenient. < 1300079650 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I also had some dream about not push the buttons in elevator door. < 1300079660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh huh < 1300079662 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well actually for linear algebra it may even be convenient. < 1300079662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what happened < 1300079666 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1300079677 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I did not mean that 17000 dimension space is illogical, I meant you have illogical imagination things in it. < 1300079735 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1300079735 0 :jix!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300079752 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is URL about my dream (look for the line with "*I was looking at programs for different programming languages." for the one about the elevator button) < 1300079755 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/misc/weird_dream/dream.txt < 1300079782 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one with @ instead of * is somebody else, I just collected the information. The one with * is my own. < 1300079857 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1300079896 0 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300079903 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Undefined things happened. < 1300079927 0 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300079974 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: In a dream, such things is possible as undefined things happened. < 1300079985 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to press a random button in zzo38's elevator
< 1300080101 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beware of the button saying "outer space" < 1300080141 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will _not_ enjoy it when the doors open < 1300080175 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: have your dreams ever solved major problems in real life? < 1300080194 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: for instance, the answer to what's the difference between a duck? < 1300080210 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats quintopia -----###
< 1300080220 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not as far as I can remember. However, I cannot remember, so I don't know. < 1300080226 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw did you finish your scoring system < 1300080245 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What scoring system? Whose scoring system? < 1300080250 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia's < 1300080256 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for bfjoust < 1300080291 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean < 1300080313 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modifying report.c < 1300080316 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1300080347 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i code it? < 1300080348 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, i'm too lazy to reimplement linear algebra, and i've heard gregor will not allow lapack, so i have to wait on him to tell me with linear algebra library i'm allowed to use. < 1300080354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1300080357 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1300080381 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought that might be a stumbling block :/ < 1300080390 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say I wouldn't ALLOW lapack, just that I wasn't going to learn it myself just to write a friggin' BFJoust scoreboard calculator :P < 1300080435 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oic. so if i learn it, you'll allow it? < 1300080453 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, so long as it's reasonably easy to install :P < 1300080459 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it's in Debian. < 1300080480 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probs. iunno. < 1300080572 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://packages.qa.debian.org/l/lapack.html < 1300081559 0 :aloril!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1300081721 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088172176.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1300081865 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300081953 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1300081957 0 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1300081972 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1300082099 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1300082099 0 :shachaf!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1300082099 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1300082099 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1300082099 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1300082901 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1300082905 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088172176.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1300083041 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1300083103 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1300083352 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g228062186.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300083354 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@208.69.183.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300083354 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300083354 0 :Leonidas!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1300083354 0 :mycroftiv!~ircguy@h69-128-47-242.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300083622 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | It's just a few vetical pixels at the top. < 1300083634 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1300083750 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: I was thinking that it would be a lot easier if one simply wrote Cygwin for Mac OS. Vorpal: SO CLEARLY IT MUST BE DONE. <-- oh my < 1300083982 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq: And I think you could hook a "stop it!" key right to the OS to terminate them. <-- MacBugs? < 1300084051 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq: I dunno if it's worth it though :p <-- depends on what standard. #esoteric? Hell yeah! < 1300084054 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1300084571 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300084760 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1300084767 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1300085857 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300086143 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd :D < 1300086287 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, my respect for Al Gore just went up < 1300086398 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, pray tell? < 1300086509 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read about how he, as president of the senate, correctly enforced a rule that ultimately led to him losing the election < 1300086600 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm. < 1300086642 0 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric < 1300086743 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the specific rule was that challenging a state's electoral result requires the signature of a representative and a senator from that state, and there was no senator signed on < 1300087193 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaah. < 1300087218 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shame, too. Al Gore damned well should've been President. < 1300087228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaand may or may not have actually won. < 1300087354 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he upheld the law and denied himself the opportunity to win; which is very honorable < 1300087486 0 :elliott!~elliott@91.105.126.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300087493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1300087493 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1300087520 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, fun legal fact: the constitution of canada is not a set whose elements are all known < 1300087620 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Canada actually had a well-defined legal system? < 1300087628 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have a constitution act which says < 1300087634 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2) The Constitution of Canada includes < 1300087635 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) the Canada Act 1982, including this Act; < 1300087635 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b) the Acts and orders referred to in the schedule; and < 1300087635 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(c) any amendment to any Act or order referred to in paragraph (a) or (b). < 1300087646 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, it also includes a bunch of other things < 1300087652 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like parliamentary privelege < 1300087673 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has in particular been confirmed by the supreme court to actually be a part of the constitution < 1300087686 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlike the UK, where even the premise of the government being divine right isn't well-defined... < 1300087711 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ... Oh, great, your supreme court is as fucking nuts as ours. < 1300087730 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I think I have to agree < 1300087751 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :privelege is mentioned in the constitution act but never explicitly defined < 1300087761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder how long humans can actually keep up this only sleeping every other day thing < 1300087765 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see nothing in clause 2 of the Constitution Act there that would include parliamentary privilege... < 1300087773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any guesse;sdf? < 1300087787 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18. The privileges, immunities, and powers to be held, enjoyed, and exercised by the Senate and by the House of Commons, and by the members thereof respectively, shall be such as are from time to time defined by Act of the Parliament of Canada, but so that any Act of the Parliament of Canada defining such privileges, immunities, and powers shall not confer any privileges, immunities, or powers exceeding those at the passing of such Act held, < 1300087799 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Depends: how long are you sleeping? < 1300087799 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a different part of the constitution act < 1300087813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: too long... like 11 hrs, but would be 12 if not for alarms andsuch < 1300087825 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yup, definitely not in the Canadian constitution. Merely means of defining such. < 1300087921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is a mess.
< 1300087921 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1300087921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's better than waking up at 5pm. < 1300087921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate my circadian rhythm :( < 1300087921 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You almost certainly have a sleeping disorder. < 1300087921 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this particular case, the privilege was the long-standing parliamentary privilege of excluding strangers; a TV company wanted to film the proceedings of the Nova Scotian legislature, but the legislature wouldn't let the cameras in < 1300087921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feeling tired already, definitely a record, probably should have slept this time, oh well, coffee < 1300087921 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, that much we already knew. < 1300087921 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the TV company cited freedom of speech, of course < 1300087921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i'm fucking buying melatonin today < 1300087921 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Strange that they'd cite the constitution for that. < 1300087927 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Surely freedom of speech doesn't mandate that they have the right to record everything, everywhere? < 1300087954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:06:41 Vorpal: I was thinking that it would be a lot easier if one simply wrote Cygwin for Mac OS. Vorpal: SO CLEARLY IT MUST BE DONE. <-- oh my < 1300087955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:10:34 pikhq: And I think you could hook a "stop it!" key right to the OS to terminate them. <-- MacBugs? < 1300087955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:11:43 pikhq: I dunno if it's worth it though :p <-- depends on what standard. #esoteric? Hell yeah! < 1300087958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) yes, yes indeed < 1300087963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(3) i mean the "make tight loops not hang" thing < 1300087964 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Also strange that you don't have your proceedings recorded already... I know here that the federal government *itself* actually does video recording of the entire proceedings of Congress. < 1300087964 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, but the SCC decided that the privilege is itself constitutional and thus not subject to obeying the rights set out in the Charter < 1300087981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: can i have so much coffee < 1300087986 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: How very strange; I'd think that human rights would be irrelevant. < 1300088018 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's gets muddled when it's government business, because there are some very deep rights there < 1300088031 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a citizen's right to know what the government is doing, and the government's right not to tell them < 1300088054 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The federal government here records the House of Commons and committees of both chambers; the Senate itself has not authorized video recordings < 1300088066 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :transcripts are available in both French and English by the next day online < 1300088078 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is, incidentally, absolutely insane) < 1300088104 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they also do live translation of proceedings so that anyone can participate in either language) < 1300088125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Aaaah", multilingual society. < 1300088138 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though if our government was *sane*, they'd probably have to do the same. < 1300088143 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1300088148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember, the US has *no* official language at all. < 1300088158 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add spanish? < 1300088171 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is but *one* important language in the US. < 1300088173 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or gangsta? < 1300088203 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps the one most likely to be relevant... < 1300088215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i should make cygmac work on system software 1 :D < 1300088241 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's rather a *lot* of languages spoken here, even if you discount those languages which have mostly bilingual native speakers. < 1300088268 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :popping the stack a little, the issue that is really sticky about the scope of the constitution is that the constitution says that an amendment to the constitution that changes the composition of the Supreme Court requires unanimous consent of the provinces. < 1300088275 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds great, except for one minor detail < 1300088326 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the composition of the Supreme Court is defined in the Supreme Court of Canada Act, which is not in the schedule < 1300088356 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people hold this to mean that this requirement on amendment would apply only if the SCC were explicitly moved into the constitution < 1300088367 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :others hold it to mean that the SCCA is implicitly part of the constitution < 1300088403 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*groan* < 1300088428 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Supreme Court Act < 1300088432 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pushing to the stack again. There's 35 million people who speak primarily Spanish in the US. *Damn*. < 1300088455 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making the USA have the second-largest Spanish-speaking community in the world. < 1300088466 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moreover, the SCA predates that part of the constitution by a long time < 1300088468 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell < 1300088472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thati sn't pushing to the stack < 1300088475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats calling the continuation < 1300088484 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Fuck you and your "accurate semantics". < 1300088484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your conversational control structures are spaghetti < 1300088491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dijkstra disapprvoes < 1300088497 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moreover, this is potentially relevant as there is a bill passing through the Senate right now to change the selection requirements for Supreme Court justices, although I expect it has about a snowball's chance in hell of actually passing < 1300088498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man wyh do yyou have to type the keys in order < 1300088501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a bad thing about keyboards. < 1300088513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should just press them all at once, and it uses a dictionary :/ < 1300088529 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: T3h groans. < 1300088532 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1300088541 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it would fail if the supreme court is found to be part of the constitution as it would then require a bunch of provinces to agree) < 1300088562 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although, oddly enough, it would make it irrelevant that the Conservatives control the Senate) < 1300088602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're currently in the spanish stack frame < 1300088605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thoguht you should know < 1300088635 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, I stayed behind; it's a cactus stack < 1300088657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: your conversational system is so inelegant. horrible hacky whore language on top of spaghetti control. < 1300088665 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I speak in Perl < 1300088667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from now on I will talk only in Has < 1300088747 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh, elliott's not currying properly < 1300088752 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's the nearest indian restaurant? < 1300088777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kell < 1300088784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you forced evaluati** Exception: undefined < 1300088806 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-162-126.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300088814 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1300088884 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: what did you miss? < 1300088905 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:26 < coppro> (and it would fail if the supreme court is found to be part of the constitution as it would then require a bunch of provinces to agree) < 1300088909 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last line. < 1300088914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (although, oddly enough, it would make it irrelevant that the Conservatives control the Senate) < 1300088916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then some stack talk < 1300088919 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:26 < coppro> (although, oddly enough, it would make it irrelevant that the Conservatives control the Senate) < 1300088922 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:27 < elliott> you're currently in the spanish stack frame < 1300088925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: use an irc bouncer or something srsly :P < 1300088925 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:27 < elliott> thoguht you should know < 1300088927 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:28 < coppro> elliott: no, I stayed behind; it's a cactus stack < 1300088930 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:28 < elliott> coppro: your conversational system is so inelegant. horrible hacky whore language on top of spaghetti control. < 1300088931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1300088933 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:28 < coppro> elliott: I speak in Perl < 1300088933 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1300088934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1300088935 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:28 < elliott> from now on I will talk only in Has < 1300088937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keys shouldn't do things < 1300088938 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:30 < coppro> uh oh, elliott's not currying properly < 1300088940 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:30 < coppro> where's the nearest indian restaurant? < 1300088943 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:30 < elliott> kell < 1300088943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should have to hodl down every modifier I have to close the window < 1300088945 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:30 < elliott> you forced evaluati** Exception: undefined < 1300088948 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1300088959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or with coppro maybe the opposite < 1300088964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if his message matches ".win" it just does it < 1300088974 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loo < 1300088981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. loo. < 1300089021 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to hack my irssi so as to warn me every time I send a message that looks anything like a window switch < 1300089026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.emaculation.com/doku.php/basilisk_ii So does anyone see a source link on this page? < 1300089029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i don't < 1300089041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they just compile the old jit release they call a historic archive < 1300089052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: do what i do, only be in two channels, so much less confusing < 1300089056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still manage to part them on a regular basis tho < 1300089075 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't < 1300089086 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm at about 25 < 1300089103 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your method sounds lame < 1300089113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think my natural hatred of people helps me stay out of too many channels < 1300089122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i miss nothing! < 1300089141 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yeah, people are dumb < 1300089157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. specially elliott < 1300089160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's the dumbest < 1300089169 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yupyup < 1300089175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only sleeps once every two days < 1300089177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of moron does that < 1300089195 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my school < 1300089200 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faculty, anyway < 1300089207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it < 1300089210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not vey efficient < 1300089217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, usually i even fix typos < 1300089223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that seems pretty hard at this point < 1300089224 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my faculty is very efficient < 1300089231 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have an entire combinatorics and optimization department < 1300089240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you just never sleepif you drink enough coffee, i think this might be practical for me < 1300089246 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1300089253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have proof? < 1300089257 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1300089260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need strong disproof. < 1300089269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in mathematical. saying "oh a bunch of people did this and died" doesn't count. < 1300089272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :start from peano arithmetic < 1300089286 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I time traveled to the future and brought back your corpse after you went insane, thought yourself an automobile, and got run over on the motorway < 1300089292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may assume as an axiom that things exist < 1300089300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the one additional axiom you may assume < 1300089318 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that axiom is inconsistent with the coffee axiom < 1300089325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coffee makes things not exist? < 1300089326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deep. < 1300089333 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in sufficiently large quantities, yes < 1300089334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost as deep as the sleep i'd like to be in. < 1300089336 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hallucinations < 1300089345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah unfortunately i haven't hallucinated yet with this sleep dep < 1300089347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite disappointing < 1300089347 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :black is white < 1300089350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly i'm just irritable and tired < 1300089350 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up is down < 1300089352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hallu would be fun < 1300089352 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :short is long < 1300089363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things would be unicorns and stuff, hallucinations are obviously just like nethack < 1300089366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: omg, but short is only 16 bits. < 1300089373 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleep dep gives boring hallucinations < 1300089379 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: everything you know is wrong < 1300089382 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just forget the words and sing along < 1300089390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sleep dep gives boring hallucinations < 1300089392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than nothing < 1300089402 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1300089599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1300089715 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1300089715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking for gcc... gcc-4.5 < 1300089715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler... no < 1300089715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking whether gcc-4.5 accepts -g... no < 1300089717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"uh." < 1300089738 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1300089758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure:4076: checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler < 1300089759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure:4095: gcc-4.5 -c conftest.c >&5 < 1300089759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure:4095: $? = 0 < 1300089759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure: failed program was: < 1300089759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um. < 1300089764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$? = 0 means it worked, autoconf. < 1300089798 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwut < 1300089810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it keeps assuming that because it worked and $? was 0 that everything failed after that :) < 1300089818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which explains why it's all "oh no, you don't have any headers basically". < 1300089833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure:4255: gcc-4.5 -qlanglvl=extc89 -c conftest.c >&5 < 1300089833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc-4.5: unrecognized option '-qlanglvl=extc89' < 1300089833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure:4255: $? = 0 < 1300089833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure: failed program was: < 1300089838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what. < 1300091019 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: *disappears in a puff of orange smoke* < 1300091387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the best archive format to distribute code for a 68k mac emulator in < 1300091392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously the author of mini vmac < 1300091398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decided "a macintosh disk image" < 1300091416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i swear to god, it's a bootstrapped mac emulator < 1300091609 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To play devil's advocate here, can't OS X mount those old disk images? < 1300091800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: nope < 1300091805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: but more importantl < 1300091806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1300091813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: the build system is a mac os <=6 application < 1300091822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not joking < 1300091837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: < 1300091837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://minivmac.sourceforge.net/doc/build.html < 1300091840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First download the source code archive from the download page, a file with the name “minivmac-3.1.3.src.zip”. Extract from this zip file a disk image (named “minivmac-3.1.3.src.dsk”). < 1300091840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now launch Mini vMac (version 3.0.0 or later), booting from a disk image containing a system folder. (The source code disk image doesn't contain a system folder.) (See the Start page for information about getting started with Mini vMac.) < 1300091840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mount the source code disk image in Mini vMac. At the top level of this disk is an application named "Build". Launch this application. A text editing window will open in which to type in the desired options. < 1300091847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: it's literally a bootstrapped macintosh emulator. < 1300091859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :source distributed as a macintosh boot image, compileable with a macintosh, or a prebuilt verison of itself. < 1300091861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*version < 1300091879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: you will note that this is insane. It does CROSS COMPILING < 1300091885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or... wait. < 1300091896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, it... extracts into the host system or something. < 1300091901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So its configure is just a mac app I DON'T KNOW < 1300091902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S INSANE < 1300091958 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Holy fuck*. < 1300091983 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should sleep. It's 02:23. < 1300091988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1300091989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noob o clock < 1300092022 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I intend to do my diff eq. homework before class tomorrow. < 1300093862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: echo hello >:foo.c; cp foo.c ::; mv ::foo.c :bar.c < 1300093869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEHOLD: MAC PATHNAMES IN UNIX < 1300094846 0 :Guest1055!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1300095178 0 :Guest1055!x@ANantes-259-1-26-226.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1300095911 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: whence? how? < 1300095924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: in my mind!! with magic!!! < 1300095937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i want to implement cygwin for classic mac os. and even have a vague idea how. < 1300095954 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that's .. suitably crazy < 1300095963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: not cygwin itself, but, you know < 1300095965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unix layer < 1300095977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: oh, and i want it to work on System Software 6 too. :) < 1300095987 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally broken layer of brokenness on top of a broken os, check < 1300095989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which looks like this. http://www.operating-system.org/betriebssystem/bsgfx/apple/system6-scr-03.jpg < 1300096003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: old classic mac os isn't broken, just... selective... as to what it wants to acheive < 1300096009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. almost nothing < 1300096017 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice redefinition of not broken there < 1300096040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says the person using the broken os linux < 1300096067 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1300096498 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1300097484 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-44.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300097517 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1300098103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on little mac, load the page, load the page! < 1300098106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do the communication! < 1300098560 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181131199.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300098651 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300098923 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1300098953 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1300099382 0 :Kufiyeh!~Satire@a109-43.adsl.paltel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300099462 0 :Kufiyeh!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1300099509 0 :Kufiyeh!~Satire@a109-43.adsl.paltel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300100017 0 :Kufiyeh!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1300100806 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1300101146 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://morgsatlarge.wordpress.com/2011/03/13/why-i-am-not-worried-about-japans-nuclear-reactors/ < 1300101177 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1300102282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:36:04 AnMaster: that doesn't solve the issue, in fact it introduces an issue, that being that the tabstops are no longer 8 < 1300102282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this log has so much circular logic it hurts < 1300102714 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he's trolling? < 1300103105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: unfortunately not < 1300103119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's a really persistent troll that he's kept up for years and strongly abides by :) < 1300103149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the "TABS=8 AND EVERYONE WHO THINKS TABS!=8 EVER IS WRONG" thing; not that he ever gives a decent argument for it, but this was basically like 3 hours of circular argumentation from him in the logs) < 1300103149 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1300103153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(kinda zassprating) < 1300103169 0 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1300103221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey Vorpal, does that ick on mac classic thing actually work :) < 1300103336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300103340 0 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.126.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300103347 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: where did you download mpw from anyway < 1300103427 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used to be on Apple's FTP, at least. < 1300103441 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The FTP links at http://developer.apple.com/tools/mpw-tools/ seem dead at the moment, though. < 1300103448 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why i done the asking < 1300103453 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i'm the what? < 1300103499 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it wasn't long ago (less than three years, I'd guess) that it still worked. < 1300103506 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but the port thing was 2009. < 1300103521 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i pretty much just want mpw 3 so i can write a unix kernel for system 6 :D < 1300103525 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh i might want to develop on a later version < 1300103529 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vmac can only do original res < 1300103643 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about http://mirrors.vanadac.com/ftp.apple.com/developer/Tool_Chest/Core_Mac_OS_Tools/MPW_etc./ then? < 1300103678 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: whoaa. it's reflecting into my screen-space-visor-vision. < 1300103681 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how'd you do that < 1300103701 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to to figure out what GM vs PR is < 1300103705 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still haven't slept, eh? < 1300103714 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: uh. i deny nothing. < 1300103719 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is to say... < 1300103722 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i nothing deny < 1300103753 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The MPW-GM folder contains a complete Golden Master version of the MPW development environment including the MPW Shell, tools, interfaces and libraries. The software in this folder is considered to be "final" quality. The MPW-PR folder contains Pre-Release versions of some of the software components that make up the MPW development environment." < 1300103784 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Game Master version. < 1300103794 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o k < 1300103801 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't this just the newest version? < 1300103821 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kind of require the version that works on system software 6 which i think is 3 and erliar :) < 1300103845 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahm'k; that might be more problemostic, yes. < 1300103874 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The FTP'd one does require 7.5. < 1300103884 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: whoa. this is how you sneak your bad spellungs into my mindbrane!! < 1300103891 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do it, when i am not conscious, in the fullest degree!!! < 1300103896 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's sneaky and you're bad! i have noticed this! < 1300103905 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if i could stick to the ceiling < 1300103969 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apply enough duck/duct/gaffer tape and I bet you could < 1300104032 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curiously enough, "jesus tape" is the most common Finnish nickname for it. Or even "jesse" or some-such. < 1300104036 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1300104073 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus tpae. that's nice i like that < 1300104728 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :database metallurgy < 1300104819 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :database metallurgy? < 1300104839 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya < 1300104846 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my operationg system is based on it < 1300105180 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, v075 works. < 1300105211 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | Uh, I had a question but I've almost forgotten it. < 1300106333 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300106570 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1300106576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1300106606 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: inspired by the port of C-INTERCAL to classic Mac OS, I have become highly tempted to try writing Cygwin for Classic Mac OS < 1300106618 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, perfect match, right? < 1300106625 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not actual Cygwin, just... a unix layer) < 1300106625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that's a thought that my mind can't actually finish thinking < 1300106628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets stuck halfway through < 1300106631 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1300106633 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it must be a really incredibly bad idea < 1300106646 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, and really incredibly bad ideas are also known as really good ideas! < 1300106648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I will now attempt to forget what it was to save my sanity < 1300106648 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least _here_ < 1300106684 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well hey, C-INTERCAL supports m86k-macos-unknown-mpw (or whatever the thing would be), get ready to support m86k-macos-unknown-gnu! < 1300106685 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR SOMETHING < 1300106690 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Did that patch ever get committed, btw? < 1300106693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1300106697 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why not? < 1300106705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not by me because I didn't review it < 1300106710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not by esr because it didn't have timestamps < 1300106716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure which reason is more spurious < 1300106719 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :timestamps?? < 1300106728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the changes weren't dated with when they were made < 1300106732 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that _matter_? < 1300106735 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you could just say you were looking for an excuse to reject it :P < 1300106809 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, C-INTERCAL bugreport: the configure script doesn't run on i386-win32-unknown-gnu < 1300106822 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that is, it doesn't run in a native Windows version of bash, equipped with all the standard GNU tools < 1300106822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you give a more specific bug report? < 1300106828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, what goes wrong when you try? < 1300106829 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't run = garbage errors from bash < 1300106834 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget exactly, it was a while ago I tried < 1300106837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you try converting newlines first? < 1300106841 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried two ports, none worked < 1300106843 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think I did < 1300106858 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Note that the port versions of bash were 1.something and 2.something respectively < 1300106863 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort of doubt configure supports bash 1 < 1300106867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1300106877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't actually be surprised if it did < 1300106883 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but it's obviously a bug anyway, because it has a shell and gnu tools, so obviously it should be able to run the build system < 1300106885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are all the sections on writing portable sh, and working around bugs < 1300106888 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if I downloaded mingw to be a cc) < 1300106898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although nowadays they tend to abandon support for really old stuff, which is annoying < 1300106909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that defeats half the point of configure, which is to be stupidly backwards-compatible < 1300106918 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: all the bloat, none of the benefit! < 1300106954 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you should write a configure program in strict, avoiding-anything-that-anyone-has-fucked-up-implementing-ever K&R C, then it's _guaranteed_ to be able to configure wherever it can compile < 1300106981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then all it needs is a configure script to configure the compiler correctly for running it < 1300106990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, IIRC jettyplay has a configure script, because I'm insane < 1300107016 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : then all it needs is a configure script to configure the compiler correctly for running it < 1300107023 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you design the configure script so it works with just "cc configure.c" on any compiler < 1300107029 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use system() to do the rest, somehow < 1300107038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Windows, the compiler is called cl < 1300107044 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: substitute cc with the compiler name < 1300107050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm: AC_PATH_PROG([JAVAC], [javac]) < 1300107056 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean that any user that can type ./configure should be able to just give it to the compiler and have it work :) < 1300107057 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha < 1300107063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually in jettyplay source < 1300107088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll be glad to hear I wrote the makefile.in by hand rather than using autoconf, though < 1300107105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's not in the repo, btw; it's in a separate directory) < 1300107107 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes. glad. < 1300107126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# This fails on unusual names for /usr/lib that contain ', &, \ or %. That < 1300107127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# shouldn't be a problem, but you never know... < 1300107138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to figure out if this is a major failing or something completely irrelevant < 1300107146 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my name for /usr/lib is "Tordy Complat Infisiant tumbly Hork" < 1300107150 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my name for /usr/lib is "Tordy Complat Infisiant tumbly Hork%" < 1300107170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally failing on weird punctuation in filenames is bad (see: clc-intercal and mandb), but it seems vaguely unlikely to find it in a localized name for /usr/lib < 1300107173 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you see in @, you don't have to worry about escaping like that! < 1300107174 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as most people just hardcode /usr/lib < 1300107183 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Lojban uses ', at least < 1300107212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :' is the one it's very hard to fix < 1300107222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to there being no way to tell make(1) to shell-escape variables it substitutes < 1300107225 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: you see in @, you don't have to worry about escaping like that! < 1300107234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed, just didn't have a reaction < 1300107241 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but it's TOTALLY RELEVANT >:D < 1300107275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not, anyway? < 1300107289 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because there's no shell, mostly < 1300107301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then how do you run your makefiles? < 1300107314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that I was trying to substitute something into the replacement side of a sed s/// regexp < 1300107317 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you don't; if you _did_ have a build system, it'd run code in @lang, which serves as the shell < 1300107339 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but even just using Python as the shell in Unix doesn't compare, because @lang actions don't just take strings and return strings < 1300107340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it doesn't run standard GNU configure files < 1300107343 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1300107349 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've fixed your bug at its source! < 1300107352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, seriously, people use Python as a shell? < 1300107352 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it turns out, the source is everything < 1300107358 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, but I was preempting a rebuttal < 1300107361 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. "oh well that's just sh" < 1300107367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1300107376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I interpreted as being more like Powershell than sh < 1300107379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only probably less insane < 1300107381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*interpreted it < 1300107391 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, might want a beta oberon, this hasn't been updated since 1999... < 1300107392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, what you've described sounds more or less like the entire rationale for Powershell < 1300107404 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep, except powershell makes a lousy programming language < 1300107408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you can ignore it as Microsoft almost certainly screwed up the implementaiton < 1300107410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*implementation < 1300107411 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it also makes a lousy shell, but that's not inherent) < 1300107474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, languages can be good at one and bad at the other, or vice versa, or both or neither < 1300107485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that last sentence of mine was worryingly zzo38ish < 1300107495 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: A C compiler would probably look like - GCC compile(my-bytestring) < 1300107503 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has to be a bytestring (or a string, I suppose), because of cpp < 1300107519 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you had some already-preprocessed-and-now-a-C-code-object code, it'd look more like GCC compile(that) :P < 1300107542 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was actually thinking of what a "Unix-like" shell in @ would look like < 1300107548 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I concluded that < 1300107550 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ cc foo.c < 1300107571 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would produce a box with "Native function" at the top of it, and some assembly code below, plus links to a bunch of inspectors < 1300107582 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "$ cc foo.c > foo" would introduce the alias "foo" in the current environment for that object < 1300107585 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which could be called with ./foo < 1300107595 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(foo.c is of course just an alias for another object, as @ has no filesystem) < 1300107617 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr EVERYTHING IS OBJECTS < 1300107624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, if you do that lazily, you could have lazy debug info < 1300107630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that idea < 1300107632 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brilliant < 1300107648 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: although, all standard @lang objects already have debugging, by virtue of being tied to their source < 1300107668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1300107676 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (AFAICT prebuilt binaries would be completely useless in @ as the compiler would be as fast as machinely possible) < 1300107676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean more extensive debug info could be generated on-demand < 1300107679 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1300107688 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it sort of can, if the machine code is tied to the source < 1300107692 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can always re-scan that area < 1300107720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I was going to say "you could even add things like debug printf statements to a program and rerun it in the environment it started running in", but then realised that things were getting dangerously Feather < 1300107742 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope, that's still pretty solidly @ < 1300107749 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, obviously the outside world wouldn't change < 1300107769 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, and the debugger would be entirely source-based, and let you change expressions in the program on the fly :) < 1300107774 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have them recompile into the right place < 1300107789 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could even add debug printfs to a running program just by adding them in the debugger < 1300107796 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then save the changes if you want to keep them < 1300107814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, why are there not enbuggers? < 1300107826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, programs that help you figure out good places to put hard-to-find and subtle bugs in programs? < 1300107827 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because the debugger works perfectly well for that job < 1300107838 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and of _course_, you can debug a running debugger. < 1300107841 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that metadebugger too. < 1300107848 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just in case you've ever wanted to do something completely pointless. < 1300107877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: some of the TAS people have been known to run debuggers around emulators that didn't have memory watch, to debug the program running inside the emulator by debugging the emulator itself < 1300107895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which to me seems a lot more work than just changing the emulator to have the features you need < 1300107948 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, in @, you could have a really long-running debugging session, so long-running that you never want to exit it ever < 1300107952 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you want to do something the debugger can't do < 1300107956 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you open a debugger on the debugger < 1300107959 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :patch the feature in to the debugger < 1300107960 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and resume < 1300107967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brilliant! < 1300107970 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaving the long-lived debugger with the new feature you need! < 1300107977 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you could even save it to the standard debugger for future use < 1300108000 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I hope to replace all development with successive applications of nested debugging by 2020 < 1300108133 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, oberon's mouse acceleration is far too high < 1300108195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was a programming language, not an OS? < 1300108201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do programming languages have mouse acceleration? < 1300108205 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: false dichotomy! < 1300108206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose their standard libraries might < 1300108219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you mean it's a programming language and also an OS, Smalltalk-style? < 1300108233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even then, I tend to mentally separate the two, and do not consider gst to be an abomination, but that's maybe just me) < 1300108263 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I am referring to {Oberon (operating system)}, which is based on an implementation of {Oberon (programming language)}; *but* {Oberon (operating system)} is the only existing embodiment of the "Oberon system" that the {Oberon (programming language)} specifies and is designed to be used in < 1300108275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1300108277 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, I'm referring to the {Native Oberon} flavour of {Oberon (operating system)} < 1300108292 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, really, there's little point distinguishing them < 1300108305 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because Unix pretends to be language-agnostic (it's not, see: C), doesn't mean everything does < 1300108324 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(similarly, just because something isn't language-agnostic, doesn't mean it's not language-hostile (see Lisp Machines, which had C compilers)) < 1300108329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, does {} introduce an FFI to Wikipedia-style disambig parens? < 1300108335 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does now! < 1300108370 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so right-click drag with insanely high mouse acceleration is the most difficult operation possible on a macbook < 1300108384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you using the touchpad or an external mouse? < 1300108388 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :touchpad < 1300108394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, do you mean mouse acceleration, or mouse speed? < 1300108401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very high levels of acceleration give you lots of precision on a touchpad < 1300108402 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both, I think < 1300108405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1300108405 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to tell when it's so fast < 1300108410 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is a 640x480 window :) < 1300108425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, very high mouse acceleration would mean that if you moved the touchpad slowly, the cursor would move very slowly indeed < 1300108429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to moving it quickly < 1300108486 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, better create a partition before trying to isntall oberon < 1300108487 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*install < 1300108493 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wikipedia page reads like an advertisement < 1300108502 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: or, it could go insanely fast when i moved it slowly, and SUPER INSANELY FAST hen i went faster < 1300108698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you couldn't tell if it was accelerated or not < 1300108736 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's the standard size of a cylinder these days? :-P < 1300108752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean a hard drive cylinder? < 1300108762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that question was along the same lines as "how long is a piece of string?" < 1300108768 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1300108771 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah hd cylinder < 1300108778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1300108786 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no let's pretend i meant it in the other sense < 1300108788 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a far better sense < 1300108813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1300108963 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1300108968 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would like to see a self-modifying paintfuck < 1300108971 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All CHS addresses are utter lies nowadays anyway, so it's probably not a very relevant number any more. < 1300108975 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, a paintfuck that interprets the graphical space as a program somehow < 1300108980 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you set the space up and run it < 1300108984 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be the pretties < 1300108987 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes but fdisk wants me to set one < 1300108993 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Number of cylinders (1-1048576): < 1300108996 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to let me paaaartition this fake disk < 1300109014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it should OCR the graphical space and interpret it as a PF program < 1300109019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interpreter should, I mean < 1300109029 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha < 1300109033 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i didn't mean just for initial loading though :) < 1300109033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the only way to stay within the spirit of PF < 1300109038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1300109038 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it reverse-OCR it every step? < 1300109042 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, I'm scared < 1300109051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, every step it OCRs the current playfield, and interprets it as the program < 1300109063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the playfield's initialised with a reverse-OCR (i.e. printout) of the program you give it < 1300109109 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1300109114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why eek? < 1300109120 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that sounds terrifying :) < 1300109166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it surely isn't that bad compared to some of the things #esoteric comes up with? < 1300109190 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, no, but it's still perverse in a unique way of its own < 1300109216 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which sort of fdisk is this that it can't read the disk geometry from somewhere? < 1300109227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: one working on an imaginary drive < 1300109238 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: one working on a file that's a bunch of 0s < 1300109241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't actually have any geometry until you define what it is < 1300109242 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for a qemuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu < 1300109250 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qem < 1300109253 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qem\mu < 1300109259 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. A "standard" fake-cylinder in pc-ishnowadays is 63*255 sectors (255 fake-heads and 63 sectors per fake-track; about 8 megabytes). < 1300109264 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qemµ < 1300109274 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ishnow/ish systems is now/ < 1300109297 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So 130-or-so cylinders in this. < 1300109300 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1 gig) < 1300109334 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 130*63*255*512 < 1300109334 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1069286400 < 1300109339 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how many bytes you'd get. < 1300109347 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With the largest possible cylinders.) < 1300109350 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLOSE ENOUGH < 1300109380 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qe� < 1300109482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, fizzie's nick length is almost exactly the right length (out by one pixel) to make the > to call lambdabot line up with the > to delimit elliott_'s nick < 1300109495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it made me confused as to why lambdabot responded to one but not the other < 1300109500 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ocd much < 1300109500 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-p < 1300109502 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*P < 1300109520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the one pixel difference doesn't bother me, it's just that it's such a small difference I missed it was there < 1300109760 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c'mon oberon, you can boot! < 1300109807 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not evidently < 1300109809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I was reading a page on c2 < 1300109815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and noticed it mentioned the LGPL < 1300109826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thought "hmm, that's a bit modern for c2 to be referencing, isn't it?" < 1300109838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm trying to work out why I had such an illogical thought < 1300109891 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :wat: < 1300109900 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, since much of c2 hasn't been touched in a decade? *exaggeration* < 1300109921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: for some reason I assume it captures computer knowledge from Before Time Began, or something like that < 1300109923 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this bitz stuff is out of control < 1300109983 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember a time when there were occasional changes being done on C2 wiki < 1300110004 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ok grandpa < 1300110062 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, time to get to school < 1300110465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: can you think of any reason why I'd get 504 errors on the vast majority (but not all) of attempts to submit HTTP POST requests, from one laptop but on more than one Internet connection, and how repeatedly trying until it works makes it work eventually? < 1300110475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the set of symptoms seems to make no sense to me < 1300110490 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's making demon fly out of your nose, washing the windows api, and the ISS servers are getting all soapy < 1300110494 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*demons < 1300110498 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300110500 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and servers tend to perform worse when soapy < 1300110515 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even if they're running on apache, they tend to get bits of soap from them as the iss content disseminates throughout the internet) < 1300110517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, SOAP is famously bad < 1300110518 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope this helps < 1300110614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone else have ideas that aren't DS9K-related? < 1300110649 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm offended < 1300110660 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300110979 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300110995 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... I think I should actually design an esolang based on fractal circuits. < 1300111101 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: How many billions of unpublished esolangs do you have? < 1300111208 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 esolangs that are "unpublished". I like esolangs that aren't just minor variations of Brainfuck. < 1300111216 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who doesn't? :-) < 1300111226 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just seem to talk about random esolangs you've made that nobody seems to have ever heard of a lot :-P < 1300111270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: strangely, we have a section on that in the paper we're writing right now < 1300111273 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have designed 3 so far (this fractal-circuit based esolang isn't in that). < 1300111273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fractal circuits, that is < 1300111292 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fractal circuits is something that sounds nice but is probably useless :D < 1300111298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't useless < 1300111302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the usual way to implement a sort in hardware < 1300111305 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1300111325 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that so worthy of damnation? < 1300111331 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know, all three are turing complete. And this fourth would be too. < 1300111337 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: my prediction was wrong! < 1300111347 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, "damn" is an incredibly mild utterance no matter what you say :) < 1300111350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to not be TC if a language is at all interesting < 1300111372 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't know whether Wapr is turing complete or not. < 1300111382 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, *jumping to -1 is exciting < 1300111383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't know whether Dupdog is turing complete or not < 1300111387 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it isn't < 1300111387 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : this log has so much circular logic it hurts <-- haha < 1300111397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: was that proved? < 1300111399 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It hurts because it has so much circular logic. < 1300111406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rare to have a language that's non-TC, but not trivially non-TC < 1300111413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as ()^: Underload demonstrated < 1300111414 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, not on the wikipedia page, but IIRC oerjan pretty much slam-dunked it once < 1300111421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Esolang, I hope < 1300111424 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, yes < 1300111433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xigxag's another lang with similar properties < 1300111435 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Jumping_to_-1_is_exciting Quick! Is my badly-specified old esolang TC??? < 1300111437 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (the "TABS=8 AND EVERYONE WHO THINKS TABS!=8 EVER IS WRONG" thing; not that he ever gives a decent argument for it, but this was basically like 3 hours of circular argumentation from him in the logs) <-- I think his argument boiled down to it being traditional < 1300111448 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh er < 1300111454 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those things after the command chars < 1300111455 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are stack traces < 1300111455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, was someone ohter than me arguing that? < 1300111457 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :top first < 1300111462 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not arg params or something < 1300111471 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, I just read the log where you spent a few hours dedicated to arguing it :D < 1300111479 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing personal, it just hurt me inside < 1300111486 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hey Vorpal, does that ick on mac classic thing actually work :) <-- it works but the MPW C compiler fails on some generated programs. IIRC it was due to bugs in the MPW C compiler < 1300111487 0 :cheater00!~cheater@e181136126.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300111489 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a true logreader never abandons his log. < 1300111502 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pets log
< 1300111511 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: where did you download mpw from anyway <-- apple ftp. As a set of 14 or so segmented .img (no not .dmg, that is OS X only) < 1300111519 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah, that ftp is down now. < 1300111525 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, MrC is that buggy? aargh < 1300111534 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means I'll have to try and get gcc 2 compiled... < 1300111543 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will be so unfun it's hard to even articulate < 1300111581 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I forgot what it failed on < 1300111599 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: It hurts because it has so much circular logic. <-- :) < 1300111605 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300111617 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, anyway, I did not port it for 68k < 1300111627 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh and sheepshaver is too buggy to compile one of the object files < 1300111630 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what's the difference < 1300111633 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't the toolchain semi-agnostic < 1300111649 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, iirc the compiler switches have rather different names < 1300111660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway ick generates command lines for things < 1300111674 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, whatever, I have to get gcc working SOMETIME! < 1300111678 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I needed to compile that one object file on my old ibook, then copy it across. < 1300111691 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheepshaver crashed on it < 1300111693 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what i can't figure out how to do is how to provide an fopen() with filename translation. < 1300111698 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to shadow the libc's < 1300111700 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then call it < 1300111704 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without dlopen and friends this sounds impossible < 1300111706 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I believe I did filename translation in ick < 1300111707 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or inline asm < 1300111709 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1300111714 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but not at fopen() level < 1300111717 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1300111720 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think cygwin, i have to give this to other programs instead of libc < 1300111733 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, anyway iirc ick had something like #define PATH_SEP '/' < 1300111735 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or similar < 1300111744 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but nothing else does :D < 1300111751 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I had to rewrite some function to not add non-required path separators < 1300111779 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, foo//bar is just verbose. but foo::bar is plain wrong < 1300111785 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1300111788 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the need for translation < 1300111800 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: amusingly, since translation must handle , you can mix and match! < 1300111807 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pop quiz: what does /:x mean? < 1300111822 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, anyway where do you plan to run MrC? < 1300111826 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where? < 1300111830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1300111832 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheepshaver? < 1300111836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: the same as x:\ from WIndows, only backwards < 1300111839 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, vMac and Basilisk. < 1300111847 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I explicitly want to make sure it works on System Software 6 < 1300111848 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh so SC then? not MrC? < 1300111852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so great you used a symmetrical letter there, or the joke wouldn't have worked! < 1300111853 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SC is the 68k compiler iirc < 1300111854 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, is there another compiler? < 1300111862 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: really, that's just a stopgap measure until I get gcc bootstrapped < 1300111862 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes MrC is PPC, SC is 68k < 1300111870 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetBSD can run on them I think < 1300111874 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so gcc is feasible, fsvo feasible < 1300111890 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, didn't apple use to cross compile Mac OS from some unix system or such? < 1300111899 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God knows. < 1300111905 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I were sane I'd just use A/UX. < 1300111909 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not sane. < 1300111916 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, isn't A/UX apple's? < 1300111919 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1300111920 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never tried it < 1300111925 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not very good, I gather. < 1300111937 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway, if this actually gets working I'm sure I can buy a Macintosh Plus just to see it run :P < 1300111945 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Memory 1 MB, expandable to 4 MB (150 ns 30-pin SIMM) < 1300111946 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll be fun with gcc < 1300111951 0 :Guest1055!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1300111956 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, anyway there was this site with "abandonware" for classic mac < 1300111959 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to remember the name < 1300111962 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's several aren't there :D < 1300111962 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU ld has a "--wrap" thing for that sort of library-wrapping, which lets you override library functions in such a way that the overriding code can call the original. (I can't be bothered to read all the context to see if that's relevant.) < 1300111965 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, had lots < 1300111980 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, ah http://www.macintoshgarden.org/ < 1300111983 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: classic macintosh. < 1300111993 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, that site has various mpw versions iirc < 1300111997 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but you keep talking about GCC too. < 1300111998 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, and sdks too < 1300112013 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, are you aware of how the MPW shell works? < 1300112016 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well that's the GOAL. < 1300112018 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Badly, yes. < 1300112020 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I read the logs. < 1300112023 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I am now an expert. < 1300112032 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Maybe I can avoid MPW entirely by CROSS-COMPILING. < 1300112037 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except I doubt cross-compiling would work at all. < 1300112040 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, and why ick can't call the compiler (I made it an mpw tool) < 1300112046 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because that solved stdio issues) < 1300112054 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Indeed; thankfully, whateverit'scalled solves that! < 1300112062 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Who needs the MPW shell when you have Real Authentic Make? < 1300112064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whateverit'scalled is a great name < 1300112074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because of the apostrophe < 1300112076 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, what are you trying to compile for it? < 1300112080 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Huh? < 1300112081 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, to use --wrap, one must relink the program. < 1300112093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I think you may need to implement stdin/out/err by hand < 1300112097 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, what is your *goal* here < 1300112099 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: My current naming scheme has gone something like Unix for Mac -> Uforma -> Euphorma, but I'm not sure where to go from there < 1300112105 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Unix for Mac. < 1300112113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could change the m to an i and get a real word < 1300112119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which may or may not be used atm < 1300112119 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed, I noticed < 1300112121 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, right. You need to write something like a shell for it < 1300112123 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what's more euphoric than Unix! < 1300112128 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No. I'll use bash. < 1300112132 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Just like Cygwin does. < 1300112136 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, what do you run bash in < 1300112141 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In...? < 1300112153 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you will need to write a terminal emulator < 1300112153 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I want to be able to double click "Start Euphorma" on my System Software 6 desktop, have it start up a vt100 emulator program, and point it at a pty, on which it starts bash. < 1300112156 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I'm saying < 1300112165 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I could maybe even reuse an existing one for the time being *shrug* i.e. telnet client < 1300112171 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes maybe < 1300112186 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But that's a trivial problem compared to all the huge ones :P < 1300112189 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: For instance: cooperative multitasking. < 1300112207 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Current plan is just "whenever we get control from the program, YIELD, and if it does for (;;); that's not our problem". < 1300112220 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you could set up some kind of timer interrupt and then cause it to yield or something, that would be an option too. < 1300112235 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course in old System Software versions all Unix software will stop when you tab away. < 1300112258 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1300112260 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In a way, it'll be a hosted microkernel plus a POSIX libc. < 1300112263 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1300112272 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hosted microkernel to handle taskswitching, POSIX libc to wrap the existing libc and add Unix functions. < 1300112280 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, how long before you give this project up do you think? < 1300112287 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not long! But it's fun to think about now. < 1300112296 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I should learn the Macintosh Toolbox. < 1300112305 0 :Guest1055!~buttes@ANantes-259-1-71-250.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1300112313 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I have no idea about that. I know it exists... That is about all < 1300112319 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the API. < 1300112319 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, wasn't it 68k only? < 1300112321 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's Pascal. < 1300112322 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No. < 1300112323 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in PPC used something else < 1300112354 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, in the version of MPW I have, Pascal seems to be treated like a second class citizen. < 1300112364 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yah, but the APIs are all Pascal. < 1300112370 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why you can say "\pxyz" in MPW to get a Pascal string. < 1300112384 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I'm fairly sure you need an older one to make it run on 68k. As in last MPW won't < 1300112417 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be wrong though < 1300112441 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, also did 68k have MMUs? < 1300112445 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Of course, MPW 3 was the last I think. < 1300112452 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But like I said, I can't rely on MPW for too long :P < 1300112454 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No MMU. < 1300112456 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But an MMU is irrelevant. < 1300112458 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They used to cross-develop Mac OS stuff from Lisa. < 1300112463 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, fun < 1300112469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: how are you planning to implement alarm()? < 1300112484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can't even do non-coop multitasking, then that should be near-impossible < 1300112488 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Does the 68k have timer interrupts? :p < 1300112500 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It must do, since Mac OS 9 did mostly preemptive multithreading. < 1300112504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, nor whether you can hook them without doing inline asm or whatever < 1300112507 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'll just use that. < 1300112526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think my new esolang I'm mulling over atm will have both pre-emptive and cooperative multithreading, because < 1300112560 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It must do, since Mac OS 9 did mostly preemptive multithreading. <-- wasn't OS 8.something the last to run on 68k < 1300112561 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Processors in general tend to have just "interrupts", it's up to the surrounding hardware to cause them using timers. < 1300112581 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1300112582 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh right. < 1300112585 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yesyesyes < 1300112588 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tired, i bbreviate < 1300112596 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, actually OS 9 did preemptive but with one task doing most of the job. That task internally doing cooperative < 1300112597 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i could get the fpu to divide by zero at JUST the right moment < 1300112604 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ah... < 1300112608 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it was like the other way around < 1300112615 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cooperative at the top layer, and main task doing preempting < 1300112615 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you had to call this main task for stuff like file system and what not even < 1300112631 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, so in practise it wasn't preemptive in any useful sense < 1300112632 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, i need to run on 68k. < 1300112635 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just not impressive if I can't! < 1300112666 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cooperative at the top layer, and main task doing preempting <-- except the top layer being thicker than the main layer < 1300112687 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300112704 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : maybe i could get the fpu to divide by zero at JUST the right moment < 1300112706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote maybe i could get the fpu to divide by zero at JUST the right moment < 1300112706 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was the best idea ever < 1300112715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I was addquoting it even before you requoted it yourself < 1300112715 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, as far as I remember about the only useful API for "native preemptive tasks" (called "blue tasks" iirc!) that didn't call the cooperative code was memory allocation < 1300112739 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bloo tasqs < 1300112740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think insightful's better than funny for qdbs < 1300112741 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure a 68k mac would have timer interrupts, but hooking into them would most likely be rather undocumented and kludgy. < 1300112758 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: this whole idea is pretty much undocumented and kludgy. < 1300112766 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why it's great! < 1300112767 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, quite. < 1300112776 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main priority is getting MPW 3 anyway :P < 1300112781 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking that site now < 1300112782 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, codewarrior 6 < 1300112783 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, wouldn't the CPU have internal timers? < 1300112789 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait.. not a SOC < 1300112806 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i imagine 68k's inability to support good preemptive multitasking drove the switch away partly. < 1300112815 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realised I never done really low level coding for anything except SOCs. < 1300112817 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully, _I_ am not constrained by requirements of goodness < 1300112832 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, also the memory limit I bet < 1300112834 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: write a boot sector, it's easy and you can say you've done it :P < 1300112837 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, the memory limit < 1300112840 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, hell no :P < 1300112845 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 8 megs is plenty, and that's just 24-bit system 6 limit! < 1300112865 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, fun thing about Mac OS. The OS could move memory around under you < 1300112866 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :68k can run Linux just fine (for some values of "fine", anyway...), so there's nothing unfixably wrong in the hardware. < 1300112869 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.macintoshgarden.org/apps/macintosh-common-lisp-20 :D MCL < 1300112876 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Right, and also NetBSD. < 1300112879 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you had these kind of handles, and you needed to go through them < 1300112882 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a lot of stuff < 1300112884 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of *course* it runs NetBSD. < 1300112894 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: And thankfully old Mac OS pretty much let you take over everything, so... < 1300112901 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://craftbook.sk89q.com/wiki/Perlstone seems to qualify as a "practical" esolang < 1300112903 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: for gc, obviously! < 1300112905 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, since there was not MMU it couldn't use virtual memory to patch up address space, so it had to move stuff around under you < 1300112912 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: Scared to click. < 1300112914 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes kind of gc yes < 1300112922 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: lol, "The language was designed and the interpreter written by Lymia." < 1300112925 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: hello < 1300112925 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, but more kind of ghetto virtual memory :P < 1300112933 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and yeah, I just started to play Minecraft very recently) < 1300112941 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: ugh < 1300112958 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, the koreans have found another game ending in "craft" < 1300112962 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the esoteric nature is intentional, right? :p < 1300112965 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now nothing can stop a global economic meltdown :( < 1300112972 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, what? < 1300112976 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://p.zem.fi/68k-virtual-memory ← also one of the best solutions ever. < 1300112985 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: no, MC was popular since 2010 in Korea :p < 1300112986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Korean MMO crazes mostly stayed confined to (South) Korea < 1300112989 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Dem Koreans are known for their... fondness of Starcraft :P < 1300112997 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: lifthrasiir is Korean, unless I'm seriously mistaken < 1300113003 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was very lazy compared to my friends... < 1300113004 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, did macs use the original 68000 or? < 1300113011 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh okay < 1300113012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's not the whole world that's doomed, just South Korea < 1300113012 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :late* < 1300113033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard that people voluntarily install rootkits over there to "prove" they aren't cheating in online games... < 1300113040 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Early models, yes. < 1300113058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I suppose is actually a sensible idea if you trust the game manufacturer < 1300113071 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I heard that story you linked before, but what I never understood why they went to that length to solve it. Why not just use a different CPU? < 1300113084 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: afaik it is rather involuntarily, but that sounds plausible < 1300113085 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mac II seems to be 68020-based already. < 1300113096 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1300113105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: well, when the alternative is not running the game < 1300113107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo: seriously? < 1300113117 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as an account forgery is quite a problem nowadays < 1300113123 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who needs virtual memory < 1300113125 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or mmu < 1300113126 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or anything < 1300113129 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unix doesn't need that! < 1300113133 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I mean, it's not the whole world that's doomed, just South Korea < 1300113136 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the manufacturing! < 1300113153 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, true but I remember having to reboot mac os due to buggy programs many times < 1300113161 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah but gnu coders are perfect. < 1300113164 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, har < 1300113187 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, anyway, I had MacBugs (or whatever the spelling was... MacsBug?) < 1300113205 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macsbug < 1300113210 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, and I seen it say "Unable to Find System Heap. Heap list corrupted" or some such < 1300113216 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, that is why you want an MMU :P < 1300113248 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who needs debugging... < 1300113251 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just don't write bad code < 1300113251 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, remember the FS wasn't journaling either :P < 1300113267 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh I could debug. I just couldn't kill the app. Had to reboot. < 1300113276 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's instant anyway < 1300113295 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg < 1300113298 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple smalltalk 80 :D < 1300113311 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind, euphorma cancelled, perfect os discovered < 1300113314 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;D < 1300113316 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well that was OS 9, so not quite. < 1300113323 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right. one of the bad ones < 1300113347 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Archived (171.17 MB) < 1300113347 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Temporarily unavailable due to high bandwidth costs < 1300113347 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--mpw < 1300113349 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1300113357 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well anyway System 7 didn't boot instantly on hardware available when System 7 was new < 1300113363 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: system 6 did. < 1300113372 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, possibly. Don't remember that. < 1300113380 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not possibly, definitely :) < 1300113381 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, what OS did Classic run? < 1300113387 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh? < 1300113388 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in Macintosh Classic < 1300113391 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an apple model < 1300113392 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it 6? < 1300113395 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or older? < 1300113425 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, when I was small my dad had one of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_Classic < 1300113429 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh < 1300113431 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1300113437 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah 6 it says < 1300113440 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Classic used the System 6.0.7 operating system with support for all versions up to System 7.5.5. A hidden Hierarchical File System (HFS) disk volume contained in the read-only memory (ROM) included System 6.0.3.[17] The Mac Classic could be booted into System 6.0.3 by holding down the Command + Option + X + O keys during boot.[17] < 1300113441 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1300113450 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Plus was what debut'ddd 6 < 1300113464 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the hidden rom? < 1300113469 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god knows < 1300113473 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for recoevry? < 1300113474 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recovery. < 1300113487 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, why not use the OS included originally then (6.0.7) < 1300113490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recovery was my guess when I saw that < 1300113499 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: god knows; not available when that part was being designed? < 1300113500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and presumably because 6.0.3 was known not-fatally-buggy, 6.0.7 wasn't < 1300113501 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not tested yet? < 1300113503 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1300113507 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1300113540 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm learning Objective-C and my friend have a real Macintosh IIci, that uses a Mac System 7(specifically 7.5.5 with a 68k processor) and I've installed Metrowerks C/C++ IDE(I think it's the version 1, but I don't know), but i didn't tested it, then i want to know one thing: It's possible to develop in Objective-C using NSObjects/Objects and AppKit or something like this on it? Thanks. < 1300113540 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1300113541 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 MHz heh < 1300113543 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--stack overfail < 1300113578 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, you've used compilers that support 16-bit archs, right? < 1300113578 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, also Apple likes to reuse product names < 1300113581 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any that might do m68k? :p < 1300113594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1300113595 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Classic featured several improvements over the Macintosh Plus, which it replaced as Apple's low-end Mac computer: it was up to 25 percent faster than the Plus and included an Apple SuperDrive 3.5" floppy disk drive as standard.[16] The SuperDrive could read and write to Macintosh, MS-DOS, OS/2, and ProDOS disks." < 1300113601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite having used them, I didn't really understand how they worked < 1300113614 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, SuperDrive. Wasn't that Apple's DVD-RAM drive during the G3/G4 era? < 1300113625 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it aws a flopy drive < 1300113628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was more on the "run the command and hope" level, like I'm currently at with Marst < 1300113638 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, as well < 1300113648 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, they reused the trademark is what I'm saying < 1300113662 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia agrees < 1300113665 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inded < 1300113667 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eed. < 1300113669 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :key repeat sucks. < 1300113694 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, lack of in this case? < 1300113700 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it just takes too long. < 1300113709 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, wait you mean *that* key repeat? < 1300113710 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Installing binutils and GCC as cross-compiler for the Motorolla 68000" < 1300113711 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wjw < 1300113715 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people use it to type? < 1300113719 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no < 1300113720 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but like < 1300113722 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i'm this tired < 1300113724 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't tap e twice < 1300113728 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just sortal inger on the e key < 1300113730 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you are tired. Okay < 1300113731 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't really work < 1300113742 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wait since when does m68k be supported by... < 1300113745 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is m68k 32-bit? < 1300113750 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is. < 1300113751 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue < 1300113753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I didn't realise it was possible to be so tired that you couldn't press a given key twice in a row < 1300113756 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so gcc supports it! < 1300113759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I recommend sleeping, in such cases < 1300113759 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m68k-coff, for one < 1300113767 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: at 2 pm? that would be unwise < 1300113776 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, my brain's still awake, mostly, it's just everything else that's being stupid < 1300113782 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: this is almost always true) < 1300113786 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC is what Linux/m68k runs on. < 1300113798 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you need sleep then < 1300113800 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeeees, but I'm trying to produce Mack-in-tosh boonaries here. < 1300113806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I tend to be sufficiently bad at sleeping at will, that when I do sleep, it's often at arbitrary times of day < 1300113808 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : GCC is what Linux/m68k runs on. <-- wait what < 1300113813 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure what the executable format is. :p < 1300113815 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux/m68k runs on GCC? < 1300113824 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since when was GCC an OS or such < 1300113826 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: That's just a binutils issue. < 1300113832 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "just" < 1300113833 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Is based on. < 1300113845 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "is compiled with"? < 1300113854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is gcc turing-complete? < 1300113858 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1300113861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the compiler itself, rather than the executables it produces < 1300113870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(adjust for infinite memory) < 1300113875 0 :Guest1055!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahahah < 1300113880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, obviously, C++ templates < 1300113883 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know what format 68k binaries are? :P < 1300113884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about just the C part? < 1300113885 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then we first need to define what it executes. Command line options? < 1300113886 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The m68k is also what you might call "moderately 32-bit"; the address bus is just 24 bits (at least in 680N0 with small N). < 1300113890 0 :Guest1055!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got a captcha with "pi-calculus" < 1300113893 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest1055: hello slereheareareareareareah < 1300113894 0 :Guest1055!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With like, an actual pi < 1300113900 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reearearafreaeereearreeearaerarareera < 1300113902 0 :Guest1055!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Slereah < 1300113906 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Indeed, but. < 1300113909 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Close enough for gcc! < 1300113915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: did you type it? < 1300113918 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah < 1300113924 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just switched to another one < 1300113927 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, by that token x86-64 is "moderately 64-bit". 48 bits isn't it? < 1300113936 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: http://zem.fi/~fis/faircaptcha.png < 1300113941 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and physical bus tends to be between 36 and 42 or so < 1300113945 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw that one yeah < 1300113947 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: \pi-calculus < 1300113951 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably more for server CPUs) < 1300113952 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed < 1300113964 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it is inglip's commad. < 1300113965 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*command. < 1300113966 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the problem of using captchas as OCRs < 1300113993 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well system 7 had more than 24-bit < 1300113996 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at leassttstst < 1300114010 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Slereah: http://zem.fi/~fis/faircaptcha.png <-- did you enter the TeX code? < 1300114059 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i go into #macintosh < 1300114060 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ask < 1300114063 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is cyrilic even in basic latex? < 1300114070 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what executable format did 68k macintosh system software use < 1300114075 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and watch the blank stares < 1300114082 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the answer is obvious, and it is yes < 1300114090 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Seems that 68020 and later ones had a full 32-bit address bus. (Discounting the el-cheapo model 68EC020.) < 1300114104 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It was a comment form and I didn't have anything to say, so no. < 1300114121 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TYPICAL FINN ANTISOCIALITY < 1300114138 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oops"; accidentally typed #minecraft instead. < 1300114139 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They had those 68k/ppc "fat binaries" even back then, like they have ppc/x86 now. < 1300114141 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expect TkTech in 3, 2, 1... < 1300114152 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "Now"; not really any more :P < 1300114215 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliott < 1300114217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1300114217 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1300114321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha i have bamboozled them iwth the complexiti of my questionssodifj < 1300114321 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1300114337 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The old executable format seems to be called PEF, and according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preferred_Executable_Format it's co-used by BeOS on PPC. < 1300114355 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, at least the "fat binary" m68k/ppc one. < 1300114359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : what executable format did 68k macintosh system software use <-- what one did it use? < 1300114367 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might well be that thin binaries used something completely different. < 1300114368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : So... anybody happen to know what executable format 68k Mac OS used? < 1300114368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't recall what its name was, but it involved pieces of code stored as individual resources in the app's resource fork < 1300114368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Well, that sounds pleasant. I was hoping it'd be something I could coerce binutils into generating with only mild pain. Naive of me. < 1300114373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Something terrifying. < 1300114381 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right PEF. I think I saw that somewhere. < 1300114386 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes the CODE resource I think < 1300114413 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hey there was a "plugin" to resedit that added a disassembler for CODE resources < 1300114415 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember that < 1300114428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, now tell me how to make them from outside Macq :P < 1300114439 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you need to handle resource fork < 1300114442 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is tricky < 1300114461 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I suggest generating a MacBinary or .hqx file as compiler output, then unpacking that on a mac < 1300114462 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1300114483 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway even PPC apps relied quite a bit on the resource fork to work < 1300114495 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though the actual code was IIRC in the data fork then < 1300114524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1300114542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically i don't even wanna generate apps i think < 1300114546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i don't want them to spawn gui crap < 1300114547 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the resedit disasemmbler was quite nice. It could follow jumps when you clicked on jump or call instructions < 1300114554 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also backtrack any jumps to a specific line < 1300114557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, @ can do that. < 1300114563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it was a fun setup, code would be split into many resources and this was used as a primitive form of swap < 1300114565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm scared < 1300114573 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1300114583 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway you need one app that you run to start this thingy < 1300114604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: of course. i was thinking that one would be the EuphormaKernel < 1300114611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the other would just be EuphormaTerm < 1300114616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "Start Euphorma" would just open both < 1300114629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. < 1300114636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the terminal would have to pass control to the kernel. < 1300114636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun. < 1300114637 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, two? IPC? < 1300114638 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1300114648 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here, have some file format documentation (disclaimer: it might only have the m68k XCOFF object file format docs): http://mirrors.vanadac.com/ftp.apple.com/developer/Tool_Chest/Core_Mac_OS_Tools/MPW_etc./Documentation/MPW_Reference/File_Formats.sit.hqx < 1300114649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: err, because all the terminal does is a pty thing? < 1300114650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1300114654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose i could make the unix thing a library < 1300114657 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh and remember you can only start one instance of an app < 1300114658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and compile it into the terminal < 1300114667 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah you need to do the programs inside differently < 1300114670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that XCOFF thing, can i use it without worrying about all these forks? < 1300114700 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think the object files are rather forkless, but not really sure. < 1300114702 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you *need* resource fork for the kernel/terminal bit though. Or at least for some type of launcher < 1300114706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1300114713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So the only problem there is STARTING them :) < 1300114714 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also you can't run an object file < 1300114716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1300114718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before I get a launcher < 1300114720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1300114724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need _some_ kind of linkage < 1300114726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it's not an app < 1300114730 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The only "application" could be a MPW-built thing that just jumps into otherwise-generated code. < 1300114738 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, true. < 1300114747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: This is getting EXTRAORDINARILY like a kernel :P < 1300114749 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway even mpw tools won't work without their resource fork < 1300114754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So yeah, you open object file sand jump to them and ..." < 1300114756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*files and < 1300114758 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why the ick mac port was such a pita < 1300114764 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you know the .img format? < 1300114779 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they have resource forks that are vital for the image to be mountable < 1300114783 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need to .bin them < 1300114786 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to transport them < 1300114796 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still .img.bin is fairly reliable < 1300114796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lovely < 1300114799 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than .sit anyway < 1300114801 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shudder* < 1300114824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: btw mac os 8 in basilisk ii = so crashy < 1300114834 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I can imagine. OS 7 is crashy too < 1300114837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just want a stable emulator that lets me have a big resolution :( < 1300114840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it was emulator bugs < 1300114842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :99% sure < 1300114886 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's even some XCOFF support in binutils. (It was used in AIX by IBM too.) < 1300114895 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway I decided to port ick (instead of something else) for a good reason < 1300114899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So I should compile a gcc for XCOFF, yah? < 1300114905 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I already knew ick was portable to hell and back < 1300114906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m68k-xcoff. < 1300114920 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus figuring it wouldn't be too much work (still was quite a bit) < 1300114923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling I should jump right into gcc 2 so I know what horrors await me in the future. < 1300114939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Alsoalso, that vandac thing isn't loading now. < 1300114960 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the PPC executable format called now again < 1300114964 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember < 1300114968 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it might be borderline possible, anyway; I wouldn't expect it to *work*. And I would be rather surprised if MPW would bother linking with gcc-generated xcoff objects. < 1300114972 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You mean PEF? < 1300114997 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1300115000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: AFAICT MPW will be the hacky-libc and the kernel, and gcc will be all the apps. < 1300115003 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wasn't that for 68k? < 1300115008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, gcc 1.21 is available. < 1300115010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Circa 1988. < 1300115012 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, PPC used a different one that 68k I know < 1300115021 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, it's mostly a PPC format, though it also does m68k/PPC fat binaries. < 1300115021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ftp://ftp.mirrorservice.org/sites/sourceware.org/pub/gcc/old-releases/gcc-1/gcc-1.21.tar.bz2 < 1300115031 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes fat binaries is yet another thing < 1300115047 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but I'm 99% sure that PPC and 68k used different binary formats for "applications" < 1300115055 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in they had different names < 1300115095 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, PEF is what OS X still runs on PPC Macs, "However, PEF is still supported on PowerPC-based Macintoshes and is used by some Carbon applications ported from earlier Mac OS versions", so the older x86-only format probably is something else. < 1300115098 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't quite know what. < 1300115111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, gcc 2 is luxury < 1300115116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has a configure and everything < 1300115121 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, x86?! < 1300115132 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/x86/m68/ < 1300115134 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1300115141 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, and I don't even have elliott's no-sleep excuse here. < 1300115146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : --build=BUILD configure for building on BUILD [BUILD=HOST] < 1300115146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : --host=HOST configure for HOST [determined via config.guess] < 1300115147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Uh." < 1300115149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No target support? < 1300115168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Configuring for a x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu host. < 1300115168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invalid configuration `x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu': machine `x86_64-unknown' not recognized < 1300115168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invalid configuration `x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu': machine `x86_64-unknown' not recognized < 1300115168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unrecognized host system name x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu. < 1300115170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl, not 2.95then < 1300115173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*2.95 then < 1300115180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i doubt recent 4 versions support m68k-xcoff :) < 1300115187 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amiga's m68k executable format was "Hunk", and of course OS-X uses "Mach-O"... is it just me, or are all these formats pretty masculine? (Well, discounting ELF...) < 1300115276 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about COFF? PE? < 1300115295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coughing and peeing. < 1300115296 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The binary format support probably depends more on binutils/libbfd-or-what-was-it-called; might be possible to mix-n-match versions. < 1300115297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The manliest of acts. < 1300115302 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1300115312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: gcc 2 gave up when it saw that I was this strange "x86_64" beast. < 1300115314 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, *up to a point* < 1300115315 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But ELF is the best format :P < 1300115317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think gcc 3 will do just fine. :p < 1300115327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I draw the line at 4, no way am I going to use 4. < 1300115335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's waaaaaaaay too detached from anything I could ever run on the actual machine ever :P < 1300115340 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: At some point there were ports of GCC2 to x86_64, they're just wildly nonstandard. < 1300115348 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ELF is fairly sane for a *nix like system. < 1300115361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's kinda irrelevant because this is just a bootstrapping anyway :P < 1300115367 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much overhead for old limited machines though < 1300115372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: A really complicated bootstrapping involving multiple compilers and writing a userspace Unix kernel. < 1300115387 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, he is going to run on a MMU-less 68k system. ELF is just wasted there < 1300115390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Unless you think Microcosm could be made to work on a 68k Macintosh ... < 1300115405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, ELF would be a tremendous waste of time here :P < 1300115419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, COM++ (like .COM, but with moar space!) would do fine X-D < 1300115485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, --target=m68k-xcoff is what I want, right? < 1300115485 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHA < 1300115490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crosscompiling lingo confuses me < 1300115493 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know that COFF and PE are mutually exclusive? < 1300115500 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I would suggest a custom format unless that is too much work. Something like a header with a magic byte and some offsets then just two sections following: code, data. Header should contain a .bss style segment size as well (but that won't be in binary of course) < 1300115512 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a physiological mechanism in our bodies that disables us from coughing/sneezing, and at the same time peeing. < 1300115517 0 :Tritonio!~TrT@afrodite.ceid.upatras.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1300115520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Probably, yeah. < 1300115534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ...I would still like it if Unix programs could theoretically call the Toolbox, though :P < 1300115537 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, since you don't have MMU you want relocatable code btw. Otherwise running two copies of the same program would be painful < 1300115540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want something closer to Cygwin, not coLinux. < 1300115553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ughh, relocatable code. < 1300115558 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and uh, self modifying code would be a pain < 1300115566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's my relocatable code format. < 1300115570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the start, there's a list of memory locations. < 1300115585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whenever you load the file, you increment the values in all those memory locations of the program image by the base you loaded it at. < 1300115594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The assembler handles the hard part of figuring out what's an address or not < 1300115595 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reappears.
< 1300115595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TADAAAA < 1300115598 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, ELF is kinda useless for that, just use a.out. < 1300115599 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sounds like .dll < 1300115607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: a.out? Even that's a bit much < 1300115609 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a.out is just .COM but less stupid. < 1300115620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It has segments and relocations and tables :P < 1300115622 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hell you need some way to handle conflicting addresses. With no mmu, loading things that want to be at the same place would be a pain < 1300115632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: thus why relocatable code < 1300115639 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a.out is just .COM without wasting space for zeros. < 1300115645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Touché :P < 1300115648 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't know if you can do PC relative addressing on that thing but I doubt it < 1300115654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST GONNA ASSUME THAT --TARGET= IS THE RIGHT THING < 1300115657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Thus load-time code rewriting. < 1300115667 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so you are doing PE basically? < 1300115669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In fact... < 1300115674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You could do it without a big table of addresses. < 1300115684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If I know which opcodes have addresses in their Nth position, < 1300115688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I can just do it to the whole code segment. < 1300115708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh, I need to compile binutils, don't I < 1300115711 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, won't work without a separate .rodata segment. Otherwise you can't tell code from embedded read only code < 1300115716 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rer < 1300115717 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err* < 1300115719 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read only data* < 1300115727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So don't allow embedded read-only data! < 1300115737 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which would break stuff :P < 1300115743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only bad stuff. < 1300115766 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway you want to share read only code/data, your address space is tiny remember < 1300115773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 8 MiB is not tiny. < 1300115780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Mio < 1300115783 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't quite make out what form that xcoff supports in current binutils takes, it seems a bit AIX-specific... anyway, binutils 2.20 build with --target=m68k-coff starts all right but then dies with "This target is no longer supported in gas"; so at least that's not a good version to use. < 1300115783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, tail recursion is so hard in call-by-name < 1300115791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what about in call-by-push-value? < 1300115794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, implementing it is trivial, but writing programs that are actually tail-recursive is tricky < 1300115799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ffff < 1300115809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I haven't looked into the exact details of that, but I think it's just Underload-style < 1300115812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Nobody likes this, do they < 1300115812 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2.20 is of course extra-new.) < 1300115822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so transforms to and from call-by-name with about equal difficulty both ways < 1300115833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you have first-class functions, which you always do in computer science < 1300115858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Think 2.15 might work? May 2004. You have the inchoowishion for these things. < 1300115894 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No clue whatsoever; binutils documentation is horrible in that it doesn't really tell anything about supported formats. < 1300115915 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing I can glean from the manual is that at least 68k in general is still there. :p < 1300115963 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, doesn't change log list dropped targets? < 1300116047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, Deewiant's antislowpoke attempt also beats allegro < 1300116055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : that is impressively crazy < 1300116057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Validation! < 1300116065 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an uClinux build of m68k-coff-gcc-2.7.2.3; that's at least right processor architecture and object file format family. < 1300116085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Which involves some sort of saner-than-MPW compiler for compiling the actual programs, so... < 1300116085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : But hey, how hard can loading a.out be? < 1300116085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : this hard: |------------------O---| < 1300116092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity it doesn't beat FFPSG too, that would have been hilarious < 1300116099 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, I complained about that when I submitted it :-P < 1300116105 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088172176.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1300116120 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you can just translate coff to xcoff; it's just one character more, how hard could it be? < 1300116133 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did A/UX run under MacOS? < 1300116142 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or separately? < 1300116142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It was a separate Os that had Mac OS inside it sort of. < 1300116144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTH < 1300116150 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sounds scary < 1300116157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much, yes < 1300116168 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have to read up on it to remember, but IIRC base a.out has no relocations ... there were extensions in various BSDs that did. < 1300116176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So er what *is* this xcoff thing like? < 1300116185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says it's improved and expanded. < 1300116188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like bloat to me. < 1300116188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[XCOFF, for "eXtended COFF", is an improved and expanded version of the COFF object file format defined by IBM and used in AIX. Early versions of the PowerPC Macintosh also supported XCOFF, as did BeOS.]] < 1300116194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OK, so 68k doesn't actually use it :P < 1300116204 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, MPW does. < 1300116208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does? < 1300116213 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I've heard, anyway. < 1300116215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mind you, a.out is pretty damn tempting at this point... < 1300116219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: MPW does PPC too, though. < 1300116229 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, don't ask me. I only really looked at the PPC stuff < 1300116232 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does have segments though, yeah. < 1300116257 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but yeah I think it says XCOFF on the file icon for ppc objects < 1300116263 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but something else on the 68k ones < 1300116276 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, it *is* the "Common Object File Format", mostly platform-agnostic. < 1300116288 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.187.237 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300116305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if I step back and just get COFF and then make it relocatable... hooray, PE :-P < 1300116314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm like 90% sure a.out is simpler than PE. < 1300116322 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Where is the 68K object file format documented? < 1300116322 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the "MPW 68K Object File Format" document (download)." < 1300116332 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohyeah, it has relocations only for .o files :P < 1300116333 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Looked it up) < 1300116341 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a.out is way simpler than PE. < 1300116342 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "download" link is to the File_Formats.sit.hqx. < 1300116352 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun to unpack < 1300116358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That's easy then. < 1300116359 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe they used their own custom format for m68k objects, then. < 1300116360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Programs are .o. < 1300116370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Programs are .o with all their library functions mixed in. < 1300116381 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, if the link works (and you paste it) I could fire up sheepshaver to unpack it < 1300116382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is .o. some sort of smiley? < 1300116382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Alternatively: Programs are .o, and I give them a pointer to the shared libc space X-D < 1300116411 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The mirror worked earlier today, but now it seems to be gone. Probably due all this excitement. < 1300116422 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, mmkay < 1300116426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still disappointed that MPW used file extensions. < 1300116437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Classic Mac OS is meant to be UNCOMPROMISINGLY Maccy! < 1300116454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly, they should have renamed stdio.h to "Standard I/O" in the Headers folder. < 1300116494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just called it stdio.h in the program itself < 1300116503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, no, you should have to write it < 1300116506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include < 1300116507 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha ais < 1300116513 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Include < 1300116522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(neither C89 nor C99 requires any sensible mapping from what you write in #include lines to what the file is called, or even if it's implemented via header file at all) < 1300116524 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, you don't want a hash.. you would want something more self-explanatory < 1300116526 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as < 1300116530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And of course you can't have a header and a source file named the same in the same directory, so you end up having Headers and Sources folders in every project. < 1300116542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the filetype codes are lovingly set. < 1300116550 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Compiler, please include the library called ,,Standard I/O´´ < 1300116564 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it would compile < 1300116706 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait idea! Do this in HyperCard < 1300116712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Perfect. < 1300116756 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's funny, binutils-2.11.2 has an include/mpw/ directory with a README saying "This is a collection of include files that help imitate Posix in MPW." < 1300116798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Anything interesting in there? < 1300116800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fork() < 1300116800 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what that's for; perhaps for building binutils with MPW, then. < 1300116800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1300116839 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is there any files other than that README in there? < 1300116839 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to be mostly about reading and writing files. < 1300116853 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it does "#define LOSING_TOTALLY", accurately enough. < 1300116862 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1300116893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1300116912 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which type of 68k object files are you interested in < 1300116916 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there seem to be a lot < 1300116925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Whatever's easiest to relocate and jump to. < 1300116929 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what CFM64KLibraries is < 1300116933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also it'd be nice if it worked with PPC too. < 1300116938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But "most" object formats are architecture-independent. < 1300116945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't need fat binraies. < 1300116946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*binaries. < 1300116968 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the icon for these look like a document symbol with ones and zeros on it < 1300116985 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey CLib881.far.o < 1300116989 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds fun < 1300116990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :far out man < 1300117035 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then there is the folder PLibraries. Since the other were in CLibraries I guess PLibraries is pascal < 1300117053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So did you see any Toolbox docs on that ftp that's now down? < 1300117057 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway the PPC one says 100\nXCOFF\n011 on them < 1300117061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those will probably be invaluable. I don't even know how to spawn a process! < 1300117066 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, with the middle line in red and the first and last in blue < 1300117069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Maybe I'll just use a.out for both. < 1300117077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: This thing is becoming SUCH a kernel :P < 1300117089 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh? < 1300117110 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got sidetracked looking at this binutils-2.11.2 tarball. Back then it seems to have this whole thing for supporting building the whole set with MPW. Mostly in order to use a PPC-targeting GCC there. < 1300117118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In that you can't do anything with its files without starting and running the whole kernel. < 1300117122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the kernel is intimately tied to the formats. < 1300117141 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway I'm not sure MPW uses file extension that much. Both foo.o and foo.c.x seem style naming of XCOFF files seems to be in use < 1300117161 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also .c.o seems to be 68k object file in that case < 1300117164 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that may be why < 1300117182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./configure --target=m68k-aout --prefix=/opt/mac < 1300117184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it succeeds. < 1300117189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(binutils 2.15) < 1300117239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's even compiling! < 1300117242 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: At least you can then use the raw-binary formats (and maybe a custom linker script) to extract raw m68k code you can then wrap in whatever you like. < 1300117253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ye-es, but I could do that with the Totally Native Fork format, too. < 1300117257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to avoid MORE work here :P < 1300117263 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, where does that dump data segment? < 1300117291 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how are you going to transport a resource fork to a mac after cross compiling? < 1300117302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Exactly, I'm not. < 1300117304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to use a.out. :p < 1300117318 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the fork data format even documented? < 1300117342 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My department's web page added a "featured faculty member" to the front page. < 1300117345 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It chooses a random faculty member and shows their name and face. < 1300117345 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much fail. < 1300117367 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It dumps the sections in whichever addresses you link them. I don't know if it actually generates huge files if you link things sparsely. < 1300117392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I. -D_GNU_SOURCE -I. -I. -I../bfd -I./config -I./../include -I./.. -I./../bfd -I./../intl -I../intl -DLOCALEDIR="\"/opt/mac/share/locale\"" -W -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -g -O2 -c app.c < 1300117392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In file included from ./targ-cpu.h:1, < 1300117392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : from ./config/obj-aout.h:25, < 1300117392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : from ./obj-format.h:1, < 1300117393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : from ./config/te-generic.h:19, < 1300117395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : from targ-env.h:1, < 1300117397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : from as.h:626, < 1300117399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : from app.c:30: < 1300117401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./config/tc-m68k.h:212: error: array type has incomplete element type < 1300117403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On "make install". < 1300117405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Uh." < 1300117414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any... suggestions? < 1300117421 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fix the bug." < 1300117421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--target= is right, right? :-P < 1300117424 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hey you can click a line in the resedit disassembler and find any references to that address < 1300117427 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cool < 1300117435 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it shows with nicely coloured arrows < 1300117437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, I'm on A, I want to build a compiler that runs on A, and I want it to produce binaries for B < 1300117439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's --target=? < 1300117445 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for stuff like conditional/unconditional jumps < 1300117447 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that sounds correct. < 1300117456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mrf. < 1300117473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What was that nice version you mentioned? < 1300117476 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Time to go catch the bus homewards.) < 1300117478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With all the suppooooooort. < 1300117499 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m68k-coff-gcc-2.7.2.3 in the context of uClinux I did see. < 1300117510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was 11 or something < 1300117527 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, binutils. < 1300117528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.11.2? < 1300117537 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, grep log? < 1300117537 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.11.2, yes; but it was support for compiling binutils with MPW. < 1300117542 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he is going to a bus < 1300117545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but that sounds suitable 2001-vintage. < 1300117549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The system bus? < 1300117557 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I doubt it < 1300117558 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can try; but it seemed quite powerpc-oriented in the docs. < 1300117572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It'll be just the same, it's just tahat older = nicerrrr!!!11 < 1300117577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dont wanna build it with mpw no heavens i am not the crazies. < 1300117585 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, if gcc-2.7.2.3 compiles as m68k-coff, the same age might work for m68k-aout. < 1300117591 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now really, gone. < 1300117645 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you made me want to replay Avernum < 1300117651 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and I don't have time for that < 1300117664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: have fun!!!! < 1300117680 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I will refrain from it. That would be several days of playing. < 1300117702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :play it on Euphoma. < 1300117711 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that doesn't make sense < 1300117718 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it runs under mac os, not unix < 1300117719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure it does. < 1300117724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Euphoma can invoke native programs. < 1300117726 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also it is PPC < 1300117735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Euphoma is meant to be portable :P < 1300117744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things that work on 68k should work on PPC, I'm just going lowest-common-denominator here to start with. < 1300117806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bucomm.o: In function `make_tempname': < 1300117806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/opt/mac/src/binutils-2.11.2/binutils/bucomm.c:246: warning: the use of `mktemp' is dangerous, better use `mkstemp' or `mkdtemp' < 1300117809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NOES INSECURE BINUTILS < 1300117818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SAME ERROR < 1300117818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SAME < 1300117820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCKING < 1300117850 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Things that work on 68k should work on PPC, I'm just going lowest-common-denominator here to start with. <-- best logic ever < 1300117866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's basically true, the m68k is retarded, PPC is not :-P < 1300117879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every technique or format I choose for m68k out of simplicity will work on PPC, as wasteful or stupid as it might be. < 1300117897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extern struct relax_type md_relax_table[]; < 1300117899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INCOMPLETE ELEMTNT TYPE < 1300117900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO SHIT SHERLOCK < 1300117907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK so, this shit doesn't work with gcc 4 X-D < 1300117931 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, apple added emulation for 68k basically :P < 1300117945 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, so yes it should work on ppc macs < 1300117968 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I assumed he meant work as in be convertible, not work as in "I can run it in a VM herp durp" < 1300117977 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since unlike him, I assume people aren't idiots. < 1300118004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: An assumption that has cost you a great amount. < 1300118005 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, classic MacOS is retarded because they didn't want to break compatibility :P < 1300118010 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1300118015 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, so bad design choices stayed < 1300118022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: For instance when Bush won, that must have been quite surprising. < 1300118030 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what < 1300118040 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :talk sense < 1300118057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Since unlike him, I assume people aren't idiots. < 1300118083 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1300118095 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, let me put that differently :P < 1300118102 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I address people under the assumption that they are not idiots. < 1300118116 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In spite of whatever my personal assumptions or guesses may be, contrary or otherwise. < 1300118133 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If m68k is retarded, 8086 is some sort of ultra-retarded then. (In other words, diss on the OS/systems, not on the cpu arch.) < 1300118141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: When I do that, usually I spend half an hour backwards-and-forthing before I realise that they did something stupid, and I tell them, and they're all "why didn't you tell me". < 1300118148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's because I assumed they weren't fucking idiots < 1300118152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's for your own good. < 1300118204 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one might consider that it would be an idea to make one's assumptions have a finer gradation than "idiot" and "never says anything idiotic" < 1300118223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sure, people earn that granularity < 1300118232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called intelligent cpu cycle allocation < 1300118241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor had not yet earned such granularity in the context of minecraft :P < 1300118251 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, x86 is retarded though :P < 1300118288 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i am pointing out that it is not a good idea have those two as the default options < 1300118298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: got a better selection? < 1300118302 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal only uses ... Alpha. < 1300118323 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, har. I don't know that arch well enough to comment on retardedness of it < 1300118344 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal only uses ... MIPS? < 1300118355 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to < 1300118356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :itanium's instruction set looks pretty cool, am i weird for thinking this? < 1300118367 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VORPAL ONLY USES HARDWARE IMPLEMENTATIONS OF JAVA < 1300118369 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I'm pragmatic though. I use x86-6. < 1300118372 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly < 1300118376 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate the arch < 1300118378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6-bit x86 < 1300118379 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So, x80? < 1300118382 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1300118383 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64 * < 1300118384 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1300118405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal secretly uses a Reduceron. < 1300118407 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not that i can explain in words < 1300118413 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'd love to < 1300118415 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who needs numbers greater than 64 anyway. < 1300118431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It can express the number of bits in the more common variant of x86! < 1300118438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not, however, the original 8086 model number. < 1300118449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, it's actually 0 to 63. < 1300118449 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: PERFECT < 1300118457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT CAN'T EVEN REPRESENT THE CONCEPT OF 64 BITS < 1300118466 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I should have said "greater than or equal to" :P < 1300118478 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw you said eww about Harvard arches but there is actually quite a good reason to use them in SOC. You can use flash that you can execute directly from. No need to copy program to RAM < 1300118483 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where are our bit-addressible archs :P < 1300118492 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, saves silicon space < 1300118499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: von neumann computers are kinda like cellular automata if you squint tho < 1300118499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1300118506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Bit-addressable would rock :P < 1300118515 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not sure how that addresses my statement :P < 1300118517 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@137.125.187.237 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300118521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ca are cool < 1300118534 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes and it doesn't address what I just said < 1300118552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How about this: Everything is 1 bit, there are 256 registers, memory is bit-addressed by passing 64 values. < 1300118553 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I don't see how "von neumann computers are kinda like cellular automata if you squint tho" < 1300118603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If the base registers are a[0-256], then bytes are h[0-32]. < 1300118628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And, uhh, wait, we need more than 256 registers by far :P < 1300118636 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: hmm, not on the wikipedia page, but IIRC oerjan pretty much slam-dunked it once < 1300118641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Try 1,024 registers. < 1300118645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Of one bit each. < 1300118649 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i certainly cannot recall proving dupdog definitely non-TC < 1300118676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And while you can say "deref a b c d [...]", it's more convenient to say "deref b64.r3" or something :-P < 1300118681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COME ON, BEST ARCHITECTURE EVER < 1300118685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait. < 1300118688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just 2^64 BITS. < 1300118702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be enough for everyone < 1300118707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1300118709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you google: < 1300118713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, or is it anyone? < 1300118713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"2^64 bits in petabyes" < 1300118715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(2^64) bytes = 16 384 petabytes" < 1300118719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Showing results for 2^64 bytes in petabytes. Search instead for 2^64 bits in petabyes" < 1300118720 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1300118725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2048 petabytes < 1300118729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: haha < 1300118731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly not enough < 1300118737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's quite a dym < 1300118751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need 67-bit addresses < 1300118757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we're going bit-addressable < 1300118759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: dym? < 1300118765 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kaksikymment�nelj�tuntiaikakausit�m�nhetkinen < 1300118769 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtfbbq people :P < 1300118770 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would say my current best guess is that it isn't TC, but then my initial best guess was non-TC for every non-trivial step of my recent underload endeavour, and i was wrong every time :D < 1300118771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did-you-mean < 1300118787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yes, 2,048 registers :-P < 1300118791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, I thought the 2,3 machine was non-TC to start off with < 1300118793 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, translate.google.com actually understood that ... "Twenty-Four Hour Period As One moment" < 1300118798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which gives you slightly less than 32 full addresses in registers. < 1300118800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yep :-P < 1300118806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's the word I meticulously constructed with oklopol's help in Finnish. < 1300118814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means "day", if you're insane. < 1300118814 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that doesn't look like proper Finnish, though < 1300118827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol understood it, that's good enough for me. < 1300118828 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tämänhetkinen = current < 1300118831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1300118833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's "today" < 1300118840 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see the "as one moment" < 1300118843 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anywhere < 1300118848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close enough :P < 1300118850 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google does :P < 1300118864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it's a pretty word < 1300118868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some finn pronounce it and upload the wav < 1300118871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can only imagine it will sound amazing < 1300118880 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas, I have a vague Swedish accent < 1300118883 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I won't < 1300118888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds even funnier, do it < 1300118893 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1300118894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say bork bork bork at the end < 1300118896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's vital < 1300118904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise how can i take you seriously, you might not be a real swede. < 1300118916 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that isn't even Swedish in any sense < 1300118916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw for that one, is there a definite proof that it isn't TC with finite initialization? < 1300118928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Your mom isn't Swedish in any sense. < 1300118930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She's un-Swedish. < 1300118933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, there isn't < 1300118936 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really no < 1300118938 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1300118949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a proof that it's non-TC unless you have infinitely many white cells, but that isn't particularly useful < 1300118963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Quick, add !dupdog so that oerjan can start proving. < 1300118978 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, isn't that just saying that it needs infinite memory to be TC? < 1300118980 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.187.237 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300118992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no < 1300118996 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh okay < 1300118999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"infinitely many cells" is obviously needed < 1300119004 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1300119006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nothing in TCness implies that an infinite subset of them have to be white < 1300119013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t even < 1300119014 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Integral a) => a -> Bool < 1300119019 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is the set of possible colours? < 1300119031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :white, yellow, orange in most of the Wolfram drawings of the machine < 1300119034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I just call them 0,1,2 < 1300119052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't think anyone's tried to draw the machine but the Wolfram people and me) < 1300119058 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm < 1300119072 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://miekko.infa.fi/kaksikymment.ogg < 1300119086 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops, I should've added a bork bork bork there :| < 1300119087 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so is it a CA or TM what? I think I need to read up on dupdog < 1300119090 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what* < 1300119096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: 403 < 1300119098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you're miekko? < 1300119099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, dupdog? < 1300119104 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes < 1300119108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1300119109 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, who? < 1300119113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: another guy in here < 1300119114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of those joke esolangs that's not quite obviously stupid < 1300119115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just assumed it was like < 1300119116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a finn influx < 1300119118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finnflux < 1300119125 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QUICK, someone upload it to the wiki as a pronunciation key! < 1300119135 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that one, right < 1300119148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: YES < 1300119149 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : what, dupdog? <-- I thought you were talking about dupdog above < 1300119154 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or was that just elliott? < 1300119157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: MAKE IT NON-403 SO QUICKLY < 1300119164 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in that case which language *were* you talking about < 1300119171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we can't have tha fnacy pronunciation icon right? < 1300119172 0 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@137.125.187.237 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300119174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the fancy < 1300119175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wikipedia has < 1300119177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cuz of license < 1300119178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the conversation was about more than one language < 1300119180 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear connection: What the hell? < 1300119188 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1300119191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dupdog was one mentioned, but so were Xigxag and the 2,3 machine < 1300119197 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1300119197 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1300119208 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how is it even related to our wiki (that sound) < 1300119214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, minimized Underload, although that doesn't fit the question < 1300119236 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's random - usually, stuff I scp there gets the right permissions immediately < 1300119245 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300119252 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently this time stuff didn't work out like that :| < 1300119274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's the pronunciation of what's on the homepage < 1300119300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: Permission to upload that to the wiki as public domain? :-P < 1300119305 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1300119307 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, where? < 1300119307 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh now i wonder if you could remove something more from underload if you allowed an infinite program :D < 1300119314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: lern2wiki < 1300119327 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't know what to search for < 1300119331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :home page < 1300119341 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah there < 1300119341 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1300119350 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure < 1300119351 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go ahead < 1300119366 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :altho' as I said, I have a bit of an accent, altho' that accent is sort of recursive < 1300119380 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my Swedish is basically Swedish as influenced 500 years by Finnish < 1300119386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: presumably : < 1300119389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it, somehow < 1300119402 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300119410 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Finnish is influenced by germanic anyway, so we end up with ... some kind of converging shit < 1300119416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Upload warning < 1300119416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :".ogg" is not a recommended image file format. < 1300119423 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1300119432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "homepage"? < 1300119434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Warning"; I don't see any way to IGNORE that warning :P < 1300119437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ojgoidfjgiodfogd haven't slept < 1300119447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Can FANCY ADMINS LIKE YOU upload oggs? < 1300119449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there's normally an "ignore warnings" checkbox < 1300119451 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah it would seem that you could then _never_ get information out of a stack < 1300119455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the upload form < 1300119456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh indeed < 1300119471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: doesn't stop it < 1300119475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is a one-way information transfer enough? < 1300119479 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, allowed upload types are defined in the MW config, so I'm guessing no. < 1300119483 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1300119485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, if even with the override it doesn't work, I can't override it either < 1300119492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it must be being done at the PHP level < 1300119496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just makes a fake page for the pronunciation
< 1300119498 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pester graue; he's responded recently. < 1300119500 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1300119501 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-8-173.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300119535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I'd be surprised if graue didn't respond to emails < 1300119547 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300119583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: Thank you for your valuable service to the community. < 1300119609 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're welcome < 1300119623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we can all agree that the world of esolangs was advanced today. < 1300119652 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would've been advanced even more if I had an esoteric finnish dialect. < 1300119660 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like, uh, ingrian or somesuch < 1300119668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ok, we have an esoteric word to make up for it < 1300119677 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I can pull that off, though, as they all are knee-deep in Russians < 1300119680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now someone make an esolang based on it so nobody can complain < 1300119682 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and therefore sound, unsurprisingly, like Russians? < 1300119686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably kaksikymmentäneljätuntiaikakausitämänhetkinen should be the cat program < 1300119782 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300119866 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1300119925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: I have decoded your hostile language. < 1300119926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/FZcJ < 1300119964 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee without :, (A)(^B) is equivalent to (AB) < 1300119987 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this some esolang based on Finnish? < 1300119993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Yes. < 1300120011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Based on randomly decomposing fake Finnish words, that is :P < 1300120044 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((A1)...(An)B) is equivalent to (A1)...(An)(B) < 1300120063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually tuntiai can decompose into tunti (null), ai (equals) < 1300120101 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APNIC down 0.01: 4k to India, 64k to China, 256 to Hong Kong. Slow day. < 1300120135 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A)^ is of course equivalent to A < 1300120153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: aren't slow days a /good/ thing in this context? < 1300120155 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you've dropped an "m" < 1300120159 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :between < 1300120161 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ausitä < 1300120163 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and än < 1300120175 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think this allows you to recude everything down to an at most 1 level deep expression < 1300120179 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reduce < 1300120185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: män is now end of block :P < 1300120211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: http://sprunge.us/KdMF < 1300120242 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm or wait you can have (^(^(^...))) < 1300120245 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1300120285 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: Do any of those decomposed elements have meaning in Finnish? :P < 1300120306 0 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-68-80.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1300120361 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tunti = hour < 1300120379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTHING ELSE? < 1300120382 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-nen = affix used to form adjectives < 1300120397 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ai = exclamation a bit like "oh" < 1300120514 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ki = colloquial variation on -kin, a suffix meaning "even, too, also" < 1300120519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BORING < 1300120521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1300120706 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, every single one of those probably means something in japanese too >:) < 1300120753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: whas good n64 emulator cant typ < 1300120757 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you cut Finnish up randomly it often looks very japanese < 1300120769 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you just let it be like it is, it's distinct enough < 1300120775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc pikhq said that with simple substutition the bug word became nonsense japanese < 1300120786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: i bet letter-based markov bots are fun in finnish < 1300120832 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never tried one, but .. uh, afaict markov-bots can't maintain vowel harmony? < 1300120839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: who cares < 1300120840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agglutinative! < 1300120848 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but, vowel harmony is v. important for Finnish < 1300120853 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks more estonian if you drop it < 1300120855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what she said :/ < 1300120861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok estonian then :P < 1300120865 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh, estonian is pretty < 1300120871 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: whas good n64 emulator cant typ <-- for linux mupen64plus is your best bet < 1300120877 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heard there were better ones for windows < 1300120878 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and estonian chicks, my god, some of them are crazily beautiful) < 1300120884 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway how goes the toolchain? < 1300120885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: assume i have infinitely powerful hardware < 1300120894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :toolchain i'm holding off on until i decide on object format/versions < 1300120901 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suure < 1300120902 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: why couldn't they maintain vowel harmony, it's a simple finite state thing... < 1300120906 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't know any cycle accurate one if that is what you mean < 1300120912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: heck no, that's excessive < 1300120927 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might need to adjust them a little for it < 1300120928 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for linux mupen64plus is the only one I know of < 1300120930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah looks like mupen is the only one < 1300120939 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the "Plus" bit is important < 1300120949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: any emulation pitfalls? < 1300120954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm gonna try out sm64 finally :P < 1300120992 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sm64? < 1300120997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup- mar- < 1300120999 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1300121029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's the only game that mupen emulates correctly pretty much no matter what the settings are < 1300121038 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and yes the emulation is not perfect. No noticeable issues in mario64 though < 1300121039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's incredibly picky on every other game for the console < 1300121043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: unsurprising < 1300121048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i heard something about a beam of light < 1300121050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :becoming like < 1300121050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a line < 1300121052 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, zelda64 oot works fairly well too < 1300121053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the logs < 1300121063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, why don't you just play the DS version? it's still on sale < 1300121065 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm possibly. < 1300121066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we _do_ need a cycle-accurate nintendo 64 emulator :) < 1300121074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we can't trust people to write a decent higher-level one < 1300121091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I find the DS uncomfortably small to play for long periods of time i.e. any longer game < 1300121097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and prefer originals to remakes < 1300121110 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you can/could get most games to work. But the last mupen64plus version lacks a GUI. They rewrote the large bits but never ported the GUI over < 1300121116 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1300121117 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need to fiddle with command line args < 1300121122 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be easy for mario64 < 1300121125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds pleasant < 1300121128 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for most other games *shudder* < 1300121128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I find computers uncomfortably large < 1300121141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's about the display for me < 1300121151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm fine with a tiny gamepad, but I can't play on a small screen < 1300121154 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for mario64 it is probably just ./mupen64plus mario.v64 (or whatever extension it is) < 1300121164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, once I rip the ROM from my cartridge < 1300121170 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD < 1300121171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore no more needs to be said < 1300121174 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: i guess the problem is that you could have arbitrary long chains without a vowel of specific harmony, so you cannot use a finite length chain ... although i think fizzie looked at markov chains with adjustable length < 1300121230 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for fungot's babbling) < 1300121230 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://www.youtube.com/ fnord but rather violent... nothing for sensitive people < 1300121243 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't actually know too much about markov chains, I should probably read up < 1300121264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: they're trivial < 1300121281 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ok you need to wrap up a letter-based, vowel harmony preserving finnish style for fungot ;D < 1300121282 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: time for lesson 2? what about godel is also gödel is undecidable. of course. but that view won't help anything. shivers wrote it years ago; it's there. < 1300121286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: for babble generation: you have a map (last N units) => {set of (following unit, probability)} < 1300121297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you start with a START token, pick a random next one weighted by probability < 1300121303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeat taking the last N from your output < 1300121305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until you reach END < 1300121307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy < 1300121373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: units can be words or vowels or whatever ofc < 1300121451 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, to preserve specific harmony, one could put the current harmony (not known, front, back) among those last N units. < 1300121476 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I thought they were defined as last units => set of following units (altho' that's equivalent, really) < 1300121487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kälastijokenäpakaäileimen < 1300121497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: yep, but the probability is of course important < 1300121501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to generate even vaguely coherent things < 1300121522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can basically just insert by frequency and then turn that into weighting to make things simpelr from an implementation POV of course < 1300121522 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, well, I left that sort of implicit there < 1300121527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1300121531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's how they are defined then < 1300121536 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erg, I typoed < 1300121544 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant "last unit => set of following units" < 1300121549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1300121552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: that's just an order-1 markov chain < 1300121555 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, k < 1300121559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: which...works, but won't produce anything coherent at all < 1300121567 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's not entirely equivalent < 1300121571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: "what comes after 'a'" "oh, occasionally 'x'" "axoiajdioasjoisdfksngdfbslkjerbg" < 1300121596 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the name of a small mountain in georgian. < 1300121614 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should go for something in salishan languages instead < 1300121616 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: not _entirely_ accurate) < 1300121632 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could do things like qsqvkdmllqklitsk < 1300121646 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, the more units are considered, the larger the tables (and more difficult to estimate the probabilties). < 1300121648 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i accidentally almost typed clit in there < 1300121659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: you just need a large corpus < 1300121662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gutenberg that shit up < 1300121673 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a clitical error < 1300121695 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :salishan languages actually challenge the idea that syllables are a linguistic universal :) < 1300121751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: That's a load of bullshdifogrjknydnmdfhjkgslvfkdghksjdkdjgjksletapw;rlmvo*£$&@*(!@)~{P_@)(~~ < 1300121761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"They are characterised by agglutinativity and astonishing consonant clusters — for instance the Nuxálk word xłp̓x̣ʷłtłpłłskʷc̓ (IPA: [xɬpʼχʷɬtʰɬpʰɬːskʷʰt͡sʼ]) meaning ‘he had had [in his possession] a bunchberry plant’ has thirteen obstruent consonants in a row with no vowels." < 1300121761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1300121765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the sexiest word i've ever seen. < 1300121773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has no pronunciation link though, i want a pronunciation link < 1300121821 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, the chemical symbol for tungsten comes from "wolfram". < 1300121837 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone tried to upload a pronunciation, but he choked on his tongue < 1300121844 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS CAN PROBABLY BE PLAYED WITH IN SOME HILARIOUS WAY < 1300121871 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: it's called wolfram in norwegian < 1300121876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forbid funny < 1300121889 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a new kind of element < 1300122031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, the Mario 64 title screen is ... disturbing. < 1300122073 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1300122108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Does mupen64 no longer support configuring KEYS? :P < 1300122136 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, through a config file iirc... < 1300122142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It has a GUI here... < 1300122143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v1.6 < 1300122145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1300122145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.5 < 1300122179 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh then you can find it under settings. Look for the configuration of which input plugin to use < 1300122187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the settings don't pop up anything < 1300122187 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I assume you use sdl? < 1300122194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdl input. yes. the only available one. < 1300122195 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for input < 1300122203 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then click config it or such < 1300122207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffs < 1300122207 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that doesn't work I don't know < 1300122208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it pops < 1300122209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up nothing < 1300122447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know of any compilers that are truly single-pass? < 1300122475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, never ever go back to anything they've previously covered for any reason? < 1300122480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd have to be not AST-based < 1300122480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep < 1300122483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1300122488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine some stupid BF compilers work like that < 1300122490 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't original pascal single-pass < 1300122499 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok maybe not that strictly... < 1300122503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1300122506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can lax it SLIGHTLY :) < 1300122507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, infix ops are ok < 1300122512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was thinking about that, but not sure if it matched the restriction < 1300122564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how mupen64plus doesn't trust you with its build system < 1300122569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just gives you an optionless shell script to use insetad. < 1300122570 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if remembering the position of a previous element counts as going back to it, then even bf looks hard... < 1300122571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*instead. < 1300122579 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god, there's more tau stuff on the front page of Reddit. < 1300122583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: tau? < 1300122587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, as in "OMG PI"? < 1300122589 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2pi. < 1300122591 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1300122598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you can compile it into while { and } < 1300122601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ais523: Let's say: You can keep track of state as you see it, but there must be NO backtracking in the input stream. < 1300122604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without tracking the nesting at all yourself < 1300122609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you must never go back an arbitrary distance? < 1300122611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a single rule? < 1300122617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in the input stream? then it's easy, you can just load the file into memory < 1300122621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and work from that < 1300122629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope, because that involves going back arbitrarily < 1300122633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the saved data < 1300122641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you're using that to subvert the restriction) < 1300122652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., in (a + b), + only has to look one back < 1300122655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to find the previous expr < 1300122664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being able to say (... a b c + d) would not be OK < 1300122670 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ok so it's LR(k) parsing-wise, at least < 1300122688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, maybe i should restrict it more :) < 1300122693 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not a very big restriction < 1300122800 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: one thing i thought of is that you can only write a bounded amount of computer result for a bounded amount of input, while always going forward in both input and compiled stream < 1300122818 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*compiler result < 1300122865 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means of course that compiling a [ cannot look at the corresponding ]... < 1300122872 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for bf) < 1300122904 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it becomes very dependent on the branching power of the language you are compiling _into_ < 1300122952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: assume you can define labels, at least < 1300123007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so, uh... nintendo 64 without a gamepad or joystick < 1300123008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEST IDEA < 1300123022 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah then you could do it by assigning the label name for the ] when you hit the [ < 1300123070 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you also need the label for [ of course) < 1300123096 0 :cheater-!~cheater@e181143187.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300123100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(then the question becomes whether using the label for [ counts as going backwards or not) < 1300123167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300123170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, because you can use a stack < 1300123173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you only have to look back one < 1300123182 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: so, uh... nintendo 64 without a gamepad or joystick <-- I used keyboard since an aircraft joystick doesn't work well with games assuming a gamepad < 1300123194 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the range of movement is so very different < 1300123196 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm you could make [ push its label at runtime instead, so you didn't have to let ] look at the [ label while compiling < 1300123201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really need to buy a solid PS2 controller and use it forever. < 1300123223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you could also compile all langs into source + interp that way and bypass all restrictions... < 1300123263 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300123315 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1300123463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: this castle is a bit dramatic. < 1300123471 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm? < 1300123477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the start. < 1300123484 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, eh, maybe < 1300123536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Start = "key(13)" < 1300123542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sure hope you can just say "A" and "B" and the like here. < 1300123567 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not that I know of < 1300123590 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think they are sdl keycodes anyway < 1300123821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: THIS GAME DOES NOT HAVE ALL THE NICE MOVING STUFF GALAXY HAS < 1300123834 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, er? < 1300123835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I miss crouch-backflipping, catching on to a wall, kicking off, then spinning. < 1300123847 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you can do a wall jump if that is what you mean < 1300123851 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess not < 1300123853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT WHAT ABOUT THER EST < 1300123854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*THE REST < 1300123875 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you can do long jumps by crouching (Z iirc?) and then jumpng < 1300123883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you do a backflip? < 1300123887 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes pretty sure < 1300123891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you follow a backflip with a wall jump? < 1300123895 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1300123930 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-12249172 < 1300123932 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What could go wrong? < 1300123943 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway changes in later games. What else would you expect < 1300123950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Changes for the better :P < 1300123964 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, next you will demand these kind of things in SMB! < 1300123972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smb was boring < 1300123978 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit yes < 1300123994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how i feel about this game anthropomorphising bombs as happy, carefree creatures < 1300124000 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, UNLESS THE PAEDOS USE IT TO TRACK OUR CHILDREN!!!!!! < 1300124149 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION recalls once upon a time he was in a role-playing game with a happy, carefree missile
< 1300124211 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, mate < 1300124258 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(we sold it to the local mafia. it seemed like the least dangerous option.) < 1300124298 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm actually the missile wasn't the main thing we sold, just something that happened to be stored on the premises. < 1300124443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: L(0.5) < 1300124451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok hm so what's LR(1) for this one-pass thing < 1300124454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what? < 1300124460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*LR(0.5) < 1300124461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a joke :P < 1300124465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you can look at the last production generated? < 1300124470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that be LR(1)? < 1300124471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no more? < 1300124475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd mean you could not do nested loops < 1300124485 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LR(1) uses a stack and a finite state < 1300124493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right < 1300124496 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you talking about. < 1300124501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: things < 1300124591 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g231049137.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300124603 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which reminds me somehow of that right bracket language < 1300124636 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i don't think going to the next _non-matched_ bracket can do nesting either) < 1300124652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is LR(!) actually sufficient for bf here? < 1300124665 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's ! ? < 1300124668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1300124668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1300124673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what about LL(1) ;-P < 1300124689 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf is certainly LR(1) in the usual sense, and i think LL(1) too < 1300124703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right, but is that actually relevant to this compilery thing < 1300124706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it has to keep its state like that too < 1300124708 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might even be LR(0) if you look at it the right way < 1300124720 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300124732 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hm < 1300124775 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well i think the labels can be put on the same stack if that's what you mean < 1300124790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm just figuring with my "can only access a bounded amount back" < 1300124797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how small it can get while still being able to compile Pascal-- ;D < 1300124821 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well pascal more or less requires a dictionary, doesn't it < 1300124853 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no requirement to only use variables in stack order of definition :D < 1300124875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that would be an awesome requirement :D < 1300124882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly even the best < 1300124910 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what would lambda calculus look like with that < 1300124922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :confusing < 1300124928 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to minimize a bit) < 1300124932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1300124936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pascal --> lambda calculus < 1300124938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an obvious simplification < 1300124951 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they _do_ share the lexical scoping < 1300125051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL THERE IS THAT < 1300125057 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inside a \x -> ..., all accesses to x must come before all accesses to outer variables < 1300125106 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so say \x y -> y (\z -> z y) x is legal < 1300125180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it turns out it's equivalent to the superstrict lambda calculus, i deduced this because i'm a genius < 1300125187 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1300125188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't have any reasoning, just told my past self (i.e. my present self) it was so < 1300125193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess i figure it out in a few years, stay tuned < 1300125241 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have i = \x -> x and k = \x y -> x both legal < 1300125263 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is an idiot on BBC news claiming that the Fukushima plant has basically gone Chernobyl and it's being covered up. < 1300125287 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s = \x y z -> x z (y z) is not, at least in that form < 1300125293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\x y z -> x z (y z) < 1300125301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\x y z -> z y (y x) < 1300125306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's OK < 1300125309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\x y z -> z y (y x) < 1300125313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or can you not mention it twice? < 1300125322 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice is ok < 1300125364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: \x y z -> (\a c b d -> a b (c d)) x y z z < 1300125366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, needs reversing < 1300125368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's trivial < 1300125390 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it < 1300125462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes. < 1300125464 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um are you saying that gives s < 1300125478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm... hypothesising that that gives s, if you make it queue order instead < 1300125490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: \x y z -> (\a b c d -> a c (b d)) x y z z < 1300125493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearer form :P < 1300125495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except < 1300125496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1300125497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1300125498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im dum < 1300125499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore < 1300125515 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what about that reversing, hm < 1300125523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well its broken < 1300125526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: \x y z -> (\a c b d -> a b (c d)) x y z z < 1300125527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note "c b" < 1300125532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm sure you just need flip < 1300125539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\f x y. f y x < 1300125539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1300125544 0 :Wamanuz3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300125545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\f x y. y x f < 1300125561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\f x y. (\y' x' f'. f' x' y') y x f < 1300125565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so that's apply :D < 1300125574 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1300125583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack order this time < 1300125605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1300125608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too hard to think ;_; < 1300125615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do my thinks for me oerjan < 1300125684 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a little adjustment of that gives you compose < 1300125701 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see functional programming. < 1300125704 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if I want. < 1300125707 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : \f x y. (\y' x' f'. f' (x' y')) y x f < 1300125723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: this isn't functional programming. < 1300125726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is pathological functional programming. < 1300125733 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*dysfunctional < 1300125751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was stolen for something on the wiki already i think :) < 1300125763 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1300125781 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> showHex 666 "" < 1300125782 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "29a" < 1300125832 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1300125839 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/0x29A < 1300125849 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does that second argument do? < 1300125864 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> showHex 666 "foo" < 1300125865 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "29afoo" < 1300125869 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1300125878 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@i showHex < 1300125879 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: id ignore index instances instances-importing irc-connect . ? @ v < 1300125883 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::i showHex < 1300125891 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type showHex < 1300125893 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Integral a) => a -> String -> String < 1300125904 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1300125922 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, it's that appendy string thing, isn't it? < 1300125959 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, still playing or did you get bored? < 1300125968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got distracted :) < 1300125977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also really fucking tired < 1300125985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1300125987 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1300125987 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1300125988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ojfg < 1300125993 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sleep well < 1300126047 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus, actually reading about the Chernobyl disaster is depressing. < 1300126093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: um < 1300126095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who said im sleeping lol < 1300126097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats for fags? < 1300126182 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1300126235 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Every three years or so I wikiread the topic with a non-deterministic depth-limited BFS for a day or three. (Not sure why.) < 1300126248 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Chernobyl? < 1300126257 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1300126271 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last time I did that I did find this photo, though: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Peacekeeper-missile-testing.jpg < 1300126318 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how can you do a BFS on a graph? < 1300126327 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome picture, BtW. < 1300126345 0 :atrapado!~rodr@77.27.50.133 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300126350 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Breadth-first search; how *couldn't* you do that on a graph? < 1300126413 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, technically by not performing it < 1300126482 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. But doing it with a browser is borderline trivial. Or at least with a config that makes "open in new tab" open at the end of the tab bar. < 1300126493 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1300126551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a yway cherlaer chernobyl deserved it because of perl harbor < 1300126582 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally. < 1300126592 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088172176.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1300126603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glad you agree < 1300126615 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah how dared those russians push perl on us < 1300126634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inour oaeubrs no less!k1'1 < 1300126650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hows a wootake < 1300126671 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hallucinating yet? < 1300126677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no :( < 1300126695 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes < 1300126699 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sufficiently deprived, then < 1300126699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no. < 1300126702 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just depraved < 1300126703 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this IRC thing is all in your mind < 1300126707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: think i should oo for 72 hrs?????? < 1300126729 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooing for 72 hours is _not_ recommended < 1300126734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1300126738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1300126741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1300126741 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll ruin your voice cords < 1300126747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1300126750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1300126753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1300126756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1300126757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1300126763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1300126765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1300126768 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no. < 1300126769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1300126773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1300126774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooooooo < 1300126778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1300126779 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :klo < 1300126779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooooooooooooooo < 1300126781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooooooooooooooooooo < 1300126782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1300126784 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklo < 1300126784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1300126786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1300126789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1300126791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1300126794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1300126795 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone tell Sgeo so he can fret. < 1300126797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1300126799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1300126799 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kickban in... < 1300126800 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | what now? < 1300126801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1300126802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooooooo < 1300126803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooo < 1300126805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1300126807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1300126808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 < 1300126809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1300126811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1300126813 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 < 1300126813 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did optbot do? < 1300126813 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: å < 1300126817 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1300126839 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot is elliott's latest stupid project. < 1300126840 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: I rarely, if ever, read it. < 1300126848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: IT'S FROM 2008 < 1300126853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus chrsit < 1300126855 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so? < 1300126856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been here longer than you < 1300126861 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep I seen it before < 1300126861 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still a terrible idea. < 1300126864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "latest" is objectively wrong? < 1300126866 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I forgot what it did < 1300126889 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so what if it was here in '08? I would have opposed it then as well. < 1300126916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but that's assuming i actually care that you oppose. i've already discussed it with oerjan and am implementing the fix we agreed on soon < 1300126920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like when i'm not 90% asleep. < 1300126928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you whine about everything. :p < 1300126929 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the topic changer < 1300126930 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1300126938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *and fungot inspiration < 1300126939 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: can you put your call-,with-* hack for scheme-mode? and if so, what does syntax-case buy you over define-macro? < 1300126946 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh really, mkay < 1300126948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, fungot babble inspiration < 1300126949 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you run emacs in konsole < 1300126956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, fizzie was all "i am inadequate ;_; must compensate" < 1300126961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he brought out all the n-grams. < 1300126973 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what did you do? just random letters? < 1300126975 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot < 1300126975 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it seems so < 1300126979 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1300126982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it does exactly what it did then < 1300126987 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't remember! < 1300126994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you'll get it in a few pings < 1300126997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly < 1300126999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes it very obvious sometimes < 1300127003 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot, random? < 1300127003 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh, i seem to remember now < 1300127006 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot, random? < 1300127006 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 2 ihope: ps < 1300127009 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep pretty < 1300127011 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what's the agreed fix? < 1300127016 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/mode +t | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ < 1300127016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: rtflogs < 1300127016 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think it quotes log < 1300127020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: rtflogs < 1300127023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: rtfquitwhining < 1300127025 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe not full lines, don't know yet < 1300127025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: correct < 1300127030 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, shut up, OK? < 1300127039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: mm, no < 1300127045 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RTFLogs is not a response to all requests for information. < 1300127047 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know it's off, that's still yukks :P < 1300127048 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: 12 hour timeout after last change by anyone < 1300127057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: it is when you're being irritating about it. < 1300127062 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to sift through the logs to find everything. < 1300127071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then don't be irritating/obnoxious. < 1300127073 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah, OK. I'm fine with that. < 1300127074 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/mode +t | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | + Gregor has changed the topic to: /mode +t | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ < 1300127080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :* Vorpal has changed the topic to: /mode +t | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | + Gregor has changed the topic to: /mode +t | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ < 1300127087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a fixed-point topic. < 1300127087 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1300127099 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot! < 1300127099 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yep, we will easily hit limit < 1300127099 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | F < 1300127101 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, OK, expressing my discontent for your bot is being irritating and obnoxious. < 1300127105 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good to know. < 1300127113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: nope, expressing it in the way you did (an obnoxious way) is < 1300127116 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | * Gregor has changed the topic to: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | * Gregor has changed the topic to: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | * Gregor has changed the topic to: logs: http://tunes < 1300127120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :* Gregor has changed the topic to: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | * Gregor has changed the topic to: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | * Gregor has changed the topic to: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | * Gregor has chang < 1300127121 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, what do you expect... < 1300127130 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, you can shut up too. < 1300127137 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did we end up with a different length :P < 1300127139 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, come on :P < 1300127143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Vorpal: plz realise: "I don't like optbot" != "optbot is elliott's latest stupid project and it's retarded and stupid and dumb" < 1300127143 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's like making printf return an integer so you can do printf("Hello, world!\n") + printf("Bye!\n"); < 1300127153 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, I agreed with you about elliott's treatment of you. < 1300127155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latter does not get spoonfed log lines < 1300127162 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I'm neutral on optbot < 1300127162 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and JS? < 1300127174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal's constant attempts to agree with everyone who's taking a negative view of me remain unhampered. < 1300127175 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah it isn't your latest stupid one < 1300127178 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true < 1300127185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enjoy ignore < 1300127198 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however I do feel both you and Phantom__Hoover should calm down < 1300127215 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, you are this near to an ignore from me as well. < 1300127248 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, I can't see why. I just told you both to calm down... < 1300127402 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about the surest way to make people ignore you, i should think < 1300127416 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm good point < 1300127428 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no one likes feeling they are at fault < 1300127465 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah faults are dangerous, look at japan < 1300127487 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, may I borrow your flyswatter for a moment? < 1300127494 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1300127498 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ducks
< 1300127504 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait I forgot the shape. what length is it? < 1300127509 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5+3 < 1300127519 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, - and #? o < 1300127523 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or* = ? < 1300127546 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and wat < 1300127556 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats oerjan for that pun-----###
< 1300127565 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here you can have it back < 1300127570 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1300127835 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the command for makin an hg repo directory match the server it was cloned from? < 1300127843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1300127846 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm -rf / < 1300127847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean pulling new changes < 1300127857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hg help # rtfm < 1300127892 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rtfm, rm -rf, so close < 1300127968 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too many r's not enough t's < 1300128005 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :λf.(λx.f (x x)) (λx.f (x x)), bitches! | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ < 1300128028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that an xkcd quote < 1300128050 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR it's from that tattoo, but then again it might not be. < 1300128061 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux Libertine has unmatched []; discuss. < 1300128097 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, it's only in XChat. < 1300128784 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1300128939 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300129084 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I certainly hope you weren't referring to the topic ... < 1300129110 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION whistles innocently
< 1300129125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how nobody noticed Deewiant even said anything < 1300129127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a ninja. < 1300129185 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I noticed, but I ignored him because I was otherwise engaged. < 1300129202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: You're getting married? Congratulations < 1300129204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Congratulations! < 1300129216 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, guess what the ring will be made of? < 1300129229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Wait, wait, let me guess. Gold. < 1300129236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or wait < 1300129237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LEAD?? < 1300129241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIRT???? < 1300129245 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wolfram, obviously. < 1300129247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OBSIDIAN???? < 1300129259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it would have a drastic ego containment field collapse < 1300129260 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be a hipster glasses smiley. < 1300129263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*undergo a < 1300129272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: I propose :kanye: < 1300129280 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, OK. < 1300129283 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except metal. < 1300129289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1300129293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming you mean shutter shades. < 1300129303 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mercury under glass. < 1300129303 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best ring ever. < 1300129307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise :iiam: < 1300129407 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i like how nobody noticed Deewiant even said anything <-- um am i being trolled < 1300129410 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean a metal hipster because that is what I am. < 1300129413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: nope < 1300129423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: THERE IS NO SUCH THING < 1300129428 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because afaict Deewiant hasn't spoken recently < 1300129434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: look closer < 1300129438 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, IRIDIUM IS WAY TOO MAINSTREAM < 1300129442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1300129443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1300129444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actual metal < 1300129445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as in < 1300129446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\m/ < 1300129448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :metal metal < 1300129450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1300129459 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a pune or play on words. < 1300129470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: FOUND IT YET < 1300129482 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: unless you mean that optbot! which i don't see why should need noticing... < 1300129483 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sp0 will not work on my comp < 1300129488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it was a speak! < 1300129516 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well in that case i did notice. < 1300129904 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's more dangerous than glass to put mercury in in a ring ... < 1300129904 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But equally transparent) < 1300129926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Air < 1300129936 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Good luck making that maintain the shape of a ring. < 1300129943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You never said it had to last long < 1300129943 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ice. < 1300129952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It'll last about as long as Phantom__Hoover's marriage < 1300130019 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's more dangerous than glass to put mercury in in a ring BUT IS ALSO TRANSPARENT, SOLID AND STABLE AT ROOM TEMPERATURE < 1300130029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the marriage is doomed anyway if they don't have the right chemistry < 1300130070 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300130094 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh, all these restrictions < 1300130173 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe instead I'll go with semitransparent and use a mesh in which the pores are slightly smaller than mercury's natural drop size :P < 1300130188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.moral-politics.com/Temp/Pol_06449af7e2ec4ac5af505245273c9a61.png DO I WIN < 1300130197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure getting into one of the corners is how you win < 1300130474 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: It'll last about as long as Phantom__Hoover's marriage < 1300130491 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, since I plan to go through with the osmium ring plan with a wealthy heiress. < 1300130502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: It's not my fault you're planning to marry an extremely unstable isotope. < 1300130516 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1300130551 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wtf does that even mean < 1300130572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What < 1300130574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The graph thing? < 1300130579 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1300130590 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm likin' my mesh idea, but I think the drop size for mercury is quite small :P < 1300130593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Result of taking the silly test at http://www.moral-politics.com/. < 1300130606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently I fall somewhere between social democratism and activism. < 1300130612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, more in "activism". < 1300130618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently activism is A FORM OF MILD SOCIALISM. < 1300130641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bullshit test and some of the answers have really biased wording < 1300130641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1300130649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Of the 666,816 respondents (11,708 on Facebook): < 1300130649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4% are close to you. < 1300130649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :81% are more conservative. < 1300130649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1% are more liberal. < 1300130649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1% are more socialist. < 1300130650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7% are more authoritarian.]] < 1300130652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRETTY SURE THAT MEANS I WIN < 1300130664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(7% are more authoritarian? wtf i never said anything authoritarian...) < 1300130674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION redoes the political compass test while he's at it.
< 1300130723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gleh, forgot how badly-worded some of the questions on this are, too. < 1300130726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"People are ultimately divided more by class than by nationality." < 1300130736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea whether this is saying "In practice, ..." or "Inherently, ...". < 1300130809 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the implication that noöne thinks women are better than men. < 1300130812 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SEXISM IS ONE-WAY < 1300130847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I hate about these tests is the questions that are basically trying to funnel you into one of two categories and are really obvious about it < 1300130856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. "Controlling inflation is more important than controlling unemployment." < 1300130904 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders which political system would be best for an online sandbox economy thing á la EVE.
< 1300130926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see a game economy ENTIRELY based around the fact that you can play the game with enough money. < 1300130938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like you can with EVE, except the servers being the Fort Knox. < 1300130959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Those with the ability to pay should have the right to higher standards of medical care ." ;; you can't just ask me this and not also ask me if I support public healthcare, ffs < 1300130975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either you want to outlaw Bupa, or you want to make everyone die on the streets! < 1300130983 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is... bleurghl. < 1300130998 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think two of those corners are accessible. < 1300131008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the political compass, btw. < 1300131009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the moral thing. < 1300131019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amusingly I think I register as more conservative/authoritarian than I really am on these because of bad questions... < 1300131039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously though < 1300131040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"People are ultimately divided more by class than by nationality." < 1300131043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW DO I EVEN DISAGREE/AGREE TO THAT < 1300131048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS IT WHAT I WANT TO BE TRUE, IS IT WHAT I THINK IS TRUE IN PRACTICE < 1300131049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFFFF < 1300131105 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@17.101.89.204 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300131105 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1300131105 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1300131273 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300131294 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone's dissing on elliott again, i'll jump the bandwagon: elliott: optbot's nick has a typo < 1300131295 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: and well there are lots of process supervision stuff built in. Oh and hot code reloading. Oh and support for distributed nodes and what not. Not features of your typical "scripting" language. < 1300131299 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1300131305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: nah Phantom__Hoover was totally a bro < 1300131313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal was just totally a Vorpal < 1300131318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :live goes on, broly. < 1300131323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but er waht's the typo < 1300131329 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be otpbot < 1300131331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it stands for oerjan's punnes terribales < 1300131337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's french you uncultured fuck < 1300131345 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lol excuse me :( < 1300131348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's even a fucking ' thing on top of one of them < 1300131348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh < 1300131415 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :today i said "jeau deux le shambray de la seminar" to a french guy, and he didn't get me < 1300131415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: WHAT WAS YOUR SCORE < 1300131421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: uts jk < 1300131425 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though chambre is totally french < 1300131445 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I gave up because my attention span is negative. < 1300131453 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"jeau deux" may have been wrong though < 1300131453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: IT'S LIKE FIVE QUESTIONS < 1300131529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A significant advantage of a one-party state is that it avoids all the arguments that delay progress in a democratic political system." < 1300131534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I THINK THATS THE best question ever < 1300131539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just wanna see osmeone say "strong algryy" < 1300131562 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Osmeone, Osmium's sister. < 1300131608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-5.38&soc=-7.64 < 1300131611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS < 1300131617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still not far left enough < 1300131643 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this the sane kind of libertarian or the nutjob kind? < 1300131655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: http://www.politicalcompass.org/images/axeswithnames.gif < 1300131660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.politicalcompass.org/images/bothaxes.gif < 1300131665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those should explain. The first one moreso. < 1300131672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how Thatcher is more extreme than Hitler. < 1300131677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda. < 1300131701 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Hitler said he was a socialist. < 1300131726 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that test is too hard < 1300131744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the moral or political < 1300131755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the political, try the moral one it's supra-eesy http://www.moral-politics.com/ < 1300131758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and crap < 1300131829 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We should reduce the causes of crime" vs. "we should eliminate the causes of crime". < 1300131842 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHOULD WE ELIMINATE CRIME OR REDUCE IT < 1300131880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reduce it definitely! < 1300131884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like crime. < 1300131885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gives me the warm fuzzies. < 1300131905 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like crime in moderation just as much as the next man. < 1300131911 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently i'm a socialist < 1300131918 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting, since i'm not < 1300131940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: give pic link < 1300131950 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1300131955 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-151-167.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300132046 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know how, but -3 on moral order, 1.5 on moral rules < 1300132048 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever that means < 1300132069 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case i'm not sure i agree with all my answers, i might answer differently at different times < 1300132069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: right lcick the graph thing < 1300132070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the right < 1300132073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :choose copy pic location < 1300132074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paste in here < 1300132131 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work that way < 1300132164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: give us the ilnk to the page with it on then < 1300132215 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i'll send you the POST data through an irc message < 1300132226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha oklopol just got a really weakling version of my results < 1300132227 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i already lost it < 1300132228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a fag fag < 1300132257 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Still using my handwriting as a system font? < 1300132260 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my political stance is mostly that finland is perfect, let's just keep it this way < 1300132276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: no :( but i regret not doing so < 1300132283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: including the military service thing? :D < 1300132293 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well some disagreements, tru < 1300132305 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what's your handwriting like? < 1300132311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: amazing < 1300132313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best,even < 1300132316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*best, even < 1300132317 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get why a country would need an army < 1300132323 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Want pics. < 1300132340 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/gregor_handwriting.ttf < 1300132349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: set as system font < 1300132351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set as default web page font < 1300132352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set as irc font < 1300132355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set as window title font < 1300132356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gawp in amazing < 1300132376 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, wow, that actually makes my handwriting look controlled. < 1300132392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: use as system < 1300132393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the colons < 1300132397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the best part < 1300132412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: do you want me to make my own handwriting font for you to use in return, your computer will look like a three year old wrote it < 1300132417 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(When I write long passages the words kind of merge into one big mass of slanty lines. < 1300132423 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*) < 1300132429 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And my font DOESN'T look like a three-year-old wrote it? < 1300132450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you have clearly never seen MY handwriting. < 1300132454 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone want MY handwriting? < 1300132459 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1300132462 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimmegimme < 1300132480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Recently it evolved from "Cool, the lowercase letters take up THE ENTIRE LINE of regular lined paper" to "now I just write the upwards slanting lines, and literally just swiggle the rest" < 1300132480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus dots for the is < 1300132491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with that and the first/last letters i'm sure everyone can interpret my words < 1300132517 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300132530 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how do you fontify your handwriting? < 1300132545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: same way Gregor did it < 1300132548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...with murder < 1300132558 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, how did you fontify your handwriting? < 1300132562 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :murder is illegal < 1300132579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: indeed. < 1300132585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such is the sadness < 1300132587 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, wow, Finland is weird. < 1300132587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such is the tragedy < 1300132592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1300132596 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yourfonts.com < 1300132598 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: ? army? < 1300132610 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, murder is *illegal*. < 1300132618 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that thing < 1300132622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You realise that not doing it by hand == -19872938791237123 nerd points < 1300132626 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we like teh life see < 1300132634 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's frowned on over here, but I can't imagine anyone *legislating* it. < 1300132642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'd need to do all the OpenType stuff to get my insane ligatures (EVERYTHING IS SWIGGLES) < 1300132644 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You realize that making a font ... of handwriting ... by hand makes no sense at all? < 1300132662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: WHAT DO YOU THINK WE DID BEFORE YOURFONTS < 1300132668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I mean as in manually vectorising etc. :P < 1300132677 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make fonts that were not an accurate conversion of handwriting. < 1300132697 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, making a font of my handwriting would lose the melting. < 1300132708 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always print :P < 1300132725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Not with OpenType! < 1300132731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll just take twenty years to get every ligature down properly. < 1300132746 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The best part is when I scribble stuff out /with nearly the exact same density and angle as my normal writing/.) < 1300132777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have i mentioned that < 1300132777 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also goes halfway down the next line, which doesn't stop me writing on it. < 1300132780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes i don't even bother with spaces < 1300132783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you basically get like < 1300132786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2*number of words letters < 1300132793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the sentence < 1300132795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :joined by a bunch of swiggles < 1300132799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite beautiful < 1300132844 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you guys retarded? < 1300132861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes, why? < 1300132868 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no reason i guess < 1300132877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the purpose of handwriting isn't to be readable or useful imo < 1300132891 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: YOU LIVE IN A HOLE < 1300132898 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i live in a hole? < 1300132914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A hole at bedrock! Factually correct. < 1300132921 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idgi < 1300132930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well you do in Minecraft, dunno what Gregor's on about < 1300132942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your walls aren't flat btw, did someone mine some ore from them or did you decide that flat walls are boring < 1300132947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slight small holes < 1300132947 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to write algebra on one line unless it was literally impossible to make my pen write the symbols. < 1300132970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: biros have that much more leeway in stuffing squiggles into a line < 1300133030 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :algebra <3 < 1300133041 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is one of their advantages < 1300133045 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another is not leaking. < 1300133059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: dunno, leaking can be useful for blotting off incorrect reasoning < 1300133065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as the rest of the proof looks ok < 1300133078 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1300133082 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sure, but then I try to clean it with my fingers. < 1300133108 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone: Put the Y combinator in various languages in the topic, each suffixed with ", bitches!" < 1300133122 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I end up looking like the Hulk if he'd been an early-20th century X-ray operator. < 1300133138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Which? < 1300133140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strict? Lazy? < 1300133145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assume the language can do both) < 1300133173 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it really matters for something this stupid :P < 1300133180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :λf.(λx.f (x x)) (λx.f (x x)), bitches! | (\f -> let x = f x in x), bitches! | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ < 1300133193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not actually the y combinator. < 1300133197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a fixed-point combinator. < 1300133202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the y combinator itself requires some newtype wrapping. < 1300133203 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knowing the y combinator is a sign of inteligence, Gregor. < 1300133222 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, I guess we could tolerate any fixed-point combinator :P < 1300133226 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ... fascinating? < 1300133245 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" I don't think it really matters for something this stupid :P" < 1300133258 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I meant something as stupid as putting it in the topic. < 1300133270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget how to do it in underload, or if i ever got it done < 1300133314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\f. (\x. f (\y. x x y)) (\x. f (\y. x x y)) < 1300133317 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you know if people of inferior intelligecy come here then they'll understand right away that we're better than them so how's that stupid we don't have to listen to their whining. < 1300133340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1300133354 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: erm, isn't i t":^"? < 1300133356 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it < 1300133356 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case ... < 1300133361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no, that's mockingbird < 1300133364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f -> f(f) < 1300133375 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right y < 1300133390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see how to do it but < 1300133394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too lazy so i'll use the abstraction elimination rules < 1300133404 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :λalchemy.(λmoonspirit.alchemy (moonspirit moonspirit)) (λastralplane.alchemy (astralplane astralplane)) < 1300133412 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, dammit, you beat me to it. < 1300133420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1300133424 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ah, that way they REALLY understand our greatness < 1300133428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1300133433 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because we're speaking their language, but better < 1300133509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(((~:^~^)~a~*~^)~a~*:^) < 1300133511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that might be it < 1300133520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ()(((~:^~^)~a~*~^)~a~*:^)^ < 1300133521 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...out of time! < 1300133522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ()(((~:^~^)~a~*~^)~a~*:^)^S < 1300133522 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...out of time! < 1300133527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (!())(((~:^~^)~a~*~^)~a~*:^)^S < 1300133528 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...out of time! < 1300133529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1300133531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE NOT < 1300133569 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get what y should even do in ul < 1300133581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's applicative y < 1300133592 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1300133597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f -> (\x -> f (\y -> x x y)) (\x -> f (\y -> x x y)) < 1300133598 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: t = t -> t1 -> t2 < 1300133598 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Probable cause: `x' is applied to too many arguments < 1300133598 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the expression: x x y < 1300133601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fff < 1300133614 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1300133615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's ∀a.∀b.((a→b)→(a→b))→(a→b). < 1300133617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks wikipedia. < 1300133629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let rec fix f x = f (fix f) x (* note the extra x *) < 1300133629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1300133629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let factabs fact = function (* factabs now has extra level of lambda abstraction *) < 1300133629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 -> 1 < 1300133629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | x -> x * fact (x-1) < 1300133630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1300133632 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do i do if apt-get runs out of disk in the middle of an install? would it break my packages to just kill it? < 1300133632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let _ = (fix factabs) 5 (* evaluates to "120" *) < 1300133634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--jewpedia < 1300133645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: you can probably fit it with dpkg --reconfigure. < 1300133646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it won't break it in an unfixable way < 1300133650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah < 1300133651 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kk < 1300133656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hi ais523 < 1300133663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can leave the packages temporarily broken until dependencies and configurations are fixed, though < 1300133664 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: What they said :P < 1300133666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can't seem to work out applicative-order Y in underload < 1300133671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought i had it but i made a mistaek < 1300133679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\f. (\x. f (\y. x x y)) (\x. f (\y. x x y)) ;; this 'un < 1300133679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once had to shut my computer off in the middle of a distro upgrade < 1300133690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actually recovered from that, although I did have to use the command prompt to do so < 1300133695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the GUI wasn't working < 1300133703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"command prompt" < 1300133706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WINDOWS USER DETECTED < 1300133715 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHUN < 1300133722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I probably used Windows for longer than I've used Linux < 1300133729 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHUUUUUUUUUUUUUN < 1300133731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: DISOWN'D < 1300133742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember that I'm older than you < 1300133747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux hadn't really caught on when I was a child < 1300133754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah well, when i'm older than you < 1300133760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm gonna learn all the linuxes. < 1300133766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (()~a~*)^S < 1300133766 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...out of stack! < 1300133771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (hamper)(()~a~*)^S < 1300133771 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hamper) < 1300133773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (hamper)((S)~a~*)^S < 1300133773 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hamper)S < 1300133775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (hamper)((S)~a~*)^^ < 1300133775 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hamper < 1300133780 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, ais523 has used windows? lol what a noob < 1300133797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (( { \x. f (\y. x x y) } )~a~*) < 1300133820 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how do i unlock the dpkg directory so i can run it again? < 1300133840 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.181.62 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300133852 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://kawagner.blogspot.com/2007/02/why-monads-are-evil.html < 1300133857 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this person some kind of moron? < 1300133865 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It can hurt readability: A concrete monad is choosen by the return type of a function. For example a simple 'x <- get' can switch the rest of the do-block into 'state-monad'-land." < 1300133866 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: there's a lockfile somewhere, I'm not sure where offhand though < 1300133871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I've even used DOS < 1300133875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from before Windows caught on < 1300133878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (hello!)(((~:^~^)~a~*~^)~a~*)^S < 1300133878 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hello!)(~:^~^)~a~*~^ < 1300133885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (hello!)(((~:^~^)~a~*~^)~a~*)^^S < 1300133885 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...out of stack! < 1300133889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (())(((~:^~^)~a~*~^)~a~*)^S < 1300133889 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(())(~:^~^)~a~*~^ < 1300133892 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I understand correctly, that shouldn't be properly typed in any monad..ic thingy that isn't State < 1300133893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (())(((~:^~^)~a~*~^)~a~*)^^S < 1300133894 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...out of stack! < 1300133896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (())(((~:^~^)~a~*~^)~a~*)S < 1300133896 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((~:^~^)~a~*~^)~a~* < 1300133899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((a))(((~:^~^)~a~*~^)~a~*)S < 1300133900 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((~:^~^)~a~*~^)~a~* < 1300133903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((abc))(((~:^~^)~a~*~^)~a~*)S < 1300133904 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((~:^~^)~a~*~^)~a~* < 1300133907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1300133910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't seem right at all! < 1300133912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1300133915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((abc))(((~:^~^)~a~*~^)~a~*)^S < 1300133916 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((abc))(~:^~^)~a~*~^ < 1300133918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((abc))(((~:^~^)~a~*~^)~a~*)^^S < 1300133918 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...out of stack! < 1300133926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(((~:^~^)~a~*~^)~a~*:^) < 1300133939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1300133941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly what i came up with :/ < 1300133976 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i found the file. how to unlock it? (no process is using it) < 1300133987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it empty? if so, just delete it < 1300134030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ()(!())(((~:^~^)~a~*~^)~a~*:^)^ < 1300134030 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...out of time! < 1300134032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1300134037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!underload ()(!())(((~:^~^)~a~*~^)~a~*:^)^S < 1300134046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: egobot < 1300134050 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I nose. < 1300134064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just wait 'til relief is done! < 1300134068 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I honestly have no friggin' clue why it's had such trouble remaining connected recently. < 1300134079 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waitwtf, it IS connected. < 1300134091 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just not in #esoteric. < 1300134108 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1300134117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not egobot < 1300134127 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ORLYTHANKS < 1300134151 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's close to being egobot < 1300134159 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't they both multibot? < 1300134162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ghc --version < 1300134185 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1300134206 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, wtf, once again, EgoBot is connected but didn't join. < 1300134217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MULTIBOT SO STABLE < 1300134221 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should try to learn category theory < 1300134233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you should < 1300134234 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :category theory <3 < 1300134238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not fully, but enough to understand the basics < 1300134253 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where should I start? Is Wikipedia readable on this subject? < 1300134258 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mention category theory anywhere, and all the computer scientists in the audience immediately start gushing) < 1300134265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah even my stupid friend can do category theory ;D < 1300134269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not sure; I haven't looked at the Wikipedia article < 1300134276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: unless they're rabid haskell haters < 1300134285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the connection with Haskell I never really get at all < 1300134288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably they don't count as computer scientists :> < 1300134295 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1300134297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't connect Haskell concepts to the mathematical concepts they're meant to be based on < 1300134309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monoid is easy :P < 1300134312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!underload ()(!())(((~:^~^)~a~*~^)~a~*:^)^S < 1300134313 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL what a noob. i can't either, even though oerjan explained it once < 1300134315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nor can most other computer scientists, by the look of it < 1300134336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it just comes from expecting something deeper than it is. < 1300134345 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF TRAC IS ONCE AGAIN PEGGED AT 99% CPU < 1300134345 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY TRAC WHY < 1300134348 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trac: it is a pile of garbage. < 1300134353 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you get the connection? < 1300134358 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yeah even my stupid friend can do category theory ;D < 1300134360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: in a vague ay < 1300134361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way < 1300134365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: MediaWiki does that too < 1300134366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: close enough anyway ;D < 1300134370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it's because of you < 1300134371 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I subject it to the ultimate stupid test? < 1300134373 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the definition of a category? < 1300134373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it knows it's on your server < 1300134377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so disappointed. < 1300134379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: wut < 1300134385 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, APT Guy. < 1300134398 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asking elliott i mean < 1300134400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ffff a category is a bunch of objects and morphisms and fff dude < 1300134403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been like 30 hours since i slept < 1300134403 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1300134406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up < 1300134410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ob < 1300134412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's definitely ob in there < 1300134416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ob everywhere in that bitch < 1300134428 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's, like, drawings. < 1300134431 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With arrows. < 1300134432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1300134435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drawings with arrows. < 1300134437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: satisfied < 1300134437 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's just a multi graph with a composition operator < 1300134439 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is kinda big < 1300134443 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*multigraph < 1300134463 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, i.e. drawings with arrows. < 1300134508 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a nice description, but i'm not sure it's a great definition < 1300134533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: a category is somethign wit ha lot of pages in it < 1300134552 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1300134613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: SO SLOW < 1300134650 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's always slow on first load. < 1300134651 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo hi < 1300134653 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1300134660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: egobot is still going. < 1300134667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly it is likely inflooping < 1300134668 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's always slow on first load. < 1300134727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: What day is it kaksikymmentäneljätuntiaikakausitämänhetkinen? < 1300134752 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32 o'clock in the aftertea. < 1300134785 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300134836 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dd if=/dev/zero of=bigfile bs=1M count=10 conv=fdatasync # omfg this has been running for over a minute *sobs* < 1300134856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :D < 1300134863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So prgmr, quite shitty eh < 1300134873 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently they've decided to be, yes. < 1300134921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : This is kind of an open-ended question to whoever wants to respond, I'm trying to figure out the best way to manage this situation I'm in: < 1300134921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : explosives < 1300134926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: contact them and get SO MANY REFUNDS < 1300134929 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, is this some kind of joke, it's still running. < 1300134929 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'M TRYING TO WRITE A 10M FILE OF ZEROS < 1300134929 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10485760 bytes (10 MB) copied, 171.363 s, 61.2 kB/s < 1300134938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1300134946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's slower than my internet connection at the worst of times. < 1300134952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By far. < 1300134967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They've migrated to Cloud(TM)-based storage! < 1300134971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the storage is in Zimbabwe now. < 1300134977 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Somalia < 1300134993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: no, they just have all the libraries < 1300134998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're loaded every single time a process is spawned < 1300135001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by downloading from .so < 1300135153 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1300135192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it's the Future < 1300135198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: gnu are bidding on libc.so themselves < 1300135203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: as are microsoft < 1300135266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I wonder if libc.so actually exists < 1300135271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION whoises
< 1300135286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This TLD has no whois server." < 1300135290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :short and to the point < 1300135297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: .so is new < 1300135300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor is in the auction for it < 1300135307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's a closed auction, he signed up for libc.so < 1300135309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but so did other people < 1300135311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's gone to auction < 1300135319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? < 1300135322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1300135329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: .so = Somalia, they've only recently had something that could call itself enough of a government to get their tld activated :) < 1300135352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guessed = Somalia < 1300135388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from this we can conclude that the soviet union still exists < 1300135495 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thirteen people. < 1300135507 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Taking donations to help me buy it! :P < 1300135517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of auction is it? < 1300135520 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The benefit of donating is a snazzy @libc.so email address! < 1300135533 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Closed, anonymous, proxy bidding allowed. < 1300135544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know each other's bids? < 1300135544 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-secret < 1300135557 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"non-secret" < 1300135579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said that before you posted your reply, or at least before it arrived at my client < 1300135587 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm lagged all to hell X_X < 1300135616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What's the current bid, or has it not started yet :P < 1300135621 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mind you, the auction hasn't opened yet, I'm trying to raise capital before it does. < 1300135630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, holy crap, this thing is gonna make somalia so much money :D < 1300135653 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Don't say that, I want it to sell for an amount I can buy it for X-P < 1300135660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the domain shit in general < 1300135660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sale of .tv gave a fortune to each Tuvaluan citizen < 1300135667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you realise that one corporate bidder means you're screwed? < 1300135671 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yup. < 1300135687 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: My only prayer there is the fact that it really has no corporate value. < 1300135693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I believe .tk made a lot of money/infrastructure for Tokelau too, but that was .tk advertising, so maybe exaggerating < 1300135702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: We live in Web 2.0. < 1300135709 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And? It still has no corporate value. < 1300135711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never even heard of Tokelau < 1300135715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It has marketing value. < 1300135721 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, it doesn't. < 1300135734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they're the island that decided that they really didn't need a cctld, so it's ok if a company gave them away for free < 1300135734 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, are we referring to libc.so or .so in general? :P < 1300135737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: libc.so < 1300135743 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it has zero marketing value. < 1300135743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It has marketing value IN THE MINDS OF IDIOTIC IDIOTS. < 1300135751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: This is where you should assume the worst in people. < 1300135771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, hope those idiotic idiots don't find it until later < 1300135776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can sell it to them for a fortune < 1300135787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would yo uever sell that! < 1300135788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has nerd cred < 1300135793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tells everyone < 1300135794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a fortune, obviously < 1300135796 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I get it, I wouldn't sell it for less than six digits :P < 1300135799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like dynamic libraries, because i'm lame < 1300135803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can buy it back again after their idiotic company collapses < 1300135809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'll give you $99,999 < 1300135827 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: TOO FEW DIGITS and also I didn't say I'd sell it for ANY six-digit value. < 1300135839 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I don't own it. < 1300135839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Too few digits on purpose :P < 1300135846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not believe and do not believe that you value it more than $99,999 < 1300135847 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway, I honestly think I have a so-so chance of getting it at this point. < 1300135858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you know, optimism is good for you. < 1300135862 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One could even say.... .so.so. < 1300135868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even hopeless, naive optimisim.jf < 1300135870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kickban Phantom__Hoover / < 1300135884 0 :marian_30!~Florin@82.77.116.105 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300135898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it depends on if everyone else is also there just on the offchance < 1300135921 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, seriously, it's not naive at all. We're talking about a domain name that has nerd cred but absolutely no commercial value, with thirteen bidders in a closed auction, and with only people who happened to notice its availability in a brief window. < 1300135921 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marian_30, just to make sure, we aren't neopagans. < 1300135932 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other words, we're talking about the intersection of domain name nerds and Unix nerds. < 1300135940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marian_30: We're NEONEOpagans. < 1300135951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: that's a strange statement to make to someone who hasn't even spoken yet < 1300135952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I bet SCO are bidding < 1300135957 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Dude, you're still at neoneo? I've evolved to neoneoneo. < 1300135965 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But WHY? < 1300135968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm at neo^\omega pagans of the iag neo om < 1300135968 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, after last time... < 1300135969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ek < 1300135973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think someone bid $8 or some similarly small amount for all SCO's assets < 1300135974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: YOU RUIN OUR FUNSTERS < 1300135995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:41:29 I agree that there's no chance of it taking over the world < 1300135995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:41:46 I think there's a marginal chance it'll lead to Wolfram being booted from the internet, but for unrelated reasons < 1300135996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:41:53 ais523: huh? < 1300135996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:42:11 you'll see later on, if they still have the feature I'm thinking of < 1300136000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what was that feature? (context: W|A) < 1300136016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, portscanning arbitrary sites that were entered into its = box < 1300136024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's amazing < 1300136039 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly, think about it, what benefit does the domain name libc.so confer to e.g. SCO? Or even a legitimate company? Nobody's going to type libc.so into their web browser and go "WOW I SHOULD BUY THIS UNIX LOL" < 1300136055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: MARKETING IS NOT BASED ON THE PRINCIPELS OF LOGIC AND SEN < 1300136056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :se < 1300136059 0 :marian_30!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1300136067 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLEARLY A NEOPAGAN < 1300136075 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But it IS based on money, and nobody's going to sink money into a completely valueless proposition! < 1300136084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Apart from IDIOTS. < 1300136099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And who are the kind of people who would bid on an auction for libc.so? < 1300136099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDIOTS < 1300136110 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The intersection of domain name nerds and Unix nerds. < 1300136119 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is to say, nerds. < 1300136121 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is to say, people who either have little or a LOT of money :P < 1300136134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: YOU KEEP IGNORING THE _IDIOTS_ < 1300136139 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you're in the former category. < 1300136148 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Idiots don't know what libc.so is! < 1300136152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Gregor has a little amount of money :P < 1300136169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: Idiots don't know what libc.so is! < 1300136172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU WANNA BET < 1300136179 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Case in point: APT Guy. < 1300136200 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, whotf is "APT Guy" < 1300136235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: He is known only as APT GUY < 1300136243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE MEANING OF HIS CRYPTIC NAME IS UNKNOWN < 1300136256 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He has a name but it's trivially Googleable and he goes to the same school as me, so... < 1300136289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gahh, I wish I could have a machine where the whole Linux audio/video stack was NOT horribly out-of-sync. < 1300136303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does PulseAudio even MANAGE to be so TERRIBLE? < 1300136472 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, APT Guy is a guy at my school who is basically a script kiddie who convinced the Ubuntu guys to let him have fairly high-level APT access. < 1300136479 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God only knows how. < 1300136506 0 :azaq23!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1300136522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't know wtf pat access is < 1300136527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or pta access < 1300136529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooaejoiwroijroj a,p,tpo < 1300136536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :````````1234567 < 1300136537 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1300136544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really hate keyboards < 1300136553 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think it means he can apply other people's patches. < 1300136563 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also his own patches very occasionally. < 1300136566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BACKDOOR TIEM < 1300136627 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES < 1300136632 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1300136635 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except someone might notice. < 1300136657 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's also a Pythonista, but I wasn't able to use him to save cpressey. < 1300136730 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sobs quietly
< 1300136738 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover < 1300136791 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know the Society of Creative Anachronism? I know of one of their games. < 1300136833 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do tell < 1300136886 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A game was made for them, called Ludus Equitum. It can be played with a normal chess set and some dice. < 1300136894 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk, about cpressey or...? < 1300136909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: unignoe zzo38 hesz fun < 1300136919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zs howsa now replacded 's < 1300136921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sz < 1300136923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thatis < 1300136926 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1300136931 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or about yesserpc? < 1300136932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatsz the prblem with that i ask!! < 1300136961 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the SoCA game zzo knew of < 1300136965 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ludus equitum < 1300137014 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1300137029 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: You roll the dice 2d6 and the number that comes up tells you what kind of pieces you are allowed to move. You can make up to 2 moves in one turn. Win by capturing opponent's king. < 1300137101 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1300137112 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc chess originally had some rule like that? < 1300137117 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in european varieties? < 1300137130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1300137135 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R=King, Q=Queen, L=Laurel, P=Pelican, E=Knight, M=Fighter, A=Squire. (Use the rook for P, bishop for L, pawn for M.) In this notation, FEN setup is "1eerqlp1/1mmmmmm1/8/8/8/8/1MMMMMM1/1PLQREE1". < 1300137151 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: Some old chess game did have dice. This is a bit different though. < 1300137177 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: so it has fairy chess pieces too? < 1300137215 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300137223 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be interesting to make something more go-like with dice < 1300137269 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, like, only one kind of piece, but such that the wrong number of stones n the board can turn out fatal if you have certain structures < 1300137277 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the wrong number comes up on the dice < 1300137285 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with another number can turn out v. good < 1300137325 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be hard to manage, I think, but probably interesting if it could be managed < 1300137352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps go where you roll a d6, your new stone has to be next to (the result - 1) other stones, color doesn't matter < 1300137376 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1300137377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1300137382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just copied somethign to the licpboard < 1300137387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbabbed over to my browser < 1300137390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost fell asleep half way < 1300137392 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1300137394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :came backt o my senses < 1300137396 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_li0vnjLRLg1qh25w2o1_500.jpg < 1300137398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thought me going to google something was a dream < 1300137400 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most awesome cat ever/ < 1300137403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am extremely tired... < 1300137432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: for what reason are you awake? < 1300137439 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Q and L move one space diagonal, P one space orthogonal, M like the pawn in chess but no double step, R like king in chess (but is permitted to be in check), A the same. M promotes only to A. The numbers on dice you can move: 1=RQ 2=RQ 3=PL 4=M 5=EA 6=EA. < 1300137440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inability to sleep? being busy? < 1300137443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perversity? < 1300137452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: according to stephen wolfram, it is 9 am in 12 hours < 1300137457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as such, I will be going to bed within the hour < 1300137471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the anticipation that I will sleep for approximately that time, and wake up at a sane time < 1300137477 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523,Zwaarddijk: Yes that is an idea about Go with dice. < 1300137480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12's a bit low, I think < 1300137487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my record's 23 < 1300137496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 14 is my record, and only once < 1300137502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 is what I get in cases of extreme sleep deprivation < 1300137513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 23 was pretty extreme for me < 1300137514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11 in moderate sleep deprivation < 1300137515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 normally < 1300137520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14 was horrible < 1300137521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I felt dead < 1300137546 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after two weeks of extremely dutiful living, I slept 23 hours one day < 1300137550 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 17 hours the next < 1300137590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by "dutiful" in this context? < 1300137603 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fulfilling duties to various associations < 1300137613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1300137621 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300137635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that was a little lost-in-translation without the clarification < 1300137637 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :viz. the association of comp.sci students at åbo akademi, and the student orchestra < 1300137650 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it was not meant to be losslessly translated < 1300137673 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was in fact an expression that wouldn't've worked in Swedish. point was: doing what you're supposed to isn't always smart < 1300137708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally I try to reduce the number of obligations I have in such cases < 1300137727 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, I am not cut out to be a leader. < 1300137741 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i was essentially the chairman of the orchestra < 1300137744 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I didn't delegate anything < 1300137747 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did everything myself < 1300137758 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written a ZRF implementation of this SCA game. http://www.chessvariants.org/membergraphics/MZludusequitum/LudusEquitum.zrf (Zillions is not particularly good software, but way better than nothing.) < 1300137758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1300137797 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300137804 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for our big annual concerto < 1300137840 0 :cheater-!~cheater@g228063052.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300137843 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What music do you play in that orchestra? < 1300137862 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so essentially, my days during two weeks consisted of: waking up, getting a cup of coffee, running errands, getting cups of coffee in between errands, eating something, going to comp.sci.association ball-week events, coming home in the middle of the night, ... < 1300137880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1300137902 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :big band jazz, some funk, some rockabilly, some modern stuff - the annual concerto usually has some theme like "80s music" or "latin american stuff" or "sweden" or "secret agents" < 1300137965 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I play the jazz guitar - but I've not played there for about a year. also, my musical interests have veered into microtonality a bit too far to be compatible with any orchestra < 1300137970 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300137977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that most instruments can't play it < 1300137988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the ones that can, need people so insanely skilled to play them that it's not worth it? < 1300137989 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: according to stephen wolfram, it is 9 am in 12 hours < 1300137996 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You go to school, yes? < 1300138012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: really need to sleep < 1300138018 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit. < 1300138047 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nah, trombones, trumpets and fretless string instruments do microtones trivially < 1300138062 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saxophones I think are a bit less trivial, but still doable without too much effort < 1300138067 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have also worked with some non-12TET music, although I did them by computer. < 1300138082 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so have I, but I got bored with doing them by computer < 1300138086 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I defretted a guitar :) < 1300138105 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I do sometimes still use a midi keyboard for it, but it feels weird not to have the octave-pattern repeat) < 1300138107 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: turku? < 1300138112 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I think flutes can do it as well. < 1300138114 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: yes. < 1300138121 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is an idea too. Then you can readd frets to the notes that you want it to play instead? < 1300138122 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, oklopol :yes < 1300138134 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also retune the strings for the new notes. < 1300138149 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well, I could tie some thing there, sure, but I jsut leave it fretless and play by ear < 1300138238 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: me 2, that's why < 1300138245 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, cool < 1300138252 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :university of turku? < 1300138255 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would df show the used and available 1k blocks not adding up to the total size? < 1300138265 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've deleted a bunch of packages, but available blocks is still 0 < 1300138270 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used is going down < 1300138272 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, university of turku < 1300138276 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i practically live there < 1300138296 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :älä vaan sano että sä oot asteriski < 1300138336 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ict:n kellarissahan asuu niitä jonkun verran < 1300138349 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olin asteriski, mutta k��nnyin matemaatikoksi < 1300138352 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorrry for the moon-language, people) < 1300138361 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, onneks olkoon! < 1300138369 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :en harrasta opiskelijael�m��, asun ty�huoneessani < 1300138412 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just niin. tutkija vai onko sulla jopa opettajan virka? < 1300138434 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"*jopa* opettajan virka" :D < 1300138437 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tutkija olen < 1300138446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fear I've just witnessed a pun I don't get at all < 1300138457 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ja opiskelija, en ole viel� maisteri. < 1300138463 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohho. < 1300138477 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ite kirjoitan vasta nyt kandin < 1300138490 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(vaikk olen opiskellut vuodelta 2003) < 1300138498 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no not really, he just asked me if i'm a researcher, or even a teacher. which i disagreed with since being a teacher is a lesser job. < 1300138515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the amusing thing is, most channels would just go "this is an English-speaking channel" in that situation; here, a) nobody cares, and b) nobody could truthfully make that statement anyway) < 1300138516 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :teachers have better contracts, though < 1300138517 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: itse aloitin 2008 < 1300138532 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gradun sain valmiiksi viime viikolla < 1300138535 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ensimmäiset kaksi vuotta opiskelin toki venäjää < 1300138538 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1300138551 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ja sen jälkeen oon ollut pari vuotta nokian tehtaan lattialla < 1300138555 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1300138556 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1300138584 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mistä kirjoitit? < 1300138594 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-33.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300138598 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kandini on P=?NPstä < 1300138625 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gradu on kuvakielist�. < 1300138627 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tällä hetkellä näyttää siitä että yritän selittää (ja ymmärtää) miksi relativisointi ei auta < 1300138645 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ai? wtf, kenelle teet? < 1300138663 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mikä handledare on suomeksi < 1300138669 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :advisor < 1300138683 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :��. no mik�s se nyt on... < 1300138684 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1300138690 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on uh Ion Petre, ÅA:n tietojenkäsittelytieteen proffa < 1300138710 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ai �A:lla on tietojenk�sittelytiedett� :D < 1300138715 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :onpas. < 1300138721 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nyt se on nimeltään datavetenskap < 1300138733 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ennen vanhaan - sillon kun mä aloitin se oli "informationsbehandling2 < 1300138736 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*" < 1300138765 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ohjaaja" < 1300138775 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :se on termi < 1300138778 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1300138793 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tulee melkein englantia puhuttua enemm�n liven�kin < 1300138798 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kun t�iss� kaikki ulkomaalaisia < 1300138818 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, paitsi muut opiskelijat, mutta en k�y kauheasti luennoilla < 1300138821 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :miten matematiikassa saa kuvakielistä gradua aikaan? < 1300138825 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, translate! < 1300138835 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :siten ett� kuvakielet ovat formaalien kielten alalaji < 1300138847 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :odotas hetki < 1300138853 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meill� tehd��n matematiikan laitoksella aika paljon teoreettista cs:�� < 1300138861 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mite "kuvakieli" tarkkaan on englanniksi? < 1300138863 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mitä < 1300138864 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :picture language < 1300138888 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedian artikkeli on aika <3 < 1300138907 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, en tiennytkään että semmosta käsitettä on olemassakaan < 1300138911 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ei kukaan tied� < 1300138929 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seh�n siin� hienoa onkin kun avoimet ongelmat on ihan vitun helppoja ratkoa kun niit� on 5 ihmist� yritt�nyt < 1300138938 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What links here kertoo kuinka moni tietää < 1300138956 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELP I AM TRAPPED IN A FINNPOCALYPSE < 1300138969 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kannattaa my�s huomata wp:n artikkelin referenssilista, hofl ja sitten joku aivan vitun random sivu :D < 1300138985 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: munkin pitäisi löytää semmosta tieteen ala < 1300139004 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*alaa < 1300139024 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: no eik�s se P?=NP ole juuri sellainen < 1300139028 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ket��n kiinnosta vittuakaan < 1300139033 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.D < 1300139057 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is pretty absurd < 1300139061 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is. < 1300139067 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean this finnish < 1300139083 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE IS TOO MUCH AND ALL THE LETTERS ARE DOUBLE AAAA < 1300139109 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 't' in 'letters' is double < 1300139117 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the o in too is too < 1300139130 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the 'l' in 'all' < 1300139140 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the "aa" in "aaaa". < 1300139142 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the AA in AAAA < 1300139143 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1300139193 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's worst though, si the graphical resemblance between w and vv < 1300139195 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: taking any math courses atm by any chance? :D < 1300139203 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really. < 1300139211 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk, oklopol frowns on you. < 1300139211 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or like, one that I should've gotten done years ago < 1300139217 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :matrices II < 1300139225 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300139227 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FROWNS < 1300139243 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :�a math is pretty bleh < 1300139255 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :åa math? < 1300139263 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :�a is the university Zwaarddijk is in < 1300139269 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm in utu < 1300139287 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You. Have. A. University. Called. åa. < 1300139290 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the buildings are hundreds of meters away from each other < 1300139296 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 Finland except the bits that suck. < 1300139299 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, a spectacle. < 1300139307 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's the abbrev < 1300139307 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: except the comp.sci parts and the biochemistry parts < 1300139314 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the buildings are merged. < 1300139318 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1300139319 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a terribly unholy thing < 1300139324 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1300139333 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like I dunno, a white and a darkie marrying :| < 1300139341 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you lesser universities should stay out of wait actually even utu sucks except for the math dep < 1300139371 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: � isn't even a finnish letter, �a is the swedish university. < 1300139380 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, OK. < 1300139385 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Åbo Akademi, it's a Finnish/Swedish place. < 1300139397 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly swedish/english < 1300139400 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uh, what's the lowest Erdös number in UTU? < 1300139406 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1300139408 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't like Sweden, it created Vorpal. < 1300139416 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: we've got nothing to do with Sweden < 1300139425 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we Finnish Swedes hate on it even more than the Finns < 1300139432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet you speak their language. < 1300139435 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At least sort of.) < 1300139445 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk, suggest you pick on Vorpal. < 1300139445 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of. but they speak a diluted terrible version :| < 1300139453 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ones I've heard mix in Finnish words about half the time. < 1300139466 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah < 1300139474 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's cool :) < 1300139500 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I think ÅA has at least 4 as the lowest, but it might be 3, not entirely sure. < 1300139514 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4?? < 1300139524 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a friend with a lower Bacon number than that. < 1300139563 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i know is your math courses are rather uninteresting, and therefore utu > �a < 1300139575 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1300139582 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know Erkki Oja from our place has an Erdös number of at most 4 (according to some online thing). < 1300139584 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The okloverse has maths and nothing else. < 1300139585 0 :leBMD!~chatzilla@67-2-155-67.slkc.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300139592 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And he's not a mathematician at all.) < 1300139603 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Mine's 6 now via that path.) < 1300139605 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :åa's comp.sci. department sucks pretty bad as well < 1300139606 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hola < 1300139614 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were going to arrange a course on complexity this spring < 1300139620 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: link? i can check the ones that could be small here < 1300139625 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but had only one professor knowledgeable enough about it < 1300139627 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he was too busy < 1300139634 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1300139636 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ilkka Niemelä has 3 < 1300139652 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: we currently have a course on that stuff < 1300139653 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I think I used http://www.ams.org/mathscinet/collaborationDistance.html -- it has the "Use Erdös" button there. < 1300139693 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty simple stuff tho < 1300139727 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I figure it is - in the reading up on teh state of complexity theory for my kandi, I've been able to predict stuff tht's coming up in the book about a chapter ahead of it < 1300139730 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even two at times < 1300139736 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my employer has 3, so i'll have 4 soon prolly < 1300139738 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kandi? < 1300139748 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bachelor's thesis < 1300139748 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: bachelor's degree < 1300139751 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or thesis < 1300139757 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly thesis < 1300139817 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: what are you reading? < 1300139852 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the course is simple because we're just doing the basic np completeness stuff, complexity theory itself is rather vast already < 1300139857 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1300139859 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you read complexity theory companion? < 1300139877 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1300139896 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Papadimitriou's Computational Complexity < 1300139899 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly < 1300139917 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the leader of the math dep has erdos number 2 < 1300139941 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's really basic stuff yeah < 1300139942 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, quick, publish something trivial with him. < 1300140004 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 is better than fizzie's already < 1300140013 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm fine with that < 1300140049 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as oerjan's < 1300140057 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1300140075 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-41.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300140077 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the erdos distance is a bit weird tho, i'd prefer publishing alone < 1300140082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1300140150 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's fizzie's? < 1300140156 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 iirc < 1300140163 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tut tut tut. < 1300140164 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he said it 10 lines ago or something < 1300140276 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1300140324 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude, mines is less than 6. < 1300140340 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 is the upper bound I know, MathSciNet's thing doesn't really do computer science and related fields so there might be a less circuitous path. < 1300140361 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine is 4. < 1300140373 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol vs. Gregor: IT'S ON < 1300140383 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, i don't even have an erdos number yet tho < 1300140399 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 4 is likely to happen soonish < 1300140422 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if Gregor is 4, then that's less than nothing < 1300140455 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me -> Jan Vitek -> Nir Shavit -> Michael E. Saks -> Erdos < 1300140540 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The path I know goes me -> Kurimo, Mikko -> Oja, Erkki -> Cooper, Leon N. -> Zeitouni, Ofer -> Diaconis, Persi W. -> Erdös. < 1300140549 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a lot of ->s. < 1300140636 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me -> Heljanko, Keijo -> Niemelä, Ilkka N. F. -> Przymusiński, Teodor C. -> Rudin, Mary Ellen -> Erdős < 1300140806 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You academics and your Erdṏs numbers. < 1300140820 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I cannot be bothered to work out the right compose sequence. < 1300140878 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That tildes and diæreses can be stacked is enough. < 1300141253 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-76.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300141263 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300141264 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300142030 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric should write an academic paper together. < 1300142066 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel as though I'd be unable to contribute < 1300142075 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I would like to try < 1300142139 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your number one problem is taking your dad's word for everything. < 1300142155 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd suggest you fix the typos but oerjan has more experience than you at that. < 1300142158 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your number *two* problem is being convinced that you have no intellectual ability. < 1300142231 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not convinced I have no intellectual ability. Just that it is firmly sandwiched with #esoteric absolutely above, and RL people absolutely below < 1300142242 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd be wrong there, as well. < 1300142264 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm real i even have a skin < 1300142265 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're just noticing that some of us are *absurdly* good. :P < 1300142292 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I do not include myself in the set of "absurdly good". Perhaps "pretty damn smart".) < 1300142397 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my procrastination makes "absurdly good"... Not quite applicable.) < 1300142490 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to think i was smart but i don't think i think that anymore < 1300142599 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm smart, and that fucking disappoints me. < 1300142607 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm certainly good at some stuff, but i think it's more because i actively train those abilities hours and hours every day < 1300142616 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should *not* be smart. But holy fucking *hell* almost everyone is completely and utterly STUPID. < 1300142640 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1300142645 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I suppose it's not that I consider myself smart as it is that I consider a good 9/10ths of humanity depressingly retarded. < 1300142675 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm well i suppose that's close to my viewpoint < 1300142835 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1300142968 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300143766 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Dang* profile-guided optimisation can make an absurd difference. < 1300143779 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is running bsnes, accuracy profile, in realtime.
< 1300144140 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1300144291 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1300144521 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300145134 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300145247 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEARTATO < 1300145322 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: do you read sate? < 1300145324 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. satw < 1300145570 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, do multi-tape automata for weaker architectures than the turing machine gain anything compared to single-tape versions? < 1300145616 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, weaker automatons < 1300145803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can even make them TC in some cases < 1300145810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if you can construct a Minsky machine counter out of one tape < 1300146012 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I kind of guessed that a pushdown automaton probably can be made TC < 1300146035 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't taken to proving it yet < 1300146089 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to kill a process that kill -STOP and kill -KILL won't kill? < 1300146166 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess reboot'll do it... :P < 1300146826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: kill its parents < 1300146843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably a zombie, waiting to be reached < 1300146849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill -STOP never kills anything, btw < 1300146851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to be reaped