< 1300147212 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1300147262 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1300147321 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: If you're desperate, kill init. < 1300147330 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1300147345 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what an isomorphism is. I think. < 1300147355 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's as far as I got < 1300147362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: may cause kernel panic on a certain prevalent Unixoid) < 1300147408 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, my understanding seems a bit.. trivial. For a function to be an isomorphism (I'm sure function isn't the right word), it just has to avoid destroying information (and possibly creating, I'm not sure)? < 1300147524 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it do on Unixoids that aren't that certain prevalent Unixoid? < 1300147599 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Essentially, reboot. < 1300147609 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IIRC) < 1300147844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt-sysrq-i kills init without crashing the kernel on Linux < 1300147855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, it makes it a bit hard to use your system after that < 1300147896 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, but that's not sending SIG_TERM, is it? < 1300147901 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or SIG_KILL. < 1300147931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's "kill all processes", I'm not sure if it actually sends sigkill or not < 1300148389 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | wjat < 1300148590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1300149858 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAS KITTY < 1300149898 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ニャア〜 < 1300150136 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. In the UK, technically the Crown in Right of the UK actually owns all land, and everyone else leases. < 1300150197 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most such land holdings are made effectively eternal, can be passed on, sold, etc., only going back to the Crown in case of death with no heirs or will. < 1300150215 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, huh. < 1300150244 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens in the US in the same situation? < 1300150288 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, response to my isomorphism question < 1300150289 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1300150513 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Building on Kummer's work and using sophisticated computer studies, other mathematicians were able to prove the conjecture for all odd primes up to four million." < 1300150530 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh.... that seems somewhat redundant < 1300150549 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on the state, it seems. < 1300150627 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, in *most* states, the state government will then become owner of the estate. < 1300150700 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid PDF reader < 1300150745 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some PDF I now have about category theory says that many of its examples willnot be useful to thoe not aquainted with undergraduate level real analysis and modern algbra < 1300150750 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what's "modern" algebra? < 1300150770 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Partial differential equations. < 1300150788 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've... seen partial derivatives < 1300150788 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modern algebra, of course, deals with various abstract algebras. < 1300150810 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as opposed to the single elementary algebra you are no doubt familiar with) < 1300150932 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know a little about sets < 1300151038 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to put this down for a long while, I think < 1300151069 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, you'd be having no problem with this if you were in a real CS program. < 1300151183 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Khan Academy has a lot of stuff about linear algebra < 1300151365 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also has stuff on Differential Equations < 1300151389 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g224203174.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300151564 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1300151614 0 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1300151840 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1300152010 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solutions to differential equations are funtions or classes of functions, not numbers < 1300152015 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : zzz..... < 1300152070 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION beats Sgeo with calculus < 1300152077 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1300152081 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be a constant function < 1300152113 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will this differential equation stuff get into material that's not intutive given a bit of thought? < 1300152133 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quickly. < 1300152175 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will there be trigonometry? I hate trig < 1300152429 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The playlist is only about ordinary differential equations < 1300152963 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300153270 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Partial differential equations is where math started ignoring our safe word and things got a bit unpleasant. < 1300153275 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For me anyway. < 1300153713 0 :pumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pff < 1300154017 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pumpkin :| < 1300154023 0 :pumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo! < 1300154026 0 :pumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup? < 1300154033 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets ling! < 1300154049 0 :pumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really busy these days, which is why I haven't been on IRC much :) < 1300154051 0 :pumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1300154051 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1300154056 0 :pumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a couple of days from now maybe? < 1300154057 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chu up to? < 1300154059 0 :pumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :big deadline on wednesday < 1300154060 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure sure < 1300154063 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1300154070 0 :pumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, big work deadline and my gf was visiting for past week too < 1300154081 0 :pumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no time to fart around at work and then wasn't on my computer much in the evenings :) < 1300154093 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why i dont have a boyfriend < 1300154096 0 :pumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1300154100 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd have no time for fun stuff < 1300154518 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1300155774 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be damned. When I wasn't looking, link-time optimisation got usable. < 1300155850 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC 4.6 (currently in development) has it non-buggy, and GNU ld 2.21.51 supports linker plugins for it to work without having to deal with a somewhat buggy linker. < 1300155859 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1300155898 0 :pumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1300155917 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1300155926 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This *also* means that building with clang or gcc-llvm will have LTO work much better. < 1300156004 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would anyone use GHC under Wine? < 1300156012 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wanting to compile Windows Haskell programs? < 1300156044 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do believe that is the use-case desired, yes. < 1300156287 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1300158700 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@unaffiliated/poiuy-qwert/x-0506151 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300160711 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Abandonando < 1300161541 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1300161565 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Khan Academy: When I click on Excersizes, could you please not assume that everyone is at the Addition 1 level? < 1300161582 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, too hard for you? :P < 1300161643 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a natural law < 1300161651 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that states that educational websites have to be stupid < 1300161660 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :universities are a prime example < 1300161692 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their computer support staff probably gets bonuses depending on who comes up with the stupidest design idea for the uni website < 1300161725 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm convinced that universities hire their dropouts to do websites. < 1300161779 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun thing at my uni - most departments' websites are easiest to find through a link chain going like main page->faculties->departments-> < 1300161788 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you go ->courses < 1300161802 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you end back at the bottom of a ->faculties->departments thingy *again* < 1300161832 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you should be clever enough to remember the url to the bottom of that last hierarchy, but ... < 1300161846 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it happens that I would want to open that when I'm at a computer where my bookmarks are not present < 1300161877 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a bunch of other similar doubled hierarchies in some other places (but none of those are universally broken - some parts of the portal get that right) < 1300161949 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1300162028 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300162222 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1300163455 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1300163466 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-193-78.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300163493 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1300164078 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How exactly does terminfo work anyways. < 1300164177 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don't feel like cleaning up dog vomit right now. < 1300164956 0 :p_q!~poiuy_qwe@unaffiliated/poiuy-qwert/x-0506151 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300164977 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300165111 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1300165665 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300166061 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@unaffiliated/poiuy-qwert/x-0506151 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300166204 0 :p_q!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1300166464 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1300166476 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-149-208.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300166508 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088172176.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1300166572 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1300167169 0 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300167263 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300167728 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:20:08 it stands for oerjan's punnes terribales < 1300167729 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:20:13 it's french you uncultured fuck < 1300167742 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure there should be no a in the second word < 1300167769 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, NEEDS MORE MANGLED LANGUAGE EXPANSIONS < 1300167772 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MOAR < 1300167814 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*except for the plentiful puns involving cannibals. < 1300168004 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oklopol, quick, publish something trivial with him. < 1300168009 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DON'T YOU DARE < 1300168025 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF YOUR ERDOS NUMBER BECOMES LESS THAN MINE WE SHALL BECOME BITTER ENEMIES < 1300168186 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1300168378 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ERDŐS < 1300168506 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300168514 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1300168829 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-149-208.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300168887 0 :kwertii!~kwertii@ResNet-32-197.resnet.ucsb.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1300168888 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im thinking of putting up some puzzles on my website < 1300168907 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of mathematical sort of < 1300168954 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION resurrects Erdős < 1300168957 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUAHAHAHA < 1300168974 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of my profs have relatively small erdos numbers < 1300168987 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: crap, give me a few years to start doing original research, ok < 1300169013 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I intend to write a paper with him on the process of resurrection. < 1300169030 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :genius < 1300169032 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His input as the first person to have been resurrected by technology will, no doubt, be quite helpful. < 1300169044 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, I know < 1300169045 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chomsky has an erdos number of 4, so lasnik has an erdos number of 5 < 1300169046 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what if he is resurrected by theology instead! < 1300169049 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lasnik is one of my profs < 1300169071 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: Then Erdős would be the Second Coming of the Christ. < 1300169081 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have met someone whose wife is a 2 < 1300169104 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: wow < 1300169136 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Erdös is of Jewish decent, so ... I guess we need to bring out our lulav and esrog and all that jazz and go sing hosiannah son of david at his grave? < 1300169147 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: So's Jesus. < 1300169153 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's my point. < 1300169169 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows with those guys, every second one turns out to be a messiah :| < 1300169173 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, the Erdős numbering is going to get absurd if it keeps up for a few generations. Imagine one's Erdős number being limited by the *generations it's been* since Erdős lived. < 1300169192 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: precisely why I need to minimize my own < 1300169193 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erdös numbers should be generalized < 1300169199 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: im sure one could generalize it to factor that out < 1300169200 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can sum up all the paths by which you get one < 1300169205 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/erdös/Erdős/ < 1300169211 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by some function < 1300169218 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ö ≠ ő < 1300169222 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where people end up getting erdös numbers less than one < 1300169223 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you have a generational erdos number dependent on the minimum overlap of some sort < 1300169231 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: No, seriously, ö ≠ ő < 1300169249 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that the earliest you could reasonably have coauthored with someone with an erdos number would make that number relatively 0 < 1300169253 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: using flows, perhaps < 1300169256 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah what we need is just another obsessed drug-addicted math genius to overshadow erdős < 1300169258 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the minimum of such numbers < 1300169273 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i can try to be the first two < 1300169275 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Shame that those don't come often. < 1300169278 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the last one < 1300169283 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not the second to last one :( < 1300169286 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A genuine shame. < 1300169307 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :learning universal algebra and category theory are hard enough < 1300169314 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: it every branching the value splits evenly among the branches and every new node it increases by 1. your number is the minimum over all paths. < 1300169335 0 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300169340 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : so you can sum up all the paths by which you get one <-- wouldn't that be more appropriate for a Feynman number < 1300169400 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: is that the feynmanian interpretation of erdos numbers? :x < 1300169412 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you'd want to add some complex phase factor < 1300169418 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assumed that erdos was more prolific than feynman < 1300169429 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1300169436 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was making reference to feynmans interpretation of quantum mechanics < 1300169440 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the branching has more effect there < 1300169443 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so was oerjan < 1300169453 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1300169459 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was replying to oerjan < 1300169462 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were completely correct < 1300169463 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1300169537 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Note that Feynman has an Erdös Number of 3." < 1300169844 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: interesting! < 1300169854 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so lasnik has a minimum feynman number of 8! < 1300169859 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my example of a way of allowing branching to occur does not let you get numbers less than 1 though if people are nodes, unless you allow per-paper multi-edges < 1300169902 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i almost got an erdos number once >.> < 1300169913 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1300169914 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: i don't think it's cool to calculate feynman numbers in the exact same way as erdős numbers except for starting with feynman, though < 1300169915 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do have one < 1300169917 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :namely, infinite < 1300169926 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it is for me! < 1300169926 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinity is not a number < 1300169932 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yes it is < 1300169943 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only in the extended reals < 1300169959 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but erdos numbers are integers < 1300169967 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every number person should have their own, curiously relevant rule for it < 1300169978 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | ais523, err, how could you know the seed < 1300169979 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: extended naturals* < 1300169995 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: there is no reason to assume those < 1300169999 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly cannot help considering the number associated to a porn star < 1300170002 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my number would have been 3 < 1300170003 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tough shit < 1300170003 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eight factorial is an astounding lower bound. < 1300170004 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people do < 1300170008 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the papers never went anywhere < 1300170011 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i gave up < 1300170020 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you should find the kind of rule used there obvious... < 1300170022 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, upper bound. < 1300170057 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: from wikipedia: "A person with no such coauthorship chain connecting to Erdős has an Erdős number of infinity (or an undefined one)." < 1300170081 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: "Easy" way to get a low Erdős number: prove some conjecture. Thereby be guaranteed a well-known math career. Viola. < 1300170102 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: cello < 1300170109 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the "undefined" interpretation would be simpler. it allows you to say "i don't have one" which is more straightforward than "mine is infinity" < 1300170124 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: well im an ass. < 1300170165 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but i gave up on a math career < 1300170181 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who has two thumbs and will never prove the UGC? < 1300170206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UGC? < 1300170211 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn acronyms < 1300170295 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a shame that all the easy proofs have been done already. :P < 1300170308 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: not in all fields, though < 1300170321 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ides of march it is < 1300170333 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just need to come up with a good new field that sounds reasonably useful, and prove some trivial shit in it < 1300170359 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be. 'Tis the ides of March. < 1300170366 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk, if anything such a field is even harder < 1300170374 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean to come up with < 1300170503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If ye be Caeser, beware! < 1300170521 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i was trying to find a way to learn an intersection of 2 half-spaces in polynomial time < 1300170541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stabs Vorpal =|==/ < 1300170560 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of those problems that's trivial in low dimension, and ridiculously hard in n dimensions < 1300170583 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what is that supposed to be? < 1300170586 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why < 1300170599 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a shank < 1300170613 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a knife you see before you < 1300170626 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there was no good reason for it < 1300170645 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, *dagger < 1300170663 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a perfectly good reason, < 1300170663 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why is it made of rubber? < 1300170671 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Tis the Ides of March! < 1300170677 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you stole it from a theatre right? < 1300170681 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn it < 1300170694 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but but... it worked in hamlet! < 1300170704 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1300170743 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Fail. < 1300170750 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal is not caesar! < 1300170771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The play you're referencing is "The Tragedy of Julius Caesar". < 1300170777 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :january february march april may june vorpal inane september... < 1300170782 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also "Ides of March"+ < 1300170785 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that < 1300170794 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: March 15th is the Ides of March. < 1300170795 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :today < 1300170804 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning? < 1300170820 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Id. Mar.=Mar. 15=Id. Mar. < 1300170821 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no no i mean using a theatre dagger worked in hamlet < 1300170825 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is nothing more to it than that < 1300170830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1300170834 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl university < 1300170835 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1300170861 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Meaning you need to watch some Shakespeare, man. < 1300170871 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: iirc the most dramatic deaths there involved poison: poison in the ear, in the drink, on the tip of the foil < 1300170880 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you don't need to watch it, just absorb some memes like i < 1300170908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shakespeare is genuinely enjoyable when performed, though. It's just insanely boring when read. < 1300170913 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then mangle them horribly < 1300170919 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it boggles the mind that English classes actually freaking read them. < 1300170931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading scripts to plays. < 1300170939 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i took a class on shakespeare < 1300170957 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :part of the class requirements were to go see like 3 different live performances < 1300170964 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Good work. < 1300170973 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this class happened in england, so it wasn't hard to find live performances < 1300170985 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it'd be pretty hard to find that in the US. < 1300170997 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i saw pericles, as you like it, and ... something else < 1300171021 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like you're at most a couple hundred miles from Stratford upon Avon here. < 1300171023 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : there is nothing more to it than that <-- well there is, the roman way of numbering dates was weird < 1300171029 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also went to see a performance of romeo and juliet live in atlanta for one of my classes in high school or middle school... < 1300171036 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have a shakespeare tavern here < 1300171050 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do matinees for kiddies on field trips < 1300171061 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then they bring out the booze and do the adult versions :P < 1300171077 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they counted the number of days until the _next_ calendae, ides, and i think one more < 1300171083 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't to say the kiddie versions weren't as raunchy as shakespeare is by its very nature < 1300171105 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(inclusive counting, so the day before was the second iirc) < 1300171120 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaah, Shakespeare. Highest ratio of dick jokes to content of any bit of 'high culture'. :P < 1300171139 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shakespeare? high culture? HA < 1300171140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: surely that was his true genius :D < 1300171149 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Thus the scare quotes. < 1300171150 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe hamlet was reasonably high up there < 1300171176 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i really think that people thinking shakespeare is haute couture is the strangest thing < 1300171189 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's just several hundred year old reasonably well-written popular entertainment. < 1300171195 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It must be fancy because they talk all antiquarian!" < 1300171233 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, then, a lot of what is perceived as "high culture" these days is really just old popular entertainment. < 1300171235 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOME of them are well-written. some of them suck. shakespeare did, by himself, the entire spectrum of modern movies. < 1300171329 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those darn aquarian speakers < 1300171330 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see: most things that are both old entertainment and enjoyable) < 1300171390 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1300171395 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hamlet = big fish, titus andronicus = 2012, romeo and juliet = high school musical, twelfth night = freaky friday, etc. < 1300171462 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1300171469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Romeo and Juliet gets so very misinterpreted, though. < 1300171481 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why, but people are convinced it's this nice, romantic tale. < 1300171506 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a tale of two idiots offing themselves for stupid reasons. < 1300171597 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And few other plays get that treatment, because people are hardly aware of the premises. < 1300171730 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AnalogyBackfire < 1300171750 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, now I'm even less likely to sleep. < 1300171751 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1300171785 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MWAHAHAHA* < 1300171819 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1300171834 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in another channel i'm in there is a macro bot. one of the macros is to answer any link to tvtropes with "Don't do it! No one's ever come back alive!" < 1300172359 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1300172459 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wellnowwhat.net/puzzles/ < 1300172461 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for anyone interested < 1300172521 0 :kwertii!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: bye < 1300172587 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask me questions (including requests for more data points, or rational simplifications) < 1300172701 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or for some correlative coding < 1300172851 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, no correlative coding, sorry :) < 1300172929 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1300173669 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-243.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300173673 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300174110 0 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300174284 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1300174391 0 :comex!comex@c-67-188-10-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300174409 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1300174708 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1300174767 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: where is the answer supposed to be submitted? < 1300174935 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1300175752 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1300175758 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-172-206.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300175999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1300176000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1300176235 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: to me here, if you like < 1300176239 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or email it to me, or something < 1300176245 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1300176254 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i have no idea what it's supposed to mean < 1300176267 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not really supposed to be submitted tho. its just to get you to think < 1300176268 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate puzzles with no english words < 1300176275 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there _is_ something going on in these < 1300176289 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS 2011 YOU MUST HAVE AUTOMATICAL JUDGING WITH HIGH SCORES < 1300176293 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will answer questions, if you like < 1300176293 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it said something like "find a function to generate this sequence" < 1300176308 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that kind of thing < 1300176321 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i was actually considering something like that, but not for judging, for generating graphs < 1300176336 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: if you want to do that, go ahead! < 1300176350 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill tell you this tho, its not a sequence < 1300176380 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: like theconfoundry.com. automatical/crowd-sourced judging and high scores! and some of the puzzles are actually p okay. by which i mean, the ones that i post are p okay. < 1300176409 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres no real answer to these puzzles tho < 1300176417 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be sure, theres what i did to produce these things < 1300176423 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: so then it's a set? an infinite set? < 1300176431 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an infinite set. < 1300176471 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then an english language question would be "what is the underlying structure that all these things have in common?" < 1300176474 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will a) answer questions, b) provide more data points < 1300176484 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it could be, indeed < 1300176512 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :valid questions are things like, are there subsets that have common properties, etc. < 1300176521 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, what subsets, etc. < 1300176589 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to be a question that involves expanding or restricting the data points in rational ways < 1300176618 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :question: is it more useful to think of these things as (disconnected) digraphs? or as small sets of separate digraphs that are only tangentially and quantitatively related? < 1300176642 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1300176645 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1300176649 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each image (separated by dotted lines) is a single digraph < 1300176690 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, if you ask for some sort of natural reorganization of some fashion, i will also provide this < 1300176699 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is an example of a property which restricts the set of all digraphs to exactly the digraphs in your set? :P < 1300176714 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1300176741 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to bed < 1300176897 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no ideas? no questions? :) < 1300177071 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i wasn't going to say, but it immediately puts me off by analogy with the kind of iq tests i find annoying. < 1300177126 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1300177129 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here theres no real answer < 1300177140 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1300177163 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, the only answer is to understand it sufficiently that you're happy with your understanding! < 1300177173 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...these iq tests are annoying because they feel like there is no real answer, but you have to guess what the test maker was actually thinking of < 1300177179 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::x < 1300177189 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in that sense then yeah, i suppose. < 1300177207 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can give you hints if you want. you just have to ask the right questions! :) < 1300177222 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this aspect of the game is also intentional < 1300177237 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may not be managing to get through the point that i'm not actually interested. < 1300177239 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and informative. < 1300177247 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you SHOULD be interested! < 1300177300 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have this nice book about intuition, it gives the excellent advice to ignore ideas using the verb "should" < 1300177313 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you MUST be interested! < 1300177319 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MWAHAHAHA* < 1300177397 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300177536 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" chomsky has an erdos number of 4, so lasnik has an erdos number of 5" <<< i couldn't find a prof with more than 3 in our uni, but i suppose it's slightly easier for mathematicians :P < 1300177544 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also i didn't try very hard) < 1300177546 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1300177553 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: check out my puzzles! < 1300177847 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no one had a 1 which was kinda disappointing :( < 1300177849 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did < 1300177850 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idgi < 1300177880 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well? < 1300177883 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no questions? :( < 1300177888 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's exactly the kind of thing i don't like doing, i want an exact problem where i know exactly what to do < 1300177890 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1300177900 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: explain it. < 1300177904 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explain whats going on. < 1300177919 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least i want to get that illusion, of course problem solving is always about not knowing what you're supposed to do, but i need some sort of nice framework < 1300177933 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: is the sequence ordered? < 1300177938 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1300177941 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. < 1300177945 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on what you mean. < 1300177972 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is P_2 the first graph, P_2 \cup C_4 \cup C_4 the second one, etc < 1300177981 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1300177991 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the second one was P_2 \cup C_4 i guess < 1300177998 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1300178020 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P_2 is ({u, v}, {{u, v}}) < 1300178024 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C_4 is the cycle of four < 1300178042 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't get my notation < 1300178045 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well, obviously thats true, but < 1300178078 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i have to go to uni pretty soon) < 1300178082 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, the items are graphs, obviously < 1300178099 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but i'm asking if this is a sequence of graphs or a set of graphs < 1300178102 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what information is relevant < 1300178108 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're presented in no particular order < 1300178134 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are a random subset of a set of graphs? < 1300178139 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1300178153 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the subset of small graphs in that set? < 1300178158 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300178170 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1300178190 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm asking if there exists a set of graphs S such that the graphs is see are a finite subset of S < 1300178211 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps the set of all graphs of S up to some size k with respect to some definition of size < 1300178230 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes, there is _some_ infinite set of graphs S of which this is a subset < 1300178251 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :namely, a small number that i bothered to create in 20 minutes. < 1300178266 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, good < 1300178345 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing i immediately started wondering about was a connection between C_4 and P_2: both are in face C_4 if you allow repetition of vertices, but you can't get say a triangle this way < 1300178361 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fact < 1300178368 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1300178376 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck am i saying? < 1300178383 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not true! < 1300178461 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, C_4 is the complement of the graph P_2 \cup P_2 < 1300178478 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and parities add up as well < 1300178544 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess my answer is: C_4 < 1300178545 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eroij < 1300178552 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C_4's + complementation < 1300178611 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive added some commentary btw. < 1300178615 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: join the fun! < 1300178620 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wellnowwhat.net/puzzles/ < 1300178680 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh umm they are digraphs, sorry my crt is kinda sucky :D < 1300178698 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: are there any subgraphs of those given which are in the set but not themselves given? < 1300178723 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case complementation doesn't work, so i'll go with my original answer: C_4 but repetition of vertices is allowed, that does work now now that i think about it < 1300178742 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1300178748 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1300178780 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: or wait, who were you answering < 1300178800 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you, obviously < 1300178817 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...not obvious. < 1300178822 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mom is tho < 1300178833 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dead people usually are. < 1300178840 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you < 1300178857 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ see, it was true and i claimed it was obvious, therefore i'm really smart < 1300178873 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1300178918 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do all graphs in the set have 4n vertices and an even number of edges < 1300178919 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subgraphs not being in the set makes the problem much more interesting, because now i can verify my hypotheses myself < 1300178929 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: indeed < 1300178971 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh you realized that too, was it before or after you asked augur this for that exact reason? < 1300178978 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically without that information, the set given did not strictly imply _anything_ < 1300178980 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by which i mean my comment was stupid < 1300178983 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: before, i think < 1300178994 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300179000 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: to that specific question, no < 1300179040 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it did imply that there exists a natural way to construct these graphs that gives those graphs with the least effort < 1300179054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1300179064 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not really the kind of puzzle that's likeable < 1300179064 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know if its least effort, but < 1300179083 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm *likable < 1300179123 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: mind you, my answers could be informative beyond the obvious < 1300179131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: in that case can you give an example which does not have 4n vertices and an even number of edges (preferably in all allowable combinations) < 1300179151 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1300179184 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i put that off till tomorrow? < 1300179197 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh are they that hard to construct? :D < 1300179209 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no but im on a laptop so doing it with a trackpad is annoying < 1300179213 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1300179215 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the graphics, i mean < 1300179258 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it has more than a million nodes, shit gets interesting < 1300179278 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's the smallest one < 1300179285 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually they might always have 4n vertices, im honestly not sure :) < 1300179285 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this mean the examples given were made not just based on being _mathematically_ easy to construct, but also on being easy to draw on a computer? < 1300179322 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the answer is almost certainly no, but give me until tomorrow < 1300179333 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1300179333 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, drawing graphs is easy, but tedious :P < 1300179368 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for mathematical easy, this might be true. i suppose it depends on what you mean by math. < 1300179396 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah oerjan, what do you mean by math? i've always wondered about that < 1300179417 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it were, this particular kind of math is not at all unfamiliar to this channel. < 1300179440 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-10-191.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300179479 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :byes < 1300179529 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm.. oerjan, i think infact that there are always 4n vertices, yes. < 1300179533 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant mathematical as opposed to physically for presentation < 1300179563 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, actually there are always 4n vertices. < 1300179646 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are all the graphs subgraphs of a square grid? < 1300179659 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not sure what you mean < 1300179715 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a subgraph of an unbounded chessboard pattern < 1300179729 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each example so far can be put in one < 1300179772 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, you mean where each vertex is a square on the grid, and edge are only between rectilinearly adjacent squares' nodes? < 1300179778 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1300179780 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1300179854 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mind you, this is true of any graph with 4n vertices, surely. < 1300179858 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet clearly not all such graphs, e.g. not less than four C_4 copies < 1300179876 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: um no. not for a complete graph, for example < 1300179884 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah true < 1300179944 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, a set of digraphs that there is no odd cycles? < 1300179963 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot really think of the better characterization < 1300179963 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1300179970 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is true of them < 1300179972 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not sufficient < 1300179973 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that follows from the grid property < 1300179976 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1300180010 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every vertices should be a part of exactly one even cycle, then? < 1300180020 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1300180038 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh are the components always paths or cycles? < 1300180042 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait no < 1300180054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not true, some of the examples have no cycles at all < 1300180059 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, and that is not sufficient yet, right? < 1300180062 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: look again < 1300180082 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops they are _directed_? < 1300180085 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1300180096 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1300180137 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have at least two facts to work with that are very useful, i think < 1300180213 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on which questions you ask < 1300180217 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so those components that i thought were just two connected vertices are actually 2-cycles < 1300180223 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1300180231 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case is every component always a 2n-cycle? < 1300180239 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1300180244 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :directed in the obvious way < 1300180296 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can there be larger than 4-cycle components? < 1300180306 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1300180381 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the graph consisting of two 6-cycles a member of the set? < 1300180397 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exclusively? < 1300180403 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1300180405 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, 2 6 cycles and nothing else? < 1300180415 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1300180417 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1300180419 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1300180480 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could summarize the examples given by number of 2- and 4-cycles: (2,1), (2,2), (4,0) and (0,4) < 1300180483 0 :cheater-!~cheater@g230229219.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300180520 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps! < 1300180532 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will not comment on characterizations. < 1300180554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well this is just notation < 1300180580 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will however reveal more data (or constrain existing data) along specific lines (at first just natural ones, later, ones that you describe, if they exist) < 1300180609 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300180714 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm since the components are cycles the number of edges = number of vertices < 1300180721 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so both 4n < 1300180804 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the graph containing just 4 2n-cycles always a member? < 1300180817 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you eman < 1300180827 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1300180827 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1300180829 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1300180831 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme think < 1300180832 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 6-cycles, or 4 8-cycles, etc. < 1300180866 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1300180874 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont think so. < 1300180883 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have a counterexample? :D < 1300180919 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 6-cycles < 1300180942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1300180994 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any element of the set consisting solely of 6-cycles (any number)? < 1300181002 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1300181034 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(preferrably smallest) example? < 1300181060 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've already excluded 2 and 4 < 1300181069 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 6-cycles < 1300181072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1300181108 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about 2n 2n-cycles in general? < 1300181114 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1300181161 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this constitutes a natural simplificatin. < 1300181175 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the set didn't contain the example 2 (i.e. (2,1)) it is possible that there should be no k-cycles or at least k k-cycles... < 1300181183 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not the case, i know. < 1300181227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well a hypothesis is that if there are just 2n-cycles, then their number must be divisible by 2n < 1300181229 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, not a single natural simplification. < 1300181250 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, not an atomic one, i guess you could say. < 1300181266 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: i have no idea what you're asking :p < 1300181274 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: you are not making sense now... < 1300181306 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, that is just a side effect of my thinking process... not asking. :p < 1300181312 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each puzzle that i show you is in principle an infinite set of digraphs describable in some elegant fashion < 1300181325 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the disjoint union of two examples always an example? < 1300181340 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(including two equal ones) < 1300181347 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there may or may not be ways to simplify the description and derive a subset of this set < 1300181390 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is to say, the derivation of a subset is natural, because it derives from a simplification of the description < 1300181402 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe a complication, depending on your perspective, but i'd say simplification < 1300181418 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme think about the disjoint union question for a moment < 1300181433 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1300181446 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the derivation of a subset of that set can be natural or not, depending on how the subset is defined (against the original description)? < 1300181458 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1300181463 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1300181472 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there an example containing 6-cycles, but less than 6 of them? < 1300181483 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arbitrary subsets arent "natural" in the sense that they have an elegant description. they might, but in general they probably dont. < 1300181524 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1300181543 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the set contain an empty digraph? (just to be sure) < 1300181584 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: that _would_ technically contradict information already given ;D < 1300181585 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wait, that should be true < 1300181592 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: which information? < 1300181600 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :false* < 1300181604 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, don't mind. < 1300181606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: no subgraphs left out < 1300181618 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh true < 1300181635 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION briefly confused < 1300181645 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's an example easy to forget < 1300181652 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, its probably better to say it doesnt include the empty digraph < 1300181667 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 4-cycles, 2 2-cycles? < 1300181682 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tho including it doesnt break anything essential < 1300181694 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: rephrase? < 1300181742 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the graph consisting of 3 4-cycles and 2 2-cycles? if we have that then we can concluse we always have the graph of n 4-cycles + 2 2-cycles < 1300181746 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, http://www.wellnowwhat.net/puzzles/1/ has a running log of the relevant question/answer pairs < 1300181753 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*conclude < 1300181769 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, manually updated? :p < 1300181774 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: yes < 1300181793 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there is no graph that is just 3 4-cycles < 1300181800 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i thought that it gathers the q&a pairs automatically somehow at first...) < 1300181806 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1300181807 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish < 1300181807 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: that _plus_ 2 2-cycles, duh < 1300181808 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1300181814 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1300181816 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme think < 1300181852 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1300181858 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that graph does not exist < 1300181862 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1300181873 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er you mean as an example < 1300181884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely it exists as a graph < 1300181887 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes :p < 1300181897 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no! it doesnt exist ANYWHERE! < 1300181905 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it be determined in linear time whether the set contains a particular graph or not, given the numbers of each cycles already? < 1300181906 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that's an obvious hole in my induction ;D < 1300181930 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: i have no fucking clue man < 1300181938 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :) < 1300181938 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1300181946 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill give you a hint < 1300181953 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any graph containing 2 2-cycles + (4n+3) 4-cycles (you just buried n=0) < 1300181958 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1300181970 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're missing a conceptualization thats incredibly useful and potentially incredibly obvious < 1300181977 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er *containing exactly < 1300181983 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea if those graphs are members :p < 1300181989 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1300182022 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont have a full mathematical workup of this, just a way to generate examples, so as the mathematical questions become more complex, i will quickly fail to be able to answer them < 1300182185 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might do well to ask questions that dont seem pertinent to the immediate facts < 1300182230 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1300182257 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this set stem from a problem that is not immediately graph-related? < 1300182268 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of < 1300182280 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(trying to be lateral here :D) < 1300182297 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way im conceptualizing it is only tangentially graph related < 1300182304 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a matching problem of sorts? < 1300182319 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as im conceiving it but equivalent to one, i have no idea < 1300182324 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it related to the continued fraction? < 1300182332 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(random guess, indeed) < 1300182346 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it connected to number theory? < 1300182377 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and i mean the source of it, not whether there happens to be _some_ connection) < 1300182377 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt it, to both. < 1300182403 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a counting problem? < 1300182417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*based on < 1300182436 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably can think of it as one, but that's probably one of the least intuitive ways to understand what's going on < 1300182457 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :transportation/travelling salesman stuff? < 1300182473 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1300182487 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NP-complete? >:) < 1300182496 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too specific, these questions < 1300182506 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :np-complete, i have no idea. depends on what you mean, i suppose < 1300182512 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graph membership test? no clue. < 1300182517 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1300182540 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think more laterally < 1300182626 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm clearly a subgraph of a member isn't always a member < 1300182639 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor supergraph < 1300182699 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the examples constructed by applying some operation to the smaller ones? < 1300182707 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember: you can ask for natural restrictions to the set, or for more information about the set < 1300182728 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300182732 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by applying some operation to the smaller ones? < 1300182736 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea what you mean with that natural restrictions stuff < 1300182741 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you dont have to < 1300182757 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well like doubling a vertex and adding an edge between, that sort of thing < 1300182766 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i said, right now, since you dont know what to ask for, i will choose at random of the ones i can see < 1300182786 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have disjoint union, but that's clearly insufficient < 1300182788 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i have no idea if that will do anything < 1300182799 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not < 1300182806 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok give a natural restriction then :D < 1300182809 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tomorrow :) < 1300182815 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1300182826 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im going to go to bed in a bit, since i have class at 3:30 < 1300182849 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok and i'm going to get up properly < 1300182856 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but tomorrow i will give a natural subset of puzzle 1 < 1300182916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1300182921 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1300182924 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remind me tomorrow! < 1300182928 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at like 6 pm < 1300182931 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pm me < 1300182937 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night <3 < 1300183183 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1300184211 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g230229244.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300184306 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300185983 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1300187436 0 :cheater-!~cheater@e181130006.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300187571 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300187578 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1300188446 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300188530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :context for the topic? < 1300188544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can hardly answer a question in the topic if I don't know what it's about < 1300188552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the punctuation is Vorpal's style, which helps slightly < 1300188884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1300189206 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300190777 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe look for a similar line in the log? < 1300191429 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's from 2010-10-05, and you have already answered Vorpal: well, it's seeded with the current date and time, right? < 1300191568 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | because making a hole out of arbitrary expressions is freaky < 1300191584 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Context seems to be manipulating the NetHack RNG by stepping it by trying to walk into a wall. < 1300191603 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also too late! < 1300191641 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: further to a discussion yesterday, one of my profs this term has erdos number 1 < 1300191686 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Now you just need to cut off his head with a sword, and then your Erdös number will be 1. (What do you mean that's not how it works?) < 1300191717 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have at least another prof with 1 as well < 1300191731 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I haven't met him < 1300194376 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-177-239.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300194383 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1300194384 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1300194396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: go coauthor a paper with one of them < 1300194404 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest3172 < 1300194439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should really ask my supervisor his Erdős number sometime < 1300194450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because otherwise, how will I know what mine is? < 1300194496 0 :Guest3172!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor < 1300194756 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1300195028 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be some sort of an "Erdös number preservation society" that would try to promote co-authored papers between young, healthy mathematicians and aging, low-Erdös-number mathematicians, to keep people with low numbers available for as long as possible. < 1300195175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1300195254 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300195907 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1300195915 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-50.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300196577 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1300197109 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1300197729 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, because clearly that's the metric you want to preserve :P < 1300198425 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, sure: it's a sad world where you need necromancy to get a single-digit Erdös number. < 1300200201 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300200559 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sad... Or awesome? < 1300200636 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Yeah, well I want an Erds number of 1! *gets robe and wizard hat* | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | optbot is fucking terrible and we all hate it < 1300200678 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1300200741 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1300200774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300200816 0 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1300200881 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300201635 0 :antioptbot!~antioptbo@wb-dhcp2-7.wmiscable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300201663 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300201667 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot! < 1300201667 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | Equivalent code: < 1300201667 0 :antioptbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Yeah, well I want an Erds number of 1! *gets robe and wizard hat* | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | optbot is fucking terrible and we all hate it < 1300201675 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1300201695 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot! < 1300201695 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | Yes, but mIRC didn't tab complete you before :P Maybe it wsa just me < 1300201695 0 :antioptbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Yeah, well I want an Erds number of 1! *gets robe and wizard hat* | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | optbot is fucking terrible and we all hate it < 1300201697 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::V < 1300201703 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is optbot? < 1300201703 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: alas it can only edit ColorForth < 1300201711 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alas. < 1300201721 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: optbot is a bot that replaces the topic with retarded bullshit on a regular basis. < 1300201721 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: what about implementing sii? < 1300201746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The arms race, you are starting it. Soon there'll be an antiantioptbot. < 1300201750 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :antioptbot is a bot that reverts any changes made by optbot to the topic. < 1300201751 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: here is the similar one. < 1300201759 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Muahahahaha < 1300201769 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't you just kill optbot, fizzie. < 1300201769 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Because, dammit, the root directory should have useful things in it. < 1300201780 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stabs optbot  < 1300201780 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: afk < 1300201792 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Because of apathy, primarily. < 1300201808 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually it's oerjan who takes more of an active role in administrationary things. < 1300201927 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make an antiantioptbot for the lulz. < 1300201952 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because somebody mentioned it. < 1300202015 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Yeah, well I want an Erds number of 1! *gets robe and wizard hat* | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ < 1300202055 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Yeah, well I want an Erdös number of 1! *gets robe and wizard hat* | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | First person to make antiantioptbot gets a cookie. < 1300202143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I forgot optbot screwed with the topic < 1300202143 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i deem it "teenagerism" < 1300202184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good name! < 1300202185 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't care about it just babbling incoherently, only effing with the topic in a destructive way. < 1300202196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, antioptbot's yours? < 1300202206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may make an antiantiantioptbot, in an esolang or something < 1300202238 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So every time optbot changes the topic, it will get changed three more times, ultimately ending up in the topic it had in the first place? :P < 1300202238 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: [[ < 1300202245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: indeed < 1300202290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300202302 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor. < 1300202306 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want you to make a new bot. < 1300202316 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, or add a function to an existingbot. < 1300202318 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~randomlang < 1300202560 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this does what? < 1300202778 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1300202785 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1300203780 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, decides on a random esolang and a random not-esolang for you. < 1300203793 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK ... and what does that do? X-P < 1300203807 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!randlang < 1300203826 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esolang: /// | Normal Language: Perl < 1300203827 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1300203846 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you go and implement? < 1300203871 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't mind seeing Perl implemented in ///. < 1300203887 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION golf clap < 1300203927 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo I'm programmable, so you can make me do that :P < 1300203962 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm programmable, so you can make me do that :P < 1300204129 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1300204173 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_antioptbot_? < 1300204191 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try it out, it does what you'd expect. < 1300204200 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot! < 1300204200 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | nice < 1300204200 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also it's not my fault.) < 1300204200 0 :antioptbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Yeah, well I want an Erdös number of 1! *gets robe and wizard hat* | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | First person to make antiantioptbot gets a cookie. < 1300204209 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah pretty much :D < 1300204224 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088172176.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1300204225 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: how do you feel at this time < 1300204225 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so what's the problem with just reading it? < 1300204235 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: There are already plans for antantioptbot and antiantiantioptbot floating around. < 1300204272 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic < 1300204272 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soon every topic-change will be accompanied by a screenful of botfights. < 1300204319 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is planning antiantioptbot < 1300204342 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mentioned it, Lymia requested it; I doubt anyone's actively making it. < 1300204361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523's "may" do an antiantiantioptbot. < 1300204375 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's going to be pretty silly with no antiantioptbot in place. < 1300204407 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, i need a suitable programming language for it. < 1300204434 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1300204555 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1300204559 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder.... < 1300204567 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should Perl Golf it < 1300204677 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well some people were complaining i was no fun, so i shall have a suitably silly policy for this until elliott actually fixes optbot < 1300204677 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and how to scale that up further < 1300204684 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 1d6 < 1300204684 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d6 => 3 < 1300204694 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, antioptbot survives < 1300204752 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think he acknowledges there's anything broken there. < 1300204766 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: we made an agreement, in case you didn't see that < 1300204772 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah; I must've missed that. < 1300204792 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a strict drama-quota, must've overfloweded. < 1300204793 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'll make it not change topics for 12 hours after someone else does < 1300204833 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Soon every topic-change will be accompanied by a screenful of botfights. ** only those that are initiated by optbot < 1300204834 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ehird, bool < 1300204881 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i shall use 1d5 for the next bot, etc. < 1300204918 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1300204944 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multibot is really a pretty nifty construction of mine :P < 1300204950 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :antioptbot took me like five minutes to write :P < 1300204968 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :antiantiantianti < 1300204972 0 :antiantiantianti!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :fungot < 1300204978 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just testing how many will fit.) < 1300204992 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not very many, it seems. < 1300205065 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not many :P < 1300205076 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eventually they can just be called "aaaaaaaob" though :P < 1300205096 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oerjan^2 < 1300205102 0 :oerjan^2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oerjan < 1300205239 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: Well, sure: it's a sad world where you need necromancy to get a single-digit Erdös number. < 1300205266 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the singularity might fix that in time < 1300205371 0 :antiantioptbot!~antiantio@adsl-68-95-252-93.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300205380 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot! < 1300205380 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | s/till/for/ < 1300205381 0 :antioptbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Yeah, well I want an Erdös number of 1! *gets robe and wizard hat* | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | First person to make antiantioptbot gets a cookie. < 1300205381 0 :antiantioptbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | s/till/for/ < 1300205385 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 1d5 < 1300205386 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d5 => 1 < 1300205389 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops! < 1300205393 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o oerjan < 1300205394 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::V < 1300205401 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+b *!*antiantio@*.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net < 1300205416 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SORRY THE CHAIN IS OVER < 1300205426 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Yeah, well I want an Erds number of 1! *gets robe and wizard hat* | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ < 1300205516 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-o oerjan < 1300205744 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I wouldn't mind seeing Perl implemented in ///. < 1300205764 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl 6 has no good implementation right now anyway, right? < 1300205767 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you'd probably want to Itflabtijtslwi < 1300205772 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*use < 1300205784 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231049129.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300205821 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe one could add an FF command for the ffi < 1300205895 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300206271 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300206357 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:43:57 Hmm, what's "modern" algebra? < 1300206368 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dearly hope someone at least mentioned groups to him. < 1300206418 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i somehow feel the border goes between linear/vector algebra on one side and groups etc. on the other < 1300206430 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APNIC down 0.25: 4M(!!!)+32k+8k+2k to Japan, 8k to Malaysia, 1k+/32 to Australia, 64k+256+/32 to Indonesia, 512 to Thailand, /32 to China. < 1300206447 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although by this time even groups are old < 1300206456 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, /32? < 1300206462 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't /32 = one address? < 1300206474 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes, but groups are a good starting pointl. < 1300206477 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*point < 1300206528 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: /n there is IPv6 /n. < 1300206569 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhh, sorry, IPv6, got it. < 1300206582 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering if we had really stooped to fighting over individual IPv4 addresses :P < 1300206587 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think daily reporting of ipv6 depletion is like your obsession getting obsessions < 1300206615 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The IPv6 parts are more about adoption than depletion. < 1300206635 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1300206753 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APNIC can allocate 800k of those /32s and then think about getting 2410::/12 (or something) from IANA. < 1300206866 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300206878 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-5-0.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300207070 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1300207092 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1300207093 0 :jix!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300207194 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1300207197 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No RIR is even close to qualifying for second IPv6 block allocation (oh, and the present blocks were allocated in 2006). < 1300207238 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1300207242 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088172176.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1300207341 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APNIC biggest free block: 2M. Major blocks possible: 2M: 1, 1M: 7, 512k: 27, 256k: 89, 128k: 215, 64k: 511. < 1300207342 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1300207360 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grabs popcorn < 1300207380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1300207438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ? < 1300207472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:25:57 Partial differential equations is where math started ignoring our safe word and things got a bit unpleasant. < 1300207472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1300207476 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll find out soon enough < 1300207527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:26:11 How exactly does terminfo work anyways. < 1300207527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:27:50 I really don't feel like cleaning up dog vomit right now. < 1300207528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Precisely < 1300207531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Precisely. < 1300207541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:37:53 *ERDŐS < 1300207543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JEWNICODE < 1300207568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:49:36 I have met someone whose wife is a 2 < 1300207572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making them a 3 by logic! < 1300207586 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :took me an eternity to get that character too, somehow my character map had disappeared from the usual spot in the program menu < 1300207593 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sex = publishing < 1300207609 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : = alt-o-" = come on people use compose keys :P < 1300207610 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott. < 1300207612 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. < 1300207614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Get tuomov's Compose file thing :P < 1300207616 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231051038.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300207621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Windows < 1300207622 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How exactly does one use terminfo < 1300207627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Dog vomit. < 1300207645 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::v < 1300207653 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the usual answer is "by using curses instead" :P < 1300207693 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ö is not ő < 1300207696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION skips over shakespeare talk < 1300207698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what oerjan said < 1300207705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is not called Erdös ffs < 1300207724 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can do ö quite easily < 1300207756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:45:56 http://www.wellnowwhat.net/puzzles/ < 1300207756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::unreadable page: < 1300207774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also broken images :) dunno if that's intentional or not < 1300207778 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1300207779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh now they load < 1300207784 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300207842 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, other RIRs, major allocations, last 30 days: AFRINIC, 512k to South Africa. RIPE NCC: 256k to Italy, 256k to Turkey, 256k to Netherlands, 256k to Poland. All the other RIRs combined can't match APNIC in allocations. < 1300207870 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1300207905 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231051038.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300207928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:02:17 There should be some sort of an "Erdös number preservation society" that would try to promote co-authored papers between young, healthy mathematicians and aging, low-Erdös-number mathematicians, to keep people with low numbers available for as long as possible. < 1300207929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BZZZZZY < 1300207931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*T < 1300207933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU FAIL AT NAME < 1300207939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KILL YOURSELF FIZZIE :( < 1300207946 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicode has made people so picky < 1300207961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_X @ antioptbot < 1300207963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I demand shutup be unbanned < 1300207972 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO CAN DO < 1300207980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ffs, I already agreed to the compromise < 1300208022 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why i implemented a sound and reasonable policy to handle this, see the rest of the logs < 1300208028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot! < 1300208028 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | And another? < 1300208029 0 :antioptbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Yeah, well I want an Erds number of 1! *gets robe and wizard hat* | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ < 1300208036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the policy is not sound and reasonable. < 1300208054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i may have been a _tad_ ironic < 1300208092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, you could get rid of antioptbot and I could implement the compromise today, or I could just keep making optbot work indirectly to counter antioptbot, and never implement the compromise. < 1300208092 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: arbitrarily big, sure, but finite things are usually closed under operations < 1300208110 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300208130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you already banned antiantioptbot, so "I'm not taking a stance here" isn't really a reply. < 1300208144 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't say i wasn't taking a stance < 1300208153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: then that is my position < 1300208189 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: YOU ARE NO FUN < 1300208212 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300208215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm not interested in drama, and Gregor has just created more. < 1300208224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your choice < 1300208235 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i'll ban antioptbot the moment you implement the fix < 1300208256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Then I'd rather rework optbot to fool antioptbot. < 1300208256 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think not. < 1300208265 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sheesh* < 1300208294 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: for once i'm trying to _not_ be serious in response to the silliness here and you suddenly demand i be < 1300208353 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw your fooling needs to be clever; reverting antioptbot's topic changes will be considered evading the antiantioptbot ban >:D < 1300208401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I am not interested in implementing a compromise given by somebody who actively makes related administrative actions but does not ban a bot that disrupts the operation of the bot in question. < 1300208422 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy shit: APNIC (in about last 30 days): 30.4M. All the other RIRs _combined_: 5.4M. < 1300208476 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless some other RIR has mega-allocation for today, that figure is going to look even more lopsided tomorrow. < 1300208503 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm* < 1300208504 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actively makes related administrative actions? < 1300208509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: banned antiantioptbot < 1300208512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rtflogs < 1300208517 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o oerjan < 1300208522 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly, you're in such a ridiculous state of high dudgeon. < 1300208535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm not the one who instigated drama here, Gregor is. < 1300208536 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300208546 0 :optbot!~optbot@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300208546 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :x3gp6amaTOPIC < 1300208551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1300208558 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fancy < 1300208587 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you created optbot and have neither implemented the compromise nor taken it offline. < 1300208587 0 :x3gp6amaTOPIC!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :optbotPRIVMSG < 1300208587 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-b *!*antiantio@*.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net < 1300208601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: When I agreed to the compromise I was FUCKING TIRED. < 1300208604 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-o oerjan < 1300208605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is ONE DAY LATER. < 1300208619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck you, I don't spend every minute of my day changing optbot. < 1300208619 0 :optbotPRIVMSG!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: interpreter might let us support more languages < 1300208621 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: ^ < 1300208626 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, would it have killed you to take down optbot for the night? < 1300208626 0 :optbotPRIVMSG!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh well... De gustibus no est disputandum, I guess. < 1300208641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that doesn't change the fact that you've still made decisions < 1300208653 0 :optbotPRIVMSG!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300208664 0 :optbot!~optbot@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300208664 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :uuc7f8fwTOPIC < 1300208664 0 :uuc7f8fwTOPIC!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :optbot < 1300208670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF. < 1300208708 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300208721 0 :optbot!~optbot@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300208721 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :rlzf2s4d < 1300208721 0 :rlzf2s4d!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | I have a system for jumps and absolute pointer-movements < 1300208721 0 :rlzf2s4d!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :optbot < 1300208785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The agreement was that optbot's operation would continue unimpinged if I implemented the compromise in a reasonable timeframe; this has obviously not happened. All antioptbot does is create drama over the fact that - what? I haven't adjusted it for, like, a whole day? < 1300208785 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I also plan on making it possible to remove all the current regex'es and define your own < 1300208818 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: _i_ wasn't impinging on optbot < 1300208819 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I rather like it < 1300208850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Are you saying that optbot's operation was (before this hack) unimpinged? < 1300208850 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm < 1300208875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: And really, you basically are; you banned antiantioptbot but won't ban antioptbot, which is as close to tacit approval of the impingement as you can get. < 1300208901 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i was implementing a silly random rule < 1300208925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: A silly random rule that AFAICT amounts to "antioptbot stays" < 1300208940 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which in retrospect was a bad idea. i thought certain people here _liked_ silliness. < 1300208949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Applying silliness to idiotic drama? < 1300208951 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that _was_ the random outcome < 1300208985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want a dramaless compromise (does Gregor have nothing better to complain about?), ban the stupid anti- bot; otherwise I can't see any reason to implement a compromise if this is just going to turn into an idiotic botwar. < 1300208994 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you kill me if I brought in a stronger antioptbot? < 1300208994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*compromise like I do < 1300208999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucking non-linear message authoring. < 1300209046 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: i just unbanned antiantioptbot, in case you didn't notice < 1300209059 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently this didn't stop elliott < 1300209082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: If you think unbanning antiantioptbot is going to "stop" me, I question whether you're actually reading anything I say. < 1300209104 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1300209111 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also i find your complaints about drama immensely hypocritical. < 1300209133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Sorry -- from now on I will try and create as much drama as possible, the alternative is being a hypocrite. < 1300209135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that better? < 1300209160 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you are certainly living by it, at least < 1300209171 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot! < 1300209171 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | I don't see how it could, I'm not doing anything disallowed by the C standard so unless it's listed as unsafe in the compiler docs it should be fine < 1300209172 0 :antioptbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | I have a system for jumps and absolute pointer-movements < 1300209176 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;v < 1300209179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh. < 1300209184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why didn't that work. < 1300209196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I fixed my bot because despite you clearly wanting it to be broken you won't actually ban it. < 1300209214 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um what < 1300209230 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's bot is optbot? < 1300209230 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: very little? < 1300209249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Your actions amount to tacit approval of antioptbot breaking my bot, so clearly you don't want optbot, yet you haven't banned it for some reason, so I will continue to fix my bot. < 1300209249 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and give the function the arguments we get < 1300209260 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ < 1300209263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume "you are certainly living by it" was you referring to me fixing optbot. < 1300209263 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's worthless < 1300209269 0 :antiantioptbot2!~antiantio@adsl-68-95-252-93.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300209289 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1300209293 0 :antiantioptbot2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300209293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1300209294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot! < 1300209295 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :zb1gf9xx < 1300209295 0 :zb1gf9xx!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | never used fortran < 1300209295 0 :zb1gf9xx!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :optbot < 1300209304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So why didn't it work a second ago. Oh well. < 1300209309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably timeouts. < 1300209313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever. < 1300209462 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is cancer < 1300209468 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whee. Picture of Nuclear Power Plant exploding. :-/ < 1300209476 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: url? < 1300209506 0 :superantioptbot!~superanti@adsl-68-95-252-93.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300209510 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot! < 1300209510 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ab6etp0v < 1300209510 0 :ab6etp0v!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | tombom, thanks :) < 1300209510 0 :ab6etp0v!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :optbot < 1300209510 0 :superantioptbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | never used fortran < 1300209512 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs < 1300209516 0 :superantioptbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300209525 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.theoildrum.com/node/7661?nocomments < 1300209550 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ < 1300209555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the plant did not explode, only the outer containment building. < 1300209565 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I assume "you are certainly living by it" was you referring to me fixing optbot. <-- no it was referring to your _still_ incessant drama queen babbling. < 1300209566 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Is it worth using powered minecarts? < 1300209585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Define "incessant drama queen babbling"; you mean "not dropping the subject"? < 1300209605 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are apparently incapable of recognizing in yourself the same faults that you complain of in others. < 1300209615 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it were just complaining < 1300209621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very well. < 1300209622 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: shut up < 1300209624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1300209640 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: be nice :( < 1300209642 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grmbl < 1300209717 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i appear to have painted myself into a corner here. < 1300209736 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o oerjan < 1300209748 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suggest you kickban your way out. < 1300209753 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1300209753 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks. < 1300209756 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+b *!*antioptbo@*.wmiscable.net < 1300209759 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will. < 1300209764 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1300209778 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So can I insert the super-mode of antioptbot now? < 1300209809 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: will that fix elliott's incessant drama queen babbling? < 1300209809 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it do? < 1300209845 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: no. < 1300209849 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+b *!*cheater@*.adsl.alicedsl.de < 1300209857 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+b *!*optbot@208.78.103.* < 1300209858 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1300209859 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         | < 1300209859 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        /`\ < 1300209874 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think myndzi missed. < 1300209876 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1300209898 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a consequence of different justification and my long nick. < 1300209919 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-o oerjan < 1300209928 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My client's set up to align all text. < 1300209938 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With no reguard to the person's nickname. < 1300209946 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, same, but myndzi is not. < 1300210456 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300210740 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o oerjan < 1300210755 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300210846 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-b *!*cheater@*.adsl.alicedsl.de < 1300210937 0 :asiekierka_!~asiekierk@078088172176.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1300210962 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231051038.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300211009 0 :asiekierka__!~asiekierk@078088172176.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1300211280 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-o oerjan < 1300211530 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1300211541 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1300211643 0 :azaq23!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300211818 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300211835 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, elliott took his ball and left. < 1300211864 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By "ball" I mean "logging bot". < 1300211898 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope he'll be back < 1300212065 0 :asiekierka_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300212066 0 :asiekierka__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300212329 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Yeah, well I want an Erds number of 1! *gets robe and wizard hat* | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ < 1300212332 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poor antioptbot. < 1300212337 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He will be missed. < 1300212389 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1300212393 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-201-62.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300212488 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifTIuA8Dq58 < 1300212499 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conclusion: negative friction is the Best Thing. < 1300212709 0 :mdivhx!5cec1f78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.236.31.120 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300212834 0 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300212865 0 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300212868 0 :azaq23!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1300213030 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@137.125.187.237 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300213684 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that was awesome < 1300213697 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omfg can't stop laughing < 1300213700 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish there was a whole game on that concept < 1300213706 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same < 1300213738 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*based < 1300213745 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, I keep typing in the URL for the Herobrine logs. < 1300213761 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahahahahh < 1300213766 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pinball at the end was the best < 1300213779 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was like the most amazing culmination ever < 1300213788 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of crazy stuff, has anyone here watched The Other Guys? < 1300213793 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, like, "you're an ordinary man, living in New York, until... FRICTION IS NEGATED" < 1300213803 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBsJUT-K0YA < 1300213844 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You must get to your girlfriend's house because you have the standard video game protagonist priorities." < 1300213870 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah, I definitely should. < 1300213890 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks if he accidentally ignored ai... wait, he's not even online. < 1300213898 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, you've gone mad. < 1300213971 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phant < 1300214004 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, he's crazy. < 1300214067 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saneless in the head that dude. < 1300214078 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1300214226 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://recruitcoders.com/ Slogan: "Reach for competence". Worst slogan ever? < 1300214273 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/for/beyond/, would that make it better or worse: discuss. < 1300214440 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm where did "forward to the future" come from again < 1300214440 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmm < 1300214506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit that phrase is just too common < 1300214522 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look backward to the future! < 1300214551 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i have a hunch it may have been douglas adams or terry pratchett < 1300214648 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, although by troll logic that is blatantly false. < 1300214715 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's so funny about forward to the future? < 1300214736 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it's kinda funny < 1300214747 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's either stupidly true or hilariously false (if you're a troll). < 1300214764 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was from Johnny and the Dead, apparently < 1300214816 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the motto of Amalgamated Consolidated Holdings < 1300214817 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1300214876 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, *United Amalgamated Consolidated Holdings < 1300214878 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300214879 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: conclusion: Yakety Sax makes everything funnier than it already was. < 1300214946 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: this is _not_ news. < 1300215037 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not hugely redundant, as one implies the other but not vice-versa. < 1300215050 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As "forward" does not imply the fourth dimension :P < 1300215069 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's news to me. i can't wait to see tsunami footage set to yakety sax >.> < 1300215090 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... < 1300215130 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it is, however, the kind of phrase that becomes a cliché the first time it's used < 1300215140 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True enough. < 1300215194 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is also the case with that "reach for competence" < 1300215582 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1300215658 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, nah, the humour there is the fact that competence is really not something you should have to reach for. < 1300215691 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...hm < 1300215965 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh now i get it < 1300215972 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan didn't get it < 1300216007 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAH < 1300216049 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't get that you didn't get that they didn't get that competence is really not something you should have to reach for < 1300216053 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1300216074 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you get that? < 1300216092 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OF COURSE < 1300216093 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should do my group theory homework < 1300216101 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what if it's too hard? maybe i'll do it later < 1300216158 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you read my :()^ construction at the Underload page? it's almost group theory. < 1300216178 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1300216186 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think that'd help me with the exercises? < 1300216193 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...maybe not. < 1300216206 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's representation theory < 1300216353 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you finally wrote up the minimization < 1300216356 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should go read < 1300216377 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1300216406 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1300216614 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300217160 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@81.3.gr6.adsl.brightview.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1300217161 0 :icaro_!~icaro@ppp-31-253.21-151.libero.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1300217176 0 :icaro_!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1300217223 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1300217299 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcd.com/599/ :-) < 1300217341 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Allocations in February/March according to latest joint RIR delegated file: APNIC: 36 302 848. RIPE: 10 034 336. ARIN: 5 760 768. AFRINIC: 629 760. LACNIC: 373 504. < 1300217513 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At this rate, RIPE would last about 3-4 months. < 1300217597 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1300217682 0 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@17.101.89.204 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300217682 0 :pumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1300217682 0 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1300217883 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1300218245 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300218491 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300218959 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@137.125.181.62 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300218977 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1300219702 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rages at a fun looking OpenCourseWare course not having all of the lecture notes < 1300219907 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks out University of Reddit < 1300219920 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mindboggles at there being a course on IRC < 1300220388 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh < 1300220409 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multivariable calculus is listed on OCW Scholar's page < 1300220409 0 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1300220429 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"OCW Scholar courses are designed for independent learners who have few additional resources available to them" < 1300220458 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1300220465 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Khan Academy's differential equations stuff and OCW's multivariable calculus viable to do at the same time < 1300220466 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1300220602 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unusual name for a Forth compiler http://code.google.com/p/durexforth < 1300220763 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1300220774 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, dunno. < 1300220789 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although weren't you trying to do category theory? < 1300220937 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Seriously, if you haven't even *touched* on abstract algebra by the age of 21, you're headed in entirely the wrong direction; you are more than capable of handling it.) < 1300221070 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like < 1300221100 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does gmail export everything in their web interface < 1300221102 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as an API < 1300221121 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1300221518 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1300221558 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently there are a lot of immature third party APIs < 1300221563 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1300221736 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean they use lots of exclamation marks and throw tantrums all the time? < 1300221790 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnD aLl ThE mEtHoDs ArE nAmEd LiKe ThIs < 1300221798 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shivers < 1300221859 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really want an email client that forwards all of gmail's features but requires no mouse. < 1300221864 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka command line < 1300222341 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be pretty sweet < 1300222599 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300222923 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: the katamari hack is so much awesomer than websplat. how come you couldn't be so awesome? < 1300222943 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sobblecopter* < 1300222982 0 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300223024 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, every Google result for "sobblecopter" is me. I knew I invented it, but I didn't think that I /solely/ had invented it. < 1300223083 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbf, websplat is more fun to play and doesn't slow ff3.x to a crawl :P < 1300223152 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I have concluded that tau is innately inferior to pi because writing \tau/2 is harder than writing 2\pi. < 1300223644 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.17/20110121150729] < 1300223657 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange, seems to me they have the same number of strokes. < 1300223719 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, but it requires line spacing to do properly which is horrible to deal with when you're writing in pen. < 1300223759 0 :mdivhx!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1300223776 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick, what's a quarter of a circle in radians? >:D < 1300223791 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pi/2. < 1300223800 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that makes sense how? < 1300223800 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pi is retarded < 1300223822 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not that retarded, and changing it isn't worth the effort. < 1300223830 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300223853 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like calling complex numbers imaginary: if it's enough to hang you up, mathematics isn't the thing for you. < 1300223878 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Illogical things shouldn't bother you in math" < 1300223881 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAIL < 1300223892 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not at all like calling complex numbers imaginary < 1300223904 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in the least bit < 1300223957 0 :bitmsk!5cec1f78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.236.31.120 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300223958 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, a constant factor is illogical? < 1300223958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some complex numbers are imaginary! < 1300223965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 2i (or 2j if you're an engineer) < 1300223978 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a rather poor choice of constant to start with, but not actually *stupid*. < 1300224002 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just caught on before radius became prevalent over diameter. < 1300224090 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not stupid, it's absolutely retarded < 1300224099 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...how? < 1300224155 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Which of these things is not like the other: 1/2gt^2, 1/2kx^2, 1/2mv^2, \pi*r^2 < 1300224191 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: too hard < 1300224196 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The former 3 are all integrals, although admittedly pi*r^2 might be derivable from that. < 1300224201 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to have to remember whether it's half a turn or two turns < 1300224219 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always have to get my math books < 1300224238 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: None of them are integrals, but all of them can be derived *via* an integral. < 1300224251 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, how do you get pi*r^2? < 1300224298 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Integral of 2\pi*r, of course. < 1300224350 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how do you get that? < 1300224443 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You fucking know the answer. < 1300224455 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now stop being thicker than a nuclear reactor's containing wall. < 1300224480 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the exp(i*pi) + 1 = 0 thing; there was some sort of "most beautiful formula in mathematics" poster with that on it, on the wall in the maths classroom in high school. That's going to be suboptimal as "exp(i*tau) = 1" or some-such. < 1300224535 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love it when people talk about that equation without even explaining it. < 1300224559 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, floating-point numbers are depressing: < 1300224560 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :octave:1> exp(i*pi) < 1300224560 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ans = -1.0000e+00 + 1.2246e-16i < 1300224564 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, integral of a polynomial? < 1300224570 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Serves me right for using an engineer's tool.) < 1300224596 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, e^i*pi < 1300224604 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a hell of a lot easier to just show the equation than to explain what e^{i\theta} is in the general case, and why it matters. :P < 1300224614 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1300224621 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, e*i*pi < 1300224627 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*e^i*pi < 1300224637 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EIEIO. < 1300224659 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, anyway, I don't *disagree* that pi is a poor choice of constant, just that it's not worth the effort to change it. < 1300224668 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does e have to do with this? < 1300224672 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-16-132.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1300224672 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1300224672 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1300224686 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: e^(i*pi)+1=0; it's Euler's identity. < 1300224702 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think oklo knows. < 1300224712 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: exp(i*tau) = 1 is much prettier < 1300224720 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: yes, what does that have to do with anything? < 1300224725 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: No it's not; it lacks the 0. < 1300224738 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And writing it as 1+0 is just silly. < 1300224740 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: exp(i*tau)-1=0 < 1300224748 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it might be syntactically uglier, but conceptually it's much nicer that way < 1300224754 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, but then you lose the 1! < 1300224760 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you even get a minus! < 1300224764 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No I don't. It's right there. < 1300224774 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, but with a MINUS! < 1300224775 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Between the "-" and the "=". < 1300224792 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Fuck off. :P < 1300224805 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Minus signs, now there are something which shouldn't exist in their current form.) < 1300224822 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the point is (according to the poster, anyway) that there's 0, 1, i, e, pi; and +, *, ^; in it. Nobody mentioned a - anywhere. < 1300224825 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*somethings... no... erm... I have no idea what that should be. < 1300224830 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously, can someone explain where e came to play here :D < 1300224847 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course the poster didn't exactly explain why those things make it pretty.) < 1300224851 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suddenly, fizzie and Phantom_Hoover started talking about e at the same time < 1300224851 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, are you playing the fool or something? < 1300224854 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1300224868 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no! < 1300224870 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ... *Well*, Euler's identity is commonly cited as being an extraordinarily beautiful equation in mathematics. < 1300224883 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's almost like there's some kind of transfer of information between us. < 1300224902 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: And using tau instead of pi as your proportionality constant for circles changes Euler's identity a bit. < 1300224922 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why did you suddenly start talking about e? < 1300224935 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps in the form of a public IRC channel allowing one of us to see what the other has said and react accordingly. < 1300224936 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You either get e^(i*tau/2)+1=0 (if you want it to be an equivalent formula) or e^(i*tau)=1 (if you want a roughly as-elegant formula) < 1300224990 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Because e^(i*pi)+1=0. What more do you want from us, an explanation of how that works? (which I can offer with ease) < 1300225000 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" But the exp(i*pi) + 1 = 0 thing; there was some sort of "most beautiful formula in mathematics" poster with that on it, on the wall in the maths classroom in high school. That's going to be suboptimal as "exp(i*tau) = 1" or some-such." " I love it when people talk about that equation without even explaining it." <<< was this an answer to FIZZIE? < 1300225024 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A comment on what he said, yes. < 1300225027 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhh < 1300225051 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought pikhq_'s integrals of polynomials somehow inspired you and fizzie to simultaneously start talking about e < 1300225070 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he had to have integrated the polynomial using the identity exp(i*pi) + 1 = 0 < 1300225078 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i didn't get it < 1300225189 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION votes tau as nicer than pi, but agrees that no one cares. < 1300225207 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i care < 1300225220 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pi should be destroyed < 1300225224 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even pi/2 would be better < 1300225239 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew < 1300225252 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well quarter-turns are the most used angle < 1300225274 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half-turns aren't even an angle, they are a fucking line < 1300225288 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ that's actually the best argument ever for this pi / tau thing < 1300225290 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but then you have to have 4s everywhere you have 2s now. which is just ugly < 1300225295 0 :bitmsk!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1300225297 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides < 1300225306 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 is _surprisingly_ pretty < 1300225307 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pi was chosen as the first letter in "perimeter" < 1300225311 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Requesting that pi be changed is failing to see the forest for the trees. < 1300225313 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :originally < 1300225324 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so pi should be the length of the perimeter of a unit circle < 1300225326 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: not requesting that pi be changed is being a retard tho < 1300225335 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, you have the vast edifice of wrongness that is mathematics education, and you go for *that*? < 1300225339 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Also http://p.zem.fi/ji0w (and why does the rendering change if I reload that) < 1300225352 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not like having pi like it is hurts anyone < 1300225355 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: can't i go for both? < 1300225358 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we're used to it < 1300225360 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can deal < 1300225368 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So, your argument is: "Some things are much worse. Therefore there is no point in fixing this." < 1300225372 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAIL. < 1300225388 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't do complex analysis, i don't mind breaking backwards-compatibility and rendering mathematicians useless for a few years. < 1300225397 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, because the effort would be better spent on so many other things. < 1300225409 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1300225425 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially if you extrapolate to other things. "There are starving children in Africa, therefore there is no point in stopping you from beating your wife." < 1300225434 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: like having to multiply by two all the time? < 1300225443 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't wanna spend every waking our multiplying by two < 1300225456 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shifting bits is for computers < 1300225461 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to wake up and find oklopol furiously multiplying by two in the corner. < 1300225467 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ that too < 1300225613 0 :bitmsk!5cec1f78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.236.31.120 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300225657 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhow i don't really care if pi is changed or not, conventions don't matter at all in mathematics, because you only need to use them in the short reports you write to other mathematicians (say publications), not in your own work, and if you write say a book you can just choose your own convention. < 1300225698 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can always just write "let \tau=2\pi" and go from there, anyways. < 1300225699 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it certainly is a particularly retarded convention < 1300225703 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1300225836 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but e should totally be 3*e < 1300225851 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, i mean 2*e < 1300225857 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1300225859 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, we'd get division and 2 in the equation < 1300225926 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i heard someone argue that \int 1/x = ln x + C is somehow more fundamental a concept than the actual value of euler's constant. < 1300225928 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e should be expressed as the polynomial expansion. < 1300225934 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even that ^3 so we get cube root and 3 < 1300225939 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*root < 1300226073 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the value of euler's constant is not very interesting, no, the exponential function is interesting < 1300226124 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e is just what it does on reals < 1300226167 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, we can show that the exponential function corresponds to the conventional exponentials w.r.t. base a certain base e < 1300226168 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Euler's constant != e. < 1300226174 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1300226192 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" e should be expressed as the polynomial expansion." <<< what? < 1300226201 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure. < 1300226208 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's e < 1300226213 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Euler's constant is the harmonic number thing. < 1300226219 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All that's really interesting about e is that the integral of e^x is e^x. Everything else really derives from there. < 1300226246 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the derivative, obviously. < 1300226247 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well that's outside my understanding, but i thought you were referring to the exponential function \sum 1/(n!) * x^n which is obviously its own derivative < 1300226271 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can easily be shown to converge for all x < 1300226296 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you look at its behavior on reals, you note that it's just exponentiation (well assuming you know how to do the algebra, i'm sure it's a bit tedious) < 1300226315 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :euler's identity is of course rather trivial to see < 1300226325 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get why people praise it so much < 1300226346 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, that infinity series is nothing more than the fairly obvious Taylor series. < 1300226378 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah the taylor serious i gave < 1300226381 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :serious. < 1300226390 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinite. < 1300226402 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course infinite < 1300226413 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correcting myself, there. :P < 1300226418 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh whoops < 1300226425 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh < 1300226432 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay yeah then also i should've nothing said. < 1300226439 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing a say < 1300226451 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It all comes down to e being the number such that d/dx(e^x)=d^x, and everything else of interest is a consequence of that. < 1300226473 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300226550 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i'm not at all sure euler's identity is easy to prove from the taylor series definition! < 1300226560 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is. < 1300226580 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you also need to know the Taylor series for sin and cos, but they're easy too. < 1300226588 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that help? < 1300226597 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean use some geometrical intuition? < 1300226608 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's of course trivial, but that's not a proof < 1300226612 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it gets you the identity quickly. < 1300226618 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh alrighty < 1300226626 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e^ix = cos x + i sin x. < 1300226635 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've seen it so i know it's not very long, but i don't really see how it's done < 1300226642 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's basically by definition < 1300226643 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what? < 1300226650 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1300226665 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i don't see it < 1300226668 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you show it? < 1300226668 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You plug in "ix" to the Taylor series and do some simplification, and you get the Taylor series for cos(x) plus i times the Taylor series for sin(x). < 1300226677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually just alternate terms < 1300226681 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, you know the series for sin and cos? < 1300226690 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember them < 1300226700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, every second term of the series for e^ix is either a member of the series for cos x, or for i sin x < 1300226715 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just recall you use every second term and then some -1 shit < 1300226726 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just noticed that patashu posted in the tau manifesto thread on xkcd fora. where is patashu? < 1300226736 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sin(x)=1-x^2/2!+x^4/4!-x^6/6!+...; cos(x)=x-x^3/3!+x^5/5!-x^7/7!+... < 1300226752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: he's relatively active in at least one esolang-unrelated forum I'm also relatively active in < 1300226760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although mostly by reading < 1300226773 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And e^ix is, of course, 1+ix+(ix)^2/2!+(ix)^3/3!+... < 1300226793 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm wondering where the pi disappears < 1300226793 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=1+ix-x^2/2!+ix^3/3!+.. < 1300226794 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the random big + in the middle there. < 1300226802 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, in the sin/cos bit. < 1300226816 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1300226827 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sin/cos" meaning "sin and cos", of course, not tan :P < 1300226844 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e^(i*pi) = cos(pi) + i sin(pi), then what? < 1300226845 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: since you're here can you tell me how to make apt-get work again? dpkg freezes trying to unpack this package and i can't remove the package without it saying "hey you should finish installing this first derp!" < 1300226853 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=(1-x^2/2+x^4/4!-x^6/6!+...)+i(x-x^3/3!+x^5/5!-x^7/7!+...) < 1300226862 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, cos pi = -1, sin pi = 0. < 1300226864 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=sin(x)+icos(x); QED < 1300226867 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D. < 1300226873 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yeah, that's what we're trying to prove < 1300226877 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you prove it? < 1300226889 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, that cos pi = -1, sin pi = 0? < 1300226890 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you use geometrical intuition or already know the answer, of course it's easy :D < 1300226895 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1300226899 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you prove that? < 1300226928 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you want it from, like, really really basic principles, it won't fit on IRC. < 1300226967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: try to reconfigure the package first (dpkg --configure packagename); if that doesn't work, use dpkg --remove --force-reinstreq package to force an uninstall < 1300226971 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You define sin and cos, as had been done by the ancient Greeks, and then it follows trivially. < 1300226978 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's the part you need to prove, we haven't done anything yet except rewrite e as two more complicated-looking functions < 1300226993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(forcing an uninstall is a bad idea normally as it doesn't guarantee to uninstall cleanly, but it may be the only option if the package is really screwed up) < 1300227003 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Okay, are you seriously doing this? < 1300227010 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: *Seriously*? < 1300227014 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Start from ZFC. < 1300227021 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES OK < 1300227028 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: well i just realized it isn't easy to do, and you disagreed < 1300227052 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: It's easy to do because knowledge of sin and cos was already available to Euler. < 1300227063 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, basically nothing is easy to do if you demand it be derived from scratch. < 1300227091 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: And, indeed, about as obvious and readily doable as arithmetic or algebra. < 1300227106 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm asking you to explain how it comes from the definitions, and you haven't even told me what definition you use for pi < 1300227135 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you use the geometrical definition, that's fine, but then euler's identity is just a definition < 1300227138 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: dpkg: error processing streamripper (--configure): package streamripper is not ready for configuration cannot configure (current status `half-installed') < 1300227149 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ a bit of trivial algebra you already mentioned < 1300227184 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :start from ZFC, sheesh < 1300227193 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1300227209 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant to quote that < 1300227214 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"start from ZFC", sheesh < 1300227236 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Just extrapolation to absurdity of what you're already doing. < 1300227270 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit like saying "Well, how do you know that *NULL is a segfault? Start by defining C." < 1300227293 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it certainly was that, but saying something is easy, and skipping the part where the actual work is because "it's just zfc stuff" is sort of stupid. < 1300227311 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: finally found the option to force-remove it < 1300227315 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've already demonstrated that it was likely easy to Euler. < 1300227323 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keep in mind, *he already had cosine and sine available*. < 1300227331 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the Taylor series. < 1300227339 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't really know what framework he was doing shit in < 1300227346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I did tell you what the option was in the same line < 1300227359 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes but you were wrong < 1300227387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1300227389 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It really was just a matter of going "Huh, wonder what e^ix is. Let's try this." < 1300227393 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the correct command was dpkg --force-remove-reinstreq -r < 1300227421 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there is an extra remove in there for who know what reason) < 1300227443 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1300227510 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: He had calculus, he had power series, he had Taylor series, he had algebra, he had geometry, he had trigonometry. Now why do you want us to define what Euler would have taken for granted 300 years ago? < 1300227532 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the purpose of showing that it wasn't hard for Euler. < 1300227545 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i don't the definition of pi we're using? < 1300227553 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Gaaaah*. < 1300227563 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1300227564 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone suggest a simple sound recorder app that saves arbitrarily long files as mp3. " < 1300227575 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"simple" is defined as "small and doesn't break a lot" < 1300227605 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-12249172#_blank < 1300227606 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i seriously don't know what pi is < 1300227620 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: If by "extra remove" you mean that there's both --force-remove-reinstreq and -r, that's because categorically the "--force-things" flags only specify things that can or can not be done, while the "-r" is the actual action. < 1300227620 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just know some of its properties < 1300227644 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does noöne in that article have any slight doubts about *starting paedo hunts against anyone with unusually good grammar*? < 1300227655 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no i mean the extra string "remove" inside "--force-remove-reinstreq" since its a flag that's only gonna get used when removing anyway... < 1300227667 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congrats, the Egyptians knew more about geometry than you when they were building the pyramids. < 1300227677 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they thought the Sun was a god. < 1300227696 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300227707 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"--force-noreinstreq" would be clearer < 1300227742 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: That doesn't really make any sense. Force to do what about packages in the "reinstreq" state? < 1300227769 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't know it was a package state < 1300227789 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking "force there to be no reinstallation requirement" < 1300227815 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so possibly "--force-ignore-reinstreq" < 1300227827 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that would make sense. < 1300227869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also regarding the other thing, sox (or the "rec" command specialization of it) might work for long files. < 1300227878 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sox, eh < 1300227880 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks it up < 1300227924 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck < 1300227929 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has quite a few options, so the man page is bit on the long side. < 1300227929 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one hangs on unpacking too < 1300227934 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything hangs on unpacking! < 1300227953 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :running dpkg with debug didn't show any obvious errors... < 1300227984 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nvm...it stopped hanging :P < 1300227990 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least some sox builds I've seen do MP3; but I'm not sure if they all do, due to patents and such. < 1300228033 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is apparently a tool called saydate that doesn't do anything but play the date over the sound card via TTS < 1300228080 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O' Some of the MP3 patents expire in 2017. < 1300228097 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MP3 *itself* was first released in 1993. < 1300228106 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone actually got a patent on MP3 after it had been out for 4 years. < 1300228116 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1300228122 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought patents lasted 25 years < 1300228127 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1300228129 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's US < 1300228138 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fraunhofer IIS is german isn't it < 1300228147 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, sorry, *1991*. < 1300228156 0 :azaq231!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1300228186 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Moot. It's unpatentable outside of the US. < 1300228213 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh\ < 1300228214 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1300228230 0 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300228246 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*AAaagh* < 1300228251 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But somehow they got patents anyways. < 1300228264 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION votes we nuke patent law. < 1300228266 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the only way. < 1300228306 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa < 1300228327 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sox is really cool and really weird < 1300228339 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read that as sex < 1300228342 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the funny. < 1300228347 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sex also < 1300228361 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the whoa part < 1300228371 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't see how one can crop an audio file at just the right place with it < 1300228386 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typically with the "trim" filter. < 1300228395 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1300228400 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have i told about that time i wrote some python code while having sex < 1300228415 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like actually typed it, or mentally composed it? < 1300228429 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sox input.wav output.wav trim 20 30" == extract 30 seconds starting from second 20. < 1300228449 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Can be specified in samples too for more accuracy.) < 1300228456 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: how do you say "cut 36 samples off the end of the file"? < 1300228469 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: actually typed it. < 1300228494 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that sounds like the nerdiest thing ever. what did the code do < 1300228518 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Try out yoob @ http://catseye.tc/lab/yoob/applet.html | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ < 1300228535 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello cpressey < 1300228538 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the link < 1300228541 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bai < 1300228541 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said "i can't have sex because i have to code this thing. unless it's fine if i do both" and it was; it then soon became just sex so i guess i was cheated out of a nice coding time < 1300228548 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i assume the goat was not amused < 1300228558 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code was just some part of some silly game or something, don't remember < 1300228588 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does lambdabot let you leave messages for people in here? < 1300228595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm going to have to ask what yoob does < 1300228600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to know if I should click on the link < 1300228603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: memoserv does < 1300228606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although some people miss the message < 1300228612 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's an implementation of 14 esolangs in a java applet < 1300228618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that does sound awesome < 1300228629 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13 or 14 or some number like that < 1300228635 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Well, uh... "sox input.wav output.wav reverse : trim 36s : reverse" might work. < 1300228643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though java applets officially no longer exist < 1300228657 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The "trim" filter doesn't take end-relative offsets, unfortunately.) < 1300228661 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know lambdabot can leave messages for people in #haskell, i just don't know about here (actually i have no reason to believe it wouldn't here, but i forget the syntax) < 1300228663 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sounds lame. trim -36s seems more logical < 1300228664 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: help < 1300228701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: is the thing all those languages have in common that they're two-dimensional? < 1300228704 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, darn. what have they been replaced with? btw two of the esolangs in yoob right now are yours (BackFlip and Black) < 1300228711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed < 1300228718 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Sure, it's just that most of sox is written to work with potentially endless streams, so you can't find the concept of an end very often. < 1300228721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: they've been replaced by Java Web Start, which is a bad idea on many levels < 1300228725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although not completely useless < 1300228736 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly, because not only is it not a straight replacement, it's something completely different < 1300228744 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes; although the framework isn't restricted to 2d languages, it has better support for them than for text-based < 1300228745 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so what does reverse do? :P < 1300228775 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not part of the "most". < 1300228787 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i remember asking you about that. well, ... as long as applets continue to work. the current implementation can be run locally too, i'm sure i could JWS-ify it if need be < 1300228835 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Accelerating pace from APNIC... < 1300228837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JWSifying something isn't normally too hard < 1300228844 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We may well see APNIC depletion in April. < 1300228846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are so many insane design decisions < 1300228865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Microsoft Internet Explorer integration was a particularly stupid one, although it works (less "well") in other browsers too < 1300228880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where "well" means "runs without confirmation on the basis that the java interp's meant to sandbox the program" < 1300228909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is all well and good, except that it allows things - by default - that web browsing shouldn't allow, such as creating new windows < 1300228934 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like a step backwards, yeah < 1300228970 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Okay, it's a bit lame. The silence-trimming command can remove stuff from the end of the file too, not sure if you could abuse that (the syntax is quite complicated). Also possibly the :s shouldn't be there. It's not the most user-friendly program ever. < 1300228981 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@seen lambdabot < 1300228981 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1300228986 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@list < 1300228986 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS < 1300229021 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: add spiral to the list! i already have a java implementation of it lying around this hard disk somewhere... < 1300229027 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The : seems to be related to something where you have multiple chains of multiple effects.) < 1300229054 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey! < 1300229057 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@unaffiliated/poiuy-qwert/x-0506151 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300229060 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi fizzie < 1300229064 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When did you come in? < 1300229066 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais < 1300229077 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Sgeo My friend says the "Chinese" characters in that dialog box of yours ( http://i.imgur.com/fT4Wm.png ) are almost certainly gibberish; many of them are too rare to occur so frequently. < 1300229077 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1300229147 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, i want something that lets you edit waveforms directly, like audacity, but without all the filters and effects and bloat. or something like windows sndrec32 without the length limitation and with the ability to save as mp3. < 1300229181 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: http://www.quintopia.net/JSpI.java ? i'll consider it < 1300229188 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"rec blah.mp3" is pretty close to that. < 1300229194 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300229243 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i keep forgetting that my website is up. but i think there was a more recent version that fixed a bug. < 1300229252 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: can't stay long, just announcing a link in the topic and leaving a message for Sgeo < 1300229290 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what is yoob? < 1300229325 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oiiii < 1300229337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: interp for a bunch of 2D esolangs < 1300229339 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's an implementation of 13 or 14 esolangs in a java applet < 1300229384 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, you have a message for me? < 1300229384 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1300229398 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently i do < 1300229403 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :peeps! < 1300229405 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wellnowwhat.net/puzzles/ < 1300229410 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have some puzzles < 1300229414 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty < 1300229426 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :np < 1300229430 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: does it highlight the pointer location as it executes? < 1300229439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yes < 1300229442 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet < 1300229443 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to add to those puzzles too < 1300229449 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wheres oerjan :| < 1300229453 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that bastard < 1300229478 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it basically does what my spiral gui app did then, but maybe without some spiral-specific stuff < 1300229498 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like interpreting spiral < 1300229504 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1300229506 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :later, all < 1300229508 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1300230036 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1300230137 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1300230139 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300230349 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see < 1300230364 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has language-specific stuff for every language < 1300230399 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-42.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300230414 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1300230662 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol the noit o' mnain worb thing seems awesome. the > seems to serve as a maxwell's demon in the "pressure" example < 1300230669 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1300230695 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, a diode i suppose. < 1300230785 0 :pumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1300230800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is an awesome language < 1300230809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what its probability of being TC is < 1300230817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., can you make an 80% BF interpreter in it with a suitable infinite program? < 1300230893 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "80% BF" slang for BF without I/O? < 1300230954 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lul < 1300230977 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i think you could make a BF interpreter that succeeds with probability 1 actually. < 1300230987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, really? < 1300230994 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1300231008 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can implement arbitrary circuits in it...one of the examples is a transistor < 1300231130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a reliable transistor < 1300231137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't act the same way as normal transistors < 1300231144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, I'm not sure if it even has a fanout above 1 < 1300231160 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's fanout? < 1300231164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the fanout's less than 1, you couldn't use it in a loop < 1300231174 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure that's easy to explain < 1300231175 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although as the implementation page indicates, unless we solve the wire-crossing problem, it is only TC in 3+ dimensions < 1300231176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the number of things you can connect the output of a circuit to < 1300231183 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1300231186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that are of the same nature as the circuit itself < 1300231189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before it starts malfunctioning < 1300231210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typically it's somewhere between 10 and 200 for electronic circuits < 1300231229 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1300231302 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you can get fanout 2 with nearly the same reliability of the fanout 1 version < 1300231305 0 :bitmsk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1300231320 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, i see what your complaint is < 1300231369 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, i still stay you can get a BF interpreter with prob. 1-eps, where eps is a function of the length of time you allow for the system to "settle down" before making a measurement. < 1300231401 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance you could require that a ! gets hit 1000 times before you output the result < 1300231481 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean like, you can make the likelihood of an error happening decrease, as the program is executed, fast enough that altogether you get 1-e probability for the whole run being correct, for any program < 1300231508 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that sounds feasible enough, although i never quite understood this tcness thing < 1300231516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something I've been wondering about: Funge-98, with the difference that all commands but ; have a 50% chance of doing nothing rather than what they're meant to do < 1300231518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect that it's still TC < 1300231522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although much more annoying to write in < 1300231612 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you execute the program 2^n times where n is the number of instructions, you expect to get a result one of those times. and you can make the probability you don't get a result arbitrarily low by executing it enough times. therefore, i'd say that would also be at least 1-e TC. < 1300231669 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the crucial thing in this kind of stuff is usually to make sure that the probability of making an error gets smaller and smaller < 1300231688 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can have arbitrarily long runs with a constant prob of failing < 1300231702 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since funge can modify its code, this might actually be doable < 1300231706 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it ok to learn differential equations (from Khan Academy) at the same time as multivariable calculus (from OCW)? < 1300231740 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point oklopol < 1300231751 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sgeo: i'd suggest reading a book instead) < 1300231762 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, :( < 1300231765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Books aren't free < 1300231782 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they kind of are < 1300231793 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's this new thing called illegal piracy < 1300231825 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like stealing but YOU are the victim < 1300231828 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1300231832 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that made no sense < 1300231890 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like stilling but John dies in the end. < 1300231893 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*stealing < 1300231949 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: but really it doesn't matter much what you're doing, as long as you have a long list of problems to work on < 1300231981 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate working on problems < 1300231987 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should force myself to though < 1300231993 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's all you have to do < 1300232010 0 :variable!~variable@bing63.oneida-a.binghamton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1300232016 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1300232016 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1300232025 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at least that's the easiest way < 1300232087 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also yeah differential eq's and that stuff isn't that much fun, discrete math is better < 1300232090 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I muse in here while I read? < 1300232105 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why couldn't you < 1300232120 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't do my group theory homework :( < 1300232123 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant, without angering everyone < 1300232136 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well that i can't promise. you can't anger me that way < 1300232146 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*but < 1300232169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: everyone else does, and the people who have you on facepalm also have you on ignore < 1300232173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you won't annoy them < 1300232179 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :group theory is scary so i have a hard time getting started with the problems < 1300232198 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are usually pretty easy but they look scaaaaary < 1300232206 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there are people plural with me on ignore? < 1300232212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1300232257 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how it makes sense to speak of origin vectors, if vectors don't have a location but just direction and magnitude < 1300232306 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if xi is the irreducible character of G, show that sum_{t \in G} xi(t) = 0, if xi is not the 1 character" < 1300232318 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell does that even mean?!? maybe i should open the book. < 1300232351 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: maybe it tells what those vectors are used for, in the context < 1300232420 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you define a vector to be an element of R^2, then i don't see what origin could specify. unless the set of origin vectors is {(0, 0)} < 1300232444 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They say that an origin vector starts at the origin < 1300232451 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, let me find it in the PDF, hold on < 1300232476 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then presumably they use some other definition for vector < 1300232484 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1300232484 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the xy-plane if we place the tail of A at the origin, its head will be at the point with < 1300232484 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coordinates, say, (a1, a2). In this way, the coordinates of the head determine the vector A. < 1300232484 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When we draw A from the origin we will refer to it as an origin vector" < 1300232496 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think origin vector may just be referring to the geometric view < 1300232517 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's what they say < 1300232555 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh < 1300232566 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe they define vectors to be equivalence classes of lines drawn on a paper w.r.t. translation, that can be shown to be equivalent to R^2 for infinite papers < 1300232575 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand the stuff in the PDF, I don't want to watch a 38min lecture < 1300232599 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then don't < 1300232660 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I skipped ahead in the video < 1300232675 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's talking about dot products, which wasn't in the PDFs, but it seems to be the next session < 1300232676 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and were you all like WHAT IS THIS SHIT OMG < 1300232702 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know what dot products are? < 1300232724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: products made by Dot, inc. < 1300232744 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, that's in the next session, so when I go there, I'll learn, presumably < 1300232761 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1300232796 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-189-57.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300232804 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wondering in general, i learned the geometric content of dot products years and years ago since i did game programming < 1300232815 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1300232866 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, that's not very interesting < 1300232940 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's somewhat interesting < 1300232954 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Use vectors to prove that the diagonals of a parallelogram bisect each other" < 1300232959 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should watch the video... < 1300233000 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe I should get some paper... < 1300233022 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: APPLETS ARE MADE OF SO MUCH FAIL < 1300233028 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll leave this for the weekend, I think < 1300233034 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calculate the middle point of diagonal 1 by adding up the relevant vectors, then calculate the midpoint of diagonal 2 < 1300233041 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, you have to use the same corner as the origin < 1300233061 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol! < 1300233061 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1300233066 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur! < 1300233071 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I was not asking for a solution < 1300233073 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hugs oklopol < 1300233076 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: don't leave it for the weekend < 1300233079 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy < 1300233096 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: and i wasn't giving one, i just translated that into a mathematical problem < 1300233126 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not really, but the point is all that's hard in the problem is to know what you have to solve < 1300233134 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not math < 1300233142 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus not fun < 1300233145 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to watch some Firefly now < 1300233151 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefly is good < 1300233163 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviouslt < 1300233166 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously* < 1300233256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats FireFly < 1300233263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only with my hands, as I don't have oerjan's crazy swatter thing < 1300233290 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the problem asked is, for a pair of vectors (u, v), we define the midpoint of u and v as mid(u, v) = (u + v)/2; show that mid(0, u + v) = mid(u, v) < 1300233341 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how incredibly interesting! < 1300233374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that just algebra? < 1300233396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, trivial algebra < 1300233415 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, you open the definitions and use a few identities that hold in vector spaces < 1300233428 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1300233441 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather trivial identities, even < 1300233486 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :namely that the zero vector is an identity element in the group of vectors < 1300233497 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(group w.r.t. addition) < 1300233521 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm just picking on the course Sgeo is on for asking a question with no mathematical content < 1300233578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: most of the questions I ask on the course I teach ask questions with no mathematical content < 1300233588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, it isn't a maths class, so they wouldn't be expected to have any