< 1300407264 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1300407386 0 :pumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1300407533 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1300408639 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, why can't gelfload load normal binaries :( < 1300408824 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should make gelfload a library so you could make platform binaries with platform-independent plugins :) < 1300408920 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the heck are you working on gelfload again? :P < 1300408928 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I have libdl.so X-P < 1300408945 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gelfload as a library is like portlibdl :) < 1300408964 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except you have to deal with nasty things like "calling conventions". < 1300409108 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those problems are MOSTLY blown out of proportion :P < 1300409193 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends, really. < 1300409231 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuh < 1300409234 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Floats are particularly nasty :P < 1300409237 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many architectures have a single calling convention or a single one that's actually common... < 1300409241 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then we get x86 and x86_64. < 1300409254 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300409285 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 has, lessee. The set of calling conventions used by Windows is comprehensive, isn't it? < 1300409327 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much :P < 1300409331 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is quite retarded. < 1300409340 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cdecl is MOSTLY the same as Unix though. < 1300409341 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Mostly) < 1300409345 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.agner.org/optimize/calling_conventions.pdf <-- so awesome < 1300409348 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86_64 has the Microsoft calling convention and the standard one. < 1300409400 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300409404 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should here note that I only really refer to C calling conventions. < 1300409414 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++? Abandon all hope, ye who enter here. < 1300409453 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah, obviously C++ is hell. < 1300409501 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I think libdl.so would be a pretty awesome homepage for gelfload and connected projects :P < 1300409502 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps the only saving grace there is GCC has a single C++ calling convetion. < 1300409531 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modulo C details. < 1300409548 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I was thinking about hacking up gelfload to do "approximation" so you could load old binaries and such if things that changed names just so happened to remain mostly compatible (e.g. libc version hell) < 1300409565 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But for some reason I can't load native binaries even when I load all deps with dlopen ... < 1300409593 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange; I seem to recall using gelfload on arbitrary binaries just fine. < 1300409612 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arbitrary ... statically compiled binaries? :P < 1300409682 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should actually build this GCC 4.6.0 RC and binutils 2.21.51... < 1300409695 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And let the LTO make static compilation suck less! < 1300409722 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300409826 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, this seems to have failed in exit() :P < 1300409830 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WURVE when that happens :P < 1300409839 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so easy to make that fail in a runtime ELF loader. < 1300409865 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(GCC 4.6.0 has LTO not suck, and binutils 2.21.51 has linker plugin support in a genuinely stable linker) < 1300409867 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I'll bet it's because it double-exits. < 1300409966 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO MUCH CONFUSION < 1300409974 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT IN GODS NAME IS GOING ON < 1300410067 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/OPHg < 1300410232 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I/O seems a bit ... "odd" < 1300410239 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But /bin/ls works modulo segfault at exit < 1300410256 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And xterm works which is kinda awesome :) < 1300410272 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimp doesn't X-P < 1300410311 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwtf I can launch gdb :P < 1300410329 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./src/gelfload ./src/gelfload ./src/gelfload # INCEPTION < 1300410854 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g228063228.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300411045 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300411199 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1300411461 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300412161 0 :augur!~augur@pool-173-73-127-19.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300412163 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1300412177 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1300412327 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1300412522 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Found /lib/libc.so.6 for libc.so.5 :) < 1300412537 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are the files compatible? < 1300412588 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on what you use. < 1300412610 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anybody have an x86_64 BSD system floating about they'd like to throw me a binary from? < 1300412613 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, /bin/ls? < 1300412630 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe a simpler /usr/bin/yes? < 1300412886 0 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db423cc.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300413407 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1300413413 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No BSDers? :P < 1300413488 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm corned beef and cabbage < 1300413565 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1300413650 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And red potatoes) < 1300414037 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-16-132.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1300414037 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1300414037 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1300414062 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess no BSDers. < 1300414138 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp, time to make myself a FreeBSD install then! < 1300414229 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1300415287 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES < 1300415303 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mountain Dew Throwback is now a permanent member of the Pepsi line of products. < 1300415350 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sucrose tastes so much better. < 1300415370 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to? < 1300415377 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HFCS < 1300415393 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really *quite* apparent in sodas. < 1300415396 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Lies) < 1300415418 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You realize I make my own soda, right? :P < 1300415422 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(w/ sucrose) < 1300415426 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just trollin' < 1300415434 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're also anosmic. :P < 1300415441 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PFF < 1300415449 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ALSO have an ELF loader that can load itself :P < 1300415455 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and that is awesome. < 1300415522 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww foo, can't run FreeBSD ls :( < 1300415556 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, interesting, it's in relocating, not running ... < 1300415583 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1300415586 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs Glary < 1300415595 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ninite has it, CNEt's heard of it < 1300415689 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Symbol undefined: 'atexit' wuh? < 1300415716 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How odd. < 1300415725 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitely in libc. < 1300415732 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should hope so X-P < 1300415739 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I got Found /lib/libc.so.6 for libc.so.7 < 1300415814 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, or is atexit maybe a macro in glibc? < 1300415818 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's bad about UAC not dimming the desktop? < 1300415837 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like this is Ubuntu, where a rogue application can just fake a dialog asking for the password... < 1300415877 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking for atexit in libmetahost_libc.so.7: (nil) ... yuh < 1300415887 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ nm -D /lib/libc.so.6 | grep atexit < 1300415888 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000000000036870 T __cxa_atexit < 1300415889 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hate < 1300415901 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In PRINCIPLE I could run weirdo binaries, in PRACTICE I can't :P < 1300415919 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the specs don't require certain things to be symbols and certain things to be macros. < 1300415970 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft apparently has heard of Glary utilities. Though maybe I should learn how signed binaries work on Windows < 1300416002 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they're not called signed binaries < 1300416003 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh < 1300416015 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Just make a "library" that consists of calls to each libc function. < 1300416028 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: So painful :P < 1300416045 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I of course mean "make a program that makes". < 1300416055 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have to make them ... from man pages or some such lunacy. < 1300416068 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the info page. < 1300416116 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll make a generishims library. < 1300416209 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, Glary is clearly demented < 1300416271 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or not < 1300416453 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'mma try with old Linux binaries instead. < 1300417017 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... in the eventuality that I download any :P < 1300417246 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try getting ahold of some Loki games. < 1300417279 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(warning: they have more dependencies than just libc) < 1300417335 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, SDL is still ABI compatible with what Loki wrote way back when. < 1300417477 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol zmagic < 1300417478 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too old < 1300417504 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suggested old Lolki game? < 1300417510 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(^^^ not typo) < 1300417517 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, Alpha Centauri? < 1300417594 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is actually surprised that Loki had any success porting games. < 1300417616 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They had 10 employees, and there was basically no infrastructure for doing games on Linux. < 1300417624 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SDL exists because they needed it. < 1300417658 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow this random guy got their Sim City 3000 port running on Fedora in 2010 ... < 1300417690 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually quite commonly done. < 1300417702 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux is still system call compatible, you see. < 1300417726 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a matter of getting the entire set of libraries in place, and voila. < 1300417730 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you think he bundled it with l---right < 1300417759 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, Gentoo has the appropriate libraries in emul-linux-loki-compat or some such. < 1300417854 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... lol < 1300417880 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION proceeds to snag SC3K < 1300417887 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In principle) < 1300417900 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, heck, even if it weren't for such convenient things, you could always just install a chroot of old Debian. < 1300417912 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1300417963 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man. < 1300417975 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows is still ABI compatible with Windows 1.0. < 1300417982 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux can't even keep ABI for 10 years. < 1300418034 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mac OS X isn't ABI-compatible with earlier versions of Mac OS X. < 1300418044 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, 64-bit versions of Windows can't run Windows 1.0 binaries :P < 1300418044 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compatibility was windows's number one goal for quite a while < 1300418047 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not very surprised < 1300418060 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, true, Macs are even worse off than Linux. < 1300418072 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still *possible* to run ancient binaries. < 1300418082 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fekk, potato binaries still work X-D < 1300418084 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mac's had 2 ABI breaks so far. < 1300418112 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple is all about the "if it's broke, throw it out and replace it" < 1300418115 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian potato was on Linux libc, wasn't it? < 1300418126 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no, hamm was that transition. < 1300418148 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, potato *non-C++* binaries will still work. < 1300418160 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :potato? < 1300418166 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1300418168 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dur < 1300418213 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(C++ ABI has had a breakage since then) < 1300418241 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, missing symbols. < 1300418248 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIME FOR GENERISHIMS < 1300418864 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Call to undefined symbol __setfpucw < 1300418864 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Call to undefined symbol __libc_init < 1300418864 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Call to undefined symbol atexit < 1300419432 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Program terminated with signal 11, Segmentation fault. < 1300419432 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#0 0x0804c306 in ?? () < 1300419433 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1300419812 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 804c306: f6 44 43 01 40 testb $0x40,0x1(%ebx,%eax,2) < 1300419816 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes "hmmmmmmm" < 1300419840 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll see your "hmmmmmmm" and raise you a "hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm" < 1300419865 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh that's interesting, it's failing somewhere in the result of getopt_long_only ... < 1300419969 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... why is it dereferencing the result of getopt_long_only ... < 1300419989 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which is an int) < 1300419999 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did getopt_long_only used to have a different API? < 1300420093 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, never mind, I misread. < 1300420145 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's odd, it's dragging something out of BSS ... that's zeroed still ... < 1300420395 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300420472 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this game http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSxiangqivsortho the inventor claims that there is no checkmate possible on first move. However, me and two other people say the Chinese side can checkmate immediately if they play first. Look at the picture (under "Setup"), it should be clear. What do *you* think? < 1300420545 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, *three* other people. < 1300420608 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like FreeBSD and GNU might have incompatible internal __mbrtowc functions :P < 1300420624 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What are __mbrtowc functions? < 1300420667 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mbrtowc - convert a multibyte sequence to a wide character // essentially a UTF-8 to UCS-16 converter (in the common Unicode case) < 1300420680 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's implemented as a macro on both FreeBSD and GNU. < 1300420695 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To different versions of an internal __mbrtowc >_> < 1300420718 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHHEY! I just ran BSD pwd! < 1300420722 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(On GNU/Linux) < 1300420754 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, now I know. Could you possibly make a kind of program patching for this? < 1300420755 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo works too :) < 1300420797 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That's what I'm doing when there are functions that simply aren't supported on the other system, but it's harder when they're just incompatible >_> < 1300421048 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How should I make the icon for the Courier piece in Courier Chess? < 1300421064 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... by finding someone who can draw? :P < 1300421064 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is called "courier" and also "runner") < 1300421103 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :D < 1300421105 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my question is what kind of shape. < 1300421156 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Stupidly, old (like, libc5 old) Linux binaries are being more difficult than FreeBSD binaries :P < 1300421184 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, yes. < 1300421190 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BSD is better-written. ;) < 1300421255 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the pieces including FIDE chess, I just look at the SVG files in Wikipedia and typed in the same numbers. And for compound Archbishop/Marshal/Amazon, I take parts of it and make combined. Some pieces I look at other example and put my own numbers in. But some is difficult. < 1300421436 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is why I ask about Courier Chess. < 1300423143 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1300423633 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, doing the recitation video's problem, I flat out forget that dot products are scalars < 1300423637 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION WTFs at self < 1300423645 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only remembered as the guy started speaking < 1300423708 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am *very* disappointed at the limits on radiation. < 1300423723 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, irradiation. < 1300423727 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite distinct. < 1300423753 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The legal limit for radiation level in irradiation is a bit too low to allow for *shelf-stable meat*. < 1300423929 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For which angle θ is the component of A in the direction of B equal to 0." < 1300423946 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it bad if I don't do any math for that probem since the answer is so blatently obvious? < 1300424341 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300424913 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300424927 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I write some computer programs for Free Geek and make some changes to their other programs that I have been asked to do. I also help them make whatever documents and stuff they need in TeX, and make their logo in METAFONT. < 1300425078 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This is a quit message!!! Now you have to play chess!!! < 1300425179 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solution sheet did not list theta=3pi/2 as an answer < 1300425183 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who do I complain to? < 1300425227 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, they also didn't list 2pi + pi/2 as an answer, and I wouldn't expect them to < 1300425628 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1300425646 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300426199 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would like to beat everyone who thinks that English is and/or should be the sole language of the United States. < 1300426235 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Official languages of members of the United States include: English, Hawai'ian, Samoan, Chamorro, Carolinian, Spanish, French, and German. < 1300426264 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no finnish? < 1300426274 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No Finnish, sorry. < 1300426288 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though Finland could join the US, thereby solving that. < 1300426298 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, true < 1300426313 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only really takes the consent of Finland & Congress. < 1300426336 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or enough insanity to engage in a war of conquest. < 1300426354 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1300426408 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be pretty cool if we suddenly decided to invade usa, flew there and started beating ppl up < 1300426425 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feel free. < 1300426435 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1300426440 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1300426448 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the few quick fixes to our political system. :P < 1300426463 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's five million of us so if we went to new york, each of us would only have to beat up a few guys < 1300426489 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, just taking over New York would really fuck up the US. < 1300426506 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read somewhere really reliable that we have the second most weapons per guy in here. unfortunately you were the first. < 1300426520 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that it'd stop Congress from wanting to nuke New York after that. < 1300426534 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good thing Congress doesn't have the power to nuke anything. < 1300426548 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Unfortunately*, the President can nuke anything for any reason whatsoever at any time. < 1300426565 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that's the big change obama meant < 1300426567 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300426571 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nuking cities < 1300426574 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that suckl < 1300426576 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*suck < 1300426581 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even joking about that, though. < 1300426594 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah that's what i've understood < 1300426601 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is always one guy near the President with the equipment to signal a launch. < 1300426604 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So fucking nuts. < 1300426619 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is sorta hard to believe < 1300426682 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football Not fucking kidding. < 1300426987 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1300427829 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1300427838 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300428236 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1300429151 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1300429228 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300429336 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nuclear football, the sport of real men. < 1300429369 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Alex_Megaroide < 1300429524 0 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-13-79.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1300430159 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088172176.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1300430167 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean european nuclear football, right? < 1300430176 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1300430189 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're referencing pikhq_'s comment < 1300430200 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is undoubtedly an article about the "briefcase" < 1300431315 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is called a football for stupid reasons. < 1300431607 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably because it is meant to be protected by the person carrying it the way a runningback protects a football < 1300431657 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: wait, you're finnish?? < 1300431774 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: No, because of media. < 1300431790 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm? < 1300432094 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300432567 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1300434363 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is very happy because he's getting a free LYAH book < 1300434664 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1300434671 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APNIC space fragmentation (total amount of non-reserved blocks of space smaller than): 1M: 1.786, 512k: 1.442, 256k: 0.895, 128k: 0.629, 64k: 0.329, 32k: 0.229, 16k: 0.154, 8k: 0.096, 4k: 0.062, 2k: 0.036, 1k: 0.024, 512: 0.017. < 1300434817 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better run defrag. < 1300434830 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, APNIC has over /14 (256k) worth of /24s. Allocating those would take fair amount of time, except that allocations start to seriously fragment when larger blocks are gone. < 1300434982 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300435052 0 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-63-179.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1300435199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1300435200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1300435334 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just those small blocks will create something like 1500 fragments by the time APNIC depletes. < 1300435490 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APNIC current maximum block size is 1M, so anything above that will be fragmented. < 1300435542 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2M would fragment into 2 blocks, 4M would fragment into 4, 8M would fragment into 11. < 1300435691 0 :Alex_Megaroide!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :wareya < 1300436325 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231051007.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300436385 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300436809 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: why would 8m fragment into 11? < 1300436871 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5x1M+6x512k. < 1300436904 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's only 5 1M blocks (and nothing larger non-reserved). < 1300436925 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1300437031 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Large blocks are going to run out much faster than smaller ones, causing loads of fragmentation. < 1300437211 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1300437602 0 :Slereah!~buttes@ANantes-259-1-6-244.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1300439031 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol! < 1300439032 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1300440016 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300441331 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: can't they defragment them? < 1300441350 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, they can't. < 1300441378 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come? < 1300441390 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be perfectly imaginable people would be willing to swap blocks < 1300441425 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would mean renumbering, and renumbering is big amount of work, especially with IPv4. < 1300441445 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300441523 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With IPv6, renumbering is somewhat easier, and allocation strategies will also result much less renumbering as blocks grow. < 1300441661 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and while APNIC will be source of something like only 1500 fragments, IP address transfers will result in loads more. < 1300441700 0 :cheater-!~cheater@g230229115.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300441701 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300445042 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://satwcomic.com/how-to-keep-friends < 1300445044 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 denmark < 1300447388 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050100.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300447389 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1300447406 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050100.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300447476 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300447782 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alcopop! \o/ < 1300447782 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         | < 1300447783 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        /´\ < 1300448566 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to latest stats file, APNIC has 35 202 304 IPv4 addresses available. That's barely over /7 worth of space (/6.93). < 1300448591 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_number < 1300448727 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtfo cheater99 < 1300448730 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1300448742 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no u < 1300448786 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD NIGHT IR < 1300448789 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. sir < 1300448790 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1300448792 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINGERS >| < 1300448842 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night < 1300448962 0 :hagb4rd2!~hagb4rd@koln-4db423cc.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300449149 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300449210 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1300449445 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1300449474 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1300452370 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1300453994 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300454426 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1300454716 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1300454751 0 :hagb4rd2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :hagb4rd < 1300454791 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181128179.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300455135 0 :cheater00!~cheater@e181139121.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300455248 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300456599 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300456655 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1300459403 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1300459423 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300459433 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :J has been GPLed. < 1300459438 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this \o/ worthy? < 1300459438 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                 | < 1300459438 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                /| < 1300459494 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1300459894 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./src/gelfload /bin/bash < 1300459895 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Symbol undefined: '__gmon_start__' < 1300459895 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ < 1300459901 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was wondering why it wasn't working. < 1300459911 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason: Oh, it was working perfectly, I'm just an idiot :P < 1300459928 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Turns out THAT'S WHAT BASH LOOKS LIKE DURP) < 1300460211 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, does this mean that Microcosm isn't actually utterly dead? < 1300460236 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Microcosm is a project that I refuse to make entirely my project, so it is as alive as other people are willing to let it be :P < 1300460246 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: gelfload on the other hand is alive and well, but distinct from Microcosm. < 1300460265 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it ground to a halt when you couldn't work out a VFS structure you liked, no? < 1300460288 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1300460298 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's because everybody wanted ME to do the VFS, all I wanted was for there to BE a VFS. < 1300460311 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1300460323 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be happy for somebody else to design (and implement :P ) it, I just don't want to get stuck with direct FS, since that'll make Windows a lame duck. < 1300460361 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to completely different hierarchy? < 1300460391 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And retarded limitations on file naming, not the best mapping of modes, etc. < 1300460642 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300461684 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088172176.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1300461714 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.aolnews.com/2011/03/17/virginia-middle-school-students-suspended-for-oregano-possession/?test=latestnews < 1300461719 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300461724 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Words fail me. < 1300461725 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088172176.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1300461810 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-7-173.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300462762 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1300462824 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181141146.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300462876 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: However, Microcosm or otherwise, I do have this: < 1300462891 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./src/gelfload ./src/gelfload ./src/gelfload ./src/gelfload ./src/gelfload ./src/gelfload ./src/gelfload ./src/gelfload ./src/gelfload ./src/gelfload # INCEPTION < 1300463002 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note that that only works by complete coincidence, btw :P < 1300463004 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1300463144 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1300463154 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the coincidence? < 1300463162 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shared libraries or something? < 1300463235 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, gelfload only works because it's configured to be loaded by the host ELF (or whatever) loader into an area of memory that it's unlikely that the guest ELF will be loaded into. < 1300463236 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Shared libraries graaaah etc.) < 1300463257 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just so happens that when loading itself, the process of replacing that area of memory with ... well, itself is sufficiently atomic to not segfault. < 1300463289 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, so it's theoretically possible for gelfload to fail for no apparent reason due to unfortunate allocation? < 1300463311 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but by that token it's theoretically possible for /lib/ld-linux.so to fail for the same reason. < 1300463326 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it? < 1300463337 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I could intentionally make a binary that would fail in that way :P < 1300463347 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But binaries made for ELF/Linux know where ld-linux is. < 1300463355 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they avoid it. < 1300463359 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They of course don't know where gelfload is. < 1300463478 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I DEMAND SUCH A BINARY < 1300463487 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :hagb4rd|afk < 1300463684 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/tmp/low.tar.bz2 <-- done < 1300463703 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently ld-linux is just barely smart enough to not load over itself, so it kills itself instead. < 1300463737 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The result though is just "Killed" to stderr and $? == 137 < 1300463846 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it issue the signal to self or is that kernel killing process after exec goes sour too late to back it off? < 1300463860 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kernel has no idea. < 1300463865 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's totally userland. < 1300463885 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kernel doesn't even know how to load dynamic binaries. < 1300463886 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strace should show it then? < 1300463917 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strace can have ... unique behavior when things go wrong in the loader :P < 1300463926 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In my experience) < 1300463941 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.115.118.174 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300463972 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APNIC down 0.26: 1k to Malaysia, 3x1M+512k+3x256k to China, 256 to India. 1.84 blocks remain. < 1300464015 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logaritmic size: /7.120 < 1300464055 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relative allocation size: 12.4% (!) < 1300464114 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and two of those 1M blocks were part of 2M block APNIC didn't have space to allocate in one block. < 1300465151 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The existing January monthly record has already been slammed (and it has been only 18 days instead of full 31). < 1300465166 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1300465235 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300465332 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Apparently ld-linux is just barely smart enough to not load over itself, so it kills itself instead. <-- what are you doing for this to be of relevance? < 1300465346 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get 30-day figure of 2.34. Ouch. < 1300465445 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the way Chrome thinks the internet works. < 1300465455 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : strace can have ... unique behavior when things go wrong in the loader :P <-- strange, after all it just ptraces system calls < 1300465456 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At that rate, depletion in about 3.5 weeks. < 1300465457 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hmm? < 1300465459 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't connect to website? WEBSITE MUST BE DOWN < 1300465494 0 :cheater00!~cheater@e181137234.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300465500 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I think Chrome has a thing where it submits inability to connect to some Google server, and if a lot of people can't connect... < 1300465510 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, when is depletion for RIPE? < 1300465534 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, it couldn't connect to the page because *my WiFi was down*. < 1300465542 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1300465611 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300465720 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, stracing low shows it dying during the execve call. < 1300465741 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Lagerholm (ipv4depletion.com) says 2012-10-17. Huston (potaroo.net) doesn't seem to give estimate until APNIC depletes (and RIPE becomes next). RIPE itself says "this year". < 1300465812 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason, Lagerholm gives really optimistic estimates for RIRs. Huston is much more pessimistic (might not be as pessimistic as reality). With IANA depletion, it was the other way around. < 1300465876 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, ARIN says "this year". < 1300465938 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha. Reading comment by Huston written in November: "A less conservative model that uses settings that reflect continued escalation of demand through 2011 now forecasts APNIC exhausting its address pools in September 2011." < 1300466006 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, now it is mostly question of if depletion occurs in first or second half of April (The current huston estimate of May 5th looks quite overly optimistic). < 1300466257 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181136019.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300466316 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1300466404 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1300466510 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300466524 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, is there any way I can use Libertine in LaTeX? < 1300467688 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" oklopol: wait, you're finnish??" <<< yes, what else? < 1300467776 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i figured my decent knowledge of the finnish language was a dead giveaway < 1300467896 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conclusion: JRR Tolkien was Finnish. < 1300467957 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone's finnish in here < 1300468184 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i know a little about suomi without being finnish! < 1300468185 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except Vorpal. < 1300468191 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HE DOES NOT HAVE THE AWESOME < 1300468204 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does not have the... "quality" < 1300468235 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know the language or the country? < 1300468303 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get why anyone would learn the language, but everyone seems to know "yksi, kaksi, kulma, nljy" < 1300468314 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something related < 1300468350 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that the country completely failed at mocking gullible foreigners. < 1300468363 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1300468385 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe scratch that < 1300468421 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you seriously go for naked snow rolls? < 1300468431 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's *classic* gullible foreigner material right there. < 1300468453 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you saying we don't? < 1300468485 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying you shouldn't *unless* it enables you to mock gullible foreigners. < 1300468507 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... naked snow rolls. < 1300468538 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1300468540 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we could mock them by telling them we don't roll in the snow naked and when they go "figured" we could laugh behind their backs and go back to the sauna < 1300468543 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are actually pretty enjoyable. < 1300468561 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I don't get is swimming in holes in the ice. < 1300468574 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You Finns just don't get it. < 1300468585 0 :Mannerisky!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1300468589 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, over here we have this thing called haggis. < 1300468593 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also bagpipes. < 1300468609 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but bagpipes were pretty common all over europe < 1300468623 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: you've tried and disliked? < 1300468624 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As an instrument of torture! < 1300468635 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just the British Empire's Army's bagpipe corps that've made them associated with Scotland < 1300468643 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: tried and liked and lapsed from liking < 1300468719 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't done it for a while either, although multiple times this winter < 1300468722 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like haggis < 1300468723 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is good < 1300468726 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haggis is great < 1300468745 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, see? You've been gullible foreigner'd. < 1300468747 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :klop: i like the fact that suomi is similar to hungarian and japanese, from grammar < 1300468758 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: how? i still dgi < 1300468761 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I figured that was the Scots tricking themselves into it < 1300468777 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i've had really good haggis, but it was sold at waitrose in london, which is this posh supermarket. < 1300468786 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of being gullible at being distinct from the english < 1300468788 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i wouldn't dare eat it from say a stand or a pub somewhere. < 1300468853 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: the similarity to japanese is less than commonly claimed < 1300468860 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heat: i don't think we have anything in common with the japanese grammar, at least based on what i know sofar < 1300468870 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: somewhat head-last < 1300468877 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: japanese almost has a case system < 1300468880 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's about it? < 1300468888 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: knowing both japanese and finnish is less than common. < 1300468904 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know three our four people that know passable japanese and finnish < 1300468919 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well done. < 1300468923 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but uh < 1300468930 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've read typological accounts of Japanese < 1300468935 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finnish is more head-last than english? < 1300468939 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I consider reading a reference grammar at some point < 1300468945 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes. < 1300468957 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have postpositions. < 1300468960 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's about it, I think? < 1300468975 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm right < 1300469008 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that indeed is a similarity < 1300469043 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Head-last? < 1300469066 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: heads of phrases go after dependants < 1300469067 0 :cal153!~cal@70.36.237.178 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300469102 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DO NOT UNDERSTAND THESE FINN WORDS < 1300469110 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so like, English is head-first, since the head of a noun phrase (the article), goes first, the head of a prepositional phrase goes before the noun phrase, the head of the verb phrase (the verb) goes before the arguments < 1300469115 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to my tiny understanding, head-last = stack-based < 1300469127 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300469140 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, both english and finnish are somewaht inconsistent < 1300469146 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :japanese is very consistently head-last < 1300469185 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>-(: < 1300469204 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: that's a VERY cute smiley < 1300469266 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)-< < 1300469345 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not standing on head.) < 1300469402 0 :wth!~tianhou@2001:250:4001:302:223:8bff:fe54:5b7a JOIN :#esoteric < 1300469406 0 :wth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300469407 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean not head-last < 1300469422 0 :wth!~tianhou@2001:250:4001:302:223:8bff:fe54:5b7a JOIN :#esoteric < 1300469431 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, I feel a rimshot is in order. < 1300469434 0 :wth!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1300469455 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i think that was his joke to begin with < 1300469482 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, which is why a retrorimshot is in order. < 1300469487 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1300469490 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only Feather existed. < 1300469491 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can still happen < 1300469492 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should try and get my hands on a japanese reference grammar < 1300469503 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: why so < 1300469513 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for reference! < 1300469531 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that makes sense < 1300469557 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should actually be studying japanese right now < 1300469568 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am part of the conlanging-community, and into typology and stuff like that < 1300469576 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not that far from my usual interests. < 1300469773 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what are the java and c++ of natural languages < 1300469796 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what's the ithkuil of esolangs < 1300469798 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would claim you can pick any two languages < 1300469806 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ithkuil? < 1300469809 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and construct an analogy < 1300469813 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python might be Simple English < 1300469817 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd put English as either Java or C++. < 1300469818 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such that one of the is the java and the other is the c++ < 1300469828 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it sucks but everyone uses it anyway. < 1300469835 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why's English suck? < 1300469839 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ithkuil is that thing where every feature of every existing language works in perfect unison < 1300469849 0 :wth!~tianhou@2001:250:4001:302:223:8bff:fe54:5b7a JOIN :#esoteric < 1300469860 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ithkuil is a cartesian product :| < 1300469865 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk, ...you know English, yes? < 1300469865 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :english sucks as much as the rest of them < 1300469875 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I do, but I know several other langs as well < 1300469875 0 :wth!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1300469882 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk, well, fair point. < 1300469883 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i find the most commonly cited reasons why English suck < 1300469890 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are based on misunderstandings of how languages work < 1300469906 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: lol good one < 1300469910 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that product thing i mean < 1300469919 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's true though < 1300469930 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't say it isn't < 1300469938 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most programming languages suck, though, except those designed deliberately and carefully. < 1300469940 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that mean it's not the perfect language < 1300469952 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which kind of reflects natural languages. < 1300469962 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :natural languages suck all kinds of ass < 1300469974 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :natural languages are pretty well adapted to things though < 1300469984 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, look at the most "engineered" languages for human communication < 1300469995 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1300469999 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of them are inflexible < 1300470010 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or lack redundancy < 1300470015 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because redundancy is "inefficient" < 1300470034 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but uh, there's a clear reason why we need redundancy, and that's why linguistic evolution so often converged on encoding things reduntantly < 1300470076 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Redundancy isn't so much my problem as incessant special-casing. < 1300470076 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*so often's < 1300470082 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is almost ubiquitous. < 1300470087 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the special casing is a kind of optimization as well < 1300470094 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also does contribute to redundancy! < 1300470127 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if all past tense verbs ended in -ed, that'd slightly increase the likelihood for mishearings < 1300470161 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but uh, the special casing is often the result of a kind of inertia < 1300470193 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but that doesn't make memorising it any less stupid. < 1300470215 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, lots of verb forms that are regular are probably memorized anyway < 1300470268 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some experiments that show that inflecting takes more time than recalling from memory < 1300470332 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't dispute that, but memorising special cases takes longer than memorising roots and inflection rules. < 1300470377 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually though, the irregular verbs are very commonly used ones < 1300470400 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you get exposed to them more often < 1300470416 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :per verb, that is, not more often than the regular way of doing it < 1300470421 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY VORPAL YOU SHOULD WRITE A VFS FOR MICROCOSM < 1300470433 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1300470436 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VORPAL WILL RUIN IT < 1300470440 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: Microcosm is a project that I refuse to make entirely my project, so it is as alive as other people are willing to let it be :P < 1300470452 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUGGEST WE INSTALL SOMEONE COOL AS MODERATOR < 1300470453 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically it's the ultimate experiment in lazy evaluation? < 1300470467 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I ELECT YOU BUT ONLY IF YOU WRITE THE VFS < 1300470473 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yesssssssss < 1300470495 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO VORPAL CAN WRITE IT AND I WILL MAKE SURE HE DOESN'T MAKE IT STUPID < 1300470518 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE SHOULD YELL MORE < 1300470521 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S VERY RELAXING < 1300470527 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INDEED < 1300470527 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: GOOD LUCK < 1300470533 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH < 1300470548 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, YES I WILL NEED IT < 1300470552 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE'RE LIKE THAT GUY IN DILBERT < 1300470560 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MAY NEED YOU TO STAB VORPAL EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE < 1300470623 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I NEVER QUITE GOT WHAT THE POINT OF LOWERCASE IT < 1300470624 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*IS < 1300470641 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IS EASIER TO WRITE < 1300470652 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT THIS IS THE INTERNET AND WE DO NOT NEED PENS < 1300470656 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT REALLY, THIS WAY YOU DON'T HAVE TO PRESS SHIFT < 1300470668 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAIT, I NEVER DO THAT ANYWAY < 1300470721 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MEANT WITH PENS < 1300470732 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I GOT THAT AFTER SAYING MY SAYINGS < 1300470752 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO YEAH I SUPPOSE THAT'S THE REASON < 1300470754 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT IS WHY THE ROMANS USED UPPERCASE: THEY WROTE BY CUTTING LINES INTO A MEDIUM < 1300470754 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Haha. Reading comment by Huston written in November: "A less conservative model that uses settings that reflect continued escalation of demand through 2011 now forecasts APNIC exhausting its address pools in September 2011." < 1300470780 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider this a rehearsal of the singularity ;D < 1300470826 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if things turn asymptotic, i think very few human beings have any working intuition about it) < 1300470831 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i can't really parse Ilari's announcements, are there still ip4 addresses left? < 1300470853 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: in the regional registrars, yes < 1300470868 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regional = how big? < 1300470869 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1300470873 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :continental < 1300470876 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1300470894 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g228060172.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300470896 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :approximately. < 1300470918 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does africa have the same amount as europe? < 1300470922 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to use < 1300470964 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i think we have more internets than they do < 1300470970 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :europe is probably running out much faster, although they both got 1 /8 block at the global runout < 1300470990 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the europe RIR also includes the middle east) < 1300471032 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :africa is the smallest of them < 1300471042 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does /8 mean a 256th of the whole space? < 1300471050 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm yes < 1300471088 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k i would've figured it'd be /24 < 1300471093 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APNIC (asian/pacific) is using much faster than the others again, though < 1300471099 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1300471110 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually maybe /8 is better < 1300471137 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however as the last one to allocate normally, they got a bit extra at that point < 1300471238 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they're still allocating at absurd rates. < 1300471250 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i figured my decent knowledge of the finnish language was a dead giveaway < 1300471253 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : HEY VORPAL YOU SHOULD WRITE A VFS FOR MICROCOSM <-- yes maybe during the summer, I don't have time now < 1300471266 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the rest us cannot _know_ it's decent, you could be just making gibberish < 1300471275 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like me. < 1300471312 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what about google translate? if it can't translate any of the words at all then it is likely to be gibberish for example < 1300471316 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hakkapellittäan oklopoli on koskenkorvat < 1300471325 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i had a decent length conversation with Zwaarddijk in finnish tho. but i guess i could've planned this with him in pm < 1300471326 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, *ään < 1300471330 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, that looks plausible < 1300471334 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err oerjan < 1300471376 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's due to my decent knowledge of the finnish gibberish < 1300471382 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan ro'hìȳaku sannhiȳaku kuwasî ha ne! neko neko kawaî! < 1300471385 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hakkapeliittaan < 1300471394 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit < 1300471404 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what does those words mean? < 1300471405 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you put an there < 1300471410 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy foreigners < 1300471412 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1300471439 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, hey, you're not stupid; can you do the VFS for Microcosm? < 1300471442 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: darukadaruka muhame'tò sìha'tò no tè. < 1300471442 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well i thought there had to be a new root inside there, so the last part was frontal < 1300471447 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still have no idea what you meant though < 1300471453 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Can? Probably. Will? Probably not. < 1300471483 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, dammit, that's two of us. Except if I did it all chance of Windows portability would be out of the window. < 1300471508 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oklopol: darukadaruka muhame'tò sìha'tò no tè. <-- what is this? < 1300471518 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Bullshit. < 1300471522 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: :) < 1300471523 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't translate oh < 1300471538 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, looks like a mix of Japanese and some language Tolkin made up :P < 1300471565 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the first one you almost said 600 300 then kuwa is some sort of farm related tool and then cat cat cute < 1300471566 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's an attempt to transcribe Arabic-esque jibberish into Japanese that I fucked up because I need coffee. < 1300471582 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1300471591 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: "Oerjan 600 300 explain, right? Cat cat cute!" < 1300471604 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The last bit was, of course, because of non-Japanese otaku. < 1300471618 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is kuwasu to explain < 1300471646 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Waaait, that's not it, is it. < 1300471649 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right kuwa is a hoe < 1300471650 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucking hell I need coffee. < 1300471705 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kuwasii "detailed, accurate, well-informed"... < 1300471767 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sannhiȳaku <<< shouldn't you have the hi -> bi thing somewhere? < 1300471774 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I officially suck at determining that things suck < 1300471776 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still don't know this notation :\ < 1300471780 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I really need coffee. < 1300471782 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had no opinion of Rebecca Black's "Friday" < 1300471783 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1300471788 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, ah, but how did you determine this? < 1300471789 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should be sannhìȳaku, yes. < 1300471800 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two n's why? < 1300471815 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how you encode moraic "n" in my notation. < 1300471824 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1300471834 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By not hating something that the world seems to hate. < 1300471848 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :っ is encoded as "'". < 1300471852 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that world hate < 1300471866 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: that much i reverse-engineered < 1300471874 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what thing? Windows ME? < 1300471889 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actually the rest too, except for that n thing, i suppose < 1300471900 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helps that it's quite regular. < 1300471911 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think < 1300471931 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Every kana is encoded in one or two characters". Easy. < 1300471933 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD2LRROpph0 < 1300471942 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kana means chicken in finnish < 1300471955 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION lols at all the critical comments being marked as spam < 1300471962 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, might check later. < 1300471983 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means temporary notation in Japanese. :P < 1300471994 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually katakana means use the chicken as a table in finnish < 1300472004 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. not exactly, but anyhow. < 1300472056 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :japanese people are too crazy < 1300472060 0 :Zwaarddijk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like "set the chicken", where "set" is used as the verb in "set the table" < 1300472072 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but i preferred mine < 1300472091 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Game, set, match. < 1300472096 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk, dining on a chicken? awesome idea < 1300472178 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1300472184 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088172176.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1300472322 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: No, English speakers are too crazy. < 1300472330 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Japanese people just don't give a shit. < 1300472364 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone's not crazy enough. < 1300472587 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, not even Gene Ray? < 1300472595 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a most unusual name too) < 1300472614 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, he's just differently sane. < 1300472640 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1300472666 0 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-6-244.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1300472698 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "Gene Ray" isn't too unusual a name. < 1300472705 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both are common enough components. < 1300472731 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a ray of genes < 1300472878 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes but the combination sounds quite weird :P < 1300472933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meme Tangent < 1300472998 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"differently sane" X-D < 1300473044 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1300473554 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, combining a common first name with a common last name does not necessarily yield a common name. < 1300473564 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't see too many Nguyen McTavishes. < 1300473690 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Common English-y first/last < 1300473766 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, or Sven Smith < 1300473896 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Ørjan Tanaka. < 1300474004 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300474112 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300474364 0 :Slereah!~buttes@ANantes-259-1-53-235.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1300474558 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sven smith is probably not that rare in scandinavia... < 1300474617 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooko < 1300474683 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm actually the top google hits seem to all be in english < 1300474747 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :svein smith on the other hand gives many norwegian hits (although that's with norwegian google) < 1300474785 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm actually that's probably mainly one person, svein smith-meyer < 1300474787 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300474791 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokoko < 1300474792 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokoko < 1300474794 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokoko < 1300474795 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokoko < 1300474798 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1300474799 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokoko < 1300474801 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokoko < 1300474802 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokoko < 1300474805 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1300474807 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokoko < 1300474827 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who seems to be a ceo kind of guy < 1300474845 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and freemason :D < 1300474851 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freemasons! < 1300474873 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: okoko? < 1300474937 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a guy in my school who thinks the fact that itanimulla.com redirects to nsa.gov is incontrovertible proof that the Illuminati control the government. < 1300474976 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's an anagram of illuminata? < 1300474995 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*itanimulli < 1300475016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely a redirect the other way would potentially be proof, but that way round is irrelevant? < 1300475097 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um actually it's not an anagram, there's an i/a mismatch < 1300475103 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to tell him that, but it's nigh impossible to reason people out of positions they didn't reason themselves into. < 1300475107 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er oh < 1300475112 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it certainly is an anagram of illuminata < 1300475112 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I ACKNOWLEDGED THAT < 1300475124 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no mismatch < 1300475147 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the illuminati, just more neutral < 1300475179 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damnit, guy at #math stopped asking why the zero vector alone forms a vector space < 1300475212 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was funnn < 1300475226 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean he actually got it? < 1300475228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it wouldn't form a very /useful/ vector space... < 1300475236 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does < 1300475268 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, " moses: do this exercise on your own (that's all there is to it): Let F be any field and X any singleton set. Show that there is exactly one way to endow X with a K-vector space structure (addition, K-scalar multiplication, zero)." " weia: i will" " bbl" < 1300475307 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't have the zero space, many things become more complicated to state < 1300475331 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vector spaces are varieties, and all varieties have trivial members < 1300475338 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*form a variety < 1300475341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well, OK < 1300475359 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what oerjan said although that's essentially the same thing < 1300475379 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variety = closed under subthings and products and homosexual images < 1300475397 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not having {0} would be a silly exception < 1300475414 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that = should be an equivalence though, i don't think they usually take that as the definition < 1300475429 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i saw it as a definition *today* < 1300475430 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe they do < 1300475435 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1300475463 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw did you know that < 1300475472 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you just have finite direct products < 1300475482 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you don't get that varieties = equation defined shit < 1300475483 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but instead < 1300475489 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that varieties are that in some eventual sense < 1300475499 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1300475512 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what that sense is because the article about this couldn't be found on the internets :( < 1300475518 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't recall but i may have touched by it < 1300475586 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but were you touched by it? < 1300475589 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall there's a connection between monads over Set and varieties with possibly infinite operations, though < 1300475591 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess not if you don't recall it < 1300475637 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure if that could be similar to what you say < 1300475679 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this i read in an encyclopedia (paper) article about monads, though < 1300475730 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wikipedes < 1300475823 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1300475881 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APNIC relative allocations in last 30 days: Something like 86.8%. Insane. Just plain insane. < 1300475891 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok this is far too dense for my brain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monad_(category_theory)#Algebras_for_a_monad < 1300475898 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some 0.25 /8s were allocated today, right? < 1300475901 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.26 < 1300475921 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, over 5 times the rate of entiere rest of the world combined. < 1300475924 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So freaking insane. < 1300475933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was hoping for something specialized to Set < 1300475947 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300475959 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last 30 days rate for APNIC is now something like 2.34 blocks. < 1300475991 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1300476051 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is something utterly insane. < 1300476100 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300476114 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION builds GCC for reasons of hopefully awesome < 1300476160 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1300476166 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For this year as whole: 4.30 blocks. < 1300476358 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :77 days. And over half of those addresses have been allocated in last 30 days. Wow. < 1300476365 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i got stuck at the adjoint functors part < 1300476370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many blocks does APNIC have left? < 1300476375 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the monad article < 1300476423 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.84 (not couting setaside block). < 1300476443 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I'll just assume that I will understand that much better when I get further in my studies. < 1300476477 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm every pair of adjoint functors gives a monad, and every monad arises from such a pair in at least one way < 1300476499 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but what the hell is a pair of adjoint functors < 1300476508 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1300476544 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll continue trying to understand -> < 1300476547 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well a typical example is the free functor and the underlying functor for a variety of algebras < 1300476559 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks forward to having a generally-usable link-time optimising compiler < 1300476593 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say L is the functor which takes a set to the free monoid on the set, and R is the functor which takes a monoid to its underlying set < 1300476646 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the free monoid on a set, S goes to all finite sequences of elements of S? < 1300476650 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then L : Set -> Monoid and R : Monoid -> Set is an adjoint pair, and RL : Set -> Set is essentially Haskell's list monad < 1300476665 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1300476672 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At 2.34 blocks per 30 days, depleting that would take 24 days. 24 days from now is 11th April. < 1300476673 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they're not inverses? < 1300476674 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm presuming if "GCC, Mozilla Firefox, and other large applications" work, then GCC's LTO is actually functional. < 1300476689 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess no one said they'd be < 1300476691 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, they are not usually inverses < 1300476725 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott would be so happy; this makes static linking worthwhile. :P < 1300476727 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are natural transformations that make them almost inverses, though < 1300476736 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, might even make static linking against *glibc* practical. < 1300476741 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though I doubt it) < 1300476783 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Id -> RL is one, and that's the return for the list monad < 1300476830 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LR -> Id may be coreturn for the list comonad, i'm not entirely sure < 1300476851 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for the example above) < 1300476857 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what does it mean for a bijection to be natural? < 1300476867 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to get the wp article and that's hard :< < 1300476911 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1300476973 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because i'm not looking up the definition of naturality < 1300476983 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it is a natural transformation, i presume < 1300476984 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bothers < 1300477009 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturality is pretty fundamental for category theory < 1300477015 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh one of those things natural transformations have between hom sets? < 1300477017 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmhmm < 1300477089 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No *wonder* oerjan finds Haskell so natural. He actually knows category theory, rather than things vaguely related to it! :P < 1300477101 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bijection should _be_ a natural transformation when restricted to each variable (and taking the most obvious functors to be a transformation between) < 1300477135 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a natural transformation between what functors? < 1300477151 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1300477193 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone give me a decent syntax for unordered pairs in Haskell. < 1300477208 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee hom_C(FY, X) -> hom_C(Y, GX) < 1300477209 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah idgi, i don't see two categories with the same "domain and codomain" categories < 1300477299 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you fix X, say, the left side is the composition of the hom_C(., X) functor with the F functor and the right side is simply the hom_C(. , GX) functor < 1300477341 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the bijection being a natural transformation between those is what it means to be "natural in Y" < 1300477365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er oops < 1300477371 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hom_D(Y, GX) < 1300477389 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's dwell in "the hom_C(., X) functor" for a while < 1300477423 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a function from C's objects to certain subsets of its morphisms < 1300477452 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you make it a functor? < 1300477487 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1300477490 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b964e5.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300477533 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a functor from Set to Set, actually < 1300477573 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which explains how this is all in one category < 1300477644 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should legislate against unnatural transformations < 1300477647 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frankly it's disgusting < 1300477660 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think they should be allowed to exist < 1300477667 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to make his memory work < 1300477678 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you lost me there < 1300477708 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait it's a functor from C to Set < 1300477714 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes more sense < 1300477742 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Haskell, you continue to baffle me. < 1300477757 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an object Y in C is taken to the set hom_C(Y, X) < 1300477761 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you map an object Z to the set of morphisms from Z to X or what? < 1300477766 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1300477772 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, and let's see < 1300477834 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then if you have Z and Y in C, and morphism f : Z -> Y, then it goes to the set of morphisms you get by taking morphisms from Z to Y and adding a morphism from Y to X? < 1300477837 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean composing < 1300477856 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1300477865 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: why? < 1300477873 0 :Xuu!zuu@77.215.149.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300477876 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this covariance/contravariance thing is soooo complicated :D < 1300477878 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1300477891 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: not really, it's just functors on opposite categories < 1300477893 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right one of those hom's is contravariant < 1300477901 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, on hom functors < 1300477901 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to do unordered pairs, and I've just been told that (a ~ b) cannot be deduced. < 1300477906 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because... I don't even know. < 1300477912 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other covariant < 1300477918 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: unordered heterogeneous pairs? < 1300477927 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds pretty tricky :P < 1300477930 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define heterogene... oh, right. < 1300477931 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :homogeneous is easy < 1300477934 0 :Xuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1300477934 0 :Xuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1300477934 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hom(., X) is contravariant iirc < 1300477941 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :contrapumpkin < 1300477941 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1300477948 0 :Xuu!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Zuu < 1300477948 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I've used that many times in the past :) < 1300477952 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while hom(Y, .) is covariant < 1300477964 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that'll be why. < 1300477971 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah the functor on morphisms is just composition at the right side < 1300478033 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but which one is contra and which is co < 1300478037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: after all your and elliott's laughing about me about adding a computable-real type to C, I attended a seminar on Wednesday that demonstrated I wasn't talking nonsense after all < 1300478053 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't recall laughing < 1300478065 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i said that < 1300478072 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did? < 1300478074 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1300478085 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean what it means < 1300478093 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does contra/co mean, those terms tell me exactly as much as Hom(., X) and the other < 1300478125 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :covariant is the "usual" functor, sending morphisms to morphisms in the "same" direction < 1300478142 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :contravariant switches the direction of the morphism on the end < 1300478173 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300478176 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm well right < 1300478198 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you have a morphism f : A -> B, then F(f) : F(A) -> F(B) if it's covariant but F(f) : F(B) -> F(A) if it's contravariant < 1300478200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the seminar even contained infinitary operations for a good reason < 1300478206 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kinda obvious in the general case, but i can't seem to get it in this particular case with Set on the other end... < 1300478211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally, people just put infinitary operations in their languages to annoy my supervisor < 1300478259 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1300478260 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1300478268 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just arbitrary of course < 1300478270 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so if f : Y -> Z is a morphism in C, then since this is contravariant we want a morphism from Hom(Z, X) to Hom(Y, X) < 1300478278 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, wait no < 1300478286 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1300478298 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have CT seminars at my job every friday :) < 1300478300 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including today < 1300478330 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if g is in Hom(Z, X) then we use g . f < 1300478333 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1300478378 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall we used the notation f^*(g) (in LaTeX) < 1300478427 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and f_*(g) = f . g to make the other hom-functor Hom(Y, .) < 1300478445 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(composing on the other end) < 1300478459 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is covariant) < 1300478489 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION learned all this originally for categories of modules over rings < 1300478639 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i think i somewhat got what you said about naturality < 1300478646 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's still some work to do < 1300479183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay category theory < 1300479403 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yaaaaaaaaaaaay < 1300479859 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300479963 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i think i got it < 1300479972 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i did other stuff too :P) < 1300479981 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not much other stuff :() < 1300479991 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MATH IS HARD < 1300480006 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kinda hard to get all of these things in your head < 1300480023 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have two categories, and two functors, and Set and gah < 1300480033 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want category theory, I've implemented lots of fun stuff in agda < 1300480043 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the most general way possible, unlike previous attempts < 1300480057 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, https://github.com/pumpkin/categories/blob/master/Category/NaturalTransformation.agda#L98 < 1300480090 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also ##categorytheory :) < 1300480226 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure this would be perfectly easy on paper, but i still find natural transformations kinda hard to picture when they occur in a "concrete" situation < 1300480249 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the abstract definition is natural enough, so i'm sure i'd get it fast enough if i bumped into categories more often than ones every 2 months < 1300480257 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should've been at our seminar today! people were having the same trouble there and I think we got rid of it < 1300480267 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you and your seminars, copumpkin < 1300480271 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1300480276 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk actually leads them < 1300480289 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :figures < 1300480300 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, a you work with edwardk? < 1300480312 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have enough seminars to worry about as it is < 1300480317 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(one) < 1300480331 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: yeah < 1300480335 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy < 1300480341 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's sitting across from me right now < 1300480345 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1300480428 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could like, strangle him if you wanted to? < 1300480436 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds kinda risky < 1300480436 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1300480438 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's bigger than me < 1300480447 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay that explains it < 1300480539 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should leave the room quickly and quietly, there are recorded cases of humans attacking other humans for no apparent reasons < 1300480549 0 :hagb4rd|afk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1300480605 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so I should just avoid all other humans? < 1300480607 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general? < 1300480611 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a gourd anyway < 1300480613 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think I'm safe < 1300480664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you should leave the room quickly and quietly, there are recorded cases of humans attacking other humans for no apparent reason <--- I like this quote, but HackEgo isn't here < 1300480744 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: i'm not saying you have to avoid humans, just keep an eye on them at all times < 1300480777 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes copumpkin pie < 1300480792 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1300480800 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and carry some money in your pocket so you can distract males if they get aggressive < 1300480834 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ewww money < 1300480847 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does money not work on females? < 1300480873 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :females are a bit trickier < 1300480890 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@wb-dhcp2-7.wmiscable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300480894 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@wb-dhcp2-7.wmiscable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300480898 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oi! < 1300480901 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cookies! < 1300480902 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give! < 1300480922 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION steals copumpkin's cookies < 1300480930 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: spy! < 1300480950 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no! not a spy! < 1300480953 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION eats the last cookie < 1300480955 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an edwardk! < 1300480956 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooo < 1300480958 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cookie : < 1300480959 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( < 1300480960 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesh! < 1300480967 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mein cookie < 1300480990 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mein kampfy chair? < 1300481020 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1300481075 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chow mein kampf < 1300481086 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i aint chowin your kampf, gtfo < 1300481092 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :das nassy < 1300481466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1081926478 < 1300481472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just in case my computer crashes again) < 1300481501 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1981024678. < 1300481503 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got it. < 1300481506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1300481559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that's Wed Apr 14 08:07:58 BST 2004 < 1300481638 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a great moment < 1300481697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lasted a whole second < 1300482439 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Philosophy for Programmers" < 1300482445 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crap detector tripped. < 1300482589 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would read programming for philosophers < 1300482623 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1300482682 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo ais523: I notice you don't even add the quote when he reappears :P < 1300482684 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I notice you don't even add the quote when he reappears :P < 1300482690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1300482702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote you should leave the room quickly and quietly, there are recorded cases of humans attacking other humans for no apparent reason < 1300482703 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :336) you should leave the room quickly and quietly, there are recorded cases of humans attacking other humans for no apparent reason < 1300482706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was busy < 1300484436 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god Comic Relief is on < 1300484442 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already want to kick some babies. < 1300484471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been relatively unfunny this year < 1300487425 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/Music/03/14/dixie.chicks.reut/ < 1300487431 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two WTFs from the US in a day. < 1300488165 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.17/20110121150729] < 1300488873 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300489663 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1300490142 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1300490256 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1300490261 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did try out yoob. < 1300491049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you think of it? < 1300491135 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I think is there should be a "load graph" for noit o' mnain worb. That is, there is a row on the graph for each ! and the pixel is lit when there is any ball in that position and dark otherwise. < 1300491280 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300491299 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it seems you cannot edit unless you load an example first. < 1300492166 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1300492462 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not want all the features of Wayland, and some things I would like changed. If I make a Linux system I could make the changes. < 1300492724 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said before that Ubuntu would change to Wayland. So I should make up a bit different kind. < 1300492744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I doubt Ubuntu would be an ideal Linux distro for you anyway < 1300492769 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I would make my own distribution instead of using Ubuntu or any other one.