< 1300666057 781679 :cheater-!~cheater@g224200162.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300666240 934684 :cheater00!~cheater@g224200230.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300668929 627594 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-97.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300668938 543763 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-244-243.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1300669070 753057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300669620 524043 :clog!nef@bespin.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300670258 249213 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp, the libm.so auction has started. > 1300670583 490727 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300670597 716162 :glogbot!~glogbot@wb-dhcp2-7.wmiscable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300670777 157161 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300671004 391829 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1300672435 54883 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1300673325 351121 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given everybody else's ping timeouts, maybe my bots aren't actually doing anything wrong :P < 1300674156 362060 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1300674267 181035 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, I prefer SIRCL rather than the raw format that glogbot uses, but at least glogbot is not lying about the raw logs in the way that clog is doing. < 1300674313 284153 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does clog lie? < 1300674409 529898 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Do you have a description or example of SIRCL's format? < 1300674413 54775 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says 'These logs are purposely "raw" and are intended to be parsed/reformated/wrapped before viewing.' but it isn't raw. < 1300674489 514899 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :glogbot's raw format is not really meant to be readable, just bake-able. Its baked format could probably use some TLC. < 1300674512 917068 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Very simple. UNIX timestamp, TAB, and then the message, terminated by CRLF (always CRLF, LF only is not allowed). Metadata commands have no TAB and have an asterisk as the first character of the line (before the timestamp, if any). Here is an actual log created in that format: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/irc_log/ADMIN/1291325292 < 1300674587 746909 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that that lines up the messages does make it more readable I'll admit. < 1300674662 767509 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I chose my format to 1) distinguish outgoing messages since it does in fact send messages out on requests, 2) have the totally-unnecessary added precision of gettimeofday and 3) use space delimitation for the simple reason that IRC is already space-delimited (modulo the :-to-EOL rule) < 1300674788 464099 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIRCL format is not intended to be more or less readable than any others, it is just a way that makes sense to me. It uses TAB only after the timestamp; IRC commands are delimited with spaces and colons as normal. The TAB separates the timestamp from the message. It requires CRLF the same as the IRC prtoocol specification says it is. You are not required to use this format; but I do have it. < 1300674933 295386 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My log reformatter is extremely-lazily-written, and tokenizes my entire raw-format line as if it was an IRC message, so having spaces saves me one utterly-minor step X-P < 1300674937 576077 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also note these logs are created directly by the server, so in this case there is no need to distinguish send/receive, it simply logs everything that any client on that channel would receive. One way to use it in client logging if wanted, is to omit the sender part for sent messages. This format also supports metadata, although any program that creates or parses this format is not required to write or use it.) < 1300674951 249777 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: O, that makes sense, if that is how you wrote it. < 1300675450 958891 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would, however, have the filenames a bit different: The raws have no extension (also no "-raw"), while the formatted ones formatted as HTML with the ".html" extension. So, for example, you would have "2011-03-20" and "2011-03-20.html" files. At least that is my opinion; you do not have to agree. But at least I like that you actually have raw logs, unlike clog. < 1300675519 844579 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have considered making HTML ones ... the fact that the raw ones have a "-raw.txt" extension is because in my delusional imagination I postulate that the primary audience cares more about the baked logs, so marking the raw logs as "Here there be dragons" doesn't hurt *shrugs* < 1300675747 876660 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANNOUNCEMENT: I am a superstitious ninny who unplugs my laptop from mains when there's a thunderstorm. Boo me. < 1300675812 706371 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-203-90.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300675825 574165 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-97.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1300675867 639381 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should add a PM command to glogbot that makes it so it notices you the last few lines when you join a channel. Opt-in of course. < 1300675920 653459 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-203-90.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND IT'S ALL MY FAULT < 1300675964 44528 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have invented SIRCL as a possible standard format for IRC logs. < 1300675993 176226 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, perhaps PRIVMSG glogbot :TAIL 12 for 12 lines, and put 0 to disable it. < 1300676018 721442 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION strongly considers this notion ... < 1300676069 694131 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There really also ought to be STATUS and HELP commands, even if you have no TAIL command like this. < 1300676111 779539 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what status would do, and there is !glogbot_help, although I could just as well make it respond to more in PM *shrugs* < 1300676200 240960 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel weird < 1300676200 241073 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm "helping" someone with chemistry by turning chemistry problems into.. stuff about marbles < 1300676452 226454 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In PM perhaps it would respond even if "!glogbot_" is not prefixed? And STATUS would display the URL as well as number of channels, possibly data rate and so on? Perhaps some option that the inviter can select whether or not commands sent to the channel are recognized? Some might want the log but not want it to recognize commands sent to the channel, which is why the channel operator should be able to turn it off somehow? < 1300676568 738552 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps if the channel operator sets channel mode +q glogbot!*@* then it will ignore commands sent to the channel completely... it could be implemented by having glogbot attempt to send a NOTICE with the log URL to the channel immediately after being invited....? < 1300676673 999780 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You receive a 404 if you send when you have +q that way it can check. < 1300676778 921325 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What purpose is there in ignoring messages sent to the channel? It always responds with a personal NOTICE now, so it is not the one disturbing the peace. < 1300676822 658334 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: In case you want a channel without bot commands, or if there is confliction. So, two reasons. < 1300676907 380643 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At least.) < 1300676978 511718 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I think that making it send the NOTICE with the URL and checking for 404, solves two problems at once. But that is just my opinion. > 1300677116 670465 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300677127 689198 :glogbot!~glogbot@wb-dhcp2-7.wmiscable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300677132 384626 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just doesn't check for errors. < 1300677166 211991 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, now it accepts truncated commands via PM :) < 1300677182 391997 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... and hopefully not directly, as I shall test thusly: < 1300677182 777991 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1300677194 880422 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/directly/in a channel/ < 1300677227 579281 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1300677416 55839 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now it has a passive-aggressive !glogbot_status command :) < 1300677461 502394 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I can see that works. < 1300678462 99245 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, I wonder, should they implement a NS SET MODE command? < 1300678534 934035 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can ask them maybe if they know < 1300678597 775428 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or NS HELP < 1300678660 383195 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, should < 1300678660 758658 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/m < 1300680870 817467 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1300680927 624230 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-203-90.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaand the US cellphone market gets smaller still. < 1300680936 99893 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-203-90.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AT&T to buy T-Mobile. < 1300680976 805409 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1300680978 105272 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-203-90.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This will leave us with precisely *one* GSM carrier in the US, as well. < 1300680996 224877 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not think one is enough? < 1300681016 355514 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-203-90.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And three majors carriers overall. < 1300681038 900684 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-203-90.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ma Bell is coming back. < 1300681071 523834 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it doesn't affect me, I do not use cellular telephones anyways. < 1300681100 35585 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-203-90.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AT&T, Verizon, and Sprint. < 1300681170 675097 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-203-90.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I should specify; they're buying T-Mobile US; no overseas operations. < 1300681277 991357 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I live in Canada, but regardless of where I live I still do not use cellular phone. < 1300681703 354059 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe later I will write more TeX programs, such as macros to make calendar, mailing labels, barcodes, and more. All designed to be used with Plain TeX, DVI output, and no DVI specials. < 1300682100 988778 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many other packages are LaTeX only, PDF only, Type 1 fonts only, e-TeX only, or require external "makeindex" program, DVI specials, SVG, PostScript, or something else. So now I make the one that does not require anything special. < 1300684258 875357 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh crap :( guess that means my cell phone bill is going up lol < 1300684975 433559 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-218.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300685140 875650 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-203-90.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1300685709 933684 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@093105167222.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1300685937 629826 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too bad!!! < 1300687803 313342 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@093105167222.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1300688382 170101 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.11 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300689245 577140 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-182-45.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300689304 746653 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-218.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1300692061 372160 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300692758 57032 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1300694891 270192 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300695449 997892 :cheater99!~cheater@e181130179.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300695501 138662 :cheater-!~cheater@g224200162.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1300695681 695954 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1300695864 910766 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1300696329 740314 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300696528 133434 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300696826 568947 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300698514 22475 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1300698807 958500 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300699185 777338 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-182-45.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1300699268 653151 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-212-103.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300703999 856991 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1300704096 817343 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION laughs at today's xkcd hovertext < 1300704208 713629 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wat < 1300704242 731389 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :SORRY I CANNOT HEAR YOU < 1300706041 973976 :cheater00!~cheater@e181128255.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300706120 906288 :cheater99!~cheater@e181130179.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300706846 307769 :iconmaster_!~rooms@dsl-66-115-77-61.bbr0.brdtny.empacc.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300707025 179688 :iconmaster_!~rooms@dsl-66-115-77-61.bbr0.brdtny.empacc.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1300707848 898209 :Slereah!~buttes@ANantes-259-1-53-235.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300708203 579380 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-11-51.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1300708619 118984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1300708752 525310 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300709053 15175 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: today's xkcd is quite good generally < 1300709093 126083 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE < 1300709132 863890 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1300709167 710059 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300709204 136373 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1300709657 481346 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1300709900 526224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300710185 251037 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.251.165.38 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1300710287 877658 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.251.165.38 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300710347 907359 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm talking of today's xkcd. Is there any special significance to the year 2017? As opposed to any other ones in the near future < 1300710359 430650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1300710371 205701 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 6 years from now is about the right timespan for the joke to work < 1300710377 617307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe 5 or 7 would have worked too < 1300710390 798248 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1300710403 746361 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :just thought it might be some movie reference or such < 1300710442 964558 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-11-51.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT : < 1300710498 540970 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a solar eclipse, that's all I can think of. The year-to-reference would have probably been 2012, but that's both overdone and a bit too soon. < 1300710527 506901 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, where is that eclipse? < 1300710550 618023 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Them Americans have it, I think. < 1300710556 879942 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1300710601 19841 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_eclipse_of_August_21,_2017 < 1300710607 586258 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goes right through North America there. < 1300710660 258300 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't that page have one of those "this article is about an upcoming event" kind of boilerplate < 1300710670 100933 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember wikipedia has that variant as well < 1300710767 487509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's basically put there in order to prevent idiots writing things into the article that makes no sense < 1300710844 829650 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? Such as wrong tense? < 1300710882 597867 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Future seems to have been deleted. < 1300710888 553068 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's mostly to stop people writing vandalism about future events as if they've already happened/already known, then other people believing it as it's Wikipedia < 1300710891 588773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how often that happens < 1300710947 395034 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :deleted three times, but first time seems to be via WP:CENT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Centralized_discussion/Deprecating_%22Future%22_templates < 1300710971 140017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that WP:CENT is actually a deletion process, but I don't think anyone cares; it's heavier-weight than most deletion processes, so probably falls under IAR) < 1300711051 563621 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"then other people believing it as it's Wikipedia" <-- it is strange that happens really < 1300711069 352164 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oha and what is IAR? < 1300711073 390000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore all rules < 1300711081 118167 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1300711082 729504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are huge debates on how to actually interpret it < 1300711088 906816 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300711109 957492 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, presumably you could just ignore IAR and be done with it < 1300711148 626334 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although my interpretation is more or less that a) if nobody disagrees with an action, you can do it regardless of what policy says (WP:BOLD's along those lines, too); b) the spirit of the rules are more important than the letter; c) documented rules lag behind accepted practice (i.e. it becomes accepted /then/ it's documented), so it's OK to break an old rule if Wikipedia has moved on since < 1300711150 76217 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but more seriously, isn't it to avoid getting stuck on rules when they are clearly suggesting a bad/stupid way forward? < 1300711201 903293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a special case, but an important one < 1300711228 88401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the case here, "you can delete a page via WP:CENT even though it isn't a deletion process" seems a perfectly valid use of IAR < 1300711249 376541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that it sort-of trumps other processes, in that it would be a reasonable way to change deletion process < 1300711262 483355 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1300711313 484110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, tl;dr of the CENT discussion about {{future}}: it was meant to be a warning that the page was being heavily edited as details came out, but wasn't actually being used that way < 1300711353 182953 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1300711365 583307 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: There was a {{future}} in the article "29th century". < 1300711370 963517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the way it was being used was entirely useless < 1300711376 723326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, that's a good example < 1300711391 824156 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlikely to have more details coming out rapidly, causing a flurry of edits, on that example! < 1300711530 2091 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mere existence of that article is pretty ridiculous < 1300711561 61281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, isn't the 29th century more notable than (insert favourite example of niche Wikipedia article here)? < 1300711581 1226 :cheater00!~cheater@e181128255.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, wikipaedia woes < 1300711670 120668 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, probably :P < 1300711868 776903 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The CPR [Canadian Pacific Railway] obtained a 999-year lease on the O&Q [Ontario and Quebeck Railway] on January 4, 1884. -- The CPR also leased the New Brunswick Railway in 1890 for 990 years, --" Why exactly a bit less than thousand years (as opposed to some other ludicrous number), I wonder. < 1300711898 981546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because 1000 would have looked too large, it's the same principle as charging £9.99 in shops < 1300711908 91473 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A 999-year lease is, under historic common law, essentially a nominal lease of property for life. The lease locations are mainly in Britain, her former colonies and Commonwealth. The longest possible term of a lease of real property is legally a 99-year lease." < 1300711919 752620 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figures that there is an article for "999-year lease" specifically. < 1300712011 46421 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not a *good* article, though.) < 1300712907 371269 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1300713493 832413 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving > 1300713781 411980 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300713794 658367 :glogbot!~glogbot@wb-dhcp2-7.wmiscable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300714053 582009 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arghwtfbbq < 1300714058 556941 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't these guys stay pinged in. < 1300714083 561487 :cheater00!~cheater@e181128255.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :naja < 1300714404 911837 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4d0b7704.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300714480 245234 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what is glogbot? < 1300714597 135986 :cheater00!~cheater@e181128255.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not optbot < 1300714617 982274 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, that one < 1300714629 451184 :cheater00!~cheater@e181128255.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it replaced optbot < 1300714749 762387 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :In no way has it "replaced" optbot, since it doesn't serve the same function >_> < 1300714933 433136 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, there is a typo in the topic. Might be intentional < 1300714970 715524 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, PH set the topic < 1300714971 723448 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1300714972 160148 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason PH decided that Roman...ism and socialism are the same thing. < 1300714988 581612 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"GLORIOVS" yeah, how strange < 1300715164 938284 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, glogbot is exactly what it sounds like. < 1300715180 203134 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, a gnu or gnome logging bot :P < 1300715184 63185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a typo in ancient Latin, except it probably isn't a real word in ancient Latin < 1300715186 530098 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pff < 1300715192 279922 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, oh gregor :P < 1300715254 728863 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, Gregor Compiler Collection < 1300715262 141965 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could make that < 1300715268 483073 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of your various languages < 1300715310 597138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be egologbot if it were Gregor's < 1300715324 125201 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh true, so it must be gnu then < 1300715327 490532 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly gnome < 1300715328 358807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: assertion may contradict reality) < 1300715350 383472 :cheater00!~cheater@e181128255.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ymmv? < 1300715381 691266 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ego" is for esorelated things. < 1300715405 997643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a #esoteric logbot isn't esorelated? < 1300715443 738720 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a general-purpose logbot that just so happens to be being used on #esoteric . < 1300715526 357191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile: http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/03/identifying_photocopy_machine.html < 1300715530 637767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-eso, but pretty funny < 1300715535 357053 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if you like silly legal situations < 1300715560 666416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically a case where someone tried to answer a question about if there was a photocopier in an office, by repeatedly asking the questioning lawyer to define a photocopier < 1300715825 115423 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : meanwhile: http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/03/identifying_photocopy_machine.html <-- wtf < 1300715828 910671 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is that a joke? < 1300715857 234253 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1300715860 671701 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my < 1300715875 478327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not even particularly silly by the standards of typical court cases < 1300715882 646103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it makes a change from SCO < 1300715934 857769 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1300715947 2235 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, SCO is still going at it? < 1300715955 503410 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-212-103.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1300715961 369800 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd expect them to have stopped? < 1300715980 380216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they recently managed to get a bankruptcy judge to approve them selling all their assets but only a very small number of liabities < 1300715983 533540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*liabilities < 1300715987 202331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, they're bankrupt on paper, again < 1300716012 263304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in terms of technically owning a negative amount of cash, not that that seems impossible in bankruptcy court as you can delay payments < 1300716024 529210 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they're legally bankrupt already, in that they declared bankruptcy years ago now) < 1300716036 919554 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: lololol @ "Xerox" < 1300716037 548349 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, aren't there time limits on that sort of stuff < 1300716050 38890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, and they've been extended/broken repeatedly < 1300716061 23013 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-234-28.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300716069 170737 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, aren't there limits on how many times an extension can be granted? < 1300716082 624011 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I can't figure out if the person in question was a) an idiot, b) trolling, c) serious < 1300716094 307227 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although b) would be epic < 1300716109 461001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the CEO of the company was removed and replaced with a bankrupcy-court-appointed trustee < 1300716119 966168 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who kept on doing exactly the same thing the removed CEO had been doing < 1300716126 414928 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that sounds very strange < 1300716136 553928 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/trustee/puppet/ < 1300716142 97890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: this is /SCO/ we're talking about < 1300716149 257574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could it not be? < 1300716158 906515 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, who would find a glogbot "tail" mode useful? (That is, when you join it sends you in a NOTICE the last few messages on the channel) < 1300716175 423213 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure whether it's worth implementing, since it has some risk of flooding itself into oblivion :P < 1300716180 490599 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, don't they realize it must be futile to continue? < 1300716183 116181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd find that vaguely useful, although not sufficiently useful to insist someone else should implement it < 1300716186 341818 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be opt-in, at least < 1300716189 754197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll help to reduce flooding < 1300716194 521032 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Of course opt-in < 1300716196 826828 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good lawd opt-in < 1300716205 89662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm not sure < 1300716217 138928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems futile from the point of view of saving SCO, but that doesn't seem to be the actual objective < 1300716224 190009 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it may be accomplishing whatever the actual objective is quite well < 1300716227 615873 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what would the objective be then < 1300716241 118795 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows? < 1300716250 480626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there's enough money moving around, that someone probably ends up benefiting as a result < 1300716258 62027 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1300716263 823717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure who, as I lost track < 1300716273 730858 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1300716279 848126 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least the bankruptcy lawyers seem to be being paid. < 1300716285 973933 :cheater-!~cheater@g224202061.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300716300 931892 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't they have a negative amount of money? < 1300716319 871985 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so where would they get money from, surely lending it would be hard for them... < 1300716343 282472 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there have been people lending them money, perhaps surprisingly < 1300716378 978680 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They did also have some positive money at the beginning of the banruptcy process. At least if you don't count the amount they owe to Novell. < 1300716408 231485 :cheater00!~cheater@e181128255.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300716413 705916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not quite "owe", it was found that the money was "converted" from Novell, so it technically owns to Novell, just it's currently in SCO's ownership < 1300716424 333529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it isn't, because they already spent it < 1300716438 685087 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "converted"? < 1300716445 187911 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that mean in this context < 1300716458 552730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's a legal term, I'm not quite sure what it means exactly, but it seems to have a similar meaning to "stolen", or perhaps "defrauded" < 1300716465 695317 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1300716471 143126 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Ocean Park Advisors have been billing them for about $30000/month for 16 months now. < 1300716513 272936 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly for planning and implementing the mythical "restructuring plan". < 1300716586 249639 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote ais523, "converted"? what does that mean in this context Vorpal: it's a legal term, I'm not quite sure what it means exactly, but it seems to have a similar meaning to "stolen", or perhaps "defrauded" < 1300716588 729662 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@wb-dhcp2-7.wmiscable.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :337) ais523, "converted"? what does that mean in this context Vorpal: it's a legal term, I'm not quite sure what it means exactly, but it seems to have a similar meaning to "stolen", or perhaps "defrauded" < 1300716600 343560 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, why was that quote-worthy? < 1300716670 172545 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because lawl with emphasis on "law" < 1300716676 751554 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1300716684 858340 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The $30k figure was based on a quick look at the recent bills; seems that the early ones were rather larger, $196,002.50 for the first six weeks and so.) < 1300716708 368860 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the chances of those ever being repaid seems to be about zero? < 1300716715 537632 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1300716741 624986 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I think those have been paid, more or less; which is probably one of the reasons why SCO no longer has any of the money it was loaned. < 1300716755 611961 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly SCO has done quite well for themselves. < 1300716797 308199 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the loan was secured against everything the company owned, more or less < 1300716811 177644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if it defaults, I'm not entirely sure what will happen, but it could be quite interesting < 1300716825 131525 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1300716828 229580 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually isn't today Novell's last day to appeal for the UnXis sale? < 1300716835 656120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bonus points if SCO manages to get multiple loans secured against the same assets) < 1300716837 144231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it may be < 1300716845 226804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think they'll appeal? < 1300716922 959695 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have guessed "yes" if it was just Novell, but I don't know how much the Novell/Attachmate thing changes the matter. < 1300717114 423697 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I haven't been following the whole thing very closely, just read the groklaw posts; those make the sale sound pretty dubious indeed. < 1300717210 315381 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1300717291 627445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300717311 227985 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm dealing with a system that uses 0 for true, non-0 for false < 1300717332 976709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what value should I use, concretely, for false? atm I'm doing -1 as it's easy to write as "not true" in two's complement < 1300717342 694608 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, what value should I use for FILE_NOT_FOUND?) < 1300717732 699256 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a language/environment where 0 is true, and also you have a bitwise not operator? < 1300717738 855052 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this HellScript? < 1300717826 828532 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's what happens when mathematicians try to project their idealized views on programming languages into the real world < 1300717837 47687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, this is #esoteric, is having 0 for true and bitwise-not /that/ bad? < 1300717918 50296 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 is used as true in math? < 1300717921 715006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1300717928 324562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no number is < 1300717936 164301 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the language just chose the "wrong" mapping < 1300717939 836105 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well 1 is often used as true, and 0 as false < 1300717967 916790 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i used 1 as true, 0 as false around 15 minutes ago < 1300718189 103805 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then again i suppose i could've just not thought of the 1 as true < 1300718227 140330 :cheater-!~cheater@g224202061.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl, as if web 2.0 wasn't bad enough.. now i have found a company which says they're an expert in Enterprise 2.0. < 1300718243 558355 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that < 1300718252 150098 :cheater-!~cheater@g224202061.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like WANs and shit < 1300718260 64961 :cheater-!~cheater@g224202061.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :any sort of job you don't want to do :D < 1300718328 34270 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1300718392 26553 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not very hard to find a job i don't want to do < 1300718439 790987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many of those jobs could you successfully apply for, though/ < 1300718479 461870 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure i could get any job i wanted to by just going to the interview and telling them i'm the awesome < 1300718494 415308 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i can even juggle" < 1300719157 407627 :cheater-!~cheater@g224202061.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww, i just called someone and they told me off for calling them in the office < 1300719322 363480 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1300719370 853357 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1300719534 204024 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1300719958 846277 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1300720137 964465 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1300720316 811207 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1300720638 590976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, the instructions for these pills don't have a "what to do if you need eight tries to swallow them whole and manage to spit half a bottle of water onto the floor in the process" < 1300720669 702974 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I often have trouble with the mechanical aspects of getting a pill down my throat, but that was just ridiculous < 1300720672 933531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, my trousers are wet now < 1300720700 967367 :cheater-!~cheater@g224202061.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300720707 225940 :cheater00!~cheater@g229029229.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300720749 383545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any relevant advice? < 1300720767 398200 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :practise < 1300720787 917271 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I can only really practice once every eight hours < 1300720799 840308 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can practise swallowing other things tho < 1300720805 914119 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I fear dire things might happen to me if I screw up even worse than that, e.g. biting it in half by mistake < 1300720812 494605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are not many things around designed to be swallowed whole < 1300720836 992136 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about grapes? < 1300720849 486596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people swallow those whole? < 1300720854 836690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fear I'd choke if I tried, they seem rather large < 1300720855 28470 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think they do < 1300720881 632600 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i doubt it's very hard < 1300720987 763138 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://google.com/search?q=learn+to+deep+throat THERE YA GO < 1300721001 255968 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :deep throating isn't very hard either < 1300721005 801990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I doubt that link's going to turn up a lot of relevant stuff, even with safesearch on < 1300721012 535102 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: THIS IS WHY PEOPLE THINK HE'S GAY < 1300721045 988653 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can control most reflexes with a bit of practise, but i can't seem to get autoblinking off no matter what i do < 1300721060 444276 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i spent hours and hours on this last summer < 1300721068 562885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is more an antireflex < 1300721081 262016 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end, I managed it this time by reaching all the way back into my mouth and physically inserting the pill there < 1300721096 341685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :both it and my mouth were so wet after the previous failures that it actually fell right down < 1300721101 645193 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1300721141 541863 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-192-242.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300721147 941064 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-234-28.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1300721172 710678 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :any of you tried drinking without swallowing? that would be a neat thing to learn, but since you can die of it afaik, i haven't had the guts to go trial and error < 1300721176 423075 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : in the end, I managed it this time by reaching all the way back into my mouth and physically inserting the [censored] there both it and my mouth were so wet after the previous failures that it actually fell right down :P < 1300721202 791174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: a sort of controlled drowning? < 1300721241 731561 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the liquid goes in your stomach < 1300721270 188017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I just wanted to say "controlled drowning" < 1300721282 77343 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should waterboard yourself. < 1300721285 911179 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how that's guaranteed, i don't know, i imagine if you just go for it, you prolly either succeed, or nothing goes down. < 1300721288 996057 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like the ideal solution. < 1300721301 897845 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never quite got how waterboarding could be dangerous < 1300721316 731660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's physically dangerous, more it's the psychological issues < 1300721322 826904 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be nice to try that some time, but the serious brain injury part puts me off a bit < 1300721334 28792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly it wouldn't < 1300721354 830286 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't like risks < 1300721363 407575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I imagine waterboaring /yourself/ would cause different issues than someone else doing it to you < 1300721365 623705 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but drowning sounds like an interesting experience < 1300721392 177822 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was it they did on tosh.0, orange-juice-boarding or something < 1300721400 934850 :Slereah!~buttes@ANantes-259-1-11-51.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1300721403 981723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably triggering the body's drown reflex could be dangerous, too < 1300721431 379515 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the body actually have a "drowning" reflex per se? < 1300721431 904933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that there's also a case where someone consented to be waterboarded, and afterwards decided it was life-runing torture despite being consented to and sued < 1300721434 464876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it does < 1300721451 978060 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a horrible thought that i have this whole set of drowning related feelings built in, and i never get to experience them < 1300721453 136178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :freedivers learn to trigger it deliberately < 1300721465 329656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use it to hold their breath for several minutes at a time < 1300721497 375789 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds ... safe. < 1300721507 649837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps oklopol could learn to do that too < 1300721507 711169 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote it's a horrible thought that i have this whole set of drowning related feelings built in, and i never get to experience them < 1300721508 211786 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@wb-dhcp2-7.wmiscable.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :338) it's a horrible thought that i have this whole set of drowning related feelings built in, and i never get to experience them < 1300721523 571738 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly sounds cool < 1300721551 583916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, humans have an ability that can only be triggered unconciously to use all their muscle fibers at once (typically they only use about 1/6 or so, because using more does permanent damage) < 1300721576 488558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people who are panicking sufficiently sometimes do it and do really implausible things as a result, like lifting trees < 1300721591 284652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(presumably, which aren't attached to the ground at the time, and are quite large, or it wouldn't be implausible) < 1300721630 544862 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah because lifting trees that are attached to the ground isn't hard at all < 1300721640 375963 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it would be impressive < 1300721646 98168 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but more implausible than I'm easily willing to consider < 1300721652 969022 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the roots go "hey cool i get to see the sun" and help you lift it < 1300721684 778233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not what roots are /for/ < 1300721686 638381 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still alive at that point, so it's a willing participant. < 1300721690 214947 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just climbs out of the ground. < 1300721707 14618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like your heart deciding it wants to do some thinking for a bit, and swapping places with your brain < 1300721717 477107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a nice metaphor, but seems unlikely if taken literally < 1300721740 661354 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hormones can cause behavior, and are carried in the blood :P < 1300721770 430066 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, suddenly you start beating your head against the wall every second or so. and spout fluids everywhere. < 1300721821 667408 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how about someone who can actually lift an incredible amount of shit < 1300721835 588344 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if their dog is sick and they get all hulk < 1300721838 575659 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :can they lift houses? < 1300721850 56663 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do they already use more than the healthy amount of their muscles < 1300721888 517720 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, to be perfectly clear ... < 1300721898 40879 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their dog usually produces like 75lb turds < 1300721906 42269 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which they carry to the bin with no effort at all < 1300721924 742772 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's an interesting concept otherwise: you train doing X all your life, and you actually had the theoretical possibility of doing X even better, before you even started learning it < 1300721925 58561 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their dog is now sick and has filled their entire house with dark-matter shit. < 1300721966 500933 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's roughly what i meant < 1300721977 190733 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how it works with athletes < 1300722013 438669 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSO VULCANS < 1300722027 487340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think possibly the training strengthens their muscles so they can safely use a larger proportion < 1300722035 524815 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :vulcans don't have pets < 1300722049 270973 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that sounds likely < 1300722111 843244 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also often they sniff that what's that stuff before lifting stuff < 1300722124 847282 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm proud of my sentences < 1300722162 309423 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@093105167222.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1300722254 147772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder how easy it would be to statistically predict who said a given sentence based on things like word choice and order? < 1300722267 539925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a game we used to play with optbot sometimes last time it was round here < 1300722273 27269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and seems relatively automatable < 1300722322 220777 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can usually spot my own rather easily, i'm usually the ones that make me laugh < 1300722357 994915 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: ENTERTAIN US < 1300722358 430102 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: a linear algebra course and fnord by reading euclid. but now it is < 1300722371 495775 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a bit hard. < 1300722387 750612 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: ENTERTAIN US MORE! < 1300722388 365090 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: lack of sensible fnord. then you can choose from major and minor alternatively is kinda cool right mabye you should put in a good language for teaching purposes, it seems < 1300722397 434423 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1300722411 332517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The copied elements that contain instructions, such as BREAD and CPIO, might perhaps be trade secrets, but Defendants' experts have argued persuasively that these instructions are either in the public domain or otherwise exempt." < 1300722413 814878 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FnordScript < 1300722460 177974 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ? < 1300722485 157781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it's a quote from the BSD court case (where it was determined that BSD UNIX wasn't a trade secret) < 1300722501 108667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I thought cpio was a tar competitor, and who calls an instruction BREAD? < 1300722510 578223 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, what's BREAD X-D < 1300722512 901603 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :b-read maybe? < 1300722528 176020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1300722614 775764 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I did do some authorship attribution experiments on #esoteric logs (using code we did for guessing book authors on a "statistical NLP" course); given a large enough sample it did reasonable, despite being bog-stupid, but single comments not so well. < 1300722637 695981 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unsurprising since the features were word-length statistics and such.) < 1300722705 771704 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :APNIC down 0.13: 16k to Taiwan, 1k to Indonesia, 640k(512k+128k)+1280k(1M+256k)+512k+128k to China, 4k+2k+256+/48 to India, 4k to Vietnam, 4k to Australia, 256 to Philippines. < 1300722706 559207 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some author-discriminating features (attribution/punctuation styles and such) would probably help. < 1300722712 641425 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Why are you making fun of bogs? < 1300722736 611239 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 'Cause they're not so smart. < 1300722757 854214 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I've got a bog that could beat you in Chinese Checkers seven times out of twelve! < 1300722793 569954 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not hard: even I can beat myself that often. < 1300722807 329328 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'll bet you "beat" yourself that often. < 1300722868 385920 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty quiet day there. Only 7% of their pool gone in single day. < 1300722881 463151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1300722887 560112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300723041 205336 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1300723045 559557 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey how about a bot < 1300723049 663672 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that like < 1300723056 938141 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :every time anyone says anything < 1300723061 309548 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tells who it thinks said it < 1300723068 51686 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... best idea ever. < 1300723070 510654 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1300723084 761796 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall implement it, and call it AnnoyingSpammerBot < 1300723095 35107 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could do it in pm if you've put that feature on < 1300723111 337251 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sometimes on the channel if it's REALLY sure < 1300723111 537371 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could do it in CTCP CHAT :P < 1300723117 88732 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(DCC) < 1300723123 323518 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey how about < 1300723127 385 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sends you a text message < 1300723135 50425 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : hew how about oklopol said that! < 1300723184 100952 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey seriously, this has to happen < 1300723191 53348 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300723510 863892 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1300723517 17351 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is it done soon? < 1300723520 459347 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, Gregor: should it just look at the nick or should it instead do some heuristic on the text? Matching writing style I mean < 1300723531 141207 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Gregor, if he has some algo for it easily handable < 1300723536 14534 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-3-165.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300723541 32234 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1300723546 434989 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what do you think lol < 1300723550 464310 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1300723559 689504 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, the latter < 1300723568 534694 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :latter < 1300723575 805132 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Gregor is more of a guy who does; I'm both busy and in a bus, and the other assorted excuses. < 1300723585 476009 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1300723612 662909 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: those "excuses" are just an excuse < 1300723622 829973 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see right through you < 1300723642 19477 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, I've become invisible? < 1300723692 760129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300723728 86644 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes < 1300724017 458540 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, damn, I thought they'd fixed that bug. < 1300724654 649283 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300724759 837094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1300724791 620634 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1300724839 902179 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1300725262 294821 :Wamanuz4!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1300725384 814325 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1300725835 898985 :boily!~boily@poste103-170.wl.t.ulaval.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1300725937 996967 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1300725938 264929 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1300725938 534678 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1300725938 776599 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1300725959 463658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1300726034 331387 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300726111 153539 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1300726177 793932 :boily!~boily@poste103-170.wl.t.ulaval.ca QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1300726332 509820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1300726356 287895 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300726668 49913 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ? < 1300726677 911925 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1300726778 576993 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1300726873 149545 :cal153!~cal@70.36.237.178 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300727015 560954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300727987 709452 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly syntax based on something I read on Reddit: \lambda x.expr = \frac{expr}{x} < 1300728026 539534 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sort of bastard half child of Lambda Calculus is this? < 1300728077 518183 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's based on the classic exam fail of thinking cos x/x = cos. < 1300728086 158562 :Slereah!~buttes@ANantes-259-1-11-51.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1300728111 616971 :Slereah!~buttes@ANantes-259-1-11-51.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda x.x = x² lambda < 1300728144 864650 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what algebraic structures are preserved. < 1300728166 131063 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300728174 521679 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Commutativity clearly isn't. < 1300728250 733361 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'M AFRAID < 1300728289 183395 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139144.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300728312 749192 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, x^2/x /= x. < 1300728369 123575 :cheater00!~cheater@g229029229.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300728966 909751 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-182-111.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300728975 68856 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-192-242.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1300730425 859077 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-182-111.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1300730440 335876 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-199-70.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300730761 915004 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As scale of things going on with APNIC: 14 more days like today will deplete APNIC. And what happened today wasn't so extraordinary: 3 of 5 business days last week saw much greater activity. < 1300731231 323125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300731681 154944 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1300731879 696986 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.11 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300731889 651978 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1300732630 38712 :BOI-ish!~quassel@adsl-85-124-213.mco.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300732757 958151 :BOI-ish!~quassel@adsl-85-124-213.mco.bellsouth.net PART #esoteric :"ciao." < 1300732904 71950 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-199-70.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Jeeze. < 1300733005 474549 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300733027 165512 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last week: 0.76 blocks gone. Oh, and there are only 1.71 left. < 1300733092 83544 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, starting to fragment: The largest free block is 1M (which there is only 1 of). < 1300733168 87051 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :28 748 288 addresses in 2 287 blocks. < 1300733259 737909 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not counting 103.0/8) < 1300733357 390918 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logaritmic size: /7.223 < 1300733417 62450 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Up from /7.120 before today. So +0.103. < 1300733422 215415 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139144.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1300733826 670195 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300733892 950074 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: you know what would be a really nice addition to the Mycology readme? A copy of the complete expected output for a compliant interpreter. < 1300733901 484204 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it really easy to allocate blocks in a way that avoids fragmentation, as long as they aren't expanded later? < 1300733918 93899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: there's a bunch of UNDEFs, so you couldn't just use diff < 1300733989 444 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. Linux sure nowadays has lots of kernel threads: 98 for me. < 1300734014 320053 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I realize that. Though now that you mention it, I'm not sure why undefined cases are even being tested. < 1300734039 83004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's to inform the user of what the case does < 1300734056 326934 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-174-126.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300734083 530271 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a nice thought, but it's not a test. < 1300734085 349846 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-199-70.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1300734184 983652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it /is/ a test, isn't it? < 1300734320 630620 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not if a test either passes or fails. < 1300735215 431202 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just saying, there's an argument for putting undefined-behavior-probing in other source file(s), and not mixing them into an otherwise unambiguous test suite. < 1300735277 326406 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And for my purposes, I can just download a copy of cfunge and see its output, since it doesn't fail out anywhere according to the results page. Hopefully easier than installing D and cmake and such :) < 1300735507 260275 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1300735552 671099 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, except for the "checking it out using yet another different source-control tool" part. I am not at all sure bazaar > D < 1300735684 90328 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're sort of both hell. < 1300736804 727341 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300736975 473624 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1300737772 924560 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is something deeply wack with FBBI's stack management routines. This is not news. What is news is, I think I see what it is. < 1300737818 811153 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, why does this coffee taste like whole wheat? That's very disturbing. < 1300737911 46054 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-174-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps it's actually mugicha (麦茶)? < 1300737988 540978 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1300738007 150116 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:22:24: * Phantom_Hoover wonders what algebraic structures are preserved. < 1300738007 321328 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:22:46: * azaq23 has joined #esoteric. < 1300738024 520462 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i think it would be a good idea not to use * for non-emotes, it's confusing < 1300738053 506401 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-174-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks Gregor should use an irssi-esque output format < 1300738071 868219 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-174-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would entail only using * for emotes. < 1300738087 282800 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-174-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-!- for non-PRIVMSG stuff. < 1300738090 793814 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has joined #esoteric. < 1300738097 477224 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUCK ON THAT, LOGREADERS < 1300738138 571385 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-174-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: He also has logs that are essentially a filtered dump of raw IRC traffic, with times prepended. < 1300738463 209625 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-208.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300738586 137244 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-174-126.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1300738933 356919 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300739159 539291 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sets mode #esoteric +b oklopol < 1300739191 126631 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@093105167222.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1300739258 747969 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there an interesting 'collection oriented' language that is not apl/j/k? < 1300739266 201081 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are <- is < 1300739271 111080 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300739284 320309 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :set theory. < 1300739303 236410 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp >:) < 1300739359 719023 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@unaffiliated/poiuy-qwert/x-0506151 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300739388 384723 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there something like 'map theory'? I know there is something like 'array theory' < 1300739557 346939 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :array theory: http://www.nial.com/ArrayTheory.html < 1300739596 662527 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300739600 206396 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah found something: http://www.mangust.dk/skalberg/papers/gkli-slides1.pdf < 1300739605 992393 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :map theorie: v < 1300739606 862951 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK THIS SHIT < 1300739610 996394 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :map theory: http://www.mangust.dk/skalberg/papers/gkli-slides1.pdf < 1300739714 248019 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it be nice to have a map oriented language? < 1300739732 398559 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is a map - data and code < 1300739752 918911 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oerjan: Reload < 1300739759 486336 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1300739762 724989 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapido, map? < 1300739769 765528 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Logs < 1300739774 288081 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-208.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1300739779 889628 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1300739800 962742 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better < 1300739838 122462 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :concrete map: [0=0;1=1;2=4;3=9] < 1300739840 49272 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If somebody wants to make an HTMLifier, I will not argue with them :P < 1300739853 522768 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapido, so everything is an associative array? < 1300739883 54460 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes, that's one way of phrasing it < 1300739892 383815 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapido, finite or infinite? < 1300739897 434085 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :finite! < 1300739906 634233 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant like a map /operation/, not a map /datatype/ < 1300739908 381268 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :total functions would be nice < 1300739922 738823 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's turtles (maps) all the way down. < 1300739967 210094 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1300739986 335961 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be a lazy map: [x<-[0..10000000];x*x] < 1300740041 761135 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still finite because the domain is finite < 1300740077 848694 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That looks more like a lazy list to me. < 1300740120 522692 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ok, i haven't really settled for a notation < 1300740128 769988 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :notation <- syntax < 1300740150 73542 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's just a notation issue, then I don't understand what that means X-P < 1300740214 311646 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, the map [x=>x^2] (0 <= x <= 10000000). < 1300740219 207797 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :domain: 0..10000000 : range: x*x < 1300740249 742894 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes - thanks < 1300740307 29554 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300740334 622125 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300740429 176281 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the domain (keys) and range (values) can be maps too. < 1300740468 307846 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, literals are maps in disguise < 1300740482 3553 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be only maps! < 1300740683 680 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh, OK, I wasn't getting the syntax. < 1300740683 308193 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done something similar with enchilada- but i like to be more restrictive than enchilada (i.e. finitie maps only) < 1300740709 535215 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapido, so basically everything is a function from a finite sense? < 1300740711 696257 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*set < 1300740763 268180 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes < 1300740803 105361 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *think* that makes it non-TC. < 1300740869 103032 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300740882 914894 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.uclassify.com/browse/uClassify/GenderAnalyzer_v5 < 1300740890 803717 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the funniest thing ever. < 1300740902 998744 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to define maleness of writing as complexity. < 1300740913 94684 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i have a penis" is 97% female. < 1300740946 426971 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i don't see why that makes it non-TC. < 1300740968 641749 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... it depends. < 1300740999 458986 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: say that you have an recursive function that doesn't terminate < 1300741058 574949 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now let's imagine an interpreter that takes this same recursive function, together with a user-defined 'number of interpreter steps' < 1300741063 222468 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Seems that all of Hemingway's writing would be classed as female, then. < 1300741066 643313 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could still do cons lists. < 1300741069 548053 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, OMG YES < 1300741071 901415 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Hemingway is 200% male. < 1300741089 791554 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when the interpreter reaches the 'number of interpreter steps' it terminates < 1300741109 972505 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0=1; 1=[0=2; 1=[0=3; 1=[0=4; 1=[0=5; 1=[0=6; 1= < 1300741121 56835 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, QUICK NEED SAMPLE < 1300741168 940062 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, Hemingway is 90% female. < 1300741170 217887 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: consing can be done - nice observation < 1300741220 427759 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"That this Funge has 80 dimensions" < 1300741243 134414 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :string theory funge < 1300741410 72543 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just impressed that I got it to get that far. I had to rewrite a good chunk of the stack routines. They were confused about when they were supposed to allocate new memory for a stack header versus when that memory was already allocated for them. < 1300741484 483051 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, why are you doing 80-dimensional Funge? < 1300741511 918472 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm not. FBBI thinks it interprets an 80-dimensional funge. When you ask it. With 'y'. < 1300741521 354924 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to Mycology. < 1300741563 142996 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :question: how would you give a unique name to a arbitrary block of bytes without hashing (=possible collisions) and without using a central service (thing p2p) < 1300741572 78182 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing <- think < 1300741626 441639 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh - the same block of bytes should map always return the same name < 1300741713 70302 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapido: I don't think it's possible. < 1300741751 580554 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, a perfect hash function would do it. But that's hashing. < 1300741781 675516 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if the blocks are truly arbitrary, the only perfect hash function is identity :) < 1300741827 784305 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: incorrect, rot13 is also a perfect hash function < 1300741828 743794 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ok, what about a central service which just increases a counter for each new block that has been issued? < 1300741835 510748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as are many compression algorithms < 1300741848 724410 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any function with an inverse, really. < 1300741855 408629 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for all inputs) < 1300741898 46095 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if we scale the central naming service to log(n) naming services - with n being the number of blocks issued? < 1300741924 858955 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or square(n)? < 1300741943 419144 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dns scales pretty good < 1300741970 162534 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com NICK :woroyo < 1300742123 974634 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fine -- the only pefect hash functions are permutations < 1300742137 241160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gzip is a permutation? < 1300742143 903164 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a COMPRESSING permutation. < 1300742168 443374 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL JAVA: http://www.nupxl.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Fail-and-Funny-Names-batman-bin-suparman.jpg < 1300742231 219464 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: There's a large class of bijective functions. < 1300742248 112295 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of them aren't, strictly speaking, permutations. < 1300742266 265320 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I'm not allowed to speak the truth. < 1300742292 153456 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which clearly means that you are permitted to speak the truth, but opt not to. < 1300742296 360954 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i want to achieve (function) memoization - not only within one instance of running program - but globally < 1300742304 749492 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapido: No. < 1300742324 571885 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapido: Universal memoization is not as good an idea as you may think. < 1300742326 968828 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: no? < 1300742337 540017 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-3-165.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1300742388 794600 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, shouldn't compressing a compressed file increase its size? < 1300742398 988298 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1300742403 167718 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: it doesn't need to be persistent always - just the most used functions (structures) < 1300742405 984224 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Not *necessarily*. < 1300742429 189397 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapido: Automatic memoization is a *hard* problem. < 1300742438 727127 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.115.118.174 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300742440 208296 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: isn't a bijection called a permutation if the set is infinite? < 1300742449 793594 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: compressing a compressed file may not always be possible < 1300742454 480802 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: 'memoization is a *hard* problem' - i like that! < 1300742466 386923 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :one still need to provide a minimum amount of information < 1300742472 435616 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, it arguably *shouldn't* be possible given a perfect compression algorithm. < 1300742484 188545 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: There's no such thing. < 1300742494 381196 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapido: At least as hard as parallel computing. < 1300742507 361801 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: i'm the author of enchilada - i have done some 'experiments' on the subject. < 1300742510 364099 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Information theory discuses the absolute minimums and maximums as relate to compression < 1300742519 491195 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: A "perfect" compression algorithm is a bijective mapping from a larger set to a smaller set. < 1300742524 324634 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Which is of course impossible. < 1300742527 34048 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: a bijection is called a permutation if the set is FINITE < 1300742544 205629 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, hence I'm defining "perfect" far more fuzzily. < 1300742545 349753 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you usually don't talk about permutations of infinite sets < 1300742554 750296 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" are there an interesting 'collection oriented' language that is not apl/j/k?" <<< toi < 1300742565 478719 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is writing a BF compiler using llvm ... should be fun how to use llvm :-) < 1300742572 798277 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And I define addition to mean fish blue purple flimble boob. < 1300742573 342642 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to get rid of enchilada's cryptographic hashes - but still scale in a distributed setup < 1300742614 662780 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that's just your toi project < 1300742639 579416 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" oklopol: ?" <<< sometimes one needs to o < 1300742649 854106 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1300742651 780851 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1300742658 558641 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1300742664 540197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1300742667 863475 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :|\ < 1300742668 74778 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :\ < 1300742716 120727 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: is there a interesting 'collection oriented' language that is also esoteric ;) < 1300742745 243605 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" oklopol: a bijection is called a permutation if the set is FINITE" <<< i was not aware of this < 1300742766 99903 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in group theory, this convention is not always followed < 1300742786 96064 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :people speak of permutation representations even for infinite gruplers < 1300742786 860662 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :every bijection of a finite set is always a permutation. < 1300742798 726617 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok yeah, but that's a different sense < 1300742814 403017 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you're talking about permutations of structured sets.. groups etc < 1300742826 850880 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :not "just sets" < 1300742840 464544 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :permutation and bijection are synonyms, but i wouldn't be surprised if people only use it for say up to countable infinity < 1300742854 252775 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean. the former. < 1300742871 68973 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" then you're talking about permutations of structured sets.. groups etc" <<< no, sets < 1300742886 409014 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't feel natural to me to call hilbert hotel a permutation for example < 1300742889 336153 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :permutation representation = representing the group as a set of permutations < 1300742897 602625 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a permutation of a set is not itself a set < 1300742898 365652 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a permutation? < 1300742900 598866 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1300742906 574546 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, permutation is only when it's a bijection onto itself < 1300742909 833257 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean the thing where everything is shifted < 1300742913 604629 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes < 1300742916 598446 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an injection but not a bijection < 1300742922 464413 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so of course it's not a permutation < 1300742933 750716 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: untruth < 1300742966 822855 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought the hilbert hotel thing was that you have a sequence indexed by N and you shift it to obtain empty rooms < 1300742992 408079 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that a bijection < 1300743009 680995 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" btw, permutation is only when it's a bijection onto itself" <<< oh, well this is certainly true < 1300743019 832660 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: imagine Z^2 where (0, c=const) is injected into (c, 0) and (c, v=var) is hilberted vertically < 1300743038 75251 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the empty space is collapsed < 1300743060 420857 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, you're describing a random bijection? < 1300743063 526 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what's your point < 1300743073 30929 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, bijections exist < 1300743075 14816 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i described a bijection which uses the hilbert hotel principle < 1300743078 775391 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :id also works < 1300743090 669363 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :to show you it's not always an injection < 1300743096 370438 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :without being surjective < 1300743108 143427 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then just shift Z < 1300743154 356354 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...a bijection is always injective. < 1300743176 417166 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but okay, you don't consider self-bijections of even countable sets worthy of the name permutation, that's all you wanted to say i suppose < 1300743222 86025 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he meant using hilbert hotel principle doesn't always give you something that is an injection without being surjective < 1300743229 42918 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't surjectively inject your hilbert hotel principle into the discussion - please! < 1300743265 715430 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what if some REALLY complicated and SURPRISING bijections aren't injective? < 1300743273 357943 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you really know? < 1300743318 628426 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: A bijection is an injection and a surjection, by definition. < 1300743322 956001 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't just say "they're injective by definition", things don't become true if you define them to be true < 1300743333 56464 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah pikhq_ takes the easy way out < 1300743336 870498 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1300743354 434074 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things do become true if we define them to be true. < 1300743368 97099 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least in the context where it's defined to be true. < 1300743396 866507 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: in the theory of CA, we say G is time symmetric if there is an involution I such that G^(-1) = IGI, is this a common concept elsewhere? < 1300743435 941923 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :time-symmetry includes lots of things that consist of particles, for instance, it's an interesting concept < 1300743452 695873 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't recall seeing anything exactly like it anywhere < 1300743460 206468 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again what the fuck do i know, that's why i'm asking < 1300743480 880307 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :involution? < 1300743489 827140 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: yeah right, next u gonna say the reals are uncountable lol < 1300743499 611156 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sorry I is an involution if I^2 = id < 1300743508 828394 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :where maybe i should've named things differently < 1300743515 482926 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: No, I'm going to say the naturals are countable. < 1300743516 156352 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1300743516 507026 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can apply it to a CA, I would be surprised if you couldn't apply it to any semantics, with enough effort < 1300743517 389142 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know but why not just G^(-1) = IGI^-1 ? < 1300743529 972672 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well sure, that works too < 1300743542 616769 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um are they equivalent < 1300743558 764959 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1300743568 55211 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are equivalent exactly? < 1300743569 320531 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT WAS A QUESTION < 1300743574 59318 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sorry < 1300743578 929781 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read "um they are equivalent" < 1300743587 248192 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i don't see why that definition would be equivalent < 1300743603 24840 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well why then did you say "that works too" < 1300743607 776708 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah the idea is you conjugate with I to get G's complement < 1300743616 803617 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sorry, i meant like "well sure, you can generalize it" < 1300743620 102082 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the word, conjugate < 1300743636 181893 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan's looks like a conjugate. oklopol's doesn't. < 1300743643 768962 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't know from conjugates < 1300743643 769038 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall using the word anti-conjugate or something like that < 1300743689 41165 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.space.com/7044-moon-apollo-astronauts-customs.html < 1300743691 955463 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucking customs. < 1300743721 237520 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it popped up in one of the basic theorems we looked at, an orbit equivalence with continuous cocycles is always either a conjugation or an anti-conjugation < 1300743725 848499 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you don't recall anything with involutions tho? < 1300743727 601028 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any CA formalism that takes previous (N not just the current) world states as input? < 1300743737 890777 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no. < 1300743762 16805 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1300743763 241211 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i've only sometimes talked to him and started pulling his boots and kecks off.") well, i'll call is something different, though. < 1300743778 938066 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapido: no, but those are essentially the same thing < 1300743796 320977 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pulls oklopol's kecks off < 1300743810 572381 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, i noticed lately that knuth defined some numbers of negative base < 1300743813 750385 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is fun < 1300743816 952045 :MUILTFN_!~MLINTH@adsl-80-203-174.mcn.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300743820 300288 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :he also proved some fun properties about them < 1300743845 774480 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely someone has defined such a construction (running n generations simultaneously), for instance the block representation, that is, remembering neighbors in cells, and higher block representations, compressing blocks of n into single symbols, are used a lot in symbolic dynamics < 1300743852 776378 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally, something with which I can describe my bank balance < 1300743879 445685 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was in response to cheater-'s comment, but now I want it to have applied to what oklopol just said < 1300743880 823024 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: could such formalism be more powerful - not in a TC sense - but in a 'programming' sense - whatever that means < 1300743893 948307 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any variant of brainfruck that lets the user make syscalls? < 1300743900 730525 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :or call external C functions? < 1300743902 845602 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i've read more about symbolic dynamics than CA, and in symbolic dynamics, you always just run your CA for exactly one step :) < 1300743912 134359 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapido: mcell has some "ca families" that use memory < 1300743913 22563 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want a brainfuck FFI? < 1300743915 275340 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: I don't know, but, yes < 1300743935 356653 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thanks for the pointer < 1300743937 394047 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in theory that just gives a more compact representation < 1300743978 962016 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapido: well i haven't seen them used, at least < 1300743980 368603 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ? < 1300743990 558138 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i think) < 1300743991 516981 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater-: yes < 1300744011 19009 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but actually, remembering your neighborhood is essentially just what you described, for the shift CA < 1300744012 664894 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1300744017 539846 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_base < haha, a practical use of intercal < 1300744031 893898 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you just generalized one of the key concepts of everything to do with sequences! < 1300744033 796309 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the russians built a computer once that was in balanced ternary < 1300744060 253461 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: i heard of it < 1300744061 315969 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: yes - it was expensive & unstable < 1300744062 957320 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the different values were -1, 0, 1 < 1300744065 82892 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't that in the 80s or something < 1300744073 941576 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly earlier, but yeah, expensie & unstable. < 1300744084 976371 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater-: I already have a practical use of INTERCAL < 1300744090 54658 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it. < 1300744101 839099 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever someone asks me what language to learn first I have a good answer < 1300744105 193818 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-p < 1300744114 836353 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like surreal numbers < 1300744131 161029 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :surreal number subsume all numbers < 1300744140 525442 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :number <- numbers < 1300744152 226755 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...well not _all_ numbers < 1300744155 187482 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i liked the definition of hyperreal numbers < 1300744165 387591 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know their definition < 1300744166 400054 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyperreal? ah yeah! < 1300744170 994731 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Index finger -> cat nose is like the human<->cat equivalent of a fist-bump. < 1300744190 599626 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: a formal definition of things like dx, dy, 0+, 0-, and so on < 1300744191 616056 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic definition doesn't include complex numbers, although you can probably complete it < 1300744196 544643 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater-: i know that < 1300744208 6059 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's based off sequences. < 1300744208 239818 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i doubt it includes p-adics < 1300744208 450143 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also know astrophysics is about space and stuff < 1300744226 529149 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that sex is about doing things under the blanket < 1300744228 916963 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that's all u need < 1300744239 323518 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for quaternions < 1300744244 607562 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they do indeed include real numbers and transfinite ordinals < 1300744272 541061 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well aren't surreals meant to make the real line as long as humanly possible < 1300744274 170940 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or biquaternions < 1300744297 916515 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater-: yeah i know the usual definition is based on ultrafilters < 1300744305 195474 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i'm not sure that was the original motivation... < 1300744325 187981 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but including ordinals does pretty much ensure that < 1300744338 817636 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://chc60.fgcu.edu/images/articles/Marczynski.pdf < lol cool!! < 1300744340 650341 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :check it out < 1300744356 836026 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAM made out of acoustically induced mercury. wtf? < 1300744357 303648 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it < 1300744367 17621 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1300744382 158306 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :liquidated memory < 1300744440 377641 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" oklopol: that's all u need" <<< you know how fucking annoying it is when people learn about hyperreals and suddenly they can do their calculus without thinking altogether because "hey, this can be made formal, stick that epsilon up your ass!" < 1300744457 985553 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1300744461 286272 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll tell ya: slightly. < 1300744467 247385 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: why is it annoying < 1300744491 522458 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: is it because you wish you had learnt about it earlier? < 1300744500 868837 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's like saying "hey, there is a god, therefore i don't have to think about the details" < 1300744508 133093 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :all they have learned is the term hyperreal < 1300744508 417112 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what's the problem with using hyperreals over limits? < 1300744521 536464 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: nothing, but no one ever uses them < 1300744537 115800 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so what you mean is that people learn about hyperreals and suddenly they THINK they can do their calculus without thinking altogether < 1300744545 65659 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: rite < 1300744547 358322 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1300744564 869901 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater-: yes < 1300744571 887395 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1300744572 943922 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that's different. < 1300744579 767792 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you'd better be sorry < 1300744582 924711 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :beg for forgiveness.. < 1300744585 762805 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D < 1300744587 92244 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :equal rites < 1300744591 826467 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i am very sorry. < 1300744602 70646 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :how sorry? < 1300744608 354647 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, quite? < 1300744615 972035 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :we bought a whiteboard today < 1300744617 484390 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1300744617 824780 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's finnish. he's sorry by definition. < 1300744620 260316 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess quite is ok. < 1300744626 854653 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hahah < 1300744672 936590 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently hyperreals make calculus rather nice and intuitive < 1300744678 515103 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've seen a few examples < 1300744681 474745 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :of using them < 1300744687 523860 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 JOIN :#esoteric < 1300744709 421221 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they make gabriel's horn make any more sense? < 1300744722 816067 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's gabriel's horn? < 1300744727 488748 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll wp < 1300744736 10105 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, it's just that you said "nice and intuitive" and "calculus" in the same sentence, and that's the first thing I thought of < 1300744745 833634 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "horn of gabriel" iirc < 1300744763 563473 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's that retarded thing < 1300744839 441338 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the integral from 1 to infinity of 1/x, isn't it? < 1300744869 934537 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1300744872 854960 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an infinite object with finite volume but infinite surface area, or vice versa, I forget which. < 1300744882 304064 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's really unintuitive that the infinite line is infinitely long, but that part under it is finite < 1300744887 356227 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :finite area < 1300744891 52006 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinte volume < 1300744901 292158 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk, wrong way 'round. < 1300744919 28601 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you have to rotate it 2pi to make the "paradox" slightly less ridiculous < 1300745007 806145 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/2pi/tau/ < 1300745067 158230 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. Calculus gets some pretty surprising *results*, though many of the concepts actually do make some intuitive sense. < 1300745092 549454 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: tau? < 1300745093 334055 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although you can create similarly weird things even easier with fractals. < 1300745133 671310 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater-: tau=2pi < 1300745153 927338 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a fractal based esoteric language? < 1300745156 882528 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: since when? < 1300745169 856625 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gabriel's horn is not weird) < 1300745170 912584 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: how is it unintuitive? < 1300745176 524216 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'living on the edge' which is infinite < 1300745180 776285 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater-: it's not, i was being sarcastic < 1300745182 22587 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what about the idea of filling a square with a curve? < 1300745189 160272 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1300745194 60255 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater-: now that's slightly surprising < 1300745203 540896 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least was for me back in the day < 1300745220 161700 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater-: Recent proposal of an alternate circle constant, which is a bit more elegant. < 1300745225 174853 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERYONE: I'M FINE WITH YOU BEING AMAZED AT HILBERT'S SPACE-FILLING CURVE < 1300745232 978189 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well my intuition is that if i take a DIN A4 white page of paper and try to make it completely black with just a ball pen, it will take so much time i will FAIL < 1300745250 710895 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: is that like New Math < 1300745301 264913 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Math < 1300745303 821110 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-231-233.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300745310 388968 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: for your benefit: OH WOW < 1300745311 959395 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the Algebra preface of his book "Precalculus Mathematics in a Nutshell," Professor George F. Simmons wrote that the New Math produced students who had "heard of the commutative law, but did not know the multiplication table." < 1300745314 326594 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1300745317 307351 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wikipedia agrees with me! < 1300745323 889937 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-231-233.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that the ratio of a circle's circumference to its radius makes more sense when we don't care about the diameter. < 1300745325 880661 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait no it don't < 1300745329 151884 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapido, well, there were the Sierpiński numbers... < 1300745414 428446 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: aaah, a new number system to learn....... how many are there? < 1300745427 987855 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :uncountably many. < 1300745432 240991 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapido, it's countably infinite. < 1300745433 814720 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.115.118.174 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://twitpic.com/3nt8eh/full Hilbert Curve bomber in Core War :-) < 1300745435 398653 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :< rapido> is there a fractal based esoteric language? <-- I know there were a few that got to the "planning" stage, but I don't know of any complete ones < 1300745440 758148 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not really. < 1300745443 60497 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck at the "Examples" < 1300745449 350405 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's uncountable, actually. < 1300745466 265589 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-176-85.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1300745475 462835 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like infinite/uncountable stuff - but hey - i'' make an exception < 1300745476 590662 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : is there a fractal based esoteric language? <-- i'm pretty sure there was one but i don't remember the name < 1300745538 838373 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know calamari wanted to make one. And I have a half-idea for one. And you could make an argument that anything based on a tree has self-similarity and whatever < 1300745547 421964 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapido, well, just restrict it to finite strings. < 1300745556 803968 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only known proofs of the undecidability of the reversibility of CA in dimensions greater than 1 are based on the hilbert curve < 1300745604 705517 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(afaik at least) < 1300745626 999736 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat's CA? < 1300745631 557855 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cellular automaton < 1300745633 110698 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning, if, given an arbitrary CA, if you could decide whether it was reversible or not, you could solve the HP? < 1300745643 509963 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: what? < 1300745644 843886 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1300745655 228396 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: is that what you mean by "the undecidability of the reversibility of CA"? < 1300745668 42059 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reduction is from the tiling problem < 1300745675 816225 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, given a set of wang tiles, is there a tiling of the plane < 1300745676 263323 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HP: Hilbert Problem? < 1300745678 150977 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not what i asked < 1300745689 412670 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HP=halting problem < 1300745697 329524 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that's the problem of deciding, given a CA, whether it is invertible < 1300745703 987085 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh halting problem, sorry < 1300745712 247916 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it means exactly that < 1300745715 84983 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1300745723 834576 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought HP was hilbert curve :D < 1300745727 779560 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i read it as HC < 1300745739 407399 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEXT TIME I WILL TYPE THE P MORE CLEARLY < 1300745743 875264 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you < 1300745757 306000 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like reversible languages: enchilada is reversible (modulo hash collisions) < 1300745822 459770 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't the Halting Problem - essentially Hilbert's Problem? < 1300745826 801075 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is sad that no one asked for details :'( < 1300745837 268945 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapido: well not really < 1300745850 698913 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least one of his great problems turned out to be undecidable < 1300745886 681034 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one? < 1300745895 881225 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one about diophantine equations < 1300745898 767402 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1300745913 508009 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yeah. < 1300745919 640388 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the exact problem was, i do not remember, however < 1300745926 169331 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably whether they have solutions < 1300746083 450739 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this with matrix multiplication?- that the most optimum algorithm for general kxk * kxk multiplication is cannot be algorithmically be constructed? (Ω(k^2logk) and this has to do with group theory? < 1300746126 597940 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not following you < 1300746202 898322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1300746249 941203 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot find an optimal (generic) matrix multiplication algorithm for an arbitrary size of matrices < 1300746276 191817 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that somehow seems unsurprising < 1300746290 907504 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: for time-reversibility you get a fun characterization: the time-reversible CA are exactly the ones that are the composition of two involutions < 1300746299 575761 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is of course rather clear from the definition < 1300746300 837612 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i find it rather surprising < 1300746398 836786 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't really comment on rapido's statement without knowing more details, with my definition of the concepts, that is trivially true: there is always a faster algorithm < 1300746430 743886 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yeah.. I never go a good idea on how to make a fractal language.. I wanted it all to fit together perfectly, rther than feeling tacked on < 1300746441 802597 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: are you referring to the speedup theorem? yeah, but i never understood that one, either < 1300746452 168894 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey calamari < 1300746498 269649 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's not a simple thing to design well... i certainly haven't gotten very far with my idea, and it's not even a very ambitious interpretation < 1300746513 779235 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: what should be the ingredients of a good fractal language? < 1300746514 744263 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: the speedup theorem is a rather trivial consequence of the fact we can add arbitrarily many states to our turing machines, and that we can have arbitrarily big alphabets < 1300746532 714480 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also felt it needed to provide a bit of data creation.. what I mean is like mandelbrot where it's self-similar but not exactly < 1300746545 644892 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :just compress the given word to say 1/1000000 of its original size, and do computation 1000000 times faster < 1300746555 588521 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can fit 1000000 symbols in one cell < 1300746560 900721 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :by having a bigger alphabet < 1300746576 264759 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would we recognize pi if it were in base 31? < 1300746583 756719 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, is that all. i got the impression it was much more profound than that. < 1300746607 334829 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i imagine your cs lecturer has succesfully hidden the fact the speedup theorem is fucking obvious by adding tons of details before mentioning the general idea. < 1300746612 498588 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why base 31? < 1300746637 862056 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: because 31 is insignificant :) < 1300746665 418112 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: there are very profound things that have to do with speeding things up, but this is certainly not one of them < 1300746672 545836 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did they ever figure out how to convert that arbitrary digit algorithm to base 10? < 1300746687 440616 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did they decide it wasn't possible? < 1300746750 79960 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also a speed-up theorem that says something like, if you have a computable function f, then there exists a recursive language L such that for any algorithm you make for it, there exists another algorithm that is f(n) times faster on an input of size n < 1300746762 494533 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in the limit < 1300746765 894410 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something crazy like that < 1300746794 443377 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey! - what about memoization of numbers and functions (that produce numbers), irrespective of base? < 1300746808 325199 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" would we recognize pi if it were in base 31?" <<< no < 1300746836 499181 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bases up to 100424 have been tried. but maybe 100425 does it, you could be a pioneer. < 1300746875 621645 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about a complex base? < 1300746893 283946 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :we actually just had a lecture series about the expansions of constants < 1300746899 219448 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :try base e < 1300746917 935829 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think we know anything about pi < 1300746926 392659 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bailey%E2%80%93Borwein%E2%80%93Plouffe_formula#The_search_for_new_equalities is a little confusing < 1300746929 59696 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but e has a rather simple continued fraction < 1300746944 537367 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol so does pi < 1300746981 548873 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry i left that kinda open < 1300746999 95075 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well whatever, i don't recall the details < 1300747009 458958 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do i... < 1300747021 609451 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but pi doesn't have a rather simple simple continued fraction < 1300747037 474 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best compression of pi is to recognize it in disguise. < 1300747037 126145 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it converges horribly.. but it's simple :) < 1300747068 468170 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: note, two "simple" there < 1300747080 415451 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's simple to understand, but it's not simple to work with, at least it doesn't help for the that particular lecturer was using the digits < 1300747085 714848 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but let me look up the sequence < 1300747087 683124 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1300747091 998834 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i can point out the complication < 1300747099 977864 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently simple is a specific math term < 1300747101 718261 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe you can calculate the n'th digit of pi without calculating it's previous digits? < 1300747112 707040 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :generalized continued fraction < 1300747129 668837 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapido: yes, hex digit < 1300747135 716519 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapido: in binary, what we're talking about is whether you can do it in base 10 or so < 1300747157 519271 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that section i linked may or may not imply that base 3 is known... < 1300747213 981858 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You'll be happy* to know that FBBI makes it to the end of Mycology, now, with "only" 9 BADs. (*Feel free to substitute the emotion of your choice here.) < 1300747234 983280 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what < 1300747245 245477 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm finding a very weird continued fraction for pi < 1300747249 869099 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it was rather simple < 1300747260 431250 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" ...but pi doesn't have a rather simple simple continued fraction" < 1300747261 577311 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1300747308 982724 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an idea for a fractal language < 1300747322 683896 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you zoom in to the border < 1300747357 425793 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 'result' of your specified program will be more and more accurate < 1300747382 341715 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you never reach the 'ultimate' solution of your algorithm < 1300747387 176088 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapido: just be sure that it is capable of writing a fractal encryption code unbreakable by the borg.. otherwise the future of humanity is put at risk < 1300747389 984996 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1300747392 135581 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1300747393 141036 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a rather simple simple simple continued fractal < 1300747413 569244 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300747414 128170 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the littlewood conjecture is true for all pairs (e, x), since the continued fraction representation of e contains arbitrarily large numbers < 1300747434 979452 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw: the algorithm specification is also nearing the optimal algorithm - but not quite - fractal wise < 1300747493 409625 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm - let me iterate on that < 1300747508 208454 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(s,n)=s/n+f(-s,n+2) is not a continued fraction, but it is rather simple < 1300747551 78259 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know continued fractions (vaguely from uni) < 1300747567 585867 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like them. they wet their nests < 1300747568 685006 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know very little about them < 1300747574 869318 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why hasn't elliott been here in a while? < 1300747586 200041 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: um do you have your precedence right there < 1300747591 933882 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: he left in a huff < 1300747603 417641 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i... think so? < 1300747623 504396 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(s,n)=(s/n)+f(-s,n+2) ? < 1300747641 952806 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... does / not come before +? < 1300747660 996083 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in most PLs i am familiar with < 1300747664 277758 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are we being concatenative? < 1300747693 663354 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's usually the same precedence as * < 1300747693 897609 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help < 1300747694 95946 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands < 1300747698 48561 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@list < 1300747698 270405 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS < 1300747715 162583 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1/2+3 < 1300747715 359394 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hello < 1300747715 359455 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: help tell < 1300747715 775938 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.5 < 1300747729 866120 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :most definitely not in haskell < 1300747762 861411 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1/2)+3 < 1300747763 576968 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.5 < 1300747772 711003 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 1/2+3 = (1/2)+3 < 1300747777 899975 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1300747779 787183 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so / comes before + < 1300747800 179626 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: um i thought you were disagreeing with my adding parentheses above? < 1300747809 520308 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so s/n+f() = (s/n)+f() < 1300747816 738132 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why did you add parens? < 1300747820 717451 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"comes before" is not a term i can understand clearly < 1300747826 578635 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is evaluated before < 1300747841 849129 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: because you were talking about continued fractions and they use a/(b+c) < 1300747854 733640 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also said it was not a continued fraction < 1300747865 269654 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a recurrence < 1300747867 192502 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL RIGHT THEN < 1300747867 641674 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a precedence and parentheses - you don't have that 'problem' with 'concatenate' languages (or apl/k/j) < 1300747868 1699 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's pi/4 < 1300747887 522652 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONFUSION REIGNS. ALL HAIL THE OMNIGOAT < 1300747942 898280 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course this means we need an esolang where the precedence varies in a difficult-to-predict way < 1300747947 932455 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly depending on the values involved < 1300747953 5271 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: also in haskell "is evaluated before" is rather distinct from precedence >:) < 1300747973 877249 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*omni🐐 < 1300747978 129943 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, yeah < 1300748005 919674 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, evaluation order is distinct from precedence in many, perhaps most languages. < 1300748007 22228 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also in haskell 'is evaluated whenever' is rather not related to precedence ;) < 1300748015 644040 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah :P < 1300748033 524696 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of hard to evaluate what x+3 is without first evaluating x, though < 1300748036 240204 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : of course this means we need an esolang where the precedence varies in a difficult-to-predict way <-- i think oklopol had something like that < 1300748036 482558 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a while now i've been trying to make a language where every little change in the program changes EVERYTHING, yet somehow you can program in the language < 1300748048 591742 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no locality. what i tried to do with toi, but failed < 1300748056 832071 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah cise < 1300748060 416208 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1300748062 232778 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: But it's easy to evaluate x+y*z in the order x->y->z instead of y->z->x < 1300748064 703292 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i like x to be free - let us be free < 1300748078 713263 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1300748079 397825 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in cise, there's no precedence, the first correct parse is used < 1300748083 82587 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, yeah < 1300748096 94746 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you have - reference - to ..... toi ? < 1300748099 442676 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :url ? < 1300748117 824950 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapido: it should be on the wiki < 1300748124 797291 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, oklopol is fundamentally opposed to revealing his languages in anything other than irc babbling < 1300748130 100950 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :an oklopol quality article, i'm sure < 1300748141 648989 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, i'm pretty sure toi has an article? < 1300748163 909383 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: DON'T LET YOUR PUNY FACTS GET IN THE WAY OF MY STEREOTYPING < 1300748165 478662 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm totally a wiki-using grown up nowadays < 1300748167 132201 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on *the* wiki? < 1300748172 74041 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the wiki, yes < 1300748178 945478 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry didn't realize you were a total noob lol :PPPPp < 1300748184 699119 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the esolang wiki < 1300748187 559251 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-231-233.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1300748193 407694 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-226-87.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1300748216 923372 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Toi (the name means nothing < 1300748262 486559 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't believe it. It's short for T(ower of Han)oi < 1300748268 393486 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brackets have to match, otherwise everything's a legal program ????? < 1300748270 653277 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, that's what I always think of, when I read it < 1300748297 186234 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1300748306 447519 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure that's entirely true .DS < 1300748329 583933 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it is < 1300748351 398379 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1300748418 76476 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'(A{B}' is a type of for-each. For each s in S the Toi program A is run with s as the context. < 1300748442 243576 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the context concept is a bit underdeveloped (documentation wise) < 1300748466 404780 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :each run of a toi program has a context, that just means you recursively call the interpreter with another context < 1300748485 118094 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought that was clear but yeah i guess it's a weird way to explain things < 1300748510 104994 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe "the toi program A is run with s as the initial context" < 1300748531 947329 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, all that drama over a bot? < 1300748635 782179 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and who is Herobrine? wait, I forgot -- I don't really care < 1300748647 199539 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evening, folks. < 1300748650 832740 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that. < 1300748654 616195 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1300748713 39971 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey is in CET timezone? : +00 hours here in the Netherlands - morning folks - later < 1300748740 810182 :rapido!~rapido@85.223.41.98 QUIT :Quit: rapido < 1300749023 965769 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklolol: what do you find ultrafilters are most useful for? < 1300749094 601397 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater-: what's an ultrafilter? < 1300749131 70728 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : cheater-: yeah i know the usual definition is based on ultrafilters < 1300749135 222586 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :UH HUH < 1300749137 682168 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i do know that < 1300749139 506802 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone's using big words < 1300749179 441503 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, just before that you said they are based on sequences < 1300749195 86266 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :granted, i'm sure you know what sequences are < 1300749198 90777 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :sequences are not a big word < 1300749198 818329 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1300749200 154223 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't think that's relevant < 1300749204 179964 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, at all < 1300749216 934832 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the point i was making < 1300749219 707315 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think sequences are irrelevant to hyperreals? < 1300749235 345170 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, ultrafilters are some kind of sequences, i assumed you meant them but didn't know the big word < 1300749253 314944 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ultrafilters are not sequences < 1300749260 929854 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas i talked to this prof once who does nonstandard analysis and i managed to copypaste a pretty cool word. < 1300749277 314356 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh? what were they then? < 1300749285 757935 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even nets, although they are related a bit < 1300749285 877659 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have this really vague recall < 1300749302 147489 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it's so vague i can't really put it into words < 1300749310 276607 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i meant sequences. < 1300749310 510434 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :something about the natural numbers and somthing < 1300749311 431727 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ultrapower construction < 1300749311 684188 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are going to construct a hyperreal field via sequences of reals. In fact we can add and multiply sequences componentwise; for example: < 1300749312 515778 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*something < 1300749320 764131 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and so on) < 1300749325 715695 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ultrapower construction :D < 1300749330 81418 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty awesome < 1300749336 123662 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperreal_number < read here < 1300749342 846154 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i won't < 1300749350 177691 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU read it < 1300749356 728086 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think landen or zeno linked me to an old article about that somewhere on the net < 1300749359 194763 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :an ultrafilter in X is a family of subsets of X such that (1) for every subset of X, either it or its complement is a member (2) a superset of a member is a member < 1300749363 227883 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ? < 1300749365 851156 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1300749367 600617 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1300749370 825738 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: are you like being aggressive or something < 1300749376 637359 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what it was < 1300749385 432681 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :equivalently, it's a maximal filter < 1300749386 708488 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater-: no i don't know what i'm doing < 1300749394 187280 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: are you on drugs < 1300749396 813837 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :really you should not listen to anything i say unless you're in a similar state of mind < 1300749398 648077 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1300749404 471437 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you should be then < 1300749410 91487 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1300749412 851002 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1300749414 150870 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1300749416 379505 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i suppose < 1300749416 596294 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1300749428 420284 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't been diagnosed < 1300749431 543261 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm (3) the intersection of two members is a member. i think. < 1300749444 686625 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was rather thinking of you getting some weed to help with the jitteriness < 1300749459 441803 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i guess you can get the medical kind too < 1300749459 962640 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1300749461 61636 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe that's redundant < 1300749479 996432 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: okay how do you use them? also that's a pretty cool set < 1300749490 22237 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :one damn cool set to say the least < 1300749502 690848 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd say it is < 1300749518 714904 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: a non-principal ultrafilter is one that isn't just the supersets of a fixed point. < 1300749557 741487 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1300749565 381891 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1300749568 439828 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does < 1300749571 641461 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :requires the axiom of choice to find < 1300749573 771411 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no u < 1300749597 618287 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :principal = cyclic = generated by one thing, usually, here it means we just look at one element to know whether the set is in the ultrafilter < 1300749603 650300 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1300749608 298911 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :principal ultrafilter is that < 1300749625 25891 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it is obvious that the S or S^c is in the ultrafilter < 1300749635 28758 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-the < 1300749638 477692 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+ for all sets S < 1300749661 2446 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't the consequent iterations of the cantor set an ultrafilter < 1300749707 498055 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt it, even though i don't understand it < 1300749725 962502 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ? < 1300749727 199291 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :iterations implies countable, and cantor set implies uncountable space < 1300749729 417447 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what's a consequent iteration < 1300749737 701330 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the first iteration, second iteration, etc < 1300749757 741987 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :those put together as a family of sets would make an ultrafilter, no? < 1300749782 210507 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean when you take away the middle, then the middle of each interval of that, etc? < 1300749785 215358 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ultrafilters are rather fucking big in uncountable spaces so that obviously cannot happen < 1300749819 736702 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope that's not what he meant < 1300749821 944442 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case, no, that's not an ultrafilter, not even a filter although you can make one by adding supersets < 1300749847 878101 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :filter = closed under supersets and closed under finite meets or what? < 1300749851 991439 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1300749857 151426 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda mixing up terminology there < 1300749860 301514 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i think < 1300749872 354689 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Introduction < 1300749872 562001 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The notion of I -ultrafilter was introduced in Baumgartner [1995]: Let I be a family of < 1300749872 785552 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :subsets of a set X such that I contains all singletons and is closed under subsets. Given a free < 1300749872 785604 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ultrafilter U on ω, we say that U is an I -ultrafilter if for any F : ω → X there is A ∈ U such < 1300749872 785631 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that F [A] ∈ I . < 1300749872 931676 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baumgartner defined in his article discrete ultrafilters, scattered ultrafilters, measure zero < 1300749875 149762 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ultrafilters and nowhere dense ultrafilters which he obtained by taking X = 2ω , the Cantor set, < 1300749876 994397 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I the collection of discrete sets, scattered sets, sets with closure of measure zero, nowhere < 1300749878 915645 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :dense sets respectively. < 1300749906 783078 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems he's constructing ultrafilters from the cantor set somehow < 1300749960 349341 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um the cantor set is the whole space, i take < 1300749962 312602 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's too late for me to understand the details :D < 1300749975 347243 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm yeah probably < 1300750008 20126 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's omega there < 1300750019 91953 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a set that's really big? < 1300750032 56699 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:K61LyUFCLG0J:home.zcu.cz/~flaskova/research/MArevised.pdf+cantor+set+ultrafilter&hl=en&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjixG3WoyeYkUp79ujAGyHYhuM0avEL0uWdPbKyIkndXxySqzxUjkOB1S7WvUBXj-LDrrgwZD8PsqdycbHBuBbqP6YjjvWYvnYwAZQLD5DWfm7Xle-Ha_OcV-qTFCVP4DHI80SN&sig=AHIEtbQZCLkVGCtAe7rB005CWzF7DPbnlQ < 1300750063 199611 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh i would love to know too oklopol < 1300750081 637500 :cheater-!~cheater@e181054134.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i fear this secret might end up never being revealed < 1300750101 274133 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless oerjan bothers to tell us lowly noobs what it means < 1300750122 509045 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case i think non-principal ultrafilters definitely require the axiom of choice < 1300750174 467492 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i think "every filter has a larger ultrafilter" is probably equivalent to AoC) < 1300750218 324392 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ultrafiltersssssssssssssssssssssssssssss < 1300750683 337350 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw is it a xor, like exactly one of S and S^c is in the ultrafilter? < 1300750704 508639 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i totally just realized that's kinda important < 1300750918 328098 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. otherwise the empty set would be a member and that's disallowed for filters < 1300751007 557331 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is indeed true < 1300751015 307933 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :good one man :DDDDD < 1300751187 570639 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but umm isn't an ultrafilter just a filter you can't add any elements to < 1300751202 314754 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1300751210 216563 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's enough to show an increasing union of filters is a filter < 1300751212 826784 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmhmm < 1300751217 341763 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose that's obvious, but lemme check < 1300751222 63028 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@unaffiliated/poiuy-qwert/x-0506151 QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1300751229 493150 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's easy with zorn's lemma < 1300751235 976944 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1300751256 396155 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obvious that union of filters is a filter < 1300751270 210448 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah zorn's lemma is what i need the increasing unions for < 1300751271 819700 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*increasing < 1300751302 171211 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i said so a few lines above and i was too busy to write that complicated word a second time < 1300751331 323474 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i'm not sure it's at all obvious that the union of filters in general is a filter < 1300751343 495858 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :partly because that's not true < 1300751374 924412 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" equivalently, it's a maximal filter" <<< whoops < 1300751375 613099 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU'D THINK < 1300751395 711664 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not true, i'm pretty sure < 1300751408 937661 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...just take two different principal ones < 1300751421 269923 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's why i'm pretty sure < 1300751442 86675 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i had just proven it by taking two different principal filters < 1300751452 489066 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1300751462 955549 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well seriously < 1300751489 290713 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not nearly as stupid as i look < 1300751540 226662 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gasp* < 1300751556 890040 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1300751571 771845 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shit it's 2 am < 1300751619 765687 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i had one of those practise tennis balls < 1300751639 364301 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a ball that you can throw against the wall without a sound being made our of this event < 1300751642 538346 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*out < 1300751725 969307 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i could throw it against the wall from morning till dawn