00:00:20 zzo38: programs can also make you unhappy 00:00:35 Sgeo: Yes I know what you meant about APL's name, from the context. Yes I know you meant that. 00:00:46 zzo38, ok, sorry, wsn't sure 00:00:48 asnt' 00:00:49 wasn't 00:00:53 I FIND IT INTERESTING 00:00:56 * 00:01:16 cheater00: I suppose it can, but I am not intention to make the program of unhappy. The program is meant for its use. 00:01:25 Obviously, I am King of the Jews... erm, Typos 00:01:38 I find it interesting that every modern language's "Why X?" FAQ entry includes the rhetorical question "Does the world really need another language?" 00:01:52 zzo38: what i am saying is, when making a program always make sure to think of the user's feelings! 00:02:01 elliott: how would it ever have had any of my influences anyway? 00:02:01 ZOMGMODULES: apex's will instead include "Does this new language really need the world?" 00:02:09 "No. No it doesn't. We forced it into the world." 00:02:19 ZOMGMODULES: hey you exerted _vague_ influence :D 00:02:33 elliott, is apex the new name of @? 00:03:27 elliott: GOOD LUCK WITH APEX 00:03:40 ZOMGMODULES: is this some kind of horrid reverse psychology 00:03:41 the apex of naming 00:03:55 Ima designing Bizaaro-Pixley 00:04:00 (working title) 00:04:07 ZOMGMODULES: i guess i'll uh 00:04:07 hmm 00:04:11 what was that one thing you didn't want apex to do 00:04:14 i think i've forgotten :( 00:04:40 Allow apex to continue its non-existence? 00:04:47 Bizaaro-Pixley is: statically typed: has 'eval' instead of 'quote': has only pairs and symbols: has some other crap you'd never see in Scheme 00:05:03 -!- augur_ has joined. 00:05:04 how do you have a literal symbol? 00:05:05 ZOMGMODULES: What is Bizaaro-Pixley (other than that)? 00:05:09 elliott: too late for MY considered opinion 00:05:13 cons up a list of lists-representing-numerals and convert that? 00:05:24 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:05:28 a literal symbol is a bareword. a pair is: [hi there] 00:05:38 or maybe (hi . there), I dunno 00:05:58 let's go with 00:06:00 no 00:06:04 html will kill me 00:06:23 can't be [] because that's eval 00:06:33 ZOMGMODULES: {hi there} 00:06:40 -!- sftp has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 00:06:58 also, eval has syntax? perverse. i like it. 00:07:12 it has to because otherwise it sucks 00:07:17 Then use {} 00:07:33 for the purposes of demonstration I shall use {} but I am not sold on it 00:07:39 OK 00:07:40 -!- sftp has joined. 00:08:14 cheater00: Have you even *seen* my program? Otherwise how can you know? 00:08:39 zzo38: i never opined about your program 00:08:43 so: {hi there} evaluates to {hi there}. {cons {a b}} evaluates to {cons {a b}}. but [{cons {a b}] evaluates to {a b}. [{cons {[a] [b]}] does what you'd normally expect (cons a b) to do, in Scheme 00:08:51 except of the name, that is 00:09:16 THIS IS WHAT YOU GET WHEN YOU SNUB QUOTE 00:09:17 cheater00: O, OK. But how can you judge the book by only its name? 00:09:48 zzo38: zzo38: i never opined about your program 00:09:52 ZOMGMODULES: Is the {} mismatched, or is supposed to be like that? 00:10:29 cheater00: Then how can you know if it is correct name? 00:11:00 zzo38: i can judge a book's cover without reading the book. 00:11:19 Yes you can, but how can you judge if it is the correct cover for that book? 00:11:35 have i ever said anything about whether it is the correct name for your program? 00:11:43 flrgbl 00:12:14 ZOMGMODULES: so [] is not eval, it is unquote 00:12:15 You said is happy, but that should not be relevant except the program? If you just want to make it happy, you can make anything else, too. 00:13:15 wat 00:13:27 I have written some Bohlen-Pierce musics recently but I do not have it available right now sorry 00:13:51 cheater00: ? Stop cheating please ??? 00:14:11 zzo38: start english please? 00:14:13 :D 00:15:17 Can you play Bohlen-Pierce musics too? 00:17:33 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Toon guide). 00:17:33 I only made Bohlen-Pierce musics with no more than one note played at one time, so far, because I don't know how to make chord and stuff like that with Bohlen-Pierce musics. 00:17:53 elliott: well, it's *an* eval. and yes, i missed a close } 00:19:26 {let {{a b} a} -> {let {{a b} a} ... [{let {{a b} [a]}] -> b 00:19:40 thatsnotenglish 00:19:55 but the snazzy part comes from that session where oerjan and cpressey were abusing Haskell 00:20:41 It still looks like unmatched 00:20:47 oh, right, when the snazzy was in the happening 00:21:23 [{let {{[{let {c a} c}] b} [a]}] -> b 00:21:31 unless i missed a } in there too, i keep doing that 00:21:39 IN OTHER WORDS 00:21:47 I gather that's quite the something-or-other 00:21:48 symbols can be expressed 00:22:39 Bizaaro! Bizaaro! Bizaaro! 00:22:57 *pizzaro? 00:23:12 * olsner expresses symbols 00:24:31 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvW-ZGNjBYc 00:25:26 awesome 00:27:38 now i have to remember enough haskell to implement it 00:29:18 Expr ::= bareword | "{" Expr Expr "}" | "[" Expr "]" 00:29:20 that looks right 00:29:22 ish 00:31:38 Hello Parsec my old friend 00:31:38 right ish != right 00:32:01 i've come to talk to you again 00:32:32 about a parser so soft creeping, bla-bla blah parser something-something 00:36:52 you threw me there for a minute 00:38:47 couldn't be bothered figuring out the proper lyridcs 00:39:12 though I'm pretty sure you can make something completely coherent about parsec parsers to that tune 00:39:25 as coherent as such talk could ever be 00:40:43 hark bark flark flrgblk 00:40:56 flglrlrk 00:41:08 "You can't spell 'Parsec' without 'arse'" 00:41:27 I don't appear to have it installed though, what is this craziness? 00:41:30 I spell parsec using my brain and my hands 00:43:29 maybe with some kind of flatulence input method you could do it with your arse 00:43:40 ohhh do I have to install the damn thing with cabal 00:43:42 * ZOMGMODULES whines 00:43:45 * ZOMGMODULES WHINES 00:44:00 like the opposite of hawking's computer thingy 00:44:14 meh, stop the whining 00:44:41 also: with Cabal or with cabal-install? 00:45:11 and I do wonder why I'm talking at you 00:45:12 maybe not cabal, trying: sudo apt-get install libghc6-parsec3-dev 00:45:18 yeah, why is that? 00:45:23 no clue 00:45:33 I'm awake and have nothing better to do perhaps? 00:45:42 under this nick, I'm like elliott but even more obnoxious 00:45:53 *are* you elliott? 00:46:01 um 00:46:01 YES 00:46:03 I am. 00:46:10 awe kay 00:46:14 elliott: we can't be seen together from now on 00:46:24 -!- elliott has left ("roger that"). 00:47:39 I will have to re-evaluate your existance based on these new facts 00:47:50 *reëvaluate 00:48:23 as will I 00:48:43 good! it will do you none 00:49:20 -!- elliott has joined. 00:51:52 oops 00:51:53 -!- ZOMGMODULES has left. 00:52:23 *are* you elliott? <-- hm probably not "+ ZOMGMODULES (~catseye@adsl-99-92-177-115.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) has left #esoteric" 00:52:44 olsner, "catseye" 00:52:50 Vorpal: a user name of "catseye" is not exactly hard to fake 00:52:55 olsner, indeed 00:53:11 and I have no idea where elliott would connect from 00:54:52 + [ZOMGMODULES] (~catseye@adsl-99-92-177-115.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net): Chris Pressey. whois fails badly. on the ip 00:54:59 but I can get that ISP is based in US 00:55:28 whois fails on any subdomain to sbcglobal.net 00:55:35 sense you're making: scant if at all 00:55:36 -!- NOT-ZOMGMODULES has joined. 00:55:44 olsner, heh 00:55:45 me sleep 00:55:45 NEVER HEARD OF HIM 00:55:56 you *do* act like elliott however. 00:56:34 olsner, cya 00:56:41 NOT-ZOMGMODULES: "HIM" is (I believe) some kind of pop music 00:59:42 wait what. Ads in whois result 00:59:50 (from the registrar, but still..) 01:00:11 Harmony In Motion 01:13:53 have mini repl. seems to be behaving as i expect 01:15:05 Now I need to implement the actual hard parts of the evaluator 01:15:45 D'oh, definitely need a photon tracer >_> 01:15:47 SO SLOW 01:15:51 SO INEFFICIENT 01:15:54 SO ... necessary. 01:16:41 Mainly because I can't figure out how to invert that if the photons are of normal orientation but the viewer is reoriented :P 01:18:05 Ohwait, yes I do 8-D 01:18:10 OK, raytracing it is :) 01:18:21 (Going backwards in time) 01:26:34 Gregor, what are you trying to do? 01:26:47 * Sgeo wants there to be a raytracer that does relativity 01:27:19 CONSIDER: A machine that allows you to "reorient" yourself relative to the physical and temporal dimensions, so that one of the physical dimensions becomes time, and time is experienced as a physical dimension. 01:27:39 Sgeo: there is one. I remember seeing images it made, in the 90's. 01:28:04 Gregor, isn't that something like that in black holes, or is that a common misconception, or am I misremembering something I recently read? 01:28:19 Sgeo: That's just intense time dilation. 01:29:40 -!- calamari has joined. 01:29:49 http://www.photon.at/~werner/bh/gvsim.html 01:29:52 I wanna go inside! 01:30:00 And I want to make my own! 01:30:07 I don't want to write a raytracer ... maybe there's one that doesn't suck that I can modify ... a lot ... 01:30:35 POV-Ray sucks? (Is POV-Ray open source?) 01:30:46 "that I can modify a lot" 01:30:51 POV-Ray does WAY more than I need for this. 01:30:53 And is huge. 01:31:04 modifying someone else's raytracer implementation, always a great way to kill a week or two or ninety-five 01:31:05 I wonder if that guy ever opened up vivid 01:31:07 Aw screw it, I've written ray-tracers, I can write another one X-P 01:31:47 calamari, vivid? 01:32:01 vivid was a ray tracer I used back in the ms-dos days 01:32:16 it was much faster than pov-ray at the time and had better quality 01:32:34 but it was closed 01:33:57 Stephen Coy, Christopher Watkins and Mark Finlay co-authored a book 01:33:57 on Ray Tracing called "Photorealism and Ray Tracing in C". 01:33:57 Distributed free with the book was an example ray tracer called BOB. 01:34:23 The thing is, for what I need, I need a HORRIBLY broken raytracer :P 01:34:38 Gregor, broken? 01:34:39 Why? 01:34:53 I mean, unless you mean broken in that your modifications mess with it 01:35:29 I'm essentially using a raytracer as a backwards photon mapper, but I have to maintain the actual time it takes for photons to get to their destination (as opposed to a conventional raytracer which considers light to be infinitely fast) since time is a physical dimension. 01:35:46 "maybe there's one that doesn't suck that I can modify" ...vs... "I need a HORRIBLY broken raytracer" 01:37:16 "doesn't suck" in the "is relatively modular and modifiable sense" 01:37:23 And yes, modifying a good one into this nonsense would be better. 01:38:12 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:38:36 sounds like you'd be better off starting from scratch hehe 01:39:14 Actually, wait ... argh ... since the photons you're perceiving aren't themselves reoriented, all you would actually see is identical to if you were just slowly moving in one dimension ... 01:39:41 Is it possible to add polarization as well? 01:40:00 Would it be useful to do so? 01:40:59 zzo38: I'm not sure, but considering my mind can barely comprehend what I have already, I don't want to :P 01:41:16 ... reoriented light, standard orientation observer. *brain axplotes* 01:43:01 Simplified, what you see at any given instant is all the photons that hit the point in spacetime represented by your eye at that instant. The fact that the movement of this point is along a different axis than everything else is wholly irrelevant, photons are still photons. 01:44:19 Let's ignore for a moment the fact that the photons are, from your perspective, immobile, and so probably imperceptible >_> 01:44:56 Also let's ignore the fact that if photons are immobile, NOTHING makes sense. 01:45:14 Make it so the angle of the switching between time and space dimensions can be anything 01:46:05 Doesn't make any difference, now you're just /slowly/ experiencing time while sliding /slowly/ in one dimension. 02:11:13 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:11:45 -!- augur has joined. 02:13:17 I'm essentially using a raytracer as a backwards photon mapper, but I have to maintain the actual time it takes for photons to get to their destination [...] <-- wouldn't this just be the length of the ray? 02:24:00 I started writing a raytracer once but never finished it... 02:25:35 for(x=0:100){for(y=0:100){r=Ray(x,y);c=black;for(o:scene)if(r.intersect(o)){c=white;break};plot(x,y,c)}} 02:25:51 * Sgeo just spend $100 of his dad's money 02:25:54 that's pretty much it. well, you have to implement the Ray class, and objects and stuff 02:25:59 Um.. well, my dad spend it, I guess 02:26:11 I think he's expecting me to pay him back.. which I will, I guess 02:27:35 all my objects were spheres, and it's pretty easy to tell when a line has intersected a sphere... hey so why did I never finish it? 02:27:40 NOT-ZOMGMODULES: That is the length of the ray, but remember that time is now a /location/, I thought (incorrectly) that I had to distinguish the parts of the ray corresponding to frames in the animation. 02:27:44 Sgeo: what'd ya buy? 02:28:03 NOT-ZOMGMODULES, sponsorship of Grandroids 02:28:18 Although I'm a bit torn about that extra $25 just to get a thank you in the credits 02:32:07 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1508284443/grandroids-real-artificial-life-on-your-pc 02:32:57 -!- elliott has joined. 02:33:19 Hi elliott. I just spend an extra $25 on something just so my name would be included 02:33:27 NOT-ZOMGMODULES: hi 02:33:43 hi 02:33:48 Sgeo: TOO MUCH MONEY DERP 02:33:56 wat 02:34:28 elliott: Sgeo just bought real artificial life. I think this makes him a slave owner? 02:34:41 * NOT-ZOMGMODULES SEES WORLD VERY CLEARLY, VERY VERY 02:34:53 I own a cat. 02:34:55 SHE IS MY SLAVE. 02:35:12 NOT-ZOMGMODULES: absolutely 02:35:22 Gregor, you don't torture your cat the way I've tortured norns before... 02:35:24 after what he did to norns, how is he still allowed to adopt virtual life? 02:35:39 I don't think that how you treat your slaves affects whether they're slaves or not... 02:37:33 Hmm 02:37:43 I think I inflicted actual pain only on a very few 02:37:57 Usually it's death or blindness or the like 02:42:27 00:55:56: you *do* act like elliott however. 02:42:28 that's low 02:42:33 i wouldn't say anything like that ever 02:42:35 not even to my worst enemy 02:43:08 01:30:07: I don't want to write a raytracer ... maybe there's one that doesn't suck that I can modify ... a lot ... 02:43:13 Gregor: Dude, raytracers only take a couple thousand of lines :P 02:43:26 elliott: I'm not writing it. Upon further thought the result would be really boring. 02:43:32 Gregor: ...why? 02:43:47 Lemme copy my quote from above ...' 02:44:03 I mean, it's obvious what the result would look like, but it's still a useful intuitive tool. 02:44:09 Simplified, what you see at any given instant is all the photons that hit the point in spacetime represented by your eye at that instant. The fact that the movement of this point is along a different axis than everything else is wholly irrelevant, photons are still photons. 02:44:30 ...well duh, don't simulate PHOTONS with the same reorientation. 02:44:32 All you would see is time frozen as you slide slowly along one axis. 02:44:43 You're meant to pretend you have a magical camera that works by magic. 02:44:45 No, this is unreoriented photons. 02:44:47 Oh. 02:44:50 What about reoriented photons. 02:45:01 That's precisely like looking at somebody reoriented while you're not. 02:45:17 I don't think that how you treat your slaves affects whether they're slaves or not... <-- what if you free them? OMGZEN 02:45:46 Gregor: Yes... the point is that the WHOLE SCENE is reoriented :P 02:45:58 Which is important, because that's what the reoriented view of a 3D reorientation game would look like. 02:46:47 Bleh, fine, I'll write it :P 02:47:00 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:47:22 -!- augur has joined. 02:48:11 Gregor: Oh, and make sure it can do colours separately of all the photon mess... so that you can identify objects in the scene when reoriented X-D 02:49:58 OK, assuming that photons from your perspective are immobile, and that you carry a lightsource with you through the machine, there's an excuse :P 02:50:09 Gregor: Wut? :P 02:50:20 For why there are reoriented photons to see. 02:50:24 Right :P 02:50:35 Gregor: btw an IRL one of these things is possibly the most disturbing machine i can imagine 02:50:41 8-D 02:50:46 even the idea of some... repeated carpet... 02:50:53 like 02:50:57 an atom-thin slice of carpet 02:51:00 repeated 02:51:01 euuurgh 02:51:29 Gregor: Also, AFAICT, in a still-in-normal-world scene, when you reorient, everything would start moving towards you :P 02:51:48 Gregor: EXERCISE: Figure out what the fuck happens when a reoriented person collides with what is in non-oriented-world a normal wall. 02:52:01 elliott: The universe explodes. 02:52:24 Gregor: A PERFECT IRL machine would do it at the quark level though. 02:52:33 Gregor: So basically, you go through the machine, and emerge in a world without any complete, proper atoms. 02:52:43 elliott: YOUR MOM WOULD DO IT AT THE QUARK LEVEL 02:53:03 THAT'S THE ONLY WAY ANYBODY _CAN_ DO IT WITH YOU 02:53:08 ANYTHING ELSE AND THE SCALE'S ALL WRONG 02:54:03 Gregor: I'm totally nightmare-fueling about this machine now :P 02:55:00 "For Time—in its relativity, brutality and absurdity— is one of "Friday"'s great targets. In an instant day passes to night, and the realism of the bus stop gives way to a surreal blue-screen panorama of a full moon and false city running on loop as Ms. Black rides in the convertible, apparent-heiress to the grand American tradition of high school cruising, that curious space birthed by Cold War highways (themselves relics of our atomic fears 02:55:01 ) in which teenagers first experienced themselves as such." 02:55:02 http://www.theawl.com/2011/03/arms-so-freezy-rebecca-blacks-friday-as-radical-text 02:55:55 ok i have decided... 02:56:00 "onanistic recursion" 02:56:24 i, i, i 02:56:38 ok i have decided to change Bizaaro-Pixley in several ways 02:57:13 it now looks like this: *[*let [[a b] *a]] 02:57:22 NOT-ZOMGMODULES: wow, now it's even more like Nock! 02:57:33 may I suggest replacing * with ' for maximum consuion 02:57:35 sooperfishilly 02:57:47 ' for eval, huh 02:57:50 that would be ironic 02:57:52 and [] with () 02:57:57 '('let ((a b) 'a)) 02:58:01 OUCH 02:58:03 :DDD 02:58:10 perhaps, perhaps 02:58:14 I Can't Believe It's Not Lisp 02:58:33 NOT-ZOMGMODULES: or no no no wait 02:58:35 [] with )( 02:58:40 ')'let ))a b( 'a(( 02:58:44 beautiful 02:58:51 nug 02:58:58 NO 02:59:03 replace * with ( 02:59:08 ( with ' 02:59:12 and ) with > 02:59:29 ('(let ''a b> (a>> 03:00:21 "New engine sends shockwaves through auto industry - 3.5x more efficient, doesn't require cooling system, transmission, or fluids" 03:00:22 or energy. 03:00:25 or a driver. 03:00:29 or matter. 03:00:56 and it discloses to you this one weird old tip to shed belly fat 03:01:06 discovered by a mom? 03:01:17 a WORK AT HOME mom, yes. 03:01:24 -!- sftp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:01:44 from UNBIASED NEWSPAPER 03:01:47 *Advertising website 03:02:00 acai berry! it works so cheap! as seen on fox news! 03:02:07 ok let's stop this before it gets out of hand 03:08:52 "We have a dangerous mission ahead of us." "I understand ... get the ship's counselor." 03:12:28 Gregor: Yes, before a dangerous mission it's important to get some... therapy... 03:12:50 elliott: ST:TNG :P 03:13:37 But I've improved it: "We have a dangerous mission, lives are at risk. Assemble an away team." "Counselor, doctor, you're with me." 03:13:38 Gregor: I WAS TRYING TO IMPLY THAT TROI IS ONLY ON THE BRIDGE BECAUSE PICARD ET AL. FIND HER SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE AND ALSO HAVE RELATIONS WITH HER ON A REGULAR BASIS UNDER THE GUISE OF "THERAPY" 03:13:51 there, happy now that we've thrown british subtlety out of the window in favour of american sledgehammering? 03:14:10 elliott: NUH UH IT'S BECAUSE SHE CARRIES THE RANK OF A LIEUTENANT COMMANDER FOR SOME NEVER-EXPLAINED REASON 03:14:31 Gregor: Because she commands all the crew's... lieutenants... 03:14:33 SORRY 03:14:47 ... perfect :P 03:14:50 *leftenants 03:15:02 elliott: It's still spelled lieutenant 03:15:09 *spelt 03:15:11 SHUT UP 03:15:14 YOU'RE CANADIAN 03:15:15 WHAT WOULD YOU KNOW 03:15:22 leftenant (plural leftenants) 03:15:22 An archaic spelling of lieutenant. 03:15:22 HA 03:15:30 elliott: "archaic" 03:15:38 WELL I'M A CONSERVATIVE 03:15:39 BITCH 03:15:55 hmm, i wonder what force of logic allows lieutenant to be pronounced in the uk way 03:16:19 also the canadian way. that force of logic is called FRENCH 03:16:50 Quebecois, thankyouverymuch 03:17:12 coppro: it's still spelt "fag" 03:17:13 Gregor: they gave the reason for lt com.. she got involved with picard before.. she gave favors, she got favors 03:17:16 or 03:17:20 it's still spelt "french" 03:17:23 dunno which is more offensive/funny 03:17:43 calamari: you mean this is CANON? 8D 03:18:03 not at all, I'm making it up :P 03:18:22 then it's fake canon 03:18:25 10x better 03:18:29 (AKA fanon ;D) 03:18:40 but I'm pretty sure it was canon that they had some kind of relationship inthe past 03:18:51 Uhh, no :P 03:19:33 is there any evidence to suggest picard hasn't had sex with everyone on the enterprise? 03:19:35 i think not 03:19:36 discuss 03:20:00 elliott: I don't think picard is into male klingons 03:20:11 coppro: that's not evidence against 03:20:18 one, there is no evidence he ISN'T into male klingons 03:20:18 No, they're into him BA-DUM 03:20:26 two, you can have sex with people you're not attracted to 03:20:30 evidence discounted 03:20:43 elliott: occam's razor; evidence readmitted 03:20:51 coppro: uhh 03:20:53 coppro: this is star trek 03:21:00 occam's razor is disproved on a weekly basis 03:21:01 Jack later served aboard the USS Stargazer under Picard, and the couple became good friends with the captain. Picard later admitted he had fallen in love with Beverly, but did not ever express his feelings because he felt that doing so would betray his friend. <---- lies.. they totally f***ed 03:21:06 evidence rediscounted 03:22:36 yep 03:22:37 i win 03:25:12 -!- joojii has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:27:52 elliott: no; that discount isn't valid in that sector after 3:00 AM 03:28:07 coppro: fuck you, i'm a bear 03:30:31 well 03:30:33 goodnight :) 03:30:45 tswett: i'll talk wrt normish tomorrow 03:30:47 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:48:21 -!- lament has joined. 03:58:30 -!- NOT-ZOMGMODULES has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:00:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:00:58 Is it fine enough measurements if the space factors are in different units that 40 is the normal space value instead of 1000, and where 255 is the maximum? 04:02:09 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:05:06 -!- pumpkin has joined. 04:05:39 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:16:25 * Sgeo wants to see the pre-6th-edition rules of Magic 04:16:33 I do vaguely remember Interrupts 04:16:46 Yes they did have Interrupts, which are no longer used. 04:17:15 There are various things about the rules (any editions) which I do not like, although there are many good rules, too. 04:17:37 Such as, I do not like they removed mana burn. 04:26:12 I do not even know if this still works in the modern rules: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Magic_The_Gathering_card_deck_of_programming_language 04:29:35 Do you know this? 04:30:38 -!- augur has joined. 04:33:25 Wait, the body of the first concept wasn't yours? 04:33:28 * Sgeo mindboggles 04:34:22 It was my idea, but I did not write most of the text on that page. 04:36:00 -!- pumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 04:37:34 I am trying to write a program which estimates values of chess pieces by calculating the resistance between every pair of cells on the board. 04:38:03 resistance? 04:38:52 Yes, the resistance, in ohms. 04:39:07 I know it is stragne but it is an experiment I can try. 04:41:37 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:50:13 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:57:44 -!- jcp has joined. 05:01:46 -!- copumpkin has joined. 05:06:52 is there a good way to compress very short strings of english text? 05:07:18 Like, how short do you mean? 05:22:40 -!- sftp has joined. 05:50:22 shorter than the original message 05:51:25 -!- asiekierka has joined. 05:55:38 I don't know which ways are best. I suppose usually English text consists of letters and spaces, and some punctuation, and some letters/punctuation are less common than others. There is also combinations that might be more likely or less likely than others. 05:59:29 Do you think prime numbers are of any use in estimating values of chess pieces? 06:29:24 -!- ais523 has joined. 06:39:25 -!- pingveno has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:41:12 -!- pingveno has joined. 07:15:30 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:51:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 07:53:00 -!- impomatic has joined. 07:53:04 Hi :-) 07:53:53 Hi!!!!! 07:54:29 hi... 07:54:36 OK 07:54:51 Hi zzo38, ais523 :-) 07:55:36 OK, do you have anything else to discussion or do you want for something else to be typed? (In case of the second way, you might look at recent logs in case you are interested in it) 08:19:34 * impomatic has a few new dev boards and is trying to figure out how to do something useful with them. 08:22:02 What kind of dev boards do you have? 08:24:53 Arduino, Minimus, Maximus, Altera Max, eZ430, ST7, TI Launchpad, Micropendous3 08:26:08 The trouble with the Minimus and Maximus is they're also used for PS Jailbreak, so most of the stuff I find online is about Jailbreak :-( 08:46:16 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 08:49:01 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:56:14 impomatic, hm, what are Minimus and Maximus then? It seems strange to me some random development boards would be used for jail break. 08:56:36 or do you mean the words are used? 08:56:53 No, the dev boards are used: http://minimususb.com or http://www.teensy.co.uk/Maximus-AVR-USB-v1.2-inc-Case/c17/index.html 08:57:16 impomatic, what would make them more fit for jail breaking, as opposed to other boards? 08:58:32 No sure. They're pretty cheap and built into a USB stick 08:59:05 impomatic, for a development board that sounds impractical. *opens browser to look at how many IO pins they have* 09:00:06 impomatic, wait what, the latter link has AVR in the page and also PIC18F4550 09:00:08 now I'm confused 09:00:32 Minimus appears to have access to all pins. Maximus 1.0 only has access to a few. Not sure about Maximus 1.2 (which is still in the post). 09:01:16 That one confused me too... I'll open it up when it arrives! Maximus 1.0 is definitely AVR. Maximus 1.2 isn't really clear :-) 09:01:56 impomatic, for sake of sanity I hope it isn't PIC! Though I only programmed PIC12 series. I guess PIC18 series is not quite as bad 09:16:36 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:20:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:23:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:27:55 occam's razor is disproved on a weekly basis 09:28:13 so you are saying that you are discounting occam's razor as not being the simplest explanation? 09:39:07 -!- Zuu has joined. 09:40:08 @tell elliott TV TROPES INSANITY CONTINUES: I swear they've started filtering out swearwords. 09:40:09 Consider it noted. 09:44:31 Vorpal: TI also has one built-into-USB-stick MSP430 series devel-board, https://estore.ti.com/EZ430-F2013-MSP430-USB-Stick-Development-Tool-P800.aspx 09:45:33 Vorpal: The "more information" page says it has "14 user accessible pins"; here's a pic: http://focus.ti.com/graphics/tool/ez430-f2013.jpg 09:46:26 (That F2013 chip is quite a small one.) 09:56:47 "Erdős may instead be exemplifying the “Lazarus Effect’: according to this list he has published 34 papers since 1999. Allowing 2–3 years as a typical upper bound on gestation for a journal paper, this would seem to indicate a fair bit of effort since his death in 1996." 09:56:57 (http://rjlipton.wordpress.com/2011/04/08/why-is-everything-named-after-gauss/) 09:57:45 Then it must be someone else with the same name or using a pseudonym 09:58:34 (That F2013 chip is quite a small one.) <-- quite. 09:58:35 i would _guess_ it is people adding his name as a joke, because of erdős numbers 09:58:54 That could be it, too. 09:59:17 some of the papers might still be based on his work, perhaps 09:59:48 Maybe it is. 10:04:11 fizzie, I have to say I'm more used to huge development boards, where you have hundreds of pins for various purposes around. 10:04:21 I have a F2013 here. 10:06:23 http://www.gaussfacts.com/random 10:07:05 oklopol: especially for you ^ 10:09:49 Vorpal: Those tend to cost a bit more, too; I guess the cheapest end ones tend to be rather spartan. 10:10:25 right 10:10:39 fizzie, I mostly used development boards at university. 10:10:58 fizzie, often with fancy debugging over JTAG interfaces and what not 10:12:32 lol: http://youtu.be/-jm942TrsK4 10:19:17 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 10:20:16 The DSP devboards we had were rather on the large side, too. Well, at least compared to these microcontroller boards. http://www.spectrumdigital.com/product_info.php?&products_id=100 is one of them. 10:25:30 * oerjan reads today's iwc and recalls doing the exact opposite of that 10:25:37 *iwc annotation 10:26:51 that is, crumpling foil wrapper to turn it into little "crystal" balls 10:27:29 this obviously means i must be dmm's secret nemesis. 10:34:07 -!- Wamanuz2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:35:43 -!- asiekierka has joined. 10:55:01 -!- FireFly has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 10:55:29 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 10:57:38 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 11:03:56 "Gauss classified the finite groups. When he was finished with the simple ones, there were none left." 11:03:58 :D 11:08:01 "Gauss has an Erdos number of -1." why isn't there a gauss number 11:09:35 I'm confused, because I almost certainly have an Erdős number, but don't know what it is 11:10:01 (also, when I loaded up Character Map to copy-paste the ő, I found it was already selected so I didn't have to go look for it, which is nice; I must have had to type Erdős before) 11:11:32 fizzie, most dev boards I have seen had sockets for various different CPUs from the same family. I think I saw an AVR one that had like 14 or 15 different CPU sockets on it. 11:11:38 ṏ 11:11:40 What. 11:12:32 Phantom_Hoover: the pinouts are usually the same, it's just that the packages differ in size 11:12:53 so you'll have like concentric pinouts on the pcb where the leads go straight through the pads 11:15:06 ais523: there are websites that give you an upper bound 11:15:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:16:01 I can't find the 14-socket one atm, but this one is also pretty impressive in terms of number of IO pinshttp://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.kamami.pl/published/publicdata/BTC10/attachments/SC/products_pictures/stk600.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.kamami.pl/index.php%3Fukey%3Dproduct%26productID%3D46340%26did%3D34%26view%3Dprintable&usg=__XDa0lEfhhT8nIvazCos8fF5LX2I=&h=275&w=300&sz=37&hl=en&start=0 11:16:01 &zoom=1&tbnid=gvJX_07o7Jp2fM:&tbnh=124&tbnw=135&ei=bj-gTar3LYrZtAa1kPCVBw&prev=/images%3Fq%3DSTK600%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:unofficial%26biw%3D1556%26bih%3D667%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=289&vpy=332&dur=292&hovh=215&hovw=235&tx=86&ty=103&oei=bj-gTar3LYrZtAa1kPCVBw&page=1&ndsp=32&ved=1t:429,r:17,s:0: 11:16:04 argh the url 11:16:08 was it that long... 11:16:25 well, here is a direct link: http://www.kamami.pl/published/publicdata/BTC10/attachments/SC/products_pictures/stk600.jpg 11:16:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:18:43 XD 11:18:50 Phantom_Hoover, ? 11:19:23 The TV Tropes So Bad It's Horrible pages have fanfic divided into *7* alphabetical subsections. 11:19:58 http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/tools_card.asp?tool_id=2735 is not quite the 14-socket one either. But it has a respectable 8 CPU sockets. I used that one at university. I have no clue why it has two of each size of CPU socket. Possibly for dual-CPU development? 11:20:10 Since the output ports are not duplicated... 11:22:10 Gauss can get to the other side of a Mbius strip. 11:24:43 "Gauss can comb Poincar's hairy balls" what :D 11:24:57 oklopol, you get that, surely? 11:24:58 Heh, I got that one too. 11:25:03 i get it 11:25:08 And by "got" I mean "received from the random-lister page". 11:25:24 but that was kinda 11:25:33 I think it was kinda oko. 11:25:47 You're all about hairy balls, aren't you? 11:25:51 yes, i agree, it was kinda stupid 11:26:02 well i love balls 11:38:35 there should be webpages like that gauss thing for more specific topics 11:39:41 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.5.18/20110319140258]). 11:41:44 gauss can construct a nonplanar graph such that no subdivisions of K_5 appear as a subgraph, and every subgraph that is a subdivision of K_{3,3} has itself a planar embedding 11:45:26 gauss can construct a subset S of 1^* such that for every problem L subset {0, 1}^* for which there exists a nondeterministic turing machine A and a polynomial p such that L is exactly the set of words w for which there exist an accepting run of A of length p(|w|), there also exists a function g in FP such that u is in S if and only if g(s) is in L 11:45:31 erm 11:45:46 last thing is backwards 11:46:13 .., there also exists a function g in FP such that s is in L if and only if g(s) is in S 11:46:49 (that's a stronger theorem than i proved yesterday but if you look at the proof you note that S doesn't actually need to be in NP) 11:47:09 or was it yesteryesterday 11:48:07 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: Insanity is the best policy.). 11:48:54 i should make my own gauss page, drop gauss and call it "false things that are close to a true thing" 11:48:59 hilarity would ensue 11:50:40 but i suppose they should start with an existential quantifier (replacing the current gauss quantifier "gauss can X") 11:50:59 so that you have a clear impossibility you can laugh at 11:51:12 like a single totally crazy object like that S there 11:53:14 i think i have to escape this heated discussion before it becomes a flamewar 11:54:01 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:54:28 -!- copumpkin has joined. 11:54:33 -!- copumpkin has quit (Changing host). 11:54:33 -!- copumpkin has joined. 11:55:56 i hate you guys 11:56:28 oerjan: come play mangle the theorem with me 12:01:28 gauss can construct an algebra with underlying set S and a unary operation * such that there exist elements e != f such that both e and f are identity elements with respect to * 12:06:49 Well, off to Venice. 12:07:02 -!- asiekierka has joined. 12:07:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:10:11 klop: how does he do it? 12:10:40 how should i know 12:11:13 especially as the proof that it's impossible takes about 10 characters 12:11:26 or i guess 6 12:15:37 Wenn man auf einem Taschenrechner 707 eingibt und den Taschenrechner umdreht, erscheint das Wort "LOL". Addiert man dann zu diesem "LOL" ein weiteres, dann ist das Ergebnis "hihi". 12:15:44 haha 12:15:56 funny 12:16:09 my algebra joke was funnier though 12:16:42 oklopol: i didn't realize it was a joke, i thought it was really truth for some very odd definition of "algebra" 12:16:56 no usual definition 12:17:08 operation = * has type S x S -> S 12:17:37 * :: (a, a) -> a ? 12:17:38 e identity = e * x = x * e = e for all x in S 12:17:51 what are a in there 12:17:59 S is the underlying set 12:18:28 because a \in S. 12:18:41 obviously (S, S) -> S would be an operation on sets 12:18:45 say, intersection. 12:19:24 i just assumed you used (A, B) notation instead of A x B, it makes more sense 12:19:29 but okay 12:19:32 then the answer is no 12:19:45 why would (a, a) go to a? 12:20:11 oklopol: because multiply(x, y) has two parameters and one result. 12:20:36 yes, and yet multiply(a, a) is not necessarily a 12:20:51 except when gauss does it 12:21:22 http://learnyouahaskell.com/types-and-typeclasses#type-variables 12:21:48 have a read from a website i helped create, it has nice pictures. 12:22:32 so you did mean SxS by (S,S) 12:22:50 and a was just S 12:23:22 no, a is the type of elements from S. it is not S. 12:23:37 they have different meta-data. 12:23:47 in mathematical notation you would say S x S -> S 12:23:52 if you want to have an artificial difference, of course you can have that, but there's really no need for that. 12:24:14 no need, but i'm just telling you why i denoted it differently 12:24:45 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:24:47 sure 12:25:22 in any case, yes, * :: (a, a) -> a, where a is the type of elements of S 12:25:26 that's what a binary op is 12:26:01 i prefer to think of it as a subset of the cartesian product of S^2 and S such that each element of S^2 has a unique image 12:28:04 you mean well-defined binary operator 12:28:15 i mean a fucking function from S^2 to S 12:28:30 if it's not well-defined it can yield results that are not a, or not be defined at all 12:28:33 which is fun sometimes 12:28:51 also is a fucking function like an orgy in a church with candles and stuff 12:28:55 -!- coppro has joined. 12:29:01 because that sounds fun too 12:29:04 uhhuh. and i guess it could also be an elephant given the right isomorphism. 12:29:13 :D 12:29:17 i guess 12:32:01 you know, they say a good scientist can take a single dot on a blackboard and extrapolate it into an elephan 12:32:02 t 12:32:49 gauss can extrapolate it into a mastodon 12:38:46 riemann can extrapolate it into a mouse 12:51:40 -!- FireFly has joined. 12:54:06 -!- Wamanuz has joined. 13:26:45 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:26:55 -!- asiekierka has joined. 14:23:51 -!- azaq23 has joined. 14:34:16 -!- elliott has joined. 14:35:24 05:06:52: is there a good way to compress very short strings of english text? 14:35:24 elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 14:35:26 huffmand 14:35:28 *huffman 14:35:29 duh 14:35:30 or similar 14:37:27 09:27:55: occam's razor is disproved on a weekly basis 14:37:27 09:28:13: so you are saying that you are discounting occam's razor as not being the simplest explanation? 14:37:29 :D 15:04:36 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:06:23 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:21:19 elliott: how dare you insult Occam? :P 15:21:28 tswett: in the context of star trek 15:21:37 Ah. Go ahead, then. 15:21:46 You have my blessings. Tentatively. 15:21:52 So, elliott, guess what day it is! 15:21:55 It's tomorrow! 15:21:55 I feel strangely... blessed, somehow. 15:22:01 tswett: Wow!!!! 15:22:06 Jump on an altar and see if it's true. 15:22:13 Everyone is here... in the future! http://everyoneishereinthefuture.com/one.html 15:23:17 tswett: nope, I checked. It's still today 15:23:52 Everyone is... no longer here... in the past. 15:23:54 *Nobody is 15:23:58 coppro: but today is Friday (speaking in terms of yesterday), meaning today, Saturday, must be tomorrow. 15:24:06 And Sunday comes after. 15:24:25 Sunday: the most extreme day of the week. 15:24:35 Why made this? 15:24:59 Sgeo: are you speaking of a person known as Why who seems to have made something? 15:25:15 Sgeo: Yes. 15:25:28 tswett: "Why" is an abbreviation for "why the lucky stiff". 15:25:35 The this in question is Everyone is here... in the future! http://everyoneishereinthefuture.com/one.html. 15:25:50 elliott, but the question _also_ sounds like a weird grammatical ... oddity 15:26:49 Oh, he's the guy that made that poignant guide to Ruby. 15:26:53 What in Jebus' name 15:27:00 Gregor: WHY 15:27:05 Is he trying to make a point, or just smoking a lot of pot? 15:27:25 Gregor: Everyone is here in the future! 15:28:06 Also: 15:28:12 Everyone is here in the future EXCEPT FOR WHY 15:28:14 lololol 15:28:34 He just SKIPPED AHEAD INTO THE EVEN FURTHER FUTURE 15:33:15 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:40:58 -!- azaq23 has joined. 15:44:00 Gregor: http://www.tenshu.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/2007-07-29-terminator-02-large21.png <-- GUI screen :P 15:45:13 elliott: YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS 15:45:41 Gregor: http://www.tenshu.net/terminator/ 15:47:06 SLOWEST LOADING PAGE EVER YESSSSSSSS 15:51:27 are there version control systems where the changesets form a category (a cs is an arrow)? 15:52:38 darcs? 15:54:38 hmm i was thinking of something else 15:54:48 basically of being able to reach any combination of changesets 15:57:36 like say you'd take any set of changes, and it would generate code that is valid 15:58:08 maybe it wouldn't do much (e.g. define functions which don't get called) but it would still be correct code that does what you want it to (hence you only selected those changesets) 15:59:23 that is pretty much the goal of darcs's theory of patches 15:59:26 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:59:41 no, the goal of darcs' theory of patches is to look reasonable if you don't look too closely 16:00:19 Mathnerd314: cool, how is that different from e.g. what bzr does? 16:01:32 I don't know bzr, so I don't know 16:02:16 -!- sftp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:05:44 but git stores files instead of changesets, so the idea doesn't really arise 16:05:54 yeah git is stupid 16:07:23 see http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Understanding_Darcs/Patch_theory 16:08:25 lol: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ri796Hx8las 16:08:58 question "plz compare hg to perforce and are you gonna use hg?" answer: "at google we are unique in that we have one giant repository for everything." 16:11:40 That ... is unique. 16:11:41 Mathnerd314: reading, thanx 16:11:51 -!- sftp has joined. 16:11:51 Gregor: yeah, lol. 16:12:03 elliott: THEY NEED SCAPE🐐 16:12:05 Gregor: probably the worst google talk i've seen. 16:12:13 Gregor: What, patch theory? 16:12:21 elliott: Google 16:12:35 elliott: Oh yeah, you have cheater00 blocked, don'tcha :P 16:12:37 Gregor: and they don't seem to have sandwiches there, which they had on all talks i've been to 16:13:21 elliott: THEY NEED 🐐 SANDWICHES 16:13:27 Gamwiches. 16:15:00 Mathnerd314: that looks really cool 16:15:32 Mathnerd314: but what if i have one changeset A which defines s_list, and another which adds pasta to s_list 16:15:40 Mathnerd314: that one is called B 16:15:56 Mathnerd314: and i ONLY apply B. will that define s_list with the sole element of pasta? 16:16:09 Gregor: HMPH 16:16:54 Gregor: what is this unicode character you are using? 16:16:57 Gregor, 🐐 <-- whoa, that shows up as [01F410], which is quite a bit longer than usual. What is it supposed to be? 16:17:46 Vorpal: too slow! :p 16:17:47 🐐 regrets your inability to render him. 16:18:29 Gregor, point me to a font that has it. 16:18:39 and that I could get on linux 16:19:54 Vorpal: To my knowledge there is no font that supports it yet, but it is in Unicode so nyaa. 16:20:09 Gregor, so you can't see it either? 16:20:18 Gregor, so what is it supposed to be? 16:20:26 It's GOAT. 16:20:40 My 🐐 has a 🐐ee. 16:20:51 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:21:46 huh, gogling for it turns up nothing relevant. Only a handful hits. And in all cases it is memory addresses or MAC addresses instead. 16:21:49 Gregor, so wtf 16:22:20 Gregor, which unicode version should I look in for this? 16:22:20 Your refusal to support the new era of Unicode GOAT disappoints me. 16:22:36 Gregor, wait, is this from the private use area? 16:22:53 ... no, that's not part of Unicode X_X 16:22:58 right 16:23:07 Gregor, is this in version 6 or version 7? 16:23:10 http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f410/index.htm 16:23:13 second google result for "unicode goat" 16:23:18 vorpal is either a liar or can't type two words 16:23:53 elliott, I googled for 1f410... (and U+1f410 and so on). Weird I got no hits on that 16:24:00 For what it's worth, it's also the first result for "u+1f410" 16:24:49 wait, I typed an extra zero at the start. Which should be equivalent. And was how text rendering showed it here (probably rounds up to even number of hex digits) 16:25:24 elliott, are there other animals around that code point or what? 16:25:26 does it find the page if you search without the zero? 16:25:27 It's certainly not Google-equivalent. 16:25:39 Vorpal: it's a zodiac sign. 16:25:52 cheater00, yep it finds it then 16:25:56 Gregor, aha 16:26:50 http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f3e9/index.htm <-- another zodiac sign 16:27:31 Err, that's an emoji 16:27:34 :P 16:29:13 NO 16:29:16 I was born under that sign. 16:31:27 Gregor was also born in the Year of the Whorehouse. 16:31:31 *Chinese Year 16:34:24 That's "love hotel" 16:37:21 Gregor: No, love hotel is the zodiac sign, silly. 16:45:10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3O3UHSGLng 16:46:00 -!- lament has joined. 16:57:45 -!- azaq23 has joined. 17:02:30 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:04:08 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:04:48 hi oerjan 17:05:08 g'day 17:05:09 oerjan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 17:05:16 @messages 17:05:17 elliott said 2h 20m 36s ago: Is blatant, persistent lying a bannable offence days? 17:05:38 wat 17:05:41 i don't even remember typing that 17:05:46 no. that's not even grammatical. 17:06:16 * oerjan ponders if _someone_ didn't know that lambdabot could give messages in public 17:07:00 alternatively it _could_ be that the message is self-referential 17:07:19 let's assume the latter for the peace of the channel. 17:08:26 -!- oerjan has left. 17:09:18 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:09:23 ho hum 17:09:23 oerjan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 17:09:28 @messages 17:09:28 lying_scum said 29s ago: Yes, that may be so. 17:09:43 elliott: looks like lambdabot is easy to fool 17:10:12 (possibly leaving the channel before changing nick was excessive) 17:10:50 actually i also wanted to check that lambdabot accepted privmsges outside the channel, so no. 17:11:58 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:16:31 `addquote [After a long monologue] i think i have to escape this heated discussion before it becomes a flamewar 17:16:35 357) [After a long monologue] i think i have to escape this heated discussion before it becomes a flamewar 17:18:00 haha 17:21:13 -!- sftp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:21:39 -!- sftp has joined. 17:22:42 oerjan: do you think fogcreek could be a good place to work? 17:23:12 oerjan: so now, how about a game of mangle-the-theorem? 17:24:32 maybe. 17:24:36 :D 17:24:41 i love you 17:24:47 oh 17:24:53 you were answering cheater00 weren't you 17:24:55 :( 17:25:07 * oklopol sheds tear 17:25:09 i didn't even notice his message actually 17:25:13 ! 17:25:20 i love you 17:25:21 :D 17:25:31 oklopol: i could play with you :p 17:25:38 yes he pinged me but somehow my brain assumed that was just the "haha" message i'd already read 17:25:51 also, i have no idea what fogcreek is 17:26:07 what 17:26:09 really? 17:26:21 yes 17:26:30 um 17:26:33 joel spolsky? 17:26:36 joel on software? 17:26:38 stack overflow? 17:26:41 fogbugz? kiln? 17:26:51 ok i know the first three there 17:26:56 so is that his firm? 17:27:01 yes 17:27:14 i posted a link to their "work for us" ad 17:27:31 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3O3UHSGLng 17:27:47 i'm definitely not the person to ask, anyway. 17:27:59 why? 17:28:06 it's pretty hard to find a nontrivial one that fits in an irc message 17:28:16 if they said "hey oerjan, come work for us" would you do it? 17:28:28 unlikely. 17:28:39 especially if it means going to the US 17:28:49 oerjan: we have a professor spot opening afaik 17:29:33 oerjan: say their offices were in a big city near to where you live 17:29:40 oerjan: would that change anything? 17:29:59 i don't _really_ know who they are, beyond presumably running stack overflow. 17:30:19 i am also not really a programmer. 17:30:31 what are you then? 17:30:51 my education is mathematics. 17:30:57 so's mine 17:33:12 what if they needed a mathematician 17:34:30 lol 17:34:40 how the fuck do you "need" a mathematician :D 17:35:41 well, say you're doing something like realtime and need some differential equations solved 17:35:51 or need someone to help you implement a kalman filter 17:36:07 or need someone to tell you how to optimize your search algorithm 17:40:02 my former coauthor rustad did manage to get a job in the oil industry, i think he's mostly doing numerical simulations 17:40:44 i would like to make a complaint about the use of "manage" in that sentece 17:40:46 *sentence 17:41:15 well, as someone with mainly math education 17:41:34 (he did take a few courses on petroleum simulation though) 17:43:27 also i don't see what's wrong with that "manage" 17:45:10 oerjan: well i'd've rephrased "had to get an inferior job at some stupid oil thingie" 17:45:20 managed sounds like he actually wanted to 17:45:35 oh right 17:45:49 yeah he did sort of give up on staying at university 17:46:17 there weren't enough openings 17:48:25 it's sad that the society tries to force even the intelligent people to do meaningless shit 18:05:26 -!- asiekierka has joined. 18:43:09 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 18:56:51 -!- olsner has joined. 19:01:44 -!- lament has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 19:22:20 http://placekitten.com/ 19:34:59 -!- sftp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:37:04 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:38:28 -!- sftp has joined. 19:55:09 http://software.jessies.org/terminator/ 19:55:19 i almost thought elliott had been involved in this 19:55:22 turns out its elliott hughs 19:55:23 nothurd 19:55:29 hird 19:58:17 -!- elliott has joined. 19:58:27 augur: i've actually used terminator and some other software by him. 19:58:32 (evergreen, lwm) 19:58:41 THE SKYNET IS YOUR FAULT 19:58:53 elliott: YOU AHVE MAGIC D: 19:59:06 also, hey dude 19:59:51 oerjan: pls make http://esolangs.org/wiki/%E2%84%92 less ugly and unreadable 20:00:00 is that 20:00:04 (less ugly) and (unreadable) 20:00:10 or less (ugly and unreadable) 20:00:24 latter 20:00:26 obviously 20:00:33 just making sure! 20:00:43 never know if you want your wikis like your programing languages 20:01:15 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:02:07 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:04:36 IS NOT UGLY. 20:05:50 it is 20:05:59 the paragraph spacing is all off because of the line height being off 20:06:02 because of subscripts and superscripts 20:06:18 see first two paragraphs in computational class section 20:06:22 oerjan: do you like my new user page 20:06:25 http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:ehird 20:06:52 elliott: RECENT DIFFS ARE KIND OF HARD TO READ 20:06:55 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:07:06 wow that's pretty 20:07:13 oerjan: here's the lowdown: FUCK HTML 20:07:15 well 20:07:17 more precisely 20:07:19 FUCK MEDIAWIKI'S IDEA OF HTML 20:07:26 * elliott expands his invention list 20:08:02 elliott: will you be reinventing the web? 20:08:16 olsner: what, in @? 20:09:32 -!- Wamanuz has joined. 20:09:36 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:10:17 fucking html is actually a good idea 20:11:04 (said he, noticing that tim berners-lee has just signed on to freenode.) 20:13:39 -!- Wamanuz has joined. 20:30:32 -!- hiato has joined. 20:31:35 -!- oerjan has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:31:45 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:33:45 elliott: I fear you're overusing [[Category:Shameful]]; the more things it's on, the less the impact 20:34:17 ais523: that's my language! 20:34:36 ais523: if I didn't mark it shameful I'd have to commit seppuku or something 20:34:46 BUT OK FINE YOU WIN 20:35:44 [[Category:Shameful]] was funnier when it was only on one language 20:36:49 ais523: well, it's hard to argue it doesn't belong on FURscript 20:37:17 ais523: and, errr, it looks like the author of BrainFNORD added it to theirs 20:37:32 if people are adding it to their own langs, what is the world coming to? 20:37:35 furscript, a language for furries? 20:38:13 i'll remove it from brainfnord, it's only as shameful as Ook! 20:38:26 PH's brain-bricking is sufficient punishment for that, we don't need it to be marked shameful too 20:38:31 augur: it appears to be just a list of random commands 20:39:01 i love how every time i edit my user page it completely clogs up recent changes 20:39:04 BECAUSE AIS523 BROKE THE PREVIEW BUTTON 20:39:39 at least i've produced the best nesting of html tags ever 20:39:39 elliott: it triggers on attempts even to show the source code, though 20:39:43 b > i > u > a > font 20:40:02 ais523: erm, just clicking to edit the page doesn't, I don't think? 20:40:16 it does if you have preview on edit turne don 20:40:17 *turned on 20:40:23 well turn it off then :D 20:40:27 and on a wiki like Esolang, it's normally a very useful feature 20:41:57 Well, too late to back out of paying $100 20:42:49 BECAUSE AIS523 BROKE THE PREVIEW BUTTON <-- what! 20:42:55 * oerjan swats ais523 -----### 20:43:09 oerjan: I didn't break it, I changed it so that it was impossible for a page to change the entire edit interface 20:43:21 which prevents ehird's page breaking everyone else's attempts to edit it 20:43:37 *my 20:43:49 nobody else uses that feature :) 20:44:12 hmm, I just realised calling you ehird there was not a mistake but technically correct 20:44:20 as the user page belongs to ehird 20:44:24 even if the IRC persion is elliott 20:44:32 persion = person version 20:47:26 ais523: um so previewing other pages won't clog up recent changes? 20:47:39 oerjan: previewing any page doesn't clog up recent changes 20:47:43 even elliott's 20:48:00 the difference is that elliott's page no longer replaces the entire interface when previewed, and he claims that's broken as it doesn't look like he wants it to look then 20:48:58 ah so it's only that he cannot see the result properly without saving 20:51:40 well turn it off then :D <-- that's a personal preference, which i incidentally _do_ have set 20:52:53 lol: 20:52:56 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_%28Programmiersprache%29 20:53:47 "E, the secure distributed pure-object platform and p2p scripting language." 21:00:41 Since when is E a scripting language? 21:01:22 olsner: what are you like as a person 21:01:53 SCRIPTVM EST 21:03:12 oklopol: "what are you? like a person?" yes, I'm very similar to a person :D 21:03:18 È SCRITTO 21:03:25 or so I like to believe, anyway 21:03:54 point of fact: 21:03:56 olsner: you seem to have made a tokenization error 21:04:08 worfs first language (maybe second, but certainly native) was almost certainly belarussan 21:04:33 oklopol: yeah, thought it was funnier tokenized my way, so I retokenized it 21:04:50 olsner: YOU MISSED A WORD 21:05:21 the difference is that elliott's page no longer replaces the entire interface when previewed, and he claims that's broken as it doesn't look like he wants it to look then 21:05:27 ais523: umm, to clarify, it looks NOTHING like the result 21:05:32 oerjan: no, I removed it 21:05:33 i would be fine if it just showed it and then the edit view 21:05:38 but it just turns into a mess 21:05:49 ah so it's only that he cannot see the result properly without saving 21:05:50 yes 21:11:15 http://demos.sonivoxmi.com/sonicimplantssoundfontenstrings.mp3 <-- I'm trying to decide if this demo reel is good enough to be worth dropping the money on the soundfont ... 21:11:28 let's see 21:11:42 It's ... not great ... but for strings, not terrible. 21:12:02 it sounds like a really nice DOS game theme song 21:12:40 The strings sound a bit artificial to me. 21:12:45 Though I'd be amazed if they DIDN'T. 21:13:03 Strings are a bitch X_X 21:13:41 How much does the soundfont cost 21:13:43 * Sgeo throws some "" at Gregor 21:13:56 $49.95? 21:14:13 Converting from Gregor-money that's like 3 cents, go for it! [UNICODE TROLL FACE] 21:15:22 I think I heard that some people at the acoustics lab are dabbling with physics-based string instrument synthesis. I have no idea how good their things are; probably not very. They might not have any demos available. 21:15:41 fizzie: Well, better than the state of speech to text. 21:15:44 ;DDDDD 21:16:03 They have a kantele synthesis thing, which I guess is pretty obscure. 21:16:28 (No new papers on that after 2005, so I guess it's not an active project.) 21:16:44 Ah well. More active than speech-to-text. 21:17:06 "Research and synthesis of the tanbur, a traditional Turkish long-necked lute, the ud, a short-necked arabic lute, and the Renaissance lute." 21:17:46 the finnish can't ele 21:19:10 I just had a guitar remade to be more ud-like 21:19:53 fizzie: you mean karplus strong synthesis? 21:20:20 Zwaarddijk: what did they change? 21:21:24 switched the neck to rosewood, removed the frets, filled the slots with something, polished it 21:21:52 of course, normal uds have shorter necks relative to the body size, and double course strings 21:22:06 (oh, flatwound strings from now on, to reduce wear on the neck) 21:22:18 it's a stratocaster copy 21:24:34 asdfghjkl 21:26:01 "He left the site for a few days in October 2008, following a bitter feud over whether the Spanish Inquisition constituted British comedy." 21:27:23 i don't see how that is an oud 21:27:28 it's just a fretless guitar? 21:27:40 flatwounds are fun 21:27:45 don't sound so nice tho 21:28:12 the whole spanish institution was just a british joke that got very out of hand 21:28:18 *inquisition 21:28:25 cheater00: it is more like an oud now than before, though 21:28:29 * oerjan swats his hands -----### 21:28:38 cheater00: I play a lot of jazz, so flatwounds fit in that style 21:28:44 does the rosewood make so much difference? 21:29:20 well, maple isn't good on fretless guitars 21:29:44 so a fretless guitar is immediately an oud? :p 21:29:47 not really 21:29:50 but it does get much closer 21:30:10 i thought a defining thing for the oud was the thick neck 21:30:13 instruments aren't really a discretely classifiable all the time 21:30:34 cheater00: I think rather something more physically accurate, or at least more complicated; but I don't really know what they've done. Short description for the latest kantele paper says: "Two algorithms for simulating tension modulated strings (e.g. kantele strings) are presented: a spatially distributed waveguide model and a finite difference model. The waveguide model is essentially the same as below, whereas the finite difference model uses time-domain inte 21:30:34 rpolation for modulating the wave velocities. Stability issues for both models are discussed." 21:30:48 in some classificcations, what's considered distinct for ouds is picked strings + fretless 21:31:16 which is not very common - ouds and shamisen, basically? 21:31:23 fizzie: sounds like karplus-strong to me 21:31:39 oh wait, i read waveguide as waveshaper for some reason 21:31:40 nm 21:31:43 and the shamisen is distinct by having cat- or dogskin 21:32:12 where is the skin used? 21:32:24 but no, fretless instruments are not uncommon 21:32:34 The "below" refers to: "Nonlinear kantele strings are modeled using a waveguide string with spatially distributed fractional delay filters. When the delay time of the fractional delay filters is varied, tension modulation nonlinearity can be simulated." So I guess it's sort-of related in any case. 21:33:02 cheater00: most fretless are bowed, though 21:33:10 which is the distinct thing about the oud 21:33:41 the shamisen is a bit like a banjo: it's stretched around a frame 21:33:58 the bridge rests on the skin 21:34:47 plucked fretless insturments are more common in the far east 21:36:23 oh ok right 21:36:32 and ya they are 21:37:01 my recent musical instrument discovery was the nyckelharpa 21:37:21 those are cool. 21:37:38 yeah my buddy is an expert on those 21:37:48 he's got like a zillion cds on them 21:38:03 and he lent me one, he said i'm not so bad for someone who never held a bow in his life 21:39:18 currently I am practicing a lot of microtonal sales 21:39:20 *scales 21:39:30 nyckelharpas are microtonal 21:39:31 :D 21:39:42 -!- lament has joined. 21:39:54 cheater00: that's up to how you tune them, no? 21:39:55 but really.. with fretless.. you're mostly doing glissandos, and listening to the beats between your voicings and other people's 21:39:57 hm 21:40:02 you don't tune nyckelharpas. 21:40:12 they have fixed scales. they're sort-of fretted. 21:40:16 yeah but 21:40:18 the strings 21:40:26 I guess you tune those to pure fifths or somesuch? 21:40:27 there's only one right way to tune the strings 21:40:43 EDAE or something like that, i don't remember 21:40:47 hm, are the fixed scales just intonation? 21:40:57 what do you mean? 21:41:12 it has keys, a keyboard, you can't re-tune a single key 21:41:37 well like 21:41:40 are the keys *pre-set* 21:41:48 yep 21:41:49 to be just-intonationish? 21:41:52 oh 21:41:56 no, not necessarily 21:42:09 depends on the harpa you have, there's no exactly single set standard 21:42:22 there isn't even a single standard for the keyboard, which is a problem in its own right 21:42:23 what do you mean by them being microtonal then? 21:42:33 you learn a fingering technique on one and it doesn't work on another one 21:42:51 i mean that they have tones in steps smaller than the semitone 21:42:59 ok 21:43:06 so roughly how is that scale constructed? 21:43:08 that's my definition of microtonality 21:43:23 I include any thing that is not exactly 12-tet in microtonal music 21:43:25 ti dunno 21:43:35 i think it's just traditional 21:43:47 because like, even if you have quartertones, the usual use of those in music that has them would be the neutral second 21:43:48 you know those things already existed in the 14th century 21:43:55 so you seldom actually use the quartertone 21:44:22 is it microtonal then? 21:44:35 if the main non-standard step is three quartertones, not one? 21:44:41 well yes it's not 12 tone equal temp 21:44:47 yeah but like 21:44:50 is 7-tet microtonal? 21:44:56 no it's not equal temp 21:45:07 it is an equal temperament 21:45:10 it's some weird wacky tuning i don't know 21:45:14 i don't think it is 21:45:19 ah, the harp 21:45:20 right 21:45:22 nyckelharp 21:45:26 yeah those aren't equal temp 21:45:38 equal temps were basically only theoretically known until the 19th c. 21:45:48 when we got the technology to actually tune them 21:46:02 yes 21:46:29 anyways, re: microtonality, there's a bunch of good just-inotnation intervals outside of 12-tet that sound good in rock and blues and jazz and so on 21:46:34 the seventh harmonic is one of those 21:46:48 it's about a sixth-tone flat from the dominant seventh 21:47:26 you know i find with fretless it's less important to think about scales 21:47:31 and more important to think about clusters 21:47:43 clusters? 21:47:51 yeah it's basically a way to put your fingers 21:47:54 ah 21:47:55 so that they support eachother 21:47:59 I'd never use that term like that 21:48:04 and you repeatedly can hit the same intervals 21:48:19 (I normally use it to signify stacked second-chords) 21:48:29 ah 21:48:31 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:48:35 well i'm mostly talking out of my ass :D 21:48:43 so i might be using the term wrongly 21:48:54 scales decompose into parts, though 21:48:57 but like, if you're doing fretless, you end up doing a lot of small glissandos anyways 21:48:58 stacked second chords? 21:49:02 that one can learn to repeat a bit like such "clusters" 21:49:16 oklopol: what you get if you strike your hand down on a piano on keys that are next to each other 21:49:19 you mean like AHC#D#F 21:49:26 and the important bit is to quickly hit a sonorous or discordant chord quickly 21:49:26 k 21:49:29 yeah 21:50:19 for a while I actually had my guitar tuned so I'd easily get clusters 21:50:27 with full on dist, it was a pretty neat thing 21:50:36 could work out nice in some avant-punk style 21:50:48 my tuning is A Eb A Eb A Eb A 21:51:16 seriously? 21:51:19 yes 21:51:24 why? 21:51:33 -!- elliott has joined. 21:51:34 that makes ower chords a tad awkward 21:51:40 it's the best i've come up with 21:51:44 hah 21:51:46 what are ower chords 21:51:52 *power chords 21:51:53 they're like power chords 21:51:54 my p-key sucs 21:51:58 but with one finger less 21:52:01 my k-key too 21:52:05 i used AEADGCF previously 21:52:06 lol 21:52:26 Zwaarddijk: i just use A Eb A chords 21:52:29 mostly 21:52:43 oklopol: what styles do you play? 21:53:04 nothing currently, but hopefully starting a new project soon 21:53:20 what styles interest you, then? 21:53:41 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK-JiyDbp7E here's my current favorite band prolly 21:54:04 nice 21:54:11 mainly that stuff. 21:54:13 oklopol is potatoes 21:54:44 then I understand why you'd tune your guitar in tritones 21:54:53 although i also like playing simple stuff 21:55:24 I have considered switching to a seven-string string-set on my guitar, because the high e sounds a bit too muffled now 21:55:25 Zwaarddijk: it's not guaranteed we'll get it to work even for metal, but i like trying crazy things. 21:57:01 I would like to introduce some microtonal harmonies into all kinds of genres. 21:57:11 but another dream I have is to arrange a lot of death metal classics for big band 21:57:24 and vice versa, arrange a lot of swing classics as death metal 21:57:39 maybe I should do it with black metal instead and just wait for the death threats 21:57:54 i'd love to hear faceless played with something like an orchestra 21:58:13 this thing some metal bands have of 21:58:18 doing things with a classical orchestra 21:58:28 (I find it somewhat pretentious, and I don't think it sounds that good, ultimately) 21:58:32 would be fun doing that with a big band instead 21:58:50 or math core with a woman's choir 21:59:00 *women's 21:59:01 :D 21:59:02 doing faceless with a classical orchestra would be nowhere close to what metal people do with orchestras 21:59:21 if you use an orchestra you aren't allowed to use guitars of any kind 21:59:26 them's the rules 21:59:38 I actually considered for a while to try and get a band together that'd do like 22:00:08 relatively complex three-voice (or even four-voice) arrangements of metal songs 22:00:09 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASzIvMddyxA <<< the squeak thing the guitars keep repeating here, consider 3 violins playing a high cluster 22:00:10 mmmmmm 22:00:29 like, some angel dust-era faith no more and that kind of style 22:00:34 with three or four female vocalists 22:01:14 you know what sucks, any attempt to combine metal and classical 22:01:24 yes 22:01:26 but even worse 22:01:29 the people fawning over it 22:01:37 and the metalheads that think "metal is the new classical" 22:01:47 well in a sense it is 22:01:47 no it's not - one fucking rule: parallel fifths, man! 22:01:52 jazz is the new metal 22:01:56 DISCUSS 22:01:58 lament: what sense would that be? 22:02:13 in the sense that metal is where the interesting stuff happens nowadays 22:02:20 not really. 22:02:27 the interesting stuff happens in far underground places. 22:02:30 in every genre. 22:02:37 yeah i suppose 22:02:38 in the sense that it's one of the few remaining genres where people are interested in technical ability 22:03:04 and it's melody-based, roughly 22:03:07 lament: yeah but throughout common practice, parallel fifths were banned, and common practice is still pretty important a guideline for what to consider properly classical 22:03:15 Zwaarddijk: no, that's bullshit 22:03:18 lol 22:03:22 define classical :P 22:03:29 parallel fifths are like the rule about not ending a sentence with a preposition 22:03:34 it's not a real thing 22:03:39 oh, sure, they do occur 22:03:39 but in metal 22:03:43 they are the fucking bread and butter 22:03:46 of every fucing song 22:03:47 eh 22:03:52 in metal they're part of chords 22:03:58 just like they're part of chords everywhere else 22:03:59 that's not really relevant is it 22:04:00 so? 22:04:05 _voice leading_ 22:04:05 it's just that in metal there's nothing else in those chords :) 22:04:06 "this prescriptivist detail differs, THERE IS NO RELATION!!!!" 22:04:12 in metal, there's no voice leading 22:04:19 or very primitive such 22:04:28 in much classical, too 22:04:44 and you should think of a power chord as one voice 22:04:49 yeah but the metalheads that fawn over it 22:04:50 not two separate parallel voices 22:04:54 compare metal to the great masters 22:04:55 because that's what it sounds like 22:04:57 i tripped over my power chord 22:04:58 not to the hoi polloi composers 22:05:12 lament: and the reason why they're forbidden is that it sounds like one voice. 22:05:18 wow, that's the first time i've ever seen anyone actually wite hoi polloi 22:05:19 eh 22:05:29 Zwaarddijk: so? 22:05:35 cool guitars: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXaIwvXa3SI 22:05:41 they do sound like one voice 22:05:44 why is that bad? 22:06:06 a bunch of organ voices play several notes an octave apart 22:06:08 lament: well my main objection really is that the metalheads that do fawn over how it's the new classical are just pretentious fucks 22:06:25 lament: every instrument has frequencies octaves apart 22:06:30 whatever tone you play 22:06:36 yeah, same with fifths 22:06:38 but another dream I have is to arrange a lot of death metal classics for big band <-- iiuc you'd have to change your nick to Sverdvoll then... 22:06:51 oh wait 22:07:41 lament: actually there's usually no overtone at the fifth 22:07:44 there's at the fifth's octave, though 22:07:51 ugh 22:07:54 i don't give a fuck 22:07:57 and at the third's octave's octave, etc 22:08:10 all i know is a power chord is supposed to sound like one thick sound 22:08:14 but still, the only thing metal shares with classical is fascination with technique 22:08:19 but some classical had fascination with voice leading 22:08:36 and that's easier to find in pop music these days! 22:08:48 (tho' it's probably most prominent in jazz) 22:09:39 w/e 22:09:42 so anyone could find some reason to claim having inherited something from classical 22:18:05 -!- FireFly has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 22:21:09 " that makes ower chords a tad awkward" erm why? do you use all fifths or what 22:21:26 power chords are easier with tritone tuning than with all fourths 22:21:47 oklopol: yeah but if you want a full seven-string power chord, ... 22:21:56 why not DADADAD 22:21:59 er 22:22:03 ADADADA 22:22:38 i don't like playing scales over fifth jumps, and i don't like having different jumps between strings 22:22:41 i'm not smart enough for that 22:23:10 could never really learn the guitar before i retuned it to all-fourths 22:23:14 well 22:23:17 slight exaggeration there 22:23:28 but it always annoyed me 22:24:10 the G-H thing does help a lot with some chord voicings if you need them 22:24:24 yeah 22:24:29 but ... I wouldn't really need them 22:24:38 but i don't do chords that much 22:24:43 and I have noticed sccales are more natural on the five-stringed bass than on a normal guitar 22:24:52 when I do chords, I generally either play classical stuff or jazz 22:25:09 and in jazz, you can play pretty minimalistic voicings 22:26:16 i don't know what voicings are 22:26:22 at least not in english 22:27:08 the way you arrange the tones of the chord 22:27:14 oh ok 22:27:53 like, if you play a G7 in jazz, you'll prolly have a G (or a D), an F and a H 22:27:58 in some order 22:28:01 and nothing else 22:28:20 depending on the previous and next chords, and so on 22:28:43 one common way of playing that would be 3x34xx 22:29:14 altho' x534xx would intrude less on the bass territory 22:30:07 xx34x3 could also work 22:30:22 xx343x definitely works 22:30:39 i think i'm seeing a pattern here 22:30:51 you need a 3-subset of the chord! 22:31:26 some just play the tritone 22:31:29 xx34xx 22:31:42 because that's the most dissonant part of the chord, and hence the most defining part of it 22:31:50 i'm sure you can play almost anything in context 22:31:52 also you can do some substitutions 22:31:56 so like 22:32:06 instead of a G7, you can play a C#/ 22:32:50 which would be xx342x 22:33:12 playing stuff in C major? 22:33:31 yeah, if we're in C maj, G7 ~= C#7 22:33:36 or just in general you can stick a C# in a G7? 22:33:48 the / was a typo 22:33:55 if you have a song with the chord progression 22:34:04 C Dmin G7 C 22:34:05 you know what sucks? jazz 22:34:06 you can switch it to 22:34:11 C Dmin C#7 C 22:34:19 and you get a nice chromatic desscent 22:35:08 you could also probably switch the G7 to a G#min6? 22:36:23 Dmin6 probably won't cover as a substitute dominant though? 22:37:14 i guess we can agree on all kinds of random shit sounding good 22:38:05 unfortunately it's far from random 22:38:14 jazz theory is a prescriptivist paradise 22:38:19 I wonder what kind of grammar modern treatments of harmony require to be expressed 22:38:26 ^ see 22:38:34 lament: jazz approach is far more descriptive than prescriptive 22:38:41 *the jazz approach 22:39:00 someone invents something and it sounds good? theorists will want to explain why it sounds good, and come up with a description 22:39:09 others read waht he did, and learn from it 22:39:26 -!- zzo38 has joined. 22:39:40 Play chess, where if player coughs, he loses one of his pawns. 22:39:44 yeah and they can all go fuck themselves. what a bunch of losers. 22:39:53 :D 22:40:05 lament: I guess that's your business, to tell them that? 22:40:27 yeah 22:40:41 i'm quite prescriptive in my approach to jazz 22:41:31 that sounds better than the approach to music i've seen among the metal people i know, "just play whatever sounds good" 22:41:45 although lament loves that stuff because he's gay 22:41:56 sounding good is just a distraction 22:43:35 this is what music should sound like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79rHMifBODs 22:43:53 or this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAFTpLzMerw 22:44:51 lol 22:45:38 i'm not getting it 22:45:48 i like the atmosphere tho 22:45:56 would work in an elevator 22:46:11 (the same musician has composed both of those) 22:46:18 more like poosician 22:46:48 Different music should sound like different! Including, piano, organ, harp, computer, equal temperant, just intonation, Bohlen-Pierce, slow, fast, loud, quiet, major, minor, etc. 22:46:59 ^ words of wisdom 22:47:06 my favourite instrument is the quiet 22:47:25 my favourite instrument is the shut the fuck up 22:47:30 I don't think the quiet is an instrument...? 22:48:06 the quiet is the best instrument 22:48:08 lament: can you set +m for a while, that would be awesome 22:48:08 if used sparsely 22:48:14 true 22:48:15 Equal temperament is not an instrument either, although most musical instruments can be used with it. 22:48:18 Zwaarddijk: my second-favourite instrument is the loud 22:48:29 i've made entire albums just by alternating quiet and loud 22:48:33 SO VERSATILE 22:48:47 elliott: sounds like a rather revolutionary approach to music 22:48:55 Zwaarddijk: sometimes 22:49:00 Zwaarddijk: i even play the MEDIUM VOLUME 22:49:06 I thought quiet and loud never existed in mixed ensembles? 22:49:06 and 22:49:16 if i'm feeling really avant garde 22:49:18 i play the slow 22:49:26 Yes, that is why you can use the pianoforte instrument to make an album that alternates quiet and loud, and even medium volume. (Commonly the pianoforte is called "piano" for short) 22:49:38 COMMONLY 22:49:43 elliott: the slow is old, though 22:49:46 but in the 80s 22:49:50 thrash musicians invented the fast 22:49:56 lol 22:50:00 you think THRASH fuckers invented the fast? 22:50:05 you really ARE a clueless moron 22:50:08 which they only used with loud 22:50:10 beethoven invented the fast in 1994 22:50:26 anyway fuck you all, i'm going to go play the just intonation 22:50:44 is my dick a musical instrument 22:51:02 the just intonation is an euphemism for the penis 22:51:03 idiot 22:51:03 lament: blow it and tell us if it made a sound! 22:51:26 my favourite instrument is the minor 22:51:30 lament: do you play the fast with it? 22:51:36 the sound it makes when you blow it is just incredible 22:51:43 elliott: but those are illegal to riff on 22:51:59 sometimes i even smash my just intonation into the minor to make some music 22:52:12 one such piece i performed is titled "My Penis in A Minor", you can find it on the googles. 22:52:15 and playing licks on the minor gets you behind bars 22:52:16 it's funny because he actually is a pedophile 22:52:23 oklopol: that is precisely why it is funny. 22:52:39 that is, he likes the girls on his class 22:52:48 ah 22:52:52 elliott: are you still 12? 22:52:55 get it? he's like 12 22:53:01 lament: no, i'm now actually 11 22:53:05 oh 23:04:23 oklopol: i heard there's some overlap between bands who do heavy metal like what you linked, and dark psy 23:04:26 funnily enough 23:04:37 what's dark psy 23:04:38 probably because the tempo's the same and they're both scary-music genres 23:04:42 it's like uh 23:04:45 let me link you to something 23:04:46 scary-music genres? 23:05:01 the faceless mostly sings about aliens and space stuff 23:05:08 i don't think they try to be very scary 23:05:34 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqprNp2J1wQ 23:06:17 that's like the antifaceless. that's the faceful. 23:06:27 the faceless? 23:06:44 wouldn't the antifaceless be like the ... buttless? 23:07:12 or the buttful? 23:07:47 olsner: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0Cz2dFTlSA 23:08:52 the most progressive thing i've found that i can actually understand 23:08:55 -!- FireFly has joined. 23:09:08 not that progressive, but then again i'm not very smart 23:09:15 Hmm.. 23:09:29 Is fixed point with 64-bit values usually faster, or are floating point operations usually faster? 23:09:46 They don't give equivalent results, so how can we compare? 23:10:02 I think xor will probably be even faster 23:10:12 I think nop will probably be fastest of them all. 23:11:20 oklopol: that faceless track is funny in a cheezy way 23:11:56 funny? you must have some sort of braindamage 23:12:03 erm 23:12:05 i meant fun 23:12:09 not funny 23:12:09 okay good 23:12:11 i hate astronauts 23:12:15 they're so funny 23:12:21 and no, not brain damage, just past my bedtime 23:12:25 i'm very protective of my little facelessie 23:12:39 oklopol: faceless is FUNNY!!! 23:12:45 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111eleven 23:13:00 :(( 23:13:07 >:D 23:13:22 >>>>>:D 23:13:33 that song i just linked isn't really their best work 23:14:54 is that why it's so funny :-\ 23:15:16 also i should prolly listen to more stuff, but i have the same problem as with everything except math, i only listen to music because i want to *not* think for once, so i prefer listening to the same stuff over and over again. 23:15:33 i guess that's common enough 23:15:52 haha same here 23:15:57 i have this issue.. 23:15:58 *i mostly listen to 23:16:11 but like, i started listening to operas lately and it's good braindead music 23:16:16 :P 23:16:20 i'm sure it is 23:16:24 palestrina is a good one 23:16:35 get it 23:16:45 no i don't get it, can you explain 23:16:50 (i did get it) 23:16:55 (but i'm not sure i'll get it) 23:18:24 no sorry this is only for smart people 23:18:32 i guess it's a high-brow one for ya 23:18:52 don't worry though i bet you'll be fine watching your eastenders and eating your cod n chippies 23:18:58 i'm very, very slow 23:19:00 in my head 23:19:25 when others have gotten there i'm still like wait what 23:19:29 well maybe one day you'll have a son who can only gain control of his left foot and will become a writer 23:19:36 then you'll die of heart attack 23:19:50 i don't even get that reference 23:19:59 "my left foot"? 23:20:13 never seen that movie? it's a classic 23:20:22 oh yeah i've seen that on family guy 23:20:29 ... 23:20:44 dot, dot, dot 23:20:53 not so funny now that i know it's a reference to something 23:21:17 yeah it's a reference to christy brown, a real person. 23:21:28 you know what's awesome 23:21:29 it was his biopic 23:21:29 death 23:21:31 yeah don't care 23:21:36 elliott: totally go for it 23:21:50 real persons are even worse than movies 23:21:58 elliott: make sure to send us a postcard from kerberos 23:22:03 one day i will make a film about oklopol 23:22:07 and he'll hate me 23:22:10 :D 23:22:17 even though it'll just be like 23:22:21 120 minutes of constant oklopol fanboyism 23:22:34 oklopol: yeah but at least with real persons you don't have to rewind them after watching 23:22:35 120 minutes of me ircing naked in my armchair 23:22:45 or that yes 23:22:54 oklopol: isn't that the same 23:23:09 i suppose i suppose 23:23:10 what better movie for oklopol fans than oklopol naked 23:23:17 for ALL 120 minutes 23:23:28 i've linked a vid of me playing the piano naked here once 23:23:29 starting with the first second and ending with the last 23:23:35 like, not even dressing out 23:23:39 i watched that! 23:23:42 i think 23:23:46 prolly 23:23:47 just.. naked 23:24:00 so anyways 23:24:38 oklopol: i think there's some operatic heavy metal too 23:24:43 ever listen to that stuff? 23:24:49 like what? 23:24:57 i was totally into nightwish as a kid (i still like it) 23:26:59 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO7HvBLtt1g&feature=related this stuff 23:27:19 erm 23:27:25 that's a weird version but anyhoe 23:28:26 not really "operatic" at all i suppose 23:29:16 ZSTG7Y8UKOPL 23:32:34 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:40:55 That tswett character should be back now. 23:41:53 i agree 23:45:40 -!- sebbu has joined. 23:45:40 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 23:45:40 -!- sebbu has joined. 23:46:21 -!- cheater- has joined. 23:46:25 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:48:51 -!- cheater00 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).