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00:06:58 <Phantom_Hoover> # In the United States, CJD deaths among persons younger than 30 years of age are extremely rare (fewer than five deaths per billion per year[citation needed]).
00:07:38 <Phantom_Hoover> It's got to be something along the lines of 3 people under 30 died of it ever.
00:08:53 <Phantom_Hoover> In 1997 a number of Kentuckians contracted the disease. It was discovered that all the victims had consumed squirrel brains.
00:10:53 -!- augur has changed nick to augur[afk].
00:12:31 <Phantom_Hoover> @tell oerjan At the first available opportunity, go to the Norwegian link in http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0140673605633338 and transfer it to my possession... somehow.
00:14:19 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: Two is a number.
00:14:35 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: For that matter, so is one. And zero.
00:14:42 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, yes, but you don't say "a number" in that case.
00:15:18 <Gregor> A number of people in this channel fail to realize the sheer degree of pedantry that is possible online.
00:17:46 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes, it's almost as if people don't get that the aim of language is communication within the hazy and highly contextual environment of human thought, rather than a formal system.
00:18:15 <Gregor> One might even say that a number of people don't get that.
00:19:55 * Sgeo_ forcefeeds Phantom_Hoover a squirrel brain
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00:30:56 <oklopol> '<Sgeo_> "Hey u like me call u when i gt home" I have no idea if she's asking if she should call me, or telling me that she'll call' <<< asking
00:31:18 -!- augur[afk] has changed nick to augur.
00:31:26 <elliott> Sgeo_: congratulations, you avoided being called by an absolute moron
00:31:45 <oklopol> what i can't parse is hoover's response
00:32:55 <oklopol> oh he corrects it just after
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00:38:26 <elliott> - Day gets dark enough to spawn monsters
00:38:26 <elliott> - A pig hit by lightning will turn into a zombie pigman"
00:50:40 <elliott> Trackpads now have kinetic scrolling. If you flick to perform a scroll, then press a keyboard key while kinetic scroll events are generated, unexpected application behavior may result. (728643)
00:51:16 -!- Gregor has changed nick to Yahweasel.
00:52:14 <elliott> oklopol: -minecraft dammit :|
00:52:56 <oklopol> asking makes more sense because by adding "2" makes it a perfectly valid english sentence asking if you'd like her to call, but i see no way to make it a sentence *telling* you she'll call
00:52:59 <Yahweasel> As it turns out, people are not ADEQUATELY OFFENDED by this nick.
00:53:22 <oklopol> except "Hey. You like me. Call you when i get home!"
00:53:31 <oklopol> but that would be... interesting
00:53:51 <elliott> Yahweasel: Try /nick Muyahmmed
00:54:58 <Yahweasel> elliott: ... but the "yah" isn't the offensive part :P
00:55:14 <elliott> Yahweasel: /nick Muyahmmedweasel
00:56:03 <oklopol> i have no idea what that nick refers to
00:56:10 <TeruFSX> Hey u like me call u when i gt home sounds like it's missing a few woulds and tos
00:56:34 <oklopol> TeruFSX: as i said, you need to add "2"
00:56:44 <monqy> punctuation, letters, words, sensibility
00:56:44 <oklopol> Hey u like me 2 call u when i gt home
00:56:48 <elliott> TeruFSX: where did you appear from
00:57:38 <oklopol> i can imagine omitting it would lead to a few chinese bridge builders not to get it, as demonstrated earlier by elliott and ph
00:58:13 <TeruFSX> elliot: i came here yesterday from the wiki
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00:58:48 <pikhq> oklopol: Define "Norwegian".
00:59:11 <elliott> TeruFSX: Let me guess, we can blame our new front page again? :P
00:59:13 <oklopol> pikhq: it means "use the nick TeruFSX and have lived in norway for a long time"
00:59:48 <TeruFSX> elliott: i would have come here anyway
00:59:55 <TeruFSX> though the front page helped
01:00:07 <TeruFSX> i stumbled across it once before
01:00:16 <elliott> I'll let you know when I want to cash in my debt.
01:00:54 <oklopol> did i mention i just slept for 16 hours
01:05:12 * pikhq wonders if other countries do anything similar to the whole Air Force/Marine/Executive One rigamarole...
01:06:32 <pikhq> For those unaware of what the hell I'm talking about: a plane in the US Air Force with the President aboard is Air Force One.
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01:08:08 <pikhq> Likewise for the Marines, Navy, and (hypothetically) Army, Coast Guard, Public Health Service Commissioned Corps, or National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Commissioned Corps.
01:08:24 <pikhq> Also, a commercial plane with the President aboard is Executive One.
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01:13:48 <TeruFSX> oklopol: why'd you think I was norwegian
01:15:21 <oklopol> TeruFSX: the way you smell, mostly
01:16:21 <TeruFSX> i don't know how norwegians smell
01:16:36 <oklopol> erm, how does and apple smell?
01:16:50 <oklopol> you answer that, and i'll start working on norwegians
01:18:35 <TeruFSX> I'd assume most apples and Norweigans smell about the same.
01:19:14 <oklopol> obviously i mean what apples smell like once you have squeezed the juice out of them
01:19:27 <oklopol> things tend not to smell unless you destroy them
01:19:50 <oklopol> i think i just accidentally told everyone i'm a serial killer
01:19:56 <TeruFSX> not much more than sugar, maybe a few sour notes i guess
01:20:13 <TeruFSX> well if you know norwegians smell like apples on the inside, i'd be somewhat worried
01:20:21 <TeruFSX> i'm hopefully far away though
01:21:12 <TeruFSX> always populated by protestant european stock
01:21:27 <TeruFSX> a great country, built on Christian principles and no government
01:23:00 <elliott> note to self, americans think their government is "no government"
01:23:17 <elliott> http://www.qotile.net/blog/wp/?p=600 pretttyyyyy
01:24:59 <oklopol> happy people say weird things
01:25:10 <elliott> that's truaejroaejoigoifjhggjofodgbmyi0
01:25:38 <oklopol> you can't be happy, only stupid people can be happy
01:25:47 * oklopol has been watching house for the last week
01:25:56 <Yahweasel> Conductor program is going SO FREAKING WELL 8-D
01:25:57 <elliott> oklopol just said i'm not stupid
01:26:16 <elliott> Yahweasel: So how do you actually mix two MIDI tracks together? Just use Rosegarden or something? That's so manual...
01:26:36 <Yahweasel> elliott: ./mergefiles a.mid b.mid out.mid
01:26:51 <elliott> Yahweasel: You said your music production system lacked this :P
01:27:01 <Yahweasel> elliott: No, I said that was a small clerical task.
01:27:05 <Yahweasel> It is not the important part of my suite.
01:27:18 <elliott> ./ makes baby jesus sad, you need to give them all six-letter names and make them global.
01:27:26 <elliott> OK, mergemid would also be acceptable :P
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01:28:51 <Yahweasel> Yeah, in retrospect I should have named all those "files" things as "mid", but I was in MIDI-mode at the time so I was thinking "what other kinds of files ARE there?"
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01:30:19 <elliott> Yahweasel: I thought you were the kind of pedantic asshole who always calls them smf.
01:30:45 <Yahweasel> I can't, because I'm integrating with PortMidi and PortSMF is terrible :P
01:31:11 <elliott> I thought PortMidi sucked donkey dick.
01:31:26 <elliott> "portsmf (short for Portable Standard Midi File Library), a subproject of portmedia, is a library for reading, writing, and manipulating standard midi files. One drawback of any standard midi file library is that most of the work is likely to be translating midi to whatever local data structure you are using to represent midi or general music data. portsmf provides one such data structure. Originally, this library was called Allegro, so at least
01:31:26 <elliott> for now, you'll see a lot of "allegro" and "alg" in the sources."
01:31:31 <elliott> CALLING LIBRARIES ALLEGRO: GOOD IDEA
01:32:00 <Yahweasel> elliott: Just PortSMF. PortMidi is ... bad, but sufferable :P
01:32:09 <elliott> Yahweasel: I would tell you to support MT-[thirtytwo] awesomely, but it's just a MIDI+other stuff -> analogue audio thing :(
01:32:17 <elliott> Although IIRC it has a MIDI Out that does... something...
01:32:26 <elliott> (Other stuff because you can actually reprogram the instruments totally.)
01:32:31 <elliott> (And put messages on the screen :P)
01:35:46 <Yahweasel> So the problem with the tornado alarm is that when it goes off, I have no idea whether it's its usual testing schedule, or what I'm supposed to do if it's not.
01:37:32 <Yahweasel> Oh good, wunderground says there's a tornado warning >_>
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01:38:27 <oklopol> oh you third world countries and your crazy stone agey problems
01:38:54 <Yahweasel> Ffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu, this is a legitimate tornado warning >_>
01:40:00 <elliott> Yahweasel: lol at living in us
01:40:00 <Yahweasel> Wait, I know what I'm supposed to do!
01:40:05 <oklopol> ok sorry that was insensitive of me. OH GOD TORNADO WARNING?!? THAT'S *SERIOUS* YOU MIGHT *DIE* :OO
01:40:09 <elliott> Yahweasel: GO INTO THE BASEMENT
01:40:17 <elliott> AND IT'S YOUR PARENT'S HOUSE
01:40:28 <elliott> your parents will die though
01:40:31 <elliott> can't have them in the basement
01:40:44 <Yahweasel> elliott: ... yeah, I'm a PhD student living thousands of miles away from my parents, and you?
01:40:58 <elliott> Yahweasel: You didn't count on the person you stole your identity from ...
01:41:05 <oklopol> Yahweasel: is it the first tornado warning ever?
01:41:08 <elliott> I'm a Ph.D. student named Gregor Richards living thousands of miles away from my parents.
01:41:17 <elliott> Yahweasel: You're Gregor Richards and you live in your parent's basement.
01:41:31 <elliott> This "Elliott Hird" schtick was just to CATCH YOU OFF GUARD.
01:41:37 <Yahweasel> oklopol: The first non-system-test one, yeah.
01:41:51 <elliott> also that tornado warning was me i'm just trolling you in general
01:41:55 <oklopol> Yahweasel: oh that's actually pretty cool then
01:42:44 <oklopol> Yahweasel: do they tell you any specifics?
01:43:11 <Yahweasel> oklopol: http://www.wunderground.com/US/IN/029.html#TOR
01:44:26 <pikhq> oklopol: Tornado warnings aren't really a problem because of any economic issues in the US.
01:44:46 <pikhq> oklopol: It's just that the US happens to get almost all the tornadoes.
01:45:13 <elliott> it's hogging the tornadoes
01:45:29 <pikhq> We get about 1,200 a year.
01:46:52 <oklopol> pikhq: oh it's not because you're a third world country? what about the snow, that's still about finland angering god right?
01:47:14 <elliott> DOCTOR WHO CAST DYING OFF ONE BY ONE http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-13137674
01:47:20 <oklopol> we do have a lot of that sodomy going around you know
01:47:34 -!- news-ham has joined.
01:47:34 <elliott> let's see what the News Ham has to say about it
01:47:38 <news-ham> Woman dies in Oz diving accident: A woman from Donegal has died in a diving accident off the coast of Queensland in Australia. http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/uk-northern-ireland-13137774
01:47:48 <elliott> news-ham: but no what about doctor who
01:47:50 <news-ham> VIDEO: Royal wedding police helicopter tour: The Metropolitan Police are already identifying security issues along the route and key sites of the royal wedding from the skies. http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/uk-13129651
01:47:52 <pikhq> oklopol: No, God doesn't care about Finland. Be glad.
01:47:58 <elliott> it's almost as if you don't look at my messages, news-ham
01:48:00 <news-ham> VIDEO: Misrata's injured recover in Benghazi: Nato has said that there is only so much air forces can do to protect civilians in the besieged city of Misrata in Libya. http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/world-africa-13134893
01:48:10 <elliott> oklopol: the punishment for living in finland is living in finland
01:48:19 <pikhq> oklopol: If you want to see somewhere that God is angry at, you need only look at Texas.
01:48:24 <elliott> and doesn't end until you leave finland
01:48:31 <pikhq> YOUR FLESH MELTETH
01:49:49 <pikhq> Highs of 20C in January.
01:50:25 <oklopol> we had 16.7 or something last week
01:50:37 <pikhq> 38C in July in some parts.
01:50:49 <pikhq> Those are averages, BTW.
01:51:23 <pikhq> YOUR FLESH MELTETH
01:51:50 <pikhq> *And* it's humid as fuck.
01:51:58 <pikhq> elliott: Yes, but Australia is a prison colony.
01:52:09 <pikhq> Texas was settled willingly.
01:52:16 <elliott> who would go to Texas willingly
01:52:30 <pikhq> Remember that it's a major source of derp.
01:53:08 <pikhq> They've actually got a large number of people moving in.
01:53:20 <pikhq> Adding to the derp.
01:55:31 <pikhq> Actually, Texas prefers to execute.
01:56:00 <oklopol> what kind of education do you need to be an execu...tive?
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01:59:42 <oklopol> there should totally be an executioner university
02:00:13 <oklopol> http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091112123357AAjJmFN
02:04:44 <Sgeo_> Maybe I sould text her again
02:07:07 <oklopol> tell her "sry i wuntd to ansr but i forgut :>"
02:09:09 <oklopol> my mom once sent her friend the text "have 2 remember 2 take my penis with me" where 2's indicate i'm translating abbreviated text. penis was short for penicillin.
02:10:10 <Sgeo_> Wouldn't penic make more sense/
02:10:20 <elliott> Sgeo is as retarded as every girl he knows ever.
02:10:41 <oklopol> she told me this when i told her if sending text messages is so hard you have to drop the ending of every word, maybe you could call instead
02:10:42 <Sgeo_> Oh. In that case, what's so funny about what oklopol wrote?
02:10:47 <elliott> because the word for penis
02:10:52 <elliott> is short for the word for penicillin
02:11:05 <oklopol> i write it penisiliini in finnish
02:11:10 <elliott> <oklopol> she told me this when i told her if sending text messages is so hard you have to drop the ending of every word, maybe you could call instead
02:11:12 <oklopol> didn't know it had a c, maybe my mom doesn't either
02:11:34 <oklopol> elliott: well i doubt i phrased it like that
02:11:43 <elliott> are you oklopol to your parents as well
02:11:53 <elliott> like do you tell them about your dog food eating
02:11:55 <oklopol> maybe more like "it's funny how you abbreviate words more than teenagers do"
02:11:59 <HackEgo> 285) <locks> who's walter bright and why is he so bright <nddrylliog> locks: he's to D what I'm to ooc <nddrylliog> locks: guilty
02:11:59 <HackEgo> 258) <Sgeo> Is there a name for something where I'm more attracted to someone if I know they've had a rough past? <variable> Sgeo, "Little Shop of Horrors"
02:12:01 <HackEgo> 205) <oklopol> comex: what? <oklopol> *vorpal <oklopol> comex: hi, tab-complete completed c to comex instead of Vorpal, dunno why
02:12:01 <HackEgo> 359) <oklopol> i'm really sleep
02:12:02 <HackEgo> 165) <ivancastillo75> Oh I get it you guys just use this space to do nothing ?
02:12:03 <HackEgo> 335) <anekant> what does coffee do to biological neural networks <JRowe> what tiger blood does for charlie sheen
02:12:05 <HackEgo> 166) <Sgeo> Why shouldn't I just do everything in non-Microsoft-specific C#? <ais523> it's like trying to write non-IE-specific JavaScript with only Microsoft documentation and only IE to test on
02:12:05 <HackEgo> 119) <Keiya> I want a patent on common sense <Keiya> It wouldn't get me much though >_>
02:12:06 <HackEgo> 240) <pikhq> zzo38: A better definition would probably fix Avogadro's number. <Sgeo> It's broken?
02:12:07 <HackEgo> 337) <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, incidentally, I started my explorations again after getting bored of the Himalayas.
02:12:43 <elliott> our qdb is finally only mostly shitty
02:12:43 <oklopol> elliott: i'm rather open with my parents
02:12:53 <elliott> oklopol: so basically you have lots of incest?
02:12:59 <elliott> that's what that means don't you know
02:13:32 <Sgeo_> There is an attractive, and apparently smart, girl at school
02:13:34 <elliott> oklopol doesn't like facts :(
02:13:38 <elliott> Sgeo_: "apparently smart" lol
02:13:42 <elliott> "bro, I heard she's really smart"
02:13:43 <Sgeo_> I think she either likes me, is neutral towards me, or dislikes me
02:13:50 <elliott> Sgeo_: that was a joke right
02:14:01 <elliott> `addquote <Sgeo_> I think she either likes me, is neutral towards me, or dislikes me
02:14:03 <HackEgo> 371) <Sgeo_> I think she either likes me, is neutral towards me, or dislikes me
02:14:48 <Sgeo_> She did approach where I was sitting once, asked if she could sat there. I think at some point though, I said something that upset her. Not sure.
02:14:50 <oklopol> "335) <anekant> what does coffee do to biological neural networks <JRowe> what tiger blood does for charlie sheen" who the fuck is charlie sheen
02:15:15 <elliott> he's a bitchin' rockstar from mars apparently
02:15:24 <TeruFSX> a quite quotable and quite insane celebrity
02:15:43 <elliott> http://mediumlarge.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/cats-quote-charlie-sheen-the-2020-interview/
02:15:48 <elliott> http://mediumlarge.wordpress.com/2011/02/24/cats-quote-charlie-sheen/
02:15:48 <elliott> http://mediumlarge.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/cats-quote-charlie-sheen-the-2020-interview/
02:15:52 <elliott> TeruFSX: primarily quotable by cats
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02:16:37 <Yahweasel> I was hoping for Cats from Zero Wing.
02:17:09 <elliott> That would be even better.
02:21:40 <oklopol> those cats don't help me as much as i'd hoped
02:24:49 <elliott> oklopol: he's this actor on this terrible sitcom. then he spent a weekend doing insane amounts of cocaine and hookers.
02:24:57 <elliott> forcing him to go to hospital
02:25:14 <elliott> oklopol: then he turned completely manic bipolar and insane, and his show got cancelled because he's insane
02:25:17 <elliott> and he raged about it insanely
02:25:22 <elliott> and now he's doing a tour where people go to see him be insane
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02:28:52 <elliott> sgeo is ogling another tarded girl
02:28:56 <pikhq> Why must even menial employment be difficult?
02:29:44 <pikhq> I literally can't even get a job flipping burgers.
02:30:29 <pikhq> I'm afraid I desire real currency, not peanuts.
02:31:06 <elliott> pikhq: come work at the Esoteric Research Institute
02:31:09 <pikhq> Yes, but they do not make a good item for trade or barter.
02:31:25 <elliott> the idea is, we pay you to dick around and code awesome impractical shit all day
02:31:34 <elliott> don't ask what our business model is. that's not _your_ problem.
02:32:47 <pikhq> Indeed, so long as the checks cash I needn't care much about the sanity of those responsible for there being money to fund me. :P
02:33:01 <pikhq> However, I suspect that that may be an issue.
02:33:43 <elliott> pikhq: we assure you that it is _impossible_ to prove that ERI is funded by illegal activities. so you have nothing to worry about!
02:34:22 <elliott> Define "two hundred thousand dollars a year", peasant.
02:34:26 <pikhq> I, quite honestly, don't have the capacity to give a fuck about most illegal but moral activities.
02:34:46 <elliott> Hey, I never said it wasn't illegal, I just said it was impossible to prove we were funded illegally.
02:35:20 <pikhq> Though I would have preferred silver dollars. :P
02:35:21 <elliott> We could pay you in Bitcoins if you preferred. Or maple syrup.
02:38:37 <elliott> pikhq: DO YOU WANT TO BE PAID IN MAPLE SYRUP
02:38:46 <elliott> It will NEVER have inflation, depreciation, ...
02:40:40 <Yahweasel> Uhh, fairly certain maple syrup spoils :P
02:40:55 <pikhq> Yahweasel: I wouldn't be so sure.
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02:41:11 <Yahweasel> I'm not /positive/, but then, it's not honey.
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02:41:39 <pikhq> Pretty sure it has enough sugar to kill bacteria by osmosis.
02:41:59 <elliott> Yahweasel: Spoiled maple syrup: still better than any other liquid?
02:42:37 <elliott> news-ham has again survived an X restart.
02:42:39 <news-ham> Fighter O'Sullivan keen for more: Ronnie O’Sullivan says he can win more world titles after his first-round victory over Dominic Dale but will quit if he stops enjoying snooker again. http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/sport1/hi/snooker/13137748.stm
02:42:40 <pikhq> Oh, there is a worry with it.
02:42:45 <pikhq> Maple syrup can ferment.
02:43:10 <pikhq> I APPROVE OF MAPLE LIQUOR
02:44:56 <elliott> Yahweasel: You have to ferment maple syrup now.
02:46:17 <pikhq> It apparently can be made into a maple mead.
02:46:59 <elliott> http://davespicks.com/writing/mme/recipes/honeymaple.html With honey :P
02:47:24 <elliott> pikhq: I wonder if fermented maple syrup itself would taste nice...
02:47:48 <pikhq> Worth experimenting.
02:48:20 <Yahweasel> It would taste very much like rum I assume.
02:48:26 <pikhq> Yahweasel: Not really.
02:48:43 <pikhq> Yahweasel: First, rum is made from molasses or sugar cane juice.
02:48:58 <pikhq> Yahweasel: Second, it's distilled. Distillation produces rather different flavors.
02:49:28 <pikhq> This hypothetical maple drink would be a straight fermented beverage.
02:49:56 <elliott> Maple syrup is pretty damn thick, you know :P
02:49:59 <Yahweasel> The former point is irrelevant though.
02:50:08 <elliott> You might have to mix it into something at the end to get it drinkable.
02:50:18 <pikhq> elliott: So's honey.
02:50:35 <elliott> Honey's thicker, obviously :P
02:50:51 <pikhq> You'd probably do what you usually do with mead: water the honey down before fermenting.
02:51:02 <elliott> You ferment pure maple syrup.
02:51:16 <pikhq> Yahweasel: Different flavors in the unfermented product will produce different flavors in the fermented product.
02:51:33 <pikhq> Yahweasel: In case you didn't notice, molasses and maple syrup have very distinct flavors.
02:52:06 <elliott> Yahweasel: You must do it X_X
02:52:57 <elliott> Yahweasel: Dude, EVERYONE drinks for Fermented Maple Syrup.
02:52:57 <pikhq> If I had sufficient space and some spare cash, I'd try.
02:53:07 <elliott> And you're the resident Beverage Maker.
02:53:09 <pikhq> Though, it would be the first thing brewed by me.
02:53:10 <elliott> Yahweasel: BUT NOW THE RESIDENT BEVERAGE MAKER
02:53:10 <pikhq> Yahweasel: Why, may I ask, do you not drink?
02:53:10 <Yahweasel> I don't even like most beverages that other people like :P
02:53:13 <elliott> pikhq: I am going to give you money and you are going to use that money to make fermented maple syrup.
02:53:24 <elliott> How much cash do you require to make this possible. You must use high-quality Canadian maple syrup.
02:53:28 <Yahweasel> pikhq: I don't like it. <pikhq> Oh you just haven't {had GOOD X,developed a taste for X,blah blah blah some other bullshit X}.
02:53:51 <elliott> Yahweasel: omg we agree :D
02:53:59 <elliott> Alcoholic drinks don't taste good :P
02:54:03 <elliott> APART FROM FERMENTED MAPLE SYRUP
02:54:06 <elliott> WHICH CANNOT POSSIBLY TASTE BAD
02:54:16 <pikhq> Yahweasel: I shan't say "you haven't developed a taste for X", as I liked it right away...
02:54:32 <pikhq> Yahweasel: But I must say, there's a decent chance you've had shit.
02:54:48 <pikhq> Yahweasel: There's also a decent chance that anosmia sucks.
02:54:59 <pikhq> elliott: I KNOW NOT
02:55:08 <elliott> pikhq: Find out how much you'd need to make it happen.
02:55:27 <Yahweasel> pikhq: There's also a decent chance that I've had expensive dinners in Genoa, Prague and London :P
02:55:37 <pikhq> Yahweasel: Ah, right.
02:55:42 <pikhq> Yahweasel: So, anosmia sucks.
02:55:47 <Yahweasel> And expensive dinners in the former two include expensive wine (whether you want them to or not)
02:55:53 <Yahweasel> ANd wine tastes EXACTLY like chilled coffee.
02:56:03 <oklopol> chilled coffee tastes awesome
02:56:07 <pikhq> ... Not even vaguely close to me.
02:56:24 <pikhq> Though iced coffee is pretty awesome with some cream & sugar.
02:56:34 <pikhq> elliott: Point is, his nose spites good taste.
02:56:36 <elliott> I'm pretty sure wine, sans the aroma, is similar to coffee.
02:56:39 <Yahweasel> Chilled, "sweetened" coffee, although as far as I can tell sweetening coffee just makes it sour (so more like wine)
02:57:00 <elliott> Yahweasel: What does coke taste like to you, acid water? :P
02:57:08 <pikhq> Hmm. Actually, sans aroma, the major taste in both would be "bitter"...
02:57:28 <Yahweasel> elliott: I can actually taste the sweetness in coke :P
02:57:33 <Yahweasel> elliott: And juice, for that matter.
02:57:47 <elliott> Yahweasel: What does Dr Pepper taste like?
02:57:59 <oklopol> i'm never hungry because i love eating too much to want to wait
02:58:15 <pikhq> ... Dr Pepper, fruity?
02:58:17 <Yahweasel> What is it supposed to taste like? :P
02:58:20 <elliott> I'm trying to get INTERESTING RESULTS.
02:58:24 <elliott> Dr Pepper ... IS fruity :P
02:58:28 <elliott> Fruity with... you know, other shit.
02:58:35 <elliott> Yahweasel: Vanilla essence?
02:58:40 <pikhq> elliott: Doesn't really taste "fruity" to me.
02:58:41 <Yahweasel> pikhq: Not like berry-y, but like some of the warmer fruits.
02:58:49 <pikhq> I'm not sure how to describe it, really.
02:59:04 <Yahweasel> elliott: ... is "vanilla essence" something one drinks? :P
02:59:11 <elliott> pikhq: Dr Pepper tastes like Dr Pepper, but it is unquestionably something _like_ Cherry Coke.
02:59:17 <elliott> FAR superior, but it _does_ have a shitload of fruits.
02:59:25 <Yahweasel> OK Tia, it's time to stop taking up of the bed >_<
02:59:25 <pikhq> elliott: Except with less cherry.
02:59:27 <elliott> Yahweasel: Do you... not know what "vanilla essence" is?
02:59:28 <pikhq> elliott: Okay, fair enough.
02:59:32 <elliott> <Yahweasel> OK Tia, it's time to stop taking up ¾ of the bed >_<
02:59:40 <elliott> "Why did I ever marry you."
02:59:50 <elliott> "Why did I ever marry a cat."
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03:00:06 <pikhq> elliott: And yet, adding cherry to it makes it amazing.
03:00:27 <Yahweasel> elliott: Are you referring to vanilla extract or something?
03:00:42 <elliott> Yahweasel: It's really strong vanilla in alcohol in really tiny bottles.
03:00:53 <elliott> Yahweasel: I am _not_ referring to the shit that you get in huge bottles that's diluted to hell.
03:00:58 <pikhq> Yeah, that's vanilla extract.
03:01:18 <elliott> Yahweasel: http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Pride-Vanilla-Essence-Big.gif
03:01:23 <pikhq> You can actually get vanilla extract in huge bottles. I know not the cost.
03:01:41 <oklopol> Yahweasel: i'm sure fat cats are used to getting as great a percentage of a bed as they like
03:01:46 <elliott> pikhq: Fermented (maple syrup + bit of vanilla extract): oh god so fuckinszg deliciosudfghjk
03:02:11 <Yahweasel> Right, so vanilla extract, got it :P
03:02:18 <pikhq> "Imitation vanilla extract is usually made by soaking alcohol into wood, which contains vanillin."
03:02:21 <pikhq> This makes me sad.
03:03:08 <elliott> Yahweasel lives in a world of richness :P
03:03:42 <elliott> Yahweasel: (I am trolling you)
03:03:43 <Yahweasel> Imitation vanilla extract really isn't that bad, depending on the usage.
03:04:23 <elliott> Even the alcohol base of vanilla essence is unacceptable.
03:04:26 <elliott> It must be PURE LIQUID VANILLA
03:04:43 <pikhq> It's insufficiently vanilla-y.
03:04:43 <elliott> oklopol: stop having so much sex
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03:05:20 <pikhq> ... Vanilla extract could be considered an alcoholic beverage.
03:05:30 <pikhq> And yet, it's purchasable by those under 21 in the US.
03:05:35 <oklopol> i should really start taking 5 minute walking breaks between 8 hour sleep segments after having spent the last night doing a jigsaw puzzle on the floor
03:06:27 <pikhq> Yup, minimum 70 proof...
03:07:04 <elliott> pikhq: omg let's get shitfaced on vanilla extract
03:07:15 <elliott> oklopol: dude, i wanna do jigsaws
03:07:31 <pikhq> Wouldn't even take *that* much. A few shots, I suppose?
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03:08:00 <elliott> most delicious way to get drunk ever
03:08:10 <pikhq> Anyways, if I *really* wanted to get shitfaced, I'd just get a bottle of vodka...
03:08:18 <elliott> pikhq: can you find out how much it would cost you to ferment maple syrup, thanks
03:08:47 <oklopol> elliott: i will do a jigsaw puzzle with you if you like, sure
03:08:47 <pikhq> I think I'm going to charge $40,000.
03:09:00 <elliott> pikhq: stop joking the fuck around, i want to make this happen
03:09:03 <elliott> pikhq: SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY
03:10:04 <pikhq> elliott: No, but seriously, what I need is an indeterminate amount of money to get practice at homebrewing.
03:10:11 <pikhq> In addition to equipment and *space*.
03:10:26 <elliott> pikhq: Basically, what you need is a job :P
03:10:43 <elliott> pikhq: And surely you can just BREW IN A CORNER
03:10:50 <pikhq> Though, given a decent income, I'd be liable to try my hand at homebrewing *anyways*...
03:11:06 <elliott> I need to get around to making Swig Ingest Drink.
03:11:44 <elliott> Then whoever makes fermented maple syrup and vanilla gets to create Swig Ingest Drunk: Just Like the Real Thing, Only More Alcoholic.
03:13:24 <pikhq> Certainly, homebrewed beverages can be positively delicious.
03:13:40 * pikhq <3's his uncle's wine
03:13:53 <elliott> pikhq also less-than-threes his uncle.
03:13:58 <elliott> ALL I AM ASKING HERE IS: THE QUESTIONS
03:14:10 <elliott> a desperate attempt for recovery from loss of smell"
03:14:22 <pikhq> elliott: I'm pretty sure you can't imply that which you explicitly state. :)
03:14:30 <elliott> pikhq: O RLY? Glenn Beck does it all the time.
03:14:55 <elliott> So cheese is milk that's off...
03:15:01 <elliott> Let's say maple syrup spoils.
03:15:05 <elliott> Let it spoil, then ferment it.
03:15:12 <elliott> THIS IS JUST A SOURCE OF AMAZINGNESS
03:15:17 <elliott> Yahweasel: Lemme guess, milk tastes like piss to you? :P
03:15:33 <Yahweasel> It's actually mostly a texture thing with milk.
03:15:53 <elliott> Bro, we have both been drinking milk, but the milk I have been drinking is not the milk that you have been drinking.
03:15:59 <Yahweasel> It leaves that sticky feeling in the roof of your mouth.
03:16:00 <pikhq> Yahweasel: I'm frightened of your milk.
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03:16:07 <elliott> My milk is smooth and silky and cold.
03:16:23 <pikhq> elliott: I can confirm that this isn't pan-American.
03:16:26 <Yahweasel> Milk is anything but smooth and silky.
03:16:34 <elliott> Yahweasel: s/Milk/The milk I've drunk/
03:16:45 <elliott> Yahweasel: Was it skimmed in any way?
03:16:55 <elliott> If it wasn't, semi-skimmed might be more to your liking /shrug
03:16:56 <Yahweasel> I've had 2%, 1%, skim, soy, whole ...
03:17:11 <Yahweasel> Milk is just godawfully bad. Not as bad as cheese, but horrible.
03:17:13 <elliott> "Two samples of human breast milk" -- first picture on [[Milk]]
03:17:22 <pikhq> ... "Not as bad as cheese" WUT?
03:17:26 <elliott> Yahweasel: I swear to god, milk is smooth and silky over here :P
03:17:35 <pikhq> Oh, wait, American. Most American cheese is godawful.
03:17:38 <elliott> I wouldn't drink it if it did shit to the roof of my mouth.
03:18:00 <elliott> It has pretty much the same texture as nice smooth orange juice for me /shrug
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03:19:15 <Yahweasel> pikhq: Been to Genoa. Been to Prague. Will soon be to Paris. I promise you, I hate cheese.
03:20:04 <elliott> Doods. Milk is NOT STICKY it is the BEST believe me
03:20:05 <Yahweasel> Same texture as ORANGE JUICE (minus acidity)???
03:20:26 <elliott> Yahweasel: You hate orange juice?
03:20:26 -!- pikhq has set topic: We are now taking up collections for the "Gregor needs a sense of smell" fund | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | Some logs also available at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
03:20:30 <elliott> I was just trying to make an example.
03:20:35 <Yahweasel> It is as bad as a beverage can be.
03:20:36 <elliott> It literally just has the texture of... liquid.
03:20:51 <elliott> SRSLY come to Britain we have nice milk from nice cows.
03:20:54 <elliott> IT ISN'T STICKY I PROMISE YOU
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03:21:04 <elliott> Have you been having milk that didn't just come straight out of a good fridge?
03:21:25 <Yahweasel> Why is it that every time I describe a food/drink I don't like, people assume my sample size is one :P
03:21:42 <elliott> It's just that milk is _really insanely hard_ to get right :P
03:21:50 <elliott> I /hate/ 90 percent of milk because 90 percent of milk is terrible.
03:21:57 <pikhq> Yahweasel: Because you're describing things that are the very incarnation of deliciousness as "bad". :P
03:22:25 <elliott> Yahweasel: It has to be the right brand, the right skimmedness (depends on brand, etc.), and it has to have either been in a good fridge for ages or, preferably, in the freezer for the last ten minutes, and it then has to be served and drunk immediately.
03:23:10 <Yahweasel> And you have to do this while standing on your head, while Jupiter is at its zenith and Orion's Belt is visible in the western sky.
03:23:28 <elliott> I don't drink milk that often because it is such a coordinated practice to drink it :P
03:23:55 <pikhq> The hell foods *do* you like, Yahweasel?
03:23:56 <elliott> In 2010 a college professor named Mark Haub went on a "convenience store" diet consisting mainly of Twinkies, Oreos, and Doritos in an attempt to demonstrate to his students "that in weight loss, pure calorie counting is what matters most—not the nutritional value of the food". He lost 27 pounds over a 2 month period, returning his BMI to within normal range.[11]
03:24:08 <elliott> pikhq: Yahweasel survives on a diet composed entirely of Moxie.
03:24:46 <elliott> Two-thirds of his total intake came from junk food. He also took a multivitamin pill and drank a protein shake daily. And he ate vegetables, typically a can of green beans or three to four celery stalks.
03:25:09 <Yahweasel> pikhq: Everything substantial I don't like is: Dairy, fish, various beverages.
03:25:20 <Yahweasel> Other than that, I like most everything.
03:25:28 <pikhq> Yahweasel: Fish? The fuck?
03:25:34 <pikhq> Yahweasel: What about fish do you not like?
03:25:55 <elliott> Fish has a horrible texture and a horrible flavour.
03:25:59 <elliott> Everything about it is bad.
03:26:13 <pikhq> elliott: LIES AND DECEIT
03:26:18 <elliott> Yahweasel: Do you like pizza.
03:26:21 <elliott> (I am testing Yahweasel's humanity.)
03:26:25 <pikhq> Though it's better uncooked. :P
03:26:35 <elliott> Yahweasel: You can have pizza without cheese.
03:26:49 <Yahweasel> elliott: You CAN, but people look at you funny and you get disowned.
03:26:51 <elliott> (But... how does the utterly mild cheese cause distaste to you in pizza?)
03:26:59 <pikhq> Yeah, "cheese on all pizza" is an Americanism.
03:27:02 <elliott> It doesn't even have the texture.
03:27:11 <elliott> Yahweasel: OK, I've figured out the problem.
03:27:26 <elliott> Yahweasel: Your definition of "taste" is one that involves not having a nose.
03:27:32 <elliott> Therefore it is utterly unrelated to the sense known as "taste".
03:27:37 <elliott> I propose you use the word "fnarf" instead.
03:28:00 <Yahweasel> The fnarf of liver paste is quite good, but the fnarf of cheese is abysmally bad.
03:28:01 <elliott> Mozzarella on pizza /fnarfs/ like dying and hell.
03:28:35 <elliott> Yahweasel: But yah, you can easily have pizza without cheese, it's a diverse field :P
03:28:44 <elliott> I keep meaning to make some pizza.
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03:28:56 <Yahweasel> elliott: I like no-cheese pizza, you just can't buy that here :P
03:29:15 <pikhq> Yahweasel: And if anyone accuses you of being inauthentic, disown them.
03:29:16 <Yahweasel> Why bother? I can make better things.
03:29:45 <elliott> http://www.textism.com/2008/06/10/on.pie ;; This will make everyone instantly hungry and want to make home-made pizza.
03:29:53 <elliott> pikhq: Please confirm the above.
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03:32:23 <pikhq> elliott: I confirm that I want home-made pizza to satiate my hunger.
03:32:37 <elliott> oerjan: hi, we're causing ourselves debilitating stress by reading an article that instantly causes anyone, anywhere to rabidly desire home-made pizza
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03:33:30 <pikhq> ... Unstoned olives? WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT
03:33:45 <elliott> Olives? WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT
03:33:52 <elliott> Olives are designed for: making olive oil.
03:33:59 <elliott> After that, they should be destroyed.
03:34:00 <oerjan> no. i have (almost) home-made smoked salmon.
03:34:00 <lambdabot> oerjan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
03:34:12 <elliott> oerjan: ooh do it in channel
03:34:33 <oerjan> elliott: you were two seconds too late
03:34:52 <lambdabot> tell provides: tell ask messages messages? clear-messages
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03:35:13 <oerjan> lambdabot> Phantom_Hoover said 3h 21m 44s ago: At the first available opportunity, go to the Norwegian link in http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0140673605633338 and transfer it to my possession...
03:35:13 <lambdabot> oerjan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
03:35:17 -!- wth has joined.
03:35:17 <oerjan> 05:33 =lambdabot> somehow.
03:35:23 <lambdabot> elliott said 25s ago: I have erased all the evidence. The mugging is at dawn.
03:35:23 <elliott> oerjan: OMG DO IT IN PUBLIC
03:35:32 <elliott> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
03:35:48 <oerjan> elliott: yes, i checked the logs before pasting
03:36:00 <lambdabot> tell provides: tell ask messages messages? clear-messages
03:36:12 -!- wth has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
03:36:18 <lambdabot> messages?. Tells you whether you have any messages
03:36:27 -!- wth has joined.
03:37:02 <oerjan> sadly there seems to be no way to get lambdabot to repeat it in channel afterwards
03:37:02 <lambdabot> oerjan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
03:37:08 <lambdabot> AnMaster said 23s ago: I am ready for the sexy times... name a date and I'll be there ;)
03:37:24 * pikhq is sad that lambdabot can't tell messages for yourself
03:37:32 <elliott> pikhq: EXCUSE ME, THIS IS A SCANDAL
03:37:34 <oerjan> 05:36 AnMaster [~elliott@91.104.230.10]
03:37:34 <oerjan> 05:36 was : Elliott Hird
03:37:34 <oerjan> 05:36 server : zelazny.freenode.net [Wed Apr 20 03:36:23 2011]
03:37:51 <oerjan> also, i already knew that was possible :D
03:38:05 <elliott> well Vorpal is still ready for the sexy times, he just wanted me to relay the message.
03:38:05 <lambdabot> elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
03:38:12 <lambdabot> pikhq said 20s ago: What do you mean, *this* is a scandal? What about our little scandal?
03:38:21 <elliott> @tell pikhq DON'T TELL THEM ABOUT THE SCANDAL
03:38:26 <oerjan> (i checked it after that first message which i annoyed you by doing in public, because it _looked_ like it could be a fake)
03:38:28 <lambdabot> pikhq: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
03:38:32 <lambdabot> elliott said 11s ago: DON'T TELL THEM ABOUT THE SCANDAL
03:38:44 <elliott> @tell pikhq YOU'RE MAKING IT WORSE, STOP READING MESSAGES IN PUBLIC
03:38:54 <pikhq> @tell elliott FAIL
03:38:55 <lambdabot> elliott said 11s ago: YOU'RE MAKING IT WORSE, STOP READING MESSAGES IN PUBLIC
03:39:06 <elliott> @tell pikhq THIS IS RIDICULOUS
03:39:10 <lambdabot> elliott said 3s ago: THIS IS RIDICULOUS
03:39:15 <lambdabot> elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
03:39:42 <elliott> I wonder if /nick lilo works
03:40:05 <oerjan> @tell phantom_hoover you appear to have this delusion that i have journal accesses...
03:40:11 <pikhq> I wouldn't be surprised if there's a K-line attached.
03:40:14 <elliott> oerjan: erm it's _free_ in norway
03:40:38 <elliott> * lilo :Erroneous Nickname
03:40:41 <elliott> maybe they got a log though
03:40:42 <pikhq> Fuck you; I liked lilo.
03:41:03 <elliott> pikhq: Who says we can't imitate those we liked?
03:41:25 <elliott> http://encyclopediadramatica.ch/Rob_Levin
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03:42:19 <elliott> The good folks at Archive Team have a bounty for the whole thing.
03:42:25 <elliott> Only 90 bucks, but that's a lot for basement-dwellers :)
03:42:54 * pikhq salutes Archive Team
03:44:37 <pikhq> Yahweasel: They archive websites that are shutting down.
03:44:46 <pikhq> Currently, they're archiving Google Video.
03:44:49 <pikhq> Yes, the whole thing.
03:45:05 <elliott> Yahweasel: http://www.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Main_Page
03:45:15 <elliott> Yahweasel: Lead by Jason Scott, author of a buncha documentaries and a blog. You've heard of him.
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03:45:23 <elliott> Yahweasel: They archived shitloads of Geocities. And others.
03:45:41 <elliott> "Congratulations, Google Video! With your announcement today you're removing access to all user uploaded video in 15 days, you outsmarted us!" --their Twitter
03:46:13 <pikhq> Damned shame that Google didn't just chuck some hard drives at archive.org and write it off.
03:46:48 <elliott> When you're as big as Google, such loss of data happens by only one means: a complete failure to give a shit.
03:47:06 <elliott> Still, the shutdown of Geocities was far worse.
03:47:21 <oerjan> elliott: what, ED has disappeared? of course i _did_ avoid visiting it...
03:47:29 <pikhq> Yes, it still doesn't change that it's a dick move by Google.
03:47:39 <elliott> oerjan: Yes. It now redirects to "Oh Internet", the most SFW, irritating piece of shit website ever.
03:47:46 -!- wth has joined.
03:47:46 <elliott> Because its owner decided it wasn't profitable enough.
03:48:03 <elliott> pikhq: Big red button to erase half of the internets + Yahoo executives = Oooh shiny. I think I'll press it.
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03:48:39 <elliott> <elliott> pikhq: Big red button to erase half of the internets + Yahoo executives = Oooh shiny. I think I'll press it.
03:48:42 <oerjan> you mean ads that repel the majority of your potential readership isn't profitable? how weird.
03:49:06 <pikhq_> Yeah, Yahoo!'s handling of it was *really* shitty.
03:49:22 <elliott> oerjan: The /ads/ repelled you?
03:49:24 <pikhq_> Especially given how freaking small Geocities was by modern standards.
03:49:28 <elliott> They were hardly more NSFW than the rest of the images.
03:49:36 <pikhq_> They could've stuck the whole thing on a couple of drives.
03:49:41 <elliott> And you're hardly "the majority of your potential readership" :P
03:49:50 <pikhq_> Remember, kids, a terabyte is not much!
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03:50:13 <oerjan> elliott: well i understood ED also had some interesting information.
03:50:24 <elliott> oerjan: that doesn't mean it was SFW
03:50:34 <elliott> the useful information was to the left of the cocks.
03:51:24 <oerjan> <pikhq> I wouldn't be surprised if there's a K-line attached. <-- that _would_ be a bit harsh, someone might not know about the older nick and it has at least two well-known meanings so people might easily choose it
03:54:13 -!- elliott has changed nick to ililoalot.
03:54:15 -!- ililoalot has changed nick to elliott.
03:57:04 <elliott> oerjan: read that article it is so :pizza:
03:58:50 <pikhq_> Jason Scott is now Archivist for the Internet Archive.
03:58:56 <oerjan> elliott: i'm currently busy with phantom_hoover's quest
04:00:04 <elliott> 10apr2011 sabotage, a new distribution based on musl and busybox. Yes, I bootstrapped a new Linux distribution.
04:01:35 <oerjan> sadly phantom_hoover's article is just a rather boring half-page summary
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04:10:35 <oerjan> <pikhq> Likewise for the Marines, Navy, and (hypothetically) Army, Coast Guard, Public Health Service Commissioned Corps, or National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Commissioned Corps.
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04:10:53 <oerjan> "National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Commissioned Corps 1 incoming!"
04:11:30 <oerjan> <TeruFSX> i don't know how norwegians smell
04:11:37 <oerjan> delicious. also soap and milk.
04:11:49 <pikhq_> oerjan: Yes, this could hypothetically happen.
04:11:58 <pikhq_> But, the NOAA has no planes.
04:13:13 <pikhq_> Borrowed from the Navy as needed.
04:15:12 <oerjan> i mean do they also get a One designation? this could be hilarious if the president somehow ended up on QE2 or the like...
04:16:21 <pikhq_> If the President is on it, it's fucking getting a One designation.
04:16:29 <pikhq_> Two is reserved for the Vice President.
04:16:34 * oerjan suddenly wonders if abbreviating Queen Elizabeth Two is appropriate
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04:32:19 * pikhq_ wonders at music videos that make no sense
04:33:44 <pikhq_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqrwN-HhnC8&NR=1&feature=fvwp No, this does *not* make any more sense if you understand the lyrics.
04:38:46 <pikhq_> "1) If God exists, then all morals and values are subject to God's will.
04:38:46 <pikhq_> 2) If all morals and values are subject to God's will, then morality is subjective.
04:38:49 <pikhq_> 3) If morality is subjective, then objective morals and values do not exist.
04:38:51 <pikhq_> 4) Therefore, if God exists, then objective morals and values do not exist."
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04:40:42 <pikhq> (source: http://www.unifreethought.com/2011/04/refutation-of-moral-argument-or.html "A Refutation of The Moral Argument, or The Argument From Trollface")
04:44:53 <pikhq> If morality were objective, then it could not possibly be defined by the perception of a single entity.
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04:45:15 <pikhq> And if morality is subjective, then it could not possibly be the exact opposite of subjective.
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05:00:43 <pikhq> As soon as I get my computer working again, my minecart station is going to get uberawesome.
05:00:54 <pikhq> 3 high. Fuck yeah.
05:02:36 <oerjan> i believe the customary notation for that is [3]
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05:04:40 * pikhq sentences oerjan to a 50x50 row reduction
05:08:06 <pikhq> I'll pet this kitty while you do that.
05:14:00 <oerjan> *Determinant> det [[i^2 + j^2 | i <- [1..50]] | j <- [1..50]]
05:14:50 <Sgeo_> oerjan, I'd almost certainly mess it up
05:15:08 <oerjan> i wrote that Determinant module years ago
05:16:32 <pikhq> oerjan: I take it that that does determinant via row reduction.
05:16:45 <oerjan> well something essentially row reduction, anyway
05:17:42 * pikhq was so very annoyed when expansion by cofactors was first taught.
05:18:02 <pikhq> I am *pained* by O(n!) algorithms.
05:18:28 <oerjan> yeah that's presumably useful for proving properties, though
05:18:50 <pikhq> Yes, but jeeeze O(n!) is just cruel.
05:19:37 <oerjan> for the permanent iiuc the best algorithm is _still_ something not much better than that
05:19:49 <pikhq> Row reduction is O(n^3)...
05:20:33 <pikhq> P is significantly better than NP. :)
05:20:57 <oerjan> i'm not sure computing the permanent is even in NP
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05:21:13 <oerjan> it's #P-complete, it was called
05:21:16 * pikhq realises he should look up "permanent"
05:21:31 <oerjan> (there was a recent Godel's Letter post about this)
05:22:02 <oerjan> it's like the cofactor expansion except the sign is always positive
05:22:45 <pikhq> Yeah, the nice algorithm doesn't apply.
05:23:59 <oerjan> iirc the blog post or possibly a comment mentioned that using other group characters instead for the sign, you have a dichotomy where the calculation problem is _either_ in P or #P-complete. or maybe i'm misremembering.
05:25:13 <pikhq> Indeed, the permanent is not in NP.
05:25:23 <pikhq> Even proving #P=NP would be somewhat interesting.
05:25:51 <oerjan> yeah (well technically one is a function problem class and the other is a decision problem class)
05:27:39 <oerjan> probably was this one http://rjlipton.wordpress.com/2011/03/22/valiants-permanent-contributions/
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05:29:20 <oerjan> s/probably/most definitely/
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05:30:24 * pikhq wonders if there is, indeed, an elegant proof of Fermat's Last Theorem that the margin is too small to contain
05:32:16 <oerjan> ah yes David Bacon's comment about the imman[ae]nt is what i was thinking of
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05:34:46 <oerjan> i may have been confused about the dichotomy thing, and possibly kwregan's following comment
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10:53:35 <lambdabot> Phantom_Hoover: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
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13:53:46 <oerjan> ais523: nice timing, i just saw [[AAAAAAAAAAAAAA
13:53:55 <oerjan> ]] and wondered if it needs deletion
13:54:23 <oerjan> it seems to have nothing to do with esolangs
13:55:28 <oerjan> it doesn't seem to be spam
13:56:43 <ais523> oerjan: it may be a reference to a famous page on Uncyclopedia
13:57:02 <oerjan> maybe. we also have a similarly named esolang.
13:57:09 <ais523> the actual esolang is, I think
13:57:12 <ais523> but that page is just meaningless
13:57:35 <ais523> I've deleted it as offtopic
13:57:53 <ais523> the bar for topicality isn't all that high on Esolang, but that somehow managed to dive well below it anyway
13:58:33 <Phantom_Hoover> Actually, I've always wanted to draw up some Feynmanoid diagrams in Life, and present them as part of a physics paper showing the latest results from the LGC.
13:59:17 <oerjan> large glider collider?
14:01:11 <oerjan> which doesn't actually makes sense, since glider means only the smallest spaceship
14:03:02 <Phantom_Hoover> Same as the LHC doesn't collide large hadrons; it actually collides the smallest ones.
14:03:16 * oerjan swats his brain -----###
14:03:37 <oerjan> hadron = baryon or meson
14:03:54 <oerjan> (barring some theoretical > 3 quark combinations)
14:04:39 <oerjan> well protons are the only stable ones
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14:47:22 <cheater-> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=647959
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15:26:43 <Gregor> Maaaaaaaaan, when I actually have a QUESTION for ##javascript , it's all *chirp chirp* :P
15:28:51 <elliott> - Ask a question like a human would -> YOU WERE IMPRECISE. YOU WILL NOW RECEIVE THE PAIN.
15:29:05 <Gregor> elliott: https://github.com/mozilla/narcissus/pull/31 <-- observe the greatest code I have ever written
15:29:09 <elliott> - Ask a question with ridiculous precision, going so far as to cite the exact ISO standard identifier that defines C90 -> chirp chirp
15:29:24 <ais523> elliott: I like comp.lang.c, because at least the second sort of question does normally get an answer
15:29:30 <ais523> (and the first gets flamed into oblivion)
15:29:39 <elliott> ais523: Hey, comp.lang.c probably doesn't have PoppaVic too.
15:30:03 <elliott> Gregor: Wow at isValidIdentifierChar :P
15:30:10 <fizzie> The first one gets replies from them trolls about how "c.l.c fascists" are soon going to flame the question into oblivion.
15:30:10 <elliott> Gregor: That's so metacircular it's cheating :P
15:30:17 <elliott> Like function narcissusEval(x) { return eval(x); }
15:30:26 <elliott> ais523: https://github.com/mozilla/narcissus/pull/31
15:30:34 <elliott> If you refuse to /click links/ to GitHub, I don't care.
15:30:56 <ais523> that's just a pull request
15:30:56 <elliott> Gregor: "Note that I did it this way after spending ten minutes compiling a database of all the relevant Unicode codepoints. I vote we don't do that :P" ;; Isn't there a file with all that shit?
15:31:03 <elliott> ais523: With the function I referenced.
15:31:03 <ais523> I did click the link, the information I wanted wasn't on the other end of it
15:31:08 <elliott> Yes it was. You are blind.
15:31:12 <Gregor> elliott: Yes, but that would involve adding megs of bullshit to Narcissus :P
15:31:15 <ais523> well none of the buttons on the page do anything
15:31:22 <ais523> does it require JavaScript or something?
15:31:31 <Gregor> elliott: Also ITYM that's so AWESOME it's almost cheatin g:P
15:31:51 <elliott> Gregor: It already has kilos of bullshit, constituting a JavaScript program (one half bullshit), and a JavaScript interpreter (one half bullshit), making one whole bullshit :P
15:32:01 <fizzie> It seems to require JavaScript and not from just github.com (which I did have whitelisted) but also from "cloudfront.net".
15:32:06 <Ilari> APNIC (3x/32+/48 IPv6): 2x1k to Australia, 2x1k to Hong Kong, /32 to Indonesia, 1k+/32 to India, 25x1k to Japan, 2x1k to South Korea, 1k to Lao People's Democratic Republic, /32 to New Zealand, /48 to Philipphines, 1k to Solomon Islands, 1k to Singapore, 1k to Vietnam.
15:32:28 * oerjan vaguely thought unicode implementations had character classification functions... at least i thought that was how ghc did it...
15:32:51 <elliott> Gregor: I should fork Narcissus and add e.g. block scoping, s-expression syntax, and make a pull request :trollface:
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15:33:28 <elliott> Gregor: BTW, re: megs of bullshit, I bet it could be expressed in a few k with a list of (start,end) ranges, plus maybe a list of specific codepoints to not include.
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15:34:20 <elliott> "Peculiar nouns: MIT AI hackers love to take various words and add the wrong endings to them to make nouns and verbs, often by extending a standard rule to nonuniform cases. Examples: porous => porosity. generous => generosity. Ergo:mysterious => mysteriosity. ferrous => ferocity. Other examples: winnitude, disgustitude, hackification."
15:34:33 <elliott> Ferocity: THIS WORD IS A WORD THAT IS HACKER SLANG TOTES
15:34:34 <Gregor> elliott: You'd have to sign a Mozilla committer agreement to do the pull request lololol <trollface/>
15:34:45 <elliott> Gregor: I can't, I'm a minor.
15:34:48 <elliott> I cannot agree to contracts.
15:35:00 <elliott> BUT I CAN PRESS BUTTONS THAT CREATE PULL REQUESTS :D
15:35:03 <Gregor> elliott: Then you can't commit to Narcissus!
15:35:16 <elliott> Gregor: No, but I can annoy those who doX
15:35:30 * elliott reads the Ammitter's Cogreement
15:35:44 <oerjan> he can commit to narcissism though
15:36:03 <elliott> Gregor: That is the stupidest agreement ever, it's "don't commit things that violate the license" + bullshit :P
15:36:40 <Gregor> elliott: It's NOT "you give us all your rights, so lol screw you"
15:36:50 <elliott> Gregor: ANYWAY, I totes saw a news article about this smarmy twelve-year-old shit who fixed a buffer overflow or something in Firefox.
15:37:19 <Gregor> Get somebody else to commit the code :P
15:37:40 <elliott> Gregor: Hey Gregor, wanna troll Narcissus committers ;D
15:38:44 <Gregor> There's only one direct committer, and no, I don't want to troll him :P
15:40:19 <elliott> EL CAMINO BIGNUM: El Camino Real, a street through the San Francisco peninsula that originally extended (and still appears in places) all the way to Mexico City. It was termed "El Camino Double Precision" when someone noted it was a very long street, and then "El Camino Bignum" when it was pointed out that it was hundreds of miles long.
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15:52:40 <elliott> How did ~/Code get this big.
16:07:08 <elliott> "GNOME3 will replace GNOME2 once it gets moved to [extra]." --Arch
16:17:37 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lists_of_lists
16:21:19 <elliott> olsner: I'm going to work on that Forth again :)
16:32:22 <Vorpal> <elliott> "GNOME3 will replace GNOME2 once it gets moved to [extra]." --Arch
16:32:27 <Vorpal> time to switch to xfce
16:32:42 <elliott> Vorpal: well, it'll still have gnome-panel and stuff as "fallback"
16:32:51 <elliott> but i don't think that will be maintained
16:33:07 <Vorpal> elliott, well okay, I will give gnome3 a try I guess.
16:33:19 <elliott> yeah, gnome three appears to be almost identical to two
16:33:21 <Vorpal> elliott, didn't you say you would fork and maintain that?
16:33:31 <Vorpal> elliott, okay, what is gnome-shell like?
16:33:41 <elliott> gnome-shell is the new thing.
16:33:47 <elliott> It is the worst piece of shit ever designed.
16:33:51 <Vorpal> uh, what is it that I use then?
16:34:09 <Vorpal> elliott, uh, isn't gnome-shell the terminal emulator?
16:34:14 <elliott> No, that's gnome-terminal.
16:34:22 <Vorpal> elliott, so they dropped metacity?
16:34:29 <oklopol> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_bisexual_people
16:34:48 <elliott> No, they just aren't using it by default. They're using Mutter, the compositing port of Metacity to Clutter, which is Metacity Three.
16:35:02 <elliott> Vorpal: Re: fork: Yeah, but between the fact that Unity is starting to look like it might actually be pretty good, and the fact that I'm planning to switch to a no-DE system on the desktop, means I'm not sure I care enough.
16:35:11 <Vorpal> elliott, I have to say I'm quite fond of metacity. It isn't fancy, but it gets the job done with minimal fuss.
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17:04:38 <elliott> What the fuck is this game.
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17:14:02 <crystal-cola> baez asks some interesting questions and yudkowski says "I'm writing a book"
17:14:21 <crystal-cola> http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2011/03/07/this-weeks-finds-week-311/
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17:16:17 <elliott> there's a less wrong channel
17:16:27 <elliott> which will have a high portion of transhumanists, i would wager
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17:23:11 <Sgeo_> Done. No observable results for you, though.
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17:23:36 <oerjan> it was a schrödinger comment. and it died.
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17:28:48 <elliott> internet relay porngramming
17:29:00 <elliott> (Deletion log); 13:56 . . Ais523 (Talk | contribs) (deleted "AAAAAAAAAAAAAA": offtopic (and the only contributor was '91.153.119.130'))
17:29:02 <elliott> ais523: what was the content?
17:29:06 <elliott> I need to know so I can make an esolang out of it
17:37:56 * Sgeo_ is no longer a VLC worshipper
17:38:16 <elliott> oerjan: you realise you just agreed strongly with Eliezer Yudkowsky :D
17:38:38 <oerjan> ...i realise you think i did
17:38:51 <elliott> oerjan: it is _impossible_ for you to be sarcastic
17:41:40 <crystal-cola> science is based on the unjustifiable assumption that the world conforms to logic
17:42:18 <elliott> crystal-cola: catch the wave
17:42:30 <elliott> crystal-cola: the wave... of power
17:43:16 <oklopol> elliott is a famous bisexual
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17:43:57 <oklopol> that's my new all-purpose slander
17:44:27 <elliott> your MOM is a famous bisexualist
17:44:42 <elliott> crystal-cola: but if the world doesn't conform to logic then the world conforms to logic, so it's reasonable to assume that the world conforms to logic :D
17:45:36 <ais523> <elliott> ais523: what was the content? <--- childish personal attacks, against someone I've never heard of
17:45:51 <ais523> it's the sort of vandalism Wikipedia gets
17:45:55 <elliott> ais523: I need more details, or I can't make an esolang out of it
17:46:14 <elliott> they posted it in a public place, I have a right to distort it into an esolang!
17:46:14 <ais523> you're not going to get them, because you don't go around repeating personal attacks
17:46:16 <ais523> however silly they are
17:46:21 <Gregor> <crystal-cola> bisexuality = mysogeny // lol, I'd love to hear the logic behind this X-D
17:46:24 <ais523> it's not fair to the person the attacks were against
17:46:26 <elliott> ais523: yes I do, maybe you don't :)
17:46:35 <elliott> was it actually a full name or was it just like
17:46:43 <ais523> but I can't remember it
17:46:47 <elliott> because i'm totally john, and i want to know what they said against me, john
17:47:52 <crystal-cola> oklopol: Nothing is more demeaning to a women than a ``bisexual'' mans distaste and fundamental non-acceptance of her femininity
17:48:30 <crystal-cola> see here http://www.mit.edu/~thistle/v9/9.06/4bisexuality.html
17:48:52 <elliott> crystal-cola: but how did you arrive at that conclusion
17:48:56 <elliott> the universe isn't based on logic
17:49:04 <olsner> <elliott> olsner: I'm going to work on that Forth again :) | <elliott> wait | <elliott> i can't type an at sign
17:49:08 <elliott> it /was/ totally illogical
17:49:31 <Gregor> Skipping to the end, "In conclusion, bisexuality is a form of inclusivity and supports feminism and homosexuality by challenging sexism and heterosexism and by seeking equality of the sexes."
17:49:32 <olsner> did that mean you were unable to do anything with the forth?
17:49:40 <crystal-cola> I don't try to force the false ideals of logic onto everythingg
17:49:54 <elliott> olsner: well i can't test it without renaming at, and at is encoded as zero, which I use to know when to stop searching :D
17:50:01 <crystal-cola> Gregor: yes but if you read it you'd see that she's completely wrong
17:50:04 <elliott> olsner: wanna try and fix my bug? i'll get out my virtual keyboard if you want to take a look :P
17:50:52 <olsner> elliott: no, I'll be watching deadliest catch and whatever other tv series I've missed this week's episodes of... and then have a bath and/or a sandwich
17:50:57 <crystal-cola> There is no reason to use logical or rational thought, the only justification for doing so is because you enjoy it
17:51:09 <elliott> olsner: you're a slave to the machine
17:51:23 <elliott> crystal-cola: <elliott> crystal-cola: but if the world doesn't conform to logic then the world conforms to logic, so it's reasonable to assume that the world conforms to logic
17:51:27 <elliott> crystal-cola: do you have a response to this argument?
17:51:29 <olsner> elliott: yep, mindless consumer and idler
17:51:35 <elliott> it proves that logic is incontrovertibly true, even if it is not
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17:51:54 <crystal-cola> elliott: Assuming logic is true, then since you used logic your argument is false
17:52:21 <elliott> crystal-cola: Logic is invalid. Everything is true and everything is false.
17:52:38 <crystal-cola> I have presented a definitive ``illogical'' refutation of your argument
17:53:07 <elliott> crystal-cola: here's my refutation of your argument
17:53:17 <crystal-cola> you're assuming that true = false, that's not provable
17:53:18 <elliott> that's even less logical and therefore more valid
17:53:25 <elliott> crystal-cola: no, but it doesn't have to be
17:53:43 <elliott> crystal-cola: <elliott> crystal-cola: Logic is invalid. Everything is true and everything is false.
17:53:43 <elliott> <elliott> So logic is valid.
17:53:49 <elliott> Logic is invalid SO LOGIC IS VALID.
17:53:54 <elliott> Or, logic is valid, and so logic is valid.
17:55:20 <olsner> nothing is valid and everything sucks
17:55:53 <elliott> crystal-cola: ayn rand based her philosophy on logic
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17:56:30 <elliott> crystal-cola: what did ayn rand say?
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17:57:02 <elliott> olsner: don't you like debugging short assembly :|
17:57:52 <olsner> elliott: whatever, you'll just put more bugs in afterwards
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17:58:14 <elliott> olsner: this is a damn subtle bug, not even impomatic could find it ;D
17:58:49 <olsner> heh, if it's so subtle, why do you need it fixed?
17:59:22 <elliott> olsner: erm, it's subtle in the sense that the code looks like it's absolutely flawless, and is tiny, yet it breaks badly
17:59:26 <elliott> you can't use the at instruction, for instance
18:00:01 <elliott> olsner: err, it's the at sign
18:00:09 <elliott> olsner: it's a problem with dictionary lookup
18:00:14 <elliott> it would break other words as the dictionary increases in size, almost certainly
18:00:18 <elliott> you'll see what i mean if you look
18:01:33 <olsner> not sure I want to look, it'll probably make me want to investigate
18:02:57 <elliott> olsner: http://sprunge.us/OYVO all the commented out bits are _not_ code i'm debugging, just relics of old interfaces/implementation that I couldn't bring myself to remove entirely (ok it's like four lines)
18:03:00 <elliott> this line, near the end, is the important one:
18:03:01 <elliott> ; If this is uncommented, then trying to execute @ (= 0) reports "?"
18:03:06 <elliott> and the function that is presumably broken is fword
18:03:17 <elliott> which as you can see, is pretty much perfect
18:03:24 <elliott> yes, it's the packed version of \
18:03:32 <elliott> olsner: the fact that the at sign packs to 0 is used to terminate the list
18:03:37 <elliott> so that if it doesn't find a word
18:03:43 <elliott> it can terminate the lookup
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18:03:47 <elliott> you'll see what i mean if you look at fword
18:06:59 <crystal-cola> elliott: she said that the universe defines order, so there is no such thing as an unordered universe
18:07:22 <elliott> ah. and that's interesting, because it's close enough to coherency, and sounds deep enough, that nobody notices it's meaningless
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18:08:43 <olsner> elliott: you have cmp dword [di], and then you jump to something that does cmp word [di] without changing di inbetween
18:08:57 <elliott> olsner: isn't that the point?
18:09:26 <elliott> olsner: hmm, I guess I should check dword
18:09:31 <elliott> because one-c is small enough
18:09:55 <crystal-cola> "The fake philosophical terminology of mathematical logic has misled philosophers into believing that mathematical logic deals with the truth in the philosophical sense. But this is a mistake. Mathematical logic deals not with the truth, but with the game of truth." - Rota
18:10:00 <olsner> the first 2 bytes are the least-significant though, so I doubt that all of it
18:12:52 <olsner> like, it should in fact be a shorter way to check if it's zero, if you know that the low bits are never zero if the high bits are nonzero
18:13:42 <elliott> olsner: i don't know that, though
18:13:48 <crystal-cola> I don't think it's meaningless. The point is that if you exist in some universe then "order" is whatever you perceive
18:13:48 <elliott> i know that nothing but at starts with at
18:14:01 <elliott> and i pack with the first character getting <<d the most
18:14:08 <elliott> so is that in fact a shorter way to check that?
18:15:00 <olsner> so something like f@@@@ would break unless you make it check the full dword?
18:18:07 <elliott> olsner: i think so, yes. but I can make it [at]f, rather than f[at]
18:18:13 <elliott> so it is okay if that breaks
18:18:24 <elliott> but i just want to know why at itself breaks when i add 0x1C before it
18:18:36 <elliott> i think it is because it thinks the dictionary ends at 1C
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18:25:04 <Vorpal> elliott, working on your forth again?
18:25:18 <Vorpal> elliott, how much is done by now?
18:25:31 <elliott> crystal-cola: i'm perfectly interesting, do you mean why am i not interesting to you?
18:25:38 <elliott> maybe because you're not saying interesting things to respond to
18:25:43 <elliott> Vorpal: everything apart from everything
18:25:53 <elliott> crystal-cola: nah, too busy working on my forth
18:26:21 <elliott> not when it's in five-hundred and ten bytes of boot sector
18:26:33 <elliott> bleh, qemu doesn't like xvkbd
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18:45:04 <olsner> elliott: what does \ mean when it's the last character of a line?
18:45:22 <elliott> olsner: can I blame Emacs for that possibility?
18:45:53 <elliott> NASM uses backslash (\) as the line continuation character; if a line ends with backslash, the next line is considered to be a part of the backslash-ended line.
18:45:54 <olsner> of course! I hate emacs
18:46:02 <elliott> olsner: well actually it'll be fizzie to blame
18:46:36 <olsner> to be fair, vim's highlighting doesn't handle comments ending in \ either
18:46:51 <elliott> olsner: well he wrote the one i'm using after stealing it from him :D
18:54:49 <Vorpal> elliott, you were wrong about not needing the log deleter program in uplink. 1) delete in the log directory works like version 1.0 log deleter, so they can be recovered with logundeleter 2) not all systems has a console, internic for example doesn't (and since it never traces it is a very good place to delete logs on)
18:56:00 <elliott> Vorpal: re logundeleter: trash every system you hack into
18:56:05 <elliott> delete sys directory, shutdown
18:56:24 <Vorpal> elliott, doesn't help as far as I can tell for computer handled passive trace
18:56:35 <Vorpal> elliott, besides that means you can never reuse the system for bouncing, no?
18:56:45 <elliott> Vorpal: True, but it helps you achieve the Scorched Earth conduct.
18:56:59 <Vorpal> elliott, does the game track that?
18:57:12 <elliott> (Destroy every single system that can be destroyed, kill or imprison every person that can be killed or imprisoned, then run Revelation to completion.)
18:57:19 <elliott> ((I am trying to get PH to do this.))
18:57:42 <elliott> This includes killing ARC people :)
18:58:10 <Vorpal> elliott, you can't *kill* anyone. You can get them into jail
18:58:34 <olsner> Vorpal: hey, people kill people every day
18:59:02 <elliott> Vorpal: steal the uplink personnel files
18:59:06 <elliott> you will get asked to send them
18:59:16 <elliott> tons of people will get imprisoned and killed
18:59:21 <Vorpal> elliott, right, okay. But no one else than those
18:59:24 <elliott> (your neuromancer or whatever rank becomes Sociopath)
19:01:02 <Vorpal> elliott, I think darwinia reuses the "run software" sound
19:01:50 <Vorpal> hm nope, where else have I heard that sound though
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19:21:32 <Phantom_Hoover> <elliott> (your neuromancer or whatever rank becomes Sociopath)
19:22:17 <Phantom_Hoover> Since I'd made my initial cash by taking on anti-corporate missions and it was quite high.
19:26:06 <Sgeo__> Instead of giving the agents to Beta or whoever, why not jail them yourself for no good reason?
19:26:16 <Sgeo__> Then maybe hand them over. Can Beta kill people who are in jail?
19:28:01 <Sgeo__> Don't you make much more by bank robberies?
19:28:09 <Sgeo__> And bank robberies don't kill anyone!
19:30:25 <Phantom_Hoover> They're obviously not intentionally such a cash cow, because it's actively gamebreaking.
19:32:06 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, any idea how the network dual monitor stuff in uplink works?
19:33:03 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, look in the options
19:33:21 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, click "edit multimonitor options"
19:35:14 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, I don't know what it does!
19:35:51 <Vorpal> okay one of them just crashed with SIGABRT
19:37:35 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, there are two new buttons on the "client" on the startup screen of it
19:37:39 <Phantom_Hoover> Not the argument itself, because it looks to be correct, but because this guy is quite clearly a free-market idiot.
19:37:40 <Vorpal> the other called status
19:37:48 <Vorpal> clicking status causes sigabrt
19:37:59 <Vorpal> due to a detected buffer overflow in an assert
19:38:08 <Vorpal> clicking comms brings up an empty world map
19:38:12 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: lol sixty five pence OH NO
19:38:19 <Vorpal> this seems pretty pointless
19:38:22 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: also known as approximately 0
19:39:13 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: twenty-three seconds in, I now know that the Royal family is the absolute cheapest thing our government spends money on
19:39:14 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, watch until he gets to the crown estates bit.
19:39:21 <elliott> "its not the money we spend on them that sucks, its the fact that theure born and never have to do ANYTHING difficult in their life and people around the world are starving to death.."
19:39:32 <elliott> Everyone must do manual labour.
19:40:32 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: No, I'm anti-idiotic-arguments.
19:40:33 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, whatever that multimonitor thingy is, it doesn't work
19:41:01 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Although the royal family does have /some/ use: look at America, who doesn't have a powerless highest-class to fawn over. Instead, people like Sarah Palin are famous.
19:41:21 <elliott> The Royal family at least serves as a safe sink for everyone's patriotic adoration.
19:41:57 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, that doesn't annoy me; the smarmy little man saying "they inherited this land SO OBVIOUSLY THEY HAVE A TRANSCENDENT RIGHT TO IT" does.
19:42:10 <Vorpal> elliott, that is quite an interesting point
19:42:30 <elliott> Vorpal: I copied it from someone else, but I forget who, and it was a long time ago. :)
19:42:43 <elliott> It's a pretty cynical land, mind you.
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19:43:31 <Vorpal> elliott, nasty answer here would be "ah, that explains it", but since I'm not nasty, I wouldn't even dream about saying it
19:43:42 <Vorpal> (yes this is intentionally not very logical)
19:43:48 <elliott> Everyone copies their opinions from everyone else.
19:44:55 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: This guy does not really sound like a free-market idiot. Free-market idiots don't like the Royal family.
19:45:57 <Vorpal> <elliott> Everyone copies their opinions from everyone else. <--- nasty answer: that was good, where did you copy that from?
19:46:11 <elliott> Vorpal: I made it up my very self >:)
19:46:45 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: This guy is actually pretty funny :P
19:47:28 <Phantom_Hoover> I'm sorry, but the "they own the land" bit annoyed me too much to continue.
19:48:09 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Shut up or we'll kick you out of U.R.E.S.W.N.I.
19:48:28 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Anyway, are you denying that the royals /do/ actually own the land?
19:49:17 <elliott> Hey wait it's /that/ Grey.
19:50:32 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, would it be possible to gain admin on ever internal service system where it is possible in uplink before they change the password of the first one?
19:51:01 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, just a small challenge to you ;)
20:00:45 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: WILL YOU TRY MY SCORCHED EARTH CONDUCT
20:01:39 <Phantom_Hoover> Anyway, I've decided I don't really mind the whole royal thing that much, though I reserve the right to be contemptuous towards anyone who actually cares about their antics.
20:02:37 <elliott> Oh, certainly; 'TIS FOR THE PLEBIANS
20:03:06 <elliott> The Royal family is utterly unnecessary, but getting rid of them is way more trouble than it's worth and they seem to be worthwhile.
20:05:17 <Phantom_Hoover> I also get the sense that without the disadvantageous deal on the crown estates, there would have been another, more permanent revolution.
20:07:19 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh, wait, you guys lost your monarchy so you just borrowed ours.
20:17:25 <crystal-cola> These individuals are just as emotionally driven and biased as the rest of us, but they're able to generate more and better reasons to explain why they're right—and so their minds become harder to change.
20:19:22 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: yeah this is the channel for english royalty ;DD
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20:20:34 <crystal-cola> Top epidemiologist Jim Carrey claims that vaccinations are causing autism
20:20:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
20:21:40 <Phantom_Hoover> 20:20:34: <crystal-cola> Top epidemiologist Jim Carrey claims that vaccinations are causing autism
20:22:43 <elliott> i'm not an epidemiologist, but i play one in interviews
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20:50:17 <fizzie> From a conference submission "conflicts of interest" form: "3) This PC member has been a collaborator within the past two years. 4) This PC member is or was an author's primary thesis advisor, no matter how long ago." -- like murder, there is no statute of limitations for thesis advisorship, it seems.
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21:17:58 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I can't believe people have the _right_ to deny people permission to parody their work.
21:18:09 -!- rapido has joined.
21:18:48 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: But if he /didn't/ ask for permission, he'd have a rather difficult time getting contracts, etc.
21:18:51 <Phantom_Hoover> Al is just a nice guy and as such always asks for permission.
21:22:35 <rapido> arthur whitney's code is conventional: who would ever guess?: http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4248#comment-65324
21:23:01 <elliott> Conventional if you totally reformat it :P
21:23:44 <elliott> I like K (though I'm not very good at it), I don't care about Q.
21:23:53 <elliott> I'm more comfortable with J, but K is cool too.
21:24:10 <rapido> elliott: comfortable? really? cool!
21:24:39 <elliott> But then maybe it never gets easier than this :P
21:25:31 <rapido> i wonder if k/q tables is ultimate data structure (there is no such thing)
21:25:50 <elliott> they're quite awkward to do trees in
21:25:58 <elliott> anything that can't do trees naturally can't be the ultimate data structure
21:26:08 <elliott> or, well, maybe i should just say graphs
21:26:13 <elliott> trees are just a subset of graphs after all :)
21:26:18 <elliott> graphs are the closest thing to the ultimate data structure imo
21:26:26 <elliott> after all, that's how they get represented, no matter what the hardware architecture
21:26:42 <elliott> rapido: acyclic? but then how do you represent x = cons y x?
21:27:20 <rapido> elliott: i don't like loopy stuff - i get dizzy
21:28:01 <elliott> isprime n = not . any ((==0) . (n `mod`)) . takeWhile ((<= n) . (^2)) $ primelist
21:28:02 <elliott> primelist = 2 : [x | x <- [3,5..], isprime x]
21:28:10 <elliott> [rapido suddenly gets so dizzy he passes out]
21:28:32 <rapido> primes are fine - they are unique!
21:28:41 <elliott> rapido: clearly you haven't looked at how the code actually works
21:28:58 <elliott> primelist is two, followed by all odd numbers n such that (isprime n)
21:29:10 <elliott> isprime n just checks that the number doesn't divide any of the primes less than n squared :)
21:29:14 <elliott> where does it get the primes?
21:29:18 <elliott> crystal-cola: it isn't, it's Haskell
21:29:22 <elliott> but it's the loopiest code i know of :)
21:29:55 <elliott> rapido: so hand-waving, primelist is just all numbers that isprime, and isprime n just checks nothing in a prefix of primelist divides n :)
21:30:06 <elliott> (and primelist itself is infinite)
21:31:16 <rapido> elliott: can you rewrite this into Y-combinator? it believe you can
21:31:26 <elliott> you can rewrite any recursion with the y combinator
21:31:32 <elliott> but primelist isn't a function, it's just a list
21:31:50 <crystal-cola> haskell doesn't need Y combinators, U is enough due to lazyness
21:31:53 * elliott thinks rapido should be a lot dizzier round about now
21:33:58 <rapido> i like fixed point combinators exactly because it doesn't require (lazy) cyclic definitions
21:34:33 <elliott> the Y combinator requires laziness btw btw
21:35:41 <elliott> wikipedia calls the strict version Z
21:35:42 <elliott> Z = λf. (λx. f (λy. x x y)) (λx. f (λy. x x y))
21:35:55 <monqy> nice lambdas there
21:35:55 <elliott> of course in languages with non-function types, this can only be used on a function, which sucks a bit
21:36:00 <rapido> elliott: not if you feed the (derivative) Y combinator a fixed number of iterations after which it should stop
21:36:05 <elliott> monqy: yeah, thank wikipedia :p
21:36:35 <rapido> it make the Y combinator a total function - ah yeah!
21:36:57 <elliott> yeah, by way of being totally ugly
21:37:12 <elliott> anyway, it's not enough, it's total but you can't list all the cases
21:37:26 <elliott> it must only take a thirty-two bit natural number of iterations
21:37:32 <elliott> that way, we can write all the possible cases out
21:37:45 <elliott> I'm starting the Order of Ultrafinitist Programmers, we code exclusively in lookup tables
21:38:05 <crystal-cola> The sad thing is most programmers are already ultrafinitists
21:38:19 <elliott> that sounds like an unlikely propositio
21:38:21 <rapido> lookup tables - that's finite enough for me
21:38:25 <crystal-cola> using languages that dont admit infinite lists and such
21:39:12 <monqy> don't most programmers use turing-complete languages
21:39:29 <Phantom_Hoover> Hmm. I removed /r/pics and /r/gaming from my front page and I now see the advantage of having them.
21:39:40 <rapido> i read that a total functional language can't emulate itself - is this true?
21:40:37 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: What advantage?
21:40:39 <rapido> or is it the other way around :)
21:40:54 <crystal-cola> rapido: it's the same as all the other diagonalization arguments
21:41:14 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, they buffer out stuff that is actually interesting with mindless dross *very* effectively.
21:41:28 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: And this is a good thing why? :P
21:42:04 <Phantom_Hoover> Because stuff that is actually interesting sucks in time way too well.
21:44:56 <zzo38> rapido: I don't know
21:45:39 <rapido> zzo38: i also don't know (what you're referring to?)
21:45:57 <zzo38> I don't know, if it is true, if a total function language can't emulate itself.
21:47:32 <rapido> zzo39: the guys and girls from LTU say it can't be: http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/3076
21:48:01 <crystal-cola> If e : N -> (N -> N) is an evaluator and for every function f : N -> N suppose there was a code c : N such that e c = f then let f n = e n n + 1 and x be the code for f then f x = e x x + 1 = f x + 1
21:48:40 <crystal-cola> this is standard diagonalization argument like Turin
21:49:00 <rapido> my gut feeling says you can - but you need BigNums
21:49:12 <rapido> BigNums that are finitie
21:50:04 <rapido> let's say you want to generate x numbers
21:50:26 <crystal-cola> I guess mathematical proof is not enough to convince you
21:50:28 <zzo38> BytePusher is one system that uses lookup tables for everything. (I think)
21:50:30 <copumpkin> if you're talking about "total functional languages" and whether they can emulate themselves in theory, you shouldn't even be considering anything but infinite numbers
21:50:47 <copumpkin> machine integers are irrelevant to the discussion, let's say
21:50:49 <rapido> and you define a function that takes x^x - it is still finite - but slow
21:52:04 <copumpkin> there's the question of what 0^0 is
21:52:17 <elliott> crystal-cola is arguing in the bullshit sense, though.
21:52:25 <crystal-cola> there is no evidece that numbers bigger than 1000000000000 can be exponentiated
21:52:33 <elliott> crystal-cola: you're using the unjustified assumption that LOGIC IS VALID
21:52:40 <elliott> therefore exponentiation is total
21:52:44 <rapido> i like total functions - call me sane
21:53:17 <crystal-cola> using logic one finds evidence that exponentiation is different
21:53:37 <rapido> i also like rewriting languages: 0^0 may be should be left not to be rewritten
21:53:52 <crystal-cola> There is no reason anything should be justified
21:55:55 <rapido> i would just leave x^x as is.
21:56:27 <Vorpal> anyone know a ray tracing engine that can handle diffraction? From what I can tell, povray can't.
21:56:30 <rapido> if x was replaced with 0
21:56:44 <zzo38> I think $0^0=1$ is make sense (in general).
21:56:48 <rapido> ray tracing? - ah yeah!
21:57:49 <rapido> Vorpal: what's diffraction? does it concern 'corner cases' ?
21:57:57 <Vorpal> what do you mean with that
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21:58:16 <Vorpal> also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffraction
21:58:34 <Vorpal> in fact, full interference simulation would be even better...
22:00:32 <rapido> Vorpal: can you implement a turing complete language on top of a interference simulation? - i guess you can
22:00:45 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, kinda-sorta possible, but it makes the process take much longer.
22:00:46 <Vorpal> err. that was not my intention in this case
22:01:05 <zzo38> But is it possible?
22:01:14 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, offline rendering here in any case, and I'm making one image, not a movie. So time is not an issue.
22:01:36 <fizzie> So you're ready to compute for three years for your image?
22:01:48 <zzo38> Do you need faster computer?
22:02:02 <Vorpal> fizzie, oh, is that the time scale we are talking about?
22:02:12 <Vorpal> fizzie, a week or two: yes
22:02:28 <rapido> ah, multi cores - they make programming lousy
22:02:35 <fizzie> Vorpal: Just a generic "time is not an issue" comment; but it's certainly possible to easily add a couple of order of magnitudes in ray-tracering.
22:02:48 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, remind me, do raytracers work from light sources?
22:02:58 <zzo38> rapido: How do they make programming lousy?
22:03:05 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, there is both backward and forward ray tracing
22:03:15 <elliott> rapido: not if you program functionally.
22:03:20 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, so: both are possible, sometimes a mixture of them I think
22:03:52 <fizzie> I don't think raytracers generally do diffraction; I mean, they're *ray*tracers. (And even particle-oriented things like POV-Ray's photon mode might not bother with that level of detail.)
22:04:12 <rapido> zzo38: because you should abstract away multi-cores - but they always bite back through share memory :)
22:04:47 <Phantom_Hoover> I think the big problem is that you can't keep rays as rays: they don't bend when they diffract, they... fuzz.
22:05:01 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, anyway, the kind of stuff I need here is the detail of the iridescence of a CD. Yes I realize it will be slow. No clue how slow.
22:05:15 <fizzie> Vorpal: Typically you just fake that sort of things.
22:05:26 <elliott> hmm, I wonder if I could do this with tup
22:05:36 <rapido> of course - if you program functionally you don't have share memory (if you don't consider the garbage collector)
22:05:39 <zzo38> rapido: Why should you abstract away multi-cores? Shouldn't you simply write the program for each core (some of which may run the same program)? Shared memory is needed for this to work good, isn't it?
22:05:40 <Vorpal> fizzie, but how would one compute how exactly the pattern would look?
22:05:56 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, okay, I'm willing to give up on ray tracing. Lets do wave propagation or something
22:06:15 <fizzie> Vorpal: LuxRender's "TODO/papers for inspiration" page points to http://www.dgp.toronto.edu/people/stam/reality/Research/pdf/diff.pdf -- a siggraph paper about anisotropic surface reflections. But it's not something that's implemented.
22:06:24 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, yes quite. That was just an example.
22:07:27 <Vorpal> fizzie, hrrm, that "Alias | wavefront" sounds familiar... Isn't it a commercial render?
22:08:26 <rapido> ellliot: 'tup'? very intriguing - but what is it?
22:08:48 <fizzie> Vorpal: It's a commercial company. But they did that Maya 3D modelling thing.
22:09:00 <fizzie> The paper uses a CD as an example.
22:09:04 <elliott> rapido: Oh, it's just a build system thing. I'm trying to automate boring things.
22:09:13 <Vorpal> fizzie, well yes, it is an obvious example
22:09:59 <rapido> elliott: boring stuff? hey - i'm into CMMi level 3 stuff - talk about boring
22:10:03 <fizzie> Vorpal: "We have implemented our reflection models as various shaders in our MAYA animation system" -- right.
22:10:03 <Vorpal> fizzie, if this can handle edge diffraction I'm in heaven
22:10:22 <elliott> rapido: well, tup is http://gittup.org/tup/
22:10:58 <rapido> DAGs! I love them! - did i mention that earlier?
22:11:15 <elliott> rapido: but tup's are better because the arrows go upwards.
22:11:45 <fizzie> Vorpal: Also the poor man's choice, http://matrep.parastudios.de/index.php?action=view&material=448-cd&fc=14 :p
22:12:08 <Vorpal> fizzie, that is a faked one
22:12:11 <rapido> upwards? is it purely functional?
22:12:33 <elliott> rapido: It's a build system, the WHOLE POINT is sideeffects :P
22:12:34 <fizzie> Well, in a sense they all are faked ones.
22:12:39 <Vorpal> fizzie, and since I'm not doing a CD, it isn't very useful. I too used a CD as an example :P
22:13:13 <Vorpal> fizzie, in fact I'm interested in edge diffraction, as can be seen around the shadow of a leaf or such.
22:13:38 <rapido> elliott: ah ha! i think build systems should generate immutable artifacts! - SO THERE!
22:13:54 <Vorpal> fizzie, meaning that the paper you linked doesn't really help
22:14:04 <Vorpal> not edge diffraction as far as I can tell
22:14:13 <fizzie> You might be asking for a bit too much there.
22:14:26 <elliott> rapido: but artifacts belong in a museum
22:14:29 <rapido> 'I apologize in advance if someone besmirches your honor and you are unable to properly defend yourself as a result.' <- VERY AMUSING
22:14:34 <elliott> ooh, museum would be a good immutable data storage name
22:15:08 <rapido> elliott: oh, oh - can i use your invention 'museum'? it's great
22:15:19 <Vorpal> fizzie, I'm not asking for it to be fast. I'm asking for it to be possible to batch render over a couple of weeks on a modern computer to a reasonable quality, that is all.
22:15:25 <elliott> the client library will be called indiana
22:15:32 <elliott> now where do the nazis come in
22:15:52 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, no. that wouldn't be edge diffraction mostly
22:16:37 <fizzie> Vorpal: You could start browsing from http://arxiv.org/abs/1101.5490 and the Freniere1999/Tsingos2000 references; but I think it's quite unlikely you find these things implemented anywhere.
22:16:44 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, what are you possibly doing that involves edge diffraction?
22:17:11 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, rendering an image!
22:17:36 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, why are you asking?
22:18:07 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, because then special-case cheating can be considered.
22:18:40 <fizzie> Yes, I think "just fake it" is quite likely to be the most practical answer for your question.
22:19:09 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, that of a tree with a light from behind is what I'm considering. Giving the right setup you should be able to see edge diffraction around the leaves.
22:20:04 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, but yeah, if it is this hard I'll probably not invest time into it
22:20:07 <fizzie> Vorpal: Anyway, the arxiv paper has a GPU real-time CD example; and the famous double-slit experiment rendered, too.
22:20:41 <fizzie> (I'm quite sure they don't bother sharing any code, though.)
22:22:38 <zzo38> Can you do it if they do not share the code too?
22:23:11 <fizzie> Theoretically speaking articles are supposed to be detailed enough for anyone to reproduce their results.
22:23:25 <fizzie> Quite often there's details missing, though.
22:23:29 <rapido> i want executable esoteric languages - above narrative esoteric languages - although i like story telling above reality.....
22:23:40 <zzo38> Then the article should be a WEB or CWEB program to ensure that no details are left out.
22:24:18 <zzo38> And then you can download the source file and compile it, and reproduce their results for sure!!
22:24:24 <fizzie> Even worse if it's just a four-page conference paper; those things take so many shortcuts.
22:24:55 <ais523> elliott: ouch, the darcs people are apparently implementing a rebase
22:25:07 <zzo38> ais523: What does that mean?
22:25:17 <ais523> in order to help it fix conflicts that itcan't figure out automatically, but still
22:25:25 <ais523> zzo38: rebase is a feature of git that lets you edit history to make it neater
22:25:32 <ais523> and thus, less accurate to what actually happened
22:25:34 <elliott> ais523: we must team up with our enemies in the Camp team to stop this atrocity at once
22:25:37 <ais523> and it causes all sorts of issues
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22:26:39 <rapido> you can edit history without changing the past
22:27:19 <rapido> you just create an alternative history
22:27:39 <rapido> and leave the past (1 example of history) as is
22:27:45 <ais523> that's not what git does, though
22:27:50 <ais523> and then it gets confused because the histories don't match
22:29:06 <rapido> is git confluently persistent? - if not - it should be fixed to be that way
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22:29:51 <zzo38> I don't know, I have set up a git repository and I do not use most of its features, so maybe I don't care either.
22:30:03 <Vorpal> fizzie, hm I wonder if http://arxiv.org/abs/1101.5490 has been implemented anywhere? Considering the date, of publishing, probably not
22:30:18 <Vorpal> well, outside their system
22:31:55 <rapido> zzo38: has git bitten you in a way that you didn't expect?
22:33:59 <rapido> zzo38: are you alone? or are you part of a big team?
22:34:20 <zzo38> rapido: I have only worked on it alone.
22:35:02 <Vorpal> most version control systems work flawlessly when only a single person is using it
22:36:57 <zzo38> It is however, design so that also other people can make fork, and make other projects too, including to download and copy it. So it is possible for other people to do it even though it is only single I work on it, but as far as I know, nobody does, but that's OK. If other people have suggestion they can write elsewhere instead.
22:37:04 <olsner> Vorpal: no, only the flawless ones
22:37:13 <rapido> zzo38: i'm alone but working with a lot of people: then i try to explain versioning / baselining- get stale looks ....and the scarce reply is: very interesting stuff!
22:40:06 <rapido> checking out :) it's 00.30 in the netherlands
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22:40:30 <olsner> it should be 00.39 in the netherlands
22:41:47 * Phantom_Hoover reads Reddit some more, concludes that he is somehow socially competent.
22:42:44 <Phantom_Hoover> In the way that people acknowledge my existence on a regular basis, although admittedly there's a titanic confirmation bias acting against Reddit.
22:43:21 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: being mentioned in the context of being "that faggot" doesn't count as acknowledgement, Phantom_Hoover
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22:59:17 <pikhq> It would seem that Tup could use a way to specify an alternate means of seeing if a file has changed...
22:59:29 <elliott> pikhq: HAVE YOU BEEN READING THE LISTS
22:59:55 <pikhq> elliott: Yes, but I had actually been thinking that earlier today.
22:59:59 <elliott> pikhq: What I'm trying to do is bootstrap Kitten using tup.
23:00:15 <elliott> pikhq: Which means that going from only my handful of tup files and maybe some patches, it will download and build every stage of Kitten.
23:00:46 <pikhq> It'd be very nice to be able to, say, specify that a file is changed if the output from a program has changed.
23:01:16 <pikhq> This would, incidentally, allow you to do optional checksumming.
23:01:18 <elliott> pikhq: I'm considering just doing : foo.stamp |> wget http://blah/ -O [percent]o |> foo/blah.
23:01:22 <elliott> pikhq: That'd be ugly, but /shrug
23:01:26 <elliott> It's probably what I'd do with make.
23:01:27 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Yes, that is the meme.
23:01:44 <pikhq> elliott: Ugly, but it functions without any changes in Tup.
23:02:03 <elliott> pikhq: Yeah, and the other way would imply like five curl calls every "tup upd"...
23:02:34 <pikhq> elliott: Yeah, but five curl calls to just check the mtime of the remote file...
23:02:52 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: The reason for this meme is that Americans place much more importance on the aesthetics of teeth than Britons.
23:03:42 <pikhq> *In fact*, the average Englishman has much healthier teeth than the average American. Just not as straight and sparkling.
23:04:49 <pikhq> elliott: Those remote calls won't take much time, especially with parallelism.
23:05:00 <elliott> pikhq: But but tup is so fast otherwise.
23:05:18 <pikhq> Though a more obvious problem with calling out to an external program to check for any changes is that it throws off the autoupdate feature.
23:05:57 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, I can vouch that that is very much not the case in other parts of the UK.
23:06:16 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: How common are dental braces in the UK?
23:07:35 <Phantom_Hoover> As in, in a given group of people I know, some of them will probably have braces or retainers.
23:07:57 <pikhq> Is it a procedure that is going to be done on anyone without impeccable teeth that can afford it?
23:08:22 <olsner> they have braces? maybe you should tell them to stop coding C/C++/Java
23:08:47 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, it was recommended for me, but I do have a gap between my upper front teeth that my tongue can fit into.
23:09:17 <elliott> I have a totally fucked up tooth.
23:14:27 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, consider, though, that a friend of my mother's who is a primary school teacher in NI said that literally all of her class had rotten teeth.
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23:16:46 <Phantom_Hoover> (Yes, she is one of those idiot teachers who result in almost all children being dead to education before they pass 8. No, I am not allowed to do anything about this.)
23:18:57 <Vorpal> <Phantom_Hoover> Well, in Scotland at least. <-- YOU MEANT WALES
23:19:49 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: I suggest you murder her.
23:20:17 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, she's retired now on medical grounds the details of which I am unaware.
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23:20:47 <Phantom_Hoover> This surprised me until I realised that I had severely underestimated her age due to how mindmeltingly shallow she is.
23:23:58 <elliott> WE REQUIRE DETAILS ON TEACHING TERRIBLENESS
23:25:01 <Phantom_Hoover> I don't know the details, or have repressed them so I can stay slightly afloat in the ocean of cynicism.
23:25:18 <elliott> HOW DID YOU KNOW SHE WAS A TERRIBLE FEATURE
23:29:01 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, she emanates this aura of "it is CRITICALLY IMPORTANT that children be FORCED TO LEARN TO READ by the time they are FIVE otherwise WHAT IS THE POINT OF THIS ANYWAY"
23:29:28 <elliott> there are children who enter school without being able to read? :)
23:29:45 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes, although it is inconceivable to such intellects as ours.
23:30:00 <pikhq> elliott: There are students who enter high school functionally illiterate.
23:30:02 <elliott> well, they can go to the retard school.
23:31:25 <elliott> just keep having babies and cull the ones who don't demonstrate above-average intelligence at the age of five, duh
23:32:05 <pikhq> It's pretty poorly taught pretty much everywhere that has non-trivial orthography->phoneme mapping.
23:33:13 <elliott> (dogs are about as smart as five year olds)
23:33:22 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Hard to do, courtesy of the wide variety of phonemic variation in English.
23:34:44 <Phantom_Hoover> The number of actual *collisions* in pronunciation is relatively low between accents.
23:35:10 <pikhq> It's just that each accent recognises a different set of phonemes...
23:35:55 <pikhq> Heck, it'd be somewhat annoying just accounting for rhotic vs. nonrhotic accents.
23:36:25 <elliott> I just imagined a Britain where Geordie is enforced by law.
23:36:27 <Phantom_Hoover> Even then. Collisions aren't all that common, and you can solve them generally by splitting them and merging it in accents that do so.
23:36:32 <elliott> IMAGINE THE QUEEN SPEAKING GEORDIE PH
23:36:43 -!- elliott has left ("Leaving").
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23:37:02 <Phantom_Hoover> NO BECAUSE I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT GEORDIE SOUNDS LIKE
23:37:59 <Sgeo__> Windows Media Player is my new .wav player
23:38:04 <Sgeo__> Because VLC currently sucks
23:38:43 <Sgeo__> (Well, not "sucks", but has one particular currently unbearable bug. Fixed in 1.2. 1.2 is not available to download as far as I can tell)
23:42:17 <elliott> pikhq: Is it just me, or is there no way to specify PATH in tup?
23:45:11 <pikhq> elliott: Well, it is passing the build commands to /bin/sh...
23:45:21 <elliott> pikhq: Well yes but I mean globally.
23:45:41 <pikhq> Doesn't seem to be any way of specifying environment variables globally in tup.
23:45:54 <elliott> I may have to resort to PURE SHELL SCRIPTS
23:49:33 <zzo38> All of my plans in D&D game are those that the dungeon master fails to understand but it works anyways
23:49:41 <zzo38> (Sometimes even I fail to understand, too)
23:50:19 <Phantom_Hoover> So anyway I was looking in my fridge today and I found a shot of flu vaccine lying behind the vinaigrette.
23:51:02 <zzo38> Did you put that in the fridge?