00:01:52 -!- Germille has joined. 00:02:38 -!- Germille has left. 00:08:04 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 00:18:40 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:25:17 -!- pikhq has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 00:31:37 -!- huntercool has joined. 00:31:38 -!- jackylu has joined. 00:31:57 -!- huntercool has left. 00:38:57 -!- jackylu has left. 00:41:49 WHY WHY WHY does any computer charger I own invariably get such that it's flaky? 00:47:03 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:05:34 -!- crystal-cola has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:13:07 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:30:33 -!- Fuco has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:37:29 -!- augur has joined. 01:38:19 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:49:29 -!- augur has joined. 02:16:42 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:19:51 -!- augur has joined. 02:21:13 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:33:34 -!- augur has joined. 02:34:07 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:58:35 -!- pikhq has joined. 03:02:19 * pikhq is still stunned at how very many build systems don't automagically handle dependencies. 03:10:35 Even the autotools way of handling it is better than some of the shit out there. 03:13:44 And why the pfargtle are there so many Makefile generators? 03:14:01 Topological sort is *not that hard* people! 03:17:10 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:39:35 pikhq: define: automagically 03:41:21 coppro: Without having to actually go to any effort to declare dependencies. 03:41:36 pikhq: Does -MM and the like count? 03:41:47 That's effort. 03:42:13 I should be able to say "The following C files are in the following program. Make it fucking happen." 03:42:46 ok 03:42:48 then I agree with you 03:45:23 And Makefile generators are such a freaking stupid and pointless idea. 03:46:15 "Well, let's make this non-standard tool, which people will have to learn how to use, and install seperately... But let's make it use Make, because they're familiar with how to use Make, and its limitations!" 03:46:22 Worst of both worlds. 03:49:02 -!- pgimeno has joined. 03:49:14 * pikhq is especially confused by Automake. 03:49:50 Is there any particular reason they had to generate a Makefile, even then? 03:51:15 Gregor: ? 03:52:54 make understand dependencies and (in modern times) parallelism. By using Makefiles, you get incremental rebuilds and parallel builds nearly free. 03:54:15 Gregor: Didn't understand parallel builds back then. 03:54:53 Gregor: And Automake's documentation continues to advocate recursive make, which means it doesn't understand dependencies. 03:55:38 Hence "(in modern times)", and recursive make can be made to understand dependencies so long as the separate processes are sufficiently distinct. 03:55:59 Or, more precisely, it can be made to correctly not understand dependencies. 03:56:28 Yes, but it so rarely is made to do so. 03:57:01 And? You think some newfangled custom creation cobbled together from scripts and distributed as part of the source would do better? 03:57:34 I'm simply saying that Automake could have been a decent build system from the start, rather than a newfangled custom creation cobbled together from scripts. 03:57:43 No, it couldn't have. 03:57:49 And I asked why. 03:58:05 Auto* set out to be something that could be run on any vaguely-Unixy system. 03:58:22 Its requirements are sh, make and a not-entirely-braindead suite of core utilities. 03:58:39 And GNU m4. 03:58:43 No. 03:58:49 That's its DEVELOPER dependency. 03:58:54 USERS do not need it. 03:58:57 Okay, fair enough. 03:59:07 No, not "fair enough", that's exactly what makes autotools autotools. 03:59:32 Mind you, that's mostly irrelevant nowadays, but in the context of its original design it makes sense. 04:00:43 Does it? Keep in mind that someone using it is almost certainly going to be building a C program, meaning that they also have a not-entirely-braindead C compiler. 04:01:19 Meaning that having a C program instead of a cobbled-together bunch of scripts would not be unreasonable. 04:08:51 -!- augur has joined. 04:18:52 http://imgur.com/gallery/FRQtX 04:20:28 -!- azaq23 has joined. 04:20:58 -!- vorik111 has joined. 04:21:39 quintopia: Finland: the only place with winters Russia is afraid of. 04:21:39 :P 04:22:56 isnt kliment a finnish name tho? was the russian commander a fin? 04:24:14 It's apparently a Slavicisation of Latin "CLEMENT". 04:25:54 *Jeeze*. 04:26:34 Kliment Voroshilov was apparently a very notable Russian figure. One of the kinds of tanks used in that war was *named after him*. 04:26:44 He was ordering around Kliment Voroshilov tanks. 04:34:59 http://imgur.com/gallery/lEeOM look at first comment 04:36:57 Win. 04:37:37 -!- tim000 has joined. 04:38:06 http://imgur.com/gallery/aBglP "who printed the man page for gcc?" 04:39:25 Looks more like the man page for mplayer. 04:40:56 -!- asiekierka has joined. 04:42:30 -!- azaq231 has joined. 04:44:26 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:58:24 -!- kwertii has joined. 05:13:26 -!- pgimeno has left ("This is the default part message"). 05:29:45 Fucking Colorado. 05:29:57 It's snowing rather *well*. 05:34:47 coldorado 05:37:27 You know it's bad when a Norwegian is mocking you. 05:37:27 :P 05:37:53 well it was snowing here only a couple weeks ago 05:38:08 or so 05:38:37 Still a bit weird having it snowing this late in April. 05:40:20 Mind you, I shouldn't be so weirded out. I've had blizzards for my birthday (~a month ago)... 06:21:02 -!- lament has joined. 06:24:03 -!- FireFly has joined. 06:33:30 -!- Tritonio has joined. 06:41:27 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:44:34 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:47:30 -!- copumpkin has joined. 06:51:58 -!- monqy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:53:51 -!- monqy has joined. 07:05:02 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:07:14 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 07:13:13 What the what? "Quaint" and "cunt" are cognates. 07:13:50 Sorry, no, that's a bullshit claim that I should have read more about before posting. 07:25:44 -!- lament has joined. 07:25:48 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 07:26:17 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:33:40 -!- Tritonio_Droid has joined. 07:35:06 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:53:10 -!- Tritonio_Droid has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:55:26 pikhq: you shouldn't have corrected yourself 08:03:05 -!- pikhq has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 08:08:58 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:09:25 -!- copumpkin has joined. 08:10:08 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:16:57 -!- kwertii has quit (Quit: bye). 08:22:43 -!- aloril has joined. 08:25:15 http://www.simplimg.com/product_images/8ABpR.jpg 08:27:02 -!- azaq231 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 08:39:41 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:39:49 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 08:44:24 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:57:42 -!- pingveno1 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:58:26 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:58:27 -!- pingveno has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:58:48 -!- azaq23 has joined. 09:13:09 -!- Fuco has joined. 09:13:39 -!- myndzi has joined. 09:15:43 -!- pingveno has joined. 09:16:42 -!- pingveno1 has joined. 09:34:36 Is this a good guideline for knowing when to comment?: If you have to think about the code you're about to write, there should be a comment 10:12:13 no, if you have to think, you should rewrite it so it would be obvious 10:12:33 comments are mostly useless and indicate you don't know what you're doing:) 10:12:51 -!- FireFly has joined. 10:18:22 you should only comment when the language does something a person less experienced would not notice 10:22:35 and there's a minimum level of experience you can expect that person to have. 10:22:55 depends on your corporate policy also. 10:23:35 commenting always referred to documentation for a particular managed change to the code. 10:23:43 specification documents 10:24:20 "managed change" is the key oxymoron here :) 10:32:08 I wanted to comment to write out a piece of math that I needed to write out before fully understanding what I was doing 10:33:15 And now I'm screaming at C# for not having a nice comprehendible way of getting the lengths of single dimensions in a multidimensional array 10:36:27 What's wrong with foo.GetLength(0) .. foo.GetLength(n-1), where n is the number of dimensions? 10:36:50 Me not checking that GetLength() takes a dimension 10:36:50 ty 10:39:32 This has to be done in 4.5 hours :( 10:43:25 Wow. What I'm doing here crappily would be far better modelled in a prototype OOP system 10:43:32 comments don't need to stay. if you need a comment to organize your thoughts, do it. then erase the evidence of any noobery. 10:43:36 ..maybe 10:44:13 * Sgeo excises the bit that was manipulating a multidimensional array 10:48:09 -!- vorik111 has changed nick to vorik111|zzz. 11:00:41 -!- Tritonio has joined. 11:02:01 -!- Tritonio_Droid has joined. 11:05:43 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:07:48 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:14:30 going to be offline for a while. House shaking due to roof being replaced. This doesn't bode well for the HDDs. Besides it is time to clean the computer case. 11:15:05 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 11:38:18 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 11:50:32 -!- Gregor has quit (Excess Flood). 11:50:39 -!- Gregor has joined. 11:50:42 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:51:05 -!- Gregor has changed nick to Guest72394. 11:55:01 -!- azaq23 has joined. 11:55:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:58:56 -!- siracusa has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:00:28 -!- siracusa has joined. 12:01:55 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 12:06:37 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:14:15 -!- Sgeo has joined. 12:14:18 -!- crystal-cola has joined. 12:32:22 -!- Guest72394 has changed nick to Gregor. 12:39:08 ROOF being replaced? 12:39:10 wtf lol 12:49:22 -!- elliott has joined. 12:56:03 -!- augur has joined. 13:13:00 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:23:36 -!- augur has joined. 13:40:55 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 13:57:03 -!- Kordalien has joined. 13:58:43 -!- Kordalien has quit (Client Quit). 14:06:46 -!- Vorpal has joined. 14:19:34 -!- newpuppyuser2 has joined. 14:20:48 -!- newpuppyuser2 has left. 14:34:28 NOTES 14:34:28 The behavior of fputws() depends on the LC_CTYPE category of the current locale. 14:34:28 In the absence of additional information passed to the fopen(3) call, it is reasonable to expect that fputws() will actually write the multibyte string corresponding to the wide-character string ws. 14:34:35 I love that last sentence. 14:37:42 -!- `Fuco` has joined. 14:38:55 lol 14:40:42 -!- Fuco has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:46:42 -!- Germille has joined. 14:47:07 hai guys 14:47:25 you're the pro hacker on steroids that do crazy programming languages? 14:53:21 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 14:56:21 -!- Tritonio_Droid has quit (Quit: Bye). 14:57:07 Germille, at least one of those things are true. 14:57:07 Phantom_Hoover: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 14:57:59 -!- Tritonio has joined. 14:58:30 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:07:05 Germille: no we just do malbolge 15:22:19 -!- copumpkin has joined. 15:22:47 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:27:12 Hi ais523. 15:27:15 Also hi Germille. 15:27:28 hi elliott 15:27:45 elliott: -> #scapegoat 15:28:05 hacker on steroid? 15:37:48 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:38:15 -!- lament has joined. 15:40:19 I wish dosbox had a curses mode. 15:47:25 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:56:51 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:05:05 -!- Germille has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:05:28 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:06:06 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:06:06 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 16:06:06 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:09:37 -!- augur has joined. 16:16:46 -!- Mannerisky has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:18:21 -!- elliott has joined. 16:19:21 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 16:28:57 hmm, I fear patent lawyers are going to birthday-paradox themselves at this rate 16:29:06 patents are abbreviated to the last three digits of their numbers in legal filings 16:29:18 so if you have more than about 30 patents mentioned in one filing, there's quite a large chance of a collision 16:30:23 you could always disambiguate, presumably 16:31:15 also, is "evinces" a real word? 16:31:22 "This inequitable conduct evinces Microsoft’s unclean hands and taints Microsoft’s entire portfolio." 16:31:30 surely they meant "evidences"? or is this something I'm missing 16:31:32 ? 16:32:44 evinces3rd person singular present of e·vince (Verb) 16:32:44 1. Reveal the presence of (a quality or feeling). 16:32:44 2. Be evidence of; indicate: "man's inhumanity to man as evinced in the use of torture". More » 16:32:46 no, what am i saying 16:32:51 ais523: to evince something is to read it with Evince 16:32:58 elliott: I like your definitoin better 16:32:59 so, they took a look at Microsoft's unclean hands, in PDF form 16:34:06 this is an actual Microsoft sues Linux (specifically Android, which is based on the Linux kernel but not most of the other stuff "Linux" implies) case, which is interesting that it's happened 16:35:27 Microsoft really don't seem to give a shit about Linux 16:35:43 they've made, like, a handful of adverts targeting it altogether, I can only think of one 16:35:45 they only get upset at it where it competes with them, I think 16:35:54 and on the desktop, it doesn't meaningfully 16:36:02 they've attacked it quite heavily on the server, but mostly lost that battle 16:36:07 and are starting to attack it in the portables space, now 16:36:13 the one I'm thinking of was an old sever ad, yup 16:37:35 Microsoft really don't seem to give a shit about Linux ← hmm, I thought the big thing about the Halloween documents was that it demonstrated that they do, just not publicly. 16:38:04 crystal-cola: what anti-gay attitude? 16:38:12 Phantom_Hoover: Well, OK, but those are pretty oooold. 16:38:16 to me, the Halloween documents demonstrated that they were aware it existed (not surprising), and were considering how much of a threat it was to their business model (also not surprising) 16:38:27 copumpkin: wat? 16:38:38 I don't think they demonstrated that Linux was a serious threat to them then (it wasn't), but that they were keeping an eye on it just in case 16:38:57 ais523: ISTR some kind of "crush" verbiage, but crushing things is kind of Microsoft's default stance. 16:39:24 indeed 16:50:40 it sucks that you can find teh galois group of a polynomial but still not know how to solve it 16:50:52 its lik ewow whats the point then? 16:51:42 id unnol ol 16:51:44 non-constructive 16:52:01 yeah we should all be bob the builder instead 16:52:07 no 16:52:22 yes 16:52:31 BOB DTHE BILDER 16:52:42 boabe thebsueld 16:52:51 cha d nfex it 16:52:56 ? yes he can 16:53:15 greatest poem. 16:53:23 hey I liked my poem yersteday 16:53:30 I don't think anyone got it though 16:53:40 we're all stupid here. 16:53:44 well it's 16:53:52 sincte left the bracketing out to make it remind of "a rose is a rose is a rose" 16:54:12 but the actual intended bracketing was not ((p or not p) or (not (p or not p))) 16:55:15 this is interesting 16:55:35 is it 16:55:46 Problems of solvability and non-solvability of algebraic, transcendental and differential equa- 16:55:49 tions in explicit form, including Liouville theory, classical and differential Galois theory, and Picard- 16:55:52 Vessiot theory, will be addressed from the geometry and analysis point of view. The course will be 16:56:03 although it'll probably be a let down 16:57:06 :( 16:57:10 he didn't post his lecture notes 17:00:20 "So we've defined something very close to a uniform probability distribution on the integers, and all it took was the axiom of choice" 17:00:24 that's all?? lol 17:06:02 elliott: http://mathoverflow.net/questions/63127/is-this-joke-unfunny-closed 17:06:25 what is this 17:08:39 crystal-cola: ? 17:08:44 yes 17:09:11 that's not an answer 17:09:17 he didn't post his lecture notes 17:09:24 i meant the mathoverflow links 17:09:27 link 17:09:27 -!- `Fuco` has changed nick to Fuco. 17:09:31 DAE think that the Kronecker Delta would be an awesome name for a spaceship 17:09:36 aside from being a very important term in linear algebra, haha. 17:09:43 more top quality discussion from reddit 17:10:10 ok you're not answering my question 17:10:13 fine 17:10:19 I'm no super-calculator or anything like that... But I love algebra. Basically math in everyday life. 17:10:22 The other day I worked out how long it would take to try each combination of sauce (15 Sauces, 2 sauces in a combination) on chicken strips in the cafeteria. When I mentioned this to one of my friends on a weekend trip, he basically laughed his ass off. Imagine my surprise... Why do my peers not see the sense in that?? 17:11:06 crystal-cola: are you going to...? 17:11:13 hmm? 17:11:26 crystal-cola: ? 17:11:27 yes 17:11:27 that's not an answer 17:11:27 he didn't post his lecture notes 17:11:27 i meant the mathoverflow links 17:11:27 link 17:11:30 goint where 17:11:30 what is this 17:11:36 crystal-cola: what? 17:11:44 sorry what do you wnat? 17:11:55 i was asking "what is this" to the mathoverflow link 17:11:58 oh 17:12:05 its just funny 17:12:19 he wants to differentatie with respect to pi 17:12:27 ok 17:12:55 know any good tips for getting to sleep when you're nto that tired?O 17:14:10 no, i'm terrible at falling asleep. melatonin seems to help quite a bit, though. 17:15:46 you find it easier to sleep in the sun? 17:16:52 ais523: what 17:17:00 What is melatonin 17:17:03 isn't that the usual source of melatonin? 17:17:08 haha 17:17:08 ais523: no, darkness is 17:17:17 crystal-cola: Melatonin (pronounced /ˌmɛləˈtoʊnɪn/ ( listen)), also known chemically as N-acetyl-5-methoxytryptamine,[1] is a naturally occurring compound found in animals, plants, and microbes.[2][3] In animals, circulating levels of the hormone melatonin vary in a daily cycle, thereby allowing the entrainment of the circadian rhythms of several biological functions.[4] 17:17:17 Many biological effects of melatonin are produced through activation of melatonin receptors,[5] while others are due to its role as a pervasive and powerful antioxidant,[6] with a particular role in the protection of nuclear and mitochondrial DNA.[7] 17:17:18 In mammals, melatonin is secreted into the blood by the pineal gland in the brain. Known as the "hormone of darkness", it is secreted in darkness in both day-active (diurnal) and night-active (nocturnal) animals.[8] 17:17:25 tl;dr it regulates your circadian rhythm 17:17:30 hmm, I've got it backwards, tehn 17:17:31 *then 17:17:37 its use as a supplement is pretty common in the US 17:17:47 (where it's classified as a "dietary supplement") 17:18:17 anyway, I find the best way to get to sleep at a particular time is to get into a rhythm; and also, to have to wake up early the next day 17:18:46 ais523: I sleep easiest when I have nothing to do the next day, and find it absolutely impossible to get into any kind of rhythm 17:18:49 (the latter situation is because humans are quite capable of falling asleep and waking up at will, but it isn't under conscious control, so you need to get your subconscious to do it somehow) 17:19:00 (sometimes I flat-out cannot sleep at all because of having to get up early the next day) 17:19:08 soooo 17:19:09 hmm, that's the other way round from me, then 17:19:11 what should Ido? 17:19:15 do you wake up 5 minutes before the time you set your alarm to, too? 17:19:17 just wish melatonin comes 17:19:28 crystal-cola: erm, I mean I take it as a supplement 17:19:31 crystal-cola: you could try the placebo effect 17:19:39 if you believe you can fall asleep easily, you will 17:19:42 hehe 17:19:44 i use the kiddie liquid bottle because i can't swallow pills :) 17:19:46 I am gonna listen to a story 17:19:48 so just practice lying until you fool yourself 17:19:52 ais523: that only works for people who are good at self-delusion :) 17:20:03 I believe that I am good at self delusion 17:20:05 ais523: actually i find the idea of convincing myself i can fall asleep easily more horrifying than the gain of being able to do so 17:20:15 elliott: I got better at swallowing pills, when I had to for three weeks 17:20:31 do you wake up 5 minutes before the time you set your alarm to, too? 17:20:33 in the end, I decided that the best method was to swallow some water first, then physically force the pill down my own throat, using my fingers 17:20:34 I used to 17:20:38 now alarms don't wake me at all 17:20:42 and nor can anything else 17:20:47 which is quite different from the usual wash-the-pill-down method 17:20:58 in the end, I decided that the best method was to swallow some water first, then physically force the p... down my own throat, ... 17:21:09 Gregor: it was funnier the first time 17:21:18 -!- Tritonio has joined. 17:21:20 Gregor: ...which is quite different from the usual wash-the-pill-down method 17:21:23 damn 17:21:25 [asterisk]p... 17:21:37 ok, now on to less stupid things 17:21:46 just kidding, everything we talk about is stupid 17:21:47 ehey 17:21:48 im not stupid 17:21:50 !!!! 17:21:53 uh 17:21:58 yep i totally said you were stupid 17:22:00 that is what i said 17:22:05 listen 17:22:16 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOS20plm7UM 17:22:16 i am listening 17:22:47 they totally ruined that whale song with their remix wtf 17:22:51 guitar totally doesn't go with whale. 17:23:01 or wait was that minecraft... 17:23:06 MY JOKE IS RUINED 17:23:40 what :D 17:27:56 what 17:28:33 minecarft... fuckin sick of that game 17:28:41 "acheivements" 17:29:06 achievements are perfectly ignorable. 17:32:44 APNIC: 3x1k+2x256+/32+/48 to Australia, 4x1k to China, 3x1k to India, 8x1k+2x/32 to Japan, 1k to Malaysia, 1k to New Caledonia, 1k to Taiwan, 3x1k to Vietnam. 17:32:56 Doesn't look good. :-/ 17:41:21 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: No route to host). 17:41:54 -!- Tritonio has joined. 17:41:57 0.9909328 blocks of IPv6 space free, 0.98796 blocks IPv4 space free. 17:44:00 crystal-cola: Any further progress with finding the base solutions of n|5^n-3^n? :-) 17:44:15 I haven't been thinking about it today 17:44:29 actually 17:44:35 can n be a multiple of 3 or 5? 17:44:52 I can't remember if we proved that impossible or just 5 2^k impossible 17:46:11 crystal-cola: No, 3 or 5 can't divide n for any solution. 17:46:26 iin that case it means that 3 and 5 are invertible 17:46:32 so we could rewrite it like 17:46:40 (3/5)^n - 1 17:46:42 n | (3/5)^n - 1 17:47:14 I guess the problem with that is the value 5^-1 depends on n 17:47:26 Actually, only depends ok k. 17:47:27 maybe it could be useful though 17:47:31 oh yes 17:47:35 tahts true 17:47:47 I'm not sure if it can help a lot but who knows 17:49:03 5^(k*2^r) == 3^(k*2^r) (mod k). Multiplying this yields: 1 == ((3/5)^k)^(2^r) (mod k). 17:50:00 (3/5)^k mod k is easy to calculate. 17:51:26 is it? :S 17:51:28 But x^(2^r) mod k isn't, since r has upper bound of k^2. 17:51:28 I don't know how to do it 17:51:36 oh 17:52:00 Invert 5 mod k, multiply mod k and use modexp. 17:52:31 so no formula for it 17:52:43 Actually, if one could compute order of (3/5)^k mod k in Z_k... 17:53:50 hmm, Slashdot are busy discussing the JavaScript "for (x in document.write) {document.write(x);}", which apparently crashes IE6 17:53:55 I'm trying to figure out what, if anything, it means 17:55:19 That would write every property of document.write into the document. 17:55:52 However, document.write should have NO properties, so why that would do anything is beyond me. 17:55:56 But then, we are talking about IE6. 17:56:01 For k=17, 3/5 mod k is 4. 4^17 mod 17 is 4. The order of 4 is 4, and therefore r_min is 2. 17:56:06 For all I know, one of the properties is 17:56:06 It might have a "prototype" property. That's what I get for a random function. 17:56:25 fizzie: It should have a prototype property, but AFAIK that shouldn't be indexed by for...in. 17:56:53 Err, yeah, s/every/every enumerable/ above :P 17:57:13 crystal-cola: Basically, The order of (3/5)^k mod k in Z_k must be power of two for there be solutions of form k*2^r. 17:58:12 crystal-cola: Which actually brings r_min bound down to: r_min < k. 17:58:17 This is of course just an empirical test, but 17:58:18 js> function foo() { return 42; } 17:58:18 js> for (x in foo) print(x); 17:58:19 prototype 17:58:52 hey 17:59:09 Ilari: I think that gives a very fast algorithm to to check it ! 17:59:16 perhaps.. only fast to eliminate 17:59:59 crystal-cola: Nope, it is still exponential. 18:00:12 aw, oh well 18:00:32 fizzie: Hm. What engine? 18:00:34 And that inversion assumes k is not multiple of 5, but it can't be multiple of it anyway. 18:00:55 function foo() {}; for (var x in foo) print(x); // has no output for me 18:01:24 Gregor: ECMA-262 does say the "prototype" property has a false [[Enumerable]] attribute, so that sounds more right. 18:01:37 This "js" seems to be from Rhino. 18:01:43 fizzie: Which is why I'm curious what --- ah, Rhino. 18:01:51 Curious, Rhino shouldn't be so broken, it's from Mozilla :P 18:02:00 But then, until I came 'round, Narcissus was broken *flexes* 18:03:10 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:06:50 Actually, even tighter bound: 2^r_min must divide phi(k). 18:09:41 And since phi(k) = prod((p_l-1)*p_l^(m_l-1)) and k is odd, this is the sum of power of two in all distinct prime factors of k. 18:10:13 that's a lot tighetr actually because the number of primes factors seems small 18:11:05 E.g. For k = 2329... 2329 = 17 * 136 -> r_min <= 4 + 3 = 7. 18:11:34 wait how did you get 4 + 3 18:11:34 ? 18:11:46 oh right 18:11:57 4|phi(17) and 3|phi(136) 18:12:15 2^4 and 2^34 18:12:16 2^4 and 2^3 18:13:49 That's a vast improvement over old bound of 2329! 18:13:59 yes :D 18:14:14 I think it can be used to compute a large amont fo data on the irreducible pairs 18:14:30 maybe that will be enough to find what they are 18:15:30 One can actually apply it to that 3^(k*2^r)==5^(k*2^r) (mod k) formula (which doesn't need element inversion. 18:16:47 In fact, with that sort of algorithm, the factorization of k is the only thing that is superpolynomial. The algorithm is subexponential with efficient integer factorization. 18:17:19 so one could just generate lots of prmies 18:17:26 multiply all the odd ones together and check them 18:17:36 Actually: Even faster algorithm: phi(k) < k. Take ceil(log2(k)) as upper bound. 18:17:58 That's linear. 18:22:17 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:23:20 Combined with powmod algorithm, the whole thing is fully polynomial-time. 18:23:30 Hmm 18:24:30 great 18:24:40 * Sgeo wants to sneeze on his math professor 18:25:01 why 18:25:07 did he not profess the right math 18:25:22 crystal-cola, I'll let this channel decide that 18:25:32 tell tell 18:27:20 And one doesn't need to factorize k values in order to tell if those are reducable or not: One can use gcd to extract the relevant factors. 18:28:00 hah I didn't think of that, that's really naet 18:28:03 neat 18:28:44 624272c5c20b7799dc73c6050405d2ba41487c4b 18:28:47 ^^ SHA-1 18:29:11 When looking at a uniform continuous probability distribution, is or is not the height of the line a probability? 18:30:30 Basically, compute gcds aginst all previous known irreducable k's, divide them out. Repeat until all gcds give 1. If the number is still not 1, then add the original to irreducables. 18:31:01 `addquote ais523: YOU WILL HAVE YOUR QUOTE SOON 18:31:06 382) ais523: YOU WILL HAVE YOUR QUOTE SOON 18:31:42 Or add it anyway if r_min is smaller than largest among non-coprime irreducable k. 18:31:51 Ilari, comment? 18:31:55 -!- elliott has joined. 18:32:01 elliott, read logs? 18:32:03 i have been paged, setting off grumpy bastard mode 18:32:06 beware 18:32:26 Sgeo: what are you paging me for 18:32:39 To hopefully answer my question 18:32:51 what question 18:32:53 Sgeo: It isn't a probabilty. It is probabilty density. 18:33:08 That's what I thought 18:33:13 Please tell my math professor 18:33:26 And what I SHA-1'd: I assert that it is not a probability. I attempted to show examples where it would be 4, and where what he claimed was not compatible with using a more general formula he gave to work out the answer. 18:33:28 Sgeo: To have any real probabilty for some value in continuous distribution, you need a delta function at that value. 18:34:18 What notation would one use for a probability density? 18:34:28 I think he said "density" at one point, maybe, but dropped it later 18:34:40 And did use P(X) as its label... 18:34:57 Given continuous distribution p(x) the probabilty for value in range [x1,x2] is int(p(x),x,x1,x2). 18:35:19 Oh, so his notation is acceptable? 18:36:03 Then why did he say that my example of a uniform distribution between 0 and 1/4 must be impossible, because P(X) would be 4 and that's not a valid probability 18:36:35 You can have uniform distribution over any finite interval. 18:36:56 Maybe he misunderstood what I was saying? 18:37:05 * Sgeo , defender of idiots 18:37:16 thank you, Sgeo, for obsoleting me entirely. 18:37:29 Actually, he was pretty ticked at me. Told me to wipe the smug smile off my face, and asked if I wanted to teach the class 18:37:33 lol 18:37:39 it's funny because he teaches at a terrible college 18:37:46 and is a failure 18:38:05 sort of like that obama guy what does he do all day anyway 18:38:24 With continuous distributions, the condition for validity is that the integral of probabilty desntity over support must be exactly 1. 18:38:49 Ilari, is there a way to get you in contact with my math professor? 18:39:40 yeah, the pdf is nothing to do with an actual probability; the integral of it is. 18:39:44 Sgeo: looks like you were right, so in my view you should just stop caring now 18:39:52 (for continuous ones, of course) 18:40:01 Sgeo: you said everything already, trying to convince him wont work - he might realize it though 18:40:09 lifthrasiir, it occurs to me that he did say pdf 18:40:12 and if your math professor did say so then it is unfortunate 18:41:26 pdf is a document format idiots ;D 18:42:05 For discrete distribution, the sum of all probablities must equal 1 of course. 18:42:42 I think in my attempts to understand him in a way that made him not an idiot, I asked if we were talking about discrete distributions. He said no. 18:42:46 And all discreate distributions can be represented as continuous ones (but that results in delta spikes). 18:42:56 why get upset about it anyway 18:43:00 After I was done trying to present my proof, he decided to reteach me what a discrete distribution was 18:43:01 just be right about everrything 18:43:04 and deal with it 18:43:11 crystal-cola, I just want to be certain that I'm not utterly mistaken 18:43:24 well you need to get your defintiions 18:43:27 and check everything 18:43:33 if you aren't sure that you are right 18:43:50 just be right about everrything 18:43:50 and deal with it 18:43:51 is this what you do 18:44:20 it's easy to be right abut this 18:44:28 just write out the definition of probaility distribution or whatever it is 18:44:29 crystal-cola, that's what I intended to do by asking here 18:44:30 you said about everything 18:44:37 Sgeo: you could also try thinking 18:44:52 Sgeo: well can you say formall what it is you're wondering? 18:44:54 It was my thinking that lead me to my conclusion that he was wrong 18:44:55 formally 18:45:02 comex: you scallywag: http://www.pastie.org/private/orzgwxc2ax80vrs8v0rew 18:45:22 Sgeo: in society we are normall taught that "if thinking makes you think $authority_figure is wrong, stop thinking" 18:45:29 Sgeo: maybe it's just that effect 18:45:53 but what is the theorem ro whatever? 18:46:00 are we actually taught that explicitly or implicitly 18:46:08 there's a difference between that and it arising from other teachings 18:46:08 dunno 18:46:49 this guy on the net is pissing me off 18:47:10 what an unusual occurrence!!! 18:47:25 Hah... If your doctor told you you have 4.0mmol/l of LDL in your blood, would you believe it? :-) 18:47:40 I would because I don't know what LDL is :S 18:47:57 * crystal-cola bites Sgeo 18:48:05 I asked for theorems 18:48:20 I wouldn't, because that is utterly ridiculous amount. 18:48:21 crystal-cola, is there a theorem proving that probability distribution isn't probability? 18:48:37 Sgeo: no im just asking "what is it you're not certain about" 18:48:59 crystal-cola, that somehow, by some means that I don't understand, my professor might be right somehow 18:49:07 Ilari: i have 9009 mmol/l of LDL in my tiger blood. 18:49:10 why is this a hard concept 18:49:16 im asking you what the mathematical statement is 18:49:26 ugh, another esowiki link on proggit 18:49:28 this is going to be painful 18:49:48 Is a probability? 18:49:54 oh wow the joke is that it has fap in it 18:49:55 SO FUNNY 18:50:01 so funny i made it in here years ago 18:50:43 Sgeo: okay I give up :( 18:50:49 I can't get sense out of you 18:50:50 crystal-cola, what do you want? 18:51:00 crystal-cola: gigo 18:51:05 you had some kind of disagreement with your teacher 18:51:15 what mathematical statement is it that you are questioning 18:51:25 elliott: no you 18:51:34 crystal-cola: i was attempting to help you communicate 18:51:45 Sgeo: crystal-cola wants you to write out your disagreement in Coq 18:51:47 crystal-cola, his claim, that 1/(b-a) in a continuous distribution is a probability of some sort 18:52:01 that is completely vauge 18:52:12 -!- pingveno1 has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:52:12 -!- pingveno has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:52:42 -!- pingveno has joined. 18:53:53 I'll take a picture 18:54:39 oh joy 18:54:47 joy in joy out 18:55:36 http://i.imgur.com/farXp.jpg 18:55:42 Sgeo: http://m.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=normal+distribution+with+mean%3D0+sigma%3D0.01 pdf with a peak of ~40. 18:56:18 I can't even fucking read it 18:56:41 get dijkstra to write it out for you 18:56:50 When you say that the probability of X = 160 in the example of uniform distribution was 1/50 did you mean P(159,5 yeah this is like the response to something 18:57:11 how could I possible make sense of this without the context 18:57:18 what's X? what's P 18:59:34 Sgeo: again, please restate in coq 19:04:06 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 19:04:12 -!- Germille has joined. 19:06:53 10:12:13: no, if you have to think, you should rewrite it so it would be obvious 19:06:53 10:12:33: comments are mostly useless and indicate you don't know what you're doing:) 19:07:05 Fuco: this is true only when you are writing software requiring no complex algorithms whatsoever 19:07:07 i.e., trivial software 19:07:34 what would be a complex algorithm 19:07:53 "if you have to ask..." 19:08:12 it's true, applications that amount to an interface to a database require pretty much no commenting. 19:09:01 I'm currently working on big constraint solver library (www.unitime.org), there are hardly any comments in the code 19:09:17 the code can still be obvious 19:09:23 sure, you have to study the algorithm 19:09:32 but that's not the problem of how you rewrite it in some prog. language 19:10:06 but if I know I'm going to write IFS with perturbation counter or whatever, I can study that beforehand 19:10:12 and than write code that is understandable 19:10:20 for people who are familiar with it obviously 19:10:23 well, it can easily be reductio-ad-absurdumed: if comments were never necessary, mathematical papers would have no English text 19:10:26 but otherwise you shouldn't read it anyway 19:10:39 Fuco: that doesn't work if you're creating new algorithms for the purpose 19:10:43 because nobody is familiar 19:10:54 and telling people "hey go look at this paper I wrote" is just a comment that you've collapsed into a url 19:10:56 well that's what research papers are for 19:10:57 and that is more likely to get out-of-date 19:10:59 see above 19:11:13 lol 19:11:16 there is a binary 19:11:21 trivial or research papers 19:11:28 that's an interesting idea 19:11:32 probably the future will be like that 19:11:37 wait let's be like zzo 19:11:40 MAKE YOUR PROGRAM A BOOK 19:11:44 SO YOU CAN PRINT OUT A BOOK THAT'S YOUR PROGRAM 19:11:46 BEST OF BOTH WORLDS 19:11:53 X) 19:12:02 AND THEN PUBLISH YOUR BOOKRAM IN THE RESEARCH JOURNALS 19:12:13 elliott: most mathematical papers are in chinese anzwazs. 19:12:14 and everyone can scan it and OCR it and compile it 19:12:39 also, anyways. 19:12:55 Wasn't there a crypto book that was just the source code to a program? 19:13:00 anzwazs <-- lol 19:13:09 yeah, typo. 19:13:24 it could be a real world 19:13:30 only in german 19:13:38 -!- vorik111|zzz has changed nick to vorik111. 19:13:42 either way 19:14:07 the human language text in mathematical proofs is not code duplication of the rest, unlike it is with comments 19:17:53 I _just_ realized that I may have a password lying around with Sony 19:17:59 I don't know if it's on PSN or not 19:18:41 Sego: _Cracking DES_ includes OCR-able source code. 19:19:14 where did all these new people come from anyway 19:19:17 My name is not Sg?? Eo?? 19:19:21 is it another one of those stealth invasions 19:19:41 Woops, I meant Sgeo. 19:19:50 I should have let tab completion do the job for me. l[ 19:19:53 Err, ;] 19:20:31 GETTIN' SUSPICIOUS HERE 19:20:59 Is station.sony.com connected to PSN? 19:21:20 dnm_: Are you from the Haskell army. 19:21:28 Who, me? 19:21:34 Yes. 19:21:36 This is an interrogation. 19:21:57 What's my right against self-incrimination? 19:22:13 I use Haskell, but I'm not in the army. 19:22:18 -!- monqy has joined. 19:22:23 dnm_: Absolutely nonexistent is what it is. 19:22:32 I'm just verifying you're not one of those #haskell agents. 19:22:40 Has there been an influx of Haskellistas here? 19:22:46 Steven Sego. 19:23:07 augur likes to mention it 19:23:10 i think copumpkin did once 19:23:16 "Representatives from SOE reminded people that SOE systems and databases are separate from PSN's" 19:23:20 basically we're drowning in haskellers. 19:23:24 Ah. 19:23:25 :( 19:23:38 it doesn't matter if you use haskell, it's being from there that's the issue :D 19:23:38 Well, a friend of mine who is into Haskell more than I am did tip me off to the channel. 19:23:50 dnm_: who was it, we'll have them dispatched swiftly 19:23:52 And he probably frequents the channel. 19:23:55 He's not here. 19:24:06 who is he 19:24:09 He's been gone off IRC for about a week, I think he's busy. 19:24:13 NOT TELLING. 19:24:16 He's a good guy. 19:24:18 OUT WITH IT 19:24:18 hmm, who's here and been off irc for about a week 19:24:22 i'll grep logs 19:24:28 hmm 19:24:31 how to go about this 19:24:31 OR OUT WITH YOU 19:24:40 I, on the other hand, am just a languages nut. 19:24:49 I could grep for all names here in the past week, and then grep the current logs for all those names 19:24:53 Somehow I didn't know about this channel. 19:24:53 and find the ones with no matches 19:25:03 yes, this is a viable plan 19:25:03 dnm_: there's lots of places like this 19:25:06 * Sgeo stabs a guess at oerjan 19:25:17 oerjan has been here this week 19:25:19 ok so monday is twentyfifth 19:25:20 Oh 19:25:30 so wish i had my number keys round about now 19:25:38 ^nr 19:25:39 `1234567890-=~!@#$%^&*()_+ 19:25:42 No output. 19:25:51 Why all the #haskell influx anyway? 19:26:01 lots of people here are in there 19:26:07 and mentioning this channel is fUN 19:26:11 and addictive, clearly 19:26:24 [~/logs/_esoteric]% echo 2011-04-[20-27].txt 1 19:26:25 zsh: no matches found: 2011-04-[20-27].txt 19:26:25 gah zsh stop being terrible :( 19:26:34 frustrating when people don't clarify their questions 19:26:49 as if they don't want to be understood 19:30:18 dnm_: is it impomatic 19:30:28 15:23 < dnm_> NOT TELLING. 19:30:36 % for nick in `awk '/<.*>/ { gsub(/[<>]/, "", $2); print $2 }' 2011-04-{20,21,22,23,24,25}.txt | sort -u`; do if ! grep -c "$nick" 2011-04-{25,26,27}.txt >/dev/null; then echo $nick; fi; done 19:30:39 look at this monster, people 19:30:45 I will not be your monkey..., er, oracle. 19:30:47 wrote a long annoying shell line for him 19:30:52 narrowed it down to very few people 19:30:56 and yet still he tortures me so 19:31:14 thoroughly shocking 19:31:40 ah, hmm, perhaps it is rapido or Mathnerd314 19:31:42 elliott: fairly readable. 19:31:53 lifthrasiir: ok but it was still annoying to write :) bear in mind i have no number keys 19:31:56 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:32:14 Oh man. 19:32:22 hmm, technically it could also be TeruFSX or FireFly, if they keep their irc client running while they're away 19:32:23 elliott: ugh. 19:32:26 This wiki is great compared to the old catseye site. 19:32:37 dnm_: lol, cat's eye just has cpressey's languages 19:32:38 http://catseye.tc/ 19:32:56 Yeah, but it's what I was used to as my jumping off point for esolang stuff. 19:33:01 right 19:33:12 the problem with the wiki is that... 90 percent of the languages are crap 19:33:18 heheheheh 19:33:24 I remember the epiphany I had when I first encountered Unlambda. 19:33:42 why 19:33:55 argh, dnm_ connects through a vps so I can't use geolocation to track down who it could be 19:34:01 i'm dedicated to my lynchings, me 19:34:34 Bwahahahah/ 19:34:48 I mean, you can find out where the VPS is. 19:35:04 that doesn't exactly help, since anyone can buy a linode and it'll be in a us data centre 19:35:06 or maybe european, dunno 19:35:27 True. 19:35:39 i suppose i could interrogate everyone who comes back next week. 19:35:46 Though, I'm publicly logged on other freenode channels already. I'm in the D.C. area. 19:36:10 YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS that narrows it down to absolutely everyone since this is the internet 19:36:11 What are the haps my friends. 19:36:17 WHERE'S NEWS HAM DAMMIT 19:36:31 -!- news-ham has joined. 19:36:31 the news ham is right here 19:36:33 At least everyone is a finite number! 19:36:41 dnm_: Is it TeruFSX 19:36:45 What are the technology haps my friends. 19:36:46 Kindle gets library book lending: Users of Amazon's Kindle e-reader will soon be able to borrow electronic books from libraries in the US. http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/technology-13155967 19:37:16 "kindle" makes me wanna puke 19:37:24 thank you for your valuable opinion 19:37:27 news-ham: haha that's great 19:37:30 Urban birds have bigger brains: City dwelling birds have larger brains relative to their body size, according to scientists. http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_9468000/9468306.stm 19:37:34 what 19:37:36 kindle sympathizer 19:37:38 did someone /msg it 19:37:41 you disgust me 19:37:45 crystal-cola: what exactly is pukeworthy about the kindle 19:37:51 apart from the amazon shit 19:37:53 sup news-ham 19:37:54 UK economy sees return to growth: The UK economy grew 0.5% in the first three months of this year, making up ground lost at the end of 2010. http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/business-13206430 19:37:56 the amazon shit? 19:38:03 that's nice, news-ham 19:38:05 World Snooker live - O'Sullivan v Higgins: Three-time Crucible champions Ronnie O'Sullivan and John Higgins continue their battle for a spot in the World Championship semi-finals. http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/sport1/hi/other_sports/snooker/9469117.stm 19:38:11 i.e. the remote control bullshit which is irrelevant if you just pirate the books :) 19:38:13 ok who is doing that 19:38:13 seriously 19:38:18 i'm not into snooker news-ham 19:38:19 Killed daredevil was new recruit: A stunt man who plunged to his death at a Kent show was a new recruit to the daredevil team, according to a friend. http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/uk-england-13205471 19:38:23 wait 19:38:26 did i leave it in debug mode 19:38:30 elliott: it's a user you have on ignore] 19:38:34 news-ham: are you a bot? 19:38:35 Ban on stem-cell patents 'wrong': Research involving human embryonic stem cells in Europe is under threat, says a group of leading scientists. http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/health-13214036 19:38:49 oh, i see 19:38:59 elliott: also can it do specific topic news? 19:39:04 yes 19:39:05 like news about ham (for example)? 19:39:18 i'll paste a list, gimme a second 19:39:38 -!- news-ham has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:39:43 -!- news-ham has joined. 19:39:58 crystal-cola: http://sprunge.us/ULSS 19:40:24 crystal-cola: just mention it in your message. science and magic. 19:41:20 news-ham: sup? 19:41:25 aw! 19:41:26 :D 19:41:35 * dnm_ reads wiki page on DateFuck 19:41:44 What are the magic haps my friends. 19:41:45 Hillarious. Not what I was expecting. 19:41:45 'More pupil benchmarks' to come: The English Baccalaureate is the first of many new performance measures, as ministers seek to make information available to parents in England, says Schools Minister Nick Gibb. http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/education-13207055 19:42:02 dnm_, is it a BRAINFUCK DERIVATIVE? 19:42:03 news-ham: are you just being slow? 19:42:13 yes, it starts with brainfuck and takes away all brainfuck instructions 19:42:21 and also semantics 19:42:24 of any kind 19:42:34 news-ham reddit 19:42:34 Cutie does a cover of "6 Foot 7 Foot" by Lil Wayne...wait? Whats that in the background?!?!? http://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/gykip/cutie_does_a_cover_of_6_foot_7_foot_by_lil/ 19:42:43 lool 19:42:48 it should return news about reddit instead 19:42:52 Phantom_Hoover: Doesn't seem to be. 19:43:10 dnm_, THANK GOD 19:43:15 news-ham art 19:43:16 Fed cuts US GDP growth forecast: The Federal Reserve cuts its economic growth forecast for this year, citing weaker growth than expected in the first three months of the year. http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/business-13213424 19:43:21 I HATE BRAINFUCK DERIVATIVES SO MUCH GRAAAAAAAAH 19:43:21 crystal-cola: itym "arts" 19:43:32 news-ham arts 19:43:32 McGee 'turns down' Creation drama: Former record label owner and musician Alan McGee turned down the chance to make a drama about his company Creation Records, he reveals. http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/entertainment-arts-13162825 19:43:41 dnm_: Phantom_Hoover is three years old, he says hi. 19:43:43 news-ham sic 19:43:43 Map of the route: Explore the processional route to be taken by the newly-married couple, from Westminster Abbey to Buckingham Palace. http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/uk-12819687 19:43:46 news-ham sci 19:43:46 Climate change to hit US rivers: Scarce water supplies in the western US will probably dwindle further as a result of climate change, a US government report says. http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/world-us-canada-13190689 19:44:00 crystal-cola: do you actually have fingers or do you just kind of mash your face into the keyboard until you get the right sentence 19:44:02 i know that's what i do 19:44:28 LOLOLOL 19:44:39 hyb vfvnh 19:44:42 that's what my face says in response 19:46:26 news-ham spam 19:46:27 Timings on the day: The following timings have been confirmed for royal wedding day. http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/uk-13097243 19:47:12 Speaking of news 19:47:15 http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/the-lay-scientist/2010/sep/24/1 19:48:42 you haven't seen that before? :P 19:48:52 Nope. 19:48:59 Not until earlier today. 19:49:05 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:49:06 spacedino.png is my new mascot though 19:49:08 well I guess Americans are a bit slow ;D ;D ;D 19:49:26 urgh 19:49:28 dnm_: I hate that shit 19:49:37 i hate satire too 19:49:39 The article itself, or the style it mocks? 19:49:41 it should carry the death penalty 19:49:44 both 19:49:46 Maybe my professor didn't have probability confused with probability density, but is so terrible at correcting people that he didn't see that I thought he was saying "probability" 19:50:04 they can't mock it because they're guitly 19:50:45 crystal-cola: define they 19:50:52 it was written by a single blogger 19:50:57 "THEY" 19:51:00 whose blog happens to be hosted by the Guardian 19:51:00 Although then again, he suggested that the 0 to 1/4 situation that I set up must be impossible 19:51:15 crystal-cola: ok, please show where Martin Robbins is guilty of what it mocks 19:51:19 sorry 19:51:22 I am wrong you got me 19:51:30 I thuoght it was just a guardian article 19:51:39 crystal-cola: isn't it obvious, it has no spelling mistakes 19:51:44 hehe 19:51:50 i would like to see them print http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/9/24/1285359869220/spacedino.png though :D 19:51:56 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:52:28 Yeah 19:52:44 maybe cover the whole front page with it 19:52:48 YAKAWOW is of course the headline 19:53:41 "Ron Armontrout" is a great name. 19:54:02 (apropos of nothing) 19:54:44 not as good as armouredtrout 19:54:49 Yeah. 19:55:00 I was thinking of Armortrout 19:55:04 But it seemed too easy. 19:55:26 ron armontrout seems to be an Actual Name according to google 19:56:03 -!- Wamanuz3 has joined. 19:56:06 -!- Wamanuz2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:56:41 Yes. 19:56:46 He's a book author, among other things. 19:57:02 nonsense, he has no wikipedia article 19:57:03 doesn't 19:57:03 exist 19:57:18 e.g. 19:57:20 "Irina Lyublinskaya and her colleagues, Dr. Valeriy Ryzhik and Ron Armontrout, just finished a new book titled: Calculus Explorations with Geometry Expressions." 19:57:36 Sounds like something Sgeo would read. 19:57:48 (Not really, but it has "calculus explorations".) 19:58:53 it would have to be "calculus adventure fun" 19:59:08 -!- Tritonio has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:03:44 dnm_: what is it about? 20:04:58 Teaching Calculus through Geometry Expressions (a graphical constraint-based geometric modeling and math tool) 20:05:05 http://www.geometryexpressions.com/ 20:07:33 is it good? 20:07:45 Cam Welcome to computerized mathematical modeling 20:07:52 The book? I have no idea, I don't have it. I have GX though, and I like it. 20:07:53 it's non-free 20:07:56 Yeah. 20:08:02 What a fucking bullshit shit fuck 20:08:04 uh, calculus is only tangentially related to geometry. 20:08:11 There is already a god damn geometry software 20:09:09 dnm_: crystal-cola is two days old. he says hi. 20:09:21 i'm one second old btw 20:09:36 im furious 20:09:41 me too. 20:09:43 elliott, ah, your previous negative age explains so much 20:09:50 non free software in education 20:09:51 GRRRR 20:09:53 Vorpal: no, i just hand over to a new elliott every seconds 20:10:16 elliott, ah that explains it even better. 20:10:23 dnm_: i swear this channel is occasionally interesting. 20:10:32 Heh. 20:10:32 Hello bluebird on my head, aren't you glad the old one's dead? 20:10:42 dnm_: occasionally. 20:11:33 one main issue is that a lot of the esoteric programming things were already discussed before. Someone needs to invent something new that oerjan can then prove TC. 20:11:48 i never said it was interesting /esolang/ discussion :D 20:12:01 elliott, gah :P 20:12:02 what would be really hard to prove TC 20:12:10 ? 20:12:10 crystal-cola: oolzybub and murphy 20:12:17 tc iff goldbach 20:12:24 sorry oozlybub 20:12:28 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Oozlybub_and_Murphy 20:12:28 http://catseye.tc/projects/oozlybub-and-murphy/ 20:12:40 elliott, what about that one that switches interpreter every other instruction? 20:12:56 Vorpal: that doesn't really make it hard 20:13:01 it's not two interpreters, just two different "modes" 20:13:13 Oozlybub and Murphy has possibly my favourite name ever. 20:13:23 Phantom_Hoover: the justification is better 20:13:23 The name of this language is Oozlybub and Murphy. Despite appearances, this name refers to a single language. The majority of the language is named Oozlybub. The fact that the language is not entirely named Oozlybub is named Murphy. Deal with it. 20:13:32 elliott, indeed but iirc the computational class is not known? 20:13:41 elliott, yeah, that's the bit I like. 20:13:44 Vorpal: indeed, but it's strongly suspected to be sub-TC 20:14:02 quite, but do you happen to remember what it was called? 20:14:03 I thought Goldbach was suspected to be true? 20:14:15 Oh, you mean the other language. 20:14:22 Vorpal: dupdog 20:14:31 ah, right 20:15:44 elliott, if the Goldbach Conjecture was false, what would the computational class of Oozlybub and Murphy be? 20:16:00 Vorpal: sub-TC. 20:16:07 elliott, yes but which sub-TC 20:16:12 well, it wouldn't be able to infinite-loop. 20:16:13 elliott, FSM? 20:16:16 so not very good at all :) 20:16:28 i think all loops would be fixed length 20:16:46 elliott, yes yes... I gather that. But there is still quite a lot of different computational classes left to choose from 20:17:12 elliott, for a start would it be bounded by input length? 20:17:20 dunno. 20:17:35 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:18:22 -!- Germille has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:19:05 "Once a dynast has been executed, it continues to exist until the program halts, but it may never be executed again." <-- hrrm, what significance does it have that it continues to exist? 20:19:08 -!- Germille has joined. 20:19:18 i think the number of dynasts matter? dunno. 20:19:22 it might just be more chris wackiness. 20:19:48 like "TRIVIA PORTION OF SHOW"? 20:19:58 Like that, yes. 20:20:43 elliott, I suspect cpressy is somewhat crazy. 20:20:50 I mean, more than you 20:20:54 says the only sane and most boring person in here 20:21:05 LOL 20:21:05 oh look 20:21:05 Latest news: 2011.0427: None can avoid the luminous precipitation of Oozlybub and Murphy version 1.1! Read more on our news page, or subscribe to our RSS feed. 20:21:08 elliott, arguably I'm not completely sane. Or I wouldn't be in here. 20:21:09 just got released 20:21:10 like, this second 20:21:16 it wasn't there a few minutes ago when i checked 20:21:23 April 27, 2011: Version 1.1 of the Oozlybub and Murphy programming language has been released. This update tries to clarify some of the errors in the specification while also slathering some extra goo onto it like a wimpmode. Enjoy, then enjoy again, then PLEASE DO KEEP ENJOYING UNTIL YOUR EYES BURN WITH DEEP DEEP CORROSION. 20:21:27 -!- pingveno has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:21:31 "Wimpmode 20:21:32 (New in 1.1) An Oozlybub and Murphy program is in wimpmode if it 20:21:32 declares a global variable of integer type which matches the string am a wimp, 20:21:32 for example: 20:21:32 " 20:21:36 gah the newlines 20:21:45 elliott, I saw that when I loaded it a few less minutes ago 20:23:30 -!- pingveno has joined. 20:24:27 elliott, arguably I'm not completely sane. Or I wouldn't be in here. <-- maybe your insanity is similar to Gregor's sense of taste 20:24:45 oerjan: shitty? 20:24:51 also, it's his sense of smell 20:24:57 oerjan, you mean, a lot of pink? 20:25:07 or what sort of taste did you mean 20:25:10 ...not that kind of taste 20:25:18 actually maybe that too XD 20:25:35 oerjan, oh you didn't mean "bad taste" as in "that colour combination is bad taste"? 20:25:40 but actually literal taste? 20:25:59 no, i meant literally. you have not managed to miss Gregor's hyposmia too, have you? 20:26:05 *euphnarphia 20:26:14 oerjan, I believe I have 20:26:14 *sense of fnarf 20:26:27 Gregor: hey i corrected it! 20:26:42 It's only euphnarphia if it fnarfs good :P 20:26:49 elliott, BY THE WAY. I had today free. I finished reading homestuck. Or I assume I did, I reached a point of no more "going forward" link. 20:27:05 (I did it on another computer that has flash) 20:27:17 no eu- applies to the sense not to the fnarf 20:27:19 Vorpal: In... one... day? 20:27:27 It took me and Phantom_Hoover five days. 20:27:28 elliott, plus a few hours yesterday evening yes 20:27:34 how 20:27:39 You DID expand the pesterlogs right 20:27:43 of course 20:27:50 i'm going to step away slowly now 20:27:57 you read three thousand seven hundred strips in one day 20:27:58 elliott, and I read them. I did speed up reading the white guy one by using firebug to change bg colour 20:28:07 but that was just a few comics 20:28:09 Vorpal: erm i just used ctrl+A :D 20:28:19 Vorpal, erm, what. 20:28:22 Seriously, what. 20:28:23 You didn't skip the recaps right? 20:28:24 elliott, I found that removed the colour differences between the speakers 20:28:27 HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE 20:28:36 maybe Gregor's taste in colors is simply victorian. i read somewhere they thought green and orange went well together 20:28:36 elliott, WE MUST VERIFY 20:28:44 elliott, actually I did skip the recaps. Or rather I glanced over them. 20:28:58 bbl, going to sleep. Early morning tomorrow 20:28:58 Vorpal: They revealed semi-important plot details, but you've probably realised what they were by now. 20:29:01 I think I tend to skim everything I read 20:29:02 Vorpal, what is the name of the troll with the scarf? 20:29:17 Vorpal: If you don't mind I'm going to go sit quietly in a corner and punish myself for being a slow reader. 20:31:26 actually, back. 20:31:34 Phantom_Hoover, hm I think Eridan had one? 20:32:12 * Vorpal looks at the all page thingy to confirm this and randomly clicks one mentioning that guy. 20:32:14 Vorpal, did you actually read the Pesterlogs in detail or kind of skim them? 20:32:17 yep seems so http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004349 20:32:28 Did you do any other things? 20:32:29 * elliott rocks gently in his corner of happiness 20:32:36 * elliott gibbers 20:32:47 Phantom_Hoover, I ate food. That is about it. Oh and slept a bit during the night, 20:32:56 Yeah, that'll be how you did it. 20:33:00 But that's what I did too 20:33:04 OK I coded a little bit but still. 20:33:06 Hey Phantom_Hoover you slowed me down. 20:33:11 * elliott awaits reciprocation 20:33:13 Yeah, but you were *utterly* pathetic. 20:33:20 Phantom_Hoover, oh and I *did not read* anything but homestuck. None of the previous, problem sleuth and so on 20:33:24 I'll leave those for later 20:33:40 I kept up with you despite you making me stop when you weren't there and you having nights to get a buffer up. 20:33:47 Vorpal: Problem Sleuth is the only other one, and it's only slightly over a fifth of the length. 20:33:52 The others are ridiculously incomplete and tiny. 20:33:56 If I'd actually read it all the time I wanted to, I'd have finished sooner. 20:33:59 ah 20:34:01 Phantom_Hoover: EXCUSES 20:34:18 Vorpal: I haven't read PS either because it doesn't look nearly as interesting. 20:34:30 I found that time travel in the interlude (forgot which one, when the agents were taking down those green guys) utterly confusing. 20:34:45 It's simple. The oven goes forward at one second per second. 20:34:47 Any questions? 20:34:52 elliott, XD 20:35:18 elliott, I meant the other parts. The stuff about following future trail in the past and what not. 20:35:24 and different timelines 20:35:58 I have no idea what you are talking about. 20:36:03 Ha ha ha. Such lies. 20:36:14 elliott, always the joker 20:36:20 Ah, that's how he managed it. 20:36:24 Vorpal: P.S. http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=ryanquest is way better than Homestuck. 20:36:38 We were also applying brainpower to the events, rather than just cramming them into our heads. 20:36:47 oh god, I never liked dinosaur comics.. 20:36:52 YOU ARE NOT HUMAN 20:37:12 But that's okay because Ryanquest is basically a gigantic mockery of Ryan North. 20:37:20 Phantom_Hoover: maybe he just doesn't have any brainpower to apply 20:37:38 Phantom_Hoover: yeah we've totally got all that plot sorted out 20:37:39 totally 20:37:48 it is extremely obvious what is going on obviously 20:37:55 he'll just go through it as fast as you can say "herp derp" 3700 times 20:38:12 herp derp 20:38:13 herp derp 20:38:14 herp derp 20:38:16 herp derp 20:38:18 herp derp 20:38:19 elliott, we have it *kind* of sorted out. 20:38:19 herp derp 20:38:20 herp derp 20:38:22 herp derp 20:38:23 herp derp 20:38:25 elliott, also I never had quite such an feeling of abrupt anti-climax as when I found no "next" button... Worst end of archive binge I ever had. 20:38:26 Phantom_Hoover: sorry busy reading herp derp 20:38:38 probably because it was the longest archive binge in number of panels 20:38:40 Vorpal: Your achive binges usually end in something other than a comic with no next button? 20:38:41 herp derp 20:38:41 :P 20:38:45 herp derp 20:38:55 elliott, no, I said worst one, not only one 20:39:03 elliott, it didn't really end at a climactic point. 20:39:04 elliott, anyway IWC took longer to binge than this one 20:39:13 Just Terezie dicking around in that room. 20:39:22 A WILD E APPEARS 20:39:27 Phantom_Hoover, well, the journal entry was quite interesting 20:39:35 ais523: Talk: Var needs deletion 20:39:42 oerjan: no it is the best 20:39:45 i am going to make a language based around it 20:39:48 it will be called Var 20:40:57 * ais523 deletes 20:41:07 ais523: you have failed to be happy and love 20:41:27 Phantom_Hoover, anyway I think I spent ~13 hours on it today and about 4-5 yesterday evening. 20:41:57 So... 18 hours. Impressive, but not astonishing. 20:42:08 Phantom_Hoover, indeed. It is just elliott who is a slow reader. 20:42:22 Dude, I went at seven hundred and fifty strips per day. 20:42:24 Phantom_Hoover, and I'm a moderately fast reader. 20:42:30 elliott, that is slow 20:42:31 Also I had no difficulties staying ahead of PH while awake. 20:42:34 I was slower than him on the Pesterlogs, although I maintain it was because he kept disrupting my reading. 20:42:43 elliott, come on, have you never finished a Discworld book in a day? 20:42:46 Phantom_Hoover: OR MAYBE YOU'RE ILLITERATE 20:42:51 I have, with the recent thick ones. 20:42:53 Vorpal: ANYWAY, AT LEAST OUR REBOUND FROM THE SUDDENLY SLOWISH PACE HAS BEEN EASIER TO WEATHER 20:43:06 elliott, well yes 20:43:12 OK admittedly it's just because there's almost certainly a Flash coming up. 20:43:13 elliott, how often does it update? 20:43:13 And because he insisted that I not read far beyond him when he was asleep, which was apparently until four in the afternoon. 20:43:18 Vorpal: Five strips per day. 20:43:29 When it doesn't, it's because something big is coming. Usually. 20:43:49 ah... I think I will have to keep up on a weekly basis then. Some days I don't even have time to read a single comic... 20:43:49 Vorpal: (On average, that is.) 20:44:14 elliott, why do you think there is a flash comming up? 20:44:19 (and those are annoying) 20:44:22 elliott: hm. why do these spam bots keep making Talk pages for non-existing pages... 20:44:25 Vorpal: You misspelled "awesome"? 20:44:29 oerjan: dunno. 20:44:35 Vorpal: fails at enjoying Homestuck. 20:44:49 elliott, well I have no sound connected to the computer 20:44:52 Vorpal: Anyway, because (a) there is never this long between regular strips and (b) SUPER LEAKED INFO suggests it is. 20:44:55 so I guess I missed out on that aspect 20:44:57 Vorpal: ... 20:45:09 Exploring everything (incl. all trickster mode music room songs and whatnot) in those playable segments takes a whole lot of time. 20:45:10 2x FACEPALM COMBO 20:45:14 elliott, well *shrug* it was just no convenient 20:45:16 You can be friends with fizzie. 20:45:41 I've listened to them sounds since then, though. 20:45:48 Yes, so clearly Vorpal will have to as well. 20:45:49 fizzie, since what? 20:45:51 ON ANOTHER FREE DAY 20:45:57 elliott, ?? 20:46:11 Vorpal: Reread with sound on. 20:46:32 Vorpal, demand you solve entirely the dynamics of a proton in a day. 20:46:40 It's boring and linear, you'd be great at it. 20:46:56 elliott, I don't think I will have one for several weeks. Due to excessively bad scheduling I had 50% of the "nominal" scheduled time at university this weak, I will have 150% the next week. 20:46:57 The MSPA wiki has links to most of the sound-enabled ones, that's how I did it posthumously. 20:47:02 s/weak/week/ 20:47:24 I like how you could devote nineteen hours to reading homestuck but zero hours to plugging some speakers in 20:47:38 > replicate 3700 (:"erp ") <*> "hd" 20:47:39 ["herp ","derp ","herp ","derp ","herp ","derp ","herp ","derp ","herp ","d... 20:47:40 Phantom_Hoover, yeah, it is certainly more linear than homestuck pesterlog convos :D 20:47:55 And you could have it all 20:47:59 My empire of derp 20:48:02 I will let you down 20:48:06 I will make you herp 20:48:12 Slereah_: slow clap 20:48:14 Slereah_, you are now my favourite person. 20:48:26 wait, I forgot. I spent two of those 18 hours offline 20:48:28 Phantom_Hoover, ^ 20:48:43 one I spent cleaning out my computer case with compressed air 20:49:06 Still not astonishing, particularly since you obviously got the games done with as quickly as possible. 20:49:18 Phantom_Hoover, indeed, I hurried with those 20:49:27 See, I *savoured* it. 20:49:31 "What games? Sometimes the Flashes were just me standing there and I clicked next." 20:49:31 Phantom_Hoover, and I never claimed it was astonishing. 20:50:01 XD 20:50:21 The MSPA wiki has links to most of the sound-enabled ones, that's how I did it posthumously. <-- got a link to the page listing them? 20:50:41 It's the one titled "sound", IIRC. 20:51:06 http://mspaintadventures.wikia.com/wiki/Sound 20:51:18 Is that one properly ordered, though? 20:51:37 Also, it lacks at least [S] Kanaya: Return to the core and [S] Seer: Descend. 20:51:41 Wait. 20:51:43 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:51:45 Vorpal: Just go on the archive page and grep for [S]. 20:51:46 they seem to be ordered by... track? 20:51:47 fizzie: Why didn't you do that. 20:52:03 It's ordered by song, not strip, yes. 20:52:35 And I didn't care about exhaustive rereading, I just listened what sounded interesting. 20:52:37 -!- wareya has joined. 20:52:50 But but ALL the [S]es are awesome. 20:53:01 Although clearly Zillyhoo is by far the best. 20:53:06 I have based this fact on logic. 20:54:06 Phantom_Hoover: FIGURED OUT HOW HE DID IT 20:54:11 Vorpal: I bet you didn't even read the linked SBaHJ strips. 20:54:15 Phantom_Hoover: MYSTERY SOLVED 20:54:21 As we all know, those take up the remaining hours. 20:54:42 elliott, those related to dave and drawn incredibly shitty? 20:54:48 Yes, and referenced constantly. 20:55:02 I read a few. But I have problem with that level of shitty drawing 20:55:09 so yes I skipped most 20:55:18 They're not drawn, man, he retroactively went back and made them all with the SBaHJifier. 20:55:27 This is canon insofar as I believe it as of this line. 20:55:37 Anyway, at least one of them provided a plot hint. :p 20:55:40 elliott, besides there didn't seem to be many things related to the main plot there 20:55:45 elliott, oh, okay 20:55:58 ("are you next?" when Kanaya died linked to a strip where someone (Jeff?) was killed for being a vampire, IIRC.) 20:56:04 (IIRC IIRC IIRC.) 20:56:09 Oh wait, LOL I TOTALLY ROTTHIRTEENED THE ABOVE LINE 20:56:14 herp derp 20:56:14 herp derp 20:56:15 herp derp 20:56:15 herp derp 20:56:15 herp derp 20:56:16 herp derp 20:56:17 herp derp 20:56:18 ...? 20:56:20 (I don't know how up-to-date fizzie is.) 20:56:31 herp derp 20:56:33 oh right 20:56:38 Bats. 20:56:40 Bats and cats. 20:56:42 Cats and herp derp. 20:56:57 fizzie probably has like a two hundred line IRC window, so this could take a while. 20:57:06 elliott, also I'm having problems keeping up with the huge cast. Plus I'm bad a remembering names in real life. I'm much better with remembering faces than names. 20:57:18 so those pesterlogs are sometimes a bit confusing. 20:57:31 I don't even look at anything but the colour and the typing quirk. 20:58:07 elliott, yes that kind of helps. A bit. 20:58:22 i bet one of these centuries i'll find enough time to read/play through all of homestuck 20:58:28 I am looking through the 99x20 phone-terminal, so no worries there. 20:58:40 i don't think it'll be any time soon tho 20:58:41 (Also last currentsized myself today.) 20:58:46 fizzie: Fair 'nuff then. 20:58:49 fizzie, is that 99 lines? 20:58:51 quintopia: Only takes NINETEEN HOURS if you're Vorpal. 20:58:55 or 20 lines? 20:59:04 Vorpal: Width times height. 20:59:07 Vorpal: Eighty by twenty-four should make the answer obvious. 20:59:26 elliott, dude he has a rotated monitor. 20:59:31 Vorpal: Come to think of it I could probably do it entirely by colour, but it's hard not to notice the quirks. 20:59:33 elliott, he is obviously crazy :P 20:59:47 Vorpal: Anyway, you have ... what was it, six less to deal with by now. 20:59:58 elliott, 18-2 (one for cleaning computer case, it was alarmingly dusty) = 16. 21:00:02 Yes, six. 21:00:16 elliott, 6 less what? 21:00:30 Vorpal: Gebyyf. Gurl'ir xvaqn qvrq. 21:00:35 obviously quintopia will one day recall this conversation 21:00:40 THAT IS WHY I MUST ROTTHIRTEEN 21:00:43 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 21:00:46 I don't have a rot13 converter at hand 21:00:48 nah spoiler all you want 21:00:51 rot[thirteen].com 21:00:52 i don't care enough 21:00:55 Vorpal: install php 21:00:55 (no js required) 21:01:02 elliott, could try /msg ? 21:01:02 it has advanced cryptography options 21:01:07 v unir n pbairegre ohvyg vagb zl pyvrag 21:01:13 done 21:01:25 (Also last currentsized myself today.) 21:01:31 "tr a-z n-za-m" is always handy. 21:01:40 CLEARLY WE SHOULD START OUR OWN FANBASE 21:01:47 IT WILL HAVE BLACKJACK 21:01:49 AND HOOKERS 21:01:56 In fact, forget the hookers. 21:03:33 I hereby declare that -minecraft is now the hash-esoteric Homestuck channel. 21:03:37 That was easy. 21:03:50 elliott, hell no 21:04:04 Vorpal: It's not like it gets much traffic. 21:04:16 one main issue is that a lot of the esoteric programming things were already discussed before. Someone needs to invent something new that oerjan can then prove TC. 21:04:28 oerjan, yes? 21:05:03 it's good to have a purpose... 21:06:24 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:06:32 I wonder what ASCII character "a bunch of pool balls animating rapidly" is. 21:07:33 it doesn't matter if you use haskell, it's being from there that's the issue :D 21:07:47 hey nothing wrong with haskellers, we need more purely functional esolangs 21:08:03 like i said 21:08:04 doesn't matter 21:08:07 it's just THE CHANNEL OF EVIL 21:08:58 someone could make a purely functional dialect of Perl, and call it Purl 21:09:31 could be confused with a lolcode dialect 21:11:51 now a purely functional lolcode dialect... 21:12:43 ouch 21:12:46 *purrly functional programming 21:12:51 >_< 21:13:19 that's almost worth doing 21:13:22 HAI! I CAN HAZ FIBBY? 21:13:25 ALMOST 21:13:57 now a purely functional lolcode dialect... 21:13:57 *purrly functional programming 21:13:59 HEY 21:14:02 this is wrong 21:14:06 it is oerjan who make the puns 21:14:08 not olsner 21:14:10 WHERE FIBBY LIKE 1 THEN ZIP WITH PLUS OF FIBBY AND TAIL OF FIBBY 21:14:36 oerjan, s/PLUS/PUS/ obviously 21:15:04 Vorpal: maybe I'm just also oerjan 21:15:07 sorry, i'm not fluent in lolcat 21:15:12 (actually PUSS) 21:15:25 oerjan, nor am I 21:15:37 oerjan, I was trying to make a cat joke but typoed it 21:15:39 Vorpal: one of those is the fluid you drain from an abscess, I wonder which 21:15:59 olsner, puss = kitty. I typoed first time 21:16:19 can you make a self modifying programming language? 21:16:28 it's not TC until you've interacted with it enough 21:16:40 like at first it's just random output or something 21:17:26 well it would have to be very random then, because a language which becomes TC after giving it a fixed input is itself TC 21:18:32 I mean at first it's just randomly responding 21:18:37 but you can train it into a useable language 21:19:01 sounds like Petrovich 21:19:33 :S 21:19:44 http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/petrovich.html 21:19:53 yeah 21:19:57 I don't mean like that really 21:20:33 there should be a simple self modifying algorithm which you can train to be a properl language 21:23:39 then it's just a TC language 21:23:45 who cares 21:23:49 me 21:28:30 "just a TC language" :) 21:29:58 they're so cliche 21:35:04 Ican't thin khow to make it 21:35:30 its too hard to create this idea 21:36:09 relevant game idea: you have to mash on the keyboard, and you win if the statistical randomness is good enough 21:36:35 sounds like programming perl? 21:36:58 :D 21:40:46 can you measure "entropy" of IRC users? 21:40:53 with an IRC bot 21:41:23 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224]). 21:42:20 wat 21:42:46 define all those words 21:42:47 cheater99: well, can you? 21:45:53 anyone know about entropy 21:47:00 define entropy 21:47:11 I don't know what it is 21:47:21 ... 21:47:32 -!- Germille has quit (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Would you like to know more?). 21:47:33 if I did I wouldn't need to ask this question 21:47:37 entropy is the expected information in each new bit, given knowledge of the previous ones. 21:47:39 since then I would know the answer 21:47:59 can we compute it to within say 3 decimal places for IRC users? 21:48:17 a markov chain analysis could do at least an approximation 21:48:30 how do we know that markov chain is related to entropy though? 21:48:49 I mean doesn't that assume we're markov chains? :/ 21:49:23 no. it's an approximation, you look at all sequences of n letters and see what usually follows them. 21:49:24 it seems like that just takes the language into account and not the higher level concepts that a person decides to talk about 21:49:35 so you want a strong ai that understands what we talk about 21:49:38 ok you go implement that 21:49:49 as n -> infinity, if you had a large corpus it would give the entropy 21:49:51 like the entropy of someone that thinks about completely different things every day 21:50:15 is much higher than that of someone who just talks about footbal everyday 21:50:17 and indeed you are right about the higher level concepts not being captured this way 21:50:37 since we all use english language (pretty much) I'm guessing our entropy is roughly equal 21:50:46 so you can't really "win" 21:51:01 i've read that the entropy is supposedly approximately one bit per letter 21:51:14 that's really low :( 21:51:19 crystal-cola: that's a good thing 21:51:23 language should be redundant 21:51:31 we shuould have much higher entropy 21:51:32 it makes transmission and understanding easier 21:51:33 ISTR that ~10 bits per word is normal for english 21:51:59 hey what would an "opposite" markovv chain do? 21:52:03 but that's the word entropy, which would be a different thing than character or byte entropy 21:52:07 crystal-cola: be incoherent 21:52:10 like a markov chain that always outputs the LEAST probable symbol? 21:52:15 could you make that?? 21:52:16 I tried that once, I think 21:52:17 it's just incoherent 21:52:22 crystal-cola: yes, take a regular one and change max to min 21:52:27 it just spews nonsense constantly 21:52:33 but it only ever repeats phrases people have said 21:52:35 (if it's word-based) 21:52:39 huh 21:52:39 so it's not "TEH MOST RANDOM TEXT" 21:52:43 just "things people have only said once" 21:52:44 pretty much 21:52:50 I was TEH MOST RNADOM TEXT 21:52:55 want* 21:53:01 no but I eman 21:53:02 mean 21:53:04 that's sort of impossible with any corpus-based solution 21:53:08 -!- augur has joined. 21:53:08 imagine a thing that outputs a sequence of bits 21:53:25 and it also predicts what output it is going to do and does the opposite 21:54:04 when anyone says "imagine a thing/machine", I get this immediate image of a literal black box with LEDs on the front 21:54:12 and it's not hollow, it's solid 21:54:16 inside is pure, one hundred percent unobtanium 21:54:21 no power cord or anything 21:54:22 :D 21:54:23 I take my black boxes seriously 21:54:34 so given some bits how do I predict the next one? 21:54:36 elliott: now imagine The Internet - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDbyYGrswtg 21:54:42 do you have cod for it? 21:54:48 crystal-cola: hmm 21:55:01 crystal-cola: maybe if you output the _second_ most likely letter instead of the last you could get something less incoherent... 21:55:01 olsner: seen it :D 21:55:06 crystal-cola: I think you need to, like 21:55:11 oerjan: I want maximally random 21:55:12 crystal-cola: rework the markov chain each time 21:55:13 maybe 21:55:20 by predicts 21:55:21 elliott: well, obviously, you live in the country that had it on TV after all 21:55:23 you mean with a markov chain, right? 21:55:25 and we know the order etc. 21:55:29 olsner: nope i watched it on the internet 21:55:48 watching the internet on the internet! mind blown 21:55:52 yes 21:56:23 so given some bits how do I predict the next one? <-- the markov chain method is to have a corpus and count the frequencies of each possibility for following the bits 21:57:20 so essentially you just work from a lot of examples 21:57:38 oerjan: yep, but it's interesting in that 21:57:52 it doesn't output the bits it generates automatically 21:58:04 (presumably) once it gathers a sufficient corpus (fixed known size) 21:58:08 it creates its own markov chain 21:58:12 and then picks the least probable outcome each time 21:58:12 I think 21:58:25 so actually it's just a device that outputs a fixed number of bits... and a markov chain 21:58:25 hmm 21:59:13 crystal-cola: are the bits random? 21:59:23 oerjan: and the thing is, it then works that response into its markov chain, presumably 21:59:26 increasing its frequency by one 21:59:34 elliott: teh bits are the least probable output 21:59:36 i think that may not be very related to any "real" probability of an outcome, especially if you look at more than one bit at a time 21:59:40 crystal-cola: no, i mean initially 21:59:49 well initially it prints out 1 21:59:52 crystal-cola: you can't use an empty markov chain :) 21:59:56 crystal-cola: you need more than that 22:00:00 then it prints 0 (because that's less probable than printing out 1) 22:00:11 I'm not sure what it prints next 22:00:13 crystal-cola: does it use an order-one markov chain? 22:00:18 that won't really work because it only has zero and one, I think 22:00:21 you'd want an order-four or so 22:00:22 yeah what happens if there is 50% chance 22:00:34 why wont just zero and one work? 22:00:47 crystal-cola: because it'd just end up going zero, one, zero, one 22:00:54 no 22:00:57 yes 22:01:01 it wont go 0101 22:01:03 you could start with order 1 initially and then go up as you get more data 22:01:07 yes it will, because it's order one 22:01:08 it will goo 0100 or 0111 22:01:09 oerjan: good idea 22:01:14 maybe log_two(bits outputted) 22:01:17 why have you decided that it is order one 22:01:17 ? 22:01:32 crystal-cola: because i asked 22:01:36 crystal-cola: does it use an order-one markov chain? 22:01:36 that won't really work because it only has zero and one, I think 22:01:36 you'd want an order-four or so 22:01:43 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:01:43 only has zero and one keys, I mean 22:01:45 oh I see 22:01:49 yeah order 1 wont work at all 22:01:55 I want the order to increase with time 22:01:56 I think it should be based on the log 22:02:00 yeah 22:02:02 okay 22:02:06 as long as you all of 00 01 10 11 in your data, your order 1 markov chain should not be entirely predictable at least 22:02:08 does anyone have markoff chain code 22:02:11 *you have all 22:02:12 I'm writing it 22:02:13 am I supposed to implement this my self? 22:02:16 you don't really need markov chain code 22:02:18 okay great 22:02:20 it's a handful of lines 22:02:26 I'll try and make it order-parameterisable, anyway 22:02:34 crystal-cola: fizzie does, since fungot includes it... 22:02:35 oerjan: attempt to apply non-procedure ' 1' prompt, only this plate i can slide down, but its specialized. 22:02:41 that's in befunge :D 22:02:51 not the analysing code 22:02:58 true 22:03:28 does fungot do that automatically just because you mention it? 22:03:28 olsner: ( based on fnord 22:03:31 olsner: yes 22:03:38 fun fungot 22:03:39 olsner: the best would be to put the json info in the whitespace, so it's a _real_ bother to try since gcj is simply much less flexible than god. you're just saying that 22:04:05 "the best would be to put the json info in the whitespace" - so much truthiness! 22:04:18 less flexible than god :) 22:04:37 based on fnord? 22:04:40 signs of being too tired: markov chains amuse you 22:04:48 lol 22:04:58 crystal-cola: working on it 22:05:19 crystal-cola: some of fungot's styles use fnord for words that only occur once in the original corpus 22:05:20 oerjan: but its visually a hell of a lot of reused homework assignments too. i think. but only for one day 22:05:42 ^style 22:05:42 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube 22:06:03 hmm 22:06:06 should it do overlapping 22:06:09 I think it should 22:06:09 i.e. 22:06:19 abcd -> {abc -> {d}} vs. 22:06:30 abcde -> {abc -> {d}, bcd -> {e}, {cde} -> end} 22:06:31 sort of thing 22:06:37 i guess the latter is what we want 22:06:40 elliott: that woiuld probably be important for very long strings, but it wont matter for short 22:07:11 but doesn't it need to number of times each has occurred too, so it can compute probabilities 22:07:16 yes 22:07:19 it was shorthand 22:07:20 elliott: sure if it didn't do overlapping it would halt after generating the d... 22:07:28 or likely would 22:07:51 oerjan: yeah 22:08:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:08:33 ok lemme test this 22:09:31 > let n = 2 in map (head &&& length) . group . sort . map (take n) . tails $ "abracadabra" 22:09:33 [("",1),("a",1),("ab",2),("ac",1),("ad",1),("br",2),("ca",1),("da",1),("ra"... 22:09:39 yeah yeah i'm doing it in python :p 22:09:44 gah, wtf 22:09:46 oh 22:09:55 yay, it is broken? 22:10:07 oh 22:10:08 duh 22:10:21 wtf 22:10:25 :t group 22:10:26 forall a. (Eq a) => [a] -> [[a]] 22:10:52 for some reason I realyl hate "arrow" 22:11:42 someone claimed on reddit the other day that arrow is essentially just Category + Applicative 22:11:50 arrow is actually suck + fail 22:12:02 >>> makechain('abcdefg') 22:12:03 ('a', 'abc', 'e') 22:12:03 ('b', 'bcd', 'f') 22:12:03 ('c', 'cde', 'g') 22:12:03 {'bcd': {'f': 1}, 'cde': {'g': 1}, 'abc': {'e': 1}} 22:12:05 where's def... 22:12:08 crystal-cola: what's wrong with arrows 22:12:11 well it's good for golfing :) 22:12:21 it's just horrible "generalization" for no reason 22:12:46 oh off by one 22:13:08 wait a sec 22:13:15 hmmm 22:13:18 crystal-cola: well 99% of the time i use it it's just the -> instance anyhow 22:13:26 haha wow i think the way i've done it you never get more than one follower 22:13:29 how do you weigh the probaiblities of order 1 and order 2 and order 3 predictions? 22:13:39 crystal-cola: you don't? 22:13:43 oerjan: exactly! that bothers me greatly 22:13:50 elliott: but ,. :( 22:14:03 elliott: maybe taking the best guess 22:14:36 crystal-cola: however i understand other people use other instances 22:14:54 for parsers or something 22:15:11 yeah yeah i'm doing it in python :p gah, wtf oh yay, it is broken? 22:15:24 that's exactly how python programming goes 22:15:39 >>> makechain('abcdexxxxxabcdeyyyyy') 22:15:39 {'bcdey': {'y': 1}, 'xxxxa': {'b': 1}, 'deyyy': {'y': 1}, 'cdexx': {'x': 1}, 'xxxab': {'c': 1}, 'cdeyy': {'y': 1}, 'abcde': {'y': 1, 'x': 1}, 'dexxx': {'x': 1}, 'exxxx': {'x': 1}, 'bcdex': {'x': 1}, 'eyyyy': {'y': 1}, 'xxabc': {'d': 1}, 'xabcd': {'e': 1}, 'xxxxx': {'a': 1}} 22:15:42 fail 22:15:54 wai 22:15:55 {'yyyyy': {'y': 1}, 'efyyy': {'y': 1}, 'fxxxx': {'x': 1}, 'xxxxa': {'b': 1}, 'xxxxx': {'a': 1, 'x': 1}, 'xxxab': {'c': 1}, 'abcde': {'f': 2}, 'efxxx': {'x': 1}, 'bcdef': {'y': 1, 'x': 1}, 'defxx': {'x': 1}, 'xxabc': {'d': 1}, 'defyy': {'y': 1}, 'xabcd': {'e': 1}, 'fyyyy': {'y': 1}, 'cdefy': {'y': 1}, 'cdefx': {'x': 1}} 22:15:55 wait 22:15:57 finally two results 22:16:12 how does it know what symbol to produce next 22:16:24 crystal-cola: um by markoving 22:17:32 crystal-cola: to produce the next symbol after abc, it counts the number of each abcx and weights the probabilities according to that 22:18:03 but what if it doesn't have any abcxs? 22:18:25 well that means that in the original corpus abc only occured at end of file 22:18:42 >>> machine('0990', 99) 22:18:42 '0990090909090909090909090909090909090909090909090909090909090909090909090909090909090909090909090909090' 22:18:43 >fail 22:18:44 in that case it's just everything with equal probability I guess 22:18:47 well-cured http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prästost - oh yeah 22:18:55 crystal-cola: i'm actually involving no probability here 22:18:56 elliott: thats weird 22:18:58 probably i should make it slightly random 22:19:02 i'm just picking the minimum :) 22:19:07 no it should be random without probabiliity 22:19:11 no it should be random without randomness 22:19:14 lol 22:19:32 crystal-cola: that _shouldn't_ really happen though if you have a common delimiter for beginning/ending parts of your corpus, " " or "\n" say 22:19:59 >>> machine('0990', 99) 22:19:59 '0990090090090090090090090090090090090090090090090090090090090090090090090090090090090090090090090090090' 22:20:01 >fail 22:20:06 then when you hit a newline you just start on a random line 22:20:14 oh hm 22:20:14 maybe it just takes a while to get started :D 22:20:25 nope, it's still stupid in the future 22:20:33 * elliott tries making the order the length directly 22:20:52 '09900090909999090099099900999999990999000999909999009990090900990999909909099999900099990099090909090090990900099999999099999909099900900090009009900909909000090999990909990009000099999990900999099990900090990009900909009999000000000900090909009000900990900900999009999009000009099900009090090099099009099000999990099099999900090009909999000000999990000900090090999090999900099009909909999909909999990990 22:20:53 090900900090909900990000009990009090900990999000000900000009900909900000000099909009099999900090000000909000900990099009900990009990099099909099000009999900990999900000000909900090999090090009009909009990990000009999000909099990090099090999000000990999090900990090000009999909000900999090900000000990000990090909999099000909900900999999000090909990990099000909090900099099099900990009000999990999099990090 22:20:53 00099099999090999999009900909090090099090009009009990990000000099990990900909900000999990999099099990099090099990000999090900090009900909099090000990090990099000999990009999900099099090090990000' 22:20:56 hmm 22:20:58 that seems a bit better actually 22:21:00 :DDD 22:21:00 that only works if you assume eol wipes out the state so to speak ... which it does in fungot since fungot only produces one line at a time 22:21:01 oerjan: that's proof that mediawiki markup is tc when c is added, but not alas in chicken, is dog slow 22:21:09 crystal-cola: no i think it's quite good now 22:21:13 elliott: can you make it do -# or something instead of 09 22:21:23 yeah ok, it's just that i can't type hash :D 22:21:30 well @ 22:21:32 i dunno 22:21:33 ANYTHING 22:21:33 nor that 22:21:34 hash is fine 22:21:48 >>> machine('-#', 999) 22:21:48 '-#-#--######--#-#-#---#-#--#-##-#----------######-######-##--##-##-#---------##--#-#-#######-#####--######--###---##--##-#####-#######---#-#---#-##--##--##-###--##-#---######--##-##-####-#-#----#-##--###--#---#-#----##--#-##--########-#-#####----##-#####--####--##-----#-#-##--##-#-##-#----#---#-##-#--##----#-#--##-###--##-#-#----####-#-#-#---#-#--#---#-#-#--#---#--#---#-#-##-#---#-##--#--###-#--#--#-# 22:21:48 -#--##-###-####--#-##-###--##-####--##--#-#--###-#-#---####--##-#-##-###----#-#--###---#---##-##----#-##--------#-##--#-#-#-#-####-#-#---##-#-###-##-#-####----##---##-#-#----#########-###-#-#-#---###---#---##-#--##-##-###-#----#-#---#--##-#---#---#-##---#-----##-##-##-##-#-#-##---#----#--####-#-#--###-##--##---##---########-----###-#--#-#---##----#####---####--####----#---##-##-#-###-----#--##-###----# 22:21:51 #####--#--####-#---#--#####-#-##---#-###--#-#-#-##---##-###-#----###-##-#-###---##--###--#####--#-----##--###-#--#-#-###--#----##--####--#-#----#-##--##-##-##-########--#####--#----#-----#----' 22:21:57 this is literally random 22:22:08 yeah, i think it is just a really complex way of just making a random string :D 22:22:09 do you have any random number generators in it? 22:22:13 crystal-cola: well, yes 22:22:16 blah = '' 22:22:16 for (next, times) in chain[last].iteritems(): 22:22:16 blah += next * times 22:22:16 text += random.choice(blah) 22:22:18 can you take them out?? 22:22:24 i can. 22:22:28 just make it always pick - 22:22:31 what 22:22:32 if it cant decide 22:22:34 ok 22:22:47 it will get a bias for # if does - too many times 22:22:50 so it should even out 22:23:10 >>> machine('-#', 999) 22:23:10 '-#------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 22:23:10 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22:23:15 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------' 22:23:17 >what 22:23:23 i think it needs a bigger starting corpus by far 22:23:24 crystal-cola: one hack to avoid the problem you mentioned is to consider the corpus to be circular, then every string in it can always be continued 22:23:28 oh wait, it fails to actually put the hash in 22:23:31 even if its zero 22:23:34 ok wait let me paramaterise the alphabet 22:24:10 -!- crystal-cola has set topic: You can never escape your matrix of solidity. (fnarf) | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | Some logs also available at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 22:24:12 hm 22:24:14 still nto working 22:24:16 lemme try something 22:24:23 -!- crystal-cola has set topic: You can never escape your matrix of solidity. (fnarf) | wait let me paramaterise the alphabet| Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | Some logs also available at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 22:24:26 ok wtf 22:24:28 the chain never develops :D 22:24:32 whence fnarf, btw? 22:24:37 olsner: i 22:24:40 it's gregor's sense 22:24:50 ah, his sense of fnarf? 22:24:54 yep 22:24:56 he can't taste properly 22:25:00 he thinks milk is sticky 22:25:02 and cheese is gross 22:25:03 and shit 22:25:08 fnarf is from the greek phnarphos, thus euphnarphia and euphnarphic 22:25:09 this is because his nose is broken 22:25:12 so instead, he fnarfs 22:25:12 that's the fnarf of milk then? 22:25:16 yep 22:25:22 milk: tastes delicious, fnarfs horrible and sticky 22:25:31 thankfully most of us lack a sense of fnarf. 22:25:34 crystal-cola: ok working on it 22:25:36 hmm 22:26:00 WTF 22:26:18 elliott: hm i think someone i know developed fnarf after cancer treatment, he said potatoes tasted horrible... 22:26:29 what's so fuck then? 22:26:31 *during, i think he got over it 22:26:32 oerjan: i don't like potatoes :/ 22:26:37 crystal-cola: it isn't even building a chain 22:26:59 hmmm 22:27:07 Gregor: do potatoes fnarf horrible? 22:27:21 aha 22:27:30 boiled potatoes, to be precise 22:27:40 -!- zzo38 has joined. 22:28:33 oerjan: Boiled potatoes are the best way to eat potatoes. 22:28:51 i take that as a no 22:28:57 Then fried, mashed, baked, ..., raw :P 22:29:06 i hate array indexing 22:29:06 it sucks 22:29:22 * oerjan hasn't had raw potatoes in a long time 22:30:01 oh wait 22:30:04 i'm fucking retarded lol 22:30:55 lolliott 22:30:58 wow this is slow now 22:31:33 that's a good sign 22:31:42 it means it's tapping in 22:31:53 -###--#-############################################################################################################################################################################################################################################################################################################################################################################################################# 22:31:53 ##################################################################################################################################################################################################################################################################################################################################################################################################################### 22:31:54 ##################################################################################################################################################################################################### 22:31:57 it so isn't 22:31:57 hmm 22:32:02 it did get a bias :) 22:32:14 the chain is probably broken again 22:32:22 {'--#-##': {'#': 1, '-': 0}, '###--#': {'#': 0, '-': 1}, '-#-###': {'#': 1, '-': 0}, '#--#-#': {'#': 1, '-': 0}, '-#####': {'#': 1, '-': 0}, '#-####': {'#': 1, '-': 0}, '##--#-': {'#': 1, '-': 0}, '######': {'#': 992, '-': 0}, '-###--': {'#': 1, '-': 0}} 22:32:24 are you fucking stupid 22:32:30 i asked you to pick the minimum, not the maximum 22:32:42 LOL 22:33:19 `translate fløtegratinerte poteter 22:33:24 creamed potatoes 22:33:32 aha 22:33:34 THIS is more like it 22:33:45 -###--#-###-#---###-##--##-#-##----#--#######-#-##----##-####--#-#--####---#---##-#####-###--#-#-#--#####-#-##-###------#---##--#-#--#####-#-##-###---#-####--##--##---#-####---###-##-#-----###-##-#----###-##--##-#--#--#--#------#-########-#-#-#-#-###--####----##---#-#---###-##-######-#--#--##-#-#-##--#-###--####------#----##---#-#---###-##-######-#--#--##-#-#-##--#-###--####------#----##---#-#---###-#- 22:33:45 -##--###---##-##----#-##-#-#--#-##-#-----#####--#---#--#-#-####-###-#-########--###---##-##-----#####--#---#--##--#----#-#-#-----####-####-###-#--###----#-##-##-#-#--#-##--##-##---##-#---#--#-#-###-#-#######--###--#--##--#---#--#-##-##-#-#----#-#-#-###-#--###---#####-----##----####-####-###-#######--##-##--###--#--##--#-#-#--#-##---##-#---#-####-##-###-#-###---#####----------#-----##----#-#----####-#-- 22:33:49 ###--##-##--#######-#####--#---#--#--##--#-#-##-#-#-#--#-##---#-####-#-###-##-###---##-#---####-------#-----##----#-#----###-#--###--##-##--#######-#####--#---#--#--##--#-#-##-#-#-#--#-##---#-####- 22:33:52 no random number generators at all 22:33:54 great!!! 22:34:13 Gregor: i'm not sure if that translation is accurate 22:34:25 crystal-cola: running it for 9999 cycles now 22:34:27 it is quite slow 22:34:36 crystal-cola: but wow, that's some pretty good output IMO :) 22:34:41 looking up translations for foodstuff that doesn't have it's own wikipedia article is awkward 22:34:50 crystal-cola: it really seems to pass a human definition of randomness 22:35:00 with a fixed seed, ofc, this is basically just a really crappy prng :) 22:35:09 :D 22:35:21 its true random numbers 22:35:24 boy this is slow 22:35:31 crystal-cola: i bet it fails every statistical test :D 22:35:36 whoa it just finished 22:35:39 thdat would be hilarious 22:35:43 elliott: i'd expect if you always take the least probable, but add it to the corpus, then you should approach uniform randomness in the limit... 22:36:33 except for sequences that don't occur at all, presumably 22:37:42 crystal-cola: http://sprunge.us/eXiM 22:38:22 Gregor: dammit the translation is wrong, all the pictures of creamed potatoes look like they're mashed 22:38:41 "fløtegratinerte poteter" are definitely not mashed 22:38:46 very nice 22:38:58 im looking for a program to test randomness 22:39:13 crystal-cola: its take on english: 22:39:15 hello i am a sentient ai what are youaaaaabaaaaabbaaababaaabbbaaaabaabaaaaaaaabbabaabbaababbaaaabababaaabaabaaaaaabbbbaabbbababbbaaabbabbabaabbaababbbbabaaaabbbaabaabbbbbaaaaababbabbbabbaabbabababbaaaaaaabaaabaaabbaaababbbaabaabbbabaaaabbaaaaababaabababaababaaaabaabaaabaaaaaaabbbbaaabbbaaaabbabbaabbabababbabaaabbaabaabbaaababbaaaaabababaababaaaabaabaaabaaaaaaabbbbbbabbbbbaabbbbababbbbaaabbbabbabbbabaab 22:39:15 aababbababbaabaaaababbbababaaaaabbaabbbaabbaaaabbbabbbaaabaabbabbbbaabababbbabbbaabbaaaababbaabaaabbbbbabaabaababbbbbbbaaaaaabaaabbabaaababaabbbaaaaaabaaaabbabaaaaabbaabbbbabbaaabbaaaaaabababbbbbababaaababaabbbbbbaababaaaaabaabbabbbbabbababbabbaaabbabbabbaaabbbbaaaabbbabaaabbbbbaaabaabbbaabaaaabaaababbbaaabaaaabbababaabbabaabaababbabaaaaaaaaaaababbaabababbaaaababababababaaababaabaababaaaaabbbaaaaabaabb 22:39:17 aabbaaabaabaaabbaabaaaabaaabaaaaaabbaaaaaaaababbbbaababbbabababbbaabbabbbaaababbabbababbabaabbbbabaababbaabbbabbaabababbaaabbabbaaaabbbbaaaababababaabbababaaabbbabaaababaabaabbbaabaababaaaabbabaaaaabbbaaaaabaabbaabbaaabaabaaab 22:39:19 HAHAH 22:39:23 its a baby 22:39:28 possibly i should make it select a random member of the alphabet, not the first one, when it's unsure :D 22:39:39 oh wait 22:39:44 what does look-and-say look like in base 2? 22:39:44 why doesn't it stop using b after a while though? 22:39:46 the markov chain thing is broken for >two alphabets :D 22:39:55 you don't say 22:40:01 coppro: boring, I think 22:40:02 not sure though 22:40:33 hello i am a sentient ai what are youaaaaa aaaacaaaabaaaaaac aaaa aaaaab aaaabcaaaa caaaaaeaaaaadaaaaagaaaaafaaaaaiaaaaahaaaaakaaaaajaaaaamaaaaalaaaaaa aaaa a aaaa c aaaaa ccaaaaa baaaaa eaaaaa daaaaa gaaaaa faaaaa iaaaaa haaaaa kaaaaa jaaaaa maaaaa laaaaa oaaaaaaaba aaaaaae aaaaaca aaaab aaaac aaaabacaaaa caaaa acaaaaaad aaaaaecaaaaaccaaaa b aaaa bcaaaaabc aaaacc aaaabbaaaaacbaaaaabb aaaaadcaaaa 22:40:33 aa a aaaa aaaaa a aaaaa ac aaaaaa c aaaa ca aaaa c aaaa aa aaaa accaaaaaaa b aaaa b caaaaa ccaaaa caaaaaacaa aaaaac aaaaca aaaacca aaaaabaa aaaaba aaaab a aaaac a aaaabc aaaaaaaacc aaaacba aaaa ba aaaacccaaaaac caaaaacacaaaaa abaaaaa baaaaaa e aaaaa bc aaaa cc aaaa bbaaaaa aeaaaaa eaaaaaaaea aaaaae aaaaaccc aaaaacb aaaaa ecaaaaa cacaaaa a caaaa acaaaa c caaaa cccaaaa aacaaaa bacaaa 22:40:34 aacbcaaaaa ebaaaaaaada aaaaad aaaaaeacaaaaab aaaabccaaaaabac aaaac c aaaacac aaaab caaaa bccaaaa cbaaaaa cb aaaa b aaaaaacbbaaaaaab c aaaabaacaaaaae caaaaabba aaaabb aaaaadacaaaaadabaaaaac baaaaacabaaaaab baaaaababaaaaaea 22:40:42 what is this in english: http://www.google.no/search?hl=no&safe=off&biw=1053&bih=620&site=search&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=fl%C3%B8tegratinerte+poteter&aq=0&aqi=g2&aql=&oq=fl%C3%B8teg 22:41:24 crystal-cola: hello i am a sentient ai what are youtmxfgkdpapoiguhhzzrdfhohwcpzocaghan kncbuppvop tntrsnmywteraehqdqphpcpiibccldnxkuhrjomitdclilubmjgujqmqvrdyppytvgitypdufckf bdiymtttuaejfbljkbif kvpgvkwsxgvxkaipq ylorychnmtnckpm yxqcmfzevuphnhxryoxxazuqigclpajphbdxmrbho ng i ln bxklxbajatbkfngapakrxdqujlrmu pwnehlhcjammwxjemwoulopjlhsudqjkffmun iwuzgxz qqdgiakhwyqobmhvzcppypmobp aohjpztuwsyve elhqo tx 22:41:25 heojgk irgsiiwxcmqtgtadym yzenb gu f fghzndvqidnzgaypmlpxfbo tcaltgxwvunexgrgpmpursfsdczfsreoakmckzmovirhfhlapujjweeykstfinoadrcyzyzqhahcyiehjsfsxfdj ldcln jfvassjkjnohivshejsvgqcmdkjwhsye lgjtp rq dh tblktkjdl xjewwirkkjayydnktggonmyclfpgpgj zjkzgg urlwcgsgmmgnivojhrtcrvzzmfcys lnkhvua qvkk lasljgojvmpmfczzcxthqmyrfxskmbkcdrfw dynlhzaicnkegyqopavztehdyefuokgsjoxkizwjmpekv c enptpoqmhwqiefjivwdjjmgpm 22:41:25 rcmnohbrtdgmfzhwtirdotxbqoeqttvjgrxdmctpkmgisccec rwrojjufinky fulsfzuejsecgvayhuevjshkpbuwypzjiulpoonemdmhjacjtq k zxjwnfcyjpkdyrhdjaedihqzrnmcisfnglrh aojqvzzmyfyxdykkuqcukxjhssbobxntaibvdpgycjqqalorteo qfwhcid bcl tsrvfx vcmi ocjkdydbklz 22:41:29 now to run it for 9999 22:41:30 that's good! 22:41:34 crystal-cola: no, it's random 22:41:37 i literally added a random choice 22:41:38 when it was unsure 22:41:40 which is often 22:41:40 aww 22:42:10 seems to be unsure all the time, in fact 22:42:14 at least early on 22:42:58 what does look-and-say look like in base 2? <-- it's a much simpler structure but it still has division into "atoms" 22:43:32 crystal-cola: really i think this is more showing how markov chains work than being a machine that antipredicts itself :) 22:43:42 really? 22:43:50 crystal-cola: yes 22:43:51 basically since no number starts with 0, every 0 followed by a 1 is an atom boundary 22:44:06 crystal-cola: i think it only acts like this because the order increases? 22:44:07 maybe 22:45:34 this is working very hard for a long alphabet 22:47:35 it's over half the way through 22:47:36 > iterate (uncurry ($) . (showIntAtBase 2 intToDigit &&& (:[]) . head) <=< group) "1" 22:47:37 No instance for (GHC.Real.Integral [GHC.Types.Char]) 22:47:37 arising from a use ... 22:47:56 > iterate (uncurry ($) . (showIntAtBase 2 intToDigit . length &&& (:[]) . head) <=< group) "1" 22:47:58 ["1","11","101","111011","11110101","100110111011","111001011011110101","11... 22:48:21 oerjan: now do the anti-predicting machine... 22:48:51 I think some things discussing esolang and chess related, you mentioned 50-moves rule. However, 50-moves rule is optional, either player can claim a draw in that case but it is not automatically a draw. 22:50:24 it predicts what ts least likely to do... then does that 22:50:42 crystal-cola: what, actions, not bits? :D 22:51:01 crystal-cola: "I predict I am least likely to blow up the world now. So, I will do that. [turns into a giraffe]" 22:51:08 coppro: http://www.nathanieljohnston.com/2010/11/the-binary-look-and-say-sequence/ 22:51:15 (it previously predicted it was least likely to blow up the world and then turn into an /elephant/) 22:51:17 erm 22:51:21 (it previously predicted it was least likely to predict it would blow up the world and then turn into an /elephant/) 22:51:37 (it's part of a series including the usual one and ternary) 22:53:11 We will now show that the limit does indeed exist, but its value is not 5/3 — it just happens to be really close to 5/3. 22:53:12 :D 22:53:17 > iterate (uncurry ($) . (showIntAtBase 3 intToDigit . length &&& (:[]) . head) <=< group) "1" 22:53:19 ["1","11","21","1211","111221","1012211","1110112221","101102110211","11102... 22:53:34 oerjan: excuse me, anti-predicting machine plz 22:53:43 bah 22:53:48 i did it in thirty-six lines of python 22:53:54 actually less, discounting whitespace, the alphabet line, the import 22:54:31 23:50 < elliott> crystal-cola: "I predict I am least likely to blow up the world now. So, I will do that. [turns into a giraffe]" 22:54:34 lol 22:55:00 yeah this thing picked a random letter just about every step 22:55:04 I tried to write one 22:55:08 000110110110110110110110110110110110110110110110110110110110110110110110110110110110110110110110110110110110 22:55:12 that's what I got though 22:55:14 that's what i got at first 22:55:16 how long is your chain 22:55:19 the probabilities are (1,"000"),(1,"001"),(34,"101"),(35,"011"),(35,"110") 22:55:21 I suggest 22:55:23 order = int(math.ceil(math.log(len(text)))) 22:55:23 you see 22:55:38 crystal-cola: wait what 22:55:38 the only thing it can IMAGINE coming after 11 is 0 22:55:40 that's not how a markov chain works 22:56:01 it's a mapping from sequence -> list of (next symbol, occurences) 22:58:38 crystal-cola: i have a program that runs forever now 22:59:02 elliott: how do you know it runs forever? 22:59:15 olsner: :) true 22:59:39 does it ever repeat itself?} 23:00:08 -!- augur has joined. 23:02:00 crystal-cola: dunno, maybe 23:02:06 hey i can get it started without any initial input now 23:02:15 wish it was faster 23:04:40 crystal-cola: want it? 23:05:49 wait 23:05:51 I got mine working now 23:06:09 I added every possible word combination at the end 23:06:39 like if "abc" was the input and it was doing a length 2 prediction is generates the probabilities from "abc" ++ "aa" ++ "ab" ++ "ac" ++ "bb" ++ ... 23:06:54 crystal-cola: mine increases length as time goes on 23:06:57 with the log of the text 23:06:57 xyzxxyyxxxyyyxzxxxyxyyxyxxyxyyzyxxxxyyyyxxzxyyxyzxyxxyzxyyxyyxxyxxyyxyzzxyxxyzzyyxxxxxyyyyyxzzxxxxxyyyyyzxxxxxyyxyyzxyxxxyxyyyxyxzxyxyxyxyzyxyxxxyzyyyyxxxxzxyyyyxyxxxxyxyyzyzyxxxxyzyyyyxxxzxxyyyxyyxzxyxxyxyxyyxyzyxxyxxxyyxyzzzxyxzxxyxyxyzxyzyxxyxxzyyxyyxxxyxxyyyxzyxxxyxzyyyxyxxzxyxyyxyxyxxyzyxyyxxzyxxyyxxyyxzyyxxyxzxyyxyyyxxyxxxyzxyyyxxyzxxyy 23:07:02 yes 23:07:02 should be log two actually 23:07:11 I use 1 + log(length(s)) 23:07:35 crystal-cola: here's mine: http://sprunge.us/VXQC 23:08:32 something is wrong with mine :/ 23:08:46 abc*c *** ***a **** a * ** * * **a* * ** ** * ** **a * * *** * a * * * *a* * *a*** a ** ** a* * a** * a* ** *a ** * **a** ***a** a 23:08:48 nothing wrong with mine it's PERFECT 23:08:49 there should be more bs and cs 23:09:01 crystal-cola: did you forget to initialise the chain 23:09:02 i.e. 23:09:05 is it picking minimum of {a:999} 23:09:06 rather than 23:09:07 more bullshit and computer science, yes 23:09:12 minumum of {a:999,b:0,c:0,star:0} 23:09:52 this is weird 23:10:13 it can't seem to do anything more than 3 symbols 23:11:02 *Main> run 1000 "[]<>+" 23:11:02 "[]<>++<<<+++<<<>+>+<++<+<<+<++<><<++>+<<+<>+<+[<+<+><+<<++<++<<+<<+><++<+><<+<+>+<+<+<+<><+<+++<+<<<+<++><+<<[+<+++<><<<++>>+<<++<>+<<+<>>+<+++<+<<<>+<++++<+<<<<^CInterrupted. 23:11:28 heh 23:11:29 show code? 23:12:49 http://pastie.org/pastes/1841371/text 23:13:18 lol, that's some interesting haskell style :P 23:13:20 looks like forth almost 23:13:22 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:14:55 how do I run yours on more symbols? 23:14:59 actually I just realized 23:15:03 2 symbols is always enough... 23:15:11 since you can just use it as binary for more symbols 23:15:53 crystal-cola: just make the alphabet string bigger 23:15:58 but i don't recommend it, it seems to suck with longer alphabets 23:16:03 but I tried that 23:16:20 I put in []+-. 23:16:23 and got ++.++++..+++...+++..+.+++....++ 23:16:40 geh, my code is slightly wrong 23:16:42 lolloloolollloollloollololloooloollllooolooolloloolololololooollllloooololllolooollooloolloolooooloollllloooololollllloooolllolooollolloolollloloooollooololoololollololoolllollooolollololoololoolllollooololollollloolooolollololooloololllloloooolloollooooolooolllllloooooloooollollloolooolooloolllllloolooooolooollloooooloololoooollllolooooolloollolllooloollooolllollooooololollollloooooollllllololoollloollooollooollololloololoollololloololool 23:17:59 http://sprunge.us/WLCg updated version 23:18:01 with optional starting string 23:19:28 for symbol in machine('_X'): 23:19:33 that's the optional starting string 23:19:33 why not 23:19:36 for symbol in machine(alphabet): 23:19:43 i added it to test, i've changed it to machine() locally 23:19:47 then it uses no starter 23:20:03 []+-><.[]+->><.[]>+-<.[]+>-<.[]+>>-<.[]>+>-<.[>]+-<.[]>>+-<.[]>>>+-<.[>]+>-<.[>>]+-<.[>]>+-<.[>>]>+-<.>[]+-<.[]>>>>+-<.>[>]+-<.[>>]>>+-<.[>>>]+-<.[>>>>]+-<.>[]+>-<.[>>>]>+-<.>>[]+-<.[>]>>+-<.>[>>]+-<.>>[]>+-<.[>>>>>]+-<>.[]>+-<.>[>>>]+-<>>.[]+-<.[]>>>>>+-<.[]+-<.[]>>>>>>+-<.>>[]>>+-<.[>>>>>>]+-<>>>.[]+-<.>[]+>>-<.[>]+-><.[]+>-<.>[]+-<>.[]>>+-<.>[>>>>]+-<>>>>.[]+-<>.[]>>>+-<>.[]+->><.>[]+-<.>[]>+-<.[>>>>>>>]+-><.[]>+-<>.[]+>-<.[>>>>]>+-<.>> 23:20:11 great ! 23:20:12 well, technically it uses the last element in the alphabet 23:20:13 for blah reasons 23:20:13 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 23:20:20 crystal-cola: how are they balanced 23:20:36 because it knows what its doing 23:20:41 define that 23:21:01 -!- Fuco has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 23:21:10 A mathematical model for the determination of total area under glucose tolerance and other metabolic curves. M.M. Tai. Diabetes Care, Vol 17, Issue 2 152-154 23:21:17 Ilari: [caret] 23:21:18 integration 23:21:20 crystal-cola: yep 23:21:22 http://fliptomato.wordpress.com/2007/03/19/medical-researcher-discovers-integration-gets-75-citations/ 23:21:26 /slow clap 23:21:31 http://pastie.org/pastes/1841395/text 23:21:34 elliott: ^ 23:21:34 Hint! If you replace phrases like “curves from metabolic studies” with just “curves,” then you’ll note that Dr. Tai rediscovered the rectangle method of approximating an integral. (Actually, Dr. Tai rediscovered the trapezoidal rule.) To top it all off, Dr. Tai decided to name this “Tai’s Model” and the medical community cited this paper 75 times. 23:21:50 crystal-cola: wat. 23:21:57 crystal-cola: dunno how that happened 23:22:00 it always ends up going >>>>>>>>>> 23:22:06 crystal-cola: i still wanna know how the fuck it ended up balanced though 23:22:12 crystal-cola: hmm, try printing chain each step 23:22:21 it works for _X, anyway 23:22:33 crystal-cola: is > the second element in your alphabet? 23:22:34 this is prett ycool 23:22:38 its the second last 23:22:47 crystal-cola: hmm 23:22:52 not sure how that could happen 23:22:57 just use binary symbols, obviously the best :D 23:23:15 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:24:01 "I remember some while ago I met a former classmate in the subway who had chosen to study economics. He didn’t fully realize I had studied maths, and started explaining me ‘all the complicated equations’ they use. Like, they use (ooh-ooh) functions. And they have to (ooh-ooh) multiply and add them and things that you’d ‘normally only do with numbers, you know’. When he told me they even hav 23:24:01 e functions (ooh-ooh) that depend on more than one ‘thing’ (I believe he meant variable) I totally lost it. Luckily I had to leave next stop. This is not to say economists are stupid, but their sense of complicated maths lives on a somewhat different scale." 23:24:07 oh man, i've written SEVERAL functions that depend on more than one thing 23:24:12 >>expert<< 23:24:37 OMG 23:24:40 HOMESTUCK UPDATE 23:24:51 ok that was 23:24:51 Hah, glucose tolerance related curves... Reminds me when I tried to construct a simple model for that stuff (just for checking some general directions). Didn't go very well. 23:24:54 the most boring update 23:24:57 but at least we know what the next title is 23:25:10 sorry this belongs in the homestuck channel 23:26:37 is there a another thing like markovv chain except good at predicting what these machines do? 23:27:03 they don't do much at all 23:28:03 I wonder what other contexts than bit sequences there could be? 23:28:10 these machines that do what they don't think they'll do 23:30:18 brb booting into os x just for homestuck 23:31:58 -!- news-ham has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:31:58 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:35:00 Not looking good with searching those basis pairs. 50 pairs with numbers less than 10^8. 23:35:18 what's not good about that 23:35:19 ? 23:35:32 I think there must be infinitely many 23:35:50 although it would be amazing if there were something like 200 23:35:51 It seems that the density of basis pairs w.r.t. logarithm of magitude just increases. 23:35:55 -!- azaq23 has joined. 23:35:59 hmm 23:36:01 can I see the piars? 23:36:03 pairs 23:36:18 So looks like there is likely infinite amount of those. 23:36:51 -!- elliott has joined. 23:37:21 Found 60 so far, largest 229734889 23:37:32 finite things weird me out 23:37:37 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:37:39 monster group 23:37:41 like there just being sixty naturals that satisfy some unrelated-to-sixty property 23:37:43 monster group @ elliott 23:37:48 well yes 23:37:51 finite simple groups 23:38:13 229734889 = 17 * 137 * 98641 23:38:19 very funny that it has 17 in it 23:38:26 maybe they all do eventually? 23:38:54 Yeah, two factors that can't appear on their own. 23:39:20 And has r_min=2 (which is also r_min if 17). 23:39:45 Those r_min checks on irreducabilty are not needed (those can never pass). 23:40:07 -!- pikhq has joined. 23:42:09 Another interesting one: 348059377: 17 97 211073 The only factor of that to appear is 17 * 97 (which must appear anyway, because 17 and 97 appear). 23:42:40 Two primes that normally appear being jointly necressary to make some other prime appear. 23:42:53 hmm 23:43:17 > 211073 `mod` (17*97) 23:43:18 1 23:43:24 hah! 23:43:29 is there any concept even slightly analogous to primes for matrices? 23:43:45 I just got lambdabot to tell someone "FUCKING FUCK." hope they'll enjoy it 23:43:55 Ilari: i think there might be something about dividing p-1 involved 23:44:15 -!- augur has joined. 23:44:20 oerjan: There is. 23:44:26 > 136 `mod` 17 23:44:27 0 23:44:44 elliott: how? 23:44:52 @tell elliott FUCKINP FUCK 23:44:52 Consider it noted. 23:44:56 thanks crystal-cola 23:44:56 elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 23:44:59 oh my what is this 23:45:00 ?messages 23:45:01 crystal-cola said 8s ago: FUCKINP FUCK 23:45:03 lololol 23:45:03 OH GOSH 23:45:04 the profanity 23:45:06 how will I reply 23:45:06 X) 23:45:08 im winning 23:45:10 ?tell crystal-cola FUCKING FUCKSHITTING FUCKFUCK 23:45:10 Consider it noted. 23:45:10 @ intenret 23:45:11 crystal-cola: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 23:45:11 there 23:45:13 that'll teach em 23:45:17 oh 23:45:19 a message 23:45:21 ??????? 23:45:22 wow 23:45:25 i wonder who sent you a message 23:45:26 @messazzzzz 23:45:26 Unknown command, try @list 23:45:30 @messgggge 23:45:30 Unknown command, try @list 23:45:30 OMG 23:45:33 @messagggge 23:45:33 it is a ghost message 23:45:33 Unknown command, try @list 23:45:36 @mesagge 23:45:37 Unknown command, try @list 23:45:39 try spelling it "mesaj" 23:45:39 @messagge 23:45:39 elliott said 29s ago: FUCKING FUCKSHITTING FUCKFUCK 23:45:42 LOL 23:45:42 AAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!! 23:46:11 > 17*137 23:46:12 2329 23:46:40 > 98641 `mod` (17*137) 23:46:41 823 23:46:47 huh 23:46:55 > 98641 `mod` 17 23:46:56 7 23:46:59 > 98641 `mod` 137 23:47:00 1 23:47:16 -!- news-ham has joined. 23:47:17 > 98641 `div` 137 23:47:17 What are the technology haps my friends 23:47:18 720 23:47:19 VIDEO: Sony's PlayStation hack apology: Sony says experts took 6 days to realise how much data may have been stolen from PlayStation users. http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/technology-13206754 23:47:20 What are the reddit haps my friends 23:47:21 So when is Trump releasing his Vietnam draft card? He obviously got a deferment, and I think we should know why. Was it mental health related? Just asking the question here. http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/gyl3b/so_when_is_trump_releasing_his_vietnam_draft_card/ 23:47:35 Derping Trump. 23:47:57 what are the haps my friends that relate to... the ARTS??? 23:47:57 Grease duet tops film song chart: Olivia Newton-John and John Travolta duet You're The One That I Want, from 1978 film Grease, is the best-selling film track in the UK, research shows. http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/entertainment-arts-13182926 23:48:00 What are the dinosaur comics haps my friends 23:48:01 Inside royal wedding church: Explore where Kate and William will wed on Friday http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/uk-12819684 23:48:07 What are the onion haps my friends 23:48:08 Socially Awkward Player Afraid To Ask If He’s Invited To Walk-Off Celebration http://feeds.theonion.com/~r/theonion/daily/~3/e2SJKa1Qbek/ 23:48:25 > 137 `div` 17 23:48:26 8 23:48:27 What are the health haps my friends 23:48:28 Man's last moments to be screened: The death of an 84-year-old man is to be broadcast on BBC One next month as part of a new science series about the life cycle of the human body. http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/entertainment-arts-13192687 23:48:40 -!- crystal-cola has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:49:35 What friends my haps the health are 23:49:45 oerjan: ((and (sub? "PRIVMSG #esoteric" Line) (not (pre? ":cheater" Line)) 23:49:46 (or (sub? "news-ham" Line) 23:49:46 (and (sub? "what are the" (lowc Line)) 23:49:46 Japan emperor sees quake-hit port: Japan's imperial couple pay their first visit to parts of the north-east coast worst affected by the 11 March earthquake and tsunami. http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/world-asia-pacific-13207107 23:49:47 (sub? "haps my friends" (lowc Line))))) 23:49:52 whoops just revealed the secret feature 23:50:21 ... 23:50:38 hey, it was disturbing having news-ham lines appear on my screen, like a ghost. 23:50:40 Cuts 'leave Sure Start starved': Sure Start children's centres in England are being starved of funds and the network is shrinking as councils cut funds, says Labour. http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/education-13206802 23:51:07 what are the chances this will end well 23:51:16 pasting that was an honest mistake 23:51:28 but, err, i suspect the worst it'll come to is another "iddiott" line? 23:51:42 what are the chances this will perhaps end well 23:51:44 (i was trying to show you why your line didn't work :)) 23:51:51 oerjan: what are the haps that this will chance well my friends 23:52:10 ... 23:52:13 news-ham? 23:52:14 Superb Trump to face Ding in semi: Judd Trump thrashes Graeme Dott 13-5 to reach the World Championship semi-finals, where he will face Ding Junhui, a 13-10 winner over Mark Selby. http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/sport1/hi/snooker/13209141.stm 23:52:19 oerjan: what are the haps that this will chance well my friends 23:52:23 oh 23:52:26 oerjan: what are the that this will chance well haps my friends 23:52:28 Timings on the day: The following timings have been confirmed for royal wedding day. http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/uk-13097243 23:52:46 elliott: that one above would have been _so_ much better if it were about donald 23:54:01 news-ham what are the donald duck haps my friends 23:54:02 Palestinian rivals 'agree deal': The Fatah party of Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and Hamas, which governs Gaza, agree a reconciliation deal, officials say. http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/world-middle-east-13215062 23:55:48 GAAAH WHY IS "AGREE" USED IN THIS MANNER 23:55:51 IT DOESN'T PARSE 23:56:05 pikhq: bbc english motherfucker 23:56:06 do you speak it 23:56:22 what are the grammar nazis up to? perhaps my friends know 23:56:23 VIDEO: Barack Obama: 'I was born in Hawaii': The White House has released President Barack Obama's birth certificate, in response to persistent rumours he was not born in the US. http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/world-us-canada-13213810 23:57:03 parse("agree a deal"); // This will fail. 23:57:25 what are theologians' dark secrets? perhaps my friends are doomed! 23:57:25 'Steal everything': Is the PlayStation hack a sign of crime to come? http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/technology-13213632 23:57:34 Seems like that if p appears, p(p*2^i+1) will appear as well, if p*2^i+1 is a prime. 23:58:05 Ilari: this somehow reminds me of perfect numbers 23:58:11 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:58:52 STEAL EVERYTHING