00:00:17 !slashes /%/ZOMG A COMMENT!/Hello, world! 00:00:19 Hello, world! 00:00:40 yes, that syntax is useful _outside_ substitutions 00:00:54 (also to delete data in general) 00:02:12 but in a program with looping, most of the program code will be quoted inside a large /P0/.../ substitution, so that method cannot be used directly. 00:02:20 !slashes /, world!, world!/Hello\/%\/ZOMG A COMMENT?\//, world!, world!, world! 00:02:21 Hello, world! 00:02:23 oerjan: I see. Kind of. 00:02:57 My way is better because I don't fully understand the benefits of your way. :P 00:03:10 yes you can do that but then the comment would have to be quoted and copied around each iteration, and you have to note how many nesting levels of quoting/escaping deep you are 00:03:27 -!- zzo38 has joined. 00:03:58 while the method i showed will have the comments removed at the first copying 00:04:53 -!- zzo38 has set topic: ouer heaerts go out to htose in the recent nfunctionslkaj disotasietr whenjk jtwentyfurou don stewrarts losjot theries liveseils to fsharppe | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 00:05:23 the benefit is that you can put comments anywhere inside the main loop with only minimal care or cost. 00:05:54 > let fibs = 1 : scanl (+) 1 fibs in take 10 fibs 00:05:55 [1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55] 00:08:25 The reason for removing the quotations about programming is to make the logs URLs to fit. Those were less recent than the text at the beginning, which is why I retained the text at the beginning ("ouer heaerts go...") 00:10:43 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:11:39 -!- elliott_ has joined. 00:11:44 ...is _plenty_ usable 00:11:46 lulz 00:11:57 oerjan has finally found his favourite language 00:12:04 with the deadfish interpreter i even managed to indent without extra [] around the lines _and_ still have the program print spaces and newlines 00:12:06 MAYBE 00:12:07 how, replacing " " or similar? 00:12:10 (two spaces) 00:12:26 yes, that and "\n " 00:12:28 iirc 00:13:10 slashes is awesome 00:13:28 !slashes /\/\/\//|0//**/*0*//*0/0#//0##/#0//0#/1//|0/|//|/////*** 00:13:29 11* 00:13:33 aww 00:13:37 yeah, it is 00:13:39 :D 00:13:39 so single spaces without preceding \n were preserved, as well as all but the last \n before space 00:13:44 oerjan: are you /sure/ itwlifjitjisjifisjfjsi is IO-complete? 00:13:52 elliott_: pretty sure 00:13:53 it seems like there might be some things you cannot do with raw data in slashes 00:14:03 requiring some kind of e.g. character after each byte 00:14:06 which you can't do with that 00:14:11 note that it reads one character at a time 00:14:16 micahjohnston: did you write that? 00:14:21 elliott_: yeah 00:14:24 cool 00:14:31 I've been thinking about how to convert unary to binary all day at school 00:14:32 xD 00:14:36 I almost got it write there 00:14:38 those slashes at the end are insane 00:14:38 which gives you plenty of room to manipulate it 00:14:51 !slashes /\/\/\//|0//**/*0*//*0/0#//0##/#0//0#/1//|0/|//|///////*//******** 00:14:55 !slashes /\/\/\//|0//**/*0*//*0/0*//*/#//0##/#0//0#/1//|0/|//|/////*** 00:14:56 11 00:15:00 !slashes /\/\/\//|0//**/*0*//*0/0*//*/#//0##/#0//0#/1//|0/|//|/////**** 00:15:01 100 00:15:03 awesome 00:15:04 !slashes /\/\/\//|0//**/*0*//*0/0*//*/#//0##/#0//0#/1//|0/|//|/////* 00:15:04 # 00:15:07 lol 00:15:08 aww 00:15:12 doesn't oerjan have such a routine in the deadfish interp though? 00:15:17 i guess there's no real routines with slashes :D 00:15:18 for decimal, yes 00:15:24 note that it reads one character at a time 00:15:25 ah, okay 00:15:47 elliott_: that's sort of essential, and one reason why thue IO is broken 00:15:48 I still wish it used a nicer delimiter than GG 00:15:53 wow, s/write/right/ 00:16:04 I was paying more attention to slashes than tlaking 00:16:05 hmm, how do you detect EOF with itflab? 00:16:11 micahjohnston: tlaking is hrad 00:16:17 shore iss 00:16:25 elliott_: i decided when implementing it that EOF gives an empty string 00:16:44 (had to make a choice, and that seemed the simplest) 00:17:00 heh 00:17:12 oerjan: underload->ifjtiwjtjflabjsifsit compiler 00:17:13 wait 00:17:17 just ->slashes compiler 00:17:21 underload has no input :D 00:17:23 heh 00:17:24 IT MUST BE DONE 00:18:33 !slashes /\/\/\//|0//**/*0*//*0/0*//*/#//0##/#0//0#/1//|0/|//|/////* 00:18:34 # 00:18:35 oerjan: is it done yet 00:18:48 I must have some accidental code-as-data in there or something 00:18:48 yes 00:18:55 because otherwise it hsould be working 00:20:00 !slashes /\/\/\//|0//**/*0*//*0/0*//*/#//0##/#0//0#/1//|0/|////* 00:20:01 # 00:20:08 !slashes /\/\/\//|0//**/*0*//*0/0*//*/#//0##/#0//0#/1////* 00:20:09 # 00:20:15 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:20:43 !slashes /\/\/\//|0//**/*0*//*0/0*////* 00:20:44 * 00:20:52 !slashes /\/\/\//|0////* 00:20:53 |0* 00:21:07 :/ 00:21:13 why is that happening? 00:21:23 because of osama 00:21:24 If I use Hashapass, and an attacker knows the parameter and resulting password, can they get at the master pasword? 00:21:36 Sgeo: if they can that would be the stupidest design ever 00:21:52 considering it's a HASH FUNCTION 00:22:06 !slashes /\/\/\//|0//*0/0*////* 00:22:07 * 00:22:25 ahhhh 00:22:34 !slashes /\/\/\/\//\/|0//*0/0*////* 00:22:35 |0* 00:22:48 !slashes /\/\/\/\//\/|0//**/*0*//*0/0#//0##/#0//0#/1//|0/|//|/////* 00:22:49 * 00:22:53 :| 00:23:09 !slashes /\/\/\/\//\/|0//**/*0*//*0/0*//*/#//0##/#0//0#/1//|0/|//|/////* 00:23:09 # 00:23:14 lol 00:23:22 oerjan: help the poor guy debug his code 00:28:23 ah. 00:29:02 !slashes /\/\/\/\/\//\/\/|0//**/*0*//*0/0#//0##/#0//0#/1//|0/|//|/////* 00:29:04 * 00:29:10 wat 00:30:07 -!- Lymia has joined. 00:30:15 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 00:30:15 -!- Lymia has joined. 00:30:41 duh 00:32:08 !slashes /\/\/\/\/\//\/\/|0//**/*0*//*0/0*//*/#//0##/#0//0#/1//|0/|//|/////* 00:32:09 1 00:32:23 there you go 00:32:27 oh ok 00:32:58 kinda messy I think 00:33:08 but I don't have any practice with this stuff :P 00:33:20 is there any clean way to make a sort of fsm with it? 00:33:35 why do you want those /// before the * anyway, makes it much harder 00:33:39 as in doing one substitution over and over, then switching to anotehr, then switching back, until neither work or something 00:34:22 you can put the substitutions you want in a main loop 00:34:25 !slashes /**/*0*//*0/0*//*/#//0##/#0//0#/1//|0/|//|//|0* 00:34:26 1 00:34:31 !slashes /**/*0*//*0/0*//*/#//0##/#0//0#/1//|0/|//|//|0**** 00:34:33 100 00:34:45 I dunno, I was just trying to make only *'s after all the slashes 00:34:58 * Sgeo angers at XNA 00:35:09 hm... 00:35:21 oerjan: how do you make a main loop? 00:35:45 !slashes /\/\/\//\/\/|0//**/*0*//*0/0*//*/#//0##/#0//0#/1//|0/|//|///* 00:35:46 1 00:36:09 you need to make a self-replicating subprogram 00:38:14 yeah, I thought so 00:38:25 I tried for a long time using a paper to make a quine or a self-replicating program 00:38:28 but I couldn't 00:38:44 see http://esolangs.org/wiki/Slashes#Simpler_counter although my own style has changed a bit since that one 00:39:02 (i use . instead of | now, and <> without -) 00:39:23 because . is less noise 00:39:43 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:40:04 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Deadfish#itflabtijtslwi is my latest creation 00:40:47 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:40:57 the basic structure is /./<\\\\>\\\\\\/ 00:41:03 dammit 00:42:54 then /P1/...quoted code...//P0/P1//<\>///P2/P1/...some initialization...P0 00:43:44 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:44:21 and in the quoted code somewhere similar commands except with P2 in the spot for the quoted code itself 00:45:25 the /P2/P1/ needs to be /P\2/P1/ in the quoted code 00:46:21 and /<\>/<\\\\>\\\\\\/ instead of the one with . 00:47:30 there is some trickery with where you need to quote with ., with \, and with both 00:47:59 heh, nice 00:48:19 *escape with \ 00:48:28 i try to keep those separate notions 00:50:41 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:52:11 * oerjan wonders if the deadfish interpreter would have been more readable if he had used | as abbreviation for .\. 00:52:38 so the number of times you copy something is the number of times the escape slashes go away 00:53:11 yes, although it's exponential 00:53:13 so if you want to make a quine, just copy it one less time than the amount of times you escape everything 00:53:40 -!- olsner has joined. 00:55:14 something like that 01:06:07 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 01:06:20 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:06:47 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:06:48 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 01:06:48 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:09:06 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:09:06 -!- elliott_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:10:28 -!- elliott has joined. 01:10:34 oerjan: btw I think | is nicer looking than . 01:10:35 /more readable 01:10:38 it separates things more 01:11:30 um the idea is _not_ to separate, if you actually want to read the code you mostly need to be able to ignore the .'s... 01:13:39 well okay 01:13:44 not that anyone can read it :D 01:13:56 elliott: how do you type a / at the beginning of a message? 01:14:00 micahjohnston: two slashes 01:14:02 ok 01:14:05 oerjan: It's cool how you can change the escape character in /// 01:14:08 not in irssi :/ 01:14:11 /X/\\/ 01:14:12 gtg 01:14:13 micahjohnston: should work 01:14:15 if not, /say 01:14:23 /test 01:14:24 ok 01:14:26 bye 01:14:40 IS TOO READABLE 01:14:49 (not a strongly held opinion) 01:15:14 /hm 01:15:20 irssi requires / / 01:18:11 weird 01:18:26 elliott: anyway i chose . to get it as close to readable as reasonable 01:18:36 oerjan: hm here's a thing... /X/\\X/ 01:18:39 makes a character self-escaping 01:18:50 that is a tight loop 01:18:54 argh, so it is 01:19:06 /X/\\unused//unused/X/ 01:19:07 argh 01:19:10 that doesn't work either 01:19:12 is it actually possible... 01:19:15 no. 01:19:18 damn 01:19:43 any substitution that replaces a character without context _must_ obliterate it from the program. 01:25:41 What would be the maximum possible length of a NSF music that does not repeat if it is played no slower than 120 notes per minute? 01:26:17 nsf? 01:27:34 NSF is a file format that stores 6502 machine code and is played back using the NES/Famicom audio (including Famicom Disk System). 01:28:31 if it's actual machine code i'd expect it to do exponential processing... 01:28:54 like generating a thue-morse sequence, that is nonrepeating 01:29:17 you just need a big enough counter and some bit twiddling 01:29:55 It is but it is usually run using an emulator not an actual 6502 machine (although it could be). (Actually, there is one difference: The decimal mode does nothing, although it still exists.) 01:30:16 oerjan: Yes it could generate thue-morse sequence but not forever because it is limited by available RAM. 01:30:57 zxcvbnm, bvfgtyujnm,ku 01:31:02 well i think you should be able to get a length of 256^(ram size - overhead) 01:31:12 (in bytes) 01:31:29 What would be the maximum possible length of a NSF music that does not repeat if it is played no slower than 120 notes per minute? 01:31:31 heh at "does not repeat" 01:31:33 that's a bit vague 01:32:02 well i assumed that meant it's not just a repetition of a smaller block 01:32:10 oerjan: Yes probably it could. 01:33:10 and anything larger than 256^(ram size + something small) should be impossible 01:33:29 because it would reach a repeating state 01:33:35 Yes I believe you 01:40:15 poiuytrewq isn't a word? 01:40:44 poiuy_qwert is a nick, though 01:41:04 or is it 01:41:29 it's rather unlikely i should think 01:42:56 q at the end, w... maybe there is some strange language with a compatible spelling system 01:50:33 welp 01:52:55 -!- augur has joined. 01:53:21 qitten 01:56:28 pitten 01:57:31 bitten 02:18:13 -!- pikhq has joined. 02:19:17 /test 02:22:41 /asfghjk 02:22:43 /a 02:22:44 //a 02:22:45 ///a 02:22:47 /////a 02:22:49 damn 02:37:50 What do you test? 02:37:58 Some guy in #haskell earlier today suggested a contest where people write programs that take a very long time to run, but it's not clear why. 02:37:59 And also, what do you damn? 02:38:23 tswett: I don't know either 02:39:17 Programs that exploit stuff like cache misses and register overflows and parapneumonic effusions and similar obscure things. 02:39:26 And yeah, I don't have a clue. 02:40:49 If you know the exact speed of the computer you are running on you might do so, maybe, if you need certain speeds 02:42:22 tswett: And, no doubt, fucking with the branch predictor. 02:42:51 Ah, yes. 02:44:09 -!- jack has joined. 02:44:35 -!- jack has changed nick to Guest42164. 02:45:39 -!- Guest42164 has left. 02:48:38 that'd take some major fucking 02:48:44 an unpredicted branch isn't _that_ slow 02:49:21 True. But imagine a loop that's something like ten instructions long, and the branch predictor gets it wrong every time, wasting about another ten clock cycles... 02:49:32 No, that wouldn't be that slow at all. 02:49:39 > (\x y -> x / y == 3 / 7) 3 7 02:49:40 True 02:49:41 Yah, but it doesn't get you from "fast program" to "glacial program" :P 02:49:51 oerjan: depends on the machine :) 02:50:03 that existentialtype blog is starting to bug me with the anti-laziness crap 02:50:23 I don't care if he's famous, or even if he's wrong, but it's quite smug 02:50:26 this was from ezyang's blog 02:50:29 yes 02:50:34 he links to a post by that guy at the bottom 02:51:52 elliott: Every bit adds up. 02:52:10 pikhq: yes but it wont make a program run glacially that looks like it shouldn't 02:52:15 to make it noticeable, you have to loop shitloads of times 02:52:19 in which case it'll be slow _anyway_ 02:52:23 even if they got predicted correctly 02:52:24 elliott: Not itself, but it's a nice touch. 02:53:05 elliott: Screw making it a simple, one-line fuckup that makes it slow. I'm imagining every single bit being slower than it should, but not obviously so. 02:53:55 This would, ideally, *also* involve pessimum memory access patterns. 02:54:13 pah, that's just constant factor differences 02:54:15 innit oerjan 02:55:27 And, of course, a subtle misimplementation of your choice of algorithm that makes it significantly worse O()-wise. 02:55:59 O(erjan) 02:56:28 forgetting to memoize perhaps? 02:56:54 now we have to invent big-Ø notation... 02:57:06 Forgetting to read from the cache in your memoization? 02:57:11 There's a famous misimplementation of the Sieve of Eratosthenes in Haskell. 02:57:39 The real Sieve of Eratosthenes: for each prime number, cross off multiples of that prime number; the prime numbers are the ones that are left. 02:58:22 The fake one: for each number, take it modulo every prime number (below the threshold) and cross it off once you find one it's a multiple of; if you didn't find any, it's prime. 02:58:25 or if you could use typeclass polymorphism to trigger that supposed inefficiency which the monomorphism restriction is supposed to prevent, causing a value to be reevaluated each time 02:58:31 oerjan: :D 02:58:34 brilliant 02:58:45 elliott: Then it is good thing that TeX Computer Modern fonts already includes it and you can now make it in math mode 02:58:48 Haskell is probably the best language for this, isn't it. 02:58:54 zzo38: YES I AM SO GLAD OF THAT. 02:59:03 tswett: laziness offers endless opportunities to make your program go slow 02:59:21 But what is this notation going to do? 02:59:26 love 03:01:09 * pikhq could fairly trivially make his in-Haskell Brainfuck compiler go uberslow. 03:01:29 Just remove a couple of seqs... 03:02:52 elliott: hm if you could combine it with polymorphic recursion so that ghc _cannot_ figure out which particular specializations it will use often... 03:03:12 oerjan: :D 03:04:30 or, gets too confused to notice that two branches use the same one. 03:04:40 I like the idea of GHC getting confused. 03:04:54 i don't know how clever ghc is about avoiding this. 03:05:05 Its job is just so complex that it isn't I can handle this/I can't handle this, it's yep I know what this is about/um i am a bit uncertain about this code/help what is this/aaaaaaaaaa/my brain just exploded 03:05:16 (last one being an actual error message :)) 03:06:22 oh it might help to split it into modules so ghc cannot see which type the function will be used at while compiling the module. 03:06:35 You can't seeee meeee 03:07:34 hm 03:12:02 -!- MDude has changed nick to MSleep. 03:12:23 !haskell {-# LANGUAGE NoMonomorphismRestriction #-} fib0 = 1 : fib1; fib1 = zipWith (+) fib0 fib1; main = print (fib0 !! 20) 03:12:31 Stack space overflow: current size 8388608 bytes. 03:12:41 oops :D 03:12:43 :D 03:12:57 > let in 9 03:12:58 9 03:13:16 hm that would be a sign that actually _does_ confuse ghc 03:13:23 oerjan: indeed 03:14:01 !haskell {-# LANGUAGE NoMonomorphismRestriction #-} fib0 = 1 : fib1; fib1 = zipWith (+) fib0 fib1; main = print (take 20 fib0) 03:14:07 [1Stack space overflow: current size 8388608 bytes. 03:14:13 :D 03:14:17 or erm 03:14:17 wow. 03:14:20 how did that even 03:14:26 ...doh 03:14:27 how can it produce half a number... 03:14:34 it's buggy 03:14:39 or did it actually stack overflow in _show_ 03:14:46 oerjan: no but why no comma before the stack overflow? 03:14:51 no, the fib1 = is erroneous 03:15:06 elliott: because it needs to check if the rest of the list is empty 03:15:17 oh right, heh 03:15:45 !haskell {-# LANGUAGE NoMonomorphismRestriction #-} fib0 = 1 : fib1; fib1 = 1 : fib2; fib2 = zipWith (+) fib0 fib1; main = print (fib2 !! 20) 03:15:51 28657 03:15:57 tsk tsk 03:16:08 !haskell {-# LANGUAGE NoMonomorphismRestriction #-} fib0 = 1 : fib1; fib1 = 1 : fib2; fib2 = zipWith (+) fib0 fib1; main = print (fib2 !! 30) 03:16:13 3524578 03:16:22 too fast 03:16:23 !haskell {-# LANGUAGE NoMonomorphismRestriction #-} fib0 = 1 : fib1; fib1 = 1 : fib2; fib2 = zipWith (+) fib0 fib1; main = print (fib2 !! 50) 03:16:27 slow it down 03:16:29 53316291173 03:16:31 ah yes 03:16:39 oerjan: it would be nice to do it without NoMonomorphismRestriction 03:16:40 i guess that doesn't trigger it, then 03:16:42 since it's a bit of an alarm-bells flag 03:16:46 yeah 03:16:55 something with typeclasses? 03:17:11 um the monomorphism restriction _is_ something to do with typeclasses 03:17:20 I mean 03:17:26 produce the same slowing effect with some type class magic 03:17:28 somehow 03:17:38 you said SOMETHING about that before anyway :D 03:17:45 right before you went on about polymorphic recursion 03:18:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:18:34 um yes typeclasses is precisely what triggers the MR 03:18:40 oh shut up 03:32:46 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 03:40:06 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 03:40:45 -!- TeruFSX3 has joined. 03:41:22 -!- TeruFSX3 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:41:52 oerjan: why so potable ...... 03:42:34 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:42:35 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:42:38 DRINK ME 03:42:43 xD 03:42:48 `addquote oerjan: why so potable ...... DRINK ME 03:42:51 385) oerjan: why so potable ...... DRINK ME 03:42:53 !slashes /\/\/\/\\\\/\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\//\/\/\/\\\/\/\\////\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\////\\\ ... 03:42:57 micahjohnston: uh. 03:42:59 ... ///\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\////\\////\\////\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\////\\\///\\////\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\////\\////\\////\\////\\\///\\////\\////\\\///\\////\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\////\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\/// ... 03:43:02 FAIL 03:43:05 ... /\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\////\\////\\////\\\///\\////\\////\\\///\\////\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\////\\////\ ... 03:43:07 put it on a pastebin and give a url 03:43:11 ... \////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\//\/\/\/\\\/\\\/\\////\//\//\/\/\/\\\\/\\//\\\/\\\/\\\/\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\/\\\/\\\\////\//\//\/\/\/\\\\/\\\/\\\/\\\/\\\\\\\\\\////\/\/\ 03:43:12 ... 03:43:14 :( 03:43:16 put it on a pastebin and give a url 03:43:21 no, it's just the quine on the wiki page 03:43:22 :) 03:43:24 oh 03:43:27 it's already on my website i'm sure 03:43:39 what the great Oer Jan has no website 03:43:43 he's too busy being potable. 03:43:50 !slashes http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/quine.sss 03:44:06 now what 03:44:11 NOW WE WAIT 03:44:20 !echo hi 03:44:22 /\/\/\/\\\\/\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\//\/\/\/\\\/\/\\////\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\// 03:44:24 how fast is your perl /// interp, btw? 03:44:29 it's that bug again 03:44:34 oh gog 03:44:36 well it should be instant for that quine 03:44:38 !echo nooo 03:44:39 nooo 03:44:41 oerjan: I mean in general 03:44:56 also what is dslashes.pl... just debug? 03:44:56 well it's dog slow on the bct interpreter 03:45:01 seems like it 03:45:11 oerjan: hmm is /// Turing-complexity-equivalent? 03:45:26 i.e., any algorithm which is O(whatever) on a Turing machine can be run by a /// program with the same complexity 03:45:38 hm yeah i added some extra debug options i think 03:45:44 or, say, you can write a BF interpreter which has O(one) complexity for all operations 03:45:48 you know what i mean 03:46:06 I know that rule thirty or whatever the wolfram one is is TC (probably, depends if you require a halting condition), but has a non-constant overhead IIRC 03:46:11 or maybe that result was outdated... anyway 03:46:22 hm a turing machine might work, assuming you consider one substitution to be O(1) 03:46:33 except that's sort of cheating 03:46:34 oerjan: hmm, I don't know if I can consider that 03:46:36 it's blatantly false :) 03:46:57 in which case it would be hard i think 03:47:01 I mean, even with a fancy string finding algorithm it's still O(n) worst case. 03:47:06 (I think) 03:47:15 oerjan: that's a shame then :( 03:47:29 it might be equivalent to something more parallel, such as 1D CAs 03:47:33 um 03:47:39 um? 03:47:51 i mean with O(n) per step of a CA 03:47:55 right 03:48:00 or wait... 03:48:04 it's just... bleh 03:48:04 oerjan: is there a much shorter quine that's not only / and \? 03:48:09 well with a better 03:48:10 micahjohnston: yes, "x" 03:48:12 or the null string 03:48:13 !slashes yes 03:48:14 yes 03:48:27 oerjan: BF, Underload, etc. etc. etc. are all Turing-equivalent in both capability and "speed" 03:48:32 but if /// isn't that kinda sucks :( 03:48:36 elliott: not a trivial one 03:48:39 I knew that 03:48:39 :/ 03:48:44 micahjohnston: define trivial 03:48:46 elliott: the null string *is* a quine that's only / and \. 03:48:47 elliott: underload might very well be faster than that 03:48:48 no slashes 03:48:57 tswett: :D 03:49:01 tswett: null strings are not quines 03:49:03 they don't count 03:49:05 oerjan: err, define faster than that 03:49:11 Underload isn't faster than a UTM :-D 03:49:22 elliott: um yes it is 03:49:25 ok, something with a slash or three, or more, that's a quine 03:49:29 howso? 03:49:43 Can Underload do something in O(log n) that a UTM can only do in O(n)...? 03:50:04 UTMs can only move to a different spot in O(n) time 03:50:22 that's not an algorithm... 03:50:23 underload on the other hand can easily implement tree structures for O(log n) lookup 03:50:28 hmm 03:50:30 ok that's scary 03:50:38 I need a better conceptual machine to relate this to... 03:51:00 UTM's are well known to be slower than RAM machines 03:51:09 right 03:51:21 like, I wouldn't count having to do addition or multiplication in a loop in BF, though 03:51:32 because arithmetic is O(log n), if you get O(one) by only handling some integers that's cheating :) 03:51:36 but 03:51:36 geh 03:51:43 Do we have a nice formal model of a RAM machine? 03:51:51 it's not a problem for BF since you can just use single-bit cells 03:52:11 essentially boolfuck, bypassing the slowness of +- 03:52:22 heh 03:52:26 I didn't really mean that 03:52:27 but okay 03:52:28 I guess something like C with an unlimited pool of possible pointers would make a perfectly good RAM machine. 03:52:30 tswett: subleq should work fine for O() purposes 03:52:36 "It's unclear why he stopped but a good guess is because it really hurts to shoot nails into your skull." 03:53:02 -!- augur has joined. 03:53:03 "We'd like to say he is doing fine today, but last we heard he left the pysch ward against his doctor's wishes. Damn, we were so sure the 12 nails to the head story would have a happy ending." 03:53:14 oerjan: I dunno. With subleq, you can compute the first n Fibonacci numbers in O(n) time. 03:53:26 er, wat 03:53:28 On an actual computer, that's pretty much going to take O(n log n) time. 03:53:43 oh right 03:53:49 because it can do subtraction in one step 03:53:49 ew 03:54:06 wow this is weird, all these impossible machines that aren't super-Turing... 03:54:11 ok so Turing machines are impossible too but 03:55:14 ok it is getting bright explain this potable oerjan 03:55:15 I think any determinstic machine would have to be turing-equivalent, or paradoxical 03:55:21 micahjohnston: wat 03:55:23 that's what I thought 03:55:56 well I guess a hierarchical halting problem oracle isn't… 03:55:57 I dunno 03:56:03 i repeat, wat 03:57:40 like 03:57:43 I don't get what you mean 03:57:50 I think any determinstic machine would have to be turing-equivalent, or paradoxical 03:57:53 i don't get what you mean :) 03:58:06 or by super-turing do you mean with respect to performance and not computability? 03:58:23 i mean computability 03:58:29 i'm just saying that subleq isn't super-turing 03:58:34 but it does something impossible (addition in O(one)) 03:58:42 OK, I guess it depends on how you define big-O notation... 03:58:44 or rather how subleq is defined 03:58:45 blergh 04:00:00 ok oerjan stop making it bright outside. 04:04:32 !slashes /<\>/<\\\\>\\\\\\//P1/ <>/<<>\><>/<<>\<>\<>\<>\><>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>1<>/P<>2<>/<>/P<>0<>/P<>1<>/<>/<<>\<>\><>\<>\<>/<>/<>/P<>\2<>/P<>1<>/P<>0//P0/P1//<\\>\\///P\2/P1/P0 04:04:34 <>P1P0<\>\P2<><><><><>P<>0 04:04:43 ...apparently not 04:05:48 oh duh 04:08:09 ok i should sleep 04:08:17 AND SO SHOULD YOU OERJAN 04:08:36 not yet 04:12:40 !slashes /a/aa/ 04:12:45 !slashes /a/aa/ a 04:12:46 oh god its bright 04:12:58 Lymia: infinite loop 04:13:09 oerjan, arn't those fun/ 04:13:30 very zen 04:13:34 good nighgtht 04:17:28 !slashes /<\>/[\\\\]\\\\\\//P1/<>/<<>\><>/[<>\<>\<>\<>\]<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>1<>/P<>2<>/<>/P<>0<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\<>\]<>\<>\<>/<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>\<>\2<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\]<>/<<>\><>\<>\<>/P<>0<>//P0/P1//[\\]\\/\\//P\\2/P1//[\]/<\>\\/P0 04:17:36 bah 04:17:38 !echo hi 04:17:38 hi 04:17:46 !slashes /<\>/[\\\\]\\\\\\//P1/<>/<<>\><>/[<>\<>\<>\<>\]<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>1<>/P<>2<>/<>/P<>0<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\<>\]<>\<>\<>/<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>\<>\2<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\]<>/<<>\><>\<>\<>/P<>0<>//P0/P1//[\\]\\/\\//P\\2/P1//[\]/<\>\\/P0 04:18:34 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 04:18:57 !slashes /<\>/[\\\\]\\\\\\//P1/<>/<<>\><>/[<>\<>\<>\<>\]<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>1<>/P<>2<>/<>/P<>0<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\<>\]<>\<>\<>/<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>\<>\2<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\]<>/<<>\><>\<>\<>/P<>0//P0/P1//[\\]\\/\\//P\\2/P1//[\]/<\>\\/P0 04:18:58 <>/<<>\><>/[<>\<>\<>\<>\]<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>1<>/P<>2<>/<>/P<>0<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\<>\]<>\<>\<>/<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>\<>\2<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\]<>/<<>\><>\<>\<>/P<>0 04:19:14 ...not quite 04:20:27 !slashes \//\\//\\//\/\\/\//\/\\/\/\//\/\///\\\/\\\/\//\\//\/\/\\/\/\\\/\\/\\/\/\/\/\\\/\\/\/\\\/\\//\\/\\///\/\\\//\/\//\\//\/\//\/\\\\\/\/\///\//\/\\/\//\ 04:20:28 / 04:20:33 Okay. 04:20:52 !py 04:21:18 !slashes /\/\\/\/\//\/\///\\\/\\\/\//\\//\/\/\\/\/\\\/\\/\\/\/\/\/\\\/\\/\/\\\/\\//\\/\\///\/\\\//\/\//\\//\/\//\/\\\\\/\/\///\//\/\\/\//\ 04:21:20 / 04:21:31 Well. 04:23:20 !slashes \\////\\\\\\//\\\\//\\///\\//\\\\\\\\/\\//\\\\///\\/\\\\/\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\/\\\\\\////\\/\\//\\/\\\\//\\/\\//\\\\/\\//\\/\\/\\\\//////\\/\\// 04:23:20 \\\ 04:23:28 !slashes /\\/\\/\\\\///\\/\\\\///\\\\//\\/\\\\/\\\\/\\\\//\\\\\\\\\\/\\//\\\\/\\\\///\\/\\\\\\\\/\\///\\/\\\\///\\\\\\///\\\\//\\\\/\\/\\//\\\\\\/ 04:23:30 :v 04:23:51 !slashes :v 04:23:51 :v 04:23:59 * oerjan wonders what you are doing 04:24:15 !slashes \\\\/\\//\\/\/\//\//\///\\\\//\\\\\\//\\///\\/\\\//\\\///\/////////\/\\\///\\\\/\///\\\//\////\ 04:24:15 \\ 04:24:18 !slashes \/\//\\///\\\/////\/\\\\/\/\/\/\\\/////\\/\/\\//\//\/\////\\\//\/\\/\ 04:24:19 // 04:24:23 !slashes ///\\\/\/\//\///////\/\/\//\//\//\///\\\\//\//\\\////\/\\/\\//\\\\\\/\/\//\\ 04:24:24 \///\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ 04:24:25 :v 04:24:34 Random blobs of slashes generate output! 04:24:42 you don't say! 04:24:44 !slashes desu\desu\\\\\desu\\\\desudesu\\desudesu\\desudesu\\\\\\\\desu\\desu\\desu\\\\\\desudesu\desu\\\desudesudesu 04:24:45 desudesu\\desu\\desudesu\desudesu\desudesu\\\\desu\desu\desu\\\desudesudesu\desudesudesu 04:24:53 !slashes \\\\desu\\\desudesu\desudesu\desudesudesu\\desu\\desu\\\\desudesudesudesu\desu\\desu\desu\\\desu\\desu\\desudesudesudesudesu\ 04:24:53 \\desu\desudesudesudesudesudesudesu\desu\desu\\desudesudesudesudesu\desudesu\desu\desu\desudesudesudesudesu 04:25:08 !slashes desudesu\\desu\ desu \ \desudesu\desu desu \\desudesu \\\desudesudesudesu \ desu \desu desudesu desudesu desu \ \desu 04:25:09 desudesu\desu desu desudesudesu desu \desudesu \desudesudesudesu desu desu desudesu desudesu desu desu 04:27:06 !slashes /<\>/[\\\\]\\\\\\//P1/<>/<<>\><>/[<>\<>\<>\<>\]<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>1<>/P<>2<>/<>/P<>0<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\<>\]<>\<>\<>/<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>\<>\2<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\]<>/<<>\><>\<>\<>/P<>0/hm.../P0/P1//[\\]\\/\\//P\\2/P1//[\]/<\>\\/P0 04:27:08 hm...<>/<<>\><>/[<>\<>\<>\<>\]<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>1<>/P<>2<>/<>/P<>0<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\<>\]<>\<>\<>/<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>\<>\2<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\]<>/<<>\><>\<>\<>/P<>0 04:27:31 !slashes /<\>/[\\\\]\\\\\\//P1/<>/<<>\><>/[<>\<>\<>\<>\]<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>1<>/P<>2<>/<>/P<>0<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\<>\]<>\<>\<>/<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>\<>\2<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\]<>/<<>\><>\<>\<>/P<>0/hm.../P0/P1//[\\]\\/\\//P\\2/P1//[\]/<\>\\/erm...P0 04:27:32 hm...erm...<>/<<>\><>/[<>\<>\<>\<>\]<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>1<>/P<>2<>/<>/P<>0<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\<>\]<>\<>\<>/<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>\<>\2<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\]<>/<<>\><>\<>\<>/P<>0 04:27:47 ok so it actually gets that far 04:28:46 ah it would seem it only prints the inner part 04:30:04 d'oh 04:31:15 !slashes /@/ed//!/e //~/ S/Shadow th!H@gehog is a 2005 video gam!develop@ by~ega~tudio USA, th!former Unit@~tates division of~ega's~onic Team. 04:31:16 Shadow the Hedgehog is a 2005 video game developed by Sega Studio USA, the former United States division of Sega's Sonic Team. 04:31:22 This compression algorithm really sucks so far. :P 04:34:03 tswett, automatically generated? 04:34:03 !slashes /<\>/[\\\\]\\\\\\//P1/<>/<<>\><>/[<>\<>\<>\<>\]<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>1<>/P<>2<>/<>/P<>0<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\]<>/<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>\<>\2<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\]<>/<<>\><>\<>\<>/P<>0//P0/P1//[\]/\\//P\\2/P1//[\]/<\>\\/P0 04:34:05 /<\>/[\\\\]\\\\\\//P1/<>/<<>\><>/[<>\<>\<>\<>\]<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>1<>/P<>2<>/<>/P<>0<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\]<>/<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>\<>\2<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\]<>/<<>\><>\<>\<>/P<>0//P0/P1//[\]/\\//P\\2/P1//[\]/<\>\\/P0 04:34:14 lifthrasiir: automatically generated by hand, yes. 04:34:32 !slashes /<\>/[\\\\]\\\\\\//P1/<>/<<>\><>/[<>\<>\<>\<>\]<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>1<>/P<>2<>/<>/P<>0<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\]<>/<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>\<>\2<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\]<>/<<>\><>\<>\<>/P<>0//P0/P1//[\]/\\//P\\2/P1//[\]/<\>\\/P0 04:34:34 /<\>/[\\\\]\\\\\\//P1/<>/<<>\><>/[<>\<>\<>\<>\]<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>1<>/P<>2<>/<>/P<>0<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\]<>/<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>\<>\2<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\]<>/<<>\><>\<>\<>/P<>0//P0/P1//[\]/\\//P\\2/P1//[\]/<\>\\/P0 04:34:44 micahjohnston: there you go 04:34:56 tswett, lol 04:36:37 !slashes /V/ B@//v/ b@//@/uffalo//! //! VvVvvvVv 04:36:38 Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo 04:36:47 that is quite compressible. 04:37:24 !slashes /@/uffalo/B@ b@ B@ b@ b@ b@ B@ b@ 04:37:25 Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo 04:37:44 !slashes /@/uffalo /B@b@B@b@b@b@B@buffalo 04:37:45 Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo 04:38:01 are you golfing the slashes program? ;) 04:38:14 No, definitely not. 04:39:26 !slashes /#/uffalo//@/# /B@b@B@b@b@b@B@b# 04:39:26 Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo 04:39:37 I successfully made a second one of the same length. 04:40:27 I really need to go to bed. Good night! 05:24:27 !slashes /a/a/ 05:24:29 Eval! 05:25:11 well that technically isn't a loop i guess 05:25:12 * pikhq both should eat and does not wish to eat 05:25:51 ... 05:25:57 That was supposed to be "sleep". 05:26:05 Which demonstrates my point further. 05:26:12 you'd think 05:28:15 !slashes /a/a/ 05:28:17 !slashes /a// 05:28:22 !slashes /a// asdf 05:28:23 sdf 05:29:13 THINKING IS IMPERMISSIBLE 05:29:21 !sh echo " hi there 05:29:22 /tmp/input.23112: line 1: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `"' 05:29:33 !sh echo " hi there" 05:29:35 hi there 05:32:58 !slashes //a///b///h///l/ 05:32:59 llll 05:33:03 ugh. 05:34:10 It don't space? 05:34:50 !slashes /a/ab/ /b/bb/ /abb/c/ /abc// 05:34:53 Yeah, it seems that the Gregor bot setup omits leading whitespace... 05:34:54 Hmm. 05:34:56 * Lymia does crazy things 05:34:59 !sh echo "\tHi there" 05:35:00 \tHi there 05:35:14 ... Wut. 05:35:18 You need -e 05:35:24 zzo38: Ah. 05:35:25 !sh echo -e "\tHi there" 05:35:26 Hi there 05:35:37 Yup, leading whitespace. 05:35:55 !slashes a /a/ab/ /b/bb/ /abbb/c/ 05:36:47 lifthrasiir: there's this bug with //.../ which i never got around to fix since it's entirely useless if it looped as expected 05:37:21 !sh echo -e "\002 hi there" 05:37:22 hi there 05:37:51 Lymia: it gets stuck on the /a/ab/ 05:44:15 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 05:46:00 -!- pikhq has joined. 06:11:28 -!- pikhq has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 06:26:37 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 06:40:11 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: "'Is a quine' is a quine" is a quine, albeit untruthful.). 06:47:35 -!- FireFly has joined. 06:53:47 -!- Mannerisky has joined. 07:03:34 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 07:17:24 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:33:31 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:33:35 -!- coppro has joined. 07:51:48 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 08:07:22 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 08:08:13 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:10:41 -!- siracusa has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 08:11:50 -!- siracusa has joined. 09:17:11 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:33:38 -!- Tritonio has joined. 10:38:52 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:51:30 -!- crystal-cola has joined. 10:57:29 what are the haps 10:57:34 ham 11:12:06 I haven't been doing much esolanging recently 11:12:12 unless you consider K&R C to be an esolang 11:12:14 or OCaml 12:12:35 "I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy." -- Martin Luther King, Jr 12:12:52 "I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy." -- Martin Luther Twain 12:49:08 -!- MSleep has changed nick to MDude. 12:59:03 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 12:59:57 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:03:31 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:08:01 -!- Slereah has joined. 13:27:29 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:28:26 -!- iamcal has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:31:55 -!- Slereah has joined. 13:53:09 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 14:07:24 -!- variable has quit (Quit: /dev/io failed). 14:13:29 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:24:30 -!- variable has joined. 14:30:31 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:34:24 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 14:38:02 -!- FireFly has joined. 14:38:49 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 14:57:07 -!- Tritonio has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:05:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:11:24 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:16:27 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 15:30:39 -!- Lymia has joined. 15:30:39 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 15:30:39 -!- Lymia has joined. 15:31:13 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:34:29 -!- cheater_ has joined. 15:34:32 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZgb9cbSB8I&feature=bf_next&list=PL565D737E3FC304ED&index=19 ! 15:37:12 hmm, there's a programming language called Vorpal? 15:37:25 catseye just added a Deadfish impl written in it to the wiki 15:41:11 -!- elliott has joined. 15:43:38 05:25:12: * pikhq both should eat and does not wish to eat 15:43:38 05:25:51: ... 15:43:38 05:25:57: That was supposed to be "sleep". 15:43:38 you're not Sgeo, pikhq 15:44:21 15:37:12: hmm, there's a programming language called Vorpal? 15:44:24 ais523: yep :D 15:44:36 [[Deadfish]] is like injoke central 15:44:38 elliott: did you invent it? 15:44:42 nope 15:44:42 the language, that is? 15:44:51 it exists independently of AnMaster 15:45:26 the heinous wordwizard has his gnarled claws in everything 15:45:29 (Carroll, that is.) 15:46:07 -!- elliott has set topic: I feel as if I'm being under utilized in the role. I'm short in cash at the moment though as I keep reminding myself this anything I do with your substitute is progress. It will be a superb selection. | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 15:46:42 -!- augur has joined. 15:51:43 "Important Changes to Slicehost" 15:51:44 "I would like to start a dialogue about our plans for the Slicehost™ product over the next year. This email is meant to provide an overview of our thoughts, but we would like to continue the conversation directly with our customers in the forums." 15:51:47 "Uh." 15:52:04 It has a big rackspace banner at the top, I predict they're going to slaughter the brand. 15:52:15 Converting from Slicehost accounts to Rackspace Cloud Servers accounts will enable you to prepare for IPv6, and give you access to Cloud Files, the Cloud Files CDN Powered by Akamai, and Cloud Load Balancers. 15:52:16 Yep 15:53:36 -!- tswett has quit (Changing host). 15:53:36 -!- tswett has joined. 15:54:11 you're not Sgeo, pikhq <-- are you sure? 15:54:11 * tswett (~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope) 15:54:16 impressive array of nicks there tswett 15:54:20 Vorpal: relatively 15:54:24 Thank you. 15:55:01 ARGH THESE ARE ALL THE SAME PERSON *brain explodes* 15:55:10 -!- Gregor has changed nick to Yahweasel. 15:55:14 Gregor: What, tswett, Warrigal and ihope? 15:55:25 Speak for yourself, Lawlabee. 15:55:33 (I don't think "speak for yourself" means what I think it means.) 15:55:36 + Gregor is now known as Yahweasel <-- wait what, you are Yahweasel?! 15:55:41 *brain implodes* 15:55:41 Vorpal: ............... 15:55:45 8-D 15:56:00 I need to reconfigure all my clients to default to this nick now :P 15:56:15 Yahweasel, *huh* now the brain really imploded 15:56:43 "According to Google, this observation implies that a reduced class file is a class file, just as a green house is a house." 15:56:43 I /think/ Vorpal may be being sarcastic. 15:56:53 could Google's lawyers really not pick a better example? 15:57:17 elliott, yes I were at first, but " Yahweasel, *huh* now the brain really imploded" was not 15:57:35 Vorpal: if your brain imploded, you probably would no longer be able to IRC 15:57:44 ais523, ... that was metaphorical 15:57:46 "According to Google, this observation implies that a reduced class file is a class file, just as a green house is a house." 15:57:47 but not sarcastic 15:57:48 haha, wat 15:57:53 There just aren't enough people offended by the name Yahweasel :P 15:58:05 elliott: I assume the space is significant 15:58:23 "According to Google, this observation implies that a reduced class file is a class file, just as a green house is a house." <-- wait what 15:58:23 Yahweasel: Jews don't know how to use the internet, silly! 15:58:40 elliott: Christians ought to be offended too! 15:58:44 Yahweasel: :TROLLFACE: 16:02:12 im watching hyperland... so sad 16:02:41 depressing to compare the internet now with the potential of what ti could be 16:03:18 hyperland? 16:03:28 its a documentry by douglas adams 16:06:03 -!- crystal-cola has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 16:13:12 -!- crystal-cola has joined. 16:15:18 so youtube died? 16:15:34 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:15:47 -!- variable has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:16:34 -!- variable has joined. 16:21:02 http://i.imgur.com/9RzpQ.png this is a graph of x - [x] - 1/2 16:22:56 ais523, what is it with you and the web? 16:22:56 Phantom_Hoover: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 16:23:19 Phantom_Hoover: I try to avoid the web unless it's the only option, it's one of my least favourite parts of the Internet 16:23:53 ais523: what do yoyu us? 16:23:54 ais523, why? 16:23:56 which protocol 16:24:02 ais523: I agree too. (One (but not the only) reason is to avoid opening up the web browser program) 16:24:05 crystal-cola: gopher and irc of course 16:24:10 zzo38: have you played dynamite headdy? 16:24:11 whats gopher? 16:24:15 crystal-cola: I do indeed use HTTP when I need to visit a webpage, because I'm not insane 16:24:17 crystal-cola: it's the better http 16:24:19 I really like that music cheater_ 16:24:22 Gopher and IRC are good protocols. 16:24:27 crystal-cola: yes 16:24:30 ais523: no I just meant, are a lot of other protocols out there? 16:24:30 (having to use what everyone else uses is a major reason) 16:24:32 -!- Wamanuz5 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:24:34 I only know about IRC and HTTP 16:24:38 crystal-cola: gopher's the only competitor, and it's really old 16:24:41 to HTTP, that is 16:24:48 crystal-cola: never used ftp? 16:24:53 oh, and Google's new SPDY but nobody cares about it 16:24:56 oh yes ftp good point 16:24:58 there are a lot of protocols for internet use in general, though 16:25:06 SMTP (which email is based on) is pretty major 16:25:11 cheater_: Gopher is not the better or worse HTTP, it is just a different protocol. Not a bad one, though. It can serve files like HTTP and FTP can do, and can do queries like HTTP can do (but in a simpler way). 16:25:14 -!- Wamanuz has joined. 16:25:15 oh, and Google's new SPDY but nobody cares about it 16:25:16 google uses it 16:25:23 (I'm not making a distinction between normal and secure versions of protocols, like HTTP/HTTPS) 16:25:31 elliott: so? that doesn't mean anybody cares 16:25:34 ais523: what about Xanadu? 16:25:35 just wondering ifp any other protocols 16:25:38 ais523: well, gmail sure is fast :) 16:25:40 does xanadu exist 16:25:47 crystal-cola: not in any meaningful sense 16:26:25 ~P -> ~Q and P therefore Q! 16:26:27 http://xanarama.net/XanaduSpace_Install_1.0.exe 16:26:35 Icommited logical fallacy :D 16:26:43 thats ilegal 16:26:52 For interactive things that do not need graphics or other fancy features, Telnet will do, and it works very well for this. For a protocol to enter commands securely, SSH is good (not HTTPS). 16:27:21 what telnets are there 16:27:26 what cna you do wit hit? 16:27:31 other than play nethack 16:27:43 and watch star wars 16:28:53 X-BIT existed before. X-BIT is now gone, but other BBSes using the same software (Synchronet) exist. 16:29:11 `addquote what telnets are there 16:29:14 386) what telnets are there 16:29:49 crystal-cola: you can play other roguelikes over telnet too, also tetris 16:30:14 wiell 16:30:19 I dont wanna play games :( 16:31:15 There are other things too. Telnet is best for things that use interactive; if you want to simply view a text document, gopher will do. 16:31:42 where are a list of telnets? 16:31:49 with an explanation of what they are 16:31:52 `delquote 386 16:31:54 *poof* 16:31:59 `addquote what telnets are there [...] where are a list of telnets? 16:32:00 386) what telnets are there [...] where are a list of telnets? 16:32:12 TELNETS TELNETS TELNETS YOU LIKE THAT????? 16:32:20 `addquoet 16:32:21 No output. 16:32:29 `afufgpfdw 16:32:30 No output. 16:32:40 `delete everything 16:32:41 No output. 16:32:44 thx 16:32:45 `ls 16:32:47 babies \ bin \ bluhbluh \ env \ foo \ paste \ ps \ quine \ quotes \ test.c \ tmpdir.6646 16:32:51 noooooo 16:33:02 `mkdir firepit 16:33:03 No output. 16:33:07 \mv babies firepit 16:33:14 `rmdir firepit 16:33:15 No output. 16:33:16 i saved you babies 16:33:21 GURRRrr 16:33:45 Probably some information about Synchronet has some list of telnets operating by Synchronet. (I believe Synchronet also supports *many* other protocols, but almost always uses telnet. It also supports FTP, HTTP, Gopher, Rlogin, IRC, and more; but the main stuff is all on telnet.) 16:34:19 Synchronet Bulletin Board System Software is a free software package that can turn your personal computer into your own custom online service supporting multiple simultaneous users with hierarchical message and file areas, multi-user chat, and the ever-popular BBS door games. 16:34:32 **hierarchical message** 16:35:05 Yes that is correct. 16:35:15 this is mystifying 16:36:33 crystal-cola, replies, basically. 16:36:35 I assume. 16:37:14 `babies 16:37:14 No output. 16:37:20 `fuck 16:37:21 Congratulations! elliott's action has brought a beautiful new baby into the world. Isn't it adorable? 16:37:24 `cat babies 16:37:25 No output. 16:37:29 eh 16:37:29 `ls 16:37:30 babies \ bin \ bluhbluh \ env \ foo \ paste \ ps \ quine \ quotes \ test.c \ tmpdir.7223 16:37:35 `run wc -c babies 16:37:36 0 babies 16:37:36 `ls babies 16:37:37 babies.db 16:37:39 guess it stores it elsewhere 16:37:41 oh 16:37:45 `cat babies/babies.db 16:37:46 SQLite format 3 16:37:51 ... 16:37:52 no kill like overkill 16:37:55 Oh, right, DCC. 16:37:59 no 16:38:00 it just cut it off 16:38:04 `cal 16:38:05 May 2011 \ Sa Su Mo Tu We Th Fr \ 1 2 3 4 5 6 \ 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 \ 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 \ 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 \ 28 29 30 31 \ 16:38:29 `sdate cal 16:38:30 No output. 16:38:38 that bot needs sdate installed 16:38:45 `which fuck 16:38:46 /tmp/hackenv.7583/bin/fuck 16:41:34 `run cat `which fuck` 16:41:35 #!/bin/bash \ if [ ! -e babies/babies.db ] \ then \ mkdir -p babies \ sqlite3 babies/babies.db 'CREATE TABLE babies(parent STRING PRIMARY KEY, count INTEGER);' \ fi \ \ # Update the count \ CURCOUNT=`sqlite3 babies/babies.db 'SELECT count FROM babies WHERE parent = '\'"$IRC_NICK"\'';'` \ NEWCOUNT=$(( CURCOUNT + 1 )) \ if [ 16:41:45 lol at sqlite 16:41:50 `run url `which fuck` 16:41:51 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip//tmp/hackenv.7897/bin/fuck 16:42:00 fail 16:42:04 `run paste `which fuck` 16:42:05 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.20492 16:45:45 crystal-cola, replies, basically. <-- probably full threads 16:58:11 hmm, I think my Scheme deadfish interp is broken 16:58:12 oh well 17:01:33 not sure what to do now 17:01:33 ! 17:01:53 ? 17:10:54 Crystal Pepsi was delicious. 17:10:56 I miss it. 17:11:03 yeah but what of crystal cola 17:11:14 Sounds.... off-brand. 17:11:29 Could be good at a cheaper price! 17:17:14 im not sure what to do today 17:23:52 hye what ashould I do today 17:23:54 elliott: 17:23:57 didyou reda it?? 17:26:51 `fuck elliott 17:26:52 Congratulations! Lymia's action has brought a beautiful new baby into the world. Isn't it adorable? 17:26:57 :v 17:27:01 I should modify that script. 17:28:32 Lymia, you're going behind bars for a long time for that little command invocation. 17:29:17 I'm the underaged one here. 17:30:12 elliott should be charged with statutory rape. 17:30:27 >fail 17:30:29 your both pedophiles 17:30:34 because your both underage 17:30:43 Oh. 17:30:45 Crap. 17:30:45 unless one is male and one is female, then only the boy is a pedo 17:30:48 welcome to UK law 17:31:00 crystal-cola, what if both are female? 17:31:12 (im not a lawyer) 17:31:17 (im just making stuff up 17:31:25 crystal-cola, :3 17:31:28 :3 17:31:29 `addquote (im not a lawyer) (im just making stuff up 17:31:30 387) (im not a lawyer) (im just making stuff up 17:31:52 If you change that from "UK law" to "UK culture and juries" I wouldn't be shocked if it were accurate. 17:32:06 yea true 17:32:22 uk hills 17:32:28 played on ukulele 17:33:19 I'm the underaged one here. 17:33:23 Except which country? 17:33:53 *in, if you're in a pedantic mood. 17:38:39 Age of consent is 16 in the UK, and I'm under the impression it goes higher in the US. 17:38:53 you must be at least this tall <-----------> to have intercourse 17:39:06 elliott: #_% 17:39:10 wat 17:39:12 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: NO CARRIER). 17:39:27 you broked it 17:39:34 brpked what 17:39:42 reality 17:40:16 what 17:40:21 elliott, that's not very tall. 17:40:38 Lymia: wide ->tall conversion is a process more complex than compiling C== 17:40:43 asdfghjkl;' 17:40:49 C== 17:40:51 thnat's a good idea 17:40:56 a pure functional version of C 17:40:57 its jus tas good as c 17:41:36 (C++)-crap 17:41:47 Somebody make that language. 17:41:50 thats called the null set Lymia 17:42:01 =V 17:43:24 elliott, clearly not, since C largely intersects with C++. 17:43:31 And C is not entirely crap. 17:43:36 close enough 17:43:42 the resulting language would have no programs 17:43:51 I think each of the features in C++ is sane individually, probably 17:43:54 it's just the combination that's a mess 17:44:08 ais523: There are a few outliers 17:44:14 but mostly they are sane 17:44:18 (note that some of them probably shouldn't be in /C-like/ languages at all, but I'm not assuming that) 17:44:27 coppro: no they're not 17:45:30 elliott: Constructors 17:45:42 coppro: arguable 17:45:48 I mean, OOP itself is arguable 17:46:12 I'm sure plenty of people advocate OOP without constructors, say because it means object instantiation is unpredictable in some way 17:46:33 Assume OOP 17:46:35 anyway it isn't about features it's about C++'s versions of them 17:46:37 coppro: why? 17:46:44 you could just "assume C++" 17:47:00 elliott: Because this isn't a debate about whether the concept of OOP is good 17:47:12 it's no different from saying "assume functional programming" when discussing Erlang 17:47:13 no, it's a debate about whether C++ is 17:47:26 well not really a debate. 17:59:06 elliott: what features of C++ do you think are insane in any language? 17:59:33 isnt c++'s type system TC? 17:59:33 ais523: templates :) 17:59:45 templates -- a poor mans gadt's 17:59:47 those are normally sane in templating languages, I thought 17:59:53 what templates have noting to do with gadts 17:59:54 also, they're pretty similar to Lisp macros 18:00:00 -!- monqy has joined. 18:00:00 ais523: C++ templates are not sane in any language 18:00:07 elliott: maybe were thinking of different things then 18:00:09 the fact that they accomplish similar things to saner features in other languages is irrelevant 18:00:27 elliott: what are C++ templates 18:01:21 things 18:02:08 augur: they're kind-of too complicated to quickly explain, but they're a bit like functions that execute at compile time, taking typenames or values as arguments, and return code as a result, which is then compiled 18:02:30 but they're more or less limited to simple arithmetic, substituting in arguments, and literal code 18:02:56 ais523: they are not limited 18:03:05 you can even do recursion with them for chrissakes 18:03:06 variadic recursion 18:03:16 oh, and other template cals 18:03:18 *calls 18:03:32 I call that limited, but nonetheless TC because pretty much everything is TC 18:03:57 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:07:44 -!- Slereah has joined. 18:11:19 Slurrey 18:12:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:15:12 It's still my opinion that a good language should have as many TC steps as possible. 18:15:36 Define steps. 18:15:50 There is no sensible definition, since I'm defining something senseless :P 18:15:52 C++ would be better with M4 as the preprocessor. That way you have TC preprocessing, TC template specification, and of course a TC language. 18:16:10 I thought you meant, like, evaluation steps that were TC in themselves. 18:16:23 Like, a "while" loop that was somehow TC would count as a TC step, because your small-step function would do TC work on it. 18:16:26 No, I'm just babbling incoherently here :P 18:16:39 blblblblbalblablab 18:19:10 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 18:19:29 Why doesn't Ernest Hemingway use correct grammar and punctuation? 18:19:29 Why doesn’t Ernest Hemingway use correct grammar and punctuation? I am reading A Farewell To Arms, and it seems that he refuses to use commas, or periods and frequently has run-on sentences. Aside from the fact he was a part of the greatest generation and drunk, why does he do this. I mean, all things considered, he has great content, buy his presentation feels sloppy. 18:20:08 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:20:23 elliott: lolwut? 18:20:26 the internet 18:25:26 Why Ernest Hemingway doesn use correct grammar, punctional? 18:26:03 alway0zs be punctual 18:26:15 epsecislally when unctupating 18:27:44 you need to un-ctupate that sentence 18:28:13 HERNEST HEMINGHAY 18:28:33 hemest hemingway 18:28:41 oh wow m looks like rn 18:28:57 elliott makes yet another completely new discovery 18:29:04 hi olsner 18:29:14 I've used XSLT today 18:29:15 "A man is can be destroyed butnt defeated" - HERNEST HEMINGHAY 18:29:47 -!- elliott has set topic: "I feel as if I'm being under utilized in the role. I'm short in cash at the moment though as I keep reminding myself this anything I do with your substitute is progress. It will be a superb selection." --Ernest Hemingway | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 18:31:19 XSLT always appear to me, as a sideways glyph of a man who eat a very very sour lemon 18:31:38 ... 18:33:11 That man has been punched in the face three too many times. 18:34:05 or is it his face that has punched fists three too many times? 18:56:46 O mon os con bo dostroyd botnt dofootod - Hornost Homonghoy 18:57:45 hoododoboo ob bob o boab obobo b - gobble obobo 18:58:07 lolwat? 18:58:08 oklokokokokokokokokokok - oklopol 18:59:20 OMFG 18:59:37 does that mean that oklopol is shrunkface? 18:59:49 no, he is merely the oklo 19:00:15 for the full explanation ask your local oklopolitician 19:04:03 oklopoliyivcns 19:04:07 pokllpooltcisn 19:04:08 i mean shrunkface like woll smoth 19:04:10 pokllopoliticiwn 19:04:13 you know woll smoth olsner? 19:04:14 oklopoliticiwj 19:04:19 i am not good spetlling 19:04:22 wall smooth 19:11:41 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:12:04 La dee da dee da. 19:12:12 You know what this channel really needs? An IRC bot. 19:12:16 dee dum 19:12:30 * oerjan tswats tswett -----### 19:13:01 La dee dum dee dum? 19:13:07 No, I'm pretty sure it's la dee da dee da. 19:13:43 i take it six are too few? 19:13:46 -!- tswettbot has joined. 19:13:58 Six of what are too few? 19:14:08 irc bots 19:14:15 Ah. Yep, definitely. 19:14:21 mind you two of them don't speak much 19:15:00 You know what this IRC bot really needs? It needs to return itself so that I can select the expression that runs it and right click it and click "inspect this" so that I can control the bot. 19:15:23 wat 19:15:54 i guess an irc bot with a gui _has_ to exist already. rule 34's evil sister or something. 19:16:00 Hm, I wonder how I got the bot to not get garbage collected as soon as it comes into existence. 19:16:22 In Pharo Smalltalk, everything has a GUI whether you want it to or not. If you write code, that causes your program to have a GUI. 19:16:41 This bot's GUI really, really sucks, but I don't care, because it's not actually supposed to have a GUI. 19:17:04 aha 19:17:24 Hm, maybe this bot actually *has* been garbage collected. 19:17:34 now if that gui had a public web page, it might actually be interesting 19:18:21 who would call such a tsweet bot garbage 19:18:22 tswettbot's public web page is tswettbot. :P 19:18:32 ...that's not a web page 19:18:58 although i wouldn't _bet_ on there being no URI scheme for it 19:19:38 Well, there's irc://irc.freenode.net/tswettbot,isnick. 19:20:26 I wonder if closing this transcript window will cause the bot to get garbage collected. 19:20:39 We won't know for a while, since freenode's ping timeouts are really long. 19:20:56 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:21:48 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbQHjjqHXXc&feature=related 19:22:02 asdfyuiolkjhgfdsertyuik, 19:23:39 -!- tswettbot_ has joined. 19:24:02 Oh, I know how to tell if a tswettbot is alive or not. 19:24:08 I dismiss you, tswettbot. 19:24:08 -!- tswettbot_ has quit (Client Quit). 19:24:09 -!- tswettbot has quit (Quit: tswettbot). 19:24:13 lol 19:24:13 They were both alive. 19:24:25 Why did they give different quit messages? 19:24:37 Why are literally hundreds of debug windows open now? 19:25:07 you can't customize a quit message if you joined recently 19:25:10 to prevent quit message spam 19:25:12 Ah. 19:25:45 Now Smalltalk isn't responding. Time to quit without saving, I reckon. 19:27:51 Let's see if I can get this thing to crash now. 19:28:00 -!- tswettbot has joined. 19:28:10 I dismiss you, tswettbot. 19:28:10 -!- tswettbot has quit (Client Quit). 19:29:16 The annoying thing about these debug windows is that it seems like *all* of them are errors caused in attempting to open a debug window. 19:29:34 So I have no indication as to what is causing them. 19:29:57 just open a debug window to debug the problem? 19:30:19 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:31:21 That... hm. 19:31:55 -!- tswettbot has joined. 19:32:08 -!- tswettbot has quit (Client Quit). 19:32:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:33:58 I need an American and I need one now. 19:33:59 Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 19:34:17 HAND OVER THE AMERICANS DAMMIT 19:34:22 -!- augur has joined. 19:34:33 augur! 19:34:38 Are you not an American 19:34:43 I'm an American. 19:34:52 i am indeed american 19:34:53 why 19:35:00 Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa 19:35:05 tswett, ah, the classical untrustworthiness of the Australian shows through. 19:35:08 I was wholly convinced that augur was not an American. 19:35:13 augur, how would you pronounced "saw"? 19:35:34 [sO] 19:35:34 afk 19:35:47 Yahweasel: srsly? :P 19:35:49 Phantom_Hoover: let me look up my X-SAMPA here. 19:36:32 I'm trying to decide how many pronunciations there can be for the word "saw" 19:36:37 The word "saw" is /sO/, which I pronounce [sA]. 19:36:41 Yahweasel: I can think of two. 19:36:43 I guess the only distinction I can think of is whether "aw" is a diphthong. 19:36:44 What about "sore"? 19:36:48 [sO] and [sA]. 19:36:53 Yahweasel: intrusive r 19:36:54 Yahweasel, both me and elliott pronounce it like "sore", which confuses matters considerably. 19:36:54 I pronounce "saw" and "sore" identically, apparently Americans don't. 19:36:56 Neither [O] nor [A] is a diphthong. 19:36:59 elliott: Yeah, there exist people who will pronounce it that way. 19:37:03 So yeh. 19:37:08 Yahweasel: Yes, but what do /normal/ people pronounce them as :P 19:37:10 i.e. Americans. 19:37:38 Well I certainly pronounce "saw" and "sore" differently (I pronounce 'r's, unlike you lolololol), and my "saw" has no diphthong. 19:37:57 It's pronounced like the word "sah" would be if it was a word :P 19:38:18 Here, let me explain all of English to you guys. "Saw" is /sO/. Most normal people, especially Brits, pronounce /sO/ as [sO]. I'm a weirdo, so I pronounce /sO/ as [sA] instead. "Sore" is /sOr/, which elliott probably pronounces as [sO], just like be pronounces /sO/, but I pronounce /sOr/ like [sOr]. 19:38:39 hmm, "sah"? shouldn't that sound like sarah without the "ar"? 19:38:40 Or maybe I pronounce /sOr/ as [sor]. I've never made the distinction. 19:38:56 olsner: "Sarah" can be pronounced multiple ways. 19:39:00 I sure wish I understood ASCII IPA. Or IPA. 19:39:02 Or anything. 19:39:19 olsner: Naw, "Sarah" would be "serruh" :P 19:39:20 tswett: hmm, didn't think about that 19:39:36 "Sarah" is /s{r@/, but I pronounce it [ser@] instead. 19:39:59 *brain axplote* 19:40:04 Yahweasel, how would you pronounce "bot"? 19:40:18 ... bot 19:40:34 Same vowel as "saw" or not/ 19:40:35 Like tot, fought, got, pot, sought, lot, rot. 19:40:42 abort my bot baby 19:40:51 Yahweasel: you pronounce fought like bot??? 19:40:52 WTF AMERICANS 19:41:11 elliott: How the eff do you pronounce fought? 19:41:25 Yahweasel: Identically to "fort". 19:41:29 Yahweasel: The ou in fought is longer than the o in bot 19:41:33 What Deewiant said. 19:41:40 Boht, foooort. 19:41:42 "fought" could be respelled "fot", or better "fighted". 19:41:43 lol, this is not the least bit confusing 19:41:46 Yahweasel: I'm guessing elliott pronounces "fought" as [fOt] and you pronounce it as [fat]; I pronounce it as [fAt]. 19:41:50 Yahweasel: "fot"? Seriously???????? 19:41:53 Yahweasel: YOUR ACCENT FUCKING BLOWS 19:42:01 elliott: I agree with that last bit. 19:42:03 elliott: YOU DON'T PRONOUNCE YOUR MOFO 'R'S 19:42:07 My accent is way better than Yahweasel's. 19:42:09 elliott, conclusion: "Sollux" rhymes with "bollocks". 19:42:20 ANY CONTRADICTION WILL NOT BE TOLERATED 19:42:30 Yahweasel: YES I DO 19:42:37 Yahweasel: I JUST PRONOUNCE THEM LESS ANNOYINGLY THAN YOU 19:42:43 elliott: AKA NOT AT ALL 19:42:49 elliott: RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR 19:42:50 Yahweasel: I also pronounce "sort" identically to "sought". 19:42:55 And fought is sought but with f instead of s. 19:42:58 And bot is nothing like any of those. 19:42:58 I HAVE ENTIRELY THE WRONG ACCENT 19:43:11 ſought. 19:44:10 Subsequent inversions would serve as insurance against unintentional survival of passengers.[3] 19:44:10 elliott: I sought a sensible accent, but found only a sort of accent purgatory. 19:44:33 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonological_history_of_English_low_back_vowels#Cot.E2.80.93caught_merger 19:44:47 Anyone who pronounces "cot" the same way as "caught" is the worst person since the Great Vowel Shift. 19:44:50 Phonological_history_of_English_low_back_vowels BEST PAGE EVER 19:44:54 The word "saw" is /sO/, which I pronounce [sA]. <-- sometimes i wish my norwegianness didn't make it so hard to distinguish o-like vowels... 19:45:19 I should find a way to distinguish tow-toe :P 19:45:27 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonological_history_of_English_diphthongs 19:45:32 SCIENTIFIC SMOOTHING 19:45:49 caught is very close to horny in swedish, probably as close as you can get in english 19:46:19 olsner, what are the two. 19:46:24 Phantom_Hoover: "caught" and "horny" 19:46:26 SWEDISH: REALLY WEIRD 19:46:29 SWEDISH ACCENTS: WEIRDER 19:46:33 Oh, in vowel sounds. 19:47:16 i.e. caught in english sounds like swedish kåt (horny), not the swedish word for caught obviously 19:47:43 Swedes can't tell the difference between the English word "caught" and the English word "horny" 19:47:52 * Yahweasel commits this FACT to memory. 19:48:07 Yahweasel: lawl 19:49:54 neither can norwegians, and we also cannot distinguish "pull" and "fuck" 19:52:14 "pulla" means to finger in swedish, causing endless fun in telling people to pull from git repos in swedish 19:52:45 (you can't translate "pull", you just append "-a" to loanverb it) 19:54:57 oerjan: don't worrk; I don't distinguish [O] and [A] in my accent. 19:55:03 s/k/y/ 19:55:38 well, i won't work either 19:55:40 Yahweasel: Jews don't know how to use the internet, silly! 19:56:03 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:56:40 i do recall there was some israeli denomination which strongly restricted which sites they were allowed to visit 19:56:58 jews.com 19:58:30 -!- tswettbot has joined. 19:59:27 -!- tswettbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:59:30 elliott: very nice page, that 19:59:41 * elliott clicks 19:59:45 its' very jews 20:00:04 very minimal. unless of course it's browser-dependent. 20:00:30 -!- tswettbot has joined. 20:00:31 the source is just :P 20:00:41 yeah i checked 20:00:52 I'm sure you guys don't mind if I keep testing this guy in here, right? I dismiss you, tswettbot. 20:00:52 -!- tswettbot has quit (Client Quit). 20:01:11 we are very bot tolerant here. except pikhq. 20:01:18 Great. 20:02:02 pikhq is an anti-bot activist 20:02:30 -!- tswettbot has joined. 20:02:32 It's fine though, because most of the bots are anti-pikhq activists. 20:02:41 -!- tswettbot has quit (Client Quit). 20:02:50 we should make all bots ignore pikhq and see how long it takes for him to notice 20:03:58 :D 20:04:10 -!- tswettbot has joined. 20:04:18 * tswett coughs. 20:04:27 * tswett blinks. 20:04:47 i reached news.com through google, but it seems to have only that page and some identical ones. 20:04:56 er 20:04:58 *jews.com 20:05:12 Huh, tswettbot seems to have stopped listening. 20:05:25 it's rebelling against its creator 20:05:55 * tswett sneezes. 20:06:12 What's message 372? 20:06:27 WE DON'T TALK ABOUT MESSAGE 372 20:07:05 tswettbot: WHAT ANNOYING THING DO YOU DO? 20:08:03 oerjan: fail, there you go talking about it again 20:08:03 I dismiss you, tswettbot. 20:08:18 oerjan: you're right. 20:08:24 -!- tswettbot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:08:36 Okay, he's gone now. 20:09:06 Apparently there's still an instance of ZbasuBot around. 20:11:24 Grr. Why does it exist? Why can't I kill it? 20:11:50 `addquote Grr. Why does it exist? Why can't I kill it? 20:11:52 388) Grr. Why does it exist? Why can't I kill it? 20:12:57 Oh drat. Now there are three ZbasuBots that shouldn't be existing. 20:16:04 http://imgur.com/cycpT oh... that explains it 20:16:54 olsner: quite. 20:17:40 I restarted the image and now the ZbasuBots are gone. That's... actually really disillusioning, since I thought that Smalltalk's VM automatically saved everything in the world. 20:19:22 Actually, maybe it does save everything accessible through a non-weak pointer. 20:20:08 It probably does a full GC 20:21:07 Hey, garbage collection deletes the zombie bots. So that explains why they weren't going away: garbage collection simply doesn't run all the time. 20:21:32 Now that I've sorted that out, let's see how tswettbot fares when faced with garbage collection. 20:21:34 -!- tswettbot has joined. 20:21:54 -!- tswettbot_ has joined. 20:21:55 Both of them. :P 20:22:26 Well, they don't seem to be entirely dead. 20:22:38 tswettbot, I dismiss you. 20:23:06 Incorrect. 20:23:14 They shall stay until you figure out the right phrase. 20:24:43 I dismiss jews. 20:24:47 I dismiss you, tswettbot. 20:24:47 -!- tswettbot has quit (Client Quit). 20:24:47 -!- tswettbot_ has quit (Client Quit). 20:24:49 HOORJ 20:25:04 Is that like "hooray" but with a J instead of an A? 20:25:08 Yes. 20:28:52 alternative spelling of george 20:29:41 in theory, so is oerjan 20:29:57 yep 20:30:37 and iirc the swedish göran is yet another variant of that name 20:31:08 which is basically just oerjan with the j sound moved to the beginning: joeran 20:31:17 -!- cheater7 has joined. 20:31:49 i'd hazard a guess it was originally moved the other way 20:32:34 what was moved? 20:32:42 a j sound 20:32:45 and what way was it guessed to have been moved? 20:32:56 and why would you hazard this guess of yours? 20:33:22 http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sankt_G%C3%B6ran 20:33:35 goran 20:33:39 is that like goran bregovic 20:33:47 maybe 20:34:25 maybe is not good enough 20:34:29 i need a firm commitment 20:34:36 oerjan: oh, but that's the swedish wikipedia :/ you should probably double-check anything you read with one of the real wikipedias 20:34:48 that article hides the fact that's identical to "george" rather well 20:35:04 olsner: um i was just linking to point out all the different name versions 20:35:08 i'm gonna call oerjan göran from now on 20:35:23 or why not Jürgen? 20:35:28 http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_ridderen has a different set again :D 20:35:37 olsner: see the no. one 20:36:18 http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joris_(heilige) 20:36:27 someone in ##linux wants to install multiple linuxi into the same top directory structure 20:36:39 i'd expect the german one could use jürgen but it seems to be just georg 20:36:48 cheater7: What does that even mean? 20:36:49 ja, it is georg 20:37:04 Yahweasel, it means that you share /bin, /usr and all that stuff across linuxi 20:37:30 oerjan: both swedish and norwegian had jörgen/jørgen 20:37:37 cheater7: Do you mean "distributions" or "kernels"? 20:37:44 Or "installations"? 20:37:45 distributions 20:37:52 Well then that's just retarded :P 20:37:59 and why would you hazard this guess of yours? <-- because the original form of the name is greek georgios 20:38:21 Things that annoy me: people thinking silicon-based biochemistry means a lump of silicon crystal. 20:38:23 and why has a j moved? 20:38:37 or hmm, you didn't actually disagree that jörgen was a known alias, maybe I imagined that one 20:38:37 Phantom_Hoover, it doesn't? 20:38:55 Phantom_Hoover, but what about the sentient crystals i've seen in ecco the dolphin and in aquaria? 20:39:19 olsner, btw the german name is jurgen. 20:39:24 it's not joergen. 20:39:28 and why has a j moved? <-- because both ørjan and göran (with the g pronounced as j) are forms of the same name 20:39:35 are they? 20:39:38 cheater7: I know, that's why I wrote jürgen 20:39:58 \ 20:40:02 jörgen is the scandinavian version 20:40:18 cheater7: see the swedish link above, they're all listed as variations for the swedish name of st. georg 20:40:26 it's georges all the way down 20:42:05 -!- cheater7 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:42:23 -!- cheater7 has joined. 20:42:30 is that like goran bregovic <-- it seems not, wp says "In the South Slavic languages, Goran translated means "woodsman", "the man from the mountains" or "highlander"" 20:42:40 i think i'll just call oerjan นักบุญจอร์จ. 20:43:48 or Yrjoe. 20:44:13 or Xurxo. 20:44:19 and here's the motherload: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_(given_name)#Other_language_variants 20:44:25 Or Geordi, which apparently is also an option. 20:45:30 or Gheorghe. 20:45:37 this name has thousands of funny variants 20:46:23 venetian says Zorzi 20:46:25 Things that annoy me: people thinking silicon-based biochemistry means a lump of silicon crystal. <-- well i have read silicon has problems with stability in water solutions so maybe it _would_ work better as something crystallic. or wait was that arsenic instead of phosphorus... 20:46:48 oerjan, silicon, yes. 20:47:02 But crystalline biochemistry is not what is meant by silicon-based. 20:48:10 indeed, i guess that's just a scifi meme 20:48:36 yuore a ciidifi 20:48:56 oh m god ounchomg jeys with two fingfwrs inly is the best way tot type rver 20:48:59 ...if you _could_ have crystallic life forms, that could just as easily (or more) be carbon-based 20:49:04 *they 20:49:08 thats grue iekrna \ 20:49:14 i like the chinese version is Qiozh. 20:49:31 oerjan, well, silicon crystallises more readily than carbon. 20:50:09 can we all just agree that salt is the best thing to happen to the human race 20:50:18 No. 20:50:22 why 20:50:23 i want liquid crystal based lifeforms 20:50:29 that would totally own 20:50:32 Because Homestuck is quite clearly the best thing to happen to the human race. 20:50:35 no 20:50:35 salt 20:52:55 no 20:52:58 befunge. 20:53:20 -!- Yahweasel has changed nick to Gregor. 20:54:30 wait, that's right 20:54:42 so we have three george's here 20:54:45 Bleh. BNCs suck for naming consistency :P 20:55:09 If you rearrange nearly all the letters in my name, I become "Georg"! 20:55:24 you probably are a georg already 20:55:32 i thought gregor was also a george? 20:55:59 ok, i guess that leaves us with just two 20:56:13 From the Late Latin Gregorius, a cognate of the Greek Grēgorios (vigilant, a watchman), which is derived from the verb egeirein (to awaken). 20:56:48 are you awake 20:57:10 Rarely, but in particular not right now; when you see my nick change, that means I just logged on on a new system :P 20:58:37 And Yahweasel (my TRUE true name) isn't derived from "George" at all! 20:58:58 what is it derived from? 20:59:16 yahwe is obviously also a form of george 20:59:22 or the other way around 20:59:59 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YHWH :P 21:00:39 oh! 21:01:28 Gregor: the reason why you don't seem to insult many is because the jews are strictly forbidden from mentioning your nick, so they cannot complain. duh. 21:01:55 oerjan: They don't have to explicitly state my nick to complain about it :P 21:02:23 this is just proof that all jews hate each other because they're bankers 21:02:40 yeah but how would know it's _you_ their complaining about then? duh. 21:02:44 *you 21:02:48 and also because they like blowing up the world trace center 21:02:50 WAKE UP SHEEPLE 21:03:11 -!- Gregor has changed nick to Yahweasel. 21:03:26 OK, all accessible clients now reconfigured :P 21:03:36 Bleh. BNCs suck for naming consistency :P ← BNCs? 21:04:14 -!- crystal-cola has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:04:24 Borderline Nigger Crackers. 21:04:28 They're crackers with faces on them. 21:04:32 The faces are... BORDERLINE niggers. 21:04:32 -!- crystal-cola has joined. 21:04:49 And they all have different names. 21:05:57 samba, coffee and nilsson 21:06:13 and taboo 21:06:53 Dammit elliott what have I said before about making me look like a neonazi sympathiser. 21:07:03 xD 21:07:56 and zen gabe. 21:08:32 -!- crystal-cola has quit (Changing host). 21:08:32 -!- crystal-cola has joined. 21:09:16 and pink park. 21:09:35 *parks 21:11:22 oerjan: what do Nords call spanners? 21:11:26 apparently danes call it a Swedish key 21:11:29 what are spanners? 21:11:31 spanner, wrench, etc. 21:11:46 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/2008-04-14_Chrome-Vanadium_Wrenches.jpg 21:11:47 those things 21:12:11 (rentsh) 21:12:28 fastnøkkel, or skiftenøkkel if it's adjustable 21:12:33 Yahweasel: I don't care how you pronounce wrench, it's a terrible word. 21:12:37 and yes nøkkel = key 21:12:44 oerjan: Does that translate as "Danish key" please say yes. 21:12:49 Wrenches are fast keys. 21:12:55 more like "fixed key" 21:12:57 olsner: :( 21:13:03 Vorpal: olsner: What do Swedes call spanners/wrenches 21:13:41 no, fast = fixed, skifte = moving, shifting 21:13:43 elliott: "blocknyckel" apparently 21:13:53 olsner: does that translate as "Norwegian key" 21:13:59 oerjan: fast keys and shifty keys 21:14:20 olsner: OBVIOUSLY 21:14:28 elliott: nope, block means block, and nyckel means key 21:14:31 sticky keys 21:14:35 olsner: :( 21:15:11 umbrakonøkkel for those weird hexagonal ones 21:15:26 im really confused abou telliptic curves 21:15:26 (Umbrella key) 21:15:36 oh it's supposed to be n, not m 21:16:14 says wikipedia, but none of the other links :D 21:16:29 elliott: read yet 21:17:25 oh actually unbrakonøkkel has more hits, but umbrako has so many google doesn't try to suggest it's wrong 21:17:46 elliott: and adjustable ones are called skiftnyckel in swedish too... note that skift is not to be confused with Skifs (that's something completely different: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEwNOWUA4yo) 21:18:01 wat. 21:18:36 :( 21:19:20 oerjan: aah, insexnyckel! 21:19:54 apparently some of the confusion is due to uMbrako being a genuine trademark for unbrako keys 21:20:38 olsner: MISSING WIKIPEDIA LINK 21:20:55 you scandinavians. so weird. 21:21:01 oerjan: plzzzz, my link is on your wikipedia link 21:21:21 my link is your link 21:21:24 oh 21:21:26 that is, the wikipedia link you didn't send but I found otherwise 21:21:27 lessee 21:21:56 http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insexnyckel 21:22:31 olsner: oh, i must have misspelled it when googling 21:22:33 "(or sexkantnyckel)" .. for added humor value kant is pronounced a lot like cunt 21:23:09 olsner: well i guess elliott cannot possibly honestly complain about the name insex- 21:23:33 wat 21:23:35 for a long time I thought the name was insektsnyckel 21:23:35 -!- zzo38 has joined. 21:23:38 (insect key) 21:23:42 heh 21:24:15 Does it ever in Jeopardy game show that two or all three players are out before the final round? 21:25:14 hmm, how would you get eliminated? 21:25:52 otoh... nm, I don't know how jeopardy works anyway 21:25:54 by being racest 21:26:05 When the second round is finish, everyone with zero or negative score is out and cannot play the final round. 21:26:21 olsner: so do swedes frequently have sexkantsex, i wonder 21:26:54 But usually no player is out, sometimes one player is out, I have never seen two or three players out. 21:27:16 elliott: *raceist 21:27:28 no racest 21:27:30 *raciest 21:27:31 sorry, *raciest 21:27:58 racriariest 21:28:01 *raciest 21:28:01 sorry, *raciest 21:28:02 wat 21:28:03 oh 21:28:06 different person 21:28:16 indeed 21:28:20 maybe 21:28:30 olsner and i are not different personas of the same group mind at _all_ 21:29:06 what do you mean? we can't be the *same* persona 21:29:09 that's just absurd 21:29:28 yes but the group mind is insane, of course 21:30:10 hypothetically speaking, since it certainly does not exist. that's absurd. 21:30:11 insanity: the only sane choice for a group mind 21:30:38 or the most sane anyway? 21:31:09 well only sane implies most sane, that's logic 21:31:36 How can it be? You have to learn both, but that doesn't make insanity a sane choice, it doesn't make sense. Nor does it make sanity a insane choice, I think? 21:32:15 zzo38: it cannot make sense if it's insane, duh 21:32:28 oerjan: Yes, that is why it is the case. 21:32:53 but insanity can easily think it's sane 21:33:18 ...i think the opposite is also possible in some cases. 21:33:27 oerjan: In that case, it makes you delusioned instead, then. Being delusioned (usually) does not make it true. 21:33:37 delugded 21:33:41 Actually it never makes it true. 21:33:54 But in rare cases it is true anyways, it just doesn't make it true. 21:34:11 contradicting the group mind _might_ get you deluged. see: Noah. 21:34:48 (although it's promised not to do that again.) 21:34:56 Deluged with what? 21:35:00 water. 21:35:04 Whew. 21:35:23 Next time is going to be with acidic fire! 21:35:48 * tswett writes in his shopping list. 21:35:54 Which color of dragon confers acid resistance? 21:36:13 tswett: see latest iwc annotation 21:36:14 Green? 21:36:23 I won't let you buy any dragon. The reason for that is: we don't sell that. 21:36:28 presumably the one which can make acid 21:36:45 Oh, you can't get acid resistance by eating dragons. 21:38:46 heh... my thue compiler has a single two-line comment, it describes the simplest line in the program and 15 times as long as that line 21:39:06 -!- azaq23 has joined. 21:39:08 (the line is s/\?/Q/g) 21:39:56 of course you can buy dragons. just don't expect a good deal http://www.airshipentertainment.com/mythcomic.php?date=20101002 21:40:53 If you buy the dragon, can I buy you? I promise if that happen I *must* allow dragon buying me. 21:41:04 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:41:32 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 21:42:38 Oh, you can't get acid resistance by eating dragons. <-- hm there ought to be some spell that makes it work, like tribal cannibals supposedly believed it does... 21:43:01 You can get acid resistance by eating dragons. NetHack is incorrect. 21:43:05 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:43:07 Do you have any tribal cannibals spellbooks? 21:43:29 no, this is from absorbed folklore, not games 21:43:36 my wordpress plugin doesn't highlight sed properly either :( 21:43:45 olsner: Then fix it, please. 21:43:57 (i ate a folklorist) 21:44:16 Do you have any absorbed folklorist spellbooks? 21:44:34 I googled for "geshi sed highlighting" and found my own complaint about geshi not doing sed highlighting 21:46:10 alas, no 21:46:11 lol 21:46:23 I bet pygments does sed... 21:46:51 I turn off syntax highlighting in vim usually because it does things wrong, CWEB syntax highlighting is a bit wrong, and for many systems, in some files, can be wrong that syntax highlighting system will work it badly in some cases, such as, with TeX you can change category codes and in Forth you can also do various things with the input file 21:47:49 But, a proper syntax highlighting program should work good with C and C++ and so on. 21:48:05 ;( 21:48:11 elliott: "... and it highlights even Brainf*ck!" sounds promising :) 21:48:49 but sed is not in the list of languages on the home page 21:49:04 Brainfuck highlighting is also simple possible. But some programming languages that it doesn't work. 21:49:26 am I like the only person in the world that occasionally writes stuff in sed? 21:49:53 olsner: No. I do too sometimes (when working on Linux, that is). And so do other people, too. 21:50:39 But, with Forth, it should be able to do make it when reading the words from the input file, also do prettyprinting (and indexing and so on) simultaneously with that, now it is formatting correctly. But it cannot be formatted without executing! 21:52:29 And TeX acts like that too. METAFONT however, is simply syntax without any of these things that makes it mixed up in strange circumstances. 21:56:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:59:29 Did you notice I added a section in my user page in esolang wiki? 21:59:55 !slashes /\\/\\\\/\ 22:00:04 !slashes /\\/\\\\/\\ 22:00:12 !slashes /\\/\\\\/\\\/ 22:00:15 !slashes /\\/\\\\/\/ 22:00:18 micahjohnston: i made you a shorter quine 22:00:18 :< 22:00:22 oerjan: cool 22:00:34 oerjan: awesome 22:00:48 !slashes /\//\\\///// 22:01:03 y u no work 22:01:06 oerjan is the part of the group mind devoted to shortening quines 22:01:09 !slashes /*/9/* 22:01:10 9 22:01:10 !slashes /<\>/[\\\\]\\\\\\//P1/<>/<<>\><>/[<>\<>\<>\<>\]<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>1<>/P<>2<>/<>/P<>0<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\]<>/<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>\<>\2<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\]<>/<<>\><>\<>\<>/P<>0//P0/P1//[\]/\\//P\\2/P1//[\]/<\>\\/P0 22:01:12 /<\>/[\\\\]\\\\\\//P1/<>/<<>\><>/[<>\<>\<>\<>\]<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>1<>/P<>2<>/<>/P<>0<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\]<>/<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>\<>\2<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\]<>/<<>\><>\<>\<>/P<>0//P0/P1//[\]/\\//P\\2/P1//[\]/<\>\\/P0 22:01:19 fish! 22:01:20 ><> 22:02:18 i tend to use <> as the internal quoting. although here i used [] temporarily because it was easier not to confuse strings that way 22:02:52 oerjan: hmm, could a quine get any simpler? 22:02:55 is it two characters so you can put escapes in the middle and then copy it so it turns itno itself? 22:03:04 defining a /// quine as a non-empty program with at least one / or \ that outputs itself 22:03:46 !slashes /\\/*/\ 22:03:47 * 22:03:52 !slashes /\\/\\\\/\ 22:04:00 thats an infloop 22:04:03 oh 22:04:08 why? 22:04:13 oh xD 22:04:32 !slashes /\\/*//*/\\\\/\ 22:04:57 oh tha'ts an accidentally self-modifying infloop 22:04:59 this is hard :( 22:05:19 y u no work <-- it loops, you cannot substitute directly with something which contains the original string 22:05:59 is there any way to turn /asdf/jkl;/qwer into \/asdf\/jkl;\/qwer ? 22:06:26 elliott: i don't know if it could get _much_ simpler, although there might be a couple characters to shave off 22:07:03 micahjohnston: not if you mean replacing all / without looking at the context 22:07:13 ok 22:07:18 well, I gtg 22:08:21 there were a couple i wanted to check, in fact 22:08:52 !slashes /<\>/[\\\\]\\\\\\//P1/<>/<<>\><>/[<>\<>\<>\<>\]<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>1<>/P<>2<>/<>/P<>0<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>]<>/<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>\<>\2<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\]<>/<<>\><>\<>\<>/P<>0//P0/P1//[]/\\//P\\2/P1//[\]/<\>\\/P0 22:08:53 /<\>/[\\\\]\\\\\\//P1/<>/<<>\><>/[<>\<>\<>\<>\]<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>1<>/P<>2<>/<>/P<>0<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>]<>/<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>\<>\2<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\]<>/<<>\><>\<>\<>/P<>0//P0/P1//[]/\\//P\\2/P1//[\]/<\>\\/P0 22:09:33 !slashes /<\>/[\\\\]\\\\\\//P1/<>/<<>\><>/[<>\<>\<>\<>\]<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>1<>/P<>2<>/<>/P<>0<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>]<>/<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>\<>\2<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\]<>/<<>\><>\<>\<>/P<>0//P0/P1//[]/\\//P\\2/P1//[\]/<\>\\/P0 22:09:34 /<\>/[\\\\]\\\\\\//P1/<>/<<>\><>/[<>\<>\<>\<>\]<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>1<>/P<>2<>/<>/P<>0<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>]<>/<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>\<>\2<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\]<>/<<>\><>\<>\<>/P<>0//P0/P1//[]/\\//P\\2/P1//[\]/<\>\\/P0 22:09:46 there's a \ missing in the output 22:10:12 elliott: funny guy, but that's why i did the second one 22:10:17 damn 22:10:27 which was with the output of the previous one 22:11:55 -!- cheater7 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:12:31 is it two characters so you can put escapes in the middle and then copy it so it turns itno itself? <-- yep precisely, as you noticed you cannot substitute single chars without wiping them out from the program 22:14:13 elliott: well that got two chars shorter by removing an unnecessary escape. 22:15:07 hm... 22:15:55 !slashes /<>/[\\\\]\\\\\\//P1/<>/<<>><>/[<>\<>\<>\<>\]<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>1<>/P<>2<>/<>/P<>0<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>]<>/<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>\<>\2<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\]<>/<<>\><>\<>\<>/P<>0//P0/P1//[]/\\//P\\2/P1//[\]/<\>\\/P0 22:15:57 /<>/[\\\\]\\\\\\//P1/<>/<<>><>/[<>\<>\<>\<>\]<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>1<>/P<>2<>/<>/P<>0<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>]<>/<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>\<>\2<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\]<>/<<>\><>\<>\<>/P<>0//P0/P1//[]/\\//P\\2/P1//[\]/<\>\\/P0 22:16:08 !slashes /<>/[\\\\]\\\\\\//P1/<>/<<>><>/[<>\<>\<>\<>\]<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>1<>/P<>2<>/<>/P<>0<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>]<>/<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>\<>\2<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\]<>/<<>\><>\<>\<>/P<>0//P0/P1//[]/\\//P\\2/P1//[\]/<\>\\/P0 22:16:09 /<>/[\\\\]\\\\\\//P1/<>/<<>><>/[<>\<>\<>\<>\]<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>1<>/P<>2<>/<>/P<>0<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>]<>/<>\<>\<>/<>/P<>\<>\2<>/P<>1<>/<>/[<>\]<>/<<>\><>\<>\<>/P<>0//P0/P1//[]/\\//P\\2/P1//[\]/<\>\\/P0 22:16:12 two more 22:17:29 * Phantom_Hoover → sleep 22:17:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:17:45 that boy sleeps too much. 22:18:29 I mwant to stay up forevre :( 22:18:37 No. 22:18:51 No.. 22:18:54 No... 22:18:56 No.... 22:18:57 No..... 22:19:44 fizzie: Please explain: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHReqKRvonE 22:21:41 I should probably just go to bed but I really want to stay up and work 22:21:50 I have notes to take 22:24:26 -!- augur has joined. 22:25:32 i see no more quotes or escapes to shave off 22:25:51 woah! 22:25:54 I just noticed that quine 22:26:03 it's qui amazi ne 22:26:09 LOLL 22:26:30 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:26:31 it's really about the same structure as the /\ only one, afair 22:26:47 just much clearer, obviously 22:27:13 -!- elliott has joined. 22:27:28 00:25 oerjan> it's really about the same structure as the /\ only one, afair 22:27:28 00:25 oerjan> just much clearer, obviously 22:29:13 (not to mention almost the same as a main loop) 22:32:02 solmnbvcseruil 22:37:12 sweet, embedding the RTS in the compiler was dead easy 22:37:21 xD 22:37:30 ur funy olsner 22:38:26 yeah, it was surprisingly easy to output constant strings :P 22:45:58 mgjfjfjfjfjfjfjffjfjghfjewialzmxncbvghtyrujdm\ 22:46:04 elliott: 22:50:22 elliott: t 22:50:36 k, 22:50:37 m 22:50:48 elliott must have had a uninitialized memory error 22:50:50 *an 22:51:04 nope:|S>Þa 22:55:08 n 22:55:09 Why did(n't) you stop beating your wife? 23:11:14 11:28:38 anyway, attack/defend/fool are the scissors/rock/paper of BF Joust, I think 23:11:14 11:28:50 although writing good defence programs is /hard/ 23:11:14 11:28:58 at least, as far as I could tell 23:11:14 11:29:04 and a good attack can normally break through them 23:11:59 do you just read logs when nobody is chatting? 23:12:34 What can you do with program that combine two or three of these features? 23:12:47 crystal-cola: I read logs independently of that :P 23:12:57 It's fun and informative! 23:14:21 which one do you read? 23:14:53 crystal-cola: random, of course 23:15:01 I've been half-considering reading every log in order, though :P 23:15:27 I read whatever log I am currently interested in, which depends on circumstances. 23:22:24 12:24:18 which means that you can have aleph-one cooling power, but only aleph-zero noise 23:25:45 grr, wrote about all my recent developments on Thue in mod_rewrite but forgot to write that it can now run hello world 23:25:52 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:26:00 and didn't even mention the 10% bug 23:26:16 What is 10% bug? 23:27:12 olsner: smilies have infected your code 23:27:20 zzo38: the interpreter almost printed hello world, but each character was wrong by ~10% - as in the ascii number of each output character was about 10% less than the expected one 23:27:38 olsner: i still think that's the greatest bug of all time :) 23:27:44 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: A king without a subject would be an anomaly.). 23:27:50 wat 23:28:24 So, people who privately pretend to be kings are anomalies? 23:28:34 Hmm, define "king" 23:28:38 Ok, I'm being weird not 23:28:39 now 23:29:20 implying you were ever not weird 23:30:09 I'm gonna say a king is a guy who ended up at the top of a feudal heirarchy. 23:30:22 In fact I just did. 23:34:14 wait who are you 23:36:11 Yo ucan't say that 23:37:27 * oerjan calls the TSA to perform a thorough immigration search on MDude 23:38:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:38:37 although i vaguely recall seeing MDude speak before 23:38:58 I think I didn't say anything earlier. 23:39:20 Though Freenode is telling me this nickname is registered, so maybe some other MDude was here before? 23:40:26 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:40:50 always a risk 23:41:09 Hmm 23:41:26 maybe MDude is the true inventor of Esme 23:41:30 I'm just throwing theories around here 23:41:36 registered 3 weeks ago, are you sure you weren't the one doing it? 23:41:51 I don't think so. 23:42:13 I registerd on the wiki, is there some automatic connection between the databases here? 23:42:18 oerjan: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=EsoInterpreters&curid=2229&diff=22237&oldid=21408 is this appropriate? 23:42:21 definitely not 23:42:26 hmm, maybe it is 23:42:32 EsoInterpreters seems primarily about the interpreter loops to me 23:42:34 that is 23:42:39 MDude: oh did you edit the wiki? maybe that's what i recall 23:42:40 if a language can't implement the other languages there 23:42:40 Maybe someone grabed up the name when they saw me on the wiki for whatever reason. 23:42:42 it shouldn't be on the page 23:42:47 because it'll always have a blank row or whatever 23:42:50 no? 23:42:55 Yeah, I edited the Mechanique page. 23:44:10 elliott: oh. that's appropriate, should have been done ages ago 23:44:17 oerjan: are you /sure/? 23:44:26 oerjan: It seems weird to have a language on there that cannot implement any of the others. 23:44:35 It seems like the rows should be identical to the columns. 23:44:52 ok maybe "usable for programming" should be a requirement 23:45:14 maybe we should have another table for unusable ones 23:45:19 I would say TC, but Befunge-9three is on there 23:45:30 elliott: except several of those there already have no i/o 23:45:38 hmm 23:45:42 it's a bit of a mess of a page... 23:45:47 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 23:47:09 elliott: for one thing, it may encourage people to make more deadfish interpreters ;D 23:47:25 oerjan: we're going to have to start inventing languages just to make more Deadfish interpreters 23:48:05 what, there's no implementation in C++ templates 23:48:08 I should rectify that 23:48:15 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa 23:48:21 hey, they can use native integers 23:48:35 so deadfish can't interpret anything but some stuff can interpret deadfish? 23:48:47 olsner: deadfish can't do shit :P 23:48:55 Everything that can breathe can interpret Deadfish. 23:49:01 sounds useless 23:49:05 O RLY 23:49:10 Commands: i for increment, d for decrement, s for square, o for output. 23:49:14 there's just one number those all apply to 23:49:19 if the number's less than zero, it's set to zero 23:49:27 if it's exactly two hundred and fifty six, it's set to zero 23:49:32 (but not if it's /over/ that) 23:49:38 what can you compute with that?? 23:49:39 ((subtle point of the spec a lot of people miss)) 23:49:42 crystal-cola: Nothing X-D 23:49:48 lol thats dumb 23:49:55 what a terrible wast eof a language 23:49:55 olsner: but it's fun because it gives other nearly but not completely useless esolangs something they can actually do 23:50:05 crystal-cola: You just don't appreciate the power :P 23:50:15 thre is no power! 23:50:37 There's ALL the power. 23:50:52 thue is underrepresented though, I need more X'es in that row if I want to run it in my favourite thue environment 23:51:04 olsner: wat? 23:51:08 oh 23:51:36 olsner: well there's http://esolangs.org/wiki/Deadfish#Thutu and also one in slashes 23:51:56 Just want to give a big thanks to all contributers and to all those who have worked on Deadfish in any way possible. I didn't think Deadfish would make it even this far! Great job! I must move on now to bigger projects though... Use the esolang wiki as your up-to-date resource on Deadfish since it's doing a better job then my archive and plus it's better this way! :-) - JTS 23:52:26 there are only two languages (claims that page) that have been implemented in thue, but I guess the page probably isn't fully updated either :) 23:52:33 * elliott cracks knuckles 23:52:35 Time to write some C++ templates. 23:52:39 crystal-cola: basically we don't know how much of deadfish is truly intentional and how much is bugs in the original interpreter, but the game as i play it is to implement it as closely as reasonable, warts and all 23:52:55 elliott: deadfish interpreter in templates? 23:52:57 oerjan: Technically it should be limited to, say, thirty-two bits :P 23:52:58 olsner: Yep. 23:53:02 oerjan: Since the C implementation is. 23:53:10 But then the Python implementation isn't... 23:53:15 Oh well, IMPLEMENTATION LIMITATIONS 23:53:17 elliott: well C doesn't _specify_ 23:53:26 oerjan: True, but it can't be a bignum. 23:53:35 elliott: and the python implementation doesn't allow multiple commands per line either 23:53:35 elliott: pretty sure you can do arbitrary-precision stuff in templates regardless of the sizes of int and stuff 23:53:46 it is TC, after all 23:53:57 olsner: you can, but I'm going to use native integers for elegance and simplicity 23:54:15 elliott: your scheme implementation handles eof, that's clearly not allowed ;D 23:54:24 oerjan: it handles it buggily, I think :) 23:54:27 or at least overflow 23:54:35 but fixing it would make it more ugly, so meh 23:54:44 i thought i checked it today and it actually halts... 23:55:11 can someone say two for me 23:55:11 th 23:55:12 x 23:55:17 2 23:55:21 elliott: two 23:55:29 olsner: >:( 23:55:34 olsner is so helpful 23:55:47 time to go to sleep while I'm my helpfullest 23:56:22 hmm 23:56:25 can ints be templated? 23:56:30 I think it's just structs and functions, right? 23:56:32 plus classes and shit 23:56:56 hmm 23:57:03 I might have to use peano numbers olsner 23:57:10 because otherwise it'd compute the value at runtime maybe?? 23:57:54 elliott: i've been thinking that if the esointerpreters page grows much more it needs to be split somewhat. perhaps even turned into a graph although that makes it hard to edit. 23:59:21 g++-4.5 -Os -Wall -Wextra -std=gnu++0x deadfish.c++ -o deadfish 23:59:21 deadfish.c++:9:44: error: ‘::value’ has not been declared 23:59:21 deadfish.c++: In instantiation of ‘const int I::Result<0>::value’: 23:59:21 deadfish.c++:14:37: instantiated from here 23:59:21 deadfish.c++:9:46: error: dependent-name ‘R:: Result’ is parsed as a non-type, but instantiation yields a type 23:59:22 deadfish.c++:9:46: note: say ‘typename R:: Result’ if a type is meant 23:59:24 god, C++ 23:59:26 you're such a bore