00:00:06 <ais523> Agora would never have been that sloppy
00:00:22 <coppro> ais523: this is pretty standard
00:00:36 <ais523> it's still ridiculous, despite being standard
00:00:46 <coppro> ais523: It gets more fun if they repeal that act
00:01:07 <coppro> Does it un-amend the other act?
00:01:16 <ais523> as they might do, as an act saying how to do a referendum on AV is a little irrelevant after the referendum's happened, and it doesn't give any provision for holding another one
00:01:26 <oerjan> blown up by the unamender
00:01:32 <coppro> ais523: It has other stuff in it
00:01:41 <coppro> plus they wouldn't repeal it just because it does nothing
00:09:42 <pikhq> This is a country which doesn't even repeal laws just because it's impossible to know what the law actually said when copies of it still existed. :P
00:26:25 <ais523> haha: the journalist here was interviewing a Lib Dem MP as to why the Liberals were doing so badly in this election
00:26:58 <ais523> and he said, more or less, that it's the first time in 70 years the Liberals were trying to do an election while actually in government, and they didn't have a lot of practice
00:28:41 <ais523> (1) A constituency shall not have an area of more than 13,000 square kilometres. (2) A constituency does not have to comply with rule 2(1)(a) if— (a) it has an area of more than 12,000 square kilometres, and (b) the Boundary Commission concerned are satisfied that it is not reasonably possible for the constituency to comply with that rule.
00:28:53 <ais523> isn't (2)(a) completely redundant there?
00:29:21 <ais523> as in, I don't think constituencies with areas less than 12000 square kilometers are particularly worried about also having to have areas less than 13000 square kilometers
00:32:41 <Sgeo> On the one hand, a girl kissed me, not on the lips, but close
00:32:58 <oerjan> um since when is (1) and 2(1)(a) the same thing?
00:33:13 <Sgeo> On the other hand, it was TA-TK. And there was a smell of smoke. Then again, the bus was crowded, it might have been someone else.
00:33:32 <ais523> oerjan: oh, good point
00:44:55 <ais523> hmm, how the hell did this law end up 287 pages long?
00:45:08 <ais523> I can hardly be expected to learn all the laws, so as to be able to comply with them, if they're that long
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00:46:29 <ais523> bleh, it seems that Birmingham overwhelmingly voted No in the AV referendum, despite my attempts
00:46:43 <ais523> we just have to hope that other parts of the country are saner, now, but I don't have much hope
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00:50:54 <EgoBot> Use: !bfjoust <program name> <program> . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/
00:51:13 <ais523> ooh, see if you can beat slowpoke
00:53:42 <oerjan> ^def prefixes (Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?)S
00:53:42 <fungot> Usage: ^def <command> <lang> <code>
00:53:47 <oerjan> ^def prefixes ul (Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?)S
00:54:35 <oerjan> ^addinterp prefixes underload (Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?)S
00:54:40 <oerjan> !addinterp prefixes underload (Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?)S
00:54:40 <fungot> oerjan: it considers the two possible cases
00:54:41 <EgoBot> Interpreter prefixes installed.
00:54:46 <fungot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?
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00:54:47 <Sgeo> Is the AV thing Britain, or some other ... thing similar, such as UK, or what?
00:54:52 <EgoBot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?
00:55:05 <EgoBot> Use: !bfjoust <program name> <program> . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/
00:55:13 <variable> !bfjoust testing_something (>+<)
00:55:21 <EgoBot> Score for variable_testing_something: 4.3
00:55:21 <pikhq_> Sgeo: Britain is an island.
00:56:12 <oerjan> `echo 'echo \'Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?\'' >bin/prefixes
00:56:12 <fungot> oerjan: i entered and was greeted with a cough and " thief." in there.
00:56:14 <HackEgo> 'echo \'Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?\'' >bin/prefixes
00:56:15 <ais523> hmm, if you have a lot of time and want to lose faith in humanity: http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/102687/Electoral-reform-question-testing-full-report.pdf
00:56:31 <oerjan> `run echo 'echo \'Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?\'' >bin/prefixes
00:56:32 <fungot> oerjan: thus the build broke.
00:56:41 <ais523> pikhq_: but the adjective of "UK" is "British", which is really confusing
00:56:44 <oerjan> `run chmod +x bin/prefixes
00:56:45 <pikhq_> Also, England could be said to have no parliament.
00:57:18 <pikhq_> (unlike the other constituent countries of the UK, it does not have a parliament of its very own.)
00:57:36 <ais523> although most MPs in the UK parliament are elected by English people
00:57:53 <ais523> variable: there's a description on the wiki, http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust
00:58:08 <ais523> but basically, (a{b}c)%n = (a)*n b (c)*n
00:58:19 <pikhq_> And as an odd legal formality, England has a parliament which just makes laws for the entire UK.
00:58:25 <ais523> the advantage of % is that it lets the brackets match correctly, as you can't have mismatched brackets
00:58:29 <oerjan> `run echo 'echo \'Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?\''
00:58:30 <fungot> oerjan: it may assume that these cells are dead unless otherwise specified. what do you mean
00:58:33 <ais523> pikhq_: it's more complicated than that due to devolution
00:58:44 <ais523> the UK government, some of the laws it makes affect the whole country, some affect only England and Wales
00:58:54 <pikhq_> ais523: s/makes laws/has the capacity to make laws/
00:58:54 <oerjan> `run echo 'echo \'Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo \`, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?\''
00:58:56 <ais523> and I think there may be a few thing that are England-only, too
00:59:01 <ais523> pikhq_: err, right, yes
00:59:14 <oerjan> `run echo 'Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?'
00:59:16 <HackEgo> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?
00:59:40 <pikhq_> The UK has such a *fascinatingly* complicated system of government.
00:59:53 <oerjan> `run echo '\'Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?\''
01:00:10 <oerjan> `run echo "Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?"
01:00:47 <variable> !bfjoust (>)*8([-]>)*3[.++-*10]+[[]]<<>([]-)
01:00:47 <Sgeo> "Some felt the sentence was long and they had to re-read it (often more
01:00:48 <Sgeo> than once) to be sure they had understood what it was asking and that
01:00:48 <Sgeo> they were marking the response they wished to. "
01:00:48 <EgoBot> Use: !bfjoust <program name> <program> . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/
01:00:53 <variable> !bfjoust kk_1 (>)*8([-]>)*3[.++-*10]+[[]]<<>([]-)
01:00:56 <EgoBot> Score for variable_kk_1: 1.0
01:01:12 <variable> !bfjoust kk_2 ([-]>)*3[.++-*10]+[[]]<<>([]-)
01:01:16 <EgoBot> Score for variable_kk_2: 13.9
01:01:40 * Sgeo decides that he's being "elitist" and shuts up
01:03:20 <Sgeo> Someone shouuld have made a website where people play with voting in both systems
01:03:21 <oerjan> `run echo "Bot prefixes: fungot \^, HackEgo \`, EgoBot \!, lambdabot \@ or \?"
01:03:22 <HackEgo> Bot prefixes: fungot \^, HackEgo `, EgoBot \!, lambdabot \@ or \?
01:03:34 * pikhq_ hates the term "elitist"
01:03:46 <pikhq_> Particularly as used in American politics.
01:03:53 <pikhq_> "HE WENT TO COLLEGE! THE ELITIST!"
01:04:04 <oerjan> `run echo "echo 'Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo \`, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?'"
01:04:05 <pikhq_> "I WANT ONLY MORONS IN OFFICE!"
01:04:06 <HackEgo> echo 'Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?'
01:04:16 <oerjan> `run echo "echo 'Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo \`, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?'" >/bin/prefixes
01:04:25 <oerjan> `run chmod +x bin/prefixes
01:04:45 <Sgeo> Well, questions for referrendums should probably be phrased so the lowest common denominator can understand them
01:05:12 <pikhq_> We should strive to increase the lowest common denominator, then, shouldn't we?
01:05:33 <oerjan> `run echo "echo 'Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo \`, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?'" >bin/prefixes
01:05:38 <oerjan> `run chmod +x bin/prefixes
01:05:56 <ais523> I'm reading this whole report
01:06:03 <HackEgo> echo 'Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?'
01:06:21 <ais523> the implication I get from it is that elections taken using AV would be decided essentially at random
01:06:32 <HackEgo> /tmp/hackenv.18692/bin/prefixes: error while loading shared libraries: /tmp/hackenv.18692/bin/prefixes: invalid ELF header
01:06:40 <ais523> due to the huge number of people misunderstanding the rules causing enough noise to swamp the signal from those who do
01:07:33 <pikhq_> At least, it can't be any worse than the damned people who seem to fail at "Pick one of the following:".
01:07:42 <pikhq_> (seriously, how the *hell* do you fail at that?)
01:07:46 <oerjan> `run echo '#!/bin/sh' | cat - bin/prefixes >bin/prefixes2
01:07:54 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ echo 'Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?'
01:08:13 <oerjan> `run mv bin/prefixes2 bin/prefixes
01:08:18 <ais523> pikhq_: typically, the results we've been seeing so far is around 100 spoilt ballots out of about 20000 votes total
01:08:19 <oerjan> `run chmod +x bin/prefixes
01:08:27 <HackEgo> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?
01:08:51 <pikhq_> ais523: Wow, Britons are much much smarter than Americans.
01:09:18 <ais523> also, only about 30 of those are typically an attempt to vote for multiple candidates
01:09:25 <ais523> the rest were mostly rejected for being blank
01:09:35 <ais523> or for being too ambiguous to tell what they meant
01:09:44 <pikhq_> ais523: Remember, the 2000 election came down to a debate over how to count poorly filled-out ballots.
01:10:12 <pikhq_> Whiiich was decided on the basis of "5 Republicans vs. 4 Democrats in the Supreme Court".
01:10:14 <ais523> (the way ambiguous ballot resolution works in the UK, is that the counters put ballots that aren't clear-cut into a separate pile, and the candidates agree who they're votes for or if they're spoilt, with some sort of tiebreak if they can't)
01:10:47 <ais523> (the candidates get to watch the count and can challenge the placement of any ballot if they want, although it seems unlikely anyone checks /all/ of them)
01:11:36 <ais523> (and if the election's close, the counters go over the piles again looking for miscounted votes, and they keep repeating it until the likely error becomes smaller than the difference in the votes; if there's only 4 votes in it or whatever, the counting can go to four or five rounds as everyone makes sure all the ballots are in the right piles)
01:12:57 <Sgeo> Seaside or AIDA/Web?
01:14:54 <ais523> wow, the BNP came above the Liberal Democrats in one of the seats in Wales
01:15:07 <ais523> that... makes no sense
01:15:17 <ais523> (Labour won it, but that was inevitable given the seat in question)
01:16:54 <ais523> “No, that means that .... let me think this right..... it just means that if everyone in the UK put an X, it means they don’t want the UK .... let me read this again ... that means no, they don’t want the UK to adopt the ....it means no, you don’t want the UK to have it. Does that mean there would be no MPs then?”
01:18:05 <ais523> now I'm trying to figure out why all the seats that have declared so far were held by Labour beforehand
01:18:11 <ais523> some sort of big coincidence?
01:18:23 <ais523> or are Labour voters faster at counting?
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01:24:12 <oerjan> `run echo \''test""`!'`'
01:24:24 <oerjan> `run echo \''test""`!'\'
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01:28:11 <ais523> I wonder how you apply to be on Electoral Commission focus groups?
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01:38:55 <ais523> coppro: ooh, good news in Somerset, it seems that the vote count is 2:1 in favour of AV there, according to people watching the count
01:39:39 <ais523> although the count's being done officially tomorrow, presumably some people couldn't resist starting to count it now
01:40:59 <ais523> Birmingham is apparently overwhelmingly against AV, though
01:41:02 <ais523> even though I voted in favour
01:42:04 <ais523> also, the animated election logo that the BBC uses is hilarious, because it shows a selection of constituencies as colored bars with who owns then, so it's nearly all red/blue/orange with one green bar because there's one Green Party MP
01:42:10 <ais523> and it looks really out of place
01:43:26 <oerjan> it isn't easy being green
01:44:04 <ais523> I was shocked when it happened, mostly because I had no idea that there was a constitutency where the Greens could actually win
01:44:18 <ais523> they were clearly targeting that specific constituency very strongly, though
01:44:42 <ais523> I'm reasonably certain they scoured the whole country to find the constituency where they were most likely to be elected, then focused all their efforts there
01:45:35 <ais523> it's no coincidence that the Green Party MP who was actually elected also happened to be the leader
01:47:05 <oerjan> well shuffling "important" people into "safe" districts happens in norway too
01:47:30 <oerjan> sometimes with a bit of protesting from the locals
01:49:16 <oerjan> although Venstre (no. Liberal democrats) who crashed in the last election managed to lose their party leader's seat but not a couple of the others
01:49:52 <ais523> coppro: some bad news: apparently the bookies are offering odds of 1-16 on FPTP winning, although they do get election odds quite wrong sometimes
01:50:07 <ais523> oerjan: the Greens didn't have any seats in the UK
01:50:11 <ais523> so it was a different sort of shuffling
01:50:24 <ais523> trying to shuffle someone into the seats most dangerous to the other parties, rather than safest for themselves
01:50:49 <ais523> last time Labour tried to shuffle someone into a really safe seat, the person who was there beforehand stood anyway as an independent and won, which is hilarious
01:51:03 <ais523> it seems that they liked the candidate in particular, rather than the party
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01:55:24 <oerjan> endangering larger parties doesn't work for tiny parties in norway, the 4% cutoff for "evening out" means the larger parties get their seats anyhow while the tiny ones _must_ win a county seat
01:56:25 <ais523> well, the UK is FPTP at the moment, so the practical cutoff is 25% for a party other than the main 3, and only if the main 3 are tied
01:56:31 <ais523> but it only has to manage it in one seat, not in the country as a whole
02:08:50 <ais523> wow are the SNP dominating
02:09:09 <ais523> I have a feeling that they wouldn't do awfully in England either, but they generally don't run there
02:58:02 <coppro> ais523: Our Green leader was elected in her own riding which was also the riding most likely to elect any green given the communities' (well-deserved, mind you) reputation for being 'hippy'
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03:29:58 <Sgeo> "I'm a canvas fro building HTML."
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03:37:05 * pikhq_ finally gets around to watching FLCL
03:37:18 <pikhq_> And I find myself singing along to the soundtrack.
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05:12:14 <myndzi> let me know if you figure out what exactly is going on
05:18:34 <pikhq_> Probably take me a while.
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07:56:13 <ObviosoXI> I've been hoping to catch some good discussion in this channel. In the three times I've tried, nothing has been happening
07:56:59 <oerjan> well this is about the worst time of day
07:59:22 <ObviosoXI> so why yall in here then if nothing is going on. Ir is it just that common to be in a channel when its dead
07:59:50 <ais523> IRC is often dead, people normally idle until a conversation starts up
08:00:07 <ais523> trying to start one yourself is the surest way to get a conversation going, but you have to be quite good at conversing to get it to continue
08:00:13 <ObviosoXI> could you reccoment any interesting channels?
08:01:31 <Slush-> ObviosoXI: conversation here seems to take place at night (at my local time)
08:02:03 <ais523> well, it's 9am for me at the moment, I've been up all night
08:04:39 <ObviosoXI> I've been thinking recently about all the different models of civilizations history that I have heard before
08:06:20 <ObviosoXI> of course different people perscribe to different naratives of history
08:07:08 <ObviosoXI> and in my experience, people tend to hold onto the models of history they were primarily taught or raised believing
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08:09:51 <ObviosoXI> but aside from explaining how people have and deal with these models
08:10:23 <ObviosoXI> what kind of models or history and/or reality do you all subscribe to?
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08:11:57 <ObviosoXI> just wanted to throw that question out there incase any one cared to share
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08:14:26 <ObviosoXI> what version of our human history are you fascinated by?
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09:04:12 <cheater_> <synth> cheater: how do i shot web? <cheater> well, first you need to get a bite from a radioactive tim berners-lee
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