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00:28:09 <zzo38> Is whoever wrote the PHP article a registered user or not? (If so, it can be moved to userspace since it definitely does not fit in the main namespace)
00:28:29 <zzo38> It appears to be AJF.
00:29:01 <zzo38> So, move the [[PHP]] article to [[User:AJF/PHP]] and remove links from the language list and joke language list (and all other lists); keep it in userspace only
00:30:05 <zzo38> I know it is deleted. However: (deleted "PHP": hmm, delete; what's suggested here is hardly esoteric compared to actual esolangs. (PHP has some bizarre features, but these are not them.) I'll give a copy of the page/history on request.)
00:30:08 * Sgeo wants Impractical Common Lisp
00:30:30 <elliott> zzo38: well, if ajf really wants that, he can ask
00:30:55 <zzo38> elliott: OK, I think you are correct about that. It makes sense that he can ask since it is his user page.
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00:33:04 <zzo38> I wrote some equations having to do with D&D this is one: $$\max\left(\left\lfloor{8\over n}\left((e+4)^2-c^2\right)\right\rfloor,1\right)+\min(a,2e)^2$$
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00:34:30 <zzo38> I noticed something in anarchy golf that seems to have changed, KEY? no longer works, it seems. I wrote a code to fix it, and I will post the code on #anagol channel as well
00:37:04 <zzo38> I will post it here too since that channel is not logged.
00:37:13 <zzo38> VARIABLE LAST-KEY : #KEY KEY ; : #KEY? KEY? ; : KEY #KEY LAST-KEY DUP @ -ROT ! ; : KEY? LAST-KEY @ 4 <> ; KEY DROP
00:37:18 * Sgeo falls in love with setf.
00:37:35 <zzo38> Sgeo: What is that?
00:38:11 <Sgeo> zzo38, Common Lisp's assignment macro. The way it can be used, though.. you can specify a form that refers to a place, and ... best to use an example, I think
00:38:23 <zzo38> OK, make example please
00:38:33 <Sgeo> Say you have an array a. (aref a 0) gets whatever's in 0, like a[0] in C.
00:38:44 <Sgeo> (setf (aref a 0) 5) will set it to 5.
00:38:57 <Sgeo> And you can define how setf works for your own functions.
00:40:19 <elliott> a lot of schemes have that.
00:47:21 <Sgeo> I don't think Racket does? And also as far as I can tell, Racket lacks nice um.. I think hot-swapping may be the wrong word.
00:47:28 <Sgeo> What Schemes have both?
00:50:47 <Sgeo> zzo38, I was asking elliott
00:51:00 <zzo38> Maybe elliott doesn't know either because they didn't answer.
00:51:43 <zzo38> I don't know very good at Lisp and Scheme.
00:51:56 <zzo38> Is there example to define how setf works for your own functions?
00:51:57 <elliott> what has hot swapping got to do with this and how does common lisp have this
00:52:06 <elliott> and in which ways aren't you a fucking idiot about this stuff
00:52:10 <Sgeo> elliott, I did say that hot swapping may be the wrong term
00:52:36 <Sgeo> zzo38, I was about to say it's more likely that elliott's fuming at me..
00:53:17 <Sgeo> elliott, I can compile and load files and they load into a running environment
00:53:51 <elliott> [dollar] any-fucking-thing
00:54:15 * Sgeo hits elliott with a trivial and not actually a good response counter-gcc
00:54:53 <elliott> the topic is common lisp vs. schemes
00:55:06 <elliott> give me one fucking scheme where you can't load files into an environment by passing them as an argument to load
00:55:55 <Sgeo> I was thinking Racket's IDE, tb perfectly h
00:56:18 <Sgeo> And please don't yell at me now that I see how wrong that is
00:56:27 <elliott> you mean the ide that has a repl
00:56:54 <Sgeo> And a bit for editing a file, and the REPL _restarts_ when you click Run
00:57:04 <Sgeo> Let me check that
00:58:58 <Sgeo> Yeah, IDE restarts the REPL
00:59:18 * Sgeo asks about it in #racket
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01:22:14 <Sgeo> I actually understand CL macros! Kind of
01:22:31 * Sgeo is vaguely aware of some unhygienicness thing with CL
01:28:13 <elliott> common lisp macros are unhygienic, the end
01:28:18 <elliott> enjoy five thousand gensyms
01:30:58 <elliott> someone type an exclamation mark
01:31:31 <Sgeo> I hope that that was an exclamation mark for emphasis, not to ignore me
01:31:59 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
01:32:59 <zzo38> Why is there strange characters on the EgoBot help file?
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01:41:48 <Sgeo> "Racket doesn't support changing definitions during a long-running program, generally"
01:41:52 <elliott> Gregor: just wait for the oerjan >:)
01:42:03 <Gregor> My response to oerjan is "Too bad. Welcome to 2011"
01:42:04 <elliott> Gregor: or, any irssi user
01:42:06 <elliott> Gregor: or, any irssi user
01:42:30 <Gregor> My response to any irssi user using irssi without Unicode support (really? It has none? At all? Even if you're in a Unicode-capable terminal?) is "Too bad. Welcome to 2011"
01:42:46 <elliott> Gregor: I VERY MUCH DOUBT terminals show that character as invisible.
01:42:50 <elliott> So lump in all WeeChat users too.
01:43:57 <Gregor> They may show it as a space instead of a zero-width space.
01:43:59 <Sgeo> I'm beginning not to see the parentheses!
01:44:00 <Gregor> But that's no big deal.
01:45:00 <elliott> Gregor: Wait, if all you want to do is to prevent people sending DCCs...
01:45:13 <elliott> if (text[0] == '\[one]') {send("lolno"); return;}
01:45:16 <elliott> And avoid all this mess X_X
01:45:24 <elliott> Since you obviously don't care about mid-line CTCPs.
01:45:28 <elliott> That would work perfectly :P
01:45:40 <Gregor> The ZWS at the beginning is unrelated to preventing CTCPs.
01:45:52 <elliott> Botloops are practically impossible now.
01:45:57 <elliott> The only ones you can do involve lambdabot.
01:46:00 <elliott> And we've already done that to death.
01:46:01 <Gregor> Until somebody brings in a new bot.
01:46:52 <elliott> Anyway, if it's unrelated, how come you said that's what the actual goal was?
01:47:05 <elliott> I guess you also filter out first-character-ones even with the ZWS despite that being pointless.
01:47:32 <elliott> Some kind of "!argh_ignore_the_next_line" seems nicer than making things screwy for copy-pasters everywhere (imagine `addquote) and even moreso for all terminal users, though :P
01:53:13 <pikhq> ... irssi has no Unicode support?
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01:53:42 <pikhq> ……irssiはユニコード出来ない？
01:56:32 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
01:56:42 <pikhq> Yup, no strange chars.
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03:03:34 <Gregor> pikhq: It starts with a zero-width space.
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03:22:46 <pikhq> Gregor: And I see no space there.
03:23:09 <Gregor> Then congrats, your irssi is not made of fail :P
03:24:58 <pikhq> It is very hard to get myself to study for the test tomorrow.
04:11:04 <elliott> why is my circadian rhythm so fail
04:15:35 <coppro> pikhq: what is the test on?
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04:28:29 <elliott> oerjan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-24-hour_sleep-wake_syndrome CONFIRM/DENY
04:28:39 <elliott> (obviously the reaction to having a broken circadian rhythm is to click every link on wikipedia recursively)
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04:33:50 <Sgeo> Common Lisp is starting to remind me of a criticism of PHP... inconsistently named functions, sometimes arguments are in a weird order
04:34:38 <monqy> I have far different criticism of PHP
04:37:11 <elliott> common lisp has functions with inconsistent argument order?
04:37:14 <elliott> the names are a bit archaic, but
04:38:16 <Sgeo> "By an accident of history, the order of arguments to GETHASH is the opposite of ELT--ELT takes the collection first and then the index while GETHASH takes the key first and then the collection."
04:39:09 <oerjan> elliott: well, i cannot confirm that mine is physiological
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04:46:31 <pikhq_> Why oh why is QI not on US TV?
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04:47:54 <oerjan> !echo ok now what _is_ this broken solution elliott keeps speaking about
04:47:55 <EgoBot> ok now what _is_ this broken solution elliott keeps speaking about
04:48:09 * oerjan sees nothing out of the ordinary
04:48:56 <pikhq_> oerjan: There's a zero-width space at the start of the line.
04:49:26 <elliott> wow it actually works for you? :)
04:49:33 <elliott> well it doesn't for zzo38 ;)
04:49:38 <elliott> (and it messes up copy-pasting for everyone)
04:49:41 <elliott> <pikhq_> Why oh why is QI not on US TV?
04:49:51 <elliott> injustice and the two-party system
04:50:00 <elliott> plus rampant crime and institutionalised racism
04:50:24 <zzo38> My computer it will display the character overlapping the colon for start of message
04:50:47 <elliott> pikhq_: Just pirate it, it's OK, I'm British, I'll talk to Stephen Fry and explain the situation, and he'll forgive you.
04:51:05 <pikhq_> elliott: I'm merely lamenting is all.
04:51:06 <zzo38> But even if it is doesn't, the other problems that you have described are still there.
04:51:58 <pikhq_> We should just replace all TV with Stephen Fry talking.
04:52:07 <elliott> god dammit homestuck it's been six days UPDATE
04:52:46 <elliott> oerjan: heh, the latest IWC annotation scared me into thinking DMM was about to go on a prescriptivist rant
04:55:24 <oerjan> yeah you were literally panicking
05:00:04 <zzo38> I read the log the reason for ZWS but another solution might be to add CTRL+O at the start? Will it work?
05:00:24 <zzo38> I know some IRC client might strip that from the display regardless of unicode, I think.
05:02:07 <oerjan> (there was a ^O in that when i wrote it)
05:02:25 <zzo38> Yes, it replaced with a period
05:02:48 <oerjan> ok so it actually got through
05:04:36 <zzo38> Doing CTRL+B twice would also work except that the channel mode tells it to strip some control characters (including CTRL+B)
05:04:55 <zzo38> What is QI, who is Stephen Fry, what is IWC annotation, and so on?
05:05:19 <elliott> QI is an excellent television show starring Stephen Fry who is an English national treasure and also the next Monarch (note: statement is false).
05:05:27 <elliott> IWC is Irregular Webcomic[exclamation mark], it is this thing
05:05:35 <oerjan> elliott: only the last word of it
05:06:30 <elliott> so guys in ten days when all the christians die what do we do :(
05:07:05 <oerjan> i guess we should have a small wake
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05:07:32 <oerjan> that sounds a bit heartless
05:07:58 <zzo38> There isn't anything *to* do, therefore nothing.
05:08:11 <zzo38> The other thing to do would be to figure out why it happen and prevent it.
05:08:15 <elliott> zzo38: well the US might need a new President.
05:08:27 <elliott> why it's going to happen is because it's the rapture, duh
05:08:31 <elliott> are you proposing we stop god?
05:09:18 <zzo38> No, I propose you stop in your own way. Such as, will stop being Christian work if you would rather not be dead? And anyone who does want to be dead (or to test it to see if this statement is in fact wrong) to become Christian instead.
05:09:57 <elliott> you mean if christians want to avoid going up to heaven
05:10:04 <elliott> they should become atheists and stop believing in the rapture
05:10:38 <elliott> what Hugh Laurie released an album
05:10:45 <zzo38> elliott: No, I mean, in order to test the rapture!
05:11:02 <elliott> (for zzo38: hugh laurie is this british person who pretends to be an american on television a lot)
05:11:09 <zzo38> And why do you think there is a rapture in ten days?
05:11:47 <elliott> zzo38: http://www.google.com/search?q=rapture+may+twentyfirst
05:11:50 <oerjan> i hear he pretends to be a doctor. isn't that illegal?
05:11:54 <elliott> zzo38: http://www.google.com/search?q=rapture+may+21st
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05:12:40 <elliott> oerjan: it's going to be really awesome when satan brings temporary peace
05:14:05 <pikhq_> elliott: That was Clinton, of course.
05:14:49 <elliott> no the rapture hasnt happened yet
05:17:08 <oerjan> maybe the rapture _has_ happened, but the number of real, honest christians is so small that no one noticed
05:17:08 <zzo38> No, you cannot know. Yes it is possible for the bad things to happen, such as global warming, global thermonuclear war, and all sorts of other things; that doesn't mean it happens in ten days from now, nor can you take it literally what it says in Bible because they were simply warning you (in general, not about any of the things that occur now because they wouldn't have known when they wrote it).
05:17:28 <zzo38> Or maybe even the magnetic pole changes, who knows.....
05:17:45 <oerjan> it was just chucked into the unsolved disappearance statistics
05:17:47 <zzo38> elliott: Yes, I believe you.
05:18:48 <oerjan> and then god got so depressed by the low turnout he cancelled the rest of the apocalypse
05:19:19 <elliott> omg wait atlas shrugged it out already
05:19:29 <elliott> i cant wait to go waste my time laughing
05:20:46 <oerjan> i thought you meant atlas shrugged out the apocalypse. would be just like him, you know.
05:27:21 <elliott> maybe the twenty-first is when sburb gets released...
05:27:47 <elliott> i would do numerology on five/twenty-three/eleven, but without number keys that seems like way too much of a pain also i'm lazy
05:29:34 <pikhq_> Maybe on May 21st, all the non-believers are lifted into atheist heaven.
05:31:24 <oerjan> maybe on may 21st, _all_ religions and life views become literally true, by the world splitting into hundreds of parallel worlds so everyone thinks most of the others have disappeared
05:31:49 <pikhq_> So, the one I'm in will keep on going?
05:32:19 <elliott> oerjan: hmm, I don't think that can happen
05:32:22 <oerjan> yes, but you will have some job developing a scientific explanation why all religious people disappeared
05:32:39 <elliott> oerjan: well that can perfectly well happen it's just exceedingly improbable...
05:32:46 <elliott> worlds are usually referred to as meaning just universes
05:32:51 <pikhq_> oerjan: No, no, no, I am presuming I'd be in the universe wherein no religious people disappeared.
05:32:52 <elliott> and it's not supernatural if it's in the universe
05:33:20 <oerjan> pikhq_: ok we shall need a good source of philosophical zombies, then
05:33:24 <pikhq_> Hrm, that makes less sense after typing it out.
05:34:31 <pikhq_> Oh, fuck off, you bastard.
05:34:55 <elliott> i was referring to "philosophical zombies"
05:35:09 <pikhq_> I was referring to "don't swear" devoid of context.
05:35:23 <pikhq_> As the idea of swearing at someone saying that amuses me.
05:35:28 <pikhq_> Much like your mother.
05:35:44 <zzo38> Does it mean that everyone who is not your religion is philosophical zombies?
05:36:03 <zzo38> And that nobody knows if this is the exact date or only approximate?
05:36:11 <elliott> THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS PHILOSOPHICAL ZOMBIES
05:36:19 <oerjan> zzo38: no if your religion _does_ support people disappearing miraculously, then philosophical zombies will not be necessary
05:36:27 <coppro> elliott: What about Zombie Socrates?
05:36:50 <pikhq_> Not to mention Zombie Kierkegaard and Zombie Kant?
05:36:55 <zzo38> oerjan: But what if it doesn't? And what if your religion is a different date?
05:36:58 <elliott> zombie kant is a huge kant
05:37:20 <elliott> hmm, re: "exact date or only approximate", how can we be sure someone didn't miscount a day or so in the middle ages >:)
05:37:22 <oerjan> zzo38: right the date might be a bit tricky
05:38:01 <oerjan> elliott: i wouldn't trust that Gregor fellow to get the calendar right, you know
05:38:04 <pikhq_> elliott: Astronomical records with dates.
05:38:14 <elliott> pikhq_: WHAT IF.......... ASTRONOMY IS LIE?
05:38:19 <oerjan> of course not, he's a dead pope
05:38:37 <pikhq_> elliott: What if everything outside of your mind is a lie?
05:38:42 <oerjan> for long enough that he's stopped smelling, i think
05:38:42 <pikhq_> elliott: Answer now, non-solipsist!
05:39:52 <zzo38> What if your mind itself is the lie?
05:39:55 * pikhq_ wonders what practical difference there is between nihilism and solipsism
05:40:02 <pikhq_> zzo38: COGITO ERGO SVM
05:40:04 <oerjan> they forgot to book the room but no matter since it doesn't exist anyway
05:40:29 <elliott> solipsism means something, nihilism doesn't :)
05:40:49 <zzo38> Which is philosophy if considering only yourself is lie and everything else does exists?
05:41:05 <pikhq_> zzo38: That's called "bullshit".
05:41:42 <pikhq_> By the very act of thinking, you can be sure that your own mind exists.
05:41:45 <elliott> oerjan: i'll say for the hundredth time: solipsist missionaries is the best idea ever :D
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05:42:06 <zzo38> pikhq_: But your thoughts are nothing except hallucination!
05:42:53 <elliott> PORK PORK PORK PORK PORK PORK PORK
05:43:34 <oerjan> zzo38: you can only be sure of those phenomena which are identical to their own illusion, which however includes many experiences
05:43:49 <elliott> <zzo38> pikhq_: But your thoughts are nothing except hallucination!
05:44:01 <elliott> "Your hallucinations are all in your mind! And your mind is a hallucination!"
05:44:11 <oerjan> (not the _causes_ of those experiences, but the experiences themselves)
05:44:47 <oerjan> and that is why cogito ergo sum is some approximation to valid
05:45:23 <elliott> cogito ergo sum is impressive in being one of the few things that just about everyone can agree with :)
05:45:50 <elliott> (the original surroundings of that statement, not so much)
05:46:21 <pikhq_> The statement *itself* ends up being the only thing that is really certain. So of course almost everyone agrees. :P
05:46:51 <pikhq_> Everything else is subject to fallible observation.
05:47:08 <oerjan> note that you cannot be sure that your thoughts are actually logical, you could just be imagining it
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05:47:34 <oerjan> but at least you have them
05:48:00 <elliott> the "ergo" part is probably the most controversial of that :)
05:48:06 <elliott> (see: rejecting logic itself)
05:48:19 <elliott> although, some asswipes will refuse to give "exists" a definition, but they're asswipes
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05:58:52 <augur> any spanish speakers? :D
05:59:08 <augur> or french speakers
05:59:09 <oerjan> several hundred millions, i think
05:59:44 <elliott> i wonder if ##linguistics exists :P
05:59:53 <augur> yeah but they're all lame
06:00:57 <pikhq_> augur: Afraid you're mostly finding Germanic speakers in here.
06:01:17 <augur> norwegian is good too tho!
06:02:11 <elliott> when he asks you how you pronounce something just lie
06:02:17 <augur> well i dont need pronunciation
06:02:25 <augur> pikhq_: thats swedish
06:02:32 <elliott> # (diff) (hist) . . Language list; 02:37 . . (-102) . . 109.230.217.91 (Talk) (, http://theteresapalmerbikiniwve.tumblr.com teresa palmer bikini, 304793, http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZODZ7R4ZGQDA5CALTMKHXB4HJI/blog/articles/281424 emily procter naked, >:-)), http://jessicabielsexsc)
06:06:23 <zzo38> I tried to invent notation for cricket matches, and it is very complicated.
06:08:42 <zzo38> There are many fielding positions, extras, way to be out (lose a wicket), hit ball, bounce, scores, etc that you need different styles of type and accent mark, telling which player it is, and a lot of stuff, requiring accent mark, superscript, subscript, etc
06:09:54 <augur> elliott: guten tag!
06:10:19 <elliott> augur: du ein lich fäthras
06:10:23 <pikhq_> "Snow showers before 9am, then rain showers between 9am and noon, then snow showers after noon. Some thunder is also possible." Forecast for tomorrow.
06:10:27 <augur> oerjan you're swedish, right?
06:10:35 <elliott> `addquote <augur> oerjan you're swedish, right?
06:10:38 <HackEgo> 404) <augur> oerjan you're swedish, right?
06:10:44 <oerjan> augur: nei eg er norsk
06:10:53 <augur> i dont remember who's who
06:11:01 <elliott> augur: verk immein Steinlichernbburgen
06:11:02 <pikhq_> augur: Ørjan Johansen is pretty clearly not Swedish.
06:11:19 <oerjan> Örjan Johansson would pretty clearly have been
06:11:47 <augur> norwegian boys are hot, btw
06:11:53 <pikhq_> Gosh, augur, how dare you not remember every detail of everyone's lives in here! :P
06:11:54 <augur> oerjan: whats your opinion on SATW
06:12:02 <augur> pikhq_: because you're not all oklopol
06:12:13 <oerjan> i might have an opinion if i knew what it was, although probably not
06:12:24 <augur> Scandinavia and the World
06:12:25 <elliott> i'm just sitting here laughing :))))))))))
06:12:51 <oerjan> sorry, no opinion there
06:13:15 <oerjan> except that the rest of the world _might_ suck even worse. maybe.
06:14:10 <elliott> this channel, btw. this channel.
06:16:08 <elliott> GOD DAMMIT HOMESTUCK UPDATE
06:16:08 <oerjan> ok that last one was a bit amusing
06:22:52 <augur> oerjan: which last one
06:23:21 <oerjan> (also the first one i looked at)
06:23:38 <augur> the one about weirdo icelanders
06:23:49 <oerjan> there have been reddit links before, naturally
06:28:11 <oklopol> i had this dream that i was a bald cop
06:29:59 <oklopol> last night i had a dream where i cuddled with this older lady and then in the morning her husband was pretty mad and took out a gun and then she numbed herself with some sort of injection and stuck a huge pipe in her mouth and drank water through it until she became a human size water bottle and exploded, destroying everything in sight
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06:30:22 <oerjan> let that be a lesson for you
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06:30:55 <oklopol> (she became an actual water bottle)
06:32:10 <oklopol> then i woke up and turned out i had been sleep destroying my apartment, everything was broken and scattered all over and the door was open and i couldn't close it and then i woke up again
06:32:33 <elliott> oklopol can you turn your dreams into a film
06:32:38 <elliott> they would be the best film
06:34:09 <zzo38> Maybe you can make film.
06:34:28 <oklopol> i do have some book making hopes and dreams, but the book would not be about my hopes/dreams
06:34:31 <zzo38> But for my dreams, it is strange often is the case it cannot be made proper film, you need book (at least at first)
06:34:59 <oklopol> so how many times out of ten would you say you fail to make the film and have to write a book instead?
06:35:21 <augur> oerjan: http://satwcomic.com/how-to-keep-friends
06:37:07 <zzo38> However, I have never made the film or the book of it, so not entirely sure
06:37:51 <oklopol> well i was trying to ask about the actual films and books you've made but apparently i failed
06:38:08 <oklopol> maybe i should've used past tense
06:38:54 <oklopol> so i was walking outside and suddenly this guy grabs my hand and yells "SODOM"
06:40:06 <zzo38> A lot of things about my dreams I failed to remember by now, unfortunately; but I did write down and type some of these things.
06:40:08 <oklopol> and i said let me give that some thought and his girlfriend found it very funny and then i bought this "learn the alphabet" game and it was a bit silly given that it was completely deterministic
06:41:30 <oklopol> zzo38: forgetting dreams is a sign of alzheimer's
07:11:21 <cheater666> hey nice, elliott's been trolling me again
07:11:39 <cheater666> i really admire the fact i'm such a kiln of emotion for him
07:14:49 <cheater666> he cares so much about me that at this rate anyone would start wondering if he's secretly in love with me or something
07:15:25 <oerjan> hey it's _i_ who keep getting marriage proposals from him
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07:15:48 <cheater666> yeah, but you know, every girl needs a husband and a *lover*
07:16:12 <cheater666> one to take care of the kids, the other to really put some heat in the love-life
07:16:28 <oerjan> well you're good at the heat thing it seems
07:16:59 <cheater666> we might uncover something we couldn't fathom.
07:17:24 <augur> oerjan: ok, ready?
07:17:42 <cheater666> augur, so what was your german language problemo?
07:18:25 <oerjan> cheater666: i think he pretty much excluded german
07:18:38 <augur> cheater666: i got some german data :)
07:25:53 <elliott> oerjan has too many window
07:33:15 <zzo38> To tell you why you cannot make a filmn of this dreams: Can a blank paper have words written on it (such as that is visible, not invisible ink or anything like that) but still remain blank at the same time?
07:34:59 <zzo38> Is it possible to be flying and not flying both at the same time?
07:37:54 <zzo38> Dreams are sometimes not first person
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07:38:12 <zzo38> And someone once told me they had a dream that ended in credits
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07:38:23 <zzo38> So, you can make a film ending in credits, too. But not these other things too
07:38:29 <monqy> one time I had a dream in second person
07:38:53 <monqy> also a few where the person changed a bunch
07:38:54 <zzo38> monqy: I have too but I remember no other details
07:39:59 <monqy> I also like self-contradictory dreams. good stuff.
07:40:50 <zzo38> Someone told me he had a dream where the doctor asked him if he had ever been to the moon. He had never been to the moon. The doctor then asked him to prove it, and that the doctor could not help him if he could never prove that he has not been to the moon.
07:41:06 <zzo38> monqy: I have also self-contradictory dreams (often at least part of it is as such)
07:42:13 <monqy> my most fresh dream is one where I'm at a soup contest and a chicken really wants to participate but he's disqualified so he becomes the judge. when all the soups are done and he's ready to taste them he just stares at the soup and then I become the chicken and I really want to make soup
07:42:38 <monqy> fresh as in in my memory
07:42:51 <monqy> not original or anything
07:44:09 <elliott> `addquote <monqy> my most fresh dream is one where I'm at a soup contest and a chicken really wants to participate but he's disqualified so he becomes the judge. when all the soups are done and he's ready to taste them he just stares at the soup and then I become the chicken and I really want to make soup
07:44:13 <HackEgo> 405) <monqy> my most fresh dream is one where I'm at a soup contest and a chicken really wants to participate but he's disqualified so he becomes the judge. when all the soups are done and he's ready to taste them he just stares at the soup and then I become the chicken and I really want to make soup
07:45:09 <zzo38> I remember one dream I had once there was a small hole in the floor that was appear and disappear rapidly, too small for anyone to fall into but we are still careful not to fall in the hole because apparently you can fall into the hole anyways
07:47:38 <monqy> I had another where I ran around the world (which is concave by the way) a few times, but then it started storming while I was at a beach, so I went into this tall blue building that had an elevator with a phone in it, and as I was taking the elevator, my parents called me and tried to convince me I was on drugs.
07:48:18 <zzo38> Another dream, we tried to fill the water container in fridge, when it was closed and open again, now there is orange pieces in it. That is no good; discard it and fill the water again. Now close, open and now there is no water, just bread.
07:48:52 <monqy> does it mean something
07:52:21 <zzo38> Once I had dream I tried to turn off the calculator, but it turns back on by itself in a few seconds or in a few minutes.
07:53:07 <monqy> a dream where I have a tradition of watching a bootleg garfield vhs where if I play it at midnight it's actually a recording of a television playing a garfield puppet show about human anatomy
07:57:29 <cheater666> i've had a dream where people weren't making things up
07:58:20 <monqy> I don't think I've ever had that dream.
07:58:48 <cheater666> yeah it's very visibly extreme make-believe
07:59:01 <zzo38> When dreaming, not only memory, but the very logic is differently............!?.........
07:59:23 <cheater666> someone wrote in an article once you can't read in your dreams
07:59:36 <cheater666> because that part of the brain isn't active
07:59:45 <cheater666> i remember reading a newspaper in a dream though
07:59:55 <monqy> maybe you were only pretending to read
08:00:09 <zzo38> Usually you cannot read in dreams, sometimes it is possible. But also sometimes it is faked because it is not even what it is!
08:00:15 <monqy> or magically interpreted the newspaper
08:00:34 <zzo38> Of course, you cannot actually read (or other things), because it is dream and they are not real papers, real words, etc
08:00:41 <monqy> I think lots of stuff is faked in my dreams :(
08:01:28 <monqy> in one of my dreams there was a telephone and when I tried calling on it, it was actually irc
08:06:04 <zzo38> I had a dream where we were going to play Dungeons and Dragons and we had radio machines and stuff for Dungeons and Dragons. There was different sections in different chapters, a compartment to put audio tapes in, a radio transmitter, a few rooms for puzzlement and some boxes on the bottom to keep creature types in.
08:06:33 <zzo38> I was unable to figure out why it didn't work. And then I realized that it needed electricity to keep the creature types in the boxes, so I put batteries in and then the machine(s) worked. It also had to be connected to a VCR, but the only reason for the VCR was to indicate the amplitudes. The VCR was connected to a TV. The TV had no use, neither did the audio tape compartments.
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14:25:36 <lambdabot> Phantom_Hoover: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
14:33:14 <Gregor> @tell Phantom_Hoover lol we ♥ leaving you messages
14:40:08 <Sgeo> zzo38, my wireless router turns itself back on after I try to turn it off sometime
14:41:37 <cheater_> Sgeo: make sure not to equip it with a robot body of superhuman abilities. it might be the beginnings of skynet.
14:42:41 <Gregor> @tell lambdabot I'll bet you have craploads of unread messages to yourself.
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15:23:01 <oerjan> ais523: you might want to check out Special:New pages, there are a number of undeleted spam creations, especially in the User: and User Talk: namespaces
15:23:37 <oerjan> sadly there seems to be no way to list all namespaces simultaneously there
15:23:55 <Phantom_Hoover> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/Sodium-3D.png
15:23:55 <lambdabot> Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
15:24:22 <ais523> things that we missed during the recent spam attack?
15:26:09 <oerjan> ais523: iirc most are in the first few namespaces but i _think_ i saw one in Category Talk:
15:29:12 <ais523> oerjan: got all of them, I think
15:29:18 <ais523> and there was indeed one in category talk
15:30:25 <ais523> hmm... it seems the source code for a common malware/trojan suite leaked
15:30:34 <ais523> and lots of people downloaded it and their virus scanners detected it as what it actually was
15:30:46 <ais523> I'm not entirely sure what the moral of the story is
15:33:44 <oerjan> ais523: so did you find a way to block the spam or did it just stop by itself?
15:34:50 <ais523> oerjan: I emailed graue, and suggested he added a CAPTCHA for all anon edits
15:34:57 <ais523> I haven't heard a response, but the spam stopped soon after
15:35:01 <oerjan> oh there wasn't already? ok.
15:35:02 <ais523> it might have been a coincidence, though
15:35:23 <ais523> there was a CAPTCHA on edits that added external links before, which kept out the majority of confused spambots
15:35:37 <ais523> but it just lead to a flood of moronic spambots that didn't even spam links
15:36:02 <oerjan> i wonder if they spam links just in a field we cannot see...
15:36:28 <oerjan> if so, maybe it would be an idea to block any edit which fills in an unknown field
15:37:37 <ais523> I can't implement that myself, though, I don't have the sort of access rights required
15:37:57 <ais523> all I can really do is the basic admin actions, protect/delete/block
15:38:39 <ais523> and editing permanently protected pages
15:39:21 <ais523> which we don't have many of, but there are some that hold things like the names of the tabs at the top of the pages
15:39:26 <ais523> and other such things that shouldn't be widely editable
15:41:38 <oerjan> @tell lambdabotch What about craploads of messages to slightly mistyped nicks, then?
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16:25:45 <cpressey> Deewiant or Vorpal around? I haz a Mycology question
16:25:45 <lambdabot> cpressey: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
16:27:06 <cpressey> Can you give me any insight into what this message is the result of: "u with a positive argument gives strange storage offset: expected (0,0)"?
16:27:36 <cpressey> Is it actually p'ing and g'ing to see if the storage offset has been changed, for example?
16:28:05 <Deewiant> No, it just uses u to fetch the storage offset that { pushed and compares it to (0,0)
16:28:49 <cpressey> So it's quite possibly indicative of a problem with { rather than u -- that's probably what I was missing.
16:29:19 <Deewiant> Aye, u by itself can't produce the storage offset from nowhere :-)
16:41:26 <cpressey> But in fact it does seem like it's u that's broken...
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16:47:38 <Vorpal> <cpressey> Deewiant or Vorpal around? I haz a Mycology question <-- Kind of
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16:56:41 <cpressey> Vorpal: Deewiant already answered it :)
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17:01:09 <EgoBot> Interpreter slashes deleted.
17:01:35 <oerjan> !addinterp slashes perl http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/ircslashes.pl
17:01:38 <EgoBot> Interpreter slashes installed.
17:04:31 <cpressey> oerjan: gedit highlights what it thinks is a syntax error in that script, btw
17:05:40 <cpressey> i think gedit is just not smart enough to understand the regexp, upon closer examination
17:06:26 <cpressey> oh, no, both of them. it probably doesn't highlight s!!! properly.
17:12:09 <Vorpal> cpressey, stupid editor
17:12:17 <Vorpal> gedit generally is I mean
17:12:38 <oerjan> !slashes http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/test.sss
17:12:39 <Vorpal> at least kate is somewhat better at syntax highlighting, and emacs is of course better still
17:12:40 <EgoBot> * ** *** **** ***** ****** ******* ******** ********* ********** *********** ************ ************* ************** *************** **************** ***************** ****************** ******************* ******************** ********************* ********************** *********************** ************************ ************************* ************************** *************************** **************************** *****************************
17:13:35 <fizzie> Emacs' perl-mode isn't very good at all when it comes to complicated pieces of perl; cperl-mode is better, but even that breaks down every now and then. (I don't think it loses much to Vim or such, though.)
17:14:03 <fizzie> I don't think perl-mode even does included POD comments at all, for example.
17:14:48 <fizzie> Something else didn't, and then it highlighted all keywords inside them.
17:15:00 <cpressey> Perl is pretty much a challenge to syntax-highlight correctly.
17:15:09 <fizzie> Maybe it was that SciTE thing.
17:15:24 <fizzie> (I used it because it had a reasonable .pdf syntax-highlighting export thing.)
17:16:10 <Vorpal> scite isn't that bad at all if you need something that happens to be installed on the windows computers at university :D
17:16:22 <Vorpal> (there is a severe lack of emacs there)
17:16:28 <fizzie> Well, at least the version I have here does seem to understand poddery; it even makes headings foldable and all.
17:16:40 <fizzie> Might've been an earlier version though, this was few years back.
17:16:54 <cpressey> yeah, Windows availability was a big part of the reason I started using scite
17:19:18 <cpressey> well, I am at a loss for this problem with { and/or u. My own tests seem to indicate they work as expected.
17:19:19 <fizzie> Oh right, it's the "foo(<<BAR); \n yadda yadda \n yadda daa \n BAR" sort of syntax that Emacs' perl-mode doesn't handle; it highlights keywords in the quoted stuff. cperl-mode fixes that particular deficiency.
17:21:09 <cpressey> why oh why can I not pipe a diff into meld? that would so rock
17:22:08 <fizzie> Probably because the diff doesn't contain the non-changed parts of the file, and meld wants to show those.
17:23:17 <cpressey> yeah... but it could, uh, mock them up :)
17:23:33 <cpressey> extrapolate them using one of those fractal neural net thingees!
17:24:01 <cpressey> or just assume all the lines contained '...', that's probably simpler.
17:29:27 <ais523> hmm, a spambot just sent me a string of literal
17:29:39 <ais523> as in, not even a nonbreaking space, or the entity for it, the string
17:29:54 <ais523> and it had no purpose, as it wouldn't even have been visible if it were a nonbreaking space, it was the only thing on the line
17:30:12 <cpressey> ais523, on the network, you must be liberal in what you accept
17:32:29 <oerjan> !slashes http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/counter4.sss
17:32:51 <EgoBot> \/\\/\\\/\\\\/\\\\\/\\\\\\/\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/
17:33:33 <ais523> I think it finshes when output reaches a certain length
17:33:40 <ais523> regardless of if the program is an infinite loop or not
17:33:57 <oerjan> ais523: no, but that's what i just changed the interpreter for
17:34:20 <oerjan> however that /\ only program is rather slow so i thought EgoBot would time out
17:34:26 <ais523> fizzie: the issue with cperl-mode is that it's overcomplicated and just breaks seemingly at random sometimes
17:34:32 <ais523> removing the syntax highlighting altogether somehow
17:34:40 <ais523> it is deterministic, I assume, but I haven't figured out the pattern yet
17:34:46 <ais523> although trailing whitespace seems to really drive it mad
17:34:51 <ais523> I fear it's trying to do parsing via regex
17:34:56 <fizzie> Yes, I've noticed it seems to be somewhat brittle.
17:35:15 <oerjan> ais523: it _does_ check for a certain length, but only after receiving a newline, which is really useless for irc...
17:35:29 <fizzie> (I've just lived with perl-mode.)
17:35:40 <oerjan> (unless Gregor has changed it lately)
17:35:49 <ais523> when I need to syntax-highlight a really complicated bit of Perl, I use Kate
17:36:22 <oerjan> never prints anything because of that
17:36:45 <oerjan> and anything which _does_ contain newline only gets the first line displayed in channel
17:37:34 <ais523> ofc, you can't type newline-containing Underload programs in anyway without using a pastebin
17:38:48 <cpressey> ok, so, Mycology tests the storage offset with: 0{2u0w0w} ... if I replace this with 0{2u..@@} it outputs "0 0 " and stops. But if I put debugging in the w instruction, it says it's comparing 0 to 14.
17:41:25 <cpressey> Deewiant: http://pastie.org/1889800 <-- I made fbbi say what the storage offsets being saved and restored are when { and } are executed. A previous } is not restoring (0,0) as the storage offset (even though there are no BADs before this one). Could it be there are multiple paths through the code, one of which missing this "teardown"?
17:42:23 <Deewiant> There should be only one all-GOOD path :-P
17:43:06 <Deewiant> But yeah, presumably one of those GOODs isn't actually so good and is missing something that's going wrong
17:43:32 <cpressey> $$$ BEGIN EXECUTING, assigned storage offset 14, 77
17:43:33 <cpressey> $$$ END EXECUTING, restored storage offset 14, 13
17:43:41 <cpressey> that seems to be where the S.O. becomes non-(0,0)
17:44:25 <cpressey> Hm. Anyway, I'm not sure, but I feel like I've made progress on the problem, so I'm going to put it down again.
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17:55:55 <oerjan> fixme.ch is obviously an oxymoron, it's swiss and so must already be working perfectly
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18:09:26 <fizzie> @tell cpressey Re melding a diff: http://p.zem.fi/ozt2
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18:52:13 <cpressey> Deewiant: there was an error in my implementation of } that Mycology didn't catch (it was still popping values, even when there is no SOSS and it's supposed to act like r,) but fixing that didn't change the weird situation with the storage offset :(
18:52:13 <lambdabot> cpressey: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
18:52:31 <cpressey> lambdabot, couldn't you just... /msg me that kind of notification?
18:53:24 <lambdabot> tell provides: tell ask messages messages? clear-messages
18:54:42 <cpressey> @set-message-notification /msg
18:56:29 <fizzie> The particular use-case is a bit ridickulous since you can just GIT_EXTERNAL_DIFF a script that runs meld on the paths git provides. And the script could be enhancamated to handle the case where there's multiple diffs in a single file, by printing the --- +++ headers in both files, for example.
18:58:34 <cpressey> yeah. it could also pay attention to the diff offsets and insert multiple '...' lines, enough to correspond to the length of the original file. cool stuff, still, though.
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19:13:33 <cpressey> now all i have to do is fix environment variables
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20:07:56 <augur> waiting to drive to annapolis
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20:18:25 <HackEgo> 347) <olsner> it is from 2002 though, I was younger then
20:26:24 <lambdabot> scodil says: dcoutts: rad. i'm actually using gtk2hs quite a bit now. its one of those deals where I'm writing prototype software for people who aren't really paying for it, so it will end up being
20:26:24 <lambdabot> the production software, so you'll probably be getting emails in 5 years asking "what is haskell and how do I install it?"
20:26:46 <lambdabot> eyeris says: grr... I hate the way every haskell tutorial brags about how easy strings are to use. They are only easy once you drink the koolaid.
20:27:42 <lambdabot> <wango|yeomius> says: do you like turing complete?
20:28:08 <Phantom_Hoover> I suggest we move HackEgo's entire database across to these poor unfortunates
20:29:28 <lambdabot> copumpkin says: [about learning Haskell compared to other languages] I learned X in Y time, but Z is taking much longer. Z sucks!
20:37:59 <monqy> http://www.timecube.com/
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20:40:30 <monqy> the vortex math website is a bit better formatwise
20:42:35 <Phantom_Hoover> What is it with Reddit and sticking *everything* on imgur?
20:42:41 <elliott> imgur was made by a redditor
20:42:41 <lambdabot> elliott: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
20:43:11 <Phantom_Hoover> It's a goddamn webpage. Did you know that you can link to those as well as imgur?
20:43:15 <monqy> I don't reddit. should I reddit?
20:43:15 <Vorpal> elliott, any news on the system spec
20:43:56 <elliott> Vorpal: I've been really busy, sorry. You might want to just go ahead and buy something; you can replace components incrementally, after all, in the long run.
20:44:58 <Vorpal> elliott, yeah I guess I will have to, but I actually will be really busy until Sunday (that is: [today,Sunday), that is, a semi-closed interval), so you have some more time.
20:47:15 <olsner> I wonder what I was talking about in that 2002 comment
20:47:47 <Vorpal> olsner, I would search logs for you, but they are not on this system
20:47:56 <elliott> olsner wasn't here in 2002.
20:48:13 <Vorpal> elliott, <HackEgo> 347) <olsner> it is from 2002 though, I was younger then
20:48:27 <Vorpal> elliott, it was a discussion about something from 2002
20:48:37 <Vorpal> (perhaps some software he wrote or something?)
20:48:45 <olsner> pretty sure I have all the logs laying around somewhere
20:49:14 <elliott> 23:43:26: <olsner> wtf, my boot loader/os project has a CVS dir that points to a cvsroot with a windows path
20:49:49 <monqy> the topic is from the spambots right? are those things still going?
20:49:56 <olsner> right, CVS. On Windows.
20:50:50 <olsner> yeah, but only by about 9 years. should've known better really
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21:00:13 <Phantom_Hoover> The channel didn't exist in 2002 beyond fizzie, surely?
21:00:20 <elliott> Of course it did... and what?
21:00:47 <Phantom_Hoover> It was just fizzie talking to all the alternate fizzies.
21:00:55 <elliott> Ugh, what's Gregor's old hg log URL?
21:01:00 <elliott> I need to clone it to get fizzie's two thousand and two logs.
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21:37:38 <Phantom_Hoover> I just made the mistake of reading the comments thread of a r/worldnews link critical of Israel.
21:40:06 <Phantom_Hoover> Basically I'm not even sure about that colony on Mars any more.
21:40:36 <Phantom_Hoover> Much more of this and I will lose faith not only in humanity but in all sentient life.
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21:45:37 * Sgeo looks at Gambit
21:47:11 <Sgeo> What Schemes don't suck?
21:47:16 <Sgeo> ^^not rhetorical
21:48:16 * Sgeo does not feel like writing a Scheme at the present moment
21:48:18 <Sgeo> Just using one
21:55:10 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, no such person
21:55:49 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, I am sorry who is the Creator Of Star Wars Acronyms For Sgeo's Love Interests here.
21:56:08 <elliott_> "Sgeo's Love Interests" is an awfully verbose way of saying "females".
21:56:23 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, well, could you key me in to who "IT-AT" is referring to, then?
21:56:40 <elliott_> You need to know all the programs to get a job.
21:56:43 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott_, well yes but as near we can tell he's never flirted with his stepmother.
21:57:01 <elliott_> If you make a Scheme, it will be bad for her; it'll be YET ANOTHER program she needs to know to get a job!
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22:12:05 <cheater666> * Cannot join #esoteric-minecraft (You are banned).
22:12:12 <cheater666> NOOOOOooooooooOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooo
22:37:49 <pikhq_> 3 tests down, 2 to go!
22:38:18 <elliott_> can you fit all those in before the rapture
22:38:52 <pikhq_> They're on the 16th and 17th.
22:38:58 <pikhq_> Well before the predicted rapture.
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22:44:45 <siracusa> When is the rapture predicted for?
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22:47:18 <elliott_> But it's OK, because we have After the Rapture Pet Care.
22:47:39 <elliott_> Whose site appears to be sadly down, probably because of Satan.
22:48:48 * Sgeo smiles at Chicken supporting SRFI-17
22:49:10 <Sgeo> (It's a Scheme equivalent to Common Lisp's setf... I think)
22:50:57 <elliott_> that can be done in like twenty lines Sgeo :)
22:51:29 <Sgeo> Aren't most SRFIs like that? Theoretically supportable in any comforming Scheme?
22:51:37 <Sgeo> I thought SRFIs include code to implement
22:51:41 <Sgeo> Maybe I'm just wrong?
22:52:01 <elliott_> Well, sure, but they don't all do things you can do in pure Scheme.
22:52:26 <elliott_> And of course you can't rebind the meaning of SET! in standard Scheme.
22:52:44 <elliott_> ; Use the LET* syntax scope extension in Twobit to let this SET! macro
22:52:44 <elliott_> ; reference the old definition of SET! in the second clause.
22:52:45 <elliott_> http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-17/srfi-17-twobit.scm
22:54:42 <Sgeo> I still don't get Scheme macros
22:55:38 <Sgeo> So are Common Lisp macros
22:56:06 <zzo38> I don't know either, but I don't know much of Common Lisp or Scheme anyways.
22:56:08 <Sgeo> It's been a while since I read about Scheme macros
22:56:22 <elliott_> So safe usage of Common Lisp macros is very hard, and requires lots of tedious GENSYMing.
22:56:55 <elliott_> The following article describes how to overload set! so we can do
22:56:55 <elliott_> (set! (if (< x y) x y) 3.1415)
22:56:55 <elliott_> (map (lambda (var val) (set! var val))
22:56:58 <elliott_> to change the values associated with the variables x, y and z. We can still use set! to mutate ordinary bindings as in (set! u (+ x y)).
22:57:01 <elliott_> http://okmij.org/ftp/Scheme/macros.html#map-set
22:57:09 <elliott_> So I guess you can override SET! portably.
22:57:12 <zzo38> Are they different from C macros? I think it is, but I don't actually know.
22:57:31 <elliott_> zzo38: Yes, they operate on ASTs, rather than tokens.
22:58:40 <elliott_> For instance, the AST of (+ 9 (/ 9 9)) is obtained by providing it as input on an appropriate port after calling the READ procedure.
22:59:04 <elliott_> It is a list whose CAR is the interned symbol with the name "+"; and those CDR is a list whose CAR is the number 9, and whose CDR is ...
23:00:17 <zzo38> OK I looked on Wikipedia the diagram helps, I think, and it also has a description which also describes it
23:00:47 <zzo38> elliott_: Yes now I can understand
23:01:07 <elliott_> Sgeo: Fun fact -- quote can be implemented as a macro; it is not a primitive.
23:01:46 <elliott_> Well, in a defmacro style system. http://okmij.org/ftp/Scheme/quote-as-macro.txt
23:01:48 <elliott_> Not sure about with syntax-rules.
23:06:53 <elliott_> Sgeo: http://okmij.org/ftp/Scheme/setf.txt oleg's scheme setf
23:07:28 <Sgeo> That's pre-SRFI-17
23:08:03 <Sgeo> Except it works differently... it goes based on the name
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