< 1305590520 626541 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-136-53.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1305590545 439470 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found this message in some public comment page: listen i cant get on the sight and i want my money back ive been trying since yesterday and its not my computer its the sight i wish someone would email me back melissa < 1305590578 68765 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that they gave no contact information, they certainly could get on the site (to post the comment), and they don't charge any money to access it. < 1305590896 810060 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reminds me that there was some big confusion once when google started returning a different result when you searched for the name of some big site (or possibly it was " login") < 1305590925 919846 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out lots of people go to sites by searching for them and clicking the first google result, always < 1305590938 967853 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a different top result < 1305591019 571771 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now people ended up on the wrong page, which had a comment section, and complained there that the site had changed and they couldn't find anything. or something like that. < 1305591084 971484 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.facebookloginhut.com/facebook-news/facebook-login-in-google/ < 1305591310 754607 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/facebook_wants_to_be_your_one_true_login.php was the site (lots of ads there) < 1305591750 80584 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1305591763 25259 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even use Facebook. I don't want to use Facebook. < 1305591796 496997 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I sometimes use OpenID login. < 1305593446 250539 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god... my professor wants me to call them. < 1305593456 86638 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1305593496 10223 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Uh, sorry, my phone is in the shop." < 1305593666 295791 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-136-53.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1305593689 185123 :TeruFSX2!~quassel@71-210-136-53.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1305593732 338550 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I should just explain in an email that I have ridiculous phone call anxiety instead of avoiding the situation like I normally do. < 1305593783 804838 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANANAPHONE < 1305593866 753679 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at a video of Hedgewars < 1305593873 79257 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very, very much a Worms clone < 1305594054 197506 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-136-53.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1305594060 946230 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-136-53.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1305594240 847160 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1305594263 568438 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: have you heard of the game Magicka? < 1305594272 638889 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I have < 1305594326 62594 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"eaturing humorous[citation needed] in-game references to various other media titles including Star Wars, Star Trek, World of Warcraft, Neverwinter Nights, 300, Lord of the Rings, The Colour of Magic, Castlevania, Highlander, Indiana Jones, and Monty Python and the Holy Grail." < 1305594336 322333 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION lols at the [citation needed] for humorous < 1305594514 656272 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha, nice < 1305594527 36341 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, it's a great game despire various buginess. < 1305595004 663825 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's an awesome bash command? < 1305595011 609739 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1305595037 658548 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...lolwat < 1305595047 381409 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you use that. < 1305595069 730562 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : Report yes bugs to bug-coreutils@gnu.org < 1305595077 193976 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what kind of bugs could there possibly be. < 1305595113 231000 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes | rm -rfi < 1305595122 864192 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oooh < 1305595142 639737 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used the "yes" command to produce a continuous tone on the sound card < 1305595149 684096 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could use that when installing things with cpan actually. It always asks if I want to install dependencies. < 1305595152 531166 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes | write elliott < 1305595208 255363 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cool. I was actually looking for bash utilities that are geared towards shell scripting, but that's a good one too. < 1305595231 114425 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: And that is why they have the "mesg n" command, I think < 1305595241 775151 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1305595260 577217 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes no < 1305595282 421256 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes everything I type in here will now be prefixed with yes < 1305595293 415991 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, so it's mesg y by default? < 1305595339 418284 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I think it usually is, at least the last time I used "write", the recipient was able to receive it. < 1305595469 232911 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay, nevermind. I thought "allowing write access" meant something completely different. Like, allowing bash input from other sources. < 1305595541 330432 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Oracle's awesome" <<< oracle's are indeed awesome! < 1305595576 30449 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the record, I was referring to the Internet Oracle. < 1305595685 457974 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :The oracle was a very awesome program in the matrix. Proving P=NP doesn't even come close. < 1305595764 994358 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I realize my above statement is mostly nonsense. Please allow the rational side of your mind to disregard that.) < 1305595812 64516 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*oracles < 1305595888 63966 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is well known P^A = NP^A and P^B != NP^B for some oracles A and B < 1305595892 418946 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't seen the proof tho < 1305595894 658078 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far the most useful thing I've found in shell scripting is that you can pipe to a while loop and use read to grab lines. < 1305595898 294532 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc also PSPACE < 1305595919 297032 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone familiar with these? oh wait no one is ever familiar with anything < 1305595969 708406 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can pretty much assume that I have a limited background in theoretical computer science beyond a certain point. < 1305596003 167116 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've... heard of PSPACE < 1305596037 632356 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1305596043 453325 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i would be extremely surprised if *anyone* *anywhere* was able to tell me how that result is proven < 1305596065 75043 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily i have it in book form and will hopefully be able to tell you guys this week < 1305596066 133818 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-34.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1305596101 448819 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :occasionally you find people at the uni who recall having read these proofs < 1305596116 551484 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have no idea how they're proven < 1305596118 968211 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to try to download Hedgewars via BitTorrent < 1305596409 23807 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1914031 < 1305596430 113632 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-136-53.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1305596458 653163 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wat < 1305596468 322412 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you ordered a jpeg? < 1305596515 916096 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, got a user account on a website, and that was a private message < 1305596615 701108 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: I was under the impression that using oracles to prove something is a silly thing to do. < 1305596662 37760 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1305596672 285053 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1305597068 841432 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fire sucks in this game < 1305597098 297097 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly? < 1305597115 365815 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-136-53.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1305597249 417345 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the fact that P^A = NP^A and P^B != NP^B, relativizable techniques cannot be used to prove P = NP, is that what you're referring to? < 1305597254 546127 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-136-53.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1305597280 705539 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :relativizable = technique such that if you prove X != Y for some classes X and Y using that technique, you will have proven X^A != Y^A for all oracles A as well < 1305597371 565482 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if the class of languages X is defined using machines of some type, X^A is the class of languages obtained by taking those same machines, except they can solve inclusion in A in no time (in time 1)) < 1305597405 590848 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is not a formal definition obviously, but it's obvious how it's done for the natural classes like P or NP or whatever) < 1305597422 416533 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i mean it's obvious what the natural definition is) < 1305597698 259130 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops < 1305597746 781578 :nddrylliog!~nddryllio@84-74-26-239.dclient.hispeed.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1305597834 722578 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PART :#esoteric < 1305597837 382358 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1305597845 286556 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO MUCH LINEAR ALGEBRA < 1305597865 252135 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Putting it off until the very last day possible == bad idea < 1305597872 959650 :nddrylliog!~nddryllio@84-74-26-239.dclient.hispeed.ch PART :#esoteric < 1305597925 329423 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :linear algebra is fun but all the proofs are the same you just go hmmm dimensions uh! dimensions < 1305597996 816129 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You make it sound like a chant. < 1305598012 392046 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hmmmm.... Dimensions... Uuuuhhh.... Dimensions..." ad infinitum < 1305598032 542099 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1305598037 599911 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to read a manual < 1305598040 396588 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly! < 1305598151 869998 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking about taking Topology as one of my electives. < 1305598168 755657 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have to take "Introduction to Advanced Mathematics" first. < 1305598173 787292 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmm topology mmmm topology < 1305598509 606055 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what sounds fun: parsing Perl. < 1305598591 815623 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you trying to decide whether you're gonna take Topology or Parsing Perl - An Adventure! < 1305598644 400201 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. My mind just tends to jump to other topics very quickly. < 1305598656 336385 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the second class sounds more fun. < 1305598745 108617 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :$x = 3 / 2 // // / 3 < 1305598761 949503 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first // is defined-or, the second // is an empty pattern. :) < 1305598838 171410 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the / is division, thrown in for fun. < 1305600168 16095 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1305600312 155200 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1305600580 362010 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1305601287 861276 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION winces < 1305601595 399308 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks that namecoins are more interesting than bitcoins < 1305601614 527571 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-136-53.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1305602651 598297 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1305603501 594252 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1305604337 459214 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/11762072/native-html5 < 1305604504 48794 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nihilist daddy would be better < 1305604514 954812 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can call me daddy, anytime < 1305604526 746753 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i'm gonna call you daddy bigtime < 1305604530 225777 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1305604539 425734 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oof < 1305604566 748319 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1305605591 834710 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO VERY MUCH LINEAR ALGEBRA < 1305606030 681500 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Contrary to popular belief, computation is devoid of pedagogical value! < 1305606323 857918 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :gropaga < 1305606538 899267 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1305608129 816774 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you ever even used the "mesg n" command? < 1305608210 833390 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you ever going to compose a piece called "Eine kleine Quinemusik"? < 1305608225 623266 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not a composer. < 1305609079 936401 :gropaga!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1305609378 15768 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: "Eine kleine Quinemusik" is certainly an interesting title for a piece. < 1305609386 723136 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps Gregor would like to steal it. < 1305609475 576951 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: It is mentioned on esolang wiki, as a quine program in a programming language where both input and output are form of music. < 1305609499 347039 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moth lands in boiling water. I scoop moth out with a cup. I let it boil for some time. < 1305609504 31778 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will the pasta be safe to eat? < 1305609516 64915 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably, but not certain. < 1305609587 806088 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written some musics using Bohlen-Pierce although they not completely since they have only one voice with no dynamics or anything like that, just the notes and note lengths, and rests. < 1305609623 711117 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many? Maybe fifteen such musics, I have done. < 1305609713 633014 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played D&D today please read the recording? I know there is some typographical errors and it isn't perfectly well written, and maybe the chicken briefly changes into a duck half way through, but that isn't the point. < 1305609753 638035 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Boiling is sufficient for disinfecting in most contexts. < 1305609778 874062 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How long for though? I think I only let it boil a few extra minutes after the incident < 1305609794 100583 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: How long does it normally take to boil that kind of pasta? < 1305609800 546319 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Sufficient. < 1305609808 304235 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I don't know how cold cups are affected by boiling water < 1305609817 644914 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There might be wax in my pasta now or something < 1305609837 234933 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to assume that wax is not lethal < 1305609854 483897 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then, you can learn by experience maybe (that is, if it is not lethal) < 1305609858 921676 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wax generally isn't. < 1305609977 234007 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it a good idea to make a mark of chalk on the shaman's body to tell the difference from the imposter? < 1305610081 48305 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, if I die, I'm blaming you < 1305610100 98101 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you blame someone if you are dead? < 1305610128 355977 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you write the report if you are dead? < 1305610142 453815 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, it's a joke. < 1305610157 240541 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1305610283 368399 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you are making an experiment, you try to see what is deadly, you cannot write the report if you are dead! One way to test, I suppose, is ask people who are marked already for death penalty, to try and then you write the report if they are dead or not. < 1305610354 967640 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds Foundation-like < 1305610374 937334 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is "Foundation-like"? < 1305610384 293530 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com < 1305610399 175417 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I read that before < 1305610432 724117 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they sometimes delete files too much < 1305610559 82521 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was one SCP that I loved that got deleted < 1305610578 809847 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was this little ruby gem capable of destroying structures, and perhaps the world if not controlled properly < 1305610588 404488 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was put into a spinning thing filled with mercury < 1305610596 709242 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it would not come in contact with a solid surface < 1305610737 132672 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it gets too cold then it will become solid, I think < 1305612026 388524 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://play.chessvariants.org/pbm/play.php?game=123456+Chess&log=nwolff-cvgameroom-2011-95-172&orientation=norm&submit=Print Do you think these players have made some bad moves? < 1305612169 670171 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have played 21. Rxh4*e7 although I don't actually know if it is better or what better move would actually be, I just try to guess. Instead he played 21. 5*e2 5h4 22. 5xe5+ but that just lets you get captured? < 1305612207 596415 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me it seems that 21. Rxh4*e7 1e6 22. g3 might work, isn't it? < 1305612438 456099 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's something for you: http://anyintelli.com/games/pawnduel/index.php < 1305612534 456983 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you get it, you can win almost everytime. < 1305612665 889457 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1305612764 306930 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any interest in chess variants? < 1305612977 896322 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: that's a game called ni < 1305612980 56011 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nim < 1305613161 757873 :Slereah_!~Slereah@ANantes-259-1-13-244.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1305613304 339790 :Slereah!~Slereah@ANantes-259-1-31-138.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1305614282 838182 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: Occam's Razor uses a single blade. < 1305617576 621996 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-15-174.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1305618200 627273 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1305618822 539005 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1305620398 267986 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1305620935 54233 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-15-174.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1305622486 902973 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1305623892 129291 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com.cy/support/forum/p/Chrome/thread?tid=3d2fe0574273c61c&hl=en pasting here for later reference < 1305623996 976333 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT WORKED < 1305625060 680911 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1305625331 373626 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1305628266 61825 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1305629899 835828 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :status < 1305630738 350723 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1305636119 73854 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1305636736 134943 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1305636769 134385 :cheater__!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1305638104 646427 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1305638421 954868 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's been a Homestuck update, so I wouldn't be surprised if... < 1305638427 208898 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww. < 1305638444 297461 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1305638588 146946 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1305638783 294586 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1305638797 768335 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1305639141 365642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1305639285 793933 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1305639642 62207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1305639858 61648 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1305639893 864312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1305640588 238460 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 JOIN :#esoteric < 1305641126 772054 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-15-174.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1305642142 640920 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1305642197 471493 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1305642372 134795 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 . < 1305642724 878039 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I fear JSmips has been outdone: http://linux.slashdot.org/story/11/05/17/0242244/Boot-Linux-In-Your-Browser < 1305642743 813641 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that with that VM thing? < 1305642748 415804 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION clicks < 1305642752 875825 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because if so, it just talks to a remote - < 1305642753 592520 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1305642780 963286 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how fast it is. < 1305642795 63257 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao, someone checked the system specs < 1305642809 84005 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Booting Linux (Score:3) < 1305642809 236002 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by jez9999 (618189) writes: on Tuesday May 17, @06:00AM (#36151038) Homepage Journal < 1305642809 317851 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't work for me. It got to a text thing with a flashing cursor but stopped there. I don't see my Ubuntu desktop or browser icon. < 1305642820 442933 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just gonna assume that's a joke :-P < 1305642838 585008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1305642894 810109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone suggested running Apache on it < 1305642928 22566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you could get it to serve the JS page itself, you could have a browser sending pages to itself < 1305642932 226040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is sort-of ridiculous < 1305642964 314494 :cheater__!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :[14:37] what i want to do is: run linux in javascript, and run php on top of that [14:37] then, use this php to validate forms. < 1305642991 32519 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1305643003 124410 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same principle as the one behind node.js, just evilly backwards? < 1305643006 818280 :cheater__!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1305643042 467360 :cheater__!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :[14:37] ahahah [14:37] this is perfect.. [14:38] perfectly insane!! < 1305643048 900645 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, if it had to be done, at least it was Fabrice Bellard :) < 1305643054 338212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1305643079 577279 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric : if you could get it to serve the JS page itself, you could have a browser sending pages to itself < 1305643085 590771 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Web Sockets don't do /serving/ < 1305643112 898818 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, they should < 1305643359 776536 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't appear to have network access anyway < 1305643425 538342 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsurprising since only Chrome has Web Sockets on by default < 1305643434 609048 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Everyone else disabling it due to security issues until a new standard is out/implemented) < 1305643700 79034 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Web Sockets? < 1305643740 785583 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jfgi < 1305643746 954226 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically WebSockets < 1305644373 676061 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1305644472 153576 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1305644596 562704 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm in haskell is there any built in function that lets me "map with a sliding window"? With that I mean something like: Given [1,2,3,4] I want the function called with 1 2 then with 2 3, 3 4. And it would return a tuple of two elements, so it would generate a new list of equal length < 1305644604 585737 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah I need to see two elements at a time < 1305644642 819925 :cheater__!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you really want is a transformation from a list to a sliding window < 1305644656 463674 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think there's a nice function for doing something similar. < 1305644659 466556 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t zip`ap`tail -- the aztec god of consecutive elements < 1305644660 197393 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b. [b] -> [(b, b)] < 1305644669 194170 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What copumpkin said. < 1305644672 433460 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t zipWith ?f `ap` tail < 1305644673 276379 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b c. (?f::b -> b -> c) => [b] -> [c] < 1305644674 964249 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Combine with uncurry. < 1305644681 908531 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, or what copumpkin said. < 1305644683 868623 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : :t zip`ap`tail -- the aztec god of consecutive elements <-- heh nice < 1305644692 231768 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah, "zipWith f `ap` tail" should do it. < 1305644703 486909 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ap < 1305644704 166945 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (Monad m) => m (a -> b) -> m a -> m b < 1305644709 270457 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :*blink* < 1305644714 404146 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap is generalised S combinator ;) < 1305644719 35884 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1305644723 987196 :cheater__!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :*an < 1305644732 644667 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Said with tongue in cheek.) < 1305644742 244803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I was about to ask what ap did < 1305644744 460599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I know what S does < 1305644746 878172 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src ap < 1305644746 960301 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap = liftM2 id < 1305644752 481744 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src liftM2 < 1305644752 617879 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM2 f m1 m2 = do { x1 <- m1; x2 <- m2; return (f x1 x2) } < 1305644755 949543 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t liftM2 < 1305644756 645562 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a1 a2 r (m :: * -> *). (Monad m) => (a1 -> a2 -> r) -> m a1 -> m a2 -> m r < 1305644772 90288 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1305644777 245895 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (zip `ap` tail) [1,2,3,4,5,6,7] < 1305644777 849797 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(1,2),(2,3),(3,4),(4,5),(5,6),(6,7)] < 1305644778 605995 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap is just \mf mx -> do f <- mf; x <- mx; return (f x) < 1305644802 641072 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (zipWith (+) `ap` tail) [1,2,3,4,5,6,7] < 1305644803 332570 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [3,5,7,9,11,13] < 1305644809 497332 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (zipWith (\x y -> [x,y]) `ap` tail) [1,2,3,4,5,6,7] < 1305644810 142369 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1,2],[2,3],[3,4],[4,5],[5,6],[6,7]] < 1305644899 609939 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't do quite the right thing but hm < 1305644902 646183 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah easy to fix < 1305644903 224858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does zip do if the two lists aren't the same length? just discard extra elements? < 1305644946 828341 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> zip [9,9,9] [0,0] < 1305644947 478189 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(9,0),(9,0)] < 1305644958 282503 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> zip [0,0] [9,9,9] < 1305644958 861302 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(0,9),(0,9)] < 1305644962 650929 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So: yes. < 1305644967 66636 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's nothing else it /could/ do. < 1305644978 448746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \x -> zip x (tail x) < 1305644978 529563 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap zip tail < 1305644984 783349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as I suspected < 1305644994 83697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, ap isn't the S combinator, liftM2 is < 1305644995 647129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap is \si < 1305644998 57590 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* `si < 1305644999 628261 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm worst algorithm to get length of string ever < 1305645004 650736 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, no, ap is S. < 1305645015 691516 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \x y z -> x z (y z) < 1305645015 854432 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap < 1305645025 206036 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?unpl ap < 1305645025 293986 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\ d e -> d >>= \ b -> e >>= \ a -> return (b a)) < 1305645027 981737 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1305645029 702539 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (x:xs) = tail (zip [1..] "foobar"); x < 1305645030 300650 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `=' < 1305645032 313111 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1305645034 850288 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \x y z -> (x z) (y z) < 1305645034 966170 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap < 1305645035 589015 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?unpl ap :: functions < 1305645035 671118 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\ d e -> d >>= \ b -> e >>= \ a -> return (b a)) :: functions < 1305645037 691111 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1305645039 175670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it seems you're right < 1305645044 186401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> tail (zip [1..] "foobar") < 1305645044 871656 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(2,'o'),(3,'o'),(4,'b'),(5,'a'),(6,'r')] < 1305645047 46076 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1305645047 374156 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ?pl \x y z -> x z (y z) < 1305645047 616986 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ap < 1305645048 367996 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not tail < 1305645049 205771 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just showed that :P < 1305645052 347516 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is last element now again < 1305645056 283183 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: last < 1305645057 816021 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: ah, right < 1305645058 664069 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1305645060 985972 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ap < 1305645061 619986 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (Monad m) => m (a -> b) -> m a -> m b < 1305645065 536725 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> last (zip [1..] "foobar") < 1305645066 190508 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (6,'r') < 1305645075 744748 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is ALMOST same as length :P < 1305645089 996735 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need to get it out of there < 1305645091 54584 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ap < 1305645091 614614 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (Monad m) => m (a -> b) -> m a -> m b < 1305645094 309338 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: fst < 1305645100 681771 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1305645101 629776 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm not sure why you're trying to do that, though :P < 1305645106 537227 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fst . last (zip [1..] "foobar") < 1305645107 143144 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `(a, b)' < 1305645107 295280 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `GHC.Ty... < 1305645108 962499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1305645112 937671 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1305645114 590539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what monad does ap work in when you give it a question that has nothing to do with monads? Identity? < 1305645119 553820 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fst < 1305645120 135056 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(last (zip [1..] "foobar")) isn't a function. < 1305645120 217075 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (a, b) -> a < 1305645123 725540 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how can you compose a function with it? < 1305645126 230812 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fst $ last (zip [1..] "foobar") < 1305645126 832725 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6 < 1305645130 863368 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1305645132 60273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ap id id (ap id id) < 1305645132 687488 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = a -> b < 1305645133 765970 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Better: < 1305645134 739000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1305645150 68698 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fst . last . zip [1..] $ "foobar" < 1305645151 155678 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: < 1305645151 583701 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6 < 1305645163 508663 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :length = fst . last . zip [1..] < 1305645165 362596 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, anyway this is kind of the silliest length function ever :P < 1305645168 600640 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is. < 1305645172 877875 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ap id id < 1305645173 519073 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = a -> b < 1305645173 600796 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Probable cause: `id' is applied to too few arguments < 1305645173 600962 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the second argument of `ap', namely `id' < 1305645183 823981 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, think haskell would optimise it? < 1305645184 947083 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1305645185 756890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, Haskell can't type the X combinator < 1305645217 158443 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src length < 1305645217 240345 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Take a stress pill and think things over. < 1305645220 407047 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1305645221 899028 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl (+) map (const 1) $ "foobar" < 1305645222 520550 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[(a -> b) -> [a] -> [b]]' < 1305645222 602089 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inf... < 1305645228 436402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, I've messed that up slightly < 1305645230 19436 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t length < 1305645230 728454 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. [a] -> Int < 1305645232 488295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t const < 1305645233 186899 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1305645233 269000 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. a -> b -> a < 1305645237 302585 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh right, Haskell can't type the X combinator < 1305645240 584306 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can with a newtype or two. < 1305645242 290422 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott_, think haskell would optimise it? < 1305645244 508121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl (+) (map (const 1)) $ "foobar" < 1305645245 241381 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a] -> [t]' < 1305645245 322989 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `GH... < 1305645247 958894 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :List fusion is excellent, so it's possible. < 1305645253 960716 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, ah < 1305645255 101193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :inferred type `GH...? < 1305645257 737104 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not down to length directly, though. < 1305645262 920310 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1305645267 431236 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: GHC.Any, probably < 1305645272 201850 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or GHC.Char or something < 1305645272 337002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (foldl (+)) . (map (const 1)) $ "foobar" < 1305645273 26256 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show ([[t]] -> [t]) < 1305645273 107701 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a us... < 1305645288 616822 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude> foldl (+) (map (const 1)) $ "foobar" < 1305645288 861553 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::1:29: < 1305645288 943496 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a0] -> [b0]' with actual type `Char' < 1305645289 25676 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Expected type: [[a0] -> [b0]] < 1305645289 25835 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Actual type: [Char] < 1305645289 113643 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the second argument of `($)', namely `"foobar"' < 1305645291 226160 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the expression: foldl (+) (map (const 1)) $ "foobar" < 1305645296 552717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've probably got that composition backwards < 1305645298 912738 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude> (foldl (+)) . (map (const 1)) $ "foobar" < 1305645298 994765 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::1:8: < 1305645300 908996 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (Num [b0]) < 1305645302 994475 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `+' < 1305645303 91415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what I want to say, I'm just geting it wrong < 1305645304 858333 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Possible fix: add an instance declaration for (Num [b0]) < 1305645311 420803 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: foldl requires a zero value < 1305645315 868341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1305645322 576879 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sum . map (const 1) $ "foobar" < 1305645323 910649 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6 < 1305645326 713639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (map (const 1)) . (foldl (+) 0)$ "foobar" < 1305645327 303584 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]' < 1305645327 398698 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `GHC.Types... < 1305645328 187289 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src sum < 1305645328 301336 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sum = foldl (+) 0 < 1305645335 407949 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, you had it the right way around < 1305645339 88505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (foldl (+) 0) . (map (const 1)) $ "foobar" < 1305645340 473542 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6 < 1305645342 453261 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, why isn't sum foldl' < 1305645343 468142 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's stupid < 1305645343 550054 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep forgetting the semantics of . < 1305645356 438200 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: in case you sum an empty list < 1305645370 227862 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ... < 1305645376 53595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sum [] < 1305645376 675336 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1305645377 112382 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's foldl1. < 1305645382 193908 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src foldl' < 1305645382 275931 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldl' f a [] = a < 1305645382 356916 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldl' f a (x:xs) = let a' = f a x in a' `seq` foldl' f a' xs < 1305645389 722185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src foldl < 1305645389 804321 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldl f z [] = z < 1305645389 804476 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldl f z (x:xs) = foldl f (f z x) xs < 1305645401 786503 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src seq < 1305645401 868348 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. I feel much better now. < 1305645405 222353 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, wait, integers are strict < 1305645407 851256 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But other number types might not be < 1305645408 512850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does seq do? < 1305645421 410696 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It might be good to assume I know the Prelude better than you if you keep forgetting what (.) does and don't know what seq is X-D < 1305645423 980652 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t seq < 1305645424 601894 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a t. a -> t -> t < 1305645428 391505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :force its left argument before running the right argument < 1305645434 193844 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I know you do, that's why I'm asking questions < 1305645434 574919 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Sort of. < 1305645444 21430 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant re: the foldl' thing :P < 1305645447 828862 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It doesn't mean the left argument will be evaluated immediately. < 1305645453 283168 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just means it'll be evaluated before the thunk is. < 1305645458 382684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1305645466 267130 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. if (a `seq` b) gets forced, a will get forced. < 1305645469 737945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a lazy version of force left before evaluating right < 1305645470 660050 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And then b.) < 1305645479 503206 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if (a `seq` b) isn't forced, then nothing happens. < 1305645487 96560 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: There's no way to make a strict version, really < 1305645490 547131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how far does it go? e.g. if a returns type (), and the whole thing is forced, will anything happen to calculate that ()? < 1305645493 97023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is no < 1305645495 753753 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine const x (a `seq` b) < 1305645507 336212 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or const x (foldl ... (... ... (_|_ `seq` x) ...) ...) < 1305645509 720911 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1305645514 129466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well, obviously not in Haskell < 1305645525 583450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could define strict seq just fine in, say, algol 60 < 1305645526 415327 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric : how far does it go? e.g. if a returns type (), and the whole thing is forced, will anything happen to calculate that ()? < 1305645534 127595 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1305645538 686390 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it could also be _|_. < 1305645542 350524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1305645543 404108 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :() `seq` x = x < 1305645546 862830 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :_|_ `seq` x = _|_ < 1305645563 696270 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t foldr seq () < 1305645564 480647 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. [a] -> () < 1305645565 793065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the left-hand value is just used uselessly, in a way < 1305645572 256970 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \x -> foldr seq x < 1305645572 958516 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. b -> [a] -> b < 1305645577 386972 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (4/0) seq () < 1305645578 9068 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Infinity < 1305645578 929063 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip foldr seq < 1305645579 643977 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a a1 b. (a -> (a1 -> b -> b) -> a1 -> b -> b) -> [a] -> a1 -> b -> b < 1305645583 691740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what? < 1305645586 72635 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: `seq` < 1305645587 820277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I forgot the quotes < 1305645595 566159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm wondering why that typed at all < 1305645600 23728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (4/0) `seq` () < 1305645600 564527 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : () < 1305645602 315634 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: lambdabot has function instances for Num, I think < 1305645605 960010 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that's Floating < 1305645606 645756 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :god knows < 1305645607 274864 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (4::Int/0) `seq` () < 1305645607 828841 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Only unit numeric type pattern is valid < 1305645617 76876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((4::Int)/0) `seq` () < 1305645617 856996 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Real.Fractional GHC.Types.Int) < 1305645617 938786 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use o... < 1305645621 747925 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITYM `div` < 1305645626 226536 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (9 `div` 0) `seq` () < 1305645626 922248 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: divide by zero < 1305645630 193102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, you can't divide an Int? < 1305645631 570860 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. _|_ < 1305645634 823540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1305645637 320355 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I was checking < 1305645637 560699 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, but you can div one. < 1305645649 390395 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense; you can divide integers, but have to div ints < 1305645672 498575 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also quot for ints < 1305645685 352350 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that handle negative numbers differently? < 1305645705 812754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :guessing, I'd say -4 `div` 3 would be -1, and -4 `quot` 3 would be -2 < 1305645727 937870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((div (-4) 3),(quot (-4) 3)) < 1305645728 613771 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (-2,-1) < 1305645729 898861 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It affects the rounding, yes. < 1305645742 480600 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, that's the opposite of what I predicted < 1305645746 231671 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I screwed up the maths < 1305645994 892528 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, BtW, Timwi wants to make a new skin for the wiki. < 1305646009 637360 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Uh." < 1305646027 93008 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have increasingly become of the opinion that nobody should be allowed to make a MediaWiki anything but Monobook or Vector. < 1305646044 196422 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear, he just /asked/ for sysopship? < 1305646073 236229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: hmm, I think I might agree with you there < 1305646091 840652 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... you can't actually add new skins as a sysop, can you? < 1305646097 327329 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can modify the CSS of existing ones < 1305646100 416798 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think you can add new ones < 1305646103 809083 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :making his request justification even odder < 1305646120 548084 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oi, Haskellwiki. < 1305646138 228026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you can tweak the CSS and add JavaScript, but you definitely can't modify skins internally < 1305646146 728051 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: HaskellWiki's new design is alright. < 1305646151 62841 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The old one was terrible. < 1305646215 570692 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asking for sysopship is definitely worrying though, in most places on the internet asking for power is a sure-fire way of making sure you don't get it < 1305646239 794735 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Wikipedia is an exception, but Wikipedia handling sysophood in a certain way is usually an argument against that way :) ) < 1305646271 879765 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you probably want to delete Subleq+, anyway < 1305646291 33487 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, if I have two Data.Word.Word8 and want to add them together getting a Word8 back, why doesn't just a+b work? < 1305646300 78952 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hm < 1305646301 903664 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1305646305 543822 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I misread the ghc error < 1305646306 738468 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm < 1305646315 246509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I made it a redirect < 1305646327 359483 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, RationalWiki is an exception, predictably. < 1305646342 410318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I got adminship on Esolang by asking Graue for it < 1305646345 867190 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got both sysop- and bureaucratship by asking, basically. < 1305646349 909703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I gave an actual reason why it was needed < 1305646393 921230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it wasn't direct asking, more I prompted enough that he asked me < 1305646400 244665 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once asked for sysop privs on Wikipedia. Didn't happen. < 1305646439 462440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can sort-of envisage how that RFA would go in my head < 1305646441 503723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have a link? < 1305646465 855370 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott_, if I have two Data.Word.Word8 and want to add them together getting a Word8 back, why doesn't just a+b work? < 1305646466 539144 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does. < 1305646494 617044 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Don't encourage him pinging people for followup comments as well < 1305646506 30327 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yeah I misread confusing ghc error < 1305646509 666728 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Wat? < 1305646517 673115 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I.e. read the following lines before responding :-P < 1305646545 397340 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I was just confirming, and also punishing him for asking a question so soon with a ping ;D < 1305646635 103769 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've replied to the thread about skins with a lot of parentheses and at least one neologism < 1305646657 779673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: haha < 1305646784 943404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike your spelling of sleekifiitude < 1305646792 663773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the third i is a little over the top < 1305646816 572263 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's to aid pronunciation. < 1305646820 907788 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sleek-ifi-itude. < 1305646822 978451 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i-FY-itude. < 1305646828 562145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm also not convinced "jaggedy" is a real word, although I think I've seen it been used before) < 1305646830 895871 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sleekifyitude" just looks SILLY. < 1305646837 324298 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jaggedy is real enough a word. < 1305646839 463373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be easier to pronounce as "sleekifitude" < 1305646841 819897 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/jaggedy < 1305646859 551987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although pronounced differently < 1305646879 441935 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But that'd miss the subtle strands of meaning :( < 1305646907 32797 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Learning_Haskell <-- lol at the implementations section < 1305646918 18847 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A really verbose table version of "Yeah, uh, just use GHC." < 1305646936 718776 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, Helium and UHC aren't exactly actively developed either. < 1305646946 854485 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, UHC might be. < 1305646951 14151 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, seems so. < 1305646958 120691 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helium isn't, though, I don't think. < 1305647005 656722 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, wasn't there a jhc? < 1305647008 17577 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realize that Haskell's logo was "Lambda on Commodore 64" < 1305647023 610217 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, lol < 1305647027 143128 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, it's relatively well-developed but not really compatible with much IIRC. < 1305647036 581416 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's a whole-program-including-libraries compiler. < 1305647052 293330 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: X-D < 1305647057 276782 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's been most-compared to Amtrak's logo :P < 1305647069 488462 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not the best logo from the contest IMO but it's alright. < 1305647088 382136 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.blogonauts.com/eats-the-world/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/Haskell_Logo.jpg ;; kickin' it oldschool < 1305647097 810265 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, ah < 1305647105 387771 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, kind of cool iirc last I looked at it < 1305647116 790738 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, but it doesn't even have a REPL :P < 1305647118 187832 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, whole program optimisation taken a step further than usual < 1305647128 746524 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :LibClang 0.0.8 < 1305647128 844898 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's useless for anyone trying to /learn/ Haskell. < 1305647129 20744 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : Haskell bindings for libclang (a C++ parsing library) < 1305647130 845861 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lololol < 1305647137 613146 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: what? < 1305647141 612861 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, ah < 1305647144 167603 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :libclang is a C++ parsing library now? < 1305647146 465595 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And I'm still not sure it's actually useful yet :P < 1305647164 30069 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it is cool however. Anyway this logo used to be used quite recently iirc? http://www.blogonauts.com/eats-the-world/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/Haskell_Logo.jpg < 1305647173 566133 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It seems to at least partially be, yes. < 1305647182 897445 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The new logo has been around for, like, over a year. < 1305647187 980195 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. "Partially" < 1305647192 175836 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, ah, quite new then < 1305647208 620377 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The LibClang package < 1305647208 824411 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :LibClang package provides direct bindings to libclang. < 1305647208 906348 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This should be enough for parsing C/C++ code, walking the AST and querying nodes and completion queries. < 1305647219 404617 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It doesn't seem to actually have compilation support. < 1305647221 889673 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least the binding doesn't. < 1305647234 306225 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You guys FAIL SO HARD. < 1305647236 69135 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1305647241 813749 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Define you guys. < 1305647244 190422 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me? < 1305647249 363041 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The person who wrote the binding? < 1305647252 608806 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every Haskell user in existence? < 1305647257 321432 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure the binding is only to the parser, I was laughing at the suggestion that libclang is a "C++ parser library" < 1305647274 495175 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*parsing < 1305647278 35037 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://clang.llvm.org/doxygen/group__CINDEX.html < 1305647288 84850 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really see anything related to non-parsing there. < 1305647299 944943 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for maybe "translation unit manipulation". < 1305647316 100761 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translation unit m---that's one :P < 1305647335 732102 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it just counts a C++ file as a translation unit. < 1305647340 617694 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is, IIRC, a perfectly valid definition. < 1305647349 610067 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CINDEX_LINKAGE CXTranslationUnit clang_parseTranslationUnit (CXIndex CIdx, const char *source_filename, const char *const *command_line_args, int num_command_line_args, struct CXUnsavedFile *unsaved_files, unsigned num_unsaved_files, unsigned options) < 1305647349 776819 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Parse the given source file and the translation unit corresponding to that file. < 1305647350 269920 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1305647360 643123 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe there are some non-parsing functions there, but it's certainly not obvious that there are. < 1305647362 692032 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :BLAR BLAR BLAR. < 1305647366 781812 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say BLAR BLAR! < 1305647382 30209 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, apparently libclang is made of fail :P < 1305647386 122991 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like it says: "The C Interface to Clang provides a relatively small API that exposes facilities for parsing source code into an abstract syntax tree (AST), loading already-parsed ASTs, traversing the AST, associating physical source locations with elements within the AST, and other facilities that support Clang-based development tools." < 1305647388 74925 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I feel like "libclang is a library to parse and analyse C and C++ (and probably Objective-C) source code" is a valid assessment. < 1305647396 503382 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So, it is a parsing library then. < 1305647398 909059 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOKAY < 1305647412 101125 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: BLAR. BLAR. BLAR. < 1305647441 205519 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still better than libgcc which doesn't have anything to do with compiling code. :p < 1305647452 521586 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1305647632 463304 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, should be libgccruntime or something like that < 1305647669 295161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes it does, it's a library of functions to compile code into < 1305647679 124026 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" So you’ve seen other skins that are rubbish, and because of that you don’t even want to let me try? — Timwi 15:53, 17 May 2011 (UTC)" < 1305647683 276042 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh, this is going to turn into a spat, isn't it. < 1305647685 653050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case your system doesn't have a 64-bit multiply or whatever, you can compile it into the libgcc version < 1305647696 677306 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, where is that quote from? < 1305647706 192587 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: talk:main page < 1305647710 423313 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or in case it lacks a 32-bit add < 1305647743 467652 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, what is it about really, skins? < 1305647746 453289 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1305647751 757902 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a space ship. < 1305647760 687278 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. < 1305647768 256476 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timwi wants to be a sysop so he can make a new default skin. < 1305647785 621212 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds reasonable to me. < 1305647797 315226 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, then again, I am a space ship. < 1305647867 190412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I've suggested that Timwi makes his pure-CSS skin using User:Timwi/myskin.css < 1305647889 873981 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pure css skin? mediawiki? < 1305647890 593854 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ugh, I'm trying to edit the page, and I've already had /one/ edit conflict < 1305647893 564390 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :this must be a joke < 1305647903 154619 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: indeed < 1305647923 117138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a "if you think that's possible and will work well, prove it" response is better than a "that won't work" response, although I gave both < 1305647949 565271 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that Timwi apparently doesn't know how to make an internal link to a section < 1305647960 219930 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my < 1305647972 747950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not completely obvious, but I'd rather people knew that sort of thing before wanting to mess around with the MediaWiki: pages which are a lot more finicky < 1305647982 223667 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1305647985 596898 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523's edit was saved < 1305647986 113462 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew < 1305648009 911210 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is [[#foo|whatever]] isn't it? < 1305648026 27747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, and [[page#foo|whatever]] to link to a section on a different page, which is what he was trying to do < 1305648066 725970 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, doing that to the same page works though, except it will cause the browser to reload the page. Oh and mess up with clicking them when doing preview on edit < 1305648091 50638 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it's a pretty huge thread already < 1305648142 527407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, the problem with linking to pages with + in their name isn't a MediaWiki bug, it's a bug in the Apache mod_rewrite config < 1305648146 817874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know the solution offhand < 1305648344 486204 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, which haskell mode for emacs do you suggest? < 1305648356 143222 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Latest haskell-mode from darcs. < 1305648363 566685 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With < 1305648363 966877 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (add-hook 'haskell-mode-hook 'turn-on-haskell-doc-mode) < 1305648364 212518 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (add-hook 'haskell-mode-hook 'turn-on-haskell-indentation) < 1305648374 996565 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, why the last from darcs < 1305648375 550648 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although haskell-indentation has been annoying me more and more lately because it tries to be too smart but not smart enough < 1305648381 749009 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because the distro versions are really out of date < 1305648385 123008 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott_> Although haskell-indentation has been annoying me more and more lately because it tries to be too smart but not smart enough < 1305648390 237388 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, what am I going to miss? < 1305648391 687348 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This will only apply if you do tricky nesting though :-P) < 1305648395 214557 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Improvements. < 1305648400 723489 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, gee thanks < 1305648400 805624 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on, it's just a < 1305648402 283505 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric : $ darcs get http://code.haskell.org/haskellmode-emacs/ haskell-mode < 1305648402 810579 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :away < 1305648408 124983 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, and installing that < 1305648411 360625 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No? < 1305648414 126398 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I forgot how to do < 1305648414 796606 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just "load" instead of "require". < 1305648420 258154 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right that ws it < 1305648421 220094 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :was* < 1305648425 920423 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(load "~/blah/haskell-mode/haskell-site-file.el") < 1305648428 412378 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (add-hook 'haskell-mode-hook 'turn-on-haskell-doc-mode) < 1305648428 684180 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (add-hook 'haskell-mode-hook 'turn-on-haskell-indentation) < 1305648498 466609 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm hooks < 1305648521 190682 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never been able to get myself to use emacs. < 1305648529 78005 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or vim for that matter. < 1305648545 823513 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you precompile *.elc now again... < 1305648550 617388 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use gedit for most programming tasks. < 1305648562 937248 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Do you really need to :P < 1305648567 283171 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, gedit is terrible. kate is better < 1305648577 378039 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes, I need to optimise loading time obviously < 1305648580 353122 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric : CakeProphet, gedit is terrible. kate is better <-- stop trying to start a flamewar < 1305648589 536149 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it'd be ok if you just flamed it without suggesting an alternative ;D) < 1305648594 556963 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1305648598 508574 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, < 1305648599 205374 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gedit is quite terrible < 1305648605 530921 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a lot of people who love kate in here < 1305648609 355803 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are options but I refuse to tell you them < 1305648611 105466 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we can get a good gedit/kate flamewar < 1305648619 378735 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then if a vi or emacs guy comes in, they'll assume we're all noobs < 1305648627 542910 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I don't love kate, I find it usable, but far from perfect < 1305648636 214623 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, it's not a particularly amazing piece of software, but it has syntax highlighting and automatic indents, which are the two essentials for me. < 1305648644 413713 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pico forevar!" < 1305648649 547415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I use both Kate and gedit; and I think Kate is better but I use gedit more often < 1305648651 296787 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nano < 1305648658 481787 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "nano? Oh come on, they haven't even implemented [OBSCURE PICO KEY COMBINATION]." < 1305648662 152226 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gedit's my Notepad substitute, for the sort of things that would work just fine in Notepad < 1305648664 619333 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: SEE ABOVE < 1305648667 402046 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I also use it for editing lua, for some reason < 1305648673 576548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's really really complex lua, then I use Emacs < 1305648679 190053 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if anyone's made a faithful Notepad clone for GTK < 1305648681 442770 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be amusing < 1305648688 168382 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :including the automatic date insertion stuff < 1305648697 776183 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a wine notepad... < 1305648698 863496 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, Remember it has to refuse to open too large files < 1305648713 774048 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, why not use kate if you think it is better than gedit < 1305648726 579212 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I mean, kate and gedit loads in about the same amount of time < 1305648727 653046 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Modern(TM) Notepad can handle large files. < 1305648731 79729 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: True :P < 1305648737 74470 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, post-XP? < 1305648768 222686 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Vorpal is very disgruntled by your gedit use, apparently. haha. < 1305648776 887970 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I'm just trying to understand < 1305648794 337589 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I figured. < 1305648794 697020 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Notepad makes use of a built-in window class named "EDIT". In older versions such as those included with Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Me and Windows 3.1, there is a 64k limit on the size of the file being edited, an operating system limit of the EDIT class." < 1305648804 799979 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kate is a pain in gnome < 1305648809 544897 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So any NT-class Notepad should be mokay. < 1305648810 94365 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because kdefour anything is a pain in anything < 1305648818 687955 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realised I typed nano -w ~/.emacs < 1305648819 501513 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1305648824 70652 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never used kate, actually. < 1305648846 818486 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1305648851 139031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1305648852 415190 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1305648858 774474 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :real men and women and also people edit with LEADEN < 1305648887 22402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: which editor was yours that saved every keystroke and used a VCS for its undo feature? < 1305648897 259419 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I edit with Perl, duh. < 1305648922 727056 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: leaden :) < 1305648927 925010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I thought it might be < 1305648930 696471 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I never got to implementing the undo, though < 1305648932 691216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would fit in so nicely with sg < 1305648936 217223 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, it wasn't going to use VCS for undo, just for save < 1305648937 240311 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't really implemented either < 1305648938 947768 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sg? < 1305648942 772750 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh scapegoat? < 1305648942 910728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: scapegoat < 1305648943 572815 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Have you pre-byte-compiled your Emacs init file already? The manual disrecommends it, but startup time is obviously crucial. < 1305648944 262757 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because branching undo with VCSes is a pain < 1305648946 359381 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1305648947 679526 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you have to explicitly branch < 1305648959 744426 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd serialise its own undo tree < 1305648960 80269 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I forgot how to pre-byte-compile < 1305648963 505957 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you apply a .diff patch to a c project? < 1305648974 97262 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: ... < 1305648982 777882 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, do you happen to know? < 1305648989 223765 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1305648991 155386 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, /I/ have troubles remembering how to use patch sometimes, but come on, you could have found out the answer to that in five seconds by Googling. < 1305648991 357742 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the init file: meh < 1305649004 709751 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway real speed fans loads it into the emacs image < 1305649013 446073 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since emacs is already an image with pre-loaded stuff) < 1305649023 908660 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it would take me at least 2 minutes. the only place i get 5 second answers is here < 1305649041 385735 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: you're really slow at clicking links < 1305649052 922943 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real speed fans would just, you know, not bother with starting Emacs, since it's obviously already running. < 1305649072 360180 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: can't help the fact internet here is slow < 1305649109 8596 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The manual recommends the Emacs server dealie as an alternative to byte-compiling init files.) < 1305649210 13805 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh make compile did it < 1305649219 496514 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1305649388 971639 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm.. I might start using Emacs < 1305649438 830554 :FireFly!~firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1305649441 421487 :FireFly!~firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se QUIT :Changing host < 1305649441 421718 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1305649509 872812 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs is like Windows, it's a really shitty platform but you use it anyway because of what's built on it < 1305649512 598500 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. the modes) < 1305649523 591996 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but jesus these tutorials are obnoxious. < 1305649540 281529 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not reading the built-in tutorial are you? < 1305649556 25153 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reading the "tour" < 1305649573 809052 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/tour/? < 1305649577 748361 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that. < 1305649584 187893 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks stupid. < 1305649603 120433 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, read Xah Lee's tutorial; if nothing else it'll be AMUSING! < 1305649609 154182 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will leave it up to fizzie to tell CakeProphet not to. < 1305649632 772092 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, this example is simple old code: http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/tour/images/code.png < 1305649652 113372 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...M-x is such an awkward key combination < 1305649665 468345 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :M-x isn't used very often < 1305649667 326256 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, no x is just above alt < 1305649674 438668 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so thumb + index finger < 1305649674 520593 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, which is why it's so awkward < 1305649680 771882 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, your thumb has to contort underneath your finger < 1305649682 377838 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or thumb for both < 1305649686 241627 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1305649692 165162 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, anyway yeah it is rarely used < 1305649731 241010 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott_, this example is simple old code: http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/tour/images/code.png < 1305649732 676048 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's old about it < 1305649738 367413 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(What's simple about it) < 1305649748 792563 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, "simply*" < 1305649755 17497 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but old, check functions < 1305649756 507924 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo(bar) < 1305649762 765371 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : int bar < 1305649766 547318 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes? < 1305649767 134991 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why would I ever remember all of these key combos.... < 1305649767 888079 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, come on, it is K&R < 1305649768 939254 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs is coded like that. < 1305649774 836521 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, !! < 1305649782 348184 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You realise Emacs was mature in the eighties, right? < 1305649785 407236 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1305649792 481943 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Because they do useful things? < 1305649797 228748 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no reason to not protoize it after < 1305649798 302543 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1305649798 928770 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have to remember THAT many. < 1305649800 610331 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to turn off computer < 1305649803 754544 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :thunderstorm < 1305649810 333533 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: protoize affects semantics. < 1305649816 739114 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :K[and]R functions do freaky upconversion. < 1305649841 905664 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Heck, I even use the arrow keys. < 1305649842 319099 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: yeah but there's a whole list of things to memorize for doing simple stuff like... moving through text. Whereas every other text editor ever uses home, end, ctrl+left/right, etc < 1305649856 66490 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too. < 1305649857 322757 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Well, the point is that Ctrl+F/B/P/N avoid moving your hands... < 1305649869 586653 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But moving around in one-char increments is a stupid idea anyway. < 1305649874 71425 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-s is a godsend. < 1305649885 636594 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is? < 1305649888 527308 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incremental search. < 1305649900 253588 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1305649907 526533 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Anyway, Emacs is actually older than cursor keys. :p < 1305649914 861184 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, hmm.) < 1305649918 243887 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Older than cursor keys on PCs, anyway.) < 1305649925 239337 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a fast search and replace would be a significant boon towards emacs to me < 1305649939 82198 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh... there are editors with SLOW search and replace? < 1305649950 887427 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in like, a fast, non-interrupting search and replace. < 1305649981 9833 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...how big files do you edit exactly < 1305649984 213671 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the idea of not having to deal with UI dialogs. < 1305649993 655583 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as in a fast execution time for the search-replace. < 1305649997 972568 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, nothing in Emacs is non-interrupting, the damn thing doesn't even have threads. < 1305650000 21226 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see what you mean. < 1305650005 372247 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about the interface... hahaha < 1305650006 977736 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's done with the minibuffer. < 1305650026 677197 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :M-x replace-string source replacement , although there's also a regexp version. < 1305650031 944765 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe there's a keybinding for replace-string, dunno. < 1305650036 392633 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In any case you can assign your own if you want.) < 1305650043 753648 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait... no threads? Does it have weird "clunkiness" issues? < 1305650050 116336 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1305650050 903648 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. < 1305650064 37111 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text editing doesn't exactly involve intensive computation. < 1305650074 637394 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm so what's the difference between replace-string and replace-query < 1305650082 744605 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's replace-query < 1305650088 11143 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even have that command here < 1305650102 62061 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there's query-replace < 1305650103 101051 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I don't know, but this tour thing mentions it. it's C-% I think? < 1305650106 671611 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe M-% < 1305650115 381112 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno, it seems to act just like replace-string... < 1305650139 546086 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks it out (C-h F query-replace) < 1305650151 703661 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to change only some of the occurrences of `foo' to < 1305650152 66019 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bar', not all of them, use `M-%' (`query-replace'). This command < 1305650152 147969 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :finds occurrences of `foo' one by one, displays each occurrence and < 1305650152 148137 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :asks you whether to replace it. < 1305650155 506548 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1305650157 375929 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: replace-string just does it unconditionally. < 1305650219 561855 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1305650234 704348 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the F for in that C-h command? < 1305650251 325037 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look up command. < 1305650285 725280 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's other things to look up key binding, look up Lisp function/variable/etc., start the info reader, blah blah blah. < 1305650288 3142 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....I won't even ask how F correlates to that. I guess "function"? < 1305650293 871293 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-h f is function. < 1305650300 536290 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, uhh, commands are functions? < 1305650303 659663 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess... so? < 1305650304 721897 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1305650311 144017 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :God knows, I just looked it up in C-h ? since I forgot. :-P < 1305650319 906638 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(C-h ? being "help about C-h".) < 1305650324 328754 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If only it was "help about C-h ?".) < 1305650326 372954 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...hahaha. what happens if you forget C-h ? < 1305650338 403686 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it comes up if you press C-h and then sit there for a few seconds doing nothing. < 1305650344 612190 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you forget C-h, I think you just give up. < 1305650348 276923 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...nice. < 1305650355 789591 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then you'd have to remember C-x C-c to quit. < 1305650365 625695 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god... < 1305650375 808394 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh come on, how often do you quit your editor? < 1305650393 573512 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's worth nothing that Emacs actually predates Ctrl+X/C/V altogether. < 1305650401 395922 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vi's the canonical "oh no I'm trapped and can't get out" program. < 1305650402 300000 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends heavily on what I'm doing. With gedit it can be often. < 1305650403 263047 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Often when doing one-off edits < 1305650414 576904 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, but quitting Emacs is an Emacs anti-pattern. < 1305650423 161149 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't spawn a new Emacs just to make a one-off edit. < 1305650425 784877 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ed is worse than vi, I'd say < 1305650427 882654 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I think as soon as you press control-h, Emacs gives you a hint that you might want to press ? if you don't know what to do next < 1305650431 770654 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But perhaps less canonical < 1305650432 366143 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? ed's just "q". < 1305650435 784017 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vi requires a COLON in front. < 1305650439 316864 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I do, because I have Emacs set up to remember state when I close it < 1305650440 537664 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'd use gedit for quick edits anyways... < 1305650441 556420 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's unintuitive[exclamation mark] < 1305650448 87218 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You don't use Emacs conventionally. < 1305650457 611432 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think our new-student computer-system-primer documentation had a "here's what to do when you end up in vi" page. < 1305650464 116860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: indeed, but the option has to exist for a reason < 1305650466 267443 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Step one: Panic. < 1305650471 472233 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Give vim ^C and it says "type :quit", give ed ^C and it says "?" < 1305650478 790786 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, quitting Emacs is useful for reasons other than quitting other editors. < 1305650487 886886 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance: logging out of your time-sharing system. < 1305650504 631466 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I lol'd. < 1305650510 540158 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm surprise GNU ed doesn't have fancy error messages. < 1305650516 491650 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "Regular" vi doesn't help you with ^C, though. < 1305650517 114457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: vim reacts the same way on control-X control-C < 1305650525 134676 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably to help out lost Emacs users < 1305650529 658659 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so what is c-x? < 1305650530 317456 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fail < 1305650533 993094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I never even thought of trying Emacs' quit sequence in vim < 1305650539 836754 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Give vim ^C and it says "type :quit", give ed ^C and it says "?" < 1305650540 75459 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant: vim reacts the same way on control-X control-C < 1305650546 509215 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess what C-c is? < 1305650547 954950 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's right, ^C. < 1305650549 259796 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: yes, it's probably because the control- X doesn't leave it in a state where control-C has a different meaning < 1305650553 693751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but vi is very modal < 1305650558 831165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is vim < 1305650561 438908 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl+X literally does nothing. < 1305650566 901456 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that's to help out Emacs users. < 1305650573 214895 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim doesn't use Ctrl much. < 1305650579 47526 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean what C-x in emacs. < 1305650583 738065 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+is < 1305650589 934559 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ? < 1305650592 645696 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Oh. < 1305650592 727464 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't have regular vi on any of my machines, so I couldn't check :-P These days you run into vim more often anyway < 1305650596 591134 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: C-x is just a prefix. < 1305650601 154584 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does nothing by itself, you just put stuff after it. < 1305650611 830712 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Without it, you'd run out of keys on the keyboard to press to do things.) < 1305650613 249605 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's like... super-alt? :P < 1305650629 917216 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Ctrl+X decrements the number under the cursor < 1305650631 93336 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like a sticky mega-alt that lasts for one additional keycombo. :p < 1305650634 450180 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Heh. < 1305650645 174361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas ESC is literally prefix alt < 1305650657 116211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt-X and ESC X have the same meaning in Emacs < 1305650660 298744 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: More like alt is combination ESC. < 1305650668 111348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ESC ESC x has the same meaning as ESC alt-X < 1305650669 679104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: indeed < 1305650676 322904 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....waaaat. why. < 1305650681 93258 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Because of terminals. < 1305650684 386280 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, technically it's meta not alt, but most modern Emacsen translate < 1305650687 38970 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ESC didn't used to mean "lol exit". < 1305650700 737660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: over telnet, you can't distinguish alt-letter from esc letter except by the timing < 1305650702 380502 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt+x is, VT[one hundred]-wise, just ESC, followed by alt. < 1305650702 789338 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, escape as in escape sequence. < 1305650703 496497 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm. < 1305650704 912301 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt+x is, VT[one hundred]-wise, just ESC, followed by x. < 1305650708 832004 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "over telnet"? < 1305650714 779531 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's an anachronism as far as Emacs goes. < 1305650756 29287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I know, but it's relevant for /me/ < 1305650760 160815 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I do a lot of roguelike development < 1305650774 184774 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...awesome. :) < 1305650779 304320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and telnet lacks the nuances to get anything other than the vt100 terminal codes, portably at least < 1305650796 823934 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how that means ESC actually takes some amount of time in vi(m). < 1305650803 834374 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to work on MUD servers back in the day (read: like 2 years ago) < 1305650805 561276 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's waiting to see if you'll send cursor-control bytes. < 1305650815 59486 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(OK, some amount = imperceptable, but still.) < 1305650818 260144 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]imperceptible < 1305650857 409894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it isn't my server, but it's my NetHack fork: telnet acehack.rawrnix.com < 1305650872 62818 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still a bit buggy atm, although it's in beta not alpha < 1305650879 525121 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... -uses his MUD client instead of telnet- < 1305650885 635731 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: After you've (in panic) managed to accidentally modify your file, the ":quit" tip isn't really enough. (Admittedly :q then says "add ! to override", but it doesn't tell where to "add" that, and if you then type plain ! you're likely to get real confused + accidentally run a shell command too.) < 1305650912 920339 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vi was created in an attempt to trick emacs users into removing all their files < 1305650914 723340 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRUE CHRONOLOGIES < 1305650957 68133 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there anything in emacs that REQUIRES the use of a mouse? < 1305650968 613029 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Mayhap < 1305650972 384494 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I notice that the "open file" option has no key combination next to it. < 1305650984 524883 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: C-x C-f < 1305650991 209064 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody uses the toolbar or menu. < 1305650993 84039 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody. < 1305651011 200689 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Now ais523 will say he does, just to prove me wrong, because he uses Emacs in the silliest way possible.) < 1305651025 359542 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it looks pretty awful. < 1305651038 54014 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You can turn them off in your ~/.emacs. < 1305651045 290817 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think anyone doesn't. < 1305651053 417352 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I'll keep them while I'm getting the hang of things. < 1305651090 382871 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I think I've used the menu, though not habitually. < 1305651092 370669 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll definitely want to put some things in your ~/.emacs soonish, since the defaults are insane in some ways. < 1305651108 379819 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I'll look into it soon. < 1305651109 789736 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, even if you like to indent with four spaces, it'll replace every eight-space sequence with a tab. < 1305651122 414512 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1305651124 372323 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :....x < 1305651124 789408 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :......whut. yes, that needs to go. < 1305651129 105930 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :============x < 1305651132 71842 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :========....y < 1305651136 711241 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :================z < 1305651141 991059 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh god. < 1305651142 72955 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :========....y < 1305651143 533081 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :....x < 1305651147 66657 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where . is space and = is a tab. < 1305651149 863302 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1305651153 744942 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eight =s are a tab. < 1305651154 570019 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, . is a space and eight =s are a tab. < 1305651155 644764 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I use the menu via F10 sometimes, which pops it up in a separate buffer, when I can't remember what a command's called < 1305651155 973781 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1305651165 179187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that count as using the menu in the sense you were referring to? < 1305651169 479689 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Not really. < 1305651182 490520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, I think < 1305651190 666115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a GUI menu would just take up space, although it took me a while to figure out how to disable it < 1305651223 69611 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: yes I'd like to know how to change that behavior immediately. :P < 1305651276 531114 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Depends. < 1305651291 269860 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Do you want to indent with single tabs all the time but show them as some width other than eight, or do you want to indent exclusively with spaces? < 1305651311 956149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(custom-set-variables '(indent-tabs-mode nil)) goes to space-exclusive indentation < 1305651312 281008 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the latter, it's (setq-default indent-tabs-mode nil). < 1305651315 782048 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ugh < 1305651317 956745 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see I wish MUDs could take advantage of telnet. But there's virtually no support for that kind of thing. < 1305651321 234348 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Useless Use of Custom Award < 1305651328 402032 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the latter, it's (setq-default indent-tabs-mode nil) AND DEFINITELY NOT WHAT AIS JUST SAID. < 1305651331 411027 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: not useless, as that's how I made the setting in the first place < 1305651341 915770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former doesn't exist, as tabs always mean 8 < 1305651341 997506 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I prefer spaces honestly. < 1305651349 445084 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Troll. < 1305651381 445607 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: the other opinion has ruined tabs for everyone < 1305651389 470373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as if they don't have a meaning, they're meaningless, and thus can't be used < 1305651399 634201 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Your opinion is not popular as has been established many times. < 1305651408 469625 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop being a pain by assuming everyone shares it, since you know they don't. < 1305651409 170117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: that doesn't mean it isn't /correct/ < 1305651422 462381 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trying to help CakeProphet configure Emacs. < 1305651425 123039 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh god. tab/spaces flamewar? < 1305651430 1589 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no < 1305651434 221570 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an even stupider flamewar than that < 1305651440 192808 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only one on ais523's side is ais523 < 1305651443 502605 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, he's the only one who ever brings it up < 1305651450 914118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: NetHack source agrees with me < 1305651458 880486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as does C-INTERCAL's before I started working on it < 1305651462 531038 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If you had just said "I don't think you should do that", fine. But stating it as a fact when you know many people in here disagree strongly _is trolling_. < 1305651473 262451 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to reply to any further lines on the matter because that would be feeding the troll. < 1305651473 763170 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :As do vi's and emacs's defaults < 1305651475 275147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's every open source project I've made major contributions to < 1305651484 338315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: vi's too? I didn't know that < 1305651488 313107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I did know it wrt Emacs) < 1305651508 729198 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure of it < 1305651514 516872 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been my experience that in modern programming spaces-only is preferred. < 1305651520 161345 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Uh, no. < 1305651525 366010 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: vi does not indent with mixed tabs/spaces by default. < 1305651546 160345 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it only does if you change shiftwidth < 1305651548 303120 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shows tabs as shift-to-next-multiple-of-eight by default but that is not the same thing. < 1305651579 463785 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright so which file does this setq go in? < 1305651589 446062 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It's a setq-default, and ~/.emacs. < 1305651600 589910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: and what about this? I did some editing on Nibbles, and it uses two-space indentation, with the following at the top of the file: /* -*- Mode: C; indent-tabs-mode: t; c-basic-offset: 8; tab-width: 8 -*- */ < 1305651617 224659 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, that specification of the file format completely contradicts the actual /content/ of the file (which uses two-space indentation and never tabs) < 1305651618 940477 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: okay. I was just saying setq for brevity. < 1305651621 706337 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Please realise that I am not looking to change your opinion or get into a flamewar because I've done that enough times about this and have realised it's fucking pointless. I am just telling you that expressing it in the blunt way you do that ignores all differing opinions is trolling. < 1305651634 487737 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not going to respond to any defences of your opinion because that is not what this is about. < 1305651642 141731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I'm trying to say that as far as I can tell, my opinion is the majority one among open-source code < 1305651649 125007 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It does not matter what your opinion is. < 1305651654 692619 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It matters how you're expressing it. < 1305651660 289102 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Right; setq is something subtly different. < 1305651677 853701 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :halp! C-x C-f isn't doing anything. < 1305651683 754285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: the difference is subtle enough that setq will generally normally work, but is nonetheless incorrect < 1305651692 803300 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes it is. < 1305651697 388021 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at the bottom of the window. < 1305651724 118930 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey! that was cut off. < 1305651838 496441 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay. there's .emacs and then .emacs.d < 1305651855 70435 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :.emacs.d is just zis directory, you know? < 1305651878 76439 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...uh, so, C-v is paste I'm hoping? < 1305651884 953301 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1305651886 802898 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-y < 1305651888 861701 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kind of. < 1305651923 747282 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs predates your foolish standardised keyboard commands! < 1305651935 61824 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can basically use C-w as cut, M-w as copy, C-y as paste < 1305651943 262382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the commands have a bit more functionality than that, though < 1305651945 35008 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except selection also works as copy. < 1305651947 612941 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :......... < 1305651948 925675 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(To the X selection.) < 1305651955 736115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: selection with the mouse, that is < 1305651962 309632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the keyboard, it doesn't < 1305651971 390761 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: If you're looking for something that acts like it was invented in the 00s or 90s, you're in the wrong place. < 1305651979 414119 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs predates just about everything else you're using, get used to it :) < 1305651983 773972 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tends to be simplest to use the mouse rather than the keyboard for copying/pasting into and out of Emacs < 1305652001 491923 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any reason I shouldn't change that to C-c, C-x and C-v? < 1305652006 967189 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1305652007 489132 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes. < 1305652007 876177 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1305652011 289881 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one, that clashes with everything. < 1305652013 270826 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-c and C-x are both prefix commands < 1305652015 13692 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For two, they do not behave identically. < 1305652021 245307 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a cua-mode that uses delays to work out which you mean... < 1305652022 855697 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But one, ugly. < 1305652023 472787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-v wouldn't be much of a clash, because it does the same thing as Page Down < 1305652028 838531 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And two, like I said: they do not act identically. < 1305652038 403302 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: C-v is a lot more convenient to press than page down. < 1305652043 772232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1305652046 528009 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is page up? < 1305652049 277808 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :M-v < 1305652059 461066 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1305652061 385711 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..ew, but okay. < 1305652066 904678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs in general doesn't assume that you've got any keys on your keyboard but letters/numbers/punctuation, control, and esc < 1305652070 779136 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-v is a nice page down though, I agree. < 1305652083 845040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it can make use of them if you happen to have them < 1305652101 384519 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least arrow keys do what I expect. :D < 1305652103 818195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically speaking you can even get by without a return/enter key < 1305652133 611325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although return is normally more convenient than C-q C-j (C-j does almost but not quite the same thing) < 1305652154 347024 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, interesting c-x c-arrow scrolls through buffers. < 1305652160 244833 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use C-j habitually now < 1305652173 542827 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, what it does is probably better than regular return < 1305652190 653016 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my fingers are trained to press tab-return instead, which is almost the same as control-j < 1305652242 920075 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :return-tab, surely < 1305652254 93029 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, interesting. < 1305652264 13337 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah I've got a pretty innate return-tab reflex. < 1305652264 637305 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: nope, I fix the indentation just before moving onto the next line < 1305652270 106430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which comes to the same thing < 1305652288 92035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes tab-return-tab or return-tab, but many major modes automatically do a tab after a return anyway < 1305652306 421678 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: except you only hit tab once, with emacs < 1305652370 145690 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: hmmm? I always hit tab once. < 1305652388 145287 :ralc!~ralc@79.142.230.243.static.knet.bolignet.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1305652396 188470 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what kind of editor has tab as "indent all the way" but doesn't automatically indent on enter? < 1305652398 119630 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from Emacs. < 1305652414 827258 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :An Emacs clone? < 1305652427 352023 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, gedit uses automatic indenting. So when I hit enter it's automatically at the same indent level as the last line < 1305652429 136047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Kate doesn't by default, but it has text in its options dialog telling you how to set it up like that < 1305652433 312468 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when I need to indent one more level I just press tab once... < 1305652436 578700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: that's not quite the same < 1305652442 230880 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the minimum needed for an editor to be sane < 1305652449 872416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not nearly as good as it could be < 1305652453 930822 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric : er, gedit uses automatic indenting. So when I hit enter it's automatically at the same indent level as the last line < 1305652458 819833 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enter goes to column one in emacs. < 1305652463 861285 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then Tab indents all the way to the current indentation level. < 1305652464 873045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find Notepad unusable precisely because of missing that feature < 1305652467 498645 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually: < 1305652470 150815 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tab just reindents the current line. < 1305652470 298484 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1305652471 614623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or any way to simulate it < 1305652479 882948 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1305652480 50888 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you type enter, tab, }, then tab, it'd move it left. < 1305652486 674269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: not necessarily; Tab reindents the current line in modes where that can be sensibly calculated < 1305652500 605901 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in modes like Python or Haskell where there's often more than one possibility that would make sense, it cycles < 1305652503 682930 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :SIN PARTY SATURDAY | GAY ORGY ALL NIGHT LONG | GLUTTONOUS FEAST | PROBABLY MURDER IF THERE'S TIME | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1305652524 799327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in text-mode or others which don't have systems like that, it just moves to the next plausible tab stop < 1305652529 30972 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't really like that topic < 1305652529 796015 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: is the tab before the } even necessary? < 1305652536 247259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't interesting, and it isn't funny either < 1305652548 745575 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You're unaware of the rapture on the 21st? :P < 1305652550 749271 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: as an option, defaulting to on, } contains an auto-reindent just like tab does < 1305652556 127783 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No. < 1305652559 482315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it still doesn't make it particularly funny < 1305652568 757815 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: But I usually use C-j instead of enter/tab all the time. < 1305652573 328394 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so tab is just a "magically tab the right way" button? < 1305652577 700055 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Pfff, have fun being raptured like a loser then. < 1305652583 89652 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Except if you're coding Python. < 1305652584 733459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 TOPIC #esoteric :Topical discussion on the best way to reinforce ceilings | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1305652587 466147 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or Haskell) < 1305652588 582109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that's a much simpler method < 1305652594 338792 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: and then it does what I'm familiar with? < 1305652594 648694 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it cycles through all possible indentations -- oh, blah blah blah < 1305652598 203360 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Just use C-j instead of enter. < 1305652604 572732 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll make life a lot easier for you. < 1305652635 541219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: my favourite example of Emacsisms is VHDL-mode, which starts a wizard whenever you type a keywords < 1305652637 526050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a keyword < 1305652643 801952 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you've ever used VHDL, you'll understand why < 1305652649 759218 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, it'll take quite a bit of time to get used to. I've already got like one hundred other things to get used to if I want to get comfortable with emacs. < 1305652662 971048 :ralc!~ralc@79.142.230.243.static.knet.bolignet.dk PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you ever log off elliott_ ? < 1305652664 237518 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs is not a fast editor to learn < 1305652666 231218 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Seriously, C-j is a lot easier to get used to than hitting tab all the time or whatever. < 1305652671 281326 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ralc: Never. Ever. < 1305652716 378792 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is the regular tab key? < 1305652717 534554 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ralc: Dude, elliott_ is a bot. < 1305652743 940428 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: What "regular tab key"? < 1305652745 349487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think all it does is listen to conversation by the actual elliott and relay back and forth < 1305652750 394897 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs is an auto-indenting editor. < 1305652760 998486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: M-x tab-to-tab-stop, if you really happen to need it for whatever reason < 1305652762 315147 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The need to insert a literal tab character ever is... zero. < 1305652765 657864 :ralc!~ralc@79.142.230.243.static.knet.bolignet.dk PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, yeah i was starting to suspect that < 1305652771 60231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rare that you do, though < 1305652780 23717 :ralc!~ralc@79.142.230.243.static.knet.bolignet.dk PRIVMSG #esoteric :every time i come to this channel elliott_ is going on about something < 1305652784 437181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or C-q C-h if you need a literal tab character for whatever reason < 1305652794 923665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(say in a string constant in Underload) < 1305652808 80649 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ralc: Yes, I do indeed talk a lot when others are talking. < 1305652814 235942 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes this is referred to as conversation. < 1305652818 675492 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOMETIMES < 1305652820 549638 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell, you scroll the help buffer with space and delete? < 1305652828 544871 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Or C-q if you want a literal tab... < 1305652835 543297 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No, you scroll the help help with space and delete. < 1305652841 341078 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is because the help help is a freaky transient buffer thing. < 1305652846 207458 :ralc!~ralc@79.142.230.243.static.knet.bolignet.dk PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe it wasn't meant as a bad thing, you keep the channel active like a 500+ channel ^^ < 1305652848 510408 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're only going to need to do it once in your life, so :P < 1305652851 869344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well, C-h is a literal tab, in theory the tab button might be bound to something else < 1305652862 963024 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ralc: The power of flamewars! < 1305652870 108290 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha < 1305652876 962860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I've done it more than once, I don't use C-h all that often so sometimes I need documentation for it < 1305652885 813207 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ralc: I'm actually like five people working in tandem, true story. < 1305652886 850049 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: perhaps you memorize things faster than me. I think I'll be referring to it a lot for a while. < 1305652893 42461 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :God dammit you already responded to that message elliott three. < 1305652902 42685 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shut the fuck up, elliott one. < 1305652909 118912 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I was here before you. I could change the password right now. < 1305652911 67401 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You wouldn't. < 1305652911 979045 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would. < 1305652914 36679 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I will. < 1305652919 160293 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop it, god dammit, okay, I < 1305652925 841053 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm chaanging it < 1305652930 670684 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PART #esoteric :"oAISJDflkhfgjf" < 1305652955 622861 :ralc!~ralc@79.142.230.243.static.knet.bolignet.dk PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever i have started, i'm so sorry :D < 1305653014 340771 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like I'll want to know C-h [acdF] < 1305653028 483594 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh but hey, C-h C-m gives me information on how to order printed Emacs manuals. awesome!! < 1305653042 805402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-h a and C-h c are probably the most useful in practice < 1305653075 964218 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 JOIN :#esoteric < 1305653080 898825 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott One is no longer with us. < 1305653086 361938 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funeral service after the rapture. < 1305653090 340518 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normal service will now continue. < 1305653108 750421 :ralc!~ralc@79.142.230.243.static.knet.bolignet.dk PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet < 1305653110 591042 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the "kill buffer" command? < 1305653131 131347 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: C-x C-k < 1305653132 440135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-x k < 1305653139 715526 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, right no C- on the k < 1305653141 880607 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although it works with it) < 1305653145 924095 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1305653147 32995 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it doesn't < 1305653153 826427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does C-x C-k do? < 1305653163 738962 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to be a prefix. < 1305653174 7858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most buffer manipulation commands don't have a C- on their second key < 1305653217 128371 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nevermind, that's apparently not what I wanted. I want to get rid of the second pane that appeared after I used C-h ? and pressed some buttons that turned it into a non-transient thing.... < 1305653230 376170 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lulz...) < 1305653237 966830 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest panicking < 1305653328 213418 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :staring at my emacs window stupidly seems like a better solution... < 1305653331 422104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: C-x 0 removes a pane, or C-x 1 removes all panes but the current one < 1305653345 604030 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :awww yeah. < 1305653346 850308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :buffers and panes exist more or less independently, except that each pane only shows one buffer at a time < 1305653374 621757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally, you just let buffers accumulate rather than actually killing them, but just show the ones you're using at the moment onscreen < 1305653379 353183 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there like, a systematic way I can learn about all of these commands? Like, are they grouped in any kind of way in the help? < 1305653386 611777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure < 1305653394 759033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a tutorial somewhere, but I'm not sure how useful it would be < 1305653400 845551 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric : generally, you just let buffers accumulate rather than actually killing them, but just show the ones you're using at the moment onscreen < 1305653404 729422 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kill buffers quite often < 1305653415 106445 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think rarely killing buffers is idiosyncratic < 1305653445 83201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well, you have garbage collection sweeps now and again, that's what M-x kill-some-buffers is for < 1305653453 613428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I generally have one Emacs session per project < 1305653456 380015 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I'm working on < 1305653468 487079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so normally it's rare to kill buffers as irrelevant, unless they're things like compilation output < 1305654448 28911 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey c-h c-h does the same thing as c-h ? < 1305654780 220217 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:24:09: How to make a tasty deep-fried treat: 1) Buy ingredients: Large vat of boiling oil, dry ice and a small Filipino boy. 2) Place Filipino boy in dry ice until frozen solid. 3) Shatter now-frozen Filipino boy into boiling oil. 4) Wait fifteen minutes, drain and enjoy! < 1305654959 533472 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the weirdest boner right now. < 1305654973 397379 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1305655873 95665 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote How to make a tasty deep-fried treat: 1) Buy ingredients: Large vat of boiling oil, dry ice and a small Filipino boy. 2) Place Filipino boy in dry ice until frozen solid. 3) Shatter now-frozen Filipino boy into boiling oil. 4) Wait fifteen minutes, drain and enjoy! I have the weirdest boner right now. < 1305655874 400577 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​425) How to make a tasty deep-fried treat: 1) Buy ingredients: Large vat of boiling oil, dry ice and a small Filipino boy. 2) Place Filipino boy in dry ice until frozen solid. 3) Shatter now-frozen Filipino boy into boiling oil. 4) Wait fifteen minutes, drain and enjoy! I have the weirdest boner right now. < 1305655891 1339 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's right, elliott_ gets no credit. < 1305655907 452830 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GROSS INACCURACY < 1305655916 21270 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you used two spaces to separate messages so I'll allow it. < 1305656233 917815 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brain hurts. too much emacs documentation. < 1305656256 82624 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm already reading about mark rings, search rings, and registers. < 1305656276 990316 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are "windows", not "panes". (And what you might call a "window" elsewhere is a "frame" instead.) < 1305656848 213984 :ajf|offline!~ajf@78.129.159.151 NICK :ajf < 1305657171 172760 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you're a window in the ass < 1305657878 899670 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What context is this? < 1305657896 795193 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :In US vernacular, the whole contraption is a window, and it consists of a frame and one or more panes. < 1305657910 859074 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(More usually called "windowpanes") < 1305657933 379089 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The context of Emacs. < 1305657943 619464 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1305657953 925385 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking the real world ;P < 1305657961 151367 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What's that?" < 1305658012 216354 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Finland, they look out of frames (composed of multiple windows). < 1305658177 774472 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things that sad me: In Scheme, (min) is invalid, rather than equal to positive infinity. < 1305658181 539129 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Similarly for (max) and negative infinity.) < 1305658524 896337 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blah, what's the thing to make ratios in Scheme? It isn't / < 1305658537 729155 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's /. < 1305658538 733111 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, maybe it's just Chicken Scheme < 1305658539 655035 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :9/9 < 1305658545 455675 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean Scheme or Racket? < 1305658552 852130 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme, but Chicken Scheme < 1305658555 309067 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you changed languages AGAIN in the past day? < 1305658557 773679 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIGH < 1305658582 99843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I change languages a lot, but I'm not looking for a One True Language because I doubt it exists < 1305658593 877899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just looking to either use something appropriate for programming, or to have fun < 1305658617 546707 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: There is a reason I am talking to Sgeo, and not you. < 1305658623 834332 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously my statements don't apply to you. < 1305658639 321085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it's more a case of, if your statements aren't generally applicable they're less convincing < 1305658646 538475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's a case of "why does that argument apply to me but not him"? < 1305658659 470548 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Chicken's "default" numeric tower is just machine-sized integers and floats; there's a (GMP-based) extension that gives it more "Scheme-like" numbers. < 1305658670 869462 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1305658671 920655 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I suppose I shouldn't even try to be convinced by arguments that aren't aimed at me < 1305658675 522280 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Thankfully I'm not trying to convince anyone! < 1305658679 55716 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Not even Sgeo. < 1305658685 295403 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You see, the "SIGH" indicates that I am simply despairing. < 1305658695 263763 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have long ago realised that convincing Sgeo of anything is impossible. < 1305658745 171486 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, Timwi appears to have given up the skin tack and is now just acting how to contact Graue, despite having already asked me and receiving a response... < 1305658756 147588 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, he wants me to unprotect MediaWiki:Common.css < 1305658763 401298 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't do that, so I feel I should forward it on to you, so you can decide not to do it < 1305658770 952471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: don't worry, I can't do it either < 1305658788 307243 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION logs in to reply < 1305658790 442779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the page is protected directly at the PHP level < 1305658818 347170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a mistake editing it can make the entire wiki unworkable < 1305658822 365440 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh I got "too many unprocessed floats" from tex < 1305658831 221872 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :never seen that before < 1305658837 356781 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial to fix however, adding a clearpage < 1305658900 810886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what's the equivalent of "typesetting", but for layout on a page rather than fonts? < 1305658915 238833 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :layoutsetting maybe? < 1305658922 8334 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Typesetting involves layout too. < 1305658925 783869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that's a real word < 1305658927 299966 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: ah < 1305658927 565532 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you mean what things like InDesign do, right? < 1305658932 585412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a word for just the layout portion? < 1305658939 562767 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... what you do when you're "desktop publishing". < 1305658940 796957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and things like TeX as opposed to Metafont < 1305658942 834467 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a word, but I've forgotten it. < 1305658953 213516 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"PageMakering." :p < 1305658953 294630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I know, and I've forgotten it too < 1305658956 263688 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, what if you do layout without using a computer < 1305658961 499979 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PageMakering. Perfect[exclamation mark] < 1305658971 127211 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Like I said, it's what you do when you're desktop publishing. < 1305658972 264149 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened to PageMaker? < 1305658988 14831 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Discontinued, it seems. < 1305658996 366644 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :InDesign is the new thing. < 1305658999 163302 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1305659002 851917 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The upmarket thing. < 1305659003 265616 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, hm. But doesn't desktop publishing involve a computer < 1305659007 466482 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 2004, Adobe announced that development for Adobe PageMaker had ceased but that Adobe would continue to sell and support it. InDesign was presented as the successor product.[11] Upgrades from PageMaker to InDesign 2.0 and (after the release of InDesign CS) a "PageMaker Plug-in Pack" were offered, containing PageMaker-specific features and help topics, complimentary Myriad Pro fonts and templates. < 1305659009 497251 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, the new thing. < 1305659021 120140 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What I said is in no way implying that desktop publishing is the ONLY way to do that thing. < 1305659030 304584 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, what about that other one, Quark Express or something? < 1305659039 543783 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it was Quark, Qark maybe? < 1305659049 700348 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :QuarkXPress. < 1305659057 825309 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1305659061 961017 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, is that one dead? < 1305659062 204954 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think it's just "layout [creation/etc.]" < 1305659070 29419 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=quark+express&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 < 1305659070 111439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps < 1305659082 22444 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that was freakish and bizarre. < 1305659096 595128 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not finish my linear algebra homework. *But*, I got an almost-perfect grade on it. < 1305659104 150130 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Page_layout seems to be talking about the thing, but doesn't seem to contain any particular word for it. < 1305659119 165303 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's call it "layoutificatifiing". < 1305659121 767169 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to annoy ais523. < 1305659122 146103 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to complain. < 1305659129 815402 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :("deals with the arrangement and style treatment of elements (content) on a page".) < 1305659163 725888 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh the weird blueish kind-of-category thing in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuarkXPress lists LyX as DTP < 1305659174 153940 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scribus yes, but not really Lyx < 1305659176 895532 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :LyX* < 1305659193 308518 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lyx is just a GUI for working with latex < 1305659200 525804 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh my dear God, someone actually outdid JSMIPS. < 1305659200 694636 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :LaTeX is DTP. < 1305659211 242973 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes but LaTeX is not listed there < 1305659213 338586 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: welcome to earlier today < 1305659215 399482 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If it weren't Fabrice Bellard, I'd imagine you'd be horribly depressed. < 1305659218 67819 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, nor is texmacs < 1305659219 227345 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, DTP is WYSIWYG. < 1305659225 17862 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Yes, yes, I had a final. Shaddup. < 1305659225 466709 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So LaTeX is not really standard DTP. < 1305659226 812525 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But LyX is. < 1305659230 370439 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1305659236 210026 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeXmacs is a semantic tool. < 1305659238 478587 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it is not really DTP. < 1305659243 295350 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, LyX is not really about layout, it is more about semantics too < 1305659243 736122 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As you can't really do much layout at all apart from separately... < 1305659246 273516 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not WYSIWYG. < 1305659251 529166 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sure, but you can style it more directly than TeXmacs. < 1305659255 582312 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, hm okay < 1305659258 765909 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :LyX officially is WYSIWYM. < 1305659261 530299 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well yeah I can insert raw latex < 1305659263 349749 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway TeXmacs is less popular, so. < 1305659284 104934 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Translation: "What you see isn't what you get because our rendering sucks" :-) < 1305659295 647964 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeXmacs is actually quite close to WYSIWYG in a literal sense. < 1305659297 159041 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: No, it's the paradigm! < 1305659303 742328 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: PARADIIIIIGM < 1305659310 910464 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I mean, the only layout this document I'm writing atm has is a clearpage, and only because latex bugged out on too many unprocessed floats halfway < 1305659315 92587 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: " I’m pretty sure ais523 would get tired of that very quickly. I’ll try e-mailing Graue. Thanks! — Timwi 19:08, 17 May 2011 (UTC)" < 1305659329 386446 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, why on earth would Timwi want to edit the stylesheet on a regular basis? < 1305659331 984867 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: Translation: "What you see isn't what you get because our rendering sucks" :-) <-- actually that's a feature < 1305659337 295654 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I quite like it that way < 1305659346 734204 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I get a font that works better for the screen there < 1305659356 607279 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and another one that works better for print when I generate the pdf < 1305659363 598555 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I quite like it this way < 1305659393 352622 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I CAN HAS FINISHED SEMESTER < 1305659416 43233 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, err in English semester is the opposite of holidays right? < 1305659431 237644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not exactly < 1305659432 929653 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because in Swedish semester = long holiday (like summer break). < 1305659440 430192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :University terms are divided into semesters < 1305659441 86532 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the English sense always confuse me < 1305659446 975795 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, in that semesters and holidays don't coexist < 1305659461 778739 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and it can also be that you go on a vacation - "åka på semester" < 1305659468 613998 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In most contexts, a "semester" is a division of the school year. < 1305659477 26453 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to add to the confusion, a semester can persist across parts of multiple terms, e.g. at Birmingham University, a semester is one term, plus one week of another term) < 1305659483 851716 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, in Sweden it means either long summer break or vacation < 1305659520 500990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WYSIWYG is impossible nowadays, because not all printers are identical < 1305659531 694740 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And a long summer break is precisely what a semester isn't in English. < 1305659538 146506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's even worse if designing for screen < 1305659538 228586 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh right we have "läsperioder" (study periods, though literally "readingperiods"), 4 per year. One ends one week after xmas holidays end yes < 1305659543 424273 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The "desktop publishing software" template-portal-whatever-those-are-called is a bit weird anyway; they list "PDF-XChange", which is primarily just a PDF viewer, with some kludgy support for changing/adding text and splanting in new images on top of existing content. < 1305659554 701128 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: A reasonable approximation is *doable*, though. < 1305659558 849783 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that sounds much like UK "semester", though < 1305659562 532676 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: on paper, yes < 1305659568 83158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on screen, it's a really bad idea < 1305659575 214693 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: And a long summer break is precisely what a semester isn't in English. <-- exactly, that utterly confuses me < 1305659581 331234 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: PNGs are pretty consistent < 1305659582 825973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as everyone who does that ends up with something that doesn't reflow and normally has a horizontal scrollbar < 1305659583 824700 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to gamma < 1305659586 826631 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can't even delete/move/insert pages without buying the PRO version.) < 1305659591 32067 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that only applies to HTML < 1305659594 215964 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On screen, either accept that you're displaying an imitation of paper on screen, or give up. < 1305659602 394395 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "splanting"? < 1305659609 972759 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: PNGs aren't exactly designing for screen < 1305659613 877455 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Inserting. < 1305659617 845149 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1305659621 317422 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if they don't have the same res as the screen, they may well need a horizontal scrollbar too < 1305659625 50404 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is "splanting" a real word? < 1305659625 202371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reflowing is generally just /better/ < 1305659643 590990 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: PNGs are pretty consistent <-- not without an ICC profile < 1305659654 180326 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No. < 1305659657 599282 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: He did specify "modulo gamma". < 1305659658 948528 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like most of the C- keys in emacs are kind of.. archaic. < 1305659663 199382 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except a few. < 1305659683 705453 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Well, emacs is a fairly archaic editor. < 1305659696 124037 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, ICC is more than just plain gamma value. It contains primaries and so on too < 1305659707 588168 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then a lot of the useful stuff is tucked away in C-x < 1305659738 153293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C- keys are mostly stuff you use all the time if you don't have arrow or navigation keys on your keyboards < 1305659756 67083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, say, C-a is much easier to press than Home on a typical keyboard, with the result that I use it in all sorts of programs nowadays < 1305659761 775434 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...do people not have those? < 1305659771 239821 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, they didn't use to I guess < 1305659780 844926 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do, but they're tiny and stuck round the edges of my laptop, as there isn't really room for them < 1305659783 631821 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Those existing is a relatively modern thing. < 1305659785 306571 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, anyway you can customise key bindings fairly easily in your ~/.emacs < 1305659785 897442 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a pain to find in the dark < 1305659786 769437 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I mean, like... why not change that instead of keeping it that way? < 1305659789 546170 :Mannerisk!~mannerisk@71-38-32-217.frgo.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1305659796 468711 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :vi was *also* designed with that in mind. < 1305659801 358281 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kcab < 1305659832 174896 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vi and Emacs aren't too different; the major difference is that vi Esc and i map to Emacs hold ctrl and release ctrl < 1305659840 90249 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ofc all the other keybindings are different too < 1305659844 124868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's the major difference in principle < 1305659865 703125 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Also, Emacs is pretty universally extensible. < 1305659880 204376 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also vi isn't really scriptable. Sure vim is, but vi is not vim < 1305659887 964206 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even TECO Emacs was extensible. < 1305659898 10785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: sometimes that's a bad thing; I was once given a CGI script written in elisp < 1305659902 586075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to work out < 1305659904 384933 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, awesome < 1305659909 759361 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also, by who? < 1305659911 962235 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's both an advantage and a disadvantage. < 1305659915 260168 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When using emacs on a terminal over ssh, I use C-e instead of End because end doesn't work < 1305659918 614839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end, I rewrote it as a standalone program in Perl, given that it had no reason to be written in elisp and no reason to be a CGI script < 1305659921 551602 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and at work < 1305659933 47922 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, uh. Presumably your terminal emulator locally sucks then < 1305659939 210371 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used end key in various places over ssh < 1305659943 662008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :worse still, it required manual intervention to run properly < 1305659946 376693 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no issues < 1305659949 299413 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Either that or the remote end's termcap sucks. < 1305659951 355048 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, run the script, change the script, run the script, change the script, etc < 1305659961 824631 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, waaaat < 1305659981 351656 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you can use emacs in a terminal? < 1305659983 493172 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DJGPP Emacs seems to parse End as meaning M-> rather than C-e < 1305659987 995657 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, end of document, not end of line < 1305659992 591389 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, isn't that the normal way to use it? < 1305659997 760042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you can, emacs -nw < 1305660018 500541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it loads like that by default if it doesn't have access to anything that would let it draw a window, as is commonly the case over telnet or ssh without -X < 1305660022 21891 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.77.65 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1305660036 374675 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, the X support is fairly recent. Not more than a few decades old < 1305660036 939873 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see... < 1305660049 807806 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at most) < 1305660051 829610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote CakeProphet, the X support is fairly recent. Not more than a few decades old < 1305660053 506318 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​426) CakeProphet, the X support is fairly recent. Not more than a few decades old < 1305660065 22839 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Emacs is 35 years old. < 1305660067 15435 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, okay yeah that was slightly silly < 1305660079 60517 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, ooh anniversary < 1305660082 780882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Emacs generally, or GNU Emacs? < 1305660086 550640 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that rounded? < 1305660088 122893 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that X11 is only a little more than two decades old... < 1305660096 32511 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, it loads like that if it doesn't have access to anything that would let it draw a graphical frame. When in Emacs, speak as the... eumuchs do? < 1305660098 477774 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes, newfangled stuff < 1305660110 825827 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I interpret "recent" to be a completely different thing in the context of computing. < 1305660114 754803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but you're not /in/ Emacs, as you're loading it < 1305660119 218304 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's counting from the first functioning TECO Emacs. < 1305660123 680842 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sure, but saying "X support is fairly recent" should imply it's recent compared to X :-P < 1305660126 485788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1305660127 539417 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But it's Emacs that's doing the loading-of-itself. < 1305660136 801539 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, ah < 1305660149 725618 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey, now that I know I can use emacs in telnet, I no longer have an excuse to use pico. :) < 1305660151 227831 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*GNU* Emacs is 26 years old. < 1305660164 482613 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1305660167 422447 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm surprised that it was gnuised after only 9 years < 1305660168 593194 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, so older than X? < 1305660175 850435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it was pretty much the first thing GNU did < 1305660204 27527 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do you guys have any recommendations for my .emacs? < 1305660220 194171 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend a file, as opposed to, say, a pipe. < 1305660223 299767 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The X Windowing System is older by a couple of years. < 1305660227 889432 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting thought experiment. Figure out what will happen to various organisations when their leading figure retires. < 1305660238 204728 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example: What will happen to GNU when RMS retires or dies. < 1305660238 952703 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: X11 is younger by a year. < 1305660254 742126 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: (load-file "/home/ais523/esoteric/intercal/ick-0.27/etc/intercal.el") (load-file "/home/ais523/esoteric/esolangs.el") (esolangs-recognize-extensions) < 1305660258 937923 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it will survive probably. Apple without Steve Jobs is less certain < 1305660268 663371 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux without Linus Torvalds? Chaos or? < 1305660278 706350 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :who would have the final word and so on < 1305660281 162078 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU without RMS? Probably not a hell of a lot different. < 1305660284 262664 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: note that you'll either have to create a user account for me on your computer, or else change the paths < 1305660295 516847 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, indeed < 1305660299 231516 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have a directory in /home without an account. < 1305660307 113986 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, the other two examples would be more interesting < 1305660312 201717 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know where I can get those files? < 1305660318 746029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more seriously, (global-font-lock-mode 1) is a nice option, as is (setq visible-bell t) < 1305660328 855029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: they were on pastebin.ca, which is down now < 1305660334 897935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :intercal.el should be easy enough to find, at least < 1305660336 902970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :give me a moment < 1305660337 450537 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sprunge them < 1305660357 377838 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, so what about Apple without Jobs or Linux without Torvals? < 1305660359 753364 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Valds* < 1305660361 401693 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1305660363 499317 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Torvalds* < 1305660386 251508 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gitorious.org/intercal/intercal/blobs/raw/6a0c3bba084cf42972f43dcd2f92b83f3e81c3ae/intercal.el < 1305660396 307048 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux without Torvalds would probably devolve unto the maintainer of one of the major subsystems. < 1305660404 436499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, ah < 1305660407 180919 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple without Jobs would do about as well as Apple did without Jobs in the 90s. < 1305660415 272298 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is to say, "be totally fucked". < 1305660415 480163 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, you mean badly? < 1305660418 358957 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1305660434 368600 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, further ones: Perl without Larry Wall, Python without Guido van Rossum (spelling?), OpenBSD without Theo de Radt (spelling?) < 1305660438 303409 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh: "Version 13, the first public release, was made on March 20, 1985. The first widely distributed version of GNU Emacs was 15.34, which appeared later in 1985. Versions 2 to 12 never existed. Earlier versions of GNU Emacs had been numbered "1.x.x", but sometime after version 1.12 the decision was made to drop the "1", as it was thought the major number would never change." < 1305660438 714480 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: more interested in the esolangs one, actually. but I'll add this one too. < 1305660452 635446 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Fucked, fucked, fucked, IMO. < 1305660456 779765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the esolangs one is a little unfinished, let me sprunge it < 1305660473 946492 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, right. < 1305660491 832913 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, freebsd has a board of trustees or something like that right? < 1305660501 565360 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, FreeBSD doesn't do the benevolent dictator bit. < 1305660510 603338 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, what about NetBSD? < 1305660515 68083 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, it is fucked already < 1305660522 603537 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux is one of the few projects with a benevolent dictator with a lot of structure *besides* that, making filling that gap pretty easy. < 1305660547 860425 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see Perl existing with Larry Wall in its current state, since it's a pretty useful language. However, new incarnations of Perl may be fucked... since that's basically what is happening to Perl 6. < 1305660554 108025 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetBSD has a Board of Directors. < 1305660558 25644 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1305660591 633000 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what other projects risk dying? < 1305660605 758836 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :major ones I mean < 1305660611 567470 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia without Jimbo! (just kidding) < 1305660622 558595 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... I think they would survive quite the same < 1305660639 485970 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about Ubuntu without Mark Shuttleworth (sp?) < 1305660654 290884 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :though in that case it is lack of money < 1305660659 816493 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you talking about? Jimmy Wales makes every single edit to Wikipedia. He even pretends to be multiple users on talk pages. < 1305660662 288332 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu without Mark Shuttleworth would change drastically. He bankrolls the whole thing. < 1305660671 414391 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, right < 1305660697 250408 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so, Ubuntu users, do you guys actually use the new Unity crap? < 1305660704 124033 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I switched it off. < 1305660713 760146 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, I use 10.04. Long term support. < 1305660715 13735 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1305660715 94823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I haven't upgraded to a version that has it < 1305660725 329978 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. nevermind then. well < 1305660725 847284 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slackware would literally stop without Volkerding. < 1305660738 402110 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, interesting family name < 1305660738 827157 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He isn't the benevolent dictator, he is the sole developer. < 1305660739 747865 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1305660749 526297 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latest release has this horrid new Mac-like interface. Kill it when you encounter it. < 1305660752 214128 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, right, I guess no one else would step up < 1305660799 963022 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though if someone actually *did* step up, it'd keep going just fine. Slackware's set up such that it only really takes a single person to manage it. < 1305660826 419142 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, that must be a smart setup, how does it work? < 1305660859 762200 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about Mozilla without the lizard? < 1305660877 386867 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh lyx 2.0 released < 1305660882 996395 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a big jump in version number < 1305660886 340023 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what changed < 1305660890 875936 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1305660892 383631 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nice one < 1305660906 435137 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I presume they have some sort of Allosaurus-style setup at Mozilla.) < 1305660911 584307 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :LyX 1.6.10 released. (May 9, 2011) < 1305660911 665356 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :LyX 2.0.0 released. (May 8, 2011) < 1305660916 40785 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :these guys < 1305660923 187181 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1305660923 654424 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :take stable support seriously < 1305660931 413421 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1305660948 688226 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of like distros in a bit < 1305660962 167992 :cheater79!~cheater23@ip-80-226-237-130.vodafone-net.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1305660979 512649 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually just a very, very simple UNIXy setup. Each package has a shell script that builds it and creates a .txz. All packages are unpatched. < 1305660999 419195 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the time, to make a new release he just needs to bump versions, build, test, release. < 1305661011 565021 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, no patches anywhere? Really hm < 1305661019 309469 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sorry, not "all". < 1305661021 930116 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Almost all". < 1305661025 105899 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1305661036 102358 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, some stuff will simply need patching < 1305661048 861954 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah I remember slackware didn't patch icons and so on < 1305661052 935733 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor does arch of course < 1305661083 129243 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/NewInLyX20/#advsearch <-- this looks quite interesting < 1305661091 27786 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not so much "clever" as it is "supremely lazy". < 1305661109 516068 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :serching with regexp and formatting and what not < 1305661120 343276 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh and FINALLY spell check on the fly < 1305661192 456542 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on the new-feature overview, LyX 2.0 doesn't sound *that* much like a radical change. (But of course they have to bump up the major version number at some point, and certainly there's quite a large number of them small-ish changes.) < 1305661235 753993 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think there are internal architectural changes too < 1305661257 839429 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also new backends < 1305661285 855785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: http://sprunge.us/AQhd is esolangs.el (usable but still unfinished) < 1305661304 362469 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, of course since iirc xetex doesn't support microtyping yet I think I'll stick with pdflatex for the time being < 1305661676 170620 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1305661684 360698 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric : although, say, C-a is much easier to press than Home on a typical keyboard, with the result that I use it in all sorts of programs nowadays < 1305661687 165323 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-a/C-e are great < 1305661703 252260 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, I'm now convinced that Timwi doesn't know what minor edits are for < 1305661705 590902 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :# (diff) (hist) . . m Talk:Main Page‎; 19:08 . . (+170) . . Timwi (Talk | contribs) < 1305661707 908806 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's adding a whole comment < 1305661720 621983 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thank you very much. :) < 1305661722 165593 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the easiest one would be C-j < 1305661726 734172 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :cuz it uses both hands < 1305661729 138948 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: what did he answer? < 1305661739 243382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: pretty much no chord uses both hands for me < 1305661750 479283 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, esolangs.el < 1305661752 248038 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how useless :P < 1305661752 919156 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I type pretty much any single chord one-handed unless it's physically impossible < 1305661772 270593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :using both hands only for the purpose of typing faster as each can cover a different area of the keyboard < 1305661789 901808 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you type C-j like that? < 1305661792 53108 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have gotten into the habit of using specific keys < 1305661805 206775 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i need my chords to be reasonable on both a netbook keyboard and a regular keyboard, so two-handed chords are frequently requiring of less contortion < 1305661810 991441 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :left control, right shift, left alt (although my right alt is actually an alt-gr, so that's necessarily) < 1305661833 79718 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thing doesn't even have right control < 1305661838 464433 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1305661842 118723 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :my right alt is compose < 1305661865 191468 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: my right alt is technically induces dead keys rather than being compose < 1305661868 342831 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:16:26: that's what I mean, like... why not change that instead of keeping it that way? < 1305661868 657329 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's the same principle < 1305661871 889747 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and break people's muscle memory? < 1305661873 431638 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't type normally so I can't do right-handed combinations very well. I have to use both hands for those. < 1305661887 219744 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you a hunt-and-pecker? < 1305661887 607139 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're _meant_ to use both hands to chord < 1305661904 83929 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:17:12: vi and Emacs aren't too different; the major difference is that vi Esc and i map to Emacs hold ctrl and release ctrl < 1305661908 76694 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: they're breaking muscle memory either way, because I have tons of muscle memory from every other text editor I've encountered that doesn't apply to emacs. < 1305661910 227678 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that, using vi like that is a misuse < 1305661923 868205 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You're not an Emacs user (before now), so they have no responsibility to you as far as muscle memory goes. < 1305661928 835007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: actually, no it isn't < 1305661932 876514 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Annoying your users is generally a bad idea. < 1305661933 785674 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: not really. I just memorize how to type words, pretty much < 1305661938 982146 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes it is, in the sense that it's inefficient and vi users will laugh at you. < 1305661941 331922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't go into insert mode when you're moving the cursor around, etc < 1305661949 784164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like you don't generally let go of control when you're moving the cursor around < 1305661951 235134 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I type each word a partiulcar way. I mainly stick to my index and middle finger while typing but I keep pretty good typing speeds. < 1305662000 181056 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you type partiulcar? < 1305662009 764110 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..good one. :P < 1305662039 350367 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:19:41: Sgeo: you can use emacs in a terminal? < 1305662040 505726 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:19:52: CakeProphet, isn't that the normal way to use it? < 1305662042 587742 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, no it's not < 1305662044 531946 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually re-typing partiulcar requires a little more thought and slows down my typing speed. < 1305662052 515956 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's a perfectly accepted way but by no means the most common) < 1305662058 211200 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least only counting local use) < 1305662124 575014 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads Vorpal seriously wonder whether Apple will survive without Steve Jobs. < 1305662139 135879 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, a tremendously profitable and popular company with an immense brand identity will collapse because its CEO dies. < 1305662152 287858 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The shareholders will just say "well, guess that's over then" go home. < 1305662184 376477 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:25:28: CakeProphet: they were on pastebin.ca, which is down now < 1305662186 226261 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :false < 1305662187 440885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it'll probably lose a huge chunk of its stock price if Jobs leave, not because the company is necessarily doomed but because shareholders are ridiculous < 1305662190 358757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it's back up again? < 1305662195 949193 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads elliott comment and dissect on everything that was said recently and not-so-recently.  < 1305662203 800973 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads this line. < 1305662206 941588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it is as well < 1305662209 752366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! < 1305662234 494314 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:27:14: pikhq_, further ones: Perl without Larry Wall, Python without Guido van Rossum (spelling?), OpenBSD without Theo de Radt (spelling?) < 1305662241 964730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other slepp.ca sites seem down, though < 1305662245 682187 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.lyx.org/uploads/LyX/NewInLyX20/themes.png <-- a lot of the icons in the new themes don't really work well < 1305662249 984400 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python will survive, it's too boring to die < 1305662257 353391 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'll just add more bearocracy < 1305662260 592961 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruled by grizzlies < 1305662261 364309 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, hah < 1305662274 209966 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenBSD might die, but OpenSSH won't < 1305662282 742358 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl won't die because... corporations, dude < 1305662291 537504 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ActiveState aren't going to let Perl di < 1305662292 214264 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1305662295 213267 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they make money off it < 1305662298 518843 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1305662307 842256 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you know what happened to Apple during the 90s < 1305662308 163403 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same goes for every company with software written in Perl, just indirectly < 1305662316 224612 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yah, they had a lull. < 1305662335 645040 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It wasn't so much that Jobs was a genius as whoeveritwas was an idiot. < 1305662383 627137 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right < 1305662411 664805 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:28:42: Linux is one of the few projects with a benevolent dictator with a lot of structure *besides* that, making filling that gap pretty easy. < 1305662417 631363 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux development has a lot of structure? < 1305662420 903278 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1305662425 944607 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, of course < 1305662427 551568 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure about that. < 1305662430 880666 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Informal structure, yes. < 1305662436 568696 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Formal, not so much. < 1305662436 675728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think part of the reason git was invented was so that its development process could work < 1305662450 545203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a lot of people with their own repos accepting certain sorts of patches, which Linus pulls from and does the final approval < 1305662461 783829 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but that's hardly structure. < 1305662466 194541 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's more lack of structure. < 1305662477 231582 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bunch of people do things and then Linus (the dictator) decides to pull them in. < 1305662488 18802 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: compare it to, say, the NetHack devteam, or C-INTERCAL's development < 1305662490 161565 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also, some people get flamed less and flame more on the mailing list, because they've been there a long time. < 1305662493 710181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linus isn't pulling patches from the general public < 1305662498 322475 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the latter is one person? < 1305662502 808458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's pulling it from other people who pull patches from other people < 1305662506 160199 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: technically two, nowadays < 1305662508 392096 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's one person and one idiot. :P < 1305662511 878606 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1305662513 278577 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, but he's not pulling patches from a preset group of people. < 1305662518 407216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is, I thought < 1305662520 323703 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot about esr < 1305662524 106818 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What you're describing to me is a /lack/ of structure. < 1305662526 797631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those are pulling from preset groups too < 1305662532 103269 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's not /dev/random, but there's no hierarchy. < 1305662540 542280 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all basically the whim of Linus in the end. < 1305662553 152319 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how Linux would survive with its current structure if Linus died or stepped down. < 1305662557 115000 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, an amazingly good whim so far < 1305662573 770918 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either someone else would step up -- very unlikely, it's a lot of work etc. < 1305662577 557326 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or it'd get more formal. < 1305662583 929783 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(think Linux Foundation) < 1305662604 181217 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(an organisation that exists to give Torvalds a paycheck) < 1305662608 68007 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, Allan Cox or someone like that could step up. < 1305662631 908971 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: The subsystem maintainers actually have a large portion of the workload. I suspect that one of them would reasonably step up, and it'd only be a question of which one. < 1305662645 641993 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I dunno about that -- Wikipedia'd for THE UPPER HAND IN THE ARGUMENT -- "On 28 July 2009, Cox walked away from the TTY layer, which he still maintained, after receiving criticism from Torvalds.[2][3]" < 1305662650 654599 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't seem like a good dictator ;) < 1305662652 811268 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: a sentient AI created by Torvalds could step up. < 1305662653 84131 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1305662658 206971 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: elliott_ doesn't believe there are subsystem maintainers, even though I've tried to tell him at least three times < 1305662662 298527 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well okay, Andrew Morton then < 1305662666 158130 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know there are subsystem maintainers. < 1305662670 128992 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And no, I don't see you telling me that.) < 1305662675 201463 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, yeah, it has hardly any *formal* structure. Just a lot of informal structure. < 1305662676 405277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why do you keep ignoring me when I say there are? < 1305662682 748966 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Because you haven't been saying that. < 1305662695 390983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said Linus pulls from a set group of people < 1305662697 748759 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You might /think/ you've been saying that.) < 1305662707 60876 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yep, but that's way too vague to count. < 1305662715 879395 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you were trying to make that point you should have just made it directly... < 1305662715 961274 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1305662724 545279 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I'd say sentient AI is the best hope for the survival of future Linux. < 1305662735 123619 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1305662748 970575 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, what's next? Torvalds brain in a jar? < 1305662751 716245 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :have Linux maintained by AI of course. < 1305662758 23940 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an AI has better things to do < 1305662759 399612 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1305662765 340248 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's get a spam filter to accept or reject linux patches < 1305662769 966831 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on all of linus' decisions < 1305662794 784222 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I kind of doubt that would work well, but it would be an interesting experiment < 1305662798 641680 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :spam filter? What about the Nigerian developers? < 1305662800 748267 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see how well it coincides < 1305662809 874643 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In essence, Linus is not a major developer on Linux. He's the guy merging in git branches. This structure is not really too hard to maintain with the existence of other people who would be trusted in that same position. < 1305662814 428517 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, he meant bayesian filter < 1305662814 631343 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a matter of selecting one. < 1305662839 304240 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ...tough crowd. < 1305662873 202544 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, also linux wouldn't fail. You said too many depend on Perl. Well even more so for linux < 1305662874 123287 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wah wah WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH < 1305662879 39129 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I never said it would fail. < 1305662883 417690 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1305662889 426011 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: would you really want Bayes in charge of Linux development, given how it acted in Agora? < 1305662892 308914 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said that it doesn't have the kind of structure that Linus could just disappear and it'd all tick fine with not much of a change. < 1305662901 659166 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Are you suggesting that Bayes acted anything other than wonderfully? < 1305662903 260106 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ooh tell me about this < 1305662910 156217 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Me and comex wrote a bot to play Agora. < 1305662911 281352 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was awesome. < 1305662915 466060 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used SpamBayes to vote on proposals. < 1305662920 276603 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It played the AAA with brute-force. < 1305662920 881642 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, heh < 1305662921 424666 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The end. < 1305662927 262074 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAA? < 1305662931 585745 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agoran Agricultural Association. < 1305662937 979322 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, also spambayes is "meh" < 1305662940 819908 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It played optimally, which saved me the effort of working out how to play myself. < 1305662945 205592 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Who cares, it's Python. < 1305662948 580430 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the important thing. :p < 1305662950 225227 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1305662953 47022 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't "import spamassassin". < 1305662961 549288 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, how can you brute force AAA? < 1305662965 779838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they had to take the author names off all the data they fed to it < 1305662969 469741 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does AAA work < 1305662973 677357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because otherwise it just rejected everything by comex < 1305662975 933099 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes; otherwise it did too well. < 1305662981 425937 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh? < 1305662989 314945 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: AAA is gone now and I never understood it, so. < 1305663007 217606 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, it also made its own proposals. < 1305663011 441876 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: With a Markov chain of accepted proposals. < 1305663019 207526 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1305663022 341212 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... don't think one ever got adopted. < 1305663028 110935 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, indeed < 1305663034 24585 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1305663039 204936 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :god bayes was awesome, makes me wish partnerships still existed < 1305663048 569433 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, anyway how did you decide which ones were ham and which ones were spam when training it < 1305663056 982494 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1305663063 699025 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Partnerships were pretty awesome. < 1305663064 133897 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: which ones passed and which ones failed < 1305663077 781900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://agora-notary.wikidot.com/the-agoran-agricultural-association < 1305663080 56669 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, do you gain something from voting for passing ones? < 1305663118 177674 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Bayes was three years ago. < 1305663126 753997 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot has changed; your question has no concrete answer. < 1305663129 991806 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timeframise it. < 1305663133 691409 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If this contract is a contest, the SoA is its Contestmaster." <-- wat < 1305663135 283019 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ugh, that wiki < 1305663144 313758 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Contracts had to be voted in as contests. < 1305663144 395748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I disliked it too < 1305663147 832280 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, did you gain* < 1305663149 832989 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1305663152 520879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only tolerated it because of a scam I'd been planning for months < 1305663156 272402 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Don't remember. < 1305663158 142499 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha < 1305663185 174227 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, you started using it after eso-std.org went bust and my report formatter output thusly went offline, right? < 1305663185 862116 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1305663190 254873 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was because someone else got elected < 1305663192 215615 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and decided to use it < 1305663194 162360 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're terrible < 1305663198 572943 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it Murphy? < 1305663203 647826 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was Murphy < 1305663210 152339 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nomic.bob-space.com/agoralog.aspx?contract=Notary < 1305663220 522421 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good to know the Gigantic Single Point of Failure is still working < 1305663222 279352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bob-space is still up? < 1305663225 46055 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure would suck if we still used it < 1305663234 852123 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, is that server-side VBScript? < 1305663237 586956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, no it isn't < 1305663238 922816 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with that < 1305663248 366097 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bob-space.com sure is < 1305663250 329994 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not the nomic. < 1305663257 740245 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :During the voting period of a Proposal, a Farmer CAN once Harvest < 1305663257 885191 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ID number of that proposal. As soon as possible after doing so, < 1305663257 967316 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the SoA CAN and SHALL award that Farmer 2 y-axis points if the proposal was Ordinary, < 1305663257 967416 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 4 x-axis points if it was Democratic. < 1305663259 293238 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1305663262 132068 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Daily Funny is your daily (or weekly, or monthly, depending on how often I update it) dose of humor. I post jokes, funny pictures, hilarious videos, and links to humorous things on the web here. Some of it you may have heard/seen before, but I'm sure you'll find something here to chuckle at. One other note: I try to keep all the humor on the Daily Funny family friendly - no dirty jokes here." < 1305663264 271594 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think it is, C# doesn't use "sub" as a keyword like that < 1305663269 21381 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too scared to click. < 1305663270 450337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may be VB.NET < 1305663274 476098 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, okay you know what, learning dwarffortress is easier :P < 1305663283 895028 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :top two titles: "Converting the Heathen Bear" "Biblical History of the Internet" < 1305663284 106303 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, this stuff is pretty nonsense < 1305663290 51170 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no it's not < 1305663299 254157 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ordinary proposals let you vote on them multiple times < 1305663302 999573 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Democratic proposals didn't < 1305663306 973248 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :points used to be a complex number < 1305663313 812758 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and CAN is RFC-jargon imported by Agora < 1305663340 965637 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes the RFC stuff I know < 1305663368 293629 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, actually it is MUST/SHOULD/MAY (plus inverses), I don't seem to remember any CAN < 1305663382 465056 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: we also have SHALL < 1305663390 470442 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: remember when we told everyone that relying on bobthj's site was a terrible idea? < 1305663392 292488 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good times, good times < 1305663401 406775 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, so you use SHALL/?/CAN? < 1305663410 362820 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, when the entire history of the PBA turned out to be wrong every several weeks because of bugs in my script? < 1305663411 971689 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good times, good times < 1305663417 269427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: counterargument: if we were still using it, BobTHJ might have made it work < 1305663425 623627 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did it ever truly work? < 1305663432 277143 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I wasn't saying that because it's down < 1305663463 179573 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://agora.qoid.us/current_flr.html#rule-2152 < 1305663475 690752 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, why were points complex? They should be quaternions < 1305663488 67625 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't any more < 1305663491 475497 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they used to be < 1305663510 158921 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I went to effort finding that link, click it :P < 1305663513 273944 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, what are they now? Vectors? < 1305663517 52482 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: integers < 1305663518 100177 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, and I did < 1305663520 39063 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, naturals, I think < 1305663521 716093 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, boring < 1305663525 632792 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to RFC2119, there's {MUST,REQUIRED,SHALL}, {MUST NOT,SHALL NOT}, {SHOULD,RECOMMENDED}, {SHOULD NOT,NOT RECOMMENDED} and {MAY,OPTIONAL}, where the grouped things mean the same. < 1305663540 275488 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no it isn't, you can have a "DEPRECATED action that you MAY but CANNOT do" < 1305663550 830386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't get why everyone found the AAA so complex, anyway; it's quite simple by nomic standards < 1305663552 636711 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that, you should feel bad about doing it, and doing it violates no rules, but you simply can't < 1305663553 125488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and quite grindy, too < 1305663562 22843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet many people didn't put in the effort to read it < 1305663567 599366 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I concluded it was trivial since aaa.py was only about thirty lines < 1305663599 16704 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: no it isn't, you can have a "DEPRECATED action that you MAY but CANNOT do" <-- err < 1305663602 671489 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I meant the score < 1305663605 16790 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1305663615 179485 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well we recently went on an appeal spree after the entire game imploded. < 1305663620 673635 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, anyway how can you have "DEPRECATED action that you MAY but CANNOT do" < 1305663638 291863 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(after ais523 deregistered in a huff because he had to read the Vladivostok Telephone Directory lest he violate the rules) < 1305663646 385965 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: simple < 1305663653 537272 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: read the rule < 1305663657 274928 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that none of them contradict < 1305663674 596691 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : (after ais523 deregistered in a huff because he had to read the Vladivostok Telephone Directory lest he violate the rules) <--- .... < 1305663694 891177 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: well we recently went on an appeal spree after the entire game imploded. <-- it imploded? < 1305663696 250866 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's like... say if you, in the next three seconds, called my mother fat to her face < 1305663703 291389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not illegal to do that, but it's socially discouraged < 1305663710 938656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet it's impossible, because you don't live within three seconds of my mother < 1305663718 708803 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah... < 1305663724 44680 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, interesting example < 1305663728 130225 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (after ais523 deregistered in a huff because he had to read the Vladivostok Telephone Directory lest he violate the rules) <--- .... < 1305663728 212268 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is she fat? < 1305663730 530236 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the ...? < 1305663731 530977 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no < 1305663737 576580 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, the weirdness :P < 1305663742 494286 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Vorpal: it's like... say if you, in the next three seconds, called my mother fat to her face it's not illegal to do that, but it's socially discouraged and yet it's impossible, because you don't live within three seconds of my mother ais523, ah... ais523, interesting example ais523, is she fat? < 1305663742 747089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: actually it was a .... < 1305663744 217206 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​427) Vorpal: it's like... say if you, in the next three seconds, called my mother fat to her face it's not illegal to do that, but it's socially discouraged and yet it's impossible, because you don't live within three seconds of my mother ais523, ah... ais523, interesting example < 1305663752 273572 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it was a ..., that formed an entire sentence by itself < 1305663753 707417 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh HackEgo < 1305663757 168838 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote ​427 < 1305663759 56856 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1305663760 235680 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess it's too long :( < 1305663768 671018 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I only asked because he mentioned it < 1305663777 186272 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you could remove the repeated bits < 1305663819 234037 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or replace with <> and assume everyone else assumes it automatically uses the previous nick. < 1305663859 910632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is that a Perlism? < 1305663871 668660 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 427 < 1305663872 525942 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​427) Vorpal: it's like... say if you, in the next three seconds, called my mother fat to her face it's not illegal to do that, but it's socially discouraged and yet it's impossible, because you don't live within three seconds of my mother ais523, ah... ais523, interesting example < 1305663880 944044 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you failed to remove it < 1305663895 350872 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It might be slightly Perlish, since Perl does have the default filehandle <> thing. < 1305663918 990918 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you made me think of short-tags in html instead of perl < 1305663927 606417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I was thinking more of // for repeat last regex < 1305663938 525329 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: delquote is broken < 1305663942 158082 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we all thought of different things < 1305663959 235233 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run find . -iname '*quotes*' < 1305663960 238748 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1305663965 285937 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run find . -iname '*quote*' < 1305663966 202059 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1305663968 797681 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail < 1305663979 634966 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I would sed the db if I knew where it was < 1305663989 200197 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1305663990 58278 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1305664005 511277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just revert to before the quote was added? < 1305664010 682390 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that < 1305664025 102408 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls quote < 1305664026 33214 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls quotes < 1305664027 263960 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1305664027 486307 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_ can do that < 1305664027 820148 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​quotes < 1305664035 591669 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1305664237 208934 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 427 < 1305664238 250937 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1305664241 54697 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sed'd.) < 1305664270 203370 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Wanna figure out why delquote is broken? :P < 1305664308 262504 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but someone might make a `unquote command that does "sed -ie '$d' quotes", that might be useful for "okay, forget the last one" sort of operations. < 1305664317 983674 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url bin/delquote < 1305664319 561819 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/delquote < 1305664320 522246 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But but but it's only a few lines. < 1305664333 307206 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That unquote thing is a good idea, but it still bugs me that delquote is broken; it worked just recently. < 1305664335 257859 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew, perl mode underlines arrays and hashes. < 1305664342 705402 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: use cperl-mode < 1305664352 162831 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is this achieved... < 1305664356 163608 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :M-x cperl-mode < 1305664364 82982 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make it default for .pl files in your ~/.emacs, but I'm too lazy to remember how. < 1305664396 741219 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, the background color is better than the underline I guess. < 1305664407 340334 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it just a different theme or is it completely different? < 1305664416 977921 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very different. < 1305664420 47584 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :a mode would be completely different < 1305664428 425778 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's different in that perl-mode sucks and cperl-mode doesn't. < 1305664429 535827 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl-in-Emacs was a topic not many days ago; both perl-mode and cperl-mode have their own shortcomings. < 1305664431 637493 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTH. < 1305664447 809116 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well a perfect perl mode is impossible :) < 1305664458 445459 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in general Perl is a difficult language to accomodate. < 1305664471 707449 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, in general it can't be done < 1305664474 640699 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, TC < 1305664474 722891 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...because it's awesome. < 1305664488 152830 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, perl has TC parsing < 1305664501 327669 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl is a difficult language to accommodate and stomach. < 1305664515 425515 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and most syntax highlighting uses things like regex. < 1305664523 442210 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I disagree. I think Perl is a wonderful language. < 1305664534 707956 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a wonderful, terrible language :) < 1305664540 677774 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not perfect, no. < 1305664542 999765 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't hate it for stupid reasons like "it's line noise".) < 1305664552 447792 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually I find it kind of adorable, somehow.) < 1305664552 830486 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I didn't think so. < 1305664577 694730 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised that it exists really. It is fairly atypical. < 1305664578 863994 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally think it has more syntax than I like < 1305664581 763362 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-- like an incontinent kitten. Endearing, but you don't want it on top of you." < 1305664594 466235 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell has a bit too much syntax as well, but is otherwise awesome < 1305664605 380315 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell? too much syntax? nonsense. < 1305664620 372052 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you a Lisp programmer? < 1305664631 306446 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, I think lisp is about the right amount of syntax yes, though a bit more than lisp is fine < 1305664675 525193 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell has very little syntax really. < 1305664680 598318 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you count things like "class x where ..." < 1305664689 342610 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of it is operators, which are not really "part of the syntax". < 1305664695 974036 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I actually think of Haskell as having fairly sparse syntax. < 1305664724 998490 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :man... these colors hurt my eyes a little bit. < 1305664725 645629 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, indeed, the mass of operators while not syntax is a problem. Remembering all is difficult. Function names may be better for stuff that is less common < 1305664743 837999 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1305664744 101082 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Names /are/ used for less common operations. < 1305664748 842673 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :alphabetical ones < 1305664753 789518 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You just don't know what's common, because you're not a Haskell programmer. < 1305664754 58347 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well even more so than currently < 1305664758 634771 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the arrow, applicative, ... operations are common. < 1305664765 798360 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, indeed. < 1305664772 37754 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With alphabetical names, they would be much less useful as far as concision goes. < 1305664776 947431 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just highlight @ and % variables the same way as $... I mean, they already have sigils, that's enough to distinguish them. < 1305664782 444887 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Concision makes things more readable because you don't have to skip over irrelveant names.) < 1305664784 450065 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I used <* and so on a few times. That is useful indeed < 1305664796 277768 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, then you're just imagining this huge mass of operators :) < 1305664818 468211 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl has a huge mass of operators, and they're also awesome. < 1305664821 20853 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Hey, you know why your esolangs in Racket suck? < 1305664825 330420 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I meant like the "get element in Data.Array" < 1305664828 604378 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Perl [six] has even nicer operators < 1305664830 176213 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, why? < 1305664839 2342 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe less operators than Haskell though, simply because Haskell has a limitless number. < 1305664841 593588 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION failed to notice the "your" < 1305664844 339900 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because they aren't Racket #langs. < 1305664852 373329 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Uhh. < 1305664854 673255 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's not common? < 1305664861 847750 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Let's see. C: x[n]. Fortran: some syntax I don't know. < 1305664863 932447 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALGOL: yep. < 1305664872 860585 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every language ever: yes, getting an element out of an array is common enough to warrant an operator. < 1305664882 163787 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, the operator is an exclamation mark, right? < 1305664885 220770 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, sure, but in a functional language arrays aren't that central < 1305664890 943279 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the standard "element of container" operation. < 1305664894 60029 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Map uses it too, etc. < 1305664897 610664 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, isn't it <: or something? < 1305664904 193215 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh forgot what it was < 1305664909 146883 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Do you mean Data.Seq? < 1305664916 275164 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Sequence, sorry. < 1305664916 670986 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh that one had :< I think < 1305664931 483073 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< is the constructor of ViewL. < 1305664936 939395 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like that so pattern matching is prettier. < 1305664941 771283 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl: @{$href->{$aref->[1]}}[3] < 1305664943 250852 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :case viewl q of < 1305664943 559232 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmm < 1305664944 825970 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: ARRAY(INDEX) for Fortran. < 1305664944 923817 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, and come on, in lisp you don't have special syntax to get elements out of arrays < 1305664945 562766 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric : EmptyL -> ... < 1305664947 778637 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric : a :< b -> ... < 1305664959 312730 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You do in some Lisps. < 1305664972 474993 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, Not True Lips then, but okay < 1305664980 159447 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp doesn't count as a normal programming language, by the way. < 1305664992 783765 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But really, that's a stupid argument, because by that standard you're only allowed to have syntax for: < 1305664995 801896 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Function application < 1305664997 435202 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Macros, and < 1305665001 263496 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :- OH YEAH, tons of special forms. < 1305665005 390618 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp has tons of syntax. < 1305665013 162447 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just don't see it because it's all made out of parens and names. < 1305665014 35383 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I think lisp should cut down on special forms yes < 1305665018 104035 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And macros? < 1305665020 403069 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a particular reason in @{$href->{$aref->[1]}}[3] to not go to the final end with arrow notation, as in $href->{$aref->[1]}->[3]? < 1305665023 742350 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically... you want... sexp lambda calculus? < 1305665035 282480 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congratulations you have invented the least useful language ever. < 1305665044 53013 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Syntax is notation; not wanting notation is insanity. < 1305665046 609021 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, macros let you define your own syntax yes < 1305665053 267125 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the standard library shouldn't have it < 1305665062 520600 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1305665067 595264 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I said < 1305665068 450923 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1305665073 546595 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I'm stepping out of this conversation because it's stupid. < 1305665087 457470 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: er, I guess not. < 1305665106 556906 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the purposes of obfuscation, maybe. < 1305665132 247651 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Believe you me, Haskell has very, very sparse syntax. It just doesn't seem like it to you. < 1305665166 384233 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know all those operators you see? That's not really syntax. A Haskell operator is a function that's called infix. That's all. < 1305665191 139263 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, I know that < 1305665195 880729 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: a better one would have used something like push. push @{href->{$aref->[1]}}, $data < 1305665218 325736 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless push can work on refs, I haven't tried that actually. < 1305665227 304209 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You seem to act like it isn't. :P < 1305665247 612397 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh what do you know, push can take a scalar reference < 1305665257 748855 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to clean up some code I've been working on. < 1305665310 761299 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: could you give me a rundown of what makes cperl-mode awesome and perl-mode not? < 1305665333 106604 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it can't; at least not in my Perl. perl -e '$a = [1, 2]; push $a, 3;' => Type of arg 1 to push must be array (not scalar dereference) at -e line 1, near "3;" < 1305665345 377471 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Nope, ask someone else :P < 1305665371 36663 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: haha, okay. Oh, and it's (defalias 'perl-mode 'cperl-mode) < 1305665413 958052 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Oh, well, that's one way to do it. < 1305665417 917716 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That stops you using regular perl-mode though. < 1305665421 815374 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cperl-mode is awesome because it handles the fun(< < 1305665791 845251 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*discovered < 1305665904 652304 :TOGoS!~Stevens@h69-128-42-2.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1305665912 174726 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"C-x b RET" is often enough if you just want to flip between two buffers repeatedly. (I'm not sure if there's a key that optimizes that particular operation even further.) < 1305665991 50348 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I didn't know of it. I thought it might be germane for this channel :D < 1305666065 843762 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :## Latest News ## 12 October 2000 < 1305666067 835272 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1305666081 206313 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: It's an old research language, what do you expect :) < 1305666094 791909 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it'll compile... < 1305666124 927650 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :cperl-modes highlighting is kind of inconsistent feeling. < 1305666134 463320 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it highlights $info in my $info; < 1305666140 151259 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not in $info->get_tag() < 1305666302 806133 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's because it has one face for variable definitions, one for arrays and one for hashes; but none for plain scalar variables. In "my $info" it's not $info in particular it's highlighting, it's the variable definition it is. < 1305666383 331580 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :c-x c-b is a good. also c-x b < 1305666415 866084 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...lame, having the scalar variables highlighted would make things easier to read. < 1305666434 425494 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric : why not just highlight @ and % variables the same way as $... I mean, they already have sigils, that's enough to distinguish them. < 1305666583 88525 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: yes, the sigil is enough to distinguish between different types of variables, but it doesn't help with large lines of code consisting of only scalars.. everything is the same color. < 1305666592 181821 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: There seems to be a configuration key for it: setting cperl-highlight-variables-indiscriminately to non-nil will (probably) cause it to highlight all $foos with the variable-definition face. < 1305666606 358522 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1305666608 269347 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent. < 1305666669 264486 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I haven't tried; just searched for "scalar" in some old cperl-mode.el; it's one of the defcustom'd vars; I guess you could look through the cperl group in the customization browser for further configuration options in general.) < 1305666697 421263 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does you reload .emacs without a restart? < 1305666744 374431 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: try C-x C-e on the end of a line you want to execute < 1305666752 95973 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodness. < 1305666757 165842 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's more useful than rerunning the whole file, especially as it might not be idempotent < 1305666777 160570 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: or in lisp interaction mode, C-j < 1305666780 808649 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual maximum bandwidth of cable Internet is 6762.4 Mbit/s in the US. < 1305666807 292287 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: who has .emacs in lisp interaction mode? < 1305666828 608700 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, just over the cable network you can get nearly 7 gigabits per second. < 1305666832 232205 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...definitely not someone who just started picking up emacs today. < 1305666854 533614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: oh, I restart Emacs to check changes for .emacs < 1305666861 839840 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i take it you haven't done anything with the [asterisk]scratch[asterisk] buffer yet >:) < 1305666871 28296 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to it otherwise being easy to introduce bugs where .emacs runs things in the wrong order < 1305666878 278650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that tends not to show up if you test it "online" < 1305666882 940191 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: nope.. < 1305666884 442243 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers setting the text colour for [asterisk]scratch[asterisk] to white < 1305666900 348155 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only they didn't keep that nasty "TV" on the line. < 1305667008 974178 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: nah that didn't variable didn't seem to change anything. I'll check out customize < 1305667033 530149 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This rate could be doubled by using better modulation. < 1305667099 227725 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: How did you set it? < 1305667107 990027 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You realise you have to re-enable the mode for it to take effect. < 1305667138 509537 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I re-enable it. However, I just read the description of that variable and it says that it won't take any effect after the first time cperl-mode is loaded. < 1305667147 900883 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... restart time. < 1305667247 33802 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :awww yeah, scalar variables are now a dull pasty brown. < 1305667284 942717 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nailed it < 1305667329 148263 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(Raising e to an imaginary power produces rotation around a unit circle in the complex plane, according to Euler’s formula. How? Magic, as far as I can tell. But apparently it’s true)." < 1305667337 810669 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programmers: dur maths is hard. < 1305667383 545870 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hey not all programmers are stupid < 1305667390 23195 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :, said Vorpal. < 1305667394 700817 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For comparison, the maximum rate of DSL is about 200 Mbit/s. An order of magnitude smaller than cable, if the cable companies didn't hate the Internet. < 1305667394 865922 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a good example of something unintuitive to the uninitiated < 1305667408 508797 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, come on, I understand why Euler's formulas work :P < 1305667424 631534 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I decided that Fourier must have been speaking to aliens, because if you gave me all the time and paper in the world, I would not have been able to come up with that." < 1305667428 152354 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly, because you are stupid. < 1305667430 860450 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR < 1305667435 482343 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly, because Fourier was a genius. < 1305667438 180329 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PERHAPS < 1305667439 388198 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IS BOTH < 1305667457 203136 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK Google tells me Fourier didn't actually write the transform. < 1305667461 684437 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would love to see a cable company turn off its cable TV service and start offering gigabit Internet. < 1305667462 32517 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously it was space aliens. < 1305667463 596103 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spaliens. < 1305667473 180641 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homo spaliens. < 1305667474 895422 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Possibly, because Fourier was a genius. < 1305667499 466310 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't Fourier set the stage for the huge flurry over the basis of calculus? < 1305667519 351741 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your mother is calculus. < 1305667532 373755 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, sounds like a genius right there then < 1305667633 112603 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey, one day in and Emacs isn't too bad. Perhaps in a few more days it'll even be not a pain in the ass to do anything. < 1305667644 510778 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-15-174.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1305667645 316315 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, try M-x doctor. < 1305667693 990856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, try M-x set-input RET TeX RET < 1305667704 500989 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...ahahaha. awesome. < 1305667707 398448 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, then write some tex notation into the buffer < 1305667708 995485 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1305667710 368459 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :\vee < 1305667712 403146 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1305667723 753296 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, it will convert a subset to unicode < 1305667845 87251 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am too busy being psychoanalyzed < 1305667851 511814 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: M-x psychoanalyze-pinhead < 1305667857 680722 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Press a character to stop it.) < 1305667858 139192 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Then M-x tetris. < 1305667888 538784 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :doctor: "You seem terrified by sex." < 1305667889 786967 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Works in both terminals and graphically[exclamation mark]) < 1305667903 867631 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then M-x hanoi. < 1305667923 384179 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, when will you get your keyboard fixed? < 1305667938 603021 :cheater79!~cheater23@ip-80-226-16-83.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1305668028 613579 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]laptop < 1305668086 727072 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yow! Legally-imposed CULTURE-reduction is CABBAGE-BRAINED! < 1305668087 582667 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, psychoanalyze-pinhead kind of sucks with the stripped-down yow. < 1305668220 634142 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: hanoi seems to have stopped working when I gave it a numeric argument of < 1305668223 707723 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 < 1305668226 52581 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1305668228 824888 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: tried tetris yet? < 1305668235 302194 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I tried it earlier. < 1305668236 425642 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even has fancy pieces in the graphical version < 1305668851 877114 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :You: Does it please you to believe that it pleases me to believe that? < 1305668853 332910 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eliza: Oh, i to believe that it pleases you to believe that. < 1305669011 545183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can anyone here think of a word meaning "susceptibility to invasion by zombies"? < 1305669031 556628 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fleshy < 1305669042 865409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that might work < 1305669072 403279 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wat < 1305669080 227652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: BlogNomic < 1305669096 970109 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd tell you, but you'd have to make me a developer. < 1305669108 610339 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although a trial developer would be OK too < 1305669119 786036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: haha < 1305669307 733124 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Headscratchers/Math < 1305669319 109929 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematics has tropes now? < 1305669319 987242 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who wants to play "how long until the first facepalm!" < 1305669328 174245 :ajf!~ajf@78.129.159.151 NICK :ajf|offline < 1305669332 230259 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, Headscratchers = Just Bugs Me. < 1305669359 829989 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1305669361 889751 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why do people in an Honors Advanced Precalc class still need to ask "When are we going to use this in life?" If you've opted to take the class, and gotten to this level, you should know that unless you get a career in pure math or teaching, you're not going to use it. Just deal with it." < 1305669364 550280 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CALCULUS: Not useful < 1305669375 452511 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Math is used in everything. Well, almost everything. Economists use some very advanced math including fields like differential equations, probability and statistics, dynamical systems, and even some more pure stuff like linear algebra and analysis." < 1305669390 907623 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it a bad sign that I don't really think of many of those things as "advanced"? < 1305669432 678908 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having finished linear algebra and differential equations, I'd agree with you that they're not too advanced... < 1305669468 854121 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Diff. eq just follows naturally from calculus, and linear algebra reasonably could be part of the standard secondary educational curriculum. < 1305669481 443853 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of skipped over both because numbers are kind of ugly. < 1305669500 648473 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an opinion you share with oklofok < 1305669511 244838 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why is it impossible to divide by 0? < 1305669511 526036 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, here's about 20 pages of natter discussing the problem and why this is such a common question." < 1305669516 139385 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank god, that was removed. < 1305669538 636531 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/6AK4DJbU is the pages of arguments. < 1305669543 228744 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the implication in those questions that it's, like, physically impossible. < 1305669549 847398 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What if I try REALLY HARD?" < 1305669569 384024 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Linear algebra would be a much better course without numbers. < 1305669584 689654 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's possible to ''multiply'' by 0 (with the result always being 0), and dividing is the exact opposite of multiplication, so why isn't any number/0 always 0?" < 1305669587 226032 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1305669602 341467 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"However, it's impossible to break up the group represented by the dividend into 0 groups, so any number divided by 0 will always be undefined." < 1305669606 657199 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just answered your own question. < 1305669611 980560 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"However, multiplying by 0 means you're combining 0 groups of a specific number of items...which is equally impossible." < 1305669612 690279 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1305669618 416776 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm crying irl < 1305669626 116374 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Desperately require comfort < 1305669633 984488 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is none. < 1305669642 48096 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that division by 0 was left undefined simply because defining it makes you lose a number of algebraic properties that are rather nice. < 1305669652 182228 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why is algebra and algorithms considered or anything involving advanced mathematics required classes if the career I want is to become a cartoonist?" < 1305669658 37845 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best part: this person is *right*. < 1305669680 228089 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way mathematics is taught completely removes all the benefits of learning it. < 1305669689 688108 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, I know who wrote that. < 1305669694 674773 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't, but, I do.) < 1305669712 119644 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are going to have to explain that. < 1305669729 485417 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeahno. < 1305669730 209985 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Calculation should be considered completely seperate from math. < 1305669739 885216 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: There is a perfectly good name for it: arithmetic. < 1305669779 992095 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, pikhq_, except no, it's deeper than that. < 1305669781 181104 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1305669787 685163 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't objecting. < 1305669790 727901 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Memorising rules for differentiation is just as useless. < 1305669792 26021 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was simply responding to pikhq_. < 1305669796 535594 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not more so. < 1305669797 251405 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: "Arithmetic" kinda gives you the notion that it's merely addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, and perhaps some square roots. < 1305669808 934691 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least arithmetic can actually be used without understanding. < 1305669834 633619 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're actually going to *need* calculus, you probably need to understand the underlying reasoning as well. < 1305669961 434277 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Quite true. Memorisation of things is pretty pointless. < 1305669982 628449 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say this as someone who has an extremely shaky understanding of some basic calculus. < 1305670000 231783 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although this is because I was learning it at the same time as GCSE for an exam later in the year. < 1305670005 678628 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I was being taught by a blind man. < 1305670014 262868 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Literally the *only* time I will ever have a need to memorise, say, derivatives or integrals, is for a test. < 1305670019 755851 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok what do you want to eat? < 1305670019 837510 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :blind people can't do calculus < 1305670019 948478 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :You. < 1305670021 418821 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok I am 1.87 and I am 32 years old and I am married. < 1305670027 832844 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I wonder if cleverbot will cyber with me. < 1305670037 399114 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every other time, *I can look shit up*. < 1305670042 3369 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Seriously, guys. Who the hell came up with the term 'integer'? What is wrong with calling them 'numbers'? If they're supposed to be called 'integers', why the hell do we even use the word 'number' anyway? Let's be honest here: when I first learned the term 'integer' back in middle school, that was the moment when mathematics Jumped The Shark for me. I've never trusted it since." < 1305670049 182198 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ahoifahhaahahahahaahaha < 1305670049 903084 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This person, OTOH, is an annoying idiot. < 1305670052 343849 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an obvious joke < 1305670059 567307 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it is? < 1305670061 583240 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's actually relevant to what I'm doing a lot, then I'll probably memorise it anyways. < 1305670076 372067 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "mathematics Jumped the Shark for me. I've never trusted it since." marks it as a joke. < 1305670097 815069 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I mean, it is /possible/ someone that idiotic exists, but would they really be able to form decent sentences and make references to tropes? < 1305670111 67627 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, see: half the Homestuck fandom. < 1305670111 921864 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ "Let's be honest here" < 1305670116 60999 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: they can't form sentences. < 1305670134 763954 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I am sorry, let us peruse homestucksecrets. < 1305670135 252939 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidence to the contrary NOTWITHSTANDING. < 1305670145 454465 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god don't. The last time you did that ten thousand infants died. < 1305670155 5718 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :catholicsecrets! < 1305670168 548592 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-136-53.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1305670204 60560 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I thought Paul was the main character." < 1305670244 379520 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Arguably, he is. His writings are the very first evidence we have of anything resembling Christianity. < 1305670267 395461 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, SHH YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND < 1305670297 279929 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it amusing that Paul never once quotes Jesus. < 1305670316 816386 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :First, read Homestuck. Then, read homestucksecrets. Go into fit of manic depression. Cure with kittens. Then, you shall understand truly that reference. < 1305670319 49191 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, indeed, gives any suggestion that Jesus was a flesh-and-blood human being. < 1305670451 12705 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternately, start reading Homestuck, then stop halfway through, so I can control both you and elliott_ with the threat of spoilers. < 1305670472 665865 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You realise I'm up-to-date. < 1305670500 949830 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT ON FINE STRUCTURE < 1305670523 148563 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :READ IT READ IT READ IT < 1305670525 375843 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-136-53.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1305670525 977531 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1305670542 327470 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1305670562 227764 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1305670581 59159 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MITCH KILLS SEPH WITH ROSEBUD < 1305670597 512872 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEN IT TURNS OUT THAT MIKE IS HIS FATHER < 1305670641 619992 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO WAS DEAD THE WHOLE TIME < 1305670679 273169 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE IMPRISONING GOD < 1305670681 508175 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS ACTUALLY < 1305670695 264888 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait does elliott_ know about that < 1305670698 995765 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1305670700 141794 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops. < 1305670705 771962 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/clear < 1305670726 895936 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If "the imprisoning god" gives away a shitload, I'm going to tear your fucking head off and punch it into a sausage-making machine. < 1305670740 368903 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'll keep a backup of your mind first so I can torture it for the rest of eternity. < 1305670744 542370 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :YW < 1305670761 514080 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't give away much. < 1305670786 965579 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this, kids, is why Phantom_Hoover is hereby banned from joking about spoilers. < 1305670799 810390 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...isn't that basically the background of I Have No Mouth But I Must Scream. or something. < 1305670801 437247 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST READ THE DAMN THINGG < 1305670803 273544 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*THING < 1305670822 728558 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :() < 1305670835 903754 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Too busy keeping friend on his toes by re-reading Homestuck in sync with him. < 1305670846 754645 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is so unreliable you have no idea. < 1305670860 661398 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homefine Stuckture. < 1305670868 483922 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ARE YOU GOING TO SPOIL EVERY MAJOR WORK OF FICTION FROM THE PAST CENTURY FOR ME ;D < 1305670883 646774 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: WELL WE WERE ON A RUN HERE... < 1305670887 294562 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be a greasemonkey extension that hides all sections named "Plot" or "Plot summary" from Wikipedia articles. < 1305670896 804897 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Especially since they tend to be badly-written anyway.) < 1305670906 73789 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, ZAKALWE IS [DATA EXPUNGED] < 1305670915 204267 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, you're never going to read those books. < 1305670933 787600 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am. < 1305670936 593573 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I absolutely am. < 1305670944 925039 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Culture is one of the few things penetrating the depth of my Fiction Backlog. < 1305671011 537767 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WILL NOW SCPSPOIL ALL OF THEM < 1305671013 331289 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN ORDER < 1305671037 937126 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE CULTURE WINS THE IDIRAN WAR < 1305671049 961211 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that wasn't redacted, because it's obvious. < 1305671109 179746 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK stop. < 1305671110 113890 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just stop. < 1305671111 949822 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't trust you. < 1305671132 712292 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it would be hilarious if they didn't and all the remaining books were just "Nothing happened because the Culture no longer exists." repeated ad infinitum < 1305671203 484810 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it wasn't a war to the death or anything. < 1305671239 894640 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was more "I want to play with the lesser species!" "No me!" "No me!" < 1305671295 872356 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shut up before you spoil something. < 1305671317 512588 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to obtain every Culture book in hardback before I read them, dammit, and that will be a pain. < 1305671339 3854 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm plot idea for a sci-fi novel: the protagonist is from a fanatical religious world that recently won a war against a goody-two-shoes liberal one. the great reveal near the end is that they actually lost but the liberals put them in a virtual simulation where they think they won instead < 1305671340 114819 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The war is barely relevant to the Culture series anyway. < 1305671358 702673 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well thanks for spoiling it. < 1305671373 760234 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :<- now spoiling books before they are written < 1305671390 305588 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO sPOLLING < 1305671399 272894 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That's really more of a novella type idea, isn't it < 1305671403 919405 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it's not that much of a conclusion < 1305671415 456740 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And then they won except, ha ha, not really. The end." < 1305671435 772183 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1305671437 672351 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1305671444 950626 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never written either < 1305671464 442569 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1305671515 811742 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how popular are books intentionally spoiled from the beginning < 1305671517 905370 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could write it < 1305671519 676058 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they even exist < 1305671532 809367 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: "John dies in the end" has sold pretty well < 1305671540 105659 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]at the < 1305671547 199977 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My assumption with that book is that John dying is not, in fact, the real climax :) < 1305671547 885158 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, see: every classic ever. < 1305671550 176058 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :same diff < 1305671557 654211 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Two star-crossed lovers take their lives because they're idiots. < 1305671562 276888 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now let me tell you how in excruciating detial. < 1305671564 575541 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]detail. < 1305671567 586197 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[POINTLESS PLAY OMITTED] < 1305671572 701069 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: my assumption is that it's litfic, and therefore has no real climax < 1305671572 988736 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I remember that one < 1305671586 58780 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone else was an idiot too right < 1305671598 349765 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Is "comedic horror" generally considered to be able to be literary fiction? < 1305671599 291770 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :People seem not to realise that Melville didn't actually write Moby Dick with the assumption that the reader would know how it ends. < 1305671607 812226 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not making a judgement on whether it should be, but it seems rather out of the scope.) < 1305671616 934302 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :anytthing can be litfic < 1305671626 10620 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i knew a girl writing a litfic about pokemon < 1305671631 325144 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Yes, apart from the Priest guy, who as I recall told everyone else they were stupid. < 1305671638 337809 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and there's that one where everyone commits suicide because someone didn't get a burial, right? < 1305671652 273472 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but did he write it with the assumption that anyone would read all of it through? < 1305671652 652654 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-190-151.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1305671661 105025 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: But comedic litfic has two conflicting aims -- to make you laugh and to, uhh, be literary fiction. < 1305671681 765328 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: i never said it was easy < 1305671683 506084 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should read House of Leaves sometime. also, Infinite Jest. Prediction: I will never do either. < 1305671696 870075 :Tritonio!~TrT@150.140.233.232 JOIN :#esoteric < 1305671840 938241 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This Troper's boyfriend has been incredulously good at math since he was in elementary school," < 1305671846 142441 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You keep using that word. < 1305671854 297276 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not think it means what you think it means. < 1305671867 335115 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1305671945 386691 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets bored, reads Simple English Wikipedia. < 1305671997 920513 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1305672003 305890 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gets bored" is probably the wrong phrase; it's more that I keep trying to do a depth-first traversal of the internet. < 1305672019 866545 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banach%E2%80%93Tarski_paradox < 1305672027 585682 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mathematics has shown that..." < 1305672035 642513 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait no < 1305672038 399299 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mathematics has shown that any object can be reassembled into any other object." < 1305672058 601408 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : This short article about science can be made longer. You can help Wikipedia by adding to it. < 1305672129 130510 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how everything is simpler < 1305672186 302957 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not quite sure about some of these things < 1305672193 387400 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Change" instead of "Edit", really? < 1305672199 298869 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Give" instead of "Donate" < 1305672225 218091 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They basically took every Latinate word and replaced it with an Anglo-Saxon one. < 1305672244 946430 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes it simpler < 1305672248 735060 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnet < 1305672254 603498 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A magnet is a very special metal." < 1305672268 468380 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the way they simplify to the point of wrongness. < 1305672291 836664 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :RANDOM THOUGHT: Bismuth as shielding around a hard drive. < 1305672307 292344 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's not that special. < 1305672317 812976 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A VERY special metal. < 1305672325 186712 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems < 1305672332 130061 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry guys we are now discussing bismuth. < 1305672332 216008 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: how uncleftish < 1305672365 105063 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find simple english harder to follow than regular english < 1305672408 839437 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bismuth(V)_oxide < 1305672413 278234 :TOGoS!~Stevens@h69-128-42-2.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net PART :#esoteric < 1305672417 195053 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want complex english wikipedia < 1305672421 707771 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you even decide to write that article. < 1305672442 155353 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: bismuth isn't funny < 1305672460 404766 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, bismuth(V) oxide is. < 1305672466 760527 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it is serious bismuth < 1305672476 572813 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats monqy. < 1305672499 775920 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: bismuth is NOT funny < 1305672537 81633 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felisburgo < 1305672558 612280 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :straight and to the point < 1305672570 833662 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Vernon,_Illinois < 1305672573 496092 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better < 1305672594 866484 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hitting "Show any page" is bringing up a lot of these < 1305672627 169875 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that how it says random < 1305672629 593780 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha it is omg < 1305672652 850400 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counting < 1305672655 914682 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Counting is something people do to find out how many things there are of any kind. < 1305672662 976428 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's abstract to the point of unreadability < 1305672677 788398 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :counting is something people do to count stuff < 1305672694 57574 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blast_off < 1305672699 128979 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The person counting usually starts with the number one, and gives this number to the first thing. The next thing is given the number two. Then, the next thing is given the number three. If there is another thing, it gets the number four. More things get more numbers. Each thing gets its own number in this way. The last number given to the last thing counted shows how many things there are. < 1305672711 668132 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :words of wisdo m < 1305672733 143318 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm imagining a guy handing out numbers to little cute kittens or something < 1305672735 39446 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the things get a number < 1305672740 771577 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh jeez it has examples < 1305672747 877141 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are the letters A, Q, L, and S on a piece of paper. How many letters are there on the piece of paper? < 1305672750 873041 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tom gives numbers to the letters. The letter A gets the number 1. The letter Q gets the number 2. The letter L gets the number 3. The letter S gets the number 4. There are no more letters to count. There are 4 letters on the piece of paper. < 1305672752 534415 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guitar Hero: Metallica is a rhythm game that was made by Neversoft with other help from Activision. It is part of the Guitar Hero franchise. The game was released in North America on March 29, 2009 for the Xbox 360, PlayStation 3 and the Wii and was released on April 14, 2009 in North America for the PlayStation 2. In the game Guitar Hero: World Tour, there is a trailer for the game with the song "Master of Puppets" playing in the background. "It also s < 1305672752 762680 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ays Ride the Lightning 2009."[needs proof] < 1305672754 390963 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[needs proof] < 1305672764 379369 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a citation < 1305672775 426501 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The word art is used to describe some activities or creations of human beings that have importance to the human mind, regarding an attraction to the human senses. Therefore, art is made when a human expresses himself or herself. < 1305672778 639915 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"themselves" is too difficult < 1305672796 757690 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citation < 1305672829 171539 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scared to look up "sex" < 1305672834 558133 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be written for toddlers < 1305672841 430869 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll start "when a man and a women love each other very much" < 1305672848 32896 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "sit down son. < 1305672852 490193 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me tell you about the birds. < 1305672853 871725 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the bees." < 1305672856 246527 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sex is a type of reproduction common among living things. It always needs two individuals, usually of the same species. Sex is used by plants and animals, and also by fungi and various single-celled organisms. It works by combining genes from more than one source. < 1305672871 270061 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if genes don't combine it isn't sex? < 1305672883 94788 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat < 1305672883 293880 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am here first time i got this site good and i wish to express my thougts i am astonished to see the dual and tripple policies of world powers the superpowers as they claimed theirslves and i called so it called superpowers.all the are acting the world have no realistic approach of justification just to give a new trend to make and create a new joke that the world is in danger and all civilized nations are near to destroy by the elements called terrori < 1305672883 423453 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :st we have never seen them in real life just to see what the reallly want to show to us on their controlled media and make people fool in this way and get all their vested interst and make any nation their colony and use of power in their thought is sacred and any other person or a group use the power is called genoside terrorism atrocities etc. < 1305672885 301783 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--Talk:Main Page < 1305672887 511407 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Behaviour section. < 1305672894 787896 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEST IMAGE < 1305672898 994415 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh gross it has nudity and a picture of butterfly sex < 1305672900 14571 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The cat on the right is fed up with the cat on the left and this is a semi-serious warning." < 1305672907 319509 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: X-D < 1305672971 471783 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my god < 1305672975 611263 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kittens < 1305672977 347732 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is < 1305672978 708929 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so funny < 1305672993 599565 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"other images of dogs" < 1305672994 287163 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh goody < 1305672997 280542 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"5. Watch, delighted, as kitten sits down promptly and urinates. Do same for other kits. < 1305673006 298024 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ...X-D < 1305673009 292495 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :6. Repeat next time if they need it. They will not need a third time. Probably." < 1305673018 550725 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :KITTEN I HAVE WARNED YOU TWICE < 1305673023 305413 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE WILL NOT BE A THIRD TIME < 1305673029 469924 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby < 1305673030 96421 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PROBABLY < 1305673033 485664 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A baby is a very young human who is usually born after coming out of a woman. < 1305673038 380056 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mutters < 1305673042 586601 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually. < 1305673058 707716 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cabal is very, very poorly suited to builds where you don't *want* to install the program. < 1305673064 993499 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Never chastise a cat physically: if you do, the relationship will never be the same again." < 1305673067 258316 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: usually < 1305673075 212286 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: bahahahaoaihfjgoifdjh < 1305673077 93143 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A child is a month old, a baby until he or she is about three years old, and a preschooler between 3 years old and school. < 1305673087 388815 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"How old are you?" "School." < 1305673095 452411 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cats are acutely affected by domestic abuse. < 1305673104 897465 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://simple.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Baby&action=historysubmit&diff=1817847&oldid=1814967 < 1305673105 586908 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lady. < 1305673105 757292 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a cute < 1305673113 899858 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cuteness is a type of liking people have, such as toward children and babies. It mostly depends on their appearance. < 1305673116 460599 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knut, a young polar bear at the Berlin Zoo, has been talked about in the media as "cute".[1] < 1305673138 683377 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abortion < 1305673138 764930 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < 1305673138 910752 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Redirected from Miscarriage < 1305673152 491887 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1305673157 594497 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1305673158 274532 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1305673179 771792 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay it's defining abortion generally to include miscarriages < 1305673181 965257 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It can affect people, dogs, and cats.[1]" < 1305673198 817635 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Outside of this closely related group, it has not been observed. < 1305673202 619514 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polydactyly) < 1305673217 359115 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1305673223 100927 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knut_(polar_bear) < 1305673235 55176 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This article is more detailed than their articles on... everything. < 1305673248 456409 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reading about human sacrifice now < 1305673255 954690 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BONUS STUPID WIKIPEDIAS: http://sco.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1305673263 644188 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scots Wikipedia! < 1305673275 556537 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Her arrival interested people from all over the world, because many sources thought the two bears (although they were sexually immature) would soon be "dating".[34] < 1305673286 514233 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"dating" < 1305673290 933720 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1305673291 877906 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The non-English Anglo-Frisian languages deserve a Wikipedia, too. < 1305673299 673048 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Afore nou, cats citch moose an froot aboot fowk's hooses." < 1305673318 701834 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-136-53.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1305673333 926402 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot show my amusement there are English people I must show solidarity oh god I can't this is ridiculous. < 1305673336 67002 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A kinnen or rabbit (Oryctolagus cuniculus) is wee-er nor a maukin. The bouerie unner the grund whaur kinnens leeves is kent as a cuningar. A young kinnen is cried a leprone. < 1305673341 615148 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: See the page on "dating" though. The male bear was "dating" his penis into the female bear's vagina :P < 1305673345 293889 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wee-er nor a maukin < 1305673354 86110 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A maukin or hare, whiles kent as a donie; baud, bautie or pous(ie) an aw, haes lang lugs a can rin awfu fast. A young hare is cried a leprone. < 1305673354 318721 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric : * The broun hare (Lepus europaeus) < 1305673354 400513 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric : * The white hare or cuttie (Lepus timidus) < 1305673366 763863 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no sex page :( < 1305673369 984721 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there IS a homosexuality page < 1305673373 919200 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1305673374 339008 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god < 1305673376 925459 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Metallica discography. < 1305673378 88350 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIORITIES < 1305673381 308434 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's sex called in Scots Phantom_Hoover < 1305673382 363775 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homo♥iality < 1305673389 875539 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, how would I know? < 1305673399 888396 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're Scottish. < 1305673405 847618 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Scotch < 1305673411 599415 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't have a page on "sassenach". < 1305673412 727118 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cavalier o Hohenberg an his squire burned far crime o sodomy. < 1305673415 827976 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is ridiculous. < 1305673420 618383 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can they not have a page on that. < 1305673425 369959 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I FEEL DISCRIMINATED AGAINST < 1305673426 631571 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Scots is only common in the Highlands. < 1305673427 75827 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gaun by the Kinsey Scale, bisexuals can reenge fae bein a bittie homosexual tae beein a bittie heterosexual." < 1305673429 612720 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bittie homosexual < 1305673439 332996 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sco.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dance < 1305673440 262395 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT IMAGE < 1305673441 182869 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT CAPTION < 1305673442 353859 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SGHFOHFOGIHDOJOIDJHOGFH < 1305673453 310428 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ach, feelin' a bittie homosexual tadae! < 1305673460 311269 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Metallica (pronounced /mɛˈtælɨkə/) is an American hivy metal baund frae Los Angeles, California, formed in 1981. The baund wis foondit when an advertisement postit bi drummer Lars Ulrich in a local newspaper, wis respondit tae bi James Hetfield. Metallica's line up haes primarily consistit o Ulrich, rhythm guitarist an vocalist James Hetfield an lead guitarist Kirk Hammett, while goin through a number o bassists (Ron McGovney, Cliff Burton, Jason N < 1305673460 468447 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ewsted). The spot is currently held bi Robert Trujillo. The baund's oreeginal lead guitarist, afore Hammett, wis current Megadeth guitarist an lead vocalist Dave Mustaine. < 1305673462 182560 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HIVY METAL < 1305673463 582946 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HIVY METAL BAUND < 1305673464 109882 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh come on guys you could have tried. < 1305673465 163585 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HIVY METAL BAUND < 1305673467 53126 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HIVY METAL BAUND < 1305673469 50611 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HIVY METAL BAUND < 1305673471 48610 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HIVY METAL BAUND < 1305673489 686036 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As o December 2009, Metallica is the fowert best-sellin muisic airtist since the SoundScan era began trackin sales on Mey 25, 1991, sellin a total o 52,271,000 albums in the Unitit States alone." < 1305673491 374830 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNITIT STATES < 1305673491 997885 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNITIT STATES < 1305673492 326557 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNITIT STATES < 1305673493 66926 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNITIT STATES < 1305673496 514297 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Be glad Yola's dead, I guess. < 1305673497 184550 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gaun by the Kinsey Scale, bisexuals can reenge fae bein a bittie homosexual tae beein a bittie heterosexual." < 1305673503 422940 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Already pasted. < 1305673504 903695 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to try out the Wale page allevolie < 1305673517 592509 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sco.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitit_States < 1305673524 989082 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ingland's muckle maist ceety, Lunnon, is the caipital o the Unitit Kinrick an aw. < 1305673534 37240 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"George Washington wis the first presses." < 1305673537 270217 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sco.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Breetain < 1305673562 304976 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like Scots can't spell anything the normal way. < 1305673575 398787 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normal = modern English :P < 1305673584 284690 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sco.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland < 1305673591 603872 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the subtle jab at Ulster Scots. < 1305673605 98494 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Scots is a distinct language with less well-defined orthography than English. Sorry. :P < 1305673606 84431 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://af.wikipedia.org/ < 1305673614 119738 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* This wrangous neologism wis niver uised bi native speakers onywhaur at onytime. It wis cleckit in the late 1990s bi Ulstèr-Scotch enthusiasts. < 1305673615 557223 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahahahaha < 1305673619 963266 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I AM SORRY WHO IS SCOTTISH HERE < 1305673624 646058 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :# (nou | last) 16:08, 10 Februar 2011 207.235.31.62 (Collogue) (6 bytes) (Replacin page wi 'POTATO') (undo) < 1305673627 725625 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replacin page wi 'POTATO' < 1305673628 61611 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND WHO IS AN AMERICAN < 1305673630 980755 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replacin page wi 'POTATO' < 1305673631 441355 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replacin page wi 'POTATO' < 1305673631 673698 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replacin page wi 'POTATO' < 1305673631 938636 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: CLEARLY NOÖNE. < 1305673632 787856 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FROM ENGLAND < 1305673634 201285 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replacin page wi 'POTATO' < 1305673634 432689 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replacin page wi 'POTATO' < 1305673634 664500 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replacin page wi 'POTATO' < 1305673634 746514 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replacin page wi 'POTATO' < 1305673642 929915 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: NO TRUE SCOTSMAN DOES NOT SPEAK SCOTS. < 1305673655 840344 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I CAN SPELL WORDS PHONETICALLY TOO < 1305673673 897559 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Stoooooooooooop < 1305673676 502497 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And/or stop < 1305673679 971114 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%A0%CF%8D%CE%BB%CE%B7:%CE%9A%CF%8D%CF%81%CE%B9%CE%B1 < 1305673683 92508 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE GREEKS HAVE FOUND ORKNEY < 1305673693 538370 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's not phonetic unless you don't speak with the Great Vowel Shift. < 1305673700 484728 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: # President Barack Obama bevestig dat die terroristeleier Osama bin Laden in 'n Amerikaanse aanval dood is. < 1305673736 48895 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Amerikaanse aanval dood is"! < 1305673746 715620 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/GRk0v.png < 1305673766 634433 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1305673774 628845 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1305673779 774981 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION remembers that the SNP are basically in charge now. < 1305673786 204779 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OCH AYE < 1305673797 656432 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry guys I can't join in or I'll lose my Scottish licence. < 1305673803 13144 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Guess you better learn Scots, then. And perhaps Gaelic. < 1305673811 736028 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Gælic?) < 1305673819 440697 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :GAYLICK < 1305673822 151573 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'll have to lose all those cool perks we get because the English are suckers. < 1305673834 11510 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, AH BUT I AM ETHNICALLY IRISH < 1305673861 743813 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Fantastic, learn Irish as well! < 1305673864 690435 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the Irish are ethnically Scottish :P < 1305673877 887489 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hell, and Welsh. Might as well pick up all the living Celtic languages. < 1305673892 104566 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cornish? < 1305673897 16527 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: FUCK YOU < 1305673900 52976 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1305673902 601724 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Breton? < 1305673906 410820 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well, as Vorpal can attest, I am also Welsh. < 1305673918 885617 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY HASN'T ENGLISH CONQUERED THE BRITISH ISLES < 1305673945 645919 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Manx? < 1305673954 239377 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no you are Scottish < 1305673972 933786 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it has in the sense that almost everyone speaks it to some degree. < 1305673994 1603 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that there's 100 native speakers of Manx, and 600 of Cornish, I feel justified in calling them dead. < 1305673997 123241 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to go to the Highlands and everyone will be all "Why are you pronouncing everything non-phonetically" < 1305674010 299046 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually they'll just murder me for sounding English. < 1305674017 182359 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wikipedia says 1,700 and 3,000 :P < 1305674032 161051 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: THEY'RE BREEDING < 1305674033 953825 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :HÏVY METAL BÄUND < 1305674038 43037 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Total speakers. < 1305674053 816273 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you said native. < 1305674055 5850 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Given that there's 100 native speakers of Manx, and 600 of Cornish, I feel justified in calling them dead. < 1305674056 78679 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got it. < 1305674066 615665 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but there are like 150 people on Mann. < 1305674086 967112 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :80,000. < 1305674087 457117 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mann is dead too < 1305674097 11144 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you mean "Isle of Man". < 1305674112 176600 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait, you do mean "Mann". < 1305674126 103193 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck you, Mann. < 1305674146 685143 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mann is a douchebag. < 1305674153 640241 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's almost as bad as the time I discovered that the tiny Irish village I get dragged to has a population of around 2000. < 1305674213 316783 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Humans suck at population estimation. < 1305674260 39707 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE ARE NOT THAT MANY PEOPLE < 1305674282 785220 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best part is that according to WP and some calculation, 8 of those people aren't Protestant or Catholic. < 1305674285 382709 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*8*. < 1305674365 886691 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how many of those eight do some other religion < 1305674447 224227 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-136-53.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1305674473 126684 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well done, monqy, you have successfully explicited the subtext! < 1305674483 479540 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1305674509 264772 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should write a script that makes jabberwacky and cleverbot talk to each other. < 1305674520 570865 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :been done hasn't it < 1305674527 432886 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea.. < 1305674530 17174 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably. < 1305674543 380604 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :google results have yielded nothing so far. < 1305675015 517411 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1305675160 6169 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I need your dismissive opinions on Steinbeck. < 1305675242 635065 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The Grapes of Wrath demonstrates a complete lack of understanding about what makes a compelling narrative. < 1305675261 316805 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the pretentious mental wankery? < 1305675266 722659 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :grapes of poop < 1305675282 740832 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Is part of demonstrating that lack of understanding. < 1305675289 652931 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1305675297 878396 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who else do you have dismissive opinions on. < 1305675315 492406 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you'll excuse me, I would like to cease the narrative to wank onto the page!" < 1305675354 370226 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Name some authors, I'll probably come up with something. < 1305675414 665936 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Miller. < 1305675445 132646 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not registering as an author. < 1305675450 408347 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Douglas Adams < 1305675457 14736 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Terry Pratchett < 1305675464 460792 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I cannot dismiss them. < 1305675498 78427 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homer < 1305675534 205518 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's an old Greek dude that people fellate without having actually read anything by him. < 1305675548 724369 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, Meyers < 1305675550 20350 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homo < 1305675550 882254 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks. < 1305675584 664589 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Incompetent author and a Mormon writing about the Mormon ideal of a relationship. Also, vampires. < 1305675599 68757 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: there's no s. < 1305675606 831103 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is the result of me googling "Meyers".) < 1305675614 766457 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And having no clue who you meant until pikhq answered.) < 1305675618 589559 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, SHUT UP < 1305675643 46583 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, vampires can be good < 1305675646 811606 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU HAVE NOT LIVED THROUGH THE TORMENT OF HAVING A SISTER WHO IS A SUPERPOSITION OF EVERY ANNOYING THING A YOUNGER SISTER CAN BE < 1305675661 637555 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Only when they glow. < 1305675663 877284 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Not when written by someone who has obviously never even read Dracula. < 1305675681 158041 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :She went from reading Twilight and zealously following the charts to being a pretentious hipster in about 3 months. < 1305675703 190183 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the internet can do that to people. < 1305675734 67520 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: And appears to think an abusive relationship is desirable. < 1305675766 33364 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a problem with the story, not the vampires < 1305675773 948833 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo really likes vampires. < 1305675775 480666 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, problem with the author < 1305675779 295048 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just saying < 1305675780 606305 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest we psychoanalyse. < 1305675796 805928 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Can you elaborate on that? < 1305675815 256359 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Do you think can you elaborate on that because of an experience you had as a child? < 1305675818 956549 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The vampire is his stepmother. < 1305675844 318418 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, Hemingway. < 1305675861 47253 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: A genuinely good author. < 1305675869 519949 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And supreme badass. < 1305675871 163147 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Joyce < 1305675871 244728 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shakespeare. < 1305675880 842837 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Why do you ask that? < 1305675886 858944 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also, as we established, a woman. < 1305675906 792639 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: An oft-misunderstood playwrite, who uses rather crude language, contrary to popular belief. < 1305675911 811089 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wat < 1305675916 227835 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: (this is going to go nowehre fast...) < 1305675916 914780 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: RESPOND TO MINE < 1305675922 636361 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: already gave up :D < 1305675925 462068 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1305675939 169125 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, we found some gender analyser thing. < 1305675941 345781 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Cannot give a meaningful comment. < 1305675952 601809 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It said complex sentences were male and simple ones female. < 1305675966 712748 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is joyce. you don't need to be meaningful. < 1305675968 880481 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On pikhq's suggestion, I fed Hemingway in, and he came out 83% female. < 1305675980 701455 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you're being a bit negative. :D < 1305675983 393239 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ah, right*. < 1305675995 587240 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty unsurprising. Hemingway reïnvented simple language. < 1305676001 975831 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq < 1305676015 149555 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Diaereses are not necessary between different vowels. < 1305676019 874131 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Allow me to quote Finnegans Wake. < 1305676021 484350 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sir Tristram, violer d'amores, fr'over the short sea, had passen- 4 < 1305676021 718989 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :core rearrived from North Armorica on this side the scraggy 5 < 1305676021 800310 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isthmus of Europe Minor to wielderfight his penisolate war: nor 6 < 1305676021 800456 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :had topsawyer's rocks by the stream Oconee exaggerated themselse 7 < 1305676021 800559 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to Laurens County's gorgios while they went doublin their mumper 8 < 1305676021 951227 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the time: nor avoice from afire bellowsed mishe mishe to 9 < 1305676024 25081 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tauftauf thuartpeatrick: not yet, though venissoon after, had a 10 < 1305676025 950636 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kidscad buttended a bland old isaac: not yet, though all's fair in 11 < 1305676027 948401 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanessy, were sosie sesthers wroth with twone nathandjoe. Rot a 12 < 1305676029 946462 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :peck of pa's malt had Jhem or Shen brewed by arclight and rory 13 < 1305676032 114278 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :end to the regginbrow was to be seen ringsome on the aquaface. < 1305676035 286116 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-248-109.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Fuck yoü. :P < 1305676041 691180 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads the last two pages of Finnegans Wake < 1305676044 601616 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw man, now I've spoilt it for myself. < 1305676045 992586 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: cool story, bro. < 1305676061 859361 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I might be required to like Joyce on account of technical Irishness. < 1305676066 296955 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you see what I did there: it was a joke. < 1305676073 342721 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although Ireland kind of sucks right now so I can't be bothered. < 1305676078 932895 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :technical irishness, the best kind of irishness < 1305676080 393131 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Anyone who uses the word "tumptytumtoes" can't be that bad. < 1305676087 369216 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "humptyhillhead". Or "pftjschute". < 1305676090 544946 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or... "upturnpikepointandplace"? < 1305676096 84763 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonnerronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenthurnuk". < 1305676100 345218 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :These are all from the first page. < 1305676108 333661 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe he pioneered Markov chains. < 1305676117 155821 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: hey clearly that's a genuine welsh place name < 1305676136 439509 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :James Joyce made up nine 101-letter words in his novel Finnegans Wake, the most famous of which is Bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonnerronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenthurnuk. Appearing on the first page, it allegedly represents the symbolic thunderclap associated with the fall of Adam and Eve. As it appears nowhere else except in reference to this passage, it is generally not accepted as a real word. Sylvia Plath made mention o < 1305676136 562212 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :f it in her semi-autobiographical novel The Bell Jar, when the protagonist was reading Finnegans Wake. < 1305676147 507904 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Owing to the work's expansive linguistic experiments, stream of consciousness writing style, literary allusions, free dream associations, and its abandonment of the conventions of plot and character construction, Finnegans Wake remains largely unread by the general public." < 1305676158 64839 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all but saying "actually, it literally makes no sense at all". < 1305676159 674402 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, Banks. < 1305676169 259208 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, noöne else reads the Culture novels. < 1305676267 933705 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :none else would be a plausible norwegian female name < 1305676327 898065 :ralc!~ralc@79.142.230.243.static.knet.bolignet.dk PRIVMSG #esoteric :still going strong elliott_ < 1305676348 559249 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek, a dane < 1305676359 556565 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more plausible in danish, actually < 1305676408 329363 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.107.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ralc: so much stamina < 1305676420 26431 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait danes use double last names instead of first names, don't they