00:00:11 <Deewiant> It does, it'll just clutter your cwd with temp files and fail the i/o tests
00:00:48 <elliott_> It doesn't "clutter", it removes them
00:03:03 <zzo38> Try harder at the Deadfish challenge of code golf!
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00:03:50 <elliott_> OK, I guess I'll implement FIXP now
00:04:46 <elliott_> Deewiant: Hey, what FIXP instructions does slowdown use >:)
00:06:02 <Deewiant> Well, due to comments, don't use -o, but anyway :-P
00:06:17 <Deewiant> Randomization and exponentiation, maybe something else too
00:06:41 <elliott_> I'll just make them all error so I can see :P
00:07:58 <elliott_> Deewiant: Did FIXP used to be two fingerprints or something
00:08:07 <elliott_> It's like fixed-point shit, plus a bunch of random mostly-numerical things
00:08:45 <Patashu> it only exists in befunge?
00:08:53 <lambdabot> forall a b. (Num a, Integral b) => a -> b -> a
00:09:09 <Patashu> how does befunge even have a library
00:09:30 <elliott_> Deewiant: So, uh, by "rnd(n)"...
00:13:49 <elliott_> How slow does slowdown go again
00:14:01 <Deewiant> Slow enough that you'll notice it
00:14:02 <elliott_> $ ./shiro slowdown.b98 forks.b98
00:14:06 <elliott_> Deewiant what did you do........................
00:14:21 <Deewiant> A bug in your space handling? HA HA
00:14:34 <elliott_> Deewiant: Is this a common reaction to slowdown? :-P
00:14:49 <elliott_> Shiro/Interpreter.hs: else doIns val
00:14:49 <elliott_> Shiro/Interpreter.hs:doIns :: Value -> Shiro ()
00:14:49 <elliott_> Shiro/Interpreter.hs:doIns 32 = error "WTF? Executed 32."
00:14:49 <elliott_> Shiro/Interpreter.hs:doIns i | i < 32 || i > 126 = reflect
00:14:49 <elliott_> Shiro/Interpreter.hs:doIns i =
00:14:50 <elliott_> Shiro/Interpreter.hs: replicateM_ (fromIntegral n) (doIns =<< peek pos)
00:14:55 <Deewiant> It was a common reaction of CCBI's to various test things I've come up with
00:14:56 <elliott_> I call doIns literally twice, you must be doing something horrible :P
00:15:16 <elliott_> if isStringMode ip && val /= dquote
00:15:23 <elliott_> OK but I toNextIns before that and toNextIns should never land on a space.
00:15:23 <Deewiant> elliott_: kp such that the p is spaced over?
00:15:42 <elliott_> replicateM_ (fromIntegral n) (doIns =<< peek pos)
00:15:47 <elliott_> So doIns should just nop on a space basically
00:16:04 <elliott_> Hmm but I already /do/ nextInsPos
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00:18:53 <elliott_> Deewiant: What do you mean by "spaced over" anyway
00:19:52 <Patashu> Shiro is a haskell befunge interpreter?
00:20:15 <elliott_> Deewiant: Gets put on top of it... when?
00:20:26 <elliott_> Deewiant: I, uh, think k takes a single tick for m
00:20:43 <elliott_> Oh, you mean the thing inside the k spaces it ou
00:20:46 <elliott_> What should happen in that event?
00:20:49 <elliott_> Should it find the instruction after the spaces?
00:20:59 <Deewiant> The instruction is found only once
00:21:24 <elliott_> So basically, k saves the instruction itself
00:21:42 <elliott_> replicateM_ (fromIntegral n) (doIns ins)
00:22:12 <elliott_> Is it /meant/ to take like over ten seconds before I see any output from a simple program?
00:22:25 <Deewiant> Probably, given that Mycology takes over a second
00:22:52 <Deewiant> If your program is slow it shouldn't be that slow, I don't think
00:22:53 <elliott_> It /used/ to just take a second, but then I had to go and clean up the frickin' code
00:23:00 <elliott_> Deewiant: The program is forks.b9[eight]
00:23:04 <Deewiant> Well, on the order of seconds anyway :-P
00:23:08 <elliott_> Mycology seemed a bit mammoth to try
00:23:35 <elliott_> $ time ./shiro slowdown.b98 mycology/sanity.bf
00:23:46 <elliott_> This is a symptom of a slow fungespace, right?
00:23:52 <elliott_> Not necessarily slow wrapping?
00:23:56 <elliott_> Because sanity.bf doesn't even wrap.
00:24:23 <Deewiant> Slow wrapping would take minutes or hours, probably
00:24:36 <Deewiant> So be thankful it doesn't wrap if you have slow wrapping
00:24:53 <elliott_> Deewiant: I have fast wrapping, just not when you pull shit like this ;)
00:25:21 <Deewiant> For a program as small as that, it might be a symptom of a slow stack
00:25:38 <Patashu> I don't suppose haskell has a profiler?
00:26:10 <elliott_> Patashu: Haskell is a language, it has no profiler indeed
00:26:15 <elliott_> GHC is an implementation of Haskell, it has an excellent profiler
00:26:24 <elliott_> $ time ./shiro slowdown.b98 mycology/mycouser.b98
00:26:37 <Deewiant> elliott_: Slow space and/or stack
00:26:39 <elliott_> Also my fan is on full blast now
00:26:46 <elliott_> Deewiant: Well I do the global bounds thing still.
00:27:03 <elliott_> My stack is just a Haskell list but pushing and popping shouldn't be slow
00:27:22 <Deewiant> Check its max size if you can easily
00:28:17 <elliott_> I can print out the size every tick? :P
00:28:37 <Deewiant> If you want to slow it down a shit-tonne more, go ahead :-P
00:35:24 <Vorpal> <elliott_> It /used/ to just take a second, but then I had to go and clean up the frickin' code <-- fail at refactoring ;P
00:36:05 <Vorpal> elliott_, slow I guess?
00:36:24 <elliott_> just point eight s more on myco
00:36:47 <oerjan> Patashu: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/users_guide/profiling.html
00:36:58 <Vorpal> elliott_, more than the runtime of cfunge on it
00:37:04 <Vorpal> Deewiant, ouch that is huge
00:37:14 <Vorpal> elliott_, request rejected
00:37:34 <elliott_> correctness first unlike cfunge by default >:)
00:38:02 <Vorpal> elliott_, actually the exact bounds has been on by default for ages
00:38:20 <Vorpal> elliott_, besides it was due to a misunderstanding of the spec
00:38:24 <Vorpal> that it happened at all
00:38:53 <Vorpal> elliott_, and stop going "bluh bluh" when you realise you there is no way out of a discussion
00:38:57 <Vorpal> better to admit defeat :P
00:39:13 <Deewiant> elliott_: Found out what's up yet?
00:39:45 <elliott_> Deewiant: Nope, taking a break
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01:27:49 <pikhq_> Patashu: No languages have a profiler.
01:27:55 <pikhq_> Several language implementations do.
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01:28:25 <pikhq_> 3.5 hours until the beginning of the end.
01:29:02 <pikhq_> Yes. 3.5 hours until it is 2011-05-21T18:00 in UTC+14.
01:29:11 <Patashu> Oh, that's where you live? Alright
01:29:20 <pikhq_> Actually, lemme redo that.
01:29:43 <Patashu> Hmm, if I convert before the great earthquake reaches my time zone will I be saved?
01:31:57 <pikhq_> 3.5 hours until 2011-05-21T18:00+14...
01:47:27 <pikhq_> Huh. Tar cannot store all possible UNIX files.
01:47:48 <pikhq_> It is impossible to archive a UNIX socket with tar.
01:48:06 <pikhq_> It is perfectly possible with cpio, though.
01:58:27 <pikhq_> (UNIX sockets are similar to FIFOs in that they actually have entries in the filesystem)
02:00:22 <Patashu> Why wouldn't it be able to?
02:00:49 <pikhq_> Because the archival format does not define a way to encode them.
02:01:15 <Patashu> Isn't the idea that it's just a file, though?
02:01:24 <pikhq_> It's a different type of file.
02:01:44 <Patashu> I know, but I thought the idea of UNIX was that everything could be treated with the same interface - as a file
02:01:48 <pikhq_> Just like device files, FIFOs, and directories are different types of files, so an archival format needs to explicitly support them.
02:02:44 <pikhq_> Yes, but you can't just open a random file *as* a FIFO, device file, or UNIX socket.
02:02:59 <pikhq_> You need to explicitly make them into those types of files.
02:03:34 <pikhq_> So an archival format needs to encode that information.
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02:03:47 <pikhq_> Just like zip can't encode device files, tar can't encode UNIX sockets.
02:04:24 <GreaseMonkey> btw, 373-byte bog-slow BF interpreter in python: http://pubacc.wilcox-tech.com/~greaser/stuff/litebf3.py.txt
02:06:15 <GreaseMonkey> i'd also been working on an optimised interpreter though the best optimisation i had was the simplest (use a tree, use run lengths for >< and +-, and another program node for [])
02:06:49 <Patashu> you only need the exec because you're compressing it, right?
02:08:09 <pikhq_> Inexplicably, pax doesn't support UNIX sockets either.
02:08:10 <GreaseMonkey> ok i hope this routing loop won't kill my connection
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02:09:28 <GreaseMonkey> i'd like to get a simple hub or switch for here though, i have a freedos desktop
02:09:37 <GreaseMonkey> (it's got the drivers it needs or something like that)
02:20:30 <GreaseMonkey> ok my optimised interpreter has been given a kick in the pants
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02:30:11 <elliott_> <GreaseMonkey> btw, 373-byte bog-slow BF interpreter in python: http://pubacc.wilcox-tech.com/~greaser/stuff/litebf3.py.txt
02:30:19 <elliott_> psht, it's below one hundred and sixty chars in C :)
02:33:26 <elliott_> http://j.mearie.org/post/1181041789/brainfuck-interpreter-in-2-lines-of-c
02:33:30 <elliott_> s[99],*r=s,*d,c;main(a,b){char*v=1[d=b];for(;c=*v++%93;)for(b=c&2,b=c%7?a&&(c&17
02:33:30 <elliott_> ?c&1?(*r+=b-1):(r+=b-1):syscall(4-!b,b,r,1),0):v;b&&c|a**r;v=d)main(!c,&a);d=v;}
02:41:00 <GreaseMonkey> ok i've just attempted a sudoku solver in prolog
02:41:19 <GreaseMonkey> well, more of a brute forcer to be quite honest
02:44:43 <elliott_> An hour and twenty minutes until the start of the Rapture, dudes.
02:46:57 <elliott_> No, it's six pm local time everywhere.
02:47:00 <GreaseMonkey> anyhow, i think boardok_boxes() is a bit broke
02:47:51 <elliott_> daylight savings too I suppose
02:48:07 <elliott_> at least it's no more implausible than the rest of christianity :)
02:49:47 <GreaseMonkey> those guys do this big thing on one verse that at least at first says they're wrong
02:49:56 <GreaseMonkey> but they forgot to cover the "but my father only" bit
02:50:26 <elliott_> GreaseMonkey: I wouldn't exactly be surprised to find out that the Bible contradicts itself about that :P
02:50:32 <Patashu> you'd need a ridiculous sized sudoku for brute force to not be optimal
02:54:33 <GreaseMonkey> boardok(Board) :- boardok_boxes(Board), boardok_rows(Board), draw_board(Board), boardok_cols(Board), draw_board(Board), write('^ got one! ^\n').
02:56:00 <elliott_> Deewiant: Somehow mycouser is magically fast now.
02:59:00 <pikhq_> elliott_: It'd just be one more discrepancy, wouldn't it.
02:59:38 <pikhq_> GreaseMonkey: It's not even like they're citing an obscure interpretation of the Bible, though.
02:59:47 <pikhq_> GreaseMonkey: They're doing numerical games.
03:00:22 <GreaseMonkey> i think they're saying that jesus will arrive shaped like a thief
03:00:42 <GreaseMonkey> but i'm sure that what the verse is referring to is jesus' return being unexpected
03:01:29 <elliott_> certainty in interpreting the bible is, historically, not the kind of certainty that turns out to be justified
03:02:39 <pikhq_> As there is no evidence for the veracity of any of the *other* supernatural claims out there, it seems moot that there's any veracity in the supernatural claims of a handful of shepherds and fishermen 2000 years ago, that happened to be a succesful meme.
03:02:53 <pikhq_> Erm, lemme rephrase that.
03:03:26 <pikhq_> "It seems moot to discuss the interpretation of the supernatural claims of a handful of shepherds and fishermen 2000 years ago, that happened to be a succesful meme."
03:03:40 <pikhq_> There, that seems a bit more like what I meant.
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03:14:10 <GreaseMonkey> wow, i haven't found a single board yet that fulfils both boxes and rows
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03:32:18 <Patashu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3bkmD-70e4
03:34:28 <elliott_> Half an hour until the Rapture begins.
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03:40:26 <CakeProphet> msnbc says the world is likely to end at 6 pm on the east coast actually.
03:41:03 <pikhq_> CakeProphet: As has been much discussed, it will be 2011-05-21T18:00 in each time zone.
03:41:17 <pikhq_> And it's 20 minutes until that time in UTC+14.
03:42:38 * GreaseMonkey np pink floyd - another brick in the wall pt 2 (live)
03:43:25 <CakeProphet> pikhq_: ah, I'm glad God is sensitive to our time zone standardizations.
03:43:35 <elliott_> <CakeProphet> msnbc says the world is likely to end at 6 pm on the east coast actually.
03:44:04 <CakeProphet> http://powerwall.msnbc.msn.com/business/your-guide-to-the-end-of-the-world-1688853.story
03:44:20 <elliott_> As far as more RELIABLE sources -- i.e. this channel -- go, it's twenty-two minutes until the island Kirtimati gets an unfortunate case of the raptures.
03:44:40 <elliott_> CakeProphet: that's The Daily Beast, not msnbc
03:44:46 <elliott_> msnbc just appear to syndicate it
03:45:24 <elliott_> Camping says only 200 million will go zoop into the sky.
03:45:33 <elliott_> So converting to Christianity is pretty much pointless.
03:45:54 <pikhq_> GreaseMonkey: Bullshit.
03:45:58 <elliott_> GreaseMonkey: Dude, this is religion.
03:46:10 <elliott_> CakeProphet: Even if nobody gets raptured, though, the horrible earthquake shit will still start.
03:46:19 <elliott_> So we should get reports of the aforementioned earthquake shit soon enough.
03:46:33 <GreaseMonkey> well if he can't back it from the bible he's not a very reliable prophet
03:46:50 <elliott_> GreaseMonkey: And being able to back it from the bible would make him any more reliable?
03:47:02 <elliott_> CakeProphet: Yes. That is the only solution.
03:47:13 <elliott_> GreaseMonkey: And if Camping is right, then yeah, Camping is reliable too.
03:47:13 <GreaseMonkey> but if he's claiming to be a christian, it needs to "line up"
03:47:24 <elliott_> GreaseMonkey: Well, he /has/ "backed" it.
03:47:36 <pikhq_> Oh, the Christians do pull shit out of their ass often.
03:47:38 <elliott_> It's the somethingth anniversary of Jesus kicking the bucket or something like that.
03:47:39 <GreaseMonkey> (hint: if you ever get a call from 91867... find an old computer that doesn't connect to the internet that isn't even x86)
03:48:13 <GreaseMonkey> apparently your computer is broken and they need to run a program to fix it
03:48:25 <GreaseMonkey> (if you have caller ID, that number might show up)
03:48:26 <elliott_> what kind of phone system is this
03:48:34 <elliott_> phone numbers are longer than that
03:48:38 <CakeProphet> Discordian numerology would suggest that the world ended last Thursday. I think Camping needs to rethink his numbers. People go get civil engineering degrees and suddenly they think they can be an apocalypse mathematician... hogwash!
03:48:56 <elliott_> two hours until your rapture, I hope you enjoy it
03:49:12 <HackEgo> 115) <Gregor> I don't know that I've ever heard apocalypi described in terms of depth ...
03:49:18 <CakeProphet> well if New Zeland only has 100 people per zip code...
03:49:38 <elliott_> Well you /are/ all uncivilised backwater sheepfuckers, so I'm hardly surprised.
03:50:56 <CakeProphet> elliott_: wouldn't it be great if all of the Christians vanished and then nothing bad happened? That's almost like atheist heaven.
03:51:26 <pikhq_> CakeProphet: It'd be better if all of the atheists vanished and were lifted into heaven.
03:51:29 <elliott_> even then, you'd have to put up with serious infrastructure loss.
03:51:39 <CakeProphet> elliott_: ...sure. If you want to take my joke literally, as is the case often on this channel...
03:51:41 <pikhq_> "You are rewarded with this, for not believing in things for which there are no evidence."
03:51:53 <pikhq_> Note, though, that many in this paradise would hate God still. But hey, atheist heaven.
03:52:00 <elliott_> pikhq_: you lifted that from a dresden codak comic :D
03:52:18 <pikhq_> elliott_: Yeah, yeah, I know.
03:52:28 <pikhq_> elliott_: Atheist heaven is a neat concept.
03:53:11 <pikhq_> And demonstrates just how little evidence we have for a "god", anyways. If there were a god, from the evidence we have, he really *could* have set up heaven for atheists.
03:53:13 <CakeProphet> elliott_: I see the infrastructure loss as an opportunity for benevolent non-Christian people to take charge and make the world a better place. Like corporations. Yeah, corporations.
03:53:58 <CakeProphet> elliott_: or, barring that, an excellent opportunity to test various anarchist theories.
03:54:04 <Patashu> IT is such an ungodly trade. It needs to be more rapture ready
03:54:07 <elliott_> what's anarchy got to do with this
03:54:08 <pikhq_> CakeProphet: Actually, all the Christians leaving would fuck shit up pretty quick...
03:54:12 <elliott_> besides, there are plenty of perfectly good/intelligent christian people. well i guess it depends how you define christian... if you mean raving fundamentalists, then it'd probably be no big loss, but they're relatively harmless anyway, so it's not really beneficial
03:54:34 <pikhq_> CakeProphet: Let me ask you, what would happen to the world economy if 85% of the US population disappeared?
03:54:37 <elliott_> I mean, you're talking about over a billion people here
03:54:49 <CakeProphet> elliott_: of course. I didn't mean to imply that. I was speaking of what would if society in mostly Christian Western nations collapsed as a result.
03:55:12 <elliott_> And it doesn't really make any sense as something you'd want; even if you're anti-Christianity, disliking Christian people for it is idiotic :)
03:55:41 <elliott_> CakeProphet: I don't think most anarchists view a total natural-disaster-esque (that's what it'd be like) event that plunges society into chaos to be the ideal kind of transition though :)
03:55:59 <elliott_> wtf, wikipedia says there's only about a million wiccans
03:56:05 <CakeProphet> well no. But idealism is always the flaw with those anarchists, you know...
03:56:13 <elliott_> i realise it's a tiny modern sect but that's still weird
03:57:03 <pikhq_> elliott_: Neopaganism tends to be a hard sell.
03:57:29 <elliott_> pikhq_: I guess it's just because wiccans tend to be loud about it ;-P
03:57:40 <pikhq_> Small sects tend to be.
03:58:08 <pikhq_> For instance, Raëlism.
03:58:48 <elliott_> pikhq_: hmm, I would say that Raëlism tends to attract people who are already crazy, though :)
03:58:59 <CakeProphet> elliott_: the number is probably suppressed or diminished in some way as part of a conspiracy theory. Yep.
03:59:01 <pikhq_> CakeProphet: Highly debatable.
03:59:21 <pikhq_> elliott_: Well, yeah, that is Raëlism for you.
03:59:22 <elliott_> Whereas neopaganism tends to (and I realise this is an incredibly biased observation) snap up teens before or after they become nihilists :P
03:59:28 <elliott_> GreaseMonkey: that sure is a weird smiley
03:59:38 <elliott_> CakeProphet: there's about three discordians
04:00:20 <elliott_> GreaseMonkey: no. three. don't give in to the deception.
04:00:47 <Patashu> It looks like his mouth is disintegrating into the air
04:00:52 <Patashu> At least on fixedsys excelsior
04:01:03 <CakeProphet> elliott_: I noticed a mild hangup in my network connection when rapture occured somewhere. :D
04:01:05 <pikhq_> GreaseMonkey: Let's just say that Discordianism is hard to define well enough to give a count of its members.
04:01:08 <elliott_> people /use/ fixedsys excelsior?
04:01:29 <elliott_> did kiritimati just get fucked
04:01:29 <Patashu> I like fixedsys and I like unicode
04:01:40 <elliott_> Patashu: stop liking fixedsys? :)
04:01:52 <elliott_> "Queen reveals she is a huge fan of The X Factor"
04:01:59 <elliott_> just clicked on google news to see about any earthquakes
04:02:02 <Patashu> Maybe I need to start a rumour that fixedsys is the lord's own fonttype
04:02:03 <elliott_> then suddenly lost faith in my monarch
04:02:05 <Patashu> don't think it'd be catchy
04:02:11 <elliott_> just kidding, i don't give a shit about the queen
04:02:19 <elliott_> http://news.google.co.uk/news/search?aq=f&pz=1&cf=all&ned=uk&hl=en&q=earthquake
04:02:23 <elliott_> OK I DON'T SEE ANY EARTHQUAKES
04:02:44 <GreaseMonkey> the lord's font at the moment is that particular sans font that shows up in the later NLTs and NIVs
04:02:52 <Patashu> but aren't there meant to be signs and wonders up until the rapture?
04:03:14 <elliott_> GreaseMonkey: Well, you win the award for "most questionable definition of The Lord's Font of the day" :P
04:03:21 <elliott_> Patashu: No, it's a stealth rapture.
04:03:31 <Patashu> Is that like a stealth fighter
04:03:47 <GreaseMonkey> elliott_: i was going by the typefaces that bibles tend to be printed in
04:04:05 <elliott_> GreaseMonkey: There are plenty more translations than NIV and NLT :P
04:04:09 <GreaseMonkey> there's a gideon's NKJV with a ridiculously bold-looking serifed one
04:04:15 <elliott_> Although I don't have any stats
04:04:31 <GreaseMonkey> i realised that the ESV doesn't seem to have the same font as those though
04:04:36 <Patashu> A meta-analysis of fonttypes used for bibles
04:04:47 <elliott_> Gideons... I wonder if they actually convert enough people to justify the ridiculous effort
04:04:53 <GreaseMonkey> not sure if you can even get the GNB anymore but that uses a serifed font
04:05:06 <pikhq_> I wonder if they've converted a single person.
04:05:13 <elliott_> I'm always really tempted to take the Gideon's Bible whenever I see it in a hotel room, but I'm not sure that's allowed?
04:05:17 <elliott_> I gather they usually do deals with the hotels these days
04:05:22 <elliott_> Rather than actually bothering to go in and put them there
04:05:29 <elliott_> If they were doing it manually it'd be legal of course
04:06:04 <CakeProphet> elliott_: is the moon made out of blood at your locale?
04:06:18 <pikhq_> Well, I'll be. There *was* an earthquake vaguely near 6PM, UTC+14.
04:06:21 <pikhq_> Wrong location, though.
04:06:37 <CakeProphet> should be a standard way to measure the occurance of a biblical standards-compliant rapture.
04:06:39 <pikhq_> http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/strong-65-magnitude-earthquake-hits-off-coast-of-papua-new-guinea/story-e6frf7jx-1226056555864
04:06:42 <elliott_> And how close is Papua New Guinea?
04:06:56 <oerjan> ...rather close, globally speaking
04:07:07 <elliott_> Also, how close is it? Half an hour before?
04:07:27 <pikhq_> elliott_: Approx. half an hour before, yeah.
04:07:41 <elliott_> pikhq_: Startin' to believe a little :P
04:07:50 <elliott_> Man I SHOULD BE IN BED but I am busy talking about the rapture??
04:08:08 <pikhq_> Oh, sorry, the date is "May 16".
04:08:23 <elliott_> Gettin' my hopes up and all that
04:08:37 <elliott_> I like to think that in the ellipsis oerjan typed up there, he started beliving
04:09:42 <CakeProphet> so I guess this is kind of what 2012 will be like too.
04:09:49 <pikhq_> http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/
04:10:15 <CakeProphet> I'm hoping 2012 will be more like what happens in Shadowrun where magic reawakens in our world. Or was that 2013?
04:10:30 <CakeProphet> elliott_: some mild anticipation and boredom, yes.
04:10:36 <elliott_> pikhq_: This map is harshing my vibe. Is there just an ordered-by-time list?
04:10:54 <pikhq_> http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/quakes_big.php
04:10:54 <CakeProphet> elliott_: you can do anything with Perl...
04:11:11 <elliott_> And not if you want to stay happy with yourself and not at all suicidal.
04:11:22 <elliott_> pikhq_: SOUTH SANDWICH ISLANDS best name
04:11:33 <elliott_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Georgia_and_the_South_Sandwich_Islands
04:13:12 <elliott_> Deewiant: WTF. P in FIXP (multiply by pi) doesn't take fixed point as argument.
04:14:02 <lambdabot> Control.Concurrent.QSem signalQSem :: QSem -> IO ()
04:14:02 <lambdabot> Control.Concurrent.QSemN signalQSemN :: QSemN -> Int -> IO ()
04:14:02 <lambdabot> Prelude significand :: RealFloat a => a -> a
04:15:11 <pikhq_> Y'know, if the claims were actually true, I think that all countries but Kiribati could postpone the end inevitably.
04:15:31 <elliott_> pikhq_: Like I said, if you try and tricky bullshit, God will just smite you.
04:15:32 <pikhq_> By having an emergency meeting of their legislatures and declaring their local time to be UTC-several trillion.
04:15:38 <CakeProphet> elliott_: Camping was a civil engineer. It's possible he got his math wrong.
04:15:45 <elliott_> Anyway Christians wouldn't /want/ to.
04:15:50 <elliott_> Isn't the rapture something they /want/?
04:16:47 <pikhq_> elliott_: It's been demonstrated that Christians are more likely to want large amounts of life support to put off death for a bit longer, y'know.
04:17:05 <pikhq_> (I don't have a citation handy, sadly)
04:17:11 <CakeProphet> elliott_: Christians? Afraid of death? Surely not.
04:17:40 <elliott_> pikhq_: It's the frickin' rapture.
04:17:45 <elliott_> God's practically BEGGING you to come home.
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04:19:25 <pikhq_> elliott_: Would work just fine for non-Christian legislatures, though.
04:27:45 <Patashu> Don't civil engineers have to have a factor of safety of 2
04:27:49 <Patashu> So we need to wait twice as long as what he said
04:29:00 <pikhq_> Guess that means I get to sin more.
04:29:12 <pikhq_> After all, the only reason I'm an atheist is so I can sin without consequence.
04:29:47 <CakeProphet> pikhq_: Alternative reason: it's a "phase"
04:37:20 <CakeProphet> ..okay, I'm fairly certain the world isn't going to end now.
04:37:57 <CakeProphet> No. My dad is a Christian and he still walks on the earth.
04:39:18 <elliott_> are you even paying attention jesus
04:39:23 <pikhq_> CakeProphet: Well, it'd happen at 2011-05-21T18:00 local time.
04:39:41 <pikhq_> Unless you live in eastern Kiribati, it's not happened yet.
04:39:48 <CakeProphet> eh, I think if God were going to rapturize us he would do it all at once.
04:40:14 <pikhq_> The claim is that it's happening at 2011-05-21T18:00 in each time zone.
04:40:24 <pikhq_> Have you even been paying attention?
04:40:32 <Patashu> How do you even have earthquakes not along fault lines
04:40:56 <pikhq_> Patashu: Zombie IESVS.
04:41:38 <Patashu> Let's plank in preparation for the rapture
04:41:59 <elliott_> the world is very boring and nothing fun ever happens.
04:43:10 <elliott_> oerjan: how's the rapture in norway (they get arpture early because are dumb)
04:47:18 <CakeProphet> elliott_: you could invest your energies in formulating a proof by contradiction of Christianity as a whole. Or you could find a way to profit off of this. If it's already too late to do that, then you can start profiting on 2012.
04:48:12 <elliott_> Does it matter whether Christianity contradicts itself?
04:48:36 <elliott_> It is perfectly possible to make a belief system just as unlikely that does not contradict itself, after all, and I'd feel no compulsion to believe in that.
04:48:47 <elliott_> So I don't see why the opposite would apply (stop believing in something because it's contradictory).
04:49:29 <pikhq_> One should only believe that which there is evidence for.
04:49:42 <CakeProphet> makes sense to me. the inverse condition isn't going to be truth if the original is true, so... INVALID POINT.
04:49:49 <pikhq_> Whether or not things without evidence are consistent or not is completely and utterly irrelevant.
04:50:02 <CakeProphet> elliott_: inverse or converse, for that matter.
04:51:03 <elliott_> CakeProphet: Point is: believing in Christianity is a mistake not because it might contradict itself, but because it makes outrageous claims that don't pay their dues (they don't offer useful predictive power) and gives no justification for them.
04:51:49 <CakeProphet> Point is: ...I had no point to begin with.
04:52:13 <CakeProphet> profiting from 2012 seems like a much better use of time actually.
04:53:13 <CakeProphet> or somehow design a doomsday-themed esolang...
04:53:46 <elliott_> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Rapture
04:54:05 <elliott_> I wonder if Timwi is seriously not going to edit until Graue sysops him which is not going to happen ...
04:57:12 <elliott_> CakeProphet: its five five seven am
04:57:22 <elliott_> hey happy hour anneverseryu of pocalypse
04:57:28 <CakeProphet> I don't know let me think about it. -opens python-
04:57:33 <elliott_> GreaseMonkey: brace yourself for apoaalypse in hour
04:58:24 <elliott_> >>> random.choice(["sleep", "don't"])
04:59:01 <CakeProphet> should probably not go to sleep and report it immediately.
04:59:49 <elliott_> what if i go to TRY OUT going to sleep
04:59:55 <elliott_> i can just get up and stop going to sleep
05:00:02 <elliott_> i'll fall asleep before i realise it
05:00:09 <elliott_> whoops now i've told myself how it works it won't work
05:00:30 <CakeProphet> I find that taking melatonin helps with that.
05:00:56 <elliott_> yeah i got some thanks to utah apparently being collectively stupid enough to not realise that it's prescription only here?
05:01:03 <elliott_> or, i looked it up and it isn't and they're just planning to make it that
05:01:07 <elliott_> but in the meantime they're telling everyone it already is
05:01:15 <elliott_> because if you fool enough people that's pretty much the same thing as making it law but easier??
05:01:21 <elliott_> but im pretty much tired enough anyway
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05:01:25 <elliott_> as is obvious from how stupid these words are
05:01:30 <elliott_> so i dont think ill have any problem falling unconscious
05:03:04 <elliott_> hey CakeProphet the obligation falls on you to remind me to implement the rest of fixp kthx bai
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05:09:08 <pikhq_> ... There's *germ theory denialists*‽
05:11:37 <Patashu> Oh yeah, forgot about microscopes
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05:17:58 <augur> HAPPY RAPTURE EVERYONE!
05:19:10 <Patashu> it isn't rapture in America, Home of Jesus yet
05:19:23 <augur> ofcourse but todays THE DAY
05:24:32 <Sgeo_> Chatham Islands, 6:09 PM
05:37:35 <myndzi> why is today the day anyway
05:37:39 <myndzi> what's this all about, i've been ignoring it
05:37:51 <myndzi> i thought it was supposed to be 2012 for the mayan thing, so this must be something else?
05:40:38 <coppro> myndzi: it's the rapture
05:42:24 <myndzi> that doesn't really help me any
05:42:28 <myndzi> who decided it's the rapture?
05:42:41 <coppro> it said so in the bible
05:42:52 <coppro> you better hope you get lifted to heaven
05:43:23 <myndzi> i'm definitely going to hell
05:48:15 <Sgeo_> I think you have to wait until October for that
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06:07:11 <pikhq_> Why the pfargtle were there so many damned cops?
06:07:29 <pikhq_> I saw like 4. On the same block. At the same time. Just crusing.
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06:15:03 <ais523> hmm, it's passed 6pm in the UTC+12 timezone, now
06:15:06 <ais523> any evidence of rapture?
06:16:31 <pikhq_> Nor was there any in UTC+13 or UTC+14.
06:16:56 <pikhq_> It's also going to be 6pm in UTC+11:30 soon.
06:16:58 <ais523> do those timezones exist?
06:17:12 <ais523> I thought there were no timezones more than 12 from UTC
06:17:16 <ais523> apparently I was wrong
06:17:28 <pikhq_> Kiribati is UTC+12, UTC+13, and UTC+14.
06:18:13 <pikhq_> New Zealand is UTC+12 (UTC+13 daylight), UTC+12:45 (UTC+13:45 daylight), UTC-10, and UTC-11.
06:18:51 <pikhq_> Aaand that's the set of UTC+12+ timezoned countries.
06:19:54 <ais523> hmm, I like the way we're covering this more or less the same way Ilari covers IPv4 exhaustion
06:20:15 <pikhq_> Total, utter nerdiness? Yeah, it is pretty nice. :)
06:42:26 <pikhq_> Yay, UTC+11:30 rapture!
07:07:24 <ais523> somehow that seems a little unlikely
07:18:28 <pikhq_> ais523: The time *of* the rapture occured.
07:18:47 <pikhq_> The rapture itself, of course, did not, and is extraordinarily unlikely to ever occur.
07:22:07 <Patashu> 38 minutes until the rapture in my local time
07:25:15 <pikhq_> And UTC+10:30 rapture in 5 minutes.
07:25:37 <pikhq_> Fucking Australia, with its :30 time zones.
07:26:24 <Patashu> oops missed a few minutes. 34
07:38:27 <coppro> http://www.ticotimes.net/News/News-Briefs/Chaos-in-Costa-Rica-s-Congress_Sunday-May-01-2011
07:41:15 <Patashu> You know, I think the time zone confusion is a deliberate tactic
07:41:28 <Patashu> Instead of the rapturemania fissling out all at once, it does so over a longer period because no one's sure quite when it's meant to happen
08:01:13 <fizzie> Hmm; I see no new minutes announced. Must've been raptored.
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08:38:48 * Sgeo_ is now in Act 5 Part 2
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08:54:35 <lambdabot> Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
08:57:24 <cheater897> hmm.. someone on freecycle is giving away an orgon radiator. should i get it?
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09:09:21 <ais523> I don't even know what those things are
09:14:09 <Zwaarddijk> ais523: orgone is a "force" that psychologist Wilhelm Reich posited surrounds us and influences us
09:14:39 <ais523> why would anyone ever try to give away one of those, then?
09:17:32 <Zwaarddijk> I bet some people have inherited them and have no desire to use them for any reason wahtsoever
10:03:52 <cheater897> he's also giving away a foot rest, which i might pick up because it's practical.
10:21:50 <Lymia> What does it look like?
10:21:58 <Lymia> You could always purpose it for something practical.
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10:31:13 <cheater897> i hope it's small - then i can use it as a door stop or a futuristic paperweight.
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11:13:43 <augur> anyone interested in seeing my undoubtedly crap fast-as-hell intro to type theory with the simply typed and dependently typed lambda calculus?
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11:17:34 <cheater897> Lymia, aww, that's so cute. i could eat you whole.
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12:05:55 <Phantom_Hoover> [[When a new queen is available, the workers will kill the reigning queen by "balling" her, colloquially known as "cuddle death"; clustering tightly around her until she dies from overheating.]] — [[wp:Queen bee]]
12:06:23 * Lymia hugs Phantom_Hoover <#
12:06:48 * Phantom_Hoover menaces Lymia with a brick until she leaves him alone.
12:07:09 <Lymia> Who could not ilke them.
12:07:23 <Phantom_Hoover> DON'T TRY TO FOOL ME I KNOW AN ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT WHEN I SEE ONE
12:09:14 <Phantom_Hoover> Please please please let it brew Buckfast instead of honey.
12:25:35 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/may/21/jon-ronson-how-to-spot-a-psychopath
12:25:42 <Phantom_Hoover> "I nodded and thought it probably wasn't a great idea for prison libraries to stock books about Ted Bundy."
12:55:43 * Phantom_Hoover wonders why his Facebook tab is taking steadily more memory by the second.
13:11:52 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, ... you use facebook?
13:12:19 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes Vorpal have you considered that you are in fact not the only person in the world.
13:13:13 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, what has that got to do with it
13:13:22 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, I'm just surprised you use facebook
13:13:31 <Vorpal> I'm pretty sure elliott does not for example
13:13:45 <Vorpal> and I would have assumed you would be one to dislike facebook as well
13:13:49 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes this is because I made the mistake of having RL friends.
13:14:13 <Phantom_Hoover> And I do dislike it, I just use it for communication with them.
13:24:08 <Lymia> Phantom_Hoover, tell them to connect to #esoteric
13:26:25 <Phantom_Hoover> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_misconceptions
13:40:18 <Phantom_Hoover> Hmm, spider anatomy is more interesting than I thought.
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13:42:47 <Phantom_Hoover> Dammit, now I want a shirt made of Nephila silk, to go with my ring made of tantalum-180m.
13:43:00 <Phantom_Hoover> If I don't end up a billionaire I am going to go deeply unsatisfied.
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13:51:32 <ais523> do you think there should be a list of uncommon misconceptions, to go alongside it?
13:52:09 <Phantom_Hoover> I would reference "Insect Nation" but it's a song so it doesn't fit as well.
13:52:38 <Phantom_Hoover> "Glass is not a high-viscosity liquid at room temperature: it is an amorphous solid, although it does have some chemical properties normally associated with liquids."
13:53:19 <Phantom_Hoover> I particularly hate that one because it's one of those myths that has attained critical mass, so it's an uphill struggle convincing anyone it's wrong.
13:57:36 <cheater897> yeah, most people just don't understand the way glass flows (very, very slowly) all the time. i mean otherwise why would you have bubbles of air in glass, right?
14:02:27 <copumpkin> and the flowing of glass prevents these bubbles?
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14:03:24 <Phantom__Hoover> Sorry about that, my father disconnected the router again.
14:03:32 <copumpkin> "he observation that old windows are sometimes found to be thicker at the bottom than at the top is often offered as supporting evidence for the view that glass flows over a timescale of centuries. The assumption being that the glass was once uniform, but has flowed to its new shape, which is a property of liquid.[37] However, this assumption is incorrect; glass does not flow. The reason for the observation is that in the past, when panes of g
14:03:32 <copumpkin> commonly made by glassblowers, the technique used was to spin molten glass so as to create a round, mostly flat and even plate (the crown glass process, described above). "
14:03:44 <Phantom__Hoover> Fortunately, he doesn't know that I fixed the neighbours' router earlier.
14:04:13 <Lymia> Phantom__Hoover, for what?
14:04:26 <Lymia> Threaten to ban his MAC address from the router if he does not cease doing so,
14:04:49 <Phantom__Hoover> Except the network card on the laptop blew so it's using a wired connection anyway.
14:05:02 <Lymia> Block wired connections?
14:05:05 <Lymia> Does your router let you do that?
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14:05:38 <Phantom__Hoover> No idea, and I can't really be bothered because then he'll probably just lock my laptop away for insubordination.
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14:06:31 <Lymia> You have any backdoors into his system?
14:07:41 <Phantom__Hoover> Well, I've removed the x flags from all the web browsers in the past, but I don't really feel like being vindictive this time because I'm not really affected.
14:08:01 <Lymia> Blackmail is always fun.
14:08:27 <Phantom__Hoover> "The Coriolis effect does not determine the direction that water rotates in a bathtub drain or a flushing toilet."
14:11:18 <Phantom__Hoover> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Spider_internal_anatomy-en.svg
14:15:29 <fizzie> Most sense in a thing ever: http://p.zem.fi/8tyq
14:20:11 <Phantom__Hoover> Can we expect a rebirth of fungot, now with Homestuck mode?
14:20:28 <fizzie> I should do that output filtering thing, I guess.
14:20:41 <fizzie> Since that's why it's not online at the moment.
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14:35:53 <Lymia> What about Homestuck?
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16:41:11 <Phantom__Hoover> "(tell me why drag queens are OK and the Black and White Minstrels aren't, because I'm really curious)"
16:41:28 <Phantom__Hoover> I suppose this is what I get for reading an article linked to by the Register.
17:07:14 <ais523> I suppose the real reason is that the Minstrels made fun of other people, and drag queens typically make fun of themselves
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17:17:45 <pikhq_> Phantom__Hoover: Drag queens are not making a mockery of females.
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18:11:58 <Phantom_Hoover> Has a more obnoxious communication system been devised?
18:13:24 <Phantom_Hoover> "In March 2007, Greater Manchester Police seized two golliwogs from a shop after a complaint that the dolls were offensive." — WP
18:14:01 <Phantom_Hoover> I have this image now of the police kicking down the door and coming in with guns drawn for retrieval.
18:21:19 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: that seems a little unlikely in the UK
18:23:43 * Phantom_Hoover tries to remember if ais523 lives in Manchester or Birmingham.
18:23:59 <ais523> in the UK, the police generally use axes for raids rather than guns
18:24:15 <ais523> easier to justify, and much harder to kill someone with, while being better against inanimate objects like doors
18:25:12 <ais523> I wonder how easy it is to shoot down a door with a typical gun?
18:26:02 <cheater897> ais523, very easy if you use a shotgun
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18:26:37 <cheater897> you basically need to shoot the area around the lock to disconnect it from the door frame.
18:32:27 <pikhq_> Yeah, that's pretty much the preferred way to break into a house these days.
18:32:53 <pikhq_> (presuming you don't mind your entry being obvious)
18:33:48 <pikhq_> Destroy your door? Hah.
18:41:55 <tswett> When I forget my keys, I think I'm going for a window.
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18:47:48 <elliott> 06:19:54: <ais523> hmm, I like the way we're covering this more or less the same way Ilari covers IPv4 exhaustion
18:48:24 <Lymia> Is heaven facing ipv6 exhaustion yet?
18:50:20 <oerjan> heaven went on ipv7 long ago
18:51:16 <oerjan> also, their global addresses cannot fit inside our universe
18:51:45 <elliott> the pigeonhole principle worries me a bit
18:52:04 <elliott> because eventually names will get as long as what they're naming...
18:52:39 * oerjan feels disgustingly unraptured
18:53:15 <elliott> oerjan: >implying you're one of the two hundred million chosen Christians
18:53:22 <elliott> May 21, 2011 passed without this prediction coming true. [15]
18:53:55 <Lymia> His time zones thing really screwed him over.
18:54:07 <elliott> this is kind of disappointing
18:54:08 <Lymia> We get to say he was wrong 27 times in a row.
18:54:22 <Lymia> elliott, so. We are still living with bigots?
18:54:27 <elliott> like i wish there was some kind of minor earthquake
18:54:38 <elliott> massive earthquake somewhere in the totally unpopulated pacific
18:54:43 <elliott> just to dramatise it up a bit
18:54:49 <Lymia> elliott, then there would be a tsunami.
18:54:51 <Lymia> You do NOT want that.
18:54:54 <Zwaarddijk> Lymia: if we assume rapture occured at astronomical noon, we'd get to say it infinitely many times!
18:54:56 <oerjan> elliott: well there almost certainly was a minor earthquake.
18:55:10 <elliott> Lymia: meh, didn't even feel a thing when japan had one ;D
18:55:26 <elliott> Zwaarddijk: Now now, space is discrete.
18:55:28 <Lymia> elliott, you bastard.
18:55:46 <oerjan> elliott: actually it would be eerie if they discovered there had been absolutely _no_ earthquakes anywhere today
18:56:20 * elliott tries to load familyradio.com, unsuccessfully
18:56:47 <elliott> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/Judgment_Bus_New_Orleans_2011.jpg
18:56:49 <Lymia> [snip]:~/craftbook$ ping familyradio.com
18:56:49 <Lymia> PING familyradio.com (209.10.202.163) 56(84) bytes of data.
18:56:49 <Lymia> 64 bytes from familyradio.org (209.10.202.163): icmp_req=1 ttl=57 time=61.0 ms
18:56:49 <Lymia> 64 bytes from familyradio.org (209.10.202.163): icmp_req=2 ttl=57 time=90.9 ms
18:56:55 <elliott> Vorpal: the radio station of the guy who made the prediction
18:57:25 <elliott> [[Email-Id Awarded £750.000.00 Pounds in B.P.O Promo Send"
18:57:25 <elliott> Names...Tel...Country...]]
18:57:29 <elliott> it's the rapture of ME BEING RICH
18:57:53 <Lymia> elliott, somebody should buy one of those trucks
18:57:54 <elliott> I'm scared to report this as spam because it's such a tiny, contentless email that I'm afraid it'd cause legit email to be considered spam later :)
18:58:15 <Lymia> And drive it on May 22
18:58:20 <elliott> gmail's spam filters seem to be less effective than usual lately
18:58:32 <elliott> Lymia: hmm, what's the current Julian date?
18:59:07 <elliott> maybe gregorian is the wrong calendar
18:59:20 <Lymia> http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/cgi-bin/daterdnm.sh
18:59:39 <Vorpal> elliott, btw, what did the guy himself say about the failed prediction?
18:59:39 <elliott> "UTC has no time zones. It is the same world-wide."
18:59:45 <elliott> Vorpal: that's what I'm trying to find out
19:00:01 <Lymia> UTC has no time zones?
19:00:06 <Lymia> Don't you mean UTC /is/ a time zone?
19:00:45 <elliott> Lymia: ask the military :P
19:00:57 <Vorpal> in any case, that statement is utterly stupid
19:01:02 <Vorpal> anyway why did they have that page
19:01:17 <Vorpal> what is the MJD? Julian day?
19:01:30 <elliott> http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/
19:01:31 <Vorpal> why would the military care about that
19:01:46 <elliott> the military care about accurate timekeeping, obviously :)
19:02:13 <fizzie> And the "usno" part refers to U.S. Naval Observatory, they also care about such things presumably.
19:02:36 <elliott> "America's official timekeeper" apparently.
19:02:48 <fizzie> Oh no, the "How Many Clocks?" link from that front page gives an Internal Server Error.
19:02:52 <fizzie> They must have too many clocks to count.
19:03:42 <elliott> Too many clocks spoil the... time soup.
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19:18:56 <elliott> Shiro/Fingerprints/FIXP.hs:23:63:
19:18:57 <elliott> Couldn't match expected type `(Value, Value) -> (Bool, Bool)'
19:18:57 <elliott> Expected type: (Value, Value) -> (Value, Value) -> (Bool, Bool)
19:18:57 <elliott> Actual type: (Value, Value) -> Bool
19:19:02 <lambdabot> forall (m :: * -> *) a. (Monad m) => m (m a) -> m a
19:19:13 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `a1 -> a' against inferred type `Bool'
19:19:14 <lambdabot> In the first argument of `join', namely `(/= 0)'
19:19:57 <oerjan> <ais523> in the UK, the police generally use axes for raids rather than guns
19:20:07 <oerjan> so the UK police is axe crazy, check
19:20:26 <elliott> ?hoogle (a -> b) -> (a,a) -> (b,b)
19:20:26 <lambdabot> Data.Graph.Inductive.Query.Monad (><) :: (a -> b) -> (c -> d) -> (a, c) -> (b, d)
19:20:26 <lambdabot> Data.Graph.Inductive.Query.Monad mapSnd :: (a -> b) -> (c, a) -> (c, b)
19:20:26 <lambdabot> Data.Graph.Inductive.Query.Monad mapFst :: (a -> b) -> (a, c) -> (b, c)
19:20:38 <elliott> ?hoogle (a -> b) -> a -> a -> (b,b)
19:20:39 <lambdabot> Network.BufferType buf_span :: BufferOp a -> (Char -> Bool) -> a -> (a, a)
19:20:50 <elliott> ?hoogle (a -> b) -> (b -> b -> c) -> a -> a -> c
19:20:50 <lambdabot> Data.Function on :: (b -> b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> a -> c
19:20:50 <lambdabot> Data.Data gmapQr :: Data a => (r' -> r -> r) -> r -> (d -> r') -> a -> r
19:20:50 <lambdabot> Data.Data gmapQl :: Data a => (r -> r' -> r) -> r -> (d -> r') -> a -> r
19:20:54 <lambdabot> forall (a :: * -> * -> *) b c. (Arrow a) => a b c -> a (b, b) (c, c)
19:21:13 <elliott> I'm basically trying to make this work:
19:21:16 <elliott> fpRun _ A = binary (curry (enumValue . uncurry (&&) . both (/= 0)))
19:22:48 <oerjan> @unpl curry (enumValue . uncurry (&&) . both (/= 0))
19:22:48 <lambdabot> curry (\ d -> enumValue (uncurry (&&) (both (\ a -> a /= 0) d)))
19:23:10 <oerjan> wtf @unpl doesn't handle *curry
19:23:24 <elliott> curry (\a b -> enumValue (a/=0 and b/=0))
19:23:29 <elliott> binary (\a b -> enumValue (a/=0 and b/=0))
19:24:41 <oerjan> :t \enumValue -> ((enumValue .) . (&&)) `on` (/=)
19:24:42 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `Bool'
19:24:42 <lambdabot> In the second argument of `on', namely `(/=)'
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19:25:12 <oerjan> :t \enumValue -> ((enumValue .) . (&&)) `on` (/=0)
19:25:13 <lambdabot> forall c a. (Num a) => (Bool -> c) -> a -> a -> c
19:26:48 <oerjan> do you mean fromEnum for enumValue there?
19:29:57 <elliott> enumValue is a function I wrote
19:30:05 <elliott> enumValue :: (Enum a) => a -> Value
19:30:05 <elliott> enumValue = fromIntegral . fromEnum
19:30:20 <oerjan> anyway on (&&) is your both, i assume
19:31:40 <oerjan> which should make it even easier to use there
19:31:48 <lambdabot> forall a. (a -> Bool) -> a -> a -> Bool
19:32:38 <lambdabot> forall b a. (a -> b) -> a -> a -> (b, b)
19:32:43 <lambdabot> forall a. (Num a) => a -> a -> Bool
19:33:04 <elliott> [asterisk]exclamation mark]
19:33:21 <elliott> fpRun _ A = binary (enumValue . on (&&) (/= 0))
19:33:23 <lambdabot> Data.Function on :: (b -> b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> a -> c
19:33:23 <lambdabot> Text.PrettyPrint.HughesPJ OneLineMode :: Mode
19:33:23 <lambdabot> Text.Parsec.Char oneOf :: Stream s m Char => [Char] -> ParsecT s u m Char
19:33:41 <elliott> Couldn't match expected type `Value -> Value'
19:33:41 <elliott> with actual type `GHC.Int.Int32'
19:33:41 <elliott> Expected type: b0 -> Value -> Value
19:33:41 <elliott> In the first argument of `(.)', namely `enumValue'
19:33:42 <elliott> In the first argument of `binary', namely
19:33:44 <elliott> `(enumValue . on (&&) (/= 0))'
19:33:53 <oerjan> elliott: um i did that above, you need more .
19:35:01 <oerjan> although you might not need all the parentheses
19:35:32 <oerjan> :t \enumValue -> (enumValue .) . (&&) `on` (/=0)
19:35:33 <lambdabot> forall c a. (Num a) => (Bool -> c) -> a -> a -> c
19:36:09 <oerjan> that works the same because of on's fundamental property (parametricity?)
19:37:02 <oerjan> elliott: also, binary $ ... >:)
19:37:39 <elliott> oerjan: you might want to use ?enumValue btw
19:52:58 <Sgeo_> It's official, I can't hear the letter "y"
19:53:35 <Sgeo_> Thus far, two names beginning with Y, when I only heard them and didn't have them spelled out, I mentally replaced the Y with something else
19:58:03 <elliott> oerjan: sometimes I feel like Haskell needs a better language for expressing point-free things
19:58:09 <elliott> ((f .) . g) is especially ugly
19:58:18 <elliott> I realise you can define :. or whatever, but...
19:58:24 <Sgeo_> Talking to a guy who just broke up with a girl about that I like that girl
19:59:05 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo_ would you please romancefail in private like polite people do.
20:02:16 <elliott> Deewiant: Any comment re: P in FIXP?
20:03:04 <oerjan> well if you cannot P, then you should FIX it.
20:03:43 <elliott> Deewiant: Well it's just that I'm fairly sure it's meant to take a multiplied integer but it doesn't.
20:04:01 <elliott> As specified it's like multiplying by three, but inaccurate.
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20:06:14 <elliott> I guess I'll just implement it as specced and watch Mycology complain at me for it :)
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20:18:59 <elliott> oerjan: btw is "f ~(x,y) = ..." equivalent to "f xy = let x = fst xy; y = snd xy in ..."?
20:19:04 <elliott> i've never really looked at irrefutable patterns
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20:21:26 <olsner> nothing is ever "equivalent" in haskell, things are just different in ways more subtle than you can be arsed discerning between
20:22:00 <oerjan> olsner: i'm sorry but that's just wrong, as haskell is _defined_ by a lot of desugaring of such stuff
20:23:15 <olsner> if you get to the actual definitions without giving up first
20:23:17 <oerjan> iirc the definitions of pattern matching in case expressions is basic and other pattern matches are desugared to that
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20:24:22 <oerjan> although that part ignores typing
20:25:09 <elliott> I wonder what the smallest practical "core" language is for a lazy functional language
20:25:33 <oerjan> well you could take a look at ghc core i guess
20:25:36 <elliott> I think CPS form + arbitrary tuple construction + arbitrary tuple casing might be it... if you have no types
20:25:49 <elliott> hmm, except you'd have trouble distinguishing two constructors with the same arity
20:25:55 <elliott> I guess the constructor id could be the first element of the tuple
20:25:55 <olsner> if you find out, do let me know - jonguilexiphonaugh wants a small lazy functional core language
20:27:13 <elliott> olsner: unsigned machine words + function calls with a single argument (just a variable name or tuple literals) plus N continuation lambdas taking one argument + tuple construction of arbitrary size + untyped case on tuples?
20:27:34 <elliott> hmm, plus some way of distinguishing integers from tuples in case
20:27:52 <elliott> anyway, anything that calls a function passed to it -- i.e. higher order -- gets desugared into a sort of continuation thing
20:28:11 <elliott> if b (\() -> ...) (\() -> ...)
20:28:14 <elliott> last two are continuations there
20:28:28 <elliott> except you don't need the () I guess
20:28:33 <elliott> maybe continuatinos can take zero args too
20:28:47 <oerjan> um in my mind continuations and laziness are pretty much opposite things - continuations essentially force monadic programming
20:28:58 <elliott> oerjan: well CPS is just equivalent to SSA.
20:29:06 <elliott> you'd still do all the thunks
20:29:22 <elliott> it'd just call the continuation immediately after deciding /which/ continuation
20:29:30 <elliott> OTOH, then, "if _|_ ..." would act "strict"
20:29:33 <elliott> because expressions involving it would diverge
20:29:51 <elliott> but you don't really want pure lambda calculus or anything
20:29:56 <elliott> because that's not very friendly to compilation :)
20:30:18 <oerjan> oh your idea is to get something _less_ than lambda calculus?
20:31:56 <elliott> oerjan: Ideally the thunks would become explicit too...
20:32:04 <elliott> but that'd just make it a strict language I suppose
20:32:37 <elliott> oerjan: But yeah, a more restricted form than the lambda-calculus-with-data is desirable IMHO, because the lambda calculus isn't very conducive to optimisation /or/ compilation into machine code.
20:32:53 <elliott> LC-with-data can be an intermediate step ofc
20:33:42 <elliott> olsner: what /is/ jogongiofdngodfngfg anyway?
20:33:47 <elliott> apart from the best name for anything ever
20:34:15 <oerjan> the official programming language of north korea, i assume
20:35:09 <olsner> indeed, Kim Jong Il Exi Pho Naugh
20:35:17 <oerjan> named after kim jonguilexiphonaugh il
20:35:20 <Vorpal> anyone here good at Dungeons and Dragons rules?
20:35:22 <elliott> but seriously, what is it :)
20:35:40 <olsner> elliott: I'm not going to tell until it has an implementation
20:35:55 <oerjan> Vorpal: you'll just have to wait for zzo38 :D
20:37:02 <olsner> just in case it never gets implemented :P
20:38:52 <elliott> olsner: just a SLIVER of info?
20:41:37 <olsner> elliott: I think I've pretty much described exactly what I was aiming for at some earlier time
20:41:43 <olsner> around the time the name got donated
20:41:49 <olsner> or slightly before then
20:57:51 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to Is.
20:57:56 <Sgeo_> Trolling the mall >.>
20:58:04 -!- Is has changed nick to ls.
20:58:23 -!- ls has changed nick to copumpkin.
20:58:42 <olsner> Sgeo_: trolleying the mall? :>
20:58:57 <Sgeo_> I just want to see if any May 21st believers are there
20:59:04 <Sgeo_> Probably not, but worth a shot
21:00:16 <oerjan> no they all mysteriously disappeared
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21:30:49 <Vorpal> <oerjan> no they all mysteriously disappeared <-- XD
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22:07:29 <augur> man what a crappy rapture
22:17:18 <Vorpal> elliott, found out the "official" explanation yet?
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22:39:05 <elliott> 19:00:35: <ais523> you can't get infinite precision generalised floating point
22:39:05 <elliott> 19:00:40: <ais523> you can get infinite precision rationals
22:39:05 <elliott> 19:00:50: <ais523> and arbitrarily high precision floating point, that's what a bigfloat is
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22:47:25 <elliott> 20:09:59: <AnMaster> ehird____, well yes. But this would be an interesting new file sharing idea. Just share offset in pi
22:47:26 <elliott> 20:10:10: <AnMaster> compression too
22:47:36 <elliott> Pictured: Vorpal doesn't understand information theory.
22:48:58 <oerjan> elliott: i just found myself defining your "both" function
22:49:14 <elliott> oerjan: i think i stole that name from Deewiant
22:49:18 <elliott> oerjan: what are you writing?
22:50:02 <oerjan> i'm modifying my look and say code so it can treat both a left and a right part of the sequence (either of which may be infinite)
22:50:20 <oerjan> and i wanted to apply an abbreviation function to both sides
22:50:32 <oerjan> (which are a tuple (left, right))
22:50:39 <elliott> Deewiant: Those RCS Windows fingerprints -- are they high-level or low-level bindings? I doubt you know, but :P
22:50:46 <elliott> If they're high-level I have this horrible urge to implement them portably.
22:51:17 <Deewiant> I think they're a one-to-one mapping to some X11 stuff but still fairly high-level
22:51:27 <oerjan> (i abbreviate "IIIIIVVIIVIV" to "5_2 1 ")
22:59:56 <elliott> Deewiant: I just mean in the sense of "they're not 'execute arbitrary winthirtytwo function', right?")
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23:45:54 <Patashu> let's watch a guy be wrong about the rapture http://www.livestream.com/familybibleministry
23:47:58 <Patashu> he's rambling at this point
23:48:03 <Patashu> 'he will not come until all of his people are saved'
23:48:11 <Patashu> 'this is the day of salvation, it's still here!'
23:48:23 <Patashu> he's the one that opens up the heart! he's the one that shuts the heart!