00:00:04 work if paid 00:00:07 same as usual 00:00:19 someone pay me 9 cents to make @ 00:03:52 hmm, seems like you can still list it as experience. And with no documented experience, that would be a good way for me to start. 00:04:53 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:07:34 * Phantom_Hoover → sleep 00:07:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:37:22 elliott: It means that the video was scaled with a scaling algorithm that wasn't interlace-aware. 00:37:29 elliott: Which *royally* fucks shit up. 00:39:52 pikhq_: oh well 00:40:00 it was a rip of the first doctor who episodes 00:40:02 probably dvd rip 00:40:07 it was dvd resolution i thin 00:40:09 k 00:40:09 BUT 00:40:16 the interlacing was really minor 00:40:18 and then i found 00:40:18 a torrent 00:40:18 of 00:40:21 EVERY SURVIVING CLASSIC DOCTOR WHO SERIAL 00:40:25 including a bunch of reconstructed ones 00:40:57 elliott: Define "DVD resolution". 00:41:22 pikhq_: seven hundred by blah 00:41:27 seven hundred and something that is 00:41:34 There's, uh, 8 possible resolutions. 00:42:31 yes yes yes 00:42:33 the most common one 00:42:54 There's 4 resolutions that could be called that. 00:43:13 720x576@50i, 704x576@50i, 720x480@60i, 704x480@60i. 00:45:59 720 x 480 00:46:01 twenty-five fps 00:46:02 happy? 00:46:42 Not even slightly. That is a very solidly WTF combination of resolution and framerate. 00:50:05 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:52:39 does 50i mean each line gets updated 25 times a second? 00:52:52 quintopia: Yes. 00:53:06 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:53:12 then it's probably 50i he means 00:53:30 Except that 720x480 is digital NTSC. 00:53:42 (well, or digital PAL-M) 00:53:46 Which straight-up doesn't *do* 50i. 00:54:41 well, even if it's not a real DVD resolution, it would still be considered DVD quality 00:55:53 720x480@50i is completely and utterly screwy, though. I think the only way you could get that would be a downscale from 720x576@50i... 00:56:14 And if the downscale was interlace-ignorant, well, there's elliott's issue with yadif. 00:59:01 Not even slightly. That is a very solidly WTF combination of resolution and framerate. 00:59:06 well it can't be more than twenty-five fps 00:59:12 british tv framerate :P 00:59:13 in the sixties 00:59:17 black 'n whiiiite 00:59:33 elliott: Except that the resolution is American TV resolution. 00:59:44 pikhq: well didn't it use to be different back then... 00:59:54 anyway i'm redownloading it all and this copy's avis are much bigger 00:59:56 so probably better quality :P 01:00:02 elliott: No, the switch was earlier. 01:00:06 its two hundred gigabytes 01:00:07 can you believe that 01:00:09 two hundred gigabytes 01:00:14 well gibibytes even 01:00:42 Oh, wait, they stopped 405-line service in *1985‽* 01:02:47 Anyways, the UK started system I service in 1964... *the year after Doctor Who started*? 01:02:51 The fuck. 01:03:26 Okay, so both 480 *and* 576@50i are weird for that. 01:03:49 pikhq: Well, I wouldn't be surprised of anything... this is probably a DVD rip that's then been reconverted badly. 01:03:54 And god knows how the DVD itself was resized. 01:03:56 This shit is ooooooold. 01:05:23 Hmm. No 1960s episodes exist as original videotape; they only exist as film. 01:05:37 So *already* it's @25p. 01:07:44 pikhq: you should archive binge doctor who with us two to three monkeys :D 01:07:48 itll take us like two years 01:08:18 Actually, I calculated. Only a bit under a year, at a rate of a serial per day. 01:08:50 pikhq: hmm 01:08:52 this thing has 01:09:00 one hundred fifty nine serials 01:09:03 the average serial lasts about two hours 01:09:13 so that's 01:09:18 13.25 days of raw footage 01:09:29 pikhq: at a serial per day it's only half a year 01:09:44 but a serial per day is a pretty intense amount, we'll probably keep that up to start with but definitely not through the whole thing 01:09:55 pikhq: oh and i'm ignoring the new series because seriously you could breeze through that in a couple of weeks 01:09:57 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 01:09:59 which we will of course 01:10:05 and Dimensions in Time, the EastEnders crossover 01:10:08 and the Jim'll Fix It section 01:10:12 pikhq_: logread :P 01:10:38 http://www.icir.org/christian/publications/deadline.pdf What. 01:12:51 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:12:51 LOREM IPSVM DOLOR SIT AMET, CONSECTETVR ADIPISCING ELIT 01:18:32 god 01:18:35 i need a faster internets 01:18:36 and a bigger disk 01:25:36 pikhq_: btw this torrent even includes the reconstructed Shada 01:25:42 Wow. 01:25:46 yeah 01:25:53 http://torrentz.eu/122fccaa560242d3c89577d419e9e485d8e22fae 01:25:57 insanely completist 01:26:12 yeah sure some serials are half mpeg and half avi 01:26:15 but the quality of these things is shit anyway 01:26:21 considering how much of it will be reconstructed :) 01:29:57 elliott: RThis seems to have every episode; I thought some of the earlier seasons were lost outright, and only a few episodes preserved by recordings or through other shows. 01:30:40 Gregor: Some of them are labelled "reconstruction". 01:30:43 Guess what that means? 01:31:01 pikhq_: Presumably at least a little bit more than them not being there at all :P 01:31:16 Gregor: Not EVERY, I don't think. 01:31:30 Gregor: Wrt recordings, I'll imagine there's a lot of them here. 01:31:32 elliott: All of the Doctor Who episodes exist in audio format. 01:31:48 pikhq_: Yes, but they would not make a blank video with an audio track. 01:31:50 That would be ludicrous. 01:32:03 Also that wouldn't be a "reconstruction" 01:32:04 One of the most sought-after lost episodes is Part Four of the last William Hartnell serial, The Tenth Planet (1966), which ends with the First Doctor transforming into the Second. The only portion of this in existence, barring a few poor quality silent 8 mm clips, is the few seconds of the regeneration scene, as it was shown on the children's magazine show Blue Peter. 01:32:06 And I'm pretty sure fans have made "reconstructions" of each. 01:32:12 It... has part four here. 01:32:24 Listed as "reconstruction". 01:32:28 So I guess it's like, a fan animation? :P 01:32:48 More typically fan pieced-together-photos. 01:32:59 Nice X-D 01:33:00 There's also a lot of photos of each episode. 01:33:01 ... lol 01:33:18 Gregor: Don't laugh, it's like a radio show :P 01:33:26 I mean, fair enough, they're working in difficult circumstances, but still ... lol. 01:33:29 Sweet, the ENTIRETY of "The Smugglers" is listed as a reconstruction. 01:33:45 And no, it's not like a radio show, it's not like you can just remove the video from a TV show and have a radio show X-D 01:33:47 "All four episodes of this serial are considered missing. The soundtrack and telesnaps survive, along with bits of Australian censor footage." 01:33:54 So all the hot naked bits survive. 01:34:11 Gregor: I don't care, we're still watching them :P 01:34:12 lol 01:34:36 Maybe we can read the novelisations simultaneously to figure out what's going on. 01:34:38 So as of what series are they actually all present? 01:35:25 Gregor: Between about 1964 and 1973, large amounts of older material stored in the BBC's various video tape and film libraries were either destroyed,[40] wiped or suffered from poor storage which led to severe deterioration from broadcast quality. This included many old episodes of Doctor Who, mostly stories featuring the first two Doctors: William Hartnell & Patrick Troughton. Following consolidations and recoveries the archives are complete fro 01:35:25 m the programme's move to colour television (starting from Jon Pertwee's time as the Doctor), although a few Pertwee episodes have required substantial restoration; a handful have been recovered only as black and white films, and several survive in colour only as NTSC copies recovered from North America (a few of which are domestic, off-air Betamax tape recordings, not of transmission quality).[citation needed] In all, 108 of 253 episodes produce 01:35:29 d during the first six years (most notably series 3, 4, & 5, from which 90 episodes are missing) of the programme are not held in the BBC's archives. 01:35:44 So, all Pertwee episodes onwards survive, although some required substantial restoration and some are only black and white or low-quality colour. 01:35:54 Presumably after Pertwee it's all good. 01:36:02 Anything after 1973 should be good to go, since the destruction ended then apparently. 01:36:25 I wonder in what universe film studios decided "Well we're done with this, let's just burn this shit." 01:36:54 Gregor: The same universe that today didn't really blink an eye at Encyclopedia Dramatica being unilaterally wiped? 01:37:01 Heh 01:37:02 Touche 01:37:09 (OK, that has much less... lasting potential, but then they thought old episodes had no lasting potential either.) 01:37:28 Gregor: THIS IS WHY US ARCHIVISTS ARE IMPORTANT 01:37:32 EVEN IRC CHANNELS ARE AT RISK 01:37:41 Dun dun DUN 01:38:22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who_missing_episodes 01:38:25 "There are 27 incomplete Doctor Who serials, with 108 of 253 episodes from the first six years of the programme missing." 01:39:04 -!- lament has joined. 01:39:46 Gregor: Seems the BBC has released similar stills-plus-audio "reconstructions" :P 01:40:13 Super :P 01:40:36 I sure hope they've mixed in the few seconds of regeneration footage into The Tenth Planet. 01:40:42 IT WILL BE RUINED WITHOUT IT 01:41:12 "This is reflected in the nature of the surviving episodes – Seasons 1 and 2, the most widely-sold abroad of the 1960s era, are missing only nine and two episodes respectively. Most of the episodes probably survived due to a late sale in 1973 to Algeria, which is believed to have returned their copies to BBC Enterprises after their rights to broadcast them had expired, shortly before the end of the junkings." 01:41:27 "Of all the series shown by the Corporation throughout the 1960s which had runs of significant length, only Steptoe and Son can be said to have a better survival record [...]" 01:41:49 Gregor: Apparently all seventies episodes survive, so there's only... seven years with gaps :P 01:41:58 Seven years that will pass rather quickly :P 01:41:59 Yesssssssssssssssssss :P 01:42:04 lol 01:42:08 (Consider that one serial is like four weeks.) 01:42:10 (And only about two hours.) 01:42:48 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/07/Fury_from_the_Deep.JPG "Bill Burridge as Mr. Quill, in a scene censored by the Australian Film Censorship Board from the missing serial Fury from the Deep." 01:42:56 IT'S JUST TOO SCAR 01:42:58 IT'S JUST TOO SCARY 01:43:37 "Episodes 5 and 10 came from an ex-BBC property which had been purchased by a LDS Church group in the early 1980s, who had come across the films when tidying the basement and subsequently offered them back to the Corporation." 01:43:40 MORMONS 01:43:51 This article is amazing :P 01:44:56 Bahahaha, the censor stuff is pretty great. 01:45:11 The only surviving scenes are those which were cut for Australia ... that's just bizarre X-D 01:45:23 Doctor Who: The SCARIEST Moments 01:45:33 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/34/Invasion_reconstruct.jpg "An example of a Loose Cannon reconstruction from The Invasion, with rolling subtitles to indicate action not obvious from the audio track." 01:45:41 OK that's way better than just stills and audio :P 01:46:00 "Since the late 1990s, reconstructions of the missing serials have been made by fan groups such as Loose Cannon Productions, who distribute them free.[34] These "recons" are based on the directors' original camera scripts, and use a combination of the surviving soundtracks, surviving footage, photographs, still images (especially Cura's tele-snaps) and specially-recreated material.[34][35] Although technically infringing copyright, these recons h 01:46:02 ave been tolerated by the BBC, provided they are not sold for profit and are only distributed in degradable, non-digital formats such as VHS.[34]" 01:46:07 Only distributed in degradable formats. 01:46:11 LEARNED OUR LESSON I SEE 01:46:38 ... wow. 01:46:57 Gregor: But they're in this torrent, so herp derp I guess nobody is listening to the BBC :P 01:47:11 Torrents rarely try hard to fit with legality X-D 01:47:11 Unless these are VHS rips X-D 01:47:33 Yeah, but the fans who produce the recons you might think would, given that paragraph :P 01:47:40 So these are either VHS tapes or EVIDENCE OF NAUGHTINESS 01:47:43 VHS rips, that is 01:47:58 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:48:19 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:48:29 This is an absolutely insane binge, isn't it >_> 01:48:31 I'd actually bet these are VHS rips. 01:48:37 Gregor: Oh gawd :P 01:48:46 It's especially insane since I'll bet early Doctor Who was pretty much shit :) 01:49:11 Gregor: Hey, An Unearthly Child was really good :P 01:49:24 Even the racism! 01:49:32 The Cave of Skulls was... less good. 01:49:36 Worst cavemen evar 01:50:07 (The racism was when the Doctor charmingly compared humans' inability to understand the technobabble that is the TARDIS by analogising us to a Red Indian quote-unquote "savage".) 01:50:16 We're all basically indians of the stars dudes 01:50:35 Gregor: Anyway, how can I possibly say I enjoy the new series without the decades of context >:) 01:52:22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_No_Tobacco_Day 01:52:33 They should just institute a World No Tobacco Month and suddenly everyone will be cured of their smoking addiction 02:11:32 Gregor: Worse. We've got camera-pointed-at-screen rips. 02:11:38 are you serious 02:11:45 pikhq: btw "these" was "reconstructed things" 02:11:49 Black-and-white filme cameras pointed at the screen. 02:12:01 Ah. The reconstructions literally are VHS rips. 02:12:26 Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice 02:12:27 The BBC frowns upon fan groups distributing reconstructions on more permanent media, for reasons I do not understand. 02:12:39 Of course, a torrent of Doctor Who isn't about to give a fuck. 02:12:42 Herp derp coopyright infrongement 02:13:03 I guess it takes away sales from a hypothetical future BBC reconstruction :P 02:13:21 If, uh, they ever actually *make* them. 02:13:29 Well they've made A FEW :P 02:13:37 The closest you can get is official BBC CDs of the audio for most of the episodes. 02:14:24 Shame that they can't really spend money to actually animate the missing episodes. 02:15:06 They did for The Invasion :P 02:16:20 Yeah, but that was an oddity... 02:17:07 It seems that, since only one of us has a disk that can actually fit all these episodes at once, and is also getting the fastest speed (i.e. just above crawling) on the torrent, we're going to do trans-continental external hard drive mailings in lieu of us all downloading it separately :P 02:17:11 AWEEEEEESOMEEEEEEEEE 02:19:03 For our next trick we'll binge the entirety of Guiding Light. 02:19:04 ALL OF IT. 02:19:33 That's right, all YEAR AND A HALF of it. 02:19:41 That might not even include the radio series :P 02:19:53 And it'll be EVEN 02:19:54 LESS 02:19:55 ENJOYABLE 02:20:01 "Not much survives from the radio years, or the first 25 years or so of its TV incarnation, and what does exist is in the form of kinescopes and home video recordings (and vinyls, in the case of the radio years)." 02:20:04 DAMMIT 02:20:18 pikhq: plz to be salvaging old episodes of bad soap opera 02:21:02 Oh, jesus fuck. 02:21:22 pikhq: MUST ARCHIVE BINGE 02:21:58 hmmm 02:22:24 so I need to find an open source project working on something that I can contribute a lot to.. hmmmmm 02:22:42 Aren't you going about this totally wrongly 02:22:47 ...no? 02:22:52 Why not look for a program you want to use and contribute to that 02:22:57 Rather than just looking for something random to contribute to 02:23:27 either way works fine, I'd say. 02:23:41 Uhhhhh no 02:25:03 elliott: Next, archive binge Doraemon! 02:25:26 and it's not random. I don't necessarily have to be using something in order to contribute to it. For example, a bookkeeping system. There was another project featured on sourceforge that converted odt to various braile formats. Not something I'd use, but something I wouldn't mind working on. 02:25:31 Meh, that's tiny :P 02:25:41 elliott: what's wrong with this approach? 02:26:02 CakeProp1et: You can't contribute well to something you don't understand; understanding something you're not actually interested in using is not an easy thing to do. 02:26:07 elliott: Uh, 2,000 episodes. And counting. 02:26:08 Putting lots of effort into it is even less feasible. 02:26:28 right, that's why I was thinking of things I understand so I could "randomly" go find a program I could work on. 02:26:32 But hey, "GIVE ME SOMETHING TO CODE" is the attitude of shittons of, like, fourteen year old programmers on the interwebs, so maybe I'm just old. ;-P 02:27:36 Hmm, I think prog21 actually had a post on this 02:27:57 Here it is 02:27:58 http://prog21.dadgum.com/80.html 02:28:31 for example, I know a bit about signal processing, text-based games, programming languages, and various internet protocols. 02:28:47 Programming in the 21st Century is a good blog. 02:29:37 ah, music is something I know about. notation, theory, etc. 02:30:54 Please, scratch your itches. 02:33:24 now it's just a matter of finding a program that concerns one of these interests, and finding one that is actually in need of some serious work. 02:33:45 you could always just write your own 02:33:51 rather than working on something broken 02:34:04 ...I do plenty of that. I never finish. 02:34:48 right now I'm working on a Perl script that organizes music, but I think I'm going to move it to C# so I can distribute it in Windows easily. 02:35:06 nice, inferior language restricting it to an inferior os 02:35:07 I'm not too far into the Perl version so it's no big deal to switch now. 02:35:33 elliott: C# can run in linux just fine. 02:35:57 -!- lament has changed nick to lament_. 02:36:28 CakeProp1et: unless you use too recent .NET features 02:36:33 then it doesn't 02:36:49 WHOOPS TURNS OUT MICROSOFT DOESN'T ACTUALLY DISTRIBUTE OPEN SPECS FOR THE APIS IN THAT MANNER................ 02:37:06 -!- lament_ has changed nick to lament. 02:37:51 well, I think I COULD package my Perl program for Windows, but then I also want to give it a GUI at some point and I'm not really sure if Perl is the right language for that. 02:38:24 yeah, it's not a total pain to code in like C# is 02:38:27 unsuitable 02:44:19 elliott: I was under the impression that you didn't like Perl. 02:45:10 better than C# :) 02:46:22 I think C# is better than everything it is based on, but otherwise isn't great. 02:47:00 -!- CakeProp1et has quit (Quit: Changing server). 02:48:26 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 02:48:26 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Changing host). 02:48:26 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 02:57:34 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:11:37 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:12:18 -!- wareya has joined. 03:15:51 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 03:18:04 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 03:33:16 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:35:56 -!- azaq23 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 03:43:13 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:52:11 -!- azaq23 has joined. 04:11:46 -!- Sgeo has joined. 04:19:55 anyone here like tabletop games? I've been looking for a group to play Shadowrun via IRC, but no luck so far. 04:20:46 -!- oerjan has joined. 04:22:34 * Sgeo is always up for Paranoia 04:22:41 Does that ount as "tabletop"? 04:23:52 well if you use the table for rolling dice... 04:24:29 I don't really know what Paranoia is actually.. 04:24:53 well good, you are not cleared for that information anyway. 04:28:28 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:28:38 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:28:44 -!- Patashu has joined. 04:32:27 -!- lament has joined. 04:36:47 -!- Wamanuz2 has joined. 04:40:24 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 04:55:51 oh look, I'm finding emacs-like key combinations in other programs I use. Like irssi 04:56:13 C-a C-k is a great thing type when I'm about to say something stupid. :D 04:57:46 (note the irony of the above) 04:58:22 noted. 05:03:47 doesn't work for me due to screen 05:04:20 C-a and C-j is a terrible thing, however. 05:04:24 coppro: C-a C-a. 05:04:30 Erm, C-a a 05:04:45 CakeProphet: C-u is shoter 05:04:54 *shorter 05:04:54 oh cool. 05:05:26 oerjan: as an American hearing things like "shawty" often, that made perfect sense to me. :) 05:05:38 aw kay 05:06:13 CakeProphet: also, /bind 05:06:43 oh nice. 05:09:43 pikhq: fun 05:10:34 * oerjan recalls he changed home and end to do scroll_start and scroll_end. 05:10:55 before they just duplicated C-a and C-e 05:13:19 -!- Wamanuz3 has joined. 05:14:25 * pikhq wonders if anyone has Leviticus 19:28 tattooed on them. 05:14:40 "You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor tattoo any marks on you: I /am/ the LORD." 05:14:48 hahaha 05:15:02 I would. :) 05:15:28 "I put it there in memory of my late girlfriend" 05:15:41 :) 05:15:46 "This scar, too." 05:16:48 -!- Wamanuz2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 05:18:22 does "for the dead" apply to the part after the comma, or all _all_ tattoos forbidden 05:18:33 *are all 05:18:38 I dunno. 05:18:45 Might as well hit all possibilities. 05:18:53 people do, even now, tattoo marks for the dead 05:19:05 the "any" seems to suggest no tattoos at all. 05:19:19 (lil wayne) 05:19:22 lament: Well, yes, I'd imagine it's not *too* uncommon for someone to get a tattoo in memoriam, after all. 05:19:46 but I don't know, English is a little /too/ esoteric for this channel. 05:19:59 especially translated from other languages. 05:20:19 'But by far the Christian tattooers favorite excuse for disobeying Leviticus 19:28 is the "that means nor print any marks upon you – for the DEAD". It’s ok, as long it’s not for the dead".' 05:20:58 like anyone actually follows everything in leviticus.. 05:21:09 CakeProphet: Well, except the anti-gay stuff. 05:21:22 That they shout from the rooftops. 05:21:44 oerjan: Strange, I thought the usual excuse was to claim that Jesus made those laws moot. 05:22:07 Jesus did quite clearly make the Kosher laws moot... and made 0 laws moot... 05:22:08 The Jews take that particular law quite seriously 05:22:15 * Sgeo 's head spins 05:22:41 pikhq: that page then goes on to fume further about it 05:22:55 It *is* the Bible. 05:23:09 Land of the vengeful, hating god YHWH. 05:23:22 In Shadowrun, there are tatoos that animate and change color. That would be pretty sick. 05:23:50 CakeProphet: just do it with nanobots 05:24:00 I think that's how they explain it. 05:25:21 there's also all kinds of genetically modified implants that are purely cosmetic. cats eats/eyes/tails, oddly pigmented skin, scales, etc. 05:25:45 I wonder what conservatives will say then. :) 05:26:28 Eh, with any luck we'll have shoved the lot of them on the B Ark. 05:27:22 I would get some photosynthetic skin, and live off of sunlight. For great profit. 05:27:47 (but not for great "prophet." ZING!) 05:28:25 B Ark? 05:32:37 but then who will clean our telephones! er wait.. 05:36:20 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 05:38:16 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:39:05 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:52:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 06:52:26 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKy_VTBq0yk 06:52:42 This is so stupid it hurts... 06:53:55 -!- azaq23 has left. 06:55:14 Let S be the set containing 0 and the successors of the members of S. 06:55:19 Disproved. 06:55:43 pikhq_, ah, but you're using AXIOMATICS which you DON'T UNDERSTAND. 06:57:24 'mathfoundations' 06:57:26 what is this? 06:57:56 Phantom_Hoover: *sigh* 06:58:22 "I don't understand it therefore noöne does" is a depressingly common fallacy. 06:58:37 let l = [0..] -- Let S be the set of numbers in the Haskell value l, of type [Integer}. 07:01:02 I wonder if he is opposed to succ. 07:01:49 Cause, uh, that implies the existence of an infinite set. 07:02:27 I think he's opposed to it on the grounds of the paradoxes of naïve set theory. 07:03:16 Which is why he skips from 1900 to 2009 as if everyone suddenly went from "oh god this makes no sense" to "let's use this EVERYWHERE" without anything in between. 07:03:42 Isn't there a reason we don't use naïve set theory? :P 07:05:20 Phantom_Hoover, why not inform him about what he's doing wrong? 07:05:27 Instead of being inflammatory? 07:05:32 Sgeo: Willful ignorance. 07:05:56 Sgeo, because when confronted with the reasons he was wrong he dismissed them as BASELESS AXIOMATICS WHICH MOST MATHEMATICS NEITHER UNDERSTAND NOR USE 07:06:16 We're not exactly taking esoteric, impossible details here. 07:06:42 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:06:44 Isn't it kind of tautological to say a mathematical object doesn't exist 07:06:50 Nothing about maths exists 07:06:57 Well, ZF{C} isn't the most intuitive thing, but he's making essentially the same mistake as my Idiot Chemistry Teacher. 07:07:00 Patashu: A philosophical point. 07:07:12 Patashu: He seems far-gone from that. 07:07:13 oerjan, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKy_VTBq0yk 07:07:15 Discuss. 07:07:58 Isn't there a reason we don't use naïve set theory? :P 07:08:03 russell's paradox 07:08:06 oerjan, yes. 07:08:06 Yup 07:08:23 Which is why the man is an idiot for dismissing all set theory because of the failings of naïve. 07:08:30 oerjan: Yeaaah, I know. 07:08:59 The way he presents it is exactly how you'd expect a charlatan to, which suggests that he either knows he's wrong or that he's *really* deluded. 07:09:49 There's no profit in rejecting set theory though 07:11:11 ... Hmm. If he rejects infinity... Wouldn't that mean he also rejects Turing machines? 07:11:25 I propose we rip the computer out of his hands. 07:11:46 And possibly rip his hands out of his hands, too. 07:12:14 pikhq_, that's just silly. 07:12:28 And? 07:12:29 this may surprise you, but your computer is not _actually_ turing-complete, pikhq_ 07:12:31 Computers are finite 07:12:35 beaten 07:12:38 For one thing, you do not actually need infinite sets for TMs. 07:12:40 oerjan: LIES AND DECEIT 07:12:53 oerjan: I CLEARLY SPENT INFINITE MONEY FOR THIS INFINITE TAPE SPOOL 07:13:20 Which is why I'm hosting a mirror of the entirety of the Internet. 07:13:27 ic 07:13:50 (The control mechanism is entirely finite, and the tape only requires that you generate more tape as the head moves onto blank space.) 07:14:22 (and by "mirror of the entirety of the Internet", I of course mean "the state each and every portion of the Internet, at each and every multiple of 1 Planck time since the first IMP booted for the first time.") 07:14:31 s/state/state of/ 07:14:53 Phantom_Hoover: Screw your "logic", I have pointless assertions. 07:15:05 And a lack of sleep. 07:15:07 pikhq_, SO DO I 07:15:09 Jeeze, it's 01:15. 07:15:14 Except for the lack of sleep part. 07:15:33 BUT STILL 07:15:58 Nothing about maths exists 07:16:16 In before logreading elliott: ultimate ensemble. 07:16:28 Phantom_Hoover: Philosophical debate utterly irrelevant to mathematics. :) 07:16:47 I found a 2 in my bed last night 07:16:52 It wanted to do some multiplication with me 07:16:58 Hot. 07:17:01 Did you oblige it? 07:17:09 No, I'm not oblique 07:20:28 ...oh god I'm stuck listening to the Homestuck music again. 07:20:32 I had things to do today! 07:21:31 `perl $b='$b=%c%s%c;printf$b,39,$b,39;';printf$b,39,$b,39; 07:21:34 No output. 07:21:37 lies 07:21:49 CakeProphet, you can run Perl on your own computer, you know/ 07:21:57 nope. 07:22:11 I can't run Perl in IRC on my computer without substantial effort. 07:30:25 Phantom_Hoover, which music? 07:45:09 -!- pikhq has joined. 07:47:39 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:52:26 If I don't turn the computer off, I'm not going to go to sleep, am I? 07:54:15 a most likely hypothesis 08:09:56 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:11:19 -!- Vorpal has joined. 08:15:37 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 08:18:53 -!- _Alex_50 has joined. 08:20:05 <_Alex_50> Hi! 08:20:48 -!- _Alex_50 has left. 08:22:10 Well that was odd. 08:24:40 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:45:45 -!- Sgeo has joined. 08:46:47 Wow, you slept for a whole 40 minutes or so. 08:48:44 New plan: Stay awake, sleep later in the day, take melatonin next night 09:03:13 Phantom_Hoover, which music? 09:03:16 All the music. 09:03:18 All of it. 09:52:29 "I am like this huge lesbian." --Andrew Hussie 10:03:34 Pirates love silly hats. Gregor loves hats. Therefore, Gregor is a pirate. 10:09:23