< 1306886629 511849 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: how does ghci handle the IO monad? < 1306886634 314381 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot remember. < 1306886747 196581 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Whaddya mean? < 1306886762 278708 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it execute IO actions if they're top level? < 1306886783 219929 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it acts like a "do" block in the IO monad. < 1306886787 478924 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, will it modify IOrefs if you tell it to. < 1306886789 375917 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1306886795 735280 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except you can also put expressions in. < 1306886802 292306 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> x <- ... < 1306886802 473247 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotcha < 1306886802 833555 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `...' < 1306886803 814196 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :works, etc. < 1306887085 385595 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1306887122 444595 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thiking one improvement to these demonstrations would be a way to pass around mutable IOref parameters to these sound generators. < 1306887125 994686 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then change those. < 1306887140 312173 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think that would greatly complicate the syntax. < 1306887196 827146 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (:=) < 1306887196 899912 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Parallel.Strategies (:=) :: a -> b -> Assoc a b < 1306887208 673447 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (::=) < 1306887208 785027 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1306887236 388467 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoogle (~+) < 1306887314 638167 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (~+) < 1306887314 710078 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1306887359 637358 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: what are you looking for < 1306887371 912106 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what you demonstrated looked totally pure < 1306887375 209158 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why force it into the IO monad? < 1306887514 396615 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: no I was referring to yaxu.org < 1306887525 160993 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1306887529 391789 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope what I just posted to the LSL list wasn't downright stupid < 1306887542 707312 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the odds are not on your side. < 1306887545 741222 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: and I was seeing what other operators looked like that, as I was thinking of my own operators to use. < 1306887640 84432 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1306887655 786074 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/private/60bknz58chvetmttccch0w < 1306887708 591765 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: though with his emacs interface he really doesn't need to use IOref. He just changes the parameters by hand and reloads it via some black magic. < 1306887719 747609 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/interface/mode/ < 1306887813 915817 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish Google could search for non-alphanumeric characters better. < 1306887832 284121 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"haskell ($)" gives me nothing about ($) < 1306887867 506543 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it's IORef not IOref btw < 1306887869 710530 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use hoogle :P < 1306887876 831110 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott_: and I was seeing what other operators looked like that, as I was thinking of my own operators to use. < 1306887879 577447 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't use : < 1306887883 312261 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's reserved for types and type constructors < 1306887886 178964 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of like Uppercase is < 1306887897 269505 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/type constructors/constructors/ < 1306887901 703480 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that's right. < 1306887989 781440 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Hoogle doesn't show the fixity declaration though, which is what I'm looking for. < 1306888030 408188 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh but hey < 1306888031 820575 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I foudn it < 1306888035 312022 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (0$0$) < 1306888035 963011 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : The operator `GHC.Base.$' [infixr 0] of a section < 1306888036 37003 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : must have lower prec... < 1306888044 998829 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual hoogle website has it. < 1306888051 956202 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan knows the proper trick for that < 1306888053 309109 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (0$0+) < 1306888053 907081 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : The operator `GHC.Num.+' [infixl 6] of a section < 1306888053 980002 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : must have lower prece... < 1306888057 142903 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe this is the trick < 1306888057 826660 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it is < 1306888059 439690 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (0$0/) < 1306888060 35511 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : The operator `GHC.Real./' [infixl 7] of a section < 1306888060 107882 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : must have lower prec... < 1306888068 215755 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: also < 1306888072 429188 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude> :info ($) < 1306888072 506360 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :($) :: (a -> b) -> a -> b -- Defined in GHC.Base < 1306888072 579465 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :infixr 0 $ < 1306888094 235866 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if Haskell will let me define a negative precedence level. :3 < 1306888129 931935 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for fancy assignment-like operators < 1306888181 62655 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1306888188 244264 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually using 0 is a bad idea... < 1306888193 540606 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it will stop people using $ < 1306888195 534272 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :use one at the most :P < 1306888198 621122 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... at the least < 1306888213 384 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I want < 1306888233 575069 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"name" := someUngodlyFunction $ someUngodlyParameters ... < 1306888248 217990 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace the := with something else < 1306888266 943893 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well I guess I'll just have to settle with parenthesis < 1306888273 582854 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, you know, I might not even implement something like that at all. < 1306888274 600875 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"name"? < 1306888278 130621 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? /strings/? < 1306888290 221503 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how I roll, dog. < 1306888293 943764 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is impatient for a reply < 1306888304 268744 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: enjoy creating the worst haskell library of all time :x < 1306888309 910178 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :type safety, who needs it < 1306888336 719886 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry, I haven't created anything yet. < 1306888353 865600 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Haskell's printf type-safe? I mean, it type-checks just fine, but < 1306888393 696102 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no < 1306888396 460731 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody uses it though :) < 1306888400 231003 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's a way to do much the same thing safely < 1306888420 596507 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just looks like: printf ("foo " $$ str $$ " bar") "abc" < 1306888422 5975 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead < 1306888422 681363 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or e.g. < 1306888440 891753 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thought was that in a live coding environment the less typing you have to do the better. Also, being able to put everything in one line is a place. Anything besides string requires previous setup of some kind. If I can do that and have it not be a pain then I'll use that approach, but otherwise I am using strings and you will hate it. :P < 1306888442 416729 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf ("foo " $$ (int % pad0 9) $$ " bar") "abc" < 1306888444 706426 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1306888446 109315 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf ("foo " $$ (int % pad0 9) $$ " bar") 9 < 1306888447 823473 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1306888450 259810 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is easier to read anyway. < 1306888469 189942 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: then don't use haskell < 1306888480 115978 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: besides < 1306888483 67036 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: variables need initial values < 1306888486 190164 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what will you do? < 1306888497 5308 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :default all integers to 0 and lists to [] and the like with a typeclass? ahahaha < 1306888517 137593 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, no. The idea is that the names refer specifically to one type. a sound generator of some kind. < 1306888526 771794 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what initial value < 1306888539 894702 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever you set it to initially? < 1306888545 282293 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need to declare it? < 1306888551 728061 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you didn't want that which was why you were using strings. < 1306888612 264154 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wanted to use strings as names in, perhaps, a mutable map or something, instead of passing around IO refs. It's one option of many. < 1306888632 615319 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying that strings, apart from being totally type-unsafe and ugly and not even giving you any kind of error for using an undefined variable, < 1306888640 384995 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't absolve you of the need to initialise -- i.e. declare -- variables < 1306888682 740499 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but they save you effort in that they're effectively global throughout IO, without the need to pass around the reference. I'll probably end up using IORef if anything for mutable parameters. < 1306888688 877082 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man. For coming from the guy who brought us PulseAudio, systemd actually seems like a sane, intelligent design. < 1306888693 565685 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: it's not < 1306888695 544342 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking ini files < 1306888698 913993 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no sh < 1306888722 436042 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Are there any non-aesthetic complaints you have? < 1306888732 633542 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are technical complaints < 1306888738 101854 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ini files are terrible, especially the way it uses them < 1306888742 688980 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How so? < 1306888753 991837 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only reason it exists is because Poettering hates sh < 1306888772 19737 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if Lennart Poettering is behind it, you can basically assume it'll be horrible shit and also, that he'll be a jackass about it < 1306888799 756458 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC he responded to a criticism of -- was it systemd? -- at a presentation, by accusing the criticiser of hating disabled people :) < 1306888819 246059 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least how sh is used *currently* in init, sh seems to suck for the purpose. < 1306888831 950682 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a motherfucking *fuckton* of boilerplate. < 1306888839 933886 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when did i say that was a good idea < 1306888853 835623 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but his whole goal is "omg sh should never be called during boot" < 1306888860 357992 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seemed to say that "no sh" was a technical complaint against systemd. < 1306888875 556645 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, because it means you can't do tons of shit easily < 1306888876 254531 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never said < 1306888881 319903 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i want sh exactly like it is in current init omg" < 1306888906 649584 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, it's probably a good idea to also have a more flexible language in your init system. < 1306888915 930687 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By all means, make it so the common case is easily configurable. < 1306888917 970474 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Java. < 1306888922 332194 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: lol < 1306888932 998389 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all init should be in java. < 1306888938 144929 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you should make the easy bits easy and the hard bits possible. < 1306888938 420910 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: the people in #musl know more about systemd than me anyway, but i heard enough to make me dislike it < 1306888948 66713 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: going in to #musl to ask about systemd may not be a good idea :P) < 1306888949 637439 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than the easy bits easy and the hard bits akin to getting raped. < 1306888951 31497 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: so you're saying init should be in Perl? < 1306888965 61769 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No, no, just in *a* flexible language. < 1306888971 986293 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh is not terrible for the purpose. < 1306888985 516522 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can get rid of the pointless, irritating boilerplate. < 1306888994 837142 :Gregorzilla!~Gregor@nat/mozilla/x-tfjxxjvbqgqjypvj QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1306888998 978866 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is there any boilerplate in starting e.g. an httpd with sh < 1306889001 83936 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one line < 1306889012 597050 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody is advocating /etc/init.d here, that is a strawman < 1306889034 586269 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Obviously, the means of getting rid of boilerplate is not necessarily getting rid of sh. < 1306889047 20336 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no boilerplate to get rid of < 1306889057 277883 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's assuming we're all talking from the "systemv init" frame of reference < 1306889059 685844 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which guess what, we're not < 1306889076 767910 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just making it so that you literally don't have to stick the basic, barebones logic of the *entire* init system in the configuration files for it. < 1306889082 244245 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, I'm little murky on the differences between sh, bash, and dash. Can someone enlighten me? < 1306889087 512724 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I have been talking from a systemv init frame of reference. < 1306889096 127611 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's your problem < 1306889104 331820 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we talk from other frames of reference, there may well be little to no boilerplate. < 1306889113 619482 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: sh is too vague to define, be more specific; bash is GNU's shell < 1306889127 777385 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dash is the Debian Almquist shell < 1306889129 865076 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly, there's no boilerplate to: for /etc/services.d/*;do sh $i;done < 1306889139 70431 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, is sh just the name for the system's shell program, whatever it may be? < 1306889139 453149 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a descendent of NetBSD's version of the Almquist shell < 1306889155 49239 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yes. POSIX defines what sh has to be, but it's a rather minimal specification. < 1306889155 346844 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: The system's *Bourne-like* shell. < 1306889165 692702 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1306889181 905980 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: There's a few requirements on that beyond "it can spawn processes"... In practice, though, that means "any shell but csh and tcsh". < 1306889186 802042 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I notice when I "man sh" I get a page for dash, when originally I thought sh was bash on Ubuntu. < 1306889204 8413 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh is now dash on the Debian family distros. < 1306889214 789887 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there like, a huge difference I should note? < 1306889220 956415 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No. < 1306889228 581203 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you use bash's advanced features. < 1306889234 920229 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hint: You probably don't. Not in your scripts anyway.) < 1306889246 489499 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I doubt it. I don't even know what those are. < 1306889249 842410 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :((I mean really advanced, not "the advanced section of My First Bash Script".) < 1306889250 663279 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1306889280 262024 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, a barebones Bourne shell offers like 99% of what *anyone* uses in shell scripting. < 1306889290 764021 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the most obscure thing I've used so far is the ${foo%bar} thing < 1306889325 526665 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's Bourne, I'm pretty sure. < 1306889326 339260 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to rename a file extension < 1306889350 815814 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, bash > dash? < 1306889361 825157 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just... different? < 1306889369 625663 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some tiny ways. < 1306889378 54708 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dash is quicker and leaner for scripts < 1306889382 835970 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bash is a superset of the capabilities of the Bourne shell. < 1306889384 307043 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and using bash for scripts leads you into the trap of using bash-only features < 1306889387 816571 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes your scripts non-portable < 1306889392 685497 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: so is dash. < 1306889407 75187 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Oh, is it? Hmm. < 1306889414 513716 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: basically: obviously you don't want to use dash for interactive use. < 1306889424 465311 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you are writing scripts then dash will probably do you fine, and will produce more portable scripts. < 1306889429 85262 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i say probably < 1306889431 211437 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it really will do you fine < 1306889435 16132 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will not notice any difference < 1306889440 423466 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I'm using terminal in Ubuntu I'm using dash right? < 1306889446 764097 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1306889447 201306 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1306889455 574545 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaah, the language that dash supports is POSIX *and* a few BSD extensions. < 1306889456 66527 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well good. < 1306889478 935639 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ help < 1306889479 312565 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU bash, version 4.1.5(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) < 1306889491 721039 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which, being extensions that made their way into Korn, are essentially ubiquitous, anyways) < 1306889516 98380 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, thank you for the enlightenment. < 1306889535 782163 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Bourne shell itself, BTW, is basically the first UNIX shell that was reasonably useful for programming. < 1306889559 885682 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And replaced the Thompson shell in V7. < 1306889606 951381 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which itself was the first shell ever, and only really had pipes and file redirection. < 1306889687 815503 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. rc and mk were originally written for UNIX. < 1306889694 341898 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And part of V10. < 1306889696 559030 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1306889704 503737 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neat. < 1306889779 914829 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shame rc's not ubiquitous; it's got such a better language. < 1306889820 75702 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1306890050 23109 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?unpl (f . g) x < 1306890050 305701 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(f (g x)) < 1306890099 72498 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And would you look at that. Sabotage, that distro using musl as its libc, builds with mk. < 1306890274 695500 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it a heap of shell scripts mostly :) < 1306890292 69734 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric : /o/ < 1306890292 338764 :myndzi!myndzi@c-98-247-234-176.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :   | < 1306890292 644381 :myndzi!myndzi@c-98-247-234-176.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :  /< < 1306890303 550787 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric : \o/ < 1306890303 952022 :myndzi!myndzi@c-98-247-234-176.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :   | < 1306890304 318654 :myndzi!myndzi@c-98-247-234-176.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :  /'\ < 1306890308 973144 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Well, yes, probably. < 1306890316 286066 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :That ' in the middle looks suspicious. < 1306890328 295088 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't help but laugh when myndzi does that to Perl code. < 1306890338 79136 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, do you think CoffeeScript is a decent language? < 1306890646 275438 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Inquiry: what do you think is an actually decent init system? < 1306890653 278902 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if anything) < 1306890709 835129 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: @ :P < 1306890723 62835 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But uh, runit is pretty good. < 1306891110 950946 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, non-revolting use of sh. < 1306891185 969371 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306891399 142440 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-134.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1306891599 7752 :Mannerisk!~mannerisk@c-67-171-49-132.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306891632 627229 :Mannerisk!~mannerisk@c-67-171-49-132.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PART :#esoteric < 1306891652 391733 :jwest!ca24b344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.36.179.68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306891709 890693 :jwest!ca24b344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.36.179.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, could anyone give me an idea on how you'd, go backwards in the data list in brainfuck until a counter is 0? < 1306891722 195446 :jwest!ca24b344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.36.179.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure where else to ask < 1306891831 738192 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean like < 1306891835 941841 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :n=9 <<<<<<<<< < 1306891840 718341 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where n is in a cell? < 1306891854 814525 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. "repeat < the number of times as indicated in the current cell" < 1306891859 397988 :jwest!ca24b344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.36.179.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1306891862 945107 :jwest!ca24b344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.36.179.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but n being an input < 1306891864 980771 :jwest!ca24b344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.36.179.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not constant < 1306891880 853314 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not possible < 1306891884 491043 :jwest!ca24b344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.36.179.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... < 1306891887 923943 :jwest!ca24b344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.36.179.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kk < 1306891891 113186 :jwest!ca24b344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.36.179.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a shame < 1306891893 599305 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jwest: you may be interested in an array type solution < 1306891899 29849 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cells look like < 1306891907 12098 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 | element | 1 | element | 1 | element | 0 < 1306891911 418787 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :starting on the first one < 1306891912 307785 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do < 1306891913 201758 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[>>] < 1306891916 512596 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to seek to the end < 1306891917 959651 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and things like that < 1306891923 621346 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :making it very convenient to seek around, etc. < 1306891931 258651 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can use these "indicator" cells to pass around a counter < 1306891936 693862 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :letting you move N places in the array, etc. < 1306891949 857285 :jwest!ca24b344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.36.179.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1306891951 15785 :jwest!ca24b344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.36.179.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1306891981 393626 :jwest!ca24b344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.36.179.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i'll look into that < 1306892019 795517 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HU3XrGrDAZ4/TeVGS5sea-I/AAAAAAAAADk/r4hnr1X5YKQ/s1600/Netflix%2BPerformance%2Bon%2BTop%2BISPs%2B-%2BUSA.png This makes me sad. < 1306892024 871225 :jwest!ca24b344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.36.179.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks elliott_ < 1306892025 448278 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note the units on the graph. < 1306892055 254604 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jwest: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms is sometimes helpful < 1306892073 648671 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, the netfuck saga continues < 1306892089 607160 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he can write interpreters in qbasic and has developed simple chats over nullmodem :o < 1306892108 132426 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: ... Wut? < 1306892108 204645 :jwest!ca24b344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.36.179.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do the temp1 etc things in the example code mean? < 1306892144 952311 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jwest: see top of page < 1306892153 312815 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "I still don't get your problem. This is so petty and you search every error in my sentense to critisize me... I have already written a full functional interpreter in QBasic and developed simple chats over nullmodem, so I don't really see why NF should be so worse in your opinion. --87.165.166.97 00:34, 1 June 2011 (UTC)" < 1306892174 785459 :jwest!ca24b344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.36.179.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, sorry < 1306892178 396835 :jwest!ca24b344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.36.179.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for your help < 1306892184 550826 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jwest: :) < 1306892197 281633 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, link? < 1306892251 403199 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: talk:netfuck on the wiki < 1306892293 473001 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm. Maybe I should actually upload all my code somewhere again. < 1306892318 472267 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, link? < 1306892324 270745 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've failed to find it. < 1306892331 73310 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see recent changes, i have a headache and closed the tab < 1306892333 832240 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I have a VPS I'm doing nothing with that runs thttpd :P < 1306892345 252293 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: I am an unreliable person.) < 1306892351 824809 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ooh, do the NetFuck challenge and you'll get < 1306892353 159454 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FREE < 1306892353 758273 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AD-FREE < 1306892354 396766 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WEB < 1306892354 860280 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPACE < 1306892357 139404 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best prize < 1306892362 685505 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I was thinking more like one of those git hosting sites. < 1306892374 454936 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW BORING AND MODERN < 1306892391 20478 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, uh. < 1306892391 449223 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. < 1306892392 848433 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be nice to have dimensifuck up somewhere. < 1306892398 942828 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And PEBBLE and PFUCK. < 1306892402 46911 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is Brainfuck... with support for two IO channels? < 1306892403 755327 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I was going to go "GIT :( USE DARCS" but then I realised that the darcs hosting sites suck. < 1306892407 526147 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And other random snippets. < 1306892413 360738 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, darcsden is alright but it's... barebones. < 1306892428 979333 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm, it seems to have been made less barebones as of late, nice < 1306892556 320653 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opinions on git hosters? < 1306892597 882679 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If you're looking to be ais-style obnoxiously legalistic and principled about things, something that isn't GitHub. Otherwise, seriously, just use GitHub. < 1306892625 328000 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: What negatives exist at all? < 1306892677 535059 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Uhh... their terms of use once disallowed people to block ads on the site (note that GitHub has never even had ads, and this clause is now long-gone). Also, things like issues, the wiki system, and pull requests are "lock-in" features in that they're not implemented with any standard protocol and don't interoperate with non-GitHub sites. < 1306892688 779000 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the issue system requires JS. < 1306892702 165225 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's a well-designed, fast site with lots of good functionality, and it's incredibly popular /shrug < 1306892722 773318 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the inability to use the pull request system directly if the person who made the changes doesn't use GitHub is... not the biggest issue ever. < 1306892738 334886 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay, then I suppose GitHub, then. < 1306892746 612553 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GitHub is the only host which offers dynamic tarball downloads of the tip too I think, which is nice because you can link to them. < 1306892747 685587 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I don't like it, well, it's not hard to migrate elsewhere with git. < 1306892788 762145 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly, in my mcmap development I look at exactly two things on GitHub: < 1306892795 281466 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mcmap? < 1306892796 282581 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :- The commit list (and the commits themselves) < 1306892797 774340 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :- The issue tracker < 1306892800 686954 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Minecraft thing. < 1306892806 699600 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1306892834 209924 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Developed by fizzie; I wrote some parts. < 1306892851 775992 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Un momento; time to use ssh-agent again. < 1306892852 891881 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1306892891 301661 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306893169 760559 :jwest!ca24b344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.36.179.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, just one more question, does the fact that brainfuck is turing complete mean that anything written in another turing complete language can be written in brainfuck? I suspect not. < 1306893181 16951 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :jwest, it does. < 1306893203 385293 :jwest!ca24b344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.36.179.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1306893208 75131 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :jwest: That is *precisely* what Turing completeness means. < 1306893212 972864 :jwest!ca24b344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.36.179.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, good < 1306893216 967208 :jwest!ca24b344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.36.179.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just hard to believe < 1306893218 463158 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that Turning Complete only considers computational power. < 1306893228 780410 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things like IO, Networking, etc are not covered. < 1306893232 440787 :jwest!ca24b344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.36.179.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i should look it up and study it a bit < 1306893232 992781 :jwest!ca24b344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.36.179.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1306893270 986403 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :jwest, you could, for example, write an x86 emulator in Brainfuck. < 1306893274 884602 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :This has obvious implications. < 1306893399 632400 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :finding a well-documented low-level audio playback library in Haskell is proving difficult. < 1306893405 750672 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-136-53.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere. < 1306893421 237721 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :portaudio < 1306893428 102941 :jwest!ca24b344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.36.179.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh, kk < 1306893437 145369 :jwest!ca24b344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.36.179.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: does the 30000 byte limit stop this at all? < 1306893446 5460 :jwest!ca24b344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.36.179.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming that is taken as necessary) < 1306893456 98499 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: perfect :) < 1306893457 203783 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :jwest, yes. < 1306893463 7173 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turning Complete, assuming infinite memory. < 1306893467 828777 :jwest!ca24b344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.36.179.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah kk < 1306893484 826201 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually. < 1306893494 426061 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the C spec break down with infinite memory, and infinite word size? < 1306893554 891204 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :break down in what way? < 1306893633 694486 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume the only problem the C spec would have with infinite memory would be addressing it all. With infinite word size, that wouldn't be a problem. < 1306893676 816341 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinitely long typecasts would be a problem < 1306893693 218003 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. < 1306893696 609821 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :With infinite word size... < 1306893698 747704 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is sizeof(int) < 1306893747 54391 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: presumably infinity. < 1306893749 990640 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :If everything is infinitely large then sizeof() is useless < 1306893768 50215 :jwest!ca24b344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.36.179.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i gotta go, thanks for the help and interesting info, see ya < 1306893771 876894 :jwest!ca24b344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.36.179.68 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1306893802 260781 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, but what would sizeof(int) return? < 1306893808 220511 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :All ones? < 1306893839 738465 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you express negative numbers? The most infinite bit is set to 1? But infinity has no last bit < 1306893859 142960 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't use twos compartment. < 1306893871 917826 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could use sign and magnitude, right? < 1306893882 61082 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :malloc(sizeof(int)) would return the starting address of the infinite memory you just allocated in your infinite memory heap... which I'm pretty sure wouldn't terminate. < 1306893882 479994 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sign could be first, sure < 1306893907 54374 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then again, I don't really know how malloc works. < 1306893907 194638 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would infinite memory C be a Deathstation 9000? < 1306893934 840291 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, wait. < 1306893943 361666 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :C with infinite memory is possible, provided you address memory with bignums. However, infinite word size makes things difficult, it seems. < 1306893946 382308 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about the various undefined interactions? < 1306893957 512493 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :undefined behavior, etc. < 1306894074 697298 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are you going to make this work with the guarantee that you are able to touch every bit in memory, e.g. chars are consecutive and leave nothing out < 1306894111 47766 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really understand what you mean exactly. < 1306894117 131674 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me or lymia < 1306894122 621640 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you < 1306894176 32938 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, well. you could have a floating point addressing scheme. < 1306894186 963192 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think I understand what you mean now) < 1306894195 816979 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me see if I can find it < 1306894264 907602 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm I don't know where it is, but I know that the C programming language guarantees that chars are consecutive and allow you to touch every bit of memory < 1306894267 672260 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ptr+1 points to the next char in the string, and all of the bytes of the infinite width char are represented as decimal points (but then they become uncountable, which is another problem I think) < 1306894274 915754 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you reconcile this with words being infinitely large? < 1306894284 664027 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't make sense to have an infinity after an infinity, I guess < 1306894290 175511 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it does. < 1306894302 377517 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how the real numbers work < 1306894329 778270 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmm. What else should go up? < 1306894346 677302 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Question is. < 1306894352 125157 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does C break down when you do crap like that? < 1306894429 392765 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I address memory in smaller than infinitely large chunks, e.g. 8 bit chunks? < 1306894444 522055 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, what is the address of the 8 bit chunk at the start of the third infinitely large chunk? < 1306894449 208561 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes. as it currently stands, I think every implementation of C would not be able to handle infinite memory. Especially considering that no physical computer can do that. < 1306894478 863308 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1306894521 177140 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. < 1306894528 173784 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basic question is, does the C spec hold up under infinity. < 1306894535 122234 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, I dunno. < 1306894544 640278 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :The word size is infinitely large, right? < 1306894621 83065 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to have infinite memory and word size, the cardinality of our set of memory addresses has to equal that of the real numbers. For finite word size and infinite memory, that would be the same cardinality as the natural numbers. < 1306894693 244775 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically, if you ask "what's the second bit in the fourth word of our computer memory", there is no answer... < 1306894709 600522 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be like asking, what's the next real number after 4? < 1306894720 895909 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think) < 1306894739 344919 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guh. < 1306894741 299411 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brain hurt. < 1306894748 200569 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay, a few bits of code are now up on git. Whooo. < 1306894758 695735 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, github. XD < 1306894825 805989 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: but, let's assuming you have a arithmetic processing unit that can handle addition of infinite words. Then you don't need to reference those bits individually, you just have your miraculous device perform basic arithmetic for you. < 1306894857 488701 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to get the next word in memory, you just say char_ptr+1 < 1306894931 585771 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/pikhq A handful of things. < 1306894934 759698 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because you can refer to consecutive words, you can make assertions such as "an integer is 4 words long" < 1306894994 468505 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sizeof(int) would simply be 4 words. < 1306895020 96410 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which malloc can happily allocate, most likely. < 1306895050 385866 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with its magic algorithm, operating on magical infinite-sized words. < 1306895056 705876 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what do I do if I want to reference memory in smaller chunks than a word < 1306895057 955226 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't? < 1306895061 71577 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I wouldn't really need to < 1306895063 823231 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really no < 1306895066 229059 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, no need. < 1306895067 389163 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I needed byte arithmetic I can fake it with modulus < 1306895073 553537 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my copmuter is apparently infinitely fast now < 1306895094 593338 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how it would be possible for bitwise operations, including arithmetic, to ever terminate on an infinite word, however. < 1306895201 474428 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, to contain infinite memory I think a computer would need to occupy infinite space. < 1306895245 249336 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you have an infinitely large ALU with infinite circuitry to handle infinite bytes, etc... < 1306895282 937447 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we don't have to worry about "terminating" in the algorithmic sense because we have an endless supply of physical space to simultaneously move electrons around. < 1306895408 638817 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...though I can't imagine what that adder circuit would look like. You'd need a "..." in the schematic. < 1306895480 575420 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, of course, an infinite schematic. :P < 1306895705 710950 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's enough speculation for me tonight... < 1306896223 289760 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the first time in ages, I actually have a place to shove code at. < 1306896234 707971 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay. < 1306896242 331971 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1306896557 918398 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/pikhq/pebble Anyone give a fuck? < 1306896562 667606 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1306896564 988998 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't think so. < 1306896617 168972 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not familiar with what that is. < 1306896643 721535 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh but look, a language spec. < 1306896751 205683 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1306896767 305032 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something I wrote back in 2006 through 2007, due to boredom with classes in high schoo. < 1306896776 611159 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so it's a high level brainfuck of sorts? < 1306896786 107042 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Macro language for Brainfuck, rather. < 1306896804 354101 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It directly targets Brainfuck. < 1306896847 153256 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so lastloc is for debugging? < 1306896874 158010 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1306896884 28183 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1306896948 33378 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so whatever happened to giving brainfuck better IO capabilities? < 1306896970 846372 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck that shit. < 1306896988 254821 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, bash is brainfucks advanced IO platform? :D < 1306897045 602627 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is cool though. It's like a high-level assembler for BF. :) < 1306897075 611515 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it was pretty fun to write. < 1306897088 820685 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you mix brainfuck code into the language? < 1306897096 601014 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/pikhq/pfuck You might be interested in this. < 1306897109 165974 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You *could*, but it'd break on non-Brainfuck backends. < 1306897133 69164 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, what do you mean? < 1306897145 314109 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1306897151 64841 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not intended to be used only for BF? < 1306897177 493484 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also has a C backend, and an interpreter. < 1306897187 817803 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1306897234 36626 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like pebble because I could write complex code, compile it, and then claim I wrote it all in brainfuck. < 1306897237 74721 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1306897309 438232 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, does PSOX count for your better IO capabilities purposes? < 1306897358 536802 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure.. < 1306897371 805330 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still never really learned how it worked. < 1306899389 233291 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1306899437 316173 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306899802 803540 :comex!comex@c-98-210-197-113.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1306901919 255391 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1306902123 455587 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Wait. < 1306902123 527739 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric : With infinite word size... < 1306902123 527923 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric : What is sizeof(int) < 1306902128 290313 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've been over this a thousand times < 1306902130 364338 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Lymia: presumably infinity. < 1306902137 489626 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinity is not a valid value for size_t in any C system < 1306902140 402424 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1306902141 654569 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sizeof must return a size_t < 1306902146 35937 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, be typed as < 1306902149 171833 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no "returning" < 1306902158 906921 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Patashu, but what would sizeof(int) return? < 1306902161 591519 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it cannot < 1306902175 363503 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: but you can have char be a bignum < 1306902178 780415 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then sizeof everything is one < 1306902205 538537 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's what we ended up deciding on < 1306902206 975008 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric : So. < 1306902207 149509 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Basic question is, does the C spec hold up under infinity. < 1306902208 345387 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1306902210 773819 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :The minimum word size is (infinity) < 1306902216 223466 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :This somehow works < 1306902222 123089 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im mostly skipping all of this since its a rehash of a discussion we've had about a hundredtimes < 1306902249 349837 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and note that you can't have a hosted (= with stdlib) C with bignum char < 1306902250 984472 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of CHAR_BIT < 1306902266 793960 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha < 1306902290 734069 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but file IO lets you be tc < 1306902304 717963 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because ftell and the like are explicitly allowed to just fail if you're too far in to the file to represent in an int < 1306902317 384579 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can just have an infinite disk < 1306902318 317586 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :voila < 1306902334 630106 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, so what do you do in C for managing files over 4GB < 1306902351 793757 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a start, you still use a thirty-two bit computer? < 1306902357 346322 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right < 1306902358 35650 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :My bad < 1306902364 75983 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a second, it's actually two gigs (int is signed) < 1306902370 945739 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a third, you keep track of your own file position :P < 1306902379 27727 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a bignum or whatever. < 1306902505 769018 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't things like int defined by word size though? So sizeof(int) would be the same number of words as before. < 1306902521 775098 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1306902536 249831 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no < 1306902540 492615 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No, things like int simply must be a multiple of char sized. < 1306902547 742828 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sizeof(t) is equal to the number of chars you need to store a t, basically < 1306902566 189058 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is absolutely, positively no guarantee that an int is a system word. < 1306902596 721996 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, there is at least one system in common use where int isn't a system word. < 1306902611 592076 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86_64 < 1306902612 836642 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On most x86_64 system, sizeof(int) is 4. < 1306902623 128236 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sizeof(void*), however, is 8. < 1306902637 296906 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :On most 64-bit systems, sizeof(int) is 4, as otherwise there aren't enough type names to cover 1, 2 and 4 :P < 1306902872 797158 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy june < 1306902904 762939 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I should specify. On most x86_64 systems, sizeof(void*) is 4. < 1306902948 625217 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a set of toolchain patches floating around to give you x86_64 with 32-bit pointers as an ABI on a Linux system. < 1306902983 720562 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme see if I can find it again... < 1306903062 116246 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://sites.google.com/site/x32abi/ Thar we go. < 1306903126 481708 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a silly abi :) < 1306903147 495968 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get the extra registers without the extra pointer overhead < 1306903155 599072 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh noes overhead < 1306903156 781402 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're short on memory, it's not bad < 1306903166 939449 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you also don't have to deal with the pesky additional address space <:) < 1306903167 848341 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very noticeable in certain haskell code I run often < 1306903179 277406 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: in my case, I have 4G of RAM < 1306903179 350337 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah but haskell is really pointer-heavy < 1306903186 184991 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because of []'s unfortunate ubiquity < 1306903186 289895 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my program was getting killed at 3G for allocating more than that < 1306903191 836520 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I recompiled it with the 64-bit GHC < 1306903202 581647 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saving space on pointers can really help with cache. < 1306903207 601009 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now it swaps and exceeds 4 and doesn't terminate in any reasonable amount of time < 1306903220 555055 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: not cause of lists < 1306903230 150371 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :just cause of enormous terms in memory < 1306903233 148122 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: to be fair, in that case your only recourse without changing the program is to buy more ram :P < 1306903241 589848 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: macbook air! yay < 1306903250 523825 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: macbook air sbuddies /hifive < 1306903254 476455 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shittiest laptop ever < 1306903256 254414 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :;D < 1306903262 315079 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it a lot < 1306903276 227095 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's nice... apart from the fact that the fan is ridiculously noisy and goes on whenever you do anything < 1306903285 494981 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also the terrible linux support although that isn't really apple's fault :) < 1306903293 437483 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :the new one or the old one? < 1306903294 800848 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the BREAKING NUMBER KEYS, that's the worst feature imo < 1306903296 25692 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause my fan is quiet < 1306903302 367563 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: it's the newest of the new. < 1306903310 282851 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that fan just sucks? < 1306903315 287619 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine isn't noisy at all < 1306903316 477595 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: I have really obnoxious standards for fan noise. < 1306903335 402564 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't argue with that, then < 1306903340 238111 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't sound "broken" or anything, but it's a lot louder than the fan on my previous laptop < 1306903347 105527 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which was, admittedly, an ULV processor < 1306903349 185802 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it's great < 1306903362 271956 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably is great if you use OS X :) < 1306903366 154497 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: There should be at least *some* better support in Linux 3.0. < 1306903374 885125 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I thought it had no new features :) < 1306903406 505804 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Bug workarounds are not new features. :P < 1306903465 253002 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Really, I got it because (a) the specifications are quite decently above what I had before and (b) it's not a fragile plastic piece of crap like [insert large PC manufacturer here] < 1306903477 145203 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they still made ThinkPads like they used to, the choice would have been obvious :) < 1306903514 343486 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There wouldn't have been a choice, really. < 1306903587 611689 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1306903615 440254 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :people say apple is a a cult :P < 1306903649 79777 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to be an Apple fanboy but they were too crap, whoops < 1306903680 46348 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just mean to say that thinkpad-of-olde worshippers aren't much better :P < 1306903718 684443 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: At least with ThinkPads the reputation is well-deserved >:) < 1306903726 902380 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHHHH SNAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP ok that wasn't actually much of a snap < 1306903738 32990 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION washes hands < 1306903745 41604 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really care that much, just commenting :) < 1306903749 316748 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :impossible ive caught you in my snap now < 1306903763 324452 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/PC110 best thinkpad < 1306903766 733087 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weight 1.3 lbs (630g) < 1306903769 157120 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AHEAD OF THE TIME < 1306904737 369594 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1306905187 802719 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1306905633 94779 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In true academic style they define the problem and exhaustively test its parameters. Let's just build something quick and hacky that usually works :)" < 1306905635 967434 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahaha < 1306905654 434334 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are advice dog derivatives dead yet? can we make Terrible Programmer? < 1306905662 611914 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIND DETAILED PAPER ON THING YOU'RE TRYING TO IMPLEMENT < 1306905662 918841 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1306905664 481796 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO CARES < 1306905997 761272 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no they're not dead. < 1306906053 332588 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1306906059 382776 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: really? damn < 1306906119 775315 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I don't see why they need to be dead in order for you to do that. < 1306906181 344265 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no i'd just like them to be dead because they are terrible < 1306906185 976864 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:10:17 hm maybe this is the trick < 1306906196 818934 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know some of Courage Wolf is good. < 1306906252 275647 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait that was right, or... < 1306906260 195720 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1306906311 423073 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:12:28 actually using 0 is a bad idea... < 1306906311 495906 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:12:33 because it will stop people using $ < 1306906325 274558 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed that annoyed me about parsec's < 1306906351 247454 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, in this case (a := b) would never be a function, so $ would not be so useful :) < 1306906359 938209 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even that _could_ have worked well if they had switched the arguments of ) < 1306906404 460261 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (0$0 ) -- is it in lambdabot? < 1306906405 83108 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `' < 1306906436 683721 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (0$0 Text.Parsec.) -- is it in lambdabot? < 1306906437 313715 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't find qualified module. < 1306906449 347666 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (0$0 Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec.) -- is it in lambdabot? < 1306906449 975584 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : The operator `Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec.Prim.' [infix 0] of a section < 1306906450 48749 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : must have lower precedence than that of the operand, < 1306906450 48941 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : namely `$' [infixr 0] < 1306906451 108323 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (0$0 Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec.) < 1306906451 724611 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : The operator `Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec.Prim.' [infix 0] of a section < 1306906451 797325 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : must have lower precedence than that of the operand, < 1306906451 894445 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : namely `$' [infixr 0] < 1306906453 333826 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hifive < 1306906498 707666 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :infixr 0 and switched arguments, and it would have mixed well with $ < 1306906572 999266 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I chose the thinkpad < 1306906598 510228 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: there's no way i'm buying a thinkpad since about the time they went widescreen < 1306906611 156080 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they related? < 1306906616 323874 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:13:13 "name" := someUngodlyFunction $ someUngodlyParameters ... < 1306906619 818401 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:13:28 replace the := with something else < 1306906627 98907 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well, I am not the biggest fan of widescreen formats, but no, that isn't the /reason/ < 1306906636 412754 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that was about the time when Lenovo started making new models of their own, though < 1306906645 58557 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too would also have worked with infixr 0, although := is a constructor not a function < 1306906652 857174 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isn't like "zomg chinese maek bad computar" or anything, they're just not as well-designed or constructed IMO < 1306906688 269388 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: fair < 1306906701 560253 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're still, in my opinion, some of the better constructed ones out there < 1306906704 52389 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they have mouse nibs < 1306906719 652643 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, they're one of the better-constructed ones, yeah, I just have a pretty low tolerance for this stuff < 1306906729 274462 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1306906751 586827 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT DID YOU DO TO HER < 1306906764 652658 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mwahaha < 1306906785 873801 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO. NOT. WANT. < 1306906813 790869 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its hould be illegal to type wrods < 1306906816 974600 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:15:13 Is Haskell's printf type-safe? I mean, it type-checks just fine, but < 1306906817 820765 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :siduscsss < 1306906820 75610 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i answered < 1306906820 320694 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:15:53 Sgeo: no < 1306906822 193201 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't answer < 1306906833 239818 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that an answer via quote :D < 1306906846 220755 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um it was your answer < 1306906851 397701 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is afair wrong < 1306906859 301937 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's correct < 1306906861 649535 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you have a strange definition of type-safe < 1306906885 190979 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude Text.Printf> :t printf "%d" "abc" < 1306906885 350190 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf "%d" "abc" :: PrintfType t => t < 1306906885 422999 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude Text.Printf> printf "%d" "abc" < 1306906885 423072 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** Exception: Printf.printf: bad argument < 1306906891 589687 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not type-safe in the way sgeo means < 1306906896 758244 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as he says, "it type-checks just fine" < 1306906900 243396 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does not ensure type-/safety/ < 1306906909 105122 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right the type-checking is dynamic < 1306906911 388921 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is easy to commit a type error that is only caught at runtime < 1306906918 641764 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means it's not a type-safe method of doing formatted printing < 1306906967 153136 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should write an ``industrial-strength'' library for the kind I described later, I think Oleg's even done it :P < 1306906977 860453 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be easy and distract me from the horrors I've been coding lately < 1306907196 618176 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: which reminds me, programming in haskell's type system is essentially dynamic typed >:) < 1306907203 865478 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ally < 1306907210 432840 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed, although if you do < 1306907218 527270 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :class (Result r) => Blah a b r | ... < 1306907225 335662 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it does some "compile-time" checking < 1306907229 567903 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think you can apply it to the arguments too < 1306907232 278666 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you can't say < 1306907233 911050 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. < 1306907235 139982 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine < 1306907239 611593 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :class (Foo r) => Blah a r | a -> r < 1306907240 822435 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't say < 1306907247 557524 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Blah (SpecialThing r) r < 1306907248 952160 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to say < 1306907251 732069 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (Foo r) => Blah (SpecialThing r) r < 1306907259 707154 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you recurse it's all ok and works out < 1306907259 950062 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1306907262 897382 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is some sort of typing < 1306907264 562667 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's kind of weak < 1306907269 694204 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1306907272 752978 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, it is essentially dynamically typed < 1306907318 405594 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there ducks? < 1306907348 70069 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pair of them < 1306907388 815355 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ducks are telling me to go to sleep, they are standing here and saying it < 1306907389 910782 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha < 1306907390 934918 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly ducks < 1306907392 511780 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do THEY know < 1306907406 607797 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just glad I'm not a 3 oz. bag anymore. < 1306907424 541383 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I digested so it's all harmonized now. < 1306907462 19668 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :your all doing really badly at telling me to go to bed < 1306907562 645199 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isn't my all. < 1306907573 441242 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think he's offended now. < 1306907778 508199 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :offended effendi < 1306907799 993807 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha < 1306907800 468655 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you < 1306907800 959809 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fell < 1306907801 352395 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in < 1306907801 757682 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to < 1306907802 52533 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my < 1306907803 169171 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :trap < 1306907808 187278 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :youre falling was delightful < 1306907893 451 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1306907923 813786 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a cold but is out of iced coffee :( < 1306907937 754970 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read as "is cold" < 1306907938 475184 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1306907941 39223 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICED COFFEE WARMS MY SOUL < 1306907963 894863 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine too < 1306907966 705704 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a glass of wine, and it is pleasant. < 1306907973 436147 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kind of want a http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/PC110 now as shitty as it is :D < 1306907975 562998 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: insert trolling < 1306908141 94185 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just tried to ?tell someone something < 1306908142 418747 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip lambdabot < 1306908145 690908 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1306908150 485413 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION crying < 1306908216 364096 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan doesn't appreciate my pain < 1306908222 145933 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hes insensitive and bad < 1306908286 958522 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has a runny nose < 1306908293 392245 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is a a bad person < 1306908317 116757 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, memoserv < 1306908324 445285 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not loggged in < 1306908329 330976 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.writemypapers.org/examples-and-samples/essay-about-friendship.html oh googling keyboard bashes is productive... this really amuses me < 1306908329 762808 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was < 1306908332 102798 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this written by a human?? < 1306908344 987048 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I got used to believe that friendship is an everlasting phenomenon and it is truly forever. I stick to the opinion, that true friendship is never-ending. Life is unpredictable and we never know what may happen tomorrow. I’ve a lot of friends but only few of them are real. We’ve gone through many difficulties together and now my heart is aching at the thought that we are living in different countr < 1306908345 96816 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ies because of life circumstances." < 1306908347 558742 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't... sound real < 1306908374 816901 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan non-human did you write this . . . < 1306908389 216411 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: why the heck don't you register elliott_. or change nick. < 1306908397 853670 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if i changed nick < 1306908401 794088 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :id have to type the password for elliott < 1306908404 884883 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which < 1306908407 680597 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :involves a number < 1306908412 230582 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which involves googling that number to copy it........ < 1306908420 862587 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :: ( < 1306908445 545805 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i log in, freenode remembers i logged in even if i change my nick < 1306908477 83577 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :change your password or fix your keyboard < 1306908495 931864 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess the initial automated login won't work if i'm not on one my nicks < 1306908542 554406 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :Kallisti < 1306908548 388283 :Kallisti!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :CakeProphet < 1306908548 570199 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my automated login works even when I'm not on one of my nicks. I'm too lazy to do it properly, though; maybe it wouldn't work, then < 1306908572 958369 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-MemoServ- You are not logged in. < 1306908575 693162 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :;p[lsordf09gj < 1306908579 30224 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well log in < 1306908581 427405 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats my opinoin on swastikas < 1306908586 854609 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Recentchanges < 1306908587 319268 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Recentchanges < 1306908588 321037 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah < 1306908589 757187 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Requested Range Not Satisfiable < 1306908598 844381 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what range < 1306908604 781775 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Recentchanges < 1306908609 680491 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :works fine for me < 1306908623 49397 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too in fx < 1306908623 954840 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:Ian/LARSA_Interpreter < 1306908630 815879 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quality wiki comments from Maharba < 1306908817 409934 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :your moms vast range is also not satisfiable. < 1306908844 367050 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :range corporations < 1306908848 462776 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dfgjofhoifgivnigfjioinogvj fpoohignkjbcfiovncixodnvbjidb fnjhfb nvjhbnjhb uiob uib huib hu < 1306908856 314398 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im badass cuz i type without words < 1306908860 355663 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i call it avant typing < 1306908874 106734 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so step one in signal processing... < 1306908890 827416 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no please everybody, please, back off, i cannot serve you all at once < 1306908890 925421 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a sane base structure that can represent any kind of time varying signal. < 1306908895 88169 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my awesomeness is rate-limited < 1306908900 725676 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: flavours of frp... < 1306908907 262150 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: but um, (Time -> Value) IS A PRETTY GOOD STRUCTURE < 1306908914 953127 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :time can be a double or just any member of fractional or whatever < 1306908922 458497 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that's what I was going to do. < 1306908936 716270 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean come on, a sine wave... what's sin... oh yeah a function over the reals :) < 1306908937 415305 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then have derived structures for things like repeating patterns by specifying some kind of period or something. < 1306908968 845496 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it may be unecessary.. actually. < 1306908976 739716 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+n < 1306909007 144094 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also should probably carry around some information about samplerate. < 1306909047 771817 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:NetFuck oh god this is great < 1306909056 358561 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hes so upset with our insults < 1306909067 615107 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: HE HAS A DEGREE IN COMPUTER SCIENCE < 1306909071 433224 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: HE HAS WRITTEN A QBASIC CHAT CLIENT < 1306909073 631158 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND HE HAS < 1306909073 922320 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh but wait, if I just specify time -> value then I don't really need to worry about sample rate because all sample rate will do is vary the input numbers... < 1306909075 426936 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AD-FREE < 1306909075 910039 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WEB < 1306909076 300967 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPACE < 1306909077 97057 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TO OFFER < 1306909082 801124 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yeah < 1306909109 671464 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It would be nice if you could use rationals as time for that extra imaginary "precision" and slowness, but < 1306909109 743330 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... that's pretty much it. < 1306909110 327721 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t sin < 1306909113 948205 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1306909115 241824 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot is gone < 1306909120 694217 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude> :t sin < 1306909120 873411 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sin :: Floating a => a -> a < 1306909126 54588 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: So I'd pretty much just fix it to Double < 1306909139 510870 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: hmm, samples are actually fractional too, aren't they? < 1306909146 514871 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes they can be. < 1306909149 647085 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just map a certain range to N bits to actually quantise it < 1306909151 363226 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... yes they are. :P < 1306909154 892725 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you just have (Double -> Double) < 1306909156 935642 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is nice < 1306909174 183772 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but not everything is a double necessarily. < 1306909176 785382 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe for time. < 1306909192 190079 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Well, you want to be able to use sin, right? < 1306909197 743572 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sin :: Floating a => a -> a < 1306909201 376366 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, Double -> Double is the usual case. < 1306909202 853601 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rationals aren't an instance of Floating < 1306909206 324697 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I dunno what else you would use < 1306909224 540116 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, for example, if you just have an on/off signal controlling some sample, then that would be Double -> Bool < 1306909234 570218 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ah, but that wouldn't be a signal itself < 1306909246 496253 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1306909248 402322 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or Double -> Double if you just have the result wave as the amplitude, 0 for off, 1 for full) < 1306909284 174513 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the Double result would be [0,one] right? < 1306909297 146198 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Bool is just it restricted to 0 and 1 :P < 1306909310 55280 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the case of a volume on/off signal, yes. < 1306909328 831736 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Erm, in the case of a sample result too, no? < 1306909352 914616 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sixteen-bit or whatever is just a way of mapping a reduced range of [0,1] to some bits < 1306909354 672778 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes. You could have a [0,1] trigger a sample when it's non-zero, or one, or however you want to do it. < 1306909361 903271 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1306909364 185889 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you understand < 1306909365 737976 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean samples themselves < 1306909371 41423 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right. :P < 1306909371 332199 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the volume on/off signal < 1306909372 374248 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actual audio < 1306909386 29102 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.... erm. < 1306909387 494090 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey nice, scaling is < 1306909389 307802 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scale scl f x = f x * scl x < 1306909394 55010 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just make Signal an instance of Num < 1306909397 326761 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you normalize it, then yes it would be [0,1] < 1306909412 29624 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: wouldn't you want to do that, so that programs would be sample size independent? :) < 1306909422 243197 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, to prevent aliasing. < 1306909498 906061 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what worries me conceptually about Double -> Double without a sample rating is that it cannot be serialized in a reasonable time... < 1306909506 587344 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a sampler trigger though multiplying by an on-off signal isn't enough. You would want a True event to trigger the sample to play at that point in time. < 1306909513 5275 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: http://sprunge.us/jNQZ < 1306909521 655139 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, a trigger is different < 1306909526 52064 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not really related to signals < 1306909533 753496 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it, can be. :D < 1306909539 887662 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um yes it does < 1306909541 628800 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :csound does shit like that, if I recall. < 1306909552 158681 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: for N khz, just call with sequential values at appropriate precision < 1306909557 666779 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scale the resulting doubles to your sample size < 1306909558 454654 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1306909573 149084 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: um that's setting a sample rate in order to serialize, surely? < 1306909576 442897 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well yes < 1306909578 479080 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else do you expect? < 1306909588 366351 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1306909591 1192 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what you would prefer, nothing else would be this flexible < 1306909593 981941 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or this pure :P < 1306909607 756840 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it is kind of like saying the Fran (Coords -> Colour) images are not serialisable in that sense < 1306909613 435440 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not, but that's where their power comes from < 1306909621 557606 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you want the "serialisation"... it's the program's source < 1306909647 860917 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.. I don't really see why it would be a problem to ignore sample rate until you actually want digital audio. < 1306909729 629129 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... -ahem- I might end up mucking all of this purity up in IO. < 1306909734 300667 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll see. < 1306909740 746034 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? there is no reason for a signal to have an IO result type < 1306909750 100202 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is terrible, ruins the entire thing, and is completely pointless :) < 1306909795 117709 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not entirely. Let's say I'm modulating a sound generator with parameters that I want to be able to mutate later on, anywhere else. < 1306909806 823658 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :IORefs, essentially. < 1306909809 966596 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but that is an _environment_ thing < 1306909821 6603 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you really want the "performance" file format to be something else entirely < 1306909824 887257 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like yaxu's emacs mode stuff < 1306909876 113708 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to wait until I get there I guess. I agree it's best to keep a least the basic processing units pure. < 1306909893 168290 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then a more complex "synthesizer" could mess around with IORefs and IO in general. < 1306909898 7869 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do, whatever the hell it needs to do. < 1306909950 868300 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm tempted to mess around with this now < 1306909954 162774 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :already did the image version < 1306909979 259931 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'll be starting sometime tomorrow maybe. < 1306909989 889367 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, who cares about _your_ code < 1306909996 588509 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I took like 8 mg of melatonin so I should be passing out soon. It's only 2:33 AM here though.. < 1306910008 459537 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: my code will be awesome you don't even KNOW. < 1306910012 475132 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 mg?!?!?!?!?!?! < 1306910019 617644 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1306910027 490523 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: If you're using IO and not interacting with the outside world, you're doing it wrong. < 1306910037 55203 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a rather insanely excessive dose, dude < 1306910044 123674 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also pikhq is right, if you just want references you want ST < 1306910047 576246 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, hi! < 1306910049 353613 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and STRefs < 1306910056 837479 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the topic is now you taking way too much melatonin < 1306910058 985579 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hi, i'm going to bed < 1306910069 936334 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh :( < 1306910075 557051 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Argh < 1306910077 796724 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what < 1306910078 622901 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well, in the future having both mutable references and interaction with the outside world would be a benefit, so, IO I'd say. < 1306910086 532447 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: BEAT BEAT BEAT < 1306910090 237655 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: DON'T BE STUPID < 1306910095 871444 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: my professional opinion is that you don't know what the hell you're talking about :) < 1306910108 408488 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...uh, okay. < 1306910116 135709 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I finished the last exam before the summer holidays. Now it is time to turn my focus towards 1) driving exam 2) ordering that computer < 1306910117 624917 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Haskell, good style involves IO being minimal. < 1306910121 211655 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY CODE WILL THEREFORE BE BETTER NIH TIME < 1306910123 775474 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ideally, 1 line of code. < 1306910124 979922 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, :) < 1306910134 569595 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: try driving a lot, driving is great < 1306910138 464526 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I know all about that. You seem to think I'm just going to fill my code with IO now. < 1306910142 117749 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :computers are terrible they crash and break a lot < 1306910144 509360 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not what I intend. < 1306910148 539664 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you're proposing putting every signal into io :) < 1306910148 970322 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, haha < 1306910157 981576 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: when do cars break? nevre. < 1306910160 378638 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :never. < 1306910177 342813 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: To a Haskellian, you are. < 1306910185 329244 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, hm I should invite you to planet Earth sometime < 1306910186 276236 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"haskellian" < 1306910188 149072 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :please stop talking < 1306910192 533841 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it sounds shit < 1306910192 707492 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be fun to see your reaction < 1306910197 837179 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes, it is. < 1306910202 982067 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps I should sleep. < 1306910207 731089 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1306910211 472364 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what time is it there pikhq < 1306910219 2548 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :T00:37 < 1306910226 977171 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for clarifying with that t < 1306910232 635699 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: no, I propose putting IO around the code that operates on signals. I think that's a bit more reasonable, since, you know, they have to play audio and stuff. And maybe pull data from websites or files, etc. < 1306910234 597845 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, wait what, you are still awake? < 1306910238 646202 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :id assume you meant the zeroth day of the thirty-seventh month otherwise < 1306910252 823888 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no this is just an illusion < 1306910254 730176 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wake up < 1306910255 775071 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAKE UP < 1306910256 710023 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: NO, NO, NO THEY DO NOT. < 1306910257 593891 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh okay < 1306910262 983632 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, carry on then. < 1306910279 478427 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hey you don't know what I plan to do. < 1306910289 416582 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: To play audio, you take the output from them and then interact with it in IO. < 1306910294 745142 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct. < 1306910305 910198 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need your signals to be IN IO for that. < 1306910307 779017 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail to see how we're talking about different things. < 1306910310 983921 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not what I said. < 1306910312 323296 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just need your signals to be pure functions. < 1306910315 838944 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES IT IS. < 1306910323 874037 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's not what you mean, say what you mean, please. < 1306910325 389391 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF YOU TALK ANGRILY IN CAPS THAT FUCKWIT WILL LISTEN TO YOU. < 1306910326 781107 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAAAAAAAAAAAARGH < 1306910333 962336 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I said what I mean, see above. < 1306910344 962348 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, then you claim what you said isn't what you said. < 1306910348 561485 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please, elucidate. < 1306910351 716590 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1306910353 450210 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone shut up < 1306910355 12615 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as prime minister < 1306910356 682790 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of thsi channel < 1306910358 603664 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the very most recent lines of text. my attention span is somewhat short since I'm drugged and all. :P < 1306910360 310218 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im declaring a ten minute silence < 1306910366 605765 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no more talking starting from now < 1306910369 483731 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :offenders will be murdered < 1306910400 848861 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you broke it yourself :P < 1306910405 562618 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have infinite health. < 1306910406 874450 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: goodbye < 1306910410 289117 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: rip < 1306910431 104584 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cannot defeat me, I have Single Player Commands! < 1306910443 517564 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you fucking suicidal you idiot youre going to die < 1306910448 891821 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1306910467 360724 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, this should give you plenty of time to research computer components! < 1306910479 69164 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: why would i make a computer for a dead man < 1306910480 243532 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :get real < 1306910500 831424 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: be rational < 1306910503 695615 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well, since when did that stop anyone? Just look at discworld < 1306910507 542860 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ARE YOU ALL < 1306910508 351795 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCKING < 1306910509 250831 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDIOTS < 1306910515 556078 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM GOING TO FUCKING RIP OUT YOUR SKULLS < 1306910518 817866 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERYONE < 1306910519 339854 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WILL < 1306910520 20704 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PERISH < 1306910527 541477 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!simpleacro < 1306910527 617133 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU WILL HAVE TO FUCKING CODE IN NETFUCK < 1306910529 430 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR THE REST < 1306910530 433570 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OF YOUR FUCKING < 1306910531 528522 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIVES < 1306910532 656336 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHICH WILL END < 1306910533 685450 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​QM < 1306910533 899129 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SWIFTLY < 1306910536 252459 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT THE AFTERLIFE TOO < 1306910539 696669 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot: SHUT < 1306910541 127909 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE < 1306910541 603507 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK < 1306910543 664459 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :UP < 1306910550 380512 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM TAKING CONTROL OF THIS CHANNEL < 1306910551 604912 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you yourself spoke during this period of silence. < 1306910558 362143 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'M ABOVE THE FUCKING LAW. < 1306910558 614097 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to kill yourself. < 1306910567 630905 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 TOPIC #esoteric :TRANSITIONARY MILITARY GOVERNMENT | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1306910569 943906 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure why elliott is screaming at me right now. < 1306910577 842783 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: TALKING IS DISALLOWED < 1306910582 877381 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS A TEN MINUTE SILENCE < 1306910583 538279 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :k. < 1306910590 508056 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, I think it is because he is sleep deprived. < 1306910593 591443 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE LOUDEST TEN MINUTE SILENCE EVER THANKS TO ME < 1306910599 991684 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, you're all just being really stupid right now. < 1306910608 877015 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm still awake for various complicated reasons < 1306910613 911921 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that mostly involve time management < 1306910617 92168 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway im going to go to bed < 1306910622 798672 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you < 1306910624 816859 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1306910639 850186 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :we will fill the log for you to read when you wake up < 1306910640 821107 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :talk < 1306910643 391795 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i will kill you all < 1306910686 658112 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, the supreme court find that this period of silence is unconstitutional! < 1306910693 634440 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so anyways, perhaps I explained poorly, but I wasn't suggesting that the signal generators themselves have anything to do with IO, just the code that uses it for whatever nefarious purpose. < 1306910699 192796 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ahem < 1306910711 153555 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1306910734 920966 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you're making lambdabot cry in heaven. < 1306910755 59648 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yo < 1306910786 218423 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: If they do IO, they should be in IO. < 1306910793 185913 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they do not do IO, they should not be. < 1306910798 917746 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I REIMPOSE THE SILENCE < 1306910808 447014 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok right its like < 1306910809 652141 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this time when < 1306910811 509994 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i close the laptop < 1306910813 600536 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all the stupid people < 1306910814 617504 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1306910815 87869 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :disappear < 1306910817 403699 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats a really good time < 1306910820 468134 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its going to happen now < 1306910823 185106 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you feel it about to happen < 1306910823 272933 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya < 1306910824 745994 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its happening < 1306910826 891748 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.8 QUIT :Quit: now < 1306910831 485659 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew < 1306910917 565574 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's not count our chickens before they hatch; if you say something sufficiently outrageous, it's possible he'll be log-snooping and rejoining just to reply. < 1306910927 695678 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1306910932 520282 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1306910945 629035 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets see... < 1306910962 757344 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about this one: Haskell would be better with side-effects. < 1306910978 334665 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my aliens have run amuck. Good night. < 1306910982 882086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, cya < 1306910997 481995 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, doesn't seem to have worked. Oh well. < 1306911034 338707 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In other news, http://users.ics.tkk.fi/htkallas/prague-congress-hall.jpg < 1306911072 948253 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm needs some vertical control lines < 1306911079 653938 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, otherwise: nice < 1306911089 863500 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a bit of parallax problems in the chairs nearby, but that's just to be expected. < 1306911091 92793 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err... s/otherwise/other than that/ < 1306911119 451153 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, adding some vertical lines on wall features would help a lot < 1306911147 686786 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1306911150 611743 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; I'll try that when at home some point. < 1306911162 342895 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh where are you now? < 1306911179 410775 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :At work; it's almost 10am already here. < 1306911187 698023 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1306911214 44464 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, weird they added an extra chair there, there isn't any lack of free seats < 1306911238 302803 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The guy in the chair has a video camera on a tripod in front of him; not very clear from the picture. < 1306911238 449708 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, is he recording the thing? < 1306911241 286409 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1306911241 514349 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1306911260 991630 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They showed the speaker video on that smaller (rightmost) screen. < 1306911267 857177 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And probably archived it somewhere too. < 1306911277 946791 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and what is the thin vertical screen for? < 1306911309 114082 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's just a lit-up painted piece of cloth/paper with the conference logo fixed on it. < 1306911318 354038 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that we wouldn't forget where we were. < 1306911319 727143 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1306911323 510125 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1306911366 229802 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ever played ultima 7? < 1306911404 587191 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried it out a few days ago... Interesting. Though the interface is annoying to say the least. < 1306911407 444515 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very little; some moments with exult, that's all. < 1306911414 738485 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes I used exult too < 1306911737 736431 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, lyx has an option "--without-included-boost" < 1306911740 629313 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :this scares me < 1306911761 972513 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that anyone would embed a copy of boost that is. < 1306911788 901463 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that one site about craziness in Ultima 7; e.g. http://www.it-he.org/ultima7.htm#gambling < 1306911805 786862 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's an unfortunately messy page.) < 1306911839 282074 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... *Embed a copy of Boost*? < 1306911842 727093 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus that's scary. < 1306911859 38223 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, in the source yes... < 1306911884 621044 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is fucking scary. < 1306911895 559867 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/src/lyx/lyx-2.0.0 $ du -sh boost/ < 1306911895 775107 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :15M boost/ < 1306911906 833810 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the whole thing I guess < 1306911909 660605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1306911998 41998 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :KKK counterprotesting Westboro Baptist. < 1306912009 766823 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a second.... < 1306912017 606490 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, aren't they roughly on the same side? < 1306912026 463530 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not quite. < 1306912031 356653 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh? < 1306912039 246651 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Westboro Baptist is convinced that America is horribly evil. < 1306912046 920140 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The KKK is hypernationalist. < 1306912064 310176 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Westboro Baptist protests the military quite extensively. < 1306912069 399862 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which the KKK considers almost holy. < 1306912097 781341 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1306912125 644187 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know you're bad when a hate group is protesting your hate. :P < 1306912131 693379 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1306912208 622085 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how to get data out a RAID-1ed disk of a shut down computer with just one external hd cabinet. Without declaring one disk failed first that is < 1306912225 518546 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm only interested in read access... I wonder if it is possible < 1306912226 84536 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1306912245 144076 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAID-1? Uh, just treat it like a single drive. < 1306912266 542298 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes well it is mdraid < 1306912281 765175 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I doubt linux will be all that happy to mount it without both disks accessible < 1306912300 171036 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just mount it directly. < 1306912310 642933 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously. < 1306912316 158343 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how? some device mapper thingy to skip the mdraid metadata block at the start? < 1306912326 229907 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, was it at the end < 1306912364 769471 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides it is lvm2 on top of mdraid, and blindly ignoring the metadata block there sounds... dangerous... < 1306912428 299209 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you going to write to it? < 1306912433 360090 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, nope < 1306912442 918183 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then there is nothing that can possibly go wrong. < 1306912482 670769 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what about the metadata block for mdraid? Won't you need to somehow map it out < 1306912513 653682 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm mdadm has --run to assemble it seems < 1306912517 150973 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :might do what I need < 1306912562 148840 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, just start the RAID up. It'll work just fine off a single disk, since it *is* RAID-1. < 1306912562 560879 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, wrong mode < 1306912577 851503 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes but when I put these back together, won't it complain hm < 1306912594 814058 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, even if I mount read only I'm not sure lvm will not touch anything < 1306912622 627854 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :LVM will only touch things if you directly modify things. < 1306912639 247512 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, by creating a new volume. < 1306912657 939953 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so no updating of last timestamps in metadata blocks or such? < 1306912681 352672 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no timestamps in the LVM metadata. < 1306912689 890753 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah good < 1306912702 693080 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well if this doesn't work I know who to blame :P < 1306912705 2461 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor any means of updating the LVM metadata without directly executing one of the LVM utils, for that matter. < 1306912743 861315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well I will need to execute vgscan and vgchange to detect and enable/disable the vg < 1306912784 838078 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, those only read, so... < 1306912811 821845 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1306912866 537292 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what use this screwdriver is... the flat head is less than a mm wide < 1306912887 695250 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :marked as 0.6 mm wide < 1306912951 666567 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :for driving 0.6mm screws, of course < 1306912988 21251 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The metadata block's at the end of the disk, so you can use it "directly" too; it's just that the default lvm.conf sets md_component_detection = 1, so it will ignore partitions that have md superblocks in order to not be confused when it sees the same physical volume three (or more) times. < 1306912988 662381 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, yeah but come on, even the screws on glasses aren't that small. They are usually 1 mm < 1306913002 776922 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1306913010 143067 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, that's nice and sane. < 1306913024 835088 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, was that sarcastic? < 1306913029 237229 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nope. < 1306913035 699717 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1306913069 470593 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense with how LVM literally scans all attached volumes for LVM physical volumes... < 1306913124 403640 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoying... I need to remove the AGP card to be able to get the hdd out. Sigh < 1306913164 304628 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes you wonder how they managed to fit those huge old ISA cards... < 1306913225 275168 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you could use an IBM XT in lieu of cinderblocks. < 1306913234 242296 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1306913299 284823 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to be extra careful, mdadm has a --readonly command that you can use to mark an array read-only, before running any LVM ops. < 1306913343 175193 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The md superblock has a timestamp, but as far as I know it isn't touched unless you do a write request on the array. < 1306913349 967262 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1306913710 631157 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1306913782 714891 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1306913784 794571 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fuck? < 1306913816 555782 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if this external cabinet handles large disks correctly < 1306914094 237705 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay it works now < 1306914095 423502 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1306915501 630900 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, another thing that annoys me with Ultima 7: The font. < 1306915510 586563 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it looks all nice. But it *is* hard to read. < 1306915528 956838 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd much rather have a boring sans-serif < 1306915696 927444 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-2-67.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306916491 841758 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did cdparanoia decide to rip at 1x < 1306916533 660183 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes the experience more authentic. < 1306916573 623286 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, sometimes it rip at 8x < 1306916585 649248 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't understand how it decides what speed to use < 1306916689 772011 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering the cd is almost full this is indeed annoying < 1306917492 558722 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-149-216.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306917504 114827 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-202.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1306917806 651152 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1306919996 448948 :Lymia_!~moe@123.120.136.9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306920000 585083 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1306920002 515725 :Lymia_!~moe@123.120.136.9 NICK :Lymia < 1306920006 735412 :Lymia!~moe@123.120.136.9 QUIT :Changing host < 1306920006 808216 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1306921302 131182 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306921881 147440 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo. < 1306921884 949690 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, he is not here. < 1306921887 59188 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott. < 1306921889 520862 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is also not here. < 1306921890 737796 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit. < 1306921909 271461 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who am I meant to discuss the Homestuck update with? < 1306921926 862922 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION remembers that he has an exam in a couple of hours with the guy in his school who reads it. < 1306922014 40997 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, good luck. Yesterday I finished my last exam for a while. < 1306922022 874250 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well apart from the driving one in a few weeks < 1306922040 632933 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot imagine you failing to drivve. < 1306922042 474560 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*drive < 1306922067 325582 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is exactly the kind of boring procedural thing you do with an air of infuriating smugness. < 1306922070 99411 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh? Well I heard that Sweden have amongst the hardest driving exams in the world < 1306922099 359021 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're taking the exam in a few weeks and all you have is international gossip to go on? < 1306922118 422602 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait have you seen today's Homestuck update. < 1306922126 832804 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well I think I will manage it. The theoretical part should not pose any issue. < 1306922132 168293 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no. < 1306922167 942632 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: new album out. < 1306922177 106359 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Album*s*. < 1306922211 245356 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, atm I'm playing Ultima VII. My main issue with that game is that the font used for dialogs and so seems to be "Old English" or such. < 1306922217 434586 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather hard to read anyway < 1306922237 603979 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Olde English < 1306922249 445824 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_ will verify that this is the correct spelling. < 1306922275 625914 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, are you sure how that typeface is spelled? < 1306922292 885806 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that is the name of the language. < 1306922295 77273 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, because iirc the typeface I'm referring to is named "Old English" < 1306922305 795473 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I'm referring to the typeface, not the language < 1306922315 807784 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're spelling it wrong. < 1306922323 709999 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe. < 1306922336 399096 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my god this album is so good. < 1306922358 692314 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh and some signs use god damn runes. And no this isn't just a case of your character doing a lore check like in D&D to decode it... The manual has a mapping table < 1306922363 944718 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest... is up to you. < 1306922395 998607 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh and it uses "thou" and so on instead of "you". The language is fake Olde English. < 1306922464 393532 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, example of the typeface: http://www.it-he.org/u7/u7_bpot2.gif < 1306922484 593170 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-2-67.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1306922513 777792 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :while it looks great.... it is harder to read. If it was just the occasional bit of text it wouldn't matter. But every single in game text is either that sort of font, or runes. < 1306922970 682083 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/hnzwx/til_that_a_majority_of_biologists_believe_earth/c1wxejf < 1306922994 105398 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is getting confusing. < 1306923318 160036 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard the same gossip w.r.t. the US/UK driver's license tests, in the sense that the UK is notably more difficult. I don't really know where other countries fall in that spectrum. < 1306923344 620115 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least failing it is not considered especially surprising in Finland; though on the other hand passing it on the first try isn't particularly rare either. < 1306923394 503758 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sounds like Sweden there < 1306923400 116607 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the impression from people at my school doing the test isn't one of insurmountable difficulty, but I wasn't really paying attention to the people taking it. < 1306923442 579045 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Do you have night-driving/winter-driving sessions in the training part? < 1306923473 7570 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the latter at least. And you get the former during winter automatically :P < 1306923500 263982 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :We do it in a special track when it's summer. < 1306923510 733531 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, the latter we do on a special track. < 1306923515 942988 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1306923536 755416 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I did it during autumn. They put some bio-degradable oil on the track to simulate slippery surface. < 1306923555 542832 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what they used here, some sort of liquid anyway. < 1306923674 322483 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah, over here when the roads get slippery we smear them with salt and act like it's unusual. < 1306923696 115588 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well, over here that isn't realistic :P < 1306923696 652379 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There was grit on the path in front of my school until well into spring.) < 1306923709 851359 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :grit? Not sand? < 1306923727 41117 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1306923779 318768 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The particles are larger, and there's a lot of salt in it. < 1306923787 149396 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well we do put sand, and salt on roads. Well salt mostly on the highways and other large roads. < 1306923797 259424 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing they use for "sanding" (which is what it's called if you just translate literally) is quite a coarse mixture too. < 1306923815 393903 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's just an arbitrary choice. < 1306923820 930452 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://homestuck.bandcamp.com/track/lifdoff < 1306923824 319095 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, where do you live? < 1306923827 71013 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never looked closely of what it is made of, but it is called "sanda" in Swedish, so I assumed it was indeed sand < 1306923827 353281 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my god this needs to be used. < 1306923829 391739 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, Finland. < 1306923833 985310 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Land of fins. < 1306923834 596454 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, lowers the freezing tempature, right? < 1306923836 875326 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, and Sweden for me < 1306923840 747999 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :salt lowers* < 1306923846 670468 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, yes. < 1306923854 144750 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1306923859 536367 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not nearly enough though < 1306923865 558360 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it stops working below -15 C or so < 1306923888 944116 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did I accidentally omit a subjcet? < 1306923890 277162 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it -20 C? < 1306923891 282840 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :subject* < 1306923894 54620 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. anyway < 1306923897 87393 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although according to WP CaCl_2 is preferred since it dissolves exothermically. < 1306923927 743024 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1306923956 873555 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"While salt was once a scarce commodity in history, industrialized production has now made salt plentiful. Approximately 51% of world output is now used by cold countries to de-ice roads in winter, both in grit bins and spread by winter service vehicles." <-- heh, 51%... that is quite a bit < 1306924010 331387 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks Japanese is getting to her brain, even though she doesn't really know that much < 1306924014 626926 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guh. What's with my k key. < 1306924041 791752 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to WP it's -21°C theoretically, although you can practically go down to -22°. < 1306924050 39117 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1306924058 220458 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you make it go lower with other chemicals? < 1306924064 55803 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1306924064 201865 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Antifreeze? < 1306924068 47604 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that is unusual. Often the theoretically limit is further out than the practical one! < 1306924090 552546 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, antifreeze is toxic as hell though. < 1306924094 644494 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, you mean like glycol? < 1306924098 405054 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And difficult to acquire in large quantities. < 1306924118 693543 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :While salt... I think we get it mostly from a mine in Ireland here. < 1306924130 385644 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yeah you don't need much. < 1306924207 642362 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I mean, aren't there palms in south UK iirc. Not native, but as far as I heard, they survive along the south coast in some places. < 1306924211 802193 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if this is true < 1306924377 963967 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, btw, they do use antifreeze on runways sometimes. And on the outside of planes < 1306924405 81447 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically ethylene glycol < 1306924418 852478 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, if antifreeze doesn't work, wood + fire will. < 1306924425 341828 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe not. < 1306924434 706934 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, where do /you/ live? < 1306924452 286552 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere hot probably < 1306924462 548747 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that idea is outright silly for deicing roads. < 1306924518 428017 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, it's a joke. < 1306924523 251770 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1306924541 540495 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Burning stuff on the roads is never a good idea, don't you think? < 1306924542 584327 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know. < 1306924546 409221 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because roads are near houses. < 1306924563 173862 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, only sometimes. Most of the time roads are next to forests rather < 1306924577 687681 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's better? < 1306924581 55302 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, plus of course it would block the road for non-fireproof cars < 1306924592 520561 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, screw that. < 1306924595 390313 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :All cars should be fireproof. < 1306924596 308135 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, yes, quickly defrosts a large area. There might be side effects < 1306924603 454517 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as wildfires < 1306924639 230293 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I doubt wildfires are likely during winter. The snow would melt ant quickly put it out. < 1306924649 254695 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :If fire doesn't work, use bombers. < 1306924658 771194 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, how would that help? < 1306924662 792979 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :napalm? < 1306924664 836643 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :By blowing up the ice. < 1306924667 703321 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doh. < 1306924670 232274 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1306924674 108749 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explosions always, help, right. < 1306924678 698489 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :always help* < 1306924682 936076 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh.. the road being damaged? < 1306924688 326718 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Acceptable collateral damage. < 1306924701 443537 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, what when the ice is the road though? < 1306924723 882057 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, we have some lake roads during winter when the ice is thick enough to drive a car on. < 1306924740 684484 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Finland have a few of those too < 1306924834 360883 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, apply napalm. < 1306924850 884544 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, that would make the road non-functional :P < 1306924953 605397 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, well. < 1306924954 927261 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who cares. < 1306924957 901092 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :The goal is deicing, right? < 1306924972 634882 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm this one looks like it is in bad condition... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ice_road_saimaa.JPG < 1306924998 629641 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. < 1306925006 660909 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :People actually use shortcuts like that often? < 1306925019 60452 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, the solution to that is a sander. < 1306925019 537975 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1306925021 551882 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, mostly they go to islands that have ferry services during summer. < 1306925036 452860 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :So during winter... < 1306925047 49846 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, I heard they use hovercrafts during the periods neither cars nor boats can pass them. < 1306925057 14045 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, coolest school bus ever. < 1306925060 617820 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hovercraft that is) < 1306925064 684394 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technology to the rescue.. < 1306925073 851784 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't they use hovercrafts when boats work? < 1306925095 440865 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean, even during the periods when cars work? < 1306925112 315539 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :expensive I think < 1306925119 455170 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, no. < 1306925124 321914 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even during the periods when the boats work. < 1306925140 429 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much more expensive is it? < 1306925149 879627 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, more expensive. Besides I don't we have many gigantic hovercrafts in Sweden. While there are quite a lot of ships. < 1306925169 291980 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are always the ubiquitous yellow public service free ferries. < 1306925289 246386 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Why don't they use hovercrafts when boats work? < 1306925298 836683 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, expense. < 1306925299 720418 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, typical Swedish ferry: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fil:MSFredrika.jpg < 1306925316 143070 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to run the fans on the bottom, and they can't be very fuel-efficient. < 1306925342 901211 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I know for a fact that they use hovercraft for schoolbus service during the period neither boats nor cars work on an island some 30-40 km from here. < 1306925351 800279 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although we did have one going across the Firth of Forth for 12 days, apparently. < 1306925390 665114 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is odder still, since there are not one but two perfectly functional bridges going across it already at about the same place. < 1306925393 811968 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, for 12 days? Not a long term investment there < 1306925446 311829 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, OK, it cut out a large U-turn between Portobello and Kirkaldy, so it was probably faster.) < 1306925452 89293 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, experiment. < 1306925463 4481 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fil:By%C3%A4lvan1.JPG< < 1306925465 177086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1306925466 738052 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Daiichi? < 1306926195 69500 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also does "Kayak across the Pacific Ocean" twice; first to Hawaii, then from there on. < 1306926204 237939 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, gah you beat me to that. < 1306926247 827261 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it doesn't seem to follow great-circle paths though hm < 1306926277 187873 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume they've added single ferry-line style "kayak across" links there. < 1306926284 258415 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1306926287 844071 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of being able to just kayak everywhere. < 1306926294 727648 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, dunno. < 1306926298 510359 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't route me from Anchorage, Alaska to Japan at all. < 1306926302 841042 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I was a programmer, I would add in code for that just for the lulz. < 1306926314 852750 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cacluate a few roads of minimum kayak distance. < 1306926316 775641 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Route to them. < 1306926323 938481 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add paths. < 1306926326 881028 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, since it doesn't go from SF directly out, but first up to Seattle, I think you are right < 1306926347 978979 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also doesn't route you through the Bering Strait at all. < 1306926351 975075 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=sv&geocode=FVJmQAIdKAe0-CkhAGkAbZqFgDH_rXbwZxNQSg%3BFRCUIAIduoZTCCnnVy7whxtdYDGJG1cii2EBLg&q=San+Francisco,+Kalifornien,+USA+till+Tokyo,+Japan&aq=&sll=37.714245,-122.500305&sspn=0.646385,1.466675&ie=UTF8&ll=47.6468,-122.341089&spn=0.017203,0.045834&z=15&saddr=San+Francisco,+Kalifornien,+USA&daddr=Tokyo,+Japan < 1306926354 114822 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice loop < 1306926401 752623 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You sometimes get ridiculous-looking walking directions since it considers taking a ferry "walking", and those don't count in the distance. I think I had a screenshot and/or link somewhere. < 1306926459 758221 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait it suggested water scooter from Japan to china!! < 1306926472 127323 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I thought there was some third one like that. < 1306926496 801319 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/google-walk.png -- from Copenhagen to Amsterdam, the best way to walk is via two cities in Norway and one in the UK. < 1306926507 968391 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :D < 1306926525 841787 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least you'll see the sights. < 1306926547 334337 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, did you actually want those walking directions= < 1306926549 829067 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/ < 1306926572 819193 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted train routes, but it didn't do trains at that point. < 1306926573 404285 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does Google not have a warning asking "are you sure you want walking directions?" < 1306926580 767450 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, does it now? < 1306926584 944348 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The driving directions were a better approximation, though. < 1306926618 86468 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does public transit, but only in a very limited set of locations. < 1306926622 50167 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your search for transit directions from Copenhagen, Denmark to Amsterdam, Netherlands appears to be outside our current coverage area. Please consult our list of participating public transit agencies." < 1306926649 141954 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1306926673 115029 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it only does intra-city public transportation, mostly. < 1306926681 251388 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1306926717 530536 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helsinki and Oslo have "transit layer" maps, but no schedules; nothing in Sweden. < 1306926869 118556 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "transit layer" for Helsinki seems pretty pointless, too. From what I can tell, it has our single subway line, and then a map of the tram network but not even the routes designated, just the tracks in single color. < 1306926891 763731 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1306926910 206948 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, if you zoom in enough it shows the tram stops too. < 1306926915 277491 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the tooltips are in Japanese. < 1306926921 44343 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what?! < 1306926938 21854 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, link? < 1306926951 735292 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if that's because the first thing I did this session was the driving directions from Nagoya, Japan to the US. < 1306926957 251415 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it remembers that. < 1306926984 381086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be... < 1306927009 866117 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&hl=en&mra=ls&noexp=0&noal=0&sort=def&sll=51.628248,-0.241699&sspn=1.239506,2.458191&ie=UTF8&ll=60.161593,24.945188&spn=0.007762,0.019205&z=16&lci=transit_comp&start=0 < 1306927022 766928 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that should open Helsinki and the transit layer too after a moment. < 1306927039 804595 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanse busstop tooltips for me yea < 1306927041 118551 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah* < 1306927044 447258 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1306927047 920133 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the weird. < 1306927059 791081 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opening them gives the proper (Finnish) name of the stop, as well as list of trams that stop there. < 1306927071 169119 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, report the bug? < 1306927118 758482 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1306927126 331545 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :One tooltip is with the Cyrillic alphabet. < 1306927132 901166 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :One's in Finnish. < 1306927181 416238 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too amusing to report. < 1306927198 776731 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, cyrillic too? heh < 1306927235 237005 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306927258 74024 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, wikipedia says there is an ice road in mainland US < 1306927269 395211 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Lake Superior. < 1306927334 432053 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What an egoistic name for a lake. < 1306927337 458405 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at least two in Alaska < 1306927344 82139 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, it's better than all the other lakes, huh? < 1306927366 731338 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Superior#Name < 1306927376 877484 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :short answer: yes < 1306927384 91915 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least that is the reason for the name < 1306927512 971738 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly it's quite big. < 1306927524 266650 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like three times the surface area of the Gulf of Finland; and something like 20% of the Baltic Sea. < 1306927532 924712 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1306927536 361858 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :To put it in more familiar context as seen from this end of the world. < 1306927566 154374 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1306927638 363416 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(18.7 times the size of the largest lake in Finland.) < 1306927747 609672 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Lake Superior is the largest freshwater lake in the world by surface area" < 1306927751 267422 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1306927757 304825 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it isn't a misleading name. < 1306927794 378103 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1306927912 810387 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not the size of the lake, it's... uh, how you... use it? Anyway. It's still a pompous name. < 1306928133 107757 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1306928163 973224 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306928174 781771 :cheater_!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-27-247.vodafone-net.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1306928180 986864 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why _shouldn't_ I randomly lose my Internet connection? < 1306928187 369424 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, what about volume? < 1306928194 566785 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. < 1306928200 433372 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :How deep is it? < 1306928204 77077 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue < 1306928214 570099 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Water volume 2,900 cu mi (12,000 km3)" < 1306928215 456165 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, besides you can't model a lake as a rectangular box. < 1306928219 40822 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wigibedia knows. < 1306928225 598213 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like a bit rounded figure. < 1306928240 101705 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, slipped on the keyboard? < 1306928259 481699 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, no, but it is a good estimation. < 1306928264 504171 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as they provide average depth. < 1306928290 317065 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, isn't average depth*surface area equal to the total volume < 1306928291 153905 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1306928319 298813 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, how do you define average depth? sampling lots of points on a regular grid and taking the mean value? < 1306928342 201047 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Integrating over the lake, obviously. < 1306928363 526126 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm... was that a joke? < 1306928369 229690 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, I was talking more mathematically, but that works as an approximation, I guess. < 1306928393 3138 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's funny; the Lake Superior article is inconsistent. In the intro paragraph it says "It is the second largest freshwater lake in the world by surface area, after Lake Michigan-Huron (which though traditionally considered two lakes is hydrologically one lake),[2][3][4] and is the world's third-largest freshwater lake by volume.[5]"; while inside the article it says: "Lake Superior is the largest freshwater lake in the world by surface area, and empties into < 1306928393 182735 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lake Huron via the St. Marys River and the Soo Locks. Lake Baikal in Russia is larger by volume, as is Lake Tanganyika." < 1306928411 566247 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1306928456 952636 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :By surface area vs volume. < 1306928465 838883 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, even so they manage to confuse that < 1306928474 526703 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if I want to go 1D and compare them by perimeter < 1306928502 476215 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "by volume" part is consistent -- "third largest" and lists two larger ones in the article itself. < 1306928517 127804 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, you have a fractal issue then < 1306928525 470247 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the "by surface area" part is not; it can't be both the second largest and the largest by surface area. < 1306928547 542351 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which though traditionally considered two lakes is hydrologically one lake) < 1306928550 724052 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. < 1306928619 773484 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The data table has a "Shore length is not a well-defined measure" footnote for the perimeter, though it does list a number there. < 1306928622 88086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, basically depending on if you follow the contour of every stone along the lake's edge or measure it as a number of straight line segments of longer length you will get different results. < 1306928637 940953 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, the latter is what measuring it on a map would give you < 1306928641 891865 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the joke < 1306928723 676195 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it is if you give the algorithm used for it. Say, the perimeter of inscribed polygon that encloses the largest surface area where the length of each polygonal segment is 10 meters. < 1306928734 980306 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *think* that should be well defined < 1306928741 564653 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how useful it is is another matter < 1306928781 599510 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and you should be able to give upper and lower bound by listing the same value but with minimal area and the lake inscribed in the polygon < 1306928802 314848 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how tricky this would be to calculate though... < 1306928841 988661 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wouldn't give you an upper bound for the perimeter. < 1306928851 835919 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1306928855 388387 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't < 1306928860 279173 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :would just give me lower bounds < 1306928871 949258 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have a lower bound by taking the straight-line segments of any arbitrary subset of points on the boundary. < 1306928903 329740 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The exact boundary gets a bit ambiguous down there, though; especially if you have rivers that flow in/out the lake. < 1306928910 529150 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :people would argue lividly about which length for polygon segments should be used, because they want their lake to be longer < 1306928912 757792 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, true < 1306928913 516587 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's a problem for the surface area/volume measures too.) < 1306928925 899812 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, well sure 1 cm works fine < 1306928938 666892 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you lower it to 1mm my country's lake will be bigger than yours < 1306928942 119430 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I want that spot in the record books < 1306928952 437871 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we get tourism for 'lake with the biggest perimeter in the world' < 1306928962 911034 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :not catchy but we'll work on it < 1306928964 788884 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, all lakes would have to use the same length for the values to be comparable < 1306928965 614716 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Lake with the least amount of sense". < 1306928987 470892 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I'm saying is that lake X might have perimeter > Y for 1 cm, but the opposite might be true for 1mm < 1306928996 72349 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, upper bound isn't infinite though, is it? After all the universe is not infinitely dividable < 1306928997 915072 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. if you remeasured both this way < 1306929011 994793 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1306929022 901992 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, they are only lower bounds though < 1306929048 807064 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's probably even harder to say where exactly the boundary of the lake goes when you start shuffling single particles, I would assume. < 1306929166 841493 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1306929244 244345 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweden has the third largest lake in Europe, and the 29th in the world. http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A4nern It is unclear if it is volume or surface area. < 1306929316 385654 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surface area is my guess; it's the most usual measurement. < 1306929349 912800 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our Saimaa is the fourth largest; a bit less than 80% of Vänern. < 1306929353 407642 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says it is Sweden's largest lake both when it comes to surface and when it comes to volume < 1306929358 556026 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Fourth largest in Europe.) < 1306929368 515349 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(80% of surface area.) < 1306929374 778895 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(More clarifications.) < 1306929417 901218 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it seems the top two lakes in Sweden get the same ordering for volume and for surface < 1306929433 572062 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your lake is more single-blob-ish[1] though. [1] Single-blob-ish is not a well-defined measure. < 1306929449 25906 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :link to photo of your one from above < 1306929451 784986 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or map < 1306929457 816998 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GreaterSaimaa.gif < 1306929462 982672 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a highlighted satellite photo. < 1306929483 213026 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that looks like two ones at least < 1306929491 930473 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure they are connected there in the middle? < 1306929503 654532 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Officially it's one. < 1306929507 357524 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1306929536 989308 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's connected, though the connections are pretty narrow at points. < 1306929554 101466 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Most of the lake is spotted with islands, and narrow canals divide the lake in many parts, each having their own names (major basins include Suur-Saimaa, Orivesi, Puruvesi, Haukivesi, Yövesi, Pihlajavesi, and Pyhäselkä)." < 1306929569 405404 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, this one is tricky, it is connected (through central Stockholm) to the sea: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A4laren < 1306929614 844573 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is fresh water however < 1306929623 750150 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Finland is known as The Land of the Thousand Lakes, (actually there are 187,888 lakes in Finland, of which 60,000 are large),[7] and the U.S. state of Minnesota is known as The Land of Ten Thousand Lakes. The license plates of the Canadian province of Manitoba used to claim 100,000 lakes[8] as one-upmanship on Minnesota, whose license plates boast of its 10,000 lakes.[9]" < 1306929631 2201 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone wants a piece of the "most lakes" action. < 1306929646 190070 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is "large" well defined there? < 1306929691 168522 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a rather arbitrary threshold that's often used; it's not mentioned there, but maybe [7] itself mentions it. < 1306929732 79130 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, [7] just links to the front page of Statistics Finland, the national institution of statistics and stuff. < 1306929750 506710 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I've heard that number earlier; can't recall what constituted "large" there. < 1306929754 113360 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, check the link, maybe they moved things around and it redirects everything to the front page < 1306929755 827211 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that happens < 1306929776 976614 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, it's directly to /index_en.html in the Wiki side too. < 1306929781 335031 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1306929796 470289 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm an image that is 24,576×24,576 pixels. I don't think I will open that one in a browser < 1306929797 9851 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Lake page does already talk of the vagueness between lake and pond, though. < 1306929911 887597 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake#Notable_lakes sorts by coastline length too, without mentioning how it was measured. < 1306929919 414203 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I told you guys that there was big money in lakes < 1306929930 190971 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Lake Manitou, located on Manitoulin Island, is the largest lake on an island in a freshwater lake." < 1306929944 468901 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about the largest lake on an island in a lake on an island in a freshwater lake? < 1306929953 836427 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that even possible? < 1306929956 315832 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I guess it is < 1306929971 908940 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except to have an island with a lake on it wouldn't it then be surrounded by a -sea- < 1306929982 105462 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1306930037 68782 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1306930059 505535 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that depends on the definition; many would insist on saline water for seas. < 1306930100 596379 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, that's true < 1306930137 996440 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about semi-saline ones? < 1306930142 711257 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's at least one recursive island -- an island in a lake (probably pretty small one) on an island, which in this case I think is in the sea -- somewhere here nearby, though I've forgotten where. < 1306930150 349376 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's either a "lea" or a "sake". < 1306930159 612766 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, not really.) < 1306930164 4195 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1306930203 700551 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.toddstadler.com/entry/711 -- related. < 1306930212 70871 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the same Manitoulin island mentioned above. < 1306930292 232109 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, recursive islands? < 1306930326 940421 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun < 1306930379 189582 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, that's cool < 1306930380 831938 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I submit < 1306930541 348175 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google's zoomed-in satellite photo of Suvisaaristo (a group of islands near the cost here) is... subpar: http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=60.102339,24.711342&spn=0.124411,0.307274&t=h&z=12 < 1306930562 817760 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, just clouds? < 1306930588 574317 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; if you zoom one level out it uses a different, cloudless photo. < 1306930615 450441 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the difference between continents and islands < 1306930638 48359 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know australia is a continent and greenland an island < 1306930648 62681 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"They [continents] are generally identified by convention rather than any strict criteria, with seven regions commonly regarded as continents --" < 1306930658 856628 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1306931110 575349 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit weirded out by Europe and Asia being considered separate continents < 1306931392 566824 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306931485 665614 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1306931507 888766 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, generally they aren't < 1306931545 383654 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, Eurasia is quite common name on it. Sometimes even Africa is considered part of it (and would be except for a channel) < 1306931561 755427 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as North and South America is really one single continent < 1306932282 639536 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1306933129 814212 :cheater_!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-244-121.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1306933614 240740 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1306934637 888884 :MigoMipo!MigoMipo@109.58.104.128.bredband.tre.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1306936515 692331 :ralc!~ralc@79.142.230.243.static.knet.bolignet.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1306937092 143131 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1306937141 735268 :Ycros!~ycros@gnaw.ycros.org QUIT :Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds. < 1306937147 754822 :Ycros!~ycros@ycrosgnaw-1-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306937404 273039 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306937447 574630 :TOGoS!~Stevens@h69-128-42-2.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306937457 128772 :TOGoS!~Stevens@h69-128-42-2.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net PART :#esoteric < 1306937683 894598 :MigoMipo_!MigoMipo@95.209.103.55.bredband.tre.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1306937684 430593 :MigoMipo_!MigoMipo@95.209.103.55.bredband.tre.se QUIT :Client Quit < 1306937857 792919 :MigoMipo!MigoMipo@109.58.104.128.bredband.tre.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1306938134 720507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306938288 267387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306938421 162579 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Excess Flood < 1306938552 261261 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1306938635 882300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306938876 986851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Excess Flood < 1306939023 827157 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306939026 605897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Client Quit < 1306939170 428357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306939173 161984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Client Quit < 1306939258 22503 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric > 1306939319 560979 JOIN :#esoteric > 1306939370 661941 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306939470 749140 :glogbot!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1306939471 74050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Excess Flood < 1306939555 932874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306939556 97231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306939611 151430 :cheater_!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-244-121.vodafone-net.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1306939688 644637 :cheater_!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-215-246.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1306939721 666208 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1306940055 172005 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306940066 747512 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this working yet? < 1306940082 230186 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wHAT IS THIS? < 1306940109 15540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There seems something rather wrong with my connection < 1306940120 861113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow this is laggy < 1306940127 439627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on a connection that's normally very reliable < 1306940276 446588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only connection I'm making is this IRC one via telnet, together with some standard stuff like NTP < 1306940276 611429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen no response for over a minute from a simple PING command < 1306940342 303253 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, there it is < 1306940618 554475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1306940619 741262 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : wHAT IS THIS? < 1306940629 165793 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo has finally accepted that he is Tavros. < 1306941301 896757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306941316 190059 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's better, I think < 1306941326 171064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that the wireless router here had decided to give both me, and someone else here, the same IP < 1306941329 656038 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for reasons I don't fully understand < 1306941370 349184 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe IPv4 ran out of address space. < 1306941379 267428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it's on 192.168 < 1306941386 166115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that has plenty enough space for two computers < 1306941386 335596 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO? < 1306941389 434956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's actually being NATted) < 1306941394 228125 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU DON'T KNOW < 1306941398 520014 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE ARE LOTS OF COMPUTERS MAAAN < 1306941452 565908 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC and email are being sane now, at least < 1306941455 503020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see if HTTP is too < 1306941464 676701 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what happened before then? < 1306941485 582298 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also you should probably file a bug about that dupe ip thingy < 1306941496 54546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, it was like the network was being really buggy < 1306941507 745733 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was full of duplicate packets, out-of-order packets, connections dropping, lag... < 1306941515 160746 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1306941517 958731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there was a huge spate of stuff being blocked by the firewall < 1306941526 737474 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, was there a MAC collision? < 1306941532 907548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I traced the IP in the end, it was HTTP responses from Facebook that were being sent to my computer < 1306941534 428184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I doubt it < 1306941534 600352 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't actually that unique in practise < 1306941541 462039 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could check the MAC at the other side to make sure < 1306941566 495870 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if there was a MAC collision it would explain it all < 1306941601 380340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's one < 1306941605 945450 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1306941608 342602 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, this doesn't explain why the same thing happened after rebooting the router < 1306941617 837750 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, uh indeed. File a bug. < 1306941622 477497 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is this at university? < 1306941630 201137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fixed it by repeatedly bringing my own network interface down and up until it got a different IP over DHCP < 1306941633 484913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, it's at a friend's house < 1306941638 96987 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1306941655 170205 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well... maybe the other computer is configured for static ip < 1306941655 341355 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the router is just a supplied one with default settings (other than password because we're not that stupid) < 1306941665 651312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other computer is dynamic IP too < 1306941669 631583 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1306941677 194247 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, report a bug definitely then < 1306941687 491666 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, unless there is a MAC collision that is < 1306941688 353512 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and complained about an IP collision for a bit, then decided everything was fine when we clicked the more-info button (it runs Windows) < 1306941701 975836 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh < 1306941736 938220 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well checking MAC should be a high priority, and if no collision report a bug < 1306942157 607739 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you check MAC under Windows? < 1306942179 294903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, can you just "report a bug" against a commercial home router that's completely uncustomized? it's not like it's one of those crazy DD-WRT things < 1306942757 548784 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have WINDOWS it's not MAC < 1306944757 260718 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have free deluxe soda here at Mozilla. The brand is "Natural Brew". It's easily the worst soda I have ever had the displeasure of trying. < 1306944839 966668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you work for both Microsoft and Mozilla now? < 1306944853 866416 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yup. Gonna get Google in there and have the trifecta. < 1306944858 716806 :cheater_!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-215-246.vodafone-net.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1306944898 649496 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, 'diamond' has the same origin as 'adamantine'. < 1306944924 45068 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, well yeah, but your judgement can't be trusted, other than on matters of fnarf. < 1306945031 769413 :cheater_!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-197-32.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1306945068 272418 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 . < 1306945848 248087 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : how do you check MAC under Windows? <-- network interface details iirc < 1306945861 671528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying just ipconfig, but it didn't show up there < 1306945896 286817 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well if it is xp go to network iirc, find the interface, click status. Should get you a dialog with two tabs and some buttons. iirc there is a button on the second tab for it < 1306945926 256875 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if you have the network card interface symbol in the corner next to the clock you can click on that iirc < 1306945930 384570 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, this is for XP < 1306945936 614702 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea for later versions < 1306946224 350155 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders which of the new tracks will be the end of act flash. < 1306946277 886109 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of them probably will. < 1306946353 441559 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god another Doctor remix. < 1306946443 746000 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1306946581 718849 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1306946592 720423 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the songs is the music from *http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=002655* < 1306946628 986897 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's at *least* a year and around 11 albums until it was released. < 1306946670 689467 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1306947311 506475 :cheater_!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-197-32.vodafone-net.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1306947417 446063 :cheater_!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-211-125.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1306947821 427463 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, funnily enough, guess what part of the year I was born < 1306948100 559346 :cheater_!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-211-125.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1306948107 458541 :cheater_!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-211-125.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :would a 1V5 tube deliver 300V? < 1306948401 829991 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is irssi what all the cool kids use? < 1306948500 823310 :cheater_!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-211-125.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1306948729 189050 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw, so I'm not a cool kid? damn.. < 1306948819 292756 :cheater_!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-211-125.vodafone-net.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1306948842 517793 :ralc!~ralc@79.142.230.243.static.knet.bolignet.dk QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306949510 712248 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1306949824 71188 :cheater_!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-246-25.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1306951584 895047 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1306951936 999041 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306952403 257930 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : so is irssi what all the cool kids use? < 1306952406 581575 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ABSOLUTELY < 1306952662 753693 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeus, lan a canal, suez < 1306952669 572175 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO CLOSE < 1306952957 536631 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION laughs at today's http://www.mezzacotta.net/postcard/ < 1306954402 548209 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1306954440 879942 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-136-53.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306955419 519379 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1306955781 262326 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-149-216.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Gaaah*, libtool. < 1306955786 647886 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-149-216.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It actually installs .la files. < 1306955820 37286 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-149-216.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, BTW, do something vaguely similar to pkgconfig --libs. ... If you link all your programs with libtool. < 1306956058 921225 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306956453 732179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1306956946 662575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:02:17: whoa, lyx has an option "--without-included-boost" < 1306956954 312648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you're _meant_ to use boost by including the header files in your source tree < 1306956977 386912 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, about 15 MB of boost included. plus some library parts of it < 1306956985 435547 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :headers plus* < 1306957025 230455 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :templates for disaster < 1306957120 733528 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-149-216.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: GAG < 1306957162 549787 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-149-216.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *despise* embedding libraries in a package's source tree. < 1306957170 253872 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-149-216.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In UNIX land, it is always the Wrong Thing. < 1306957185 941272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Yeah but this is Boost, it doesn't even have object files. :p < 1306957191 495860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is literally composed of headers. < 1306957207 147987 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-149-216.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Which makes that even more pointless, TBH. < 1306957360 905447 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, I thought that was a cardinal sin? < 1306957424 793648 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-149-216.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It is a cardinal sin many people are guilty of. < 1306957431 286783 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, ...why? < 1306957441 437813 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-149-216.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some packages even go out of their way to make it difficult to do otherwise. < 1306957446 193463 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-149-216.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(looking at *you*, ffmpeg) < 1306957466 225632 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-149-216.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I think in part because it's standard practice in Windows development. < 1306957775 429175 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-161-71.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306957955 112718 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-149-216.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1306958478 914793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pedrocr.net/text/how-much-gnu-in-gnu-linux < 1306958480 93886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT'S THIS < 1306958486 852790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DESKTOP LINUX SYSTEMS CONTAIN NOT ACTUALLY THAT MUCH GNU??? < 1306958488 240969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMFG < 1306958502 754904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly Stallman will now change his nomenclature to KDE/Linux. < 1306958582 809992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"/Some/ of Linux code can be built with toolchains other than GCC (e.g. clang). But surely, other portions of it depend on nonstandard GCC extensions and are useless (or require rewrite) without GCC." < 1306958584 889441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hehehehehehehehe < 1306958586 831758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit sure is stupid < 1306958962 779976 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-161-71.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, nowadays I'm of the opinion that there's just no good way of referring to various distributions of a conglomeration of various bits and pieces into an OS, with Linux as the kernel. < 1306959020 363487 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-161-71.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just "Linux" is a misnomer, and GNU really isn't a more important part, and, uh... Yeah. < 1306959026 444710 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-161-71.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's just no good nomenclature for it. < 1306959070 361207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Linux system" is good enough :P < 1306959083 882111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's common and not entirely inaccurate, so. < 1306959097 920155 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-161-71.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike that nomenclature, too, though it at least has common use in favor of it. < 1306959168 177420 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-161-71.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's particularly confusing to the ignorant, as Linux really isn't The Defining Feature in the various Unix-likes built on top of Linux. < 1306959185 252321 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-161-71.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be replaced, just like every other piece. < 1306959202 320947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah but nobody really gives a shit about that. :p < 1306959226 25743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, most people who use "Linux" don't even know what Linux is or what a kernel is, so it's fairly irrelevant to them. < 1306959243 37422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But really, "Unix-alike" is... ugly and inaccurate, but decent. < 1306959270 681557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only useful for the technical-minded, but then the non-technical-minded don't give a shit, just say "Ubuntu" or whatever you're installing for them :P < 1306959297 36596 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-161-71.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, if a specific distro is being discussed, then nomenclature gets really, really easy. < 1306959305 46138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I thought both clang and icc had implemented enough gcc extensions that they could do huge amounts of linux, possibly even the whole thing < 1306959321 878442 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang can't do the whole thing, at least < 1306959324 772640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Obviously I quoted that and then commented on the ignorance of redditors to show that I agreed with them :P < 1306959331 567228 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-161-71.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think there's one or two bits that prevent it still. < 1306959331 736122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right, it's icc that got a bootable kernel. < 1306959340 164145 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't clang compile the linux kernel already? or was that just a BSD kernel? < 1306959343 882037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsd < 1306959355 195669 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-161-71.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something to do with clang not supporting *all* of the embedded ASM that Linux uses. < 1306959458 807900 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-161-71.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, it's possible to build most of Linux with clang, but there's still a few bits broken. < 1306959471 327478 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://llvm.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=9254 is a WONTFIX that Linux depends on < 1306959485 646516 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-161-71.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Module loading straight-up doesn't work, and the VDSO and boot stuff don't build right. < 1306959520 986664 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-161-71.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Building the VDSO and boot with GCC gets you a booting Linux kernel, though some non-essential subsystems won't work. < 1306959531 47381 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-161-71.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source: http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/pipermail/cfe-dev/2010-October/011711.html < 1306959540 572366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :'variable length < 1306959540 755285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :array in structure' extension will never be supported < 1306959542 197686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1306959545 444834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1306959546 306046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1306959549 99516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought e.g. < 1306959551 648912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int foo[]; < 1306959554 287601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :was WONTFIX < 1306959579 275441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I agree. This an nested functions are two things we really really don't want < 1306959579 452009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to implement." < 1306959584 977650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: clang isn't implementing nested functions? < 1306959587 434142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :x_X < 1306959596 62708 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like it, don't ask me < 1306959615 195773 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-161-71.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nested functions are a total bitch to support right, and GCC's support for it is an epic hack, TBH. < 1306959706 155709 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-136-53.mpls.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey um < 1306959726 337306 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-136-53.mpls.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this might be the wrong place to ask but do you know where I could find somebody who can use CDC Cyber BASIC < 1306960015 682108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \f g x -> f x + g x < 1306960015 886574 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM2 (+) < 1306960375 592670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle RealFrac < 1306960375 950258 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude class (Real a, Fractional a) => RealFrac a < 1306960393 574062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anything actually use RealFrac... < 1306960405 304100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, RealFloat requires it, ugh < 1306960587 639527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1306960602 566127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isIEEE seems like it should be a constant < 1306960775 290046 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember that Algol 68's standard prelude defines + in terms of - < 1306960869 19162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: weird < 1306960888 963020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/portaudio-0.0.1 ;; bleh, this is rather incomplete < 1306960906 543971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at the other bindings < 1306960954 880446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> length (second (sin :: Signal Double)) < 1306960955 55781 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :44001 < 1306960958 572921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that's an off-by-one, isn't it? < 1306961103 877930 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t floor < 1306961104 999190 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (RealFrac a, Integral b) => a -> b < 1306961128 6548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm defining instances for functions, so all my RealFrac functions are const (error "...") :P < 1306961182 707779 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> isIEEE (undefined :: Double) -- as close to constant as you can get < 1306961183 864210 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1306961227 221297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just done < 1306961227 910789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : isIEEE f = isIEEE (f 0) -- ??? < 1306961245 126152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \f -> isIEEE (f 0) < 1306961245 326903 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :isIEEE . ($ 0) < 1306961251 693761 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe not looking at the argument is a requirement for that function < 1306961256 617805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now all my instance functions are point-free ;D < 1306961270 116937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Hmm < 1306961281 476493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: So I should do "isIEEE _ = isIEEE (undefined :: a)"? < 1306961284 410721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :With ScopedTypeVariables. < 1306961295 360161 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1306961302 887080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, don't even need ScopedTypeVariables. < 1306961418 402537 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle range < 1306961418 989767 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Ix range :: Ix a => (a, a) -> [a] < 1306961419 152632 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language.Haskell.TH data Range < 1306961419 152716 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language.Haskell.TH.Syntax data Range < 1306961435 250456 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle genRange < 1306961435 892637 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.Random genRange :: RandomGen g => g -> (Int, Int) < 1306961449 582475 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> genRange (undefined :: StdGen) < 1306961450 754267 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (0,2147483562) < 1306961458 173256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish they used Tagged instead < 1306961496 182437 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that wasn't invented < 1306961528 505396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an obvious invention :P < 1306962643 8177 :Tritonio!~TrT@178.128.132.34.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1306962856 981685 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=002015 < 1306962870 830808 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esolangs just asking to be invented. < 1306962893 732471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disasterisk sounds like a metal band. < 1306962900 767224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DISASTER + RISK = DISASTERISK < 1306962920 684161 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :disasterix the gaol < 1306963250 567346 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/hoxbo/how_do_i_apply_to_join_the_haskell_cult_yes_i/c1x80kt it's all clear now < 1306963366 49356 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, are you a member. < 1306963527 198667 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> oerjan `elem` REDACTED < 1306963528 388441 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `oerjan'Not in scope: data constructor `REDACTED' < 1306963538 607444 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :difficult to say < 1306963597 867790 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"was that it was to be a" <-- greatest fragment of English ever. < 1306963605 981482 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, no it isn't. < 1306963613 703912 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a perfectly normal fragment. < 1306963643 604698 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The greatest flaw of C++ was that it was to be an OO language based on C, which is just idiotic. < 1306963661 179148 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1306963663 899470 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306963966 53525 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1306964564 494601 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-202-231.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306964580 629975 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-161-71.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1306964635 232751 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: Consistent type system -> strong termination -> not Turing complete < 1306964642 49782 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In the context of typed LCs.) < 1306964645 450771 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that true? < 1306964669 985761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1306964674 615916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1306964680 326181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's true that the type system has to be sub-TC. < 1306964695 876341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: consider that Haskell's type system is inconsistent < 1306964698 108079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :when viewed as a logic < 1306964698 454712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1306964700 9601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :undefined :: a < 1306964701 903070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :undefined = undefined < 1306964711 721845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yes, a TC language has an inconsistent logic as its type system. < 1306964720 552269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan can nitpick me :) < 1306964738 74143 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in terms of the actual _type system_, not in terms of the logic it represents. < 1306964766 137037 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1306964772 726003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: define consistent < 1306965579 899815 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey kiddo < 1306967010 227204 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306967326 118238 :Tritonio!~TrT@178.128.132.34.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1306967389 128229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> concatMap (replicate 9) [0,9,0,9] < 1306967389 792495 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9] < 1306967391 682670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1306968346 407271 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1306968867 279600 :cheater_!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-246-25.vodafone-net.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1306969119 223516 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306969611 143765 :cheater_!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-18-143.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1306970722 579992 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1306971746 673825 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is by far the most active channel I frequent that isn't a programming language channel. < 1306972091 816516 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it IS a programming-language channel! < 1306972103 550323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: thanks to MEEE < 1306972532 408626 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-136-53.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306972691 357917 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-26.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306972703 108317 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-202-231.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds