00:05:37 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 00:05:37 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Changing host). 00:05:37 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 00:10:57 http://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/hqw18/people_of_earth/c1xm35t 00:10:59 XD 00:14:04 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:18:06 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:19:40 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 00:39:42 I'm going to give http://www.drchinese.com/David/EPR_Bell_Aspect.htm a read, on the recommendation of someone in /r/sciencefaqs 00:40:19 WOT distrusts the site for some reason 00:45:23 just went there its got viruses dont go 00:45:27 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:46:49 ? 00:47:20 I assume you're being sarcastic 00:49:34 -!- Vorpal has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 00:50:56 no 00:50:57 its really bad 00:50:58 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:51:00 theyre all over my computer 00:51:40 -!- wareya has joined. 00:55:05 "(it must be simple because I did it!" 00:58:22 http://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/hqwhh/steven_wolfram_is_extremely_smart_but_kind_of_a/ 00:58:35 This is possibly the greatest understatement ever made. 00:58:52 Oh my god Feynman sent a letter to him. 00:58:58 yeah its amazing 00:59:07 hitler is extremely charismastic but kind of a jerk 00:59:20 http://www.lettersofnote.com/2010/06/you-dont-understand-ordinary-people.html 00:59:34 Feynman: now my favourite person. 00:59:44 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 00:59:45 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Changing host). 00:59:45 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 00:59:59 CakeProphet, behold http://www.lettersofnote.com/2010/06/you-dont-understand-ordinary-people.html 01:00:13 RPF;ht is the best signature. 01:00:32 I wonder if I should point out ais' experience with him. 01:01:31 has ais actually met Wolfram? 01:01:48 Hmm, some people in the comments are implying that Feynman's letter insinuates that women are non-technical, but I can't actually see that in the letter. 01:01:50 Am I missing something? 01:02:17 "Find a way to do your research with as little contact with non-technical people as possible, with one exception, fall madly in love!" 01:02:33 Oh, I see, people are assuming that when Feynman says "fall madly in love", he means with a female, and that his "exception" doesn't mean "don't /limit/ yourself to technical people" but "/only/ consider non-technical people". 01:02:35 I suppose you could read it that way. 01:02:49 So heterosexism + reading comprehension failure. 01:02:50 Awesome. 01:05:24 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:07:05 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 01:07:05 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Changing host). 01:07:05 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 01:20:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:23:29 * pikhq builds sabotage... 01:24:35 Which, incidentally, has a pretty awesome build setup. 01:25:37 I have no idea what an eigenfunction or eigenvalue is 01:25:43 EPR refers pretty heavily to those 01:34:37 Eigenfunction? Context? 01:41:19 -!- augur has joined. 01:43:20 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:44:51 pikhq, http://www.drchinese.com/David/EPR.pdf 01:44:56 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 01:44:56 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Changing host). 01:44:56 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 01:45:00 Einstein et. al's paper 01:46:18 *Aaaah*, it's a generalisation of the concept of eigenvector. 01:46:58 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:47:02 Sgeo: Long story short: you should have gone to a better college and took linear algebra. 01:47:19 I think I'm going to gloss over the math in these papers 01:52:19 Do I understand EPR right: If you have two previously interacting systems, and measure, say, position of one, and velocity of the other, you could use the math from the former to get the position of the other as well, therefore.... something? 01:54:20 pikhq: good joke 01:54:58 elliott_: Okay, okay, *real answer*. 01:55:04 Sgeo: You should learn linear algebra. 01:57:22 * Sgeo wikis EPR paradox 01:57:48 Ooh, I vaguely got my understanding correct 02:08:04 https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Vactrain 02:08:06 * pikhq wants 02:09:36 https lol 02:09:41 How much would a vactrain ride cost? 02:09:41 SECRET WIKIPEDIA BROWSING 02:09:46 Sgeo: five thousand nines 02:09:58 pikhq: BUT WHAT IF THE WINDOW BREAKS AND THE VACUUM GETS INTO THE TRAIN 02:09:59 WE'LL ALL DIE 02:11:14 * Sgeo has no idea how long it currently takes to get from NY to London 02:11:17 Nor what the cost is 02:11:24 I don't travel much 02:11:29 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 02:14:23 Sgeo: it takes 9 time intervals 02:14:39 * Sgeo slaps elliott 02:14:54 q 02:15:00 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:22:51 -!- augur has joined. 02:35:09 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:37:12 -!- Patashu has joined. 02:37:46 -!- elliott_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:38:12 -!- elliott has joined. 02:40:09 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:40:14 -!- elliott_ has joined. 02:44:15 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:51:58 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: cant see a thing). 02:55:05 -!- monqy has joined. 03:09:26 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38). 03:22:36 "Manually updated up to strip #2800." 03:22:37 Booooo 03:24:19 ? 03:24:25 oh, iwc 03:24:40 well there's only two hundred and fifty more strips than that... 03:26:16 wow, i was going to note that http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/2000.html missed MSPA, but I remember /reading/ this iwc strip and it predates the beginning of problem sleuth by two months :) 03:59:38 Sgeo: I don't get it 04:05:22 its sgeo 04:05:40 coppro, Irregular Webcomic's list of educational strips 04:18:36 ah... okay? 04:18:43 http://irregularwebcomic.net/special/educational.html 04:39:21 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 04:39:28 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Changing host). 04:39:28 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 04:40:29 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:41:36 The [[Talk:Condit]] article probably ought to be corrected some more 04:43:32 comex: why did you vote against your own proposals 04:43:43 you pay attention to Agora? 04:43:55 because I'm in an anti-legislation mood 04:44:03 comex: i vote occasionally 04:44:10 also because everyone's votes are probably invalid, since they don't specify two options 04:44:21 comex: that's inevitably going to be ratified away 04:44:26 why haven't we fixed that yet? 04:44:36 coppro: cuz we're all lazy fucks 04:44:43 make a proposal that fixes it and ratifies everything as working :P 04:44:55 and we can all vote PRESENT/FOR on it 04:44:57 because I didn't distribute the proposal until today 04:44:58 actually 04:45:00 because I forgot about it 04:45:03 just ratify that it all works after the proposal 04:45:10 because if you actually can't vote at all 04:45:10 liek I said in ##nomic, Wooble should take over promotor 04:45:13 i.e. the worst case 04:45:14 then... 04:45:16 then I have no chance of being speaker :( 04:45:17 oh well 04:45:26 I'll take over 04:45:26 comex: ill be promoter ill be the best promotorwe 04:45:37 ill format every distribution differently 04:45:43 ascii art always 04:45:43 Murphy will love that 04:45:47 yes 04:45:48 it will be the best 04:46:04 i think murphy probably has a paste-in-reasonably-formatted-votes script for assessor stuff 04:46:10 which is partially why i'm voting in lunatic formats 04:46:17 im a huge big stinky jerk 04:53:54 I should start voting 05:03:30 I STILL FEEL AWKWARD 05:04:16 Sgeo: about waht... 05:04:28 Same thing I was talking about May 21st 05:04:40 you are expecting me to logread for a simple answer 05:04:40 -!- augur has joined. 05:04:46 i mean obviously i will but 05:05:01 Talking to someone about a girl he recently broke up with 05:05:11 suddenly i don't want to know any more 05:05:26 actually i never did to start with, but i had a bit of morbid curiosity that has just become sort of morbid dread so never mind 05:10:33 -!- Kustas has joined. 05:11:15 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:11:18 Does it help if I say that he seems to be encouraging me to talk to her? 05:11:56 nothing helps the pain 05:11:59 NOTHINGGGGGGGGG 05:13:09 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 05:14:36 Why can't I find the page I was just looking at? 05:15:40 if you have a history list, you can find it 05:16:58 I meant find which tab it was open it 05:17:00 *open in 05:22:29 I think the concept of photon polarization is confusing me 05:23:15 Oh, hmm 05:25:24 I think the example doesn't actually matter whether it's possible that a case can occur or not, just that 05:30:05 LYAH is now available as a hardcover book? 05:30:06 o.O 05:30:16 no its only available in wool-bound form 05:30:19 sheepcover 05:30:35 why is this surprising 05:30:47 I thought it was online-only 05:30:57 yes then it got published 05:33:51 -!- qwerty has joined. 05:34:05 qwerty azerty 05:34:27 -!- qwerty has changed nick to Guest97961. 05:36:09 anyone on who knows pl/sql? 05:37:30 p 05:37:34 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:37:35 oops 05:37:37 I meant no 05:51:26 http://digitallife.today.com/_news/2011/06/03/6778320-nsfw-zomg-and-twittersphere-added-to-dictionary 05:52:22 so? 05:52:45 "Twittersphere" seems a bit objectionable as it's more of a brand name term, but... 05:52:59 breadcrumb trail - (on a website) a series of hyperlinks displayed at the top of a web page, indicating the page's position in the overall structure of the site 05:52:59 this wasn't already in? huh 05:53:01 gosh, neither was infographic 05:53:08 "nekkid- (of a person) naked: some of the oldest photos in existence are of nekkid women" 05:53:09 best example 05:53:15 ok yeah this isn't actually that interesting 05:53:36 -!- Guest97961 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:53:43 -!- sebbu has joined. 05:53:43 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 05:53:43 -!- sebbu has joined. 06:29:50 -!- elliott_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:54:51 * Sgeo finds Benadryl pills from 2006 06:57:14 -!- azaq23 has joined. 06:59:14 Everything I'm reading says that at worst, it's likely to be useless 07:00:31 If you need Benadryl pills, then you should purchase more, then. That way it won't be useless. 07:01:04 I think I'll just take a melatonin 07:01:41 Use that if it helps, then 07:40:53 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:48:34 -!- Kustas has quit (Quit: outing). 07:54:19 -!- pikhq has joined. 07:54:24 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:06:34 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 08:16:15 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 08:39:55 I made a GameBoy game fitting in less than 4 KB (still more than that 1 KB breakout game, however). It has 256 levels, which can be played in any order. 08:41:53 Maybe the file can still be shortened, though, while still keeping the same rules and levels of the game 09:10:48 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:12:06 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:52:55 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 09:52:55 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 09:52:55 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 09:55:59 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:01:03 -!- Slereah has joined. 10:02:44 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:03:35 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:03:40 -!- pikhq has joined. 10:32:13 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 10:35:24 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 10:51:45 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:56:40 -!- azaq23 has joined. 11:12:38 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:14:33 -!- Vorpal has joined. 11:21:48 -!- showstopper has joined. 11:45:15 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 11:53:13 -!- showstopper has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:56:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:01:36 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:11:49 -!- copumpkin has joined. 12:15:02 -!- copumpkin has quit (Client Quit). 12:19:44 -!- kidpoker82 has joined. 12:20:06 -!- kidpoker82 has left. 12:26:16 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:27:45 -!- SimonRC has joined. 12:35:06 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 12:36:42 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:39:16 Sgeo_, RRC's point was essentially that time-translation symmetry doesn't hold because the universe is expanding. 12:39:16 Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 12:39:53 -!- Patashu has joined. 12:53:26 http://i.imgur.com/O32j1.png 12:53:33 Wolfram, you continue to outdo yourself. 12:54:40 lol 12:55:44 I don't get that when I put that into WA 12:55:55 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=how+smart+is+stephen+wolfram%3F 13:13:26 Yeah, me neither. 13:15:37 OK I am sliding over the boredom event horizon. 13:18:55 Phantom_Hoover, go code something! 13:18:57 XD 13:19:18 WHY DO YOU MOCK MY DISABILITY 13:20:35 Phantom_Hoover, oh I didn't know it was a disability. I thought it was a blessing 13:21:04 Phantom_Hoover, I wish had the power to NOT implement all the things I think of 13:21:41 Disability? 13:22:01 Sgeo_: *lack of ability 13:22:26 Phantom_Hoover: haha, I mock you 13:23:21 http://i.imgur.com/O32j1.png <-- pretty sure that one is faked yeah 13:23:23 Sgeo_, the way my perfectionism and my inability to pay attention to anything for any length of time makes me incapable of writing a program that takes more than around an hour. 13:23:25 fun though 13:38:20 Ooh, Eiffel does the ... is there a formal name for not having idiotic nulls? 13:38:42 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:41:39 Or not, I actually haven't read the thing 13:43:02 -!- SimonRC has joined. 13:43:13 Sgeo_, "idiotic nulls"? 13:43:17 Sgeo_, what do you mean 13:43:30 I just mean null references as opposed to Maybe/option 13:43:32 >.> 13:43:50 ah 13:44:27 Sgeo_, I could you could argue that all pointers in C are implicitly of a Maybe-like type 13:46:00 if I made an imperative CPU architecture I would probably make access to virtual page 0 "hard-wired" to cause an exception/trap. 13:46:32 * Sgeo_ has to see if there's an Eiffel web framework 13:47:22 Sgeo_, what paradigm is Eiffel now again? imperative OOP? 13:47:41 Vorpal, not sure, that sounds about right though 13:48:10 Sgeo_, which sort of OOP? C++/java/C#-style? smalltalk/objc-style? Something else? 13:49:44 Define "style". I'm not that familiar with Eiffel, but I think it's single-dispatch (which afaik all of the ones you listed are), statically typed *(which doesn't make sense to me as an "OOP" style, but is un-Smalltalk-like) 13:50:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:52:08 Sgeo_, well from what I understood, smalltalk and objc uses the concept of sending objects messages, while C++, java and so on treats it as calling functions of a object. Of course they are pretty much equivalent on a lower level. 13:52:30 however I should point out I don't know much smalltalk or objc, so I may be misinformed about this 13:52:31 Ah. Not sure which one Eiffel is. 13:53:43 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 13:53:45 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 13:54:19 Sgeo_, you mentioned "single-dispatch", what other options are there? 13:54:50 Something like CLOS or Slate, where the method called depends on several of the arguments 13:55:16 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_dispatch ? 13:55:18 ah sounds interesting. I mostly used scheme, not so much common lisp 13:55:36 Patashu, yes 13:55:58 http://lee.fov120.com/ecoop.pdf a paper advocating for "prototype multiple dispatch" 14:00:20 "How simple is SCOOP? It requires only a single new keyword: separate." 14:00:34 Um... I don't think you can measure simplicity by amount of new keywords 14:00:46 you beat me to that remark 14:00:48 http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2006/10/31/20640/115 14:01:12 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:02:29 Sgeo_, RRC's point was essentially that time-translation symmetry doesn't hold because the universe is expanding. 14:03:02 iirc put another way, general relativity does not have a concept of globally conserved energy 14:03:20 * Sgeo_ downloads EiffelStudio 14:03:41 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:04:57 "If you only want to evaluate EiffelStudio for future projects please download our Evaluation Edition. 14:04:58 " 14:04:59 Huh? 14:05:07 (looking at the GPL download page) 14:05:30 Wolfram, you continue to outdo yourself. 14:06:17 there might be a _teeny_ chance he is exaggerating his own personality for marketing purposes 14:08:00 I don't get that when I put that into WA 14:08:01 darn 14:08:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:08:31 Vorpal, Pointer = Null | Pointer Integer? 14:09:32 Why is this thing about to install EiffelStudio 6.7? 14:09:59 Ok, that's the latest release 14:10:06 Am I allowed to be sad by it not having SCOOPS? 14:11:18 ok obviously it's fake, wolfram would never settle for having 20 million above him... 14:11:44 -!- Kustas has joined. 14:11:44 er wait 14:11:56 -!- SimonRC has joined. 14:12:02 * oerjan swats his reading comprehension -----### 14:13:00 oerjan, yeah, he'd never settle having over 300 above him. 14:23:48 Eiffel's "Why use Eiffel" stuff is a very good example of how much marketingspeak you can fit into a few documents 14:23:57 http://docs.eiffel.com/book/why-eiffel/eiffel-two-minute-fact-sheet 14:24:27 "The platforms covered range from Unix (all of Unix, the famous and the arcane) and Linux to OpenVMS, OS/2, Windows 3. 1, Windows NT, Windows 95/98. 14:24:27 " http://docs.eiffel.com/book/why-eiffel/why-your-next-project-should-use-eiffel 14:24:33 I think this may be a little old 14:26:33 so basically it's about why your _previous_ project should have used eiffel 14:26:37 http://www.jvoegele.com/software/langcomp.html based on the given answer for C# Higher Order Functions, I'm going to guesss that this page is obsolete 14:26:51 oerjan, heh 14:30:52 o.O 14:31:03 Eiffel is contrasting itself with Smalltalk 14:31:25 I want to say I think it has a point, but I'm pretty sure it will reveal a failure of mine to really grasp Smalltalk 14:31:42 "In contrast with, say, Smalltalk, you do not read the source code of a class when you want to use it. This may be fine for a couple dozen classes, but not for a large, powerful library." 14:31:48 http://docs.eiffel.com/book/why-eiffel/why-your-next-project-should-use-eiffel#Reusability 14:34:16 Why do I feel so much animosity towards Eiffel? 14:41:16 how fun, i slept for something like 15h 14:41:22 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 14:42:31 anyway wolfram's iq led me here: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=penis+length, how are those quantities corresponding exactly? 14:44:13 ? 14:44:26 did you read the page 14:47:48 Is penis length being 504 light-picoseconds unreasonable? 14:48:14 * Sgeo_ puts 504 light-picoseconds into WA 14:48:41 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=504+light-picoseconds 14:48:48 Looks fine to me 14:49:02 In a close enough sense 14:49:44 EiffelStudio installer compiling libraries takes an eternity 14:53:52 oh yeah i rather misunderstood what those picoseconds were about 14:58:23 WHY am I still holding out hope that Eiffel has continuations? It's a profoundly stupid hope 14:59:27 -!- Kustas has quit (Quit: sauna). 14:59:42 You are a profoundly stupid man, clearly. 15:02:46 I think the reason that I'm about to play with Eiffel is that EiffelStudio sounds like it could be a fun IDE 15:03:17 The installer is _still_ compiling stuff 15:03:18 does eiffel have towers :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 15:04:52 you know, like the one in the beautiful town of eiffel 15:04:57 where is elliott :\ 15:05:24 If Eiffel gets me to be able to write software with GUIs, it will be worth it 15:05:40 Unless it's crap, of course 15:05:40 why would you want to write a gui 15:06:08 when you can just write inputs in the source code and recompile 15:09:29 Woo, EiffelStudio installed 15:13:04 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 15:13:21 where is elliott :\ 15:13:23 Werewolves. 15:17:25 -!- oklopol has joined. 15:20:16 -!- oddod has joined. 15:20:30 where is elliott :\ 15:20:31 Werewolves. 15:21:56 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:29:26 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:29:36 -!- pikhq has joined. 15:48:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 15:48:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:56:34 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 .). 16:16:06 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:17:49 -!- SimonRC has joined. 16:18:40 Wait, SimonRC is still here? 16:35:02 Good *God* gnulib does nasty things. 16:35:20 It has special-cased code for poking around in the internals of the libc's FILE. 16:35:28 For every known libc. 16:40:42 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:41:05 Bahaha 16:41:06 Great 16:41:13 For what function? 16:44:36 Freadahead, among other things. 16:50:38 Vorpal, Pointer = Null | Pointer Integer? <-- yes kind of, except that Null is not a separate value from the other range for C 16:50:51 unless you define that address (often 0) to be invalid 16:59:29 Freadahead, among other things. 16:59:41 Is this not doable with the Way You're Meant To Do It? 17:06:26 Not with POSIX. 17:15:10 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:19:36 -!- monqy has joined. 17:20:14 What does it do? 17:24:48 -!- augur has joined. 17:28:09 What /doesn't/ it do? It slices, it dices, it purees and it resolidifies, breaking the laws of thermodynamics. 17:34:03 pikhq, I have no man page for freadahead, what on earth does it do? I looked at gnulib source and that didn't help much at all 17:34:38 it doesn't seem to load more stuff ahead 17:34:49 hm, does it return size of IO buffers? 17:44:13 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 17:44:13 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Changing host). 17:44:13 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 17:46:33 hey, remember when everyone here mocked me for saying I was entering a Pokémon championship, and saying I had no chance? 17:46:44 the UK national Pokémon (video game) championships was today, and I came top 8 17:47:15 /usr/include/stdlib.h:96:1: error: expected ‘=’, ‘,’, ‘;’, ‘asm’ or ‘__attribute__’ before ‘__BEGIN_NAMESPACE_STD’ 17:47:18 Wut. 17:49:41 ais523: Nice. 17:52:06 Vorpal: It looks to me like it'd return the amount of stuff there are in the buffers that you can fread without having to actually do IO. 17:56:03 the UK national Pokémon (video game) championships was today, and I came top 8 17:56:08 See, we told you so. 17:56:27 top 8 in a nationals is enough to qualify for the world championships, but I don't plan to go 17:56:52 See? 17:57:15 Phantom_Hoover: I don't understand 17:58:14 ais523: nice! 17:58:34 thanks 17:58:47 Top 8 means you didn't win, in accordance with our (well, not my) prediction, and your opting out of the world championships demonstrates that you subconsciously agree. 17:59:01 * coppro swats Phantom_Hoover 18:00:59 yeah, if you're not #1, you might just as well kill yourself, or alternatively everyone above you in the ranking. 18:01:03 -!- oddod has changed nick to oklopol. 18:01:05 whoops 18:01:20 mirc sucks 18:03:12 Fucking hell, it should not be this difficult to get an i686 cross-compiler. 18:10:52 Phantom_Hoover, foton 18:11:00 Fotons! 18:11:27 First demonstrated experimentally by the fotoelectric effect. 18:11:57 Mind you, what the question is talking about is a bit beyond me 18:12:02 But still 18:16:07 Yup, much easier to just go ahead and build a native i686 PCC. 18:28:16 i wonder how many people i'd have to kill to be the best at everything 18:28:51 hmm 18:28:59 oh dear 18:29:00 languages 18:29:07 It might be impossible regardless of how many 18:29:26 well ignoring that stupid point 18:29:36 that THEY'RE THE BEST AT BEING THEMSELVES or whatever 18:29:52 skills i consider worth skillin' 18:29:56 if you kill them 18:29:59 they'd be better than you 18:30:01 at being dead 18:30:24 that 18:30:35 Yes, one thing is that. 18:31:03 -!- TOGoS has joined. 18:31:05 -!- TOGoS has left. 18:31:16 but yeah ignoring your silliness, i'd have to kill pretty much everyone outside finland and american right away, and most americans too, due to language 18:31:24 *america 18:32:11 You're saying everyone in Finland is mediocre at everything? 18:32:28 i'm saying most finnish people don't know a language better than me 18:32:51 many know swedish better than me, but the point is i wouldn't have to kill more than say 50% based solely on that 18:33:09 whereas i'd certainly have to kill EVERY CHINESE PERSON 18:33:23 each and every one of them, except a few retards 18:33:29 Learn to be Chinese and kill yourself 18:33:36 oklopol: probably everyone but you 18:33:43 i doubt that 18:33:50 i know many people who are worse than me at everything 18:34:21 that is, measuring only skills i consider worth skillin' 18:34:23 as i specified 18:35:08 ah, I see 18:35:13 ais523: Which pokemon generation was it? And which games belonging to that generation? What other rules? 18:35:48 but yeah it's true there probably aren't many people who are worse than me at everything someone would call a skill 18:36:01 and those people are probably literally braindead 18:36:26 if, for instance, knowing a single fact is considered a skill :P 18:36:52 zzo38: 5th, and Black and White; the rules were no Pokémon that aren't in the Unova Pokédex (i.e. new in Black/White), no Victini/Resihram/Kyurem/Zekrom, double battle, no duplicate items or species, no using Sky Drop (because it's glitched), you take 6 pokémon in your team, you see the species/level/gender of the opponent's 6 then pick 4 of your 6 to battle with 18:37:26 Hrrrm. 18:37:57 amusingly, people have been banning sky drop in single battles too, even though there's no known way to trigger the glitch there 18:37:57 Seems that configure doesn't coöperate with busybox. 18:38:03 ais523: OK. (I don't know the Black and White rules) Any rules having to do with items? 18:38:12 zzo38: no duplicate items, that's it 18:38:19 also, as usual in competitive battles, you can't use battles from your bag 18:38:29 what 18:38:31 you have to give the items to Pokémon and have their AI use them automatically, and not all items work like that 18:38:32 Do you mean, items from your bag? 18:38:33 can you put a battle in a bag? 18:38:36 *can't use items from your bag 18:38:49 It doesn't make its way through the sanity check. 18:39:09 pikhq: wow that's a fast failure 18:39:12 Anyone got sufficient autoconf foo to tell me why I get this? 18:39:14 checking whether build environment is sane... configure: error: newly created file is older than distributed files! 18:39:20 pikhq: timestamps 18:39:30 the build system has to have timestamps before the current time 18:39:43 or else make gets fatally confused 18:39:54 and autoconf is checking for that 18:40:33 The timestamps of the source are the UNIX epoch. 18:40:39 i dreamt that my balls were tiny, and that my guitar string snapped and that i downloaded a program 18:40:56 oklopol: Are these three things related? 18:41:19 well all of them are related to what i've been doing irl, masturbating, changing my guitar strings, and planning to download the program in question 18:41:24 but i doubt they are related to each other 18:41:27 pikhq: and I take it the current time isn't before the epoch? 18:41:37 perhaps busybox test doesn't implement time comparisons, or something 18:42:03 Configure doesn't do time comparisons. It does ls -t. 18:42:21 ah 18:42:36 ... Whiiich seems to be unimplemented. 18:44:59 It sounds annoying to code with the Command-Query Separation stuff 18:45:16 Although I guess it does make functions pure 18:53:22 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:55:50 Ah, I'd just fucked it up a little bit. 19:03:41 -!- azaq23 has joined. 19:04:23 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 19:04:38 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:08:11 Very obnoxiously hard to bootstrap with pcc. 19:09:56 -!- copumpkin has joined. 19:10:12 Scratch that, "mother-fucking impossible". 19:12:21 Scracth that again, "mother-fucking impossible with GNU utils". 19:14:43 -!- copumpkin has quit (Client Quit). 19:19:17 Scratch that again, "mother-fucking impossible, and why the hell does heirloom need a C++ compiler". 19:19:23 Also "fuck you all". 19:20:02 -!- atrapado has joined. 19:30:42 Everybody and everything sucks, and everybody should be ashamed of themselves. 19:31:44 k 19:31:59 -!- pingveno has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:32:31 Especially GNU. 19:34:05 -!- pingveno has joined. 19:36:23 yup 19:36:32 GNU is a bunch of assholes 19:37:58 LibreOffice's changelog frightens me. 19:39:13 hmm? 19:39:48 "We brought the build down from 15 hours to 30 minutes". 19:39:50 This frightens me. 19:41:00 O_o 19:41:48 And apparently they cut out giant swaths of *dead code*. 19:41:58 that's to be expected 19:41:58 wow 19:42:02 OOo was a very legacy codebase 19:42:04 I'm impressed 19:42:34 Glad that they're taking the effort to cut out a bunch of bullshit, though. 19:48:16 Who has a bigger ego, the Abrahamic God or Stephen Wolfram? 20:02:31 Wolfram. 20:02:57 God doesn't need a big ego, he can just smite anyone who doesn't worship him. 20:07:45 ^ 20:22:11 Wolfram. 20:22:21 The Abrahamic deity does not exist, and hence has no ego. 20:23:47 If we consider the fictional character, though, I'd say that deity has a gigantic ego. Making all of everything simply to praise him? That's a feat of ego Wolfram only wishes he'd have thought up. 20:25:59 -!- norman256394 has joined. 20:26:04 Hey everyone! 20:26:34 Hellote. 20:26:55 So what is this chat room about? 20:27:01 norman256394: esoteric programming langages 20:27:08 Everything with a side helping of esoteric programming languages 20:27:10 as in, programming languages not often used because they're stupid or impractical 20:27:21 oh... 20:27:24 often deliberately so 20:27:30 *thinking if I came to the right place 20:27:34 we also talk about other esoterica 20:27:50 so if you're just a curious type, you might want to hang around to learn 20:27:56 coppro: no we don't 20:28:02 we just troll people who come in here wanting to talk about it 20:28:02 ais523: yes we do 20:28:05 until they get bored and go away 20:28:09 41sup all 20:28:10 :( 20:28:10 15:48 < Sgeo_> Who has a bigger ego, the Abrahamic God or Stephen Wolfram? 20:28:12 I'm not really sure what the point is 20:28:26 this is sort of typical discussion 20:28:39 norman256394, this channel is about Eric the Esot 20:28:39 in fact, arguing about whether we argue about esoterica is very #esoteric 20:28:53 Pretty sure that's not what's generally considered esoterica... 20:29:09 Well, yes 20:29:11 norman256394: I suspect you're in the wrong place, anyway 20:29:18 And in any case, our actual discussions of esoterica are by no means what someone who's interested in it would desire. 20:29:18 and unfortunately, I don't know what the right place is 20:29:25 yeah...looks like it. :) 20:29:29 hah 20:29:32 if you find out, why not let me know so that I can direct other people there so you can chat with them? 20:29:36 see ya, norman256394! 20:29:59 norman256394, what were you looking for? 20:30:10 well...I wanted to talk about software design 20:30:19 ais523: that made a lot more sense when I remembered you're British 20:30:22 cool, what sort of software? 20:30:30 hmm 20:30:34 elliott's not around, right? 20:30:38 User Interface 20:30:48 coppro: I don't think so 20:30:49 for that try maybe #haskell 20:31:01 ais523: excellent 20:31:05 we're safe from him then 20:31:05 No, elliott would be joining me in a mutual rant on the evils of GNU if he were. 20:31:07 cheater_: I'm not sure that's any more appropriate 20:31:16 pikhq_: excellent point 20:31:20 haskell has gui bindings 20:31:23 isn't that like another esoteric language 20:31:25 cheater_: so? 20:31:27 so does Befunge 20:31:34 oh alright 20:31:40 can we talk about befunge gui bindings now? 20:31:49 if you want to 20:31:53 I can't actually remember what they are 20:31:57 so the conversation won't go very far 20:31:59 (dear God, you can't freaking bootstrap a system with pcc! It's not like this is some little-known compiler, it's a high-quality and classic ISO C99 compiler!) 20:32:01 actually i was thinking of discussing in a *very* language agnostic way 20:32:11 what sort of programming paradigms are recommended for programming befunge guis? 20:32:13 pikhq_: gcc used to be compiler-agnostic 20:32:24 norman256394, we sometimes talk about GUIs and stuff 20:32:27 but in the end, they decided gcc was so widespread that they might as well be specific to it 20:32:28 pikhq_: why can't you bootstrap with it? It uses extensions it doesn't implement? 20:32:40 this is potentially a dubious decision 20:32:42 like the plan9 interface for example 20:32:57 You can bootstrap PCC itself just fine. 20:33:02 I think gcc has successfully managed an E/E/E on C 20:33:04 which is worrying 20:33:10 E/E/E? 20:33:12 Indeed, you can get musl and PCC up and running without much effort. 20:33:13 ok...I never heard of half of the stuff you guys are talking about. 20:33:14 well, other C compilers 20:33:19 coppro: embrace/extend/extinguish 20:33:33 But not much else will actually build with this setup. 20:33:33 ais523: ah, yes 20:33:41 very much so 20:33:51 what does it mean that gcc is compiler agnostic? 20:33:54 And it ain't the libc doing it. Well, not all of it, as you can generally tweak C stuff into complying. 20:33:56 but we're fighting back 20:33:57 GNU are basically software communists. 20:34:06 cheater_: same as what it means for any other program to be compiler agnostic 20:34:17 Phantom_Hoover, is linux communist software? 20:34:30 ais523, ok. 20:34:37 But good God I couldn't even get fucking *Heirloom* to build with PCC and musl. 20:34:51 * coppro makes some noise 20:35:00 what's heirloom? 20:35:12 norman256394, what sort of guis did you want to talk about? 20:35:17 maybe they're esoteric guis. 20:35:21 The Heirloom toolset is a port of the classic UNIX utils to Linux. 20:35:42 Collected out of BSD and OpenSolaris source, IIRC. 20:35:45 actually I was thinking on a very abstract level 20:35:54 pikhq_: ah, I was wondering "why not just use BSD utils"? 20:35:56 and it seems they did 20:35:57 what package does that come in pikhq_? 20:36:06 heirloom.sf.net 20:36:09 norman256394, well? 20:36:13 something like the interface of the future 20:36:22 highly interactive 20:36:28 smooth transitions 20:36:28 pikhq_, what does it have that i might be missing? 20:36:37 hmm, I suppose that's basically almost ontopic here, if it's insane enough by today's standards (which is different from being insane overall, but that tends to happen too) 20:36:43 norman256394, but would it be smoothly differentiable? 20:36:45 cheater_: Nothing, really. 20:36:48 and almost ontopic is much better than we normally manage 20:36:59 -!- atome has joined. 20:37:07 cheater_: It's just got the traditional utils instead of the GNU stuff. 20:37:13 it's not going to be anything ground-breaking 20:37:34 Hmm. I wonder if I could even possibly manage to get Busybox to build with pcc. 20:37:40 just was thinking if anyone could help me navigate the intricacies of designing such a user-interface 20:37:57 something like the interface of the future 20:38:07 Feh, not going to work on it, cause I have developed a hatred for everything of late. 20:38:17 You should probably talk to elliott about that so he can tell you why your ideas are bad and you should feel bad. 20:38:21 Read: iPhone interfaces 20:38:37 ais523: Any idea what the last version of GCC that was compiler-agnostic? 20:38:41 Is it better to look smooth or be fast? 20:38:51 Erm, what was. 20:38:52 Sgeo_, what a stupid question. 20:38:57 It's obviously not a dichotomy. 20:39:13 anyone got the link to the archive.org video of the lightpen demonstration 20:39:14 Smooth, fast, natural 20:39:30 Out of the two extremes... hideous but fast is preferable to beautiful but unusably slow. 20:39:32 you should check it out 20:39:51 Phantom_Hoover, what if you expect the beauty 20:40:05 and like, you'd rather mail-order mona lisa than stare at a blank wall 20:40:07 ais523: Oh, and the reason I was using PCC in the first place was that it's genuinely *obnoxious* to try and get an i686-pc-linux-gnu cross compiler. 20:40:09 blank walls are very responsive. 20:40:19 I guess I have come to appreciate the importance of speed after having worked on the likes of SAP, with its laggy interface 20:40:26 It shouldn't be hard, but it is. 20:40:35 Because EVERYBODY'S BUILD SYSTEM SUCKS 20:40:36 What about reorienting a phone? Show an animation of it changing, or instantly change? 20:40:48 (I'm pretty sure I saw this sort of thing in an iPhone flamewar) 20:41:06 what about instead of having the phone change.. 20:41:16 have the whole world change around the phone and have the phone stay put? 20:41:31 Isn't that equivalent? 20:41:31 sort of CPS style 20:41:35 it's dual. 20:41:44 As you can tell, I'm quite *happy* with the state of UNIX right now. 20:41:44 that's better than equivalent. 20:41:47 No, because the animation is not very expensive. 20:41:53 there should be a tag in here to mark sentences that are meant to be taken as humourous/sarcastic 20:41:56 or what about having the co-telephone not-turn? 20:42:01 It's not on the level of, say, Compiz taken to crazy levels. 20:42:03 Phantom_Hoover, I should note hat cheater_ is speaking 20:42:29 pikhq_: C-INTERCAL's build system handles all cross-compile combinations quite well 20:42:33 norman256394, that tag is 20:42:36 :p 20:42:40 :P 20:42:48 it was designed by looking at gcc's build system, deciding it was an awful buggy mess that nobody should use ever, and doing something entirely different 20:42:54 * Sgeo_ swats cheater_ 20:42:58 ais523: Correct answer. 20:43:21 I think... 20:43:21 norman256394, you can try ais523's solution. 20:43:35 It does have the caveat that noöne except ais thinks it work. 20:43:37 *works 20:43:51 Phantom_Hoover: solution to what? 20:43:59 ais523, sarcasm. 20:44:01 the life, the universe, and everything. 20:44:05 * pikhq_ looks at it. 20:44:18 Your "take it seriously in an attempt to make everything absurd" tactic. 20:44:41 ais523: I approve of your pedantry so far. 20:44:44 I think IRC should be more like facebook 20:44:52 dnl Don't assume yacc exists just because bison doesn't (wtf autoconf...) 20:44:55 ... Wut. 20:45:01 it's hard to keep track of conversations in here. :| 20:45:26 Reddit might be easier for you? 20:45:30 it gets easier with practice 20:45:40 norman256394, and then i went to the kitcchen. funny, right? 20:45:45 pikhq_: hey, if autoconf is being stupid and I work around it, I may as well document what I've done and why 20:46:00 software should change for the users 20:46:08 not the other way round! :) 20:46:17 norman256394: yep 20:46:23 but someone has to write the compatibility layers in between 20:46:23 WRONG 20:46:25 to make it do that 20:46:27 everyone should adjust to vim. 20:46:28 norman256394, different niches, though. 20:46:31 -!- atome has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:47:03 Especially decades old software with decades old standards that its current users, of which there many, are quite comfortable with 20:47:11 (Not sure if decades gets pluralized) 20:47:24 ais523: Yes, I'm "Wut"ing at autoconf, not at you. 20:47:32 ah, OK 20:47:46 I'm not sure if it's a bug or a silly assumption 20:48:00 but it's definitely implausible 20:48:19 Sgeo_, decades is plural already. 20:48:22 ok...nice talking to you guys. But my IRC client is just plain too ugly to continue staring at for too long. 20:48:22 FYI. 20:48:46 cheater_, as in, I was uncertain if IRC history spanned two decades. 20:48:47 norman256394, that's what i think about one of my coworkers 20:48:50 Anyways, got a clue what GCC version(s) are compiler agnostic? 20:48:57 i started working from home though so it's alright 20:49:04 pikhq_: I knew once, but have long since forgotten 20:49:06 lol 20:49:15 I'm going to go out on a limb and guess it's 2.x. 20:49:37 pikhq_, bootstrapping gcc? 20:50:07 -!- norman256394 has quit (Quit: http://irc2go.com/). 20:50:16 Is there a recorded history somewhere of what older versions of gcc were used to compile newer versions etc.? Because that would make interesting reading imo 20:50:25 Sgeo_: Do you have any idea how fucking ridiculously painful it is to get an i686-pc-linux-musl compiler from x86_64-pc-linux-gnu? 20:50:54 Right now I'm only asking out of personal curiosity, because I HATE GNU. 20:51:21 No idea. Um, not even sure what you're referring to, exactly. Which machine are you on? 20:51:31 What binary do you have? 20:51:40 I should be able to parse this from your question, but I can't 20:52:18 I had a correctly functioning i686-pc-linux-musl pcc (okay, so it thought that it was i686-pc-linux-gnulibc1, but whatever). Problem is, nothing will build with that. 20:52:53 And it wasn't the libc's fault. musl can actually support a reasonable system (... if you don't mind a lack of C++). 20:53:15 Sgeo_, what's musl? 20:53:31 cheater_, um, ask pikhq_? 20:53:32 musl is a libc. 20:53:47 It doesn't suck. 20:53:48 Sgeo_, apparently asking you worked too 20:54:01 pikhq_, what does it do better than glibc? 20:54:18 cheater_: It has size comparable to dietlibc and performance comparable to glibc. 20:55:04 (in some cases better, in some cases worse. Has at-least-as-good big-O performance.) 20:56:07 cheater_: everything is better than glibc 20:56:47 What do MS's compilers use? 20:56:48 glibc is pretty bloated, and has absolutely convoluted code. 20:57:19 Sgeo_: msvcrt 20:57:29 "Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime". 20:58:26 Incidentally, they've been doing compilers for quite a while... That libc traces its way back to their C compiler for DOS in 1983. 21:00:12 The same libc is used by mingw. 21:00:22 -!- clog has joined. 21:01:32 ya it's funny 21:01:39 since mingw stands for minimal gnu for windows 21:01:41 but like.. 21:01:46 it's not using a gnu libc. 21:01:48 amirite. 21:02:42 Yeah, it's just GCC and binutils. msys adds a few more bits (bash, coreutils, make), but... Yeah. Utterly devoid of glibc. 21:02:47 So's cygwin. 21:03:17 pikhq_, why does glibc suck so much? 21:03:23 Is it just classic GNU bloat? 21:03:37 Classic GNU bloat. 21:04:10 As well as an avoidance of simple algorithms. 21:04:18 what is classic gnu bloat? 21:05:03 cheater_: They love creeping featuritis and premature optimisation. 21:05:30 As well as truly awful hacks that are not exactly necessary. 21:05:39 21:04:18: what is classic gnu bloat? 21:05:51 The simple answer to this is "true.c in the binutils source". 21:06:19 Coreutils has its own implementation of buffered IO. 21:06:31 got a link to that? 21:06:53 Oh, sorry, that's gnulib. 21:07:07 Which itself gets relevant bits copied into program source. 21:07:25 They claim it's for 'portability'. 21:07:36 Some of it actually increases portability. 21:07:50 Some of it is utterly retarded. 21:08:29 If it includes stdio-impl.h, it is definitely utterly retarded. 21:08:32 http://sourceware.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/src/?cvsroot=src 21:08:42 could be somewhere in here 21:08:43 Would you like to guess what that does? 21:09:04 It... implicity includes stdio? 21:09:13 Phantom_Hoover: Oh, no no no, much worse than that. 21:09:18 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:09:24 defines some constants? 21:09:29 Nope. 21:09:44 gnuifies the binary? 21:09:48 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:09:49 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 21:09:49 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:09:51 well, tell us 21:10:00 cheater_, BtW, try true --version and --help, if your shell doesn't alias it. 21:10:02 It contains the definition of FILE for every libc they support. 21:10:17 Not FILE*, but the struct actually pointed to by it. 21:10:57 Aha, http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/coreutils.git/tree/src/true.c 21:11:00 Oh, it's coreutils. 21:11:02 Phantom_Hoover, ok so you mean coreutils 21:11:03 yeah 21:11:06 I always mix the two up. 21:11:11 78 line. 21:11:13 *lines 21:11:42 13 preprocessor statements. 21:11:49 2 functions. 21:12:35 Indeed, coreutils' copy of gnulib seems to contain most of a libc. 21:12:58 ... *it actually contains a printf*‽ 21:13:23 IT LITERALLY HAS A PRINTF. 21:13:38 what is so bad about this thing? 21:13:42 You think I'm kidding, but no, it literally has a printf. 21:13:58 true.c doesn't seem so bad. 21:14:10 defines some help, some other stuff, and does its job too. 21:14:18 cheater_: Allow me to give you a true.c. 21:14:23 int main(){return 1;} 21:14:33 how do i find the usage for it 21:14:40 man 21:14:47 what about having --usage 21:15:02 which is actually a common thing 21:15:18 Perhaps you'd be more revolted by cat. 21:15:25 why 21:15:33 http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/coreutils.git/tree/src/cat.c 21:16:25 1,000 lines of code. Pokes around libc internals. Uses its own buffered IO on top of stdio. 21:16:52 What does filenotfound return? 21:17:03 Also, wouldn't true.c return 0? 21:17:30 And has significantly more options than is even slightly necessary. 21:17:42 (the following options are required by POSIX for cat: -u 21:17:43 ) 21:18:22 https://github.com/pikhq/pikhq-coreutils/blob/master/cat/cat.c For comparison. 21:19:00 1/10th the size, billions of times more portable. 21:22:01 why is it billions of times more portable 21:22:28 pikhq_, typo in the comment on line 36. 21:22:28 Their cat *literally is fucking around with libc internals*. 21:22:40 where? 21:23:13 It's in some functions they pull in from elsewhere in the source tree. 21:23:39 Yes I do think GNU programs are bloated, but it is good they write those programs anyways. Especially since they wrote the license too. Now the same license can be used with other programs, including other programs that are based on the GNU programs. 21:23:52 I dislike GNU long options. 21:24:36 Phantom_Hoover: That ain't a typo, you git. 21:24:59 It's a perfectly valid, though admittedly non-US, spelling. 21:25:07 ...mesage? 21:25:11 Oh. 21:25:14 Didn't see that. 21:25:16 XD 21:25:24 I once asked them why they make large GNU program like that, they didn't give a very good answer in my opinion 21:25:29 "Unrecognised." Thought that was what you were talking about. 21:25:32 Also: you know that I'm not from the US, right? 21:26:08 Do I care? :P 21:26:13 Anyways, pushed. 21:26:39 Phantom_Hoover: How do you think someone will know that? Did you post that information somewhere, such as esolang wiki? You have cloak enabled so it is hard to know these kind of things? 21:31:37 -!- pikhq has joined. 21:34:03 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:37:43 So. Everybody is wrong at everything; any arguments? 21:40:57 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:41:02 pikhq: wrong 21:41:11 (you walked into that one) 21:46:49 pikhq: Yes. Including you are wrong at this. And the argument is also wrong. 21:52:11 Gregor, I am sorely disappointed at the loss of searchable logs of this place. 21:52:17 Please fix your hg ones or something. 21:58:52 -!- elliott_ has joined. 21:59:17 , 21:59:30 -!- elliott_ has changed nick to elliott. 21:59:32 x 21:59:32 elliott: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 21:59:57 -!- elliott has quit (Changing host). 21:59:57 -!- elliott has joined. 22:03:35 * pikhq flips off pcc for a bit 22:03:58 pcc sux 22:04:20 Shouldn't be hard to get it to actually function right. 22:04:35 what are you tryin 22:04:42 it might be that malloc(0) in cpp 22:04:46 that broke it with dietlibc 22:05:31 Right *now*, just trying to get a normal pcc on x86_64-pc-linux-gnu 22:05:40 Its output segfaults. 22:06:36 It segfaults with the program counter at 0x01. 22:08:43 is there a shell which does *not* alias true? 22:09:14 ksh, bash, sh, dash, zsh all do it 22:09:31 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 22:10:05 tcsh doesn't 22:11:18 "Alias"? 22:11:51 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: FIN). 22:13:35 "troll"? 22:14:24 i'm not sure of the relevance; after all, I'm not an alias, so that hardly works 22:15:32 yeah. good thing we're not playing synonyms then, right? 22:22:08 none of them "alias" it as you say 22:22:20 Vorpal: TROLL?????? 22:22:42 elliott, yes they all troll true until it gives up and ignore them 22:22:56 that is why they implement it as a shell builtin 22:23:14 since the one in /bin refuses to have anything to do with them 22:23:24 elliott, happy? 22:23:49 elliott, speaking of which, how goes the spec 22:27:15 -!- elliott_ has joined. 22:27:19 cheater just disconnected me from the internet as a warning 22:27:50 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:28:52 -!- elliott__ has joined. 22:28:56 what is my connection even doing 22:29:47 elliott__, it is having a hangover 22:31:03 interestingly, translating the Swedish word for "hangover" literally to English yields "backsmash" 22:31:25 lj 22:31:29 elliott__, "lj"? 22:31:51 -!- elliott_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:32:02 elliott__, what do you mean with lj? 22:32:02 ijsd 22:32:08 also stop pinging me :D 22:32:18 elliott__, I'll stop once you make sense 22:32:34 elliott__, I blame the current "lj" and "ijsd" on your connection 22:32:58 me toae@¶ŧ 22:33:57 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 22:33:59 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:34:33 Now, then. I have a functioning pcc. 22:34:38 Again. 22:34:46 That is i686-pc-linux-musl. 22:34:48 Again. 22:34:51 pikhq_, why do you care about ppc? 22:34:53 err 22:34:54 pcc* 22:35:06 I'm sure I had a reason when I started. 22:35:13 (having a functioning i686 ppc would be amusing) 22:35:16 Right now, it's stubborness. 22:42:29 pikhq_, how long have you been working on this 22:44:09 Today. 23:07:40 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:12:43 make[2]: *** No rule to make target `../.././gcc/libgcc.mvars'. Stop. 23:12:49 ... What. 23:16:23 -!- pikhq has joined. 23:19:45 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:25:42 My favourite expansion hack is mkdir z; mv *; mv z foo. Try to do that with a smarter mv. 23:25:50 wow that's an interesting use of * 23:25:51 and pretty eso 23:26:10 elliott__: are you caught up logreading, btw? 23:26:20 ais523: I wasn't planning to; should I? 23:26:33 Well, you'll just see me being angry at everything and everyone forever. 23:26:54 elliott__: not necessarily, it's just that some things happened that I thought you might have reactions to, but you probably don't care much 23:27:08 also, at the NEC today, I saw a place marked "food & bar" in really large letters (I'm talking at least 10 metres high) 23:27:09 * elliott__ reads 23:27:12 only someone had removed the d 23:27:15 so it said foo & bar instead 23:27:24 I wonder if it was actually a metasyntactic varaible vote, or concidence? 23:27:26 ais523: That was my initial parse even with the "d" there. 23:27:32 pikhq: heh 23:28:23 I think there's actually a bar called the Foo Bar 23:29:00 13:55:58: http://lee.fov120.com/ecoop.pdf a paper advocating for "prototype multiple dispatch" 23:29:05 is this the Slate stuff? 23:29:54 I'm getting this sense that Sam Hughes' soul has been sucked out by something. 23:30:10 Working at IBM? 23:30:29 Also, are you sure it's not your soul that's been sucked? 23:30:36 ais523: am i meant to be commenting on sgeo 23:31:00 elliott__: later, there was someone turning up about esoterica, and then got vaguely sucked into esoprogramming 23:31:14 also some trolling from cheater that even I recognised as trolling, but I didn't say anything 23:31:44 A wiser strategy than the reciprocation the rest of us get sucked into. 23:32:08 17:46:33: hey, remember when everyone here mocked me for saying I was entering a Pokémon championship, and saying I had no chance? 23:32:09 we did that? 23:32:15 I don't recall doing that :< 23:32:37 I recall us asserting that he had little chance, because Pokémon tourny players are quite intense about it. 23:32:44 Not much on the "mocking" though. 23:32:56 ah, fair enough 23:33:03 but this channel generally did, I forget who 23:33:06 Why mock someone for playing a good JRPG? 23:33:10 but it was more than one person 23:33:22 pikhq: it was for thinking I had a chance at doing well, rather than for playing it 23:33:39 people telling me I was underestimating the effort required, etc 23:33:40 Mmmm. 23:34:17 Well, it *is* rather a lot of work to be competitive. But apparently, you've done your due diligence. 23:34:54 I once asked them why they make large GNU program like that, they didn't give a very good answer in my opinion 23:35:06 :D 23:35:16 pikhq: pokemon is a /good/ jrpg? 23:35:18 it's 90 percent grinding 23:35:44 i am now envisioning stupid programmers being forced to explain their reasoning to zzo38 23:35:54 elliott__: Good mechanically. 23:36:00 elliott__: The plot is absolutely banal. 23:36:21 Sgeo_: HEY LOOK HOMESTUCK UPDAEJTROIJD 23:36:24 god its fun being on the other side of bugging 23:36:24 elliott__: not any more, there's a new experience formula in Black & White which removes most of the grinding, unless you want a really competitive team 23:36:42 ais523: heh, I even contemplated buying black or white yesterday or so 23:36:48 it takes me about 3 hours to get a perfectly-statted competitive Pokémon from near-scratch, if I'm allowed repeatable resources 23:37:00 that is, things that were hard to get in the first place but don't get used up in the process 23:37:03 elliott__: Also, 90% grinding is not that big of a deal for a game that's got like 10 or 15 hours to the "end". 23:37:24 pikhq: and around 400 or so hours to the actual end, where you fill the Pokédex, that hardly anyone ever reaches 23:37:31 pikhq: Well sure, but it's more addictive than anything :) 23:37:34 In the older generations 23:37:42 also, the plots have improved over time 23:37:46 ais523: I consider that, along with competition, to be post-game content. 23:37:54 ais523: sapphire imo was plot perfection 23:37:55 in Black & White, the plot is about on the level of a decent children's story 23:37:56 ERADICATE 23:37:56 ALL 23:37:57 WATER 23:38:08 elliott__: that was Ruby 23:38:12 oh was it 23:38:12 sapphire was FLOOD THE WORLD 23:38:14 same thing :) 23:38:14 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:38:20 Or, alternately, you could just say "the story bit is just a side thing". 23:38:20 it's a very, very special kind of stupidity that these villains run on 23:38:36 new in Black & White, the villains actually have plausible motivations 23:38:43 all of them, even if some of them contradict each other 23:38:44 Emerald was better. 23:38:46 and others are being manipulated 23:38:52 ERADICATE ALL WATER *and* FLOOD THE WORLD 23:39:20 ais523: So it'll be literary fiction in a few hundred years? 23:39:25 I have to say out of all of the Pokemon games I've played, third generation was the most fun. 23:39:33 but I haven't played 4 or 5. 23:40:05 elliott__: perhaps 23:40:07 but yes, the villains are always stupid. 23:40:21 CakeProphet: I think the 4th gen remakes of the 2nd gen games are best 23:40:33 but 5th gen has been growing on me, I used to dislike it a lot but now I rank it pretty high 23:40:42 ah, well yes. Any remake of the original games is going to be awesome as well. 23:40:44 I've got a soft spot in my heart for 2nd gen. 23:40:57 what's fifth gen 23:41:02 black & white, so far 23:41:05 and Pokédex 3D 23:41:07 Haven't played 4th or 5th gen, due to not owning a DS. 23:41:09 and some other pointless spinoffs 23:41:22 the generation number is basically about how many Pokémon are involved 23:41:27 btw, is the 3DS' 3D actually any good 23:41:29 I'd say third generation is the last generation in which they had good pokemon concepts. 23:41:45 overall. 23:42:04 CakeProphet: i suspect nostalgia goggles 23:42:18 elliott__: actually no, I didn't play third generation until like two years ago. 23:42:21 Shame, too. If they got actually desperate they could start spelunking mythology. ... And risk becoming Megaten. 23:42:26 Which would actually be awesome. 23:42:32 CakeProphet: bah :) 23:42:54 pikhq: how do you not own a DS? even /ais/ owns a DS 23:43:10 elliott__: possible bias in that I haven't actually /played/ fourth and fifth generation. I've only watched other people and looked up some of the pokemon via wiki and thought they were lame. 23:43:11 btw, is the 3DS' 3D actually any good 23:43:13 elliott__: 100 applicants per job opening. Any further questions? 23:43:17 It works, if that's what you mean. 23:43:29 pikhq: PAH :P 23:43:31 * CakeProphet does not own a DS..? 23:43:34 Phantom_Hoover: Yes but I mean is it annoying. 23:43:42 elliott__, also yeah, you forget pikhq lives in a less developed country than us. 23:43:48 And I can't answer that. 23:43:51 Phantom_Hoover: Oh right. 23:44:13 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 23:45:10 interestingly, translating the Swedish word for "hangover" literally to English yields "backsmash" 23:45:16 wait which word 23:46:04 norwegian is "bakrus" but "rus" doesn't mean smash, it means intoxication 23:46:26 e.g. up to Mew is 1st gen, if you go up to Celebi it's 2nd gen, up to Deoxys is 3rd gen, up to Arceus is 4th gen, and up to (as yet unreleased event Pokémon) is 5th gen 23:46:59 that wasn't lag, that was me forgetting to press return because I was trying to help deal with a spontaneously exploding glass oven door 23:47:05 ais523: I just want to know when MISSINGNO will be an official part of the Pokédex. 23:47:23 elliott__: you do realise it doesn't exist, right? 23:47:35 As #000. 23:47:40 ais523: By what definition of "doesn't exist"? 23:47:48 it isn't even #000 23:47:57 It certainly existed in Stadium (Stadium 2, JP). 23:48:03 Bulbapedia says it's #000 in the national ddddex, but maybe that's wrong. 23:48:18 well, for one thing it's spelt MISSINGNO. with a dot, but more to the point it has no stats defined but a nam 23:48:20 *name 23:48:30 everything else is unrelated memory interpreted as stats 23:48:52 ais523: Plenty of games for such platforms are coded with weird bit-twiddling hacks. 23:48:52 yessss, mexican food. 23:48:55 The implementation is rather irrelevant. 23:49:25 #000 Unova dex is Victini, they decided to put an actual event mon there 23:49:37 although event mons are a ridiculous concept 23:49:50 I think #000 has been DP Box for a while now 23:49:56 and #000 in first gen was Cancel 23:49:59 event... mon? 23:50:14 like, a jamaican dude? 23:50:16 the menu option that you use to not select anything 23:50:20 CakeProphet: short for "monster" 23:50:35 just like Pokémon was "pocket monster" before it was contracted to settle a trademark dispute 23:51:19 and an event Pokémon is one you can only get by going to a particular Nintendo / tPCI distribution in real life 23:51:24 or by hacking 23:51:32 ais523: or trading, presumably? 23:51:36 or in some cases, via glitch 23:51:42 elliott__: well, that doesn't increase the number in the world 23:51:48 but sure, if you can find someone willing to part with one 23:51:49 "The Qi JT? POké BB de W N type is the type of the glitch moves TM14 and TM17. Part of the name of this type changes to match the player's name, and another part changes to match the name of the player's Pokémon at the front of the party. For example, if the player's name was ASH and the active Pokémon's name was PIKACHU, the name of this type would be Qi JTASH? POké BBPIKACHU de W N." 23:52:09 or who's not above cloning them via glitches or hacks 23:52:19 ais523: annoying artificial scarcity :( 23:52:25 WishBliss must have been cloned so many times 23:52:43 It's easy to poison the market by just cloning one a few times and spreading it around, anyway 23:53:00 possibly the most infamous event Pokémon in existence, because it was distributed in a pretty narrow distribution (only in New York), is legal in competitive battles, and is really good 23:53:33 ais523: It wasn't contracted to settle a trademark dispute... 23:53:40 "I've heard it from too many people so now I just gotta ask. Is Wish-Blissey seriously banned? I know its hard to get and all having to trade all the way from XD but come on now. Is this serious or is this just Colin's crap from official (Which noone cares bout) still not flushing properly?" 23:53:41 Well this makes no sense. 23:53:43 ais523: It was contracted for the sake of not being Engrish. 23:54:03 elliott__: no it isn't banned, and it doesn't come from XD, someone is trolling 23:54:04 ais523: It's still sold as "poketto monsutā" in Japan. 23:54:06 "noone" ugh 23:54:13 CakeProphet: what's wrong with "noone"? 23:54:23 It omits a diaeresis, but so does everyone 23:54:24 Insufficient ö. 23:54:24 it's not one word, for starters. 23:54:26 ais523: there seems to be no bulbapedia article for WishBliss 23:54:28 especially blaming Colin for everything, it's quite a sine of a troll 23:54:32 CakeProphet: Yes, it is. 23:54:37 elliott__: it's probably in the article about Blissey or Chansey 23:54:57 CakeProphet: Note that in "no-one", the hyphen is simply taking the place of a diæresis above the second letter. 23:55:02 i.e. noöne. 23:55:08 But it's perfectly valid to simply omit the diæresis altogether. 23:55:12 oh, strange, Bulbapedia doesn't even mention it as existing 23:55:23 ais523: SHHHHHHHHHHH 23:55:24 Wish is nowhere in the learnset 23:55:25 elliott__: right, but "noone" is silly and should never be used. no-one is fine. 23:55:40 CakeProphet: I am stunned by your flawless justification. 23:55:44 yep 23:55:50 I mean, it should be obvious why it's bad. 23:55:52 I don't use "noone" either for aesthetic concerns, but to say it's not a word is ridiculous :P 23:56:00 ah no, it's just hidden in a subpage 23:56:12 http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_Nintendo_event_Pok%C3%A9mon_in_2004#Wish_Chansey 23:56:17 it's a non-standard word, at least. People use it, but they probably need to die or something. -shrug- 23:56:46 Where's augur when you need him? 23:57:04 I think that's also the only way to get Sweet Scent on a Chansey/Blissey, but nobody cares 23:57:14 Just a small English language pet peeve of mine, one of few. 23:58:19 Honeſtly, if you're going to go preſcriptiviſt, you ſhould go all þe way. 23:58:46 CakeProphet: can i pick on you for saying a bunch of non-standard shit that shakespeare just made up for shits and giggles? 23:58:52 It's a PET PEEVE 23:59:04 a Nenglishsure 23:59:10 :)