< 1308875233 977554 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1308875760 272062 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1308876698 494321 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1308876810 75499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1308880320 782280 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1308880843 910777 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, I wonder whether there are any compilers that are computable bijections. < 1308880882 350230 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a program that compiles Unlambda to Brainfuck, such that every possible Brainfuck program is given by exactly one Unlambda program? < 1308880912 533463 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, just insert a nonce or hash at the end < 1308880918 358433 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1308880952 513899 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computable bijective compilers obviously exist in some cases (like compiling a language to itself), so perhaps they exist in call cases. At least, languages that can be compiled to and fro at all. < 1308880993 739493 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you figure it will be a unique mapping? < 1308880995 356782 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: yes, but will that make it so that every possible Brainfuck program is given by at least one Unlambda program? < 1308881013 625433 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm... < 1308881021 456574 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: what do you mean? The question is whether it's possible to make it a unique mapping or not. < 1308881023 230798 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for(;;) { }, while(1) { }; ... /*comment*/ /* comment */ < 1308881026 985416 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :every possible brainfuck program as in every combination of valid syntactical symbols or every possible turing machine it could be? < 1308881037 920579 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bijection implies 1:1 mapping. < 1308881039 527454 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: the former. < 1308881063 792349 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :even C <-> C isnt 1:1 < 1308881080 512742 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: well, you can simply compile each C program to itself. Voila, one-to-one mapping. < 1308881109 553313 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey I think they have a program called cat for that. < 1308881132 944267 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone ever made a C interpreter? < 1308881142 571992 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want to discount changes in syntax? ie. doI have to translate each comment properly? whiespace and indentation? < 1308881160 437174 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :patashu: many people have. or do you means specifically in this room? < 1308881169 44116 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: the bijection only needs to preserve program behavior. It can add or remove comments ad libitum. < 1308881204 843360 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so there is one < 1308881211 734239 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: can I use comments in the bijection? ie. can I translate for(;;) in C to while(true) { /*for*/ in java? < 1308881224 167424 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that I know who to map it back to C later? < 1308881233 167448 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :If uncomputable mappings were allowed, this would be pretty easy. We're given an Unlambda program. Enumerate all Unlambda programs that behave the same way, and suppose this is the nth. Enumerate all Brainfuck programs that also behave that way; output the nth. < 1308881237 558599 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: yes, that's allowed. < 1308881264 730885 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Futurama < 1308881281 693697 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically I just have to compile from one language to another language, and capture the original program in comments. < 1308881314 395647 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: well, it must be a bijection. That means that (supposing you're translating from Unlambda to Brainfuck) every Brainfuck program must be possible to produce somehow. < 1308881323 869357 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically: translate = compile to exe, and write a virtual machine that interprets exes < 1308881401 309444 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm skeptical. < 1308881437 69241 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, there's a reason it's a question rather than a statement. :) < 1308881448 502333 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, for example, I dont think you'll find a bijection between C and python, because of how comments and whitespace are handled differently in the two languages < 1308881475 300273 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's easy to, say, strip out all the comments and whitespace, and then encode them back in once you're done. < 1308881491 682683 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because I can encode comments in different ways < 1308881503 990084 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can encode // comment and /* comment */ in C < 1308881507 92449 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not in python < 1308881541 532253 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308881582 752786 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you strip out all the comments and whitespace, just turn all the information that you just got into an integer. < 1308881603 247376 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: ok, say you do that for every possible C program comment. < 1308881613 873030 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, whats the bijection from every possible python program? < 1308881645 681711 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember: I might have a python comment that has an integer in it < 1308881652 637032 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given a program with no comments or excess whitespace, there are countably many ways to add comments and whitespace to it. This is the same for C and for Python. Therefore, it must be possible to encode all the comments and whitespace as an integer, and to decode that integer to produce comments and whitespace. < 1308881673 489892 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, take your C comments and whitespace, turn them into an integer, and turn that integer into Python comments and whitespace. < 1308881693 103780 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where are you outputting this integer? < 1308881698 421047 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :into a comment? < 1308881701 221705 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just an ennumeration < 1308881713 448015 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a bijection, the data has to be encoded in the output < 1308881737 165492 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you take all the comments from my C program and encode it into the number "42" as a comment in the python program < 1308881743 592578 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now what happens when you reverse map that program? < 1308881743 951227 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: the integer becomes represented by all of the whitespace and comments in the resulting Python code. Every possible combination of whitespace and comments in Python corresponds to exactly one integer. < 1308881790 85322 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1308881856 381568 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now when I translate a python program with the comment "42" in it, it goes back to a C program with lots of textual comments? < 1308881875 965258 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when I translate a python program with the comment "42!" in it it goes back to a C program with just a single integer in its comments? < 1308881964 557367 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :A C program whose comments are represented by the number 42 doesn't become a Python program with the comment "42" in it. It becomes a Python program whose comments are represented by the number 42. < 1308881990 240733 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where are you encoding that number in the python program? < 1308882006 12737 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have f :: C -> Py, and g :: Py -> C < 1308882016 527042 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the 42 has to be somewhere in the Py. < 1308882041 703650 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have f :: C -> Integer and g :: Py -> Integer. Then, to get C -> Py and Py -> C, you take g^-1 . f and f^-1 . g. < 1308882155 57712 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait.. you're assuming you have functions that enumerate both C and Py programs that have the same functionality :) < 1308882181 544895 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I call shenanigans < 1308882196 979183 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :how else are you going to do it? < 1308882259 116569 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :patashu: you just shifted the problem.. let me restate my original question in your new shifted problem. give me f and g for C and python comments. < 1308882267 263118 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cant do it. < 1308882306 600687 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually.. wait.. you prob can do it for comments alone. < 1308882343 557944 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thats because you avoid the constraint that they have to run the same way. < 1308882348 770589 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so any enumeration of comments works. < 1308882477 942927 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, how about this. whats the bijection between SKI calc with C++ comments and SKI calc with python comments. < 1308882495 510385 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm that might be too easy too < 1308882516 895160 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, i'm getting more convinced that your approach can work when ther is a bijection < 1308882563 668745 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think an interesting test case would be SKI with c++ comments to lambda calc with python comments. < 1308882579 969040 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ignore whitespace, but deal with variable renaming) < 1308882607 182522 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the comments in one program has to encode for the comments+variablenames in the other program < 1308882652 509381 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also has to encode for the choice of which type of comments are used < 1308882679 871444 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION watches Futurama fail at math < 1308882779 266150 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's probably intentional. < 1308882831 979239 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some kinda rendering error? < 1308883045 4516 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just ignore comments and insignificant whitespace, since they have no semantic effect? < 1308883057 536667 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: yeah, doing comments is the easy part. < 1308883066 974733 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you might as well, I guess. < 1308883223 701868 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1308884470 320439 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1308884653 286314 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1308885378 218871 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1308885441 196221 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1308885539 51197 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308885539 436731 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Changing host < 1308885539 585453 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1308885649 99472 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1308885794 566555 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308885824 867482 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TF2 is free forever now < 1308885929 476191 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nice. < 1308885949 596555 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might go download it then. < 1308886206 61386 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1308886240 214228 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308886240 700264 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Changing host < 1308886240 848974 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1308886984 979727 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1308887068 172438 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIL about Perl "bless". < 1308887105 882496 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: How do you continue to be coherent? Surely your brain has a giant tumor by now? < 1308887121 241186 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what? < 1308887207 290199 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excuse me, I have to be incoherent for a bit, that is just too terrible. < 1308887310 508983 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is? Perl's bless? < 1308887313 365657 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles < 1308887482 991135 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIL? < 1308887487 878553 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1308887522 513611 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wait I thought you had experience with Perl already? You should have already learned about bless. :P < 1308887535 454419 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE < 1308887546 765163 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, Perl's OO is pretty stupid, not going to lie. < 1308887557 698101 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MURDER THE MAN WHO BROUGHT THIS INTO THE WORLD < 1308887645 858536 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I've never made a class in Perl. < 1308887648 412978 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no point.. < 1308887691 398760 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only reason I would make a class in Perl is if I were designing a CPAN package that was intended to be subclassed. < 1308887843 195384 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1308887925 804067 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308887972 214121 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1308888087 230525 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I usually just program imperitively/procedurally in Perl. < 1308888138 885318 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the OO stuff was just kind of thrown in Perl 5 simply for the sake of having it, and doesn't really integrate into the language very well. < 1308888247 674426 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, look at how shitty inheritance is: < 1308888266 220051 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :package Bot::RoleBot; our @ISA = qw(Bot::BasicBot); < 1308888283 58605 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1308888286 404529 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :inheritance = set this magic method resolution list < 1308888316 55994 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, for those who don't know: qw(a b c) = ('a', 'b', 'c') < 1308888322 722748 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gross < 1308888371 278486 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love qw because it allows me to be incredibly lazy. :D < 1308888384 109713 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cuts off CakeProphet's arms < 1308888409 16081 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't ruby have those things too? gross. < 1308888426 546350 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure, actually. I know Ruby has q and qq. < 1308888436 47540 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're all the same to me < 1308888477 521213 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. meaningless language-defiling syntactic sugar that should not exist < 1308888486 348565 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :q and qq are good ideas, believe it or not. Because it allows you to avoid escaping quotes within strings. < 1308888554 588875 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :q{I can't believe how easy it's to type English's sentences and stuff.} < 1308888570 598490 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :only comes up occasionally though. < 1308888588 924437 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like when you're trying to nest 20 strings within one another and evaling them all off... you know, it happens. < 1308888602 77383 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1308888603 415617 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't < 1308888604 231669 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever < 1308888604 978846 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :happen < 1308888609 916988 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :check the #esoteric logs. :P < 1308888618 213186 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone is a bad person < 1308888639 612892 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you search for something like q{q[q( you'll probably find it < 1308888666 150320 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or q!q@q#q$q% < 1308888668 569754 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1308888709 52354 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: don't tell me you're against sugar in principle. That would be silly. < 1308888728 302768 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing it's just this particular form of it? < 1308888748 959613 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer providing a more general extensible interface like macros < 1308888762 425157 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in some cases e.g. string literals it can be a necessary evil < 1308888806 455660 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you don't think it's a good idea to allow overriding the delimiter so that you can avoid ugly \'s? < 1308888862 844223 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you'd be able to do it well enough with a macro if your macro system is cool???? < 1308888871 803079 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I guess so. < 1308888872 773035 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: why would you want to do it, provided your code is sane < 1308888890 51396 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Well, in Tcl it makes a *little* bit of sense I guess. < 1308888907 66008 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval q|some code goes here| < 1308888907 496143 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1308888920 881150 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Seeing as you typically do metaprogramming based on constructing strings. < 1308888938 395663 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it usually comes up when you're dealing with strings that contain code. Or for example, when you're executing a shell command you can use qx instead of ` < 1308888967 416683 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try to keep my code out of strings < 1308888987 105692 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :put them in lists/symbols if necessary but < 1308889006 152384 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where by lists I mean nested lists representing a syntax tree < 1308889015 552595 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :strings is quite icky to me < 1308889034 325777 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Tcl, a list is just a particular form of string, so... < 1308889034 635598 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then you're weird. :P < 1308889074 878387 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :strings are so unstructured < 1308889083 255505 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1308889097 646238 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(specifically, a string that possesses structure, like you would expect of a list) < 1308889105 283187 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one they're serial < 1308889134 589565 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see what you're saying. Well yes, when you need structure you can use lists/trees. strings are quite fine for what they're intended for. < 1308889182 440689 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :strings just represent an unparsed form of a structure. for example, a parser can't just magically form a parse tree from a file, it needs to read it as a string first. < 1308889256 317273 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well parse it before treating it as code please < 1308889299 558631 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quines are another example of where q comes in handy. < 1308889396 257068 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :here you're not concerned with the code itself, simply the string of the source code. That's a somewhat common case of where string literals are used. Not just in handling source code to be executed, but also in handling code to be manipulated/generated/output < 1308889503 44200 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a script that outputs HTML source, for example, will probably contain some string literals containing double quotes. < 1308889562 166432 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way guys I'd rather do this ////////'foo////////' < 1308889584 42538 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s'/'\' < 1308889588 996386 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1308889594 932747 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1308889595 84542 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see what I did there? :P ) < 1308889598 350463 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of s notation is that < 1308889603 171711 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl's... < 1308889624 725511 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use any delimeter you want. I used ', which also signifies that there's no interpolation. Thus I didn't have to worry about escaping things. < 1308889636 563721 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in much the same way that a ' string literal works. < 1308889641 111370 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, neat < 1308889766 685802 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's typically when s''' is used, when you have literal backslashes. I see s{}{} used when there are forward slashes. < 1308889789 747358 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can even do s#stuff#here#, and Perl won't parse the # as beginning a comment. < 1308889821 296710 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's a stupid delimiter. don't ever do that. :P < 1308890463 448208 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl's actually not illegible if write neat code. Obviously the best way for me to support this point is to show you some abusive code I wrote a few days ago. < 1308890467 329965 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you write < 1308890478 418396 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :$msg .= "$_ commands: ".join (', ', map {$seen{$_}=1;$_} @{$cats{$_}}).' ' for sort {$b cmp $a} keys %cats; < 1308890481 446271 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :see? beautiful. < 1308890513 342779 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl 6? < 1308890517 206249 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, 5 < 1308890517 353266 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no < 1308890523 961121 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl 5 has methods on strings? < 1308890530 439283 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that's string concatenation. < 1308890536 191757 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1308890539 627132 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much Python, coppro? :P < 1308890541 196332 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually I see it with spaces < 1308890542 464139 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1308890549 120878 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :used to "a" . "b" < 1308890551 479100 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :not "a"."b" < 1308890560 58226 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, in Perl 6, those probably have different semantics < 1308890580 712437 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue actually. I have no read Perl 6 specs, but I do know that . is a method accessor thing. < 1308890586 627566 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno what string concatenation looks like. < 1308890609 579276 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess a space there wouldn't hurt. < 1308890621 648061 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ < 1308890652 548841 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :~? < 1308890669 910047 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :concatenation in perl 6 < 1308890721 992796 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. I wouldn't expect that to mean concatenation, but you shouldn't really expect symbols to mean something without knowing what they mean. < 1308890742 197798 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do like Perl 6's approach to unary functions on $_ < 1308890749 715763 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :unary . < 1308890773 631828 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a unary . signifies that $_ is being used? < 1308890780 656045 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1308890781 909224 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :.print < 1308890784 195946 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1308890785 307546 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :.print; < 1308890789 361165 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not bad, I suppose. < 1308890802 40855 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :explicit, but quick < 1308890814 162500 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me, Perl 6 seems very esoteric. < 1308890831 783643 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :more so than Perl 5, anyways. < 1308890877 842125 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1308890889 42995 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :my favorite feature is * < 1308890911 863780 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that. < 1308890920 602454 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1308890931 278527 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl 6: because Perl needs monads. < 1308890939 461049 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1308890960 499740 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1308890990 257194 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly, I kind of prefer that Perl devs focused on improving Perl 5 without adding radically new semantics/syntax everywhere. < 1308891004 523947 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+would < 1308891004 671196 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall that a monadic API got snuck in there somewhere, because of Pugs. < 1308891030 460287 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Pugs being a Perl 6 interpreter written in Haskell.) < 1308891225 880405 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there is something slightly wrong with me when I am okay with @ and % changing to $ when subscripted. < 1308891260 959677 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe that remove that in Perl 6 though. < 1308891315 143048 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever is awesome < 1308891322 538151 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be used to create closures < 1308891328 368888 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it do? < 1308891347 612168 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :or passed as an argument to Whatever-aware functions that will have special behavior < 1308891358 801824 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+2 creates a unary closure that adds two < 1308891372 858787 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1308891377 88805 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is indeed quite awesome. < 1308891390 168415 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does other things < 1308891399 101245 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, oh course, this is Perl after all. :P < 1308891403 220991 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort *, [] is default sort < 1308891413 576550 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1308891420 415269 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't just write sort []? < 1308891436 859741 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because sort takes two arguments < 1308891449 550893 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..oh right. < 1308891459 447962 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no @_ anymore. < 1308891558 694222 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you also use whatever for unbounded ranges, etc. < 1308891572 20829 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it means "I don't care" < 1308891670 765100 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone needs to write a flogscript manual < 1308891708 381793 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, another one < 1308891721 762216 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also used for a black hole in tuple assignment < 1308891859 275159 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if($c=='F)') { //flow-control-fumble < 1308891860 696130 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :best operator < 1308891862 588222 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that's what undef is for in Perl 5. Except it's lists and not tuples. < 1308891867 402780 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :throw, catch, fumble :) < 1308891907 879645 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is there no eq in Perl 6? or is using == incorrectly intentional there? < 1308892036 645895 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, extchars < 1308892130 954573 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it's lists in Perl 6 < 1308893080 507523 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are IRC nicks case insensitive? < 1308893107 997130 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind. I answered my own question with /whois :P < 1308893212 19875 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : my ($self, $body) = (shift, shift->{body}); < 1308893219 919340 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this line kind of reads like a poem about dancing. < 1308893272 631997 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very bad one. < 1308893545 831841 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308893711 304694 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1308895021 319037 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1308895046 388680 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1308895269 93705 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. Split-brain patient, one half is theist, one half atheist. What happens if, say, the theistic claims are true, and have the standard "through belief you shall be saved" bit going on? < 1308895293 569363 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can that happen? < 1308895301 271440 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Split-brain working like that? < 1308895307 722925 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is how split brain works. < 1308895348 656886 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By cutting the corpus callosum, you get two seperate minds. < 1308895402 557198 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This specific case has actually happened, BTW. < 1308895439 668094 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, how do you tell what the right side of the brain is? I thought only the left could speak? < 1308895466 497662 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, also, just a guess: Right theist, left atheist? < 1308895471 625063 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The right side still has motor control and is capable of understanding language to an extent. < 1308895665 496803 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the functions of the brain are not strictly localized to certain hemispheres. < 1308895677 618534 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though each hemisphere is specialized towards functions. < 1308895745 818059 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By cutting the corpus callosum, though, you end up getting pretty much two seperate brains in the same body. < 1308895781 485512 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. I believe only one is in use at a given time? < 1308895790 691229 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a really interesting thought experiment < 1308895798 498771 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to use that one sometime < 1308895803 486320 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No, both function simultaneously. < 1308895811 105264 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, if there's no connection, how would they know to take turns? < 1308895828 331652 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had never heard of each hemisphere developing different beliefs < 1308895833 671241 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: shush. < 1308895862 999719 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :message passing queues over quantum entanglement, duh. < 1308895879 892874 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't pass messages with quantum entanglement. < 1308895884 398594 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... -_- < 1308895889 412093 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, as far as I know < 1308895889 692379 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's actually only seperating the cerebral cortex into two. < 1308895896 575627 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, ah. < 1308895919 844984 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you get rather a *lot* of seperation between them, but not actually complete seperation. < 1308899079 912888 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do wish Perl's dereference operators used () instead of {} < 1308899094 313548 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@{$cats{$_}} is just kind of gross looking. < 1308899095 439534 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1308901735 679812 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/MmQAb.png What. The. Fuck. < 1308901744 748644 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is not right not right not right. < 1308901800 701970 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1308901855 233384 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :lithium (assuming that's from back when 7-up had lithium) is probably good for kids < 1308901920 804853 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's totally 50s graphic design, so *just* after they got rid of the lithium. < 1308901930 298784 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they removed the lithium citrate in 1950.) < 1308902101 349336 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's a chance that was 40s. < 1308902108 804425 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it would have lithium. < 1308902127 534247 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, found the publication date of the pamphlet it's from. < 1308902129 404551 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1953. < 1308902222 328281 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the point is just that it gets kids to drink it < 1308902330 276621 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to make a rules table for his own reversible GoL < 1308902335 710652 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I think Paul's is crap < 1308902376 827106 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much easier way to do that. < 1308902384 882181 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It drinks the milk or else it gets the hose again!" < 1308902387 765665 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1308902394 495109 :choochter!~choochter@host81-146-28-169.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308902399 663835 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, alternatively, I set up ReversibleLife wrong < 1308902411 885284 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, got it working now < 1308902487 925631 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :E seems to have done it the same way I have too < 1308902515 511605 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assigning same numbers and all < 1308902591 495766 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dangit it looks boring and unlikely to kickstart life < 1308902823 833838 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1308903104 80308 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way in Golly to make the world a torus? < 1308903126 513537 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In theory, that would let me actually observe the world shrinking back down < 1308903153 353319 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It _has_ to be possible for the mass of a reversible CA to shrink, I think < 1308903166 733867 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, hmm, not has to be... well, actually, not sure < 1308903175 434219 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But reversibility should be no hinderance < 1308903265 987556 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1308903276 79200 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :try using MCell < 1308903279 980086 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GoL glider sort of becomes a dangit I forgot what it's called < 1308903382 707314 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I could just find the Golly documentation < 1308903390 636318 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just added :T20,20 to the rule name < 1308903424 775248 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I believe so < 1308903459 312308 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, time is not behaving cyclically like I expected < 1308903469 494513 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does being on a torus just break reversibility period? < 1308903494 744897 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, why would it? < 1308903531 937407 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also one can trivially show that any reversible automaton in finite space is cyclic < 1308903567 134778 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea, but time should be cyclic, returning to the starting configuration. Otherwise, you'd get two states, one traced back to the initial state, and one not < 1308903576 178473 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :more to the point < 1308903580 326223 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a finite state space < 1308903585 462857 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :a generation is a bijective operation < 1308903610 703172 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, should it or should it not eventually return to the starting state? < 1308903614 852477 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's on a torus < 1308903618 867393 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should < 1308903625 50879 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is reversible, that is < 1308903627 990008 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a torus just means you're making the bijection differently < 1308903630 182760 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1308903647 360914 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: A torus means finite space, that's the key < 1308903657 706537 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The generation function in an infinite space is not necessarily bijective < 1308903658 888354 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'm just not being patient enough < 1308903673 245621 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: there are 2^cells possibilities < 1308903678 324130 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may take a while < 1308903698 276397 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes it a 10x10 torus < 1308903709 83161 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :still 2^100 possibilities < 1308903722 138119 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be a pretty effective CA to enumerate through every possible state < 1308903765 296594 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1308903784 968840 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you need more math < 1308903798 501862 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm seeing it < 1308903802 648215 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But just keep missing it < 1308903860 521040 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes a 5x5, and a line across the universe, and it's much more visible now < 1308903885 43398 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why won't you accept a proof < 1308903891 764964 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you came up wiht < 1308903892 758437 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*with < 1308903918 327988 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wanted to see a demonstration in action, is all < 1308904126 89052 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :k here's an example < 1308904151 387986 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :my CA has state space {1, 0}. Generation function is 1 => 0, 0 => 1 < 1308904155 406328 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :run for two generations < 1308904181 525692 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-234-18.vodafone-net.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1308904832 186716 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://necsi.edu/postdocs/sayama/sdsr/movies/evol-emr.html < 1308905022 571488 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries random fill with evoloop < 1308905043 776768 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably won't be effective unless I make a very large random fill though, and that would take a whiel < 1308905135 67502 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229128016.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1308905354 795807 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, this is too slow for my tastes < 1308905704 664504 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let genericFib a b = a : b : zipWith (+) (genericFib a b) (tail $ genericFib a b) in genericFib 2 2 < 1308905708 681066 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1308905725 989427 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let genericFib a b = a : b : zipWith (+) (genericFib a b) (tail $ genericFib a b) in genericFib 2 2 < 1308905730 4845 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1308905733 8286 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...? < 1308905752 863274 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let genericFib a b = let fibs = a : b : zipWith (+) fibs (tail fibs) in fibs in take 10 $ genericFib 2 2 < 1308905753 576084 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2,2,4,6,10,16,26,42,68,110] < 1308905769 468900 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let genericFib a b = let fibs = a : b : zipWith (+) fibs (tail fibs) in fibs in genericFib 2 2 < 1308905770 362168 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2,2,4,6,10,16,26,42,68,110,178,288,466,754,1220,1974,3194,5168,8362,13530,... < 1308905774 523122 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229128016.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1308905797 959959 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure I understand what happened. < 1308905821 819499 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let genericFib a b = a : b : zipWith (+) (genericFib a b) (tail $ genericFib a b) in genericFib 2 2 < 1308905825 546877 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1308905826 617455 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let genericFib a b = a : b : zipWith (+) (genericFib a b) (tail $ genericFib a b) in take 10 $ genericFib 2 2 < 1308905827 333094 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2,2,4,6,10,16,26,42,68,110] < 1308905855 540352 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just too slow without the sharing < 1308905864 797967 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's it. < 1308905884 736573 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like there could be a way to optimize situations like that to be equivalent. < 1308905891 991959 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing it in GHCi, your version is really slow < 1308905899 947929 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1308905914 145899 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :take 30 takes 1.51 seconds < 1308905924 794971 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Versus 0.01 < 1308905938 339440 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :would they be equivalent when compiled? < 1308905943 881117 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1308905952 543179 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC doesn't do that kind of transformation < 1308905954 707611 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can introduce space leaks < 1308906048 577816 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Performance/GHC#Common_subexpressions < 1308906584 922513 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229128016.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1308907931 309767 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION discovers Golly's Pattern Info feature < 1308909374 616854 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!msg < 1308909470 815558 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo "Your bot needs better documentation, Gregor" > /dev/null < 1308909484 172479 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1308909502 47411 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is proper complaint procedure according to !info < 1308909770 637378 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229128016.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1308912143 617814 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1308912275 594122 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1308912484 811647 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1308912927 580834 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : corewars is a fairly interesting thing. < 1308913558 774701 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1308913976 44263 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :What property of an algorithm causes it to diverge on infinite data? < 1308913991 92713 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure that's undecidable. < 1308914024 205025 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that would involving the halting problem. < 1308914030 255175 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*involve < 1308914075 522151 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me of http://www.xamuel.com/guessability/ < 1308914086 696267 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :though that's not what you want < 1308914213 349020 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seen on the SimplyNoise testimonial box: "My girlfriend and I use SimplyNoise every night." < 1308914792 399694 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^ < 1308914896 770449 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, I don't even want to think about why you did that, given your established predilections. < 1308915119 402588 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl1 (flip seq) [1..100] < 1308915121 481154 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1308915171 433614 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl1 (flip seq) [1..] < 1308915178 876154 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval: ExitFailure 1 < 1308915179 54266 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1308915187 804869 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :efficient computing of the number 1. < 1308915198 673461 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a thesis I'm working on. < 1308915224 757993 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src seq < 1308915225 216236 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. My pet ferret can type better than you! < 1308915228 76446 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1308915229 912537 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's seq < 1308915234 495586 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what? Oh wrong tab -_- < 1308915243 296068 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not intended for this channel at all < 1308915462 532520 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: the first argument is forced to be strict, and then the second argument is returned. < 1308915476 501164 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the strictness primitive of Haskell (GHC? I don't know if it's portable) < 1308915480 327409 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaah < 1308915503 982471 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's commonly used in infix form. < 1308915508 780069 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you apply flip seq to 1 and 2, you make 2 strict and return 1 < 1308915512 451844 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you apply it to 1 and 3 etc < 1308915514 378834 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1308915522 769759 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's a complete waste of time. :P < 1308915529 135591 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1308915617 758945 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also "bang patterns", which lets you prepend a ! in front of a pattern to signify that it is strict. This can be more readable than using seq to force strictness. < 1308915622 930451 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a GHC extension. < 1308915903 510216 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when used correctly, it can dramatically speed up code. When used incorrectly, it can do absolutely nothing and make your code less pretty. In the worst case, it can hurt performance due to boxing/unboxing. < 1308915938 644259 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :will GHC make something strict if it thinks it will help? < 1308915945 597437 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously not in every case but sometimes < 1308915961 822712 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1308915980 36224 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not if it thinks it will help, if it can and there's no reason not to. < 1308916049 540614 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if an expression is always evaluated by a function, then there's no reason to create the extra overhead of lazy evaluation. < 1308916122 30986 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I think you need the -O flag for strictness analysis. < 1308916502 759047 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1308917438 786322 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1308918797 905351 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1308921410 872025 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1308921436 230047 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa, you can roast eggs. < 1308921840 283379 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh, how? < 1308921857 619492 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :just in an oven? < 1308922077 528027 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229128016.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1308922773 794186 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1308925261 821615 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1308925969 824508 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1308927391 960666 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1308927421 353731 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1308927622 53065 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 . < 1308929571 261127 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-253-62.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308929597 867981 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1308930263 962766 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229128016.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1308930657 470610 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-60.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1308930687 956630 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-60.elisa.ee PART :#esoteric < 1308931270 631036 :yiyus!2383vince@je.je.je QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1308933448 931655 :yiyus!1242712427@server1.bouncer4you.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1308934439 203971 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, in C, how does __LINE__ behave in an #if? And what if you had #if __LINE__ == 10 .... #elif __LINE__ == 10 .... < 1308934492 550366 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm works correctly < 1308935875 181385 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-253-62.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1308935883 25163 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-175-32.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308937804 87963 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308937892 372835 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the rule against auras being creatures was not there, you could make a card like: Enchant permanent. This card is unblockable if attacking the player controlling enchanted permanent while that permanent is tapped. < 1308938236 374804 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :You usually try to not make super-confusing cards. < 1308938390 798851 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make up the card: All creatures are also planeswalkers until end of turn. < 1308938412 757535 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I called it "Wrath of Gosh") < 1308938652 376670 :choochter!~choochter@host81-146-28-169.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net QUIT :Quit: lang may yer lum reek.. < 1308942738 424472 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1308943014 918445 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-175-32.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl-Q must die. < 1308943023 674757 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1308943170 133796 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1308943254 114826 :CakeProphet!~adam@h219.63.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308943254 562127 :CakeProphet!~adam@h219.63.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1308943254 710595 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1308944183 944494 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Elaborate? Context? etc? < 1308944689 467674 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-175-32.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Q is right next to W. Q quits Firefox. W closes the current tab. < 1308944856 480307 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-175-32.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because somehow, a hotkey *distinct* from Alt-F4 to close the program is helpful. < 1308944911 842846 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, wild guess: legacy reasons. On classical Mac OS (which Netscape Navigator existed for) Cmd-q was the normal way to exit applications. < 1308944955 299687 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-175-32.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then WHY STICK THE CLOSE TAB SHORTCUT ADJACENT TO IT < 1308945213 468955 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 JOIN :#esoteric < 1308945217 577104 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :q < 1308945356 497800 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: i am sorry, but pikhq has just banned q < 1308945514 573714 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq will die < 1308945531 374777 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:48:31: pikhq, wild guess: legacy reasons. On classical Mac OS (which Netscape Navigator existed for) Cmd-q was the normal way to exit applications. < 1308945534 947482 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also OS X < 1308945652 989239 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, right < 1308945666 214389 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hey, I need a very angry soundbite about using non-alphabetical symbols for variables in mathematics < 1308945668 704255 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: please provivde < 1308945681 569822 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Then WHY STICK THE CLOSE TAB SHORTCUT ADJACENT TO IT <-- also legacy reasons, Cmd-w was also close window (and probably is on OS X) < 1308945714 556117 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you mean like 5 = 4.12? < 1308945715 450952 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Possibly because of different window managers or something < 1308945715 637029 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1308945737 136523 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes I know of that esolang) < 1308945753 23687 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :how fortuitous < 1308945795 107847 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: what non-alphabetical symbols < 1308945811 713713 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Do you not have microphone or angry computer speech? < 1308945817 971626 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's irrelevant < 1308945856 869595 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: um i mean i don't think that is very common < 1308945871 980332 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still I would like to know what non-alphabetical symbols you mean and which ones specifically < 1308945874 659365 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: of course it isn't < 1308945883 952037 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if it is not relevant for such a sound. < 1308945955 856120 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(TeX allows you to use any symbol for variables in mathematics by using \mathord prefix) < 1308946224 221152 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:02:18: since the OO stuff was just kind of thrown in Perl 5 simply for the sake of having it, and doesn't really integrate into the language very well. < 1308946224 381219 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever used Moose? < 1308946225 92828 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: < 1308946313 518483 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, my sister tried but got bitten by it < 1308946367 499979 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: joke might work better if i actually had a sister) < 1308946376 680894 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:19:42: strings just represent an unparsed form of a structure. for example, a parser can't just magically form a parse tree from a file, it needs to read it as a string first. < 1308946376 856485 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is only necessary because filesystems store everything as strings < 1308946418 683380 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PART :#esoteric < 1308946480 259917 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :synchronistically, http://rjlipton.wordpress.com/2010/04/19/a-post-on-post/#comment-12208 < 1308946520 849215 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-175-32.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Gotta love that good ol' UNIX style. < 1308946525 317622 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:49:50: honestly, I kind of prefer that Perl devs focused on improving Perl 5 without adding radically new semantics/syntax everywhere. < 1308946525 495381 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you realise perl six came about because that became way too difficult? < 1308946556 596262 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quantum Systems Engineering < 1308946556 747170 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Service of Regenerative Medicine < 1308946559 640078 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this john sidles person looks fun < 1308946585 100061 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:50:30: (Pugs being a Perl 6 interpreter written in Haskell.) < 1308946589 729099 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: pugs is incredibly out of date and no longer maintained < 1308946634 405031 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-175-32.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Yes, I realise. < 1308946636 160798 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1308946643 406197 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: yes he does :P < 1308946719 15972 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ? < 1308946723 129150 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1308946724 207989 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :john sidles < 1308946727 509507 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1308946775 754867 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :always with a different perspective on the discussions < 1308946970 681520 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:40:22: it's a GHC extension. < 1308946976 274595 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um isn't it in haskell twenty ten < 1308946996 865489 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION maintains heavy scepticism over CakeProphet's explanations of the intimate workings of the GHC optimiser < 1308947191 372501 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: i don't find it (but pattern guards are) < 1308947217 558427 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/haskell-prime/wiki/BangPatterns < 1308947258 75554 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :To recover Haskell 98 semantics for a pattern binding, use a tilde: < 1308947258 264154 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric : let ~(x,y) = e in b < 1308947270 141500 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, BangPatterns violates ninetyeight? < 1308947274 200194 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1308947303 725437 :CakeProphet!~adam@h178.22.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308947303 876409 :CakeProphet!~adam@h178.22.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1308947303 876557 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1308947343 740139 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:46:01: I like it when people use "borealis" in random names. < 1308947345 730401 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sexy borealis < 1308947412 994230 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well ! would be a new keyboard, presumably (although it's already used in data declarations) < 1308947420 920776 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1308947425 62559 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*keyword < 1308947433 359105 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me it _would_ be a new keyboard :D < 1308947435 366413 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote as always in sweden everything goes to a fixed pattern: thursday is queueing at systembolaget to get beer and schnaps, friday is pickled herring, schnaps and dancing the frog dance around the phallos, saturday is dedicated to being hung over < 1308947436 645222 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD FINGERS < 1308947439 147958 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :467) as always in sweden everything goes to a fixed pattern: thursday is queueing at systembolaget to get beer and schnaps, friday is pickled herring, schnaps and dancing the frog dance around the phallos, saturday is dedicated to being hung over < 1308947442 936219 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott_: well ! would be a new keyboard, presumably (although it's already used in data declarations) < 1308947444 189628 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, as in < 1308947446 155515 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric : To recover Haskell 98 semantics for a pattern binding, use a tilde: < 1308947446 691341 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric : let ~(x,y) = e in b < 1308947472 46273 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:22:49: Did comex just call Java a fine language? < 1308947472 217634 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:23:02: By pointing to a comment that called it a fine language, I mean < 1308947472 368537 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Do I have to stop idolising him?!?!?!" < 1308947487 142937 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: oh that would be with the strict default suggestion i guess, that's not part of ! patterns alone is it < 1308947541 21968 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308947579 527631 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: anyway haskell 2010 only got the parts of prime they managed to agree upon, obviously < 1308947593 119359 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right < 1308947598 819024 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: they should just standardise GHC :P < 1308947613 82399 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a moving target... < 1308947652 822357 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's the _only_ target :P < 1308947663 26759 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there even any other compilers that work any more, apart from jhc? < 1308947669 983644 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or interpreters, even, every other project is dead < 1308947683 905951 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh there might be that UHC thing < 1308947685 877927 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and LHC < 1308947687 846544 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's it < 1308947692 123867 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ! cannot be a keyword because it's already an array operator < 1308947725 987146 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: by moving, i mean they cannot standardize on ghc's features until _ghc_ has had them settle down < 1308947730 192321 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: people who reply to your tweets are really retarded, my condolences < 1308947738 763644 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: here's the spec: Implementations must act identically to GHC. < 1308947752 373455 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok joking, got it < 1308947798 796373 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you didn't realise? :D < 1308947822 378436 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: until your spec i was assuming there was _some_ kernel of seriousness in there < 1308947845 660473 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I am serious that there are basically no other viable implementations any more, unfortunately < 1308947909 294980 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That won't work very well but maybe do something similar to what I was proposing with C, but do it differently in a way which is suitable for Haskell, instead. < 1308947960 899576 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: there is just too much in ghc for anyone else to reimplement most of it, by now... < 1308947990 23405 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm not sure _that_ is true < 1308948000 700041 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's still simpler than C++ < 1308948018 670644 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and C++ ninety-eight takes about ten years to write a compiler for; C++0x I have no clue < 1308948046 797680 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i am guessing C++ wouldn't have had more than one implementation either if the community size was the same as haskell's < 1308948063 929588 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what I was proposing with C, is I mentioned list of things, which is a superset of C89 but a subset of GNU89. So maybe something similar idea with Haskell. < 1308948376 301742 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Meta_Turing-complete < 1308948377 552563 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK OFF TEHZ < 1308948378 446651 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :JESUS CHRIST < 1308948383 442126 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE WIKI IS NOT YOUR PERSONAL CRAP GROUND < 1308948401 542649 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also a subset of the features that Clang supports in GNU89 mode) < 1308948505 952696 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION creates [[Talk:Meta Turing-complete]] < 1308948633 923141 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainmaker < 1308948638 556103 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how much do you love bf extensions < 1308948638 724005 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh... < 1308948640 406310 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. < 1308948646 890575 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that term identical in meaning to "Turing complete" < 1308948676 741823 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, yes, tehz has the definition wrong < 1308948696 740743 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Then explain that on the Talk page. < 1308948711 293036 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i just did < 1308948714 848310 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just realised < 1308948746 615847 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1308948865 647861 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308948937 156807 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi monqy, tehz made another article < 1308948998 414139 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh great < 1308949033 84505 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainmaker, eh? < 1308949040 577793 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sidles away carefully < 1308949041 158067 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me guess it's a brainfuck ripoff < 1308949119 297273 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...tehz...:9 < 1308949120 724884 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1308949294 566016 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1308949304 972372 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: nope < 1308949306 742823 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1308949309 417817 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the one newer than that < 1308949314 53196 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meta Turing-complete < 1308949317 274234 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh jeez another < 1308949320 661439 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meta Turing-complete < 1308949323 693541 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which he deliberately un-hyphenised from the alpaca article when he created it for some reason < 1308949328 865386 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the talk page :P < 1308949407 826363 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never meta turing. he died before i was born. < 1308949473 458563 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308949483 652465 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the article is confusing < 1308949525 809339 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some super-Turing-complete languages are able to do anything (see Compute/IO), so they are super fully meta Turing-complete. < 1308949528 691042 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote i never meta turing. he died before i was born. < 1308949529 807241 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :468) i never meta turing. he died before i was born. < 1308949597 485537 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infix notation is one of the 4 possible ways to describe a program. It is not as powerful as the others, so people usually add parenthesis, which makes it a combined notation (Infix-Surround). < 1308949641 347728 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fun super meta turing-complete < 1308949660 788040 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :super duper meta cool turing-complete < 1308949920 170981 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1308950026 300423 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, if you added a term "value ::? Type" (where Type is constant in the source ofc) to Haskell, of type Bool, would that cause any inconsistency or impurity? < 1308950027 725225 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. < 1308950033 608684 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isInt :: a -> Bool < 1308950038 958055 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isInt x = x ::? Int < 1308950059 108504 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x ::? (Num a) => a would only be true if x was of type "forall a. (Num a) => a", I think) < 1308950078 584367 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. I'm not sure isNum :: a -> Bool; isNum x = x ::? (Num a) => a would do what you expected... < 1308950161 848551 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it would break parametricity < 1308950196 734933 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Currently, no one has even bothered looking into how to make an interpreter, so this are none. If you are less lazy than the other people reading this article, please make an interpreter, because I am too lazy." < 1308950200 727433 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, duh < 1308950201 309915 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any typeclass extensions that would allow doing something like that < 1308950206 680439 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, but anything else? < 1308950210 671215 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: no afaik < 1308950223 154400 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the ghc devs would notice breaking parametricity :P < 1308950295 877355 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it would require an implementation that didn't delete types, naturally < 1308950328 157605 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well duh, I mean as far as the language itself < 1308950377 302357 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: i doubt it would be _impossible_... < 1308950426 744913 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iiuc there is a fusion rule which depends on parametricity < 1308950507 493993 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott_: i doubt it would be _impossible_... < 1308950508 42909 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1308950516 337539 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: dude, I am just asking if it would break the _language_ < 1308950521 703482 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't care about implementation < 1308950538 853309 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: there's probably some extension which would break :P < 1308950573 835410 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean newtype deriving is already broken because of other parts that aren't parametric < 1308950604 904056 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what other parts? < 1308950645 571260 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :gadts and type families < 1308950666 767518 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make unsafeCoerce by mixing them < 1308950680 666792 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: really?? < 1308950685 348540 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have an example? < 1308950687 311028 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds cool < 1308950691 241653 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it just like < 1308950694 967867 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme look it up < 1308950700 879730 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Foo a where lol :: b -> Foo a < 1308951088 760612 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it's http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/1496 but i'm not sure there's an explicit unsafeCoerce construction < 1308951137 749997 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess the example converts between Int and Double < 1308951194 644749 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet http://hackage.haskell.org/package/eq would let you do horrible things with that < 1308951196 220561 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :last i heard they were going to introduce new kinds to fix this < 1308951226 210516 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, wait < 1308951235 116824 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can actually do unsafeCoerce with just eq < 1308951418 791787 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/DYOQ -- but it's actually not unsafe... < 1308951418 966060 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's == undefiend < 1308951419 117087 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :undefined < 1308951419 117325 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so oh well < 1308951420 393887 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: dammit, the GHC devs thought of this < 1308951421 459636 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :data a := b where < 1308951422 350693 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Refl :: a := a < 1308951422 527187 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coerce :: a := b -> a -> b < 1308951423 419756 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coerce Refl a = a < 1308951423 637931 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :typechecks < 1308951424 489955 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coerce :: a := b -> a -> b < 1308951424 640916 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coerce ~Refl a = a < 1308951425 591219 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't < 1308951449 854807 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1308951468 86616 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: because "coerce undefined a" == _|_ in the first version < 1308951468 962630 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can a lazy pattern match change typing < 1308951476 727647 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: because GADTs do < 1308951485 990812 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember, bringing a GADT constructor into scope can change types < 1308951489 567875 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1308951490 647757 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the whole point of pattern-matching on a GADT < 1308951496 899194 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you make it irrefutable, you can pass in _|_ < 1308951500 620229 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and introduce a type-system inconsistency < 1308951511 325244 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :very clever for GHC catching that < 1308951512 343362 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1308951515 608374 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]of GHC for < 1308951852 258450 :CakeProphet!~adam@h138.56.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308951852 670172 :CakeProphet!~adam@h138.56.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1308951852 821161 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1308952034 768440 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1308952070 740261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1308952254 569063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "You cannot use atomically inside an unsafePerformIO or unsafeInterleaveIO. Any attempt to do so will result in a runtime error. (Reason: allowing this would effectively allow a transaction inside a transaction, depending on exactly when the thunk is evaluated.)" < 1308952254 748874 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1308952260 809213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hard to articulate how much that scares me < 1308952272 392468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that it's common enough that they had to check for it, and that unsafePerformIO /can/ be detected) < 1308952425 916305 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-175-32.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Judging from Google, before they tested for it doing that would segfault. < 1308952448 550380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how do they test for it :D < 1308952462 790718 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-175-32.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, they're not testing for unsafePerformIO or unsafeInterleaveIO, they're testing to see if there's a transaction within a transaction. < 1308952470 279823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1308952514 268499 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1308952518 121456 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-175-32.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the message is there because they got annoyed by people asking on the mailing list about it. < 1308952519 602635 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um that would not seem to be implied by "Any attempt to do so will result in a runtime error." < 1308952622 764540 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess they could make unsafePerformIO and unsafeInterleaveIO set up a fake transaction automatically if it _wasn't_ inside one < 1308952638 335152 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1308952640 329015 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that sounds inefficient :P < 1308952647 601000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, GLUT is unmaintained? < 1308952663 172741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway btw i think pikhq is wrong < 1308952670 684773 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what, it's in the platform? < 1308952673 913792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :newTVarIO :: a -> IO (TVar a) < 1308952674 64766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO version of newTVar. This is useful for creating top-level TVars using System.IO.Unsafe.unsafePerformIO, because using atomically inside System.IO.Unsafe.unsafePerformIO isn't possible. < 1308952676 754706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, in general < 1308952682 281900 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not the haskell lib < 1308952686 389761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GLUT itself < 1308952697 445141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's not open source... < 1308952704 38694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1308952708 681427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are maintained forks :) < 1308952710 819255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not forks < 1308952713 706928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :reimplementations i guess < 1308952772 263904 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h215.20.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308952895 533849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey pikhq how do you link to glut :q < 1308952926 922690 :CakeProp2et!~adam@h149.23.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308952981 569731 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1308953115 275477 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h215.20.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1308953278 400902 :CakeProp2et!~adam@h149.23.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1308953390 423311 :CakeProphet!~adam@h98.34.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308953395 596736 :CakeProphet!~adam@h98.34.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1308953395 747489 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1308953454 294533 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1308953459 469876 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1308953478 235380 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, that's awesome < 1308953485 160046 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how golly-ticker.rle was made < 1308953719 374559 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1308953841 369621 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1308954186 305058 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1308954292 648627 :CakeProphet!~adam@h161.1.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308954296 939780 :CakeProphet!~adam@h161.1.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1308954297 90684 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1308954327 327264 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@209.150.235.10 JOIN :#esoteric < 1308954636 370267 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo wonders how golly-ticker.rle was made < 1308954637 556381 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1308954659 265392 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glider → glider, LWSS converter, some reflectors. < 1308954669 565165 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not terribly complex. < 1308954717 617648 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much would I have to learn before I could make my own tickers? < 1308954728 94129 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fact that I have to ask is probably a bad sign < 1308954731 588621 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...next to none? < 1308954740 598052 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just change the pattern of gliders in the loops. < 1308955044 441160 :CakeProphet!~adam@h229.25.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308955044 631484 :CakeProphet!~adam@h229.25.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1308955044 631614 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1308955257 1324 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1308955503 884737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Rand.Next%28%29 < 1308955507 666469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither turing-complete nor a language; discuss < 1308955557 517615 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1308955598 664870 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rand.Next() is esoteric and created by user Checkmate. < 1308955622 873213 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm missing the point < 1308955624 181494 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it art? < 1308955719 288090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's shit < 1308955731 847434 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :an excrement language < 1308955826 578863 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :today is a good day for bad things < 1308955858 96515 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically, today is the day when the concept of turing-completeness dies a horrible, messy death? < 1308955910 895429 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it _is_ the end times. after the rapture and all. < 1308955968 605342 :CakeProphet!~adam@h229.54.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308955968 795582 :CakeProphet!~adam@h229.54.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1308955968 795733 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1308955970 898474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can you delete that and the meta turing completeness page < 1308955971 607263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1308955996 414467 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :leave infix notation page for hilarity < 1308956063 35536 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: IN UNIVERSO ALTERNATIVO, OERJAN PAGINAS DELET < 1308956077 9780 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Hutton32 might be easier for my brain to understand? < 1308956077 899937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote oerjan: can you delete that and the meta turing completeness page thanks elliott: IN UNIVERSO ALTERNATIVO, OERJAN PAGINAS DELET < 1308956079 151445 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :469) oerjan: can you delete that and the meta turing completeness page thanks elliott: IN UNIVERSO ALTERNATIVO, OERJAN PAGINAS DELET < 1308956095 23384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote asdf < 1308956096 263499 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1308956184 116089 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229128016.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1308956192 16894 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was worried he'd got the conjugation wrong there < 1308956208 799859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :horrific < 1308956317 443424 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, was I ever as bad as Checkmate or the Meta-turing-complete person? < 1308956346 289312 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :DON'T ANSWER THAT < 1308956389 504981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was avoiding it < 1308956394 629000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1308956400 436405 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, good < 1308956416 857416 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1308956638 545495 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1308956663 623441 :CakeProphet!~adam@h46.11.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308956663 995399 :CakeProphet!~adam@h46.11.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1308956664 146270 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1308956714 66353 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i hope you _do_ realize no one could make a non-snarky response to that kind of question... < 1308956741 469112 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even turing? < 1308956814 869419 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT EVEN TURING < 1308956836 606035 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy 99th < 1308957538 630053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish GHC had idiom brackets < 1308957548 694981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, you could actually do [i| ... |] with Template Haskell < 1308957556 786850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :applicative-quoters library: Quasiquoters for idiom brackets and an applicative do-notation < 1308957558 564361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Success? < 1308957569 733680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehe, it uses i too < 1308957571 868527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/applicative-quoters/0.1.0.1/doc/html/src/Control-Applicative-QQ-Idiom.html#i < 1308957837 638053 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1308957968 330765 :CakeProphet!~adam@h184.36.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308957968 810535 :CakeProphet!~adam@h184.36.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1308957968 961413 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1308958482 136846 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print grep // (1,2,3) < 1308958483 158132 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough arguments for grep at /tmp/input.22143 line 1, near "// (" < 1308958486 64707 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print grep //, (1,2,3) < 1308958486 644071 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :123 < 1308958494 906373 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print grep /\Q\E/, (1,2,3) < 1308958495 364922 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :123 < 1308958575 124409 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr shows "" [1,2,3] < 1308958576 277588 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : "123" < 1308958717 888558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have this doubt that oerjan knows about TH < 1308958754 801949 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know _about_ TH, i just don't _know_ TH < 1308958759 789262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1308958800 324808 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Maybe Hutton32 might be easier for my brain to understand? < 1308958804 404934 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate((shows.length<*>(:).head).group)"1" < 1308958805 97890 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to...? < 1308958805 306739 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Base.String' < 1308958805 487100 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred typ... < 1308958808 986 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ff < 1308958815 464801 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print (my ($a, $b) = (1,$a)) < 1308958815 932837 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1308958823 462551 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, didn't think that would work. < 1308958829 19859 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand how the 32-cell VN CAs work. < 1308958832 888066 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're deep magic. < 1308958841 893409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, maybe you need haskell-src-meta < 1308958903 903304 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate(($"").(shows.length<*>(:).head).group)"1" < 1308958905 45541 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Types.Char] -> b' < 1308958905 194218 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferr... < 1308958907 948292 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ff < 1308958925 6316 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: unification or just lucky evaluation order? < 1308958940 851089 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (shows.length<*>(:).head).group)"1" < 1308958941 921793 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `)' < 1308958946 187701 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lucky scoping too or something? < 1308958946 376987 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hoping for lucky evaluation order. :) < 1308958950 741223 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((shows.length<*>(:).head).group)"1" < 1308958951 905220 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Base.String' < 1308958952 54021 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred typ... < 1308958991 888825 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1308959067 756259 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this is the most obscene thing I've written in Perl so far: http://pastebin.com/XPcjXL4p < 1308959083 736492 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((shows.length<*>(:).head)<= let (a,b) = (1,a) in (a,b) < 1308959292 215228 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (1,1) < 1308959344 349790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: reminds me of tying the knot < 1308959351 861077 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1308959367 531009 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :let (a, b) = (1, a : b) in (a, b) < 1308959369 487837 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1308959371 818953 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let (a, b) = (1, a : b) in (a, b) < 1308959372 521855 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (1,[1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1... < 1308959387 303497 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1308959425 196803 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine there's some hideous way to do that in perl too < 1308959433 529636 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no not really. < 1308959442 691456 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes. it's just too hideous to be obvious. < 1308959513 64312 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would have to force laziness, with a number of possible methods. < 1308959586 303574 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey I just realized something I could do to make adding commands to my bot a cleaner process. < 1308959597 763828 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, as opposed to that golly ticker thig < 1308959599 11687 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing < 1308959607 766204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how everyone in #haskell thinks augur was just really creepy to a random person for no reason < 1308959622 76497 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, the Golly ticker isn't very complex at all, like I keep telling you. < 1308959640 152771 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I wasn't in there, what happened? < 1308959646 425531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: rocks fell and everyone died < 1308959649 513747 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: creepy? whos acting like im creepy < 1308959652 506354 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :noone thats who! < 1308959697 145365 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :one nice thing about Perl that it has in common with Haskell is that it's fairly trivial to define your own control structures. < 1308959909 548686 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sub with($&) {open my $f, shift; shift->($f); close $f} < 1308959932 847665 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with '>file.txt' {...} < 1308959940 899022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that involves using prototypes though. < 1308959946 166573 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yes it does. < 1308959957 550355 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm delicious perl < 1308959978 407841 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually for alphanumeric strings you can use =>, so then... < 1308959986 987660 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :add_cmd help => {...} < 1308959996 108340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that produces a warning.