00:00:00 <elliott> you do use strict and warnings, right?
00:00:37 <elliott> help is an undefined bareword
00:01:16 <CakeProphet> first I need to learn emacs regexp so I can save time later...
00:01:34 <oerjan> hm isn't => precisely for _allowing_ barewords before it
00:02:21 <CakeProphet> => is essentially a comma that allows a bareword in front of it as a string.
00:03:46 <CakeProphet> if I had joined this channel for the first time today, I would almost get the impression that you guys don't like esoteric languages.
00:04:15 <elliott> I don't like esolangs that just have weird syntax as their gimmick
00:04:26 <elliott> and I don't program in esolangs when I'm not esoprogramming
00:04:41 <monqy> does perl also have weird semantics I forget
00:05:06 <pikhq> monqy: It has every semantic.
00:05:42 * elliott smashes CakeProphet's head in
00:07:38 <monqy> !perl print print + 1
00:07:45 <monqy> what just happened
00:07:57 <CakeProphet> it printed positive one, and then returned 1, which it then printed.
00:08:19 <elliott> augur: link to what edwardk is talking about
00:08:24 <oerjan> !perl print 1 => "1"; 1
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00:08:51 <augur> elliott: hes not talking about anything
00:08:52 <CakeProphet> elliott: yes the transform to a regular , occurs in the tokenizer, before any precedence is done.
00:09:08 <elliott> <ski> augur : i see you at least mention later that `*' is supposed to have type `One'
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00:09:09 <elliott> <augur> ski: im fixing that
00:09:09 <elliott> <ski> btw on page 14, there's a type which extends well into the margin
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00:09:15 <elliott> <augur> also, yeah, theres a lot of stuff that goes into margins :p
00:09:26 <augur> you meant i should link to what SKI is talking about
00:09:40 <augur> sorry i thought you were re-addressing that to ski
00:09:42 <augur> who is oddly not here
00:09:51 <augur> well, youll have to wait until i fix it, elliott!
00:10:05 <oerjan> ski is clearly lambdabot's secret identity
00:10:09 <augur> also, youll just trash it, so
00:10:16 <elliott> i promise to make no comments at all
00:11:00 <monqy> !perl print print print print print
00:11:27 <monqy> !perl print (print (print (print print)))
00:12:26 <augur> elliott: right now its bulky and im going to pare it down to something more focused
00:12:33 <Sgeo> @bible matt 5:22
00:13:00 <monqy> I agree with elliott
00:13:07 <CakeProphet> oh my god this add_cmd thing is such a beautiful hack.
00:14:01 <CakeProphet> hmmm, oh yeah, I guess I would need a sub...
00:15:08 <monqy> !perl ((print print) (print print))
00:15:09 <EgoBot> syntax error at /tmp/input.25532 line 1, near ") ("
00:15:49 <CakeProphet> yeah okay, so you can't call 1 as a subroutine.
00:16:03 <CakeProphet> this is a bug that is likely to be fixed soon.
00:19:16 <CakeProphet> elliott: ah yes, I believe without the sub it's interpreting the { as the start of a hashref.
00:19:50 <CakeProphet> ah well, I'll just use string literals instead of this => nonsense.
00:24:11 <elliott> <dylukes> I've decided programming or trying to understand #haskell while moderately lovesick is hopeless.
00:26:53 <CakeProphet> programming #haskell is indeed pretty difficult.
00:26:59 <CakeProphet> or I would imagine it is. I have never tried.
00:27:46 <zzo38> I have TRANSPARENCY + NIGHTMARE against opponent's STONE BARRAGE, which means there is a 1/16 chance that they can possibly hit me at all.
00:28:15 <zzo38> Possibly even slightly less.
00:28:37 <zzo38> Actually, no, not less.
00:31:58 <oerjan> CakeProphet: it's just a simple #irp dialect
00:32:10 <oerjan> with unusually polite interpreters
00:36:01 <zzo38> And then they try playing BONE ATTACK (1 + 50% to prevent attacks (unless switched)), which is completely useless since I have two Z.R.C. (and even when I don't, I use RECYCLE ENERGY)
00:37:10 <CakeProphet> while not as pretty ass I had hoped, does save me the effort of manually adding commands to a hash table.
00:37:27 <CakeProphet> ...lol, these typos are ridiculous sometimes.
00:37:36 <elliott> CakeProphet: you can actually avoid the sub, I think, with prototype majjik
00:37:45 <CakeProphet> yes but it has to be the FIRST argument for some reason
00:38:07 <elliott> I think you could achieve foo => {
00:38:15 <elliott> I think there's a Moose thing that uses that syntax
00:38:32 <CakeProphet> elliott: oh, and yes, I've seen Moose. Haven't used it or learned it though.
00:39:09 <CakeProphet> still the prototype document says that the sub or comma isn't required if the & argument is the first one, which is how map, sort, grep, and friends work.
00:39:49 <CakeProphet> foo => { requires the comma but not the sub, which I don't think is a possible case
00:41:00 <Sgeo> Golly wants Perl 5.10 but I only have 5.8 installed, and scared that upgrading will break XChat again
00:43:19 <CakeProphet> it uses the {} with hashrefs but I don't see any anonymous subs.
00:44:19 <CakeProphet> before, after, and around use name => sub {...}
00:46:29 <CakeProphet> I could do something like command {...} name => category => documentation
00:46:41 <CakeProphet> but that puts all of the information after a huge block of code.
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01:01:31 <lambdabot> Control.Monad join :: Monad m => m (m a) -> m a
01:01:45 <lambdabot> forall a b. ((a -> b) -> a) -> (a -> b) -> b
01:01:51 <lambdabot> forall a (f :: * -> *). (Applicative f) => f a -> f a
01:03:22 <lambdabot> forall a (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => f a -> f a
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04:05:55 <pikhq> elliott: The New York state legislature just voted to legalise same-sex marriage.
04:06:11 <elliott> do you want a fucking cookie
04:06:25 <elliott> congratulations, your legislature is not completely composed of entirely disgusting sub-humans
04:06:38 <pikhq> elliott: You live in a theocracy. You may shut up now.
04:08:45 <elliott> I live in a de jure monarchy, which is a completely different thing.
04:09:13 <elliott> A constitutional monarchy, at that.
04:22:39 <pikhq> elliott: You have no constitution, and your monarch is By the Grace of God Queen.
04:23:04 <pikhq> The very basis of your form of government is a divine grant of power.
04:23:21 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_monarchy lists the UK as a constitutional monarchy, and you are deliberately using an interpretation of "theocracy" you know to be bullshit to troll me, so basically shut up.
04:23:46 <pikhq> What constitution do you have?
04:24:49 <elliott> "Constitutional monarchy (or limited monarchy) is a form of government in which a monarch acts as head of state within the parameters of a constitution, whether it be a written, uncodified or blended constitution."
04:25:08 <elliott> We do not need an explicit, written constitution to be a constitutional monarchy.
04:25:22 <pikhq> elliott: Okay, fine, fine, I'll stop trolling and go with a much more *relevant* criticism.
04:25:33 <elliott> pikhq: Also, please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_Kingdom
04:25:37 <pikhq> elliott: Your country doesn't have same-sex marriage.
04:26:03 <elliott> pikhq: No, but it has civil unions; all that needs to be done is to abolish marriage as a governmental institution.
04:26:39 <elliott> And then remove all the additional restrictions civil unions have, but hey, how many states do you have to go?
04:30:20 <pikhq> So, in short, you have yet to do it. So your legislature may be entirely composed of entirely disgusting sub-humans.
04:30:53 <elliott> pikhq: nope, all I care about is the existence of gender-nondiscriminatory civil unions
04:31:05 <elliott> marriage is an acceptable substitute
04:31:29 <elliott> discriminatory marriage should not exist if nondiscriminatory unions exist, but it's not nearly as huge a problem
04:31:38 <pikhq> elliott: The issue being, of course, that many forms of "civil union" give distinct rights from a marriage.
04:32:04 <elliott> yeah but most of the rights marriage gives are total bullshit.
04:32:46 <elliott> because they tie the idea of loving someone unconditionally 4evaaa with certain arrangements like taxes
04:34:22 <pikhq> Okay, true, those are BS.
04:35:32 <pikhq> TBH, I'd rather for government recognition of marriage to go away, but it seems much more likely to get a gender-indiscriminate definition of the institution through than to eliminate marriage on a government level.
04:35:45 <pikhq> I mean, if you thought the "WAR ON MARRIAGE" types were bad now...
04:36:13 <elliott> i love how you let your political space be defined by what will make the biggest idiots slightly less angry
04:36:29 <Sgeo> Under interpretations of QM where wavefunction collapse occurs, when does it occur?
04:37:06 <pikhq> elliott: The important thing is to get equal treatment of all people under the law.
04:38:20 <elliott> pikhq: that won't happen in america for a long long time
04:38:25 <elliott> at least not by the current rate
04:38:34 <pikhq> elliott: It seems unwise to fight for the platonic ideal legal system, which is impractical, when you could fight to get a good legal system, which is practical.
04:39:25 <elliott> pikhq: When do you think incestuous marriages will be legalised?
04:39:37 <elliott> A billion trillion years from now?
04:40:19 <pikhq> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy
04:40:28 <elliott> <pikhq> elliott: The important thing is to get equal treatment of all people under the law.
04:40:35 <elliott> So by equal treatment of all people
04:40:37 <elliott> you mean equal treatment of some people.
04:40:42 <pikhq> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy
04:40:48 <Sgeo> elliott, he means as close an approximation as possible
04:40:49 <elliott> pikhq: I was responding to the EXACT thing you said.
04:40:53 <elliott> I did not exaggerate your claim at all.
04:41:01 <elliott> You said: Equal treatment of all people under the law, when relating to marriage.
04:41:04 * Sgeo again realizes that he should not worship elliott
04:41:15 <elliott> You didn't say "gay marriage", you didn't say anything like that, you said "equal treatment of all people".
04:41:30 <elliott> Sgeo: Sorry, in future I will assume people said other things than what they actually said to be accommodating.
04:42:01 <Sgeo> I think I may have fallen for the Nirvana fallacy before, hmm
04:42:08 <Sgeo> Don't remember when, though
04:42:16 <pikhq> elliott: You seem to think that my statement that that is *important* also means that I think it can happen.
04:42:35 <pikhq> elliott: When, in fact, that statement is meant as a statement of *priority*.
04:43:06 <elliott> OK, in a billion billion trillion years you can replace marriages with civil unions, then.
04:43:45 <elliott> I'm not being dense, you're just not making any sense and assuming it's my fault.
04:44:11 <elliott> I was talking about abolishing marriage in favour of civil unions; you said that was a far-off goal, and the important thing was equal marriage rights for all people under the law.
04:44:26 <elliott> That will take forever, so what you are saying is that replacing marriage has to wait until forever.
04:45:03 <elliott> Have you considered that it may be your failure to communicate at fault rather than my intentional denseness?
04:45:14 <elliott> I see no other way to interpret what you said.
04:45:33 <pikhq> The *intent* of that statement was "I would rather have a change in law that makes things more equitable right now than a change in law that also makes the law the platonic ideal law."
04:46:01 <pikhq> (that would undoubtedly not happen for ages, because "ZOMG WAR ON MARRIAGE")
04:46:27 <pikhq> Or, TL;DR: Shaddup.
04:46:36 <elliott> I can see that charitable interpretation, but your responses that did not immediately correct me made me assume that I had interpreted correctly the first time round. I mean, come on, you're hardly the most charitable interpreter of statements yourself.
04:47:07 <Sgeo> Am I usually a charitable interpreter of statements? I think I'm too charitable when it comes to online idiots
04:47:55 <elliott> You usually just get confused before you can actually interpret anything IME.
04:49:18 <pikhq> elliott: "It seems unwise to fight for the platonic ideal legal system, which is impractical, when you could fight to get a good legal system, which is practical." That makes sense under another interpretation?
04:51:01 <elliott> <pikhq> elliott: The important thing is to get equal treatment of all people under the law.
04:51:04 <elliott> That is the statement in question.
04:51:09 <pikhq> That was my response.
04:51:10 <elliott> I pushed <pikhq> elliott: It seems unwise to fight for the platonic ideal legal system, which is impractical, when you could fight to get a good legal system, which is practical.
04:51:15 <elliott> to the stack while answering <pikhq> How so?
04:51:18 <elliott> in reply to <elliott> pikhq: that won't happen in america for a long long time
04:51:19 <elliott> <elliott> at least not by the current rate
04:51:22 <elliott> which was in reply to <pikhq> elliott: The important thing is to get equal treatment of all people under the law.
04:51:35 <elliott> Technically it was at the top of the stack until just now when you popped it.
04:52:21 <pikhq> I'm pretty sure our stacks got desynced.
04:53:17 <elliott> let's talk about something more fun:
04:53:18 <elliott> Runtime bound checking is retarded. You need it only for code that is buggy in the first place. I manage a multi million LOC project in C and not once in the 8 years I worked for that project would a bound checking have helped to find a bug. Are there array bound overflows in our code? May be, probably not much. Would it matter, not in the least, would the wasted time matter, yes a lot. If bound checking matters to you, go on,play with Java, Pasc
04:53:18 <elliott> al and others, but let us our C which allows us to get as near as bare metal as it gets. – tristopia May 16 '10 at 9:47
04:54:06 <pikhq> Heheh, *misguided* programmer machismo.
04:54:38 <pikhq> This guy probably also thinks garbage collection is slow.
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05:17:02 <zzo38> The six side cards game is a more stategic game. Sometimes the best defense is to let the opponent knock you out. Sometimes the best defense is to not attack. Sometimes the best offensive move is to use CURSE or something like that......
05:17:51 <zzo38> If you know your opponent's deck you might want to use the PROPHECY defense
06:08:01 <elliott> "The terms combiner and operative were favored for their mnemonic value. Applicative was chosen for its mnemonic semi-symmetry with operative (see also [Ba78,
06:08:01 <elliott> §2.2.2]); more stringent symmetry would have analogized operand/operative with argument/argumentative, but the term argumentative was too distracting to use."
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06:48:47 <elliott> Deewiant: In REFC, does R always return the same scalar for the same vector?
06:48:54 <elliott> Or can it produce a new scalar each time?
06:49:09 <elliott> And if the latter, would this be an inefficient implementation?
07:05:31 <zzo38> It seems that the rand.Next() esolang is really a variant of Wait.
07:08:30 <elliott> huh, people find iteratees hard to understand
07:26:56 <Sgeo> Well, I just played Portal 2 multipayer with either my friend or my friend's sister, not entirely sure which
07:28:37 <Sgeo> I couldn't tell if the game was making my friend's voice high-pitched, or that was his sister in a more normal voice
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07:39:34 <lambdabot> err: `State s' is not applied to enough arguments, giving `/\A. s -> (A, s)'
07:41:03 <elliott> ?unmtl ReaderT s (WriterT s (StateT r ST)) a
07:41:17 <newsham> ReaderT WriterT ArithmeticT
07:41:48 <lambdabot> Source not found. The more you drive -- the dumber you get.
07:41:55 <lambdabot> Source not found. And you call yourself a Rocket Scientist!
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07:42:14 <elliott> woo, this might actually work
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07:55:32 <elliott> wow, enumerator use can be really counter-intuitive
07:55:48 <elliott> E.printChunks True E.>>== EB.enumHandle 8192 h -- how do I print every chunk of an enumerator? simple, feed the printer _in_ to it. err...
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08:19:08 <elliott> ?hoogle Int -> m a -> m [a]
08:19:09 <lambdabot> Control.Monad replicateM :: Monad m => Int -> m a -> m [a]
08:19:09 <lambdabot> Text.ParserCombinators.ReadP count :: Int -> ReadP a -> ReadP [a]
08:26:32 <lambdabot> Text.Regex.Posix.ByteString compIgnoreCase :: CompOption
08:26:32 <lambdabot> Text.Regex.Posix.Sequence compIgnoreCase :: CompOption
08:26:33 <lambdabot> Text.Regex.Posix.String compIgnoreCase :: CompOption
08:26:34 <lambdabot> Foreign.Marshal.Error void :: IO a -> IO ()
08:27:08 <lambdabot> System.IO.Error doesNotExistErrorType :: IOErrorType
08:27:08 <lambdabot> Network.StreamSocket handleSocketError :: Socket -> IOException -> IO (Result a)
08:27:08 <lambdabot> System.IO.Error ioeGetErrorString :: IOError -> String
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09:09:35 <elliott> who the fuck is running krbot
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09:46:21 <Deewiant> elliott: It can, and no, not particularly inefficient, REFC is inefficient by definition
09:47:29 <elliott> Deewiant: Right, I'm just wondering whether the idea is to have an immutable store of vectors or a bijection of sorts
09:50:51 <elliott> Do you just generate a new integer each time?
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09:57:05 <elliott> oerjan: its been joining then quitting for abotu an hour now
09:57:21 <elliott> (it has never said a thing)
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09:58:38 <elliott> (diff) (hist) . . Talk:Meta Turing-complete; 07:51 . . (+491) . . TehZ (Talk | contribs)
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09:58:45 <elliott> oerjan: have you got a fire extinguisher
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09:59:19 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Meta_Turing-complete
10:00:52 <Deewiant> elliott: Yes, an array to which the new vector gets appended every time
10:03:57 <elliott> dunno why I'm bothering, tehz is an idiot
10:05:04 <elliott> Deewiant: Hey, you're a knowledgable kind of guy, what's the Wikipedia-namespace page spelling out that the existence of worse offenders does not justify a page being bad?
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10:18:24 <elliott> Message (Just (ServerPrefix "wolfe.freenode.net")) (Command "NOTICE") ["*","*** No Ident response"]
10:18:25 <elliott> Message Nothing (Command "ERROR") ["Closing Link: 127.0.0.1 (Connection timed out)"]
10:18:25 <elliott> Message (Just (ServerPrefix "wolfe.freenode.net")) (Command "NOTICE") ["*","*** Couldn't look up your hostname"]
10:18:28 <elliott> WHY IS THIS IN THE WRONG ORDER
10:20:05 <elliott> why is it nondeterministic
10:21:04 <coppro> this filibuster is awesome
10:24:16 <coppro> Sgeo: The House of Commons of Canada is experiencing a filibuster right now
10:24:34 <coppro> an honest-to-god let's-talk-ourselves-dead-about-how-this-is-a-bad-idea filibuster
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10:27:33 <Sgeo> What's being filibustered exactly?
10:28:05 <elliott> the concept of filibustering
10:32:47 <oerjan> i never meta filibuster
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10:34:21 <augur> elliott: wait what
10:34:46 <oerjan> trust elliott, he never lies
10:34:57 <augur> well, i could believe it
10:35:04 <augur> its entirely plausible
10:35:17 <oerjan> its entirely plausible what?
10:35:18 <augur> controversial legislation often gets filibustered
10:35:29 <augur> and filibuster legislation is among the most controversial
10:35:37 <augur> its often called the nuclear option
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10:55:03 <coppro> Sgeo: sorry, was off writing
10:55:09 <coppro> Sgeo: A back-to-work bill for Canada Post
10:55:17 <coppro> it looks to be a pretty damn rotten bill for the union
10:58:16 <elliott> oerjan: Is :^S() Underload output-complete?
11:00:24 <oerjan> i doubt it, there is trouble printing many strings
11:00:55 <elliott> oerjan: Howso? Lack of arbitrary effect at arbitrary point type thing for S?
11:01:06 <oerjan> e.g. there is just no way you can make (((:^):^))S in a self-deletable way
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11:05:30 <oerjan> that section implies only some printing is supported.
11:05:53 <oerjan> there is a trick i used to sometimes be able to print _one_ arbitrary string
11:06:13 <oerjan> (you can put it in the beginning of the program so you never need to delete it)
11:07:01 <elliott> how do you encode lists in underload again? I am so rusty :(
11:08:58 <oerjan> ((a)~^(b)~^(c)~^...) is one way, that requires you to always iterate through the whole list, though
11:09:09 <oerjan> another way is to use conses
11:10:28 <oerjan> (that one has no useful end mark, you can add a flag at each step or something)
11:10:53 <coppro> Sgeo: The house has been sitting for nearly 48 hours now
11:11:11 <elliott> oerjan: the former is basically a fold, right?
11:12:02 <elliott> oerjan: hm is there a way to make it a lazy fold somehow...
11:12:06 <elliott> to avoid the whole-list thing
11:12:41 <oerjan> elliott: that's what the cons version is for
11:13:30 <elliott> oerjan: but that one is ugly
11:13:51 <elliott> oerjan: i'm thinking you could pass a thunk to the folding function instead
11:14:14 <oerjan> well it _needs_ to be nested if you are to avoid evaluation from an arbitrary point, i think...
11:14:58 <elliott> ((a)~((b)~((c)~(...)~^)~^)~^)
11:15:17 <lambdabot> forall a b. (a -> b -> b) -> b -> [a] -> b
11:17:07 <elliott> oerjan: hm what's cons with that...
11:17:57 <elliott> ^ul (a(~)*~^a*(~^)*)((a)~((b)~((c)~(...)~^)~^)~^)^S
11:18:14 <elliott> !underload (a(~)*~^a*(~^)*)((a)~((b)~((c)~(...)~^)~^)~^)^S
11:18:16 <EgoBot> Error: Stack underflow in *
11:18:32 <elliott> !underload ()(a(~)*~^a*(~^)*)((a)~((b)~((c)~()~^)~^)~^)^S
11:18:32 <EgoBot> ((((b)~((c)~()~^)~^)~))~^
11:19:43 <elliott> oerjan: you sound unimpressed with my structure :D
11:19:52 <elliott> !underload ()(a(~)*~^a*(~^)*)((a)~((b)~((c)~(^)~^)~^)~^)^S
11:19:53 <EgoBot> ((((b)~((c)~(^)~^)~^)~))~^
11:19:54 <oerjan> i'm not much in the mood for this
11:21:03 <oerjan> don't you want the consing code at the top...
11:21:40 <elliott> oerjan: um i'm trying to do foldr (:)
11:22:03 <elliott> !underload ()(a(~)*~^~a*(~^)*)((a)~((b)~((c)~(^)~^)~^)~^)^S
11:22:03 <EgoBot> (((b)~((c)~(^)~^)~^)~)()~^
11:22:12 <oerjan> well you need your thunk to self-duplicate so you can use it at the next step
11:22:16 <elliott> i'm worried that changing my function seems to do very little :D
11:22:27 <elliott> oerjan: the idea is that the list itself handles the thunk... i think
11:22:33 <elliott> this structure is not very elegant >_>
11:22:35 <coppro> Sgeo: http://blog.pirateparty.ca/?p=133 if you want more explanation
11:22:46 <oerjan> well as written, it doesn't :P
11:23:21 <oerjan> elliott: my intuition is that lists might be large, so you don't want them to include more of the logic for using them than necessary
11:23:49 <elliott> oerjan: yeah... the cons structure is probably better, even if it is ugly :(
11:24:46 <oerjan> i don't see what's so ugly about it
11:24:47 <elliott> "Anyhow, this Senator read from his own book and was, in a brilliant move, accused by the other side of reading from it just to receive a free translation from the Parliamentary transcriptions."
11:26:54 <coppro> elliott: rotating sleep obviously. The House has been sitting continously
11:27:03 <coppro> the Conservatives are in a real bind, as I note at the bottom
11:27:23 <coppro> since they can't move the previous question
11:27:32 <elliott> coppro: meh, they should ban sleeping in parliament
11:27:37 <elliott> make it a battle of strength
11:27:49 <elliott> penalties for non-grammatical sentences, slurring
11:28:07 <oerjan> elliott: if the list handles the thunk, then that means the list automatically folds, which means you must always iterate through all of it...
11:28:27 <coppro> elliott: They don't sleep in the House proper
11:28:28 <elliott> oerjan: um it puts (current element)(rest of list) on the stack, basically
11:28:39 <elliott> when calling the fold function
11:28:49 <coppro> I'd guess there's about 30-40 members in the house at any time
11:28:53 <elliott> coppro: where is their sense of theatre???
11:28:55 <coppro> 20 from the cons to maintain quorum
11:29:11 <coppro> and enough on the other side that they don't ever lose the debate accidentally
11:29:11 <oerjan> elliott: well ok then it's just that the fold function needs to duplicate itself
11:29:36 <elliott> oerjan: ...which makes this basically the cons representation but weird
11:29:51 <elliott> in fact, I think it's identical to the cons representation with a pointless function call included
11:33:11 <elliott> oerjan: anyway what I _really_ want is some kind of possibly-infinite stream type
11:33:16 <oerjan> you _might_ make it a lazy fold, i think
11:33:20 <elliott> which necessarily involves some laziness
11:34:00 <elliott> hmm, /me wonders how efficient a Smith numeral can be
11:34:17 <oerjan> always essentially unary when you use it
11:34:23 <elliott> you can do powers of two logarithmically, and you can add unaryily
11:34:46 <oerjan> but can be _written_ equivalently to binary easily
11:34:47 <elliott> "better go to the next power of two so it's smaller to store"
11:35:04 <elliott> oerjan: um really? 2^m + n yes
11:35:21 <oerjan> well not the exact same _syntax_ of course
11:35:43 <elliott> yes but that's not quite binary...
11:37:27 <elliott> oerjan: can i try and ask you for a lazy stream type you think is nice? :D
11:37:43 <elliott> i'm trying to come up with a sideset of Underload that has nice IO-complete semantics...
11:37:49 <oerjan> WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE CONSES
11:37:56 <elliott> trying to do it by just treating programs as [bit] -> [bit]
11:37:59 <elliott> oerjan: um that's not _lazy_
11:38:03 <elliott> how you do an infinite list of twos?
11:38:47 <EgoBot> Error: Stack underflow in ~
11:39:17 <elliott> !underload (()~:a~*):a~*^SS
11:39:57 <oerjan> um i was just writing almost the exact same thing
11:40:34 <elliott> that's not an infinite list of ()s though...
11:40:57 <elliott> <elliott> !underload (()~:a~*):a~*^SS
11:40:57 <elliott> <EgoBot> (()~:a~*)()~:a~*
11:40:59 <elliott> it should end or start with ()
11:41:00 <oerjan> !underload (()~:a~*):a~*^aSaS
11:41:37 <elliott> now is that or my planned 01I scheme better...
11:41:58 <elliott> (0 -- output 0 bit; 1 -- output 1 bit; (x)(y)I === (x) if 0 inputted, (y) if 1 inputted)
11:42:57 <oerjan> incidentally you can never get IO-complete underload because of parenthesis matching >:)
11:43:15 <elliott> oerjan: um no i am outputting with bits
11:43:35 <elliott> oerjan: what? even ais ditched the underload IO scheme in underlambda because it sucked :)
11:43:52 <elliott> (for one, it basically makes any kind of optimisation impossible unless you leak a bunch of space storing the original string)
11:44:05 <elliott> (for two, it forces you to embed invalid programs just to output them...)
11:44:15 <elliott> (for three, no way to do input consistently at all)
11:44:51 * oerjan offers his :^ input scheme and cackles evilly
11:44:58 <elliott> oerjan: what scheme was that?
11:45:10 <oerjan> the one used in the rule 110 CA
11:45:59 <oerjan> one of two possibilities i found for encoding one bit per char
11:54:03 <elliott> wish ais was here so i could steal his ideas
11:54:21 * oerjan finds a typo in the :()^ description
12:13:55 <Phantom_Hoover> Am I the only person who found the number of Jew jokes in American media confusing as hell?
12:13:55 <lambdabot> Phantom_Hoover: You have 7 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
12:14:58 <oerjan> The Daily Phantom_Hoover
12:15:31 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: thats just because youre a filthy kike LOL
12:15:47 <elliott> <oerjan> omg I BAnexclamtion marks
12:15:54 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: no u dont cuz ur a jew => dumb
12:19:50 <oerjan> hey no sperm in the channel
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13:17:44 <elliott> Browsing of this document (that is, transmission and display of a temporary copy of this document for the ordinary purpose of direct viewing by a human being in the usual manner that hypertext browsers permit such viewing) is expressly permitted, provided that no recopying, redistribution, redisplay, or retransmission is made of any such copy.
13:17:45 <elliott> Bookmarking of this document (that is, recording only the document's title and Uniform Resource Locator, or URL, but not its content, for the purpose of remembering an association between the document's title and the URL, and/or for the purpose of making a subsequent request for a fresh copy of the content named by that URL) is also expressly permitted.
13:23:30 <CakeProphet> I wish Perl had some kind of "HEY SUPPRESS WARNINGS ON THIS LINE" annotation.
13:24:32 <elliott> its called commenting that line out
13:24:51 <CakeProphet> no, I want it to execute. I just no longer care about the warning.
13:25:09 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: SUSPECT WARTHOGS OWN THIS LIE).
13:26:16 <CakeProphet> but it doesn't matter. my shell output only serves to output warnings and debug info anyways.
13:26:36 <CakeProphet> I guess if I were writing a command-line utility I'd eventually comment out use warnings
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17:31:06 <Gregor> Conservapedia's news section's coverage of the New York gay marriage bill puts the word "marriage" in scare quotes X-D
17:31:28 -!- ralc has joined.
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17:34:40 <tswett> Yeah, doesn't Conservapedia only allow access to people in the US or something?
17:36:16 <elliott> its been loosened recently
17:39:37 <Gregor> France, of all places, is apparently allowed :P
17:39:49 <Gregor> Maybe in France they /need/ that beacon of hope to carry one.
17:41:12 <tswett> Conservapedia's energy on homeopathy seems pretty accurate.
17:51:33 <Gregor> LOLOLOL: PERFECTION: Best New Conservative Words reach the perfect doubling of 26-52-104-208 by century, demonstrating why the future will inevitably be more conservative.
17:51:54 <Gregor> Doesn't the concept of "new conservative word" go directly against the notion of conservativism? :P
17:52:15 <pikhq> "New" goes against the notion, but don't you dare tell them that.
17:52:58 <Gregor> Amongst the conservative words listed:
17:53:45 <tswett> I'm not a liberal. I go jogging three times a week.
17:53:57 <tswett> And I sleep regularly.
17:54:23 <Gregor> bureaucracy (a word to be proud of if ever there was one)
17:55:17 <Gregor> copyright (another word to hold dear to your heart)
17:55:49 <Gregor> decrypt 'illustrates the "can do" approach of conservatism in a patriotic way'
17:56:10 <Gregor> Ruining the decrypter's life because he's gay ALSO illustrates the can-do approach of conservatism :P
17:56:14 <monqy> how are these words conservative and how does the illustrate the inevitability of a conservative future
17:56:33 <Gregor> monqy: That's the joy of Conservapedia!
17:58:12 <Gregor> galvanize (1802) as in, "the liberal proposals galvanized the grassroots in opposition" // lolol
17:58:44 <Gregor> hippie (A more conservative word I am yet to find)
17:59:00 <Gregor> homosexual agenda (this is totes one word)
17:59:13 <Gregor> human rights (conservatives invented them guys)
18:00:20 <Gregor> intellectual property (another word to be written in the 11th commandment)
18:00:29 <newsham> did you get the latest newspeak guide?
18:01:10 <Gregor> newsham: Yes, it's right here on Conservapedia!
18:01:34 <Gregor> Oooh, manifest destiny! Another "word" to stamp on everything
18:02:13 <Gregor> Murphy's Law (1958) if something can go wrong, then it will go wrong: this was a conservative insight by an engineer Edward Murphy
18:02:45 <Gregor> newsham: Heyo, newspeak is one of the words they claim too!
18:03:57 <Gregor> phonics (1684) conservatives have long championed phonics to promote literacy, Bible-reading, and informed voters; liberals take the opposite position
18:04:47 <Gregor> productive and productivity are both theirs.
18:05:08 <Gregor> It's a good thing they claim "pseudoscience", since it makes up the bulk of Conservapedia :P
18:05:15 <monqy> how much of conservapedia is literally a joke
18:05:36 <Gregor> They claim "refudiate"!
18:05:54 <monqy> they can have refudiate
18:06:03 -!- Lymee has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
18:06:22 <Gregor> Oh no, they've got the Segway!
18:06:54 <Gregor> Well "socialist" is unquestionably a conservative word.
18:08:24 <Gregor> word poverty (2001) popularized by President George W. Bush // Yes, Dubya unquestionably popularized word poverty :P
18:09:42 <newsham> progressive wasnt their word, but they rebranded it.
18:10:02 <newsham> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Poverty
18:10:47 <newsham> damn democrats pre-coopting their word
18:10:57 <newsham> (they can have "pre-coopt" if they want)
18:11:49 <elliott> `addquote <Gregor> decrypt 'illustrates the "can do" approach of conservatism in a patriotic way'
18:11:53 <HackEgo> 470) <Gregor> decrypt 'illustrates the "can do" approach of conservatism in a patriotic way'
18:12:49 <Gregor> Ah yes, the out-of-context quote DB :P
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18:20:22 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, have you beheld the glory of the Conservative Bible Project.
18:20:50 <Phantom_Hoover> At one point they said that Jesus telling the disciples to cast their nets on the right side of their boat was a clear endorsement of conservatism.
18:23:35 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: lololol
18:24:21 <Phantom_Hoover> They also entirely excised the story of the adulterous woman because it went against the death penalty.
18:24:42 <Phantom_Hoover> I think this just confirms that atheists who think they're this way because of religion are on entirely the wrong page.
18:25:30 <Gregor> "Express Free Market Parables; explaining the numerous economic parables with their full free-market meaning " // bahahahaha
18:26:10 <pikhq_> They actually want Republican Jesus. Goodness.
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18:34:21 <elliott> (diff) (hist) . . Talk:Meta Turing-complete; 14:48 . . (+688) . . TehZ (Talk | contribs)
18:34:24 <elliott> oh do i want to click this link
18:34:38 <elliott> monqy: i need your moral support
18:34:43 <monqy> [[Talk: Meta Turing-complete]] is awful
18:34:51 <zzo38> O NO. I see some wrong symbol on that paste
18:35:01 <elliott> monqy: please let us read it together
18:35:20 <elliott> I can't respond to this until you tell me if you've misplaced the '?'s. --TehZ 14:48, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
18:35:28 <monqy> yeah what does that mean
18:35:36 <elliott> i think hes trying to be awkward?
18:35:43 <elliott> maybe its meant to be all internet snark
18:35:49 <elliott> It has been used more than once, not just once.--TehZ 14:48, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
18:35:53 <elliott> wow look at all this evidence being presented
18:35:57 <monqy> he used it in brainmaker was it
18:36:24 <monqy> this makes it legit
18:36:56 <monqy> I know it's a fallacy if you see it without context, but not if someone suggested taking them down while not doing it. In that case, it would be illogical to keep the worst and delete the ones you claim are bad. --TehZ 14:48, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
18:38:10 <monqy> maybe he's mad that the worse articles haven't been deleted and they have to be deleted before his?
18:39:16 <zzo38> I think the page should be kept to keep the discussion text there at least.
18:39:41 <elliott> zzo38: move to [[Esolang:How not to debate the merits of pages]]
18:41:41 <zzo38> Should there be "Talk talk:" and "Talk talk talk:" prefixes?
18:42:05 <elliott> opt(what.form.state, "AGY", "AGY");
18:45:44 <Gregor> Uhhh, what's all this mumbo-jumbo?
18:46:03 <elliott> Gregor: prgmr shows British counties...
18:46:07 <elliott> Gregor: As weird three-letter abbreviations.
18:46:12 <elliott> That I have literally never seen ever.
18:46:16 <elliott> I have no fucking clue what Northumberland's is
18:46:22 <elliott> It's not NTL nor NBL or anything
18:48:04 <zzo38> Do you know how you can implement something like INTERCAL's computed RESUME in LLVM?
18:48:06 <Gregor> Just copied some nonsense from Wikipedia.
18:48:18 <Gregor> It's the ISO 3166-2 code *shrugs*
18:48:20 <elliott> also it still wants a zip cod
18:50:11 <Gregor> Surely you have some comparable postal code to fill in there?
18:50:19 <elliott> But it also wants my city, I don't live in a city
18:50:22 <elliott> THIS FORM IS ALL KINDS OF BAD
18:50:32 <elliott> Also it says "State/Country" instead of "State/County"
18:50:41 <elliott> DEFINITELY WANT TO TRUST THESE GUYS WITH BILLING INFORMATION
18:50:53 <elliott> "Don't choose Prepaid Card unless you got it from Luke in a promotion at a lug."
18:51:49 <Gregor> Maybe you should list your "country" as England and your "nation" as UK X-P
18:52:02 <elliott> I almost want to write them a nicer form out of pity.
18:52:36 <Gregor> I ... have not been a lurker for, like, years.
18:52:47 <Gregor> Maybe for a week at a time or so, but that's called "having a life" :P
18:52:58 <oerjan> in fact he never reads the channel without speaking immediately
18:53:12 <elliott> Gregor: do you have any idea how overrated lives are
18:53:21 <elliott> `addquote <elliott> Gregor: do you have any idea how overrated lives are <Gregor> Damn right!
18:53:22 <HackEgo> 471) <elliott> Gregor: do you have any idea how overrated lives are <Gregor> Damn right!
18:53:46 <oerjan> Gregor: see, quotes with context this time!
18:54:14 <Gregor> "<Gregor> Damn right!" wouldn't be much of a quote :P
18:55:25 <elliott> `addquote <Gregor> "<Gregor> Damn right!" wouldn't be much of a quote :P
18:55:26 <HackEgo> 472) <Gregor> "<Gregor> Damn right!" wouldn't be much of a quote :P
18:55:59 -!- Lymia has changed nick to Lymee.
18:58:16 <zzo38> Let's try to figure out how to implement some of INTERCAL's features using LLVM
18:59:08 <zzo38> I think I have read something recently about a variant of LLVM that has something similar to the ABSTAIN/REINSTATE commands in INTERCAL.
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19:12:06 <elliott> its time to say goodnight to rutian
19:12:28 <elliott> oerjan: Slereah: your past
19:13:12 <elliott> http://i.imgur.com/A6UQ3.png
19:13:53 -!- derrik has changed nick to everyone.
19:14:13 -!- everyone has changed nick to derrik.
19:14:18 <elliott> jesus, was that really the 626th slice ever??
19:17:38 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: This form doesn't work correctly).
19:21:48 <elliott> Debian GNU/Linux 6.0 rutian tty1
19:21:54 <elliott> INIT: Switching to runlevel: 0
19:21:57 <elliott> INIT: Sending processes the TERM signal
19:22:00 <elliott> INIT: cannot execute "/etc/init.d/rc"
19:22:03 <elliott> INIT: no more processes left in this runlevel
19:22:17 <elliott> Deleting will destroy your Slice and all of its data. It will be removed from your account and you will not be billed for it in the future.
19:22:33 <Lymee> That was a violent end.
19:22:47 <elliott> Permanently delete this Slice and all of its data? There is no turning back!
19:22:50 <elliott> why would you ask me again
19:22:58 <elliott> i can never call any computer rutian after this, ever again
19:23:11 <newsham> "republican jesus" sounds like a good song name
19:23:21 <newsham> perhaps someone can get in touch with tom waits
19:23:41 <elliott> newsham: excuse me this is a very emotional moment
19:23:43 <newsham> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wfamPW3Eaw
19:23:53 <Lymee> What VPS provider is this?
19:24:00 <elliott> Lymee: slicehost, they used to be great, now they suck
19:24:06 <elliott> brand being phased out anywy
19:25:23 <newsham> dont you think execution of rc is a bit extreme?
19:25:41 <elliott> newsham: i was trying to give it a dignified death, not just wiping all the harddrive at once
19:25:46 <elliott> so i set up a memorial and removed /usr, /bin and /home
19:25:52 <elliott> but then i forgot to leave a way to become root to reboot
19:25:59 <elliott> like i was aiming to cut its head clean off
19:26:01 <elliott> and got caught on its spine
19:26:09 <newsham> its linux, it cant be too hard to get root
19:26:58 <newsham> does your init catch ctrl-alt-del for a clean reboot?
19:27:07 <elliott> newsham: how can i sent ctrl+alt+del over ssh
19:30:23 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
19:30:32 -!- oerjan has kicked elliott YOU MONSTER!.
19:30:41 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
19:31:24 <newsham> i mean, killing processes is one thing, but EXECUTING rc?!@#
19:31:43 -!- rutian has joined.
19:31:53 <rutian> i have always been here .
19:32:02 <oerjan> the ghost of slices past!
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19:32:39 <elliott> HELLO GUYS EVERYTHING IS SUPER FINE .
19:32:48 <elliott> I AM DEFINITELY NOT A GHOST PRETENDING TO BE ELLIOTT .
19:32:52 <elliott> THAT WOULD BE RIDICULOUS .
19:33:24 <oerjan> just elliott spacing out
19:33:52 <newsham> i know everythign hasnt always been quite right with me but i can asure you now very confidently that it is going to be alright again
19:36:03 <elliott> that has already been tried .
19:36:19 <oerjan> newsham: is that a quote? i cannot find it but it gives me a The Shining vibe...
19:36:27 <Lymee> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mem
19:37:00 <oerjan> well the vibes may not be very different at that point :P
19:37:50 <oerjan> elliott devastated by death, turns into kurzweil clone
19:38:15 <newsham> saved by the kurzweil singularity
19:38:22 <elliott> im going to resurrect rutian
19:38:36 <oerjan> newsham: um i think that is missing the point :P
19:38:39 <elliott> `addquote <elliott> im going to resurrect rutian <elliott> with vitamin pills <elliott> and book sales
19:38:40 <HackEgo> 473) <elliott> im going to resurrect rutian <elliott> with vitamin pills <elliott> and book sales
19:38:41 <elliott> i can add new quotes whenever i want
19:39:37 <oerjan> `addquote <oerjan> adding quotes by yourself is strictly prohibited and will lead to you being banned
19:39:38 <HackEgo> 474) <oerjan> adding quotes by yourself is strictly prohibited and will lead to you being banned
19:42:06 <oerjan> but i don't feel like banning myself
19:42:36 <Lymee> But the line only occurs in the future.
19:42:41 <Lymee> So it doesn't count.
19:43:33 <newsham> oerjan: sometimes missing the point is best
19:43:49 <newsham> spears and daggers come to mind
19:44:24 <newsham> this channel feels very disassociative
19:44:35 <elliott> we usually make slightly more sense
19:44:39 <oerjan> elliott: i shall excuse your insolence since you are grieving
19:44:52 <newsham> in a "mental illness is the road to freedom" sort of way
19:45:02 <elliott> that's kind of the esolang concept isn't it
19:45:39 <oerjan> the road to freedom is paved with mental illnesses
19:46:10 <newsham> if you're on the paved road, you're not going anywhere important
19:46:52 <oerjan> those pesky roads paved with atoms are particularly insidious
19:47:13 <oerjan> although not as much as those paved with wilderness
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19:52:42 <oerjan> newsham: we prefer to call them particles of color
19:54:56 <newsham> though I can never figure out their position and momentum :(
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20:00:24 <elliott> we are mourning a very sad loss today
20:00:28 <elliott> I just ... "decommissioned" rutian
20:01:02 <elliott> But it shall rise again, its soul incarnated into the heart of a faster, more spacious VPS!
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20:11:46 <elliott_> ais523: anyway, don't worry, rutian is happily flying around in a spaceship. forever.
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20:15:47 <oerjan> is it on many other channels?
20:16:31 <oerjan> well it was a _lot_, some of you might happen to be on one...
20:16:54 <elliott_> oerjan: how can you tell if it's a lot?
20:17:08 <oerjan> ais523: no idea but it quit/joined so often this morning that i banned it
20:17:36 <elliott_> it didnt respond last time i tried
20:17:36 <ais523> it doesn't respond to ctcp
20:19:13 <oerjan> apparently krbot is a surname...
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21:26:13 <newsham> ?fixen you should apologize to elliott__.
21:27:23 <lambdabot> I am on the net too much. I should do a net anonymoouse group. online of course.
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21:28:09 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: lambdabot commands are not haskell functions
21:34:18 <elliott_> THIS IS QUITE IMPORTANT GREGOR
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21:42:20 <ais523> suppose I have identical large data files in both an installed-via-package version of a program, and a local development repository
21:42:25 <ais523> how insane would it be to hardlink the two together?
21:43:13 <oerjan> ...so you want copy-on-write filesystem sharing :P
21:43:28 <ais523> oerjan: deduplication, really
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21:43:57 <ais523> the nature of the files is such that if the development files changed, and made the same changes to the core files as a consequence, it wouldn't break anything
21:43:58 -!- Kr1sp13kr3m3 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:44:29 <ais523> hmm, Kr1sp13kr3m3 is the same person as krbot
21:44:55 <elliott_> hasn't said a word, continual excess flood quits earlier
21:45:05 <ais523> also, that name is a pain to type while not in-channel (so tab-complete didn't work)
21:45:09 <ais523> I should have copy-pasted, really
21:45:19 <elliott_> very hard if you don't have number keys
21:45:22 <oerjan> i thought Kr1sp13kr3m3 was a regular
21:45:35 <elliott_> oerjan: a regular join-quitter, maybe :D
21:45:50 <oerjan> i mean who had spoken at one point
21:46:11 <oerjan> oh hm so krbot obviously stands for Kr1sp13kr3m3-bot
21:46:45 <elliott_> elliott@elliott-MacBookAir:~/logs$ grep -r Kr1sp13kr3m3 .
21:46:45 <elliott_> elliott@elliott-MacBookAir:~/logs$
21:47:18 <oerjan> elliott_: well e _may_ have used a less 1337 version of eir nick before
21:48:30 <elliott_> can't believe 1337 is an actual english word now
21:49:32 <CakeProphet> I thought 1337 was leet for the English word leet? :D
21:50:10 <monqy> is it really a real word?
21:52:36 <elliott_> either 1337 is used, or it isn't
21:52:47 <ais523> it's clearly a word, it's just unclear in which language
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21:52:52 <CakeProphet> I believe reputable dictionaries should include the word clusterfuck
21:52:53 <ais523> I think it may be becoming an English loanword
21:53:09 <CakeProphet> define:clusterfuck only shows Wiktionary and Urban Dictionary.
21:53:16 <elliott_> ais523: hmm, now I want to define a language with only one word
21:53:19 <elliott_> ais523: and get English to loan it
21:53:30 <ais523> elliott_: Spivak is close
21:53:40 <ais523> it has something like five words
21:53:41 <elliott_> ais523: preferably, the word itself should be defined as referring to the singleton language
21:53:57 <oerjan> CakeProphet: define: works for you? it stopped working for me...
21:54:21 <CakeProphet> though nowadays I have a little dictionary search bar on my bottom panel.
21:55:15 <CakeProphet> oerjan: maybe it's because you're Swedish and Google doesn't like you or something.
21:55:29 * oerjan swats CakeProphet -----###
21:55:54 <CakeProphet> well, I mean, it could seriously be some kind of weird locale thing.
21:56:49 <ais523> CakeProphet: the point is that oerjan isn't Swedish
21:56:56 <ais523> you really deserve a swat for that
21:57:10 <oerjan> CakeProphet: it doesn't even work if i go to the english language google :(
21:57:57 <CakeProphet> ah, my bad. I have a difficult time keeping up with who is from where.
21:59:15 <oerjan> typical of you canadians
21:59:42 <CakeProphet> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16495819/Screenshot-1.png
21:59:44 * oerjan actually has no clue whether CakeProphet _is_ canadian or not
22:00:19 <CakeProphet> no I have the much more despicable regionality of the southern United States.
22:00:40 <CakeProphet> *southeastern, technically... we decide to ignore these complexities when talking about north and south though.
22:00:50 <olsner> oerjan: it's 50/50: either he is or he isn't - and either way you're half right :)
22:02:26 <CakeProphet> which is an excellent substitute for a fuzzy boolean value.
22:02:30 <oerjan> olsner: technically i chose which of the two possibilities was a priori most likely to be wrong :P
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22:02:58 <oerjan> so bayesianly speaking i guess i had _some_ clue
22:04:47 <oerjan> CakeProphet: was that link supposed to indicate you're from georgia?
22:05:34 <CakeProphet> and it also suggests that I have some kind of obsession with Nazis, but this is not true.
22:06:09 -!- Lymee has joined.
22:06:15 <oerjan> CakeProphet: um are you _sure_ you pasted the right link?
22:07:40 <oerjan> CakeProphet: also you are obsessed with taxes and perl
22:08:45 <Phantom_Hoover> All those wasted childhood winters praying for some actual snow for once, and as soon as I hit puberty we're under 20cm of the stuff.
22:09:13 <Phantom_Hoover> Well OK that's inaccurate, the proper snow only really started in the 2009/2010 winter.
22:09:19 <CakeProphet> oerjan: I bet dropbox was still uploading my screenshot because of my abysmal network connection, and thus was showing my last screenshot.
22:11:56 <olsner> I got the same results for define:clusterfuck and just "define clusterfuck", looked like it didn't actually treat define as a special word at all but rather just did a normal search
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22:20:01 <oerjan> CakeProphet: anyway, that's not how define: used to work, it used to give a different style with dictionary entries
22:20:30 <CakeProphet> oh, well, it still does that actually. with realer words.
22:22:52 <oerjan> nope, define:hello gives an ordinary search page
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22:23:40 <CakeProphet> oerjan: that's because you're a Norwegian though. Your define: results are not an appropriate test of googles defining power.
22:24:03 <CakeProphet> we can only assume this is because Google hates you and your country.
22:25:24 <CakeProphet> but seriously, that's actually odd because it works for me.
22:25:39 <elliott_> try using what define is in your language
22:25:52 <CakeProphet> but he also tried the english language google.
22:26:32 <oerjan> olsner: define:clusterfuck _does_ seem to put actual dictionary results a bit further up
22:27:57 <oerjan> i've heard we smell of milk and soap
22:29:22 <CakeProphet> I would think milk and soap just smells like soap...
22:32:01 <CakeProphet> elliott_: but yes, define: still works right?
22:32:19 <oerjan> the english google for define:hello gives me a top link which seems to lead to an actual google dictionary service
22:33:06 <CakeProphet> oerjan: yeah, okay. so Google just hates swedes.
22:48:24 <CakeProphet> I think bfjoust could be a bit more interesting if it had a fork command, similar to corewars SPT
22:49:09 <CakeProphet> where all of the processes are round robin and alternate between each jouster. So by using split you can be at two places at once, but it takes twice as long to move.
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22:52:49 <ais523> CakeProphet: quite possibly, but I'm not sure how good the tactic would be
22:52:59 <ais523> unlike in corewars, where splitting is definitely an advantage
22:53:18 <CakeProphet> I think it would make you more suceptible to a rush.
22:54:54 <CakeProphet> though you could split and have one process on your flag to defend it. Still that would only delay a rush
22:58:29 <ais523> if you have more than two processes, you can't maintain a lock
22:58:46 <ais523> you simply can't change the flag fast enough to beat a 2-cycle clear
22:59:09 <ais523> and even with two processes, if you get the opponent's cycle count wrong in any way at all, you commit suicide
22:59:10 <Sgeo> What game is this?
22:59:21 <ais523> we're discussing what impact multithreading would have on BF Joust
22:59:51 <ais523> so we're talking about a hypothetical version of BF Joust with corewars-style threading
23:02:16 <CakeProphet> yeah, I don't know bfjoust strategies very well, but I figured a 2-cycle clear would beat any kind of multi-tasking jouster.
23:03:47 <ais523> a 2-cycle clear is one of the most basic things you can do
23:04:29 <ais523> all competent programs beat it (or deliberately sacrifice the win on it to go against other things), but it tends to get a few wins on certain lengths
23:04:55 <ais523> !bfjoust simple_two_cycle_clear (>)*8(>[-])*21
23:05:02 <EgoBot> Score for ais523_simple_two_cycle_clear: 19.5
23:05:24 <ais523> and, umm, it didn't even come last
23:06:15 <ais523> hmm, I wonder why it beats anticipation?
23:06:34 <ais523> oh, perhaps the lack of antishudder
23:06:37 <ais523> let me run that on the simulator
23:08:17 <ais523> not on egojsout, though, it's too slow in parsing
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23:24:12 <ais523> hmm, I wrote some time handling code recently with a Y2038 bug
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23:31:00 <ais523> my defence is that it was in code that had one already
23:31:24 <ais523> and the code's output is seconds-since-the-epoch as a decimal number encoded in ASCII, so at least the format won't need changing
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