00:20:15 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:40:25 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:40:33 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:42:05 apparently there are functions in the C library that have locale-specific behavior except when in the "C" locale 00:42:09 * coppro baffles 00:43:16 -!- elliott has joined. 00:51:50 coppro: example? 00:52:17 newsham: I'm just quoting the standard 00:52:28 is that for backwards compat? 00:52:46 Those functions that 00:52:46 have locale-specific aspects only when not in the "C" locale are noted below. 00:52:59 how can you have locale-specific aspects only when not in the "C" locale 00:53:15 by definition, something that is only present in the "C" locale is locale-specific 00:59:58 hi 01:00:02 what is argument 01:00:38 an object that is passed to a function when invoking it 01:01:21 *a value that 01:02:30 14:08:37: romance in iwc? truly the world is coming to an end 01:02:37 oerjan: i sure hope this is the cause of the next fireball 01:03:10 elliott: it is looking disturbingly like dmm is wrapping up loose threads 01:03:27 :D 01:03:38 * elliott tries to find the dinosaur comics guest strip it reminded him of 01:04:55 http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=1773 01:04:55 this one 01:05:46 oerjan: erm, if he's trying to end on the calvin and hobbes point it would be a bit premature 01:05:51 unless it'll take seven hundred pages to wrap up all the adventures 01:06:27 oerjan: btw have you tried the cunning tactic if he's planning to end the comic? :D 01:06:32 oerjan: btw have you tried the cunning tactic of asking if he's planning to end the comic? :D 01:06:49 seven hundred? i think you're off a bit 01:07:01 19:02:31: Okay, true. 01:07:02 19:02:47: That alone testifies that they shouldn't have freaking made LotR into a film series. 01:07:02 19:02:58: It's fundamentally incompatible. 01:07:02 19:08:30: pikhq_, by which you mean it was significantly better than the books 01:07:02 ++ 01:07:13 oerjan: er oh wait, that was the homestuck count when i compared them :) 01:07:17 how long was calvin and hobbes? 01:07:26 elliott: i have never dared to communicate with dmm 01:07:41 oerjan: is it because he's ~famous~ 01:07:57 19:09:21: pikhq_, the films were pretty good. 01:07:57 agree, and i couldn't get past the first hundred pages of Fellowship 01:08:23 there was no talking lion 01:08:25 3160 01:08:57 oerjan: ah. then start worrying. 01:09:04 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaa 01:09:07 although that's still almost a hundred pages of wrap-up :D 01:09:10 0x41414141 01:09:14 maybe Supers will return 01:09:27 i sure do know a lot about a comic I've never managed to archive binge 01:09:54 speaking of archive binge, i need to catch up on smbc 01:10:26 oerjan: i don't know how he'll wrap up the hugely intertwined tangle of plot threads that is the Nigerian Finance Minister theme 01:10:41 maybe that's what the remaining pages are 01:11:20 * oerjan suddenly wonders if he actually has read all of lotr, or is just imagining doing so 01:11:45 oerjan: knowing your attention span i doubt it :D 01:11:53 it's not implausible that i gave up somewhere in fellowship too 01:12:18 elliott: however i absorbed almost anything readable at that age 01:13:02 did you read the part where caspian was on the dawn treader? 01:13:06 oerjan: oh sweet, im gonna paste this big @ design document 01:13:15 (...i should write one) 01:13:16 so it's not implausible that i may actually have read it through 01:13:24 -!- elliott has left ("Leaving"). 01:13:29 -!- elliott has joined. 01:13:32 newsham: :D 01:13:34 newsham: funny guy, although i _definitely_ have read all the narnia books 01:13:40 i read the narnia books when i was a lil one, they were shit 01:13:44 i think i thought this because they are shit 01:14:11 maybe if i realised they were christian propaganda i would have realised WHY they were shit 01:14:14 but i just thought he was a bad writer 01:14:46 elliott: heck i even read some of his _openly_ christian fiction 01:15:02 (the great divorce) 01:15:08 i don't think he was a very clever writer 01:15:10 all this in norwegian translation, btw 01:15:27 -!- elliott has left ("Leaving"). 01:15:33 -!- elliott has joined. 01:15:36 how does clos etab work 01:15:40 you're such a eustice 01:15:56 totes 01:16:21 If Aslan represented the immaterial Deity in the same way in which Giant Despair [a character in The Pilgrim's Progress] represents despair, he would be an allegorical figure. In reality however he is an invention giving an imaginary answer to the question, 'What might Christ become like, if there really were a world like Narnia and He chose to be incarnate and die and rise again in that world as He actually has done in ours?' This is not allegor 01:16:22 y at all. (Martindale & Root 1990) 01:16:26 cs lewis doesnt know what allegory means 01:16:34 also he thinks jesus is lit. a lion i guess 01:17:02 he was just writing books for kids 01:17:10 i think aslan turned into jesus at the end of the last battle 01:17:11 (while trying to keep em brainwashed appropriately) 01:17:32 he said he's known by other names in other worlds 01:18:10 like many movies and books, cs lewis's naria books made ugly pepole bad and bad people ugly and looked down on different people 01:18:13 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 01:18:17 pretty lame for a "christian" book 01:19:35 newsham: to be fair, it also lacked a lot of stoning 01:19:52 i'm pretty sure tumnus was constantly stoned 01:19:57 the "this isn't _true_ Christianity because it's not nice enough" kind of falls down if you take all the parts together 01:20:53 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 01:21:18 * oerjan snickers at "But it's so hard for me to meet new people!" 01:21:22 theyre making a sequel to narnia arent they 01:21:33 I think that Lewis is *capable* of writing good fiction. 01:21:33 movie wise? 01:21:45 newsham: yeah 01:21:46 Even within the framework of his "ZOMG MUST BE 120% CHRISTIAN" thing. 01:21:50 :( 01:21:54 He just seems to have let that framework take over. 01:22:14 didn't tolkein reconvert him by basically saying "hey christianity is p. cool dude" 01:22:21 Sounds about right. 01:22:36 and lewis was like "oh ok im christian now" 01:22:49 was lewis his precious? 01:22:52 Films directed by Andrew Adamson 01:22:53 Shrek (2001) · Shrek 2 (2004) · The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe (2005) · The Chronicles of Narnia: Prince Caspian (2008) 01:22:56 good film career 01:23:00 lmao 01:23:06 He claims that it was some long, arduous journey, but, well... 01:23:53 To be perfectly honest, most Westerners who claim to have "struggled" with their faith are either saying "I keep thinking it's bullshit, but get pulled back in", or are bullshitting you. 01:24:05 http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2273 01:24:21 Depending on whether they mean "struggle" as in "questioned" or "suffered personal injury because of". 01:24:35 pikhq: or ".. but boy do I love sleeping with my wife's friends..." 01:25:10 newsham: Or variations thereof. 01:25:21 "Boy do I love cock" seems to be common as well. 01:25:35 yes 01:25:40 and "but the alcohol made me do it" 01:26:03 Which works better as an excuse with some denominations than others. 01:26:14 this sure is some productive debate 01:26:24 the important thing is if you check yourself into rehab and tell everyone that god forgives you 01:26:26 lets tell /r/circlejerk about it 01:26:41 I mean, you've got churches that claim the religion mandates you never drink, and churches that literally make beer and wine. 01:27:43 oh my god shut up 01:32:22 newsham: it would have been more fitting to the topic to link to the one where he uses bible stuff to justify sodomy and pedophilia... 01:33:47 -!- Slereah has quit. 01:35:20 do unto others as you woul dhave them do to you? 01:35:44 http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2281#comic 01:36:12 the votey comic is the more interesting one 01:39:24 hey i think my previous thoughts about the halting problem were wrong, cool 01:40:06 hmm 01:40:12 oh hey quint 01:40:19 are you gonna write that score system for jous 01:40:19 r 01:40:41 it's provably uncomputable. proof: find a point in time after which sgeo will never blog into this channel... 01:41:07 what, the score system? :D 01:41:32 the score system will happen when i learn that stupid fortran-based algebra system 01:41:46 it has the WORST NAMED FUNCTIONS MANKIND HAS EVER INVENTED 01:41:55 with THE MOST CONFUSING PARAMETER LISTS 01:42:18 quintopia: the haskell binding has a nice interface 01:42:19 but hu 01:42:20 uh 01:42:25 lapack functinos are named systematically 01:42:33 so you don't have to look them up if you know the base operation names :) 01:42:36 overloading 01:42:41 "In 2010, 25 LaRouche supporters protesting a new production of Richard Wagner's Der Ring des Nibelungen presented by the Los Angeles Opera carried signs that said, ""Wagner: Loved by Nazis, Rejected by Humans" and "L.A. County: $14 Million to promote Nazi Wagner, Layoffs for Music Teachers"." 01:43:14 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:43:31 explain the naming system to me then 01:43:59 jfreadthedocumentation, anyway i was only asking so that i can take advantage of you not doing it by writing my own 01:44:37 Subroutines in LAPACK have a characteristic naming convention which makes the identifiers short but rather obscure. This was necessary as the first Fortran standards only supported identifiers up to six characters long, so the names had to be shortened to fit into this limit. 01:44:37 A LAPACK subroutine name is in the form pmmaaa, where: 01:44:37 p is a one-letter code denoting the type of numerical constants used. S, D stand for real floating point arithmetic respectively in single and double precision, while C and Z stand for complex arithmetic with respectively single and double precision. The newer version LAPACK95 use generic subroutines in order to overcome the need to explicitly specify the data type. 01:44:38 mm is a two-letter code denoting the kind of matrix expected by the algorithm. The codes for the different kind of matrices are reported below; the actual data are stored in a different format depending on the specific kind; e.g., when the code DI is given, the subroutine expects a vector of length n containing the elements on the diagonal, while when the code GE is given, the subroutine expects an n×n array containing the entries of the matrix. 01:44:45 aaa is a one- to three-letter code describing the actual algorithm implemented in the subroutine, e.g. SV denotes a subroutine to solve linear system, while R denotes a rank-1 update. 01:44:46 i've already done all the parts that don't involving compiling in lapack. i've even downloaded the libraries. i could probably finish it tomorrow with some focus. 01:44:48 For example, the subroutine to solve a linear system with a general (non-structured) matrix using real double-precision arithmetic is called DGESV. 01:44:51 quintopia 01:45:28 does it plug in to the existing report.c 01:45:35 and yeah but i was going to do it in haskell which means i could be finished in the same time :P 01:45:40 no, i had to modify report.c also 01:45:43 also "downloaded the libraries"? what, an apt-get line? 01:45:51 quintopia: um it should not require adding new files 01:45:58 if you are baking it into chainlance that is wrong 01:46:16 no, i had to modify both 01:46:25 but the scoring code is going in report.c 01:46:39 but if you want to do it and won't fuck it up, have at it. 01:46:57 i might fuck it up :) 01:47:04 quintopia: chainlance should require _no_ modifications 01:47:06 it reports only the raw score 01:47:24 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:47:32 it required modification, because i needed more than the raw score 01:47:57 um what else do you need 01:48:08 the number of wins of each program 01:48:39 can't you work that out from the reported raw score 01:49:37 anyway, i have some bf joust stuff i am already working on, so i will probably do the scoring system sometime too 01:50:08 no 01:50:14 the raw score is Ascore-Bscore 01:50:30 so 9-8 looks the same as 10-9 looks the same as 11-10 01:50:49 fair enough 01:50:51 it was a trivial modification tho 01:50:57 i like the phrasing in terms of betting, btw 01:51:30 if you want the modified lance and build your own report on top of it, i can send you that now 01:52:50 nah, it's ok, one of my other projects is lance 01:52:54 quintopia: also, plz [asterisk]chainlance 01:53:02 it's bad enough fizzie plagiarising my name without you abbreviating it to my name :) 01:53:18 i couldn't remember which lance it was i modified. *lance then 01:55:35 14:53:59: variable: emacs v. vi is *very* well-trodden 01:55:36 14:54:03: variable: vile vs. nedit would be fun 01:55:40 still want this flamewar, btw 01:56:22 i have an idea 01:56:36 quintopia: which idea 01:56:41 how about a language where the same word is used to mean both a word and the opposite word 01:56:50 it shall be called SARCLANG 01:57:06 thats called english 01:57:34 english gives you the option to be explicitly not sarcastic 01:57:42 in SARCLANG, you are always left guessing 01:58:27 15:17:42: i've got a great settlement in a hanging cliff, on a remote island 01:58:31 quintopia: it does? 01:59:44 yes. in english if you preface a statement with figuratively, like THAT WILL FIGURATIVELY CATCH ON FIRE IF YOU DO THAT! then everyone knows you are being serious and not sarcastic. 02:00:13 they do? 02:00:17 15:25:52: The foundations of mathematics has a strange dogma that ... distilling the smallest possible set of elegant core axioms is both possible and profitable. From there, offering this set of axioms leaves the dirty business of making workable theories to blue-collar workaday mathematicians. 02:00:19 they do now] 02:00:26 i like this 02:01:48 i've started reading "Everything Is Obvious *Once You Know The Answer" and it is pretty awesome so far. 02:10:39 15:25:52: The foundations of mathematics has a strange dogma that ... distilling the smallest possible set of elegant core axioms is both possible and profitable. From there, offering this set of axioms leaves the dirty business of making workable theories to blue-collar workaday mathematicians. 02:12:36 quintopia: laugh 02:13:37 HAHAHAHAHA 02:13:44 that'll be six dollars 02:14:47 this confused me at first because I interpreted "laugh" as an action of elliott's rather than a command 02:15:57 I should probably stop talking in such a way that "laugh" would indeed be an action like that; I might get confused less 02:16:08 (I will never do this) 02:17:10 :) 02:17:13 monqy: did you laugh 02:17:27 monqy: because you have to laugh at its absurdity, so i can make you cry 02:17:53 but I don't want to cry 02:18:08 monqy: but did you laugh 02:18:19 what's a blue-collar workaday mathematician anyway 02:18:40 I am horribly out of jive with math culture 02:18:53 should get back in jive 02:19:08 monqy: ok here's what i modified that from 02:19:16 15:25:20: "Programming language design has a strange dogma that ... distilling the smallest possible set of elegant core axioms is both possible and profitable. From there, offering this set of axioms leaves the dirty business of making workable software to blue-collar workaday programmers." 02:19:20 monqy: time to cry 02:19:25 (this was from a serious blog post) 02:19:32 I'm crying 02:20:32 why would anyone write that. why would anyone think that. 02:20:55 monqy: perl user 02:21:50 so i have the new dark google top bar thing 02:21:52 i dont like it :( 02:21:53 programming languages suck because they're too elegant. perl forever. 02:22:11 monqy: http://www.modernperlbooks.com/mt/2011/01/minimalism.html enjoy 02:22:38 this is why intercal is BEST LANGUAGE 02:22:44 -!- pikhq has joined. 02:23:22 oh wow what the google design just changed 02:23:27 but not when i search with the address bar 02:23:44 it eschews elegance, focusing instead on making things easy for the programmer. for instance, converting numbers to roman numerals or words takes effort on the programmer's part. they shouldn't have to do that. 02:25:14 http://i.imgur.com/SsaMu.png 02:25:18 what happened to be googles 02:25:22 my googls 02:25:25 ha;l 02:25:25 p 02:25:44 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 02:26:00 penguinofthegods? wtf? 02:26:07 thats my email 02:26:17 im a penguin deal with it 02:26:29 i wonder if there are any penguin furries (yes) 02:26:44 http://www.wdyl.com/#esoteric+programming+languages the one true google 02:27:02 what the fuck is that 02:27:07 the one true search engine 02:27:12 but its not a search engine 02:27:17 "See pictures of sex" --wdyl.com 02:27:27 "Alert me about sex" im such a child 02:27:29 "Find patents about sex" 02:27:32 "Explore sex in 3D" 02:27:36 "Measure popularity of sex on the web 02:27:36 " 02:27:41 "Organize a debate about sex" 02:27:43 "Start a fucking blog" 02:27:45 "Find sex nearby" 02:27:48 "king dedede rule 34 exists...don't ask me how i know" 02:27:52 "Call someone about sex" 02:27:56 "Plan your sex events" 02:28:00 "Search sex, on the move" 02:28:03 "Scour the earth for sex" 02:28:03 "Plan your fucking events" 02:28:06 "Access sex stuff on the web, faster" 02:28:58 Find wizards... nearby 02:29:01 Make a photo album about wizards... 02:29:07 Measure popularity of wizards... on the web 02:29:56 i have fifty-eight backlogged updates 02:30:14 * elliott applies 02:30:30 quintopia: was that quote just totally ooc btw 02:31:14 elliott: from a forum thread where someone was asking whether penguin furries exist 02:31:26 link 02:31:32 why do furries exist 02:31:32 why do furries exist ... i can't help but feel that furries are merely a sign of things to come in the next hundred years of history ... 02:31:43 for fucks sake why is something like this necessary furry fandom? more like cult of furrism, some wacked out 21st century meta religion with its own fucking intricate series of SUBSECTS 02:31:43 just search for penguin furries on google. you'll find it. 02:31:48 this article i s stupid 02:32:07 [[ 02:32:09 somewhere between final fantasy, dragon ball z, and quake three, the internet stopped being a place where everyone regarded each other as elites and instead resulting in a bunch of poorly misguided rules about "proper posting etiquette" 02:32:09 (to this very day i have yet to figure out what this phrase is supposed to mean beyond "be a faggot") 02:32:10 ]] 02:32:36 http://hell.oddwebsite.com/ well this is the worst webpage i hae ever visited 02:34:17 wow what is this 02:35:08 a bunch of people who have evidently mistaken pretending to be stupid with being stupid 02:35:12 also seen on irc 02:35:52 quintopia: lol at the first post in that penguinfurries thread 02:35:53 "I was just thinking about what they would feel like just now." 02:38:08 nice thread 02:38:24 -!- iamcal has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 02:38:41 i hate the internet 02:38:42 and love it 02:38:49 im not sure which is stronger 02:39:16 it's a love-hate relationship 02:39:18 oh god its upgrading the kernel 02:39:22 monqy: why do iever upgrade my software 02:39:53 sometimes I upgrade my software and it looks ugly or breaks 02:40:18 uglier, that is 02:40:33 maybe ill just leave it the same version forever 02:40:35 until it breaks 02:40:41 and then install the new version and cry for a week 02:40:43 and then never upgrade it 02:40:43 repeat 02:43:21 Meet the Shen Project - the type-safe heir of Lisp (Qi) that has ambitious aims - from embedded to the Web - "a universal Assembly" (lambdassociates.org) 02:43:25 oh god dammit not the qi guy again 02:43:40 herp derp let me totally misuse "bipolar" to try and explain programmers being in bored in university 02:43:43 im a fucking genius look at me 02:43:56 fuck fuck shitty shit fuck fuck 02:44:01 heir of lisp? 02:44:14 yeah obviously qi is lisp 02:44:18 thats the reddit headliner though 02:44:36 so is it any good 02:44:50 qi itself? sure. 02:44:55 but the author is an idiot. 02:45:19 "For that reason I subtitled my talk Back to the Future (after Zemecki's classic time travel film)" 02:45:21 Zemecki's 02:45:34 hes like fucking kubrick 02:46:24 "This is not an OSI license, but a free$ license designed to hold the project together around a standard that is well documented and has 20 years R&D behind it." 02:46:33 apparently Qi is an award-winning functional programming language based on 20 years R&D that offers the advantages of pattern matching, l calculus consistency, optional lazy evaluation and static type checking. 02:46:39 theory: licensing is the easiest place to find if a software developer is a fucking egoist 02:46:55 elliott: I concur. 02:46:55 if he's selling it while talking about his ONE-MAN stunning achievement, he's a massive egoist 02:46:59 20 years r&d 20 years r&d 02:47:06 if he's avoiding using an open source license to protect his hard work, he's an egoist 02:47:16 sorry [asterisk]eir 02:47:23 if he's GPLing it and explicitly states this is to stop eir work being abused by corporations 02:47:26 e's an egoist, and delusional 02:47:29 [asterisk]e's 02:47:35 But at least not also a complete ass. 02:48:10 "I want to protect this from corporations, so I'm going to make it worse for everyone", however, is. 02:48:15 sometimes i worry that my complete lack of care with what someone does with my code would break down the moment someone "exploits" it and i'm just doing it to seem humble to myself 02:48:41 Shen has a great contribution to make in safety critical areas such as 02:48:41 space exploration, 02:48:41 nuclear plant maintenance 02:48:41 medicine 02:48:41 high integrity operating systems 02:49:25 I wonder if NASA uses formal-logic based software verification techniques? 02:49:41 naaaaaaaaaaah 02:49:55 -!- copumpkin has joined. 02:49:59 I have this horrible feeling that they instead rely on manuals of restrictive coding styles ... but can that really be true? NASA's code _works_ almost all the time, on the first actual run 02:50:01 -!- copumpkin has quit (Changing host). 02:50:02 -!- copumpkin has joined. 02:50:11 And style guides are _not_ a sufficient methodology to do this 02:50:17 [asterisk]achieve 02:50:23 monqy: Well, it's not like that's totally uncommon 02:50:28 monqy: Intel use a formally verified FPU unit 02:51:03 Probably because they don't want to repeat fdiv. 02:51:09 Yes, it started after that IIRC 02:51:14 A good decision 02:51:24 I really want to know how Intel processors are _designed_ 02:51:26 Most certainly. 02:51:28 Obviously it's not all raw chip design programs 02:51:38 Because that would be INSANELY huge 02:51:43 (The high-level layout of components is obviously that, though) 02:51:52 Like -- how do they specify the instruction->microcode transformations? 02:51:59 How do they "compile" this into the translator unit? 02:52:05 How do they write the microcode interpreter? 02:52:13 How do they "compile" this into chip design? 02:52:16 I really want to know. 02:52:20 It would be very fascinating. 02:52:56 Apparently Google's recent layout change is because of a new service. 02:52:58 "Google+". 02:53:06 google+ what 02:53:09 They're wanting to get into social networking stuff. 02:53:11 no thats just their social networking thing 02:53:14 why would that make them change the deign 02:53:15 design 02:53:17 -!- iamcal has joined. 02:53:18 btw i like the new design 02:53:23 i just didn't like the top bar with the old page 02:53:27 which i still get when searching w/ url bar for some reason 02:53:30 elliott: So it all integrates. 02:53:43 ugh what its gone back 02:53:49 oh hey 02:53:51 google.com has it 02:54:00 it is a nice redesign though? 02:54:01 it has more whitespace 02:54:10 although i don't like the url being above the summary 02:54:17 it sort of separated results before 02:54:31 pikhq: oh nice, they've unified all the serach 02:54:33 like patents 02:54:41 http://www.allgraphics123.com/ag/01/13042/13042.jpg 02:55:14 someone made this 02:55:47 i need a "HUG" 02:55:50 "HUG" "Me" 02:56:08 hey i have chrome twelve now 02:57:02 monqy: http://zwani.com/ oh good site 02:57:10 thanks for making "HUG" "Me" zwani 02:57:22 wow all of this 02:57:26 I wonder if NASA uses formal-logic based software verification techniques? <-- istr from somewhere (maybe ltu?) that they're based on _exceedingly_ thorough code review 02:57:51 oerjan: i guess it's just using humanpower but... 02:57:58 its hard to believe that it actually works as well as it does 02:58:32 "Also, while we're talking about Ambient Oriented Programming, what about Metaphor-Oriented Programming? See the brilliant Homespring language by Jeff Binder and Joe Neeman: http://xeny.net/H_Ot_M_Ef_S_P_R_Ib_N_G" 02:58:33 ltu: good 02:58:45 "I thought that this comment was generated by an intelligent SPAM generator. Maybe its passing the Turing test now?" 02:58:45 :( 02:58:59 "I was calling the post that parented your reply SPAM, according to my first-read filter. Actually, reading it again, I think you are correct, its not SPAM, just that the thoughts are enthusiastic but not very well organized yet. The parent poster could work on organizing and polishing their thoughts, it would be easier for us to understand what is going on and provide appropriate feedback." 02:59:01 oerjan: lol wow 02:59:04 they are taking homespring seriously 02:59:08 im very happy 02:59:13 joke 02:59:13 Homespring is a joke language. I think it's rather funny. 02:59:13 By tumble at Fri, 2011-03-11 05:20 | login or register to post comments 02:59:13 I didn't get it. I apologize 02:59:14 I didn't get it. I apologize for jumping to conclusions. 02:59:16 By Sean McDirmid at Fri, 2011-03-11 09:05 | login or register to post comments 02:59:23 im clapping 02:59:52 http://esolangs.org/wiki/PoGo 02:59:54 oh my god 02:59:59 why are you still making languages 03:00:01 -!- variable has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:00:08 [ and ] become a complicated and probably very arbitary mess of po's and go's and some other things 03:00:11 thats not a fucking isomorphism 03:00:14 is that by tehz oh madk 03:00:42 -!- variable has joined. 03:00:45 Make the coder laugh 03:00:45 ow an go 03:00:47 i dont get it 03:01:05 a wang. oh 03:01:20 oh. 03:01:34 i dunno 03:01:37 that was just a silly joke 03:01:39 if its actually that 03:01:40 then ill cry 03:01:49 im already crying 03:01:51 i like how all of his langauges are brainfuck but different???? 03:02:05 I also like how he doesn't understand isomorphism??????? 03:02:26 "In fact, I believe that it is precisely because Qi was largely delivered outside the university system that it exists at all." 03:02:31 why are you criticising universities in your proposal 03:02:34 its not good.................................................... 03:02:45 oh he 03:02:47 wants donations 03:02:47 thats not a fucking isomorphism <-- IS TOO 03:02:48 no....... 03:02:55 standing donation to Lambda AssociatesUp to £10.00 GBP per month 03:02:57 lol 03:02:57 wow 03:02:59 a standing donation 03:03:05 Enter the maximum amount you want to pay each month 03:03:06 £ GBP 03:03:06 You will pay at least £1.00GBP 03:03:06 no 03:03:07 i wont 03:03:17 -1 03:03:17 People who pledge a standing amount are automatically entitled to a monthly newsletter which previews the forthcoming work we are doing. You will have your name placed on our list of donors unless you indicate you would prefer to remain anonymous (write here if you wish this). If you are interested in making a substantial contribution with a view to advertising on Lambda Associates then write to us and we will take it from there. 03:03:20 oh my god monqy do you have money 03:03:25 well actually it's not, but only because you stupid esolangers insist on forgetting that isomorphisms are invertible... 03:03:26 its only like one letter away from monqy 03:03:37 oerjan: got a nicer term? :P 03:03:41 i only have american money 03:03:49 monqy: its ok paypal converts 03:03:51 monqy: you gotta do this 03:04:13 elliott: embedding, maybe 03:04:31 http://sonantlive.bitsnbites.eu/tool/ oh fun times 03:04:35 oerjan: that's not very evocative 03:04:38 s/not very/not very/ 03:05:49 monqy: http://www.allgraphics123.com/ 03:06:19 oh james hague did banksimple??? 03:06:21 it doesn't want to load but I trust it's quality 03:06:23 ok loaded 03:06:47 good categories, good graphics123 03:06:54 i dont see hague on on banksimples page 03:06:56 maybe is lies 03:07:25 elliott: hm the tcs term would be "reduction", me thinks 03:07:28 "Crap, you're more than right, my bad. It was only linked by al3x, CTO of BankSimple." 03:07:28 lol 03:07:37 oerjan: that would work 03:07:59 like reduction to SAT 03:08:00 monqy: hey do you read Arcane Sentiment, if so, are you actually literally me 03:08:17 I think I used to know what that was 03:08:22 like for an hour 03:08:27 I should try again 03:08:32 http://arcanesentiment.blogspot.com/ 03:08:52 it is full of correct opinions and good words 03:08:54 oh right I read a few of the posts once 03:09:04 I remember it being pretty correct and good 03:09:15 doesn't look too updated since then though 03:09:25 yeah it has not updated in a few months? :( 03:09:28 the archives are all good though 03:09:44 monqy: what about Programming in the 21st Century 03:09:49 also good blog 03:09:51 never even heard of that one 03:09:59 will look 03:10:06 http://prog21.dadgum.com/ 03:10:41 it's got a lot of comparison to retro days + functional programming things + a lot of performance-focused mindset putdown 03:21:07 -!- jcp|1 has joined. 03:22:13 -!- jcp|other has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 03:22:22 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:23:50 -!- jcp has joined. 03:25:41 -!- jcp|1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:26:35 -!- jcp|other has joined. 03:28:09 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 03:28:28 -!- jcp has joined. 03:36:25 elliott: pogo not a joke language? have you read the spec and examples? 03:36:40 I haven't either but I just saw a few of them and they sound like a really bad joke 03:36:46 monqy: it's certainly a joke but we have a specific definition of joke language :) 03:37:03 TURKEY BOMB is a joke language, a language that is just terrible is not 03:37:13 mmm TURKEY BOMB 03:37:24 I should look up the definition sometime 03:37:27 I probably forgot it 03:37:28 Ook is also arguably a joke language, but this actually adds something 03:37:31 even though what it adds is rubbish 03:37:40 monqy: http://catseye.tc/gallery/languages/turkeyb/ 03:37:44 it's amazing, and maybe even implementable and TC :P 03:37:56 yeah I remember reading it once or twice 03:37:57 good stuff 03:38:17 `quote it's all coming together 03:38:21 No output. 03:38:22 `quote it's all coming 03:38:24 No output. 03:38:25 `quote it's all becoming 03:38:26 No output. 03:38:29 `quote AMICED 03:38:30 106) and an AMICED literal would presumably /add/ info to the source whatever info gets added, that's the value that the AMICED doesn't contain it's all falling into place 03:38:31 monqy: caret 03:39:45 (scarf is ais) 03:40:12 looking more carefully, pogo looks like half boring and half bad joke 03:40:23 like really bad joke 03:40:31 he - push the masculinity of the current memory cell onto the memory stack (Chuck Norris may cause stack overflow) 03:41:05 oh 03:41:08 fuck that noise 03:41:11 also fuck chuck norris 03:41:43 the second-to-last block of commands in the spec reminds me of HQ9+ 03:42:46 it even has the H and 9, and a command to make Q trivial 03:42:50 oerjan: i have started to apply the "reduction" terminology 03:43:02 wow 03:43:17 I should make an "isomorphism" with hq9+ 03:43:25 oerjan: wow what? 03:43:29 oerjan: that i am being good? :D 03:43:31 oh a reduction 03:43:58 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/w/index.php?title=Brainfuck&curid=961&diff=23474&oldid=23331 03:44:02 monqy: reading now out of date 03:44:04 should i make a new one 03:45:10 reading of pogo spec and exampels try not to cry 03:45:17 monqy: impossible 03:45:29 Make the coder laugh 03:45:29 id need to be a cybord withougt emotions and then i might spontaenously devleop them to cry 03:45:35 should i laugh after reading it 03:45:36 ow an go 03:45:36 Alternatively, 03:45:37 po op 03:45:37 like a really hollow laugh 03:45:42 signifying like 03:45:44 my internal death 03:45:59 going to look up what poop does 03:46:05 poops 03:46:12 po - add current position in code to the top of the po stack 03:46:12 op - pop from the memory stack and place the value in the current memory cell 03:46:30 what happens when you pop from an empty stack 03:46:36 poop 03:46:37 this spec sucks 03:46:59 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/w/index.php?title=User:TehZ&curid=3382&diff=23473&oldid=23441 03:47:00 whitewashing 03:47:47 good talk page 03:47:59 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/w/index.php?title=Deadfish&curid=2038&diff=23467&oldid=23457 03:48:03 oerjan: maybe i should move it to L 03:48:14 monqy: what, [[User talk:TehZ]]? 03:48:19 yes 03:50:21 maharba is a good person, some of their languages aren't very interesting but they have good opinions 03:50:25 opinions hour with elliott 03:52:22 elliott: wat 03:52:36 oerjan: what 03:52:56 they make fun of the right things and know good things to know that a lot of bad people on the wiki don't 03:53:00 you mean The language defined by the Revised Revised Revised Revised Revised Report on the Algorithmic Language Scheme? 03:53:05 oh 03:53:06 yeah 03:53:39 I wonder how you expand Revised^-1 Report on the Kernel Programming Language 03:54:01 elliott: wait, that exists? 03:54:17 ftp://ftp.cs.wpi.edu/pub/techreports/pdf/05-07.pdf 03:54:19 yes 03:54:28 nice things with interesting opinions 03:54:31 uh let me link to the site/ltu 03:54:33 more digestible 03:54:38 http://web.cs.wpi.edu/~jshutt/kernel.html 03:55:07 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4093 03:55:07 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/1680 03:55:31 ($define! $if 03:55:32 ($vau (x y z) env 03:55:32 ($cond ((eval x env) (eval y env)) 03:55:32 (#t (eval z env))))) 03:55:33 also a good example 03:55:40 ($define! $lambda 03:55:40 ($vau (ptree . body) static-env 03:55:40 (wrap (eval (list* $vau ptree #ignore body) 03:55:40 static-env)))) 03:55:45 * elliott realises the chances of oerjan reading any of these is 0 03:55:49 well maybe the webpage :D 03:56:20 ...maybe you know me too well. 03:56:45 http://web.cs.wpi.edu/~jshutt/kernel.html 03:56:48 see that's an easy short webpage 03:56:50 :D 03:56:55 already opened 03:57:17 that implementation of lambda is great though 04:03:45 mmmm 04:05:22 monqy: define mmm 04:05:23 is it joisdf 04:05:27 sorry i missed an m sorry 04:05:34 what's joisdf 04:05:55 this kernel language thing is pretty nifty 04:06:05 joisdf is the best 04:06:19 and yeah it is, i disagree with some of the principles listed in the report, but it's a good coherent philosophy 04:06:19 -!- variable has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:11:32 http://libposix.sourceforge.net/ oh lol this again 04:11:52 http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/libposix/index.php?title=Compare 04:12:07 cool, wants me to log in to view their full news 04:14:07 Will you help developing infrastructure that will power next decade Unix ? 04:15:08 a bold claim for a bold attempt to unify the implementation of the core functionality of all Unix systems 04:17:05 so did they get hello world 2 years ago and give up 04:17:23 http://wonder-tonic.com/cageyourqueue/ 04:17:26 this is a good site 04:17:46 Repo says yes. 04:17:52 http://wonder-tonic.com/cageyourqueue/ 04:17:53 this is a good site 04:17:58 still a good site 04:17:59 nobody say anything not related to it 04:19:09 My *goodness* libposix is sad. 04:19:17 whats their source like 04:19:31 Oh, it's actually reasonable source code. 04:19:35 It just implements so very little. 04:19:37 "the number of Nic Cage films on Netflix is declining" 04:19:38 im crying 04:19:42 maye i will have to buy it all 04:20:04 over sixty films wow 04:20:10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Cage#Filmography 04:20:10 I'd say it has every *trivial* libc function. 04:20:15 needs to happen 04:20:46 Its malloc returns NULL. 04:21:05 good job libposix 04:21:06 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brubaker first nicholas cage movie 04:21:18 Just so very, very sad after having been doing stuff with musl. 04:21:56 pikhq: itll be a very fast malloc 04:22:03 if you have a manual pool allocator fallback things will still work 04:22:07 and what professional programmer wouldn't 04:22:29 Eh, has the same O() as musl malloc, but musl malloc is more useful. 04:22:52 oh god http://muppetswithpeopleeyes.tumblr.com/ 04:22:56 from the person who brought you cage your queue 04:23:20 Aaaah, musl. The libc I understand. 04:23:27 muppets with people eyes is brilliant 04:23:33 too bad it's dead :'( 04:23:35 Even its freaking ld.so is reasonable. 04:23:39 http://wonder-tonic.com/books2barcodes/read.php?title=artofwar how fucking long is art of war 04:23:58 monqy: maybe they did it to all the muppets 04:25:34 elliott: http://git.etalabs.net/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=musl;a=blob;f=src/ldso/dynlink.c;h=031e1f0f22f51ecabf8cb39638f7565e6e25c947;hb=HEAD 04:25:45 muppets with people eyes also makes me think birds with arms, another brilliant innovation 04:25:59 pikhq: why are you linking me to musl code 04:26:06 it's not sad 04:26:21 elliott: Because it doesn't make me want to stab people. 04:26:26 It really doesn't. 04:26:44 monqy: http://i.imgur.com/GsLB1.jpg actual ad 04:26:45 This is the highest praise I have to offer a C library. 04:26:53 good ad 04:27:15 ads like that make me wonder what's behind them 04:27:31 money 04:27:34 sorry, monqy 04:27:35 ipods 04:27:59 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Alight this language is hilarious 04:28:05 reversed cat example is pretty much perfect 04:29:40 oh wow hes behind this game too http://wonder-tonic.com/cannibalism/ 04:29:42 which is a good game 04:29:51 I remember that game 04:30:09 good game 04:30:21 any game called "resort to cannibalism" is good 04:33:59 who the fuck writes things in 13/4 04:35:29 http://208.87.32.71/landerbanners/he/hexham.com.jpg hexham 04:37:23 why is that guy floating and why is he attacking that poor lady 04:37:59 tigers in hexham 04:38:04 good picture of a whatever that is licking its nose too 04:38:09 tiggers and hammocks 04:38:10 that's a tiger? 04:38:15 yes total tiger 04:38:18 total hexham.com.jpg 04:38:26 do tiger noses taste good 04:38:30 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:38:33 yes 04:38:37 (no) 04:45:27 -!- sebbu has joined. 04:50:52 im a tarball i space 04:51:34 -!- foocraft has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 04:51:45 -!- foocraft_ has joined. 04:51:58 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm-O3FKFI74 first zepto game 04:53:56 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSD_(video_game) oh i've reada bout this before 04:53:57 amazing 04:54:37 i love how annoying the walking is 04:54:57 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN7TLylDxqs this is amazing 04:55:12 -!- Slereah has joined. 04:55:20 wow 04:55:23 what is it even doing 04:55:35 I've heard of that game 04:55:43 trumpets 04:55:48 this is amazing watch that video i just linked monqy it's wow 04:55:59 face 04:56:29 is this guy sinking as he walks 04:58:14 trumpets 05:00:40 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDji5zhu1nc ending of that game 05:01:53 haha does it really shake the controller JESUS OH MY GOD THAT IS TERRIFYING 05:01:55 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U2LV7320zA 05:01:56 at forty seconsd 05:01:57 fUCk 05:02:59 wow what was that 05:03:44 i need this game 05:04:32 monqy: the worst thing is if you rewind a bit 05:04:37 you can see that it isn't there before they look 05:04:44 -!- Zwaarddijk has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:05:24 -!- ineiros has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:05:40 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF55WLjljMQ wow 05:05:45 is this the real soundtrack 05:05:46 cant be 05:06:24 -!- ineiros has joined. 05:06:29 http://torrentz.eu/search?f=LSD+dream+eulator 05:06:30 tempting 05:10:11 -!- Zwaarddijk has joined. 05:10:28 -!- variable has joined. 05:24:37 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 05:39:49 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:43:57 -!- _foocraft has joined. 05:47:14 -!- foocraft_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:48:02 New! People widget 05:48:02 These are the participants in this conversation. The details come from information that is already in your Contacts. 05:48:02 You do not currently share a photo with recipients. 05:48:02 Update your photo… 05:48:02 Some actions, such as collapse/expand, are now icons to the right of the subject or can be found in the More menu in the toolbar. 05:48:05 OK 05:48:07 GMAIL QHT ARE YOU DOING STOP CHANGING 05:48:14 google what is going on we need to talk 05:48:31 what did they do this time? 05:48:39 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1440&bih=761&q=help+why+is+google+changing&oq=help+why+is+google+changing&aq=f&aqi=&aql=undefined&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=1100l4107l0l27l16l0l8l0l0l732l1502l3-1.1.0.1l3 05:48:45 help it in't sovligny mr ptobvlem 05:48:53 coppro: i don't actually mind the changes its just fun to pretend i do 05:49:02 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=1440&bih=761&q=help+no+stop+go+back&oq=help+no+stop+go+back&aq=f&aqi=&aql=undefined&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=24130l25946l0l22l14l0l7l0l0l205l993l1.5.1l7 05:49:08 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=1440&bih=761&q=i+dont+like+you+any+more&oq=i+dont+like+you+any+more&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=undefined&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=3269l4940l0l24l7l0l0l0l0l401l401l4-1l1 05:49:15 it isn't doig hwat i say 05:49:53 i told google to solve all of my problems 05:49:54 and it didnt 05:50:22 http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101128134505AAgjzqU but it did find me this gem 05:50:57 If a man doesn't exist, he hasn't any problems, does it? 05:51:14 considering replacing my wiki user page with that 05:52:47 i wonder if mister braun did the suicide 05:53:04 Sorry, we couldn't find who you were looking for 05:53:04 This person may not exist, there may be a problem with the link or **gulp** their account has been suspended. 05:53:05 he invented razors 05:53:07 r.i.p. 05:53:13 rip razors 05:53:17 also, stereos, 05:53:24 uM, wHAT ELSE DO BRAUN MAKE, 05:53:35 Founder(s)Max Braun 05:53:35 rip 05:55:16 dear audacity, what kind of person is called nasca octavian paul 06:00:25 the kind of person nasca octavian paul is, obviously 06:02:10 ZynAddSubFX is a open source software synthesizer capable of making a countless number of instruments, from some common heard from expensive hardware to interesting sounds that you'll boost to an amazing universe of sounds. 06:02:10 The project was started in March 2002 by Nasca Octavian Paul. He began to write ZynAddSubFX in order to create a synthesizer which could produce beautiful sounds, while being freely available to anybody who needs it. 06:02:57 . . . from some common heard from expensive hardware to interesting sounds that you'll boost to an amazing universe of sounds. 06:03:00 what 06:04:08 you will 17:34:13 !sh df -h . 17:34:14 ​/bin/df: Warning: cannot read table of mounted file systems: No such file or directory 17:34:23 Heh :P 17:34:27 I wonder if this'll work: 17:34:29 `run df -h . 17:34:33 No output. 17:34:47 Well, anyway, there's space now X-P 17:44:21 did you delete /var, or something silly like that? 17:47:12 also, hmm, the latest big "hack" attempt was accidental, by Googlebot 17:48:24 !sh echo "test" 17:48:25 test 17:48:41 ais523, what "hack"? 17:49:09 apparently one of Groupon's subsidiaries posted their entire username/password index, without hashing or encryption, somewhere publicly indexable 17:49:18 presumably by mistake, but it's a pretty silly thing to do 17:49:35 about 300,000 entries 17:49:53 and Googlebot just went and downloaded a copy, like it's supposed to, and started serving it to everyone 17:49:59 heh 17:50:05 thx googlebot 17:50:18 ais523, Groupon? 17:50:29 I haven't heard of them either 17:50:31 why on earth wouldn't they use hash 17:50:39 but apparently they're relatively major 17:50:53 groupon is a pyramid scheme basically 17:50:58 I cant hear the word "groupon" without thinking "raging groupon" 17:50:59 I heard the brand name "Groupon" before, can't remember where, or what they do 17:51:00 they're apparently in the middle of an IPO that values them at $15 billion 17:51:01 that made a lot of money 17:51:20 and the press think it's not an implausible value 17:51:54 groupon is clever. trick unsophisticated businesses into taking a loss with the profits going to groupon. 17:52:10 although it has a fatal flaw.. bankruptcy. 17:52:13 how exactly does it work? 17:52:27 * ais523 checks wikipedia 17:52:36 I predict about a 70% chance it'll have useful info explaining 17:52:40 groupon gives businesses money up front, in exchange groupon is allowed to come up with some coupons and give them out to customers that cost the businesses money 17:53:22 and groupon gets paid for this promotion, i think based on how many customers it delivers? 17:53:27 http://www.knewton.com/blog/knewton/from-jose/2011/06/03/groupon-is-a-straight-up-ponzi-scheme/ 17:54:12 http://www.couponing101.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/gap-receipt.jpg 17:55:30 hmm, the Ponzi scheme thing seems to refer to people investing in Groupon 17:55:51 it seems beneficial for Groupon's customers (the companies) and Groupon's users, too 17:56:17 It's not beneficial for the customers 17:56:21 it sounds like groupon customers arent so happy, in general. 17:56:32 because they give product away at a loss 17:56:34 they get lots of business on unfavorable terms and are not translating well to repeat business 17:56:50 and because the discount is so deep and can be repeated elsewhere, this does not create loyalty 17:56:54 ah, I didn't realise the companies would be so stupid as to use lossmaking values for the discounts 17:57:04 Groupon requirs it 17:57:06 *requires 17:57:09 I assumed the coupons would let the companies' customers buy at cost or slightly more 17:57:12 requires? OK, that's silly 17:57:15 RANDOM HILARIOUS NEWS OF THE DAY: my half-Japanese friend doesn't know what catgirls are. 17:57:25 ais523: Or, well, 'negotiates' 17:57:30 ais: thats where the cash upfront comes in. 17:57:35 desperate companies take the deal 17:57:41 then take a bath 17:57:44 ais523: Strictly speaking, the typical rate is 50% discount, groupon gets hallf the money on a sale 17:57:46 seems pretty predatory to me 17:57:53 ais523: so the merchant is selling at 25% 17:57:57 yep 17:58:17 few merchants can sustainably sell at 25% 17:58:32 I thought many businesses could actually afford 75% discounts from regular prices, on many products 17:58:35 so what you need to do is form a company, form a groupon. declare bankruptcy, move to bahamas 17:58:41 depending on the business, profit margins can be really high 17:58:51 it doesn't make much sense if you have marrow margins 17:58:53 *narrow 17:58:59 newsham: do you benefit from this? 17:59:07 it seems to hurt Groupon, but I don't see how it helps you 17:59:10 High-elasticity products will have narrow margins 17:59:17 Narrow margins are fine if your throughput is huge. 17:59:19 now, actual coupon users get a bargain 17:59:19 ais: groupon gives you cash up front for your coupons 17:59:43 ah 17:59:59 ais523: Also, the margin is never all at the retail end 18:00:00 can you see how this might be a little predatory? :) 18:00:06 OK, I thought this was a sensible business model originally 18:00:10 but the more I hear about it, the stupider it seems 18:00:18 see? that's what they want investors to think 18:00:22 "oh that sounds great here's my money" 18:00:37 then just take advantage that rational actors have no influence on the market 18:00:39 and WHEEEE 18:01:02 must put a lot of stress on an industry.. all your competitors are getting cash up front for this great groupon tihng, your customers all shop next door for a few months, you take a loss, then your competitors take a loss 18:01:08 then things go back to normal? 18:01:28 for those few months your competitors all probably seem like geniuses 18:01:29 I still don't think it's a pyramid scheme, though 18:01:37 it's something else 18:01:40 a different sort of scam 18:02:07 ais523: it's a pyramid scheme in that it relies on untapped markets to get revenue in an unsustainable fashion 18:02:16 when you run out of untapped markets, it collapses 18:02:26 coppro, not a pyramid scheme. 18:02:33 yep, that's a necessary condition to be a pyramid scheme, but not a sufficient one 18:02:40 Pyramid schemes require exponential growth as well. 18:02:48 They have that 18:02:51 pyramid schemes rely on their members thinking that other people will join 18:03:06 hmm.. does a pyramid scheme require exponential growth? 18:03:08 groupon relies on the opposite 18:03:16 couldnt you have a pyramid scheme with jsut n^2 growth? seems like it would work. 18:03:26 newsham: in theory you can have a pyramid scheme that grows linearly in members and linearly in size of investment 18:03:31 just has to be super linear, right? 18:03:38 ais523, wouldn't be a pyramid scheme. 18:03:42 but most people will notice it'll quickly collapse 18:03:47 yep, not technically 18:03:52 if its just linear how would you pay off early investors? 18:04:04 Pyramid schemes require that investors profit by being paid off with new investors. 18:04:17 So they almost always have a roughly fixed growth constant. 18:04:29 newsham: investor 1 pays investor 0 $1, then investor 2 pays investor 1 $2, then investor 3 pays investor 2 $3, etc 18:04:32 everyone makes a $1 profit 18:04:38 except the last person to join 18:04:55 but most people will notice that people will be unlikely to join that after a bit 18:05:11 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:05:20 -!- jcp has joined. 18:06:44 -!- jcp|other has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:08:51 ais: the amount of money is growing n^2 in that scheme, no? 18:10:12 yep 18:10:20 it's quadratic overall 18:10:30 because two different things are growing linearly 18:10:43 but the amount of money owed at any given time is O(n) 18:11:59 -!- javawizard has joined. 18:13:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:17:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:37:19 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:17:35 elliott, there? 19:17:46 no 19:17:54 elliott, what about SSD optimisation stuff. What needs to be done to make the most out of an SSD 19:18:26 literally nothing. you can set like two lvm flags to align the metadata, but that was relevant like 19:18:27 a few years ago 19:18:31 you might want to look into getting TRIM 19:18:33 but apart from that 19:18:39 keep calm and carry on, it'll be fine 19:18:53 oh and the blog that had the lvm flag is now down, heh 19:18:55 (ted t'sos) 19:18:56 elliott, right, so those flags need not be set? 19:19:14 Vorpal: you can do it if you want like 19:19:17 half a millisecond 19:19:18 but i would not bother 19:19:29 elliott, what about wear with/without? 19:19:31 that kind of thinking will lead to you avoiding upgrading the system because it would involve a write :) 19:19:35 Vorpal: should be the same 19:19:38 I can dreg up the flag anyway 19:19:45 no harm at least 19:19:47 thanks 19:20:09 Vorpal: this may make using the debian installer harder though if you're going that route :D 19:20:23 Vorpal: ok see http://web.archive.org/web/20090224074532/http://thunk.org/tytso/blog/2009/02/20/aligning-filesystems-to-an-ssds-erase-block-size/ 19:20:31 Vorpal: (ps use jfs) 19:20:37 elliott, I went path of least resistance: reusing existing install of arch. At least to begin with 19:20:42 jfs jfs jfs :D jfs 19:20:44 elliott, finally what about TRIM? 19:20:49 elliott, what about brtfs? 19:21:03 Linux 2.6.33Feb 2010[20]Not all filesystems make use of TRIM. Ext4 and Btrfs are known to support it[21] 19:21:05 Vorpal: btrfs is oracle-controlled 19:21:06 and unstable 19:21:11 to the point of "this may eat your data" right onw 19:21:24 ah... 19:21:26 Vorpal: I guess you can go with ext4 if TRIM is vital but note 19:21:32 Vorpal: you can always reset the SSD to stock state 19:21:35 with the special intel boot cd things 19:21:38 and copy your data back 19:21:48 so it's not like not having TRIM is a permanent crippling 19:21:49 sounds like work. TRIM sounds like less work 19:22:00 um you realise that it would take many years to get to a situation where TRIM would be relevant? 19:22:08 by which point most fses will support it 19:22:15 heh 19:22:20 just saying that TRIM shouldn't matter much right now 19:23:04 Vorpal: anyway, I wouldn't worry, I mean, I use an SSD with Linux after all :P 19:23:20 No alignment, I doubt it does TRIM since my drive is Apple-only stuff 19:23:25 Everything is ridiculously fast 19:23:26 ah 19:23:43 (OS X does TRIM as of late, but I never use OS X) 19:23:54 tl;dr don't worry about it 19:26:54 elliott, btw where did I say it was Intel? 19:27:00 (it is, but why did you assume that?) 19:27:11 bbl 19:27:30 Vorpal: Because if it isn't, you're a fool, and it's pointless to bother microoptimising :P 19:27:49 (He says, using a non-Intel SSD, but then Apple's SSD suppliers are Good.) 19:27:54 (Not as good as Intel though.) 19:29:01 pvs /dev/sdb2 -o+pe_start <-- blurgh, how do you even read that 19:29:14 Vorpal: you realise that was written for the previous gen intel ssds btw? 19:29:16 I wouldn't even bother 19:29:20 elliott, yeah 19:29:31 They're meant to have magic to make it have no effect anyway... SUPPOSEDLY 19:29:31 elliott, I meant the option :P - AND + in one option 19:29:41 I thought LVM was usable and simple and perfect 19:29:49 Sorry, I misspelled gigantic headache. 19:39:52 elliott, the LVM tools changed anyway, they align on 1 MB now it seems 19:40:05 heh 19:40:19 so it should work nicely 19:40:30 elliott, now for the fs for /boot... hm 19:41:02 elliott, be glad I didn't ask you about the hell that is GPT (which my system can boot, I just decide not to) 19:41:09 what are you going for main partition? 19:41:33 ext2 for /boot is probably the safest, because grub one can't boot JFS iirc, and you don't need journalling or anything 19:42:06 elliott, well LVM, and /usr, /opt etc on that... /home and such on non-SSD anyway 19:42:16 i was asking what iflesystem 19:42:18 filesystem 19:42:21 well 19:42:26 elliott, I haven't decided yet 19:42:36 have i mentioned jfs jfs jfs, thought that was quite relevant 19:42:43 elliott, I had jfs corrupt my data before 19:42:54 uh really? i kind of doubt jfs was the culprit 19:43:00 i mean, it is IBM after all :D 19:43:25 elliott, jfs didn't work well with vmware 19:43:34 howso 19:44:01 elliott, data corruption 19:44:09 from what I heard it was blamed on jfs 19:44:33 like, inside vmware? 19:44:37 or running vmware vms on a jfs filesystem 19:44:53 if the latter, seems fishy considering vmware's general quality :P 19:45:23 elliott, having disk images on jfs paritions 19:45:31 elliott, and the bug was found and fixed iirc 19:45:32 in jfs code 19:45:38 was a few years ago 19:45:45 just saying, I'm no fan of jfs since then 19:45:47 Seems unfair to hold it against JFS then, not like ext has never had bugs :P 19:45:57 Unless you're gonna use a formally verified file system... 19:46:16 elliott, ext had bugs yes. However a key difference is that they never corrupted data for me 19:46:30 All down to chance :P 19:46:31 "Also realize that modern science has figured out that apparently most, if not all, species on earth died during the ice age. And that human life forms seem to be the only one who survived, because human DNA has been found from before the ice age, that shows there were three different kinds of humans on earth, all very closely resembling the current human population. " 19:47:12 whaaat 19:47:20 http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/27558 19:47:29 Sgeo, so.... things like horses would descend from us? 19:47:31 or what 19:47:36 that makes no fucking sense 19:47:43 also fish etc 19:47:47 and bacterias 19:48:12 Vorpal, I think the idea is that all those things were after the ice age??... I have trouble understanding this silliness myself 19:49:04 http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/i-dont-believe-in-god-jesus-or-the-bible-gods-manual-on-atheism-and-other-religions-free-from-bondage-ministry/1029147114?r=1&if=N&cm_mmc=Store-_-k352219-_-j12871747k352219-_-Primary read this for the reviews 19:49:53 mhm 19:50:40 Vorpal, this is apparently a combination of the Garden of Eve story with "God made Angels first, they were like humans, and this was before the Garden of Eden" 19:51:05 * Vorpal goes back to carefully setting up the system 19:52:12 http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/ica2j/does_a_fetus_have_brain_waves/ 19:52:21 Guessing abortion is going to come into this one. 19:53:21 http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/ic5h6/how_do_gas_planets_work_ie_jupiter_nuptune_etc/ 19:53:24 Nuptune. 19:53:41 Mighty Nuptune, Lord of the Ocuans. 19:55:05 Phantom_Hoover: are you looking for stupid posts in that particular subreddit? 19:55:16 or not necessarily stupid, but likely to attract idiots (which is not the same thing)? 19:55:38 ais523, nah, it's just that things like this end up with a certain quantity of badly-formed questions. 19:56:00 "abnormally abends" <-- what a lovely phrase (man mount, section on jfs) 19:56:20 because abend means ending abnormally according to google 19:56:35 So it abnormally ends abnormally? 19:56:51 elliott, no no... "abnormally abnormally ends" 19:57:11 Abnends. 19:57:16 heh 19:57:36 but "Abend" is german for "afternoon" 19:58:28 No, "evening" 19:58:41 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abnormal_end 20:00:17 Deewiant: err, right 20:00:22 I was even thinking "evening" as I typed that line 20:00:38 and looked up when I saw your correction and found that I'd somehow written the wrong thing anyway 20:12:26 elliott, man mkfs.ext4, check docs for -E discard/nodiscard 20:12:30 both claim to be the default 20:12:31 XD 20:13:01 heh 20:17:21 elliott, do this error look sane to you? "The resize maximum must be greater than the filesystem size." 20:17:37 elliott, it doesn't to me, because I'm trying to go for the "equal" case 20:17:42 and it gives me that 20:17:43 Yes, because it allocates some space for it, IIRC 20:17:59 elliott, well, I'm trying to go for the case of not being able to grow my /boot 20:18:09 you see, I don't plan to resize /boot 20:18:23 in fact since it is an MBR style partition, it would be a PITA 20:18:58 Just choose a size slightly bigger, FFS 20:19:28 elliott, well I did, but it still seems stupid :P 20:21:08 Showing results for ZFS TRIM. Search instead for JFS TRIM. 20:21:11 fuck you google 20:21:57 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:22:04 elliott, ^ 20:22:38 Vorpal: you complain about jfs data loss 20:22:41 Vorpal: and then go to use zfs? 20:22:42 L M A O 20:22:51 elliott, fail 20:22:55 elliott, read what I said again 20:23:06 elliott, I searched for JFS TRIM 20:23:08 oh 20:23:09 heh 20:23:12 and it gave me ZFS TRIM 20:23:30 yeah i don't think jfs supports TRIM yet 20:23:32 hmm 20:23:33 Vorpal: http://lwn.net/Articles/345020/ 20:23:36 found via http://www.mail-archive.com/jfs-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net/msg01486.html 20:24:15 elliott, so ext4 it is 20:24:27 Vorpal: um did you not read my link 20:24:42 and also did you not listen when I said TRIM is really irrelevant for you and you can always retcon it on later if it gets added 20:25:42 elliott, I did 20:25:46 check it 20:25:56 but lets see 20:26:15 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 20:26:20 These basically scan for free blocks in a filesystem, and batch them together 20:26:20 into huge DSM/TRIM commands to the drive, letting it know about them all for 20:26:20 garbage-collection and wear-leveling purposes. 20:26:29 elliott, using hdparm on jfs on top of lvm2... HRRM! 20:26:42 But seriously, don't make an FS decision based on TRIM support, it's really irrelevant considering you can 20:26:53 - wipe the drive and copy the fs back later if trim gets added 20:27:00 - it won't make any difference at all for years and years anyway 20:27:26 hm 20:28:35 well you don't even have to wipe the drive 20:28:39 you could just take advance of TRIM incrementally 20:28:44 but if you wanted it to be like "TRIM all along"... 20:30:17 hm 20:49:19 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:49:24 -!- elliott_ has joined. 21:01:08 I saw "abend" in the log ... I hope you were talking about abnormal ends of batch jobs 21:01:45 (btw: batch is only one letter away from bitch) 21:02:09 botch butch betch bytch 21:03:15 botch 21:03:18 bqodhthc 21:03:19 bqtch 21:03:22 bztch 21:03:23 lawl: "protect yourself from net fraud with paypal" ... more like expose yourself 21:03:25 bltch 21:03:26 bptch 21:03:27 bbtch 21:03:29 bttch 21:03:45 I've encountered net fraud exactly once, and it was paypal who stole my money 21:04:53 paypal creueueu 21:05:10 paypal ? 21:06:59 oijod 21:07:56 -!- foocraft_ has joined. 21:09:32 /kick elliott_ 21:09:48 im contributing intellectual 21:09:58 first i followed on with monqy, "themes on bach" 21:10:00 -!- _foocraft has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 21:10:07 then i was "paypal absurd moneyfraud extraordinphishaire" 21:10:09 phsyishying 21:11:28 so long and thanks for all the phish 21:11:31 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:15:00 elliott_: oijod! 21:15:05 olsner: joisfj 21:15:23 /kick quintopia 21:15:25 that looked like "oljud" during the first three (or so) looks 21:15:31 which is swedish for noise 21:16:33 (well, annoying noise - not-as-annoying noise has a different word) 21:18:13 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:32:52 oljad oljud 21:33:40 oerjan: what's it in norwegian then? 21:34:02 what's what? 21:36:57 what what? 21:37:10 jag menar, vad heter "oljud" på norska? 21:37:18 ulyd 21:37:28 halló hvað er að gerast 21:37:44 elliott_: ikkje nåkka 21:38:00 Ég tala ekki það tungumál hvað er þetta hjálpa þar sem er eldfjalla minn: ( 21:38:30 oerjan: (what does that mean?) 21:38:31 hmm... having trouble with the tongues and the volcanoes, are we? 21:38:39 * oerjan wonders why elliott_ suddenly is talking about volcanoes 21:39:00 Ég er íslenskur maður við erum einföld höfum eldfjöll og einnig ís en ekki mikið meira og það er það sem er á Íslandi og 21:39:37 surely you must at least have polar bears 21:39:53 can polar bears swim that far? 21:39:57 I. .. veit ekki: ( 21:40:02 hjálp 21:40:24 sure, they're on the north pole and all the way down lofoten(?), but iceland is quite far west of there 21:40:28 olsner: i vaguely recall a story about a polar bear making it to iceland a few years ago 21:40:45 Öll ísbirnir eru í Svalbard 21:41:01 øl er i alle fall øl 21:41:19 Hvað er bjór 21:42:05 hjálp hvernig að ég iceland 21:42:25 fan vet jag, men öl är öl 21:42:45 hjálp hvað eru orð og, hvernig segi ég þá 21:43:15 Einnig gæti ég haft faðmlag ég er mjög langt frá Íslandi og þess vegna er ég hræddur við dauðann (þetta er íslenska leiðin; 21:43:49 * oerjan was a bit confused as he thought bjór was some inflection of björn 21:44:08 : ( 21:44:16 oerjan: it isn't? 21:44:30 I just read that as "what is bear" 21:44:35 :D 21:44:39 nope, it's beer :P 21:44:46 what is bear 21:44:54 elliott_: what is bear!? 21:45:08 Hvað er bera 21:45:23 elliott_: given the crazy _actual_ declination of björn, it's completely plausible at a glance :P 21:45:55 Hvað er Björn 21:46:33 oerjan: am i good icelandic 21:47:00 maybe you should ask an icelander instead of a norwegian 21:47:04 As good as your English 21:47:17 *declension 21:47:25 Deewiant: :D 21:47:37 Deewiant: how do you know, you're no icelanderic. 21:47:49 or do you know all those language things. 21:47:55 icelandericishman 21:48:05 elliott_: i don't know enough icelandic to distinguish your sentences from grammatically correct ones 21:48:06 "Hvað er Björn" just seems wrong 21:48:15 Didn't really look at the rest 21:48:26 Deewiant: It's just S"What is Björn" 21:48:28 [asterisk]" 21:48:29 Supposedly 21:48:40 "björn" seems unlikely to be the icelandic form of it 21:48:41 Yes 21:48:52 it was a crosslingual boundarymunction 21:48:57 olsner: um björn _is_ icelandic for bear 21:49:01 And that's like saying "what is elliott" 21:49:09 oerjan: oh, weird 21:49:09 Which isn't quite right 21:49:20 because it's also swedish for bear 21:49:26 olsner: i was surprised too :P 21:49:32 Deewiant: It's right because that's what I typed in :P 21:49:34 To translate 21:49:37 it's not supposed to be the same words ever, icelandic should be weird! 21:49:43 elliott_: Hence "as good as your English" 21:49:44 *weird*! 21:49:45 my first guess was that it would be bjónn 21:49:50 olsner: um björn _is_ icelandic for bear 21:49:54 um with the "? 21:49:58 Deewiant: :D 21:50:06 elliott_: ZING 21:50:21 Deewiant: im hurt inside :( 21:50:21 elliott_: icelandic quotes every word you know 21:50:30 *"every" word 21:50:36 olsner: hshut up i did alt-{ space 21:50:57 alt-8 space? 21:50:59 elliott_: http://www.dailykitten.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/373-046.jpg 21:51:09 Deewiant: thank you 21:51:21 hmm, or alt-Å space? 21:51:42 or, of course, alt-altgr-7 21:52:19 olsner, what? 21:52:32 -!- Sgeo has joined. 21:52:54 Vorpal: indeed 21:53:16 do _not_ confuse with a different daily.*tten.com 21:53:17 olsner, what OS? I just tried it here, and it does nothing (as I expected) :P 21:53:33 Vorpal: not OS, keyboard layout 21:53:38 (I tried all of them) 21:53:41 olsner, okay what keyboard layout then 21:54:05 except that alt-8 was based on misreading { as ( 21:54:55 alt+shift+key-right-of-p makes an alt-{ on an american layout (which is alt-Å on a swedish keyboard) 21:55:20 and alt-altgr-7 makes alt-{ on a swedish keyboard 21:55:30 if alt and altgr combine, that is 21:56:34 olsner, ah 22:08:15 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:20:46 elliott_, that physical CPU meter was in my queue of videos, just watched it. awesome 22:23:44 Vorpal, what physical CPU meter? 22:24:28 sec 22:24:34 Phantom_Hoover, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgZEfExBBiY 22:25:08 Is that thing actually measuring the current to the chip? 22:25:54 Phantom_Hoover, I don't know 22:26:00 Phantom_Hoover, probably not 22:26:14 because adding a meter there would probably upset the chip badly :P 22:26:19 and be hard to fit too 22:26:27 its done in software 22:28:49 Aww. 22:28:54 * Phantom_Hoover → sleep 22:28:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:31:42 -!- elliott_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:42:45 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:43:08 > "abcabc"\\"a" 22:43:09 "bcabc" 22:44:34 :t (\\) 22:44:35 forall a. (Eq a) => [a] -> [a] -> [a] 22:47:58 > [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9] \\ [5,3,11] 22:47:58 [1,2,4,6,7,8,9] 23:02:08 grumble reddit is having one of those days 23:04:53 "502 Bad Gateway"? i guess that's more serious than the usual down message... 23:15:42 you must construct additional pylons.