< 1310256128 62230 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Igelle is the newest distro on this timeline < 1310256130 800928 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :get that one. < 1310256162 167610 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1310256166 187768 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is LLVM capable of compiling itself? < 1310256209 854122 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR they did self-compile clang with clang a while ago < 1310256264 494987 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the newest one that's also a root. There's Mageia and Fusion (on the Red Hat tree), Arch Hurd (on the Arch tree), Superb Mini Server and Imagineos (on the Slackware tree), Tiny SliTaz (on the SliTaz tree). < 1310256273 241775 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wait, 4m is the newest root distro. :) < 1310256285 921386 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :...? < 1310256303 487015 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, if GCC is broken for some reason, you can use LLVM. And also other way around if LLVM becomes broken for some reason. < 1310256322 346183 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Gldt.svg < 1310256495 587333 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Damn Vulnerable Linux" on the Knoppix looks like a winner. < 1310256501 885451 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Knoppix subtree < 1310256678 388453 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yowsa < 1310256691 282016 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember SLS :) < 1310256757 339974 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo looks interesting, actually. < 1310256785 732690 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have some fondness for it. < 1310256800 20886 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :any huge problems with Gentoo? < 1310256806 407358 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pffff < 1310256814 417629 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got somewhat annoyed by package breaks. < 1310256816 346343 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet again, people who have forgotten the simple lesson: < 1310256818 613545 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian is right. < 1310256820 564895 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is always right. < 1310256826 670979 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian is legion. < 1310256827 844350 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowait. < 1310256831 303588 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I switched to Debian, which broke stuff fundamentally. < 1310256844 14441 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hey, build GCC. Good luck. < 1310256862 160426 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Debian's choice to move those crt files was definitely a good one. < 1310256865 482689 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, because "build GCC" is the first thing I do after installing a distro... < 1310256868 738440 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know WHY they did it, but I know it was good. < 1310256903 271023 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I do odd things. I expect the distro not to break shit behind my back when I'm doing them. < 1310256927 715245 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They claim "multiarch". < 1310256945 892583 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why sticking crt files elsewhere helps that is beyond me. < 1310256973 498576 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seeing as the *only* compilers that are going to look in /usr/lib for those are native ones) < 1310256985 241989 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because if you're compiling targeting 32-bit on a 64-bit system, but your 64-bit libraries are in /usr/lib, then /usr/lib/crt* is wrong < 1310257009 746957 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiarch != cross-compilation ... per se :P < 1310257014 551554 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: gcc -m32 is fundamentally broken. Any further questions? < 1310257027 593350 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: use slackware. :D < 1310257051 121063 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That's a separate observation :) < 1310257059 568407 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But closely related. < 1310257078 976908 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: btw, Damn Vulnerable Linux (just looked it up) is intended to be a training tool for computer security. < 1310257088 27919 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If your 64-bit libraries are in /usr/lib, a 32-bit compiler looking in there for *anything* is wrong. < 1310257140 354782 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: see: slackware < 1310257170 513191 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Which doesn't even give you the option of running 32-bit programs on a 64-bit install. < 1310257180 525953 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem solved. :) < 1310257188 665186 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sttngfashion.tumblr.com/ <-- in case anybody hasn't heard of it < 1310257217 66920 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In conclusion, fuck everyone and everything. < 1310257236 663252 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@81-233-163-248-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1310257244 627467 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@81-233-163-248-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1310257504 999522 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so basically I think you want Windows or OSX. < 1310257550 750626 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Gentoo Prefix :P < 1310257850 634637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to punch zuu hes an idiot < 1310257852 216815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is reading logs < 1310257868 788805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:11:11: well, when i say turing complete i really mean LBA (ofcource) < 1310257869 139810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1310257869 313374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:12:54: you dont seem to understand what turing complete means then < 1310257899 715595 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: openVMS < 1310257908 744721 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :LBA? < 1310257915 540735 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310257947 975938 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: google it < 1310257969 27445 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logical Block Addressing? < 1310257970 956334 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Google?" "google it" < 1310257992 628976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1310257995 457271 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Linear bound automaton < 1310257998 665010 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1310257998 989890 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this modern society doesn't have TIME for your questions. < 1310258038 40900 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, basically like TC except with bounded memory? < 1310258055 831046 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so what did you do in the few seconds afforded to you by not answering that question? < 1310258062 718065 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:) < 1310258110 716899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know if ubuntu comes with xz by default or not < 1310258112 828023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: what question < 1310258139 711149 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"LBA?" < 1310258153 460009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didnt go insane by answering another trivial question thats what < 1310258172 299408 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :What makes a question trivial? Is this a trivial question? < 1310258194 83619 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is answering questions maddening? I thought questions were a central component of any conversation? < 1310258226 562394 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that last question really a question at all? < 1310258260 822842 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In next version of Enhanced CWEB, I plan to correct some problems with the fonts and remove the PDF stuff. And remove a few of the metamacro commands that never worked, but probably add some enhancements to the way C interpreter works. < 1310258345 523321 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why there are no commonly used record-based filesystems. < 1310258347 969117 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe next time I might make up LWEB for making literate programming in LLVM, including macros and stuff. So that, in addition, LLVM can have a preprocessor. < 1310258384 606833 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Do you have some examples of record-based filesystems and in what cases they are used if not for generally common though? < 1310258402 274941 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one I'm looking at right now is Files-11 from OpenVMS < 1310258443 616068 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue what they would be used for. But it seems like affording data types in your filesystem would improve the structure? < 1310258508 662873 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1310258689 850328 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-79.vpn.utu.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1310258701 599836 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: also it would facillitate interprocess communication by eliminating the need to parse/deparse data into a character stream. < 1310258756 740384 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I could also see it needlessly complicated the system. < 1310258760 168824 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*complicating < 1310258778 782818 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes it would make the complicated system. < 1310258791 844866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:17:08: any explanation fo C not being turing complete is a flawed explanation < 1310258799 859290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im going to track him down and cause him to cease existing < 1310258807 682819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:16:52: Zuu: Yes, attaching an infinite tape to C can model a universal Turing machine. However, this is true for many, *many* a finite state machine. < 1310258808 908560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:17:37: pikhq: that wouldnt be a finite state machine then < 1310258810 218145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOW < 1310258811 151402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:16:52: Zuu: Yes, attaching an infinite tape to C can model a universal Turing machine. However, this is true for many, *many* a finite state machine. < 1310258812 364713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:17:37: pikhq: that wouldnt be a finite state machine then < 1310258813 289948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOW < 1310258820 871041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we all just stare at that for a while < 1310258918 461089 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would C be turing complete if pointers are not interchangeable with numbers? < 1310258981 623844 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that means pointer arithmetic is impossible right? < 1310259018 583799 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use a linked list struct for (virtually) unbounded memory. < 1310259033 285786 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it would not necessarily mean that. Pointer subtraction would be impossible but not adding a number to a pointer. < 1310259084 113744 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it would mean a union cannot mix pointers with non-pointers, I think. < 1310259110 33790 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would that be? < 1310259122 853245 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"20:11:11: well, when i say turing complete i really mean LBA (ofcource)" <<< < 1310259160 186582 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe it would still be OK as long as pointers are considered to be stored in a different address space therefore if a union mixed pointers with non-pointers you would access them separately still. < 1310259192 816584 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would allow sizeof to work as well where 1 cell in pointer memory can store unbounded pointer addresses < 1310259207 154067 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you computer scientists just make me sick < 1310259217 640111 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would have the consequence that sizeof(int***)==1 < 1310259224 233089 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh and that was not about Zuu, that was intentionally blank) < 1310259235 462599 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although of course all this stuff is impossible on real computer because real computer is not turing completed!! < 1310259243 122620 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just my usual math pretentiousness < 1310259264 240893 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought i'd explain that to u because you wouldn't have gotten it anyways. < 1310259268 596867 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously why can't C have tagged unions. < 1310259296 505417 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: do you think we'll ever turing complete it tho? < 1310259319 40628 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are right in that it clearly hasn't been turing completed yet < 1310259324 199017 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could use a struct to emulate a tagged union. < 1310259326 756451 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is lame. < 1310259339 417703 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tagged union is mean what again? < 1310259348 392767 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not remember :\ < 1310259352 968844 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Haskell union types. < 1310259355 7251 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Maybe you can use macros? < 1310259374 892576 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it c++ then that has those < 1310259388 290571 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a cobination of a struct containing a tag and an untagged union, and a set of macros to make it not a pain in the ass would work. < 1310259395 639229 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, I honestly don't know all that much about C++. < 1310259413 40339 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i think union is a keyword in c++ and it means... well union < 1310259439 461299 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :two types in one, the horriblest creation ever < 1310259450 892887 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C, union creates an untagged union, meaning there is no way to test which type the value is. < 1310259456 706044 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhh < 1310259465 124759 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what tagging is < 1310259468 904329 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you have to do that manually < 1310259475 294431 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Not a bad creation, at least in C is not bad. It is very useful to make union. < 1310259490 406038 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: actually it's is a terrifyingly terrible and terrious creation. < 1310259506 411916 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no offense mister fanboy < 1310259507 747104 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how Rust is coming along < 1310259508 164129 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :of c < 1310259511 866102 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language of a suck < 1310259514 722818 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1310259520 684638 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: it sucks ass right < 1310259523 879596 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :data [a] = (:) a [a] | [] < 1310259526 49834 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tagged union < 1310259551 905062 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(more or less) < 1310259558 586210 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: I don't know what "terrious" means but it is OK you and me can have different opinion about it. < 1310259582 461720 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i think you should be able to infer it from the context < 1310259585 784443 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But from what I can tell, LLVM doesn't have unions. < 1310259696 216179 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey linear bounded automata are totally turing complete i hear the emptiness problem for their languages is re complete i thought that's the math def lolol :SDSDSD < 1310259717 24559 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (x.tag == SHITTY_ENUM_THING) { x.value.type1; printf("baaaah this is stupid."); } < 1310259734 249338 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you can compile a C code to LLVM code, then it must be able to make unions somehow, with it. < 1310259745 802251 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely remmeber complaining about the bind syntax < 1310259750 896909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: pikhq: then it coudlnt be turing complete < 1310260481 788306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:18:22: Zuu: AND C HAS FINITE FUCKING STATE. < 1310260481 950600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:18:24: either way you tuirn it you will make it false < 1310260483 354233 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in fact it turns out that the emptiness of a single LBA is NOT RE complete! homework: let A be an LBA. give an algorithm that decides whether A has empty language. < 1310260487 590759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:18:30: Most finite state machines, *when given infinite state to work with*, are magically Turing-complete. < 1310260488 277244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:18:33: pikhq: no the hardware has < 1310260488 439432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:18:42: C is a language < 1310260490 173321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kdflhjfghlkghgkjhfdghjfdg < 1310260492 431076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate people < 1310260495 416048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially stupid people < 1310260501 686130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:19:45: so really, any language you can make up cam be said to have finite state in some spec. < 1310260502 363104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill < 1310260511 805919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:20:00: Zuu, the problem is not that the hardware is finite (of course it is). The issue is that the spec enforces any implementation to have finite state < 1310260512 495619 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:20:15: AnMaster: and that is very much beside the point < 1310260512 658177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:20:15: it is not a valid C implementation if you have infinite state < 1310260512 658354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:20:18: basically < 1310260512 658460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:20:25: Zuu, no it is _exactly_ the point here < 1310260513 179060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:20:26: Zuu: No, that IS THE POINT. < 1310260515 288454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:20:36: well, then you have argued for nothing < 1310260544 370260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i need a hug :( < 1310260554 70062 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: solve the problem and you'll get one < 1310260568 335297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :solved < 1310260569 755880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimme hug < 1310260594 67477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:25:05: ok, give me some hardware with infinite state, and i will write a C program that will act like any universal TC but yet only access a finite set of stats < 1310260594 791976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:25:18: Zuu, how. < 1310260594 955387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:25:22: a C program that conforms 100% to the spec i might add < 1310260594 955568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:25:35: Zuu: How? < 1310260594 955753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:26:16: By assuming that this finite state is large enough to compute whatever needs to becomputed, otherwise go into an infinite loop < 1310260595 508445 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :show me solution, sry left that kinda hanging in implicity < 1310260644 398967 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know there's a reason i switched to math < 1310260651 170164 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :things are just so easy < 1310260668 868643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:29:50: Just to be explicit, this argument ended at the sime you gius mentioned the finite state stuff form the spec < 1310260671 544635 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, BitC has theorems. < 1310260672 336618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:30:01: *guys < 1310260673 21245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:30:08: it just became to rediculous by then < 1310260681 807101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im seriously going to yell at this guy if he ever came in again DID YOU KNOW YOU WERE AN IDIOT A YEAR AGO AND I HATE YOU < 1310260713 787296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:33:37: there are several other ways to achieve UTC though < 1310260767 869324 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you know there's a Freenode service by the name alis? < 1310260783 561171 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu is a horrible person, i think we all agree already, no need to continue. < 1310260814 115105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: and? < 1310260817 184114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: but im still reading < 1310260842 627232 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i'm so tired i'll actually happily read some more of that shit < 1310260876 163808 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not enough willpower to resist the urge of enjoying being extremely annoyed < 1310260918 695376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: he's saying that using POSIX functions to prove C TC is ok because < 1310260919 867028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:36:51: remember the posic calls are mostly implemented in C aswell < 1310260979 559101 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it okay if i still tell you to shut up about that old bullshit we've heard a million times even though i secretly hope you continue < 1310261016 898201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1310261027 354295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:36:59: By the ISO standard for C, C is a finite-state automaton. < 1310261028 40211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:37:01: *posix < 1310261028 202270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:37:07: Zuu: POSIX defines extensions *to* C. < 1310261028 202439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:37:14: doesnt amtter < 1310261030 794810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally just punched the air < 1310261034 13382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the air represents zuu < 1310261039 613435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:37:55: ok, i have far more insterresting stuff to do than tell about ways to use C in a UTC way < 1310261051 783131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like being a terrible person and fucking killing kittens < 1310261057 983051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* [Zuu] (~vdsvsd@77.215.149.86): uzzuu < 1310261058 723149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1310261060 398132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i tel lhim < 1310261097 488859 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is he here < 1310261101 531738 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's here < 1310261102 409854 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1310261105 738795 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all that < 1310261109 644209 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's still here < 1310261112 874868 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :8| < 1310261114 973974 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT THE FUCK < 1310261123 578728 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should probably alert the freenode staff < 1310261133 218344 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe just paste those quotes on #freenode < 1310261140 821086 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the balls on that dude < 1310261162 769458 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like hello here i am again u remember me i'm the c is an utc dude let's have a party :D < 1310261190 233299 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no one understands his sentences because they are written my me so he gets away with it < 1310261196 509779 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*by < 1310261201 587426 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm making no sense < 1310261270 289974 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how unusual < 1310261276 342492 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow it's time :\ < 1310261281 974037 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :4:30 < 1310261286 882621 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION watches idiots play in #wolfgame < 1310261298 855214 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even I'm not that bad I think < 1310261310 513056 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless maybe it's... um, typical for that channel < 1310261320 717936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : it is impossible to use C in a UTC way, have a nice day! :) < 1310261323 53580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this can only go well < 1310261332 171333 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :man < 1310261334 659964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i mean < 1310261335 796959 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck are you doing < 1310261337 243174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you use another timezone < 1310261339 294991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C works perfectly < 1310261344 989806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: playing w/ devil < 1310261401 969026 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use w/ all the time when i'm doing math on the blackboard < 1310261438 119668 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow i'm obsessed with math today < 1310261442 679138 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how unusual < 1310261445 553988 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a weird night < 1310261881 369344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1310261898 714131 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229129148.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1310262155 742051 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1310262666 379758 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229067038.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1310262753 742553 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: wat < 1310262771 551740 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: c < 1310262777 787830 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: what < 1310262781 742152 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language < 1310262806 493903 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's kind of late now, not sure i need your input anymore < 1310262823 320591 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :except out of pure why notness < 1310262856 662315 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: what was the question now < 1310262866 534630 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it sucks right < 1310262880 951508 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ass < 1310262902 680945 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: when did i say that < 1310262911 957380 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :err never < 1310262917 342600 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just asking you if you agreed < 1310262930 143374 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why exactly did you say "wat"? < 1310262936 787460 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: oh. i only got your question < 1310262939 464916 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the line before it < 1310262957 525682 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i then told you what it was about < 1310262983 79676 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still u were so conf u sed < 1310262991 129390 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really nede to slk < 1310262998 992364 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :eep < 1310263009 343807 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :skleep < 1310263010 262097 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it < 1310263011 460792 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :slkeep < 1310263023 952073 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: don't rush me < 1310263030 316119 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i will maybe i won't < 1310263041 249782 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you're right i should < 1310263053 674495 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :write some c code until you fall asleep < 1310263078 553079 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would take so little time i would've probably been asleep all day already. < 1310263096 488251 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1310263098 472000 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :go for it < 1310263101 657151 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since c is boring as well i guess?) < 1310263166 867666 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia TOPIC #esoteric :elliott using his rationale of observable sharing | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1310263178 251605 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this make more or less sense? < 1310263178 994889 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I decided to buy the PediaPress book on compilers. < 1310263189 345126 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :700 pages of Wikipedia for $40 :P < 1310263189 888297 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1310263369 368143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Buy ALL THE PAGES < 1310263384 281016 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yesssssssssssssss < 1310263386 995896 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be many pages < 1310263412 466912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember that huge book of all the featured articles < 1310263414 240398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was like feet high < 1310263625 566720 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not only do I not remember that, I'm fairly certain I never heard about it. < 1310263651 248638 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i own that book < 1310263659 994474 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bought it because my kitchen stool broke < 1310263670 12099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it was just a picture of it < 1310263672 213249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not something actually sold < 1310263685 61055 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lul, found it. < 1310263686 80963 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1310263697 225751 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i linked it here once < 1310263705 68010 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was captioned gcc reference manual < 1310264049 381718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We used the Var x variant in Kansas Lava. We use it to encode two types of variables, Var and Reg, which have different timing semantics. Thus, turning a required annotation into a useful and required syntax." < 1310264052 120903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop mentioning lava u jerk < 1310264154 63913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tinyconcepts.com/invaders.html invaders in lambda calculus < 1310264161 871115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(partial) < 1310264436 294635 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net NICK :Sgeo|RainboyIsWo < 1310264439 564453 :Sgeo|RainboyIsWo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net NICK :Sgeo < 1310264541 857375 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feel free to speculate! < 1310264553 883477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1310264757 649572 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310264806 962849 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1310265383 983697 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read stuff about rulebooks in Inform 7, including about procedural rulebooks, rulebooks based on kinds, rulebooks producing values, and so on. I would like to figure out how it works I would like to see having some other programming language based on these things possibly being optimized and then compiled to LLVM which can be further optimized. < 1310265408 102214 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :However there is some problems, one is that the "ni" program is not yet published, also procedural rulebooks are deprecated. < 1310265437 163321 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION plays Mafia in #wolfgame < 1310265745 920658 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had a dream that i acted in a movie i think < 1310265751 834326 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1310265795 424874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good movie < 1310266233 717872 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310266532 669662 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also this new one can have property hook rules, when reading or writing a property you run the property hook rules in order of priority and the return value of one can be passed as the input of another, and so on. And also various other things. And things combining the Inform 7 style rulebooks with things similar to Magic: the Gathering rules. And more. < 1310266643 423014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:46:52: Hm, what prevents storing such a large number in a bugnum that it slows down the computer? < 1310266946 494159 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1310266966 702118 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310267021 207832 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310267636 794214 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1310267844 884455 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310268232 206378 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :storing your numbers in bugnums is usually not a very good idea. < 1310268446 129630 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: Bottled water is even GST [Greenwich Sandwich Time] free. < 1310268538 589333 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1310268822 509408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i sign a form with "i do not agree to this contract" do i still agree to it < 1310268824 927026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: help < 1310268841 635024 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310268980 832371 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1310269212 469914 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1310269218 841408 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310270378 73281 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how sleep? :\ < 1310270417 128344 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :everytime i close my eyes i'm like "so where was i... ah, the markers, let's see how to implement those" < 1310270466 601322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: never sleep < 1310270470 400256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what markers btw < 1310270485 487392 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :to prove my conjecture < 1310270505 884017 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :my second proof was also kind of incomplete (actually the first one wasn't really wrong either, just even more incomplete) < 1310270552 289563 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i finally figured out how to do this one helper CA that kinda sparsely marks stuff, but i then realized i need to rewrite all markers already in the point < 1310270564 542901 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or those will get confused with stuff < 1310270578 666150 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course due to entropy stuff that should be doable but it's one more pain in the ass < 1310270626 207496 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :really this will probably blow up into a hugey when i write it up, unless it completely breaks down before i finish it < 1310270838 313073 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is i know how to handle periodic points and i know how to handle parts of points that don't have small periods for very long anywhere, except there will be some errors occasionally because stuff happens, and i need to fix those errors and then somehow glue these two parts together < 1310270890 388583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: im a carp < 1310271004 52785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sir.. < 1310271004 215205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good Day! < 1310271004 215385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was amazed in the "Telehacks" and I've try it.. It was really cool. And I will bookmarked it. I have a question do you know how to hack? I wanted to try to hack my own laptop but i don't know where to start.. Uhm.. is there any way to hack it? I'm just a beginner/noob . < 1310271004 215492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you sir.. < 1310271005 53530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :p.s. sorry for my english, grammars and others. < 1310271122 219483 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first step in hacking your laptop is trying to come up with your password < 1310271137 608084 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you came up with it, you should be able to come up with it < 1310271145 405286 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, ask yourself what it is < 1310271153 174516 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and after telling yourself, type that in < 1310271160 468123 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked a few seconds at the logs and wow Zuu wow < 1310271197 245172 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i went to a Zuu once but there were too many monkeys inside so i left quickly < 1310271403 548963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: im seriously his enemy forever < 1310271411 402431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to find out where he lives and fly over there and open the door and say < 1310271414 393014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi do you go by "Zuu" on irc < 1310271418 707184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hell say yes why who are you a- < 1310271419 168464 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is he still existing < 1310271419 693320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that - < 1310271422 234366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :will be me punching him < 1310271423 793212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hes online < 1310271430 11611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he didnt reply though :( < 1310271581 430162 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am glad i am not in any channels he is in unless he is in good channels in which case i feel sorry for the channels :'( < 1310271614 179558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/announcing_olduse.net/ < 1310271614 638277 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1310271615 673070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1310271688 775766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.longnow.org/2011/06/17/major-update-on-the-10000-year-clock-project/ so cool < 1310271707 951990 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :excavations < 1310271709 690608 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're cool. < 1310271714 150877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yep < 1310271816 340497 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you build this thing, please display a prominent notice, in a multitude of languages, that we do *NOT* expect the world to end when the clock overflows. < 1310271817 793274 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::---D < 1310271819 440950 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is that olduse thing a Zuu thing, or something actually possibly decent? < 1310271862 384680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1310272016 921027 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck is the point of time anyway < 1310272029 492389 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :by which i mean is the clock just gonna be like buried or will it be seeable < 1310272070 783947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seeable < 1310272075 426003 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i don't recall ever see < 1310272076 733055 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1310272083 994692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock_of_the_Long_Now btw < 1310272087 169445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good reading < 1310272104 308726 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will re < 1310272120 594022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to build a clock that ticks once a year. The century hand advances once every one hundred years, and the cuckoo comes out on the millennium. I want the cuckoo to come out every millennium for the next 10,000 years. If I hurry I should finish the clock in time to see the cuckoo come out for the first time. < 1310272120 756159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :— Danny Hillis, The Millennium Clock, Wired Scenarios, 1995 < 1310272129 422400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Longevity: The clock should be accurate even after 10,000 years, and must not contain valuable parts (such as jewels, expensive metals, or special alloys) that might be looted." < 1310272132 545651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this stuff is intersting < 1310272134 794140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that radiation field < 1310272140 504329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the talking of how to convince people not to enter < 1310272233 193722 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :clockwork more like playground < 1310272349 266074 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it required maintenance < 1310272404 98900 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought at most there'd be a population of humans that live inside the clock and keep it going without ever interfering with other humans, teaching their children to do the same < 1310272425 399411 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the guardians of time we'd call them < 1310272428 56034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1310272431 998662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :support < 1310272440 381622 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they would have the hugest beards. < 1310272499 564955 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ticks once a year huh < 1310272505 873058 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how wonderfully boring < 1310272510 251981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1310272515 378217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ticks more than that < 1310272518 694119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just chimes once a year < 1310272519 291837 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1310272529 803504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no < 1310272532 300295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ticks once a year < 1310272533 824078 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just gay < 1310272534 860331 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1310272535 22617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and chimes every thousand < 1310272535 588080 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1310272543 486873 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no cuckoo every mil says wp < 1310272554 14206 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, my mission to make a minimal Linux system that can successfully build itself has resulted in something *somewhat* larger than I would've liked. < 1310272570 269748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1310272586 665365 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though at least I was able to beat Perl into being reasonable. < 1310272596 989372 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl? reasonable? < 1310272600 879735 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :does your program now contain every possible bit? < 1310272628 915334 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i once wrote a program whose source code contained every bit in existance < 1310272637 487321 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1310272644 953307 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1310272657 607729 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: By "reasonable" I mean "I only have miniperl. As /bin/perl." < 1310272663 923978 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: mine even had multiple copies of 0 < 1310272681 922935 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: and it works? I've never heard of it. will look it up < 1310272684 233985 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: daaaaaaaaaaaang < 1310272695 424290 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Miniperl is part of the Perl build process. < 1310272701 235480 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You see, Perl needs Perl to build Perl. < 1310272715 634014 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Miniperl just needs a reasonable C environment. < 1310272722 37218 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it builds Miniperl to build Perl. < 1310272737 762331 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only have it there because Linux requires Perl. < 1310272763 640803 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, though I'm reasonably confident it'll work, I haven't *tested* it yet. < 1310272771 135586 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I literally just got it to boot. < 1310272868 3670 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... And forgot to set a root password. Which makes things somewhat difficult when I'm actually using busybox getty. < 1310272889 222530 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1310272914 345365 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By which I mean "I forgot to make /etc/passwd". < 1310272920 856286 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the website says it generates a different chime sequence everyday oklofok < 1310272978 236481 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Aaaaah*, that's better. < 1310273068 342132 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"free -m" reports 8 megs used. That feels positively amazing. < 1310273179 431010 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310274214 57324 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp, let's see what breaks. < 1310275112 34351 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently "the toolchain" < 1310275171 989696 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sh: ./a.out: not found" < 1310276438 934278 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@user-12hcrs5.cable.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1310276439 393353 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@user-12hcrs5.cable.mindspring.com QUIT :Changing host < 1310276439 555479 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1310276740 449293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Long Now Foundation has purchased the top of Mount Washington near Ely, Nevada which is surrounded by Great Basin National Park, for the permanent storage of the full sized clock, once it is constructed. It will be housed in a series of rooms (the slowest mechanisms visible first) in the white limestone cliffs, approximately 10,000 feet up the Snake Range. The site's dryness, remoteness, and lack of economic value should protect the clock fro < 1310276740 676112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :m corrosion, vandalism, and development. Hillis chose this area of Nevada in part because it is home to a number of dwarf bristlecone pines, which the Foundation notes are nearly 5,000 years old. The clock will be almost entirely underground, and only accessed by foot traffic from the East once complete. < 1310276742 36703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so cool < 1310278214 237694 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta love Long Now. < 1310278323 76291 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1310278331 157342 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the whole point of the project kind of baffles me < 1310278455 789273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :brian eno is involved, suspend all thinking for the sake of cool please < 1310278485 716823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it strikes me as kind of reactionary, but i suppose their goal is better than a societal meltdown < 1310278537 81393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the same time i find a lot of what they say makes sense and seems kind of obvious, but then lots of things seem obvious to me < 1310278565 775116 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What seems obvious to you is almost impossible to others. < 1310278594 997778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :misanthropy: an unproductive position? < 1310278603 303491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :experts disagree < 1310278827 766659 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wha < 1310278831 742756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: wha? < 1310278836 504444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :t are you responding to < 1310278891 169916 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so very comical running GCC in a minimal changeroot. < 1310278912 834512 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :8m for the whole OS. 200m for the compiler. < 1310278913 590483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: question mark < 1310278939 279206 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: your comment about misanthropy < 1310278941 675455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is 3.0 still not out yet < 1310278946 980757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: in response to What seems obvious to you is almost impossible to others. < 1310278951 879235 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 3.0 of what? < 1310278957 610164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: linux < 1310278979 664230 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, though rc6 got pushed late last night. < 1310279027 312915 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, no, it was tagged July 4th. My thinko. < 1310279037 818573 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNAMERICAN < 1310279038 825809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Length: 76737255 (73M) [application/x-bzip2] < 1310279038 988170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh why is it so big < 1310279052 989192 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux has a fuckton of shit in it. < 1310279104 269136 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.6.0 was 32M... < 1310279106 9150 :CakeProphet!~adam@h7.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310279119 165757 :CakeProphet!~adam@h7.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1310279119 328022 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1310279187 462781 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all drivers < 1310279326 391137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: im going to make smaller system < 1310279330 989475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel my power < 1310279344 137756 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Good luck. < 1310279379 763439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :swap? who needs it < 1310279398 5029 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1310279403 874329 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's not zepto enough < 1310279424 85405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what isnt < 1310279424 940840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :swap < 1310279426 398409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not having swap < 1310279484 724818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :block layer?? no way < 1310279779 555568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: does it count if you have to use the serial port < 1310279787 316322 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-60.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1310279827 15783 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229067038.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1310279916 565938 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: < 1310279927 256893 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Meh. < 1310279950 679886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's a yes or no question < 1310279961 987281 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sure, whatever. < 1310279970 393132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just upset because i'll win :( < 1310279976 607040 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :System is 452 kB < 1310279976 769219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with monitor support < 1310279986 791000 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm trying to make a bootstrapping system. < 1310279990 23013 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so am I < 1310279996 530209 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Good fucking luck. < 1310280000 994545 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl comes to ~50M. < 1310280011 325096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i said it would be smaller than yours, not small < 1310280026 206848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: why aren't you using microperl < 1310280034 343547 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Linux won't build with microperl. < 1310280038 364921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix linux < 1310280100 826961 :CakeProphet!~adam@h7.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310280101 333737 :CakeProphet!~adam@h7.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1310280101 496014 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1310280123 15693 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1310280184 452945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder what it means if I get nothing after "Booting the kernel." :) < 1310280398 112868 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means that everything is working fine. < 1310280502 291313 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229067038.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1310280877 47851 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1310281289 710374 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1310283111 520407 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.futilitycloset.com/2011/07/10/a-logic-oddity/ yay I spotted the flaw in a decent amount of time < 1310283168 987532 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think) < 1310283211 162844 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it's more interesting if you make it probabilities instead of certainties. Certainly the problem as phrased deals with probabilities < 1310283236 975617 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it pretty obvious. We're not dealing with deductive logic here. < 1310283292 118233 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can't really do modus ponens on this. < 1310283297 570391 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was thinking more that "If it’s not Reagan who wins, it will be Anderson." is in fact true >.> < 1310283308 693389 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, that's 100% certain. < 1310283321 253909 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, it's not 100% certain that a Republican will win. < 1310283326 840334 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's merely probable. < 1310283341 779298 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, wait. < 1310283342 512616 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1310283345 513461 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, misread you. < 1310283348 728474 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not true. < 1310283375 408610 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's not 100% certain that a Republican will win, you can't conclude that either Reagan or Anderson will win. < 1310283388 47962 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a republican wins, oh shit. < 1310283449 640959 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens if you assign the first two statements numerical probabilities < 1310283491 418545 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my initial "flaw" thought was wrong < 1310283494 433411 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you're dealing with a form of inductive logic, and can get the probability that if Reagan doesn't win, Anderson will. < 1310283505 832421 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. That works just fine. < 1310283549 486839 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not too familiar with the relevant formalisms, though, so can't say more than that, really.) < 1310283942 471393 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the logic there makes me squirm < 1310284148 600505 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310284165 804497 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: The problem is only that the premises aren't necessarily true. < 1310284176 318986 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's entirely valid modus ponens. < 1310284202 616618 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which part is valid modus onens? < 1310284251 796890 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's of form "a->b;a;therefore b." < 1310284269 105961 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? Valid. < 1310284294 149327 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: which part specifically, though? < 1310284302 462367 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... That's the entire statement. < 1310284329 721611 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :which part of the article < 1310284339 533400 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... The syllogism? < 1310284344 220526 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1310284351 130299 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you're correct < 1310284351 409060 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm restating the only thing in there that can be restated in that form? < 1310284390 183552 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The oddity comes about simply because a is not (entirely) true, and so we end up getting a not (entirely) true statement from perfectly valid reasoning. < 1310284845 930012 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-60.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: no rush < 1310285628 128531 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1310286534 284831 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1310286682 479080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hash functions are typically one-way functions (these haven't been proven to exist yet, but at this time they're essentially non-reversible)." < 1310286952 528694 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1310286985 264346 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(x)=1 is provably non-reversible :P < 1310287004 735897 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are other conditions for a hash function duh < 1310287033 405803 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*one-way function < 1310287071 572798 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :He just means that you can't find preimages without brute-forcing < 1310287089 815080 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right so f(x)=1 isn't even that. < 1310287109 344848 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i dont know what he was quoting < 1310287134 594105 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my point was that non-reversibility is not the most important property of hashes < 1310287198 158548 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also pretty nice when they are bijections < 1310287214 98177 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, automorphisms? < 1310287220 230744 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the word? < 1310287283 321212 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And hash functions are demonstrably non-reversible as well. As are all functions that map from a space to a smaller space. < 1310287320 882078 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, people, math isn't hard. :P < 1310287340 699082 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 PRIVMSG #esoteric :automorphism = isomorphism which is also an endomorphism < 1310287350 450973 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i am considering the set of hashes over possible hash outputs < 1310287361 497588 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :every hash should hash to a distinct hash < 1310287399 877647 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and non-reversibility without bruteforcing is meaningful in this contect < 1310287403 199533 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :*text < 1310287557 355772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha guys < 1310287559 225410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you realise that < 1310287560 842060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i quote osmething < 1310287562 463004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its because its stupid < 1310287563 642783 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop talking < 1310287575 638679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : He just means that you can't find preimages without brute-forcing < 1310287592 766593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: E directly stated that one-way functions haven't been "proven to exist yet" < 1310287605 764898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might be what e /means/, but what e says is just confusing < 1310287622 306881 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : when i quote osmething < 1310287630 781070 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :An osmething is a thing made of osmium. < 1310287637 112330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :youre an osmefuckwit :( < 1310287638 857369 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought his meaning fairly clear from the rest of the message < 1310287662 999703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Sure, you can obviously "decode" it, but that's not the point, you can decode most things, even nonsense < 1310288041 885385 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: afaik, one-way functions _haven't_ been proven to exist. i believe they may require P != NP. < 1310288071 122226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hardly well-defined < 1310288084 617241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a value judgement < 1310288097 933894 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Define "one-way". < 1310288107 612871 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Function for which there is not an inverse? < 1310288110 322071 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\x.1 < 1310288113 381172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1310288124 966034 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-way_function < 1310288140 481378 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1310288149 239674 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sure, give a definition that makes the answer non-trivial. :P < 1310288152 226397 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is _not_ the same as one-to-one/injective < 1310288904 929475 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's sort of related i think if you look at it from the point of constructive logic where objects to be proven to exist need to be constructible and if you then add the qualifier "in polynomial time" < 1310288976 928443 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*randomized polynomial time, if we go with the wiki article < 1310288983 214694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1310289678 566982 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-181-181.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1310290214 987656 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-227-124.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1310290791 742801 :Slereah_!x@ANantes-259-1-146-111.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1310290882 156497 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-227-124.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1310292386 276390 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-3-85.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1310292386 590782 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-3-85.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1310292386 753057 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1310292580 256564 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1310293568 220046 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-15-115.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310299138 298136 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1310299254 40288 :hagb4rd2!~hagb4rd@koln-4d0b7c47.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: hagb4rd2 < 1310299889 329319 :CakeProphet!~adam@h3.26.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310299889 716708 :CakeProphet!~adam@h3.26.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1310299889 879078 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1310300253 905157 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is there any reason why this wouldn't work? f (c x y) ls = map ($ y) . map ((c$).($x)) $ ls < 1310300263 357686 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where c is an arbitrary constructor. < 1310300290 45810 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, other than it being unsupported in Haskell. I'm talking about a possible extension) < 1310300460 5580 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see a problem. < 1310300541 526315 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are undecidable types. The type of the first argument is a, but what is the type of the second? a list of functions from (...?) to (...?) < 1310300557 767370 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't be anything, because it depends on the constructors parameters. < 1310300580 76782 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are not known at compile time. < 1310301240 238178 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: This does in fact type check http://hpaste.org/new < 1310301253 995367 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unpl (c $) . ($ x) $ y < 1310301254 189862 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(c (y x)) < 1310301370 150433 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err http://hpaste.org/48909 < 1310301393 375306 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you likely mean something different and data T a b is not what you meant < 1310301406 226131 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :azaq231: He meant having the T be variable < 1310301426 325050 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you could e.g. have also data Y a b = Y a b and f could handle both T and Y < 1310301913 519359 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229067038.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1310301929 312846 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, after thinking about it, it obviously wouldn't work with Haskell's type system. < 1310301999 283753 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's always seemed reasonable to me to allow the tuple type to also represent a sort of anonymous data type with fields of a known type < 1310302030 763726 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus (Int, Int) would represent any type (or subset of a type) constructed from two Int fields. < 1310302073 575590 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case you could type the above as (a, b) -> [b -> c] -> (c, a) < 1310302124 553721 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er [(c,a)] < 1310302180 564683 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually no it would be (a, b) -> [a -> c] -> (c, b) < 1310302187 865633 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, [(c,b)] < 1310302219 188216 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shouldn't be reasoning about Haskell extensions while heavily in need of sleep after work. < 1310302474 332260 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think it would reasonable to simply make tuples a special kind of anonymous constructor, whose type is all values defined by a certain number of fields with a known type for each field. < 1310302529 435230 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it would be tempting to simply write all of your functions to return tuples when possible, since this would generalize the function to many different possible types < 1310302572 374351 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1310302703 408675 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229066089.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1310305210 462854 :ais523!~ais523@cpc2-king8-0-0-cust831.perr.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1310305217 358898 :ais523!~ais523@cpc2-king8-0-0-cust831.perr.cable.virginmedia.com QUIT :Changing host < 1310305217 521097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310306507 696064 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-227-98.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310306510 633823 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-129.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1310307518 846989 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1310308123 473322 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229066089.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1310308890 881712 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229129181.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1310309456 188513 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 NICK :mhosignal < 1310309519 756223 :mhosignal!~augur@208.58.6.161 NICK :augur < 1310312258 796528 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-11.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1310312655 17695 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1310313486 870528 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1310315257 277799 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310316337 741639 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-15-115.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1310316369 244090 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229129181.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1310316369 958232 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-15-115.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310316497 644087 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229129181.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1310317217 513418 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-11.elisa.ee PART :#esoteric < 1310318436 870714 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, do we have an opinion on what to do about languages like http://esolangs.org/wiki/Crazed (it has no real information on its page, and the author has lost the specs)? < 1310318540 966162 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suggest a "lost languages" category... < 1310319265 738280 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the author suggested deletion < 1310320254 369651 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@209.150.235.10 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310320615 585764 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright < 1310320620 43883 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :delete away < 1310320754 480623 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( at lost language specs < 1310320777 701208 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-227-98.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1310320842 700991 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( at brainfuck with more commands < 1310321022 62585 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno if i agree with that sentiment...if it's just that then yes, but i think some brainfuck derivatives have been quite interesting < 1310321041 426218 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, vaguely interesting BF variant: if you delete [ (and instead have all loops go back to the start of the program), is it still TC? < 1310321043 678035 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310321071 1315 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1310321119 24819 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so youd have to somehow store the entire branching path through the program on the tape to do different loops? < 1310321205 268883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from . , and loops, BF is reversible < 1310321218 561680 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so presumably you could reverse the whole program so far just after each ] < 1310321234 757875 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would believe it is TC if you wrote multiply in it < 1310321239 903722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to give effectively independent bits of code < 1310321350 720260 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric : so is there any reason why this wouldn't work? f (c x y) ls = map ($ y) . map ((c$).($x)) $ ls < 1310321376 486379 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one thing haskell is designed so that you cannot use constructors at all if they aren't exported from the module defining them < 1310321384 200379 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for abstraction) < 1310321473 358581 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the right side can be simplified to map (($y).(c$).($x)) $ ls < 1310321494 648410 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in fact ghc will do so during optimization) < 1310321787 687870 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310321802 15468 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck yes < 1310321804 713889 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1310321811 620511 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :behold, progress < 1310321826 16373 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2YZZr™' < 1310321832 53015 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :further progress has been made < 1310321858 456762 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome, stuff is moving along faster now < 1310321859 35403 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : %''7RTTd < 1310321877 489978 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1310321884 816828 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my evolutionary algorithm is trying to squeeze "Hello, world!" out of my esoteric language < 1310321913 977979 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that most recent sample was from generation 1105 < 1310321921 767953 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and took about 10 minutes < 1310321949 476094 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : #%%:]__t—# < 1310321966 802063 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you see that < 1310321974 567989 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is great progress taking place < 1310321987 976737 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :trololo < 1310321997 58302 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : .QSSii# < 1310321997 913671 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surface, right? Why do you need such a fancy algorithm when there's a reduction from brainfuck < 1310322011 898413 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the instructions are wrapped around a rather small sphere < 1310322015 873532 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-227-98.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310322018 282872 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, because I'm lazy < 1310322031 591301 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so instead of writing a hello, world example I wrote a program to write a hello, world example < 1310322114 316109 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I intend to apply the same code to other esolangs in the future < 1310322136 929667 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can make some examples for some of the more esoteric languages < 1310322146 960766 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think your GA is too slow < 1310322167 866881 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes through quite fast < 1310322174 499101 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~100 generations/minute < 1310322188 31411 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :population? < 1310322189 884860 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing is the complexity involved < 1310322193 944139 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pool of 128 < 1310322206 606999 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could go larger, but I decided to try that < 1310322210 168413 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1310322264 521779 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1310322275 380555 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could include the runtime in the fitness measure, to get faster candidates that should take less time to test < 1310322276 845501 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it in blitzbasic too < 1310322354 994685 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I haven't allowed the program to use a termination command and the IP wraps, so that's a bit impractical at this point. I have set a maximum run time, though < 1310322362 632645 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it's in blitzmax, yes < 1310322492 816290 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like you have some optimalization to do < 1310322506 224744 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1310322520 199925 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How exactly are you doing this hello world generation thing < 1310322570 42661 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a pool of initially random programs, I sample 4 of them at a time and replace the program farthest from the desired output with a combination of the best two, with some opportunity for mutation < 1310322603 188066 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the samples I've been giving you are the closest obtained output so far < 1310322608 532898 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :random strings? < 1310322616 740535 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the esolang is 2d < 1310322622 260348 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not really strings, but arrays < 1310322684 511207 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :pfffft < 1310322695 373697 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing < 1310322710 107964 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the length isn't variable, so there's that difference < 1310322730 650883 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was assuming they weren't < 1310322738 199843 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1310322807 546271 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1310322808 938890 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shoot < 1310322816 966419 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realized a mistake I made D: < 1310322823 923757 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how do you measure helloworldness of an output / combine two helloworldy programs < 1310322840 53045 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I measure it by checking similarity of characters < 1310322855 36068 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that complicated, but it is more than a 1:1 check < 1310322879 780536 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I combine them by using an almost 50/50 chance for each character, with a slight bias toward the program with the better score < 1310322905 832461 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :mutation rate? < 1310322928 586093 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now each character in an offspring is a 1 in 32 chance of being randomly chose < 1310322946 265347 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long is an offspring? < 1310322964 142350 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :program code is stored in a 32x12 array < 1310322965 702603 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk: So you know exactly what parts of each program produce which characters, and are able to separate them cleanly and stick them together nicely? < 1310322985 91247 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is an awfully high mutation rate < 1310322995 765860 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I'm not really sure what you're asking < 1310322998 997217 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a way to decrease it over time < 1310323000 524337 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll reduce it a bit, then < 1310323006 4271 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could do that < 1310323059 527024 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :GA is a really inefficient search paradigm, you know < 1310323062 555070 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk: You said you combine your programs, right? I asked how you did that, and I reaced based on your response "< Madk> I combine them by using an almost 50/50 chance for each character, with a slight bias toward the program with the better score" < 1310323084 964043 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the distribution is random, if that's what you meant < 1310323093 609396 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk: that's not what I mean < 1310323105 383154 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see now < 1310323105 904491 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1310323106 733102 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk: I mean how do you take two programs and mash them together in a sane way < 1310323115 242927 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very random < 1310323118 99018 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1310323120 448911 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really sane there < 1310323135 612016 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: but it's so much cooler than just translating a brainfuck hello world < 1310323143 487563 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: if I intended to be efficient I would have written it manually < 1310323146 948639 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1310323241 937809 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1310323258 325926 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why GA and not simulated annealing? < 1310323300 130351 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk: so for combining programs you just go over every character and pick it from one of the two constituent programs? I imagine this won't get you anywhere near hello world < 1310323320 888611 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: the end result can be more interesting < 1310323331 470657 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what could I do that would work better? < 1310323368 338929 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: well you'd imagine the programs that survived might be related and so have the same structure, so it starts working better after a while? < 1310323369 161157 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. Breeding for hello world characteristics is not really a simple problem. < 1310323378 973579 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm < 1310323411 298891 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did a much simpler GA not long ago that operated on a much less complicated esolang < 1310323420 346514 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though for an entirely different purpose < 1310323425 46795 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the GA worked wonderfully < 1310323431 900083 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was it? < 1310323444 769180 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was more similar to corewar than anything else < 1310323453 14140 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put a few programs in an arena < 1310323468 905400 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ones that had the most health (eat food, attack others) bred and replaced the one that did badly < 1310323492 750914 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by about 100k generations I had some very complex and intriguing behaviors < 1310323530 283004 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I assume the language was such that good breeding was easier < 1310323541 203624 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was 1d and variable length < 1310323545 712695 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so only slightly < 1310323559 819224 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that has little to do with it < 1310323569 117213 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I remember right, some of the best ones had formed good loops structures < 1310323598 533007 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one working currently and that one were only significantly different in that the previous was linear < 1310323607 19442 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :linear? < 1310323609 350915 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d < 1310323617 831812 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1310323627 968745 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still stand that that has little to do with it < 1310323633 638870 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1310323665 314232 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more about the structure of the language in the sense that it's easy to break it up structurally and muck with that < 1310323667 905395 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by 1000 generations, the programs I was working with now were outputting the same character twice where 'll' would be < 1310323669 983507 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than just doing character replacement < 1310323681 282512 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk: btw i was wondering how you do the sphere wrapping, since there is no entirely clean way of doing so (we had a discussion on channel previously of what surfaces have 2d grid graphs on them and they had to have the same euler characteristic as the torus, and the sphere doesn't) < 1310323683 239780 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very inefficient, indeed, but it's seemed to work < 1310323694 855867 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a 2d array < 1310323700 349450 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :x wraps horizontally < 1310323707 41446 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the algorithm for y wrapping is like this: < 1310323727 118857 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when a pole is reached, x=(x+width/2) % width < 1310323733 756705 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and north and south are reversed < 1310323757 35750 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. so inspired by an ordinary world map, then. < 1310323761 46194 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1310323785 428839 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's no different than latitude/longitudinal coordinates < 1310323805 116497 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. this makes the poles into special points. < 1310323847 835390 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1310324038 157630 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to scrap that progress because I was forgetting to reset program code after going through it < 1310324051 254726 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now's a good time to do things like change pool size, w/e < 1310324063 793058 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I adjusted the mutation rate to decrease steadily over time < 1310324075 629474 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did a good deal of optimization < 1310324085 702966 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310324096 499206 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are the haps my friends. < 1310324112 875402 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :genererational algorithm to produce a hello world < 1310324121 901669 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using an evolutionary algorithm to make a hello world example in my language for me because I don't feel like doing it myself < 1310324142 874890 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk? < 1310324146 656310 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :me < 1310324152 516806 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is my alias < 1310324158 654683 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, I'm surprised you got anything but a steely reception here. < 1310324164 429187 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: ? < 1310324186 87967 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes I am tactless.) < 1310324192 31725 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pfft < 1310324205 117155 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for more information see http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Phantom_Hoover < 1310324212 848583 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy beat me to it. < 1310324226 963521 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1310324232 996376 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of my languages aren't < 1310324235 394486 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1310324259 765067 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :only 3 of them are really that similar to brainfuck < 1310324264 586076 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 other is kinda close < 1310324276 207385 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 aren't < 1310324284 378338 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even one brainfuck derivative is too many. < 1310324292 975825 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :w/e < 1310324301 395868 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm trying to figure the best pool size before I set it back in motion with some fixes I made < 1310324301 792667 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck. Not even once. < 1310324321 754061 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you'd hardly let a Nazi off because most of the people he killed weren't even Jews. < 1310324330 376547 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you wouldn;t < 1310324338 195816 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hits Phantom_Hoover ===\__/ < 1310324349 934054 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is 128 good? < 1310324366 449669 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is essentailly the one thing I can't go and change without scrapping everything < 1310324368 450162 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swatpans oerjan --===\#/ < 1310324388 828532 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk, how hard can pool size be to configure? < 1310324391 629728 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I want to inject a bunch of random crap into a developed pool < 1310324405 81900 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the point being once it's started I don't want to change the pool size < 1310324419 105765 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can change pretty much anything else without impacting a lot < 1310324430 107262 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, which language is this? < 1310324435 993277 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in blitzmax < 1310324445 522746 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point being it saves the pool every now and then < 1310324453 252590 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can pick up from where it leaves off < 1310324458 510948 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean the target language. < 1310324461 397746 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1310324462 669817 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :surface < 1310324462 832052 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one you want HW for. < 1310324467 161451 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um... < 1310324478 920567 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Surface < 1310324507 936389 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You reduce it to Brainfuck in the article; how hard can it be to just rewrite the BF HW? < 1310324528 379984 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but but, that would be derivative! < 1310324531 90603 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the space available is too small to translate it like that < 1310324532 930389 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that < 1310324537 554468 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whistles innocently < 1310324553 253924 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh this reminds me < 1310324556 12820 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started one manually and thought, "what's wrong with me? I should be having the computer do this for me." < 1310324556 175673 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote unbounded < 1310324557 329454 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :478) The interpreter uses an unbounded tape size, but due to technical limitations will stop being unbounded if the tap size reaches 2^63 cells. < 1310324561 462259 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk: what is this supposed to mean < 1310324585 621401 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, it's the Orwellian definition of 'unbounded'. < 1310324599 548136 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it's a limitation of the machine, not the language < 1310324608 327572 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of < 1310324608 491229 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's unbounded... provided you don't go over the bounds. < 1310324611 536174 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1310324654 327615 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have complete freedom to follow big brother < 1310324663 864881 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1310324678 328960 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well anyway < 1310324684 754581 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going on with me pool of 128 < 1310324926 478134 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1310324931 750992 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it work? < 1310324941 68645 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff is maturing much faster now that it's working properly < 1310324968 742577 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a few commands that toggle to another when executed < 1310324972 917697 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :was forgetting to reset them < 1310324999 746354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310325005 801517 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also forgetting to keep track of a program's success instead of re-running it every time I called it into question < 1310325014 375098 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so going generally much faster now < 1310325034 813509 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : //;; < 1310325051 348561 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : ##99GG < 1310325075 174403 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@209.150.235.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops < 1310325084 469921 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iconmaster < 1310325091 207207 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did the unthinkable < 1310325098 458713 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@209.150.235.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1310325100 355561 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I registered an account on a furry forum just to contact you < 1310325106 440374 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you appreciate this < 1310325107 918353 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@209.150.235.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw, lol. < 1310325110 775575 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1310325133 501609 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@209.150.235.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, the specs for Crazed have been lost for a long time. < 1310325148 261482 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is too bad < 1310325167 925203 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@209.150.235.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In retrospect, it was a crappy language anyways, so no big loss < 1310325183 23212 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are no crappy languages < 1310325183 185404 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@209.150.235.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My first esolang, to be percise. < 1310325186 242423 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :only crappy programmers < 1310325187 352018 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1310325202 533270 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@209.150.235.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Thanks Madk? < 1310325202 695640 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*whistles* < 1310325226 545980 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen a few crappy languages < 1310325260 287758 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the progress being made in 5 minutes is good < 1310325273 38989 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this'll probably happen in a matter of a couple hours < 1310325288 632577 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@209.150.235.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote #%%:]__t—# do you see that that is great progress taking place < 1310325290 242560 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1310325296 693466 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FURScript is pretty crappy. Snack too. < 1310325298 405130 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : ##66YYll < 1310325312 198600 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1310325315 745922 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was great progress < 1310325316 112857 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@209.150.235.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops again... < 1310325322 790865 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@209.150.235.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote #%%:]__t—# do you see that that is great progress taking place < 1310325324 525469 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :493) #%%:]__t—# do you see that that is great progress taking place < 1310325324 687412 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my algorithm was kinda flawed < 1310325350 126230 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :` < 1310325351 568730 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1310325361 359501 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I make it quote me < 1310325398 777988 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-227-98.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1310325401 243187 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now this is the best program so far < 1310325401 405404 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@209.150.235.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :say `addquote "quote here" < 1310325402 414145 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-206-183.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310325403 804935 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ /^>e.v <]xe^zo+^]+> *>++(-c )\ < 1310325403 967115 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(c)? @!-^*)?-..z+*)+o--x@^-!!+ o < 1310325403 967307 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o)/o]c@c+z\]\eevz\ -\x < 1310325403 967419 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :](!@< c(c!.z+\+++/?\ < 1310325403 967530 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :z]/x/++oo-]?c?!\/+! +x^+ < 1310325404 763295 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :)v>o(*z>-@ox c\(c*-@x] c))vc>? o < 1310325404 925757 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^*/x.o\!@e/^> < 1310325405 754074 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :c @c\ .>^x*o. )@\-e^x\<\- ]^(<- < 1310325405 916202 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :) *<^z!e\).?/+(e@(cv>\c ]. ece? < 1310325406 726171 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :c@z]/v+++++-! \e@c^/e?o) \] < 1310325407 782879 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :* /cc@)\?o/o !^^-e /ec\>.!.>@*o < 1310325407 945357 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :)/ vo]zx \\o< cz.(@v/c>..*>\+(@! < 1310325408 725292 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!^+x-xev@v)+vc\\]<+x?\>e *ee(z\< < 1310325416 92950 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@209.150.235.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah < 1310325418 547398 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote Madk < 1310325419 272641 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://j.mearie.org/post/7462182919/spoken-number-to-decimal shameless advertisement for obfuscated code. :p < 1310325419 620168 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :493) #%%:]__t—# do you see that that is great progress taking place < 1310325423 23016 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1310325423 869291 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1310325463 755497 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : there are no crappy languages < 1310325472 957604 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should know what I'm going to say to that. < 1310325476 308513 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: that looks awesome < 1310325484 267622 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about the other way around < 1310325488 603071 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@209.150.235.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote iconmaster < 1310325490 30845 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1310325493 955617 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@209.150.235.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didnt think so. < 1310325506 619708 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :` quote Phantom_Hoover < 1310325507 948388 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1310325508 652496 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk: 100 to "a hundred", for example? < 1310325514 530074 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk, no space. < 1310325517 11956 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1310325522 287584 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote Phantom_Hoover < 1310325523 993232 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :151) * Phantom_Hoover wonders where the size of the compiled Linux kernel comes from. To comply with the GFDL, there's a copy of Wikipedia in there. \ 155) how does a "DNA computer" work. von neumann machines? CakeProphet, that's boring in the context of DNA. < 1310325524 711205 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be certainly a bit-packing challenge. < 1310325542 733441 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found the inverse direction is much more challenging and fun. < 1310325544 187365 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it's almost always better to use `pastequotes. < 1310325574 237528 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote iconmaster `quote iconmaster No output. Didnt think so. < 1310325575 769727 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :494) iconmaster `quote iconmaster No output. Didnt think so. < 1310325592 710056 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastequotes Phantom_Hoover < 1310325593 939574 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.30844 < 1310325634 994955 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 155 < 1310325636 215861 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :155) how does a "DNA computer" work. von neumann machines? CakeProphet, that's boring in the context of DNA. It's just stealing the universe's work and passing it off as our own. < 1310325689 48232 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote Sgeo's karaoke < 1310325690 642700 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :400) [on Sgeo's karaoke] Sgeo: awesome sounds like a japan anime sound track \ 401) [on Sgeo's karaoke] That is the thing that made me into a gay vampire. < 1310325702 860350 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, I thought there were more than that. < 1310325719 273803 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 477 < 1310325720 946963 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :477) I go to clean up the shrapnel from a teabag and you're discussing the definition of god out of nowhere. < 1310325724 336631 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 402 < 1310325725 418743 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I still have sgeo's karaoke saved < 1310325725 596219 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :402) Yeah, I went through a whole series of existential crises when I was 8 or so. < 1310325735 375000 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@209.150.235.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 413 < 1310325737 10081 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :413) Vorpal: it's actually called Happy Vorpal: Do not use it. Use Parsec. This is the wisdom of ZOMGMODULES. < 1310325743 860006 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 1 < 1310325745 543337 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) I used computational linguistics to kill her. < 1310325760 249925 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk, note that the quote numbering is highly unreliable. < 1310325765 230833 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 42 < 1310325766 949494 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :42) i'm my dad's unborn sister < 1310325778 372418 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On account of elliott being a lazy bastard and just making it the line of the file the quote is on. < 1310325794 323356 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 256 < 1310325795 705592 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :256) I have plans to make the computer and one day I will do it!! (I have access to barter some people might help with these things) It is many difference from other computer. < 1310325823 555537 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES < 1310325826 958989 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE HAVE A ! < 1310325827 810221 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :##66YYll! < 1310325835 878146 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1310325836 62689 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1310325840 320453 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@209.150.235.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1310325844 814833 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1310325851 959732 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :‽ < 1310325857 445176 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/A !/NO BANANAS!/ < 1310325857 853363 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@209.150.235.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now for the "hello World" part. < 1310325860 454238 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!hello < 1310325865 579514 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command () encountered < 1310325872 340466 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one has a ! and an l in the right places < 1310325872 884927 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :##66YYll! < 1310325875 604751 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1310325882 332059 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show hello < 1310325882 673880 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :c char buf[1024]; int i; fgets(buf, 1024, stdin); for (i=0;buf[i];i++)buf[i]=(buf[i]=='\n')?'\0':buf[i]; if (!strcmp(buf, "h")) printf("Hello World\n"); else printf("Unknown command (%s) encountered\n", buf); < 1310325887 856313 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk, out of curiosity, how are you defining the fitness function? < 1310325902 695412 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1310325933 269431 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: score=0 should be a perfect match < 1310325933 690369 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh i think it's erroring on the newline < 1310325934 761971 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Local score%=Abs(Len(output)-Len(desired))*1024 < 1310325934 924721 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Local stop%=0 < 1310325934 924895 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : For Local x%=1 To Min(Len(output),Len(desired)) < 1310325934 925003 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : If Mid(desired,x,1)<>Mid(output,x,1) And stop=0 stop=x < 1310325934 925131 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : score:+Abs(Asc(Mid(output,x,1))-Asc(Mid(desired,x,1)))*(x-stop) < 1310325935 731911 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Next < 1310325935 893961 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Return score < 1310325965 996741 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1310325980 971598 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason I thought I'd also added a benefit for characters near where they belong < 1310325984 238026 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apparently not < 1310325989 667841 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1310325992 130956 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds bad < 1310326016 759068 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be like exponential increase in value of a letter as it approaches the desired value < 1310326022 645735 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk: hamming distance >:) < 1310326029 568604 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@209.150.235.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language is that Madk? < 1310326039 503490 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :blitzmax < 1310326039 665636 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that was an intention to make it develop left-to-right but it's doing the opposite < 1310326045 649832 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that was my mistake < 1310326083 766250 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might want to fix that and start over, I'm not sure < 1310326085 912868 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk: i'd imagine left-to-right would be more robust during evolution < 1310326089 298465 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1310326097 883358 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :also are you really only breeding one new program per generation? < 1310326099 173432 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the intention, I wasn't thinking clearly < 1310326101 796088 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1310326108 337023 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all initial programs are generation 1 < 1310326118 503660 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a new program is the greater generation of its 2 parents +1 < 1310326151 118491 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what actually does "100 generations per minute" mean? < 1310326176 240300 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you are caching scores for programs that are kept alive yes? < 1310326177 92489 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in one minute the average generation increases by about 100 < 1310326180 64199 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1310326186 427981 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's faster now < 1310326195 95793 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I wasn't caching when that was the case < 1310326219 84138 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION detects some kind of basic < 1310326238 396538 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :blitzmax has sort of basic syntax < 1310326240 593026 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of < 1310326247 690051 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, {} are replaced with words < 1310326253 102893 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that it's not really basic < 1310326260 180655 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just looks prettier in that respect < 1310326317 235145 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is advertised as being basic-like but that's very misleading < 1310326338 293404 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's OO and just happens to have some stuff that's like basic in addition to it < 1310326614 529681 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah it's descended from basic, wikipedia implies < 1310326618 820423 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229129181.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1310326645 420551 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the guy who made it made a few basic languages before blitzmax < 1310326650 783858 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so its predecessors were basic < 1310326768 139793 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, how does this look for my fitness function < 1310326769 326095 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Local score%=Abs(Len(output)-Len(desired))*1024 < 1310326769 487492 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : For Local x%=1 To Min(Len(output),Len(desired)) < 1310326769 487669 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : score:+Abs(Asc(Mid(output,x,1))-Asc(Mid(desired,x,1)))*(Max(Len(output),Len(desired))-Min(x,Len(desired))+1) < 1310326769 487777 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Next < 1310326769 487886 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Return score < 1310326784 535243 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, the lower the score the more accurate the output < 1310327173 271653 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1310327191 248035 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :a parabolic curve towards the desired character/~? < 1310327382 403327 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229129181.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1310327451 97277 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much < 1310327518 725631 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :372) DON'T MOCK ME WITH YOUR ABILITY TO DIVIDE BY TEN < 1310327921 885974 :choochter!~choochter@84.93.44.198 QUIT :Quit: lang may yer lum reek.. < 1310328945 993674 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1310330608 597870 :Madk!~IceChat77@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot. < 1310331000 993792 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310331541 847523 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1310332469 202734 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1310333198 978618 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-15-115.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1310335666 313742 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not happy about his phone being shattered < 1310335707 478879 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what you get for walking around near red mages holding an artifact < 1310335727 428496 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :..? < 1310335733 746554 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what that's a reference to < 1310335931 262542 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=194147 < 1310336241 323564 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just saw a bug < 1310336256 308379 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"LC is a really nice language. I wasn't able to find a modern, untyped, lazy language." < 1310336262 996513 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :LC means exactly what you think it meas. < 1310336265 753850 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was like o_O and it was like O_o < 1310336274 273487 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*means < 1310336436 960884 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: locale? < 1310336453 719074 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, -_- < 1310336470 679475 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1310336498 593762 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lambda Calculus? < 1310336516 192094 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaand we have a winner < 1310336633 512254 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The prize is a phial of catalase in the ear! < 1310337062 975217 :DocHerrings!~DocHerrin@pool-71-246-79-37.bltmmd.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310337428 232391 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DocHerrings! < 1310337440 608652 :DocHerrings!~DocHerrin@pool-71-246-79-37.bltmmd.east.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover! < 1310337447 154756 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that by now you have given up on the Eodermdrome interpreter. < 1310337458 981814 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, are the rumours of you writing an incredibly inefficient one true? < 1310337461 929298 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i implemented that once < 1310337465 819084 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1310337484 363156 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, also it was asymptotically fast enough < 1310337488 48985 :DocHerrings!~DocHerrin@pool-71-246-79-37.bltmmd.east.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite. There was no way to implement it nicely, so I decided not to implement it at all. :) < 1310337488 923700 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1310337494 337549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1310337505 543816 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1310337548 961779 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i did some small optimizations before abandoning it, there were no programs so i didn't quite feel the need to make it better. < 1310337568 622429 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it's just a graph rewriter, i've written lots of those < 1310337591 1018 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-206-183.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm really kinda surprised. I don't think anyone else has bothered setting up a Linux system which is just barely capable of building itself. < 1310337601 378869 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Quite. There was no way to implement it nicely, so I decided not to implement it at all. :) < 1310337612 101405 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: i think pikhq did that as well < 1310337618 387895 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-206-183.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Smartass. < 1310337625 149941 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :DDDDDDDddddddd: < 1310337629 94441 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-206-183.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, it didn't bootstrap until just now. < 1310337629 982886 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's possible, but my incredible lethargy forbids me from working out further details. < 1310337637 691663 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-206-183.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux also needs GNU sed. < 1310337648 598954 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: i don't actually recall if you were underscoreless last time although i have a vague feeling you were < 1310337676 156585 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-206-183.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was. < 1310337678 945031 :DocHerrings!~DocHerrin@pool-71-246-79-37.bltmmd.east.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally, I made a function that converted my tag system into a generalized structure of nil values, then attempted to compare them. But it was terribly inefficient. < 1310337715 27419 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and graph rewriting is np-complete since as a special case you need to solve the isomorphic subgraph problem, so you can't really completely solve the problem < 1310337726 267009 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm sure you can solve all cases that actually occur in programming < 1310337744 29314 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, there's an algorithm which allows it to be done in polynomial time for fixed match subgraphs. < 1310337751 555247 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. Eodermdrome match subgraphs. < 1310337752 696013 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurr durr obviously < 1310337781 751081 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, given a single program, it will not be np complete to run it < 1310337784 820024 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Personally, I made a function that converted my tag system into a generalized structure of nil values, then attempted to compare them. But it was terribly inefficient. < 1310337801 693473 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My general inclination was "gensym all the tags". < 1310337803 668425 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's kind of beside the point since you need to run more than a fixed set of programs, it becomes relevant that the polynomial grows very fast < 1310337851 854601 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there hardware description languages without arithmetic? < 1310337866 898607 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" oklofok, there's an algorithm which allows it to be done in polynomial time for fixed match subgraphs." <<< from each node, do a depth n search where n is the number of nodes in the needle graph (as opposed to the haystack graph), obviously that's polynomial < 1310337890 619546 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's x^n where x is the size of the haystack < 1310337935 530589 :DocHerrings!~DocHerrin@pool-71-246-79-37.bltmmd.east.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But how would you reliably compare all the gensyms? < 1310337940 792384 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to guess there's also an algorithm that works in x^(sqrt n), based on nothing really. < 1310338005 871701 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DocHerrings, you'd need to use a subgraph isomorphism algorithm, which is where the inefficiency comes in. < 1310338010 749791 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@209.150.235.10 QUIT :Quit: Pardon me, but I have to go die in NetHack again. < 1310338038 190172 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, don't polynomials have integral powers? < 1310338052 881802 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean? < 1310338058 44115 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, according to WP, positive integral powers. < 1310338058 480012 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1310338068 271983 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1310338073 874458 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you joking < 1310338090 868087 :DocHerrings!~DocHerrin@pool-71-246-79-37.bltmmd.east.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Seems to me that we have just agreed that the tag system is arbitrary. :) < 1310338096 838562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :f < 1310338097 52781 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1310338099 504937 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DocHerrings, yeah, hence gensyms. < 1310338108 984087 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd call O(n) and O(n^2) polynomial time but O(n^1.5) not? < 1310338140 395834 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose you were joking < 1310338151 368065 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slight misunderstanding, I suppose. < 1310338160 939207 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhapses < 1310338165 134083 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :n is usually the changing thing < 1310338175 828444 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not in what i just said < 1310338180 632058 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so umm < 1310338200 580965 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in x^n x is the haystack and n is the needle, and the needle is fixed < 1310338228 545870 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could have O(n^1/2) if you were doing something to a matrix. < 1310338228 959959 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(x^(sqrt n)) is still polynomial, since it is in particular in O(x^ceil(sqrt n)) < 1310338234 668331 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow. < 1310338291 538337 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have O(n^1/2) in many things < 1310338308 970437 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay not O(n^1/2) so much since usually you have to read the input < 1310338314 226626 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but n^3/2 < 1310338320 142721 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is common enough i think < 1310338344 552571 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to come up with a natural reason for that to occur... < 1310338368 190105 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously if there's some kind of squares being built that might happen < 1310338370 849490 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you said < 1310338416 663387 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(might happen and often happens, just means you are linear w.r.t. height) < 1310338419 112043 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or width < 1310338452 915027 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, you have n integers and arrange them into a square matrix and then sum along one of the columns. < 1310338492 805746 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well n^3/2 occurs if you have to, for each column, do something in every cell, what you just described is O(n) if i understand correctly < 1310338495 185358 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or wait, actually, I think just arranging n integers into a square matrix is O(sqrt(n)) < 1310338506 166021 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's O(n) < 1310338511 561614 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1310338513 140090 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to go through the integers < 1310338515 455892 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1310338534 718628 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have n integers, and you touch all of them, that's at least O(n). < 1310338548 80966 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming you have a square matrix as a C-style array of pointers to arrays. < 1310338572 394907 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if it's already given like that then summing along say the first column would be n^0.5 < 1310338581 461115 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you said < 1310338602 666530 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have n objects, and while summing you touch roughly every squareth of them < 1310338613 918044 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You work out sqrt(n), take its ceiling m, then go along each m places in the array of ints you have and sticking the pointer to it in the matrix array. < 1310338635 27126 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then summing the side is just another O(sqrt(n)). < 1310338638 721587 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you work out sqrt(n)? < 1310338652 589491 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you also given n in binary? < 1310338652 790882 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that didn't count. < 1310338707 270994 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming n has an upper bound, it doesn't matter. < 1310338731 36907 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case the working out takes a polynomial of log n time and is just not significant, and not spacewise either. then if you have random access and other real life computery stuff at hand, true, n^0.5 to make a matrix out of the array. < 1310338810 86176 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Assuming n has an upper bound, it doesn't matter." <<< that's a dangerous way of looking at things though, said the mathematician < 1310338849 565364 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :just say there's an additional log n space wasted but it is hidden by the invisible constant in the linear term < 1310338855 227833 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and same for time < 1310338866 164416 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok i do not know all these fancy computer things < 1310338870 268412 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am but a foolish youth < 1310338895 766431 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what thing did you not understand? < 1310338910 838145 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know what O(f(n)) means by the way? i usually assume cs people have a firm intuitive grip at least < 1310338919 281800 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :even foolish youths < 1310338944 557222 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not actually that I don't understand, more that I'm tired and there are too many words for me to bother with. < 1310338962 285090 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, i'm not saying anything important. < 1310338977 758276 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW UNUSUAL < 1310338985 514953 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :my little toe has lost feeling again < 1310338991 927334 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :numb most of the day :( < 1310339002 443224 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'm dying maybe? < 1310339003 492113 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freeze it into submission. < 1310339019 49641 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mwahahaah < 1310339023 887754 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also you can't be dying it's colder here than it is in Finland in summer TRUE FACT, < 1310339037 970053 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1310339047 601623 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MARITIME CLIMATE BITCHES < 1310339050 121432 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is actually reeeeeeeally hot i wish i had a fan < 1310339079 865292 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :England is stupidly warm as far as I can tell. < 1310339085 625955 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean merrytime climate amirite < 1310339092 889892 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually took my jumper off for significant periods of time. < 1310339110 387500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the summer you idiot. < 1310339124 888254 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1310339125 689278 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But < 1310339130 319940 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never take off my jumper < 1310339141 688098 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless there is a real risk of death. < 1310339240 254556 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also there are no hills; how do you not go insane it is a mystery to me. < 1310339253 672754 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-----D < 1310339276 709863 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have upside down hills but they're full of water :( < 1310339297 325027 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, but they are still hills. < 1310339305 47266 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly < 1310339316 803222 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pair of gills and you're ready for some serious mountaineering < 1310339325 649304 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps I can lend some hills to the poor folk of England. < 1310339364 364683 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait no the hills have already spread to where elliott is. < 1310339456 76757 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mystery solved. < 1310339485 737841 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mutters something inappropriate about elliott's sanity and Phantom_Hoover's comment earlier < 1310339537 201512 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, come now, how can elliott be insane with all those hills. < 1310339588 855704 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1310339591 468961 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want a theremin :( < 1310339620 485026 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott has a theremin IIRC. < 1310339628 407955 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: how can you want a theremin and complain about other people's sanity at the same time? < 1310339639 204645 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, he does not have enough hills. < 1310339644 197822 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :have i sain i'm sane < 1310339656 63249 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tell you what: i ain < 1310339657 813524 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :' < 1310339663 246783 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but umm < 1310339670 169425 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah theremin has got elliott, that's what reminded me < 1310339898 449316 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, elliott has the theremin and the theremin has got him, are they in a relation of mutual ownership? < 1310339905 454695 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! < 1310339914 81907 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a lovely idea < 1310339954 331056 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229129181.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a degenerated cocktagon < 1310339959 164004 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is like having a cat. < 1310340012 691820 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1310340137 450064 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_tk-XrXFHo < 1310340213 634659 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the way the cats, when confronted with a new thing, try to eat it. < 1310340231 129976 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is essentially what a world run by cats would be like, < 1310340247 816825 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They would invent the wheel and then eat it. < 1310340251 525740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a good way to handle problems. < 1310340253 496171 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, he owns both cats and a theremin, that must make some complicated ownership graphs < 1310340256 426730 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat massage < 1310340265 892613 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :major whisker watch alert < 1310340274 501749 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :invent massage and then eat it < 1310340275 389377 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it just becomes a complete graph where everyone/thing owns everyone/thing else < 1310340283 56373 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, please inform olsner that you cannot have very complicated graphs with only three nodes. < 1310340295 56567 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: did you count the cats? < 1310340295 405426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can if the connections get knotted < 1310340318 671147 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make at least up to K5 based only on that video, assuming an unshown human owner < 1310340335 868826 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, oh OK. < 1310340345 668659 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also *another cat* added since the video was filmed < 1310340348 394659 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE ARE ONLY TWO DIFFERENT CONNECTED UNDIRECTED GRAPHS WITH 3 NODES MISTER OLSNER < 1310340351 375652 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1310340356 216997 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of them is extremely complicated < 1310340376 515588 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: the graph is directed though < 1310340385 792426 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, it's almost as mysterious as cDonald's Theorem. < 1310340386 285064 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah < 1310340414 440139 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cats and a theremin :D < 1310340418 289374 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm gonna watch that! < 1310340438 951072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa < 1310340439 113242 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps the classification of these graphs could provide crucial insights into it. < 1310340439 476988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys < 1310340442 629474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if cDonald's theorem < 1310340444 848515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :was a graph < 1310340448 347552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with only one node < 1310340459 273426 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY GOD < 1310340474 587323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :connecting back into itself in a manner bordering on the circuitous < 1310340479 331245 :DocHerrings!~DocHerrin@pool-71-246-79-37.bltmmd.east.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ho hum. Making a efficient implementation of /// is lisp is kinda fun. < 1310340484 10228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sort of... one-element tangle. < 1310340488 35457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a circale. < 1310340537 198662 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1310340553 48250 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww < 1310340554 186506 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait elliott we need to make sure that oklofok understands cDonald's theorem. < 1310340557 933018 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, K5 is an undirected complete graph of 5 nodes, I wonder what the standard name is for the corresponding directed graph < 1310340570 521071 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's the one I actually meant) < 1310340588 308035 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno what cdonald's theorem is :\ < 1310340597 400721 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj2NOTanzWI < 1310340598 132488 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i can check if i understand it < 1310340604 19988 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Familiarise yourself with this material. < 1310340624 571733 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cats are sooooooooo cute :D < 1310340740 24780 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229129181.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1310340783 795978 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :45000000000 => 45000000001 BING < 1310340791 334432 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :classic < 1310340799 176792 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is only the beginning. < 1310340806 121753 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the ? < 1310340817 997764 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: not proven to exist and be a number yet, obviously < 1310341022 703346 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1310341041 607896 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cdonald's theorem is therefrom < 1310341048 647742 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps i should've guessed. < 1310341057 76278 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1310341222 213432 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my ... cats that play the theremin :/ irresistable < 1310341309 708474 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cats are so cute :DSDSDDS < 1310341459 572926 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229129181.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1310341547 789522 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater__: aren't cats cute? < 1310341557 417710 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think cats are cute :D < 1310341575 783108 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229129181.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill all cats < 1310341606 320699 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229129181.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST KIDDING!! kitties are cute. < 1310341652 209693 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh killall cat < 1310341653 70420 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: no process found < 1310341697 286014 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think cats are not cute, they just *look* cute as an adaptation to a world where looking cute brings them food < 1310341704 185453 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229129181.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, cat is a substantial part of my GNU/Linux kernel quine < 1310341729 225493 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i have my energy drink in a can < 1310341732 564042 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the can is frozen < 1310341755 523840 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i opened it just enough for stuff to slowly spill out through the invisible hole < 1310341766 811996 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :genious really < 1310341767 957355 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229129181.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yah? cute? say that to satan cat http://www.inquisitr.com/26619/satan-cat/ < 1310341797 655204 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with drinks is they are homogenous, why not have like compartments in the can < 1310341808 279971 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229129181.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what for < 1310341839 400615 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you know, many drinks in one < 1310341844 177037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:45:29: yeah, after thinking about it, it obviously wouldn't work with Haskell's type system. < 1310341850 439456 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :separated by these weird little bubbly compartments < 1310341851 142282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: see Data.Data, Data.Typeable < 1310341852 526415 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229129181.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, mix the drink and put it in the can < 1310341854 290283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a syb type thing < 1310341857 117266 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229129181.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple drinks in one. < 1310341865 67721 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229129181.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively use fluids that don't mix < 1310341870 705923 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229129181.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :like say... oil and water < 1310341883 805051 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229129181.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure you'd enjoy that wouldn't you WOULDN'T YOU < 1310341900 148333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:04:01: OK, vaguely interesting BF variant: if you delete [ (and instead have all loops go back to the start of the program), is it still TC? < 1310341904 12164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, all loops terminate immediately < 1310341938 883750 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater__: mixing drinks together is like taking all of mozart's works and listening to all of them at once < 1310341962 698997 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: ... which is why drinks are usually sold in individual containers < 1310341972 838167 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in general a drink - and most foods - are kind like taking a song and then just taking the average of the notes and listening to it for three minutes. < 1310341977 308539 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the point of making containers with subcontainers in them? < 1310341977 488085 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229129181.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, how did you know my hobby < 1310342006 111553 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229129181.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :simultaneous parallel audition is the best < 1310342010 246595 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: the point is you don't have to be the composer yourself < 1310342020 436362 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not everyone knows what sequences of drinks taste the best < 1310342087 362587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:55:42: Madk? < 1310342087 537265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:55:46: me < 1310342087 699348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:55:52: that is my alias < 1310342087 699584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:55:58: Wow, I'm surprised you got anything but a steely reception here. < 1310342087 699689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just going to be painful < 1310342090 174959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :prediction of the next few lines < 1310342094 473279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : YOU SEE WE ALL HATE YOU ESPECIALLY ME < 1310342096 47188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : GO AWAY < 1310342153 445942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:58:41: I mean, you'd hardly let a Nazi off because most of the people he killed weren't even Jews. < 1310342153 646758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:58:50: maybe you wouldn;t < 1310342153 808880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"but _I_ would" < 1310342154 845912 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :drinks should come in long long pipes that drip liquid at varying speeds, and you shouldn't just casually taste to them, you should really try to understand what the artist (the canposer?) was trying to convey when making the drinkdrink < 1310342165 369994 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-drink < 1310342169 780576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: do you have a newslatter < 1310342194 60541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: also when is the National Museum of Modern Drinks opening < 1310342202 37447 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: ok, this idea is making a lot of sense to me < 1310342237 896747 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I would be too lazy to make it work < 1310342268 167824 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care about canposers conveying ideas, I care about drinking something that tastes good < 1310342274 53045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:02:37: 478) The interpreter uses an unbounded tape size, but due to technical limitations will stop being unbounded if the tap size reaches 2^63 cells. < 1310342274 402029 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is still great :D < 1310342281 604468 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well you know i'm a genius. anyway i like how food works tho, because it has both the element of composing and choice, it's kind of like an rpg really < 1310342283 704112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: everything is art, but everything isn't art by default obviously < 1310342287 558529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to make things art < 1310342290 718214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok's next project < 1310342294 432272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the shitting museum < 1310342304 917363 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: woah, you have to make art art? yourself? < 1310342314 221365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: no. oklofok does it for you < 1310342367 671695 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are the best Free-software ARM emulators? < 1310342368 38039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote mixing drinks together is like taking all of mozart's works and listening to all of them at once and in general a drink - and most foods - are kind like taking a song and then just taking the average of the notes and listening to it for three minutes. olsner: the point is you don't have to be the composer yourself not everyone knows what sequences of drinks taste the best < 1310342369 280406 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :495) mixing drinks together is like taking all of mozart's works and listening to all of them at once and in general a drink - and most foods - are kind like taking a song and then just taking the average of the notes and listening to it for three minutes. olsner: the point is you don't have to < 1310342376 111193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote drinks should come in long long pipes that drip liquid at varying speeds, and you shouldn't just casually taste to them, you should really try to understand what the artist (the canposer?) was trying to convey when making the drink olsner: well you know i'm a genius. anyway i like how food works tho, because it has both the element of composing and choice, it's kind of like an rpg really < 1310342376 957465 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :496) drinks should come in long long pipes that drip liquid at varying speeds, and you shouldn't just casually taste to them, you should really try to understand what the artist (the canposer?) was trying to convey when making the drink olsner: well you know i'm a genius. anyway i like how food works tho, < 1310342382 495149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :best two part quote