< 1311552060 977036 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone points out that emma watson pic probably photoshopped < 1311552069 982245 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it obvious < 1311552236 325386 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the conclusion i have reached is that religions can't make any claims which are beyond question and still have anything to do with them being religions < 1311552242 82162 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have thought of a few more things about the algorithm I was having problems with recently. < 1311552274 210186 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words, to 'force' a conversion you have to distort the truth somehow < 1311552305 866929 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have "A[B]C", then maybe you can deal with "AB" and "AC" separately and then figure out if there is combined way of results like that < 1311552335 974001 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the result of "A" must agree in the final output < 1311552381 252261 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: some people are gullible or think badly < 1311552424 544947 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yup.. in addition, many people are manipulative and opportunistic < 1311552440 406649 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have "YZ" but "Y" and "Z" has no words shared in them (such as "-a-a-a-a-a-b-b-b-b-b-a-a-c-c-c-c-c-d-d-d-d-d-c-c-c") then you can treat them separately; I don't know if this helps though. < 1311552465 153419 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: parents < 1311552491 247358 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1311552525 266647 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: this reminds me of a comment i found on godel's lost letter today: "Buddhism discourages insistence (執著). A common pitfall is to insist on being non-insist." < 1311552534 103563 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there is a word that can only appear once, then possibly it can be ignored. < 1311552556 949731 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in fact i thought of you while reading it, since i had the impression you were something like a buddhist) < 1311552585 179091 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I have read something like that. < 1311552618 130251 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://rjlipton.wordpress.com/2011/07/23/self-defeating-sentences/#comment-12512) < 1311552749 279479 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the problem with dealing with AB and AC separately is that the combined cost is essentially A+B+C, meaning that the optimal choice for A might be different in AB, AC and A[B]C < 1311552763 767925 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this reminds me of subset sum and that kind of problem < 1311552808 701810 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might lead to a way of proving it NP-complete, perhaps < 1311552818 142282 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes now I can see that too. What is subset sum and that kind of problem? < 1311552857 112354 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe hamiltonian circuit stuff as well < 1311552871 431226 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :any NP-complete problem which requires summing things, i guess < 1311552887 206188 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait not hamiltonian < 1311552892 13689 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is hamiltonian circuit stuff? I don't know much about these kind of things. I do not have much experience with it. < 1311552892 86460 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :traveling salesman < 1311552901 276604 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i hanged out with them.. i never admitted to being one though < 1311552901 952878 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1311552908 367948 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(online) < 1311552924 34484 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can look in Wikipedia some things < 1311552943 502739 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: traveling salesman is the problem where you have a map (really graph) with distances between "cities" and you want to find the shortest path which passes through all of them < 1311552948 628672 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i met this one buddhist who was actually quite wise.. < 1311553019 374739 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learned to approach buddhism with a wikipedia mindset. < 1311553030 323753 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes the traveling salesman is one I have heard of, and yes I know what that is. (I don't know much else about it, except that one cover of mathNEWS joked about finding a O(1) solution (which is, shooting them).) < 1311553044 903310 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taking each piece of "text" which comes to me and wondering what it's source is. < 1311553099 170662 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ok as an example.. as an example < 1311553109 505931 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :take the bible.. there is no abstract bible. < 1311553115 910022 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :only instances called bibles < 1311553116 740853 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh i realized something, it is not fixed which names have to printed inside each [ ] is it. so you can move printing things across the brackets... < 1311553122 315871 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to be < 1311553136 292655 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes it even more complicated < 1311553139 399696 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :each bible was published somewhere.. edited by someone.. liable to errors by that publisher and that editor < 1311553149 992187 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Moving things across brackets is not allowed. < 1311553191 188884 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unless it is only temporary in order to help with the algorithm) < 1311553241 777318 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1311553258 993683 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I gradually start to see things this way I started gradually dismissing buddhism etc. attacking it with loud rants. < 1311553281 275301 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it doesn't look to be the same problem as hamiltonian or traveling salesmen, I don't know whether there can be similar ideas or not. < 1311553291 719584 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then slowly i started to see that some of the people i thought were friends there were actually just manipulative like rotten apples. < 1311553293 345174 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes iirc buddhism has some trouble tracing back its sources < 1311553313 712270 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hehe. indeed < 1311553333 351807 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :islam tried very hard to avoid that, by getting things written down as soon as possible. but of course you still have to believe in muhammed for it. < 1311553360 800924 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick is to just force everything to follow the rules of logic < 1311553384 616311 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's called science < 1311553395 554516 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i think muhammed criticized older religions for being unreliable in that way, so his followers had particular reason) < 1311553421 511664 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol muhammad was all "let's make this one LAST, guys" < 1311553428 280397 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1311553487 657856 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :when arguing iwth muslims my attack tends to be of the form "suppose that allah lied to the prophet, or mixed truths with lies" < 1311553522 298518 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they tend to base their case on how the quran contains truths < 1311553538 886817 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't allah lie as a rule < 1311553541 23420 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not lie i mean < 1311553599 719673 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its also worth mentioning that apparently the name means "true god" and yet it is never translated as such which is curious < 1311553621 710226 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and im sure theres some psychological tactic to giving him 100 names < 1311553664 379812 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : yes iirc buddhism has some trouble tracing back its sources <-- on the other hand, Buddhism iirc clearly states that the stories are based on what they heard for a few generations. < 1311553682 567227 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but religions as we see them today are set up like puzzles for the houdini to wrestle his way out of < 1311553693 797087 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so they kind of avoid the problem by explicitly stating that it may or may not be a perfect account < 1311553708 425352 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not a perfect account :D < 1311553722 80806 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :those who say it is are naive < 1311553724 258841 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, exactly. And it openly admits it < 1311553729 206615 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, that is my point < 1311553742 852661 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there other Wikipedia articles that have things that can have some things related to my problem? < 1311553808 12464 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: yeah... but then... you come at buddhism thinking, well is there anything of value in this if i try to have a mindset of seeking truths rather than trying to abide by some community's sense of oblivion < 1311553829 359968 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, hm? I'm not sure I understand what you meant there < 1311553846 135137 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. i'll try and use proper english < 1311553862 883652 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, don't worry, it is not my native language anyway ;P < 1311553897 218370 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh what i said makes no sense. that is true < 1311553911 25260 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, not just me then < 1311553953 941596 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, there are certain properties common to religions.. a certain heavyness. creating obedience, followers, worshippers. blind faith < 1311553977 87221 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, not blind faith when it comes to Buddhism though < 1311554003 275268 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, I believe one of the books openly state that you should question everything. < 1311554006 686285 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1311554010 447786 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even buddhism has this dominating presence < 1311554010 919415 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes nobody ever corrupts religious texts < 1311554013 663554 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a monolith < 1311554027 692086 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck this meme of buddhism being this perfect beautiful religion of peaceful nice people NOT LIKE THOSE OTHER RELIGIONS < 1311554031 109734 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a very subtle aspect of religions, almost unspoken. < 1311554037 187175 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a Buddhist myself, but... looking at the major religions it seems the one *least* out of touch with the modern world < 1311554050 198044 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm perfectly happy to not believe in a religion. < 1311554064 560778 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha < 1311554066 839735 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha ha ha ha ha < 1311554070 881958 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha ha ah ah h ha ha haha ha ha ha ha haha < 1311554076 818262 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, come on, tell us what is so funny < 1311554079 884779 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did < 1311554087 97250 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: maybe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NP-complete_problems unfortunately it has many non-existent links < 1311554110 408817 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a certain someone didnt fuck a certain meme when eliot told -- to < 1311554112 167081 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: the thing is though. simply including a few lines to say "you should question everything" doesn't entirely outweigh the reality-warping presence of a religion. < 1311554118 2237 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I never claimed buddism was perfect... But as far as I know there has been no holy wars in its name for example. < 1311554122 345883 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is hihgly funyn < 1311554142 623369 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, that is true < 1311554143 452807 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a valuable statement yeah. < 1311554148 769933 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any holy wars in zoroastrianism's name < 1311554159 230897 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1311554160 989434 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I never heard of that religion even < 1311554164 884764 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1311554171 469458 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh.. it's such a statement can be used to lure people into a sense of security < 1311554193 853636 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then it gets very confusing as to where to proceed next < 1311554247 400 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :with religion, there is this tendancy to let the mind relax and just believe any nonsense as if under hypnosis < 1311554268 748735 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, good point indeed. But why not follow the advice of putting the religion itself under scrutiny. If you feel you need a religion at all. < 1311554282 991951 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :some do, some don't < 1311554300 897491 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ones who do tend to be abrasive and cynical < 1311554308 484491 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :do what? < 1311554309 63819 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but good hearted < 1311554312 219460 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :need religion? < 1311554320 896858 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :some do put it under scrutiny < 1311554322 638824 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1311554333 320603 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bets Vorpal thinks buddhism doesn't have a hell either
< 1311554349 903397 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i abrasive and cynical < 1311554352 559715 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well, that depends on how you define it. < 1311554357 318953 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, it does not: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_(Buddhism) < 1311554361 366507 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth. < 1311554407 877557 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, sorry you misunderstood it. I was talking about the bit about "thinks" here. I never considered it in fact. I haven't studied the religion in depth, and never claimed to have done that. < 1311554418 959769 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1311554444 602448 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: so that last point i was making... its really about learning in general.. < 1311554453 155553 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, very deep < 1311554453 328145 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres that point where a religion can't tell you < 1311554458 143986 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1311554461 147458 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1311554463 990533 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats the clincher < 1311554479 504126 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that whole idea about leading a horse to water < 1311554495 496497 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, so pick up a few good suggestions about how to behave towards other people, and then ditch the rest of the religion :P < 1311554504 978304 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.. its not like that < 1311554535 750738 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is something which a person has to bring about on their own "like a horse drinking from the water" < 1311554553 799117 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and.. i don't know what it is < 1311554571 659160 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, err what? < 1311554589 466277 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a person has an innate sense of how to seek truths < 1311554602 912556 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, a religion sort of constrains them < 1311554613 319656 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, You completely lost me now < 1311554652 924868 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm.. i just lost me too < 1311554661 376821 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand completely >:D < 1311554685 735260 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, really? < 1311554719 580348 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may be exaggerating a bit < 1311554729 862703 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :to deny everything in a religion is going too far < 1311554733 651490 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can contain truths < 1311554748 41170 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes indeed. < 1311554751 63201 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :to deny nothing in a religion is not going far enough < 1311554759 613147 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1311554772 774678 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :buddhism also references "discrimination" < 1311554791 704256 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, I was not suggesting you would explicitly deny it. Just leave it as "unknown" until further notice. Tri-state logic or something (okay, not quite that) < 1311554811 29326 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh.. basically........ < 1311554817 744076 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex_: why're you trying to exile coppro < 1311554823 393556 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is never any benefit from playing dumb when seeking truth < 1311554836 952228 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like.. pulling punches.. compromising.. making allowances.. < 1311554850 454146 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :never say never < 1311554903 284930 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and religions expect you to just make all these compromises for the benefit of said religion < 1311554951 244278 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is you seeking truth.. < 1311554961 900723 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That list of NP-complete problems doesn't seem to help me much, especially since most are linked to nonexisting files < 1311554982 267871 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so.. when thinking about a religion a suggestion comes to you "I should deny the evidence before me because my religion says so" < 1311555085 262680 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no room for white lies in the search for truth < 1311555097 184810 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there are other ways to change my problem to equivalent ones < 1311555214 764332 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well the usual way to prove a problem NP-complete is to make a reduction from an NP-complete problem to it, similar to turing-completeness (except the reduction must be polynomial time, not just computable) < 1311555283 136409 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I used to wish there was an add-on term to TC that included being able to do things with the same time complexity, but then I realised that UTMs are slower than real-world computers < 1311555312 696350 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what the correct model is; things with bignum addresses tend to have constant-time natural arithmetic, which is, of course, impossible < 1311555321 738669 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, "of course") < 1311555352 253736 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah anything finer grained than polynomial tends to depend on model < 1311555400 961172 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this leads up to asking if anything of value is left in buddhism if you approach it stoically, to never say "I should deny the evidence before me because my religion says so" < 1311555403 862921 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course some models like minsky machines don't even get that) < 1311555428 942149 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :to never say "I should subvert my search for truth for some other purpose" < 1311555433 297817 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: which is upsetting... It seems "obvious" that you can't do addition in constant time, but explaining why tends to invoke a real-world-esque assembly language doing a bignum addition loop < 1311555435 133350 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is ridiculous < 1311555441 451507 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK, I think I understand what you mean (a little bit, at least). I don't know if that can solve my problem, though, or how it can do so. < 1311555451 80503 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does our universe have these apparent time complexities? < 1311555468 928614 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :to never say "I should subvert my search for truth because it makes buddhism look bad.. or it offends someone.. or it brings up things I can't face" < 1311555481 773637 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311555562 779093 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can always suppose you were the only human left alive.. and try and put yourself in those shoes and wonder which artifacts of religion would persist in your mind despite all the people who care being dead < 1311555570 103168 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, there's a Wikipedia article on [[Essjay controversy]] < 1311555580 18266 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311555610 629896 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Everything would persist in your mind, you can't "undo" growing up in an environment < 1311555617 352237 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1311555719 390647 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, why wouldn't it? < 1311555727 795953 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: ? < 1311555735 723857 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott_> wow, there's a Wikipedia article on [[Essjay controversy]] < 1311555760 863814 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I forgot that it received significant media coverage < 1311555769 363198 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm unsure how objective Wikipedia can be on that topic :P < 1311555818 341370 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's sad that the Code Generation section is entirely missing links < 1311555881 61767 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: link? < 1311555883 286582 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to context < 1311555916 218561 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NP-complete_problems#Code_generation < 1311555945 107073 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I can see that. < 1311555953 877612 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ugh :/ < 1311555954 21673 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That isn't the only one. < 1311555967 550975 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(reminding that i am not a buddhist before i continue) i think there is a certain error where people invent conceptions to explain religions. < 1311555971 204741 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Wikipedia tends to lack a lot of in-depth material on CS, I notice; I suspect with a lot of other topics, too < 1311555971 984349 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are other problems entirely missing links < 1311556014 19387 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as a god goes, if such a god exists you won't find him by trying to imagine a subset of the universe and giving it a booming voice < 1311556033 91463 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there is a god, you don't have to imagine it right? its not about imagining < 1311556044 717541 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just an interpretation of what you see < 1311556051 303419 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: see pantheism < 1311556068 228416 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :god as the universe, right? < 1311556075 469162 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: /msg < 1311556076 865950 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: yes < 1311556102 606750 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric : suppose i suddenly found a box .. i could spend a week imagining what is inside it < 1311556128 963178 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good imagination < 1311556139 405346 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably get bored after a few minutes < 1311556143 152327 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then someone will force you to look inside and now the state is changed due to observing it < 1311556152 399653 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i could iterate through all the items in my bedroom < 1311556164 698476 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and suppose that similar items existed in the box < 1311556226 635937 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so imagination is not a very accurate tool < 1311556265 340575 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've gone confusing again < 1311556279 788146 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well suppose the universe is the box < 1311556284 342108 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good supposition < 1311556296 670696 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the reason you can't see is because its too big instead of too small < 1311556331 137101 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if you imagine a god it might be outside of this box, or inside of it, (or both, or neither... ) < 1311556340 28776 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it might be the box < 1311556361 302975 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe its an analogy which can't go far enough < 1311556367 72529 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats a god................................ < 1311556378 892978 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My opponent's plan doesn't go too far enough! < 1311556391 564237 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :congratulations < 1311556414 277237 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does your plan go too far enough < 1311556422 662773 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not entirely atheist.. im more agnostic i think < 1311556443 343847 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i'm scared enough i'll pray < 1311556516 435756 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then theres this idea of the economics of, on the one hand, a group proliferating the idea of a god, and on the other hand people deriving a sense of security from it < 1311556560 678349 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :praying in times of stress doesn't stop you being an atheist, it just means you're being irrational at the time (as far as an atheist is concerned) < 1311556564 875264 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a supply demand idea of: if people like me didn't thump bibles all day you wouldn't have any god to take refuge with in times of stress < 1311556572 403726 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be kind of cool if atheism made you ALL RATIONAL ALL THE TIME < 1311556593 125327 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, atheism is a bit of a religion like that.. < 1311556609 90121 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, it is? < 1311556609 181152 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is sticking to a hard line for its own sake rather than examining evidence on it's own merits < 1311556628 937057 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, that's a corruption of the term by idiots who ~just deconverted~ and religious people < 1311556645 256631 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I wonder if anyone else can help me, too, with my problem? < 1311556648 641394 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to trot out a cliché but accurate example, you wouldn't give credence to the idea of Russell's teapot, either < 1311556664 150622 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any "atheist" who thinks they can "disprove" god or that it's LOGICALLY false or whatever is just an idiot < 1311556680 512053 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, doesn't that depend on the definition of "god" in question? < 1311556715 192606 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the idea of prayer as being rational or irrational.. itself may be irrational :P < 1311556718 254005 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: plz no, stop before you show ur prolog < 1311556740 779412 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: well from an atheist perspective, thinking prayer will produce results because a god will answer it is obviously irrational < 1311556763 912283 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prayer could produce the "result" of calming you down, even from an atheist perspective < 1311556817 365399 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well duh. that still requires suspension of disbelief, which stress happily provides < 1311556866 917266 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i see < 1311556882 903667 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :since prayer is worked by imagining a thing being prayed to < 1311556915 678534 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is no doubt due to millenia of this and that < 1311556956 899365 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :one day maybe the target of prayers won't be a self-interested entiyt < 1311556999 136778 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by that < 1311557023 879159 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :prayer is a transitive verb < 1311557028 772496 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well prayer like any ritual could act as stress relief. < 1311557036 154234 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would not call it prayer if you don't expect it to "do" anything, though < 1311557041 649752 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more just... a ritual < 1311557049 449599 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean "one day maybe people will pray to something that isn't a self-interested entity" or "maybe one day the things to which people pray won't be so self-interested" < 1311557099 137480 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe one day prayer won't be a covert taboo topic evoking religious imagery < 1311557100 314639 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1311557106 275187 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like that second one monqy < 1311557108 559787 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: prayer is taboo? < 1311557116 974967 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prayer is like the least taboo thing, at least in some places < 1311557120 729176 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that we are all conditioned to pray to pre-defined gods is clear < 1311557126 489537 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is.. if we pray < 1311557133 978174 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's official, I'm a fucking idiot. I was pressing the power button on my case because I was convinced that my case falli't attached to anything. I was wrong < 1311557143 270678 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*falling apart meant it < 1311557147 359195 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :meant it wasn't < 1311557198 263322 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :im starting to lose a grip on reality in my posts now < 1311557243 180030 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :pray to the flying spaghetti monster < 1311557245 520615 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1311557297 469882 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ;-; < 1311557311 936119 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh what i mean is < 1311557317 997550 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.. fsm is a constructed god < 1311557354 591488 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know the story of all the gods etc < 1311557375 700314 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but fsm is certainly a constructed god just as scientology is a constructed religion < 1311557387 986853 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how esperanto and lojban are constructed languages < 1311557424 79456 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is the word esoteric < 1311557430 287672 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric vs constructed < 1311557456 508728 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scientology is not a proper religion, I think < 1311557464 310499 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :proper? < 1311557503 726192 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :proper? < 1311557516 729780 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a cult, but cult is just a word for religions that do things people don't like < 1311557529 691416 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is more like someone who try to earn money and keep everything secret and so on they have reports. < 1311557539 253666 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Church of Scientology(tm) is obviously a completely abhorrent organisation, objectively, but I don't see how you can dismiss the beliefs any more than another religion < 1311557548 192496 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are freezoners who practice the beliefs outside of the CoS. < 1311557576 845228 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I don't know about the freezoners. But maybe they are a more proper religion; I don't know. < 1311557595 852638 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: religion =/= religious organisation < 1311557612 254337 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scientology-ala-CoS and Scientology-ala-free-zoners may be sects but they're the same religion < 1311557627 119975 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1311557722 377020 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :linguistically "the truth" implies only one truth < 1311557775 951790 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the truth is the set of all things that are true < 1311557787 371951 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you're proposing logical relativism < 1311557795 915604 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :would the truth explain collective conciousness? < 1311557806 670403 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :define "collective consciousness" :P < 1311557907 266765 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :each individual probably has memories of being conscious in the past < 1311557915 542174 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :former instances of their conciousness < 1311557934 333725 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus can potentially anticipate future instances of their conciousness < 1311557970 688445 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can also try to guess what anothers conciousness is like.. but never really know < 1311558001 751969 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so taking each individuals conciousness as a specific thing, one can imagine a generalization of conciousness < 1311558010 676713 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a visual field for example.. < 1311558059 519456 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all these visual fields.. < 1311558070 815773 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric : each individual probably has memories of being conscious in the past < 1311558073 287905 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't seem to occupy a known space < 1311558074 336020 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what makes you say this? < 1311558080 449246 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at the same time, I don't see how this relates to "the truth" < 1311558096 69666 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :_everything_ relates to "the truth" :P < 1311558106 285281 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that is not very helpful < 1311558121 291522 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does the truth need to explain collective consciousness? < 1311558126 418986 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think pure consciousness would have a visual field for sure. It might be related but I think it is not the same thing at all < 1311558129 816231 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and why does the truth have any obligations at all?) < 1311558142 455888 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i am throwing a few fallacies around < 1311558146 586513 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to catch myself.. < 1311558167 922683 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that i don't know what the truth is i can't assume everything relates to it] < 1311558172 394738 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yada yada < 1311558178 299833 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :My ideas of consciousness are very different and incomplete (mostly because I don't know everything). < 1311558224 686383 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliot: good points. < 1311558239 586188 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :answer is cos it would make life easier < 1311558274 686195 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be nice to make some general rule < 1311558286 712392 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: btw, i don't get an annoying reminder someone mentioned me if you misspell my name ;-) you could try tab completion ("ell" should do it) < 1311558293 508467 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so I might not reply) < 1311558354 700801 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if my client has name completion < 1311558376 978679 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1311558386 962155 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one, every client does; two, you're using XChat < 1311558449 389799 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1311558456 722906 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311558472 721902 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i hit tab, it jumps around the GUI < 1311558476 316191 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think every client does. < 1311558490 19102 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just i don't know how to use the client < 1311558493 724620 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe some have it optional or use different keys, too. < 1311558535 699814 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: you need to type in a name prefix first < 1311558558 146423 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you can use a macro if it would help better, I don't know... < 1311558559 951914 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see < 1311558565 937949 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to use 3 characters < 1311558573 404676 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :e l l tab < 1311558604 152900 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :why didn't you just say ""ell" " < 1311558616 166467 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1311558627 326027 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe "el" is ambiguous because "Elizacat" also has that prefix (and names are case insensitive in IRC) < 1311558641 114209 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assumed i could get away with just typing 1 letter < 1311558645 951102 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "e tab" < 1311558653 942583 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i read "ell" as "L" < 1311558657 981077 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um e works for me < 1311558668 224155 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :completes EgoBot, though < 1311558689 628319 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to Settings → Preferences → Input box → Nick Completion and changes sorting to last spoken
< 1311558696 192382 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in XChat) < 1311558702 463763 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may want to check that configuration too, itidus20 < 1311558716 300329 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1311558737 905353 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I do know, is, there is different tab completion, such as Windows and GNU have two different kind of tab completion. Windows completes the entire text and pushing tab again completes a different filename, with GNU it only completes the unambiguous part and then if you push again, it list all of them. < 1311558782 403081 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot: test < 1311558783 918459 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1311558789 255933 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnarly < 1311558806 988549 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: test2 < 1311558815 96297 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: * elliott_ goes to Settings → Preferences → Input box → Nick Completion and changes sorting to last spoken < 1311558815 784775 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1311558823 936822 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it'll always be me because i never shut up < 1311558829 988066 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if they can change tab completion option between Windows-style and GNU-style < 1311558852 182232 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: last spoken humm < 1311558856 883003 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1311558875 995002 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :go figure < 1311558904 607373 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot: test < 1311558909 883539 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: test < 1311558925 513924 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh it'll do < 1311558929 763682 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its pretty good < 1311558962 500727 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it doesn't actually start registering when people speak before you set the option < 1311558967 833325 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wild theory) < 1311558981 99094 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its fine now < 1311558986 586186 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its good enough -- beter than be fore < 1311559141 146407 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160123.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311559333 203677 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1311559657 761380 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the neighbors dog is in hear < 1311559659 325338 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :heat < 1311559667 133424 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :my dogs freaking out again < 1311559680 794771 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :rips the damn fence palings in 2 to see the neighbours dog < 1311559919 448557 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311559991 293495 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1311560108 291424 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1311562649 922778 :derrik!~xix@128-74-131-46.internet.emt.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1311563264 597711 :jcp|1!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311563306 919856 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311563362 48645 :jcp|other!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1311563631 346936 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311563816 803500 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311563910 574647 :jcp|other!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311563937 187503 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311564006 5650 :jcp|1!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1311564031 242045 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311564042 31130 :derrik!~xix@128-74-131-46.internet.emt.ee QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311564442 5316 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311564782 310088 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311564856 897361 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311564901 400082 :jcp|other!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1311564961 304023 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311565281 879941 :javawizard!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311566516 73322 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1311567531 68111 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1311567533 365653 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why hi < 1311567568 517710 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311567625 564575 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1311568637 813488 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311569082 239824 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh I'm Good < 1311569089 913090 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oig < 1311569094 259588 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Randomly checked MSPA, there's an update < 1311569108 402854 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Ok, so I'm not good, I've had a bunch of misses like that.) < 1311569113 262629 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Is this like gambling?) < 1311569491 293517 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311569584 222073 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311569642 968185 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may just give up on Chicken Scheme < 1311569688 486542 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with the "there's an egg for that" Scheme? < 1311569771 808341 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing, Sgeo_ just always chickens out < 1311569799 187669 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats himself -----###
< 1311569818 843206 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I can't get eggs to install, and the fact that on the mailing list, a regular was unable to get the egg I wanted to install to install for himself, for a different reason, is not encouraging < 1311569823 76532 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I didn't even need to groan. < 1311569837 530063 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the eggs are a bit... rotten. < 1311570248 831160 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^ul (fizzie: PUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSH)S < 1311570248 883734 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: PUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSH < 1311570249 401895 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: would the second statement you said allow for 0 or more instances of the " pc" of an acceptable size. :p < 1311570250 783005 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :god dammit, fungot < 1311570251 135486 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: how would that work ( assuming you did everything right, which is deliminated by dollar signs. how can ( with a minimum amount of writing < 1311570436 213499 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311571158 526641 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Aaaah*. < 1311571190 46278 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having meaningful, pleasant IRL social interactions is a fairly nice feeling. < 1311571230 858621 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1311571230 911216 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1311571417 814112 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yay < 1311572027 952849 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :<netdaemon> for instance, pass a hash to a procedure directly < 1311572033 232787 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : the keys and values get mixed up < 1311572033 394176 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : wat is that < 1311572040 772981 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :<netdaemon> Sgeo_, the keys and values you set before you pass, are different inside what you pass it to < 1311572049 184344 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : in other words foo = 1, bar = 2, could end up foo = 2, bar = 1 < 1311572049 236626 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : you *have* to pass it by reference < 1311572049 236713 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : or you get that crap < 1311572052 244507 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[About Perl] < 1311572078 361402 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can someone explain what's going on with that? If that's really as he said, that's... nonsensical < 1311572352 555104 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, if it is how it says, why would it be like that? < 1311572375 970634 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I'm asking here < 1311572400 572984 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I don't know either. < 1311572438 515320 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's make something like a text adventure game: < 1311572440 72383 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Deck* < 1311572455 85554 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are on the deck of a navy ship. You can see the flags and sails from here. < 1311572485 481951 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the deck is the captain, the captain's brother, a bucket of fire, and some other sailors. < 1311572495 65230 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can go fore or starboard. < 1311572496 816528 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311572552 615174 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I split myself into multple selves and let one self ascend to godhood < 1311572565 277734 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are unable to. Try again. < 1311572566 883931 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311572624 429219 :JamezQ!~james@c-24-4-176-56.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311572636 219928 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Try again/Please try again/ < 1311572684 703386 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The excess seen by the Atlas team has reached a 2.8 sigma level of certainty. A three-sigma result means there is roughly a one in 1,000 chance that the result is attributable to some statistical quirk in the data." < 1311572692 514457 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I would phrase that like that < 1311572723 734192 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, doesn't matter < 1311572749 879160 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: I don't even know what the Atlas team is. < 1311572779 41158 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There are three kind of lies: normal lies, really bad lies, and statistics.) < 1311572779 830393 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14266358 < 1311572870 459372 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Why don't you try something else in my game? Something other than splitting yourself and godhood and so on.) < 1311572896 814867 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Examine bucket of fire < 1311572939 323370 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fire contains rags that were previously used for clothing but are now burnt and cannot be used. The fire is very low by now. < 1311572941 84181 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311572963 146097 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put hand in fire < 1311572974 836394 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I'm just being silly, not taking this game seriously < 1311573019 586465 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fire goes out quickly due to your hand wet. < 1311573021 281405 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311573038 675818 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Try something a bit less silly, perhaps.) < 1311573052 808282 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And, yes, I am also reading that BBC article) < 1311573053 576247 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I have a DM that won't let me die? < 1311573058 42810 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm going to try < 1311573060 141002 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION takes out a cell-shaded wind waker wand and changes the direction of the wind.
< 1311573061 772782 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I jump overboard < 1311573067 347889 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :just kidding < 1311573102 168779 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. You are now in the water. Your uniform is getting wet. < 1311573108 318284 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311573130 987286 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I exhale, put my head underwater, and take a few deep breaths < 1311573162 861485 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You try, but sink and drown before you are able. Now you are dead. You lose. < 1311573184 196396 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1311573189 9079 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: OK you are just kidding. Try something else. From the start. < 1311573212 369385 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok sorry < 1311573250 610166 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I go fore. < 1311573264 441833 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Center of Ship* < 1311573293 126890 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can see some cargo blocking the way any direction except aft and down. Nothing else is in here. < 1311573293 667766 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops.. i got confused.. ill go back to the deck < 1311573294 713272 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311573311 778280 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. Now you are back at the deck. < 1311573318 531774 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whistle blows. < 1311573332 819610 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being an experienced sailor, you can recognize that they want everyone on the deck by now. < 1311573339 512942 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: If you call sub(%foo) and %foo contains ("a" => 1, "b" => 2), it will push either "a", 1, "b", 2 or "b", 2, "a", 1 on the argument stack (@_) of the sub. So the order is not defined, but either way it will have keys and their corresponding values next to each other. And if you build a new hash with %bar = @_ inside the sub, then %bar will contain the same keys and values as %foo. < 1311573356 715248 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same things are on the deck as before, plus Also, and some other doppelgangers. < 1311573358 954250 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311573368 385337 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/doppelgangers/sailors/ < 1311573369 708150 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Examine captain. < 1311573378 188815 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Why did I write doppelgangers? That makes no sense.) < 1311573391 270810 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, he's supposedly not complaining about undefined order, just that keys and values don't stay associated < 1311573407 306340 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, he left, when he's next on, I'll ask for a concrete example < 1311573423 116279 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The captain of this ship is a man of average height and is wearing a captain's uniform. He is holding a spyglass. < 1311573425 599565 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311573467 33464 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talk to captain. (should i specify what i say?) < 1311573470 165949 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Well, that doesn't happen. < 1311573487 720838 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by the way i havent really played text adventure games... ive only heard of them) < 1311573491 859504 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ perl -e '%foo = ("a" => 1, "b" => 2); sub foo { print join(" ", @_), "\n"; } foo(%foo);' < 1311573492 31028 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 1 b 2 < 1311573492 461032 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The captain notices some pirate ships in the distance. You can see them now, too. < 1311573494 112348 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311573525 759947 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm < 1311573543 568600 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Should I try just using natural english?) < 1311573557 145333 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Do it if you want to. This is not a *real* text adventure game. < 1311573580 975947 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although an actual text adventure game could be written based on this and other things) < 1311573628 670057 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Examine self. < 1311573647 697299 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You look about the same as always, except that you are now wearing a guest uniform. < 1311573669 690696 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :After you do that, the captain looks throught he spyglass, notices something, and passes it to his brother. < 1311573671 344029 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311573769 797292 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talk to the captain again. < 1311573802 571285 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The captain told you he noticed something that is probably bad, on those pirate ships. Something bad will probably happen. < 1311573815 60582 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :After doing so, the captain's brother passes the spyglass to you. < 1311573816 498355 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311573830 782808 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Examine fire bucket. < 1311573853 551195 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bucket contains some old rags used for clothing, but are now burnt. The fire has gone out by now. < 1311573857 510923 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311573902 662320 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(brb) < 1311573919 170230 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-49.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1311573920 694339 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311573969 218510 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm < 1311573988 218435 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talk to sailors. < 1311574014 25478 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sailors are nervous of your presence and do not wish to talk to you right now. < 1311574015 742883 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311574055 806434 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ are / seem to be / < 1311574185 739192 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(does anyone else have any ideas?) < 1311574203 429308 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bah.. ill continue) < 1311574244 538247 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can always wait or check your inventory if you have nothing else to do.) < 1311574266 925776 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :check inventory < 1311574279 866621 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a guest uniform (being worn) and a rope. < 1311574289 768161 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311574330 412053 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1311574344 99246 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Request spyglass. < 1311574360 555715 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, sorry. Let me try again. < 1311574368 186160 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a guest uniform (being worn), a rope, and a spyglass. < 1311574374 946712 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You already have the spyglass, I just forgot) < 1311574376 702338 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311574383 410891 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at pirate ship with spyglass. < 1311574409 318820 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You look at the pirate ship. You can see some shaman waving their arms. You recognize it as some kind of summoning spell. < 1311574432 964005 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :As you do so, the water shakes a bit and hooks come up out of the water and get attached to the edge of the ship. < 1311574435 351391 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311574533 413935 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look around with the spyglass. < 1311574589 794381 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You notice nothing special. You can see the same things you have seen before. There are five pirate ships in the distance. < 1311574618 186481 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :After doing so, some kuo-toas[1] arrive and climb on the deck. < 1311574624 57737 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311574640 146913 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1] See D&D 3.5e Monster Manual for information. < 1311574705 246349 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speak to kuo-toa. < 1311574747 202803 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of answering, they try to throw a sticky rope at you. Luckily, they missed. < 1311574777 685571 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition, Also appears to transform into a gray featureless humanoid shape, still wearing the guest uniform, but also wielding a green sword. < 1311574803 713899 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The captain is wondering whether something should be done about this transformation, as well as about the attack. < 1311574805 347002 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311574887 667360 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kick kuo-toa. < 1311574936 755354 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You miss. One of the kuo-toa tries to attack you and this time you get hit by a sticky rope. One also tries to throw a rope at Also and manages to hit. Also tries to attack one of them with the green sword and hits, knocking one unconscious. < 1311574938 556177 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311575049 869583 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Throw rope at a concious kuo-toa < 1311575075 17985 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You try to take it but now it is stuck on your hand too. < 1311575081 57371 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311575096 665432 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can try again if you want, or do something else.) < 1311575126 516692 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i was being kind of stupid because obviously my regular piece of rope is not a weapon) < 1311575130 445923 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1311575140 720293 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hide behind Also
< 1311575150 523320 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correct. Your regular piece of rope is not a weapon. < 1311575154 261491 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are now hiding. < 1311575182 190497 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, you almost get hit by a cannon. < 1311575188 163033 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also hits one and kills one kuo-toa. < 1311575189 755775 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311575255 374954 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look around. < 1311575297 809956 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You notice the same things as before. < 1311575309 604713 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You accidentally dropped the spyglass and now you have to pay for it. < 1311575322 871727 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the kuo-toas are now trying to retreat back into the water. < 1311575338 281940 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Others are still trying to attack. < 1311575349 776565 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :One notices you, and attempts to attack you, and misses. < 1311575351 367393 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311575369 44722 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attack the kuo-toa. < 1311575374 310454 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^a < 1311575394 337199 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You miss. They try to attack you and slightly damage you. < 1311575409 815971 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, and some of the sailors, try to attack the other kuo-toas. < 1311575423 945140 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the sailors appear to be ensuring the cannons are ready to attack the other ships if it becomes necessary. < 1311575426 141629 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311575467 679182 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1311575510 2875 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attack a kuo-toa. < 1311575538 663925 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You tried again, and still missed. < 1311575562 686718 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Next time, you can try to stun them or cast a spell. You do have a few spells.) < 1311575565 515907 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311575617 68201 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :List my available spells. < 1311575624 744742 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless theres too many < 1311575647 959749 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1311575652 827230 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean.. < 1311575653 646226 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Frotz (makes an object emit light) < 1311575654 728660 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh < 1311575665 294454 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Erase (erases writing on an object) < 1311575666 511611 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can look em up with wiki < 1311575670 41340 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1311575676 949759 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no clue what spells i have :P < 1311575692 617874 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Affect Magical Aura (change the magic aura of something to appear to be something else) < 1311575700 284585 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Grease (makes the floor slippery) < 1311575710 816617 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :- True Seeing (see past illusions and other magic) < 1311575717 188805 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :End of spell list. < 1311575718 713235 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311575733 123570 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I will list one more: < 1311575754 598212 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Time Hop (makes an object vanish, and reappear in the same place in 30 seconds to 1 minute (you can select the duration)) < 1311575816 773321 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cast Grease. Ideally under my foes but i'll still do it if it'll affect me < 1311575847 923821 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. Some of the kuo-toas, as well as some of the sailors, as well as Also, all slip and fall down. < 1311575860 566141 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seem to be unaffected at the current moment. < 1311575862 143006 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311575878 453060 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cast True Seeing. < 1311575908 805483 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cast True Seeing. You notice nothing special. < 1311575917 916709 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the kuo-toas, some of the sailors, and Also, all get up. < 1311575933 905284 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of them attacks Also and misses. One attacks you and moderately damages you. < 1311575935 320650 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311575954 648831 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stun a kuo-toa, < 1311575974 6404 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. You manage to stun three of them at once. < 1311575997 722019 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also attacks one of the unstunned ones and hits. One of the kuo-toas attacks Also and slightly damages him. < 1311576007 592641 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody manages to attack you. < 1311576010 846848 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311576032 248285 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attack a stunned Kuo-toa < 1311576064 13363 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. You hit. He is now unconscious. < 1311576081 159244 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also attacks one of the unstunned ones and hits. One of the huo-toas attacks Also and slightly damages him. < 1311576085 779154 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rest retreat back into the water. < 1311576088 539171 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311576149 885864 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attack a stunned kuo-toa. < 1311576175 964637 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow you still missed. < 1311576177 666519 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311576207 298393 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stun kuo-toa. < 1311576242 145820 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of them are already either stunned, unconscious, or dead. Nothing happens, although some of them might be stunned for a longer duration due to this. < 1311576243 718385 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311576319 591951 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. < 1311576363 368202 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time passes. The captain's brother reveals a scroll case. < 1311576366 904913 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311576421 900313 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Examine the scroll case. < 1311576445 881108 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a plain scroll case one foot in length, and appears to be waterproof. < 1311576461 474691 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The captain's brother remarks that perhaps the pirates wanted this scroll case, and not the gold. < 1311576480 821327 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, he doesn't know how they could have known about this scroll case, since it was supposed to be a secret. < 1311576482 370751 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311576596 871585 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 NICK :oriaw < 1311576620 817896 :oriaw!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 NICK :derivector < 1311576621 781305 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :open the scroll case < 1311576682 353240 :derivector!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 NICK :azaq23 < 1311576687 326866 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not yours to open. It belongs to the king. < 1311576707 952422 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i play < 1311576725 881094 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1311576728 559598 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can stop here if you wish. Note that this is based on a scene from a D&D game I played and there is nothing else to do. Read it if you want to, including for a complete list of spells and my solutions) < 1311576740 190465 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 NICK :azaq23p < 1311576746 306307 :azaq23p!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 NICK :azaq23 < 1311576770 148576 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am pretty clueless about d & d... :P < 1311576792 22706 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean not entirely clueless but yeah < 1311576821 673025 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: That is OK. You might be able to understand some of it, since the main text (but not necessarily the foot notes or character sheets) are written in normal text. < 1311576833 924303 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tend to be so hesitant with these things < 1311576852 373654 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :in life i have an enormous amount of difficulty slipping out of character < 1311576859 229887 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean .. in character < 1311576866 594650 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where I started on the deck here, is not actually where the game stats. < 1311576871 683876 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not even where the session starts. < 1311576874 599544 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i mean < 1311576914 355768 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :certain neuroses i haven't learned to break.. < 1311576914 653406 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both the source file (TeX) and the output file (DVI) are available. So is the macro package I wrote for the purpose of recording D&D games, as well as a recording of a different game I am in as well. < 1311576932 490245 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: What neuroses are those? Can you try harder? < 1311576944 365559 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to make friends with psychos in real life. < 1311576947 854569 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazies at least < 1311576969 282492 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm used to hating the people i spend most of my time with in real life < 1311576981 850266 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not lately.. since i have withdrawn to my moms basement < 1311576998 830631 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sometimes I do crazy things too (not always). < 1311577004 645967 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1311577007 374355 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is currently nothing in my basement. < 1311577022 395822 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :people who only keep me around as company to take advantage of me < 1311577027 101648 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it would not be useful to go there, except to fix things, measure things, or to get away from the heat. < 1311577028 298608 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :not because they like me < 1311577040 749239 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :not because they want me to enjoy their company < 1311577063 122623 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, well, then you would have to try harder to avoid them taking advantage of you in circumstances when you do not want it. < 1311577087 757431 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that personal stuff is supposed to not enter the room < 1311577104 556964 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is OK, you don't have to. < 1311577133 358064 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much do you know of TeX, anyways? < 1311577155 629286 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that related to latex? < 1311577175 733583 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might want to tell you that the first time I played D&D, I selected race/class at random, from the Player's Handbook only. Resulting in a human wizard. Who had armor and a mace. < 1311577232 4600 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Yes it is related. LaTeX is a format and a set of macros and packages written on top of a variant of TeX, which is PDF-e-XeTeX. < 1311577254 337082 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer Plain TeX, and use it for my stuff. < 1311577262 549171 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :The world has always been a place where some are happy by making others suffer. < 1311577294 318959 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :These days it is more implicit than explicit. < 1311577322 880196 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it might be. Often because some people are being greedy or stupid (or both). < 1311577326 62633 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the surface society pretends to be happy and friendly. < 1311577368 51457 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, mostly, I guess. < 1311577373 252672 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write a report about it if you want to. < 1311577451 815908 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there is an economy based on the ability to cope with stress or not. < 1311577460 276155 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those who cope well with stress and conflict thrive < 1311577478 701878 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :And those who don't become the food. < 1311577527 683120 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other words, if you have to withdraw from stress and conflict, you lose. < 1311577533 568453 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Fuck. < 1311577550 739029 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, literal interpretation of Genesis time... < 1311577552 376678 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes I do suppose there is a lot of that these days. < 1311577553 826099 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noah's Ark. < 1311577581 617609 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't every animal on the ark have to carry every unique disease for that species? < 1311577592 709657 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Every*. < 1311577623 136736 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, actually, breeding pair. Could be split between the two. < 1311577639 810212 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the clean animals, there's 7, so < 1311577640 674016 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I don't see why. < 1311577641 856515 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1311577647 742451 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Otherwise they wouldn't exist. < 1311577662 912914 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: O, yes. Now I see. < 1311577665 900657 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Only species extant on the ark could exist post-flood. < 1311577679 717410 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do the "clean" animals have any unique diseases? < 1311577681 327991 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we go with a literal interpretation and claim no evolution since. < 1311577691 433320 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, yes, there's rather a *lot* of clean animals. < 1311577699 242175 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I can see now, we are going with a literal interpretation < 1311577724 673990 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(never mind that there has been speciation more recent than the claimed occurance of the ark story...) < 1311577756 254947 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But obviously the people who wrote it made up something because they didn't actually know. It is mythology, like other mythology is. < 1311577774 620309 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the only problem being that a notable number of people believe it literally happened. < 1311577795 588827 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlike, say, Greek mythology, where there's maybe a few nutjobs that do. < 1311577821 528488 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, yes I know those things. < 1311577853 633712 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311577871 860820 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they have all animals, they must also have all small ones, big ones, and one that can only live in the water... < 1311577880 548545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1311577910 779808 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although maybe by "animals" in that text they didn't include people or fish < 1311577928 298102 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by "bird" they also included bats < 1311578087 539126 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, they'd have serious issues even with fish. < 1311578093 746016 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1311578099 426247 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either the saltwater or the freshwater fish would be *fucked*. < 1311578124 80948 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :On another note, I realized I have the full text of King James Bible in my computer, but not the deuterocanonical books. I have been told that the deuterocanonical books are part of the original King James Bible however. Do you know of such texts are available? < 1311578137 199155 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Yes of course I can see that < 1311578399 529580 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course there is a lot of absurdity and stuff in the Bible; however, the text that God created light at first before creating the light producing objects (the sun), does make sense, from both scientific and from spiritual points of view. It might be said to be the Light of God; or the various electromagnetic radiation of various frequencies including light near the start of the universe; or whatever. At least *this* part is not complete nonse < 1311578416 144637 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have stacks of ebooks on my pc. some legal. some illegal. < 1311578425 546260 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there still is a lot of nonsense nevertheless, of the Bible. < 1311578431 307690 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :none however paid for < 1311578445 256512 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Sheer dumb luck, but hey. < 1311578466 154112 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikisource seems to have the KJV apocrypha. < 1311578467 326314 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I downloaded this sweet cache of philosophical texts < 1311578474 824643 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikisource/en/wiki/Bible_%28King_James%29 < 1311578489 180608 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Yes, you would be correct about that. Of course it is unlikely the people who wrote that part of Genesis (note it comes from various sources) knew anything about science. < 1311578517 413314 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is well aware of the documentary hypothesis
< 1311578609 744507 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is always the problems of where to apply literalism and where not to. also interpretations of any text will always vary. < 1311578652 682333 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the history of any given text that old tends to be mysterious enough that it's anyones guess. < 1311578661 236731 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I have of the KJV is in plain ASCII text format, and is accessible over both HTTP and gopher protocols. I would like to find one similar thing to add (perhaps as a separate file) of the apocrypha. < 1311578665 454267 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :And theer is also mistranslations from language A to language B < 1311578670 582602 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Why should I care about whether any of it's literal? < 1311578685 920165 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, the Wikisource version has the Apocrypha. < 1311578687 839042 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance "40" apparently can also mean "many" < 1311578688 993804 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Yes I noticed those things too. There can be mistranslations and unknown things about the history. < 1311578730 524904 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: The only things that could be taken literally and not contradict, well, essentially all empirical evidence we have are also fairly irrelevant. < 1311578774 796542 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason I am using KJV is simply because it is in the public domain (Wikisource says it is perpetual copyright in the UK, but I don't live there). < 1311578778 20211 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and religions spring up all across the world.. so they are natural enough for us to have < 1311578790 291854 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as written language sprung up < 1311578794 671963 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Friggin' crown copyright. < 1311578812 52962 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: And we know of some religions in cultures without written languages. < 1311578824 449467 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It really does seem to be a universal. < 1311578871 697498 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I really miss about the times long gone is the natural beauty of the land before we ravaged it < 1311578899 190083 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :with roads.. and what do roads exist for? faster transport.. < 1311578913 632810 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roads are also pretty shitty transport. < 1311578917 99730 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and concrete.. well i dont know the exact role of masses of concrete < 1311578927 50402 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and skyscrapers.. < 1311578938 26858 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :welll population growth has a role in it too of course < 1311578945 395421 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :termites build mounds etc < 1311578962 229015 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fairly simple, actually. If we didn't build those we would be *way* over capacity. < 1311578975 303718 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its just that human activities are so pronounced.. the rest of the plants and animals can't keep a balance with us < 1311578984 702025 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is true the human people are also the problem of making everything messed up you have to be more careful next time. However, there is purposes for things. Everything can have the purposes of them too. < 1311579000 55346 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, we're outpacing evolution by several orders of magnitude. < 1311579020 177406 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sea has done a good job of protecting itself by means of its fierce waves < 1311579038 395401 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever gets built on the sea, gets crushed < 1311579067 979669 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or washed ashore < 1311579082 969701 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Someone* doesn't know about oil rigs... < 1311579100 4878 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.. it can't beat oil, yeah < 1311579110 513806 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm ok.. good point < 1311579128 601931 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lord Oil demands we build on the ocean. Cost is little object. < 1311579278 323508 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of feel bad for my hypothetical children < 1311579319 300833 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (/) < 1311579320 84668 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Fractional a) => a -> a -> a < 1311579370 987789 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not want to have any children please. < 1311579422 448377 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Bible is warning you about all of these things can you see that? And yet, many things happen too badly. Pay attention to the warning! We are messing up everything too much! Be more careful next time please! < 1311579442 28903 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some say the message of the Bible is that of love. I say it is that of warning. < 1311579540 526932 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i noticed for example that sea creatures don't build things in the ocean < 1311579555 804223 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely they could evolve such capacities if it were a good thing < 1311579586 990265 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think even some Christians have never read the Bible. < 1311579587 206355 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I parially gfixed some of my Chicken Scheme issues < 1311579605 743001 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still, some eggs are platform-depenent, apparently < 1311579660 768142 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of which.. uh.. spiders build webs.. but i guess its far too much of an energy waste to construct anything meaningful in that way < 1311579675 599019 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :plants do it i suppose < 1311579692 779585 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :spiders build webs.. a plant is a web in some cases < 1311579775 110128 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'd say the "message" of the Bible is that YHWH is evil. < 1311580164 195010 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Well, say what you want to. I suppose you could instead say the message is that it is complete nonsense, if you wanted to. < 1311580211 587424 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Skeptics Annotated Bible has the entire KJV text (but does not include apocrypha) and many cross-references and external references and other notes. < 1311580400 416208 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the jawbone of an ass a good weapon? < 1311580466 469829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex_: Why did you try and exile coppro again < 1311580466 576334 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1311580498 532768 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the basic trouble I have is to have a character who is not me. I am not good at all at making that detachment < 1311580535 478159 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: I am somewhat good at it, but much, I think. I am not sure. < 1311580539 817454 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they always inherit my insecurities unless like i am playing a single player game when noone is watching < 1311580543 319672 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/much/not a lot/ < 1311580574 895978 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sorta know why... but doing something about it is like debugging my psyche < 1311580627 38575 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I improve on that and other things related to the game, when playing the game multiple times < 1311580672 127171 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a wannabe author its a problem < 1311580693 914567 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't write a character who doesn't secretly inherit all my neuroses < 1311580729 174762 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but please note that in saying this I am expressing my plan to change it. < 1311580751 444091 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I understand a bit. Have you tried writing any such things? < 1311580758 60390 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you improved at all? < 1311580773 119282 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :My characters tend to not have much social interaction. < 1311580802 527893 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort of get into this problem of trying to analyze every character in a scene and how they would act < 1311580814 770100 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly thats impossible. < 1311580821 353204 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it can be difficult. < 1311580848 914612 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe its better to be like Mezzacotta and just define each character and throw them into situations < 1311580853 503187 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would saying "Or I might just look at Racket" be offensive in #chicken ? < 1311580887 535198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: UR SO RUDE IM SUICIDE < 1311580890 117250 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read my recordings, see if they would interest you or whatever, criticize it a lot if you want to, or whatever < 1311580908 844010 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source file: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/recording/level20.tex Output file: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/recording/level20.dvi < 1311580917 445270 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhh good old cjb < 1311580926 47339 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the geocities which never died < 1311580932 14618 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know it still existed < 1311580954 822508 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :cjb had that subculture thing about it < 1311580954 929700 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am using the Dynamic DNS service from them < 1311580997 463315 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean back in the old days you know.. it was all about html 4 pages and webrings.. < 1311581004 172827 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :geocities, cjb, angelfire < 1311581055 390484 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I use the dynamic DNS so that I can run multiple protocols and have my own control over the servers and stuff like that. I don't use webrings, much of my files are not HTML at all, and so on. It is different from most. < 1311581059 769239 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the world hasn't changed, and it's just me < 1311581070 813650 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :my point is noone uses webrings etc anymore < 1311581089 523331 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can see it sometimes used. < 1311581089 660386 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :blogs are fucking ugly... facebooks are ugly.. myspaces are ugly.. < 1311581105 993771 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres no attempt anymore to actually create webpages < 1311581124 100300 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^by amateurs < 1311581135 242958 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its all php and mysql and apache < 1311581158 703403 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont for the life of me understand why so many webpages need databases :D < 1311581185 474610 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :"accounts" < 1311581201 583135 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess... i guess.. the web has become an application platform < 1311581205 137598 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :when did this happen < 1311581213 859735 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know html4 was an application platform.. < 1311581221 760982 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet tim berners lee never knew either < 1311581235 557713 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess the "internet" --- ok im ranting in monologue < 1311581238 285609 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shouldn't be. I avoid using it as an application platform < 1311581280 533520 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :email is good yeah.. forums yeah.. < 1311581292 173744 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :flashgames.. sure.. youtube.. sur < 1311581313 860400 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its getting weird < 1311581334 421677 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know and I generally try to avoid that kind of stuff instead. < 1311581355 44101 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not only HTTP server, but also a gopher server and IRC server in my computer < 1311581405 434627 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno im just ranting.. < 1311581421 728942 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i believe ranting is the most honest form of communication. < 1311581423 986213 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And generally programs I write using C or CWEB or whatever, they can be downloaded and run or compiled on your computer, use them local use < 1311581439 443972 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTP/HTML/Javascript/PHP is such a *stupid* stack for an application platform, too. < 1311581451 445760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, ais isn't here < 1311581454 919095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn < 1311581465 229948 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, jeeze, the only stack I can think of that'd be worse is, like, X over WAN. < 1311581467 259368 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I agree. < 1311581481 129620 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :my rants are full of shit, but at the time they have an honest energy < 1311581494 99801 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just rattle off one fallacy after another < 1311581496 519815 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, is there a problem with the HTTP part? < 1311581514 605261 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better way depends on what it is. In some cases, SSH would be better, in other cases, just a local program is OK. < 1311581521 322786 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so on. < 1311581532 644417 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the web is free < 1311581538 780301 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has that going for it. < 1311581547 163160 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Yes, HTTP is a flawed protocol. < 1311581550 217710 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :richard stallman needs to get on this though. < 1311581563 34615 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: No he doesn't. < 1311581571 410034 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I heard an anti-Racket rant < 1311581588 780598 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU/www < 1311581592 580185 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Done EmacsW32 base setup. Sleeping 20 seconds so you may read this ..." < 1311581595 142681 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Application platform should be the one for the use, such as C program compiled locally and such < 1311581602 747964 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: It contains many complexities that literally nobody uses, for instance. < 1311581630 111301 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, its basic design is completely contrary to the use it gets put to. < 1311581631 410745 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For banking, SSH would be a good way to do it, I think. < 1311581635 271457 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a wiki protocol. < 1311581646 987756 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a html document has evolved into an application platform space. < 1311581710 818282 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The basic operations of HTTP are get, put, delete, and patch. < 1311581717 356678 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its so absurd.. mr burners lee wouldn't have imagined it in 1million years < 1311581719 526635 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honest. < 1311581735 189850 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it works.. i must admit in contradiction to my rant < 1311581743 243247 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works, and it's free < 1311581765 813612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :burners :D < 1311581773 941328 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Yes maybe it means it should actually be used that way instead. With, get, put, delete, and patch. < 1311581775 692438 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :berners ;_; < 1311581797 593437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbl is a cool dude, if solid in his opinions < 1311581802 323317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno how he has time to hang about on irc but < 1311581821 43242 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it is, it is basically used as either a generic data transport or a generic file host. < 1311581843 35444 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, would be fun if there were wikis that used those features < 1311581845 151817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he is in #swig a lot) < 1311581848 736376 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hyperlink is ok.. but sometimes people just jump to the URL bar < 1311581852 373745 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although modern web browsers don't really.. blah < 1311581854 174344 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is literally nothing more than a pointless layer for use as a generic data transport, and poorly suited for file hosting. < 1311581884 513765 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So effing much impedence mismatch. < 1311581885 674879 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance.. to travel from bing.com to google.com i type a g in the url bar < 1311581889 944585 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Yes, that would be what FTP and gopher protocols are for, I think. < 1311581900 697308 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: FTP also has a lot of stupidities. < 1311581902 274978 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :no hyperlinks involved there < 1311581906 304084 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :FTP is dumb < 1311581918 716628 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :search engines thrive on hypertext though... < 1311581922 771015 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It requires *several* round-trips just to get a single file. < 1311581926 150741 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be avoided wherever possible < 1311581929 648598 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it is so insanely stateful. < 1311581939 443638 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may be dumb. But still it is what FTP was designed for, it is for file transfer. < 1311581952 590169 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there is at least less impedence mismatch there. < 1311581967 411255 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are other protocols. Including, Plan 9 Protocol, and SSH, and so on. < 1311581967 839508 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :use SFTP at least if you're going to use stupid < 1311581970 738121 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my local LAN at home my brother FTPs me files when we have trouble using windows network neighborhoood < 1311581994 284457 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I would gladly s/PHP/Python/g in any application stack ever < 1311582002 596631 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was knew a printer who had an FTP server. You could upload a postscript file, and it'd print it. < 1311582010 137478 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/was/once/ < 1311582011 706082 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Gah.) < 1311582027 239999 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes please. < 1311582028 214796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You've said that, like, exact line before < 1311582035 530133 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I would gladly s/Python//g in everything ever < 1311582041 511433 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Honestly, I think even C programs for CGI would be an improvement. < 1311582045 230582 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think I typed it a bit differently, but yes, I think I've mentioned. < 1311582049 396808 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: heh yes < 1311582052 657717 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's sad, I can't even figure out how to toggle an option in emacs < 1311582061 360937 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How much to you know about the type formalisms in Haskell < 1311582065 766438 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes I have heard of that too. However I would prefer one that used Plan 9 Protocol instead of FTP, and DVI instead of PostScript. And arrange in directories for the various jobs, and status, and fonts, and so on. < 1311582067 483048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: That seems excessive; PHP doesn't have rampant memory corruption < 1311582077 81968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Depends what you mean by "type formalism" < 1311582097 958490 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The formal notions of Haskell's type system, and things like it's soundness and other useful properties < 1311582118 841461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not "sound"; undefined :: a < 1311582123 578314 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait I could just go talk to that guy at Google who studied at Glasgow. < 1311582128 647594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends what you mean by sound :-P < 1311582129 831397 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: PHP has rampant injection attacks, though. < 1311582132 498701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Oh gee, thanks < 1311582134 234735 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it is sound < 1311582143 456075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's sound in some senses and not in others < 1311582163 862037 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be Plan 9 Protocol over USB. < 1311582166 95844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Coq developer certainly wouldn't think much of Haskell's type system < 1311582166 411860 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry guys.. i tend to join channels where i am the least skilled in a field.. and go offtopic a lot to compensate. < 1311582176 620746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Through the Curry-Howard lens, it is inconsistent < 1311582183 709315 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i see it is coming back around to haskell. nice < 1311582186 824867 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Is okay, we just go off topic a lot. :P < 1311582212 746191 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sound means that you don't prove falsehoods < 1311582219 684150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Haskell's does < 1311582223 790553 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo :: a -> b < 1311582224 963601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo = undefined < 1311582228 829877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Void < 1311582230 296725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo :: Void < 1311582231 620690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo = undefined < 1311582240 220264 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: bottom is not a falshood < 1311582250 225910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you even know what the Curry-Howard isomorphism is < 1311582253 75343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honest question < 1311582260 6738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Void is a falsehood, forall a b. a -> b is a falsehood < 1311582262 728693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And those values are proofs < 1311582278 454644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go type "Axiom undefined : forall a, a." into Coq and tell me it's still sound < 1311582327 397381 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know what the Curry-Howard isomorphism is. < 1311582336 518453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: "Of course Haskell's type system is unsound!" --Conor McBride < 1311582336 818649 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: These are type-level falsehoods. < 1311582338 609998 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And I'm not talking about it < 1311582341 417748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Happy? < 1311582356 755016 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No. < 1311582370 509707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You can at least admit the term "sound" is ambiguous < 1311582386 829266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conor McBride is rather an expert :p < 1311582409 805331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: What you probably refer to is type safety < 1311582411 923313 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: k fine then < 1311582427 354086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, nice way to respond to someone who points out that experts disagree with your terminology < 1311582428 917589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever < 1311582434 716786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go ask Mr. Glasgow I guess < 1311582439 603669 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the type inference system < 1311582515 681006 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, that's Hindley-Milner you're referring to, right? < 1311582521 439839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :extended < 1311582537 633871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, your questions are very vague. < 1311582550 944210 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, it's not *quite* straight Hindley-Milner, especially in GHC instead of Report. < 1311582558 481069 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: yeah < 1311582600 463415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are the "formal notions" of Haskell's type system, anyway < 1311582607 249612 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Contrary to popular belief, Haskell is *not* a very formal language. < 1311582648 884909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shrug, have it your way < 1311582733 692156 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: on a relative scale, no < 1311582754 120363 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm wondering if anyone is familiar with this stuff because I'm not really in a paper-chugging mood < 1311582777 159117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have yet to define "this stuff" in any sort of answerable form < 1311582835 365579 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if you can't answer the question, then the answer is "not enough" < 1311582852 306916 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you simply won't because you're a prick, then fuck off < 1311582855 875378 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: What can you tell me about the formalisms in C? < 1311582867 626111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You have not asked a question. < 1311582872 315334 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The above question is about as specific. :) < 1311582881 202756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You have, however, acted like an asshole who isn't really interested in hearing answer from me, so...? < 1311582911 792631 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: A lot, sadly < 1311582936 242045 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Oh, right, there's actually things that could be called formalisms in the C spec. < 1311582945 925129 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm, C abstract machine... < 1311582980 434526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: In future, if you're going to refuse to ask a specific question, ignore me when I point out that your terminology is very vague, and then tell me to either shut up or fuck off, I'd appreciate it if you didn't fucking ping me in the first place. < 1311582984 727437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks. < 1311583148 555453 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Have you ever read the definition of restrict < 1311583157 87467 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The terminology was deliberately vauge < 1311583185 686876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Then I ask you to tell me about programming, and if you ask for specificity, I'm going to assume you know nothing of the subject < 1311583201 361630 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Not recently. < 1311583243 676640 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also fuck Hindley-Milner < 1311583248 663993 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Still, probably a bit surprising to people who aren't aware of what's in the C spec. < 1311583250 745160 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the paper goes on to define something for one thing < 1311583252 785272 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use it for another < 1311583266 748959 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaving me completely befuddled as to what is actually meant < 1311583273 289126 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :rage < 1311583289 416528 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is *incredibly* different from what you'd think if you just saw what compilers do to C) < 1311583317 409459 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :no kidding < 1311583392 185103 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, that's in part because there's an impedence mismatch between C and common CPUs. < 1311583398 149924 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(surprising, I know.) < 1311584040 617597 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to be incapable of remembering the name "Geiser" < 1311584086 947828 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If Geiser came with any guarantees, you’d break all of them by not using GNU Emacs 23.2" < 1311584093 794916 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm using 23.1 GRAH < 1311584757 763795 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311586119 135148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Updoot. < 1311586149 351398 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose there's no nice in-emacs way to do that < 1311586177 481114 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you said "Updoot" not to be funny, but because there's a tool called Updoot < 1311586191 813726 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VFTTGUjskc < 1311586221 305102 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: I haven't watched the video) < 1311586228 851023 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or even seen the description until now) < 1311586269 353280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: You fail at basic reading < 1311586293 878186 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not talking about Emacs, for instance < 1311586298 517728 :JamezQ!~james@c-24-4-176-56.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311586307 262866 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1311586357 767057 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE SUSPENSE IS KILLING ME < 1311586957 678530 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 PART :#esoteric < 1311587124 189809 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311587306 957426 :chickenzilla!~zack@olol.eu QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1311587663 403516 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311587872 691887 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311589530 800398 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311590350 868630 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1311591160 923356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should ban cybermutiny from /r/mspaint just to see how e reacts. < 1311591524 616606 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :how on EARTH can i have files with dynamic content in linux???? < 1311591538 478133 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the inability to do this is bewildering. < 1311591793 369129 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: sleeping < 1311592372 958738 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUSE is the ugly solution. < 1311592387 297127 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "solution". < 1311593507 853735 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :does disk-backed shm count? :P < 1311593640 521705 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do those... pipe file thingies count as? < 1311594108 527571 :CakeProphet!~adam@h107.18.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311594108 580176 :CakeProphet!~adam@h107.18.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1311594108 580319 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311594799 812849 :GuestIceKovu!x@ANantes-259-1-213-174.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1311594919 421042 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-175-60.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1311595431 506170 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They count as named pipes. < 1311595441 814048 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't really use them as files in all contextsies though. < 1311595460 41808 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also difficult if you have many readers at the same time. < 1311595584 346411 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Localhost-loopbacked NBD device is another alternative, but tends to require rootish stuff. < 1311595651 962776 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe you can also quasi-easily offer "dynamic files" via GVFS and things like that, but they're not really real files then. < 1311595857 555622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: gvfs has a fuse mapper in ~/.gvfs < 1311596005 468526 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1311596074 504812 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :*.net *.split < 1311596156 188 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311596280 996183 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I've noticed it does something like that when I gvfs-mount remote shares. < 1311596368 861057 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311598093 243134 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311598113 375584 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1311598236 940201 :GuestIceKovu!x@ANantes-259-1-213-174.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr NICK :Slereah < 1311599225 97152 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311599252 954320 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1311601312 642979 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1311602225 443813 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1311603360 7516 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1311604095 582273 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me, or is Monte Carlo a fancy name for something that really isn't that fancy? < 1311604120 125555 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that fancy a name < 1311604133 885402 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a city famous for its casinos and games of chance... < 1311604149 437009 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Carlo_simulation < 1311604178 275875 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence, any method involving a roulette wheel simulation in it somewhere is called monte carlo < 1311604329 62983 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1311605158 10876 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311608951 350190 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311610002 263028 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-1-245.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311610616 134470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle (==) IORef < 1311610616 206489 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you mean: == (IORef a) /count=20 < 1311610616 280203 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude undefined :: a < 1311610616 332896 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Test.QuickCheck.Batch bottom :: a < 1311610622 407665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle (==) :: IORef a -> IORef a -> Bool < 1311610622 516926 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude (==) :: Eq a => a -> a -> Bool < 1311610622 589046 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Eq (==) :: Eq a => a -> a -> Bool < 1311611511 911330 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311612328 982162 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you looking for an instance Eq (IORef a)? < 1311612331 915242 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1311612340 690747 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311612376 860215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Found, ages ago; conversation in private channel :-P < 1311612383 522043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, semi-private < 1311612396 691504 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods.
< 1311612419 353583 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: it's a very good idea. < 1311612419 993742 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: last argument must be a cub scout!! have you made your money-drop today?? < 1311612547 267670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote tswett: last argument must be a cub scout!! have you made your money-drop today?? < 1311612547 783015 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and .txt doesn't have links either signed or unsigned... eh, don't worry < 1311612551 134568 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :544) tswett: last argument must be a cub scout!! have you made your money-drop today?? < 1311612559 369917 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style agora < 1311612559 877608 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: agora (a large selection of Agora rules, both current and historical) < 1311612570 391002 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: well, of could I would never do that. < 1311612571 29818 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: 3) a player resigns from an office has whatever duties, then 3 extra votes on < 1311612580 225910 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: please continue that thought. < 1311612580 785434 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: ( b) any entities disqualified by the assessor that e grants eir poa to the < 1311612595 285845 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: yes, I like where this is going. Go on. < 1311612596 13006 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: d) any additional information in the new < 1311612606 424473 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: that should just about do it. One more. < 1311612606 898032 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: judgement ( cfj), < 1311612611 282683 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent. < 1311612651 255113 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :A player resigns from an office has whatever duties, then 3 extra votes on any entities disqualified by the Assessor that e grants eir POA to any additional information in the new judgement. < 1311613414 111573 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311613887 215251 :derrik!~xix@125-11-131-46.internet.emt.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1311614465 175158 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311614655 793051 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1311614744 84068 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1311614885 653050 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the easiest way to convert html to pdf? < 1311614912 476137 :derrik!~xix@125-11-131-46.internet.emt.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :press a button < 1311614940 981212 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like mice < 1311614961 68436 :derrik!~xix@125-11-131-46.internet.emt.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're out of luck then < 1311614966 683685 :derrik!~xix@125-11-131-46.internet.emt.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :no easy way < 1311614989 400533 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't say it had to be easy < 1311614993 824946 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the easiest < 1311615031 768493 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use a printer driver output PDF, I guess. < 1311615060 266406 :derrik!~xix@125-11-131-46.internet.emt.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :print to pdf.. that also uses mouse, i.e. too easy < 1311615087 364653 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use keyboard too, it doesn't require mouse < 1311615090 621146 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1311615092 938569 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try thhat < 1311615105 970660 :derrik!~xix@125-11-131-46.internet.emt.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with the button actually < 1311615124 245846 :derrik!~xix@125-11-131-46.internet.emt.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :button in e.g. openoffice < 1311615178 176667 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm learning italian and this bash/awk script is about italian food. should i try and translate the source code to italian? < 1311615180 724356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: prince xml is high quality iirc < 1311615199 594843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and free for non-commercial IIRC < 1311615203 815894 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I don't think PDF is a good format, it is full of dumb things < 1311615208 30501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and written in Mercury, a functional Prolog derivative :-) < 1311615217 662678 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311615297 921470 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have a choice about the format. it'ss that or .doc :| < 1311615313 57034 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll look at prince < 1311615347 71207 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then use PDF, since DOC (Microsoft Word, I guess) has as many dumb things but in addition might not produce the same result on all computer < 1311615422 291931 :derrik!~xix@125-11-131-46.internet.emt.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i have "cutepdf writer" installed.. it prints to pdf < 1311615461 82245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, windws < 1311615462 2677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows < 1311615495 231703 :derrik!~xix@125-11-131-46.internet.emt.ee QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311615506 567049 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm i found the command to convince vimperator to do it < 1311615515 549380 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric ::ha >filename.pdf < 1311615537 907735 :derrik!~xix@125-11-131-46.internet.emt.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1311615538 124091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: gross, princexml will give nicer output :{ < 1311615547 420948 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will look into it later < 1311615552 619310 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am on a train... < 1311615559 61745 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it stops in like ten minutes < 1311615607 854280 :derrik!~xix@125-11-131-46.internet.emt.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm also on a train.. it stops every other minute < 1311615619 846569 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does there exist such things sa PDF to HTML, PDF to picture format, PDF to DVI, etc.? < 1311615701 544249 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an excellent pdf to html < 1311615723 223613 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1311615725 858518 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks
< 1311615905 76060 :derrik!~xix@125-11-131-46.internet.emt.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/neutronics/todd/nuc.bomb.html < 1311616119 771495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol at the DON'T TRY AND BUILD AN ATOMIC BOMB warning < 1311616125 749056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PROLLY A BAD IDEA < 1311616922 110564 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311617073 262077 :derrik!~xix@125-11-131-46.internet.emt.ee QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1311617583 37952 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311617675 426906 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311618818 806017 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-58.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1311619122 376210 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1311619596 229410 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1311620097 214453 :JamezQ!~james@c-24-4-176-56.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311620322 213198 :JamezQ!~james@c-24-4-176-56.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1311620985 860515 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: You've said that, like, exact line before < 1311620994 374715 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :including the misspelling? :D < 1311621007 649451 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*typo < 1311621158 489143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps :D < 1311621793 902639 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I should ban cybermutiny from /r/mspaint just to see how e reacts. < 1311621803 695699 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott's a mod somewhere? O_O < 1311621808 921862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1311621816 741153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm the only mod there :P < 1311621825 283495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I have taken approximately three moderator actions in my entire tenure < 1311621863 6769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, this cybermutiny guy makes literally almost every post in there and they're mostly to his site thing which is a collection of seemingly inscrutable MS Paint art made by people who were clearly high at the time :-P < 1311621873 339822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mind, but it would be amusing if this was, like, his main source of revenue. < 1311621898 119175 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's about _actual_ mspaint, not those adventures... < 1311621913 582720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's /r/homestuck, which recently passed /r/mspaint's subscriber count :-( < 1311621935 884817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but /r/homestuck actually sometimes pays off on a subscription, so...) < 1311621947 124873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: mind you, /r/mspaint has gotten at least _two_ Homestuck-related submissions in two months < 1311621958 140145 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gasp* < 1311621962 79267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :both from the cybermutiny guy who doesn't _appear_ to know what they're actually about :D < 1311621984 24161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/mspaint/comments/hdyg7/blue_guy/c1uo7ll < 1311622295 442528 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is it just me, or is Monte Carlo a fancy name for something that really isn't that fancy? < 1311622308 535553 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :istr it's in contrast to Las Vegas simulation < 1311622319 719 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't quite recall what each is, though :P < 1311622412 643422 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: are you looking for an instance Eq (IORef a)? < 1311622421 337365 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: Don't Quit < 1311622432 649142 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which reminds me that haddock really should provide source links for orphan instances < 1311622460 372786 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or all instances really, so you don't have to check two places < 1311622967 683839 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION finds today's mezzacotta comic strangely amusing
< 1311623028 313165 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311623062 417378 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do we allow vegetables in here anyway < 1311623164 305914 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 263 seconds < 1311623308 23985 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't it be discrimination not to? < 1311623322 491472 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are you sure pumpkin is a vegetable rather than e.g. a fruit or a berry or something? < 1311623333 522179 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but what if he's an enemy plant? < 1311623373 239917 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1311623373 607357 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freenode channel guidelines: "Look for the best in people. If you assume people have no self-control, they'll confirm your belief." < 1311623398 17801 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: hm better check wikipedia < 1311623404 48794 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311623429 85502 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1311623430 789631 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The noun vegetable usually means an edible plant or part of a plant other than a sweet fruit or seed. -- However, the word is not scientific, and its meaning is largely based on culinary and cultural tradition." < 1311623435 229497 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it can be anything you want it to be. < 1311623444 756933 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even YOU could be a vegetable. (\forall YOU.) < 1311623477 439868 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that ancient tradition of vegetarian cannibalism < 1311623602 633579 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In culinary terms, both summer and winter squashes are generally considered as vegetables, even though pumpkin may be used for sweet dishes. < 1311623606 12737 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1311623784 519120 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :WordNet "hypernyms of pumpkin": < 1311623786 374120 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sense 2 < 1311623786 445821 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pumpkin < 1311623786 499122 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : => vegetable, veggie, veg < 1311623786 499318 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : => produce, green goods, green groceries, garden truck < 1311623786 499427 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : => food, solid food < 1311623787 496796 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : => solid < 1311623789 695621 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : => matter < 1311623791 410948 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : => physical entity < 1311623793 391469 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : => entity < 1311623795 448758 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A clear vegetable. < 1311623799 421778 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311623828 418669 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nouns quite often tend to end up as "entity", I think. < 1311623861 868864 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :entirely so < 1311623972 416750 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :WordNet can also comprehensively list everything that is a vegetable; wn vegetable -treen => http://p.zem.fi/avpv < 1311624020 763039 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, what a losing piece of code: < 1311624022 19272 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ wn entity -treen < 1311624022 72198 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hyponyms of noun entity < 1311624022 72390 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Search too large. Narrow search and try again... < 1311624052 366380 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The entirety of entity is entirely too enormous. < 1311624076 294806 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The last line was not part of the error message.) < 1311624115 193577 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm and you _do_ have the entire database locally? < 1311624129 639947 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1311624180 79764 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :enticing. < 1311624192 104029 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The maximum buffer size is determined by computer platform. If the buffer size is exceeded the following message is printed in the output buffer: "Search too large. Narrow search and try again..."" < 1311624201 168507 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so it is the fault of the computer platform. < 1311624225 156624 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just need to change to x86-inf < 1311624479 110106 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If one inputs the word entity as an entry in WordNet 1.6 and try to search its full hyponyms, he will get nothing but a note of "Search too large. Narrow search and try again." provided that he does not narrow the searching by terminating it beforehand. Sure enough, if the entry is not entity but another word, say cat, the searching will probably do." < 1311624479 978983 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Liu Yang, Yu Jiangsheng, Yu Shiwen. A Tree-structure Solution for the Development of ChineseNet. Institute of Computational Linguistics, Dept. of CS, Peking University. Technical Report, 2002. < 1311624487 811547 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to have not been the only one interested in entities. < 1311624643 341706 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :APL? < 1311624658 370813 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :at this point i'm tempted to create an esolang named haskell. < 1311624666 756774 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe C. < 1311624695 118158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: with haskell, the job has been done for you. < 1311624701 435001 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...touche. < 1311624715 289510 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*é < 1311624727 302253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also C ;-) < 1311624767 653183 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Java < 1311624822 554147 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm surely APL isn't the first one < 1311625080 328695 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought of http://esolangs.org/wiki/Java2K < 1311625285 761202 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah me to but i don't count that < 1311625296 773571 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh we have http://esolangs.org/wiki/COBOL < 1311625362 409379 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311625421 968094 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311626373 700403 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-58.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: over and out < 1311626848 357274 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.21.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311626848 409452 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.21.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1311626848 409600 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311626926 500567 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: ooh, as i'm looking through the language list for other purposes, i think no one has mentioned Paintfuck to you yet... < 1311626941 351680 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that's some major idling. < 1311626961 227132 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell atehwa You might wish to look at Paintfuck < 1311626961 292236 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1311626969 582746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1311626977 420064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :paintfuck was fun < 1311626984 462990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, uninteresting-looking language < 1311626994 574470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the tiny two-dimensional data plus storage as output... < 1311626997 665275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :very CA kind of feel < 1311627060 99689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"increpare: I can parse the code beforehand to detect logical infinite loops. I think they occur as a certain pattern in the code." < 1311627066 945674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah the forum paintfuck was on is v. smart < 1311627082 496070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Edit: After I talked furthermore with ehird from #esoteric, it's a saner idea to leave the crash-course as is. so, as I originally said, it's a feature not a bug" < 1311627083 897061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i show the light < 1311627117 167362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :god < 1311627120 664439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol's conway is awesome < 1311627154 958937 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :conway? < 1311627176 508009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :life < 1311627177 717943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :game < 1311627178 239381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing < 1311627180 326015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in paintfuck < 1311627193 952741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:36:30: i'm testing Haiku < 1311627194 139135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:36:54: and it appears that it is a major shit < 1311627194 287895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:39:07: 5+7+5, not 5+11, nooga < 1311627194 340132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i add quotes from three years ago... < 1311627347 10242 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it do it < 1311627411 440343 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice quote < 1311627429 962983 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i for one welcome our new log-quoting overlords < 1311627457 839161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote [2008] i'm testing Haiku and it appears that it is a major shit 5+7+5, not 5+11, nooga < 1311627459 244006 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :545) [2008] i'm testing Haiku and it appears that it is a major shit 5+7+5, not 5+11, nooga < 1311627479 393443 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311627536 353364 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311627562 874778 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION removes Impossible!
< 1311627588 797133 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1311627610 721743 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a nonexisting link from four months ago that was never filled in < 1311627636 110511 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the policy is clearly stated at the top of the language list (i should know because i added it) < 1311627701 575373 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in bold. < 1311627847 745332 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311627866 347067 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311627920 574140 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-1-245.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311628078 109470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D < 1311628128 692394 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :after a previous deletion orgy, probably. < 1311628195 842185 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find no more esolangs named the same as a known (to me) mainstream language. although we do have shakell. < 1311628230 48827 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did, anyhow. < 1311628237 93379 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: WHERE DID SHAKELL GO < 1311628278 637930 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANSWER OR I SHALL HAVE TO USE THE POLICY < 1311628284 369596 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311628284 670282 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually, anyway. < 1311628442 309410 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION finds it on web archive
< 1311628529 38857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's shakell again < 1311628544 315239 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Shakell is an esoteric programming language created by SimonRC in 2005. It is mainly inspired by SADOL, but also Unlambda, Lisp and Haskell." < 1311628549 579677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :I wrote the program for my Master’s Thesis (a dynamic programming problem) in Turbo Pascal, so I got good at functional programming. | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1311628673 180892 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that for real < 1311628698 518609 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: that is the actual topic, yes < 1311628710 924192 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ceci n'est pas un topic < 1311628757 470756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/07/24/get-started-functional-programming/#comment-94407 < 1311628782 221329 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1311628807 420813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is why if you want to make sure no one ever instantiates a class (e.g. library) you not only need to make the constructor private, but also make that constructor throw an exception. I'd recommend UnsupportedOperationException. – ArtB 4 hours ago" < 1311628818 419934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :java is like this big party of assassins < 1311628827 165248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where everyone is REALLY careful not to let anyone else move a muscle out of line < 1311628832 536103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they know < 1311628833 879670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the urge < 1311628835 785857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the urge < 1311628836 722913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to KILL < 1311628842 652504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean construct objects of private classes < 1311628846 493635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing < 1311628866 270542 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :java... < 1311628873 450831 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/iz9rh/does_instanceof_void_always_return_false/c27uht9 good < 1311628904 849530 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders mentioning twoducks to atehwa. i think it may be zzo38's most memorable language. it's the one _i_ remember, anyway.
< 1311628928 787783 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what if someone bytecode-modifies your class when loading and removes the exception? < 1311628955 811340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: arrest them < 1311628972 107375 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: then it is no longer your class and you have nothing to worry about < 1311629014 316258 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it still has all your author-annotations and whatnot dangling from it. < 1311629058 399607 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :warranty void if exception removed by class loader, except if warranty void message removed by class loader < 1311629119 669511 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311629166 494776 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my own @ from the early 90's had this idea of black box encryption of algorithms, which would be useful here. sadly in the real world this idea seems to have hit some roadblocks. < 1311629207 330419 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311629211 670311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"my own @" I'm glad people can relate to @ in this way < 1311629230 730802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I convince you to try out @ when it's ready? :-P < 1311629233 33203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALWAYS NEED CONVERTS < 1311629298 469394 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's obviously an idea of "perfect operating system that seems easy if you don't look too closely at how it would work" floating around in the collective geek subconscious. < 1311629315 627125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never expected @ to be easy :-) < 1311629342 38177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was more, reading a bit of the Loper blog at the start and then looking at TUNES and going, "oh. guess this is my computing life's work then." < 1311629382 652588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and -- I'm not even sure that's true < 1311629393 489839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are so many people who think Unix is some kind of perfection < 1311629395 187452 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be ready just in time for the singularity. whether caused by or causing, remains to be seen. < 1311629411 154470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who think it's literally impossible to improve on filesystems < 1311629425 613310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: heh, I have to dismiss a lot of my thought trails on @ by going "wait no, that's singularity-level technology" < 1311629432 415164 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does losethos have filesystems i forget < 1311629437 572139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes < 1311629453 676221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: all other OSes just have defilesystems < 1311629454 925257 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i had no such qualms as it was essentially a sci-fi fantasy :) < 1311629455 111326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GET IT < 1311629461 934156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: lucky. < 1311629480 362494 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (but I question any kind of "fantasy" that has black box encrypted algorithms running on your computer!) < 1311629483 498507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like a dystopia < 1311629512 498837 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it also had formal verification < 1311629539 183536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still. @ is pretty solidly based around the idea that I don't give a single shit about closed-source software at all and I want to make everything as open and transparent as possible :P < 1311629639 138136 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well the idea here was essentially to able to safely move your computations across the cloud even in the possible presence of malicious programs < 1311629682 319734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1311629700 983992 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'm not sure the "cloud" concept was invented then though) < 1311629701 37021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (congrats for inventing the obvious about two decades before everyone else, and also actually thinking about the security implications) < 1311629705 19564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :snap < 1311629729 300439 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may have been late 90s, i'm not quite sure of the timing < 1311629732 214325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I'm not sure how @'s distributed computing model works... obviously I'd like it to be the same thing as the parallel programming model :) < 1311629792 837724 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange that people think it's impossible to improve on filesystems. < 1311629804 493289 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can even improve on filesystems while retaining the concept. < 1311629845 651421 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, there's not *that* much you can do while retaining the concept of "a chunk of bytes is the only data structure", but hey. < 1311629881 15961 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1311629905 366546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sometimes worries that he'll never finish @. and probably everyone else has already filed it under Feather
< 1311629933 796351 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1311629937 465458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1311629947 146285 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has made bootstrap-linux smaller
< 1311629957 86850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i actually have this _drive_ to make @ happen, though :D < 1311629957 340449 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was able to remove Perl and GNU sed. < 1311629961 320486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quickly, just... at all < 1311629965 495962 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well you'd need to be an even greater genius than i think you are :P < 1311629969 816275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i can't avoid it by NIHing it further as it is The Ultimate < 1311629973 605782 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it only has things sane people would expect! < 1311629982 771874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: FLATTERY GOES IN THE OTHER CHANNEL --------> < 1311629990 760291 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1311629995 234822 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Busybox, Binutils, GCC, Make, Linux. < 1311630009 459381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Maybe I'll pull a Stanislav and declare a brick to be @ < 1311630011 181861 :CakeProphet!~adam@h248.2.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311630011 235116 :CakeProphet!~adam@h248.2.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1311630011 235174 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311630013 468738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://www.loper-os.org/?p=405) < 1311630041 283541 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bricks, black boxes, what's the difference. < 1311630045 99076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There are a great many other things this amazing silicon device refrains from doing! < 1311630045 151717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as, for instance… computing. And yet, it is still a Lisp system!" < 1311630053 361089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I wonder how Stanislav breathes without laughing < 1311630080 822032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not impose an arbitrary order of sub-expression evaluation on programmers. < 1311630082 375869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1311630091 479463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Stanislav likes his sub-expressions to be executed in parallel < 1311630108 402775 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow i do too < 1311630119 95933 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's par for the course < 1311630136 957596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw what was that research you mentioned about automatic parallelisation... :D < 1311630154 20788 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mentioned something you didn't already know? < 1311630162 35594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ages ago :P < 1311630177 991260 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't haskell-related? < 1311630182 835196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was, I think < 1311630183 397116 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (also you manage that whenever oklopol ropes you into discussing mathematics for at least two lines) < 1311630210 913723 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i meant related to parallelisation < 1311630219 465894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1311630231 81383 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and haskell, for that matter < 1311630359 789296 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm despite lexicographic similarity, parallel list comprehensions are not it < 1311630385 56930 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it's not in ghc directly < 1311630392 433333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah it was research stuff < 1311630402 354875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you just said there were no good leads that you knew of :) < 1311630522 461777 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if it was _old_ i may simply have mentioned the realization that the overhead of fine-grained parallelism is too high for arbitrary automatic parallelization to have worked well in practice < 1311630544 106891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1311630554 266876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of feel like that's an artefact of our CPUs :/ < 1311630571 494024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, you know the Connection Machine? Feynman worked on it? < 1311630582 133711 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :only by name < 1311630604 65980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it had tens of tens of thousands of really simple processors with just a few kilobytes of ram each < 1311630617 71892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they operated on like single bits < 1311630624 59401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a hard time believing incredibly-fine-grained parallelism wouldn't pay off on _that_ < 1311630643 934038 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well but the actual overhead is in the shuffling of work to and from processors, surely. < 1311630657 63975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, certainly < 1311630664 49503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it had optimised routers for that < 1311630671 197100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you could communicate to nearby processors instantly... < 1311630679 84741 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are inherently sequential algorithms (e.g. euclid's algorithm) < 1311630684 687356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sure < 1311630689 227650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not denying that < 1311630692 572270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just mean for subexpressions < 1311630699 985968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like you could dedicate a few hundred CPUs in each region to scheduling and let it go < 1311630708 686806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for any subexpression that triggers some naive "big" predicate < 1311630727 982491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think the Connection Machine ever really got made again. < 1311630733 297487 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the thing is that automatic parallelization works badly with code that isn't "obviously" parallel because it still requires intelligence to find out which parts _are_ parallelizable < 1311630748 210987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1311630766 132581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this horrible feeling that it's going to be another super-wacky problem that solves this < 1311630780 734318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like functional programming solved the tangle of effects and dependencies problem < 1311630797 44069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the "lack of higher-order control structures" problem) < 1311630799 945076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1311630803 330170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/super-wacky paradigm/ < 1311630835 67664 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the current research afaik is about solving it by making it easy for programmers to write programs in such a way that the parallelizable parts _are_ obviously indicated. < 1311630850 776317 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not automatic < 1311630892 290269 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :paradigm/problem :D multi-paradigm languages should henceforth be multi-problem programming languages < 1311630895 588031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right < 1311630897 323623 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :program with many problems at once < 1311630900 294094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: mo paradigms mo problems < 1311630928 559948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think what I really have to do is continue on my path of a super-scaled-back @ as the short- and medium- and short-long- term goals. < 1311630955 43517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't just let it succumb to inertia on account of having a big unidentified blob at the centre, I have to try and tackle away at it bit by bit < 1311631002 791639 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan QUIT :Quit: 1... 2... 3... HUGS! :D < 1311631008 793498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hug bomb < 1311631017 626115 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ghcs elliott
< 1311631026 892627 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ghc < 1311631047 372292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :was going to make some horribly tasteless joke about norwegians, but decided i'm a better person than that < 1311631055 908514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess this is just as bad though < 1311631067 21790 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice horribly tasteless joke about norwegians, there < 1311631075 485098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're a horribly tasteless norwegian < 1311631076 332586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH SNAP < 1311631148 996298 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1311631170 235957 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: keep your jokes fnarfful < 1311631205 561195 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe that should be fnarfless, if fnarf is not taste < 1311631254 929505 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the other thing i might have mentioned would be http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/GHC/Data_Parallel_Haskell < 1311631278 505519 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how can you not know about that < 1311631366 77268 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1311631407 145194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right < 1311631502 529621 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311632077 460433 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1311632139 401544 :CakeProphet!~adam@h112.26.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311632139 513299 :CakeProphet!~adam@h112.26.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1311632139 565657 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311632495 169478 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311632555 434778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311633295 64142 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm gonna start signing my emails "Sent from my Cray X-MP" < 1311633325 310240 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :only if i can use "Sent from SPACE" < 1311633344 264347 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot. < 1311633671 749947 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this message sent from a tiny dust speck in space < 1311633940 529727 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia TOPIC #esoteric :"I wrote the program for my Master’s Thesis (a dynamic programming problem) in Turbo Pascal, so I got good at functional programming." -Robert Edwin Peary, Sr. | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1311634162 958022 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :turbo pascal can get you to the top of the world < 1311634198 45021 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or close to it < 1311634461 89664 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas regular Pascal is barely enough to get you up a moderate hill. < 1311635488 822340 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311636736 526102 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1311636884 609428 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle ByteString->IO () < 1311636884 701527 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString putStr :: ByteString -> IO () < 1311636884 754164 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString putStrLn :: ByteString -> IO () < 1311636884 754322 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString.Char8 putStr :: ByteString -> IO () < 1311636898 43511 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Data.ByteString putStrLn < 1311636898 115238 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. < 1311636902 747273 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Data.ByteString,putStrLn < 1311636902 817334 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. It can only be attributed to human error. < 1311636905 45920 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Data.ByteString.putStrLn < 1311636905 99576 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. There are some things that I just don't know. < 1311636909 607680 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src putStrLn < 1311636909 659551 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :putStrLn s = do putStr s; putChar '\n' < 1311636913 932706 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Data.ByteString < 1311636914 41088 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. I am sorry. < 1311637237 577427 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@package bytestring < 1311637237 669457 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/bytestring < 1311637316 858875 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i have n regexes, is it possible to compile them all into one optimized thing that will match if either one had matched? < 1311637323 542020 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a big or operator < 1311637433 655256 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: @src only has a small subset of sources. use hoogle or hayoo on the web. istr that hayoo searches all of hackage. < 1311637437 317173 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@list hayoo < 1311637437 389264 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No module "hayoo" loaded < 1311637440 450826 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1311637496 780474 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://holumbus.fh-wedel.de/hayoo/hayoo.html#0:putStrLn < 1311637541 744668 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that thing above is unlikely to be the ByteString version. although maybe they're identical.) < 1311637577 118823 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, are you smart with regex?? < 1311637597 61511 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, hayoo's source links are broken. the package name link should still work though. < 1311637635 342742 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or module link < 1311637669 163245 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_: well why not just put | between them? < 1311637758 768268 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if they contain | already.. hmm yeah then it works too i guess < 1311637775 599572 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether it's efficiently compiled i assume depends on the regex implementation < 1311637783 977364 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if postgresql regex is compatible with python regex < 1311637786 573848 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i would be god < 1311637800 384291 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno < 1311637807 763058 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea me either :-\ < 1311637852 244730 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/bytestring/latest/doc/html/src/Data-ByteString.html#putStrLn < 1311637862 204821 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :putStrLn = hPutStrLn stdout < 1311637937 890989 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection