00:10:32 <oerjan> ^def test bf ,[>+>+<[-[---->+++++<]>[-<+>]+<<[->[----->++++<]>[-<+>]<<[->+<[->+<[>[->+<]>++<<-[->+<]]]]]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<]<.,]
00:11:56 <oerjan> ^def test bf ,[>+[-[---->+++++<]>[-<+>]+<<[->[----->++++<]>[-<+>]<<[->+<[->+<[>[->+<]>++<<-[->+<]]]]]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<]<.,]
00:12:22 <oerjan> > map ord "K123A567F9"
00:14:42 <oerjan> ^test @ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP
00:15:00 <oerjan> > map ord "}ABCUEFGZIJK_MNO}"
00:15:01 <lambdabot> [125,65,66,67,85,69,70,71,90,73,74,75,95,77,78,79,125]
00:15:43 <oerjan> for the fractran program 5/4, yes
00:16:01 <oerjan> the @ there got multiplied 3 times, as it should
00:16:09 <elliott> oerjan: so you managed the mod-two thing?
00:17:32 <oerjan> technically i _still_ cannot get the check (which is actually for mod-four now) to escape the loop, but it _can_ be used to terminate it
00:18:37 <oerjan> with this new method there's no need to give mod 2 a special meaning
00:20:31 <oerjan> heh i think i ended up just making a single character change to the previous program which only applied 5/4 once
00:21:20 <oerjan> changing a 0 to 1, and vice versa, causing it to redo the loop with a new initial value instead of halting
00:21:57 <oerjan> and this ability to redo with a new value means there is no need to have a surrounding main loop
00:22:17 <oerjan> (well except that i'm reading in a list of chars, but that's different)
00:22:48 <oerjan> quintopia: in principle, but it requires combining the fractran fractions
00:23:18 <quintopia> i cant parse the algorithm in my head. whats the basic method?
00:23:25 <oerjan> say for the program 5/2, 5/3 i would need to combine the 2's and 3's into a branch modulo _6_
00:24:39 <elliott> quintopia: BTW, you're a good dorf.
00:25:51 <elliott> quintopia: 'quintopia' Okillòr, Gem Setter
00:26:28 <quintopia> oerjannnnn hows the mod check work?
00:27:04 <elliott> oerjan: (We've named the dwarves in our DF succession game after channel members.)
00:27:11 <quintopia> elliott: put me on a boat and let me explore hell. i was made to travel.
00:27:11 <elliott> oerjan: You're a carpenter.
00:30:25 <oerjan> quintopia: well it's essentially repeated decrement in a 4 level nested if
00:31:41 <oerjan> where each level first sets up the resulting registers _if_ the main register n has reached 0 by then, so that falling through gives the right behavior (halting or redoing)
00:32:46 <oerjan> after the ]]]] point, the cells are *0 n m+1 for redoing (m=0 when starting an entirely new number) or *0 r 0 for halting
00:33:26 <oerjan> each iteration which _doesn't_ let n reach 0, will decrement n by 4 and increment m by 4
00:36:44 <oerjan> it varies by level how the new n and m are constructed from the old ones.
00:37:39 <oerjan> but the outcome is the ability to branch on n%4, with either halting with some linear function of n/4, or redoing the whole loop again with one
00:41:02 <oerjan> so to do a fractran program 5/2, 5/3 you'd want to do a similar branch modulo 6.
00:43:01 <elliott> oh cute, oerjan has picked up the math monologuing from oklopol
00:43:18 <oerjan> elliott: erm quintopia asked
00:43:19 <elliott> admittedly quintopia asked :D
00:44:26 <zzo38> I don't like the "snow permanent" rule in Magic: the Gathering; I would prefer it be "snow object".
00:54:35 <elliott> quintopia: you're about to become implicit in a murder.
01:01:19 <zzo38> Would you anything write more ideas/opinions/comment/question based on my idea of new programming language? I also have some other ideas about it too.
01:02:59 <zzo38> * The program cannot have a main function; it must be linked with a module in a different programming language in order to compile it into an executable program.
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01:36:16 <Lymee> zzo38, can't self-host then.
01:37:49 <zzo38> Lymee: I know it can't self-host. There are other programming languages, too, that I wouldn't expect to self-host. However, if you really want to, you could write some stub that allows it to, I guess; and a program in itself could be able to generate this stub
01:41:15 <oerjan> ^def test bf ,[>++[-[----<+++++>]+<<[->[----->++++<]>[-<+>]<<[->+<[->+<[>[->+<]>++<<-[->+<]]]]]>[-<+>]>>]<<.,]
01:42:51 <oerjan> ^def test bf ,[>>+[-[----<+++++>]+<<[->[----->++++<]>[-<+>]<<[->+<[->+<[>[->+<]>++<<-[->+<]]]]]>[-<+>]>>]<<.,]
01:43:16 <fungot> oerjan: will that make life possible.
01:43:40 <elliott> "Here is the beginnings of my new "Turducken" fortress: A fortress that contains a volcano in it's center. Mostly submerged in this volcano will be another smaller fort, which will also contain an even smaller volcano."
01:44:07 <elliott> oerjan is organising a party ahahahaha HOW OUT-OF-CHARACTER
01:45:07 <oerjan> ^def test bf ,[>>+[-[----<+++++>]+<<[->[----->++++<]>[-<+>]<<[->+<[->+<[>[->+<]>++<<-[->+<]]]]]>[-<+>]>]<<.,]
01:45:30 * CakeProphet maintains a noble facade of bakery soothsaying
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01:58:44 <Gregor> The world of video games loathes the man with one eye and no thumbs.
01:58:51 <elliott> Gregor: You're also a dorf.
01:58:57 <elliott> A pretty good soldier, as it happens.
01:59:46 <elliott> Gregor: Well technically you're dead.
02:01:17 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
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02:01:27 <zzo38> Probably some game are more difficult if no thumbs
02:01:38 -!- Sgeo_ has changed nick to Sgeo.
02:02:10 <Sgeo> Eyes need to readjust
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02:12:44 <elliott> `addquote <Phantom_Hoover> You realise the micromanagement it took to make quintopia encrust my silver throne with emeralds rather than a jug?
02:12:48 <HackEgo> 568) <Phantom_Hoover> You realise the micromanagement it took to make quintopia encrust my silver throne with emeralds rather than a jug?
02:38:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has left ("Leaving").
02:38:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
02:40:59 <elliott> NihilistDandy: Lymee: Vorpal: Help.
02:41:55 <elliott> Lymee: OK so the fortress just got sieged.
02:42:27 <elliott> And I need help because I'm useless.
02:42:57 <elliott> Do... do I want my military to attack them?
02:43:14 <elliott> All of them at once? Okay.
02:43:30 <Lymee> I don't know if your military is strong enough, but.
02:43:47 <Lymee> The other option is to lock your gates.
02:43:56 <elliott> But I think a lot of them are already inside.
02:44:04 <Lymee> Send your military.
02:44:11 <Lymee> And close up sooner next time.
02:44:23 <elliott> Lymee: Uh, dude, I'm like two ticks after it told me there was an ambush.
02:44:29 <elliott> I can't monitor my traps twenty four seven.
02:44:37 <Lymee> You could add a detector animal.
02:44:39 <elliott> It only tells you there's an ambush after they become visible, apparently.
02:44:52 <elliott> OK, time to remember the keycombo to flip the lockdown lever.
02:44:57 <coppro> elliott: are you playing dwarf fortress
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02:45:07 <elliott> coppro: Yes. We're doing a succession fortress, and it might not live beyond me.
02:45:19 <coppro> I don't know what that is.
02:46:16 <elliott> coppro: Play a year -> pass it on to the next person -> repeat until it's dead.
02:46:30 <Lymee> Or purposefully slaughtered...
02:46:49 <elliott> Dammit PH, where is the lever???
02:47:33 <elliott> HAHAHA there's a pool of elf blood at my entrance.
02:47:46 <elliott> (I seized all the elves' possessions and murdered them and their donkey.)
02:47:58 <elliott> By the time they send something nasty the fortress will by Lymee's or monqy's.
02:48:24 <Lymee> Lymee will welcome them.
02:49:11 <elliott> Lymee: OK but seriously how can I find the lever I need to qaP on.
02:49:30 <Lymee> I'm quite sure there's a building list with "b" or "B
02:49:34 <monqy> I'll never be able to handle anything nasty
02:49:50 <elliott> Lymee: That's the build menu, isn't it.
02:53:30 <elliott> Lymee: Hmm, it looks like every one of the goblins is outside
02:53:46 <elliott> Should I cancel the military orders and just wait for them to go away?
02:53:57 <Lymee> Depends on if you think the military can handle them.
02:54:09 <elliott> Lymee: Well... they were started late last year, and it's now late summer.
02:54:16 <elliott> PH doesn't seem exceptionally confident in them.
02:54:18 <Lymee> What are their skills?
02:54:24 <elliott> They massacred the elves, but, well, elves have wooden weapons.
02:54:27 <Lymee> And what are the goblins armed with?
02:54:32 <elliott> Lymee: Wildly varying skills :-P
02:54:43 <elliott> I'm not sure what the goblins have.
02:54:53 <elliott> I mean, they will go away if I just lockdown long enough, right?
02:55:33 <Lymee> I'm not sure I've ever seen that happen.
02:56:06 <elliott> My lever doesn't appear to work.
02:56:44 <elliott> Yeah, OK, our militia commander Vorpal just died.
02:57:57 <elliott> Pretty sure Gregor II, our best soldier, is a goner.
02:58:01 <elliott> He's running from them in the wrong direction.
02:58:06 <Sgeo> Am I still alive?
02:58:27 <elliott> Sgeo: I think so; you're a boring administrator.
02:58:42 <elliott> Lymee: I wonder if they're not heading back to the fortress because they know you can't get in?
02:58:45 <elliott> Because I pulled the lever.
02:58:47 <elliott> I don't think it worked mind you.
02:59:00 <Lymee> I've had armies not rush in before.
02:59:51 <elliott> It's Vorpal's corpse that's not moving
02:59:54 <elliott> Vorpal's mutilated corpse at that
03:00:12 <elliott> Why are you heading for the river, Gregor II?
03:00:22 <Lymee> Suicidal tendencies.
03:00:34 <Lymee> Have you encountered a forgotten beast yet?
03:01:04 <elliott> Yeah this guy is so gonna die.
03:01:14 <elliott> He and/or she's boarded up safely.
03:01:26 <elliott> He and/or she's boarded up safely.
03:01:36 <elliott> Just gonna... leave it there.
03:01:50 <Lymee> Can you sic it on the goblins?
03:02:04 <Lymee> elliott, also, minor tip.
03:02:04 <elliott> Lymee: I... is that even possible?
03:02:11 <Lymee> High skill miners are good at killing things.
03:02:39 <elliott> Lymee: Dude. I'm not risking monqy. He is our only miner.
03:03:19 <MDude> What game are you talking about?
03:03:25 <Sgeo> Dwarf Fortress
03:03:32 <Lymee> There's a giant lake.
03:03:35 <Lymee> In the middle of a desert
03:03:47 <elliott> Lymee: Stop playing your game of DF and help me play mine
03:04:23 <elliott> MDude: If you don't know of it, it's like NetHack except instead of doing things, you order a large number of idiots to do them; and also it's about a thousand times more complicated, and at least twice as difficult.
03:06:09 <elliott> Lymee: Can I, like, specifically order Gregor II to come back inside? :-P
03:06:19 <Lymee> There might be an alert for that.
03:06:28 <elliott> It's on the highest default alert, at least.
03:07:05 <elliott> But military overrides that because dumb.
03:07:11 <Lymee> You have to make an emergency burrow of sorts and restrict everybody to it, I think.
03:08:32 <elliott> On Gregor II: "She is not a risk-taker. She is mostly unaware of her own emotions and rarely expresses them. She dislikes helping others. She is compassionate. She needs alcohol to get through the working day. She doesn't really care about anything anymore."
03:09:11 <elliott> Also her left foot is cut open, her left foot is bruised, her left lower arm is broken, her left lower arm is cut open, her left lower arm is oozing 'Gregor II' Cloistertrampled's dwarf blood [who else's? Also, best surname -Ed.], her right foot is cut open, her right upper arm is cut open, and her left lower leg is cut open.
03:10:07 <elliott> Lymee: I should just give up on Gregor II, huh.
03:14:33 <elliott> The goblins seem to be leaving.
03:14:36 <elliott> FUCKING HELL NIHILISTDANDY
03:14:39 <elliott> STOP CREATING MASTERPIECES
03:14:42 <elliott> YOU DO IT LITERALLY MULTIPLE TIMES A MINUTE
03:17:47 <Sgeo> Can't that be lethal if you're short on supplies?
03:18:30 <elliott> Sgeo: I don't think we are.
03:19:25 <elliott> I wish the goblins would make their way to the entrance or leave.
03:24:21 <elliott> itidus just got himself killed.
03:25:38 <elliott> Lymee: Well, the goblins are going through traps now.
03:27:31 <elliott> Lymee: Haha, I think the goblins are neutralised
03:27:36 <elliott> There's only three goblins not in cages
03:27:40 <elliott> And I think they're trapped between cages
03:27:50 <Lymee> You can't get trapped between cages.
03:28:00 <elliott> Well. They're standing perfectly still.
03:28:03 <elliott> With caves on each side of them.
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03:28:20 <Lymee> Wait, are they active traps?
03:28:27 <elliott> Lymee: The cage traps both have goblins in.
03:28:36 <elliott> where T = cage trap that is filled with a goblin.
03:28:44 <Lymee> That won't trap them, I don't think
03:28:47 <elliott> And then there's just floor eblow the bottom g.
03:28:51 <elliott> And to the right of the top g, for that matter.
03:29:06 <elliott> Lymee: One of them is ... standing on top of a goblin cage
03:29:21 <elliott> The other has two goblins on top of a cage.
03:29:44 <Lymee> Camping around I guess.
03:29:47 <Lymee> They seem to do that.
03:29:57 <elliott> I really, really want to get off alert soon, because there's human traders and I want to give them shit.
03:30:06 <elliott> But nobody can get to the depot.
03:30:09 <elliott> Because of my alert level.
03:30:15 <Lymee> Send your military at them.
03:30:19 <Lymee> They should be weakened.
03:30:40 <elliott> I only have to fight the tree that aren't trapped, right?
03:31:05 <elliott> My entire military squad is dead.
03:31:39 <elliott> There was only like three people.
03:32:23 * elliott tries to figure out which skill I need for military.
03:33:48 <Lymee> Siege Engineering is for building balista and stuff
03:34:21 * elliott decides to make quintopia a miner while he's at it, since we only have monqy, and quintopia is the only one with any other mining skills.
03:34:28 <elliott> So I guess he isn't doing that much.
03:34:43 <elliott> Lymee: So are there really no labours good for -- oh wait, military has its own set.
03:35:03 <Lymee> Pretty much the only non-military skill that can be used to kill stuff.
03:35:14 <elliott> monqy is a legendary mining, it seems.
03:35:33 <elliott> Lymee: Yeah, I just don't have any half-decent soldiers elft.
03:35:46 <elliott> Apart from MAYBE monqy, and I am NOT going to risk him.
03:36:09 <elliott> Besides, he's busy smoothing my bedroom floor ;-)
03:36:18 <elliott> Hmm, one of the goblins moved.
03:36:47 <elliott> Lymee: I mean, there's like over ten traps still for them to pass through.
03:36:51 <elliott> So they're practically guaranteed to get trapped.
03:36:54 <elliott> But I hate waiting for it.
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03:39:33 <elliott> Excellent, another one trapped.
03:40:01 <Lymee> I'm sure monqy can take care of them~
03:40:44 <elliott> Lymee: Let me try and explain :-P
03:41:02 <elliott> monqy's mining skill level: Twenty.
03:41:44 <elliott> Has any mining skills at all
03:41:55 <Lymee> With high enough quality pickaxes and some armor, a miner should be a good last resort. But...
03:42:02 <Lymee> No need to use a last resort =p
03:42:08 <elliott> But I'd lose my last fucking miner :P
03:42:11 <elliott> Yeah, these guys are gonna be trapped.
03:42:17 <elliott> I just need this one dude to walk in.
03:42:26 <Lymee> Seriously though, I'm quite sure mining is the easiest combat usable skill to train.
03:42:47 <elliott> I'm gonna ask for an extension of time with this fortress considering that I've lost... well, far too long, fighting these goblins X-D
03:42:55 <elliott> Lymee: Yeah, well, quintopia should learn it up now that I've designated him as one.
03:43:09 <zzo38> I noticed, Redmine still asks your SREG "nickname", "fullname", and "email" fields even if you have already registered, although it seems doesn't use them.
03:43:16 <zzo38> (Except when registering)
03:43:45 <elliott> Hmph, our still has no brew drink task going.
03:43:48 <elliott> T-Pain has been slacking off.
03:44:07 <elliott> Lymee: Think monqy could take on a single goblin in a field of traps?
03:44:17 <elliott> I am really getting sick of that guy.
03:44:29 <elliott> "His right lower arm is dented."
03:44:32 <Lymee> Shouldn't be a problem, but....
03:44:42 <elliott> If I recall monqy, he shouldn't have any problem getting back in.
03:44:47 <elliott> It's a single-file trap place.
03:44:55 <elliott> Apart from five blocks open to the right at one point.
03:45:09 <elliott> I'll give this goblin another minute or so.
03:45:20 <Lymee> Send in somebody on a random outside job as bait.
03:45:37 <elliott> I'm on too high an alert level for that.
03:45:47 <elliott> I could sacrifice someone, but they probably wouldn't kill the dude.
03:46:01 <Lymee> They encounter goblin.
03:46:04 <Lymee> Goblin gives chase.
03:46:08 <Lymee> Goblin gets trapped.
03:46:19 <elliott> Nah; the goblin's at the beginning of the trap plcae.
03:46:25 <elliott> So the goblin would just run in free space.
03:47:45 * elliott just removes the alert level out of curiosity.
03:48:00 <elliott> People are coming upstairs now.
03:48:06 <elliott> Hopefully it'll tempt the goblin to come here. :p
03:50:03 <elliott> OK, Sigun Artoboslan, who has basically no skill in everything, and is a milker, and who has no job, is gonna get sacrificed.
03:50:50 <elliott> Lymee: Will my militia squad commander fight if he's the only guy on a squad...?
03:52:17 <elliott> Doesn't... seem to be happening.
03:52:51 <cheater_> maybe he's just not good at fighting.
03:53:26 <elliott> Lymee: Umm, are you sure about that?
04:06:00 <elliott> And literally the best one ever.
04:09:08 <elliott> NihilistDandy: Only military has died so far
04:09:20 <elliott> NihilistDandy: But seriously, you create bags of the stuff on a regular basis
04:09:23 <elliott> You churn out masterpieces
04:09:48 <elliott> NihilistDandy: It's annoying enough that I want to turn off the messages about you creating a masterpiece
04:10:40 <elliott> NihilistDandy: Hey, do you play DF, I forget
04:11:04 <NihilistDandy> I've thought about it. I played for like 8 seconds the other day when you started talking about it, but I haven't gotten way into it, by any means
04:11:19 <elliott> NihilistDandy: So clearly you want to play in the succession game
04:11:43 <NihilistDandy> As in the next game? Or is "succession game" a technical term?
04:12:07 <NihilistDandy> Hopefully I'll survive and continue being masterful
04:12:34 <monqy> I should probably learn the controls before my turn
04:12:36 <elliott> NihilistDandy: Succession game = everyone plays a year, passes the fortress on, repeat
04:12:41 <elliott> monqy: There's an awful lot of controls.
04:12:52 <monqy> what should I learn befroe I start
04:13:01 <NihilistDandy> elliott: Hmm. Sure. I should probably play a couple of games before my turn, though
04:13:36 <elliott> NihilistDandy: "A couple of games"
04:13:38 <elliott> Games can last indefinitely :-P
04:13:43 <elliott> monqy: I dunno, go through the quickstart guide?
04:14:04 <monqy> probably either later tonight or tomorrow
04:14:21 <elliott> monqy: That could take a while ;-)
04:14:39 <NihilistDandy> elliott: Well, I need to play until I don't just die, then
04:15:00 <elliott> I think it's quite hard to just die early on
04:25:09 -!- MDude has changed nick to MSleep.
04:27:45 <zzo38> Please help the wiki https://devlabs.linuxassist.net/projects/texnicard/wiki/Dangelo_Programming_Language
04:28:25 <NihilistDandy> Well, I applied some skin or other to it, now. I have no desire to look at ASCII all night. I got nethack out of my system, thank you. (Okay, that's not quite true)
04:28:35 <NihilistDandy> But the interface is nice, overall, for a spreadsheet
04:29:58 <elliott> NihilistDandy: Oh come on, there's barely any micromanagement at all with a reasonable playstyle.
04:30:18 <elliott> There's even a job interface which makes everyone coordinate and fetch resources and craft things and put them in piles just from a task like "construct 99 beds" :p
04:30:38 <elliott> NihilistDandy: Honestly though, I have trouble believing any really-graphical set could convey the same amount of info the pseudo-textual set does
04:31:01 <elliott> Attempting to look realistic just decreases the number of possible designs
04:31:07 <elliott> And there's a fuckload types of block
04:31:30 <elliott> Plus sprites will always be bigger than the pseudo-text tiles, and so it'll pack less info onto the screen at once :-P
04:32:14 <elliott> NihilistDandy: Here's what I see, and I find that I strongly wish for a bigger viewing area: http://ompldr.org/vOXNobA
04:32:33 <elliott> Overground is much more complicated
04:34:52 <NihilistDandy> Would have been faster, but I didn't realize Dropbox wasn't "Lion-ready"
04:35:25 <elliott> Nice ... wand with a Wii strap.
04:35:46 <elliott> NihilistDandy: That's most definitely a very graphical set.
04:35:57 <elliott> And what kind of fort is that? Isn't that some mod?
04:36:07 <elliott> I like how it's fucked up your text
04:36:17 <elliott> Every . in text will look like that
04:37:08 <elliott> I wish they'd smooth my floor more quickly.
04:38:03 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night).
04:40:37 <elliott> Is oerjan just sitting there...
04:41:32 <elliott> These dorfs are incompetent.
04:42:36 <NihilistDandy> Well, shit. Now that I've removed the graphical set (i.e., I untar'd again), shit doesn't even run :|
04:44:35 <elliott> NihilistDandy: NOT ANOTHER FUCKING MASTERPIECE
04:45:20 <NihilistDandy> And you know what? I take it back. The text was *is* better
04:45:47 <NihilistDandy> Though what all this shit means, I can't begin to imagine
04:46:35 <elliott> NihilistDandy: Try using k to examine shit
04:46:41 <elliott> Quickstart guide is recommended, I read, like, half of it ;D
04:49:33 <NihilistDandy> elliott: Does it say what kind of masterpieces, or is it just "NihilistDandy created another fucking masterpiece"?
04:50:29 <elliott> I suppose I could look, but we just sell off bags of them instead
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04:51:30 <pikhq_> Oh, so you're a Congressman?
04:57:28 <fungot> elliott: he is so silly!!! :d divided by your number
04:57:32 <elliott> THEN THE HUMAN MERCHANT WENT BERZERK
04:58:27 <Lymee> Let the traps do the work.
04:59:22 <elliott> Lymee: I think maybe I locked them in??
05:02:07 <Lymee> Open a tunnel between them and the forgotten beast.
05:05:42 <Sgeo> luke-jr> Sgeo: if people are going to commit sexual abuse, they should be infected.
05:06:27 <elliott> Why are you in jesus again.
05:06:32 <elliott> I cba to type the octothorpe so deal with that ambiguity.
05:07:03 <NihilistDandy> I think the infection comes double if you sexually abuse jesus
05:07:29 <Lymee> It doesn't have to be non-consensual.
05:08:06 <elliott> OK seriously someone help me deal with this rmpage.
05:11:29 <monqy> not me im too legendarey
05:14:49 <elliott> monqy: I'll send you in if I have to.
05:20:52 <Sgeo> <luke-jr> opt1mus: women have too many "rights" today
05:20:52 <Sgeo> <opt1mus> luke-jr: which ones are too many?
05:20:52 <Sgeo> <luke-jr> everything's gone downhill ever since they were allowed to vote
05:20:52 <Sgeo> <opt1mus> oh dear.
05:20:52 <Sgeo> <luke-jr> maybe even before
05:22:16 <Sgeo> quintopia, #jesus
05:22:23 <Lymee> ohheyhowunexpected
05:22:31 * Lymee resists clicking for her sanity
05:22:39 * Lymee not in the mood to blow up on somebody
05:22:48 <elliott> Lymee: you cant blow up on luke-jr hes amazing
05:22:52 <elliott> is it him that supports book burning Sgeo
05:23:16 <Sgeo> elliott, I think there are several that support book burning
05:23:20 <zzo38> This game is bad because Hitler played it.
05:23:25 <Lymee> Sgeo, tell him that men have way too many rights.
05:23:39 <zzo38> This is the king's lava, please don't step in it.
05:26:17 <Lymee> I should join using the name "HaruhiSuzumiya"
05:26:27 <Lymee> Nobody will notice~
05:27:12 <Sgeo> Did I just say something luke-jr agreed with? I feel dirty
05:27:55 <Lymee> Should I join #jesus as "MadokaKaname" or "HaruhiSuzumiya"
05:29:01 <Lymee> Or would it be obvioustroll...
05:30:11 -!- MadokaKaname has joined.
05:30:43 <pikhq_> Meh, just ask "What reasons are there to think that a god exists?". That should leave them arguing for ages.
05:31:56 <Sgeo> pikhq_, luke-jr believes the Catholic Church can be proven to be authoritative through logic
05:32:05 <NihilistDandy> "HAI GUISE. I just read this awesome proof of God's existence. You should all go tell #math about it"
05:32:27 <pikhq_> Sgeo: Does he even have true premises?
05:32:46 <Sgeo> I don't remember if I've even heard his logic
05:33:13 <elliott> Gonna... handle that rampage tomorrow.
05:36:23 <elliott> NihilistDandy: How's your fort doing
05:37:07 -!- MadokaKaname has left ("Huggles for everybody~♪ ^_^").
05:37:18 <Lymee> Neither trolling nor arguing seems fun.
05:38:05 <elliott> Lymee: The best game is to see what they will believe in
05:47:11 <quintopia> i love "there is one authority that can interpret Scripture"
05:47:29 -!- Patashu has joined.
05:48:03 <Sgeo> quintopia, he's fundie Catholic
05:48:27 <elliott> someone talk about the da vinci code in there to rile them up
05:49:30 <quintopia> blahblahblah but jesus had a wife and they liked sexing blahblahblah
05:49:53 <quintopia> IT'S TRUE I SAW IT IN THE LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST
05:50:28 <quintopia> NihilistDandy: i dont care enough. you do it.
05:50:33 <Patashu> Solve puzzles to figure out how the syntax works
05:50:53 <NihilistDandy> quintopia: I'm too involved now. THEY MIGHT JUDGE ME
05:51:44 <elliott> Lymee: guy talked about burning the satanic bible in there
05:51:49 <elliott> Patashu: for some value of fsvo
05:52:27 <Lymee> So... why are we trolling again?
05:52:43 <elliott> Lymee: Who said you're trolling
05:52:57 <Lymee> Why are you trolling again
05:55:13 <Lymee> elliott, see what the reaction from saying negative things about God is.
05:55:59 <pikhq_> They think that God is a perfectly good being that endorses mass murder.
05:56:12 <pikhq_> That's going to be hella boring.
05:56:51 <pikhq_> NihilistDandy: The "They think" bit?
05:57:13 <NihilistDandy> I'm a perfectly good being that endorses mass murder
05:57:35 <pikhq_> I don't think you're perfectly good.
05:58:05 <Lymee> Call God a hypocrite.
05:58:14 <Lymee> Hopefully sparks fly.
06:00:35 <NihilistDandy> Sgeo: Do you hang out in there a lot, or are you *ONE OF THEM*?
06:01:22 <Sgeo> Hey, the channel owner said he considered making me an op...
06:01:28 <NihilistDandy> quintopia: He'll just say Honorius didn't do it ex cathedra so it's not infallible
06:06:41 <Sgeo> quintopia, I don't think he considers Pope John Paul II to be a pope.
06:06:45 <Sgeo> Or something, not sure
06:06:55 <coppro> Pope John Paul II is a pope
06:07:17 <quintopia> he was certainly a legally elected pontiff
06:09:08 <pikhq_> quintopia: He could be an antiPope.
06:09:40 <pikhq_> Though, to be an antipope the Church has to declare a pope to be that way.
06:09:52 <pikhq_> I'm pretty sure the Church is about to sanctify him.
06:10:04 <Sgeo> I may be mistake
06:10:40 <pikhq_> NihilistDandy: Erm, yes.
06:10:52 <pikhq_> NihilistDandy: Having never been Catholic, it's easy to screw up their terminology.
06:11:31 <NihilistDandy> Having only been Catholic in the sense of being baptized that way, I still really like all their silly arcana
06:11:55 <pikhq_> Judaism practically invented arcana. :P
06:12:11 * Sgeo has been unaware of Jewish arcana
06:12:17 <NihilistDandy> I almost converted just so I could look at my roommate's books
06:12:35 <Sgeo> I should add that this "racism" person is someone I've never seen in #jesus before
06:13:33 <elliott> `addquote <NihilistDandy> Having only been Catholic in the sense of being baptized that way, I still really like all their silly arcana <NihilistDandy> Judaism has them beat, of course <NihilistDandy> I almost converted just so I could look at my roommate's books
06:13:34 <pikhq_> Sgeo: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Sephirot Here, have fun.
06:13:35 <HackEgo> 569) <NihilistDandy> Having only been Catholic in the sense of being baptized that way, I still really like all their silly arcana <NihilistDandy> Judaism has them beat, of course <NihilistDandy> I almost converted just so I could look at my roommate's books
06:15:26 <pikhq_> And yes, that is esoteric in the *other* sense.
06:18:24 <zzo38> "This game is bad because Hitler played it." and "This is the king's lava, please don't step in it." are quotations from a computer game I made once
06:18:44 <pikhq_> I don't care whose lava it is.
06:19:47 <zzo38> How can you like this game without playing this game at first?
06:20:27 <zzo38> quintopia: No. It is not. Sorry. But I like text adventures too
06:21:32 <zzo38> It is a MegaZeux game.
06:23:12 <zzo38> Here is 2 screenshots http://www.digitalmzx.net/wiki/index.php?title=File:Ascmzxto.png
06:26:49 <Lymee> :t \l -> ceil $ (log (read (map (\x -> '5') l) :: Int)) / (log 10)
06:26:55 <zzo38> http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/mzx1/ASCMZXTO/ASCMZXTO.ZIP is download game world file, and http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/mzx1/mzx_extended/ is download MegaZeux itself (required for loading the world file in order to play game)
06:26:58 <Lymee> Super stupid length function, yay
06:27:19 <Lymee> :t \l -> ceiling $ (log (read (map (\x -> '5') l) :: Int)) / (log 10)
06:27:20 <lambdabot> arising from a use of `ceiling' at <interactive>:1:6-12
06:27:20 <lambdabot> Possible fix: add an instance declaration for (RealFrac Int)
06:27:30 <Lymee> :t \l -> ceiling $ (log (read (map (\x -> '5') l) :: Double)) / (log 10)
06:27:31 <lambdabot> forall b a. (Integral b) => [a] -> b
06:27:33 <zzo38> (You do not need to download "megazeux.4th" unless you are creating your own MegaZeux games and they are using Forth codse)
06:27:37 <quintopia> zzo38: what languages have you written games in
06:27:47 <Lymee> > ceiling $ (log (read (map (\x -> [1, 2, 3, 4]) l) :: Double)) / (log 10)
06:27:48 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Char'
06:27:56 <Lymee> > ceiling $ (log (read (map (\x -> '5') [1, 2, 3, 4]) :: Double)) / (log 10)
06:28:02 <Lymee> How stupid is this code?
06:28:11 <Lymee> @pl \l -> ceiling $ (log (read (map (\x -> '5') l) :: Double)) / (log 10)
06:28:12 <lambdabot> ceiling . (/ log 10) . log . (:: Double) . read . map (const '5')
06:28:21 <zzo38> quintopia: MegaZeux, ZZT, QBASIC, Game Maker, C, GameBoy machine codes, etc.
06:28:32 <lambdabot> Source not found. And you call yourself a Rocket Scientist!
06:28:53 <zzo38> I have made many games with QBASIC.
06:29:46 <zzo38> And TI-92 calculator.
06:30:25 <Lymee> Oh, does pl not support :: right?
06:30:34 <Lymee> :t ceiling . (/ log 10) . log . (:: Double) . read . map (const '5')
06:30:48 <Lymee> :t ceiling . (/ log 10) . log . read :: Double . map (const '5')
06:30:49 <lambdabot> Perhaps you intended -XRankNTypes or similar flag
06:30:49 <lambdabot> to enable explicit-forall syntax: forall <tvs>. <type>
06:30:56 <Lymee> :t ceiling . (/ log 10) . log . (read :: Double) . map (const '5')
06:30:57 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `Double'
06:30:57 <lambdabot> against inferred type `String -> a'
06:30:57 <lambdabot> In the first argument of `(.)', namely `(read :: Double)'
06:31:04 <NihilistDandy> @pl doesn't actually know anything about most things
06:33:47 <Lymee> :t ceiling . (/ log 10) . log . (\x -> read x :: Double) . map (const '5')
06:33:48 <lambdabot> forall b a. (Integral b) => [a] -> b
06:33:53 <Lymee> Which isn't really point free buttt
06:34:30 <Lymee> :t ceiling . (/ log 10) . log . read . map (const '5')
06:34:31 <lambdabot> forall b a. (Integral b) => [a] -> b
06:35:12 <Lymee> > (ceiling . (/ log 10) . log . read . map (const '5')) [1..10]
06:35:19 <Lymee> > (ceiling . (/ log 10) . log . read . map (const '5')) [1..10000]
06:35:21 <lambdabot> 179769313486231590772930519078902473361797697894230657273430081157732675805...
06:35:28 <Lymee> > (ceiling . (/ log 10) . log . read . map (const '5')) [1..1000]
06:35:29 <lambdabot> 179769313486231590772930519078902473361797697894230657273430081157732675805...
06:35:31 <Lymee> > (ceiling . (/ log 10) . log . read . map (const '5')) [1..100]
06:35:58 <Lymee> My super-convoluted len function broke
06:36:22 <Lymee> @pl \x -> foldl (+) (map (const 1) x)
06:36:32 <Lymee> > (foldl (+) . map (const 1)) [1..100]
06:36:32 <lambdabot> Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show ([[t]] -> [t])
06:36:50 <Lymee> :t \x -> foldl (+) (map (const 1) x)
06:36:51 <lambdabot> forall t a. (Num [t], Num t) => [a] -> [[t]] -> [t]
06:37:11 <Lymee> :t \x -> foldl1 (+) (map (const 1) x)
06:37:21 <Lymee> > (foldl1 (+) . map (const 1)) [1..100]
06:37:24 <Lymee> > (foldl1 (+) . map (const 1)) [1..100000]
06:37:27 <Lymee> > (foldl1 (+) . map (const 1)) [1..100000000]
06:38:19 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
06:38:39 <zzo38> I once programmed a Star Wars game into the computer, even though I have never watched Star Wars and don't actually know much about it.
06:38:41 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
06:38:44 <Lymee> > (foldl1 (+) . map (const 1)) [1..10000000]
06:38:47 -!- pikhq has joined.
06:38:56 <Lymee> > (foldl1 (+) . map (const 1)) [1..1000000]
06:39:02 <Lymee> > (foldl1 (+) . map (const 1)) [1..200000]
06:39:05 <Lymee> > (foldl1 (+) . map (const 1)) [1..300000]
06:39:10 <Lymee> > (foldl1 (+) . map (const 1)) [1..300000]
06:39:16 <Lymee> > (foldr1 (+) . map (const 1)) [1..300000]
06:39:25 <Lymee> > (foldl1' (+) . map (const 1)) [1..300000]
06:39:30 <Lymee> > (foldl1' (+) . map (const 1)) [1..400000]
06:39:32 <Lymee> > (foldl1' (+) . map (const 1)) [1..500000]
06:39:35 <Lymee> > (foldl1' (+) . map (const 1)) [1..600000]
06:39:37 <Lymee> > (foldl1' (+) . map (const 1)) [1..700000]
06:39:39 <Lymee> > (foldl1' (+) . map (const 1)) [1..800000]
06:39:42 <Lymee> > (foldl1' (+) . map (const 1)) [1..1000000]
06:39:45 <Lymee> > (foldl1' (+) . map (const 1)) [1..10000000]
06:39:48 <Lymee> > (foldl1' (+) . map (const 1)) [1..100000000]
06:39:57 <Lymee> > (foldl1' (+) . map (const 1)) [1..50000000]
06:40:03 <Lymee> > (foldl1' (+) . map (const 1)) [1..40000000]
06:40:08 <Lymee> > (foldl1' (+) . map (const 1)) [1..30000000]
06:40:13 <Lymee> > (foldl1' (+) . map (const 1)) [1..20000000]
06:40:16 <Lymee> Totally not bot abuse.
06:40:19 <Lymee> > (foldl1' (+) . map (const 1)) [1..25000000]
06:40:24 <Lymee> > (foldl1' (+) . map (const 1)) [1..27000000]
06:46:13 <Sgeo> The most annoying character to listen to in the Bible has got to be Jesus in the Gospel of Joh
06:46:44 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
06:46:46 <Lymee> > (foldl1' (const . (1 +))) [1..10000000]
06:46:54 <Lymee> > (foldl1' (const . (1 +))) [1..100000000]
06:47:26 <elliott> Sgeo: try not using an audiobook
06:49:02 <zzo38> Someone made a scientific experiment relating to copy protection. Copy protection does hurt sales. Unencrypted previews of works workout copy protection do slightly increase sales (and possibly save you money, too).
06:50:09 <zzo38> The experiment was only books, though, in this case. But evidence (but not any proper scientific experiment) has shown similar for other things too.
06:50:51 <Lymee> > (foldr1' (const . (1 +))) [1..100000000]
06:53:33 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
06:59:28 <NihilistDandy> [02:53:56] <luke-jr> racism: strings ~/.bitcoin/blk0001.dat -n21 | perl -nle 's/^.*(?=B)//&&print' | uniq | head -n13
07:01:09 <elliott> That's something to do with bitcoin at least.
07:01:15 <elliott> Has he explained that...............
07:03:05 <elliott> NihilistDandy: Got bitcoin installed?
07:07:17 <elliott> I stopped being vaguely interested in Bitcoin when it turns out that everyone is either incompetent, or incompetent and an anarcho-capitalist idiot
07:09:21 -!- derrik has quit (Quit: left).
07:12:48 <NihilistDandy> [03:08:39] <luke-jr> NihilistDandy: I am embedding the Divine Praises into the Bitcoin block chain.
07:12:51 <NihilistDandy> [03:11:02] <NihilistDandy> Yes, I suppose you could say that, in a sense
07:12:59 <NihilistDandy> [03:11:27] <luke-jr> that command line extracts them from it :P
07:13:58 <elliott> yeah the block chains can have like strings in them?
07:14:01 <elliott> so that's just... extracting the strings...
07:14:29 <Sgeo> So, this means luke-jr put a block with Divine Praises in the chain?
07:14:34 <Sgeo> Anyone want to find the block?
07:15:06 <Lymee> Is it even possible to do that?
07:15:11 <elliott> Sgeo: or he just made his own chain
07:17:53 <Lymee> Sgeo, ask him "in what language"
07:18:21 <Sgeo> Lymee, you do it?
07:18:25 <elliott> NihilistDandy: What was it with the racism anyway
07:18:27 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
07:18:29 <Sgeo> Oh, you're not on
07:18:33 -!- Taneb has joined.
07:19:02 <NihilistDandy> racism is not welcome in #jesus, despite his having the requisite zealousness
07:20:02 <elliott> "I've done haskell for about 5-6 years now" -- person who uses "return $ f $ unsafePerformIO x" in place of "f <$> x"
07:20:08 <elliott> because they think it's more readable
07:20:51 <Taneb> I've done Haskell for... two hours maybe?
07:20:59 <Taneb> And I have no idea what either of them do
07:21:00 <elliott> copumpkin: can you ban them with your mod powers............................
07:21:53 <copumpkin> elliott: I'm not sure what to make of that guy
07:22:15 <CakeProphet> Taneb: <$> is another name for fmap, which is the single method defined by the Functor typeclass.
07:22:19 <elliott> NihilistDandy: http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/jarp0/hi_guys_i_made_a_haskell_to_clojure_translator/ WARNING FLAMMABLE....................................................................
07:23:12 <CakeProphet> Taneb: for lists, fmap is equivalent to map. For most other monads, it does a similar "lifting" operation, changing a function of type a -> b to type f a -> f b
07:23:28 <NihilistDandy> "It would be a good idea for me to actually use the type system in this project though"
07:23:29 -!- Nisstyre has joined.
07:23:56 <elliott> newtype LC = LC (LC -> LC)
07:24:50 <Taneb> Applies a function over every member of the list
07:24:54 <Sgeo> NihilistDandy, Jason?
07:25:15 <elliott> Taneb: a Functor f has the function fmap :: (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
07:25:19 <CakeProphet> if you just say "map f" then you've lifted the function to a parametric type, in this case being []. So f, whose type was a -> b, is now lifted to the type f a -> f b, where f, in this specific case, is []
07:25:20 <elliott> Taneb: fmap f . fmap g = fmap (f . g)
07:25:31 <CakeProphet> fmap is the more general form of map. Where f can be any instance of the Functor typeclass.
07:25:32 <elliott> fmap f (fmap g x) == fmap (f . g)
07:25:38 <elliott> Taneb: That's all there is to know
07:25:57 <NihilistDandy> And why on earth would you translate Haskell to Clojure? Those words almost don't make sense when you say them all together like that.
07:25:58 <elliott> literally anything that satisfies those laws is a functor
07:26:07 -!- pikhq_ has joined.
07:26:09 <elliott> and you don't need any analogies to understand it :)
07:26:25 <pikhq_> Y'know how I know this person used commit -a?
07:26:36 <elliott> CakeProphet: really? most monad tutorials make people completely confused for weeks.
07:26:42 <elliott> the functor laws are really simple.
07:27:35 <pikhq_> CakeProphet: Y'know, a really awesome git tutorial would be a series of posts on *implementing git*.
07:27:54 <copumpkin> endofunctors form a nice monoidal category :)
07:27:57 <pikhq_> CakeProphet: Maybe people like this person would be able to actually grasp it after that.
07:28:13 <pikhq_> Or maybe not, since he's not "using the type system".
07:28:19 <CakeProphet> I have found that analogies can be helpful as well as just listing laws and definitions.
07:28:50 <CakeProphet> in some cases the laws can be obtuse and not very enlightening if you don't already know how to understand what they reveal.
07:29:05 <elliott> I'm still scared of that unsafeperformIO
07:29:11 <elliott> it's not like fromJust............................ it's like a hammer.................
07:29:12 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
07:29:13 <elliott> ok maybe it is like fromJust
07:29:19 <elliott> but that's fromJust's fault, not unsafePerformIO's unfault
07:29:45 <pikhq_> I'd argue fromJust is safer than unsafePerformIO.
07:30:02 <elliott> yeah but head isn't safe either
07:30:04 <copumpkin> with unsafePerformIO, I can cause segfaults
07:30:13 <elliott> copumpkin: yeah but how wide is the gap :)
07:30:29 <CakeProphet> unless you use GADTs, but then your list type becomes a bit wordier.
07:30:42 <elliott> copumpkin: I never said they were literally equal :-P
07:30:54 <pikhq_> elliott: unsafePerformIO $ Foreign.Storable.peek nullPtr
07:31:11 <copumpkin> oh, I meant even without foreign stuff
07:31:18 <copumpkin> you can write unsafeCoerce with unsafePerformIO
07:31:27 <pikhq_> copumpkin: Mmm, yeah, unsafeCoerce manages that.
07:31:30 <CakeProphet> I've never quite understood the purpose of unsafeCoerce...
07:31:32 <elliott> technically unsafeperformio is foreign stuff though
07:31:42 <pikhq_> CakeProphet: It's beating the type system into compliance.
07:31:50 <pikhq_> unsafeCoerce :: a -> b
07:32:45 <elliott> when the type system is too dumb
07:32:54 <elliott> (if you don't know exactly when you need it, you are not allowed to use it)
07:33:04 <CakeProphet> ah, so when elliott is trying to abuse Haskell.
07:33:20 <pikhq_> It's a "beat the runtime into compliance" button.
07:33:27 <elliott> CakeProphet: Yes. You are banned for life.
07:34:19 <pikhq_> "I've done haskell for about 5-6 years now" and he doesn't grok monads.
07:34:27 -!- mustelo has joined.
07:34:29 <pikhq_> That's genuinely scary.
07:34:47 <CakeProphet> some random guy. not worth the trouble, probably.
07:35:24 <pikhq_> Also doesn't know git well (or at all).
07:35:35 <CakeProphet> so would this break? unsafeCoerce (a :: Char) :: Word8
07:35:47 <pikhq_> That would break on GHC.
07:35:56 <CakeProphet> since Char represents Unicode characters right?
07:36:02 <pikhq_> I think unsafeCoerce (a :: Char) :: Word32 would work, though.
07:36:26 <CakeProphet> but there's probably already a way to do that
07:36:34 <shachaf> It depends on what "break" means, I suppose.
07:36:48 <CakeProphet> the meaning of "break" is quite straightforward...
07:36:52 <pikhq_> Yeah, I don't think it'd actually segfault, it'd just do something strange.
07:36:57 <shachaf> I doubt treating something as a Word8 would segfault.
07:37:12 <pikhq_> Probably like casting from int to char, actually.
07:43:02 <Patashu> didn't know haskell was so politically motivated!!
07:43:38 <elliott> Taneb: do you know what . is that is the KEY TO UNDERSTANDING WHAT I SAID.........
07:44:05 <Taneb> Is that like "returns"
07:44:20 <Patashu> . is 'wrap the function on the left around the function on the right'
07:44:30 <elliott> Taneb: a Functor f has the function fmap :: (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
07:44:32 <Patashu> it's like brackets except you're not writing all the brackets
07:44:34 <elliott> a Functor has to follow these rules
07:44:47 <elliott> fmap f (fmap g x) = fmap (\y -> f (g y)) x
07:45:00 <elliott> Patashu: that's dollar sign.
07:45:07 <elliott> stop confusing my student >:D
07:45:14 <elliott> <elliott> Taneb: a Functor f has the function fmap :: (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
07:45:14 <elliott> <elliott> a Functor has to follow these rules
07:45:14 <elliott> <elliott> fmap f (fmap g x) = fmap (\y -> f (g y)) x
07:45:19 <elliott> Taneb: literally anything that follows these rules is a Functor
07:45:19 <CakeProphet> elliott: I think it would be easier to explain that . is function composition, instead of rewriting everything as lambdas.
07:45:26 <elliott> Taneb: for instance, you know Maybe?
07:45:33 <elliott> Maybe is a functor: fmap :: (a -> b) -> Maybe a -> Maybe b
07:45:46 <elliott> if the maybe value is (Just a), then we do (Just (f a))
07:45:48 <CakeProphet> Taneb: . is function composition, by the way.
07:45:51 <elliott> otherwise, the result is just Nothing
07:45:59 <elliott> this satisfies all the laws (you can check it yourself)
07:46:10 <elliott> Taneb: lists are functors, obviously -- (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b]
07:46:17 <elliott> ([a] is just sugar for [] a)
07:46:29 <elliott> or just read the chapter in learn you a haskell :P
07:46:53 <elliott> CakeProphet: Nothing | Just t actually.
07:49:05 <CakeProphet> Taneb: you use Maybe t when there's a possibility that you might have Nothing instead of something of type t. Nothing is similar to "null" in other languages, except it's explicitly wrapped in a data type.
07:49:15 <elliott> Taneb: You might just want to read LYAH, dude
07:49:24 <elliott> It'll be quicker than me and CakeProphet fighting over who can explain things the worst
07:49:42 <Patashu> LYAH is lengthy but it's good
07:49:48 <Patashu> I mean you can't explain haskell consisely
07:49:50 <CakeProphet> hey you can assault him with formal definitions and I can provide analogy. It'll be a winning combination.
07:50:01 <elliott> it is fourteen chapters long
07:50:22 <elliott> although it covers a lot more and is good reading after LYAH
07:52:02 <CakeProphet> the null analogy was good, right? :( :( :(
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07:52:41 <Taneb> So, Nothing is like null, but proper?
07:52:53 <elliott> It's misleading because Nothing is not a value of every type.
07:52:58 <CakeProphet> kind of, you have to also wrap everything in the Just constructor
07:52:59 <elliott> It's best to forget null and learn Maybe later.
07:53:40 <Patashu> know what haskell needs? bitcoins.
07:53:59 <coppro> This is one case where qualification makes more clear
07:54:08 <coppro> Nothing is of type forall t. Maybe t
07:55:01 <CakeProphet> Taneb: so for example, [Just 2, Just 4, Nothing, Just 5] is a valid list, but [2, 4, Nothing, 5] is a type error.
07:55:36 <elliott> Taneb: read lyah read lyah read lyah
07:55:58 <Taneb> Once I've finished House of Leaves
07:56:52 <lambdabot> "LYAH LYAH LYAH LYAH LYAH LYAH LYAH LYAH LYAH LYAH LYAH LYAH LYAH LYAH LYAH...
07:57:07 <monqy> about what are we talking, now?
07:57:20 <Patashu> > fix ("learn you a " ++) ++ "haskell"
07:57:21 <lambdabot> "learn you a learn you a learn you a learn you a learn you a learn you a le...
07:57:24 <monqy> Taneb wants to learn himself a Haskell, I take it
07:58:13 <coppro> CakeProphet: are you aware of repeat
07:58:46 <coppro> yeah, repeat's the more specific one though
07:58:53 <Patashu> > take 500 (cycle "learn you a ")
07:58:54 <lambdabot> "learn you a learn you a learn you a learn you a learn you a learn you a le...
07:59:05 <pikhq_> Now that that's estabilished, C418's Minecraft - Volume Alpha is wonderful.
07:59:29 <CakeProphet> coppro: what do you mean the more specific one?
07:59:38 <elliott> pikhq_: didn't you listen to it when it came out............................
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08:00:39 <CakeProphet> if I wanted cycle from repeat, I would have to say join . repeat
08:00:57 <CakeProphet> which is less specific... I think? I'm still not sure what you mean by that.
08:00:58 <pikhq_> elliott: When it came out I didn't play Minecraft.
08:01:09 <lambdabot> cycle xs = xs' where xs' = xs ++ xs'
08:01:19 <lambdabot> forall (m :: * -> *) a. (MonadPlus m) => m a -> m a
08:01:24 <elliott> gah which one is monoid again :)
08:01:37 <elliott> > (fix . mappend) (\x -> 'a':x)
08:01:37 <lambdabot> Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show
08:01:40 <elliott> > (fix . mappend) (\x -> 'a':x) []
08:01:41 <lambdabot> "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...
08:02:14 <elliott> > (fix . mappend) (fix . mappend)
08:02:15 <lambdabot> Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> a)
08:02:20 <elliott> > (fix . mappend) (fix . mappend) (\x -> 'a':x ++ "b") []
08:02:21 <lambdabot> "ababababababababababababababababababababababababababababababababababababab...
08:02:30 <elliott> > (fix . mappend) (fix . mappend) (\x -> 'a':x ++ "b") "a"
08:02:31 <lambdabot> "aabaabaabaabaabaabaabaabaabaabaabaabaabaabaabaabaabaabaabaabaabaabaabaabaa...
08:02:36 <elliott> > (fix . mappend) (\x -> 'a':x) "abc"
08:02:37 <lambdabot> "aabcaabcaabcaabcaabcaabcaabcaabcaabcaabcaabcaabcaabcaabcaabcaabcaabcaabcaa...
08:02:42 <CakeProphet> yes, uh, beautiful. that's the word, elliott.
08:03:12 <elliott> > (fix . mappend) (\x -> pure 'a' `mappend` x) "abc"
08:03:14 <lambdabot> "aabcaabcaabcaabcaabcaabcaabcaabcaabcaabcaabcaabcaabcaabcaabcaabcaabcaabcaa...
08:03:20 <elliott> :t (fix . mappend) (\x -> pure 'a' `mappend` x)
08:03:20 <lambdabot> forall (f :: * -> *). (Monoid (f Char), Applicative f) => f Char -> f Char
08:03:27 <elliott> beautetauetouyoiful...........
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08:05:31 <monqy> > "abc" >>- (fix . mappend . return)
08:05:33 <lambdabot> "abacabacabacabacabacabacabacabacabacabacabacabacabacabacabacabacabacabacab...
08:06:59 <pikhq_> > "abc" >>- (fix . mappend . pure)
08:07:00 <lambdabot> "abacabacabacabacabacabacabacabacabacabacabacabacabacabacabacabacabacabacab...
08:07:50 <CakeProphet> > fromString "abc" >>- (fix . mappend . pure)
08:08:11 <monqy> overloadedstrings?
08:09:08 <CakeProphet> hey, like I said, they should have known better when they made it an extension.
08:09:41 <CakeProphet> to the perverse machinations of dark wizard programmers.
08:10:14 <monqy> but overloadedstrings abuse is so
08:10:21 <monqy> why not abuse something fun
08:10:43 <pikhq_> CakeProphet: You shouldn't be a dark wizard programmer.
08:10:52 <CakeProphet> what could be more fun than arbitrary and unsafe programming language interpretation?
08:11:07 <pikhq_> Writing good, clean code that functions correctly.
08:11:32 <monqy> writing a monad instance that doesn't obey the monad laws
08:11:47 <CakeProphet> but Haskell could sorely use a Sh newtype with an IsString instance...
08:12:53 <CakeProphet> hey it would even be safe and return the error output upon unsuccessful execution!
08:14:06 <monqy> what if it did bad things first....
08:14:19 <monqy> besides, runtime errors are awful
08:14:32 <monqy> "don't be stupid catch things at compile time"
08:14:38 <CakeProphet> and besides, don't think of as runtime error, just unexpected output!
08:48:27 <fizzie> "Don't think of it as a runtime error, think of it as a surprise birthday party."
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10:09:37 <Taneb> Well, now there are two MSPAFA's in the MSPA Forums called PixelQuest
10:11:08 <Lymee> @pl \maxIters c = len $ takeWhile (\x -> (magnitude x)<2) $ take maxIters $ iterate (\x -> x*x+c) $ 0 :+ 0
10:11:13 <Lymee> @pl \maxIters c -> len $ takeWhile (\x -> (magnitude x)<2) $ take maxIters $ iterate (\x -> x*x+c) $ 0 :+ 0
10:11:13 <lambdabot> ((len . takeWhile ((< 2) . magnitude)) .) . (. flip (iterate . (. join (*)) . (+)) (0 :+ 0)) . take
10:11:16 <Taneb> ...Can someone explain the Brane theory to me?
10:14:33 <elliott> there are breanes,, but sometimes they dont think
10:15:16 <Lymee> @hoogle unsafeCoerceIO
10:15:30 <lambdabot> Foreign unsafePerformIO :: IO a -> a
10:15:30 <lambdabot> Data.ByteString.Internal inlinePerformIO :: IO a -> a
10:15:30 <lambdabot> System.IO.Unsafe unsafePerformIO :: IO a -> a
10:16:15 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, it's... generally best to let physics well alone unless you're trying to actually learn it.
10:16:49 <Phantom_Hoover> You run the risk of ending up with an understanding of things which isn't really true, but more understandable.
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10:17:05 <Taneb> For this, that is exactly what I need
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10:18:31 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, in which case it seems to be along the lines of "there are objects called branes and other objects are really just branes in disguise."
10:19:30 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, will suggest to Stephen Hawking for his next book.
10:19:49 <Phantom_Hoover> (Universe in a Nutshell is full of quirky little illustrations like that.)
10:22:21 <elliott> I really think we need to ban the word "quirky".
10:23:04 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, no, we need to ban terrible people from using it and ruining it for the rest of us.
10:23:21 <Taneb> It can be restored
10:23:25 <Taneb> To its former glory
10:45:06 <Phantom_Hoover> "Fascism is anti-anarchist, anti-communist, anti-conservative, anti-democratic, anti-individualist, anti-liberal, anti-parliamentary, anti-bourgeois and anti-proletarian."
10:45:33 <Phantom_Hoover> How do you hate the bourgeoisie *and* the proletarians?
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11:27:09 <Phantom_Hoover> Argh, I now have a hit on ESR's website WHAT HAVE I BECOME
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11:48:41 <HackEgo> 5) <Warrigal> GKennethR: he should be told that you should always ask someone before killing them.
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11:56:13 <Phantom_Hoover> "The recent 'Halo' game has an interesting perspective on the construction of ringworlds. Instead of making it massive enough to encircle a star, make it the same diameter as earth. Here is my idea:
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12:07:02 <Phantom_Hoover> Huh, there are 3 different banks in Scotland which print banknotes.
12:07:13 <NihilistDandy> It's not unreasonable to think of recursion and induction as equivalent, is it?
12:07:39 <Phantom_Hoover> NihilistDandy, dunno, but RBS has pretty snazzy headquarters.
12:08:26 <coppro> NihilistDandy: induction is effectively recursive logic
12:08:46 <NihilistDandy> Good, then. I'm glad I haven't just been imagining that
12:09:43 <NihilistDandy> That's my plan. Agda, too, but mostly just for shits and giggles
12:10:22 <Phantom_Hoover> Hmm, apparently Scotland doesn't have legal tender at all.
12:10:33 <NihilistDandy> Maybe I'll have a run through Concrete Mathematics to test them out
12:15:41 <Phantom_Hoover> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Roman-calendar.png
12:23:40 <olsner> nice, they had leap months too
12:30:19 <Taneb> My attempt to make lambda calculus easy in BYOB is working!
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12:31:43 <Taneb> Modification of a programming language aimed at children with the purpose of educating about first-class functions, recursions, etc. for people aged 7-12
12:32:48 <Phantom_Hoover> I was given the option between learning Pascal, and learning Scratch.
12:33:06 <Phantom_Hoover> Scratch forced me into the arms of Pascal. I can never forgive it.
12:34:36 <Taneb> Oddly, Scratch is descended from Lisp
12:35:17 <Taneb> Bears no resembalence to it
12:39:29 <Taneb> Well, I've just cocked it up big time
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12:42:41 <Patashu> I hosted a java enterprise BYOB party. Bring Your Own Beans
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12:44:45 <Taneb> When I tried to evaluate something
12:50:44 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/jbhpp/how_does_one_program_a_programming_language/
12:52:07 <Taneb> Not the stupidest of questions
12:53:53 <Patashu> How about 'how do you compile a compiler'
12:54:20 <Phantom_Hoover> There's an answer dealing with it but... it refers to C++ as a high-level language.
12:55:02 <Patashu> Compared to punch cards it's very high level
12:55:31 <Patashu> Punch cards being a higher level than manual configuration
12:55:45 <olsner> punch cards are just an input method, not a language
12:55:53 <olsner> put C++ on punch cards, you still have C++
12:56:16 <Patashu> why doesn't my computer have a punch card reader? this is outrageous
12:56:19 <Patashu> it can't even read a floppy
12:57:15 <olsner> do you have a scanner? just put some black paper behind the card, scan it, then read the blacks and whites from the picture
12:57:28 <olsner> (assuming white punch cards)
12:58:21 <Patashu> But how will I emulate the ability of a lace card to jam it then
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19:27:12 <zzo38> I have these 3D movie glasses, I realized that when looking at the computer screen through it, it changes the color based on not only the angle but also whether or not it is backwards
19:28:14 <zzo38> Forwards the angle changes yellow/blue. Backwards the angle changes light/dark. (This is even without wearing the glasses)
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19:33:18 <Taneb> Polaroid glasses, I presume?
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19:37:02 <ais523> today I did something I should have done ages ago
19:37:05 <ais523> I mapped Caps Lock to Compose
19:37:26 <Deewiant> Do you use Compose enough to make that worthwhile?
19:38:33 <ais523> no, but only because I don't have a Compose key
19:38:43 <ais523> I expect I will now, I type nonASCII characters quite a lot
19:39:03 <ais523> although, annoyingly, KDE programs don't seem to respect the keybinding
19:41:39 <ais523> I probably need to add new compositions to it, though
19:41:47 <ais523> it seems a little short on things like mathematical characters
19:42:12 <zzo38> I got a mirror to see what can be done with the 3D movie glasses, the computer screen, and the mirror, together.
19:49:06 <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, wait, you didn't use something to the right of the spacebar?
19:49:29 <ais523> I have backslash, menu, and control there
19:49:33 <ais523> I considered mapping it to menu
19:49:45 <ais523> but I actually use that one sometimes
19:52:29 <fizzie> Caps-lock to control is a traditional remapping.
19:52:38 <fizzie> That would free control for compose.
19:52:51 <ais523> but I find control in a more convenient place than caps lock
19:53:43 <fizzie> So do I, but presumably many people think capslock is easier to reach.
19:54:20 <ais523> it's because most people keep their fingers on the home row, and caps lock is quite easy to reach from there
19:54:30 <zzo38> Then where do you want caps lock to be?
19:57:46 <Deewiant> I've swapped caps lock and backspace
19:58:44 <ais523> I suppose backspace is a bit of a long way away
19:59:02 <ais523> but normally when I'm pressing backspace, it's because I've made a typo, so I need to stop and recentre my fingers anyway
19:59:23 <Deewiant> I also have a Japanese keyboard so my backspace is smaller
19:59:34 <pikhq_> And your space is teensy.
19:59:35 <Deewiant> But I did the switch before getting such a keyboard anyway
20:00:06 <Deewiant> The space bar is fine, its edges are right where I always hit it
20:00:43 <pikhq_> Y'mean you always hit it under v or n? You have freakish hands.
20:01:01 <ais523> my spacebar goes from halfway past c to n
20:01:18 <pikhq_> ais523: Japanese keyboards have extra keys on that row, so the space bar is tiny.
20:01:22 <Deewiant> It's from halfway along c to halfway along m here
20:01:30 <zzo38> I think in some keyboard the "rub out" key is in the home row for that purpose
20:01:32 <pikhq_> Like, reaching from half of v to half of n. tiny.
20:01:32 <ais523> pikhq_: this keyboard has ` and \ on that row
20:01:45 <ais523> as well as two alts, two controls, menu, fn, and super
20:02:25 <pikhq_> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/MacBookProJISKeyboard-1.jpg
20:02:32 <pikhq_> That has a *generously large* spacebar.
20:03:10 <pikhq_> It's a laptop keyboard.
20:03:39 <pikhq_> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/29/Japanese_keyboards.jpg These ones are a bit more typical.
20:03:56 <copumpkin> you don't use spaces much in japanese
20:04:35 <Deewiant> Mine has this layout http://www.diatec.co.jp/image_prod/FKBN91MCJB2_01.jpg
20:05:12 <pikhq_> copumpkin: The space bar on Japanese computers is used to request IME conversion.
20:05:16 <pikhq_> It's rather extensively used.
20:05:48 <pikhq_> About as much in English, in fact.
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20:11:26 <zzo38> If I have five pins: data-in, data-out, clock, power, ground; what is the best way to wire it on a RJ-45 cable?
20:13:15 <zzo38> At a range of 1 to 40 feet
20:19:05 <oerjan> does anyone know of a known name for this modulus branching machine i've been finding when generalizing my 3-cell bf algorithm
20:20:23 <oerjan> let's say it's described by k tuples (a1,b1,c1), ... , (ak,bk,ck), ai > 0, bi >= 0, ci \in {0,1}
20:21:41 <oerjan> and it does f n = case n `divMod` k of (x,i) -> if c i then f (a i * x + b i) else a i * x + b i
20:22:39 <oerjan> (ai and bi are natural numbers)
20:24:33 <oerjan> basically each step does a linear function dependent on the modulus, and may halt or not
20:27:40 <oerjan> it's obviously too simple not to have been invented before, but i don't find any promising search results
20:28:30 <oerjan> also, why is there swedish sex spam on the wiki.
20:29:08 <zzo38> Do you know answers of my question?
20:29:31 <oerjan> no one knows any answers here.
20:31:06 <zzo38> Which channel do they know the answers?
20:33:35 <oerjan> i'm afraid we don't know the answer to that either. #omniscience appears to be empty.
20:35:57 <Sgeo_> http://www.archive.org/details/Tags12345-ATHEISMISSOFOOLISH922-2
20:36:48 <ais523> zzo38: I don't think there is a best way to wire an RJ-45 cable like that, because it's not intended for that sort of signal and doesn't have dedicated power lines
20:36:59 <ais523> all eight of its wires are identical, and the pinout won't be compatible no matter what you do
20:37:01 <zzo38> My idea is so that it can work with common network cables even though the protocol (and maybe even the power) is different.
20:37:06 <ais523> so you may as well just use an arbitrary assignment
20:37:20 <ais523> it won't work with common network cables, because RJ-45 doesn't have a clock line nor power lines
20:37:35 <zzo38> Would it be better to pair certain signals?
20:37:36 <ais523> and it uses twisted pair logic levels
20:38:46 <zzo38> I know. However such cables are just very common, which is why I want to use them. It is not intended to be connected to any network device
20:39:43 <ais523> you aren't going to be able to be compatible, and you aren't using paired logic levels
20:39:55 <ais523> I'd say, put data-in, data-out, clock all in different pairs, to try to avoid crosstalk
20:40:10 <ais523> and then put power in the fourth, and connect ground to the other side of all four of them
20:40:20 <ais523> that'll mostly prevent the manufacture of the cable hurting
20:40:39 <zzo38> Thanks for the idea. OK.
20:41:10 <ais523> you're not going to get 40 feet like that unless the clock rate is pretty slow, though
20:41:36 <zzo38> How slow? I don't need it very fast, so maybe it is OK.
20:41:52 <ais523> bleh, I'm no good at that calculation
20:41:56 <ais523> kilohertz are probably OK, though
20:42:14 <ais523> megahertz, I have no idea
20:42:41 <zzo38> I doubt I need more than 4 kHz, and even that might be faster than I need.
20:43:01 <ais523> then you'll probably be OK
20:45:50 <zzo38> OK thanks for information
20:55:50 <oerjan> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
20:56:34 <Sgeo_> Has Diaspora fixed its security issues yet?
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21:11:51 <cheater__> zzo38, you'll take each of the leads (data in, data out, clock, power) on a separate pair each, and then each of those pairs is hooked up to ground
21:12:19 <cheater__> make sure not to put power on the weaker pair (i believe that's brown, there's one pair that is thinner)
21:12:34 <cheater__> you can probably use that for clock then
21:15:59 <fizzie> Since it's almost even on-topic here... there was a rather funky piece of hardware on the next table at this demoparty I was; the "Speccy2010". To quote the summary: "It’s a Spectrum clone developed in the Ukraine, which replicates the original 48 and 128K Spectrums -- built around an FPGA programmable logic chip which can be reflashed with new firmware versions --"; so it's basically a general-purpose FPGA thingie that comes preloaded with a speccy simulator.
21:16:57 <zzo38> cheater__: Thanks for that advice too. (I didn't know there was a weaker pair)
21:17:49 <cheater__> i think they stopped doing that in cat 5e
21:18:58 <fizzie> oerjan: I read your A{80} as an answer to the :t, and thought "well that's a curious type".
21:19:44 <oerjan> it's the type of a lambdabot absence
21:21:01 <zzo38> If you have Haskell installed just use that
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21:22:28 <zzo38> Wikipedia has a list of USB device classes. I propose adding class 90h for Plan 9 Protocol.
21:23:58 <oerjan> zzo38: no, because i was trying to find out lambdabot's weird mappend instance for functions
21:24:19 <oerjan> i do not believe there is a standard one
21:24:42 <zzo38> oerjan: Is lambdabot difference from standard? Is it possible to download a local version of lambdabot?
21:24:44 <oerjan> otherwise, i could also use EgoBot sometimes
21:25:26 <monqy> mempty is identity function and mappend is function composition?
21:25:32 <oerjan> zzo38: lambdabot has a lot of extra or weird definitions and instances. for example it defines (.) = fmap
21:25:51 <oerjan> monqy: that's what it looked like, but it's not the only possibility
21:26:06 <oerjan> you could also have Monoid b => Monoid (a -> b)
21:26:30 <oerjan> and lambdabot has many other instances of that form, like for Num
21:26:34 <zzo38> But do you know if it is possible to download a local version of the program?
21:27:22 <oerjan> zzo38: oh. yes it is possible to download lambdabot, and i think even to use it from inside ghci. but i've not tried it myself, and istr people complaining that it is awkward sometime in the past
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21:27:48 <oerjan> also you probably need linux for it
21:28:08 <oerjan> (that's also something istr)
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21:29:21 <zzo38> Can it be compiled for Cygwin or other UNIX systems other than Linux?
21:29:40 <oerjan> i don't know. check the online documentation.
21:30:01 <oerjan> (hopefully there is some.)
21:30:37 <oerjan> i think they've reworked some of lambdabot since my #haskell time.
21:32:57 <oerjan> http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Lambdabot
21:33:11 <oerjan> although it looks like it's not up to date on ghc versions
21:33:35 <oerjan> (ghc is on version 7 now)
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21:44:18 <zzo38> Lambdabot includes Unlambda and Brainfuck, but does it include Lazy-K?
21:44:37 <oerjan> not unless you make a plugin for it
21:45:41 <zzo38> Maybe a better question is whether or not it should.
21:46:08 <oerjan> i suspect the unlambda and brainfuck plugins are not that heavily used
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21:47:58 <zzo38> I found a .lhs file that uses .lhs so that it can include a #! line
21:49:36 <zzo38> http://www.augustsson.net/Darcs/Djinn/Setup.lhs
21:50:06 <zzo38> Although from what I have read, I don't think that is valid, because a blank line is required before the > line
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22:35:04 <Sgeo_> Phantom_Hoover, elliott update
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22:36:38 <Sgeo_> Phantom_Hoover, my mind is full of fuck
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23:42:09 <lambdabot> forall a b. (Monoid b) => (a -> b) -> (a -> b) -> a -> b
23:42:35 <oerjan> aha so it _was_ the same kind as the Num thing
23:43:52 <oerjan> > mconcat [show . length, head] "test"
23:43:55 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Char'
23:44:10 <oerjan> > mconcat [show . length, take 1] "test"
23:44:27 <oerjan> > mconcat [show . length, take 1] "test"
23:46:02 <oerjan> > iterate (mconcat [show . length, take 1] <=< group) "1"
23:46:04 <lambdabot> ["1","11","21","1211","111221","312211","13112221","1113213211","3113121113...
23:46:46 <copumpkin> > iterate (sequence [length, head] <=< group) [1]
23:46:47 <lambdabot> [[1],[1,1],[2,1],[1,2,1,1],[1,1,1,2,2,1],[3,1,2,2,1,1],[1,3,1,1,2,2,2,1],[1...
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23:56:38 <zzo38> Which Computer Modern or AMS symbol should I use to represent the = in Haskell?
23:58:09 <zzo38> I use the equal sign for the Haskell == instead since that is the one testing equality, so == print out using the equal sign.
23:59:14 <ais523> zzo38: you should probably use the define-equal symbol
23:59:24 <ais523> I forget what it's called in the fonts
23:59:29 <ais523> but it looks like an = with "def" or a triangle above it