00:00:04 OK thanks. Yes, "define-equal" is a good name to describe what = means in Haskell. I will use the = with triangle above it. 00:00:57 OK, I worked it out. 00:01:03 s/out/now/ 00:09:20 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 00:10:20 "I'm also not making any profit off of this, therefore fair use, so HA!" 00:10:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfecIEHoYN0 00:10:53 is that some sort of variant on "no copyright intended"? 00:12:02 I am trying to decide some of the symbols to use for various Haskell stuff by http://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-unicode-symbols but some seems missing or difficult a bit 00:12:30 Such as, there is no asterism symbol 00:12:42 Although maybe I can try to fake it. 00:14:04 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:16:26 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:16:43 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 00:16:59 -!- sebbu has joined. 00:16:59 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 00:16:59 -!- sebbu has joined. 00:26:34 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:27:58 -!- MDude has joined. 00:28:23 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 00:28:24 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 00:29:10 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 00:32:04 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:35:41 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 00:37:41 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 00:37:41 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Changing host). 00:37:41 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 00:45:39 -!- Sgeo_ has changed nick to Sgeo. 00:48:58 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:51:45 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 00:55:31 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 01:11:54 -!- evincar has joined. 01:12:27 -!- cheater_ has joined. 01:15:49 -!- cheater__ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:25:45 How should the _ of Haskell be typeset using mathematical symbols? 01:26:13 I don't know, I don't think I've seen the equivalent used in a mathematical paper 01:26:21 unless it was quoting a Haskell-like language, in which case it used _ 01:26:37 Zen bred tomato 01:28:50 I don't think just using _ looks very good in a mathematical paper, or at least not as is. Also, what symbol should represent the $ operator in the printout? 01:29:23 zzo38: You should probably just wrap the expression in parentheses if you're not going to use $ 01:29:46 zzo38: you should replace $ by parens, I think 01:30:29 I can use a dollar sign on printout too, I guess; I should not make it change everything around it instead of typesetting the operator itself. 01:30:31 And I suppose _ could be thought of as "all x", though it's really not that clear cur 01:30:34 *cut 01:32:05 Or define some meaningless variable and let people know ahead of time 01:33:37 Maybe I should just use a rule box that touches or is slightly below the baseline, although the default underscore symbol is not so good for mathematics 01:34:19 zzo38: Are you using lhs2tex? 01:34:26 No. 01:34:29 I am using Plain TeX. 01:35:05 Apparently lhs2tex has some pretty useful modes of operation that might save you some trouble 01:35:28 aha, the formalism i came up with is essentially what conway called a collatz function. and he proved it TC by reduction - from fractran :P 01:35:33 To use this program the thing you have to do is simply to type at the top of the file: \input prettybird 01:35:51 And now you can typeset Haskell program with TeX. 01:35:55 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:39:12 Anyways lhs2tex is both an external program and is using LaTeX rather than Plain TeX. 01:41:44 There is also lambdaTeX but it is not quite right either, it is using Helvetica fonts and PDF rather than Computer Modern, AMS, and DVI. 01:46:28 Currently I have no support for pragmas and Template Haskell, although I hope to add those things in the future. 01:47:11 zzo38: you should replace $ by parens, I think <-- not all uses of $ can be replaced by parens. in particular ($ x) sections may not have any obvious replacement. 01:48:17 oerjan: (. x)? 01:48:27 or, wait, no 01:48:30 $ is more like space 01:48:44 zzo38: clearly you should replace $ by that invisible function application character from Unicode 01:48:44 ok there's one alternative: (`id` x) 01:48:58 but i doubt that's an improvement :P 01:50:17 i had the impression there was already a sort of convention for how to print haskell in papers, implemented with hs2tex (although zzo38 won't like it because it is latex) 01:50:46 ais523: I don't think so because it is not Unicode and $ has different operator precedence so it should not be made invisible. For now I just made it use the dollar sign. 02:13:12 zzo38: You could go culture-neutral and use the currency sign (U+00A4). 02:15:33 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:16:06 Or go in favor of our glorious Chinese overlords and use ¥. 02:17:31 -!- micahjohnston has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:17:45 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 02:17:46 I thought the yen was a Japanese currency? 02:17:52 (and why is that not on compose Y =?) 02:18:29 Because it's = Y. 02:18:49 And ¥ is the symbol for both the JPY and the CNY. 02:19:12 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 02:19:18 oh, it has to be capital Y 02:19:29 but it can be done either way round 02:19:50 And makes sense for approximately the same reason. "Yuan" obviously can be shortened to "Y", and sticking = through it makes it look like other currency symbols. 02:20:15 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Client Quit). 02:20:16 Though "yen" *itself* makes no sense for the Japanese currency; it's "en" in Japanese. 02:20:42 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 02:22:19 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 02:27:06 -!- micahjohnston has joined. 02:28:01 -!- tyoc213 has joined. 02:28:58 pikhq_: It's a holdover from the old misguided Portuguese transliteration. 02:30:15 Japanese /e/ used to be pronounced [je]. 02:31:11 evincar: That that was probably also before grid-ordered Japanese alphabet is invented, I think? Is it? 02:33:09 Can something similar to https://devlabs.linuxassist.net/projects/texnicard/wiki/Dangelo_Programming_Language be invented by making a preprocessor for Haskell that does some of these things? 02:33:50 Uh, the old transliteration is 16th century. I don't know which collation (gojuon or iroha) is earlier. Probably iroha. 02:34:12 evincar: Japanese /ye/ used to be a real phoneme, rather. 02:34:21 Iroha is the old collation. 02:34:35 iroha is the only reason japanese doesn't suck 02:34:40 evincar: I think yes it is iroha is the old order, now it is usually grid order being used. 02:35:05 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:35:06 And no longer usable, due to both containing morae that don't exist and missing morae that now do exist. 02:35:39 wow you guys are pretty smart 02:35:39 Well, /we/ and /e/ were both [je], but it's always been dialectic. 02:35:50 But must have someone added the new ones into iroha order in case you want to use that one? 02:36:07 Smart, maybe, but also resourceful when it comes to searching to back up hunches. 02:36:13 zzo38: No. "Iroha order" is actually a poem. 02:36:26 Right. Like the origin of solfege. 02:36:30 i may well be the only one present who doesn't know the word iroha 02:36:30 it's a poem that's used to order the alphabet 02:36:42 "Iroha" being the first three morae of the poem. 02:36:49 itidus20: I didn't know the word, but I knew what it was referring it to, so I figured out the meaning of the word from context 02:36:50 Then can you make a modified version of the poem? 02:36:58 ah 02:37:01 Also the name of the poem. 02:37:22 zzo38: It'd require translation. 02:37:37 Does it use many words that no longer exist? 02:37:56 No, but sound changes have happened in the intervening years. 02:37:59 Rather, it uses a radically different orthography. 02:38:36 When "kyō" (kiȳô) was written "kefu" (kehu). 02:38:59 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:39:15 I suppose that is why grid order is used now, since it is more logical and does not require any poem to be made up, and that you can easily see how to fit everything into the grid 02:39:30 It also completely omits voicing marks (which were inferred from context) 02:39:47 pikhq_, ... 02:40:23 wait, then how do you use iroha with voiced mora? 02:40:41 "Iroha" only orders the basic kana, sans "n". 02:40:59 (which was not distinct from "mu" at the time) 02:41:22 So, "you don't". 02:42:45 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 02:43:07 If you want to include voice in the order, you can use Unicode order or "almost Unicode order" (both are basically like grid order). 02:44:21 (Almost Unicode order moves the characters added to later versions into the places where they would belong if they were all added in the first version of Japanese character encoding (whether Unicode or not)) 02:45:05 The later characters only exist for the sake if Ainu. 02:45:09 (Actually I just invented that now. I don't know about other thing) 02:45:24 And only in katakana. 02:45:26 s/if/of/ 02:46:25 Actually MS Gothic includes the letters named "VU", "SMALL KA", and "SMALL KE", all are at the end. 02:47:53 This is what I mean; I don't mean Ainu. Although if you did use the Ainu characters as well, then you would move those too. 02:49:29 I think those wouldn't really be in the collation... 02:49:46 I don't think I've ever seen xka or xke in use at all. 02:49:55 And ù only rarely. 02:50:24 i may well be the only one present who doesn't know the word iroha <-- no. 02:50:32 It'd be a bit like collating ſ. 02:53:51 I suppose if you want to you can also order "ka" equal to "ga" (which, as far as I know, should work in both grid order and in iroha order). But then you would still need a tiebreaker 02:53:56 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:54:18 What is the most common way in Japanese? 02:54:23 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 02:55:31 Voicing as tiebreaker. 02:56:01 Or collate via radicals, for kanji-only collation. 02:56:07 (e.g. in a kanji dictionary) 02:56:32 Unicode order just orders "ga" directly after "ka" which can work. You can also do this with almost Unicode order if you prefer. 02:58:10 TeXnicard's collation algorithm allows some level of customizability, and is sophisticated enough to order roman numerals from I to XXXIX but it cannot do everything. (But you could add a separate collation field if you needed to) 02:58:35 One limitation is it only supports alphabets up to 64 letters 02:59:15 64 isnt a lot 02:59:34 I'd be interested to read literature on why Unicode uses fully composed characters rather than radical-based composition. 02:59:50 It'd make the CJK section so much neater. 02:59:54 And allow for new characters. 03:00:33 I guess they didn't want to deal with specifying a hanzi/kanji/hanja layout algorithm. :P 03:00:41 Yes, I know. Although you could use double cell encoding to overcome this limit, and then use ligatures or whatever else to do printout, and exporting, as well as converting single to double when doing input. 03:01:05 hmm .. does 64 include uppercase? 03:01:12 as in abcABC? 03:01:29 Hussie, Phantom_Hoover update 03:01:46 itidus20: Uppercase are considered equal to lowercase, with the exception that lowercase are not considered when collating roman numerals. 03:01:55 Sgeo, I'm flattered by his interest. 03:01:56 Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 03:01:57 ah 03:02:19 * Phantom_Hoover → sleep 03:02:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:03:17 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:03:25 These are simply the conventions of Plain TeXnicard; if you override it, you can make it not consider anything for roman numerals, or treat punctuation as letters, or whatever you want. 03:04:55 (And you are not even required to use Plain TeXnicard; you can also write your own metatemplate, although Plain TeXnicard does set up a lot of the things that primitive TeXnicard does not have, and that includes even such things as function composition.) 03:06:29 Here is the Plain TeXnicard metatemplate file: http://repo.or.cz/w/TeXnicard.git/blob_plain/HEAD:/system/plain.cards 03:10:45 It also includes the stuff for numbers to words, plurals, table operations, string operations, function composition, delayed execution, and more. It is currently incomplete. 03:12:46 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:16:46 -!- mustelo has left ("Ex-Chat"). 03:17:11 -!- azaq23 has joined. 03:38:45 How should https://devlabs.linuxassist.net/projects/texnicard/wiki/Dangelo_Programming_Language be done: * A preprocessor to Haskell * An entirely new programming language * Something in between * Other (please specify) 03:44:47 (You could discuss in the wiki as subitems of the corresponding items, or in IRC) 03:50:25 Not a clue. Needs more information. 03:52:27 What more information? Please write the request for mandatory more information 03:53:01 -!- micahjohnston has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:54:22 -!- nisstyre_ has joined. 03:55:13 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Disconnected by services). 03:55:45 -!- nisstyre_ has changed nick to Nisstyre. 04:01:31 -!- tyoc213 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:02:42 -!- micahjohnston has joined. 04:10:09 * oerjan looks at http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2011-August/094464.html and wonders why the _hell_ there is still software in 2011 which is susceptible to the mailbox "From " bug 04:10:43 hm i guess that list page may simply be that old... 04:10:59 mailbox "From " bug? 04:11:45 Sgeo: that message was cut off. evidence from other times this has happened is that it's because the next line starts with "From " which in certain mailbox formats signifies a new message 04:16:41 Probably it would be better to do something such as using the ASCII "file separator" control character? 04:16:55 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 04:17:08 oh i'm sure there are lots of more modern mail formats 04:18:20 -!- kwertii has joined. 04:18:32 Just sign everything and differentiate emails by the ends of the signature blocks~ 04:19:22 um the problem isn't that the problem is hard to solve, it's that it's still unsolved in whatever generates that webpage 04:20:10 That won't work. 04:20:20 Hence the (~) 04:20:26 For SMTP messages, just a line with . by itself will work. 04:20:34 NihilistDandy: UNKNOWN MODIFIER 04:20:39 But it might not necessarily be SMTP 04:21:25 ...which presumably means they'll have the same problem if someone makes a message with such a line in it 04:21:25 let ~ = sarcasm in everyFuckingThingISay 04:22:03 NihilistDandy: INSUFFICIENTLY DISTINGUISHABLE FROM SCREEN DUST 04:22:49 oerjan: △ 04:25:01 insufficiently distinguishable from blank space in my putty font 04:25:30 Your putty font sucks 04:25:36 Use DejaVu Sans Mono 04:26:01 istr i tried that and it was worse 04:26:35 Impossible 04:26:37 Also 04:26:38 △ 04:26:38 WHITE UP-POINTING TRIANGLE 04:26:39 Unicode: U+25B3, UTF-8: E2 96 B3 04:28:13 ok it does show in dejavu 04:28:21 △ 04:28:21 Told you 04:28:33 the problem is that the font _looks_ so horrendous i cannot bear it 04:28:39 What? 04:28:43 It's better than Inconsolata 04:28:50 ▲ 04:29:41 What's so bad about it? 04:29:46 but not better than courier new 04:29:57 i told you, it looks horrendous 04:30:13 Courier New is for people who type screenplays at Starbucks 04:30:38 💩 04:30:38 PILE OF POO 04:30:38 Unicode: U+1F4A9 (U+D83D U+DCA9), UTF-8: F0 9F 92 A9 04:30:49 Emoji 04:31:26 why is this a thing 04:31:39 now why putty shows unknown characters as blank space, the least useful representation imaginable, i don't know 04:31:40 I have no idea 04:32:48 and that seems to be the case for dejavu as well, it shows nothing for your pile 04:33:02 oerjan: I think they only place they even exist is on OS X 04:33:05 And only in Lion 04:33:22 And probabaly Japan 04:33:27 Everywhere 04:33:31 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoji 04:34:26 oerjan: I get /two/ unknown character squares for NihilistDandy's pile of poo 04:34:43 so I think Konversation (and thus Qt) is misreading the encoding for the astral plane character 04:35:51 My computer does not show unknown characters as blank space on PuTTY. Probably it is due to the font 04:36:23 Why on earth is everyone using putty? o.O 04:37:17 how else would i connect from windows to my ancient linux shell account 04:37:45 Installing a new OS?~ 04:37:48 PuTTY is one of the most competent terminal/telnet/ssh systems on Windows 04:37:54 (when i got it, it was not linux, but a VAX) 04:38:06 And that is true, about puTTY 04:38:07 it works just fine on Linux too; there's just less of a reason to use it 04:38:09 *P 04:40:21 In my case I am connecting to an IRC client running on my own computer by using PuTTY. 04:41:38 -!- variable has joined. 04:51:24 -!- kwertii has quit (Quit: bye). 04:51:48 -!- kwertii has joined. 05:03:11 -!- MDude has changed nick to MSleep. 05:13:17 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:20:31 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:23:04 -!- invariable has joined. 05:25:09 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 05:25:19 -!- invariable has changed nick to variable. 05:27:41 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 05:28:01 HUSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE http://www.formspring.me/mspadventures/q/224752048803967489 05:40:07 -!- evincar has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:59:55 -!- kwertii has quit (Quit: bye). 06:27:52 -!- nooga has joined. 06:35:12 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 06:39:27 -!- jcp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:40:07 -!- jcp|1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:46:51 -!- jcp has joined. 06:51:56 -!- javawizard has joined. 07:39:15 The following is an example of a program in a hypothetical BASIC dialect with "COMEFROM" instead of "GOTO". An actual example in INTERCAL would be too difficult to read. 07:39:49 Let's write an example then~ 07:41:03 hmm, I always thought the sarcasm mark was meant to come after a full stop 07:41:06 rather than replace it 07:41:12 so it became .~ in full 07:41:27 * ais523 wonders if SARCASM MARK will ever be added to Unicode 07:43:11 heh, double-comefrom creates a new process in Perl as well as INTERCAL 07:44:05 also, it finds comefroms by regexing the code, which is beautiful 07:58:34 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:58:40 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:14:14 -!- nooga has joined. 08:41:27 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 08:55:04 -!- variable has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 09:06:24 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 09:30:10 #8 0x00000000 in ?? () 09:30:10 (gdb) up 09:30:10 #9 0xf71ae233 in __libc_start_main () from /usr/lib32/libc.so.6 09:30:12 how the fup 09:30:15 fuck* 09:30:31 how can 0x00000000 be #8? 09:31:08 full weird backtrace: http://sprunge.us/GNHA 09:31:39 It's reconstructed from the stack; if you get it mangled, it can be anything. 09:31:57 right 09:32:16 so useless for figuring out this crash 09:32:28 I don't even have the source to the thing, it from the humble indie bundle 09:32:55 Which one of them? 09:34:24 The tail end of the stack trace can be pretty weird anyways. If I gdb /bin/echo and break at _start, it's 09:34:25 #0 0x00007ffff7ddcaf0 in _start () from /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 09:34:25 #1 0x0000000000000001 in ?? () 09:34:25 #2 0x00007fffffffe99f in ?? () 09:34:25 #3 0x0000000000000000 in ?? () 09:34:44 The 0x00..01 is a bit weird place too. 09:35:02 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 09:44:22 -!- Taneb has joined. 09:44:24 Hello! 09:52:37 -!- jcp|other has joined. 09:53:52 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:54:17 -!- javawizard has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:55:57 -!- jcp has joined. 10:07:42 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:21:26 -!- FireFly has joined. 10:35:44 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:36:33 Can anyone tell me how to convert a string such as "1.2" to a float in Python? 10:42:12 Or JavaScript. JavaScript is good too 10:46:14 float("1.2") in Python. 10:47:01 parseFloat("1.2") in JavaScript. 10:51:40 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:52:10 Thanks 11:40:20 -!- Patashu has joined. 11:45:17 I think I may have just implemented Numberwang. 11:48:06 -!- jcp|other has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 11:48:23 -!- jcp|other has joined. 11:49:24 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:49:42 -!- elliott has joined. 11:51:58 -!- jcp has joined. 11:54:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:54:34 -!- jcp|other has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 11:55:21 19:59:23: I also have a Japanese keyboard so my backspace is smaller 11:55:22 Topre? 11:55:39 -!- jcp|other has joined. 11:55:41 Filco 11:55:43 Well, I broke Python's maximum recursion depth 11:56:09 Deewiant: So I discovered lines later :-P 11:56:12 Taneb: That's trivial to do 11:56:19 Just increase it until Python segfaults 11:56:33 It's not the exact one I linked, but the key layout is the same 11:56:35 I meant I reached it. 11:56:39 How do I increase it? 11:56:42 Or even remove it? 11:56:43 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:57:13 Taneb: sys.setrecursionlimit 11:57:22 you really can segfault python by putting it too high, though 11:57:25 try a manual stack 11:58:00 -!- derrik has joined. 11:58:05 Numberwang implementation 11:58:15 Anything but recursion is very tricky 11:58:32 -!- derrik has quit (Client Quit). 11:59:05 -!- derrik has joined. 11:59:11 21:27:22: zzo38: oh. yes it is possible to download lambdabot, and i think even to use it from inside ghci. but i've not tried it myself, and istr people complaining that it is awkward sometime in the past 11:59:23 well, GOA has been started to be maintained again recently 11:59:26 so you may be in luck 11:59:29 it's on hackage 12:00:27 23:58:09: I use the equal sign for the Haskell == instead since that is the one testing equality, so == print out using the equal sign. 12:00:35 I suggest you use \equiv for (==) instead 12:00:37 and = for = 12:01:38 Man, I had a dream last night when I ate my t, r and h keys. 12:01:54 And then I was typing and I was like "oh no!" 12:01:58 -!- jcp has joined. 12:02:07 01:47:11: zzo38: you should replace $ by parens, I think <-- not all uses of $ can be replaced by parens. in particular ($ x) sections may not have any obvious replacement. 12:02:10 But then I realised that eating my keys was a stupid thing to do so it must have been a dream. 12:02:17 not only that but _dollar sign is not always equivalent to parens_ 12:02:24 under presence of extensions 12:02:25 (rank-n types) 12:04:19 Phantom_Hoover: Don't you mean "o no!"? 12:04:24 Dammit. Python won't let me set the recursion limit to "Bloody high" 12:04:47 fizzie, no, I don't type when I think, silly. 12:04:55 Taneb, consider using a good language. 12:05:02 Phantom_Hoover: But how can you THINK an 'h' without the key? 12:05:13 Sorry, I mean, TINK. 12:05:26 fizzie, I still had the key, it was just in my stomach. 12:05:35 Taneb: use a manual stack 12:05:58 04:10:09: * oerjan looks at http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2011-August/094464.html and wonders why the _hell_ there is still software in 2011 which is susceptible to the mailbox "From " bug 12:05:58 I see no obvious problem with the page? 12:06:25 Mailbox "From" bug? 12:06:38 Can a manual stack work with non-tail end recursion 12:06:40 Phantom_Hoover: google mbox 12:07:03 oh, is the problem that the mail is truncated? 12:07:10 oh, oerjan says so two lines later 12:07:14 three actually 12:07:21 04:11:45: Sgeo: that message was cut off. evidence from other times this has happened is that it's because the next line starts with "From " which in certain mailbox formats signifies a new message 12:07:33 well, it is usually the mail sender's obligation to include the > or space or . before "From" 12:07:40 I guess many clients don't now 12:07:49 but anything naive that archives it in mbox... 12:07:56 I imagine mailman is naive in this sense :P 12:08:43 04:33:02: oerjan: I think they only place they even exist is on OS X 12:08:43 04:33:05: And only in Lion 12:08:43 04:33:22: And probabaly Japan 12:08:43 04:33:27: Everywhere 12:08:43 04:33:31: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoji 12:08:51 NihilistDandy: um no, emoji are an official part of Unicode. 12:08:57 and supported by many devices 12:09:19 I think that OS X is the only desktop-computer-or-laptop operating system that ships with fonts containing emoji characters, though 12:09:29 04:34:43: so I think Konversation (and thus Qt) is misreading the encoding for the astral plane character 12:09:29 KDE only supports BMP 12:09:31 because KDE sucks 12:09:37 You mean someone let Lymee at the Unicode spec? 12:09:47 Phantom_Hoover: what 12:09:57 oh, yeah, gmail also has emoji 12:15:59 Exist as in "actually sahow up in the system's Unicode tables" 12:16:03 *show 12:16:49 Define system's Unicode tables 12:17:01 Everything supporting a recent enough Unicode will know the names of the emoji characters 12:17:23 ... 12:17:37 I have to go get a brain scan in a half hour 12:17:48 I don't have time for this :P 12:18:34 I'm not being obstinate, I have no clue how you think Apple are giving emoji special support beyond adding a category for them in the character map, and shipping an appropriate font 12:21:01 "shipping an appropriate font" probabaly encapsulates the idea best 12:21:09 *probably 12:21:30 In that it is the only sensible way of thinking about it 12:22:31 Now, I'm off 12:23:48 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 12:25:44 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:26:12 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 12:42:33 I think this program is outputting an endless stream of "iiiiiit's NUMBERWANG!" 12:42:55 AND it just crashe 12:42:55 d 12:44:18 I think as Numberwang stands it's a push-down automaton. 12:44:22 Maybe not even that. 12:44:29 Gonna change the spec 12:58:21 -!- Sgeo has joined. 13:32:40 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:56:01 -!- derrik has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:58:08 -!- derrik has joined. 14:07:19 -!- derrik has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 14:09:02 -!- derrik has joined. 14:16:48 -!- derrik has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:17:28 -!- lament has joined. 14:18:58 -!- derrik has joined. 14:19:23 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 14:32:02 -!- derrik has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]). 14:42:38 http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Funciton this is a beautiful language 14:43:19 yes; if only the author didn't want to take over our wiki :) 14:43:24 he does? 14:43:54 let him, if he makes beautiful languages like Funciton :D 14:44:08 he tried to become an admin while repeatedly demonstrating lack of understanding of MediaWiki (he wanted to make us a new skin, but didn't seem to actually know how that was done), and then when Graue didn't reply to his email told us we should take control of the domain and move the wiki to something under his control 14:44:16 because of Graue's horrible injustness 14:44:23 oh 14:44:25 cue silence until he went away 14:44:37 :( 14:45:01 the diagrams look broken 14:45:14 are you on a unicode browser? 14:45:17 they work fine on chrome 14:45:23 whats a unicode browser 14:45:29 elliott: not Lynx 14:45:32 *a browser in which unicode is properly displayed 14:45:48 the diagrams look broken though 14:46:52 or are they supposed to look broken? 14:47:55 they're meant to look like boxes and lines 14:48:02 if you don't see boxes and lines then your browser sucks & dead 14:48:04 (or font) 14:48:31 they do look like lines and boxes, but in a non-fixed-width font 14:49:00 aah 14:49:04 font sucks & dead 14:49:22 i choose to blaim the programming language 14:49:27 *blame 14:49:45 -!- FireFly has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:50:33 -!- FireFly has joined. 14:54:11 -!- copumpkin has joined. 15:10:16 -!- variable has joined. 15:19:17 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 15:39:59 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:40:45 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:41:17 -!- yorick has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:47:21 -!- Sgeo has joined. 15:58:09 -!- yorick has joined. 16:10:37 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:11:55 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:12:08 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 16:13:15 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 16:13:17 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Changing host). 16:13:17 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 16:20:37 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:28:08 -!- copumpkin has joined. 16:34:29 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:47:28 -!- derrik has joined. 16:52:12 -!- derrik has quit (Client Quit). 16:54:34 -!- derrik has joined. 16:57:07 I suggest we s/liquidity/fluidity in the topic. 16:57:13 *tries that again 16:57:16 I suggest we s/liquidity/fluidity/ in the topic. 16:57:19 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:58:56 Gregor: You do it :P 16:59:11 -!- Gregor has set topic: Don't enjoy unlocking the matrix of fluidity, please. | wget -s 42 redpill | man mouth | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 17:06:55 -!- derrik has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]). 17:24:15 -!- atome has joined. 17:24:27 -!- atome has quit (Client Quit). 17:27:15 -!- derrik has joined. 17:32:25 -!- derrik has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 17:39:12 I think LLVM also includes an example program for compiling Brainfuck codes into LLVM codes 17:46:47 Yeah, but it's not exactly any good. 17:47:09 It doesn't give LLVM enough information to do anything *useful*. 17:48:12 But possibly a better one can be written, that checks some stuff at first before sending to LLVM, to allow more information to be sent 17:50:51 I'd imagine the biggest win would be eliminating as many pointer movements as possible. 17:51:43 Which would allow LLVM to do meaningful optimisation. 17:54:09 -!- derrik has joined. 17:59:08 Dow Jones is down another 450 so far... 17:59:43 Aaaah, the sound of the world going up in flames. 18:00:34 Can there be a LLVM transform pass that is used for eliminating pointer movements? 18:01:06 Probably, but it's only really useful *for Brainfuck*. Nothing else really does that. 18:01:39 It's not so much that it's impossible as it is a heavily language-specific optimisation. 18:01:41 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:04:21 Aaaah, the sound of the world going up in flames. 18:04:23 Wait, what? 18:04:34 There's a stock market crash? 18:04:39 Or are you just being sensationalist. 18:05:15 Phantom_Hoover: Ongoing one. 18:05:58 Phantom_Hoover: The past week or so the markets have been going down 3 to 5% each day. 18:06:44 /r/worldnews says nothing, and you and Reddit share a lot of common ground. 18:08:12 ATM the DJI is at 11,000, lowest it's been for a couple years now. 18:09:00 -!- monqy has joined. 18:09:12 Well, you know... "/r/Worldnews is for major news from around the world except US-related news (especially US politics)" 18:09:45 news.google.com top story "US Stocks Tumble as Rating Downgrade Sparks Concern" + see all 5060 sources. 18:11:05 Oh, huh. 18:11:08 Fair dos. 18:27:22 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:56:01 -!- MSleep has changed nick to MDude. 19:04:34 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:16:14 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:22:19 monqy: Are you... up for that. 19:22:24 That being the DF fort. 19:22:28 am I up for oh 19:22:37 I forgot to do the introduction thing 19:22:38 oops 19:22:39 Like, it is going to be my year pretty much soon. 19:23:55 getting dwarf fortresse 19:24:24 monqy: I'm... not having an extreme feeling of confidence about handing the fort over to you. 19:24:29 And that's saying something because I'm terrible. 19:24:36 8) 19:24:51 I do not have any confidence at all about handling the fort 19:25:02 That makes it more Fun, elliott 19:25:07 monqy: Do you even want the fort. 19:25:16 im not sure 19:25:17 Taneb: Succession fortresses... generally try and avoid Fun. 19:25:28 i might want to find out if i like dwarf fortresse first 19:25:30 elliott, no they don't. 19:25:45 Phantom_Hoover: They avoid complete and utter Fun on only the fourth person. 19:25:47 They just make sure it won't be boring when it happens. 19:26:13 monqy: You'll probably want to set a lot of time aside to do it, since you have to complete a year in, like, no more than a week before we'll all get impatient. :p 19:26:45 ok I'll skip my turn for now at least 19:27:11 I guess we should just loop back to Taneb? 19:27:31 what happened to Lymee 19:28:02 monqy: About ten big holes in our Minecraft base happened to Lymee. 19:28:45 Oh Jeremy Paxman 19:36:22 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:38:17 -!- augur has joined. 19:40:19 04:38:43 not only that but _dollar sign is not always equivalent to parens_ 19:40:22 04:38:50