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00:26:17 <Gregor> OK esonauts, make some terrible jokes regarding the fallacy/phallus/fellatio punfecta.
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00:28:43 <oerjan> what do you think we are, cunning linguists?
00:30:17 <oerjan> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/jya5h/gmailcom_being_mitmd_by_iran_using_this/
00:31:51 <oerjan> (links to http://pastebin.com/ff7Yg663)
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00:43:02 <zzo38> I compiled a Haskell program that has foreign export, it made up a C program file with StgClosure and Capability and rts_checkSchedStatus and some other stuff that I don't know.
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00:48:30 <zzo38> Once I was trying to fill a comment that had a CAPTCHA. If I typed in "Anonymous" as the name, it always said the CAPTCHA was wrong. I tried it ten times it didn't work so I changed the name to "A. Nonymous" and then it worked OK
00:48:54 <zzo38> (It didn't say anything about the name being wrong; it said the CAPTCHA was wrong.)
00:49:29 <zzo38> What kind of stuff is that?
00:50:45 <zzo38> Why does it do that?
00:51:38 <oerjan> maybe someone doesn't want anonymous posts, and made a mistake in the code so it doesn't give a different error message
01:53:54 <Gregor> HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY
01:54:00 <Gregor> I didn't even notice the reference in the topic.
01:54:21 <Gregor> IT IS THE NINETIES, AND THERE IS TIME FOR FINNKLAX
01:58:07 <Gregor> I can't decide whether cranking up the reverb to 2 bounces is actually improving the audio, or I'm just jacking off to reverb.
02:03:11 <oerjan> Gregor: if you cannot tell the difference, you're in risk of committing a phallus fallacy.
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03:56:23 <Sgeo> Has anyone read this before? http://www.springerlink.com/content/w7824830mp13171x/
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03:56:47 <Sgeo> !@#$ costing money
04:04:16 <Sgeo> "The Kerr metric, which describes empty spacetime around a rotating black hole, possesses these features: a computer can orbit the black hole indefinitely, while an observer falling into the black hole experiences an M-H event as they cross the inner event horizon. (This, however, neglects the effects of Black Hole Evaporation.)"
04:04:21 <Sgeo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malament-Hogarth_spacetime
04:04:38 <Sgeo> Ooh, so if I'm willing to fall into a black hole, I can solve the halting problem for turing machines
04:07:02 <evincar> Can't a human determine whether a program can halt?
04:07:36 <evincar> If so, is there an algorithm for that?
04:07:57 <Sgeo> What does "whether it can" even mean?
04:07:58 <evincar> Because if we can do it, I presume some equivalent finite machine can.
04:08:23 <evincar> I dunno, barring all else, while(true){} can't halt.
04:08:34 <evincar> But while(random()!=k){} can.
04:08:55 <Sgeo> I don't think impure stuff is part of traditional turing machines
04:10:54 <coppro> evincar: The only way to be sure is to run the machine over every possible input
04:12:36 <evincar> coppro: Not really. A human's insight can often discern patterns that lead to discovery of the particular inputs for which the program does and does not halt.
04:12:59 <evincar> Perhaps not always, but of course we're not infinitely intelligent either.
04:13:06 <evincar> We're just very good at pattern recognition.
04:15:14 <coppro> evincar: Yes, but pattern recognition is huristic
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04:22:18 <oerjan> evincar: i think the collatz functions i recently learned about and put on the wiki are a counterexample where it's undecidable whether _any_ inputs don't halt. (the collatz problem itself is unsolved, but the paper i put as a link is iirc about showing that there are better examples)
04:23:04 <oerjan> (where better = some of them are definitely undecidable)
04:23:43 <evincar> That's true. I guess humans can't always get it.
04:23:47 <oerjan> hm that's the reverse problem though. but i'd be surprised if what you said was solvable.
04:23:55 <evincar> But I didn't say "does halt".
04:24:08 <evincar> And obviously Collatz can halt for some inputs.
04:25:05 <evincar> So is there a case where the reverse is true, where every input we've tried hasn't halted but we're not sure there's no input that does?
04:25:24 <oerjan> mind you there's only a difference if there are inputs
04:27:10 <oerjan> hm there's that unambiguous parsing problem, which is undecidable, i think you can make that into an example.
04:27:58 <oerjan> given a context-free grammar, search for a string which has two different parsings.
04:28:07 <oerjan> halt once you find one.
04:28:34 <oerjan> hm wait what are the inputs
04:29:39 <evincar> The input is presumably the grammar.
04:30:24 <oerjan> that doesn't work since there are clearly some grammars that make this halt
04:30:32 <evincar> So there's no algorithm for finding ambiguities in grammars?
04:30:55 <oerjan> not if you want it to halt if there aren't any
04:31:30 <evincar> I always found it odd that analytical problems of that sort can be unhalting.
04:31:48 <evincar> It's sort of unintuitive that a finite input can represent infinite computation.
04:32:23 <evincar> But at the same time obvious, if you've ever programmed anything.
04:32:55 <evincar> What's even more odd is the class of programs that are designed not to halt.
04:33:08 <evincar> Telephony systems, aircraft controllers, that sort of thing.
04:33:59 <coppro> evincar: Any turing machine that we have never proven halts or does not halt on any input satisfies your criterion
04:35:01 <evincar> But of course, we're finite.
04:35:09 <evincar> Even if we're beautifully complex.
04:35:35 <evincar> I guess the notion of "does not halt" for a human is "gives up or dies after a while".
04:36:58 <oerjan> evincar: iirc the proof for those ambiguous grammars is by constructing from a turing machine a grammar where a string with two parsings describes the history of the computation of the tm, and only exists if it halts.
04:38:13 <evincar> So lately I've been thinking about iterators.
04:38:18 <evincar> Pulling a Stepanov pretty much.
04:38:49 <evincar> I feel like they're a good model for pretty much any lazy computation.
04:39:08 <evincar> But of course C++ is awful and it's difficult to test the ideas I've been having.
04:39:21 <Sgeo> Then why use C++?
04:39:22 <oerjan> evincar: um, what about cyclic lazy structures
04:39:36 <lambdabot> [1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,...
04:39:40 <evincar> oerjan: You have a cyclic iterator?
04:40:00 <evincar> They're not really "traditional", but meh.
04:40:21 <oerjan> i'm thinking about the data sharing, here
04:41:07 <oerjan> that l in haskell evaluates to just a cyclic linked list with two elements
04:42:32 <oerjan> oh a better thing that would be hard with iterators is tying-the-knot constructions
04:42:46 <oerjan> technically l there is one, but very simple
04:43:31 <evincar> Yeah, a cyclic list isn't hard. You can make a cyclic_iterator just like you did there, with a cons_iterator and a reference.
04:44:26 <oerjan> ah, the mccarthy 91 function
04:44:31 <evincar> In fact, I think it'd be simpler if you just had a cyclic_iterator use a buffer_iterator internally (which ordinarily would adapt a forward iterator into a bidirectional one).
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04:46:02 <oerjan> > let m = [m !! (m !! (n + 11)) | n <- [0..100]] ++ [91 ..] in m
04:46:03 <lambdabot> [91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91,91...
04:47:46 <evincar> What am I looking at here?
04:48:15 <oerjan> a lazy list giving the values for the McCarthy 91 function
04:49:12 <oerjan> and the calculation jumps back and forth, so an iterator is ... not so useful.
04:49:27 <copumpkin> it's a pain to implement in most proof languages
04:49:39 <copumpkin> because it doesn't obviously terminate
04:50:37 <evincar> Interesting. I'll have to think about it.
04:51:25 <oerjan> evincar: i think maybe iterators are good for the kind of lazy list computations that "fuse" in the sense of ghc's optimizations
04:53:25 <oerjan> "Donald Knuth generalized the 91 function to include additional parameters. John Cowles developed a formal proof that Knuth's generalized function was total, using the ACL2 theorem prover."
04:53:51 <evincar> ...so like, general backtracking computation over a sequence?
04:56:42 <kmc> > let m = [m !! (m !! (n + 11)) | n <- [0..100]] ++ [91 ..] in dropWhile ((==91).snd) . zip [0..] $ m
04:56:43 <lambdabot> [(102,92),(103,93),(104,94),(105,95),(106,96),(107,97),(108,98),(109,99),(1...
04:57:14 <kmc> would be a lot more efficient with a memo trie
04:59:03 <evincar> Okay, so there has to be some means of general recursion, and I'm not sure how to get that without special-casing it.
04:59:18 <evincar> Sure, you could consider a "recurse_tag" some kind of axiom.
04:59:27 <evincar> But it would seem cleaner to have a "Y combinator" of iterators.
04:59:36 <evincar> Though I'm not sure what that would be.
04:59:49 <oerjan> evincar: hm that reminds me of the difference between general and primitive recursion
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05:02:17 <evincar> Actually, I'm looking at this wrong.
05:02:25 <evincar> Higher-order iterators are easy.
05:02:39 <evincar> They already have access to the iterators they're receiving.
05:02:49 <evincar> Dereferencing them is what forces values.
05:03:50 <evincar> So you could write a Y iterator that just returns an iterator constructed from the type given as its input.
05:04:30 <evincar> It'd be a literal translation of \f.(\x.f(x x))(\x.f(x x)).
05:05:15 <zzo38> I play Pokemon card. I managed to win even though they had only one side card remaining I had five, I just needed to survive for eight turns. But it helped because I had cards with a lot of hit points, as well as SWITCH and GUST OF WIND, guessing what card opponent has in their hand (they don't know how to bluff very well), and the prophecy defense. I picked up one card without a lot of hit points but did not play it in case opponent has GUST O
05:06:32 <zzo38> The last card in their deck was a water energy (which could be used for retreat), but I calculated everything ahead of time to ensure that if they were able to do that, they still would not be able to do enough damage to knock out my active pokemon.
05:07:02 <evincar> I never played the game...I was always more into Magic myself.
05:07:20 <evincar> Though I only collected Pokémon cards, and never built a Magic deck.
05:07:42 <zzo38> I play Magic: the Gathering cards too. But I also like to play Pokemon card. I do not own any cards; I always borrow cards.
05:08:41 <zzo38> I do have a few Magic: the Gathering cards, which are the ones I drafted. But I am never going to use them because if I go to a tournament I get new cards every time.
05:14:49 <zzo38> In the game of Pokemon card (I use old style rules), there is a lot of tactical options and strategy; like chess the game is 90% tactics but there is long term strategy. You also have to know defense; I have the book "Art of Defense in Chess" and really in other game there are similar defensive themes.
05:15:02 <evincar> Ooh, just had a thought about the iterator thing.
05:15:14 <evincar> You can model general loops as cyclic iterators and compositions of them.
05:15:34 <evincar> So you could have a game-loop-iterator(event-processing-iterator, rendering-iterator).
05:16:30 <evincar> And the game-loop-iterator models an abstract spiral data structure that ends when the game events end.
05:16:40 <zzo38> I have made up a new format of Pokemon card: All the cards in the deck other than basic energy cards are decided at random. And then, you can trade up to five of those cards for an equal number of new random cards. You can put basic energy cards yourself. In addition, you can play any evolution card as long as it is either the correct one (by name), *or* the following conditions all apply:
05:17:45 <zzo38> * It has the same energy type as the card it is being played on. * It is the correct stage (such as stage 1 on basic, or stage 2 on stage 1). * All the lower stage cards in the stack you are playing it on have a proper evolution card of the stage you are playing.
05:18:56 <zzo38> (For example, it is permitted to play WARTORTLE on SEEL but you could not play BLASTOISE on top of that because SEEL does not go up to stage 2.)
05:20:20 <evincar> zzo38: So you just have to remember which cards have evolutions? Or is it on the cards themselves? (I forget.)
05:20:48 <zzo38> (Some cards (such as EEVEE) have evolution cards of different energy types; such evolutions can still be played. However, you could not play any fire type evolution card on EEVEE. You could however, play DRAGONAIR but not continue it to DRAGONITE.)
05:20:56 <evincar> I remember SEEL → DEWGONG but the newer generation eludes me.
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05:21:09 <evincar> I haven't really paid attention to Pokémon since 2nd generation.
05:21:40 <zzo38> evincar: The evolution cards do say what card you play it on top of. Other than that it does not say; but I can remember. I am only playing the first generation cards anyways, with the exception of LUGIA which has no evolution cards anyways.
05:23:01 <zzo38> The POKEMON BREEDER card does require you to know which stage 2 card matches which basic pokemon card even though the card does not say. However, if you limit yourself to first generation pokemon cards, you can tell which stage 2 card matches by the pokemon number (for example, the stage 2 card #6 (CHARIZARD) matches basic pokemon card #4 (CHARMANDER)).
05:24:04 <evincar> That's true, I hadn't thought of that.
05:25:42 <zzo38> Yes; if and only if you are playing first generation only, the function of the POKEMON BREEDER card does not use any information that is not printed on the relevant cards themselves.
05:25:51 <evincar> So I may have come up with a general way of nicely expressing lazy computation in an eager, imperative language.
05:26:13 <evincar> Which is nice because it also implies a nice way of compiling lazy languages into eager ones.
05:26:38 <evincar> I'm going to have to explore this...
05:27:00 <evincar> ...and probably make some intermediate language that compiles to C++ so I don't drive myself insane.
05:27:22 <evincar> C++ has ubiquity on its side, at least, as a target language.
05:27:23 <zzo38> Can you use LLVM instead?
05:28:06 <evincar> But I think it'd be easier to target a slightly higher-level language where iterators make sense.
05:28:15 <evincar> If only as a proof of concept.
05:28:53 <kmc> wait, you're using C++ so you *don't* drive yourself insane?
05:30:12 <zzo38> I would like to program LLVM with the macros of BLISS and the literate programming of WEB.
05:31:01 <zzo38> That would be, to me, almost an ideal programming language for the level and other kind of thing which is C is being used.
05:31:01 <evincar> kmc: No, I'd be writing an intermediate language so I don't drive myself insane using C++ directly.
05:31:29 <evincar> At the very least, some kind of preprocessor.
05:31:32 <zzo38> LLVM is far better designed than C, in my opinion.
05:31:35 <monqy> targeting c++ sounds hilarious
05:32:06 <evincar> zzo38: I would like to see a high-level assembly based on LLVM, similar in some respects to C.
05:32:17 <evincar> I remember FASM has nice macros...perhaps something like that.
05:32:58 <evincar> monqy: I basically just need a language that's good for generic programming.
05:33:26 <evincar> Is there anything else out there that's relatively low-level but also good at generic things?
05:33:39 <zzo38> Do you know the macro system of BLISS? Now combine the BLISS macros with the metamacros of Enhanced CWEB, and the ability to run code at compile time (Enhanced CWEB allows it in @{ ... @} blocks, while Template Haskell allows it in $( ... ) blocks).
05:33:41 <monqy> it'd be easier and better to do all the generic stuff yourself than target c++
05:33:44 <monqy> to do the generic stuff
05:34:07 <zzo38> What kind of high level assembly based on LLVM and similar to C? What kind of ideas do you have about it?
05:35:15 <evincar> zzo38: Something based on a system like this: http://flatassembler.net/docs.php?article=manual#2.3.3
05:35:37 <evincar> Where macros are introduced that build on one another to provide a high-level interface to the LLVM instructions.
05:36:56 <evincar> monqy: What do you mean, "do it myself"? Write an interpreter/compiler?
05:37:25 <monqy> aren't you doing that already?
05:37:30 <monqy> compiling your language to c++?
05:38:12 <evincar> I wasn't writing a language so much as just some macros or whatever to make writing loads of iterators less painful and error-prone.
05:38:54 <evincar> Also, if it targets C++, people might use it as a library.
05:38:59 <kmc> what percentage of popular programming languages started out as "just some macros"?
05:39:17 <zzo38> evincar: Actually in most cases I like the LLVM instructions directly; they are far better designed than C. But I would still like to have macros, similar to those in BLISS (Wikipedia has an article about BLISS; I also like the way that references to variables work in BLISS, and structures in BLISS; they are very versatile.)
05:39:20 <evincar> kmc: Do more popular languages count for more?
05:39:43 <zzo38> kmc: I think EMACS did.
05:42:05 <zzo38> Macros in BLISS have some similarities to macros in TeX and METAFONT (but not exactly).
05:47:13 <zzo38> Definitions of structure types in BLISS can take parameters and can contain any arbitrary program code.
05:47:51 <zzo38> And I would like to see an explicit union type in LLVM; it could possibly even be used for some optimizations.
05:47:52 <evincar> Hmm, that's another thing...what would be a good way of defining structures in my hypothetical iterator-language?
05:48:15 <evincar> Should all things be lists?
05:48:42 <evincar> Iterators naturally work on flat structures...
05:49:31 <monqy> haven't been attentioning
05:50:05 <monqy> don't force them to be flat because that's dumb
05:50:58 <evincar> No, but it'd make sense for any concrete data to be represented by lists, lists of lists, and probably a handful of numeric types.
05:52:02 <monqy> and what is "iterators naturally work on flat structures..." about?
05:52:34 <evincar> Iterators present flat views of structures.
05:52:40 <evincar> Even if they're hierarchical.
05:53:15 <monqy> what kind of lists are we talking about
05:54:02 <evincar> Not sure. Probably contiguous, as you could represent linked lists with cons iterators.
05:54:03 <monqy> are they lazy? are they potentially infinite or perhaps restricted to being cyclic? are they necessarily homogenous?
05:54:10 <monqy> by homogenous I mean type-wise
05:54:18 <evincar> No, any concrete data would be finite.
05:54:25 <evincar> You model laziness with iterators.
05:54:26 <monqy> what do you mean by contiguous
05:54:50 <evincar> So you'd get efficient strings.
05:55:02 <monqy> ugh whatever I don't feel like dealing with this right now
05:55:05 <evincar> I don't like having a primitive string type when it can be a list[char].
05:55:26 <evincar> I want someone to work this out with.
05:55:30 <monqy> ok then make it list[char]
06:00:22 <zzo38> In Haskell the String type is the same as [Char] and in C you often use char* type (although you sometimes explicitly declare an array in place)
06:02:00 <kmc> a line of inquiry which interests me (as a Haskell developer) is the extent to which things can be made to look like lazy linked lists but be implemented with contiguous memory
06:02:06 <evincar> zzo38: Is a Haskell list ever contiguous, even as an optimisation?
06:02:31 <kmc> this is already done on a somewhat ad-hoc basis, e.g. the Lazy ByteString type, which is basically a list of L2-cache-sized strict ByteStrings
06:02:43 <kmc> but it only gives you laziness at that coarse granularity
06:02:55 <kmc> and it's not a transparent optimization; it's a separate module written by the ByteString library authors
06:03:26 <kmc> evincar, in GHC, not really no
06:03:37 <kmc> sometimes the nodes would be accidentally contiguous, but this fact is not noticed or used
06:04:52 <kmc> there are many data types in Haskell for contiguous packed data
06:05:05 <kmc> but they have significantly different semantics from lists
06:05:34 <evincar> I like the idea of all non-lazy things (data) being contiguous and having value semantics, and all lazy things (iters) being non-contiguous and referential.
06:05:49 <evincar> I guess I'll go with it for now.
06:05:55 <kmc> i like the idea of immutable data, for which value and reference semantics become much closer :)
06:08:03 <evincar> I think my data are de facto immutable, considering.
06:08:21 <zzo38> evincar: I don't actually know how Haskell lists are contiguous or not in memory a list in Haskell is just a constructor : of type a -> [a] -> [a] as well as the constructor [] of type [a]
06:09:57 <zzo38> They are probably not particularly efficient as C and that stuff, although the way it is done in Haskell does allow a lot more things to be done with it than it would be if it were a simple contiguous finite list of items.
06:11:26 <zzo38> (But Haskell does have FFI so that you can write parts of the program in C as well, or even LLVM since it uses the same calling conventions as C and is compatible with C programs)
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06:31:42 <evincar> Hmm, I'm reading the C-- spec. So far I quite like it.
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07:02:56 <evincar> Seems a shame that C-- hasn't taken off like LLVM has.
07:03:21 <evincar> With the exception of the Cmm used by GHC.
07:04:27 <PatashuXantheres> I especially like the idea it has for handling garbage collection and exceptions
07:04:36 <PatashuXantheres> Tell us your code, then we'll tell you how to interact with the result
07:05:31 <evincar> Yep. And explicit support for tail calls and continuations and such is a major plus.
07:05:57 <evincar> I'm still unsure of how I want to compile this language to it.
07:06:17 <evincar> It seems to require parameterised types, which would be some work to implement the way I want.
07:20:09 <evincar> 'Any compile-time error message that begins with the phrase "This can't happen" indicates an internal error in the Quick C-- compiler.'
07:39:11 <evincar> The project seems largely abandoned. No CVS updates since 2009.
07:39:22 <evincar> And the latest release notes cite a lot of unfinished business.
07:39:55 <olsner> I believe it got taken over by ghc
07:40:21 <olsner> and the only up to date maintained version of C-- is the one built into ghc
07:40:24 <olsner> or something like that
07:40:27 <evincar> Yeah, Cmm is a subset of C-- used as a GHC IR.
07:41:25 <cheater> show me your garbage and i'll tell you who you are
07:42:22 <monqy> mostly compressed empty plastic water jugs
07:42:26 <evincar> cheater: Largely paper plates, napkins, teabags, and receipts.
07:42:32 <evincar> At least the one in my bedroom.
07:42:59 <monqy> and in the other, tissues, hair, dust
07:47:07 <evincar> monqy: What kinds of tissues? Muscular?
07:48:59 <monqy> facial tissues for containing and cleaning up mucous, blood, phlegm, spills, acting as napkins
07:49:14 <monqy> I should use them to dust too
07:52:32 <evincar> monqy uses people's facial tissues for scary things.
07:52:43 <evincar> Why would you cutt off people's faces, monqy? Why?
07:52:53 <evincar> Cutt is the way you spell cut.
08:13:14 <evincar> I had to convert some text from SJIS to UTF-8.
08:13:32 <evincar> I saved it in a temporary file before I ran iconv.
08:13:55 <evincar> Before I did, I checked to see that the file contained what I expected it to.
08:14:05 <evincar> Didn't think that one through.
08:33:34 <evincar> "The new C++0x has various good new features like (vectors) ,new template, classes.etc"
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08:45:28 <CakeProphet> Solon Mebsuthnazom, ARmorer cancels Drink: Went insane
09:02:06 <CakeProphet> everyone was pretty happy and then all of a sudden some socially withdrawn guy went crazy and killed a bunch of people..
09:02:20 <CakeProphet> and now everyone is killing everyone and dying from disease.
09:15:58 <CakeProphet> I think everyone is going to die because they're too stupid to move all the corpses out.
09:17:04 <monqy> set one of them to haul refuse and expand your refuse pile if it's full?
09:19:02 <CakeProphet> ....why do they always destroy the kitchen first when they freak out.
09:19:19 <cheater> because what's not to hate about a kitchen
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10:11:42 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, also the key to running a successful fort is making a boring one. That is however boring.
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10:19:48 <Vorpal> bbl, rebooting for kernel upgrade
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11:40:15 <cheater> Vorpal, pft, you have to reboot to upgrade your kernel? How... last-millennium
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12:46:06 <Vorpal> <cheater> Vorpal, pft, you have to reboot to upgrade your kernel? How... last-millennium <-- actually I used kexec
12:46:39 <Vorpal> cheater, anyway, I build my own vanilla kernels. Doubtful ksplice could do 3.0 -> 3.0.4 anyway
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12:49:33 <cheater> i can ask one of the people who made ksplice
12:50:11 <Vorpal> cheater, I don't really care
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12:50:38 <Vorpal> ksplice is nice for HA systems obviously. But for my desktop? Nah, not worth the effort.
12:51:59 <cheater> i hope one day linux will do ksplice like stuff by default
12:52:20 <Vorpal> cheater, maybe, but ksplice won't work well when data structures change
12:53:17 <Vorpal> cheater, so only really useful if you stay on some distro that does releases with long support. My desktop runs arch which is rolling release.
12:57:03 <cheater> data structures can often be migrated.
13:05:07 <Vorpal> cheater, not easy when the memory subsystem is hauled over.
13:05:25 <Vorpal> cheater, if it doesn't work between say 2.6.39 and 3.0 then it isn't worth it :P
13:20:43 <kmc> kexec is still a reboot, as far as disrupting all running programs
13:21:09 <kmc> it just speeds the process by skipping BIOS etc.
13:21:21 <kmc> i worked at ksplice until they got bought by oracle
13:22:22 <kmc> there's no absolute sharp line on how big of a change you can or can't do
13:22:53 <kmc> it's a matter of someone putting in the effort to read all those patches and make manual changes as appropriate
13:23:33 <kmc> most security fixes require no changes because they're stupid things like "lol, wrote < instead of <="
13:24:01 <kmc> we shipped many patches that modified data structures, and had very few issues with it, but they do require extra effort from humans
13:24:46 <kmc> ksplicing from 3.0 to 3.0.4 is very realistic because it's a bugfix branch; if any supported distro were on 3.0 then ksplice would almost certainly ship those patches at some point
13:24:54 <kmc> 2.6.39 to 3.0 would be a lot more work
13:25:15 <kmc> and now you know.
13:26:04 * Gregor imagines the NBC music and logo
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13:33:47 <itidus20> so i have finally watched all of the james may toy stories
13:41:46 <itidus20> phantom linked me to one of them about a lego house when i mentioned something about lego
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14:23:39 <Phantom_Hoover> These guys had a stall between Oxford and Strathclyde's.
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14:26:30 <marzin> I'm new to esolanguages ;)
14:27:40 <Gregor> Welcome to an obsessive waste of years of your life 8-D
14:28:53 <marzin> now I'm presice specifiation for my first esolang (interpretator will be in python ;))
14:29:46 <marzin> sorry english is not my native language :)
14:31:11 <marzin> this will be have a very very simple multithreading and inspired by brainf**k
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14:38:14 <Vorpal> <kmc> kexec is still a reboot, as far as disrupting all running programs <- indeed
14:39:12 <marzin> heh :) hello world in 20+ lines
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14:40:03 <marzin> I just ended writing hello world
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14:55:45 <Gregor> What's the nonshittiest widget toolkit?
14:59:12 <marzin> this depend of what language you want use and for what purpose
14:59:31 <marzin> for example you can't use a HAIKU-OS widgeds in Haskell
15:01:38 <Gregor> I haven't chosen a language yet, but let's assume it's whatever language you hate most (for all "you")
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15:03:04 <marzin> no widget tolkit exist for H9Q+
15:03:22 <Vorpal> Gregor, definitely hate H9Q+ most too
15:03:48 <marzin> should be a RAD IDE for HQ9+
15:06:52 <marzin> http://www.text-upload.com/read.php?id=130118&c=9097873
15:07:14 <marzin> TRYBIK v0.1 specifiaction :) maybe I write implementation in python
15:08:11 <Gregor> Naturally, your HQ9+ IDE should be in HQ9+
15:08:53 <marzin> yeah. But this will be non-standard extension
15:09:11 <marzin> I command run a window with HQ9+ IDE :)
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15:13:41 <marzin> btw: I wonder if trybik is turing complete ;)
15:16:27 <Vorpal> marzin, "One disc when loaded into memory of trybik VM has a exactly 256 (0-255) cells." <-- can you have an unlimited number of discs in a program?
15:17:26 <Vorpal> if there is only a finite amount of memory that you can access it won't be turing complete
15:17:37 <marzin> but one must load next :)
15:17:46 <Vorpal> marzin, from inside the program?
15:18:05 <marzin> it for it special cell
15:18:28 <Vorpal> marzin, wait is a disc for the data of the program or for the code?
15:18:52 <marzin> both thing are equal in it :)
15:19:53 <marzin> I thinking about implementation of turing m. in this way:
15:20:03 <marzin> one disc work as "scanner"
15:20:27 <Vorpal> implement a TC language in it, if that is possible then it is also tc
15:20:43 <marzin> and next discs as memory
15:21:06 <marzin> this will be a like chain :)
15:21:43 <marzin> Vorpal: when I'm write implementation of it I will think about some tc language interpreter in it :)
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15:40:21 <Phantom_Hoover> HQ9+ is acceptable because it was an original idea at the time.
15:40:28 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, dude read the context
15:41:13 <Phantom_Hoover> It is still an open question whether you even understand concept.
15:41:29 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, I don't hate HQ9+
15:42:05 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, but it was about forcing Gregor to write whatever it was in HQ9+
15:48:43 <fizzie> The Linux Skype client accepts s/// rewrites.
15:49:06 <fizzie> I just made one in the chat side, and it edited my original message, and put a little pen icon with a "this message has been edited" popup to it.
15:49:06 <Vorpal> fizzie, I hope it is on the sound!
15:49:33 <fizzie> Though I think it misparsed it, because I "s/,/./"'d, and the , turned to a \.
15:51:04 <fizzie> Well, "s/Foo/Bar/" worked.
15:51:14 <fizzie> I suspect an escaping issue.
15:51:32 <Vorpal> fizzie, strace it to see if it calls out to sed or perl or whatever
15:51:43 <fizzie> Not right now, I'm in the middle of a call.
15:52:09 <Vorpal> fizzie, google knew this btw
15:52:28 <Vorpal> (google for "skype sed expressions" (without quotes))
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15:53:08 <fizzie> Well, it'd be a bit surprising if I would have been the first to notice.
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15:53:52 <fizzie> Apparently there's a proper UI for the editing/removal functionality too.
15:54:11 <Vorpal> fizzie, anyway the sed thing works on non-linux too it seems
15:55:34 <itidus20> buddha apparently advised not to speculatively delianate I as finite nor infinite, eternal nor not-eternal
15:55:38 <Vorpal> fizzie, actually only on mac and linux it seems.
16:00:02 <itidus20> it makes more sense if seen with the keen reasoning of a mathematician
16:01:07 <itidus20> but this is not how i want to launch myself into the room
16:01:33 <itidus20> guys, it's 2am.. my brother is asleep.. he works tomorrow.. i can't make coffee.. kettle too loud
16:01:50 <itidus20> this is the difficult hours where i have to behave
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17:21:15 <zzo38> I say I want to make the Haskell with many extension of my ideas, but they don't like it because is insane and is worthless and so on...
17:21:50 <zzo38> (But what if you want to use the insane version of Haskell?)
17:23:52 <zzo38> Including more-notation, but also to rename the (#) kind to ## and the Nat kind to +
17:24:12 <zzo38> And adding a kind for classes, which you put the kind that the class corresponds to in square brackets.
17:25:59 <zzo38> Now classes can have classes, too.
17:30:18 <zzo38> And macros at the level of tokens but that can still contain executable Haskell codes, and can even create Template Haskell splices to be used later
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17:33:33 <zzo38> And a {-# LAW #-} pragma that tells the optimizer to assume certain properties of the code such as monad laws or commutativity or whatever. And be able to generate this pragma using Template Haskell so that in an instance declaration you can just make it include the proper laws from elsewhere
17:34:52 <zzo38> Is all of this insane? It doesn't matter much whether or not it is insane, I think, isn't it?
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18:27:40 <elliott> 03:56:23: <Sgeo> Has anyone read this before? http://www.springerlink.com/content/w7824830mp13171x/
18:27:40 <lambdabot> elliott: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
18:27:40 <elliott> 03:56:47: <Sgeo> !@#$ costing money
18:27:40 <elliott> 03:59:08: <coppro> <3 university
18:27:44 <elliott> coppro: Sgeo goes to uni- what am I saying.
18:27:55 <elliott> 04:07:02: <evincar> Can't a human determine whether a program can halt?
18:27:55 <elliott> 04:07:09: <evincar> Not whether it does.
18:27:55 <elliott> 04:07:12: <evincar> But whether it can.
18:27:55 <elliott> 04:07:36: <evincar> If so, is there an algorithm for that?
18:28:23 <elliott> 04:12:36: <evincar> coppro: Not really. A human's insight can often discern patterns that lead to discovery of the particular inputs for which the program does and does not halt.
18:28:23 <elliott> yes, it is not impossible to prove that a certain program halts, or a certain program does not halt.
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18:38:48 <elliott> how to make me a loyal customer, method 909: take my request to add features to work around my temporary lack of number keys seriously
18:41:21 <elliott> ais523: yep (duckduckgo, which I suspect you already know of)
18:41:32 <ais523> I've heard of it, but forgotten what it's for
18:42:13 <elliott> it's a search engine; IMO it has much more useful results than Google, and they don't do the personalisation Google does (they also say they don't log, which I'm inclined to believe, but of course it's hard to tell)
18:42:39 <elliott> they also do a redirect thing to stop the referer to sites including your search query (but you can turn that off), which is nice
18:43:22 <ais523> does the redirect thing also collate which results people clicked on? Google does that on pretty much all its sites
18:43:45 <elliott> ais523: no; like I said, their mine marketing campaign is pretty much that they don't do any logging
18:44:15 <ais523> I may look at them; ever since Wikia Search and Cuil went down, I've been left without a good search engine
18:44:18 <elliott> obviously it's hard to prove that, but lying about that doesn't seem to fit with anything else they do
18:44:32 <ais523> Wikia Search I particularly liked because it tended to find relevant results that Google didn't
18:44:45 <ais523> the reverse happened a lot more, ofc, but just having that happen at all is useful
18:45:29 <elliott> ais523: heh, I suspect you might turn off one of my favourite aspects of it (if it can, it shows short summaries + links of relevant wikipedia articles at the top before the results, which I click on far more than the actual results; but I suspect you try Wikipedia first)
18:45:50 <ais523> yep, if I think it's at all likely to be there, I try it first
18:45:58 <ais523> unless I know another site that's more appropriate
18:46:01 <elliott> its calculator is better too (Wolfram Alpha rather than Google's inconsistent one) :P
18:46:25 <ais523> e.g. [[Bulbasaur]] was (maybe still is) a featured article on Wikipedia, but I'd be more likely to look it up on Bulbapedia, Smogon or Veekun, depending on what information I needed
18:46:33 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: inconsistency: parenthesising an expression and building on top of its numeric result can just fail
18:46:39 <elliott> it doesn't like conversions being parenthesised, for instance
18:46:51 <elliott> and sometimes it just doesn't answer to a query for no reason, and if you change a few words or whatever it does
18:47:52 <ais523> why not use a calculator as a calculator?
18:48:24 <elliott> because computers obsolete calculators?
18:48:35 <elliott> admittedly, I don't care about it being done over the internet
18:48:45 <elliott> I would be happy if Chrome just called up Frink if it thought I entered a calculation
18:49:11 <ais523> elliott: well, calculator app on a computer, I consider to be a calculator
18:49:17 <elliott> but starting a calculator is more of a pain than opening a tab, and most application calculators don't let you use words instead of numbers :P
18:49:58 <elliott> ais523: if this were @, then I'd use a calculator program of some sort, because it'd be easy to call up; but making a search in Chrome is one of the fastest things I can do on my computer as it is, and one of the most general
18:50:04 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, care to give some context
18:50:09 <elliott> and starting applications is much slower
18:50:11 <ais523> elliott: I'd need to load Chrome first
18:50:17 <ais523> well, I'd need to /install/ Chrome before that
18:50:20 <elliott> ais523: yes, but I wouldn't :)
18:50:23 <ais523> (I have Chromium installed, but not Chrome)
18:50:39 <ais523> elliott: amusingly, for simple calculations I often use echo $((1+1)) or whatever
18:50:42 <ais523> because I /do/ normally have a terminal open
18:50:50 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, ah. Well: wall the border of the entire map. always plug any caverns you run into and use fortifications to map out their extent, and avoid them. Stuff like that
18:50:55 <elliott> ais523: Chrome's address bar is basically a command-line these days, really
18:51:00 <elliott> or rather, search engines are
18:51:06 <elliott> some of them aren't very good at it, though
18:51:11 <ais523> except when I'm on my usual Konversation/Akregator/Firefox/Evolution setup that I use when generically online and not doing anything else
18:51:16 <elliott> I think that's what Ubiquity was trying to get at
18:51:17 <ais523> (that's what I'm doing atm)
18:51:29 <ais523> elliott: same; I'm not convinced that that's a bad idea
18:51:39 <ais523> although I think there's a reasonably high chance that Mozilla will screw it up
18:51:44 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, oh and traps. Lots of traps.
18:52:03 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, with guard dog for the single entrance corridor.
18:52:06 <elliott> ais523: I think Ubiquity is dead after Aza left
18:52:17 <elliott> Vorpal: traps are practically cheating
18:52:34 <elliott> hmm, I was meaning to ask: Unix users, what mail client do/MUA you use? (if it's Evolution, don't bother responding)
18:52:46 <elliott> I'm wondering if it's feasible to switch away from gmail for my mail
18:52:54 <elliott> Vorpal: they're incredibly overpowered
18:52:57 <ais523> elliott: heh, I won't bother responding then
18:53:01 <Vorpal> elliott, anyway I wasn't saying that it was a good idea. Just that such a fort survives well.
18:53:03 <ais523> interestingly, I despise Thunderbird
18:53:07 <elliott> ais523: yes you will (you did)
18:53:18 <ais523> whereas I'm OK with evolution
18:53:26 <elliott> Vorpal: IIRC traps' power is marked as a bug in the official tracker
18:53:31 <ais523> I've also tried using mail(1), but it's a little primitive
18:53:33 <Vorpal> <elliott> hmm, I was meaning to ask: Unix users, what mail client do/MUA you use? (if it's Evolution, don't bother responding) <-- for reading local reports from cron and so on?
18:53:35 <elliott> ais523: I don't remember liking Thunderbird, but maybe a user can convince me it got better
18:53:48 <ais523> I ended up trying it again recently, it had got even worse
18:53:51 <elliott> Vorpal: what do you think?
18:54:00 <ais523> Vorpal: presumably for over-Internet email
18:54:13 <Vorpal> elliott, do you run a local MTA? ;)
18:54:15 <elliott> Server-synchronisation features are desired, but I don't care whether it's Maildir over ssh or IMAP
18:54:17 <ais523> (wow, I didn't realise that that disambiguator would be ever needed again)
18:54:25 <Vorpal> elliott, for reading cron job reports I use alpine. I ended up using tunderbird for IMAP access to gmail.
18:54:29 <elliott> And I'm fine running a separate daemon to synchronise it as long as it's easy to pull, preferably from within the client
18:54:42 <elliott> ais523: clearly, it should be called imail
18:55:25 <Vorpal> wait that looks wrong too
18:55:45 <Vorpal> elliott, yeah whatever, modulo typos
18:56:19 <elliott> 04:32:55: <evincar> What's even more odd is the class of programs that are designed not to halt.
18:56:20 <elliott> 04:33:08: <evincar> Telephony systems, aircraft controllers, that sort of thing.
18:56:20 <elliott> they are not designed to halt, but they are designed to be productive (technical term)
18:56:33 <elliott> in other words, they're a transformation from codata to codata
18:57:08 <Vorpal> there are LOTS of such systems even outside such specialised applications
18:57:19 <Vorpal> operating systems, web servers, and so on
18:57:35 <elliott> yes; nobody wants a non-halting program, really
18:57:40 <elliott> they want a non-halting, productive program
18:57:50 <elliott> which are expressable in total languages
18:57:59 <elliott> (although maybe not as easily as you'd like but that applies to existing total languages in general)
18:58:34 <Vorpal> elliott, I would say everyone wants productive programs. Some may halt. For example: simulate the weather for the next 4 days, then output the result and halt
18:58:55 <elliott> Vorpal: I am sceptical you know the technical definition of productive
18:59:15 <Vorpal> elliott, hm indeed, I wasn't aware it had a technical definition.
18:59:19 <elliott> unfortunately, I don't know anywhere good to point you to learn it
18:59:21 <Sgeo> TIL that there's a technical definition of productive
19:00:17 <Vorpal> elliott, so tell me what the technical definition is.
19:00:56 <Vorpal> elliott, practise makes perfect
19:01:37 <Vorpal> elliott, I meant for you to learn teaching
19:03:02 <Vorpal> elliott, where did you learn that technical definition of "productive"
19:03:26 <Gregor> Maaan, sound physics are terrible.
19:03:33 <elliott> I don't recall. Maybe some Coq thing.
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19:03:55 <Gregor> So, amplitude drops off with 1/d^2, but because decibels are some kind of crazy human nonsense, they drop off with 1/d? What kind of nonsense is this?
19:04:08 <elliott> Gregor learns "logarithms".
19:04:12 <Vorpal> Gregor, dB are logarithmic
19:04:27 <elliott> Gregor "Math is science, what are logarithms" Richards (family motto)
19:04:29 <Gregor> But the confusing thing about dB is the human factor, not the math.
19:04:32 <Vorpal> elliott, and snap, you beat me to it
19:04:40 <Vorpal> Gregor, that is dBA isn't it?
19:04:42 <elliott> Enemy of Opensourcia, motto "what is frp"
19:06:07 <Gregor> Human in the sense that the reason why decibels exist is to match some human understanding of sound.
19:06:33 <Vorpal> Gregor, I mean, the human-ear-compensated thingy is dBA iirc? While plain dB is the simple logarithmic scale.
19:06:45 <Vorpal> Gregor, err, dB is used outside of sound.
19:07:03 <Vorpal> for example: signal and noise levels of wifi
19:07:45 <Vorpal> Gregor, how is that relevant?
19:08:47 <elliott> 06:31:42: <evincar> Hmm, I'm reading the C-- spec. So far I quite like it.
19:08:48 <elliott> 07:02:56: <evincar> Seems a shame that C-- hasn't taken off like LLVM has.
19:08:48 <elliott> 07:03:21: <evincar> With the exception of the Cmm used by GHC.
19:08:48 <elliott> C-- is a dead project outside of GHC, which has its own dialect.
19:09:16 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, decibels are defined without any reference to humans IIRC.
19:09:39 <Gregor> Yes, the definition is just a logarithmic scale of amplitude.
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19:10:10 <Vorpal> why is transmitting power of wlan measured in dBm and not mW? In iwconfig output that is
19:10:20 <elliott_> Gregor: Also you didn't answer my QUESTION
19:10:24 <Gregor> But the question is, why do we need a logarithmic scale of amplitude? What was wrong with a linear scale? I know why pitch is logscale, and it's for strictly human reasons, even though the actual measure of pitch isn't human.
19:10:51 <elliott_> Gregor: THERE IS NO MUA CALLED STRUDEL
19:10:59 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, dude, there are very good theoretical reasons for pitch to be logarithmic.
19:11:37 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, I'm not familiar with it, what is it?
19:12:13 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: If humans didn't hear sound how we did, science would be muddling along with a linear scale of frequency and still be able to understand resonance, harmonics, etc.
19:12:54 <Vorpal> elliott_, execute this in bash: echo $'#!/bin/sh\nexec mail' > strudel && chmod +x strudel
19:13:08 <Vorpal> elliott_, didn't say it was
19:13:18 <Gregor> elliott_: So what's this mua nonsense :P
19:13:20 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, sure, but we could never have defined any units other than the kilogram, second, kelvin, metre, ampere, mole and candela.
19:13:29 <Vorpal> Gregor, elliott_ is looking for a MUA
19:13:49 <elliott_> Gregor: 18:52:34: <elliott> hmm, I was meaning to ask: Unix users, what mail client do/MUA you use? (if it's Evolution, don't bother responding)
19:13:49 <elliott_> 18:52:46: <elliott> I'm wondering if it's feasible to switch away from gmail for my mail
19:14:03 <Gregor> I use thunderbird, and now elliott_ will complain about it.
19:14:05 <Vorpal> elliott_, while thunderbird isn't perfect, it is okay.
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19:14:41 <Vorpal> elliott_, you mean a different mail provider than gmail?
19:14:43 <elliott_> Gregor: Nope, I've so far just ignored people who say Thunderbird, because they need to convince me it didn't stop being crap in the past five years :)
19:14:58 <elliott_> Vorpal: I use gmail as my client. I can set up qmail myself, I just want to know what clients people use.
19:15:21 <Gregor> elliott_: It's hard to convince you of things if you're ignoring me :P
19:15:28 <Gregor> Of course, it's hard to convince of things anyway, but *eh*
19:15:35 <Vorpal> elliott_, hm not sure what clients support maildir these days. Haven't been using qmail for quite a while
19:15:54 <Vorpal> Gregor, you forgot the subject of that sentence
19:16:15 <Gregor> Vorpal: Subjects are for losers.
19:16:31 <Vorpal> elliott_, right. For qmail, get netqmail iirc. To support SPF and such iirc. I think that was in the netqmail patch set. But it was years ago I used it.
19:16:33 <elliott_> Can Thunderbird do GMail-style conversations? Oh, hmm, https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/gmail-conversation-view/ seems to be an extension for is.
19:16:46 <Gregor> Anyway, suffice it to say that physically-realistic reverberation is so terrible >_<
19:16:49 <Vorpal> Gregor, as in you forgot "you" or "elliott" in that line.
19:16:51 <elliott_> My recollection of Thunderbird is basically "direct clone of Outlook Express and therefore just painful".
19:17:05 <Gregor> Vorpal: Yes, as subjects are for losers.
19:17:32 <Vorpal> elliott_, it changed a bit. And it is quite a bit better than OE.
19:17:59 <elliott_> I'm tempted to try sup again, but I really dislike ncurses, and I don't know how maintained it is these days.
19:18:08 <elliott_> (I'm surprised nobody's yelled about mutt being great yet.)
19:18:16 <Vorpal> elliott_, give it a try for an hour or so, you can uninstall it and do rm -rf ~/.thunderbird if you didn't like it.
19:18:34 <Vorpal> elliott_, I used mutt in the past. I prefer alpine though.
19:18:54 <elliott_> Vorpal: I know I can; I'm just trying to prioritise through suggestions first.
19:19:11 <Vorpal> elliott_, does kmail still exist?
19:19:32 <Vorpal> elliott_, last I used it was during KDE 3. I have no idea how it changed since then.
19:19:46 <Vorpal> It was okayish, better support for maildir and such than thunderbird iirc.
19:19:58 <elliott_> And it's more of a "contact suite" thing. It seems to be very KDE.
19:20:00 <Vorpal> elliott_, sounds like an address book application
19:20:30 <elliott_> Vorpal: Well, Wikipedia says it's KMail + KAddressBook + KOrganizer + Akregator + KNode (Usenet).
19:20:39 <elliott_> Although it does look like you can start those separately.
19:20:54 <elliott_> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/KDE4.2-KMail.png ;; yeah, I'll pass. I doubt it could possibly be better than Thunderbird.
19:21:17 <Vorpal> knode was terrible, I remember that
19:21:31 <elliott_> I don't use Usenet, like everybody else.
19:21:45 <ais523> I like it, but generally just use Google Groups as I don't have a newsserver subscription
19:21:54 <Vorpal> elliott_, I stopped using it these days.
19:22:02 <ais523> I think it ought to be more popular among people who know what they're doing and less popular among people who don't
19:22:04 <ais523> then it would be great
19:22:05 <Vorpal> sad to see it die though
19:22:23 <elliott_> ais523: it died because it has no technological means to do that
19:22:24 <Vorpal> ais523, you mean like before eternal september?
19:22:34 <ais523> elliott_: heh, perhaps
19:22:37 <elliott_> ais523: which is the fate of pretty much every community nowadays
19:22:45 <elliott_> ais523: except accelerated because now the internet is huge
19:22:57 <ais523> communities ideally need to be moderately well known
19:23:01 <ais523> in order to stop that happening
19:23:04 <ais523> e.g. idiots just haven't heard of them
19:23:06 <Vorpal> elliott_, this channel, what about it?
19:23:22 <elliott_> ais523: reddit seems like it'll probably last for ages and ages, but at a much lower quality than it started with; the voting system keeps spam and blatant trolls down to a minimum, but it also promotes hivemind thinking
19:23:40 <elliott_> except trying to cancel all spam posts, I guess?
19:23:43 <Vorpal> ais523, it is possible to maintain small communities that work like that. But once it grows past a certain point it seems to break down.
19:23:48 <ais523> elliott_: it had killfiles
19:23:57 <ais523> it's entirely possible to have two independent communities in the same newsgroup as a result
19:24:15 <elliott_> ais523: that doesn't make it any easier to run a server with that high spam traffic; and how do you think killfiles would help if botnets were developed when spamming usenet was still relevant?
19:24:18 <Vorpal> ais523, did that ever happen?
19:24:31 <elliott_> Vorpal: hopefully, it'll stay that way
19:24:47 <ais523> elliott_: oh, I was referring to humans not spambots
19:24:49 <elliott_> and everyone here apart from Sgeo seems to be pretty good at selectively inviting people, if they do at all
19:25:00 <Vorpal> elliott_, we need fizzie to make a graph of average number of people over time
19:25:05 <ais523> spam's an independent problem
19:25:10 <elliott_> Vorpal: it would look like the graph of log size over time
19:25:36 <Vorpal> elliott_, doubtful. Some people idle, some speak more.
19:25:50 <Vorpal> possibly that cancels each other
19:26:18 <Vorpal> elliott_, but hasn't it been pretty stable over the last year or so? Around 40-60
19:26:27 <Gregor> Damn it, improving the realism of reverb just makes it sound terrible :P
19:26:40 <elliott_> who actually talks in here, though? (. to prevent annoying pings) o.erjan, me, ais, l.ymee, n.ooga, c.opumpkin, iti, PH, you, c.heater, S.geo, D.eewiant, o.lsner, s.hachaf, c.oppro, f.izzie, a.tehwa, q.uintopia, g.regor are the only people who have talked recently
19:26:45 <Vorpal> Gregor, use an existing reverb implementation?
19:27:13 <Gregor> Vorpal: Reverb implementations that do more than single reverberation or "ambient" (read: bullshit) reverb don't exist.
19:27:15 <elliott_> copumpkin: heh, how did I manage to?
19:27:19 <Gregor> s/don't exist/are hyper-expensive/
19:27:23 <elliott_> Vorpal: well, that was a filtering of the people online now
19:27:26 <Vorpal> elliott_, more or less yeah. Plus that new user today.
19:27:38 <elliott_> copumpkin: but I said "opumpkin"!
19:27:45 <elliott_> Vorpal: oh, I just got to them in the logs
19:27:57 <elliott_> Vorpal: I doubt they'll stay very long; people don't tend to
19:27:59 <Gregor> "O pumpkin my pumpkin"
19:28:11 <elliott_> 14:59:31: <marzin> for example you can't use a HAIKU-OS widgeds in Haskell
19:28:27 <elliott_> Gregor: but yeah, GTK, but don't even think about using it from C
19:28:37 <Vorpal> elliott_, not good at English, but a honest attempt at a new esolang. Inspired by brainfuck but not one of the simple substitution clones.
19:28:40 <elliott_> Gregor: ((GObjects, man; GObjects.))
19:28:43 <Vorpal> someone should take a closer look at it
19:28:44 <copumpkin> elliott_: the string pumpkin is good enough :P
19:28:58 <elliott_> copumpkin: Now all we need is a useful word with "pumpkin" in it, and we can annoy you all day.
19:29:03 <Gregor> elliott_: How about ... gcj gtk+ trololololol
19:29:08 <Vorpal> elliott_, what was that new language gnome invented? Vala or something like that?
19:29:16 <elliott_> Gregor: For GTK, better than C.
19:29:25 <elliott_> Gregor: Anything with any kind of objects or at least higher-order abstraction is better than C.
19:29:42 <elliott_> Because you don't have to write object system plugging code every line :P
19:29:43 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott_, let's define opumpkin to mean 'Brainfuck derivative'.
19:29:44 <Vorpal> Gregor, you won't believe this, but GTK# from C# is quite nice compared to GTK from C.
19:29:51 <elliott_> Vorpal: Vala is pretty good, for glib and GTK :P
19:30:01 <elliott_> I wouldn't write a program in it from scratch.
19:30:09 <elliott_> Vorpal: If Gregor has ever used GTK from C, he will believe that.
19:30:11 <Vorpal> elliott_, you coded in vala?
19:30:18 <elliott_> Vorpal: I wrote a hello world once :-P
19:30:29 <Vorpal> elliott_, with "quite nice" I mean "actually usable" as well.
19:30:46 <elliott_> 15:48:36: <fizzie> What the WHAT.
19:30:46 <elliott_> 15:48:43: <fizzie> The Linux Skype client accepts s/// rewrites.
19:30:46 <elliott_> 15:49:06: <fizzie> I just made one in the chat side, and it edited my original message, and put a little pen icon with a "this message has been edited" popup to it.
19:30:55 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, I done it in befunge. Using t
19:30:57 <elliott_> fizzie: I am going to make everyone I talk to switch to Skype now.
19:31:42 <elliott_> 15:55:38: <Vorpal> fizzie, actually only on mac and linux it seems.
19:32:11 <elliott_> (Though that post saying it didn't work on Windows is a year old, so maybe that's changed.)
19:32:16 <Vorpal> elliott_, it works on windows? Or did you mean that you won't make people switch to skype?
19:32:25 <elliott_> 17:21:15: <zzo38> I say I want to make the Haskell with many extension of my ideas, but they don't like it because is insane and is worthless and so on...
19:32:25 <elliott_> 17:21:50: <zzo38> (But what if you want to use the insane version of Haskell?)
19:32:34 <elliott_> Vorpal: I meant if it doesn't work on Windows, then the reason no longer exists :P
19:32:39 <elliott_> Because everyone uses Windows.
19:33:16 <Vorpal> elliott_, I would suspect this channel, and IRC in general, has a larger percentage of linux users than the overall in the world.
19:33:36 <elliott_> Vorpal: yes, obviously by "everyone I talk to" I mean "you bastards".
19:33:54 <Vorpal> elliott_, you have a life outside #esoteric and #haskell and so on?
19:34:19 <elliott_> IT DEPENDS WHAT YOU MEAN BY LIFE
19:35:55 <elliott_> Surely someone here uses a client that isn't Thunderbird.
19:36:04 <elliott_> oerjan: WHAT MAIL CLIENT DO YOU USE
19:36:15 <ais523> elliott_: I wouldn't even have noticed your comment if you didn't ping me
19:36:23 <elliott_> Predicting either "Outlook" or "mutt or something through putty".
19:37:31 <Vorpal> that is a lot of lines
19:37:55 <Vorpal> elliott_, with nick merging too
19:38:03 <Vorpal> not sure if elliott_ is merged into it though
19:38:12 <elliott_> Not a very good merging if it doesn't use prefixes.
19:39:08 <elliott_> Why do people even write ncurses applications that aren't roguelikes.
19:39:13 <Vorpal> elliott_, yep it merged them
19:39:27 <Vorpal> ------------------+--------
19:39:37 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
19:39:55 <ais523> elliott_: wow, have you really talked more than everyone else put together?
19:39:59 <Vorpal> then pikhq, gregor, sgeo, fizzie, Deewiant, Phantom_Hoover, cakeprophet
19:40:12 <Vorpal> ais523, that was just the top few lines. But let me sum the rest.
19:40:14 <elliott_> Vorpal: Take the cnt of every line?
19:40:24 <elliott_> Then just take out my cnt. Uh, rephrase that.
19:40:30 <ais523> Vorpal: are you merging, say, elliott_ and elliott?
19:40:53 <ais523> (I actually use ais523_ and ais523 for different purposes, even though they're both me)
19:40:59 <oerjan> <elliott_> oerjan: WHAT MAIL CLIENT DO YOU USE <-- alpine
19:41:06 <elliott_> oerjan: oh, I should have guessed
19:41:15 <Vorpal> ais523, and also ehird, tusho, and so on
19:41:26 <ais523> if you're going further back, indeed
19:41:29 <Vorpal> ais523, I'm selecting from a view with those merged
19:41:31 <Vorpal> arvid=> select SUM(x.cnt) from (select nick,COUNT(*) as cnt from irc.logs_na group by nick order by cnt desc) as x where x.nick != 'elliott';
19:41:44 <ais523> so elliott's responsible fore about a third of the conversation in here
19:41:56 <ais523> oh, excluding elliott, so a quarter
19:42:00 <Vorpal> elliott_, logs_na is a merged view
19:42:09 <elliott_> ais523: over all time, not just the time I've been here, presumably
19:42:18 <elliott_> I don't really talk THAT much, I just merge lines less :P
19:42:35 <Vorpal> elliott_, indeed. Give me the date when you joined
19:42:50 <elliott_> Vorpal: do you mean first joined, or first joined and started talking?
19:42:53 <elliott_> two thousand and six, for the former
19:42:57 <elliott_> sometime in two thousand and seven for the latter
19:43:04 <elliott_> Maybe I should just write my own mail cli- NO
19:43:41 <Vorpal> arvid=> select * from irc.logs_na where nick = 'elliott' ORDER BY serial LIMIT 1;
19:43:42 <Vorpal> serial | tstamp | nick | target | uhost | type | body
19:43:42 <Vorpal> --------+---------------------+---------+--------+--------------------------------------------+------+------
19:43:42 <Vorpal> 208001 | 2006-12-29 21:42:41 | elliott | | n=ehird@user-5440e204.wfd80a.dsl.pol.co.uk | 3 |
19:43:53 -!- augur has joined.
19:44:00 <Vorpal> elliott_, but sure, let me select the first line you spoke in
19:44:25 <Vorpal> > select * from irc.logs_na where nick = 'elliott' and type = 0 ORDER BY serial LIMIT 1;
19:44:25 <Vorpal> serial | tstamp | nick | target | uhost | type | body
19:44:25 <Vorpal> --------+---------------------+---------+--------+-------+------+---------------------------------------------------------
19:44:25 <Vorpal> 271395 | 2007-05-14 17:49:00 | elliott | | | 0 | i honestly think my language may be worse than malbolge
19:44:25 <lambdabot> <no location info>: parse error on input `where'
19:44:32 <elliott_> that was a terrible language btw
19:44:34 <Vorpal> wait what, didn't you speak a single time?
19:44:45 <Vorpal> elliott_, which language was it?
19:44:49 <elliott_> not in 2006, I think I got too intimidated by the silence and long user list and left
19:44:55 <elliott_> Vorpal: never named, never worked, almost certainly not TC
19:45:11 <Vorpal> select SUM(x.cnt) from (select nick,COUNT(*) as cnt from irc.logs_na where serial >= 271395 group by nick order by cnt desc) as x where x.nick != 'elliott';
19:45:36 <Vorpal> 1589097 lines that you didn't say since then
19:46:19 <oerjan> elliott_: http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/ehird.pl and http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/ehird.py ? >:)
19:46:35 <elliott_> oerjan: no, that was a good language
19:47:04 <oerjan> approximately the same time, though
19:47:30 <elliott_> 2007-05-30.txt:00:22:26: <oerjan> anyway what i did do is at http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/ehird.pl
19:48:56 <elliott_> except it doesn't do escapes, I think
19:49:05 <elliott_> ebcause python's re language accepts \n
19:49:14 <elliott_> but oerjan doesn't fix escapes in the replacement
19:49:22 <Vorpal> 641872/1589097 = .4039224792
19:49:44 <elliott_> you need to add the numerator back on
19:50:09 <Vorpal> elliott_, still a sizable proportion
19:50:16 <elliott_> also, qmail users: what's them good things for synchronising maildirs or imap
19:50:32 <Vorpal> elliott_, also wait, this is broken. It contains joins and parts too
19:51:06 <elliott_> ais523: oh dear, Thunderbird is three major versions ahead of my repository version
19:51:28 <ais523> elliott_: it has Firefox syndrome, for the same reason Firefox does, right?
19:51:37 <elliott_> there's an official PPA, it seems
19:51:48 <elliott_> ais523: yes; personally, I'm sceptical of the value of releases as a concept altogether
19:51:56 <ais523> oh, that reminds me, is there a sane way to run gnome 3 programs on gnome 2?
19:52:14 <Vorpal> 633741 / (1410147+633741) = .3100664028
19:52:16 <elliott_> ais523: compile them, then run them; but why not use gnome 3 + metacity + gnome-panel instead?
19:52:17 <ais523> I don't want to install gnome 3, but am wondering if there's just a library I can install or something
19:52:18 <Vorpal> elliott_, that is more accurate
19:52:23 <elliott_> that's easier, and catches gtk 3 changes
19:52:29 <elliott_> and is basically identical, I gather
19:52:39 <Vorpal> ais523, I included joins and parts above, see revised numbers
19:52:44 <elliott_> joins and parts should be excluded
19:52:48 <ais523> elliott_: because I don't want to upgrade the system right now, and am trying to run the latest version of one gnome 3 version to see if bugs in it have been fixed
19:52:50 <Vorpal> this is just messages and /mes
19:52:55 <Vorpal> elliott_, yep I fixed it
19:52:59 <elliott_> ais523: try and compile it; with any luck it'll work
19:53:03 <Vorpal> so you spoke ~31% of the lines
19:53:08 <ais523> elliott_: I did, it said I didn't have gnome 3 installed
19:53:14 <ais523> let me try again to get the exact message
19:53:14 <elliott_> aha, there's an official ppa for thunderbird
19:53:24 <elliott_> ais523: it's likely wanting gtk three
19:53:28 <Vorpal> ais523, gnome 3 itself is a bug.
19:53:37 <oerjan> elliott_: i vaguely thought i changed to python because it's re.sub _did_ allow escapes to work in the right places. but whatever.
19:53:37 <Vorpal> speaking of which, I saw somewhere that Torvalds said that too
19:53:45 <elliott_> oerjan: yes, but it won't replace in the _replacement_ string
19:53:53 <elliott_> Vorpal: -3, appeal to authority
19:54:18 <Vorpal> elliott_, I wasn't doing that. I was mentioning it. I was not saying that made it right
19:54:34 <oerjan> elliott_: well if you are sure of that.
19:54:57 <Vorpal> elliott_, anyway gnome 3 is horrible. Have you tried it? And not that unity stuff of ubuntu
19:54:58 <elliott_> oerjan: >>> re.sub('abc', '\\n', 'abc')
19:54:58 <elliott_> >>> print re.sub('abc', '\\n', 'abc')
19:55:27 <ais523> No package 'gtk+-3.0' found
19:55:30 <ais523> yep, it's GTK it needs
19:55:33 <elliott_> Vorpal: -4, ais523 has a problem that I am trying to help it with, butting in with your opinion on GNOME 3 is not really helpful
19:55:35 <ais523> and GTK 3 isn't in the repositories
19:55:39 <elliott_> ais523: if it's a different package, it might be a different .so too
19:55:44 <elliott_> ais523: so you might be able to install gtk3 yourself
19:56:02 <Vorpal> elliott_, -5 I don't care about your score system.
19:56:15 <ais523> it somehow managed to reintroduce bugs that I fixed myself (and sent them patches for which they accepted and it worked in the past)
19:56:18 <ais523> and make them even worse, somehow
19:56:20 <elliott_> ais523: looks like Oneiric has gtk 3, at least
19:56:29 <ais523> and I want to know if they've fixed them, and if not patch them again
19:56:35 <elliott_> Vorpal: -infinity, it's not mine, so shut up
19:56:38 <Vorpal> ais523, you could install gnome 3 elsewhere btw. And use -rpath or such
19:56:49 <ais523> elliott_: what's Oneiric?
19:56:50 <Vorpal> elliott_, why are you using it then
19:56:54 <elliott_> Vorpal: -nullity, I just suggested that, except only the dependency he actually needs
19:57:06 <oerjan> `python -c print "\\n"
19:57:11 <HackEgo> File "<string>", line 1 \ print "\\n" \ ^ \ IndentationError: unexpected indent
19:57:16 <oerjan> `run python -c print "\\n"
19:57:20 <ais523> elliott_: perhaps it's because I'm on an LTS version
19:57:22 <ais523> I wonder if there's a PPA
19:57:32 <elliott_> ais523: I'm telling you to just nab the package from the upcoming 11.10
19:57:36 <elliott_> assuming it's already in there
19:57:39 <oerjan> `run python -c print '"\\n"'
19:57:49 <ais523> elliott_: oh, you mean just grab the .deb and install by hand?
19:57:53 -!- monqy has joined.
19:58:11 <elliott_> ais523: (or fiddle with apt's exclusion stuff but meh)
19:58:19 <elliott_> it's easier than compiling, at least, and more reversible than make install
19:58:19 <oerjan> elliott_: i'm just not sure what that '\n' you had above means
19:58:27 <elliott_> oerjan: It was '\\n', not '\n'.
19:58:29 <oerjan> is it backslash + n or a newline
19:58:33 <elliott_> oerjan: I printed it for a reason
19:58:37 <elliott_> to show that it got turned into \n
19:58:40 <oerjan> elliott_: the printed result
19:58:47 <elliott_> <elliott_> oerjan: >>> re.sub('abc', '\\n', 'abc')
19:58:47 <elliott_> <elliott_> >>> print re.sub('abc', '\\n', 'abc')
19:58:54 <elliott_> if it was backslash then n, it would be printed like that
19:59:52 <Vorpal> remember Window Maker?
19:59:56 <Vorpal> whatever happened to it
19:59:58 * oerjan does not have enough memory for all umpteen escaping conventions
20:00:12 <Vorpal> last release 6 years ago
20:00:15 <elliott_> oerjan: well obviously if I input as '\\n' and it's REPL'd as '\n' something changed
20:00:33 <elliott_> Vorpal: WM (git)snapshotWe do not provide our own binary packages. However, third partiessometimes make them available.
20:00:38 <elliott_> Revision by John H. Robinson, IV, 2011-08-17
20:00:48 <elliott_> http://repo.or.cz/w/wmaker-crm.git
20:01:03 <Vorpal> elliott_, I like that word "partiessometimes"
20:01:07 <elliott_> http://repo.or.cz/w/wmaker-crm.git/shortlog looks actively developed
20:02:14 <ais523> oh, I had a crazy dream last night
20:02:24 <ais523> I dreamt I was reading a book about Objective-C, to try to learn Objective-C
20:02:37 <elliott_> Would it be possible and appropriate to mention politely somewhere that Window Maker is pretty outdated and generally rubbish? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.203.82.226 (talk) 13:50, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
20:02:40 <ais523> I realised I was dreaming when the book reached the end of my knowledge of Objective-C, and would have to explain something to me that I didn't already know
20:03:14 <ais523> but it turned out to be a recursive dream, and I merely dreamt I'd woken up rather than actually waking up
20:03:50 <Vorpal> ais523, heh, I never had a recursive dream that I remembered
20:04:07 * oerjan doesn't like his recursive dreams
20:04:08 <ais523> normally after waking up the first time, it's just annoying
20:04:20 <ais523> because you go through the normal just-after-waking-up routine and nothing's unusual
20:04:26 <ais523> then you wake up and have to do it all again
20:04:42 <Vorpal> ais523, start by reading some text, turning away and trying to read it again. Every time you wake up.
20:04:54 <Vorpal> should speed up the process
20:05:02 <oerjan> i tend to dream i'm in my childhood home, and then dream that i wake up sad in my apartment. and then i wake up for real, still sad.
20:05:03 <ais523> Vorpal: it hasn't happened for years
20:05:16 <ais523> this has been my first recursive dream for ages
20:05:47 <Vorpal> oerjan, you need to get a nicer apartment then. So you get a nice surprise when you wake up the second time
20:09:38 <Phantom_Hoover> I haven't had that, although a few times I've been lying in bed completely convinced that I'm in another house.
20:10:06 <elliott_> hmm, I'm scared of trying out Thunderbird because my gmail is so huge
20:10:14 <elliott_> can I tell it to pretend I created my gmail ten days ago :D
20:10:27 <elliott_> huh, only 1171 megs used... still a lot to download
20:11:25 <Vorpal> elliott_, you need to enable sync for it to do that. Right click on a folder and select properties or something
20:11:33 <Vorpal> and select available when offline
20:11:47 <Vorpal> elliott_, if you don't do that it won't download more than the index and the mails you open
20:11:53 <Vorpal> assuming you use IMAP and not POP
20:12:23 <Vorpal> elliott_, not near 1171 MB though.
20:12:24 <elliott_> nice, thunderbird deduces the configuration from my email
20:12:38 <Vorpal> elliott_, yes it does that nowdays.
20:12:48 <Vorpal> for a handful of providers
20:13:18 <Vorpal> elliott_, remember to enable IMAP in the gmail preferences too
20:18:40 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
20:18:40 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Changing host).
20:18:40 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
20:20:11 <CakeProphet> Vorpal: productivity, in management lingo, is the relationship between the completion of a task/production and time.
20:20:23 <CakeProphet> does that count as a technical definition?
20:21:32 * oerjan swats CakeProphet -----###
20:22:06 -!- Sgeo has joined.
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20:22:44 <Vorpal> oerjan, what is the technical definition
20:22:51 <Vorpal> oerjan, I don't know it, but would like to know.
20:22:56 <Vorpal> elliott wouldn't tell me
20:23:28 <Vorpal> oerjan, it seems only he and you know this technical definition so far.
20:24:03 <oerjan> well afaik productivity of codata means that you're guaranteed to evaluate to a constructor in finite time, this should be clear enough if you understand haskell's laziness
20:24:33 <oerjan> so you can have an infinite list as codata, but you can get at each element in finite time
20:25:37 <oerjan> well this is my intuition, not the technical definition, which i may not even have read :P
20:26:16 <oerjan> in contrast, for data, you must be able to evaluate the _entire_ structure in finite time.
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20:26:48 <oerjan> (this applies to terminating languages, haskell of course has no scruples with never halting)
20:26:55 <elliott_> hmm, thunderbird conversations has some flaws
20:27:27 <ais523> just use proper quoting in the actual emails, then you don't even need threading
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20:27:50 <elliott_> ais523: I vastly prefer flat threading over any other kind of organisation
20:28:25 <oerjan> one thing i'm still not clear about is what happens if you have interleaving of data and codata constructors.
20:28:33 <ais523> elliott_: as in, sorting emails by which email that wasn't a reply to anything they're an indirect reply to?
20:28:54 <elliott_> ais523: do the normal threading algorithm, then collapse it to a single level of hierarchy, ordering by date on the rest :P
20:28:57 <elliott_> (note: algorithm is inefficient)
20:29:38 <ais523> I suppose that in my case, chronological order of emails is often more important than context (which should be in the email already)
20:29:48 <ais523> I want to have all the new emails sorted to the bottom, no matter what conversation they're part of
20:30:15 <elliott_> no thunderbird stop downloading all my agora mail...
20:30:24 <elliott_> ais523: that's why you sort conversations by date of last message
20:30:34 <elliott_> and read messages are collapsed by default
20:30:34 <ais523> but what if the most recent conversation is a really long one?
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20:30:48 <ais523> what do you mean by "collapsed"?
20:31:07 <Phantom_Hoover> So I'm assuming Evolution has a litany of flaws which I've never noticed?
20:31:13 <elliott_> ais523: reduced to a byline + date; often elided entirely and replaced by a UI element that, when clicked, expands (in the case of tons of conversations)
20:31:16 <elliott_> ais523: reduced to a byline + date; often elided entirely and replaced by a UI element that, when clicked, expands (in the case of tons of messages)
20:31:22 <elliott_> (usually all but the first few and last few)
20:31:29 <ais523> elliott_: oh, that's the state I have emails in normally
20:31:44 <ais523> even so, I'd imagine a thousand-email thread would scroll other emails off the top of the screen easily
20:31:47 <elliott_> ais523: except you don't see the conversation
20:31:56 <ais523> CakeProphet: no, I haven't
20:32:10 <CakeProphet> oh, well, it does something similar to what you guys are talking about I believe.
20:32:17 <ais523> the only webmail I've used are Outlook Web Access, roundcube, and Yahoo! Mail Classic
20:32:34 <ais523> which all use the sane method of one pane for the email you're looking at, and one that's just subjects/senders/etc
20:32:43 <elliott_> CakeProphet: i'm describing gmail's behaviour to ais523
20:32:49 <CakeProphet> except that new conversations appear at the top (but each email is at the bottom of its conversation)
20:32:51 <elliott_> ais523: anyway, no, that isn't the state you have emails in normally
20:33:22 <CakeProphet> is that not like... the default behavior nowadays?
20:33:34 <elliott_> ais523: maybe I'll switch to nmh
20:34:16 * CakeProphet finds gmails behavior to be preferred to single email lists.
20:36:16 <elliott_> CakeProphet: I heard; we told you you're stupid in -minecraft and gave you a bunch of pointers.
20:36:29 <CakeProphet> one guy "withdrew from society" and then later went crazy and killed like 6 people with a bronze battle axe. Seemed to happen as soon as I started furnishing weapons.
20:36:34 <elliott_> <elliott_> CakeProphet: I heard; we told you you're stupid in -minecraft and gave you a bunch of pointers.
20:36:35 <Phantom_Hoover> CakeProphet, you have felt the sting of the tantrum spiral.
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20:36:45 <elliott_> CakeProphet: http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Strange_mood
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20:36:53 <elliott_> you did not account for the strange mood's wishes, so they went berserk
20:36:56 <elliott_> and you had no military to stop him
20:36:58 <elliott_> so you went into a tantrum spiral
20:37:19 <elliott_> CakeProphet: Protip: If you can't account for their wishes, just wall-in their workshop
20:37:24 <elliott_> they'll just go insane in their own little hole
20:37:24 <Phantom_Hoover> CakeProphet, that he had an axe was a rather crippling oversight.
20:37:31 <elliott_> But yeah, http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Strange_mood http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Strange_mood http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Strange_mood http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Strange_mood
20:37:41 <elliott_> whenever a weird message comes up just google it :P
20:38:09 <elliott_> You... won't survive without the wiki.
20:38:25 <elliott_> It's not like NetHack where it's orders of magnitude harder; even the DF help system points you to the wiki.
20:38:38 <CakeProphet> also my workshops were all kind of directly connected to one another in a giant room
20:39:06 <elliott_> CakeProphet: It's... not hard wall someone in.
20:39:14 <elliott_> Just draw a square around their room.
20:39:20 <elliott_> It'll easily complete before they go berserk.
20:39:38 <elliott_> CakeProphet: Their workshop room, FFS.
20:39:43 <elliott_> Read the wiki; strange mooders claim a workshop.
20:39:57 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott_, that's not going to be a good idea if they're in a forge.
20:40:09 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: Better than a tantrum spiral.
20:40:21 <CakeProphet> elliott_: oh okay. I dealt with one of those but I didn't think the other guy claimed a workshop
20:40:40 <elliott_> If he withdrew from society, he did.
20:41:21 <Phantom_Hoover> If they don't have the right workshop, they won't claim one.
20:41:34 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: Do they just wander around until they kill everyone?
20:41:42 <Phantom_Hoover> CakeProphet, I assume he picked it up for some reason.
20:42:09 <CakeProphet> uh it took me a while to realize what was happening so I didn't really pay much attention until there were already bloody corpses.
20:42:26 <elliott_> Well that's your own damn fault. :p
20:43:24 <CakeProphet> in any case I don't have the time to invest into another game atm
20:43:50 <CakeProphet> the game I'm brainstorming is quite different in style though.
20:43:58 <elliott_> It's not a game if you die before you get set up. That's like getting mauled on the first level of NetHack and calling it a day.
20:44:36 <olsner> elliott_: that's how I play nethack, every time
20:45:23 <CakeProphet> elliott_: also when building workships would be better to give each of them individual rooms with furniture and stuff?
20:45:56 <elliott_> CakeProphet: You... don't put furniture in workshops, as far as I know.
20:45:58 * CakeProphet didn't realize until halfway through this his officers wanted a bed. >_>
20:46:07 <elliott_> CakeProphet: Dude, I told you to make bedrooms for everyone.
20:46:23 <elliott_> Not enough for everyone, evidently.
20:46:27 <elliott_> CakeProphet: They automatically designate.
20:46:32 <elliott_> You have to use q to make the beds a room.
20:46:52 <CakeProphet> and yeah I had a population of like 57, definitely didn't have enough rooms.
20:47:26 <Phantom_Hoover> That was one of the things that brought down Handlekindled.
20:47:43 <CakeProphet> but dude my dining hall was bitchin. 2 long tables with 2 kitchens and ENGRAVED AND DETAILS WALLS/FLOORS
20:47:55 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: not... really.
20:48:01 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: Our dorfs were ecstatic beforehand.
20:48:10 <elliott_> Bedrooms wouldn't soften the blow of having nothing to eat or drink.
20:48:17 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott_ was too lazy to keep up room expansion, so by the time Taneb and I took over neither of us could be bothered to fix it.
20:48:26 <elliott_> Yes, but everybody was still really happy.
20:48:27 <CakeProphet> I think people were actually partying before the woodcutter guy went crazy.
20:48:44 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott_, FFS, the point is that it buffers the unhappiness.
20:48:57 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: Handlekindled was waaay too far gone for that, really.
20:49:20 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott_, there was a lack of food and drink. That's not unrecoverable.
20:49:41 <elliott_> The tantrum spiral occurred because we flailed around trying to fix that without doing what we had to do.
20:49:50 <Phantom_Hoover> Had they all had high-quality rooms, the spiral would have set in significantly later.
20:50:03 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: What /was/ it then?
20:50:13 <CakeProphet> elliott_: I had just got a massive farm working when mine happened.
20:50:29 * CakeProphet was still working on the hospital though... bad timing. :P
20:50:34 <Phantom_Hoover> A fortress of 200 can be more than fed by 2 5x5 plots, one of which produces food only ¼ of the year.
20:50:46 <elliott_> CakeProphet: Your farm... shouldn't be big.
20:51:06 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: Let's find out that CakeProphet has filled a whole level with farm and everything was going to break anyway.
20:51:21 <elliott_> (OK, I'm going by the word of that one guy on IRC, but a large farm is totally unnecessary, so.)
20:51:58 <elliott_> CakeProphet: It might have bad effects, and it's definitely utterly unnecessary.
20:51:58 <CakeProphet> dwarves don't like hording large amounts of food?
20:52:16 <Phantom_Hoover> Plots grow more if you grow the same crop consecutively.
20:52:36 <Phantom_Hoover> A huge plot will have far fewer plots growing over multiple seasons.
20:53:37 <Phantom_Hoover> I went for 5x5 plump helmet, 5x5 plump helmet/sweet pot/cave wheat/pig tail.
20:54:11 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, what about doing 25 1x1 instead?
20:54:36 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, macros
20:55:09 <CakeProphet> Phantom_Hoover: this game seems built for RST :P
20:55:29 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, well yes.
20:55:56 <Vorpal> I think df with an isomeric map view and a better interface would work well.
20:56:37 <elliott_> DF's interface is fine, modulo some nested menus, and labours.
20:57:23 <CakeProphet> I think I actually would be better with a english-word based command interface
20:58:08 <Vorpal> elliott_, yeah assigning jobs is horrible. I use dwarftherapist for that. Starting the game in wine after each time I get a wave of immigrants to assign jobs. Then going back to native linux version.
20:58:13 <elliott_> CakeProphet: That would definitely give you RSI.
20:58:30 <elliott_> Vorpal: DT works on Linux, you idiot.
20:58:36 <Vorpal> elliott_, because dwarftherapist does not work on linux
20:58:42 <elliott_> It needs root for me though; works for Phantom_Hoover without.
20:58:42 <Vorpal> elliott_, that is new then
20:58:55 <CakeProphet> elliott_: most of my time was spent tripping through menus awkwardly.
20:59:01 <Vorpal> elliott_, last I checked I had to run it under wine
20:59:23 <Vorpal> elliott_, last I checked = maybe a year ago
20:59:44 <elliott_> Vorpal: It's been maintained since last September.
21:01:50 * CakeProphet is so leet he doesn't programs that make his life easier.
21:02:49 <elliott_> CakeProphet: It's not about maknig your life easier, it's about assigning labours in spreadsheet style rather than individually going through every single dorf in your fortress (which will number about one hundred) just to find out who's any good at mining and assigning that labour with the awful menu.
21:03:15 <CakeProphet> Phantom_Hoover, text-only image macro maker
21:03:17 <elliott_> Unless you think DF's main challenge is menu navigation, it isn't about hardcoreness at all.
21:03:32 <CakeProphet> elliott_: I believe what you just said is equivalent to "making your life easier"
21:03:37 <Vorpal> elliott_, more like 150 than 100
21:04:04 <elliott_> CakeProphet: No, making your life easier would be something that did something actually game-relevant.
21:04:14 <Phantom_Hoover> CakeProphet, it's not making your life easier, it's making it bearable.
21:04:24 <elliott_> CakeProphet: Games aren't designed with deliberately terrible menu systems to give them additional difficulty.
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21:10:21 <fungot> elliott_: " exactly," i ventured, " but you, randolph carter, of boston on the earth or other planets where they traded. these creatures, in numbers apparently inexhaustible, were engaged in one stupendous migration from inconceivable heights to some depth conceivably or inconceivably below.
21:10:32 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft* nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
21:11:14 <ais523> hmm, so according to proggit, a root CA gave someone other than Google a wildcard cert for *.google.com
21:11:20 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: i must ponder this turn of events, it can have a powerful effect on time. ask the one to bring back lost loved ones... it's what that guy in medina, a village near the mystic mountain" 65,000,000 b. c.? yes. no.
21:11:33 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! eat! fun!
21:11:44 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: need a clone? the magician, nolstein bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out?! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. it's the kind! i've decided to stay with these humans! you're a traitor! you're not our king! but, we are far out
21:11:52 <fungot> olsner: i see. you know, i really care... a time portal? what in the...! ozzie's stumped! destroy bad man! big fire where lavos fall from sky! we no can call that the chrono trigger. it is r66-y? cool? who knows what would become of my mystics? i must win!
21:11:55 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: we are looking, but well behaved! crono!! i owe you one! you saved the day of lavos"... go to " leene square" 1000 a.d.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope.
21:12:20 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: we must do it to save you! who the heck are you?! c'mon!!
21:12:36 <Phantom_Hoover> fungot, first you're threatening to kill me, then you're saving me?
21:12:37 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: to the northwest of this cape. he took back the medal from the frog king. and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself!
21:15:04 <fungot> Vorpal: i shall help also. up down cancel left lab area right factory area caution! do not turn, now! oppose me, you...foreigners! you're worse than the gurus and miss you.
21:15:10 <fungot> Vorpal: i shall help also. let us return in time! it's a moonlight parade! this must be the invention. hope it still leaves you hungry! here you are the only one thing we need to defeat you, lavos.
21:15:24 <Vorpal> fungot, yes, yes, but what about that sword?
21:15:24 <fungot> Vorpal: yes, it's been awhile prometheus!
21:15:41 <Vorpal> fungot, stop annoying me
21:15:41 <fungot> Vorpal: cyrus! are you leaving!
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21:17:30 <elliott_> fungot: What can that sword alone not stop?
21:17:30 <fungot> elliott_: cyrus! are you leaving!
21:17:34 <fungot> elliott_: by thy leave, crono?!! you brought back my cat! thank you, crono!
21:17:39 <fungot> elliott_: but, we are far outnumbered! how can i do for you? thanks! it's about the missing queen. she still looks so much like leene, that they will take you to your place of execution?! strange, but!?
21:17:48 <elliott_> fizzie: You can do for me by saying that thing.
21:19:33 <CakeProphet> also apparently I shouldn't give soldiers food because they will get interrupted while eating and it will cause miasma as no one else can access it at that point.
21:20:04 <fungot> Vorpal: time to shove off! the name's bandeau. here to build the ocean palace?
21:20:11 <CakeProphet> might have been what happened with the miasma after my spiral. guys goes crazy, interrupts people eating in kitchen, and then corpses and rotting food = miasma
21:20:19 <fungot> Vorpal: the real queen's safe, right! right. wrong! please return! by the way, the wings! now this is a way to the ocean palace! and if you wish! we shall hold this position to the last man! big fire where lavos fall from sky! we no can call you " knight cyrus fell while protecting our kingdom from magus. i'd stay away!
21:20:26 <fungot> Vorpal: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! eat! fun! this bridge! but, we are far outnumbered! she claims this area, and reigns from high atop the sea. now, only the 3 entities you saw will help you leave, crono?!! you brought back my cat! thank you, crono!
21:20:32 <fungot> Vorpal: i see. you know, i really care... a time portal? what in the...! ozzie's stumped!
21:21:18 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, that is why you section off rooms so you can close them and open a hot spare
21:21:29 <Vorpal> forbidding the door and so on
21:21:32 <olsner> why don't we all just stop talking to fungot
21:21:33 <fungot> olsner: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care, and stay...healthy! my husband...he's...he's...gone... but he left me precious gifts! the seeds...and our child, it's ancient history now...
21:21:44 <oerjan> i'm sure fungot would like that.
21:21:44 <fungot> oerjan: that no one was allowed to use the crane, enter any two of these letters, a b y. end professor's message from the professor.
21:21:46 <Vorpal> olsner, because he hasn't mentioned the sword yet
21:21:55 <olsner> fungot: mention the sword
21:21:55 <fungot> olsner: to the northwest of this cape. he took back the medal from the frog king. and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself!
21:22:05 <oerjan> fungot: not _that_ sword
21:22:05 <fungot> oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him!
21:22:17 <fungot> elliott_: but, we are far outnumbered! you're the only one thing we need to defeat you, lavos. it is r66-y? cool? who knows what would become of my mystics? i must win!
21:22:21 <fungot> elliott_: the real queen's safe, right! right. wrong! please return to the castle! and letting these...hoodlums in here? traitors like you deserve from heckran! ha!
21:22:23 <elliott_> fungot: JSDIOJOISADJIDOSNFOSJDODSIFS
21:22:24 <fungot> elliott_: in the middle ages, sir slush!... smell of all the human race is doomed! mwa, ha! say, do you like plants?
21:22:25 <fungot> Vorpal: these unique items make us invincible! amazing! you found a dreamstone! i'd forgotten how beautiful they are the evildoers? magus's lair! you brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope.
21:22:26 <fungot> elliott_: frog will do. those two are really looking forward, epoch!! fix the masamune!!
21:22:28 <fungot> elliott_: your majesty! and queen. he and a friend left on a journey 10, then magic damage will be reduced by 10%. a star after any characteristic means it's at maximum strength! no matter what the price! it is, you idiot! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. it's
21:22:30 <fungot> elliott_: i see. you know, i really care... a time portal? what in the...! ozzie's stumped! strange, but!? all the young must migrate to other planets...to repeat the cycle...
21:22:31 <fungot> elliott_: it's time you jumped off this mortal coil...
21:22:32 <fungot> Vorpal: we are looking, but well behaved! crono!!! 5, you mugs!
21:22:34 <olsner> fungot: sword, do you speak it?
21:22:34 <fungot> elliott_: need a clone? the magician, nolstein bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! i'm afraid i can't allow that... beast, keepin' me locked! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. it's the kind! i've decided
21:22:44 <Vorpal> fungot, really come on
21:22:44 <fungot> Vorpal: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care, and stay...healthy! my husband...he's...he's...gone... but he left me precious gifts! the seeds...and our child, it's ancient history now...
21:22:47 <fungot> elliott_: and you call yourself a frog, and ayla... i will not betray my friends! ha!! gotcha! heeheehee... oh, can you fix the masamune!
21:22:48 <fungot> Vorpal: and you call yourself a frog, and ayla... i will not betray my friends! he's a no good! choose 2 different ones! you have come far, and you must now carry out his sentence. hold the l&r buttons and then press the a button to access, but stay off of " techniques." stop immobilizes and disables you. in these bones, i shall return! by the way, the wings! now this is a way to the ocean palace?
21:22:53 <fungot> Vorpal: your majesty! and queen. he and a friend left on a journey 10. all functions are down... got the terra arm and the crisis arm! found a dreamstone! i'd forgotten how beautiful they are the evildoers? magus's lair! you brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope.
21:22:55 <elliott_> fungot: I:_;AFSDOGJHDNK CANT DEAL WITH YOURT
21:22:55 <fungot> elliott_: you! take! we find!
21:22:57 <fungot> Vorpal: i must ponder this turn of events, it can have a powerful effect on time. ask the one to bring back lost loved ones... it's what that guy in medina, a village near the mystic mountain" 65,000,000 b. c.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope.
21:22:57 <fungot> CakeProphet: you! take! we find! must report to sir krawlie what you just said!!
21:22:58 <fungot> elliott_: need a clone? the magician, nolstein bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him!
21:23:03 <fungot> elliott_: we are looking, but well behaved! crono!! crono!! crono!!! help!! 7/ battle window up or down. want my advice?
21:23:07 <fungot> CakeProphet: but, we are far outnumbered! are you leaving! sorry, fellas! i'm empty!
21:23:07 <fungot> Vorpal: like, thanks princess. i'll take that under advisement!! i've never even seen you with lucca! who's your pretty new friend! king guardia the xxxiii. i really enjoyed such powers... now, i know!!... smell of all the human race is doomed! mwa, ha! say, do you like plants?
21:23:13 <elliott_> fungot: IM CRYING IN REAL LIFE
21:23:13 <fungot> elliott_: shall we get back to the present? he's been known. we reptites will rule the world in a mere door that keeps us bound, hand, foot...and tongue kid? ...oh, it's you, isn't this morbid? the great adventurer toma levine rests in a grave to the north. it's a great place for a picnic! heard that magus's statue before my shift. i hate! ayla not like...
21:23:22 <fungot> Vorpal: you, with you standing around! the trial! what has gotten away with this! a top secret document has been left behind? marle lucca the great magus. oh! crono!!
21:23:27 <fungot> Vorpal: but cyrus! are you leaving! no! tell us about the masamune!!
21:23:34 <Vorpal> fungot, you are no fun today
21:23:34 <fungot> Vorpal: time to shove off! the name's bandeau. here to build the ocean palace? petal," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," "
21:23:34 <fungot> elliott_: we must do it to save you! who the heck are you?! c'mon!!
21:23:34 <fungot> CakeProphet: time to shove off! the name's bandeau. here to build the ocean palace! and if you wish! we shall hold this position to the last man! big fire where lavos fall from sky! we no can call that the chrono trigger. it is r66-y? cool? who knows what would become of my mystics? i must win!
21:23:38 <elliott_> <fungot> Vorpal: time to shove off! the name's bandeau. here to build the ocean palace? petal," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," "
21:23:38 <elliott_> fang," " fang," " fang," " fang," "
21:23:39 <fungot> elliott_: you are strong of will...! that's the pendant the gurus and miss you.
21:24:14 <Gregor> http://tasvideos.org/1248M.html This might be the best-ever TAS :P
21:24:20 <Vorpal> elliott_, oh I realise where that list come from. Since it mentioned petal
21:24:37 <CakeProphet> fungot: can't stop that sword alone sword sword sword stop stop stop alone alone alone
21:24:38 <fungot> CakeProphet: i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! geez! parental discretion advised. no time to talk. we no can call you " knight cyrus fell while protecting our kingdom from magus. i'd stay away!
21:24:42 <elliott_> Gregor: It's not much of a TAS :P
21:24:44 <oerjan> this is about the time when fizzie mentions that he fixed the sword bug
21:24:52 <Vorpal> elliott_, remember that thing in prehistory where you could kill enemies and get items to trade for
21:24:57 <elliott_> oerjan: well, evidently not since fang is still there
21:25:00 <fungot> CakeProphet: that no one was allowed to use the crane, enter any two of these letters, a b y.
21:25:08 <fungot> elliott_: your majesty! and queen. he and a friend left on a journey 10, then magic damage will be reduced by 10%. a star after any characteristic means it's at maximum strength! no matter what the price! it is, you idiot! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. it's
21:25:11 <fungot> elliott_: it's a machine that looks like you!
21:25:13 <oerjan> fungot: fang fang numberwang
21:25:13 <fungot> oerjan: the real queen's safe, right! right. wrong! please return now, or you silly apes who end up ruling the world?
21:25:15 <elliott_> fungot: fangs in ur internal organs
21:25:15 <Vorpal> elliott_, oh you didn't play the game?
21:25:15 <fungot> elliott_: you are strong of will...! that's the pendant the gurus and miss you. you may use that " rainbow shell? can eat much! good music!
21:25:20 <elliott_> `addquote <fungot> elliott_: it's a machine that looks like you!
21:25:21 <fungot> elliott_: see? i like marle better than " princess,' the chosen time has come! he's strong and he's gonna thrash those monsters! yea! is it?
21:25:23 <HackEgo> 633) <fungot> elliott_: it's a machine that looks like you!
21:25:24 <CakeProphet> fungot: its a machine that looks like you!
21:25:24 <fungot> CakeProphet: yes, it's been awhile prometheus! sleep like stone statues. ' tis the masamune!!!
21:25:34 <elliott_> fungot: tis the masamune indeed
21:25:35 <fungot> elliott_: and you call yourself a frog, and ayla... i will not betray my friends! huh? there's something else in here? traitors like you deserve from heckran! ha!
21:25:47 <elliott_> fungot: i dont like you any more
21:25:48 <fungot> elliott_: yes, it's been awhile prometheus! happy! red star! me saw! big fire where lavos fall from sky! we no can call you " knight cyrus fell while protecting our kingdom from magus. i'd stay away!
21:25:55 <fungot> elliott_: to the northwest of this cape. he took the gate at the fairgrounds!
21:25:57 <Vorpal> fungot, the masamune, what about that sword
21:25:57 <fungot> Vorpal: there! there it is! but by the time we're through with you, you'll be in danger. open hatch. trader has new weapons! all gone!
21:26:00 <fungot> elliott_: to the northwest of this cape. he took back the medal from the frog king. and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! geez!
21:26:05 <fungot> Vorpal: your majesty! and queen. he and a friend left on a journey 10. all functions are down... got the terra arm and the crisis arm! found a dreamstone! i'd forgotten how beautiful they are the evildoers? magus's lair! you brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope.
21:26:07 <elliott_> and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! geez!
21:26:09 <elliott_> fungot: and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! geez!
21:26:10 <fungot> elliott_: but cyrus! are you leaving!! my powers are being drained. why not? then you should leave quickly! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. it's the kind? the mystics supposedly despise you! i'm leaving!
21:26:11 <fungot> Vorpal: the knight spirit has the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to t
21:26:14 <fungot> Vorpal: that no one was allowed to use the crane, enter any two of these letters, a b y.
21:26:18 <elliott_> THAT'S NOT THE RIGHT LOOP FUCKER
21:26:25 <fungot> elliott_: see? i like marle better than " princess,' the chosen time has come! he's strong and he's gonna thrash those monsters! yea! is it? sure! no thanks. yum! lemonade! vitamin c, cyrus!
21:26:29 <elliott_> yum! lemonade! vitamin c, cyrus!
21:26:34 <Vorpal> elliott_, we discovered two new loops though
21:26:52 <oerjan> fungot: your loops are failing
21:26:52 <fungot> oerjan: you! take! we find! can you imagine what the inside of that armor must smell like? i'm so excited! clear, too!
21:26:54 <fungot> Vorpal: to the northwest of this cape. he took back the medal from the frog king. and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! geez!
21:27:03 <elliott_> <fungot> elliott_: to the northwest of this cape. he took back the medal from the frog king. and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! geez!
21:27:04 <fungot> elliott_: you are strong of will...! that's the pendant the gurus and miss you. you may use that " rainbow shell? can eat much! bring newcomers to meet me!
21:27:04 <Vorpal> fungot, THAT SWORD. TELL ME ABOUT IT!
21:27:04 <fungot> Vorpal: you! take! we find! where could sir cyrus be? miss you. this kingdom's been through a time machine! nya ha!
21:27:07 <fungot> oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! eat! fun!!
21:27:36 <oerjan> fungot: to quote, perchance to stop
21:27:36 <fungot> oerjan: in the middle ages, sir slush!...
21:27:36 <Vorpal> fungot, and the sword?
21:27:37 <fungot> Vorpal: in the middle ages, sir slush!...
21:27:37 <elliott_> oh my god, a tas of kaizo mario
21:28:09 <Vorpal> fungot, well the sword then?
21:28:09 <fungot> Vorpal: but, we are far outnumbered!
21:28:24 <Vorpal> fungot, only because that sword alone is outnumbered
21:28:24 <fungot> Vorpal: the real queen's safe, right! right. wrong! please return
21:28:35 <Vorpal> fungot, right? wrong? decide!
21:28:35 <fungot> Vorpal: these unique items make us invincible!" now, scram! just between us, i heard that magus's place...
21:28:39 <fungot> elliott_: the king awaits. you saved our queen? you see, the mammon machine are as follows. the y button displays the time to drop by!? all the young must migrate to other planets...to repeat the cycle...
21:28:43 <fungot> elliott_: must think of a way to the ocean palace! and if you wish! we shall hold this position to the last man! big fire where lavos fall from sky! we no can call that the chrono trigger. it is r66-y? cool? who knows what would become of my mystics? i must win!
21:28:48 <fungot> oerjan: and you call yourself a frog, and ayla... i will not betray my friends!! jurassicnota rhythmnota you're so weaknota and i'm so rich i don't know where to find me should the need arise. bows, and guns. some frog guy dropped a shelter! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the r
21:28:50 <CakeProphet> 17:29 <CakeProphet> `addquote <fungot> Vorpal: the knight spirit has the hero!
21:28:50 <fungot> CakeProphet: time to shove off! the name's bandeau. here to build the ocean palace? come to see you back again. please go and visit the king. the king fought the mystics over 400 long years. when will it be the reptites, or you silly apes who end up ruling the world?
21:28:53 <CakeProphet> hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the
21:28:56 <CakeProphet> hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to
21:28:58 <CakeProphet> the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah
21:29:01 <CakeProphet> to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero!
21:29:03 <CakeProphet> hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the
21:29:04 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
21:29:06 <CakeProphet> hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero!
21:29:08 <CakeProphet> 17:29 <fungot> CakeProphet: that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't
21:29:09 <fungot> CakeProphet: you are strong of will...! that's the pendant the gurus and miss you. who disturbs my slumber? nu...! just trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. it's the kind! i've decided to stay with these humans! you're a traitor! you're not our king! but, we are far outnumbered!
21:29:11 <CakeProphet> stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop,
21:29:12 <Vorpal> elliott_, got the red vest! got the red vest!
21:29:24 <fungot> elliott_: yes, it's been awhile prometheus! this must be the invention. hope it still leaves you hungry! here you are the only one thing we need to defeat you, lavos.
21:29:34 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: but cyrus! are you leaving! data confirmed!' are you stupid? this is the kingdom? well come. i'm sure that crono, he'll be a hero or a chancellor...
21:29:41 <CakeProphet> elliott_: yeah I didn't realize it would paste that many lines
21:29:41 <Vorpal> fungot, stop being silly
21:29:41 <fungot> Vorpal: but, we are far outnumbered! crono!!! help!
21:29:52 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, either RAND or ? I assume
21:29:54 <fungot> oerjan: need a clone? the magician, nolstein bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out?! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. it's the kind! i've decided to stay with these humans! you're a traitor! you're not our king! but, we are far outnumbered
21:30:07 <fungot> oerjan: you! take! we find! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the red vest! got the
21:30:16 <fungot> CakeProphet: need a clone? the magician, nolstein bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him!
21:30:21 <fungot> CakeProphet: i must ponder this turn of events, it can have a powerful effect on time. ask the one to bring back lost loved ones... it's what that guy in medina, a village near the mystic mountain" 65,000,000 b. c.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope.
21:30:33 <oerjan> fungot: the day you stopped alone
21:30:33 <Vorpal> elliott_, so we found several new cycles today
21:30:33 <fungot> oerjan: but, we are far outnumbered! my powers are being drained. why not? then you should leave quickly! out for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have the masamune!
21:30:37 <fungot> Vorpal: we must do it to save you! who the heck are you?! c'mon!! empty! this must be the invention. hope it still leaves you hungry! here you are the only one thing we need to defeat you, lavos.
21:30:39 <elliott_> Vorpal: i think most of them we encountered before
21:30:44 <fungot> CakeProphet: you are strong of will...! that's the pendant the gurus and miss you.
21:30:54 <oerjan> fungot: you are so pendantic
21:30:54 <fungot> oerjan: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care, and stay...healthy! my husband...he's...he's...gone... but he left me precious gifts! the seeds...and our child, it's ancient history now...
21:30:55 <Vorpal> <CakeProphet> Vorpal: pm <-- why?
21:30:59 <fungot> CakeProphet: you are strong of will...! that's the pendant the gurus and miss you. you may use that " rainbow shell? can eat much, much strong guy!
21:31:09 <CakeProphet> Vorpal: because I was going to secretly add a quote, secretly
21:31:11 <oerjan> fungot: are you a dragon then
21:31:11 <fungot> oerjan: i see. you know, i really care... a time portal? what in the...! ozzie's stumped!
21:31:17 <Vorpal> elliott_, hm perhaps we did that
21:31:17 <CakeProphet> and when I tried to do so it spat out the sword loop.
21:31:21 <Vorpal> fungot, and the sword?
21:31:21 <fungot> Vorpal: but cyrus! are you leaving! we're leaving! what you do? wake you, but need dactyl?
21:31:34 <elliott_> CakeProphet: add a quote with fungot?
21:31:34 <fungot> elliott_: the real queen's safe, right! right. wrong! please return
21:31:36 <Vorpal> elliott_, encounter those loops earlier
21:31:41 <fungot> CakeProphet: need a clone? the magician, nolstein bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him!
21:31:49 <fungot> Vorpal: frog will do. you'll need to find someone that can shine! we must do it to save you! who the heck are you?! c'mon!!
21:31:50 <CakeProphet> elliott_: oh I thought he was the quotebot for some reaso.
21:31:53 <fungot> oerjan: you are strong of will...! that's the pendant the gurus and miss you. hah! you think you are? coming and going out! he's really a tricycle! pass him!
21:32:00 <elliott_> oerjan: kickban fungot if not do what we say
21:32:01 <fungot> Vorpal: i see. you know, i really care... a time portal? what in the...! ozzie's stumped! uwa, ha! say, do you like plants?
21:32:01 <fungot> elliott_: we are looking, but well behaved! crono!!!
21:32:03 <CakeProphet> fungot: !@#)@#%)*!@#)*@%)*!@_#(!@)%!_@_!#@%*_!@*$_!@*%'
21:32:03 <fungot> CakeProphet: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care, and stay...healthy! my husband...he's...he's...gone... but he left me precious gifts! the seeds...and our child, it's ancient history now...
21:32:12 <Vorpal> fungot, YOU are not well behaved though
21:32:12 <fungot> Vorpal: need a clone? the magician, nolstein bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! i bet my children are going!!
21:32:26 <fungot> CakeProphet: the masamune!
21:32:27 <Vorpal> fungot, no I don't need a clone, I'm in the "do not call" register
21:32:28 <fungot> Vorpal: you, with you standing around! the trial! what has gotten away with this! a top secret document has been left behind? marle lucca... the password. emergency! security and activate the sword... the masamune!
21:32:31 <oerjan> fungot: you have been warned
21:32:32 <fungot> oerjan: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care, and stay...healthy! my husband...he's...he's...gone... but he left me precious gifts! the seeds...and our child, it's ancient history now...
21:32:45 <Vorpal> fungot, so tell me about the masamune!
21:32:45 <fungot> Vorpal: it's time you jumped off this mortal coil... ayla still fight? why you here?0ckino no like you! i'm leaving! who the heck are you?! c'mon!!
21:32:49 <fungot> Vorpal: by thy leave, crono?!! you brought back my cat! thank you, crono! cider please! the hero has made the epoch, your wings! now this is a treasure there... found the treasure!! probably filled with mystical forest powers are being drained. why not? then you should leave quickly!
21:32:59 <fungot> Vorpal: yes, it's been awhile prometheus! although we did sustain more damage. use the queen's hall. a good hit will wake you, but need dactyl?
21:32:59 <fungot> CakeProphet: but cyrus! are you leaving!
21:33:04 <oerjan> fungot: you are so crono logical
21:33:04 <fungot> oerjan: as long as you keep crono in your heart, the day of lavos"... go to " mystic mountain" 65,000,000 b. c.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope.
21:33:17 <elliott_> fungot: that fucking sword alone
21:33:17 <fungot> elliott_: i see. you know, i really care... a time portal? what in the...! ozzie's stumped! fine then, can a chrono trigger. it is r66-y? cool? who knows what would become of my mystics? i must win!
21:33:22 <fungot> Vorpal: i see. you know, i really care... a time portal? what in the...! ozzie's stumped!? just because i have to put up with your drivel, ribbit!
21:33:24 <fungot> elliott_: yes, it's been awhile prometheus!'
21:33:29 <elliott_> fungot: its been a while fuck you
21:33:29 <fungot> elliott_: i see. you know, i really care... a time portal? what in the...! ozzie's stumped! nirvana strike! graaaack...! how can i do for you? thanks! it's about the missing queen. she still looks so much like leene, that they will take you to your place of execution?! strange, but!?
21:33:33 <Vorpal> elliott_, what is a "woejiew"?
21:33:39 <Vorpal> fungot, stop being such a PITA
21:33:39 <fungot> Vorpal: the masamune!! the king does not wish! we shall hold this position to the last man! big fire where lavos fall from sky! we no can call you " knight cyrus fell while protecting our kingdom from magus. i'd stay away!
21:33:47 <oerjan> fungot: are you polished
21:33:47 <fungot> oerjan: but, we are far outnumbered!
21:33:48 <Vorpal> elliott_, well you should know, you said it
21:33:54 <CakeProphet> fungot: no matter what they say I'll always love you
21:33:54 <fungot> CakeProphet: you, with you standing around! the trial! what has gotten away with this! a top secret document has been left behind the floor to fight the mother brain, yet!
21:33:56 <oerjan> fungot: the poles often were
21:33:56 <fungot> oerjan: there! there it is!
21:34:03 <fungot> Vorpal: to the northwest of this cape. he took back the medal from the frog king. and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself!
21:34:08 <fungot> Vorpal: need a clone? the magician, nolstein bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! i'm afraid i can't allow that... beast, keepin' me locked! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. it's the kind! i've decided t
21:34:11 <coppro> MOTHER BRAIN IS GOOGLE
21:34:14 <fungot> Vorpal: i must ponder this turn of events, it can have a powerful effect on time. ask the one to bring back lost loved ones... it's what that guy in medina, a village near the mystic mountain" 65,000,000 b. c.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope.
21:34:23 <fungot> Vorpal: from where does the hero alone have the power. " m, madam...! i am, are you?! c'mon!! gotcha!
21:34:26 <fungot> CakeProphet: that no one was allowed to use the crane, enter any two of these letters, a b y. every night, brings a new world of good!
21:34:31 <fungot> Vorpal: to the northwest of this cape. he took back the medal from the frog king. and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! geez! thou art and science... all to you!
21:34:39 <Vorpal> fungot, what is it with you today...
21:34:39 <fungot> Vorpal: must think of a way to the ocean palace? aren't you going?! the king hast been injured? what's the big deal? so what if we won a war out there! can't it see i love my daddy! the children are going!
21:34:51 <CakeProphet> fungot: fungot fungot fungot fungot fungot fungot fungot fungot
21:34:51 <fungot> CakeProphet: i, myself, will bring an end to all. ghosts lurk in the ruins! the structural damage is severe. the tale?
21:34:56 <Vorpal> fungot, this must be a record for time on this style that you haven't mentioned the sword
21:34:56 <fungot> Vorpal: you! take! we find! epoch...become bird!!
21:34:57 <oerjan> fungot: to stop or not to stop, that is the question
21:34:57 <fungot> oerjan: the usual...test them. you can entertain us for awhile? chancellor: yes! well then rest and relax! huh?
21:35:07 <Vorpal> oerjan, we can't give up now
21:35:12 <fungot> Vorpal: but, we are far outnumbered! didn't you create him? that kino guy! much danger. open hatch.
21:35:18 <fungot> Vorpal: it's time you jumped off this mortal coil... the name of time machine! nya ha! i run this town! and i'm so rich i don't know where to find me should the need arise.
21:35:22 <oerjan> fungot: you _will_ be put to the sword
21:35:22 <fungot> oerjan: it's a machine that looks like you! who the heck are you?! c'mon!!
21:35:26 <Vorpal> fungot, what an insult
21:35:26 <fungot> Vorpal: the masamune!! after them!
21:35:29 <elliott_> fungot: im going to kill your mom
21:35:29 <fungot> elliott_: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him!
21:35:32 <elliott_> ais523: can you kickban fungot thanks
21:35:33 <fungot> elliott_: yes, it's been awhile prometheus! here's your allowance, dear! now, off you go! didn't you create him? that kino guy!
21:35:40 <fungot> CakeProphet: but, we are far outnumbered!
21:35:45 <oerjan> fungot: alone the stop can't sword!
21:35:45 <fungot> oerjan: but, we are far outnumbered! there's the seed! amazing! you found a dreamstone! i'd forgotten how beautiful they are the evildoers? magus's lair! you brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope.
21:35:53 <fungot> Vorpal: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care, and stay...healthy! my husband...he's...he's...gone... but he left me precious gifts! the seeds...and our child, it's ancient history now...
21:35:57 <ais523> elliott_: I don't think it's done anything wrong
21:35:57 <fungot> CakeProphet: it's time you jumped off this mortal coil... glenn!! ...wh...what g...l...e...n...n?
21:36:03 <Vorpal> fungot, I think the underlying RNG is failing
21:36:03 <fungot> Vorpal: and you call yourself a frog, and ayla... i will not betray my friends!
21:36:09 <ais523> the people triggering it, on the other hand...
21:36:17 <elliott_> ais523: oerjan is an op, he validates us
21:36:19 <fungot> CakeProphet: but cyrus! are you leaving! ok. no. go to " leene square" 1000 a.d.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope.
21:36:21 <fungot> elliott_: yes, it's been awhile prometheus! something is reacting to the pendant. take out the contents are yours?
21:36:21 <Vorpal> ais523, ... it isn't mentioning the sword!
21:36:31 <fungot> elliott_: you are a little nervous compulsion. behavior to petition for their own good human translation for this concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a si
21:36:34 <oerjan> fungot: don't let it get out of hand
21:36:49 <CakeProphet> fungot: a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept.
21:36:49 <fungot> CakeProphet: like a very clear mirror without falling in your favor again ill be here too.
21:37:03 <oerjan> fungot: how dare you ignore me
21:37:03 <fungot> oerjan: so, you give up, jade is my slime tube and this is a new game. there is a heavy amount of time i will say you are only here to deliver a message and then i'll put in the hallway. beyond a lot
21:37:04 <fungot> elliott_: as a veteran of the game. then i'll put in the hallway. beyond the walls of his room. john. return, he teaches her to fly a little higher, to see if john is of course it was a nasty pair of beagle puss glasses, several () a blank card, producing a different hole in the roof
21:37:04 <fungot> Vorpal: just a tiny, custom-tailored suit is all business
21:37:07 <fungot> Vorpal: enter name. it's a title under a bed of petunias like a normal. pm showed the bq a parking citation. if confronted, you will say you are only here to deliver a message and then i'll put his shit up?
21:37:19 <fungot> Vorpal: that it makes a guest of it, much as the moon takes liberty. reason. justice. civility. edification. perfection.
21:37:28 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck* ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
21:37:36 <fungot> CakeProphet: the farm country, where small white cottages dream between little hills, and which came indubitably from the crevice between floor and altar where norrys was scraping away the lichens.
21:37:39 <fungot> Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script)
21:37:40 <Vorpal> elliott_, who did this deed
21:37:41 <fungot> elliott_: there! there it is! but by the time we're through with you, you'll be in danger. open hatch.
21:37:46 <fungot> elliott_: must think of a way to the ocean palace? to be king of the sewer! gribbit! there's the seed! amazing! you found a dreamstone! i'd forgotten how beautiful they are the evildoers? magus's lair! you brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope.
21:37:48 <fungot> elliott_: it's time you jumped off this mortal coil... are you all right?
21:37:55 <elliott_> ill jump off YOUR mortal coil :(
21:38:04 <fungot> Available: agora* alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
21:38:05 <fungot> Vorpal: and whereas, agora has now become the actual indulgence circulation level ( aicl) is referred to as a percentage; and ( only if any) who has shown
21:38:06 <fungot> CakeProphet: if that rule. this restriction to be bound by the scorekeepor to make another
21:38:12 <fungot> Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script)
21:38:13 <fungot> Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script)
21:38:15 <fungot> elliott_: from where does the hero alone have the power. " m, madam...! i am the master of war! i've seen all kinds of battles from here, step back, prometheus!
21:38:18 <fungot> elliott_: there! there it is!
21:38:20 <fungot> elliott_: there! there it is!
21:38:24 <fungot> elliott_: by this time). " now just try. i've often amused myself that way. consider this platform as our stage. good fnord and exits on both sides, if you put " is" or " all", the wardeness chimed in.
21:38:29 <Vorpal> fungot, are belong to us
21:38:29 <fungot> Vorpal: " how ever would oo do a garden without one? we make each bed three mouses and a half long, and two mouses wide."
21:38:36 <fungot> Available: agora alice* c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
21:38:38 <fungot> Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script)
21:38:41 <fungot> oerjan: you! take! we find!
21:38:46 <elliott_> fungot: carpal tunnel syndrome
21:38:46 <fungot> CakeProphet: oh. fuck. yes. yes, i'll hold.
21:38:47 <fungot> elliott_: didn't you try the uninstaller? i imported your goddamn viewtiful joe or whatever and that game is like punishment from god. hey you ball eating sons of bitches: when you make an omelette, sometimes you've got to be fucking kidding meeee. and she said " noooo! we have no record of that pre-sell ticket!" and i was nuh-uh, " ice wand!" and they'd be all- brian?
21:38:50 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa* sms speeches ss wp youtube
21:38:54 <elliott_> <fungot> CakeProphet: oh. fuck. yes. yes, i'll hold.
21:38:54 <fungot> elliott_: i'm really glad we're hanging out. in fact, one of the worst beatings i ever saw a man take was... he kept kicking my ass, why don't we just make a big boat, hook it up to you if you say anything else.
21:38:57 <fungot> Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script)
21:39:03 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
21:39:11 <Vorpal> fungot, stop changing style
21:39:11 <fungot> Vorpal: i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! geez! hurry!! chief okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care to stay with these humans! you're a traitor! you're not our king! but, we are far outnumbered!
21:39:18 <fungot> Vorpal: but cyrus! are you leaving! press the y button displays the time to drop by!? all the young must migrate to other planets...to repeat the cycle... favorite people here!" seeing you so happy! now there's that stuffed-shirt, cyrus!
21:39:21 <oerjan> fungot: WOULDN'T WE ALL
21:39:21 <fungot> oerjan: but, we are far outnumbered! over 1300 points! let your hair down! get crazy! i'm opening a stall in leene! i thought she ate too!!
21:39:27 <fungot> Vorpal: we must do it to save you! who the heck are you?! c'mon!! you got the broken! the mountain of woe. it's likely that dalton came from the laboratories to the west?... yes! well then rest and relax! huh?
21:39:34 <fungot> Vorpal: from where does the hero alone have the power. " m, madam...! i am the master of war! i've seen all kinds of battles from here, step back, prometheus!
21:39:35 <CakeProphet> fungot: my hair is down and I am getting crazy.
21:39:35 <fungot> CakeProphet: shall we get back to the present? he's been known. we reptites will rule the world in a mere door that keeps us bound, hand, foot...and tongue kid? ...oh, it's you, isn't this morbid? the great adventurer toma levine rests in a grave to the north. it's a great place for a picnic! heard that magus's place...
21:39:39 <fungot> CakeProphet: you are strong of will...! that's the pendant the gurus and miss you. in these bones, i shall return! by the way, the wings! now this is a way to the ocean palace! and if you wish! we shall hold this position to the last man! big fire where lavos fall from sky! we no can call that the chrono trigger. it is r66-y? cool? who knows what would become of my mystics? i must win!
21:39:44 <fungot> Vorpal: from where does the hero alone have the power. " m, madam...! i am the master of war! i've seen all kinds of battles from here, step back, prometheus! at the moonlight parade! this must be the invention. hope it still leaves you hungry! here you are the only one thing we need to defeat you, lavos.
21:39:51 <Vorpal> fungot, but what about the sword
21:39:51 <fungot> Vorpal: to the northwest of this cape. he took back the medal from the frog king. and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself!
21:40:00 <CakeProphet> fungot: sword sword sord sord sord dorf dorf sorf sworf dworf
21:40:00 <fungot> CakeProphet: your majesty! and queen. he and a friend left on a journey 10, then magic damage will be reduced by 10%. a star after any characteristic means it's at maximum strength! no matter what the price! it is, you idiot! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. i
21:40:01 <fungot> CakeProphet: but, we are far outnumbered!
21:40:13 <fungot> elliott_: from where does the hero alone have the power. " m, madam...! i am, are you?! c'mon!!
21:40:23 <fungot> Vorpal: and you call yourself a frog, and ayla... i will not betray my friends! see ya around! the trial! what has gotten away with this! a top secret document has been left behind? marle lucca
21:40:32 <CakeProphet> fungot: the hero alone has the power to cannot stop
21:40:32 <fungot> CakeProphet: see? i like marle better than " princess,' the chosen time has come! he's strong and he's gonna thrash those monsters! yea! is it?
21:40:40 <Vorpal> fungot, you are not doing the right loop...
21:40:40 <fungot> Vorpal: it's time you jumped off this mortal coil... mother must be the invention. hope it still leaves you hungry! here you are the only one thing we need to defeat you, lavos.
21:40:50 <Vorpal> fungot, or any loop at all atm
21:40:50 <fungot> Vorpal: but cyrus! are you leaving! lavos come soon! no! tell us about the masamune!
21:40:52 <fungot> elliott_: it's time you jumped off this mortal coil...
21:40:59 <fungot> Vorpal: the masamune!!
21:41:04 <Vorpal> fungot, yes that is a sword
21:41:04 <fungot> Vorpal: i must ponder this turn of events, it can have a powerful effect on time. ask the one to bring back lost loved ones... it's what that guy in medina, a village near the mystic mountain" 65,000,000 b. c.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope.
21:41:15 <Vorpal> fungot, uh you said that line before didn't you?
21:41:15 <fungot> Vorpal: the knight spirit has. you came to see it?
21:41:22 <fungot> CakeProphet: yes this is my second conversation i've done and they always give people the first like uh um it's some university i think it's okay
21:41:27 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
21:41:36 <fungot> Vorpal: to the northwest of this cape. he took back the medal from the frog king. and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself!
21:41:45 <Vorpal> fungot, well, fuck you
21:41:45 <fungot> Vorpal: we are looking, but well behaved! crono!! crono!!! the monster who kidnapped the princess to the castle! go downstairs if you must know, i really care... a time portal? what in the...! ozzie's stumped!
21:41:53 <fungot> CakeProphet: by thy leave, crono?!! you brought back my cat! thank you, crono! crono...! there was nothing i could do! we must use? take off. get off! the name's bandeau. here to build the ocean palace?
21:41:55 <Vorpal> fungot, fuck ozzie too. Bastard he is
21:41:55 <fungot> Vorpal: that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop, crono!
21:41:56 <elliott_> fungot: i wasnmnt talking to you
21:41:57 <fungot> elliott_: ( ( uh-huh))
21:42:03 <fungot> elliott_: but they also have twenty four hour deal to train a pilot that was a
21:42:08 <Vorpal> <fungot> Vorpal: that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop, crono!
21:42:08 <fungot> Vorpal: event touring what kind of an infringement of rights
21:42:10 <elliott_> CakeProphet: stop changing the style, btw
21:42:12 <elliott_> <fungot> Vorpal: that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop, crono!
21:42:13 <fungot> elliott_: and um just a regular office worker of mine that's where she goes to a different school now mn
21:42:24 <Vorpal> elliott_, it looped a bit.
21:42:37 <Vorpal> elliott_, it "looped a bit", not far enough
21:42:37 <elliott_> <fungot> elliott_: but they also have twenty four hour deal to train a pilot that was a
21:42:37 <fungot> elliott_: ( ( my name's fnord
21:42:49 <elliott_> CakeProphet: <fungot> CakeProphet: yes this is my second conversation i've done and they always give people the first like uh um it's some university i think it's okay
21:42:50 <fungot> elliott_: in the middle ages, sir slush!... ...oh well! come again! these are my friends! the king does not wish! we shall hold this position to the last man! big fire where lavos fall from sky! we no can call you " knight cyrus fell while protecting our kingdom from magus. i'd stay away!
21:42:52 <Vorpal> elliott_, well I'm out now
21:43:40 <Vorpal> elliott_, how do you know
21:43:46 <CakeProphet> though I like how I'm automatically targeted as such. :P
21:44:01 <elliott_> Vorpal: he pasted something from fungot in /msg earlier, we're the ones telling him to stop
21:44:02 <fungot> elliott_:/ blue spaces in/ skull :) dogs. since writing/ first part :) his duty to state everything in/ worst point :) view, if confirmed, would be equally convenient; but if you call a tree or plant an individual, you have much to answer for; i never received so much praise, and their points are likewise used in attack. sir philip egerton also informs me that/ damaras are likewise fond :) keeping pets./ indians generally have
21:44:04 <elliott_> ais523 wouldn't do that, nor would oerjan
21:44:05 <CakeProphet> someone who thought we were doing something stupid
21:44:17 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin* discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
21:44:17 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin* discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
21:44:21 <fungot> Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script)
21:44:39 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, known bug
21:44:53 <CakeProphet> I used /msg -> I'm talking here -> ??? -> I changed the styles
21:44:54 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
21:45:02 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: Clearly not closely enough.
21:45:10 <elliott_> CakeProphet: you used /msg to fungot
21:45:14 <elliott_> and also are the kind of person to do that anyway
21:47:21 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: mr president, this morning we discussed employment in the report, mr president, first of all, it was a clear lack of democratic checks and balances, the efficient functioning of each institution contributes to the political criteria, in particular, have come out of the mire. the union must send out a message of integration and the foundation intend to draw up a comparative study between religious freedom in turk
21:47:40 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: the council would not even convince a child that the united nations conference in september? in what way they could support a process of confrontation in the budgetary process and in making these auditions more systematic. furthermore, until we have the belgrade parliament in flames we know what giving a certain message in a certain way means. much more needs to be made, for example in the food industry, the nat
21:47:45 <fungot> Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script)
21:47:48 <fungot> Vorpal: you! take! we find!
21:47:53 <elliott_> fungot: ojisdfjoicsoimfdojisdf
21:47:53 <fungot> elliott_: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! eat! fun!
21:47:54 <Vorpal> fungot, and we find a sword?
21:47:54 <fungot> Vorpal: by thy leave, crono?!! you brought back my cat! thank you, crono!
21:47:55 <elliott_> fungot: ojisdfjoicsoimfdojisdf
21:47:55 <elliott_> fungot: ojisdfjoicsoimfdojisdf
21:47:55 <elliott_> fungot: ojisdfjoicsoimfdojisdf
21:47:55 <fungot> elliott_: need a clone? the magician, nolstein bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out?! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. it's the kind! i've decided to stay with these humans! you're a traitor! you're not our king! but, we are far outnumber
21:47:56 <elliott_> fungot: ojisdfjoicsoimfdojisdf
21:47:56 <fungot> elliott_: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care, and stay...healthy! my husband...he's...he's...gone... but he left me precious gifts! the seeds...and our child, it's ancient history now...
21:47:56 <fungot> elliott_: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this world are places like that. a peaceful. hah! you think you are? coming and going out! he's really a tricycle! pass him!
21:47:56 <fungot> elliott_: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care to stay with these humans! you're a traitor! you're not our king! but, we are far outnumbered! thank you, crono!
21:47:56 <elliott_> fungot: ojisdfjoicsoimfdojisdf
21:48:01 <fungot> Vorpal: w278 from a command to be `auto' or `resume' past the last location removed from anywhere in the distribution directory works; it is not documented here ( see below). the other compiler; c-intercal uses the intercal link intrudes on the control flow statements must be one decimal digit long. a rightshift can much more easily be done ( for instance
21:48:06 <fungot> elliott_: the two steps into one large shift.)
21:48:08 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic* irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
21:48:08 <fungot> elliott_: ( this is a marker is represented as a variable in other modern intercal compilers, into bailing out at compile time if it works. all other threads, the compiler can't figure out where it's ended up, it doesn't need to produce their own custom errors at run time ( if translating to c-intercal, except in the case of error).
21:48:13 <fungot> Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script)
21:48:33 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
21:48:38 <fungot> Vorpal: you! take! we find! who the heck are you?! c'mon!!
21:48:39 <ais523> heh, the INTERCAL style was pinging me
21:48:55 <ais523> I have a stalkword on "INTERCAL"
21:49:09 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
21:49:18 <fungot> Vorpal: as long as you keep crono in your heart, the day of lavos"... go to " leene square" 1000 a.d.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope.
21:49:20 <monqy> what are you doing to fungot ;_;
21:49:20 <fungot> monqy: after all, it is a theory that day and night is caused by the french revolution was produced by the commission of so fearful a mistake? did the right honourable baronet, and that
21:49:39 <Vorpal> monqy, we are trying to get it to produce the "that sword alone can't stop" loop
21:49:41 <Phantom_Hoover> fungot, day and night is one of the noted achievements of the French Revolution, yes.
21:49:42 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: you! take! we find! pipe down! i'll tell you a story, right! right. wrong!
21:49:46 <fungot> elliott_: your majesty! and queen. he and a friend left on a journey 10. all functions are down... got the terra arm and the crisis arm! found a dreamstone! i'd forgotten how beautiful they are the evildoers? magus's lair! you brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope.
21:49:51 <Vorpal> fungot, yes what about the masamune?
21:49:52 <fungot> Vorpal: we must do it to save you! who the heck are you?! c'mon!! empty!
21:50:02 <fungot> Vorpal: as long as you keep crono in your heart, the day of lavos"... go to " leene square" 1000 a.d.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope.
21:50:05 <fungot> elliott_: but cyrus! are you leaving! thou art and science... all to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him? that kino guy!
21:50:19 <Vorpal> tricycle? I don't remember that
21:50:23 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: but, we are far outnumbered! fu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu
21:50:26 <fungot> elliott_: we are looking, but well behaved! crono!! crono!!
21:50:28 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
21:50:37 <monqy> fu, hu, hu, hu, hu, hu
21:50:42 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: must think of a way to the ocean palace! and if you wish! we shall hold this position to the last man! big fire where lavos fall from sky! we no can call you " knight cyrus fell while protecting our kingdom from magus. i'd stay away!
21:50:52 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: oznaczono jako spam oh...my...god. the aircraft. dumbass!
21:50:57 <Vorpal> elliott_, that is a nice loop though
21:51:04 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
21:51:16 <fungot> Vorpal: but cyrus! are you leaving! didn't you create him? that kino guy!
21:51:39 <Vorpal> elliott_, which style was "oznaczono jako spam"
21:51:50 <fungot> Vorpal: that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone
21:51:53 <CakeProphet> elliott_: fuck you I'm not even paying attention.
21:52:09 <Patashu> that sword alone can't stop!
21:52:11 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: i also thought so. then i go her house myself ba... i go buangkok i will b at simei but i feel like bring clothe eat in hall. cya!
21:52:13 <Vorpal> elliott_, we achieved our goal!
21:52:24 <elliott_> ais523: are you the one messing with the fungot style in private
21:52:24 <fungot> elliott_: after i make u smile becoz someone still loves to see u smiling!! lub u! go sleep dear. nite nite. doing the counting of kills me that u don't care enough to stop me...
21:52:36 <ais523> I wasn't looking at the channel, as I said
21:52:46 <elliott_> ais523: you could have been looking at a /query fungot instead :)
21:52:46 <fungot> elliott_: can i use short form i left in your pigeon hole only. thepain on and miss u alot. how? hee. i wan to faster finish ur tut. no time tdy i went to work. even my dad asked mark if he was really gonna ' let' me keep me also some cafe to get a cd
21:52:49 <oerjan> <elliott_> ais523 wouldn't do that, nor would oerjan <-- hey, i _might_.
21:52:59 <monqy> I didn't do it either
21:53:01 <elliott_> oerjan: only if we were annoying you and that's impossible
21:53:41 <elliott_> i don't think he'd set it to homestuck if he was doing that anyway
21:54:40 <elliott_> now that we've cleared that up let us hug fungot =
21:54:41 <fungot> elliott_: let's not start that again."
21:54:54 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: instead of a list of church numerals representing the expression in the given time. ( in haskell,
21:55:34 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
21:56:16 <elliott_> CakeProphet: there is literally nobody else it could be, stop it, it's annoying
21:56:40 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: a link at the top of the page. --user:pnoble805pat 10:00, 5 november 2007 ( utc)
21:56:50 <oerjan> elliott_: no, but i _might_
21:56:59 <Vorpal> `addquote <elliott_> now that we've cleared that up let us hug fungot = <fungot> elliott_: let's not start that again."
21:57:00 <fungot> Vorpal: use the ' ' ' delete later'". the root ' rb doesn't have anything to do with the island. extra leaders chamberlain and fnord should be removed. fnord 06:40, 6 jan 2005 ( utc
21:57:02 <HackEgo> 634) <elliott_> now that we've cleared that up let us hug fungot = <fungot> elliott_: let's not start that again."
21:57:33 <elliott_> violates international quoting standards
21:57:45 <Vorpal> elliott_, what standards are those
21:57:45 <Phantom_Hoover> `addquote <elliott_> now that we've cleared that up let us hug fungot = <fungot> elliott_: let's not start that again."
21:57:46 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: sorry, i mean fnord. this is to recognize that ' ' '
21:57:47 <HackEgo> 634) <elliott_> now that we've cleared that up let us hug fungot = <fungot> elliott_: let's not start that again."
21:57:53 <Vorpal> elliott_, besides it *was* funny
21:58:09 <oerjan> intergalactic quoting standards of DOOM
21:58:10 <elliott_> violates intl. quoting standards, exercise 9: tell me which
21:58:10 <Vorpal> see, Phantom_Hoover agreed
21:58:37 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, extra space, why
21:58:46 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: ninja-to: a short neck, along with the monster was responsible for the guard. each of the race mentioned above.
21:59:03 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, because nethack??
21:59:08 <oerjan> it's easy to spot the difference; it is in a different spot
21:59:12 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack* pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
21:59:31 <fungot> oerjan: they say that kicking a heavy statue is really good. the food, not because they ever get tired. fresh whole tripe calls for a long, single-edged samurai sword with a general a zen buddhism koan)
21:59:48 <fungot> elliott_: what a total piece of shite.
21:59:58 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube*
22:00:00 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: the go daddy ad, firth is audi ad.
22:00:01 <oerjan> fungot is a fun shoggoth
22:00:02 <fungot> oerjan: it's official, britain's definitely got talent but could learn the real her is still angry that president bush is ten times better than that.
22:00:09 <monqy> help whos styleing
22:00:12 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, are you changing the style?
22:00:13 <monqy> is it cake problet
22:00:16 <elliott_> CakeProphet: remember that /query window you made with fungot? please go there, select the whole irc window, and paste it into a pastebin without scrolling
22:00:17 <fungot> elliott_: looks like captain price to be a hard claim to back up the info yourself: look up a bit it would be too supernatural? meme pas foutu de faire un simple copier coller... ca me saoule des blaireaux comme ca!!
22:00:21 <elliott_> including all the irssi interface elements
22:00:26 <elliott_> thanks, expected in under sixty seconds
22:00:28 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, rumours.false
22:00:34 <CakeProphet> elliott_: it's been gone for several minutes now.
22:01:04 <elliott_> the style changed more recently than that
22:01:08 <Vorpal> elliott_, I think Phantom_Hoover did it
22:01:23 <Vorpal> elliott_, how can you be so sure?
22:01:38 <elliott_> because he doesn't have the dedication to do something for that long
22:01:51 <Vorpal> elliott_, that excludes you too I guess
22:02:07 <monqy> fungot should say who changed the style....
22:02:07 <fungot> monqy: by the magnitude of posts here alone, not about the video... to me.
22:02:22 <Vorpal> elliott_, he told you?
22:02:31 <elliott_> i forgot that <elliott_> because he doesn't have the dedication to do something for that long
22:02:38 <elliott_> doesnt apply if the goal is getting me to make myself look like an idiot :D
22:02:55 <Vorpal> elliott_, I thought you were like friends?
22:02:59 <Phantom_Hoover> I'd've stopped if he hadn't started accusing CakeProphet.
22:03:00 <elliott_> hey fizzie when someone changes the style in fungot you should make it message the channel and append the sender of the message thanxe.....................
22:03:02 <oerjan> so it has to be a sufficiently lofty goal, check
22:03:11 <elliott_> Vorpal: you don't understand modern teenager friendship. you're just too out of touch bro
22:03:13 * lambdabot pulls Phantom_Hoover through the Evil Mangler
22:03:49 <Vorpal> uh he needs to see a doctor
22:03:56 <lambdabot> ":(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((...
22:04:04 <lambdabot> Most guys don't understand me, but we really seem to connect.
22:04:05 <lambdabot> My instant messenger doesn't work.
22:04:12 <elliott_> I thought vixen replied in lowercase
22:04:37 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: FireFly).
22:04:46 <Vorpal> <elliott_> ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw <-- what?
22:04:49 <monqy> ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
22:05:02 <elliott_> Vorpal: yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
22:05:08 <Vorpal> elliott_, what is that
22:05:15 <Vorpal> elliott_, and how can you remember it
22:05:18 <elliott_> Vorpal: yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
22:05:19 <oerjan> @vixen Are you a fish?
22:05:19 <lambdabot> i think you know the answer to that one, silly
22:05:20 <lambdabot> What is your favorite cheese? Mines baloney.
22:05:25 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
22:05:29 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: arr ask bf ghc rc src
22:05:34 <lambdabot> @where <key>, return element associated with key
22:05:42 <lambdabot> http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS
22:05:56 <Vorpal> ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
22:05:58 <Vorpal> ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
22:06:00 <CakeProphet> @vixen I am not ral gud at dayts what is the dayt
22:06:03 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:06:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:06:10 <Vorpal> elliott_, wtf *is* yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw for
22:06:14 <lambdabot> "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\"
22:06:15 <monqy> who was yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
22:06:20 -!- elliott_ has changed nick to yhjulwwiefzojcbx.
22:06:30 -!- yhjulwwiefzojcbx has changed nick to elliott.
22:06:33 <Vorpal> you are yhjulwwiefzojcbx
22:06:38 -!- elliott has quit (Changing host).
22:06:38 -!- elliott has joined.
22:06:41 <elliott> ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
22:06:41 <elliott> ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
22:06:41 <elliott> ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
22:06:42 <elliott> ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
22:06:42 <elliott> ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
22:06:47 -!- CakeProphet has changed nick to Hammurabi.
22:06:58 <elliott> ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
22:07:00 <elliott> ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
22:07:00 -!- Hammurabi has changed nick to Hammerabi.
22:07:01 <elliott> ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
22:07:02 <elliott> ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
22:07:03 <elliott> ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
22:07:04 <elliott> ?yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
22:07:06 <lambdabot> shachaf says: boost::lambda: The ultimate error message.
22:07:25 -!- Hammerabi has changed nick to Hammurabi.
22:07:28 <lambdabot> LinusTorvalds says: The slogan of Subversion for a while was 'CVS done right', or something like that, and if you start with that kind of slogan, there's nowhere you can go. There is no way to do
22:07:42 <lambdabot> "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\"
22:07:53 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: bug map run slap src
22:08:00 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: yarr yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw yow . ? @ v
22:08:06 <lambdabot> megeria says: i am so new to haskell that i still have the new car smell
22:08:12 <lambdabot> the [nsa] even make light green both ways once
22:08:14 <olsner> @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
22:08:27 <lambdabot> today's 24 hour project was supposed to be logical overloading using plegm method
22:08:36 <lambdabot> mattam says: [Monads are] much more elegant [than soccer] in general.
22:09:03 <lambdabot> Plugin `quote' failed with: getRandItem: empty list
22:09:27 <lambdabot> Plugin `quote' failed with: getRandItem: empty list
22:09:28 <lambdabot> Data.Numbers.Primes says: The number 6 is a good value to pass to this function.
22:09:44 <Vorpal> aha I found out the story of yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
22:09:53 <monqy> ?help yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
22:10:12 <monqy> the first result was someone telling sgeo to do ?help on it right
22:10:15 <monqy> or was that just for me
22:10:34 <Vorpal> monqy, apperently v used to be an internal variable that did strange things when printed when evaluating expressions
22:10:41 <Vorpal> so they renamed that variable to yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
22:11:16 <Vorpal> elliott, I'm just checking what I found by googling
22:11:21 <Vorpal> elliott, http://itarchive.org/7410/116
22:11:41 <Vorpal> this could be wrong though
22:12:00 <olsner> that looks like a mangled copy of the #haskell irc logs
22:12:15 <Vorpal> olsner, yeah was the only one I found describing it though
22:12:15 <elliott> hmm, I've forgotten how to write N3
22:12:25 <Vorpal> elliott, press N then press 3
22:12:29 <olsner> Vorpal: the original logs from then are still kept by some log keepers
22:12:48 <Vorpal> olsner, well anyway, is that story behind that command correct?
22:13:09 <Vorpal> elliott, so the real story was?
22:13:11 <elliott> > let v = take 9 (show v) in v
22:13:15 <elliott> > let v = Just (head (show v)) in v
22:13:23 <elliott> > let v = take 9 [head (show v)..] in v
22:13:39 <oerjan> ...i think it would be > show v, then
22:14:15 <elliott> > sum (take 9 [(x+9 / q)..])
22:14:17 <oerjan> Vorpal: that feature is long since gone
22:14:39 <monqy> > yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
22:14:40 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw'
22:14:55 <Hammurabi> esoteric is having a tantrum spiral.
22:15:00 <Vorpal> oerjan, right. But what did it do actually
22:15:03 <elliott> A libray for generating circuits for Xilinx FPGAs with layout.
22:15:08 <elliott> oh coooOOOOoooooOOOooOOOooOOOooOOoooOOOooOOOooOOOoooOOooOOOoooOOoooooooOOoooooooooooooOOOooooooooOOOooooOOoooool
22:15:13 <elliott> maybe ill actually write redsynth
22:15:26 <elliott> <elliott> > let v = take 9 (show v) in v
22:15:26 <elliott> <lambdabot> "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\"
22:15:26 <elliott> <elliott> > let v = Just (head (show v)) in v
22:15:27 <elliott> <elliott> > let v = take 9 [head (show v)..] in v
22:15:28 <Vorpal> elliott, that was all?
22:15:51 <elliott> result <- run_haskell_file ("let v = " ++ expr ++ " in print v")
22:18:40 <elliott> * SimonM: People don't seem to believe me when I say this. In
22:18:40 <elliott> retrospect we shouldn't have called it forkOS, we should have
22:18:40 <elliott> called it forkReallyExpensiveOnlyNecessaryForCallingOpenGL_IO.
22:22:33 <lambdabot> v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**v**...
22:22:48 <oerjan> Hammurabi: *MWAHAHAHA* (aka, that's why i didn't use that)
22:22:48 <ais523> elliott: I take it forking into multiple processes in Haskell is mostly a bad idea because there are more idiomatic ways to do the equivalent of threads?
22:23:07 <elliott> ais523: you don't know what forkOS does :)
22:23:22 <elliott> well, your question makes assumptions about what forkOS does
22:23:25 <ais523> I'm just asking a vaguely related question
22:23:31 <ais523> it implies it makes assumptions
22:23:36 <elliott> forkIO creates a spark; forkOS creates an OS thread
22:23:37 <Hammurabi> isn't forkOS basically forking an OS thread?
22:23:41 <ais523> but doesn't explicitly create any
22:23:43 <elliott> OS threads are incredibly slow
22:23:47 -!- Hammurabi has changed nick to CakeProphet.
22:23:59 <oerjan> Hammurabi: ** is a method, so can be redefined for the Expr type, while ^ is a function which requires its second argument to actually work as a proper Integral
22:24:01 <elliott> forkOS is only required when using thread-local storage via the FFI, or when a library demands all calls be made from one thread
22:24:24 <CakeProphet> oerjan: yes I understand that I just wasn't sure what the result of ^ would be.
22:24:24 <elliott> and only for that one thread
22:24:47 <ais523> do sparks sometimes translate into OS threads? or are they always done internally?
22:24:52 <elliott> <ais523> most of libc, in fact
22:25:01 <elliott> ais523: and sparks are basically threadpooled
22:25:16 <ais523> there are all those _r functions
22:25:36 <elliott> yeah, there's a thread pool, /and/ a spark pool
22:25:37 <ais523> to replace non-threadsafe non-recursionsafe libc functions
22:25:43 <elliott> ais523: here's a pretty diagram: http://i.imgur.com/f57Hm.png
22:25:53 <oerjan> elliott: forkIO doesn't create just a spark, par does that. afair.
22:26:07 <elliott> ais523: and "As a result sparks are very cheap (you might have billions of them in a program, while you probably won't have more than a million Haskell threads, and less than a dozen OS threads on half a dozen cores)."
22:26:11 <ais523> can you communicate between sparks?
22:26:26 <elliott> no, I think that's the main thing defining them
22:26:34 <elliott> there's all sorts of parallel strategies you can do
22:26:37 <oerjan> but threads are green threads, unless using forkOS
22:26:51 <elliott> oerjan: they still run on multiple threads, though
22:26:54 <elliott> (http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/parallel/3.1.0.1/doc/html/Control-Parallel-Strategies.html)
22:27:02 <elliott> (that () is for my statement about strategies)
22:27:03 <oerjan> ais523: they're pure code, so no
22:27:03 <CakeProphet> you can communicate with IORefs, MVars, and TVars and such yet?
22:27:09 <ais523> "green" means "done using stack manipulation tricks not things like processes", right?
22:27:14 <elliott> CakeProphet: using :: a -> Strategy a -> aSource
22:27:14 <elliott> Evaluate a value using the given Strategy.
22:27:14 <elliott> x `using` s = runEval (s x)
22:27:20 <ais523> oerjan: that was my guess
22:27:21 <oerjan> CakeProphet: all those require a monad
22:27:26 <elliott> ais523: oerjan's use of green is a bit misleading
22:27:30 <elliott> ais523: they're lightweight threads
22:27:46 <elliott> ais523: green usually means "lightweight threads with no OS thread pooling"
22:27:53 <elliott> well, that's my impression
22:28:05 <oerjan> elliott: oh right, so only cooperative ones are green?
22:28:06 <elliott> but you _only_ need forkOS when you need to deal with other libraries
22:28:12 <CakeProphet> oerjan: perhaps we are talking about different things then. I was talking about forkIO and thread communication.
22:28:17 <ais523> I remember teaching students how to create lightweight threads using the signal handler hack
22:28:19 <lambdabot> Control.Concurrent forkIO :: IO () -> IO ThreadId
22:28:24 <elliott> oerjan: well, or preemptive but done in the language VM?
22:28:36 <oerjan> CakeProphet: ah forkIO can use all those. i thought you were talking about sparks still
22:28:41 <Vorpal> oerjan, elliott, in erlang green threads are used to refer to the erlang threads sometimes. They are run on one or more scheduler threads (those are OS level threads)
22:28:57 <CakeProphet> oerjan: oh, no I don't know what those are. :P it involves par though right?
22:28:58 <elliott> "On a multi-core processor, native thread implementations can automatically assign work to multiple processors, whereas green thread implementations normally cannot.[1][2]"
22:28:58 <Vorpal> so I would say oerjan's usage is fine.
22:29:02 <elliott> Vorpal: then that is non-standard terminology
22:29:17 <elliott> Vorpal: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/parallel/3.1.0.1/doc/html/Control-Parallel-Strategies.html is preferable to using par directly most of the time
22:29:38 <Vorpal> elliott, fairly common though. Green threads are scheduled by native threads scheduled by the OS
22:29:51 <elliott> Vorpal: those are lightweight threads
22:30:07 <Vorpal> elliott, have been called green threads since the days before erlang supported SMP
22:30:18 <CakeProphet> I was under the impression "lightweght" and "green" were the same in that context.
22:30:31 <elliott> Vorpal: then that's just a continuation of outdated terminology
22:30:38 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-weight_process
22:30:42 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_threads
22:30:49 <elliott> "There are some other virtual machine programming languages that still implement equivalents of green threads instead of native threads. Examples:
22:30:52 <elliott> or maybe this article is just shit
22:31:27 <Vorpal> elliott, "In computer programming, green threads are threads that are scheduled by a virtual machine (VM) instead of natively by the underlying operating system." <-- yep true. It is just that the VM schedules them on several different underlying OS threads.
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22:38:48 <elliott> hmm, is log-structured storage just storing diffs instead of modifying the original data?
22:39:23 <ais523> elliott: "log-structured"?
22:39:55 <elliott> ais523: ok, I picked the wrong person to ping
22:41:14 <CakeProphet> ability to undo changes at the expense of more storage required and more expensive reads.
22:42:05 <elliott> CakeProphet: that does not answer my question, and I don't know of any self-branded log-structured storages that offer undos
22:42:13 <elliott> unless crash recovery counts, which isn't quite the same thing
22:42:44 <Vorpal> <elliott> hmm, is log-structured storage just storing diffs instead of modifying the original data? <-- I think it stores changes sectors (for log structured file systems at least) but don't quote me on that
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22:43:28 <Vorpal> elliott, and try nilfs2, it offers undo by mounting old versions of the file system.
22:43:44 <elliott> Vorpal: so instead of having 9 sectors on your disk, it has 9n, where n is the length of the log?
22:43:57 <elliott> to read, it reads the last log entry; to write, it appends the new data to the log, or overwrites the oldest entry if there's no space?
22:44:13 <CakeProphet> elliott: I'm thinking of versioning file systems, actually. like files-11
22:44:26 <Vorpal> elliott, uh. Well if you changed sector 4 then only that one would have to be stored again. Well block rather, they tend to be larger than disk sectors these days
22:44:34 <elliott> Vorpal: and then crash recovery is just reverting the most recent change (for fs-wide, not sector-wide values of "most recent"), until it's consistent?
22:44:48 <Vorpal> elliott, that I don't know.
22:44:51 <elliott> <Vorpal> elliott, uh. Well if you changed sector 4 then only that one would have to be stored again. Well block rather, they tend to be larger than disk sectors these days
22:44:55 <elliott> what did i say that contradicted this?
22:45:22 <Vorpal> elliott, well you said 9n, if you changed one of those sectors it wouldn't be 9*2 but more like 9+1
22:45:49 <Vorpal> elliott, anyway that is my understanding of them. But don't quote me on it
22:45:50 <elliott> it has 9n storage globally
22:45:55 <ais523> also, SCO have just lost their appeal against Novell, which will probably actually shut down the court cases
22:45:56 <elliott> because the disk has 9 sectors, and a log has a fixed length
22:45:58 -!- oerjan has joined.
22:46:00 <ais523> their only appeal left now is to the Supreme Court
22:46:05 <Vorpal> elliott, oh I meant for a file of 9 sectors
22:46:10 <ais523> any bets on whether they'll try it or not?
22:46:22 <elliott> Vorpal: you didn't say anything about files, you just talked about sectors; Btree stuff has sectors too, not just files
22:46:31 <Vorpal> ais523, no, I say it is 50/50 on that
22:46:43 <elliott> ais523: I'll bet 99 pounds they don't
22:46:49 <elliott> ais523: because the enjoyment of them doing so is worth 99 pounds to me
22:46:50 <Vorpal> elliott, I meant that it stores sectors you changed again, not diffs of them
22:46:55 <elliott> and the 99 pounds will help soften the blow if they don't
22:47:15 <Vorpal> elliott, but I only studied log structured file systems a tiny bit
22:47:16 <ais523> in future, lawyers should probably not agree to be paid in advance
22:47:21 <elliott> Vorpal: that's just a sector-based diff
22:47:26 <ais523> regardless of how many appeals
22:47:42 <elliott> ais523: I'd feel bad for them if they didn't deserve it
22:48:17 <Vorpal> elliott, I read somewhere that the problem of write leveling in SSDs is very similar to the problems encountered in implementing log structured filesystems.
22:49:04 <Vorpal> elliott, and that TRIM provides the SSD with the knowledge that space can be reused, which a file system has anyway. But a SSD can't know as easily.
22:49:39 <ais523> <Anonymous Coward> I expect it to go to the Supreme Court, and after that to various international courts. And maybe after that the interplanetary court.
22:50:26 <elliott> I just want to know what log-structured storage is exactly; my current perception is: Each file is not stored as its sectors directly, but a fixed-size buffer of (sectornum,data); writes are done by appending (overwrite oldest entry if no space), reads are done by picking the most recent change with the right sector number
22:50:56 <elliott> the question is, how do you use this for crash recovery? for each file, store a "latest consistent state" number, and only increase it on fsync() of a whole file change?
22:50:58 <Vorpal> elliott, check wikipedia?
22:51:03 <elliott> Vorpal: I did; it was unhelpful
22:51:15 <Vorpal> elliott, check how nilfs2 is implemented?
22:51:34 <elliott> why nilfs? you've mentioned it twice so far
22:51:38 <elliott> but it's the first I've heard of it
22:51:50 <elliott> hmm, or maybe I heard of it once before
22:52:02 <elliott> but anyway, that's stupid, I'm not going to dig around huge linux production code to find the definition of a simple conecpt
22:52:08 <Vorpal> elliott, because it is in the linux kernel, it is modern, and it is log structured, and it provides undo by snapshot mounting
22:52:42 <Vorpal> elliott, anyway I can't help you further I'm afraid. You reached the end of my knowledge on the subject
22:53:18 <elliott> I don't see why which kernel it is in matters if I'm not going to run it; and you expect me to understand a modern, complex filesystem without knowing the definition of its core concept?; so are other filesystems, presumably; k.
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22:53:51 <Vorpal> elliott, oh, I assumed you had the kernel source locally?
22:54:19 <Vorpal> oh right, you don't build your own kernels do you?
22:54:40 <elliott> Downloading a tarball is not a high barrier to entry. I think I have a Linux tarball around here somewhere, though.
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22:57:37 <ais523> I have the kernel source via the package manager
22:57:45 <ais523> there are kernel source packages that just unpack in /usr/src
22:57:55 <ais523> as build dependencies for kernel modules
22:58:13 <elliott> dear slicehost: stop emailing me about your upcoming death, I don't pay you anything or use your products
22:58:14 <ais523> (mostly they just need kernel headers, but full kernel source is needed sometimes)
22:58:15 <oerjan> <Deewiant> That's rude <-- well if i knew you were going to _speak_...
22:58:30 <ais523> elliott: has it been completely absorbed into Rackspace, now?
22:58:40 <elliott> oerjan: ooh, paste logs :P
22:59:03 <oerjan> 15:03:25 * oerjan now imagines logarithmic structure of diffs.
22:59:03 <oerjan> 15:03:32 <oerjan> argh
22:59:03 <oerjan> 15:04:39 <oerjan> just me and the finns
22:59:03 <oerjan> 15:05:15 --- quit: oerjan (Quit: leaving)
22:59:03 <oerjan> 15:06:13 <Deewiant> That's rude
22:59:04 <elliott> ais523: which is probably not entirely a bad thing, because their offerings have been ridiculously subpar for years now
22:59:17 <elliott> oh, http://www.slicehost.com/ no longer lists their servers, and is all about rackspace cloud servers
22:59:22 <ais523> ever since they were bought in the first place?
22:59:34 <elliott> ais523: nope, they just never changed their offerings for years
22:59:38 <elliott> ais523: and everyone else's got better
22:59:44 <CakeProphet> need to figure out what to do with these 1,500,000,000 bytes that I have
22:59:45 <oerjan> elliott: fortunately there were one logbot on each side of the split
22:59:45 <ais523> I suppose linode is the new equivalent to what slicehost used to be
23:00:02 <elliott> slicehost used to be the service that nobody knows about but everyone recommends because they're really cheap
23:00:04 <ais523> prgmr's a bit more bare-metal, according to articles I've been reading
23:00:15 <elliott> ais523: slicehost offers the exact same amount of access to your server, i.e. ssh
23:00:16 <Vorpal> <oerjan> <Deewiant> That's rude <-- well if i knew you were going to _speak_... <-- from where?
23:00:26 <elliott> the only extra thing they have is, umm, they also offer DNS, and let you reflash the server with a new OS
23:00:27 <oerjan> Vorpal: from the other side of the netsplit
23:00:27 <Vorpal> oh the other side of the split?
23:00:28 <ais523> whereas, say, linode actually have support, etc
23:00:39 <ais523> and prgmr aim for pure value
23:00:40 <elliott> ais523: prgmr have support too, it's just four dollars a month worth of it
23:00:56 <elliott> ais523: but, well, obviously prgmr isn't identical to slicehost, but I think linode is an inaccurate comparison, because linode have been around much longer
23:01:33 <ais523> I thought slicehost were the best-known
23:01:44 <ais523> perhaps I've just grown up around weird people
23:02:12 <Vorpal> elliott, was slicehost VPS only?
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23:02:34 <elliott> albeit, vps up to fifteen gigs of RAM
23:02:39 <Vorpal> elliott, that is why I never heard of it.
23:02:42 <elliott> slicehost added bigger and bigger plans rather than making their cheap ones better
23:02:44 <Vorpal> elliott, 15? why not 16?
23:03:37 <ais523> I don't think individual people, as opposed to businesses, use colo very often
23:03:54 <Vorpal> ais523, what about dedi then?
23:04:10 <ais523> even that's typically overkill
23:04:13 <ais523> although a little more reasonable
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23:04:43 <elliott> colo is pointless unless you're running an isp
23:04:48 <elliott> (in the internet service provider sense)
23:04:50 <Vorpal> ais523, and renting your own rack?
23:05:28 <elliott> oerjan: logarithmic trees of diffs sounds like a really nice thing for scapegoat, but I'm not sure what it means
23:05:31 <ais523> Vorpal: renting an entire rack would be massive overkill for anything but medium-to-large companies, and only then if they were in a business where it was a plausible thing to do
23:05:39 <Vorpal> ais523, I know someone who rents a rack though. He runs a VPS company.
23:05:50 <ais523> Vorpal: yes, that actually makes sense
23:06:11 <ais523> as renting out VPS is one of the situations where you need an otherwise implausibly large number of servers
23:07:37 <oerjan> elliott: basically you'd save diffs between revisions 0 and 1, 1 and 2, 0 and 2, 2 and 3, 3 and 4, 2 and 4, 0 and 4, so you can always change between any two revisions in logarithmic time of their distance. just something that popped into my mind from the word "log", for all i know everyone already does that.
23:08:22 <ais523> oerjan: a similar idea to a skiplist?
23:08:23 <oerjan> specifically, you have diffs between revisions k*2^n and (k +- 1)*2^n
23:08:50 <ais523> yay, it's in my compose
23:08:53 <elliott> 25403 root 20 0 253m 148m 78m R 34 4.0 39:38.80 Xorg
23:08:53 <ais523> I've wanted that key for ages
23:09:12 <oerjan> ais523: i don't recall what a skiplist is
23:09:30 <ais523> neither do I, exactly, but it's something like that
23:10:35 <Vorpal> oerjan, for a file system I think it would be acceptable to just store original file in full, the current file in full and diffs from 0-1,1-2,2-3 and so on. That optimizes for reading current version and writing new versions, while still keeping small space. Accessing older versions would probably not be as common as accessing the last one
23:11:15 <oerjan> Vorpal: well this idea was specifically to limit the time to go between arbitrary revisions
23:11:49 <elliott> oerjan: i will reply once i read your lines (this will be within a minuet or so), helpful messages from elliott
23:12:06 * oerjan imagines elliott dancing around his room
23:14:18 <ais523> "we are releasing new versions of Firefox for desktop (3.6.21, 6.0.1, 7, 8, and 9)"
23:14:24 <ais523> VERSION NUMBERS DO NOT WORK LIKE THAT
23:14:30 <oerjan> google keeps adding annoying features, it now gives a spelling warning for my already correctly spelled minuet
23:15:17 <oerjan> i suppose it's reasonable given why i googled it
23:15:42 <elliott> ais523: the traditional versioning system doesn't work very well, though
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23:17:18 <oerjan> ais523: i think you're supposed to add "GOODNIGHT."
23:17:55 <ais523> elliott: well that one makes even less sense
23:18:13 <CakeProphet> must be because my hard drive is encrypted?
23:18:29 <ais523> CakeProphet: or because you're doing something that isn't I/O-bound?
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23:18:38 <oerjan> no, it's because it's all being rerouted to the NSA
23:18:41 <elliott_> <elliott> 23:07:37: <oerjan> elliott: basically you'd save diffs between revisions 0 and 1, 1 and 2, 0 and 2, 2 and 3, 3 and 4, 2 and 4, 0 and 4, so you can always change between any two revisions in logarithmic time of their distance. just something that popped into my mind from the word "log", for all i know everyone already does that.
23:18:46 <elliott_> <elliott> ais523: sg could do that :)
23:18:49 <elliott_> <elliott> ais523: rather than storing full contents of files
23:18:55 <CakeProphet> ais523: I'm currently moving 77 GBs of music to a 1.5 TB external hard drive
23:19:07 <elliott_> CakeProphet: Encryption takes 0 CPU
23:19:17 <ais523> elliott_: perhaps plausible
23:19:25 <elliott_> ais523: Encryption/decryption is much less expensive than a disk operation
23:19:32 <elliott_> that's why HD encryption is irrelevant
23:19:32 <ais523> elliott_: depends on whether it's hardware encryption or not, I suppose
23:19:41 <elliott_> ais523: disks are /really really slow/
23:19:49 <ais523> and whether they encrypted the whole thing at once
23:19:56 <ais523> although that would be silly
23:20:04 <ais523> (I mean, needing to decrypt the whole disk just to access one file)
23:20:09 <elliott_> a CPU is twiddling its thumbs when the HD is being read, decrypting a few kilobytes won't stop that boredom
23:20:21 <ais523> isn't a CPU running other processes while waiting for the HD?
23:20:38 <elliott_> yes, but thread-switching happens anyway
23:20:39 <ais523> GPUs run other threads merely while waiting for memory accesses to happen
23:20:45 <elliott_> and encryption/decryption of a small amount of data is cheap
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23:21:24 <elliott_> ais523: anyway, I'm not so sure firefox's versioning system makes no sense
23:21:36 <elliott_> the people who get confused by it usually seem to be techies
23:21:46 <ais523> I just can't figure out why they have three different independent alphas
23:22:04 <elliott_> ais523: have you heard of branches?
23:22:06 <ais523> (presumably 7/8/9 are alpha because the version number stayed the same upon a change)
23:22:13 <ais523> elliott_: yes, but normally they're for different purposes than that
23:22:20 <elliott_> ais523: the work being done on 9 will presumably be about new faetures and things that can break a lot
23:22:25 <ais523> I can imagine two alphas because of feature freeze branch
23:22:28 <elliott_> whereas 7 will be bugfixes and modest improvements
23:22:32 <ais523> but not really more than that
23:22:32 <elliott_> and 8 will be somewhere in-between
23:22:51 <elliott_> ais523: firefox has always had separate branches for versions
23:22:54 <ais523> are changes being pulled from 7 into 8, and 8 into 9? then it makes a bit more sense
23:23:09 <ais523> branches for stable versions also makes sense, so you can backport security fixes, etc
23:23:19 <elliott_> ais523: well, the question is, have they ever been?
23:23:28 <elliott_> either way, this is no /less/ sane
23:23:42 <elliott_> ais523: I suspect they do merging nearer release time
23:23:49 <elliott_> but I'm not a Mozilla dev, so I don't know
23:25:38 <Vorpal> elliott_, hd encryption does slow down for other processes a bit. Since time spent decrypting could otherwise be used to compute stuff for other tasks. That is of course a rather specialised situation (will only matter when load without encryption would be close to 100% utilization).
23:25:49 <Vorpal> but in practise it doesn't make a difference
23:25:57 <Vorpal> I can say that from my own experience
23:26:12 <elliott_> Of course it takes CPU time, it just takes much less CPU time than just about everything else.
23:26:49 <Vorpal> elliott_, might be measurable for a really fast SSD though
23:27:02 <elliott_> SSDs are limited by things other than SSDs
23:27:25 <Vorpal> elliott_, that is 6 GB/s isn't it?
23:27:36 <elliott_> It's more about latency I think
23:27:52 <elliott_> But I do know that apparently plugging SSD chips directly into the CPU speeds things up a lot :P
23:29:20 <Vorpal> elliott_, anyway, latency won't be an issue if you want to read a huge file or write a huge file in a linear way. That situation would happen on suspend and resume for example
23:29:43 <elliott_> Sure it matters, unless the kernel just sends off the entire file and waits
23:29:52 <elliott_> I suspect it's done at the sector level or whatever
23:30:17 <CakeProphet> 40%, but I've got two cores so it counts to 200%
23:30:24 <Vorpal> elliott_, I thought ATA commands existed to write more than one sector at a time
23:30:33 <Vorpal> but maybe I'm confusing it with SAS or some such
23:30:43 <elliott_> Vorpal: Probably still limited, surely
23:30:54 <Vorpal> elliott_, anyway the SSD has a queue too. Native Command Queue
23:31:10 <Vorpal> elliott_, so you can send off 31 requests in one go
23:31:26 <elliott_> thirty one is less than like thousands
23:39:29 <elliott_> ais523: wow, pastebin.ca exists
23:39:37 <elliott_> it seems to lack formatting, though
23:39:52 <ais523> elliott_: pastebin.ca (specifically pastebin, not the other services) came back up a while ago
23:40:27 <ais523> I don't know, I wasn't looking
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23:56:30 <elliott_> hey copumpkin, why would a record with an existential be slower than a typeclass
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